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| tangchen | Hi guys, is the third party meeting going to be held here ? | 07:58 |
|---|---|---|
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| anteaya | I'm not a guy | 08:00 |
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| anteaya | and yes there will be a meeting here, at 0800 as I stated in the -infra channel several hours ago | 08:00 |
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| tangchen | I'm sorry. UTC 0800, what's the time now ? | 08:02 |
| -openstackstatus- NOTICE: zuul has been restarted and queues restored. It may take some time to work through the backlog. | 08:02 | |
| tangchen | I thought now it is UTC 0800...... | 08:03 |
| anteaya | yes it is | 08:03 |
| kaisers | Hi | 08:03 |
| tangchen | OK. | 08:03 |
| tangchen | If I want to say something, should I say it here, or move to #openstack-infra | 08:03 |
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| anteaya | can you please exercise a bit of patience | 08:04 |
| anteaya | the topic needs to be fixed | 08:04 |
| anteaya | then I will start the meeting | 08:04 |
| tangchen | Sure. thx | 08:04 |
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| anteaya | hopefully it will be fixed after the meeting | 08:07 |
| anteaya | #startmeeting third-party | 08:07 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Jul 28 08:07:16 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is anteaya. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 08:07 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 08:07 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: third-party)" | 08:07 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'third_party' | 08:07 |
| anteaya | so tangchen do go ahead | 08:07 |
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| tangchen | OK | 08:07 |
| eantyshev | hello! | 08:08 |
| tangchen | Please take a look at here. http://paste.openstack.org/show/406017/ | 08:08 |
| anteaya | tangchen: why | 08:08 |
| anteaya | don't just tell me to click a link | 08:08 |
| anteaya | give me context | 08:08 |
| tangchen | I'm now working on setting up CI system for Fujitsu. I met a proxy issue when using zuul. | 08:08 |
| anteaya | thank you | 08:09 |
| tangchen | I explained the context in the link. | 08:09 |
| anteaya | that is less helpful in a meeting | 08:09 |
| anteaya | #link http://paste.openstack.org/show/406017/ | 08:09 |
| anteaya | but that you for trying to be clear | 08:10 |
| anteaya | so you are asking permission to post patches to zuul? | 08:10 |
| anteaya | anyone can post patches to zuul | 08:10 |
| tangchen | Yes, so this kind of topic should not be discussed in a meeting, right? | 08:10 |
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| anteaya | oh no it can be discussed | 08:12 |
| anteaya | but your goal is to post patches to zuul, is it not? | 08:12 |
| tangchen | Yes it is. | 08:12 |
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| anteaya | you don't need anyone's permission to do that | 08:12 |
| anteaya | now if you had a patch to zuul and were asking for reviews | 08:12 |
| anteaya | that would be something wonderful to bring to a meeting | 08:12 |
| anteaya | as we can see what code you would like to introduce | 08:13 |
| anteaya | and possibly review | 08:13 |
| anteaya | does that make sense | 08:13 |
| tangchen | OK. I can bring a patch here when I finished it. But before that, I also want some advice about how to make zuul work behind a proxy. | 08:14 |
| tangchen | Has anyone met the same problem before ? | 08:15 |
| kaisers | Sry, no exp with zuul / proxy | 08:15 |
| anteaya | most of the people who are encountering this are in china | 08:16 |
| anteaya | as china sets up a firewall | 08:16 |
| anteaya | all infra tools were actually designed to not have to think about a firewall | 08:16 |
| anteaya | as open source doesn't need one | 08:16 |
| anteaya | and these are open source tools being used with an open source project | 08:17 |
| tangchen | Oh no, I think it has nothing to do with the firewall in China. I set up the CI system on a machine in Japan. | 08:17 |
| tangchen | The proxy is set by the company. | 08:17 |
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| tangchen | for some security reasons | 08:18 |
| anteaya | oh | 08:18 |
| anteaya | they really need security on throw away nodes? | 08:19 |
| anteaya | all of the infra tools need their own servers | 08:19 |
| anteaya | they should be on their own network | 08:19 |
| anteaya | and not share server space with anything else | 08:19 |
| anteaya | they aren't good neighbours | 08:19 |
| anteaya | and most folks don't have zuul behind a firewall | 08:21 |
| anteaya | so there will be fewer operators in the same situation | 08:21 |
| tangchen | In my environment, servers cannot connect to internet directly. They should pass a proxy to limit which site can be accessed and which one cannot. | 08:21 |
| eantyshev | tangchen: May I ask a small question regarding your CI setup: how do you provide logs of your CI? | 08:22 |
| lennyb_ | hi, sorry I am late | 08:22 |
| tangchen | <anteaya>: The zuul server is in the private environment. And it has to connect to Gerrit. So I want zuul to support a proxy. | 08:23 |
| anteaya | lennyb_: no problem | 08:23 |
| anteaya | tangchen: I understand | 08:23 |
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| anteaya | tangchen: you asked if anyone else had the same issue, I'm saying it will be harder to find operators who have the same issue | 08:24 |
| anteaya | tangchen: the folks from china are all behind a firewall, so might have some experience | 08:24 |
| tangchen | eantyshev: I'm trying to set up a log server. But the logs may not be shared in the internet. | 08:24 |
| eantyshev | tangchen: that's what I mean, you will need public server to export logs | 08:25 |
| tangchen | anteaya: OK. I understood. :) | 08:26 |
| anteaya | eantyshev: thanks for bringing that point up | 08:27 |
| anteaya | tangchen: the point of the logs is for them to be shared on the internet | 08:27 |
| anteaya | tangchen: if you don't share them, you can't comment on patches | 08:27 |
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| tangchen | eantyshev: Yes. If the servers are public, it is OK. But now, what I'm trying to patch is: add an interface for users to set a proxy for zuul. | 08:27 |
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| clarkb | you can already do tgat... | 08:29 |
| clarkb | requests honors http_proxy and for ssh point zuul at a port forward or corkscrew or run with tsocks etc | 08:30 |
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| tangchen | I tried something similar before. It was proxychain. | 08:31 |
| tangchen | But it doesn't work. | 08:31 |
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| anteaya | clarkb: hi, thank you | 08:32 |
| tangchen | I'm not sure if it was because zuul is running background. | 08:32 |
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| tangchen | OK, I think it would be better to post a patch first, and then ask for review. :) | 08:34 |
| tangchen | Thank you very much. :) | 08:34 |
| clarkb | I dont think you need to patch anythibg is my point | 08:34 |
| clarkb | proxyibg is already doable in a variety of ways | 08:35 |
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| tangchen | But what if I want to construct the CI system automatically ? If I use the community version tools, and it does not support proxy, I have to maintain a tool for myself, right ? | 08:37 |
| clarkb | well you dont need to maintain the tool just use it | 08:38 |
| clarkb | and that way you can choose an appropriate proxy for your local situation. | 08:38 |
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| anteaya | tangchen: does that help? | 08:40 |
| kaisers | :q | 08:40 |
| kaisers | sry | 08:41 |
| anteaya | tangchen: clarkb reviews zuul patches, so knows far more about zuul than I | 08:41 |
| anteaya | kaisers: no problem | 08:41 |
| anteaya | did anyone else have anything they wanted to discuss today? | 08:41 |
| tangchen | Well, I mean the community may offer a tool to construct the CI system automatically. Just like os-ext-test. And it starts zuul without any tool, like corkscrew... | 08:41 |
| tangchen | So I have to do it myself. | 08:42 |
| eantyshev | Our CI occasionally reports merge failures: http://paste.openstack.org/show/406023/ | 08:42 |
| tangchen | If I can configure it in zuul, then it will be much easy to do. | 08:42 |
| lennyb_ | eantyshev: we had a discussion about it yesterday | 08:42 |
| lennyb_ | eantyshev: I will prepare a patch for third_party.html | 08:43 |
| eantyshev | lennyb_: do you mean yesterday 3rd party meeting? | 08:44 |
| lennyb_ | eantyshev: http://paste.openstack.org/show/405930 | 08:44 |
| anteaya | eantyshev: basically akerr offered a configuration that emailed the operator on a merge failure | 08:44 |
| anteaya | eantyshev: it didn't post to gerrit | 08:44 |
| anteaya | tangchen: O | 08:45 |
| anteaya | I'm not sure how much more help I can be to you, tangchen | 08:45 |
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| anteaya | I do believe that clarkb is saying you can already do what you need to do | 08:45 |
| lennyb_ | eantyshev: you can update akerr's sample to your needs, I am just evaluation this in our setup | 08:45 |
| tangchen | anteaya: That's all right. :) | 08:45 |
| tangchen | very helpful. Thanks. | 08:46 |
| eantyshev | anteaya, lennyb_: I do it already, our CI won't report merge failures, but it skips some changes | 08:46 |
| anteaya | tangchen: okay good, you are welcome to come back and share what you learned if you wish, it might help other operators | 08:46 |
| tangchen | OK :) | 08:47 |
| lennyb_ | eantyshev: you said you have a merge commenting issue | 08:47 |
| anteaya | eantyshev: can you expand on what you would like help with? | 08:48 |
| eantyshev | lennyb_: my problem seems that our CI fails to merge something that looks like is able to be merged | 08:48 |
| anteaya | have you tried manually merging the same tip, patch combination? | 08:49 |
| anteaya | looks like and does can be very different | 08:49 |
| eantyshev | anteaya: I disabled commenting merge failures, if it is what you mean | 08:49 |
| eantyshev | anteaya: no, didn't do that manually :( | 08:50 |
| anteaya | well it might not actually be able to merge | 08:50 |
| anteaya | in which case it is working as expected | 08:50 |
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| anteaya | anything more here? | 08:51 |
| kaisers | I have a q: does anybody here have exp with a manila devstack / tempest setup? | 08:51 |
| anteaya | I do not | 08:51 |
| anteaya | anyone else have experience with a manila setup? | 08:51 |
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| kaisers | ok, then i'll carry this to the manila channel afterwards.. :) | 08:52 |
| anteaya | kaisers: is there a reason why you ask? | 08:52 |
| kaisers | yep got issues with the network setup | 08:52 |
| anteaya | have a paste? | 08:52 |
| kaisers | I'm getting network errors and wondered if i missed something in the setup. Ex: ShareNetworkNotFound: Share network wrong_id could not be found | 08:52 |
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| kaisers | Not sure where 'wrong_id' is coming from. :) | 08:52 |
| anteaya | have you grepped the relevant repos? | 08:53 |
| lennyb_ | eantyshev: is it something specific? maybe you need to clean your git cache. | 08:53 |
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| kaisers | anteaya: not so far, will do that, thnx | 08:53 |
| eantyshev | even providing our CI is triggered by "Build succeeded" comments from Openstack Jenkins, we have probability that something will be merged in between | 08:53 |
| anteaya | kaisers: it is coming from manila: http://hound.openstack.org/?q=wrong_id&i=nope&files=&repos= | 08:53 |
| anteaya | eantyshev: I didn't fully understand your last sentence | 08:54 |
| kaisers | anteaya: ok, i'll dig into that | 08:54 |
| eantyshev | anteaya: lennyb_: I will follow your suggestions, thank you! Just hoped somebody faced the same problem | 08:54 |
| anteaya | eantyshev: ah okay thanks | 08:54 |
| anteaya | kaisers: thanks | 08:54 |
| anteaya | anything more anyone wants to discuss? | 08:55 |
| anteaya | any reason why I should not end the meeting? | 08:55 |
| lennyb_ | eantyshev: we had a problem, when git was constantly failing with merge failure, looked like we killed zuul in the 'bad timing'. So we had to remove all git repos that zuul caches in the server | 08:56 |
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| lennyb_ | anteaya: nothing more to discuss from me | 08:56 |
| anteaya | thanks lennyb_ | 08:56 |
| eantyshev | lennyb_: ok, seen the same, but not this time | 08:56 |
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| anteaya | anything more? | 08:57 |
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| lennyb_ | eantyshev: btw, there was some script to 'clean' git repo and removed all unused staff...maybe this will help | 08:57 |
| anteaya | lennyb_: do you have a link to the script? | 08:58 |
| anteaya | or is it a git command? | 08:58 |
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| lennyb_ | anteaya: it was a tool I think, it was discussed here a month ago | 08:59 |
| * lennyb_ trying to look for a tool | 08:59 | |
| anteaya | thanks | 08:59 |
| * anteaya waits | 08:59 | |
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| lennyb_ | anteaya: I will try to find it offline and send to you.eantishev | 09:00 |
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| eantyshev | lennyb_: Thank you! | 09:01 |
| anteaya | lennyb_: and perhaps link in a future meeting | 09:01 |
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| eantyshev | I'll wait in #openstack-infra | 09:01 |
| anteaya | thanks all for your kind attendance and participation today | 09:01 |
| anteaya | see you next week | 09:01 |
| kaisers | thnx & bye | 09:01 |
| anteaya | #endmeeting | 09:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "BP (Meeting topic: tricircle)" | 09:02 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Jul 28 09:02:00 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 09:02 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/third_party/2015/third_party.2015-07-28-08.07.html | 09:02 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/third_party/2015/third_party.2015-07-28-08.07.txt | 09:02 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/third_party/2015/third_party.2015-07-28-08.07.log.html | 09:02 |
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| Qiming | #startmeeting senlin | 13:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Jul 28 13:00:38 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is Qiming. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 13:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 13:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: senlin)" | 13:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'senlin' | 13:00 |
| Qiming | hello | 13:00 |
| haiwei | hi | 13:00 |
| Yanyan | hi | 13:00 |
| lixinhui | hello | 13:01 |
| jruano | hi | 13:01 |
| Qiming | #topic add agenda items | 13:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "add agenda items (Meeting topic: senlin)" | 13:01 | |
| Qiming | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/SenlinAgenda | 13:01 |
| Qiming | please add topics if you have things for discussion | 13:02 |
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| Qiming | let's get started | 13:03 |
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| Qiming | #topic liberty-2 milestone targets | 13:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "liberty-2 milestone targets (Meeting topic: senlin)" | 13:03 | |
| Qiming | please review the work items and see if there are things missing | 13:03 |
| Qiming | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/senlin-liberty-workitems | 13:03 |
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| Qiming | I have just removed those items we have finished | 13:04 |
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| jruano | I have a couple I am still working on. will have them in for review today | 13:04 |
| Qiming | sounds great, jruano | 13:05 |
| Yanyan | I think we have all there | 13:05 |
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| Yanyan | although some of them could be deferred to liberty-3 | 13:05 |
| haiwei | I newly assigned to heat_v1 driver, but not started yet | 13:06 |
| Qiming | okay, we may have to | 13:06 |
| Qiming | maybe it's time to work out a plan for liberty-3 | 13:06 |
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| jruano | were we going to try and have a release or wait for lib 3? | 13:06 |
| Yanyan | yep | 13:07 |
| Qiming | jruano, we may need to wait for liberty 3 | 13:07 |
| Qiming | there are quite some known defects to be ironed out | 13:07 |
| jruano | that makes sense. stable is best :) | 13:08 |
| Yanyan | yes | 13:08 |
| Qiming | besides that, we have some high priority todos here: http://git.openstack.org/cgit/stackforge/senlin/tree/TODO.rst | 13:08 |
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| Qiming | some of the issues have been solved | 13:09 |
| Qiming | need an update on that to find out what are left | 13:09 |
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| jruano | ah yes, looking it over now | 13:10 |
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| Qiming | basically, for lib-3, we will need to have the engine/action/event modules stable | 13:10 |
| Qiming | the nova server and heat stack profile completely debugged | 13:10 |
| Yanyan | Qiming, I think maybe we should also implement a basic placement policy which provides cross-region node creation | 13:11 |
| Qiming | yes, please add that to the TODO.rst file | 13:11 |
| Yanyan | maybe also cross-az/cloud | 13:11 |
| Yanyan | ok | 13:11 |
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| Qiming | also we will need some funtional tests | 13:11 |
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| Qiming | we will aslo need to promote some middle-priority ones to high-priority | 13:12 |
| Yanyan | yes, and I think the work item of workflow cleasing should be replaced by adding functional test | 13:12 |
| Yanyan | ok | 13:13 |
| Qiming | sounds reasonable | 13:13 |
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| Qiming | I'm reading the FEATURES.rst file: http://git.openstack.org/cgit/stackforge/senlin/tree/FEATURES.rst | 13:13 |
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| jruano | a lot of work :) | 13:14 |
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| Qiming | most of the items in FEATURES.rst are nice-to-have kind of features | 13:14 |
| Qiming | each of them would need some time for design, some more time for implement and testing | 13:15 |
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| Qiming | yip, jruano | 13:15 |
| Qiming | it would be a long journey to make things realy useful | 13:15 |
| Qiming | :) | 13:15 |
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| jruano | maybe if we can just identify any that need to be a part of lib 3, that would be helpful | 13:15 |
| Qiming | agreed | 13:15 |
| lixinhui | I think the functional test and placement policy is the most important | 13:16 |
| lixinhui | may help some if time permits | 13:16 |
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| Qiming | exception handling | 13:17 |
| haiwei | in the Tokyo summit, will be a demo in our presentation? | 13:17 |
| Yanyan | right | 13:17 |
| Qiming | let's get it done right, once for all | 13:17 |
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| Yanyan | I think we may want to complete the basic framework of exception handling | 13:17 |
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| Qiming | haiwei, jruano and some university students are working on that | 13:18 |
| Yanyan | cool | 13:18 |
| Qiming | hopefully we can give a live demo of something really useful | 13:18 |
| Yanyan | that will be very nice :) | 13:18 |
| haiwei | yes | 13:18 |
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| Qiming | let's spend some time prioritizing the TODO items for liberty-3 | 13:19 |
| Qiming | #action Qiming to create a etherpad for everyone to prioritize L3 items | 13:20 |
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| Qiming | let's move on | 13:20 |
| Qiming | #topic update on complex (scaling) policy and triggers | 13:20 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "update on complex (scaling) policy and triggers (Meeting topic: senlin)" | 13:20 | |
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| Qiming | well, I didn't expect it to be such a painful process | 13:20 |
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| Qiming | I have spent almost 2 weeks on this | 13:21 |
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| Qiming | the original idea was to compile all information into a single scaling policy | 13:21 |
| Yanyan | :) more complicated than we imagined before | 13:21 |
| Qiming | in that policy, you will specify the properties for the triggers (alarm, queue notification), schedule (when to enable/disable) and handlers (different actions) | 13:22 |
| Qiming | when writing the spec, I found it too (unnecessarily) complicated to squeeze everything into a single YAML | 13:23 |
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| Qiming | the second issue is that it makes the policy inflexible: any single property change necessitates a new policy spec | 13:24 |
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| Qiming | the third issue is that it is does not conform to our original design of "policy", which was meant to be some rules that will be checked when actions are about to take place | 13:25 |
| Qiming | after some brainstorming with Yanyan, I have now switched to a different approach | 13:25 |
| Qiming | we abstract external signals using a concept "Trigger" | 13:26 |
| Qiming | we create/update/delete it as a separate resource in Senlin | 13:26 |
| Qiming | we link Triggers to webhooks or other "endpoints" to build an auto-scaling solution | 13:27 |
| Qiming | we can also link Triggers to webhooks or other receiving points to build HA solution | 13:27 |
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| Qiming | so ... basically, we are again developing some primitives, leaving more complicated use cases to users | 13:28 |
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| Qiming | I'd like to hear your comments on this | 13:28 |
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| jruano | sounds almost like you are building a workflow using triggers? | 13:29 |
| Qiming | users will build them or we can help build such kind of a workflow | 13:29 |
| Qiming | some sample triggers are here for review/comments: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/206526/ | 13:29 |
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| Qiming | A patch for modeling various ceilometer alarm types is here: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/206527/ | 13:30 |
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| Qiming | take ceilometer alarms as an example, there are too many variants to be incorporated into a single policy | 13:31 |
| Qiming | these alarms can be used for whatever use cases | 13:32 |
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| Qiming | comments? | 13:34 |
| Qiming | questions? | 13:34 |
| Qiming | or you would like to review the patchs, ;) | 13:34 |
| Yanyan | so we hope to keep the flexibility by just providing primitives | 13:34 |
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| lixinhui | I will try this in next few days for demo purpose | 13:34 |
| Yanyan | of course this will also reduce the complication | 13:34 |
| Qiming | lixinhui, it is not working yet | 13:34 |
| lixinhui | ... | 13:35 |
| Qiming | it is just a design by code | 13:35 |
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| jruano | i think its a good approach. let the user design the workflow using these base alarms | 13:35 |
| Yanyan | will give feedback about the patch ASAP | 13:35 |
| Qiming | jruano, if needed, we can provide some sample "workflows" to get autoscaling up | 13:36 |
| jruano | yep, some "templates" | 13:36 |
| Qiming | right | 13:36 |
| Qiming | #topic clusters of containers | 13:37 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "clusters of containers (Meeting topic: senlin)" | 13:37 | |
| Qiming | jruano, how are things going on there? | 13:37 |
| jruano | i spent some time working on this. i have coreos running within openstack | 13:37 |
| jruano | pretty straightforward | 13:37 |
| jruano | docker is natively supported within coreos, so that should be relatively easy | 13:38 |
| Qiming | with VM clusters created? | 13:38 |
| jruano | kubernetes is more challenging under coreos | 13:38 |
| Qiming | yep | 13:38 |
| jruano | not yet... i am still debugging a little within magnum | 13:38 |
| Qiming | cool, pls keep the team posted | 13:39 |
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| jruano | running into some issues creating docker bays within magnum, so this is what i am working on now | 13:39 |
