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| anteaya | #startmeeting third-party | 08:02 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Jun 16 08:02:41 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is anteaya. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 08:02 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 08:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: third-party)" | 08:02 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'third_party' | 08:02 |
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| anteaya | if you are here for the third party meeting raise your hand | 08:03 |
| anteaya | say hello | 08:03 |
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| eantyshev | hello! | 08:03 |
| anteaya | hello eantyshev | 08:03 |
| anteaya | how are you? | 08:04 |
| eantyshev | anteaya: Fine, got a couple questions | 08:04 |
| anteaya | eantyshev: go ahead | 08:04 |
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| anteaya | eantyshev: did you want to post your questions? | 08:06 |
| eantyshev | current regex for 'recheck' triggers some unrelated CIs, for example https://review.openstack.org/#/c/190273/ patchset 9 | 08:06 |
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| anteaya | yes | 08:08 |
| eantyshev | Is it acceptable to narrow the scope of CI to not react to those? | 08:08 |
| anteaya | we have no control over what syntax a ci uses for recheck | 08:08 |
| anteaya | aslo recheck should fire everything | 08:08 |
| anteaya | because otherwise you could just recheck until you got the result you wanted | 08:09 |
| anteaya | rather than having all the tests run you just pick | 08:09 |
| anteaya | recheck a | 08:09 |
| anteaya | recheck a | 08:09 |
| anteaya | recheck a | 08:09 |
| anteaya | until a passes and then | 08:09 |
| anteaya | recheck b | 08:09 |
| anteaya | recheck b | 08:09 |
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| anteaya | until you get the result you wanted | 08:09 |
| lennyb | Hi. If recheck fires everything why do we need regex with a proper third party name there ? | 08:09 |
| anteaya | this allows patches with race conditions into master | 08:09 |
| eantyshev | but 'recheck a' triggers Jenkins jobs too | 08:10 |
| anteaya | we never asked for a regex with a third party name | 08:10 |
| anteaya | that is just what ci operators did | 08:10 |
| anteaya | yes recheck fires jenkins jobs | 08:10 |
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| lennyb | I see, so basically I can use another keyword to trigger my CI only. | 08:11 |
| anteaya | if that is your choice | 08:11 |
| anteaya | infra has no enforcement of any recheck syntax | 08:11 |
| eantyshev | ok, so it's acceptable for our CI to react to bare 'recheck' and 'recheck Virtuozzo6 CI'? | 08:11 |
| anteaya | if that is your choice | 08:11 |
| anteaya | infra has no enforcement of any recheck syntax | 08:11 |
| eantyshev | what are the reasons to do recheck when it's not requested? | 08:12 |
| eantyshev | to show some stability? | 08:12 |
| anteaya | recheck means to run the tests | 08:13 |
| anteaya | if recheck is the comment running the tests is requested | 08:13 |
| anteaya | did you not understand my example above? | 08:13 |
| anteaya | you run the tests or you don't | 08:13 |
| anteaya | you don't get to chose which tests you run | 08:13 |
| anteaya | you run them all | 08:13 |
| eantyshev | I think I understand | 08:14 |
| anteaya | eantyshev: great | 08:14 |
| anteaya | did you have other questions today? | 08:15 |
| eantyshev | yes | 08:15 |
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| eantyshev | many third parties have different accounts for different projects | 08:15 |
| anteaya | okay | 08:16 |
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| eantyshev | does that mean they run separate Zuul server for each? | 08:16 |
| anteaya | no idea | 08:16 |
| lennyb | we are using 2 zuuls for 2 different CIs | 08:17 |
| anteaya | I would guess some do and some don't | 08:17 |
| anteaya | we have no way to track who does or does not | 08:17 |
| anteaya | lennyb: thanks | 08:17 |
| eantyshev | lennyb: do you run them in one VM instance? | 08:17 |
| lennyb | I dont think there is a technical problem to use 1 zuuls. | 08:17 |
| lennyb | no we use 2 VMs | 08:17 |
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| lennyb | no. We use 2 VMs | 08:18 |
| anteaya | I don't think running more than one zuul on a single server is a good idea | 08:18 |
| anteaya | but I don't know for sure | 08:18 |
| anteaya | but it wouldn't be an initial choice I made | 08:18 |
| anteaya | just like nodepool needs its own network | 08:19 |
| anteaya | I would allocate zuul its own server | 08:19 |
| eantyshev | lennyb: do you have common jenkins, nodepool, etc. for these CIs? | 08:19 |
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| lennyb | agreed, you also use zuul user with it's environment and configuration, so I think it will be very tricky ( if possible ) to configure 2 zuuls on the same machine | 08:20 |
| lennyb | we have Jenkins, Zuul, JJB. no nodepool. | 08:20 |
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| eantyshev | anteaya: we came to the point where we need to split one CI account in 2 | 08:21 |
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| lennyb | btw, we do run NOvaCI and Neutron CI on the same Jenkins Master and zuul, but when our account was disabled due to Neutron CI, Nova CI was disabled as well. | 08:21 |
| anteaya | eantyshev: okay | 08:21 |
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| eantyshev | anteaya: just interested how others do | 08:23 |
| anteaya | eantyshev: of course | 08:23 |
| anteaya | eantyshev: any other questions? | 08:24 |
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| anteaya | lennyb: how are you doing today? | 08:25 |
| eantyshev | anteaya: have to draw somebody's attention to https://review.openstack.org/188383 | 08:25 |
| anteaya | lennyb: was there anything you wanted to discuss? | 08:25 |
| anteaya | eantyshev: what do you want them to see on 188383? | 08:25 |
| lennyb | anteaya: thanks. How are you? BTW, I met jogo yesterday. NO, I have nothing to discuss. | 08:26 |
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| anteaya | lennyb: wonderful | 08:26 |
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| anteaya | eantyshev: you see there is a -1 on your patch | 08:26 |
| anteaya | eantyshev: jim would like you to provide a test | 08:27 |
| eantyshev | anteaya: I want it merged, since all prerequisites are met | 08:27 |
| anteaya | eantyshev: you have a -1 | 08:27 |
| anteaya | and a request for a test | 08:27 |
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| anteaya | not all prerequistes are met | 08:27 |
| anteaya | jim wrote zuul | 08:27 |
| eantyshev | anteaya: https://review.openstack.org/191588 | 08:27 |
| eantyshev | anteaya: it's in dependent review | 08:28 |
| anteaya | did you say so in the patch? | 08:28 |
| anteaya | have you talked to jim about having the test as a dependent patch? | 08:28 |
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| anteaya | so you are linking in the meeting so other operators are aware? | 08:29 |
| anteaya | that's fine | 08:29 |
| anteaya | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/188383/ | 08:29 |
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| anteaya | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/191588/ | 08:29 |
| anteaya | thanks for doing thts work | 08:29 |
| eantyshev | anteaya: hope this will help, thanks! | 08:29 |
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| anteaya | eantyshev: I do suggest you find jeblair in infra during north american daylight hours to discuss your approach with him | 08:30 |
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| anteaya | as he may want the test in the same patch as the code | 08:30 |
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| eantyshev | anteaya: I will discuss it with him | 08:32 |
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| anteaya | eantyshev: great | 08:32 |
| anteaya | anything else for this meeting? | 08:32 |
| lennyb | no. | 08:34 |
| eantyshev | no | 08:34 |
| anteaya | does anyone else have any items for this meeting? | 08:34 |
| anteaya | okay great | 08:34 |
| anteaya | well I won't keep you if we are finshed our discussion | 08:35 |
| anteaya | thanks for the chat | 08:35 |
| anteaya | :) | 08:35 |
| lennyb | thanks. buy. | 08:35 |
| eantyshev | thanks! | 08:35 |
| anteaya | I appreciate your attendance and participation | 08:35 |
| lennyb | bye :) | 08:35 |
| anteaya | see you next week | 08:35 |
| anteaya | #endmeeting | 08:35 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 08:35 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Jun 16 08:35:34 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 08:35 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/third_party/2015/third_party.2015-06-16-08.02.html | 08:35 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/third_party/2015/third_party.2015-06-16-08.02.txt | 08:35 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/third_party/2015/third_party.2015-06-16-08.02.log.html | 08:35 |
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| Qiming | #startmeeting senlin | 13:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Jun 16 13:00:29 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is Qiming. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 13:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 13:00 |
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| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: senlin)" | 13:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'senlin' | 13:00 |
| Qiming | #topic roll call | 13:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "roll call (Meeting topic: senlin)" | 13:00 | |
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| lkarm | o/ | 13:01 |
| janonymous_ | o/ | 13:01 |
| haiwei | hi | 13:01 |
| janonymous_ | Jaivish Kothari | 13:01 |
| Qiming | don't think a lot of us will show up, this is the first meeting for senlin anyway | 13:01 |
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| Qiming | #topic get to know each other | 13:02 |
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| haiwei | at least four :) | 13:02 |
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| Qiming | I'm expecting everyone to say a few words about yourself | 13:03 |
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| haiwei | ok, I am xuhaiwei from NEC, nice to meet you | 13:03 |
| haiwei | I am in Tokyo | 13:03 |
| Qiming | so people get to know your name, where you are located, and your expertise, etc | 13:03 |
| janonymous_ | Hi i am Jaivish from NEC :) india | 13:04 |
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| lkarm | Hi, i'm Lisa from IBM in Austin, TX | 13:04 |
| Qiming | Qiming Teng, with IBM Research, in China | 13:04 |
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| haiwei | currently four of us? | 13:05 |
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| janonymous_ | I normally work in swift , keystone and ceilometer . | 13:06 |
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| Qiming | anyone else? | 13:06 |
| haiwei | janonymous, you are in India office? | 13:06 |
| Qiming | cool, not a big team so far | 13:06 |
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| Qiming | let's move on | 13:07 |
| Qiming | #topic project status report | 13:07 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "project status report (Meeting topic: senlin)" | 13:07 | |
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| Qiming | Senlin was started last December, positioned as a generic clustering service for OpenStack | 13:07 |
| Qiming | the project is now located on stackforge, with both server side and client side code | 13:08 |
| Qiming | we have presented the design in the Heat design summit, because we were deeply rooted from Heat | 13:08 |
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| janonymous_ | haiwei : yes . | 13:08 |
| Qiming | the top priority for the project for the first release (Liberty) would be making autoscaling work | 13:09 |
| Qiming | and hopefully, bridge the Heat support to autoscaling to Senlin | 13:09 |
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| haiwei | Qiming, so how far are we there? | 13:09 |
| Qiming | there are a lot of work to do for us to achieve that goal | 13:09 |
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| Qiming | to support autoscaling, we are developing a scaling policy spec and the supporting plugin | 13:10 |
| Qiming | hopefully, that will be done by Liberty-2 | 13:10 |
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| janonymous_ | Yes i am ready to work hard . but i could only work after my office hours because it's my priority :) . will that be ok? | 13:11 |
| Qiming | I have to say, it is not a trivial thing, considering that we may need to explore message queue service (zaqar) some time | 13:11 |
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| Qiming | sure | 13:11 |
| Qiming | any kinds of contributions are welcomed, sir | 13:11 |
| janonymous_ | Thanks :) | 13:11 |
| Qiming | time for you to pour questions on me | 13:12 |
| haiwei | what about the short time goal? | 13:12 |
| haiwei | short-term | 13:12 |
| Qiming | supporting autoscaling is pretty short-term a goal | 13:13 |
| janonymous_ | Sorry to say but i want to know about senlin , i have very little idea about it. | 13:13 |
| Qiming | janonymous_, don't worry | 13:13 |
| Qiming | we are working hard to add some documents for developers | 13:13 |
| Qiming | for example: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/190447/ | 13:14 |
| Qiming | you can find us on the #senlin channel most of the time, just jump in and ask questions | 13:14 |
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| janonymous_ | Yes sure sir. is there a mailing list , group for serlin also ? | 13:15 |
| haiwei | Qiming, what is not done to support auto-scaling | 13:15 |
| Qiming | haiwei, the scaling policy is not done | 13:15 |
| Qiming | we have some dependencies on python-openstacksdk project | 13:15 |
| lkarm | Just to understand where this is going, once senlin has the scaling policies implemented, the idea is to have something like OS::Senlin::Cluster OS::Senlin::Policy in a heat template to do autoscaling through heat? But then you can also do autoscaling without heat at all right? | 13:15 |
| Qiming | we need to push some patches there first | 13:16 |
| Qiming | lkarm, right | 13:16 |
| Qiming | If you are using Heat for autoscaling, we don't want to break you | 13:17 |
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| Qiming | however, Senlin has its own APIs and client, that means you can do autoscaling in other ways as well | 13:17 |
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| lkarm | are you planning on implementing scaling policies in a similar way heat implemented them? | 13:18 |
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| Qiming | lkarm, yes and no, from user's perspective, we hope we can support their existing autoscaling templates | 13:18 |
| Qiming | but implementation perspective, there will be quite some differences | 13:19 |
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| Qiming | for example, we don't want users to specify alarms, at least that is our current idea | 13:19 |
| Qiming | you can check the senlin/examples/policies subdirectory to see how scaling policies will look like | 13:20 |
| lkarm | by that you mean no ceilometer dependencies required to do autoscaling? | 13:20 |
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| Qiming | lkarm, the dependency may exist, but won't be hard-coded | 13:20 |
| Qiming | we plan to provide users a choice, use ceilometer, monasca, or whatever 3rd-party monitoring tools | 13:21 |
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| Qiming | there are plenty of details to be discussed | 13:22 |
| Qiming | What I want to say in this meeting is that we need to make all of them a team decision | 13:22 |
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| Qiming | scaling policy is just one type of policies to be supported, for example | 13:23 |
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| Qiming | we want to support placement policies, deletion policies, update policies, etc | 13:24 |
| Qiming | these policies are all plugins that you can instantiate and attach to a cluster | 13:24 |
| Qiming | we believe they are orthogonal to each other | 13:24 |
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| Qiming | we also plan to submit a talk proposal for the coming Tokyo summit, give the community a deep dive and status update | 13:25 |
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| Qiming | there have been some requests for Senlin to support clusters of containers, for instance | 13:25 |
| yanyanhu | hi, sorry for late, using my phone as hot spot | 13:25 |
| lkarm | does that mean magnum integration? | 13:26 |
| Qiming | in that case, Magnum will call senlin to create their pool of containers | 13:26 |
| haiwei | Qiming, that is an important job I think | 13:26 |
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| janonymous_ | Apart from senlin wiki ,can i get more info about it. because i m not from heat background so i would be needing some docs. | 13:27 |
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| Qiming | yip, we have talked to Adrian and Steven Dake for this, the only concern they have today is that we are still on stackforge | 13:27 |
| Qiming | and they want no dependencies on stackforge projects | 13:27 |
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| lkarm | so what is the plan for moving from stackforge | 13:28 |
| Qiming | janonymous_, okay, we will work on more docs | 13:28 |
| haiwei | so it's better to push openstacksdk to be a openstack project | 13:28 |
| yanyanhu | or maybe we can start to implement some drivers directly based on other services client? | 13:28 |
| Qiming | Senlin project itself, based on the community's criteria, can be proposed as a openstack project today | 13:28 |
| haiwei | janonymous_, maybe understanding heat autoscaling first is helpful | 13:29 |
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| Qiming | the only reason we are not pushing that line is that we have dependencies on python-openstacksdk | 13:29 |
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| Qiming | and python-opentacksdk is today a stackforge project | 13:29 |
| Qiming | we are actively helping that project as well | 13:29 |
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| haiwei | python-openstacksdk can be a openstack project today, but they just don't want to be? | 13:30 |
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| Qiming | em, don't have an answer for that, haiwei | 13:30 |
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| Qiming | Seems to me, though, the SDK project wants their API design stabilized before proposing | 13:31 |
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| Qiming | that makes sense to me | 13:31 |
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| Qiming | and ... it will just be a issue of time | 13:31 |
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| haiwei | how long it will take ? | 13:31 |
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| Qiming | yanyanhu, if we introduce dependencies on python-***client into Senlin, we are still eventually throwing them away | 13:32 |
| janonymous_ | and what can we do for that | 13:32 |
| Qiming | haiwei, not sure how long it will take | 13:32 |
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| yanyanhu | Qiming, that's true, openstack-sdk should be the choice | 13:32 |
| Qiming | my personal opinin is focus on Senlin feature development, stability improvement | 13:33 |
| haiwei | what about setting a deadline for that | 13:33 |
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| Qiming | the migration to openstack is just one of the many channels to get this service mature and widely used | 13:33 |
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| Qiming | haiwei, good point, we need to sync with SDK team on a timeline | 13:34 |
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| Qiming | #action Qiming to sync with SDK team for timeline | 13:34 |
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| yanyanhu | actually we still have several import features need to implement including customized action, complicated scaling policy | 13:34 |
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| Qiming | yanyanhu, +1 | 13:35 |
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| Qiming | let's move on | 13:35 |
| Qiming | #topic low-hanging fruits for new contributors | 13:35 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "low-hanging fruits for new contributors (Meeting topic: senlin)" | 13:35 | |
| janonymous_ | :) | 13:36 |
| Qiming | Many of us are new contributors to Senlin, or new developers for OpenStack | 13:36 |
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| Qiming | it will be a journey, but it won't be very long one | 13:36 |
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| Qiming | We are currently filing some bugs for your reference | 13:37 |
| Qiming | https://bugs.launchpad.net/senlin/ | 13:37 |
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| janonymous_ | I have question.. What about core contributors of senlin.. | 13:38 |
| Qiming | Some bugs are really easy to fix, but they will help you understand the architecture of Senlin, the development process for fixing bugs, propose patches etc. | 13:38 |
| Qiming | janonymous_, currently we have only two cores, yanyanhu and me | 13:38 |
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| Qiming | I believe we will need more soon, pretty soon | 13:38 |
| haiwei | Qiming, currently I am doing this kind of bug fix | 13:39 |
| janonymous_ | Yes , i would be one .. i hope :) | 13:39 |
| Qiming | thanks, haiwei, keep the good work | 13:39 |
| Qiming | janonymous_, you will, if you want | 13:39 |
| yanyanhu | hope you guys can get familiar with the project soon : ) | 13:39 |
| janonymous_ | Yes. | 13:40 |
| Qiming | some low hanging fruits, out of the bug list: Bug #1465565, Bug #1465211, Bug #1465509, Bug #1465518, Bug #1465620 | 13:40 |
| openstack | bug 1465565 in senlin "Policy attach should use policy defaults if not specified" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1465565 | 13:40 |
| openstack | bug 1465211 in senlin "profile type matching should be checked earlier" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1465211 | 13:40 |
| openstack | bug 1465509 in senlin "Policy attach API should perform parameter validations" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1465509 | 13:40 |
| openstack | bug 1465518 in senlin "Policy detach action API should do some early validation" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1465518 | 13:40 |
| openstack | bug 1465620 in senlin "Policy update API is not checking the JSON body" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1465620 | 13:40 |
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| Qiming | just some examples | 13:40 |
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| yanyanhu | hi, Qiming, maybe completing exception translation is also one? | 13:41 |
| Qiming | btw, we have two files maintained for short-term and long-term jobs | 13:41 |
| Qiming | yanyanhu, that sounds more like a TODO item, not a bug | 13:41 |
| yanyanhu | yes | 13:41 |
| Qiming | http://git.openstack.org/cgit/stackforge/senlin/tree/TODO.rst | 13:41 |
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| Qiming | we maintain a TODO file in the code repo, listing things we need to do | 13:42 |
| Qiming | items in the TODO.rst file doesn't require a design discussion | 13:42 |
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| Qiming | if you know how to get it done, claim it by signing your name after that item, do it | 13:43 |
| Qiming | remove it when it is finished | 13:43 |
| Qiming | another file: http://git.openstack.org/cgit/stackforge/senlin/tree/FEATURES.rst | 13:43 |
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| Qiming | this is a list of feature request we collected, most of them need some discussions among the team before coding | 13:44 |
| Qiming | feel free to start a thread on any of them | 13:44 |
| Qiming | if needed, we may create a senlin-specs project for reviewing things like these | 13:45 |
| Qiming | questions, comments, suggestions? | 13:45 |
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| janonymous_ | that was helpful. | 13:46 |
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| Qiming | the FEATURES.rst, to some extent, give you a sense where we are heading, hopefully | 13:46 |
| Qiming | okay, let's move on | 13:47 |
| Qiming | #topic open discussions | 13:47 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open discussions (Meeting topic: senlin)" | 13:47 | |
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| yanyanhu | hi, Qiming, do we need to arrange some phone calls to answer some questions which may need detailed explaination? | 13:48 |
| Qiming | during the Vancouver summit, I met some guys from Alcatel-Lucent, they may join us some day | 13:49 |
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| haiwei | good news | 13:49 |
| janonymous_ | Kindly add me on your mailing lists if possible. janonymous.codevulture@gmail.com | 13:49 |
| Qiming | phone calls? we can discuss that | 13:49 |
| Qiming | janonymous_, all openstack/stackforge projects are supposed to use the official mailinglist for discussion | 13:50 |
| haiwei | phone calls means call by phone??:) | 13:50 |
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| yanyanhu | yes ;) | 13:50 |
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| haiwei | personal phone call? | 13:50 |
| Qiming | when posting your message, be sure to tag your subject with '[Senlin]' so that people can filter it | 13:50 |
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| yanyanhu | hmm, not sure about the way | 13:51 |
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| haiwei | I will add your wechat :) | 13:51 |
| yanyanhu | nice | 13:51 |
| Qiming | phone calls in general is not encouraged, if I'm understanding it correctly | 13:51 |
| Qiming | it is kind of private communication | 13:51 |
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| yanyanhu | yes, I mean something like call conference | 13:52 |
| haiwei | i agree with you | 13:52 |
| Qiming | I believe all discussions should be open to the public | 13:52 |
| yanyanhu | if we can find a way to let everybody join | 13:52 |
| yanyanhu | ok, agree | 13:52 |
| janonymous_ | +1 | 13:52 |
| Qiming | yep, stay awake on the #senlin channel, be an answer machine, :) | 13:52 |
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| haiwei | Qiming, that's great | 13:53 |
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| haiwei | what about your back?:) | 13:53 |
| Qiming | not good, recovering | 13:53 |
| lkarm | yep I think IRC is best way to commuincate and discuss | 13:53 |
| Qiming | yes, lkarm | 13:53 |
| haiwei | agree | 13:53 |
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| yanyanhu | so let join the channel :) | 13:54 |
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| Qiming | eventually, when we become an openstack project, IRC chats will be logged, you can find whatever discussions you have missed | 13:54 |
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| lkarm | ah I was wondering why they weren't currently being logged | 13:54 |
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| Qiming | that said, the best way to answer questions at the moment is to work on some documents, for users, for developers | 13:55 |
| haiwei | stackforge project doesn't have the right? | 13:55 |
| Qiming | haiwei, I don't think so, maybe I'm missing something | 13:55 |
| Qiming | let the team know if you find a way to log the chats | 13:56 |
| yanyanhu | agree, Qiming, will try to complete the doc and wiki | 13:56 |
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| haiwei | what tool are you using? Qiming | 13:56 |
| Qiming | thanks, we then don't have to answer the same questions time and time again | 13:56 |
| yanyanhu | it's easy to miss some import topics for time difference | 13:56 |
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| Qiming | I'm using HexChat | 13:56 |
| Qiming | right | 13:57 |
| janonymous_ | whn is the next meeting.. | 13:57 |
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| Qiming | so if you have something for discussion, you may want to post a note to the mailing list | 13:57 |
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| Qiming | janonymous_, https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/SenlinAgenda | 13:57 |
| haiwei | the same time next week | 13:57 |
| Qiming | 1300 UTC, every Tuesday | 13:57 |
| janonymous_ | thank u | 13:58 |
| Qiming | time is up | 13:58 |
| Qiming | thank you all for joining | 13:58 |
| yanyanhu | thanks, ttyl | 13:58 |
| Qiming | see you, see your patches | 13:58 |
| haiwei | see you | 13:58 |
| janonymous_ | :) o/ | 13:58 |
| Qiming | discussions can continue on #senlin | 13:58 |
