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| anteaya | #startmeeting third-party | 08:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Jan 13 08:00:17 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is anteaya. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 08:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 08:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: third-party)" | 08:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'third_party' | 08:00 |
| anteaya | anyone here for the third-party meeting? | 08:00 |
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| jyuso | anteaya: hi | 08:03 |
| anteaya | hello jyuso | 08:03 |
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| anteaya | jyuso: how are things going? | 08:03 |
| jyuso | anteaya: our CI is online few hours before.still many works to do:) | 08:04 |
| anteaya | good for you! | 08:04 |
| jyuso | anteaya: thanks | 08:04 |
| anteaya | any questions or issues you want to talk about today? | 08:05 |
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| jyuso | anteaya: OK.I have a question about gerrit trigger | 08:06 |
| anteaya | jyuso: great, ask away | 08:06 |
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| jyuso | The gerrit trigger would return such message to Gerrit "gerrit review <CHANGE>,<PATCHSET> --message 'Build Started <BUILDURL> <STARTED_STATS>' --verified <VERIFIED> --code-review <CODE_REVIEW>" | 08:08 |
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| anteaya | okay | 08:08 |
| anteaya | what is your question about what gerrit trigger returns? | 08:09 |
| jyuso | Yes.I saw some CI return more useful messages.Like URL,sign and many lines.If I want my messages become such pattern,Did that mean I just modify --message '' and it will worked? | 08:11 |
| anteaya | well you need to make sure it does not report "Build Started" | 08:12 |
| anteaya | #link http://ci.openstack.org/third_party.html#requirements | 08:12 |
| amotoki | jyuso: as you may know, one CI should return one message per patchset. | 08:12 |
| jyuso | yes,I've abandon "Build started". | 08:12 |
| anteaya | A third-party system may only leave one comment per patch set (unless it is retriggered). | 08:13 |
| anteaya | amotoki: thank you :D | 08:13 |
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| jyuso | amotoki: yes,I know that.thanks | 08:13 |
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| amotoki | jyuso: AFAIK there is no easy way to report multiple lines. | 08:13 |
| anteaya | jyuso: so yes as amotoki says, you can only post a message to gerrit once the results are returned | 08:13 |
| anteaya | let's take a look at some examples, shall we? | 08:13 |
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| anteaya | jyuso: can you find a patch that has a comment in the format you want to copy? | 08:14 |
| jyuso | amotoki: oh,you mean I can't use Gerrit trigger to report multiple lines? | 08:14 |
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| jyuso | anteaya: Maybe this one https://review.openstack.org/#/c/135625/ | 08:16 |
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| amotoki | jyuso: AFAIK yes | 08:16 |
| anteaya | jyuso: which ci account should we look at? | 08:16 |
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| jyuso | anteaya: I think the partten of "IBM PowerKVM CI" is good.and they support us more usefule information | 08:17 |
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| anteaya | amotoki: do you use gerrit trigger? | 08:17 |
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| amotoki | anteaya: at first I used gerrit trigger, but soon after I migrated to zuul | 08:17 |
| anteaya | jyuso: great well that makes it easy, krtaylor is an operator for IBM PowerKVM CI, ask him in -infra how to create that comment format | 08:18 |
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| anteaya | jyuso: he is in Texas | 08:18 |
| amotoki | jyuso: I think most CIs including IBM CI use zuul. It is a format used by zuul report. | 08:18 |
| anteaya | amotoki: does zuul allow you to customize your gerrit comments? | 08:18 |
| amotoki | yes, but I think we can only customize the first line. | 08:19 |
| anteaya | amotoki: really in zuul? | 08:19 |
| anteaya | SergeyLukjanov: are you about? | 08:20 |
| amotoki | yes. let me check | 08:20 |
| jyuso | amotoki: Oh,thanks.I think that should be the reason. | 08:20 |
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| anteaya | jyuso: are you considering using zuul? | 08:20 |
| jyuso | amotoki: I can't find out how to show such rich information with Gerrit triger:) | 08:20 |
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| jyuso | anteaya: oh,may be later.we don't need the nodepool script of zuul. | 08:21 |
| anteaya | jyuso: okay | 08:21 |
| jyuso | anteaya: our case is based on physical machine.each VM should be created with PCI device | 08:22 |
| amotoki | we can customize message by using *-message in http://ci.openstack.org/zuul/zuul.html#pipelines | 08:22 |
| anteaya | jyuso: well if using gerrit trigger limits what kind of comment you can generate, can you get by with customizing one line? | 08:22 |
| anteaya | amotoki: thanks | 08:22 |
| jyuso | anteaya: our comments is in that URL also. | 08:23 |
| jyuso | vanteaya: very simple:( | 08:23 |
| anteaya | jyuso: sorry which URL? | 08:23 |
| anteaya | I seem to have lost track | 08:23 |
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| jyuso | amotoki: thanks.I'll check some details. | 08:23 |
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| jyuso | anteaya: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/135625/ | 08:24 |
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| anteaya | jyuso: okay yes, so elminate: Patch Set 17: | 08:24 |
| anteaya | Build Started | 08:24 |
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| anteaya | and Patch Set 18: | 08:25 |
| anteaya | Build Successful http://198.175.100.33/135625/18 | 08:25 |
| anteaya | is perfectly fine | 08:25 |
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| anteaya | you have this message in your logs: Intel HW Based PCI CI | 08:26 |
| jyuso | anteaya: yes.I've delete that "Build Started" after patch set 17:) | 08:26 |
| anteaya | Intel PCI CI is based on physical machine,cover PCI pass-through and SRIOV testing. | 08:26 |
| anteaya | The test cases running on this CI is located on Github repository. | 08:26 |
| anteaya | Contact email:openstack_ci@intel.com | 08:26 |
| anteaya | great thank you | 08:26 |
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| anteaya | and I think customizing your message in your logs is just fine | 08:26 |
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| jyuso | anteaya: OK,I think we should add such script info and wiki info into comments.It seems better | 08:27 |
| anteaya | okay | 08:28 |
| anteaya | I support more information | 08:28 |
| anteaya | do investigate what is possible | 08:28 |
| anteaya | gerrit trigger does have limitations | 08:28 |
| amotoki | jyuso: my suggestion is to migrate to zuul once you have set up a basic functionality of your CI. zuul allows you to define trigger conditions easily and post better comment. | 08:28 |
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| jyuso | anteaya: yes.thanks.I'll. | 08:28 |
| amotoki | The migration path is very simple: | 08:29 |
| amotoki | setup zuul and remove gerrit trigger from your jobs. | 08:29 |
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| amotoki | another gerrit trigger limitation is it is not easy to support "recheck" trigger :( | 08:30 |
| anteaya | amotoki: yes that is true | 08:30 |
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| jyuso | amotoki: Could I add messages which regexp "recheck" into trigger condition of Gerrit trigger ? | 08:33 |
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| jyuso | amotoki: That's what I thought.but not try yet. | 08:33 |
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| amotoki | jyuso: iirc, we cannot. | 08:33 |
| amotoki | but I thought arista shared a patch to support it. | 08:34 |
| amotoki | I saw a mailing list post several months ago (one year?). | 08:34 |
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| anteaya | amotoki: yes I remember that | 08:36 |
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| jyuso | amotoki: ok...thank you. | 08:36 |
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| anteaya | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Arista-third-party-testing | 08:38 |
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| anteaya | now the instructions are in a google doc, Sukhdev said he would try to get it transfered to the wikipage but that hasn't happened yet | 08:38 |
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| amotoki | jyuso: It is my blog post on zuul config and switching from gerrit trigger: http://ritchey98.blogspot.jp/2014/02/openstack-third-party-testing-how-to.html | 08:40 |
| anteaya | #link http://ritchey98.blogspot.jp/2014/02/openstack-third-party-testing-how-to.html | 08:40 |
| jyuso | amotoki: thanks:) | 08:40 |
| anteaya | thanks for sharing that amotoki :D | 08:40 |
| amotoki | jyuso: but note that zuul configuraiton is a bit old and the latst zuul with merger is not coming yet.... | 08:40 |
| amotoki | i need to update my CI master soon so i can update my post. feel free to ask me. | 08:42 |
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| jyuso | amotoki: thanks.I'll read your blog later.It looks like very useful:) | 08:43 |
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| jyuso | anteaya: thanks.I think I've got lots of useful information.my question is over:) | 08:45 |
| anteaya | jyuso: thank you, I appreciate you letting me know | 08:45 |
| anteaya | I'm glad you got some useful information | 08:45 |
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| anteaya | shall we discuss anything else? | 08:47 |
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| amotoki | nothing from me | 08:47 |
| anteaya | amotoki: thanks for being here to answer questions | 08:47 |
| anteaya | :D | 08:47 |
| anteaya | I appreciate it | 08:48 |
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| jyuso | amotoki: thank you very much:) | 08:49 |
| anteaya | would you like me to end the meeting so you can move onto other things? | 08:49 |
| anteaya | I don't want to keep you | 08:49 |
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| anteaya | I'll end the meeting | 08:51 |
| jyuso | anteaya: OK,i have no more question | 08:51 |
| anteaya | thanks for attending | 08:51 |
| jyuso | anteaya: thank you anteaya: | 08:51 |
| anteaya | jyuso: okay great | 08:51 |
| anteaya | see you next week | 08:51 |
| amotoki | thanks all | 08:51 |
| jyuso | anteaya: see you | 08:51 |
| anteaya | thank you amotoki | 08:51 |
| anteaya | #endmeeting | 08:51 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 08:51 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Jan 13 08:51:42 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 08:51 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/third_party/2015/third_party.2015-01-13-08.00.html | 08:51 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/third_party/2015/third_party.2015-01-13-08.00.txt | 08:51 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/third_party/2015/third_party.2015-01-13-08.00.log.html | 08:51 |
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| anteaya | #startmeeting nova-net-to-neutron-migration | 09:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Jan 13 09:00:43 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is anteaya. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 09:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 09:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: nova-net-to-neutron-migration)" | 09:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'nova_net_to_neutron_migration' | 09:00 |
| jlibosva | hi | 09:00 |
| anteaya | jlibosva: hello | 09:01 |
| obondarev | o/ | 09:01 |
| anteaya | welcome, I'm glad you are here | 09:01 |
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| anteaya | obondarev: oleg how are you? | 09:01 |
| obondarev | me too:) | 09:01 |
| anteaya | obondarev: how were your holidays? | 09:01 |
| belmoreira | hi | 09:01 |
| anteaya | obondarev: :D | 09:01 |
| obondarev | anteaya: Good, thank you :) | 09:01 |
| anteaya | belmoreira: welcome | 09:01 |
| obondarev | anteaya: how are you? | 09:01 |
| anteaya | obondarev: wonderful | 09:01 |
| anteaya | obondarev: good thanks, enjoying a lovely new zealand evening | 09:01 |
| obondarev | anteaya: wow, cool! | 09:02 |
| anteaya | anyone else here for the migration meeting? | 09:02 |
| anteaya | obondarev: it is lovely | 09:02 |
| anteaya | obondarev: we have to figure out how to get you to lca next year | 09:02 |
| obondarev | anteaya: sorry, where?) | 09:02 |
| anteaya | obondarev: linux conference austrailia | 09:02 |
| obondarev | anteaya: ah, I see) | 09:03 |
| anteaya | so we do have a bit of an agenda | 09:03 |
| anteaya | let's take a look, shall we? | 09:03 |
| anteaya | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/Nova-nettoNeutronMigration | 09:03 |
| anteaya | #topic the state of the Neutron spec (obondarev) | 09:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "the state of the Neutron spec (obondarev) (Meeting topic: nova-net-to-neutron-migration)" | 09:04 | |
| obondarev | anteaya: yep | 09:04 |
| anteaya | obondarev: would you care to share your thoughts? | 09:04 |
| obondarev | sure | 09:04 |
| obondarev | so I continue working on the spec, uploaded new revision yesterday | 09:04 |
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| anteaya | wonderful, thank you | 09:04 |
| obondarev | thanks to Joe Gordon, Jacub and others for being active reviewers | 09:04 |
| obondarev | still would be good to have more people taking part in the discussion | 09:05 |
| obondarev | on gerrit | 09:05 |
| anteaya | yes, I agree | 09:05 |
| obondarev | I'm also working on the prototype in parallel | 09:05 |
| anteaya | how do you mean? | 09:05 |
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| obondarev | which is the first part of the proposed plan - Neutron proxy mode | 09:05 |
| obondarev | I mean in arallel with spec discussions | 09:06 |
| obondarev | p* | 09:06 |
| anteaya | okay | 09:06 |
| anteaya | where are you working on that? | 09:06 |
| obondarev | mostly locally, haven't posted anything to gerrit yet | 09:07 |
| anteaya | can you put something up? | 09:07 |
| anteaya | I don't want to see effort wasted | 09:07 |
| anteaya | and would like to see where you are heading | 09:07 |
| anteaya | may I jump in here with some additional comments? | 09:07 |
| anteaya | or would you like to continue? | 09:07 |
| obondarev | Yeah, I think I'll post initial version in two days | 09:07 |
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| obondarev | sure | 09:08 |
| anteaya | okay thanks | 09:08 |
| anteaya | so there are a few people involved in this who are at linux conference australia in auckland this week | 09:08 |
| anteaya | so we took the time to sit down on monday and share some thoughts | 09:09 |
| anteaya | michael still took nots on an etherpad and has had the time to post that link publicly yet | 09:09 |
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| anteaya | but we want to share the information with everyone whcih is why we put it in and etherpad | 09:09 |
| anteaya | sorry I don't have that link | 09:09 |
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| obondarev | no worries | 09:10 |
| anteaya | so I was there and michael still, joe gordon, mark, angus | 09:10 |
| obondarev | cool! | 09:10 |
| anteaya | jim blair and david lyle (mostly because they were available) | 09:10 |
| belmoreira | anteaya: the discussion in lca diverged from the spec? | 09:11 |
| anteaya | and we think that there needs to be more attention on the spec so that is good | 09:11 |
| anteaya | belmoreira: well I think mostly we agreed that it needs more detail | 09:11 |
| anteaya | and we acknowledge oleg is doing a great job | 09:11 |
| obondarev | for sure | 09:11 |
| obondarev | I mean more details) | 09:12 |
| anteaya | but needs more support than he has gotten so far | 09:12 |
| anteaya | yes more details | 09:12 |
| anteaya | more details for testing | 09:12 |
| anteaya | a better understanding of what priorties are important to cern | 09:12 |
| anteaya | such as tolerance for downtime and allowance for rolling upgrades | 09:12 |
| anteaya | those sorts of questions | 09:13 |
| anteaya | cern being the model use case for deployers here | 09:13 |
| obondarev | Joe posted some of those question on the spec | 09:13 |
| anteaya | yes, we are trying to capture this in the spec | 09:13 |
| anteaya | and trying to work together to get some answers | 09:13 |
| anteaya | the over all direction I believe is where we want to go | 09:13 |
| anteaya | we just need to work now to get some more exact answers | 09:14 |
| obondarev | + | 09:14 |
| anteaya | so gus, mark and I are going to sit down this week | 09:14 |
| anteaya | and work on another patchset to the spec | 09:14 |
| anteaya | I hpoe that is okay with you obondarev | 09:14 |
| obondarev | sure | 09:14 |
| anteaya | to fill in the blanks on some of these questions | 09:14 |
| anteaya | obondarev: thank you :D | 09:15 |
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| anteaya | and then go through a review cycle again | 09:15 |
| obondarev | thank you all:) | 09:15 |
| anteaya | now mark, joe, michael still and myself will be at the nova mid-cycle in two weeks | 09:15 |
| anteaya | obondarev: it would be awesome to have you there too, oleg but that would be too difficult to arrange now I think | 09:16 |
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| obondarev | I think so too | 09:16 |
| anteaya | and hopefully by continuing to work on the spec we can be a little closer to agreement on how to implement the migration | 09:16 |
| anteaya | does this sound acceptable? | 09:16 |
| obondarev | yes | 09:17 |
| obondarev | one point from Joe was that it'll be good to break the spec in its curent state in two parts | 09:17 |
| anteaya | great, thanks so much for your understanding | 09:17 |
| obondarev | one describing the overall process, what we're trying to achieve eventually | 09:17 |
| obondarev | which starting points and which end points | 09:17 |
| obondarev | this I guess should be a cross project specification | 09:17 |
| anteaya | obondarev: yes, right now joe is advocating for a two part/two patch approach | 09:17 |
| obondarev | the other describing technical implementation details | 09:18 |
| anteaya | well lets' see how much we can retain within neutron | 09:18 |
| anteaya | since everytime we expand we introduce more waiting time | 09:18 |
| obondarev | agree | 09:18 |
| anteaya | I'll work with angus and mark to see if we can capture the details in joe's idea of a two part approach in the spec | 09:19 |
| anteaya | so taht it makes sense with everyone | 09:19 |
| obondarev | great, thank you | 09:19 |
| anteaya | so hopefully that should be up for review by the end of thursday | 09:19 |
| anteaya | thursday new zealand time | 09:19 |
| anteaya | so I look forward to your review and comments on that patchset | 09:20 |
| anteaya | so anything more here on this topic? | 09:20 |
| obondarev | not from my side | 09:20 |
| anteaya | belmoreira: anything more right now? | 09:20 |
| jlibosva | sorry I don't know much the names mentioned here :) | 09:21 |
| jlibosva | I wanted to ask whether there are also folks from nova | 09:21 |
| anteaya | jlibosva: ah sorry | 09:21 |
| jlibosva | as we'll probably need to file a nova spec too | 09:21 |
| anteaya | jlibosva: yes a good question, I shouldn't assume everyone knows eveyone else | 09:21 |
| jlibosva | I saw there were some concerns about contacting conductor directly | 09:21 |
| anteaya | michael still is the nova ptl | 09:21 |
| belmoreira | anteays: no, thx | 09:21 |
| obondarev | right, that's on the agenda | 09:21 |
| anteaya | joe gordon is a nova core | 09:21 |
| jlibosva | ah, thanks :) I should have probably known that | 09:22 |
| anteaya | so yes, we have some input from nova here | 09:22 |
| anteaya | jlibosva: good question it is important to check | 09:22 |
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| anteaya | jlibosva: you can't know everything | 09:22 |
| anteaya | and I prefer people ask | 09:22 |
| anteaya | since if you do't know there are probably others that don't know either | 09:23 |
| anteaya | thanks for giving me the chance to clarify | 09:23 |
| anteaya | so yes, let's move onto the next topic | 09:23 |
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| anteaya | #topic Nova spec, do we need one? if yes, who will create it? | 09:23 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Nova spec, do we need one? if yes, who will create it? (Meeting topic: nova-net-to-neutron-migration)" | 09:23 | |
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| anteaya | so right now joe doesn't feel we need a separate nova spec | 09:23 |
| anteaya | or if we do, it will just be a pointer to the neutron spec | 09:24 |
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| anteaya | we have gotten permission from michael still to have a nova spec exception if we need it | 09:24 |
| anteaya | since this is a high priority effort | 09:24 |
| belmoreira | anteaya: but there are any nova changes expected? | 09:24 |
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| obondarev | belmoreira: I guess so | 09:25 |
| anteaya | belmoreira: good question | 09:25 |
| anteaya | well I don't know exactly | 09:25 |
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| anteaya | this is one of the things I want clarified in the next patchset for the neutron spec | 09:25 |
| anteaya | so after that patchset is posted hopefully we all will have a clearer picture | 09:25 |
| obondarev | not sure it's good to include technical detail of changes in neutron and in nova into one single spec.. | 09:26 |
| obondarev | ok | 09:26 |
| anteaya | obondarev: true | 09:26 |
| anteaya | but let's see what shape the new patchset takes | 09:26 |
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| anteaya | and then comment in reviews | 09:26 |
| obondarev | makes sense | 09:26 |
| anteaya | but the short version is that _if_ we need a nova spec, we have gotten permission to create one | 09:27 |
| anteaya | even though it is passed the deadline | 09:27 |
| obondarev | awesome | 09:27 |
| belmoreira | anteaya: great | 09:27 |
| anteaya | one of the things we talked about at our in person meeting | 09:27 |
| anteaya | is that this effort keeps being hindered by the release cycle | 09:27 |
| anteaya | so we need to keep up this effort | 09:27 |
| anteaya | we don't know if we can make kilo or not | 09:28 |
| anteaya | but if we don't, we need to stay focused and keep working | 09:28 |
| anteaya | since dropping off work due to a release really puts us behind | 09:28 |
| anteaya | so we are going to focus on agreeing to the work first | 09:28 |
| anteaya | and not worry about deadlines for releases | 09:28 |
| belmoreira | anteaya: +1 | 09:29 |
| anteaya | folks on both sides neutron and nova have agreed to this | 09:29 |
| anteaya | so if we see an obstacle we have support to keep working and have folks help to move the obstacle out of the way | 09:29 |
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| anteaya | any more thoughts here or comments? | 09:30 |
| anteaya | I'll take that as no | 09:30 |
| anteaya | and move onto the next topic | 09:30 |
| anteaya | #topic documentation | 09:31 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "documentation (Meeting topic: nova-net-to-neutron-migration)" | 09:31 | |
| anteaya | so in patchset 3 of the neutron spec | 09:31 |
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| anteaya | annegentle_ offered to recommend someone to help with documentation | 09:31 |
| obondarev | so Edgar was willing to help with this | 09:31 |
| anteaya | I think this is a great idea | 09:31 |
| anteaya | obondarev: wonderful | 09:31 |
| anteaya | we can't ahve too much help in documentation | 09:31 |
| obondarev | as he stated here: https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/kilo-nova-nova-network-to-neutron | 09:32 |
| obondarev | didn't have a chance to reach him yet | 09:32 |
| obondarev | agree | 09:32 |
| anteaya | I would like to follow up with annegentle_ to see who she might recommend | 09:32 |
| anteaya | obondarev: great, would you like to follow up? | 09:32 |
| anteaya | obondarev: can you talk with both edgar and annegentle_? | 09:32 |
| obondarev | sure | 09:32 |
| anteaya | better to have too much help in documentation rather than not enough | 09:33 |
| obondarev | I'll reach Edgar shortly | 09:33 |
| anteaya | plus that also gets us more review eyes on patches | 09:33 |
| anteaya | obondarev: great thanks | 09:33 |
| anteaya | let's keep documentation as a regular topic for this meeting | 09:33 |
| obondarev | +1 | 09:33 |
| anteaya | so we can have your report obondarev next week on how you have made out | 09:33 |
| anteaya | great thank you | 09:34 |
| obondarev | sure | 09:34 |
| anteaya | any one have anything else for documentation? | 09:34 |
| jlibosva | nope | 09:34 |
| anteaya | great | 09:34 |
| anteaya | moving on | 09:34 |
| anteaya | #topic testing | 09:34 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "testing (Meeting topic: nova-net-to-neutron-migration)" | 09:34 | |
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| anteaya | so right now the testing portion of the spec is a little thin | 09:35 |
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| obondarev | it is | 09:35 |
| anteaya | that is to be understood as how to test this migration is largely unknown | 09:35 |
| anteaya | belmoreira: have you given any thought to what you would like to see for testing? | 09:35 |
| obondarev | I'd say it's known on a high level | 09:36 |
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| anteaya | obondarev: okay | 09:36 |
