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| garyk | hi anyone here for the scheduling meeting? | 15:01 |
|---|---|---|
| garyk | Yathi: you around? | 15:02 |
| Yathi | Hi Gary | 15:02 |
| garyk | hi | 15:02 |
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| garyk | guess we should wait a few more minutes | 15:02 |
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| Yathi | ok | 15:02 |
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| alaski | I'm in two other meetings right now :| so I can't really participate much today | 15:02 |
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| garyk | alaski: ok, np. hopefully next week | 15:03 |
| garyk | do we have enough people to hold the meeting? | 15:04 |
| MikeSpreitzer | I'm here | 15:04 |
| garyk | MikeSpreitzer: hi | 15:04 |
| Yathi | Debo is joining he said.. | 15:04 |
| garyk | ok, lets give the guys a few more minutes. hopefully more will join. | 15:05 |
| garyk | maybe everyone is fighting with the gate | 15:05 |
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| garyk | PhilD: hi, you around? | 15:06 |
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| PhilD | Yep, I'm here | 15:07 |
| PhilD | Sorry I was a fee minutes late | 15:07 |
| PhilD | did I miss somethign | 15:07 |
| garyk | no, we have yet to start | 15:08 |
| debo_os | me too | 15:08 |
| garyk | ok, i guess we have a handful so lets get the show on the road | 15:08 |
| garyk | #startmeeting scheduling | 15:08 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Oct 1 15:08:20 2013 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is garyk. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 15:08 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 15:08 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: scheduling)" | 15:08 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'scheduling' | 15:08 |
| debo_os | agenda? | 15:08 |
| garyk | Not sure if you guys saw the mail I sent. I suggested we talk about maybe discussing an API to propose for summit | 15:08 |
| garyk | And in addition to this the Heat scheduling discussion on the list. | 15:09 |
| MikeSpreitzer | I saw the mail. | 15:09 |
| MikeSpreitzer | If I understand, it's really the same discussion. | 15:09 |
| garyk | So should we start with the API? | 15:09 |
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| garyk | #topic Discuss scheduling API for summit | 15:09 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Discuss scheduling API for summit (Meeting topic: scheduling)" | 15:09 | |
| MikeSpreitzer | I think the API should look a lot like the Heat API — deal with this template | 15:09 |
| debo_os | garyk, mike: +1 for API | 15:09 |
| debo_os | but I am not sure if the scheduler API should look like HEAT .... | 15:09 |
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| MikeSpreitzer | If we want to make a unified decision, we need unified input | 15:10 |
| debo_os | It needs to specify the VRT or eq and policy handles | 15:10 |
| debo_os | and it should be very very simple | 15:10 |
| PhilD | alaski has been pushing a set of changes for the query scheduler - how does that relate to this ? | 15:10 |
| MikeSpreitzer | Oh, something else I need to learn. Can you give a pointer? | 15:10 |
| debo_os | Mike: agree about the unified input ... hence maybe VRT ... .. | 15:10 |
| garyk | debo_os: can you please elaborate on VRT | 15:11 |
| debo_os | but the API could be very simple which is easy to incrementally build and allow for extensions to have complex variants | 15:11 |
| debo_os | VRT = virtual resource topology from Mike's jargon | 15:11 |
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| garyk | Just to recap, last week we spoke about an trying to understand the following (3 things): | 15:12 |
| garyk | 1. a user facing API | 15:12 |
| garyk | 2. understanding which resources need to be tracked | 15:12 |
| debo_os | for example, one needs to pass in groups of resources that need to be scheduled as a single entity for starters - network compute storage ... and pass a list of policy object | 15:12 |
| garyk | 3. backend implementation | 15:12 |
| debo_os | ok ... so we are one 1 | 15:12 |
| garyk | debo_os: yes :) | 15:13 |
| debo_os | I think 2, 3 are imp but we should have a simple 1. with room for complex extensions since this will evolve | 15:13 |
| debo_os | maybe over 1-2 releases ... | 15:13 |
| garyk | debo_os: agreed. | 15:13 |
| MikeSpreitzer | I think we should consider two basic approaches to 1: (a) introduce a new service with its own API or (b) introduce a side-car to the existing Heat engine | 15:13 |
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| garyk | do you want to explain what you are thinking and lets see if we can translate those ideas into api's | 15:14 |
| MikeSpreitzer | ( a ) would be to put up a service that has an API that is similar to Heat's — you can give it a template to instantiate / update, and ask about what happened to it. | 15:14 |
| debo_os | garyk: was that for Mike | 15:14 |
| garyk | personally i think that heat is too high in the application stack to be able to make the scheduling decions | 15:14 |
| MikeSpreitzer | right | 15:15 |
| garyk | debo_os: it was for you | 15:15 |
| MikeSpreitzer | or not | 15:15 |
| debo_os | ok ... so here is my simplification of the threads - I agree with Mike wrt specify all resources upfront for scheduler | 15:15 |
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| MikeSpreitzer | I think of holistic infrastructure scheduling as a lower level thing than software orchestration preparation, | 15:16 |
| debo_os | so an API should have the following objects: list of VRTs, list of policies and list of metadata | 15:16 |
| MikeSpreitzer | but infrastructure orchestration is downstream from holistic scheduling. | 15:16 |
| debo_os | so in the simple variation, VRTs could be instances alone and implemented inside nova | 15:16 |
| debo_os | in a complex variation, this thing could be built on top of nova, neutron, cinder | 15:17 |
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| MikeSpreitzer | Debo: You mean a VRT would mention only VMs and be processed only inside nova? | 15:17 |
| debo_os | in teh simplest implementation to show the API layer works with the policies | 15:17 |
| debo_os | in the complex variant, we can do what you proposed ... specify the topology | 15:18 |
| MikeSpreitzer | Debo: I take that as agreement and elaboration | 15:18 |
| debo_os | instances are the simplest incarnation of yoru topology - single node | 15:18 |
| MikeSpreitzer | oh | 15:18 |
| MikeSpreitzer | now I'm not so sure I understand you | 15:18 |
| debo_os | ok lets look at your topology - nodes are compute, or storage say .... | 15:19 |
| garyk | debo_os: can you please give example so it can maybe help to explain | 15:19 |
| MikeSpreitzer | By "single node" you mean something with VRT syntax that just happens to have only one resource in it? | 15:19 |
| debo_os | ok consider a simple web app | 15:19 |
| debo_os | web layer (rails) = 1 VM connected to mysql (1VM) | 15:19 |
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| debo_os | in the simplest incarnation, you can say give me 2 VMs ... in the full VRT variation, its VM ---> VM | 15:20 |
| debo_os | or rather ext_network--> VM --> VM | 15:20 |
| debo_os | so you are specifying network and compute | 15:20 |
| garyk | (not to mention storage) | 15:20 |
| debo_os | of course :) | 15:21 |
| MikeSpreitzer | of course not, or of course including | 15:21 |
| MikeSpreitzer | ? | 15:21 |
| debo_os | but we can have teh same API and different variations ... | 15:21 |
| MikeSpreitzer | I'm a little lost. Is this a new API for nova, a new syntax to stuff into some existing nova API, or what? | 15:21 |
| debo_os | VRT implemented in nova boils down to asking for only compute nodes | 15:21 |
| debo_os | Mike this is a simple API that can both be done in nova for starters and then done as a service | 15:22 |
| debo_os | without changing the API | 15:22 |
| MikeSpreitzer | Ah, thanks | 15:22 |
| debo_os | and that allows you to plug in your secret sauce | 15:22 |
| debo_os | since everyone will have their smart ways of implementing it | 15:22 |
| MikeSpreitzer | So it's a new API that takes a VRT. Start by implementing it for nova, later implement as a new service or expansion of Heat engine. Right? | 15:22 |
| debo_os | someone will do LP based solving, someone will do nonlinear | 15:22 |
| debo_os | yes :) | 15:22 |
| garyk | MikeSpreitzer: yes, | 15:23 |
| debo_os | wow ... any disagreements? | 15:24 |
| garyk | if we could come to an agreement on what the API would look like then it could be useful to propose that | 15:24 |
| MikeSpreitzer | Nova already has an API for creating a set of VM instances, right? Can we expand the syntax accepted there? | 15:24 |
| garyk | PhilD: what do you think? | 15:24 |
| debo_os | a few of us were trying to get instance_groups as an extension ... I think we could improve that API to have VRTs | 15:24 |
| Yathi | simple variation will still have - list of instances (simple VRT), list of policies, and list of metadata right | 15:24 |
| PhilD | Sorry, production issue came in | 15:24 |
| PhilD | :-( | 15:24 |
| garyk | ok, np | 15:25 |
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| garyk | MikeSpreitzer: the instance groups just have policies at the moment. It should be consumed by the API that we would like to propose (i think) | 15:25 |
| MikeSpreitzer | OK, I'm such a newbie I mostly read documentation. But the doc for the Nova API includes today an extension for placing a set of VMs. | 15:25 |
| debo_os | so the API shoudl have CRUDs for VRTs, policies and metadata? | 15:25 |
| Yathi | the VRTs should specify the request_spec right. . | 15:25 |
| debo_os | yathi: yes | 15:26 |
| garyk | yes | 15:26 |
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| garyk | I think that our goal here is to define the VRT | 15:26 |
| MikeSpreitzer | policies are parts of VRTs, you do not create policies independently | 15:26 |
| garyk | if we could define the API, flows and usecases then we could have a good starting point | 15:26 |
| debo_os | ok ... so then a list of VRTs with embedded policies and metadata? | 15:26 |
| debo_os | would that work | 15:27 |
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| MikeSpreitzer | debo: yes, that's what I was thinking | 15:27 |
| PhilD | Yeah, I think I'd need to see some examples of the VRT to really get a sense of what's being propsoed | 15:27 |
| Yathi | embedded structure sounds good - makes it clean | 15:27 |
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| debo_os | I have one in my mind but Mike might have examples | 15:27 |
| MikeSpreitzer | The wiki page I wrote about policy extension gives much of that | 15:27 |
| debo_os | lets consider ext_network --> VM --> VM to go back to the web app | 15:27 |
| garyk | MikeSpreitzer: please paste the link | 15:27 |
| MikeSpreitzer | I did not go all the way to concrete syntax, but am happy to discuss that here | 15:27 |
| debo_os | where you need 1 VM for apache and 1 VM for mysql | 15:27 |
| PhilD | Worked thruugh Use cases are always a good way exploring this kind of think IMO | 15:27 |
| Yathi | we need to evolve the instance group api extension to consider this new thing | 15:28 |
| garyk | Yathi: agreed | 15:28 |
| garyk | debo_os: please continue with the example (we all seemed to interrupt you) | 15:28 |
| debo_os | so VRT = { nodes, connections, policy, metadata} | 15:28 |
| debo_os | where nodes = list of VM request specs | 15:29 |
| debo_os | connections = list of <node,node> pairs | 15:29 |
| MikeSpreitzer | https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Heat/PolicyExtension | 15:29 |
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| debo_os | tahts my simple use case | 15:30 |
| MikeSpreitzer | The way I see it, we already have syntax (in heat) for set of resources. Need to add only: (1) grouping, (2) policies, (3) way to put policies on relationships | 15:30 |
| garyk | debo_os: would the policies not be coupled with the connections | 15:30 |
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| garyk | that is, some we may want affinity, others anti-affinity etc | 15:30 |
| debo_os | garyk: VRT level policies are here | 15:31 |
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| debo_os | connection level policies need to be in <node,node, policy> | 15:31 |
| debo_os | sorry should have added policy for all the types | 15:31 |
| MikeSpreitzer | exactly. You can attach a policy to a relationship between two group/resource | 15:31 |
| garyk | ok, understood. that sounds logical | 15:31 |
| Yathi | can a VRT be a hierarchy of VRTs ? | 15:31 |
| debo_os | why not ... | 15:31 |
| MikeSpreitzer | No, one VRT has a hierarchy of groups | 15:31 |
| Yathi | then each VRT can have a VRT level policy | 15:31 |
| MikeSpreitzer | VRT is the whole you want processed at once | 15:32 |
| garyk | yup, kind of what we once described as ensembles | 15:32 |
| debo_os | http://docwiki.cisco.com/wiki/Donabe_for_OpenStack .... we have an implementation fo recursive containers on openstack ... hence recursive VRTs | 15:32 |
| MikeSpreitzer | So we are agreed on the idea of recursive containment | 15:32 |
| debo_os | with full GUI ... http://www.openstack.org/summit/portland-2013/session-videos/presentation/interactive-visual-orchestration-with-curvature-and-donabe | 15:32 |
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| MikeSpreitzer | We could use a syntax that is oriented around the group AKA container, primarily a tree of those. | 15:33 |
| debo_os | garyk: +1 lots of things are similar which is good since it means we all need something like this | 15:33 |
| debo_os | mike: why tree and why not graphs | 15:33 |
| garyk | agreed. | 15:33 |
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| MikeSpreitzer | "contain" pretty much implies a tree-like shape to me. | 15:34 |
| debo_os | we can already do graphs with neutron and openstack ... | 15:34 |
| debo_os | sorry nova | 15:34 |
| MikeSpreitzer | It may not seem like it to some of you, but I am actually trying to not go farther than necessary here | 15:34 |
| MikeSpreitzer | I think a tree is sufficient | 15:35 |
| debo_os | mike: while i agree it looks like treee ... i can also think it looks like a graph | 15:35 |
| MikeSpreitzer | Debo: acyclic, right? | 15:35 |
| debo_os | esp for describing virtual clusters for intense workloads | 15:35 |
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| debo_os | if you spec bw constraints you might want to spec a clique with max bw of the edges | 15:35 |
| debo_os | see this is why we need an abstract API | 15:36 |
| MikeSpreitzer | Debo: Is that an answer to my question about whether the graph can have cycles? | 15:36 |
| debo_os | in one implementation you could restrict VRTs to trees | 15:36 |
| debo_os | yes it can | 15:36 |
| debo_os | I mean Neutron would support it ... why not then | 15:36 |
| Yathi | let's start with simple examples :) | 15:37 |
| MikeSpreitzer | Can you give us some use cases that require something more general than a tree? | 15:37 |
| garyk | i really think that we need to start with something simple. | 15:37 |
| debo_os | sure ... in a hadoop env, you might want to define a clque | 15:37 |
| debo_os | yes | 15:37 |
| debo_os | thats why keeping the API to the VRT level is what I would love to see | 15:37 |
| garyk | if we go for complex there is no chance we are going to get it through (it should be extensible to be built on in the fyture) | 15:37 |
| debo_os | since there is no end to making this API look better | 15:38 |
| MikeSpreitzer | The clique is not a problem for a tree. One vertex for the parent, one for each member. | 15:38 |
| debo_os | I am happy if we agree to VRTs with embedded metadata and policy | 15:38 |
| Yathi | okay going back to the API.. what is a POLICY ? | 15:38 |
| MikeSpreitzer | members all children of the same parent | 15:38 |
| Yathi | I have seen flavors of affinity, antiaffinity etc | 15:38 |
| MikeSpreitzer | Yes... | 15:38 |
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| debo_os | policy could be simple named policy handles implemented by whoever is provising u the scheduling | 15:38 |
| Yathi | but do we have a generic idea of what could a policy be like | 15:38 |
| MikeSpreitzer | collocation, anti-collocation | 15:38 |
| debo_os | yeah so these are named objects | 15:39 |
| MikeSpreitzer | Yes, we need to define semantics | 15:39 |
| garyk | proximity and compute resources | 15:39 |
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| MikeSpreitzer | I think some take parameters | 15:39 |
| debo_os | mike: do we need to define semantics in the api right now | 15:39 |
| MikeSpreitzer | for example, anti-collocation to what level of granularity? Rack, machine, … ? | 15:39 |
| debo_os | why dont we agree on the basic high level objects that the API needs | 15:39 |
| garyk | i think that the onus is on us to try and define the API. then provide examples, use cases and flows | 15:39 |
| Yathi | I like the idea of named policy handles.. leaving the implementation details outside | 15:39 |
| Yathi | so each kind of implementation of the "SMART resource placement engine" can use policies differently | 15:40 |
| MikeSpreitzer | A policy "instance" as it appears in a VRT needs only to name the policy, the thing or two to which it applies, and give the values of the relevant parameters. | 15:40 |
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| garyk | the more robust the api the better (i know it sounds like lip service, but we really need a good base here) | 15:40 |
| debo_os | agreed | 15:40 |
