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| irenab | #startmeeting pci-passthrough | 13:03 |
|---|---|---|
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Aug 19 13:03:18 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is irenab. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 13:03 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 13:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: pci-passthrough)" | 13:03 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'pci_passthrough' | 13:03 |
| irenab | hi | 13:03 |
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| rpothier | hi | 13:03 |
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| heyongli | hi | 13:04 |
| irenab | let's wait few mins for others to join | 13:05 |
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| sadasu | Hello! | 13:05 |
| irenab | hi! | 13:06 |
| irenab | let's start | 13:06 |
| sadasu | I have uploaded a new changeset | 13:06 |
| sadasu | irenab: I have taken care of all of your comments afsik | 13:06 |
| sadasu | please take a look and provide comments | 13:06 |
| heyongli | any topic relate to me, i'm afraid i will leave soon | 13:07 |
| irenab | sadasu: Thank you. I will try to review later today. | 13:07 |
| sadasu | irenab: gr8. thanks | 13:07 |
| irenab | I wanted to discuss what next development we want to promote as part of the team | 13:08 |
| irenab | heyongli: is there anything you want to raise? | 13:08 |
| heyongli | none for today | 13:08 |
| irenab | rpothier: I think that nova side is quite in a good shape, feels like will be merged soon | 13:09 |
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| heyongli | irenab, yeah, nova part is good now | 13:10 |
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| irenab | as for the additional tasks, anything someone want to iniutially discuss here, shall we set an agenda or send to ml? | 13:11 |
| rpothier | irenab: Robert is looking into a test failure, otherwise in good shape | 13:11 |
| heyongli | mail list is good | 13:11 |
| heyongli | pull more attention, maybe | 13:11 |
| irenab | I think we need to provide a way to define VM with SR-IOV vNIC, did someone considered HEAT? | 13:12 |
| sadasu | any other specific item in the agenda? | 13:12 |
| irenab | not for me | 13:13 |
| rpothier | irenab: I can look into HEAT | 13:13 |
| irenab | rpothier: great, so if possible share your understanding next week | 13:14 |
| rpothier | irenab: ok | 13:14 |
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| irenab | sadasu:we have a refactoring at neutron side for code consolidation as future item | 13:15 |
| sadasu | any insights from NFV that has relevance to sr-iov? | 13:15 |
| sadasu | irenab: correct | 13:15 |
| irenab | sadsu: exactly what I wanted to ask :-) | 13:15 |
| sadasu | irenab: haven't had a chance to take a look into latest in NFV | 13:16 |
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| irenab | I'll follow heyongli suggestion and send a question to ml, I do not think it was something specific, but we may get some information at ml | 13:16 |
| sadasu | ok | 13:17 |
| irenab | I'll look at NFV till next week as well | 13:17 |
| heyongli | copy us from ml. or topic as pci? | 13:17 |
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| irenab | heyongli: sure | 13:18 |
| irenab | #action rpothier to investigate HEAT for VM with SRIOV config | 13:18 |
| irenab | #action irenab to send mail to openstack-dev on next SR-IOV netowrking requests | 13:18 |
| irenab | #action irenab to look at NFV requirements | 13:19 |
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| irenab | any other ideas, suggestions? | 13:19 |
| sadasu | support for multi-segment networks? | 13:19 |
| sadasu | and security groups? | 13:19 |
| irenab | sadsu: which means? | 13:20 |
| sadasu | those were questions that were raised during my BP | 13:20 |
| irenab | sadasu:do you think securuty group support can impact non vendor part ? | 13:20 |
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| sadasu | I responded saying that we will investigate for the next release | 13:21 |
| sadasu | irenab: depends on what solution we pick... | 13:21 |
| irenab | I am not sure about multi-segment networks, but for security groups seems it should be resolved and neutron ML2 MD(MDs) level | 13:21 |
| sadasu | actually it may not affect the sr-iov mech drivers at all | 13:22 |
| irenab | sadsu: but let's put 2 these topics in the list | 13:22 |
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| sadasu | it will have to be configured on the upstream switch and handled by a diff mech driver | 13:22 |
| sadasu | but that config may have to be triggered by the sr-iov mech drivers | 13:22 |
| sadasu | very initial thoughts on this | 13:23 |
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| irenab | sadasu: ok, just seems it won't impact nova side | 13:23 |
| sadasu | irenab: agreed. thats why I brought it up | 13:23 |
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| sadasu | irenab: correct. I can take this as my action item | 13:24 |
| sadasu | but currently focussed on getting my code upstream | 13:24 |
| irenab | #action sadasu to investigate on security groups and multi-segment networks | 13:24 |
| irenab | sadsu: sure | 13:24 |
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| irenab | do you see any other pieces we need to push for Juno? | 13:25 |
| irenab | at client side? | 13:25 |
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| sadasu | for Juno mech driver refactoring | 13:25 |
| irenab | we defenitly need documentation... | 13:25 |
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| irenab | sadsu: I think it is better to push after your MD is merged | 13:26 |
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| sadasu | irenab: yes and adding sr-iov specific tempest tests | 13:26 |
| irenab | sadsu: +2 | 13:27 |
| sadasu | I think they have their own process which I am not completely aware of...so chances are tempest tests would make it only in kilo | 13:27 |
| irenab | I'll follow up with all tasks mentioned and asking more at ML | 13:28 |
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| sadasu | cool | 13:28 |
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| irenab | any more issues to discuss or we can finish early? | 13:28 |
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| sadasu | I think we are good to finish early | 13:29 |
| irenab | I think once patches are merged we can be back to white noard and see wha agenda to promote for kilo | 13:30 |
| irenab | s/noard/board | 13:30 |
| irenab | great, I am going to close the meeting. | 13:30 |
| irenab | Good luck with reviews! | 13:31 |
| irenab | #endmeeting | 13:31 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 13:31 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Aug 19 13:31:27 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 13:31 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/pci_passthrough/2014/pci_passthrough.2014-08-19-13.03.html | 13:31 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/pci_passthrough/2014/pci_passthrough.2014-08-19-13.03.txt | 13:31 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/pci_passthrough/2014/pci_passthrough.2014-08-19-13.03.log.html | 13:31 |
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| adrian_otto | #startmeeting containers | 16:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Aug 19 16:00:04 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is adrian_otto. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 16:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 16:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: containers)" | 16:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'containers' | 16:00 |
| adrian_otto | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/Containers#Agenda_for_2014-08-19_1600_UTC Our Agenda | 16:00 |
| adrian_otto | #topic Roll Call | 16:00 |
| adrian_otto | Adrian Otto | 16:00 |
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| *** openstack changes topic to "Roll Call (Meeting topic: containers)" | 16:00 | |
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| apmelton | Andrew Melton | 16:00 |
| thomasem | Thomas Maddox | 16:00 |
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| adrian_otto | hi guys | 16:00 |
| dguryanov | Hi | 16:00 |
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| diga | Hi | 16:01 |
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| thomasem | howdy | 16:01 |
| sew | o/ | 16:01 |
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| mtesauro | o/ | 16:01 |
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| adrian_otto | looks like we have a niced size group in attendance today. | 16:02 |
| adrian_otto | let's begin | 16:02 |
| adrian_otto | #topic Announcements | 16:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Announcements (Meeting topic: containers)" | 16:03 | |
