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| hongbin | #startmeeting zun | 03:00 |
|---|---|---|
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Jan 10 03:00:05 2017 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is hongbin. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 03:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 03:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: zun)" | 03:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'zun' | 03:00 |
| hongbin | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Zun#Agenda_for_2017-01-10_0300_UTC Today's agenda | 03:00 |
| sudipto_ | o/ | 03:00 |
| hongbin | #topic Roll Call | 03:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Roll Call (Meeting topic: zun)" | 03:00 | |
| Namrata | Namrata | 03:00 |
| pksingh | pksingh | 03:00 |
| kevinz | kevinz | 03:00 |
| lakerzhou | lakerzhou | 03:00 |
| Wenzhi | wenzhi | 03:00 |
| hongbin | Thanks for joining hte meeting sudipto_ Namrata pksingh kevinz lakerzhou Wenzhi | 03:01 |
| hongbin | Let's start | 03:01 |
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| hongbin | #topic Announcements | 03:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Announcements (Meeting topic: zun)" | 03:01 | |
| hongbin | i have no announcement, anyone else has? | 03:01 |
| hongbin | #topic Review Action Items | 03:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Review Action Items (Meeting topic: zun)" | 03:01 | |
| hongbin | none | 03:01 |
| hongbin | #topic Support multi-host deployment (hongbin) | 03:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Support multi-host deployment (hongbin) (Meeting topic: zun)" | 03:01 | |
| hongbin | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/zun/+spec/support-multiple-hosts The BP | 03:02 |
| hongbin | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/415554/ The patch | 03:02 |
| hongbin | i have been working on this bp last week. | 03:02 |
| hongbin | right now, all the patches were submitted | 03:02 |
| hongbin | and they are under review | 03:02 |
| hongbin | that is all from me | 03:02 |
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| hongbin | any comment? | 03:03 |
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| hongbin | ok, then next topic | 03:03 |
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| hongbin | #topic Cinder integration (diga) | 03:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Cinder integration (diga) (Meeting topic: zun)" | 03:03 | |
| pksingh | hongbin: will look into it today | 03:03 |
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| hongbin | pksingh: ack. thx | 03:03 |
| hongbin | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/zun/+spec/cinder-zun-integration The BP | 03:04 |
| hongbin | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/417747/ The design spec | 03:04 |
| hongbin | it looks diga is not here | 03:04 |
| hongbin | let's table this one | 03:04 |
| hongbin | btw, i saw he submitted a spec for that | 03:04 |
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| hongbin | oh, it is the link above | 03:04 |
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| hongbin | anyone is welcomed to review his patch | 03:05 |
| hongbin | ok, next one | 03:05 |
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| hongbin | #topic Support interactive mode (kevinz) | 03:05 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Support interactive mode (kevinz) (Meeting topic: zun)" | 03:05 | |
| hongbin | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/zun/+spec/support-interactive-mode The BP | 03:05 |
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| hongbin | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/396841/ The design spec | 03:05 |
| hongbin | kevinz: ^^ | 03:05 |
| kevinz | Hi Hongbin | 03:05 |
| hongbin | hey | 03:06 |
| kevinz | I have a question about zun-api talk to docker daemon | 03:06 |
| hongbin | go ahead | 03:06 |
| kevinz | Need to use "resize" command to Docker, will it implement by zun-api--> docker daemon or zun-api -->zun-compute -->docker daemon | 03:07 |
| hongbin | i don't have a good answer for that | 03:07 |
| hongbin | need to do some investigation, will work with you after the meeting | 03:07 |
| kevinz | If use "zun-api --> docker daemon", in zun-api side need to add a httpclient for it | 03:08 |
| kevinz | OK | 03:08 |
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| sudipto_ | is re-size relevant to the interactive mode discussion? | 03:08 |
| kevinz | sudioto_: yeah | 03:08 |
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| kevinz | resize the tty session size so that it can change according to users' local terminal | 03:09 |
| kevinz | https://docs.docker.com/engine/reference/api/docker_remote_api_v1.24/#/resize-a-container-tty | 03:10 |
| sudipto_ | imho, the zun-api never should talk to the docker daemon directly because the driver abstraction is done at the compute layer...not at the API layer. So compute is the gateway to the runtime. | 03:10 |
| hongbin | i guess interactive mode doesn't have to use the driver abstraction? | 03:11 |
| hongbin | not sure right now, need to look into it | 03:12 |
| kevinz | right I use zun-api talk to docker daemon directly to get the websocket link, | 03:12 |
| sudipto_ | typically the API would run on the controller node, so are you suggesting contacting a docker daemon on a remote machine via http in that case? Also - does the API become aware of various drivers eventually? | 03:12 |
| sudipto_ | like today it's docker, tomorrow it could be something else. | 03:13 |
| hongbin | good point | 03:13 |
| hongbin | perhaps, make a call to zun-compute to get the connection information first, then use hte connection info to connect interactively | 03:14 |
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| kevinz | Yeah that may be a good solutions for this | 03:15 |
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| hongbin | there might be other options | 03:15 |
| kevinz | So CLIS--> Zun-api --> zun-compute to get he websocket link? | 03:16 |
| hongbin | yes | 03:16 |
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| kevinz | And CLIS--> Zun-api --> zun-compute to resize tty | 03:16 |
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| kevinz | That will be easy for tty to resize:-) | 03:17 |
| hongbin | ok, let's discuss it later | 03:17 |
| kevinz | OK | 03:17 |
| hongbin | move on | 03:17 |
| hongbin | #topic Make Zunclient an OpenStackClient plugin (Namrata) | 03:17 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Make Zunclient an OpenStackClient plugin (Namrata) (Meeting topic: zun)" | 03:17 | |
| hongbin | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/zun/+spec/zun-osc-plugin The BP | 03:17 |
| hongbin | Namrata: ^^ | 03:18 |
| Namrata | hi all.. | 03:18 |
| Namrata | i have added the patches for container API endpoints :Commands support | 03:18 |
| Namrata | and they are up for review | 03:19 |
| hongbin | yes, i saw a serious of patches | 03:19 |
| hongbin | all are great work! | 03:19 |
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| Namrata | Furthermore I will be working on Image Api endpoint commands | 03:19 |
| Namrata | thanks hongbin | 03:19 |
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| hongbin | Namrata: ack | 03:20 |
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| Namrata | thanks hongbin.Nothing to add more from my side | 03:20 |
| hongbin | Namrata: i think the image api hasn't been fully implemented yet... | 03:21 |
| Namrata | okay | 03:21 |
| Namrata | so what do you suggest | 03:21 |
| hongbin | Namrata: perhaps skip the image api for now, and consider this bp as implemented | 03:22 |
| Namrata | okay sounds good | 03:22 |
| hongbin | Namrata: i think all the container api are implemented, right? | 03:22 |
| Namrata | thanks | 03:22 |
| hongbin | great | 03:22 |
| hongbin | Namrata: if you are looking for next task, you can ping me after | 03:23 |
| Namrata | yes the etherpad which I created | 03:23 |
| Namrata | https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/zunclient_openstack-client-cli | 03:23 |
| Namrata | the listed commands are implemented | 03:23 |
| hongbin | awesome!! | 03:23 |
| Namrata | yeah sure hongbin | 03:23 |
| hongbin | ok | 03:23 |
| hongbin | all, any comment about the osc bp? | 03:23 |
| pksingh | its good work :) | 03:24 |
| hongbin | indeed | 03:24 |
| Namrata | thanks pksingh | 03:24 |
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| hongbin | #topic Open Discussion | 03:24 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: zun)" | 03:24 | |
| hongbin | anyone has topics to discuss? | 03:25 |
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| pksingh | hongbin: i just wanted to discuss about fuxi work by diga | 03:25 |
| pksingh | cant be introduce an api for volume create and then attacha that volume to conatiner | 03:25 |
| hongbin | pksingh: it looks diga is not here, but we can have a pre-discussion now | 03:26 |
| hongbin | pksingh: i think docker has api to create/attach volumes | 03:26 |
| pksingh | yes, just using that API and fuxi driver, can we expose our own rest API for volume create | 03:27 |
| hongbin | pksingh: fuxi doesn't have any api, it is just a docker plugin, so that when you call api in docker, it translate it to api calls to cinder | 03:27 |
| sudipto_ | fuxi intends to be a docker only broker? | 03:28 |
| pksingh | hongbin: yes, i understand that | 03:28 |
| hongbin | sudipto_: right now, it is docker only, | 03:28 |
| sudipto_ | pksingh, the api should be in cinder though isn't it? | 03:28 |
| hongbin | sudipto_: in the future, i am not sure yet, the roadmap is under discuss | 03:28 |
| sudipto_ | adding another API layer in fuxi, would mean we have two different APIs... | 03:29 |
| pksingh | hongbin: i think this is the same way other drivers like flocker work, | 03:29 |
| sudipto_ | isn't zun going to be interacting with cinder eventually? which would talk to docker? | 03:29 |
| sudipto_ | via fuji. | 03:29 |
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| * sudipto_ did not read the spec yet | 03:29 | |
| hongbin | sudipto_: both options are under consideration | 03:29 |
| hongbin | what diga proposed is to using fuxi, which is the second option | 03:30 |
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| sudipto_ | cinder already has a lot of storage vendor support, so i thought the flow could be something like : 1. Ask cinder for volumes from zun. Cinder creates the volume in the backend 2. Cinder gives the volumes to fuxi . 3. Fuxi does the attachment. | 03:31 |
| hongbin | sudipto_: yes, that is totally possible | 03:31 |
| pksingh | sudipto_: but we need to maintain the multitenancy too | 03:32 |
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| sudipto_ | multi-tenancy is maintained at cinder for the volumes... | 03:32 |
| hongbin | yes, one thing to note is that fuxi doesn't have multi-tenancy (too bad) | 03:32 |
| sudipto_ | no? | 03:32 |
| hongbin | how fuxi works is writing down the admin credential to a config file, then all the volumes were created in the admin tenant | 03:33 |
| pksingh | thats why i asked too maintain the volume records with tenants in our db | 03:33 |
| pksingh | hongbin: ohh, then i think this will not work | 03:33 |
| hongbin | yes, that means we need to skip fuxi if we wanted multi-tenancy | 03:33 |
| sudipto_ | I am not sure why fuxi is aware of multi-tenancy, or has to be aware of it. | 03:34 |
| sudipto_ | to me it appears to be low level in comparison to zun or cinder (sorry i have to read more maybe) | 03:34 |
| hongbin | sudipto_: well, if you create a volume, you have to specify the tenant of the volume? | 03:34 |
| sudipto_ | hongbin, that happens at the cinder layer... | 03:34 |
| hongbin | sudipto_: but zun need to use a tenant credential to interact with cinder? | 03:35 |
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| hongbin | sudipto_: but zun can pass down the user's context to cinder, that is fine | 03:36 |
| sudipto_ | hongbin, yeah something like that. | 03:36 |
| hongbin | sudipto_: but docker doesn't pass down the user's contex to its plugin (fuxi), that is hte problem | 03:36 |
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| sudipto_ | ok need to understand this better...will talk to you about this. | 03:37 |
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| hongbin | the problem is fuxi doesn't get any context passed from docker, so it has to use the admin credential in config file | 03:37 |
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| hongbin | ok | 03:37 |
| pksingh | thanks hongbin for clarifying :) | 03:37 |
| hongbin | sudipto_: pksingh : frankly, we can just skip fuxi if we wanted multi-tenancy | 03:38 |
| hongbin | that is the same problem with kuryr right now (kuryr doesn't support multi-tenancy as well) | 03:39 |
| hongbin | we can discuss that further later | 03:39 |
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| pksingh | hongbin: right now it seems so | 03:39 |
| hongbin | pksingh: ? | 03:39 |
| pksingh | hongbin: yes sure | 03:39 |
| pksingh | we can discuss later | 03:39 |
| pksingh | thanks for explaining | 03:39 |
| hongbin | np | 03:39 |
| hongbin | any other topic to be discuss? | 03:40 |
| hongbin | ok, all. thanks for joining the meeting | 03:40 |
| hongbin | #endmeeting | 03:40 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open discusion (Meeting topic: congressteammeeting)" | 03:40 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Jan 10 03:40:38 2017 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 03:40 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/zun/2017/zun.2017-01-10-03.00.html | 03:40 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/zun/2017/zun.2017-01-10-03.00.txt | 03:40 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/zun/2017/zun.2017-01-10-03.00.log.html | 03:40 |
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| takashi | #startmeeting masakari | 04:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Jan 10 04:00:29 2017 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is takashi. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 04:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 04:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: masakari)" | 04:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'masakari' | 04:00 |
| takashi | hi | 04:00 |
| abhishekk | o/ | 04:00 |
| Dinesh_Bhor | Hi | 04:00 |
| rkmrHonjo | hi | 04:00 |
| tpatil | Hi | 04:00 |
| takashi | As samP is not available, so I'll host the meeting today. | 04:01 |
| takashi | Can we proceed based on the agenda? https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/Masakari | 04:01 |
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| rkmrHonjo | Sure. | 04:02 |
| takashi | #topic bugs | 04:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "bugs (Meeting topic: masakari)" | 04:03 | |
| takashi | currently there are no critical bugs | 04:04 |
| tpatil | Right | 04:04 |
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| takashi | tpatil: Do you need some dicsussions about https://review.openstack.org/#/c/397064/ ? | 04:04 |
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| rkmrHonjo | tpatil: Takahara replied to your comment in this gerrit page. Please check Takahara's comment. | 04:05 |
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| takashi | sagara: hi | 04:05 |
| tpatil | Abhishek is working on that bugs from our side | 04:05 |
| sagara | hi | 04:05 |
| tpatil | Abhishek, do you want to talk about it? | 04:05 |
| abhishekk | yes, | 04:05 |
| abhishekk | I have figure out that due to while True loop, child thread is waiting forever | 04:06 |
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| abhishekk | https://github.com/openstack/masakari-monitors/blob/master/masakarimonitors/instancemonitor/instance.py#L165 | 04:06 |
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| abhishekk | If i move this code in a daemon thread then when I send sigterm, sigkill and sigint signal then parent and child processes are exiting correctly | 04:07 |
| abhishekk | only problem with this is that it will not exit gracefully | 04:08 |
| abhishekk | IMO as it is just a monitoring service, we should not care about exiting gracefully | 04:08 |
| abhishekk | please provide your opinions on the same | 04:08 |
| tpatil | if there are already some requests in progress and if you send SIGTERM signal to parent process, do you want child process to wait until all requests are processed or not? | 04:09 |
| tpatil | IMO, it should | 04:09 |
| tpatil | I have checked Takahara's comment | 04:10 |
| takashi | tpatil: I think it is better to keep on-going request. At least, if masakari-api recieves uncomplete request, it should record error | 04:10 |
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| rkmrHonjo | I think that exiting gracefully is needed, too. | 04:10 |
| takashi | to let operators to find incomplete evacuate request | 04:10 |
| takashi | s/uncomolete/incomplete/g | 04:10 |
| tpatil | Abhishek is working on exiting child process gracefully | 04:11 |
| tpatil | He will propose that patch sometime this week | 04:11 |
| takashi | tpatil: ok | 04:11 |
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| takashi | rkmrHonjo: Can I ask you to have a look at that patch? | 04:11 |
| takashi | once it is proposed to gerrit | 04:12 |
| rkmrHonjo | tpatil: Is the patch for masakari? | 04:12 |
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| takashi | for masakari-monitors, right? | 04:12 |
| tpatil | no, masakari-monitors | 04:12 |
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| tpatil | takashi: yes | 04:13 |
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| rkmrHonjo | tpatil: OK, I understood. | 04:13 |
| takashi | rkmrHonjo: thx | 04:13 |
| takashi | rkmrHonjo: there is another patch for masakari monitors https://review.openstack.org/#/c/417303/ | 04:15 |
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| rkmrHonjo | takashi: Oh, I didn't check it yet. | 04:16 |
| takashi | rkmrHonjo: I'd like to ask your review about masakari monitor/client stuffs, as you created a most of them | 04:16 |
| rkmrHonjo | takashi: Sure. I review it as soon as fast. | 04:17 |
| takashi | rkmrHonjo: thanks! | 04:17 |
| takashi | Does anybody have discussion topics related to bug stuffs? | 04:17 |
| tpatil | No | 04:19 |
| rkmrHonjo | no. | 04:20 |
| takashi | ok. | 04:20 |
| takashi | #topic spec proposal | 04:20 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "spec proposal (Meeting topic: masakari)" | 04:20 | |
| takashi | Before moving to open discussion, I'd like to discuss about spec related things | 04:20 |
| takashi | It seems that samP proposed a patch to create basic files for spec repo https://review.openstack.org/#/c/418176/ | 04:21 |
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| takashi | samP_: Hi | 04:21 |
| samP_ | takashi: hi.. | 04:21 |
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| tpatil | I will review that patch tomorrow. Abhishek, can you take a look at it today? | 04:22 |
| samP_ | I thought I couldn't attend.. | 04:22 |
| abhishekk | once it is merged, I will propose specs for implementing reserved_host recovery method and specs-lite for periodic tasks | 04:22 |
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| takashi | samP_: np. We are just talking about spec related works. | 04:23 |
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| samP_ | takashi: great.. thanks | 04:23 |
| takashi | samP_: Can I ask one question about your patch? https://review.openstack.org/#/c/418176/ | 04:23 |
| samP_ | takashi: sure | 04:24 |
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| takashi | samP_: It seems that unit tests for spec still remains as a to-do item. Will you add it soon, or need some help for that? | 04:25 |
