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| edleafe | #startmeeting nova_scheduler | 14:00 |
|---|---|---|
| openstack | Meeting started Mon Jul 10 14:00:35 2017 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is edleafe. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 14:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 14:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: nova_scheduler)" | 14:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'nova_scheduler' | 14:00 |
| edleafe | Good UGT morning! | 14:00 |
| edleafe | Who's here? | 14:00 |
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| dtantsur | o/ | 14:01 |
| cdent | o/ | 14:01 |
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| edleafe | jaypipes, alex_xu, bauzas - around? | 14:02 |
| alex_xu | o/ | 14:02 |
| jaypipes | yuppers. | 14:02 |
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| edleafe | Guess we'll start | 14:03 |
| edleafe | #topic Specs and Reviews | 14:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Specs and Reviews (Meeting topic: nova_scheduler)" | 14:03 | |
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| edleafe | There is a new spec | 14:03 |
| edleafe | or rather an amendment to one | 14:03 |
| edleafe | #link Amend spec for Custom Resource Classes in Flavors: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/481748/ | 14:03 |
| edleafe | This was going to be done by jroll | 14:04 |
| edleafe | Looks like it's now on me | 14:04 |
| cdent | i can probably be your off hours buddy on that? | 14:04 |
| jaypipes | edleafe: didn't you already have code for that? | 14:04 |
| jaypipes | I thought I remember reviewing that already? | 14:04 |
| edleafe | jaypipes: for my half, yes | 14:04 |
| edleafe | jroll was going to handle what needed to happen for migration | 14:05 |
| edleafe | so that when Pike starts up, the correct resources are allocated | 14:05 |
| jaypipes | ah | 14:05 |
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| dtantsur | FYI I've tried it with a devstack change, and still cannot make the tests pass: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/476968/. It may be my mistake, of course, or it may be this missing migration | 14:05 |
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| edleafe | dtantsur: tried what? | 14:05 |
| dtantsur | edleafe: sorry :) using resource classes for scheduling ironic instances | 14:06 |
| edleafe | OK, I haven't looked at that patch. | 14:06 |
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| edleafe | I'll take a look at it later | 14:06 |
| jaypipes | I will as well. | 14:07 |
| jaypipes | both the spec and the patch | 14:07 |
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| edleafe | jaypipes: do we have the code merged to use the custom RC? | 14:08 |
| edleafe | I know it was mine, but I thought there was another piece needed | 14:08 |
| jaypipes | edleafe: oh yes, since Ocata. | 14:08 |
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| jaypipes | edleafe: oh, sorry, you're talking about the flavor thing | 14:08 |
| jaypipes | edleafe: not sure on the flavor thing... need to check | 14:09 |
| edleafe | jaypipes: yeah, the patch I wrote grabbed the custom RC from extra_specs | 14:09 |
| edleafe | and added it to the 'resources' dict. | 14:09 |
| jaypipes | right | 14:09 |
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| edleafe | Well, I'll be digging into what's needed for the migration. And I'd be happy to have cdent's help (and anyone else's) | 14:10 |
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| bauzas | oh snap, forgot meeting \o | 14:11 |
| cdent | you know where to find me and I’ll look for you | 14:11 |
| * edleafe waves to bauzas | 14:11 | |
| jaypipes | stalker alert! | 14:11 |
| * bauzas bows to edleafe | 14:11 | |
| edleafe | :) | 14:11 |
| edleafe | OK, next up... | 14:11 |
| edleafe | #link Claims in the Scheduler: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/476632/ | 14:11 |
| edleafe | The first part is +W'd, so this is the only active one | 14:12 |
| edleafe | jaypipes: anything to note? | 14:12 |
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| jaypipes | edleafe: I'll respond to mriedem's comments on there. | 14:13 |
| edleafe | ok | 14:13 |
| jaypipes | edleafe: did you have further comments on it? | 14:13 |
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| bauzas | technically, we have not yet merged the bottom patch but okay | 14:13 |
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| edleafe | jaypipes: I haven't looked at it since Friday morning, so when I do I'll respond on the patch | 14:14 |
| jaypipes | k | 14:14 |
| edleafe | Oh, I almost forgot to note: | 14:14 |
| edleafe | #link Devstack to use resource classes by default https://review.openstack.org/#/c/476968/ | 14:15 |
| * edleafe wants to keep the record up-to-date | 14:15 | |
| edleafe | Moving on... | 14:15 |
| edleafe | #link Nested Resource Providers: series starting with https://review.openstack.org/#/c/470575/ | 14:15 |
| edleafe | This is still pretty much on hold, right? | 14:15 |
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| * edleafe pokes jaypipes | 14:17 | |
| jaypipes | edleafe: yeah | 14:17 |
| jaypipes | edleafe: it will pick up steam once claims are in. | 14:17 |
| edleafe | ok, just making sure | 14:17 |
| * mriedem joins late | 14:17 | |
| jaypipes | edleafe: and I add some more functional testing around the scheduler -> conductor -> compute interactions. | 14:17 |
| edleafe | Finally... | 14:17 |
| edleafe | #link Placement api-ref docs https://review.openstack.org/#/q/topic:cd/placement-api-ref+status:open | 14:17 |
| edleafe | jaypipes: let us know how we can help (besides reviews, of course) | 14:18 |
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| edleafe | Anything else for specs/reviews? | 14:19 |
| alex_xu | the traits support in the allocation candidates are submitted | 14:19 |
| alex_xu | #link the first patch https://review.openstack.org/478464 | 14:19 |
| alex_xu | #link the last one https://review.openstack.org/#/c/479776/ | 14:20 |
| jaypipes | mriedem: responded to your comments on ^ | 14:21 |
| jaypipes | mriedem: sorry, on https://review.openstack.org/#/c/476632/ | 14:21 |
| edleafe | OK, thanks alex_xu - added to my review list | 14:21 |
| alex_xu | edleafe: I also remember there is one patch from you for 'GET /resources' with traits | 14:21 |
| alex_xu | edleafe: thanks | 14:21 |
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| mriedem | jaypipes: ok, i guess i'm missing something then because when originally planning this all out, | 14:22 |
| mriedem | i thought we were going for some minimum nova-compute service version check before doing allocations in the scheduler | 14:22 |
| mriedem | such that we would no longer do the claim in the compute | 14:22 |
| mriedem | once we do the allocation in the scheduler, the claim in the compute is at best redundant but not a problem, | 14:23 |
| mriedem | at worst the claim fails because of something like the overhead calculation | 14:24 |
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| mriedem | or pci or whatever we don | 14:24 |
| mriedem | *don't handle yet in the scheduler | 14:24 |
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| jaypipes | mriedem: we can do the *removal of the claim on the compute node* once we know all computes are upgraded. but that's a different patch to what's up there now, which just does the claim in the scheduler. | 14:25 |
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| edleafe | jaypipes: so if the scheduler starts doing claims, will that cause a problem with older computes? | 14:27 |
| jaypipes | edleafe: no. | 14:27 |
| edleafe | Or will the compute claim just be a duplicate | 14:28 |
| mriedem | it's a duplicate | 14:28 |
| jaypipes | edleafe: not even duplicate. it just won't be done. | 14:28 |
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| mriedem | what do you mean it won't be done? | 14:28 |
| jaypipes | edleafe: b/c the report client only writes allocations that are not already existing. | 14:28 |
| edleafe | jaypipes: even on an old compute? | 14:28 |
| jaypipes | edleafe: yes. on ocata computes, we already do this. | 14:28 |
| mriedem | writing the allocations is part of the claim process that happens on the compute *today* yes? | 14:29 |
| edleafe | jaypipes: ok, I'll have to re-read that code | 14:29 |
| jaypipes | mriedem: yes, and the periodic audit job. | 14:29 |
| mriedem | but before we have the RT call the report client to write allocations, we're doing pci and overhead calculations | 14:29 |
| jaypipes | mriedem: correct. | 14:29 |
| mriedem | so we are still going to go through the same old claim process | 14:29 |
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| mriedem | which may fail, and trigger a retry | 14:29 |