| adrian_otto | First of all, we have an agenda item to cover the details and progress on our spec submission for an OpenStack containers service, so we will get to that in just a moment. | 16:03 |
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| *** dickson.freenode.net changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 16:03 | |
| adrian_otto | are there any other announcements from team members? | 16:03 |
| diga | Hello guys, this is first meeting on containers for openstack | 16:04 |
| adrian_otto | we had no action items assigned last week, so I will skip that point in our agenda | 16:04 |
| adrian_otto | diga: welcome!! | 16:04 |
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| adrian_otto | do you want to take a moment to introduce yourself to the team? Totally optional. | 16:04 |
| diga | working in docker since a month & interested to contribute to nova-docker | 16:04 |
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| adrian_otto | excellent. We are happy to have you, diga! | 16:05 |
| diga | yeah | 16:05 |
| adrian_otto | ok, so to the main event | 16:05 |
| adrian_otto | #topic Discuss Specs for OpenStack Containers Service | 16:05 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Discuss Specs for OpenStack Containers Service (Meeting topic: containers)" | 16:05 | |
| diga | Thanks you adrian | 16:05 |
| adrian_otto | so for anyone who missed the email to openstack-dev, it is here: | 16:06 |
| adrian_otto | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2014-August/043113.html Email Thread | 16:06 |
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| adrian_otto | the proposal was initially submitted to nova-specs (in accordance from guidacne from the Nova team) | 16:06 |
| adrian_otto | it is here, and I would appreciate your review and input to refine it: | 16:06 |
| adrian_otto | #link https://review.openstack.org/114044 Spec Proposal | 16:06 |
| erw | o/ | 16:07 |
| adrian_otto | we do have a couple of open questions, from Mr. Herve, which we can discuss today. | 16:07 |
| adrian_otto | erw: welcome! | 16:07 |
| adrian_otto | I also submitted a request for a Stackforge repo. That is here: | 16:07 |
| apmelton | adrian_otto: I added a bit to the spec etherpad, will move those over to the spec review | 16:07 |
| adrian_otto | #link https://review.openstack.org/115328 Stackforge Repo Review | 16:07 |
| adrian_otto | apmelton: thanks! | 16:07 |
| adrian_otto | so, I'd like to get impressions for the team about how we are doing, and get a sense if you agree we are on the right track, or if we should do some steering. | 16:08 |
| adrian_otto | thoughts? | 16:09 |
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| diga | Good | 16:09 |
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| diga | guys i'll go through all our specs | 16:09 |
| diga | for the start | 16:10 |
| adrian_otto | digatx | 16:10 |
| adrian_otto | diga: tx | 16:10 |
| diga | Welcome | 16:10 |
| adrian_otto | I'll give you all a moment to scan through as I know I just dumped a bunch of text on you. | 16:11 |
| dguryanov | Will it be possible to create privileged container using containers service? | 16:11 |
| adrian_otto | dguryanov: yes. | 16:11 |
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| thomasem | Yes, that's currently the only way that works since we can't nest unprivileged yet, afaik. | 16:11 |
| dguryanov | Thanks | 16:11 |
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| adrian_otto | the only short term caveat is that if you choose to use nova-docker as your virt driver | 16:11 |
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| adrian_otto | in that case. we need additional kernel features for container nesting that are in flight | 16:12 |
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| adrian_otto | erw, do you have additional comments on this subject? | 16:12 |
| erw | adrian_otto: not really. | 16:12 |
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| erw | adrian_otto: I concur ? :) | 16:12 |
| adrian_otto | :-) | 16:13 |
| adrian_otto | fair enough | 16:13 |
| sew | we're able to nest plain old lxc containers in unprivileged containers | 16:13 |
| sew | just not docker containers | 16:13 |
| thomasem | sew: Oh, right! Thanks for the correction. :) | 16:13 |
| adrian_otto | sew, yeah, the difference is the filesystem mount requiring CAP_SYS_ADMIN right? | 16:13 |
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| sew | we got past that, but john hopper was not able to solve permission issues wrt auplink | 16:15 |
| adrian_otto | if anyone has a link to patches that change the capabilities code in the Linux kernel to allow for the unprivileged nesting, I would like to record that somewhere for the Team so we can keep track of it, and advocate for getting it in. | 16:15 |
| adrian_otto | sew… humm. | 16:15 |
| sew | we see behavior like this user: https://gist.github.com/garthk/8555808 | 16:16 |
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| adrian_otto | ok. | 16:17 |
| funzo | adrian_otto: sorry, got caught up in some other stuff | 16:17 |
| adrian_otto | do we know anyone who understands auplink well enough to address that? | 16:17 |
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| adrian_otto | hi funzo | 16:17 |
| dguryanov | What about interacting with cinder using containers API? I think we should add a call to mount cinder volume to a given mountpoint | 16:18 |
| dguryanov | So the one could use baremetal host as instances and request mounting cinder volumes to containers | 16:19 |
| adrian_otto | dguryanov: good question. That's something we could probably do using the agent. | 16:19 |
| adrian_otto | actually wait | 16:19 |
| adrian_otto | maybe not, depending on how the network topology is set up | 16:20 |
| apmelton | dguryanov: the way I see it, the cinder volume would need to be exposed to the container group and from there the container | 16:20 |
| adrian_otto | we might need to have something in nova-compute add it to the host, and then find a way to expose them to containers | 16:20 |
| adrian_otto | right | 16:20 |
| adrian_otto | we should capture this on a backlog. | 16:21 |
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| adrian_otto | we should have a wishlist bug queue where we can land stuff like this. | 16:21 |
| dguryanov | So first you should use attach_volume from nova api - cinder volume appear as /dev/sdb, for example | 16:21 |
| * adrian_otto feels an action item swelling | 16:21 | |
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| adrian_otto | #action adrian_otto to create an LP project, and bug tracker for containers. | 16:22 |
| funzo | so use the ironic driver, then use nova attach-volume, then have the containers API be able to use the attached volume? | 16:22 |
| dguryanov | And how to mount it to /my_storage inside a container ? | 16:22 |
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| adrian_otto | ok, let's table this for now, and come back to it | 16:24 |
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| adrian_otto | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/114044/2/specs/kilo/containers-service.rst review comments | 16:25 |
| adrian_otto | line 212 | 16:25 |
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| adrian_otto | my thoughts on the API are that it would be really great to have compatibility with existing tools for containers | 16:26 |
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| adrian_otto | and because we will have different backends, that having a way to run some variants of the API on the front-end would be handy | 16:26 |
| adrian_otto | Heat had this same concern | 16:26 |
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| adrian_otto | when it was struggling with whether to have the Heat native API, or the AWS one, or both, and others | 16:27 |
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| adrian_otto | the solution chosen in that case was that we'd have a common base API that other variants could be bound to. | 16:27 |
| adrian_otto | I am not suggesting that we pin the base API to Docker's API | 16:28 |
| thomasem | It'd just be an easier translation for Docker. | 16:28 |
| adrian_otto | but I'd like us to consider having that as the first top-level API that we expose for clients | 16:28 |
| adrian_otto | and tool makers can select the API option that makes the most sense | 16:28 |
| adrian_otto | if we get too opinionated about this, we risk getting bypassed completely | 16:29 |
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| dguryanov | I don't think it's possible to have the same API as docker | 16:29 |
| dguryanov | because containers will use resources from openstack | 16:29 |
| adrian_otto | so I'd like to find a way to strike a healthy balance, where we are providing additional value and simplicity | 16:29 |
| dguryanov | like images, volumes, networking | 16:29 |
| adrian_otto | dguryanov: I think image integration can be done, as evidenced by recent work in nova-docker | 16:30 |