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| samP_ | takashi: I will add them soon. | 04:26 |
| tpatil | samP_: Are you planning to add it in the same patch or in a followup patch? | 04:27 |
| samP_ | takashi: Im working on it now. I have just push it without them. so, others can push sepcs | 04:27 |
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| samP_ | takashi: It will be a separate patch | 04:27 |
| tpatil | samP_: Ok | 04:28 |
| takashi | OK. So let's land the basic files patch first, and add unit tests in a follow-up. | 04:28 |
| takashi | will have a look :-) | 04:28 |
| samP_ | takashi: thanks | 04:28 |
| rkmrHonjo | samP_: I'm reviewing the patch. I add point(+1 or -1) after this meeting. | 04:29 |
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| samP_ | rkmrHonjo: thanks | 04:29 |
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| takashi | #topic open discussion | 04:30 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: masakari)" | 04:30 | |
| tpatil | # link: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/masakari/+spec/ha-enabled-config-options | 04:30 |
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| tpatil | samP_: can you please approve this blueprint? | 04:31 |
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| takashi | tpatil: this is a kind of specless blueprint, right? | 04:31 |
| tpatil | correct | 04:31 |
| samP_ | tpatil: sure | 04:31 |
| tpatil | samP_: Thanks | 04:32 |
| samP_ | we agreed not to write spec on this. | 04:32 |
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| tpatil | correct | 04:32 |
| takashi | and the other items which require specs, we can start submitting specs after we land the basic files patch to spec repo | 04:33 |
| tpatil | as agreed in the last meeting, Abhishek will propose the required blueprints and life-specs once masakari-specs patch is merged. | 04:33 |
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| takashi | tpatil: I see, thanks | 04:34 |
| tpatil | 1) Add periodic tasks | 04:34 |
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| tpatil | 2) Implement remaining recovery methods | 04:34 |
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| takashi | tpatil: thanks | 04:35 |
| takashi | Is there any other topics for today? | 04:37 |
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| rkmrHonjo | no | 04:38 |
| Dinesh_Bhor | no | 04:38 |
| samP_ | any updates from Sachin@platform9? | 04:39 |
| takashi | samP: I also find some blueprints about monitor/client stuffs still in new status. Can I ask you to also check them and change their status? | 04:39 |
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| samP_ | takashi: sure, I will do | 04:39 |
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| tpatil | samP_: He has shared talk proposal on google docs, I think he is interested to know more the roadmap | 04:40 |
| tpatil | more about the roadmap | 04:40 |
| rkmrHonjo | takashi, samP_:Sorry, I forgot to change status... | 04:40 |
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| samP_ | tpatil: thanks, I saw your replay on email. Its nice we can do a presentation on summit with them | 04:42 |
| tpatil | samP: Do you have more use cases that you want to implement in Masakari? | 04:42 |
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| samP_ | tpatil: for huge topics, Bare metal HA, and container HA | 04:43 |
| samP_ | for ironic(bare metal HA) I can share some basic idea. | 04:44 |
| tpatil | samP_: I would like to know more about these use cases | 04:45 |
| samP_ | for container HA, I still thinking about a usecases. | 04:45 |
| tpatil | samP: Is it possible for you to describe these use cases in etherpad? | 04:46 |
| samP_ | tpatil: yes, sure. I will write them down. so, we can discuss them. | 04:46 |
| tpatil | samP: Thanks | 04:46 |
| tpatil | we can also implement HA for Cinder volume service similar to compute node failure? | 04:46 |
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| samP_ | tpatil: I thought about it. but they already have inbuild solution for that. right? | 04:47 |
| samP_ | tpatil: about cinder HA | 04:47 |
| samP_ | same goes for neutron | 04:48 |
| takashi | samP_: are you talking about cinder-volume act/act? | 04:48 |
| samP_ | takashi: yes | 04:48 |
| tpatil | If that's already there, no need to worry then | 04:48 |
| tpatil | I'm not sure whether all volume will be migrated automatically upon cinder volume node failure. | 04:49 |
| tpatil | I will confirm about this point later | 04:49 |
| rkmrHonjo | In my understanding, migrating is unnecessary if we use cinder-volume act/act. | 04:49 |
| samP_ | tpatil: volumes will not migrate, but other cinder-vol node will handle them insted | 04:49 |
| samP_ | guys.. really sorry.. I have to leave now | 04:50 |
| tpatil | samP: Ok | 04:50 |
| takashi | I think we already have capability for that (I mean ha for cinder service), as we can define process name or host type | 04:51 |
| samP_ | please put any actions items for me under samP | 04:51 |
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| samP_ | thank you all...bye | 04:51 |
| takashi | samP_: ok. thank you for your time | 04:51 |
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| takashi | samP: bye | 04:51 |
| rkmrHonjo | samP: bye | 04:51 |
| tpatil | #action: samP to review and approve ha-enabled-config-options blueprint | 04:52 |
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| abhishekk | sampath san has approved blueprint | 04:53 |
| tpatil | Ok, great | 04:53 |
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| takashi | will have a look about implementation patch | 04:54 |
| takashi | we have about 5 minutes left | 04:54 |
| takashi | do we have any other topics? | 04:55 |
| tpatil | Nothing from my side for now | 04:55 |
| rkmrHonjo | I don't have other topics. | 04:55 |
| Dinesh_Bhor | no | 04:55 |
| takashi | ok | 04:56 |
| takashi | thanks for joining! | 04:56 |
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| takashi | #endmeeting | 04:56 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open discusion (Meeting topic: congressteammeeting)" | 04:56 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Jan 10 04:56:41 2017 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 04:56 |
| Dinesh_Bhor | thank you all | 04:56 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/masakari/2017/masakari.2017-01-10-04.00.html | 04:56 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/masakari/2017/masakari.2017-01-10-04.00.txt | 04:56 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/masakari/2017/masakari.2017-01-10-04.00.log.html | 04:56 |
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| rkmrHonjo | bye. | 04:57 |
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| eranrom | #startmeeting storlets | 07:59 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Jan 10 07:59:44 2017 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is eranrom. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 07:59 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 07:59 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: storlets)" | 07:59 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'storlets' | 07:59 |
| eranrom | Hi | 07:59 |
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| kota_ | hello | 08:01 |
| eranrom | Hi kota_ | 08:01 |
| kota_ | eranrom: happy new year | 08:01 |
| eranrom | Happy new year & apologies for last week's cacellation | 08:01 |
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| akihito | Hi! happy new year! | 08:02 |
| kota_ | eranrom: np | 08:02 |
| kota_ | akihito: hi happy new year | 08:02 |
| eranrom | akihito: Hi | 08:02 |
| takashi | hi | 08:02 |
| sagara | hi | 08:02 |
| eranrom | takashi: Hi | 08:02 |
| kota_ | takashi: hi! | 08:02 |
| eranrom | sagara: Hi. Welcome | 08:02 |
| kota_ | sagara: welcome! | 08:02 |
| sagara | thanks | 08:02 |
| takashi | eranrom, kota_: Hi :-) | 08:02 |
| eranrom | takashi: Hi | 08:03 |
| eranrom | ok. Lets start our very first meeting for 2017 :-) | 08:03 |
| kota_ | yey | 08:03 |
| takashi | yes! :-) | 08:03 |
| eranrom | I have a short agenda here: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/Storlets#Agenda: | 08:03 |
| eranrom | but do feel free to add items. | 08:04 |
| eranrom | You do not need to edit, just type whatever subject you have. | 08:04 |
| eranrom | That is type it here in IRC :-) | 08:04 |
| kota_ | sure | 08:04 |
| takashi | ok | 08:05 |
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| takashi | thanks for adding my items :-) | 08:05 |
| eranrom | :-) | 08:05 |
| eranrom | The list is not all the items, just those few that I have picked from the bottom going up | 08:06 |
| eranrom | The idea is to look at all the list and prioritize | 08:06 |
| eranrom | Here is the query to see all the list https://review.openstack.org/#/q/project:openstack/storlets+status:open | 08:06 |
| kota_ | eranrom: that's same with me which is usually used. | 08:07 |
| eranrom | kota_: right. | 08:08 |
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| takashi | Personally I would like to land https://review.openstack.org/#/c/406620/ first, because it fixes broken unittests, which caused by my packaging work maybe | 08:09 |
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| takashi | not first, but asap | 08:09 |
| kota_ | takashi: so you're waiting on me :P | 08:10 |
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| eranrom | ok from me this is https://review.openstack.org/#/c/395152/ | 08:11 |
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| eranrom | I kinda want to land this before I continue with taking out the storlets code from the container and complete the migration to devstack | 08:12 |
| takashi | eranrom: I like that idea, but my only concern is that I'm not sure that (having process management script) is consistent with devstack-ish way | 08:12 |
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| kota_ | eranrom: cool, let me know what can be available on `s2aio.sh start` and `s2aio.sh stop`? | 08:13 |
| eranrom | takashi: right. The reason I have used it is that stack/unstack takes a long time | 08:13 |
| takashi | when using devstack, we use unstack.sh or rejoin-stack.sh for stop/restart | 08:14 |
| kota_ | eranrom: something like cleanup/reinstall? or restarting daemon? | 08:14 |
| kota_ | not yet looking at the actual code though | 08:14 |
| takashi | kota_: just for stopping/restarting daemon, AFAIK | 08:14 |
| kota_ | takashi: thx | 08:14 |
| eranrom | kota_: what it does is basically stop/start Keystone & swift_init all restart | 08:14 |
| eranrom | Takashi is right that there is the devstack way of doing so, but as far as I recall it is so slow | 08:15 |
| eranrom | and I need something quick to allow me test changes to the storlets code when running functional tests | 08:15 |
| takashi | eranrom: I see | 08:16 |
| eranrom | takashi: I think that the unstack code is more of a cleanup code - is that right? | 08:16 |
| takashi | AFAIK, they have different code for cleanup, clean.sh | 08:17 |
| takashi | eranrom ^^^ | 08:17 |
| eranrom | takashi: I see. | 08:17 |
| takashi | eranrom: and unstack.sh is juse stopping all services running in devstack env | 08:17 |
| takashi | s/juse/just/g | 08:17 |
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| eranrom | takashi: ok. gotcha | 08:17 |
| takashi | Currently we are doing a little bit different way for process running. I mean, in devstack we totally use virtualenv for each services, but in our devstack usage we don't run swift in virtualenv. | 08:19 |
| takashi | So I notice that it can be difficult for us to use unstack/rejoin-stack in current state... | 08:19 |
| eranrom | takashi: ok, 2 comments: | 08:20 |
| takashi | but when we totally adopt to devstack, I think it is better to use ordinal things (unstack,resoin-stack). | 08:20 |
| takashi | eranrom: ok | 08:20 |
| eranrom | 1. I have made a mistake and used stack.sh instead of rejoin-stack and this is why I thought it takes forever | 08:20 |
| eranrom | 2. According to your last comment, I should first run swift the devstack way, and probably abandon the start/stop patch | 08:21 |
| takashi | eranrom: I think so | 08:22 |
| eranrom | takashi: ok. thanks | 08:22 |
| eranrom | Anything else on the pending patches? | 08:23 |
| takashi | eranrom: but at the same time, having temporal script (s2aio.sh start/stop) also makes sense to me, because it is surely useful | 08:23 |
| takashi | does it make sense to land your patch first, and record todo to remove that script? | 08:23 |
| takashi | if it takes some time to totally adopt to devstack-way. | 08:24 |
| takashi | (and I expect so) | 08:24 |
| eranrom | takashi: IMO would be good, and then we can fix it so that stop==unstack, start==rejoin | 08:24 |
| takashi | eranrom: yes | 08:24 |
| eranrom | takashi: ok great. thanks | 08:24 |
| eranrom | anything else on the patches? I think there are some long pending python functional tests patches | 08:25 |
| akihito | My functional test items are currently being fixed. | 08:25 |
| akihito | Sorry for the delay in fix.. | 08:25 |
| eranrom | akihito: no worries. | 08:25 |
| kota_ | akihito: np | 08:25 |
| akihito | I will fix it this week. | 08:25 |
| kota_ | nice | 08:25 |
| eranrom | great. thanks | 08:26 |
| eranrom | next topic? | 08:26 |
| takashi | eranrom: yes | 08:26 |
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| eranrom | #topic PTG | 08:26 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "PTG (Meeting topic: storlets)" | 08:26 | |
| eranrom | I guess it would be good time to start planning. | 08:27 |
| eranrom | I will create an Etherpad and post the URL in our channel | 08:27 |
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| eranrom | If there is nothing else on PTG, we can probably move to open discussion | 08:29 |
| kota_ | eranrom: https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/storlets-otaca-design-summit <- this one? | 08:29 |
| eranrom | kota_: Do you want to reuse it? | 08:30 |
| takashi | kota_: maybe we need 'pike' version | 08:30 |
| kota_ | oops | 08:30 |
| kota_ | i picked it up from today's agenda | 08:30 |
| eranrom | kota_: Good that you have mentioned it, we can look for a reference at all the things we still want to do | 08:30 |
| eranrom | kota_: I will update the meeting page with the new one :) | 08:31 |
| kota_ | eranrom: thx! | 08:31 |
| eranrom | once I create it. | 08:31 |
| eranrom | ok. open discussion? | 08:31 |
| kota_ | i might create the brand new page at etherpad | 08:31 |
| kota_ | https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/storlets-pike-design-summit | 08:31 |
| eranrom | kota_: thanks, that was fast | 08:31 |
| kota_ | was attempting to check the existence | 08:31 |
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| kota_ | nothing added yet though | 08:32 |
| eranrom | kota_: no worries. It will get filled :) | 08:32 |
| kota_ | eranrom: yes please ;-) | 08:33 |
| eranrom | kota_: BTW do you want to bring IPython integration to Swift? | 08:33 |
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| kota_ | eranrom: not sure for now, it could be nice but swift may be less interested in the ipython extension because swift is not designed to store coding cells iirc | 08:34 |
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| kota_ | designed to storle blob rather than code | 08:35 |
| kota_ | s/storle/store | 08:35 |
| eranrom | kota_: right. I was mainly thinking about GET/PUT | 08:35 |
| eranrom | but worse case we can add it in ours if we find it useful | 08:36 |
| kota_ | i may introduce the feasibility in the design session but i think just related project would be good for swift. | 08:36 |
| eranrom | kota_: sure. | 08:36 |
| kota_ | thinking of storlet, i think it should be in upstream repo because it's useful to deploy storlet apps into swift | 08:37 |
| kota_ | eranrom: and I'm waiting you to resolve your get line extension ;-) | 08:37 |
| kota_ | resolve merge conflict | 08:37 |
| eranrom | kota_: np. sure, I will resolve + make some changes | 08:38 |
| eranrom | its on the top of my list :-) | 08:38 |
| kota_ | eranrom: yeah, the point that we can get the response content as a variable is super useful. | 08:38 |
| eranrom | kota_: indeed. | 08:39 |
| takashi | kota_, eranrom: For me, it is very good chance to learn about iPython. :-) | 08:39 |
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| takashi | and I love the idea | 08:39 |
| kota_ | takashi: me too. I just was starting to learn in the last Dec. | 08:39 |
| eranrom | I am working on machine learning integration with storlets, and IPython is tool many data sciuentists use | 08:39 |
| eranrom | scientists | 08:40 |
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| eranrom | Kota's patch came exactly at the right time for me | 08:40 |
| eranrom | :-) | 08:40 |
| takashi | eranrom: great! | 08:40 |
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| kota_ | eranrom: yeah, to be honest, I had a chance to talk with some data scientists too. | 08:40 |
| eranrom | kota_: any interesting insights? | 08:41 |
| kota_ | eranrom: who uses ipython/jupyter notebook ;-) | 08:41 |
| kota_ | ah | 08:41 |
| eranrom | kota_: Was this the reason you have added it? | 08:41 |
| kota_ | eranrom: they said something like dry-run should be useful to test their programs before deploying | 08:41 |
| kota_ | eranrom: sure | 08:42 |
| eranrom | a-ha! nice! | 08:42 |
| eranrom | ok, so if we talk about it, I think the next steps could be making life easier by creating templates that automat the loading of the dataset | 08:43 |
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| kota_ | sounds cool | 08:43 |
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| eranrom | e.g. instead of the data scientist needing to take the in_stream and load it, add some magic code that adds this for her | 08:44 |
| eranrom | or him | 08:44 |
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| eranrom | I will post this sometime... | 08:44 |
| eranrom | anything else for today? | 08:46 |
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| akihito | I'm nothing. | 08:46 |
| kota_ | that's full | 08:47 |
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| takashi | nothing from my side | 08:47 |
| eranrom | sagara: ? | 08:48 |
| sagara | nothing | 08:48 |
| eranrom | ok all so thank very much for joining! | 08:48 |
| takashi | thanks! | 08:48 |
| sagara | thx | 08:49 |
| eranrom | talk to you later! | 08:49 |
| kota_ | thanks eranrom leading the meeting! | 08:49 |
| akihito | thank you! | 08:49 |
| eranrom | #endmeeting | 08:49 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open discusion (Meeting topic: congressteammeeting)" | 08:49 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Jan 10 08:49:18 2017 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 08:49 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/storlets/2017/storlets.2017-01-10-07.59.html | 08:49 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/storlets/2017/storlets.2017-01-10-07.59.txt | 08:49 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/storlets/2017/storlets.2017-01-10-07.59.log.html | 08:49 |
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| saggi | #startmeeting karbor | 15:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Jan 10 15:01:35 2017 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is saggi. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 15:01 |
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| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 15:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: karbor)" | 15:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'karbor' | 15:01 |