| belmoreira | anteaya: what we are looking is if can be sone by stagaes (cell by cell) | 09:36 |
| anteaya | but I think we need some detail | 09:36 |
| anteaya | belmoreira: okay | 09:36 |
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| anteaya | belmoreira: have you made any comments or suggestions in the testing portion of the spec yet? | 09:37 |
| anteaya | sorry I haven't gone though the history of all the comments | 09:37 |
| belmoreira | we can setup "test cells" that we migrate for testing | 09:37 |
| anteaya | belmoreira: we meaning cern or we meaning openstack infra? | 09:37 |
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| belmoreira | anteaya: this is how we at CERN are thinking to test all of this | 09:38 |
| anteaya | belmoreira: great, can you add some comments to the spec outlining what you have thought about for testing from CERN's point of view? | 09:39 |
| belmoreira | anteaya: yes | 09:39 |
| anteaya | infra will be limited regarding what we can test | 09:39 |
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| anteaya | belmoreira: great thank you, that way we can incorporate what processes you can offer into the spec | 09:39 |
| anteaya | is there anything else we can talk about regarding testing right now? | 09:40 |
| anteaya | I think we have a good place to start expanding that section then | 09:41 |
| anteaya | thanks belmoreira | 09:41 |
| anteaya | I'll move on | 09:41 |
| anteaya | #topic Open Discussion | 09:41 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: nova-net-to-neutron-migration)" | 09:41 | |
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| anteaya | does anyone have anything they would like to mention or discuss that we haven't already covered? | 09:41 |
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| jlibosva | I would just like to update I did some work on dump/translate/restore nova db to neutron as per discussion with Oleg | 09:42 |
| anteaya | jlibosva: thank you | 09:42 |
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| obondarev | great! | 09:42 |
| anteaya | have you a link to your work? | 09:42 |
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| jlibosva | nope, only locally. I plan to push WIP once it does some real translation (e.g. translate and create network) | 09:43 |
| anteaya | jlibosva: let's get in the habit of submitting things to gerrit early | 09:43 |
| anteaya | even if they don't work | 09:44 |
| anteaya | and marking them work in progress | 09:44 |
| jlibosva | ok | 09:44 |
| anteaya | thank you | 09:44 |
| anteaya | I think it will save time in the long run | 09:44 |
| anteaya | and help others to see what we are thinking | 09:44 |
| anteaya | and hopefully reduce false starts | 09:44 |
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| anteaya | and let's bring the urls for those wip patches to this meeting | 09:45 |
| anteaya | so we can look at them and discuss them | 09:45 |
| jlibosva | makes sense | 09:45 |
| obondarev | agree | 09:45 |
| anteaya | thanks jlibosva | 09:45 |
| anteaya | and thanks for your work here, I look forward to reviewing the patches | 09:45 |
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| anteaya | I want you to feel supported in your work | 09:46 |
| anteaya | so let's show it off | 09:46 |
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| obondarev | anteaya: many thanks for your help and for for organizing these meetings | 09:46 |
| anteaya | obondarev: my pleasure, glad to help | 09:46 |
| anteaya | and thanks for understanding and supporting my role here | 09:47 |
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| anteaya | :D | 09:47 |
| anteaya | shall we discuss anything else? | 09:47 |
| anteaya | well I think we have had a good second meeting, thanks obondarev for including a log of the first meeting in the ml post | 09:48 |
| obondarev | anteaya: sure | 09:48 |
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| obondarev | thanks everyone for joining! | 09:49 |
| belmoreira | thank you all for this amazing effort | 09:49 |
| anteaya | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2014-December/053522.html | 09:49 |
| anteaya | and on that note, let's conclude the meeting | 09:49 |
| anteaya | see you all next week, don't stay quiet if you encounter blocks | 09:50 |
| anteaya | find someone and get unstuck | 09:50 |
| anteaya | thank you all | 09:50 |
| anteaya | #endmeeting | 09:50 |
| jlibosva | thanks | 09:50 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 09:50 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Jan 13 09:50:28 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 09:50 |
| jlibosva | bye | 09:50 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova_net_to_neutron_migration/2015/nova_net_to_neutron_migration.2015-01-13-09.00.html | 09:50 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova_net_to_neutron_migration/2015/nova_net_to_neutron_migration.2015-01-13-09.00.txt | 09:50 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova_net_to_neutron_migration/2015/nova_net_to_neutron_migration.2015-01-13-09.00.log.html | 09:50 |
| obondarev | bye | 09:50 |
| anteaya | bye | 09:50 |
| belmoreira | bye | 09:51 |
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| mestery | Hi neutron developers and users! | 13:59 |
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| anteaya | o/ | 13:59 |
| ihrachyshka | o/ | 14:00 |
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| kevinbenton | \o | 14:00 |
| amotoki | hi | 14:00 |
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| jlibosva | \o/ | 14:00 |
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| banix | hi | 14:00 |
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| mlavalle | hi | 14:01 |
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| pc_m | Hi | 14:01 |
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| mestery | #startmeeting networking | 14:02 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Jan 13 14:02:12 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is mestery. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 14:02 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 14:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: networking)" | 14:02 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'networking' | 14:02 |
| salv-orlando | aloha | 14:02 |
| mestery | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Network/Meetings Agenda | 14:02 |
| mestery | #topic Announcements | 14:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Announcements (Meeting topic: networking)" | 14:02 | |
| mestery | Kilo-2 is February 5 | 14:02 |
| mestery | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Kilo_Release_Schedule | 14:02 |
| mestery | #link https://launchpad.net/neutron/+milestone/kilo-2 | 14:02 |
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| haypo | salv-orlando: hi. i'm here to discuss python 3 in neutronclient, is it the right place? | 14:03 |
| mestery | We have a lot of BPs targeted here, later in the meeting I want to go over the Essential and High priority ones | 14:03 |
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| mestery | haypo: It is, can we do that later in the meeting please? | 14:03 |
| haypo | mestery: cool. no problem | 14:03 |
| Steap | \o | 14:03 |
| mestery | One other quick announcement: L2 Gateway API meeting is setup | 14:03 |
| mestery | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings#Networking_L2_Gateway_meeting | 14:03 |
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| mestery | Any other announcements from anyone else the team should be aware of? | 14:04 |
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| mestery | If not, we'll move on, the agenda is very thick near the bottom :) | 14:04 |
| mestery | #topic Bugs | 14:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Bugs (Meeting topic: networking)" | 14:04 | |
| mestery | enikanorov enikanorov__: Are you around? | 14:04 |
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| enikanorov__ | mestery: hi | 14:05 |
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| mestery | enikanorov__: Any bugs you are tracking the team should be aware of? | 14:05 |
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| enikanorov__ | yes | 14:06 |
| enikanorov__ | https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/1403291 | 14:06 |
| mestery | I know armax nailed one around a change in oslo.db last night which was causing all kinds of gate failures | 14:06 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1403291 in neutron "test_server_connectivity_pause_unpause fails with "AssertionError: False is not true : Timed out waiting for 172.24.4.64 to become reachable"" [Critical,Confirmed] | 14:06 |
| armax | mestery bug #1403291 | 14:06 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1403291 in neutron "test_server_connectivity_pause_unpause fails with "AssertionError: False is not true : Timed out waiting for 172.24.4.64 to become reachable"" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1403291 | 14:06 |
| enikanorov__ | (was looking for the link) | 14:06 |
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| salv-orlando | I reckon armax was about (or has) root caused it | 14:06 |
| enikanorov__ | so, what was the issue with oslo.db? | 14:06 |
| armax | enikanorov__: I haven’t had a chance to look into it yesterday... | 14:06 |
| kevinbenton | armax: was the that one with the DHCP loss? | 14:06 |
| enikanorov__ | i also didn't manage to find the root cause | 14:07 |
| armax | salv-orlando: not yet, I am still fishing for ideas…from what the logs can tell everything seems to be in order | 14:07 |
| armax | kevinbenton: yes | 14:07 |
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| armax | I have something I want to try, after being unsuccessful with https://review.openstack.org/#/c/146256/ | 14:07 |
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| salv-orlando | armax: the only thing I can say is that I've seen thousands of those logs, and I've never seen messages from iptables dropping DHCP packets. | 14:07 |
| armax | I thought that the debug info would help get us more clue…but with all the recheck I kicked I was unable to get a single failure | 14:08 |
| salv-orlando | anyway, it's good to see there are 2 people on this... I think the agenda is thick today so we should move on | 14:08 |
| enikanorov__ | salv-orlando: but those messages accompanying successful dhcp negotiations too | 14:08 |
| armax | salv-orlando: correct, but that message is totally unrealted | 14:08 |
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| armax | salv-orlando: and if I look at it closely it says to drop a packet coming from the client to the server | 14:09 |
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| armax | and it’s a broadcast too | 14:09 |
| mestery | armax: But you could never trigger this with the tempest patch you proposed above to get more logs? | 14:09 |
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| armax | salv-orlando: I am reading it wrong? What we’re experiencing is a loss of the DHCPOFFER | 14:09 |
| salv-orlando | armax: ok. then the drop of dhcp packets observed is totally unrelated to a dhcp issue manifesting. I think you're doing it right, it must be a coincidence | 14:10 |
| armax | mestery: this is a typical heisenbug, as soon as you start looking at it, it’ll hide in the shadows | 14:10 |
| mestery | :( | 14:10 |
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| mestery | OK, thanks for tackling this one armax, please reach out to anyone you need as you peel back the onion :) | 14:10 |
| kevinbenton | armax: well if the debug happens to fix it, we should merge it anyway to stop the failures :) | 14:10 |
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| mestery | enikanorov__: Any other high priority bugs we should be aware of today? | 14:11 |
| enikanorov__ | mestery: no | 14:11 |
| mestery | enikanorov__: Thank you! | 14:11 |
| mestery | #topic Docs | 14:11 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Docs (Meeting topic: networking)" | 14:11 | |
| mestery | emagana: Any updates for today? | 14:11 |
| armax | kevinbenton: I suspect there will be plenty of people who oppose the idea…but it might as well be that that patch put timings in a way that the bug doesn’t show up | 14:11 |
| mestery | In lieu of emagana not being around, lets move on, the agenda gets thick and contentious rather soon. :) | 14:12 |
| mestery | #topic Plugin Decomposition Status and Updates | 14:12 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Plugin Decomposition Status and Updates (Meeting topic: networking)" | 14:12 | |
| mestery | I wanted this on the agenda, and we'll likely do this every few weeks or so. | 14:12 |
| mestery | #link http://specs.openstack.org/openstack/neutron-specs/specs/kilo/core-vendor-decomposition.html | 14:13 |
| mestery | As everyone knows, this spec merged. | 14:13 |
| armax | mestery: some folks have taken actions, which is good | 14:13 |
| mestery | I know some people are in various states of implementing this for their plugins (yay!), and others are not (boo :() | 14:13 |
| mestery | armax: Yes | 14:13 |
| mestery | I wanted to do a few things here: | 14:13 |
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| mestery | 1) Allow for questions from folks. 2) Let people speak up with their success as they do this. 3) Let the leader of this effort (armax) have a moment to give us an overview of where he thinks things are at. | 14:13 |
| mestery | armax: You want to go first? :) | 14:14 |
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| armax | I am no much of a leader, but ok | 14:14 |
| armax | :) | 14:14 |
| armax | as I said we’ve had a number of folks starting | 14:14 |
| armax | at the moment the things that I am looking at when I do reviews is to ensure that bug fixes or changes do not step on each others toes | 14:15 |
| mestery | armax: I know you and I have been reviewing stackforge creation reviews as well. | 14:16 |
| mestery | armax: One question I wanted clarified here is this: | 14:16 |
| armax | so when fixing or changing things, people should keep in mind that ultimately the code they’re touching may end up elsewhere and they should act accordingly | 14:16 |
| mestery | Are we now letting people create stackforge without the branches? | 14:16 |
| mestery | *stackforge projects | 14:16 |
| kevinbenton | mestery: are you referring to stable/x branches? | 14:16 |
| armax | mestery: imo stable branches can be optional, but since the effort in mirroring them to the stackforge repo is minimal | 14:17 |
| mestery | kevinbenton: Yes | 14:17 |
| armax | mestery: I don’t see why people leave them behind | 14:17 |
| mestery | armax: I agree with that sentiment | 14:17 |
| mestery | armax: Me either, but I've noticed more and more people are, and I just wanted to understand the official position from the spec author ;) | 14:17 |
| armax | mestery: especially if people follow the instructions in the docref as a bible | 14:17 |
| armax | that said, stackforge is one option, but not the only one | 14:17 |
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| armax | midonet is going without stackforge | 14:17 |
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| armax | mestery: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/145792/ | 14:18 |
| mestery | #info When creating a stackforge repository for your plugin/driver backend to comply with Plugin Decomposition, bringing along stable branches is optional. | 14:18 |
| armax | and that is perfectly valid too | 14:18 |
| mestery | Yes, cool! I like to see multiple options here. | 14:18 |
| anteaya | if we could have folks acknowledge in the commit message their choice, that would help | 14:18 |
| kevinbenton | we are requiring that it be open source somewhere, right? | 14:19 |
| mestery | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/145792/ | 14:19 |
| mestery | kevinbenton: Yes | 14:19 |
| anteaya | as in "we choose to leave the stable branch behind" | 14:19 |
| armax | anteaya: you beat me to it, I was going to say! | 14:19 |
| anteaya | then reviewers know they are aware | 14:19 |
| anteaya | armax: :D | 14:19 |
| armax | as infra ultimately are the ones who approve the stackforge patch | 14:19 |
| armax | if one goes the stackforge route | 14:19 |
| salv-orlando | armax: if you're an atheist you would not follow anything as a 'bible' ;) | 14:19 |
| armax | so it’s best to be proactive and tell them | 14:19 |
| anteaya | based on what you want | 14:19 |
| mestery | #info When creating your stackforge project, please indicate in the commit message your intent to carry stable branches. | 14:19 |
| anteaya | we just need to know | 14:19 |
| armax | salv-orlando: sorry, rulebook | 14:19 |
| mestery | anteaya: Thanks for bringing that up here! | 14:20 |
| armax | mestery: or lack thereof | 14:20 |
| anteaya | sure | 14:20 |
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| mestery | armax: true | 14:20 |
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| mestery | Any questions from anyone undergoing plugin decomposition that is hitting a wall somewhere? | 14:20 |
| armax | mestery: I still need to complete the docref with a few other aspects | 14:20 |
| mestery | armax: True, and thanks! | 14:20 |
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| armax | mestery: I’ll get to it asap | 14:21 |
| amotoki | what is the preferred way to track status per plugin? filing a bug? | 14:21 |
| mestery | I should note that armax and I made some good progress on the ODL decomposition yesterday, I expect today we should have the ODL ML2 driver decomposed. | 14:21 |
| mestery | amotoki: Yes, a wishlist bug for the neutron commit | 14:21 |
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| amotoki | mestery: thanks for the clarification. i swa ODL filed a bug. | 14:21 |
| mestery | #info To track the neutron side of your plugin decomposition, please file a bug. It will be marked as Wishlist and you can use that for the commit in neutron. | 14:21 |
| armax | amotoki: see https://review.openstack.org/#/c/145792/ | 14:21 |
| armax | too | 14:22 |
| mestery | Thanks armax for your work here! | 14:22 |
| mestery | If anyone has quiestions, please reach out to armax or myself. | 14:22 |
| mestery | Like I said, we'll do this every week so people ahve a standing slot to discuss any issues they are facing. | 14:23 |
| salv-orlando | mestery: for what is worth we have the decomposed plugin working. We're just waiting to make sure the CI is up and running also on the other vmware plugin we added and then maybe we'll just leave about 10 lines of code for integration | 14:23 |
| ajo | hi, joining late :/ | 14:23 |
| salv-orlando | or perhaps 10 thousands :) | 14:23 |
| mestery | salv-orlando: It's a small difference either way ;) | 14:23 |
| armax | salv-orlando: you’re always the funny one | 14:23 |
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| mestery | OK, lets move on if there is nothing else here. | 14:24 |
| mestery | The thick part of the agenda awaits! | 14:24 |
| mestery | #topic Kilo-2 Specs of "Essential" and "High" Priority | 14:24 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Kilo-2 Specs of "Essential" and "High" Priority (Meeting topic: networking)" | 14:24 | |
| mestery | I wanted to walk through these now. | 14:24 |
| mestery | #link https://launchpad.net/neutron/+milestone/kilo-2 | 14:24 |
| mestery | To get an idea of where they are at, given we have 3 weeks left and the gate is getting more and more backlogged with each passing day. | 14:25 |
| mestery | First one: | 14:25 |
| mestery | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/neutron/+spec/wsgi-pecan-switch | 14:25 |
| mestery | kevinbenton: This one is yours, you lucky guy ;) | 14:25 |
| mestery | Have you had a chance to start on this one yet this week ? | 14:25 |
| kevinbenton | mestery: yes, this depends on the internal refactor | 14:25 |
| mestery | kevinbenton: You mean the next one on the list https://blueprints.launchpad.net/neutron/+spec/plugin-interface-perestroika | 14:26 |
| mestery | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/neutron/+spec/plugin-interface-perestroika | 14:26 |
| kevinbenton | yes | 14:26 |
| mestery | salv-orlando: That one belongs to you (lucky guy #2)! | 14:26 |
| mestery | :) | 14:26 |
| salv-orlando | mestery I am the proposer | 14:26 |
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| salv-orlando | I think the main author is still markmcclain, with me in the role of code monkey | 14:26 |
| mestery | salv-orlando: Ack, just looking for a status update. | 14:26 |
| kevinbenton | salv-orlando: how is the code monkeying coming? | 14:27 |
| mestery | For these two specs, if we don't see code landing by next week, I fear they will miss Kilo-2 | 14:27 |
| salv-orlando | Indeed I have not done absolutely any work on it. I hope there will be some when kevinbenton and markmcclain do their syncup | 14:27 |
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| mestery | Per discussions with marun, I'd like to see these land in Kilo-2 so we can have Kilo-3 to sort any issues out. | 14:27 |
| salv-orlando | mestery: I don't know what to say. did kevinbenton speak with makr? | 14:27 |
| salv-orlando | * mark | 14:27 |
| mestery | I think the plan is now for kevinbenton to just go to it | 14:27 |
| mestery | So we can make progress. | 14:27 |
| kevinbenton | salv-orlando: no, i haven't been able to land a meeting slot with him | 14:27 |
| mestery | kevinbenton: You have my authorization to move forward at this point, let me know what you need :) | 14:28 |
| armax | mestery: +1 | 14:28 |
| ajo | sounds reasonable | 14:28 |
| armax | there’s no point in keep on waiting now | 14:28 |
| kevinbenton | mestery: ack, so salv-orlando, did you want to start putting something together for the internal plugin interface? | 14:28 |
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| mestery | kevinbenton: marun has volunteered to work with you here as well, especially in bouncing ideas, etc. | 14:29 |
| mestery | OK, lets move on to the next one. | 14:29 |
| mestery | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/neutron/+spec/reorganize-unit-test-tree | 14:29 |
| salv-orlando | kevinbenton: I will. I won't be afraid of pushing pointless and terrible code so we can work together on it to make it proper code | 14:29 |
| mestery | That one is assigned to marun, armax, do you by chance know if he's started on this yet? | 14:30 |
| kevinbenton | salv-orlando: sounds great! | 14:30 |
| salv-orlando | besides, that what I reguarly do | 14:30 |
| mestery | salv-orlando: lol | 14:30 |
| armax | mestery: I spoke with marun the other day | 14:30 |
| armax | mestery: the effort is pretty mechanical for the reorganize-unit-test-tree bp | 14:30 |
| mestery | armax: Ack, sounds like it's under control then, thanks! | 14:31 |
| armax | mestery: it’s a matter to get some focussed time and get it done | 14:31 |
| ajo | mestery: I believe it was his intention, but not sure if started. | 14:31 |
| ajo | yes, just moving files around | 14:31 |
| mestery | ajo: thanks! | 14:31 |
| mestery | OK, next one | 14:31 |
| mestery | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/neutron/+spec/restructure-l2-agent | 14:31 |
| mestery | rossella_s owns this one, I haven't seen any code for this yet. | 14:31 |
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| rossella_s | Unfortunately not much progress on my side. Anyway completing the blueprint will be my priority for the next weeks, I will send a first patch in the next days. If anybody is interesting in contributing, please contact me. | 14:31 |
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| mestery | rossella_s: Yay! Thank you for the update! | 14:31 |
| mestery | Next up (moving quickly): | 14:32 |
| mestery | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/neutron/+spec/rootwrap-daemon-mode | 14:32 |
| mestery | otherwiseguy: This one is yours now I believe. | 14:32 |
| mestery | otherwiseguy: Looks like you've made a start on this one now, thanks for that! | 14:32 |
| mestery | Next up | 14:32 |
| ajo | that's what I know, mestery :) he is focused on that | 14:32 |
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| mestery | ajo: Cool! | 14:33 |
| mestery | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/neutron/+spec/retargetable-functional-testing | 14:33 |
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| mestery | I spoke with marun on this yesterday, he has a plan for this and is documenting it on the wiki | 14:33 |
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| mestery | #infoI spoke with marun on this yesterday, he has a plan for this and is documenting it on the wiki | 14:33 |
| mestery | Next one: | 14:33 |
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| mestery | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/neutron/+spec/refactor-iptables-firewall-driver | 14:33 |
| mestery | ajo: This one is assigned to you I believe? | 14:33 |
| marios | mestery: have some functional tests going for the ovs agent related to the spec rossella_s mentioned https://review.openstack.org/#/c/140042/ | 14:33 |
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| armax | mestery: we’re still shaking some issues with infra | 14:33 |
| ajo | Hmm, mestery , I need to split the patch in three | 14:34 |
| mestery | Bleah! Sorry marios :) | 14:34 |
| mestery | ajo: OK, cool! | 14:34 |
| ajo | mestery, will do during this week to have it ready for merge | 14:34 |
| mestery | marios: Thanks! | 14:34 |
| armax | mestery: re the retargetable-functional-testing | 14:34 |
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| mestery | armax: Ack | 14:34 |
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| mestery | Thanks ajo! | 14:34 |
| mestery | Next up: | 14:34 |
| mestery | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/neutron/+spec/vsctl-to-ovsdb | 14:34 |
| armax | mestery: once that’s cleared, it should be downhill… :) | 14:34 |
| mestery | otherwiseguy has some patches out for this one as well, so it's looking good | 14:34 |
