Tuesday, 2015-01-20

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yushirofifieldt_, May I ask you a question about Operation-Guide?04:08
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JRobinson__yushiro, the irc channel #openstack-doc has more contributors who can help you, but what do you need?04:25
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yushiroJRobinson__, thank you. I'll attend this channel later.04:31
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anteaya#startmeeting third-party08:01
openstackMeeting started Tue Jan 20 08:01:01 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is anteaya. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.08:01
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.08:01
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: third-party)"08:01
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'third_party'08:01
anteayahello08:01
anteayaanyone here for the third-party meeting?08:01
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jyuso1anteaya: hi:)08:04
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anteayahello jyuso108:05
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anteayahow did you do creating a new CI account with launchpad?08:06
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jyuso1anteaya: not yet.we thought PCI CI just on-line for a week.so new account may be stuck CI for some time and I've not decided to create new account:)08:08
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anteayaokay that is fine08:09
anteayabut now you know the process in case you do want to change the email on your account08:09
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anteayahow is everything else with your system?08:09
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jyuso1anteaya: yes.few issues.Lots of issues caused by network:(08:10
jyuso1anteaya: like git fail,curl fail:(08:10
anteaya:(08:11
anteayathe network08:11
anteayais this due to the firewall you are behind?08:11
anteayaor firewalls?08:11
jyuso1anteaya: No.The bandwiths of our IP is not isolated.so sharing always make some problem.08:12
anteayaoh08:12
anteaya:(08:13
jyuso1anteaya: we are still try to get help from other department08:13
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anteayado you need to escalate the issue?08:13
anteayadoes adrian know you are having this problem?08:13
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jyuso1anteaya: yes.I think so.I think it will be solved soon.everyone is take care of us:)08:15
anteayaoh okay good08:15
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jyuso1anteaya: BTW,I still have a question to ask08:16
anteayaI'm not much help on internal issues, but don't continue to be stuck if you keep having this problem08:16
anteayajyuso1: go ahead08:16
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jyuso1anteaya: we use Gerrit trigger as project trigger.I notice that when a patchset 1 is coming to my trigger queue,then same patch be modified again,comes patchset 2.My CI would test twice.08:18
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anteayahmmmm08:19
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jyuso1anteaya: the other CI would just add patchset 2 and abandon patchset 1.Is there some settings of queue I've missed?08:20
anteayain our system if a new patchset is submitted, the new patchset is tested and the old patchset is no longer tested08:20
anteayathat might be something in zuul that removes the first patchset though08:20
anteayaI think it is probably a setting in zuul08:20
anteayajhesketh SergeyLukjanov do you happen to know the answer to jyuso1's question?08:21
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anteayajyuso1: I think it is a setting in zuul, so your set up wouldnt' have that feature08:22
jyuso1anteaya: OK..thanks.08:23
anteayaI am not sure how to create that feature with Jenkins and a Gerrit trigger08:23
jyuso1anteaya: yes,I don't find such option in Gerrit trigger08:23
anteayacan you manually stop a job if it is running and a new patchset comes in?08:23
nibalizeranteaya: im not sure thats an issue since the new patchset iwll fire a new job anyways right?08:24
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anteayanibalizer: the new patchset should fire its own job08:25
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anteayanibalizer: it can become an issue for systems where testing resources are scarce08:25
nibalizerya08:25
anteayathe concern about scarcity of testing resources is a common concern from third party operators08:26
jyuso1anteaya: I don't get it.I think I can manually stop a running job,is there any difference?08:26
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anteayawell if you can manually stop a running job, perhaps you can script something to recongize that two jobs are running and stop an earlier running job08:27
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anteayathis is one of the benefits of using open source software, you can (if you wish) modify your tools08:28
anteayaI have not heard this concern come up before from folks running jenkins with the gerrit trigger plugin08:28
anteayaso I don't know if anyone else has modified the tools to address this issue08:29
jyuso1anteaya: like this URL:https://review.openstack.org/#/c/145761/08:30
jyuso1anteaya: you can find our Intel PCI CI fail at patset 6 and 708:31
jyuso1anteaya: But before our result of patchset 6 return,the owner have submitted Patch Set 7.08:32
anteaya6 and 7 were uploaded 2 minutes apart from each other08:32
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anteayathe message from Intel PCI CI for both patchset 6 and 7 is build successful08:33
jyuso1anteaya: Yes.the interval time is short.But I think other CI system don't have a testing result for patchset 6.so I think may be they abandon patchest 6,when monitor patchset 7 coming....08:35
anteayawhere are the failures you are talking about? "anteaya: you can find our Intel PCI CI fail at patset 6 and 7"08:35
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anteayacorrect the other systems don't report back any findings on patchset 608:36
anteayais that what you mean by failure?08:36
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jyuso1anteaya: yes08:36
jyuso1tanteaya: that's it.08:37
anteayasince I see your test runs on both patchset 6 and 7 as building successfully08:37
anteayaokay well that is not a failure then08:37
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anteayathat is just an issue with your system, not a failure in the execution of the tests08:38
anteayaI don't know exactly which accounts use zuul and which don't08:39
anteayamy guess would be that the other accounts use zuul08:39
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jyuso1anteaya: OK,may be I could asked those owners of other CI.thanks:)08:40
anteayathat might be a good way forward08:40
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jyuso1anteaya: yes.08:41
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jyuso1anteaya: still thank you for your reply.I always ask lots of questions:)08:42
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anteayajyuso1: you do08:43
anteayaI appreciate them08:43
anteayait means you are working very hard on your system08:43
anteayayour logs are very nice, well formatted and informative08:44
anteayait means you care about providing good feedback to the developers08:44
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anteayaso your testing is useful08:44
anteayathat means a lot08:44
anteayathank you08:44
jyuso1anteaya: thanks.08:44
anteaya:D08:44
jyuso1anteaya: still lot of things to improve:)08:45
anteayajyuso1: it is a challenging area08:45
anteayaand there are many things changing all the time08:45
anteayaso it is a big job to stay current on the latest developments and impliment them08:45
anteayaand yes, there is lots of room for improvement08:46
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jyuso1anteaya: yes.08:49
jyuso1anteaya: I don't have more questions.08:49
jyuso1anteaya: thank you very much.08:49
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anteayajyuso1: thank you08:50
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anteaya:D08:50
anteayaI have another meeting right after this one08:50
anteayaso no harm keeping this meeting open until the top of the hour08:51
jyuso1anteaya: Oh...you are the best.If I were you,I should go to bed few hours ago:)))08:52
anteayathanks08:52
anteayano matter where I am in the world I see to get up in the middle of the night08:53
anteayait is okay, folks at the keystone mid-cycle know not to expect me first thing in the morning08:53
anteayas/see/seem08:53
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jyuso1anteaya: sorry,need to leave my seat now.see you next week.Thank you:)08:58
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anteayajyuso1: see you next week08:59
anteaya#endmeeting08:59
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"08:59
openstackMeeting ended Tue Jan 20 08:59:54 2015 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)08:59
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/third_party/2015/third_party.2015-01-20-08.01.html08:59
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/third_party/2015/third_party.2015-01-20-08.01.txt08:59
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/third_party/2015/third_party.2015-01-20-08.01.log.html09:00
anteaya#startmeeting nova-net-to-neutron-migration09:00
openstackMeeting started Tue Jan 20 09:00:12 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is anteaya. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.09:00
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.09:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: nova-net-to-neutron-migration)"09:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'nova_net_to_neutron_migration'09:00
anteayahello09:00
jlibosvahi09:00
anteayawho is here?09:00
belmoreirahi09:00
obondarevgood evening/morning everybody :)09:00
anteayahello jlibosva belmoreira and obondarev09:00
anteaya:D09:00
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anteayagus: are you about?09:00
gushi09:00
anteayathere you are09:00
gusyep. hotel wifi appears to be working :)09:01
anteayamarkmcclain is/was flying so won't be able to join us09:01
anteayagus: yay09:01
anteayaokay let's get started09:01
anteayahere is our agenda09:02
anteaya#link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/Nova-nettoNeutronMigration09:02
anteaya#topic the state of the Neutron spec (obondarev)09:02
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*** openstack changes topic to "the state of the Neutron spec (obondarev) (Meeting topic: nova-net-to-neutron-migration)"09:02
anteayaobondarev: you're up09:02
obondarevyep09:02
anteayahow are we doing on the specs09:02
obondarevso this week we had a progress on the specs09:02
anteayayay!09:02
obondarevthanks to gus who uploaded new revisions representing the result of discussions at lca09:02
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anteayathanks gus09:03
obondarevso we now have two specs in neutron09:03
obondarevhttps://review.openstack.org/#/c/147723/09:03
obondarevhttps://review.openstack.org/#/c/142456/09:03
anteaya#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/147723/09:03
anteaya#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/142456/09:03
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obondarevthe first one basically sets expectations for the proposed way to migrate OpenStack deployments from nova-network to neutron09:03
obondarevit describes the end-user/deployer impact, starting/end points of it09:04
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anteayathis was something jogo really wanted09:04
belmoreiraI add some comments to understand to migration when using cells09:04
obondarevthe second is a follow-up which adds the description/steps of the overall proposed process09:04
anteayabelmoreira: great thank you09:04
obondarevand major work items required09:04
anteayawonderful09:04
anteayathanks for that summary obondarev09:04
gusthey're two changes building on the same spec doc.  so we'll have one spec file when they're both submitted.09:04
obondarevyesterday I updated the specs, addressing more comments and adding some details09:04
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anteayaobondarev: great, thank you09:04
obondarevcurrently we have +2 from markmcclain on both of them09:04
obondarevhowever still need reviews from nova folks09:05
anteayathat is a good sign09:05
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anteayaobondarev: yes09:05
anteayalet's take a look at the first one, 14772309:05
anteayabelmoreira: have you had a chance to take a look at 147723 yet?09:06
belmoreirayes, I look into it09:06
anteayagus: and how are you feeling about obondarev's latest patchset to that chanage09:06
anteayabelmoreira: any comments for 147723?09:06
belmoreiraand then I got confused where to put my comments...09:07
anteayaah okay09:07
anteayabelmoreira: are you still confused?09:07
belmoreirathe comments that I have for 147723 are the same that I put in 14245609:07
gusanteaya: the latest revision looks just fine to me - I was just now rolling it into my local git tree..09:07
anteayagus: great09:07
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anteayabelmoreira: are you able to vote on 147723 separately from 142456?09:08