| saggi | Hi everyone | 15:01 |
| yuval | hey o/ | 15:01 |
| chenying | hi | 15:01 |
| yuval | \o/ | 15:01 |
| chenying | :D | 15:02 |
| saggi | How is everyone | 15:02 |
| chenying | Fine. | 15:02 |
| yuval | very well | 15:02 |
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| saggi | Nothing in the agenda | 15:03 |
| chenying | It seam that only us now? | 15:03 |
| saggi | #topic bug progress report | 15:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "bug progress report (Meeting topic: karbor)" | 15:03 | |
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| yuval | a few bugs still open in dashboard | 15:03 |
| saggi | assinged? | 15:04 |
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| annilai | Hi | 15:04 |
| chenying | I am working on this bug https://bugs.launchpad.net/karbor/+bug/1574980. | 15:04 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1574980 in Karbor "need a mechanism to check resource status in plan" [Medium,Triaged] | 15:04 |
| chenying | annilai Hi :D | 15:04 |
| yuval | hey annilai | 15:05 |
| annilai | Hi | 15:05 |
| yuval | saggi: yes, assigned to xiang, he is working on them | 15:05 |
| saggi | good | 15:05 |
| saggi | It looks like things are shaping up | 15:05 |
| chenying | dashboard Zhangshuai and xinyong are working on the bugs about dashboard. | 15:05 |
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| saggi | We need to start planning things for the PTG | 15:08 |
| saggi | specifically things we want to coordinate with other projects | 15:08 |
| saggi | #topic PTG | 15:08 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "PTG (Meeting topic: karbor)" | 15:08 | |
| saggi | and things we want to show off | 15:09 |
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| yuval | anyone from China coming to PTG? | 15:09 |
| saggi | any suggestions? | 15:09 |
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| chenying | the protection plugins about freezer. We may need think about it. | 15:10 |
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| zhonghua1 | I will not be there :) | 15:11 |
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| chenying | yuval Husheng will come to PTG. | 15:11 |
| yuval | tiramiso is scheduled to pike, we should be there for discussions | 15:11 |
| yuval | *tiramisu | 15:11 |
| saggi | 👍 | 15:12 |
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| chenying | Good idea. To discuss the solution about replication in cinder. | 15:14 |
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| smcginnis | yuval: Yes please. I really want to make sure we consider Karbor needs with any further replication design. | 15:15 |
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| zhonghua1 | yuval, +1 | 15:16 |
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| yuval | smcginnis: saggi and myself will be there | 15:17 |
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| smcginnis | Great! | 15:17 |
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| saggi | We should also talk with Manila. See how close they are to having a backup API. | 15:18 |
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| chenying | saggi I will pay close attention to the spec about share backup in manila. | 15:20 |
| saggi | Anything to report? | 15:20 |
| saggi | can you link it here? | 15:20 |
| chenying | wait a moment | 15:21 |
| chenying | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/330306/ | 15:21 |
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| saggi | I'll check it out later | 15:22 |
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| saggi | in any case yvual will open an etherpad for us to list talk ideas. | 15:23 |
| saggi | #topic open discussion | 15:24 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: karbor)" | 15:24 | |
| saggi | anything else? | 15:24 |
| chenying | I have submitted the patches about refactor plugins. It seem that there is a problom about vm fullstack tests. I am working on it. | 15:24 |
| yuval | there is an issue with openstack client which might cause that | 15:25 |
| yuval | see here: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/418190/ | 15:25 |
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| chenying | yuval: Good job, I will check it later. | 15:25 |
| yuval | and https://bugs.launchpad.net/python-novaclient/+bug/1654806 | 15:25 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1654806 in python-novaclient "Functional tests (with neutron) failing with "ERROR (Conflict): Multiple possible networks found, use a Network ID to be more specific. (HTTP 409)" since 1/6" [High,In progress] - Assigned to Matt Riedemann (mriedem) | 15:25 |
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| yuval | I think it is supposed to be fixed now | 15:26 |
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| chenying | saggi The patches about the spec ' | 15:27 |
| chenying | Add extra_info field to the response of instances API' have been rebased. Do you have time to review it? | 15:27 |
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| saggi | chenying: I will try and review it today. If not tomorrow morning | 15:28 |
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| chenying | saggi: Thanks. | 15:28 |
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| saggi | Anything else? | 15:30 |
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| saggi | OK, good job everyone. I'm glad to see the bug count going down. | 15:30 |
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| saggi | At this rate we could start working on spec files for P very soon | 15:31 |
| chenying | saggi +1 | 15:31 |
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| saggi | Thanks everybody | 15:32 |
| saggi | #endmeeting | 15:32 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open discusion (Meeting topic: congressteammeeting)" | 15:32 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Jan 10 15:32:49 2017 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 15:32 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/karbor/2017/karbor.2017-01-10-15.01.html | 15:32 |
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| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/karbor/2017/karbor.2017-01-10-15.01.txt | 15:32 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/karbor/2017/karbor.2017-01-10-15.01.log.html | 15:32 |
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| rodrigods | o/ | 18:00 |
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| ayoung | Oyez! | 18:00 |
| lbragstad | o/ | 18:00 |
| stevemar | o/ | 18:00 |
| gagehugo | o/ | 18:00 |
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| stevemar | ping for meeting agrebennikov, amakarov, annakoppad, ayoung, bknudson, breton, browne, chrisplo, crinkle, davechen, dolphm, dstanek, edmondsw, edtubill, gagehugo, gyee, henrynash, hrybacki, jamielennox, jaugustine, jgrassler, knikolla, lamt, lbragstad, kbaikov, ktychkova, morgan, nisha, nkinder, notmorgan, raildo, ravelar, rderose, rodrigods, roxanaghe, samueldmq, shaleh, spilla, srwilkers, StefanPaetowJisc, s | 18:00 |
| stevemar | tevemar, topol | 18:00 |
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| stevemar | #startmeeting keystone | 18:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Jan 10 18:00:50 2017 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is stevemar. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 18:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 18:00 |
| knikolla | o/ | 18:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'keystone' | 18:00 |
| browne | o/ | 18:00 |
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| stevemar | hi everyone | 18:01 |
| gagehugo | hi! | 18:01 |
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| dstanek | o/ | 18:01 |
| spilla | o/ | 18:01 |
| jaugustine | \o/ | 18:01 |
| lamt | o/ | 18:01 |
| stevemar | #link agenda for today https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/keystone-weekly-meeting | 18:01 |
| bknudson | hi | 18:01 |
| stevemar | hey bknudson | 18:02 |
| stevemar | lets get going | 18:02 |
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| stevemar | #topic Announcements | 18:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Announcements (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:02 | |
| stevemar | Current week is R-6 -- 6 weeks until we release! | 18:02 |
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| rderose | o/ | 18:02 |
| dolphm | \o | 18:02 |
| stevemar | that means everything has to be done *well* before that :) | 18:02 |
| stevemar | Game plan for library releases is the following... | 18:03 |
| stevemar | R5 (next week) is the last week for client libs (keystoneauth, keystoneclient, keystonemiddleware, and pycadf) | 18:03 |
| stevemar | I will release new versions of these libraries this week and only re-release if necessary. | 18:03 |
| stevemar | so basically, if you don't have your patch merged into ksc/ksa/ksm by EOD, don't bet on it becoming part of the O release | 18:04 |
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| stevemar | the re-release part is only if we muck up and another project is hurt | 18:04 |
| stevemar | (or a requirements bump) | 18:04 |
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| stevemar | Game plan for feature work is the following... | 18:04 |
| stevemar | R4 (week after next -- Jan 23-27) is the last week of Ocata-3, all features must be implemented by mid-week. | 18:05 |
| stevemar | Don't anticipate getting huge changes into the RC period | 18:05 |
| stevemar | we bumped "role check in middleware" to Pike | 18:05 |
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| stevemar | there is only "shadow mapping" and "query for users with expired passwords" left to implement | 18:05 |
| stevemar | i think those are do-able by next week | 18:05 |
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| stevemar | spilla / lbragstad you are the owners of those bps, do you agree? | 18:06 |
| lbragstad | stevemar for sure - i'll have a new patchset up for shadow mapping today | 18:06 |
| dstanek | short cycle during a holiday period. i sortof expected some delays | 18:06 |
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| stevemar | dstanek: yes, we definitely over-committed :) | 18:06 |
| rderose | stevemar: also, extending user api to support federated attributes | 18:06 |
| rderose | (left to implemented, but well underway | 18:06 |
| spilla | I should be able to finish by next week | 18:07 |
| lbragstad | stevemar dstanek and I broke that work into two separate pieces, the implementation should be finished with my patch but dstanek's patch has the magic that allows for getting projects into the mapped properties | 18:07 |
| stevemar | rderose: get as much of that complete as you can, but theres a lot to do, we need to figure out what the criteria is for marking that complete, i expect some spill over into Pike | 18:07 |
| lbragstad | dstanek's patch is really close, and I wouldn't be surprised if we couldn't get that merged within the next 48 hours | 18:07 |
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| stevemar | spilla: rgr, your stuff is close anyway | 18:07 |
| stevemar | so if folks are looking to review things, review those BPs, bug rderose / lbragstad / spilla for links | 18:08 |
| stevemar | or better yet | 18:08 |
| stevemar | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/q/topic:bp/shadow-mapping | 18:08 |
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| lbragstad | yep ^ | 18:08 |
| stevemar | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/403898/ | 18:09 |
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| stevemar | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/q/topic:bp/support-federated-attr | 18:09 |
| stevemar | (the second one is query users for expired passwords) | 18:09 |
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| spilla | stevemar: ty | 18:09 |
| topol | o/ | 18:09 |
| stevemar | last of my game plans :) | 18:10 |
| stevemar | Game plan for stable releases is the following... | 18:10 |
| stevemar | Will be releasing mitaka and newton versions for: keystone, keystoneclient, keystonemiddleware, and keystoneauth either this week or next. | 18:10 |
| stevemar | I had to fix the gate for KSA and KSM so that slowed me down | 18:10 |
| dstanek | lbragstad: is there anything left to do to it? | 18:10 |
| stevemar | but to everyone else: Propose any backports that you would like to see included! Otherwise I will propose to release from whatever is the latest commit. | 18:10 |
| lbragstad | dstanek not sure - i need to follow up with you and samueldmq about your conversation from earlier, but we can do that after the meeting | 18:10 |
| stevemar | this is for stable/mitaka and stable/newton | 18:10 |
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| stevemar | backports to stable/mitaka should only be security or performance related | 18:11 |
| samueldmq | lbragstad: ++ | 18:11 |
| samueldmq | lbragstad: just some differences from the spec, like creating the roles that do not exist | 18:11 |
| stevemar | mitaka will be going EOL in a few weeks ~ months | 18:11 |
| samueldmq | lbragstad: but they're minor things, looking great overall | 18:11 |
| stevemar | mitaka EOL is 2017-04-10 | 18:11 |
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| stevemar | last announcement | 18:12 |
| stevemar | #topic PTG | 18:12 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "PTG (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:12 | |
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| stevemar | Pike PTG etherpad is here: | 18:12 |
| stevemar | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/keystone-pike-ptg | 18:12 |
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| stevemar | a full list for all projects is here: | 18:13 |
| stevemar | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/PTG/Pike/Etherpads | 18:13 |
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| stevemar | (the eventbrite page isn't loading for me) | 18:14 |
| stevemar | but its here: https://www.eventbrite.com/e/project-teams-gathering-tickets-27549298694 | 18:14 |
| stevemar | i'll be buying my ticket today | 18:14 |
| stevemar | have my hotel booked | 18:14 |
| gagehugo | not loading for me either | 18:15 |
| stevemar | it was a bit slow, loaded now | 18:15 |
| stevemar | 146 tickets left | 18:15 |
| dstanek | 146 remaining tickets | 18:15 |
| knikolla | worth noting is that for the boston summit, there will be no ATC codes distributed. but you'll get a code through your PTG ticket. | 18:15 |
| dstanek | they've been going slow | 18:15 |
| stevemar | knikolla: that is correct | 18:15 |
| topol | That RDU to ATL flight is brutal. Sometimes you dont even have time get a drink on the plane | 18:16 |
| stevemar | going to the PTG will get you free pass for the boston summit | 18:16 |
| stevemar | topol: my movie may not even finish in time | 18:16 |
| lbragstad | also - i got a note in my personal mailbox about booking hotels at a discounted rate for the Atlanta PTG | 18:16 |
| dolphm | topol: sounds like a challenge | 18:16 |
| stevemar | anyone else know if they going / not going? | 18:17 |
| knikolla | going. still need to book travel/accomodation. where are y'all staying? | 18:17 |
| dolphm | you'll also only get a code for the summit/forum through your PTG ticket IF you actually show up to the PTG | 18:17 |
| stevemar | knikolla: at the conference hotel | 18:17 |
| stevemar | dolphm: that is also true | 18:17 |
| stevemar | hopefully not too many people don't think they can abuse that :) | 18:18 |
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| morgan | o/ | 18:19 |
| dstanek | stevemar: going..but not sure about hotel just yet | 18:19 |
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| morgan | sorry a little late | 18:19 |
| stevemar | morgan: 5 demerit points | 18:19 |
| knikolla | stevemar: conference hotel was on the expensive side | 18:19 |
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| morgan | 5 points from gryffindor | 18:19 |
| topol | 10. he's like 20 mintues late | 18:19 |
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| morgan | with the sheraton discount it was about avg for atl "big" hotels | 18:19 |
| stevemar | ++ | 18:19 |
| morgan | topol: shush | 18:19 |
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| topol | are folks getting rental cars? | 18:20 |
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| knikolla | i'll probably end up on an airbnb as usual | 18:20 |
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| lbragstad | i was just planning getting an Uber if required | 18:20 |
| rderose | uber | 18:20 |
| topol | k | 18:20 |
| gagehugo | uber ++ | 18:20 |
| morgan | i'm just going to carpool with topol everywhere | 18:20 |
| stevemar | topol: not really much point since the hotel and conference are at the same place | 18:20 |
| morgan | the keystone uber driver | 18:20 |
| morgan | ;) | 18:20 |
| dolphm | morgan: ++ | 18:20 |
| topol | I may just uber then | 18:20 |
| dolphm | topol: uber will pay you, you know | 18:21 |
| morgan | dolphm: ++ | 18:21 |
| stevemar | alright, let's switch gears, the ptg will be very fun, everyone should come | 18:21 |
| samueldmq | I haven't got travel approval yet | 18:21 |
| morgan | i mean, we wont pay you | 18:21 |
| morgan | but... | 18:21 |
| samueldmq | but I heard at least the ticket is refundable | 18:21 |
| stevemar | if you need reasoning for a manager, i'm here for you | 18:21 |
| dolphm | *someone* will | 18:21 |
| lbragstad | samueldmq ++ | 18:21 |
| morgan | there is still money from the foundation i hear | 18:21 |
| morgan | if you apply soon | 18:21 |
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| morgan | for financial assitance | 18:21 |
| morgan | but that is a rumor i've heard through the grapevine | 18:21 |
| dolphm | for foundation travel funding: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Travel_Support_Program | 18:22 |
| * topol Lived in ATL for 9 years. Know some great restaurants | 18:22 | |
| rderose | topol: sweet! | 18:22 |
| lbragstad | I totally wanna go back to Max's | 18:22 |
| dstanek | topol: roscos chickena and waffles doesn't count | 18:22 |
| morgan | dstanek: ++ | 18:22 |
| stevemar | alrighty, really switching to next topic this time :) | 18:22 |
| stevemar | #topic invalid query parameters [lamt] | 18:23 |
| dolphm | #link apply for travel funding https://openstackfoundation.formstack.com/forms/travelsupportptg_atlanta | 18:23 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "invalid query parameters [lamt] (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:23 | |
| stevemar | lamt: you're up | 18:23 |
| lbragstad | #link https://launchpad.net/bugs/1654084 | 18:23 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1654084 in openstack-api-wg "Listing resources with invalid filters should result in a 400" [Medium,In progress] - Assigned to Ed Leafe (ed-leafe) | 18:23 |
| lamt | thanks - stevemar. #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/417315/5 | 18:23 |
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| lamt | The bug is to correct the behavior when a user specifies an invalid parameter in the URL | 18:24 |
| morgan | i like this change but it is an API contract break | 18:24 |
| morgan | fwiw | 18:24 |
| lamt | right now the code silently ignores the bad parameter, instead of returning 400 | 18:24 |
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| morgan | so... without something like microversions or otherwise | 18:25 |
| morgan | i have to be a -2 on this. | 18:25 |
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| morgan | it is a contract (implicit) break | 18:25 |
