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| zynzel | c | 05:55 |
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| annegentle | Ok, who's here for the doc team meeting? | 13:00 |
| EmilienM | o/ | 13:01 |
| annegentle | raise your hands, er slashes high! | 13:01 |
| annegentle | #startmeeting DocTeamMeeting | 13:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Aug 28 13:01:21 2013 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is annegentle. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 13:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 13:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: DocTeamMeeting)" | 13:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'docteammeeting' | 13:01 |
| annegentle | #topic Action items from last week | 13:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Action items from last week (Meeting topic: DocTeamMeeting)" | 13:01 | |
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| annegentle | roadnick to meet with Kersten to help through the WADL journey | 13:02 |
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| annegentle | Nick emailed his regrets that he couldn't attend so I don't know the status. | 13:02 |
| *** radez_g0n3 is now known as radez | 13:02 | |
| annegentle | annegentle codify our reviewing policies - done | 13:02 |
| annegentle | I do need to add that we don't require a bug for each patch submitted | 13:02 |
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| annegentle | #action annegentle to clarify for reviewing policy whether we require a bug per patch | 13:03 |
| annegentle | Next action, sgordon propose more often meetings on -docs Mailing List - done. | 13:03 |
| *** writerDiane is now known as dianefleming | 13:03 | |
| annegentle | Though sgordon is still out this week | 13:03 |
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| annegentle | But, the ical feed is updated to every other Tuesday, we're just here this morning because a few of us missed it yesterday so I rescheduled. | 13:03 |
| annegentle | #topic Docs Boot Camp Sept 9-10 | 13:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Docs Boot Camp Sept 9-10 (Meeting topic: DocTeamMeeting)" | 13:03 | |
| *** slong_ is now known as summerLong | 13:03 | |
| EmilienM | annegentle: the meeting time stays wed 1pm UTC ? | 13:04 |
| annegentle | EmilienM: nope goes back to Tues | 13:04 |
| annegentle | EmilienM: this is a one-time move | 13:04 |
| annegentle | for this week | 13:04 |
| annegentle | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Docs_Bootcamp_2013 | 13:04 |
| annegentle | We have nearly 25 people signed up. Great turnout. | 13:04 |
| annegentle | The wiki page has instructions for what you should have set up on your laptop. | 13:05 |
| annegentle | The schedule is shaping up to be half learn/labs, half unconference where we put up a board for future discussions. | 13:05 |
| *** nmiller is now known as nerminamiller | 13:05 | |
| annegentle | Mirantis is taping the sessions and we'll post after camp. | 13:05 |
| annegentle | Any questions on Docs Boot Camp? | 13:06 |
| *** radez is now known as radez_g0n3 | 13:06 | |
| nerminamiller | annegentle: are all listed installs applicable to all attendees? | 13:06 |
| annegentle | welcome nerminamiller and summerLong! | 13:06 |
| summerLong | hi! | 13:06 |
| nerminamiller | hi! | 13:06 |
| annegentle | nerminamiller: good question. I would consider the autodoc and publican to be optional | 13:06 |
| annegentle | off the top of my head | 13:07 |
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| nerminamiller | thanks | 13:07 |
| annegentle | I'm getting excited to come to California | 13:07 |
| annegentle | figuring out lunch, dinner, entertainment. | 13:08 |
| annegentle | Ok on to | 13:08 |
| annegentle | #topic Admin guides | 13:08 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Admin guides (Meeting topic: DocTeamMeeting)" | 13:08 | |
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| annegentle | I put this on there just to let people know the latest for the four we're parting out, and to see how a larger one looks. | 13:08 |
| annegentle | Block Storage is already done, config moved to config, install to install. | 13:09 |
| annegentle | Object Storage is in progress. | 13:09 |
| annegentle | Compute Admin is pretty well parted out to user guide and config guide but more work needs to be done to delete outdated content. | 13:09 |
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| annegentle | Network Admin Guide hasn't been pieced out but I did talk to emagana about what goes where. | 13:10 |
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| annegentle | nerminamiller: how's the larger guide looking? | 13:10 |
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| annegentle | nerminamiller: I haven't looked at the outline again since last week | 13:10 |
| nerminamiller | annegentle: the matchup with the blueprint is almost done. | 13:11 |
| nerminamiller | i took it offline to work on it. | 13:11 |
| nerminamiller | hope to replace it by cob today. | 13:11 |
| annegentle | nerminamiller: okie | 13:11 |
| annegentle | nerminamiller: are you thinking the Compute Admin guide "becomes" the OpenStack Admin guide? | 13:11 |
| nerminamiller | also considering merge with ops guide. will propose in more detail in the blueprint. | 13:11 |
| annegentle | nerminamiller: or should I just wait for the blueprint :) | 13:12 |
| nerminamiller | re: compute = yes | 13:12 |
| annegentle | nerminamiller: ok good-o | 13:12 |
| summerLong | And don't touch compute until you're done... | 13:12 |
| summerLong | Just hit something with quotas... | 13:12 |
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| annegentle | summerLong: oh it'll merge! :) | 13:12 |
| annegentle | summerLong: I think | 13:12 |
| annegentle | summerLong: so who shouldn't touch compute | 13:13 |
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| nerminamiller | not touching a thing :) | 13:13 |
| summerLong | But the question is whether quota info will remain? | 13:13 |
| annegentle | summerLong: oh yes it needs a home | 13:13 |
| summerLong | Is in admin user guide already. | 13:13 |
| annegentle | summerLong: quotas and rate limiting I've seen in config ref too though, it's configuration. | 13:13 |
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| summerLong | Am doing xi includes from admin gd into project admin guides? | 13:14 |
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| annegentle | summerLong: the idea is to make the project admin guides super small so that they could be xi:included into a larger admin guide (I think, correct me if that's wrong) | 13:15 |
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| annegentle | summerLong: quota configuration is already out of the compute admin guide on the master branch | 13:15 |
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| annegentle | summerLong: and into the config ref | 13:15 |
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| annegentle | summerLong: is that crazy making? | 13:16 |
| summerLong | Hmm, definitely | 13:17 |
| annegentle | summerLong: oh dear | 13:17 |
| summerLong | Is now everywhere. It's in the admin user guide already. Had finished chapters on those (updated) | 13:17 |
| summerLong | No problem with it not being in the project guides of course. | 13:18 |
| annegentle | summerLong: if it's modular it's easy to move right | 13:18 |
| summerLong | Yes. | 13:18 |
| annegentle | summerLong: ohhhh right the admin user guide | 13:18 |
| annegentle | summerLong: yes it makes sense for quota setting to be in there | 13:18 |
| annegentle | summerLong: nerminamiller is outlining yet another admin guide | 13:18 |
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| annegentle | summerLong: so what you've done should stay, yes. | 13:18 |
| annegentle | this kind of confusion is what I'm afraid of | 13:18 |
| summerLong | yes, the 'system' admin guide. | 13:19 |
| annegentle | but -- I think there's good reason for an admin user guide | 13:19 |
| summerLong | But would be good to have consistent info across guides. | 13:19 |
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| annegentle | nerminamiller: be sure to read what is in the admin user guide | 13:19 |
| annegentle | summerLong: yes | 13:19 |
| nerminamiller | will do | 13:19 |
| summerLong | And I'll take a look at the config ref? | 13:19 |
| annegentle | so. Admin User Guide = Covers user tasks performed through the dashboard and CLIs for admin users. | 13:19 |
| nerminamiller | i'm looking at the ops as well | 13:19 |
| annegentle | Administration Guide = Covers system administration tasks like maintaining, monitoring, and customizing an initially installed system. Could also be called "Cloud Administration Guide." | 13:20 |
| annegentle | I'm using shortened titles which is bad. | 13:20 |
| annegentle | Sorry y'all. | 13:20 |
| annegentle | summerLong: the config ref has quota info in it now, about how to configure, so do try to consolidate as needed. | 13:20 |
| annegentle | summerLong: good catch | 13:20 |
| summerLong | Ok, will do. | 13:20 |
| annegentle | We could also call the Admin User Guide the User Guide for Administrators. | 13:21 |
| annegentle | Ok any more questions | 13:21 |
| annegentle | on Admin Guides in all their glory? | 13:21 |
| dianefleming | yes, i had a question about name for user guide for admins - the title | 13:21 |
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| annegentle | dianefleming: sure | 13:21 |
| dianefleming | what do people prefer 1) Admin User Guide 2) User Guide for Administrators | 13:22 |
| dianefleming | I'm currently calling the regular User Guide -> End User Guide, but I could shorten to "User Guide" | 13:22 |
| dianefleming | so we would have User Guide and User Guide for Administrators | 13:22 |
| annegentle | Hm... thinking | 13:22 |
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| dianefleming | we can discuss on docs list later - just throwing it out there | 13:23 |
| summerLong | Sort of liked the earlier pairing of End User and Admin User guides. | 13:23 |
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| annegentle | dianefleming: yeah it's a good question - I like Admin User Guide but I like shorter titles. | 13:23 |
| brucer | Hm, I thnk having a guide name that is a subset of another guide name not such a good idea. | 13:23 |
| dianefleming | I'm fine with End User Guide and Admin User Guide | 13:24 |
| nerminamiller | poll users? | 13:24 |
| annegentle | brucer: so no "User Guide for Administrators" | 13:24 |
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| dianefleming | @brucer don't know what you mean | 13:24 |
| brucer | yeh, rather Admin UG and End UG | 13:24 |
| nerminamiller | agree with brucer | 13:25 |
| dianefleming | that's fine - I'll do that | 13:25 |
| annegentle | dianefleming: ok good, you can definitely tell the ML and then if anyone hollers we'd reconsider but I think Admin UG and End UG | 13:25 |
| annegentle | #agreed Admin User Guide and End User Guide titles | 13:25 |
| annegentle | ok, moving along | 13:25 |
| annegentle | #topic Install guides | 13:25 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Install guides (Meeting topic: DocTeamMeeting)" | 13:25 | |
| annegentle | shaunm: I won't put you on the spot but I'll report what I know and you can chime in | 13:26 |
| shaunm | ok | 13:26 |
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| annegentle | After several weeks trying to get some hardware from Cisco only to find out it is VMS they give out in their lab, shaunm is going to rig laptops for testing install instructions | 13:26 |
| annegentle | basically, a laptop with a USB > Ethernet NIC added on works well for a 2 NIC "server" | 13:27 |
| annegentle | it's what the Rackspace training group uses for portability | 13:27 |
| annegentle | shaunm: you can add any other updates you have | 13:27 |
| annegentle | There have been continual patches to the install guides | 13:29 |
| shaunm | that's about it | 13:29 |
| annegentle | even one came in yesterday that I'll backport to grizzly | 13:29 |
| annegentle | shaunm: are you going to submit a patch this week? | 13:29 |
| annegentle | shaunm: with a consolidated install guide? | 13:29 |
| shaunm | yes, though probably not complete | 13:30 |
| annegentle | shaunm: sure. | 13:31 |
| annegentle | The install architectures are at https://etherpad.openstack.org/havanainstall | 13:31 |
| annegentle | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/havanainstall | 13:31 |
| annegentle | any questions on install? | 13:31 |
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| annegentle | Ok, going to translation | 13:32 |
| annegentle | #topic Translation builds | 13:32 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Translation builds (Meeting topic: DocTeamMeeting)" | 13:32 | |
| annegentle | we do have a reply from daisy on the mailing list | 13:32 |
| annegentle | sounds like they'd need a tools directory for each repository so that translated files can be sliced and built | 13:33 |
| annegentle | Sounds like we still have work to do. | 13:33 |
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| annegentle | I'm also working with Todd Morey, a designer at the Foundation, to ensure we do a good job with other-language landing pages for docs. | 13:33 |
| annegentle | Any questions on translation builds? | 13:34 |
| summerLong | How many languages will be supported? | 13:34 |
| summerLong | Ok, silly question. | 13:34 |
| summerLong | How long is a piece of string. | 13:34 |
| annegentle | summerLong: Long story, but basically we have the Ops Guide in Chinese and Japanese now | 13:35 |
| annegentle | summerLong: heh | 13:35 |
| annegentle | summerLong: well, yes, and also, the po files are available on Transifex for many many languages | 13:35 |
| annegentle | summerLong: but we have 2 now | 13:35 |
| nerminamiller | plans for any other languages? | 13:35 |
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| annegentle | nerminamiller: you say "plans" :) | 13:36 |
| nerminamiller | :) | 13:36 |
| annegentle | nerminamiller: if you look at https://www.transifex.com/projects/p/openstack-manuals-i18n/resources/ | 13:36 |
| annegentle | nerminamiller: you can see that there are five full translations of the API Quick Start | 13:36 |
| annegentle | Chinese, Russian, Korean, Portuguese, Vietnamese | 13:37 |
| annegentle | Those are some of the most active language communities | 13:37 |
| annegentle | But, that's also a very small guide. | 13:37 |
| annegentle | Every Summit, we talk about their plans, I'm not saying it's not planned, just saying it's a huge coordination effort | 13:37 |
| annegentle | and we try to enable as much as we can | 13:37 |
| annegentle | while not slowing down English content dev. | 13:38 |
| annegentle | Does that help? | 13:38 |
| nerminamiller | thanks | 13:38 |
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| annegentle | Any more questions on Translation? It's good for us all to know about the moving pieces and parts. | 13:38 |
| annegentle | Ok, onward | 13:39 |
| annegentle | #topic Bugs and DocImpact | 13:39 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Bugs and DocImpact (Meeting topic: DocTeamMeeting)" | 13:39 | |
| annegentle | #link https://launchpad.net/openstack-api-site/+milestone/havana | 13:39 |
| annegentle | #link https://launchpad.net/openstack-manuals/+milestone/havana | 13:39 |
| annegentle | I don't put this topic at the bottom of the agenda to de-emphasize its importance :) | 13:40 |
| annegentle | There are 217 bugs targeted for admin/config/end users, and 72 targeted for API docs. | 13:40 |
| annegentle | These are serious numbers. | 13:40 |
| annegentle | We've done a great job getting the info and making it into data with DocImpact. | 13:40 |
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| annegentle | So keep looking at what you can do for doc bug fixes. | 13:41 |
| annegentle | And, recruit the dev who put DocImpact in the commit message to write docs. | 13:41 |
| EmilienM | +1 | 13:41 |
| EmilienM | it's a matter of education :) | 13:41 |
| annegentle | EmilienM: yep, and coaching to help them find the right place to put it now that we've done a lot of moving around. | 13:42 |
| EmilienM | sure | 13:42 |
| annegentle | There are a lot of Fix Released on that list too | 13:42 |
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| dianefleming | I'll try to knock out some of the api-site ones | 13:42 |
| annegentle | dianefleming: ok thanks | 13:42 |
| nerminamiller | i'll commit to some this week as well | 13:42 |
| annegentle | There are only 5 or 6 Triaged so even if all you can do is put a comment saying what to do to fix the bug, that's a help | 13:43 |
| dianefleming | sure | 13:43 |
| dianefleming | will do | 13:43 |
| annegentle | Triaged means someone else can fix the bug with the info in the comments. | 13:43 |
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| annegentle | Ok! Shall we go to Open Discussion? | 13:43 |
| annegentle | #topic Open discussion | 13:43 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: DocTeamMeeting)" | 13:43 | |
| EmilienM | I would like to talk about openstack-ha guide | 13:43 |
| EmilienM | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/openstack-manuals/+spec/improve-high-availability-support | 13:43 |
| EmilienM | #link http://docs.openstack.org/trunk/openstack-ha/ | 13:43 |
| EmilienM | I did not make a good progress this summer, but I'm on it right now. | 13:43 |
| EmilienM | I'm currently working on https://bugs.launchpad.net/openstack-manuals/+bug/1196099 | 13:43 |
| EmilienM | to bring neutron dhcp agent in HA, the doc is already here : | 13:43 |
| annegentle | EmilienM: go ahead | 13:43 |
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| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1196099 in openstack-manuals "openstack-ha guide / Active-Active section: Miss Network section " [Wishlist,Confirmed] | 13:43 |
| EmilienM | #link http://docs.openstack.org/trunk/openstack-network/admin/content/demo_multiple_operation.html | 13:43 |
| EmilienM | my question is: can I give basic explaining and redirect to the neutron doc ? | 13:43 |
| EmilienM | :) | 13:43 |
| annegentle | EmilienM: have you asked emagana if he's good with that? He's our doc liaison for Neutron | 13:44 |
| annegentle | EmilienM: does the Neutron doc have HA info? | 13:44 |
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| EmilienM | annegentle: I know him, I'm going to ping him | 13:44 |
| annegentle | EmilienM: ok, good. | 13:44 |
| EmilienM | annegentle: as I say, yes; for DHCP only. | 13:44 |
| annegentle | EmilienM: also is it known how to make neutron HA? | 13:44 |
| annegentle | EmilienM: oh ok. | 13:44 |
| EmilienM | my second thing where I need help is that neutron does not provide yet active / active HA for some agents. You can run them by active / passive using Pacemaker / Corosync. So what I plan to do, is to write it in the active / passive sections, and document active / active in explaining that it's not supported yet, but they can have HA with active / passive (and refer to the AP section). | 13:45 |
| EmilienM | Make sense ? | 13:45 |
| annegentle | EmilienM: what is your sense of whether multi-host will make it into havana for neutron? | 13:45 |
