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| hongbin | #startmeeting zun | 03:00 |
|---|---|---|
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Nov 29 03:00:04 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is hongbin. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 03:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 03:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: zun)" | 03:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'zun' | 03:00 |
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| hongbin | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Zun#Agenda_for_2016-11-29_0300_UTC Today's agenda | 03:00 |
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| hongbin | #topic Roll Call | 03:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Roll Call (Meeting topic: zun)" | 03:00 | |
| Namrata | Namrata | 03:00 |
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| kevinz | kevinz | 03:00 |
| eliqiao | eliqiao | 03:00 |
| shubhams | shubham | 03:00 |
| lakerzhou | lakerzhou | 03:01 |
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| hongbin | Thanks for joining hte meeting Namrata kevinz eliqiao shubhams lakerzhou | 03:02 |
| hongbin | i knew madhuri cannot come today | 03:02 |
| hongbin | then, let's start | 03:02 |
| sudipto_ | o/ | 03:02 |
| hongbin | #topic Announcements | 03:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Announcements (Meeting topic: zun)" | 03:02 | |
| hongbin | sudipto: hey | 03:02 |
| hongbin | 1. Zun is applying to become an official OpenStack project | 03:02 |
| hongbin | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/402227/ | 03:02 |
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| hongbin | i saw most of you have casted a +1 there, which is great :) | 03:03 |
| hongbin | right now, 5 tc has voted for yes | 03:03 |
| hongbin | it looks everything is good so far | 03:03 |
| hongbin | let's see how this application will go | 03:03 |
| shubhams | hongbin: How many TC votes we need ? | 03:03 |
| hongbin | shubhams: not exactly sure | 03:04 |
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| shubhams | hongbin: ok | 03:04 |
| hongbin | shubhams: we need approval from the tc chair | 03:04 |
| eliqiao | 5 are over 1/2, right? | 03:04 |
| hongbin | shubhams: the tc chair will approve if there is a consensus among most of hte tc | 03:04 |
| clarkb | eliqiao: no I think tc is 13 total | 03:04 |
| hongbin | eliqiao: i remembered there were 13 tc | 03:05 |
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| clarkb | we elect 6 and then 7 for 13 total | 03:05 |
| eliqiao | clarkb: oh, good to know ,thx. | 03:05 |
| eliqiao | hongbin: thx :) | 03:05 |
| hongbin | anything else for the big-tent application ? | 03:05 |
| hongbin | ok, move on | 03:06 |
| hongbin | #topic Review Action Items | 03:06 |
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| *** openstack changes topic to "Review Action Items (Meeting topic: zun)" | 03:06 | |
| hongbin | none | 03:06 |
| hongbin | #topic Container network (hongbin) | 03:06 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Container network (hongbin) (Meeting topic: zun)" | 03:06 | |
| hongbin | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/zun/+spec/neutron-integration The BP | 03:06 |
| hongbin | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/365754/ The proposed spec (merged) | 03:06 |
| hongbin | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/396896/ The patch Part 1 | 03:06 |
| hongbin | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/399248/ The patch Part 2 | 03:06 |
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| hongbin | right now, all the patches were merged. thanks all for reviews | 03:06 |
| hongbin | i will remove this from the meeting agenda next week | 03:07 |
| hongbin | before i move forward, any question for the sandbox feature? | 03:07 |
| hongbin | #topic Kubernetes integration (shubhams) | 03:07 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Kubernetes integration (shubhams) (Meeting topic: zun)" | 03:07 | |
| hongbin | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/zun/+spec/k8s-integration | 03:08 |
| hongbin | shubhams: ^^ | 03:08 |
| shubhams | We created etherpad and put down oour idea there | 03:08 |
| shubhams | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/zun-k8s-integration | 03:08 |
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| shubhams | The basic flow is : first we are trying to see if python-k8sclient can be used | 03:09 |
| shubhams | and in parallel, we will finalize the APIs that we are going to introduce | 03:09 |
| sudipto_ | so the k8s integration is about a different set of APIs in zun? | 03:09 |
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| shubhams | sudipto_: yes | 03:09 |
| hongbin | let's discuss this | 03:10 |
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| shubhams | hongbin: ok | 03:10 |
| hongbin | right now, this is what zun currently support: container, sandbox | 03:10 |
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| hongbin | this is what k8s currently support: pod, service, replication controller | 03:10 |
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| hongbin | i think the first step is to find a reasonable overlay of the apis between zun and k8s | 03:11 |
| hongbin | however, feel free to share your ideas if any | 03:11 |
| kevinz | zun-api will directly talk with k8s-apiserver directly? | 03:12 |
| sudipto_ | Also, in this case, what are the additional features that zun would provide or will it just be a passthrough to K8s? | 03:12 |
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| hongbin | kevinz: i think so | 03:12 |
| hongbin | sudipto_: let's cast the inputs to the etherpad | 03:13 |
| eliqiao | can you tell what's your idear about zun api looks like for k8s intergration? | 03:13 |
| shubhams | kevinz, hongbin : we plan to use python-k8sclient for communication between zun and k8s | 03:13 |
| hongbin | shubhams: i am ok with that | 03:13 |
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| hongbin | shubhams: python-k8sclient will talk to kube-apiserver | 03:13 |
| eliqiao | that's will bring another old magnum api problem. | 03:13 |
| kevinz | OK | 03:13 |
| shubhams | IMO, zun should not necessarily provide 1-to-1 mapping with k8s | 03:13 |
| zhangjl | eliqiao:agree | 03:14 |
| shubhams | we can have minimum set of commands for now : ex: service, pods at the minimum | 03:14 |
| eliqiao | I think zun's mission is to unify container API right? (low level could be k8s docker, etc.) | 03:14 |
| eliqiao | shubhams: but if your low level driver is docker, the operation will be consufsed by serice pods ... | 03:15 |
| shubhams | eliqiao: right, so post k8s we can provide same features for other COEs as well , right? | 03:15 |
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| shubhams | zun can provide cluster management apis in unified manner along with container management apis | 03:16 |
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| shubhams | What are your views on this ? | 03:17 |
| eliqiao | shubhams: I don't get 'zun can provide cluster management apis' | 03:17 |
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| eliqiao | I think Magnum will provide that mission | 03:17 |
| kevinz | zun will do just like "kubectl" do? | 03:17 |
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| eliqiao | If you konw the history of Magnum, Magnum support k8s/docker at sametime. | 03:18 |
| shubhams | eliqiao: I am thinking in the way service and pod are managed | 03:18 |
| eliqiao | it has pod/service/rc endpoint and also container endpints | 03:18 |
| shubhams | kevinz: roughly speaking "yes" | 03:18 |
| eliqiao | so user who using k8s will be confused by 'container' | 03:18 |
| kevinz | shubhams: :D ok | 03:19 |
| eliqiao | zun aimed to provide unified APIs for all COEs. | 03:19 |
| Qiming | unified api for COE is different from unified API for containers ... | 03:19 |
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| shubhams | eliqiao: Yes. That's why we do not aim for 1-to-1 mapping with k8s | 03:20 |
| hongbin | Qiming: hey, good to see you here | 03:20 |
| Qiming | watching, thinking | 03:20 |
| hongbin | ok, let's discuss one point | 03:20 |
| hongbin | zun do not aim for 1-to-1 mapping with k8s | 03:20 |
| hongbin | i agree with this point | 03:20 |
| hongbin | what do you think? | 03:21 |
| eliqiao | Qiming: can you detail the differences? | 03:21 |
| Qiming | when we are talking about a unified API for COEs, we are aiming at a reference implementation of OCI | 03:21 |
| hongbin | Qiming: You mean CNCF? | 03:22 |
| Qiming | when we are talking about unified API for containers, we are abstracting away the difference between lxc, docker (minus swarm), rkt, etc. | 03:22 |
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| eliqiao | Qiming: yes, get it. diferent level. | 03:22 |
| Qiming | we need a compelling reason for users to adopt zun | 03:22 |
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| Qiming | if I'm a fan of k8s, I really need a reason to switch to zun | 03:23 |
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| Qiming | btw, I'm not a fan of k8s yet, :D | 03:24 |
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| Qiming | the advantage of zun, as I see it, is it is based on OpenStack, as stated in the big-tent application | 03:24 |
| Qiming | if we can maximize that value, we win | 03:25 |
| shubhams | With the ongoing discussion , I get a feel that if we tend to integrate anything using (driver model eg: docker driver , k8s driver etc) then we might not be able to acheive this goal of uniformity | 03:25 |
| shubhams | As we will bounded by the limitation of features provided by respective COEs and runtimes | 03:25 |
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| Qiming | if we get ourselves trapped into a k8s compatibility, I'm afraid we are going nowhere | 03:26 |
| shubhams | Qiming: agree | 03:26 |
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| hongbin | Qiming: +1 | 03:26 |
| sudipto_ | yup! | 03:26 |
| Qiming | think from users perspective | 03:26 |
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| Qiming | what do they need, what do they value most | 03:26 |
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| hongbin | i think users just want a simple API that is capable to host their applications | 03:26 |
| Qiming | I share the same thought with you, hongbin | 03:27 |
| hongbin | then, the zun API should start with simple and basic functionality | 03:27 |
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| sudipto_ | Are we considering composition of services to be supported via ZUN - with the same set of docker APIs? | 03:27 |
| hongbin | then, extend to an advanced set of features as we go | 03:28 |
| sudipto_ | docker-compose kinda functionality. | 03:28 |
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| Qiming | sounds like something we can leverage heat? | 03:28 |
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| sudipto_ | I mean getting a container in openstack without real composition supported - i am not sure how useful is that. | 03:29 |
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| sudipto_ | because we are talking about micro services and that would involve deploying a set of containers, not just one. | 03:29 |
| sudipto_ | The reason i brought in the conjecture is because, maybe that would help us define what we want to achieve with K8s...with zun... | 03:30 |
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| hongbin | here is what i think: forget about service and replication controller for now | 03:30 |
| hongbin | implement pod or container or both in zun at the first step | 03:31 |
| hongbin | if we have pod, container is easy (a pod with one container) | 03:31 |
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| eliqiao | hongbin: hehe ... | 03:31 |
| sudipto_ | hongbin, agreed. | 03:31 |
| hongbin | for docker, we have the sandbox concept now, which makes us easier to implement pod in docker driver | 03:31 |
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| eliqiao | hongbin: that's tricky | 03:32 |
| Qiming | make those things rock solid when we are looking forward to more advanced features and/or use cases | 03:32 |
| sudipto_ | My point is - make zun self sufficient first and then move on supporting other COEs if at all. | 03:32 |
| sudipto_ | Qiming, +1 | 03:32 |
| shubhams | hongbin: yep right.. same priorities we have in our etherpad :) | 03:32 |
| shubhams | Qiming: +1 | 03:33 |
| hongbin | ok, all. i proposed all of us to vote on each option in the etherpad | 03:33 |
| hongbin | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/zun-k8s-integration | 03:33 |
| hongbin | the etherpad should list all the options we have discussed so far | 03:33 |
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| hongbin | ok, all | 03:43 |
| hongbin | let's work on the etherpad as a homework | 03:43 |
| shubhams | hongbin: ok | 03:43 |
| hongbin | is everyone still on the etherpad? or back to here? | 03:43 |
| kevinz | :D | 03:43 |
| hongbin | ok, move on | 03:44 |
| hongbin | #topic Support interactive mode (kevinz) | 03:44 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Support interactive mode (kevinz) (Meeting topic: zun)" | 03:44 | |
| hongbin | kevinz: ^^ | 03:44 |
| kevinz | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/396841/ | 03:45 |
| hongbin | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/zun/+spec/support-interactive-mode The BP | 03:45 |
| kevinz | Here is the design spec I've updated | 03:45 |
| hongbin | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/396841/ The design spec | 03:45 |
| hongbin | kevinz: maybe you could briefly explain what is the updated idea? | 03:45 |
| hongbin | kevinz: because not everyone here has reviewed the updated spec | 03:46 |
| kevinz | OK plan to refer to Kubenetes, zun-cli will first connect to zun-api zun-compute to create container | 03:47 |
| kevinz | docker daemon will open a tcp port | 03:48 |
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| kevinz | zun cli will connect to the zun-api then proxy to the tcp port | 03:48 |
| kevinz | connect local stdin stderr stdout to this container to realize the interactive | 03:49 |
| kevinz | Just like kubernetes does | 03:49 |
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| hongbin | kevinz: the flow will be: zunclient -> zun-api -> zun-compute -> docker daemon ? | 03:50 |
| kevinz | Yeah I think your advice is valuable, change to zunclient -> zun-api ->docker daemon | 03:50 |
| hongbin | i should say: zunclient <-> zun-api <-> zun-compute <-> docker daemon (since the streaming is bidirectional) | 03:50 |
| hongbin | ok | 03:50 |
| hongbin | then zunclient <-> zun-api <-> docker daemon | 03:51 |
| hongbin | i like that, because bypassing zun-compute will reduce some overhead | 03:51 |
| hongbin | kevinz: then, the spec looks good to me | 03:52 |
| kevinz | Yeah, as first step could we just : zunclient <-> websocket <-> docker-daemon | 03:52 |
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| kevinz | zunclient ask zun-api for the websocket link, then connect to port directly without token first step? | 03:53 |
| hongbin | kevinz: i suggest forgetting the token for now | 03:53 |
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| hongbin | kevinz: you don't have to implement the authentication at the first iteration | 03:54 |
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| hongbin | kevinz: i think that will be easier for you | 03:54 |
| kevinz | hongbin: OK , that means ask zun-api for the websocket link, then connect to port directly is fine ? | 03:54 |
| hongbin | kevinz: yes | 03:54 |
| kevinz | hongbin: COOL I will update the spec | 03:54 |
| hongbin | kevinz: after that, you can consider using token / TLS to secure the connection | 03:55 |
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| kevinz | hongbin: Thanks | 03:55 |
| kevinz | yep | 03:55 |
| hongbin | sounds good | 03:55 |
| hongbin | kevinz: thanks for proposing the spec | 03:55 |
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| kevinz | hongbin: My pleasure | 03:55 |
| hongbin | #topic Open Discussion | 03:56 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: zun)" | 03:56 | |
| hongbin | ok, if there is nothing else, let's end the meeting a few minutes earlier | 03:57 |
| hongbin | #endmeeting | 03:57 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 03:57 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Nov 29 03:57:19 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 03:57 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/zun/2016/zun.2016-11-29-03.00.html | 03:57 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/zun/2016/zun.2016-11-29-03.00.txt | 03:57 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/zun/2016/zun.2016-11-29-03.00.log.html | 03:57 |
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| kota_ | sorry being late | 08:04 |
| kota_ | no one? | 08:05 |
| kota_ | it looks like eranrom is in the user list. | 08:05 |
| eranrom | #startmeeting storlets | 08:06 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Nov 29 08:06:04 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is eranrom. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 08:06 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 08:06 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: storlets)" | 08:06 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'storlets' | 08:06 |
| eranrom | Hi, sorry I am late | 08:06 |
| kota_ | hi eranrom :) | 08:06 |
| eranrom | Takashi will not be able to join. | 08:06 |
| eranrom | So lets start. | 08:06 |
| eranrom | #topic PTG | 08:06 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "PTG (Meeting topic: storlets)" | 08:06 | |
| kota_ | k, takashi looks absent. | 08:06 |
| eranrom | The news from last week are that should we get a room (depending on being official) it will be for all day long Wed-Fri. | 08:07 |
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| kota_ | eranrom: !? | 08:08 |
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| eranrom | Takashi asked if we will get a room will it be for all day long or just periods. | 08:08 |
| eranrom | I think his line of thought was: If we have it for all day, perhaps it gives us enough flexibility to meet during Wed-Fri instead of unofficially on Mon-Tue | 08:09 |
| kota_ | eranrom: ah, ok. he inclines to keep our room FWIW if we have topics for all. | 08:10 |
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| kota_ | make sense | 08:11 |
| eranrom | I guess the question is: Do you think you will not be all caught up with Swift during Wed-Fri? | 08:12 |
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| kota_ | ah does he ask to us? | 08:13 |
| kota_ | for the answer, i'm not sure if i can manage the time so flexible. | 08:14 |
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| eranrom | ok, I see. Since Takashi is not here lets continue to discuss next week. | 08:15 |
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| kota_ | thinkin back to the past hackathon, we had a lot of in-flight conversation which is not addressed in official in the whole week so... | 08:15 |
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| kota_ | eranrom: sure, thanks | 08:16 |
| eranrom | kota_: ok. | 08:16 |
| eranrom | #topic: packaging patch | 08:16 |
| *** openstack changes topic to ": packaging patch (Meeting topic: storlets)" | 08:16 | |
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| eranrom | So the devstack patch was merged, and Takashi is rebasing the packaging patch. | 08:17 |
| eranrom | once rebased, are you ok with merging it? | 08:17 |
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| kota_ | eranrom: has takashi addressed the docs for installation already? | 08:17 |
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| kota_ | eranrom: not yet noticed the recent activity for packaging patch. | 08:18 |
| eranrom | kota_: ah, good point. | 08:18 |
| eranrom | If the new patch will not have it we can -1 | 08:18 |
| kota_ | yes | 08:19 |
| eranrom | ok | 08:19 |
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| eranrom | Once this is done, I will have few patches before I feel comfortable to get back to the TC. | 08:20 |
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| eranrom | that is with getting official. | 08:20 |
| kota_ | nice | 08:21 |
| eranrom | anything else for today? | 08:21 |
| kota_ | not so big one from me | 08:22 |
| kota_ | just notify small things | 08:23 |
| kota_ | from my company's order, I will be about to improve/testing around multi-in and perhaps multi-out for storlets | 08:24 |
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| eranrom | nice! | 08:24 |
| kota_ | probably the first thing is confirmation for python x multi-in | 08:24 |
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| kota_ | and we may need to consider multi-out and something around timeout/open connction (to Swift) timing for long exectution task in storlets | 08:25 |
| kota_ | anyway, in my idea, that happens in the new packaging dir structure | 08:25 |
| kota_ | that should | 08:26 |
| kota_ | so I'm willing to look the patch from takashi again soonly ;-) | 08:26 |
| eranrom | kota_: ok. We have discussed the long execution time before. I would LOVE to have this. | 08:26 |
| eranrom | kota_: Great! thanks! | 08:27 |
| eranrom | please letme know if I can assist in any way (other than of corse to review) | 08:27 |
| kota_ | eranrom: thanks! | 08:28 |
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| eranrom | kota_: anything else for today? | 08:30 |
| kota_ | that's all from me today | 08:30 |
| eranrom | ok, so thanks for joining. | 08:32 |
| eranrom | talk to you later | 08:32 |
| eranrom | #endmeeting | 08:32 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 08:32 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Nov 29 08:32:47 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 08:32 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/storlets/2016/storlets.2016-11-29-08.06.html | 08:32 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/storlets/2016/storlets.2016-11-29-08.06.txt | 08:32 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/storlets/2016/storlets.2016-11-29-08.06.log.html | 08:32 |
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| yanyanhu | #startmeeting senlin | 13:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Nov 29 13:00:07 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is yanyanhu. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 13:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 13:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: senlin)" | 13:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'senlin' | 13:00 |
| yanyanhu | hi, guys | 13:00 |
| XueFengLiu | hi yanyan | 13:00 |
| yanyanhu | hi, XueFengLiu | 13:00 |
| lvdongbing | hi, all | 13:00 |
| yanyanhu | hello | 13:00 |
| Qiming | hi | 13:00 |
| yanyanhu | hi, Qiming | 13:00 |
| yanyanhu | lets wait for a while for other attenders | 13:01 |
| yanyanhu | here is the agenda, https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/SenlinAgenda#Agenda_.282016-11-29_1300_UTC.29 | 13:01 |
| yanyanhu | please feel free to add items | 13:01 |
| yanyanhu | ok, lets move on | 13:02 |
| yanyanhu | #topic ocata workitem | 13:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "ocata workitem (Meeting topic: senlin)" | 13:02 | |
| yanyanhu | https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/senlin-ocata-workitems | 13:02 |
| yanyanhu | here is the list | 13:02 |
| yanyanhu | - Improve tempest API test | 13:03 |
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| yanyanhu | I think we can consider to start working on it for the versioned request support is almost done | 13:03 |
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| yanyanhu | the basic idea is adding the verification of exception message | 13:04 |
| Qiming | we have removed the performance benchmarking work completely? | 13:04 |
| yanyanhu | to ensure the request handling logic is correct | 13:04 |
| yanyanhu | Qiming, I plan to move it back to todo list | 13:05 |
| yanyanhu | for I don't have time to work on it recently... | 13:05 |
| yanyanhu | if anyone want to pick it up, that will be great | 13:05 |
| Qiming | I see | 13:05 |
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| yanyanhu | the basement is there, just need efforts to support more profiles and scenarios | 13:06 |
| yanyanhu | ok, next one | 13:06 |
| yanyanhu | HA support | 13:07 |
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| yanyanhu | hi, lixinhui | 13:07 |
| yanyanhu | we just started the topic about HA in seconds :) | 13:07 |
| lixinhui | okay | 13:07 |
| lixinhui | :) | 13:07 |
| yanyanhu | any new progress? | 13:08 |
| lixinhui | in the past week, I submitted the ocativia BP and patch | 13:08 |
| Qiming | noticed that and your patch | 13:08 |
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| Qiming | good work | 13:08 |
| yanyanhu | great | 13:08 |
| lixinhui | Michael has some question about the background | 13:09 |
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| lixinhui | and I gave some answer | 13:09 |
| yanyanhu | about using lbaas hm for HA purpose? | 13:10 |
| lixinhui | if answer can not resolve his questions, may need to discuss that on the weekly meeting of ocativa | 13:10 |
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| lixinhui | yes, I mentioned the use case | 13:10 |
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| Qiming | emm | 13:11 |
| lixinhui | https://review.openstack.org/402296 | 13:11 |
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| Qiming | hope it won't become next vpnaas | 13:11 |
