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| mkrai | #startmeeting zun | 03:00 |
|---|---|---|
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Nov 1 03:00:01 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is mkrai. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 03:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 03:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: zun)" | 03:00 | |
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| mkrai | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Zun#Agenda_for_2016-11-01_0300_UTC Today's agenda | 03:00 |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'zun' | 03:00 |
| mkrai | #topic Roll Call | 03:00 |
| Namrata | Namrata | 03:00 |
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| mkrai | Thanks for joining Namrata | 03:00 |
| mkrai | Let's wait for few more meeting for attendees to join | 03:01 |
| Wenzhi | hi | 03:01 |
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| Namrata | Thanks mkrai | 03:01 |
| Namrata | sure | 03:01 |
| mkrai | Wenzhi: hi | 03:01 |
| cloud_player | Hi | 03:01 |
| mkrai | cloud_player: Hi | 03:01 |
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| mkrai | #topic Announcements | 03:02 |
| mkrai | Hongbin is on vacation at Nov 1. | 03:02 |
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| mkrai | Zun presentation at Barcelona summit is available. | 03:02 |
| mkrai | #link https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Go8_G3iLyl4 | 03:02 |
| cloud_player | greate | 03:02 |
| mkrai | Folks do watch our project presentation :) | 03:03 |
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| mkrai | Any announcement from team? | 03:03 |
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| mkrai | #topic Review Action Items | 03:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Review Action Items (Meeting topic: zun)" | 03:04 | |
| mkrai | None | 03:04 |
| mkrai | #topic Support interactive mode | 03:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Support interactive mode (Meeting topic: zun)" | 03:04 | |
| mkrai | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/zun/+spec/support-interactive-mode The BP | 03:05 |
| mkrai | I guess aditi is not here | 03:05 |
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| mkrai | Anyone willing to work on this? | 03:05 |
| mkrai | Ok let's advance | 03:06 |
| mkrai | #topic Container image store (mkrai) | 03:06 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Container image store (mkrai) (Meeting topic: zun)" | 03:06 | |
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| mkrai | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/zun/+spec/glance-integration The BP | 03:06 |
| Namrata | I will have a look at the Bp | 03:06 |
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| mkrai | Thanks Namrata. Feel free to assign it to yourself | 03:07 |
| Namrata | okay great | 03:07 |
| mkrai | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/383678/ Madhuri's patch | 03:07 |
| mkrai | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/380298/ Shubham's patch | 03:07 |
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| mkrai | Ok so we have finished implementing the base patches | 03:08 |
| mkrai | The one by shubham for image API endpoint is merged | 03:08 |
| mkrai | My patch is pending for review. | 03:08 |
| Wenzhi | will help to review | 03:09 |
| mkrai | Thanks Wenzhi | 03:09 |
| Wenzhi | np :) | 03:09 |
| Namrata | will also help in reviweing | 03:09 |
| mkrai | Thanks Namrata | 03:09 |
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| mkrai | Few follow up patches more to finish this off | 03:09 |
| mkrai | Any questions on this bp? | 03:10 |
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| mkrai | #topic Container sandbox (hongbin) | 03:10 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Container sandbox (hongbin) (Meeting topic: zun)" | 03:11 | |
| mkrai | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/zun/+spec/neutron-integration The BP | 03:11 |
| mkrai | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/380646/ The patch | 03:11 |
| mkrai | The patch has got some good reviews I guess | 03:11 |
| mkrai | So let's wait for Hongbin to return and submit a revision | 03:11 |
| mkrai | Any questions on this bp? | 03:12 |
| mkrai | #topic Open Discussion | 03:12 |
| mkrai | Anyone have any topic to discuss? | 03:13 |
| Wenzhi | do we have any project roadmap for O release? | 03:13 |
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| mkrai | Not sure about this. When is the release date? | 03:14 |
| Wenzhi | maybe in April? | 03:14 |
| cloud_player | is there any bp I can take? :) | 03:14 |
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| mkrai | Wenzhi: If so, we can implement few more important features too | 03:15 |
| Wenzhi | mkrai: yes | 03:15 |
| mkrai | cloud_player: you can take a look at the list of blueprints | 03:15 |
| mkrai | cloud_player: #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/zun | 03:16 |
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| mkrai | cloud_player: Let me know if you're interested on working on any of these | 03:16 |
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| mkrai | Wenzhi: Let's discuss with Hongbin and list out some important features to our timeline | 03:17 |
| mkrai | That will be helpful I gues | 03:17 |
| Wenzhi | agree | 03:17 |
| mkrai | I will record an action for it | 03:17 |
| Wenzhi | thanks | 03:17 |
| mkrai | #action Discuss with hongbin on features list for release o | 03:18 |
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| mkrai | Anything else? If no, I will end meeting early. | 03:19 |
| cloud_player | is there any bp available for me to own? | 03:20 |
| Namrata | Not from my side | 03:20 |
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| mkrai | cloud_player: There are few bps which doesn't have any assignee | 03:21 |
| mkrai | You can take them | 03:21 |
| Wenzhi | cloud_player: you can check the bp list and tell mkrai or me if you're planning to work on any | 03:21 |
| cloud_player | I saw the bp list, but don't know which are planned in this release | 03:22 |
| mkrai | cloud_player: You can ping me the link, I will try to help with it | 03:22 |
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| mkrai | Do you any specific bp to work on? | 03:22 |
| cloud_player | you know, the bps with no Assignee are not | 03:22 |
| cloud_player | Priority | 03:22 |
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| Wenzhi | we'll list out some important features for O release later | 03:24 |
| mkrai | cloud_player: If you see any bp that has been assigned to someone but not been worked so far. Share the link with me, I will assign it to you | 03:24 |
| mkrai | Yes that will also help | 03:24 |
| cloud_player | mkrai, that's a good idea | 03:24 |
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| mkrai | Thanks for your interest cloud_player | 03:24 |
| cloud_player | I will find any bp with no action for long time though is assigned to somebody | 03:25 |
| mkrai | sure cloud_player | 03:25 |
| cloud_player | thanks~ | 03:25 |
| mkrai | np | 03:25 |
| Wenzhi | cloud_player: you can also regiester new ones | 03:25 |
| mkrai | Thanks for joining everyone | 03:27 |
| mkrai | Have a good day ahead! | 03:27 |
| mkrai | #endmeeting | 03:27 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 03:27 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Nov 1 03:27:20 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 03:27 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/zun/2016/zun.2016-11-01-03.00.html | 03:27 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/zun/2016/zun.2016-11-01-03.00.txt | 03:27 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/zun/2016/zun.2016-11-01-03.00.log.html | 03:27 |
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| eranrom | #startmeeting storlets | 08:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Nov 1 08:00:00 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is eranrom. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 08:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 08:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: storlets)" | 08:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'storlets' | 08:00 |
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| eranrom | Hi | 08:00 |
| takashi | o/ | 08:00 |
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| eranrom | takashi: Hi. Shell we start? | 08:00 |
| takashi | kota_: around? | 08:01 |
| eranrom | takashi: Do you know if he planned on joining? | 08:01 |
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| kota_ | here | 08:02 |
| eranrom | kota_: Hi. | 08:02 |
| eranrom | ok, lets start. | 08:02 |
| kota_ | hi eranrom, just finished the previous meeting | 08:02 |
| takashi | eranrom: yes :-) | 08:02 |
| eranrom | I have one topic for today: | 08:02 |
| eranrom | #topic use destack for s2aio | 08:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "use destack for s2aio (Meeting topic: storlets)" | 08:03 | |
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| eranrom | At the summit, we agreed that the next step in the big-tent work would be to get rid of 'apt-get install keystone' | 08:03 |
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| eranrom | I figured out that the best way to do that is to use devstack (with keystone and swift only) instead of the current 'proprietary' swift/keystone Ansible installation scripts | 08:04 |
| takashi | eranrom: Do you mind if I explain some context for that to kota_? | 08:04 |
| eranrom | takashi: sure, please do | 08:04 |
| takashi | eranrom: thanks | 08:04 |
| takashi | akihito: hi | 08:05 |
| takashi | kota_: As I told you before I'm hitting a permission problem in my packaging work | 08:05 |
| eranrom | akihito: hi | 08:05 |
| kota_ | akihito!!! | 08:05 |
| akihito | Sorry for the delay | 08:05 |
| akihito | Hi! | 08:05 |
| kota_ | takashi: liberasurecode? | 08:06 |
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| takashi | takashi: no. I forgot the precise name, but something like crypto | 08:07 |
| takashi | ^^^^ not for me, but for kota_ | 08:08 |
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| takashi | which is caused by duplicate install about the package by apt and pip | 08:09 |
| takashi | As you advised me, I stoped to install requirement.txt for functional testing, but it can not be the solution because it seems to be required by python-keystoneclient, which is in test-requirements.txt | 08:09 |
| takashi | s/it seems/that crypto package seems/g | 08:10 |
| takashi | That's why we are currently trying to get rid of apt installation. | 08:11 |
| kota_ | I didn't get yet why that causes using devstack? | 08:11 |
| kota_ | I don't have opposite but wondering | 08:11 |
| eranrom | kota_: It just seems the easiest way to install keystone without taking care of many dependenies. | 08:12 |
| eranrom | trying to do "pip install ." from a freshly checkout keystone master does not seem to work. | 08:12 |
| eranrom | that is, the install finished successfully, but nothing actually runs due to missing deps | 08:13 |
| kota_ | eranrom: how about stable/xxx release? | 08:13 |
| eranrom | of keystone? | 08:13 |
| kota_ | yup | 08:14 |
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| kota_ | i think we have a couple of problems | 08:14 |
| kota_ | A. installation, B. setup | 08:14 |
| eranrom | kota_: you mean installation and setup of keystone? | 08:15 |
| kota_ | eranrom: yes | 08:15 |
| eranrom | kota_: well, devstack takes care of both (with some config nobs as well) | 08:15 |
| kota_ | eranrom: maybe? | 08:15 |
| takashi | kota_: takling about the test for stable release, you can sepcify which tag/branch for each project do you checkout in devstack | 08:16 |
| kota_ | i think devstack should work for both keystone installation and setup independently | 08:16 |
| eranrom | regarding stable/release, the keystone docs specifically state that the keystone repo does not take care of deps. see note here: http://docs.openstack.org/developer/keystone/installing.html | 08:17 |
| kota_ | but the problem takashi got seems virtual env installation on the keystone-installed environment??? | 08:17 |
| kota_ | that doesn't seem to be related to the way (whether using apt or devstack). | 08:18 |
| eranrom | kota_: oh, so you were saying that if takashi used stable/XXX for keystone that conflict between apt and pip would have been gone? | 08:18 |
| kota_ | eranrom: yup | 08:18 |
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| kota_ | exactly, using devstack is an easy way to intallation/setup | 08:18 |
| kota_ | but the environment should be similar with installed by apt | 08:19 |
| kota_ | the keystone will be setup-ed in the out of virtualenv? | 08:19 |
| eranrom | kota_: Apologies the ignorance, but does devstack install in a virtual env? | 08:20 |
| kota_ | I cannot cleary say which way is the best though. | 08:20 |
| kota_ | idk | 08:20 |
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| takashi | devstack creates virtual env for each services, so keystone is installed in one virtual env, and swift is installed in the other env (if we also install swift in devstack) | 08:20 |
| kota_ | takashi: you're wise | 08:21 |
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| eranrom | takashi: that is the idea. with devstack we also get for free additional distros, and no longer need to maintain our own install scripts | 08:21 |
| kota_ | that mean, storlets also cannot use the keystone virtualenv? | 08:21 |
| kota_ | takashi:^^ | 08:22 |
| takashi | kota_: still need some more look, but maybe no | 08:23 |
| kota_ | interesting | 08:23 |
| eranrom | kota_: takashi: does it matter? | 08:23 |
| eranrom | that is if storlets can use the keystone virtual env? | 08:23 |
| kota_ | i think what we need is to install keystone-client module in the virtual env, right? | 08:24 |
| kota_ | s/the virtual env/storlets virtual env/ | 08:24 |
| eranrom | kota_: right | 08:24 |
| kota_ | ah, it might work if duplicated installation for keystone-client to both keystone server virtual env and storlets virtual env | 08:25 |
| kota_ | and no installtion to outside python. | 08:26 |
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| kota_ | takashi: that's what you'd like to do? | 08:26 |
| takashi | kota_: yes, and the important point here is that if we install keystone in virtualenv, we don't need 'sudo' anymore for installing keystone | 08:27 |
| takashi | The current problem seems to be caused when we install one package in root (by apt), and again install the same package in non-root (by pip) | 08:27 |
| kota_ | takashi: that looks a bit far from the fact, that avoids the installation from storlets anymore, right? IIRC? | 08:28 |
| kota_ | s/IIRC/IIUC/ | 08:28 |
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| takashi | kota_: oh, yes. | 08:31 |
| kota_ | (or just, keeping as reference scripts) | 08:31 |
| eranrom | So are we in agreement for going the devstack way? | 08:32 |
| kota_ | could try | 08:33 |
| kota_ | but we have some tasks to consider | 08:33 |
| kota_ | how we're migrating the test environment to devstack gate | 08:33 |
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| eranrom | kota_: Well, currently, I am not looking at moving the storlets installation to devstack, only using devstack to install swift and storlets as part of s2aio. | 08:34 |
| eranrom | kota_: unless I am missing here something. | 08:34 |
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| kota_ | eranrom: k | 08:35 |
| kota_ | eranrom: my point is | 08:35 |
| kota_ | how to set up the gate job | 08:35 |
| eranrom | kota_: we already have a gate job that calls s2aio followed by calling the functional tests | 08:36 |
| kota_ | now we're using s2io setup script in the functional test gate job and it stops takashi's work | 08:36 |
| takashi | kota_: At the first point, we can call stack.sh from s2aio.sh | 08:37 |
| kota_ | the next step is adding devstack job to run functional? I'm not sure it works or not. | 08:37 |
| takashi | and keep using current func test setting | 08:37 |
| kota_ | takashi: ah, you mean, we are including devstack dependency to current storlets master? | 08:38 |
| takashi | kota_: yes | 08:38 |
| eranrom | Is that a problem? | 08:39 |
| kota_ | to be honest, i don't like that way because it increases extra dependencies which we don't need in production | 08:39 |
| kota_ | i thought, just running storlets setup and functional on devstack vm instead of adding dependency to storlets repo. | 08:40 |
| eranrom | kota_: this is only used in the s2aio script, which IMO, is not actually used in production | 08:40 |
| kota_ | that should be crearly separated from our repo. | 08:41 |
| takashi | kota_: FYI, some openstack projects like magnum has a devstack plugin in their repo, which is used for testing purpose | 08:41 |
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| takashi | s/has/have/g | 08:41 |
| kota_ | takashi: but swift doesn't | 08:42 |
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| takashi | kota_: That's because swift is totally cared in devstack and don't need any additional plugin | 08:42 |
| eranrom | ok, what do we mean by having dependency on devstack? | 08:42 |
| kota_ | takashi: what's additional plugin? | 08:43 |
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| takashi | kota_: something like this https://github.com/openstack/magnum/tree/master/devstack | 08:43 |
| takashi | Nova, Cinder or other 'core' projects do not have this kind of things, because they are taken care by devstack totally. | 08:44 |
| takashi | But young projects sometimes have this kind of additonal install framework for testing in their own repo | 08:45 |
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| takashi | So for me, it seems reasonable to have installation framework for testing in our repo. Of cause we should mark them for 'testing purpose', not for production. | 08:46 |
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| kota_ | takashi: I'm now confusing | 08:47 |
| yuanying_ | Recently, devstack plugin is main stream. Heat moved devstack plugin from devstack itself | 08:47 |
| kota_ | takashi: you said, we need to call stack.sh in the s2io.sh but the plugin looks to be prepared when devstack setuping | 08:47 |
| kota_ | takashi: I think just making preparation for setuping for devstack, that looks good | 08:48 |
| eranrom | yuanying_: and I think we should do the same as a next step. However, I think that we are currently trying to settle some other misunderstanding. | 08:48 |
| kota_ | takashi: but I'm feeling that's bad to make install script via devstack (meaning fetch devstack and calling stack.sh) . | 08:49 |
| kota_ | eranrom: that's what I'm feeling > misunderstanding. | 08:49 |
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| eranrom | kota_: sorry. I think this is a first step that should be followed by having a storlet devstack plugin | 08:50 |
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| kota_ | eranrom: sounds reasonable | 08:50 |
| kota_ | maybe the steps are | 08:50 |
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| takashi | eranrom: +1 | 08:51 |
| kota_ | 1. making plugin, 2. making devstack gate which can run with plugin (this should be successful) and then | 08:51 |
| kota_ | 3. making a package which can run in the env 2 | 08:51 |
| kota_ | maybe 4. set the 2, 3 to voting job and deprecate current env or set as non-voting? | 08:52 |
| takashi | kota_: do you mean to add another gate job which runs over devstack installation? | 08:52 |
| kota_ | takashi: sur | 08:52 |
| kota_ | sure | 08:52 |
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| kota_ | which can run successfuly with your new packaging? | 08:53 |
| kota_ | otherwise, current gate job should fail forever? | 08:53 |
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| kota_ | am i missing something? | 08:53 |
| eranrom | kota_: 2 questions. | 08:54 |
| kota_ | because current gate envrionment for functests is not on devstack, IIRC. | 08:54 |
| kota_ | eranrom: go ahead. | 08:54 |
| eranrom | 1. This means that we cannot land Takashi's work until we are done with step 2 | 08:54 |
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| kota_ | eranrom: for 1, i think so. | 08:55 |
| eranrom | 2. In the suggested steps, where do we place the functional tests? | 08:55 |
| takashi | eranrom: are you talking about the way to run functional tests over devstack? | 08:56 |
| takashi | (the way to kick our functional tests over devstack | 08:56 |
| eranrom | takashi: yes. | 08:56 |
| kota_ | eranrom: for 2, functests will run in current env until step 2, and since step 2 functests will run both environment | 08:56 |
| kota_ | and then, after step3 or at the same time, we will stop to run functests in the current environment. | 08:57 |
| kota_ | i think | 08:57 |
| eranrom | ok, I think I gotcha. I think we have two options to go forward: | 08:58 |
| eranrom | 1. replace current swift/keystone installation with devstack installation, land takashis packaging work, and then proceed to adding a storlet devstack plugin and move the gate job | 08:58 |
| eranrom | 2. follow kota's steps above. | 08:59 |
| eranrom | I am afraid that getting a storlet plugin into devstack might take a long time. | 08:59 |
| kota_ | eranrom: true | 08:59 |
| takashi | +1 for 1. | 08:59 |
| eranrom | time is up, shell we move to #openstack-storlets? | 09:00 |
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| takashi | eranrom: yes | 09:00 |
| eranrom | #endmeeting | 09:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 09:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Nov 1 09:00:34 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 09:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/storlets/2016/storlets.2016-11-01-08.00.html | 09:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/storlets/2016/storlets.2016-11-01-08.00.txt | 09:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/storlets/2016/storlets.2016-11-01-08.00.log.html | 09:00 |