| Qiming | I traveled to Shanghai last weekend to meet some students from Tongji University | 13:39 |
| Qiming | we have a SUR project with them | 13:39 |
| jruano | i will have more information on this shortly | 13:39 |
| Qiming | they are working on this container cluster topic as well | 13:40 |
| Qiming | they are moving pretty slow | 13:40 |
| Qiming | just get themselves familiarized with Magnum and Senlin | 13:40 |
| Qiming | jruano, if you have some ideas for experimentation, they are your interns | 13:41 |
| Qiming | :) | 13:41 |
| jruano | lol, np | 13:41 |
| jruano | i will write up some notes to share | 13:41 |
| Qiming | that would be cool | 13:42 |
| Qiming | some of the students are already trying to modify Magnum to call Senlin APIs | 13:42 |
| Qiming | hope we can get some POCs soon | 13:43 |
| jruano | ah ok... that is a little putting the cart before the horse, but thats fine | 13:43 |
| Qiming | anyway, they will need to understand Senlin APIs first | 13:44 |
| Qiming | #topic open discussions | 13:45 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open discussions (Meeting topic: senlin)" | 13:45 | |
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| lixinhui | I wanna check if cluster-polict-list problems fixed or not | 13:45 |
| Qiming | lixinhui, it is fixed | 13:45 |
| lixinhui | please point me to the patch, thanks | 13:46 |
| Qiming | it is an issue related to environment configuration | 13:46 |
| Qiming | seems we should change this line to "project:%(project)s": http://git.openstack.org/cgit/stackforge/senlin/tree/etc/senlin/policy.json#n3 | 13:47 |
| Qiming | we don't have project_id in the context structure | 13:47 |
| Qiming | need to dig more on the impact on other code | 13:48 |
| Yanyan | yes | 13:48 |
| Yanyan | otherwise, that rule will not take effect | 13:48 |
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| Qiming | right, you can do almost nothing if the project doesn't match | 13:49 |
| Yanyan | yes | 13:49 |
| Qiming | any outstanding issues met? | 13:49 |
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| Qiming | jruano, we may need to work out a draft design for container clusters | 13:50 |
| jruano | i think so | 13:50 |
| Qiming | a design that will be applicable to both docker and k8s | 13:51 |
| jruano | let me compile some notes as a starting point | 13:51 |
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| Qiming | it is perfectly okay if we only have docker clusters implemented by l3 | 13:51 |
| Yanyan | cool, I think that will help all of us to understand it more clearly | 13:51 |
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| Qiming | anything else? | 13:52 |
| jruano | yes... the metadata for k8s is significant | 13:52 |
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| Yanyan | nope from me | 13:52 |
| haiwei | nothing for me | 13:53 |
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| Qiming | lixinhui, still around? | 13:53 |
| lixinhui | yes | 13:53 |
| lixinhui | nothing except the policy list | 13:54 |
| Qiming | since you are more interested into placement policy, could you help take a look at the cross-region implementation in heat? | 13:54 |
| lixinhui | yes, I am looking at it | 13:54 |
| Qiming | we need to move that to Senlin -- a concensus from heat team back in Vancouver | 13:54 |
| Qiming | cool | 13:54 |
| Yanyan | and I just proposed a patch to add this work item, you can add you name behind it if it's ok for you :) | 13:54 |
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| Qiming | shout out if you need help | 13:55 |
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| lixinhui | definitly, I will | 13:55 |
| Qiming | last call | 13:55 |
| jruano | nothing else from me | 13:55 |
| Qiming | 4 | 13:55 |
| Qiming | 3 | 13:55 |
| Qiming | #endmeeting | 13:56 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "BP (Meeting topic: tricircle)" | 13:56 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Jul 28 13:56:01 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 13:56 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/senlin/2015/senlin.2015-07-28-13.00.html | 13:56 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/senlin/2015/senlin.2015-07-28-13.00.txt | 13:56 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/senlin/2015/senlin.2015-07-28-13.00.log.html | 13:56 |
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| mestery | hi | 13:59 |
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| annp | hi | 13:59 |
| rkukura | hi | 13:59 |
| jschwarz | hi | 13:59 |
| hoangcx | Hi all | 13:59 |
| yushiro | Hi! | 13:59 |
| regXboi | moo | 13:59 |
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| amotoki | hi | 14:00 |
| hichihara | hi | 14:00 |
| miyagishi_t | hi | 14:00 |
| scheuran | hi | 14:00 |
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| mestery | OK, lets get started, we have a packed agenda today | 14:00 |
| mestery | #startmeeting networking | 14:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Jul 28 14:01:01 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is mestery. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 14:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 14:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: networking)" | 14:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'networking' | 14:01 |
| mestery | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Network/Meetings Agenda | 14:01 |
| mestery | #topic Announcements | 14:01 |
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| *** openstack changes topic to "Announcements (Meeting topic: networking)" | 14:01 | |
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| mestery | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Liberty_Release_Schedule Liberty Release Schedule | 14:01 |
| mestery | #info Liberty-2 will be released this week | 14:01 |
| mestery | Unless there is a bug blocking this, we'll likely cut it later today or tomorrow. | 14:01 |
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| mestery | #info The DVR Job is now voting | 14:02 |
| mestery | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/180230/15 | 14:02 |
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| mestery | Hopefully this will help us grind out any additional issues that are lurking in DVR. | 14:02 |
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| mestery | Thanks to Swami for driving this and to ihrachyshka for his work to remove the job from stable branches | 14:02 |
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| mestery | #info Voting for the Tokyo Conference is open now | 14:03 |
| mestery | #link https://www.openstack.org/summit/tokyo-2015/vote-for-speakers | 14:03 |
| mestery | Go forth and vote | 14:03 |
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| ihrachyshka | I would be glad if there is no work to remove each new voting job from stable... | 14:03 |
| mestery | ihrachyshka: You and me both | 14:03 |
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| anteaya | how do you concieve of that happening? | 14:03 |
| jroll | \o | 14:04 |
| mestery | We stabilize something during a cycle and make any new job voting during that cycle. | 14:04 |
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| anteaya | ah I'm all for stablity | 14:04 |
| ihrachyshka | anteaya, nothing except review attention and maybe heads-up for potentially affected parties. | 14:04 |
| anteaya | okay thanks | 14:04 |
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| mestery | #info For networking sub-projects (networking-foo), please remember to follow code merge requirements (e.g. 2 +2 votes) | 14:05 |
| mestery | #link http://docs.openstack.org/infra/manual/developers.html#code-review | 14:05 |
| mestery | If you're in the Neutron Stadium, you need to be following those guidelines | 14:06 |
| mestery | If you have questions, please reach out to me, anteaya, ihrachyshka or anyone else who has been merging code for a while for help | 14:06 |
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| mestery | Any other announcements for the team from anyone else before we move along? | 14:06 |
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| mestery | #topic Liberty-3 and our giant backlog of things to merge | 14:08 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Liberty-3 and our giant backlog of things to merge (Meeting topic: networking)" | 14:08 | |
| mestery | #link https://launchpad.net/neutron/+milestone/liberty-3 | 14:08 |
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| mestery | As is typically the case, we have a lot of things to merge in Liberty-3. | 14:08 |
| mestery | I would strongly, highly beg of reviewers to focus on things that are on that list | 14:09 |
| mestery | Instead of just opening gerrit and reviewing what's at the top | 14:09 |
| mestery | There are many things in there that need some review love and the earlier we can merge many of these, the better | 14:09 |
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| * HenryG thought we no longer had deadlines ;) | 14:10 | |
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| * mestery slaps HenryG | 14:10 | |
| ihrachyshka | (I don't see qos there at all) | 14:10 |
| mestery | #action ihrachyshka to add QoS LP BPs to Liberty-3 milestone | 14:10 |
| mestery | :) | 14:10 |
| ihrachyshka | ouch :) | 14:10 |
| mestery | lol | 14:10 |
| mlavalle | mestery: what is L3 date? | 14:10 |
| ihrachyshka | slapping party! | 14:10 |
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| neiljerram | Any prioritization between bugs and non-bugs? | 14:11 |
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| mestery | mlavalle: Liberty-3 date is week of August 31 | 14:11 |
| mestery | That's also FF | 14:11 |
| mestery | neiljerram: I'd encourage reviewing of critical and high priority bugs in parallel with those specs | 14:11 |
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| mestery | As you can see, Liberty-3 is going to drop on us very fast. :) | 14:12 |
| mestery | Any other questions on Liberty-3? | 14:12 |
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| HenryG | I wonder if all vendors will get their code out in time? | 14:12 |
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| * regXboi grabs the popcorn and program | 14:12 | |
| mestery | HenryG: They won't | 14:12 |
| neiljerram | HenryG: what does that refer to? | 14:13 |
| mestery | HenryG: You, me and armax need to send an email to the ML on that | 14:13 |
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| mestery | #action mestery HenryG and armax to email list about the impending purge of drivers from neutron during mitaki | 14:13 |
| HenryG | OK, and should we relax the wording in the contrib devref? | 14:13 |
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| mestery | HenryG: If you submit a patch, add me there and I'll reveiw :) | 14:13 |
| HenryG | neiljerram: http://docs.openstack.org/developer/neutron/devref/contribute.html | 14:14 |
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| amotoki | I prepared the decomp for my one and the good news is it was easy :-) | 14:14 |
| mestery | amotoki: Nice! :) | 14:14 |
| mestery | Any other Liberty-3 questions from folks before we move on? | 14:14 |
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| mestery | #topic Where should Macvtap agent land | 14:15 |
| mestery | scheuran: You're up! :) | 14:15 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Where should Macvtap agent land (Meeting topic: networking)" | 14:15 | |
| mestery | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/195907/ | 14:15 |
| scheuran | thanks | 14:15 |
| mestery | That's the review in question for folks who are not following along here | 14:15 |
| scheuran | The plan is to have a ml2 driver & l2 agent for supporting macvtap guest attachments (independent form sriov) | 14:16 |
| mestery | scheuran: Can you summarize for the team? | 14:16 |
| scheuran | The big question is, where such code should land | 14:16 |
| scheuran | The agent reuses a lot of code of the linuxbridge agent - especially the main loop, mechanism for detecting pluged tap (macvtap) devices. | 14:16 |
| scheuran | and so on | 14:16 |
| mestery | scheuran: So one option is to add the code into the existing LB agent, right? | 14:16 |
| scheuran | right | 14:16 |
| mestery | sc68cal: ^^^ | 14:16 |
| mestery | sc68cal: Bringing you in because this is LB related | 14:16 |
| mestery | scheuran: If you do that, you don't need a repo and you just do it in-tree. | 14:17 |
| scheuran | right | 14:17 |
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| * sc68cal looks | 14:17 | |
| neiljerram | In case it helps: this sounds similar to my current situation with the DHCP agent | 14:17 |
| ihrachyshka | extension drivers for agents? in qos, we have that: http://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack/neutron/tree/neutron/agent/l2/extensions?h=feature/qos | 14:17 |
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| scheuran | but that would mean extracting new superclasses and moving methods up and down between themn | 14:17 |
| ihrachyshka | not sure whether fully applicable | 14:17 |
| scheuran | so a larger restructuring | 14:17 |
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| amuller | the LB agent has no tests, a "large restructuring" scares me | 14:18 |
| ihrachyshka | it's several lines in your base agent (lb) and then you are free to do whatever you want with port updates in your extension. | 14:18 |
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| mestery | ihrachyshka: That sounds like the best option forward. | 14:18 |
| mestery | amuller: Dually noted on the LB testing situation :) | 14:18 |
| ihrachyshka | it obviously depends on whether you replace or extend the agent. | 14:18 |
| mestery | scheuran: So, it sounds like perhaps you should work offline to understand the approach ihrachyshka is extending to you here. | 14:19 |
| mestery | Because that sounds like it may be the best way forward | 14:19 |
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| scheuran | ok, I'll talk to ihrachyshka and having a look at his approach | 14:19 |
| sc68cal | amuller: that's not true | 14:19 |
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| amuller | sc68cal: oh? | 14:20 |
| sc68cal | amuller: https://github.com/openstack/neutron/blob/master/neutron/tests/unit/plugins/ml2/drivers/linuxbridge/agent/test_linuxbridge_neutron_agent.py | 14:20 |
| mestery | amuller sc68cal: Shall we take the LB test situation to #openstack-neutron post meeting? | 14:20 |
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| mestery | I'd hate to bog down the already packed meeting with that here, because I sense it could go south quickly. | 14:21 |
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| mestery | Fair? | 14:21 |
| amuller | sure | 14:21 |
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| mestery | Cool :) | 14:21 |
| mestery | scheuran: So, you have what you need to move forward here? | 14:21 |
| mestery | scheuran: And if so, you can mark your governance patch as WIP for now and reference the meeting once it's on eavesdrop (or I can do that for you post meeting too) | 14:21 |
| scheuran | yes, I'll talk to ihrachyshka and then I'll come back to you | 14:22 |
| scheuran | ok | 14:22 |
| mestery | Great! Thanks scheuran and ihrachyshka. | 14:22 |
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| mestery | Next up on our weekly smorgasboard of an agenda | 14:22 |
| mestery | #topic Ironic Provider Networks | 14:23 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Ironic Provider Networks (Meeting topic: networking)" | 14:23 | |
| mestery | I am not sure who added this to the agenda | 14:23 |
| mestery | Does anyone want to step forward to claim their topic? | 14:23 |
| mestery | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/152703/ | 14:23 |
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| mestery | Oh wait, now I recall! | 14:23 |
| mestery | This was Josh | 14:23 |
| mestery | From the nova mid-cycle last week | 14:23 |
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| mestery | I don't recall his IRC handle though .... | 14:23 |
| sc68cal | let's shelve it and move on - i'll ping the ironic channel | 14:24 |
| sc68cal | if they get someone to come in before end of meeting we'll pull it back in | 14:24 |
| jroll | mestery: hi | 14:24 |
| jroll | jim, not josh | 14:24 |
| mestery | jroll: Sorry about that :) | 14:24 |
| jroll | no worries | 14:24 |
| jroll | so! | 14:25 |
| mestery | jroll: OK, so lets get everyone up to speed | 14:25 |
| med_ | JoshNang ping | 14:25 |
| jroll | at the midcycle, and on the list, we basically decided that neutron's provider network plugin thing should indicate if the vlan should be passed to the host | 14:25 |
| jroll | but never decided how that should actually work | 14:25 |
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| * med_ should have listened in on that discussion... | 14:26 | |
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| mestery | jroll: I'm still digesting the patch in question a bit, by chance do you also have a link to the ML discussion? | 14:27 |
| sc68cal | jroll: that starts to sound like vlan transparent to me - http://specs.openstack.org/openstack/neutron-specs/specs/kilo/nfv-vlan-trunks.html | 14:27 |
| jroll | so I'm thinking only the ML2 mechanism can really know | 14:27 |
| jroll | mestery: http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2015-July/069783.html | 14:27 |
| mestery | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2015-July/069783.html | 14:28 |
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| mestery | Thanks jroll | 14:28 |
| mestery | sc68cal: Elaborate further please :) | 14:28 |
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| jroll | sc68cal: yeah, it sounds like it... there are ML2 (or maybe not ml2?) plugins that require this today | 14:28 |
| jroll | https://github.com/rackerlabs/ironic-neutron-plugin | 14:28 |
| jroll | so maybe we do want to wait for that, maybe we don't, I'm not entirely sure | 14:29 |
| mestery | sc68cal: I see it now, NM | 14:29 |
| sc68cal | mestery: :) | 14:29 |
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| mestery | jroll: The VLAN transperency was released as a part of Kilo already, so it's there, the issue is what driver/plugin you want supports how you want to use it I guess | 14:29 |
| neiljerram | I'm aware of the ML controversy on this - but no idea as yet about what _this_ meeting is being asked to decide or discuss | 14:29 |
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| jroll | mestery: oh, I thought this was a liberty thing | 14:30 |
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| jroll | neiljerram: so as someone who uses that nova patch and the above neutron plugin in production today, I would like to upstream this work | 14:30 |
| mestery | jroll: Nope, it's already in Kilo, made it at the very end | 14:30 |
| amuller | jroll: I wish http://specs.openstack.org/openstack/nova-specs/specs/liberty/approved/metadata-service-network-info.html explained the use case better, why an Ironic host needs this information in the first place and what does it want to do with it | 14:30 |
| jroll | neiljerram: and I don't know a ton about neutron and so trying to figure out the best way to do this. | 14:30 |
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| jroll | amuller: it's not just ironic hosts that might use this, it's really any instance in a dhcp-less context | 14:31 |
| mestery | jroll: You just want to know the VLAN tag so you can set the guest/host up to use that tag, right? | 14:31 |
| jroll | correct. | 14:31 |
| neiljerram | jroll: OK, cool. The discussion appeared quite contentious to me, so hopefully someone can see a way to bring the sides together... | 14:32 |
| mestery | So, that's what VLAN transparency was for :) | 14:32 |
| jroll | welp | 14:32 |
| jroll | mestery: this is the first time I'm seeing this | 14:32 |
| mestery | I think there mayb e some gaps here | 14:32 |
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| jroll | I'll have to look at it, I suppose | 14:32 |
| mestery | I think what you need is in addition to the indication you can handle passing VLAN traffic you want the actual tag as well | 14:32 |
| mestery | jroll: Yes, please :) | 14:33 |
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| jroll | mestery: oh, right, the instance needs to know the vlan to tag | 14:33 |
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| jroll | I think it's more like the vlan-aware-vms spec | 14:34 |
| jroll | which is why I was thinking liberty. | 14:34 |
| mestery | jroll: o_O | 14:34 |
| mestery | Yes, I think a bit like that too | 14:34 |
| mestery | jroll: OK, let me try and see where things are here and work with you on this to see what we can do | 14:34 |
| amotoki | jroll: does such insntace want to send multiple networks based on vlan tags? | 14:34 |
| mestery | This reminds me I need to try and understand where the vlan-aware-vms work is .... | 14:34 |
| jroll | amotoki: sometimes :) | 14:34 |
| amuller | there's been no progress on vlan aware VMs AFAIK since the spec was merged (So, no code proposed), it's pretty much guaranteed to miss L I think at this point | 14:35 |
| amotoki | jroll: if so, it looks like vlan-aware-vms work as mestery said. | 14:35 |
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| sc68cal | sounds like we have at least a way forward though | 14:35 |
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| mestery | ++ | 14:35 |
| mestery | amuller: I agree, and to be honest, it was questionable even with code already proposed, so it's not looking good. | 14:36 |
| mestery | #action mestery to try and dig out some status on the vlan-aware-vms spec | 14:36 |
| mestery | jroll: We'll sort this and get back to you soon, sound good? | 14:36 |
| amuller | mestery: exactly, even with a full set of patches proposed today it'll probably not make it | 14:36 |
| jroll | mestery: cool, thank you sir | 14:36 |
| sc68cal | mestery: loop me in since I suggested it too | 14:37 |
| mestery | amuller: I like to think of myself as an optimist against a constant backlog of challenges, so lets see. :) | 14:37 |
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| mestery | sc68cal: ++ | 14:37 |
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| mestery | OK, lets move on to the next topic with 23 minutes left | 14:37 |
| mestery | #topic Neutron Mitaki mid-cycle | 14:37 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Neutron Mitaki mid-cycle (Meeting topic: networking)" | 14:37 | |
| mestery | This has come up recently | 14:37 |
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| mestery | From a few folks | 14:37 |
| mestery | The reason for discussion this now is that a plan has been floated to have this in Galway, Ireland | 14:38 |
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| mestery | I wanted input from everyone on a few things: | 14:38 |
| amotoki | not Mtaki but Mitaka (which ends with "a") | 14:38 |
| mestery | 1) Is Galway ok? | 14:38 |
| hichihara | Mitaki -> Mitaka? : ) | 14:38 |
| mestery | 2) Do we even need a mid-cycle still? | 14:38 |
| mestery | hichihara amotoki: Thank you for your correction :) | 14:38 |
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| ihrachyshka | mestery, at least for drinking Irish beer, so yes | 14:38 |
| mestery | ihrachyshka: lol :) | 14:39 |
| regXboi | mestery: going forward, I believe need to figure out a way to make mid-cycles more remote friendly | 14:39 |
| neiljerram | 1) It's nice and close to me; 2) Don't know as I haven't been to one yet, but would like to. | 14:39 |
| regXboi | ihrachyshka: +1 many times | 14:39 |
| sc68cal | i like ireland :) | 14:39 |
| mestery | regXboi: Exactly my point! If we did a virtual sprint, it may make it better for everyone, but less personal for those who attend ... in person. | 14:39 |
| ihrachyshka | there are better chance I join that one; that said, those gatherings are sometimes painful for outsiders. | 14:39 |
| john-davidge | mestery: What dates are being considered for the mid-cylcle? | 14:40 |
| mestery | john-davidge: We're looking at either early December, or early January | 14:40 |
| regXboi | john-davidge brings up a great point | 14:40 |
| mestery | Which is another point. | 14:40 |
| xgerman | it will be cold in Ireland that time! | 14:40 |
| mestery | I guess I want the team to really think about whether or not we want to keep doing mid-cycles | 14:40 |
| mestery | Before we move forward with planning the next one. | 14:40 |
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| neiljerram | Early Jan would be better for me | 14:40 |
| amuller | Ireland in January, fantastic | 14:41 |
| mestery | amuller: lol ;) | 14:41 |
| regXboi | amuller: more reason to hold the midcycle in a pub | 14:41 |
| mestery | If someone can get us a place in Cuba in January, I'm all for that too. | 14:41 |
| neiljerram | How many people typically attend? | 14:41 |
| mestery | neiljerram: 20-30 | 14:41 |