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| jaypipes | mriedem: correct. if that happens, the allocations are deleted from the placement API. | 14:30 |
| mriedem | where? | 14:30 |
| jaypipes | in the periodic audit job. | 14:30 |
| jaypipes | update_available_resource() | 14:30 |
| jaypipes | will pick that uyp. | 14:30 |
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| mriedem | when does the alternates stuff for retries come in? | 14:31 |
| mriedem | on top of https://review.openstack.org/#/c/476632/ ? | 14:31 |
| cdent | even if something writes allocations for the same instance multiple times, it is a replace action | 14:31 |
| cdent | PUT /allocations/consumer_uuid is replace | 14:31 |
| jaypipes | mriedem: yes, the alternatives stuff needs to come after this. | 14:32 |
| jaypipes | cdent: right, but we look up existing allocations first and do nothing if nothing changed: https://github.com/openstack/nova/blob/master/nova/scheduler/client/report.py#L863 | 14:32 |
| cdent | jaypipes: yeah, I know, I was just saying that’s it’s safe even if that wasn’t happening | 14:33 |
| jaypipes | gotcha | 14:33 |
| mriedem | ok so if we leave the allocation cleanup to the periodic task, | 14:33 |
| mriedem | there is a chance you could "fill up" allocations for a compute node after a couple of failed attempts within a minute or something, | 14:33 |
| jaypipes | mriedem: yep. | 14:34 |
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| mriedem | which if you've got a lot of compute nodes and a busy cloud, should be ok... | 14:34 |
| jaypipes | mriedem: and I wrote in that comment that I could try and "undo" successful allocations in the scheduler _claim_resources() method, but that meh, eventually it'll get cleaned up by the periodic audit task on the compute | 14:34 |
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| mriedem | i have a bad feeling about relying on that | 14:35 |
| mriedem | especially when someone does nova boot with min-count 100 | 14:35 |
| mriedem | e.g. you get to 99 and novalidhost, and we don't cleanup the allocations for the first 98 | 14:36 |
| jaypipes | mriedem: I'm happy to take a go at that cleanup if you'd like. | 14:37 |
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| dansmith | the retry part of conductor could accelerate that | 14:37 |
| jaypipes | mriedem: just say the word. | 14:37 |
| mriedem | will needing to undo allocations in the scheduler slow it down for other incoming requests? we're still single worker right? | 14:37 |
| mriedem | dansmith: in this case we wouldn't get to conductor, | 14:37 |
| dansmith | mriedem: single worker but we yield when making a call to placement | 14:37 |
| mriedem | it's novalidhost | 14:37 |
| jaypipes | mriedem: there's no reason at all why the scheduler needs to be single process. | 14:37 |
| dansmith | mriedem: you mean for a failed boot that never gets retried? | 14:38 |
| mriedem | dansmith: yes | 14:38 |
| mriedem | scheduler raises NoValidHost | 14:38 |
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| dansmith | okay I'm confused about why we'd still have stale allocations in that case | 14:39 |
| dansmith | but we can discuss outside of the meeting | 14:39 |
| jaypipes | dansmith: he's talking about this code: | 14:39 |
| mriedem | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/476632/19/nova/scheduler/manager.py@128 | 14:39 |
| jaypipes | ya | 14:39 |
| jaypipes | danke mriedem | 14:39 |
| dansmith | oh I see, just in the n-instances case, I gotca | 14:40 |
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| jaypipes | mriedem: like I said, I'm happy to give a go at cleaning up already-successful allocations in that block. | 14:40 |
| jaypipes | mriedem: just say the word. | 14:40 |
| dansmith | cleanup there would be easy I think, yeah | 14:40 |
| mriedem | in general i think we should cleanup when we can | 14:40 |
| jaypipes | yeah, I'll just keep track of the instance UUIDs that succeeded. | 14:40 |
| dansmith | yep | 14:41 |
| mriedem | including when we retry from the comptue to the conductor with the alternates | 14:41 |
| jaypipes | mriedem: well, and we'll eventually want to be retrying *within* the scheduler. | 14:41 |
| dansmith | mriedem: yeah that's the case I was thinking of and have always described it as "cleanup the old, claim the next alternate" | 14:41 |
| jaypipes | but whatevs, I hear ya, I'll fix that section up. | 14:41 |
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| dansmith | jaypipes: no, we can't retry in the scheduler once we've failed on the compute node | 14:41 |
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| jaypipes | dansmith: retry on the allocation_request... | 14:41 |
| mriedem | i think jay is talking about pre-compute | 14:42 |
| mriedem | yeah | 14:42 |
| dansmith | that, yes | 14:42 |
| jaypipes | right. | 14:42 |
| dansmith | figured he meant: [07:41:04] <mriedem>including when we retry from the comptue to the conductor with the alternates | 14:42 |
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| jaypipes | yeah, sorry, no I mean the allocation candidates thing. | 14:42 |
| mriedem | retrying within the scheduler is the whole reason we decided to do it in the scheduler and not conductor | 14:42 |
| dansmith | ack | 14:42 |
| mriedem | so yeah we should do that :) | 14:42 |
| edleafe | well, that's not really a retry when the scheduler can't claim | 14:42 |
| dansmith | yeah | 14:42 |
| edleafe | just validating the host | 14:42 |
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| jaypipes | anyway, mriedem, besides the cleaning up successful allocations in that failure block, is there anything big you want changed on the patch? if not, I'll go and work on this. | 14:43 |
| mriedem | jaypipes: i think you already replied on my other things | 14:43 |
| jaypipes | the other little nits I'll get, yep | 14:43 |
| edleafe | Let's continue this in -nova | 14:43 |
| mriedem | btw, we create the allocations after the filters right? | 14:43 |
| edleafe | #topic Bugs | 14:43 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Bugs (Meeting topic: nova_scheduler)" | 14:43 | |
| edleafe | #undo | 14:43 |
| openstack | Removing item from minutes: #topic Bugs | 14:43 |
| jaypipes | mriedem: yes. | 14:44 |
| jaypipes | mriedem: and the weighers. | 14:44 |
| bauzas | sorry was a bit afk | 14:44 |
| bauzas | but I have a point about the above | 14:44 |
| edleafe | Let's keep it quick | 14:44 |
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| bauzas | given the time we still have for Pike, do folks agree with me about possibly not having the conductor passing alternatives for Pike ? | 14:45 |
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| dansmith | no I don't agree | 14:45 |
| jaypipes | bauzas: no, I think it's absoltelyuy doable for Pike to have the alternatives done. | 14:45 |
| edleafe | me too | 14:46 |
| bauzas | would it be a problem not having that for Pike ? | 14:46 |
| jaypipes | bauzas: I think we can have claims merged and ready by Wednesday and patches up for alternatives by EOW | 14:46 |
| bauzas | while I agree with all of us about why it's important, I'm just trying to be pragramatic | 14:46 |
| dansmith | bauzas: yes, without that we're toast for the proper cellsv2 arrangement | 14:46 |
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| cdent | yeah, we pretty much have to do it | 14:47 |
| dansmith | bauzas: we can be pragmatic when we're out of time, but we're not there, IMHO | 14:47 |
| bauzas | okay | 14:47 |
| jaypipes | we need to get alternatives done, flavors for resource classes complete, and claims done. | 14:47 |
| dansmith | ack | 14:47 |
| jaypipes | those are absolutes for Pike. | 14:47 |
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| jaypipes | nested stuff is nice to have, and we've made a bit of progress on it already. | 14:47 |
| bauzas | and shared-RP, and custom-RP? :) | 14:47 |
| bauzas | yeah, that's my point | 14:47 |
| mriedem | shared is done | 14:47 |
| bauzas | well, agreed | 14:48 |
| mriedem | allocation candidates takes care of shared, at least for disk | 14:48 |
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| edleafe | mriedem: well, not completely done | 14:48 |
| edleafe | mriedem: we don't handle complex RPs | 14:48 |
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| jaypipes | mriedem: well, almost... still need a way to trigger the compute node to not want to claim the disk when shared provider is used... | 14:48 |
| bauzas | okay, tbc, I don't disagree with the direction, I'm just trying to see what is left for Pike | 14:48 |
| edleafe | mriedem: like a compute with both local and shared | 14:48 |
| * alex_xu puts the trait's priority low, focus on review the priority stuff | 14:48 | |
| jaypipes | mriedem: but that is a short patch that all the plumbing is ready for. | 14:48 |
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| jaypipes | edleafe: we don't *currently* handle that. | 14:49 |