| Qiming | which is dying | 13:11 |
| lixinhui | yes, it is dying | 13:11 |
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| yanyanhu | people do have strong requirement for native lb support | 13:12 |
| lixinhui | anyway, not a big change. hope he can accept | 13:12 |
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| yanyanhu | although imho, lbaas is not ready fro production requirement | 13:12 |
| yanyanhu | s/fro/for | 13:12 |
| Qiming | agreed | 13:12 |
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| yanyanhu | so maybe we can give them a simple introduction about our use case | 13:13 |
| Qiming | they may and may not care | 13:13 |
| yanyanhu | Qiming, yes | 13:13 |
| yanyanhu | so we just try our best | 13:13 |
| Qiming | it is not about our use case | 13:13 |
| Qiming | it is their BUG | 13:14 |
| lixinhui | okay | 13:14 |
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| yanyanhu | actually this is a contribution for lbaas I feel | 13:14 |
| Qiming | a serious bug, they need to take care of it | 13:14 |
| yanyanhu | no harm for them :) | 13:14 |
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| yanyanhu | Qiming, you mean the incorrect health status of lb member | 13:14 |
| Qiming | if lbaas is maintaining health status for nodes, they should do it right | 13:14 |
| yanyanhu | I mean omitting event for status change | 13:15 |
| Qiming | we tried help fix it, and they reject the patch, and they "WON'T" fix the bug | 13:15 |
| yanyanhu | I have more strong feeling that our work about event/notification is such important :) | 13:15 |
| Qiming | now xinhui is trying another workaround, let them send out notifications when node health change | 13:15 |
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| lixinhui | I think it is not reasonable to submit patch into lbaas any more | 13:15 |
| yanyanhu | Qiming, yes, have the save feeling for that patch | 13:16 |
| yanyanhu | anyway, it's their decision. | 13:16 |
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| lixinhui | so we are trying to use ocativia to emit event | 13:16 |
| lixinhui | then any listener can handle in their own way | 13:16 |
| Qiming | maybe need a ptl to ptl talk with them | 13:16 |
| yanyanhu | lixinhui, yes, that's pretty reasonable | 13:16 |
| lixinhui | no need to care about neutron-lbaas anymore | 13:16 |
| lixinhui | yes, agree Qiming :) | 13:17 |
| yanyanhu | so neutron-lbaas and ocaticia are two individual projects? | 13:17 |
| lixinhui | yes | 13:17 |
| yanyanhu | ocativia | 13:17 |
| yanyanhu | I see | 13:17 |
| lixinhui | neutron-lbaas is dying | 13:17 |
| yanyanhu | I thought they are the same project | 13:17 |
| Qiming | octavia | 13:18 |
| lixinhui | haha | 13:18 |
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| yanyanhu | :) | 13:18 |
| XueFengLiu | :) | 13:18 |
| haiwei_ | there is lbaasv2? | 13:19 |
| lixinhui | I will keep tracking the patch | 13:19 |
| lixinhui | that is my part | 13:19 |
| yanyanhu | so maybe we need to have further discussion on this issue | 13:19 |
| lixinhui | of update | 13:19 |
| lixinhui | Yes, Haiwei_ | 13:19 |
| yanyanhu | to see how to move on | 13:19 |
| lixinhui | lbaasv1 has been droped | 13:19 |
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| yanyanhu | yes, lbaasv2 is now the default enabled api | 13:20 |
| Qiming | neutron ptl is armax | 13:20 |
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| lixinhui | Michael Johnson is the octavia PTL | 13:20 |
| yanyanhu | octavia is part of neutron? | 13:20 |
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| Qiming | yes | 13:20 |
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| yanyanhu | or an individual project? | 13:20 |
| lixinhui | yes | 13:20 |
| Qiming | octavia has its own core team: https://review.openstack.org/#/admin/groups/370,members | 13:20 |
| lixinhui | they have the same weekly meeting with neutron | 13:21 |
| haiwei_ | lbaas is dying, lbaasv2 is the substitute？ | 13:21 |
| Qiming | http://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack/governance/tree/reference/projects.yaml#n2205 | 13:21 |
| Qiming | yes, I think so, haiwei_ | 13:21 |
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| yanyanhu | wait a minute, lbaasv1 is dying or lbaas project is dying? | 13:22 |
| elynn | Oh, I thought lbv2 is dying too | 13:22 |
| yanyanhu | I see | 13:22 |
| haiwei_ | thanks goddess , they are not dying both | 13:22 |
| yanyanhu | ... | 13:22 |
| lixinhui | lbaasv1 has been dropped | 13:22 |
| yanyanhu | yes, it is | 13:22 |
| haiwei_ | v1 is dead, v2 is dying? | 13:23 |
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| yanyanhu | I don't know, I'm listening :) | 13:23 |
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| lixinhui | I did not hear anything about v2 is dying | 13:23 |
| yanyanhu | sigh, if so, lbaas project is ok | 13:24 |
| yanyanhu | just its v1 api is deprecated which is expected | 13:24 |
| haiwei_ | it seems the advanced feature like lbaas , vpn are done by vendors themselves | 13:24 |
| lixinhui | ocativa will replace neutron-lbaas | 13:24 |
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| lixinhui | project | 13:24 |
| lixinhui | octavia | 13:24 |
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| lixinhui | they are on the path of transforming | 13:25 |
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| yanyanhu | replace? you mean enhancement or completely replacement | 13:25 |
| yanyanhu | so no more haproxy based lb | 13:25 |
| Qiming | deprecation | 13:25 |
| yanyanhu | only vm based one | 13:25 |
| lixinhui | that is another reason why we should not submit patch to the dying project | 13:26 |
| yanyanhu | and neutron-lbaas will be renamed to octivia? | 13:26 |
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| lixinhui | by default, octavia provide haproxy lb | 13:26 |
| Qiming | haproxy installed into a VM | 13:26 |
| lixinhui | and it provide driver for different vendors to plugin | 13:26 |
| yanyanhu | yes, this is what lbaas is doing now | 13:27 |
| lixinhui | so it is not necessary to have also neutron-lbaas... | 13:27 |
| yanyanhu | so octivia will replace lbaas in bigtent? | 13:27 |
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| lixinhui | no one ever mention big tent obviously | 13:28 |
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| yanyanhu | anyway, proposing patch to octivia is reasonable | 13:28 |
| elynn | http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2016-November/106911.html | 13:28 |
| XueFengLiu | Octavia is currently the reference backend for Neutron LBaaS. In the near future, Octavia is likely to become the standard OpenStack LBaaS API endpoint. | 13:28 |
| XueFengLiu | https://github.com/openstack/octavia | 13:29 |
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| lixinhui | Yes | 13:29 |
| yanyanhu | I see. | 13:29 |
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| Qiming | should we move on? we have been talking about this extraterrestrial project for 30 minutes | 13:30 |
| elynn | So customers who use lbv1 API will be easy to transfer to use octavia, right? | 13:30 |
| yanyanhu | so we just focusing on communication with octavia team | 13:30 |
| Qiming | 20 minutes, sorry | 13:30 |
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| yanyanhu | sorry, lets discuss this issue offline | 13:30 |
| yanyanhu | lets move on now | 13:30 |
| Qiming | ping the cores, send emails to mailinglist, we will find out | 13:30 |
| yanyanhu | no document update I think | 13:31 |
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| Qiming | no | 13:31 |
| yanyanhu | version request support | 13:31 |
| yanyanhu | almost done | 13:31 |
| yanyanhu | I will finish receiver part this week | 13:31 |
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| yanyanhu | I think XueFengLiu and lvdongbing's work has been done | 13:31 |
| yanyanhu | then we can anounce the first step is finished | 13:32 |
| lvdongbing | yes | 13:32 |
| XueFengLiu | Yes, only action create/delete need to do. | 13:32 |
| yanyanhu | XueFengLiu, thanks | 13:32 |
| Qiming | remove line 20? | 13:32 |
| yanyanhu | Qiming, yes | 13:32 |
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| yanyanhu | ok, next one, container profile | 13:33 |
| yanyanhu | hi, haiwei_ | 13:33 |
| * Qiming really enjoys pressing the DEL key | 13:33 | |
| yanyanhu | :) | 13:33 |
| haiwei_ | hi, yanyanhu, I think we need to discuss the image management of containers | 13:34 |
| yanyanhu | haiwei_, yes, that is an important issue | 13:34 |
| yanyanhu | currently, we can get image from glance I think? | 13:34 |
| yanyanhu | although it is not layered | 13:34 |
| haiwei_ | I think the next step maybe the image jobs, what do you think Qiming | 13:34 |
| Qiming | what do you mean by image jobs? | 13:35 |
| haiwei_ | I am think about using Zun yanyanhu | 13:35 |
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| haiwei_ | how to give the container an image | 13:35 |
| Qiming | glance? | 13:35 |
| Qiming | when you do glance image-create, you have this: | 13:36 |
| yanyanhu | yes, maybe this is the first choice, at least for now? | 13:36 |
| Qiming | --container-format <CONTAINER_FORMAT> | 13:36 |
| Qiming | Format of the container Valid values: None, ami, ari, | 13:36 |
| Qiming | aki, bare, ovf, ova, docker | 13:36 |
| haiwei_ | currently we only support downloading the images from the docker lab | 13:36 |
| haiwei_ | not the vm's image | 13:36 |
| Qiming | 'container-format docker' | 13:37 |
| Qiming | what does that mean? | 13:37 |
| haiwei_ | this is glance image-create? | 13:37 |
| Qiming | yes | 13:37 |
| XueFengLiu | It is | 13:37 |
| haiwei_ | never saw this before | 13:38 |
| yanyanhu | may need more investigation here before making decision :) | 13:38 |
| haiwei_ | we usually use bare for container-format | 13:38 |
| Qiming | okay | 13:38 |
| haiwei_ | ok, will check it | 13:38 |
| yanyanhu | haiwei_, great, thanks a lot | 13:38 |
| XueFengLiu | this means we can upload a docker image to glance | 13:38 |
| Qiming | current docker profile relies on docker to parse and download the image | 13:38 |
| XueFengLiu | use glance-create, I thiknk | 13:39 |
| yanyanhu | Qiming, yes, it is now | 13:39 |
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| Qiming | em ... primary use case was for nova-docker I think | 13:39 |
| lvdongbing | that's the way nova-docker used to work | 13:39 |
| yanyanhu | so maybe an important issue is figuring out how to consume container image stored in glance | 13:39 |
| Qiming | not sure how useful it is if we let docker(d) to check the image | 13:39 |
| yanyanhu | zun has the same problem I think | 13:40 |
| Qiming | the assumption is that the controller node has access to either the public hub or a local registry | 13:40 |
| Qiming | it sounds more of the configuration/deployment topic than a senlin programming job ? | 13:40 |
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| yanyanhu | Qiming, yes it is | 13:41 |
| haiwei_ | if the image is not uploaded to glance, glance will download it from public lib and then support it to other project? | 13:41 |
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| yanyanhu | maybe this can be a property of container profile? | 13:42 |
| yanyanhu | haiwei_, not sure about how it works | 13:42 |
| Qiming | if wanted, user (of a public cloud) can create a vm for storing his private docker images, then start a container cluster referencing images stored there? | 13:42 |
| Qiming | docker determines the registry using tag, .... | 13:42 |
| yanyanhu | Qiming, you mean local registry for each container cluster? | 13:42 |
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| haiwei_ | why use a vm to store the images? | 13:43 |
| Qiming | just want to say that is possible | 13:43 |
| Qiming | for public cloud | 13:43 |
| haiwei_ | ok | 13:43 |
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| yanyanhu | maybe we can collect different options and then have a dicussion to see which way is better | 13:43 |
| Qiming | for private cloud, you can build it somewhere so long the controller node can access its 5000 port | 13:43 |
| yanyanhu | haiwei_, maybe we can collect all possible options in an etherpad | 13:44 |
| haiwei_ | ok, yanyanhu, will create one | 13:44 |
| yanyanhu | and we can leave comments there | 13:44 |
| yanyanhu | haiwei_, great, thanks :) | 13:44 |
| yanyanhu | ok, only 15 minutes left | 13:44 |
| yanyanhu | lets move to next topic | 13:45 |
| yanyanhu | event/notification | 13:45 |
| yanyanhu | hi, Qiming, your turn | 13:45 |
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| Qiming | okay, almost done | 13:46 |
| yanyanhu | great | 13:46 |
| Qiming | common interface abstracted | 13:46 |
| yanyanhu | https://blueprints.launchpad.net/senlin/+spec/generic-event | 13:46 |
| Qiming | no reviews yet | 13:46 |
| Qiming | may have to approve it myself | 13:46 |
| Qiming | next thing would be about the configuration part | 13:47 |
| Qiming | making 'database' and 'message' two plugins | 13:47 |
| Qiming | and load them via steverdore | 13:47 |
| Qiming | add senlin.conf section/options to control when/how to log ... | 13:48 |
| yanyanhu | sounds great | 13:48 |
| yanyanhu | about the message way, so the messages will be published to a public queue? | 13:48 |
| Qiming | yes | 13:48 |
| yanyanhu | which is accessable for all openstack services | 13:49 |
| yanyanhu | I see | 13:49 |
| Qiming | it is controller plane thing | 13:49 |
| Qiming | irrelevant to zaqar | 13:49 |
| yanyanhu | this is also what we expect octavia to do :) | 13:49 |
| yanyanhu | Qiming, I see | 13:49 |
| Qiming | zaqar is USER-FACING message queue | 13:49 |
| yanyanhu | yes | 13:50 |
| yanyanhu | sorry for didn't get time to review the code. Will check it tomorrow | 13:50 |
| Qiming | if you have check the code: | 13:50 |
| yanyanhu | Qiming, please feel free to self approve to avoid denpendency issue | 13:50 |
| Qiming | 85 def _emit(self, context, event_type, publisher_id, payload): | 13:50 |
| Qiming | 86 notifier = messaging.get_notifier(publisher_id) | 13:50 |
| Qiming | 87 notify = getattr(notifier, self.priority) | 13:50 |
| Qiming | 88 notify(context, event_type, payload) | 13:50 |
| Qiming | that is all | 13:50 |
| yanyanhu | looks simple | 13:51 |
| yanyanhu | get_notifier is provided by oslo? | 13:51 |
| Qiming | yes | 13:51 |
| yanyanhu | I mean the backend logic | 13:51 |
| yanyanhu | I see | 13:51 |
| Qiming | we have a thin wrapper over it | 13:51 |
| Qiming | also pretty simple | 13:52 |
| yanyanhu | oh, is there any limit about publishing message to this public queue in control plane? | 13:52 |
| Qiming | don't think so | 13:52 |
| Qiming | it is the same message service for rpc | 13:52 |
| yanyanhu | I mean if a service publishs too many messages, it could break the queue? | 13:53 |
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| Qiming | no experience | 13:53 |
| yanyanhu | me neither... | 13:53 |
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| Qiming | if you have ever checked events collected by ceilometer, you will realize that we are very cautious on this | 13:54 |
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| yanyanhu | yep | 13:54 |
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| Qiming | if you compare this to the number of RPC calls received by keystone | 13:54 |
| yanyanhu | I know ceilometer gets lots of message from other services | 13:54 |
| Qiming | by neutron | 13:54 |
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| Qiming | things we are sending are trivial | 13:54 |
| yanyanhu | yes, compared with others | 13:55 |
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| Qiming | also compare to what nova is sending out: http://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack/nova/tree/nova/notifications/objects/instance.py#n246 | 13:55 |
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| yanyanhu | @@ | 13:56 |
| yanyanhu | message for each status switching for each instance | 13:56 |
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| Qiming | so I'm not that worried about it | 13:57 |
| yanyanhu | ok, seems we don't need to worry about this issue | 13:57 |
| yanyanhu | yep | 13:57 |
| Qiming | in addition, we are making the behavior configurable | 13:57 |
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| yanyanhu | I see | 13:58 |
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| yanyanhu | ok, these are all workitems on the list | 13:58 |
| yanyanhu | the time is almost done | 13:58 |
| yanyanhu | any more update? | 13:58 |
| yanyanhu | if not, will end the meeting. | 13:58 |
| yanyanhu | hi, lixinhui, still there? | 13:59 |
| yanyanhu | if it's ok, want to talk with you about the patch for octavia | 13:59 |
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| yanyanhu | we can discuss how to work on it together | 13:59 |
| yanyanhu | to push it move on | 13:59 |
| yanyanhu | ok, time is over. Thanks you guys for joining | 14:00 |
| yanyanhu | have a good night | 14:00 |
| yanyanhu | #endmeeting | 14:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 14:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Nov 29 14:00:12 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 14:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/senlin/2016/senlin.2016-11-29-13.00.html | 14:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/senlin/2016/senlin.2016-11-29-13.00.txt | 14:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/senlin/2016/senlin.2016-11-29-13.00.log.html | 14:00 |
| XueFengLiu | good night | 14:00 |
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| saggi | #startmeeing karbor | 15:01 |
| saggi | #startmeeting karbor | 15:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Nov 29 15:01:56 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is saggi. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 15:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 15:01 |
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| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: karbor)" | 15:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'karbor' | 15:02 |
| saggi | Hi everyone | 15:02 |
| xiangxinyong | hi saggi | 15:02 |
| leon_wang | saggi: hi saggi | 15:02 |
| yuval | hey | 15:02 |
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| saggi | There are no agenda items AFAIK | 15:02 |
| saggi | but I think we can discuss the spec for the protection plugin design | 15:03 |
| saggi | since it's a hot matter of contention | 15:03 |
| yuval | saggi: yep, I agree | 15:03 |
| chenying | ok | 15:03 |
| saggi | #topic protection plugin spec | 15:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "protection plugin spec (Meeting topic: karbor)" | 15:03 | |
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| saggi | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/397156/ | 15:04 |
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| saggi | The main issue of contention seems to be complexity. | 15:05 |
| chenying | My oppions is that spilt the backup action to several hooks, it too complex for vendors to integrate their solutions. | 15:05 |
| zengchen | saggi:yes | 15:05 |
| yuval | From what I understand, this seem complex. As a matter of fact, most of the plugin api is optional, and implementing straight-forward plugins should be relatively easy | 15:05 |
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| saggi | As the spec says much of the features are optional. There is nothing stopping people from just implementing the main callback | 15:06 |
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| saggi | it will cause everything to run in parallel | 15:06 |
| saggi | The rest of the hooks are for specialized use cases | 15:06 |
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| saggi | Though we already know of use cases where a protection plugin will have to use some of the hooks | 15:07 |
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| zengchen | saggi:at present, there is a scenario that protect service can not support. | 15:08 |
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| saggi | zengchen: what scenario? | 15:09 |
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| zengchen | saggi:if user want to protect whole vm with their own plugin which just input id of vm. | 15:09 |
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| zengchen | saggi:karbor will fetch the volumes attached to the vm to protect together. | 15:10 |
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| zhonghua_ | hi | 15:10 |
| saggi | In the context of karbor there is no such thing as protecting the whole vm since you don't know what resources are related to the VM. What does make since is being responsible for some of the resources. | 15:10 |
| zengchen | saggi:but user just has one plugin that protect vm | 15:11 |
| saggi | For example having a plugin for VM and Volumes | 15:11 |
| leon_wang | saggi:agree | 15:11 |
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| saggi | This will work with the paradigm we suggest. | 15:11 |
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| saggi | The plugin will register for volume and vm | 15:12 |
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| saggi | when it reaches the prepare stage it will get the sub tree | 15:12 |
| saggi | it will get all the information it needs and prepare information for the main phase | 15:12 |
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| saggi | which could just be sending the instruction somwhere else and waiting on the result | 15:13 |
| chenying | saggi: Why do you think the plugins don't know the resources are related to the VM? As I know, several vendor has the solution to protect all vm, only need the id of vm. | 15:13 |
| saggi | The the plugin could just no-op for volume | 15:13 |
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| saggi | and have the main just track the main VM task | 15:13 |
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| saggi | or, if the service gives detailed progress. Show progress related to the resource. | 15:14 |
| chenying | saggi: There are some workflow in ther backup software like NBU or simpala, to fetch get related volumes about the protected vm. | 15:14 |
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| zengchen | saggi:i think your description is karbor's solution. it may be right. but it is not appropirate to integrate the vendor's solution. | 15:15 |
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| yuval | chenying: if the nbu/simpala karbor plugin registers to protect both VM and Volumes, it can send nbu/simpala the VM, and do nothing for volumes or wait until the VM protect is complete | 15:15 |
| chenying | In this scenario, the vendors only need dev a plugins about the main VM task, don't need dev a plugins about volume. | 15:16 |
| chenying | yuval I think so | 15:16 |
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| saggi | zengchen: They need to specify that the volumes are taken care of. Since Karbor needs to know that this type is accounted for. | 15:16 |
| leon_wang | chenying: has these vendors provided solutions integrating with VMs now? | 15:17 |
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| saggi | zengchen: Whatever the vendors protect we need to save information in the checkpoint about the result of the protection. | 15:18 |
| leon_wang | chenying: and is it possible for karbor to seamlessly integrate them? | 15:18 |
| chenying | leon_wang: simpala plan to integrate the vm protection solution with Karbor, but I am not when to integrate with karbor. | 15:19 |
| zengchen | saggi:maybe we should think more about how to integrate vendor's solution easily. because that is one of karbor's mission. | 15:19 |
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| leon_wang | zengchen: yeah, also reduce our work. | 15:19 |
| saggi | zengchen: That is what we are thinking about. What we know is that different vendors protect different things. This is why we need the ProtectionPlugin to specify what it protects and handle status and progress saving per resource. | 15:21 |
| saggi | I don't see a way around this. Let's say that the protection failed because on of the volumes failed. We want to show it to the user. For this we need to know to get information about volumes. | 15:21 |
| zhonghua_ | hey, sorry, I am late, but where can I find the agenda for this meeting? so that I can caught up with you. | 15:21 |
| saggi | zhonghua_: We are talking about this spec [ https://review.openstack.org/#/c/397156/ ] | 15:21 |
| zhonghua_ | saggi: thanks | 15:22 |
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| leon_wang | saggi:i think it would be better if the vendor can open these interface to karbor. | 15:22 |
| yuval | I think there are two questions here: 1) does this API fits common vendor use cases 2) is this API easy to understand/use | 15:23 |
| zengchen | saggi:as i said in that patch, yuval's design is very good. can we define simpler interfaces and move the yuval's desgin and resource dependency analysing etc as karbor's default solution? | 15:23 |
| yuval | sometimes, making the API flexible so it fits common use cases, might make it a bit more complex | 15:23 |
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| yuval | this is why most hooks are optional, and writing a simple plugin requires only one main hook | 15:24 |
| saggi | zengchen: I don't understand what you think is complex. The dependency graph building or the ProtectionPlugin interface. | 15:24 |
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| chenying | leon_wang: some vendor have already open the restAPI about their backupsoftwares, I don't think this is a problow, | 15:24 |
| leon_wang | chenying: got it, thanks | 15:25 |
