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| janders | g'day g'day | 10:59 |
|---|---|---|
| oneswig | ahoy | 10:59 |
| oneswig | #startmeeting scientific-sig | 10:59 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Oct 10 10:59:22 2018 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is oneswig. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 10:59 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 10:59 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: scientific-sig)" | 10:59 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'scientific_sig' | 10:59 |
| verdurin | Afternoon. | 10:59 |
| oneswig | just about! | 10:59 |
| oneswig | #link Agenda for today https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Scientific_SIG#IRC_Meeting_October_10th_2018 | 10:59 |
| oneswig | How are things? | 11:00 |
| martial_ | Hi Stig and all | 11:00 |
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| janders | we just entered daylight savings here, b1airo: is it same on your side of the Tasman? | 11:00 |
| priteau | Hi everyone | 11:00 |
| oneswig | I think b1airo's off sick today, he mentioned earlier he'd caught a bug from the kids | 11:01 |
| oneswig | hi priteau | 11:01 |
| oneswig | hi martial_ | 11:01 |
| oneswig | #chair martial_ | 11:01 |
| openstack | Current chairs: martial_ oneswig | 11:01 |
| janders | that's one exciting agenda! :) | 11:01 |
| oneswig | It's somewhat bring-and-share | 11:01 |
| janders | re b1airo: :( | 11:01 |
| verdurin | Hello all | 11:01 |
| oneswig | At this end, we finally got our BeeGFS role blogged | 11:02 |
| oneswig | #link BeeGFS Ansible role https://www.stackhpc.com/ansible-role-beegfs.html | 11:02 |
| oneswig | The interest in parallel filesystems last week in the US time zone meeting largely prompted that. | 11:03 |
| janders | oneswig: supercool! | 11:03 |
| oneswig | janders: share and enjoy :-) | 11:03 |
| oneswig | Anyone from Sanger here today? | 11:03 |
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| janders | I have to admit I haven;'t written a line of code for the last three weeks due to a ton of planning activities, however I was just trying to impose software-defined high-performance storage agenda item on our storage team :) | 11:04 |
| janders | I think I will send them the link and try again :) | 11:04 |
| oneswig | happy to help (hopefully) | 11:04 |
| janders | for sure | 11:04 |
| janders | one can deploy BeeGFS via Bright Cluster Manager... | 11:05 |
| janders | ...or with ansible like you guys (and all the cool kids) do! | 11:05 |
| oneswig | Bright's pretty good at packaging stuff like that | 11:05 |
| janders | :) | 11:05 |
| martial_ | Thanks for the writeup Stig | 11:05 |
| oneswig | (but we do indeed like to do Ansible) | 11:05 |
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| janders | speaking of Bright - would integrating Bright and bare-metal OpenStack would be of any interest to you guys? | 11:06 |
| oneswig | I had been hoping we could hear from the Sanger team for an update on their Lustre work https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1kGRzcdVQX95abei1bDVoRzxyC02i89_m5_sOfp8Aq6o/edit#slide=id.p3 | 11:06 |
| oneswig | I know some people at Bright but don't have direct use of the product. | 11:07 |
| janders | I've been asked this question repeatedly over the last few weeks, thinking of reaching out to Bright to have a chat. If it's not only CSIRO asking, it might be easier to get some traction.. | 11:07 |
| oneswig | I'm sure others do though? | 11:07 |
| janders | we're a big Bright shop on the pure-HPC side (and some of our collaborating organisations are, too) | 11:08 |
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| verdurin | While I know of some commercial Bright users, I can't think of many academic sites who use it in the UK | 11:08 |
| oneswig | My understanding of the bright model is that they work with Bright driving OpenStack. Are you thinking of a reversed situation in which OpenStack drives Bright (like an Ironic driver, for example)? | 11:10 |
| janders | oneswig: spot on | 11:10 |
| janders | "converting systems into applications" | 11:10 |
| janders | Bright does HPC allright, but I don't see it doing other things that well | 11:10 |
| janders | In a bare-metal cloud reality, it seems to be better suited to be a cloud app than a cloud engine | 11:11 |
| oneswig | I've previously come across something along similar lines with an Ironic XCAT driver. I don't think it ever got the momentum behind it thought to keep it going | 11:11 |
| janders | however if it could talk to Nova/Ironic instead of trying to talk to ipmi interfaces on the blades, this could be very different | 11:11 |
| janders | I don't think additional Ironic drivers are sustainable | 11:12 |
| janders | I think things like xcat or Bright should have a mode where they hit OpenStack APIs for resources | 11:12 |
| janders | and give up on bare-metal management entirely | 11:12 |
| janders | but - this might be a good topic for a chat in the SIG in Berlin - I don't want to hijack too much of this meeting for this as there are more interesting things on the agenda :) | 11:13 |
| verdurin | janders: interesting. Would indeed be good to discuss in Berlin. | 11:13 |
| oneswig | Let's do that. I hope some of the Bright team will come along and you can tell them direct! | 11:13 |
| janders | I will try to give them notice | 11:13 |
| janders | and might take this opportunity to invite them along | 11:14 |
| janders | Amsterdam - Berlin should be a pretty quick bullet train ride I imagine | 11:14 |
| oneswig | +1 to that, be great to have them engaged | 11:14 |