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| EmilienM | annegentle: multihost is only for DHCP afik | 13:45 |
| annegentle | EmilienM: Yes, I think it's best to indicate where active/active is NOT available | 13:45 |
| annegentle | EmilienM: ok | 13:45 |
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| EmilienM | annegentle: L3, metadata, lbaas aren't scalable yet | 13:45 |
| EmilienM | ok. | 13:46 |
| annegentle | EmilienM: ok, and L3 is nearly always what users are after it would seem | 13:46 |
| EmilienM | everything is fine for me, let's go to work now :) | 13:46 |
| annegentle | EmilienM: sweet | 13:46 |
| EmilienM | thx annegentle | 13:46 |
| annegentle | I wanted to point out a Marketing portal is available | 13:46 |
| annegentle | #link http://www.openstack.org/marketing | 13:46 |
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| annegentle | Also I'm attending once-monthly content meetings with Foundation staff, went to the first one last week. | 13:46 |
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| annegentle | Discussing what content needs created, prioritizing it and finding resources. | 13:47 |
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| annegentle | Last week was a chance to get to know each other, there were mostly company reps. | 13:47 |
| annegentle | We should be getting first-run tshirts at docs boot camp, woo | 13:48 |
| annegentle | I think that's it! Anyone else? | 13:48 |
| sarob | Nope | 13:48 |
| annegentle | sarob: lurk! | 13:48 |
| annegentle | :) | 13:48 |
| sarob | ;) | 13:49 |
| annegentle | Ok take back 11 minutes of your day! | 13:49 |
| annegentle | #endmeeting | 13:49 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 13:49 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Aug 28 13:49:10 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 13:49 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/docteammeeting/2013/docteammeeting.2013-08-28-13.01.html | 13:49 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/docteammeeting/2013/docteammeeting.2013-08-28-13.01.txt | 13:49 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/docteammeeting/2013/docteammeeting.2013-08-28-13.01.log.html | 13:49 |
| EmilienM | good day all ! | 13:49 |
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| EmilienM | annegentle: next meeting on next tuesday ? | 13:49 |
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| annegentle | EmilienM: So, the next meeting time would be during boot camp. | 13:50 |
| annegentle | https://www.google.com/calendar/ical/bj05mroquq28jhud58esggqmh4@group.calendar.google.com/public/basic.ics | 13:50 |
| EmilienM | nice | 13:50 |
| annegentle | EmilienM: Sept. 8th. | 13:50 |
| EmilienM | enjoy the boot camp ! | 13:50 |
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| annegentle | EmilienM: I'll send a note out to the mailing list -- good reminder! Thanks. | 13:50 |
| EmilienM | :) | 13:50 |
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| rkukura | hello | 14:00 |
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| sukhdev | good morning | 14:01 |
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| rkukura | lets get started | 14:01 |
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| rkukura | #startmeeting networking_ml2 | 14:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Aug 28 14:01:54 2013 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is rkukura. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 14:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 14:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: networking_ml2)" | 14:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'networking_ml2' | 14:01 |
| rkukura | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/ML2 Agenda | 14:02 |
| rkukura | mestery is on vacation, so I'll do my best to run the meeting | 14:02 |
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| rkukura | who do we have? | 14:03 |
| rcurran | rcurran | 14:03 |
| apech | apech | 14:03 |
| sukhdev | sukhdev | 14:03 |
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| rkukura | #topic Blueprints | 14:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Blueprints (Meeting topic: networking_ml2)" | 14:04 | |
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| rkukura | BP implementation proposal deadline was last Friday | 14:04 |
| rkukura | BP implementation merge deadline is end-of-day next Tuesday, August 3rd | 14:05 |
| rkukura | There were a couple of recent ML2 merges: | 14:05 |
| rkukura | https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/1196963 | 14:05 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1196963 in neutron "Update the OVS agent code to program tunnels using ports instead of tunnel IDs" [Wishlist,Fix committed] | 14:05 |
| rkukura | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/43678/ | 14:06 |
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| rkukura | the above is: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/neutron/+spec/ml2-mechanism-driver-subnet-calls | 14:06 |
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| rkukura | So we now have the subnet-related calls on mechanism drivers, thanks to Zng MingJie | 14:07 |
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| apech | great! | 14:08 |
| sukhdev | it seems it changes the context in the calls to mech drivers | 14:08 |
| rkukura | This merge also added @property to the context class property calls | 14:08 |
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| rkukura | sukhdev: Right. Hopefully this isn't too much of a problem for the drivers currently in review. | 14:09 |
| rkukura | It does require rebasing them, and removing the "()" from usage of the properties. | 14:09 |
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| sukhdev | sounds good | 14:10 |
| rkukura | Anything else related to recent merges? | 14:10 |
| rkukura | So we now have 5 BPs in review targeting H-3, and a few other things we should track | 14:11 |
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| rkukura | https://blueprints.launchpad.net/quantum/+spec/ml2-portbinding is in review at https://review.openstack.org/#/c/43129/ | 14:12 |
| rkukura | I've gotten some good feedback from reviews, and will post an updated patch very soon today rebasing and addressing the nits | 14:13 |
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| rkukura | I'll need a bit more time to resolve a couple more significant items: | 14:14 |
| rkukura | DB migration and duplication among the agent-based mech drivers were both identified in the reviews | 14:14 |
| sukhdev | I created a bug to integrate with this after the merge | 14:15 |
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| rkukura | I also discovered at the last minute that the hyperv-agent does not yet implement the agents-db functionality, so it seems we should add that, or not claim to support hyperv | 14:15 |
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| rkukura | any thoughts on hyperv? | 14:16 |
| rcurran | no | 14:16 |
| sukhdev | no | 14:16 |
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| rkukura | I'm going to try to get one of its developers to test it with ml2. | 14:17 |
| rkukura | Other main portbinding issue is how to get the host-id for ports of L3, DHCP, etc. agents? | 14:17 |
| rkukura | Seems cleanest to have those agents set binding:host_id when they create/update their ports | 14:18 |
| sukhdev | yes, we need host-id for dhcp | 14:18 |
| sukhdev | presently, there is no host-id when a dhcp call is invoked | 14:19 |
| rkukura | the alternative is for the RPC code to take the agent-id and look it up in the agents-db to find the agent's host | 14:19 |
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| rkukura | any preferences between these approaches, or other ideas? | 14:19 |
| sukhdev | cleaner will be if it provided via port context to mech drivers | 14:19 |
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| rkukura | sukhdev: in either approach it would be in the port dictionary as binding:host_id | 14:20 |
| rkukura | anything else on ml2-portbinding? | 14:21 |
| sukhdev | ah OK - in that case I OK with either approach | 14:21 |
| rkukura | OK | 14:22 |
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| rkukura | mestery posted implementation of https://blueprints.launchpad.net/neutron/+spec/ml2-multi-segment-api | 14:23 |
| rkukura | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/43569/ | 14:23 |
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| rkukura | has anyone had a chance to look at this in detail yet? | 14:23 |
| apech | not yet | 14:24 |
| rcurran | no | 14:24 |
| sukhdev | no | 14:25 |
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| rkukura | Lets try to get him some feedback before he's back online, which I think will be sometime later this week | 14:25 |
| sukhdev | he is back on 9/3 | 14:26 |
| rkukura | Anything else on multi-segment-api? | 14:26 |
| apech | general question - what's the cutoff date for all changes? | 14:26 |
| rkukura | sukhdev: I got the impression he may be available to update this before then, but I'm not sure | 14:26 |
| apech | we have a few significant blueprints coming in that will change our mechanism drivers | 14:26 |
| apech | trying to understand our timeline | 14:26 |
| rkukura | I believe the BP implementations need to be merged by end-of-day 9/3 - next Tuesday. | 14:27 |
| rcurran | lot of balls in the air between now and then | 14:28 |
| rkukura | There will still be opportunity for bug fixes, so if drivers needs additional updates to support multiple segments, that could be done after 9/3 | 14:28 |
| rkukura | rcurran: agreed | 14:28 |
| apech | ok got it | 14:29 |
| rkukura | but I don't think 5 merges is unreasonable with 3 of them being drivers that shouldn't effect other merges | 14:29 |
| rcurran | glad to read to state that :-) | 14:29 |
| rkukura | So lets discuss https://blueprints.launchpad.net/neutron/+spec/arista-ml2-mechanism-driver | 14:30 |
| rkukura | lhttps://review.openstack.org/#/c/41213/ | 14:30 |
| rkukura | link: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/41213/ | 14:31 |
| sukhdev | I sent out an email yesterday in response to your comments | 14:31 |
| rkukura | sukhdev: and I tried to summarize that in the agenda | 14:31 |
| sukhdev | does that sound reasonable? | 14:31 |
| rkukura | I think so | 14:31 |
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| rkukura | We need to document that single physical network limitation in the README and wiki | 14:32 |
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| sukhdev | Did you look at the wiki, I mentioned this in the overview section | 14:32 |
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| sukhdev | will mention in the readme as well | 14:32 |
| rkukura | I took a quick look - must have missed it - sorry | 14:33 |
| rkukura | great | 14:33 |
| sukhdev | So, I will upload a new patch which will rebase based upon the latest merge and new readme file - but, no other changes - are you OK with that? | 14:34 |
| rkukura | I think the redundant DB state is justified for now, given that there is no reasonable way to sync state without it, but we should look for a good general solution for this in icehouse | 14:34 |
| sukhdev | I agree | 14:34 |
| rkukura | sukhdev: I'm OK with that, as long as all review issues have been addressed | 14:34 |
| sukhdev | I have addressed all other issues | 14:35 |
| sukhdev | unless - a new one pops up :-) | 14:35 |
| rkukura | sukhdev: It woudn't hurt to include some of the email text in the review so others can see | 14:35 |
| rkukura | Seems the Arista driver is on track to merge - anything else on this? | 14:36 |
| rkukura | Next is the Cisco Nexus driver | 14:36 |
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| rkukura | link: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/quantum/+spec/ml2-md-cisco-nexus | 14:36 |
| rcurran | 2nd patch went up friday | 14:36 |
| rkukura | link: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/43196/ | 14:36 |
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| rcurran | still had an issue w/ one of the UTs | 14:36 |
| rcurran | i think this has been fixed (rkukura: has dane leblanc reached out to you?) | 14:37 |
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| rkukura | rcurran: not that I recall | 14:37 |
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| rcurran | ok, that may be coming ... he was having an issue that may require an update to core ml2 code | 14:38 |
| rcurran | regarding db duplication | 14:38 |
| rkukura | rcurran: is that related to the UT failure? | 14:38 |
| rcurran | yes | 14:38 |
| rcurran | dane is working on ml2 cisco nexus ut | 14:38 |
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| rkukura | OK, so hopefully we can work through this quickly and get an updated patch set | 14:39 |
| rcurran | yes | 14:39 |
| rcurran | db duplication | 14:39 |
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| rcurran | you'll see this in the ml2 cisco nexus driver also. this is because the code is mostly a port from the current plugins/cisco | 14:40 |
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| rcurran | i think we decided a while ago that plugins/ml2 drivers shouldn't import modules from another plugin | 14:40 |
| rkukura | rcurran: OK, so this is code duplication with the cisco plugin? | 14:41 |
| rcurran | but because cisco doesn't want to supprot duplicate code we'll thinking in the icehouse timeframe to have the cisco plugin import the ml2 code | 14:41 |
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| rcurran | eventurally (if all goes as planned) the plugin/cisco code gets deprecated and we only have ml2 left | 14:41 |
| rcurran | we can then clean up the duplicated db stuff | 14:42 |
| rkukura | sounds good to me - a README on the cisco driver would be helpful, especially setting expectations relative to the cisco plugin | 14:42 |
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| rkukura | README/wiki | 14:42 |
| rcurran | yeah, i saw that comment coming :-) | 14:42 |
| rkukura | I'll definitely review the upcoming patch | 14:43 |
| rkukura | anything else on this one? | 14:43 |
| rkukura | So Tail-f is next | 14:43 |
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| rkukura | link: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/quantum/+spec/tailf-ncs | 14:44 |
| rkukura | link: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/37647/ | 14:44 |
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| rkukura | Is Luke here? | 14:46 |
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| rkukura | This needs to be rebased and a couple nits fixed | 14:48 |
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| rkukura | I haven't looked this too closely, but will. It seems to be on track | 14:48 |
| rkukura | anything else on tail-f? | 14:49 |
| rkukura | has anyone been tracking the PXE work? | 14:50 |
| rkukura | link: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/neutron/+spec/pxeboot-ports | 14:50 |
| rkukura | link: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/30441/ | 14:50 |
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| rkukura | This adds an extension to openvswitch, and I had commented a while back that it should address ml2 as well | 14:51 |
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| rkukura | dkehn: Are you online? | 14:51 |
| dkehn | yes | 14:51 |
| rkukura | Are you planning to add ml2 support to the PXE boot patch? | 14:52 |
| dkehn | yes, agreed on the ml2, what markmcclain and others have agreed upon is after the patch lands we will add ml2 support in | 14:52 |
| dkehn | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/30441/, see lifeless comments | 14:53 |
| rkukura | OK, I guess we can treat that as a bug fix and git it in H-3 | 14:53 |
| rkukura | Looks like the plan is to do that in icehouse | 14:53 |
| dkehn | correct | 14:54 |
| rkukura | I guess that will do, but we've been trying to keep parity with openvswitch so it can be deprecated | 14:56 |
| rkukura | dkehn: I may followup with you offline | 14:56 |
| dkehn | rkukura, sounds good | 14:57 |
| rkukura | Last BP items are devstack and documentation. Any updates on these? | 14:57 |
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| apech | I had volunteered to help, mestery was going to reach but I didn't hear anything | 14:59 |
| apech | reach out that is | 14:59 |
| rkukura | Lets focus on those, plus any bugs, next week then | 14:59 |
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| rkukura | feleouet doesn't seem to be online - anyone have any update on l2-population? | 15:00 |
| safchain | Hi | 15:00 |
| safchain | on my side I'll submit a new patch for l2population, with an implementation as Mechanism Driver | 15:00 |
| rkukura | safchain: I assume this will be targeting icehouse, right? | 15:01 |
| rkukura | Out time is up. Thanks everyone! | 15:01 |
| safchain | probably, but I'll do my best for H5 | 15:02 |
| safchain | H3 | 15:02 |
| sukhdev | thanks | 15:02 |
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| rkukura | OK, lets get these reviews and merges done | 15:02 |
| rkukura | #endmeeting | 15:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 15:02 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Aug 28 15:02:55 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 15:02 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/networking_ml2/2013/networking_ml2.2013-08-28-14.01.html | 15:02 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/networking_ml2/2013/networking_ml2.2013-08-28-14.01.txt | 15:02 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/networking_ml2/2013/networking_ml2.2013-08-28-14.01.log.html | 15:03 |
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| johnthetubaguy | #startmeeting: XenAPI | 15:03 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Aug 28 15:03:15 2013 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is johnthetubaguy. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 15:03 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 15:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: : XenAPI)" | 15:03 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to '__xenapi' | 15:03 |
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| BobBall | Morning | 15:04 |
| BobBall | I'm here | 15:04 |
| BobBall | Matel too | 15:04 |
| BobBall | Euan is at his desk and can be pulled in | 15:04 |
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| johnthetubaguy | sorry, I got the wrong name somehow | 15:04 |
| BobBall | Roll call over :) | 15:04 |
| johnthetubaguy | #endmeeting | 15:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 15:04 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Aug 28 15:04:32 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 15:04 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/__xenapi/2013/__xenapi.2013-08-28-15.03.html | 15:04 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/__xenapi/2013/__xenapi.2013-08-28-15.03.txt | 15:04 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/__xenapi/2013/__xenapi.2013-08-28-15.03.log.html | 15:04 |