| dguryanov | So there should be an API call to connect container to openstack | 16:30 |
| apmelton | even if it was possible to use the same API, maintaining compatibility is going to be a huge pain | 16:30 |
| dguryanov | to openstack's virtual network with given ID | 16:30 |
| adrian_otto | and I am not convinced that differences in networking or volumes would influence the API much | 16:30 |
| apmelton | and maintaining all of the cruft that already exists in the docker api | 16:30 |
| thomasem | ^^ that's one concern. I would prefer we didn't inherit like deprecated things | 16:31 |
| thomasem | In an effort to support tooling that requires older versions | 16:31 |
| adrian_otto | apmelton: I acknowledge that trying to keep API's synchronized for compatibility is a chore. The question is if it's worth it. | 16:31 |
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| thomasem | I originally thought Docker's API was to be used as a reference point... a starting point, but not the ultimate API to implement for a v1.0 or something. | 16:32 |
| adrian_otto | thomasem: consider if we just invent a new API, our interoperability challenges are worse. | 16:33 |
| apmelton | adrian_otto: our interoperability challenges with docker are worse | 16:33 |
| adrian_otto | thomasem: my idea is that it be our first implementation, and that we iterate on a base API from taht | 16:33 |
| adrian_otto | keeping the Docker implementation as a binding to that more complete base API | 16:33 |
| apmelton | my issue with that is the docker implementation has a ton of cruft that we have to maintain | 16:34 |
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| adrian_otto | apmelton: ok, I recognize that there is stuff you don't like in there | 16:34 |
| adrian_otto | let's consider for a moment that we catalog, and address that stuff | 16:34 |
| thomasem | I'd rather set the expectation immediately that the container service API won't always adhere to the existing Docker API. | 16:35 |
| adrian_otto | and that we make no attempt to do backward compatibility to old clients, just whatever the recent release is of prevailing popular tools. | 16:35 |
| dguryanov | I think we should explicitly list all API calls, which we are going to implement in containers service | 16:35 |
| adrian_otto | and if we hear "it does not work with docker 0.0.0.0.1" we can respond with "upgrade to 1.1.x" or whatever | 16:35 |
| thomasem | And how will we handle features that other technologies provide that docker doesn't in the future? | 16:36 |
| adrian_otto | thomasem: add them to the base API | 16:36 |
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| adrian_otto | the coker binding does not implement them | 16:36 |
| adrian_otto | s/coker/docker/ | 16:37 |
| thomasem | Okay. So, really we're not following the Docker API around, just using it as a starting 'sane' point. | 16:37 |
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| adrian_otto | but perhaps an LXC centric user can use another binding, or the tooling can just integrate with the base API directly | 16:37 |
| apmelton | my issue is this, the docker api is not a base API, it is very opinionated | 16:38 |
| adrian_otto | thomasem: yes, I'm suggesting we use that as the starting point | 16:38 |
| adrian_otto | apmelton: agreed | 16:38 |
| adrian_otto | the base API will iterate considerable away from that | 16:38 |
| adrian_otto | my advice is not to get too deep into engineering a grand unification API at step 1. | 16:38 |
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| apmelton | at the mid-cycle it was discussed that docker cli support would be provided by plugins to docker that could talk to our api | 16:41 |
| * adrian_otto1 was disconnected for a moment there | 16:41 | |
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| adrian_otto1 | I hope the other idles off before I need to do the endmeeting command | 16:42 |
| thomasem | Lol | 16:42 |
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| thomasem | Oh, yes. apmelton, I was just thinking of the REST endpoints, but the datatypes and what-not - I didn't think about that. | 16:42 |
| adrian_otto1 | apmelton: yes, we could do that regardless | 16:43 |
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| thomasem | wrt apmelton's comment on the spec | 16:43 |
| adrian_otto1 | I thought the question is what should be the first version of the base API | 16:43 |
| apmelton | from my understanding at the mid-cycle, our first version was going to be very simple | 16:44 |
| adrian_otto1 | yes. | 16:44 |
| apmelton | that it was not going to support many of the things that docker supported | 16:44 |
| adrian_otto1 | do you have a sense of which things make sense to omit? | 16:45 |
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| adrian_otto1 | I think we are in complete agreement that we want an iterative approach starting simple, and building on that. | 16:45 |
| apmelton | for a beta release, everything except create container and delete container | 16:46 |
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| apmelton | create container should contain simple things like environment variables | 16:46 |
| apmelton | and maybe process listing and signals | 16:47 |
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| adrian_otto1 | ok | 16:48 |
| adrian_otto1 | so what should our next steps be with respect to an API proposal? | 16:48 |
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| adrian_otto1 | or maybe asking another way, what would you like to see in the proposal that would cause you to vote +1 on it | 16:49 |
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| apmelton | I'd like to see the beginnings of an api definition | 16:50 |
| apmelton | REST endpoints and data types | 16:50 |
| dguryanov | Let's create etherpad page for it | 16:50 |
| thomasem | Is there already and etherpad for collaborating on the API spec? | 16:50 |
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| thomasem | Like we had for container service, agent, host relay | 16:50 |
| adrian_otto1 | let's make one now. one sec | 16:51 |
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| adrian_otto1 | I found an old one at https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/containers-service-api | 16:51 |
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| thomasem | hmmm | 16:52 |
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| adrian_otto | Apparently the Nova team disliked this approach a year ago | 16:52 |
| adrian_otto | I don't have specifics about what the actual objections were | 16:52 |
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| thomasem | Yeah, I don't know either. | 16:53 |
| apmelton | I'd be interested to know if they disliked the idea of the service, or the api itself | 16:53 |
| adrian_otto | but let's each look at this, and share our thoughts. Should we use it, or do we need to start again? | 16:53 |
| apmelton | back then, the containers service was proposed as something completely separate right? | 16:54 |
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| adrian_otto | I am going to proceed to open discussion | 16:54 |
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| adrian_otto | we can continue this discussion, or take new topics | 16:54 |
| adrian_otto | #topic Open Discussion | 16:54 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: containers)" | 16:54 | |
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| adrian_otto | crickets | 16:57 |
| thomasem | This would need some changes to support the nested nature of the service. Also, some top-level attributes probably need to be deeper to group appropriate things together | 16:57 |
| * apmelton is looking over the etherpad | 16:57 | |
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| apmelton | thomasem: do you mean containers nested in container groups? | 16:58 |
| thomasem | yeah | 16:58 |
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| apmelton | i'm not sure that's necessary, especially considering we'd like the end user to not have to worry about container groups if they don't want to | 16:59 |
| thomasem | So, we wouldn't return to them the container group UUID? | 16:59 |
| thomasem | to use if they want it? | 16:59 |
| adrian_otto | ok, we timed out for today | 17:00 |
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| adrian_otto | let's continue in #openstack-containers | 17:00 |
| adrian_otto | thanks everyone | 17:00 |
| adrian_otto | #endmeeting | 17:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 17:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Aug 19 17:00:20 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 17:00 |
| thomasem | take it easy! | 17:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/containers/2014/containers.2014-08-19-16.00.html | 17:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/containers/2014/containers.2014-08-19-16.00.txt | 17:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/containers/2014/containers.2014-08-19-16.00.log.html | 17:00 |