| john-davidge | I’ve personally never attended a mid-cycle as they’ve been too far away (and ireland will be as well), but I can see the value. I feel like the Liberty mid-cycle was a bit soon after the summit though | 14:42 |
| mestery | We've made our mid-cycles coding sprints | 14:42 |
| ihrachyshka | for my taste, we are good to keep everyone on the same level of participation, which suggests online is fine. summits are already quite frequent to get together | 14:42 |
| mestery | ihrachyshka: Exactly my thinking too | 14:42 |
| ihrachyshka | (but I haven't been to any) | 14:42 |
| neiljerram | Interesting, sounds like that's enough to be considered a strategic part of the dev cycle - as opposed to mostly a social thing | 14:42 |
| mestery | My otehr suggestion is to try a 3 day virtual-sprint for Mitaka | 14:42 |
| mestery | And see how that goes | 14:42 |
| mestery | neiljerram: Actually, it's a coding sprint, nothing strategic | 14:43 |
| mestery | We've worked hard to make it only a coding sprint | 14:43 |
| mestery | So attendance not required | 14:43 |
| regXboi | mestery: hmm... could we try the virt sprint first and if that doesn't work, fall back to the mid-cycle coding sprint? | 14:43 |
| mestery | There is too much travel already | 14:43 |
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| neiljerram | Ah, OK. | 14:43 |
| mestery | regXboi: We'd lose all the benefits of skipping the mid-cycle as we'd have to plan it, but may be worth thinking about | 14:43 |
| mlavalle | mestery: let's ask Fidel | 14:43 |
| amuller | a virtual-only coding sprint would be a really interesting experiment, like Ihar and Kyle said, travelling twice a year to the summits is already a lot | 14:43 |
| mestery | mlavalle: lol :) | 14:43 |
| mestery | amuller: ++ | 14:43 |
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| neiljerram | In that case, sounds like it would be very interesting to see if can get the same group dynamic virtually | 14:43 |
| regXboi | amuller: ++ | 14:43 |
| mestery | I think getting the team used to collaborating more on IRC and online woudl be a good move personally | 14:44 |
| mestery | OK | 14:44 |
| regXboi | mestery: are you thinking a 3 day coding sprint or a 72 hour coding sprint? | 14:44 |
| mestery | I'll email the ML to get broader participation from folks not at this meeting | 14:44 |
| regXboi | i.e. run the coding sprint round the globe | 14:44 |
| mestery | regXboi: 72 hours :P | 14:44 |
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| mestery | #action mestery to solicit input from everyone on the Neutron mid-cycle coding sprint from the ML | 14:44 |
| regXboi | mestery: got it | 14:45 |
| mestery | Anything else on the mid-cycle from anyone? | 14:45 |
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| HenryG | We could also have per-feature sprints? | 14:45 |
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| mestery | HenryG: If they're virtual, yes. In person, no way :) | 14:45 |
| ihrachyshka | hemna, we did have for qos, it was a nice one | 14:45 |
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| HenryG | yep, virtual is what I meant. | 14:45 |
| mestery | ihrachyshka: QoS was special | 14:46 |
| mestery | I'd like to keep feature specific things virtual | 14:46 |
| mestery | Or this will get out of hand really quickly | 14:46 |
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| regXboi | it isn't aleady? | 14:46 |
| mestery | OK, I have 2 more items to cover (including neiljerram's work), so lets move on. | 14:46 |
| mestery | #topic Concrete plan to merge back pecan and QoS work | 14:46 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Concrete plan to merge back pecan and QoS work (Meeting topic: networking)" | 14:46 | |
| mestery | I'm time-boxing this for 4 minutes | 14:46 |
| mestery | :) | 14:46 |
| sc68cal | qos was in person though, remote was tough tz | 14:46 |
| mestery | ihrachyshka blogan kevinbenton: We need a plan to bring these back | 14:46 |
| mestery | And as soon as possible. | 14:47 |
| mestery | I think QoS is more ready than pecan at this point | 14:47 |
| mestery | So I propose we bring back QoS first, followed by pecan. | 14:47 |
| mestery | Thoughts? | 14:47 |
| ihrachyshka | mestery, well, we collecting pieces, but we are not exactly there yet. | 14:47 |
| ihrachyshka | as for order, yay for that | 14:47 |
| mestery | cool | 14:47 |
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| ihrachyshka | we work hard to get there sometime next week though | 14:47 |
| mestery | #info QoS to merge back to master first, followed by pecan | 14:47 |
| ihrachyshka | how bad is pecan? | 14:48 |
| mestery | ihrachyshka: Lets keep this on the agenda for Monday next week | 14:48 |
| mestery | ihrachyshka: It just needs reviews :( | 14:48 |
| ihrachyshka | old story | 14:48 |
| ryanpetrello | can somebody point me at the pecan review(s)? | 14:48 |
| mestery | yes | 14:48 |
| ryanpetrello | I've held off while tests stabilized | 14:48 |
| mestery | ryanpetrello: https://review.openstack.org/#/q/project:openstack/neutron+branch:feature/pecan+status:open,n,z | 14:48 |
| mestery | :) | 14:48 |
| ryanpetrello | but I'd like to take another look | 14:48 |
| ryanpetrello | thanks! | 14:48 |
| mestery | ryanpetrello: Your reviews there would be AWESOME! Thanks! | 14:48 |
| ryanpetrello | k, I'll take a look over this today | 14:49 |
| mestery | thanks! | 14:49 |
| regXboi | mestery: I'll put it on my list to look tomorrow am | 14:49 |
| mestery | OK | 14:49 |
| mestery | regXboi: Thanks! | 14:49 |
| mestery | Lets move on to the last item | 14:49 |
| mestery | #topic neiljerram's routed network and DHCP changes | 14:49 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "neiljerram's routed network and DHCP changes (Meeting topic: networking)" | 14:49 | |
| mestery | neiljerram: The floor is yours for 10 minutes ;) | 14:49 |
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| neiljerram | Thanks - https://review.openstack.org/198439 | 14:49 |
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| mestery | #link https://review.openstack.org/198439 | 14:50 |
| neiljerram | OK, so on the one hand there's lots of great discussion about how best to model routed networking | 14:50 |
| neiljerram | Thanks to everyone participating there - in review and ML threads. | 14:50 |
| neiljerram | It's looking, though, that that will take lots more time to think through. | 14:51 |
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| neiljerram | Somewhat independently, though, there's a set of DHCP agent changes that I've put up for review, and I'll really like to get a general feeling on those. | 14:51 |
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| regXboi | neiljerram: do these DHCP agents changes stand independently of the spec? | 14:52 |
| sc68cal | link? | 14:52 |
| neiljerram | https://review.openstack.org/206078, plus its 3 prerequisites | 14:52 |
| mestery | #link https://review.openstack.org/206078 | 14:52 |
| mestery | neiljerram: Same question as regXboi | 14:52 |
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| neiljerram | Technically yes - because variation in the DHCP agent is driven by an interface_driver config | 14:52 |
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| neiljerram | Long term, I wonder if that's correct - seems that maybe it should be dynamic based on network_type. But for now we have interface_driver. | 14:53 |
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| mestery | neiljerram: I think you've stumbled into a quagmire here, as this also relates to the work that carl_baldwin is doing, as you know :) | 14:54 |
| neiljerram | Therefore, given a few meaningful customization points in the DHCP agent, I can write a custom interface_driver that uses a certain combination of those to produce the behaviour that I'm looking for. | 14:54 |
| mestery | At this point in the cycle, it's looking like this may end up being shelved for Mitaka, but lets see | 14:54 |
| neiljerram | mestery: Oh, absolutely, yes. But that's all on the modelling side, which I think can be separated from the DHCP agent | 14:54 |
| mestery | neiljerram: The DHCP changes may end up being ok, but lets see what happens during review | 14:54 |
| mestery | neiljerram: Exactly, we're on the same page :) | 14:55 |
| amotoki | I think an interface driver should represent how to connect to a network and it should not represent a different behavior.... | 14:55 |
| neiljerram | Cool, thanks. | 14:55 |
| neiljerram | The big practical benefit, for my project, if we could get the DHCP changes agreed, would be working with vanilla upstream Neutron... | 14:55 |
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| mestery | neiljerram: Yup, agreed, and I think that helps you out, so lets see if we can figure those out. | 14:56 |
| mestery | :) | 14:56 |
| neiljerram | I have a lot of detail work to do on the DHCP reviews, but it's nice to have a somewhat positive feeling, so thanks. | 14:56 |
| mestery | I encourage folks to review neiljerram's patches he posted above | 14:56 |
| mestery | neiljerram: Absolutely :) | 14:56 |
| mestery | OK | 14:56 |
| mestery | 3 minutes or so left | 14:56 |
| neiljerram | I'm done - thanks for attention! | 14:56 |
| mestery | #topic Open Discussion | 14:56 |
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| *** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: networking)" | 14:56 | |
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| mestery | Just one final note to encourage reveiws of Liberty-3 specs alongside Critical/High priority bugs | 14:57 |
| adreznec | We have a neutron ml2 agent for powervm out in stackforge (https://github.com/stackforge/neutron-powervm). At the nova mid-cycle meetup it was brought up that we should look at moving it under openstack/networking-powervm to fit the new third-party drivers decomp model. How should we handle proposing the change? Are there steps beyond the required changes to governance, project-config, and working with the infra team on the | 14:57 |
| adreznec | rename we should be aware of? | 14:57 |
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| mestery | HenryG: Do you have a link for adreznec off hand? | 14:57 |
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| mestery | adreznec: You basically need to propose a project-config change to move it to openstack namespace, and make that dependent on a governance change adding it to the lsit of neutron repos | 14:58 |
| mestery | Add me as a reviewer to both of those and I'll ACK them. | 14:58 |
| mestery | It's that simple :) | 14:58 |
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| adreznec | mestery: awesome, I have the patches already written up. Just wanted to make sure I brought it up here first. I'll get those proposed here today | 14:58 |
| miyagishi_t | kevinbenton: I have a question about implementation plan of Distributed SNAT. Could you talk after the meeting? | 14:59 |
| yushiro | mestery, thank you for your great ACK and review for my ML2 plugin patch. | 14:59 |
| mestery | adreznec: Awesome! | 14:59 |
| john-davidge | mestery: Would love to see #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/158697 merge soon. Recent reviews have been largely positive and/or nit-picking. Getting this patch in will help us concentrate on the agent-side changes during the L-3 timeframe. | 14:59 |
| mestery | yushiro: yw | 14:59 |
| mestery | OK, thanks folks! | 14:59 |
| yushiro | mestery, I've posted the patch for updating sub_project.rst. https://review.openstack.org/#/c/206293/ Would you please review it? | 14:59 |
| mestery | We'll see you all in #openstack-neutron | 14:59 |
| mestery | yushiro: Will look, yes. | 14:59 |
| mestery | #endmeeting | 14:59 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "BP (Meeting topic: tricircle)" | 14:59 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Jul 28 14:59:39 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 14:59 |
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| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/networking/2015/networking.2015-07-28-14.01.html | 14:59 |
| neiljerram | Bye all! | 14:59 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/networking/2015/networking.2015-07-28-14.01.txt | 14:59 |
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| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/networking/2015/networking.2015-07-28-14.01.log.html | 14:59 |
| fawadkhaliq | bye! | 14:59 |
| regXboi | oom | 15:00 |
| * regXboi wanders to next meeting | 15:00 | |
| yushiro | bye bye... | 15:00 |
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| hoangcx | Bye | 15:00 |
| miyagishi_t | bye | 15:00 |
| hichihara | bye | 15:00 |
| annp | bye | 15:00 |
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| adreznec | exit | 15:01 |
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| henrynash | hi | 18:01 |
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| marekd | hello | 18:01 |
| lbragstad | o/ | 18:01 |
| htruta | o/ | 18:01 |
| roxanaghe_ | hi | 18:01 |
| topol | o/ | 18:01 |
| tsymanczyk | hello | 18:01 |
| david8hu | o\ | 18:01 |
| morganfainberg | so stevemar o/ | 18:01 |
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| raildo | こんにちは | 18:02 |
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| morganfainberg | ajayaa, amakarov, ayoung, breton, browne, davechen, david8hu, dolphm, dstanek, ericksonsantos, geoffarnold, gyee, henrynash, hogepodge, htruta, jamielennox, joesavak, lbragstad, lhcheng, marekd, morganfainberg, nkinder, raildo, rharwood, rodrigods, roxanaghe, samueldmq, stevemar, topol, wanghong | 18:02 |
| marekd | o/ | 18:02 |
| dstanek | o/ | 18:02 |
| rodrigods | o/ | 18:03 |
| lhcheng_ | o/ | 18:03 |
| samueldmq | hey | 18:03 |
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| morganfainberg | https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/KeystoneMeeting | 18:03 |
| samueldmq | I am ready for the battle | 18:03 |
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| qwebirc34569 | o/ | 18:03 |
| morganfainberg | it's that time of the week... | 18:03 |
| browne | hi | 18:03 |
| jamielennox | ... | 18:03 |
| ericksonsantos | \o | 18:03 |
| morganfainberg | jamielennox: Hi! | 18:03 |
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| morganfainberg | ok i think we have enough cores for a quorum | 18:04 |
| * morganfainberg looks for an ayoung, stevemar, lhcheng_, and henrynash | 18:04 | |
| morganfainberg | oh i see henrynash | 18:04 |
| marekd | henrynash was here | 18:04 |
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| morganfainberg | #startmeeting keystone | 18:04 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Jul 28 18:04:56 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is morganfainberg. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 18:04 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 18:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:04 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'keystone' | 18:05 |
| morganfainberg | Hi and stuff | 18:05 |
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| bknudson | hi | 18:05 |
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| henrynash | yep, I;m here | 18:05 |
| morganfainberg | #topic Reviews needed for List Role Assignments Performance patch | 18:05 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Reviews needed for List Role Assignments Performance patch (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:05 | |
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| morganfainberg | henrynash: lead on | 18:05 |
| henrynash | ok, So this is something that samueldmq worked on during Kilo, but we bumped it | 18:05 |
| henrynash | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/137202/ | 18:05 |
| samueldmq | henrynash: it has almost 1 year now :) | 18:05 |
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| henrynash | although it is great for performance…we really want to do this as well so we can base all code that needs to workout group and inheritance roles on this | 18:06 |
| henrynash | so just a plea for some review time so ew can get it into L2 hopefully | 18:06 |
| morganfainberg | wont land for L2 unless it's gating today | 18:06 |
| morganfainberg | FYI | 18:06 |
| henrynash | ok, so if not L2, then L3 ! | 18:07 |
| morganfainberg | so assume it's an L3 | 18:07 |
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| henrynash | there are a whole string of patches that follow this that start using this backend filtering | 18:07 |
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| ayoung | oyez | 18:07 |
| * morganfainberg waves ayoung to the front of the room. | 18:07 | |
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| henrynash | no need to take up more time here, unless anyone has specific questions | 18:08 |
| ayoung | henrynash, we have hard numbers oin the perf issues? | 18:08 |
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| dolphm | I can probably help validate performance | 18:08 |
| morganfainberg | henrynash: if it's a "perf" reason to do the work, I'd like to see numbers validating the gain/benefit | 18:08 |
| dolphm | Been doing a lot of that lately | 18:08 |
| morganfainberg | dolphm: ++ thanks. | 18:08 |
| samueldmq | dolphm: ++ it'd be great ot have some benchmarking on that :) | 18:08 |
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| dstanek | i have not looked at this review since last week, but i'll get through it after this meeting | 18:08 |
| henrynash | ayoung: no…but the current code is that any list of role assignments means we retrieve ALL role assignmenst i the whole system, and tehn filter them in teh controller | 18:09 |
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| samueldmq | dolphm: let me know if you need a hand on that front | 18:09 |
| samueldmq | dstanek: thanks | 18:09 |
| ayoung | we probably should make sure to include LDAP in there. I had a data set for a large user list...we should probably build up a "to scale" data set | 18:09 |
| bknudson | target https://blueprints.launchpad.net/keystone/+spec/list-role-assignments-performance to l3? | 18:09 |
| samueldmq | ldap assignment is dying a terrible death (cc morganfainberg ) | 18:09 |
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| samueldmq | ayoung: ^ | 18:10 |
| morganfainberg | samueldmq: this is identity not assignment | 18:10 |
| ayoung | yeah, solemente LDAP for Identity | 18:10 |
| henrynash | ayoung: the current code works for both ldap and sql (even thouse assignent ldap is a lower priority) | 18:10 |
| morganfainberg | bknudson: target for l3 when it lands. lets not try and predict it landing. | 18:10 |
| ayoung | users and groups in LDAP, role assignments in SQL is my primary use case | 18:10 |
| samueldmq | this is assignment, list_role_assignments | 18:10 |
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| morganfainberg | bknudson: or if you feel strongly, go ahead and target it - i'll work w/ relmngmnt to untarget if needed down the line | 18:11 |
| ayoung | morganfainberg, bknudson ++ | 18:11 |
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| samueldmq | I don't even touch the identity code | 18:11 |
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| ayoung | dstanek, I still owe you an LDAP functional test, too | 18:11 |
| bknudson | I don't feel strongly either way... wasn't sure how we're tracking. | 18:11 |
| morganfainberg | bknudson: i'm at the point we should target when it lands if we cna | 18:12 |
| morganfainberg | can* | 18:12 |
| morganfainberg | rather than saying "this will land at X" and then untargeting later | 18:12 |
| dstanek | ++ makes it easier to see what's going on in a glance | 18:12 |
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| samueldmq | morganfainberg: and that could be done automatically by our tools | 18:12 |
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| morganfainberg | ok so, from my perspective - if we have clear numbers [since this claimed to be perf] i'm fine with this landing in l3 | 18:13 |
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| bknudson | apparently it's not just perf since a bunch of other stuff is depending on it | 18:13 |
| ayoung | dolphm, you've been testing speed, but not memory usage, right? | 18:14 |
| samueldmq | bknudson: yes, it moves the expasion logic to the manager level | 18:14 |
| bknudson | and I assume the stuff that depends on it isn't needing it just for perf | 18:14 |
| dolphm | Correct | 18:14 |
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| henrynash | bknduson: ++ | 18:14 |
| dolphm | Our memory usage is generally not alarming | 18:14 |
| ayoung | this might be more of a memory perf issue, if all those lists are duplicated. Might be worth considering for future perf issues | 18:14 |
| ayoung | we might hit memory management thresholds | 18:15 |
| morganfainberg | memory usage is mostly fine in keystone atm | 18:15 |
| ayoung | good to know | 18:15 |
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| ayoung | list users had some issues that way, IIRC | 18:15 |
| morganfainberg | it's worth evaluating - but not in this context | 18:15 |
| ayoung | before limiting results | 18:15 |
| morganfainberg | as a separate specific evaluation | 18:15 |
| samueldmq | if we have lots of group/inherited assingments, that would be toooo bad | 18:15 |
| morganfainberg | since we haven't really done this for keystone in the past | 18:15 |
| samueldmq | ++ | 18:16 |
| morganfainberg | lets not make that a requirement here [since we've mostly been fine] | 18:16 |
| ayoung | morganfainberg, "for future ..." | 18:16 |
| morganfainberg | ayoung: yes. | 18:16 |
| henrynash | morganfainberg: Ok, that’s probably enough on that one | 18:16 |
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| morganfainberg | i see no issue with this landing in l3, please review it | 18:17 |
| bknudson | I starred it. | 18:17 |
| morganfainberg | unless someone has a concern | 18:17 |
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| morganfainberg | #topic Request from nova meetup: Document what other projects need to know about keystone | 18:17 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Request from nova meetup: Document what other projects need to know about keystone (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:17 | |
| morganfainberg | bknudson: o/ | 18:17 |
| bknudson | the nova midcycle was in rochester last week | 18:17 |
| bknudson | so I went to it since it's just on the other side of the facility | 18:18 |
| bknudson | they had a few questions, so I suggested I'd write up a doc so they'd be able to refer to it in future | 18:18 |
| bknudson | mostly about what's v3. | 18:18 |
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| bknudson | rather than try to do everything in a review I started an etherpad: https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/keystone-info | 18:18 |
| bknudson | which I'll copy into a review for our docs next week. | 18:19 |
| ayoung | I think that is split into two pieces; auth token (which is all Nova should care about) and stuff like what Heat and more workflow related projects need | 18:19 |
| bknudson | so if you have anything to add just do it. | 18:19 |
| ayoung | V3 auth token needs to be well supported. | 18:19 |
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| jamielennox | for auth_token i almost just need to start again on the docs | 18:20 |
| topol | nice writeup bknudson | 18:20 |
| jamielennox | there's so much that's been deprecated or otherwised moved that it gets confusing | 18:20 |
| ayoung | nice. | 18:20 |
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| ayoung | dolphm, this kindof gets at why I wrote up that V2.0 bug | 18:21 |
| jamielennox | but i agree, there are very few services that should know anything more than what auth_token provides | 18:21 |
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| ayoung | link in a sec | 18:21 |
| morganfainberg | jamielennox: ++ yep, pretty much auth_token and auth [keystoneauth] is the real limit of what services need to know unless they are heat | 18:22 |
| morganfainberg | or similar orchestration | 18:22 |
| morganfainberg | auth if they need to do independant $things | 18:22 |
| morganfainberg | and most don't | 18:22 |
| ayoung | but there is there ever a case where a V2 token needs to be properly converted to a V3 token, to inlcude domain values? | 18:22 |
| samueldmq | or they need to know, let's say, a given project's hierarhcy to do quota enforcement | 18:22 |
| samueldmq | :) | 18:23 |
| jamielennox | and that would be what i would add to that etherpad, yes we explain domains but be explicit that nova should never care about it | 18:23 |
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| jamielennox | we have lots of requests saying how should i handle domains and the answer is to ignore them | 18:23 |
| morganfainberg | ok so lets get that info added to the etherpad | 18:23 |
| ayoung | https://bugs.launchpad.net/keystone/+bug/1477373 | 18:23 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1477373 in Keystone "No way to convert V2 tokens to V3 if domain id changes" [Undecided,New] | 18:23 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1477373 in keystone "No way to convert V2 tokens to V3 if domain id changes" [Undecided,New] | 18:23 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1477373 in keystone "No way to convert V2 tokens to V3 if domain id changes" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1477373 | 18:23 |