| jaypipes | edleafe: so that's not something I'm worried about yet | 14:49 |
| edleafe | jaypipes: exactly - which was going to be the subject I wanted to discuss in Opens | 14:49 |
| jaypipes | kk | 14:49 |
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| edleafe | but we are quickly running out of time | 14:49 |
| jaypipes | there is always #openstack-nova, ed :) | 14:49 |
| * edleafe blinks | 14:50 | |
| edleafe | Really?? | 14:50 |
| edleafe | :) | 14:50 |
| bauzas | anyway | 14:50 |
| bauzas | I don't want to confuse people | 14:50 |
| edleafe | Let's try to move on again... | 14:50 |
| edleafe | #topic Bugs | 14:50 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Bugs (Meeting topic: nova_scheduler)" | 14:50 | |
| edleafe | #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/nova/+bugs?field.tag=placement | 14:50 |
| edleafe | Only one new bug: | 14:50 |
| edleafe | #link The AllocationCandidates.get_by_filters returned wrong combination of AllocationRequests https://bugs.launchpad.net/nova/+bug/1702420 | 14:50 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1702420 in OpenStack Compute (nova) "The AllocationCandidates.get_by_filters returned wrong combination of AllocationRequests" [High,In progress] - Assigned to Alex Xu (xuhj) | 14:51 |
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| edleafe | alex_xu reported this one, and is working on it. | 14:51 |
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| edleafe | alex_xu: any problems with that? | 14:51 |
| alex_xu | edleafe: no, just waiting for review | 14:51 |
| edleafe | great | 14:51 |
| edleafe | Anything else on bugs? | 14:51 |
| edleafe | #topic Open Discussion | 14:52 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: nova_scheduler)" | 14:52 | |
| edleafe | I had one concern: the change to return a list of HostState objects from the scheduler driver to the manager. IMO, we really need the host to be associated with its Allocation object so that a proper claim can be made. The current design just returns hosts, and then picks the first allocation that matches the hosts RP id. | 14:52 |
| edleafe | In the case of a host that has both local and shared storage, there will be two allocation candidates for that host. The current design will choose one of those more or less at random. | 14:52 |
| edleafe | Jay has said that when we begin to support such complex RPs, we will make the change then. Since we are changing the interface between manager and driver now, wouldn't it be best to do it so that when we add complex RPs, we don't have to change it again? | 14:52 |
| dansmith | if you haven't requested a trait of shared or not-shared, then at-random is fine right? | 14:53 |
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| edleafe | dansmith: in that case, yes | 14:53 |
| edleafe | but in the case of local vs. public net for PCI, probably not | 14:53 |
| jaypipes | to be clear, the code just selects the first allocation request containing the host's RP ID. so yeah, there's no order to it. | 14:54 |
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| mkucia | Hi. I am wondering how the driver will be handling ResourceProviders? Will there be a dedicated class (ResourceProviderDriver) for each provider type? | 14:54 |
| dansmith | in the case of network, if your flavors say "give me a pci net device but I don't care which kind" then you're asking for at random, no? | 14:54 |
| edleafe | jaypipes: you can keep the randomness for now | 14:54 |
| dansmith | agree it would be a dumb thing to do, but.. | 14:54 |
| edleafe | jaypipes: I was concerned about having to change the interface yet again in Queens | 14:55 |
| edleafe | dansmith: again, in that particular case, you would be correct | 14:55 |
| edleafe | but that's not my point | 14:55 |
| jaypipes | edleafe: this is an internal interface. I'm not concerned at all about that. | 14:55 |
| mriedem | me neither | 14:55 |
| mriedem | and this is no worse than what we have today right? | 14:55 |
| jaypipes | edleafe: I mean, we need to change the RPC interface for alternatives support, and that's major surgery. This stuff was just a botox injection compared to that. | 14:56 |
| mriedem | i'm more concerned about the <3 weeks to FF | 14:56 |
| dansmith | mriedem: ++ | 14:56 |
| bauzas | botox, heh | 14:56 |
| edleafe | ok, fine. | 14:56 |
| bauzas | mriedem: me too, hence my previous point | 14:56 |
| jaypipes | edleafe: you agree the RPC change is much more yes? | 14:56 |
| edleafe | It just wasn't what we had originally discussed, and it raised a flag for me | 14:56 |
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| edleafe | jaypipes: of course | 14:56 |
| jaypipes | understod. | 14:56 |
| jaypipes | understood, edleafe and I appreciate your concerns on it. As you saw, I went through a bunch of iterations on thinking about those internal changes | 14:57 |
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| jaypipes | edleafe: but returning the HostState objects instead of the host,node tuples allowed us to isolate pretty effectively the claims code in the manager without affecting the drivers at all. | 14:57 |
| edleafe | As long as we all realize that this will have to change yet again in Queens, sure | 14:58 |
| cdent | change is and always will be inevitable | 14:58 |
| jaypipes | edleafe: certainly it may. but again, I'm less concerned about internal interfaces than the RPC ones. | 14:58 |
| edleafe | how trite | 14:58 |
| * cdent is trite | 14:58 | |
| cdent | always has been, always will be | 14:58 |
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| edleafe | jaypipes: I was more concerned about saying we will do X, and finding Y | 14:59 |
| bauzas | 1 min left | 14:59 |
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| edleafe | As long as we get to X eventually | 14:59 |
| edleafe | That's it - thanks everyone! | 15:00 |
| edleafe | #endmeeting | 15:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 15:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Mon Jul 10 15:00:07 2017 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 15:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova_scheduler/2017/nova_scheduler.2017-07-10-14.00.html | 15:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova_scheduler/2017/nova_scheduler.2017-07-10-14.00.txt | 15:00 |
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| cdent | thanks edleafe | 15:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova_scheduler/2017/nova_scheduler.2017-07-10-14.00.log.html | 15:00 |
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| leong | hi.. is anyone here for Product WG meeting? | 20:00 |
| leong | #startmeeting product_working_group | 20:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Mon Jul 10 20:01:18 2017 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is leong. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 20:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 20:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: product_working_group)" | 20:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'product_working_group' | 20:01 |
| leong | #chair shamail | 20:01 |
| openstack | Warning: Nick not in channel: shamail | 20:01 |
| openstack | Current chairs: leong shamail | 20:01 |
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| * leong waiting for rest to join in before we have quorum | 20:05 | |
| leong | #endmeeting | 20:06 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 20:06 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Mon Jul 10 20:06:52 2017 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 20:06 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/product_working_group/2017/product_working_group.2017-07-10-20.01.html | 20:06 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/product_working_group/2017/product_working_group.2017-07-10-20.01.txt | 20:06 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/product_working_group/2017/product_working_group.2017-07-10-20.01.log.html | 20:06 |
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| leong | #startmeeting product_working_group | 21:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Mon Jul 10 21:00:23 2017 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is leong. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 21:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 21:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: product_working_group)" | 21:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'product_working_group' | 21:00 |
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| leong | #chair shamail | 21:00 |
| openstack | Warning: Nick not in channel: shamail | 21:00 |
| openstack | Current chairs: leong shamail | 21:00 |
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| Arkady_Kanevsky | hello PWG | 21:01 |
| pchadwick | Hello all | 21:01 |
| leong | hi Arkady_Kanevsky pchadwick | 21:01 |