| janders | (the OpenStack - Bright guys are in AMS for sure) | 11:14 |
| janders | okay, adding this to my TODO | 11:14 |
| oneswig | I've not been driving the meetbot | 11:15 |
| oneswig | #topic parallel filesystems in OpenStack | 11:15 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "parallel filesystems in OpenStack (Meeting topic: scientific-sig)" | 11:15 | |
| oneswig | back on track now :-) | 11:15 |
| janders | sorry.. :) | 11:15 |
| oneswig | So we've been looking at BeeGFS recently at this end in a couple of projects | 11:16 |
| janders | this is super interesting | 11:16 |
| oneswig | In the back of my mind, I'd like to gather some updates for the SIG book (https://www.openstack.org/assets/science/CrossroadofCloudandHPC.pdf) | 11:16 |
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| martial_ | that is a good idea indeed | 11:17 |
| oneswig | and to do a more decent job on that, the coverage of what's used out there would be great. | 11:17 |
| janders | is there "native" OpenStack-BeeGFS integration, or would you mount BeeGFS where OpenStack is typically looking for storage (/var/lib/{glance, cinder,nova}/images etc..) | 11:17 |
| oneswig | martial_: what does DMC do for filesystem access? | 11:17 |
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| oneswig | janders: I'd advise against the latter, it'll be a huge surprise if more than one controller mounts the same share and assumes it is local and has exclusive access... | 11:18 |
| janders | oops | 11:19 |
| janders | good point | 11:19 |
| oneswig | To date everything we've done is around provisioning filesystems for instances not the infrastructure. | 11:19 |
| oneswig | I know GPFS can do the latter and there was abandoned work by DDN on doing the same for Lustre | 11:20 |
| janders | are you using RDMA as a transport? | 11:20 |
| oneswig | oh yes | 11:20 |
| janders | (for BeeGFS in instances) | 11:20 |
| janders | I thought so :) | 11:20 |
| martial_ | Ceph so far with NFS for host access, which is why I was so interested in your about BeeGFS to evaluate | 11:20 |
| martial_ | ("in your post") | 11:20 |
| oneswig | BeeGFS is refreshingly straightforward at getting RDMA working | 11:20 |
| janders | do you run it through manila, or do you just present the neutron network that BeeGFS resides in to clients? | 11:20 |
| janders | oneswig: +1 | 11:21 |
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| verdurin | oneswig: BeeGFS just providing ephemeral storage in this case? | 11:21 |
| oneswig | janders: OpenStack's pretty much out of the equation. Usually we create instances on a network, and then use Ansible to make some into servers and others into clients (or all of them into both) | 11:21 |
| oneswig | verdurin: It's not long-lived storage, in the case we were most recently looking at. | 11:22 |
| janders | Pretty much KISS principle. Very good approach. | 11:22 |
| oneswig | I mean there are many other cases where what's needed is attaching to an existing production filesystem | 11:22 |
| janders | how do you handle root accounts in the cloud context? | 11:22 |
| janders | take root off users? use it for clients managed by your team? | 11:23 |
| oneswig | In the most recent work, the instances are managed (ie users don't get root). Elsewhere, I've seen a model of filesystem-per-project to ensure users can only destroy their own work | 11:23 |
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| janders | In the latter case, is it BeeGFS-OND? | 11:24 |
| oneswig | I think BeeGFS is somewhat behind the authentication options of its rivals (but I may be corrected on that) | 11:24 |
| oneswig | janders: not in that case. The filesystem is a "production filesystem" created and managed by site admins. I mean it could be BeeOND but I don't think it is | 11:25 |
| janders | oneswig: unfortunately I have to agree. Vendors offering us BeeGFS kit all claimed Kerberos (or any similar functionality) is out of the picture at this point in time | 11:25 |
| janders | which sucks big time | 11:26 |
| janders | either Kerberised BeeGFS (with no OpenStack integration) | 11:26 |
| janders | or manila-driven BeeGFS-OND | 11:26 |
| janders | would be nirvana! :) | 11:26 |
| oneswig | Are there other filesystem solutions in use out there? | 11:26 |
| janders | I actually used GPFS. Not really in anger but in POCs. No issues, "just worked". | 11:27 |
| janders | however... | 11:27 |
| janders | this was Mitaka | 11:27 |
| verdurin | Owing to our increasing restricted data work, we are increasingly looking at Lustre, having historically used GPFS. | 11:27 |
| janders | I'm looking at it again now for Queens and see the vendors being slack to keep up with the OpenStack release cycle | 11:27 |
| oneswig | verdurin: will you be retracing the Sanger work on that? | 11:27 |
| janders | I think Mitaka plugins would work on Queens, but it's a bit of a risk to do it this way | 11:28 |
| verdurin | oneswig: similar, yes. Most of that is upstream now, so it's just a configuration choice. | 11:28 |
| martial_ | (going to be AFK for the next few minutes -- school bus) | 11:28 |
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| janders | is long-range storage of any interest to you guys? | 11:28 |
| verdurin | Hoping to discuss it in more detail with DDN on Monday. | 11:29 |
| oneswig | janders: long range? | 11:29 |
| janders | (as in - mounting a filesystems tens of miliseconds, perhaps a hundred miliseconds away) | 11:29 |
| oneswig | ah. Why yes, possibly. | 11:29 |
| oneswig | In a different theme. | 11:29 |
| oneswig | But I'd like to evaluate Ceph for that. I'm interested in the idea that a CephFS filesystem can have different directories served from different crush rulesets. | 11:30 |