| morganfainberg | ayoung: wait what? | 18:23 |
| bknudson | bots are taking over | 18:23 |
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| morganfainberg | ayoung: that doesn't make sense at all | 18:23 |
| morganfainberg | ayoung: if domain id changes?! | 18:24 |
| ayoung | morganfainberg, we discussed at the midcycle. | 18:24 |
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| ayoung | morganfainberg, from "default" to some UUID | 18:24 |
| ayoung | if the default domain changes... | 18:24 |
| morganfainberg | if they are changing the default domain... | 18:24 |
| morganfainberg | things are going to get weird | 18:24 |
| ayoung | ok...lets say we have a setup where there is a lot of V2 tooling | 18:24 |
| ayoung | but they are switching over to LDAP for end users | 18:24 |
| ayoung | so the LDAP goes into a domain specific backend | 18:24 |
| samueldmq | and we allow that https://github.com/openstack/keystone/blob/master/etc/keystone.conf.sample#L791 | 18:25 |
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| bknudson | get rid of your v2 tooling | 18:25 |
| ayoung | are we saying that the default domain always *MUST* have a domain ID of _default_? | 18:25 |
| morganfainberg | ayoung: i'd say default domain needs to have an id that isn't changed post deployment | 18:26 |
| samueldmq | ayoung: we can't as we provide a config option for it | 18:26 |
| ayoung | bknudson, people have been building to V2 for a while. Getting rid of it will take a while | 18:26 |
| morganfainberg | unless you're really willing to do all sorts of insane things | 18:26 |
| ayoung | morganfainberg, "isn't changed post deployment" doesn't quite cut it | 18:26 |
| ayoung | we don't communitate the domain id in any manageable way | 18:26 |
| morganfainberg | ayoung: honestly i want to push people towards v3 more and more | 18:26 |
| ayoung | the two options we discussed at the mid cycle were "query the config options via a web api" and "put hints in the v2 tokens" | 18:27 |
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| ayoung | but...maybe the "hints" part is no longer an issue... | 18:27 |
| * morganfainberg doesn't remember this convo | 18:27 | |
| dolphm | Because v2 clients are not domain aware, and the default domain is bit special in v3 | 18:27 |
| dolphm | Not* | 18:27 |
| ayoung | I was thinking PKI, but with Fernet, it is not really a problem...we can always tell them to get v3 tokens... | 18:27 |
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| browne | some v2 tooling is still necessary from my experience. i've tried to use OSC but it does not have all commands available in the older CLIs | 18:28 |
| morganfainberg | browne: ok so v2 keystone should have no impact on the other CLIs | 18:28 |
| dolphm | Browne, like what? | 18:28 |
| ayoung | browne, I saw that with neutron, but neutron CLI should work with V3 auth | 18:28 |
| bknudson | so you're going to switch the domain_id for a couple of operations and then switch it back? | 18:28 |
| ayoung | bknudson, neutron misses routers...maybe even subnets | 18:28 |
| browne | like creating provider networks in OSC. you can do it in neutron CLI but not OSC | 18:28 |
| morganfainberg | browne: this sounds like a bug in OSC | 18:29 |
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| shaleh | OSC has not been updated to support all commands from the project CLIs | 18:29 |
| ayoung | ok...so are we finally at the point where we can say "deprecate V2.0" and we will have an aswer for all use cases? | 18:29 |
| haneef | neutron CLI supports v3 | 18:29 |
| browne | morganfainberg: agree, but becomes an inhibitor to going to keystone v3. i was trying to utilize the multi-domain backend feature | 18:29 |
| shaleh | make bugs, people will close it | 18:29 |
| morganfainberg | so lets fix the bug in OSC | 18:29 |
| morganfainberg | browne: this is not a reason we should be holding onto v2 keystone -- | 18:30 |
| ayoung | if so, and we can honestly kill v2.0 tokens, I'll be very happy | 18:30 |
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| * morganfainberg is really getting tired of the auth is tied to the crud interface | 18:30 | |
| bknudson | if the CLIs aren't deprecated then they need to support v3 auth | 18:30 |
| lifeless | morganfainberg: does it feel dirty? | 18:30 |
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| morganfainberg | lifeless: i am going to avoid a reaaaaaaly long rant on that here ;) | 18:30 |
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| bknudson | what doesn't work with users in ldap domain? | 18:31 |
| ayoung | OK, so we can tell all of the other services "forget that v2.0 token API exists." right? | 18:31 |
| morganfainberg | ayoung: that is what we should do. | 18:31 |
| dstanek | are the other CLIs not deprecated? i haven't been paying attention | 18:31 |
| ayoung | bknudson, ah, so if you do an install, the default domain gets all the service users | 18:32 |
| morganfainberg | dstanek: i think we're the only one officially saying "no really stop using it and go to osc" | 18:32 |
| dstanek | morganfainberg: bummer | 18:32 |
| bknudson | dstanek: I haven't seen any other project deprecate their CLI | 18:32 |
| ayoung | and then you creata new domain, put ldap in there, and make that the default domain for all the V2 tooling out there | 18:32 |
| bknudson | esssentially you've got service users in your default domain | 18:32 |
| ayoung | its more than just the osc thing. Its the keystone.rc files | 18:32 |
| morganfainberg | so lets work on making v2 auth die. | 18:33 |
| haneef | browne: multi-domain backend will have problems with few apis. if you are using list_users ( all users), there is no such operation in multi_domain_backend. It is always list_user for a domain | 18:33 |
| samueldmq | maybe we should move on .. otherwise we won't cover the other topics in the meeting :( | 18:33 |
| morganfainberg | haneef: that isn't really a reason to hang onto v2 | 18:33 |
| samueldmq | at least the ones listed in the meeting page :) | 18:33 |
| morganfainberg | haneef: in fact, i'd say that has no real bearing on v2 vs v3 | 18:33 |
| jamielennox | the only people that need service users in the default domain now are the projects that mix their keystone_authtoken parameters and if you switch it over to v3 auth then the service doesn't work | 18:33 |
| jamielennox | there aren't many of those left (none off the top of my head) | 18:33 |
| ayoung | bknudson, but if you have a thrid party app, that only knows about V2 auth, and your LDAP users will want to use that app, you make the default domain other thanthe one setup by the installer with the domain id of _default_ | 18:33 |
| dstanek | samueldmq's waiting to be grilled :-) | 18:33 |
| morganfainberg | jamielennox: and i just sent another email to the ML asking people to avoid doing that again | 18:34 |
| samueldmq | dstanek: eheh | 18:34 |
| jamielennox | morganfainberg: i saw | 18:34 |
| morganfainberg | i saw some more cases it was being implemented | 18:34 |
| ayoung | that was the context behind that bug. I'll try to make it clearer | 18:34 |
| morganfainberg | ok | 18:34 |
| bknudson | ayoung: I think you're going to have problems anyways... what if I have 2 LDAP domains? | 18:34 |
| ayoung | bknudson, I'm just trying to solve common case | 18:34 |
| morganfainberg | ok i think we're kind of off the topic here and into the weeds | 18:35 |
| ayoung | obviosuly won't work for everyone | 18:35 |
| bknudson | update https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/keystone-info with more info | 18:35 |
| bknudson | and it'll eventually go in keystone developer docs | 18:35 |
| morganfainberg | bknudson: ++ | 18:35 |
| bknudson | then you can update it there | 18:35 |
| morganfainberg | please update the etherpad | 18:35 |
| morganfainberg | ok lets move on | 18:35 |
| morganfainberg | #topic keystoneauth release? K2K in Horizon is waiting for the K2KAuthPlugin, should we add it in python-keystoneclient so we can speed up things? | 18:35 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "keystoneauth release? K2K in Horizon is waiting for the K2KAuthPlugin, should we add it in python-keystoneclient so we can speed up things? (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:35 | |
| morganfainberg | jamielennox: this is a question for you -- how soon can we get keystoneauth ready to go? | 18:36 |
| ayoung | are there library deps? thought that needed saml2 | 18:36 |
| bknudson | is this 1.0 release ? | 18:36 |
| morganfainberg | we need to dump oslo.config and there were a couple minor things left | 18:36 |
| bknudson | or 0.1 or something? | 18:36 |
| marekd | ayoung: nope | 18:36 |
| morganfainberg | bknudson: this depends on keystoneauth 1.0 *or* needs to go into keystoneclient | 18:36 |
| bknudson | how do the docs look? | 18:36 |
| jamielennox | i haven't been active on it for a week or two, but i posted a review the other day | 18:36 |
| jamielennox | umm | 18:36 |
| ayoung | cool | 18:36 |
| jamielennox | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/205753/ | 18:36 |
| morganfainberg | so the biggest blocker is oslo.config | 18:36 |
| morganfainberg | probably #2 is docs | 18:37 |
| jamielennox | that review just removes everything to do with plugin loading and so removes the stevedore and oslo.config dep | 18:37 |
| morganfainberg | ah | 18:37 |
| morganfainberg | cool | 18:37 |
| bknudson | neutron is being a real stick in the mud with keystoneauth reviews recently | 18:37 |
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| jamielennox | this would mean that to do all the automated plugin loading for now you would still need to use keystoneclient | 18:37 |
| morganfainberg | jamielennox: we need to find out how to do automated plugin loading without keystoneclient and without oslo.config | 18:38 |
| jamielennox | but it would mean we could unblock the k2k stuff and the federation stuff that doesn't have a great story around automatic loading anyway | 18:38 |
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| morganfainberg | jamielennox: lets not walk backwards to requring ksc for things | 18:38 |
| jamielennox | and figure out what we want to do about loading as a seperate step | 18:38 |
| bknudson | make it a separate project | 18:38 |
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| bknudson | keystoneauth-config | 18:38 |
| morganfainberg | i don't want to force people back to keystonelcient which is what that would do | 18:38 |
| jamielennox | morganfainberg: right - i'm not saying we keep it in ksc permanently, just get ksa moving along | 18:38 |
| morganfainberg | jamielennox: we can't release a 1.0 if everyone keeps using keystoneclient and has no path forward | 18:39 |
| morganfainberg | we need a path forward for 1.z | 18:39 |
| morganfainberg | 1.x* | 18:39 |
| jamielennox | bknudson: the failure isn't actually neutrons fault, there is some issue with git cloning the project i haven't figured out yet | 18:39 |
| dstanek | jamielennox: is that the job failure i keep seeing? | 18:39 |
| bknudson | jamielennox: thanks for looking into it | 18:39 |
| rodrigods | if we still need to use ksc, what your opinion regarding k2k plugin? | 18:39 |
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| morganfainberg | rodrigods: we aren't going to require keystoneclient | 18:40 |
| jamielennox | morganfainberg: particularly if the auth loading stuff is going into anotherproject then it would be fine to release 1.0 without it | 18:40 |
| morganfainberg | jamielennox: then i want that other project ready as well | 18:40 |
| morganfainberg | jamielennox: i am not willing to do a "we might or might not do this but we don't know and we aren't fixing anything but depending on this other thing" | 18:40 |
| morganfainberg | sorry i'd rather scrub keystoneauth completly | 18:40 |
| marekd | morganfainberg: how about rodrigods just depend on exiting ksa with some red flag in mind? | 18:40 |
| marekd | rodrigods: k2k plugin will not change .... | 18:41 |
| dstanek | i asked about http://logs.openstack.org/88/201088/5/check/gate-tempest-dsvm-neutron-src-keystoneauth/4439cd5/logs/devstacklog.txt.gz#_2015-07-28_13_55_04_277 in infra earlier today, but haven't gotten a chance to follow up on their hint | 18:41 |
| marekd | so i don't expet your patches would change one day | 18:41 |
| marekd | rodrigods: and we will just wait for ksa release | 18:41 |
| marekd | morganfainberg: stevemar same could be with moving osc to ksa. | 18:41 |
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| marekd | morganfainberg: stevemar cause right now federated plugins are quite messy and it's just better to start using ksa. | 18:41 |
| marekd | or ksa-saml2 repo even | 18:42 |
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| morganfainberg | if all we're doing is moving logic out but everyone has to keep doing it the old way and we have no real knowledge of where loading is going | 18:42 |
| morganfainberg | we're doing it wrong. | 18:42 |
| ayoung | anything else the rest of us need to do? | 18:42 |
| morganfainberg | so lets solve where loading is | 18:42 |
| morganfainberg | and break the dep on oslo.config *and* not force keystoneclient | 18:42 |
| bknudson | I kind of like the separate project for config / loading since then it would shield users from having to know which keystoneauth version they need. | 18:42 |
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| morganfainberg | bknudson: i'd support it | 18:43 |
| jamielennox | ok, i'll look at getting another project spun up for the loading as i've had mutliple people suggest it | 18:43 |
| morganfainberg | jamielennox: ++ | 18:43 |
| morganfainberg | thankx | 18:43 |
| jamielennox | OSC is very keen on seperate project | 18:43 |
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| jamielennox | well dtroyer anyway | 18:43 |
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| morganfainberg | #topic Reseller | 18:43 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Reseller (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:43 | |
| morganfainberg | htruta: o/ | 18:43 |
| htruta | morganfainberg: o/ | 18:43 |
| rodrigods | please review | 18:43 |
| rodrigods | ^ | 18:43 |
| htruta | that should be quick | 18:43 |
| htruta | yes, please | 18:43 |
| raildo | ++ | 18:43 |
| htruta | should we set a target to L3 ? | 18:43 |
| rodrigods | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/157427/ | 18:44 |
| htruta | we don't have it yet | 18:44 |
| rodrigods | start from here | 18:44 |
| morganfainberg | again | 18:44 |
| morganfainberg | don't target until landing | 18:44 |
| morganfainberg | don't try and predict landing, target when it has landed | 18:44 |
| htruta | morganfainberg: k | 18:44 |
| morganfainberg | anything else on reseller? | 18:44 |
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| htruta | that's all | 18:45 |
| ayoung | samueldmq, your up | 18:45 |
| morganfainberg | #topic Dynamic Policies | 18:45 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Dynamic Policies (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:45 | |
| ayoung | or you're up | 18:45 |
| samueldmq | hi | 18:45 |
| ayoung | either way | 18:45 |
| morganfainberg | where is the spec? | 18:45 |
| morganfainberg | again? | 18:45 |
| david8hu | We need to cut the policy overlay piece and go straight to centralize complete policy files in Keystone. Most deployers are not changing their policy files, but if they do, they want to test out locally with the local policy files. Deployers might as well submitt the entire tested policy file to keystone. | 18:45 |
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| samueldmq | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/197980/ | 18:45 |
| samueldmq | and | 18:45 |
| samueldmq | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/134655/ | 18:45 |
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| samueldmq | those 2 are the remaining ones, one for ksmiddleware and another for keystone controlling the cache mechanism | 18:46 |
| ayoung | I think 80 should be non-contraversial; using HTTP properly | 18:46 |
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| samueldmq | we've got reviews, I updated the spec, everything looked good but dstanek has some concerns on it | 18:46 |
| ayoung | it is the 55 one that is the client side that needs the SFE | 18:46 |
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| marekd | dstanek: ? | 18:47 |
| ayoung | henrynash, so :endpoint_ids" are just the first hack. eventually, we will resolve the urls to endpoint_ids, but we can do it in steps | 18:47 |
| ayoung | endpoint_ids are already implemented by the server. | 18:47 |
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| samueldmq | basically dstanek's concerns are that, in our current endpoint model, we allow an effective service endpoint to have multiple policies (since multiple interfaces mean multiple ids) | 18:48 |
| dstanek | samueldmq and i were discussing today how we could possibly use a list of endpoint ids and pick one for the service | 18:48 |
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| samueldmq | dstanek: please go ahead | 18:48 |
| ayoung | dstanek, "hard than you think" we are aware of how hard it can be, which is why we are going to do endpoint_id first | 18:48 |
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| dstanek | ayoung: if you allow the service to specify a list of endpoints, which policy do they get if each has a policy defined? | 18:49 |
| ayoung | dstanek, are any of your concerns "stop ship" type concerns | 18:49 |
| ayoung | dstanek, I would limit it to 1 endpoint id to start in the authtoken config section | 18:50 |
| dstanek | ayoung: i think the model in fundamentally wrong :-( i guess it's possible that we can document and exact setup that would work | 18:50 |
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| ayoung | a service could, in theory have multiple config files, one per endpoint on the same server. In practice, they will share a config fi;e | 18:50 |
| david8hu | BTW, did anyone chk with nova and others to see if the proposal meet their needs? | 18:51 |
| samueldmq | david8hu: this work of policy distribution is independent of what they have/want | 18:51 |
| samueldmq | david8hu: we allow policy definition/associoation, just putting the distribution together now | 18:51 |
| david8hu | samueldmq, but they are ultimately the consumers. | 18:52 |
| ayoung | david8hu, we've had a distinct lack of response from the other projects on Dynamic policy, with the exception of Horizon, that really needs it | 18:52 |
| dstanek | i would rather know if it handles deployer needs/concerns | 18:52 |
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| samueldmq | david8hu: our consumers here are the deployers | 18:52 |
| ayoung | dstanek, horizon is currently caching the policy files. It would be most useful to UIs | 18:52 |
| ayoung | to know that the policy file they had matched the one the endpoint is using | 18:52 |
| samueldmq | dstanek: so I've an email draft, but ayoung had some concerns about sending this out at this point | 18:53 |
| samueldmq | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/centralized-policy-delivery-operators | 18:53 |
| david8hu | samueldmq, all other services still need changes to pick this up don't they? | 18:53 |
| ayoung | david8hu, no, that is the point | 18:53 |
| samueldmq | david8hu: no that will be a change in ksmiddleware | 18:53 |
| samueldmq | ayoung: ++ | 18:53 |
| ayoung | they do not need to change, they inherit the config option from keystone | 18:53 |
| dstanek | the right thing to do would be to allow the endpoint id (only 1 and not a list) to be specified for each instance of middleware | 18:53 |
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| david8hu | not even minor changes? | 18:54 |
| ayoung | dstanek, ++ | 18:54 |
| samueldmq | dstanek: ayoung so we don't do url -> discovery ? | 18:54 |
| henrynash | ayoung: endpoint_ids are my concern as well…..reading the spec doesn’t explain to me how endpoint_ids wrok in this context, what the limitations/complexities might be for a deployer etc. So I have a hard time supporting this as spec’d | 18:54 |
| samueldmq | and let the deployer choose the id ? | 18:54 |
| ayoung | david8hu, they need to change to use the oslo.poliyc library anyway. Beyond that, it is all middleware | 18:54 |
| dstanek | samueldmq: i've always said that you have to have a single ID for the middleware to use. i'd rather it just be a policy id, but any id would fix the ambiguity we keep creating | 18:55 |
| ayoung | henrynash, I am asusming you are thinking that a singe server is backing multiple endpoints with multiple policy files, so how do we get the right one? Short answer, we don't support that to start | 18:55 |
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| ayoung | we support "you get one for this server. Pick one" | 18:55 |
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| morganfainberg | dstanek: the only concern with the policy id is if it's a uuid meaning you need to upload the data to know what the id is... bad bad bad for deployers | 18:56 |
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| ayoung | dstanek, if we go with the policy ID, we can't update the policy for an endpoiint without restarting the endpoint | 18:56 |
| henrynash | ayoung: we just don’t eplain this in the spec…..other than saying “the deployer can set the endpoing_ids" | 18:56 |
| dstanek | ayoung: if the middleware just knows about an id a service can deploy with muliple pipelines including that middleware with different Ids, right? | 18:56 |
| samueldmq | morganfainberg: another point is that we aren't holding the endpoint/policy association in keystone server that way | 18:56 |
| samueldmq | morganfainberg: and changign the policy id would require a restart | 18:56 |
| dstanek | morganfainberg: endpint id has the same issue | 18:56 |
| ayoung | henrynash, becasue the goal was to not have to do this... morganfainberg was pushing for a completely automated discovery...we want to support that. but please stop asking for us to boil the ocean...we are shooting for "actually implementable" here | 18:57 |
| dstanek | samueldmq: that's a good point | 18:57 |
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| ayoung | dstanek, right, the goal here is to migratethe policy management from static files/ansible/config file to centralize in the keystone server | 18:58 |
| henrynash | ayoung: I’m just asking for a clear spec….if the answer one endpoint, fine…just say so….what’s tough to support is a spec that isn;t clear about what is and isn’t supported | 18:58 |
| ayoung | if that goal is not acceptable to the team...please speak up now. This has been my concern, that we are arguing about details, but have not agreed on the big picture | 18:58 |
| samueldmq | morganfainberg: should we continue in #keystone ? I think we're out of time .. infra folks should start they meeting | 18:58 |
| morganfainberg | we have 1-2min | 18:58 |
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| samueldmq | ok | 18:58 |
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| dstanek | ayoung: i could see having a service_id or endpoint_id in the config (but if would be nice to support having multiple instances of middleware) - no lists because that can't work | 18:59 |
| ayoung | dstanek, I agree | 18:59 |
| ayoung | we'll make that modification | 18:59 |
| henrynash | ayoung: I support the principle of a Keysteone Polciy CMS (that’s what this is)….so it IS the detail for me | 18:59 |
| dstanek | ayoung: i'm just wondering if any deployer cares | 18:59 |
| morganfainberg | #endmeeting | 18:59 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "BP (Meeting topic: tricircle)" | 18:59 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Jul 28 18:59:50 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 18:59 |
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| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2015/keystone.2015-07-28-18.04.html | 18:59 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2015/keystone.2015-07-28-18.04.txt | 18:59 |
| morganfainberg | and to -keystone | 18:59 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2015/keystone.2015-07-28-18.04.log.html | 18:59 |
| ayoung | ok...so, assuming we make that change, any other showstoppers? | 18:59 |
| ayoung | and...I just turned into a pumpkin | 19:00 |
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| clarkb | o/ | 19:00 |
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| jeblair | howdy infras | 19:00 |
| pleia2 | o/ | 19:00 |
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| Zara | o/ | 19:00 |
| nibalizer | yay infra! | 19:00 |
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| yolanda | o/ | 19:00 |
| mmedvede | o/ | 19:00 |
| * olaph lurks | 19:01 | |
| * Shrews stabs olaph, then lurks | 19:01 | |