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| rockyg | Hey all! | 21:01 |
| * leong waiting for folks to join in.... | 21:01 | |
| leong | hi rockyg | 21:01 |
| MeganR | Hello! | 21:02 |
| * leong joined the meeting an hour ago and realize nobody is there LOL | 21:02 | |
| leong | hi MeganR | 21:02 |
| leong | #topic Rollcall | 21:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Rollcall (Meeting topic: product_working_group)" | 21:02 | |
| leong | let's wait for another 2 minutes for other folks to join in | 21:03 |
| leong | i have Leong Arkady_Kanevsky pchadwick rockyg MeganR | 21:03 |
| leong | am i missing anyone? | 21:03 |
| rockyg | don't see mrhillsman or AndyU | 21:04 |
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| shamail | o/ | 21:04 |
| leong | #chair shamail | 21:04 |
| openstack | Current chairs: leong shamail | 21:04 |
| annabelleB | hello! | 21:04 |
| leong | i think we have quorum to start now.. :) | 21:04 |
| Arkady_Kanevsky | lets go | 21:04 |
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| leong | #link Agenda https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/product-team | 21:04 |
| leong | please find the above link for today Agenda | 21:04 |
| leong | #topic Review of action items | 21:05 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Review of action items (Meeting topic: product_working_group)" | 21:05 | |
| leong | #link Previous Meeting Notes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/product_working_group/2017/product_working_group.2017-06-26-21.01.html | 21:05 |
| Arkady_Kanevsky | I had se nt email on wiki change. | 21:05 |
| Arkady_Kanevsky | Waiting for feedback | 21:05 |
| leong | thanks Arkady_Kanevsky, i saw that email and generally looks good to me | 21:06 |
| Arkady_Kanevsky | let's setup feedback deadline date and I will start making chnages after it | 21:06 |
| shamail | +1 | 21:06 |
| rockyg | LGTM | 21:06 |
| leong | i also sent email regarding the PWG teleconf midcycle, so far feedback is "ok", no objection.. | 21:06 |
| leong | Arkady_Kanevsky: what about end of this week or next? | 21:07 |
| mrhillsman | o/ | 21:07 |
| Arkady_Kanevsky | for midcycle did we agreed on full day(s) or a few hputs over multiple days? | 21:07 |
| leong | welcome mrhillsman | 21:07 |
| Arkady_Kanevsky | Leong +1 on deadline on feedback | 21:07 |
| leong | Arkady_Kanevsky: i think we first need to agree to be "teleconf" ? | 21:07 |
| rockyg | ++ | 21:07 |
| leong | Arkady_Kanevsky: end of this Fri? | 21:07 |
| Arkady_Kanevsky | agree. But think we have that alerady. | 21:07 |
| Arkady_Kanevsky | Yes on end of friday. | 21:08 |
| leong | #action all PWG please review the Wiki changes proposal from Arkady_Kanevsky by end of this Friday EOD | 21:08 |
| leong | #topic Midcycle video conferencing | 21:08 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Midcycle video conferencing (Meeting topic: product_working_group)" | 21:08 | |
| leong | let's discuss about the midcycle plan | 21:09 |
| leong | i believe the general consensus is to organise Teleconf, can we agreed on this? | 21:09 |
| Arkady_Kanevsky | +1 on teleconf | 21:09 |
| pchadwick | +1 | 21:09 |
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| MeganR | +1 | 21:09 |
| rockyg | +1 | 21:10 |
| * leong looks like shamail just kicked out while we are making a decision.. lol :) | 21:10 | |
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| shamail | I'd be interested in a virtual midcycle (sry connection issues) | 21:10 |
| leong | #agreed PWG agreed to organize a midcycle Teleconf | 21:11 |
| leong | now let's talk about the date, time, full/half-day/multiple days | 21:11 |
| leong | what's your thoughts? | 21:11 |
| shamail | Should we send a doodle poll? | 21:11 |
| pchadwick | Doodle makes sense | 21:12 |
| leong | any preferences on dates, give me a few, at least say in Aug or Sep? | 21:12 |
| shamail | Sept is better for me personally | 21:12 |
| pchadwick | Sept +1 | 21:12 |
| Arkady_Kanevsky | August 29 Tu second half of the day | 21:12 |
| leong | My preferences also Sep | 21:13 |
| Arkady_Kanevsky | Do we want to block the week of PTL? Spet 10-15? | 21:13 |
| leong | what about the rest? MeganR rockyg ? | 21:13 |
| leong | mrhillsman: | 21:13 |
| leong | ? | 21:13 |
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| leong | Arkady_Kanevsky: +1 | 21:14 |
| mrhillsman | i will be at ptg | 21:14 |
| rockyg | Half days are good. I think AndyU suggested that. | 21:14 |
| MeganR | I have a tough time knowing exact dates at the moment, will need to travel Aug/Sep, but do not have specific dates yet. | 21:14 |
| MeganR | I would prefer half days. | 21:14 |
| leong | are we going to have multiple "half day"? | 21:14 |
| pchadwick | Doesn't that depend on how much we put on the agenda? | 21:15 |
| shamail | pchadwick: +1 | 21:15 |
| Arkady_Kanevsky | Tuesday and Friday afternoons are better for me. | 21:15 |
| leong | 3 half-days? US friendly, EU friendly + APAC friendly? | 21:15 |
| shamail | Let's start building an agenda and then determine how many days | 21:15 |
| Arkady_Kanevsky | 2 topics per 1/2 day on agenda sound good. | 21:15 |
| leong | shamail / pchadwick : +1 | 21:16 |
| rockyg | I would suggest not doubling up over the PTG or Ops Midcycle, but otherwise.... before 9/21 | 21:16 |
| Arkady_Kanevsky | I think majority is US. but let's see who will respond to doodle | 21:16 |
| pchadwick | OK | 21:16 |
| rockyg | A few may be in EU, but most in US. | 21:17 |
| leong | ok folks, i just created an etherpad here for midycle agenda: https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/VIR-pwg-meetup | 21:17 |
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| shamail | Thanks! | 21:17 |
| leong | #link Virtual Midcycle Planning: https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/VIR-pwg-meetup | 21:17 |
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| leong | #action All please propose agenda on the midcycle etherpad link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/VIR-pwg-meetup | 21:19 |
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| mrhillsman | what would the link be if there was another? | 21:19 |
| shamail | VIR2 :) or VIR-(cycle) | 21:20 |
| Arkady_Kanevsky | Let's send etherpad pointer on email and request agedna items. | 21:20 |
| mrhillsman | maybe VIR-pwg-meetup-sept-2017 or yeah ^ | 21:20 |
| rockyg | Arkady_Kanevsky, ++ | 21:21 |
| mrhillsman | minor thing really but just thinking | 21:21 |
| leong | mrhillsman: just append to the top :) | 21:21 |
| Arkady_Kanevsky | can we change etherpad page name? do not think etherpad support aliases | 21:22 |
| leong | ok.. let's do it now ... | 21:22 |
| shamail | No, it would have to be a new etherpad. | 21:22 |
| leong | hand on | 21:22 |
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| leong | #link New PWG virtual midcycle etherpad link: https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/VIR-pwg-meetup-2017q3 | 21:24 |
| shamail | Hey, my Q3 may not be the same your Q3! | 21:24 |
| * shamail sees himself out of the room | 21:24 | |
| shamail | :) | 21:24 |
| mrhillsman | hehe | 21:24 |
| Arkady_Kanevsky | Leong, are you goint to transfer content between etherpads? | 21:24 |
| leong | Arkady_Kanevsky: just done | 21:24 |
| shamail | Thanks leong | 21:25 |
| MeganR | Shamail: you laugh, but that is actually true for me :) | 21:25 |
| leong | #action All please propose agenda on the midcycle etherpad link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/VIR-pwg-meetup-2017q3 | 21:25 |
| leong | shamail: lol.. | 21:26 |
| shamail | MeganR: I know a lot of companies like that so it jumped out at me. | 21:26 |
| shamail | Anyway, this name is fine. We get it. :) | 21:26 |
| MeganR | we have to be different! | 21:26 |
| leong | sorry MeganR and shamail ...:p | 21:26 |
| shamail | I'm calendar aligned! | 21:26 |
| shamail | I'll add items throughout the week, thanks for creating it. | 21:27 |
| MeganR | I'll adjust! | 21:27 |
| leong | thanks :) | 21:27 |
| AndyU | Sorry to have joined late, but should we be voting for preferred date(s)? | 21:27 |
| leong | AndyU: the team suggested to define the Agenda first before we decide how many days are required | 21:27 |
| AndyU | ok. makes good sense | 21:28 |
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| leong | ok.. let's move on next topic | 21:28 |
| leong | #topic Sydney Summit/Forum preparation | 21:28 |
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| *** openstack changes topic to "Sydney Summit/Forum preparation (Meeting topic: product_working_group)" | 21:28 | |
| Arkady_Kanevsky | usual roamdap update submission? | 21:29 |
| leong | #info Summit proposal submission CFP deadline - July 14 at 11:59 pm PT | 21:29 |
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| annabelleB | I’ve submitted a CFP for the roadmap on behalf of the group | 21:29 |