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| janders | OK. We've got an interesting PoC going. Can't talk details yet, but hopefully it will be finished by Berlin so we can have a chat if you're interested. (it's not Ceph) | 11:30 |
| oneswig | So you could have /canberra and /bristol - one's local to me, but I can see contents (slowly) of the other | 11:30 |
| janders | Are you guys doing any large-ish scale data transfer with Pawsey Supercomputing Centre, Western Australia? | 11:31 |
| janders | (the fact that both you and them work on SKA made me wonder) | 11:31 |
| oneswig | janders: not that I'm aware of. The SKA's the obvious connection there. I am sure people do do that kind of stuff with Pawsey but it's a massive project and that's not in our wheelhouse | 11:32 |
| janders | The /canberra and /bristol approach is pretty close to what we're testing | 11:32 |
| oneswig | janders: Your new project - will that be shareable when it's ready to be revealed? | 11:32 |
| janders | yes, I believe so | 11:32 |
| martial_ | janders: and presented as a lighting talk? | 11:33 |
| janders | it's all NDA for now but I would imagine the vendor would be very keen to have more prospective customers :) | 11:33 |
| oneswig | d | 11:33 |
| oneswig | (I mean...) is it proprietary? | 11:33 |
| janders | with lightning talk - possibly - just unsure if it would be Berlin or Denver timeframe :) | 11:33 |
| janders | unfortunately yes, it is (but it is so cool I can tolerate it :) | 11:34 |
| oneswig | Sounds very cool. | 11:34 |
| janders | however - if there are still lightning talk slots available in Berlin I would be very keen to talk about ephemeral hypervisors running on Ironic | 11:34 |
| martial_ | Stig: are we doing the usual lighting talk session ? | 11:35 |
| janders | I've got that working so no depedency on vendor finishing work | 11:35 |
| oneswig | I think martial_ was thinking of the SIG lightning talks. These are typically settled on the day (or perhaps the week before) | 11:35 |
| martial_ | Same here | 11:36 |
| janders | I was thinking a SIG lightning talk, too | 11:36 |
| oneswig | martial_: We've asked for the same format, and IIRC Wednesday morning. I haven't seen our SIG sessions in the schedule yet. | 11:36 |
| janders | ah, there's SIG-SIG-lightningtalk and Berlin-SIG-lightningtalk | 11:36 |
| janders | :) | 11:37 |
| oneswig | eh? | 11:37 |
| janders | sometimes people do presentations in the #openstack-meeting IRC | 11:38 |
| janders | plus - in the SIG meetup at Summits there's a lightning talk part | 11:38 |
| oneswig | Ah, got it. This would be in person, in Berlin - the latter | 11:38 |
| janders | (and on top of all that there's the "official" Summit lightning talks) | 11:38 |
| martial_ | Janders: you can have both of course | 11:38 |
| janders | I'd be happy to do both and I think it would actually make sense due to SC and OS Berlin clash | 11:39 |
| oneswig | martial_: you're heading to SC, correct? | 11:39 |
| martial_ | Blair and I are | 11:39 |
| oneswig | #topic SIG meetups | 11:39 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "SIG meetups (Meeting topic: scientific-sig)" | 11:39 | |
| oneswig | sorry just trying to keep the meetbot on track again... | 11:40 |
| oneswig | Ah yes, thought so. Really unfortunate timing. | 11:40 |
| martial_ | #link https://sc18.supercomputing.org/presentation/?id=bof113&sess=sess374 | 11:41 |
| martial_ | So we have a session at SC18 | 11:41 |
| oneswig | If you get the chance while you're there, can you find out if anything's afoot on Kubernetes and MPI (as discussed last week). I think it's a favourite topic for Christian Kniep. I'd love to hear if there was a working, scalable implementation | 11:42 |
| oneswig | (and one that wasn't warty as...) | 11:42 |
| martial_ | Moving this one a little beyond Openstack alone for this one | 11:42 |
| martial_ | But with our usual crowd | 11:42 |
| martial_ | I am sure Christian will be happy to discuss things indeed | 11:43 |
| oneswig | Not come across Bob or Jay before - what's their connection? | 11:43 |
| martial_ | Bob Killen is a CNCF ambassador for K8s | 11:44 |
| janders | this might seem unrelated, but it really isn't: | 11:44 |
| janders | how long do you guys think the IB vs high-speed Ethernet division will last? | 11:44 |
| martial_ | Jay has a similar role at Suse | 11:44 |
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| oneswig | martial_: get that topic on the agenda then, we need to know! | 11:45 |
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| oneswig | janders: good question. For as long as IB makes boat loads of cash for Mellanox I guess? | 11:45 |
| janders | do you think we might end up with "EB" at around 400Gbit/s mark? | 11:45 |
| oneswig | (deferring the question) | 11:46 |
| martial_ | I am starting that agenda soon so "yes" | 11:46 |
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| janders | the goss is that while IB is definitely profitable 100GE & co are making the most $$$ | 11:46 |
| janders | I'm mentioning this cause this might do interesting things to MPI support on technologies as k8s | 11:47 |
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| oneswig | janders: The tricky piece is that IB is a network in which addressing is managed using interval routes, whereas Ethernet's plug-and-play requires MAC lookups, which costs time and resource. Inherently, it has a latency disadvantage, but is so much easier to use. | 11:47 |
| oneswig | janders: it's probably easier to do MPI over IB with Kubernetes, because K8S will know nothing about it and not try to get in the way | 11:48 |