| jeblair | #startmeeting infra | 19:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Jul 28 19:01:35 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is jeblair. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 19:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 19:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:01 | |
| jeblair | #link agenda https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/InfraTeamMeeting#Agenda_for_next_meeting | 19:01 |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'infra' | 19:01 |
| jeblair | #link previous meeting http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2015/infra.2015-07-21-19.02.html | 19:01 |
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| jhesketh | Morning | 19:01 |
| ianw | o/ | 19:01 |
| jeblair | #topic Specs approval | 19:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Specs approval (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:01 | |
| jeblair | #topic Specs approval: Zuul v3 (jeblair) | 19:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Specs approval: Zuul v3 (jeblair) (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:01 | |
| jeblair | #link zuulv3 spec https://review.openstack.org/164371 | 19:02 |
| jeblair | i wrote a spec | 19:02 |
| jeblair | i think we should do it | 19:02 |
| jeblair | i confess that it does not hold all the answers | 19:02 |
| jeblair | but i think it describes enough that several people can work on aspects of the problem in parallel | 19:03 |
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| jhesketh | I'm a fan and I'm looking forward to it. I'm sure we can figure it out what's left as we go | 19:03 |
| jeblair | it's certainly been hammered on for a while | 19:04 |
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| yolanda | i'm willing to have some bits of that spec | 19:04 |
| yolanda | as a downstream consumer, i'm worried about others | 19:04 |
| yolanda | specially about jenkins replacement | 19:04 |
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| jeblair | yeah, that will be some work | 19:05 |
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| jeblair | but it beats hiring a bunch of people to restart jenkins all the time | 19:05 |
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| clarkb | +1000 as th eperson that did that yesterday | 19:06 |
| clarkb | my upstream bug is still DOA fwiw | 19:06 |
| yolanda | yes, we have jenkins problems as well | 19:06 |
| jeblair | anyway, anyone think it's not ready for voting, or shall we vote on it? | 19:06 |
| * fungi is fashionably late | 19:07 | |
| pleia2 | I think it's as far as it'll get in this phase, voting sounds good | 19:07 |
| fungi | apologies | 19:07 |
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| jeblair | #info zuulv3 spec voting open until 2015-07-30 19:00 UTC | 19:07 |
| fungi | yes, please open voting on the zuul v3 spec ;) | 19:07 |
| jeblair | woot | 19:07 |
| jeblair | #topic Priority Efforts | 19:07 |
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| jeblair | i'd like to take a break from our typical "never do status reports" and instead "do status reports" this week | 19:08 |
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| jeblair | mostly because a lot of us have been out and about recently, and it'll be good to try to resync on where we are now that most of us are back | 19:08 |
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| jeblair | and i'd love to remove some from the list :) | 19:09 |
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| jeblair | #topic Priority Efforts (Swift Logs) | 19:09 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Priority Efforts (Swift Logs) (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:09 | |
| jeblair | who knows what's up here? | 19:09 |
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| clarkb | jhesketh ^ otherwise I can fill in what I know | 19:09 |
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| clarkb | the os loganalyze changes to support configurable file passthrough from swift are in place | 19:10 |
| jeblair | that gets us "host binary files" ? | 19:10 |
| jhesketh | Yep so now the next part is just changing more jobs over | 19:10 |
| jhesketh | Yes | 19:10 |
| clarkb | so now we just need to deploy config that says pass through anything that isn't a log so that js and disk images etc work properly | 19:10 |
| clarkb | I think pleia2 and mtreinish discoverd a traceback today in the swift upload script which we should look at too | 19:11 |
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| jhesketh | Yeah so part of changing the jobs over is figuring out what needs to be passed through or not too | 19:11 |
| pleia2 | yeah, I can dig up the link if needed | 19:11 |
| jhesketh | Oh? | 19:11 |
| jhesketh | That's be handy | 19:12 |
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| clarkb | jhesketh: our existing apache mod rewrite rules can be used as the basisi | 19:12 |
| clarkb | we already decide for on disk stuff | 19:12 |
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| fungi | pleia2: and possibly copying that traceback into paste.o.o before jenkins expires it in the next day | 19:12 |
| jhesketh | clarkb: yep :-) | 19:12 |
| pleia2 | fungi: good idea, I can share this over in -infra since we don't need to debug during the meeting | 19:13 |
| clarkb | jhesketh: do you want to write that change? I can give it a go if you are busy | 19:13 |
| fungi | thanks! | 19:13 |
| jhesketh | pleia2: okay thanks | 19:13 |
| jeblair | #action pleia2 provide swift log upload traceback | 19:13 |
| jhesketh | clarkb: I can do the config change today but I don't think I'll have time to look at jobs until next week | 19:14 |
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| clarkb | jhesketh: ok | 19:14 |
| jeblair | #action jhesketh update os-loganalyze to use pass-through rules | 19:14 |
| mtreinish | clarkb: yeah we did | 19:14 |
| mtreinish | it was the same one from before, about hitting a timeout | 19:14 |
| jeblair | what's the status of the index problem we ran into? (where you can't explore jobs that have run for a change) | 19:15 |
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| mtreinish | jhesketh, clarkb: https://jenkins03.openstack.org/job/gate-tempest-pep8/3690/console | 19:15 |
| jeblair | (basically, there was no autogen index of things like logs.o.o/PATH_TO_CHANGE/gate/) | 19:15 |
| clarkb | jeblair: thats still not addressed, it requires knowledge of all the jobs that have run or will run in order to upload an index.html | 19:15 |
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| jeblair | clarkb: or it requires os_loganalyze to ask swift, right? | 19:16 |
| clarkb | we can probably have os-loganalyze generate it on the fly? do a swift list of that prefix | 19:16 |
| clarkb | jeblair: ya | 19:16 |
| jhesketh | jeblair: ah I wasn't aware of that, but yes that's right | 19:16 |
| jeblair | anyone want to write that? | 19:16 |
| jhesketh | Which makes os-loganalyze more complex | 19:16 |
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| jhesketh | But yeah, I can take a look | 19:16 |
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| jhesketh | (but again not this week unless somebody else wants it) | 19:17 |
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| clarkb | if I hvae time to poke at it I will let you know | 19:17 |
| clarkb | I am still in weird state of not knowing how much time I actually have t oget things done | 19:18 |
| jhesketh | Also there were a few tricky parts which is why we generated the indexes at upload time rather than on the fly | 19:18 |
| jeblair | anyone else want it? relatively standalone python hacking thing | 19:18 |
| jeblair | jhesketh: yeah, i think that makes sense for the jobs, but outside of that, i'm pretty sure we need osla to do it | 19:18 |
| jhesketh | For example how to things that are half on disk and swift | 19:18 |
| jeblair | at least, this is one of the big questions we had for swift folks early on -- would it be able to handle these kinds of queries | 19:18 |
| jeblair | and i think the answer from them was "try it, it should work" | 19:19 |
| jeblair | jhesketh: yep; i think osla can figure that out too | 19:19 |
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| jhesketh | Yeah there's a few things we can do | 19:20 |
| jeblair | #action jhesketh/clarkb have os-loganalyze generate indexes for directories which lack them | 19:20 |
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| jeblair | i'd still love it if someone else volunteered for that ^ :) talk to jhesketh and clarkb if you want it | 19:21 |
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| jeblair | #topic Priority Efforts (Nodepool DIB) | 19:21 |
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| *** openstack changes topic to "Priority Efforts (Nodepool DIB) (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:21 | |
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| jeblair | who knows about this one? | 19:22 |
| fungi | the bindep bits of this are basically ready i think | 19:22 |
| clarkb | I'm not sure where the larger state of things is here but I want to note that I had a 100% image upload failure rate to rax when I tried to do that recently. Get an error 396 from the api in a jsob blob | 19:22 |
| fungi | though i discovered that diskimage-builder really, really doesn't like to preserve distro package caches | 19:22 |
| jeblair | fungi: awesome! | 19:22 |
| jeblair | fungi: has that been solved? | 19:22 |
| fungi | greghaynes apparently solved it a while back for the dpkg provider by giving us a toggle to turn off cache cleanup which i enabled a week or two ago, but this is still unsolved for the yum element | 19:23 |
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| fungi | i haven't had time to refactor its avoid-package-caching-at-all-costs bits so that they can hide behind an envvar | 19:23 |
| fungi | but that would be consistent with the fix in the dpkg element at least | 19:23 |
| clarkb | (I find this slighly funny because yum is so slow >_>) | 19:24 |
| clarkb | fungi: do we hvae to do it for the new fedora package manager too? | 19:24 |
| jeblair | fungi: do you still want to do that or see if anyone else wants it? | 19:24 |
| clarkb | we should get someone familiar with that to weigh in and make sure we don't have yum preserving cahces just to have dnf nuke it | 19:24 |
| fungi | if someone else has time that would be a pretty trivial patch, it's all bourne shell | 19:24 |
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| jeblair | anyone ^? | 19:24 |
| ianw | i can take a look | 19:25 |
| fungi | well, s/trivial patch/neatly self contained task/ | 19:25 |
| jeblair | woo! | 19:25 |
| fungi | thanks ianw! | 19:25 |
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| jeblair | #action ianw update yum dib element to support disabling cache cleanup | 19:25 |
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| fungi | anyway, i have nova unit tests passing with the bindep fallback list on our minimal ubuntu-trusty workers via an experimental job | 19:26 |
| jeblair | fungi: what else do we need to do to start using bindep? | 19:26 |
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| fungi | and am testing the addition of a custom bindep list in nova itself just to confirm that bit of the macro workes | 19:26 |
| fungi | er, works | 19:26 |
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| fungi | we still need minimal workers for anything we have bare-.* right now (precise is all that's left i think?) | 19:27 |
| jeblair | #info fungi testing bindep machinery with nova | 19:27 |
| fungi | and should do some similar tests on one of our centos-6 dib-built workers | 19:27 |
| fungi | and then we need to migrate/replace the jobs | 19:27 |
| fungi | i believe mordred demonstrated an experimental job with devstack/tempest working on ubuntu-trusty instead of devstack-trusty | 19:28 |
| fungi | but last i heard multinode was still in a questionable state on those? | 19:28 |
| fungi | are the glean/hostname issues ironed out now? | 19:28 |
| clarkb | iirc they got smoke jobs working | 19:28 |
| clarkb | so need to switch to the full tempest runs and retest then we can switch | 19:29 |
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| clarkb | I cna write the patch to do that switch | 19:29 |
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| clarkb | sorry the switch to full tempest | 19:29 |
| mordred | o hai | 19:30 |
| jeblair | what's the delta for us being fully-dib (regardless of whether we're using minimal or traditional images) | 19:30 |
| fungi | but yeah, moving jobs off devstack-.* is apparently a step for this now, unless someone can get dib-built devstack-.* images uploading into rax successfully | 19:30 |
| clarkb | the glean/hostname issues should all be worked out as of yesterday (thank you pleia2 for approving that change) | 19:30 |
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| jeblair | fungi: oh i guess that's a partial answer to my question? :) | 19:30 |
| mordred | fungi: I recommend against that | 19:30 |
| mordred | the second thing | 19:30 |
| mordred | moving jobs off devstack-* and on to the others is the next step | 19:30 |
| fungi | so i think it's either get glean integration for our devstack-.* images or move devstack-.* based jobs to the new glean-using images | 19:30 |
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| clarkb | mordred: fungi ewll the rax dib built image issue is a problem in either case right? | 19:31 |
| jeblair | we are uploading minimial images to rax, right? | 19:31 |
| mordred | clarkb: yes | 19:31 |
| clarkb | jeblair: not reliably no | 19:31 |
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| fungi | i think the raw image size is biting us | 19:31 |
| clarkb | jeblair: and by not reliably I mean when I tried it I got 100% failure rate | 19:31 |
| jeblair | okay, so we're getting way ahead of ourselves | 19:31 |
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| jeblair | step 1 is: get images uploaded to rax | 19:32 |
| fungi | and apparently transparent image conversion in glance was a fakeout. the facade is there but the plumbing was missing (i think that's in the process of being nailed down now?) | 19:32 |
| jeblair | (that's the end of my list) | 19:32 |
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| fungi | dib image uploads to rax _were_ working last i checked | 19:32 |
| fungi | we just need glean instead of cloud-init and nova-agent | 19:33 |
| mordred | yah - I'm confused as to what broke - but I've been on vacation - I'll try to engage on that again tomorrow | 19:33 |
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| fungi | yeah, i see ubuntu-trusty images ready in rax as of ~4.5 hours ago | 19:33 |
| clarkb | we are anywhere from one hour to 24 days old on those images | 19:33 |
| fungi | abd centos-6 as well | 19:33 |
| fungi | er, and | 19:33 |
| clarkb | fungi: its highly unreliable | 19:33 |
| fungi | okay, i haven't been watching it closely so i don't know whether today's a fluke | 19:34 |
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| clarkb | centos6 is 1-3 days old | 19:34 |
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| clarkb | mordred: retty sure its error 396 | 19:35 |
| clarkb | which means rax failed | 19:35 |
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| fungi | clarkb: oh, yep, i keep forgetting the age column format changed to include days | 19:35 |
| jeblair | 1) investigate problem uploading images to rax 2) ensure we have minimal images of all operating systems 3) move jobs to use those images 4) drop snapshot and non-minimal-dib images from nodepool | 19:36 |
| fungi | so these images are random numbers of days old | 19:36 |
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| jeblair | is that the plan ^ | 19:36 |
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| clarkb | jeblair: sounds good to me | 19:36 |
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| jeblair | #info a plan: 1) investigate problem uploading images to rax 2) ensure we have minimal images of all operating systems 3) move jobs to use those images 4) drop snapshot and non-minimal-dib images from nodepool | 19:36 |
| fungi | and yeah, i think the last theory i heard is that we're possibly either overhwelming the nodepool.o.o interface when uploading them all in parallel or we're running afoul of some upload throttle on the provider end | 19:37 |
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| jeblair | #action mordred investigate problem uploading images to rax | 19:37 |
| jeblair | fungi: i thought we uploaded in series | 19:37 |
| fungi | because when i test manually i can upload, but that's just one upload | 19:37 |
| jeblair | oh | 19:37 |
| clarkb | jeblair: we do | 19:37 |
| jeblair | greghaynes was going to look into the nodepool dib worker....? | 19:37 |
| clarkb | but its 16GB/chunk size uploaded in parallel iirc | 19:37 |
| jeblair | am i remembering correctly? | 19:37 |
| clarkb | maybe we can force that to be serial too? | 19:37 |
| fungi | hrm, then i guess it's not parallel uploads, unless something's gone wrong with our upload serialization | 19:38 |
| mordred | jeblair: if it's error 396 - we just need to retry the glance import | 19:38 |
| mordred | jeblair: and I either wrote a patch for that or thought about it | 19:38 |
| clarkb | jeblair: yes he is vacationing but has a working poc that runs worker on same host as nodepool daemon | 19:38 |
| fungi | oh, right, chunk parallelization not image parallelization | 19:38 |
| clarkb | jeblair: iirc next step or that is to make it not depend on the database | 19:38 |
| jeblair | clarkb: cool | 19:38 |
| fungi | it's funny how all these seemingly unrelated projects are so intertwined | 19:38 |
| jeblair | #info greghaynes working on nodepool image build worker, poc in progress | 19:38 |
| jeblair | okay, i think we've synced up enough on this, at least, enough to know where we need to sync up more later. | 19:39 |
| jeblair | #topic Priority Efforts (Migration to Zanata) | 19:39 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Priority Efforts (Migration to Zanata) (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:39 | |
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| jeblair | how's it going with the i18n team? | 19:39 |
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| AJaeger | team is slowly signing up. | 19:39 |
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| pleia2 | and they've been providing feedback that we | 19:40 |
| pleia2 | 're processing: https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/zanata-feedback | 19:40 |
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| pleia2 | most of it is not really infra-specific, the service seems to run well, just evaluation of zanata itself and expectations around what it's supposed to do | 19:40 |
| jeblair | pleia2: any (a) infra potential-blockers or (b) zanata-itself potential-blockers? | 19:41 |
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| pleia2 | I think it's generally going well, I hope to sync up with people on list about the issues that have been raised to make sure we're closing all the feedback loops | 19:41 |
| pleia2 | there are two major infra things outstanding | 19:41 |
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| pleia2 | 1. the upstream wildfly module is in heavy development on github, we should look at upgrading ours before a solid launch of the service | 19:42 |
| jeblair | #info zanata trial underway with i18n team | 19:42 |
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| jeblair | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/zanata-feedback | 19:42 |
| clarkb | pleia2: the upstream puppet module? | 19:42 |
| pleia2 | 2. thanks to nibalizer we now have the puppet-community/archive module on all our servers, which makes handling download, unzip, install a less horrible process, so we should use this for installing the server and client | 19:42 |
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| pleia2 | clarkb: yep | 19:43 |
| jeblair | pleia2: those both sound tractable! | 19:43 |
| pleia2 | #1 just needs testing of our deployment with the newer version, #2 needs me to rewrite our module to use archive | 19:43 |
| pleia2 | totally, we're doing well | 19:43 |
| fungi | i wonder if we could reapply that method to some other modules we have installing things from tarballs | 19:43 |
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| jeblair | what's the status of the "admins can make languages but we want our scripts to do it and not have admins" issue? | 19:44 |
| pleia2 | fungi: yes | 19:44 |
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| jeblair | fungi: i read that as 'installing from terribles' | 19:44 |
| mordred | pleia2, nibalizer: should we take that archive work back out in to our other things that do a similar process? | 19:44 |
| mordred | oh | 19:44 |
| mordred | fungi: jinx | 19:44 |
| fungi | jeblair: i thought it as "memories of slackware" | 19:44 |
| pleia2 | jeblair: not "fixed" but our infra user now creates things and ultimately it's not a blocker, we're trying to just ignore it for now and tell the admins to behave | 19:45 |
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| nibalizer | mordred: yes | 19:45 |
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| pleia2 | and infra user uses the api via scripts | 19:45 |
| jeblair | pleia2: what do we still have admins for? | 19:45 |
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| nibalizer | getting away from exec { 'curl something': unless => 'something } is nice | 19:45 |
| nibalizer | much more robust code | 19:45 |
| clarkb | worth noting I saw an email from transifex about some largish changes on their end. This may affect us. Does anyone know if we ar eaffected? | 19:45 |
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| pleia2 | jeblair: adding new users to translations teams, admins have all kinds of powers that aren't grandular | 19:45 |
| pleia2 | the translations team doesn't yet have a coordinator for every language, so an admin is needed to get people added where they belong | 19:46 |
| jeblair | ok | 19:46 |
| AJaeger | clarkb: I looked at it and it looked not related to us at all. let's see | 19:46 |
| pleia2 | AJaeger just brought that up to Daisy in an email earlier today | 19:46 |
| fungi | pleia2: are those things that could conceivably driven from configuration management eventually? | 19:46 |
| pleia2 | that == list of coordinators | 19:46 |
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| clarkb | AJaeger: they said paths were changing which I think may affect our use of the client and api? | 19:46 |
| pleia2 | fungi: not sure yet | 19:46 |
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| AJaeger | clarkb: I thought it was only for the glossary which we do not use | 19:47 |
| crinkle | ++ for archive instead of exec | 19:47 |
| clarkb | AJaeger: oh gotcha | 19:47 |
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| AJaeger | clarkb: but if *every* path changes, we might need a new transifex - since we only communicate with the client. | 19:48 |
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| AJaeger | new transifex *client* I mean | 19:48 |
| jeblair | i mean, we do need a new transifex, we just call it zanata | 19:48 |
| jeblair | ;) | 19:48 |
| pleia2 | hehe | 19:48 |
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| jeblair | on that note | 19:48 |
| jeblair | #topic Priority Efforts (Downstream Puppet) | 19:48 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Priority Efforts (Downstream Puppet) (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:48 | |
| yolanda | nibalizer, i wanted to talk with you about the boilerplate changes | 19:49 |
| nibalizer | yolanda: okay | 19:49 |
| yolanda | i see too much code repeated on each puppet project | 19:49 |
| AJaeger | jeblair: for sure! | 19:49 |
| yolanda | can we have it on a better way? | 19:49 |
| jeblair | asselin isn't here to talk about the openstackci part; but last i heard, it was pretty close and needed a sample manifest | 19:49 |
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| nibalizer | jeblair: thats correct | 19:49 |
| nibalizer | there is a sample manifest up for review from asselin | 19:49 |
| nibalizer | the puppet-httpd stuff is done or almost done | 19:50 |
| jeblair | and elsewhere, tons of changes in flight to refactor stuff out of system-config | 19:50 |
| nibalizer | I have a big set of simple patches https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:open+puppet+message:beaker,n,z | 19:50 |
| yolanda | for nodepool, there is a chain of patches pending to land as well | 19:50 |
| nibalizer | follow-on from puppet-httpd stuff will remove conditional logic added to make the transition possible | 19:50 |
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| jeblair | nibalizer: are we ready to start doing any public hiera stuff? | 19:50 |
| yolanda | there is some -1 for puppet_os_client_config | 19:50 |
| nibalizer | jeblair: ya | 19:50 |
| nibalizer | and I'd like to enable beaker tests on all infra modules (nonvoting) right now they don't run | 19:51 |