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| ajo | hmm mestery | 14:35 |
| mestery | ajo: ??? | 14:35 |
| ajo | about the refactor-iptables-driver bp, It's assigned to me, but the work I have done is not referenced to that spec | 14:35 |
| ajo | it was a general cleanup before that | 14:35 |
| ajo | not sure who's working on that specific spec | 14:35 |
| ajo | jakub? | 14:36 |
| jlibosva | I'm just looking at it | 14:36 |
| salv-orlando | so what is your work related to? | 14:36 |
| ajo | jlibosva ^ | 14:36 |
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| jlibosva | seems like the specs what I proposed | 14:36 |
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| mestery | jlibosva: Shall I move that one to you then? | 14:36 |
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| jlibosva | mestery: yes please, thanks | 14:36 |
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| ajo | salv-orlando my patch is to the current iptables firewall driver, to cleanup lots of small inconsistencies and code which could be refactored but without rearchitecturing | 14:36 |
| jlibosva | I'll sync with ajo after meeting | 14:36 |
| ajo | ack | 14:36 |
| salv-orlando | ajo: thanks | 14:37 |
| mestery | jlibosva: Done, thanks! | 14:37 |
| mestery | OK, moving on | 14:37 |
| mestery | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/neutron/+spec/lbaas-api-and-objmodel-improvement | 14:37 |
| mestery | dougwig has informed me he and blogan and team are on this and expect to get this one done by Kilo-2 | 14:37 |
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| mestery | That work is all being done in neutron-lbaas | 14:38 |
| mestery | Next up | 14:38 |
| mestery | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/neutron/+spec/restructure-l3-agent | 14:38 |
| mestery | carl_baldwin: You have a lot of working going on here :) | 14:38 |
| carl_baldwin | We’re actively working the meaty part | 14:38 |
| mestery | carl_baldwin: Yay! | 14:38 |
| ajo | yeah, amazing work carl_baldwin | 14:38 |
| carl_baldwin | Kilo-2 will be tight for completion but we should be over the hump | 14:39 |
| mestery | carl_baldwin: Excellent, we can deal with the logistics of kilo-2 vs. kilo-3 when we get there, but sounds like the majority of the work will make kilo-2. great! | 14:39 |
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| carl_baldwin | There are a number of contributors doing good work. | 14:39 |
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| sc68cal | ++ | 14:39 |
| mestery | Excellent! | 14:40 |
| mestery | OK, moving on (mestery keeps his eye on the clock ...) | 14:40 |
| mestery | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/neutron/+spec/neutron-ovs-dvr-vlan | 14:40 |
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| mestery | I spoke to Vivek, and he has pushed the patch which implements this, his next patch will add the unit tests for this change | 14:40 |
| mestery | So, this appears to be in good shape. | 14:40 |
| armax | mestery: that one is gettign there, I need to do a code review | 14:40 |
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| mestery | And with that, we're done reviewing all Essential and High priority BPs! | 14:40 |
| mestery | armax: Thanks! | 14:41 |
| armax | but I’ll tail Vivek, in case he’s getting lost in the weeds :) | 14:41 |
| mestery | I encourage all reviewers to really focus review time on these BPs, especially if your review bandwidth is limited in the coming weeks | 14:41 |
| mestery | Thanks to all the contributors here, this is all outstanding work! | 14:41 |
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| mestery | Any questions on BPs at this point? | 14:42 |
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| ajo | I would be grateful for some review on the ProcessMonitoring stuff, I need to rebase it on the last l3-agent refactors today... | 14:42 |
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| ajo | I'd love it not to slip over another release :) | 14:42 |
| ihrachyshka | yeah, that one took too long already | 14:42 |
| salv-orlando | ajo: yes, sorry about that. | 14:42 |
| mestery | ajo: Cool, we'll make sure to land that | 14:42 |
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| mestery | Thanks salv-orlando! | 14:42 |
| mestery | OK, lets move on then. | 14:43 |
| ajo | salv-orlando, no problem, lot of moving grounds with the refactors, that also slow me down doing rebases all the time :) | 14:43 |
| mestery | #topic nova-network to neutron migration | 14:43 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "nova-network to neutron migration (Meeting topic: networking)" | 14:43 | |
| mestery | anteaya: This is your part of the meeting I believe :) | 14:43 |
| anteaya | it is | 14:43 |
| mestery | I also hope obondarev is here today as well ;) | 14:43 |
| anteaya | hello | 14:43 |
| obondarev | yep | 14:43 |
| anteaya | we have a meeting | 14:43 |
| anteaya | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/Nova-nettoNeutronMigration | 14:44 |
| anteaya | and we met 5 hours ago | 14:44 |
| anteaya | #link http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova_net_to_neutron_migration/ | 14:44 |
| anteaya | and it was productive | 14:44 |
| mestery | anteaya: Yay, excellent! | 14:44 |
| anteaya | the summary is that obondarev and belmoreira and markmcclain and angus will all be working on the spec | 14:44 |
| anteaya | and we expect a new patchset before the end of thursday new zleand time | 14:45 |
| mestery | anteaya: Double yay, nice! | 14:45 |
| anteaya | and nova and mark have agreed that we need to stop ceasing work around releases | 14:45 |
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| mestery | anteaya: I don't follow that, what does that mean? | 14:46 |
| anteaya | this needs to continue to be ap ont of focus is we don't make kilo | 14:46 |
| anteaya | that means that so far we work if we think we can make the realease and then stop working on this effort if we cna't | 14:46 |
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| armax | anteaya: I wish we could just stop addressing the ‘general’ problem and just get these big players that do need to migrate step up and lead technically themselves | 14:46 |
| mestery | anteaya: OK, got it | 14:46 |
| anteaya | until the next realease | 14:46 |
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| anteaya | so mikal suggested we just barral through and focus on getting the work done | 14:47 |
| anteaya | and there was agreement | 14:47 |
| anteaya | we had a face to face on monday | 14:47 |
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| * mestery thinks anteaya must be at LinuxConfAu | 14:47 | |
| anteaya | mikal took nots on an ehterapd wil the intention of making it public | 14:47 |
| anteaya | I am | 14:47 |
| anteaya | and that hastn'happened yet | 14:47 |
| anteaya | so hopefully the link will be posted to the mailing list today | 14:48 |
| anteaya | I'll remind mikal | 14:48 |
| anteaya | I think that is it unless there are questions | 14:48 |
| anteaya | armax: well cern is doing what they think we expect of them | 14:48 |
| mestery | thanks anteaya, please make sure an email with that etherpad comes out, I really want the CERN folks to review that, they are the only people interested in this who I am aware of that have come forward | 14:49 |
| armax | anteaya: forgive my question, but what is cern doing, exactly? | 14:49 |
| mestery | Without their input, we'll be missing hte mark for the target user | 14:49 |
| anteaya | mestery: yes | 14:49 |
| anteaya | well belmoreira is going to outline their thoughts on testing in teh spec | 14:49 |
| anteaya | so it can make it into the next iteration | 14:49 |
| anteaya | armax: cern has a developer attending meetings and offering testing resources | 14:50 |
| anteaya | and reviewing the spec, answering questions and asking them too | 14:50 |
| mestery | Thanks anteaya | 14:50 |
| anteaya | np | 14:50 |
| mestery | Lets move on now, there are two items left and only 10 minutes in the meeting. | 14:50 |
| mestery | #topic Compiling a list of Neutron upgrades implementation status and known problems | 14:50 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Compiling a list of Neutron upgrades implementation status and known problems (Meeting topic: networking)" | 14:50 | |
| xek | hi, first I wanted to ask, what is the status of oslo.versionedobjects adoption in Neutron? | 14:50 |
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| mestery | xek: Is this your section, did you add this to the agenda? | 14:51 |
| armax | anteaya: thanks, I am still not convinced this is going to get where we want to be, but ok | 14:51 |
| xek | mestery, yes | 14:51 |
| anteaya | armax: acknowledged | 14:51 |
| xek | versioned-objects deal with DB schema being at a different version than the code expects and allows for rolling upgrades | 14:51 |
| ihrachyshka | xek, afaik it was not even discussed at that point | 14:51 |
| mestery | xek: Cool, thanks. salv-orlando, being our oslo liasion, can you answer xek? | 14:51 |
| mestery | ihrachyshka: thanks :) | 14:51 |
| xek | (with different code bases running at the same time) | 14:51 |
| salv-orlando | mestery: ihrachyshka is the oslo guy now | 14:51 |
| xek | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/heat/+spec/versioned-objects | 14:51 |
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| salv-orlando | I'm the guy for all the pointless things | 14:51 |
| xek | currently, work on versioned-objects adoption is done in Heat | 14:52 |
| xek | http://specs.openstack.org/openstack/heat-specs/specs/kilo/versioned-objects | 14:52 |
| xek | this can be a reference implementation for Neutron | 14:52 |
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| ihrachyshka | xek, so I have the library in my todo list, but I haven't checked it, yet | 14:52 |
| mestery | xek: This looks interesting, but at this point, we'd have to do this work in Lxxx | 14:52 |
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| mestery | xek: Once Heat's work lands, that could be a model for us. ihrachyshka, does that sound reasonable to you? | 14:53 |
| ihrachyshka | yes, a lot of oslo work just to keep up with oslo team inventions in existing libs | 14:53 |
| ihrachyshka | yes, we'll return to that in L | 14:53 |
| xek | I will submit a spec for this and see how it goes, ok? | 14:53 |
| mestery | xek: That's fine, but please note we won't open up Lxxx specs in neutron until we're near the end of Kilo. | 14:53 |
| mestery | xek: So the spec may sit dormant with a -2 from someone until then, FYI. | 14:54 |
| ihrachyshka | xek, there is no subtree for L yet in neutron-specs, but yeah, we can discuss it for now. | 14:54 |
| xek | mestery, ok, thanks for the info | 14:54 |
| xek | I'm also looking for pointers to efforts of implementing live upgrades neutron->neutron (whithout downtime and additional hardware) | 14:54 |
| mestery | #info xek to file spec around oslo.versionedobjects for Neutron for inclusion in Lxxx | 14:54 |
| sc68cal | I did push a review req to specs to create a "drafts" in the tree, that could be useful for future looking specs | 14:54 |
| sc68cal | https://review.openstack.org/145545 | 14:54 |
| mestery | sc68cal: Thanks for the reminder there! | 14:54 |
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| ajo | sc68cal++ | 14:55 |
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| *** killer_prince is now known as lazy_prince | 14:56 | |
| mestery | OK thanks xek! We'll talk more about live upgrade in Vancouver for Lxxx I suspect. | 14:56 |
| mestery | #topic Open Discussion | 14:56 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: networking)" | 14:56 | |
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| mestery | 4 minutes left now | 14:56 |
| xek | lets move on | 14:56 |
| mestery | Someone wanted to discuss python 3.3 for the client? | 14:56 |
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| Steap | oh | 14:56 |
| Steap | yes | 14:56 |
| Steap | haypo: ^ | 14:56 |
| mestery | haypo: This was you? | 14:56 |
| Steap | and I :) | 14:57 |
| Steap | We got the client working with Pyhon 3 | 14:57 |
| mestery | Steap: :) | 14:57 |
| Steap | we'd like to enable the gate now | 14:57 |
| mestery | salv-orlando: You had comments here? | 14:57 |
| Steap | see https://review.openstack.org/#/c/145430/ | 14:57 |
| salv-orlando | i think we should do that. I just wanted to announce publicly we were doing it | 14:57 |
| salv-orlando | sort of "speak now or shut up forever" | 14:57 |
| mestery | Works for me. Anyone not in favor of this? | 14:57 |
| mestery | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/145430/ | 14:57 |
| mestery | #info We plan to enable Python 3 support in the gate for python-neutronclient | 14:58 |
| mestery | That was easy :) | 14:58 |
| Steap | yes :) | 14:58 |
| mestery | Thanks Steap and haypo! | 14:58 |
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| salv-orlando | my -1 became a +1 | 14:58 |
| lukasa_work | +1 thanks! | 14:58 |
| mestery | salv-orlando: Cool! | 14:58 |
| mestery | OK, thanks everyone! | 14:58 |
| mestery | We have lots of great work going on, keep it up! | 14:58 |
| salv-orlando | come on say it say it | 14:58 |
| salv-orlando | end .... ing | 14:58 |
| mestery | We'll see you next week and on IRC and the ML! :) | 14:59 |
| mestery | #endmeeting | 14:59 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 14:59 | |
| mestery | lol | 14:59 |
| salv-orlando | yeaaahhh | 14:59 |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Jan 13 14:59:03 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 14:59 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/networking/2015/networking.2015-01-13-14.02.html | 14:59 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/networking/2015/networking.2015-01-13-14.02.txt | 14:59 |
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| mestery | salv-orlando: :P | 14:59 |
| salv-orlando | adieuuuu | 14:59 |
| ajo | lol :) | 14:59 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/networking/2015/networking.2015-01-13-14.02.log.html | 14:59 |
| lukasa_work | o/ | 14:59 |
| mlavalle | bye | 14:59 |
| armax | bye | 14:59 |
| marios | o/ | 14:59 |
| ajo | thank you :) | 14:59 |
| ajo | bye | 14:59 |
| jlibosva | bye | 14:59 |
| amotoki | bye | 14:59 |
| xek | bye | 14:59 |
| obondarev | bye | 14:59 |
| numan | numan, bye | 14:59 |
| kevinbenton | bye | 14:59 |
| vikram | bye | 14:59 |
| carl_baldwin | bye | 14:59 |
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| n0ano | #startmeeting gantt | 15:00 |
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| openstack | Meeting started Tue Jan 13 15:00:27 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is n0ano. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 15:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 15:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: gantt)" | 15:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'gantt' | 15:00 |
| n0ano | anyone here to talk about the scheduler | 15:00 |
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| alex_xu | o/ | 15:00 |
| edleafe | \o | 15:00 |
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| n0ano | I was hoping bauzas was around, let's wait just a minute | 15:02 |
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| alex_xu | yea | 15:02 |
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| edleafe | just posted a quick note on #openstack-nova | 15:02 |
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| n0ano | edleafe, beat me too it :-) | 15:03 |
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| n0ano | in that case, let's do things in a slightly different order | 15:04 |
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| n0ano | #topic Topics for mid-cycle meetup | 15:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Topics for mid-cycle meetup (Meeting topic: gantt)" | 15:04 | |
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| n0ano | have people been thinking on this? Right now my main topic is the split at the start of L | 15:04 |
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| n0ano | (assuming we get everything implmented in Kilo) | 15:05 |
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| edleafe | I've had some talks with jaypipes, and we were hoping to clarify the interface of the scheduler | 15:05 |
| alex_xu | n0ano: what need to do for split? we will have any doc describe that, or that will flush out in mid-cycle? | 15:05 |
| edleafe | IOW, what exactly a separated scheduler would look like to anything that wanted to use it | 15:06 |
| n0ano | alex_xu, I would hope any doc would mainly be internal descriptions, the goal is a drop in replacement with minimal impact, maybe some config changes is all | 15:06 |
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| n0ano | edleafe, would be good to talk about that as I would hope the L cycle will be `what we have now', the M cycle is where we can look at making things more palatable for other projects | 15:07 |
| jaypipes | hey guys, sorry for being late | 15:07 |
| alex_xu | n0ano: ok | 15:08 |
| n0ano | jaypipes, NP, just talking about what we might talk about at the mid-cycle, can you see the history? | 15:08 |
| edleafe | n0ano: understood; I just think that that's backwards | 15:08 |
| edleafe | if we define the interface that will be useful to other projects, we will know exactly what we need to clean up | 15:08 |
| bauzas | \o | 15:09 |
| bauzas | oops | 15:09 |
| bauzas | for some reason, I had no sound | 15:09 |
| n0ano | edleafe, given the goal of minimal impact to Nova on the first split I don't think we want to make many (if any) changes in L interfaces | 15:09 |
| bauzas | so, you're discussing about the split ? | 15:10 |
| n0ano | sounds like we have 2 good discussion topics for the split: | 15:11 |
| n0ano | 1) specifics of the L split | 15:11 |
| edleafe | n0ano: whether you change them now or not is one issue. We should really know where we want to end up, though | 15:11 |
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| jaypipes | n0ano: at the start if L, we need the interfaces to the scheduler that update the scheduler's view of the world to be public and versioned. | 15:11 |
| n0ano | 2) what is the longer term intefaces | 15:11 |
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| n0ano | jaypipes, I would think that the result of the Kilo cycle to to do just that | 15:12 |
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| bauzas | n0ano: agreed | 15:12 |
| bauzas | n0ano: provided that jaypipes's BP would be merged | 15:12 |
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| bauzas | n0ano: and mine about request_spec | 15:12 |
| jaypipes | n0ano: well, we are currently at an impasse with regards to any agreement on when and how the scheduler's view of resource consumption changes should be done. | 15:13 |
| n0ano | bauzas, both specs were approved so of course the code will be merged :-) | 15:13 |
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| bauzas | n0ano: I share your enthusiasm | 15:13 |
| edleafe | jaypipes: which makes it a perfect topic for the mid-cycle! :) | 15:13 |
| jaypipes | indeed. | 15:13 |
| n0ano | edleafe, +1 | 15:13 |
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| edleafe | we're not trying to settle it right now | 15:13 |
| bauzas | don't we have an approved BP about isolating how the scheduler is getting resources ? | 15:13 |
| bauzas | anyway, let's discuss it during the midcycle, agreed | 15:14 |
| jaypipes | bauzas: not approved, AFAIK | 15:14 |
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| bauzas | jaypipes: which one do you refer ? edleafe's, mine or yours ? | 15:15 |
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| bauzas | anyway, we're nitpicking, let's discuss this during midcycle | 15:15 |
| jaypipes | k | 15:15 |
| n0ano | in that case, switching gears: | 15:16 |
| n0ano | #topic 1)Remove direct nova DB/API access by Scheduler Filters - https://review.opernstack.org/138444/ | 15:16 |
| bauzas | we should get a better view of what's planned and what's mergede | 15:16 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "1)Remove direct nova DB/API access by Scheduler Filters - https://review.opernstack.org/138444/ (Meeting topic: gantt)" | 15:16 | |
| bauzas | I really dislike this commit title but that's life :) | 15:16 |
| n0ano | bauzas, I believe you have some issues | 15:16 |
| bauzas | the description is self sufficient | 15:16 |
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| bauzas | yeah, sorry about being late today | 15:17 |
| bauzas | so | 15:17 |
| bauzas | does anyone readed the spec ? | 15:17 |
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| edleafe | bauzas: Hey, I changed it in the spec itself... :) | 15:17 |
| jaypipes | I am re-reading it again now. | 15:17 |
| n0ano | bauzas, I +1'd the last-1 version, does that count | 15:18 |
| bauzas | yeah I suggest to take 5 mins for reading the proposal and my comment | 15:18 |
| edleafe | jaypipes: it follows the direction we discussed | 15:18 |
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| bauzas | so, tl;dr the problem is that the compute manager is claiming, not the scheduler | 15:19 |
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| bauzas | so by the proposal, the resources would be updated when booting the instance | 15:19 |
| edleafe | boot/resize/destroy | 15:20 |
| bauzas | which is far different from the existing, where the update is coming by a DB update | 15:20 |
| bauzas | edleafe: indeed, but the race condition is still there | 15:20 |
| n0ano | bauzas, yeah, don't we currently have the same race, the compute updates the DB and the scheduler reads the DB, still a race there | 15:21 |
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| bauzas | n0ano: nope, because scheduler reads the DB *after* the DB is updated | 15:21 |
| bauzas | n0ano: here the proposal is to read the DB *before* the DB is updated | 15:22 |
| edleafe | bauzas: it could read, make a decision, and the DB could change in between | 15:22 |
| alex_xu | bauzas: the comment you said is pretty close the ironic bug we disscused on the ML? because there are two place to validate resource? | 15:22 |
| bauzas | alex_xu: that's related indeed | 15:22 |
| jaypipes | I'm +1 on edleafe's latest version. | 15:22 |
| bauzas | jaypipes: good to know but that doesn't change my view :) | 15:22 |
| jaypipes | bauzas: I responded to your concern. | 15:23 |
| alex_xu | emm....not involved by this spec, already existed in current code | 15:23 |
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| bauzas | jaypipes: your proposal looks good in theory | 15:24 |
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| bauzas | jaypipes: because it means that we keep track of the pending requests | 15:25 |
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| bauzas | jaypipes: but in practice, HostStateManager is not persisted | 15:25 |
| jaypipes | bauzas: it doesn't need to be. | 15:25 |
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| n0ano | jaypipes, maybe you can expand on why it doesn't need to be persisted | 15:28 |
| alex_xu | jaypipes: but we can run multiple schedulers? | 15:28 |
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| bauzas | jaypipes: the trick works for aggregates because we regenerate the HostState from the DB | 15:29 |
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| jaypipes | n0ano: because the source of truth for the state of an instance is the compute node itself. if the scheduler goes down, it should re-establish its view of pending instances by querying the compute API. | 15:29 |
| bauzas | jaypipes: but here, as it wouldn't be persisted, we would not have the information about pending requests for a new request | 15:30 |
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| jaypipes | bauzas: why not? we can make a call to the compute API to get pending instances grouped by host. | 15:30 |
| bauzas | jaypipes: there is a huge difference between ComputeNode.get_all() and Instance.get_all() you know | 15:30 |
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| bauzas | jaypipes: oh, so you would need to persist information about pending instances | 15:30 |
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| jaypipes | bauzas: there already is persisted information: it's in the ionstances table in the Nova DB. | 15:31 |
| bauzas | jaypipes: as I said, that wouldn't be performance happy | 15:31 |
| jaypipes | bauzas: just query the compute API to get pending instances for each host on scheduler startup. | 15:31 |
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| bauzas | jaypipes: how do you get that list of instance ids ? | 15:31 |
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| jaypipes | unfortunately, I need to attend another meeting right nwo :( | 15:32 |
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| jaypipes | bauzas: you get that list of instance objects via a call to compute API. | 15:32 |
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| bauzas | ok, I think your proposal looks good but the devil is in the details | 15:32 |
| bauzas | it looks good because the logic is quite the same as for the aggregates spec, which I'm fine | 15:32 |
| bauzas | but again, let's dicuss that later off the meeting | 15:33 |
| n0ano | do we need to continue this on IRC later when jaypipes is available again? | 15:33 |
| bauzas | jaypipes: edleafe: you ok ? | 15:33 |
| bauzas | n0ano: huge +1 | 15:33 |
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| edleafe | yes | 15:33 |
| n0ano | jaypipes, do you know when you'll be available again? | 15:33 |
| jaypipes | n0ano: probably best to do a google hangout, maybe thursday? | 15:33 |
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| n0ano | jaypipes, that late, I was hoping this afternoon, but if that's the soonest we can do that | 15:34 |
| bauzas | jaypipes: the spec freeze period ends 2 weeks before K2 | 15:34 |
| bauzas | ergh | 15:34 |