| Qiming | #endmeeting | 13:58 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 13:58 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Jun 16 13:58:55 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 13:58 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/senlin/2015/senlin.2015-06-16-13.00.html | 13:58 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/senlin/2015/senlin.2015-06-16-13.00.txt | 13:58 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/senlin/2015/senlin.2015-06-16-13.00.log.html | 13:58 |
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| armax | hello | 13:59 |
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| amuller | heya | 13:59 |
| ajo | :) o/ | 13:59 |
| neiljerram | hi there | 13:59 |
| xgerman | o/ | 13:59 |
| fawadkhaliq__ | Hello! | 13:59 |
| hichihara | hi | 13:59 |
| yamahata | hi | 13:59 |
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| carl_baldwin | hi | 13:59 |
| ZZelle-backup | Hi everyone | 13:59 |
| salv-orlando | aloha | 13:59 |
| Sukhdev | Good Morning | 13:59 |
| numan | hi | 14:00 |
| armax | hello! | 14:00 |
| armax | #startmeeting networking | 14:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Jun 16 14:00:07 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is armax. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 14:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 14:00 |
| janonymous_ | hi | 14:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: networking)" | 14:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'networking' | 14:00 |
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| miyagishi_t | hi | 14:00 |
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| armax | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Network/Meetings | 14:00 |
| haleyb | hi | 14:00 |
| john-davidge | hi | 14:00 |
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| mlavalle | hi | 14:00 |
| amotoki | hi | 14:00 |
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| rkukura | hi | 14:00 |
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| HenryG | o/ | 14:00 |
| armax | hi everyone! | 14:01 |
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| armax | let’s dive into the meeting! we have a packed agenda | 14:01 |
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| ihrachyshka | o/ | 14:01 |
| armax | #topic Announcements | 14:01 |
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| sc68cal | o/ | 14:02 |
| armax | there was a meeting on VLAN aware VMs yesterday | 14:02 |
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| armax | does anyone who attended care to brief the ones who didn’t? | 14:03 |
| Sukhdev | armax: etherpad says it is today | 14:03 |
| amotoki | 6/16 1700UTC is the time. | 14:03 |
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| armax | Sukhdev: thanks, it looks like the agenda is wrong | 14:03 |
| pc_m | amotoki: Which channel? | 14:03 |
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| armax | pc_m: In #openstack-meeting-4 at 1700UTC | 14:04 |
| Sukhdev | pc_m: meeting-4 | 14:04 |
| pc_m | armax: thanks | 14:04 |
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| xek | o/ | 14:04 |
| armax | ok, next….there’s still a number of spects and RFE’s in flight | 14:05 |
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| armax | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:open+project:openstack/neutron-specs,n,z | 14:05 |
| armax | the ones that do not make the cutover date of Liberty 1 | 14:05 |
| markmcclain | o/ | 14:05 |
| armax | will be abandoned and need to be resubmitted as RFE bugs | 14:06 |
| armax | as outlined here: | 14:06 |
| Sukhdev | does anyone know when is Liberty-1? | 14:06 |
| armax | #link https://github.com/openstack/neutron/blob/master/doc/source/policies/blueprints.rst#cutover-to-rfes-from-pure-specs | 14:06 |
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| armax | Sukhdev: liberty-1 (Jun 23-25) | 14:06 |
| armax | Sukhdev: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Liberty_Release_Schedule | 14:06 |
| Sukhdev | armax: thanks | 14:06 |
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| ajo | makes sense, | 14:06 |
| armax | next on the announcmement list is Feature branch setup for QoS | 14:07 |
| armax | ajo: care to spend a few words? | 14:07 |
| ajo | armax: ok :) | 14:07 |
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| ajo | We have started to work on the feature branch to develop the QoS API extension, agent functionality and anything related to that work. | 14:08 |
| armax | it looks like mestery also added a job for the pecan branch | 14:08 |
| armax | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/190756/ | 14:08 |
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| armax | ajo: is there any intention of doing something along the same lines? | 14:08 |
| ajo | we have chosen also the neutron-qos topic to put together anything related to neutron-qos (like neutronclient work) so it's easy to see everything together | 14:08 |
| ajo | armax, let me check | 14:08 |
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| ajo | armax, yes, sc68cal is going to prepare an experimental work for the branch, | 14:09 |
| armax | ajo: yes, experimental is best IMO | 14:09 |
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| ajo | ok, will do that way. | 14:09 |
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| ajo | related to the QoS branch, I've put a little devref that may deserve some review time: https://review.openstack.org/190635 (about a generic RPC callback) | 14:10 |
| armax | I have made a comment on the pecan job, I think check is a bit an overkill…perhaps kevinbenton knows more about this job configuration? | 14:10 |
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| ajo | which could be equally reused for security groups.. | 14:10 |
| armax | ajo: yes, I am on it | 14:10 |
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| armax | ajo: I was distracted by the pymysql switch | 14:11 |
| ajo | armax, thanks | 14:11 |
| ajo | I'm going to put a new revision on 30 minutes | 14:11 |
| ajo | end_of_meeting+30m | 14:11 |
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| armax | ajo: ok | 14:11 |
| armax | ok, on to the next announcement | 14:11 |
| armax | next week there’s the Neutron Liberty mid-cycle | 14:12 |
| armax | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/neutron-liberty-mid-cycle | 14:12 |
| salv-orlando | armax: my opinion on the pecan work is that it either works or not. cahnces of races are limited, so perhaps it can stay in the experimental queue | 14:12 |
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| armax | there’s also one in Europe not long after that | 14:12 |
| armax | June 30 - July 2 in Raanana, Israel (Red Hat offices) | 14:12 |
| armax | https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/neutron-liberty-qos-code-sprint | 14:13 |
| armax | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/neutron-liberty-qos-code-sprint | 14:13 |
| armax | mainly focused on qos | 14:13 |
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| armax | salv-orlando: agreed | 14:13 |
| armax | salv-orlando: I made that comment on mestery’s patch | 14:13 |
| ajo | anybody wanting to late-join the IL one, ping me anytime | 14:13 |
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| armax | ok, moving to the next topic | 14:14 |
| armax | unless there’s anyone who wants to add anything? | 14:14 |
| Sukhdev | armax: I have an announcement | 14:14 |
| armax | Sukhdev: sure | 14:14 |
| Sukhdev | I would like to direct team's attention to L2 GW work | 14:15 |
| Sukhdev | The wiki is here - https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Neutron/L2-GW | 14:15 |
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| Sukhdev | Please come and join us and provide us with additional use cases that can be implemented | 14:15 |
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| armax | thanks Sukhdev | 14:16 |
| Sukhdev | Next meeting is on 6/22 at 10am PT | 14:16 |
| armax | anyone else? | 14:16 |
| armax | ... | 14:16 |
| armax | #topic Bugs | 14:16 |
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| armax | I recall that enikanorov is no longer on the frontline for this | 14:16 |
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| armax | there are a couple of bugs that bit us last week | 14:17 |
| armax | I got here https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/1359523 and https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/1335375 | 14:17 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1359523 in neutron "Security group rules are erroneously applied to all ports having same ip addresses in different networks" [High,In progress] - Assigned to shihanzhang (shihanzhang) | 14:17 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1335375 in neutron "ping still working after security group rule is created, updated, or deleted" [High,In progress] - Assigned to shihanzhang (shihanzhang) | 14:17 |
| armax | does anyone have an update? | 14:17 |
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| * armax waits a tad longer | 14:18 | |
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| salv-orlando | I think our rtef ctl pln ltn should | 14:18 |
| armax | ok | 14:18 |
| ajo | armax, looking, I was tracking that work, but I think there's no update | 14:18 |
| armax | salv-orlando: care to explain the acronyms? | 14:18 |
| armax | I only got LTN | 14:19 |
| armax | :) | 14:19 |
| salv-orlando | armax: kevinbenton | 14:19 |
| HenryG | I suspect he is asleep | 14:19 |
| armax | salv-orlando: oh | 14:19 |
| armax | reference control plane Lieutanant | 14:19 |
| armax | salv-orlando: gee | 14:19 |
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| armax | salv-orlando: it’s still 7am here, you know? ;) | 14:19 |
| armax | ok | 14:20 |
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| armax | I’ll bug him when he wakes up | 14:20 |
| armax | last week there was a change that startled us a bit | 14:20 |
| markmcclain | I thought salv was having a little kid help at the keyboard | 14:20 |
| ajo | #action ajo contact shihanzhang about the SG bugs #1335375 and #1359523 | 14:20 |
| openstack | bug 1359523 in neutron "Security group rules are erroneously applied to all ports having same ip addresses in different networks" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1359523 - Assigned to shihanzhang (shihanzhang) | 14:20 |
| openstack | bug 1335375 in neutron "ping still working after security group rule is created, updated, or deleted" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1335375 - Assigned to shihanzhang (shihanzhang) | 14:20 |
| armax | markmcclain: lol | 14:20 |
| ajo | lol :) | 14:20 |
| armax | thanks ajo! | 14:20 |
| ajo | I will talk to him, adding a reminder here not to forget.. | 14:20 |
| armax | this change https://review.openstack.org/#/c/184383/ | 14:21 |
| armax | caused a bit of instability in the gate | 14:21 |
| armax | and caused DB functional tests to stop working | 14:21 |
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| armax | what you need to be aware of, is that the situation was quickly reverted by disabling the driver gloabally | 14:22 |
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| armax | with https://review.openstack.org/#/c/191010/ | 14:22 |
| armax | but that still kept the functional job broken | 14:22 |
| armax | amuller: keep me honest here | 14:22 |
| amuller | you're honest | 14:22 |
| amuller | carry on | 14:22 |
| ZZelle-backup | :) | 14:22 |
| armax | ZZelle-backup has a fix for it at https://review.openstack.org/#/c/190342/ | 14:23 |
| armax | as for the mysql driver | 14:23 |
| armax | we reverted the global switch here: | 14:23 |
| armax | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/191113/ | 14:23 |
| armax | but we selectively bring sanity back to the Tempest Neutron jobs by overriding the mysql driver | 14:24 |
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| armax | I filed a bunch of patches that introduce an unstable neutron job | 14:24 |
| armax | https://review.openstack.org/#/q/topic:neutron-unstable,n,z | 14:24 |
| armax | where we can test Neutron with the newer driver, without too much of an havoc | 14:24 |
| armax | the failure rate trend is available here: http://goo.gl/YM7gUC | 14:24 |
| armax | #link http://goo.gl/YM7gUC | 14:24 |
| armax | as usual kevinbenton beated us by filing https://review.openstack.org/#/c/191540/ | 14:25 |
| armax | but I suspect that needs to bake a bit | 14:25 |
| ajo | nice :) | 14:26 |
| armax | anyhow, this ramble of mine is to inform you that we’re keeping an unstable job to triage some of the stuff that threw us off | 14:26 |
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| armax | to test the new driver as well as the # of API workers that was reverted late in the Kilo cycle | 14:26 |
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| ajo | It's a good approach, so we can sort out those instabilities without affecting everyone else | 14:27 |
| armax | once we’re happy with the failure rate, we’ll go back to using pymysql driver (the one that allows us to get to Py3) and we’ll finally have multiple API workers in the gate | 14:27 |
| armax | for now, we’re a bit cautious | 14:27 |
| armax | anything else | 14:27 |
| armax | ? | 14:27 |
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| HenryG | Thanks armax for the update and for keeping on top of all this | 14:28 |
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| armax | HenryG: sure thing | 14:29 |
| armax | on if nothing else bugs us | 14:29 |
| salv-orlando | What's the opinion of the DB lieutinant on the matter? henryg? | 14:29 |
| armax | oh, salv-orlando bugs us | 14:29 |
| * armax waits | 14:29 | |
| salv-orlando | I think the approach adopted in patch #191540 pretty much uses napalm all over the problem | 14:29 |
| HenryG | salv-orlando: We see if kevinbenton's fix works for pymysql | 14:29 |
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| armax | salv-orlando: I agree | 14:30 |
| salv-orlando | HenryG: napalm fixes everything ;) | 14:30 |
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| salv-orlando | HenryG: I think we'd need to seek help from zzzeeek | 14:30 |
| armax | salv-orlando: I think that kevinbenton’s rationale is that until we get rid of the lockmode for update we’re bound to these types of races | 14:30 |
| salv-orlando | (after all he wrote he was willing to assist) | 14:30 |
| HenryG | salv-orlando: I have engaged him | 14:31 |
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| salv-orlando | HenryG: awesome | 14:31 |
| armax | salv-orlando: and he made an interesting comparison with the nova code base where they use the retry decorator extensively | 14:31 |
| armax | salv-orlando: that doesn’t mean that the retry mechanism is a good thing, btw | 14:31 |
| HenryG | He was surprised that we are getting deadlocks on insert | 14:32 |
| salv-orlando | armax: I agree at 50%. There are also cases where LOCK FOR UPDATE works fine but eventlet screws up. For those cases using the retry decorator is still far from optimal as the timeout of 50secs would still expire | 14:32 |
| ajo | ouch | 14:32 |
| salv-orlando | armax: cool, I see you guys are up to date on all pro and cons of the decorator | 14:32 |
| armax | salv-orlando: agreed…that’s why I mentioned that review 191540 needs to bake a little more | 14:32 |
| salv-orlando | I can go back in my graveyard | 14:32 |
| armax | salv-orlando: your expertise on the matter would be invaluable | 14:32 |
| ihrachyshka | salv-orlando, we should not get those timeouts with the new driver | 14:32 |
| armax | salv-orlando: so please consider reviewing the patch if you haven’t already | 14:32 |
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| armax | salv-orlando: RIP | 14:33 |
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| armax | #topic Docs | 14:33 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Docs (Meeting topic: networking)" | 14:33 | |
| ajo | ihrachyshka, salv-orlando : definitely 50 sec timeouts on ops.. don't seem good | 14:33 |
| salv-orlando | ihrachyshka: indeed, that's what I was told too, but then looking at the problem with sdague and zzzeeek it seems they were there | 14:33 |
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| ihrachyshka | meh, ok | 14:33 |
| armax | it looks like emagana is not around | 14:33 |
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| salv-orlando | ajo: that's the default mysql lock wait timeout, but it gets triggered by eventlet not being smart enough in switching threads | 14:33 |
| salv-orlando | ihrachyshka, armax, ajo, HenryG: we might need to stop wasting time about this issue now... the agenda is packed. We just need to keep eyes on that lock wait timeout are not present even if the job succeeds | 14:34 |
| armax | salv-orlando: agreed | 14:34 |
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| ajo | salv-orlando: correct | 14:34 |
| armax | anyhow, emagana is not here so we are left with | 14:34 |
| armax | #topic On Demand Agenda | 14:35 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "On Demand Agenda (Meeting topic: networking)" | 14:35 | |
| armax | got a few items here | 14:35 |
| armax | nova-network compatibility tasks | 14:35 |
| armax | #link v | 14:35 |
| armax | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/YVR-nova-network | 14:35 |
| neiljerram | I also have a thing, after yours | 14:35 |
| armax | anyone care to update on tasks being tracked here? | 14:36 |
| armax | I was looking at russellb’s devstack patches | 14:36 |
| armax | I need to go back to those | 14:36 |
| sc68cal | I'm working on the LB job, making some progress | 14:37 |
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| mlavalle | armax: I am working on priority number 4, dns | 14:37 |
| armax | mlavalle: thanks | 14:37 |
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| armax | mlavalle: how is it going? | 14:37 |
| mlavalle | the rfe is approved on the neutron side | 14:38 |
| mlavalle | I am also cleaning up a spec | 14:38 |
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| mlavalle | there is also a spec on the nova side that I am working with johnthetubaguy | 14:38 |
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| armax | mlavalle: great | 14:38 |
| neiljerram | mlavalle: Worth adding links to that etherpad? | 14:38 |
| Sukhdev | mlavalle: link? | 14:38 |
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| mlavalle | and I am already coding the neutron side. | 14:38 |
| mlavalle | nova: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/90150/ | 14:39 |
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| mlavalle | neutron: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/88623/ | 14:39 |
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| mlavalle | should push WIP code tomorrow | 14:40 |
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| armax | perhaps russellb is not around | 14:41 |
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| armax | there are a bunch of patches in flight to ensure we test rolling upgrades continously | 14:41 |
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| armax | they are captured on the etherpad…if there are eyes who are interested in looking at those, that’d be great | 14:42 |
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| armax | Distributed SNAT with DVR is still unclaimed, is it not? | 14:42 |
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| amuller | correct | 14:43 |
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| miyagishi_t | I'd like to implement Distributed SNAT in Liberty. | 14:43 |
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| armax | miyagishi_t: please put your name next to the item on the etherpad | 14:43 |
| armax | like 92 | 14:44 |
| miyagishi_t | armax: okay | 14:44 |
| armax | miyagishi_t: have you started to look into this already? | 14:44 |
| miyagishi_t | currently under discussion in our team. | 14:45 |
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| miyagishi_t | armax: I'd like to submit blueprint as soon as possible. | 14:45 |
| armax | miyagishi_t: please sync up with kevinbenton and myself | 14:45 |
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| armax | miyagishi_t: and we may be able to help you stay on the right track | 14:45 |
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| armax | miyagishi_t: get yourself familiar with the new submission process for Liberty | 14:46 |
| armax | #link https://github.com/openstack/neutron/blob/master/doc/source/policies/blueprints.rst | 14:46 |
| armax | miyagishi_t: if you aren’t already | 14:46 |
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| armax | last item I have on the nova-net laundry list is the ‘get me a network’ spec | 14:47 |
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| armax | this is still unclaimed, even though I was going to look into it as soon as I had the chance :) | 14:47 |
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| armax | sc68cal: anything on your front? | 14:48 |
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| sc68cal | armax: I think last week there were volunteers to take over the spec to fill out more of the detail? | 14:48 |
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| armax | sc68cal: ok, so you’d like someone to take over the spec as well? | 14:49 |
| salv-orlando | sc68cal: volunteers are the most volatile substance ever seen | 14:49 |
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| sc68cal | armax: I'll have to pull up the logs to remember the context - but there were volunteers | 14:49 |
| haleyb | sc68cal: do you need me to add my comments? I'm hoping I remembered things correctly | 14:49 |
| salv-orlando | armax: I can offer some part-time help | 14:49 |
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| armax | first step would be to get the spec agreed on and merged | 14:50 |
| sc68cal | haleyb: I think your comments were correct, I think if you want to add them to the spec that'd be good | 14:50 |
| amotoki | haleyb: feel free to add your comments. | 14:50 |
| armax | for that we’d need a submitter that refresh the spec everytime a reviewer makes one, so for that we’d need reviewers too | 14:50 |
| haleyb | armax: i will update the spec and try to address all the comments | 14:51 |
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| ZZelle-backup | i can | 14:51 |
| armax | sc68cal: are you going to stop updating the spec yourself? | 14:51 |
| ZZelle-backup | oups too late | 14:51 |
| haleyb | darn, i knew i should have waited :) | 14:51 |
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| armax | ok, I gather that haleyb is going to take over the submission side of things? | 14:51 |
| sc68cal | armax: I think others can update the spec based on what they remembered | 14:51 |
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| armax | sc68cal: true, but if we don’t coordinate it becomes a bit messy | 14:52 |
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| ZZelle-backup | haleyb: mouarf | 14:52 |
| armax | we might as well have people fill in the specs with comments and a single person respin the patch | 14:52 |
| armax | but either way | 14:52 |
| haleyb | i had the largest comment so i will do the next update and incorporate other comments | 14:52 |
| sc68cal | armax: ok - I'll coordinate with haleyb | 14:52 |
| armax | sc68cal: thanks | 14:53 |
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| armax | haleyb: thanks | 14:53 |
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| armax | we’ll leave the last item on the nova-net agenda for next week | 14:53 |
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| armax | #action armax reminds mestery to read the meeting log | 14:53 |
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| armax | we got a few minutes to spare, is there anything else someone would like to bring up to the team’s attention? | 14:54 |
| neiljerram | Another Nova/Neutron thing, although not nova-net.... | 14:54 |
| neiljerram | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/162468/ | 14:54 |
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| pc_m | Can folks kindly look at https://review.openstack.org/191944? Would like to get community feedback on direction here. | 14:54 |
| neiljerram | This is about the future of VIF plugging... | 14:54 |
| hichihara | Can I ask core team about metaplugin deprecation? | 14:54 |
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| john-davidge | Would appreciate some more attention on the IPv6 Prefix Delegation work as well https://review.openstack.org/#/c/158697 | 14:55 |
| john-davidge | thanks | 14:55 |
| neiljerram | Nova cores are finding it hard to reach consensus on this, and I wonder if some Neutron eyes might help. | 14:56 |
| armax | neiljerram: noted | 14:56 |
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| HenryG | Plugin/driver decomposition phase 2: https://review.openstack.org/187267 | 14:56 |
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| armax | hichihara: iirc the metaplugin is going to be remoted soon | 14:56 |
| armax | *removed | 14:56 |
| salv-orlando | neiljerram: I can trime and chime in with my opinions, but there's a chance I'll end up generating even more confusion | 14:56 |
| armax | hichihara: reach out to mestery, I am sure he knows the latest | 14:56 |
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| hichihara | armax: really? I want to remove it in Liberty not M | 14:57 |
| neiljerram | salv-orlando: I'm sure your contribution would be net positive! | 14:57 |
| armax | hichihara: ok, so be it | 14:57 |
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| salv-orlando | neiljerram: the point is that nova made a decision some time ago to make vif plugging completely generic and exclusively driver by parameters dictated from port bindings | 14:57 |
| hichihara | armax: Thanks! | 14:57 |
| salv-orlando | probably introducing a "script" kind of reverts that decision | 14:57 |
| numan | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/189741 request to please review | 14:57 |
| neiljerram | salv-orlando: It sounds like you know more of the history here than me... | 14:58 |
| neiljerram | salv-orlando: Would you like to discuss this a little further in openstack-neutron after the meeting? | 14:59 |
| armax | neiljerram, salv-orlando: it looks like this is the type of conversation that should be tracked on the review page, perhaps? | 14:59 |
| armax | or in-channel | 14:59 |
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| armax | okay, guys, we’re a minute away from the end of the meeting | 14:59 |
| armax | I’ll give you a minute back | 14:59 |
| salv-orlando | armax: you're right. Anyway I have another meeting now, I will be back available in openstack-neutron in 40 mins | 14:59 |
| armax | thanks for joining! | 15:00 |
| armax | #endmeeting | 15:00 |
| neiljerram | thx! | 15:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 15:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Jun 16 15:00:03 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 15:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/networking/2015/networking.2015-06-16-14.00.html | 15:00 |
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| salv-orlando | adieuuuuuu | 15:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/networking/2015/networking.2015-06-16-14.00.txt | 15:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/networking/2015/networking.2015-06-16-14.00.log.html | 15:00 |
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| yamamoto_ | bye | 15:00 |
| ajo | cheers :) | 15:00 |
| bauzas | #startmeeting nova_scheduler | 15:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Jun 16 15:00:15 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is bauzas. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 15:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 15:00 |
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| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: nova_scheduler)" | 15:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'nova_scheduler' | 15:00 |
| bauzas | hola folks | 15:00 |
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| lxsli | o/ | 15:00 |
| hichihara | bye | 15:00 |
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| edleafe | o/ | 15:00 |
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| bauzas | n0ano is unable to make the call, so I'm chairing for the best or the worst | 15:01 |
| bauzas | feel free to buy tomatoes before we start | 15:01 |
| * edleafe is in another meeting on the phone | 15:01 | |
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| edleafe | so sorry if I lag response time | 15:01 |
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| bauzas | edleafe: eh, wasn't my turn last week ? :) | 15:01 |
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| bauzas | okay, waiting a few more time for guests coming in, and then we can start | 15:02 |
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| edleafe | bauzas: :) | 15:02 |
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| bauzas | okay, guessing that 3 people is definitely good for having consensus, we can start | 15:03 |
| bauzas | (at least, it is easier than 4) | 15:03 |
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| bauzas | (and better than 2) | 15:03 |
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| bauzas | #topic Spec tracking | 15:04 |
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| *** openstack changes topic to "Spec tracking (Meeting topic: nova_scheduler)" | 15:04 | |