| morgan | since we have historically ignored it | 18:25 |
| morgan | sorry :( | 18:25 |
| bknudson | I think the server should ignore invalid parameters since then new clients can work well enough with older servers | 18:25 |
| morgan | i really do like being more explicit | 18:25 |
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| morgan | but if you can convince mr PTL is isn't really a contract break, I'll just continue on my way and not be against it | 18:26 |
| stevemar | oh it is, i thought we were allowed to if fixing behaviour? | 18:26 |
| morgan | likewise, if we add a simple param all clients can send "&strict_query" and that causes the 400 | 18:26 |
| * lbragstad #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/keystone/+bug/1654084/comments/4 | 18:27 | |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1654084 in openstack-api-wg "Listing resources with invalid filters should result in a 400" [Medium,In progress] - Assigned to Ed Leafe (ed-leafe) | 18:27 |
| morgan | stevemar: imo not really, we are allowed to do things like 400 -> better 4xx error | 18:27 |
| morgan | or 500 -> proper non-500 error | 18:27 |
| morgan | but changing a 200 to a 400 is not good. | 18:27 |
| stevemar | http://specs.openstack.org/openstack/api-wg/guidelines/evaluating_api_changes.html#guidance | 18:27 |
| lbragstad | morgan aha - that makes sense | 18:27 |
| stevemar | bah | 18:27 |
| stevemar | The change is the only way to fix a security bug. | 18:27 |
| stevemar | Fixing a bug so that a request which resulted in an error response before is now successful. | 18:27 |
| stevemar | Adding a new response header. | 18:27 |
| stevemar | Changing an error response code to be more accurate. | 18:27 |
| morgan | yep | 18:27 |
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| gagehugo | "unless the success reported previously was hiding an existing error condition" | 18:28 |
| morgan | and this isn't hiding an error condition | 18:28 |
| gagehugo | but then that's up in the air if it's really an "error" | 18:28 |
| bknudson | this isn't saying we can't fix it. just that we can't change the behavior without a microversion. | 18:28 |
| morgan | it's just ignoring input that is invalid | 18:28 |
| morgan | bknudson: ++ | 18:28 |
| morgan | exactly | 18:28 |
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| morgan | i am -2 on the change as is. with a api version (microversion or otherwise) we can totally move forward | 18:28 |
| stevemar | sounds fair, sorry lamt, i got my rules mixed up | 18:29 |
| morgan | also, it's about 50/50 on if an API rejects or ignores query params | 18:29 |
| morgan | in the wild | 18:29 |
| morgan | (non-openstack) | 18:29 |
| stevemar | morgan: yaeh, its pretty weird | 18:29 |
| stevemar | for web searches it's pretty much always ignore | 18:29 |
| morgan | so i'm going to toss a -2 on it and comment on the bug again. | 18:29 |
| lamt | :( okay - perhaps it builds a case for microversioning | 18:29 |
| stevemar | lamt: definitely | 18:29 |
| lbragstad | morgan the "strict" case is interesting | 18:29 |
| morgan | lbragstad: yep possibly | 18:30 |
| morgan | there are ways to slice this | 18:30 |
| morgan | and i'm open to that | 18:31 |
| lbragstad | but - would that make us one of the only projects that supports both? | 18:31 |
| bknudson | what's the problem with microversioning? | 18:31 |
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| stevemar | bknudson: nothing, no one has done it yet :) | 18:31 |
| stevemar | bknudson: but i think lamt is going to do it :P | 18:32 |
| bknudson | I don't even see this as a bug. | 18:32 |
| bknudson | what problem is it causing? | 18:32 |
| lamt | stevemar : the spec is approved, perhaps something for Pike? | 18:32 |
| stevemar | its for correctness i guess, HTTP spec (and the API working group) say it should be a 400 | 18:32 |
| stevemar | bknudson: ^ | 18:33 |
| stevemar | lamt: totally, but ask whoever is PTL then :P | 18:33 |
| lbragstad | stevemar ++ | 18:33 |
| bknudson | ok, if the goal is to be consistent. | 18:33 |
| morgan | ok | 18:33 |
| morgan | commented on the bug and -2 on the review | 18:33 |
| stevemar | thanks morgan | 18:33 |
| lbragstad | if we're aiming for consistency, then i'd opt for the microversion | 18:33 |
| bknudson | my understanding is that nova solved API consistency changes through microversioning | 18:33 |
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| morgan | happy to remove the -2 once we have a path forward that isn't breaking contract | 18:33 |
| morgan | and i am 100% for a path forward (ftr) :) | 18:34 |
| morgan | bknudson: yep | 18:34 |
| stevemar | bknudson: you going to give up microversions? :) | 18:34 |
| morgan | that is the plan. | 18:34 |
| stevemar | give us* | 18:34 |
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| morgan | i'm fine with microversions, it's a lot of work, but would make some changes much easier | 18:34 |
| lbragstad | ++ | 18:34 |
| morgan | with a monotonic increase and clear support paths. | 18:34 |
| stevemar | yep | 18:34 |
| stevemar | something to think about for Pike | 18:35 |
| morgan | but i don't want half-assed impl. | 18:35 |
| morgan | i'll be very critical of the spec fwiw. | 18:35 |
| morgan | and code. | 18:35 |
| stevemar | morgan: the spec is already approved | 18:35 |
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| morgan | oh hah right | 18:35 |
| bknudson | half-assed impl is a good description of keystone. | 18:35 |
| stevemar | http://specs.openstack.org/openstack/keystone-specs/specs/keystone/backlog/microversions.html | 18:35 |
| morgan | then the code | 18:35 |
| morgan | i think i helped approve the spec now that i think about it | 18:35 |
| morgan | bknudson: half-assed key-value store via REST API that sortof manages identity information for openstack | 18:36 |
| morgan | :P | 18:36 |
| * morgan stops being too snarky | 18:36 | |
| stevemar | bknudson: you need to fix it all | 18:36 |
| morgan | stevemar: rm -rf | 18:36 |
| morgan | stevemar: done | 18:36 |
| morgan | fixed | 18:36 |
| morgan | ;) | 18:36 |
| stevemar | morgan: i think you mean rm -rf stevemar | 18:36 |
| bknudson | just rewite it in go. | 18:36 |
| morgan | bknudson: i hear we should do it in erlang | 18:37 |
| morgan | bknudson: it's clearly the right choice. | 18:37 |
| stevemar | alright, someone mentioned go, that means topic change | 18:37 |
| bknudson | nice, then we could replace running code. | 18:37 |
| lbragstad | just *go* rewrite it... | 18:37 |
| * lbragstad slaps knee | 18:37 | |
| rderose | :) | 18:37 |
| morgan | bknudson: and it needs to use toml instead of json (*glances around to see if anyone barfs*) | 18:37 |
| stevemar | #topic Adding domain_id to the user table [ rderose ] | 18:37 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Adding domain_id to the user table [ rderose ] (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:37 | |
| rderose | this may be a little early, but wanted to get this in front of you now | 18:37 |
| morgan | rderose: is this instead of a FK-like implement? | 18:38 |
| rderose | problem: need to add the domain for federated users | 18:38 |
| stevemar | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/409874/ | 18:38 |
| rderose | morgan: ? | 18:38 |
| morgan | i mean... don't we already have domain_id in the user tablre? | 18:38 |
| bknudson | I thought it was protocol buffers. | 18:38 |
| rderose | yes | 18:38 |
| morgan | bknudson: shush | 18:38 |
| rderose | currently domain_id is in the local_user table and federated users don't have a domain defined | 18:38 |
| morgan | hmm. | 18:38 |
| rderose | the domain will now come from the idp domain, but we need to properly set it for federated users | 18:38 |
| morgan | ah | 18:38 |
| morgan | makes sense to me. | 18:39 |
| rderose | solution: move domain_id up to the user table and create a foreign key relationship to the local user table, so that: | 18:39 |
| rderose | "user.id, user.domain_id -> local_user.user_id, local_user.domain_id" (1:1) | 18:39 |
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| rderose | https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxjKpg1oYSKRVXFPQXlWT2tDYzQ/view?usp=sharing (only before and after, ignore last 2 pages) | 18:39 |
| stevemar | that line makes sense to me | 18:39 |
| morgan | i wouldn't bother with the FK. just do it as a straight orm relationship | 18:39 |
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| rderose | the domain_id is still needed in the local_user table to ensure that the domain_id-name is unique | 18:39 |
| morgan | it doesn't need to be a FK | 18:39 |
| morgan | oh it does.. | 18:39 |
| morgan | damn | 18:39 |
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| rderose | morgan: the fk constraint will ensure that the user will belong to a single domain and that the domain is in sync between the 2 tables. | 18:40 |
| morgan | you can'd do FK(local_user || non_localuser) can you? | 18:40 |
| morgan | in SQL | 18:40 |
| rderose | morgan: why? | 18:40 |
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| morgan | just curious | 18:40 |
| morgan | not syaing it's better | 18:40 |
| lbragstad | that way we wouldn't need to duplicate it across tables | 18:40 |
| morgan | it could make the FK from whichever is authoritative for the user object (local or non) | 18:41 |
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| lbragstad | and domain_id would always come from the user table, but be used in the localuser table for uniqueness | 18:41 |
| morgan | but i mean thqt might be stupic complex | 18:41 |
| rderose | lbragstad: it's not duplicate (well sort of), but it's needed in the tables to ensure domain/name uniqueness | 18:41 |
| lbragstad | rderose right | 18:41 |
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| morgan | hm. | 18:42 |
| rderose | :) | 18:42 |
| morgan | ok i don't see an issue with moving it around. | 18:42 |
| stevemar | rderose: yeah, do what you gotta do | 18:42 |
| morgan | would non-local user also get the same FK entry? | 18:42 |
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| stevemar | rderose: you're the expert on all things shadow related now | 18:42 |
| morgan | so you would see the data in either table | 18:43 |
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| morgan | i ask because that might be just convinent | 18:43 |
| rderose | I should have the patch ready in a day or 2 for review | 18:43 |
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| rderose | but just wanted to get it in front of folks in case there were any strong objections | 18:43 |
| rderose | morgan: yes | 18:43 |
| morgan | cool | 18:43 |
| morgan | then i think this makes a lot of sense | 18:43 |
| rderose | stevemar: cool | 18:43 |
| rderose | that's it then | 18:43 |
| stevemar | #topic open discussion | 18:44 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:44 | |
| morgan | other stupid question... cna you have nonlocal user and local user for the same <user> record? | 18:44 |
| stevemar | any takers? | 18:44 |
| morgan | i think i saw code preventing that | 18:44 |
| rderose | morgan: account linking | 18:44 |
| morgan | ok cool | 18:44 |
| morgan | just making sure. | 18:44 |
| lbragstad | i don't think we've implemented account linking, but that sounds like it would make it possible to have a nonlocal user and a local user link to the same user reference | 18:45 |
| morgan | stevemar: please give the backport stable link? | 18:45 |
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| morgan | anyone who wants to review stable, please look at the reviews | 18:45 |
| stevemar | morgan: to what? open reviews? | 18:45 |
| morgan | yeah | 18:45 |
| morgan | the one you gave me yesterday | 18:45 |
| morgan | i'm going to sweep through today | 18:45 |
| rderose | lbragstad: we haven't implemented account linking, but part of the shadow user goals was to build a data model that would support it | 18:45 |
| morgan | but if you have concerns, please take a look | 18:45 |
| stevemar | https://review.openstack.org/#/q/project:openstack/keystone+branch:stable/newton https://review.openstack.org/#/q/project:openstack/keystone+branch:stable/mitaka | 18:46 |
| lbragstad | rderose ++ | 18:46 |
| stevemar | https://review.openstack.org/#/q/project:openstack/keystoneauth+branch:stable/newton and https://review.openstack.org/#/q/project:openstack/keystoneauth+branch:stable/mitaka | 18:46 |
| stevemar | we need more people proposing backports to stable, keeping an eye on the gates, and reviewing patches | 18:46 |
| morgan | only a couple of us have stable +2 rights. (mostly us crazy pendantic folks) | 18:46 |
| morgan | but.... | 18:46 |
| lbragstad | stevemar i'll make a note to look through today | 18:47 |
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| morgan | please propose the backports so us stable reviewes have an easier time landing | 18:47 |
| * dolphm needs to make a dashboard dedicated to stable branches | 18:47 | |
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| morgan | if you have code that is indended to backport, please propose it yourself to the stable branches :) | 18:47 |
| stevemar | its pretty easy to query... | 18:47 |
| morgan | it really does make the few of us more capable of landing. if stevemar, dolphm, or I propose the backport, you're limiting who can review | 18:47 |
| stevemar | yeah, theres a "cherry-pick" button in gerrit that makes it stupid easy | 18:47 |
| dolphm | morgan: ++ | 18:48 |
| lbragstad | dolphm i started using https://github.com/lbragstad/dotfiles/blob/master/dashboards/keystone-stable.ini | 18:48 |
| dolphm | lbragstad: i'll share mine when it's ready :P | 18:48 |
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| stevemar | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/q/project:"^openstack/@keystone@" -project:openstack/charm-keystone is:open branch:"^stable/@" -project:openstack/puppet-keystone | 18:48 |
| dolphm | not quite how that works ^ | 18:49 |
| stevemar | oh we also need someone to make this same change in keystoneclient: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/418194/ | 18:49 |
| stevemar | if someone is looking for easy work | 18:49 |
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| stevemar | alright, i think we're done here | 18:50 |
| samueldmq | stevemar: I can change that in the ksc | 18:50 |
| samueldmq | stevemar: that and backports, right ? | 18:51 |
| stevemar | oh also Pike PTL nomination is from Jan 23 - Jan 27 | 18:51 |
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| stevemar | samueldmq: yeah, the backports need love too | 18:51 |
| * samueldmq nods | 18:51 | |
| morgan | in short, don't make dolphm or myself come out of retirement... we like where we are | 18:51 |
| morgan | and since stevemar is not running... | 18:52 |
| morgan | step up :) | 18:52 |
| samueldmq | morgan: ++ | 18:52 |
| dolphm | lol | 18:52 |
| morgan | dolphm: right?! | 18:52 |
| morgan | :) | 18:52 |
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| stevemar | alrighty, hope to see everyone at the PTG in a few weeks! | 18:52 |
| lbragstad | stevemar ++ i'm looking forward to it :) | 18:52 |
| dolphm | go go nominations #notPTL | 18:53 |
| morgan | i gotta book a planeflight. | 18:53 |
| morgan | also #notPTL | 18:53 |
| stevemar | #almostNotPTL | 18:53 |
| stevemar | hehe | 18:53 |
| lbragstad | dolphm morgan stevemar y'all sell the job so well! | 18:53 |
| stevemar | its a lot of fun! | 18:53 |
| lbragstad | ;P | 18:53 |
| * stevemar ends meeting before he's caught in his lie | 18:54 | |
| morgan | #FormerPTLsUniteAndJustBecomeThePenutGallery | 18:54 |
| samueldmq | yeah, very inspiring | 18:54 |
| stevemar | #endmeeting | 18:54 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open discusion (Meeting topic: congressteammeeting)" | 18:54 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Jan 10 18:54:06 2017 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 18:54 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2017/keystone.2017-01-10-18.00.html | 18:54 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2017/keystone.2017-01-10-18.00.txt | 18:54 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2017/keystone.2017-01-10-18.00.log.html | 18:54 |
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| *** ianychoi has quit IRC | 19:00 | |
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| fungi | infra team, assemble! | 19:00 |
| clarkb | hello | 19:00 |
| SotK | o/ | 19:00 |
| * zara_the_lemur__ assembles | 19:00 | |
| AJaeger | o/ | 19:00 |
| jeblair | fungi: a whole HOUR? | 19:00 |
| pabelanger | rawr | 19:00 |
| fungi | might not be the _whole_ hour | 19:01 |
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| fungi | looks like i have the only topics on the agenda this week anyway | 19:01 |
| olaph | o/ | 19:01 |
| jeblair | [or portion thereof] | 19:01 |
| fungi | so probably can cut it short | 19:01 |
| fungi | so slack i only put one of my two topics on the agenda, and it's a hold-over from last week | 19:01 |
| jeblair | i probably should have put 'nodepool release' on the agenda | 19:01 |
| fungi | there's still time | 19:01 |
| fungi | i'll add it. i'm editing now | 19:02 |
| ianw | hi | 19:02 |
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| jeblair | fungi: okay, thx. i'm not logged in, so... you know... it'd take a few minutes | 19:02 |
| nibalizer | o/ | 19:03 |
| fungi | okay, now we have topics from fungi, jeblair and (by proxy) AJaeger | 19:04 |
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| fungi | #startmeeting infra | 19:04 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Jan 10 19:04:15 2017 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is fungi. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 19:04 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 19:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:04 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'infra' | 19:04 |
| fungi | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/InfraTeamMeeting#Agenda_for_next_meeting | 19:04 |
| fungi | #topic Announcements | 19:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Announcements (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:04 | |
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| fungi | i don't have any for this week, which is pretty sad | 19:04 |
| jlvillal | o/ | 19:04 |
| fungi | as always, feel free to hit me up with announcements you want included in future meetings | 19:04 |
| fungi | #topic Actions from last meeting | 19:05 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Actions from last meeting (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:05 | |
| fungi | #link http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2016/infra.2016-12-20-19.03.html | 19:05 |
| fungi | "1. (none)" | 19:05 |
| fungi | #topic Specs approval | 19:06 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Specs approval (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:06 | |
| *** galstrom is now known as galstrom_zzz | 19:06 | |
| fungi | we don't seem to have anything new up this week | 19:06 |
| fungi | #topic Priority Efforts: Nodepool: Use Zookeeper for Workers (jeblair) | 19:06 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Priority Efforts: Nodepool: Use Zookeeper for Workers (jeblair) (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:06 | |
| fungi | something something release something something | 19:06 |
| *** galstrom_zzz is now known as galstrom | 19:06 | |
| jeblair | hi! | 19:07 |
| fungi | is this spec effectively implemented now, btw? | 19:07 |
| morgan | fungi: orly | 19:07 |
| jeblair | fungi: huh, i reckon it is | 19:07 |
| jeblair | cause the next phase of nodepool work is covered in the zuulv3 spec | 19:08 |