| annabelleB | Happy to add in additional presenters as people confirm their Sydney travel plans | 21:29 |
| shamail | Thanks for that annabelleB | 21:29 |
| annabelleB | np! | 21:30 |
| leong | thanks annabelleB , are you going to co-present with shamail / or maybe pchadwick ? | 21:30 |
| pchadwick | Thanks annabelleB - I am pretty sure I will be there. | 21:30 |
| Arkady_Kanevsky | I plan to be there also | 21:30 |
| annabelleB | pchadwick: perfect! was going to drop you an email today :) | 21:30 |
| leong | i also plan to be there but subject to travel approval :) | 21:30 |
| Arkady_Kanevsky | any other submission from the group? | 21:30 |
| shamail | leong: I will most likely not be in Sydney so pchadwick, annabelleB, +1 | 21:30 |
| leong | shamail: sure! | 21:31 |
| shamail | I just would like to ensure that the presenters actively participate in the roadmap creation | 21:31 |
| pchadwick | shamail +1 | 21:31 |
| Arkady_Kanevsky | +1 | 21:31 |
| leong | pchadwick: i assume you are comfortable with that? :) | 21:31 |
| pchadwick | Yes | 21:31 |
| AndyU | Sydney is still up in the air for me | 21:31 |
| shamail | Anyone think we should propose a PWG overview session? | 21:31 |
| leong | I assume we should also submit a BoF and Working Session? | 21:31 |
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| AndyU | BoF +1 | 21:32 |
| Arkady_Kanevsky | do we want to submit status of proposal we are driving? | 21:32 |
| shamail | leong: +1 | 21:32 |
| pchadwick | Do we have any idea if there is an expectation that we will get a lot of new attendees due to the location? | 21:32 |
| leong | shamail: is "overview session" = BoF? | 21:32 |
| shamail | annabelleB: do you know if we need to submit BoF and Working session through CFP or Forum process? | 21:32 |
| annabelleB | pchadwick: I have a hunch so. But also think it will be newcomers to OpenStack and on some level cloud entirely | 21:33 |
| shamail | leong: yes, overview = BoF | 21:33 |
| annabelleB | shamail: I believe so, but I’ll double check right now | 21:33 |
| shamail | pchadwick: every Summit has been ~50% first time attendees for several years now | 21:33 |
| AndyU | BoF was via Conference process | 21:33 |
| leong | shamail: i believe BoF and WG fall under the same CFP process (as per previous experience) | 21:33 |
| shamail | Thanks annabelleB | 21:33 |
| pchadwick | OK - so overview/BOF makes sense. | 21:33 |
| Arkady_Kanevsky | + for BOF | 21:34 |
| rockyg | Nope. I looked at the website for submissions. Says the Bofs are different. | 21:34 |
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| rockyg | But Forum is through the CFP. Last time, BoFs used same process, but after the summit submissions were through | 21:34 |
| leong | i think the "submission" is through CFP, but "selection" is different from CFP process | 21:35 |
| shamail | Forum is separate from CFP, we will open Forum registration in Fall | 21:35 |
| annabelleB | ::pinged team for clarification, awaiting response:: | 21:35 |
| Arkady_Kanevsky | what about sessions on upgrade, HA, others? | 21:35 |
| rockyg | I think we should propose a Forum session for how to empower sigs, wgs to work with devs to get to specs and/or bps | 21:35 |
| shamail | +1 for the Forum session | 21:36 |
| leong | annabelleB: thanks! please ask and let us know :-) | 21:36 |
| AndyU | Dev proposals should submit for Forum session | 21:36 |
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| leong | #action annabelleB to verify if we should submit BoF and WG session through the same CFP process | 21:36 |
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| rockyg | Ah. Then Forum should also get a * next to it on the CFP page? | 21:36 |
| Arkady_Kanevsky | melvin, do we have an etherpad for forum ideas? | 21:36 |
| mrhillsman | not yet | 21:36 |
| leong | other than BoF, WG working session and Roadmap, anything else? | 21:37 |
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| AndyU | Might bneed a forum session to INTRODUCE sigs | 21:37 |
| mrhillsman | we have a timeline and will send general announcement when ready | 21:37 |
| shamail | Arkady_Kanevsky: stay tuned. We decided to launch Forum scheduling in Sept. | 21:37 |
| mrhillsman | ++ | 21:37 |
| Arkady_Kanevsky | OK | 21:37 |
| leong | do we plan to run the "hashtag" program again at Sydney forum? | 21:38 |
| shamail | Any other CFP submissions? | 21:38 |
| rockyg | ++ | 21:38 |
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| rockyg | We should | 21:38 |
| mrhillsman | if i can drop a line here, please add sessions for the ops midcycle | 21:38 |
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| rockyg | Maybe we can get the devs to, also at the PTG | 21:38 |
| mrhillsman | https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/MEX-ops-meetup | 21:38 |
| shamail | leong: I am hesitant since we never delivered any outputs from the previous summit. It seems like we don't have the resources to own that process for now. | 21:38 |
| mrhillsman | since we are talking about sessions and most times they carry-over | 21:38 |
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| AndyU | what about trying to meet with product managers for major contributors to discuss priorities/objecvtives / seek alignmnet around dev proposals? | 21:39 |
| shamail | Thanks mrhillsman | 21:39 |
| leong | shamail: from previous summit, the output we delivered is the individual hashtag data generated from each etherpad | 21:39 |
| leong | but we didn't get a chance to "summarize" it | 21:39 |
| rockyg | AndyU, that should be added to Forum etherpad | 21:39 |
| shamail | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/MEX-ops-meetup | 21:39 |
| leong | shamail: i agree with you that we might have limited resources to own that hashtag process now | 21:40 |
| shamail | leong: sorry, that is what I meant. I know we have the output but we didn't share anything beyond the raw data. | 21:40 |
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| pchadwick | AndyU - is your proposal re PMs for Sydney or Mexico City? | 21:40 |
| shamail | A more efficient path might be for us to just help reach out to moderators after the event so they can send a summary. | 21:41 |
| mrhillsman | ^ was just typing that | 21:41 |
| mrhillsman | would have been great to have a summary from mods | 21:41 |
| AndyU | @Rocky - I added the topic to the mid-cycle agenda | 21:41 |
| shamail | Yeah, plus they have all the context | 21:41 |
| mrhillsman | ++ | 21:41 |
| leong | mrhillsman / shamail : agreed :-) | 21:41 |
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| rockyg | AndyU, yeah. We need to talk about it before we schedule a forum session for it ;) | 21:41 |
| shamail | pchadwick: I think he was referring to Forum (not Ops) | 21:42 |
| leong | so my conclusion is that we ran the ##hashtag program and didn't find it effective to summarize the context ? | 21:42 |
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| pchadwick | shamail - makes sense | 21:42 |
| shamail | We ran the program, it gave us raw data but we didn't have resources to generate summaries. The value for the community is in the summary. | 21:42 |
| AndyU | +1 to asking moderatoprs to provide Summary, but need to communicate the expectation up front (as a responsibility of a moderator) | 21:42 |
| mrhillsman | i don't think it was onboarded well enough, easier to control during ops midcycle vs forum | 21:42 |
| Arkady_Kanevsky | I think we have raw data and no resources to convert it to action | 21:43 |
| mrhillsman | ^ | 21:43 |
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| leong | mrhillsman: so do you plan to run that ##hashtag again in upcoming midcycle? | 21:43 |
| mrhillsman | yes | 21:44 |
| AndyU | Also about Forum Summaries - would be nice to have them in a wiki page linked to the page with the etherpads. Have them in one place vs fragmented across various mailing lists? | 21:44 |
| shamail | Awesome mrhillsman | 21:44 |
| leong | awesome mrhillsman | 21:44 |
| mrhillsman | i think most folks found the idea not too obtrusive and we can use midcycle to continue to move it to being useful | 21:44 |
| shamail | Good idea AndyU | 21:44 |
| leong | also a great path/way to start from small group of folks before turning into forum? | 21:45 |
| leong | plus soliciting feedback/improvement | 21:45 |
| shamail | They can post summaries to a centralized wiki page but still share it out via ML so there can be discussion if needed. | 21:45 |
| shamail | leong: +1 | 21:46 |
| leong | mrhillsman: let me know if there is any way that i can help with the hashtag program in the upcoming Ops midcycle... | 21:46 |
| AndyU | true - and emails could link to the wiki and be less verbose ; | 21:46 |
| shamail | AndyU: +1 | 21:46 |
| mrhillsman | definitely | 21:46 |
| leong | #agreed Continue to adopt the ##hashtag program at Ops midcycle | 21:46 |