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| ruhe | #startmeeting murano | 17:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Aug 19 17:01:45 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is ruhe. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 17:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 17:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: murano)" | 17:01 | |
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| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'murano' | 17:01 |
| serg_melikyan | o/ | 17:01 |
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| gokrokve_ | o/ | 17:02 |
| gokrokve_ | Can we add to agenda two items? | 17:02 |
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| ruhe | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/MuranoAgenda#Agenda | 17:02 |
| ruhe | gokrokve_: sure | 17:02 |
| gokrokve_ | 1) Discuss Murano participation in programms | 17:02 |
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| gokrokve_ | 2) Discuss what we miss to fully support image based applications | 17:03 |
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| ruhe | gokrokve_: ack. these topics will go right after the action items review | 17:03 |
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| ruhe | #topic action items review | 17:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "action items review (Meeting topic: murano)" | 17:04 | |
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| ruhe | there was only one action item - ruhe to release python-muranoclient 0.5.4 | 17:04 |
| ruhe | and i've released it last week | 17:04 |
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| sjmc7 | yay! | 17:04 |
| ruhe | just to make sure everybody's aware. we have a separate launchpad project for python-muranoclient | 17:05 |
| stanlagun | o/ | 17:05 |
| ruhe | #link https://launchpad.net/python-muranoclient | 17:05 |
| ruhe | so, please file client related bugs and blueprints in this project | 17:05 |
| gokrokve_ | ok | 17:06 |
| ruhe | we need this because clients have their own versioning schedule | 17:06 |
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| ruhe | ok. moving to next topic | 17:06 |
| ruhe | suggested by gokrokve_ | 17:06 |
| ruhe | #topic Discuss Murano participation in programms | 17:06 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Discuss Murano participation in programms (Meeting topic: murano)" | 17:06 | |
| ruhe | gokrokve_: your turn | 17:06 |
| gokrokve_ | https://docs.google.com/a/mirantis.com/document/d/1kYvERC49bJ_qkHL2-RjyRh9JRnZGN1SAaqGRpogIC_I/edit#heading=h.nvnyp0onyt0 | 17:06 |
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| gokrokve_ | Here is a document with high level description of what we want to do | 17:07 |
| sjmc7 | can you summarize for those of us without acces? | 17:07 |
| gokrokve_ | In the current situation in OPenStack the best way to proceed with any official sttaus is to join some existing program | 17:07 |
| gokrokve_ | Murano has some overlaps with other programs | 17:07 |
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| gokrokve_ | sjmc7: You should have an access | 17:07 |
| serg_melikyan | sjmc7: http://paste.openstack.org/show/97395/ | 17:08 |
| sjmc7 | thanks | 17:08 |
| gokrokve_ | sjmc7: At least I added your e-mail to list of editor | 17:08 |
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| gokrokve_ | So, we have identified three programs where we can put Murano by parts | 17:08 |
| gokrokve_ | Ctalog {glance} program for Murano API and Murano repo | 17:09 |
| gokrokve_ | Orchestration {heat} for Murano engine | 17:09 |
| gokrokve_ | Dashbard {horizon} for Murano UI | 17:09 |
| gokrokve_ | We spoke with PTLs of Glance and Heat. They overall accept this idea | 17:09 |
| ruhe | here is what i think about this: last week it was the only possible way to proceed. but after thursday TC meeting and latest discussions in ML, I think that we have a good chance to go with our own program | 17:10 |
| gokrokve_ | we still need to convince the whole teams of Glance and Heat to really approve this | 17:10 |
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| gokrokve_ | ruhe: Discussions are good but there is no any decision after that. We don't know what TC as a tC really thinks. Right now we heard different opinions of various TC members | 17:11 |
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| gokrokve_ | And that is the real problem. TC can't clearly articulate what they really want and what a the game rules. Right now we are in the game where rules changed without notice | 17:11 |
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| gokrokve_ | So the best conservative way is to show actual collaboration between teams rather then trying to blindly push for a new program | 17:12 |
| ruhe | gokrokve_: we need to weight both options. splitting across two programs will bring a few major issues. going with our own program - is more risk | 17:13 |
| gokrokve_ | At least that is what I think and Jay confirms | 17:13 |
| gokrokve_ | Sure. that is why I brought it here | 17:13 |
| ruhe | * going with our program is more risk in terms of our chances to be accepted | 17:13 |
| gokrokve_ | We need as a team understand what we want and what are the options | 17:13 |
| gokrokve_ | ruhe: I would sya there chances close to zero | 17:14 |
| sjmc7 | the fact taht we're split across two areas is part of the problem, i think | 17:14 |
| gokrokve_ | TC really coniders to reduce number of programs because governance problems | 17:14 |
| sjmc7 | if it was just extra glance functionality and UI, then it'd be an easier sell | 17:14 |
| gokrokve_ | sjmc7: Sure. That the root of th problem for any high level service. It has to do more then one thing. | 17:15 |
| gokrokve_ | We can add API and Artifacts to Glance - thats for sure. | 17:15 |
| sjmc7 | yes. so does openstack even WANT high level services in openstack? | 17:15 |
| gokrokve_ | But we have engine which does not belong to Glance at all | 17:15 |
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| ruhe | sjmc7: i've read all the conversations on this topic. and i don't know. i don't think there is a general agreement | 17:16 |
| gokrokve_ | sjmc7: TC is biased about that. They see that this really adds value but they struggle to understand how it fits to current OpenSTack model simle service for one task. | 17:16 |
| sjmc7 | i think there IS general agreement, which is: Yes, but not in my project | 17:16 |
| sjmc7 | if openstackk is aimed at being a set of services to use, maybe it makes sense not to incubate higher level services | 17:17 |
| gokrokve_ | sjmc7: True, but we did a good job talking with other teams. Glance is quite accepting this idea of having Murano API under their program. | 17:17 |
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| gokrokve_ | sjmc7: There are debates what is incubation. We do not apply for incubation right now. What we are looking for is to join some program and put our code under their umbrella. | 17:18 |
| gokrokve_ | Its not an incubation. It just official statement that we want OpenStack governance | 17:18 |
| stanlagun | gokrokve_: I can hardly see how API for managing environments is drastically different from engine so that it can be in Glance while engine cannot | 17:18 |
| ruhe | gokrokve_: this brings another concern i have about this idea - API and engine are not usable on their own. they're supposed to work *together* | 17:18 |
| gokrokve_ | And the change will be done in OpenStack governance document | 17:19 |
| sjmc7 | yeah - to do this, the API would just need to be using heat (+mistral | 17:19 |
| sjmc7 | +whetever) on its own | 17:19 |
| gokrokve_ | ruhe: They can work together and still be in different programs | 17:19 |
| gokrokve_ | ike we use Heat and we can't live without it | 17:19 |
| sjmc7 | the api and engine is an implementation detail | 17:19 |
| gokrokve_ | sjmc7: +1 | 17:19 |
| sjmc7 | what you're saying is splitting te artifact repo stuff from the envioronment management stuff | 17:20 |
| sjmc7 | NOT splitting the api and engine | 17:20 |
| gokrokve_ | Murano engine is still valuable as it adds some additional paradigms to Heat Orchestration | 17:20 |
| gokrokve_ | It can help to solve problems where imperative part is crutial | 17:20 |
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| gokrokve_ | Lice DR deployments and cross clouds deployments with sofisticated error handling | 17:21 |
| stanlagun | gokrokve_: with a price of switching to MuranoPL. So this is not exactly a help for Heat users | 17:21 |
| sjmc7 | yeah. but those parts are the hardest to sell | 17:21 |
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| gokrokve_ | stanlagun: We can find out integration path together with Heat team | 17:22 |
| gokrokve_ | That is why we want to be a part of program | 17:22 |