| johnthetubaguy | #startmeeting XenAPI | 15:04 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Aug 28 15:04:40 2013 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is johnthetubaguy. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 15:04 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 15:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: XenAPI)" | 15:04 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'xenapi' | 15:04 |
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| johnthetubaguy | so, hello all | 15:04 |
| BobBall | Weird. | 15:04 |
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| johnthetubaguy | usual agenda OK for everyone? | 15:05 |
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| johnthetubaguy | nothing big from me, other people got things to discuss? | 15:05 |
| BobBall | yup | 15:05 |
| matel | uh | 15:05 |
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| johnthetubaguy | #topic actions from last meeting | 15:06 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "actions from last meeting (Meeting topic: XenAPI)" | 15:06 | |
| matel | I just updated my patches, and I am planning to look at other xenapi patches, maybe that helps for reviewers. | 15:06 |
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| johnthetubaguy | BobBall: did you look into that VDI.copy issue? | 15:06 |
| BobBall | do you mean whether we need safe_copy_vdi | 15:06 |
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| johnthetubaguy | yep | 15:07 |
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| BobBall | no - but one sec | 15:07 |
| BobBall | carry on with otehrs then I might have one! | 15:08 |
| johnthetubaguy | OK… will put down action for next time | 15:08 |
| johnthetubaguy | #action BobBall look into VDI.copy workaround and if it is still needed or not | 15:08 |
| johnthetubaguy | seems like its probably because of parallel VDI.copy or something like that | 15:08 |
| johnthetubaguy | anyways, moving on | 15:08 |
| johnthetubaguy | #topic Blueprints | 15:09 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Blueprints (Meeting topic: XenAPI)" | 15:09 | |
| johnthetubaguy | any news here | 15:09 |
| johnthetubaguy | matel: you said about patches | 15:09 |
| matel | yes. | 15:09 |
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| matel | I updated all patches related to https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/+spec/xenapi-supported-image-import-export | 15:10 |
| matel | What's the question? | 15:11 |
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| johnthetubaguy | ah, thats all | 15:11 |
| johnthetubaguy | cool | 15:11 |
| johnthetubaguy | no more for blueprints I guess | 15:12 |
| johnthetubaguy | #topic Docs | 15:12 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Docs (Meeting topic: XenAPI)" | 15:12 | |
| matel | Don't think so | 15:12 |
| johnthetubaguy | any docs updates | 15:12 |
| johnthetubaguy | ? | 15:12 |
| matel | I plan to finish the doc scanning this week. | 15:12 |
| matel | Need to look at where we are with the re-structure. | 15:12 |
| johnthetubaguy | cool | 15:13 |
| johnthetubaguy | good to get that looked over again | 15:13 |
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| matel | I think the main re-structure change has been merged, so that should not block. | 15:14 |
| johnthetubaguy | cool | 15:14 |
| johnthetubaguy | #topic Bugs and QA | 15:14 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Bugs and QA (Meeting topic: XenAPI)" | 15:14 | |
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| johnthetubaguy | any bug questions or QA updates? | 15:14 |
| matel | I kill a bug whenever I find one. | 15:14 |
| BobBall | I guess we should have a QA update | 15:15 |
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| BobBall | Smokestack has been struggling occasionally under the weight of reviews | 15:15 |
| BobBall | particularly the 4 XS hosts | 15:15 |
| johnthetubaguy | don't forget the xenserver tag, an I will triage the bug ASAPI | 15:15 |
| BobBall | In fact, for a short period, the XS jobs were disabled | 15:15 |
| matel | Are we adding more resources? | 15:15 |
| BobBall | I've prototyped a cloud-based XS installation | 15:15 |
| BobBall | which mostly works | 15:15 |
| matel | How beefy is the VM? | 15:16 |
| BobBall | although yesterday Dan raised a concern with one of the tests and I'm not sure if itw as a code issue or an infrastructure issue | 15:16 |
| BobBall | beefyish | 15:16 |
| BobBall | but the problem is CPU | 15:16 |
| BobBall | single CPU speed | 15:16 |
| johnthetubaguy | how much are you doing in a run? building the DomU? | 15:16 |
| BobBall | That can't be increased unfortunately so it does run slower (about 10 mins slower) in a VM in RAX cloud rather than hardware | 15:17 |
| BobBall | that's 30 minutes vs 20 | 15:17 |
| BobBall | No - this is just smokestack | 15:17 |
| BobBall | so not devstack at all | 15:17 |
| johnthetubaguy | ah, I guess thats to be expected for nested virt? | 15:17 |
| BobBall | perhaps yes | 15:17 |
| BobBall | but the real problem is that the virt is HVM and can't use PV drivers | 15:17 |
| johnthetubaguy | right, but that shouldn't hit CPU usage? | 15:18 |
| BobBall | because we can only use one xenstore (which must be for the nested VMs) therefore XS can't use PV disk/network | 15:18 |
| BobBall | so it's all emulated | 15:18 |
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| matel | 150% - I wasn't expecting this much overhead. | 15:18 |
| BobBall | hence using CPU :) | 15:18 |
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| johnthetubaguy | ah, OK, still a bit surprising high | 15:19 |
| matel | Should we try putting it to KVM? | 15:19 |
| BobBall | I've considered it, but I want to get it working right on Xen first | 15:19 |
| BobBall | since that's what we know | 15:19 |
| johnthetubaguy | lol, same issue on KVM I would guess? | 15:19 |
| BobBall | if we can push it to the HP cloud then that's based on KVM and we could use virtio to boost performance | 15:20 |
| matel | sure, I was just curious what would be the overhead there. | 15:20 |
| johnthetubaguy | ah, I see | 15:20 |
| BobBall | (I think) | 15:20 |
| BobBall | although that's more work than I've got time to do ATM | 15:20 |
| BobBall | and I don't have an HP account ;) | 15:20 |
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| johnthetubaguy | anyways, I guess running in Dom0 might be faster in that setup, because the inner VM is less hampered by performance? | 15:21 |
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| BobBall | ish | 15:22 |
| BobBall | but I think the real problem is Xen being HVM with no PV drivers | 15:22 |
| antonym | how large is the instance? | 15:22 |
| matel | Bob, 30 min is the test run, or it's the whole stuff with the setup? | 15:22 |
| johnthetubaguy | is it not because you are running rabbit and mysql inside a VM thats inside a VM? | 15:22 |
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| matel | would be nice to do some profiling to see what slows us down. | 15:23 |
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| johnthetubaguy | matel: +1 | 15:23 |
| BobBall | whole stuff | 15:23 |
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| matel | Bob: how much is the setup part, and how much time does the test run take? | 15:24 |
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| BobBall | I agree that'd be nice | 15:24 |
| BobBall | dunno :) | 15:24 |
| BobBall | only have the initial results from running it once yesterday | 15:24 |
| matel | How larg is the instance? | 15:24 |
| BobBall | 8GB | 15:24 |
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| BobBall | but you can get any instance size you like | 15:24 |
| antonym | so you have 4 vcpus at least | 15:24 |
| BobBall | sure - but most of the work is single threaded | 15:25 |
| antonym | yeah | 15:25 |
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| BobBall | I think | 15:25 |
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| BobBall | it's a shame dprince isn't online atm | 15:25 |
| BobBall | oh hang on | 15:25 |
| BobBall | maybe he is | 15:25 |
| dprince | BobBall: I'm here... just on a call. | 15:25 |
| BobBall | oh | 15:25 |
| BobBall | ok | 15:26 |
| johnthetubaguy | yeah, I suspect the work going on inside the DomU is really slowed down because its in a nested VM, which has super sucky performance | 15:26 |
| BobBall | but it shouldn't be | 15:26 |
| BobBall | don't forget it's running PV | 15:26 |
| BobBall | so it's only PV in one HVM container | 15:26 |
| BobBall | so CPU performance should be no worse than one HVM | 15:26 |
| BobBall | it doesn't need to trap the hypercalls etc (I think) | 15:27 |
| antonym | would it run better on certain versions of xs? | 15:27 |
| BobBall | Not sure - I'd need to ask about the version of Xen and whether it'd affect the pefromance nested | 15:28 |
| BobBall | but there may be things we can do - e.g. modifying smokestack to make less use of disk | 15:28 |
| antonym | if it does, we should be able to help resolve that | 15:28 |
| BobBall | yeah | 15:28 |
| BobBall | it's a bit rubbish if the real restriction is that we can't have Xen using PV drivers though... | 15:29 |
| antonym | at least it works :) should be able to optimize from there hopefully | 15:29 |
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| BobBall | and it's in the cloud - so we can just scale out, right? ;) | 15:29 |
| antonym | of course! | 15:29 |
| johnthetubaguy | http://www.slideshare.net/xen_com_mgr/nested-virtualization-update-from-intel | 15:30 |
| BobBall | Unfortunately one problem is that the gate is now running jobs in parallel | 15:30 |
| BobBall | so should be a lot faster | 15:30 |
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| johnthetubaguy | from those slides, looks like some recent work really helped | 15:31 |
| johnthetubaguy | not sure what version of Xen that maps to | 15:31 |
| matel | Slides are a year old. | 15:32 |
| BobBall | I'll look into that | 15:32 |
| matel | Read the comment :-) | 15:32 |
| BobBall | nice comment :) | 15:33 |
| antonym | heh | 15:33 |
| BobBall | Not sure if it'll help though - might be intel specific - we'll see. | 15:33 |
| BobBall | I'll investigate a bit | 15:33 |
| BobBall | gimme an action! | 15:33 |
| BobBall | brb. | 15:33 |
| johnthetubaguy | yes, good points | 15:33 |
| johnthetubaguy | it could be nested virt on AMD performance issues | 15:33 |
| johnthetubaguy | anyways, lets move onwards | 15:33 |
| matel | sure | 15:34 |
| johnthetubaguy | #topic Open Discussion | 15:34 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: XenAPI)" | 15:34 | |
| johnthetubaguy | any more things people want to cover? | 15:34 |
| johnthetubaguy | will wait for BobBall to return an confirm, I think he had something else | 15:34 |
| matel | Let's review each other's changes, that's all. | 15:34 |
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| johnthetubaguy | indeed, much reviewing to be done all around | 15:35 |
| BobBall | nothing else | 15:36 |
| BobBall | oh yes | 15:36 |
| BobBall | that's it | 15:36 |
| BobBall | reviews | 15:36 |
| BobBall | we need another core :) | 15:36 |
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| BobBall | changes with +2 should just be able to go in I hope | 15:36 |
| BobBall | I've got a few of them | 15:36 |
| BobBall | should I just add ppl to my review? or is there a better way to encourage them? | 15:36 |
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| matel | I guess everyone is busy these days. | 15:37 |
| johnthetubaguy | catch people on IRC I guess, but mostly I think people are working on the priority of the blueprints | 15:37 |
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| johnthetubaguy | I have lots of changes pending myself (14) | 15:37 |
| matel | yes, I will look at them | 15:38 |
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| BobBall | ok | 15:39 |
| BobBall | are we done then | 15:39 |
| matel | Cool, thanks. | 15:39 |
| johnthetubaguy | thanks all | 15:39 |
| johnthetubaguy | #endmeeting | 15:39 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 15:39 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Aug 28 15:39:44 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 15:39 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/xenapi/2013/xenapi.2013-08-28-15.04.html | 15:39 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/xenapi/2013/xenapi.2013-08-28-15.04.txt | 15:39 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/xenapi/2013/xenapi.2013-08-28-15.04.log.html | 15:39 |
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| jgriffith | Cinder?? | 16:02 |
| winston-d | hi | 16:02 |
| avishay | Cinder!! | 16:02 |
| jjacob512 | Hello | 16:02 |
| jgriffith | #start meeting cinder | 16:03 |
| winston-d | jjacob512: jacob from dell? | 16:03 |
| jjacob512 | yes! | 16:03 |
| jgriffith | #startmeeting cinder | 16:03 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Aug 28 16:03:15 2013 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is jgriffith. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 16:03 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 16:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: cinder)" | 16:03 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'cinder' | 16:03 |
| bswartz | jgriffith: every time | 16:03 |
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| kmartin | hello | 16:03 |
| jgriffith | bswartz: makes ya wonder if I do it on purpose :) | 16:03 |
| winston-d | jjacob512: good. thx for joining. | 16:03 |
| bswartz | I think you do | 16:03 |
| * jgriffith makes a note to submit a code change to IRC | 16:03 | |
| zhiyan | hi | 16:03 |
| jjacob512 | thanks | 16:03 |
| jgriffith | Ok, short agenda, but I'm sure we'll make up for it like we usually do: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/CinderMeetings | 16:04 |
| avishay | bswartz: wait till he tries to end the meeting... ;) | 16:04 |
| jgriffith | avishay: :) | 16:04 |
| jgriffith | #topic blueprints | 16:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "blueprints (Meeting topic: cinder)" | 16:04 | |
| bswartz | avishay: maybe we can modify the bot before the meeting ends | 16:04 |
| avishay | bswartz: :) | 16:04 |
| jgriffith | So I just wanted to give a heads up that for I release, I'm thinking we should go back to being pretty strict with our BP's | 16:05 |
| jgriffith | That means having *real* details of what the BP is | 16:05 |
| jgriffith | Including a specs page | 16:05 |
| jgriffith | and a user story etc | 16:05 |
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| jgriffith | guess jmh_ didn't like that | 16:05 |
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| avishay | haha | 16:06 |
| DuncanT- | ug, sorry I'm late | 16:06 |
| jgriffith | DuncanT-: you dind't miss much | 16:06 |
| jgriffith | That's all I had on that | 16:06 |
| avishay | Sounds good | 16:06 |
| jgriffith | It'll sort of fall into place when folks submit BP's | 16:06 |
| bswartz | jgriffith: I can't see any counter argument, other than laziness, so +1 | 16:07 |
| jgriffith | avishay: you ready? | 16:07 |
| jgriffith | bswartz: HA! | 16:07 |
| avishay | jgriffith: for? | 16:07 |
| DuncanT- | I'm a supporter, even if I'll probably be bitten by it | 16:07 |
| jgriffith | bswartz: indeed, I think that is the only counter | 16:07 |
| jgriffith | avishay: DOH! | 16:07 |
| jgriffith | I meant winston-d | 16:07 |
| winston-d | yup | 16:07 |
| jgriffith | avishay: sorry | 16:07 |
| jgriffith | #topic Feature submission exception | 16:08 |
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| *** openstack changes topic to "Feature submission exception (Meeting topic: cinder)" | 16:08 | |
| avishay | we're very similar in both name and appearance, i could understand the confusion | 16:08 |
| jgriffith | haha! | 16:08 |
| jgriffith | and a is really close to q | 16:08 |
| jgriffith | w | 16:08 |
| jgriffith | geeesh | 16:08 |
| avishay | :) | 16:08 |
| avishay | if you loop around, yes | 16:08 |
| jgriffith | I obviously can't type this morning | 16:08 |
| jgriffith | avishay: look at your keyboard :) | 16:08 |
| avishay | :) | 16:08 |
| winston-d | so jjacob512 recently submitted a patch/driver for Dell's back-end _after_ feature freeze. | 16:08 |
| jjacob512 | yes | 16:08 |
| jgriffith | winston-d: I've been talking with the Dell folks for a while on this | 16:09 |
| winston-d | jgriffith: ok | 16:09 |
| jgriffith | winston-d: I planned on granting the exception if there's no arguments from you or others | 16:09 |
| winston-d | im fine with that | 16:09 |
| jgriffith | cool | 16:09 |
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| jgriffith | Dell and VmWare were the two that talked to me last month | 16:09 |
| winston-d | the driver looks pretty simple for now. | 16:09 |
| avishay | it's OK | 16:09 |
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| avishay | the driver looks to be in decent shape, but exception handling was pretty non-existant if i remember correctly | 16:10 |
| DuncanT- | Does it make the minimum feature list for the release? | 16:10 |
| winston-d | if it was 5k+ LOC, i'll be hesitate | 16:10 |
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| kmartin | sounds good, as long as it has unit test and meets the feature list for H | 16:10 |
| jgriffith | Just to be clear, this isn't a review session | 16:10 |
| jgriffith | The question was just is it accepted for us to review | 16:10 |
| jjacob512 | yes , it does, also was able to test it on devstack | 16:10 |
| avishay | if it was 5K+ lines of code i'd -3 it :) | 16:10 |
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| * jgriffith wants a -3 button! | 16:11 | |
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| avishay | ok, so we let it through, ok by me | 16:11 |
| jgriffith | avishay: to be explicit, we review it! | 16:11 |
| jgriffith | avishay: we don't let it through :) | 16:11 |
| jungleboyj | :-) | 16:11 |
| kmartin | avishay: : you must really be special to get a -3 , what color is that X? | 16:11 |
| DuncanT- | I'm happy to review it, with a 'but be early next time' note | 16:11 |
| avishay | jgriffith: you know what i meant | 16:11 |
| jungleboyj | kmartin: It would have flames around it. | 16:11 |
| jgriffith | avishay: :) I did | 16:11 |
| jgriffith | flames! | 16:12 |
| jgriffith | nice! | 16:12 |
| avishay | kmartin: the patch gets deleted, and the user account destroyed and banned | 16:12 |
| jungleboyj | :-) | 16:12 |
| kmartin | avishay: nice | 16:12 |
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| jgriffith | winston-d: anything else? | 16:12 |
| * winston-d wants -3 button as well! | 16:12 | |
| jgriffith | winston-d: we're going to have to create one of those | 16:12 |
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| winston-d | jgriffith: nope, i guess that's the only exception? | 16:12 |
| jgriffith | DuncanT-: will get a -4 button | 16:13 |
| avishay | jgriffith: noooooo!! | 16:13 |
| winston-d | hah | 16:13 |
| jgriffith | winston-d: the only other one will be the retype patch if I get to it today :) | 16:13 |
| winston-d | -4 will destory gerrit? | 16:13 |
| DuncanT- | What does -4 do? Geolocate your IP and nuke from orbit? | 16:13 |
| kmartin | sounds like a summit topic "a flaming -3 button" | 16:13 |
| jungleboyj | 3d Burning X for -4? | 16:13 |
| avishay | OK, enough tomfoolery :) | 16:13 |
| jgriffith | winston-d: but yes, I believe everything is in, and I've given up on the local scheduling patch for this release | 16:13 |