| jaypipes | we need to put together a more detailed doc IMO on the end scheduler interfaces that we want to expose | 15:35 |
| bauzas | *spec freeze exception period | 15:35 |
| edleafe | Today sucks for me; tomorrow or Thurs is OK | 15:35 |
| bauzas | jaypipes: fine by me (for the interfaces doc) | 15:35 |
| jaypipes | n0ano: I have one meeting after another, from now until 6pm :( | 15:35 |
| n0ano | jaypipes, I feel your pain, let's see if we can get a common time tomorrow | 15:35 |
| jaypipes | n0ano: tomorrow, I am afk until noonish EST, afterwards, I'm good to go | 15:36 |
| edleafe | n0ano: I'm flexible tomorrow | 15:36 |
| bauzas | think about EU people \o | 15:36 |
| alex_xu | asia people can join o/? | 15:36 |
| edleafe | timezones are hard | 15:36 |
| alex_xu | but it's fine my time is too hard for your guys | 15:36 |
| bauzas | edleafe: you're PST ? | 15:37 |
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| alex_xu | I can check the comment on the gerrit | 15:37 |
| edleafe | bauzas: CST | 15:37 |
| edleafe | Texas | 15:37 |
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| n0ano | bummer, it's late afternoon EU right now so an afternoon EST is bad, what about thurs morning EST | 15:37 |
| bauzas | edleafe: ack, -8 from CET | 15:37 |
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| bauzas | eh, -7 even | 15:37 |
| edleafe | bauzas: yep | 15:37 |
| bauzas | PST, MST, CST, EST right ? | 15:38 |
| bauzas | from west to east ? | 15:38 |
| edleafe | UTC-6 | 15:38 |
| edleafe | bauzas: correct | 15:38 |
| n0ano | bauzas, yep (I'm MST) | 15:38 |
| bauzas | edleafe: ok so CET-7 (I'm UTC+1 during winter period) | 15:38 |
| jaypipes | n0ano: I have a Thursday 11-12pm EST, otherwise open | 15:38 |
| bauzas | lemme check when 2 weeks before K2 is | 15:39 |
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| bauzas | because that's the fencing gate for merging spec exceptions | 15:39 |
| n0ano | how about this slot on Thurs, 1500 UTC (8AM MST) | 15:39 |
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| edleafe | n0ano: works for me | 15:40 |
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| bauzas | n0ano: I have a kid to go take around 1545 but it will just take 10 mins | 15:40 |
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| bauzas | so I can attend 1500UTC with a 10-min off window | 15:40 |
| n0ano | #action n0ano to setup a Google hang out on Thurs, 1/15, 1500 UTC | 15:41 |
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| bauzas | https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Kilo_Release_Schedule | 15:41 |
| n0ano | so let's all read edleafe spec and be ready to discuss then, we don't have much time before the merge cutoff | 15:42 |
| bauzas | 2 weeks before K2 is 22th Jan | 15:42 |
| bauzas | to be clear : 22th Jan is the deadline for merging a spec exception, provided it has been approved before | 15:42 |
| n0ano | bauzas, I'm not too concerned, I think the bulk of the spec is fine, we just have to iron out this one issue | 15:42 |
| bauzas | some code could probably be asked for validating the spec | 15:43 |
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| bauzas | n0ano: so the sooner is the better but I'm fine with Thurs | 15:43 |
| edleafe | I can start putting together some code based on this | 15:43 |
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| edleafe | but it will really depend on a lot of the other changes | 15:44 |
| bauzas | edleafe: sounds a good idea | 15:44 |
| n0ano | edleafe, that'd be good, I don't think we're going to make major changes to the spec | 15:44 |
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| bauzas | n0ano: well, that depends on what we agree on the hangout | 15:44 |
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| n0ano | bauzas, I'm optimistic :-) | 15:44 |
| edleafe | it's just that it will be affected by all the changes that bauzas and jaypipes have queued up | 15:44 |
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| jaypipes | bauzas: what's the status of the detach-service patch series? ready for final reviews? | 15:46 |
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| bauzas | jaypipes: you can take a look, yup | 15:47 |
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| bauzas | jaypipes: I have some fixes to do for the objectification | 15:47 |
| jaypipes | k, will do this evening (sorry, in meetings all day.. ) | 15:48 |
| bauzas | jaypipes: no worries | 15:48 |
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| bauzas | jaypipes: at the 3 first patches in the series are good to be merged | 15:48 |
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| bauzas | jaypipes: which would be a good next step for the bp | 15:49 |
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| n0ano | bauzas, do I read that bp right, there are 14 patches to implement it? | 15:50 |
| bauzas | n0ano: yeah, lots of fixes about providing backwards compatibility | 15:51 |
| n0ano | we all need to do `a lot` of reviewing | 15:51 |
| bauzas | n0ano: basically, the new field has been provided, the goal now is to get rid of all the old methods | 15:51 |
| bauzas | and use the objects as a Facade for accessing the new way | 15:51 |
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| bauzas | n0ano: or switch back to the old way if the field is unset | 15:52 |
| n0ano | well, we're approaching the top of the hour so: | 15:52 |
| n0ano | #topic opens | 15:53 |
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| n0ano | anything new for today? | 15:53 |
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| n0ano | hearing a lot of crickets so I'll thank everyone, hope to see you at the hangout on Thurs and we'll talk again next week | 15:54 |
| edleafe | thanks, n0ano! | 15:54 |
| bauzas | see ya | 15:54 |
| n0ano | #endmeeting | 15:54 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 15:54 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Jan 13 15:54:53 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 15:54 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/gantt/2015/gantt.2015-01-13-15.00.html | 15:54 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/gantt/2015/gantt.2015-01-13-15.00.txt | 15:54 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/gantt/2015/gantt.2015-01-13-15.00.log.html | 15:54 |
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| alex_xu | bye | 15:55 |
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| boris-42 | #startmeeting | 17:12 |
| openstack | boris-42: Error: A meeting name is required, e.g., '#startmeeting Marketing Committee' | 17:12 |
| boris-42 | ameade: pczesno msdubov_ hi | 17:12 |
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| boris-42 | #startmeeting Rally | 17:12 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Jan 13 17:12:50 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is boris-42. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 17:12 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 17:12 |
| msdubov_ | boris-42, hi! | 17:12 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: Rally)" | 17:12 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'rally' | 17:12 |
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| boris-42 | amaretskiy: ping | 17:14 |
| amaretskiy | hi | 17:14 |
| boris-42 | paboldin: hi | 17:14 |
| paboldin | hi all | 17:14 |
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| oanufriev | hi | 17:14 |
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| boris-42 | okay let's tart | 17:16 |
| boris-42 | msdubov_: could you share details about your work on docs | 17:16 |
| boris-42 | #topic Improve Rally Docs | 17:17 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Improve Rally Docs (Meeting topic: Rally)" | 17:17 | |
| msdubov_ | boris-42, sure | 17:17 |
| msdubov_ | here is the patch https://review.openstack.org/120018 | 17:17 |
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| msdubov_ | here is the link to the current state of the docs in this patch http://docs-draft.openstack.org/18/120018/29/check/gate-rally-docs/fd04e63//doc/build/html/ | 17:17 |
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| msdubov_ | Compared to what is now there in ReadTheDocs, the documentation has been greatly restructured and somewhat simplified | 17:18 |
| msdubov_ | I've accomplished the 4-steps tutorial through different use cases in Rally | 17:18 |
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| msdubov_ | ("Rally Step-by-Step") | 17:18 |
| msdubov_ | this is going to be expanded furthermore | 17:18 |
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| msdubov_ | but by now I think it's time to show this documentation to our presales manager who was interested in it, collect feedback and finally merge this patch | 17:19 |
| msdubov_ | and then continue this work in future patches | 17:19 |
| boris-42 | msdubov_: I already send to him | 17:19 |
| msdubov_ | boris-42, Oh great I missed it | 17:20 |
| boris-42 | msdubov_: seems like he didn't have enough tim eto go through it | 17:20 |
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| boris-42 | msdubov_: okay seems much better then now | 17:20 |
| boris-42 | before* | 17:20 |
| boris-42 | lol | 17:20 |
| msdubov_ | Also I've made a patch to global requirements to support the ReadTheDocs theme in Gates | 17:20 |
| msdubov_ | boris-42, Hope so! | 17:20 |
| msdubov_ | eom | 17:20 |
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| boris-42 | msdubov_: I think section about plugisn | 17:21 |
| boris-42 | msdubov_: is a bit not completed | 17:22 |
| msdubov_ | boris-42, You want more samples? | 17:22 |
| boris-42 | msdubov_: http://docs-draft.openstack.org/18/120018/29/check/gate-rally-docs/fd04e63//doc/build/html/plugins.html | 17:22 |
| boris-42 | msdubov_: there is only sample for scenario, no sla, no context, ... | 17:22 |
| msdubov_ | boris-42, Yep, but the mechanism seems to be the same for scenario/sla/context | 17:23 |
| msdubov_ | boris-42, Anyway I can add more examples | 17:23 |
| boris-42 | msdubov_: it is simlir when you know whole Rally | 17:23 |
| msdubov_ | boris-42, agree | 17:23 |
| boris-42 | msdubov_: and context are different from scenarios | 17:24 |
| boris-42 | msdubov_: absolutelly differnet | 17:24 |
| boris-42 | msdubov_: and I think we can add here subsections http://docs-draft.openstack.org/18/120018/29/check/gate-rally-docs/fd04e63//doc/build/html/gates.html | 17:24 |
| boris-42 | msdubov_: cause it's hard to read/understand | 17:24 |
| boris-42 | msdubov_: okay let's move to other topics) | 17:24 |
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| boris-42 | #topic VMTask reactoring | 17:25 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "VMTask reactoring (Meeting topic: Rally)" | 17:25 | |
| boris-42 | amaretskiy: ping | 17:25 |
| amaretskiy | hi | 17:25 |
| boris-42 | amaretskiy: hi there | 17:25 |
| boris-42 | amaretskiy: what is the status of patch? | 17:25 |
| amaretskiy | I've done improvements for scenario boot-runcommand-delete | 17:25 |
| amaretskiy | the patch is https://review.openstack.org/#/c/144337/ | 17:25 |
| amaretskiy | now we can run this scenario for neutron-based cluster | 17:26 |
| amaretskiy | and most of networking setup is automated | 17:26 |
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| amaretskiy | so we can just use network context | 17:27 |
| boris-42 | amaretskiy: could you prove it ? | 17:27 |
| amaretskiy | and left all networking parameters default | 17:27 |
| boris-42 | amaretskiy: and add VMTask here https://review.openstack.org/#/c/144337/9/rally-jobs/rally-neutron.yaml | 17:27 |
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| amaretskiy | yes, reasonable | 17:27 |
| amaretskiy | that will be done | 17:28 |
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| amaretskiy | eom | 17:28 |
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| boris-42 | amaretskiy: ok I will take a look at that patch tomorrow | 17:29 |
| amaretskiy | ok | 17:29 |
| boris-42 | msdubov_: andreykurilin1 paboldin ^ please do the same=) | 17:30 |
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| paboldin | ack | 17:30 |
| boris-42 | #topic Benchmarking in VMs | 17:30 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Benchmarking in VMs (Meeting topic: Rally)" | 17:30 | |
| boris-42 | paboldin: do you have something to say about it?) | 17:30 |
| paboldin | not much yet | 17:30 |
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| paboldin | trying to decide what to use to launch hundreds of benchmarks on hundreds of VMs | 17:31 |
| paboldin | writing a proposal | 17:31 |
| paboldin | that is it | 17:31 |
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| boris-42 | paboldin: oslo.messaging? | 17:32 |
| boris-42 | paboldin: or tinny REST web server | 17:32 |
| paboldin | boris-42: will take a look, thanks | 17:32 |
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| boris-42 | paboldin: I even don't now what is better) | 17:33 |
| paboldin | boris-42: this will require us to connect to each VM | 17:33 |
| paboldin | this is bad | 17:33 |
| boris-42 | paboldin: nope | 17:33 |
| paboldin | i would prefer a bus | 17:33 |
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| boris-42 | paboldin: HTTP request will scale well | 17:33 |
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| paboldin | we will see when the proposal is ready | 17:34 |
| boris-42 | paboldin: ok great | 17:34 |
| boris-42 | paboldin: could you share link of proposal?) | 17:34 |
| paboldin | boris-42: when it will be at least in a first draft version | 17:34 |
| boris-42 | paboldin: ok good | 17:35 |
| boris-42 | #topic MOS is pain | 17:35 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "MOS is pain (Meeting topic: Rally)" | 17:35 | |
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| boris-42 | amaretskiy: around? | 17:36 |
| amaretskiy | yes | 17:36 |
| boris-42 | So I talk with FUEL guys | 17:36 |
| boris-42 | they said next | 17:36 |
| boris-42 | 1) they blocked access from fuel master node | 17:36 |
| boris-42 | because of security issue | 17:36 |
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| boris-42 | 2) they blocked ineternal and managment url becuase of security | 17:37 |
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| boris-42 | 3) They add back door in HA proxy (that enpoint with tricky PORT) | 17:37 |
| boris-42 | that is managment url (but in public network) | 17:37 |
| boris-42 | So....... | 17:38 |
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| boris-42 | they add that backdoor because they have to have abiility to run OSTF that requires admin | 17:38 |
| boris-42 | amaretskiy: ^ so seems something very bad | 17:38 |
| amaretskiy | agreed | 17:38 |
| boris-42 | amaretskiy: I think we should ask to allow access to managment url | 17:39 |
| boris-42 | from FUEL master node | 17:39 |
| amaretskiy | why? we do not run rally on master node | 17:39 |
| amaretskiy | that is a rare case | 17:39 |
| amaretskiy | nobody (except me) does that | 17:39 |
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| amaretskiy | and it is very hard to install rally on this node | 17:40 |
| boris-42 | amaretskiy: nope | 17:40 |
| boris-42 | amaretskiy: now it is simple | 17:40 |
| amaretskiy | docker ? | 17:40 |
| boris-42 | amaretskiy: cause we have docker | 17:40 |
| boris-42 | amaretskiy: yep | 17:40 |
| boris-42 | amaretskiy: and it is installed on fuel master node | 17:40 |
| amaretskiy | okay | 17:41 |
| boris-42 | amaretskiy: so it will be quit easy for end users | 17:41 |
| amaretskiy | but whay should not we just add a keystone oparameter "endpoint" into deployment config? | 17:41 |
| amaretskiy | this parameter is commin | 17:41 |
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| amaretskiy | *common | 17:41 |
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| boris-42 | amaretskiy: it is common for or clients | 17:44 |
| boris-42 | amaretskiy: in current implementation we are passing it only to keystone | 17:44 |
| amaretskiy | that is just yet another keystone client parameter | 17:44 |
| boris-42 | amaretskiy: nope | 17:44 |
| boris-42 | amaretskiy: we should change managment url for all clients | 17:44 |
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| boris-42 | amaretskiy: so for example live migrate benchmark (that requires admin) won't work | 17:45 |
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| boris-42 | amaretskiy: and every clients has own endpoint | 17:45 |
| boris-42 | amaretskiy: so some kind of hell | 17:46 |
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| boris-42 | ok | 17:49 |
| boris-42 | so I will talk to FUEL guys | 17:49 |
| boris-42 | and let's seee | 17:49 |
| boris-42 | #topic Fuel Task Templates | 17:49 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Fuel Task Templates (Meeting topic: Rally)" | 17:49 | |
| boris-42 | #topic Rally Task Templates | 17:49 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Rally Task Templates (Meeting topic: Rally)" | 17:49 | |
| boris-42 | So it is the part of work that I am working on | 17:49 |
| boris-42 | It allows us to create parametrized jinja2 tempaltes | 17:49 |
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| boris-42 | that generates tasks | 17:49 |
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| boris-42 | wich allows to make independed from OpenStack clouds size and configratuion tasks | 17:50 |
| boris-42 | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/137716/ | 17:50 |
| boris-42 | patch is here ^ and I hope to merge it soon | 17:50 |
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| boris-42 | anybody has anything to say?) | 17:51 |
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| amaretskiy | i think we can specify template context data from stdin | 17:52 |
| amaretskiy | example: echo args.json | rally task start ... | 17:52 |
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| amaretskiy | s/echo/cat/ | 17:52 |
| boris-42 | hm | 17:52 |
| boris-42 | rally task start ... --task-args-file | 17:52 |
| boris-42 | ?) | 17:52 |
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| amaretskiy | ok, let it be so | 17:53 |
| amaretskiy | --task-args-file is ok | 17:53 |
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| boris-42 | amaretskiy: it's just already implemented | 17:54 |
| boris-42 | amaretskiy: I mean in future we can extend it even to stdin | 17:54 |
| amaretskiy | ok | 17:54 |
| boris-42 | amaretskiy: but for now I think it's better to merge patch, cause it's already too big=) | 17:55 |
| boris-42 | Okay we need to finish meeting soon=) | 17:55 |
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| boris-42 | so see you guys | 17:55 |
| boris-42 | #endmeeting | 17:55 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 17:55 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Jan 13 17:55:28 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 17:55 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/rally/2015/rally.2015-01-13-17.12.html | 17:55 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/rally/2015/rally.2015-01-13-17.12.txt | 17:55 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/rally/2015/rally.2015-01-13-17.12.log.html | 17:55 |
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| morganfainberg | dolphm, ayoung, bknudson, dstanek, jamielennox, morganfainberg, stevemar, gyee, henrynash, topol, marekd, lbragstad, joesavak, shardy, fabiog, nkinder, lloydm, shrekuma, ksavich, hrybacki, rharwood, grantbow, vdreamarkitex, raildo, rodrigods, amakarov, ajayaa, hogepodge, breton, lhcheng, nonameentername, samueldmq, htruta, amolock | 17:58 |
| morganfainberg | https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/KeystoneMeeting | 17:58 |
| dolphm | o/ | 17:58 |
| joesavak | o/ | 17:58 |
| lbragstad | morganfainberg: hey | 17:59 |
| samueldmq | o/ | 17:59 |
| nonameentername | o/ | 17:59 |
| bknudson | lol | 17:59 |
| ajayaa | o/ | 17:59 |
| morganfainberg | That list seems to get longer each week. | 17:59 |
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| dstanek | o/ | 17:59 |
| rodrigods | o/ | 18:00 |
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| amakarov | o/ | 18:00 |
| raildo | o/ | 18:00 |
| morganfainberg | It's that time of the week again, let's get it started (same bat time, same bat channel) | 18:00 |
| morganfainberg | #startmeeting Keystone | 18:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Jan 13 18:00:39 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is morganfainberg. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 18:00 |
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| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 18:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: Keystone)" | 18:00 | |
| jamielennox | o/ | 18:00 |
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| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'keystone' | 18:00 |
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| morganfainberg | Good morning! Quick housekeeping. | 18:00 |
| nonameentername | o/ | 18:00 |
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| morganfainberg | Next week no irc meeting, mid cycle instead. | 18:01 |
| breton | hello | 18:01 |
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| rodrigods | midcycle should have a hangout... just saying.. | 18:01 |
| morganfainberg | I will try and setup a hangout (Google) for one of the days to get folks not in San Antonio involved | 18:01 |
| rodrigods | yay | 18:01 |
| raildo | \o/ | 18:01 |
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| morganfainberg | But no guarantees it'll work. | 18:01 |
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| gyee | \o | 18:01 |
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| jamielennox | morganfainberg: would be appreciated | 18:02 |
| topol | o/ | 18:02 |
| morganfainberg | If you haven't voted on the board of directors and bylaws changes. Go do it. | 18:02 |
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| gyee | morganfainberg, turns out monday is MLK holiday | 18:02 |
| henrynash | hi | 18:02 |
| morganfainberg | It is really really important to get votes. | 18:02 |
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| stevemar | o/ | 18:02 |
| morganfainberg | gyee: working holiday for us! :P | 18:02 |
| dolphm | yeah, we really need the voter turnout | 18:03 |
| dolphm | gyee: oops | 18:03 |
| amakarov | I'm a little lost: where is this voting? | 18:03 |
| gyee | hahaha | 18:03 |
| topol | gyee I've already booked my flight | 18:03 |
| dolphm | amakarov: if you're a foundation member, you'll have an email with a personalized voter link | 18:03 |
| morganfainberg | So please vote. If you are a foundation member and didn't get a ballot (and have been since July 20 2014) make sure you contact secretary@openstack.org for your ballot link | 18:03 |
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| dolphm | email subject is "OpenStack Foundation - 2015 Individual Director Election" | 18:04 |
| morganfainberg | amakarov: if you joined the foundation on or before July 20, 2014 | 18:04 |
| morganfainberg | You should have gotten that email. | 18:04 |
| amakarov | morganfainberg, dolphm ok, I'm too young )) | 18:04 |
| topol | I missed it. Are you recommending particular folks? | 18:04 |
| dolphm | but it's not just a director election, there are proposed changes to the bylaws | 18:04 |
| jorge_munoz | o/ | 18:04 |
| morganfainberg | Topol no, just go vote. | 18:04 |
| topol | any recommended bylaw changes? | 18:04 |
| joesavak | topol - lol | 18:05 |
| topol | morganfainberg OK | 18:05 |
| ayoung | Oh, is it that time already? | 18:05 |
| gyee | topol, yes, yes, and yes | 18:05 |
| morganfainberg | Read them, I won't recommend yes or no on any director or bylaw changes. | 18:05 |
| morganfainberg | Big tent, lawyer count, and % of community for bylaw changes are he resolutions | 18:05 |
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| morganfainberg | #info vote on board of directors and bylaw changes if you are eligible. | 18:06 |
| morganfainberg | #info Spec proposal deadline for keystone: feb 5 | 18:07 |
| morganfainberg | Get your specs proposed and approved. | 18:07 |
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| morganfainberg | Last bit of house keeping. | 18:07 |
| morganfainberg | I'd like to propose a code-feature proposal freeze 2-weeks prior to k3 | 18:07 |
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| morganfainberg | Meaning no feature code after that mark. Will help limit last minute breaking things before feature freeze | 18:08 |
| morganfainberg | Any complaints or concerns? | 18:08 |
| topol | sounds very good | 18:08 |
| samueldmq | ++ | 18:08 |
| nonameentername | that sounds good to me | 18:08 |
| raildo | sounds good to me | 18:09 |
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| amakarov | amakarov, ++ | 18:09 |
| henrynash | so it is a proposal freeze or an actual code freeze | 18:09 |
| joesavak | so that's a code feature freeze and not a code feature proposal freeze, right? | 18:09 |
| henrynash | ha! | 18:09 |
| morganfainberg | henrynash: code freeze for new features. | 18:09 |
| lbragstad | so we will officially enter bug mode two weeks before k3 | 18:09 |
| henrynash | ok | 18:09 |
| morganfainberg | lbragstad: correct. | 18:09 |
| lbragstad | joesavak: code freeze | 18:09 |
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| lbragstad | s/code/feature/ | 18:09 |
| joesavak | +1 | 18:09 |
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| morganfainberg | It gives us a window to fix anything outstanding on features but limits rebase hell | 18:09 |
| henrynash | +1 | 18:09 |
| gyee | I think Jenkins freeze happens 4 weeks before :) | 18:10 |
| ayoung | I thought we were going to be more forgiving than that | 18:10 |
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| ayoung | we used to say "Milestone 2" | 18:10 |
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| ayoung | and with the spec adoption, I thought we were going with Milestone 3\ | 18:10 |