| oneswig | The major issues are on the placement of nodes and creation of the communicator topology (from my limited understand) | 11:49 |
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| martial_ | yes I was going to wonder about affinity | 11:49 |
| oneswig | martial_: you're up against this panel https://sc18.supercomputing.org/presentation/?id=pan109&sess=sess305 - some speaker firepower there :) | 11:50 |
| martial_ | they are a panel we are a BoF but yes it is a busy program (again) | 11:51 |
| martial_ | we have a session on cloud federation also ... with other similar ones happening there too | 11:51 |
| martial_ | at least they did not ask us to merge this year | 11:52 |
| oneswig | martial_: got a link? | 11:52 |
| oneswig | For those that are heading to Berlin, I was wondering if an evening SIG beer might be good? | 11:52 |
| martial_ | and I want to keep it "short" presentation wise | 11:52 |
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| oneswig | Does anyone know what nights are busy at the Berlin summit so we can fit it in? | 11:52 |
| martial_ | #link https://sc18.supercomputing.org/presentation/?id=pan106&sess=sess294 | 11:52 |
| martial_ | Stig: that is that (for now) for SC18 :) | 11:53 |
| oneswig | Thanks martial_ - good luck with setting the questions - make 'em sweat :-) | 11:53 |
| oneswig | on Berlin: I haven't checked when the big vendor events are. | 11:53 |
| janders | quickly coming back to the filesystems thread | 11:54 |
| oneswig | (I'll come back next time with a suggestion) | 11:54 |
| janders | have you used parallel filesystems running in instances much? | 11:54 |
| oneswig | In bare metal, yes. | 11:55 |
| oneswig | Otherwise no. | 11:55 |
| janders | I used to run "hyperconverged" like this, with a dual-core BeeGFS VM and 14 core compute VM on each compute node | 11:55 |
| janders | with SRIOV/IB it was a killer back in the day | 11:55 |
| oneswig | janders: interesting. How was the VM overhead for the MDS and OSS? | 11:55 |
| janders | no one complained | 11:56 |
| janders | however that was a very HPC heavy system | 11:56 |
| janders | with CPU-passthru, no overcommit, node-local SSD/NVMe and fair bit of RAM | 11:56 |
| janders | we were maxing out SSDs on the BeeGFSes and maxing out FDR on the consumers | 11:57 |
| oneswig | Sounds like a machine that would do it justice | 11:57 |
| oneswig | How were you automating it? | 11:57 |
| janders | it was a cool little tool (and if I were doing it today I would use your ansible role instead of dodgy shell scripts, but this project was around 2015) | 11:57 |
| janders | bash :( | 11:58 |
| janders | quick and dirty, worked well though | 11:58 |
| janders | I think we baked-in BeeGFS rpms in the images to make it "quicker" | 11:58 |
| oneswig | Sometimes, quick and dirty is all that's required :-) | 11:58 |
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| oneswig | We are nearly out of time. | 11:58 |
| oneswig | #topic AOB | 11:58 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "AOB (Meeting topic: scientific-sig)" | 11:58 | |
| oneswig | AOB? | 11:58 |
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| oneswig | Plenty covered in the course of discussion I guess | 11:59 |
| martial_ | not much here, thanks for a little deeper dive into BeeGFS | 11:59 |
| martial_ | janders: | 11:59 |
| janders | would there be value in me talking about nova-compute on Ironic here? | 11:59 |
| janders | If so, what would be a good date? | 11:59 |
| martial_ | look forward to your update | 11:59 |
| martial_ | please do | 11:59 |
| oneswig | janders: you pick, don't think we have anything booked in currentkly | 11:59 |
| janders | 24 Oct? | 12:00 |
| janders | that will give me some time to prepare | 12:00 |
| oneswig | LGTM | 12:00 |
| oneswig | OK we are at the hour, better close the meeting | 12:00 |
| oneswig | Thanks all | 12:00 |
| oneswig | #endmeeting | 12:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/" | 12:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Oct 10 12:00:24 2018 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 12:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/scientific_sig/2018/scientific_sig.2018-10-10-10.59.html | 12:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/scientific_sig/2018/scientific_sig.2018-10-10-10.59.txt | 12:00 |
| martial_ | "thumbs up" emoji :) | 12:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/scientific_sig/2018/scientific_sig.2018-10-10-10.59.log.html | 12:00 |
| verdurin | Thanks and bye. | 12:00 |
| oneswig | Until next time | 12:00 |
| janders | thanks, see you all | 12:01 |
| oneswig | janders: you're already pencilled in on the wiki :-) https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Scientific_SIG#IRC_Meeting_October_24th_2018 | 12:02 |
| oneswig | ok gotta go | 12:02 |
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| jungleboyj | #startmeeting Cinder | 16:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Oct 10 16:00:26 2018 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is jungleboyj. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 16:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 16:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: Cinder)" | 16:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'cinder' | 16:00 |
| whoami-rajat | Hi | 16:00 |
| smcginnis | o/ | 16:00 |
| jungleboyj | @! | 16:00 |
| _pewp_ | jungleboyj |。･ω･|ﾉ | 16:00 |
| xyang | hi | 16:00 |
| yikun | o/ | 16:00 |
| LiangFang | hi | 16:01 |
| e0ne | hi | 16:01 |
| ganso | hello | 16:01 |
| walshh_ | hi | 16:01 |
| jungleboyj | Give people a minute to join up. | 16:01 |