| jgriffith | Who's Tom? | 16:13 |
| avishay | Any other meeting topics? | 16:13 |
| jgriffith | avishay: yes! | 16:14 |
| jgriffith | #topic reviews and rechecks | 16:14 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "reviews and rechecks (Meeting topic: cinder)" | 16:14 | |
| winston-d | jgriffith: retype, ok. let me knwo if you need help with scheduler | 16:14 |
| * jungleboyj is laughing | 16:14 | |
| jgriffith | Ok.... | 16:14 |
| jgriffith | so for those that don't read the ML | 16:14 |
| jgriffith | Please please please take the time to look at the output/console on failed jenkins and gate jobs | 16:14 |
| jgriffith | we're getting into a habbit of blindly typing "recheck no bug" | 16:15 |
| jgriffith | when there is clearly a failure | 16:15 |
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| jgriffith | and even worse I've noted a few cases this week where the failure was introduced by the patch | 16:15 |
| * winston-d hides | 16:15 | |
| jgriffith | it wasn't even an intermittent in tempest | 16:15 |
| jgriffith | also... note | 16:15 |
| jgriffith | I pushed an add of a check conf file is up to date | 16:16 |
| eharney | i'm very glad we have that now | 16:16 |
| jgriffith | If you started your branch more than a week or so ago you may want to rebase | 16:16 |
| jungleboyj | +2 | 16:16 |
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| jgriffith | and not only rebase, but actually run_tests.sh :) | 16:16 |
| jgriffith | if you need help with rebasing let me know, via IRC or email and I can help | 16:17 |
| bswartz | test before checking in? what are you, a QA guy? | 16:17 |
| jgriffith | bswartz: LOL | 16:17 |
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| jgriffith | Ok... | 16:17 |
| jgriffith | ummmm | 16:17 |
| jgriffith | I think that's about it for me | 16:18 |
| vincent_hou | add test cases for newly added public methods. | 16:18 |
| jgriffith | just give priority to the reviews that are up and have BP's targetted for H3 | 16:18 |
| jgriffith | we have 17 in review last I checked | 16:18 |
| jgriffith | vincent_hou: ? | 16:18 |
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| kmartin | sounds like a plan | 16:18 |
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| hemna | oh the sample conf is being generated and checked now like nova? | 16:18 |
| jgriffith | vincent_hou: that should be a given no? | 16:18 |
| eharney | re: review priority | 16:18 |
| jgriffith | eharney: yes? | 16:19 |
| eharney | is http://status.openstack.org/reviews/#cinder considered a somewhat useful list? (other than it lying about -1s and -2s) | 16:19 |
| avishay | jgriffith: sample conf is being generated automatically or only checked? | 16:19 |
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| jgriffith | eharney: hmm... personally I don't use that | 16:19 |
| eharney | it tries to prioritize them | 16:19 |
| eharney | yeah i just realized it was there recently | 16:19 |
| jgriffith | eharney: I just look at https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:open+cinder,n,z | 16:19 |
| avishay | eharney: it also lies about priorities because not all blueprints are properly scheduled | 16:19 |
| jgriffith | eharney: I don't trust parsers :) | 16:19 |
| eharney | avishay: ah. hrm. | 16:20 |
| avishay | i use what jgriffith uses | 16:20 |
| vincent_hou | jgriffith: I meant the patches to be submitted. | 16:20 |
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| jgriffith | vincent_hou: yeah, they shouldn't land without unit tests | 16:20 |
| jgriffith | Oh, I did have something else | 16:21 |
| jgriffith | 2 things actually | 16:21 |
| jgriffith | #topic volume ACL's | 16:21 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "volume ACL's (Meeting topic: cinder)" | 16:21 | |
| jgriffith | I thought we resolved this | 16:21 |
| jgriffith | but there was a discussion in my history this morning that would indicate otherwise | 16:21 |
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| jgriffith | so there are two patches for this: | 16:21 |
| zhiyan | jgriffith: i'm not sure why, but seems my readonly-attach change (#38322) not in that review list.. | 16:21 |
| jgriffith | zhiyan, looking again | 16:22 |
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| jgriffith | zhiyan: we'll sort that, I think it's ready to land if we can get one more core to look at it anyway | 16:23 |
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| winston-d | 16:23 | |
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| winston-d | jgriffith: retype, ok. let me knwo if you need help with scheduler | 16:23 |
| zhiyan | jgriffith: thanks not push, I just confused. | 16:23 |
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| winston-d | lsdf | 16:23 |
| jgriffith | winston-d: yes, thanks maybe I'll double check something with you after the meeting | 16:24 |
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| jgriffith | ooops | 16:24 |
| avishay | jgriffith: i think thingee wanted to take a look at read-only, it's fine by me | 16:24 |
| jgriffith | #topic Read Only attach | 16:24 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Read Only attach (Meeting topic: cinder)" | 16:24 | |
| jungleboyj | zhiyan: I will take a look as well. | 16:24 |
| zhiyan | jungleboyj: thx | 16:24 |
| jgriffith | avishay: since he's on vacation we'll need to move forward | 16:24 |
| avishay | jgriffith: aahhhh | 16:24 |
| jgriffith | he's enjoying debachery in the desert | 16:24 |
| zhiyan | oh, ok | 16:24 |
| jgriffith | so this one... | 16:25 |
| hemna | mmm debachery | 16:25 |
| jgriffith | two cnflicting patches | 16:25 |
| jgriffith | zhiyan: 's patch: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/38322 | 16:25 |
| jgriffith | and Anastasia's patch: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/34723/ | 16:25 |
| zhiyan | avishay: thanks for you support. and winston-d :) | 16:25 |
| jgriffith | I believe we agreed to go with the implementation zhiyan submitted no? | 16:26 |
| zhiyan | jgriffith: yes, actually i'm also not sure which way you prefer.. | 16:26 |
| jgriffith | zhiyan: well my review should answer that for you | 16:26 |
| avishay | we should just do a git merge of the two | 16:26 |
| jgriffith | avishay: ha! | 16:26 |
| zhiyan | jgriffith: but from former your comments, seems i'm on the right way :) | 16:26 |
| jgriffith | avishay: you get to resolve the conflicts | 16:26 |
| jgriffith | avishay: and I'll assign all bugs to you | 16:26 |
| avishay | jgriffith: :) | 16:26 |
| vincent_hou | jgriffith: i am also waiting for ur answer. Anastasia asked me review hers. | 16:27 |
| vincent_hou | :-) | 16:27 |
| jgriffith | I'd like DuncanT- avishay and winston-d to look at those two patches and vote please | 16:27 |
| jgriffith | vincent_hou: my answer is zhiyan 's patch | 16:27 |
| winston-d | jgriffith: ok | 16:27 |
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| DuncanT- | I vote for zhiyan's patch | 16:27 |
| jgriffith | vincent_hou: it's simpler, less complicated IMO | 16:27 |
| avishay | jgriffith: can you quickly highlight the high-level differences? | 16:27 |
| jgriffith | and still does the job | 16:27 |
| vincent_hou | yeah, zhiyan explained that to me. | 16:28 |
| avishay | jgriffith: i'm familiar with zhiyan's not anastasia's | 16:28 |
| jgriffith | that's left as an exercise to the student :) | 16:28 |
| winston-d | i'll take a look at ACL | 16:28 |
| avishay | i hate homeowkr :( | 16:28 |
| avishay | homework | 16:28 |
| jgriffith | zhiyan: or Annastasia can do that if they want | 16:28 |
| DuncanT- | Anastasia's seems to be more ACL type stuff munged into R/O | 16:28 |
| jgriffith | but not right now :) | 16:28 |
| winston-d | i thought that was to solve a different problem? | 16:28 |
| jgriffith | the ACL stuff worries me | 16:28 |
| jgriffith | I'm not very comfortable with it for some reason | 16:28 |
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| jungleboyj | jgriffith: +1 seems like that is something to get in earlier in a release cycle. | 16:29 |
| jungleboyj | IMHO | 16:29 |
| jgriffith | jungleboyj: I'd agree | 16:29 |
| jgriffith | jungleboyj: I'm also concerned about confusion for end users | 16:29 |
| jgriffith | and most of all quota management | 16:29 |
| DuncanT- | I still don't understand the ACL code right now, and that is a bad sign for something being merged this late in a cycle | 16:29 |
| jgriffith | Ok, so I think the concensus is we defer it | 16:30 |
| jgriffith | avishay: opinion? | 16:30 |
| jungleboyj | Seems like a good idea, just bad timing. Is there anyone begging for it right now? | 16:30 |
| jgriffith | winston-d: ? | 16:30 |
| avishay | jgriffith: agree | 16:30 |
| jgriffith | just mirantis folks | 16:30 |
| jgriffith | Ok | 16:30 |
| jungleboyj | He he, I am sure my folks won't be too far behind. :-) | 16:30 |
| winston-d | agree | 16:30 |
| vincent_hou | This feature is demanded by Annastasia and her team. | 16:31 |
| jgriffith | 'demanded' | 16:31 |
| hemna | heh | 16:31 |
| vincent_hou | She used to ask me for the idea and design doc. | 16:31 |
| winston-d | vincent_hou: that was your BP? | 16:32 |
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| winston-d | vincent_hou: no, it is not. | 16:32 |
| vincent_hou | I proposed this topic in Portland. | 16:32 |
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| jgriffith | vincent_hou: so what is that your'e suggesting? | 16:33 |
| vincent_hou | Since there is no clear use cases for it, I decided to pause it. | 16:34 |
| winston-d | so i vote for zhiyan's patch for it's simplicity | 16:34 |
| vincent_hou | jgriffith: i sent her the design, and she said that what they need and would like to implement it. | 16:35 |
| jgriffith | vincent_hou: fine, but everybody here feels uncomfortable with merging it at this stage | 16:35 |
| winston-d | any mirantis folks in here? | 16:35 |
| jgriffith | vincent_hou: do you have a proposal? | 16:35 |
| vincent_hou | I decided not to merge it now. | 16:35 |
| winston-d | i'm curious in their use cases for ACL. | 16:36 |
| avishay | ok i think we're all in agreement | 16:36 |
| jgriffith | yep, let's move on | 16:36 |
| jgriffith | The only other thing I have (really this time, I promise) | 16:36 |
| jgriffith | Please take a look at: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/40660/ | 16:36 |
| jgriffith | Not my comment | 16:36 |
| jgriffith | s/Not/Note/ | 16:36 |
| jgriffith | and with that... I'm finally going to shut-up :) | 16:37 |
| DuncanT- | I don't understand it either - for tables with no uud (like flavor) yes, but we don't have any of those... | 16:37 |
| jgriffith | #topic open-floor | 16:37 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open-floor (Meeting topic: cinder)" | 16:37 | |
| hemna | I don't get that patch | 16:37 |
| jgriffith | DuncanT-: boris did point out a few tables like service etc | 16:37 |
| hemna | I don't see the need for a unique constraint on a flag for deleted | 16:37 |
| jgriffith | DuncanT-: but I don't see the issue personally | 16:38 |
| jgriffith | DuncanT-: he gave a pretty convoluted example of how to have a race there | 16:38 |
| DuncanT- | jgriffith: on #openstack-cinder ? | 16:38 |
| jgriffith | guitarzan: fully agreed with him so maybe he could explain :) | 16:38 |
| guitarzan | metadata key values | 16:38 |
| jgriffith | DuncanT-: yes | 16:38 |
| guitarzan | are a good example | 16:38 |
| DuncanT- | jgriffith: I'll read the scroll back | 16:38 |
| kmartin | any updates on the multi-attach patch? https://review.openstack.org/#/c/42886/ | 16:38 |
| * jgriffith votes we drop integer ID's everywhere anyway | 16:38 | |
| avishay | i didn't understand the patch either...i was hoping thingee would come back and save the day :) | 16:38 |
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| jgriffith | kmartin: sadly I think it's dead for this release | 16:39 |
| zhiyan | jgriffith: it is not ready | 16:39 |
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| avishay | looks that way unfortunately | 16:39 |
| kmartin | jgriffith: ok, maybe first part of I | 16:39 |
| zhiyan | kmartin: probably, sorry for that | 16:39 |
| hemna | :( | 16:39 |
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| kmartin | zhiyan: no problem | 16:40 |
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| zhiyan | kmartin: yes we will do that out in early I. thanks | 16:40 |
| zhiyan | jgriffith: if you like it :) | 16:40 |
| jgriffith | zhiyan: I like it and we need it | 16:40 |
| DuncanT- | guitarzan: But a new metadata K/V pair will get a new ID, so what's the problem? | 16:40 |
| jgriffith | zhiyan: just not this late | 16:40 |
| zhiyan | jgriffith: nod | 16:41 |
| guitarzan | DuncanT-: the idea is that the key needs to be unique | 16:41 |
| kmartin | zhiyan: may want to move it to WIP | 16:41 |
| guitarzan | and it could be enforced by the db | 16:41 |
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| jgriffith | zhiyan: kmartin good point ^^ | 16:41 |
| zhiyan | kmartin: indeed | 16:41 |
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| jgriffith | zhiyan: kmartin or even abandon and bring it back to life after H is out | 16:41 |
| DuncanT- | guitarzan: So this is just about increasing the DB enforced constraints, nothing else? | 16:41 |
| guitarzan | yes | 16:41 |
| guitarzan | at least I guess so | 16:41 |
| zhiyan | jgriffith: i prefer mark it WIP if you ok. and kmartin. | 16:42 |
| DuncanT- | guitarzan: Ok, that's the first I've heard of that. People kept talking about race conditions | 16:42 |
| guitarzan | changing the deleted flag type is necessary due to the soft deletes | 16:42 |
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| guitarzan | yeah, a db uniqueness constraint prevents the races too | 16:42 |
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| kmartin | zhiyan: +1 from me as WIP | 16:42 |
| guitarzan | at least that's what I understand the "race condition" part of it to mean | 16:42 |
| winston-d | so i vote for zhiyan's patch for it's simplicity | 16:42 |
| DuncanT- | guitarzan: I'll read the scrollback | 16:43 |
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| zhiyan | winston-d: thank you | 16:43 |
| guitarzan | DuncanT-: it descended into the weeds, like most of our discussions | 16:43 |
| avishay | another winston? :) | 16:43 |
| kmartin | zhiyan: just add a note with your plans as the note for the WIP | 16:43 |
| jgriffith | winston-1: thanks | 16:43 |
| winston-1 | i really need DuncanT-'s list of slow freenode server. | 16:43 |
| DuncanT- | guitarzan: It the patch hasn't got a clear cut reason for going in, I'm going to vote against it probably | 16:44 |
| winston-d | it's killing me | 16:44 |
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| zhiyan | kmartin: sure, i will ask Charlie help mark it. | 16:44 |
| DuncanT- | winston: I've got no correlation between lag and servers... I'm now blaming our corporate proxy | 16:44 |
| * jgriffith worries we're getting into a habbit of needless churn and complexity | 16:44 | |
| guitarzan | DuncanT-: the commit message mentions unique constraints | 16:44 |
| winston-d | the vote message was sent 5 mins ago. Grrr. | 16:44 |
| guitarzan | so it sounds like that is the goal | 16:45 |
| DuncanT- | guitarzan: But why is that a useful goal? | 16:45 |
| guitarzan | that's not my question to answer | 16:45 |
| jgriffith | haha | 16:45 |
| guitarzan | lots of people like data integrity at the db layer | 16:45 |
| jgriffith | guitarzan: drops chaos grenads and exits stage-left | 16:46 |
| guitarzan | and I can't really argue with them about it | 16:46 |
| DuncanT- | There's nothing in the blueprint, and DBAs be crazy | 16:46 |
| guitarzan | it *seems* useful to use unique constraints where appropriate | 16:46 |
| jgriffith | so there's an thread on ML about the long-term goal here | 16:46 |
| jgriffith | uuid, uuid, uuid, uuid, uuid | 16:46 |
| hemna | unique constraints on uuids makes sense to me | 16:46 |
| avishay | there definite value in making the DB proper, but i need to understand why/how/what.. | 16:47 |
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| hemna | but not sure why it's needed elsewhere | 16:47 |
| guitarzan | do unique constraints on metadata keys make sense? | 16:47 |
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| guitarzan | or service names? | 16:47 |
| hemna | I don't think so on metadata keys | 16:47 |
| guitarzan | no? why not? | 16:47 |
| hemna | why can't there be dupes? | 16:47 |
| guitarzan | how do you get to the second copy? | 16:47 |
| hemna | who cares, it's metadata | 16:47 |
| guitarzan | kv get | 16:48 |
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| jgriffith | guitarzan: winston-d avishay hemna kmartin ... everyone | 16:49 |
| jgriffith | http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2013-August/013877.html | 16:49 |
| winston-d | jgriffith: thx | 16:50 |
| jgriffith | no need to go in the weeds here, vote via review, or discuss in cinder channel | 16:50 |
| jgriffith | let's move on | 16:50 |
| joel-coffman | I have a quick question regarding https://bugs.launchpad.net/cinder/+bug/1215962 | 16:50 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1215962 in cinder "Cinder migration 017_add_encryption_information adds two new volume types without warning" [Undecided,Fix committed] | 16:50 |
| jgriffith | haha | 16:50 |
| jgriffith | joel-coffman: yes | 16:50 |
| joel-coffman | is the migration policy to avoid adding anything to the database? | 16:50 |
| joel-coffman | caught me by surprise this week... | 16:51 |
| hemna | are we adding volume types by default ? | 16:51 |
| avishay | DB migrations should add columns and tables, not modify rows | 16:51 |
| avishay | *add/remove/modify columns and tables | 16:51 |
| guitarzan | well, that's not necessarily true | 16:51 |
| eharney | IMO if you need to add types like that by default, it needs to be done by code in Cinder, not DB migrations | 16:51 |
| kmartin | agree | 16:51 |
| hemna | avishay, unless there is data migration needed due to a change no? | 16:52 |
| guitarzan | but there's no reason to add a volume type just for fun | 16:52 |
| hemna | guitarzan, +1 | 16:52 |
| kmartin | these should be removed | 16:52 |
| avishay | hemna: sure there are exceptions, but overall, yes | 16:52 |
| zhiyan | hemna: yes +1 | 16:52 |
| DuncanT- | joel-coffman: We migrated a system and suddenly had a new type, that was a surprise.... | 16:52 |
| eharney | hemna: but you can do that in code, not in the migration schema, right? | 16:52 |
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| joel-coffman | okay | 16:52 |
| joel-coffman | what's the *correct* way to create new types that correspond to our front-end encryption schemes that are implemented in Nova? | 16:53 |
| hemna | eharney, depends, if the data needs migration prior to code...that's what migration is for IMO. but I don't think we should be adding volume types by default | 16:53 |
| jgriffith | joel-coffman: the admin creates them as part of config | 16:53 |
| avishay | admins should create whatever volume types they want in the deployment...i think cinder shouldn't create any at all | 16:53 |
| jgriffith | avishay: +1 | 16:53 |
| bswartz | avishay: +2 | 16:53 |
| jgriffith | joel-coffman: for example, there's likely to be a number of people who choose not to enable/use encryption | 16:53 |