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| zengchen | saggi:take Heat as an exmple. it just define two interfaces for resource plugin to create resource. they are 'handle_create', 'check_create_complete' | 15:25 |
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| zengchen | saggi:as yuval's design, one plugin has 5 interfaces and some are optional. | 15:26 |
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| saggi | zengchen: 4 hooks | 15:27 |
| zengchen | saggi:yuval's design is good. but IMO, it is one of solution to protect. | 15:27 |
| saggi | zengchen: This is because they don't need the prepare phase. | 15:27 |
| saggi | The prepare phase is the most complex | 15:27 |
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| saggi | but it can wield a lot of benefit | 15:27 |
| saggi | for example | 15:27 |
| zengchen | saggi:i know, it is flexible. it is good. | 15:28 |
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| saggi | If you have a VM with 3 volumes. You need to take a snapshot for each and copy the data to 3 different sites. | 15:28 |
| saggi | Taking the snapshots should be done at the same time | 15:28 |
| saggi | copying can be done later | 15:28 |
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| saggi | if we have only one hook "main" | 15:29 |
| saggi | we put taking the snapshot and copying the data at the same place | 15:29 |
| saggi | copying the data could take a lot of time | 15:29 |
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| saggi | meaning that the snapshots might be made at drastically different points in time | 15:29 |
| zengchen | saggi:but for professional preotect software, they just need plugin to send small parameters to it. | 15:30 |
| saggi | So you should take the snapshot in prepare and then copy in main | 15:30 |
| saggi | zengchen: even some professional solutions might not support copying the data off site natively | 15:30 |
| saggi | zengchen: and for this solutions they don't need to implement the prepare phase | 15:31 |
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| saggi | They only need to implement one hook | 15:31 |
| saggi | all hooks are optional | 15:31 |
| saggi | But we can't only support vendors that have replication and snapshot built in | 15:32 |
| saggi | we need to also support vendors that only have snapshot | 15:32 |
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| zengchen | saggi:ok, i hold my idea. | 15:32 |
| yuval | zengchen: what's your idea? do you think we can minimize the amount of hooks? different api? | 15:33 |
| saggi | zengchen: Please rephrase that, I don't understand | 15:33 |
| zengchen | saggi:your idea is reasonable. but i still think it is too complex. so i hold my idea. | 15:34 |
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| saggi | zengchen: How do you suggest to solve the problem I suggested. | 15:34 |
| saggi | We need that for the Cinder implementation | 15:34 |
| saggi | zengchen: I also don't understand what your idea is. Just only having *main phase* and *complete phase* | 15:35 |
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| zengchen | saggi:maybe. | 15:36 |
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| zengchen | saggi:my idea is decribed in the comment. | 15:36 |
| zengchen | saggi:you can see it. | 15:36 |
| saggi | zengchen: I saw it. I can't see how it can solve the user case I proposed. | 15:37 |
| saggi | It will only work for the once case where everything is taken care of by someone else. | 15:37 |
| zengchen | saiig:ok, i will think more about your idea. | 15:37 |
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| xiangxinyong | I am confused with the relationship between this patch and full vm backup? | 15:38 |
| saggi | zengchen: We also have the quiesce use case, where we don't want to hold the VM in quiescent state for as little time as possible. | 15:39 |
| saggi | xiangxinyong: full vm backup is the easiest use case to support. It will ignore most of the features. | 15:39 |
| zengchen | saggi:i didn't refuse you and yuval's idea. | 15:40 |
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| saggi | zengchen: We also want you to agree :) | 15:40 |
| saggi | not just not refuse | 15:40 |
| zhonghua_ | why not invite some 3rd vendors to get their comments? | 15:40 |
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| chenying | saggi: IMO, we also need pay more attention to discuss these interfaces with backup software vendor about different resources portection solution. | 15:41 |
| xiangxinyong | saggi:ok | 15:41 |
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| yuval | zhonghua_: chenying: that sounds like a good idea | 15:41 |
| zhonghua_ | yuval: :) | 15:42 |
| xiangxinyong | chenying: As you said, the vendors will only pass the vm id into the plugin to protect whole vm? | 15:42 |
| zengchen | saggi:i just suggest that move your idea as the default solution. then user can develop their plugins by inherited default plugin. or the basic plugin. | 15:42 |
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| chenying | We need the comments about workflow and plugins interfaces form different vendors. | 15:43 |
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| chenying | xiangxinyong: As I know, it is. | 15:44 |
| saggi | zengchen: The way it's designed you don't need any base code. Any function you need you implement any that you don't you don | 15:44 |
| saggi | 't | 15:44 |
| yuval | chenying: the workflow is karbor internals. The plugin api is the most important part | 15:45 |
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| zengchen | saggi:sorry, not quite understand. | 15:46 |
| chenying | yuval Yes The plugin api is the most important part. Most of time, it is design for vendors, it is also very important for backup vendors. | 15:46 |
| zhonghua_ | yuval: chenying: +1 | 15:47 |
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| saggi | zengchen: I'll try and cook up some examples for how to do Full VM backup with this inteface | 15:47 |
| yuval | chenying: agrees | 15:48 |
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| zengchen | saggi:ok. maybe we should do it first. then return to check. | 15:49 |
| saggi | #topic open discussion | 15:49 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: karbor)" | 15:49 | |
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| saggi | Anything else for the last 10 minutes | 15:49 |
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| yuval | yes | 15:50 |
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| yuval | zhonghua_: I've seen some students contributing these days | 15:51 |
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| yuval | zhonghua_: would you like to share about your activities? | 15:51 |
| zengchen | i have subbit a spec on resolving token's expiration. so hope every guys can review it. | 15:51 |
| zhonghua_ | yuval: yeah, sure, but it held by xiangxinyog | 15:51 |
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| zhonghua_ | xiangxinyong: could you please share the communication activities? | 15:52 |
| chenying | I think we need add more fulltest about different portect flow and use cases. Now the tests in karbor is too simple. | 15:52 |
| zengchen | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/403330/ | 15:52 |
| chenying | zengchen: I will. | 15:53 |
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| xiangxinyong | yuval,saggi: you know our team make a hands-on like the summit in a university under zhonghua's lead | 15:53 |
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| zengchen | chenying:thanks. | 15:54 |
| xiangxinyong | and we introduce how to contribute in the openstack and karbor. | 15:54 |
| yuval | xiangxinyong: sounds great | 15:54 |
| xiangxinyong | and we prepared some blogs for students to operate step by step | 15:54 |
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| xiangxinyong | This is the team's blog.http://www.cnblogs.com/openstackteam/ | 15:55 |
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| zhonghua_ | xiangxinyong: great jobs | 15:55 |
| saggi | good work! | 15:56 |
| xiangxinyong | zhonghua_: thanks | 15:56 |
| leon_wang | xiangxinyong: Great job! | 15:56 |
| xiangxinyong | It's our team's work | 15:56 |
| zengchen | xiangxinyong:they are all chinese. are you sure saggi & yuval can understand? | 15:56 |
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| chenying | well done! | 15:56 |
| saggi | we'll try and use google translate | 15:56 |
| xiangxinyong | because the whole team was arrived the university and help the students to do some practice | 15:57 |
| zengchen | saggi::) | 15:57 |
| xiangxinyong | zengchen:) | 15:57 |
| xiangxinyong | but we need to help the students to raise the experience in OpenStack | 15:57 |
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| xiangxinyong | zhonghua makes a very good speech about barcelona summit in the university | 15:58 |
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| saggi | OK, I don't know if you guys know but Yuval will be unavailable next week. Feel free to bug me about things. | 15:58 |
| xiangxinyong | and the whole team members helped the students to make pratice | 15:59 |
| leon_wang | xiangxinyong: i think it's a good way to help us perfect our use cases. | 15:59 |
| xiangxinyong | saggi: sure | 15:59 |
| xiangxinyong | leon_wang:) | 15:59 |
| saggi | Are window is up | 15:59 |
| saggi | our | 15:59 |
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| saggi | we can continue on #openstack-karbor | 15:59 |
| xiangxinyong | bye | 15:59 |
| saggi | #endmeeting | 15:59 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 15:59 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Nov 29 15:59:48 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 15:59 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/karbor/2016/karbor.2016-11-29-15.01.html | 15:59 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/karbor/2016/karbor.2016-11-29-15.01.txt | 15:59 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/karbor/2016/karbor.2016-11-29-15.01.log.html | 15:59 |
| leon_wang | bye everyone | 15:59 |
| yuval | bye all | 16:00 |
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| chenying | bye | 16:00 |
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| sripriya | #startmeeting tacker | 16:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Nov 29 16:00:34 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is sripriya. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 16:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 16:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: tacker)" | 16:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'tacker' | 16:00 |
| sripriya | hi tackers | 16:00 |
| sripriya | #topic Roll Call | 16:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Roll Call (Meeting topic: tacker)" | 16:00 | |
| tbh | o/ | 16:00 |
| dkushwaha | o/ | 16:00 |
| tung_doan | o/ | 16:01 |
| aimeeu | hi | 16:01 |
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| sridhar_ram | howdy all! | 16:02 |
| tung_doan | sridhar_ram: nice to have you back :) | 16:02 |
| sripriya | tbh dkushwaha tung_doan aimeeu hello! | 16:02 |
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| dkushwaha | hi sridhar_ram good to see you here | 16:02 |
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| tbh | Hi sridhar_ram | 16:02 |
| diga | Hi | 16:03 |
| sripriya | sridhar_ram: very huge welcome back! | 16:03 |
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| sridhar_ram | tung_doan: dkushwaha: tbh: thanks! | 16:03 |
| dkushwaha | sridhar_ram, how are you now? | 16:03 |
| sripriya | sridhar_ram: happy to have you back | 16:03 |
| neeldhwaj | Hello | 16:03 |
| diga | sridhar_ram: welcome back! | 16:03 |
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| sridhar_ram | sripriya: thanks for running the tacker ship, looks you didn't miss a beat...! | 16:03 |
| sripriya | diga: neeldhwaj hello | 16:03 |
| KanagarajM | hi | 16:03 |
| sridhar_ram | diga: thanks | 16:03 |
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| diga | sridhar_ram: welcome! | 16:04 |
| sripriya | sridhar_ram: nothing comparable to you :-) you do it best :-) | 16:04 |
| diga | sripriya: hi | 16:04 |
| sripriya | sridhar_ram: but thank you | 16:04 |
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| sripriya | and thanks to the team! | 16:04 |
| sridhar_ram | ^^ yes.. thanks team! | 16:04 |
| KanagarajM | sridhar_ram, hope you are fine now ! | 16:04 |
| sridhar_ram | still catching up, will hang back for this meeting.. please carry on | 16:05 |
| sridhar_ram | KanagarajM: thanks! | 16:05 |
| sripriya | alright let us get started | 16:05 |
| sripriya | #topic agenda | 16:05 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "agenda (Meeting topic: tacker)" | 16:05 | |
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| sripriya | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/Tacker#Meeting_Nov_28th.2C_2016 | 16:05 |
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| sripriya | let us quickly go through the meeting time update and dsvm error, later we can discuss on the specs | 16:05 |
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| sripriya | #topic revisit weekly meeting time | 16:06 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "revisit weekly meeting time (Meeting topic: tacker)" | 16:06 | |
| sripriya | sridhar_ram: i know you had suggestion to change the weekly meeting update i guess even before the barcelona summit to gather all developers across TZs | 16:07 |
| sripriya | sridhar_ram: do we need to have a doodle poll for a new weekly meeting time? | 16:07 |
| sridhar_ram | sripriya: yes, particularly with the shifting out of daylight saving... | 16:07 |
| sridhar_ram | sripriya: we can do a doodle poll, | 16:08 |
| sridhar_ram | if we can quickly sample here.. does anyone have major issue if we push this meeting my 1hr? | 16:08 |
| sridhar_ram | s/my/by/ | 16:08 |
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| sridhar_ram | 1700 UTC | 16:09 |
| sripriya | sridhar_ram: fine with me | 16:09 |
| sridhar_ram | how about folks in Asia ? | 16:09 |
| tung_doan | sridhar_ram: seems like hard for me :( | 16:09 |
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| dkushwaha | sripriya, 1 hour prior | 16:09 |
| sridhar_ram | tung_doan: ack | 16:09 |
| tbh | sridhar_ram, sripriya I am fine with that | 16:10 |
| diga | Fine with me too | 16:10 |
| sridhar_ram | okay, will send a doodle poll out | 16:11 |
| sridhar_ram | for the record, current 1600UTC / 8AM is not possible for me. | 16:11 |
| sripriya | sridhar_ram: looks like folks are okay except tung_doan and others in asia pacific TZ | 16:11 |
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| tung_doan | dkushwaha: how are you, bro? :) | 16:12 |
| sridhar_ram | sripriya: anyone else joins from APAC ? | 16:12 |
| tung_doan | dkushwaha: how about you, bro? :) | 16:12 |
| sridhar_ram | dkushwaha: are you still in Japan? | 16:12 |
| sripriya | sridhar_ram: i know gongysh is interested to join the meetings | 16:12 |
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| dkushwaha | sridhar_ram, tung_doan yes, will be back to India in next week | 16:12 |
| sridhar_ram | sripriya: oh yes, we miss him due to the meeting timing | 16:12 |
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| sripriya | sridhar_ram: and i guess few other folks from NEC | 16:12 |
| sridhar_ram | one option is we can go really early in US pacific.. say, 6:30AM | 16:13 |
| sridhar_ram | or 6AM | 16:13 |
| sripriya | sridhar_ram: :) | 16:13 |
| sridhar_ram | will send a doodle poll and we can take it from there.. | 16:14 |
| sripriya | sridhar_ram: sounds good, | 16:14 |
| sripriya | #action create a doodle poll for new weekly meeting time | 16:14 |
| sripriya | is this the tag sridhar_ram? :) | 16:14 |
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| sridhar_ram | yep! | 16:15 |
| sripriya | ok cool | 16:15 |
| sripriya | moving on | 16:15 |
| sripriya | #topic dsvm gate job update | 16:15 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "dsvm gate job update (Meeting topic: tacker)" | 16:15 | |
| sripriya | tung_doan: thanks for actively looking into dsvm job error and actively fixing it | 16:16 |
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| sripriya | tung_doan: it will be good to give the team an update on the dsvm error fix | 16:16 |
| tung_doan | sripriya: np.. latest patch was fix networking-sfc plugin | 16:16 |
| tung_doan | sripriya: the problem now is back to tacker :( | 16:17 |
| tung_doan | sripriya: http://logs.openstack.org/79/382479/18/check/gate-tacker-dsvm-functional-ubuntu-xenial-nv/9e5a8c3/logs/devstacklog.txt.gz | 16:17 |
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| sripriya | tung_doan: are you referring to OVS_UPDATE variable? | 16:17 |
| tung_doan | sripriya: got the error: http://logs.openstack.org/79/382479/18/check/gate-tacker-dsvm-functional-ubuntu-xenial-nv/9e5a8c3/logs/devstacklog.txt.gz | 16:18 |
| tung_doan | sripriya: yes, it made sense now | 16:18 |
| sridhar_ram | specifically here .. http://logs.openstack.org/79/382479/18/check/gate-tacker-dsvm-functional-ubuntu-xenial-nv/9e5a8c3/logs/devstacklog.txt.gz#_2016-11-29_12_45_00_796 | 16:19 |
| sridhar_ram | RegionOne not found | 16:19 |
| sripriya | tung_doan: at least we went past the linux kernel version error and now seeing a new error | 16:19 |
| sripriya | tung_doan: is this consistent? | 16:19 |
| tung_doan | sridhar_ram: right. that's my concern | 16:19 |
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| tung_doan | srippriya: +1 | 16:20 |
| sripriya | tung_doan: we will have to look into the logs closely , not sure what is messing the tacker endpoint creations in keystone | 16:21 |
| tung_doan | srippriya: agree | 16:21 |
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| sripriya | tung_doan: a quick look at the logs, i do not see the nfv-orchestration endpoints created | 16:22 |
| sripriya | tung_doan: we can debug it further after the meeting | 16:22 |
| tung_doan | srippriya: ok | 16:23 |
| sripriya | moving on | 16:23 |
| sripriya | #topic NSD spec | 16:23 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "NSD spec (Meeting topic: tacker)" | 16:23 | |
| sripriya | dkushwaha: i think we are close to merging the NSD spec, there were few comments related to input and output params support for NSD | 16:24 |
| dkushwaha | sripriya, yes, currently we have to fix the input handling issues. | 16:24 |
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| tbh | sripriya, and I have one more qq on the template part | 16:24 |
| dkushwaha | sripriya, we are looking for the way to pass vnf into nsd | 16:25 |
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| sripriya | dkushwaha: okay, i saw sridhar_ram suggesting the nested param template as input file for ns create | 16:25 |
| sripriya | tbh: shoot | 16:25 |
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| sripriya | bobh_: are you around? | 16:25 |
| tbh | sripriya, we have to define the VNF1 in the vnfd for example L# 169 in https://review.openstack.org/#/c/334370/8/samples/tosca-templates/nsd/tosca-nsd.yaml | 16:26 |
| tbh | sripriya, so that part is the new change in VNFD | 16:26 |
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| sridhar_ram | folks - i just pushed few comments | 16:26 |
| * sridhar_ram forgot to click the reply button | 16:27 | |
| sripriya | tbh: ack, yes | 16:27 |
| tbh | sridhar_ram, one of your comment regarding creation of VL | 16:27 |
| sripriya | tbh: i know this needs a change in vnfd template too to integrate it into NSD | 16:27 |
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| sripriya | tbh: do you have the sample VNFD also? | 16:27 |
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| sripriya | sridhar_ram: will take a look | 16:28 |
| tbh | sripriya, yes we need to refer only existing neutron network there | 16:28 |
| sridhar_ram | tbh: my question is .. do we support any node types in NSD other than VNF | 16:28 |
| tbh | sripriya, http://paste.openstack.org/show/590813/ http://paste.openstack.org/show/590814/ | 16:28 |
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| tbh | sridhar_ram, we can declare VL too | 16:29 |
| sridhar_ram | tbh: okay, can be used to refer to existing networks but not create new networks ? | 16:29 |
| tbh | sridhar_ram, for new networks, my concern is ... we may define the same network in VNFD also, so I think it will be conflicting | 16:30 |
| dkushwaha | sridhar_ram, sripriya, tbh we need to mention CP also nsd template as for ns end point | 16:30 |
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| bobh_ | sripriya: sorry I'm late | 16:30 |
| tbh | dkushwaha, that can we can pass as forwarder as per the spec http://docs.oasis-open.org/tosca/tosca-nfv/v1.0/csd03/tosca-nfv-v1.0-csd03.html#_Toc447714731 | 16:31 |
| sridhar_ram | tbh: it is okay to not support creating new networks in NSD for now.. it is useful, but we can take it up in follow ons. | 16:31 |
| sridhar_ram | tbh: i was trying to understand the scope of this initial NSD effort | 16:31 |
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| sripriya | tbh: i do see the substitution_mappings added to vnfd template | 16:32 |
| tbh | sripriya, yes | 16:32 |
| sripriya | bobh_: no worries, we were just discussing the NSD spec and addressing the comments | 16:32 |
| sripriya | tbh: is the new updated syntax which you pushed earlier? | 16:33 |
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| tbh | sridhar_ram, currently we are defining APIs for NS and support creation of NS with out creating the forwarding path | 16:33 |
| sridhar_ram | tbh: again, fair enough.. but it will be good to capture these in the spec.. | 16:33 |
| tbh | sripriya, this is the new updated syntax, but no major changes except defining new node type in VNFD | 16:33 |
| sripriya | tbh: ack | 16:35 |
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| dkushwaha | sripriya, bobh_ do we needs to handle vnfd output in nsd? | 16:35 |
| tbh | sripriya, sridhar_ram sure will update the spec, still looking for the ways to pass input params | 16:35 |
| sripriya | dkushwaha: going back to input param support for nsd, are we going with the nested template as an input for nsd? | 16:36 |
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| sripriya | sridhar_ram: does it make sense to give them as separate input files for nsd? | 16:36 |
| bobh_ | dkushwaha: If the NSD is deploying a collection of VNFs then it should handle the inputs/outputs of those VNFs as necessary | 16:36 |
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| sripriya | bobh_: we do not support specifying outputs for VNFD today | 16:36 |
| dkushwaha | sripriya, sridhar_ram please check https://review.openstack.org/#/c/334370/8/samples/tosca-templates/nsd/tosca-nsd-param.yaml | 16:37 |
| sridhar_ram | sripriya: I'm leaning towards using a "single" NS param input file | 16:37 |
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| sridhar_ram | dkushwaha: looks good to me, inline with what i proposed in my latest comments | 16:37 |
| sripriya | sridhar_ram: okay, it can become a lengthy nested file at some point | 16:37 |
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| tbh | sridhar_ram, why do we need params specified for VDUs specifically? | 16:38 |
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| sridhar_ram | sripriya: understood but it is still better compared to other option | 16:38 |
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| tbh | sridhar_ram, instead we can specify input params per VNF? | 16:39 |
| sridhar_ram | tbh: then we need to worry about VNF <--> param file mapping | 16:40 |
| sripriya | sridhar_ram: tbh: and also the order... | 16:40 |
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| sridhar_ram | tbh: .. and there is an extreme case of an NSD with high number of VNFs (like vIMS) where it just becomes painful | 16:41 |
| tbh | sridhar_ram, if we pass params per VNF, we can use the existing API for vnf-create (by passing parameters) | 16:41 |
| tbh | sripriya, can you give an example of maintaining the order? | 16:42 |
| tbh | sripriya, I mean in which cases we have to maintain the order? | 16:42 |
| sridhar_ram | tbh: with a single NS param file we can still use existing vnf-create API... just the NS logic should extract the params related to a specific VNF from the single NS param file | 16:43 |
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| sridhar_ram | tbh: i've an example in my latest comment in PS17 | 16:43 |
| sridhar_ram | tbh: it is similar to dkushwaha above link | 16:43 |
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| sripriya | tbh: nsd might have the vnf order in a specific way, but if we are mapping it based on the vnfd name, i'm not sure how we would maintain the order while specifying the template | 16:43 |
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| sridhar_ram | sripriya: indexing off node name would be the way to go.. ns_param[vnf_node_name] dict | 16:45 |
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| sridhar_ram | again see https://review.openstack.org/#/c/334370/8/samples/tosca-templates/nsd/tosca-nsd-param.yaml,unified | 16:46 |
| bobh_ | I don't think the params need to be necessarily VNF-specific - you may have NSD params that map to multiple VNF inputs | 16:46 |
| tbh | sridhar_ram, sripriya I was thinking something like this http://paste.openstack.org/show/590855/ | 16:46 |
| sridhar_ram | tbh: that would work | 16:46 |
| sripriya | sridhar_ram: tbh: this is vnfd rightt and not vnf | 16:47 |
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| sridhar_ram | bobh_: to support that, we need some sort of an inherited scope | 16:47 |
| tbh | sripriya, name give while onboarding VNFD | 16:47 |
| sripriya | tbh: correct | 16:48 |
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| sridhar_ram | sripriya: params comes into play only at runtime.. so ns-create --> vnf-create | 16:48 |