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| clarkb | (did we get zuul cloner + beaker figured out?) | 19:51 |
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| pabelanger | I would mind some help reviewing open patches for fedora22: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/203729 | 19:51 |
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| nibalizer | clarkb: we did | 19:51 |
| pabelanger | bumping puppet-ntp to newer version | 19:51 |
| jeblair | are the openstackci patches | 19:52 |
| jeblair | er | 19:52 |
| jeblair | are the openstackci beaker jobs working again? | 19:52 |
| nibalizer | jeblair: no I think we have NOT_REGISTERED again/still | 19:52 |
| pabelanger | I have fixes for some of that | 19:52 |
| nibalizer | pabelanger: jeblair an explicit goal for us should be to update our versions of common libraries: mysql, stdlib, ntp, postgres etc | 19:52 |
| jeblair | nibalizer: they were registered, but they were failing because we were missing a build-dep; i made a patch for that which merged | 19:53 |
| pabelanger | the NOT_REGISTERED is for a centos / fedora node. Which, is just waiting for +A | 19:53 |
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| jeblair | nibalizer: why do we want to upgrade those libraries now? | 19:53 |
| pabelanger | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/205668/ is review | 19:53 |
| jeblair | nibalizer: can that wait until we accomplish some of the other outstanding work? | 19:53 |
| nibalizer | jeblair: yea we can wait on it | 19:54 |
| AJaeger | jeblair: gate-infra-puppet-apply-devstack-centos7 is still NOT_REGISTERED | 19:54 |
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| nibalizer | jeblair: I feel a need, to be 'ready' for infra cloud | 19:54 |
| pabelanger | AJaeger: patchset I linked fixes that | 19:54 |
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| jeblair | pabelanger: that's puppet-apply, not beaker | 19:54 |
| nibalizer | I expect at some point crinkle or spamaps will be like 'okay lets add the puppet-openstack stuff to system-config' and we'll run into module incompatiblity on those libraries | 19:54 |
| jeblair | which is still important | 19:55 |
| crinkle | if we have masterless puppet working then there's less need to have modules updated for infra cloud | 19:55 |
| pabelanger | AJaeger: you linked the puppet-apply job | 19:55 |
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| pabelanger | AJaeger: oops | 19:55 |
| nibalizer | now we've discussed this before, and a number of workarounds have been suggested, but I think the best thing is to just get our stuff current | 19:55 |
| crinkle | and iirc mordred was hoping to have masterless puppet first/soonish | 19:55 |
| mordred | yes. I want masterless puppet. I got busy. I'm sorry! | 19:55 |
| pabelanger | jeblair: right. I looked at a beaker today, seemed like it worked | 19:55 |
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| crinkle | nibalizer: even if we get modules updated there are bound to be some kind of incompatibility with the openstack modules and the infra modules | 19:56 |
| jeblair | #action nibalizer add beaker jobs to modules | 19:56 |
| jeblair | #action nibalizer make openstackci beaker voting if it's working (we think it is) | 19:56 |
| jeblair | nibalizer: ^ i took a liberty there :) | 19:56 |
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| pabelanger | nibalizer: Ya, I want to get them upgraded too. | 19:56 |
| greghaynes | While im doing a bad job of vacationing - yep, ive been messing with nodepool dib workers, ive gotten it pretty far along with nodepool spawning workers when it launches and having upload and build triggered by gearman. I also noticed that out ubuntu-trusty images in rax are not resizing to use the fool disk space which was causing our devstack tests to fail on them. | 19:57 |
| nibalizer | jeblair: right now the testing is quite cowardly... I'm not sure if you'd rather a coward vote or a hero nonvote | 19:57 |
| pabelanger | nibalizer: maybe a periodic job to test master modules too (or something) | 19:57 |
| jeblair | i don't think upgrading for the sake of upgrading is our highest priority | 19:57 |
| greghaynes | (sorry for the out of context) | 19:57 |
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| clarkb | jeblair: I agree | 19:57 |
| nibalizer | jeblair: thats fair | 19:57 |
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| jeblair | i'd much rather get things like masterless puppet, in-tree hiera, real testing, etc. in place, then upgrade either when we need to or run out of other things to do :) | 19:58 |
| nibalizer | yea | 19:58 |
| yolanda | ++ | 19:58 |
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| jeblair | nibalizer: coward vote and expand as it becomes less... cowardly | 19:58 |
| pabelanger | upgrade for me, are to add fedora22 support. Mind you, only a few modules right now that are lacking it | 19:58 |
| nibalizer | #action nibalizer create first in-tree hiera patchset | 19:58 |
| nibalizer | oh i cant do that | 19:58 |
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| jeblair | #undo | 19:58 |
| openstack | Removing item from minutes: <ircmeeting.items.Action object at 0xad8f290> | 19:58 |
| jeblair | nibalizer: why not? | 19:59 |
| yolanda | i could take it if i get some background | 19:59 |
| jeblair | (that made me really happy) | 19:59 |
| nibalizer | oh i thouht no-response from the bot meant I didn't have bot-acls to add it | 19:59 |
| jeblair | (and undoing it made me really sad) | 19:59 |
| pabelanger | if mordred has script going, I can help with masterless puppet launcher. | 19:59 |
| nibalizer | i'm happy to do that work it only about ~5 minutes | 19:59 |
| jeblair | nibalizer: oh, you can totally do that | 19:59 |
| jeblair | #action nibalizer create first in-tree hiera patchset | 19:59 |
| jeblair | it never responds to actions, links, infos | 19:59 |
| nibalizer | ahhh | 20:00 |
| jeblair | cool, we're out of time, but i think we got through all the priority things | 20:00 |
| nibalizer | woot | 20:00 |
| jeblair | backlog next week | 20:00 |
| jeblair | thanks everyone, especially those i put on the spot today! :) | 20:00 |
| jeblair | #endmeeting | 20:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "BP (Meeting topic: tricircle)" | 20:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Jul 28 20:00:35 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 20:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2015/infra.2015-07-28-19.01.html | 20:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2015/infra.2015-07-28-19.01.txt | 20:00 |
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| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2015/infra.2015-07-28-19.01.log.html | 20:00 |
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| flaper87 | o/ | 20:00 |
| markmcclain | o/ | 20:01 |
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| jeblair | ttx: pls hold on meeting start | 20:01 |
| *** olaph has left #openstack-meeting | 20:01 | |
| ttx | holding | 20:01 |
| *** ChanServ changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 20:01 | |
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| jeblair | ttx: all clear, thx | 20:01 |
| ttx | Anyone here for the TC meeting ? | 20:01 |
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| mordred | o/ | 20:02 |
| flaper87 | o/ | 20:02 |
| jeblair | o/ | 20:02 |
| * mordred is also in board meeting - so will be laggy | 20:02 | |
| dhellmann | o/ | 20:02 |
| lifeless | o/ | 20:02 |
| russellb | o/ kind of | 20:02 |
| edleafe | o/ | 20:02 |
| annegentle | here | 20:02 |
| fungi | jeblair: i fixed the topic in -3 just now as well | 20:02 |
| sdague | o/ | 20:02 |
| fungi | so they're all set again | 20:02 |
| jeblair | fungi: thx | 20:02 |
| annegentle | how are you kind of here russellb :) | 20:02 |
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| * flaper87 wonders where long-arms-jaypipes is | 20:02 | |
| redrobot | o/ | 20:03 |
| dougwig | flaper87: long-arms? | 20:03 |
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| ttx | jgriffith, dtroyer, markmcclain, jaypipes: around ? | 20:03 |
| edleafe | flaper87: he said he had an all-day meeting today | 20:03 |
| markmcclain | still here :) | 20:03 |
| ttx | #startmeeting tc | 20:03 |
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| openstack | Meeting started Tue Jul 28 20:03:30 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is ttx. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 20:03 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 20:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:03 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'tc' | 20:03 |
| flaper87 | edleafe: aww :( | 20:03 |
| ttx | markmcclain: doh! | 20:03 |
| * flaper87 is back | 20:03 | |
| ttx | Our agenda for today: | 20:03 |
| edleafe | flaper87: maybe he'll peek in at some point | 20:03 |
| ttx | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/TechnicalCommittee | 20:03 |
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| ttx | #topic Add Stackforge Namespace Retirement resolution | 20:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Add Stackforge Namespace Retirement resolution (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:04 | |
| ttx | #link https://review.openstack.org/192016 | 20:04 |
| ttx | I think we are getting nearer with the latest version of this resolution | 20:04 |
| ttx | No more objections from my side... anyone else ? | 20:04 |
| ttx | if not, review could use MOAR votes | 20:04 |
| jeblair | ++votes | 20:04 |
| sdague | +R | 20:05 |
| ttx | 2 more and we can pass it in-meeting | 20:05 |
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| sdague | ok, so moving on? seems like votes can tally when they tally | 20:05 |
| * devananda lurks | 20:05 | |
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| jeblair | btw, the pecan folks have decided to leave regardless of this (related to CLA issues and our platform support) | 20:06 |
| ttx | sure | 20:06 |
| jeblair | it's a friendly parting | 20:06 |
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| ttx | but we are at 7 so I guess we can approve it now | 20:06 |
| sdague | I guess that's a question, does everything in openstack need CLA check box? | 20:06 |
| jeblair | sdague: pecan actually does not | 20:06 |
| jeblair | have it now | 20:06 |
| sdague | jeblair: right, we never required it on stackforge | 20:06 |
| jeblair | but it's pretty impossible to convey that to a contributor | 20:07 |
| ttx | approved | 20:07 |
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| ttx | #topic Introduce the "deliverables" concept | 20:07 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Introduce the "deliverables" concept (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:07 | |
| sdague | jeblair: I was more thinking after the namespace is gone | 20:07 |
| dhellmann | jeblair: is it possible to activate a gerrit account without signing the cla? | 20:07 |
| ttx | #link https://review.openstack.org/202583 | 20:07 |
| jeblair | sdague: ack dhellmann: yes | 20:07 |
| ttx | I refreshed this one yesterday based on the current repository status | 20:07 |
| flaper87 | jeblair: cool! | 20:07 |
| dhellmann | jeblair: ok, cool, I never tried :-) | 20:07 |
| ttx | And added the related tooling changes so that it passes tests | 20:07 |
| ttx | So it should be ready for adoption, before it gets into further merge conflicts | 20:07 |
| ttx | (Note that I'll update the other changes that will get wedged by this change merging) | 20:07 |
| ttx | so that would be great to mertge it now before it gets out of date again, if you agree with it | 20:08 |
| dhellmann | ++ | 20:08 |
| * flaper87 has no objections | 20:08 | |
| sdague | ttx: so... that seems like a giant list to be kept accurate by TC, I think my only concern is I'd like to figure out a way that we're not handling 4 updates to projects.yaml every meeting | 20:08 |
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| ttx | more updates to projects.yaml happen off-meeting | 20:09 |
| dhellmann | I think we really only need to approve additions or removals to the list, right? | 20:09 |
| lifeless | I'd like to make project based updates to project.yaml be single-+2A | 20:09 |
| ttx | lifeless: they are "one week, no objection" | 20:09 |
| sdague | like, what's there is fine, but I'm mostly not going to vote on random changes on project.yaml in the future | 20:09 |
| lifeless | 'neutron added a repo' isn't something we conceptually vote on | 20:09 |
| annegentle | sdague: yeah | 20:09 |
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| dhellmann | lifeless: we have to be careful, because adding repos == adding voters, and we want to make sure we're doing that appropriately | 20:09 |
| ttx | lifeless: you don't | 20:09 |
| lifeless | ttx: k | 20:09 |
| jeblair | 20:09 | |
| jeblair | Once a project has joined OpenStack, it may create additional source code repositories as needed at the discretion of its Project Team Lead (PTL) without prior approval from the TC as long as the additional source code repositories fall within the scope of the approved project mission statement. | 20:09 |
| jeblair | lifeless: ^ http://governance.openstack.org/reference/new-projects-requirements.html | 20:10 |
| flaper87 | didn't we agree on letting some of this addition mature for a week and approve without meeting if no objections were raised ? | 20:10 |
| ttx | sdague: I actually handle most projects.yaml changes after letting them mature for a week unless there are objections | 20:10 |
| lifeless | jeblair: yes, exactly | 20:10 |
| ttx | (as long as the PTL approves it) | 20:10 |
| sdague | ttx: so... can you tag all those procedural ones with ProceduralChange or something | 20:10 |
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| lifeless | jeblair: what I mean is that the land-the-metadata-change-mechanics shouldn't require multiple votes from the TC | 20:10 |
| sdague | so that I can filter it out of my reviews | 20:10 |
| ttx | sdague: tag them ? | 20:10 |
| lifeless | jeblair: and it sounds like we've already established that | 20:10 |
| sdague | add a thing to the commit message | 20:10 |
| flaper87 | ttx: commit-tag | 20:10 |
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| ttx | sdague: sure, I could do that | 20:11 |
| jeblair | well, 202583 is worth voting on, right? we're introducing a concept? | 20:11 |
| sdague | ttx: cool | 20:11 |
| ttx | jeblair: yes | 20:11 |
| sdague | jeblair: yes | 20:11 |
| lifeless | jeblair: yes, of course | 20:11 |
| sdague | but now there is a ton of data in there, so I wanted to make sure keeping that data fresh is more expedited in the future | 20:12 |
| jeblair | ttx, sdague: how about a topic so it doesn't require a patchset update? | 20:12 |
| flaper87 | jeblair: that works too | 20:12 |
| sdague | anything I can build a gerrit filter for, I'm happy | 20:12 |
| dhellmann | jeblair: ++ | 20:12 |
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| ttx | jeblair: something like project-update | 20:12 |
| sdague | mechanism unimport to me beyond that | 20:12 |
| ttx | or not-a-vote | 20:12 |
| ttx | #action ttx to pick a topic name to tag all things that don't require a formal TC vote | 20:13 |
| sdague | ttx: thanks | 20:13 |
| ttx | (a.k.a. "project list updates") | 20:13 |
| ttx | sdague: we already had those, there was just no way to quickly tell them apart | 20:13 |
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| ttx | that will help with building the meeting agenda too. | 20:13 |
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| lifeless | sdague: devstack tags - how about 'internal/external' or someting ? | 20:14 |
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| ttx | lifeless: next topic | 20:14 |
| lifeless | ttx: yes :) | 20:14 |
| ttx | Since we generate a giant merge conflict with that one anyway, I propose we fast-track the alphabetical reorder | 20:14 |
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| ttx | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/206460/ | 20:14 |
| ttx | it's a no-vote change | 20:14 |
| dhellmann | +1 | 20:14 |
| ttx | will approve now unless someone screams BAD IDEA | 20:14 |
| * flaper87 voted anyway | 20:15 | |
| lifeless | doit | 20:15 |
| jeblair | good idea. i'm pretty much just going to trust that's right. | 20:15 |
| sdague | ttx: it would be good to add tooling to enforce it stats alphabetic later | 20:15 |
| sdague | andreas did some of that for infra files | 20:15 |
| jeblair | sdague, ttx: there's some tooling in project-config you can borrow | 20:15 |
| ttx | sdague: good idea | 20:15 |
| sdague | jeblair: yep ++ | 20:15 |
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| ttx | #action ttx to rebase all current patches on top of his giant change | 20:16 |
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| ttx | there might be off-governance tooling that will be caught unaware of the projects.yaml format change. Let me know if you spot any | 20:16 |
| dhellmann | there are a couple of scripts in release-tools, but I can fix those tomorrow | 20:16 |
| ttx | fungi: the election roll tooling will likely need an update | 20:16 |
| ttx | ok, next topic | 20:17 |
| ttx | #topic Add devstack tags | 20:17 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Add devstack tags (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:17 | |
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| ttx | #link https://review.openstack.org/203785 | 20:17 |
| fungi | thanks ttx | 20:17 |
| ttx | sdague: care to introduce this/these ? | 20:17 |
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| sdague | sure, so basically it seemed useful to actually annotate what projects have facilities to come up in devstack | 20:17 |
| sdague | be it in the devstack tree, or via our published plugin interface | 20:18 |
| sdague | the whole conversation started on the mailing list earlier this month | 20:18 |
| annegentle | I like the integration:thing-its-integrating-with | 20:18 |
| sdague | I think the tag(s) are pretty self explanatory, naming is a thing | 20:18 |
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| ttx | sdague: there is the open question of the value of having seperate tags for mainline and plugin | 20:19 |
| sdague | yeh, integration: seems fine | 20:19 |
| flaper87 | would it be enough to just have devstack:plugin-name ? | 20:19 |
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| flaper87 | instead of distinguishing between upstream/downstream | 20:19 |
| ttx | based on the rationale ("Knowing which components are easily brought up in [devstack] environment") I'm not sure it needs the distinction | 20:20 |
| sdague | flaper87: how would you tag keystone in that way? | 20:20 |
| jeblair | so the one-tag variant is something like: "integration:devstack" says "this thing works with devstack", and if you want to know how, you can check the docs... | 20:20 |
| flaper87 | sdague: plugin-name would be whatever you use to enable it in devstack | 20:20 |
| lifeless | I quite like that | 20:20 |
| lifeless | do people actually ask about *how* ? | 20:20 |
| ttx | jeblair: I fear that it puts pressure on devstack people to get things mainline, while we push the other way around | 20:20 |
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| sdague | flaper87: so, for nova, you don't have a single thing like that | 20:20 |
| jeblair | ttx: oh, but "integration:devstack" applies to plugins too | 20:21 |
| lifeless | as-in, do we negatively affect people if we don't document the plugin/included status ? | 20:21 |
| flaper87 | sdague: could we have one? AFAIK (please correct me) most projects do | 20:21 |
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| flaper87 | s/we/it/ | 20:21 |
| sdague | honestly, specifying it's a plugin | 20:21 |
| sdague | is kind of useful to people | 20:21 |
| ttx | jeblair: right | 20:21 |
| sdague | but, that's from a devstack support perspective | 20:21 |
| sdague | and I also imagined who acks the patch is different in the 2 cases | 20:21 |
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| sdague | because project cores should be able to ack the fact that they have a bit now | 20:22 |
| flaper87 | I kinda think we should now have a repo to keep track of devstack plugins + urls (or something like that) | 20:22 |
| lifeless | well | 20:22 |
| dhellmann | how about one tag that means there is any form of integration, and another tag that says the integration is not built into devstack itself? | 20:22 |
| flaper87 | but that's basically what this tag is for | 20:22 |
| annegentle | lifeless: the negative effect being what though? | 20:22 |
| ttx | I could go either way | 20:22 |
| * flaper87 just thought this through a bit better | 20:22 | |
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| lifeless | maybe devstack could lookup the repo based on the name and pull it in automagically. But thats a devstack dev question. | 20:23 |
| lifeless | annegentle: well - like sdague said | 20:23 |
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| jeblair | lifeless: it just about already does that | 20:23 |
| markmcclain | ttx: I've got to head out for a presentation... if a real time vote pops up today... dhellmann can proxy for me | 20:23 |
| ttx | markmcclain: ack | 20:24 |
| * dhellmann gets out a second keyboard | 20:24 | |
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| sdague | right, personally, I'd feel more comfortable if it was 2 tags because of the support question. Because the amount of devstack plugins exceeds the number of things in the devstack tree, and would like to prevent tears prematurely when people ask me why their opendaylight doesn't work in devstack (for instance) | 20:25 |
| annegentle | "There's no crying in baseball!" | 20:25 |
| annegentle | right sdague I see what you mean. | 20:25 |
| ttx | If we get the plugins discoverable from devstack, I don't think the extra information saying "as a plugin" is worth it | 20:25 |
| lifeless | but they aren't todau | 20:25 |
| dhellmann | I see this as sort of parallel to the release tags, where we have a "managed" tag and several "model" tags | 20:25 |
| lifeless | so lets refactor if/when it is | 20:25 |
| sdague | right, but that then means that devstack needs to maintain an authoritative registry | 20:25 |
| sdague | which, sort of goes against the whole big tent thing | 20:26 |
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| lifeless | sdague: well no - it could infer from the name | 20:26 |
| sdague | I was actually trying to push this out to the edges | 20:26 |
| sdague | lifeless: some times | 20:26 |
| ttx | sdague: if it doesn't (or won't in the near future) then I agree that "as a plugin" is valuable piece of info | 20:26 |
| flaper87 | and which is part of what this tag tries to address | 20:26 |
| dhellmann | so if there's an "integration:devstack" tag to indicate support at all, and then a "devstack:external-plugin" tag to indicate that the code doesn't live in devstack, I think we'd express everything | 20:26 |
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| jeblair | i'm just thinking back to the "tags replacing docs" thing, and documenting the specific mechanism you use to devstack something seems to have crossed the line from "new user browsing the software site" to "deployer actually trying to run commands" | 20:26 |
| flaper87 | I think it's a valuable info now | 20:26 |
| flaper87 | it might not be needed anymore in the future | 20:26 |
| sdague | jeblair: maybe | 20:26 |
| ttx | jeblair: yeah | 20:27 |
| sdague | *a lot* of people bring up devstack to test things | 20:27 |
| sdague | it's actually the first experience a lot of users have with openstack | 20:27 |
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| ttx | jeblair: maybe "there is a way to run in devstack" is enough as far as tags are concerned | 20:27 |
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| sdague | ttx and then when they ask "and that way is... " | 20:28 |
| sdague | where do they go? | 20:28 |
| annegentle | does devstack integration indicate any test integration? | 20:28 |
| ttx | sdague: if they don't find it mainline, they look for a plugin? | 20:28 |
| sdague | ttx: and how do they look for that? | 20:28 |
| flaper87 | the thing is that even when the 'as-plugin' info, they won't know exactly | 20:28 |
| dhellmann | ttx: I'm not sure new users would know about plugins as a thing | 20:28 |
| jeblair | annegentle: hopefully? most of the projects with plugins should run devstack tests on them | 20:28 |
| flaper87 | because there are plugins outside repos anyway | 20:28 |
| ttx | sdague: devstack:as-plugin doesn't exactly point to a repo either | 20:28 |
| flaper87 | I mean, devstack plugins in their own repos | 20:28 |
| sdague | ttx: yes it does, it's the repo that's tagged | 20:29 |
| annegentle | jeblair: ok | 20:29 |
| dhellmann | sdague: if I was looking, frankly I would look at the devstack docs, so I wonder if there should just be a registry there | 20:29 |
| ttx | sdague: is it ? | 20:29 |
| sdague | ttx: yes | 20:29 |
| annegentle | dhellmann: sdague: you could also look at the tag list and say, "Oh, I should work on devstack integration" | 20:29 |