| jungleboyj | avishay: +1 | 16:54 |
| joel-coffman | jgriffith: any way to automate this process for the types that we *know* should exist | 16:54 |
| hemna | jgriffith, +1 | 16:54 |
| guitarzan | there are no types that should exist everywhere | 16:54 |
| avishay | the cinder code should check extra_specs and do as necessary | 16:54 |
| joel-coffman | configuration options could enable / disable it | 16:54 |
| DuncanT- | Why should encrypted types exist? | 16:54 |
| jgriffith | joel-coffman: no, as types are all custom | 16:54 |
| jgriffith | joel-coffman: not sure of the problem? | 16:54 |
| winston-d | guitarzan: +1 | 16:54 |
| jgriffith | joel-coffman: cinder type-create luks | 16:54 |
| jgriffith | done | 16:54 |
| DuncanT- | joel-coffman: We didn't want encrypted types. Not now, maybe never | 16:54 |
| avishay | joel-coffman: for example, i may want a type that has encryption, a certain QoS setting, and no compression | 16:55 |
| joel-coffman | okay, that makes sense | 16:55 |
| avishay | joel-coffman: why should i be stuck with those 2 types? | 16:55 |
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| avishay | joel-coffman: or i may not want compression at all, and then i need to go and remove the types | 16:55 |
| joel-coffman | just trying to understand the environment better | 16:55 |
| jgriffith | joel-coffman: going through the code I didn't see where this would cause a problem | 16:55 |
| jgriffith | joel-coffman: did I miss something perhaps (ie this being taking out the creation of the types) | 16:55 |
| joel-coffman | no, not really a problem -- just a surprise | 16:56 |
| jgriffith | joel-coffman: ahh, sorry about that | 16:56 |
| jgriffith | joel-coffman: I was looking for you when DuncanT- and I discussed it the other day | 16:56 |
| jgriffith | joel-coffman: you weren't around and sadly I forgot to follow up | 16:56 |
| jgriffith | joel-coffman: You were also supposed to be added to the review | 16:57 |
| joel-coffman | no worries, I'll know better next time (and try to hang out more on IRC) | 16:57 |
| joel-coffman | :) | 16:57 |
| jgriffith | joel-coffman: sorry for the surprise | 16:57 |
| joel-coffman | jgriffith: thanks, being part of that review would have been helpful | 16:57 |
| avishay | next time we surprise you we'll make sure to bring confetti :) | 16:57 |
| jgriffith | joel-coffman: yeah, that for sure would've been appropriate | 16:58 |
| joel-coffman | avishay: ha! | 16:58 |
| jgriffith | Ok.. so two topics on the agenda that took 10 minutes and we still filled our hour :) | 16:58 |
| jgriffith | dang we're good | 16:58 |
| avishay | never fails | 16:58 |
| avishay | now try to end the meeting :) | 16:58 |
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| bswartz | wait for it.... | 16:59 |
| hemna | lol | 16:59 |
| kmartin | waiting... | 16:59 |
| jgriffith | #end meeting | 16:59 |
| guitarzan | hah | 16:59 |
| jgriffith | ha! | 16:59 |
| avishay | lol | 16:59 |
| winston-d | asd///asdfas | 16:59 |
| jgriffith | #endmeeting cinder | 16:59 |
| guitarzan | avishay: wins | 16:59 |
| hemna | awesome | 16:59 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 16:59 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Aug 28 16:59:21 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 16:59 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/cinder/2013/cinder.2013-08-28-16.03.html | 16:59 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/cinder/2013/cinder.2013-08-28-16.03.txt | 16:59 |
| eharney | haha man you guys are harsh | 16:59 |
| jgriffith | I didn't want to dissappoint | 16:59 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/cinder/2013/cinder.2013-08-28-16.03.log.html | 16:59 |
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| hartsocks | woo! | 16:59 |
| jgriffith | until next virtbot | 16:59 |
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| jungleboyj | Later. | 16:59 |
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| jgriffith | cya all | 16:59 |
| vincent_hou | good day, folks! | 17:00 |
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| hartsocks | #startmeeting vmwareapi | 17:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Aug 28 17:00:48 2013 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is hartsocks. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 17:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 17:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: vmwareapi)" | 17:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'vmwareapi' | 17:00 |
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| hartsocks | Greetings stackers! | 17:00 |
| hartsocks | Who's about? | 17:01 |
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| hartsocks | Well, most of the team are at VMworld so I had a feeling it might be *crickets* this week. | 17:02 |
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| * hartsocks listens to the crickets… giving it 5 minutes | 17:03 | |
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| hartsocks | Okay. Me and the crickets are signing off. | 17:05 |
| hartsocks | #endmeeting | 17:05 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 17:05 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Aug 28 17:05:52 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 17:05 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/vmwareapi/2013/vmwareapi.2013-08-28-17.00.html | 17:05 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/vmwareapi/2013/vmwareapi.2013-08-28-17.00.txt | 17:05 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/vmwareapi/2013/vmwareapi.2013-08-28-17.00.log.html | 17:05 |
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| zaneb | #startmeeting heat | 20:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Aug 28 20:00:19 2013 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is zaneb. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 20:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 20:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: heat)" | 20:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'heat' | 20:00 |
| sdake_ | o/ | 20:00 |
| zaneb | evening all | 20:00 |
| asalkeld | o/ | 20:00 |
| stevebaker | yop | 20:00 |
| spzala | Hello! | 20:00 |
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| bgorski | o/ | 20:00 |
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| jasond | o/ | 20:01 |
| zaneb | shardy can't make it this evening, so y'all are stuck with me again ;) | 20:01 |
| andrew_plunk | hello everyone | 20:01 |
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| jpeeler | hey | 20:02 |
| zaneb | ok, I think that qualifies as a quorum | 20:02 |
| SpamapS | o/ | 20:02 |
| radix | hello! | 20:02 |
| asalkeld | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/HeatAgenda | 20:02 |
| zaneb | #topic Review last week's actions | 20:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Review last week's actions (Meeting topic: heat)" | 20:02 | |
| m4dcoder | o/ | 20:02 |
| zaneb | #link http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/heat/2013/heat.2013-08-21-20.01.html | 20:03 |
| zaneb | only one, shardy to post mission statement, again | 20:03 |
| zaneb | that actually happened! | 20:03 |
| zaneb | woohoo! | 20:03 |
| radix | finally :) | 20:03 |
| zaneb | let's call that success, unless anybody wants to bikeshed some more ;) | 20:03 |
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| SpamapS | isn't that what meetings are for? | 20:04 |
| zaneb | #topic Reminder re FeatureProposalFreeze | 20:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Reminder re FeatureProposalFreeze (Meeting topic: heat)" | 20:04 | |
| zaneb | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/FeatureProposalFreeze | 20:04 |
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| zaneb | hopefully y'all have proposed your features | 20:04 |
| stevebaker | that seemed to go well | 20:04 |
| SpamapS | came and gone no? | 20:04 |
| zaneb | SpamapS: yep | 20:04 |
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| stevebaker | when is feature freeze? | 20:05 |
| * zaneb suspects copy-and-paste fail on the agenda here ;) | 20:05 | |
| zaneb | stevebaker: 4th September | 20:05 |
| adrian_otto | am I in a time machine? | 20:05 |
| zaneb | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Havana_Release_Schedule | 20:05 |
| zaneb | so, good job everybody | 20:05 |
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| stevebaker | so features still being reviewed after the 4th need explicit exceptions? | 20:06 |
| zaneb | and it looks like we don't have a huge review backlog, so we should be in good shape for feature freeze | 20:06 |
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| zaneb | stevebaker: well, havana-3 release is on the 6th | 20:06 |
| zaneb | so there shouldn't really be any _features_ going in after that | 20:06 |
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| zaneb | review queue looks about as long as always | 20:07 |
| zaneb | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:open+project:openstack/heat,n,z | 20:07 |
| radix | I'm trying to help :) | 20:07 |
| SpamapS | Do we have features which are racing to land? | 20:07 |
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| zaneb | good question | 20:08 |
| radix | yeah it'd be nice if I could filter gerrit by feature vs bugfix | 20:08 |
| zaneb | #topic h3 blueprint status | 20:08 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "h3 blueprint status (Meeting topic: heat)" | 20:08 | |
| stevebaker | my review queue alarm threshold is "does it scroll?" | 20:08 |
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| SpamapS | https://launchpad.net/heat/+milestone/havana-3 | 20:08 |
| asalkeld | zaneb, http://status.openstack.org/reviews/#heat | 20:08 |
| zaneb | stevebaker: it's been scrolling for quite a while though ;) | 20:08 |
| kebray | jasond is multi-engine stuff a feature or bug? | 20:08 |
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| stevebaker | kebray: yes! | 20:08 |
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| SpamapS | looks like all targetted BP's are in review | 20:08 |
| zaneb | asalkeld: ooh, fancy :) | 20:09 |
| jasond | kebray: we decided it was a BP since the original commit was reverted | 20:09 |
| radix | ah there we go | 20:09 |
| stevebaker | reviews on this are lacking https://review.openstack.org/#/c/43205/ | 20:09 |
| kebray | ok.. so, zaneb, we're racing a bit on the multi-engine one. I think jasond has it under control though.. it's down to more tests I believe. | 20:09 |
| zaneb | ok, thanks for the info | 20:10 |
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| zaneb | #link https://launchpad.net/heat/+milestone/havana-3 | 20:10 |
| zaneb | trusts and multi-engine are the two diciest, I think | 20:11 |
| zaneb | but I'm reasonably confident | 20:11 |
| kebray | I want trusts... if help is needed, let me know and I can see what resources we can spare to help the effort. | 20:11 |
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| stevebaker | kebray: reviews would be good | 20:12 |
| kebray | k. | 20:12 |
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| zaneb | kebray: we all want trusts ;) I think shardy has got it to the point where it's not going to be lack of resources causing a problem | 20:12 |
| zaneb | it will be random stuff out of left field | 20:12 |
| timductive | yes +1 on trusts :) | 20:12 |
| kebray | zaneb: that's what I thought... and I figure throwing more people at the problem would actually slow it down. so, also happy to stay out of the way :-) | 20:13 |
| zaneb | after studiously ignoring reviews for a few days to get the update stuff posted, my plan is to focus on reviews for the next few days | 20:13 |
| kebray | but, stevebaker comment on reviews is appropriate. we'll try to help with that. | 20:13 |
| zaneb | the gate will be crazy next week, so if everybody can try to get the review backlog down that would be very helpful | 20:13 |
| asalkeld | also can we stick to looking for bugs in the reviews | 20:14 |
| radix | hm? | 20:14 |
| asalkeld | uploading new patches is very time expensive | 20:14 |
| zaneb | yeah, y'all would be surprised about how little anybody will care about typos in hte commit message a year from now ;) | 20:15 |
| asalkeld | radix, just saying very little value in fixing nits | 20:15 |
| zaneb | s/hte/the/ | 20:15 |
| zaneb | #topic Single Config file? | 20:15 |
| zaneb | asalkeld: you have the floor | 20:15 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Single Config file? (Meeting topic: heat)" | 20:15 | |
| sdake_ | the commit message is the most important part of the change | 20:15 |
| asalkeld | haah | 20:15 |
| asalkeld | so the change for the single config is in | 20:16 |
| asalkeld | so little to motivate for now | 20:16 |
| asalkeld | but to let you know we are moving to a single heat.conf | 20:16 |
| asalkeld | I'll do the devstack change | 20:16 |
| radix | the docs still need updated, right? | 20:17 |
| stevebaker | yay | 20:17 |
| asalkeld | then kill the old heat-<>.conf's | 20:17 |
| asalkeld | radix, yes | 20:17 |
| asalkeld | good point | 20:17 |
| asalkeld | that's all from me | 20:17 |
| stevebaker | asalkeld: so the devstack change will start with heat.conf.sample and customize? | 20:17 |
| asalkeld | yip | 20:17 |
| stevebaker | sweet | 20:17 |
| sdake_ | is devstack broken atm with master/ | 20:18 |
| stevebaker | not for me | 20:18 |
| zaneb | sounds good, I guess the question was answered in the affirmative ;) | 20:18 |
| asalkeld | really | 20:18 |
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| asalkeld | I have some environment and template patches for devstack | 20:18 |
| stevebaker | you can always run heat standalone against some other cloud | 20:18 |
| adrian_otto | yes it is broken | 20:18 |
| asalkeld | not sure if they have made it in | 20:18 |
| zaneb | #info we will move to a single config file and remove the legacy configs | 20:18 |
| asalkeld | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/43631/ | 20:19 |
| asalkeld | that not being in might be causing issues | 20:19 |
| stevebaker | yes, we'll be needing that | 20:20 |
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| spzala | zaneb: asalked: is there a doc/link to learn more about single config? | 20:20 |
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| SpamapS | wait when are the legacy configs being removed? | 20:21 |
| SpamapS | "icehouse" right? | 20:21 |
| asalkeld | no, what do you need? | 20:21 |
| asalkeld | SpamapS, we still support them | 20:21 |
| SpamapS | ok, just examples. | 20:21 |
| asalkeld | just removing the examples from master | 20:21 |
| asalkeld | ya | 20:21 |
| SpamapS | roger, nothing to see here, move along | 20:21 |
| asalkeld | zaneb, SpamapS 's next topic... | 20:22 |
| zaneb | :) | 20:22 |
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| zaneb | #topic moving rackspace cloud server specific resources out of heat tree | 20:23 |
| zaneb | so, can I just redefine something here? | 20:23 |
| zaneb | in-repo = in openstack/heat git repo | 20:23 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "moving rackspace cloud server specific resources out of heat tree (Meeting topic: heat)" | 20:23 | |
| zaneb | in-tree = under heat/engine/resources | 20:23 |
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| zaneb | so, SpamapS, what we're talking here is moving out of the repo? | 20:23 |
| stevebaker | or into a contrib dir | 20:23 |
| SpamapS | Ok, I think they should be out of the repo, in the direct control of rackspace-cloud-interested people. | 20:23 |
| asalkeld | well what really matters is what the rackers want | 20:24 |
| zaneb | because I was under the impression we agreed to have it under /contrib, and then when it landed it was in-tree | 20:24 |
| zaneb | and I don't know what happened there | 20:24 |
| SpamapS | I think the rackers are looking to us, heat-core, for guidance. | 20:24 |
| zaneb | miscommunication? | 20:24 |
| asalkeld | hello rackers, what do you want... | 20:24 |
| SpamapS | contrib still carries the problem that rackspace public cloud does not follow the openstack release cadence. | 20:24 |
| radix | ping kebray | 20:25 |
| zaneb | SpamapS: fair point | 20:25 |
| kebray | From the Racker perspective, we want wants best for the project and all parties who want to contribute in a similar manner... | 20:25 |
| SpamapS | This isn't like a driver in the kernel where it is there to support pieces of hardware that are "out there". | 20:25 |
| kebray | there's an obvious advantage to us if our resources get tested as part of CI, as a change to a base resource could affect our resources... but, we also understand not everyone may be able to contribute a fix to our resources. | 20:25 |
| zaneb | SpamapS: but then again, having them out of tree requires us to be more disciplined about the interface to plugins | 20:25 |
| kebray | s/what's/wants | 20:26 |
| asalkeld | I am not stressed it being there | 20:26 |
| SpamapS | The rackspace public cloud is a special snowflake and will always be that way as long as it is not conformant with the rest of OpenStack. | 20:26 |
| radix | hmm, do the rackspace resource tests actually get run in CI? aren't they protected by a "if pyrax is available" clause? | 20:26 |
| stevebaker | for now I would prefer to have no discipline about our plugin interface | 20:26 |
| SpamapS | zaneb: that much discipline will only help adoption of Heat and grow the ecosystem around Heat. | 20:26 |
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| asalkeld | I think that is a strong point of somewhen in tree stevebaker | 20:26 |
| zaneb | stevebaker: too long. "I would prefer to have no discipline." <- better | 20:27 |
| andrew_plunk | I just wonder about the priority that will be given to heat bugs that break plugins | 20:27 |
| SpamapS | radix: yeah, no pyrax, no testing | 20:27 |
| SpamapS | actually hm | 20:27 |
| radix | SpamapS: actually | 20:27 |
| radix | hehe :) | 20:28 |
| radix | I just saw the tests force the registration of the resource so it can be tested. | 20:28 |
| SpamapS | yeah and they just side-step the pyrax calls. | 20:28 |
| kebray | what about resources like Trove? they should remain in-tree, no? | 20:28 |
| SpamapS | kebray: nobody is saying you can't be in stackforge of course. :) | 20:28 |
| radix | (that's probably what neutron tests should do too... therve has been writing the tests so they skip if neutronclient isn't available even if neutronclient isn't really used) | 20:28 |
| SpamapS | kebray: absolutely | 20:28 |
| andrew_plunk | SpamapS: we still run unit tests without pyrax | 20:28 |
| andrew_plunk | we completely mock out pyrax | 20:28 |
| SpamapS | Any resource that is implementing an OpenStack API should be in-tree. | 20:29 |
| zaneb | kebray: yes, as long as it uses regular keystone | 20:29 |
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| kebray | SpamapS. Understood.. I feel I understand the arguments on both sides... so, I'm pretty neutral on this. | 20:29 |
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| andrew_plunk | I feel like the contrib idea is a good middle road | 20:29 |
| zaneb | for my part I would still at least like to see it moved to /contrib | 20:29 |
| stevebaker | +1 for contrib | 20:29 |