| bobh_ | sridhar_ram: Can't the NSD pass parameters into the VNFs using get_input the same way a VNFD does? | 16:48 |
| sripriya | sridhar_ram: yes but we map it based on vnfd names provided in nsd create for vnf creation | 16:49 |
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| bobh_ | sridhar_ram: I'm not sure I understand how this is expected to work - to me it is just a collection of VNF references that use the same TOSCA conventions as the VNFDs | 16:49 |
| sridhar_ram | bobh_: my understanding is the NSD processing logic wouldn't look / do VNFD processing.. can someone confirm if this assumption is correct ? | 16:50 |
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| tbh | sridhar_ram, bobh_ when we run ns-create 1)we validate the nsd | 16:51 |
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| sripriya | sridhar_ram: at nsd level, it is just parsing and calling the vnf-create api | 16:51 |
| sridhar_ram | sripriya: ack, that is my understanding.. | 16:51 |
| tbh | 2)collect the params from param file | 16:51 |
| tbh | 3)call vnf-create with those params | 16:51 |
| dkushwaha | sridhar_ram, bobh_ vnfd will be onboarded | 16:51 |
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| tbh | 4)complete the ns-creation | 16:51 |
| sripriya | folks, quick time check, we have 8 mins left | 16:52 |
| sridhar_ram | so param substitution for VNFD will happen in the context of of VNF create within VNFM | 16:52 |
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| tbh | so here we are not giving NSD to heat-translator/heat | 16:52 |
| sripriya | i think we should continue on the tacker channel for this specific topic | 16:52 |
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| sridhar_ram | sripriya: sounds good.. | 16:53 |
| sripriya | let us quickly go through the pecan framework spec | 16:53 |
| sripriya | #topic Pecan framework spec | 16:53 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Pecan framework spec (Meeting topic: tacker)" | 16:53 | |
| sripriya | diga: ping | 16:53 |
| diga | sripriya: Hi | 16:53 |
| sripriya | diga: did you happen to chat with infra team on creating a new branch? | 16:53 |
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| diga | sripriya: I am working with infra to create seperate branch for pecan | 16:53 |
| diga | yes | 16:54 |
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| sripriya | diga: also, i do not see the spec describing the design details of the framework and how existing framework is refactored | 16:54 |
| diga | sripriya: they have shared some docs, going through those | 16:54 |
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| diga | sripriya: yes, will update the patch | 16:54 |
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| sridhar_ram | diga: can you please fwd them, i'm curious about branch creation process | 16:55 |
| diga | sridhar_ram: sure | 16:55 |
| sripriya | diga: i believe we should first get the spec completely finished and merged before we start creating a branch | 16:55 |
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| diga | sripriya: yes | 16:55 |
| sripriya | diga: until we get a better clarity of how pecan framework will better fit for Tacker, it hard to progress forward | 16:56 |
| diga | sripriya: okay | 16:56 |
| sripriya | diga: i request you to please update the proposed solution and design details | 16:56 |
| diga | sripriya: ok | 16:56 |
| sripriya | diga: i'm thinking we should talk more about the new controllers, extensions, attribute validation and impact on existing plugins | 16:56 |
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| sripriya | in the spec | 16:57 |
| sripriya | sorry here is the spec link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/368511/ for team to review | 16:57 |
| sridhar_ram | .. in addition to that, it would help if you can give an illustration of how new API can be added and how to write an handler in the spec | 16:57 |
| diga | sripriya: yes, I will cover all these point | 16:57 |
| sripriya | sridhar_ram: +1 | 16:57 |
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| sripriya | thanks diga! | 16:58 |
| diga | ok | 16:58 |
| diga | sripriya: welcome! | 16:58 |
| sripriya | #topic open discussion | 16:58 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: tacker)" | 16:58 | |
| sridhar_ram | Folks - here is the doodle poll for the meeting time... | 16:58 |
| sridhar_ram | #link http://doodle.com/poll/ee9p34kfhskd2ucc | 16:58 |
| sripriya | thanks for the link sridhar_ram | 16:58 |
| sridhar_ram | please set to your local TZ and select all the slots you can possibly attend | 16:59 |
| sripriya | time is up team | 16:59 |
| sripriya | thanks for joining the meeting | 16:59 |
| sripriya | #endmeeting tacker | 16:59 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 16:59 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Nov 29 16:59:32 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 16:59 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tacker/2016/tacker.2016-11-29-16.00.html | 16:59 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tacker/2016/tacker.2016-11-29-16.00.txt | 16:59 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tacker/2016/tacker.2016-11-29-16.00.log.html | 16:59 |
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| stevemar__ | o/ | 17:59 |
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| jgrassler | Hello | 17:59 |
| rodrigods | hey | 17:59 |
| browne | o/ | 18:00 |
| crinkle | o/ | 18:00 |
| stevemar__ | #startmeeting keystone | 18:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Nov 29 18:00:05 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is stevemar__. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 18:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 18:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:00 | |
| stevemar__ | howdy! | 18:00 |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'keystone' | 18:00 |
| gagehugo | o/ | 18:00 |
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| lbragstad | o/ | 18:00 |
| henrynash | tally-ho, chaps | 18:00 |
| stevemar__ | henrynash: chip chip | 18:00 |
| stevemar__ | #agenda https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/keystone-weekly-meeting | 18:00 |
| adriant | o/ | 18:00 |
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| stevemar__ | pokes amakarov, ayoung, bknudson, breton, browne, chrisplo, crinkle, davechen, dolphm, dstanek, edmondsw, edtubill, gagehugo, gyee, henrynash, hrybacki, jamielennox, jaugustine, jgrassler, knikolla, lbragstad, kbaikov, ktychkova, morgan, nisha, nkinder, notmorgan, raildo, ravelar, rderose, rodrigods, roxanaghe, samueldmq, shaleh, srwilkers, stevemar, topol, StefanPaetowJisc, agrebennikov | 18:01 |
| rderose | o/ | 18:01 |
| morgan_ | o/ | 18:01 |
| rodrigods | stevemar__, why are you stevemar__ and not stevemar? | 18:01 |
| knikolla | o/ | 18:01 |
| browne | o/ | 18:01 |
| jgrassler | o/ | 18:01 |
| jamielennox | o/ | 18:01 |
| morgan_ | rodrigods: he grew a tail | 18:01 |
| jaugustine | hello | 18:01 |
| cbits | Hi | 18:01 |
| stevemar__ | rodrigods: cause my bouncer and/or vm are not working | 18:01 |
| rodrigods | morgan_, you too | 18:01 |
| knikolla | stevemar____________________________________________ | 18:01 |
| gagehugo | ^ | 18:01 |
| morgan_ | rodrigods: because i'm lazy after reconfiguring irccloud | 18:01 |
| morgan_ | rodrigods: and haven't typed /nick morgan | 18:02 |
| stevemar__ | hi cbits, you're new around these parts :) | 18:02 |
| lamt | o/ | 18:02 |
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| ayoung | My F25 update broke and I am on a different machine...monitoring but bouncing back and forth to try and fix | 18:02 |
| cbits | Yes I am.. Nice to meet you all | 18:02 |
| stevemar__ | #topic release status | 18:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "release status (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:02 | |
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| rodrigods_ | ayoung, lol, had the same issue | 18:02 |
| henrynash | hi. cibts, welcome | 18:02 |
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| stevemar__ | just a reminder that Next milestone is Ocata-2 -- Week of Dec 12-16 | 18:02 |
| lbragstad | cbits o/ | 18:02 |
| stevemar__ | This is also spec freeze week, specs must merge by then | 18:02 |
| stevemar__ | such a short release :( | 18:03 |
| ayoung | rodrigods_, did you fix, or still dealing, too? | 18:03 |
| samueldmq | o/ | 18:03 |
| dstanek | o/ | 18:03 |
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| rodrigods_ | ayoung, fixed by wiping everything and re installing f24 | 18:03 |
| stevemar__ | let's try and land all the bps and bugs that touch a lot of things earlier than later | 18:03 |
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| stevemar__ | #topic Spec: "Extend user API to support federated attributes" | 18:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Spec: "Extend user API to support federated attributes" (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:04 | |
| stevemar__ | rderose: ^ | 18:04 |
| rderose | Cool | 18:04 |
| rderose | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/397410/ | 18:04 |
| rderose | The problem: I have a federated user and I want to do delegation or make a concrete role assignment, however in order to do that, I need the local user ID. | 18:04 |
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| rderose | And there is no way to query Keystone to get the user ID for federated users. | 18:05 |
| rderose | Likewise, federated users don’t exist in Keystone until after they authenticate. | 18:05 |
| rderose | Proposal: Let's simply extend the user API to support a federated object, allowing operators to: | 18:05 |
| rderose | Query users based on federated attributes (unique_id…) | 18:05 |
| ayoung | rderose, so, I don't like the formate: we should do it likethis: | 18:05 |
| rderose | Create federated users by including a federated object | 18:05 |
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| rderose | ayoung: what format would you suggest | 18:05 |
| ayoung | idp: "name" : protocols [ ...] | 18:05 |
| ayoung | need to support multiple idps and multiple protocols | 18:06 |
| rderose | ah, good point | 18:06 |
| ayoung | something that reflects that, linked to the same account. | 18:06 |
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| ayoung | other than that, you are on the right track | 18:06 |
| rodrigods_ | don't get it... we fetch the users without having them in the backend? | 18:06 |
| ayoung | rodrigods_, nah | 18:06 |
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| stevemar__ | rderose: if i make a post requet to /v3/users with federated bits in my request, it'll only create the entry in the federated_users table? | 18:07 |
| ayoung | rodrigods_, say a user comes in by one Idp/prtotocl, and then later via a different one...we should see how they link back to their IDP accounts | 18:07 |
| stevemar__ | rderose: the querying parts i don't mind | 18:07 |
| ayoung | rderose, does maybe it feel like this should be a separate API? | 18:07 |
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| rderose | stevemar__: no, it will create a user in the user table and federated_user table | 18:07 |
| stevemar__ | ayoung: a bit yes | 18:07 |
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| stevemar__ | rderose: two eh | 18:07 |
| rderose | ayoung: why not utilize the user API? | 18:08 |
| rodrigods | looks like it should be a different API | 18:08 |
| stevemar__ | rderose: why isn't that an issue? | 18:08 |
| ayoung | rderose, its related...but different eentities. | 18:08 |
| rodrigods | at least... we are exposing how things are implemented underneath | 18:08 |
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| lbragstad | it does the same thing as a shadow user being created through the federation authentication flow | 18:08 |
| rodrigods | which usually is not a good thing | 18:08 |
| rderose | a federated user is a user | 18:08 |
| ayoung | something like user/<id>/idps or something? | 18:08 |
| rderose | lbragstad: ++ | 18:08 |
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| ayoung | OK, for a user show...it probably is OK to have in there as is. | 18:09 |
| stevemar__ | lbragstad: thats a better explanation :) | 18:09 |
| ayoung | for affecting change...lets see what you have... | 18:09 |
| rodrigods | so the problem is to create role assignments prior the user has even been authenticated? | 18:09 |
| rderose | ayoung: and GET /v3/users/?unique_id={unique_id} | 18:09 |
| jamielennox | this seems limiting in any situation where the saem user has more that one login method | 18:09 |
| lbragstad | ayoung you mean it's ok to return federated attributes via the identity API? | 18:09 |
| ayoung | lbragstad, I'm wavering... don't think it would brek anything | 18:09 |
| lbragstad | i don't think we've tackled the account linking story yet... | 18:09 |
| rderose | jamielennox: this is the opposite of limiting, this is giving operators full control | 18:10 |
| ayoung | OK...what if we said we don;t want it as a POST, but had to be a PUT? | 18:10 |
| rderose | jamielennox: POST /v3/users/{id}/federated | 18:10 |
| rderose | { | 18:10 |
| rderose | "federated": { | 18:10 |
| rderose | "idp_id": "1789d1", | 18:10 |
| rderose | "protocol_id": saml2, | 18:10 |
| morgan | ayoung: it shouldn't break anything | 18:10 |
| rderose | "unique_id": "jdoe", | 18:10 |
| rderose | "display_name": "James Doe" | 18:10 |
| rderose | } | 18:10 |
| rderose | } | 18:10 |
| jamielennox | but in which case there is the possibility on multiple federated blocks | 18:10 |
| ayoung | what if we used the OS_FEDERATED URL scheme instead? | 18:10 |
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| stevemar__ | ayoung: thats what i was thinking, | 18:11 |
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| rderose | jamielennox: multiple federated blocks are okay for different IdPs | 18:11 |
| stevemar__ | can anyone think of the implications of this? | 18:11 |
| rodrigods | rderose, so this is to create the user prior they authenticate, right? | 18:11 |
| lbragstad | jamielennox are you proposing that is how we link accounts? | 18:11 |
| ayoung | PUT /v3/OS-FEDERATE/idp/"1789d1",/protocol/saml2,/user_unique_id/"jdoe" ... | 18:11 |
| rderose | rodrigods: yes | 18:11 |
| ayoung | I know, jdoe not guaranteed to be URL safe | 18:12 |
| rodrigods | rderose, how can we be sure they will be correctly linked? | 18:12 |
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| rodrigods | i mean... once the user authenticate, it won't create a different entry | 18:12 |
| jamielennox | lbragstad: no, but i'm thinking of a situation where we have linked accounts and in which case there are multiple of these per user | 18:12 |
| ayoung | if we had the user ID, we could do | 18:12 |
| rderose | ayoung stevemar__: we could use OS_FEDERATED, but I just think lets treat federated users like any other users and stop making them special | 18:12 |
| lbragstad | jamielennox right | 18:13 |
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| jamielennox | also i'm not sure i see the need for unique_id | 18:13 |
| ayoung | PUT /v3/OS-FEDERATE/idp/1789d1/protocol/saml2,/user_id with a payload of "unique_id": "jdoe", | 18:13 |
| ayoung | <rderose> "display_name": "James Doe" | 18:13 |
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| ayoung | rderose, yes and no | 18:13 |
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| morgan | jamielennox: it is because we need the bit from the federated idp to create the mapping | 18:13 |
| ayoung | rderose, I want FEderation to be the dfault way we work with KEystone's identity | 18:13 |
| rderose | rodrigods: no, because they will already be created; once they auth, we'll pull the existing user | 18:13 |
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| ayoung | I kindof hate the OS-FEDARTION part but that was not my doing .... | 18:13 |
| rodrigods | rderose, how will you assure this? | 18:14 |
| ayoung | should be just /idp.... | 18:14 |
| rderose | morgan: with this, we don't need the mapping | 18:14 |
| rderose | or mapping is optional | 18:14 |
| henrynash | redrose: what do you mean by “pull”, you mean delete? | 18:14 |
| ayoung | mapping needs to be pre-set | 18:14 |
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| lbragstad | rodrigods i think because we look up the user's federated bits and compare them to what we've already created, right? | 18:14 |
| stevemar__ | rderose: yep, i was realizing that :) | 18:14 |
| rderose | rodrigods: shadow users first looks if the user exists and if they don't just pulls that user | 18:14 |
| jamielennox | morgan: yea, was looking at the second post block where you already need the id, guess it makes sense from a new user perspective | 18:14 |
| rderose | doesn't create a new user | 18:14 |
| ayoung | I would liketo point Out that I suggested exactly this kind of API about a year ago....so, yeah, I like it. | 18:14 |
| stevemar__ | ayoung: < 1 year ago, in austin :) | 18:15 |
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| morgan | stevemar__: lol | 18:15 |
| stevemar__ | but yes, pretty much the same thing | 18:15 |
| ayoung | rderose, what you are looking for is something that will pre-create the user, right? | 18:15 |
| rderose | henrynash: I mean, when a federated user auth, we query for that user. if they exist, we user that user ID and if they don't, we create the user | 18:15 |
| ayoung | 2 us case: one user has never visited, 2 link new protocol to existing user? | 18:15 |
| henrynash | rderose: ok, got it | 18:16 |
| rderose | ayoung: essentially allowing operators to do manual provisioning | 18:16 |
| rderose | create user and assign role | 18:16 |
| stevemar__ | rderose: so hows the workflow for an operator? just create all X users one time? | 18:16 |
| rderose | stevemar__: no, shadow mapping will create users in mass | 18:16 |
| rderose | this will be for manual provisioning | 18:16 |
| dstanek | rderose: shaddow mapping? | 18:16 |
| rderose | or even things like get me the local user ID so that I can do delegation | 18:16 |
| rderose | dstanek: Shadow mapping will do the auto provisioning, but I still can’t query for the user ID if I want to do delegation or make a concrete role assignment. | 18:17 |
| rderose | dstanek: I see this going hand-in-hand with shadow mapping. Shadow mapping allows for provisioning in mass. While extending the API, allows for other common operations, such as delegation. | 18:17 |
| henrynash | what about a create user taht takes the input expected from the IDP as parameters and then we use the mapper to generat the ID (or maybe that is what you are suggesting) | 18:17 |
| rodrigods | henrynash, ++ | 18:17 |
| stevemar__ | okay, so not a total replacment for mapping engine bits | 18:17 |
| rodrigods | henrynash, that approach looks safer | 18:17 |
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| ayoung | rderose, ok, so to link an account to an existing user, you can do that all as a single PUT, where the data is the JSON version of the assertion | 18:18 |
| lbragstad | more or less another way to solve a similar problem | 18:18 |
| rderose | henrynash: either way, we will generate the user ID; ideally based on the federated attributes | 18:18 |
| ayoung | and the URL is based on the OS-FEDERATION url scheme. I'm OK if we drop the OS-FEDDERATION part from there though | 18:18 |
| dstanek | rderose: shadow mapping doesn't create multiple users at at time right? it just extends mapping to provision projects, etc? | 18:18 |
| ayoung | so /v3/idp is fine | 18:18 |
| rderose | ayoung: cool | 18:18 |
| lbragstad | dstanek right | 18:18 |
| dstanek | rderose: it must be based on the federated attributes | 18:19 |
| rderose | dstanek: ah, right | 18:19 |
| henrynash | rderose: if we do it the way I suggested then we are guarnteed to create the same ID, irrespective of whether it was generate by first auth or by this new api | 18:19 |
| ayoung | same thing for creating a user: use a POST, I think, is appropriate there. Then the controller and the router don't conflict with the existing user controller | 18:19 |
| rderose | dstanek: currently, it's uuid, but yes, it should be | 18:19 |
| rderose | henrynash: agree | 18:19 |
| rderose | ayoung: ++ | 18:20 |
| ayoung | for reporting information.... are we OK changing the output of the GET user ? | 18:20 |
| ayoung | or should it be a separate API? | 18:20 |
| lbragstad | ok - so regardless of how a fedearted use is created, the ID will be the same | 18:20 |
| stevemar__ | okay, this topic has eaten enough time, rderose the spec is getting favorable feedback, lets hash out some minor bits there, look for it to get approved | 18:20 |
| rodrigods | rderose, henrynash ++ that's was my concern | 18:20 |
| ayoung | From scratch I think I would be OK with a GET user...but can we be cautious here and start by just providing a new API? | 18:20 |
| rodrigods | ayoung, now that i understand better, i guess it should be the same API | 18:21 |
| jamielennox | i dont think that makes sense with a shadow user, the shadow user id is not supposed to be reflective of a federated login info, it's just an id | 18:21 |
| ayoung | I can put all those comments in the review. | 18:21 |
| ayoung | rodrigods, related API, but different, just to avoid breaking things | 18:21 |
| stevemar__ | ayoung: please do! | 18:21 |
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| rderose | ayoung: we won't be breaking, just extending :) | 18:21 |
| rderose | stevemar__ ++ | 18:21 |
| ayoung | rderose, maybe... better safe than sorry | 18:22 |
| rderose | ayoung: :) | 18:22 |
| stevemar__ | adriant: you around? | 18:22 |
| adriant | o/ | 18:22 |
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| stevemar__ | #topic Keystone MFA | 18:22 |
| lbragstad | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/343422 | 18:22 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Keystone MFA (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:22 | |
| adriant | patch is here: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/343422/ | 18:22 |
| lbragstad | ^ implementation | 18:22 |
| adriant | The patch itself is done, looks to have all the right things (docs release notes, etc), just needs people to play with it and test it to see how it works so they can confirm they are happy with it. | 18:22 |
| adriant | There are some issues around the way I'm doing the testing (I need to test standard password auth without TOTP works), and while that works for now, other random unrelated broken tests may crop up. | 18:23 |
| stevemar__ | adriant: that is on my list of things to do soon. FWIW it looks good | 18:23 |
| lbragstad | was there a specification for this? | 18:23 |
| adriant | There isn't really too much to say, I just wanted to see if there were any last minute points anyone had I've missed. | 18:23 |
| dstanek | last time i looked i think it was just about done. adriant i'll look again today. | 18:23 |
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| adriant | lbragstad: yes | 18:23 |
| lbragstad | i'm not seeing one linked in the blueprint | 18:23 |
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| adriant | ah, spec came after the blueprint... | 18:24 |
| stevemar__ | lbragstad: http://specs.openstack.org/openstack/keystone-specs/specs/keystone/ocata/password-totp-plugin.html | 18:24 |
| lbragstad | #link http://specs.openstack.org/openstack/keystone-specs/specs/keystone/ocata/password-totp-plugin.html | 18:24 |
| lbragstad | ah | 18:24 |
| lbragstad | alright - updating the blueprint | 18:24 |
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| stevemar__ | adriant: can we move to your next topic? | 18:24 |
| adriant | yes :) | 18:24 |
| stevemar__ | #topic Spec: User Self Management of MFA | 18:24 |
| adriant | as that's the odd one | 18:24 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Spec: User Self Management of MFA (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:24 | |
| adriant | spec here: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/345705/ | 18:24 |
| stevemar__ | adriant: thanks for getting up early btw | 18:24 |
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| adriant | stevemar__: haha, np | 18:25 |
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| adriant | After the passwordtotp patch is merged, Keystone will have MFA support. Problem is, users have no way to make use of it without an admin creating totp creds for them. This spec is about fixing that in a manner that doesn't break things or require a huge rework, but it does add new API features on top of the existing user API (exactly the same way EC2 does). | 18:25 |
| adriant | There has been some discussion about this, and if this should be a new/extended user api, or we change the credentials API. I argue against the latter as it is harder and can break things. | 18:25 |
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| adriant | made notes just in case because it is early ^ | 18:26 |
| adriant | So yes, the last point, new API vs extend the credentials one is a point of contention | 18:26 |
| adriant | we do need user self management for TOTP, otherwise TOTP is kind of useless as a feature | 18:26 |
| dstanek | adriant: so first question... this can't be done as a policy change? | 18:26 |
| ayoung | adriant, why is admin now required? | 18:26 |
| stevemar__ | dstanek: that was my first question in the spec! :) | 18:27 |
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| adriant | I've updated the spec itself, it sort of answers those questions. | 18:27 |
| dstanek | stevemar__: don't keep me in suspense. what's the answer! | 18:27 |
| ayoung | OK | 18:27 |
| stevemar__ | dstanek: hehe, on july 22 -- i forget why | 18:27 |