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| bauzas | so n0ano was wondering how to track our progress | 15:04 |
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| bauzas | from my perspective, we have 2 kind of things | 15:04 |
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| edleafe | didn't he create an etherpad or wiki page? | 15:04 |
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| bauzas | 1/ things that are priorities | 15:04 |
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| bauzas | 2/ things that aren't | 15:04 |
| bauzas | edleafe: yup, but he recently raised the question about that during the last nova meeting | 15:05 |
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| bauzas | edleafe: and I was -1 about that | 15:05 |
| bauzas | so, as I said, there are 2 possibilities | 15:05 |
| bauzas | either you work on a prioritized spec | 15:06 |
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| bauzas | (or you claim for it) | 15:06 |
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| edleafe | suggestion for tracking these things? | 15:06 |
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| bauzas | or, you don't | 15:06 |
| bauzas | so, given that, we already the Master Doom of the Etherpads for Nova | 15:06 |
| lxsli | An etherpad to track our Liberty commitments and process sounds useful; in addition to the liberty-nova-priorities list where we may put 3 items for review | 15:06 |
| bauzas | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/liberty-nova-priorities-tracking | 15:06 |
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| bauzas | MHO is that we can add our specs there, either it's a prio or not | 15:07 |
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| bauzas | L29 is for Scheduler priority specs | 15:07 |
| edleafe | just added my teeny spec | 15:07 |
| bauzas | so, I'm thinking we should just add non-prio specs in another Scheduler bullet at the bottom | 15:08 |
| bauzas | johnthetubaguy: are you around ? | 15:08 |
| bauzas | johnthetubaguy: we have some specs that are priorities or claiming for so we can add them to https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/liberty-nova-priorities-tracking | 15:08 |
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| lxsli | We can add some extra things which aren't ready to be reviewed quite yet | 15:08 |
| lxsli | I wouldn't like to clog it up with everything we're thinking of though | 15:09 |
| bauzas | johnthetubaguy: but some specs couldn't be priority, so my gut is that we should add a Scheduler subteam item at the bottom | 15:09 |
| edleafe | lxsli: as long as they are in a separate section | 15:09 |
| bauzas | (and explicitely say those are not prio) | 15:09 |
| edleafe | lxsli: we can move them around when they are ready for review | 15:09 |
| johnthetubaguy | I think having a single scheduler subteam area is easiest if possible | 15:09 |
| bauzas | lxsli: edleafe: +1, I want it very clear that the first section (L17) is only for those we consider mergeable | 15:10 |
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| johnthetubaguy | yeah, just have a separate ready vs needs review by sub team lists | 15:10 |
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| lxsli | johnthetubaguy: without a separate etherpad? | 15:10 |
| johnthetubaguy | you can have non priority stuff separate if you want | 15:10 |
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| bauzas | johnthetubaguy: okay, I just want to make it clear that not all the specs are priority | 15:10 |
| edleafe | lxsli: L17 is for the API | 15:10 |
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| edleafe | lxsli: you mean L35 | 15:10 |
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| johnthetubaguy | lxsli: yeah, please not more etherpads, people don't seem to look at the current one at the moment, so I think adding more will be counter productive | 15:10 |
| bauzas | edleafe: yup | 15:10 |
| johnthetubaguy | bauzas: the blueprint and spec deadline is super soon, specs that are not up now are very unlikely to make the deadline at this point | 15:11 |
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| bauzas | johnthetubaguy: my point | 15:11 |
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| bauzas | johnthetubaguy: I mean, during Liberty, we will have 2 kind of changes | 15:12 |
| johnthetubaguy | so yeah, I would focus on making sure you have the specs merged that you need, and focusing your view on those right now | 15:12 |
| bauzas | johnthetubaguy: (speaking of changes, here) | 15:12 |
| bauzas | johnthetubaguy: edleafe: lxsli: I'm just amending the etherpad now | 15:12 |
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| johnthetubaguy | cool, thanks for pushing on this folks | 15:13 |
| bauzas | the idea is to separate non-prio changes from the prio ones, to help both nova cores and sched subteam to get the proper attraction for prio changes, while we still want to keep focus on non-prio | 15:13 |
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| bauzas | okay, I'm taking an action to refine a little bit the sections | 15:14 |
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| bauzas | #action bauzas to amend the etherpad to make clear what is a priority change vs. what is not a priority change | 15:14 |
| bauzas | let's move on then | 15:14 |
| bauzas | johnthetubaguy: thanks for your insights on that | 15:14 |
| bauzas | #topic Liberty tracking | 15:15 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Liberty tracking (Meeting topic: nova_scheduler)" | 15:15 | |
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| bauzas | so, before going further, do we agree on using https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/liberty-nova-priorities-tracking for tracking ? | 15:15 |
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| bauzas | #startvote do we agree on using https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/liberty-nova-priorities-tracking for tracking? yes or no | 15:16 |
| openstack | Begin voting on: do we agree on using https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/liberty-nova-priorities-tracking for tracking? Valid vote options are yes, or, no. | 15:16 |
| openstack | Vote using '#vote OPTION'. Only your last vote counts. | 15:16 |
| lxsli | sounds like that's what john prefers | 15:16 |
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| lxsli | #vote yes | 15:16 |
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| bauzas | edleafe: ? | 15:16 |
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| bauzas | #vote yes | 15:16 |
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| bauzas | I would love if edleafe could give his view on that, even if I think we got his idea :) | 15:17 |
| lxsli | ed's on the phone | 15:17 |
| bauzas | right, that's why I make edleafe's IRC client blinking like Xmas | 15:18 |
| bauzas | :) | 15:18 |
| lxsli | heh | 15:18 |
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| bauzas | ok, let's close the vote | 15:18 |
| edleafe | #vote yes | 15:18 |
| bauzas | #endvote | 15:18 |
| openstack | Voted on "do we agree on using https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/liberty-nova-priorities-tracking for tracking?" Results are | 15:18 |
| openstack | yes (3): bauzas, edleafe, lxsli | 15:18 |
| bauzas | woooh | 15:18 |
| edleafe | whew, just made it! | 15:18 |
| bauzas | edleafe: heh :) | 15:18 |
| bauzas | ok, so, given that | 15:18 |
| bauzas | #action all to update https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/liberty-nova-priorities-tracking to mention their changes if necessary for tracking | 15:19 |
| bauzas | #info changes that are not given in the etherpad list are not considered for tracking yet | 15:19 |
| bauzas | do you agree, guys ? | 15:19 |
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| edleafe | yep | 15:20 |
| bauzas | I mean, I have the RequestSpec object patch series that is up for review, but I don't consider it yet good for being tracked | 15:20 |
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| lxsli | What's the significance of being tracked? | 15:20 |
| bauzas | lxsli: being discussed periodically by the team to make sure we make our deadlines ? :) | 15:21 |
| lxsli | so there's some kind of promise of delivery? | 15:21 |
| bauzas | yup | 15:21 |
| lxsli | OK, thanks | 15:21 |
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| bauzas | that doesn't mean that we can't discuss on some spec implementations now, but I really want to use the etherpad for things that are needing reviews | 15:21 |
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| bauzas | but let's loop back with n0ano next week | 15:22 |
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| edleafe | One thing I wanted to mention | 15:23 |
| bauzas | given that, does anyone want to discuss about a specific spec or implementation they want to share ? | 15:24 |
| bauzas | edleafe: fire it | 15:24 |
| edleafe | If you review one of these specs and give a -1, please be sure to follow up | 15:24 |
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| bauzas | edleafe: wise words | 15:24 |
| edleafe | n0ano gave me a -1 with some questions | 15:24 |
| edleafe | and then left it all last week | 15:24 |
| edleafe | as a result, no one reviewed the spec on Friday | 15:24 |
| sudipto | bauzas, I guess it doesn't apply to specs that necessarily don't fall under the priority list? Is there a way out for specs that are deemed essential for someone beyond the ones listed? | 15:24 |
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| bauzas | edleafe: don't hesitate to bug people if you don't get feedback rapidely | 15:24 |
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| lxsli | bauzas: +1 | 15:25 |
| bauzas | edleafe: on my own, I seriously lag from reviews atm | 15:25 |
| edleafe | bauzas: I lag reviews, but I always star those I give a -1 to so I can follow up | 15:25 |
| bauzas | sudipto: we just agreed on tracking those in the etherpad too, so you could get attention from the sched team | 15:25 |
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| sudipto | bauzas, ok sure... | 15:25 |
| bauzas | sudipto: https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/liberty-nova-priorities-tracking L43 | 15:26 |
| sudipto | bauzas, thx! | 15:26 |
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| bauzas | edleafe: fair point, but you can't assume everybody does that :) | 15:26 |
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| bauzas | we are a small team, it's reasonable to bug people if so | 15:26 |
| edleafe | bauzas: hence my reminder :) | 15:26 |
| bauzas | edleafe: cool | 15:27 |
| bauzas | any spec/bp/change that we want to discuss now ? | 15:27 |
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| lxsli | I'm happy with Jay's resource objects spec, it'd be great to get some more reviews on that now | 15:27 |
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| bauzas | I could just tell that I'm suffering severe PITA with the ReqSpec object BP, but I guess you see my complaints all the day on IRC | 15:28 |
| bauzas | lxsli: in my queue | 15:28 |
| bauzas | lxsli: I saw you squashed the 2 specs, great and ty | 15:28 |
| lxsli | bauzas: yep always the idea, just needed to work out the kinks with jay first | 15:28 |
| bauzas | cool | 15:28 |
| bauzas | moving on then ? | 15:29 |
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| bauzas | edleafe: I saw you were proposing a log information for NoValidHost ? | 15:29 |
| bauzas | that's on my queue too | 15:29 |
| edleafe | yep | 15:29 |
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| bauzas | edleafe: you could put it as non-prio stuff (or prio, don't remember your claim) | 15:29 |
| edleafe | I had originally tied it to the ReqSpec, but since that isn't going to be used for filtering in Liberty, I simplified it | 15:30 |
| edleafe | It was a priority from the summit, IIRC | 15:30 |
| bauzas | edleafe: I missed that point, I'll take some time to decently -1 it | 15:30 |
| bauzas | :p | 15:30 |
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| bauzas | (just kidding) | 15:30 |
| edleafe | bauzas: I expect nothing less! | 15:30 |
| bauzas | ok, moving on | 15:31 |
| bauzas | #topic New meeting time | 15:31 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "New meeting time (Meeting topic: nova_scheduler)" | 15:31 | |
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| bauzas | so I was horribly lagging last week, was there any consensus reached ? | 15:31 |
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| edleafe | no, since there was no single time where everyone was available | 15:32 |
| bauzas | or are we just doomed because of a stupid French wanting to take some time with his daughters ? | 15:32 |
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| bauzas | edleafe: so, what was the outcome ? | 15:32 |
| edleafe | we are doomed because stupid jaypipes wants to go to his meetings :) | 15:32 |
| lxsli | They should move America east a bit | 15:32 |
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| edleafe | n0ano just punted | 15:33 |
| bauzas | things would be far easier if anyone could just use the Paris TZ | 15:33 |
| * bauzas whispers | 15:33 | |
| * edleafe wonders if 'punted' translates well... | 15:33 | |
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| bauzas | ok, so we're stuck ? | 15:33 |
| bauzas | should we think about alternating ? | 15:34 |
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| bauzas | even weeks using that timeslot, and odd weeks using a new timeslot ? | 15:34 |
| edleafe | bauzas: there is another option | 15:34 |
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| bauzas | edleafe: I'm hanging at your lips | 15:34 |
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| edleafe | (looking it up...) | 15:35 |
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| bauzas | (don't know if that translates well too...) | 15:35 |
| edleafe | 1600 UTC was ok for everyone except johnthetubaguy | 15:35 |
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| lxsli | he's not that important | 15:35 |
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| johnthetubaguy | +1 | 15:35 |
| bauzas | thinking about a rebellion ? | 15:35 |
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| edleafe | lxsli: heh, I'm sure he'll be glad to hear that :) | 15:35 |
| lxsli | "coup, coup" tweeted the pigeons | 15:35 |
| johnthetubaguy | I have a regular meeting at that time, but its moving soon anyways | 15:36 |
| bauzas | don't forget we cut our King's head | 15:36 |
| johnthetubaguy | but thats fine | 15:36 |
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| edleafe | but those were the only two times that jaypipes was available | 15:36 |
| johnthetubaguy | its not on IRC so I can be vaguely around for both | 15:36 |
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| johnthetubaguy | I would go for that one | 15:36 |
| * johnthetubaguy wonders where in the agenda to raise his crazy spec and docs patches | 15:36 | |
| edleafe | the other option is to move it to monday or thursday | 15:36 |
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| bauzas | johnthetubaguy: it was during the previous topic, but let's discuss that during open time | 15:37 |
| johnthetubaguy | bauzas: yeah, I figured I missed that, cool | 15:37 |
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| edleafe | bauzas: how about I ping jaypipes for his availability, and then create a new doodle based on that? | 15:37 |
| bauzas | we only have that topic and then we open the discussion | 15:37 |
| bauzas | edleafe: huge +1 | 15:37 |
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| johnthetubaguy | seems like we can just go for 1600UTC though? | 15:37 |
| edleafe | #action edleafe to ping jaypipes for availability and start new doodle for meeting time | 15:38 |
| johnthetubaguy | ignore my no vote on that, I can lurk like I normally do just fine at that time, if it helps | 15:38 |
| edleafe | johnthetubaguy: yes, but jay was a maybe for that | 15:38 |
| johnthetubaguy | edleafe: ah, gotcha | 15:38 |
| bauzas | edleafe: not sure you logged the action | 15:38 |
| edleafe | johnthetubaguy: so you're not the only problem :) | 15:38 |
| bauzas | #chair edleafe | 15:38 |
| openstack | Current chairs: bauzas edleafe | 15:38 |
| lxsli | edleafe: action should be to find out the issue with 1600 first then | 15:39 |
| edleafe | bauzas: yeah, actions and links can be posted by anyone | 15:39 |
| bauzas | lxsli: agreed | 15:39 |
| bauzas | #undo | 15:39 |
| openstack | Removing item from minutes: <ircmeeting.items.Action object at 0x9730650> | 15:39 |
| lxsli | ooh undo, fancy | 15:39 |
| edleafe | #action edleafe to ping jaypipes for his issue with Tuesday 1600 UTC | 15:39 |
| bauzas | edleafe: before we agree on that, could we just consider using the 1600UTC slot and check with jaypiprsd | 15:39 |
| bauzas | ? | 15:39 |
| bauzas | yeah, that one | 15:40 |
| bauzas | I missed the new doodle thing when I shouted "hell yea" | 15:40 |
| edleafe | bauzas: is there a meeting room available? | 15:40 |
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| bauzas | edleafe: we can sort that out quickly, or complain about that to ttx if no | 15:40 |
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| bauzas | edleafe: I'm not that worried | 15:40 |
| edleafe | I remember the 1700 was open | 15:41 |
| edleafe | not sure about 1600 | 15:41 |
| bauzas | edleafe: the #openstack-meeting room was sexy, but I can leave with that | 15:41 |
| lxsli | shall we move on? | 15:41 |
| bauzas | lxsli: +1, that can be figured out later | 15:41 |
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| bauzas | #topic open discussion | 15:41 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: nova_scheduler)" | 15:41 | |
| bauzas | johnthetubaguy: had a status to share ? | 15:41 |
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| johnthetubaguy | #link https://review.openstack.org/192260 | 15:41 |
| johnthetubaguy | so I had an action to write up a summary of the scheduler evolution plans | 15:41 |
| johnthetubaguy | thats a first draft of that effort | 15:42 |
| lxsli | oh cracking, I was thinking of doing that but not looking forward to it | 15:42 |
| johnthetubaguy | help extremely welcome, like please take over that patch and make it better | 15:42 |
| johnthetubaguy | any one other thing tooo | 15:42 |
| bauzas | johnthetubaguy: okay, are you fine with me providing some updates ? | 15:42 |
| johnthetubaguy | bauzas: please do, that would be awesome | 15:42 |
| bauzas | johnthetubaguy: sure, that's on my todo list | 15:42 |
| bauzas | starring it even :) | 15:42 |
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| johnthetubaguy | so I wrote up some stuff around the parallel scheduling effort too | 15:43 |
| bauzas | johnthetubaguy: ooooooh | 15:43 |
| johnthetubaguy | based on the summit session, and stuff I was mumbling about during that session | 15:43 |
| johnthetubaguy | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/191914/ | 15:43 |
| johnthetubaguy | its a backlog spec | 15:43 |
| bauzas | johnthetubaguy: saw ndipanov's proposal btw ? | 15:43 |
| johnthetubaguy | bauzas: yeah, this is mostly unrelated it turns out | 15:43 |
| johnthetubaguy | so its a backlog spec | 15:43 |
| johnthetubaguy | so its collecting a problem definition | 15:43 |
| johnthetubaguy | and its talking about alternatives | 15:44 |
| bauzas | johnthetubaguy: cool, I should probably say the same that for the last spec | 15:44 |
| johnthetubaguy | I am not trying to pick a winner, or assign the work | 15:44 |
| bauzas | s/spec/devref | 15:44 |
| johnthetubaguy | just doument the ideas | 15:44 |
| bauzas | sure, that's a backlog spec | 15:44 |
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| johnthetubaguy | somehow, its over 400 lines long | 15:44 |
| johnthetubaguy | oops | 15:44 |
| bauzas | okay, that's pretty fancy | 15:44 |
| edleafe | johnthetubaguy: curious - backlog specs don't go in nova-specs? | 15:44 |
| bauzas | edleafe: they do, but on a separate path | 15:45 |
| johnthetubaguy | edleafe: http://specs.openstack.org/openstack/nova-specs/specs/backlog/index.html | 15:45 |
| bauzas | ok, that's cool, we could even put those both changes in the etherpad for reviews | 15:45 |
| edleafe | johnthetubaguy: just confused, since your spec is in nova, not nova-specs | 15:45 |
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| bauzas | edleafe: hell no | 15:46 |
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| edleafe | johnthetubaguy: haven't created a backlog spec myself | 15:46 |
| johnthetubaguy | edleafe: one is a nova doc on architectural evolution | 15:46 |
| bauzas | edleafe: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/191914/ is in nova-specs | 15:46 |
| johnthetubaguy | edleafe: the other is in the nova-specs backlog specs | 15:46 |
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| bauzas | edleafe: https://review.openstack.org/192260 is a devref doc | 15:46 |
| edleafe | johnthetubaguy: ah, I see | 15:46 |
| bauzas | huh, jinxed | 15:46 |
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| johnthetubaguy | edleafe: the nova doc stuff is designed to span multiple nova-specs, giving a high level overview, then pointers once thats possible | 15:46 |
| edleafe | johnthetubaguy: I saw the .rst and assumed it was a spec | 15:47 |
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| johnthetubaguy | edleafe: this is all very shiny and new process right now | 15:47 |
| johnthetubaguy | edleafe: ah, easy done! | 15:47 |
| edleafe | johnthetubaguy: too shiny - it blinded me! :) | 15:47 |
| bauzas | :) | 15:47 |
| johnthetubaguy | I keep -2ing specs because they don't have a spec merged, so I can't throw stones | 15:47 |
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| bauzas | johnthetubaguy: thanks a lot for your proposals, we'll follow up on those | 15:48 |
| johnthetubaguy | so there are other actions folks have from the summit | 15:48 |
| johnthetubaguy | it would be good to update the etherpad when they are done | 15:48 |
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| johnthetubaguy | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/YVR-nova-liberty-summit-action-items | 15:48 |
| bauzas | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/YVR-nova-liberty-summit-action-items | 15:48 |
| bauzas | #undo | 15:48 |
| openstack | Removing item from minutes: <ircmeeting.items.Link object at 0x9503d90> | 15:48 |
| bauzas | johnthetubaguy: yeah we're just starting to collect feedback | 15:49 |
| bauzas | johnthetubaguy: given all the things we are, I'm at least wanting to have some design discussions for things that are in the list but not yet with a clear plan | 15:49 |
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| bauzas | johnthetubaguy: so we could propose and implement those for Muppet cycle | 15:50 |
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| johnthetubaguy | bauzas: I really want backlog specs for that stuff | 15:50 |
| bauzas | johnthetubaguy: +1 | 15:50 |
| johnthetubaguy | bauzas: so folks outside the usual groups can be more invovled | 15:51 |
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| bauzas | johnthetubaguy: that's what I say "design discussions", translate it to 'draw a draft' | 15:51 |
| bauzas | johnthetubaguy: which is even one step further than a backlog spec | 15:51 |
| lxsli | bauzas: perhaps 'requirement discussions' | 15:52 |
| bauzas | johnthetubaguy: +1 on welcoming new contributors, hence the idea to open up the reviews to things that people want to share with us | 15:52 |
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| johnthetubaguy | bauzas: just agreeing the problem in a backlog spec I think is good step forward | 15:52 |
| bauzas | I got your idea :) | 15:52 |
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| bauzas | collect feedback, iterate over that | 15:53 |
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| edleafe | so if someone has an outlandish new approach, a backlog spec would be the place to propose it? | 15:53 |
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| bauzas | edleafe: a backlog spec is for stating a problem | 15:53 |
| edleafe | bauzas: not for proposing solutions? | 15:54 |
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| bauzas | edleafe: technically, there is no section for that IIRC | 15:54 |
| bauzas | edleafe: but that doesn't mean we're avoiding to think about the solution | 15:54 |
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| edleafe | hmmm... I thought that if there was a proposed solution that couldn't be implemented in the current cycle, it went into the backlog | 15:55 |
| johnthetubaguy | so you can do both | 15:55 |
| lxsli | aiui backlog specs you don't plan to implement yourself | 15:55 |
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| johnthetubaguy | so I am about to update the doc page on this | 15:55 |
| lxsli | so you can propose a solution but it might not get implemented that way | 15:55 |
| johnthetubaguy | but basically, if you miss out any section of the spec | 15:55 |
| johnthetubaguy | its on the backlog | 15:55 |
| edleafe | lxsli: sure. Propose a solution, and let others have at it | 15:55 |
| johnthetubaguy | that include assignee or implementation | 15:55 |
| bauzas | maybe this discussion is wider than just for our subteam ? :) | 15:55 |
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| edleafe | bauzas: yeah - 3 minutes left | 15:56 |
| johnthetubaguy | bauzas: sure, I thought it was already "agreed" though, as defined here: http://specs.openstack.org/openstack/nova-specs/specs/backlog/index.html | 15:56 |
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| bauzas | johnthetubaguy: let's discuss that back on #openstack-nova, I guess some people could voice there | 15:56 |
| johnthetubaguy | sounds good | 15:56 |
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| bauzas | (and you would get better exposure for your thoughts) | 15:57 |
| bauzas | ok, any other topic for the 2 mins left ? | 15:57 |
| lxsli | Anything else then/ | 15:57 |
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| bauzas | crickets ? | 15:57 |
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| bauzas | fair, let's call the wrap | 15:58 |
| bauzas | #endmeeting | 15:58 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 15:58 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Jun 16 15:58:26 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 15:58 |
| lxsli | thanks for leading bauzas | 15:58 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova_scheduler/2015/nova_scheduler.2015-06-16-15.00.html | 15:58 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova_scheduler/2015/nova_scheduler.2015-06-16-15.00.txt | 15:58 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova_scheduler/2015/nova_scheduler.2015-06-16-15.00.log.html | 15:58 |
| bauzas | np | 15:58 |
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| edleafe | yeah, thanks, bauzas | 15:59 |
| bauzas | (hum, sounds the right phrasing is "let's call it a wrap) | 15:59 |
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| edleafe | bauzas: yes, but yours was close enough :) | 16:00 |
| primeministerp | #startmeeting hyper-v | 16:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Jun 16 16:00:45 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is primeministerp. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 16:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 16:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: hyper-v)" | 16:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'hyper_v' | 16:00 |
| primeministerp | hey guys | 16:01 |
| alexpilotti | o/ | 16:01 |
| primeministerp | #topic blueprints | 16:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "blueprints (Meeting topic: hyper-v)" | 16:01 | |
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| primeministerp | alexpilotti: care to share an update on the status of our liberty blueprints | 16:01 |
| alexpilotti | here comes the list: | 16:02 |
| alexpilotti | https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/+spec/hyper-v-rescue | 16:02 |
| alexpilotti | https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/+spec/hyper-v-imagecache-cleanup | 16:02 |
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| alexpilotti | https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/+spec/hyper-v-ovs-vif | 16:02 |
| alexpilotti | https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/+spec/hyper-v-remotefx | 16:02 |
| alexpilotti | https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/+spec/hyper-v-vnic-hot-plug | 16:03 |
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| alexpilotti | https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/+spec/hyperv-fibre-channel | 16:03 |
| alexpilotti | https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/+spec/hyperv-serial-ports | 16:03 |
| alexpilotti | https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/+spec/hyperv-storage-qos | 16:03 |
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| alexpilotti | more under review: | 16:04 |
| alexpilotti | https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/+spec/hyper-v-cluster | 16:04 |
| alexpilotti | https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/+spec/hyper-v-uefi-secureboot | 16:05 |