gusbelmoreira: this is re cells?09:08
gusbelmoreira: you're right that we should state something regarding cells in 147723.09:09
belmoreiragus: yes, I think the specs should consider the cells use case09:09
obondarevso as per markmcclain reply we're not going to support cells/multihost cases in the first iteration09:09
belmoreiraanteaya: yes09:10
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gusThe discussion we had at LCA was (iirc): we believe this approach should work with cells (by rolling across all machines one-by-one, not necessarily cell-by-cell).09:10
obondarevtrying to keep sings simple initially09:10
gus.. but the intention was to get non-cell case working first.09:10
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belmoreiragus: I imagine that the migration will affect mostly large deployments09:11
belmoreiragus: and those are using cells09:11
obondarevultimately we should support cells migration for sure09:11
gusif it is important to be able to completely upgrade a cell before moving on to the rest (ie: use neutron l3 nodes, and make neutron api read-write) then that will be difficult..09:11
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gusbelmoreira: agreed re importance of cell use-case.09:12
belmoreiragus: also, I think that cells are great to isolate possible problems and do a step by step migration09:12
gusmy hesitation is how you would make neutron API available to users cell-by-cell.09:13
obondarevneutron doesn't support cells at the moment..09:13
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gusright.  so given that neutron isn't sliced up into cells, I think host-by-host is the only gradual rollout we have available.09:15
obondarevI think we can still continue to discuss cells in gerrit, with more people than we have at the meeting now09:15
anteayabelmoreira: we are trying to come up with a solution you can support, I fear that we might go down into a rabbit hole if we get blocked on cells09:15
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anteayabelmoreira: what parts of the offered specs are you able to support?09:16
gusbelmoreira: you could certainly migrate all the hypervisors in one cell before moving on to the next, for example.09:17
belmoreiraduring the migration I'm looking into the simple use case of creating/delete a VM09:17
belmoreiraI don't expect to have a full set neutron API available to users...09:17
gusyep, that should continue to work just fine during the migration.09:17
gus(except for the brief moment where the database is dumped/migrated at the start)09:18
obondarevneutron API will be read-only during the migration09:18
belmoreiraIt would be acceptable to not allow floating IPs/security groups, ... during the migration09:18
gusurgh, async replies.  Yes: create/delete VMs should continue to work (except for the brief read-only period at start).  neutron API will not be available (read-write) until the entire thing is complete.09:19
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belmoreirathat's way I think the cell use case can be archievable if we have some restrictions about what is offered to users during the migration09:19
obondarevbut floating ips and sec groups will still be accessible for crreate/get/update/delete through nova api09:20
obondarevso should be transparent to the users09:20
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belmoreiraif a deployment is using cells security groups are not supported anyway09:21
belmoreirafloating IPs we don't use them... not sure if they are available with cells.09:21
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gusso I'll add a statement to 147723 describing cells impact (nova-api should basically keep working, you can choose whatever order of hypervisors to upgrade, neutron won't be available until the last hypervisor is done)09:23
gusthe catch will be testing, and whether we want to deal with cells in this spec, or stick to the easy case here and punt to a followup.09:23
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gus.. punt cells upgrades to a followup spec.09:24
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belmoreiragus: sorry, also considering cells...09:25
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belmoreiragus: using cells we have a db per cell, where the nova-network info is stored.09:26
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gusyep. so these will need to be dumped/restored together.  ie: nova-api will be read-only for every cell until that is complete.09:26
obondarevgus: you mean neutron api, no?09:27
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gusso step 1 is getting a description of the nova-network setup into neutron equivalents, so neutron DB becomes the single source of truth.09:28
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gusthe way we've described this so far involves making the nova-api read-only, using a DB migration tool to dump/restore the nova-network db into neutron db, enabling a nova-network-proxy that looks the same to nova (python) but reads from neutron DB, and then making the nova-api read-write again.09:29
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gusI think this will need to be performed for all cells simultaneously given that neutron is cells-ignorant.09:30
gusI see this is turning into a complex discussion that we should move to elsewhere.09:31
obondarevprobably this can be done cell by cell in a way where nova uses proxy for cells whose data is transitioned to neutron09:31
belmoreiragus: the proxy works for nova-network calls? (when requesting an IP for a VM)09:32
obondarevgus: +109:32
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belmoreiraobondarev: that would be great09:32
gusbelmoreira: yes, that's basically its entire job.  Be a drop-in python replacement for nova-network, but do it by talking to neutron.09:33
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obondarevbelmoreira: just thinking aloud, I don't know nova cells well enough09:34
gusbelmoreira/obondarev: ok, so do we want to have a separate chat to work out cells issues, or do we feel we can do it via gerrit review, (or is it sufficiently complex that we should move it into its own spec).09:34
gus?09:34
belmoreiragus: in that case as obondarev mentioned, if we move only a specific DB and enable the proxy per cell the migration should be possible09:35
obondarevso still thinking we should do it for simple case first, test it and them move to more complex cases09:35
anteayabelmoreira: are you able to support any part of the offered specs?09:35
obondareveven if the first version will not be applicable for real-world deployments09:36
belmoreiragus: I think it will be better to have this discussion on IRC at least to understand the implications.09:36
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belmoreiragus: then we can iterate on gerrit09:37
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gusbelmoreira: ack.  I need to do some further research on how cells/nova-network works too ..09:38
belmoreiraanteya: The spec is great for small deployments. Having a large deployment I would prefer to stage the migration. In this case using cells.09:39
anteayabelmoreira: as of the latest discussions about the spec, cells were considered out of scope09:40
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anteayabelmoreira: part of the consideration for hinging your support for the process on cells maybe loss of support from the community09:40
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anteayaand a possible derailment of this effort09:41
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anteayaI would like to see if we can agree to any part of what has been offered as in scope right now09:41
anteayaso we can at least move forward in some part09:41
belmoreiraanteaya: fair enough...09:42
anteayathanks for understanding09:42
anteayait is possible that if we can make some progress in this direction, however small09:42
anteayawe may build community support09:42
anteayaif the feel their efforts are valued and convey results09:42
obondarevI'll look into nova cells as well to see if there is something in the proposed plan that will cause problems for supporting cells in next iterations09:43
anteayaobondarev: thank you09:43
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anteayayes, I think further research is warrented09:43
belmoreiraobondarev: thanks09:43
anteayabut I would like to see if we can get some consencous at least on https://review.openstack.org/#/c/147723/309:43
anteayaso for 14772309:44
anteayado those present feel they can comment/vote/support this patch?09:45
belmoreiraanteaya: sure09:45
jlibosvawill do09:46
anteayabelmoreira: thank you, I appreciate that09:46
anteayajlibosva: thank you09:46
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anteayaso I will communicate with nova and get some reviews from them09:46
anteayaand hopefully we can get this patch moving forward09:46
anteayalet's agree to discuss cells again next week after further research from/by obondarev and gus09:47
obondarevagreed09:47
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gusack09:47
anteayaand continue to work on https://review.openstack.org/#/c/142456/ this week and see where we are next meeting09:47
belmoreirathanks for the effort09:47
anteayafair?09:47
anteayabelmoreira: great thank you09:47
obondarev+109:47
anteayawonderful09:48
anteayacan we move onto the next agenda topic?09:48
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anteayamoving on09:48
anteaya#topic  the state of implementation (obondarev)09:48
*** openstack changes topic to "the state of implementation (obondarev) (Meeting topic: nova-net-to-neutron-migration)"09:48
obondarevso09:48
anteayaobondarev: you again :D09:48
obondarevspeaking of implementation09:48
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obondarevI haven't put my wip prototype on gerrit mostly because it is a neutron proxy plugin to nova09:48
obondarevwhile new plan discussed and reflected in specs is to have a nova proxy to neutron09:49
obondarevthe reasoning for that is described in the second spec09:49
obondarevI'm going to start working on it shortly09:49
obondarevtogether with exploring nova cells09:49
anteayathank you09:49
obondarevjlibosva has uploaded a WIP on data migration from nova to neutron db09:49
jlibosvaobondarev: does it mean your current code will be thrown away?09:50
obondarevjlibosva: I guess so, I'm not sure how to apply it with the current plan09:50
anteayaobondarev: you could offer up the patch to gerrit and let folks look at it09:50
anteayamark it wip09:50
anteayashame to waste an effort09:51
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obondarevwell, I can but it may cause confusion09:51
anteayathat is a good point09:51
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anteayayou are right, let's proceed in the new direction09:51
jlibosvayou can write it to commit message that it goes with proposal out of date09:51
anteayabut I do want to acknowledge your work here obondarev even if noone ever sees it09:52
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obondarevanteaya: thanks you :)09:52
anteaya:)09:52
gusindeed :)09:52
anteayaso jlibosva has a patch up09:52
obondarevso returning to db migration by jlibosva09:52
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obondarev#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/148260/09:53
obondarevwhich is now the first step in the proposed plan09:53
obondarevthanks jlibosva09:53
jlibosvathat means I should hurry up, I was living in the fact I still have time as I thought it'll be actually the last one09:53
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anteayajlibosva: ah09:53
anteayajlibosva: it looks like you have some reviews on that, thanks obondarev09:54
obondarevok, we still need to agree the whole design09:54
anteayaobondarev: we meaning who?09:54
obondarevand to merge the specs09:54
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anteayameaning the design in the specs, yes?09:54
obondarevwe - the community09:54
obondarevright09:54
anteayaokay great09:55
anteayajlibosva: do you have what you need to continue working on your patch?09:55
obondarevbut db migration is something that is required anyway I guess09:55
jlibosvaanteaya: yes, I have some gaps in my knowledge but nothing crucial09:55
anteayajlibosva: great, let's see where you get to by next week and do speak up if you get blocked09:55
anteayaobondarev: yes09:56
jlibosvasure09:56
anteayathanks09:56
anteayaand you will be offering a patch for the proxy sometime, obondarev?09:56
obondarevyes09:56
anteayagreat09:56
anteayathank you09:56
anteayaanything more under implementation?09:56
obondarevnot from my side09:57
anteayawonderful, moving on09:57
anteaya#topic documentation (obondarev)09:57
*** openstack changes topic to "documentation (obondarev) (Meeting topic: nova-net-to-neutron-migration)"09:57
obondarevwe have good news on the docs side as well09:57
anteayayay09:57
obondarevI talked to emagana and he agreed to help with docs for the migration09:57
anteayawonderful, thank you09:57
obondarevI've added him to the specs reviews so he's aware of the proposed plan09:57
anteayaobondarev: perfect09:57
anteayaobondarev: did you get a chance to chat with annegentle as well?09:57
obondarevno, I didn't09:58
anteayawould like to take her up on her offer09:58
anteayaokay I will find her this week09:58
anteayawe can't have too much help with docs09:58