| gokrokve_ | to be able to talk and make a decisions together as a team | 17:22 |
| ruhe | maybe we should brainstorm pros and cons right here. or take it offline to an etherpad document? | 17:23 |
| gokrokve_ | Sure. Lets do this. | 17:23 |
| stanlagun | I'd like to see Zane using MuranoPL :) | 17:23 |
| gokrokve_ | I just want to make sure that everybody knows what is going on. | 17:23 |
| sjmc7 | offline would be good. i hope to get more guidance from our needs later today or tomrrow | 17:23 |
| ruhe | gokrokve_: yeah. thanks for driving this. we get a lot of pressure on incubation dates | 17:24 |
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| ruhe | i'd also like like to take it offline | 17:24 |
| gokrokve_ | sjmc7: Cool. And please involve other HP guys like Monty to understand how it could be done and what are their perspective on this | 17:24 |
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| gokrokve_ | Again, there is no incubation | 17:24 |
| gokrokve_ | It is just announcement of joining the program. | 17:24 |
| sjmc7 | i have very little access to our TC | 17:24 |
| ruhe | gokrokve_: but that's a path we take to become incubated some day. right? | 17:25 |
| gokrokve_ | Like TripleO which is a part of program but never incubated as a project | 17:25 |
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| gokrokve_ | ruhe: Yes. It will be incubated | 17:25 |
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| gokrokve_ | So we need to understand | 17:25 |
| gokrokve_ | a) how we feel about splitting | 17:26 |
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| gokrokve_ | b) how to present this to TC and explain the way how we collaborate with other projects | 17:26 |
| gokrokve_ | c) explain this to whole community | 17:26 |
| katyafervent2 | it would be bithing to incubate if we splitted | 17:26 |
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| gokrokve_ | This is a first precedent when project joins program | 17:27 |
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| gokrokve_ | katyafervent2: That a good question and probably it belongs to tC | 17:27 |
| ruhe | honestly, i'd prefer to go with our own program to avoid the complexity of splitting the project and organisational issues being a part of 2 programs. but if there is NO WAY to have our own program, then that's the only option | 17:27 |
| gokrokve_ | I don't know and we need to seek a TC guidance here | 17:27 |
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| gokrokve_ | ruhe: It is an option which we need to explore | 17:27 |
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| gokrokve_ | ruhe: and discuss with TC | 17:27 |
| gokrokve_ | Ok | 17:28 |
| gokrokve_ | Lets move on to the next item | 17:28 |
| ruhe | gokrokve_: will you please create an etherpad and send it across the team to continue thinking about pros and cons offline? | 17:28 |
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| gokrokve_ | ruhe: yes | 17:28 |
| ruhe | gokrokve_: thanks | 17:28 |
| gokrokve_ | I want to make sure that we fully support image based applications | 17:28 |
| sjmc7 | what do you mean by that? because i thnk we're planning to deploy that way | 17:29 |
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| gokrokve_ | https://blueprints.launchpad.net/murano/+spec/docker-registry-in-murano | 17:29 |
| ruhe | #action gokrokve_ to create an etherpad for team to fill pros and cons of becoming a part of two programs vs having our own program | 17:29 |
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| gokrokve_ | sjmc7: We need to support all kinds of deployment including image based | 17:29 |
| sjmc7 | don't we already support that? | 17:30 |
| gokrokve_ | for both Glance images with apps and containers | 17:30 |
| ruhe | #topic support image based deployment | 17:30 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "support image based deployment (Meeting topic: murano)" | 17:30 | |
| gokrokve_ | sjmc7: We do support something | 17:30 |
| gokrokve_ | But, I want to be 100% sure that we did not anything critical | 17:30 |
| gokrokve_ | The first this I see is an ability to filter proper images in UI | 17:30 |
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| gokrokve_ | Right now I can't select Ubuntu only images | 17:31 |
| gokrokve_ | Or Oracle | 17:31 |
| gokrokve_ | Or my custom App image | 17:31 |
| sjmc7 | yeah, the image fliterig def needs work. but maybe not much more complicated than now, just more flexible | 17:31 |
| sjmc7 | you _can_ do that | 17:31 |
| sjmc7 | e.g. we just tag via the glance api rather than the UI | 17:31 |
| sjmc7 | there's a BP about this already | 17:31 |
| gokrokve_ | sjmc7: Sure. Just add some filtering to make sure that Murano App can find its own image probably without User interfierence | 17:31 |
| gokrokve_ | sjmc7: Cool. Is it scheduled for Juno | 17:32 |
| gokrokve_ | sjmc7: Do you need it to be implemented in Juno? | 17:32 |
| gokrokve_ | Everythin we do for Glance images will work for Docker too | 17:33 |
| sjmc7 | i have to pay attention to a meeting here now, sorry | 17:33 |
| gokrokve_ | So it is better to think about it now | 17:33 |
| gokrokve_ | Ok | 17:33 |
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| gokrokve_ | ruhe: can you please create a dicument summarizing waht we have for Images support in Murano | 17:34 |
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| gokrokve_ | And some image based app example will be good | 17:35 |
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| ruhe | gokrokve_: i'm not sure about the document. i'll need your input on what items you need to be described. image based examples are on our roadmap for juno | 17:36 |
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| gokrokve_ | ruhe: Cool. We can talk offline. Some etherpad with use cases and input from Steve | 17:37 |
| gokrokve_ | I want to make sure that HP has everything to start using Murano | 17:37 |
| gokrokve_ | Also, as we have some time | 17:37 |
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| gokrokve_ | I would like to announce what we have in PoC stage | 17:38 |
| gokrokve_ | 1) CloudFoundry ServiceBroker API PoC | 17:38 |
| ruhe | gokrokve_: oh. i believe sjmc7 has it under his control | 17:38 |
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| gokrokve_ | 2) Multiple Heat Stacks deployment PoC - when application can have multiple Heat Stacks rather then one | 17:39 |
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| gokrokve_ | 3) Multicloud deployments PoC - when Murano can use user credentials to authenticate rather then token only. It will help application to deploy DR topology on different datacenters or even clouds | 17:39 |
| serg_melikyan | gokrokve_: I thought that number two we support out of the box, or you are talking about just some example that can be shared? | 17:40 |
| ruhe | #topic open discussion | 17:40 |
| gokrokve_ | serg_melikyan: #2 is possible to support but not out of the box | 17:40 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: murano)" | 17:40 | |
| gokrokve_ | right now stack is created in environment by default | 17:40 |
| gokrokve_ | and it bound tightly to it | 17:41 |
| ruhe | gokrokve_: you run ahead of topics. please let me do my bureaucracy :) | 17:41 |
| gokrokve_ | So to do multiple stacks is hard | 17:41 |
| gokrokve_ | ruhe: sure | 17:41 |
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| ruhe | we're ok now | 17:41 |
| gokrokve_ | So I need volunteers to do these PoC | 17:41 |
| gokrokve_ | #1 is almost done to something demoable | 17:42 |
| gokrokve_ | #2 - some discussions with Stan and some initial implementations, but we need to rewrite instance class and the way we do networking | 17:42 |
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| gokrokve_ | #3 is not even designed, but really important and requested by customers | 17:42 |
| gokrokve_ | I hope we will not need to assign volunteers. | 17:43 |
| ruhe | gokrokve_: i believe we can discuss that internally. that's not an appropriate place | 17:43 |
| gokrokve_ | Probably guys from other companies what to do this | 17:44 |
| gokrokve_ | It is not Mirantis specific | 17:44 |
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| gokrokve_ | So lets keep this list of PoC somewhere and anybody can actually work on them | 17:45 |
| gokrokve_ | As our current policy is to approve BPs with some implementaiton details we can't really work without PoCs | 17:45 |
| ruhe | HP folks have a lot on their own at this moment. I'm not sure anyone of newcomers would be able to tackle such complex scenarios | 17:45 |
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| gokrokve_ | ruhe: True, but it does not mean that we need to keep this internal | 17:46 |
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| ruhe | gokrokve_: yeah. it's always good to have a list of future features and prioritise it taking multiple inputs into account | 17:46 |