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| alexpilotti | more being drafted: | 16:06 |
| alexpilotti | https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/+spec/hyperv-assisted-volume-snapshot | 16:06 |
| primeministerp | alexpilotti: re: fibre-channel we just sent the address for shipment of the device, hopefully i'll hear more to day | 16:06 |
| alexpilotti | Manilla: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/manila/+spec/windows-smb-support | 16:06 |
| alexpilotti | Oslo: Workers support on Windows | 16:07 |
| alexpilotti | https://blueprints.launchpad.net/cinder/+spec/image-volume-cache | 16:07 |
| alexpilotti | More Nova: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/+spec/improve-block-device-handling | 16:07 |
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| alexpilotti | Tempest: Add boot from volume actions tests | 16:09 |
| alexpilotti | Nova Threshold features to be spec’d: | 16:10 |
| alexpilotti | Shielded VMs | 16:10 |
| alexpilotti | Windows Containers | 16:10 |
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| alexpilotti | Cinder Tenant based QoS | 16:10 |
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| primeministerp | quite a long list | 16:11 |
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| alexpilotti | more updates also on Neutron: | 16:12 |
| alexpilotti | https://github.com/stackforge/networking-hyperv | 16:12 |
| primeministerp | thx | 16:12 |
| primeministerp | sorry getting pinged from other angles | 16:13 |
| primeministerp | don't think anyone else is on today | 16:13 |
| primeministerp | let's end here for now | 16:13 |
| alexpilotti | ok! | 16:13 |
| primeministerp | #endmeeting | 16:13 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 16:13 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Jun 16 16:13:33 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 16:13 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/hyper_v/2015/hyper_v.2015-06-16-16.00.html | 16:13 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/hyper_v/2015/hyper_v.2015-06-16-16.00.txt | 16:13 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/hyper_v/2015/hyper_v.2015-06-16-16.00.log.html | 16:13 |
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| * ayoung sneaks in | 17:56 | |
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| breton | hellou | 17:58 |
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| stevemar | courtesy pings for ajayaa, amakarov, ayoung, bknudson, breton, browne, davechen, david8hu, dolphm, dstanek, ericksonsantos, geoffarnold, gyee, henrynash, hogepodge, htruta, jamielennox, joesavak, lbragstad, lhcheng, marekd, morganfainberg, nkinder, raildo, rharwood, rodrigods, roxanaghe, samueldmq, stevemar, topol, wanghong | 17:59 |
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| bknudson | hi | 17:59 |
| lbragstad | stevemar: o/ | 17:59 |
| ericksonsantos | hi \o | 17:59 |
| browne | hi | 17:59 |
| amakarov | o/ | 17:59 |
| dstanek | o/ | 17:59 |
| david8hu | \o | 17:59 |
| gyee | \o | 18:00 |
| david8hu | 0/ | 18:00 |
| samueldmq | o/ olá ! | 18:00 |
| rodrigods | o/ | 18:00 |
| rharwood | o/ | 18:00 |
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| stevemar | ola! | 18:00 |
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| ayoung | Hello | 18:00 |
| stevemar | keystoners assemble! | 18:00 |
| breton | a lot of topics today | 18:00 |
| gyee | what's cooking | 18:00 |
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| marekd | o/ | 18:00 |
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| lhcheng | o/ | 18:00 |
| stevemar | long list today, lets start early | 18:01 |
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| raildo | :) | 18:01 |
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| breton | ++ | 18:01 |
| stevemar | morganfainberg, and dolphm seem to be afk, so i'll jump in | 18:01 |
| htruta_ | o/ | 18:01 |
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| stevemar | #startmeeting keystone | 18:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Jun 16 18:01:17 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is stevemar. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 18:01 |
| marekd | jamie won't be here... | 18:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 18:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'keystone' | 18:01 |
| stevemar | marekd, yeah, jamie is on the other side of OZ today | 18:01 |
| stevemar | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/KeystoneMeeting | 18:01 |
| gyee | I need Jamie on one of the topics | 18:01 |
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| stevemar | #topic Release numbering | 18:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Release numbering (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:02 | |
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| stevemar | quick one, i wanted to give everyone a heads up on the numbering change that will occur (likely) | 18:02 |
| marekd | stevemar: numbering of what: ksc, kmw, ksa, keystone? | 18:02 |
| stevemar | you can read about it here: http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2015-June/067082.html | 18:02 |
| stevemar | keystone will be released as 8.0.0 in liberty, instead of 2015.2 | 18:02 |
| stevemar | M-release will be 9.0.0 | 18:02 |
| bknudson | just like windows 8 :( | 18:03 |
| dstanek | marekd: all the things | 18:03 |
| gyee | 8 is a luck number for me | 18:03 |
| raildo | bknudson, lol | 18:03 |
| stevemar | the thinking is, it's been the 8th integrated release | 18:03 |
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| stevemar | nova is at 12.0.0 | 18:03 |
| bknudson | looks like a snowman | 18:03 |
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| stevemar | bknudson never fails to make me laugh | 18:03 |
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| stevemar | any questions about it? | 18:03 |
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| ayoung | That is going to break so many things | 18:04 |
| breton | wwill the third number ever change? | 18:04 |
| stevemar | aside from what the numbers look like, snowmen or otherwise | 18:04 |
| ayoung | packaging is supposed to be monotonically increasing. OTOH, I think it will aslign with RDO | 18:04 |
| breton | I mean, shall we have 8.0.1? | 18:04 |
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| stevemar | breton, the second and third will be reserved for if we need to release a stable version of keystone | 18:04 |
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| henrynash_ | (sorry to be late) | 18:04 |
| stevemar | like we do now | 18:04 |
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| breton | cool, thanks | 18:05 |
| stevemar | instead of 2015.1.1 (the next stable release of kilo), it would be 8.0.1 (stable release for liberty) | 18:05 |
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| stevemar | or 8.1.0 depending on how much changes | 18:05 |
| stevemar | we're also going to have 8.0.0b1 for milestone 1 | 18:05 |
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| bknudson | is it actually following semver? | 18:05 |
| stevemar | ayoung, sorry if it breaks things, this one is out of my hands :( | 18:06 |
| stevemar | bknudson, i believe that's the intent | 18:06 |
| bknudson | or it's just a number? | 18:06 |
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| gyee | stevemar, any objections from the packagers? | 18:06 |
| gyee | besides ayoung | 18:06 |
| ayoung | stevemar, I'll be fine. RDO and RH-OSP are at 7 right now anyway | 18:06 |
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| ayoung | I'm just laughing to myself | 18:06 |
| bknudson | the REST API is versioned separately so I guess this doesn't help us much | 18:06 |
| stevemar | gyee, this was made at the TC level, i wasn't really involved, just relaying the decision | 18:06 |
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| stevemar | henrynash, 2 laps for being late | 18:07 |
| stevemar | next? | 18:07 |
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| henrynash | stevemar: ok, agreed, two laps of the table underway | 18:07 |
| stevemar | #topic Outcome of DB2 CI | 18:07 |
| gyee | if the packages are not concerned about the version change, I guess we're fine | 18:07 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Outcome of DB2 CI (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:07 | |
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| stevemar | bknudson, did you want to take this one? | 18:07 |
| bknudson | oh, sure... | 18:07 |
| bknudson | I think the outcome is that DB2 CI isn't going to report | 18:08 |
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| * stevemar throws bknudon under the bus | 18:08 | |
| bknudson | until we can show that it's more stable | 18:08 |
| stevemar | currently it's at a 88% success rate right? | 18:08 |
| bknudson | or we can get people in US time to be available to disable it when it's not working | 18:08 |
| bknudson | that's the only number I've seen | 18:08 |
| stevemar | and it only covers tempest tests | 18:09 |
| bknudson | I don't think we have actual numbers. | 18:09 |
| stevemar | probably not :P | 18:09 |
| dstanek | where did the 88% number come from? | 18:09 |
| bknudson | dstanek: it was from other projects, not keystone | 18:09 |
| bknudson | DB2 CI is running on several other projects | 18:09 |
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| bknudson | so it might be accurate for keystone but I don't know. | 18:10 |
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| stevemar | bknudson, i guess we'll let the keystone team know if anything changes | 18:11 |
| stevemar | but the db2 team will monitor it internally for now | 18:11 |
| bknudson | y, I'm sure they'll talk to me again here when they're ready | 18:11 |
| stevemar | skipping over the jamie topic | 18:11 |
| stevemar | #topic It's time to fix Bug 1291157 | 18:12 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "It's time to fix Bug 1291157 (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:12 | |
| openstack | bug 1291157 in python-keystoneclient "idp deletion should trigger token revocation" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1291157 - Assigned to Navid Pustchi (npustchi) | 18:12 |
| stevemar | marekd, the floor is yours | 18:12 |
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| marekd | hi, i wanted to get back to the bug and refreshed some knoweldge. I know some of you were tackling it. | 18:12 |
| bknudson | stevemar: you reported that a long time ago | 18:12 |
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| stevemar | bknudson, i did, basically the description is pretty sufficient | 18:13 |
| marekd | I will have an intern this summer and thought i could make him work on that, as clearly this bug is not something that can be fixed in 1-2 hours. | 18:13 |
| stevemar | marekd, sounds like a good project for the intern | 18:13 |
| stevemar | under your expert guidance of course ;) | 18:14 |
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| marekd | stevemar: i think so, as he would need to learn about revocations in keystone either way. | 18:14 |
| marekd | stevemar: don't be sarcastic :P | 18:14 |
| gyee | revoke by IdP will be fun | 18:14 |
| marekd | stevemar: anyway, i think it's pretty straightforward how to tackle uuid tokens, yet it may need extending the db schema. | 18:14 |
| gyee | we don't index the tokens by IdP do we? | 18:14 |
| bknudson | is Navid the intern? | 18:15 |
| marekd | bknudson: no | 18:15 |
| stevemar | bknudson, navid was a utsc guy | 18:15 |
| stevemar | i'll unassign | 18:15 |
| marekd | stevemar: please. | 18:15 |
| marekd | stevemar: please do | 18:15 |
| stevemar | done | 18:15 |
| lbragstad | utsc? | 18:15 |
| marekd | utsa | 18:15 |
| lbragstad | ahh | 18:15 |
| stevemar | whoops | 18:15 |
| stevemar | utsc is a canadian uni :P my bad | 18:16 |
| marekd | i wanted to know what is the status of the revocation events... | 18:16 |
| ayoung | stevemar, your very bad | 18:16 |
| marekd | does it even work now? | 18:16 |
| marekd | ayoung: ^^ | 18:16 |
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| ayoung | nope | 18:16 |
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| bknudson | revocation events can be used in keystone server | 18:16 |
| ayoung | I mean, not by IdP | 18:16 |
| bknudson | you can disable revoke by list | 18:16 |
| ayoung | acutally, I don't know. I have not touched revocation events in a while | 18:16 |
| marekd | bknudson: ok, so we must take into consideration while working on this bug | 18:17 |
| amakarov | ayoung, and I still wait for them in ksc )) | 18:17 |
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| bknudson | y, you either need to support both since the best we could do now is deprecate one or the other | 18:17 |
| bknudson | or both | 18:17 |
| stevemar | marekd, it sucks that this depend on what kind of token is issued | 18:17 |
| ayoung | amakarov, go for it. | 18:17 |
| marekd | stevemar: that's the nature of different tokens....lots of things change :-) | 18:18 |
| ayoung | amakarov, I'm done tilting at that particular Windmill. | 18:18 |
| stevemar | marekd, even if it's a solution for just 1 token format, it's better than nothing | 18:18 |
| amakarov | ayoung, let's drop revocations | 18:18 |
| ayoung | OK | 18:18 |
| marekd | uh...? | 18:18 |
| marekd | stevemar: do you think it would need some specs, approved by June 21? | 18:19 |
| stevemar | marekd, preferably, but i understand if your intern hasn't started yet and you want to put them through the process | 18:19 |
| stevemar | this is also low impact, so i think it's OK to make it an exception | 18:20 |
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| marekd | stevemar: he will be here end of June, and i will need to make some intro to the Openstack world so it may few days :-) | 18:20 |
| bknudson | this is a bug, so no blueprint or spec for that | 18:20 |
| marekd | bknudson: ah, cool | 18:20 |
| marekd | bknudson: right. | 18:20 |
| stevemar | bknudson, if the outcome is a new API or feature then a spec might be needed | 18:20 |
| marekd | ayoung: is there any vision on how you'd like to see it inrevocation events? | 18:20 |
| ayoung | so...intern is going to work on revoke by IdP? | 18:21 |
| marekd | ayoung: that's one of the ideas i had. | 18:21 |
| bknudson | it does depend on the changes, since yo can't change the api for a bug, that would be a feature | 18:21 |
| ayoung | marekd, yeah, lots of visions. I think it was the Peyote | 18:21 |
| ayoung | marekd, too long for me to derail here | 18:21 |
| marekd | Peyote? | 18:21 |
| marekd | ayoung: i will catch up with ya one day after the meeting. | 18:21 |
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| marekd | lbragstad: for fernet.... | 18:22 |
| ayoung | marekd, so, revocation events in the client only make sense for PKI style tokens. I am done trying to push that through | 18:22 |
| marekd | lbragstad: any opinoins, or you already see any corner cases? | 18:22 |
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| anteaya | marekd: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peyote | 18:22 |
| ayoung | tokens in geenral should live for 5 minutes, no revation necessary | 18:22 |
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| ayoung | any thing longer than 5 minutes gets a trust, or a better delegation agreement than we have now anyway | 18:23 |
| lbragstad | marekd: the middleware will need the token revocation lists | 18:23 |
| ayoung | but...not for Liberty | 18:23 |
| marekd | do we all agree revocations shall die? | 18:23 |
| amakarov | ayoung, ideally tokens should have single use! | 18:23 |
| marekd | i don't want to make him work on something that will die | 18:23 |
| marekd | anteaya: thanks. | 18:23 |
| gyee | revocation shall die | 18:23 |
| ayoung | marekd, my view is that dynamic policy is key to any future sanity coming out of Keystone | 18:24 |
| henrynash | so in principle I agree…but we need to make sure we understand the path the point when revocations can really die | 18:24 |
| ayoung | with that, we can then work on unfied delegation, and many other things besides | 18:24 |
| marekd | lbragstad: ayoung how do we revoke fernet tokens? | 18:24 |
| lbragstad | marekd: otherwise we are always stuck to online validation | 18:24 |
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| ayoung | marekd, let me defer for now... | 18:25 |
| anteaya | marekd: np | 18:25 |
| henrynash | what impact on client apps who (almost entirely today) grab a token and assume that it will never experie (well not likely when the user is still logged in) | 18:25 |
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| marekd | lbragstad: how do we revoke fernet tokens? online validation ? | 18:25 |
| gyee | henrynash, the latest auth plugins handles token renewal pretty smoothly now | 18:25 |
| lbragstad | marekd: a revocation event is built and the renovation list is checked on validation of a token | 18:26 |
| henrynash | which is totally teh wrong thing to do….but us wishing it wasn’t so doesn’t make it any less true | 18:26 |
| marekd | lbragstad: ok, so basically it's the same mechanism as with PKI ? | 18:26 |
| lbragstad | marekd: maybe, I'm not all that familiar with pki | 18:26 |
| ayoung | marekd, fernet uses revocation events | 18:27 |
| ayoung | so, no revocation list | 18:27 |
| lbragstad | marekd: we have a bunch of those test cases added to test_v3_auth.py | 18:27 |
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| marekd | ayoung: ouch, so you want revocation *lists* or *events* to die? | 18:27 |
| breton | do we kill revocation events or lists? | 18:27 |
| marekd | or both? | 18:27 |
| henrynash | we should, imho: get a godo solution of short lived tokens (provided in parallel with the current ones), provide loads of wroking examples of client code that shows how to work with such things (how to “refresh”) | 18:27 |
| marekd | breton: ++ :-) | 18:28 |
| marekd | breton: same question | 18:28 |
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| ayoung | marekd, I *want* both to die. but I am not the decider. I never wanted either, even though I wrote both | 18:28 |
| gyee | henrynash, ++ | 18:28 |
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| ayoung | I just have no desire to continue working on either, so I'll defer. But Revoke by IdP would have been easy if we mapped 1 IdP to one domain | 18:29 |
| marekd | ayoung: ok, so it looks like i will make my guy focus on uuid for now, this should be good for a warmup at least. | 18:29 |
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| gyee | marekd, what you do have for him to do for encore? :) | 18:29 |
| gyee | if revoke by IdP is just a warmup | 18:30 |
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| marekd | gyee: so you claim it's hard or too easy? :-) | 18:30 |
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| gyee | its hard | 18:30 |
| lbragstad | so, what's going to replace revocation events/lists if it's removed? | 18:30 |
| ayoung | lbragstad, nothing! | 18:30 |
| ayoung | lbragstad, short term tokens | 18:30 |
| marekd | gyee: so, maybe i will not need any encore :-) | 18:30 |
| dstanek | lbragstad: it's just a bad model | 18:31 |
| marekd | he wil be there for 2 months and it's not a really full time job. | 18:31 |
| ayoung | the idea is that a token should last such a short amount of time, that by the time you revoke it, it has expired | 18:31 |
| lbragstad | token_expiration = 60 or something? | 18:31 |
| breton | lbragstad: that's the point -- the token will die young and their exposure will not give anything | 18:31 |
| ayoung | I say 5 minutes, as that seems to be the limit of click skew, but sure | 18:31 |
| marekd | ok, i have a clearer vision. thanks for now. | 18:31 |
| marekd | stevemar: ^^ | 18:31 |
| lbragstad | ok | 18:31 |
| lbragstad | makes sense | 18:31 |
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| lbragstad | thanks | 18:31 |
| ayoung | lbragstad, I'd like to see tokens themselves go away | 18:31 |
| marekd | ayoung: in favor of what? | 18:32 |
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| marekd | saml assertions? | 18:32 |
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| ayoung | instead, I authenticate as me using X509 or Kerberos or SAML, and the remote server looks at the deleagtion ID I provide to see if Ia ma ctually authorized | 18:32 |
| * marekd please, not saml! | 18:32 | |
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| breton | we didn't we use oauth instead of tokens? | 18:32 |
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| ayoung | marekd, SAML for those that want it, X509 or Kerberos for those of us that want it | 18:32 |
| ayoung | breton, same same | 18:32 |
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| gyee | brethon, oath uses *tokens* | 18:33 |
| stevemar | i think we're getting off topic ish | 18:33 |
| ayoung | oauth and keystone are pretty similar, as far as why...ask those who came before the project | 18:33 |
| gyee | access tokens, refresh tokens, etc | 18:33 |
| ayoung | yes we are | 18:33 |
| ayoung | I tried to defer | 18:33 |
| ayoung | everytime I think I'm out they pull.me.back.in! | 18:33 |
| gyee | stevemar, next topic | 18:33 |
| ayoung | next topic | 18:33 |
| stevemar | let's end it here and give raildo htruta and rodrigods some time | 18:33 |
| marekd | ++ | 18:33 |
| breton | ++ next topic | 18:33 |
| stevemar | #topic New way to get a project scoped token by name with Reseller | 18:33 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "New way to get a project scoped token by name with Reseller (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:33 | |
| htruta | cool | 18:33 |
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| raildo | :D | 18:34 |
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| raildo | hey guys, as we had discussed last week, we created a etherpad with the alternatives to get a project scoped token by name after reseller | 18:34 |
| rodrigods | so it's time to vote :) | 18:34 |
| raildo | https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/reseller-project-token | 18:34 |
| htruta | guess most of you guys have read the etherpad | 18:34 |
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| raildo | rodrigods, ++ | 18:34 |
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| raildo | we decided to take a vote to choose the best option and after that we will write the spec. | 18:34 |
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| stevemar | raildo, htruta rodrigods go over the options quickly? | 18:35 |
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| gyee | I vote for 5 | 18:35 |
| raildo | stevemar, can be | 18:35 |
| htruta | ok | 18:35 |
| htruta | (1) Specify the project hierarchy up to the domain as a string separeted by a configurable delimiter | 18:35 |
| stevemar | oh geez 6 options | 18:35 |
| raildo | stevemar, sorry about that :( | 18:36 |
| samueldmq | gyee, ++ I kind of agree, at least for now :) | 18:36 |
| dstanek | gyee: +1000 | 18:36 |
| htruta | (2) Provide empty project name when intended to get a project scoped token to is_domain project. | 18:36 |
| stevemar | everyone take a few minutes to read the options | 18:36 |
| htruta | guess I don't need to paste them all here, write? | 18:36 |
| henrynash | gyee: definitely disagree! | 18:36 |
| raildo | I don't like the 5 option too :P | 18:37 |
| gyee | if we allow intermix between project and domain, I see OSSA/Ns in the future | 18:37 |
| stevemar | ewww to 2 | 18:37 |
| dstanek | henrynash: the problem i have is that Project<is_domain=True> should be treated like a domain and not a project5 | 18:37 |
| gyee | we already have project/service admin bleedover | 18:37 |
| henrynash | no…becomes scope specifies we are looking for a project | 18:37 |
| lbragstad | stevemar: ++ | 18:37 |
| stevemar | i kinda like 3 | 18:37 |
| htruta | if we choose the 5, we are not having domains as a feature of project | 18:38 |
| breton | why do we even allow domain-scoped by name? | 18:38 |
| htruta | which is on of the main proposals of reseller | 18:38 |
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| henrynash | stevemar: did I hint i liked that one as ell too strongly? | 18:38 |
| bknudson | the eww factor only applies to the JSON representation. The client lib and CLI can make it look better | 18:38 |
| breton | lets use uuids | 18:38 |
| stevemar | henrynash, not at all | 18:38 |
| henrynash | breton: we support both project and domain tokens today by name | 18:38 |
| marekd | 3 looks more readible at hte 1st glance | 18:38 |
| raildo | breton, imo the best way is provide tokens by uuids, but since we provide tokens by names, we will have this issue after reseller | 18:39 |
| stevemar | i'm thinking 3 or 5 | 18:39 |
| breton | or make a new field, like slug. | 18:39 |
| rodrigods | i dislike 3 because it Cons | 18:39 |
| stevemar | whats the impact of 5? | 18:39 |
| henrynash | breton: just that today they refer to seperate entites…which now get merger with “ a domain is represented as a project with teh is_domain attrbute set” | 18:39 |
| htruta | stevemar: I think it will make if difficult to integrate with other services | 18:39 |
| gyee | we need to clearly distinguish betwen project admin, service admin, and domain admin | 18:39 |
| raildo | stevemar, as htruta said, we are not having domains as a feature of project | 18:39 |
| bknudson | I like option 1 where the hierarchy is a list instead of a string. | 18:40 |
| dstanek | imo 5 keeps the domain/project dynamic much closer to what it is today and will be less confusing overall | 18:40 |
| amakarov | #vote 5 | 18:40 |
| rodrigods | bknudson, bad for exporting vars | 18:40 |
| htruta | we wanted to be able to treat all of them as project to make it easier to other OS services | 18:40 |
| lhcheng_ | dstanek: ++ | 18:40 |
| stevemar | amakarov, haven't started the vote yet :P | 18:40 |
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| stevemar | we could use the vote to narrow down options at least | 18:41 |
| dstanek | if we don't do #5 i don't understand how a user know what is a domain or project and when to act is if it's either | 18:41 |
| stevemar | and work through the details in the spec | 18:41 |
| amakarov | stevemar, but you saw it :P | 18:41 |
| henrynash | yep, remember that one of the goals here is to allow cilents to not have to worry about domain tokens….eveything should (in the end) be project tokens | 18:41 |
| gyee | stevemar, or we can put +6 on a single choice :_ | 18:41 |
| htruta | henrynash: ++ | 18:41 |
| raildo | stevemar, and if we choose other option 1-4, we don't need, for example, provide domain scoped token to Horizon | 18:41 |
| rodrigods | henrynash, ++ | 18:41 |
| raildo | henrynash, ++ | 18:41 |
| henrynash | a domin is just a funny kind of project that allows you to also hang users/groups off | 18:42 |
| stevemar | everyone ready for a vote? | 18:42 |
| lhcheng_ | htruta: for other OS services what's the use case where they need to get domain scoped token? | 18:42 |
| dstanek | henrynash: then why don't we drop support for them in general? | 18:42 |
| htruta | lhcheng_: they won't. they'll keep using project scoped tokens | 18:42 |
| raildo | dstanek, it's simple, if the is_domain=True, is a project that behaviour as a domain | 18:42 |
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| henrynash | dstanek: I think we are headed taht way…we are basically frezzingthe domain API and ding evyerting via teh project APi now | 18:43 |
| gyee | security guys don't like ambiguity | 18:43 |
| dstanek | raildo: what does that mean tho? what is the behavior? | 18:43 |
| henrynash | dtsanek: e.g. you can create a “domain” with create_project if the attribute is_domain=True in the entity you apss in | 18:43 |
| raildo | as a domain works today... create user, groups... | 18:43 |
| dstanek | henrynash: i still don't get why we allow projects to have a parent that is not is_domain=True | 18:43 |
| rodrigods | gyee, we intend to drop the ambiguity in the future | 18:44 |
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| lhcheng_ | htruta: if other services won't use it, we're not making it easier for anyone. since no services is really going to use it. we might be just making it complicated. | 18:44 |
| henrynash | dstanek: you mean project hierachy below a “domain”? | 18:44 |
| dstanek | henrynash: yes | 18:44 |
| samueldmq | lhcheng_, how does horizon do to create users ? what token does it use ? | 18:44 |
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| henrynash | dstanek: that’s so complex environemtn can model there projects better (and do thinsg like quotas that role up a tree etc,) | 18:45 |
| lhcheng_ | samueldmq: project token, horizon still doesn't support domain scoped token. | 18:45 |
| htruta | lhcheng_: they do not use today and we are not making them use in the future. we're just ensuring that they cant handle the whole hierarchy, without even knowing what a domain is | 18:45 |
| htruta | they can** | 18:45 |
| dstanek | henrynash: it seems that the model would be much simpler to say a project's parent must alwasy be is_domain=True | 18:46 |
| lhcheng_ | samueldmq: still wip, because horizon have some issue consuming the keystone v3 policy files. | 18:46 |
| gyee | funny project versus project is ambiguity | 18:46 |
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| henrynash | dtsanek: which is basically the model we have before any of the projec hierachy stuff arrived….! | 18:46 |