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| AndyU | We'll need to provide a template and some guidance I think. I added Forum planning to the mid-cycle agenda | 21:47 |
| * shamail sneaks out (have to be somewhere in 10 min) | 21:47 | |
| leong | #agreed Will drop ##hashtag program for forum, we pilot at Boston summit, generate some raw data but didn't have resources to generate summaries. | 21:47 |
| rockyg | So, for Forum summaries, you'll get push back from some Devs. Some would like to kill Wikis | 21:47 |
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| leong | that's true rockyg | 21:47 |
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| AndyU | The hashtag output could also be linked from the Forum session/etherpad wiki page | 21:48 |
| rockyg | They don't like that old info sits out there that becomes false info. | 21:48 |
| rockyg | So, many PTLs will just send to ML. We could link to the archive of the email on the Wiki page, though. | 21:48 |
| leong | anything else to discuss for Sydney? | 21:49 |
| rockyg | I think a Wiki is a lot more useful for nondevs and noncommunity members. Much easier to find stuff. | 21:50 |
| AndyU | +1 Rocky | 21:50 |
| Arkady_Kanevsky | + rocky | 21:50 |
| leong | as long as the wiki provide "accurate/up-to-date" info :-) | 21:50 |
| AndyU | MANY operators who will be at the Summit are not in the mailing lists. Also the volume of mail can be overwhelming to sift through. | 21:50 |
| pchadwick | AndyU +1 | 21:51 |
| AndyU | So I like the cross linking idea | 21:51 |
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| AndyU | Maybe we could also propose using an email tag like [Forum Update] or some such in mail lists? | 21:52 |
| rockyg | Yeah. It gives non-dev folks a way to see what happened. And as long as we make the top level Forum page identified with *which* forum, and a date, the info never *gets* outdated | 21:52 |
| mrhillsman | got to jet so i will catch the rest of the notes this evening | 21:52 |
| leong | #topic Community Roadmap | 21:52 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Community Roadmap (Meeting topic: product_working_group)" | 21:52 | |
| rockyg | thanks mrhillsman ! | 21:52 |
| leong | annabelleB / pchadwick : do you have any update for community roadmap? | 21:53 |
| leong | ttyl mrhillsman | 21:53 |
| pchadwick | I do not | 21:53 |
| annabelleB | me either | 21:53 |
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| pchadwick | But would propose that we start with the Boston version | 21:53 |
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| pchadwick | that format seemed to work well. | 21:53 |
| leong | annabelleB / pchadwick : so do we have enough info to generate the upcoming community roadmap? | 21:54 |
| mrhillsman | side note, we have an official if it channel, #openstack-uc so feel free to drop anything there | 21:54 |
| mrhillsman | ttyl | 21:54 |
| mrhillsman | official irc channel | 21:54 |
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| annabelleB | timeline wise, i imagine we’ll get most of our info for the queens roadmap post-Denver, but I’m new to the process :) | 21:55 |
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| pchadwick | leong I have not started looking closely yet, but assume we can follow a similar process to get data from PTLs | 21:55 |
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| rockyg | annabelleB, Yeah. You're right there. I think a key will be to make sure the PTLs know how to pass on their Queens decisions to the PWG Roadmap folks | 21:56 |
| Arkady_Kanevsky | do we do interviews or questionare for PTL this time? | 21:56 |
| Arkady_Kanevsky | we need to pair down projects list and only deal with "offocial" projetcs | 21:56 |
| leong | annabelleB: you might want to check with Heidi on the timeline | 21:56 |
| annabelleB | It sounded like the questionare worked well | 21:56 |
| rockyg | Arkady_Kanevsky, I think mostly the questionnaires | 21:56 |
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| leong | btw, the link to the community roadmap is broken: https://www.openstack.org/software/roadmap/ | 21:57 |
| pchadwick | Questionnaire worked well. | 21:57 |
| pchadwick | leong works for me | 21:57 |
| leong | if you go to the above link ,and scroll down to "Read the community-generated roadmap", <-- this link is broken | 21:57 |
| annabelleB | leong: to that landing page or to a specific asset there? i have no problem with the page | 21:57 |
| annabelleB | ah, i’ll sort that out | 21:58 |
| leong | thanks annabelleB | 21:58 |
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| leong | #action annabelleB to check the asset link "Read the community-generated roadmap" at https://www.openstack.org/software/roadmap/ | 21:58 |
| pchadwick | leong - it gets me to here: https://www.openstack.org/assets/software/roadmap/Community-Generated-Roadmap-PQR-cycles.pdf | 21:58 |
| leong | pchadwick: yup. that link is missing | 21:58 |
| leong | i mean: that pdf | 21:59 |
| leong | i hit 404 | 21:59 |
| pchadwick | I'm looking at it now ;) | 21:59 |
| rockyg | Before you all leave, just wanted to relay some humorous info... it seems there are some in the community spreading the false info that the PWG is dead. | 21:59 |
| Arkady_Kanevsky | i have access to https://www.openstack.org/assets/software/roadmap/Community-Generated-Roadmap-PQR-cycles.pdf | 21:59 |
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| rockyg | I get the 404 | 21:59 |
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| leong | #topic open | 22:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open (Meeting topic: product_working_group)" | 22:00 | |
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| leong | all please continue to review readiness accessment: https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/PWG-development-proposal-readiness | 22:00 |
| leong | we just hit the hour.. thanks everyone for your time! | 22:00 |
| Arkady_Kanevsky | thanks all | 22:00 |
| leong | talk to you next time! | 22:00 |
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| pchadwick | thanks - ttyl | 22:00 |
| rockyg | CYa! | 22:00 |
| *** pchadwick has left #openstack-meeting-alt | 22:01 | |
| leong | #endmeeting | 22:01 |
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| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 22:01 | |
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| openstack | Meeting ended Mon Jul 10 22:01:04 2017 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 22:01 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/product_working_group/2017/product_working_group.2017-07-10-21.00.html | 22:01 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/product_working_group/2017/product_working_group.2017-07-10-21.00.txt | 22:01 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/product_working_group/2017/product_working_group.2017-07-10-21.00.log.html | 22:01 |
| AndyU | bye All | 22:01 |
| jeblair | howdy zuul folks | 22:01 |
| fungi | howdy dr nick! | 22:01 |
| * rbergeron passes out meat for meeting time since she's here | 22:01 | |
| jeblair | meating time | 22:01 |
| jlk | o/ | 22:01 |
| * mordred waves | 22:01 | |
| Shrews | hola | 22:01 |
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| * jlk was just seconds away from passing out. | 22:01 | |
| * rockyg wonders if that's red meat or.... | 22:02 | |
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| jeblair | jlk: if you haven't passed out by the end, then it's not a proper meeting | 22:02 |
| jeblair | #startmeeting zuul | 22:02 |
| openstack | Meeting started Mon Jul 10 22:02:46 2017 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is jeblair. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 22:02 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 22:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: zuul)" | 22:02 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'zuul' | 22:02 |
| * fungi needs to start drinking asap in that case | 22:02 | |
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| rbergeron | it's whateever your favorite meat is. veggiemeat or beef-meat or fish-meat or ... popsicle-meat. your call :) | 22:03 |
| jeblair | #link agenda https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/Zuul | 22:03 |
| jeblair | #link previous meating http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/zuul/2017/zuul.2017-06-26-22.02.html | 22:03 |
| jeblair | #topic Actions from last meeting | 22:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Actions from last meeting (Meeting topic: zuul)" | 22:03 | |
| jeblair | jlk look into moving depends-on to pull-request summary to see if it is both workable and a solution to the needed-by problem | 22:03 |
| jlk | Done and done. | 22:03 |
| mordred | wow. last meeting was a long time ago it feels | 22:03 |
| jeblair | mordred: it was 2 weeks ago, which is ages in zuul time! | 22:04 |
| jlk | Turns out it was easier all around to use the pull request summary. | 22:04 |