obondarevanteaya: thank you09:58
obondarevanteaya: agree09:58
anteaya#action anteaya to chat with annegentle about offer of docs help09:58
anteaya#topic testing (belmoreira)09:58
*** openstack changes topic to "testing (belmoreira) (Meeting topic: nova-net-to-neutron-migration)"09:59
anteayabelmoreira: I assigned the testing topic to you09:59
anteayabelmoreira: I hope that is okay with you09:59
anteayabelmoreira: any thoughts here this week?09:59
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belmoreiraanteaya: :) well, I give my comments how I would like to test the migration10:00
anteayabelmoreira: that helps, thank you :D10:00
anteayaand we are at time10:00
obondarevthanks everybody10:00
jlibosvathanks10:00
gusI can have a go at grenade, etc work too.10:00
anteayathank you all for your attendance and support10:00
belmoreirathanks10:00
anteayagus: awesome thank you10:00
gusI feel we're mostly constrained by what our (current) testing frameworks are capable of.10:00
anteayasee you all next week10:00
gusthanks all.10:01
anteayagus: yes10:01
anteaya#endmeeting10:01
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"10:01
openstackMeeting ended Tue Jan 20 10:01:09 2015 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)10:01
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openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova_net_to_neutron_migration/2015/nova_net_to_neutron_migration.2015-01-20-09.00.txt10:01
jlibosvabye10:01
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova_net_to_neutron_migration/2015/nova_net_to_neutron_migration.2015-01-20-09.00.log.html10:01
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lxslio/14:55
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bauzasaloha ?15:00
alex_xu?15:00
bauzasn0ano: tic tac toc15:00
n0ano#startmeeting gantt15:00
openstackMeeting started Tue Jan 20 15:00:52 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is n0ano. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.15:00
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.15:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: gantt)"15:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'gantt'15:00
bauzas\o15:01
alex_xuo/15:01
edleafeo/15:01
lxsli\o15:01
n0anodrift off for 30 seconds and people slap you :-)15:01
n0anosorry for the delay, anyway...15:01
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edleafen0ano: we'll let it slide this one time...15:01
bauzaseh eh15:01
edleafe;-)15:01
n0ano#topic Remove direct nova DB/API access by Scheduler Filters - https://review.opernstack.org/138444/15:01
*** openstack changes topic to "Remove direct nova DB/API access by Scheduler Filters - https://review.opernstack.org/138444/ (Meeting topic: gantt)"15:01
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n0anoedleafe, but not next time15:02
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n0anowe talked on email and bauzas tried to explain, are you two still far apart?15:02
edleafeok, so here's the basic issue15:02
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edleafethere are two ways to get the instance info to the scheduler15:02
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bauzasedleafe: please explain those 2 things15:03
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edleafeone is to enhance the current _get_all_host_states() so that each host includes instance info15:03
bauzaslet's call it option #215:03
bauzasoops15:03
bauzasoption #115:03
edleafethe other is to have hosts report changes in instance info to scheduler, which would maintain that in-memory15:03
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bauzaslet's call it option #215:03
edleafebauzas: ok, these are options 1 & 215:03
edleafeoption 2 is more disruptive15:04
edleafewould require changing code in more places15:04
bauzasok, about #2, you mean that hosts will report all the instances for each 60 secs ?15:04
edleafebut would be closer to the eventual model that we want15:04
edleafethis was jaypipes's concern15:04
edleafeand his main reason for favoring the approach15:04
alex_xuedleafe: option2, report changes to scheduler, means write the instance info to compute node table?15:04
bauzasdammit, jaypipes is not yet there !15:04
edleafebauzas: they would report when a change occurs15:05
edleafecreate/destroy/resize15:05
bauzasseriously, Jay, if you're reading us, please come in, because we already discussed about this BP last week without you15:05
bauzasedleafe: using RPC API call ?15:05
edleafebauzas: yes15:05
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bauzasedleafe: isn't what I said OK last week ?15:06
edleafein opt#2, the scheduler would get the info when it starts up, and the hosts would update when they change15:06
bauzasoption #2 is for having pending instances provided to the scheduler15:06
bauzasedleafe: right, but do you understand that there is no persistence in the scheduler now ?15:07
n0anoedleafe, my only concern with #2 is how to get initial state, does the scheduler have to query every host in the system?15:07
* bauzas would like to be fluent in English...15:07
n0anon0ano, would like to be fluent in French :-)15:07
edleafebauzas: well, isn't that what would happen? If a host gets an instance request (pending), it would report it to the scheduler *before* it starts building it15:07
bauzasbecause it sounds I have some problems explaining why I think you missed something15:08
edleafebauzas: if that fails, then it would report that, too.15:08
edleafebauzas: ok, please explain15:08
bauzasedleafe: I said I was OK with that approach for pending instances15:08
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bauzasedleafe: but as HostState is not persisted in between each request, it needs to call all instances for each host15:09
bauzasedleafe: req1 comes in, calls _get_all_host_states(), instantiate the list of HostState15:09
bauzasedleafe: req2 comes in, calls _get_all_host_states(), instantiate the list of HostState15:10
n0anobauzas, isn't edleafe basically saying we would change HostState to `be` persistent in the scheduler15:10
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edleafen0ano: well, that's the end goal15:10
bauzasn0ano: it was not explicitely said15:10
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edleafewe shouldn't really have to make that call every time15:10
bauzasn0ano: but I answered on that approach in my email by saying "+1000 but not now"15:10
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bauzaswell, tbp, I said "+1000 but not *in that spec*"15:11
edleafen0ano: with opt#2, getting there would be half-complete15:11
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edleafen0ano: with opt#1, we'd still be where we are now15:11
bauzasedleafe: why ?15:11
alex_xuI'm understand why persisted will resolve the race problem. Persisted means we need lock for scheduler to read HostState?15:11
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alex_xus/I'm understand/I'm not understand...15:11
bauzasalex_xu: the main problem is that if we persist HostState, we need to carefully think about all the problems around it15:12
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edleafebauzas: because with opt#1, we're still calling _get_all_host_states() with each request15:12
n0anoalex_xu, shouldn't need a lock, sheduler owns the persisted HostState, no contention on it15:12
bauzasedleafe: right, and what is the scope of this BP ?15:12
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bauzasedleafe: are you planning to solve all scheduler problems in that spec or are you focusing to not call DB in the filters but rather elsewhere ?.15:12
edleafebauzas: so with opt#2, we still do that, but make a small step to scheduler maintaining info in-memory instead of always calling15:13
bauzasedleafe: again, that's not the scope of this spec15:13
edleafebauzas: getting the full host state in memory would be an L project15:13
bauzasedleafe: if that spec is requiring a persistent approach, then let's write a spec for persisting HostState and depend your spec on that one15:13
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edleafebauzas: that would be fine, but I thought we agreed that that would come in L, not kilo15:14
bauzasedleafe: but I'm sorry, opt#2 was not explicitely saying this approach15:14
bauzasedleafe: exactly, here is the point15:15
edleafejaypipes thought that this would lay the groundwork15:15
bauzashonestly, do we need to meet together all if jay is not here again ?15:15
edleafeIOW, if we know we want to end up in one place, why add code that uses the approach we want to leave?15:15
bauzasI don't want to spend too much on my time agreeing on something that jay could -1 it15:15
edleafebauzas: yeah, jay not being here sucks15:16
edleafeI mean, he's the sub-PTL for scheduler15:16
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bauzasedleafe: so I ask to postpone that discussion until jay's back15:16
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n0anohe's not online so we have to try to do what we can15:16
edleafebauzas: ok15:16
bauzasbecause I will have to explain again why I disagree etc.15:16
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edleafen0ano: so do wwe need to set up another hangout or irc discussion>15:17
n0anoif we postpone what are the odds we'll be done by the spec exception deadline15:17
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edleafen0ano: we shouldn't wait until next week, since it'll be the mid-cycle15:17
n0anoedleafe, I'd prefer IRC, I have to say the hangout didn't work that well15:17
bauzasedleafe: sub-PTL doesn't necessarely mean that a people would be a tech lead15:17
edleafen0ano: agreed15:17
bauzasIRC can do the job15:17
edleafebauzas: true, but he should be keeping everything on track15:18
bauzasright, hence my ask to postpone15:18
bauzasbecause we need his advice15:18
edleafebauzas: yes15:18
n0anolet's keep an eye out for him on IRC and see if we can setup an ad-hoc channel15:18
n0anobauzas, when will you be quitting for the day?15:18
bauzasplease all keep in mind we're a distributed team with chinese and EU people15:19
bauzasI'm here for around 2 hours left15:19
bauzasand then, possibly here15:19
edleafe#action Track down jaypipes and set up an IRC discussion with bauzas, edleafe, n0ano, and anyone else interested15:19
bauzasprovided that doesn't conflict with personal concersn15:19
bauzasn0ano: could you take the action ?15:20
n0anoedleafe, I'm good almost any time15:20
bauzasedleafe: you can't add actions, you're not chairing the meeting15:20
edleafemaybe set it up for early tomorrow morning in the US?15:20
edleafebauzas: ah15:20
alex_xuit hard to catch Jay, so don't think about me, I can check the log15:20
n0anobauzas, yes, I'll look for jay and try and setup something soon15:20
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n0ano#action n0ano to setup ad-hoc IRC when all available15:20
* n0ano action doesn't work for me either, go figure15:21
edleafetime to move on?15:21
n0anoanyway, let's postpone this for now, moving on15:21
n0ano#topic items for mid-cycle15:21
*** openstack changes topic to "items for mid-cycle (Meeting topic: gantt)"15:21
bauzasI made a few notes on the etherpad15:22
n0anohave we thought of things we want to raise at the mid-cycle, noting this will be stuff we will be targeting for L15:22
edleafelink for the etherpad?15:22
bauzashttps://etherpad.openstack.org/p/kilo-nova-midcycle15:22
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* edleafe seems to have misplaced it15:22
edleafethx15:22
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edleafen0ano: I added an item about discussing the interface questions15:23
n0anowe should all think about some specifics for `next step', that's what I want but it's a little open15:23
n0anoedleafe, that's good15:23
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bauzasedleafe: well, I was retaining the "next step" approach15:24
edleafeI think it would be helpful to get a clearer picture of where we want to end up after the split15:24
bauzasnext step being Lxxx :)15:24
bauzashope it will be Liberty :)15:24
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edleafebauzas: next steps are good too, but I was thinking about clarifying where we want to be after the next 10 steps :)15:25
bauzasedleafe: I'm fine with you, anyway that's midcycle15:25
bauzasthat's also something we can tackle during midcycle15:27
n0anoalthough thinking about it, general terms for the schedule are good, we should talk about specifics at the meetup15:28
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bauzasagreed15:28
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n0ano#action all to update the mid-cycle meetup etherpad with `general` ideas15:29
bauzassounds good15:30
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bauzasare we done ?15:30
n0anoalmost15:30
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n0ano#topic opens15:30
*** openstack changes topic to "opens (Meeting topic: gantt)"15:30
bauzasoops :)15:30
n0anoanything new from anyone today?15:30
bauzascoding, coding, coding, fixing, releasing, coding, coding15:31
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n0anoreviewing, reviewing, ...15:31
edleafereviewing, reviewing...15:31
edleafe:)15:31
n0anoOK, winding down, I'll tnx everyone and we will be on IRC again - soon15:31
n0ano#endmeeting15:31
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"15:31
alex_xureread irc log, reread irc log...15:31