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| yanyanhu | #startmeeting senlin | 13:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Nov 1 13:00:02 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is yanyanhu. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 13:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 13:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: senlin)" | 13:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'senlin' | 13:00 |
| yanyanhu | hi | 13:00 |
| elynn | hi | 13:00 |
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| lvdongbing | hi | 13:00 |
| lixinhui | hi | 13:00 |
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| yanyanhu | hi, guys | 13:00 |
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| yanyanhu | lets wait for while for other attenders | 13:00 |
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| yanyanhu | ok, lets start, I think Qiming will join soon | 13:01 |
| yanyanhu | here is the agenda https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/SenlinAgenda#Agenda_.282016-11-01_1300_UTC.29 | 13:01 |
| yanyanhu | please feel free to add any item you want to discuss | 13:02 |
| yanyanhu | #topic ocata work items | 13:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "ocata work items (Meeting topic: senlin)" | 13:02 | |
| Qiming | o/ | 13:02 |
| yanyanhu | https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/senlin-ocata-workitems | 13:02 |
| yanyanhu | hi, Qiming | 13:02 |
| yanyanhu | ok, the first item | 13:02 |
| yanyanhu | performance test. no progress recently | 13:02 |
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| yanyanhu | will work on it later after versioned request job is done | 13:03 |
| yanyanhu | next one is HA | 13:03 |
| yanyanhu | hi, Qiming, lixinhui | 13:03 |
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| yanyanhu | I guess no code work in last two weeks | 13:03 |
| lixinhui | yes | 13:04 |
| lixinhui | we delivered Auto-healing | 13:04 |
| yanyanhu | but do have some new ideas/plan after summit :) | 13:04 |
| lixinhui | presentation | 13:04 |
| yanyanhu | cool | 13:04 |
| lixinhui | and get good feedback there, from masakari | 13:04 |
| yanyanhu | how is it going | 13:04 |
| yanyanhu | taker team? | 13:04 |
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| lixinhui | the HA team | 13:04 |
| lixinhui | and Adam | 13:04 |
| yanyanhu | ah, I see | 13:05 |
| lixinhui | the suse guy | 13:05 |
| lixinhui | and one pacemaker guy | 13:05 |
| lixinhui | they suggest we cooperate on HA spec and integration together | 13:05 |
| yanyanhu | great | 13:05 |
| lixinhui | on my side, I may draft a BP about mistral integration with Senlin | 13:06 |
| lixinhui | in this week | 13:06 |
| lixinhui | will need your comments and suggestions | 13:06 |
| yanyanhu | nice, please ping us in the channel and will definitely help to review | 13:06 |
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| lixinhui | :) | 13:06 |
| yanyanhu | I believe there are lots of jobs we can do together with them | 13:07 |
| elynn | And they also suggest us to attend their weekly meeting. | 13:07 |
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| lixinhui | Yes :) | 13:07 |
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| lixinhui | Thursday afternoon? | 13:07 |
| yanyanhu | yes, I saw the message you left in the etherpad | 13:07 |
| yanyanhu | our afternoon? | 13:07 |
| yanyanhu | hope that won't conflict with your day time work | 13:08 |
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| elynn | Can't remember the time | 13:08 |
| yanyanhu | I think Qiming joined that meeting before | 13:08 |
| elynn | https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/HATeamMeeting | 13:08 |
| yanyanhu | ok, we can check the schedule later. Hope you and Qiming can get time to join it, lixinhui | 13:08 |
| elynn | Can't find meeting time info from above page... | 13:08 |
| lixinhui | Okay | 13:09 |
| lixinhui | will find the time later | 13:09 |
| yanyanhu | elynn, I recall its our afternoon but not very sure | 13:09 |
| yanyanhu | lixinhui, thanks :) | 13:09 |
| lixinhui | :) | 13:09 |
| yanyanhu | ok, plz update the etherpad if there is any new progress about HA, lixinhui Qiming, :) | 13:09 |
| yanyanhu | thanks | 13:09 |
| lixinhui | sure | 13:10 |
| yanyanhu | ok, lets move on | 13:10 |
| yanyanhu | document | 13:10 |
| elynn | Ah, here http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/#High_Availability_Meeting Monday afternoon. | 13:10 |
| yanyanhu | elynn, nice | 13:10 |
| yanyanhu | maybe I will join it as well | 13:10 |
| yanyanhu | as listener :) | 13:10 |
| yanyanhu | ok, next one | 13:11 |
| yanyanhu | versioned requests | 13:11 |
| yanyanhu | Qiming is now focusing on it | 13:11 |
| yanyanhu | and I'm also trying to provide some help | 13:11 |
| yanyanhu | the basic framework has been ready before summit | 13:11 |
| yanyanhu | so the current job is migrating old non-versioned implementation to versioned one | 13:12 |
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| yanyanhu | Qiming is working on cluster related APIs and I'm now working on node related ones | 13:12 |
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| yanyanhu | you guys can refer to our recent patches to get more idea about this work | 13:12 |
| yanyanhu | and welcome more hands on it if you guys have time :) | 13:13 |
| yanyanhu | this the one of the most important work we want to finish this cycle | 13:13 |
| yanyanhu | and without it, it will be risky to make any change on our API interfaces | 13:13 |
| yanyanhu | and also rpc interface I think | 13:13 |
| yanyanhu | so hope can finish it soon | 13:14 |
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| yanyanhu | hi, Qiming, any more comment on the detail? | 13:14 |
| yanyanhu | ok, lets move on | 13:15 |
| yanyanhu | zaqar message receiver | 13:15 |
| yanyanhu | spent some time in last two weeks to address some backlogs | 13:15 |
| yanyanhu | including add more support to openstacksdk | 13:15 |
| yanyanhu | brian have helped to review and approve those patches | 13:15 |
| yanyanhu | and I think message receiver can now work correctly | 13:16 |
| yanyanhu | I'm still working on integration test for it and this job has almost been done | 13:16 |
| yanyanhu | only need to wait for sdk to bump its version to make it work | 13:16 |
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| yanyanhu | after that, I will consider to build a story as reference for user | 13:16 |
| yanyanhu | to illustrate how to use this new type of receiver | 13:17 |
| briancurtin | yanyanhu: i’m actually doing a release right now so a new version should be out within an hour. would have been out right now but got busy at the end of yesterday | 13:17 |
| yanyanhu | briancurtin, great, thanks a lot :) | 13:18 |
| yanyanhu | I will try to check the integration test after new release is ready | 13:18 |
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| yanyanhu | ok, any comments or question about this work? | 13:19 |
| yanyanhu | ok, next one | 13:19 |
| yanyanhu | event/notification, no progress I guess | 13:19 |
| yanyanhu | next one, batch policy | 13:19 |
| yanyanhu | ruijie is not here? | 13:20 |
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| yanyanhu | ruijie is now working on it | 13:20 |
| yanyanhu | the basic support has been done and he is now adding batch policy support to more cluster actions | 13:20 |
| yanyanhu | like cluster_delete | 13:20 |
| yanyanhu | node_delete, etc. | 13:20 |
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| yanyanhu | please help to review the code if you guys have time :) | 13:21 |
| yanyanhu | thanks | 13:21 |
| elynn | okay, will | 13:21 |
| yanyanhu | ok, above is all items in the etherpad | 13:21 |
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| yanyanhu | hi, XueFengLiu lvdongbing, plz feel free to add work items you are working on to the etherpad as well :) | 13:22 |
| lvdongbing | Ok :) | 13:22 |
| yanyanhu | that will be helpful for us to track them | 13:22 |
| yanyanhu | thanks :) | 13:23 |
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| yanyanhu | I believe you guys are also working on some important items | 13:23 |
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| yanyanhu | although they are not on the list | 13:23 |
| yanyanhu | ok, next item in agenda | 13:24 |
| yanyanhu | #topic news from Barcelona summit | 13:24 |
| Qiming | xuefeng is trying to rework the senlin lock thing | 13:24 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "news from Barcelona summit (Meeting topic: senlin)" | 13:24 | |
| yanyanhu | Qiming, ah right | 13:24 |
| Qiming | but I am not sure he is changing it in the right way | 13:24 |
| yanyanhu | the first patch has been there | 13:24 |
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| yanyanhu | Qiming, maybe this worth a spec/bp? | 13:25 |
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| Qiming | don't think so | 13:25 |
| yanyanhu | I think we'd better make a more thorough discussion on it before starting code job | 13:25 |
| Qiming | need some explanation why this change is needed | 13:25 |
| yanyanhu | yes | 13:25 |
| Qiming | yes, or else it would be a waste of time | 13:25 |
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| yanyanhu | xuefeng is not online now | 13:26 |
| yanyanhu | maybe we can have a discussion on this topic in irc tomorrow | 13:26 |
| Qiming | can sync with him later | 13:26 |
| yanyanhu | ok | 13:26 |
| yanyanhu | so if no update for work item, maybe you guys can give us some update about summit :) | 13:27 |
| yanyanhu | news | 13:27 |
| yanyanhu | Qiming, lixinhui elynn :) | 13:27 |
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| Qiming | okay | 13:27 |
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| Qiming | we delivered the two presentations, well done | 13:27 |
| yanyanhu | nice | 13:28 |
| Qiming | particularly the VM HA story, well received by the community wide vm-ha story team | 13:28 |
| Qiming | senlin may play an important role in that story | 13:28 |
| Qiming | and it is now an expectation from product working group | 13:28 |
| yanyanhu | cool. | 13:28 |
| Qiming | Adam et al are working on a protocol for VM HA events so that different OpenStack components can be easily integrated | 13:29 |
| yanyanhu | do need more cross-project effort to build the HA solution | 13:29 |
| Qiming | I asked him to leave a message when there is a draft for review | 13:29 |
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| yanyanhu | yes, that will very important for our listener | 13:29 |
| Qiming | they have openstack-ha meetings every Thursday afternoon (need double check), they want us to join it | 13:30 |
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| yanyanhu | if there is a standard for the format, that will be very helpful | 13:30 |
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| Qiming | could be Monday ... | 13:30 |
| yanyanhu | http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/#High_Availability_Meeting | 13:30 |
| yanyanhu | yes, maybe Monday | 13:31 |
| yanyanhu | elynn just found this link | 13:31 |
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| yanyanhu | will join it as well as listener | 13:31 |
| Qiming | time is not bad for UTC+8 | 13:31 |
| yanyanhu | yup | 13:31 |
| Qiming | next thread is about integration with Magnum | 13:31 |
| briancurtin | yanyanhu: sorry to interrupt, but just wanted to say openstacksdk 0.9.9 is now available: https://pypi.python.org/pypi/openstacksdk/0.9.9 | 13:32 |
| Qiming | I joined their design session, brought up this as an alternative to their new clustering feature | 13:32 |
| yanyanhu | briancurtin, great! | 13:32 |
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| yanyanhu | thank you so much for this quick verion bumping | 13:32 |
| Qiming | let's see if gate is using the latest version of sdk | 13:33 |
| yanyanhu | will test it tomorrow after I go back to office | 13:33 |
| yanyanhu | Qiming, yes | 13:33 |
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| Qiming | magnum team has some special requirements that they cannot get from Heat, seems falling completely into senlin's mission | 13:33 |
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| Qiming | Ton from the magnum team will have a call with me to understand the detailed requirements next week | 13:34 |
| yanyanhu | Qiming, yes, I noticed their discussion about node group in mailing list | 13:34 |
| Qiming | the third item is about integration with Tacker | 13:34 |
| yanyanhu | nice, will jion it as well | 13:34 |
| yanyanhu | s/jion/join | 13:34 |
| Qiming | Haiwei proposed a session with tacker time to start this | 13:34 |
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| elynn | Could you add me in that call? :) | 13:35 |
| Qiming | seems auto-scaling and auto-heaing are both features they want | 13:35 |
| yanyanhu | elynn, will let you know if the time is decided | 13:35 |
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| Qiming | sure, elynn, don't have the invitation yet, will forward | 13:35 |
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| elynn | Thanks Qiming yanyanhu | 13:36 |
| lixinhui | me2 plus | 13:36 |
| Qiming | they don't have a complete understanding about senlin, so we gave them an intro | 13:36 |
| yanyanhu | sure | 13:36 |
| Qiming | okay, lixinhui | 13:36 |
| lixinhui | :) | 13:36 |
| Qiming | the primary concern is about the invocation path: | 13:36 |
| Qiming | TOSCA->heat-translator->heat-template | 13:36 |
| Qiming | that means two things: they have to use Heat for consuming TOSCA input | 13:37 |
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| Qiming | and they have to use senlin indirectly through heat templates | 13:37 |
| Qiming | however, after confirmation with Sadhev, neither one should be a barrier | 13:38 |
| Qiming | heat-translator can be easily adapted to generate senlin profile/policy specs directly | 13:38 |
| yanyanhu | good news | 13:38 |
| Qiming | although the implementation is not there yet | 13:38 |
| yanyanhu | I believe there should be no barrier here for we can have lots of discussion with TOSCA team last year | 13:39 |
| yanyanhu | we already have | 13:39 |
| Qiming | then they understood ... for single stack cosisting of a combination of many different type of resources, they will continue to use Heat | 13:39 |
| Qiming | when they need to build a pool of resources, they will turn to senlin | 13:39 |
| Qiming | there may be some additional requirements for scaling pools of resources at a finer granularity | 13:40 |
| yanyanhu | yes, they can keep using heat as the orchestration engine. if they have requirement for resource pool, senlin cluster is a good choice | 13:40 |
| Qiming | doesn't look like a barrier though | 13:40 |
| yanyanhu | yes, won't be | 13:41 |
| Qiming | yes, we have more knobs for them to manage such pools | 13:41 |
| yanyanhu | right | 13:41 |
| yanyanhu | that why we started this project | 13:41 |
| Qiming | that was the 3rd item | 13:41 |
| Qiming | the next item is about baremetal support | 13:41 |
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| Qiming | some Huawei people joined out morning session, raising requirements on manageing edge devices, which are baremetal machines | 13:42 |
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| Qiming | we shared the existing BP (from yongli) and expressed our expectation to resource investments | 13:43 |
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| yanyanhu | https://blueprints.launchpad.net/senlin/+spec/scaling-bearmetal | 13:43 |
| Qiming | the gentleman promised that they will invest some people to get this done | 13:43 |
| elynn | I think we can find more from this link for what they are doing. https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/meghdwar | 13:43 |
| yanyanhu | hope somebody can pick it up :) | 13:43 |
| Qiming | I have just marked the BP as obsolete because we are not receiving requirements on it | 13:44 |
| Qiming | need to resume it now | 13:44 |
| yanyanhu | elynn, thanks for the link :) | 13:44 |
| yanyanhu | Qiming, yes | 13:44 |
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| Qiming | seems lixinhui and haiwei are both interested in the NFV story | 13:45 |
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| yanyanhu | actually baremetal cluster is a very common requirement for many use cases I think | 13:45 |
| Qiming | maybe we can create a thread for that | 13:45 |
| yanyanhu | sure | 13:45 |
| yanyanhu | will add this item to etherpad as well | 13:45 |
| yanyanhu | to make it easy to track | 13:45 |
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| Qiming | lixinhui, please amend if I'm missing anything | 13:45 |
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| lixinhui | no, your introduction is complete and perfect :) | 13:46 |
| yanyanhu | have the same feeling, haha | 13:46 |
| Qiming | such a nice girl, never say things bad about me | 13:46 |
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| lixinhui | :) | 13:46 |
| elynn | I think nova can manage bare metal, why do we need a bare metal cluster? | 13:46 |
| yanyanhu | LoL | 13:46 |
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| yanyanhu | elynn, maybe manging it through ironic is a better way | 13:47 |
| Qiming | managing a server is not the same thing as managing a cluster, right? | 13:47 |
| elynn | you mean we might need some special policy for bare metal ? | 13:48 |
| Qiming | we need profile type | 13:48 |
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| elynn | a profile type to use ironic ? | 13:48 |
| yanyanhu | yes, think so | 13:49 |
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| yanyanhu | and maybe for other barematel backends | 13:49 |
| yanyanhu | if needed | 13:49 |
| Qiming | their api is here: http://developer.openstack.org/api-ref/baremetal/ | 13:50 |
| elynn | I see .. | 13:50 |
| Qiming | you cannot treat it just as a different nova | 13:50 |
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| yanyanhu | ok, looks good | 13:52 |
| yanyanhu | any more comments here? | 13:52 |
| elynn | I thought ironic is a driver for nova, seems I was wrong. | 13:52 |
| yanyanhu | elynn, it is also a individual service I think | 13:52 |
| yanyanhu | just nova has virt driver for it | 13:53 |
| yanyanhu | I guess | 13:53 |
| Qiming | I think xuefeng is online, but he doesn't know how to join a channel, ... | 13:53 |
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| yanyanhu | ok... | 13:53 |
| yanyanhu | I saw he dropped | 13:53 |
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| yanyanhu | and didn't join back | 13:53 |
| yanyanhu | anyway, we have 6 mins left | 13:54 |
| Qiming | well, he left a message on code review , :D | 13:54 |
| yanyanhu | nice | 13:54 |
| yanyanhu | will check it | 13:54 |
| yanyanhu | #topic open discussion | 13:54 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: senlin)" | 13:54 | |
| Qiming | Patch Set 1: | 13:54 |
| Qiming | I am online.But I can't access #openstack-meeting now. | 13:54 |
| yanyanhu | ... | 13:54 |
| yanyanhu | maybe network problem | 13:55 |
| yanyanhu | the most interesting way to leave msg I've ever seen :) | 13:55 |
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| yanyanhu | ok, we have 4mins | 13:56 |
| yanyanhu | any more topics? | 13:56 |
| Qiming | no from me | 13:56 |
| yanyanhu | hi, xuefengliu, good to see U again :) | 13:56 |
| yanyanhu | ok, if not further item to discuss, we can release the channel a little bit earlier | 13:57 |
| yanyanhu | this time | 13:57 |
| Qiming | ok | 13:57 |
| xuefengliu | use phone now | 13:57 |
| yanyanhu | ... | 13:57 |
| yanyanhu | network is unstable | 13:57 |
| xuefengliu | network has some problem | 13:57 |
| yanyanhu | ok, thanks all you guys for joining | 13:57 |
| yanyanhu | xuefengliu, yes... | 13:57 |
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| yanyanhu | will end the meeting. Have a good night :) | 13:58 |
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| Ruijie_ | have a good one | 13:58 |
| yanyanhu | :) | 13:58 |
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| Qiming | bbl | 13:58 |
| yanyanhu | 88 | 13:58 |
| elynn | 8 | 13:58 |
| yanyanhu | #endmeeting | 13:58 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 13:58 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Nov 1 13:58:45 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 13:58 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/senlin/2016/senlin.2016-11-01-13.00.html | 13:58 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/senlin/2016/senlin.2016-11-01-13.00.txt | 13:58 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/senlin/2016/senlin.2016-11-01-13.00.log.html | 13:58 |
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| xuefengliu | only see. meeting topic:senlin.no other message | 13:59 |
| yanyanhu | xuefengliu, I also met this problem before :( | 13:59 |
| yanyanhu | ttyl | 13:59 |
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| lixinhui | 8 | 14:01 |
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| yuval | #startmeeting Karbor | 14:59 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Nov 1 14:59:14 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is yuval. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 14:59 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 14:59 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: Karbor)" | 14:59 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'karbor' | 14:59 |
| yuval | hello everybody | 14:59 |
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| saggi | Hi | 14:59 |