| bknudson | lhcheng_: all policy files are v3. | 18:46 |
| dstanek | gyee: ++ exactly | 18:46 |
| rodrigods | should we vote? | 18:46 |
| dstanek | henrynash: not true...you couldn't nest domains right? | 18:47 |
| henrynash | bkundson: ++ ( I rue the date I named that sampel file the way I did!) | 18:47 |
| henrynash | dstanake: nope | 18:47 |
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| henrynash | dstanek: all domains are at the top, each has a flat layer of projects….that was the original (pre-hierarchy) sitaution | 18:47 |
| stevemar | vote time | 18:47 |
| htruta | dstanek, henrynash, actually, you can | 18:47 |
| lhcheng_ | bknudson: our default policy is not domain aware. | 18:47 |
| dstanek | henrynash: to me a easier model for this would be a filesystem - directories(domain) contain other directories and files(projects) | 18:48 |
| htruta | you'll be able to, in reseller | 18:48 |
| henrynash | hruta: NOW you can yes, but not befor we had hieracrchys | 18:48 |
| stevemar | #startvote option for getting a project scoped token? 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 | 18:48 |
| openstack | Begin voting on: option for getting a project scoped token? Valid vote options are 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6. | 18:48 |
| openstack | Vote using '#vote OPTION'. Only your last vote counts. | 18:48 |
| stevemar | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/reseller-project-token | 18:49 |
| bknudson | #vote 1 | 18:49 |
| gyee | #vote 5 | 18:49 |
| dstanek | #vote 5 | 18:49 |
| henrynash | dtsanek: (I did actually argue for that when hieracrhies came in.. that acyuallywhat we ewanted was domain hieracries not project hierachies) | 18:49 |
| amakarov | #vote 5 | 18:49 |
| lbragstad | #vote 5 | 18:49 |
| raildo | #vote 3 | 18:49 |
| htruta | #vote 3 | 18:49 |
| henrynash | #vote 3 | 18:49 |
| iurygregory | #vote 3 | 18:49 |
| stevemar | #vote 3 | 18:49 |
| marekd | #vote 3 | 18:49 |
| rodrigods | #vote 3 | 18:49 |
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| lhcheng_ | #vote 5 | 18:49 |
| dstanek | henrynash: ++ yep | 18:49 |
| david8hu | #vote 5 | 18:49 |
| stevemar | #showvote | 18:49 |
| openstack | 1 (1): bknudson | 18:49 |
| openstack | 3 (7): rodrigods, marekd, iurygregory, htruta, henrynash, raildo, stevemar | 18:49 |
| openstack | 5 (6): gyee, dstanek, lbragstad, david8hu, amakarov, lhcheng_ | 18:49 |
| haneef | #vote 5 | 18:49 |
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| stevemar | you had to tie things up haneef ! | 18:49 |
| henrynash | ouch! | 18:49 |
| stevemar | #showvote | 18:50 |
| openstack | 1 (1): bknudson | 18:50 |
| openstack | 3 (7): rodrigods, marekd, iurygregory, htruta, henrynash, raildo, stevemar | 18:50 |
| lhcheng_ | haneef for the tie | 18:50 |
| openstack | 5 (6): gyee, dstanek, lbragstad, david8hu, amakarov, lhcheng_ | 18:50 |
| gyee | k, no run-away ehre | 18:50 |
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| stevemar | haneef, can you vote again, without a leading space :) | 18:50 |
| haneef | #vote 5 | 18:50 |
| rodrigods | bknudson, change to 3? :) | 18:50 |
| stevemar | thx! | 18:50 |
| stevemar | #showvote | 18:50 |
| openstack | 1 (1): bknudson | 18:50 |
| openstack | 3 (7): rodrigods, marekd, iurygregory, htruta, henrynash, raildo, stevemar | 18:50 |
| raildo | haha | 18:50 |
| openstack | 5 (7): gyee, dstanek, haneef, lbragstad, david8hu, amakarov, lhcheng_ | 18:50 |
| dstanek | dumb question about #3.... are all domain names unique? | 18:50 |
| raildo | dstanek, yes | 18:50 |
| rodrigods | dstanek, yes | 18:50 |
| htruta | dstanek: yes, they are | 18:50 |
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| htruta | not only in 3, btw :P | 18:51 |
| dstanek | how do we enforce that? | 18:51 |
| stevemar | in the backends i believe | 18:51 |
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| henrynash | dtsanek, stevemar: yes | 18:51 |
| dstanek | bummer :-( | 18:51 |
| lbragstad | about 9 minutes remaining | 18:51 |
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| stevemar | so i'm ending the vote here, raildo rodrigods htruta take the 2 options going forward and present them in the spec | 18:52 |
| *** lhcheng_ is now known as lhcheng | 18:52 | |
| stevemar | #endvote | 18:52 |
| openstack | Voted on "option for getting a project scoped token?" Results are | 18:52 |
| openstack | 1 (1): bknudson | 18:52 |
| openstack | 3 (7): rodrigods, marekd, iurygregory, htruta, henrynash, raildo, stevemar | 18:52 |
| openstack | 5 (7): gyee, dstanek, haneef, lbragstad, david8hu, amakarov, lhcheng_ | 18:52 |
| stevemar | thanks guys | 18:52 |
| raildo | ok, thank you guys :) | 18:52 |
| henrynash | stevemar: ++ it’s too close to call just here | 18:52 |
| stevemar | really quickly going to gyee | 18:52 |
| stevemar | #topic Should Endpoint Constraint Enforcement be its own middleware, or not? | 18:52 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Should Endpoint Constraint Enforcement be its own middleware, or not? (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:52 | |
| rodrigods | thanks guys | 18:53 |
| marekd | ++ | 18:53 |
| gyee | stevemar, I need jamielennox on this one since he's the only one wants it to be a separate middleware | 18:53 |
| gyee | I guess I can play this out in ML? | 18:53 |
| stevemar | educate us us for 2 minutes? | 18:53 |
| gyee | you guys have any strong opinion on this one? | 18:53 |
| stevemar | theres also this: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/177661/ | 18:54 |
| gyee | basically for endpoint enforcement, it is currently part of auth_token middleware | 18:54 |
| *** _amrith_ is now known as amrith | 18:54 | |
| samueldmq | gyee, I kind of agree with him ... auth_token should only be doing what it is supposed to do (validte tokens) | 18:54 |
| ayoung | gyee current thought make it its own middleware | 18:54 |
| ayoung | and it shoudlbe for enforcing policy | 18:54 |
| samueldmq | gyee, anything different should go in a separate middleware | 18:54 |
| gyee | arguments for it were 1) it should be part of "token validation", and 2) it is less disruptive for CMS | 18:54 |
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| gyee | ayoung, right, I had it as separate middleware at the beginning | 18:55 |
| ayoung | but...morgan was the one that wanted it unified | 18:55 |
| ayoung | and we can;t make that call without him | 18:55 |
| gyee | you and morganfainberg convinced me to merge it with auth_token | 18:55 |
| ayoung | gyee, and you are OK with either approach, and really, so am I | 18:55 |
| gyee | I am happy to separate it out again | 18:55 |
| stevemar | gyee, prisoner to the whims of the ptl | 18:56 |
| gyee | stevemar, :) | 18:56 |
| ayoung | actually, who said split it besides Jamie? | 18:56 |
| ayoung | I'm a pushover here..I just want progress | 18:56 |
| gyee | ayoung, Jamie so far | 18:56 |
| bknudson | what's the argument against splitting it? | 18:56 |
| ayoung | put it to a vote, understanding that PTL would vote unified | 18:56 |
| dstanek | i don't see the value of splitting it out | 18:56 |
| gyee | bknudson, 1) it should be part of "token validation", and 2) it is less disruptive for CMS | 18:57 |
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| stevemar | bknudson, "endpoint/global policy enforcement is really part of "token validation"" | 18:57 |
| ayoung | review link? | 18:57 |
| stevemar | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/177661/ | 18:57 |
| gyee | yay! lets vote | 18:57 |
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| gyee | frankly, I'm going with my magic 8 ball on this one | 18:57 |
| ayoung | jamie's vote and morgan's will cancel out, I think | 18:57 |
| stevemar | we'll let morgan decide this one when he's back | 18:57 |
| ayoung | stevemar, put it up for vote, please? | 18:57 |
| ayoung | stevemar, let's have the vote for him anyway | 18:58 |
| gyee | oh com'on, we want democracy! | 18:58 |
| gyee | we want freedom! | 18:58 |
| gyee | vote damit! | 18:58 |
| marekd | "money for nothing, chick for free" | 18:58 |
| marekd | chicks | 18:58 |
| bknudson | this is why canada still has a queen | 18:58 |
| marekd | :D | 18:58 |
| stevemar | #startvote should endpoint enforcement be it's own middleware? yes, no | 18:58 |
| openstack | Begin voting on: should endpoint enforcement be it's own middleware? Valid vote options are yes, no. | 18:58 |
| openstack | Vote using '#vote OPTION'. Only your last vote counts. | 18:58 |
| stevemar | fastest vote ever | 18:58 |
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| ayoung | #vote no | 18:58 |
| gyee | #vote no | 18:58 |
| dstanek | #vote no | 18:59 |
| bknudson | #vote no | 18:59 |
| henrynash | #vote no | 18:59 |
| marekd | #vote no | 18:59 |
| lbragstad | #vote no | 18:59 |
| lhcheng | #vote no | 18:59 |
| stevemar | #vote no | 18:59 |
| samueldmq | #vote maybe ? | 18:59 |
| openstack | samueldmq: maybe ? is not a valid option. Valid options are yes, no. | 18:59 |
| bknudson | jamie will probably just put it in its own middleware later anyways | 18:59 |
| david8hu | #vote no | 18:59 |
| ayoung | samueldmq, just abstain | 18:59 |
| lbragstad | bknudson: ++ | 18:59 |
| stevemar | lol | 18:59 |
| morganfainberg | #vote really?we'rehavingthisvote?causeit'sillytobeseparatefromvalidation | 18:59 |
| openstack | morganfainberg: really?we'rehavingthisvote?causeit'sillytobeseparatefromvalidation is not a valid option. Valid options are yes, no. | 18:59 |
| stevemar | #endvote | 18:59 |
| openstack | Voted on "should endpoint enforcement be it's own middleware?" Results are | 18:59 |
| openstack | no (10): gyee, dstanek, ayoung, lhcheng, bknudson, marekd, lbragstad, david8hu, henrynash, stevemar | 18:59 |
| stevemar | we're at time | 18:59 |
| gyee | wow, its unanimous | 18:59 |
| lbragstad | thanks all! | 18:59 |
| stevemar | thanks all! | 18:59 |
| marekd | o\ | 19:00 |
| henrynash | oh boy | 19:00 |
| ayoung | we'll count it as 11 nos, 1 yes | 19:00 |
| ayoung | cuz morganfainberg should have voted, but hey | 19:00 |
| stevemar | sorry jamie :( | 19:00 |
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| stevemar | ayoung, its in the minutes :P | 19:00 |
| morganfainberg | ayoung: what you didn't see my vote? | 19:00 |
| morganfainberg | :P | 19:00 |
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| stevemar | #endmeeting | 19:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 19:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Jun 16 19:00:45 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 19:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2015/keystone.2015-06-16-18.01.html | 19:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2015/keystone.2015-06-16-18.01.txt | 19:00 |
| stevemar | oops, forgot to end | 19:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2015/keystone.2015-06-16-18.01.log.html | 19:00 |
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| david8hu | adios | 19:00 |
| *** Ng has joined #openstack-meeting | 19:01 | |
| * fungi smells a wumpus^H^H^H^H^H^Hinfra meeting | 19:01 | |
| *** lhcheng has left #openstack-meeting | 19:01 | |
| nibalizer | woo meeting | 19:01 |
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| taron | o/ | 19:01 |
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| crinkle | o/ | 19:01 |
| pabelanger | o/ | 19:02 |
| cody-somerville | \o | 19:02 |
| jeblair | or we could just go back to the other channel and talk about czech beer | 19:02 |
| AJaeger | Hi infra! | 19:02 |
| anteaya | that too | 19:02 |
| mrmartin | Pilsner? | 19:02 |
| AJaeger | jeblair: and German one, please ;) | 19:02 |
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| pleia2 | o/ | 19:02 |
| yolanda | o/ | 19:02 |
| jeblair | we could talk about which is better! ;) | 19:02 |
| jeblair | #startmeeting infra | 19:02 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Jun 16 19:02:51 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is jeblair. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 19:02 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 19:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:02 | |
| mrmartin | o/ | 19:02 |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'infra' | 19:02 |
| yolanda | o/ | 19:02 |
| jhesketh | Morning | 19:03 |
| jeblair | #link agenda https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/InfraTeamMeeting#Agenda_for_next_meeting | 19:03 |
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| cody-somerville | \o | 19:03 |
| ianw | o/ | 19:03 |
| jeblair | #link previous meeting http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2015/infra.2015-06-09-19.01.html | 19:03 |
| mmedvede | o/ | 19:03 |
| ociuhandu | o/ | 19:03 |
| krtaylor | o/ | 19:03 |
| asselin | o/ | 19:03 |
| u_glide1 | hello infra! | 19:03 |
| bswartz | hi | 19:03 |
| SpamapS | o/ | 19:03 |
| jeblair | #topic Specs approval | 19:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Specs approval (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:03 | |
| *** Sam-I-Am has left #openstack-meeting | 19:03 | |
| jeblair | we approved some specs last week: | 19:03 |
| jeblair | #topic Specs approval: Shade (mordred) | 19:03 |
| jeblair | #link shade spec http://specs.openstack.org/openstack-infra/infra-specs/specs/shade.html | 19:03 |
| jeblair | #info shade spec was approved | 19:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Specs approval: Shade (mordred) (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:03 | |
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| jeblair | with that we've documented the project direction for shade | 19:04 |
| *** amakarov is now known as amakarov_away | 19:04 | |
| jeblair | and i have added SpamapS and Shrews (who is not here) to shade-core | 19:04 |
| mordred | yay! | 19:04 |
| SpamapS | \o/ | 19:04 |
| pleia2 | great | 19:04 |
| nibalizer | yay | 19:05 |
| jeblair | #topic Specs approval: Puppet apply (mordred) | 19:05 |
| jeblair | #link puppet apply spec http://specs.openstack.org/openstack-infra/infra-specs/specs/ansible_puppet_apply.html | 19:05 |
| jeblair | #info puppet apply spec was approved | 19:05 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Specs approval: Puppet apply (mordred) (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:05 | |
| jeblair | (i don't have anything to say about this, though i feel positively about it) | 19:05 |
| pabelanger | I am excited! | 19:05 |
| mordred | yay! | 19:05 |
| pabelanger | looking forward to ansible launcher | 19:05 |
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| mordred | me too | 19:06 |
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| jeblair | this isn't actually assigned to anyone, though i think we all actually expect/believe that mordred is/will be working on it | 19:06 |
| yolanda | i'd love to see puppet apply come to life | 19:06 |
| yolanda | and get rid of puppetmasters | 19:06 |
| anteaya | I think he will think about it from time to time | 19:06 |
| pabelanger | I plan to shadow development, i have a hack going local already :) | 19:07 |
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| jeblair | pabelanger: so maybe you and mordred should chat when mordred is on a higher-bandwidth device | 19:07 |
| jeblair | (i believe he's currently on a phone in a cab) | 19:07 |
| pabelanger | jeblair, I don't have an issue with that | 19:07 |
| nibalizer | I assume we will also be quick adopters of that effort | 19:08 |
| jeblair | oh, i am mistaken, this is assigned to mordred and nibalizer | 19:08 |
| fungi | yeah, that's why i didn't council +1 it. was uncomfortable with the idea of an approved spec with no assignee | 19:08 |
| jeblair | sorry about that, it's the next one that's unassigned | 19:08 |
| yolanda | nibalizer, yes, we need to be | 19:08 |
| fungi | the next one, right | 19:08 |
| mordred | I am arriving at the tel Aviv airport in fact | 19:08 |
| pabelanger | I'd actually like to see it as its own playbook but that is just me | 19:08 |
| jeblair | pabelanger: so talk to mordred + nibalizer if you want to pitch in | 19:08 |
| pabelanger | (the launcher part) | 19:08 |
| mordred | pabelanger: ++ | 19:08 |
| mordred | I agree | 19:08 |
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| jeblair | #topic Specs approval: Puppet 4 preparation and testing (mordred) | 19:09 |
| jeblair | #link puppet4 testing spec http://specs.openstack.org/openstack-infra/infra-specs/specs/puppet_4_prelim_testing.html | 19:09 |
| jeblair | #info puppet4 testing spec was approved | 19:09 |
| pabelanger | jeblair, will do | 19:09 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Specs approval: Puppet 4 preparation and testing (mordred) (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:09 | |
| mordred | yay | 19:09 |
| jeblair | okay, so _this_ is the one with no assignee | 19:09 |
| nibalizer | yay testing | 19:09 |
| jeblair | fungi: i sympathize with your concern... | 19:09 |
| fungi | right, i was cool with the spec as written, but abstained from the vote | 19:09 |
| mordred | I will not do much on this one any time soon | 19:10 |
| jeblair | i think we certainly won't approve a priority effort spec without a point person | 19:10 |
| mordred | would love a human intetested | 19:10 |
| mordred | ++ | 19:10 |
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| jeblair | i'm sort of ambivalent otherwise... | 19:10 |
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| jeblair | this does seem like something that someone new to the project might be able to pick up and help on | 19:10 |
| jeblair | so it seemed like it might be worth having it written and approved | 19:11 |
| fungi | "low-hanging spec" | 19:11 |
| crinkle | i can work on this | 19:11 |
| * taron is curious, but doesn't have a good idea of what puppet testing even looks like | 19:11 | |
| jeblair | at any rate, maybe we avoid making policy for now; play it by ear, and see what happens? | 19:11 |
| mordred | ++ | 19:11 |
| fungi | should be fine | 19:11 |
| anteaya | taron: figure out puppet first before you commit to testing | 19:11 |
| jeblair | but also keep fungi's concern in mind and not go crazy with the non-assignee specs | 19:11 |
| jeblair | crinkle: and that's cool :) | 19:11 |
| jeblair | #topic Specs approval: Maniphest bug tracking (mordred) | 19:12 |
| jeblair | #link maniphest spec http://specs.openstack.org/openstack-infra/infra-specs/specs/maniphest.html | 19:12 |
| jeblair | #info maniphest spec was approved | 19:12 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Specs approval: Maniphest bug tracking (mordred) (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:12 | |
| fungi | well, after taron finishes the code search spec, that should provide ample introduction to puppet | 19:12 |
| jeblair | fungi, taron: ++ | 19:12 |
| anteaya | cool | 19:12 |
| mordred | yay | 19:12 |
| pleia2 | fungi: nods | 19:12 |
| jeblair | i find that i would really like to use this asap for infra-cloud work | 19:13 |
| anteaya | didn't zaro say he would look into standing one up? | 19:13 |
| *** sdake_ is now known as sdake | 19:13 | |
| jeblair | well, mordred has a lot of work in progress/nearly completed on it | 19:14 |
| anteaya | ah great | 19:14 |
| fungi | well, there is a demo one already running, but... yeah having one spun up from the puppet module would be swell | 19:14 |
| fungi | not sure what it's present status is | 19:14 |
| jeblair | at any rate, i'm highly motivated to review its patches. just throwin' that out there. ;) | 19:14 |
| pabelanger | fungi, I don't mind firing up a puppet module, if one needs to be done | 19:15 |
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| jeblair | we have a puppet-phabricator module | 19:15 |
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| pabelanger | right, I meant testing / debuging locally | 19:16 |
| pabelanger | my bad | 19:16 |
| jeblair | ah ok | 19:16 |
| mordred | I am happy to work in it tomorrow with someone | 19:16 |
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| mordred | it's ready for next steps | 19:16 |
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| jeblair | w00t | 19:16 |
| mordred | and I'm home tomorrow | 19:17 |
| jeblair | even more w00ty | 19:17 |
| mordred | so I can work | 19:17 |
| jeblair | #topic Specs approval: Puppet Functional Testing (nibalizer, crinkle) | 19:17 |
| jeblair | #link puppet functional testing spec http://specs.openstack.org/openstack-infra/infra-specs/specs/puppet-module-functional-testing.html | 19:17 |
| jeblair | #info puppet functional testing spec was approved | 19:17 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Specs approval: Puppet Functional Testing (nibalizer, crinkle) (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:17 | |
| lifeless | s/work/review/ | 19:17 |
| * mordred hands lifeless a somewhat unused entrecôte | 19:18 | |
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| jeblair | i think our first stab at this with puppet-openstackci is about ready to land | 19:18 |
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| nibalizer | yea | 19:18 |
| jeblair | could probably use another review | 19:18 |
| mordred | !!! yay! | 19:18 |
| openstack | mordred: Error: "!!" is not a valid command. | 19:18 |
| mordred | aw | 19:18 |
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| jeblair | #topic Specs approval: Host a code search service (taron, fungi, pleia2) | 19:19 |
| jeblair | #link code search spec http://specs.openstack.org/openstack-infra/infra-specs/specs/code-search.html | 19:19 |
| jeblair | #info code search spec was approved | 19:19 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Specs approval: Host a code search service (taron, fungi, pleia2) (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:19 | |
| nibalizer | we have some work to do around fully integrating zuul/zuul-cloner but I think jeblair is saying we can patch that in a bit later | 19:19 |
| fungi | i gather taron will be freed up from classes to work on this in another couple weeks | 19:19 |
| mordred | yay | 19:19 |
| fungi | just wanted to make sure we had some good guidance in place for the project | 19:20 |
| fungi | not sure there's anything else to add at this stage | 19:20 |
| pleia2 | I think that's it, she knows were to find us :) | 19:20 |
| fungi | besides thanks taron! | 19:20 |
| jeblair | awesome, so we should not expect this to start in earnest for a little bit | 19:20 |
| * taron is free of it now, digging into go portions this week | 19:20 | |
| jeblair | oh even better! | 19:21 |
| fungi | oh! right, there was some upstream fixing/triage to do as part of it | 19:21 |
| fungi | anyway, ask questions in irc, point us at changes to review when it gets to that point | 19:21 |
| pleia2 | ++ | 19:21 |
| taron | will do | 19:21 |
| jeblair | we don't have any new specs ready for voting this week; but that's okay, last week will keep us busy for a while. | 19:22 |
| mordred | uhm, yeah | 19:22 |
| jeblair | #topic Schedule Project Renames | 19:22 |
| fungi | there are some administrivia cleanup patches to existing specs which i'm unclear how those are handled | 19:22 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Schedule Project Renames (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:22 | |
| jeblair | fungi: oh, yeah, er, poke me for aprv if i get behind? | 19:22 |
| jeblair | we're definitely not going to vote on them formally or anything | 19:22 |
| fungi | jeblair: i'll take a look through them later today | 19:22 |
| fungi | we renamed some stuff, boy howdy | 19:23 |
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| mordred | mad props to fungi and jeblair | 19:23 |
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| fungi | though keystone already has a new rename on the way | 19:24 |
| AJaeger | fungi, jeblair, anteaya: Thanks for those renames! | 19:24 |
| pleia2 | yeah, nice work guys | 19:24 |
| jeblair | related to this, i have proposed https://review.openstack.org/192016 | 19:24 |
| jeblair | probably could have gotten its own agenda item... | 19:24 |
| pleia2 | it's been an interesting discussion so far | 19:25 |
| jeblair | but anyway, it's exploring the idea that there's not much difference between stackforge and big-tent-openstack, and we should retire the use of stackforge in favor of just having projects be in openstack | 19:25 |
| jeblair | mostly, i want us to stop renaming projects as part of their development lifecycle because that just seems crazy to me | 19:25 |
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| bswartz | +1 | 19:26 |
| jeblair | not sure where it's going to go, but other options have been thrown out as well, such as "provisinal use of openstack namespace" etc | 19:26 |
| mordred | ++ | 19:26 |
| mordred | I support our non rename overlords | 19:26 |
| jeblair | so i'm hoping that regardless of what final form it takes, we can stop renaming projects unless, you know, they need to be _renamed_ :) | 19:26 |
| fungi | per my review comment, i'd also love for this to provide additional impetus for clearing up the cla situation | 19:26 |
| mordred | ++ | 19:27 |
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| jeblair | fungi: yeah, considering we have "official" projects in infra without a cla, that's also weird. | 19:27 |
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| fungi | agreed | 19:28 |
| jeblair | anyway... er, we talked about shade-core membership already, so... | 19:28 |
| jeblair | #topic Hosting for Manila service image (u_glide, bswartz) | 19:28 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Hosting for Manila service image (u_glide, bswartz) (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:28 | |
| bswartz | u_glide1: ping | 19:29 |
| u_glide1 | Hello folks! | 19:29 |
| u_glide1 | I'm core team member of Manila project. We have created new sub-project manila-image-elements which produces a binary image in qcow2 format. This image is used by our devstack plugin and we need to host this image somehow. Is it possible to host this image as regular release on http://tarballs.openstack.org/ ? And does it have enough bandwidth? | 19:29 |
| jeblair | Hello u_glide1! | 19:29 |
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| jeblair | i think/hope the answer to all is yes | 19:30 |
| fungi | this seems like the agent images we already build and host for... is it ironic? | 19:30 |
| fungi | trove? | 19:30 |
| mordred | yup | 19:30 |
| fungi | both? | 19:30 |
| bswartz | is there an example of how others do this that we can simply copy? | 19:30 |
| jeblair | so yes, there are some jobs already that publish images to tarballs.o.o. i think they are post jobs? | 19:30 |
| * SpamapS is having de ja vu | 19:30 | |
| jeblair | then we would want to get that image listed in devstack so that it is cached on our build nodes | 19:30 |
| fungi | SpamapS may be well-placed to provide guidance here too ;) | 19:31 |
| AJaeger | u_glide1: see jenkins/jobs/trove.yaml in project-config | 19:31 |
| jeblair | that means that we wouldn't have to download it every time (but our images only update once per day) | 19:31 |
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| u_glide1 | AJaeger: thanks, looking | 19:31 |
| bswartz | jeblair: caching sounds like an excellent idea | 19:31 |
| fungi | the middle ground is that devstack can perhaps download if what's hosted is newer than what's cached | 19:32 |
| SpamapS | It's probably worth seeing if the method devstack uses to download the image supports If-Modified-Since. | 19:32 |
| jeblair | fungi: yeah (though that works better if it doesn't update too often) | 19:32 |
| u_glide1 | jeblair: caching +100 | 19:33 |
| fungi | so you get the extra download overhead until the next worker image update happens in nodepool, allowing you to fix blocking bugs in your jobs that might depend on an updated image | 19:33 |
| SpamapS | I presume our static hosting site would respond appropriately. | 19:33 |
| bswartz | the qcow2 would be updated for every commit to the manila-image-elements project, but commits would be hopefully rare | 19:33 |
| jeblair | (as a side note, i believe the list of images to cache should end up moving into DIB in project-config soonish; devstack is not really the right place anymore) | 19:33 |
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| jeblair | (but it's still currently devstack) | 19:33 |
| jeblair | bswartz, fungi: that sounds reasonable | 19:33 |
| fungi | SpamapS: our static hosting site is currently filesystem-backed apache, so yes. eventually swift with some cdn, but probably still yes in that case? | 19:33 |
| SpamapS | agree, dib's caching is pretty strong on this front too. | 19:34 |
| SpamapS | fungi: CDN will definitely support IMS | 19:34 |
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| SpamapS | I kind fo hope swift does. | 19:34 |
| fungi | i kind of would be surprised if it doesn't | 19:34 |
| fungi | for very large values of "kind of" | 19:34 |
| SpamapS | so anyway, it sounds like its more important that it find its way into the images | 19:35 |
| jeblair | oh, also, how large is it? | 19:35 |
| SpamapS | u_glide1: ^ what he said. | 19:35 |
| bswartz | ~300MB? | 19:35 |
| u_glide1 | 300 Mb | 19:36 |
| bswartz | there's an effort to make it smaller but that's what it is right now | 19:36 |
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| jeblair | we are getting closser and closer to hitting the limit with this methodology; we may have to eventually switch to using per-region mirrors and _not_ local image caching. | 19:36 |