| tpsilva | hello | 16:01 |
| rosmaita | o/ | 16:01 |
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| jungleboyj | Hope no one is in Florida. | 16:02 |
| jungleboyj | Ok. Lets get started. | 16:03 |
| tbarron | hi | 16:03 |
| jungleboyj | #topic announcements | 16:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "announcements (Meeting topic: Cinder)" | 16:03 | |
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| jungleboyj | I didn't get any concerns with adding Gorka as a stable core. So, we will be doing that. | 16:03 |
| jungleboyj | Thank you to all of you that had input. | 16:04 |
| e0ne | geguileo_PTO: my congratulations! | 16:04 |
| LiangFang | congratulation! | 16:04 |
| jungleboyj | geguileo_PTO: Thank you for continuing to help out! | 16:04 |
| enriquetaso | Congratulations! | 16:04 |
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| jungleboyj | enriquetaso: Hey! Thanks for joining! | 16:05 |
| enriquetaso | Hi jungleboyj ! how are u? | 16:05 |
| jungleboyj | Also, just a friendly reminder to put any topics you have for the mid-cycle into the etherpad. | 16:05 |
| jungleboyj | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/cinder-stein-mid-cycle-planning | 16:06 |
| jungleboyj | enriquetaso: Good. Thank you. | 16:06 |
| smcginnis | Looking ahead, walshh_'s topic might be a good one fore midcycle. | 16:06 |
| LiangFang | yes, vmware support this | 16:07 |
| jungleboyj | smcginnis: ++ | 16:07 |
| jungleboyj | I have been putting topics in there as well. | 16:07 |
| jungleboyj | Some other topics. | 16:08 |
| jungleboyj | People should have seen that I did os-brick releases for the current and stable releases. | 16:08 |
| jungleboyj | I also did a python-cinderclient release. | 16:09 |
| jungleboyj | Hopefully no one has seen issues there. | 16:10 |
| smcginnis | Nothing so far. | 16:10 |
| jungleboyj | Good. | 16:10 |
| jungleboyj | Ok. I think that was all I had for announcements. | 16:11 |
| jungleboyj | #topic Add volume re-image API | 16:11 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Add volume re-image API (Meeting topic: Cinder)" | 16:11 | |
| jungleboyj | yikun: | 16:12 |
| yikun | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/605317/ | 16:12 |
| yikun | ^^ yes, it’s the re-image spec, now ready for review, and you could take a look when you have time. | 16:12 |
| yikun | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/606346/ | 16:12 |
| yikun | Also, there is a POC implementation on ^, now the core implementation is ok. you could also take a look if you are interested. | 16:12 |
| jungleboyj | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/605317/ | 16:12 |
| jungleboyj | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/606346/ | 16:12 |
| jungleboyj | That is great that we have PoC together already. | 16:14 |
| yikun | :), and also have some discussion on "force" parameter | 16:14 |
| yikun | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2018-October/135509.html | 16:14 |
| jungleboyj | yikun: Yes. I feel like we have landed on the answer there unless there were more concerns raised since? | 16:15 |
| yikun | yes, maybe "ignore_attached" is the answer if don't have other disagreement. :) | 16:16 |
| enriquetaso | . | 16:16 |
| jungleboyj | yikun: Trying to catch up here. | 16:16 |
| yikun | anyway, if you have any question or suggestion, feel free to leave the comments in spec. : ), thanks | 16:18 |
| jungleboyj | yikun: Where did the ignore_attached come from? | 16:18 |
| jungleboyj | I didn't see that on the mailing list. | 16:18 |
| yikun | here, https://review.openstack.org/#/c/605317/6/specs/stein/add-volume-re-image-api.rst@52 | 16:18 |
| yikun | suggestion from mriedem. | 16:18 |
| jungleboyj | yikun: Ah, ok. That makes more sense. | 16:19 |
| jungleboyj | Ok, I need to read through that spec. | 16:19 |
| smcginnis | Personally I preferred "force", but I can see where the concern on that name comes from. | 16:19 |
| yikun | OK, thanks. :) | 16:19 |
| jungleboyj | So, team, please look at the patch and spec and make comments. | 16:19 |
| jungleboyj | #action Cinder Team to review the Spec and Patch. | 16:19 |
| jungleboyj | Think we can move to the next topic yikun ? | 16:20 |
| yikun | yep, sure~ | 16:20 |
| jungleboyj | Ok. Good. | 16:20 |
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| jungleboyj | #topic Support for Revert to any Snapshot | 16:21 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Support for Revert to any Snapshot (Meeting topic: Cinder)" | 16:21 | |
| jungleboyj | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/cinder/+spec/support-revert-to-any-snapshot | 16:21 |
| jungleboyj | walshh_: | 16:21 |
| jungleboyj | All yours. | 16:22 |
| walshh_ | just wondering if this is going to be implemented in the future? | 16:22 |
| e0ne | how many backends except ceph support this feature? | 16:22 |
| walshh_ | I can only speak for VMAX, it does support it | 16:23 |
| smcginnis | I think a lot support it, but we still have the concern from Barcelona that prompted the current design that some backends "lose" later snapshots once they've gone to earlier ones. | 16:23 |
| jungleboyj | Anyone else know of backends that support it? | 16:23 |
| e0ne | IMO, it could be useful if more backends supports this. I don't like features only for 2-3 backends | 16:24 |
| smcginnis | I don't think the issue was support for doing it, it was the very high potential for data loss. | 16:24 |
| e0ne | smcginnis: good poit | 16:24 |
| e0ne | *point | 16:24 |
| jungleboyj | smcginnis: I am remembering that now. | 16:25 |
| jungleboyj | We would have to have a safe way to implement this for everyone. | 16:25 |