| gokrokve_ | I want to make sure that averybody understands where we are going | 17:46 |
| ruhe | sure | 17:47 |
| ruhe | anything else to discuss today? | 17:47 |
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| gokrokve_ | Nope, not from my side | 17:47 |
| gokrokve_ | Let me go from the stage :-) | 17:47 |
| ruhe | ok | 17:48 |
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| ruhe | just an update from me - migration to oslo.db and other incubated oslo projects is going well. i don't want to leave murano with deprecated unsupport code from oslo-incubator while the rest of community is migrating to those new libs | 17:49 |
| ruhe | *unsupported | 17:49 |
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| katyafervent2 | i want to ask about blueprint | 17:50 |
| ruhe | sure | 17:50 |
| katyafervent2 | ruhe could you provide a link please) | 17:51 |
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| katyafervent2 | i cant copy | 17:52 |
| ruhe | katyafervent2: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/murano/+spec/dynamic-ui-specify-no-explicit-name-field this one? | 17:52 |
| katyafervent2 | yes | 17:52 |
| katyafervent2 | did we finish with discussion? | 17:52 |
| ruhe | katyafervent2: i don't think so | 17:52 |
| katyafervent2 | or should we continue to discuss | 17:52 |
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| katyafervent2 | so when should we continue? | 17:53 |
| ruhe | i don't see +1/+2 comments. from those who participated in the discussion | 17:53 |
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| ruhe | we had a debate about this, but didn't reach a consensus | 17:54 |
| katyafervent2 | everyone who is argeed on this blueprint please leave +2 comments | 17:54 |
| ruhe | katyafervent2: you have half of the team in the same office with you :) | 17:54 |
| ruhe | and the second half is always in IRC | 17:54 |
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| katyafervent2 | ok, so i need to get positive comments | 17:55 |
| ruhe | yes, that's our policy now. we need generall agreement on the blueprint before it gets an approval | 17:56 |
| ruhe | katyafervent2: ping me if you don't get responses. i'll help you to reach out the core team | 17:57 |
| ruhe | do we have anything else to discuss today? | 17:57 |
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| ruhe | ok. thanks everyone | 17:58 |
| ruhe | #endmeeting | 17:58 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 17:58 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Aug 19 17:58:29 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 17:58 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/murano/2014/murano.2014-08-19-17.01.html | 17:58 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/murano/2014/murano.2014-08-19-17.01.txt | 17:58 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/murano/2014/murano.2014-08-19-17.01.log.html | 17:58 |
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| adrian_otto | #startmeeting Solum Team Meeting | 21:59 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Aug 19 21:59:56 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is adrian_otto. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 21:59 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 21:59 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: Solum Team Meeting)" | 21:59 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'solum_team_meeting' | 22:00 |
| adrian_otto | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/Solum#Agenda_for_2014-08-19_1600_UTC Our Agenda | 22:00 |
| adrian_otto | #topic Roll Call | 22:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Roll Call (Meeting topic: Solum Team Meeting)" | 22:00 | |
| adrian_otto | Adrian Otto | 22:00 |
| asalkeld | o/ | 22:00 |
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| tomblank | tom blankenship | 22:00 |
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| datsun180b | Ed Cranford | 22:00 |
| james_li | james li | 22:00 |
| PaulCzar | o/ | 22:00 |
| devkulkarni | devdatta kulkarni | 22:00 |
| roshanagr | Roshan Agrawal | 22:00 |
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| adrian_otto | feel free to chime in at any time to be recorded in our attendance. | 22:01 |
| adrian_otto | #topic Announcements | 22:02 |
| gpilz | gil pilz | 22:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Announcements (Meeting topic: Solum Team Meeting)" | 22:02 | |
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| adrian_otto | First, I wanted to give you all a heads-up that a project around containers in OpenStack is forming | 22:02 |
| ravips | Ravi Sankar Penta | 22:02 |
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| adrian_otto | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2014-August/043113.html Announcement of OpenStack Containers Service | 22:03 |
| devkulkarni | is this specific to Docker or any type of container? | 22:03 |
| adrian_otto | it will be initially formed in Stackforge, and moved into the OpenStack Compute program once it takes form | 22:03 |
| adrian_otto | any containers | 22:03 |
| adrian_otto | including Docker | 22:03 |
| adrian_otto | so anyone interested is encouraged to participate. | 22:04 |
| adrian_otto | any other announcements from the team? | 22:04 |
| adrian_otto | ok, moving right along | 22:04 |
| adrian_otto | #topic Review Action Items | 22:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Review Action Items (Meeting topic: Solum Team Meeting)" | 22:04 | |
| adrian_otto | ACTION: adrian_otto to add discussion of Pipelines and Assembly to next meeting agenda (adrian_otto, 16:55:37) | 22:04 |
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| adrian_otto | status: complete. We will discuss that next | 22:04 |
| adrian_otto | that was the only action item | 22:05 |
| adrian_otto | #topic Pipelines and Assemblies | 22:05 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Pipelines and Assemblies (Meeting topic: Solum Team Meeting)" | 22:05 | |
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| adrian_otto | the purpose of this discussion is to drive clarity about what Pipelines will be for, and what an Assembly is for | 22:05 |
| adrian_otto | the first point of confusion the team raised in our last team meeting was the rumor that we should eliminate the Assembly | 22:06 |
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| adrian_otto | My response to that was that a Pipeline is useful for pre-deployment and an Assembly is useful for ALM post-deployment | 22:06 |
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| adrian_otto | are there alternate points of view to explore and discuss? | 22:07 |
| ravips | pipeline just tells the workflow from source to image but assembly holds running state of the deployed app | 22:07 |
| adrian_otto | ravips: correct | 22:07 |
| asalkeld | adrian_otto, i think they should be seperate | 22:07 |
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| adrian_otto | asalkeld: yes, we agree on taht | 22:07 |
| adrian_otto | we should not conflate the two | 22:07 |
| roshanagr | I have the same understanding as what Adrian and Ravi stated | 22:08 |
| asalkeld | but are you suggesting we create assemblies from the pipeline? | 22:08 |
| devkulkarni | not an alternate point of view, but we should discuss the relationship, if any, between the two | 22:08 |
| adrian_otto | the purpose of the Assembly is to have a logical representation for a collection of components for the running applicaiton so they can be individually managed | 22:08 |
| adrian_otto | the Assembly is that collection | 22:08 |
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| adrian_otto | whereas a Pipeline is something we use to express the process that we use to bring an application through its lifecycle | 22:09 |
| asalkeld | adrian_otto, it is going to be a bit weird mixing native and camp concepts | 22:09 |
| asalkeld | personally i'd rather we deal directlly with heat/murano | 22:09 |
| devkulkarni | you mean heat/mistral? | 22:10 |
| PaulCzar | asalkeld: so you’re suggesting that murano and heat would handle the ALM on behalf of solum ? | 22:10 |
| asalkeld | devkulkarni, create mistral pipelines that talk to heat or murano | 22:10 |
| asalkeld | PaulCzar, yeah | 22:10 |
| asalkeld | but people can make what ever pipelines they want | 22:10 |
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| asalkeld | so i don't mind really as long as we don't *require* an assembly | 22:11 |
| adrian_otto | you can decide to make a Pipeline that does not result in an Assembly. | 22:11 |
| adrian_otto | in which case you can do exactly what you mentioned, asalkeld | 22:11 |
| asalkeld | yip, this is the power of the pipeline | 22:12 |
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| asalkeld | you can bend it to your will | 22:12 |