| adriant | and there is more in the comments themselves | 18:27 |
| adriant | A simple policy change isn't enough | 18:27 |
| lbragstad | adriant because it's per resource? | 18:28 |
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| adriant | we've need to add code to the credentials controllers | 18:28 |
| lbragstad | if you consider a credential a single resource in a tenant? | 18:28 |
| dstanek | adriant: what's the limitation? | 18:28 |
| morgan | i really wish we could just force the system to require multiple auth plugins | 18:28 |
| adriant | a user owns their own TOTP credentials | 18:28 |
| morgan | instead of needing a new passwordtotp plugin explicitly | 18:28 |
| ayoung | adriant, OK, I like the "type" argument you post there... | 18:28 |
| lbragstad | morgan ++ | 18:28 |
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| ayoung | looks like the right approach | 18:28 |
| morgan | iirc that was what we discussed when we accepted the totp plugin in the first place | 18:28 |
| morgan | because... lets be fair, the auth plugins if enabled do not ensure a specific one is used | 18:29 |
| morgan | so it becomes an all or nothing deal | 18:29 |
| morgan | everyone must use passwordtotp or you have to inspect the token to know if they did | 18:29 |
| ayoung | mordred, auth plugins should be linked to idp/protocol | 18:29 |
| adriant | morgan: I agree, and have ideas on that as an approach, but it's hard to enforce. I'll put a spec together for that in future. | 18:29 |
| ayoung | er morgan | 18:29 |
| ayoung | auth plugins should be linked to idp/protocol and not be a global list | 18:30 |
| morgan | ayoung: i disagree, that is too limiting | 18:30 |
| stevemar__ | all the code would exist in the credentials layer, just the routes themselves would be /users/user_id first | 18:30 |
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| stevemar__ | adriant: ^ | 18:30 |
| ayoung | morgan, everything should er done via the Federation style API, just Keystone is its own IdP | 18:30 |
| morgan | ayoung: eh. i would be more inclined to say auth-plugins are user-by-user OR idp/protocol | 18:30 |
| adriant | stevemar__: for this spec, pretty much | 18:30 |
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| morgan | ayoung: a user should eb able to require mfa not just be limited by what the protocol/idp list is | 18:31 |
| stevemar__ | adriant: looks OK to me | 18:31 |
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| stevemar__ | any dissenters? | 18:31 |
| morgan | ayoung: also... some users in an idp/protocol may not use this | 18:31 |
| dstanek | adriant: i don't quite understand why the policy would be broken based on your description. couldn't we credential format based on type? | 18:31 |
| morgan | stevemar__: me | 18:31 |
| stevemar__ | morgan: :O | 18:31 |
| adriant | it's the extra routes and serverside generation/activation that make it useful | 18:31 |
| ayoung | morgabra, wouldnt OTP be another protocol? | 18:31 |
| mordred | what if a user does NOT want to use MFA? | 18:31 |
| morgan | stevemar__: i do not like adding more plugins for this that is against the original design of the MFA inclusion | 18:31 |
| mordred | like, you konw, if the user is an API-consuming automation script? | 18:31 |
| morgan | stevemar__: this is going down the wrong path. | 18:31 |
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| lbragstad | so - throughout the discussion of this spec - we mentioned that there are several things about the existing credential api that prevent us from doing stuff like this | 18:32 |
| * mordred interjects insanity because he accidentally got pinged | 18:32 | |
| adriant | dstanek: it's not just policy, I want to add the generation of TOTP to the serverside | 18:32 |
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| morgan | stevemar__: we should be fixing the plugins so we can by user or by idp/protocol enforce required plugins to be used (if enabled) | 18:32 |
| ayoung | Heh...single use tokens! | 18:32 |
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| morgan | mordred: you're not insane | 18:32 |
| mordred | \o/ | 18:32 |
| lbragstad | to me, it would be easier to roadmap a way to fix what we have, clean it up, and elaborate on it later than to release yet another credential api and hope we can clean it up later | 18:32 |
| morgan | lbragstad: that too | 18:32 |
| mordred | lbragstad: ++ | 18:32 |
| lbragstad | the latter is much harder to do in my opinion | 18:32 |
| adriant | but we then can't do the serverside generation, or the enable/delete needing a passcode | 18:33 |
| adriant | or at least not easily | 18:33 |
| dstanek | lbragstad: ++ i mentioned redesign in my review. i think we need to have a clear direction instead of bolting on something else | 18:33 |
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| morgan | i think the passwordtotp plugin is fundamentally the wrong approach here. we are diving down a bad direction that is now adding more credential apis | 18:33 |
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| dstanek | morgan: you want to have multiple auth plugins? like password and totp? | 18:34 |
| morgan | so i dissent here and say we need to ratchet back and fix the system correctly | 18:34 |
| morgan | dstanek: correct | 18:34 |
| morgan | dstanek: you can do that now | 18:34 |
| stevemar__ | morgan: you volunteering? ;) | 18:34 |
| morgan | ypou just can't enforce that multiple plugins are needed | 18:34 |
| adriant | morgan, yes but not by breaking things | 18:34 |
| ayoung | morgan, can you write up your objectiions? THink they might be too big for this meeting, and I want to understand them | 18:34 |
| morgan | mordred: ^ do I have time for this? | 18:34 |
| morgan | mordred: :P | 18:34 |
| dstanek | but you can't enforce that someone uses 2 of them. that's something we talked about in Austin (i think) | 18:34 |
| adriant | this new plugin allows password+totp to with via password as normal | 18:35 |
| morgan | dstanek: before austin | 18:35 |
| adriant | I'm not using the totp plugin at all, I get the totp passcode from the password itself | 18:35 |
| morgan | dstanek: every time MFA has been brought up we said we need to enforce this. | 18:35 |
| dstanek | adriant: i think morgan's point is that we should need another plugin to do that | 18:35 |
| adriant | sticking two auth methods together means ALL the services need a separate totp passcode | 18:35 |
| lbragstad | yeah - i remember that discussion in austin | 18:35 |
| morgan | we shou;dn't need a plugin for password+totp explicitly | 18:35 |
| ayoung | seems like /credentials is kindof like OS-FEDERATION/idp/self/protocol/totp | 18:35 |
| adriant | morgan, but the base password plugin needs to know to strip the passcode from itself | 18:36 |
| morgan | we should be able to say UserX NEEDS to use both totp and password plugins | 18:36 |
| morgan | to auth | 18:36 |
| adriant | otherwise it fails | 18:36 |
| dstanek | a cloud might have 3 auth plugins required and want the user to use any 2. with this implementation that would be a lot of subclassing | 18:36 |
| chrisplo | well maybe user X needs these auth creds for a particular IdP | 18:36 |
| lbragstad | i thought i had a really detailed discussion about this with dolphm at one point... a long time ago | 18:36 |
| morgan | but user Y (service user) only needs password | 18:36 |
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| ayoung | should be on a per domain basis | 18:37 |
| morgan | ayoung: hell npo | 18:37 |
| morgan | no | 18:37 |
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| stevemar__ | nah | 18:37 |
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| morgan | ayoung: how does rescoping work then? | 18:37 |
| ayoung | morgan, project-domain? | 18:37 |
| morgan | ayoung: user or idp/protocol level | 18:37 |
| adriant | there is nothing stopping us from doing that as well, my whole point with this patch was to allow totp to work with the standard default 'password' auth | 18:37 |
| morgan | not domain by domain | 18:37 |
| lbragstad | which boiled down to enforcing authentication factor on specific operations (ie. nova boot doesn't care how i authenticated so long as I used two separate authentication factors, like password and tongue print) | 18:37 |
| ayoung | you need to use this Auth form to get access to your role assignments on D->P | 18:37 |
| morgan | ayoung: please no. please please please no. | 18:38 |
| adriant | the passwordtotp plugin strips the passcode from the password, that's all. Doing that as two plugins wouldn't work easily | 18:38 |
| ayoung | morgan, my goal is to make the suggestions so wild that we give up on the whole idea all-together | 18:38 |
| morgan | adriant: in the body of the auth request you have multiple plugins specified. this works today | 18:38 |
| ayoung | not really | 18:38 |
| morgan | adriant: but we can't say you MUST use both plugins | 18:39 |
| ayoung | yes, that is part of the design | 18:39 |
| adriant | morgan: yes, but that's not what I wanted with this, that breaks things | 18:39 |
| dstanek | morgan: adriant was trying to not change the cli/horizon/etc for this | 18:39 |
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| adriant | morgan we can ALSO do that | 18:39 |
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| dstanek | adriant: nothing is broken. things would need to be updated | 18:39 |
| adriant | yes, what dstanek said | 18:39 |
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| morgan | adriant: except if you are adding a specific plugin you can use any to auth | 18:39 |
| adriant | yes, but updating across multiple projects takes time, and is akin to breaking :P | 18:39 |
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| morgan | so you're adding yet-another-auth method and not fixing the issue we said we needed to fix when totp was added | 18:40 |
| dstanek | i think the plugin is reasonable, but not sufficient for the overall mfa needs | 18:40 |
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| adriant | morgan: I think we need both | 18:40 |
| morgan | sorry, i'm on a soapbox here because we only accepted totp at all because the next step was fix the system | 18:40 |
| adriant | morgan: I agree, we need a way to enforce: "these two together" | 18:40 |
| morgan | i am against adding another plugin with the nebulous "we'll do this in the future" bit | 18:40 |
| adriant | but this plugin is meant to work around that in the mean time, and allow a different password+totp auth method | 18:41 |
| ayoung | So, do we have something actionable for the next week, or are we kicking this out of Ocata? | 18:41 |
| morgan | adriant: except it is an all or nothing on the entire cloud | 18:41 |
| morgan | adriant: if password is enabled, they can use password... circumventing totp | 18:41 |
| morgan | even with the new plugin | 18:41 |
| dstanek | morgan: the *only* reason i see this plugin as valuable is that a cloud operator won't have control over the libraries a customer is using and they may have to not use MFA until everything works with it | 18:41 |
| adriant | so don't enable password? this is a replacement for password | 18:41 |
| dstanek | this plugin makes it *just work* | 18:41 |
| morgan | adriant: and then all service users cannot auth | 18:42 |
| morgan | adriant: and keystonemiddleware is broken | 18:42 |
| stevemar__ | morgan: if you don't have the time to do the work, can you outline what needs to be fixed to adriant ? i'm not even clear how to make multiple auth work | 18:42 |
| adriant | morgan: this plugin works as a replacement for password auth just fine | 18:42 |
| morgan | stevemar__: i can probably do this. let me land the ksa changes. | 18:42 |
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| adriant | it does not break password auth without totp | 18:42 |
| adriant | that was the point of it | 18:42 |
| dstanek | morgan: service users can still auth... iirc the mfa is only enforced if you have a totp credential | 18:42 |
| adriant | it allows OPTIONAL totp auth with a password | 18:42 |
| stevemar__ | morgan: yes, what dstanek said | 18:43 |
| morgan | ugh. it scans the db on each auth-request to see if you have a totp cred? | 18:43 |
| morgan | gross. | 18:43 |
| morgan | double gross. | 18:43 |
| adriant | it works though | 18:43 |
| ayoung | Heh | 18:43 |
| adriant | the totp auth plugin does the exact same thing | 18:43 |
| ayoung | Federation | 18:43 |
| ayoung | Even password should switch to Federation | 18:43 |
| morgan | i'm actually really annoyed that we went down this path | 18:43 |
| dstanek | ayoung: ++. here we debate another IdP feature | 18:43 |
| morgan | but i wont block it. | 18:44 |
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| morgan | the only reason totp was included was because we were going to "fix" the auth mechanisms next | 18:44 |
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| morgan | otherwise i would have held on the -2 on totp | 18:44 |
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| stevemar__ | morgan: can you elaborate how to fix auth in -keystone after? | 18:44 |
| ayoung | dstanek, need a way to do "the keystone database is itself and IdP" and then the rest of this falls in to line | 18:44 |
| morgan | stevemar__: yes it is not a hard-to-fix thing. but it requires expanding the api(s). | 18:45 |
| dstanek | can we fake the password/totp split in the json payload? | 18:45 |
| dstanek | password:totp or similar format? | 18:45 |
| morgan | dstanek: we could in horizon and the in the cli. | 18:45 |
| morgan | heck keystoneauth could do the work for us. | 18:45 |
| morgan | the ksa authplugin could do the magic | 18:45 |
| morgan | but the enforcement on keystone side isnt' there w/o adriant's plugin and changing keystone.conf to only allow the new plugin | 18:46 |
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| stevemar__ | adriant: stick around -keystone and chat with morgan later? | 18:46 |
| lbragstad | ping me, too | 18:46 |
| adriant | the problem is how do you make MFA optional, but enforce it on users who have it? | 18:46 |
| dstanek | morgan: ++ | 18:46 |
| morgan | like i said, i wont block this. i am lodging my dissent | 18:46 |
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| adriant | stevemar__: yeah I can stick around | 18:46 |
| morgan | adriant: i want to fix that part :) | 18:46 |
| stevemar__ | okay, 15 minutes-ish left | 18:47 |
| morgan | adriant: so we can make it optional/required etc. | 18:47 |
| stevemar__ | let's move on | 18:47 |
| stevemar__ | jgrassler: here? | 18:47 |
| jgrassler | stevemar__: Yes | 18:47 |
| stevemar__ | #topic Spec: Trust Scope Extensions | 18:47 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Spec: Trust Scope Extensions (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:47 | |
| stevemar__ | jgrassler: you're up! | 18:47 |
| * morgan crawls back under a rock so as not to derail the meeting too much. | 18:47 | |
| jgrassler | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/396331/ | 18:47 |
| jgrassler | This is the spec review | 18:47 |
| jgrassler | tl;dr on it: I want to add an optional whitelist of capabilities to trusts | 18:48 |
| jgrassler | If that whitelist is present for a trust only the listed operations (in terms of oslo.policy targets) are allowed | 18:48 |
| ayoung | yeah, kill that | 18:49 |
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| lbragstad | jgrassler so - i could create a trust giving you the operation to list vms on a project, but *only* list vms | 18:49 |
| jgrassler | I'd do the enforcement in oslo.policy since that is where all the information about policy targets (and even concrete objects) is available | 18:49 |
| ayoung | trusts are not the right abstraction | 18:49 |
| jgrassler | lbragstad: Exactly, yes | 18:49 |
| lbragstad | jgrassler that was my next question | 18:49 |
| lbragstad | this would be a cross project spec | 18:49 |
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| jgrassler | lbragstad: Yes, it would be | 18:50 |
| ayoung | No | 18:50 |
| ayoung | THis is unworkable | 18:50 |
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| ayoung | Please read the proposal i have for RBAC in Middleware before you pursue this any further | 18:50 |
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| lbragstad | ayoung link? | 18:50 |
| ayoung | it retreads groud we've been over, and it does not work with the current abstraction | 18:50 |
| ayoung | lbragstad, in the etherpad | 18:50 |
| ayoung | after Taskmnager | 18:51 |
| lbragstad | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/391624/ | 18:51 |
| jgrassler | ayoung: Where does it break? | 18:51 |
| ayoung | the short is "there is no way to tell a user wht they need to delegate" | 18:51 |
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| jgrassler | ayoung: Ah, you mean they do not know the name of the oslo.policy targets? | 18:51 |
| ayoung | we have 9 minutes left..too long for this meeting | 18:52 |
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| ayoung | and the role needed for those policy targets | 18:52 |
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| ayoung | jgrassler, I had a proposal for operational scoped tokens about a year ago...fell apart on this issue | 18:52 |
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| ayoung | so... URL patterns | 18:52 |
| dstanek | jgrassler: no a backup_vm target may under the hood use other targets to do its work. what happens there? | 18:53 |
| ayoung | enforce RBAC on | 18:53 |
| ayoung | gah..wrong computer | 18:53 |
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| jgrassler | dstanek: Yes, that problem is unsolved, currently :-/ | 18:53 |
| ayoung | enforce RBAC on soemthing like POST /v2.1/{project_id}/server/{server_id | 18:53 |
| jgrassler | dstanek: It's the same issue with Barbican secret containers (they consist of multiple secrets) | 18:54 |
| ayoung | jgrassler, so, work with me on the RBAC stuff and we'll get to what you want | 18:54 |
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| jgrassler | ayoung: But how do you get the thousands of roles this approach requires for the same granularity in place? | 18:55 |
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| ayoung | jgrassler, step by step.... | 18:55 |
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| dstanek | so in the Z release :-P | 18:56 |
| stevemar__ | dstanek: we'll flip over by then | 18:56 |
| lbragstad | dstanek hopefully | 18:56 |
| ayoung | nah, we have something that will work based on all the restrictions | 18:56 |
| jgrassler | ayoung: That one is my main objection to it. It requires a _lot_ of infrastructure to be in place :-/ | 18:56 |
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| ayoung | please read through https://review.openstack.org/#/c/391624/ | 18:56 |
| ayoung | jgrassler, believe it or not, it is the path of least resistnace | 18:56 |
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| jgrassler | ayoung: Don't get me wrong, I like your RBAC proposal per se. But not for this purpose. At least not in 2016 :-) | 18:57 |
| ayoung | it is all within code that the Keystone project manages | 18:57 |
| ayoung | jgrassler, what you are proposing is unworkable. You cannot enforce policy the way you propose without getting changes into every single project | 18:57 |
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| ayoung | just look at how long bug 968696 has been open | 18:57 |
| openstack | bug 968696 in OpenStack Identity (keystone) ""admin"-ness not properly scoped" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/968696 - Assigned to Matthew Edmonds (edmondsw) | 18:57 |
| jgrassler | ayoung: oslo.policy would suffice. | 18:58 |
| ayoung | Hey, assignemd to Matt...ah whatever... | 18:58 |
| ayoung | jgrassler, hah | 18:58 |
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| ayoung | "Baby I've been here before I've seen this room and I've walked this floor I worked on this alone before I knew ya" | 18:58 |
| ayoung | jgrassler, lets take it off line | 18:58 |
| ayoung | I will be very happy to work through these things with you | 18:59 |
| ayoung | meeting is almost over | 18:59 |
| stevemar__ | we left a lot on the agenda | 18:59 |
| stevemar__ | i'll add it to next weeks | 18:59 |
| ayoung | I want to get the RBAC spec in this release | 18:59 |
| jgrassler | ayoung: Agreed on that. I really don't want to rush through this in half a minute :-) | 18:59 |
| agrebennikov | thank you very much for spending 40 mins on the second topic :( | 18:59 |
| ayoung | please review | 18:59 |
| ayoung | please read through https://review.openstack.org/#/c/391624/ | 18:59 |
| stevemar__ | agrebennikov: happens dude | 18:59 |
| morgan | agrebennikov: we can discuss your thing in -keystone after this meeting | 19:00 |
| morgan | since i have the -2 on it. | 19:00 |
| agrebennikov | exactly | 19:00 |
| agrebennikov | and we have a customer online)) | 19:00 |
| stevemar__ | #endmeeting | 19:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 19:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Nov 29 19:00:20 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 19:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2016/keystone.2016-11-29-18.00.html | 19:00 |
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| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2016/keystone.2016-11-29-18.00.txt | 19:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2016/keystone.2016-11-29-18.00.log.html | 19:00 |
| fungi | infra team, assemble! | 19:00 |
| SotK | o/ | 19:00 |
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| morgan | i want to be sure you're not left hanging here. but we've gone in circles on this. | 19:00 |
| zara_the_lemur__ | o/ | 19:00 |
| AJaeger | o/ | 19:00 |
| pabelanger | o/ | 19:00 |
| fungi | this week's meeting will likely be short, as there are no proposed general topics | 19:00 |
| jeblair | howdy | 19:01 |
| * jesusaur lurks | 19:01 | |
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| * jlvillal waits for startmeeting... | 19:01 | |
| ianw | o/ | 19:01 |
| fungi | i get the impression many on the team are suffering from feast holiday hangovers | 19:01 |
| zara_the_lemur__ | :) | 19:01 |
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| SotK | xD | 19:01 |
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| jhesketh | Morning | 19:02 |
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| AJaeger | morning, jhesketh | 19:03 |
| fungi | well, let's get this meeting started | 19:03 |
| fungi | #startmeeting infra | 19:03 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Nov 29 19:03:56 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is fungi. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 19:03 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 19:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:03 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'infra' | 19:04 |
| jlvillal | o/ | 19:04 |
| fungi | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/InfraTeamMeeting#Agenda_for_next_meeting | 19:04 |
| olaph | o/ | 19:04 |
| fungi | #topic Announcements | 19:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Announcements (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:04 | |
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| rcarrillocruz | o/ | 19:04 |
| fungi | i don't have any important announcements this week | 19:04 |
| fungi | as always, feel free to hit me up with announcements you want included in future meetings | 19:04 |
| fungi | #topic Actions from last meeting | 19:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Actions from last meeting (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:04 | |
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| fungi | #link http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2016/infra.2016-11-22-19.02.log.html | 19:05 |
| fungi | #undo | 19:05 |
| openstack | Removing item from minutes: <ircmeeting.items.Link object at 0x7fbb93c8f550> | 19:05 |
| fungi | #link http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2016/infra.2016-11-22-19.02.html | 19:05 |
| fungi | #action fungi send summit session summary to infra ml | 19:05 |
| fungi | i swear it's coming | 19:06 |
| zara_the_lemur__ | hahaha | 19:06 |
| fungi | i have more than half of them written up | 19:06 |
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| fungi | just need to finish | 19:06 |
| zara_the_lemur__ | the wait makes it more exciting! | 19:06 |
| fungi | #topic Specs approval | 19:06 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Specs approval (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:06 | |
| fungi | #info APPROVED "Gerrit 2.13 Upgrade" spec | 19:06 |
| fungi | #link http://specs.openstack.org/openstack-infra/infra-specs/specs/gerrit-2.13.html Gerrit 2.13 Upgrade | 19:07 |
| mordred | p/ | 19:07 |
| zaro | o/ | 19:07 |
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| fungi | that also got added as a priority effort, since there were no objections | 19:07 |
| fungi | though the post job hasn't finished running for that one yet | 19:08 |
| fungi | should show up in the priority list shortly | 19:08 |
| SotK | \o/ | 19:08 |
| fungi | i haven't approved "Zuul v3: Add section on secrets" yet since i'm unclear on whether clarkb wanted that updated | 19:08 |
| fungi | but we have time to work it out in this meeting | 19:08 |
| fungi | #link https://review.openstack.org/386281 "Zuul v3: Add section on secrets" | 19:09 |
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| zaro | i'm sorta stuck on doing gerrit upgrade tasks atm, can discuss later in meeting though. | 19:09 |
| fungi | zaro: cool, i'll add that in the priority efforts discussion shortly | 19:09 |
| clarkb | ohai sorry got distracted but am here now | 19:10 |