| morganfainberg | ayoung: we are now saying 2-weeks prior to hard feature freeze | 18:10 |
| morganfainberg | Just so we can limt rebase hell and last minute "omg we broke everything" | 18:10 |
| ayoung | morganfainberg, does that mean that the review must be submitted, or that the review must be accepted and merged? | 18:11 |
| ayoung | cuz we have so little time and so much process | 18:11 |
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| morganfainberg | Must be gating or ready to gate. This is milestone 3 | 18:11 |
| morganfainberg | Not milestone 2 | 18:11 |
| ayoung | I understand | 18:11 |
| ayoung | Heh, you can't get anything through Gate during M3 week anyway | 18:12 |
| morganfainberg | Basically get your code ready to merge by 2-weeks prior to feature freeze. If we get most stuff done there, we will have less headaches to fight the gate at 1day before m3 | 18:12 |
| morganfainberg | Exactly. | 18:12 |
| morganfainberg | We can revisit next week on Monday. | 18:13 |
| morganfainberg | On to topics. | 18:13 |
| morganfainberg | #topic OS-INHERIT | 18:13 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OS-INHERIT (Meeting topic: Keystone)" | 18:13 | |
| morganfainberg | henrynash: o: | 18:13 |
| morganfainberg | O/ even | 18:13 |
| henrynash | actuall I think samuel was rasing this one... | 18:13 |
| morganfainberg | Ack, battery is about to die, running to my desk. | 18:13 |
| morganfainberg | Ok samueldmq o/ | 18:14 |
| morganfainberg | :) | 18:14 |
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| samueldmq | hi :) | 18:14 |
| samueldmq | so we have one proposal regarding role inheritance | 18:14 |
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| samueldmq | currently we have OS-INHERIT:inherited_to: ['projects'] | 18:14 |
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| samueldmq | this is in the spec, but we have implemented as OS-INHERIT:inherited_to: 'projects' (without list) | 18:15 |
| samueldmq | but instead of just fixing the spec, I was thinking about removing inherited_to: ['projects'], and keep just inherited=True/False | 18:15 |
| henrynash | (that’s what gets returned by list_role_assignments to indicated that an assigment is inherited) | 18:15 |
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| samueldmq | henrynash, ++ | 18:16 |
| samueldmq | or passed to list_role_assignments to apply filtering | 18:16 |
| henrynash | so a little background for everyone | 18:16 |
| bknudson | I think we need to go with changing the spec to match the code... openstack rules. | 18:16 |
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| gyee | why's there a list to begin with? we have something other than projects in mind? | 18:17 |
| samueldmq | bknudson, yes, that would be the first step, to get consistency asap | 18:17 |
| henrynash | if you remember when I first proposed inheritance from domain->projects we had a long debate about how “inheritanc” should work | 18:17 |
| ayoung | make domain is-a project and that issue goes away | 18:17 |
| gyee | if we don't have anything else, true/false make sense | 18:17 |
| bknudson | I don't think we can go changing the spec to inherited=True/False since that's against the stability rules. | 18:18 |
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| morganfainberg | bknudson: ++ | 18:18 |
| bknudson | plus I think it's a poor design choice to use a boolean where a more descriptive string would explain things. | 18:18 |
| samueldmq | bknudson, we don't even support role inheritance on the clients I think (will recheck) | 18:18 |
| raildo | gyee: with domain is a project, we need to inehrited to - subdomains | 18:18 |
| ayoung | so we update the spec to OS-INHERIT:inherited_to: 'projects' right? | 18:18 |
| amakarov | does it give any actual benefits? | 18:19 |
| henrynash | at least one person was concerned that we might need more than just “inherit down the tree”..ans we might, in the future, want “directed inheritance”…i.e. OS-INHERIT: inherited_to : [“project_id”: 123, “project_id”:564] | 18:19 |
| ayoung | I like that | 18:19 |
| rodrigods | samueldmq, we don't | 18:19 |
| samueldmq | rodrigods, thx | 18:19 |
| rodrigods | the change to add support to inheritance in keystoneclient is under review | 18:19 |
| gyee | henrynash, that's more flexible | 18:19 |
| raildo | gyee: so I think that we need to create a OS-INHERIT:inherited_to: 'domains' or something like that | 18:19 |
| ayoung | raildo, nah | 18:19 |
| ayoung | domain is-a project means we don't need it | 18:19 |
| samueldmq | so since we don't even support role inheritance on the clients, and it's still an extension, I don't see a big concern on changing the API | 18:19 |
| rodrigods | ayoung, ++ | 18:19 |
| ayoung | lets drive that one home instead | 18:19 |
| gyee | domain -> special project | 18:20 |
| morganfainberg | ayoung, i agree, if we push domains == projects, this issue goes away | 18:20 |
| ayoung | morganfainberg, and we need to get that working for HMT anyway | 18:20 |
| morganfainberg | ayoung, yes | 18:20 |
| ayoung | raildo, and rodrigods are going to take a hack at it from my WIP | 18:20 |
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| henrynash | I personally think that anying other than “inheritance down the tree” plus teh ability of a node to block inheritance is about as much as any adminstrator will be able to cope with | 18:21 |
| ayoung | henrynash, I like the inherited_to : [“project_id”: 123, “project_id”:564] | 18:21 |
| raildo | ayoung:but if I inherited a role in all subdomains, i broke the reseller, because a user in a parent domain can manager users in a subdomain | 18:21 |
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| samueldmq | henrynash, ++ | 18:21 |
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| ayoung | Ah... | 18:21 |
| samueldmq | raildo, that should be solved by what henrynash just proposed | 18:21 |
| samueldmq | raildo, a flag to block inheritance | 18:22 |
| ayoung | OS-INHERIT:inherited_to: 'not projects' | 18:22 |
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| ayoung | er | 18:22 |
| henrynash | ayoung: so while directed inheritance sounds kind of cool…if you really had complex usage model of that……would an admin have any clue what was going on? | 18:22 |
| ayoung | OS-INHERIT:inherited_to: 'not domains' | 18:22 |
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| ayoung | henrynash, depends on the quality of the admin, as always | 18:23 |
| bknudson | inherited_to would have to be a dict. | 18:23 |
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| amakarov | ayoung, may it be just omitted? | 18:23 |
| ayoung | bknudson, we should be able to handle both a single value and a dict | 18:23 |
| morganfainberg | an alternative would be to shelve OS-INHERIT and make inheritance a first-class part of the assignment api | 18:23 |
| ayoung | amakarov, no, | 18:23 |
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| morganfainberg | OS-INHERIT would be maintained as is for legacy/compat | 18:23 |
| gyee | things never change, people always fight over inheritance :) | 18:23 |
| ayoung | amakarov, they need to say "inherited to projects that are not domains" | 18:23 |
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| samueldmq | #link the spec as it is today http://specs.openstack.org/openstack/keystone-specs/api/v3/identity-api-v3-os-inherit-ext.html#list-effective-role-assignments | 18:24 |
| henrynash | this feels like a more complex topic given everyone’s views…sounds like we might want to have asession on this next week | 18:24 |
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| rodrigods | samueldmq, API spec | 18:24 |
| amakarov | ayoung, reminds 'redelegation_count' :) | 18:24 |
| morganfainberg | amakarov, yes. | 18:24 |
| ayoung | amakarov, comparable, but different | 18:24 |
| gyee | henrynash, ++ | 18:24 |
| dolphm | henrynash: +1 to all your comments here | 18:24 |
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| morganfainberg | if we do have directed sessions like that i'll work to make sure we have a hangout for those | 18:26 |
| morganfainberg | as well. | 18:26 |
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| samueldmq | ++ | 18:26 |
| morganfainberg | esp since iirc samueldmq isn't there | 18:26 |
| ayoung | the short, though, is that we should update the spec to match the code at a minimum, right? | 18:26 |
| morganfainberg | ayoung, or ^^ my suggestion there [more work though] | 18:26 |
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| morganfainberg | ayoung, but the spec will need to match the code if we keep it in OS-INHERIT | 18:26 |
| ayoung | morganfainberg, I think anythinig beyond what the code does today should be future work | 18:26 |
| henrynash | ayoung: at a minimum, yes… | 18:26 |
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| morganfainberg | ayoung, correct | 18:27 |
| morganfainberg | ayoung, minimum spec needs to match code 1st | 18:27 |
| gyee | if we have to update the spec because of the code, the process is somewhat broken isn't it? | 18:27 |
| ayoung | having them out of sync is problematic. Since we have released code, lets agree to first update the spec, second solve the problem for the duration | 18:27 |
| morganfainberg | gyee, some of this documentation was out of sync | 18:27 |
| samueldmq | morganfainberg, so I'll submit a patch to fix the api spec | 18:27 |
| ayoung | samueldmq, ++ | 18:27 |
| morganfainberg | gyee, this is a case where we keep contract with functionality | 18:27 |
| samueldmq | morganfainberg, and then we decide further next week | 18:27 |
| henrynash | gyee: well, only because we shipped that code 2 releases ago! | 18:28 |
| gyee | oh | 18:28 |
| morganfainberg | gyee, and ^^ what henrynash just said | 18:28 |
| * gyee stfu now | 18:28 | |
| morganfainberg | gyee, this is API spec not new-code spec | 18:28 |
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| dolphm | gyee: i wouldn't expect an unimplemented spec to be "final" until it has shipped as stable/* | 18:28 |
| morganfainberg | #action samueldmq to update API spec to match actual code. | 18:28 |
| morganfainberg | dolphm, ++ | 18:28 |
| dolphm | unimplemented api* spec | 18:28 |
| ayoung | I know that Chadwick's new Postdoc is somewhere in Brazil, but I assume it is too much to hope he is anywhere near the rest of you guys, is it? | 18:28 |
| rodrigods | yes | 18:29 |
| morganfainberg | ayoung, lets discuss that in -keystone post meeting, we have a full agenda | 18:29 |
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| morganfainberg | moving on | 18:29 |
| morganfainberg | #topic Multifactor Authentication | 18:29 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Multifactor Authentication (Meeting topic: Keystone)" | 18:29 | |
| gyee | dolphm, in that case, would it make send to write the code first, then change the spec | 18:29 |
| morganfainberg | nonameentername, o/ | 18:29 |
| gyee | s/send/sense/ | 18:29 |
| nonameentername | o/ | 18:29 |
| morganfainberg | gyee, that is the point of the experimental -> stable workflow | 18:30 |
| morganfainberg | gyee, for new stuff. | 18:30 |
| morganfainberg | anyway, nonameentername floor is yours | 18:30 |
| ayoung | morganfainberg, so with MFA, it seems like he first should be submitting a patch for OTP, no? | 18:30 |
| nonameentername | I wanted to get some eyes and feed back on my spec. It had a lot of possitive reviews but then died down | 18:30 |
| morganfainberg | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/130376/ | 18:30 |
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| morganfainberg | This is defintely on the list of specs to hit while at the mid-cycle, but i think most of the major concerns have been addrressed. | 18:31 |
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| bknudson | how does an auth plugin require another plugin (e.g., the otp plugin requires password plugin)? | 18:32 |
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| lbragstad | nonameentername: I know marekd had a bunch of questions before the holidays, but you addressed those? | 18:32 |
| bknudson | also, should the otp plugin require password? what if I wanted to use something better? | 18:32 |
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| bknudson | oh, it's going to do both. | 18:32 |
| gyee | where do we store the seed/secret? | 18:32 |
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| gyee | cred api? | 18:32 |
| nonameentername | lbragstad: he wanted me to add api information, but I don't know if that belongs in the spec or if it should live in the identity-api project | 18:32 |
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| morganfainberg | bknudson, right now the architecture doesnt support requiring a plugin from another plugin, but a user can request multiple plugins | 18:33 |
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| bknudson | it would be interesting to see barbican integration with credentials. | 18:33 |
| morganfainberg | gyee, i am pushing for barbican in general | 18:33 |
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| morganfainberg | as an option | 18:33 |
| nonameentername | bknudson: yes, that is part of the spec | 18:33 |
| jamielennox | bknudson: the v3 plugins are designed so that there can be multiple 'methods' just nothing uses it at the moment | 18:34 |
| morganfainberg | bknudson, +∞ | 18:34 |
| bknudson | I thought we already had support for multi-factor authentication in the original auth plugin design. | 18:34 |
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| morganfainberg | bknudson, sortof. | 18:34 |
| jamielennox | bknudson: you could write a plugin that essentially does multiple methods for you | 18:34 |
| gyee | bknudson, this is the plugin itself | 18:34 |
| gyee | not the framework | 18:34 |
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| nonameentername | gyee ++ | 18:34 |
| gyee | MFA can be implementd in so many ways | 18:35 |
| morganfainberg | bknudson, nonameentername wants to enforce that in cases MFA is used [sometimes for all authentications], which today isn't there. no plugin for it. | 18:35 |
| bknudson | if this is just proposing another plugin then that seems to be different than what the spec says. | 18:35 |
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| morganfainberg | bknudson, the spec is mostly implying a new auth-plugin | 18:35 |
| gyee | password = pin + one time hash code | 18:36 |
| morganfainberg | bknudson, but also proposing the framework change to allow a demand of multiple plugins for auth | 18:36 |
| morganfainberg | bknudson, vs only on user request | 18:36 |
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| morganfainberg | bknudson, so you can say "user X must use MFA" vs "did user X use MFA" | 18:36 |
| bknudson | gyee: is that how pam implements otp? | 18:36 |
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| morganfainberg | bknudson, depends on the OTP. | 18:36 |
| nonameentername | morganfainberg: ++ | 18:36 |
| ayoung | so the question is whether the rule should be "no token without MFA" enforced by auth pipeline or "this API requires MFA" enforced by policy/ | 18:36 |
| gyee | bknudson, that's how google authenticator works afaik | 18:36 |
| ayoung | the first is easier | 18:36 |
| gyee | I had a prototype on that awhile back | 18:37 |
| morganfainberg | ayoung, this is allowing for the first case | 18:37 |
| bknudson | ok, I just wanted to understand it... I don't have a problem with the proposal. | 18:37 |
| morganfainberg | ayoung, and providiung the plugin. | 18:37 |
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| morganfainberg | ayoung, the latter case is in the token-constraints type spec | 18:37 |
| morganfainberg | ayoung, or part of policy language+middleware to expose | 18:38 |
| morganfainberg | bknudson, ack | 18:38 |
| jamielennox | so this is going to cause all sorts of problems with reauthentication | 18:38 |
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| gyee | reason I didn't propose the google authenticator change was that I was under the impression we are not going to do anything with IdP till we separate the identity piece from Keystone first | 18:38 |
| jamielennox | it's not useful for any sort of automated service, are we mostly just considering horizon here? | 18:38 |
| ayoung | auth pipeline right now is "or" and this calls for "and" | 18:38 |
| bknudson | jamielennox: good point... token only lasts 30 mins so I'll need to look at my keyfob again. | 18:38 |
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| morganfainberg | jamielennox, this is why it needs to be per-user. service users may not need/get it | 18:39 |
| morganfainberg | jamielennox, MFA that is | 18:39 |
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| morganfainberg | jamielennox OR the service consumption would need to know how to do OTP for re-auth. | 18:39 |
| bknudson | so then we also need a mechanism to store per user which auth is required. | 18:39 |
| jamielennox | morganfainberg: right - didn't expect them to, i'm just wondering how the flow will work | 18:39 |
| gyee | morganfainberg, right, MFA is generally bad for non-interactive users | 18:39 |
| jamielennox | it also means that our clients need to start actually caching authetnication | 18:39 |
| morganfainberg | jamielennox, please comment on the spec, that is where this should be defined. | 18:39 |
| morganfainberg | jamielennox, ++ | 18:39 |
| morganfainberg | lets get the comments in order so we can get this landed monday/cleaned up ready on mondy | 18:40 |
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| * topol just saw morganfainberg do +∞ and thought that is really cool | 18:40 | |
| morganfainberg | i think the major hurdles are solved in the proposal, now it's the "here are all the things that could be affected, lets not forget it" | 18:40 |
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| morganfainberg | as in the proposal is good. but we have associated functionality that would be impacted and can't be forgotten | 18:41 |
| bknudson | use federation instead. | 18:41 |
| dstanek | so does this mean that we are adding a per user auth column/table? | 18:41 |
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| ayoung | no | 18:42 |
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| ayoung | it should be on assignment, not on the user side | 18:42 |
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| gyee | dstanek, you don't need to, you can have policy around auth methods | 18:42 |
| ayoung | specifically "in order to get a token for this role in this project, use needs to authentiate iwht F1, F2" | 18:42 |
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| dstanek | ayoung: that makes sense - so on a per assignment basis | 18:43 |
| morganfainberg | dstanek, ayoung, i think that makes a lot of sense | 18:43 |
| gyee | you can get a token with any method, but you may not be able to access certain apis with that method | 18:44 |
| dstanek | i need to go back and read the spec again - it's been a while | 18:44 |
| morganfainberg | lets comment on the spec. | 18:44 |
| bknudson | with mod_shib can you put in a constraint on how the user authenticated? | 18:44 |
| morganfainberg | we need to move on, still a lot to cover | 18:44 |
| morganfainberg | bknudson, i think that falls into how the IDP auths | 18:44 |
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| nonameentername | thanks | 18:44 |
| morganfainberg | bknudson, idp would enforce MFA or not | 18:44 |
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| morganfainberg | #topic Domain Config | 18:44 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Domain Config (Meeting topic: Keystone)" | 18:44 | |
| gyee | we need to cleanly separate out authn and authz | 18:44 |
| ayoung | you could almost make it a property of the role | 18:44 |
| morganfainberg | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/123238/ | 18:44 |
| morganfainberg | henrynash, o/ | 18:45 |
| henrynash | ok, so reminder on domain configs - this is to enable clouds admins to on-board a customer into a domain who has their own ldap settings...letting them doing it all via REST, rather than having to set up those hokey domain-specifc config files that I dreamt up a while back | 18:45 |
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| henrynash | intention is that we will deprecate the domain-specific config files, but still support for 2 release | 18:45 |
| morganfainberg | henrynash, i support this change! | 18:45 |
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| henrynash | Most people seem OK on the spec, but wanted to see what the API might look like | 18:45 |
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| henrynash | so have prepared the simplest version: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/123238/10/api/v3/identity-api-v3.rst | 18:45 |
| henrynash | but wanted to see what peopel thought about that vs alternatives | 18:45 |
| ayoung | henrynash, you just inherited the hokyness from my LDAP config. | 18:45 |
| henrynash | playing hokey was always good fun | 18:46 |
| ayoung | that's what its all about. | 18:46 |
| bknudson | I'm just glad we dropped XML support. | 18:46 |
| henrynash | ha! | 18:46 |
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| henrynash | so the simpel proposal just puts the config as an attrivute in teh domain entity | 18:46 |
| henrynash | feels a bit weird, but simple | 18:46 |
| gyee | bknudson, not quite, SAML2 assertion | 18:47 |
| ayoung | so...domain config in SQL by itself makes sense. The question is does maintaining LDAP as a mapping separate from the way we do federation make sense? | 18:47 |
| henrynash | alternative would be to perhaps suppost somthing a bit liek nova’s server details, i.e | 18:47 |
| dolphm | henrynash: so, you're expecting ldap passwords and stuff to be in the API? | 18:47 |
| henrynash | GET /domains/{domain_id}/config | 18:47 |
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| henrynash | dolphm: nice point | 18:48 |
| gyee | may want to do another survey to see how many LDAP out there are password protected even for searches | 18:48 |
| henrynash | dolphm: would have to be the encrypted version | 18:48 |
| morganfainberg | gyee, surveys are sent. | 18:48 |
| morganfainberg | gyee to all three MLs | 18:48 |
| amakarov | henrynash, or template of some sort | 18:49 |
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| gyee | password protected LDAP searches specifically? | 18:49 |
| morganfainberg | gyee, lets see how those retuern before asking about passwords | 18:49 |
| gyee | k | 18:49 |
| henrynash | ldap passowrds are ONLY reequired if anonymous searching is not supported | 18:49 |
| morganfainberg | dolphm, this can also be brokered by credential/barbican | 18:49 |
| amakarov | henrynash, with 'the stuff' to be inserted locally | 18:49 |
| henrynash | otehrwise, no passwords needs | 18:49 |
| gyee | I personally have not came across anything like that | 18:49 |
| ayoung | gyee, we have to assume that there is a high lilkyhood that the user to do the LDAP query needs to be authenticated somehow | 18:49 |
| morganfainberg | gyee, AD often does require bind to search | 18:49 |
| gyee | ayoung, unlikely | 18:49 |
| ayoung | gyee, its common to require some authentication | 18:50 |
| ayoung | even if it is just a service user | 18:50 |
| morganfainberg | gyee non-anon bind that is | 18:50 |
| gyee | not for searches | 18:50 |
| morganfainberg | something about SOCKS compliancy. | 18:50 |
| ayoung | it was a requirement we had to implement in FreeIPA | 18:50 |
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| morganfainberg | gyee, yes. i've seen it. | 18:50 |
| bknudson | I assume gyee is talking about large corporate directories... the one I know about doesn't require auth. | 18:50 |
| morganfainberg | gyee almost every AD integration we did at metacloud needed a user/pass to bind for searches against AD | 18:50 |
| dstanek | yes, happens all the time due to regulations | 18:51 |
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| gyee | SOX compliance? | 18:51 |
| morganfainberg | in anycase henrynash, i think we need credential API support or barbican support for this. | 18:51 |
| morganfainberg | SOCKS! toe socks comp... sorry i'll stop | 18:52 |
| henrynash | so I had assumed we would use the same encyption technique taht we do in the config files. | 18:52 |
| gyee | SUCK compliance :) | 18:52 |
| gyee | SUCKS | 18:52 |
| morganfainberg | henrynash, i think we should discuss this at the midcycle as well specifically on the security and password concerns | 18:52 |
| henrynash | morganfainberg: meaning you store the ldap creds and then fill it in “on teh backend” | 18:52 |
| bknudson | config files aren't encrypted | 18:52 |
| henrynash | bknudson: but I think the password is, no? | 18:52 |
| morganfainberg | henrynash, not really. | 18:53 |
| dstanek | henrynash: when pulling out the config from SQL would you whitelist what can be return or blacklist passwords, keys, etc? | 18:53 |
| gyee | obfuscated | 18:53 |
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| amakarov | gyee, not enough | 18:53 |
| morganfainberg | dstanek, this is why i think it needs to go in credential or barbican - something we can be more watchful of | 18:53 |
| dstanek | morganfainberg: ++ | 18:53 |
| henrynash | dstanek: we certainly could (in teh same way we do with the user record) | 18:54 |
| * morganfainberg comments on needing to "fix" credential | 18:54 | |
| ayoung | I think wee punt on this henrynash . We kindof want to go a different way | 18:54 |
| bknudson | since we can stick anything in credential or policy backend, put the config file in there. | 18:54 |
| ayoung | And it avoids all these issues | 18:54 |
| henrynash | ayoung: on which bit? | 18:54 |
| gyee | amakarov, did oslo.config have the secured option? | 18:54 |
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| morganfainberg | bknudson, that might be the easiest solution | 18:54 |
| ayoung | if we say "non trivial LDAP is done using SSSD and Federation" | 18:54 |
| morganfainberg | ayoung, that is a separate discussion | 18:54 |