| fungi | that's not too much larger than http://tarballs.openstack.org/ironic-python-agent/coreos/ | 19:37 |
| jeblair | (or at least, anything < X MB gets cached, anything larger gets on the per-region mirror) | 19:37 |
| fungi | but yeah, death by a thousand cuts | 19:37 |
| zaro | o/ | 19:37 |
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| jeblair | u_glide1, bswartz: does that cover your questions? | 19:37 |
| fungi | especially when some of our providers now only give us a 20gb filesystem | 19:37 |
| SpamapS | I dunno | 19:38 |
| u_glide1 | yes, seems that we just should copy trove project config and that's it :) | 19:38 |
| mordred | jeblair: ++ to large in per region mirrors | 19:38 |
| SpamapS | I think glance and nova-compute will be more efficient at spraying bits onto compute nodes than local mirrors and vms will. | 19:38 |
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| SpamapS | There may be some cognitive overhead in the image approach that I'm missing though. | 19:38 |
| u_glide1 | thanks a lot guys! | 19:38 |
| bswartz | yes | 19:39 |
| bswartz | ty | 19:39 |
| jeblair | SpamapS: definitely, but we're running out of space on the dsvm images we create | 19:39 |
| jeblair | bswartz, u_glide1: you're welcome. thanks for asking. :) | 19:39 |
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| mordred | SpamapS: small disk on flavors | 19:39 |
| SpamapS | jeblair: right, and as I think about it, the hit rate doesn't go up with more cached things, just the breadth of things that can be serviced, so I think the mirror approach does make more sense as we add more things. | 19:39 |
| mordred | yah | 19:40 |
| jeblair | SpamapS: yep, and hopefully we can drive frequent jobs to use things that are cached | 19:40 |
| jeblair | (i'm certain we can continue to cache cirros) | 19:40 |
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| mordred | do I invoke Andrew's law if I say afs? | 19:41 |
| fungi | good point. having stats on what we mirror to tell us what's heavily used can provide us guidance on what to switch to local caches | 19:41 |
| mordred | fungi: ++ | 19:41 |
| jeblair | mordred: i thought 'per-region mirror' was spelled 'afs' | 19:41 |
| mordred | jeblair: :) | 19:41 |
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| jeblair | #topic Mid-cycle (virtual) meetup (pabelanger) | 19:41 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Mid-cycle (virtual) meetup (pabelanger) (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:41 | |
| * krotscheck makes a note to have everything javascript be spelled "AFS" | 19:41 | |
| fungi | yeah, there's definitely no reason why a static file mirror shouldn't just be an afs volume mounted on the workers | 19:42 |
| pabelanger | mostly a simple question, if there is any need or upcoming mid-cycle meeting. | 19:42 |
| pabelanger | travel requests are being asked for | 19:42 |
| jeblair | i've heard some good suggestions for things we might do that could reasonably benefit from in-person time: 1) hack on infra-cloud; 2) zuulv3. | 19:42 |
| jeblair | as far as zuulv3 goes, i haven't gotten the spec in shape to be approved yet. | 19:43 |
| jeblair | i mean, i'm optimistic and all, and i expect to do that this week. but that's just where we are. | 19:43 |
| timrc_ | I would be supportive of a mid-cycle for zuul v3 hackery. | 19:43 |
| cody-somerville | I'm very interested in hacking on improving CI/CD of infra itself. | 19:43 |
| fungi | people _seem_ to be progressing on infra-cloud without being in the same room | 19:44 |
| jeblair | i personally don't want to travel just for the sake of it, so i'd set a pretty high bar for what we want to do and why we need to be in person | 19:44 |
| pleia2 | my summer is largely spoken for already | 19:44 |
| pabelanger | jeblair, right. I agree with that | 19:44 |
| jeblair | (my productivity drops when i travel) | 19:44 |
| fungi | i'm buying a house, and i expect that to make travel i haven't planned for yet a little more of a stretch for me | 19:44 |
| jeblair | i'm also a big fan of virtual sprints | 19:45 |
| pleia2 | our team manages to do a good job with virtual sprints | 19:45 |
| fungi | i assume zuul v3 will progress pretty steadily once there's a spec formalized too | 19:45 |
| fungi | in-person sprint or no | 19:45 |
| jeblair | i feel like we've had some good face-time with infra-cloud that put us in a good place to proceed offline for a while | 19:45 |
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| jeblair | and i lean toward saying we should not plan on meeting just for that, at least, unless we find it going off into the weeds and we need to redesign something to get it back on track | 19:46 |
| pleia2 | most of the key folks on infra-cloud are on the west coast, might be easier just to gather the few of us for a few days here than a larger infra meeting | 19:46 |
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| jeblair | but for the moment, we've got a roadmap and we just need to move | 19:46 |
| pleia2 | but I don't strictly see it as required right now | 19:46 |
| SpamapS | jeblair: concur that we have plenty to do that is clear and actionable offline on infra-cloud. | 19:47 |
| jeblair | jhesketh was around earlier, but i don't see him now. i'll try to speak for him and say that getting together lets us overcome the timezone difficulty. | 19:47 |
| jhesketh | I'm in support of a mid cycle. It's perhaps a personal thing or maybe a time zone thing, but it's massively easier to maintain momentum working on something when you can turn to the relevant person and have them look over your shoulder | 19:47 |
| jeblair | oh there he is! | 19:47 |
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| anteaya | jhesketh: hobart is an option? | 19:48 |
| jeblair | maybe we should do more virtual sprints (or even mini-sprints) to help with at least the timezone part of that (if not the in-person part) | 19:48 |
| jhesketh | So with virtual sprints I'd like to see more hand over between timezones, but that's a tangent | 19:48 |
| fungi | i think that's a realistic expectation | 19:48 |
| pleia2 | jhesketh: I think that's something we can work on doing a better job of | 19:48 |
| jeblair | ++ | 19:48 |
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| jhesketh | anteaya: sure, but I think it makes more sense to be closer to the majority of people to reduce costs and increase attendance | 19:49 |
| anteaya | jhesketh: :) | 19:49 |
| anteaya | just love the view from your house | 19:49 |
| fungi | additionally, interest more apac people in infra so jhesketh isn't as lonely ;) | 19:49 |
| pabelanger | jhesketh, because I don't know, which TZ (location) are you based out of? | 19:49 |
| * jeblair moves west | 19:49 | |
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| jhesketh | Utc+10 | 19:49 |
| anteaya | jeblair: you'll get wet | 19:49 |
| fungi | jeblair: i hear french polynesia is lovely this^H^H^H^Hany time of year | 19:50 |
| mrmartin | and bora bora too, we have a user group there | 19:50 |
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| mrmartin | but I don't know how active they are | 19:51 |
| * krotscheck thinks the productivity benefit of colocation may be offset by the relaxation benefit of the location. | 19:51 | |
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| fungi | this has sort of transitioned into the next topic | 19:51 |
| timrc_ | I'm okay with a sprint objective of margarita | 19:51 |
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| jhesketh | I think the part lost with virtual sprints is pair programming which can be a great way of getting things done and helping each other out (not to mention learning) | 19:52 |
| fungi | my productivity massively increases proportional to my relaxation | 19:52 |
| anteaya | jhesketh: you make a good point | 19:52 |
| yolanda | jhesketh, i agree with you, the ones with different timezones have that more difficult, and sprints help with that | 19:52 |
| jhesketh | I think there is room for both virtual and physic sprints but I have a personal preference for physical | 19:53 |
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| ianw | if you want to make it sydney, let me know and i'll get space at red hat. good view | 19:53 |
| fungi | it sounds like the contributors working on specific efforts might benefit from finding somewhere mutually agreeable to get together and focus on something for a few days or a week without it needing to be an official "team" event | 19:54 |
| jhesketh | So even aside from timezones I've had great success working on projects face to face with teams just in Australia. It helps create a focused environment and encourage that team work | 19:54 |
| krotscheck | There's specific sprint days at PyCon AU in August. | 19:54 |
| jeblair | fungi: that might be a bit more manageable | 19:54 |
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| jhesketh | krotscheck: indeed, those are great too! :-) | 19:54 |
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| fungi | also, the pycon au point... if people find that they're going to be at a conference with collaborators on something, extend your stay a day or two to hack on whatever it is you're collaborating on | 19:55 |
| jeblair | who's at pyconau and who's at oscon? | 19:55 |
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| anteaya | https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/pyconau-sprints | 19:55 |
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| anteaya | <-- pyconau | 19:55 |
| nibalizer | i'll be in pdx for oscon | 19:55 |
| fungi | i'll be at oscon and there are a couple days in there where i'm not spoken for | 19:55 |
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| jhesketh | Extending on what fungi said, I think it's important for mid cycles to be very much optional | 19:56 |
| crinkle | i'll also be in pdx for oscon | 19:56 |
| jhesketh | I'll be at pyconau | 19:56 |
| pleia2 | not strictly attending, but I'll be around oscon sat-tuesday (fly home wednesday afternoon) | 19:56 |
| ttx | I'll be in pdx for oscon too | 19:56 |
| jhesketh | But nothing else yet | 19:56 |
| fungi | pleia2: aww, you won't be there for my talk! ;) | 19:56 |
| jeblair | pleia2: i was also considering the beer track | 19:56 |
| jesusaurus | i'm on the hallway track for oscon | 19:56 |
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| pleia2 | fungi: I know, sadness! | 19:56 |
| fungi | it's okay, i hear from the author that it'll likely be really boring | 19:56 |
| pabelanger | jhesketh, maybe the question is where are people going, and see what overlap there is for sprints | 19:56 |
| pleia2 | fungi: it'll be wonderful, I am actually quite sorry to miss it | 19:57 |
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| fungi | i don't sell it very well | 19:57 |
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| jeblair | at any rate, it sounds like we are unlikely to have a formal general infra team meetup at this point | 19:58 |
| jhesketh | pabelanger: sure, so long as it's a good fit and people won't be burnt out from the conference to work for a week | 19:58 |
| jeblair | but keeping the door open to virtual sprints, conference overlap, and more focused events | 19:58 |
| jeblair | #topic Open discussion | 19:58 |
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| *** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:58 | |
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| jeblair | (not that it wasn't already, but hey we have 2 mins left) | 19:58 |
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| mrmartin | what's the status of Zanata integration? | 19:59 |
| pleia2 | mrmartin: still hacking away at it, StevenK is working on the import scripts we'll use and I'm in the process of fixing a restart bug with our puppet module | 19:59 |
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| mrmartin | great, thnx | 20:00 |
| pleia2 | still aiming for having a test instance to the i18n team with current translations imported by early july | 20:00 |
| jeblair | thanks everyone! | 20:00 |
| jeblair | #endmeeting | 20:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 20:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Jun 16 20:00:14 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 20:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2015/infra.2015-06-16-19.02.html | 20:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2015/infra.2015-06-16-19.02.txt | 20:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2015/infra.2015-06-16-19.02.log.html | 20:00 |
| jhesketh | Thanks :-) | 20:00 |
| jeblair | ttx: o/ | 20:00 |
| jaypipes | o/ | 20:00 |
| sdague | o/ | 20:00 |
| flaper87 | o/ | 20:00 |
| ttx | Anyone (else) here for the TC meeting ? | 20:00 |
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| devkulkarni | devkulkarni | 20:00 |
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| ttx | russellb, jgriffith, annegentle, lifeless, mordred, dtroyer, markmcclain, dhellmann: around ? | 20:00 |
| markmcclain | o/ | 20:01 |
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| ttx | I know anne is not around today | 20:01 |
| lifeless | hai | 20:01 |
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| ttx | that makes 7, let's start this | 20:01 |
| lifeless | I'm here on the keyboard, can't make any assertions about mental state | 20:01 |
| ttx | #startmeeting tc | 20:02 |
| * flaper87 hands lifeless some coffee \_/? | 20:02 | |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Jun 16 20:02:06 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is ttx. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 20:02 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 20:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:02 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'tc' | 20:02 |
| ttx | Meeting agenda for today: | 20:02 |
| lifeless | flaper87: child with post-tonsilectomy-pain | 20:02 |
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| ttx | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/TechnicalCommittee | 20:02 |
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| flaper87 | lifeless: :( | 20:02 |
| ttx | #topic Add compute starter kit tag | 20:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Add compute starter kit tag (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:02 | |
| edleafe | o/ | 20:02 |
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| ttx | #link https://review.openstack.org/180112 | 20:02 |
| ttx | sdague rewrote his proposal to clarify that it is really meant as a starter kit rather than a core / kernel / layer1 | 20:03 |
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| sdague | hey, so there is a new revision out there | 20:03 |
| adrian_otto | ttx can we add https://review.openstack.org/190949 to the agenda backlog please? | 20:03 |
| ttx | two weeks ago we agreed that the TC should have an opinion on "start here for this use case today", and I think this strikes the right wording | 20:03 |
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| ttx | adrian_otto: that was on today's agenda | 20:03 |
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| adrian_otto | oh, sorry I missed it! | 20:03 |
| ttx | adrian_otto: would you prefer it not discussed today ? | 20:03 |
| adrian_otto | nm, I retract my request | 20:03 |
| flaper87 | I think the wording improved a lot and it's clearer | 20:04 |
| ttx | On the compute starter kit tag -- Obviously there will still be people opposed or indifferent to it, but I think we can reach a majority on this first version, and iterate on it | 20:04 |
| sdague | people that didn't like the last one philosophically are probably not likely to like this one, however people that found confusion in the last one might hopefully find this clearer | 20:04 |
| krotscheck | o/ | 20:04 |
| ttx | I would be fine removing the dependency on an ops:production-ready tag, since it's a bit unlikely we'd have that anytime soon | 20:04 |
| ttx | But I'd be fine with that being submitted as a subsequent change | 20:04 |
| ttx | I find it always easier to merge a version and iterate than try to come up with the perfect thing in one go | 20:04 |
| sdague | given that it's a light TC week, I'd also recommend we have a discussion slice next week. With only 7 folks here it's hard to get all the thoughts on the table | 20:05 |
| j^2 | o/ | 20:05 |
| flaper87 | yeah, that's the only reason I didn't +1 it for now | 20:05 |
| zaneb | sdague: I think this is really moving in a better direction, I appreciate all your work on taking into account the feedback | 20:05 |
| lifeless | ++ | 20:06 |
| lifeless | I'm quite comfortable with it | 20:06 |
| flaper87 | sdague: +1 on holding off until next week. That'll give folks some extra time to think this through | 20:06 |
| jaypipes | sdague: I'd be +1 if you removed that one requirement about the production-readiness sign-off by the ops community. | 20:06 |
| lifeless | we could tweak forever | 20:06 |
| flaper87 | that said, I'm happier with this version | 20:06 |
| ttx | sdague: would you consider removing the dependency on an hypothetical ops production-ready tag ? | 20:06 |
| flaper87 | and removing the production requirement would be preferable | 20:06 |
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| sdague | sure, I can remove that bit | 20:06 |
| jaypipes | sdague: it's light-years better than the original kernel:compute proposal. | 20:06 |
| sdague | I'd do that post meeting | 20:06 |
| jaypipes | sdague: excellent work on the rewrite. | 20:06 |
| sdague | jaypipes: well, that's how we make the sausage | 20:06 |
| zaneb | is there a reason for laying out the requirements at all? | 20:06 |
| zaneb | last time we talked about just making an opinionated decision | 20:07 |
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| dhellmann | o/ | 20:07 |
| flaper87 | would it be crazy to say that we could eventually have a starter_kit in devstack ? (that's pretty much what it does already, since things are being moved out to plugins) | 20:07 |
| ttx | sdague: frankly, we have plenty of time in this meeting, so if you want to take 5 minutes to edit it and collect +1s, that could save us a slot next week | 20:07 |
| sdague | so, I feel like they inform the decision to be made. And I like why's more than just things. | 20:07 |
| ttx | We have a huge backlog with stuff proposed late last week | 20:07 |
| jaypipes | zaneb: the requirements for the tag lay out at least a reasonable set of considerations vs. just "my opinion". | 20:07 |
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| flaper87 | I think the requirements provide some extra info on why those projects are also considered part of the starter kit | 20:08 |
| ttx | I like the requirements. | 20:08 |
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| ttx | I just feel like we won't have an ops production-ready (binary) tag anytime soon | 20:08 |
| sdague | ttx: well, I'd still like to leave a discussion window because we're missing half the TC, and the draft only hit yesterday | 20:08 |
| jaypipes | ttx, flaper87: I like them as well, save for the productionness one. | 20:08 |
| flaper87 | jaypipes: yup yup | 20:08 |
| jaypipes | sdague: agreed | 20:08 |
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| sdague | I don't want anyone feeling like they were run over with this | 20:08 |
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| sdague | because that was not the intent | 20:08 |
| jaypipes | right | 20:08 |
| flaper87 | +1 | 20:09 |
| flaper87 | well, early feedback from me: +1 | 20:09 |
| ttx | sdague: alright, fair enough | 20:09 |
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| sdague | ok, well, once we get to another topic, I'll edit and update, so we'll have it before the meeting is over | 20:09 |
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| sdague | any further questions / comments? | 20:09 |
| ttx | ok, we can come back to it and collect early votes at the end of the meeting then | 20:09 |
| sdague | sounds good | 20:09 |
| ttx | let's cover the other topics now | 20:10 |
| ttx | #topic Adding distribution packaging to OpenStack | 20:10 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Adding distribution packaging to OpenStack (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:10 | |
| ttx | #link https://review.openstack.org/185187 | 20:10 |
| ttx | On this one, I think the ones advocating for waiting for the team to form first were right | 20:10 |
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| ttx | Since in the last two weeks, the discussion went from scoping this to RPM+DEB, to Ubuntu+Debian only, to Ubuntu jumping off the boat (yesterday) | 20:11 |
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| jaypipes | jamespage: did you see my recent question to you on the ML thread about packaging? It was to inform my decision on this particular governance proposal.... | 20:11 |
| ttx | So this all only confirms my opinion that we should wait to first have a working, scoped team before we recognize it as an OpenStack project team. | 20:11 |
| jeblair | ttx: or phrased another way, the folks who wanted a concrete proposal before doing anything were right :) | 20:11 |
| ttx | jeblair: we were both right I think | 20:11 |
| flaper87 | agreed, I was clear last week on the intensions for this proposal but things seem to have shifted a bit | 20:11 |
| lifeless | ttx: anything proposed late last week is not backlog | 20:11 |
| lifeless | ttx: it becomes backlog next week | 20:12 |
| jeblair | at any rate, it does seem like this is losing steam | 20:12 |
| ttx | lifeless: anything proposed post Friday 0800 utc is backlog | 20:12 |
| ttx | lifeless: according to the rules we agreed on at the start of this cycle | 20:12 |
| lifeless | ttx: I think thats too narrow to get folk form opinions | 20:12 |
| dhellmann | I think it would be fine if zigo wanted to put the repositories he uses for packaging up on gerrit, but I agree that we should have some team collaborating before we call them a team | 20:12 |
| lifeless | ttx: sure, I think we made a mistake | 20:12 |
| jaypipes | zigo: you around? | 20:12 |
| zigo | Hi. | 20:12 |
| zigo | I am. | 20:12 |
| ttx | lifeless: I don't get it -- want more time or less time ? | 20:13 |
| zigo | Reading ... | 20:13 |
| * jaypipes disappointed this has lost steam... | 20:13 | |
| lifeless | ttx: more, but I'm distracting from the main event. | 20:13 |
| jeblair | back to the issue -- i'm pretty bummed because it seems like at the summit a lot of folks thought this was a good idea | 20:13 |
| zigo | I think I'll use stackforge to start with. | 20:13 |
| lifeless | ttx: so, stack.push(); packaging.discuss() | 20:13 |
| jaypipes | jeblair: ++ I am bummed as well. | 20:13 |
| zigo | That's fine. | 20:13 |
| flaper87 | zigo: that's a good call | 20:13 |
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| zigo | So let's put this as WIP, and revisit later, ok? | 20:14 |
| ttx | dhellmann: right, and FTR I'm fine with creating a bunch of repositories. But for the sake of not renaming / moving them to attic because nobody uses them, I'd rather see the discussion on the team scope continue for a bit | 20:14 |
| AJaeger | zigo: Or Abandon and un-abandon later ;) | 20:14 |
| zigo | Paul Belanger needs help anyway for packaging stuff for infra. | 20:14 |
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| dhellmann | ttx: sure | 20:15 |
| zigo | So the project needs to happen anyway. | 20:15 |
| jeblair | i'm not opposed to stackforge for this | 20:15 |
| zigo | (ie: packaging zuul + nodepool) | 20:15 |
| dhellmann | ttx: I'll defer to jeblair on naming, since it's the infra team that has the burden of dealing with renames | 20:15 |
| zigo | (and others...) | 20:15 |
| flaper87 | zigo: I think starting somewhere and working out the requirements is a good thing. It'll help building a better/stronger proposal | 20:15 |
| AJaeger | we have now RDO and SUSE folks talking about this as well - there's a separate patch for that... | 20:15 |
| ttx | zigo: you mean that even if it's only you/Debian, you'd still do it under openstack infrastructure, right ? | 20:15 |
| flaper87 | zigo: if there's anything we can do to help out with the organization/teams do let us know | 20:16 |
| zigo | ttx: Yes, but it may not be the way I thought to begin with. | 20:16 |
| jeblair | (i'm not going to be super-excited to move it, but i also don't want to get in the way of work while we figure that out) | 20:16 |
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| ttx | zigo: me neither tbh | 20:16 |
| zigo | ttx: I'll have to think about how, and see if the team inside Mirantis wants to do it with me as well. | 20:16 |
| ttx | zigo: it's less compelling, but that doesn't mean it's a bad thing to have | 20:16 |
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| zigo | We're having a meeting at the end of the month (29th to 3rd), we'll see what comes out of the discussions in Moscow. | 20:17 |
| zigo | brb | 20:17 |
| jeblair | AJaeger: makes an interesting point -- we still have at least one .deb and two .rpm groups interested in the general concept | 20:18 |
| ttx | zigo: so yes you can WIP it (by prefixing the git commit title with WIP) or abandon it temporarily to get it out of the agenda until ready | 20:18 |
| jeblair | do we want to ask them both to start in stackforge, or give them both provisional access to openstack/ namespace? | 20:18 |
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| AJaeger | jeblair: see https://review.openstack.org/191587 | 20:18 |
| zigo | ttx: deal ! | 20:19 |
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| zigo | Yeah, I need to know where to host stuff. /stackforge or /openstack, both is fine to me, but I'd like a definitive answer ASAP, as it's been a real blocker for nearly a month now. | 20:19 |
| dhellmann | jeblair: I think using the openstack/ prefix is fine in this case | 20:20 |
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| ttx | dhellmann: it will need a adopting project | 20:20 |
| ttx | (or be attached as a TC repo) | 20:20 |
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| zigo | Please get a vote on the namespace today, so it can move forward (and again, i don't mind either ways...) | 20:21 |
| ttx | (I'm fine with all solutions: stackforge, openstack under TC, openstack under X) | 20:21 |
| dhellmann | ttx: ok, I guess we're sticking to that for now? I thought we discussed the option for provisional repos. | 20:21 |
| lifeless | ditto | 20:21 |
| * AJaeger is just a bit scared of 200 repos under stackforge that in a few months will move to openstack... | 20:21 | |
| jeblair | why not just approve the project with the current small team? | 20:21 |
| AJaeger | zigo: how large is the team? Right now it looks like it's just you, is that correct? | 20:22 |
| ttx | jeblair: I'm slightly worried that zigo will ragequit and not do it upstream since the others don't want to play in the same sandbox | 20:22 |
| flaper87 | I honestly would prefer to give it some time to mature before approving the project | 20:22 |
| ttx | but then we can retire the team I guess | 20:22 |
| sdague | well, do we need an update on the scope of the proposal? Maybe that becomes more clear. I think even if it's just a debian effort for some tools, doing it our collab framework is nice | 20:22 |
| flaper87 | lets let them figure things out and come back with a stronger (or just clearer) proposal | 20:22 |
| zigo | AJaeger: At the end of the month, I hope it's going to be others from Mirantis too, but for the moment, yeah, just me. | 20:22 |
| jeblair | sdague: ++ | 20:22 |
| flaper87 | sdague: that's what I'd like to see clarified in the proposal | 20:23 |
| sdague | I really don't want to do the magnum thing and have four months of stall because of a namespace decision | 20:23 |
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| sdague | because that's silly | 20:23 |
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| zigo | FYI, I had the project to do packaging in upstream infra since a long time ago. | 20:23 |
| adrian_otto | sdague: +1 | 20:23 |
| ttx | sdague: right, which is wjy I offer we create the repo anyway | 20:23 |
| zigo | Monty can confirm we had such a discussion back in Atlanta. | 20:23 |
| zigo | I *never* give-up, I'm obstinated ! :) | 20:24 |
| flaper87 | I think having the repo as a TC (or provisional) repo is fine | 20:24 |
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| flaper87 | The problem is not the repo/namespace (or it shouldn't be) | 20:24 |
| sdague | so, here's the thing, zigo has been around for a while, and hasn't rage quit yet, even when we've given him some reasons to :) | 20:24 |
| flaper87 | if that doesn't work out well (which I doubt), then fine | 20:24 |
| ttx | jeblair: prefer stackforge or openstack-provisionally-under-TC-attached-repos ? | 20:24 |
| sdague | so I'm happy that if we have a more concrete and narrowly scoped proposal to put it in openstack and let it be a thing | 20:24 |
| ttx | sdague: yeah, me too | 20:24 |
| jeblair | let's do that | 20:25 |
| jaypipes | ++ | 20:25 |
| flaper87 | woohhhooo | 20:25 |
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| fungi | thank you for not planning a 200+ repo rename ;) | 20:25 |
| zigo | \o/ | 20:25 |
| markmcclain | +1 | 20:25 |
| dhellmann | ++ | 20:25 |
| zigo | fungi: It wont be that much, I've listed about 120 only! :) | 20:25 |