| e0ne | +1 | 16:25 |
| jungleboyj | walshh_: Is this something that your team would potentially implement? | 16:26 |
| walshh_ | we can certainly look into it, wouldnt mind the challenge | 16:26 |
| jungleboyj | This one would definitely require a spec. | 16:27 |
| jungleboyj | It would be one of those functions that drivers would have to opt-in for to ensure that they can verify that data loss won't happen. | 16:27 |
| smcginnis | Do we really want to introduce something like that? | 16:28 |
| walshh_ | is the data loss risk not also there for revert to last snapshot? | 16:28 |
| jungleboyj | smcginnis: Not really. We have kind of stabilized things away from those types of features. | 16:29 |
| smcginnis | No, the data loss risk is in losing snapshots, not in the delta of data between now and when the snapshot was taken. | 16:29 |
| smcginnis | And how Cinder can know if that's the case and accurately reflect that in our database. | 16:29 |
| walshh_ | ok, thanks | 16:30 |
| smcginnis | "Let's go back 5 snaps. Oops, that was too far, let's go 4. Where'd my snap go?" - that kinda thing. | 16:30 |
| jungleboyj | Is that a limitation in Cinder or in the way that the backends handle the snaps? | 16:31 |
| smcginnis | The backends. | 16:31 |
| jungleboyj | Ok. That is concerning. | 16:32 |
| smcginnis | I think someone had a specific example of a backend that behaves that way at the design summit, but I don't recall which it was. | 16:32 |
| smcginnis | We can try to get input if that is still the case. Especially since there are now less backends than before. | 16:33 |
| jungleboyj | So, two approaches. We can say 'No'. Or we can make people aware that there has been a request here and then talk about it at the Mid-Cycle. | 16:33 |
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| jungleboyj | smcginnis: ++ | 16:33 |
| jungleboyj | So that would be a vote for option two. | 16:34 |
| jungleboyj | Any other votes? | 16:34 |
| walshh_ | +1 | 16:35 |
| jungleboyj | e0ne: ? | 16:35 |
| rosmaita | midcycle option sounds good to me | 16:35 |
| jungleboyj | walshh_: Your team can join remotely for the mid-cycle? | 16:35 |
| jungleboyj | We will be a little closer to your timezone. | 16:35 |
| walshh_ | yes, we hope to | 16:36 |
| jungleboyj | Ok. Lets do that. | 16:36 |
| e0ne | It would be good to have more feedback from driver maintainers. | 16:36 |
| jungleboyj | e0ne: Agreed. | 16:36 |
| jungleboyj | So, walshh_ can you add this to the etherpad for the mid-cycle and also send a note about it to the mailing list? | 16:37 |
| walshh_ | sure | 16:37 |
| jungleboyj | walshh_: Great. | 16:38 |
| jungleboyj | #action walshh_ to add topic of reverting to any snapshot to mid-cycle etherpad. | 16:38 |
| jungleboyj | #action walshh_ to send note to the mailing list about this in hopes of getting attention from other driver maintainers. | 16:38 |
| jungleboyj | walshh_: You ok with moving on? | 16:39 |
| walshh_ | yes, I am...thanks | 16:39 |
| jungleboyj | walshh_: Thanks. | 16:39 |
| jungleboyj | #topic bug on migration of attached volumes. | 16:40 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "bug on migration of attached volumes. (Meeting topic: Cinder)" | 16:40 | |
| jungleboyj | tpsilva: Your floor. | 16:40 |
| tpsilva | okay, thanks | 16:40 |
| tpsilva | so I came across this last week... when testing migration I noticed a rather weird behavior and would like to confirm if we have an issue on cinder or nova | 16:41 |
| e0ne | sorry, need to disconnect now. see you next week | 16:41 |
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| tpsilva | migrating a detached volume works fine, but the migration of an attached volume does not seem to finish, ever | 16:41 |
| jungleboyj | tpsilva: Ok. | 16:41 |
| smcginnis | Thanks e0 | 16:42 |
| tpsilva | cinder calls nova, nova creates the new volume, moves the data, attaches it to the instance and then it should call back cinder to delete the volume | 16:42 |
| tpsilva | but the old volume never gets deleted | 16:42 |
| jungleboyj | tpsilva: Ok. | 16:42 |
| tpsilva | I can see the call on nova code, nothing's apparently wrong there | 16:42 |
| whoami-rajat | tpsilva: can you share the bug link? would be helpful. | 16:42 |
| jungleboyj | That functionality is quite new so wouldn't be surprised if there are issues. | 16:43 |
| tpsilva | jungleboyj: oh, is it? | 16:43 |
| tpsilva | on both sides? nova and cinder? | 16:43 |
| jungleboyj | I thought it was relatively new. | 16:43 |
| jungleboyj | Maybe I am thinking of attached extend though. | 16:43 |
| tpsilva | whoami-rajat: didn't create it... I didn't know how it should work or if it's indeed a bug, so I wanted to confirm it first | 16:43 |
| ganso | jungleboyj: I remember seeing it in Queens, and the same bug exists in Queens and master, so it appears it hasn't been thoroughly tested | 16:44 |
| tpsilva | maybe there are some issues with the status of the old volume, or the migration_status that prevents it from being deleted | 16:44 |
| tpsilva | but I didn't dig too deep trying to debug it | 16:44 |
| jungleboyj | ganso: Do you know of a bug for it? | 16:44 |
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| tpsilva | jungleboyj: we tested it on queens, rocky and master | 16:45 |
| ganso | jungleboyj: I haven't seen one logged | 16:45 |
| tpsilva | so I'll log the bug then | 16:45 |
| jungleboyj | tpsilva: Yes, I think that is what needs to be done. | 16:45 |
| tpsilva | alright | 16:46 |
| jungleboyj | If you have specific steps for recreating that would be helpful. | 16:46 |
| jungleboyj | tpsilva: Which backend are you using? | 16:46 |
| tpsilva | tested on NetApp and LVM | 16:46 |