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| morganfainberg | ayoung, but related | 18:54 |
| lbragstad | gyee: what's your definition of secured? | 18:55 |
| ayoung | morganfainberg, it is an argument against his proposal | 18:55 |
| morganfainberg | this is something we'll need to discuss at the midcycle. | 18:55 |
| bknudson | oslo.config has a secret=True option but that just means it's not printed out when debug the config. | 18:55 |
| ayoung | and I don't want to just say "no" without explaining why | 18:55 |
| morganfainberg | we have 5 mins, so lets table | 18:55 |
| morganfainberg | and discuss next week | 18:55 |
| amakarov | gyee, don't know | 18:55 |
| ayoung | ideally, LDAP would be just another form of Federation | 18:55 |
| henrynash | ok, sounds like yamd (yet another midcylce discussion) | 18:55 |
| morganfainberg | krykowski, o/ | 18:55 |
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| krykowski | hi :) | 18:56 |
| morganfainberg | #topic Keystone upgrades implementation status and known problems | 18:56 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Keystone upgrades implementation status and known problems (Meeting topic: Keystone)" | 18:56 | |
| gyee | lbragstad, I thought oslo.config have an secured property for a config option, no? | 18:56 |
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| krykowski | I wanted to ask if Keystone is going to adopt oslo.versionedobjects? any status on that? | 18:56 |
| morganfainberg | this is short i know, but wanted to get you a couple minutes | 18:56 |
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| morganfainberg | krykowski, not in kilo | 18:56 |
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| morganfainberg | krykowski, but i'd like to see it on the table and evaluated for L. | 18:56 |
| krykowski | are there are plans for it to land? a spec for example? | 18:56 |
| morganfainberg | krykowski, no spec yet. there hasn't been any real discussion on it | 18:57 |
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| krykowski | got it, you probably seen that there is already a spec in Heat to adopt this, to be ready to handle such updates | 18:57 |
| krykowski | #link http://specs.openstack.org/openstack/heat-specs/specs/kilo/versioned-objects | 18:57 |
| morganfainberg | i'd be happy to see some discussion occur in #openstack-keystone on it (please come and bug us!) so it can be made a priority/or determine why it wont work for L-cycle | 18:57 |
| morganfainberg | in keystone | 18:57 |
| gyee | ayoung, if we use SSSD, we have to make CMS a hell lot easier | 18:58 |
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| gyee | unless SSSD can dynamically reload the config files | 18:58 |
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| morganfainberg | henrynash, we can also continue discussion on it in -keystone today/this week | 18:58 |
| ayoung | gyee, heh...exactly what I was wondering myself. | 18:58 |
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| morganfainberg | krykowski, so i think the option is there, but it wont happen in Kilo, if we have the discussion now we can prioritize for L | 18:59 |
| morganfainberg | krykowski, is the answer to your question | 18:59 |
| henrynash | morganfainberg: yep, good…tomorrow..for me | 18:59 |
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| morganfainberg | ok last thing to be said | 18:59 |
| dolphm | krykowski: are you asking if keystone would approve use of oslo.versionedobjects, or asking for a volunteer to implement it? | 18:59 |
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| krykowski | I'd like to submit some spec for it for further discussion (event if occur in L-release) | 18:59 |
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| morganfainberg | ++ | 19:00 |
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| morganfainberg | krykowski, we would need someone to help with the impl. on it / drive it | 19:00 |
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| morganfainberg | anyway we're out of time. | 19:00 |
| morganfainberg | Last note: | 19:00 |
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| morganfainberg | please do bug triage! ( lbragstad has been doing it, some more eyes would help) | 19:00 |
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| morganfainberg | further talk on all topics in -keystone channel | 19:00 |
| morganfainberg | #endmeeting | 19:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 19:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Jan 13 19:00:58 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 19:01 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2015/keystone.2015-01-13-18.00.html | 19:01 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2015/keystone.2015-01-13-18.00.txt | 19:01 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2015/keystone.2015-01-13-18.00.log.html | 19:01 |
| fungi | infra team meeting commence | 19:01 |
| pleia2 | o/ | 19:01 |
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| fungi | jeblair: are you around enough to chair, or want someone else to take care of it this week? | 19:01 |
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| jeblair | fungi: i am here | 19:01 |
| jeblair | i suspect we may be a little light though | 19:01 |
| yolanda | o/ | 19:01 |
| fungi | indeed (i know i am) | 19:01 |
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| jeblair | yeesh | 19:01 |
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| zaro | o/ | 19:01 |
| jeblair | #startmeeting infra | 19:02 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Jan 13 19:02:14 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is jeblair. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 19:02 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 19:02 |
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| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:02 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'infra' | 19:02 |
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| jeblair | #link agenda https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/InfraTeamMeeting | 19:02 |
| ianw | o/ | 19:02 |
| jeblair | #link previous meeting http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2015/infra.2015-01-06-19.02.html | 19:02 |
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| SergeyLukjanov | o/ | 19:02 |
| krtaylor | o/ | 19:02 |
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| jeblair | several of us are otherwise occupied at LCA, so this may be an abbreviated meeting | 19:03 |
| jeblair | #topic Actions from last meeting | 19:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Actions from last meeting (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:03 | |
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| jeblair | asselin update module split staging change and merge asap | 19:03 |
| asselin | hi, | 19:03 |
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| fungi | that's done and merged i believe? | 19:03 |
| fungi | i think i approved it anyway | 19:03 |
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| asselin | Yes, fungi merged it last week | 19:04 |
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| asselin | I added a sprint here (looking for link) | 19:04 |
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| jeblair | good! so we should be in a good place for the sprint on jan 28 | 19:04 |
| asselin | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/VirtualSprints#Schedule_of_Upcoming_OpenStack_Virtual_Sprints | 19:04 |
| fungi | awesome--thanks asselin! | 19:05 |
| asselin | Just need a time & duration | 19:05 |
| jeblair | 24 hours? | 19:05 |
| asselin | Should be good | 19:05 |
| krtaylor | asselin, great! how can we help, are you going to have an example? | 19:05 |
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| asselin | krtaylor, yes, I have an etherpad to track it | 19:06 |
| asselin | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/puppet-module-split-sprint | 19:06 |
| jeblair | want to start at 1500 utc? or earlier if fungi or SergeyLukjanov are up for it? | 19:06 |
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| SergeyLukjanov | jeblair, I think yup | 19:06 |
| fungi | cool with me for 1500 or earlier | 19:06 |
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| asselin | I'm in california...need to convert it | 19:06 |
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| asselin | and wondering who else is interested to participate | 19:07 |
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| Daviey | Is there a theme or list yet? | 19:07 |
| * jesusaurus wants to participate | 19:07 | |
| jeblair | Daviey: it's a single-topic sprint to get all our puppet modules split | 19:07 |
| asselin | we should be set, but I'd like to do a few practice ones to make sure everything is smooth | 19:07 |
| Daviey | jeblair: thanks | 19:07 |
| asselin | I have recheck-watch ready | 19:08 |
| SergeyLukjanov | jeblair, just to ensure - Jan 28 1500 utc? | 19:08 |
| jeblair | SergeyLukjanov: yep | 19:08 |
| jeblair | would someone line to send an announcement out to -infra and -dev about that? | 19:08 |
| jeblair | like | 19:08 |
| SergeyLukjanov | I can do it | 19:08 |
| jeblair | SergeyLukjanov: cool, thanks | 19:08 |
| jeblair | #action SergeyLukjanov send announcement about puppet module split to infra and dev | 19:08 |
| jeblair | asselin: will you update the wiki with the time details? | 19:09 |
| asselin | jeblair, will do | 19:09 |
| krtaylor | I also added it to the third-party wg agenda | 19:09 |
| jeblair | krtaylor: ooh thanks! | 19:09 |
| asselin | SergeyLukjanov, please ask ppl who are interested to put their names in the etherpad | 19:09 |
| SergeyLukjanov | ack | 19:09 |
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| asselin | sprint page updated. thanks! | 19:10 |
| jeblair | cool, anything else about this topic? | 19:10 |
| asselin | SergeyLukjanov, actually this link is probably best: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/VirtualSprints#OpenStack_puppet_module_split | 19:10 |
| asselin | jeblair, nope thanks | 19:11 |
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| SergeyLukjanov | asselin, yeah, it's a good endpoint for folks who're interested in it | 19:11 |
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| jeblair | i think we'll skip swift logs, and we just covered puppet module split... | 19:12 |
| jeblair | anyone here to talk about nodepool dib? | 19:12 |
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| fungi | clarkb: was out on an errand but i have mostly working knowledge of its current state | 19:12 |
| jeblair | #topic Priority Efforts: Nodepool DIB | 19:12 |
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| fungi | at this point image builds seem to be working in hpcloud and we're working through options for dealing with cache update concurrency problems | 19:13 |
| jeblair | what's cache update concurrency problems in a nutshell? | 19:13 |
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| fungi | we can build one image at a time fine, but if they launch at the same time they try to update some of the same things in the common cache and then all but one choke on file locks | 19:13 |
| fungi | #link https://review.openstack.org/146925 | 19:14 |
| fungi | is one proposed workaround | 19:14 |
| yolanda | fungi, but images are built based on a queue, right? | 19:14 |
| jeblair | yeah, that was my understanding | 19:14 |
| fungi | yolanda: they're updated in parallel | 19:14 |
| yolanda | so it's sequential build | 19:14 |
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| fungi | sequential image creation is something we discussed as an alternative | 19:14 |
| fungi | since they are relatively fast compared to snapshot image builds | 19:14 |
| jeblair | fungi: as i understand it, that's the implementation | 19:14 |
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| fungi | huh, well if that's the intended implementation it's not how it's currently working. three diskimage creation runs start more or less simultaneously and one of them succeeds while the other two fail on file lock errors | 19:15 |
| jeblair | fungi: i mean, this is kind of embarassing, because i reviewed a lot of that code, and i thought, "great, this looks like a swell serial queue system for building images" | 19:15 |
| jeblair | fungi: did we accidentally do a builder per-provider or something like that? | 19:16 |
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| fungi | i'll regroup with clarkb when he gets back and see if we can untangle that | 19:16 |
| fungi | i mean, it's one of the "solutions" we were talking about implementing for it, so sounds like it has some support ;) | 19:16 |
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| yolanda | i've been running that for a while and it just runs one dib process each time, this may be some use case not working fine | 19:17 |
| jeblair | okay. and yeah, i wasn't anticipating this problem, but i was anticipating that the nodepool server had finite resources and we would not be able to build many images at once | 19:17 |
| jeblair | so that was the basis for wanting to start with serialized | 19:17 |
| clarkb | it may be a separate issue with the cache | 19:17 |
| jeblair | fungi, yolanda, clarkb: thanks for looking into it | 19:18 |
| fungi | stale locks? | 19:18 |
| clarkb | permissions or othe filesystem issues | 19:18 |
| fungi | i'll double-check the image update logs to make sure they're running concurrently like we're suspecting | 19:18 |
| fungi | but yeah, maybe we jumped to conclusions there | 19:18 |
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| jeblair | #topic Upgrading Gerrit (zaro) | 19:19 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Upgrading Gerrit (zaro) (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:19 | |
| jeblair | zaro: how's it going? | 19:19 |
| zaro | it's going alright. | 19:19 |
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| SergeyLukjanov | is it update to 2.9? | 19:20 |
| zaro | just realized that newer versions of gerrit need a bouncy castle jar that's no availble on precies | 19:20 |
| zaro | SergeyLukjanov: yes | 19:20 |
| zaro | so we need to upgrade the gerrit server to trusty | 19:20 |
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| jeblair | i think that's a fine thing to do anyway | 19:21 |
| fungi | i can go ahead and work on building a new review-dev running on trusty this afternoon or tomorrow | 19:21 |
| zaro | asked fungi to switch review-dev to a trusty server. just waiting for that. now | 19:21 |
| fungi | zaro: can you handle getting the git repos copied over? | 19:21 |
| fungi | the initial server build _should_ go quickly but it's not self-bootstrapping | 19:22 |
| zaro | also zuul-dev seems to be out of wack so fungi reset it for me, but wanted to test review-dev (trusty) with zuul-dev, so just waiting for new review-dev before proceeding further. | 19:22 |
| fungi | and having a written log of what we had to copy to the new server for review-dev will help us put together a similar trusty migration plan for production | 19:22 |
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| zaro | fungi: sure | 19:23 |
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| jeblair | cool, thanks! | 19:23 |
| jeblair | #topic Options for procedural -2 (jeblair) | 19:24 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Options for procedural -2 (jeblair) (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:24 | |
| jeblair | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/procedural_-2 | 19:24 |
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| jeblair | we've gotten requests for the ability for cores to indicate that a patch will not (must not) merge for temporary procedural reasons | 19:24 |
| jeblair | eg, feature freeze, or in our own case, "waiting for scheduled maintenance window" | 19:25 |
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| jeblair | i did some brainstorming based on what we currently have available in gerrit | 19:25 |
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| jeblair | and i'm not happy with anything we can do in our current version | 19:26 |
| jeblair | you can see what i came up with and my reasons on the etherpad | 19:26 |
| jeblair | i tend to think that the best resolution is probably a gerrit plugin, and maybe the WIP plugin is actually all we need | 19:26 |
| jeblair | (or if we want to extend it with another state, that could work too) | 19:26 |
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| fungi | yeah, i agree with everything you've written there. we need a sticky status for a change, so a plugin seems necessary | 19:27 |
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| fungi | everything else has side effects | 19:27 |
| jeblair | so how about this? mull this over a bit, and see if anyone comes up with any other ideas and maybe next week we decide on something? | 19:27 |
| zaro | i think WIP plugin should do it because i believe it introduces a state. | 19:27 |
| fungi | sounds good | 19:28 |
| jeblair | zaro: can you look into the current status of the wip plugin and find out if it is ready for use (in either 2.8 or 2.9?) | 19:28 |
| zaro | definately only in 2.9+ | 19:28 |
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| jeblair | kk. good thing someone is already working on that. :) | 19:28 |
| zaro | but can also test it against 2.9 myself. | 19:28 |
| zaro | just to make sure it's in a good state still | 19:29 |
| jeblair | #topic Fedora 21 (ianw 6/1) | 19:29 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Fedora 21 (ianw 6/1) (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:29 | |
| ianw | just a few reviews there to ping on | 19:29 |
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| ianw | i think we can just replace the f20 d-i-b build in nodepool with f21 at this point | 19:30 |
| ianw | a quick one for centos image builds (https://review.openstack.org/145959) | 19:30 |
| jeblair | nothing is using f20? | 19:30 |
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| ianw | not d-i-b nodes | 19:30 |
| jeblair | got it. makes sense. | 19:30 |
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| ianw | also review to switch the devstack tests to f21; experimental jobs show test is working and all devstack bits merged -> https://review.openstack.org/146760 | 19:31 |
| ianw | i'll move any remaining f20 users with the hope of removing f20 nodes and just have f21 | 19:32 |
| ianw | that's all | 19:32 |
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| ianw | also, in the last minute, sdague approved that one above for f21 devstack jobs :) | 19:33 |
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| fungi | cool | 19:33 |
| ianw | oh and just a ping for -> https://review.openstack.org/146822 | 19:33 |
| jeblair | #topic Open Discussion | 19:33 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:33 | |
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| ianw | Adding devstack-plugin-glusterfs project to stackforge | 19:33 |
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| jeblair | ah, first devstack-plugin-project | 19:33 |
| ianw | it hasn't been out long, but these guys are really keen to get their devstack plugin glusterfs working | 19:33 |
| ianw | yeah, if anyone didn't see it, i wrote up https://review.openstack.org/146679 about devstack-plugins | 19:34 |
| fungi | there's been some acknowledgement from barry warsaw about the state of our python 3.4 ubuntu bugs, though he's waiting on matthias klose to get back from travelling to address them | 19:34 |
| fungi | thanks to dhellmann for pinging barry via e-mail | 19:34 |
| jeblair | fungi: oh good, thanks you and dhellmann! | 19:36 |
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| fungi | oh, and i moved paste.openstack.org back to a local database, so keep an eye out for any (old or new) issues with it | 19:36 |
| jeblair | fungi: thanks for that. and :( | 19:36 |
| pleia2 | just a quick zanata update, making progress but ran into some sections that are undocumented setup-wise, so I'm currently working with camunoz of redhat to fill in those gaps | 19:36 |
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| pleia2 | I think we're the first team outside of redhat to deploy this on our own, so growing pains :) | 19:36 |
| fungi | and as zaro mentioned, i rebuilt zuul-dev so if you have anything on the old filesystem i haven't deleted the instance yet but will likely do so soon. fair warning | 19:36 |
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| asselin | I'm working on an in-tree 3rd party ci spec. I have lots of +1s for "yes this is a good idea". I'd like some more opinions on the best way to structure it and get there. https://review.openstack.org/#/c/139745/3/specs/thirdpartyci.rst | 19:38 |
| jeblair | pleia2: thanks! | 19:38 |
| jeblair | fungi: ack. nothing here | 19:38 |
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| jeblair | asselin: +1 good idea! :) it'll probably be a little bit before i can give it the attention i need to | 19:39 |
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| asselin | ok | 19:39 |
| fungi | oh, and krotscheck brought up a great point with using docs-draft for storyboard-webclient changes with storyboard-dev on https with a self-signed cert. ajax means cross-domain javascript protections will magically break without manual browser-side preparation | 19:40 |
| asselin | for anyone else interested or experience with puppet and/or system-config project, take a look and let me know. thanks! | 19:41 |
| fungi | but then we realized that docs-draft is serving the ui via http, so decided that it should be perfectly safe to do http for the api on storyboard-dev | 19:41 |
| fungi | so that's the current plan there | 19:41 |
| krotscheck | fungi: Speaking of which, do you want to do that or should i? | 19:42 |
| fungi | krotscheck: if you want to have a go at it, great. if not, i'll probably get to it but not quickly | 19:42 |
| krotscheck | fungi: wfm | 19:43 |
| krotscheck | I’ll put it on the list | 19:43 |
| fungi | thanks! | 19:43 |
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| jeblair | thanks everyone! | 19:44 |
| jeblair | #endmeeting | 19:44 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 19:44 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Jan 13 19:44:14 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 19:44 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2015/infra.2015-01-13-19.02.html | 19:44 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2015/infra.2015-01-13-19.02.txt | 19:44 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2015/infra.2015-01-13-19.02.log.html | 19:44 |
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| mikal | Hello | 19:58 |
| dhellmann | o/ | 19:58 |
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| devananda | o/ | 19:59 |
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| ttx | o/ | 20:00 |
| ttx | Anyone here for the TC meeting ? | 20:00 |
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| jeblair | o/ | 20:00 |
| russellb | o/ | 20:00 |
| vishy | o/ | 20:00 |
| vishy | my internet connection is weak | 20:00 |
| vishy | so i may drop out | 20:00 |
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| annegentle_ | hey | 20:00 |
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| dhellmann | o/ | 20:00 |
| annegentle_ | and I hafta leave a little early | 20:00 |
| ttx | jgriffith, mikal, mordred, devananda, markmcclain, jaypipes, sdague: around ? | 20:00 |
| jeblair | mine too (hotel) | 20:00 |
| devananda | \o | 20:00 |
| annegentle_ | but my internet is amazing | 20:00 |
| ttx | "The Inetrenet is weak in this one" | 20:00 |
| jaypipes | o/ | 20:01 |
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| jgriffith | o/ | 20:01 |
| sdague | o/ | 20:01 |
| mikal | Heya | 20:01 |
| ttx | sounds like quorum | 20:01 |
| ttx | easier to reach than for a bylaws change | 20:01 |
| ttx | #startmeeting tc | 20:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Jan 13 20:01:44 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is ttx. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 20:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 20:01 |
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| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:01 | |
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| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'tc' | 20:01 |
| ttx | Our agenda for today: | 20:01 |
| ttx | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/TechnicalCommittee | 20:01 |
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| ttx | First, a number of changes about the project structure reform | 20:02 |
| ttx | #topic Template for tags definition | 20:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Template for tags definition (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:02 | |
| ttx | #link https://review.openstack.org/145734 | 20:02 |
| ttx | This one is the first step, defining a base template to use to define future tags | 20:02 |
| ttx | In this new patchset I included the "category" concept that multiple people suggested. | 20:02 |
| ttx | I also separated (as requested) proposing the tag definition from applying the tag to existing projects, to facilitate adoption of proposed tags | 20:03 |
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| ttx | So in the tag definition you only list examples of projects that would likely get the tag applied, rather than proposing the full governance change | 20:03 |
| ttx | Comments / discussion on that one ? | 20:03 |
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| mikal | Seems that review is quite new? | 20:03 |
| ttx | I guess we can refine the template as we go, doesn't have to be perfect the first time | 20:03 |
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| ttx | mikal: proposed Jan 8 | 20:04 |
| mikal | I'll take a look at it later today | 20:04 |
| mikal | ttx: sure, so last week sometime | 20:04 |