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| debo_os | garyk: trying to see if we need anything more than a list of VRTs with policy names (maybe params) | 15:41 |
| debo_os | else the API looks simple from a 30K ft alt | 15:41 |
| MikeSpreitzer | I oulined a proposal in https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Heat/PolicyExtension | 15:41 |
| garyk | it should compile on paper (or in our case interpret on paper) | 15:41 |
| MikeSpreitzer | we need groups, a way to apply a policy to a group, and a way to apply policies to a pair of groups | 15:41 |
| MikeSpreitzer | you could allow resources in places of groups, or not, depending on evolution tactics | 15:42 |
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| debo_os | mike: could we keep teh API simple and just have VRTs with policies | 15:42 |
| debo_os | would that break your use cases | 15:42 |
| debo_os | then it would be really simple and the impl could be as elaborate as you want! | 15:43 |
| MikeSpreitzer | We need a way to apply a policy to a relationship | 15:43 |
| debo_os | apply = implementation, right? | 15:43 |
| MikeSpreitzer | no,... | 15:43 |
| MikeSpreitzer | e.g., "I need 1 Gbps between A and B" | 15:43 |
| debo_os | yes thats a policy for the connection between A, B | 15:43 |
| MikeSpreitzer | or, for firewall, "A should be able to open a TCP connection to port 8080 on B" | 15:44 |
| debo_os | so when you put edges in your VRT, you should have edge policy | 15:44 |
| debo_os | hence edges = <node,node,policy> | 15:44 |
| MikeSpreitzer | right, call them edges or relationships, we need them | 15:44 |
| debo_os | nodes = <node, policy> | 15:44 |
| debo_os | VRT = <nodes, edges, policies> | 15:44 |
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| Yathi | +1 for VRT = <nodes, edges, policies> | 15:45 |
| debo_os | I am just using std graph terminology | 15:45 |
| debo_os | G=(V,E) :) | 15:45 |
| MikeSpreitzer | and we need recursive grouping | 15:45 |
| debo_os | in the simplest case edges =[], and we can do this in Nova | 15:45 |
| debo_os | nodes = VMs only | 15:45 |
| MikeSpreitzer | The three key ideas are: recursive grouping, relationships, and policy applied to group/element or relationship | 15:46 |
| doron | Can an edge include more than 2 nodes? | 15:46 |
| MikeSpreitzer | no | 15:46 |
| debo_os | ok this definition will apply if you consider node = abstract node that represents anotehr VRT | 15:46 |
| MikeSpreitzer | And we need edges to be directed, in some cases (e.g., firewall rule) | 15:46 |
| debo_os | exept that you need metadata | 15:46 |
| Yathi | I was going to ask the same thing can the node be a VRT | 15:46 |
| Yathi | for abstract | 15:46 |
| debo_os | for a node to be treated as a VT you need ingress border nodes for a given VRT | 15:47 |
| doron | so no way to secure 1 GB between A, B and C? | 15:47 |
| debo_os | Doron: you need to do A-B, B-C C-A | 15:47 |
| MikeSpreitzer | yeah... | 15:47 |
| doron | I know, but one of them may fail. | 15:47 |
| doron | which invalidates everything | 15:47 |
| debo_os | if you want shared A,B,C you need a special VRT with policies that implement that | 15:48 |
| garyk | doron: that is why the scheduling should be done at one shot | 15:48 |
| debo_os | and then stick this VRT as a node in the general VRT | 15:48 |
| MikeSpreitzer | Most policies are essentially about a pairwise relationship, so applying such a policy reduces to a bunch of atomic relationships | 15:48 |
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| doron | I'm aware of the atomic need, which sometimes | 15:49 |
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| doron | ends up with a need for more than a pair of nodes. | 15:49 |
| doron | if you take afinity, | 15:49 |
| MikeSpreitzer | applying a dyadic policy to a group means to apply it to every pair within the group | 15:49 |
| debo_os | so I guess we are all saying the same thing with slight changes in jargon | 15:49 |
| debo_os | so a dict of jargon mappings would suffice :) | 15:49 |
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| MikeSpreitzer | Yes, I imagine you could apply a collocation policy to a group of 7 VMs, that means all pairs are collocated | 15:50 |
| debo_os | so any disagrees with the simple API = VRTs = <nodes, edges, policies, metadata>? | 15:50 |
| debo_os | with implementation in plugins | 15:50 |
| MikeSpreitzer | What do you mean by metadata? Is that the parameters of the policies that take parameters? | 15:51 |
| doron | MikeSpreitzer: I may need some more info on your suggestion, but I can look into it later. | 15:51 |
| debo_os | thats undefined | 15:51 |
| debo_os | for now | 15:51 |
| debo_os | its defined by the implementation | 15:51 |
| Yathi | its a placeholder for any random attributes I guess | 15:51 |
| MikeSpreitzer | What does metadata look like? To what is it attached? Why do you want it? | 15:51 |
| Yathi | you can think of it that way | 15:51 |
| garyk | it would be nice if we could get the api on paper so people could see it and think of issues and problems | 15:51 |
| Yathi | in python a simple dictionary ? | 15:51 |
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| MikeSpreitzer | So we can attach a general dictionary to any vertex in the graph? | 15:52 |
| garyk | the metdata will just be key/value pairs | 15:52 |
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| MikeSpreitzer | Is there convergence on this: a VRT is a graph, with policies applied to vertices and edges (which are directed), metadata applied to vertices. A vertex can be a resource or another VRT. | 15:53 |
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| doron | +1 | 15:54 |
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| MikeSpreitzer | And the API will get all the relevant VRTs at once. | 15:54 |
| MikeSpreitzer | So it can work on all of the at once. | 15:55 |
| garyk | we are running out of time. debo_os would it be possible you write up the api and share it with everyone and we can discuss in more detail next week | 15:55 |
| debo_os | sure ... | 15:55 |
| debo_os | would love to rope in mike and yathi too | 15:55 |
| debo_os | but I take teh aI | 15:55 |
| garyk | great. anyone else want to help debo_os write this up | 15:55 |
| MikeSpreitzer | sure. Let's agree on when/how to talk | 15:55 |
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| Yathi | would love to work with Debo on this | 15:56 |
| garyk | cool. i'll jump in too | 15:56 |
| debo_os | awresome | 15:56 |
| Yathi | this is one set of API | 15:56 |
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| MikeSpreitzer | We didn't get to 2 or 3 | 15:56 |
| debo_os | garyk: you would have been there even if you hadn't volunteered :) we would have dragged u | 15:56 |
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| Yathi | what about the API to the other parts of the big vision | 15:56 |
| garyk | :) | 15:56 |
| MikeSpreitzer | Any quick feedback on using host aggregates to convey location structure? | 15:57 |
| garyk | Yathi: once we have the foundations we can try and map it to all of the use cases we can think of | 15:57 |
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| Yathi | ok | 15:58 |
| debo_os | ok so we have agreement wrt API? | 15:58 |
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| garyk | MikeSpreitzer: are you talking about a user configuration of having the aggregate report the 'proximity' | 15:58 |
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| debo_os | only the high level VRTs etc | 15:58 |
| debo_os | ? | 15:58 |
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| MikeSpreitzer | I'm getting to the questions of the other APIs. The scheduler will need location info, so how is that represented/discovered/conveyed? | 15:59 |
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| garyk | MikeSpreitzer: that is certainly something that we need to discuss | 15:59 |
| Yathi | we will not address the how it is discovered yet.. | 15:59 |
| garyk | i think that we are out of time. can we continue offline or next week? | 15:59 |
| MikeSpreitzer | One direction would be to define some key:value pairs to use in host aggregates, use host aggregates to represent the structure of the datacenter | 15:59 |
| Yathi | but represented and conveyed is something to tackle first | 15:59 |
| MikeSpreitzer | I'll be watching the ML | 16:00 |
| garyk | ok. great. | 16:00 |
| garyk | thank guys | 16:00 |
| garyk | #endmeeting | 16:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 16:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Oct 1 16:00:25 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 16:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/scheduling/2013/scheduling.2013-10-01-15.08.html | 16:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/scheduling/2013/scheduling.2013-10-01-15.08.txt | 16:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/scheduling/2013/scheduling.2013-10-01-15.08.log.html | 16:00 |
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| primeministerp | #startmeeting hyper-v | 16:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Oct 1 16:00:41 2013 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is primeministerp. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 16:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 16:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: hyper-v)" | 16:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'hyper_v' | 16:00 |
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| primeministerp | hi everyone | 16:00 |
| primeministerp | we'll wait a 5 min for others to join | 16:01 |
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| primeministerp | pnavarro: hi pedro | 16:02 |
| pnavarro | hi primeministerp ! | 16:02 |
| ociuhandu | hello all | 16:02 |
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| primeministerp | ociuhandu: hi tavi | 16:02 |
| primeministerp | so I don't have much to talk about today | 16:02 |
| alexpilotti | hi everybody! | 16:02 |
| primeministerp | figure we have a quick status update | 16:03 |
| primeministerp | I was hoping to to talk some puppet w/ luis | 16:03 |
| alexpilotti | pnavarro: hi pnavarro, nice to see you! :-) | 16:03 |
| primeministerp | if he joins | 16:03 |
| pnavarro | heyy alexpilotti, I hope you are doing well ! | 16:03 |
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| pnavarro | btw, do you have any video about crowbar - Hyper-v integration? | 16:04 |
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| alexpilotti | pnavarro: doing well here! Am I going to see you in HK? | 16:04 |
| pnavarro | sure alexpilotti ! | 16:04 |
| primeministerp | so | 16:05 |
| alexpilotti | pnavarro: not yet (video) | 16:05 |
| alexpilotti | we're planning to prepare a webcast soon | 16:05 |
| alexpilotti | did you see the Suse announcement BTW? | 16:06 |
| pnavarro | yeah | 16:06 |
| pnavarro | congrats ! | 16:06 |
| alexpilotti | tx! | 16:06 |
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| alexpilotti | so most probably we'll do a webcast using SUSE Cloud | 16:06 |
| alexpilotti | and maybe a separate one directly on Crowbar (deployed from tree) | 16:06 |
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| alexpilotti | zehicle: ping | 16:07 |
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| pnavarro | how is openvswitch windows porting going? | 16:08 |
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| alexpilotti | pnavarro: userspace almost done | 16:08 |
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| alexpilotti | pnavarro: working on the NDIS design now | 16:09 |
| pnavarro | great ! | 16:09 |
| alexpilotti | we needed also to pot the buildsystem | 16:09 |
| alexpilotti | we used cmake for that | 16:09 |
| alexpilotti | and we had to redo ALL the darn POSIX stuff of course :-) | 16:10 |
| alexpilotti | as we wanted to avoid Cygwin ;-) | 16:10 |
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| alexpilotti | we also moved lately to Visual STudio 2013 | 16:10 |
| alexpilotti | as they added some good support to C99 | 16:10 |
| pnavarro | wow wow | 16:10 |
| alexpilotti | which is used quite widely by OVS | 16:10 |
| pnavarro | nice stuff | 16:11 |
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| alexpilotti | lots of work! | 16:11 |
| primeministerp | alexpilotti: thanks for the update | 16:11 |
| alexpilotti | going to publish the tree very soon | 16:11 |
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| schwicht | alexpilotti: (hi btw) will you publish all the files needed to build the service? (project files etc) ? | 16:14 |
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| alexpilotti | schwicht: hi! | 16:15 |
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| alexpilotti | schwicht: what service? (I might have missed some chats at the beginning) | 16:15 |
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| alexpilotti | schwicht: OVS? yes sure | 16:16 |
| schwicht | I do not know any of your OVS implementtation at the moment, I had been guessing you need some sort of windows service to do this | 16:16 |
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| alexpilotti | sure | 16:17 |
| alexpilotti | it's an NDIS kernel driver | 16:17 |
| alexpilotti | and some userspace tools | 16:18 |
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| alexpilotti | at the moment we are wrapping the exes that need to run in daemon state (ovsdb) in a Windows service in a way similar to what we did on OpenStack | 16:19 |
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| schwicht | ok | 16:19 |
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| alexpilotti | we still have to finalise the details, if they'll run as separate services or wrapped | 16:19 |
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| schwicht | I would have expected the management of a service to be somewhat cleaner if not forked ... | 16:20 |
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| alexpilotti | as I was saying we have to finalise the detials | 16:20 |
| pnavarro | it's nice because the interoperability with projects like OpenDaylight will be straight forward | 16:20 |
| schwicht | given that you run binary code anyway | 16:20 |
| alexpilotti | consider also that all the code will become part of the OVS tree | 16:20 |
| schwicht | great news! | 16:21 |
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| alexpilotti | currently we had to fork because | 16:21 |
| alexpilotti | 1) we needed to work on a stable version | 16:21 |
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| schwicht | alexpilotti: is there a release target for that? | 16:21 |
| alexpilotti | 2) we had to redo the build system | 16:21 |
| alexpilotti | but we plan to merge the work on the OVS tree | 16:21 |
| alexpilotti | we're of course in close contact w the project mantainers | 16:22 |
| schwicht | what is your timeline for that? | 16:22 |
| schwicht | within icehouse ? | 16:22 |
| alexpilotti | schwicht: Timing is very tight, but we'd love to have a working demo in HK | 16:22 |
| alexpilotti | and possible a beta by the end of the year | 16:22 |
| alexpilotti | I cannot make any promise yet | 16:23 |
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| schwicht | alexpilotti: I just want to avoid being caught by surpise like I did with your amzing WMIv2 progress ... :-) and be prepared for the 2014 plan | 16:23 |
| alexpilotti | schwicht: we spoke about WMIv2 here for ages! ;-) | 16:24 |
| schwicht | I know .. | 16:24 |
| alexpilotti | you didn't believe that we were going to pull it off so fast? :-) | 16:24 |
| alexpilotti | just kidding of course | 16:24 |
| schwicht | alexpilotti: there was the statement "there is no way we can do that before icehouse" and I put it into our backlog :-) | 16:25 |
| schwicht | anyhow | 16:25 |
| alexpilotti | schwicht: btw one of your guys is helping in reviewing the VHDX snapshot patch | 16:26 |
| schwicht | is your long term vision to just allow for a OVS neutron agent, or is there a use case to keep the current hyperV one? | 16:26 |
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| alexpilotti | would he be able to join us during these meetings or it'd too late for him? | 16:26 |
| alexpilotti | both | 16:26 |
| schwicht | alexpilotti: there is some national holiday going on in China | 16:26 |
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| alexpilotti | ok | 16:26 |
| schwicht | do you have the name? | 16:27 |
| alexpilotti | the plan is to use the vanilla OVS agent | 16:27 |
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| primeministerp | so guys | 16:28 |
| primeministerp | anything else we need to discuss | 16:28 |
| alexpilotti | schwicht: ChangBo Guo | 16:28 |
| primeministerp | i wanted to talk to talk puppet bits w/ luis but looks like he didn't make it | 16:29 |
| primeministerp | ok then | 16:30 |
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| primeministerp | I'll end if no one has additoinal comments | 16:30 |
| primeministerp | #endmeeting | 16:30 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 16:30 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Oct 1 16:30:41 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 16:30 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/hyper_v/2013/hyper_v.2013-10-01-16.00.html | 16:30 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/hyper_v/2013/hyper_v.2013-10-01-16.00.txt | 16:30 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/hyper_v/2013/hyper_v.2013-10-01-16.00.log.html | 16:30 |
| primeministerp | thanks everyone | 16:30 |
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| alexpilotti | sorry, meant GuoHui LIu | 16:31 |