| edisonxy | hello | 14:59 |
| yuval | saggi: sorry, thought you are away. you go :) | 14:59 |
| saggi | Are we waiting on anyone? | 15:00 |
| yuval | xiangxinyong, zhonghua, yinwei? | 15:01 |
| yuval | chenying | 15:01 |
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| edisonxy | hello i am xiang | 15:01 |
| zhonghua | hi | 15:01 |
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| saggi | #topic Checkpoint API -- Partial Delete | 15:01 |
| saggi | I can't control the meeting | 15:01 |
| saggi | :) | 15:01 |
| saggi | yuval: You do it | 15:02 |
| yuval | #topic Checkpoint API -- Partial Delete | 15:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Checkpoint API -- Partial Delete (Meeting topic: Karbor)" | 15:02 | |
| saggi | Who suggested it? | 15:02 |
| yuval | chenying | 15:02 |
| edisonxy | chenying | 15:02 |
| zhonghua | chenying? | 15:02 |
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| saggi | I guess we'll postpone discussing it for next week | 15:03 |
| chenying1 | hi | 15:03 |
| saggi | Just in time | 15:03 |
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| saggi | chenying1: could you explain Partial Delete? | 15:04 |
| chenying1 | I submit this topic, just want to discuss whether we need consider this scene。 | 15:04 |
| chenying1 | saggi I have described the scene in the irc meeting wiki. | 15:05 |
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| zhonghua | The user create a plan with several volumes. These volumes don't have any relationships. | 15:06 |
| zhonghua | Add these resources to one plan, the user just want to protect them at the same time point. | 15:06 |
| zhonghua | So he have a request that operating the backup copies in one checkpoint separately. | 15:06 |
| saggi | I don't think so. Checkpoints are read only once they are created. We might suggest creating a new checkpoint which is a clone of parts of an existing checkpoint but I don't think it's anything near the top use cases we want to support | 15:06 |
| saggi | for at least the next 8 months | 15:06 |
| zhonghua | https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/Karbor | 15:06 |
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| saggi | We have a lot more pending issues | 15:07 |
| saggi | IMHO | 15:07 |
| saggi | So unless we see real demand for it | 15:07 |
| yuval | +1 | 15:07 |
| saggi | I think we should put it on the back burner | 15:07 |
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| zhonghua | saggi: need we consider it later? | 15:09 |
| chenying1 | This scene is from the a private Cloud product. | 15:09 |
| yuval | #topic Openstack Barcelona | 15:09 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Openstack Barcelona (Meeting topic: Karbor)" | 15:09 | |
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| saggi | yuval, zhonghua-lee edisonxy and I were in Openstack Summit last week | 15:10 |
| saggi | We had a lot of productive talks | 15:11 |
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| saggi | But it was too bad that some of you couldn't make it and participate | 15:11 |
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| saggi | https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Design_Summit/Ocata/Etherpads#Karbor | 15:12 |
| saggi | We summed up the meetings here | 15:12 |
| saggi | But I think that for now going over: https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/karbor-ocata-roadmap | 15:12 |
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| saggi | We've highlighted things that we want to achieve in the Okata cycle | 15:13 |
| saggi | First, I'd like to remind everyone that it's a short cycle. | 15:13 |
| saggi | It ends in February | 15:13 |
| saggi | So there isn't a lot of time | 15:13 |
| TommyLikeHu_ | yes, cinder had blocked most of the specs~ | 15:13 |
| Chenzeng | saggi:hope for your sharing,sending an email is a good idea | 15:13 |
| saggi | Chenzeng: I will, I'm sorry I was very ill the last few days. | 15:14 |
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| saggi | Second, our goal for Newton was to be stable | 15:14 |
| saggi | Which we failed to achieve | 15:14 |
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| saggi | We have a lot of problems that prevent even the most common use cases from working | 15:15 |
| saggi | We need to hold back on new features and start fixing bugs. | 15:15 |
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| chenying1 | Some patches about operationengine need be reviewed and to be merged. Now the operationengine doesn't work in karbor's master branch. | 15:16 |
| saggi | chenying1 email me the links | 15:16 |
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| yuval | chenying1: what do you mean 'doesnt work'? did a specific patch break it? | 15:17 |
| zhonghua | chenying1: yeah, there are many patches are waiting for merging. | 15:17 |
| saggi | yuval, and I will make a detailed plan on what exactly it means. But first we need to make sure everyone can run and test everything, including the UI. | 15:17 |
| chenying1 | saggi OK I will send a etherpad link. some patches have adressed there. | 15:17 |
| saggi | chenying1, +1 | 15:17 |
| saggi | The things that are marked in bold are things that were accepted as part of the Okata cycle. It's still not set in stone. You can comment on the etherpad just make sure to put your name so we know who uses what color. | 15:18 |
| saggi | Just don't mark things bold | 15:18 |
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| saggi | Just add +1\-1 | 15:18 |
| chenying1 | 'doesnt work' means that karbor cann't run scheduled protection plan. | 15:19 |
| yuval | chenying1: I understand, I was asking if a specific patch broke it | 15:19 |
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| chenying1 | yuval: Yes not only one. several patches. | 15:20 |
| Chenzeng | saggi:I think there are some issues about taskflow used in protect service to re-consider. | 15:20 |
| yuval | Chenzeng: what do you mean? | 15:20 |
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| saggi | Chenzeng: ? | 15:22 |
| Chenzeng | yuval:for example,we don't use the parallel executor of taskflow | 15:22 |
| chenying1 | Yuval What's your plan about the new design patches? IMO we need review and merge them ASAP. If there are some situation we have not think about clearly, we could submit new patch to fix it. | 15:23 |
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| Chenzeng | yuval,:and some other things,I will send an email to describe details | 15:24 |
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| saggi | yuval: Would you like to talk about the worksession we had on the subject? | 15:24 |
| yuval | chenying1: we have discussed that in the summit. The idea for ocata is to have that api for protect operation, while restore operation is unable to use such api because of heat | 15:24 |
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| yuval | chenying1: we were talking about removing heat, but until then, restore cannot have a pre and post for each resource | 15:25 |
| chenying1 | Ok I need update the message to some verdors. They are developing the plugins based on the new interfaces. | 15:26 |
| yuval | chenying1: goal for ocata is to stablize the plugin api | 15:27 |
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| saggi | chenying1: we already spoke about it that we don't say that the internal APIs are stable until we hit v 1.0 | 15:29 |
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| saggi | OK | 15:31 |
| chenying1 | saggi we also need think about this, some verdors are planing to develop the integration plugins. | 15:31 |
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| saggi | chenying1: we already had this conversation and we agreed that we can't do that. That it makes sense to design supported interfaces properly | 15:32 |
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| edisonxy | yuval: does it mean your patches for protection service will not be merged in ocata? | 15:33 |
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| yuval | edisonxy: they will, but further changes are required to them | 15:33 |
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| edisonxy | understand. | 15:34 |
| chenying1 | So the southbound interface of karbor is high priority. | 15:34 |
| saggi | It is | 15:34 |
| yuval | yep | 15:34 |
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| saggi | We have been asking for comments for weeks | 15:34 |
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| edisonxy | yuval: we want to meege your patches asap | 15:35 |
| saggi | zhonghua-lee, edisonxy: How was the summit for you? | 15:35 |
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| chenying1 | about the southbound interface of karbor I think we need gather more solutions form backup software vendors. | 15:36 |
| edisonxy | yuval: and make some further modification | 15:36 |
| edisonxy | saggi: very well. we learned a lot of things and people. | 15:37 |
| yuval | I feel the same way. It was great you meet you edisonxy and zhonghua-lee as well! | 15:40 |
| yuval | *to meet | 15:40 |
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| saggi | Just to sum things up we need to direct our efforts better. Getting stable and staying there is top priority for Okata. We can't afford to miss that deadline. We want to be able to say we are stable for Boston and that means being stable for Okata. | 15:42 |
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| yuval | #topic open discussion | 15:44 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: Karbor)" | 15:44 | |
| saggi | Any last thoughts? | 15:45 |
| yuval | #endmeeting | 15:47 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 15:47 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Nov 1 15:47:19 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 15:47 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/karbor/2016/karbor.2016-11-01-14.59.html | 15:47 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/karbor/2016/karbor.2016-11-01-14.59.txt | 15:47 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/karbor/2016/karbor.2016-11-01-14.59.log.html | 15:47 |
| saggi | Thanks everybody | 15:47 |
| edisonxy | bye | 15:47 |
| yuval | bye | 15:48 |
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| mmedvede | #startmeeting third-party | 17:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Nov 1 17:01:13 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is mmedvede. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 17:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 17:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: third-party)" | 17:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'third_party' | 17:01 |
| ja3 | moin moin misha | 17:01 |
| mmedvede | hey ja3 ! | 17:01 |
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| mmedvede | did you go to summit? | 17:01 |
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| ja3 | yes | 17:02 |
| mmedvede | I think I saw your presentation, but maybe you have a double | 17:02 |
| ja3 | evil twin | 17:02 |
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| mmedvede | #link agenda https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/ThirdParty#2016-11-15_1700_UTC | 17:04 |
| mmedvede | #topic Jenkins Security-170 | 17:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Jenkins Security-170 (Meeting topic: third-party)" | 17:04 | |
| mmedvede | there are a few patches up right now that are all related to making puppet-jenkins work, and they seemed to have stalled | 17:05 |
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| mmedvede | #link install specific version of Jenkins https://review.openstack.org/#/c/366803/ | 17:06 |
| mmedvede | #link disable security feature https://review.openstack.org/#/c/334400/ | 17:06 |
| mmedvede | this I do not think would go in ^ | 17:07 |
| mmedvede | but we should to try to push on: | 17:07 |
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| mmedvede | #link allow customized jenkins configuration https://review.openstack.org/#/c/262787/ | 17:07 |
| ja3 | Is Ramy still working any of them? | 17:08 |
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| mmedvede | not sure, there is not much to improve on the last one | 17:10 |
| mmedvede | I did bump it, maybe some more people would review | 17:10 |
| ja3 | do you ever attend infra meetings? | 17:10 |
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| mmedvede | ja3: yes | 17:11 |
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| ja3 | I don't remember if ramy had core in infra, but seems like this needs an infra core to nudge it along. | 17:11 |
| ja3 | I'm actually impressed that Isaac hasn't given up after 10 months with this in the queue. Not a great optic, that. | 17:12 |
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| mmedvede | people forget, and are busy. So some patches get forgotten | 17:13 |
| mmedvede | I wonder if a lot of people are still on post Summit vacation | 17:14 |
| ja3 | well ideally someone AT the summit would have met to get attn on things like this. I admit I was not looking much at infra's track, to the degree they had one. | 17:15 |
| mmedvede | #topic Open Discussion | 17:15 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: third-party)" | 17:15 | |
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| ja3 | I don't have anything really | 17:16 |
| mmedvede | me either | 17:16 |
| mmedvede | ja3: great presentation, by the way | 17:17 |
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| mmedvede | anyone else around? | 17:17 |
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| mmedvede | ja3: thanks for stopping by | 17:19 |
| ja3 | it is _so_ weird having people watch pres recordings. still not used to being a youtube "star" | 17:19 |
| mmedvede | hehe | 17:20 |
| ja3 | see you in 2 weeks there misha. | 17:20 |
| mmedvede | hold on, would post a link here | 17:20 |
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| mmedvede | #link ja3 Summit presentation https://youtu.be/aAKpRI1vjeo?t=6s | 17:21 |
| mmedvede | tangentially related to CI | 17:21 |
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| mmedvede | #endmeeting | 17:21 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 17:21 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Nov 1 17:21:44 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 17:21 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/third_party/2016/third_party.2016-11-01-17.01.html | 17:21 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/third_party/2016/third_party.2016-11-01-17.01.txt | 17:21 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/third_party/2016/third_party.2016-11-01-17.01.log.html | 17:21 |
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| * ayoung sneaks in and turns up the volume on the mike | 17:57 | |
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| * stevemar tosses the mic out the window | 17:59 | |
| stevemar | ping ajayaa, amakarov, ayoung, breton, browne, crinkle, claudiub, davechen, david8hu, dolphm, dstanek, edmondsw, gagehugo, gyee, henrynash, hogepodge, htruta, jamielennox, jaugustine, joesavak, jorge_munoz, knikolla, lbragstad, MaxPC, morgan, nishaYadav, nkinder, notmorgan, raildo, ravelar, rodrigods, rderose, roxanaghe, samleon, samueldmq, shaleh, stevemar, tsymanczyk, topol, vivekd, wanghong, xek, StefanPaetowJisc | 17:59 |
| stevemar | 17:59 | |
| ayoung | HA! | 17:59 |
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| ayoung | KEYSTONERS ASSEMBLE! | 17:59 |
| browne | o/ | 17:59 |
| stevemar | #startmeeting keystone | 18:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Nov 1 18:00:01 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is stevemar. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 18:00 |
| crinkle | o/ | 18:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 18:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'keystone' | 18:00 |
| stevemar | boom right at 2! | 18:00 |
| lamt | o/ | 18:00 |
| knikolla | o/ just in time as i finished reading the proposed specs. | 18:00 |
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| bknudson | hi | 18:00 |
| henrynash | (assembling) | 18:00 |
| stevemar | hey its bknudson! | 18:00 |
| gagehugo | o/ | 18:00 |
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| jaugustine | o/ | 18:00 |
| * stevemar goes up and gives bknudson a big hug | 18:00 | |
| stevemar | we've missed you | 18:00 |
| * bknudson hugs back | 18:01 | |
| notbreton | o/ | 18:01 |
| stevemar | we've got team at&t in the house too, lamt jaugustine and gagehugo | 18:01 |
| gagehugo | :o | 18:01 |
| stevemar | notbreton: ?! are you turning into morgan? | 18:01 |
| samueldmq | hi all | 18:01 |
| notbreton | stevemar: nah, I just have to irc via browser :( | 18:02 |
| * stevemar pokes lbragstad dstanek and dolphm with a stick | 18:02 | |
| stevemar | damn rackers | 18:02 |
| stevemar | lets get going | 18:02 |
| stevemar | #topic announcements | 18:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "announcements (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:02 | |
| stevemar | breton is core! | 18:02 |
| gagehugo | Grats! | 18:02 |
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| notbreton | yey | 18:02 |
| stevemar | thanks for all the reviews and high quality feedback! | 18:03 |
| lamt | grats | 18:03 |
| knikolla | congrats! | 18:03 |
| bknudson | congratulations | 18:03 |
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| jaugustine | congrats ! | 18:03 |
| lbragstad | o/ | 18:03 |
| stevemar | \o | 18:03 |
| stevemar | breton: notbreton let me know if i forgot to flip any switches | 18:03 |
| henrynash | congratualtions!!! | 18:04 |
| stevemar | thanks for agreeing to guard the gate :) | 18:04 |
| ayoung | Excellent | 18:04 |
| topol | o/ | 18:04 |
| topol | congrats! | 18:04 |
| stevemar | :) | 18:04 |
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| stevemar | next announcement, i still don't have a draft of our turtle, which ayoung has nicked stoney | 18:04 |
| stevemar | as soon as i get it, i'll forward it to the ML | 18:05 |
| ayoung | #action ayoung Draw Stoney | 18:05 |
| stevemar | #action ayoung Draw Stoney | 18:05 |
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| stevemar | #topic spec reviews! | 18:05 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "spec reviews! (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:05 | |
| ayoung | everyone see the rought sketch>? | 18:05 |
| stevemar | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/q/project:openstack/keystone-specs+status:open | 18:06 |
| ayoung | #link https://twitter.com/admiyoung/status/789179752531668992 | 18:06 |
| stevemar | there are a few specs which were deemed a high priority as the summit, we should look at landing some of these | 18:06 |
| ayoung | sorry | 18:06 |
| stevemar | ayoung: s'all good | 18:06 |
| stevemar | i've highlighted a few in the meeting etherpad | 18:07 |
| stevemar | currently we only have 4 specs targeting ocata, one of which is already implemented (thanks rderose!) | 18:07 |
| stevemar | i'm hoping for a few more to be approved (properties for projects, PCI x 2, MFA) | 18:08 |
| notbreton | haven't I proposed fernet backends to O? | 18:08 |
| stevemar | while we have a full room, is there a particular spec folks want to chat about? | 18:08 |
| stevemar | notbreton: you did, i approved it (since it was already backlogged), see http://specs.openstack.org/openstack/keystone-specs/ | 18:08 |
| ayoung | Can we agree to not bikeshed on the specs, and instead accept imperfect ones that can be corrected as we learn more? | 18:09 |
| stevemar | i agree that the spec will never reflect the final implementaiton and am willing to not bikeshed on certain topics. but some need to be a bit more baked than others | 18:09 |
| samueldmq | breton: notbreton: congrats, well done | 18:09 |
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| ayoung | stevemar, legitimate concerns are legitimate | 18:10 |
| samueldmq | stevemar: ++ | 18:11 |
| stevemar | would folks prefer to just review the specs? we can skip to the next topic | 18:11 |
| stevemar | i figured now is a good time to ask the spec authors some quesitons in real time | 18:11 |
| samueldmq | I just would like to avoid facing conceptual issues when implementing | 18:11 |
| dstanek | stevemar: you have to poke harder next time | 18:11 |
| stevemar | :) | 18:12 |
| ayoung | properties for projects is that a good idea? | 18:12 |
| notbreton | do i need a spec to store token fernet keys in credential_api? | 18:12 |
| lbragstad | samueldmq most of the time you can get around that by implementing as you write the spec | 18:12 |
| notbreton | ayoung: yes | 18:12 |
| stevemar | ayoung: we've had almost all operators come to us asking for it | 18:12 |
| stevemar | "extras" doesn't work for them | 18:12 |
| ayoung | stevemar, I know, but still not convinced. | 18:12 |
| notbreton | everyone now does it via extras | 18:12 |
| bknudson | should have known when we started adding security to identity it would be an unending request for more features. | 18:12 |
| samueldmq | lbragstad: yes indeed, that helps | 18:12 |
| notbreton | which is bad | 18:12 |
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| gagehugo | would be nice to get away from extras | 18:13 |
| samueldmq | stevemar: what specs ? the ones in backlog ("Ocata approved specs") ? | 18:13 |
| ayoung | this is like quotas. It falls down on the details | 18:13 |
| samueldmq | stevemar: the ones you want us to review | 18:13 |
| stevemar | samueldmq: the ones highlighted in the meeting agenda | 18:13 |
| ayoung | I've held off, but that one is making my -2 stamp itchy | 18:13 |
| bknudson | if you have a good reason to -2 then please do it | 18:13 |
| samueldmq | stevemar: thanks | 18:13 |
| bknudson | otherwise we don't know what the reason is | 18:14 |