| zaneb | as a packager, I really don't feel it belongs where it is | 20:29 |
| asalkeld | sure | 20:29 |
| jasond | +1 for /contrib | 20:30 |
| kebray | We hope the RS Cloud Server resources goes away soon.. we're working internally to converge compatibility such that the generic nova server resource is sufficient. | 20:30 |
| SpamapS | I feel like we are holding the rax developers back, and they are putting code in front of us that has almost nothing to do with Heat's core mission (whether you like the one we all came up with, or Robert Collins succinct one) | 20:30 |
| zaneb | who wants an action to move it? | 20:30 |
| asalkeld | kebray, cool | 20:30 |
| stevebaker | kebray: i home when native nova server lands you can switch to subclassing that? | 20:30 |
| andrew_plunk | zaneb: you can give it to me | 20:30 |
| kebray | Load Balancer is another issue though. I think HP and other vendors will have similar one off special implementations potentially. | 20:30 |
| SpamapS | kebray: even more reason to get them out of the repo and into a place that can just be shut down when the unicorns are finally harnessed. ;) | 20:31 |
| zaneb | #action andrew_plunk to move Rackspace resources to /contrib directory | 20:31 |
| kebray | SpamapS I don't disagree. | 20:31 |
| jasond | SpamapS: i like getting feedback from the core devs | 20:31 |
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| SpamapS | kebray: HP's LBaaS is a published API (Atlas) IIRC. | 20:31 |
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| jasond | when something is clearly up to us, the core devs can just approve based on votes from other rackers | 20:32 |
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| zaneb | so, on the in-repo/out-of-repo question, I'm relaxed. If the current situation is not working for Rackspace folks, feel free to move it. And if it is, I'm not worried about leaving it in /contrib | 20:32 |
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| SpamapS | jasond: thats a fair counter-argument.. resources are still a bit mysterious and core devs can help make them better. | 20:32 |
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| radix | if it's in /contrib, will it get CI? | 20:32 |
| asalkeld | radix, as long as you have tests | 20:33 |
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| zaneb | radix: I'm sure there's a way to arrange it so it will | 20:33 |
| SpamapS | It would be harder to test them from contrib | 20:33 |
| SpamapS | I'm kind of "meh" on contrib | 20:33 |
| SpamapS | heat/engine/resources/rackspace == contrib in my mind. | 20:33 |
| zaneb | SpamapS: I don't know about Debian, but that's just a PITA to package in an RPM | 20:34 |
| asalkeld | looks like we have come full circle | 20:34 |
| adrian_otto | you can have multiple repos in heat, and contrib could be its own repo, and it could still have CI. | 20:34 |
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| kebray | Is there a way to have contrib (or heat/engine/resources/rackspace be "optional" on test gates? Maybe adrian_otto's suggestion accounts for that. | 20:35 |
| jasond | SpamapS: except contrib/rackspace could have its own heat tree (engine, api, etc..) | 20:35 |
| SpamapS | Ok lets take a step back from the ideas on how. Am I in a minority in suggesting that these resources should be out of the repo/tree? | 20:35 |
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| asalkeld | I don't mind either way | 20:35 |
| SpamapS | zaneb: no its not hard with Debian, but it is far less automatic than just "let setup.py do its thing" | 20:35 |
| andrew_plunk | SpamapS I know that RandallBurt's vote is with you | 20:35 |
| * zaneb is not taking a side | 20:35 | |
| kebray | I'm neutral. | 20:35 |
| adrian_otto | then let's KISS | 20:36 |
| SpamapS | Yeah, if its just me and Randall who care.. leave them be. | 20:36 |
| adrian_otto | if having htem in tree is not causing objections, then let's revisit it once there is an objection to field. | 20:36 |
| adrian_otto | I think we already worked around the test gate concern, right kebray? | 20:36 |
| SpamapS | My objection mainly pertains to the fact that by having them in-tree we raise the barrier for other projects who want to write custom resources.. as it is not obvious _at all_ how to do that and not be in-tree. | 20:37 |
| kebray | adrian_otto issue is if someone makes change to base resource and RS resource tests break, is that gating that change until someone fixes the RS resource? | 20:37 |
| andrew_plunk | SpamapS: that can be documented | 20:37 |
| zaneb | SpamapS: true, but we weren't exactly fighting them off before either ;) | 20:37 |
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| zaneb | andrew_plunk: that *is* documented https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Heat/Plugins | 20:38 |
| stevebaker | SpamapS: we'd need to decide that our resource interface was going to have proper change control before encouraging that though | 20:38 |
| SpamapS | zaneb: An ecosystem starts with one user though.. and we have done the one in a special way that we will likely never do again. | 20:38 |
| kebray | SpamapS: does moving them to contrib not address your main objection? | 20:38 |
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| adrian_otto | contrib is stuff that does not get tested, right? | 20:39 |
| asalkeld | there is just a plugins_dir config option isn't there | 20:39 |
| SpamapS | kebray: moving them to contrib would make it more obvious, but would we accept a resource to control vagrant, or CloudStack, in contrib? | 20:39 |
| adrian_otto | and it's use-at-your-own-risk | 20:39 |
| zaneb | adrian_otto: I think we'd want to keep testing it | 20:39 |
| adrian_otto | then it should probably be in your tree | 20:39 |
| zaneb | SpamapS: I would | 20:40 |
| adrian_otto | if you are supporting it, then treat it as such | 20:40 |
| andrew_plunk | Keeping these resources in the repo helps with collaboration outside of any specific company. Everyone gets visibility to Rackspace specific code and the converse | 20:40 |
| adrian_otto | if it's unsupported, then it's contrib, right? | 20:40 |
| kebray | SpamapS I would be ok with it for now until we find a concrete objection. | 20:40 |
| SpamapS | Mmk, if we would, and we'd be happy with the review load being centralized, then we should push to move resources out of tree en masse eventually. | 20:41 |
| SpamapS | But for now, nothing is broken, and nobody is stifled, so I suggest we move on. | 20:41 |
| zaneb | SpamapS: is this worth a mailing list post? | 20:41 |
| adrian_otto | but to repeat kebray's comment, if it aids the project, we will not object to moving them elsewhere | 20:42 |
| zaneb | seems like this is a long-form argument ;) | 20:42 |
| kebray | I agree it some point it will happen.. if enough special contribs are there, centralized review from core team will become difficult in the long run. But, it's still early.. we don't have many yet, so there's benefit to collaborating on the reviews. | 20:42 |
| kebray | adrian_otto, correct. I don't object to moving them out. I defer to the core team's recommendation. | 20:42 |
| zaneb | ok | 20:43 |
| zaneb | #topic Open discussion | 20:43 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: heat)" | 20:43 | |
| zaneb | have at it | 20:43 |
| radix | is there a way to schedule/plan individual meetings at the summit? like, things that aren't talks | 20:43 |
| zaneb | radix: yes, the design summit | 20:43 |
| kebray | is there a documented plan somewhere around native heat tools to replace heat-cfn, and overlap with what cloud-init provides? | 20:43 |
| SpamapS | radix: that is the entire point of the design summit. :) the talks were an after thought :) | 20:44 |
| zaneb | radix: that hasn't been organised yet though | 20:44 |
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| SpamapS | kebray: yes, .. blueprint native-in-instance-tools | 20:44 |
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| stevebaker | kebray: I'll propose a design summit session for that | 20:44 |
| kebray | SpamapS does that address the overlap in functionality with cloud-init? I may just need to reread it. | 20:44 |
| kebray | stevebaker: awesome! | 20:45 |
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| radix | zaneb: wait, is the "design summit" something different from what is happening in HK? | 20:45 |
| SpamapS | kebray: there are 3 sub-blueprints | 20:45 |
| SpamapS | kebray: and there is no overlap.. cloud-init != a config management tool. :) | 20:45 |
| zaneb | radix: it's a separate track | 20:45 |
| kebray | stevebaker: can you also propose the design summit happen in a place that isn't so expensive to travel to? I'd love to send more people :-) | 20:45 |
| zaneb | radix: but don't worry, it'll be in Hong Kong ;) | 20:45 |
| radix | hehe, ok | 20:45 |
| SpamapS | kebray: though for the bootstrap-config tool... it might work out :) | 20:45 |
| stevebaker | kebray: heh | 20:45 |
| kebray | SpamapS I know cloud-init isn't config management. I guess my knowledge of cnf tools is lacking. I'll read up on that :-) | 20:46 |
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| asalkeld | ansible as a service? | 20:46 |
| stevebaker | ansible as a metadata snippet? | 20:46 |
| SpamapS | aaas is a horrible, horrible name | 20:46 |
| asalkeld | :) | 20:46 |
| * stevebaker drops the kids off at the school | 20:47 | |
| zaneb | radix: it's basically a bunch of rooms that are essentially developer-only design sessions. Official/incubated projects get allocated time. It'll be organised shortly. | 20:47 |
| kebray | I'm going to ansiblefest. I'm actually very interested in the convergence of the configuration tools with orchestration.. they are moving into orchestration, and some people think orchestration engine should solve config management (don't want to debate that now thought). | 20:47 |
| radix | zaneb: okay, cool | 20:47 |
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| radix | zaneb: even though I'm not going to be there :( I want to propose some discussions | 20:47 |
| SpamapS | kebray: I may join you there. | 20:48 |
| asalkeld | kebray, it would be nice to support ansible/salt | 20:48 |
| kebray | fwiw, I don't think many of us Rackspace devs will be at the summit :-( | 20:48 |
| asalkeld | :( | 20:48 |
| zaneb | :( | 20:48 |
| zaneb | kebray: that's disappointing | 20:48 |
| asalkeld | heat summit in kebray's garage | 20:48 |
| kebray | asalkeld feel free to take up a collection :-) | 20:48 |
| SpamapS | kebray: are you _asking_ us to kidnap your devs and take them to HK? ;) | 20:48 |
| kebray | SpamapS: fine by me :-) | 20:49 |
| andrew_plunk | I don't know if you can kidnap the willing | 20:49 |
| * asalkeld not rolling in cash | 20:49 | |
| adrian_otto | I will represent radix | 20:49 |
| radix | I know therve and adrian_otto are going to be there, not sure who else | 20:49 |
| kebray | Anyway, we'll figure out how to contribute. We like working with you all :-) | 20:49 |
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| zaneb | ok, there no *law* that says we have to go the full hour ;) | 20:50 |
| asalkeld | w00t | 20:50 |
| zaneb | so if we're done here I'll wrap it up | 20:50 |
| asalkeld | coffee time | 20:51 |
| SpamapS | re ansible and salt.. we already integrate well with both of them, anything new would be syntactic sugar to make federating our instances into a salt/ansible grouping easier. | 20:51 |
| kebray | SpamapS asalkeld I'd love to review more of ya'lls thoughts on config management, Salt/Ansible, orchestration, etc. | 20:51 |
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| SpamapS | kebray: we can chat about it in #heat after if you have time. | 20:51 |
| kebray | Ok. | 20:51 |
| SpamapS | zaneb: please yes lets wrap | 20:51 |
| zaneb | ok | 20:51 |
| zaneb | #endmeeting | 20:51 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 20:51 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Aug 28 20:51:40 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 20:51 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/heat/2013/heat.2013-08-28-20.00.html | 20:51 |
| radix | SpamapS: I would really like to see more "syntactic sugar" :) | 20:51 |
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| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/heat/2013/heat.2013-08-28-20.00.txt | 20:51 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/heat/2013/heat.2013-08-28-20.00.log.html | 20:51 |
| radix | later bros | 20:51 |
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| spzala | radix: good day! later. | 20:52 |
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| jd__ | #startmeeting ceilometer | 21:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Aug 28 21:00:40 2013 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is jd__. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 21:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 21:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: ceilometer)" | 21:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'ceilometer' | 21:00 |
| thomasm | o/ | 21:00 |
| dragondm | o/ | 21:00 |
| dhellmann | o/ | 21:00 |
| terriyu | o/ | 21:00 |
| sandywalsh | o/ | 21:00 |
| herndon | o/ | 21:00 |
| llu-laptop | o/ | 21:00 |
| eglynn | o/ | 21:01 |
| gordc | o/ | 21:01 |
| jd__ | #topic Review Havana-3 milestone | 21:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Review Havana-3 milestone (Meeting topic: ceilometer)" | 21:02 | |
| sileht | o/ | 21:02 |
| jd__ | #link https://launchpad.net/ceilometer/+milestone/havana-3 | 21:02 |
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| asalkeld | o/ | 21:02 |
| eglynn | I've made progress on the alarm history API | 21:02 |
| eglynn | (currently under review) | 21:03 |
| jd__ | I'm sad to announce we're probably the worst project | 21:03 |
| eglynn | on the alarm service partitioner ... | 21:03 |
| eglynn | jd__: harsh! | 21:03 |
| jd__ | so BOOO! | 21:03 |
| jd__ | :-) | 21:03 |
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| * dhellmann hangs head in shame | 21:03 | |
| * terriyu feels bad | 21:03 | |
| eglynn | I've been back to the drawing board a few times on the partitoner | 21:03 |
| gordc | worst as in we have the most open still? | 21:03 |
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| jd__ | more seriously, we're getting better since eglynn's back we really need more review at this point | 21:03 |
| dhellmann | I've allocated time this sprint to do a lot of reviewing, though, and don't really expect to submit any code myself between now and h3 | 21:04 |
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| eglynn | but I think I've workable and reasonably simply solution now for the paritioner | 21:04 |
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| jd__ | gordc: yes | 21:04 |
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| eglynn | (with the coordination between evaluators done over fanout AMQP) | 21:04 |
| eglynn | ... cleaning it up currently | 21:04 |
| jd__ | but Low priority are not really followed | 21:04 |
| eglynn | and adding test coverage | 21:04 |
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| jd__ | eglynn: fair enough | 21:04 |
| eglynn | hope to have a patch series proposed by end of week | 21:04 |
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| gordc | we can close off count-api-requests bp right? | 21:04 |
| sandywalsh | jd__, once I get this branch pushed up, I'll be doing a lot more review | 21:04 |
| jd__ | considering the amount of time needed for reviewing, the end of the week is likely the ultimate deadline | 21:05 |
| jd__ | sandywalsh: cool thanks | 21:05 |
| gordc | i'll be doing pure reviews/bug fixes from now on. | 21:05 |
| sileht | jd__, I think db-tests-with-scenarios is finished | 21:05 |
| dragondm | I'm reviewing as well. | 21:05 |
| jd__ | gordc: I need to update our oslo copy to bring the middleware before | 21:05 |
| eglynn | k | 21:05 |
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| jd__ | sileht: if you think so, can you change the status? | 21:05 |
| gordc | jd__: got it. | 21:05 |
| terriyu | I just submitted a new patch for my group by blueprint today | 21:05 |
| jd__ | thanks dragondm | 21:05 |
| sileht | jd__, sure | 21:06 |
| terriyu | code review on this patch would be great https://review.openstack.org/#/c/44130/ | 21:06 |
| jd__ | I think some effort should be done on the pagination API, the patches are now in the queue for a long time | 21:06 |
| jd__ | too long in my opinion | 21:06 |
| gordc | did we settle the marker_pair stuff? i remember seeing a discussion on that. | 21:07 |
| eglynn | do we have a definition conclusion on the marker field for paging thru meters? | 21:07 |
| eglynn | snap ... | 21:07 |
| gordc | eglynn: :) | 21:07 |
| jd__ | well I think dhellmann proposed a sane solution by using a combination of multiple fields | 21:07 |
| eglynn | ah yes | 21:07 |
| jd__ | the problem is that a lot of the discussion has been confused between samples/meters | 21:08 |
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| dhellmann | yes, all of that is confusing and also irrelevant | 21:08 |
| dhellmann | we don't need numerical ids | 21:08 |
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| dhellmann | the unique id for the value returned by the meters query is the name of the meter and the id of the resource on which that meter is collecting data | 21:08 |
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| dhellmann | so the marker should be the pair of those values, combined in some semi-opaque way so we can make it a single string | 21:09 |
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| jd__ | I hope it's clear to Fengqian | 21:09 |
| eglynn | but we won't rely on the caller to do the attribute concatention or anything like that? | 21:09 |
| sileht | dhellmann, I agree the rest API user shouldn't be able to choose the marker | 21:10 |
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| gordc | dhellmann: i should track the comments from this patch? https://review.openstack.org/#/c/35454/ | 21:10 |
| dhellmann | eglynn: no, we give the caller a marker value and they give it back to us, they shouldn't have to know what it is | 21:10 |
| eglynn | dhellmann: cool | 21:10 |
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| dhellmann | that's what jay was saying about not having them give us "keys" as well as values -- they just give us one value | 21:10 |
| dhellmann | gordc: looking | 21:11 |
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| dhellmann | ok, sorting | 21:11 |
| sandywalsh | right | 21:11 |
| jaypipes | oh, hi guys. | 21:11 |
| dhellmann | we have to sort on the marker value before any user-provided sort keys | 21:11 |
| sandywalsh | it's a magic cookie | 21:11 |
| dragondm | yup | 21:12 |
| dhellmann | and we always sort on that value, no matter what | 21:12 |
| jd__ | sir yes sir! :) | 21:12 |
| dhellmann | that way the marker always works, even if they don't specify a sort | 21:12 |
| jaypipes | dhellmann: right, and then in addition, sort on any user-provided sort keys. | 21:12 |
| dhellmann | right | 21:12 |
| jd__ | if anything's not clear in the review about that we need to make it clear what we expect to Fengqian otherwise I don't think it'll progress | 21:13 |
| dhellmann | so we don't need to look in the database to make sure the marker is valid or anything like that any more | 21:13 |