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| ayoung | Red Alert! Put the Kettle On! | 17:59 |
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| ayoung | Stand By to feed the cat! | 17:59 |
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| bknudson | hi | 18:00 |
| henrynash | hi | 18:00 |
| morganfainberg | o/ | 18:00 |
| topol | Hello | 18:00 |
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| dolphm | o/ | 18:00 |
| lbragstad | hey | 18:00 |
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| ayoung | All present and accounted for! | 18:01 |
| dolphm | lol, in taht case- | 18:01 |
| dolphm | #startmeeting keystone | 18:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Oct 1 18:01:54 2013 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is dolphm. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 18:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 18:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'keystone' | 18:01 |
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| dolphm | #topic Re-opening for icehouse! | 18:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Re-opening for icehouse! (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:02 | |
| dolphm | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/48971/ | 18:02 |
| dolphm | everyone should read the commit message here ^ | 18:02 |
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| dolphm | after this change merges, master becomes icehouse | 18:02 |
| bknudson | is there a release of python-keystoneclient, too? | 18:02 |
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| dolphm | bknudson: i've been holding off on v0.3.3 due to a couple little blockers, but i'd like to do a coincidental release | 18:03 |
| topol | cool | 18:03 |
| dolphm | bknudson: there's nothing 'havana' about the client though | 18:03 |
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| bknudson | would be nice to get https://bugs.launchpad.net/python-keystoneclient/+bug/1195924 one in keystoneclient | 18:03 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1195924 in python-keystoneclient "expiration check is using different timezone other than UTC" [Medium,In progress] | 18:03 |
| dolphm | bknudson: targeted to v0.3.3 | 18:03 |
| dolphm | bknudson: i'll make sure we follow up | 18:03 |
| bknudson | dolphm: thanks! | 18:04 |
| jamielennox | morning... | 18:04 |
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| dolphm | as of a few minutes ago, our last RC blocker merged | 18:05 |
| dolphm | #link https://launchpad.net/keystone/+milestone/havana-rc1 | 18:05 |
| dolphm | well done, everyone! | 18:05 |
| morganfainberg | yay! | 18:05 |
| topol | congratulations! | 18:05 |
| dolphm | morganfainberg: thanks for your help kicking the gate over the weekend :) | 18:05 |
| bknudson | the gate was kicking us badly | 18:06 |
| dolphm | bknudson: yeah, transient failures have been *bad* this release, IMO | 18:06 |
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| morganfainberg | we got it done, thats the important part. | 18:06 |
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| dolphm | morganfainberg: ++ | 18:06 |
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| dolphm | also on the thank-you front... | 18:06 |
| dolphm | #topic OpenStack Identity API Documentation Kudos | 18:06 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Identity API Documentation Kudos (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:06 | |
| ayoung | w00t~! | 18:06 |
| dolphm | i think this was on the agenda last week, but i totally glossed over it | 18:06 |
| dolphm | for everyone that has contributed to openstack identity-api, you have an open letter thank you on the mailing list :) | 18:07 |
| dolphm | #link http://www.mail-archive.com/openstack-dev@lists.openstack.org/msg04761.html | 18:07 |
| bknudson | we need this otherwise everybody will keep using v2 | 18:07 |
| dolphm | bknudson: ++ | 18:07 |
| dolphm | docs win users, hands down | 18:07 |
| topol | dolphm:++ | 18:08 |
| ayoung | I started this http://adam.younglogic.com/2013/09/keystone-v3-api-examples/ | 18:08 |
| lbragstad | dolphm: ++ | 18:08 |
| ayoung | and it was pretty much a straight lift off the Identity API docs. | 18:08 |
| bknudson | http://api.openstack.org/api-ref-identity.html | 18:08 |
| dolphm | ayoung: cool! i've gotten several requests for more curl-based examples | 18:08 |
| morganfainberg | ayoung, awsome! | 18:08 |
| dolphm | apparently those were quite popular with v2 | 18:09 |
| ayoung | dolphm, yeah, I've fielded a couple myself. I'd like to get a wider array out there. I'll take shardy's recent ones for trusts ,for example | 18:09 |
| morganfainberg | dolphm, ++ i still use the V2 ones when testing things or explaining it to my coworkers | 18:09 |
| bknudson | I don't know what some of these are... HP-IDM-serviceId Extended Parameter | 18:09 |
| topol | ayoung I like how you updated it for how to handle the big PKI tokens using the variable. very helpful | 18:09 |
| ayoung | topol, thanks | 18:10 |
| topol | dolphm, curl examples are hugely helpful! | 18:10 |
| dolphm | topol: ++ we need to advocate that approach (and probably revise old docs) | 18:10 |
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| bknudson | what happens to those extensions if we deprecate v2? | 18:10 |
| ayoung | if you guys have any others, send them to me and I'll add them to the post, or link to yours. I assume that annegentle will eventually come ask to have them officially documented up | 18:11 |
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| bknudson | one problem with the existing docs is that they reference keystone CLI a lot. | 18:11 |
| bknudson | http://docs.openstack.org/admin-guide-cloud/content/ch-identity-mgmt-config.html | 18:12 |
| bknudson | keystone user-create --name=alice ... | 18:12 |
| bknudson | so do we change those to openstack ? | 18:12 |
| dolphm | bknudson: i'm hoping to advocate for a *strong* shift there in a few openstack-manuals sessions at the summit | 18:12 |
| dolphm | bknudson: yes | 18:12 |
| bknudson | I'm not sure that openstack is even "supported" yet | 18:13 |
| dolphm | bknudson: the goal was to have it in end user's hands around havana's release | 18:13 |
| annegentle | dolphm: bknudson: I'm not sure the openstack CLI belongs in official docs yet | 18:13 |
| bknudson | as in, a promise of backwards-compatibilty | 18:13 |
| bknudson | so we could put curl examples in the docs. | 18:13 |
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| annegentle | that said it'd be great to document one CLI | 18:13 |
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| dolphm | annegentle: i'm hoping the project will be where it needs to be do land in docs :) | 18:13 |
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| ayoung | since we are talking client...did everyone see jamielennox 's post this morning..he's been working on this for a while. \ | 18:14 |
| bknudson | ayoung: link? | 18:15 |
| ayoung | bknudson, ugh...I have it in email...one sec | 18:15 |
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| dolphm | (i'm going to move on in the mean time) | 18:15 |
| dolphm | #topic Havana release notes | 18:15 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Havana release notes (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:15 | |
| dolphm | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/ReleaseNotes/Havana#OpenStack_Identity_.28Keystone.29 | 18:15 |
| dolphm | i took a stab a couple weeks ago at documenting the big stuff from havana | 18:15 |
| morganfainberg | ugh. that got caught by my spam filter. | 18:16 |
| dolphm | i left several blueprints linked taht should probably be documented but that i haven't gotten to, anyone is welcome to replace those with actual notes! | 18:16 |
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| dolphm | i'm not very good at spelling taht today | 18:16 |
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| ayoung | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2013-October/015839.html | 18:17 |
| dolphm | i probably lied or typo'd about something in there, or forgot about your feature completely, so feel free to append, revise, etc | 18:17 |
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| lbragstad | dolphm: I can revise the unified logging link with a description | 18:17 |
| dolphm | lbragstad: thanks! i wasn't sure how to document the deployer-facing impact of that | 18:18 |
| jamielennox | dolphm: token binding is missing - i can do it | 18:18 |
| ayoung | Endpoint filtering has come up a couple times today. I'll take a swing at that one | 18:18 |
| ayoung | #action ayoung add release not for endpoint filtering | 18:19 |
| ayoung | argh... | 18:19 |
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| dolphm | thanks all ^ | 18:20 |
| dolphm | #topic python-keystoneclient | 18:20 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "python-keystoneclient (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:20 | |
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| dolphm | as mentioned earlier, there's a few bugs targeted at v0.3.3- | 18:20 |
| dolphm | #link https://launchpad.net/python-keystoneclient/+milestone/0.3.3 | 18:20 |
| dolphm | i'd appreciate everyone's help to start reviewing those changes so we can get the client released asap | 18:21 |
| dolphm | there's also been some weird bugs, including a transient failure in auth_token causing a few rechecks | 18:21 |
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| dolphm | #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/python-keystoneclient/+bug/1217734 | 18:21 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1217734 in python-keystoneclient "FAIL: setUpClass (tempest.api.compute.servers.test_server_rescue.ServerRescueTestXML Unauthorized) " [High,New] | 18:21 |
| dolphm | added to v0.3.3 so we can at least investigate it ^ | 18:22 |
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| dolphm | but that may be dependent on this- https://bugs.launchpad.net/python-keystoneclient/+bug/1112784 | 18:22 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1112784 in python-keystoneclient "openssl cms error does not raise an exception or log the problem" [High,Triaged] | 18:22 |
| jamielennox | damn, hadn't seen that one yet | 18:22 |
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| dolphm | #topic open discussion | 18:24 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:24 | |
| dolphm | as we rapidly head towards icehouse, there's also a bunch of bp implementations already in review (linked in meeting agenda) | 18:24 |
| gyee | dolphm, can you add this one to keystoneclient 0.3.3 if possible? https://review.openstack.org/#/c/47661/ | 18:24 |
| dolphm | https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/KeystoneMeeting | 18:24 |
| dolphm | those will need attention | 18:24 |
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| dolphm | i'll also be taking a pass to unblock a bunch of -2'd reviews from feature freeze, as soon as we're open for icehouse | 18:25 |
| jamielennox | gyee: i still don't think that is the right approach | 18:25 |
| ayoung | dolphm, I can take https://bugs.launchpad.net/python-keystoneclient/+bug/1112784 | 18:25 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1112784 in python-keystoneclient "openssl cms error does not raise an exception or log the problem" [High,Triaged] | 18:25 |
| jamielennox | i'm not sure how to do it better without a fairly significant refactor, but it seems wrong to need another config option for that | 18:26 |
| gyee | jamielennox, what refactoring you have in mind? | 18:27 |
| jamielennox | gyee: many things, but mainly just don't request a token until you need a token | 18:27 |
| ayoung | gyee, shouldn't admin_token be an additional auth method under keystone/auth/plugins and so it can be removed from the list? | 18:27 |
| jamielennox | unfortunately we need a token for fetching revocation lists so both PKI and UUID tokens still require an admin token | 18:27 |
| gyee | I am just making admin_token request optional | 18:28 |
| ayoung | jamielennox, well, no | 18:28 |
| ayoung | jamielennox, that can be done with RBAC, too | 18:28 |
| ayoung | and probably should be done with RBAC | 18:28 |
| ayoung | the token needs to grant admin privs, but that is different from an ADMIN_TOKEN config option | 18:29 |
| gyee | its not even an admin token per say | 18:29 |
| jamielennox | ayoung: but nobody is doing it with RBAC because that's not how we tell people to set it up | 18:29 |
| ayoung | gyee, why is the current option of removing it from the config file not sufficient? | 18:29 |
| dolphm | gyee: (i don't really want to block a point release on a new feature unless it's actually causing a blocker for another project) | 18:29 |
| gyee | token which have the roles to validate another token | 18:29 |
| gyee | dolphm, 0.3.4 then? | 18:30 |
| ayoung | gyee, I think we can do what you are describing there within the existing mechanisms. | 18:30 |
| dolphm | gyee: features are done when they're done :) | 18:30 |
| dolphm | gyee: if it was merged, i'd be happy to do a release to get it out there | 18:30 |
| gyee | dolphm, k, that's fine | 18:30 |
| ayoung | jamielennox, so education of the user base is a big topic. So far, we've identified that devstack is the first step....maybe we should BP up a bettter RBAC setup for that. Does devstack use the cloud policy file yet? | 18:31 |
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| dolphm | this one is essentially a wishlist item that's a blocker for heat https://review.openstack.org/#/c/48462/ | 18:31 |
| gyee | ayoung, how do I use existing mechanism to skip admin token? | 18:31 |
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| jamielennox | ayoung: i'm pretty sure they have admin service users | 18:31 |
| jamielennox | as devstack is all v2 | 18:32 |
| topol | gyee++ I would love to know that as well. is that in an ayoung blog somewhere? | 18:32 |
| gyee | technically, token validation token | 18:32 |
| dolphm | gyee: using a known token and endpoint? | 18:32 |
| jamielennox | gyee: you can't, i think he meant to request a non-admin token you just change user/pass | 18:32 |
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| ayoung | gyee, you need to have a Role, and that role needs to be used in the policy file in keystone. | 18:32 |
| ayoung | the Nova user, instead of using an admin token, can use a regular token | 18:32 |
| gyee | dolphm, that's my alternative, essentially putting a dummy token in there | 18:33 |
| dolphm | gyee: dummy? | 18:33 |
| gyee | yes | 18:33 |
| dolphm | gyee: which would raise 401 from keystone? | 18:33 |
| gyee | we use SSL certificate auth instead of admin token | 18:33 |
| jamielennox | gyee: given that you need a validation token for revocation lists how is it going to work | 18:33 |
| jamielennox | ah, right | 18:34 |
| gyee | jamielennox, we use 2 way SSL | 18:34 |
| dolphm | gyee: why not just configure admin_token with a artificially long-lived token? | 18:34 |
| gyee | Apache then translate it into a service user context | 18:34 |
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| gyee | dolphm, our security call for service account rotation | 18:34 |
| jamielennox | gyee: that's cool, i would love to get that into keystone proper | 18:34 |
| gyee | we need to rotate the certs | 18:35 |
| ayoung | gyee, so, really you want a way to tell auth_token to use SSL client cert. Now, that I can get get behind | 18:35 |
| gyee | no hardcode passwords | 18:35 |
| gyee | ayoung,, absolutely | 18:35 |
| gyee | we are not allowed to have passwords in conf files | 18:35 |
| ayoung | gyee, but...why not Client cert to get admin token, and then use token binding? | 18:35 |
| dolphm | gyee: right, i mean underneath ssl | 18:35 |
| ayoung | :) | 18:35 |
| jamielennox | gyee: so is storing some fake data in AUTH_TOKEN a problem or just an inconvenience? | 18:36 |
| gyee | ayoung, that's precisely what we are doing | 18:36 |
| gyee | trade in ssl cert for a token | 18:36 |
| gyee | at the server side | 18:36 |
| gyee | I just need a way to turn off admin_token request at the middleware | 18:36 |
| ayoung | gyee OK, I see what you are getting at... | 18:36 |
| topol | gyee, ayoung, what you are describing sounds like an interesting pattern. Is this a to be statement to be written up in a blueprint? | 18:37 |
| ayoung | gyee, but your code doesn't look right | 18:37 |
| ayoung | topol, well, bascially, this is the problem that jamielennox was addressing in the client work | 18:37 |
| ayoung | we need to make a client library that supports multiple auth methods | 18:38 |
| gyee | ayoung, ++ | 18:38 |
| ayoung | and we need to make auth_token, and the CLIs, both use that library | 18:38 |
| jamielennox | ayoung: ++++++++++++ | 18:38 |
| gyee | but a the meantime, I need something to turn off admin token request | 18:38 |
| nachi1 | ayoungL +1 | 18:38 |
| topol | ayoung, is there a blueprint for jamielennox work on this? | 18:38 |
| gyee | we can remote that change once we have plugin support in keystoneclient | 18:38 |
| ayoung | topol, multiple | 18:38 |
| jamielennox | topol: there has been a few | 18:38 |
| gyee | baby steps :) | 18:39 |
| ayoung | gyee, why do you only support password? | 18:39 |
| topol | jamielennox can you send me some pointers to the blueprints? | 18:39 |
| jamielennox | the post that was mentioned earlier is describing the APIClient stuff - and at the moment i'm making everything hinge upon that | 18:39 |
| ayoung | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2013-October/015839.html | 18:39 |
| ayoung | to link it yet again | 18:40 |