| ttx | I'm fine with a narrowly-scoped team that says "zigo and friends will do Debian" -- I was just skeptical of "all distros will collaborate together here" | 20:25 |
| sdague | zigo: ok, so by next week, please have a proposal revision | 20:25 |
| fungi | last weekend't 61 repo rename was plenty painful | 20:25 |
| AJaeger | zigo: 120 for now ;) | 20:25 |
| zigo | fungi: And to begin with, it's going to be a lot less. | 20:25 |
| * dhellmann hopes they are all named consistently | 20:26 | |
| zigo | I'll start slowly, and see how it goes... | 20:26 |
| flaper87 | dhellmann: ++ | 20:26 |
| AJaeger | ttx: The extra time helped to figure out that Deb + RPM really are too different for one team... | 20:26 |
| flaper87 | zigo: updates on the progress are really appreciated | 20:26 |
| jaypipes | "Zigo and Friends" sounds like a new Saturday morning cartoon that would come on after Spongebob Squarepants. | 20:26 |
| fungi | i'm not concerned by the number of repos, just needing to rename them all from stackforge to openstack at some point, so starting in openstack sounds good to me ;) | 20:26 |
| jeblair | zigo: talk to the rpm folks too to agree on a compatible repo naming scheme | 20:26 |
| ttx | zigo: if you rework your proposal while we discuss another topic, we could pick it up at the end of this meeting and collect early approvals on it | 20:27 |
| zigo | dhellmann: It's going to be github.com/something/deb-<package-name> as per the name of packages at https://qa.debian.org/developer.php?login=openstack-devel@lists.alioth.debian.org | 20:27 |
| jeblair | sounds good | 20:27 |
| jeblair | wonder what the rpm folks use? | 20:27 |
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| dhellmann | that looks pretty clear | 20:27 |
| ttx | jeblair: next week topic I guess | 20:27 |
| flaper87 | no idea | 20:27 |
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| AJaeger | jeblair: Debian: cinder, RDO/SUSE: openstack-cinder | 20:28 |
| zigo | AJaeger is correct, so it wont be the same repo names. | 20:28 |
| jeblair | right, but will the packaging repos end up being 'rpm-openstack-cinder' or something? | 20:28 |
| ttx | ok, let's move on and wait for the narrowly-scoped proposal to appear | 20:28 |
| sdague | ttx: ++ | 20:28 |
| ttx | #topic Add Solum to OpenStack Projects List | 20:28 |
| zigo | jeblair: I believe so. | 20:28 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Add Solum to OpenStack Projects List (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:28 | |
| ttx | #link https://review.openstack.org/190949 | 20:28 |
| ttx | Had two questions, posted them on the review | 20:29 |
| ttx | 1/ I had the impression this was slowly losing steam, I guess mostly because I saw Adran focused on Magnum and dual-PTLing | 20:29 |
| adrian_otto | jogo had raised a concern about IRC logging. The channel has been logged since day one in 2013 at https://botbot.me/freenode/solum/ and the meeting topic announces that. | 20:29 |
| sdague | fyi - https://review.openstack.org/#/c/180112/5 is revised (the compute starter kit update with production ready removed and typos fixed) | 20:29 |
| jeblair | adrian_otto: it would be good to add solum to the openstack irc bots | 20:29 |
| ttx | sdague: will pick it up at eom | 20:30 |
| adrian_otto | ttx, the developer activity level is healty, but the externally visible PTL outputs are lower because of split focus. | 20:30 |
| dhellmann | adrian_otto: do you object to having it logged along with the other openstack channels? | 20:30 |
| adrian_otto | dhellmann: not at all, | 20:30 |
| adrian_otto | I'm happy to switch it | 20:30 |
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| ttx | adrian_otto: do you have plans for succesion planning ? | 20:30 |
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| dhellmann | I wouldn't mind both, but adding openstack is a pre-req | 20:30 |
| lifeless | ttx: did you just ask for plans about plans... | 20:30 |
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| lifeless | ttx: METAPLAN | 20:30 |
| ttx | lifeless: maybe it's early for you, but here it's late ! | 20:31 |
| sdague | on the solum thing, the only thing that stuck out to me was I wonder if we have a diverse_team:danger_will_robinson tag, because stackalytics for liberty is ... pretty mono culture | 20:31 |
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| lifeless | ttx: oh its late for my brain today. CANNOT BRAIN | 20:31 |
| adrian_otto | yes, I plan to serve the current term through Liberty, and we can welcome a new leader at the next election if I need to continue focusing on Magnum | 20:31 |
| jeblair | oh, i think we're only missing eavesdrop; the other bots are there | 20:31 |
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| jeblair | won't be a problem. | 20:31 |
| ttx | 2/ I still have qualms about squarely adding a PaaS project to OpenStack, big tent or not | 20:31 |
| j^2 | I’d like to say that I’ve always like the project Solum, i just wish it got more development and eyes on | 20:31 |
| adrian_otto | or we can transplant the role to a successor if the team feels they need it | 20:31 |
| ttx | but I think I may be in minority there | 20:31 |
| dougwig | adrian_otto: just have people go all game of thrones over the position. | 20:31 |
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| sdague | ttx: yeh, for me, scope is not a concern, if there are people working on it | 20:32 |
| adrian_otto | dougwig: ;-) | 20:32 |
| sdague | it feels cloud scope, even if it's at the top end of our current function stack | 20:32 |
| datsun180b | so which one of us is Stannis? | 20:32 |
| ttx | sdague: right, fits the "vaguely related to openstack mission" enough | 20:32 |
| dhellmann | sdague: I concur with the diversity concern, but we've removed that requirement for new projects | 20:32 |
| sdague | dhellmann: right, we've removed it, I just wonder if we should have a 3rd tier in our tag | 20:33 |
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| sdague | where something is over 90% a single org | 20:33 |
| datsun180b | we've (read: adrian) has been working hard to clean up our tasks and make it easier to see what is a ground-floor bug and what isn't in LP | 20:33 |
| ttx | dhellmann, sdague: about the diversity:danger, I think it's more a data point that the project is losing steam, rather than a reason for exclusion | 20:33 |
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| dhellmann | sdague: ah, like an explicit "not diverse" tag? | 20:33 |
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| sdague | because that's a very dangerous place for a project to be | 20:33 |
| sdague | dhellmann: yeh | 20:33 |
| ttx | hence my question | 20:33 |
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| dhellmann | yes, not so many commits this cycle, either | 20:34 |
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| adrian_otto | dhellmann: we productized it | 20:34 |
| zaneb | http://stackalytics.com/?project_type=stackforge&module=solum-group&metric=commits&release=kilo <- so this is probably the relevant graph to look at | 20:34 |
| ttx | adrian_otto: would you say the project is rackspace-only at this point ? or it's just an unfortunate stats for start-of-liberty that shall correct itself ? | 20:34 |
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| dhellmann | adrian_otto: I'm not sure what you mean by that | 20:34 |
| adrian_otto | so it's now the basis of a production cloud service that's coming to market | 20:34 |
| flaper87 | adrian_otto: do you think the above is something that'll change later this cycle? | 20:34 |
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| sdague | ttx: right, again, I wouldn't exclude solum for that. But I'd like it to trigger a conversation about 3rd tag state on diversity | 20:35 |
| adrian_otto | so the activity level needed to integrate it with a public cloud will be redirected back upstream post launch | 20:35 |
| flaper87 | fungi: has 5 commits there | 20:35 |
| adrian_otto | since that work is done | 20:35 |
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| jeblair | fungi is a machine. | 20:35 |
| flaper87 | jeblair: ++ | 20:35 |
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| jeblair | well, a script, actually. | 20:36 |
| fungi | i suppose so | 20:36 |
| ttx | ok so.. looks like there aren't so many questions, we just need to collect votes | 20:36 |
| fungi | literally | 20:36 |
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| flaper87 | if we solve the 3rd tag state that sdague mentioned, I'd be comfortable with getting it in | 20:36 |
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| flaper87 | but that shouldn't block solum | 20:36 |
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| fungi | i can personally guarantee my commits there are exceedingly trivial ;) | 20:36 |
| * flaper87 just contradicted himself | 20:37 | |
| sdague | heh | 20:37 |
| ttx | fungi: which makes it even, more a rax-only show | 20:37 |
| * flaper87 no brain power | 20:37 | |
| sdague | so summary, +1, though I'd feel better with my +1 if there was a PTL election now, because the current PTL has said they don't have time for the project | 20:37 |
| ttx | Alright, I think we can move on, will take some time to add votes to it, given the low attendance | 20:38 |
| lifeless | sdague: +1 | 20:38 |
| adrian_otto | sdague: the team should decide what's working for them | 20:38 |
| ttx | right, I like the idea of having projects relatively healthy at the time of their addition | 20:38 |
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| adrian_otto | look at the blueprint list and bug list. It's totally up to date. | 20:39 |
| datsun180b | and it's ^ his fault primarily | 20:39 |
| dhellmann | adrian_otto: the ptl role is an interface to the rest of the projects, though, and part of being an official project is making sure those responsibilities are being fulfilled. It's not all about internal leadership. | 20:39 |
| adrian_otto | but there was a time while I was getting magnum ready for launch where I was less involved that I have been in recent weeks | 20:39 |
| dhellmann | that's not to say you're not doing a good job, just that it becomes more than the team's needs now | 20:40 |
| adrian_otto | dhellmann: fair enough. My suggestion is try it, and if it's not working, I can abdicate to a successor. | 20:40 |
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| ttx | ok, let's move on | 20:40 |
| dhellmann | so that's 2 things we'd have to take on faith: team diversity and PTL capacity and energy | 20:40 |
| ttx | will take some time to get to enough votes to pass anyway | 20:41 |
| * flaper87 will bring this back to the review | 20:41 | |
| ttx | dhellmann: maybe add those to the review for reference ? | 20:41 |
| dhellmann | ttx: doing that now | 20:41 |
| * flaper87 will let dhellmann do it | 20:42 | |
| jeblair | dhellmann: well, we don't have to take diversity on faith, we know it's not diverse | 20:42 |
| flaper87 | :P | 20:42 |
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| ttx | back to the future... | 20:42 |
| ttx | #topic Add compute starter kit tag | 20:42 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Add compute starter kit tag (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:42 | |
| ttx | sdague posted new revision | 20:42 |
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| ttx | time to follow up those +1 promises | 20:42 |
| jeblair | this is more like groundhog day | 20:42 |
| ttx | "up on those" I guess would be better | 20:42 |
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| dhellmann | jeblair: I meant that it will increase | 20:43 |
| sdague | dhellmann: the promiss is the activity will increase | 20:43 |
| ttx | dhellmann: I'm not sure we have a promise on diversity increase -- and I guess that's fine | 20:43 |
| dhellmann | sdague: right, that's what we're taking on faith | 20:43 |
| sdague | the diversity will actually go down, because it's all rax product folks | 20:43 |
| ttx | but I agree that critical levels of non-diversity could make up a good tag | 20:43 |
| jeblair | dhellmann: right; i'm not sure it will. i'm not sure i would say we should vote on it expecting that. | 20:43 |
| sdague | though, it's currently 99% on commits and 100% on reviews, so it can't really get worse | 20:44 |
| * fungi enjoys being the 1% anomaly everywhere | 20:44 | |
| sdague | fungi: you aren't the 1% in liberty :) | 20:44 |
| ttx | I propose we move on to WG reports while we colect votes on the tag | 20:44 |
| flaper87 | I can work on a proposal for the "spartans" tag | 20:44 |
| fungi | sdague: oh, even better! | 20:44 |
| ttx | #topic Project team guide workgroup report | 20:45 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Project team guide workgroup report (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:45 | |
| ttx | Remember we'll have a virtual sprint on Thursday-Friday to jumpstart this | 20:45 |
| ttx | (I have a few meetings 1400-1700 on the Thursday but otherwise will be around on channel) | 20:45 |
| flaper87 | I'll participate on Thursday but I'll be flying on Friday | 20:45 |
| ttx | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/VirtualSprints#OpenStack_Project_Team_Guide | 20:45 |
| ttx | The openstack/project-team-guide repo is now ready for use, thanks to jeblair | 20:45 |
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| ttx | I may cheat and work on the intro tomorrow | 20:45 |
| jeblair | did we decide where to publish it? | 20:46 |
| ttx | jeblair: not really. | 20:46 |
| flaper87 | from the communication WG, I think we should hold-off until next week when we'll have more things to share | 20:46 |
| jeblair | (we have docs-draft builds working, so we'll be able to see it rendered in review during the sprint; so this isn't urgent) | 20:46 |
| ttx | jeblair: I assumed it could live under governance.o.o but I have no strong opinion on that | 20:46 |
| ttx | #topic Communications workgroup report | 20:46 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Communications workgroup report (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:46 | |
| ttx | flaper87: that's what you said next week though ? | 20:47 |
| jeblair | ttx: okay, i'll work on publishing it there | 20:47 |
| ttx | arh *last* week | 20:47 |
| flaper87 | last week there weren't any posts | 20:47 |
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| flaper87 | and I think we'll hold off until next week | 20:47 |
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| flaper87 | Since we'll have more to talk about | 20:47 |
| flaper87 | unless there are things you guys would like ot communicate | 20:47 |
| ttx | flaper87: true that we only have partial decisions today so far | 20:47 |
| flaper87 | yeah, not worth it, IMHO | 20:48 |
| flaper87 | I can start workin on a draft and avoid having it published on friday | 20:48 |
| flaper87 | At least with the initial contents from today's meeting | 20:48 |
| flaper87 | that's about it | 20:48 |
| ttx | though we could pass the starter-kit tag with sdague, dhellmann and jeblair's votes | 20:48 |
| * markmcclain has to step out from meeting | 20:48 | |
| ttx | and markmcclain | 20:49 |
| sdague | ttx: right, but I really would feel uncomfortable about that | 20:49 |
| flaper87 | although that's true, I'd also appreciate other folks comments | 20:49 |
| lifeless | ttx: you also have mine, unless gerrit barfed | 20:49 |
| dhellmann | sdague: what's the plan for this new tag? is it your intent to use this in any way to build other tags, or in any other way change the relationship between projects at the TC level or for governance in some way? | 20:49 |
| sdague | I think we should give this the week, and get as many TC members to voice their opinions on there. | 20:49 |
| ttx | sdague: OK, i'll keep it alive until next week | 20:49 |
| ttx | #topic Other workgroups | 20:50 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Other workgroups (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:50 | |
| ttx | Any other workgroup (or workgroup embryo) wanting to report ? | 20:50 |
| lifeless | architecture - mark and I haven't synced up yet; this week I have been super distracted by cynthias tonsillectomy | 20:50 |
| sdague | dhellmann: my intent is that we can use this as a common set of language for new folks coming in about where to start. | 20:50 |
| * ttx looks up words | 20:50 | |
| lifeless | \everything\ gets hard during that | 20:50 |
| lifeless | ttx: removal of tonsils | 20:50 |
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| * ttx looks up more words | 20:51 | |
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| lifeless | ttx: big spongy things in throat that help immune system for first couple years | 20:51 |
| dhellmann | sdague: ok. I would object to using this to make any project more special than any other in the overall tent, but if it's just documentation then I can put aside my assertion that it should live in a documentation repository. | 20:51 |
| lifeless | ttx: also a related set in the back of the nose | 20:51 |
| ttx | lifeless: sounds painful enough. | 20:51 |
| lifeless | ttx: yeah. cut out and cauterised. 10 day recovery | 20:51 |
| sdague | dhellmann: I'm hoping that the new language explains that well enough, if not, let me know where you think there needs to be clarity | 20:51 |
| ttx | Alright, anyone else? | 20:52 |
| dhellmann | sdague: the current language is clear, but I'm frankly worried about it because of all of the past drafts. I don't want us to ever have a requirement that a project must have this tag in order to get something from the community, for example. | 20:52 |
| dougwig | sdague: to some degree, it doesn't matter on the wording, but rather how it's received/used. note how 'core' has taken on a meaning entirely different from anything written down. | 20:53 |
| sdague | dougwig: sure, and I do understand that | 20:53 |
| ttx | #topic Open discussion | 20:53 |
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| *** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:53 | |
| sdague | but as I hopefully layed out, without this we're loosing getting a bunch of folks through the door. I'm hoping this makes an easy door to get them inside, so they can understand all the cool stuff in OpenStack | 20:53 |
| ttx | Remember we are still looking for volunteers to chair the cross-project meeting: | 20:54 |
| ttx | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/CrossProjectMeeting#Chair_rotation | 20:54 |
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| krotscheck | I have updates to the CORS specification from last week, as requested-> https://review.openstack.org/#/c/189924/ | 20:54 |
| ttx | I wrote a "meeting chair guide" to help the volunteers, it's at the same URL ^^ | 20:54 |
| ttx | Nobody nominated for this week so I'll do it. Would be nice to have a volunteer for next week, though | 20:54 |
| ttx | Anyone ? | 20:54 |
| ttx | ... | 20:55 |
| SlickNik | ttx: I can do it next week — let me sign up on the wiki. | 20:55 |
| ttx | SlickNik wins! | 20:55 |
| ttx | thx | 20:55 |
| sdague | cross project meeting starts cutting into dinner / family time in this TZ, so not it | 20:55 |
| ttx | Also: The M naming poll is under way. | 20:55 |
| ttx | I won't be *that* person and complain my favorite option was unfairly excluded by evil poll organizers :) | 20:55 |
| lifeless | yeah, this is also time for me to do C -> kindy | 20:56 |
| jeblair | ttx: i have a change up to address that: https://review.openstack.org/191974 | 20:56 |
| ttx | jeblair: I saw that. | 20:56 |
| ttx | jeblair: which is why I tease. | 20:57 |
| ttx | About meetign time -- we could in theory move it to another slot. I just don't look forward working late at nights *two* nights per week | 20:57 |
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| ttx | Anything else, anyone ? | 20:59 |
| * dhellmann would be open to a morning meeting if that makes anything easier for lifeless & ttx | 20:59 | |
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| ttx | dhellmann: it's not totally crazy to rotate the cross-project meeting | 20:59 |
| dhellmann | ttx: oh, I was even talking about the tc meeting | 20:59 |
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| lifeless | ttx and I are the two corners of a triangle | 20:59 |
| flaper87 | and me | 20:59 |
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| lifeless | dhellmann: is the third | 20:59 |
| lifeless | nothing can make it easier for both of us at once ;) | 21:00 |
| * dhellmann straightens out his pointy hat | 21:00 | |
| flaper87 | lifeless: :( | 21:00 |
| ttx | tc is a harder thing. We tried and failed. I'm fine with where it stands now | 21:00 |
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| lifeless | flaper87: we both live in the best place in the world | 21:00 |
| lifeless | flaper87: don't feel too sorry :) | 21:00 |
| * flaper87 thinks we should all move to NZ (or move lifeless to EU) | 21:00 | |
| ttx | alright time is up | 21:00 |
| nikhil_k | Blacksburg is awesome too | 21:00 |
| ttx | #endmeeting | 21:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 21:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Jun 16 21:00:46 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 21:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2015/tc.2015-06-16-20.02.html | 21:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2015/tc.2015-06-16-20.02.txt | 21:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2015/tc.2015-06-16-20.02.log.html | 21:00 |
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| * jasondotstar waves at flaper87 | 21:01 | |
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| flaper87 | jasondotstar: yo :D | 21:02 |
| ttx | courtesy ping for david-lyle flaper87 dims ttx johnthetubaguy rakhmerov | 21:02 |
| ttx | courtesy ping for smelikyan morganfainberg bswartz slagle adrian_otto mestery | 21:02 |
| ttx | courtesy ping for kiall jeblair thinrichs j^2 stevebaker mtreinish Daisy | 21:02 |
| ttx | courtesy ping for notmyname dtroyer isviridov gordc SlickNik loquacities thingee | 21:02 |
| thingee | o/ | 21:02 |
| ttx | courtesy ping for hyakuhei redrobot TravT emilienm SergeyLukjanov devananda | 21:02 |
| ttx | courtesy ping for boris-42 nikhil_k | 21:02 |
| notmyname | here | 21:02 |
| j^2 | o/ | 21:02 |
| ttx | thx script | 21:02 |
| SlickNik | here | 21:02 |
| mestery | o/ | 21:02 |
| hogepodge | o/ | 21:02 |
| SergeyLukjanov | o/ | 21:02 |
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| ttx | #startmeeting crossproject | 21:02 |
| stevebaker | \o | 21:02 |
| david-lyle | o/ | 21:02 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Jun 16 21:02:51 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is ttx. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 21:02 |
| pshige | o/ | 21:02 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 21:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: crossproject)" | 21:02 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'crossproject' | 21:02 |
| ttx | Today's agenda: | 21:02 |
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| ttx | #link http://wiki.openstack.org/Meetings/CrossProjectMeeting | 21:03 |
| bknudson | hi | 21:03 |
| etoews | o/ | 21:03 |
| morganfainberg | stevemar: ^^ | 21:03 |
| ttx | #topic Horizontal teams announcements | 21:03 |
| johnthetubaguy | o/ | 21:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Horizontal teams announcements (Meeting topic: crossproject)" | 21:03 | |
| nikhil_k | o/ | 21:03 |
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| ttx | On the release management front, liberty-1 is next week | 21:03 |
| dhellmann | o/ | 21:03 |
| ttx | #info for projects we manage that are using development milestones, we expect the PTL (or release liaison) to show up next Tuesday to sync with us during office hours | 21:03 |
| ttx | 0800-1000 UTC or 1800-2000 UTC in #openstack-relmgt-office | 21:03 |
| ttx | That will let us double-check implemented blueprints and discuss when to tag | 21:03 |
| ttx | Questions on that ? | 21:03 |
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| dims | o/ | 21:04 |
| redrobot | o/ | 21:04 |
| j^2 | nope | 21:04 |
| sdague | #info QA: grenade external plugins open for business in the big tent - http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2015-June/066583.html | 21:04 |
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| sdague | I brought that up previously in this meeting, just wanted to make sure teams saw the information was out there in how to get started | 21:04 |
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| SlickNik | sdague: very cool — thanks for the info. | 21:05 |
| * jroll arrives a bit late | 21:05 | |
| boris-42 | ttx: hi=) | 21:06 |
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| sdague | if there are any questions, no is good, or put on the list | 21:06 |
| sdague | </end> | 21:06 |
| SlickNik | I know at least a couple of people on trove who were previously working on a grenade job — will pass the info along to make sure they see it. | 21:06 |
| sdague | s/no/now/ | 21:06 |
| dims | #info Oslo: Request from Oslo team for Liberty Cycle - http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2015-June/067131.html | 21:06 |
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| dims | A handful of items for projects who use oslo, please take a look | 21:07 |
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| ttx | Other horizontal teams announcements ? | 21:08 |
| * dims not sure if this was vertical or horizontal :) | 21:08 | |
| ttx | It is HORIZONTAL | 21:08 |
| dims | :) | 21:08 |
| Rockyg | o/ | 21:08 |
| johnthetubaguy | dims: thats a good tick list, appreciated! | 21:08 |
| ttx | I think I may merge the two sections for clarity :) | 21:08 |
| fungi | dims: oslo is a diagonal effort | 21:09 |
| dims | haha | 21:09 |
| fungi | (i have no idea what that means, but it sounds cool) | 21:09 |
| ttx | Rockyg: is that a "I have announcement" or "I'm here" sort of o/ ? | 21:09 |
| edleafe | o/ | 21:09 |
| dims | thanks johnthetubaguy | 21:09 |
| SlickNik | dims: ++ will follow up. | 21:09 |
| dims | thanks SlickNik | 21:10 |
| * edleafe is just saying hi | 21:10 | |
| * Rockyg is lurking but here for in support of API standards | 21:10 | |
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| ttx | #topic Server versioning changes (dhellmann) | 21:10 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Server versioning changes (dhellmann) (Meeting topic: crossproject)" | 21:10 | |
| ttx | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2015-June/067006.html | 21:10 |
| ttx | dhellmann: ohai | 21:10 |
| dhellmann | here! | 21:10 |
| dhellmann | As we have discussed a couple of times, we’re switching the server projects to semver versioning. | 21:10 |
| dhellmann | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2015-May/065211.html | 21:11 |
| dhellmann | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2015-June/thread.html#65278 | 21:11 |
| dhellmann | I have submitted patches to all of the projects managed by the release team: | 21:11 |
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| dhellmann | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/q/topic:semver-releases,n,z | 21:11 |
| dhellmann | If you agree with the numbering scheme, we need those to land before the L-1 milestone next week. | 21:11 |
| dhellmann | They’re failing right now because the versions go backwards. I’ll be pushing alpha tags to correct that tomorrow. | 21:11 |
| dhellmann | Does anyone have questions about the versions proposed, or anything else related to this change? | 21:11 |
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| bknudson | what is a non-backwards compat change (requires major version bump) for server projects? The interface to keystone is, for example, keystone-manage. | 21:11 |
| bknudson | The REST API has its own versioning (V2.0, V3) | 21:12 |
| dhellmann | yeah, some of that is still up for discussions | 21:12 |
| dhellmann | some proposals have been when migrations are squashed, meaning that upgrades have to pass through that version | 21:12 |
| lifeless | bknudson: indeed; I'd argue any of: removing something from the API; changing the contract of the CLI, including adding new required config options or removing config options | 21:12 |
| dhellmann | also we've discussed tagging a new major version each cycle, just because | 21:12 |
| lifeless | bknudson: or more broadly 'if users or deployers need to care, then its incompatible and we should signal that' | 21:13 |
| SpamapS | config file changes would be backward compatability concerned | 21:13 |
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| ttx | note that for projects under the development-milestone regime, they will just use X.0.0 like they used YYYY.Z.0 | 21:13 |
| johnthetubaguy | dhellmann: upgrade is the big one for me with my Nova hat on, we have lots of compat code for live-upgrades we want to keep dropping each release | 21:13 |
| ttx | they would not switch to semver | 21:13 |
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| ttx | that is more for projects that would do intermediary releases | 21:14 |
| dhellmann | johnthetubaguy: yes, right | 21:14 |
| notmyname | we bumped the major version in swift when we made a major change that would cause data unavaialbility if you downgraded | 21:14 |
| johnthetubaguy | dhellmann: but we have a few months to answer that question, luckly | 21:14 |
| dhellmann | notmyname: another good one | 21:14 |
| ttx | dhellmann: anything else on that topic ? | 21:15 |