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| fungi | i like crossing things off the priority efforts list, so feel free to propose a change marking this spec implemented | 19:08 |
| jeblair | #action jeblair mark http://specs.openstack.org/openstack-infra/infra-specs/specs/nodepool-zookeeper-workers.html implemented | 19:08 |
| fungi | danke | 19:08 |
| jeblair | to celebrate that, we also want to make a release | 19:09 |
| zaro | o/ | 19:09 |
| fungi | early and often | 19:09 |
| jeblair | we'll be asking people to upgrade to it and use the new zookeeper-based nodepool image builders | 19:09 |
| jeblair | so it will require some action on the part of nodepool operators | 19:09 |
| fungi | will this be a major version bump for nodepool? | 19:10 |
| jeblair | and i think once the release is out, we should start moving openstackci's default configuration to it | 19:10 |
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| pabelanger | ++ | 19:11 |
| jeblair | fungi: i think we wanted to hold version 1.0 for the zuulv3 implementation? | 19:11 |
| fungi | assuming puppet-openstackci takes care of setting up zk accordingly, that seems fine to me. though it's a disruptive upgrade insofar as state tracking will be lost right? | 19:11 |
| pabelanger | it doesn't today. But it is a simple install using an upstream puppet-zookeeper module | 19:12 |
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| fungi | probably qualifies as a minor version bump then, especially considering semver only really starts with your 1.0.0 release anyway and 0.x.x releases are a bit of an anything-goes scenario | 19:12 |
| clarkb | fungi: its disruptive beacuse we haven't written a data migraion between zk and mysql | 19:12 |
| jeblair | fungi: yes, we don't have an automatic migration; however, it's okay to lose this data though, nodepool will just start building new images | 19:12 |
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| fungi | okay, so planning for this as nodepool 0.4.0? | 19:13 |
| jeblair | yep | 19:13 |
| fungi | works for me | 19:13 |
| jeblair | we're looking to land one more change (deprecating the --no-builder cli option) | 19:14 |
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| jeblair | and then i'll write up a release announcement to make sure people know about the differences | 19:14 |
| fungi | is --no-deletes already deprecates? | 19:14 |
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| jeblair | i'll poke people in #openstack-infra to help review a draft | 19:14 |
| fungi | deprecated | 19:14 |
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| jeblair | fungi: the --no-deletes, --no-launches, --no-images, and --no-webapp were never documented because they were added due to our instance of nodepool being overwhelmed by capacity | 19:15 |
| jeblair | (--no-builder, otoh, was a real option) | 19:15 |
| jeblair | fungi: the others will be silently removed as part of the v3 effort | 19:15 |
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| fungi | okay | 19:15 |
| fungi | so non-public features don't really need deprecating | 19:16 |
| jeblair | i think --no-images is arleady gone | 19:16 |
| jeblair | that's my feeling | 19:16 |
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| pabelanger | yes, it has been removed | 19:16 |
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| fungi | cool, so we'll review the --no-builder deprecation, then 0.4.0 will be tagged and after that we can mark this priority spec implemented and focus on the zuul v3 spec for remaining nodepool-related bits? | 19:17 |
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| jeblair | fungi: yep | 19:17 |
| jeblair | (and work on that has started in the zuulv3 branch) | 19:18 |
| fungi | #info Once the --no-builder deprecation merges, nodepool 0.4.0 will be tagged; after that we can mark this priority spec implemented and focus on the zuulv3 branch for remaining nodepool-related bits. | 19:18 |
| fungi | anything else for this we need to cover in-meeting? | 19:19 |
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| jeblair | fungi: eot from me | 19:19 |
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| fungi | #topic Priority Efforts: Docs Publishing via AFS (jeblair, pabelanger, AJaeger) | 19:20 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Priority Efforts: Docs Publishing via AFS (jeblair, pabelanger, AJaeger) (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:20 | |
| fungi | seems like we're close to being ready to switch dns now? | 19:20 |
| AJaeger | Looking at http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-docs/2017-January/009440.html, only one point is missing: | 19:20 |
| AJaeger | Switching DNS! | 19:20 |
| fungi | i'd call that close to ready ;) | 19:21 |
| AJaeger | (and then testing that everything works) | 19:21 |
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| pabelanger | Ya, I was just looking at DNS | 19:21 |
| pabelanger | want to confirm our vhost was correct | 19:21 |
| AJaeger | so, anytime somebody wants to change DNS, go ahead and tell all of us ;) | 19:21 |
| jeblair | oh neat! | 19:21 |
| pabelanger | but can pull the trigger after the meeting | 19:21 |
| AJaeger | great, pabelanger ! | 19:22 |
| jeblair | fungi: looks like we might be about ready to strike another off the list ;) | 19:22 |
| fungi | #action pabelanger Switch DNS for docs.openstack.org from CloudSites to files01.openstack.org. | 19:22 |
| fungi | that look right? | 19:22 |
| jeblair | the docs traffic should be significantly higher than the developer docs traffic, so it's worth keeping an eye on performance | 19:22 |
| * AJaeger will sent an email as followup to their request from August - could somebody update the Racksapce ticket as well, please? | 19:22 | |
| AJaeger | See http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-infra/2016-August/004690.html | 19:22 |
| pabelanger | fungi: WFM | 19:23 |
| AJaeger | their= Cloudsites operators | 19:23 |
| jeblair | i recommend making the new ttl small (5 mins) at first so we can switch back quickly | 19:23 |
| fungi | ahh, yep. they'll want to know they can delete things | 19:23 |
| pabelanger | jeblair: agree | 19:23 |
| jeblair | (and if there are performance problems, we can either tune the files01 server or add files02 fairly quickly) | 19:23 |
| AJaeger | we still publish to *both*, so not directly deleting - but we should give them a heads up | 19:23 |
| clarkb | AJaeger: after about a week or so we can stop publishing to both? | 19:24 |
| jeblair | yeah, we should let this stabilize, then remove cloudsites publishing, then tell them we're done | 19:24 |
| fungi | #action AJaeger follow up to http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-infra/2016-August/004690.html letting them know we're ready for site deletion. | 19:24 |
| AJaeger | clarkb: yes, one week should be enough. | 19:24 |
| jeblair | 1week sounds good to me | 19:24 |
| fungi | wfm | 19:25 |
| pabelanger | TTL dropped to 5mins on docs.o.o | 19:25 |
| AJaeger | ok, then let's do it ;) | 19:25 |
| AJaeger | Thanks! | 19:25 |
| fungi | thanks pabelanger | 19:25 |
| jeblair | pabelanger: you mean you just dropped the current ttl? | 19:26 |
| pabelanger | jeblair: yes, from 60 to 5 | 19:26 |
| pabelanger | still confirming vhost settings on files.o.o | 19:26 |
| jeblair | i would have recommended keeping 60 on the current address | 19:26 |
| fungi | not strictly necessary, just increases the rate at which people will hit the new ip address once we switch that | 19:26 |
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| fungi | so yes we may see a much more rapid adoption of the new server | 19:27 |
| pabelanger | okay, I can revert here | 19:27 |
| jeblair | by doing that, and then switching to a shorter ttl for the new address, we get the luxury of slowly ramping up traffic over 1 hour, but being able to switch back in 5 minutes. now we will get all of the new traffic within 5 minutes, so if things go bad, they will go bad quickly. | 19:27 |
| pabelanger | ack, I have reverted to 60 TTL. IP address has not changed yet | 19:29 |
| jeblair | cool | 19:29 |
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| fungi | anything else we need to cover on this priority effort? | 19:30 |
| fungi | hopefully next week we can discuss marking it implemented | 19:31 |
| AJaeger | and then I'll ask for https ;) | 19:31 |
| AJaeger | but yes, let's move on. | 19:31 |
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| fungi | AJaeger: i have a couple certs i need to renew within the next few weeks and a couple more from a few months ago i need to expense, so happy to tack docs.o.o on while i'm at it ;) | 19:31 |
| fungi | #action fungi Obtain docs.openstack.org X.509 certificate. | 19:32 |
| AJaeger | fungi, please do! A week or two longer does not hurt | 19:32 |
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| AJaeger | fungi: and developer.openstack.org a swell, please | 19:32 |
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| fungi | added both to my to do list | 19:32 |
| jeblair | also, ipv6? | 19:32 |
| fungi | #action fungi Obtain developer.openstack.org X.509 certificate. | 19:32 |
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| fungi | we'll have ipv6 from files01.o.o automatically right? | 19:33 |
| jlvillal | I'm guessing don't use letsencrypt then. | 19:33 |
| jeblair | derp, yes. | 19:33 |
| fungi | jlvillal: not until it stabilizes, no | 19:33 |
| clarkb | if its a cname yes | 19:33 |
| jlvillal | Ah, okay | 19:33 |
| AJaeger | files01 has IPv6 | 19:33 |
| * jlvillal likes the dns-01 auth method with the dehydrated client | 19:34 | |
| fungi | jlvillal: worth revisiting next year though, maybe | 19:34 |
| fungi | catch me outside the meeting for various reasons we've shied away from le so far | 19:34 |
| jlvillal | okay | 19:34 |
| fungi | any other docs-on-afs issues need discussing today? | 19:35 |
| AJaeger | not that I know | 19:35 |
| AJaeger | thanks | 19:35 |
| fungi | #topic PTG planning (fungi) | 19:36 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "PTG planning (fungi) (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:36 | |
| fungi | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/PTG/Pike/Etherpads | 19:36 |
| fungi | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/infra-ptg-pike | 19:36 |
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| fungi | i primed it with the infra priority specs i don't expect to drop off the list in the next couple weeks | 19:37 |
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| fungi | but anyone who expects to attend at least monday/tuesday of the pike ptg in atlanta next month feel free to add ideas | 19:37 |
| fungi | i expect to handle this in a mostly unconference fashion like we've done with design summit fridays previously | 19:38 |
| jeblair | i'm pushing to get zuulv3 runnable by then with the hope that we can start alpha-testing it against the zuul project during the ptg | 19:38 |
| clarkb | I would like to have a semi scheduled braindumping on debugging test failures and openstack | 19:38 |
| jeblair | so, hoping that we are able to do some installation/configuration work on it | 19:38 |
| fungi | i personally expect to spend a lot of those two days on zuul v3 mainly because it's our highest-priority ongoing effort right now | 19:39 |
| clarkb | with the idea that devs from other projects can drop in and hopefully learn some useful things about how we go about that | 19:39 |
| fungi | but there's room to do other stuff too, obviously | 19:39 |
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| fungi | clarkb: that offers a great catch-all for vertical contributors who show up early in the week, so good addition | 19:39 |
| fungi | worth noting the qa team is running in parallel to us on monday/tuesday | 19:40 |
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| clarkb | ya I brought it up with them too and they liked the idea. Probably we just need to set a rough time for when a subset of both groups convere in a place that is advertised to toehr devs to drop in | 19:40 |
| fungi | so anything that needs their coordination should probably be scheduled with oomichi | 19:41 |
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| fungi | if it's time-bounded then the fishbowl venue seems appropriate | 19:42 |
| clarkb | I think its less about being time bound and more like office hours. Let people know that others interested in helping with such things are going to be around and willing to help with it | 19:42 |
| fungi | ttx: not sure how you planned to schedule slots for the fishbowl, but maybe linking from the ptg etherpads list would be a good idea? | 19:42 |
| clarkb | but maybe fishbowl is best fit for that? | 19:43 |
| jeblair | clarkb: maybe talk with some horizontal ptls to try to get them on board and push people to the session; we've not had great success with people just dropping into infra sessions at summits at least. | 19:43 |
| ttx | I was thinking setting up an ethercalc instance | 19:43 |
| fungi | (also entirely likely the scheduling mechanics for the fishbowl are already defined and i wasn't paying enough attention) | 19:43 |
| fungi | ttx: excellent excuse to start running ethercalc! ;) | 19:43 |
| ttx | I know, right :) | 19:43 |
| clarkb | jeblair: good point, I can do that | 19:43 |
| jeblair | ttx: ++ | 19:44 |
| * fungi has been looking for an excuse for having ethercalc.o.o | 19:44 | |
| ttx | That will definitely help to keep that etherpad under control | 19:44 |
| fungi | i'm happy to help puppeting that, seems like we can mostly just crib from our puppet-etherpad repo | 19:44 |
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| fungi | probably showing my age, but i like that the name reminds me somewhat of visicalc | 19:46 |
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| fungi | okay, so anyway, people seem to be adding to the pad. that's what i was looking for. i'll also announce it to the ml right after the meeting | 19:47 |
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| fungi | #action fungi announce the infra ptg pike etherpad to relevant mailing lists | 19:48 |
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| fungi | #topic Repo renaming (fungi) | 19:49 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Repo renaming (fungi) (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:49 | |
| fungi | carried over from last week where everyone seemed to be asleep | 19:49 |
| *** rossella_ has joined #openstack-meeting | 19:50 | |
| fungi | we have four repos up for renaming, split across two project-config cganges | 19:50 |
| fungi | changes | 19:50 |
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| fungi | this week is a dead week in the release schedule | 19:50 |
| fungi | #link https://releases.openstack.org/ocata/schedule.html | 19:51 |
| fungi | anybody up for a repo renaming maintenance, say... friday? | 19:51 |
| clarkb | I will be around, Friday is fine with me | 19:51 |
| pabelanger | as will I | 19:51 |
| fungi | 20:00 utc? | 19:51 |
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| fungi | maybe that overlaps lunch for west-coasters | 19:52 |
| fungi | 21:00 utc? | 19:52 |
| pabelanger | either is fine for me | 19:52 |
| ianw | thu i could help, but fri puts it in sat morning, but looks like enough anyway | 19:52 |
| clarkb | both times are good for me ( will just eat early or late) | 19:52 |
| jeblair | i'll be around as backup but would prefer not to drive | 19:52 |
| fungi | ianw: happy to have your help if a little later is better | 19:52 |
| fungi | ianw: or earlier so you can do it on friday? we could do north american thursday afternoon | 19:53 |
| fungi | dhellmann: ^ would that be painful this week, to have a brief gerrit outage and maybe a couple hours (your) thursday afternoon where you should avoid approving new releases? | 19:54 |
| ianw | that works for me | 19:54 |
| dhellmann | fungi : this is probably the best time to do it before the ptg, so we can make it work | 19:54 |
| ttx | dhellmann: +1 | 19:55 |
| fungi | dhellmann: that was my thinking too. it's teh last dead week in the schedule other than r-2 | 19:55 |
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| dhellmann | given the compressed rc period this cycle, we're not going to have a lot of dead time until march | 19:55 |
| dhellmann | yeah, r-2 is during the rc period, so not a great time to take things offline | 19:56 |
| fungi | any objections to, say, 20:00 utc thursday (apac friday morning)? | 19:56 |
| dhellmann | that time works for me | 19:56 |
| ianw | +1 | 19:56 |
| fungi | i don't know how zomg-early that is for you ianw, feel free to tell me if it should be later | 19:56 |
| ianw | 6am, all good | 19:57 |
| clarkb | sounds good | 19:57 |
| fungi | ianw: you want to send a maintenance announcement to the -dev ml this morning? | 19:57 |
| ianw | can do | 19:57 |
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| fungi | brief outage between 20:00-20:30 utc | 19:57 |
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| fungi | #info The Gerrit service on review.openstack.org will be offline briefly for project renaming between 20:00 and 20:30 UTC this Thursday, January 12, 2017. | 19:58 |
| fungi | thanks ianw! | 19:58 |
| fungi | #topic Open Discussion | 19:58 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:59 | |
| jlvillal | Review request for gerritbot patch to add the branch name to the IRC message that announces submitted and merged patches: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/417450/ | 19:59 |
| jlvillal | :) | 19:59 |
| fungi | we have a minute left ;) | 19:59 |
| olaph | I am hoping an additional core can find the time to review https://review.openstack.org/#/c/407100/ | 19:59 |
| pabelanger | I'm still working on the zuul-launcher patch for openstackci.... I promise this week | 19:59 |
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| clarkb | zaro: you need more reviews on gerrit things for the upgrade? | 19:59 |
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| fungi | aaaaaaand, we're out of time. thanks everyone! discussions can continue in #openstack-infra, or stay tuned for the tc meeting up next here in #openstack meeting! | 20:00 |
| clarkb | zaro: maybe reping people in #openstack-infra for that so we make sure it doesn't get lost in the busyness | 20:00 |
| fungi | #endmeeting | 20:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open discusion (Meeting topic: congressteammeeting)" | 20:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Jan 10 20:00:13 2017 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 20:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2017/infra.2017-01-10-19.04.html | 20:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2017/infra.2017-01-10-19.04.txt | 20:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2017/infra.2017-01-10-19.04.log.html | 20:00 |
| ttx | alright | 20:00 |
| *** olaph has left #openstack-meeting | 20:00 | |
| thingee | o/ | 20:00 |
| ttx | anyone here for TC meeting ? | 20:00 |
| EmilienM | o/ | 20:00 |
| amrith | ./ | 20:00 |
| johnsom | o/ | 20:00 |
| dhellmann | o/ | 20:00 |
| ttx | dims, dtroyer, flaper87, fungi, mordred, mtreinish, sdague: around ? | 20:01 |
| ttx | johnthetubaguy and stevemar will miss this one IIRC | 20:01 |
| dims | o/ | 20:01 |
| sdague | o/ | 20:01 |
| mtreinish | o/ | 20:01 |
| fungi | ooh, yep. still around ;) | 20:01 |
| dtroyer | o/ | 20:01 |
| ttx | #startmeeting tc | 20:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Jan 10 20:01:23 2017 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is ttx. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 20:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 20:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'tc' | 20:01 |