| fungi | that's at least 6mos in zuul years | 22:04 |
| jlk | so, thanks to those of you that pushed in that direction. | 22:04 |
| jeblair | jlk: and i belive that merged, right? | 22:04 |
| jlk | correct | 22:04 |
| jeblair | #topic Status update: standard job library | 22:05 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Status update: standard job library (Meeting topic: zuul)" | 22:05 | |
| jeblair | mordred: this thing is starting to be a thing, eh? | 22:05 |
| mordred | yah! | 22:05 |
| mordred | we have jobs in zuul-jobs, and they're running tests on zuul | 22:05 |
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| fungi | it's true, i saw one | 22:06 |
| mordred | and the speculative job stuff totally works - AND - they're parameterized and not openstack specific :) | 22:06 |
| jeblair | i have an outstanding change related to this... | 22:06 |
| mordred | I'm cranking currently on getting all of the standard tox jobs done, as well as the copied-in-shell-scripts ansible-ified | 22:06 |
| jeblair | #link config shadowing https://review.openstack.org/479084 | 22:07 |
| mordred | but we're self-aware enough that hacking on the jobs using zuul to test that the jobs work is neat | 22:07 |
| jlk | mordred: do you want some help with that? Divide and conquer mode, or just fast follow reviews? | 22:07 |
| jeblair | once that change merges, we'll be able to move the base job into zuul-jobs and have a local override version of it in project-config | 22:07 |
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| Shrews | mordred: that's so meta | 22:07 |
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| mordred | btw - I added a job o the zuul-jobs repo called tox-py35-on-zuul - which grabs the zuul repo and runs the tox py35 job content on it - on changes to the zuul-jobs repo | 22:07 |
| mordred | jlk: Id' love some! let's sync up after the meeting to divy up the list | 22:08 |
| jlk | ack | 22:08 |
| jeblair | #info tox-py35-on-zuul job runs the zuul py35 job on changes to zuul-jobs to better exercise unittest jobs on changes to zuul-jobs | 22:08 |
| mordred | jeblair: you enjoyed writing that didn't you? :) | 22:09 |
| jeblair | mordred: i like saying the words "zuul" and "jobs" | 22:09 |
| jeblair | so yes | 22:09 |
| jeblair | after the config-shadowing change merges, i'd like to ask other folks (bonnyci, tobiash, tristanC) to try using zuul-jobs locally as well | 22:09 |
| mordred | ++ | 22:10 |
| mordred | won't THAT be exciting? | 22:10 |
| jlk | ack | 22:10 |
| jeblair | it should be reasonable to do so once that lands, and it will be really good to have a wide corpus of reviewers on that repo -- it's the future zuul commons. :) | 22:10 |
| mordred | next we'll need to figure out how to write ajob that validates that changes to zuul-jobs don't break something in bonnyci | 22:11 |
| jeblair | (the config shadowing gives folks an escape hatch so that zuul-jobs doesn't take over anything you don't want it to) | 22:11 |
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| jeblair | #info after config shadowing change lands, non-openstack users should try using zuul-jobs | 22:12 |
| jeblair | anything else in this topic? | 22:12 |
| jeblair | #topic Status updates: Documentation | 22:13 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Status updates: Documentation (Meeting topic: zuul)" | 22:13 | |
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| jeblair | #info big documentation refactor landed | 22:13 |
| jeblair | #link zuul v3 docs https://docs.openstack.org/infra/zuul/feature/zuulv3/ | 22:13 |
| jeblair | there is *a lot* more we can do there | 22:13 |
| jlk | it's really nice to have docs to point to again though | 22:14 |
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| jeblair | in particular, there's lots of room for examples (both in-line, and longer examples in the form of appendixes) | 22:14 |
| jeblair | but yeah, it's a thing. :) | 22:14 |
| mordred | oh - did we update the README to link to that? | 22:15 |
| jeblair | also, i need to do something to get us anchors on all the job keywords, etc, so we can deep link to them | 22:15 |
| jeblair | mordred: no that's a good idea though | 22:15 |
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| jeblair | a while back we suspended the "changes should have docs" rule to facilitate faster iteration. i think that's no longer required, so i think we should reinstate that rule now. | 22:16 |
| jlk | I owe an action to add more meat to the github docs, particularly app vs API key and depends-on | 22:16 |
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| jeblair | i think we should make allowances for changes which have been in development for a while -- we can add documentation for those in followup patches | 22:17 |
| fungi | that seems like a reasonable compromise | 22:17 |
| jlk | +1 on the rule + compromise | 22:17 |
| jeblair | but let's at least remind ourselves that we should do that, and start leaving -1s on patches which need doc updates and don't have them | 22:18 |
| jeblair | leaving -1s on *new* patches... | 22:18 |
| jeblair | #info now that the new doc structure has merged, new changes should once again be accompanied with documentation updates | 22:18 |
| jeblair | #action jlk add meat to github docs re app setup and depends-on | 22:19 |
| jeblair | #action jeblair make anchors for keywords | 22:19 |
| jeblair | #action mordred add v3 doc link to readme | 22:20 |
| jeblair | other than that, i think we can drop this section from the standing agenda. | 22:20 |
| jeblair | any objections to that or anything else on this topic? | 22:20 |
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| fungi | sounds fine to me | 22:21 |
| jeblair | #topic Status update: GitHub parity | 22:21 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Status update: GitHub parity (Meeting topic: zuul)" | 22:21 | |
| jeblair | jlk: are we at parity? :) | 22:21 |
| jlk | I think it's time for a parity party! | 22:21 |
| rbergeron | can we do parodies at the parity party? | 22:21 |
| jlk | Depends-on was the last bit to land I think. | 22:22 |
| jeblair | i'm going to dress up as a stop bit | 22:22 |
| rbergeron | while wearing parrot-tees? | 22:22 |
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| jlk | I'm going to wear a pair of Ts | 22:22 |
| jeblair | jlk: woot! | 22:22 |
| rbergeron | OMG | 22:22 |
| * fungi wants to be flow control | 22:22 | |
| rbergeron | you are in my head | 22:22 |
| rbergeron | sorry, i interrupted the flow of actual things | 22:23 |
| jeblair | rbergeron: just for that, i'm dropping this topic from the agenda too! | 22:23 |
| mordred | \o/ | 22:23 |
| jlk | +1 | 22:23 |
| fungi | error correction will just add it back you know | 22:23 |
| jeblair | #topic Status updates: (web) console streaming | 22:23 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Status updates: (web) console streaming (Meeting topic: zuul)" | 22:23 | |
| mordred | jlk, jeblair: we still need cross-source depends-on right? but that's not a parity thing - that's a whole new thing both drivers need | 22:23 |
| jeblair | mordred: ya | 22:23 |
| jlk | yup | 22:23 |
| jeblair | Shrews: your websocket server has merged! | 22:24 |
| Shrews | Let us all rejoice and hail our new websocket overlord! | 22:24 |
| Shrews | the new thing is zuul-web, which conjures up images of the spider from LoTR in my head | 22:24 |
| mordred | \o/ | 22:24 |
| jeblair | Shrews: shelob? | 22:24 |
| SpamapS | can we rejoice all at once or are we single threaded but async rejoicing? | 22:25 |
| rbergeron | yes. | 22:25 |
| mordred | SpamapS: YES | 22:25 |
| Shrews | SpamapS: you are so terrible | 22:25 |
| jeblair | we need to do some puppet work in infra in order to run it (any volunteers?) | 22:25 |
| * rbergeron hides | 22:25 | |
| * SpamapS poll()'d the channel | 22:25 | |
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| mordred | jeblair: I'll do it if nobody else does - I'm kinda getting annoyed at our current init script situation anyway | 22:26 |
| jeblair | tobiash handed us some html we can run, and i think Shrews is going to work on incorporating that into zuul + status page so we can actually have links and stuff | 22:26 |
| jlk | ಠ_ಠ | 22:26 |
| Shrews | yes | 22:26 |
| Shrews | to the status page stuff | 22:26 |
| jeblair | mordred: ack -- though i think some of the problems are actually zuul problems | 22:26 |
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| jeblair | #action mordred make infra init script for zuul-web in puppet-zuul | 22:27 |
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| mordred | jeblair: some of them may be zuul problems for sure - but before we go live they need to stop being problems wheever they are | 22:27 |
| jeblair | mordred: yes. just chat with me about them before you go change everything. :) | 22:27 |