| dhellmann | ok | 21:13 |
| eglynn | dumb question ... how is the marker attribute distinguished in the representation returned to the caller? | 21:13 |
| dhellmann | I'll add some comments to that review | 21:13 |
| jd__ | and cigar number 3's coming fast | 21:13 |
| * jaypipes thinks it would behoove the project to first start with a cleanup of the meter table to a) rename message_id to sample_id, and b) make it the primary key... then you only ever would need to provide a single marker value... | 21:14 | |
| dhellmann | eglynn: it's a completely separate part of the return value, either in the "next" link or as a separate value | 21:14 |
| dhellmann | so you get a list of return values, a marker, a list of links, etc. | 21:14 |
| eglynn | dhellmann: a-ha, got it | 21:14 |
| jd__ | jaypipes: +inf | 21:14 |
| jd__ | jaypipes: I think it's too late but I've pushed a lot of effort in the rest of the code base toward this, so doing it so in the storage backends would be much welcome | 21:14 |
| * dhellmann thinks about what jaypipes said | 21:14 | |
| jaypipes | dhellmann: would make the sorting/marker code easier, since only single field primary keys... | 21:15 |
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| dhellmann | I think I see it. We're joining on the samples already, so if we return one of their ids as a marker then we don't need a composite marker? And that works because the sample id implies both a resource and a meter name | 21:15 |
| jd__ | that could work indeed | 21:15 |
| sandywalsh | well, we should consider a proper sample table since the motivation of it is good | 21:16 |
| dhellmann | "proper sample table"? | 21:16 |
| thomasm | I am about to submit a bug fix that sorts on timestamp and ID as a tiebreaker. | 21:17 |
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| thomasm | in that function | 21:17 |
| thomasm | Well, get_resources | 21:17 |
| gordc | i like this message_id to sample_id idea... do we have time to get both that and pagination stuff in by next week? | 21:17 |
| gordc | i would think one would have to take priority. | 21:18 |
| sandywalsh | dhellmann, an actual Sample table ... a smaller table that back links to Meter, with fewer fields that represent just the change in measurement | 21:18 |
| jd__ | gordc: I don't think so | 21:18 |
| jd__ | we need to wrap up | 21:18 |
| * dhellmann wonders if we don't want to just say we'll need a ffe for pagination now, since it's likely | 21:18 | |
| dhellmann | sandywalsh: ah, ok | 21:18 |
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| gordc | jd__: yeah, that's what i was thinking. wishful thinking for havana. | 21:18 |
| jd__ | gordc: icehouse :) | 21:18 |
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| dhellmann | so do we say "no pagination in havana" or "pagination will not make the h3 freeze"? | 21:19 |
| dhellmann | I wonder if we can get it done for havana at all, but I'm not writing it, so... | 21:19 |
| dragondm | yah, & if you redo the sample table in icehouse, mebbe we should redo the timestamps in atleast the sql backend to increase precision to < 1s ? | 21:19 |
| jd__ | dhellmann: I think we're going to try until the end | 21:20 |
| thomasm | dragondm +1 | 21:20 |
| jd__ | since the feature have been proposed long before the freeze we can have a freeze exception I guess | 21:20 |
| thomasm | It depends also on if we have a floor version for some of the backends | 21:20 |
| dhellmann | jd__: cool | 21:20 |
| sandywalsh | dragondm, +1 | 21:20 |
| jd__ | #topic Ditch Alembic for Havana? (sandy) | 21:21 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Ditch Alembic for Havana? (sandy) (Meeting topic: ceilometer)" | 21:21 | |
| thomasm | Well, not exactly if we want to go with the Decimal approach | 21:21 |
| dhellmann | if we're going for it, we should try to change the schema only as much as is needed for pagination, and not for unrelated things | 21:21 |
| jd__ | that's kind of a good topic as a following I guess | 21:21 |
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| jaypipes | dhellmann: exactly. | 21:21 |
| sandywalsh | so, not rip out the alembic work, but the held up branches can use sqlalchemy-migration for H3 | 21:21 |
| dragondm | dhellmann: yes. | 21:21 |
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| jd__ | I really think that it's too late for such a drastic change | 21:22 |
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| jd__ | couldn't we just make things works? | 21:22 |
| sandywalsh | (since there are big issues with alembic under sqlite) | 21:22 |
| dhellmann | we don't need to take it out | 21:22 |
| dhellmann | we can just allow more sqlalchemy-migrate scripts | 21:22 |
| sandywalsh | right, don't remove anything, just add a few new migrations to sqlalchemy-migrate | 21:22 |
| gordc | for reference: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ceilometer/+bug/1217156 | 21:22 |
| dhellmann | this is *exactly* why I didn't want the old scripts migrated and the old tool removed | 21:22 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1217156 in ceilometer "Alembic migrations not tested -- and they don't work for SQLite" [Undecided,New] | 21:22 |
| jaypipes | I think a good compromise would be doing the sample_id PK thing and then getting the migration upgrade removed from the base test case... | 21:22 |
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| jaypipes | that way tests would use the sqlalchemy.MetaData.create_all() call and would not re-run migrations on every test case of the storage test cases | 21:23 |
| jaypipes | and we could write specific tests for migrations in the style of Glance and Nova | 21:23 |
| dhellmann | I think those are 2 separate things though, right? I agree we want both at some point, but I'm not sure we need the second now. | 21:24 |
| jaypipes | heck, Alembic doesn't work with SQLite, anyway, so we can't test the alembic migrations in the unit tests.. | 21:24 |
| sandywalsh | right, that would be the goal, but unlikely given the time frame | 21:24 |
| dhellmann | jaypipes: alembic and sqlalchemy-migrate have the same limitations with sqlite, the difference is we're monkeypatching sqlalchemy-migrate all over the place | 21:24 |
| jd__ | well, there's a MySQL usable in CI for unit testing I think, jaypipes | 21:25 |
| jaypipes | dhellmann: yes, indeed :) I've written many o monkey patched sqlite migration :) | 21:25 |
| jd__ | I imagine you already know though :) | 21:25 |
| jaypipes | jd__: well, that's great for testing migrations, yes. SQLite is fine for unit tests though... | 21:25 |
| dhellmann | jaypipes: did you see the stuff boris's team put in oslo's db module to catch some changes and translate them automatically? | 21:25 |
| jd__ | jaypipes: agreed :) | 21:25 |
| jaypipes | dhellmann: some of it... you talking about stuff like the unique constraint naming? | 21:26 |
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| dhellmann | jaypipes: also column renaming I think | 21:26 |
| jaypipes | dhellmann: heh, but it doesn't work unfortunately :) or at least, it doesn't work when you try and run the very first alembic migration in Ceilometer against a SQLite db. | 21:26 |
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| gordc | sorry i need to drop, talk to you guys later. jd__: my meeting topic will be posted to mailinglist. | 21:27 |
| dhellmann | #link https://github.com/openstack/oslo-incubator/blob/master/openstack/common/db/sqlalchemy/migration.py#L163 | 21:27 |
| dhellmann | looks like it is just about unique constraints at this point | 21:27 |
| dhellmann | jaypipes: right, this was just for sqlalchemy-migrate :-( | 21:27 |
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| jaypipes | dhellmann: right. | 21:28 |
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| dhellmann | anyway, did we agree to just let folks continue to write sqlalchemy-migrate scripts instead of moving to alembic for havana? | 21:28 |
| jd__ | hm, but don't we already have alembic stuff? isn't there an upgrade order issue likely? | 21:29 |
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| jaypipes | so, here's another idea... at the start of the next release cycle, we're supposed to condense all existing migrations into a single one, named for the release. How about we just put off any of these changes until the start of Icehouse, and then immediately do a single "init" Alembic migration for havana, and then delete SA-migrate entirely. | 21:29 |
| sandywalsh | jd__, don't think so ... i've converted mine from alembic back to migrate and it seems happy | 21:29 |
| dhellmann | jd__: did anyone successfully create an alembic script? | 21:29 |
| jd__ | dhellmann: I thought so? | 21:30 |
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| jaypipes | dhellmann: I've successfully created one, sure... running it? not so much ;) | 21:30 |
| herndon | yes, there are a couple | 21:30 |
| sandywalsh | dhellmann, only simple ones, the index/constraint related ones puke | 21:30 |
| jd__ | there's things in ./storage/sqlalchemy/alembic/versions | 21:30 |
| jaypipes | herndon: I could not get either alembic migration to run. | 21:30 |
| dhellmann | jaypipes: how would that work for people doing continuous deployment? they would end up with a new migration that was apparently not run but that tries to put their database into a state that it's already in | 21:30 |
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| jaypipes | dhellmann: we could add a single check to the migrate() routine that does an introspection of a single table that we know should have a particular schema... if the check returns True, then we simply instruct alembic that the schema is already up to date? | 21:31 |
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| dhellmann | jaypipes: I guess that would work. | 21:32 |
| * dhellmann hates rolling up migrations | 21:32 | |
| jaypipes | dhellmann: there is another alternative :) We could convert all of the sqlalchemy-migrate versions into alembic migrations. | 21:33 |
| jaypipes | and then remove sa-migrate entirely. | 21:33 |
| dhellmann | jaypipes: but if alembic doesn't work... | 21:33 |
| sandywalsh | I'd rather that approach | 21:33 |
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| jaypipes | dhellmann: well if alembic doesn't work, then either way we're screwed :) | 21:33 |
| sandywalsh | well, if alembic doesn't work, we've got larger issues | 21:33 |
| dhellmann | and we have the same problem, because we have to *for each migration* figure out if it needs to be run or not | 21:33 |
| sandywalsh | uh, what jay said :) | 21:33 |
| jaypipes | dhellmann: since alembic is already in ceilometer :) | 21:33 |
| dhellmann | but if it's not actually doing anything | 21:33 |
| dhellmann | it doesn't matter, right? | 21:34 |
| jaypipes | dhellmann: that's partly why I wrote that email recommending to remove one or the other.. | 21:34 |
| sileht | dhellmann, we have 2 migrations scripts in alembic | 21:34 |
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| dhellmann | ah, well, ok | 21:34 |
| jaypipes | sileht: they don't work. | 21:34 |
| jaypipes | sileht: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ceilometer/+bug/1217156 | 21:34 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1217156 in ceilometer "Alembic migrations not tested -- and they don't work for SQLite" [Undecided,New] | 21:34 |
| jaypipes | sileht: or at least, they don't work in the current ceilometer test setup... | 21:34 |
| eglynn | is the problem limited to sqlite? | 21:35 |
| dhellmann | we had a long discussion about this on the mailing list, and several projects agreed to the same approach, so if we're going to change directions entirely we should bring it back there I guess | 21:35 |
| dhellmann | eglynn: yes, sqlite doesn't support some forms of ALTER TABLE | 21:35 |
| eglynn | dhellmann: gotcha, thanks | 21:35 |
| jaypipes | eglynn: don't think so.. it's a Python error in that bug report. | 21:35 |
| dhellmann | how is it that the tests are running the migrations and they are in master but are now failing? | 21:36 |
| dhellmann | what happened to them in the gate? | 21:36 |
| jaypipes | eglynn: "AttributeError: 'Column' object has no attribute 'create'" for the fix_meter_resource_m migration. | 21:36 |
| jaypipes | dhellmann: I mention in the bug report I just do not think these migrations are running in the tests... | 21:37 |
| dhellmann | ah | 21:37 |
| sandywalsh | it's the alter table that was giving me the grief. Complaining that the new column already existed. I suspect there was a create_all() going on under the hood. | 21:37 |
| herndon | jaypipes: what's different about them? tests from your event types patch are running and failing. does not compute... | 21:37 |
| jaypipes | herndon: I'm not sure :( Perhaps there is something about my submitted alembic migration that doesn't jive with SQLite... | 21:38 |
| herndon | sandywalsh: +1. jaypipes: your alembic migration is supposed to follow the existing migrations right? If there is a python error in those tests, I would never expect it to get to the point where it is trying to create event_types in alembic… am I missing something? | 21:40 |
| jaypipes | herndon: that is my understanding as well... but I can't get to a testable place :( | 21:40 |
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| sandywalsh | so, the way I see it is, there are other people actively working on the problem. We can allow new sqlalchemy-migrations without issue and, once they resolve the problem, either convert fully to alembic or run both as they are now. Whatever they recommend. | 21:41 |
| jaypipes | herndon: when I tried to "step through" the alembic migrations after running all the sa-migrate migrations successfully, i ran into that bug above :( | 21:41 |
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| sandywalsh | but we shouldn't take on big make-work projects like this so close to H3 | 21:41 |
| jaypipes | sandywalsh: my original patch had a working sa-migrate migration :) | 21:41 |
| sandywalsh | jaypipes, me too | 21:41 |
| sandywalsh | if anything, we should likely convert the existing alembic migrations to migrate just in case | 21:42 |
| jaypipes | look, I don't mind going the alembic route at all... I tried to create a working alembic migration, and from what I can tell, it should have worked, but I can't get an environment running that enables me to test it in a step-by-step fashion :( | 21:42 |
| sandywalsh | +1 ... I'm a fan of alembic, looks quite nice. It's just a rough patch for us right now | 21:43 |
| jaypipes | agreed... | 21:43 |
| herndon | +1 | 21:43 |
| sandywalsh | (heh, the three people with alembic patch issues :) | 21:43 |
| jaypipes | lol | 21:44 |
| jd__ | fair enough | 21:44 |
| jaypipes | ok, so dhellmann and jd__, should we stick to sa-migrate patches for right now, then deal with alembic (translation of sa-migration stuff and removal) in first order of business in Icehouse? | 21:44 |
| dragondm | I think the problem is more that sqlite is a PITA, and we haven added the requisite hacks to alembic yet to deal w/ it. | 21:44 |
| dhellmann | jaypipes: I think that's probably the best approach | 21:45 |
| sandywalsh | fair point | 21:45 |
| jaypipes | dragondm: and Mike Bayer has said he is not interested in hacking alembic to support failures in sqlite :) | 21:45 |
| jd__ | jaypipes: yes that'll be good enough | 21:45 |
| jaypipes | jd__: ok. well I will volunteer to make the Icehouse sa-migrate stuff a top priority for me. I can do a lot of that work. | 21:46 |
| herndon | still unresolved: do we need to move the existing alembic migrations to sa-migrate until alembic is more stable? | 21:46 |
| jd__ | one point we may want to stop playing with sqlite and starts mysql at test time like we do with mongo for example, if that's something possible (thinking out loud) | 21:46 |
| dragondm | jaypipes: yah, and I can agree with that. (by add hacks read: workarounds so we don't need to do migrations on sqlite during tests ) | 21:46 |
| jaypipes | yeah | 21:46 |
| jd__ | jaypipes: sign here please --> | 21:46 |
| jaypipes | jd__: possibly, for the sqlalchemy storage tests at least, yes. | 21:46 |
| * jaypipes signs paperwork. | 21:46 | |
| jd__ | great :) | 21:47 |
| jaypipes | back to what herndon was saying... | 21:47 |
| jaypipes | you want me to submit a preliminary patch that moves the two alembic migrations to sa-migrate ones? | 21:47 |
| jd__ | herndon: I don't think we *need* to | 21:47 |
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| jd__ | if there's enough time it might be even better to do though | 21:47 |
| dragondm | jd__: +1 sqlite is fine for unittests where we can just dump a schema in a blank db. for testing data migrations, etc, starting mysql should be acceptable . | 21:47 |
| jaypipes | jd__: yeah.. I think it's worth it.. | 21:47 |
| dhellmann | yeah, I would be worried about anyone doing CD who has already applied those changes | 21:47 |
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| jd__ | do you, sir jaypipes signatory of the sqlalchemy, could do that? | 21:47 |
| jaypipes | dragondm: ++ | 21:48 |
| jaypipes | jd__: sure thing. | 21:48 |
| jaypipes | I can work on that tonight. | 21:48 |
| jd__ | LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, HE CAN DO IT! | 21:48 |
| sandywalsh | dragondm, +1 | 21:48 |
| jaypipes | lol | 21:48 |
| jd__ | jaypipes: thanks :) | 21:48 |
| sandywalsh | :) | 21:48 |
| jaypipes | np | 21:48 |
| jd__ | that'll make us ship something I'll be less ashame of in this regard | 21:48 |
| sandywalsh | jaypipes gets an "atta boy" | 21:49 |
| jaypipes | heh | 21:49 |
| jd__ | #topic Release python-ceilometerclient? | 21:49 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Release python-ceilometerclient? (Meeting topic: ceilometer)" | 21:49 | |
| jd__ | I don't think we need it | 21:49 |
| eglynn | me neither | 21:49 |
| jd__ | #topic Open discussion | 21:50 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: ceilometer)" | 21:50 | |
| jaypipes | lol | 21:50 |
| jaypipes | quickest topic EVAR. | 21:50 |
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| nealph | question on "dispatchers" and "publishers": we seem to have overlapping functionality. IIRC, we decided to keep both so folks can push data out directly from the agent (i.e. parallel to rpc publish) and/or at the end of the pipeline. | 21:50 |
| nealph | am I remembering correctly? | 21:51 |
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| litong | @nealph, you can not use publisher to replace a dispatcher. they are not the same as far as I can tell. | 21:52 |
| sandywalsh | nealph, dispatchers are on raw notifications and publishers are with samples, iirc | 21:52 |
| dhellmann | sandywalsh: right | 21:52 |
| nealph | hrmmm, okay, I'll look at it a little deeper. | 21:52 |
| litong | publisher deals with meter (object), dispatcher takes the data as is. | 21:52 |
| sandywalsh | and dragondm's trigger pipeline will be with events | 21:52 |
| dragondm | yup. | 21:53 |
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| dragondm | (and honestly I'd like to convert raw notification proccessing to use events instead) | 21:54 |
| litong | @dragondm, not really, raw data can contain more stuff then you can possibly predict. | 21:54 |
| litong | @dragondm, you do not really want to do that. | 21:55 |