| ttx | Hi everyone! | 20:01 |
| ttx | Our agenda for today is at: | 20:01 |
| ttx | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/TechnicalCommittee | 20:01 |
| * edleafe slinks to the side of the room | 20:01 | |
| mrhillsman | o/ | 20:01 |
| ttx | #topic Add extra-atc nominations for Trove | 20:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Add extra-atc nominations for Trove (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:01 | |
| ttx | #link https://review.openstack.org/414764 | 20:01 |
| ttx | The latest rev looks good to me | 20:01 |
| ttx | If you pile up approvals we can merge it now | 20:02 |
| dims | +1 | 20:02 |
| * amrith is happy to answer questions about that if required | 20:02 | |
| ttx | Sounds like it has majority support and no more objections now | 20:02 |
| * ttx approved and moves on | 20:02 | |
| EmilienM | ship it! | 20:02 |
| amrith | that was easy! | 20:03 |
| ttx | flaper87: yt? | 20:03 |
| dims | amrith : thanks for being a mentor | 20:03 |
| ttx | #topic Reference doc for new language additions | 20:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Reference doc for new language additions (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:03 | |
| amrith | thx dims | 20:03 |
| ttx | #link https://review.openstack.org/398875 | 20:03 |
| ttx | Was counting on flaper87 to present this | 20:03 |
| ttx | looks good enough to me for an initial version of the requirements | 20:04 |
| ttx | we can discuss the merits of subsequent improvements as separate changes | 20:04 |
| flaper87 | o/ | 20:04 |
| ttx | here he is | 20:04 |
| flaper87 | sorry, couple of mins late | 20:04 |
| ttx | flaper87: floor is yours | 20:04 |
| sigmavirus | o/ | 20:04 |
| flaper87 | yeah, so, I've updated the patch and addressed the latest comments | 20:04 |
| flaper87 | I've submitted another patch to fix the last comments from yday | 20:04 |
| ttx | saw a subsequent patch already, which is good -- shall be a living document anyway | 20:04 |
| flaper87 | (or was that today?) | 20:04 |
| flaper87 | yeah | 20:05 |
| flaper87 | I just noticed Graham's last comment and I can address that | 20:05 |
| EmilienM | flaper87: excellent work on this first draft | 20:05 |
| fungi | cool, i wanted to see the in-meeting discussion covering the most recent inline comments before adding my rc vote | 20:05 |
| flaper87 | but sounds like something we can fix in subsequent patches, unless I missed something | 20:06 |
| ttx | comments, remaining objections ? | 20:06 |
| thingee | fungi +1 | 20:06 |
| dims | +1 to living document + patches | 20:06 |
| fungi | i still feel like it's a bit proscriptive/rigorous, but i guess it could be a lot worse so happy with this as a starting point | 20:06 |
| flaper87 | EmilienM: danke | 20:06 |
| mordred | o/ (sorry I'm late - in an all-day offsite, but am lurking) | 20:07 |
| flaper87 | flaper87: yeah, FWIW (this was part of the very first patch) I intentionally started with a higher bar | 20:07 |
| thingee | flaper87 please enlighten us with regards to mugsie's comments | 20:07 |
| fungi | i like to also consider it as compliment/counterpoint to dtroyer's cti patch for go | 20:07 |
| dtroyer | re Graham's comment, I think the working from earlier regarding ensuring the user/operators consistency of experience is what is important here... | 20:07 |
| flaper87 | yeah, I think there might be a missunderstanding with my wording | 20:07 |
| ttx | I read it as we need to provide equivalents, that doesn't mean everyone needs to use them | 20:07 |
| flaper87 | the crux of that section is guaranteeing the ocmpatibility from an ops perspective | 20:07 |
| ttx | (but they probably need a good reason not to) | 20:08 |
| flaper87 | either by the support of already existing language features | 20:08 |
| mugsie_ | My point about the requirements was that we may need more than just these 2 libs to get the operator consitancy | 20:08 |
| flaper87 | or by implementing the required libs | 20:08 |
| *** galstrom_zzz is now known as galstrom | 20:08 | |
| dtroyer | fungi: I see this as the prereq/enabler for the CTI doc | 20:08 |
| flaper87 | mugsie_: if we need more, we might need to add them there | 20:08 |
| fungi | dtroyer: so you see this as compatible (at least in spirit) with your end of the effort? | 20:08 |
| fungi | seemed that way to me, but wanted to be sure it's not at odds | 20:08 |
| flaper87 | The goal is to not break ops or other compatibility by introducing a new language | 20:08 |
| dtroyer | fungi: I wrote the golang cti doc with this in mind, and think it is already pretty close | 20:08 |
| fungi | awesome | 20:09 |
| ttx | sounds like it's at a stage where it's simpler to propose improvements as separate changes | 20:09 |
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| dtroyer | ttx ++ | 20:09 |
| dims | ++ttx | 20:09 |
| flaper87 | mugsie_: would you agree with this not being a blocker ? | 20:09 |
| mugsie_ | Not a blocker - we can amend it | 20:10 |
| *** AndChat388401 is now known as stevemar_droid | 20:10 | |
| flaper87 | mugsie_: awesome, thanks. I appreciate your input on this | 20:10 |
| mugsie_ | It's not the concept, just how it is stated right now | 20:10 |
| ttx | ok cool | 20:10 |
| stevemar_droid | Here | 20:10 |
| ttx | look! a stevemar | 20:10 |
| stevemar_droid | Here-ish, mostly lurking. | 20:10 |
| thingee | oh no stevemar_droid turned into a droid! | 20:10 |
| flaper87 | ttx: a droid stevemar | 20:11 |
| fungi | we haven't added a second general-purpose language (nodejs aside i don't consider js a general-purpose language) before, so i fully expect this will still need a lot of fine-tuning to meet reality | 20:11 |
| ttx | this is not the droid we are looking for | 20:11 |
| stevemar_droid | :) | 20:11 |
| flaper87 | fungi: it will need for sure | 20:11 |
| ttx | Alright, we have enough votes... Any last minute objection ? | 20:11 |
| * fungi just wants to see the "tc hates go" crowd eat their hats | 20:12 | |
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| flaper87 | fungi: ++ | 20:12 |
| dims | LOL +1 fungi | 20:12 |
| ttx | I just want to get the constructive effort started | 20:12 |
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| mtreinish | fungi: heh, we can still hate go and approve this :) | 20:12 |
| smcginnis | mtreinish: :) | 20:13 |
| flaper87 | yeah, I'm happy to work with ppl interested in go in this process | 20:13 |
| dtroyer | flaper87: that work is underway... | 20:13 |
| ttx | OK, last minute to object before I approve | 20:13 |
| flaper87 | I'm not saying I'm going to code in go but I'd like to walk through this process | 20:13 |
| stevemar_droid | flaper87, I'm sure dtroyer will help | 20:13 |
| flaper87 | dtroyer: yup | 20:13 |
| flaper87 | dtroyer: by all means, feel free to ping me and keep me in the loop | 20:13 |
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| ttx | ok, it's in | 20:14 |
| flaper87 | w000h000 | 20:14 |
| ttx | thanks for driving this flaper87 | 20:14 |
| stevemar_droid | Nice | 20:14 |
| flaper87 | go go go | 20:14 |
| flaper87 | my pleasure | 20:14 |
| EmilienM | flaper87: thx again :) | 20:14 |
| dtroyer | Thanks flaper87 | 20:14 |
| dims | flaper87 burning up karma :) | 20:14 |
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| ttx | #topic Driver teams: establish new "driver team" concept (or not) | 20:14 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Driver teams: establish new "driver team" concept (or not) (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:14 | |
| ttx | stevemar posted the results of the survey question we asked driver maintainers: | 20:14 |
| ttx | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2017-January/109855.html | 20:15 |
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| ttx | Let's use the voice-turn system to avoid speaking over one another. | 20:15 |
| dims | nice work on that stevemar | 20:15 |
| fungi | unsurprisingly, everyone wants everything ;) | 20:15 |
| ttx | I can summarize my position first | 20:15 |
| ttx | At this stage pretty much everyone agrees that we need to fix driver visibility on openstack website properties | 20:15 |
| ttx | And that it is the main and urgent issue to solve | 20:15 |
| ttx | There is still much disagreement on whether we /also/ need to change governance to consider driver teams as official OpenStack teams | 20:15 |
| ttx | On one side people wanting to be inclusive and welcoming of all forms of contributing to OpenStack success | 20:15 |
| ttx | On the other side people seeing it as unnecessary, potentially diluting openness values and difficult to reverse | 20:16 |
| ttx | I feel like the continuing debate between the two distracts us from starting (and fully focusing on) fixing the main and urgent issue | 20:16 |
| * fungi raises hand to retort at some point | 20:16 | |
| flaper87 | o/ | 20:16 |
| dtroyer | o/ | 20:16 |
| ttx | Once we fix that main and urgent issue, we'll be in a much better position to assess whether we still need a governance change or not | 20:16 |
| ttx | So I'd like to add a third option. We have: | 20:16 |
| ttx | 1/ Add driver teams now: https://review.openstack.org/403829 | 20:16 |
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| ttx | 2/ Clearly exclude driver teams (unless developed as a level playing field) now: https://review.openstack.org/403836 | 20:16 |
| ttx | I'd add: | 20:16 |
| ttx | 3/ Fix driver visibility first, table the governance choice until that's done, and see what's still needed then | 20:16 |
| ttx | In the indicative vote last week neither (1) nor (2) had a clear majority, so I feel like making a call now either way would be a bad decision | 20:17 |
| ttx | Discussing it again next week would just delay starting to work on fixing the main issue | 20:17 |
| ttx | which is why at this point I support (3) | 20:17 |
| ttx | </endposition> | 20:17 |
| ttx | fungi: your turn | 20:17 |
| ttx | next flaper87, dtroyer | 20:17 |
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| fungi | just wanted to interject that i'm happy to liaise with the marketplace devs on improvements on that end | 20:18 |
| fungi | there were some indications in the survey results of improvement people wanted to see | 20:18 |
| fungi | we should probably try to gather more | 20:18 |
| ttx | ok, flaper87 ? | 20:19 |
| flaper87 | yup, writing | 20:19 |
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| ttx | remember to raise your hand if you want voice | 20:19 |
| * ttx pipes some interlude music while flaper87 types | 20:20 | |
| flaper87 | So, as I've stated elsewhere, I believe including the drivers team is important. Drivers *are* an important part of our community. While I think we should fix the discoverability, I also think we can work on these 2 things in parallel. Therefore, I'd prefer us to take option 1 | 20:20 |
| sdague | o/ | 20:20 |
| flaper87 | if people happen to not like that, then I guess I can live by #3 | 20:20 |
| stevemar_droid | o/ | 20:20 |
| thingee | o/ | 20:20 |
| * flaper87 done | 20:20 | |
| ttx | ok, dtroyer now | 20:20 |
| * dims just listens | 20:20 | |
| ttx | next sdague stevemar thingee | 20:20 |
| dtroyer | The survey stevemar sent highlighted something for me, namely that the visibility and horizontal team access is what appears to be the highest priority. It also highlighted how everything that appears on an OpenStack site reflects on the project, independant of actual status. | 20:20 |
| * edleafe sits on his hands | 20:20 | |
| dtroyer | I think it is very important for us to include the measure of confidence and quality for those things that appear, namely that regualt CI comparable with offical projects is performed for everything that we endorse, even unofficially, by posting it to an openstack.org site. | 20:21 |
| dtroyer | I would now prefer to persue #3, followed by #1 if we do not feel we can enforce our quality requirements without a governance action. | 20:21 |
| * dtroyer done | 20:21 | |
| ttx | sdague | 20:22 |
| ttx | next stevemar, thingee | 20:22 |
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| sdague | I think I'm largely with dtroyer on this. #3 seems very reasonable way to address the major current friction points | 20:22 |
| sdague | I would like to figure out if we can manage to do discovery with some kind of quality assurance without inventing new governance, because that gives more flexibility | 20:23 |
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| sdague | especially because otherwise it seems like TC is going to be evaluating lots of driver team applications | 20:23 |
| sdague | </end> for now | 20:23 |
| ttx | stevemar: you're on | 20:23 |
| ttx | next thingee | 20:23 |
| dhellmann | o/ | 20:23 |
| stevemar_droid | Even if we have a consistent place to list the drivers, there are many questions about what to include and the criteria for inclusion | 20:24 |
| stevemar_droid | And that seems like the same questions we'll have about what makes them official | 20:24 |
| stevemar_droid | I like sdagues last point though | 20:24 |
| * stevemar_droid done | 20:24 | |
| ttx | thingee now | 20:24 |
| ttx | next dhellmann | 20:24 |
| thingee | flaper87 as I mentioned in the review, I found your position vague of it not being enough to fix discoverability. Can you please elaborate why it's not enough. | 20:25 |
| * fungi has a response for stevemar_droid's question when the floor is available | 20:25 | |
| ttx | flaper87: feel free to interject | 20:25 |
| dims | o/ | 20:25 |
| flaper87 | thingee: sure, so, I believe that doesn't answer the question of whether we believe drivers are important or not | 20:25 |
| flaper87 | discoverability is a critical thing but it doesn't solve the issue of including drivers | 20:25 |
| thingee | why? it's making them visible. Highlighting them in a way of being compatible. | 20:26 |
| flaper87 | Based on stevemar_droid's summary, there's a feeling that drivers should be included in openstack | 20:26 |
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| flaper87 | I personally feel they should be part of the openstack community, officially | 20:26 |
| thingee | again I view your position purely from a development perspective. These developers are motivated because of a paycheck from a company that is happy they have that compatibility stamp | 20:26 |
| thingee | done | 20:26 |
| ttx | dhellmann: your turn | 20:26 |
| dhellmann | I’m disappointed that the discussion about this issue detoured from the concern about community membership and devolved into concerns about companies somehow taking advantage of the community and orthogonal issues like discoverability that could be solved independently. | 20:27 |
| ttx | next dims | 20:27 |
| flaper87 | thingee: I prefer not to think about "these developers" that way, fwiw. They are still contributing | 20:27 |
| dhellmann | I’m especially disappointed that we’re keeping a rule that enables project teams to exclude contributors from participating fully in the community by stripping them of ATC status. | 20:27 |
| dhellmann | I don’t like the image that projects of our community. | 20:27 |
| ttx | err next fungi then dims | 20:27 |
| dhellmann | But I want to thank the project teams that recognize the importance of drivers and have constructive relationships with their driver authors for setting a good example. | 20:27 |
| dhellmann | done | 20:27 |
| * flaper87 agrees with dhellmann | 20:27 | |
| ttx | fungi: ? | 20:28 |
| ttx | then dims | 20:28 |
| fungi | just wanted to respond to stevemar_droid's concern about identifying supported drivers: that should be up to individual project teams. just as definitions of what a "deiver" is differ from project to project, so should standards for support | 20:28 |
| fungi | we (openstack as a whole) just need to make sure we provide a place where they can be registered and maintained with support information in a consistent and discoverable manner | 20:29 |
| fungi | s/deiver/driver/ | 20:30 |
| stevemar_droid | fungi something like whether or not we require CI should be consistent though, I think? | 20:30 |
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| fungi | it hasn't been in the past | 20:30 |
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| mtreinish | fungi: well it's a per project thing now | 20:30 |
| mtreinish | some projects require it, others don't | 20:30 |
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| ttx | dims: your turn, then ttx | 20:31 |
| fungi | neutron and cinder and ironic and manila have had distinctly differing opinions on what is needed for driver support | 20:31 |
| dims | who is going to gate-keep the discoverability aspects? (which drivers pass a minimum bar for being included in docs etc, when to nuke things when things go south)? is that the foundation staff? i second dhellmann 's sentiment as well | 20:31 |
| thingee | stevemar https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/driverlog-validation | 20:31 |
| dims | 3/ is obviously an easy choice, but prefer 1/ and 3/ | 20:31 |
| dims | done | 20:32 |
| thingee | dims currently it's the docs team rule. that needs to be addressed as I've repeated numerously | 20:32 |
| thingee | the market place is driven by a community repo that has a yaml file today. | 20:32 |
| dims | thingee : understood | 20:32 |
| dims | back to you ttx | 20:33 |
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| ttx | So the reason why I proposed #3 is that we passed 7-6 votes in the past and that never stood the test of time. If we can't get a stronger majority to support one option, it's probably a bad idea to choose at that precise moment | 20:33 |
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| ttx | and I don't want us to discuss this question every week for the next two months | 20:33 |
| ttx | but not answering is not that much better, I admit | 20:34 |
| stevemar_droid | Deciding to not make a decision counts as making a decision, right? :) | 20:34 |
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| ttx | What do you propose to make progress ? Another indicative vote with the 3 options in ? | 20:34 |
| flaper87 | If we go with 3, I'd like there to be a commitment to review this once the discoverability issue is fixed | 20:35 |
| ttx | (as time passes I don't see the lines changing, I actually see the lines strengthening) | 20:35 |
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| ttx | (And I still sit firmly on the fence) | 20:35 |
| dhellmann | I would like to hear a proposal from the folks who object to driver teams that solves the community membership issue. | 20:36 |
| * dims notes that /3 does not really need a vote from us. it can be implemented right away | 20:36 | |
| ttx | flaper87: oh, definitely. That is what #3 is about | 20:36 |
| fungi | the resolution option with no special driver team provisions is basically equivalent to not making a decision, as it's the current status quo | 20:36 |
| thingee | dims it does need a vote. it means we table this conversation and wait for results | 20:36 |
| fungi | (if you develop drivers in a level and open fashion, you can apply as a normal project team) | 20:36 |
| dtroyer | ttx: can we break down other bits that might be individually solvable like the discoverability, such as handling ATC status? | 20:36 |
| flaper87 | so, do we have volunteers to work on the discoverability issue ? | 20:37 |
| thingee | flaper87 me | 20:37 |
| stevemar_droid | ++ dtroyer | 20:37 |
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| ttx | dhellmann: I guess the POV of that group is taht there is no community membership issue to be solved ? | 20:37 |
| dims | thingee : talking about what's visible to folks outside of TC | 20:37 |
| flaper87 | thingee: so, are you against #1 entirely or just against #1 before the discoverability issue is fixed ? | 20:37 |