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| jamielennox | topol: most aren't overly fleshed out, just areas or work at the moment: | 18:40 |
| gyee | ayoung, what do you mean we only support password? | 18:40 |
| jamielennox | topol: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/python-keystoneclient/+spec/consolidate-cli-auth | 18:41 |
| ayoung | https://blueprints.launchpad.net/keystone/+spec/kerberos-authentication | 18:41 |
| topol | thanks | 18:41 |
| jamielennox | https://blueprints.launchpad.net/python-keystoneclient/+spec/auth-plugins | 18:41 |
| ayoung | gyee, either the method is password or you raise an exception | 18:41 |
| gyee | ayoung, just for now, we can expand it | 18:41 |
| jamielennox | https://blueprints.launchpad.net/python-keystoneclient/+spec/keystoneclient-auth-token | 18:41 |
| ayoung | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/47661/3/keystoneclient/middleware/auth_token.py line 734 | 18:41 |
| gyee | see the code comment | 18:41 |
| gyee | I am just paving a way for pluggable auth | 18:41 |
| gyee | password is just a start | 18:42 |
| ayoung | gyee, that is useless. I don't see how it serves your need, as you will still need custom code to fetch a cert. Make the code support the X509 use case and It will make a lot more sense. | 18:42 |
| jamielennox | but pretty much every blueprint i've filed under keystoneclient (like version discovery) came from this problem | 18:42 |
| gyee | code already support x.509 | 18:42 |
| gyee | you can configure SSL today | 18:42 |
| jamielennox | client side SSL in auth_token? | 18:43 |
| bknudson | gyee: you can tell auth_token to use a client cert? | 18:43 |
| ayoung | gyee, I can't see that from the patch you submitted | 18:43 |
| gyee | jamielennox, yes | 18:43 |
| jamielennox | gyee: huh, didn't know that | 18:43 |
| gyee | bknudson, yes | 18:43 |
| bknudson | ok, interesting | 18:43 |
| gyee | requests lib supports 2-way ssl | 18:43 |
| ayoung | gyee, it sounds like, at a minimum, you need "none" or "no password" | 18:43 |
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| gyee | ayoung, if it makes sure a happier man, I can change it to a boolean, need_admin_token or something | 18:44 |
| gyee | s/sure/you/ | 18:44 |
| ayoung | gyee, with your patch, what would I set admin_token_auth_method to? | 18:44 |
| ayoung | None? Ah..oh yuck | 18:44 |
| gyee | ayoung, set it to an empty string to skip admin token request | 18:45 |
| ayoung | ok...I see what you are doing...um...don't like the illusion of plugability there | 18:45 |
| morganfainberg | boolean enable_auth_token | 18:45 |
| gyee | I can change it to a boolean | 18:45 |
| ayoung | gyee, but...that code never requests a token, then, right? | 18:45 |
| bknudson | make it pluggable | 18:45 |
| morganfainberg | erm enable_admin_token | 18:45 |
| topol | "illusion of pluggability" :-) nice | 18:45 |
| morganfainberg | make it pluggable in the future? | 18:45 |
| gyee | that's what I was aiming for | 18:46 |
| gyee | pluggable in the future | 18:46 |
| jamielennox | gyee: so my main concern is having to support the config option over time, not that it is a hack - most of auth_token is a hack | 18:46 |
| morganfainberg | depends on the timeline(s) we are talking about if it should be boolean or string | 18:46 |
| gyee | at least the illusion of pluggable :) | 18:46 |
| bknudson | but a plugin would be a module reference | 18:46 |
| ayoung | gyee, what you should be saying is user REOMTE_USER to fetc h an admin token | 18:46 |
| jamielennox | if i can get keystoneclient into auth_token i'm not sure how to deal with the config option | 18:46 |
| morganfainberg | bknudson, aye, | 18:46 |
| bknudson | keystoneclient.auth_token.password | 18:46 |
| ayoung | I don't think that what you have there is supported without custom plugins on the Keystone side, is it? | 18:46 |
| gyee | ayoung, no need to even fetch admin_token, its all done at the server side | 18:47 |
| dolphm | jamielennox: ++ | 18:47 |
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| gyee | trade in client cert for admin token | 18:47 |
| ayoung | gyee, I suspect you have custom code on the server side | 18:47 |
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| gyee | ayoung, yes, custom middleware | 18:47 |
| ayoung | we don't allow admin calls without a token | 18:47 |
| ayoung | gyee, BUSTED! | 18:47 |
| gyee | guilty | 18:48 |
| ayoung | gyee, um, yeah, I'm going to have to disagree with you there Bob | 18:48 |
| dolphm | (havana->icehouse version bump is 6th in the gate! only about an hour left until it fails and we have to try again.) | 18:48 |
| gyee | ayoung, what's the problem? | 18:48 |
| ayoung | gyee, OTOH, I would love to see that custom middleware submitted as a contrib | 18:48 |
| morganfainberg | dolphm, so optimistic | 18:48 |
| gyee | ayoung, yes | 18:48 |
| ayoung | gyee, you submitted code that only you can use | 18:48 |
| dolphm | morganfainberg: hey, we have experience at this | 18:48 |
| morganfainberg | dolphm, i didn't say unrealistic did i? :P | 18:49 |
| dolphm | morganfainberg: p.s. i also wrote a tool called watch-review lol | 18:49 |
| * topol loving the office space reference | 18:49 | |
| ayoung | gyee, OTOH, I am headed in the same direction...I would love it if Keystone didn't need a token for operations, but instead used standard Web Auth methods for things that currently can be done unscoped...so | 18:49 |
| ayoung | https://github.com/admiyo/keystone/commit/05d68559b548c6722a1d928e13919fe74ba5e13f | 18:50 |
| topol | ayoung, ++ is there time at the summit to discuss? | 18:50 |
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| gyee | ayoung, sure, filter is pretty easy, just map the client ssl cert to a service admin account | 18:50 |
| ayoung | that patch fetches a token based on basic-auth and stores it in a cookie. We want the same kind of thing from SSL Client cert auth | 18:50 |
| jamielennox | gyee: so your middleware is doing what: taking client cert serial or hash and converting to a token header? | 18:50 |
| gyee | jamielennox, precisely | 18:51 |
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| jamielennox | hacky, but a nice one | 18:51 |
| ayoung | jamielennox, not hacky...it is how would should have done Keystone from the start. Using the standards as opposed to inventing our own. Sportsmanlike | 18:51 |
| gyee | hey, works for me | 18:52 |
| jamielennox | mmm, it's hacky having it used as a token | 18:52 |
| topol | ayoung++!!! | 18:52 |
| jamielennox | but a nice idea | 18:52 |
| bknudson | the cert could be the token | 18:52 |
| gyee | bknudson, yes | 18:52 |
| jamielennox | bknudson: yes, and on the list for Icehouse was a client cert auth method | 18:53 |
| ayoung | jamielennox, not really. The problem is the term toekn. A token is really a general purpose term. Our tokens are "remote references to authentication objects" | 18:53 |
| gyee | bknudson, that how CERN is doing with their federation right? | 18:53 |
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| gyee | trade in SSL cert for token | 18:53 |
| ayoung | and from that perspective, it makes a lot of sense. | 18:53 |
| jamielennox | i'm just wondering if it's possible to ditch the token completely with client certs and i dont think so | 18:53 |
| ayoung | gyee, and bind the token to the SSL cert | 18:53 |
| gyee | ayoung, sure | 18:53 |
| ayoung | jamielennox, no, they serve different purposes. | 18:54 |
| ayoung | Client cert is "who are you" token is "what are you doing in my living room?" | 18:54 |
| gyee | ayoung, so can we get that patch going now? | 18:54 |
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| jamielennox | ayoung: got that, but if you use client cert serial number, you're essentially using a UUID token | 18:55 |
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| bknudson | auth_token could send client cert to keystone token and get back roles | 18:55 |
| bknudson | keystone token verify | 18:55 |
| gyee | bknudson, yes, it would be one of the REMOTE_USER auth | 18:56 |
| bknudson | like a UUID token | 18:56 |
| jamielennox | bknudson: you can't forward a client cert, but you can forward the details like a UUID token | 18:56 |
| gyee | REMOTE_USER allows you to map anything into a token | 18:56 |
| gyee | we support that today | 18:56 |
| bknudson | jamielennox: right, should have said client cert serial or DN or whatever. | 18:56 |
| ayoung | gyee, and that is what your patch should specify | 18:56 |
| Haneef | -Before going with client cert, we need to come up with supported platforms. Client cert header names are not same across all servers. Also it will vary depending on wheter u are offloading ssl in loadbalancer or it is configured as ssl brdige? | 18:57 |
| jamielennox | gyee: my problem is that we are going to want to deprecate this config option relatively quickly | 18:57 |
| ayoung | admin_token_auth_methods is in ['password','external'] | 18:57 |
| gyee | ayoung, sure, I am down with that | 18:57 |
| gyee | wait, external? | 18:58 |
| jamielennox | ayoung: ? | 18:58 |
| ayoung | gyee, the thing is, that could be used with the existing auth, doesn't need custom middleware. It will still cost you an additional round-trip unless you cache the returned token | 18:58 |
| gyee | jamielennox, we are constantly refactoring anyway :) | 18:58 |
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| jamielennox | gyee: sure, but a config option has to be supported long term | 18:58 |
| ayoung | gyee, I think that was what it was called inteh keystone/auth/controller.py | 18:58 |
| gyee | didn't dolphm say disposable code? :) | 18:58 |
| jamielennox | ayoung: external is not a thing in keystoneclient | 18:59 |
| ayoung | gyee, https://github.com/openstack/keystone/blob/master/keystone/auth/controllers.py#L334 | 18:59 |
| dolphm | gyee: disposable implementations still need to maintain compatibility :) | 18:59 |
| dolphm | #endmeeting | 18:59 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 18:59 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Oct 1 18:59:34 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 18:59 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2013/keystone.2013-10-01-18.01.html | 18:59 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2013/keystone.2013-10-01-18.01.txt | 18:59 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2013/keystone.2013-10-01-18.01.log.html | 18:59 |
| jamielennox | dolphm: nice exit | 18:59 |
| dolphm | lol | 18:59 |
| jeblair | hello infra folks | 19:00 |
| anteaya | o/ | 19:00 |
| ttx | o/ | 19:00 |
| zaro | o/ | 19:00 |
| pleia2 | o/ | 19:00 |
| fungi | yo | 19:00 |
| SergeyLukjanov | o/ | 19:00 |
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| jeblair | clarkb, fungi, mordred: ping | 19:00 |
| fungi | still here, as noted above ;) | 19:01 |
| jeblair | :) | 19:01 |
| jeblair | #startmeeting infra | 19:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Oct 1 19:01:16 2013 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is jeblair. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 19:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 19:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'infra' | 19:01 |
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| jeblair | agenda: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/InfraTeamMeeting | 19:01 |
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| jeblair | last meeting: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2013/infra.2013-09-24-19.00.html | 19:01 |
| jeblair | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/InfraTeamMeeting | 19:01 |
| jeblair | #link http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2013/infra.2013-09-24-19.00.html | 19:01 |
| jeblair | #topic actions from last meeting | 19:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "actions from last meeting (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:02 | |
| jeblair | #action jeblair move tarballs.o.o and include 50gb space for heat/trove images | 19:02 |
| jeblair | i did not do that | 19:02 |
| jeblair | as it turns out, friday was very busy. | 19:02 |
| jeblair | i'll try again later when things are a bit calmer. | 19:02 |
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| jeblair | the other action item we can handle in a different topic | 19:03 |
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| jeblair | #topic Trove testing (mordred, hub_cap) | 19:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Trove testing (mordred, hub_cap) (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:04 | |
| jeblair | mordred: you were going to understand and explain the mysterious caching issue with the heat/trove test plan | 19:04 |
| hub_cap | heyo | 19:04 |
| jeblair | mordred: what's the latest there? and what is trove testing blocked on? | 19:04 |
| mordred | o/ | 19:04 |
| mordred | sorry I'm late | 19:04 |
| mordred | jeblair: I have not achieved my task. I still need to understand and explain the mysterious caching issue | 19:05 |
| mordred | lifeless: around? | 19:05 |
| hub_cap | jeblair: i have achieved my task of waiting | 19:05 |
| pleia2 | mordred: he's running the tripleo meeting | 19:05 |
| mordred | ah. wow. what a poorly timed meeting overlap | 19:06 |
| mordred | :) | 19:06 |
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| mordred | jeblair: I will raise sorting that on my tdl | 19:06 |
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| lifeless | mordred: in the tripleo meeting | 19:06 |
| fungi | clearly a popular meeting time | 19:07 |
| jeblair | mordred: is it true that we can't or should not proceed with anything in https://etherpad.openstack.org/testing-heat-trove-with-dib until you understand this issue? | 19:07 |
| lifeless | mordred: it's not mysterious, we want to cache further along than just 'we downloaded stuff' | 19:07 |
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| mordred | lifeless: the details are a thing we want to dig more in to - because dib is not going to make use of pre-downloaded base images in the way that we would pre-download them right now | 19:08 |
| mordred | lifeless: I believe there is a dib task identified to be able to be pointed at a locally downloaded pre-cached base image | 19:09 |
| mordred | jeblair: if we proceed without the sorting thing, each build job will download a base image from canonical and redhat directly | 19:10 |
| mordred | without sorting the caching thing | 19:10 |
| lifeless | depending on what you mean we either already have that | 19:10 |
| lifeless | or there is no task identified. | 19:10 |
| mordred | you did the work we talked about in Seattle already? | 19:10 |
| lifeless | there may be confusion | 19:11 |
| mordred | great. we will convene to sort it out | 19:11 |
| jeblair | mordred: when? | 19:11 |
| mordred | when we can do it with higherbandwidth | 19:11 |
| mordred | jeblair: how about right after tripleo and infra stop meeting | 19:11 |
| mordred | lifeless: ? | 19:11 |
| * mordred assumes silence to be assent | 19:12 | |
| lifeless | mordred: I have the OSRB then | 19:12 |
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| lifeless | mordred: but today, certainly. | 19:12 |
| mordred | ok | 19:12 |
| mordred | jeblair: we will sort that out today | 19:12 |
| jeblair | #action mordred understand and explain the mysterious caching issue with the heat/trove test plan | 19:12 |
| jeblair | hub_cap: any further thoughts? | 19:13 |
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| jeblair | #topic Tripleo testing (mordred, clarkb, lifeless) | 19:14 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Tripleo testing (mordred, clarkb, lifeless) (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:14 | |
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| jeblair | mordred, lifeless: any progress on plan C? | 19:14 |
| jeblair | or otherwise anything we should chat about? | 19:15 |
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| mordred | jeblair: nothing really to chat about - plans are underway to get plan C moving | 19:15 |
| lifeless | jeblair: your thoughts on the tripleo mail I sent yesterday would be appreciated | 19:16 |
| lifeless | jeblair: from a 'implications to the openstack project' perspective | 19:16 |
| mordred | jeblair: also, lifeless sent an email yesterday to openstack-dev outlining a plan around plan c related things | 19:16 |
| hub_cap | jeblair: nosir | 19:16 |
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| lifeless | jeblair: tl;dr we're proposing a group of people running a production cloud deployed tripleo style, per commit, with atc's getting credentials | 19:16 |
| lifeless | jeblair: and the use of kanban to manage wip and changes to that environment | 19:17 |
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| lifeless | jeblair: (the tie-in to plan C is that this is common infrastructure to the proposed cloud-test setup | 19:17 |
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| fungi | having a non-proprietary kanban would be high up the list of preferences, i think | 19:20 |
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| * fungi is not a huge fan of trello for this, but i guess it's a stopgap | 19:21 | |
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| fungi | perhaps that's something which would eventually meld well with storyboard | 19:22 |
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| mordred | yah. lifeless and I had a chat about that where I expressed concerns about trello - he said (and says at the bottom of the email in the footnote) the idea with the kanban is to experiment to see if it's worth pursing in an infra way and with infra | 19:22 |