bauzasmy review ratio is at the lowest these days :(15:31
openstackMeeting ended Tue Jan 20 15:31:53 2015 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)15:31
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/gantt/2015/gantt.2015-01-20-15.00.html15:31
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/gantt/2015/gantt.2015-01-20-15.00.txt15:31
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/gantt/2015/gantt.2015-01-20-15.00.log.html15:31
edleafebauzas: heh, I guess the actions *did* work15:32
bauzasedleafe: interesting15:32
bauzasedleafe: sounds like a bugfix or a new feature15:33
bauzasedleafe: because I'm 100% sure that it was not the case previously :)15:33
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bauzasso, back to fixing the detach-service bp, wooo !15:33
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edleafebauzas: have fun!!15:36
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primeministerp#startmeeting hyper-v16:00
openstackMeeting started Tue Jan 20 16:00:31 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is primeministerp. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.16:00
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.16:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: hyper-v)"16:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'hyper_v'16:00
primeministerphey guys16:00
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primeministerpociuhandu_: morning16:00
alexpilottihey there16:00
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primeministerpalexpilotti: morning16:01
primeministerpalexpilotti: general status first?16:01
alexpilottisure16:01
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primeministerp#topic status update16:02
*** openstack changes topic to "status update (Meeting topic: hyper-v)"16:02
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alexpilottiso, we are mostly waiting for reviews16:02
primeministerpyou read my mind16:02
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ociuhandumorning all16:02
primeministerphey tavi16:02
alexpilottithe status basically didnt change much sicne K116:02
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alexpilottilots of BPs waiting reviews :-)16:03
alexpilottiwe had a couple of +2s lately16:03
primeministerpok16:03
alexpilottion the Nova rescue BP patch and on the Nova Gen 2 VM ones16:03
alexpilottiall the rest is basically just waiting16:03
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alexpilottiI hope something is going to change before K-3...16:04
primeministerpand any bugs waiting as well?16:04
alexpilottiyes, bugs are in teh same status16:04
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primeministerpawesome16:04
alexpilottiluckily we dont have many16:04
alexpilottithe codebase is working very well16:05
alexpilottibut still we will get into rebase problems soon16:05
primeministerpand that's a huge time eater too16:05
alexpilottialso two BPs depend on the Gen 2 one16:05
primeministerpso those +2s you mentioned i'm assuming it was the first?16:06
alexpilottiso until that one is merged, we wont be able to get many reviews on the dependencies16:06
alexpilottiyes16:06
alexpilottithere’s a hop that Gen 2 will merge today as we had another +2 previously, that got lost with the rebases16:07
primeministerpok16:07
alexpilottiwe’re developing other stuff ATM16:07
alexpilotticeilometer extensions for example16:07
primeministerpfair enough16:08
alexpilottior refactoring the unit tests16:08
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alexpilottior additional Windows specific integration, like testing now Azure Bus with oslo.messaging16:08
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primeministerpalexpilotti: thanks16:09
alexpilottinp!16:10
primeministerpalexpilotti: until we have more ci infra ready to run I really don't have much to add16:10
primeministerpwe'll end on that for now16:10
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primeministerpalexpilotti: thx16:10
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luis_fdezhappy new year ! :)16:10
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primeministerp#endmeeting16:10
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"16:11
openstackMeeting ended Tue Jan 20 16:10:59 2015 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)16:11
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/hyper_v/2015/hyper_v.2015-01-20-16.00.html16:11
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/hyper_v/2015/hyper_v.2015-01-20-16.00.txt16:11
alexpilottiluis_fdez: hi there :)16:11
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/hyper_v/2015/hyper_v.2015-01-20-16.00.log.html16:11
luis_fdezhi alexpilotti16:11
luis_fdezhehe16:11
primeministerpluis_fdez: happy new year!16:12
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luis_fdezthx primeministerp ;-)16:12
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boris-42rvasilets: msdubov_ andreykurilin_ ping17:02
rvasiletsHi17:02
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boris-42rally team is sleeping17:03
boris-42seems like we should move a bit meeting time17:03
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msdubov_boris-42:hi!17:03
boris-42amaretskiy: ping17:03
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boris-42heh17:06
amaretskiypong17:06
boris-42#startmeeting rally17:06
openstackMeeting started Tue Jan 20 17:06:30 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is boris-42. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.17:06
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.17:06
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: rally)"17:06
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'rally'17:06
boris-42#topic VMTask benchmark updates and future steps17:06
*** openstack changes topic to "VMTask benchmark updates and future steps (Meeting topic: rally)"17:06
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boris-42amaretskiy: could you please provide infomration related to this topic17:07
boris-42waht we did what w are going to do17:07
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amaretskiyhere is a patch that was recently merged: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/144337/17:07
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amaretskiythere are a lot of improvements for scenario VMTasks.boot_runcommand_delete17:07
amaretskiyfirst main improvement is neutron support17:08
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amaretskiysecond one in simple network configuration17:08
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amaretskiyconfiguration was a head ache before17:09
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amaretskiyso some configuration parameters were removed, other were auto-configured17:09
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amaretskiyso if we use network context (which support was also added with this patch), we can leave all parameters blank - the networking configuration will be auto-complete17:10
amaretskiyeom17:10
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amaretskiyabout future steps17:11
amaretskiynow i'm going to switch to another part of rally - my next aim is html report17:12
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amaretskiythere are a lot of fixes/features planned for the report17:12
amaretskiyeom17:12
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boris-42amaretskiy: so what kinds of bugs?17:13
boris-42amaretskiy: and improvements would you like to make17:13
boris-42could you be more verbose please17:13
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boris-42amaretskiy: so?17:16
amaretskiy* failures aggregation (do not repeat similar errors)17:17
amaretskiy* fix css/html layout for charts if there are a lot of parameters (especially for pie chart)17:17
amaretskiy* show broken iterations with red stripes on stacked chart17:17
amaretskiy* add pretty tooltips17:17
amaretskiy* fix: add scroll bar for input task json (if too wide)17:17
amaretskiy* add cluster information17:17
amaretskiy* reimplement templates with jinja217:17
amaretskiy* etc...17:17
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boris-42amaretskiy: reimplemnt templates with jinja2 ???17:17
boris-42what17:17
boris-42?17:18
amaretskiyreplace mako with jinja217:18
boris-42amaretskiy: ahh17:18
amaretskiyand get rid of mako17:18
boris-42amaretskiy: yep that is good one17:18
boris-42amaretskiy: mako sux17:18
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amaretskiyyes :)17:18
boris-42it was my bad to use it..17:18
amaretskiyreimplementation will not take a lot of time17:18
boris-42amaretskiy: yep they are quite close to each otehr17:19
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boris-42amaretskiy: just mako sux=)17:19
amaretskiy:)17:19
boris-42amaretskiy: so about tooltip17:19
boris-42amaretskiy: wanna discuss?17:19
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amaretskiyi'm going to show hints with pretty js tooltips17:19
boris-42amaretskiy: yep so we can just put basic infomration17:20
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amaretskiybut do not move charts/tables data into tooltips17:20
boris-42what means iteration what is measured17:20
boris-42amaretskiy: nonon17:20
boris-42amaretskiy: just put extra info17:20
boris-42amaretskiy: about what is on graphs17:20
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boris-42amaretskiy: cause not all users can understand when they see them first time17:20
amaretskiyimportant note: tooltips implementation for charts is limited17:21
amaretskiyi mean tooltips that appear when we put cursor over the chart17:21
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amaretskiyfor other html objects - no problem17:21
boris-42amaretskiy: no17:21
boris-42amaretskiy: don't do that17:21
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boris-42amaretskiy: just put on top of charts on right17:22
boris-42amaretskiy: some div with [?]17:22
boris-42and if user moves over it it shows tooltip with explanation17:22
amaretskiyok, that is absolutely not a problem :)17:22
amaretskiytooltips will b every nice :)17:22
boris-42amaretskiy: that will be great improvment (even if it simple)17:22
amaretskiyokay :)17:22
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boris-42okay let's move on other things17:23
boris-42#topic documentation refactoring17:23
*** openstack changes topic to "documentation refactoring (Meeting topic: rally)"17:23
boris-42msdubov_: your turn17:23
msdubov_boris-42 thanks17:23
boris-42what we did, what are our plans17:23
msdubov_So we have finally completed it: http://rally.readthedocs.org/en/latest/17:24
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msdubov_One of the greatest things about the new docs is this "step-by-step" Rally tutorial: http://rally.readthedocs.org/en/latest/tutorial.html17:24
msdubov_It has to be extended a bit and that's the major plan for the future development of these docs17:25
msdubov_e.g. stuff about different scenario runners is missing etc.17:25
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msdubov_eom17:25
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boris-42ьmsdubov_ sounds good17:26
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boris-42msdubov_: btw it will be nice to put extra info about .rally directory17:27
msdubov_Yep I believe there will be lots of small changes as soon as we receive more feedback on these dosc17:27
boris-42msdubov_: at least in tutorial about using multple clouds17:27
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msdubov_I also hope we will be able to get the RTD Sphinx theme in global requirementss17:28
boris-42msdubov_: not sure lol17:28
msdubov_To be able to review it17:28
boris-42msdubov_: but redixin can make for us job17:28
boris-42msdubov_: on Mirnatis Rally CI17:28
msdubov_boris-42: redixin That would be nice!17:28
boris-42okay17:29
boris-42let's move17:29
boris-42#topic Murano base17:29
*** openstack changes topic to "Murano base (Meeting topic: rally)"17:29
boris-42rvasilets: ^ hey17:29
boris-42rvasilets: could you please provide update17:29
boris-42I hope to get that patches ready and merge them=)17:29
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rvasiletsHi. For a long time I am working on adding Murano to Rally. There are a lot of issues. The most serious issue was that we don't wan't to download a big image from internet17:31
rvasiletswicj murano app need17:31
boris-42rvasilets: so did you find the way to avoid that issue and make something simple?17:31
rvasiletsNow I need to fix only unit tests for that patch and rebase it on the changes that was meged last wekk17:31
boris-42rvasilets: like puting fake stuff17:32
rvasiletsYes17:32
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rvasiletsI found17:32
boris-42rvasilets: that sounds great17:32
rvasiletsNow I have add 9Kb folder to Rally and creates everything temporary17:32
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rvasiletsThe key idea here is that this folder contains murano app that17:33
rvasiletsdon't need image17:33
boris-42кmsdubov_ щлфн)17:33
rvasiletseom17:33
boris-42rvasilets: yep 9kb directory is not issue17:34
boris-42rvasilets: great work on this17:34
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msdubov_boris-42 wat? :)17:34
boris-42msdubov_: ??17:34
boris-42msdubov_: we need a 9kb directory in rally-jobs/extra17:34