| ttx | dtroyer: by default ATC status would be handled through extra-atc mechanism | 20:37 |
| fungi | atc status is generally solvable already if project teams want to list driver devs as "extra atcs" in governance. though it merits repeating that being an atc just means you get to vote in elections. it's not "free passes to conferences" | 20:38 |
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| dhellmann | ttx: I don't understand that. These folks are part of the electorate today. When the status expires because their repo is no longer "official" they may not be. Am I really the only one who considers that an issue? | 20:38 |
| flaper87 | dhellmann: no, I do | 20:38 |
| dhellmann | fungi : I have serious doubts that teams that already can't work with driver authors are going to go that route. | 20:38 |
| flaper87 | hence my strong preference for #1 and addressing this issue right away | 20:38 |
| fungi | dhellmann: well, that is in part oslved by the deletions list in governance. if they continue not contributing to official projects for a year they cease being atcs | 20:38 |
| dtroyer | dhellmann: no. but driver teams as first-class status doesn't make sense to me at all and is not the right solution | 20:38 |
| jroll | it's odd to me, to think that a project team would spend the time to mark a driver as supported, and to give those folks extra ATCs, but not allow those drivers in tree | 20:39 |
| thingee | dtroyer +1 | 20:39 |
| jroll | the time spent to vet those drivers as supported is most of the effort to keep them in tree | 20:39 |
| jroll | s/most/much | 20:39 |
| thingee | jroll so to clear something up, some won't today. That's a whole other issue though | 20:39 |
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| mtreinish | jroll: yeah, that's what I was thinking. Although there is the longer term maint. commitment | 20:39 |
| dhellmann | fungi : yes, that's right. We're telling them their contributions don't count unless they work on "common" aspects of the parent project. I don't think that's a reasonable position for us to take, as a community. We expect too many contributors to spend too much time on things. I don't think it's realistic. | 20:40 |
| jroll | right, so I'm not sure that those things will help | 20:40 |
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| johnsom | Our issue with drivers in tree is we don't have the licenses/equipment to fully validate and maintain them. | 20:40 |
| thingee | jroll I think for some projects it's because no one wants to step up to begin with to setup the validation to say what is compatible | 20:40 |
| thingee | jroll it's my belief once we help projects with a system that this will continue to be a solution to be taken over | 20:40 |
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| ttx | dhellmann: if you take the position of who has control over the driver development, it makes some sense though. Would those driver teams really defer to the TC ? Do we want them to ? | 20:41 |
| thingee | this comes from my perspective of spending time on this issue since the summit in tokyo | 20:41 |
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| jroll | thingee: I guess my point is: for ironic, I'm not willing to call something supported unless they have CI running. which means they can be in tree. so this changes nothing for ironic drivers. | 20:41 |
| dhellmann | ttx: I don't care about their motivation. I care about giving them a choice. They have no choice today. | 20:41 |
| sdague | stevemar_droid: did we get a sense from the survey about how many folks that were only working on drivers were concerned about ATC status? | 20:41 |
| jroll | s/point/perspective/ maybe | 20:41 |
| ttx | hmm, too many parallel discussions, we'll return back to voicing | 20:41 |
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| flaper87 | dhellmann: ++ | 20:41 |
| * jroll shuts up | 20:41 | |
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| flaper87 | dhellmann: ttx fwiw, I also care about us having a clear stand on this | 20:42 |
| ttx | dhellmann: it is a good point | 20:42 |
| jgriffith | sdague +1 | 20:42 |
| dims | sdague : i asked that question before. but then i think that we should do the right thing ... | 20:42 |
| stevemar_droid | sdagues not really | 20:42 |
| jroll | stevemar_droid: sdague: my take on the survey was that very few driver maintainers chimed in. it was mostly (ex-)ptls | 20:42 |
| thingee | jroll no it's fine to discuss this. so I think the next step is highlighting these vendors in the market place. I'm not even sure if you recommend to driver maintainers to take advantage of docs.o.o | 20:42 |
| fungi | stevemar_droid: sdague: and while i consider being able to vote in elections very important, any idea if the people who expressed an interest in atc merely saw it as a way to get other unrelated perks (like conference registration discounts, which have already gone away)? | 20:43 |
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| ttx | ok, one question at a time, first that one from fungi | 20:43 |
| jroll | thingee: I do, for the drivers in tree. the ones out of tree can't use docs.o.o, no matter what they do, which makes me sad. | 20:43 |
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| jroll | sorry ttx | 20:43 |
| thingee | jroll right so option 3 is to fix those out-of-tree drivers to be included in docs | 20:44 |
| ttx | next I have one for dhellmann | 20:44 |
| stevemar_droid | fungi, I suspect that was the initial reasoning for it. We already have low turn out rate for some elections I believe? | 20:44 |
| fungi | my question was mostly rhetorical. i doubt we have statistics to support any answer | 20:44 |
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| fungi | but thanks stevemar_droid | 20:44 |
| * dhellmann awaits the question from ttx | 20:45 | |
| stevemar_droid | fungi, sorry | 20:45 |
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| ttx | dhellmann: my question would be -- what do you propose we do now ? Try to pass the driver teams proposal using a weak majority ? | 20:45 |
| ttx | I proposed #3 because it's been a few weeks now and the split doesn't fix itself, only gets worse | 20:46 |
| sdague | o/ (for when voicing comes around) | 20:46 |
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| ttx | I'm happy to defer to any strong majority on this topic, but we don't have one | 20:46 |
| ttx | and I don't see the lines moving. So... what now? | 20:47 |
| dhellmann | ttx: I would like to see a real proposal that addresses the membership issue from someone who opposes it. Because if there isn't another way to do that, then I want people to reconsider the motivation for making the rule change and reconsider their positions in light of that, which seems to not have been on anyone's mind during this discussion. | 20:47 |
| ttx | to be clear, the membership issue being, people currently voting that won't be able to vote in the near future | 20:47 |
| dhellmann | yes | 20:47 |
| ttx | (due to a decision outside of their reach about team membership) | 20:48 |
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| dhellmann | yes | 20:48 |
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| dtroyer | which IIUC we alrady have a mechanism, if non-ideal, to handle that | 20:48 |
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| dhellmann | I have no expectation of the neutron team exercising that option, so I don't consider it a serious solution. | 20:48 |
| jroll | dhellmann: +1 | 20:48 |
| ttx | Note: doesn't have to be the neutron team | 20:48 |
| jroll | (the ironic team likely wouldn't either) | 20:48 |
| fungi | a related example is the fuel team retiring repos which had contributors that weren't contributing to other repos (even other parts of fuel) | 20:49 |
| ttx | can be the TC itself | 20:49 |
| dtroyer | is that the only option for networking-* comtributors to get extra-ATC status? | 20:49 |
| sdague | but the voting question doesn't seem to be in the top #3 list of concerns by existing driver teams | 20:49 |
| dtroyer | ttx: that's what I though | 20:49 |
| dtroyer | t | 20:49 |
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| sdague | The docs thing keeps coming up, it would be interesting to fix that as a concrete issue | 20:49 |
| ttx | yes, nobody ever said 'I want to be able to continue to vote' | 20:49 |
| jroll | how would the TC decide which drivers should get extra-atc? all? ones that 'work'? | 20:49 |
| dhellmann | sdague : I honestly didn't ask them. I think our governance is broken right now, because a team can kick out members of the community who have been active contributors. | 20:49 |
| flaper87 | mtreinish: sdague was checking the patch and noticed your votes are missing. Is that because you're on the fence or just wanted to have this discussion first ? (I know ttx is on the fence) | 20:50 |
| ttx | dhellmann: and we can recover them if we want | 20:50 |
| fungi | dhellmann: to take jroll's point, ironic may remove drivers from the orinic project (for legitimate reasons) which will strip their ability to vote in ironic ptl or tc elections (assuming they don't contribute to any other repos). should we be trying to "solve" that? | 20:50 |
| * flaper87 was not around last week and can't remember the voting from the logs | 20:50 | |
| fungi | s/orinic/ironic/ | 20:50 |
| dtroyer | jroll: we currently have expectations of other projects as official, I think we would have similar there…ie, quality (CI) and so on | 20:50 |
| thingee | jroll as fungi said earlier, whatever the team sets as the validation. as I've pointed to this etherpad earlier there's a clear trend https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/driverlog-validation | 20:50 |
| mtreinish | flaper87: which patch? | 20:50 |
| mtreinish | there were 2 | 20:50 |
| dhellmann | fungi : ironic has a set of policies for driver authors to follow to stay in. The authors get to choose. Neutron has not provided a similar mechanism. | 20:50 |
| flaper87 | mtreinish: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/403829/ (sorry) | 20:51 |
| jroll | honestly, I'd like to throw out steve's survey. there were four emails in that thread, from two people that are driver maintainers. the rest were (ex-)ptl/tc members or cinder cores | 20:51 |
| jroll | dtroyer: sounds like a driver team :) | 20:51 |
| smcginnis | jroll: I was hoping for more non-core responses there. | 20:51 |
| jroll | smcginnis: me too :( | 20:51 |
| sdague | flaper87: yeh, I zeroed out my vote yesterday, because this doesn't feel like concensus | 20:51 |
| mtreinish | flaper87: oh I was -1 on that in the irc vote | 20:51 |
| sdague | and fix the docs situation does feel like a common first step which can be done | 20:52 |
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| fungi | smcginnis: lack of responses from driver authors on a thread to the mailing list where official openstack development is coordinated strikes me as a sort of result | 20:52 |
| jroll | thingee: and if we expect project teams won't validate out of tree drivers, as doug and I mentioned, then nobody will get extra-atc, is my point | 20:52 |
| stevemar_droid | jroll, that sounds fine to me. I wish there were more people replying. | 20:52 |
| jroll | fungi: this was a private thread fwiw | 20:52 |
| thingee | dhellmann agreed sort of. I see armax attempting to set validation points for plugins https://review.openstack.org/#/c/391594/1 | 20:52 |
| ttx | dhellmann: so the answer to your question seems to be: "it's not that much of a problem, but the TC can use teh extra-atc mechanism to propose and add ATC status to drivers that fall in the cracks" | 20:53 |
| persia | o/ | 20:53 |
| AJaeger | sdague: regarding docs: If somebody writes up a rule on what that means, I'm fine (note I'm a docs member but don't speak for the team). | 20:53 |
| fungi | jroll: yeah, more projecting to the followup thread to the -dev ml about the private thread | 20:53 |
| ttx | I think I had sdague in the queue with a question | 20:53 |
| jroll | fungi: nod | 20:53 |
| thingee | dhellmann in terms for the system to be policed, I don't see neutron taking that up until A system is in place | 20:53 |
| sdague | ttx: well, I just jumped out there with it | 20:53 |
| ttx | Tired, long day | 20:53 |
| sdague | basically, it seems like the discoverability and docs question as the primary concerns | 20:53 |
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| sdague | fixing them moves the ball forward, lets the dust settle, and we can then ask the next question about what is needed | 20:54 |
| thingee | jroll if I work on a random repo outside of openstack, should I get extra-atc status? | 20:54 |
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| thingee | if I read what you typed correctly | 20:54 |
| ttx | thingee: if an extra-atc change is proposed, the TC will evaluate it | 20:54 |
| AJaeger | thingee: and the other question: Should that random repo publish to docs.o.o? | 20:54 |
| ttx | (if the repo is too random, probably will say no) | 20:54 |
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| dhellmann | ttx: do we have an extra-atcs list that is not attached to a project team? | 20:55 |
| ttx | AJaeger: if the TC says it can, probably yes | 20:55 |
| jroll | thingee: I'm not talking about random repos, I'm talking about the out of tree drivers that might apply for official status like we're talking about here | 20:55 |
| dims | we should be welcoming people with open arms given where we are on the maturity curve ... | 20:55 |
| ttx | We have TC repos, I don't see why we couldn't have TC's extra-atcs | 20:55 |
| thingee | AJaeger for cases like neutron, if there is a system in place that validates that a driver out of tree is compatible and working by whatever means in tempest, yes they should have a right to be docs.o.o | 20:55 |
| dhellmann | ttx: ok | 20:55 |
| flaper87 | ttx: at that point, wouldn't it be better for the repo to be just part of openstack? | 20:55 |
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| thingee | jroll see my last message to AJaeger | 20:55 |
| stevemar_droid | jroll, dhellmann, if maintainers don't bother to show up to meetings or reply to ml or surveys, then what are the odds they are voting? | 20:56 |
| flaper87 | time check, 10 mins (or less) | 20:56 |
| thingee | jroll however, you made the choice to not validate out of tree drivers. which I don't understand why | 20:56 |
| ttx | flaper87: well that would mean compromising on what "an openstack project" is | 20:56 |
| dhellmann | stevemar_droid : I would still rather give them the choice. | 20:56 |
| jroll | thingee: if the project team is going to spend the effort to do that, they would make the driver repo part of the project team | 20:56 |
| ttx | flaper87: with extra-atcs we can recognize that driver work is essentail to thee success of openstack | 20:56 |
| ttx | without making it openstack proper | 20:56 |
| stevemar_droid | dhellmann, true | 20:56 |
| thingee | jroll to put it simply, I wouldn't do both out of tree and in-tree drivers. I would pick one or the other. | 20:57 |
| flaper87 | anyway, just to recap. I really think we should do #1 since that gives drivers a choice | 20:57 |
| dims | ttx : how far away is extra-atcs and driver-team in that case? | 20:57 |
| flaper87 | I can live by #3 if we set a checkpoint date to revisit #1 | 20:57 |
| jroll | thingee: you can't "not do" out of tree drivers, people can just write them. unless you block it in code which just leads to forks. | 20:57 |
| ttx | dims: it's different in my opinion. In one case you say that a driver team is an openstack team, even if it does not openly collaborate | 20:58 |
| thingee | jroll I mean to say recognize one or the other | 20:58 |
| ttx | on the other you say people working on drivers should have a voice in elections | 20:58 |
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| flaper87 | but, to be really honest, going with #3 would be a bit disappointing but it's better than #2 | 20:58 |
| stevemar_droid | Doesn't extra-acts have a stigma around it? We've only used it once in Keystone. Seems like we're using it as a convenience | 20:58 |
| dims | ttx : ack | 20:58 |
| jroll | thingee: if a project team spends the effort to validate out-of-tree drivers, they should just accept those drivers under the project | 20:58 |
| jroll | thingee: maybe we should s/tree/project/ in these discussions | 20:59 |
| jroll | as in, a project can be many repos | 20:59 |
| stevemar_droid | To solve the problem of giving people ATC properly | 20:59 |
| ttx | OK, I propose we pause this discussion for a couple of weeks, start the discovery work, let the water calm down | 20:59 |
| persia | To support dhellmann's point: if there is a mechanism by which members of the polity can have franchise removed due to changes beyond their control, those members are unlikely to expect to seek redress of any other concern within the same goernance mechanisms that enable them to be disenfranchised. This can affect more than just voting, and the disenfranchised folk may have a poor relation with their host project (or they would be less | 20:59 |
| persia | likely to lose franchise). | 20:59 |
| EmilienM | (no open discussion today :-/) | 20:59 |
| jgriffith | jroll or base with a driver repo :) | 20:59 |
| thingee | take cinder for example. it recognizes only in-tree. that's what's in docs.o.o and that's what it's in the market place. Neutron it would be out of tree, but they would only recognize out of tree drivers that meet the validation they set. thus what will be in docs and market place. | 20:59 |
| jroll | jgriffith: that too :) | 20:59 |
| ttx | We don't wait until discovery work is complete to revisit it, just a couple meetings without discussing it | 20:59 |
| jbryce | chiming in late, but i think we need to do #3 regardless and i want to figure out how to fix the data side of that. it’s definitely a question i hear ALL the time (usually in the form of “which products work with project y?”) | 20:59 |
| ttx | see where that puts us | 21:00 |
| jroll | thingee: in my world, neutron would either allow those in the stadium, or we would have driver teams. the former isn't happening. | 21:00 |
| ttx | EmilienM: you had something ? | 21:00 |
| dims | jbryce : for sure | 21:00 |
| jbryce | but i think the core issue does need to get resolved because, just from a practical perspective, most of openstack is not super useful without drivers | 21:00 |
| EmilienM | ttx: no but maybe some folks had something | 21:00 |
| flaper87 | jbryce: #3 is basically # giving priority to the discoverability issue, though. | 21:00 |
| thingee | jroll I don't understand why the stadium matters. Projects have this solved without having a "stadium" | 21:00 |
| flaper87 | nothing we can't do if we go with #1 | 21:00 |
| ttx | ok, time is up | 21:00 |
| jbryce | and the ambiguity is something that i hear is confusing for companies who are trying to integrate with us | 21:01 |
| fungi | for me it mostly comes down to this question: are we in a position where we need to encourage people/companies to write drivers, or do they already have plenty of incentive to do so? | 21:01 |
| ttx | Thanks everyone, even if little progress here | 21:01 |
| fungi | (noting i don't know the answer_ | 21:01 |
| ttx | #endmeeting | 21:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open discusion (Meeting topic: congressteammeeting)" | 21:01 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Jan 10 21:01:40 2017 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 21:01 |
| jbryce | flaper87: i just mean doing the discoverability fix of #3 | 21:01 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2017/tc.2017-01-10-20.01.html | 21:01 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2017/tc.2017-01-10-20.01.txt | 21:01 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2017/tc.2017-01-10-20.01.log.html | 21:01 |