| clarkb | fungi: I responded to your comment in -infra | 19:10 |
| clarkb | asid I was fine with a followup | 19:10 |
| fungi | jeblair: follow-up to implement clarkb's requests is cool then? i'll go ahead and approve now | 19:10 |
| rcarrillocruz | \o/ | 19:10 |
| fungi | thanks clarkb! | 19:11 |
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| fungi | #info APPROVED "Zuul v3: Add section on secrets" change | 19:11 |
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| fungi | #topic Priority Efforts: Gerrit 2.13 Upgrade (zaro) | 19:12 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Priority Efforts: Gerrit 2.13 Upgrade (zaro) (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:12 | |
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| jeblair | fungi: yes, i will implement at least one of those suggestions; i will give the one which is slightly redundant a shot but no promises. :) | 19:12 |
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| zaro | i'm sorta stuck on this change, #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/38674 | 19:13 |
| jeblair | that number doesn't look long enough | 19:13 |
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| zaro | right, it's #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/386745 | 19:14 |
| fungi | #link https://review.openstack.org/386745 Allow zuul launcher and scheduler on the same host | 19:14 |
| zaro | so i'm trying to setup zuul-dev so that we can test new gerrit with a zuul CI In place. | 19:15 |
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| zaro | had a discussing with nibalizer yesterday about changes to puppet-openstackci to make that work which may cause problems for downstream. | 19:16 |
| zaro | would like to get other people's opinions about this | 19:16 |
| pabelanger | maybe it is just easier to stand up separate dev servers? | 19:16 |
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| pabelanger | moving our configs to a single host, is a lot of code churn | 19:16 |
| nibalizer | o/ | 19:16 |
| clarkb | pabelanger: zaro but openstackci is already supposed to support all in one aiui | 19:17 |
| rcarrillocruz | y | 19:17 |
| clarkb | so its a bug that should be fixed regardless | 19:17 |
| fungi | but we purposely didn't implement zuul-launcher support in it, i thought | 19:17 |
| pabelanger | clarkb: there is some issues with zuulv25 things | 19:17 |
| zaro | clarkb: fix in openstackci? | 19:17 |
| nibalizer | yah the issue is the decision not to support z2.5 imho | 19:17 |
| clarkb | fungi: is that the only piece that isn't working? | 19:17 |
| nibalizer | puts openstackci in a weird spot | 19:17 |
| pabelanger | which, if we land in openstackci, will break system-config | 19:17 |
| clarkb | pabelanger: not sure I follow | 19:18 |
| pabelanger | we can fix it in openstackci, but will be a lot of chrun | 19:18 |
| nibalizer | because previously we said that we'd keep openstackci running what we run | 19:18 |
| mordred | yah. I agree that is awkward | 19:18 |
| jeblair | we can move it into openstackci. but i still don't think we should recommend anyone use it. | 19:18 |
| pabelanger | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/311140/ | 19:18 |
| pabelanger | was a WIP for zuul_launcher in openstackci | 19:19 |
| fungi | aiui, the challenge comes from directly instantiating zuul::launcher in openstack_project but instantiating other puppet classes for zuul through the openstackci module | 19:19 |
| pabelanger | but was abandoned | 19:19 |
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| nibalizer | yah | 19:20 |
| jeblair | so if it will help, let's move it into openstackci. | 19:21 |
| nibalizer | if openstackci can hold launcher stuff, it gets easier to write it I think | 19:21 |
| nibalizer | i do think it will help jeblair | 19:21 |
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| nibalizer | maybe we leave the default to be jenkins, then we add some flags that turn on a launcher | 19:21 |
| jeblair | yep. with a comment saying don't do that. :) | 19:22 |
| nibalizer | and infra uses that on the zuul launchers, and in zaros allinone test node | 19:22 |
| jeblair | do not press big red button | 19:22 |
| nibalizer | no one ever does that :P | 19:22 |
| pabelanger | I'll be around to help with the move | 19:23 |
| zaro | i'm going to trust that it will help | 19:23 |
| zaro | how would that look on system-config side? just call into openstackci pieces to setup zuul? | 19:23 |
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| nibalizer | for the dev node or for the launchers? | 19:24 |
| zaro | one in prod mode and one in test mode? | 19:24 |
| zaro | I mean how does that seperation work with zuul_dev.pp and zuul_prod.pp? | 19:24 |
| pabelanger | zaro: we should be able to follow same steps for zuul_merger, but using zuul_launcher | 19:24 |
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| pabelanger | then add openstackci::zuul_launcher into zuul_dev.pp | 19:25 |
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| nibalizer | yah | 19:25 |
| fungi | i guess some of the confusion is also around how to serialize the needed changes between the different puppet modules | 19:25 |
| pabelanger | if we leave zuul_prod.pp alone for now, that will be less disruption | 19:26 |
| fungi | or has that been addressed now? | 19:26 |
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| nibalizer | and we write openstackci:::zuul_launcher so that it can co-exist with openstackci::zuul_scheduler | 19:26 |
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| pabelanger | yes | 19:26 |
| clarkb | fungi: I don't think its an issue, if you don't explicitly use openstackci::zuul_lajuncher its a noop | 19:26 |
| fungi | good point | 19:27 |
| clarkb | fungi: which will let our existing code behappy, whcih we can then switch over to use openstackci::zuul_launcher | 19:27 |
| nibalizer | yah i dont expect us having to change zuul_prod.pp at all | 19:27 |
| fungi | i guess that directly addresses it anyway | 19:27 |
| fungi | yep | 19:27 |
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| nibalizer | oh now i see what clark is saying | 19:28 |
| nibalizer | there should be a change to the launchers puppet, yes, but it shouldn't change the daemon | 19:28 |
| fungi | anything else need covering on the gerrit upgrade prep at this point? | 19:29 |
| fungi | zaro: are you all squared away on what you need for the puppet end of this? | 19:30 |
| zaro | will pabelanger work on the needed zuul_launcher change? | 19:30 |
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| zaro | his wip change | 19:30 |
| zaro | or abandoned i guess | 19:30 |
| pabelanger | I can help get it landed | 19:31 |
| pabelanger | don't mind doing it | 19:31 |
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| zaro | cool, thanks! | 19:31 |
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| fungi | #action pabelanger add openstackci::zuul_launcher puppet class | 19:32 |
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| fungi | that cover it? | 19:32 |
| pabelanger | WFM | 19:32 |
| zaro | i think so. | 19:32 |
| fungi | awesome | 19:33 |
| fungi | thanks zaro, pabelanger, nibalizer, clarkb et al! | 19:33 |
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| fungi | #topic Open discussion | 19:33 |
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| *** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:33 | |
| fungi | anybody have anything off-agenda to bring up this week? | 19:33 |
| pabelanger | we had an outage of ask.o.o over the weekend | 19:34 |
| fungi | ahh, yep. so we did | 19:34 |
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| pabelanger | HDD space issue | 19:34 |
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| pabelanger | between apache and jetty, about 30GB of logs | 19:34 |
| fungi | there's a bigger outstanding issue with ask.o.o... there's an outstanding upgrade to newer askbot | 19:34 |
| mordred | I recommend we stop running out of disk | 19:34 |
| pabelanger | if anybody knows jetty, would love some help how to reduce the log levels for it | 19:34 |
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| fungi | i approved it, didn't work i think because there's some issue with the deployment automation for it, so had to roll it back | 19:34 |
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| clarkb | fungi: for that issue at least we should probably just use vcsrepo | 19:35 |
| fungi | i'm not entirely unconvinced the uptick in jetty log volume could be related | 19:35 |
| clarkb | its what we use everywhere else because ~vcsrepo has never worked for us | 19:35 |
| clarkb | er !vcsrepo | 19:35 |
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| fungi | yeah, i think the commit history in the puppet-askbot repo indicates that the switch from vcsrepo to git provider was an attempt to solve an issue/shortcoming with vcsrepo | 19:36 |
| fungi | #link https://review.openstack.org/235389 Refactor vcsrepo to git resource to resolve refresh trigger issues | 19:36 |
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| fungi | vcsrepo was retriggering deployment on every run or something | 19:37 |
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| clarkb | ah | 19:37 |
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| fungi | trying to ensure a specific git ref caused it to notify each time the resource was evaluated, if memory served | 19:37 |
| fungi | mrmartin may remember more detail | 19:37 |
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| mrmartin | vcsrepo? | 19:38 |
| fungi | right | 19:38 |
| mrmartin | yeah, we had some issues with vcsrepo | 19:38 |
| fungi | discussing the decision from a year ago to switch from vcsrepo to git resource for puppet-askbot | 19:38 |
| fungi | which in turn seems to have the opposite problem of not notifying when the ref changes | 19:39 |
| mrmartin | some features was missing from git resource as I remember | 19:39 |
| mrmartin | was / were | 19:39 |
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| fungi | yeah, it appears that ensuring a specific git ref with vcsrepo notifies other resources every time it's evaluated, and ensuring a specific git ref with the git resource fails to notify other resources when the git ref changes | 19:40 |
| clarkb | so vcsrepo triggers things on ever run, current thing doesn't actually update the git repo? | 19:40 |
| mrmartin | give me a min I can check the task history. | 19:41 |
| mordred | clarkb: it updates the git repo but doesn't notify anything else that the git repo changed | 19:41 |
| mordred | clarkb: so actions that trigger when the git repo changes don't fire | 19:42 |
| fungi | yeah, now i don't remember which of those it ended up being | 19:42 |
| fungi | i'd have to go back to my post-mortem in the irc logs from when i rolled things back | 19:42 |
| clarkb | ah ok so I misunderstood when this was debugged before and thought the git repo didn't update | 19:42 |
| mrmartin | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/235389/3 | 19:43 |
| fungi | mrmartin: the reason this is coming up though is that we've (suddenly?) started running out of disk space in the last few weeks, and jetty logs look to be what's mostly filling up the filesystem | 19:43 |
| mordred | clarkb: I could also be massively wrong - it's easy to get backwardsed on this | 19:43 |
| fungi | though i don't think anyone has yet looked into why jetty is logging so much lately | 19:43 |
| jeblair | yeah, it looks like nb01 installs nodepool every puppet run | 19:43 |
| mrmartin | jetty? | 19:43 |
| mrmartin | we are using jetty for apache solr | 19:43 |
| jeblair | so vcsrepo appears to do that when you give it a branch at least | 19:44 |
| fungi | mrmartin: right, i was wanting to rule out the recent failed and rolled-back upgrade as a cause | 19:44 |
| mrmartin | but the current solr version seems to be deprecated, but upgrade requires a larger architectural change of solr deployment. | 19:44 |
| mrmartin | vcsrepo had a bug, and that was the reason that we change for this git resource | 19:45 |
| fungi | mrmartin: and if the volume of jetty logging isn't indicative of a deeper problem, we probably just need to look into how to scale back on its retention or configure it to compress its logs when it rotates them | 19:45 |
| jeblair | oh wait, i think i may be wrong about that | 19:45 |
| jeblair | i see puppet runs where nodepool was not installed | 19:45 |
| mrmartin | fungi: yeah as a first step, it is a great idea. I don't have access to the ask.o.o site just for the dev one, and it is not reproducing the same issues due to much lower traffic. | 19:45 |
| jeblair | mordred, clarkb, fungi: so it looks like vcsrepo, given a branch, does not install on every pulse. | 19:46 |
| mrmartin | someone had time to check what the heck is jetty logging? | 19:46 |
| fungi | mrmartin: i can get you some jetty logs after the meeting if you have an opportunity to look at them | 19:46 |
| mrmartin | ok, I can check it | 19:46 |
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| fungi | i'm pulling some up now | 19:47 |
| mrmartin | maybe we just simply need to decrease the log level, and add logrotate | 19:47 |
| pabelanger | yes | 19:47 |
| pabelanger | how do you do that? | 19:47 |
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| pabelanger | because we need to puppet it | 19:47 |
| fungi | lots of info lines about things like "org.apache.solr.core.SolrCore - [core-en] webapp=/solr path=/select/ params={fl=*+score&start=390&q=(vnc)&wt=json&fq=django_ct:(askbot.thread)&rows=10} hits=489 status=0 QTime=0" | 19:47 |
| fungi | looks like maybe performance stats? | 19:47 |
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| fungi | i honestly don't know enough about jetty and solr to be able to say for sure, but the fact that they're pretty much all at info loglevel suggests they're benign anyway | 19:48 |
| fungi | so maybe jetty can be configured to compress when it rotates | 19:49 |
| pabelanger | think it can | 19:49 |
| mrmartin | yeap, let's try that first, at INFO level it mustn't flood the logs | 19:49 |
| mrmartin | how quickly it fills up the disk? | 19:49 |
| ianw | wow xml config files are fun | 19:50 |
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| fungi | mrmartin: looking for a graph, just a sec | 19:51 |
| fungi | mrmartin: http://cacti.openstack.org/cacti/graph.php?action=view&local_graph_id=2547&rra_id=all | 19:52 |
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| fungi | #link http://cacti.openstack.org/cacti/graph.php?action=view&local_graph_id=2547&rra_id=all ask.openstack.org - Used Space - / | 19:52 |
| mrmartin | oh ok, thanks | 19:52 |
| fungi | looks like a few weeks ago it ramped up pretty quickly | 19:52 |
| bswartz | ianw hope you're being sarcastic | 19:52 |
| fungi | mrmartin: those sawteeth are from where we deleted some older logs manually each time it filled up | 19:53 |
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| fungi | mrmartin: and when / gets full and puppet tries to redeploy askbot for whatever reason, it leaves it in a half-installed state and then the service falls offline apparently | 19:53 |
| mrmartin | wow | 19:53 |
| fungi | each of those incidents was followed by trying to figure out which libraries to manuallt reinstall with pip to get things working again | 19:54 |
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| pabelanger | one day, when we roll DIBs for control plane server, we should have a different mount for /var/logs :) | 19:55 |
| pabelanger | so that doesn't happen | 19:55 |
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| fungi | yeah | 19:57 |
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| fungi | okay, we're coming up on the end of our timeslot. any last-minute items? | 19:57 |
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| clarkb | translate-dev still nto working | 19:58 |
| clarkb | er on xenial | 19:58 |
| clarkb | will try to poke at that more later this week | 19:58 |
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| clarkb | also puppet + systemd is | 19:59 |
| clarkb | how to put it nicely | 19:59 |
| clarkb | not great | 19:59 |
| EmilienM | :) | 19:59 |
| * fungi is unsurprised | 19:59 | |
| fungi | okay, that's time. thanks everyone! | 19:59 |
| fungi | #endmeeting | 19:59 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 19:59 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Nov 29 19:59:56 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 19:59 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2016/infra.2016-11-29-19.03.html | 19:59 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2016/infra.2016-11-29-19.03.txt | 20:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2016/infra.2016-11-29-19.03.log.html | 20:00 |
| fungi | take it away, ttx | 20:00 |
| ttx | alirighty | 20:00 |
| ttx | who is around for the TC meeting ? | 20:00 |
| EmilienM | o/ | 20:00 |
| dtroyer | o/ | 20:00 |
| johnthetubaguy | o/ | 20:00 |
| mtreinish | o/ | 20:00 |
| * edleafe lurks in the back | 20:00 | |
| ttx | dhellmann, dims, flaper87, mordred, stevemar: around ? | 20:00 |
| ttx | sdague and thingee are excused | 20:00 |
| * mtreinish remembers dst this week | 20:00 | |
| dhellmann | o/ | 20:00 |
| dougwig | o/ | 20:00 |
| johnsom | o/ | 20:01 |
| lbragstad | ttx i can step in for keystone stuff if you need anything from keystone this week | 20:01 |
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| dims | ttx : am here right now may drop off soon to head home | 20:01 |
| ttx | We have quorum | 20:01 |
| ttx | I suspect flaper87 will join us | 20:01 |
| stevemar__ | o/ | 20:01 |
| ttx | #startmeeting tc | 20:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Nov 29 20:01:39 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is ttx. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 20:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 20:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'tc' | 20:01 |
| ttx | Hi everyone! | 20:01 |
| stevemar__ | present! | 20:01 |
| ttx | Thanks to dhellmann for chairing last week | 20:01 |
| ttx | Our agenda for today: | 20:01 |
| dhellmann | my pleasure | 20:02 |
| ttx | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/TechnicalCommittee | 20:02 |
| mordred | o/ | 20:02 |
| flaper87 | o/ | 20:02 |
| ttx | (remember to use #info #idea and #link liberally to make for a more readable summary) | 20:02 |
| stevemar__ | mtreinish and i were sippin' lattees in montreal last week | 20:02 |
| ttx | #topic Add project Octavia to OpenStack big-tent (final discussion) | 20:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Add project Octavia to OpenStack big-tent (final discussion) (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:02 | |
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| ttx | #link https://review.openstack.org/313056 | 20:02 |
| EmilienM | ship it :) | 20:03 |
| ttx | This was discussed last week, I couldn't spot any strong objection in the logs | 20:03 |
| ttx | Feels like it's mostly reflecting a change that has already happened | 20:03 |
| stevemar__ | EmilienM: ++ | 20:03 |
| ttx | My only concern is with the timing: you mention the transition is to be completed in Ocata. | 20:03 |
| ttx | dougwig: ocata-2 is Dec 15, ocata-3 is Jan 27 -- how early do you think you can complete that ? | 20:03 |
| dhellmann | yes, that was my only concern, too | 20:04 |
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| dhellmann | if the transition doesn't happen quickly enough, what portion of octavia is part of "newton" or not? | 20:04 |
| * mtreinish is still surprised by how short the cycle is :) | 20:04 | |
| ttx | dhellmann: I guess given the cycle is short it can be done for ocata-3 ? | 20:04 |
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| * dhellmann checks the release model for octavia | 20:04 | |
| flaper87 | mtreinish: no kidding | 20:05 |
| dougwig | we're going to try, but the staffing changes hit us as well. worst case, it finishes in P, and the end user API via neutron is not affected. we currently expect it to be done. | 20:05 |
| amrith | ./ | 20:05 |
| johnsom | We are actively working on the neutron-lbaas/octavia merge, but I think that is a bit independent of the governance change as we are actively managing compatibility via neutron. | 20:05 |
| dhellmann | ttx: it's cycle with intermediary, so as long as they have a final release I guess I'm OK with including it in newton | 20:05 |
| ttx | dougwig: in that case you would just publish neutron-lbaas ? | 20:05 |
| johnthetubaguy | I thought octavia already released things last cycle, so worst case it is similar this cycle? | 20:05 |
| johnthetubaguy | johnsom: +1 | 20:05 |
| dougwig | ttx: aye. | 20:05 |
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| ttx | makes sense to me, thx for the precision | 20:06 |
| dhellmann | ok, that sounds fine | 20:06 |
| ttx | OK, no more objections from me, anyone else ? | 20:06 |
| dougwig | i expect both neutron-lbaas and octavia to be required as packages in O, since the former will have the api proxy for backwards compat. | 20:06 |
| dims | no objections | 20:06 |
| * flaper87 steals ttx's magic wand and approves Octavia | 20:06 | |
| johnsom | dougwig +1 | 20:06 |
| ttx | should we get formal approval from armax ? | 20:06 |
| dhellmann | I just realized I said newton when I meant ocata | 20:07 |
| flaper87 | ttx: he was active in the review already | 20:07 |
| ttx | sure, but not formal +1 | 20:07 |
| dhellmann | it seems reasonable to wait for a +1 from armax, but then to let ttx approve as soon as that happens | 20:08 |
| dhellmann | without having to go through another meeting review | 20:08 |
| flaper87 | works for me | 20:08 |
| dougwig | if you need that, ok. but we have had many conversations with armax, so i'm not worried. | 20:08 |
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| dhellmann | yeah, this is mostly to ensure the record is clear for posterity | 20:08 |
| fungi | yeah, he chimed in on last week's tc discussion as well | 20:08 |
| ttx | #agreed since neutron-lbaas is thorically in neutron currently, waiting for a formal +1 from armax, but ttx is clear to approve as soon as that happens | 20:08 |
| johnsom | Yeah, armax is very supportive of this, but I am fine waiting for the rubber stamp. | 20:08 |
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| fungi | i can't find thorically in my dictionary | 20:09 |
| ttx | he might chime in during the meeting | 20:09 |
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| ttx | fungi: it involves a hammer | 20:09 |
| dhellmann | fungi : isn't the thoric the middle section of an insect? | 20:09 |
| * fungi is duly schooled | 20:09 | |
| dims | lol | 20:10 |
| ttx | Alright, let's move on | 20:10 |
| ttx | dougwig, johnsom: consider it almost-done :) | 20:10 |
| johnsom | Grin, thanks! | 20:10 |
| mordred | dhellmann: s/ic/ax/ | 20:10 |
| dhellmann | mordred : my joke was not as funny as ttx's | 20:10 |
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| ttx | #topic Reference doc for new language additions | 20:10 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Reference doc for new language additions (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:10 | |
| ttx | #link https://review.openstack.org/398875 | 20:11 |
| ttx | flaper87: want to introduce the topic ? | 20:11 |
| flaper87 | sure | 20:11 |
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| * dims has to drop off :( | 20:11 | |
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| ttx | dims: bye! | 20:11 |
| stevemar__ | ttx: great blog a few days ago btw (myth #1 touched on the topic) | 20:11 |
| flaper87 | So, I started this by doing a brain dump on my blog and then cleaned the brain dump a bit and wrote it down in the form of a reference document. This is very much a draft that I'd lie us to go over and clean up a bit | 20:12 |
| flaper87 | So, the current proposal is a 2-phase process | 20:12 |
| ttx | stevemar__: thx! | 20:12 |
| flaper87 | the first phase is to discuss the needs of a new language and why the currently supported languages are not good enough | 20:12 |
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| flaper87 | the second phase involves addressing the set of requirements listed in the proposal | 20:13 |
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| flaper87 | I intentionally kept the bar high in the proposal because I want us to think about things that new languages should/shouldn't support before OpenStack adopts them | 20:13 |
| flaper87 | we can remove and/or add new requirements to the proposal | 20:13 |
| flaper87 | there have been some comments on it already from various folks | 20:13 |
| dhellmann | I like the 2 phase structure | 20:14 |
| ttx | mordred: you still have a blogpost queued to recount the javascript experience | 20:14 |
| flaper87 | I think one of the main objections is that it's too much work in advance | 20:14 |
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| ttx | dhellmann: yes, I like the idea of making people part of the solution, rather than proactively block progress | 20:14 |
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| flaper87 | Now, I also want to mention something that has come up a couple of times | 20:15 |
| ttx | flaper87: we could relax the oslo part -- I don't think a team that is not using some oslo lib would have to front the cost for a lib (or go equivalent) they would not use | 20:15 |
| flaper87 | There's a feeling that this proposal is not allowing for people to experiment and that it adds new requirements without having added the language yet. In my opinion, we've experimented with the process already and we did that with python | 20:16 |
| flaper87 | sure, different times and a single language but we learnt from that process | 20:16 |