| jaypipes | +1 from me on it. | 20:04 |
| jeblair | i think the 2 step process is good. what's the example use of categories? | 20:04 |
| mikal | ttx: not angry, just noting I haven't looked at it yet | 20:04 |
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| ttx | mikal: I suspect LCA makes you a busy man | 20:04 |
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| mikal | ttx: its true, I am in fact in a keynote right now | 20:04 |
| ttx | jeblair: typically release:coordinated, release:compatible etc | 20:04 |
| jeblair | i am not, so i really hope they don't call my name | 20:05 |
| mikal | jeblair: heh | 20:05 |
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| mikal | jeblair: if they do you'll never live it down | 20:05 |
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| ttx | Let's move on to the second part | 20:05 |
| sdague | ttx: so a lot of tags are going to end up with reference materials, have we thought about ways to express that? | 20:05 |
| jeblair | ttx: is there something about the category structure that optimizes it? | 20:05 |
| sdague | docs:api-reference-partial:<some url> | 20:06 |
| jeblair | ttx: like, do you still have to define foo:bar and foo:qux as separate tags, each with a tc review, etc? | 20:06 |
| ttx | jeblair: I didn't want to over-engineer it before the tags start coming | 20:06 |
| annegentle_ | my thinking for docs, though, is that if we cant' automate the tagging, it's not worthwhile | 20:06 |
| jeblair | ttx: or is it purely just a suggestion for how to name them? | 20:06 |
| annegentle_ | it's just another truth test I won't be able to keep up with | 20:06 |
| ttx | jeblair: so far it's a name. But we could share some process within the same category | 20:06 |
| jeblair | ttx: yeah, not suggesting that, just trying to determine how much they have been engineered. ok sounds good. | 20:06 |
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| ttx | annegentle_: automating is fine if you can manage it | 20:07 |
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| annegentle_ | ttx: I'm saying if the tags aren't accurate what good are they | 20:07 |
| dhellmann | annegentle_: you could also delegate that to the projects, who will be motivated to keep their tags up to date | 20:07 |
| annegentle_ | ttx: and it's too difficult to autmoate some of that | 20:07 |
| annegentle_ | dhellmann: yeah that makes sense | 20:07 |
| annegentle_ | not trying to over engineer, believe me :) | 20:07 |
| ttx | annegentle_: no you're right... not sure we can avoid some staleness in data (much like the list of repos sometimes lags reality) | 20:08 |
| annegentle_ | thinking docs especially will have a tough time marking completeness | 20:08 |
| ttx | sdague: not sure what you mean by 'reference materials' | 20:08 |
| annegentle_ | but driver coverage, api call coverage, sure | 20:08 |
| mikal | Oh interesting | 20:09 |
| mikal | Do we put sunsets on tags? | 20:09 |
| mikal | So they expire when they become stale? | 20:09 |
| mikal | Or do we have to manually clean them up when they're no longer true? | 20:09 |
| sdague | ttx: well something like api docs is going to have a url where those api docs exist, which is important first order info for someone evaluating the project | 20:09 |
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| ttx | mikal: by default I would say clean up when false | 20:09 |
| mikal | ttx: a once per release audit thing? | 20:10 |
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| devananda | I'm struggling to see how a "partial" or "complete" tag makes sense beyond the point in time in which it is tested | 20:10 |
| ttx | sdague: not sure I would pack that attribute in the tag name though | 20:10 |
| jeblair | sdague: though that should also be standardized; eg docs.o.o/something/project | 20:10 |
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| annegentle_ | sdague: good litmus, but right now, projects that aren't blessed don't get to use openstack.org domains | 20:10 |
| ttx | sdague: I see your point -- allowing the tag to have a value basically | 20:10 |
| annegentle_ | sdague: so is it "good enough" to have docs offsite | 20:10 |
| annegentle_ | sdague: or even preferred | 20:10 |
| ttx | mikal: depends on tag I'd say, but yes, a regular audit | 20:11 |
| devananda | ttx: once a "complete" tag is put on something, who audits it? | 20:11 |
| devananda | who determines that it is stale and should "fall back" to partial? | 20:11 |
| mikal | ttx: ok | 20:11 |
| ttx | devananda: shoudl be part of the tag definition, in the process section | 20:11 |
| sdague | annegentle_: it might be. For something like upgrade readiness I'd really want to be able to put a url in there for reference so people have the footnotes of the evaluation | 20:11 |
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| devananda | the projects themselves will not have an incentive to keep these status-based tags up to date | 20:12 |
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| russellb | sdague: seems like we could have metadata with tags expressed as child elements in yaml | 20:12 |
| sdague | if the point of this is to provide assessment material to ops, the footnotes are going to be one of the most interesting parts | 20:12 |
| russellb | as applicable | 20:12 |
| sdague | russellb: sure | 20:12 |
| ttx | devananda: for example, imagine a 'security-supported' tag that says that the VMT is issuing advisories for your project | 20:12 |
| russellb | defined as a part of the tag proposal | 20:12 |
| ttx | that tag requires you to provide a security liaison | 20:12 |
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| dhellmann | sdague, russellb : yeah, I'd like to have a release version associated with the tags to make building the tables easier, too | 20:13 |
| ttx | If the project has a dead liaison, I'd expect the VMt to remove the tag | 20:13 |
| sdague | russellb: yeh, I could definitely go that way as well, that would make it easy to automatically parse | 20:13 |
| ttx | (if nobody steps up) | 20:13 |
| devananda | ttx: ok - that works. the tag doesn't say "is secure" but rather "is supported by security team". | 20:13 |
| ttx | right | 20:13 |
| russellb | dead liason sounds morbid, heh | 20:13 |
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| devananda | ttx: my concern is for tags that indicate a quality, such as "well documented" or "partially documented" | 20:13 |
| annegentle_ | devananda: me too. | 20:13 |
| ttx | devananda: I'd rather have tags describe objectove quality | 20:14 |
| ttx | "partial" sounds a bit.. subjective | 20:14 |
| jaypipes | russellb, sdague: you mean like this? https://review.openstack.org/#/c/126581/2/openstack-projects.yaml | 20:14 |
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| devananda | ttx: if the tag is "doc-syupporeted" -- great. that's measurable and clear. it could mean the doc team is working with doc writers from the project team, and docs are on docs.oo | 20:14 |
| dhellmann | devananda: yeah, I don't think we would approve those sorts of tags at all | 20:14 |
| annegentle_ | ttx: with docs you just can't say | 20:14 |
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| devananda | dhellmann: ok. maybe i misread an earlier comment about partial/complete tags | 20:14 |
| ttx | annegentle_: you could have a "docs:anne-likes-it" | 20:14 |
| annegentle_ | ttx: riiiiiight. | 20:15 |
| annegentle_ | I hate all your docs! /ragequit | 20:15 |
| annegentle_ | :) | 20:15 |
| dhellmann | devananda: or maybe I missed that; either way, I wouldn't want "doneness" included in most of the tags | 20:15 |
| russellb | jaypipes: sure, maybe, something like that anyway :) | 20:15 |
| devananda | dhellmann: cool | 20:15 |
| sdague | jaypipes: yeh, possibly. Though honestly I think reference subtree is probably appropriate. | 20:15 |
| ttx | I'd say that's a bridge we'll cross as more tags are proposed. We should definitely be careful with subjective tags | 20:16 |
| sdague | also... it honestly feels like this kind of needs to be temporal | 20:16 |
| jaypipes | sdague: sorry, not following you... what is a "reference subtree"? | 20:16 |
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| sdague | jaypipes: what russellb proposed | 20:16 |
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| jaypipes | sdague: you mean like this? https://review.openstack.org/#/c/126581/2/project-schema.json | 20:16 |
| russellb | i didn't have anything written down | 20:16 |
| sdague | for instance "upgrade:manual" "upgrade:offline" "upgrade:online" with references to back up those decisions | 20:17 |
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| devananda | ttx: perhaps some guidelines in the template that we should avoid completeness-based and subjectively-applied tags | 20:17 |
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| russellb | just agreeing that 1) the application of a tag could have associated metadata, 2) we can easily capture that in yaml in a tree (and not in the name) | 20:17 |
| ttx | devananda: sounds like a good suggestion -- please add comment and I'll roll it in | 20:17 |
| devananda | ttx: and stick to representational and objectively measurable things | 20:17 |
| sdague | russellb: yeh, honestly, we can extend over time | 20:17 |
| devananda | ack | 20:17 |
| sdague | so the temporal question | 20:17 |
| * markmcclain arrives late | 20:17 | |
| ttx | let's move on to the practical example | 20:18 |
| ttx | #topic Definition of the initial 'integrated-release' tag | 20:18 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Definition of the initial 'integrated-release' tag (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:18 | |
| ttx | That one was split in two (defining and applying): | 20:18 |
| ttx | #link https://review.openstack.org/145735 | 20:18 |
| sdague | it seems like from an operator point of view, the state of things in icehouse vs. the state of things in kilo is a real think | 20:18 |
| ttx | #link https://review.openstack.org/146818 | 20:18 |
| sdague | s/think/thing/ | 20:18 |
| sdague | not just integration status | 20:18 |
| sdague | but for *all of it* | 20:18 |
| * ttx thanks sean for writing that blogpost about splitting commits | 20:18 | |
| ttx | Like Jay mentioned, I think the 'integrated-release' tag should have no category since it's the absolute tag that covers so many different things today | 20:19 |
| jaypipes | ttx: link to that blog? :) | 20:19 |
| jaypipes | or sdague ... | 20:19 |
| ttx | #link https://dague.net/2014/07/24/splitting-up-git-commits/ | 20:19 |
| jaypipes | danke | 20:19 |
| ttx | Apart from that, it's pretty straightforward since it's a frozen tag | 20:19 |
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| ttx | sdague: can't we have that information from git history ? | 20:20 |
| sdague | ttx: that assumes that tags are applied completely synchronisly to whatever functionality is out there | 20:21 |
| ttx | (and from git tags at each cycle) | 20:21 |
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| dhellmann | it would be a lot easier to get if it was just included in the yaml | 20:21 |
| sdague | and that we don't come up with a new tag that we want to apply to currently supported versions of openstack in the field | 20:21 |
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| ttx | sdague: I see your point | 20:21 |
| annegentle_ | I think that there's value in knowing which release things originally went together, but that's not the point is it? | 20:21 |
| sdague | dhellmann: honestly, I think it's a top level construct, it's in the filesystem | 20:21 |
| dhellmann | sdague: or there -- not the git history was my point | 20:22 |
| devananda | there is likely to be some lag time in applying tags anyway | 20:22 |
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| devananda | it is, after all, a separate process from the changes which the tags refer to | 20:22 |
| ttx | sdague: any suggestion on how we could represent that ? | 20:22 |
| devananda | so don't we need a means to represent "this tag applies to the state of $thing at $point in time" | 20:22 |
| sdague | ttx: honestly, I'd do it in the filesystem | 20:23 |
| sdague | juno/projects.yaml | 20:23 |
| annegentle_ | sdague: that would take care of it | 20:23 |
| ttx | sdague: per cycle ? So we would mandate some (limited) adherence to dev cycles for all projects | 20:24 |
| jeblair | i think that's conflating this with the release cycle, and i don't think we should do that | 20:24 |
| devananda | jeblair: ++ | 20:24 |
| sdague | ok, well that's my best idea :) | 20:24 |
| ttx | yes, same point than jeblair | 20:24 |
| annegentle_ | oh yeah. | 20:24 |
| annegentle_ | hm | 20:24 |
| devananda | tag-applies-at-SHA: | 20:24 |
| annegentle_ | sigh | 20:24 |
| sdague | devananda: that's completely useless from an ops perspective | 20:24 |
| dhellmann | yeah, a subproperty under the tag would let us be more flexible about what time marker we use (dates, releases, whatever) | 20:25 |
| jeblair | i'm not certain this needs to be quite so comprehensive | 20:25 |
| ttx | OK, we'll have to brainstorm how we can express tags in two dimensions | 20:25 |
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| ttx | (and if) | 20:25 |
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| jeblair | i mean, just adding notes like "foo achieved online upgrades starting with the lemming release" may convey the needed information | 20:25 |
| ttx | jeblair: ++ | 20:26 |
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| sdague | maybe, how would that be consumed? | 20:26 |
| devananda | sdague: date seems similarly not helpful, then | 20:26 |
| vishy | projects could be required to make release tags | 20:26 |
| jeblair | sdague: by humans reading the notes in jaypipes' tag display/navigation app? | 20:26 |
| sdague | an operator comes to OpenStack capabilities site and navigates to where to get the view | 20:26 |
| vishy | * git tags | 20:26 |
| devananda | jeblair: that isn't machine parseable. and what about projects which dont follow the release cycle? | 20:27 |
| ttx | I speent some cycles seeing if I could easily save the -since info from that YAML but couldn't come with something simple and elegant | 20:27 |
| vishy | using whatever version number they want | 20:27 |
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| jeblair | devananda: "notes: 'foo achieved online upgrades starting with the lemming release'" | 20:27 |
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| vishy | so we could use the 2014.1 tag for example | 20:27 |
| jgriffith | tags seems promising | 20:27 |
| vishy | and swift could use 2.5 | 20:27 |
| vishy | or whatever | 20:27 |
| annegentle_ | tags for tags. sweet. | 20:27 |
| jeblair | vishy: that sounds good | 20:27 |
| sdague | vishy: yeh, release tags are good | 20:27 |
| jgriffith | annegentle_: lol | 20:28 |
| sdague | it should be an artifact that actually escaped | 20:28 |
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| devananda | vishy: +1 | 20:28 |
| jeblair | ttx: also, you can put "integrated-since" back in the new format. ;) | 20:28 |
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| vishy | although branch name might be better | 20:28 |
| ttx | eh | 20:28 |
| vishy | if these need to move | 20:29 |
| sdague | so, honestly, I also expect that with the preponderance of values coming in, we realistically probably want to split up projects.yaml into on per project | 20:29 |
| ttx | sdague: reduce conflicts ? | 20:29 |
| vishy | i suppose if they are “since XXX” they don’t need to move | 20:29 |
| sdague | vishy: I actually think branches are bad for this | 20:29 |
| ttx | ok we need to move on... let's continue the discussion on the review | 20:30 |
| sdague | ttx: yeh, and size of this file | 20:30 |
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| ttx | sdague: I think that can be a subsequent change | 20:30 |
| sdague | ttx: agreed | 20:30 |
| ttx | #topic Move from program-based structure to project-based (including new projects requirements) | 20:30 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Move from program-based structure to project-based (including new projects requirements) (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:30 | |
| ttx | #link https://review.openstack.org/145740 | 20:30 |
| ttx | So... this one is obviously more open-ended. There are two sides in it: | 20:30 |
| ttx | 1/ switch wording from "programs" (with their expectation of exclusivity) to a team-oriented "projects" concept | 20:30 |
| ttx | 2/ define base objective requirements for new projects -- in effect, what you must meet to be considered "an OpenStack project" | 20:31 |
| ttx | On the first one there were comments on the wording -- basically should we call "the Nova project" what the Nova team works on | 20:31 |
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| ttx | On the second one the comments were mostly about details (should we recommend Apache licensing, should we require logged IRC channels, and how to best express the Keystone interoperability requirement | 20:31 |
| ttx | Not sure everyone got their chance to review those in context yet though. | 20:31 |
| dhellmann | do we need to ditch the word "program" or is it enough to redefine it? | 20:31 |
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| ttx | From my previous discussions it appeared there was lack of convergence on those, and that lack is not really showing in comments yet. | 20:32 |
| ttx | dhellmann: I think we need to ditch it | 20:32 |
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| ttx | dhellmann: nobody ever got what it meant -- and now it conlicts with "trademark license programs" | 20:32 |
| dhellmann | I just thought keeping it would let us eliminate the issue with overloading the term "project" | 20:32 |
| dhellmann | ah, ok | 20:32 |
| ttx | the problem is program as a theme aspect -- Deployment is a program | 20:33 |
| ttx | has* | 20:33 |
| annegentle_ | yeah I think it's tough to explain programs v projects (and now v trademark program) | 20:33 |
| ttx | TripleO is not a program, it's a project | 20:33 |
| jeblair | we'll just have to say 'the openstack project' when we mean that now. which, honestly, i've had to do for a while anyway. | 20:33 |
| ttx | I think everyone says "the Nova project" -- nobody says "the Nova program" | 20:34 |
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| annegentle_ | ayup | 20:34 |
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| ttx | so let's just use what people already use | 20:34 |
| morganfainberg | ttx, ++ | 20:34 |
| ttx | agree there is /some/ collision with "the OpenStack project" | 20:34 |
| mikal | We do say "Compute Program", but we don't know what it means | 20:34 |
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| ttx | mikal: heh | 20:34 |
| mikal | So "Nova Project" makes more sense to me to be honest | 20:34 |
| sdague | mikal: ++ | 20:35 |
| markmcclain | ++ | 20:35 |
| mikal | I do want better words for "OpenStack projects" though | 20:35 |
| mikal | Cause I don't like using project at two levels | 20:35 |
| mikal | Perhaps "OpenStack Ecosystem" | 20:35 |
| ttx | Ecosystem / Projects / Code repositories | 20:35 |
| ttx | that would be the 3 levels | 20:36 |
| mikal | That works for me | 20:36 |
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| devananda | mikal: ++ | 20:36 |
| mikal | Programs made it hard to explain IMHO | 20:36 |
| annegentle_ | that reflects reality | 20:36 |
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| ttx | btw, tags apply to repositories | 20:36 |
| annegentle_ | is it docs project then? | 20:36 |
| annegentle_ | infra project? | 20:36 |
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| ttx | annegentle_: yes? | 20:36 |
| annegentle_ | I think so (docs project) | 20:36 |
| annegentle_ | just making sure | 20:36 |
| ttx | release cycle management project might need some rebranding | 20:37 |
| ttx | because that sounds weird :) | 20:37 |
| jeblair | so, the tc governs the ecosystem? | 20:37 |
| mikal | ttx: How about "Operation Kermit Arms"? | 20:37 |
| ttx | the ecosystem of OpenStack projects yes | 20:37 |
| ttx | mikal: lol | 20:37 |
| annegentle_ | one other question coming in is, does a stackforge repo get tagged? | 20:37 |
| jeblair | sounds a little bit of a reach to me. | 20:37 |
| ttx | annegentle_: no | 20:37 |
| dhellmann | jeblair: yeah, I think ecosystem is generally understood to include things we don't control | 20:38 |
| ttx | but then I expect some stackforge project to apply to become openstack projects and be accepted | 20:38 |
| devananda | annegentle_: but they can ask to move to openstack/ more easily now | 20:38 |
| ttx | I invite you all to continue that discussion on the changes themselves, and we'll continue that discussion next week -- we have a couple more items to cover today | 20:38 |
| annegentle_ | what if no PTL wants it? | 20:38 |
| annegentle_ | (asking for a friend) | 20:39 |
| devananda | ttx: how does ecosystem/project/repository describe divergent solutions to the same problem? | 20:39 |
| ttx | annegentle_: they would have their own PTL | 20:39 |
| annegentle_ | got it | 20:39 |
| ttx | they don't need to be adoped | 20:39 |
| ttx | +t | 20:39 |
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| annegentle_ | sorry have to step afk for a few but will catch up | 20:39 |
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| ttx | devananda: multiple projects can share overlapping scopes ? | 20:39 |
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| devananda | ttx: yes | 20:40 |
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| ttx | ok, moving on -- please comment on those changes | 20:40 |
| ttx | #topic Tally votes on log guidelines openstack-spec | 20:40 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Tally votes on log guidelines openstack-spec (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:40 | |
| ttx | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/132552/ | 20:40 |
| ttx | The TC is supposed to tally the votes from PTLs and the crowd on specs in openstack-specs, and I think that time has come for the log guidelines one | 20:40 |
| ttx | It's been discussed at last week's cross-project meeting | 20:40 |
| ttx | Some people said there was room for improvement in the future, but nobody opposed this version of the spec as a first step | 20:41 |
| devananda | wow, most votes I think I've ever seen on a patch. awesome | 20:41 |
| ttx | It's the first one we do so I'm not sure how to proceed -- we can do it same style as TC votes I guess | 20:41 |
| ttx | or have one of us just tally the vote and Workflow+1 it | 20:42 |
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| ttx | suggestions? | 20:42 |
| mikal | Oh poo | 20:42 |
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| mikal | I just accidentally +W'ed that logs change | 20:42 |
| vishy | i like tally and workflow+1 | 20:42 |
| sdague | honestly, I think doing it like normal repo, no -2 votes means it's able to be approved by anyone with +2 | 20:42 |
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| dhellmann | I'd like to use the normal TC voting procedurs | 20:42 |
| dhellmann | mikal: heh | 20:42 |
| ttx | mikal: nice! | 20:42 |
| mikal | How do I un +2? | 20:42 |
| mikal | +W I mean | 20:42 |
| dhellmann | sdague: I don't think 2 people should make decisions for the entire project. That's the point of bringing it under TC voting. | 20:42 |
| * ttx turns his +1 to +2 | 20:42 | |
| jeblair | mikal: vote again | 20:42 |
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| ttx | well it merged | 20:43 |
| jeblair | ++ normal tc voting procedures | 20:43 |
| ttx | so it's a bit late | 20:43 |
| mikal | jeblair: sorry, merged too fast | 20:43 |
| mikal | Sorry guys | 20:43 |
| ttx | I knew we couldn't trust mikal with such powerz | 20:43 |
| sdague | jeblair: so if we want that we should remove +A from everyone but ttx | 20:43 |
| sdague | I thought we specifically stated this was normal specs rules when we got started though? | 20:43 |
| ttx | yes | 20:43 |
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| ttx | sdague: we did say that | 20:44 |
| dhellmann | that's not what I remember | 20:44 |
| ttx | that any TC member could tally the votes | 20:44 |
| ttx | which is why we all have APRV rights | 20:44 |
| dhellmann | ok, but 2 votes of +2 shouldn't be enough for this one | 20:44 |
| ttx | It actually has 6 +2s | 20:44 |
| dhellmann | right, I meant this repo | 20:45 |
| devananda | in either case, it has 6 +2's from TC and enough +1's from representatives of different projects that I feel comfortable with it | 20:45 |
| dhellmann | sorry, not being clear | 20:45 |
| ttx | dhellmann: oic | 20:45 |
| jeblair | i think i may have an outstanding action item to do something about the permissions here | 20:45 |
| dhellmann | yeah, I'm completely happy with this particular spec | 20:45 |
| sdague | dhellmann: so I think the important part is no -2 after some amount of clear time | 20:45 |
| jeblair | http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2014/tc.2014-10-28-20.03.html | 20:45 |
| ttx | I'm fine with limiting W+1 to TC chair and tally the vote using TC members +2 | 20:45 |
| sdague | when it's clearly had time to breath | 20:45 |
| jeblair | i think that got assigned to me and then *summit*. sorry. | 20:46 |
| ttx | if you think that will avoid accidental W+1 | 20:46 |
| dhellmann | sdague: maybe that's good enough | 20:46 |
| ttx | let's fix it before the next one needs to be approved | 20:46 |
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| mikal | I think using the TC voting rules makes sense to be honest | 20:46 |
| mikal | Because this repo isn't something that's a core focus for a lot of people | 20:46 |
| mikal | So getting prompted in a meeting to look by ttx is useful | 20:47 |
| ttx | jeblair: did you have something different in mind ? | 20:47 |
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| sdague | fwiw - http://paste.openstack.org/show/157307/ | 20:48 |