| tpsilva | ah, interesting part that I forgot | 16:46 |
| jungleboyj | Same result either way? | 16:46 |
| tpsilva | jungleboyj: yep | 16:46 |
| tpsilva | but, retyping works fine, which is odd | 16:46 |
| jungleboyj | tpsilva: That isn't totally surprising. | 16:47 |
| jungleboyj | Was it a retype without migration? | 16:47 |
| tpsilva | with migration | 16:47 |
| ganso | and attached | 16:47 |
| tpsilva | yep | 16:47 |
| jungleboyj | Now, that is interesting. | 16:47 |
| tpsilva | alright, I'm creating the LP bug | 16:48 |
| jungleboyj | So, there must be something little in the last step that is lost with migration only. | 16:49 |
| smcginnis | There have been changes on the nova side for the new attach flow and multiattach. Maybe something got missed there. | 16:49 |
| jungleboyj | #action tpsilva to open an LP bug. | 16:49 |
| jungleboyj | tpsilva: Can you add the bug you open into the notes from the meeting please? | 16:50 |
| tpsilva | will do | 16:50 |
| jungleboyj | tpsilva: Thank you. | 16:51 |
| jungleboyj | Appreciate you bringing this up as well. | 16:51 |
| tpsilva | jungleboyj: thanks | 16:51 |
| jungleboyj | tpsilva: That was quick. Thanks. | 16:52 |
| jungleboyj | Ok. So that covers that part of the agenda. | 16:52 |
| jungleboyj | #topic Bug Triage | 16:53 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Bug Triage (Meeting topic: Cinder)" | 16:53 | |
| jungleboyj | whoami-rajat: Any updates on the bugs in the list? | 16:53 |
| jungleboyj | We have a few minutes left. | 16:54 |
| jungleboyj | Or if anyone has other topics. | 16:54 |
| * lbragstad has something policy related but will wait if needed | 16:54 | |
| jungleboyj | lbragstad: You win. Please go. | 16:54 |
| lbragstad | first - thanks for the reviews on https://review.openstack.org/#/c/602489/ | 16:54 |
| whoami-rajat | geguileo_PTO: isn't available since the past 1 week. so no updates. also no updates on other bugs too. | 16:54 |
| jungleboyj | whoami-rajat: Ok. Thanks. | 16:55 |
| lbragstad | ^ that's essentially a template for what we were talking about on Thursday at the PTG about having safer ways to upgrade policies without regression | 16:55 |
| lbragstad | i wanted to prove that the tests actually work when changing the policy - which is what https://review.openstack.org/#/c/604115/1 does | 16:56 |
| lbragstad | and that's when i noticed https://review.openstack.org/#/c/604115/1/cinder/tests/unit/policy.json | 16:56 |
| jungleboyj | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/602489/ | 16:57 |
| lbragstad | i can pull that out into it's own cinder change if folks thinks its useful | 16:57 |
| jungleboyj | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/604115/1 | 16:57 |
| jungleboyj | lbragstad: Oh. That is good. | 16:57 |
| smcginnis | lbragstad: You mean get rid of the unit test policy file? | 16:57 |
| lbragstad | ideally - the more changes like #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/602489/4 land the more policies can be removed from #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/604115/1 | 16:57 |
| lbragstad | correct | 16:58 |
| jungleboyj | lbragstad: That probably should have been done back when we moved policies in code. | 16:58 |
| jungleboyj | smcginnis: Right? | 16:58 |
| lbragstad | since 1.) you have defaults in code and 2.) the defaults are being tested | 16:58 |
| smcginnis | lbragstad: That would be great! | 16:58 |
| jungleboyj | smcginnis: ++ | 16:58 |
| lbragstad | it's cool that it wasn't | 16:58 |
| lbragstad | all of of this is a lot of work, so small, iterative changes are nice | 16:59 |
| jungleboyj | lbragstad: ++ | 16:59 |
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| jungleboyj | Bite size changes that we can try to digest are good. | 16:59 |
| lbragstad | but i can propose the removal of that policy from the testing policy file | 16:59 |
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| jungleboyj | Yeah, lets start removing those overrides that we can. I think that is good. | 17:00 |
| lbragstad | otherwise https://review.openstack.org/#/c/604115/1/cinder/policies/volumes.py should show how those tests protect your API | 17:00 |
| jungleboyj | lbragstad: Thank you for the work you are doing there! | 17:00 |
| lbragstad | yep - anytime.. let me know if you have questions | 17:00 |
| jungleboyj | lbragstad: Will do. | 17:00 |
| lbragstad | or if anyone starts porting other tests and wants eyes on it | 17:00 |
| jungleboyj | Ok. We are at the top of the hour and need to wrap up. | 17:00 |
| jungleboyj | Thank you everyone for meeting! | 17:01 |
| jungleboyj | #endmeeting | 17:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/" | 17:01 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Oct 10 17:01:07 2018 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 17:01 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/cinder/2018/cinder.2018-10-10-16.00.html | 17:01 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/cinder/2018/cinder.2018-10-10-16.00.txt | 17:01 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/cinder/2018/cinder.2018-10-10-16.00.log.html | 17:01 |
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| fungi | if people were looking for a storyboard meeting this week, i think it's probably cancelled | 19:11 |
| fungi | but feel free to review the wip spec for a story attachments implementation: https://review.openstack.org/607377 | 19:11 |
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| notmyname | swift team meeting time | 21:00 |