| johnthetubaguy | yeah, I am mostly +1 all the requirements except the oslo libs (we need a way to create such things though) | 20:16 |
| ttx | flaper87: in the past we allowed experiments in feature branches and/or unofficial repos | 20:16 |
| edleafe | ttx: but if they did implement a common thing that oslo implements, they should make it a lib/whatever to help future work in that language | 20:16 |
| ttx | edleafe: right | 20:16 |
| flaper87 | ttx: johnthetubaguy ++ I don't have a good formula to figure out what libs (if any) should be required | 20:16 |
| johnthetubaguy | so, I think if we talk more about the why in the process, many peoples fears will go away | 20:16 |
| dhellmann | I don't think we need to say that all of the oslo libs need to be reproduced, but I do think we need to say that something like config should be done in a way consistent to openstack, not necessarily consistent to the language ecosystem | 20:17 |
| edleafe | flaper87: logging comes to mind as a start... | 20:17 |
| dtroyer | dhellmann: ++ | 20:17 |
| stevemar__ | dhellmann: i like that | 20:17 |
| johnthetubaguy | flaper87: there is a good point there, its hard to prove you can have a shared lib, if we don't try it... but hey. | 20:17 |
| edleafe | dhellmann: yes | 20:17 |
| ttx | dhellmann: yes arguably log/config could be upfront. messaging, maybe first-user | 20:17 |
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| ttx | same for oslo.db | 20:17 |
| morgan | dhellmann: as long as the understanding is that if the openstack-consistent way can be done without an additonal lib, it should be fine. | 20:17 |
| dhellmann | ttx: right | 20:17 |
| flaper87 | edleafe: right, so far I think I have logging and config but that's probably subjective | 20:17 |
| dtroyer | also, the same sort of thinking that got us to olso in the first place should be expected, for things that didn't need an oslo lib in Python but might in naother language | 20:17 |
| dhellmann | morgan : I'm not sure what that means? | 20:18 |
| morgan | dhellmann: some languages don't need the extra mechanisms oslo.config provides to provide an equivalent. | 20:18 |
| dhellmann | dtroyer : ++ | 20:18 |
| edleafe | flaper87: true, but requiring that o.vo be implemented is crazy talk | 20:18 |
| morgan | richer base (stdlib) style support | 20:18 |
| flaper87 | dtroyer: right, that's my thought as well | 20:18 |
| flaper87 | edleafe: oh sure | 20:18 |
| morgan | thats all. | 20:18 |
| stevemar__ | edleafe: yep | 20:18 |
| ttx | and frankly, we had a lot of people complaining that "the TC doesn't want go", and telling those that they can be part of the solution in implementing goslo.config... could turn the table around | 20:18 |
| dhellmann | morgan : I would be surprised to find another language with an implementation of the things that oslo.config does in a way that is compatible with oslo.config for doc generation, etc. There are a lot of ways to read INI files, but that's only one feature of that library. | 20:19 |
| EmilienM | dhellmann: +1 with config. It's a good start helpful for our operators | 20:19 |
| flaper87 | TBH, if it can be proved that stdlib of language X does the same thing without having to add 10 modules to each project, I guess it's fine | 20:19 |
| flaper87 | dhellmann: ++ | 20:19 |
| morgan | flaper87: exactly | 20:19 |
| morgan | that is all i was pointing out | 20:19 |
| edleafe | flaper87: good point | 20:20 |
| morgan | don't force a lib if it is demonstrobly proven to already exist | 20:20 |
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| flaper87 | the point is, it needs to be proven. | 20:20 |
| dhellmann | I'm not even certain we need to require something like oslo.messaging -- that's a layer I think we might say works differently in different languages | 20:20 |
| morgan | flaper87: ++ | 20:20 |
| ttx | dhellmann: right | 20:20 |
| morgan | oslo.config might have been a bad choice... | 20:20 |
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| morgan | oslo.messaging might have been a better example (as highlighted by dhellmann ) | 20:20 |
| fungi | it seems much more like an attempt to avoid a return to the old nova code copies, openstack/common, oslo-incubator... | 20:20 |
| mordred | ttx: yes - the javascript blogpost is coming up | 20:21 |
| edleafe | dhellmann: in that case, they should demonstrate the reason why messaging isn't applicable | 20:21 |
| johnthetubaguy | right, the bit about being able to create shared libs, as needed, seems way more important | 20:21 |
| ttx | fungi: yes, I'm actually more interested in having the mechanism to share, rather than exact bits of code | 20:21 |
| ttx | what johnthetubaguy said | 20:21 |
| flaper87 | johnthetubaguy: indeed and I think that's in the current draft already | 20:21 |
| dhellmann | fungi : also to avoid having diverging implementations where different pieces of openstack have different deployment needs based on their language | 20:21 |
| dhellmann | edleafe : we can argue about the bad patterns in oslo.messaging another time :-) | 20:21 |
| johnthetubaguy | flaper87: +1 I love that bit | 20:21 |
| fungi | we continue to experience it in our python-based projects, so i don't know that we can completely get in front of it with any other language either | 20:21 |
| ttx | And I'll only approve it if it's named goslo | 20:21 |
| edleafe | dhellmann: :) | 20:22 |
| stevemar__ | ttx: not lillehammer? | 20:22 |
| edleafe | ttx: I read that as 'go slo(w)' | 20:22 |
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| mordred | stevemar__: gillehammer | 20:22 |
| * ttx looks up norwegian cities starting with g | 20:22 | |
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| flaper87 | so, would people be ok with having a clause on the oslo topic saying that if there are compatible implementations for oslo.config and oslo.log then those don't need to be implemented? | 20:23 |
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| flaper87 | of course, that needs to be proven and tested, I guess | 20:23 |
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| fungi | flaper87: yes. take pbr as a (relatively early) example... we have plenty of libraries that share solutions for common problems in python | 20:23 |
| ttx | flaper87: ok, so it looks like you're on a good path here, but as always people will nitpick more when we get to more details | 20:23 |
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| fungi | the common problems in go may not be the same set of problems | 20:23 |
| dhellmann | flaper87 : the part I would want for oslo.log is the config layer that gets the underlying logging machinery to produce output like other openstack services | 20:23 |
| mordred | "how does dependency management and stable branch maint work" and "how do dependencies get mirrored/pre-cached for the gate" are the ones that are going to be harder, to be quite honest | 20:23 |
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| johnthetubaguy | flaper87: do you think adding more about why in the process would help worry about the concerns about the innovation side of things? | 20:24 |
| flaper87 | dhellmann: I can use that as an example for oslo.log in the ref doc | 20:24 |
| ttx | flaper87: did you have further questions that you need answers on before you can produce another draft ? | 20:24 |
| mordred | writing code is a thing there are tons of people who love to do - so saying "we need some libraries written in $language" is unlikely to get much pushback | 20:24 |
| dtroyer | flaper87: that's why I suggested taking a different perspective and trying to ensure that the externals remain consistent, and getting there informed by what we learned with oslo | 20:24 |
| flaper87 | johnthetubaguy: yeah, I'm planning to do that too :D | 20:24 |
| flaper87 | ttx: nope, tbh, I'd like to hear from other folks (especially folks that were involved in the previous golang discussions notmyname *hint*) | 20:24 |
| mordred | espeically since the libraries in question have well defined semantics | 20:24 |
| flaper87 | other than that, I'm good for now and I've amends to work on | 20:25 |
| flaper87 | dtroyer: ++ | 20:25 |
| johnthetubaguy | flaper87: cool its that, so you have a prototype, you can save man years using this new language, help me understand the cost of not using python, well here you go, etc | 20:25 |
| ttx | flaper87: if you want specific feedback you might want to reach out more directly | 20:25 |
| mtreinish | johnthetubaguy: was that a go pun? :) | 20:25 |
| mordred | wow | 20:25 |
| flaper87 | ttx: yup, added some of these folks to the review, I'll go in crazy ping mode next | 20:25 |
| johnthetubaguy | heh, it wasn't meant to be | 20:25 |
| ttx | Gjøvik | 20:26 |
| stevemar__ | lol | 20:26 |
| mordred | yes. that | 20:26 |
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| ttx | because unicode ftw | 20:26 |
| mordred | please god call it that | 20:26 |
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| * flaper87 is done, fwiw | 20:26 | |
| ttx | flaper87: thx! | 20:26 |
| ttx | moving on to next topic then | 20:26 |
| stevemar__ | thx for leading this flaper87 | 20:27 |
| flaper87 | my pleasure | 20:27 |
| ttx | #topic Add project Zun to OpenStack big-tent (initial discussion) | 20:27 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Add project Zun to OpenStack big-tent (initial discussion) (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:27 | |
| ttx | #link https://review.openstack.org/402227 | 20:27 |
| hongbin | o/ for zun-related question | 20:27 |
| ttx | hongbin: o/ | 20:27 |
| ttx | I'l do a quick intro | 20:27 |
| ttx | As you may know, Magnum used to have COE-provisioning features and container-lifecycle features | 20:27 |
| ttx | Since those are actually targeting two different use cases, a number of us advocated for separating the two sets | 20:27 |
| ttx | Magnum retained the COE-provisioning abilities, and Zun was formed to host the container-lifecycle abilities | 20:28 |
| ttx | So this is more of a project split than a new project, in my view | 20:28 |
| mordred | yah | 20:28 |
| ttx | That said I'm happy that hongbin took the time to completely set up the project and team separately before applying | 20:28 |
| mordred | ++ | 20:28 |
| ttx | if anything that makes it even easier to make a call here | 20:28 |
| *** myoung|brb is now known as myoung | 20:28 | |
| flaper87 | ++ | 20:28 |
| dhellmann | ++ | 20:29 |
| ttx | I'll go on record saying I'm still unconvinced this approach has potential, but I'll fight to give them the chance to prove me wrong | 20:29 |
| dhellmann | same | 20:29 |
| ttx | Comments, objections ? | 20:29 |
| johnthetubaguy | same actually | 20:29 |
| mtreinish | so I did have a question in the review about how they seem to have a nova driver in tree | 20:29 |
| dhellmann | mtreinish , dims : there was a question about a "nova" tree in the zun repo | 20:29 |
| mtreinish | I'm curious if that's just a temp thing or a long term direction | 20:30 |
| hongbin | mtreinish: we have a driver that copied nova-docker code as a starting point | 20:30 |
| mtreinish | because I don't think we want to encourage projects to use unstable unsupported interfaces from other projects | 20:30 |
| fungi | dims seems to have addressed it half an hour ago | 20:30 |
| dhellmann | yeah, I think from a packaging perspective we'd want that part of the tree renamed to avoid colliding with the regular nova tree | 20:30 |
| armax | ttx: done | 20:30 |
| hongbin | mtreinish: the rational is to avoid duplicate what nova was doing | 20:30 |
| ttx | armax: great thanks! | 20:30 |
| johnthetubaguy | mtreinish: +1, although I wouldn't block on that I guess | 20:31 |
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| dhellmann | no, it's not a blocker, just pointing out some potential issues with packaging and deployment | 20:31 |
| ttx | (dougwig: octavia approved!) | 20:31 |
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| mtreinish | dhellmann: well it's a bit more than than that to me. It's more that it feels like we're sanctioning doing something the wrong way | 20:32 |
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| mtreinish | whether that's actually the case or not | 20:32 |
| hongbin | ok, i will discuss the packaging and deployment issue with the team | 20:32 |
| hongbin | thanks for the feedback | 20:32 |
| mtreinish | but I agree it's not really a blocker | 20:32 |
| dougwig | ttx: ty! | 20:32 |
| johnthetubaguy | hongbin: nova doesn't really support out of tree drivers, because that interface isn't stable, its worth knowing | 20:33 |
| hongbin | johnthetubaguy: ack | 20:33 |
| ttx | that makes zun a bit brittle, basically | 20:33 |
| johnthetubaguy | I am curious why the COE is not created by magnum, but thats a separate conversation I guess | 20:33 |
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| mtreinish | ttx: that's why I brought it up. Because if that's the long term direction to do that it raises some flags | 20:34 |
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| fungi | yeah, the docker driver's checkered past should serve as a signpost | 20:34 |
| ttx | mtreinish: good catch | 20:34 |
| ttx | Shall we wait until next week to finally approve as usual, or should we fast-track it since it's more of a project split ? (and it has already the required approvals) | 20:35 |
| ttx | I'm fine letting it bake for the week to give others a chance to comment | 20:35 |
| ttx | but also fine approving it now since there is nothing that forces us to do it in two meetings | 20:36 |
| fungi | i'm fine with immediate approval on this one | 20:36 |
| dhellmann | I agree, we can go ahead | 20:36 |
| fungi | looks like we already have rc x10 on this | 20:36 |
| ttx | alright then, let's win some precious minutes and not force hongbin to get up next week at very early hours | 20:37 |
| ttx | approved | 20:37 |
| ttx | hongbin: welcome back! | 20:37 |
| hongbin | thanks all for reviewing the application | 20:37 |
| hongbin | ttx: thx! | 20:37 |
| ttx | let's move on to next topic... | 20:38 |
| ttx | #topic Visions for the TC and OpenStack | 20:38 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Visions for the TC and OpenStack (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:38 | |
| ttx | johnthetubaguy started two documents to work on visions for the TC and OpenStack: | 20:38 |
| ttx | Add a draft TC vision structure: https://review.openstack.org/401225 | 20:38 |
| ttx | Add a draft OpenStack technical vision: https://review.openstack.org/401226 | 20:38 |
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| ttx | I commented that those are not visions (yet) -- and I'm not convinced Gerrit changes are the best way to get to something we can all review | 20:38 |
| ttx | I would rather collaborate on an etherpad for fast iterations / brainstorming, but I'm fine leaving the choices of weapons to whoever is pushing it :) | 20:39 |
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| johnthetubaguy | yeah, so I wanted to get something down for us to discuss | 20:39 |
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| johnthetubaguy | I guess the first thing, is the TC vision | 20:39 |
| ttx | Also I would rather not do both in parallel :) | 20:39 |
| ttx | there is only so many cans of worms you can hold open at the same time | 20:40 |
| johnthetubaguy | yeah +1 that | 20:40 |
| mordred | bah. we can hold SO MANY CANS of worms | 20:40 |
| dhellmann | it's useful to have both to make the scope of each clear, but I agree that it'll be easier to work on them one at a time | 20:40 |
| johnthetubaguy | these patches are really just me thinking out loud | 20:40 |
| johnthetubaguy | yeah, I think the TC vision could include, we should create an OpenStack vision | 20:40 |
| johnthetubaguy | but yeah, the scope is a bit clearer in my head now | 20:41 |
| johnthetubaguy | so the TC vision, do people think we should start with that one? | 20:41 |
| johnthetubaguy | and do people agree that would be useful? | 20:41 |
| ttx | johnthetubaguy: "we created a vision for openstack", you mean :) | 20:41 |
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| johnthetubaguy | ttx: true, true | 20:41 |
| dhellmann | johnthetubaguy : yes, I think it makes sense to start small and focus on a tc vision | 20:42 |
| johnthetubaguy | ttx: I added a new patch on the TC one to have more vision-ey bits in it | 20:42 |
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| johnthetubaguy | so the personal struggle I have is wanting to point the general direction we are going | 20:42 |
| ttx | johnthetubaguy: you weren't at the Ann Arbor training iirc ? | 20:42 |
| johnthetubaguy | but I get a vision, with concrete what success lucks like is going to be more useful | 20:43 |
| johnthetubaguy | ttx: I wasn't | 20:43 |
| ttx | One trick is that some of us (who attended this training) now have a coherent vision (ha!) of what a vision looks like, would be great if gothicmindfood could give you an overview | 20:43 |
| johnthetubaguy | I have been pointed at the Ziggman stuff on visions thats public | 20:43 |
| ttx | would save you time | 20:43 |
| edleafe | johnthetubaguy: haven't had a chance to read them yet, but what is the intended audience for these visions? | 20:44 |
| dhellmann | some of the rest of what's here could go into the charter (the relationships stuff, for example) -- now that I say it here, I think maybe someone already said that on a review | 20:44 |
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| ttx | johnthetubaguy: it's not as if we practiced that skill that much, so you're not really late to the party :) | 20:44 |
| johnthetubaguy | dhellmann: yeah, I think some of this probably migrates into an expanded charter | 20:44 |
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| johnthetubaguy | so I would love to see us get a TC vision agreed by the end of the PTG | 20:45 |
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| johnthetubaguy | my focus is really, how do we set oursevles up for success | 20:45 |
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| dhellmann | what changes do people want to see in the TC or how it operates between now and then? | 20:46 |
| ttx | johnthetubaguy: I think we could reuse the stewardship WG to make regular progress on this | 20:46 |
| dhellmann | where "then" is the end of the time frame laid out here, the end of Queens | 20:46 |
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| johnthetubaguy | ttx: yes, that makes sense to me | 20:46 |
| johnthetubaguy | dhellmann: yeah | 20:46 |
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| johnthetubaguy | I picked the end of queens, because its in the future, but not too far away | 20:46 |
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| dhellmann | I think that's a good target | 20:47 |
| ttx | I'm skeptical we can slowly turn the review into the final document though, so I would abandon them and invite interested people to join the SWG meetings / channel | 20:47 |
| johnthetubaguy | ttx: yep, thats fine | 20:47 |
| johnthetubaguy | I could get this into a etherpad, and pass it along to the next SWG | 20:47 |
| ttx | that would be great | 20:47 |
| fungi | i agree that should be far faster for initial draft collaboration | 20:47 |
| fungi | final polish in code review should still be fine | 20:48 |
| johnthetubaguy | yeah, after having drafted this, its totally an etherpad thing | 20:48 |
| ttx | right, I'm pretty sure we'll still nitpick it to death in the end... | 20:48 |
| johnthetubaguy | I was shooting for merging bits, and evolving it in tree, but its totally not that kind of thing | 20:48 |
| dhellmann | yeah, and since we'll have multiples of these it might end up landing as a resolution instead of a top-level document | 20:49 |
| ttx | #info We'll work on the vision for the TC first | 20:49 |
| johnthetubaguy | dhellmann: yeah, not a bad idea | 20:49 |
| ttx | #info The vision for the TC may include completing a vision for openstack | 20:49 |
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| johnthetubaguy | there are probably bits that turn into expanding bits of the charter I guess | 20:49 |
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| ttx | #info We'll grow a base proposal using the Stewardship WG as a vessel | 20:50 |
| dhellmann | yeah, maybe those can come out into their own patches | 20:50 |
| ttx | #action johnthetubaguy to turn the governance reviews into etherpad(s) to discuss in the WG, and encourage people interested to join to attend SWG WG meetings | 20:50 |
| ttx | johnthetubaguy: did I capture the next steps well ? | 20:51 |
| johnthetubaguy | anyways, wanted to try get *something* moving, so success | 20:51 |
| dhellmann | johnthetubaguy : ++ | 20:51 |
| johnthetubaguy | ttx: yeah, I think thats good | 20:51 |
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| johnthetubaguy | thank you | 20:51 |
| ttx | johnthetubaguy: cool | 20:51 |
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| ttx | Let's open it up for... | 20:51 |
| ttx | #topic Open discussion | 20:52 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:52 | |
| ttx | stevemar: I saw you added the "formal-vote" topic to https://review.openstack.org/401990 ... did you want to discuss it in meeting ? | 20:52 |
| ttx | Or you think we should generally discuss repository removals ? | 20:52 |
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| mtreinish | so I had one quick question, when is a good time to start discussing pike goals? | 20:52 |
| dhellmann | I started a mailing list discussion about driver-specific teams. I would appreciate everyone participating in that discussion | 20:52 |
| dhellmann | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2016-November/thread.html#108074 | 20:52 |
| mtreinish | I want to revive the tempest plugin goal at some point | 20:52 |
| ttx | mtreinish: I'd say now | 20:52 |
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| EmilienM | mtreinish: I was about to run it :) | 20:52 |
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| EmilienM | mtreinish: it's on my list to send it tonight or tomorrow morning | 20:52 |
| ttx | mtreinish: in a future "normal" cycle that would be around summit (middle of the cycle) time | 20:52 |
| ttx | but there is no summit in the middle of Ocata so now is as good a time as any imho | 20:53 |
| mtreinish | ttx: ok cool, I'll work on respinning that patch soon then | 20:53 |
| ttx | #info EmilienM volunteers to drive Pike goals identification | 20:54 |
| dhellmann | thanks, EmilienM! | 20:54 |
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| stevemar__ | ttx: sorry, i thought i was being helpful and thought all repo removals needed their topic to be formal vote | 20:54 |
| ttx | Note that we'll have rooms at the pTG available if people want to get together and make quick progress on whatever goal we end up defining | 20:54 |
| EmilienM | #info EmilienM volunteers to also drive OpenStack goals feedback | 20:54 |
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| ttx | stevemar__: if someone objects to a removal during the "lazy consensus week" then i'll raise it for the meeting | 20:55 |
| ttx | otherwise we'll just merge it | 20:55 |
| stevemar__ | ttx: rgr that, i'll change the topic then | 20:55 |
| ttx | ok, I'll clean up the topic then | 20:55 |
| ttx | stevemar__: done | 20:55 |
| stevemar__ | ++ | 20:55 |
| ttx | dhellmann: did you want to point people to the driver-team patches ? | 20:56 |
| ttx | and/or the thread discussion ? | 20:56 |
| ttx | It's on the agenda for next week meeting | 20:56 |
| dhellmann | ttx: they're all linked from the ml thread that I just posted | 20:56 |
| dhellmann | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2016-November/thread.html#108074 | 20:56 |
| dhellmann | there it is again | 20:56 |
| ttx | oh, missed that, great | 20:56 |
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| ttx | ok, anything else ? | 20:57 |
| dhellmann | this is one of those topics where the outcome can have unintended consequences, so please read carefully | 20:57 |
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| ttx | FWIW I'm making progress on making a neutral governance website that holds TC, UC , election docs | 20:58 |
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| ttx | maybe board one day, one never knows | 20:58 |
| fungi | yeah, i'm just now looking for the change you linked for me earlier in the infra channel | 20:58 |
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| mtreinish | dhellmann: fwiw, I wonder why a vendor would really want tc oversight. Also how is that something we could actually exert any influence over? | 20:58 |
| mtreinish | but I'll take that to the ml (or wait for next weeks meeting) | 20:59 |
| ttx | fungi: cool, because we now publish to the new directory so the changes do not appear until you flip it | 20:59 |
| dhellmann | mtreinish : the cisco team has already asked for it | 20:59 |
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| fungi | ttx: the files are getting published to the new /srv/static/tc tree so should be safe to update the vhost now | 20:59 |
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| dhellmann | mtreinish : https://review.openstack.org/363709 | 20:59 |
| ttx | fungi: ++ | 20:59 |
| mtreinish | dhellmann: right, but do they actual have a reason? or is it just they think that's a requirement for marketting or something? | 20:59 |
| dhellmann | mtreinish : does it matter? | 20:59 |
| ttx | mtreinish: discoverability is one, having their contributions count as "openstack" is another | 21:00 |
| cdent | dhellmann: shouldn't it? | 21:00 |
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| dhellmann | mtreinish, cdent : I respond to that point in the thread, so I won't repeat myself here. | 21:00 |
| ttx | and... we are off time | 21:00 |
| fungi | ttx: seems to be https://review.openstack.org/395660 so i'll get it going here in a sec | 21:00 |