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| jeblair | i'm reading the meeting log | 20:48 |
| ttx | maybe we can move that to the list or a future meeting, still a couple items to cover | 20:48 |
| ttx | #topic Removal Plans for keystoneclient.middleware.auth_token | 20:48 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Removal Plans for keystoneclient.middleware.auth_token (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:48 | |
| sdague | jeblair: yeh, that's the relevant snipet I think | 20:48 |
| sdague | at least the right time box | 20:48 |
| ttx | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2015-January/054059.html | 20:48 |
| morganfainberg | o/ | 20:49 |
| ttx | morganfainberg posted this to the -dev ML, requesting the TC members opinion on how to solve that backward compatibility dilemma | 20:49 |
| ttx | #action ttx to put openstack-specs approval rules back on agenda in a future meeting | 20:49 |
| morganfainberg | this is not a common issue with client libs. most don't have middleware like keystoneclient does. | 20:49 |
| sdague | morganfainberg: it can be generalized to any interface use though | 20:50 |
| morganfainberg | sdague, ++ | 20:50 |
| dhellmann | yeah, this came up in a similar way with oslo libs | 20:50 |
| sdague | so I don't think that keystoneclient is really exceptional here | 20:50 |
| morganfainberg | sdague, we're just at a point where we are ready to drop support in favor or something else. | 20:50 |
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| dhellmann | we talked about capping the requirements in stable branches, but ran into implementation issues and then I got busy on other things | 20:50 |
| ttx | sdague: just another incarnation of the 'cap on stable' need ? | 20:50 |
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| sdague | ttx I think so - http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2015-January/054156.html was my best stab and putting down my thoughts | 20:51 |
| ttx | yes, that was very helpful | 20:51 |
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| morganfainberg | i figured sdague's repsonse was probably the clearest direction to take / focus | 20:51 |
| ttx | dhellmann: the question is more -- are those issues solvable. But that's not really a topic for this meeting | 20:51 |
| sdague | so this remains one of those holes in doing stable compat testing correctly, instead of in our odd adhoc way | 20:52 |
| sdague | and needs some champions | 20:52 |
| dhellmann | ttx: yeah, every issue was a result of a test we were running, so we could decide to change them | 20:52 |
| ttx | feels like we need to put a number of people in a room and lock it until stable capping is done. And I would probably be in that room | 20:52 |
| ttx | but yes, orthogonal discussion | 20:53 |
| morganfainberg | depending on the room size and number of people that project could get done faster or slower :P | 20:53 |
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| ttx | morgabra: do you agree that stable capping would solve the issue ? | 20:53 |
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| ttx | morganfainberg: ^ | 20:53 |
| morganfainberg | yes, capping should solve the issue | 20:53 |
| ttx | multiple morga<TAB< | 20:53 |
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| ttx | morganfainberg: ok, we probably have a way forward then | 20:53 |
| morganfainberg | ttx at least you used more than mor<tab> and get mordred instead of morganfainberg | 20:53 |
| vishy | I have to head to another meeting. I want to add something to the meeting next week discussing oslo. I’m concerned that there aren’t enough experts for some of the really important shared components like oslo.db and oslo.messaging. Wondering if there is some way we can help. | 20:54 |
| vishy | o/ | 20:54 |
| ttx | #action ttx to add oslo to next meeting | 20:54 |
| dhellmann | vishy: find companies willing to devote resources to it | 20:54 |
| ttx | ok, rushing through the last points on the agenda then | 20:54 |
| ttx | #topic Other governance changes | 20:54 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Other governance changes (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:54 | |
| ttx | * oslo.policy promotion (https://review.openstack.org/142813) | 20:54 |
| ttx | This one has dhellmann's +1, will approve tomorrow morning unless someone opposes it | 20:54 |
| ttx | * Add debtcollector library for oslo project/program (https://review.openstack.org/146224) | 20:55 |
| ttx | Same here | 20:55 |
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| ttx | Any comment on those two ? | 20:55 |
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| russellb | lgtm | 20:55 |
| ttx | #topic Open discussion | 20:56 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:56 | |
| ttx | I'd like to start the L naming poll before the end of the month | 20:56 |
| ttx | As some of you know, the marketing folks were a bit alarmed at the idea of fighting easy anti-OpenStack jokes if we picked the Lemming name | 20:56 |
| ttx | Now that they explained it to me, I can only agree with them that it would be a gift to all the haters | 20:56 |
| russellb | agreed | 20:56 |
| ttx | The trademark checks came back OK for Love, London, Liberty and Lizard, so I propose we run the poll with those four options | 20:56 |
| * dhellmann predicts London, in keeping with our "not the one you think" naming record | 20:57 | |
| sdague | heh | 20:57 |
| ttx | I would be fine with that | 20:57 |
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| russellb | i wouldn't hate any of them, so works for me | 20:57 |
| ttx | Love and Liberty are a bit too cheesy to my taste | 20:57 |
| ttx | or maybe it should be named Charlie and mess people up | 20:57 |
| * morganfainberg agrees with dhellmann | 20:58 | |
| ttx | Anything else, anyone ? | 20:58 |
| sdague | I'm good with that, though I thought there were some first nation names that were in the list as well which might be neat | 20:58 |
| devananda | London is the least bad, but I'm meh on all of those | 20:58 |
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| sarob | i put "libre" out there | 20:58 |
| ttx | sdague: was there ? | 20:58 |
| * jgriffith likes Lizard :) | 20:58 | |
| jeblair | i like lemming | 20:59 |
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| sarob | libre = free | 20:59 |
| jgriffith | :) | 20:59 |
| russellb | sarob: oh is that what that means? :-p | 20:59 |
| sarob | ugh | 20:59 |
| sarob | better than lizard lemming | 21:00 |
| * devananda wanders off to get coffee befoer the next meeting. | 21:00 | |
| sarob | ;) | 21:00 |
| ttx | sarob: there is no location named like that in Britsh Columbia though | 21:00 |
| ttx | anyway end of meeting | 21:00 |
| ttx | #endmeeting | 21:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 21:00 | |
| morganfainberg | devananda, in like 1 minute? | 21:00 |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Jan 13 21:00:20 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 21:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2015/tc.2015-01-13-20.01.html | 21:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2015/tc.2015-01-13-20.01.txt | 21:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2015/tc.2015-01-13-20.01.log.html | 21:00 |
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| ttx | courtesy PTL ping: dhellmann, morganfainberg, notmyname, eglynn, nikhil_k, thingee, asalkeld, david-lyle, mestery, SlickNik, SergeyLukjanov, mikal: around ? | 21:03 |
| asalkeld | o/ | 21:03 |
| thingee | o/ | 21:03 |
| david-lyle | o/ | 21:03 |
| eglynn_ | o/ | 21:03 |
| morganfainberg | o/ | 21:03 |
| dhellmann | o/ | 21:03 |
| jungleboyj | o/ | 21:03 |
| SergeyLukjanov | o/ | 21:03 |
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| notmyname | here (sort of) | 21:03 |
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| bknudson | lol (not laughing but both arms up) | 21:03 |
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| ttx | #startmeeting crossproject | 21:05 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Jan 13 21:05:22 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is ttx. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 21:05 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 21:05 |
| ttx | Our agenda for today: | 21:05 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: crossproject)" | 21:05 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'crossproject' | 21:05 |
| ttx | #link http://wiki.openstack.org/Meetings/CrossProjectMeeting | 21:05 |
| ttx | Should be a short one | 21:05 |
| ttx | #topic CLI Sorting Argument Guidelines | 21:05 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "CLI Sorting Argument Guidelines (Meeting topic: crossproject)" | 21:05 | |
| morganfainberg | yay short meetings | 21:05 |
| ttx | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/145544/ | 21:05 |
| ttx | This is a new openstack-spec to standardize CLI sorting arguments across projects | 21:05 |
| jungleboyj | morganfainberg: +2 | 21:05 |
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| jungleboyj | ttx +2 from me. | 21:06 |
| bknudson | this project has problems with consistency in general. | 21:06 |
| bknudson | the most consistent thing to do here would be to have every project be different | 21:06 |
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| annegentle_ | bknudson: noooooo..... | 21:07 |
| ttx | Affects Cinder, Glance, Ironic and Neutron apparently, but also future projects that would make use of a sort parameter there | 21:07 |
| jungleboyj | bknudson: -2 for synciality. ;-) | 21:07 |
| ttx | Not sure if Steven Kaufer is on IRC | 21:07 |
| ttx | But then that doesn't prevent us from discussing it here | 21:07 |
| jokke_ | o/ | 21:07 |
| jungleboyj | (sp) synicality | 21:07 |
| thingee | sounds fine to me. we already approved the spec for cinder, but of course, curious to see what other projects think | 21:07 |
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| ttx | thingee: ideally we would have alignment from affected projects | 21:08 |
| ttx | and then that would be a guideline for future such projects | 21:09 |
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| annegentle_ | ttx: so what was the way TC members are supposed to vote in cross-project specs? +1? | 21:09 |
| bknudson | one way to get alignment is to put the code in a library. | 21:09 |
| ttx | annegentle_: yes | 21:09 |
| annegentle_ | ttx: k thanks | 21:09 |
| ttx | same as anyone else | 21:09 |
| * devananda is back | 21:09 | |
| annegentle_ | bknudson: I think this type of spec can then inform the openstack CLI of the best practice | 21:09 |
| annegentle_ | bknudson: so with dtroyer on board I think we can look for that sort of future | 21:10 |
| annegentle_ | bknudson: unless I misunderstand your point | 21:10 |
| ttx | bknudson: not sure being in a library enforces alignment :) | 21:10 |
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| ttx | one can always ignore the lib. I'd prefer wide PTl approval on the openstack-spec, like for all openstack-specs | 21:10 |
| ttx | mestery, nikhil_k: around ? | 21:11 |
| ttx | if not, please review https://review.openstack.org/#/c/145544/ when you get a chance | 21:11 |
| ttx | Other comments on that spec ? | 21:11 |
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| ttx | I guess not... | 21:12 |
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| morganfainberg | from a keystone perspective i don't think we have much of anything to say. | 21:12 |
| asalkeld | looks reasonable | 21:12 |
| morganfainberg | because we're relying on openstack client at this point | 21:12 |
| bknudson | we've pretty much deprecated keystone cli. | 21:12 |
| ttx | please cast your vote and i'll put it on the TC agenda for fainl tallying of the votes in a future meeting | 21:13 |
| ttx | final* | 21:13 |
| morganfainberg | our CLI is mostly deprecated / frozen and wont see support for v3/much future development | 21:13 |
| devananda | looks reasonable to me, though I need to see what changes are needed in our current CLI/API | 21:13 |
| jungleboyj | ttx +2 | 21:13 |
| thingee | bknudson: is openstack client using this format for sort/dir? | 21:13 |
| ttx | devananda: cool | 21:13 |
| jungleboyj | thingee: Assume you will put your vote out there? | 21:13 |
| sdague | thingee: I believe currently it's just nova, because the conversation evolved out of novaclient patches | 21:14 |
| morganfainberg | thingee, ttx, so i think the osc folks should be involved in this as well, specifically | 21:14 |
| ttx | dtroyer: ^ | 21:14 |
| thingee | morganfainberg: +1 that's where I was going to go with that question :) | 21:14 |
| sdague | morganfainberg: dtroyer has already commented on the review | 21:14 |
| sdague | with a +1 | 21:14 |
| ttx | dtroyer: you might want to chime in on the review as well | 21:14 |
| morganfainberg | sdague, ah cool. | 21:14 |
| thingee | sdague: ah true | 21:14 |
| dtroyer | thingee, morganfainberg: we are…and OSc will be very close to this if not exactly there | 21:14 |
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| ttx | hah, he did already | 21:15 |
| ttx | OK, last comments before we move on ? | 21:15 |
| morganfainberg | then i'm a +1 on the spec :) will vote accordingly w/ comment | 21:15 |
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| ttx | #topic Proposed Vancouver Design Summit format | 21:15 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Proposed Vancouver Design Summit format (Meeting topic: crossproject)" | 21:15 | |
| ttx | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2015-January/054122.html | 21:15 |
| ttx | I posted proposed changes to the Design Summit format last week, if you have questions let me know | 21:16 |
| ttx | So far the reception seems to have been good -- so unless someone objects I'll have the events team work on a room layout that would allow this format | 21:16 |
| bknudson | I was wondering about cross-project sessions -- is that a fishbowl or a workroom? | 21:16 |
| thingee | ttx: good job. Glad that were addressing the issue of ops feeling like second class. | 21:16 |
| annegentle_ | ttx: have you done a walkthrough with nova/neutron and cross-project? | 21:16 |
| devananda | ttx: +1 overall | 21:16 |
| ttx | bknudson: fishbowl, although technically we could also have smaller workgroups there... | 21:16 |
| morganfainberg | ttx, i am a +1 on that - didn't reply to the list though. | 21:17 |
| bknudson | ok, thanks. | 21:17 |
| * nikhil_k joins in | 21:17 | |
| ttx | annegentle_: walkthrough? | 21:17 |
| ttx | One challenge we will probably have to solve is the scheduling. | 21:17 |
| annegentle_ | ttx: an imagining if you will | 21:17 |
| annegentle_ | ttx: yes, for scheduling and where the space runs out | 21:17 |
| jungleboyj | Proposal looked good as long as the Work Group sessions are in individual rooms, not shared. | 21:17 |
| ttx | annegentle_: I have a proposed room layout. We shouold have an awesome space in Vancouver | 21:17 |
| ttx | About scheduling, not sure we'll be able to rely on pre-allocated slots and small tweaks (like we use to do) to avoid conflicts this time | 21:18 |
| jokke_ | ttx: by quick look your proposal is great ... by the Paris experience, that's exactly what's needed! | 21:18 |
| devananda | ttx: +100 on clearly splitting fishbowl and workinggroup sessions | 21:18 |
| ttx | We might have to tag sessions with the necessary audience and then use a constraint solver to produce the final schedule for us | 21:18 |
| devananda | ttx: what will the timing / overlap be with the main conference? | 21:18 |
| annegentle_ | ttx: yeah I think the split is right but then the constraints haven't been revealed yet | 21:18 |
| ttx | Main conf runs Mon-Thu, we run Tue-Fri | 21:18 |
| annegentle_ | ttx: so it helps a bit to see constraints is all | 21:18 |
| ttx | friday will be all workinggroup | 21:19 |
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| morganfainberg | ttx, friday being working group will be great | 21:19 |
| morganfainberg | it worked very well at the last summit | 21:19 |
| ttx | and hopefully food will be worse so nobody will hang around just to eat. | 21:19 |
| morganfainberg | hahah | 21:19 |
| ttx | what do I say... Food can only be worse. | 21:19 |
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| jungleboyj | morganfainberg: +2 | 21:19 |
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| devananda | ttx: ok. so ops overlap tue-thu concerns me a bit. what do you think? | 21:19 |
| eglynn__ | should help with the lunch queues | 21:19 |
| asalkeld | ttx the changes seems ok to me | 21:19 |
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| devananda | ttx: not concerns-me in a way that we should change anything - i think this is a good structure | 21:20 |
| ttx | devananda: you mean ops summit running Tue-Fri adds more conflicts ? | 21:20 |
| morganfainberg | silly question, did we determine [a little off topic] if there was a 3rd level of participant that let people duck out after the main conf? i think we said a reason a lot of people hung around was because they felt like they needed to for the last day since it was expo or full-access | 21:21 |
| ttx | There is the option os running some ops sessions on Monday... the trick being, it would still feel like a different event outside the design sumit then | 21:21 |
| morganfainberg | and so they paid for the full access and stuck around + wifi was only in the design summit side the last day(s) | 21:21 |
| morganfainberg | ^^ that question might be something for a different meeting | 21:21 |
| morganfainberg | (mine that is) | 21:21 |
| bknudson | is it all in the convention centre? | 21:21 |
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| devananda | ttx: it may split operators time more, without giving them a clear "here is the ops day" indication | 21:22 |
| ttx | morganfainberg: not sure... I think Paris was special because people just stayed over the weekend | 21:22 |
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| ttx | so they were around on Friday when usually they fly back | 21:22 |
| morganfainberg | ttx, fair enough that too. cause well Paris. | 21:22 |
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| ttx | bknudson: yes | 21:22 |
| ttx | devananda: what we do with Monday is still up in the air | 21:23 |
| devananda | ttx: ah. having it all in the same building will help a lot, and actually may obviate my concern about the overlap | 21:23 |
| morganfainberg | devananda, ++ | 21:23 |
| ttx | depends a lot on how much room we'll actually have | 21:23 |
| jokke_ | devananda: at least I felt that the ops separation was awful ... we saw really small cross participation and it took at least me a full missed day to even find it | 21:23 |
| ttx | fifieldt__ said he would rather have sessions on Monday too | 21:23 |
| ttx | (ops sessions) | 21:23 |
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| ttx | On another note, I'll probably have to ask PTLs for their ideal allocation mix /before/ the new PTL election | 21:24 |
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| ttx | so the old PTl would pick the mix and the new PTL would use it | 21:25 |
| ttx | I don't see much options to avoid that, we'll need to work on allocation way before the election | 21:25 |
| eglynn | the old PTL is likely to get some team consensus on the preferred mix | 21:25 |
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| eglynn | ... i.e. not just pick it unilaterally I'd guess | 21:25 |
| ttx | yes, and a lot of old = new | 21:25 |
| devananda | ttx: seems fine to me | 21:25 |
| ttx | just a detail I wanted to mention | 21:25 |
| eglynn | yeap, doesn't seem like a huge issue | 21:26 |
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| ttx | OK, last questions / comments on that , | 21:26 |
| ttx | ? | 21:26 |
| asalkeld | all good | 21:26 |
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| ttx | #topic Open discussion & announcements | 21:26 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion & announcements (Meeting topic: crossproject)" | 21:26 | |
| thingee | ttx: o/ | 21:26 |
| ttx | thingee: go for it | 21:27 |
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| thingee | For the juno release, there have been deprecation warning going out from Cinder on v1 being removed by Kilo. | 21:27 |
| thingee | Some have expressed to me one release is not enough notice. | 21:27 |
| thingee | regardless of v2 being around since G. Comments? | 21:28 |
| bknudson | is it causing problems to keep it there? | 21:28 |
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| ttx | agree with bknudson, it's more a tradeoff than a hard rule. One release is the minimum | 21:28 |
| eglynn | isn't two full cycles the norm for the deprecation path on major API versions? | 21:28 |
| morganfainberg | eglynn, typically | 21:28 |
| thingee | bknudson: that's a good point. It has been little technical debt the past two releases. | 21:29 |
| eglynn | but yeah, not an iron law or anything | 21:29 |
| ttx | thingee: if you can afford to keep it for two in deprecation, by all means, please do :) | 21:29 |
| jungleboyj | thingee: Just the occasional reminder to not add function there. | 21:29 |
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| thingee | mostly there is an issue that exists with two service types being around for volume and volumev2. | 21:30 |
| morganfainberg | thingee, i recommend making people happy and keep it for 2 | 21:30 |
| thingee | Ideally I would like volume to point to x.x.x.x:8776 instead of a particular version endpoint, and just do discovery. | 21:30 |
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| jungleboyj | thingee: Can't we do discovery and leave v1 around still? | 21:30 |
| thingee | jungleboyj: yes | 21:30 |
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| thingee | ok that's all for me. I guess expect me going around to everyone using cinder client to rid volumev2. | 21:31 |
| thingee | ttx: thanks | 21:31 |
| morganfainberg | jungleboy, but at a certain point you want to drop that stuff from the codebase is all | 21:31 |
| asalkeld | i don't think heat is on to cinder v2 yeat | 21:31 |
| thingee | getting rid in L-1 that is | 21:31 |
| thingee | asalkeld: it is | 21:31 |
| ttx | We had 1:1 syncs today, where I tried to collect all project-specific deadlines... | 21:31 |
| ttx | Logs at: | 21:31 |
| ttx | #link http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/ptl_sync/2015/ptl_sync.2015-01-13-08.59.html | 21:31 |
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| asalkeld | ok, thought there was a bp for it | 21:31 |
| ttx | We'll skip 1:1s next week. | 21:31 |
| jungleboyj | morganfainberg: +2 ... Was just making sure we could hold on to it a little longer and still move forward. | 21:31 |
| morganfainberg | ttx, confirmed 2-wk prior to k3 code-feature-freeze for keystone. | 21:32 |
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| ttx | wow, that's what rehubbing means | 21:32 |
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| morganfainberg | ttx, erm code-feature-proposal | 21:32 |
| morganfainberg | wow. | 21:32 |
| morganfainberg | nice netsplit | 21:32 |
| ttx | I guess that means the meeting is over | 21:32 |
| devananda | heh | 21:32 |
| morganfainberg | hey and we didn't lose the openstack bot | 21:32 |
| ttx | I think we still have the meetbot on our side | 21:32 |
| morganfainberg | ttx, ++ | 21:32 |
| ttx | BTW, if anyone is interested in chairing the cross-project meeting, let me know. I'm fine sharing chairing :) | 21:32 |
| morganfainberg | ttx, ^^ if you didn't see the comment about code freeze for keystone | 21:33 |
| ttx | I did see it fly | 21:33 |
| morganfainberg | ttx, 2wks prior to k3 as we discussed | 21:33 |
| morganfainberg | :) | 21:33 |
| morganfainberg | cool | 21:33 |
| ttx | Anything else, anyone ? | 21:33 |
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| morganfainberg | (anyone that is left) | 21:34 |
| morganfainberg | aaaaannnd round 2 | 21:34 |
| ttx | we still win | 21:34 |
| morganfainberg | hah! | 21:34 |
| dhellmann | woo | 21:34 |
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| devananda | \o/ | 21:34 |
| ttx | tempted to cotinue to play | 21:34 |
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| asalkeld | thingee, gone | 21:34 |
| ttx | but then if I can't close the meeting we may have an issue | 21:34 |
| morganfainberg | ttx, let it ride! one more time.... it'll be all good. | 21:34 |
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| ttx | woosh | 21:34 |
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| jokke_ | yeah ... I think we split out as that's around 300 on the other side | 21:35 |
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| samueldmq | lol | 21:35 |
| asalkeld | thingee: yeah heat is ok: https://github.com/openstack/heat/blob/master/heat/engine/clients/os/cinder.py#L38-L46 | 21:35 |
| ttx | any last comment before we close the meeting ? | 21:35 |
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| ttx | or before we get rehubbed | 21:35 |
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| ttx | I'll take that as a "no" | 21:36 |
| ttx | #endmeeting | 21:36 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 21:36 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Jan 13 21:36:10 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 21:36 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/crossproject/2015/crossproject.2015-01-13-21.05.html | 21:36 |
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| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/crossproject/2015/crossproject.2015-01-13-21.05.txt | 21:36 |
| jungleboyj | Thanks! | 21:36 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/crossproject/2015/crossproject.2015-01-13-21.05.log.html | 21:36 |
| ttx | Thanks everyone! | 21:36 |
| jokke_ | oh ... freenode is rehubbing for maintenance ... was announced at :22 | 21:36 |
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| jokke_ | thnx | 21:36 |
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