msdubov_boris-42: okay seems like you occasionally mentioned me17:34
boris-42msdubov_: oh sory17:34
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boris-42#topic Making gate-rally-dsvm-cli publish ouptut to files17:35
*** openstack changes topic to "Making gate-rally-dsvm-cli publish ouptut to files (Meeting topic: rally)"17:35
boris-42oanufriev: ^17:35
oanufrievso17:35
oanufrievthere is a patch on review https://review.openstack.org/#/c/147098/17:35
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boris-42oanufriev: could you explain for everybody that idea and why we need it17:35
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oanufrievthere implemented writting  and collecting reports of rally commands during functional tests17:36
oanufrievthen this reports become available in gerrit17:36
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oanufrievunder gate-rally-dsvm-cli reference17:38
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boris-42oanufriev: btw I would like to see some manuals  )17:38
boris-42openstack: probably in new readthedocs we should put explanation + in rally/tests/functional/README.rst17:39
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oanufrievso, functional tests become more informative. By the way, you can get this reports running functional tests local17:39
boris-42oanufriev: otherwise newbies won't now about it17:39
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boris-42oanufriev: deff agree on that17:40
oanufrievyou should decorate your test method with test.functional.utils.gen_publish_path17:40
boris-42oanufriev: without this feature we need to run locally in any case when there are some changes that requires documents17:40
oanufrievand declare 'report_path' argument17:41
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oanufrievinstance of ReportPath  will be passed to it17:42
boris-42 oanufriev I would prefer to see it documented17:43
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oanufrievok. WBD17:43
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boris-42openstack: could you put some documentation on readme.rst in tests/functional/* ?17:43
boris-42oanufriev: great17:43
oanufrieveof17:43
boris-42oanufriev: I will try to review your patch17:43
oanufrievok17:43
boris-42msdubov_: amaretskiy rvasilets ^ please do the same guys17:44
boris-42It's really cool stuf17:44
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boris-42#topic open disucssion17:44
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*** openstack changes topic to "open disucssion (Meeting topic: rally)"17:44
boris-42maybe somebody would like to discuss anything?17:45
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rvasiletsno question17:45
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amaretskiyno questions17:45
msdubov_msdubov_ no from me17:45
boris-42msdubov_: oanufriev ?17:45
oanufrievnop17:46
boris-42okay seems like we can end meething and go home=)17:46
boris-42Thank you guys and see you tomorrow=)17:46
boris-42#endmeeting17:46
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"17:46
openstackMeeting ended Tue Jan 20 17:46:34 2015 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)17:46
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/rally/2015/rally.2015-01-20-17.06.html17:46
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/rally/2015/rally.2015-01-20-17.06.txt17:46
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/rally/2015/rally.2015-01-20-17.06.log.html17:46
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jeblairkia ora! anyone around for an infra meeting?19:01
fungihalloo?19:01
clarkbo/19:01
pleia2o/19:01
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gothicmindfoodo/19:02
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mmedvedeo/19:02
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AJaeger_I'm here...19:02
jeblair#startmeeting infra19:02
openstackMeeting started Tue Jan 20 19:02:59 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is jeblair. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.19:03
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.19:03
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: infra)"19:03
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'infra'19:03
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jeblair#link agenda https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/InfraTeamMeeting#Agenda_for_next_meeting19:03
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jeblair...no idea if that's accurate...19:03
jeblair#link previous meeting http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2015/infra.2015-01-13-19.02.html19:03
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asselin_hi19:03
krtayloro/19:03
jeblair#topic Actions from last meeting19:03
*** openstack changes topic to "Actions from last meeting (Meeting topic: infra)"19:03
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jeblairSergeyLukjanov send announcement about puppet module split to infra and dev19:03
jeblairthat happened19:03
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jeblairlemme dig up a link19:04
clarkbI have it19:04
clarkb#link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-infra/2015-January/002323.html19:04
jeblairyay.  so that's jan 28th19:05
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jeblairwe should all be back from running around various places by then :)19:05
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jeblairor at lesat most of us19:05
fungiyep19:05
clarkbme three19:05
fungiexcept for anteaya19:05
pleia2yeah, I'll be around then too (but flying off to fosdem the day after)19:05
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jeblairjhesketh: around?19:06
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jeblairi think we can defer scheduling project renames for now19:06
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fungiyeah19:07
fungidon't think we'd do any before next week19:07
jeblair#topic Priority efforts:  Puppet module split19:07
*** openstack changes topic to "Priority efforts: Puppet module split (Meeting topic: infra)"19:07
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clarkbI have mostly put these changes on the back burner figuring we would crank through them during the sprint19:07
jeblair#link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/puppet-module-split-sprint19:07
clarkbif that is not ok let me know and I can put those changes back on my review list19:08
jeblairthere's a sign up sheet on the etherpad ^19:08
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mmedvedeI have assigned myself a bunch of modules on storyboard19:08
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asselin_clarkb, I added recheckwatch to run through before the sprint, but it can wait19:09
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asselin_I updated storyboard a bit, but not sure it's 100% synchronized with reality19:10
jeblairasselin_: recheckwatch?19:10
asselin_puppet-recheckwatch19:10
nibalizero/ (sorry for late)19:10
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asselin_jeblair, https://review.openstack.org/#/c/140430/19:11
fungiit seemed like there were a lot of volunteers to write the modules and split the repos, so i figured i would spend the sprint focusing on reviewing the same19:11
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fungias that is where i fear we may get bottlenecked19:11
fungithat and possibly troubleshooting problems arising from merging them19:11
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jeblairasselin_: ah, gotcha, thanks19:13
jeblairfungi: ++19:13
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jeblair#topic Priority efforts:  Nodepool DIB19:15
*** openstack changes topic to "Priority efforts: Nodepool DIB (Meeting topic: infra)"19:15
clarkbso as of today this is working for devstack images in hpcloud best I can tell19:16
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clarkbthough I should check overall health of image building across all the images19:16
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clarkbbut we can build them and mix snapshots and dib images19:16
fungiand check experimental runs stuff on them19:16
fungifor devstack-gate19:16
clarkbfungi: I switched all jobs too19:17
fungioh, right, now devstack jobs running in hpcloud get dib19:17
jeblairclarkb: you switched all jobs? :)19:17
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fungier, dib-built images19:17
clarkbso the the devstack-trusty and devstack-precise labels in hpcloud are using those images19:17
jeblairoh wow!19:17
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clarkbya it worked so I dove in and it hasn't broken yet19:17
fungiand seem (yay!) to not have broken anything obvious19:17
clarkbthat was thursday last week?19:17
fungisounds right19:18
jeblairthat's excellent news!19:18
clarkbso next steps are make not devstack images dibable (make jobs do more?) and make nodepool speak rax glance and image format19:18
jeblairso what's next?  wait for mordred to get us ready for rax-lance?19:18
clarkbjeblair: ya that and working on moving non devstack jobs to dib'd images too19:18
fungirax lance sounds like a fiendish weapon19:19
mordredohai119:19
jeblairfungi: i'm told it's painful, yes19:19
mordredsorry - was arguing keystone in -dev19:19
fungikeystone wins. flawless victory19:19
mordredI've got a local patch to nodepool that's halfway to getting the needed glance/swift code in place19:19
jeblairclarkb: cool, that will make it easier to expand to all 9 virtual routers in hpcloud too (once we get rid of nodepool-built images there)19:19
mordredI'm hoping to finish on today's plane19:19
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clarkboh there is a bug that we build two images right next to each other and upload those as our two current images instead of having a 24 hour old image and a current image19:20
mordredalso - jroll tells me that the network info in config-drive is rolling out to rax now and is in place in IAD19:20
clarkbso that needs debugging and fixing too19:20
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jeblairclarkb: after 24 hours, do we _also_ have a 24 hour old image plus 1 or 2 current images?19:21
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jeblairor do we delete both then have 2 new ones?19:21
clarkbjeblair: delete both and have 2 new ones19:21
clarkbjeblair: I think it may be because I manually did image builds at some point and it threw off image rotating19:21
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clarkbI think that if I maybe delete the older of the two it will go back to normal?19:22
jeblairokay, that's pretty important then -- i don't want to be without the ability to roll back images quickly19:22
clarkbjeblair: ya19:22
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jeblairthat should be unit-testable in nodepool i think19:22
clarkbok will look into that19:22
clarkband ya should be since we don't actually need to make images to test rotation19:22
jeblair(so hopefully should have a faster debug/test cycle than many nodepool changes)19:23
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jeblairanything else on dib nodepool?19:23
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clarkbnot from me19:24
jeblair#topic priority efforts:  Jobs on trusty19:24
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fungithere has been some movement in the discussion with the ubuntu package maintainers19:24
mordredfungi: was is just a shuffling kind of dance?19:25
fungihowever, it sounds like they don't expect to have it fixed in the next few weeks at least19:25
fungiso i think we should go ahead and drop py33 testing for now19:25
fungiwe can switch all but two projects which are currently gating on 3.3 to 3.419:25
fungii can write up the change some time today hopefully19:25
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jeblairwe should probably send something to -dev and give at least 1 week notice, yeah?19:26
fungioslo.rootwrap and oslo.messaging would be the two left naked until we can run their jobs on trusty19:26
fungiyep, i'll put together an announcement for that19:27
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mordredI'm assuming dhellmann is fine with leaving rootwrap and messaging naked for a minute?19:27
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fungii _did_ look into centos 7 as an option, but they don't have 3.4 available for side-by-side installation (another option i'm not fond of is compiling our own or using a third-party package)19:28
fungii hope so but need to confirm with him again. i did offer some help to the ubuntuites if i can be of assistance at all in getting some of the legwork done but haven't seen a reply yet19:28
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jeblairi'm not sure what else is current on the agenda, so....19:30
fungianyway, i don't have anything else for this topic at the moment19:30
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jeblair#topic open discussion19:30
*** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: infra)"19:30
clarkbreports of slow gerrit19:30
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krtaylorI'll mention that we have the third-party documentation sprint coming up this week19:31
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clarkbwe are hitting our 8GB memory limit on the jvm19:31
clarkbthat may be a symptom or the cause19:31