| ayoung | I'm tempted to say that anything they are putting in Keystone should go into swift instead | 18:14 |
| stevemar | ayoung: ? project properties? | 18:14 |
| stevemar | in swift? | 18:14 |
| ayoung | stevemar, yes | 18:14 |
| ayoung | stevemar, yes | 18:14 |
| stevemar | o_O | 18:14 |
| ayoung | stevemar, swift is where you put unstructured data | 18:14 |
| ayoung | we do a lot of that in Tripleo | 18:15 |
| stevemar | link? | 18:15 |
| ayoung | sure... | 18:15 |
| ayoung | http://hardysteven.blogspot.com/2016/08/tripleo-deploy-artifacts-and-puppet.html | 18:15 |
| ayoung | Also, Heat templates tend to have this kind of stuff.... | 18:15 |
| stevemar | you're also now telling folks they require swift ;) | 18:16 |
| ayoung | Keystone, in general, should not have project specific data in it. | 18:16 |
| ayoung | stevemar, no, I am telling them that there are alternatives to putting it in Keystone | 18:16 |
| ayoung | and am challenging the notion that Keystone should be a RDBMS for the rest of OpenStack | 18:16 |
| notbreton | it's not actually unstructured data. It's key-value, where both key and value are ascii. Used for aggregation, for example. | 18:17 |
| ayoung | stevemar, for example, Post Orchestration Processing lead to the whole Vendor-Data spec for Nova | 18:17 |
| ayoung | billing codes belongs with cloud kitty | 18:17 |
| ayoung | Now, I agree we need better notifications, but that is true anyway | 18:18 |
| stevemar | ayoung: i'm still not getting how i'm supposed to use swift for this? create an object for every project or something | 18:18 |
| ayoung | notbreton, if we really don't think Keystone can even correctly store Quota data, how can we say it should store aggregates? | 18:18 |
| ayoung | stevemar, yes | 18:19 |
| ayoung | stevemar, if the data is really unstructured, use swift. If it is specific to some subsystem, like billing, push off to billing | 18:19 |
| ayoung | etc | 18:19 |
| ayoung | I can't think of one example where Keystone is the best option. Anyone care to come up with one? | 18:20 |
| stevemar | it's metadata about a resource owned by keystone, if i delete the resource, the metadata will be cleaned up, not the case if i push it off | 18:20 |
| ayoung | stevemar two bad things you said | 18:21 |
| ayoung | one metadata is not meta. It is just data | 18:21 |
| stevemar | agreed, but alright | 18:21 |
| ayoung | and 2 we already have notifications. it is up to the remote services to listen for them | 18:21 |
| ayoung | and clean up. They need to do so anyway | 18:21 |
| ayoung | That is workflow, and there are already workflow engines galore | 18:21 |
| ayoung | Heat, and Mistral and Ansible oh my | 18:22 |
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| ayoung | So, I'm tempted to push back on this one | 18:22 |
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| stevemar | ayoung: we also have 2 precedents now, nova stores metadata related to servers, and now you're suggesting swift for unstructured data | 18:22 |
| notbreton | ayoung: I think keystone can correctly store quota limits data :p | 18:22 |
| notbreton | ayoung: but lets talk about it later, after I post to ML. | 18:23 |
| ayoung | notbreton, of course it can. But yet, each time when we explain to the other projects what it means to do it, they balk. Happend at just about every summit so far | 18:23 |
| bknudson | we should create microservices so that there can be more experimentation | 18:23 |
| stevemar | ayoung: who implemented the work for the tripleo artifacts stuff, shardy? | 18:23 |
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| ayoung | stevemar, possibly, or someone else on the team at his direction | 18:24 |
| stevemar | i'll be happy to add him and someone from nova to the review | 18:24 |
| stevemar | also, the issue of consistency across openstack projects comes up | 18:24 |
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| ayoung | stevemar, I'd like to see better laid out justifications. I'm not holding it up, but I am also far from convinced | 18:25 |
| ayoung | by "projects" here I assume you mean "services" | 18:25 |
| stevemar | thats fine. gagehugo lamt jaugustine you guys proposed the spec and i've done all the talking :P | 18:25 |
| stevemar | ayoung: correct | 18:25 |
| ayoung | and, I don't think we are going to get that, and are, in fact likely to get conflicts | 18:25 |
| gagehugo | ok | 18:25 |
| notbreton | if many things from openstack need metadata, maybe there should be a service for it | 18:25 |
| ayoung | what if both nova and neutron have a key names "network" for exdample | 18:25 |
| stevemar | ayoung: nova and cinder do it the metadata way | 18:25 |
| notbreton | projects needs metadata, servers need metadata, cinder stuff need metadata | 18:25 |
| gagehugo | ^ | 18:26 |
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| notbreton | can we have metadata-as-a-service? | 18:26 |
| ayoung | I've voiced my concern. We can move on. | 18:26 |
| thingee | notbreton that has existed | 18:26 |
| stevemar | notbreton: this is going back to your quota, we need a centralized service topic? :P | 18:26 |
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| stevemar | a wild thingee appears | 18:26 |
| stevemar | thingee: what existed? | 18:27 |
| ayoung | THink of "project" as a lable on others remote data instead of something that should be stored in Keystone | 18:27 |
| notbreton | thingee: we need to talk about quote limits btw | 18:27 |
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| thingee | a central place for metadata | 18:27 |
| stevemar | thingee: what was it called? | 18:27 |
| ayoung | thingee, its called Swift | 18:27 |
| thingee | I believe that was the graffiti project | 18:27 |
| ayoung | :) | 18:27 |
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| bknudson | https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Graffiti | 18:28 |
| stevemar | https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Graffiti | 18:28 |
| stevemar | dammit bknudson | 18:28 |
| thingee | https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Graffiti | 18:28 |
| bknudson | it does seem like every project has metadata | 18:28 |
| ayoung | So, a rule of thumb is, if when creating data for a remote machine, you have to define new datatypes, you are probably going to far. | 18:28 |
| thingee | figured I should link it too :) | 18:28 |
| bknudson | at least we're all looking at the same thing | 18:28 |
| lbragstad | found the link - https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Graffiti | 18:28 |
| lbragstad | ;) | 18:28 |
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| stevemar | ayoung please document your concerns in the review | 18:29 |
| thingee | I'll email the dev ML with this link too, just in case. | 18:29 |
| stevemar | :) | 18:29 |
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| ayoung | stevemar, wilco | 18:29 |
| stevemar | we can continue to discuss it there | 18:29 |
| stevemar | any other specs that folks want to talk about | 18:29 |
| stevemar | ? | 18:30 |
| * ayoung on RBAC | 18:30 | |
| stevemar | i think the MFA and PCI notification specs are easily approved | 18:30 |
| ayoung | ++ | 18:30 |
| gagehugo | what about the expired users one? | 18:30 |
| ayoung | allow_expired is, as they say around here, wicked impohtant | 18:30 |
| stevemar | "non-admin access to TOTP credentials" -- i need to see APIs there, it need to be baked a bit longer | 18:30 |
| stevemar | gagehugo: so that one still confuses me a bit | 18:31 |
| gagehugo | how so? | 18:31 |
| stevemar | i don't like the fact that we've now got "disabled" and "expired" for users :( | 18:31 |
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| stevemar | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/383832/ | 18:31 |
| gagehugo | I don't either, but currently someone can be locked out and their enabled flag is still true | 18:32 |
| ayoung | stevemar, would we treat them differently? | 18:32 |
| ayoung | I think we would when validating a remote operation | 18:32 |
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| stevemar | ayoung: i suppose we should treat them differently. | 18:32 |
| ayoung | like: an expired user can't do a new operation, but if they created a trust, that trust should still be valid | 18:32 |
| stevemar | if i'm expired and not disabled, then resetting my password should work | 18:32 |
| stevemar | if i'm expired and disabled, resetting my password should not work | 18:32 |
| ayoung | ++ | 18:32 |
| gagehugo | ++ | 18:32 |
| notbreton | lets just have it as boolean without any functionality | 18:33 |
| stevemar | both should fail on other APIs | 18:33 |
| stevemar | which i think we do | 18:33 |
| stevemar | gagehugo: did you get the API from an existing source? or make that up? | 18:34 |
| stevemar | the bit here: password_expires_at={operator}:{timestamp} | 18:34 |
| notbreton | if it is needed for accounting and audit purposes, it can just be for information, and user's abilities should not depend on it | 18:34 |
| gagehugo | that is made up | 18:34 |
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| gagehugo | well | 18:34 |
| stevemar | gagehugo: would be nice to get the API working group to OK it then | 18:34 |
| gagehugo | that bit came from another example that is linked in the comments | 18:35 |
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| stevemar | or if we have another service that already does something similar, we should do it like that | 18:35 |
| stevemar | oh? | 18:35 |
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| stevemar | oh i see | 18:35 |
| stevemar | http://specs.openstack.org/openstack/api-wg/guidelines/pagination_filter_sort.html#filtering | 18:35 |
| gagehugo | yeah that | 18:35 |
| stevemar | cool | 18:35 |
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| stevemar | gagehugo: add that to the spec so dummies like me don't waste meeting time :) | 18:36 |
| stevemar | asking silly questions | 18:36 |
| gagehugo | will do | 18:36 |
| stevemar | i gotta go over this one again, but i think its OK | 18:36 |
| gagehugo | oh I did have it, but lamt removed it :o | 18:36 |
| stevemar | its the best we can do to fulfill the PCI requirement of seeing all the expired users | 18:36 |
| gagehugo | I'll put it back | 18:36 |
| lamt | :( | 18:36 |
| stevemar | tsk tsk lamt | 18:37 |
| stevemar | or creating a notification for them anyway | 18:37 |
| notbreton | so does anybody even use notifications? | 18:37 |
| ayoung | notbreton, ceilometer | 18:37 |
| stevemar | ayoung: i think he means in production | 18:38 |
| notbreton | yes | 18:38 |
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| stevemar | notbreton: i believe mfisch tried but ended up disabling them cause of rabbit | 18:38 |
| ayoung | stevemar, notbreton as far as the devstack setup, that is the only service that is registered to read Keystone events | 18:38 |
| * notbreton sighs | 18:38 | |
| ayoung | You need to tune it. We produce a lot of events | 18:38 |
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| ayoung | there are config options to remove notifications for token validations and rejections and such | 18:39 |
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| stevemar | you can use the non-CADF notifications, they are the default actually | 18:40 |
| stevemar | and not get bombarded | 18:40 |
| stevemar | with auth requests | 18:40 |
| ayoung | Ask the operators who use it in production beyond that, but RDO and RH OSP enable them for ceilometer. | 18:40 |
| lamt | it is to sate the security office's auditing demands in case they want it. Probably will need to tune that. | 18:40 |
| * ayoung likes use of the word 'sate' | 18:40 | |
| ayoung | can I talk abouit RBAC now? | 18:41 |
| stevemar | yeah | 18:41 |
| stevemar | #topic Token Verify Role Check | 18:41 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Token Verify Role Check (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:41 | |
| ayoung | OK...so I think I have a very good, keystonesque way to do what we tried to do with dynamic policy | 18:41 |
| ayoung | I've written the spec quickly since the summit, so please ask questions | 18:41 |
| ayoung | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/391624/ | 18:42 |
| stevemar | i haven't reviewed it yet :( | 18:42 |
| ayoung | here is the TLDR | 18:42 |
| stevemar | looks like lbragstad has | 18:42 |
| ayoung | do the role check inside of Keystone during token validation | 18:42 |
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| ayoung | eseentially, split the Role check off the rest of policy | 18:42 |
| bknudson | how does keystone what role a user needs? | 18:42 |
| ayoung | the existing policy enforcement in the service specific code stays there | 18:42 |
| ayoung | bknudson, based on the URL pattern | 18:43 |
| ayoung | bknudson, the exampel I used was modify server | 18:43 |
| ayoung | curl | 18:43 |
| ayoung | -H "X-Auth-Token: 3d0b48b7bcdd" \ | 18:43 |
| ayoung | -H "X-Subject-Token: adb5c708a55f" \ | 18:43 |
| ayoung | -H "Content-type: application/json" \ | 18:43 |
| ayoung | -H "X-Request-URL: https://nova1:8774/v2.1/2497f6​/servers/​83cbdc \ | 18:43 |
| ayoung | GET \ | 18:43 |
| ayoung | https://keystone1:35357/v3/auth/tokens?service=identity&verb=PUT&nocatalog=True | 18:43 |
| ayoung | the request URL gets passed to keystone | 18:43 |
| ayoung | keystone then matches it agains: | 18:43 |
| ayoung | ET /v2.1/​{tenant_id}​/servers/​{server_id}​ | 18:44 |
| ayoung | GET /v2.1/​{tenant_id}​/servers/​{server_id}​ | 18:44 |
| ayoung | as well as the service=identity part | 18:44 |
| ayoung | er...that is a type | 18:44 |
| ayoung | shoudl be | 18:44 |
| ayoung | service=compute | 18:44 |
| ayoung | we use the implied roles mechanism to link from roles to the url Patterns | 18:45 |
| bknudson | so there's a table of operation+URL to roles? | 18:45 |
| ayoung | bknudson, yes | 18:45 |
| ayoung | 2 tables | 18:45 |
| lbragstad | so keystone will ultimately own a subset of the policy? | 18:45 |
| ayoung | one for the url patterns, and then the existing role inference rules, but also allowing the patterns | 18:45 |
| ayoung | lbragstad, the services will have their own rbac files, but they will get uploaded to Keystone at startup | 18:46 |
| ayoung | the default rule will be role = Member | 18:46 |
| lbragstad | so there will be some duplicate data between what keystone owns and the policies of each service | 18:46 |
| ayoung | lbragstad, not a lot. | 18:46 |
| lbragstad | but some | 18:46 |
| lbragstad | do we have a way to keep them in sync? | 18:46 |
| ayoung | lbragstad, the duplication will be more between the rbac rules and the matching of the URLs for the WSGI processing | 18:46 |
| ayoung | for example, in Keystone, we could easily tag the roles required in the routers.py Mapping setup | 18:47 |
| lbragstad | (ie. policy check in keystone passes but it fails the service policy check because the service policy has since been updated) | 18:47 |
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| ayoung | lbragstad, so, this is limiting it to only the role check. If a service first said an API should be allwed by, say, Member, but decides that it shoudl really be Admin then, yes, you would need to update the Keystone rules | 18:48 |
| lbragstad | keystone will be in charge of checking that the roles associated to a specific scope can do a specific action, yeah? | 18:48 |
| ayoung | lbragstad, right | 18:48 |
| stevemar | the only issue here is the same one for all the other changes for policy and authz. they need to be backward compatible, and it's going to be like moving a mountain (pushing changes across all the projects) | 18:48 |
| ayoung | that check happens during the token validation call, after the exisitng logic in the token provider | 18:48 |
| lbragstad | what's the benefit of keeping that check in the service if keystone is going to do it? | 18:48 |
| ayoung | stevemar, so, it is backwards compat | 18:48 |
| ayoung | that is why I am dancinfg with glee | 18:49 |
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| ayoung | lbragstad, the services provide the default file, not checked in the services | 18:49 |
| ayoung | it is checked by middleware | 18:49 |
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| ayoung | we can make a first cut for them, but we can also keep them in a separate repo if we want | 18:49 |
| ayoung | if we make the default Rule Member, and say Admin implies member, everything today still works | 18:49 |
| lbragstad | ok - so if keystone is going to check the role policy in token validation - what other policy checks are needed? | 18:50 |
| ayoung | also, this is not enabled by default | 18:50 |
| ayoung | we give some transition time | 18:50 |
| ayoung | lbragstad, the scope check still happens in code | 18:50 |
| ayoung | or anything Neutron specific, for example | 18:50 |
| ayoung | we don't do anything *but* the role check in Keystone | 18:50 |
| lbragstad | scope as in - keystonemiddleware needs to check that a specific user can do a specific thing on a specific project? | 18:50 |
| ayoung | maybe a few flags for keystone like things suych as is_admin_project | 18:50 |
| ayoung | lbragstad, right: check that the project in the token m atches the project for the resource (VM, network etc) | 18:51 |
| ayoung | so...beat up the spec, ask quesitons. I might even put a FAQ section right into the spec | 18:52 |
| ayoung | I think this is it. | 18:52 |
| ayoung | It punts on some of the hard policy questions like the Moon project was trying to solve | 18:52 |
| ayoung | we won't be responsibole for instance specific policy, for example | 18:53 |
| ayoung | Oh, I also punted on endpoint specific, but we could support that in a future spec | 18:53 |
| lbragstad | for that you'd need to do all the policy checks in keystone - i would think (which seemed like what moon was doing) | 18:53 |
| ayoung | lbragstad, I have to admit, alot of this came from evaluating what Moon was doing. I tried to strike a balance | 18:54 |
| ayoung | Moon could not actually do what they wanted | 18:54 |
| ayoung | by making their check in middleware, they lost the ability to query the database | 18:54 |
| ayoung | they only had the URL and reuqest to work with | 18:54 |
| ayoung | so no ownership check, for example | 18:54 |
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| stevemar | this is a massive change and definitely needs eyes on it | 18:54 |
| ayoung | in order to do that, you need to do it after the resource is fetched from the database | 18:54 |
| ayoung | stevemar, agreed, which is why I wanted to talk through it | 18:54 |
| lbragstad | ayoung have you run this by any operators? | 18:55 |
| ayoung | stevemar, it also solves the question of how we tell Horizon what role is needed | 18:55 |
| ayoung | lbragstad, not yet | 18:55 |
| ayoung | lbragstad, It hit me on THursday, and then a second wave of realization since you first read it | 18:55 |
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| stevemar | i need to actually read it | 18:55 |
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| ayoung | OK, I surrender the conch for now | 18:56 |
| stevemar | henrynash should weigh in on it too ^ | 18:56 |
| ayoung | stevemar, ++ | 18:56 |
| henrynash | I will (when I have read it too)! | 18:56 |
| ayoung | stevemar, I meant to add in an example of how domain specific roles could be used here | 18:56 |
| stevemar | the last item on the agenda is a quickie | 18:56 |
| stevemar | #topic allow expired | 18:57 |
| ayoung | IE; we won't allow project specific policy, but we might allow domain specific policy... | 18:57 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "allow expired (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:57 | |
| stevemar | jamielennox is asking for reviews: | 18:57 |
| stevemar | Keystone: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/382098/ | 18:57 |
| stevemar | keystoneclient: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/382099/ | 18:57 |
| * dstanek needs to spend some time digesting this | 18:57 | |
| stevemar | oh also, if someone wants to reply to the mailing list: http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack/2016-October/017912.html go ahead and do so | 18:57 |
| stevemar | i'm also out this [thursday -> sunday] just a heaads up | 18:58 |
| ayoung | Evenbrite signup for PTG is up | 18:58 |
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| stevemar | oh nice | 18:58 |
| ayoung | #link https://www.eventbrite.com/e/project-teams-gathering-tickets-27549298694 | 18:59 |
| ayoung | I think they are limiting to 500. | 18:59 |
| lbragstad | total?! | 18:59 |
| stevemar | thanks everyone! | 18:59 |
| stevemar | lbragstad: yes, total | 18:59 |
| gagehugo | wow | 18:59 |
| stevemar | #endmeeting | 18:59 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 18:59 | |
| ayoung | TIcket are transferrable up to Feb 14 | 19:00 |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Nov 1 18:59:58 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 19:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2016/keystone.2016-11-01-18.00.html | 19:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2016/keystone.2016-11-01-18.00.txt | 19:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2016/keystone.2016-11-01-18.00.log.html | 19:00 |
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| fungi | infra team, assemble! | 19:01 |
| clarkb | hi | 19:02 |
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| ttx | ojai | 19:02 |
| fungi | this week's topics proposed by ttx, ianw, pabelanger | 19:02 |
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| pabelanger | o/ | 19:02 |
| Rockyg | humbug! | 19:02 |
| fungi | AJaeger: thanks for keeping me on track | 19:02 |
| ianw | o/ | 19:02 |
| AJaeger | fungi: you're welcome | 19:02 |
| AJaeger | o/ | 19:02 |
| jeblair | o/ | 19:02 |