| ttx | (need to clear the room for next meeting) | 21:01 |
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| oneswig | ready to go/ | 21:02 |
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| oneswig | thanks ttx | 21:02 |
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| b1airo | hello! | 21:02 |
| oneswig | #startmeeting scientific_wg | 21:02 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Jan 10 21:02:45 2017 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is oneswig. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 21:02 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 21:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: scientific_wg)" | 21:02 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'scientific_wg' | 21:02 |
| oneswig | #chair b1airo | 21:02 |
| openstack | Current chairs: b1airo oneswig | 21:02 |
| Lizhong | hi | 21:03 |
| oneswig | Spelled the meeting name correctly again - awesome start to 2017 | 21:03 |
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| oneswig | Hi Lizhong | 21:03 |
| priteau | Hello | 21:03 |
| oneswig | Hi priteau | 21:03 |
| oneswig | Lizhong: Martial coming today? | 21:03 |
| b1airo | oneswig, off to a flying start | 21:03 |
| oneswig | #link agenda for today is https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Scientific_working_group#IRC_Meeting_January_10th_2017 | 21:03 |
| Lizhong | Yes, he will | 21:03 |
| Lizhong | he's in a meeting now | 21:04 |
| oneswig | Should we make you chair in his absence? :-) | 21:04 |
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| b1airo | hi powerd | 21:04 |
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| oneswig | hi powerd | 21:04 |
| powerd | Evening/Morning! | 21:04 |
| oneswig | Reminds me, did you guys see this blog post from Bright | 21:05 |
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| oneswig | #link GPU article from Bright blog http://www.brightcomputing.com/blog/setting-up-gpu-hypervisors-on-bright-openstack | 21:05 |
| Lizhong | @oneswig I am quite new with the meeting format. maybe in the future. thanks :-) | 21:05 |
| oneswig | No problem, lets get the ball rolling | 21:06 |
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| powerd | just checking it now - pretty specific to cmsh though. | 21:06 |
| oneswig | So there was some housekeeping to get started with first | 21:06 |
| oneswig | thanks powerd - be interesting to see you cast your eye over it | 21:06 |
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| oneswig | The Boston summit needs nominees for judging the talks for the HPC/Research speaker track. If anyone is interested in volunteering, nominations are due by IIRC Jan 18th | 21:07 |
| b1airo | oneswig, haven't seen it, but i'm scratching my head at the need to hack code | 21:07 |
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| oneswig | #link track chair nominations https://openstackfoundation.formstack.com/forms/openstack_summit_boston2017_track_chair_nominations | 21:08 |
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| oneswig | tbh I hadn't read it in any depth as I'm busy enough with the stuff in front of me... | 21:09 |
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| oneswig | (wrt gpus that is) | 21:09 |
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| b1airo | what are you working on in that department? | 21:10 |
| oneswig | me - nothing on gpus right now | 21:10 |
| oneswig | mostly on deployment, monitoring and nvm-over-fabric currently | 21:10 |
| priteau | oneswig: thanks for the link, I didn't know this process | 21:10 |
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| b1airo | ah cool, so you took the bait on that one ;-) | 21:10 |
| trandles | lol | 21:11 |
| b1airo | priteau, actually when i put my nomination in i suggested you :-) | 21:11 |
| priteau | heh | 21:11 |
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| priteau | Maybe I can nominate you to cancel out? ;-) | 21:11 |
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| oneswig | mutual assured destruction!? | 21:12 |
| oneswig | (by committee) | 21:12 |
| b1airo | what could go wrong! | 21:12 |
| b1airo | so regarding Boston... | 21:13 |
| b1airo | it's been a while since I chatted to dfflanders | 21:13 |
| oneswig | you were right, the cloud declaration thing is the following week - my mistake | 21:13 |
| b1airo | but last time we spoke he was suggesting the scientific-wg would be called upon to suggest several sessions | 21:13 |
| oneswig | do you think we can manage a session per activity area, if people come forward for it? Or something more general? | 21:14 |
| b1airo | given how things went in Barcelona i think we could propose 3 working group sessions: a meeting, a BoF, lightning talks | 21:14 |
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| b1airo | yeah that's probably an option | 21:15 |
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| oneswig | what is the structure of a Bof if not lightning talks - is any structure needed other than breaking the ice for discussion? | 21:15 |
| b1airo | but the foundation staff are keen on us also proposing cross-over sessions with TC teams | 21:16 |
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| oneswig | b1airo: what would that mean? | 21:16 |
| b1airo | oneswig, i see the BoF as mainly open discussion and a forum to shake out new activity areas | 21:16 |
| b1airo | e.g. maybe we'd suggest a session on quota management for science clouds | 21:17 |
| priteau | b1airo: how do you structure the open discussion though? free for all is hard to manage with a big audience | 21:17 |
| b1airo | priteau, yes that's true but you have a moderator and a structure already brainstormed on etherpad | 21:18 |
| oneswig | Too bad I can't make this one - I'm a master at making a small audience (out of a big one) | 21:18 |
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| b1airo | lol | 21:18 |
| b1airo | i didn't see anyone leave the keynote when you were speaking | 21:18 |
| oneswig | It was dark! | 21:19 |
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| oneswig | b1airo: What happens in a cross-over session? | 21:19 |
| b1airo | oneswig, i think the idea is to attempt to bring devs, ops, etc to a common understanding of a problem as the first goal | 21:20 |
| b1airo | that's half the battle | 21:20 |
| oneswig | Is our role then to state the problem as clearly as possible? | 21:21 |
| b1airo | and in some cases the process to get there might shake out solutions/workarounds that don't require any extra work, but if not then the idea would be to collect enough detail to go forward to specs and/or user stories | 21:21 |
| b1airo | yes, i believe so | 21:21 |
| trandles | Are there any WG topics/use cases fully-formed enough to bring in another group/TC for discussion? | 21:22 |
| oneswig | For example, one issue I'd like to see resolved is how to reconfigure RAID depending on whether a node was for compute or for big data (in which case it would prefer 6 non-RAID disks) - that kind of thing? | 21:23 |
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| b1airo | trandles, i think there are lots of things that WG members are keen on but we're probably looking for broad issues that may already be fairly well known yet have not had any dev commitment or are waiting on TC to prioritise | 21:24 |
| oneswig | b1airo: items from our activity areas from this cycle perhaps? We ought to have had a few group discussions about those by now | 21:24 |
| b1airo | the nested quota (with delegated management) issues that Tim Bell has explained in blog form come to mind | 21:25 |
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| b1airo | yes, i imagine something on federation would be good - honestly for me that would be a 101 on current technical state from keystone et al | 21:26 |
| oneswig | Would be useful to keep that in people's minds, on the nested quotas | 21:26 |
| trandles | A strength of the WG would be to present a unified use case with broad applicability to the WG members to a project or set of projects. Tim Bell's quotas or accounting comes to mind as a good example of that. | 21:26 |
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| oneswig | trandles: good point, can we cite a gang of related overlapping use case needs | 21:27 |
| powerd | id like to propose a talk on the gpu work being done - by the time the summit comes around i should be in a more advanced stage with performance numbers and guidance on setup optimisations | 21:27 |
| trandles | Monitoring is another topic | 21:27 |
| b1airo | not sure about GPUs though, i think powerd and i just need to finish drafting and then propose it as an addition to the admin guide | 21:27 |
| priteau | We should identify who would be the other group for each potential topic (e.g. Keystone devs for federation, Nova and/or Ironic for resource management) | 21:27 |
| b1airo | other than that it's about awareness, so talks etc | 21:27 |
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| oneswig | powerd: a talk's a separate thing, if it goes into the main conference track | 21:27 |
| powerd | s/talk/anything appropriate/g | 21:28 |
| oneswig | That's better :-) | 21:28 |
| b1airo | priteau, yes that's probably the primary concern in the short-term so that the other parties can prioritise the proposals | 21:28 |
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| b1airo | anyway, i think there is an action for me to catch up with dfflanders and report back - or twist his ear to make sure he attends next week | 21:29 |
| oneswig | How can we generate a short list - have the activity leads generate one per area for next session? | 21:30 |
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| oneswig | Or throw it open on an etherpad? | 21:30 |
| oneswig | bit of both? | 21:30 |
| b1airo | #action b1airo to chase up dfflanders re. boston forum format / proposals / expectations | 21:30 |
| b1airo | i'd go with open, if the leads are engaged then they'll suggest things on that area, no point restricting | 21:30 |
| trandles | I prefer etherpad, easier to deal with timezones | 21:31 |
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| b1airo | +1 | 21:31 |
| oneswig | trandles: b1airo: sounds good to me | 21:31 |
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| oneswig | I'll put together 4 etherpads | 21:31 |
| b1airo | i'll roll that into my action and can put a preface in about what we're trying to do | 21:31 |
| b1airo | ha! | 21:32 |
| oneswig | aha - b1airo is going to put together 4 etherpads - even better :-) | 21:32 |
| b1airo | let's just have one oneswig - gets hard to track them all | 21:32 |
| oneswig | OK b1airo - agreed | 21:32 |
| b1airo | i already over 200 browser tabs open... | 21:32 |
| b1airo | *have over | 21:32 |
| b1airo | (and that's just on *this* laptop) | 21:33 |
| oneswig | My desk is the phyiscal manifestation of that | 21:33 |
| b1airo | heh, that's a funny image | 21:33 |
| oneswig | OK, should we make an early indication of interest on rooms? Edgar was asking | 21:34 |
| b1airo | did you see my reply on that thread? | 21:34 |
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| oneswig | From last week? | 21:35 |
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| b1airo | we just need to propose the sessions we want along with the main call, then once it closes the organisers will get back to us about time and space options | 21:35 |
| martial | (sorry, the meeting that would not end) | 21:35 |
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| oneswig | #chair martial | 21:36 |
| openstack | Current chairs: b1airo martial oneswig | 21:36 |
| oneswig | Hi Martial | 21:36 |
| martial | Hello all | 21:36 |
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| jpr | are there any recommended qualifications for track chair nominations (deep expertise or more a willingness to contribute?) | 21:36 |
| b1airo | welcome martial - believe me, i know the feeling, last friday i had a meeting that went 10am->4.30pm o_0 | 21:36 |
| oneswig | OK so we don't need to worry about earliest indications | 21:36 |
| b1airo | jpr, willingness mainly but expertise is of course useful | 21:37 |
| oneswig | jpr: don't know. Keenness to participate is a big plus | 21:37 |
| jpr | k thx | 21:37 |
| b1airo | so on the session proposals... | 21:37 |
| b1airo | that circles back to what i was saying earlier | 21:38 |
| oneswig | many people have said the committee meeting needs to be in a bigger room | 21:38 |
| b1airo | 1) meeting, 2) lightning talks, 3) BoF and/or activity breakouts ? | 21:38 |
| oneswig | And I think the lightning talks were a good success | 21:38 |
| b1airo | yes, perhaps just one or two fewer this time though :-D | 21:38 |
| oneswig | I think something more's needed to make a separate BoF a success - perhaps have it run immediately after the lightning talks in the hope they stimulate discussion | 21:39 |
| b1airo | actually here's an idea: have a BoF session, but structured by activity breakouts with each of those moderated by a respective lead | 21:40 |
| oneswig | b1airo: that'd do it | 21:40 |
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| b1airo | that keeps everybody across and able to participate in the different areas but moves us through them in a structured manner so we don't get stuck anywhere too long | 21:41 |
| martial | that might mean a few BoF sessions then ? | 21:41 |
| oneswig | serially then not concurrently? | 21:41 |
| b1airo | yep i was think serially | 21:42 |
| dfflanders | blairo, sorry I was here just got pulled away | 21:42 |
| * dfflanders reading up | 21:42 | |
| b1airo | so a double-session BoF with 5 areas (4 current activity areas and time at the end for raising others) | 21:43 |
| b1airo | that'd be about 15 mins for each | 21:43 |
| martial | 15 minutes seems short | 21:43 |
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| b1airo | and sweet! ;-) | 21:44 |
| trandles | 15 minutes disappears in a blink if anyone goes long | 21:44 |
| martial | if my memory of how much we like to speak of our topic of interest is that is :) | 21:44 |
| trandles | moderator will have to be draconian ;) | 21:44 |
| b1airo | martial, it's not a lightning talk though - it'd be the lead for a particular activity area coordinating discussion on that area from an etherpad they've pre-prepared | 21:45 |
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| b1airo | we could try asking for individual sessions for each area but then we're looking at a minimum of 6 - and that seems a lot | 21:45 |
| oneswig | ... etherpads seeded with the gaps they've identified through discussions this cycle | 21:46 |
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| b1airo | shall we talk about the Boston Declaration a little? | 21:46 |
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| martial | sure, which means that we ask people to come prepared and with pre-discussion ready ... feasible | 21:46 |
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| dfflanders | re expectations for forum, there is this blog post http://superuser.openstack.org/articles/openstack-forum/ | 21:47 |
| oneswig | time keeping - whoever said it must be strict was right. I've been in some of those discussions | 21:47 |
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| dfflanders | however, I would suggest the forum as an open ended event is wide open for interpretation and the scientific-wg should make it work for your purposes and request the time/space needed to achieve those aims/goals | 21:48 |
| b1airo | dfflanders, yes i saw that, but it's general rather than talking about the specifics of how it will come together | 21:48 |
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| b1airo | last time we spoke on this you suggested we should be thinking about cross-over sessions...? | 21:48 |
| dfflanders | if it suits your purposes | 21:48 |
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| b1airo | ok, i'll read that again and we can circle back next week after mulling it over | 21:49 |
| dfflanders | most importantly scope the event you want to do which will enable your WG to achieve its aims for that cycle | 21:50 |
| dfflanders | the foundation is flexible and want the community to own and craft the forum as their event. | 21:50 |
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| b1airo | makes sense | 21:52 |
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| dfflanders | Poster session, lightning talks, goldfish bowls, and/or any other open space event is encouraged... I particularly liked the idea of a poster session you had for Barcelona last time. | 21:52 |
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| oneswig | I think our aims are generally more vague than can be solved by a discussion with PTLs, other than to detail use cases they may not envisage | 21:53 |
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| b1airo | martial, it's your moment :-) | 21:53 |
| martial | b1airo how so ? :) | 21:53 |
| oneswig | posters martial! | 21:53 |
| b1airo | your poster didn't really get a proper airing in barcelona | 21:54 |
| martial | well I can bring it back :) | 21:54 |
| martial | by popular demand and all | 21:54 |
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| martial | (although I guess I should extend it with the new work we are involved with) | 21:55 |
| oneswig | Would this be an alternative format for a BoF or a separate event by itself? | 21:56 |
| b1airo | the PTLs are probably interested in hearing about pain points but yes, would be best to have them engaged in something bigger | 21:56 |
| b1airo | separate i think...? | 21:56 |
| martial | separate sounds like a better plan to me too | 21:57 |
| martial | and non overlapping if possible ? | 21:57 |
| b1airo | powerd, before we finish - did you do any P100 testing yet? | 21:57 |
| oneswig | That sounds like plenty of content for the summit, along with the speaker track | 21:57 |
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| b1airo | coming up on time | 21:58 |
| b1airo | AOB or is everyone still in holiday mode :-) | 21:58 |
| oneswig | A bit of resurfacing old news - people were asking about ansible-managed bios settings - finally got to writing it up | 21:58 |
| oneswig | #link http://www.stackhpc.com/ansible-drac.html | 21:58 |
| powerd | P100 testing: not yet | 21:58 |
| oneswig | share and enjoy | 21:58 |
| powerd | but its in the lab now | 21:59 |
| martial | oneswig: interesting, thanks for sharing | 21:59 |
| b1airo | cool | 21:59 |
| priteau | oneswig: I saw your tweet today, I will read! | 21:59 |
| oneswig | Ha, thanks priteau! | 21:59 |
| oneswig | OK, that's it for this week. | 22:00 |
| trandles | oneswig: very interested...my production testbed is dell hardware and I've been looking for an ansible-based solution so timely ;) | 22:00 |
| oneswig | Thanks all, until next time | 22:00 |
| oneswig | #endmeeting | 22:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open discusion (Meeting topic: congressteammeeting)" | 22:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Jan 10 22:00:31 2017 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 22:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/scientific_wg/2017/scientific_wg.2017-01-10-21.02.html | 22:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/scientific_wg/2017/scientific_wg.2017-01-10-21.02.txt | 22:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/scientific_wg/2017/scientific_wg.2017-01-10-21.02.log.html | 22:00 |
| b1airo | till next week! | 22:00 |
| priteau | Have a good week! | 22:00 |
| trandles | ciao | 22:01 |
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