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| mordred | before asking infra to provide a thing which may actually not be something that's helpful | 19:22 |
| jeblair_ | we should be careful with that | 19:22 |
| mordred | and yes, I agree -might give good feedback on storyboard features | 19:23 |
| mordred | jeblair_: I could not possibly agree more | 19:23 |
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| jeblair_ | we've asked projects to stop using trello and similar services before because tool proliferation is not helpful to a unified project | 19:23 |
| jeblair_ | but experimentation is important | 19:23 |
| jeblair_ | we're probably on the same page. just reiterating. | 19:23 |
| mordred | ++ | 19:23 |
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| fungi | slippery slope | 19:24 |
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| SergeyLukjanov | unified project template w/ all tools like kanbans and etc. is a dream for all new projects | 19:24 |
| mordred | I think it's clear that trello is a non-starter long term | 19:24 |
| SergeyLukjanov | and not for only new | 19:24 |
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| lifeless | so, for the record | 19:25 |
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| lifeless | the existing tools in the openstack suite are a poor fit for visualising wip and operational status | 19:25 |
| lifeless | we don't /like/ trello | 19:25 |
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| lifeless | and will be delighted, if the experiment concludes with 'yes, kanban solves the issues we're trying to solve' | 19:26 |
| lifeless | to work closely with infra to get an openstack-suitable kanban in place. | 19:26 |
| fungi | no argument from me, i understand it's a pragmatic choice for the moment | 19:26 |
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| jeblair | so to bring this back on topic; how does this interact with the tripleo test plan? | 19:27 |
| jeblair | lifeless, mordred: ? | 19:27 |
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| lifeless | the tripleo test plan has a big handwave of 'tripleo will provide a cloud' | 19:27 |
| mordred | jeblair: the cloud they are planing to spin up is part of the first steps of plan c | 19:27 |
| lifeless | this is an enabler for that | 19:27 |
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| lifeless | we don't need anything from infra at this point, but wanted you to be aware of how we're structuring things | 19:27 |
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| jeblair | lifeless: makes sense. i like the general direction of open ops. | 19:29 |
| jeblair | anything else on this topic? | 19:30 |
| lifeless | jeblair: and *if* you have concerns about e.g. reliability of the test results etc from the open ops setup, we'd rather know sooner than later | 19:30 |
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| lifeless | jeblair: the other aspect is once we're a bit more mature | 19:30 |
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| lifeless | we'll have an OpenStack cloud infra can use if they want. | 19:30 |
| lifeless | We will let you know when it's reliable enough that you wouldn't be crazy to put stuff in it. | 19:30 |
| jeblair | lifeless: that would be great. we're, uh, happy to help drive load. :) | 19:31 |
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| mordred | we are a lean-mean-load-generating-machine | 19:32 |
| fungi | more mean than lean | 19:33 |
| jeblair | emphasis on mean | 19:33 |
| fungi | heh | 19:33 |
| jeblair | #topic Savanna migration from stackforge to openstack org | 19:33 |
| * mordred is getting pudgy | 19:33 | |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Savanna migration from stackforge to openstack org (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:33 | |
| jeblair | SergeyLukjanov: hi there | 19:33 |
| SergeyLukjanov | hi | 19:33 |
| SergeyLukjanov | I've prepared https://review.openstack.org/#/c/48491/ | 19:33 |
| jeblair | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/48491/ | 19:33 |
| * ttx breaks for 13 min | 19:34 | |
| jeblair | so we just need to schedule a downtime for the gerrit renaming | 19:34 |
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| * mordred is in north carolina this weekend at a wedding | 19:35 | |
| fungi | my event coordinator says i'm free all weekend | 19:35 |
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| jeblair | i think i should be available sat/sun morning | 19:36 |
| mordred | I _may_ be able to help on Saturday, but don't really know specific schedule. I'll certainly help if I'm not off being weddinged | 19:36 |
| SergeyLukjanov | it'll be good for us (savanna team) to do it this weekend | 19:36 |
| jeblair | we're in the middle of the rc window... | 19:36 |
| jeblair | but based on last weekends load, i think we can handle having a bit of weekend downtime | 19:36 |
| mordred | yah. most of last weekend was me | 19:37 |
| mordred | trying to get wheels working | 19:37 |
| anteaya | and versioning | 19:37 |
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| SergeyLukjanov | could I help with smth from my side? | 19:38 |
| fungi | SergeyLukjanov: your change wraps puppet-savanna in with the rest of the work... is that part of the savanna project or part of the openstack-puppet group's work on stackforge? | 19:38 |
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| SergeyLukjanov | fungi, we're working on puppet manifests for savanna and I hope that we'll publish them soon | 19:39 |
| jeblair | so how about saturday 'morning'? oct 5 1600 utc? | 19:39 |
| * mordred believes puppet-savanna should stay in stackforge - we don't have any precedence in the project for chef or puppet things being considered core project code | 19:39 | |
| fungi | jeblair: wfm | 19:39 |
| SergeyLukjanov | it's not a part of openstack-puppet group | 19:39 |
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| SergeyLukjanov | mordred, good point, I'll move it back | 19:39 |
| mordred | SergeyLukjanov: thanks! (obviously, you can keep savanna-core having core on it if that makes sense for you guys) | 19:40 |
| SergeyLukjanov | jeblair, wfm too | 19:40 |
| jeblair | SergeyLukjanov: sounds good. i think puppet or chef deliverables would be a scope expansion for the tc to consider | 19:40 |
| jeblair | SergeyLukjanov: cool, it'll be good to have you around to help make sure everything works after the move | 19:40 |
| lifeless | wait, puppet or chef? | 19:40 |
| SergeyLukjanov | jeblair, it's just puppet manifests for savanna installation | 19:41 |
| lifeless | SergeyLukjanov: I thought savanna used disk-image-builder? | 19:41 |
| mordred | yah. but we've deliberately kept those non-openstack so far | 19:41 |
| mordred | lifeless: I believe he means to deploy savanna, not for use by savanna | 19:41 |
| lifeless | mordred: that would be heat then | 19:41 |
| SergeyLukjanov | lifeless, yep | 19:42 |
| SergeyLukjanov | we're using dib to build images used by savanna | 19:42 |
| fungi | yeah, puppet-savanna seems like something which could also benefit from closer work with the stackforge/puppet-.* devs long term, for added ecosystem consistency | 19:42 |
| SergeyLukjanov | and puppet to install savanna | 19:42 |
| mordred | fungi: ++ | 19:42 |
| mordred | SergeyLukjanov: makes sense to me | 19:42 |
| SergeyLukjanov | I think it's ok to keep puppet-savanna in stackforge for now | 19:42 |
| SergeyLukjanov | bye it's empty now | 19:43 |
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| SergeyLukjanov | btw* | 19:43 |
| mordred | :) | 19:43 |
| fungi | heh | 19:43 |
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| SergeyLukjanov | we already have worked manifest but it depends on some mirantis internal stuff | 19:43 |
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| jeblair | #action jeblair announce gerrit downtime oct 5 1600 utc for savanna rename | 19:44 |
| SergeyLukjanov | I have a question about docs | 19:44 |
| jeblair | fungi, mordred: can you think of any other maint we should do during then? | 19:44 |
| SergeyLukjanov | is it ok to publish them to docs.o.o? | 19:44 |
| mordred | annegentle_ loves docs questions | 19:44 |
| annegentle_ | I do!!! | 19:44 |
| mordred | I believe so - I think we've been publishing incubated tocs to doc.o.o so far yeah? | 19:44 |
| fungi | jeblair: none springs to mind. maybe things will come up between now and then we can glom onto it | 19:44 |
| jeblair | mordred: i think so | 19:44 |
| mordred | jeblair: unless we want to move melange to stackforge, no | 19:45 |
| SergeyLukjanov | (I've added it due to the marconi config) | 19:45 |
| mordred | (and delete openstack-dev/openstack-qa which is a dead fish) | 19:45 |
| annegentle_ | SergeyLukjanov: In the past we've published to docs.o.org/incubation but it's kind of a case-by-case | 19:45 |
| mordred | but I don't care about either really | 19:45 |
| jeblair | annegentle_: for developer docs too? | 19:46 |
| fungi | mordred: we can probably do those two additional things without needing to announce them, if we feel like it | 19:46 |
| jeblair | annegentle_: (eg, project docs rather than manuals) | 19:46 |
| annegentle_ | jeblair: nah we haven't had it come up for project docs/ dev docs | 19:46 |
| SergeyLukjanov | I mean dev docs | 19:47 |
| annegentle_ | jeblair: it was for API specs, user info, deployer info, and we've grown SO much since, I say we should probably come up with a set of guidelines | 19:47 |
| jeblair | annegentle_: i love guidelines. ESPECIALLY published guidelines. :) | 19:47 |
| annegentle_ | jeblair: I'm not super comfortable with incubated projects getting an openstack.org domain, if I'm honest | 19:47 |
| annegentle_ | jeblair: it feels like getting to use the brand | 19:47 |
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| SergeyLukjanov | review.o.o and git.o.o are the same way for using brand) | 19:48 |
| jeblair | annegentle_: i know, though they are projects that have been accepted into a program by the tc, which is why we have been putting them in the openstack github org | 19:48 |
| fungi | on the other hand it's unfortunate if we don't have any way to publish their documentation during incubation, other than to tell them to use rtfd or something | 19:48 |
| annegentle_ | jeblair: oh well if that's the case, they're not incubating | 19:49 |
| annegentle_ | jeblair: they're integrated | 19:49 |
| annegentle_ | jeblair: sorry need more context :) | 19:49 |
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| annegentle_ | fungi: I'm fine with rtfd | 19:49 |
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| mordred | annegentle_: nope. ingerated means they're part of the release - incubated means they get to be a thing we as a project are actually working on | 19:49 |
| mordred | but... it's possible ... | 19:49 |
| mordred | that the infra meeting is the wrong place to dig in to integrated/incubated branding semantics | 19:49 |
| annegentle_ | mordred: I know that, what's SergeyLukjanov's project that we're talking about? | 19:50 |
| mordred | (other than the fact that all of us like talking about things) | 19:50 |
| mordred | annegentle_: savanna | 19:50 |
| mordred | annegentle_: recently voted in as incubated and we're scheduling the move to the openstack/ git org | 19:50 |
| annegentle_ | mordred: Incubating -- my outline for docs would be quite conserving of resources | 19:51 |
| annegentle_ | mordred: wiki and rtfd likely but would entertain other ideas | 19:51 |
| mordred | annegentle_: yah. I would not expect incubated projets to be covered by the docs team. you guys are busy enough as it is | 19:51 |
| annegentle_ | mordred: we don't even cover integrated that well | 19:51 |
| jeblair | but that's separate from whether they are permitted to publish their own docs to docs.o.o.... | 19:52 |
| mordred | but I think the question here is about docs.openstack.org/developer | 19:52 |
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| mordred | to push the in-tree sphinx docs | 19:52 |
| SergeyLukjanov | mordred, yep | 19:52 |
| mordred | http://docs.openstack.org/developer/ironic/ | 19:52 |
| mordred | for instance | 19:52 |
| mordred | if that's not ok, we should probably circle back and make a plan | 19:52 |
| jeblair | based on past practice, other currently incubated projects, the way that the git repos are organized, and i think the spirit of the incubation process, we should continue to let incubated projects publish to docs.o.o/developer.... | 19:53 |
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| clarkb | ++ | 19:53 |
| SergeyLukjanov | jeblair, it looks consistent I think | 19:53 |
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| jeblair | (by spirit of incubation process, i believe the common understanding is that the incubation period is when a project is expected to bring themselves inline with how openstack projects operate) | 19:54 |
| mordred | clarkb: you're alive! | 19:54 |
| clarkb | barely | 19:54 |
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| clarkb | lunch happened. is now over | 19:54 |
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| annegentle_ | mordred: I'm thinking /developer/ironic got in by us just saying 'don't publish to rtfd and docs.o.o"? | 19:55 |
| annegentle_ | mordred: do I remember it wrong? | 19:55 |
| annegentle_ | jeblair: good point | 19:55 |
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| annegentle_ | and honestly I can't argue long or hard on a hard line for docs.o.org/developer -- the jobs and content aren't maintained by docs team but there are still perceptions about docs | 19:56 |
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| annegentle_ | so it feels like a slippery slope | 19:57 |
| mordred | annegentle_: I have almost no memory of anything - and I don't like slippery slopes | 19:57 |
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| annegentle_ | mordred: heh. me too | 19:57 |
| fungi | the alternative risk, also a slippery slope, is that we wind up with other places the project publishes documentation not covered by the docs team | 19:58 |
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| jeblair | i'd hate to think we're making it harder for projects to integrate, right as we're pushing them to be more proative in integrating before they become incubated | 19:58 |
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| dhellmann | can we move them to developer.openstack.org so they aren't associated with the docs team? | 19:58 |
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| jeblair | before they become integrated, rather. | 19:58 |
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| annegentle_ | dhellmann: might be useful but we get doc bugs on the wiki so who knows :) | 19:59 |
| dhellmann | annegentle_: welcome to the internet? ;-) | 19:59 |
| annegentle_ | dhellmann: and, I'd kinda like to have that domain for devs building cool stuff on openstack | 19:59 |
| annegentle_ | dhellmann: not developing openstack itself? | 19:59 |
| annegentle_ | dhellmann: but yeah | 19:59 |
| fungi | well, i think all projects get more than their share of miscategorized bugs, so that's probably not something we'll be able to put a stop to regardles | 19:59 |
| fungi | s | 19:59 |
| dhellmann | sure, that was just a suggested domain, there could be another | 19:59 |
| dhellmann | fungi: +1 | 19:59 |
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| annegentle_ | dhellmann: ok sure | 19:59 |
| mordred | what about annegentle.openstack.org ? | 20:00 |
| * mordred ducks | 20:00 | |
| annegentle_ | mordred: ha | 20:00 |
| dhellmann | haha | 20:00 |
| annegentle_ | how about a gated garden like facebook or google+ (facepalm) | 20:00 |
| jeblair | on that note | 20:00 |
| jeblair | #endmeeting | 20:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 20:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Oct 1 20:00:26 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 20:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2013/infra.2013-10-01-19.01.html | 20:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2013/infra.2013-10-01-19.01.txt | 20:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2013/infra.2013-10-01-19.01.log.html | 20:00 |
| annegentle_ | I should be more open and welcoming of content, eh? :) | 20:00 |
| ttx | PSA: No TC meeting this week. | 20:01 |
| jeblair | annegentle_: remember, you LIKE docs! :) | 20:01 |
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| dhellmann | annegentle_: I get people asking me for help with their homework on pymotw.com, so I know your pain | 20:01 |
| annegentle_ | jeblair: I only like good docs! And I tend to be overprotective of OpenStack! :) | 20:01 |
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| mordred | ttx: wait! what if i wnat to meet ayway? | 20:02 |
| ttx | mordred: we already do. | 20:03 |
| gabrielhurley | sounds like a conspiracy | 20:03 |
| ttx | confused now ? | 20:03 |
| * mordred uhm | 20:03 | |
| ttx | Who is going to win ? http://old-wiki.openstack.org/rc/ | 20:03 |
| fungi | sneak into #cabal and expose their secrets | 20:03 |
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| ttx | for those following at home, Keystone had the lead but just got its last patch reset. | 20:04 |
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| ttx | Now Glance might win ! | 20:04 |
| gabrielhurley | lol. Horizon will not, but we're close | 20:04 |
| fungi | i should pop some popcorn for this | 20:04 |
| gabrielhurley | I'm writing the last patch currently | 20:05 |
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| fungi | grr... ircnet bots fighting our bots. that's freaky | 20:06 |