| fungi | #startmeeting infra | 19:03 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Nov 1 19:03:04 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is fungi. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 19:03 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 19:03 |
| jhesketh | Morning | 19:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:03 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'infra' | 19:03 |
| fungi | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/InfraTeamMeeting#Agenda_for_next_meeting | 19:03 |
| fungi | #topic Announcements | 19:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Announcements (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:03 | |
| bkero | o/ | 19:03 |
| crinkle | o/ | 19:03 |
| fungi | #info Many members of the Infra team met in person last week at the Ocata Design Summit in Barcelona; a summary will be provided to openstack-infra@lists.openstack.org later this week. | 19:03 |
| fungi | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Design_Summit/Ocata/Etherpads#Infrastructure | 19:03 |
| fungi | #action fungi send summit session summary to infra ml | 19:03 |
| fungi | as always, feel free to hit me up with announcements you want included in future meetings | 19:03 |
| fungi | #topic Actions from last meeting | 19:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Actions from last meeting (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:03 | |
| fungi | #link http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2016/infra.2016-10-18-19.02.html | 19:03 |
| fungi | pleia2 add skeleton infra session etherpads linked from the ocata design summit etherpads wiki page | 19:04 |
| fungi | that's done (see above link in this week's announcements) | 19:04 |
| fungi | thanks for taking care of that! | 19:04 |
| fungi | ianw work on deploying a pholio server | 19:04 |
| fungi | #link https://review.openstack.org/389511 | 19:04 |
| fungi | that looks pretty close | 19:04 |
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| ianw | yep, imagine that will be up this week | 19:04 |
| * fungi rubs hands together evilly | 19:04 | |
| fungi | ...excellent... | 19:04 |
| fungi | #topic Specs approval: PROPOSED "Neutral governance website" (ttx) | 19:05 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Specs approval: PROPOSED "Neutral governance website" (ttx) (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:05 | |
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| fungi | #link https://review.openstack.org/382447 "Neutral governance website" spec | 19:05 |
| fungi | #info The "Neutral governance website" spec is open for Infra Council vote until 19:00 UTC Thursday, November 3. | 19:05 |
| ttx | Mostly a rundown of all the steps I need to go through | 19:05 |
| ttx | to rotate current / to /tc with minimal disruption | 19:05 |
| fungi | it looked complete enough to me | 19:06 |
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| fungi | anybody need to raise any quick questions about this? | 19:06 |
| ttx | let me know if you have questions | 19:06 |
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| fungi | it's likely common sense for those who have been following te governance changes with the uc, but the commit message and spec description spell it out pretty explicitly | 19:07 |
| clarkb | I remember skimming this and it seems to be straightforward | 19:07 |
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| ttx | yeah, nothing fancy really | 19:07 |
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| fungi | thanks ttx! if nobody objects, i'll be approving it in ~48 hours | 19:07 |
| ttx | cool, thanks! | 19:07 |
| fungi | #topic Priority Efforts | 19:08 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Priority Efforts (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:08 | |
| fungi | nothing is called out on the agenda | 19:08 |
| fungi | though rcarrillocruz has proposed to mark infra-cloud as implemented | 19:08 |
| fungi | #link https://review.openstack.org/391443 "Mark infracloud spec as complete" | 19:08 |
| fungi | aside from the technicalities of the index change, anyone disagree that it's implemented enough to be listed as such? | 19:08 |
| fungi | we seemed to have some consensus on this in the friday afternoon unconference anyway | 19:08 |
| clarkb | +1, we are in run the cloud mode now, but its there | 19:08 |
| pabelanger | ++ | 19:08 |
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| fungi | okay, cool. once rcarrillocruz corrects the patch (or when i get around to it if he doesn't have time), i'll approve it | 19:09 |
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| fungi | congrats crinkle, rcarrillocruz, yolanda and everyone who worked so hard on making this work! | 19:10 |
| fungi | #topic Cached image reduction changes (ianw) | 19:10 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Cached image reduction changes (ianw) (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:10 | |
| mordred | o/ | 19:10 |
| fungi | you've got a pretty lengthy summary in the agenda, but care to restate it for posterity of the meeting logs? | 19:10 |
| mordred | (sorry I'm late) | 19:10 |
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| ianw | this was proposed by xen people for devstack, to allow the image list to be reduced in devstacks ./tools/image_list.sh | 19:11 |
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| ianw | thus there is a project config change to only get those images for testing that we use in the gate | 19:12 |
| fungi | i think this dovetails into the arbitrary object mirroring work we've discussed recently | 19:12 |
| pabelanger | I would agree | 19:13 |
| clarkb | ya I think we probably want a minimal image list cached for devstack (cirros or its possible future replacement) and then put everything else on arbitrary file caching setup | 19:13 |
| ianw | so i've proposed that we stop devstack downloading images on the fly, and put in a way to block that, and proposed enabling it | 19:13 |
| fungi | it would be nice to figure out which of these we actually use in jobs, and then which of them we use often enough to benefit from pre-caching on job nodes vs local mirrors in each provider | 19:13 |
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| fungi | but i agree, not caching images we don't use at all in our jobs is a great place to start | 19:13 |
| ianw | hmm, so that would conflict with the "don't download testing images on the fly" approach, if some are to be grabbed from mirrors | 19:13 |
| AJaeger | I'm fine with the current change set in general. The initial changes contained duplicated hardcoded list, which I strongly objected to. | 19:14 |
| clarkb | ianw: they may be grabbed via /afs though | 19:14 |
| clarkb | ianw: in which case its not a download but a filepath that we set in our jobs | 19:14 |
| AJaeger | looking at the paste, codesearch showed all images as beeing used - with exception of cirros-0.3.0-x86_64-disk.vhd.tgz. Not sure where this comes from | 19:14 |
| fungi | job nodes referencing via /afs paths misses out on a reusable cache though because the nodes aren't reused | 19:14 |
| jeblair | clarkb: as much as i love afs, that's almost certain to be slower than wget https://mirror/ | 19:15 |
| clarkb | fungi: thats true | 19:15 |
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| clarkb | ya forgot that we get the local caching from the apache servers which is handy | 19:15 |
| ianw | so, maybe that means we don't try trimming the image list for infra? | 19:15 |
| fungi | ianw: yeah, the goal i have is that we find some balance between images that are too large and/or infrequently used such that we can stop embedding them in our images | 19:15 |
| fungi | and then provide those over local afs-backed mirrors | 19:16 |
| jeblair | ianw: so what about having the flag permit downloading from the mirror, but not the internet? | 19:16 |
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| ianw | jeblair: yes, it could be some sort of allowed regex i guess | 19:16 |
| mordred | like a tri-state flag | 19:17 |
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| mordred | true, false and maybe | 19:17 |
| ianw | i'm not sure it has a concept of downloading from a mirror at all, at the moment | 19:17 |
| ianw | it lists full image urls | 19:17 |
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| jeblair | yeah, and we definitely don't want to encode our mirrors in that list | 19:17 |
| mordred | nope. | 19:18 |
| ianw | it's probably fine to just leave the status quo of downloading all images to be safe then | 19:18 |
| jeblair | maybe the flag could transform the url in that list to one on the mirror, then devstack would either download it from the mirror successfully, or fail it it was not mirrored. | 19:18 |
| mordred | otoh - I know that local mirrors of things are useful to developers in places that are not texas ... maybe adding the concept of an overridable mirror to devstack woudlnt' be _too_ terrible? | 19:18 |
| mordred | like "if mirror is defined, fetch this image from $MIRROR/$PATH ; else from $UPSTREAM_URL" - or something? | 19:19 |
| ianw | yes, i can propose that | 19:20 |
| mordred | then if someone wanted to set up a local apache to just host 5 images they use all the time, it's easy to do without hacking devstack a ton | 19:20 |
| mordred | \o/ | 19:20 |
| fungi | and the $PATH portion of the url would be the same as the on-disk cache path maybe? | 19:20 |
| mordred | maybe so, yeah | 19:20 |
| fungi | that way we don't been any fancy url mangling functions | 19:20 |
| mordred | that would actually make it a nice easy interface | 19:20 |
| fungi | you could even copy your local devstack cache to a webserver and serve it up without rearranging that way | 19:20 |
| jeblair | fungi: even easier if your local devstack cache is in afs :) | 19:21 |
| fungi | heh | 19:21 |
| * jeblair high fives clarkb | 19:21 | |
| ianw | alright, so i'd propose we do NOT do the project-config change to get reduced set of images -> https://review.openstack.org/377159 and focus on ability to get images from a mirror? | 19:21 |
| clarkb | heh | 19:21 |
| fungi | ianw: sounds reasonable | 19:22 |
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| jeblair | i thought we still wanted to have some local cache? | 19:22 |
| jeblair | just more options -- like "used so frequently it should be in the image" vs "used infrequently enough we want to download from mirror" | 19:23 |
| fungi | right, but that's easily combined | 19:23 |
| clarkb | I think we should local cache the "base" small image | 19:23 |
| clarkb | because 95% fo jobs use that one | 19:23 |
| clarkb | and its relatively tiny | 19:23 |
| fungi | #agreed Any image size reduction solutions should take care to avoid making HTTP mirroring or larger or infrequently-used files impossible. | 19:24 |
| jeblair | i like that, but if we feel that d/l it from the mirror would be sufficiently fast/reliable, i could get on board with attempting the no-image-cache idea... | 19:24 |
| fungi | ^ yeah? | 19:24 |
| jeblair | (that was in response to clarkb) | 19:24 |
| fungi | oh, typo | 19:25 |
| fungi | #undo | 19:25 |
| openstack | Removing item from minutes: <ircmeeting.items.Agreed object at 0x7fecfadbf710> | 19:25 |
| fungi | #agreed Any image size reduction solutions should take care to avoid making HTTP mirroring of larger or infrequently-used files impossible. | 19:25 |
| ianw | ok ... yeah i have some more ideas to move forward with thanks | 19:25 |
| fungi | anyone _disagree_ with that statement? | 19:25 |
| ianw | not me :) | 19:25 |
| fungi | thanks for bringing this hairy implementaiton change to the meeting, ian! | 19:25 |
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| jeblair | ++ | 19:26 |
| fungi | #topic Force gate-{name}-pep8-{node} to build needed wheels (pabelanger) | 19:26 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Force gate-{name}-pep8-{node} to build needed wheels (pabelanger) (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:26 | |
| fungi | #link https://review.openstack.org/391875 "Force gate-{name}-pep8-{node} to build needed wheels" | 19:26 |
| fungi | thanks for hacking on this! | 19:26 |
| pabelanger | o/ | 19:27 |
| fungi | i meant to do it months ago, and then as usual got distracted by other fires | 19:27 |
| fungi | it looks more or less like what we talked about on friday | 19:27 |
| pabelanger | So, this popped into my head again at summit and was able to get it working quickly with an experimental zuul job | 19:27 |
| clarkb | as an alternative, maybe we want to push taht into the projects and they can do --no-use-wheels or whatever the pip flag is? | 19:27 |
| pabelanger | wanted to bring some eyes to the review and may discuss how we are forcing no wheels and the message about why we are doing this and date | 19:27 |
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| pabelanger | clarkb: I think we could do that too | 19:28 |
| fungi | clarkb: yeah, that's definitely an option i considered, but it's a lot of changes and a very lengthy transition | 19:28 |
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| fungi | in theory both could be done in parallel | 19:28 |
| clarkb | fungi: the nice thing about it is the magicalness isn't hidden in the ci system. every local run of pep8 will be the same as in ci | 19:28 |
| mordred | yah - and would make responding to fungi's concern in that review harder in the future | 19:28 |
| clarkb | which to me is very important | 19:28 |
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| mordred | thing is - the use of our wheel mirrors is special to our ci system - so working around them seems fair to do in the ci system | 19:29 |
| clarkb | mordred: sort of, aiui the intent is to make it so that somewhere we do installs using sdists | 19:29 |
| fungi | anybody remember off the top of your head where we similarly test that you haven't broken sdist'ing? are we doing that in tox.ini or the job definition/scripts? | 19:29 |
| clarkb | which isn't a ci mirror things its a can we install our things without wheels | 19:29 |
| ianw | they're likely to break because they don't have bindep system dependencies for things they are currently getting as wheels, right? | 19:30 |
| mordred | clarkb: yah - the mechanics of that are only important for the ci system itself | 19:30 |
| clarkb | fungi: I think that happened in the run-tox.sh script (or whatever the equivalent is for pep8) | 19:30 |
| mordred | ianw: yah | 19:30 |
| AJaeger | fungi, in jenkins/scripts somewhere - let me get dteails | 19:30 |
| clarkb | mordred: thats not true, things break when sdist only | 19:30 |
| clarkb | mordred: and that happens regardless of ci or not | 19:30 |
| AJaeger | fungi: in run-pep8.sh | 19:30 |
| fungi | ianw: yeah, there's a semi-frequent race with new dep releases that are sdist-only, where we won't have the wheels built for an hour or so after our pypi mirror updates | 19:30 |
| mordred | totes. I'm just saying that removing extra-index-url from the /etc/pip.conf that's on our build nodes is an action specific to our ci system | 19:31 |
| mordred | becacuse our ci system injects wheels into the environment that do not exist for normal users | 19:31 |
| clarkb | mordred: ya we hit it extra hard because of that but I think its a general issue | 19:31 |
| mordred | so doing this actually makes things _more_ similar to how they run for the user on their local machine | 19:31 |
| fungi | this is true | 19:32 |
| pabelanger | I agree with that too | 19:32 |
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| fungi | the reason i asked about our test that sdist works is that i think confirming these things in the same place would be a bit more consistent | 19:33 |
| clarkb | fungi: ya I can get on baord with that | 19:33 |
| clarkb | in which case we can move this awking to run-pep8.sh | 19:33 |
| mordred | wfm | 19:34 |
| pabelanger | sure, I'll make some changes | 19:34 |
| fungi | pabelanger: clarkb: "move" in this case would be after it baked in the job config for a bit (if ever) so that we can easily revert initially without having to rebuild images | 19:34 |
| clarkb | fungi: that sounds like a good idea :) | 19:35 |
| pabelanger | agreed | 19:35 |
| pabelanger | What sort of timelines are people thinking about making the change? 30days out? | 19:35 |
| fungi | i worry that if the roll-out happens in a script embedded in our images, it makes us less able to respond to mistakes or premature change-over in a timely fashion | 19:35 |
| AJaeger | pabelanger: next 2 weeks? | 19:36 |
| jeblair | maybe a good time to just move run-pep8.sh into jjb | 19:36 |
| mordred | ++ | 19:36 |
| fungi | jeblair: agreed. we've talked about how these don't need to be in separate scripts for the most part | 19:36 |
| pabelanger | AJaeger: wfm, nobody objected | 19:37 |
| fungi | pabelanger: 30 days seems fine, i'd also be okay with sooner | 19:37 |
| pabelanger | I can also start work on a ML post, get some eyes on it for spelling mistakes | 19:37 |
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| fungi | this is something that shouldn't cause an issue for most projects, and if it does it's because they're already arguably broken. also if they're using bindep.txt then it's a quick patch to fix things for them, and if they're not then odds are our bindep fallback already has all the needed deps covered anyway | 19:38 |
| clarkb | or there is some really subtle bug where wheels work and sdists don't | 19:38 |
| fungi | right | 19:38 |
| clarkb | but cases of that seem far less common | 19:38 |
| ianw | yeah, sounds like a real win for keeping it real with bindep.txt | 19:39 |
| fungi | *cough* pandas *cough* | 19:39 |
| clarkb | fungi: :) | 19:39 |
| fungi | though they fixed that in 1.19.1 after much 'splainin | 19:39 |
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| fungi | #agreed Move forward filtering pip.conf to remove wheel mirrors for pep8 jobs in two weeks; optionally move run-pep8.sh into the calling JJB builder macro. | 19:41 |
| fungi | ^ any disagreements on that? | 19:41 |
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| pabelanger | none from me | 19:41 |
| pabelanger | thanks for the help | 19:42 |
| clarkb | nope sounds good | 19:42 |
| fungi | pabelanger: presumably just an e-mail announcing this to the openstack-dev ml now and a reminder before we merge teh change will be sufficient? | 19:42 |
| mordred | ++ | 19:42 |
| pabelanger | fungi: ++ | 19:42 |
| fungi | pabelanger: you want to do the announcing too? | 19:42 |
| pabelanger | fungi: sure, I'll get something into etherpad first | 19:42 |
| ianw | i wonder if we could tell people how to test with a debootstrap or something | 19:42 |
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| fungi | #action pabelanger announce upcoming wheel-less pep8 job transition to openstack-dev ml | 19:43 |
| fungi | ianw: yeah... i was pondering that as well. testing in a chroot is certainly a fairly clean way to go about it but instructions could get lengthy | 19:43 |
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| fungi | alternatively we could try to figure out how to pre-test it (add that experimental job to a bunch of projects and make dummy changes in them?) | 19:44 |
| fungi | with the expectation that any pre-testing we do is sure to be incomplete | 19:45 |
| fungi | this is one place zuul v3 would make things so much simpler | 19:45 |
| fungi | projects who are worried about it could just propose a change running that modified job and see what happens | 19:45 |
| mordred | yup | 19:46 |
| clarkb | you can also just run it locally using the infra images... | 19:46 |
| * clarkb has done a ton of this with the xenial stuff | 19:46 | |
| fungi | this is true, especially if we have a good walkthrough of using our dib elements | 19:46 |
| clarkb | the build image script should just work currently | 19:47 |
| fungi | which is mostly just running that script in project-config | 19:47 |
| clarkb | but I can double check that | 19:47 |
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| fungi | more like should we be recommending not pre-caching all the repos and stuff (does the script do that automatically)? and at least pointers for how to use the resulting image (loopback mount is likely fine in this particular case?) | 19:47 |
| clarkb | the script should make you a 1:1 to what nodepool uses but we could modify it to be more minimal by default | 19:48 |
| clarkb | with a toggle to add in the other elements | 19:48 |
| ianw | i don't think you can really stop the precaching | 19:48 |
| clarkb | ianw: you can if you remove that element from the build, and since zuul-cloner knows how to work without a cache it should mostly just work | 19:49 |
| clarkb | and result in much smaller images | 19:49 |
| fungi | we could stand to refactor our elements to avoid pre-caching git repos, distro packages, devstack files, et cetera | 19:49 |
| clarkb | fungi: I think we already have it split out to handle that | 19:49 |
| fungi | which we've probably already at least mostly done | 19:49 |
| clarkb | ya | 19:49 |
| ianw | clarkb: yeah, but openstack-repos gets dragged in | 19:50 |
| AJaeger | clarkb: not yet - see https://review.openstack.org/322487 | 19:50 |
| clarkb | right you can turn it all on or all off is what I mean to say | 19:50 |
| ianw | by cache-devstack, puppet, etc | 19:50 |
| AJaeger | I would appreciate some review of that one ^ - I wasn't sure whether that's beneficial or not | 19:50 |
| clarkb | and thats already supported | 19:50 |
| clarkb | you just remove the elements that do the caching | 19:50 |
| fungi | also we seem to be veering straight toward our last topic for the day... | 19:50 |
| fungi | #topic Open discussion | 19:50 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:50 | |
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| jeblair | does anyone know of work in progress to run a second openstack bot since we hit our channel limit? | 19:51 |