| mordred | jeblair: too late. already done in production ;) | 22:28 |
| jamielennox | having zuul-web be it's own repo with some proper deployment tools would actually be kind of useful | 22:28 |
| jamielennox | ansible downloading jquery and copying files into apache is pretty ugly | 22:28 |
| jamielennox | but not super important | 22:29 |
| jeblair | i don't think zuul-web has any jquery yet, but the old webapp does, so i guess you mean when we port that over to zuul-web | 22:29 |
| mordred | we poked a long time ago at using bower, etc for the javascript thigns, but there were so few of them it didn't seem worth it | 22:30 |
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| fungi | so looknig for some sort of (hopefully ecosystem-standard) javascript dependency management solution? | 22:30 |
| jamielennox | oh, sorry confusing bits, but yes preferably before making it any more complicated | 22:30 |
| mordred | it may be getting to be time to think about the strategy for managing those | 22:30 |
| mordred | fungi: yah - that | 22:30 |
| fungi | could always borrow the design storyboard is using for teh webclient i suppose | 22:31 |
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| mordred | one of the interesting outcomes of that is the ability to point test-patch versions of html/js at the live storyboard api endpoint - which is a thing we could certainly also do here as well | 22:32 |
| fungi | seems to use bower/grunt | 22:32 |
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| fungi | #link http://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack-infra/storyboard-webclient/tree/package.json storyboard webui packaging metadata | 22:33 |
| fungi | for reference | 22:33 |
| jeblair | mordred: that may be useful for the dashboard functionality | 22:33 |
| jeblair | whatever we come up with needs to be comprehensible by everyone. i do not want to end up in a situation where no one on the team understands the tooling. i'd rather have crappy shell scripts than something that no one knows how to use. | 22:33 |
| fungi | up side is we already have (granted jjb) job definitions for dealing with that stuff | 22:33 |
| mordred | jeblair: agree | 22:34 |
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| jeblair | (and i'm not saying that's not bower/grunt, it may well be. i'm just saying let's be realistic about the number of folks on the team that are interested in working on fashionable js technlogies. otherwise we will dig a hole for ourselves.) | 22:34 |
| jeblair | anyway, i think we at least have the next few steps of this laid out. | 22:35 |
| jeblair | and i'm very excited about seeing our first websocket log streamed :) | 22:36 |
| fungi | yep, my suggestion was more around common tooling and community building vs some bespoke tooling that only the zuul reviewers understand ;) | 22:36 |
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| jeblair | anything else? | 22:37 |
| fungi | i'm also not opposed to what we did in v2 and just provided instructions for setting up the status page (plus a convenience script for downloading javascript deps) | 22:37 |
| fungi | nothing else on my end | 22:37 |
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| Shrews | await mordred.install_zuul_web() | 22:37 |
| jeblair | Shrews has the lingo | 22:38 |
| jeblair | #topic Status update: Zuul test enablement | 22:38 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Status update: Zuul test enablement (Meeting topic: zuul)" | 22:38 | |
| jeblair | i think this topic took a vacation | 22:38 |
| jeblair | maybe next week | 22:39 |
| jeblair | #topic Progress summary | 22:39 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Progress summary (Meeting topic: zuul)" | 22:39 | |
| jeblair | #link https://storyboard.openstack.org/#!/board/41 | 22:39 |
| jeblair | i think we've actually been doing a reasonable job keeping the board up to date | 22:40 |
| jeblair | i've been putting a bunch of my punchlist items in there, and jlk added some stuff from our meeting with ansible folks | 22:40 |
| jeblair | anyway, there's still stuff out there if folks want to pick things up | 22:41 |
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| SpamapS | sorry I looked away at the wrong moment | 22:41 |
| SpamapS | I did a sweep through and updated a few stale bits last week | 22:42 |
| jeblair | SpamapS: you were looking into a new tag... any news on that? | 22:42 |
| SpamapS | jeblair: I think we should still do it, but I don't have a definitive plan written up yet. Basically we need to combine mordred's roadmap idea with my zuulv3.0 tag or something like that. | 22:43 |
| SpamapS | and then we can start kicking a few things off zuulv3 onto zuulv30 | 22:43 |
| jeblair | SpamapS: ok, let's bat some ideas around later. | 22:44 |
| mordred | ++ | 22:44 |
| jeblair | anything else? | 22:44 |
| jeblair | #topic Open Discussion | 22:45 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: zuul)" | 22:45 | |
| jeblair | mordred: want to talk about openstack rollout? | 22:47 |
| mordred | I do! | 22:47 |
| mordred | SO ..... | 22:47 |
| mordred | *drum roll* | 22:47 |
| mordred | we're getting close everybody | 22:47 |
| mordred | so close that I started writing up thoughts on openstack rollout process and timetable | 22:48 |
| fungi | ooh! | 22:48 |
| mordred | I was hoping to have them ready by today's meeting - but I didn't quite get there | 22:48 |
| mordred | but - the tl;dr is that I believe we're in a position to actually start making plans and projecting completion times | 22:49 |
| mordred | I'll try to have the first draft of the proposal done by tomorrow | 22:49 |
| rbergeron | "speculative future state of zuul" | 22:49 |
| jeblair | mordred, fungi: let's add that to the infra meeting agenda maybe? | 22:49 |
| mordred | fungi: do you think it should be in the form of an infra-spec? a mailing list email? or both? | 22:49 |
| fungi | wfm | 22:49 |
| mordred | jeblair: that's a great idea | 22:49 |
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| jeblair | (i'll edit the wiki) | 22:50 |
| rbergeron | iguess it's not speculative but just when it will land :) also, me with the words today is bad at this moment | 22:50 |
| fungi | we can touch on it in the priority efforts section of the meeting tomorrow and see where we want to go with specs, mailing list threads, what have you | 22:50 |
| mordred | it's also worth noting that with that, we're also getting to the point where folks may wantto start paying attention to patches to zuul-jobs | 22:50 |
| mordred | fungi: cool | 22:50 |
| Shrews | rbergeron: is good. hard is the words when end day of is near | 22:51 |
| mordred | words | 22:51 |
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| * jlk has to sneak out. Cheers. | 22:53 | |
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| jeblair | mordred: would it be useful to take your plan in progress and have it in an etherpad for tommorow's infra meeting? | 22:54 |
| mordred | jeblair: that's a great idea. yes | 22:54 |
| fungi | excellent. feel free to link it on the agenda if you get a moment | 22:54 |
| jeblair | cool, seems like that might be a good place to start, then we can decide whether that's ready to just go to the list, or bake in a spec or become a wiki page, or an entry in system-config or what... :) | 22:55 |
| jeblair | (or maybe even remain an etherpad :) | 22:55 |
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| fungi | awesome | 22:56 |
| jeblair | i'm excited. i think we're really close to getting this rolling. :) | 22:57 |
| jeblair | if that's all, let's use the remaining 2 minutes to pass out. | 22:58 |
| mordred | ++ | 22:58 |
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| fungi | i'd like to start pondering what we might be able to do with zuul jobs at the ptg in denver | 22:58 |
| mordred | writing jobs for v3 has actually been quite pleasant | 22:58 |
| mordred | fungi: I think you'll like my document then | 22:59 |
| fungi | i'm sure i'd like it anyway | 22:59 |
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| jeblair | oh good. let's make a decision about how much zuuling we're going to do at the ptg soon so we make sure folks who want to come have time to plan. | 22:59 |
| jeblair | thanks everyone! | 23:00 |
| jeblair | #endmeeting | 23:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 23:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Mon Jul 10 23:00:14 2017 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 23:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/zuul/2017/zuul.2017-07-10-22.02.html | 23:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/zuul/2017/zuul.2017-07-10-22.02.txt | 23:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/zuul/2017/zuul.2017-07-10-22.02.log.html | 23:00 |
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| fungi | thanks jeblair! | 23:01 |
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