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| ttx | let's continue that discussion on the ML, the reviews and at the meeting next week | 21:00 |
| ttx | #endmeeting | 21:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 21:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Nov 29 21:00:37 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 21:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2016/tc.2016-11-29-20.01.html | 21:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2016/tc.2016-11-29-20.01.txt | 21:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2016/tc.2016-11-29-20.01.log.html | 21:00 |
| ttx | Thanks everyone! | 21:00 |
| oneswig | And on that happy note | 21:01 |
| b1airo | #startmeeting scientific-wg | 21:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Nov 29 21:01:06 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is b1airo. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 21:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 21:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: scientific-wg)" | 21:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'scientific_wg' | 21:01 |
| oneswig | Greetings all | 21:01 |
| b1airo | #chair oneswig | 21:01 |
| openstack | Current chairs: b1airo oneswig | 21:01 |
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| trandles | hello | 21:01 |
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| jmlowe | hello | 21:01 |
| b1airo | gday | 21:01 |
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| oneswig | hi all | 21:01 |
| b1airo | how's things? | 21:02 |
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| oneswig | #link Agenda items https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Scientific_working_group#IRC_Meeting_November_29th_2016 | 21:02 |
| b1airo | good thanksgiving break jmlowe, trandles ? | 21:02 |
| jmlowe | getting back to normal | 21:02 |
| trandles | yessir, thank you | 21:02 |
| oneswig | All well here, had the research councils UK cloud workshop today | 21:02 |
| priteau | Good * | 21:03 |
| trandles | is everyone done with the mad travel schedule for the rest of 2016? | 21:03 |
| b1airo | ah cool - did you chair / present something? | 21:03 |
| jmlowe | I was home for a day and took the family to my inlaws in TX | 21:03 |
| oneswig | I presented, kind of chaired, but that aspect was fairly minimal | 21:03 |
| trandles | well attended oneswig ? | 21:03 |
| b1airo | trandles, yes - though i already have 5 o/s trips in my calendar for 2017 | 21:03 |
| trandles | ouch b1airo | 21:03 |
| oneswig | trandles: 140-odd I believe - not a sell-out but a good crowd | 21:03 |
| oneswig | b1airo: coming to the UK? | 21:04 |
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| b1airo | oneswig, hopefully! but that isn't one of the firm ones yet | 21:04 |
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| martial | (sorry I am late, meeting running over) | 21:04 |
| oneswig | What do we need to do to win the Bethwaited account, I wonder... | 21:04 |
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| oneswig | Hi Martial | 21:05 |
| b1airo | #chair martial | 21:05 |
| openstack | Current chairs: b1airo martial oneswig | 21:05 |
| b1airo | hi martial | 21:05 |
| martial | Hi Stig, Blair | 21:05 |
| oneswig | Time to tee off? | 21:05 |
| b1airo | yep, want to tell us about your vxlan results? | 21:05 |
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| jmlowe | I'll poke Bob and see if he's available | 21:05 |
| oneswig | OK, lets do that... | 21:05 |
| rocky_g | o/ | 21:05 |
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| oneswig | #topic TCP bandwidth over VXLAN and OVS | 21:06 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "TCP bandwidth over VXLAN and OVS (Meeting topic: scientific-wg)" | 21:06 | |
| b1airo | hi rocky_g | 21:06 |
| oneswig | Hi rocky_g | 21:06 |
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| oneswig | So, this has been a bit of a saga ever since we realised how much our shiny new deployment with its 50G/100G network sucked in this respect | 21:06 |
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| rocky_g | Hey! This meeting time works great for me...I just stay on after the TC | 21:07 |
| jmlowe | oneswig: I take it you get near line rate when doing bare metal? | 21:07 |
| oneswig | We were seeing instance to instance bandwidth around 1.2gbits/s measured using iperf | 21:07 |
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| oneswig | jmlowe: bare metal, 1 stream TCP, 46 gbits/s | 21:07 |
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| jmlowe | close enough | 21:07 |
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| oneswig | I was satisfied :-) | 21:08 |
| rbudden | hello | 21:08 |
| oneswig | Hi rbudden | 21:08 |
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| rbudden | sorry, the time change got me! | 21:08 |
| jmlowe | are you sysctl's posted somewhere? | 21:08 |
| b1airo | oneswig, 1 stream?! e5-2680v3 ? | 21:08 |
| b1airo | what window size? | 21:08 |
| oneswig | Not sysctls for that, didn't do any... | 21:08 |
| jmlowe | wow | 21:08 |
| b1airo | jmlowe, +1 | 21:08 |
| oneswig | I know, I was quite pleased. | 21:09 |
| b1airo | think there might be an element of VW tuning in play?? ;-) | 21:09 |
| rocky_g | Yeah, bare metal looks good, but the vm stuff really *sucks* | 21:09 |
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| oneswig | Anyway, we got VM-to-VM bandwidth up after much tuning | 21:09 |
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| jmlowe | my sysctl's https://raw.githubusercontent.com/jetstream-cloud/Jetstream-Salt-States/master/states/10gige.sls | 21:09 |
| jmlowe | use them everywhere | 21:10 |
| oneswig | First move was to turn off all those power-saving states and some things Mellanox support recommended disabling | 21:10 |
| oneswig | That got us to around 2-3 gbits/s | 21:10 |
| oneswig | oh. | 21:10 |
| oneswig | Tried a new kernel after that - 4.7.10 - apparently there is better handling of offloading of encapsulated traffic further upstream | 21:11 |
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| oneswig | Got us to 11gbits/s | 21:11 |
| priteau | nice | 21:11 |
| oneswig | Then we turned off hyperthreading - all those wimpy cores are fine for production but no good for hero numbers | 21:11 |
| oneswig | Then we were up around 18gbits/s | 21:12 |
| oneswig | Then I did VCPU-to-PCPU core pinning | 21:12 |
| oneswig | that hit 21 gbits/s | 21:12 |
| b1airo | oneswig, so where do Mellanox's shiny graphs (e.g. advertising CX-3 Pro 2+ years ago) come from...? | 21:12 |
| b1airo | ahhh! i assumed you were pinning to begin with | 21:13 |
| oneswig | That's CX-3 - and apparently the driver had a lot of capabilities back-ported to it which don't translate to mlx4 - that backporting process must be redone | 21:13 |
| oneswig | b1airo: no - actually this was a proper nuisance | 21:13 |
| b1airo | meanwhile CX-6 has been announced... | 21:13 |
| oneswig | Certainly the next bit - NUMA passthrough - I had to build a new QEMU-KVM - what you get with CentOS is nobbled | 21:14 |
| trandles | the amount of fixes/improvements going into upstream kernels for cx-4 and cx-5 are staggering | 21:14 |
| jmlowe | even the qemu 2.3 from the ev repo? | 21:14 |
| b1airo | ha yeah, 1990s | 21:14 |
| oneswig | b1airo: announced for when? | 21:14 |
| oneswig | jmlowe: Does that work for CentOS? Not sure if it does? | 21:15 |
| b1airo | oneswig, same time as HDR presumably | 21:15 |
| oneswig | b1airo: wait a minute, I thought that was announced at SC ... :-) | 21:15 |
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| oneswig | Anyhow, I built and packaged QEMU-KVM 2.4.1, set isolcpus to give the host OS + OVS 4 cores, and pinned the VM to the NUMA node with the NIC attached to it. | 21:16 |
| oneswig | That got me to 24.3 gbits/s | 21:16 |
| b1airo | indeed - don't know whether there are even any eng. samples yet though | 21:16 |
| jmlowe | this works just fine for us, has 2.3 in it, now if they could just get a non antique libvirt http://mirror.centos.org/centos/7/virt/x86_64/kvm-common/ | 21:16 |
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| oneswig | jmlowe: ooh, that's good - thanks, makes my life easier | 21:17 |
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| martial | jmlowe: there was a few posts about this on the ML recently if my memory is correct | 21:17 |
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| b1airo | jmlowe, you're talking about the rhev repos for centos? | 21:17 |
| jmlowe | I should read the ml more carefully | 21:17 |
| jmlowe | yeah, that's the one | 21:17 |
| b1airo | oneswig, something of a saga then | 21:18 |
| oneswig | I had to find an EFI boot ROM RPM from somewhere as well - the package I rebuilt from fedora had a load of broken links in it | 21:18 |
| b1airo | and still only 50% of your bare-metal performance | 21:18 |
| priteau | Looks like they may even have QEMU 2.6 soon: https://cbs.centos.org/koji/buildinfo?buildID=13884 | 21:18 |
| oneswig | That's where I am now - but the joy of it is that a rising tide lifts all boats. | 21:18 |
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| b1airo | what are mellanox doing to make this right? | 21:18 |
| oneswig | From doing this tinkering, I got SR-IOV bandwidth raised from 33gbits/s->42gbits/s and bare metal to 46gbits/s | 21:19 |
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| rocky_g | And have you considered writing this up as a superuser blog? | 21:19 |
| b1airo | ha! | 21:20 |
| oneswig | rocky_g: that would be fab. I am writing it up next time I get on a train - tomorrow - will share | 21:20 |
| rocky_g | Fantastic! | 21:20 |
| jmlowe | any thoughts as to how much of a difference if any there would be with linuxbridge vs ovs? | 21:20 |
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| oneswig | jmlowe: Ah, what a question | 21:20 |
| jmlowe | being probably the only linxubridge guy here, I had to ask | 21:21 |
| oneswig | I think there would be a positive uplift from ditching OVS, but tripleO has no means to deploy without i | 21:21 |
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| oneswig | There was more on this: the kernel capabilities gained in 4.x are being backported by RH to the 7.3 kernel | 21:22 |
| jmlowe | I haven't been following triple o, the latest install guides have dropped ovs? wondering if triple o would follow | 21:22 |
| oneswig | Which makes the whole process much more attainable. | 21:22 |
| oneswig | jmlowe: I'd need to check, I may be out of date but I hadn't seen that | 21:23 |
| b1airo | so oneswig, had mellanox never looked at vxlan performance with CX-4 ? | 21:23 |
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| oneswig | b1airo: who knows? I'm sure they are busy people :-) | 21:23 |
| oneswig | I can't fault their efforts to get a solution once the issue was clear | 21:24 |
| b1airo | yes, us either - just think their testing leaves something to be desired | 21:25 |
| leong | o/ | 21:25 |
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| oneswig | #action oneswig to write up a report and share the details on reproducing | 21:25 |
| oneswig | Hi leong | 21:25 |
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| oneswig | OK next topic? | 21:25 |
| oneswig | #topic telemetry and monitoring - research computing use cases | 21:26 |
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| oneswig | OK this is one of our activity areas for this cycle, I wanted to get some WG thoughts down | 21:26 |
| jmlowe | I've got two use cases | 21:27 |
| martial | so there was a good conversation on the ML recently | 21:27 |
| oneswig | I think there are specific use cases we like that others don't need | 21:27 |
| oneswig | #link etherpad for brainstorming | 21:27 |
| oneswig | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/scientific-wg-telemetry-and-monitoring | 21:27 |
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| oneswig | martial: got a link to the mailing list thread? | 21:28 |
| martial | they mentioned Collectd | 21:28 |
| martial | let me find it out | 21:28 |
| oneswig | martial: thanks | 21:28 |
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| leong | for the telemetry and monitoring? are we looking at "enhancing" existing related openstack project to support those features/use-cases of scientific? | 21:29 |
| oneswig | leong: interesting question. Lots of problems with existing projects | 21:30 |
| jmlowe | I've added my 3 current active use cases to the etherpad | 21:30 |
| oneswig | jmlowe: what do you mean by the first? | 21:30 |
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| martial | FYI, we are developing a solution in house for telemetry aggregation | 21:31 |
| oneswig | Great one b1airo | 21:32 |
| leong | ok.. back step a bit.. are we aiming to create a user story in PWG and then perform gap analysis, then decide the best solution from there? | 21:32 |
| martial | I have to find it in the archive, but it was an email: [Openstack-operators] VM monitoring suggestions | 21:32 |
| jmlowe | for every hour there is an event generated in the ceilometer (now new project that I can't remember) database of instance exists with a start and end time up to the next hour, the cpu count, project, user and that can relatively easily be adapted to look like a hpc job and can be fed into existing hpc job reporting systems | 21:32 |
| oneswig | leong: that's a likely path I'd guess. We already have a federation user story in review | 21:32 |
| leong | great oneswig! | 21:33 |
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| rocky_g | gnochhi | 21:33 |
| martial | cloudkitty | 21:34 |
| leong | having initial discussion on etherpad is a good start. Moving that discussion towards PWG user story will be able to keep track of the historical viewpoint/discussion on gerrit | 21:34 |
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| martial | our solution relies on a python library using psutil and we are also using ganglia | 21:34 |
| oneswig | leong: this is how the other story first took shape | 21:34 |
| oneswig | martial: got any documentation online for it? | 21:34 |
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| leong | there are new project evolving, including gnocchi, aodh which might be able to meet the needs.. however, without a formal description of the problem/use-case, it is hard to comment | 21:35 |
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| martial | oneswig: giving a link to my team member to the etherpad to describe it | 21:35 |
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| jmlowe | I'm looking at doing something with some civil engineers who have a stream of time series data coming from traffic cameras, they need to have continuous ingestion and aggregation, I'm going to try them with gnocchi and get them off of their 5TB ms sql db | 21:36 |
| leong | it is also worthwhile to mention/document what existing solutions are adopted by existing scientific users in the User Story. | 21:36 |
| oneswig | #link previous user story on federation - please review https://review.openstack.org/#/c/400738/ | 21:36 |
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| martial | jmlowe: I need to get you in touch with a colleague of mine | 21:36 |
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| martial | jmlowe: and our Data Science team that does work on traffic camera data :) | 21:37 |
| b1airo | jmlowe, o_0 | 21:37 |
| oneswig | leong: so one relevant shortcoming is I don't believe there is any way to transiently enable high-resolution telemetry - just as an example | 21:37 |
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| jmlowe | I suspect there are a lot of civil engineers grabbing data from their state's DOT and we could probably make a thing that several of them could use | 21:37 |
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| b1airo | jmlowe, i think you will be happy with gnochhi - we have it deployed in nectar and seems to work weel | 21:38 |
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| b1airo | *well | 21:38 |
| oneswig | jmlowe: 5TB of SQL... | 21:39 |
| jmlowe | I've been using gnocchi since the 1.x series | 21:39 |
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| jmlowe | each major release has been an order of magnitude improvement | 21:39 |
| oneswig | We were using Influx as backend but are stuck now, what does Gnocchi use nowadays? | 21:39 |
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| b1airo | oneswig, stuck why? because they ripped influx out? | 21:40 |
| jmlowe | file, and ceph, and one other | 21:40 |
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| jmlowe | if you use ceph make sure you are on the 3.x series | 21:40 |
| rocky_g | fluent maybe? | 21:40 |
| priteau | http://gnocchi.xyz/architecture.html#how-to-choose-back-ends | 21:40 |
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| b1airo | oneswig, we (well really sorrison) put influx support back and redesigned the driver | 21:41 |
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| oneswig | Others have said the Ceph backend kind of consumes the ceph - needs its own dedicated cluster - I wonder what rate of time-series metrics is attainable | 21:42 |
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| b1airo | not sure where the reviews are at - but pretty sure it is all going upstream | 21:42 |
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| jmlowe | I have very nice things to say about Gordon Chang, one of the gnocchi devs, he's been immensely helpful | 21:42 |
| oneswig | b1airo: that's good, but I don't think we'd pay Influx for the clustered backend | 21:42 |
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| b1airo | don't need to | 21:43 |
| b1airo | i could get sorrison to join next week and give us the low-down | 21:43 |
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| jmlowe | the ceph backend in the 1.x series relied too heavily on xattrs which didn't scale, the 2.x series created too many new objects which lead to lock contention and slow ops warnings, the 3.x series has been problem free | 21:43 |
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| oneswig | b1airo: which timezone works best for sorrison? | 21:43 |
| b1airo | probably next week - he rows in the mornings | 21:44 |
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| oneswig | b1airo: sounds good to me | 21:44 |
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| b1airo | oneswig, this might(?) be the tree he's been working on: https://github.com/NeCTAR-RC/gnocchi/tree/nectar/2.2 | 21:45 |
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| oneswig | What do people use for monitoring the health of OpenStack itself? We have used Monasca, the agent gathers useful data out of the box | 21:47 |
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| b1airo | oneswig, how did you find the setup ? | 21:48 |
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| jmlowe | we've been using zabbix, because it was there, I'd love to use something better | 21:48 |
| martial | found the ML thread: http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-operators/2016-November/012129.html | 21:48 |
| leong | oneswig: You mean the OpenStack control-plane? | 21:48 |
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| leong | nagios is one | 21:48 |
| oneswig | My team mate took quite a few unhappy days on it - Monasca seems to have no concept of a lightweight solution :-) | 21:48 |
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| rbudden | we use naemon at PSC for most of our monitoring | 21:48 |
| priteau | oneswig: we use Nagios with plugins from https://github.com/cirrax/openstack-nagios-plugins | 21:49 |
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| oneswig | rbudden: got a link to that? | 21:49 |
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| rbudden | oneswig: http://www.naemon.org | 21:50 |
| oneswig | leong: yes - for example we get historical data of per-service CPU & RAM consumption | 21:50 |
| rbudden | i believe it’s a fork from Nagios | 21:50 |
| rocky_g | has anyone looked at the Vitrage project? I know it's supposed to be root cause analysis, but what does that project use to capture and store their info? | 21:50 |
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| oneswig | Wasn't Zabbix also an evolution of Nagios? I sense a bake-off coming | 21:50 |
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| b1airo | the attractive thing about monasca is that it understands openstack - nagios is easy for monitoring process and service state, but what about all the stuff flying around on the MQ | 21:50 |
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| trandles | we use LDMS/OVIS https://ovis.ca.sandia.gov/mediawiki/index.php/Main_Page | 21:51 |
| oneswig | rocky_g: saw the keynote - was blown away - not seen anything since | 21:51 |
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| jmlowe | how heavy is heavy when it comes to monasca | 21:51 |
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| b1airo | we use nagios and ganglia at the host level, elk for api data | 21:51 |
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| oneswig | jmlowe: It uses a lot of Apache stack - Kafka, Storm, etc. | 21:52 |
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| oneswig | Glued together with data-moving services of its own | 21:52 |
| rocky_g | This is all great info to capture on the etherpad.... | 21:52 |
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| oneswig | rocky_g: I'm going to print the whole thing out and put it on my wall :-) | 21:52 |
| jmlowe | must keep from making an ouroboros | 21:52 |
| martial | rocky_g: doing what I can to make that happen :) | 21:53 |
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| oneswig | jmlowe: ouroboros - I have learned something today | 21:53 |
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| oneswig | Final issues to lob in: who monitors OpenStack event notifications, and how? | 21:54 |
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| b1airo | as in the queues oneswig ? | 21:54 |
| trandles | oneswig: I've played with it a tiny bit using splunk | 21:54 |
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| oneswig | One aspect of Monasca I quite like is that it hoovers up everything and anything | 21:55 |
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| oneswig | b1airo: json blobs that get thrown out whenever nova/cinder/etc does anything useful | 21:55 |
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| oneswig | those things | 21:55 |
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| oneswig | oslo.notification? | 21:55 |
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| trandles | oh, I don't touch the json, I was feeding the normal logs to splunk and building searches | 21:56 |
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| oneswig | OK, does anyone have infrastructure that triggers alerts based on log messages? - trandles looks like you're up to this | 21:56 |
| b1airo | yeah i was just wondering if you meant notification.error in particular, or everything | 21:56 |
| rocky_g | There are config options to capture those or not. | 21:56 |
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| trandles | oneswig: exactly | 21:57 |
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| b1airo | we have nagios alerts on certain queues | 21:57 |
| oneswig | b1airo: everything - want to reconstruct into timelines (os-profiler?) | 21:57 |
| b1airo | just based on ready message count | 21:57 |
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| b1airo | we're almost out of time | 21:58 |
| trandles | our operations folks use zenoss to actually trigger alerts but I've never talked to them about feeding openstack data into it | 21:58 |
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| b1airo | priteau, we didn't talk about workload traces | 21:58 |
| b1airo | next time? | 21:59 |
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| rocky_g | Next time... | 21:59 |
| oneswig | priteau: sounds good to me, fits in well | 21:59 |
| priteau | b1airo: Let's put it on the agenda for next itme | 21:59 |
| b1airo | does next week's TZ work for you? | 21:59 |
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| b1airo | or week after? | 21:59 |
| priteau | I join both meetings :-) | 21:59 |
| b1airo | i thought you did - just a little hungover this morning... | 21:59 |
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| b1airo | (xmas parties have started already) | 22:00 |
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| b1airo | thanks all! | 22:00 |
| b1airo | #endmeeting | 22:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 22:00 | |
| oneswig | thanks everyone - | 22:00 |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Nov 29 22:00:21 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 22:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/scientific_wg/2016/scientific_wg.2016-11-29-21.01.html | 22:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/scientific_wg/2016/scientific_wg.2016-11-29-21.01.txt | 22:00 |
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| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/scientific_wg/2016/scientific_wg.2016-11-29-21.01.log.html | 22:00 |
| oneswig | great session | 22:00 |
| martial | I see my colleague added content to the Etherpad | 22:00 |
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| rbudden | thanks! | 22:00 |
| martial | feel free to reach out to him with questions | 22:00 |
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| rocky_g | thanks! | 22:00 |
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| martial | thanks all | 22:00 |
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