| AJaeger | jeblair: yeah - let me find a change... | 19:51 |
| fungi | gerritbot presumably? | 19:52 |
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| AJaeger | jeblair: https://review.openstack.org/355588 - but this needs more work and looks abandoned ;( | 19:52 |
| fungi | or have we hit the limit with meetbot now as well? | 19:52 |
| AJaeger | I assume gerritbot - 355588 is for gerritbot | 19:52 |
| clarkb | related to caching things, what do people think about not caching the debian package repos until they no longer happen to be complete forks of all our repos | 19:52 |
| jeblair | huh, seems like we should hit the limit for both at the same time | 19:52 |
| jeblair | bkero: are you still working on that ^? | 19:53 |
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| fungi | fewer teams moved to channel logging. gerrit event updates have been more pupular for longer | 19:53 |
| fungi | popular too | 19:53 |
| AJaeger | jeblair: not every channel that uses gerritbot uses meetbot as well. But yes, meetbot will be next ;) | 19:53 |
| fungi | yep, i haven't counted but wouldn't be surprised to hit it soon if we haven't already | 19:54 |
| ianw | clarkb: there is a heck of a lot of them ... | 19:55 |
| jeblair | clarkb: is there a plan for them not to be forks? | 19:55 |
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| clarkb | jeblair: sort of, in debian session last week the ubuntu folk were pretty adamant that their system of not making it a complete fork was great | 19:55 |
| AJaeger | fungi, jeblair 110 currently setup for meetbot if I counted correctly | 19:56 |
| clarkb | and they basiaclly said we should do that or something similar | 19:56 |
| clarkb | need zigo to come around to it | 19:56 |
| fungi | oh, before next week i'll have the ocata cycle artifact signing key generated and ready for people to confirm/sign | 19:56 |
| fungi | #action fungi generate and sign ocata cycle signing key | 19:56 |
| fungi | meant to do it on friday but my brain was already turning to mush | 19:56 |
| clarkb | mine is still mush | 19:56 |
| pabelanger | clarkb: I still think ubuntu carries tarballs in tree | 19:56 |
| AJaeger | clarkb: yeah, not caching the deb repos looks fine to me. | 19:56 |
| clarkb | pabelanger: ya but they are point int time with a few of their things | 19:57 |
| clarkb | pabelanger: its not the 1GB of nova history or whatever it is | 19:57 |
| pabelanger | right | 19:57 |
| clarkb | which is what I think jamespage was trying to explain, you have much smaller repos | 19:57 |
| pabelanger | but, they do contain some forked code, just less of it | 19:57 |
| clarkb | the other alternative is the overlay thing you talked about | 19:57 |
| fungi | clarkb: is that to reduce the disk pressure on nodepool-builder or the image upload times? or just on principle? | 19:57 |
| clarkb | fungi: all of the above? :) | 19:57 |
| clarkb | fungi: its mostly to keep our images as small as possible because upload time is crazy right now | 19:58 |
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| clarkb | and also build times are related to hygiene in the git repo cache | 19:58 |
| AJaeger | that debian etherpad is not listed at https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Design_Summit/Ocata/Etherpads ;( | 19:58 |
| fungi | oh! right, we're caching those on all our repos right now | 19:58 |
| fungi | er, on all our images | 19:58 |
| fungi | yes to brain still being mush | 19:58 |
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| fungi | we're out of time--thanks everyone! | 20:00 |
| fungi | #endmeeting | 20:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 20:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Nov 1 20:00:06 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 20:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2016/infra.2016-11-01-19.03.html | 20:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2016/infra.2016-11-01-19.03.txt | 20:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2016/infra.2016-11-01-19.03.log.html | 20:00 |
| * EmilienM waves on ttx | 20:00 | |
| ttx | anyone around for the TC meeting ? | 20:00 |
| fungi | (clearly i'm around) | 20:00 |
| amrith | ./ | 20:00 |
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| dtroyer | o/ | 20:00 |
| ttx | mtreinish & stevemar are excused | 20:00 |
| ttx | dhellmann, dims, flaper87, johnthetubaguy, mordred, sdague, thingee: around ? | 20:01 |
| dhellmann | o/ | 20:01 |
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| dims | o/ | 20:01 |
| ttx | let's see if we can reach quorum so close to summit | 20:01 |
| thingee | o/ | 20:01 |
| fungi | i saw mordred internetting mere moments ago | 20:01 |
| ttx | I think that makes 7 | 20:01 |
| mordred | o/ | 20:01 |
| ttx | #startmeeting tc | 20:01 |
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| openstack | Meeting started Tue Nov 1 20:01:41 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is ttx. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 20:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 20:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:01 | |
| * mordred has the internets | 20:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'tc' | 20:01 |
| ttx | Hi everyone, | 20:01 |
| mtreinish | ttx: I'm excused? | 20:01 |
| ttx | mtreinish: oh, I thought you said you wouldn't be attending this one | 20:02 |
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| * jroll pokes his head in | 20:02 | |
| dims | hey mtreinish. missed you at the summit | 20:02 |
| mordred | ++ | 20:02 |
| amrith | +++ | 20:02 |
| ttx | at least you're still on the apologies for absence on https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/TechnicalCommittee | 20:02 |
| mtreinish | oh, I forgot to remove myself | 20:02 |
| ttx | mtreinish: welcome! | 20:02 |
| mtreinish | I was on vacation the past couple weeks | 20:02 |
| thingee | mtreinish yeah I had to announce "just fungi" in the lightning talks. | 20:02 |
| ttx | Since it was unclear that we would get enough people around, I focused of summit feedback and previously-submitted issues: | 20:03 |
| ttx | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/TechnicalCommittee | 20:03 |
| ttx | (remember to use #info #idea and #link liberally to make for a more readable summary) | 20:03 |
| mtreinish | dims: yeah, I'm upset I wasn't able to make it to BCN | 20:03 |
| ttx | #topic Barcelona feedback | 20:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Barcelona feedback (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:03 | |
| ttx | * General feedback | 20:03 |
| ttx | Was great seeing almost everyone last week | 20:03 |
| ttx | Personally I wish I could have spent more time with teams but Summit week is not getting better in terms of conflicts | 20:03 |
| ttx | So I'm looking forward to the PTG now | 20:04 |
| dhellmann | pretty soon we'll all have to move into the same airbnb together | 20:04 |
| ttx | Any other general feedback before we move on to discussing BoD+TC+UC meeting ? | 20:04 |
| dims | :) | 20:04 |
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| * Rockyg shoots a wadded up openStack summit badge at jroll's head | 20:04 | |
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| * jroll throws a cough drop back at Rockyg | 20:05 | |
| fungi | yeah, i normally don't present at the main conference, but missing most of a day of x-proj sessions to attend keynote rehearsals on tuesday taught me the pain of those who do | 20:05 |
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| ttx | ok, moving on, we can comment more in open discussion at the end | 20:05 |
| ttx | * Following up on the BoD+TC+UC meeting | 20:05 |
| ttx | We discussed several topics there, I think we have a number of action items | 20:06 |
| ttx | For example it would be good to estimate which teams will be struggling in Ocata due to developer attrition | 20:06 |
| ttx | dhellmann and myself are working on that | 20:06 |
| ttx | We also identified the need of encouraging users of OpenStack to directly support development | 20:06 |
| ttx | which would create a pretty virtuous circle... | 20:06 |
| Rockyg | Thanks for that ttx and dhellmann | 20:06 |
| amrith | dhellmann, ttx, I'd like to speak with you about that (asking for a friend). | 20:06 |
| EmilienM | is there an etherpad we could contribute for that? | 20:06 |
| ttx | The trick being they can't hire dozens of them, so we want to make sure those few get a good experience contributing | 20:07 |
| ttx | EmilienM: on the dev attrition ? I'd rather collect data semi-anonymously | 20:07 |
| EmilienM | ttx: fair enough | 20:07 |
| dhellmann | EmilienM : I've been collecting data quietly. You can email me directly, if you like. | 20:07 |
| EmilienM | dhellmann: I will | 20:07 |
| fungi | i agree, the force that keeps most free software projects running long-term is their users becoming active developers | 20:07 |
| dhellmann | fungi : ++ | 20:07 |
| smcginnis | Have we ever thought of having an "intro to contiributing" at the ops midcycle? | 20:08 |
| dims | dhellmann : email you with list of projects that i think will be affected? | 20:08 |
| ttx | smcginnis: sounds like a good idea | 20:08 |
| dhellmann | dims : yes, please send any data you have. We'll also be contacting PTLs directly. | 20:08 |
| dims | ack dhellmann | 20:08 |
| amrith | an interesting twist ... at the ops midcycle ... | 20:08 |
| fungi | smcginnis: could basically just do a day of "upstream university" the day before, like we've done at summits the past couple years? | 20:08 |
| smcginnis | fungi: +1 | 20:08 |
| fungi | seems like it should be reasonably portable | 20:09 |
| Rockyg | +100 | 20:09 |
| smcginnis | fungi: They would have a little different take on some of it, but it could be tailored to fit their perspective. | 20:09 |
| ttx | fungi: note that we'll have upstream recruitment classrooms in future summits (as part of the "academy") | 20:09 |
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| fungi | well, i know the uu crowd are wanting to also be able to do on-site training for large contributor companies as well, so presumably are getting ready for audiences to vary pretty widely | 20:09 |
| ttx | probably more project teams doing a deep dive, but could be generalist too | 20:09 |
| Rockyg | if nothing else there could be a hot bugfix training session.. | 20:10 |
| ttx | On the "other communities" engagement, we said it would be great to be a bit more formal about it | 20:10 |
| ttx | like knowing who is involved where and get regular reports from those "ambassadors" | 20:10 |
| diablo_rojo | fungi: ildikov and I were just talking about doing a mini upstream with OSD's this morning | 20:10 |
| fungi | diablo_rojo: ildikov: that's excellent | 20:10 |
| ttx | Finally we discussed making sure we get critical mass of developers in both PTG and Summit/forum | 20:11 |
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| ttx | which will likely require some more discussion/education | 20:11 |
| dhellmann | there's still a surprising amount of confusion about that | 20:11 |
| amrith | dims, maybe we can repurpose the talk we gave at BU | 20:11 |
| dims | amrith : +1 | 20:11 |
| ttx | dhellmann: yes, at some point it feels like to much communication kills the message | 20:11 |
| Rockyg | dhellmann, lots in the community learn by example, so first ones will be critical | 20:11 |
| ttx | After that meeting it was also pretty clear that we should communicate a bit more with board members and the community at large about recent decisions we made | 20:12 |
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| ttx | At this stage it is too easy to interpret (or spin) the Swift/Go decision into "the TC doesn't want Go", or "the TC doesn't want innovation/competition" | 20:12 |
| cdent | dhellmann: how much of the confusion is actually fear about not being able to go because of budgetary concerns? | 20:12 |
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| ttx | cdent: the two are tied, definitely | 20:12 |
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| dhellmann | hmm, I know they're both out there but I didn't see them as tied. | 20:13 |
| amrith | #action [dims, amrith] repurpose talk from BU for general consumption as a "intro to contributing" (H/T: smcginnis) | 20:13 |
| ttx | So I think we'll have to be clearer on the way forward -- what does it take for "OpenStack" to adopt other languages or technologies | 20:13 |
| ttx | Several of us plan to write blogposts to help with that | 20:13 |
| smcginnis | cdent: +1 | 20:13 |
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| ildikov | ttx: I would also be interested in figuring out the "other communities' engagement" things, like OPNFV for instance and help them out where we can, joint trainings for instance, etc. | 20:13 |
| dhellmann | ttx: didn't we also get a volunteer to start writing up something in the governance repo when we talked last week? | 20:13 |
| ttx | We'll discuss the UC part in a minute, any other feedback on the Board+TC+UC meeting ? | 20:13 |
| ttx | dhellmann: ISTR someone volunteering for something yes | 20:14 |
| ttx | it's all a bit fuzzy | 20:14 |
| dhellmann | was that flaper87? | 20:14 |
| ttx | dhellmann: good bet, he always volunteers for things | 20:14 |
| dhellmann | and he's not here, so let's put him down for it | 20:15 |
| ttx | Wondering if that wasn't Emilien though | 20:15 |
| dims | ildikov : i talked a bit in the meeting about what some of us do with kubernetes community | 20:15 |
| dhellmann | oh, maybe it was EmilienM | 20:15 |
| EmilienM | I can take it and work with Flavio | 20:15 |
| dhellmann | cool, thanks | 20:15 |
| ttx | dims/ildikov: the embassy / ambassador analogy was good there | 20:15 |
| ildikov | dims: cool, that sounds great too, it would be good to catch up on that later if you have some time! | 20:15 |
| dims | ildikov : ack sounds good | 20:16 |
| ttx | * An elected UC | 20:16 |
| ildikov | ttx: +1 | 20:16 |
| ttx | During that same meeting the UC presented their plans to get to a proper mandate in the bylaws and an elected committee early 2017 | 20:16 |
| ildikov | dims: cool, tnx! | 20:16 |
| fungi | yes, mordred's political analogies were spot on | 20:16 |
| EmilienM | #action EmilienM & flaper87 to start writing up in governance repo about TC thoughts during board+tc+uc meeting | 20:16 |
| ttx | From that discussion it was clear to me that the two bodies will have more legitimacy and clearer boundaries if the electorate of one is not included in the other | 20:16 |
| ttx | We do want to encourage as much overlap as we can between the two, but not inclusion IMHO | 20:16 |
| fungi | well, not explicitly included at least | 20:17 |
| ttx | #link https://review.openstack.org/381894 | 20:17 |
| mtreinish | ttx: that makes sense to me | 20:17 |
| ttx | So I think the UC is moving fast enough (and we have enough overlap between electorates) that we don't need that one ? | 20:17 |
| dims | ttx : folks can end up in both, just won't get automatic privileges in the other if they are part of one | 20:17 |
| mtreinish | and kinda how I assumed it was gonna work anyway (being absent from the discussions) | 20:17 |
| dhellmann | yes, I'm glad to see this proposal moving forward with so much support | 20:17 |
| fungi | though 381894 made an excellent straw-man alternative | 20:18 |
| ttx | yea, that was useful to frame the discussion | 20:18 |
| ttx | mordred: want to defend it, or abandon it ? | 20:18 |
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| mordred | ttx: I'll just abandon it | 20:20 |
| ttx | Cool | 20:20 |
| ttx | * Outcome of the proprietary drivers discussion | 20:20 |
| ttx | Another thing we discussed in cross-project sessions which has TC implications was the proprietary drivers line | 20:20 |
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| ttx | There is a thread now to discuss it: | 20:20 |
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| ttx | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2016-October/106432.html | 20:20 |
| ttx | I think we can comment there and discuss it in a future meeting | 20:21 |
| ttx | Anything else re: Barcelona ? | 20:21 |
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| dims | thanks to mordred to setup the dinner (though i had to drop off at the last minute!) | 20:21 |
| EmilienM | mordred: ++ thx | 20:22 |
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| dhellmann | ttx: we also discussed setting up a special category of teams for driver-only projects. I'm interested in helping to work on that language. I think fungi said he was, too? | 20:22 |
| fungi | yes, count me in when the time comes to discuss | 20:23 |
| ttx | ++ | 20:23 |
| mordred | my pleasure! I thuoght it was really great to get to see humans and talk to their faces | 20:23 |
| ttx | ok, moving on! | 20:23 |
| fungi | i'd love to pitch in on the mechanics and summary documentation around whatever we arrive at | 20:23 |
| ttx | #topic Overdue update of mission statement in charter | 20:23 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Overdue update of mission statement in charter (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:23 | |
| ttx | #link https://review.openstack.org/389611 | 20:23 |
| ttx | Realized recently we updated the mission statement in the charter to an intermediary version instead of the final | 20:23 |
| ttx | So this fixes it | 20:23 |
| ttx | Looks like it's good to go | 20:24 |
| fungi | (oops!) | 20:24 |
| ttx | yes, "oops" | 20:24 |
| ttx | approved | 20:24 |
| ttx | #topic Update QA's extra-atc | 20:24 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Update QA's extra-atc (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:24 | |
| ttx | #link https://review.openstack.org/389324 | 20:24 |
| ttx | This one renews Scott Moser's ATC status | 20:24 |
| ttx | Looks like it's also good to go | 20:25 |
| ttx | "Narwhal, narwhal" | 20:25 |
| dhellmann | that was a response to my cleanup patch: https://review.openstack.org/388170 | 20:25 |
| ttx | #topic Tighten up language in "Contribution Is Our Currency" | 20:25 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Tighten up language in "Contribution Is Our Currency" (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:25 | |
| ttx | #link https://review.openstack.org/387370 | 20:26 |
| ttx | I think this is a good incremental improvement... | 20:26 |
| ttx | Would love to have mtreinish's opinion on it though, since he is the original author | 20:26 |
| ttx | checking this doesn't denature his original goal | 20:27 |
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| * ttx checks if that is a verb in english | 20:27 | |
| anteaya | it is | 20:27 |
| mtreinish | ttx: I think that is a good reword. It gives off the same vibe I was looking for in the original | 20:27 |
| ttx | You borrowed so many words from French that I'm sometimes lost | 20:27 |
| dims | whoa, that's new one for me :) | 20:28 |
| ttx | mtreinish: Cool! | 20:28 |
| ttx | So I think it is good to go | 20:28 |
| ttx | Last-minute comments/objections ? | 20:28 |
| mtreinish | ttx: all I was looking for with that was that was basically to say things don't happen top down, some one still needs to push a patch to get something done | 20:28 |
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| ttx | ok then, approved | 20:29 |
| ttx | cdent: many thanks | 20:30 |
| cdent | my pleasure | 20:30 |
| ttx | #topic Add "Assume Good Faith" to OpenStack principles | 20:30 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Add "Assume Good Faith" to OpenStack principles (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:30 | |
| dims | ++ thanks cdent | 20:30 |
| ttx | #link https://review.openstack.org/365590 | 20:30 |
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| ttx | We don't have flaper87 around to defend it | 20:30 |
| ttx | I like the new wording on this one. Still slightly torn on adding behavior guidelines to a principles document (vs. CoC) | 20:30 |
| fungi | i need convincing on this one. it doesn't seem at all specific to the openstack community | 20:30 |
| ttx | But then last week showed how much of a trust issue there is in some corners of OpenStack, so maybe that can't hurt | 20:30 |
| ttx | I'm +0 | 20:30 |
| thingee | ditto | 20:31 |
| fungi | it strikes me as general advice for participating in a culturally-diverse organization | 20:31 |
| anteaya | is this patch going to fix an existing trust issue? | 20:31 |
| thingee | I also think it's wrong for the CoC to state that people should assume good faith | 20:31 |
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| fungi | i seriously doubt this is a situation we're going to improve with messaging. it really only happens organically through example | 20:32 |
| ttx | Any other opinion ? | 20:33 |
| fungi | and we're already pretty good in this regard. on our mailing lists i don't see anything close to the rants and flame wars typical to lkml or debian-devel, for example | 20:33 |
| EmilienM | I agree actions would actually make this change happen, eg: when we add/remove projects from OpenStack -etc | 20:34 |
| EmilienM | fungi: true, our ML is pretty clean on this side. | 20:34 |
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| fungi | well, i think it really happens by people seeing one another make mistakes in public and then apologize for the misunderstanding | 20:35 |
| ttx | This one is struggling a bit to get people excited about it | 20:35 |
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| dhellmann | yeah, I want people to do this but I don't know if this is the approach to ensure it happens | 20:35 |
| ttx | and it feels like to make it to a "principle" we'd need to feel more strongly about it | 20:35 |
| thingee | +1 | 20:35 |
| ttx | Not sure we want a bunch or "yeah, whatever" principles | 20:36 |