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| gabrielhurley | lol | 20:08 |
| fungi | srsly? | 20:09 |
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| *** fungi sets mode: -o fungi | 20:11 | |
| * anteaya puts down $5 on fungi | 20:14 | |
| fungi | you'll lose. i sleep sometimes | 20:14 |
| anteaya | you wake up again though | 20:14 |
| anteaya | you are a Taurus, I am confident with my choice | 20:15 |
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| gabrielhurley | hmmm... maybe Horizon does have a chance... we've got 7 bugs total, all with fine patches, and only three aren't currently merging... | 20:17 |
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| gabrielhurley | I take that back, only two aren't currently merging. | 20:24 |
| gabrielhurley | :-D | 20:24 |
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| ttx | hola | 21:00 |
| jd__ | o/ | 21:00 |
| ttx | dhellmann, dolphm, notmyname, jd__, markwash, jgriffith, russellb, shardy, gabrielhurley, markmcclain: around ? | 21:00 |
| gabrielhurley | \o | 21:00 |
| shardy | o/ | 21:00 |
| markmcclain | o/ | 21:00 |
| russellb | o/ | 21:00 |
| dhellmann | o/ | 21:00 |
| notmyname | here | 21:00 |
| markwash | o/ | 21:00 |
| ttx | #startmeeting project | 21:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Oct 1 21:01:27 2013 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is ttx. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 21:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 21:01 |
| lifeless | o/ | 21:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: project)" | 21:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'project' | 21:01 |
| sdague | o/ | 21:01 |
| ttx | #link http://wiki.openstack.org/Meetings/ProjectMeeting | 21:01 |
| ttx | #topic General stuff | 21:01 |
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| *** openstack changes topic to "General stuff (Meeting topic: project)" | 21:01 | |
| ttx | We are still struggling with RC1 publication, mostly due to the bugs creating gate instability and slowing down merges | 21:01 |
| ttx | If this continues we might need extraordinary measures | 21:02 |
| ttx | Like limiting APRV to RC1-targeted fixes (and gate fixes), at least until we get a few RC1s out | 21:02 |
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| ttx | but there have been some improvement today, so we'll revisit the need for that later this week | 21:02 |
| ttx | and we should have glance and keystone out anytime now | 21:02 |
| ttx | sdague: Could you give us a quick status on the 3 top gate-f*cking offenders ? | 21:02 |
| jgriffith | o/ | 21:03 |
| sdague | so they are moving around a little, but here is the latest elastic recheck results - http://paste.openstack.org/show/47784/ | 21:03 |
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| sdague | realistically we had #1224001 go away mostly this morning | 21:03 |
| sdague | which was the neutron bug that was masking everything else yesterday | 21:04 |
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| russellb | there is one fix in flight with potential for the simultaneous read thing ... https://review.openstack.org/#/c/49210 | 21:04 |
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| ttx | sdague: bug is still there but it doesn't affect non-neutron that much, right ? | 21:04 |
| sdague | it's gone away because we stopped running neutron under tenanant issolation | 21:04 |
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| sdague | which means basically neutron is getting extra kid gloves in the gate | 21:04 |
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| ttx | ok | 21:04 |
| ttx | sdague: what would be your new favorite friend ? | 21:05 |
| sdague | I'd say the simultaneous read issue that russellb is pointing out is in the top 3 | 21:05 |
| russellb | markmcclain: ^^^ (my link) | 21:05 |
| sdague | #1229475 - what russellb linked for a review | 21:05 |
| * markmcclain looking | 21:05 | |
| sdague | and #1226337 | 21:05 |
| sdague | we don't have a bot in here that urls these? | 21:06 |
| ttx | sdague: #1226337 just delayed keystone RC1 cut by several hours, so it's my personal favorite | 21:06 |
| russellb | markmcclain: patch is a bit brute force, but we're sort of grasping here | 21:06 |
| ttx | bug 1226337 | 21:06 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1226337 in cinder "tempest.scenario.test_volume_boot_pattern.TestVolumeBootPattern flake failure" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1226337 | 21:06 |
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| ttx | bug 1229475 | 21:06 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1229475 in python-neutronclient "terminate_instance(): RuntimeError: Second simultaneous read on fileno 16 detected" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1229475 | 21:06 |
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| markmcclain | russellb: understood.. this is code that has been around for sometime, so wondering why it is suddenly causing so many failures recently | 21:07 |
| sdague | so 1226337 is basically a general case of volumes don't get created reliably | 21:07 |
| ttx | sdague: do we have an idea of how to fix that one ? | 21:07 |
| jgriffith | sdague: ttx yes | 21:07 |
| sdague | jgriffith: has been working on it | 21:07 |
| russellb | markmcclain: well, i'm nervous to merge it honestly, because we don't have a good explanation | 21:07 |
| jgriffith | sdague: ttx proposed fix in the queue | 21:07 |
| ttx | jgriffith: ok | 21:07 |
| sdague | jgriffith: ok, I thought that was just the debug fix? | 21:07 |
| jgriffith | sdague: ttx and to be specific it's the backing lun for the target isn't created | 21:08 |
| jgriffith | we've made a dent in it | 21:08 |
| russellb | markmcclain: all we know is that neutronclient ends up with a bad fd | 21:08 |
| jgriffith | sdague: no, that's an actual attempt to recreate the backing lun if it's missing | 21:08 |
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| sdague | ok, great | 21:08 |
| jgriffith | as well as provide more debug info | 21:08 |
| ttx | so it looks like we have stuff in progress to improve the sutuation on the top 3 offenders... which might fix those | 21:08 |
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| markmcclain | russellb: from a risk standpoint it can't hurt | 21:08 |
| ttx | sdague: is that a fair summary or do you have any issue flying under the radar ? | 21:08 |
| russellb | markmcclain: yeah, does *seem* safe at least | 21:09 |
| sdague | ttx: I think that's fine for now | 21:09 |
| markmcclain | russellb: only likely to increase request latency | 21:09 |
| ttx | sdague: ok | 21:09 |
| markmcclain | long term I do want to move to request too | 21:09 |
| ttx | annegentle, jeblair: other news from Docs/Infra programs ? | 21:09 |
| ttx | affecting release, that is ? | 21:09 |
| russellb | markmcclain: cool was wondering about that ... guess we should be quiet now :) | 21:09 |
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| ttx | In other news, it looks like we won't have phone landlines to call in in design summit rooms in Hong-Kong. | 21:10 |
| ttx | If we want to hook in critical remote participants we'll have to get creative using modern stuff like "the Internet" | 21:10 |
| jgriffith | ttx: what's "Internet" | 21:10 |
| ttx | jgriffith: somethig they apparently have in HongKong | 21:10 |
| dolphm | we don't normally have such modern stuff | 21:11 |
| jgriffith | world of wonder | 21:11 |
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| ttx | OK, let's go into project-specific details now, if annegentle and jeblair don't have anything to add | 21:11 |
| ttx | #topic Oslo status | 21:11 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Oslo status (Meeting topic: project)" | 21:11 | |
| ttx | dhellmann: hi! | 21:11 |
| dhellmann | hi! | 21:11 |
| ttx | dhellmann is standing in for markmc | 21:11 |
| ttx | #link https://launchpad.net/oslo/+milestone/havana-rc1 | 21:11 |
| ttx | One bug left before stable/havana cut: | 21:12 |
| ttx | Bug 1225099 | 21:12 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1225099 in oslo "Encoding hard-coded in gettextutils.Message" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1225099 | 21:12 |
| dhellmann | we've got a 2 part fix for that | 21:12 |
| ttx | Impacts most other projects. Could you elaborate on the impact of that one ? Given how many projects are affected I'd like to make sure it's actually RC1-critical | 21:12 |
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| ttx | read the bug but it just confused me | 21:12 |
| dhellmann | part 1 is to disable "lazy" translation in the projects currently using it, because the implementation is sketchy | 21:12 |
| dhellmann | part 2 is to fix the translation issue in logging, and we have a patch in process for that | 21:13 |
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| dhellmann | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/49230/3 | 21:13 |
| dhellmann | that fix will let us re-enable lazy evaluation, but given that this is happening so late in the cycle most of us feel more comfortable leaving it turned off and focusing on it early in icehouse | 21:14 |
| ttx | dhellmann: so those fixes will need to be synced in the consuming projects ? | 21:14 |
| dhellmann | especially because this touches logging, which is used everywhere | 21:14 |
| dhellmann | ttx: we will need to patch the projects to avoid configuring logging with lazy evaluation enabled (there are 2 ways that's done) | 21:14 |
| dhellmann | and then the other changes will be worked on, but don't need to be merged into the other projects | 21:14 |
| ttx | dhellmann: any chance we can have those patches proposed today ? some projects will block their RC1 on that quite soon | 21:15 |
| ttx | ceilometer comes to mind | 21:15 |
| ttx | heat too | 21:15 |
| dhellmann | ttx: doubtful, but early tomorrow may be possible | 21:15 |
| ttx | (I'm talking about the lazy-disabling patch, not the long-term fix) | 21:16 |
| ttx | ok | 21:16 |
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| dhellmann | yes, me, too (it's the end of the day here and I have a long commute ahead of me today) | 21:16 |
| dhellmann | I'll see if some of the other folks involved can start on that, though | 21:16 |
| ttx | dhellmann: could you explain the impact ? How many translations use double byte stuff ? | 21:16 |
| dhellmann | that's not entirely clear, but my impression is many asian languages will be impacted | 21:17 |
| dhellmann | but *only* for logging | 21:17 |
| dhellmann | so a work-around is to not log using the locale-specific language | 21:17 |
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| ttx | dhellmann: ok, my understanding is that the patch will be simple enough, so maybe we'll find contributors to propose them earlier and in all cases they should be reviewed fast enough | 21:18 |
| dhellmann | which is, obviously, not ideal | 21:18 |
| dhellmann | right | 21:18 |
| ttx | so that will not create too much of a delay | 21:18 |
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| ttx | dhellmann: that's all I had. Questions about Oslo ? | 21:19 |
| ttx | dhellmann: anything you wanted to mention ? | 21:19 |
| dhellmann | nothing else from me | 21:19 |
| ttx | #topic Keystone status | 21:19 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Keystone status (Meeting topic: project)" | 21:19 | |
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| ttx | dolphm: hi! | 21:19 |
| dolphm | o/ | 21:19 |
| ttx | #link https://launchpad.net/keystone/+milestone/havana-rc1 | 21:19 |
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| ttx | RC1 pending merge of the icehouse version bump: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/48971/ | 21:19 |
| dolphm | yay! | 21:19 |
| ttx | dolphm: luckily you don't seem to use this lazy thing | 21:19 |
| ttx | I'll cut the release branch and tag RC1 if no bug gets targeted to havana-rc1 when the version bump merges. | 21:20 |
| dolphm | :) | 21:20 |
| ttx | which should happen during my sleep, hopefully | 21:20 |
| ttx | dolphm: Anything else that may affect us ? | 21:20 |
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| dolphm | nope! | 21:20 |
| ttx | Other news / questions about Keystone ? | 21:20 |
| ttx | #topic Ceilometer status | 21:21 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Ceilometer status (Meeting topic: project)" | 21:21 | |
| ttx | jd__: hey | 21:21 |
| jd__ | yop | 21:21 |
| ttx | #link https://launchpad.net/ceilometer/+milestone/havana-rc1 | 21:21 |
| ttx | Last review in gate: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/47542/ | 21:21 |
| ttx | Then we are affected by Bug 1225099 | 21:21 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1225099 in oslo "Encoding hard-coded in gettextutils.Message" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1225099 | 21:21 |
| jd__ | just for 6 hours already :) | 21:22 |
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| ttx | jd__: could you push a patch for that, with dhellmann quick guidance ? | 21:22 |
| jd__ | sure | 21:22 |
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| ttx | Then we can push and approve the version bump (in setup.cfg, bump 2013.2 to 2014.1) tomorrow in our common morning | 21:22 |
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| jd__ | that would work for me | 21:22 |
| ttx | we should be all set for RC1 tomorrow | 21:22 |
| jd__ | I just need to know what the patch should like since I've no idea yet :) | 21:23 |
| ttx | unless you have a surprise up your sleeve | 21:23 |
| ttx | jd__: so I'll let you sync with dhellmann now | 21:23 |
| ttx | Other news / questions about Ceilometer ? | 21:23 |
| ttx | #topic Swift status | 21:24 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Swift status (Meeting topic: project)" | 21:24 | |
| notmyname | hi! | 21:24 |
| notmyname | yay swift | 21:24 |
| ttx | #link https://launchpad.net/swift/+milestone/1.9.3-rc1 | 21:24 |
| ttx | notmyname: o/ | 21:24 |
| ttx | notmyname: How far are you ? Would be nice to get to RC1 this week for you too, leaving 2 weeks for RC testing and any necessary respin | 21:24 |
| ttx | from what I've seen diskfile-databasebroker-as-apis is still very much in progress ? | 21:24 |
| ttx | while the only review I could find earlier today about multiple-domains-in-domain-remap is abandoned | 21:25 |
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| ttx | so I can't really tell an ETA | 21:25 |
| notmyname | tracking 2 patches for RC: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/48538/ and https://review.openstack.org/#/c/45134/. Those are the requirements. I'd love to see some more of the DiskFile, but getting reviews has been slow (although the codes is pretty much written) | 21:25 |
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| * ttx adds to starred list | 21:25 | |
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| ttx | notmyname: i'll ping you again when those two land | 21:25 |
| ttx | see where we are at that poin | 21:26 |
| notmyname | the memcache pool got hit with gate failures, so it should be landing soon, I think | 21:26 |
| ttx | t | 21:26 |
| notmyname | kk, sounds good | 21:26 |
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| ttx | but later this week sounds definitely possible here | 21:26 |
| ttx | notmyname: Other news ? | 21:26 |
| notmyname | that would be nice :-) | 21:26 |
| notmyname | no other news from my end right now, but i have a question | 21:27 |
| ttx | go for it | 21:27 |
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| notmyname | are the updated global requirements (that ae now being auto added to the patch queue) required for RC, too? ie are we getting all on the same page before havana? | 21:27 |
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| ttx | notmyname: I'm not totally sure if it's required or just nice to have | 21:28 |
| ttx | mordred: ? | 21:28 |
| notmyname | jeblair: mordred: ^^? | 21:28 |
| mordred | what did I do? | 21:29 |
| ttx | i.e. should MOST projects or ALL projects have it for it to work | 21:29 |
| mordred | I think it's nice to have | 21:29 |
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| notmyname | ok, good to know for the review queue | 21:29 |
| notmyname | thanks | 21:29 |
| jeblair | o/ | 21:29 |
| ttx | mordred: thx | 21:29 |
| notmyname | ttx: ok, I'm good | 21:29 |
| ttx | #topic Glance status | 21:29 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Glance status (Meeting topic: project)" | 21:29 | |
| markwash | live from Bend, OR | 21:29 |
| mordred | I know swift has concerns around the lower bars - so I'd say that being in conflict with them is bad | 21:29 |
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| ttx | markwash: o/ | 21:29 |
| notmyname | mordred: we'll figure something out | 21:29 |
| ttx | #link https://launchpad.net/glance/+milestone/havana-rc1 | 21:29 |
| ttx | RC1 pending merge of the icehouse version bump: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/49029/ | 21:30 |
| markwash | all done* | 21:30 |
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| ttx | now on top of gate | 21:30 |
| markwash | *some bumping entailed | 21:30 |
| markwash | #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/glance/?field.tag=havana-rc-potential | 21:30 |
| markwash | those were the bumps | 21:30 |
| ttx | ETA 7min | 21:30 |
| ttx | or 6 hours, depending on the results | 21:30 |
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| ttx | markwash: Any last-minute issue ? | 21:30 |
| * markwash bites nails | 21:30 | |
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| ttx | I'll cut the release branch and tag RC1 after meeting if it passes | 21:31 |