| sdague | sorry if that wasn't clear | 20:29 |
| dhellmann | I'm not sure it's any more of a burden to keep the docs up to date than the governance list | 20:29 |
| * ttx reads deeper | 20:29 | |
| flaper87 | sdague: how would that tag work for https://github.com/openstack/devstack-plugin-zmq ? | 20:29 |
| * flaper87 confused now | 20:30 | |
| sdague | I'm so knee deep in this, I forget what people don't know | 20:30 |
| dhellmann | annegentle: yeah, that's why I think it's useful to have an integration:devstack tag | 20:30 |
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| sdague | like openstack/trove => integration:devstack-plugin | 20:30 |
| dhellmann | sdague: we just approved a patch that moved tags from repos to deliverables | 20:30 |
| ttx | sdague: ok, I thought they might live in a specific repo, but if they are always bundled with the code... that works | 20:31 |
| flaper87 | how would that tag work for https://github.com/openstack/devstack-plugin-zmq ? | 20:31 |
| sdague | ttx: they can also live off in other repos | 20:31 |
| dhellmann | sdague: is that always true? I thought the oslo.messaging stuff ended up in its own repository? | 20:31 |
| lifeless | so is each neutron aas plugined separately? | 20:31 |
| dhellmann | flaper87: right, that | 20:31 |
| sdague | lifeless: yes, they will be | 20:31 |
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| ttx | sdague: then the tag applies to the devstack plugin ? or the code that has devstack integration ? | 20:31 |
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| lifeless | so this tag is going to be repo then, not deliverable | 20:31 |
| flaper87 | oslo.messaging has several drivers and plugins for each | 20:31 |
| flaper87 | these plugins live outside the repo | 20:32 |
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| ttx | lifeless: there are no such things anymore | 20:32 |
| flaper87 | and there's also an in-repo plugin, IIRC | 20:32 |
| lifeless | ttx: and yet | 20:32 |
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| sdague | so, for stuff that lives outside the repo, I don't know. I was thinking about this in terms of "I want to use designate, does it come up"? | 20:32 |
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| ttx | lifeless: hence my question, I think the "has devstack integration" tag should apply to the thing that has devstack integration, which may be multiple repos | 20:32 |
| ttx | not to the thing that contains devstack plugin code | 20:33 |
| dhellmann | I understand that we need a registry of where those plugins are, but I'm starting to doubt that the governance project list is that registry. | 20:33 |
| flaper87 | I'd say, lets just say it has support for devstack for now and forget about the plugin bit until we find a good solution for that | 20:33 |
| dhellmann | I like integration:devstack for the deliverable, and then more details in the deliverable docs or the devstack docs (or both) | 20:33 |
| ttx | flaper87: ++ | 20:33 |
| dhellmann | flaper87: ++ | 20:33 |
| ttx | sounds like a good first step anyway | 20:33 |
| lifeless | ttx: but neutron having devstack integration doesn't mean that all the aas's are enabled | 20:33 |
| lifeless | for instance | 20:33 |
| lifeless | so I guess I'm wondering if thats going to mislead | 20:34 |
| sdague | ok, I'm fine just tagging the devstack in tree bits | 20:34 |
| dhellmann | lifeless: right, figuring out how to express that is more than a tag | 20:34 |
| sdague | that's a step 1 | 20:34 |
| ttx | lifeless: they should, otherwise publishing them as a single "thing" may be confusing anyway | 20:34 |
| dhellmann | sdague: no, I think we want a tag that says "has some devstack integration" and does not distinguish here | 20:34 |
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| flaper87 | dhellmann: ++ | 20:34 |
| sdague | ok, well I don't want that | 20:34 |
| sdague | because of support issues | 20:34 |
| lifeless | ttx: should doesn't make it actually happen though | 20:34 |
| lifeless | so its seeming to me that either we need to bring back per repo tags | 20:35 |
| ttx | lifeless: we could say the tag doesn't apply if only part of the deliverable gets devstack-integrated | 20:35 |
| dhellmann | sdague: can that not be solved by documentation within devstack itself? | 20:35 |
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| lifeless | or find some other way of communicating what (I think) sdague wants to communicate | 20:35 |
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| dhellmann | sdague: i.e., list what is in tree, and describe how to find the out-of-tree stuff | 20:35 |
| dhellmann | without making an exhaustive list ("look for a directory named foo" or "look at the contributor docs for the project") | 20:36 |
| sdague | dhellmann: that then implies that it is the role of the devstack team to categorize the universe, vs. the project registry to be a place for information about that to be stored | 20:36 |
| dhellmann | sdague: no, you only have to list the things you support in your tree, which you could do automatically | 20:36 |
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| flaper87 | sdague: just tell people what's in-tree | 20:36 |
| fungi | hrm, that means maybe we should remove the vulnerability:managed tag from, e.g., the neutron deliverable. it was applied to the openstack/neutron repo previously but not the other repos which just got glommed on today | 20:36 |
| lifeless | sdague: is it possible to write an oracle that takes git tree in and returns 'has devstack plugin:TRUE|FALSE' ? | 20:36 |
| jeblair | yeah, i also don't think that only tagging things in devstack is a good idea -- it could increase pressure (and of all the things we have discussed, that's the thing that could be _most_ served by a devstack-maintained list) | 20:37 |
| flaper87 | each project should do its best to let others know where to find the devstack plugin | 20:37 |
| dhellmann | and then give general guidance for how to find the other stuff by directing them to ask the project team | 20:37 |
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| flaper87 | if I need a plugin for X, I'd probably look in devstack -> project repo -> wherever the project repo tells me to go | 20:37 |
| ttx | fungi: maybe the -*aas should be split if they are so different | 20:37 |
| fungi | sort of sad i missed the implication of the deliverables discussion now | 20:37 |
| sdague | lifeless: I could probably | 20:37 |
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| flaper87 | that's something that the 'is-plugin' bit doesn't fix anyway | 20:37 |
| sdague | lifeless: to a 95% accuracy at least | 20:37 |
| lifeless | sdague: so I'm wondering if something could take teh repo list in, scan all the repos, and provide data back to governance (or wherever) automatically | 20:37 |
| sdague | sure | 20:38 |
| ttx | fungi: technically they were once in openstack/neutron and got split though | 20:38 |
| fungi | well, thinking in terms of "tag only applies to a deliverable if all repos within the deliverable are covered" suggestion | 20:38 |
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| flaper87 | lifeless: there are plugins outside repos that wouldn't be listed | 20:38 |
| jeblair | ttx, fungi: i think the model is good; we probably need to reconcile whether we fix this by supporting more repos or saying that "neutron" isn't supported because it's so complex | 20:38 |
| flaper87 | unless they use submodules | 20:38 |
| fungi | but similar concerns as qa will have with devstack support i think | 20:38 |
| flaper87 | or some sort of agreed listing model | 20:38 |
| annegentle | jeblair: yeah that's the concern, complexity drowning | 20:38 |
| sdague | right, qa will not support vpnaas | 20:38 |
| lifeless | flaper87: would they be able to move to being in repos? | 20:38 |
| sdague | but does support neutron | 20:38 |
| sdague | if that is not an expressible thing | 20:39 |
| sdague | that's kind of problematic | 20:39 |
| flaper87 | lifeless: in some cases, maybe. In other cases, it's unlike (vendor specific plugins) | 20:39 |
| ttx | sdague: it is if we split neutron-*aas from the neutron deliverable | 20:39 |
| sdague | I guess I also missed this issue on the deliverable side | 20:39 |
| ttx | sdague: since it looks like it's a different "thing" | 20:39 |
| jeblair | i think our side-track is getting side-tracked | 20:39 |
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| ttx | yep | 20:39 |
| flaper87 | jeblair: lol | 20:39 |
| sdague | jeblair: sure, but I think this is part of the confusion about what kind of information shows up here | 20:40 |
| ttx | OK, I suggest we give it some thought and comment on the review | 20:40 |
| flaper87 | ok, I think this need more work/discussion | 20:40 |
| annegentle | agreed | 20:40 |
| flaper87 | I'll comment on the review with my thoughts | 20:40 |
| flaper87 | lets move on | 20:40 |
| lifeless | flaper87: vendor specific plugin wouldn't be in vendor specific codebase? | 20:40 |
| sdague | because things like upgrade modes get impacted as well | 20:40 |
| ttx | no point is running for 10 more minutes in circles | 20:40 |
| * zaneb was bout to comment but will take it to the review | 20:40 | |
| fungi | well, applicability of previously per-repo tags is coming into question, so seems on-topic to the devstack tag discussion | 20:40 |
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| fungi | but agreed probably better in review | 20:40 |
| ttx | #topic Add and apply guidelines for project and service names | 20:40 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Add and apply guidelines for project and service names (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:40 | |
| sdague | yeh, we can collect there, figure out what questions to ask for next week | 20:41 |
| ttx | #link https://review.openstack.org/201160 | 20:41 |
| flaper87 | lifeless: yes but they are still plugins that I might want to use and therefore I'd like to find easily. An automated tool would ignore those plugins. For example: https://github.com/openstack/devstack-plugin-zmq | 20:41 |
| ttx | #link https://review.openstack.org/201670 | 20:41 |
| ttx | annegentle: where are we now with this one ? | 20:41 |
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| * flaper87 stays on topic | 20:41 | |
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| annegentle | I'll have to rebase after the alphabetization | 20:41 |
| annegentle | but I updated today with the key management v key manager update | 20:41 |
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| annegentle | docs team is informed. | 20:41 |
| annegentle | that's about it | 20:42 |
| lifeless | flaper87: that looks like it would be discovered actually | 20:42 |
| dhellmann | annegentle: I'm still a little worried that the zaqar description is too terse, but we can iterate on that separately | 20:42 |
| flaper87 | lifeless: ah ok, lets talk about it offline (or in 2 days :P) | 20:42 |
| lifeless | flaper87:kk | 20:42 |
| dhellmann | annegentle: specifically, differentiating zaqar and cue | 20:42 |
| annegentle | dhellmann: yeah I get it. | 20:42 |
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| flaper87 | dhellmann: yeah, I was worried about that as well but I didn't comment because that would require changing cue as well | 20:42 |
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| flaper87 | and probably other projects | 20:43 |
| annegentle | dhellmann: ayup | 20:43 |
| dhellmann | unfortunately, I don't have a constructive suggestion right now :-/ | 20:43 |
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| flaper87 | I was thinking to propose a follow up patch with a better descriptio | 20:43 |
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| flaper87 | description | 20:43 |
| annegentle | flaper87: do the rules generally work except for messaging queues? | 20:43 |
| flaper87 | one for each project so we can track the change | 20:43 |
| annegentle | flaper87: sure | 20:43 |
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| annegentle | any other naming concerns? | 20:44 |
| flaper87 | annegentle: If we all imagine there's 'Service' at the end, I believe it does. Otherwise, it's a bit terse for every project. | 20:44 |
| sdague | 'Governance' | 20:44 |
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| flaper87 | my main worry right now is that Message and Message broker will cause confusion | 20:44 |
| sdague | just because http://governance.openstack.org/ | 20:44 |
| ttx | sdague: yeah that one is pretty bad | 20:44 |
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| annegentle | flaper87: yeah the idea is to add service everywhere. | 20:44 |
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| dhellmann | sdague: yeah | 20:44 |
| sdague | which, you know, is in no way related | 20:44 |
| dhellmann | sdague: maybe we can get the congress team to review the minor projects.yaml changes? | 20:45 |
| jeblair | yeah, actually, i'm pretty sure the TC is reposnsible for implementing governance as a service | 20:45 |
| annegentle | Delta faucets, Delta airlines | 20:45 |
| dhellmann | annegentle: note that you needed 2 words to differentiate those companies :-) | 20:45 |
| lifeless | Gaas | 20:45 |
| annegentle | :) | 20:45 |
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| ttx | so.. let's accumulate reviews and patchset on that one ? | 20:46 |
| annegentle | ttx: yep, I'll rebase and keep asking people to take a look | 20:47 |
| ttx | #topic Add a release model for all projects | 20:47 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Add a release model for all projects (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:47 | |
| ttx | #link https://review.openstack.org/201724 | 20:47 |
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| ttx | We are still gathering information on this one | 20:47 |
| ttx | dhellmann: Starting to wonder if smaller incremental patches would not lead to faster improvements there | 20:47 |
| ttx | not sure we have anything TC to discuss about it | 20:47 |
| dhellmann | ttx: yeah, I'll split that up next week | 20:47 |
| ttx | cool | 20:47 |
| ttx | #topic Diversity script improvements | 20:47 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Diversity script improvements (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:47 | |
| ttx | We have two improvements around the diversity script | 20:48 |
| ttx | #link https://review.openstack.org/204372 | 20:48 |
| ttx | #link https://review.openstack.org/204770 | 20:48 |
| ttx | I propose to approve those "code" reviews once they get two rollcall+1 votes | 20:48 |
| ttx | since they are not governance either | 20:48 |
| flaper87 | ++ | 20:48 |
| ttx | and not spend meeting time on them | 20:48 |
| ttx | #topic Workgroup reports | 20:48 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Workgroup reports (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:48 | |
| ttx | * Project team guide | 20:48 |
| ttx | So we have almost everything we need to publish in | 20:49 |
| ttx | Only missing the open development chapter | 20:49 |
| flaper87 | I swear I'll get my part done | 20:49 |
| flaper87 | I'll do it on my flight tomorrow | 20:49 |
| flaper87 | and plublish it | 20:49 |
| ttx | flaper87: sounds good -- post what you have | 20:49 |
| * flaper87 is so ashamed | 20:49 | |
| ttx | jeblair: will you be working on the publication jobs ? Maybe you have already and I missed them | 20:49 |
| jeblair | ttx: i will | 20:49 |
| ttx | jeblair: thx! | 20:49 |
| ttx | * Next-tags | 20:49 |
| jeblair | ttx: i'm currently hiding behind flaper87. ;) | 20:49 |
| ttx | Team will gradually post new tags over the coming weeks. | 20:50 |
| ttx | The devstack tags proposed by sdague are an early manifestation of that | 20:50 |
| * flaper87 starts jumping | 20:50 | |
| ttx | sdague is just faster than us slackers | 20:50 |
| ttx | * Communications | 20:50 |
| ttx | annegentle, flaper87: maybe we should include this TC in the next blog post ? | 20:50 |
| flaper87 | yeah | 20:50 |
| ttx | i.e. the conclusion of the stackforge thing | 20:50 |
| flaper87 | and do a single post | 20:50 |
| flaper87 | the stackforge thing is important | 20:50 |
| annegentle | sure, next week ok? | 20:50 |
| ttx | well, next week we might have more to post :) | 20:51 |
| dhellmann | flaper87: the stackforge thing might be worth a separate post entirely | 20:51 |
| ttx | release early, release often! | 20:51 |
| annegentle | yeah, I'm thinking stackforge is a separate post, not a highlights one | 20:51 |
| ttx | dhellmann: not sure | 20:51 |
| annegentle | I can think of questions about it that someone could answer for the post | 20:51 |
| ttx | annegentle: the change is a technical one, not a governance one | 20:51 |
| flaper87 | we can make a longer post this time that gives enough information about stackforge | 20:52 |
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| ttx | I'm not sure we need to make a separate post... we just rename repos | 20:52 |
| * dhellmann shrugs | 20:52 | |
| annegentle | How will I be notified of the move? What's the timeline for renames? What if no one is maintainer, what happens? | 20:52 |
| ttx | i don't want people to start making up their own idea of what "moving under openstack namespace" means | 20:52 |
| annegentle | (I have a no-one-is-maintainer repo in there) | 20:53 |
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| edleafe | I tried explaining this to people. They are confused about it | 20:53 |
| jeblair | annegentle: i expect the infra team to come up with a plan that addresses that | 20:53 |
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| annegentle | jeblair: I think that a blog post should be part of that comm plan | 20:53 |
| edleafe | I tried explaining this to people. They are confused about it | 20:53 |
| dhellmann | annegentle: ++ | 20:53 |
| edleafe | ugh | 20:53 |
| annegentle | edleafe: heh | 20:53 |
| ttx | annegentle: I guess as long as the post clearly says it's just a repo rename, it's not "moving all of Stackforge into OpenStack" that's good | 20:54 |
| edleafe | typing in two windows == bad | 20:54 |
| dhellmann | ttx: ++ | 20:54 |
| ttx | I have enough big-tent haters sending me things | 20:54 |
| lifeless | ttx: orly? | 20:54 |
| dhellmann | we have a nice shiny yaml file to point to as the list of official projects | 20:54 |
| ttx | lifeless: it's more of a "hit me at conference about how much the whole idea sucks" kind of thing | 20:54 |
| zaneb | I really don't understand big-tent haters | 20:54 |
| lifeless | ttx: totes | 20:55 |
| annegentle | so, do you think we need a highlights post this week or is next ok? | 20:55 |
| ttx | zaneb: it's mostly that they don't get it, but misinformed people / press will make headlines out of small things | 20:55 |
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| zaneb | yeah, I know | 20:55 |
| zaneb | but how hard can it be to just ignore the parts you don't care about? | 20:56 |
| sdague | it's a less informed version of the same pov that wanted a starter kit. If openstack is 100 projects, people feel intimidated about where to start | 20:56 |
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| sdague | hopefully compute starter kit helps offset that | 20:56 |
| ttx | yep, fear of getting lost | 20:56 |
| edleafe | zaneb: some felt that incubation meant better quality | 20:56 |
| edleafe | zaneb: and we know that wasn't always true | 20:56 |
| dhellmann | edleafe: + | 20:57 |
| dhellmann | + | 20:57 |
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| ttx | so whatever we write, must clearly state that we still have official projects on one side and stackforge on th other, just the line doesn't use git repo prefixes anymore | 20:57 |
| zaneb | edleafe: yeah, that's fair, and that's why we're putting these tags in place to make sure people can still get that info | 20:57 |
| ttx | #topic Open discussion | 20:57 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:57 | |
| jeblair | ttx: ++ | 20:57 |
| flaper87 | ttx: ++ | 20:57 |
| lifeless | ttx: lets not say 'official + stackforge' - thats just confusing :) | 20:57 |
| lifeless | ttx: but yes, there are two sets | 20:57 |
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| sdague | ttx: is there a date scheduled for TC / Board joint meeting in Tokyo yet? | 20:57 |
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| sdague | because... travel planning | 20:57 |
| ttx | sdague: Monday i'm told, no confirmation | 20:58 |
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| sdague | ok, monday is an acceptable answer | 20:58 |
| ttx | The Debian packaging team proposal was updated, we'll review it next week | 20:58 |
| ttx | #link https://review.openstack.org/185187 | 20:58 |
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| ttx | We are at about the middle of the cycle at this point, so I'd like to take a step back for 2 minutes | 20:58 |
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| ttx | Is there any major problem we should be collectively working on fixing and that we aren't ? | 20:58 |
| ttx | I'm still deep in the big tent aftermath | 20:59 |
| ttx | I fear I'm losing the bigger picture | 20:59 |
| sdague | the dynamic policy bits are kind of gummed up | 20:59 |
| sdague | I feel like we need to come together as a community around what's going on there in Tokyo | 20:59 |
| sdague | because it's pretty cross project cutting | 21:00 |
| ttx | I think we have a few projects losing it (culture, not getting anything done, deadlocked...) and me and my team will focus on exploring them over the coming months | 21:00 |
| flaper87 | I honestly don't have an answer OTOH but I'll put thoughts on this | 21:00 |
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| annegentle | it's a great question, necessary to ask. | 21:00 |
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| ttx | so please, this week, take some time steppîng back and see if we are working on what we should be working on | 21:00 |
| annegentle | sounds good | 21:01 |
| ttx | I'm very happy with the project team gudie | 21:01 |
| flaper87 | +1 | 21:01 |
| ttx | but that's not the only thing | 21:01 |
| dhellmann | sdague: I just started a list of cross-project topics for the summit: https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/mitaka-cross-project-session-planning | 21:01 |
| sdague | honestly, I was thinking as we go into the cross project day in Tokyo, we should instead treat it as a TC priorities day, and be a little top down about the top things we think need some extra eyes | 21:01 |
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| sdague | dhellmann: ok, great | 21:01 |
| edleafe | sdague: +1 | 21:01 |
| thingee | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/mitaka-cross-project-session-planning | 21:01 |
| dhellmann | we should do the spreadsheet thing again for submissions, but this is good for notes for now | 21:01 |
| ttx | sdague: yeah, we should work ahead of that day and come up with the full agenda at this point | 21:01 |
| ttx | or that | 21:02 |
| ttx | anyway, time is up | 21:02 |
| flaper87 | o/ | 21:02 |
| ttx | #endmeeting | 21:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 21:02 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Jul 28 21:02:30 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 21:02 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2015/tc.2015-07-28-20.03.html | 21:02 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2015/tc.2015-07-28-20.03.txt | 21:02 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2015/tc.2015-07-28-20.03.log.html | 21:02 |
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| ttx | johnthetubaguy: sorry for overflow | 21:02 |
| fungi | i do sort of feel like if we don't report _accurately_ on the stackforge is in the openstack git namespace topic immediately, misinformed people will | 21:02 |
| johnthetubaguy | ttx: no worries, looked like good stuff | 21:02 |
| dhellmann | fungi: ++ | 21:02 |
| johnthetubaguy | #startmeeting crossproject | 21:03 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Jul 28 21:03:08 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is johnthetubaguy. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 21:03 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 21:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: crossproject)" | 21:03 | |
| edleafe | fungi: +1 | 21:03 |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'crossproject' | 21:03 |
| jokke_ | o/ | 21:03 |
| SergeyLukjanov | o/ | 21:03 |
| tpatil | Hi | 21:03 |
| johnthetubaguy | courtesy ping for david-lyle flaper87 dims dtroyer johnthetubaguy rakhmerov | 21:03 |
| johnthetubaguy | courtesy ping for smelikyan morganfainberg adrian_otto bswartz slagle | 21:03 |
| johnthetubaguy | courtesy ping for adrian_otto mestery kiall jeblair thinrichs j^2 stevebaker | 21:03 |
| johnthetubaguy | courtesy ping for mtreinish Daisy Piet notmyname ttx isviridov gordc SlickNik | 21:03 |
| johnthetubaguy | courtesy ping for cloudnull loquacities thingee hyakuhei redrobot dirk TravT | 21:03 |
| EmilienM | o/ | 21:03 |
| johnthetubaguy | courtesy ping for vipul emilienm SergeyLukjanov devananda boris-42 nikhil_k | 21:03 |