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| ttx | of* | 20:36 |
| fungi | and if we get too much nonspecific advice in this document, it loses its impact | 20:36 |
| EmilienM | well, documenting it is still a good first iteration | 20:36 |
| ttx | It's probably better to rediscuss it with flaper87 around | 20:36 |
| persia | On the other hand, some of what some of us may consider nonspecific advice may be new and interesting to those from other corners of the "open source community" | 20:36 |
| ttx | so let's table it a bit. No urgency | 20:36 |
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| ttx | #topic Open discussion | 20:37 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:37 | |
| ttx | We have a bunch of important topics for next week | 20:37 |
| dhellmann | maybe this is less a principle and something we should put into a "how to communicate successfully" section of the project team guide | 20:38 |
| mugsie_ | dhellmann: ++ | 20:38 |
| fungi | i could be convinced of that | 20:38 |
| ttx | We'll close the TC/PTL election timeframe discussion -- I'll send a new email to remind PTLs to express their opinion | 20:38 |
| ttx | dhellmann: ++ | 20:38 |
| dims | dhellmann : right, this came up in the election thread too (http://markmail.org/message/srbbu7pxnfire3yq) and we were able to uphold good faith there | 20:38 |
| EmilienM | ttx: I'll update Wiki but I'm on vacations the next 2 weeks. I'll do my best to attend TC meeting but in case I can't do it, Doug or Flavio will be my proxies. | 20:38 |
| ttx | EmilienM: sounds good | 20:38 |
| ttx | " | 20:38 |
| anteaya | dhellmann: then I'd encourage the route of discuss differences with people rather than make assumptions about them | 20:38 |
| Rockyg | "Community based on trust and good faith" is more a definition of the openstack community than a principle | 20:38 |
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| dhellmann | anteaya : sure. | 20:39 |
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| anteaya | dhellmann: thanks | 20:39 |
| ttx | mordred: We'll have Tricircle on the agenda next week... will you be around ? Since you followed them | 20:39 |
| dims | Anyone interested in "create a "new project" checklist for things that projects need to do when they join the big tent", i picked up a TODO in the release team meeting? | 20:39 |
| ttx | dhellmann: Should we defer "Add networking-cisco back into the Big Tent" until you have a proposal up for driver-only teams ? | 20:39 |
| EmilienM | dims: yes, please | 20:39 |
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| dims | EmilienM : ack, i'll ping you when i get started on that :) | 20:39 |
| EmilienM | mtreinish: removing you from absence section in Wiki | 20:39 |
| fungi | dims: like as a governance-oriented companion to our more technical process-oriented primer? | 20:39 |
| EmilienM | dims: I did this process many times, I think I can help there. | 20:40 |
| dhellmann | ttx: yes, please. I want to vote yes, but we can't with our current rules and I'd rather not have them get a "no" then a "try again!" | 20:40 |
| mtreinish | EmilienM: ok, sure thanks | 20:40 |
| dims | fungi : some details here (https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/ocata-relmgt-plan Line 148) | 20:40 |
| dims | fungi : y for governance repo | 20:40 |
| ttx | #action ttx to defer networking-cisco to after dhellmann proposed a driver-only team resolution | 20:40 |
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| fungi | dims: oh, awesome. i was floating back and forth between infra and other rooms so missed that discussion. thanks! | 20:41 |
| ttx | BTW We are starting to see "goals acknowledgement" changes being posted. How do you want those approved ? | 20:41 |
| ttx | Should we use our usual "lazy consensus" rule ? I.e. one week without -1 is good enough ? | 20:41 |
| dhellmann | ttx: we called that out specifically in the house rules document somewhere | 20:41 |
| dims | ttx : +1 | 20:41 |
| dhellmann | #link http://governance.openstack.org/reference/house-rules.html#goal-updates-from-ptls | 20:41 |
| fungi | yeah, i thought i remembered seeing it there | 20:41 |
| ttx | oooh, shiny | 20:41 |
| fungi | granted, i only read that because it was in my "tc orientation packet" | 20:42 |
| EmilienM | dims: sure thing, email is best for me | 20:42 |
| ttx | I wasn't in the upgrade cross-project workshop but it feels like we should now proceed on https://review.openstack.org/#/c/372686/ ? | 20:42 |
| dims | EmilienM : yep, will add you and fungi | 20:42 |
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| fungi | 372686 seems noncontentious, at least on the surface | 20:44 |
| ttx | fungi: we wanted to nail down testing first | 20:44 |
| mtreinish | ttx: iirc the blocker for 372686 is that there is no method for verifying that. We need testing set up first before we can do that | 20:44 |
| EmilienM | ttx: +1 for lazy consensus on this one | 20:44 |
| mtreinish | heh, I should type faster :) | 20:45 |
| ttx | About Barcelona: I found the cross-project workshops more useful than usual. Makes me think we might want to keep a fishbowl room at the PTG to facilitate inter-project discussions (think: the review scaling discussion) | 20:45 |
| fungi | oh, thanks ttx, mtreinish | 20:45 |
| dims | ttx : the SWG session went well too i thought | 20:45 |
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| dhellmann | ttx: ++ | 20:45 |
| smcginnis | ttx: +1 | 20:45 |
| EmilienM | ttx: well, I wished some of cross-project sessions would be less nova-centralized | 20:45 |
| ttx | Something we could book for an ad-hoc discussion | 20:45 |
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| jroll | ttx: +1 on x-project workshops being super useful | 20:46 |
| cdent | EmilienM: ++ | 20:46 |
| fungi | EmilienM: those weren't really _supposed_ to be entirely nova-specific, but they served as a primary example | 20:46 |
| ttx | the trick being to not cross the line with stuff that would require all the community being present | 20:46 |
| EmilienM | fungi: I wish we could have talked more about other projects in general. Nova seems to have a lot of problems that other projects don't seem to have | 20:47 |
| dims | right, kudos to mriedem to open up the nova team to the microscope | 20:47 |
| fungi | EmilienM: also possible that nova is having problems other projects haven't hit _yet_ due to being one of the earliest and largest | 20:47 |
| mriedem | i tried to get other project input | 20:47 |
| ttx | EmilienM: yes at one point it turned nova-specific, but the first part was pretty inclusive | 20:47 |
| mriedem | i took away that it's not just a problem for nova | 20:47 |
| EmilienM | cool, just giving feedback | 20:47 |
| mriedem | but amplified given the size | 20:48 |
| jroll | mriedem: ++ | 20:48 |
| dims | ++ mriedem | 20:48 |
| dhellmann | mriedem : yeah, that's more or less what I got, too | 20:48 |
| fungi | seemed like issues where nova is our canary in the coal mine | 20:48 |
| EmilienM | mriedem: thx for leading this session btw | 20:48 |
| ttx | it was also very useful to have all those projects in the room to get their advice/input/solutions | 20:48 |
| dhellmann | at least we learned that no one is keeping the answer to this problem a secret from other teams :-) | 20:48 |
| dims | fungi : nova and neutron :) | 20:48 |
| dims | dhellmann : hahaha | 20:48 |
| EmilienM | ttx: right, it was useful | 20:48 |
| ttx | ok... Anything else, anyone ? | 20:49 |
| ildikov | dims: amrith: if you would like to have some brainstorming about the 'How to contribute' session for the Ops mid-cycle we're quite in the middle of these with diablo_rojo due to our Upstream training assignments recently | 20:49 |
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| amrith | hello ... | 20:49 |
| ildikov | also if anyone would be interested in shorter training version before in connection to the OSD events please reach out to either of us :) | 20:49 |
| smcginnis | Is there still a separate ops midcycle? If so, is there a date set? | 20:49 |
| dims | ack ildikov | 20:49 |
| amrith | ildikov, ack | 20:49 |
| fungi | i got from the ops ml that they're still working on scheduling | 20:49 |
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| fungi | smcginnis: ^ | 20:50 |
| ildikov | it would be great if we could connect local development communities with newcomers, who are interested | 20:50 |
| smcginnis | fungi: tx | 20:50 |
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| dougwig | mriedem: neutron had similar issues, we just traded them for different issues. | 20:50 |
| dhellmann | ildikov : will that info be available for local meetups, too? my group in ATL is interested in something like this. | 20:50 |
| ildikov | several people have time zone issues and find people from whom they can ask to get started, etc. | 20:50 |
| EmilienM | dougwig: nicely said ;-) | 20:51 |
| ildikov | dhellmann: we are developing the content in the open, having weekly meetings with the training guides team | 20:51 |
| dims | nice ildikov ! | 20:51 |
| dhellmann | ildikov : excellent, I'll look for that | 20:51 |
| ildikov | dhellmann: so if you know people/areas interested I think we could work together to have parts delivered people are interested at | 20:51 |
| anteaya | smcginnis: http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-operators/2016-October/011866.html | 20:51 |
| fungi | yeah, the training guides team are doing an excellent job of being transparent with all this | 20:51 |
| smcginnis | anteaya: ty | 20:51 |
| anteaya | welcome | 20:51 |
| EmilienM | OSD = OpenStack Days for the record (I had to google it) | 20:52 |
| ttx | Alright, if we have nothing else, let's get 5 minutes of our lives back | 20:52 |
| ttx | we might need those later | 20:52 |
| anteaya | EmilienM: thanks, I also didn't know | 20:52 |
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| ildikov | EmilienM: tnx! :) | 20:52 |
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| dhellmann | ttx: ++ | 20:53 |
| dims | aha EmilienM | 20:53 |
| ttx | Thanks everyone! Take it easy this week :) | 20:53 |
| EmilienM | ttx: thanks for chairing! | 20:53 |
| ttx | #endmeeting | 20:53 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 20:53 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Nov 1 20:53:39 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 20:53 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2016/tc.2016-11-01-20.01.html | 20:53 |
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| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2016/tc.2016-11-01-20.01.txt | 20:53 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2016/tc.2016-11-01-20.01.log.html | 20:53 |
| fungi | EmilienM: dims: so many of the foundation staff are wrapped up in the osd circuit i think they forget they may need to expand that acronym | 20:54 |
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| dims | :) | 20:54 |
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| fungi | the events tend to not be very upstream dev focused, which is why a lot (most?) of our dev community don't know they exist | 20:55 |
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| persia | Better advertisement of the OSDs may also be useful. I'm often surprised by them (and find myself far away from where they are located) | 20:55 |
| EmilienM | fungi: I went to some of them when I was living in Europe. They are very useful. | 20:56 |
| mugsie_ | They are, but can be sales events for sponsors | 20:56 |
| fungi | good to know! i recall asking an organizer whether i should be extending a planned trip to attend one, and was told "expect it to mostly be people in suits" | 20:56 |
| mugsie_ | Ireland's was great - but we have a huge amount of devs in Ireland (especially relative to our size) bit there was very few dev talks | 20:57 |
| diablo_rojo | fungi: Some are better than others. I liked the OSD East one they held in NY. | 20:57 |
| Rockyg | Some days are better than otthers. worth extending trip if it's one of the good ones. | 20:57 |
| diablo_rojo | Rockyg: jinx :) | 20:57 |
| fungi | heh, thanks | 20:57 |
| Rockyg | ++ on the NYC one. | 20:57 |
| dhellmann | fungi : we had a good hallway track at the one in NYC this summer. | 20:57 |
| fungi | i'll keep that in mind | 20:57 |
| diablo_rojo | dhellmann +1 | 20:57 |
| Rockyg | diablo_rojo, :P | 20:58 |
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| Rockyg | diablo_rojo, s/:P ;P | 20:58 |
| diablo_rojo | Ha ha :) | 20:59 |
| Rockyg | it feels like Monday again. | 20:59 |
| diablo_rojo | If I only knew what day it actually was | 20:59 |
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| *** zioproto has joined #openstack-meeting | 21:00 | |
| zioproto | hello | 21:00 |
| zioproto | is the meeting here for scientific working group ? | 21:00 |
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| oneswig | rsn | 21:01 |
| b1airo | morning | 21:01 |
| * dfflanders secretly wishes fungi would be a mentor at a hackaathon someday ;-) | 21:01 | |
| zioproto | b1airo: good night :) here is 22:00 :) | 21:01 |
| b1airo | zioproto, honestly i'm so jetlagged i have no idea what time my body is on | 21:01 |
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| dfflanders | blairo sounds like you need a squash sesh ;-) | 21:02 |
| oneswig | I think we are ready - take it away mr music? | 21:02 |
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| b1airo | #startmeeting scientific_wg | 21:02 |
| martial | hello all | 21:02 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Nov 1 21:02:48 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is b1airo. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 21:02 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 21:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: scientific_wg)" | 21:02 | |
| priteau | Good morning / evening everyone | 21:02 |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'scientific_wg' | 21:02 |
| oneswig | Good afternoon anyone? | 21:03 |
| b1airo | #chair oneswig | 21:03 |
| openstack | Current chairs: b1airo oneswig | 21:03 |
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| simon-AS559 | o/ | 21:03 |
| b1airo | #chair martial | 21:03 |
| openstack | Current chairs: b1airo martial oneswig | 21:03 |
| oneswig | #link agenda for today https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Scientific_working_group#IRC_Meeting_November_1st_2016 | 21:03 |
| zioproto | oneswig is stig ? | 21:03 |
| dfflanders | y | 21:03 |
| oneswig | indeed | 21:03 |
| zioproto | here is saverio | 21:03 |
| b1airo | and agenda dump is: | 21:04 |
| b1airo | Selection of New Activity Areas for Ocata Cycle | 21:04 |
| b1airo | https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/scientific-wg-barcelona-agenda | 21:04 |
| b1airo | Brainstorm of 'Forum' session proposals for Boston | 21:04 |
| b1airo | WG Picks from the Summit | 21:04 |
| b1airo | Developer sessions | 21:04 |
| b1airo | Video Archive | 21:04 |
| b1airo | Plans for Supercomputing 2016 | 21:04 |
| b1airo | Evening social? | 21:04 |
| b1airo | Superuser blog post? | 21:04 |
| oneswig | #topic new activity areas for ocata | 21:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "new activity areas for ocata (Meeting topic: scientific_wg)" | 21:04 | |
| oneswig | Well, we had a good session on this at the summit | 21:05 |
| b1airo | if you can check / add your details to the scientific-wg rolodex that'd be great - | 21:05 |
| b1airo | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/scientific-wg-rolodex | 21:05 |
| oneswig | See the etherpad link - line 39 onwards - https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/scientific-wg-barcelona-agenda | 21:05 |
| martial | oneswig: it sure was a busy meeting (we need a bigger room :) ) | 21:05 |
| oneswig | Perhaps we do - but nobody has said we need a better view | 21:06 |
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| oneswig | I think we should pick four activities to focus on - seemed like about the right number. Any view on that? | 21:06 |
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| martial | should we go by number of people interested ? | 21:07 |
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| b1airo | re. room / logistics etc, i think next time we should try for a double session for the meeting | 21:07 |
| oneswig | Identity federation was a popular choice, clearly | 21:08 |
| dfflanders | oneswig, key is having people willing to hold up their hand to play lead on each activity imho | 21:08 |
| oneswig | b1airo: longer, rather than wider, I like it | 21:08 |
| oneswig | makes sense | 21:08 |
| martial | oneswig Scientific Datasets | 21:08 |
| dfflanders | +1 | 21:08 |
| priteau | oneswig: big data processing and scientific datasets are two main topics, and they could possibly be under the same umbrella | 21:08 |
| zioproto | I am interested in both Identity Federation and Scientific Datasets | 21:08 |
| oneswig | martial: can you elaborate on what's involved there? | 21:08 |
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| martial | and GPGPU | 21:09 |
| martial | those were the top three it seems | 21:09 |
| b1airo | i think that's the bring the compute to the data idea, oneswig | 21:09 |
| b1airo | and especially for large science clouds having interesting datasets easily accessible brings users | 21:09 |
| oneswig | so more than a directory of who hosts what data then? Something automated | 21:09 |
| martial | oneswig: was just listing the top topics from the etherpad | 21:10 |
| oneswig | martial: ah ok | 21:10 |
| b1airo | yeah i have no idea what practices are out there today - i guess that's where we'd start | 21:10 |
| dfflanders | http://docs.aws.amazon.com/AWSEC2/latest/UserGuide/using-public-data-sets.html <-- thoughts martial | 21:10 |
| martial | oneswig: the subtitle was "is anyone hosting or consuming Scientific Datasets with Openstack ?" | 21:10 |
| zioproto | martial: I am | 21:10 |
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| zioproto | so the idea is that Amazon is doing this | 21:10 |
| zioproto | https://aws.amazon.com/public-data-sets/ | 21:10 |
| zioproto | we want to host datasets | 21:10 |
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| zioproto | otherwise users will go away to the amazon cloud | 21:11 |
| dfflanders | +1 | 21:11 |
| zioproto | I am hosting the Common Crowl dataset (part of it 30Tb) | 21:11 |
| b1airo | yes i'm sure we're all consuming them, but whether our clouds are hosting them in an accessible manner is another question, and then what are the choices/best-practices for hosting/moving/sharing | 21:11 |
| oneswig | zioproto: do you know how they are exposed in AWS? | 21:11 |
| zioproto | oneswig: yes with S3 | 21:11 |
| oneswig | zioproto: objects then - interesting | 21:11 |
| zioproto | that is why amazon implements the Hadoop connector to S3 | 21:11 |
| b1airo | this would be a nice topic for engaging with NRENs too i suspect | 21:12 |
| martial | the page zioproto shared lists the information and datatypes available on S3 | 21:12 |
| zioproto | b1airo: yes NREN are very interested | 21:12 |
| oneswig | zioproto: do you envisage a port to swift of the same? I assume more is needed wrt metadata? | 21:12 |
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| zioproto | I tested also swift | 21:13 |
| zioproto | but the Hadoop connector for swift is buggy | 21:13 |
| dfflanders | john dickinson (PTL of Swift) would be interested in this | 21:13 |
| zioproto | cant work with files bigger than 5Gb | 21:13 |
| martial | (sorry dfflanders) | 21:13 |
| zioproto | there is a open bug for that in openstack sahara | 21:13 |
| zioproto | so NRENs got started this about SCientific Dataset collaboration #link https://docs.google.com/document/d/10YVe3Ex0tvR6p12t8kxhwgm_f2Ws_mMX7_w_AMm_BwM/edit?usp=sharing | 21:14 |
| seattleplus | Note that this is where SwiftOnFile comes into play | 21:14 |
| oneswig | zioproto: assume you've added your vote to it? | 21:14 |
| zioproto | where do I have to add the vote ? | 21:14 |
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| martial | zioproto https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/scientific-wg-barcelona-agenda | 21:14 |
| martial | zioproto line 112 | 21:14 |
| oneswig | zioproto: comment, add yourself as a watcher, etc. | 21:14 |
| zioproto | sahara bug #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/sahara/+bug/1593663 | 21:15 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1593663 in Sahara "[hadoop-swift] Cannot access Swift Static Large Objects" [High,Confirmed] | 21:15 |
| seattleplus | Otherwise, any large data stored in Swift requires manual chunking | 21:15 |
| oneswig | Oh, you filed it. Counts as interest I guess... | 21:15 |
| zioproto | oneswig: right I wrote that stuff | 21:15 |
| * dfflanders thinks this would be a great poster for Forum in Boston to get PTLs of Sahara and Swift to meet this use case. | 21:16 | |
| notmyname | my irc client is going crazy over here | 21:16 |
| zioproto | I was at the Sahara design session | 21:16 |
| oneswig | sounds good to me - and a good activity area | 21:16 |
| zioproto | there was not a lot of enthusiasm around fixing this bug | 21:16 |
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| oneswig | hello notmyname | 21:16 |
| dfflanders | lol popular notmyname | 21:17 |
| notmyname | how can I help? | 21:17 |
| clarkb | it is filed against sahara but it looks like hadoop is what is actually failing? | 21:17 |
| clarkb | should that bug be pushed upstream to hadoop? | 21:17 |
| dfflanders | welcome John :) | 21:17 |
| b1airo | hi John, thanks for watching! | 21:17 |
| zioproto | there is a paternity problem about this swiftfs hadoop code, now it is maintained in Sahara... but should be a Apache Hadoop thing ? | 21:17 |
| priteau | We have some users interested by the Swift+Hadoop use case in Chameleon as well, I know we checked out a few solutions at some points, I will try to share what we've learned | 21:18 |