jeblairkrtaylor: what is the goal of the sprint?19:32
clarkbzaro: ^ is 8GB reasonable? maybe this is a memory leak19:32
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krtaylorjeblair, major rewrite/refresh of the third-party docs, any and all help would be appreciated ->  https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/third-party-ci-documentation19:32
jeblairclarkb: how much history for that metric do we have?19:32
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asselin_clarkb, I've got a tool that can pinpoint memory leaks19:33
clarkbjeblair: via melody a year but the graphs are kinda rough19:33
clarkber sorry melody hasn't been there for a year so since we reinstalled gerrit?19:33
jeblairkrtaylor: gotcha.  unfortunately, most of infra-core is traveling and in meetings this week :(19:33
pleia2my WIP zanata module change could use some feedback if someone wants to play around with it this week, there are some puppet order of operations issues (need wildfly modules installed before zanata, etc) and I'm not quite sure what the best way about structuring it is https://review.openstack.org/#/c/147947/19:34
asselin_jeblair, then there'll be (hopefull) lots to review when on planes, or when you're back19:34
krtaylorjeblair, yeah, but at least we can get a bunch of patches waiting for review when everyone frees up19:34
krtaylorasselin_, yes19:34
clarkbpleia2: that sounds like a good thing to look at during my layover19:34
jeblairasselin_, krtaylor ++19:34
fungithere was a point at which we speculated that gertty's polling frequency might be too high and could put increased load on gerrit... anyway to confirm whether its increased popularity is/isn't contributing?19:34
pleia2krtaylor: I'm not core, but I should be around during the sprint and can help out with reviews19:35
clarkbI have since end of september looks like in melody19:35
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clarkband there is a definite positive slope on the memory graph19:35
krtaylorpleia2, great, thanks!19:35
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nibalizerpleia2: im happy to be a resource on zanata/puppet stuff19:36
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jeblairclarkb: that does sound leaky; is that the last restart?19:36
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clarkbjeblair: maybe? I need to read ps manpage t oconfirm :) ps -elf says 201419:36
jeblairheh19:37
pleia2nibalizer: thanks, I've appreciated your review thus far :)19:37
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asselin_clarkb, http://h30499.www3.hp.com/t5/Business-Service-Management-BAC/Plugging-the-leaks-Blog-3-A-novel-approach/ba-p/5410775#.VL6uV0cVgh819:37
jeblairclarkb: maybe restarting right now would give us info19:37
asselin_clarkb, there's a free 'profiler' mode that should work19:37
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jeblairclarkb: should we try that now?19:39
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clarkbjeblair: restart was december 6th19:40
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clarkblet me look at graph again knowing that19:40
clarkbya looks like there is a fall in memory use right around then and about a week later it picks up in a large tick then again in a couple weeks19:41
fungiftr, `ps -o pid,lstart` is the magic for seeing a proper start time19:41
clarkbjeblair: so at very least it may be a good tempoary fix to restart gerrit19:41
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jeblairyeah, i think it would be useful to know if a restart makes it better, and how long it takes for it to get worse (and whether we can correlate that with anything)19:42
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jeblairi think this meeting has about wound down... any last items before we call it done?19:42
clarkbok I can do that now someone want to kick statusbot?19:42
jeblairclarkb: will do19:43
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fungioh, while we have a bunch of foundation people in a room together as a captive audience, anyone have anything they want us to make them generally aware of which you think they might not be?19:43
clarkbjeblair: do I need to do anything to make zuul not freak out or just roll the dice?19:43
jeblairfungi: thank them for the web site work? :)19:44
fungizuul _seems_ to reconnect fine19:44
clarkbya I think its more if zuul tries to report while gerrit is restarting that it may have a sad19:44
fungijeblair: yes! it's even on the roadmap in the master slide deck to achieve "infra team parity" by end of 201519:44
clarkbzuul is processing a small queue backlog maybe I should wait19:44
fungiso hoping to help make that goal a reality19:44
jeblairwoot!19:45
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clarkbexcept zuul is probably slow processing that due to slow gerrit19:45
clarkbok I am not waiting just going to restart19:45
jeblairthanks everyone, see you at next week's meeting and sprint19:45
jeblair#endmeeting19:46
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"19:46
openstackMeeting ended Tue Jan 20 19:46:02 2015 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)19:46
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2015/infra.2015-01-20-19.02.html19:46
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2015/infra.2015-01-20-19.02.txt19:46
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2015/infra.2015-01-20-19.02.log.html19:46
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-openstackstatus- NOTICE: Gerrit restarted to address likely memory leak leading to server slowness. Sorry if you were caught in the restart19:53
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mikalttx: meeting, yes?20:00
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fungiyes, he's logging in now20:01
clarkbmikal: yes he just arrived to room with wifi20:01
mikalAhhh, ok20:01
dhellmanno/20:01
mikalFairy nuff20:01
devananda\o20:01
zehicleo/20:01
haypo_o/20:01
russellb_o_20:01
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mikalrussellb: is that you head desking?20:02
jeblairo/20:02
sdagueo/20:02
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russellbor offering a hug?20:02
russellbnot sure20:02
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fungihe's struggling with conference room wifi, just another moment or two20:02
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jeblairfungi: you could type for him20:03
fungi(moment is a very specific unit of time, however i refuse to define it for you)20:03
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mordredo/20:03
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* mikal continues to watch planes while waiting20:03
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zanebfungi: we need more running commentary20:04
ttxo/20:04
ttxyay I made it20:04
russellb\o/20:04
mikalYay!20:04
dhellmannwoo!20:04
ttx#startmeeting tc20:04
openstackMeeting started Tue Jan 20 20:04:26 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is ttx. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.20:04
ttxsorry for the delay20:04
* dhellmann knew he could do it20:04
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.20:04
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: tc)"20:04
ttxOur agenda for today:20:04
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'tc'20:04
ttx#link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/TechnicalCommittee20:04
ttxzehicle: you around?20:04
zehicleyy20:05
ttx#topic Next Defcore steps (zehicle)20:05
*** openstack changes topic to "Next Defcore steps (zehicle) (Meeting topic: tc)"20:05
ttxzehicle: looks like we have amendments passed?20:05
zehicleYeah!  The bylaws changed :)20:05
ttxso what's up?20:05
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zehicleso, they said that we would have a process to change the core20:05
zehicleand that process would be approved by the TC and Board before it could be implmented20:05
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jokke_o/20:06
zehicleso, DefCore is working to write that stuff down in a process-y way20:06
zehicleand then bring it back to TC and Board for more discussion20:06
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zehicleI was hoping that we'd have some official TC delegates to work w/ DefCore on that definition20:06
ttxzehicle: that's the process to communicate changes in "TC approved releases" right20:06
vishyo/20:06
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zehicleyes20:07
ttxlike make sure we don't remove stuff from it without a lot of advance notice20:07
zehicle+120:07
ttxzehicle: One interesting twist to the tags stuff is that we would express those "Tc-approved releases" using a tag20:07
zehiclethe primary artifacts are JSON files with the capabilities and sections20:07
ttxrather than with the blanket "integrated release" thing20:07
zehiclepossibly - was not trying to work out the details of how just yet20:07
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zanebwe need to hook everyone up to electrodes that shock them every time they say 'core' on IRC ;)20:08
ttxso we can probably align the requirements with that tag definition20:08
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zehiclenot sure there's enough power20:08
mordredyah - I think the ask is "who from the TC wants to dive in on the definition?"20:08
zehiclemordred, yes20:08
* mikal backs away20:08
ttxIs anyone interested in participating to that ?20:08
mordredit's possible that there are process elements that have important ramifications based on current or new TC process - but those details would be worked out by this group, yeah?20:08
zehicleI'm happy to discuss more details here too, but having butts in seats is first20:08
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mordredI would be happy to participate - but my track record in being able to show up at defcore meetings is very low20:09
ttxI can try -- usually the time of the meetings is a bit EU-unfriendly but I'm fine helping out20:09
mikalWould it make sense to trick one of the people on the board and TC into working on that?20:09
zehicleIf I know who's in, then we'll adjust timing20:09
annegentleand by trick you mean...20:09
mikalI was thinking russellb would enjoy this20:09
ttxyay, our BoD+TC members would make ideal candidates20:09
ttx(that would be russellb, vishy and mordred)20:09
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zehicleonly if they have the time to put into it20:10
russellbsure20:10
zehiclenot likely to be crazy work, but we do need someone who can help with the workflow that works well with the community process20:10
ttxhow about russellb and mordred as main correspondants + ttx as a backup20:10
mordredkk20:11
russellbwfm20:11
mordredalthough I cannot attend this friday20:11
ttxI'm happy to leave the seat to anyone though, so feel free to steal it :)20:11
mordredor whichever the day is that zehicle is doodling for20:11
zehiclemordred, that's ok.  we'll set the agenda and discuss20:11
ttxzehicle: anything else ?20:11
zehicletwo smaller items20:11
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zehicle1) we are considering moving the capabilities/secitons JSON out of refstack and looking for recommendations.20:12
ttx#info Defcore Board/TC co-approved process design: russellb and mordred as main correspondants + ttx as a backup20:12
zehiclethat will be part of the DefCore disucssion.  no need to resolve now.  Just letting everyone know it will be discussed20:12
ttxzehicle: who has final approval on that ? Board ?20:12
zehicle2) making sure there's visibility on RefStack / TestIDs / Tempest interactions20:12
zehiclettx, TC first and then Board20:13
zehiclethat was my reading of the bylaws changes20:13
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zehicleI am thinking it makes sense to put it on the Joint agenda for May in Vancouver and do it together20:13
ttxok20:13
zehicleso #2, the process really needs to tests identities to be stable across releases - so it's important to have GUIDs for tests20:14
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zehicleI know that's more Tempest team, but there are cross project impacts so I wanted to make sure it was on the TC radar20:15
ttxzehicle: could you describe the impacts in some ML post ?20:15
ttxso that we can start thinking about that ?20:15
zehiclesure. O20:15
zehiclethere's a patch out there, I'll send the link20:16
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sdaguethere was a session in Paris on it as well, the current progress is - https://review.openstack.org/#/c/144329/2/specs/meta-data-and-uuid-for-tests.rst,cm this spec proposal20:16
zehiclesdague, thanks.  yes20:16
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ttx#action zehicle to introduce refstack/tempest needs impact in a ML post to discuss in a subsequent meeting20:16
ttxzehicle: anything else ?20:16
zehiclethat's the main items for me20:16
zehicletiming is tight to get this done before Vancouver20:17
ttxzehicle: alright! Thanks for coming20:17
zehicle:)20:17
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ttxno kidding20:17
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annegentlethanks zehicle20:17
ttx#topic Project structure reform20:17
*** openstack changes topic to "Project structure reform (Meeting topic: tc)"20:17
ttx* Template for tags definition (https://review.openstack.org/145734)20:17
ttxThis one now has hte required votes, so I'll approve it right now20:17