| markwash | there are those havana-rc-potential issues but they don't look very serious | 21:31 |
| ttx | tomorrow morning if not | 21:31 |
| markwash | if any of those rc potentials land, does that screw anything up? | 21:31 |
| ttx | markwash: we'll keep potentially RC2-openers in that list for regular review | 21:31 |
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| ttx | markwash: stuff that lands post-version-bump are icehouse | 21:31 |
| markwash | k cool thanks | 21:31 |
| ttx | markwash: we can still backport them though if needed | 21:32 |
| ttx | Other news / questions about Glance ? | 21:32 |
| markwash | Nothing from me | 21:32 |
| ttx | markwash: you don't use the lazy translation stuff, right ? | 21:32 |
| markwash | I don't know what that means, so probably not? | 21:32 |
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| ttx | we'll assume markmc did his affected analysis right :) | 21:33 |
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| ttx | #topic Neutron status | 21:33 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Neutron status (Meeting topic: project)" | 21:33 | |
| ttx | markmcclain: hi! | 21:33 |
| markmcclain | hi | 21:33 |
| ttx | #link https://launchpad.net/neutron/+milestone/havana-rc1 | 21:33 |
| ttx | 5 RC1-targeted bugs left | 21:33 |
| ttx | bug 1224967: https://review.openstack.org/48261 needs core reviews | 21:34 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1224967 in neutron "port down after live migration" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1224967 | 21:34 |
| ttx | You are affected by common issue bug 1225099, so we'll need a patch disabling the lazy mode here too | 21:34 |
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| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1225099 in oslo "Encoding hard-coded in gettextutils.Message" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1225099 | 21:34 |
| markmcclain | yeah.. was just discussing with dhellmann | 21:34 |
| ttx | Then the last 3 things are the flaky issues affecting the gate | 21:34 |
| ttx | At this point we should cut RC1 as soon as the first two issues are merged and keep working on the other 3 | 21:35 |
| ttx | and do a RC2 if we do significant progress on them | 21:35 |
| ttx | markmcclain: Anything else you'd like to throw at RC1 ? | 21:35 |
| markmcclain | ok.. I just want to make sure we understand the first three before release | 21:36 |
| ttx | agreed | 21:36 |
| markmcclain | softening the tempest checks while nice is concerning to me, but we can work towards a fix in RC2 | 21:36 |
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| ttx | Other news / questions about Neutron ? | 21:36 |
| markmcclain | nothing else from me | 21:37 |
| ttx | #topic Cinder status | 21:37 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Cinder status (Meeting topic: project)" | 21:37 | |
| ttx | jgriffith: hola! | 21:37 |
| ttx | #link https://launchpad.net/cinder/+milestone/havana-rc1 | 21:37 |
| jgriffith | howdy | 21:37 |
| ttx | 5 bugs left | 21:37 |
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| ttx | bug 1230176 still needs once extra core review | 21:37 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1230176 in cinder "[taskflow] Quotas are not rolled back on failure of create volume " [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1230176 | 21:37 |
| ttx | on https://review.openstack.org/#/c/49103/ | 21:38 |
| ttx | Then we are left with three bugs with uncertain status: | 21:38 |
| ttx | + the lazy thing | 21:38 |
| ttx | bug 1230189 | 21:38 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1230189 in cinder "[taskflow] Incorrect state transition on failure of create volume API" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1230189 | 21:38 |
| ttx | did you make progress on that one ? | 21:38 |
| jgriffith | Not yet, but it's number is up | 21:38 |
| ttx | bug 1229894 | 21:39 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1229894 in cinder "brick has duplicate conf entries in iser and iscsi" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1229894 | 21:39 |
| jgriffith | after this meeting I'll jumpon it | 21:39 |
| jgriffith | in progres, just need the review | 21:39 |
| jgriffith | review's | 21:39 |
| ttx | at https://review.openstack.org/#/c/48528/ | 21:39 |
| jgriffith | the error code 22 I think might be able to go away | 21:39 |
| ttx | jgriffith: will that solve all or just half the bug ? | 21:39 |
| jgriffith | all 3 areas for that bug are in progress | 21:40 |
| ttx | (I see iser in addition to iscsi) | 21:40 |
| jgriffith | there's mine, Walts and cburgess they're all in | 21:40 |
| ttx | ok | 21:40 |
| cburgess | jgriffith: Mine needs to be re-based actually. | 21:40 |
| ttx | bug 1223469 | 21:40 |
| jgriffith | cburgess: boooo | 21:40 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1223469 in cinder "Volume create tgtadmin fails with error code 22" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1223469 | 21:40 |
| cburgess | Was waiting for Walt to get his fixed. | 21:40 |
| jgriffith | I was just looking at that and I think I can close it | 21:40 |
| cburgess | I need his changes. | 21:40 |
| jgriffith | ttx: it turns out that my retry is working :) | 21:41 |
| ttx | jgriffith: what do you mean by "might be able to go away" | 21:41 |
| jgriffith | ttx: http://paste.openstack.org/show/47798/ | 21:41 |
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| jgriffith | ttx: so the error still occurs but the recovery change I made seems to be working | 21:41 |
| jgriffith | ttx: at least based on queiries in logstash | 21:42 |
| ttx | jgriffith: so we could move that to havana-rc-potential ? | 21:42 |
| jgriffith | ttx: I think I'm just going to close it an open it back up if something different comes up | 21:42 |
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| ttx | jgriffith: sounds good | 21:42 |
| ttx | jgriffith: you'll need a patch up for bug 1225099 too | 21:43 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1225099 in oslo "Encoding hard-coded in gettextutils.Message" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1225099 | 21:43 |
| ttx | maybe wait and see how ceilo fixes it | 21:43 |
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| ttx | Other news / questions about Cinder ? | 21:43 |
| jgriffith | errmmm... TBH haven't looked at that yet but heard dhellmann talking about it I think | 21:43 |
| jgriffith | Nope... you all may be rid of me after this week :) | 21:43 |
| ttx | jgriffith: yes, the idea is to disable lazy translations until properly ficed | 21:43 |
| ttx | fixed | 21:43 |
| jgriffith | but I'm not going anywhere :) | 21:43 |
| jgriffith | I'll still be a PITA | 21:44 |
| ttx | jgriffith: thanks! | 21:44 |
| ttx | #topic Nova status | 21:44 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Nova status (Meeting topic: project)" | 21:44 | |
| russellb | o/ | 21:44 |
| ttx | russellb: hi! | 21:44 |
| ttx | #link https://launchpad.net/nova/+milestone/havana-rc1 | 21:44 |
| ttx | All in gate except: | 21:44 |
| russellb | looking a bit better | 21:44 |
| ttx | bug 1229475 | 21:44 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1229475 in python-neutronclient "terminate_instance(): RuntimeError: Second simultaneous read on fileno 16 detected" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1229475 | 21:44 |
| russellb | yep, still pushing hard on that one, potential patch up against neutronclient | 21:44 |
| russellb | and the neutron folks are jumping in to help look too | 21:45 |
| ttx | ok | 21:45 |
| ttx | and will need to dsiable "lazy" for common bug 1225099 | 21:45 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1225099 in oslo "Encoding hard-coded in gettextutils.Message" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1225099 | 21:45 |
| ttx | that's the last two things | 21:45 |
| russellb | yeah, was just going to follow the lead of what gets done across all affected projects there | 21:45 |
| cburgess | jgriffith: Is walter done rebasing his stuff? | 21:45 |
| russellb | translations in the gate | 21:45 |
| ttx | translations were not that stale in your case anyway | 21:46 |
| russellb | tomorrow seems possible, but optimistic, but should definitely be ready thursday, unless something new happens | 21:46 |
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| ttx | I'm traveling on Thursday.Friday but will do my best syncing with you | 21:46 |
| russellb | oh, sorry | 21:46 |
| ttx | russellb: well, my faulty | 21:46 |
| russellb | would you want to just wait for monday at that point? | 21:47 |
| ttx | I thought we'd be done with RC1s by then. I should know better | 21:47 |
| russellb | heh | 21:47 |
| ttx | russellb: that conference better have decent wifi | 21:47 |
| russellb | ha ok. | 21:47 |
| russellb | so we'll still aim for this week asap then | 21:47 |
| ttx | yes, definitely | 21:47 |
| ttx | Other news / questions about Nova ? | 21:47 |
| ttx | #topic Heat status | 21:48 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Heat status (Meeting topic: project)" | 21:48 | |
| ttx | shardy: o/ | 21:48 |
| shardy | o/ | 21:48 |
| ttx | #link https://launchpad.net/heat/+milestone/havana-rc1 | 21:48 |
| ttx | 3 bugs left, one gating | 21:48 |
| ttx | bug 1227901 - where are you now on this one ? | 21:48 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1227901 in heat "CFN signal URLs don't work when trusts is enabled" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1227901 | 21:48 |
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| shardy | ttx: I think we've decided to go ahead and push the change, and I've reached agreement with ayoung re the tempest tests for keystoneclient | 21:49 |
| ttx | shardy: cool | 21:49 |
| ttx | then we'll be pending our common friend bug 1225099 | 21:49 |
| shardy | ttx: I just addressed some (minor) review comments, so hopefully we'll get that patch in the gate soon | 21:49 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1225099 in oslo "Encoding hard-coded in gettextutils.Message" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1225099 | 21:49 |
| ttx | would be great to find someone in some pacific tz to push a patch disabling the lazy stuff | 21:50 |
| ttx | then we could cut RC1 tomorrow, maybe | 21:50 |
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| shardy | Sure, I'll speak to stevebaker and asalkeld | 21:50 |
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| shardy | yup, tomorrow looks possible if we can get things through the gate.. | 21:50 |
| ttx | shardy: i'll miss a european PTL | 21:51 |
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| ttx | Other news / questions about Heat ? | 21:51 |
| shardy | ttx: Haha, I'll still be around to pass on messages ;) | 21:51 |
| ttx | #topic Horizon status | 21:52 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Horizon status (Meeting topic: project)" | 21:52 | |
| gabrielhurley | \o | 21:52 |
| ttx | gabrielhurley: o/ | 21:52 |
| gabrielhurley | We're down to five bugs, all with patches that have been approved, so we're waiting on the gate. translations are merged to both Horizon and django_openstack_auth packages. Released 1.1.3 of django_openstack_auth to PyPI with the latest. Once these last bugs are merged I'll push the version bump to gerrit and we'll cut our RC1. I'd expect that within the next 24 hours depending on the gate. | 21:52 |
| ttx | #link https://launchpad.net/horizon/+milestone/havana-rc1 | 21:52 |
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| * ttx looks at https://bugs.launchpad.net/horizon/+bug/1211535 | 21:52 | |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1211535 in horizon "HorizonMiddleware class causes excessive session creation" [Medium,Fix committed] | 21:52 |
| ttx | ohn the django_openstack_auth fix fixed it | 21:52 |
| ttx | ok, looks like you might be all set for tomorrow | 21:53 |
| gabrielhurley | yeah. there was a change that needed to be released there, so I did that along with the translations in one fell swoop | 21:53 |
| gabrielhurley | tomorrow's the goal | 21:53 |
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| ttx | Other news / questions about Horizon ? | 21:54 |
| gabrielhurley | I got nothin' | 21:54 |
| clarkb | I have one | 21:54 |
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| ttx | markwash: damn | 21:54 |
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| gabrielhurley | go for it | 21:54 |
| clarkb | can we make the jobs for django_openstack_auth voting? I think they all pass but most are non voting | 21:54 |
| gabrielhurley | absolutely | 21:54 |
| clarkb | the jenkins gate jobs | 21:54 |
| gabrielhurley | at least fine by me | 21:54 |
| clarkb | gabrielhurley: cool, I will propose that change | 21:54 |
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| ttx | other questions ? | 21:56 |
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| ttx | #topic Incubated projects | 21:56 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Incubated projects (Meeting topic: project)" | 21:56 | |
| ttx | devananda, hub_cap: around ? | 21:56 |
| hub_cap | aye | 21:57 |
| ttx | hub_cap: Still no need for an RC2 ? | 21:57 |
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| hub_cap | well......... | 21:57 |
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| hub_cap | https://github.com/openstack/trove/blob/master/etc/trove/api-paste.ini#L22 | 21:57 |
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| hub_cap | im thinking we should correct that and backport it | 21:57 |
| ttx | yes | 21:58 |
| hub_cap | i think zigo_ said there was a security issue w/ teh last one | 21:58 |
| hub_cap | or the last time that was "fudged" in another project | 21:58 |
| ttx | yes, that was fixed in other projects | 21:58 |
| hub_cap | thx to zigo_ for finding it for us :) | 21:58 |
| hub_cap | that alone will constitute our rc2 :) | 21:58 |
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| ttx | hub_cap: please file a bug about it | 21:58 |
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| ttx | get it fixed in icehouse | 21:58 |
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| hub_cap | i think zigo_ did let me look | 21:59 |
| ttx | then we'll open RC2 and backport it | 21:59 |
| hub_cap | https://bugs.launchpad.net/trove/+bug/1233305 | 21:59 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1233305 in trove "Symlink attack with signing_dir = /tmp/keystone-signing-nova" [Undecided,New] | 21:59 |
| ttx | but first file a bug and get it fixed into master | 21:59 |
| ttx | ok | 21:59 |
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| ttx | tagged | 21:59 |
| ttx | Any question ? | 21:59 |
| hub_cap | ill fix now and we can backport | 22:00 |
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| hub_cap | nope | 22:00 |
| hub_cap | just hugs and lots of em | 22:00 |
| ttx | ack, talk to you tomorrow on opening that RC2 window | 22:00 |
| ttx | #endmeeting | 22:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 22:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Oct 1 22:00:36 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 22:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/project/2013/project.2013-10-01-21.01.html | 22:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/project/2013/project.2013-10-01-21.01.txt | 22:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/project/2013/project.2013-10-01-21.01.log.html | 22:00 |
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| gabrielhurley | #startmeeting horizon | 22:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Oct 1 22:01:24 2013 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is gabrielhurley. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 22:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 22:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: horizon)" | 22:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'horizon' | 22:01 |
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| gabrielhurley | hello folks | 22:01 |
| jcoufal | _o/ | 22:01 |
| lsmola | hello | 22:01 |
| david-lyle | Hello | 22:01 |
| kspear | hi | 22:01 |
| timductive1 | o/ | 22:01 |
| gabrielhurley | #topic overview | 22:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "overview (Meeting topic: horizon)" | 22:01 | |
| gabrielhurley | https://launchpad.net/horizon/+milestone/havana-rc1 | 22:01 |
| lblanchard | hi all! | 22:01 |
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| gabrielhurley | that's pretty much the story, there | 22:01 |
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| gabrielhurley | last five bugs, all with patches that are merging presently | 22:02 |
| gabrielhurley | keep an eye on 'em to make sure they don't get stuck or anything, but that's where we're at | 22:02 |
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| lcheng | hello | 22:02 |
| gabrielhurley | once they're all merged I'll push a version bump, ttx will cut the RC from that commit, and master is open for icehouse work | 22:02 |
| gabrielhurley | after the RC is cut, any fixes that need to go into Havana need to be fixed in master first, then backported to the RC branch | 22:03 |
| ttx | only if an RC window is reopened | 22:03 |
| ttx | (the backport) | 22:03 |
| gabrielhurley | indeed | 22:03 |
| gabrielhurley | best case is we don't have any need for an RC2 | 22:03 |
| ttx | i.e. we need to have an annoying bug at least | 22:03 |
| gabrielhurley | given how much work we've done to vet RC1 I think it's possible we won't, but better to know what happens if we do have to do an RC2 than not. | 22:04 |