| martial | thanks priteau | 21:18 |
| zioproto | clarkb: see here https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/sahara-ocata-edp | 21:18 |
| zioproto | at the end they talk about this bug | 21:18 |
| seattleplus | I would argue it depends on how often you want to access the common dataset | 21:19 |
| zioproto | priteau: what is Chameleon ? | 21:19 |
| seattleplus | If its >1, then there is great benefit to just copying the data out of Swift | 21:19 |
| oneswig | Does this mean Sahara does not currently get used for objects of this size? | 21:19 |
| b1airo | notmyname, we were just discussing public scientific dataset hosting for openstack clouds and related to that hadoop+sahara - apparently there is a problematic bug in sahara with regard to large objects: #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/sahara/+bug/1593663 | 21:19 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1593663 in Sahara "[hadoop-swift] Cannot access Swift Static Large Objects" [High,Confirmed] | 21:19 |
| clarkb | zioproto: oh if sahara maintains it then you are probably fine. I was going off of the "error is emitted by hadoop process" in that bug | 21:19 |
| priteau | zioproto: testbed for cloud computing research built with OpenStack (http://www.chameleoncloud.org) | 21:19 |
| dfflanders | Chameleon is NSF funded baremetal as a service for CS researchers in the USA | 21:19 |
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| zioproto | seattleplus: if the dataset is 200Tb you want to consume it directly from object storage without holding another copy | 21:19 |
| priteau | What is the best way to share knowledge on this topic? etherpad or wiki page? | 21:20 |
| b1airo | we were just musing that Swift folks would be interested in this general data hosting topic and may be able to help move any related technical issues | 21:20 |
| seattleplus | zioproto: Well…again, if it takes 10x longer to process, then that isn’t always true | 21:20 |
| zioproto | seattleplus: agreed !!! | 21:20 |
| dfflanders | +1 priteau | 21:21 |
| arcimboldo | it's a matter of *how* you download it. Also swiftfs downloads it in a sense | 21:21 |
| notmyname | b1airo: yes, absolutely! | 21:21 |
| zioproto | seattleplus: object storage is slow if you have to list many objects in the bucket, is not trivial how to organize the data | 21:21 |
| dfflanders | priteau, mt two pence = etherpad | 21:21 |
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| dfflanders | chairs, do we see an action coming from this, or potentially a lead who can take this forward? | 21:22 |
| oneswig | If an activity area is a combination of a goal and overcoming obstacles, we've got a great case here | 21:22 |
| b1airo | priteau, dfflanders - agreed, etherpad for now until we have something written up | 21:22 |
| zioproto | etherpad is good to me | 21:22 |
| dfflanders | +1 oneswig | 21:22 |
| b1airo | oneswig, +1 this looks like a good topic | 21:22 |
| b1airo | there's lots of little areas inside it as well, e.g., object store design for large clouds etc | 21:23 |
| oneswig | So that seems like 2 winners discussed so far - this and identity federation. What shall we cover next, before we get on to assigning leads? | 21:23 |
| zioproto | at switch we published a demo tutorial how to consume data with Hadoop from swiftfs #link https://github.com/switch-ch/hadoop-swift-tutorial | 21:23 |
| * dfflanders looks at etherpad from barcelona | 21:24 | |
| oneswig | I had one to propose based on discussions outside of the meeting - telemetry and monitoring. Any interest in that? | 21:24 |
| zioproto | oneswig: but that stuff is a bit generic and not really focus on 'scientific wg', am I right ? | 21:25 |
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| arcimboldo | oneswig, +1 | 21:25 |
| b1airo | oneswig, sounds like one for martial | 21:25 |
| oneswig | I have an interest in connecting high-resolution telemetry data to workload manager data | 21:25 |
| oneswig | Which works its way onto our territory | 21:25 |
| zioproto | ok I think I did misunderstood the topic | 21:25 |
| oneswig | But you're right, it's a problem on everyone's minds in general | 21:25 |
| dfflanders | oneswig if not immediate interest here I would think this would be worth circulating via sceintific-wg rolodex ? | 21:26 |
| b1airo | dfflanders, mailing list perhaps | 21:26 |
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| b1airo | prefer not to direct email people unsolicited | 21:27 |
| oneswig | dfflanders: I'm hesitant to mail a massive distribution too often - keep the powder dry for whne you really need it | 21:27 |
| dfflanders | timecheck = half way done | 21:27 |
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| dfflanders | oneswig blairo understood and agreed :) | 21:27 |
| oneswig | OK - the other candidates to discuss - perhaps park this one in reserve | 21:28 |
| martial | oneswig: I am very interested in the telemetry and monitoring | 21:28 |
| b1airo | oneswig, what's the problem you are trying to solve here? | 21:28 |
| martial | oneswig: we are developing tools for that, I "quickly" presented those in the BoF talk | 21:28 |
| oneswig | b1airo: user-sourced telemetry data is part of it. Understanding our system's performance is the rest | 21:29 |
| b1airo | other thing i wanted to discuss today is creating a HPC/Research Challenges/Gaps list that we could share with the community | 21:29 |
| dfflanders | +1 | 21:29 |
| oneswig | b1airo: Is that an activity area? | 21:30 |
| oneswig | for ocata? | 21:30 |
| b1airo | oneswig, user-sourced... as in they can feed telemetry data into the system in order to make scaling decisions etc? | 21:30 |
| oneswig | More like MPI performance profiling I have in mind | 21:30 |
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| b1airo | oneswig, it could be a standing activity | 21:31 |
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| oneswig | What activities were there around GPGPUs - anyone want to make a case? | 21:31 |
| b1airo | oneswig, so the underlying problem is that of mashing together data from the user environment and the infrastructure into something meaningful? | 21:32 |
| oneswig | b1airo: yes - something to view performance telemetry from many contexts | 21:32 |
| b1airo | oneswig, i think writing something up about how to make them work and any caveats would be very useful | 21:32 |
| oneswig | and correlate | 21:32 |
| arcimboldo | I get asked often question like "my app is slower on your VM than on my laptop" | 21:33 |
| b1airo | that's an activity i'd be able to lead without too much trouble | 21:33 |
| oneswig | b1airo: will do | 21:33 |
| arcimboldo | turns out it was a VM with overcommit and running on an old machine. But for the user it might be as everything is the same | 21:33 |
| oneswig | #action oneswig to elaborate on the case for telemetry | 21:33 |
| b1airo | arcimboldo, yes that statement sounds familiar | 21:33 |
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| arcimboldo | On their defense, we are not giving any tool to predict the performance of the VM, not even after instance creation | 21:34 |
| oneswig | The lingering question of "why did my app run slow" can get much trickier to answer in a cloud environment | 21:34 |
| arcimboldo | or to check how fast is the vvm | 21:34 |
| b1airo | regarding performance, i have some anecdotal evidence from M3 of applications that suffer very bad degradation without the appropriate pinning and topology | 21:34 |
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| b1airo | e.g. almost an order of magnitude! | 21:35 |
| oneswig | b1airo: strewth | 21:35 |
| b1airo | yeah, will try and get some real numbers for this particular case before SC | 21:35 |
| oneswig | GPGPUs anyone? | 21:36 |
| b1airo | oneswig, +1 | 21:36 |
| powerd | +1 on the GPUs | 21:36 |
| arcimboldo | tome the problem with GPU is that it's a scarse resource and you can't really do overbooking | 21:36 |
| dfflanders | +1 | 21:36 |
| martial | testing them in production | 21:37 |
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| arcimboldo | I don't know what's the general feeling. I feel like gpus still work best with a batch system | 21:37 |
| b1airo | re. that nomad project currently doesn't talk about gpgpu, seems more focused on NFV stuff? | 21:37 |
| martial | b1airo: it is very undefined yet | 21:37 |
| oneswig | martial: what was the session like? | 21:38 |
| martial | b1airo: was at the Design summit session | 21:38 |
| martial | b1airo: they discussed the first steps to create the API | 21:38 |
| b1airo | arcimboldo, we run a batch system (SLURM) on top of openstack, it then handles the job scheduling for GPGPU flavors | 21:38 |
| martial | details at: https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/nomad-ocata-design-session | 21:38 |
| b1airo | we also have some users who just want a CUDA dev environment, in which case an on-demand VM is good | 21:39 |
| b1airo | martial, thanks will take a look | 21:39 |
| oneswig | Are we including Xeon Phi in this? | 21:39 |
| oneswig | ... anyone for phi? | 21:39 |
| b1airo | why not? i have no direct experience, but sounds like it works | 21:39 |
| oneswig | me neither | 21:39 |
| * dfflanders would like to learn more | 21:39 | |
| oneswig | OK, motion carried. One to go. | 21:40 |
| powerd | so phi seems a different beast in its latest incarnation - no a PCI devices / cores dont support VM | 21:40 |
| b1airo | at least with older gen phi, not sure whether the computing model of the current ones works...? | 21:40 |
| martial | we have done some testing for Deep Neural Network and our depth was too little to trigger the Phi :( | 21:40 |
| dfflanders | timecheck = 20 min remaining | 21:40 |
| oneswig | Anyone to step forward with a final activity area proposal? | 21:40 |
| * arcimboldo still doesn't understand what nomad is exactly | 21:40 | |
| oneswig | we now have 4 | 21:40 |
| b1airo | what's the list now oneswig ? | 21:41 |
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| oneswig | id federation, big data / sahara / datasets, gpu, monitoring - in that order | 21:41 |
| dfflanders | time for people to o/ as activity leads? | 21:41 |
| martial | arcimboldo: an absrtaction layer for hardware, see https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Nomad | 21:41 |
| dfflanders | also noting that this agenda item might need to be carried on to next meeting due to jetlags and tz differences? | 21:42 |
| arcimboldo | martial, a kernel then? :) | 21:42 |
| zioproto | martial: it is a hardware salad, GPUs for HPC and Network chips for IPSec encpryption ... | 21:42 |
| oneswig | dfflanders: good point, perhaps ratify a list next week | 21:43 |
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| oneswig | OK - any more on activity areas? | 21:43 |
| oneswig | Do I have any volunteers for leading? | 21:43 |
| oneswig | I'm happy to do monitoring (since I'm doing it at work) | 21:44 |
| powerd | happy to take on some gpu work! | 21:44 |
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| zioproto | oneswig: can you explain exactly what one should do when leading ? | 21:44 |
| oneswig | zioproto: good point, here's what I'd guess - track activities, represent the group, help advocate the use case at the forum in boston | 21:45 |
| martial | zioproto: participate in meetings, discuss the topics on MLs and interact tiwht people | 21:45 |
| b1airo | zioproto, herd cats towards some sort of outcome, however minor that might be...? :-) | 21:45 |
| dfflanders | +1 oneswig zioproto mt two pence : at a minimum attend meetings and report on progress + push forward any arising actions. | 21:45 |
| oneswig | in the case of big data, make sure the issue you raised is followed through for example | 21:45 |
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| martial | zioproto: given that you are working on it already, sounds like a good fit too | 21:46 |
| zioproto | ok, I already do all this stuff but I am afraid to take officially the lead, cant be sure I will be there in Boston | 21:46 |
| dfflanders | blair, +1 cat herding ftw ;-D | 21:46 |
| martial | b1airo: at times, herding cats sounds easier though | 21:46 |
| zioproto | I talk for Scientific Dataset | 21:46 |
| dfflanders | I will help support you zioproto if you lead | 21:46 |
| oneswig | zioproto: I'm unable to attend Boston either, alas - ain't going to stop me :-) | 21:46 |
| b1airo | powerd, sorry if i've missed this, but who are you? :-) | 21:46 |
| oneswig | zioproto: has taken the kings shilling :-) | 21:47 |
| dfflanders | zioproto, if its travel funding we should get your application in for travel support | 21:47 |
| zioproto | may I confirm this lead thing at the next IRC meeting ? we have the topic also in the next agenda ? | 21:47 |
| oneswig | zioproto: sure, no problem | 21:47 |
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| martial | oneswig: we will talk on the monitoring, I am working on telemetry too, would love to know more about your model | 21:47 |
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| b1airo | all - regarding weekly meetings and agendas, oneswig and i sort of realised late last cycle that we should be pretty much repeating the agenda over the two different time slots so that we give everyone a chance to be on the same page | 21:48 |
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| powerd | aha - yes i should really have opened with that ;) David Power (working with a number of Unis on HPC, a number of whom now using openstack) | 21:48 |
| oneswig | martial: that would be great - I've already made an action to elaborate on it... | 21:48 |
| dfflanders | +1 blair the WG has gotten to that size/distribution, it is unavoidable | 21:48 |
| powerd | (based in Ireland) | 21:48 |
| b1airo | powerd, cool! you are a consultant then? | 21:48 |
| b1airo | would you mind adding yourself to https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/scientific-wg-rolodex ? | 21:49 |
| zioproto | dfflanders: should not be a problem the travel expenses, just I have to check other activities going on in my radar :) thanks for asking | 21:49 |
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| oneswig | powerd: a hearty welcome to the WG! | 21:50 |
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| powerd | Sort of, few hats including Boston Ltd / vScaler | 21:50 |
| dfflanders | zioproto, kewly-o | 21:50 |
| powerd | thanks Stig! | 21:50 |
| martial | interestingly, telemetry is not on the Etherpad | 21:50 |
| martial | down to 10 minutes ? | 21:50 |
| dfflanders | +1 welcome welcome | 21:50 |
| oneswig | OK nobody yet has come forward for our most popular - identity federation. Nobody else have this in their in-tray? | 21:50 |
| dfflanders | this worth noting re Boston Cloud Declaration meeting as well. | 21:50 |
| dfflanders | this worth noting re Boston Cloud Declaration meeting as well. | 21:50 |
| oneswig | martial: no - only remembered it afterwards! Will retrofit | 21:51 |
| zioproto | at SWITCH we want to implement it asap | 21:51 |
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| b1airo | oneswig, we can wait to see if anyone else volunteers interest next week or on the mailing list | 21:51 |
| dfflanders | zioproto, Jisc might support this work? | 21:51 |
| b1airo | also worth noting Khalil's work on this already | 21:51 |
| zioproto | but we have to carefully integrate it in our production system, it is not a easy migration from the existing running stuff | 21:51 |
| dfflanders | sorry rather powerd --> jisc might support the identity fed work? | 21:52 |
| zioproto | guys when you say themailing list, which ML exactly ? | 21:52 |
| oneswig | b1airo: next week looks good for a leader | 21:52 |
| dfflanders | +1 | 21:52 |
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| oneswig | zioproto: usually operators gets the right audience | 21:53 |
| dfflanders | also good to get redundacy with two leaders per activity where possible \o/ FTW | 21:53 |
| zioproto | dfflanders: most tools are there now with Mitaka. We need to upgrade the production infrastructure to Mitaka and start the testing of Keystone+Shibboleth. | 21:53 |
| b1airo | powerd, great, and welcome! we can collaborate on the GPU stuff | 21:53 |
| zioproto | that is the current status | 21:53 |
| powerd | blario: thanks - looking forward to it! | 21:53 |
| b1airo | ok we need to wrap up | 21:53 |
| b1airo | last quick discussion on SC | 21:53 |
| b1airo | #topic SC16 | 21:54 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "SC16 (Meeting topic: scientific_wg)" | 21:54 | |
| oneswig | with ID federation, what I miss most is the information in one place | 21:54 |
| dfflanders | Khalil is helping put together a congress for international federation between academic clouds... | 21:54 |
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| b1airo | oneswig, +1 an overview doc would be a great start! | 21:54 |
| martial | here is what I have so far, missing anything? Telemetry oneswig martial | 21:54 |
| martial | Scientific Dataset zioproto | 21:54 |
| martial | GPGPU powerd | 21:54 |
| zioproto | dfflanders: do you have a link ? | 21:54 |
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| dfflanders | ping me email, I'll FWD info | 21:54 |
| oneswig | martial: looks good to me | 21:54 |
| dfflanders | flanders@openstack.org | 21:55 |
| oneswig | add b1airo to GPGPU I think | 21:55 |
| dfflanders | +1 NVIDIA can sponsor the next social evening ;-) | 21:55 |
| b1airo | yeah, have some work to do on that this cycle | 21:55 |
| b1airo | +1000 | 21:55 |
| oneswig | zioproto: I think Simon has had contact with Khalil's discussions from previous WG IRC meeting | 21:55 |
| martial | nobody on federation ? | 21:56 |
| dfflanders | blair, I've already pinged Mike | 21:56 |
| oneswig | martial: not this week - carry over | 21:56 |
| oneswig | martial: zioproto also pending confirmaiton next week | 21:56 |
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| b1airo | dfflanders, for sydney summit? | 21:56 |
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| martial | okay added to etherpad | 21:57 |
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| oneswig | dfflanders: there was some discussion on Foundation helping organise WG evening socials - hope it wont get forgotten! | 21:57 |
| dfflanders | blair, for all of 2017 ;-) | 21:57 |
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| oneswig | b1airo: what to raise on SC activities? | 21:57 |
| b1airo | oneswig, main thing was that the foundation seemed keen to do some promotion via superuser blog or some such | 21:58 |
| dfflanders | #action foundation via dfflanders to support organising sponsorship for scientific_wg social evening in Boston | 21:58 |
| oneswig | good point b1airo | 21:58 |
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| oneswig | needs doing by next meeting I guess? | 21:58 |
| b1airo | there were some comments added to the etherpad #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/scientific-wg-supercomputing16 | 21:58 |
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| b1airo | yeah asap i'd say | 21:58 |
| oneswig | Who was the superuser contact? Nicole? | 21:59 |
| dfflanders | Allison | 21:59 |
| dfflanders | or Nicole | 21:59 |
| b1airo | #action b1airo to follow up with Denise re. SC activity promotion | 21:59 |
| oneswig | I see denise in the etherpad | 21:59 |
| b1airo | i'll send some email and CC you guys | 22:00 |
| dfflanders | Denise for SC, Allison for SU | 22:00 |
| oneswig | grand | 22:00 |
| b1airo | ok we're out of time | 22:00 |
| b1airo | thanks for a very lively session all!! | 22:00 |
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| oneswig | what a session! | 22:00 |
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| dfflanders | hasta luego | 22:00 |
| zioproto | thanks ! | 22:00 |
| simon-AS559 | bye | 22:00 |
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| martial | good bye | 22:00 |
| oneswig | thanks all | 22:00 |
| powerd | ta! | 22:00 |
| * dfflanders misses jamon | 22:00 | |
| b1airo | #endmeeting | 22:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 22:01 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Nov 1 22:01:03 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 22:01 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/scientific_wg/2016/scientific_wg.2016-11-01-21.02.html | 22:01 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/scientific_wg/2016/scientific_wg.2016-11-01-21.02.txt | 22:01 |
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| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/scientific_wg/2016/scientific_wg.2016-11-01-21.02.log.html | 22:01 |
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| b1airo | dfflanders, i know right - so good | 22:01 |
| priteau | good bye! | 22:01 |
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| b1airo | what food is boston known for? | 22:01 |
| oneswig | dfflanders: you should have come for the lamb my friend :-) | 22:01 |
| oneswig | is beer a food? | 22:01 |
| dfflanders | can't wait for PTG so I can have some time to actually enjoy the places we visit :( | 22:02 |
| dfflanders | only time I get to the city was with you two for breakfast | 22:02 |
| priteau | b1airo: Clam Chowder? | 22:02 |
| dfflanders | yes plz | 22:02 |
| dfflanders | mmmm boston clam chowder | 22:03 |
| oneswig | lobster, baked beans (probably not together) | 22:03 |
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| dfflanders | l8ers | 22:03 |
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| b1airo | oneswig, heh sounds very sophisticated | 22:03 |
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| oneswig | b1airo: you know what I'm like :-) | 22:04 |
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| b1airo | over and out | 22:04 |
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