| devkulkarni | asalkeld: creating a pipeline to define the CI steps is fine.. the main concern for me is that the final state when an 'app' is running is not a pipeline .. but an assembly | 22:12 |
| asalkeld | devkulkarni, it's not currently | 22:12 |
| PaulCzar | if pipeline creates a heat stack and a murano app … then the assembly would describe the heat stack and murano app that is attached to the ‘application’ no ? | 22:12 |
| asalkeld | it's a heat stack | 22:12 |
| devkulkarni | well it is.. | 22:12 |
| tomblank | asalkeld: are you equating a heat stack with an assembly (defined above)? | 22:12 |
| devkulkarni | the app url is in the pipeline | 22:13 |
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| asalkeld | tomblank, an assembly wraps a heat stack | 22:13 |
| gpilz | the assembly resource is just a way of surfacing things | 22:13 |
| asalkeld | devkulkarni, it's just in the output of one of the jobs | 22:13 |
| asalkeld | it's like saying jenkins is an assembly | 22:13 |
| asalkeld | because i use jenkins to start an assembly | 22:14 |
| gpilz | assembly is meant to represent something that is (more or less) continually running | 22:14 |
| asalkeld | devkulkarni, you see the difference? | 22:14 |
| gpilz | until you do something to it - like stop it | 22:15 |
| asalkeld | gpilz, sure - like a heat stack:-O | 22:15 |
| gpilz | sure | 22:15 |
| gpilz | what's underneath the API is irrelevant to the API | 22:15 |
| adrian_otto | a Heat stack is a grouping of cloud resources. An Assembly is a grouping of application management interfaces, which may be above and beyond the Cloud Resources that make up the Heat stack. | 22:15 |
| adrian_otto | if you don't have a use for an Assembly, then you don't need to create one in our Pipeline. | 22:16 |
| asalkeld | adrian_otto, totally | 22:16 |
| adrian_otto | s/our/your/ | 22:16 |
| asalkeld | sounds like we are all in agreement? | 22:16 |
| asalkeld | devkulkarni, | 22:16 |
| asalkeld | you happy? | 22:16 |
| devkulkarni | asalkeld: | 22:16 |
| devkulkarni | one question still.. | 22:17 |
| adrian_otto | but to suggest that we should not proceed with the project vision of ALM, and to yield that to Murano is a departure from what most contributors are expecting from Solum | 22:17 |
| roshanagr | can someone summarize what we agreed on | 22:17 |
| devkulkarni | in the situation that we do need an assembly, what would the last stage of a pipeline define in your view/ | 22:17 |
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| adrian_otto | devkulkarni: who are you asking? | 22:18 |
| devkulkarni | sorry | 22:18 |
| devkulkarni | that was for asalkeld | 22:18 |
| asalkeld | it would be a mistral plugin that talks to solum | 22:18 |
| asalkeld | and creates an assembly | 22:18 |
| asalkeld | (updates too) | 22:18 |
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| devkulkarni | and git triggers would go to assembly or a pipeline? | 22:19 |
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| adrian_otto | to a pipeline | 22:19 |
| asalkeld | pipeline | 22:19 |
| asalkeld | snap | 22:19 |
| devkulkarni | probably to the first stage of a pipeline | 22:19 |
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| devkulkarni | okay.. | 22:19 |
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| asalkeld | adrian_otto, I don't mind what the entity is that finally deploys and looks after it (alm) as long as it is configurable | 22:19 |
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| devkulkarni | roshanagr: yeah, we should summarize this.. adrian_otto you want to take a stab at it?? | 22:19 |
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| adrian_otto | I would summarize with a set of definitions and a disposition | 22:20 |
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| asalkeld | for instance tripelO *might* be interested in using solum for their ci/cd at somepoint and then they would want a tuskar final stage | 22:20 |
| adrian_otto | one moment and I will put up a straw man for your consideration | 22:20 |
| adrian_otto | starting an etherpad to fiddle with | 22:21 |
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| adrian_otto | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/solum-pipeline-and-assembly Pipeline and Assembly Relation Etherpad | 22:22 |
| asalkeld | assembly and pipeline are getting a pad together:) | 22:22 |
| devkulkarni | thanks adrian_otto .. question for all .. once adrian_otto has a etherpad, what about we work through it over the week and point out any concerns/questions and circle back on this point in the next meeting? | 22:22 |
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| datsun180b | sounds good | 22:24 |
| datsun180b | if it's etherpad don't forget to name yourself | 22:24 |
| adrian_otto | Okay, I'd consider that a pretty concise summary of the subject | 22:25 |
| datsun180b | seriously, i see six "unnamed" in the top-right user list | 22:25 |
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| PaulCzar | for the source-to-image portion of the workflow … does it make sense to continue working on both the plan+assembly stuff as well as the pipelines ? This is mostly a question about the readiness of Mistral, esp for anyone that wants to build out POC infrastructure based on solum and may not want to take on the burden of more than one very-very-pre-release projects | 22:27 |
| asalkeld | PaulCzar, in my very humble opinion we need to morf assemble to it's true intennt | 22:28 |
| adrian_otto | PaulCzar: that's a fair question. I have been struggling with that ever since Atlanta when we decided to pursue Mistral as a way to instrument a pluggable pipeline | 22:28 |
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| asalkeld | alm: not what it does now | 22:29 |
| asalkeld | which is a mix | 22:29 |
| asalkeld | the current state of it makes it difficult to move forward | 22:29 |
| devkulkarni | adrian_otto: and what are your current thoughts? | 22:29 |
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| adrian_otto | I think we should further refine Solum to separate the Pipeline and Assembly resources | 22:30 |
| adrian_otto | It might not require a lot of Mistral specific work to achieve that vision, although that's one approach… one that I'm currently worried about. | 22:31 |
| adrian_otto | we used Assembly to hang a few things that we did not have a better place for | 22:32 |
| asalkeld | adrian_otto, here is a plan: | 22:33 |
| asalkeld | we make a new camp assembly | 22:33 |
| asalkeld | fully camp compat | 22:33 |
| devkulkarni | so starting work on separating the two resources is a good suggestion.. while that is happening though where would stuff that hangs on Assembly go while pipelines are not yet there.. | 22:33 |
| asalkeld | and use this for the pipeline | 22:33 |
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| devkulkarni | asalkeld: could you please elaborate more.. | 22:34 |
| asalkeld | devkulkarni, at some point we have to kill our weird version of assembles | 22:34 |
| asalkeld | our assembly does tasks | 22:35 |
| asalkeld | it shouldn't | 22:35 |
| asalkeld | it should just deploy | 22:35 |
| asalkeld | so we could (with gpilz help) | 22:35 |
| adrian_otto | asalkeld: I don't see why that would not just be a sequence of iterative changes to tie code to where it best belongs | 22:35 |
| adrian_otto | we are in full agreement about where task execution belongs | 22:36 |
| asalkeld | make a new camp assemble | 22:36 |
| devkulkarni | okay.. we define a new pipeline-assembly and do tasks there, | 22:36 |
| PaulCzar | I was thinking along the lines of we keep `plan create’ and `assembly create` and extend them into being our CAMP API, assembly create should at some stage ( post juno? ) start utilizing pre-defined piplines rather than doing the work itself, the output of the pipeline in this case is an assembly ( heat + ALM ) | 22:36 |
| devkulkarni | is that the suggestion? | 22:36 |
| adrian_otto | PaulCzar: yes, I like that. | 22:36 |
| asalkeld | PaulCzar, that's the other way around | 22:36 |
| adrian_otto | same outcome | 22:37 |
| PaulCzar | asalkeld: so we have two interfaces to using solum ‘pipelines’ and ‘camp’, the latter is a wrapper around piplines | 22:37 |
| asalkeld | shrug, I don't mind that | 22:37 |
| ravips | +1 PaulCzar | 22:37 |
| asalkeld | as long as have access to pipelines | 22:38 |
| devkulkarni | yeah, I like that as well | 22:38 |
| gpilz | one question: my spec says I'm going to create CAMP-compliant "assembly resource" that lives below "../camp/v1_1/" in the URL tree | 22:38 |
| datsun180b | makes sense to me | 22:38 |
| gpilz | should I still plan on doing that? | 22:38 |
| adrian_otto | gpilz: yes. | 22:38 |
| gpilz | cool | 22:38 |
| PaulCzar | maybe when mistral approaches incubation stages is when we’d cut over to mistral doing the hard work and swap assembly back to being just a wrapper API | 22:39 |
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| devkulkarni | asalkeld: you said that was other way around.. what is your view?? | 22:39 |