| gabrielhurley | generally the bar for respinning the RC for me is either a security problem or a significantly broken user-facing feature. | 22:04 |
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| gabrielhurley | The one last thing I will do today is to write up the release notes and commit those to the repo, as is my custom. that'll come in right before the version bump commit | 22:05 |
| gabrielhurley | Aside from the RC, the only other official business this week is that PTL elections are currently in progress. You should have received an email with a link to vote. If you did not, please let me know. | 22:06 |
| gabrielhurley | I don't have any other topics for this meeting. The bugs are in a known place, and it's a little early to start reviewing blueprints for Icehouse. I'm just gonna skip straight to open discussion. | 22:08 |
| gabrielhurley | #topic open discussion | 22:08 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: horizon)" | 22:08 | |
| gabrielhurley | free for all! | 22:08 |
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| david-lyle | The bug mentioned in the last meeting https://bugs.launchpad.net/horizon/+bug/1211535 is not really complete | 22:08 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1211535 in horizon "HorizonMiddleware class causes excessive session creation" [Medium,Fix committed] | 22:08 |
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| ekarlso | gabrielhurley: question, do you got a clue on the resource introspection stuff and realtime notifications ? | 22:09 |
| david-lyle | the fix that went in django_openstack_auth was a minor fix that complemented it | 22:09 |
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| gabrielhurley | david-lyle: no? | 22:09 |
| gabrielhurley | yeah, I thought the other half was also merged | 22:09 |
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| david-lyle | the patch to Horizon was reverted because the fix in django_openstack_auth was needed, the original patch has not been reposted | 22:10 |
| gabrielhurley | ekarlso: introspection is an Icehouse maybe. realtime is an icehouse definite. | 22:10 |
| ekarlso | gabrielhurley: isn't introspection already due date ? | 22:10 |
| david-lyle | gabrielhurley: we can close Havana without it, but we should reopen it | 22:10 |
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| ekarlso | i mean, i thought you talked about it for grizzly ? | 22:11 |
| gabrielhurley | david-lyle: ah, I missed that it hadn't been re-posted. let's get that up now that django_openstack_auth is published. | 22:11 |
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| gabrielhurley | ekarlso: that's true, but there's no current resources available to tackle it. it was one of my personal projects, but my budget for coding time on Horizon ain't what it used to be. the realtime stuff has a lot more interest and energy around it right now, and it's one I'm currently more invested in. | 22:11 |
| gabrielhurley | It's only about 50% true that what I say "just happens" | 22:12 |
| gabrielhurley | ;-) | 22:12 |
| ekarlso | gabrielhurley: lots of nebula stuff going on rather then horizon ? ;p | 22:12 |
| gabrielhurley | david-lyle: does the patch need any changes or can it just be re-approved as it was with the new openstack_auth? | 22:12 |
| david-lyle | gabrielhurley: if we do, we'll have to bump openstack/requirements to 1.1.3 for django_openstack_auth and then horizon as well. Causes ugly error without django_openstack_auth fix | 22:12 |
| gabrielhurley | hmmm... the upper range isn't pinned, so it'd get picked up in new ones, but not in old ones. | 22:13 |
| david-lyle | but, Horizon can't pin unless openstack/requirements pins | 22:13 |
| gabrielhurley | okay, I re-opened the ticket. I'll tag it as a havana-rc-potential and we can revisit it *if* we need to cut another RC. let's get the work done on it though. | 22:14 |
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| david-lyle | ok, yeah, I think it's an all or none kind of deal in my mind | 22:14 |
| gabrielhurley | if by chance it all lands before everything else in the gate, that simplifies things, I suppose | 22:14 |
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| david-lyle | gabrielhurley: sounds good | 22:15 |
| gabrielhurley | okay. ticket marked as such. | 22:15 |
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| gabrielhurley | other topics? | 22:15 |
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| kspear | i think https://review.openstack.org/#/c/42240/ was the repost fwiw | 22:16 |
| david-lyle | I'll work with the author to iron this out | 22:17 |
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| gabrielhurley | thanks | 22:17 |
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| gabrielhurley | going once.... | 22:19 |
| lblanchard | I've created some wireframes around some details pages for Tuskar... | 22:19 |
| lblanchard | http://people.redhat.com/~lsurette/OpenStack/Tuskar%20Detail%20Pages_1.0.pdf | 22:19 |
| lblanchard | if anyone has interest in reviewing them | 22:19 |
| lblanchard | there is a thread on the ML | 22:20 |
| lsmola | cool | 22:20 |
| david-lyle | lblanchard: at first glance, those look really nice, but no tables !! :) | 22:20 |
| lblanchard | even though these are focused on Tuskar, I think there could be a lot of reuse in the visualizations for Horizon proper | 22:20 |
| lblanchard | david-lyle: true, no tables :) | 22:20 |
| lblanchard | david-lyle: but a user would probably get to these from tables, haha | 22:21 |
| david-lyle | gotta have tables | 22:21 |
| lblanchard | david-lyle: maybe there is information missing that belongs in tables | 22:21 |
| timductive1 | those are some nice visualizations lblanchard | 22:22 |
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| gabrielhurley | very nice. my one piece of practical advice on these (from having gone through this with Nebula's designer working on both OpenStack and Nebula's dashboard) is that the "ideal"/"end goal" wireframes are often so far out that even beginning to implement them can be tough. Data sources for many of those metrics are difficult and deployment-dependent. Beyond that, I can identify a dozen things in those that don't exist in | 22:22 |
| gabrielhurley | I guess what I'm trying to get at is that it might also be helpful to have "transition" wireframes | 22:22 |
| lblanchard | timductive1: thanks! | 22:23 |
| gabrielhurley | or some plan for how we achieve this end goal, and all the stakeholders involved | 22:23 |
| lblanchard | gabrielhurley: fair point | 22:23 |
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| jcoufal | right.. I have actually some wireframes around tuskar as well | 22:23 |
| timductive1 | also check that d3 can handle all of those visualization types | 22:23 |
| lblanchard | gabrielhurley: I agree…I'll be working closely with lsmola on this | 22:23 |
| jcoufal | mostly around processes, which might help to get the idea better | 22:23 |
| jcoufal | let me search for the links :) | 22:23 |
| gabrielhurley | jcoufal: I was gonna ask how much you and lblanchard's work overlapped here... | 22:23 |
| gabrielhurley | timductive1: it can with a little elbow-grease. You can build whatever you need with it. | 22:24 |
| lblanchard | gabrielhurley: jcoufal and I have been working closely…making sure we don't step on each others toes, and being consistent with designs | 22:24 |
| jcoufal | gabrielhurley: lblanchard is focusing more on detail pages and metrics, I am more dealing around concepts and workflows | 22:24 |
| gabrielhurley | I've seen many of those things built before, which is why I know the cost in work-hours. | 22:24 |
| jcoufal | we are in sync, reviewing and cooperating | 22:24 |
| gabrielhurley | lblanchard, jcoufal: great. just making sure. | 22:24 |
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| lblanchard | gabrielhurley: :) | 22:25 |
| lblanchard | gabrielhurley: I will be sure to help development through transitional wireframes if information isn't available to start... | 22:25 |
| jcoufal | here are latest proposals | 22:25 |
| jcoufal | #link http://people.redhat.com/~jcoufal/openstack/tuskar/2013-09-30_tuskar_l-group_creation_wireframes.pdf | 22:26 |
| gabrielhurley | in general I totally love the wireframes. I just want to make sure we don't kill ourselves trying to get there. :-) | 22:26 |
| lsmola | timductive1, there is also rickshaw library for linecharts | 22:26 |
| jcoufal | #link http://people.redhat.com/~jcoufal/openstack/tuskar/2013-09-30_tuskar_resource_class_creation_wireframes.pdf | 22:26 |
| david-lyle | I'm hoping Tuskar is responsible for most of the data aggregation | 22:26 |
| lsmola | gabrielhurley, we will start with little pieces :-) | 22:26 |
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| jcoufal | and the whole youtube stream explaining them :) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m3y6uD8yKVQ) | 22:26 |
| timductive1 | Ismola true | 22:27 |
| gabrielhurley | It's also worth noting that, while Tuskar/Triple-O *is* cool and offers awesome possibilities, it's still not gonna even graduate for another 6 months at best and would be in the integrated release two cycles from now. That's a pretty long time. | 22:27 |
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| lblanchard | gabrielhurley: yeah, agreed. Now that I've put together what we would love to have, I will step back and with lsmola figure out what is feasible for a first cut. | 22:27 |
| jcoufal | gabrielhurley: yes | 22:27 |
| lsmola | gabrielhurley, we can use Horizon in tripleo now | 22:28 |
| lsmola | gabrielhurley, so we would like to make all chart libraries upstream first | 22:28 |
| lblanchard | david-lyle: I believe the plan is that tuskar would do the aggregations…lsmola? | 22:29 |
| gabrielhurley | for sure. I'm not here to direct where the energy of the UX group goes. Only making sure they have full information for where prioritizing their time. | 22:29 |
| gabrielhurley | ignore my bad grammar | 22:29 |
| jcoufal | Another update is on navigation enhancements - will be finishing prototype, sending it out shortly and I hope we send some initial patches soon as well | 22:29 |
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| gabrielhurley | jcoufal: I look forward to that | 22:29 |
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| lsmola | david-lyle, lblanchard yeah in Undercloud Tuskar will make the aggregations | 22:30 |
| lblanchard | side note…I'd be happy to hear from anyone if they do have certain UX things they'd like to see happen :) | 22:30 |
| lsmola | david-lyle, lblanchard in over cloud it will be project detail pages, instance detail pages, maybe host aggregates .. | 22:30 |
| * david-lyle feeling better | 22:31 | |
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| gabrielhurley | my biggest UX wish is that we could roll the network topology stuff and the instance flows into one so that the topology view was the main way you interacted with the system... there's a lot of code peril to work through there, but I think it'd make the experience much more compelling. | 22:31 |
| lsmola | david-lyle, overcloud and undercloud have similar aggregates :-) | 22:32 |
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| gabrielhurley | kinda like the heat topology view + network topology + instances + volumes all in one go. | 22:32 |
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| jcoufal | gabrielhurley: yeah, I am already got in touch with Toshi around network topology | 22:32 |
| david-lyle | I'm hoping to get time to work on a similar view for identity | 22:32 |
| jcoufal | sorry for grammar | 22:32 |
| lblanchard | gabrielhurley: great to know! Maybe I can help wireframe there too. | 22:32 |
| gabrielhurley | the code side is one thing, but I think having some clear wireframes demenstrating all the flows before we even start on the code would be a good idea. | 22:33 |
| david-lyle | make groups/roles/projects/domains understandable | 22:33 |
| gabrielhurley | it's also a bit tricky 'cuz you have to account for with *and* without Neutron | 22:33 |
| gabrielhurley | david-lyle: ++ | 22:33 |
| jcoufal | david-lyle: ++ | 22:33 |
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| jcoufal | david-lyle: that's great, we should jump into that as well | 22:33 |
| david-lyle | between these topology type views and a real workflow, I think we can make Horizon a lot more accessible for a wider range of users | 22:34 |
| * david-lyle looking forward to Icehouse | 22:34 | |
| lblanchard | sounds great to me!! | 22:34 |
| lsmola | great | 22:34 |
| gabrielhurley | the group/role/project/domain discussion may fit in our IA session at the summit, but we may want to have a little informal hallway session on that topic alone. | 22:34 |
| david-lyle | sounds like a good idea | 22:35 |
| jcoufal | gabrielhurley: me and lblanchard want to send out initial proposal before that | 22:35 |
| jcoufal | to kick some discussion around | 22:35 |
| jcoufal | and get people to start thinking on that | 22:35 |
| gabrielhurley | I've tried various alternate ways of grouping that information and have had mixed success. I seem to always have to gloss over one variable to make it understandable. | 22:35 |
| david-lyle | it's difficult and I think limiting the amount of information initially visible will help, because you can make it a real nightmare | 22:37 |
| gabrielhurley | yep | 22:37 |
| david-lyle | still working through the layout conceptually which is a big reason I haven't started the concrete work yet | 22:38 |
| gabrielhurley | I've found the key to be to separate the problem spaces between the day-to-day "I need to operate in this context" and the very infrequent "I need to change something about my contexts" | 22:38 |
| lblanchard | yeah, I think writing out the use cases would be really helpful | 22:38 |
| lblanchard | and which persona would be performing them... | 22:38 |
| gabrielhurley | finding the right UX metaphor for "operating in a context" and "changing contexts" is a fun challenge | 22:39 |
| lblanchard | haha | 22:39 |
| julim | I'm happy to help with the use cases | 22:39 |
| gabrielhurley | s/changing/switching | 22:39 |
| julim | just need better to understand what problem we're trying to solve... | 22:39 |
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| david-lyle | thanks julim | 22:39 |
| julim | np david-lyle | 22:40 |
| gabrielhurley | it's also interesting to think about how you would do this on a touch device, because those spacial/gestural metaphors are useful in thinking about this problem | 22:40 |
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| lblanchard | gabrielhurley: yeah, we were just talking to other day about mobile support…I responded to a blueprint a few weeks back but haven't seen much action on the Horizon mobile BP | 22:41 |
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| lblanchard | gabrielhurley: but in general it would be great to know what a user would do from a mobile device…research needed! | 22:42 |
| david-lyle | did the assignee/proposer make any contact after the summit? | 22:42 |
| gabrielhurley | david-lyle: once, early on, but that was about it | 22:43 |
| gabrielhurley | they vanished pretty quick | 22:43 |
| david-lyle | ahh, that's what I feared, large task | 22:43 |
| jcoufal | gabrielhurley: touch devices are definitely interesting challenge, on the other hand, I think that more important would be to increase UX of dashboard in general, we can keep touch devices in mind | 22:43 |
| gabrielhurley | yep. I'm actually trying to recruit my good friend at Piston to do some work in making Horizon's stylesheets responsive | 22:44 |
| jcoufal | but we won't hit that much audience with touch devices as we can touch with classic UI improvements | 22:44 |
| david-lyle | +1 | 22:44 |
| gabrielhurley | jcoufal, lblanchard: my intention there was not to suggest that we should be building *for* touch devices, but to suggest that spatial metaphors are good for representing context switches, and touch devices are an easy touch-point (no pun intended) for that mindset. | 22:45 |
| lblanchard | gabrielhurley: understood. Sorry it got me off on a tangent :) | 22:45 |
| gabrielhurley | no worries | 22:45 |
| gabrielhurley | mobile is also a great UX challenge | 22:45 |
| jcoufal | gabrielhurley: right, that's true | 22:45 |
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| jcoufal | sorry for missunderstanding | 22:46 |
| gabrielhurley | all good | 22:46 |
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| gabrielhurley | okay. anything else? | 22:49 |
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| gabrielhurley | cool! I'm gonna go write release notes. | 22:51 |
| gabrielhurley | When next we talk we'll be looking at Icehouse | 22:51 |
| gabrielhurley | have a great week! | 22:51 |
| lsmola | cool | 22:51 |
| gabrielhurley | #endmeeting | 22:51 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 22:51 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Oct 1 22:51:41 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 22:51 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/horizon/2013/horizon.2013-10-01-22.01.html | 22:51 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/horizon/2013/horizon.2013-10-01-22.01.txt | 22:51 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/horizon/2013/horizon.2013-10-01-22.01.log.html | 22:51 |
| david-lyle | Thanks everyone | 22:51 |
| lsmola | thank you, good night everybody | 22:52 |
| julim | thank you all. have a good evening. | 22:52 |
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| lblanchard | thanks all!! | 22:53 |
| jcoufal | thanks! _o/ | 22:54 |
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