| elmiko | heyo/ | 21:03 |
| dims | o/ | 21:03 |
| david-lyle | o/ | 21:03 |
| fungi | mmm hot cross projects | 21:03 |
| mtreinish | o/ | 21:03 |
| edleafe | o/ | 21:03 |
| bknudson | hi | 21:03 |
| johnthetubaguy | hello all | 21:03 |
| stevebaker | \o | 21:03 |
| thingee | o/ | 21:03 |
| dhellmann | o/ | 21:03 |
| johnthetubaguy | fungi: I am hungry now :) | 21:03 |
| fungi | indeed | 21:03 |
| elmiko | lol | 21:03 |
| SlickNik | o/ | 21:03 |
| morganfainberg | Im mostly just lurking. bknudson can speak on keystone's behalf if i miss something. | 21:03 |
| fungi | it's already dinner time here | 21:03 |
| ttx | o/ | 21:04 |
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| jungleboyj | o/ | 21:04 |
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| * mestery lurks while at the board meeting in person | 21:04 | |
| ttx | it's way past dinner time here | 21:04 |
| johnthetubaguy | so looking that the agenda page | 21:04 |
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| johnthetubaguy | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/CrossProjectMeeting | 21:04 |
| jokke_ | ttx: it's past bed time for you ;) | 21:04 |
| TravT | o/ | 21:04 |
| johnthetubaguy | seems like we need someone for August 11th | 21:04 |
| redrobot | o/ | 21:04 |
| johnthetubaguy | if people are keen | 21:04 |
| devananda | \o | 21:04 |
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| johnthetubaguy | anyways, lets get cracking... | 21:04 |
| johnthetubaguy | #topic Team announcements (horizontal, vertical, diagonal) | 21:05 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Team announcements (horizontal, vertical, diagonal) (Meeting topic: crossproject)" | 21:05 | |
| ttx | On the release management side, this week is liberty-2 week | 21:05 |
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| ttx | So for projects that do development milestones, we'll be tagging that between today and Thursday | 21:05 |
| ttx | If you haven't yet, ping dhellmann or me ASAP on #openstack-relmgr-office | 21:05 |
| johnthetubaguy | #info its liberty-2 week reach out on #openstack-relmgr-office | 21:05 |
| ttx | EOF | 21:05 |
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| dhellmann | if you're managing your own milestone, the checklist we use is: | 21:06 |
| dhellmann | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Release_Cycle_Management/Milestone_Checklist | 21:06 |
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| * johnthetubaguy pokes the crowd for more announcements, maybe everyone is busy with liberty-2? | 21:06 | |
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| ttx | or not | 21:07 |
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| fungi | for those who missed the excitement, we had a security advisory for a non-vulnerability:managed deliverable today, whose vmt basically followed the vmt's documented process. kudos to kiall (who is apparently not with us) | 21:07 |
| fungi | er, whose ptl | 21:07 |
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| dhellmann | nice! | 21:08 |
| johnthetubaguy | so on the Nova side, we are doing a non-priority feature freeze on Thursday, in case thats on interest to other project | 21:08 |
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| fungi | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-announce/2015-July/000482.html | 21:08 |
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| fungi | anyway, that's a piece of the vmt's bigtop scaling plan | 21:08 |
| fungi | help project-teams help themselves | 21:08 |
| johnthetubaguy | fungi: sweet, good stuff | 21:08 |
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| johnthetubaguy | OK, so I sense a lack of updates, lets move on then... | 21:09 |
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| elmiko | api-wg has four new guidelines up for review | 21:09 |
| johnthetubaguy | #topic API Guidelines | 21:09 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "API Guidelines (Meeting topic: crossproject)" | 21:09 | |
| elmiko | lol | 21:10 |
| johnthetubaguy | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2015-July/069765.html | 21:10 |
| elmiko | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2015-July/069765.html | 21:10 |
| elmiko | jinx! | 21:10 |
| johnthetubaguy | elmiko: jinx! | 21:10 |
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| johnthetubaguy | damm I was too slown | 21:10 |
| thingee | #undo | 21:10 |
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| johnthetubaguy | thingee: thanks for the fix, good call | 21:10 |
| elmiko | we can each owe each other a beverage johnthetubaguy ;) | 21:10 |
| fungi | (the chair has to #undo) | 21:10 |
| johnthetubaguy | so yeah, any of those people want to disucss | 21:10 |
| thingee | don't think it registered | 21:10 |
| johnthetubaguy | #undo | 21:10 |
| openstack | Removing item from minutes: <ircmeeting.items.Link object at 0xae8c1d0> | 21:10 |
| thingee | fungi: heh thanks | 21:10 |
| fungi | np | 21:10 |
| johnthetubaguy | fungi: ah, cool | 21:10 |
| elmiko | these have actually been up for 2 weeks now, but we haven't had any negative feedback yet. iirc | 21:11 |
| johnthetubaguy | so yeah, anything we need to discuss on there? | 21:11 |
| elmiko | although i will need to get etoews to remove the -2 | 21:11 |
| jokke_ | elmiko: one of them had at least this afternoon couple of -1s | 21:11 |
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| elmiko | jokke_: ack, thank you | 21:11 |
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| johnthetubaguy | jokke_: is it worth talking about the -1s here? | 21:12 |
| jokke_ | I think it is | 21:12 |
| elmiko | i think the api-wg needs to review our freeze process as well. -2 seems to be not working for us | 21:12 |
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| jokke_ | it's the header namings | 21:12 |
| bknudson | all of these seem reasonable... | 21:12 |
| elmiko | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/186526/ | 21:12 |
| johnthetubaguy | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/186526/ | 21:12 |
| bknudson | note that keystone also uses the PATCH operation that has a body | 21:12 |
| johnthetubaguy | #undo | 21:12 |
| openstack | Removing item from minutes: <ircmeeting.items.Link object at 0xa76b910> | 21:12 |
| jokke_ | I think it would be nice to agree on them and move on | 21:12 |
| johnthetubaguy | so missing a meeting last week was a bad slow down I guess | 21:13 |
| johnthetubaguy | I like giving people time to see them I suppose, but yeah, don't want to always enforce the slow down all the time I guess | 21:14 |
| elmiko | the real issue seems to come down to using project name or service name in the headers | 21:14 |
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| bknudson | now we need to switch to OS-Identity-Token instead. | 21:15 |
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| elmiko | i think we'd like to recommend project name as it provides more resolution | 21:15 |
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| johnthetubaguy | elmiko: you mean if two projects have a compute API, or something like that? | 21:15 |
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| jokke_ | elmiko: ++ with big tent I think we might start seeing bit more overlapping | 21:16 |
| elmiko | johnthetubaguy: right, we could recommend Nova-someheader and NotNova-someheader .. | 21:16 |
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| edleafe | that would be confusing for end-users | 21:17 |
| johnthetubaguy | unsure if etoews is around | 21:17 |
| elmiko | i think he is still on vacation | 21:17 |
| edleafe | if the backend implements a different project for compute | 21:17 |
| johnthetubaguy | if the API working group owned the API name list, that would help | 21:17 |
| johnthetubaguy | elmiko: ah, no worries | 21:17 |
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| elmiko | i'm not sure we want to "own" something like that | 21:17 |
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| johnthetubaguy | like have a registry of API names, so the registry would help deal with clashes in the big tent | 21:18 |
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| johnthetubaguy | elmiko: true, maybe it goes in the projects.yaml? | 21:18 |
| elmiko | i agree it would be helpful, but the main thrust of the api-wg is to provide guideance and learning on creating sensible apis | 21:18 |
| johnthetubaguy | like API-service-name: XYZ | 21:18 |
| jokke_ | that would be nice including current version of that API | 21:19 |
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| johnthetubaguy | jokke_: I guess it could | 21:19 |
| fungi | hoping once the theory-of-api-design discussions die down within the api-wg, we might also see more suggestions on fixing bad api user experiences we have in existing implementations | 21:19 |
| elmiko | and remember this specific guidance is about adding new headers, we recommend that projects use more specific headers and to not necessarily use X-.... | 21:19 |
| elmiko | fungi: we have talked about creating advice for developers wishing to migrate their apis, this is something that is still very much in the design phase though. | 21:20 |
| jokke_ | one thing that concerns me around that proposal is consistency | 21:20 |
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| sigmavirus24 | jokke_: the header proposal? | 21:21 |
| jokke_ | now we will have N APIs using X- headers and soon enough N+1 that does not | 21:21 |
| thingee | fungi: +1 | 21:21 |
| jokke_ | consistency ... that gremlin | 21:21 |
| devananda | fungi: ++ on api-wg helping to improve UX | 21:21 |
| thingee | fungi: Somehow things moved away from this idea. | 21:21 |
| elmiko | jokke_: a valid concern, not sure we can really help more than to instruct developers on the best path out of the tangled forest ;) | 21:21 |
| edleafe | jokke_: yeah, but when the standard shifts from underneath you... | 21:21 |
| devananda | re: the "X-" in the header -- I'm of the mind that we should keep it there because it's an evolving thing. but either way, it should be consistent across all projects | 21:22 |
| jokke_ | edleafe: no-one told that the X- is not allowed it's just not the one that is insisted | 21:22 |
| jroll | question: is someone actually going to go register all of these headers in the IANA message headers registry? | 21:22 |
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| sigmavirus24 | jokke_: consistency, the thing OpenStack doesn't have | 21:22 |
| elmiko | jroll: that is a good question | 21:22 |
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| devananda | and my counter argument to the api-wg would be: if we drop the X- from that header, should'nt we drop the X- from all the othre headers too? | 21:22 |
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| edleafe | jokke_: it is discouraged for new headers, but with full recognition that existing headers, well, *exist*. | 21:23 |
| sigmavirus24 | devananda: not existing APIs | 21:23 |
| jroll | elmiko: and if nobody is going to register them, things like "Compute-API-Version" will almost certainly conflict with other things out there | 21:23 |
| elmiko | devananda: if the goal is to work towards consistency, then yes. i'm not sure that is the goal at this point though. | 21:23 |
| sigmavirus24 | devananda: it should be dropped when authoring new versions of APIs | 21:23 |
| jokke_ | sigmavirus24: that's why I'm surprised that the api_wg is suggesting to break the one thing we had it even remotely ;) | 21:23 |
| sigmavirus24 | jokke_: we're suggesting you follow API best practices | 21:23 |
| jroll | (I'm not sure if registration is a SHOULD or MUST or MAY, though) | 21:23 |
| sigmavirus24 | which, promotes good user experience | 21:23 |
| jokke_ | edleafe: ah, might be that I misunderstood the point there then, sorry | 21:23 |
| elmiko | i think registering the header names, and moving towards consistency are excellent points for our forthcoming migration guidance | 21:23 |
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| devananda | sigmavirus24: authoring new service projects? new major versions of APIs of existing projects? or something else? | 21:24 |
| sigmavirus24 | jokke_: also don't get me started on which services use headers for things they absolutely shouldn't | 21:24 |
| sigmavirus24 | devananda: yes | 21:24 |
| devananda | sigmavirus24: and would it be dropped from all headers returned in those cases, or just the "established" ones? | 21:24 |
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| jroll | another question: does consistency in header names actually benefit users? do people really expect to be able to look for "X-%(service_type)-Version" or whatever? | 21:25 |
| jokke_ | I would thing that major version is the only acceptable place to change those? | 21:25 |
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| edleafe | devananda: if a service has 'X-Foo-Bar', they could continue to support that, and also add 'Foo-Bar' for the future | 21:25 |
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| sigmavirus24 | jroll: given that people don't all use the command-line clients and some are writing them from scratch, that helps users, yes | 21:26 |
| devananda | edleafe: mm, indeed | 21:26 |
| edleafe | devananda: and all new APIs would not use 'X-' | 21:26 |
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| * sigmavirus24 wonders if he even needs to participate given how well edleafe is explaining this on his own | 21:26 | |
| elmiko | edleafe: +1 | 21:26 |
| bknudson | would be nice to see an example for X-Auth-Token , since that's pretty common. | 21:26 |
| jroll | sigmavirus24: I don't think anyone reasonably building an application against an API would just wildly guess at header names, but that might just be me | 21:26 |
| devananda | bknudson: ++ | 21:27 |
| sigmavirus24 | jroll: so given some services use it to transmit arbitrary metadata, that's exactly how some clients work | 21:27 |
| edleafe | jroll: you don't? I do that for fun all the time! :) | 21:27 |
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| elmiko | agreed, bknudson +1 | 21:27 |
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| sigmavirus24 | jroll: this won't change that for existing APIs, but will improve that in the future in general | 21:27 |
| elmiko | these are some great comments, would folks mind capturing some of these in the review please =) | 21:27 |
| fungi | definitely in favor of having solid examples of these relevant to our current services | 21:27 |
| johnthetubaguy | so I have a feeling I should call time on this | 21:27 |
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| johnthetubaguy | elmiko: +1 lets get these in to review comments I guess | 21:28 |
| sigmavirus24 | fungi: we've been trying not to do that to avoid pointing fingers or appearing to "shame" | 21:28 |
| jroll | sigmavirus24: ok, just asking the question :) | 21:28 |
| jokke_ | johnthetubaguy: +1 move on :D | 21:28 |
| elmiko | thanks johnthetubaguy | 21:28 |
| fungi | there's enough shame to go around | 21:28 |
| sigmavirus24 | fungi: don't disagree ;) | 21:28 |
| johnthetubaguy | cools | 21:28 |
| johnthetubaguy | so lets assume the other ones are all good, unless someone pipes up real soon | 21:28 |
| dstanek | sigmavirus24: i'd love to see keystone examples, i don't mind the finger pointing at us | 21:28 |
| sigmavirus24 | dstanek: hah, fair enough | 21:29 |
| johnthetubaguy | #topic Cross Project Specs | 21:29 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Cross Project Specs (Meeting topic: crossproject)" | 21:29 | |
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| johnthetubaguy | so I have looked up some of the cross project specs that are up | 21:29 |
| johnthetubaguy | and need a look | 21:29 |
| johnthetubaguy | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/205629 | 21:29 |
| johnthetubaguy | that is about no global admin | 21:29 |
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| johnthetubaguy | that seems like a sound concept | 21:30 |
| elmiko | yea, +1 | 21:30 |
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| johnthetubaguy | there is one that looks like it gets replaced by the SDK work: | 21:30 |
| johnthetubaguy | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/202586 | 21:30 |
| johnthetubaguy | called: Uniform public methods for clients | 21:31 |
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| johnthetubaguy | anyways, here is the general link if you fancy a dig into some old ones | 21:31 |
| johnthetubaguy | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:open+project:openstack/openstack-specs,n,z | 21:31 |
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| johnthetubaguy | although you all new that, but a link can be easier | 21:31 |
| dstanek | ++ to no global admin | 21:31 |
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| johnthetubaguy | anyways, tpatil I think you added your request-id work to the agenda? | 21:32 |
| tpatil | Hi | 21:32 |
| tpatil | We have analyzed return types of each of the public method from 5 different python client libraries | 21:32 |
| tpatil | python-glance, python-cinder, python-nova, python-neutron, python-keystone | 21:32 |
| johnthetubaguy | #topic Return request-id to caller | 21:32 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Return request-id to caller (Meeting topic: crossproject)" | 21:32 | |
| tpatil | All information is available in the google spreadsheet and etherpad | 21:32 |
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| johnthetubaguy | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/request-id | 21:32 |
| tpatil | #link: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1al6_XBHgKT8-N7HS7j_L2H5c4CFD0fB8xT93z6REkSk | 21:32 |
| tpatil | We have identified 3 more additional return types (string,boolean,generator) compared to the ones reported earlier | 21:32 |
| tpatil | Had a issue with returning request id in generator return type, Doug suggested a solution to overcome this problem by writing a new wrapper class and implementing iterator protocol | 21:33 |
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| tpatil | We have solutions to all issues identified so far to return request id to the caller | 21:33 |
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| johnthetubaguy | tpatil: I know this is a lot more work, but it seems like it is a viable solution then? | 21:33 |
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| tpatil | johnthetubaguy: Yes, all concerns are addressed it seems | 21:34 |
| bknudson | wrapt provides a object proxy -- http://wrapt.readthedocs.org/en/latest/wrappers.html -- was just looking at this today | 21:34 |
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| tpatil | Another thing I would like to bring to your attention is that request id is most needed when api returns anything >= 400 error code | 21:34 |
| tpatil | python-cinderclient already has a mechanism to return request id in exception | 21:34 |
| tpatil | #link: https://github.com/openstack/python-cinderclient/blob/master/cinderclient/exceptions.py#L87 | 21:34 |
| tpatil | IMO, we should first add request id in exception class in the rest of the python client libraries before start making changes to the rest of the return types | 21:34 |
| tpatil | Based on all information available to date, we will modify the specs and upload it for review by end of this week | 21:34 |
| johnthetubaguy | tpatil: sounds like a very good plan to me, at least, sounds like a great place to start | 21:34 |
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| jokke_ | sounds like reasonable place to start | 21:34 |
| bknudson | is adding request_id to the exception in the spec? | 21:34 |
| tpatil | bknudson: Not yet, we will modify specs and upload it soon | 21:35 |
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| johnthetubaguy | #action tpatil to update request id spec with latest details | 21:35 |
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| bknudson | thanks! | 21:35 |
| johnthetubaguy | cool, sounds like we have got a good path forward here | 21:36 |
| johnthetubaguy | tpatil: any more questions? | 21:36 |
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| tpatil | johnthetubaguy: That’s all I wanted to update you at the moment | 21:36 |
| johnthetubaguy | tpatil: awesome stuff, thank you for pushing on this :) | 21:36 |
| johnthetubaguy | #topic Open discussion | 21:36 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: crossproject)" | 21:36 | |
| * jokke_ is happy - this topic gets shorter each time :) | 21:36 | |
| johnthetubaguy | jokke_: +1 | 21:36 |
| johnthetubaguy | hey, so time to go wild, if you are feeling that way :) | 21:37 |
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| jokke_ | Horizon, glance, searchlight having midcycles this week ... some x-proj collaboration going on there | 21:37 |
| jungleboyj | jokke_: ++ | 21:38 |
| johnthetubaguy | good stuff | 21:38 |
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| jokke_ | and just if someone missed | 21:38 |
| jungleboyj | Cinder's meet-up is the 8/4 to 8/6 if anyone wants to come collaborate with us in Fort Collins! | 21:38 |
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| jokke_ | we're removing that experimental Catalog & Index service api from glance | 21:39 |
| jungleboyj | Fort Collins is awesome! | 21:39 |
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| jokke_ | as in the one that became searchlight | 21:39 |
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| bknudson | how was the api marked experimental? | 21:39 |
| thingee | Would like to bring up that Cinder, like Nova is having issues with Glance v2 http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2015-July/070714.html | 21:40 |
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| dstanek | jungleboyj: sounds like fun, but too far of a drive for me | 21:41 |
| thingee | I'm not sure if there is someone from the glance team that is available actively looking at cross project integration issues? | 21:41 |
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| jokke_ | bknudson: It's status was marked EXPERIMENTAL instead of SUPPORTED or CURRENT ... enabling it also needed ack in config that it's experimental IIRC | 21:42 |
| fungi | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/CrossProjectLiaisons#Inter-project_Liaisons | 21:42 |
| fungi | thingee: ^ | 21:42 |
| thingee | nikhil_k: ^ | 21:42 |
| fungi | i think that's the closest list we have to such a thing | 21:43 |
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| thingee | fungi: yeah johnthetubaguy just actually showed me that today. that's pretty neat. I was hoping we could discuss a cross with glance and cinder. | 21:44 |
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| thingee | alright, I guess I'll go to the glance meeting then. | 21:44 |
| johnthetubaguy | yeah, Nova side we don't really have v2 support, but there were some bugs reported when we used v1 and users used v2, although I have not dug deep into that | 21:44 |
| jokke_ | thingee: Thu 1400 ... welcome | 21:44 |
| johnthetubaguy | I should head over there at some point soon too | 21:45 |
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| jokke_ | https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/glance-team-meeting-agenda | 21:45 |
| johnthetubaguy | thingee: the cross project thing is only really just getting going, help getting the most out of that would be great, not sure we have great patterns yet | 21:46 |
| jokke_ | if you wanna add yourselves into the agenda | 21:46 |
| johnthetubaguy | cool, so I think we are about done | 21:46 |
| johnthetubaguy | thanks for your time all | 21:46 |
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| jungleboyj | johnthetubaguy: Hopefully it can gain more momentum. | 21:46 |
| johnthetubaguy | markmcclain is our host next week, I believe | 21:46 |
| jokke_ | thanks johnthetubaguy | 21:46 |
| elmiko | thanks johnthetubaguy | 21:46 |
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| johnthetubaguy | jungleboyj: yeah, I want to push a bit further on the Nova related ones again soon | 21:47 |
| johnthetubaguy | thanks all | 21:47 |
| johnthetubaguy | #endmeeting | 21:47 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 21:47 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Jul 28 21:47:24 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 21:47 |
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| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/crossproject/2015/crossproject.2015-07-28-21.03.html | 21:47 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/crossproject/2015/crossproject.2015-07-28-21.03.txt | 21:47 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/crossproject/2015/crossproject.2015-07-28-21.03.log.html | 21:47 |
| jungleboyj | Thanks! | 21:47 |
| tpatil | Thanks everyone! | 21:47 |
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| * johnthetubaguy sleep time me thinks, since I am out of hot cross buns | 21:48 | |
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| elmiko | lol | 21:48 |
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