| adrian_otto | ok, so I feel like we arrived at a point of clarity with this discussion. Do the other team members feel that way? | 22:39 |
| asalkeld | devkulkarni, personally i am more interested in what pipelines can do | 22:39 |
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| asalkeld | not so interested in assembly | 22:39 |
| adrian_otto | devkulkarni: the current tasks executed under assemblies today would be broken out into canned pipelines | 22:40 |
| asalkeld | PaulCzar, the problem with that approach is the code will "rot" if no one is using it | 22:40 |
| adrian_otto | so that assembly is not a workflow, and that Pipelines are. | 22:40 |
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| datsun180b | i think that warrants an #agreed | 22:41 |
| devkulkarni | adrian_otto: sure. I thought asalkeld meant something else | 22:41 |
| devkulkarni | but probably it was just that.. | 22:41 |
| asalkeld | devkulkarni, I did suggest some thing different | 22:41 |
| asalkeld | but i am ok with this suggesting | 22:41 |
| asalkeld | suggstion | 22:42 |
| asalkeld | ga | 22:42 |
| adrian_otto | I'm going to attempt to draft an #agreed in our etherpad | 22:42 |
| devkulkarni | asalkeld: cool.. | 22:42 |
| adrian_otto | let's check it there before proceeding here on that | 22:42 |
| devkulkarni | adrian_otto: sounds good | 22:42 |
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| asalkeld | go to go do the school run, later | 22:44 |
| PaulCzar | if we were to move the current non-mistral workflow to pipeline and make it a configuration item solum.pipeline.workflow = legacy|mistral …and make assembly move quickly to not doing any work itself | 22:44 |
| devkulkarni | later asalkeld | 22:44 |
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| PaulCzar | I say this, but haven’t really dug into the pipeline stuff to know if that would even make sense | 22:44 |
| adrian_otto | ok, what about the draft #agreed in the etherpad? | 22:45 |
| roshanagr | What would be an example of tasks that an assembly executes requiring invocation of a pipeline | 22:45 |
| devkulkarni | PaulCzar: that was how it was being done.. one of the pipeline's stages would call into assembly_handler | 22:45 |
| adrian_otto | roshanagr: creation of a Heat stack | 22:45 |
| adrian_otto | termination of a Heat stack | 22:46 |
| adrian_otto | update a heat stack | 22:46 |
| datsun180b | use of the word "customer" is surprising there | 22:46 |
| adrian_otto | datsun180b: adjusted | 22:46 |
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| roshanagr | adrian_otto: creation of a Heat stack happens prior to creation of an assembly. Updates makes sense. Thanks | 22:47 |
| devkulkarni | adrian_otto: question.. | 22:47 |
| PaulCzar | adrian_otto: unit tests, builds, func tests would all be actioned by pipelines as well .. right ? | 22:47 |
| adrian_otto | PaulCzar: yes | 22:47 |
| devkulkarni | what if we separate the two points — assembly vs. pipeline and camp resources | 22:47 |
| adrian_otto | devkulkarni: like that? | 22:47 |
| PaulCzar | roshanagr: I think creation of the heat stack happens /during/ the creation of an assembly | 22:48 |
| devkulkarni | adrian_otto: yes. also I was going suggest that we get an agreed only on the first one right now (since that was the main point for today's meeting) | 22:49 |
| adrian_otto | so Solum might end up with a v2.0 API that is the CAMP one, if Solum's users prefer it. | 22:49 |
| adrian_otto | devkulkarni: ok, any objections to the first #agreed in the etherpad? If not I'm happy to record that, and move through the remaining agenda items. | 22:49 |
| roshanagr | PaulCzar: correct | 22:49 |
| datsun180b | the second statement does seem to imply solum reserves the right to retract its camp implementation, as opposed to deprecating it | 22:50 |
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| adrian_otto | #vote #agreed Solum should implement tasks using Pipelines. The Assembly shall trigger Pipelines when it requires a task execution. | 22:50 |
| datsun180b | oh and you've already rephrased | 22:50 |
| devkulkarni | datsun180b: we are not targetting agreed for second one right now | 22:50 |
| datsun180b | comprends | 22:50 |
| PaulCzar | LGTM | 22:50 |
| adrian_otto | devkulkarni: correct | 22:50 |
| devkulkarni | adrian_otto: LGTM | 22:50 |
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| adrian_otto | ok, last chance to oppose | 22:51 |
| datsun180b | no quarrel, looks good | 22:51 |
| gpilz | +1 | 22:51 |
| adrian_otto | #agreed Solum shall implement tasks using Pipelines. The Assembly shall trigger Pipelines when it requires a task execution. | 22:51 |
| adrian_otto | I substituted a should for a shall, hope that was ok. | 22:51 |
| adrian_otto | #topic Blueprint/Task Review | 22:52 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Blueprint/Task Review (Meeting topic: Solum Team Meeting)" | 22:52 | |
| devkulkarni | Lets try to get ravips's patch merged.. | 22:52 |
| adrian_otto | any team members what to surface specific work items for discussion? | 22:52 |
| adrian_otto | devkulkarni: please #link it for reference. | 22:52 |
| ravips | last week blocker got merged, current blocker https://review.openstack.org/#/c/115122/ needs review/merge | 22:53 |
| devkulkarni | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/105605/ https://review.openstack.org/#/c/115122/ | 22:53 |
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| adrian_otto | ok, only one link per #link line please | 22:53 |
| devkulkarni | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/105605/ | 22:53 |
| adrian_otto | do #link url desc (optional description goes after the url) | 22:54 |
| devkulkarni | ok. #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/105605/ (the patch) | 22:54 |
| adrian_otto | ok, I have a backlog of reviews to process, but I will be sure to get to that | 22:54 |
| devkulkarni | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/115122/ (dependency) | 22:54 |
| adrian_otto | thanks devkulkarni | 22:54 |
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| adrian_otto | any others ? | 22:55 |
| devkulkarni | there were bunch of patch for oslo config, db changes, etc. | 22:55 |
| devkulkarni | these are hard to review. | 22:55 |
| adrian_otto | #topic Open Discussion | 22:55 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: Solum Team Meeting)" | 22:55 | |
| devkulkarni | someone want to give a short summary/description about them | 22:55 |
| devkulkarni | s/patch/patches/ | 22:55 |
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| devkulkarni | in open discussion, what are our current thoughts on mid-cycle meetup? | 22:56 |
| ravips | need review for https://review.openstack.org/#/c/114704/ | 22:56 |
| datsun180b | oh yeah that one | 22:57 |
| roshanagr | devkulkarni: I think we discussed and decided against a mid cycle meetup this time | 22:57 |
| adrian_otto | devkulkarni: unless I hear suggestions to the contrary, we are planning to punt | 22:57 |
| adrian_otto | as we felt sufficiently aligned and engaged. | 22:57 |
| devkulkarni | ok | 22:57 |
| devkulkarni | another point was, merging specs | 22:58 |
| gpilz | need review on https://review.openstack.org/#/c/112153/ | 22:58 |
| devkulkarni | we are getting into situations where code is getting merged and the specs are not | 22:58 |
| devkulkarni | noorul had raised this concern sometime back | 22:58 |
| devkulkarni | as well | 22:58 |
| adrian_otto | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/112153/ Approved Spec for CAMP API | 22:58 |
| james_li | ravips: can you split Closes-Bug: #1357539, #1348759 in your commit msg as the 2nd one has no link | 22:58 |
| adrian_otto | gpilz: that is in the merge process now. | 22:59 |
| devkulkarni | gpilz: that will require understanding of the CAMP spec | 22:59 |
| gpilz | adrian: excellent | 22:59 |
| devkulkarni | does the references point to the current spec? | 22:59 |
| datsun180b | seems the easiest way to enforce that the spec comes first is to -1 the Workflow of the code | 22:59 |
| adrian_otto | ok, thanks for attending everyone | 22:59 |
| ravips | james_li: both bugs are related and one needs another | 22:59 |
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| adrian_otto | next meeting is 2014-08-26 at 1600 UTC | 23:00 |
| adrian_otto | #endmeeting | 23:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 23:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Aug 19 23:00:07 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 23:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/solum_team_meeting/2014/solum_team_meeting.2014-08-19-21.59.html | 23:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/solum_team_meeting/2014/solum_team_meeting.2014-08-19-21.59.txt | 23:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/solum_team_meeting/2014/solum_team_meeting.2014-08-19-21.59.log.html | 23:00 |
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