| dhellmann | so we'll figure those things out when the time comes, and I'll keep notes from all of these ideas | 21:15 |
| dhellmann | nope, that's it unless there are more questions | 21:15 |
| fungi | one item which has come up is that we've got recent-ish security advisories mentioning upcoming scheduled releases explicitly. we'll need errata to correct all those if the renumbering implementation is not delated to after the next scheduled releases | 21:15 |
| fungi | s/delated/delayed/ | 21:15 |
| fungi | mainly wanting to confirm how soon this is planned for the api server projects so that we can plan accordingly | 21:16 |
| ttx | fungi: our plan is to have those in place to tag X.0.0b1 instead of 2015.2.0b1 at liberty-1 | 21:16 |
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| fungi | okay, so we're not changing tag sequence on any existing stable branches | 21:16 |
| ttx | not at all | 21:16 |
| dhellmann | no, this is just for liberty and forward | 21:16 |
| fungi | that covers my concerns. thanks! | 21:17 |
| ttx | kilo would likely still generate 2015.1.Z | 21:17 |
| lifeless | has to | 21:17 |
| ttx | doing otherwise would be even more confusing | 21:17 |
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| fungi | yep, that makes sense. thanks | 21:17 |
| dims | ++ | 21:17 |
| ttx | alright, moving on then | 21:17 |
| dhellmann | oh, I did also post about this to the operators list | 21:17 |
| ttx | #topic Clarification on the return code when a server has a hard coded length limit | 21:17 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Clarification on the return code when a server has a hard coded length limit (Meeting topic: crossproject)" | 21:17 | |
| dhellmann | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-operators/2015-June/007390.html | 21:17 |
| ttx | oops | 21:17 |
| ttx | The API working group has one new guidelines that is entering the freeze period: | 21:18 |
| dhellmann | sorry about that | 21:18 |
| ttx | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/181784/ | 21:18 |
| ttx | They would like PTLs/CPLs, and other interested parties, to take a look at these reviews. | 21:18 |
| ttx | They will use lazy consensus at the end of the freeze to merge them if there are no objections. | 21:18 |
| * nikhil_k giving one review | 21:18 | |
| ttx | We can use a bit of time in this meeting to discuss it, if you have comments | 21:18 |
| ttx | etoews: you there ? | 21:18 |
| etoews | i'm all ears | 21:18 |
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| nikhil_k | shouldnt it be 413? | 21:19 |
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| morganfainberg | nikhil_k: that is if the request entity is too large, not the response | 21:20 |
| bknudson | might want to differentiate from 413 Request Entity Too Large and 414 Request-URI Too Long | 21:20 |
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| ttx | morganfainberg: ++ | 21:21 |
| morganfainberg | nikhil_k: the advisory for the WG proposal is saying if the response is too large - you're getting a400 back, not a request or uri too long | 21:21 |
| krotscheck | Hrm. And 416 is bytes only. | 21:21 |
| morganfainberg | krotscheck: yep | 21:21 |
| morganfainberg | krotscheck: only on a range request | 21:21 |
| morganfainberg | this is either a 500 (bad idea) or a 400 (more correct) | 21:21 |
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| ttx | right 400 is fine | 21:21 |
| krotscheck | morganfainberg: Well, it's technically a range request, it's just not a range of bytes #semantics | 21:22 |
| krotscheck | indeed | 21:22 |
| nikhil_k | spec says: If API limits the length of collection type property, the return code49 should be **400 Bad Request** when request exceeding limited length. | 21:22 |
| jroll | wait, where are we seeing this is about range requests | 21:22 |
| SlickNik | Doesn't this imply that the request is too large: "If API limits the length of collection type property, the return code | 21:22 |
| SlickNik | should be **400 Bad Request** when the request exceeds the length limit." | 21:22 |
| lifeless | there's very little benefit in some of these fine-grained codes | 21:22 |
| jroll | looks to me like... what nikhil_k said. | 21:22 |
| bknudson | just wondering - do we only care about the response code and not about any extra info that should be returned? | 21:22 |
| bknudson | so we return 400 but seems like there should also be some info that allows the client to recover | 21:23 |
| jroll | (ignore me, I'm misreading things) | 21:23 |
| bknudson | they don't know which field was too long otherwise | 21:23 |
| bknudson | or maybe you don't want to tell them for security reasons | 21:23 |
| etoews | bknudson: this guideline only covers the status code | 21:23 |
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| lifeless | all HTTP errors are mean to come witha body that describes in as much detail as the server wants to | 21:23 |
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| etoews | there's another guideline for errors | 21:24 |
| lifeless | the status code is purely for programmatic flow control on the client | 21:24 |
| morganfainberg | bknudson: i want to say we need to address that second part independenty of the status code. what hsould the extra data returned be? it could be combined or be separate | 21:24 |
| lifeless | this is an error | 21:24 |
| Rockyg | lifeless: ++ | 21:24 |
| lifeless | its not a 500 | 21:24 |
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| etoews | i should say the error format in a response body | 21:24 |
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| johnthetubaguy | 400 is less confusing than overloading some special value wrongly, which seemed to be the general idea we are heading towards, with more details in the body of the response | 21:24 |
| morganfainberg | so, we've specified the status code, now we need to handle the other data (lifeless ++) | 21:24 |
| lifeless | right; my point is just that 413 and 414 won't help a client go 'oh too many tags' | 21:24 |
| johnthetubaguy | 500 = server error, so lets rule that out, its a client based error | 21:24 |
| etoews | johnthetubaguy: ++ | 21:24 |
| SlickNik | johnthetubaguy: I agree ++ | 21:24 |
| lifeless | and so 400 is entirely appropriate | 21:25 |
| johnthetubaguy | lifeless: +1 | 21:25 |
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| ttx | Anyway, feels like you can comment (or +1) on the review | 21:25 |
| lifeless | So this API guideline tweak is entirely correct AFAICT. It might not go far enough, but as etoews says there are guidelines already for the body in this case. | 21:25 |
| bknudson | this is talking about the # of elements in a collection? | 21:25 |
| etoews | for reference, here's the guideline of errors #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/167793/ | 21:26 |
| bknudson | and not the length of a string or something? | 21:26 |
| etoews | s/of/for/ | 21:26 |
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| lifeless | bknudson: correct; https://review.openstack.org/#/c/181784/8/guidelines/tags.rst - expand the upper context | 21:26 |
| lifeless | the specific context here is a PUT | 21:26 |
| lifeless | I think the prose could be clearer | 21:26 |
| lifeless | but its reasonably sane if you read more context | 21:26 |
| bknudson | I assume you also don't want a tag that's 50 MB ? | 21:26 |
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| lifeless | that might trigger a 413 :) | 21:27 |
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| ttx | alright, I think we are back to where we started, so now is as good as any time to move on | 21:27 |
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| nikhil_k | :) | 21:28 |
| notmyname | I was reading that one wrong | 21:28 |
| ttx | go on the review and comment if you find anything | 21:28 |
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| ttx | #topic Library release ACL changes | 21:28 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Library release ACL changes (Meeting topic: crossproject)" | 21:28 | |
| ttx | #link https://review.openstack.org/189856 | 21:28 |
| ttx | dhellmann: you again | 21:28 |
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| morganfainberg | ttx: should that include KeystoneAuth once that is a thing? | 21:29 |
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| morganfainberg | dhellmann: ^ cc | 21:29 |
| ttx | morganfainberg: likely | 21:29 |
| dhellmann | We have a patch up to change the tagging permissions for projects that look like libraries: | 21:29 |
| dhellmann | #link https://review.openstack.org/189856 | 21:29 |
| dhellmann | I will be submitting another for the projects managed by the release team but not part of the old “integrated release”. | 21:29 |
| dhellmann | And then I plan to encourage the -infra team to prioritize those reviews so we can make the cut-over. | 21:29 |
| dhellmann | There is also a spec up discussing automation for reviews for tags. | 21:29 |
| dhellmann | #link https://review.openstack.org/191193 | 21:29 |
| dhellmann | Please take a few minutes to read through that and comment. | 21:29 |
| morganfainberg | ttx: sounds good, will put that on the backburner for as soon as we're ready for a 1.0 | 21:29 |
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| dhellmann | morganfainberg: yeah, we can add that | 21:30 |
| morganfainberg | dhellmann: yeah nothing to do yet, we're not ready for it to roll under tighter release mngmnt | 21:30 |
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| morganfainberg | dhellmann: but i'll keep it in mind | 21:30 |
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| dhellmann | morganfainberg: ok, there are a couple of steps, including marking it release:managed in governance and updating the ACLs file | 21:31 |
| ttx | also for reference and rationale: | 21:31 |
| ttx | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2015-June/066346.html | 21:31 |
| morganfainberg | dhellmann: i'll also run our rational by you agian when we're ready on how the project works (a little different than some of the other libs) | 21:31 |
| morganfainberg | dhellmann: but this can all be delayed. | 21:31 |
| dhellmann | morganfainberg: sounds good | 21:31 |
| morganfainberg | dhellmann: i want to move middleware under this model for sure sooner vs later though | 21:32 |
| morganfainberg | dhellmann: keystonemiddleware* | 21:32 |
| morganfainberg | dhellmann: i can ping you to get that added here / what else we need to do offline though | 21:32 |
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| dhellmann | morganfainberg: let's chat tomorrow | 21:32 |
| morganfainberg | dhellmann: sounds good | 21:32 |
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| anteaya | dhellmann: I'm fine on all the oslo libs moving over to library-release, as I assume dims and you talk regularly | 21:32 |
| ttx | other comments on that ? | 21:32 |
| dhellmann | anteaya: dims is on the release team, too, so he'll be handling those releases | 21:33 |
| anteaya | dhellmann: how can I see that all the other projects agree to this change? | 21:33 |
| anteaya | great | 21:33 |
| dhellmann | anteaya: this is their chance to disagree :-) | 21:33 |
| anteaya | so +1 on all oslo projects | 21:33 |
| * anteaya listens | 21:33 | |
| ttx | fwiw nobody objected on the ML thread nor on the review so far. | 21:34 |
| dhellmann | anteaya: but we're doing this for all projects managed by the release team, and those project teams have all agreed to that already, so it shouldn't be too big of an issue for anyone | 21:34 |
| johnthetubaguy | dhellmann: I commented on that review to say I am good with this for python-novaclient | 21:34 |
| dhellmann | johnthetubaguy: nice, thank you | 21:34 |
| johnthetubaguy | a team owning the constancy checks sounds good to me, helps us to not screw up | 21:34 |
| ttx | also easy to fix if some PTL ends up disagreeing next week | 21:34 |
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| anteaya | johnthetubaguy: thanks | 21:35 |
| anteaya | dhellmann: okey dokey | 21:35 |
| * anteaya +2's the patch | 21:35 | |
| fungi | yep, acls are far from being etched in stone | 21:35 |
| ttx | ok, I guess we can move on | 21:35 |
| ttx | #topic Vertical teams announcements | 21:35 |
| dhellmann | also keep in mind that as we get more of this automated, it'll feel a bit more natural | 21:35 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Vertical teams announcements (Meeting topic: crossproject)" | 21:35 | |
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| fungi | just as long as we can point confused people at the announcement, i'm good | 21:35 |
| notmyname | #info Swift has slightly changed its core team structure. There is now a separate swiftclient-core in addition to swift-core - http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2015-June/066982.html | 21:35 |
| dhellmann | fungi: ++ | 21:35 |
| dhellmann | SlickNik: you had something to bring up, didn't you? | 21:35 |
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| SlickNik | dhellmann: yes | 21:36 |
| SlickNik | I just wanted to follow up on one of the recent email threads on the mailing list that affects Trove in specific, and possibly other OpenStack services. | 21:36 |
| ttx | notmyname: any time window for the next swift release ? | 21:36 |
| ttx | (yet ?) | 21:36 |
| SlickNik | Referring to http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2015-June/065731.html (Protected openstack resources) | 21:36 |
| SlickNik | I think dhellmann and some others made some good points about deploying instances into a special tenant, and isolating them -- which seems to make sense to me, and we're going with this approach with Trove for now. | 21:36 |
| notmyname | ttx: I wish it would have happened already. there's one patch that needs to get in. I'll let you/dhellmann know as soon as I know something | 21:37 |
| ttx | notmyname: sounds good | 21:37 |
| SlickNik | However, even with this approach there were a few concerns that some of us had and so wanted to bring them up to see what other folks thought of them (not sure if some of these are unfounded): | 21:37 |
| ttx | dhellmann: if we come up with tag automation we could actually apply it to intermediary-released projects like swift too | 21:37 |
| SlickNik | 1. Deploying into a different tenant prevents sharing of resources across tenants -- for instance if I need to share a keypair, or security group with my instance I need to duplicate it in the other tenant. (Neutron) Ports are a common resource here that come to mind, but neutron has a way of attaching ports defined in one tenant to instances in another (admin / advanced-service role). | 21:37 |
| dhellmann | ttx: yes, I plan to rename release_library.sh to release_project.sh or something similar | 21:38 |
| ttx | that would streamline the release communication (currently a mix of IRC pings/emails) | 21:38 |
| dhellmann | ttx: yep, one step at a time :-) | 21:38 |
| dhellmann | SlickNik: is this a situation where being explicit about what is shared/visible could be considered a feature, though? | 21:39 |
| dhellmann | "I have 5 keys, but only 1 should be used for trove, so I only need to install that one in the second tenant" | 21:39 |
| SlickNik | dhellmann: We've got the use case for sec-groups in Trove, and the approach we're planning to take is similar — i.e. have an API to install that particular sec-group rule in Trove. | 21:40 |
| johnthetubaguy | I keep wondering about hierarchical tenants and things, but it feels overcomplicated | 21:40 |
| SlickNik | johnthetubaguy: Agree, me too. | 21:40 |
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| johnthetubaguy | so we have done this already, in a way, with swift and glance and how nova uses glance to store images | 21:40 |
| SlickNik | Don't have a clearcut solution yet. | 21:40 |
| fungi | part of the concern is to be able to consistently mitigate situations like bug 1445295 | 21:41 |
| openstack | bug 1445295 in Trove "Guestagent config leaks rabbit password" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1445295 - Assigned to Amrith (amrith) | 21:41 |
| stevebaker | SlickNik: I still wonder if switching to multi-tenant messaging would be less effort | 21:41 |
| fungi | trove has "secrets" in its instance boot images. if those are in a customer-controlled tenant, then the tenant has access to download that image and get at the gooey goodness therein | 21:41 |
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| morganfainberg | fungi: that is frightening | 21:42 |
| johnthetubaguy | fungi: yeah, they can't have access to this | 21:42 |
| stevebaker | locking all this down would be whack-a-mole | 21:42 |
| fungi | and i'm sure we have plenty of similar situations with other service platforms which rely on nova instances | 21:42 |
| SlickNik | stevebaker: unfortunatly switching to multi-tenant messaging for the guest still wouldn't solve this issue — you'd still have to deploy in a special trove tenant. | 21:42 |
| johnthetubaguy | nikhil_k: the glance and swift idea where you need both a service token and a user token to access something, how is that going? | 21:42 |
| johnthetubaguy | fungi: +1 | 21:42 |
| notmyname | johnthetubaguy: done on the swift side | 21:43 |
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| notmyname | johnthetubaguy: was in the kilo release | 21:43 |
| nikhil_k | johnthetubaguy: the work has some proof of concept impl | 21:43 |
| dhellmann | fungi: yeah, we solved it in akanda by having no secrets in the service vm and restricting access to the agent with a private network. Apparently that won't work for all of trove's use cases. | 21:43 |
| nikhil_k | demonstrated during the previous mid-cycle | 21:43 |
| johnthetubaguy | notmyname: ah, OK, so how does that model work, would it work here for trove? | 21:43 |
| notmyname | johnthetubaguy: not sure I understand the question. the model is simply "you need 2 tokens and they must both be valid (client and service tokens)" | 21:44 |
| SlickNik | dhellmann: I think we're gravitating towards at akanda like solution at the moment — although I would love to know more about the swift / glance dual token implementation. | 21:45 |
| dhellmann | SlickNik: yes, it sounds like there might be another option to consider | 21:45 |
| johnthetubaguy | notmyname: I was meaning what tenant has the resource? given the tokens are different teants I guess? | 21:45 |
| nikhil_k | SlickNik: let's sync offline on that | 21:45 |
| SlickNik | notmyname / nikhil_k: Will chat with you guys offline about that. | 21:45 |
| SlickNik | nikhil_k: Sounds good, thanks! | 21:45 |
| johnthetubaguy | so nova has a lock instance method | 21:45 |
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| johnthetubaguy | I am thinking a service could create a VM in some "locked" state with a dual token system | 21:46 |
| notmyname | johnthetubaguy: http://docs.openstack.org/developer/swift/overview_backing_store.html | 21:46 |
| SlickNik | notmyname: thanks for the link | 21:46 |
| johnthetubaguy | I guess the main thing I worry about is, what is wrong with just having all the VMs live in another tenant, to make sure we do fix the limitations with that model in anything else that gets planned | 21:47 |
| SlickNik | johnthetubaguy: Yes so a couple of other concerns that came up with having a special tenant were around rate-limits for it, and scale. | 21:47 |
| fungi | the other supporting use case which seems reasonable is that it's convenient for billing/quota purposes to have them technically count toward the customer's tenant | 21:48 |
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| SlickNik | fungi: yes that too. | 21:48 |
| ttx | SlickNik: have enough to follow-up off-meeting ? | 21:48 |
| SlickNik | So, I think I have some good direction here — don't want to rat hole on this too much. | 21:48 |
| SlickNik | ttx: yes | 21:48 |
| ttx | cool | 21:48 |
| ttx | hogepodge: I think you had something to mention ? | 21:48 |
| hogepodge | Yes, | 21:49 |
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| johnthetubaguy | SlickNik: I did comment on that in the spec I think, lets follow up later, I am half asleep right now I am afraid | 21:49 |
| hogepodge | I've been working on Defcore and Interoperability. | 21:49 |
| dhellmann | fungi: billing and quota can be handled if the app creating the instance has some other object that can be counted and that corresponds to the instance(s) | 21:49 |
| ttx | and doing some awesome work at it | 21:49 |
| hogepodge | We've run into Glance API version issues with testing. | 21:49 |
| johnthetubaguy | dhellmann: I think thats the gist of my comment in the spec | 21:49 |
| fungi | dhellmann: agreed, but that does mean additional complication on the billing side | 21:49 |
| hogepodge | A lot of the issues are captured in this review | 21:50 |
| hogepodge | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/189867/ | 21:50 |
| * nikhil_k clicks | 21:50 | |
| dhellmann | fungi: it's more complicated, but it's also explicit that you're charging for or applying a quota to a special thing, so we found it to pay off at dreamhost | 21:50 |
| ttx | hogepodge: mostly around nova not support glance v2, right ? | 21:50 |
| hogepodge | V1 is more widely deployed in testing (particularly with Nova) and the client. | 21:50 |
| hogepodge | Yes. | 21:50 |
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| ttx | johnthetubaguy: where are we standing on this ? Glance v2 support in Nova ? | 21:51 |
| johnthetubaguy | OK, so nova only has a image API thats glance v1 compatible right? | 21:51 |
| johnthetubaguy | ttx: I think jaypipes has offered to add support for glance v2 | 21:51 |
| fungi | dhellmann: though i think the "locked" instances idea also can be used to interpret the specialness and report it distinctly to the customer as such | 21:51 |
| hogepodge | johnthetubaguy: that's correct. There's an open blueprint that was too late for Kilo | 21:51 |
| nikhil_k | v2 support in Nova, coming up in L1 | 21:51 |
| nikhil_k | hope to get more reviews | 21:51 |
| hogepodge | But is supposed to be worked on in Liberty | 21:51 |
| hogepodge | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/+spec/use-glance-v2-api | 21:51 |
| dhellmann | fungi: that could be true | 21:51 |
| ttx | nikhil says L1, which means one week | 21:51 |
| nikhil_k | johnthetubaguy: flwang is working on it atm | 21:51 |
| hogepodge | nikhil_k: excellent | 21:52 |
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| johnthetubaguy | nikhil_k: OK, we need to get that approved for liberty, its not approved right now, and the deadline is next week sometime | 21:52 |
| nikhil_k | ttx: I just meant code sorry. The functionality may not be merged that soon | 21:52 |
| thingee | johnthetubaguy: we'll need to talk about nova defaulting v2 cinder as well. v2 support already exists. | 21:52 |
| ttx | nikhil_k: ah | 21:52 |
| hogepodge | nikhil_k: flwang: Is there anything I can help out with? | 21:52 |
| johnthetubaguy | nikhil_k: I think jaypipes said he would drive that, I should follow up with him | 21:52 |
| nikhil_k | johnthetubaguy: gotcha, on my list of TODOS now | 21:52 |
| johnthetubaguy | hogepodge: so I am still confused about the interop question and nova | 21:52 |
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| nikhil_k | hogepodge: I will add you to the email loop going for us all working on it | 21:52 |
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| johnthetubaguy | we have an image v1 compatible APi we have zero planns of adding an image v2 API in nova | 21:53 |
| nikhil_k | johnthetubaguy: sounds good. me too then, review helps would be much appreciated! | 21:53 |
| johnthetubaguy | what the issue with the tests here? | 21:53 |
| hogepodge | johnthetubaguy: we're using Tempest to drive interoperability testing. Right now we don't test image apis because there are vendors who object to v1 being required in the Tempest tests. | 21:53 |
| hogepodge | johnthetubaguy: which is a side effect of Nova only supporting v1 | 21:53 |
| johnthetubaguy | hogepodge: erm, not sure I get the implication there | 21:54 |
| * nikhil_k wants to clarify that email is only to track blokers for people already assigned and not for some secret communication | 21:54 | |
| fungi | some vendors implement only the glance v2 api customer-facing | 21:54 |
| fungi | by doing things like setting the v1 api rate limit to an impossibly low value like 0 | 21:54 |
| johnthetubaguy | fungi: agreed, due to the security issues in glance v1, if you expose glance v1 directly | 21:55 |
| fungi | yet tempest tests using v1 because that's what nova needs | 21:55 |
| johnthetubaguy | nova only needs that intnernally exposed | 21:55 |
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| fungi | and then there are other vendors who have not implemented glance v2 support yet | 21:55 |
| ttx | shouldn't tempest tests use v2 when testing glance external APIs ? | 21:55 |
| nikhil_k | they should | 21:55 |
| hogepodge | ttx glance isn't a required component of defcore | 21:56 |
| nikhil_k | but glance v1 is exposed in some cases | 21:56 |
| hogepodge | ttx: so we use the nova proxy | 21:56 |
| ttx | hmm, ok | 21:56 |
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| hogepodge | ttx: we could consider image as a required component. keystone was out until just a couple of months ago | 21:56 |
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| hogepodge | I can add this to the topics for next week if we want more time. | 21:57 |
| johnthetubaguy | hogepodge: so the other issue is the tests require the upload of an image, which is another issue I guess? | 21:57 |
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| johnthetubaguy | hogepodge: can we do this async | 21:57 |
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| ttx | I think it's a complex discussion and yes, more time can't hurt | 21:57 |
| johnthetubaguy | hogepodge: I can't think straight this late | 21:57 |
| hogepodge | johnthetubaguy: that's an important capability imo | 21:57 |
| ttx | hogepodge: maybe engage with John during the week | 21:57 |
| johnthetubaguy | so I support nova supporting glance v2, as we had planned for kilo | 21:58 |
| hogepodge | defcore meeting tomorrow too if anyone wants to participate. | 21:58 |
| ttx | and we can put it back on agenda next week | 21:58 |
| johnthetubaguy | the bigger issue is working out how to support some of the glance v1 APIs that don't work in glance v2 | 21:58 |
| hogepodge | johnthetubaguy: +1 to that | 21:58 |
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| johnthetubaguy | as nova has to have a glance v1 API exposed | 21:58 |
| fungi | ahh, yep i guess that was the meat of the problem is that defcore (via tempest) was expecting the nova image subcommands to work, which they presumably won't without glance v2 support in nova | 21:58 |
| johnthetubaguy | long story | 21:58 |
| hogepodge | fungi: +1 yes | 21:58 |
| johnthetubaguy | fungi: the nova image API should always work, otherwise you can't download an images in nova | 21:59 |
| fungi | at least in providers who have actually disabled glance v1 | 21:59 |
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| fungi | so sounds like it's more nuanced in that case | 21:59 |
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| johnthetubaguy | fungi: so if glance v1 is disabled, I don't think you can launch an VM, although its possible thats hypervisor dependent, I can't remember right now | 21:59 |
| fungi | got it. anyway, out of time | 22:00 |
| ttx | #topic Open discussion | 22:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: crossproject)" | 22:00 | |
| ttx | last word ? | 22:00 |
| ttx | "fnord" | 22:00 |
| ttx | #endmeeting | 22:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 22:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Jun 16 22:00:43 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 22:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/crossproject/2015/crossproject.2015-06-16-21.02.html | 22:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/crossproject/2015/crossproject.2015-06-16-21.02.txt | 22:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/crossproject/2015/crossproject.2015-06-16-21.02.log.html | 22:00 |
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| ttx | Thanks everyone | 22:00 |
| nikhil_k | hogepodge: johnthetubaguy : can we discuss on email? | 22:00 |
| * fungi saw the fnord | 22:00 | |
| * fungi hides | 22:00 | |
| hogepodge | nikhil_k: johnthetubaguy: yes, chris@openstack.org | 22:01 |
| fungi | or openstack-dev@lists.openstack.org | 22:01 |
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| johnthetubaguy | nikhil_k: we need a way to upload images in a standard way I guess | 22:01 |
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| johnthetubaguy | fungi: +1 | 22:01 |
| hogepodge | fungi: +1 | 22:01 |
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| Rockyg | fungi: +100 | 22:02 |
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| hogepodge | johnthetubaguy: nikhil_k: fungi want me to start the message thread in dev? | 22:03 |
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| nikhil_k | fungi: sure! | 22:05 |
| nikhil_k | hogepodge: please do start | 22:05 |
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| * nikhil_k & | 22:06 | |
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| fungi | sounds good | 22:11 |
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