ttxchecking for any recent -120:17
devanandattx: it looks like it was updated without addressing comments on the last rev?20:18
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devanandattx: was that intentional? to be clear, I think the current wording is good, though I thought it could use a little more20:18
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ttxdevananda: no, I just missed it20:18
devanandaI can toss that up in a follow on ...20:18
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devanandano need to hold this up20:19
ttxdevananda: How about we propose those as subsequent chnages ?20:19
ttxok20:19
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ttxI'll approve it now, we can add examples as a subsequent change20:19
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sarobTtx: examples will be good20:20
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ttxFWIW I expec tthe tag template to evolve as we define more of those20:20
ttx* Definition of the initial 'integrated-release' tag20:20
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sarobTtx: I should have PM feedback next Monday20:20
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ttxThis one has 8 votes, ready to approve unless someone objects20:21
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ttxI'll take that as a "no obejction"20:22
ttxOn tag application (https://review.openstack.org/146818) last week we discussed a format that would allow a payload / reference20:22
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ttxSomething like: 'integrated-release: bexar'20:22
ttxFeel free to suggest on the review other ways to store extra information -- if you don't I'll try to find something20:22
dhellmannI like eglynn's proposal of using a dictionary or sub-dictionary20:23
jeblair++20:23
jeblair(ime that works really well in yaml)20:23
ttxreading now, missed it earlier20:23
devananda++20:23
annegentleso tags are applied in programs.yaml?20:23
dhellmannannegentle: right20:24
jeblairheh, i guess it should be 'mv'd to projects.yaml :)20:24
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dhellmannttx: I have some time on a plane this week, so if we can settle on a format I can work on some code to render tables20:24
ttxit is moved20:24
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ttxin the next review20:24
annegentleand you're renaming it right :) heh jeblair types faster than I20:24
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ttxhmm, ok, I'll try to post a new rev with the dict model soon20:24
mordredannegentle: jeblair types faster than everyone20:25
annegentlemordred: noted20:25
ttxjeblair: I suspect we need to define the dictionary in the tag definition too20:25
dhellmannttx: ++20:25
dhellmanneither there, or in another yaml file (that would make validation easier)20:25
jeblairttx: agreed20:25
ttxso maybe that can be proposed as a tag template evolution and be retrofit in the just-approved integrated-release tag20:25
ttxI should probably have held on approval, oh well20:26
russellbthis won't be the only thing we need to tweak as we go20:26
russellbno big deal20:26
ttxYes I'd rather make progress and fix thatn hold on forever20:26
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ttx#action ttx to propose the version with dictionary, unless someone beats him to it20:27
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ttx* Move from program-based structure to project-based (including new projects requirements) (https://review.openstack.org/145740)20:27
annegentleI'd like tags defined elsewhere to not overload projects.yaml (nee programs.yaml)20:27
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* ttx chekcs for recent reviews20:27
annegentleI had questions on that20:27
annegentlethat would probably be easiest to discuss here20:28
ttxannegentle: you would duplicate the list of projects if it was in a separate file20:28
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ttxOn the 145740 one, I posted a new rev clarifying the "logged IRC meetings" requirement.20:29
annegentlettx: I guess a document explaining the tags would meet my need20:29
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ttxStill waiting on more reviews to make progress here20:29
dhellmannttx: I took that to mean the fields expected for each tag, not the associations of the tags with the projects20:29
ttxdhellmann: reading your recent comment20:29
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ttxdhellmann: that would belong to the tag definition document, no ?20:29
annegentleso are tags applied to projects or repos?20:30
ttxto repos20:30
dhellmannttx: I thought that's what annegentle was saying, but maybe I misread20:30
annegentleso... why maintain tags on projects?20:30
annegentlenot all of the docs repos are going to be in the docs project I imagine20:30
ttxwell, projects is a bit overloaded20:30
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ttxproject teams on one side, repositories on the other20:30
annegentleso I'm thinking through it that way.20:30
ttxyou describe project teams and the list of their repositories20:31
annegentlefor example, the security team owns the security-doc repo, do they get added to projects.yaml in order to be tagged?20:31
ttxannegentle: take Nova as an example20:31
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ttxNova is the project team, openstack/nova and openstack/python-novaclient are repositories20:31
annegentlethen do my example :)20:31
ttxOnly openstack/nova would get the compute-base tag if we define such thing20:31
dhellmannannegentle: I would expect so, yes.20:31
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annegentleso does the security team need to elect a ptl?20:32
ttxannegentle: they already do20:32
annegentlebut they're not in programs.yaml now right20:32
ttxannegentle: it's a bit of a corner case -- the securityt-doc repo was sponsored by the docs team20:32
dhellmannperhaps that's an oversight?20:32
annegentlebut no longer in the new era I am supposing20:32
ttxso technically it belongs to docs currently20:33
ttxin the new era, it would be easier to let them be a team20:33
ttxand let them own that repo20:33
annegentleI sense the same20:33
ttxas long as we agree they fit the requirements20:33
ttxrequirements we are currently defining :)20:33
annegentlehow does a cross project ptl then choose what to tag as "supported?"20:34
annegentleseems heavy on individual ptl20:34
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ttxannegentle: not sure I understand the question20:34
ttxannegentle: the team should suppor what it's fine supporting ?20:34
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ttxdhellmann: thanks for the feedback, that's the kind of stuff I need before I make up the next rev20:35
annegentleokay that'll still have the ptl deciding L2 L3 and so on for neturon, right/20:35
dhellmannI thought we were avoiding "supported" tags -- cross-projects teams need to be willing to "support" everything, even if they don't do the work directly20:35
devanandaannegentle: why would doc repos not be in the doc project?20:35
ttxother members: if you feel something is missing or out of place, feel free to suggest it changed in the review20:35
devanandaannegentle: and still have a doc-team-applied tag, i mean20:35
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ttxdhellmann: yes, "supported" might not be the best term for it20:36
annegentledevananda: currently there are repos that are not directly supported by the doc team, like training is "incubating" somewhat in the doc programs.yaml20:36
dhellmannok20:36
annegentleOk I'll note "let's not say supported" in the review where it's relevant20:36
ttxWe support everyone, we directly handle a subset20:36
devanandattx: I believe we've used the word "supported" in the past to mean directly-handled20:37
annegentle"you belong on docs.openstack.org, do the work to get there" is more what I'm thinking?20:37
dhellmannannegentle: so that would be a "published to docs.openstack.org" tag? That seems like a good one.20:37
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annegentledhellmann: right I think that's the heart/root of it20:37
fungithis sounds more along the lines of the "production ready" tag discussion20:37
devanandaperhaps a generic "supported-by-<teamname>" tag type is helpful here?20:37
fungi(but with a docs twist)20:38
devanandaor are we solving a problem that doesn't really exist20:38
dhellmannannegentle: although I'd hope under this new structure everyone "belonged" there :-)20:38
ttxyeah, I think we can cross that bridge when the first of such tags will be proposed20:38
ttxit will likely set policy for most of them20:38
devanandais it meaningful to anyone outside of the TC and PTLs to know which team is writing which docs?20:38
sdaguedevananda: I'm not sure that's a problem that exists, because at least for me the envisioned consumers of these are deployers20:38
devanandaor who is writing what client?20:38
sdagueit should be deployer / user relevant info20:38
annegentledhellmann: it is a big tent but people have to do the work is all I'm trying to indicate. Then it feels like "earn the tag" and then we're back to subjective unless we can test doc coverage automatically.20:38
devanandasdague: right20:38
ttxsdague: ++20:38
devanandaso which team wrote the docs in this repo is irrelevant to them20:39
dhellmannannegentle: right, not everyone is "ready" but everyone should be "invited"20:39
devanandaditto for python clients20:39
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sdaguedevananda: yeh, but a url to their user manual, install guide, developers guide are all relevant20:39
ttxI think we can save that discussion for when we'll propose such a tag, like in a few meetings20:39
ttxwe have more topics to cover20:39
devanandattx: ack20:40
ttxPlease post your comments on the proposed requirements though, I'd like to get to a more precise proposal next week20:40
annegentletags can be used by: contributor developers (what should I work on?), operators (what should I run in production?), users and app devs (what does my cloud provider offer that's OpenStacky?) and yep I'll summarize in a review20:40
ttxand I know there is no concsensus on some of those (like the oslo requirement Doug just proposed added)20:40
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ttx#topic Adding python clients to global requirements (boris42)20:41
*** openstack changes topic to "Adding python clients to global requirements (boris42) (Meeting topic: tc)"20:41
ttx#link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2015-January/054275.html20:41
ttxdo we have boris42 around?20:41
haypoboris-42: ping20:41
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ttxIt feels like projects.txt is used for two purposes: tracking integrated release deps and converging deps across projects20:42
ttxand some tension results from that20:42
haypottx: (boris-42 is idle since 1 hour according to my IRC client)20:42
sdaguettx: agreed20:42
mordredyah20:42
devanandattx: yes. I've hit that before as well20:42
ttxI mean, deps convergence is a noble goal20:42
devanandathe original goal AIUI was only #220:42
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devanandaensuring that all the projects could be installed in one environment20:42
devanandathough I think mordred had another idea how we could address that20:43
mordredfwiw - I don't have a problem with the theory of doing that with the noble goal of convergence - but I do worry about adding more things that have non-managed transitive deps that could get into conflict20:43
sdaguedevananda: it was also keeping sanity on what that was20:43
devanandawith an install-everythihng job20:43
ttxdevananda: how sustainable is that in a world where more projects exist ?20:43
devanandawich would let us get away from using requirements.txt to fulfil that goal20:43
devanandaand let it become #120:43
dhellmanndevananda: except the integrated release is going away, so do we care about #1 any more?20:43
clarkbso I don't think it should be #1 at all20:43
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clarkbyou track individual project deps in the project requirements lists20:44
devanandadhellmann: we still care that certain things can be installed together20:44
mordredI agree - I think it's about #2 - ensuring side-by-side ability20:44
clarkbthen global reqs is a sanity check for things that want to be openstacky20:44
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devanandaclarkb: individual project deps are bound by global requirements20:44
dhellmanndevananda: certainly, but that's not going to be limited to the integrated release20:44
clarkbdhellmann: yes20:44
mordredit's just that it turns out it's SO MUCH HARDER than we thought20:44
clarkber devananda yes20:44
devanandaclarkb: that is the problem which I thihnk boris is trying to solve20:44
mordredeven just in the integrated release20:44
ttxwould we track common deps for "whatever gets gate-tested together" separately from "general deps convergence in openstack projects" ?20:44
sdaguewell, part of the practical challenge is this is kind of an n^2 problem20:44
clarkbdevananda: I don'tthink it is a problem just let things in20:45
devanandaclarkb: fwiw, i've hit the same thing in ironic, and we worked around it in the same way20:45
mordredwe spend SO MUCH TIME dealing with pip and pypi releated challenges20:45