| notmyname | #startmeeting swift | 21:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Oct 10 21:00:20 2018 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is notmyname. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 21:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 21:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: swift)" | 21:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'swift' | 21:00 |
| notmyname | who's here for the swift team meeting | 21:00 |
| timburke | o/ | 21:00 |
| m_kazuhiro | o/ | 21:00 |
| kota_ | hello | 21:00 |
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| rledisez | hi o/ | 21:00 |
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| mattoliverau | o/ | 21:01 |
| notmyname | welcome | 21:01 |
| notmyname | I myself just got off a plane. had a customer meeting this week, so I'm a bit tired. I vote we have a short meeting :-) | 21:01 |
| notmyname | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/Swift | 21:01 |
| notmyname | the agenda doesn't look like anything specific has been added, so let's do like we did last week with a quick overview of what's going on | 21:02 |
| mattoliverau | Kk | 21:02 |
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| notmyname | priority reviews page still looks accurate. nothing's been added, nothing's been merged | 21:02 |
| notmyname | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Swift/PriorityReviews | 21:02 |
| notmyname | still looks like there's some waiting for patch authors. I didn't see any obvious waiting on reviewers there | 21:03 |
| notmyname | oh, maybe the account undelete patch wanted some clarity from you mattoliverau on your review | 21:03 |
| mattoliverau | Yeah, im part way throigh a review there | 21:04 |
| notmyname | cool, thanks | 21:04 |
| notmyname | m_kazuhiro: any updates on the general task queue work this week? | 21:04 |
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| m_kazuhiro | mattoliverau added some reviews and I updated patch for them. | 21:04 |
| mattoliverau | Nice | 21:05 |
| kota_ | nice | 21:05 |
| notmyname | that's great | 21:05 |
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| mattoliverau | Im working on a follow patch to clean up the exirer docs a bit | 21:05 |
| notmyname | cool | 21:05 |
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| notmyname | rledisez: anything to share on LOSF this week? | 21:06 |
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| rledisez | notmyname: nothing specific, we've been working on improving performance of SSYNC over LOSF, it's going fine for now | 21:07 |
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| notmyname | rledisez: interesting | 21:07 |
| notmyname | that makes me think about what we want to do long-term with ssync anyway | 21:07 |
| rledisez | notmyname: we are thinking of that too :) | 21:08 |
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| notmyname | or rather, does it make sense to improve ssync for lsof or just actually get started on tsync? | 21:08 |
| notmyname | rledisez: *please* share your thoughts on the matter. either on the ideas wiki page or in irc or email or something. don't let it stay in ovh :-) | 21:09 |
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| rledisez | notmyname: I know alecuyer would like to dev something else, my opinion is that now ssync is getting stable, i would prefer to improve it instead of starting again something new and with new bugs | 21:09 |
| rledisez | so, for now we are profiling ssync | 21:09 |
| notmyname | we at swiftstack have started talking about what big swift thing we need to prioritize next. so (among other things) we've been talking about tsync vs losf. both are good, but it makes more sense to work together than separately | 21:10 |
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| kota_ | sounds reasonable story | 21:11 |
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| rledisez | sure | 21:11 |
| mattoliverau | +100 for together in community :) | 21:11 |
| notmyname | :-) | 21:11 |
| rledisez | we won't start a tsync dev without any discussion | 21:11 |
| notmyname | good:-) | 21:11 |
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| notmyname | timburke: anything to share on s3 patches? just the stuff on the reviews page? | 21:12 |
| notmyname | timburke: and thanks for continuing to clean up the gate jobs. the coverage change you proposed seems reasonable | 21:13 |
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| notmyname | hmm... I think timburke may have said hi and then sneaked out! | 21:14 |
| mattoliverau | Lol | 21:14 |
| kota_ | lol | 21:14 |
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| notmyname | anything else from anyone? anything you want to bring up or questions or help you need? | 21:14 |
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| notmyname | ok, I'll take that as "no" | 21:15 |
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| notmyname | thank you very much for your work on swift | 21:16 |
| notmyname | and thansk for coming today | 21:16 |
| notmyname | #endmeeting | 21:16 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/" | 21:16 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Oct 10 21:16:19 2018 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 21:16 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/swift/2018/swift.2018-10-10-21.00.html | 21:16 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/swift/2018/swift.2018-10-10-21.00.txt | 21:16 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/swift/2018/swift.2018-10-10-21.00.log.html | 21:16 |
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| timburke | shhh... *totally* still paying attention :P | 21:19 |
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