| dragondm | yes, but you know what you need. | 21:55 |
| sandywalsh | litong, events are the stripped down version of the raw notification with the stuff you know you want | 21:55 |
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| sandywalsh | litong, but we will still store the full raw notification | 21:56 |
| sandywalsh | (just in case, as you say) | 21:56 |
| litong | that is exactly the point, you want the dispatchers to deal with the data logic. | 21:56 |
| sandywalsh | ah, I see your point | 21:56 |
| sandywalsh | yes, true | 21:56 |
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| dragondm | Yup. The reason, for one, is so we can process the data with the same tools whether it's just arrived, or has been persisted awaiting future needed data. | 21:56 |
| dragondm | data logic? | 21:57 |
| litong | data logic, the structure, whatever it maybe. how to interpret what is in raw data etc. | 21:57 |
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| sandywalsh | (like the log dispatcher, it has no idea what the notification has, but it wants to log the whole thing) | 21:58 |
| litong | who knows what might be in it. but a dispatcher can be very specific. all raw data goes through a dispatcher if it is enabled. | 21:58 |
| dragondm | litong: ah. yes. Have you looked at https://review.openstack.org/#/c/42713/ | 21:58 |
| litong | @sandywalsh, +1 | 21:58 |
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| litong | @dragondm, no, I have not. | 21:59 |
| jd__ | sorry, I have to end the meeting guys | 21:59 |
| litong | good day folks. | 21:59 |
| sandywalsh | gg | 21:59 |
| jd__ | feel free to continue on #openstack-metering if needed :) | 21:59 |
| jd__ | have a nice day and happy hacking | 21:59 |
| nealph | k. thanks! | 21:59 |
| eglynn | 'night folks | 21:59 |
| dhellmann | good night! | 21:59 |
| jd__ | #endmeeting | 22:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 22:00 | |
| dragondm | G'NIGHT! | 22:00 |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Aug 28 22:00:01 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 22:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/ceilometer/2013/ceilometer.2013-08-28-21.00.html | 22:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/ceilometer/2013/ceilometer.2013-08-28-21.00.txt | 22:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/ceilometer/2013/ceilometer.2013-08-28-21.00.log.html | 22:00 |
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| sileht | night | 22:00 |
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| thomasm | Take it easy! | 22:01 |
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| reed | hello | 23:02 |
| fifieldt | hi | 23:02 |
| fifieldt | sorry I'm late! | 23:02 |
| reed | 1 minute is not late | 23:02 |
| fifieldt_ | meeting time? | 23:02 |
| fifieldt_ | :D | 23:02 |
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| reed | #meetingstart openstack-community | 23:03 |
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| reed | #startmeeting openstack-community | 23:03 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Aug 28 23:03:18 2013 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is reed. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 23:03 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 23:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: openstack-community)" | 23:03 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'openstack_community' | 23:03 |
| fifieldt | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/Community#Agenda_for_next_meeting | 23:03 |
| reed | #topic review action times from last meeting | 23:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "review action times from last meeting (Meeting topic: openstack-community)" | 23:03 | |
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| reed | I have contacted Hui Cheng, Bruce Lok and Yujie Du to recruite Ask moderators in ZH | 23:04 |
| fifieldt | great! | 23:04 |
| reed | no reply from Cheng, he must be busy with his startup | 23:04 |
| reed | the others are interested and happy to help | 23:05 |
| fifieldt | good news | 23:05 |
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| reed | I think it would be good to setup a training session with them and other volunteer moderators, not just rely on each of them reading the wiki page | 23:05 |
| reed | thoughts? | 23:05 |
| fifieldt | sounds good | 23:06 |
| fifieldt | what format are you thinking? | 23:06 |
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| fifieldt | getting them on the live system working on real questions? | 23:06 |
| reed | i am not sure what would be optimal | 23:06 |
| reed | that sounds like a good idea actually | 23:07 |
| reed | I was thinking also to invite moderators in other Q&A sites, like askubuntu or ask fedora | 23:07 |
| fifieldt | I think there's enough on there that task one could be "find a question that needs help" | 23:07 |
| fifieldt | mmm, good thinking - if they like the pain of moderating, maybe they want more? | 23:07 |
| fifieldt | :) | 23:07 |
| reed | it's more to pick their brains, they can give us ideas and thoughts too... | 23:08 |
| fifieldt | oh, right! | 23:08 |
| fifieldt | that is a good idea | 23:08 |
| fifieldt | perhaps we could also start a post on the CLS forum or g+ thing? | 23:08 |
| reed | not sure who's on the G+ thing but yeah, spread the word as much as possible | 23:09 |
| reed | a blog post would be good too | 23:09 |
| fifieldt | indeed | 23:10 |
| reed | the timeframe is tight though | 23:10 |
| fifieldt | make it a dual announce-chinese and ask for moderators? | 23:10 |
| reed | IMHO two announcements is better | 23:10 |
| fifieldt | ok | 23:10 |
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| reed | I was thinking moderators first because I'm afraid of getting too many questions at once and no moderators | 23:11 |
| fifieldt | right, ok | 23:11 |
| reed | for English I feel can deal more easily with high volumes, in ZH not sure we can leave the site unattended at the beginning | 23:11 |
| fifieldt | I was thinking along the lines of motivation to join ... if there's no content, it's more difficult to get moderators | 23:12 |
| fifieldt | not a strong feeling :) | 23:12 |
| reed | a good one-two combo may work better then: time the training moderators thing first and start shooting announcements soon after | 23:13 |
| fifieldt | cool | 23:13 |
| reed | actually, this may work well because there is a Cloud Open something conference cloud in China (Shanghai IIRC) mid september and Lauren wants to issue a press release, we may mention Ask in ZH there | 23:14 |
| fifieldt | indeed | 23:14 |
| * fifieldt will be at that one | 23:14 | |
| reed | when is it exactly? | 23:14 |
| fifieldt | 15-17 sept | 23:14 |
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| reed | ok, so the PR will be later next week or so | 23:14 |
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| reed | we need to have this session ASAP then | 23:15 |
| fifieldt | yup | 23:15 |
| reed | like one week from now? | 23:15 |
| fifieldt | sure | 23:15 |
| reed | in Asian time zone, I think | 23:15 |
| reed | what time is it in China now? | 23:15 |
| fifieldt | 0715 | 23:15 |
| reed | so one hour later? 0800... too early? | 23:16 |
| reed | i fear that if we do it later we may totally miss the US east coast | 23:16 |
| fifieldt | indeed | 23:16 |
| reed | even so it's late for them | 23:17 |
| reed | oh well | 23:17 |
| fifieldt | I consider 0800 early, but it depends very much on the individual | 23:17 |
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| fifieldt | sometimes volunteers for these kind of activities can't meet during work hours | 23:17 |
| reed | is HK in the same timezone as China? | 23:17 |
| fifieldt | yup | 23:17 |
| fifieldt | "CST" | 23:17 |
| reed | k, so the plan is to: | 23:18 |
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| reed | - date for the event is Sep 4th, 5pm PDT | 23:19 |
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| reed | - invite moderators wannabe and people from around various communities, groups to give us advice | 23:19 |
| fifieldt | would you consider asking people what an appropriate time is? | 23:20 |
| fifieldt | using doodle or similar? | 23:20 |
| reed | - format: brief introduction (from the wiki page) and real life intervention on questions | 23:20 |
| fifieldt | format looks good | 23:21 |
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| reed | fifieldt, that may work too... it may require more time though | 23:21 |
| reed | you need to give people time to see the survey and respond, and then announce the date | 23:21 |
| fifieldt | choose a date, but ask for the time | 23:22 |
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| fifieldt | maybe it's like a 'registration' step | 23:22 |
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| fifieldt | you just give a couple of options | 23:22 |
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| reed | let's check with Lauren when she wants to have the PR ready to go out | 23:23 |
| fifieldt | ok | 23:23 |
| reed | maybe we have more time than that | 23:23 |
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| reed | or we just skip the announcement now and we do this training well | 23:24 |
| fifieldt | yeah, that might be a better option | 23:24 |
| reed | agreed | 23:24 |
| reed | set the bar to do this well and if we make it to the PR deadline, well, otherwise you'll mention it during your talk | 23:25 |
| reed | and we keep soft launching that way until big launch in HK | 23:25 |
| fifieldt | reed, example poll: http://doodle.com/b7agkwpgk59mdke5 | 23:26 |
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| reed | fifieldt, looking good | 23:27 |
| reed | not | 23:27 |
| reed | 5am PDT is out of question for me :) | 23:27 |
| fifieldt | :P | 23:27 |
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| fifieldt | admin link is https://doodle.com/b7agkwpgk59mdke5699uem8w/admin?tmail=poll_admin_adminlink&tlink=adminbtn | 23:28 |
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| reed | ok, will work on it later | 23:29 |
| fifieldt | we should probably move to the next topic | 23:29 |
| reed | I think we have a plan | 23:29 |
| fifieldt | agreeed | 23:29 |
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| reed | #info setting up a training session for moderators of Ask OpenStack, focusing on training new mods for Chinese language | 23:30 |
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| reed | #action reed to organize the event before Sep 14 | 23:30 |
| reed | next topic is... | 23:31 |
| fifieldt | reed to draft a blog post to describe the training sprint, link to eventbrite, objectives and process ? | 23:31 |
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| reed | fifieldt, haven't done that, fell off the list for this week | 23:31 |
| fifieldt | coolo | 23:31 |
| reed | the main reason why it fell off the list is that I need to understand it a bit more first | 23:31 |
| reed | do you have a clear picture of that whole effort? | 23:32 |
| fifieldt | it is an ambitious project! | 23:32 |
| fifieldt | sarob ran me through things | 23:32 |
| fifieldt | one meeting where it was just us two | 23:32 |
| fifieldt | it should be logged | 23:32 |
| reed | i spoke with Jonathan about it yesterday, he gave me his view | 23:32 |
| fifieldt | http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack_community/2013/openstack_community.2013-08-14-22.59.log.html | 23:33 |
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| fifieldt | has the conversation which is the sum of my knowledge more or less | 23:33 |
| reed | do you think you would be able to write the post easily? | 23:33 |
| fifieldt | maybe not easily, but I could give it a start | 23:33 |
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| reed | that'd be good, it would speed things up | 23:34 |
| fifieldt | ok, I'll get on that | 23:34 |
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| reed | I have commented on the out of date wiki pages :) | 23:34 |
| fifieldt | thank you :D | 23:35 |
| fifieldt | #info discussion on obsolete wiki pages continues on mailing list | 23:35 |
| reed | #action fifieldt to give a first stab at drafting the blog post for the training sprint | 23:35 |
| reed | so many threads :( | 23:35 |
| reed | ok, we've exausted this topic I think | 23:36 |
| fifieldt | +1 | 23:36 |
| reed | #topic status update for running projects | 23:37 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "status update for running projects (Meeting topic: openstack-community)" | 23:37 | |
| reed | #info Activity Board Dash (the Bitergia charts) are getting integrated in stackforge, first step towards a tighter integration into the official Infrastructure | 23:38 |
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| clarkb | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/44057/ | 23:38 |
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| fifieldt | :D | 23:39 |
| reed | I'm working with them to create a roadmap for the Havana report | 23:39 |
| reed | thanks clarkb... my attempts to learn puppet go in that direction too, my patch is in draft :) too embarrassed to show it | 23:40 |
| reed | i'll share it with fifieldt | 23:40 |
| reed | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/42998/ | 23:41 |
| fifieldt | :D | 23:41 |
| clarkb | don't be embarrased :) | 23:42 |
| reed | #info the Groups portal is still waiting for the server to be created. Should be ready any time now | 23:42 |
| reed | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/42608/ | 23:42 |
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| fifieldt | good, good | 23:43 |
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| reed | #info the Insights part of Activity Board is being updated to a new version. Some data (affiliation, especially) is not being updated... investigating | 23:43 |
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| fifieldt | goodo | 23:45 |
| reed | #info Ask project: waiting for an estimate (sprint plan) from the Askbot folks for adding new features (including import questions from Launchpad) and fixing some small issues | 23:45 |
| fifieldt | cool | 23:46 |
| reed | fifieldt, what's cooking on your side? | 23:46 |
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| fifieldt | well, the next post for the ambassador program went up | 23:46 |
| fifieldt | #link http://www.openstack.org/blog/2013/08/ambassador-program-specifics/ | 23:46 |
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| fifieldt | and we already have 3 applicants | 23:46 |
| fifieldt | brave people! | 23:46 |
| fifieldt | I'm going to be writing a bunch of copy for an introductory pack | 23:47 |
| fifieldt | that needs to be done before the end of sept | 23:47 |
| fifieldt | there's some discussions going on in i18n and docs to get japanese operations guide online, and chinese translation effort for same is ramping up to get it from 80% to 100% | 23:48 |
| fifieldt | the trystack survey is getting a lot more reponses now the link is on the login page | 23:48 |
| fifieldt | I started looking at the kind of analysis that could be done with this data | 23:48 |
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| fifieldt | heat made it to transifex | 23:49 |
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| fifieldt | working to update the user survey for a big push in september | 23:49 |
| reed | sounds good... when do you close the survey? or start looking into the results? | 23:49 |
| fifieldt | that's probably the ongoing projects from me | 23:49 |
| fifieldt | it's looking like the first week of october so far | 23:49 |
| fifieldt | oh | 23:49 |
| reed | the trystack survey I mean | 23:49 |
| fifieldt | trystack | 23:49 |
| fifieldt | any suggestions? | 23:49 |
| fifieldt | let me see how many results we got | 23:50 |
| fifieldt | moment | 23:50 |
| fifieldt | sitting at 61 results so far | 23:50 |
| reed | yeah, i don't think we need to rush it until we get the urgency to make any decision about trystack :) | 23:50 |
| fifieldt | yeah, even keeping it open for another month is fine I think | 23:50 |
| fifieldt | but closing some time before the summit | 23:50 |
| reed | and propose a session for design summit in hk? | 23:50 |
| fifieldt | straw man date: October 4th? | 23:50 |
| fifieldt | there is already a couple of trystack sessions proposed | 23:51 |
| fifieldt | so maybe will just provide the data to those speakers | 23:51 |
| reed | good, we'll show up with data :) | 23:51 |
| reed | fifieldt, ? when did the proposals for design summit open? | 23:51 |
| fifieldt | oh, design summit | 23:51 |
| fifieldt | sorry I meant conference | 23:51 |
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| fifieldt | we could do a design summit session, sure | 23:52 |
| fifieldt | that's a good idea | 23:52 |
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| reed | #info let's look at the data from trystack survey once the design summit opens for proposals | 23:53 |
| fifieldt | done | 23:53 |
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| reed | now, since you mentioned i18n, I think we have an issue to solve together with the infra team | 23:53 |
| fifieldt | yes? | 23:54 |
| reed | well... since transifex is not open source anymore we may want to look into alternatives | 23:54 |
| reed | and alternatives mean also provide these alternatives | 23:54 |
| fifieldt | right, indeed | 23:54 |
| reed | and the main alternative at the moment is self hosted poodle | 23:55 |
| reed | in order for the i18n team to evaluate it somebody needs to set that service up for testing | 23:55 |
| reed | i'll bring this up with jeblair and fungi | 23:55 |
| fifieldt | ta | 23:56 |
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| fifieldt | action it for the log? | 23:56 |
| jeblair | o/ | 23:56 |
| reed | the other thing to bring up with infra is the request from the UX team for an askbot instance | 23:56 |
| reed | oh, hello jeblair | 23:56 |
| fifieldt | it's jeblair! | 23:56 |
| * fifieldt bows down | 23:57 | |
| jeblair | from what i've seen of poodle, it looks really promising and has improved from last time we looked at it | 23:57 |
| reed | a couple of lines above, the i18n things | 23:57 |
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| fifieldt | s/poodle/pootle | 23:57 |
| jeblair | i'd be happy to spin one up; i don't want to be premature though, so any requirements gathering from i18n would be great | 23:57 |
| reed | right, jeblair, I have a doc from i18n ... wait | 23:57 |
| jeblair | fifieldt: oh, crap, i'm only prepared to spin up poodles! | 23:57 |
| reed | https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Aqevw3Q-ErDUdFgzT3VNVXQxd095bFgzODRmajJDeVE#gid=0 | 23:58 |
| * fifieldt has a vision of jeblair doing one of those spinning-plates-on-sticks routines, only with poodles instead of plates | 23:58 | |
| reed | it has the comparison done at the time when Transifex was chosen | 23:58 |
| * reed thinks this is the longest community meeting so far | 23:58 | |
| jeblair | i think the translation memory stuff has improved, which was the week point | 23:58 |
| jeblair | weak point even | 23:59 |
| jeblair | wow | 23:59 |
| fifieldt | that's what I heard too | 23:59 |
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