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sdaguewhere n is the number of things in that list20:45
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clarkbif they meet the technical criteria that are established20:45
devanandaclarkb: adding importutils.tryimport and the like, for modules that are not in global requirements20:45
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clarkbpy3k support, not duplicated functionality, licensing, etc20:45
devanandait's hard on packagers and deployers20:45
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clarkbdevananda: why? projects determine actual dependencies20:45
devanandaas they have to install additional things, not listed in the requjirements.txt file20:45
jeblairclarkb: i agree.  i think if we have a big tent, then we let more things in here, but it's still useful for projects to try to converge on one set20:45
fungii would say the biggest challenge is finding enough people to do meaningful reviews of proposed additions/updates to avoid it turning into a free-for-all mess20:45
mordredyah20:46
devanandaclarkb: I can't add something to ironic/requirements.txt if it's not in global requirements20:46
dhellmannfungi: ++20:46
mordredultimately, we can set all the policy we want20:46
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dhellmanndevananda: you can if you configure your d-g job to allow soft requirements20:46
clarkbdevananda: yes... I am saying add things if they meet the criteria20:46
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clarkbI don't like that the criteria goes beyond the technical list for choosing20:46
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devanandadhellmann: these are things which aren't needed in d-g20:47
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devanandadhellmann: eg, hardware drivers that we dont (and cant) test upstream20:47
devanandabut a distro may well want to make them available as packages, not just pip installs20:47
jeblairdevananda: then it's not really a requirement, is it?20:47
dhellmanndevananda: there are ways to get those into your test env, but yeah, what jeblair said20:47
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devanandajeblair: it is if you own that hardware20:48
sdaguejeblair: except if the goal is for the software to coexist, driver dependencies do matter20:48
sdaguewhich has been a giant punt at this point20:48
sdagueand every project does it differently20:48
jeblairi'm sorry, i thought we were literally talking about the pip _requirements_ for projects20:48
sdaguesome put them in requirements, some in test-requirements, some in no where20:48
dhellmannare you suggesting we should include those requirements in this list, too?20:49
devanandaI didn't mean to derail from boris-42 's topic -- but I think it's closely related20:49
dhellmannyeah, I'm just trying to understand all of the issues being raised20:49
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mordredI agree actually - I think g-r is going through a midle identity crisis20:50
devanandafor instance, the inclusion of python-ironicclient in nova's requirements.txt20:50
mordredmild20:50
mordrednot midle - that's not a world20:50
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mordredor a word20:50
sdague:)20:50
devanandait's a requirement ONLY if you want to use that driver20:50
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jeblairdevananda: yeah, not saying it's not important, but i don't think it is solved well in python in general, and there's not much we can do about that here20:50
devanandabut then, today, you have to go install python0ironicclient by hand20:50
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devanandasince it doesn't get caught by pip install -r requirements20:50
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devanandaand yah, we work around that in d-g20:51
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devananda(er, in devstack somewhere)20:51
* devananda waves hands20:51
* mordred waves back20:51
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ttxSo what's the next step for us in solving that mild identity crisis ?20:51
sdagueyeh, there is actually a bunch of work arounds in devstack for the driver issue20:51
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fungifor the thread boris-42 started on the ml though, it distills to "rally wants to test lots of things, so the clients it needs to interact with anything it tests should become an openstack requirement" which seems like a slippery slope20:52
clarkbthats orthogonal. The issue at hand is whether or not we should relax the criteria for proper pip requirements in global requiirements repo20:52
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clarkbwas responding to the ironicclient discussion not fungi20:52
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clarkband I think it is reasonable to add requirements to g-r if they are used by openstack projects and otherwise meet the criteria20:52
dhellmanndevananda: https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0426/#required-extension-handling (when implemented) would help with that20:52
devanandafungi: the solution to that seems to be for rally to just install those clients in its test env?20:52
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mordreddhellmann: yah - that's gonna be a ways off though20:53
fungidevananda: that was one proposed solution, yes20:53
dhellmannmordred: yeah20:53
ttxOK, this feels like a discussion we should develop on the ML -- anyone volunteering to kick it off ? Or should we just build on top of boris thread ?20:53
jeblairyeah, i think boris-42's topic is solved by the soft requirements feature.  i don't think that's actionable by us.  however, i think the question of what do do with g-r in a big tent is interesting, and i think we should loosen the criteria as clarkb suggests20:53
sdaguettx: I think the thread is there20:53
* mordred is happy for g-r to be more inclusive from a "if you're going to use library X if needs to be version Y" filter from a policy perspective - but would realy like to dig in to the technical problem that g-r is solving and whether it's even the right way to do that20:53
mordredespecially in a big-tent world20:54
zanebjeblair: +120:54
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dhellmannmordred: yeah, I'd be interested to see if the requirements compile thing in http://nvie.com/posts/better-package-management/ helps20:54
clarkbexcept we shouldn't be testing with compiked packages20:55
ttxOK, we need to move on20:55
mordreddhellmann: ++20:55
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dhellmannclarkb: it compiles the requirements list itself, not the packages20:55
dhellmann"compile" is used very loosely there -- read the post20:55
ttxjeblair/clarkb: could one of you follow up on the thread suggesting loosening ?20:55
ttxwant to make sure we don't let this one drop back below radar20:55
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clarkbya I can respond20:56
* fungi already followed up on the thread, which i think is part of what prompted it to get added to the agenda for this meeting :/20:56
ttxclarkb: thx20:56
ttxLet's quickly cover/skip the rest of the agenda20:56
ttx#topic Other governance changes20:56
*** openstack changes topic to "Other governance changes (Meeting topic: tc)"20:56
ttx* Correct formatting on some extra ATCs entries (https://review.openstack.org/147672)20:56
ttxThis is mostly cosmetic, so I'll approve it after meeting unless someone complains20:56
ttx* Update David Chadwick ATC expiration (https://review.openstack.org/147673)20:56
ttxThis one has +1 from PTL, so I think we can approve it at the end of this meeting, unless someone complains20:56
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ttx#topic Open discussion20:57
*** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: tc)"20:57
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ttxvishy:  I fear we don't have a lot of time left20:57
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ttxmaybe yo ucan introduce the topic again20:57
vishythat’s ok20:57
mikalUse your minute wisely20:57
ttx* How to drive more resources to critical oslo libs (vishy)20:57
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vishyI’m concerned that some key oslo libraries aren’t getting the attention20:57
vishythey need20:58
hayposo just accept my change to add aioeventlet dependency :-D https://review.openstack.org/#/c/138750/20:58
vishydespite dhellmann’s excellent efforts20:58
devanandadhellmann: are you doing much on the aio work? it looks similar to what we're doing in Ironic, but probably better thought out20:58
devanandahaypo: ohhai :)20:58
dhellmanndevananda: I'm not involved in that directly right now. haypo is leading that up.20:58
haypodhellmann told me that a cross-project spec should we written for asyncio, is that right?20:58
vishyoslo.db seems ok due to mike bayer putting a lot of work into it20:58
ttx#action ttx to move trollius discussion to next week meeting agenda20:58
vishybut oslo.messaging in particular seems lite20:58
dhellmannvishy: messaging could use some love -- we have a lot of part-timers working on it20:58
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dhellmannas far as I know, I am the only person working on Oslo full time20:59
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devanandadhellmann: is anyone working on oslo'ifying nova objects?20:59
vishyits a bit scary since it is a key piece of all openstack20:59
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russellbi think mike bayer feels like he has a hard time getting his stuff in, needing reviewers though20:59
dhellmannbnemec, dims__, jd__, flaper87, and the other cores do great work, but have less time20:59
dhellmannvishy: ++20:59
vishythere is a bug currently that makes rabbit reconnect not work properly20:59
markmcclainvishy: ++20:59
ttxhaypo: in the mean time we can have more discussion on the review20:59
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vishyit was totally broken for a very long time20:59
dhellmannwe have also, because of the graduation push, been focusing on that work rather than feature work for most of the libs for the kilo and juno21:00
ttxhaypo: sorry it couldn't fit in today21:00
* dims_ peeks21:00
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dhellmannso, yeah, we could use more help :-)21:00
vishyso perhaps there is some way we could encourage corporate entitites to help a bit more21:00
haypottx: well, i don't know what i should add to the review. you may put questions there if you want21:00
* devananda wishes he had more time to review oslo.db21:00
vishyi don’t have any solutions per se21:00
fungioslo definitely seems like a place we risk tragedy of the commons21:00
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vishyso if anyone has ideas :)21:01
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ttxvishy: an "oslo is important and needs yor help" blogpost would help21:01
russellbi'd retweet that :-p21:01
vishysounds like an interesting idea21:01
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dims_hehe21:01
dims_+121:01
vishymaybe I will try to put something together21:01
ttxIt's certainly time for us to refmect back on what a critical piece oslo has become21:01
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dhellmannmessaging isn't going to benefit from drive-by reviewers, though -- I would rather have 1-2 people really interested than 10 with a few minutes here and there21:02
ttxand make it shiny and encourage people to dedicate resources to it21:02
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ttxok, we are over teim21:02
ttxtime even21:02
ttxAnything else, anyone ?21:02
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ttxlast minute words ?21:02
dhellmannvishy: thanks for raising the issue :-)21:02
annegentleflibbertyjibbitz21:02
jeblairttx: thanks!21:02
ttxannegentle: is that your password ?21:03
ttx#endmeeting21:03
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"21:03
openstackMeeting ended Tue Jan 20 21:03:04 2015 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)21:03
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2015/tc.2015-01-20-20.04.html21:03
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2015/tc.2015-01-20-20.04.txt21:03
russellbthanks all21:03
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2015/tc.2015-01-20-20.04.log.html21:03
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jeblairannegentle is either really good or really bad at 'last minute words'.... :)21:03
ttxthanks all21:03
mikalSee ya21:03
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ttxRemember we skip the Cross-project meeting this week21:03
ttxOcean is waiting21:03
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jokke_ttx: oh, we do?21:03
eglynna-ha, k21:04
asalkeld /me heads back to bed21:04
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* eglynn too :)21:04
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ttxyes, I posted about it on the -dev list21:04
ttxSorry if you missed the notification21:04
jokke_damn ... missed it ... no worries then21:04
asalkeldjust habbit21:04
ttxI didn't want to keep you all awake21:04
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anteayattx enjoy ocean21:04
eglynnno worries, talk to y'all next week21:04
annegentlettx: jeblair: channelling dumbledore there for a minute21:04
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