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| hongbin | #startmeeting zun | 03:00 |
|---|---|---|
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Dec 6 03:00:09 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is hongbin. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 03:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 03:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: zun)" | 03:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'zun' | 03:00 |
| hongbin | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Zun#Agenda_for_2016-12-06_0300_UTC Today's agenda | 03:00 |
| hongbin | #topic Roll Call | 03:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Roll Call (Meeting topic: zun)" | 03:00 | |
| Namrata | Namrata | 03:00 |
| pksingh | pradeep | 03:00 |
| kevinz | kevinz | 03:00 |
| mkrai_ | Madhuri Kumari | 03:00 |
| Wenzhi | Wenzhi | 03:00 |
| shubhams_ | shubham | 03:00 |
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| hongbin | thanks for joining the meeting Namrata pksingh kevinz mkrai_ Wenzhi shubhams_ | 03:01 |
| sudipto_ | o/ | 03:01 |
| * hongbin is getting code today | 03:01 | |
| hongbin | s/code/cold/ | 03:01 |
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| Wenzhi | take care | 03:01 |
| hongbin | sudipto: hey | 03:01 |
| sudipto_ | hi | 03:02 |
| kevinz | take care hongbin | 03:02 |
| hongbin | Wenzhi: thanks, not too bad | 03:02 |
| hongbin | #topic Announcements | 03:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Announcements (Meeting topic: zun)" | 03:02 | |
| hongbin | 1. Zun is an official OpenStack project now! | 03:02 |
| hongbin | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/402227/ | 03:02 |
| pksingh | great :) | 03:02 |
| mkrai_ | Yay!!! Congrats to all of us. | 03:02 |
| hongbin | thanks everyone for your hard work, this is a recognization of the whole team | 03:02 |
| kevinz | \o/ | 03:02 |
| shubhams_ | :) | 03:02 |
| Wenzhi | bravo | 03:02 |
| Namrata | great | 03:02 |
| lakerzhou | Great!! | 03:02 |
| sudipto_ | awesome! | 03:03 |
| hongbin | yeah | 03:03 |
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| hongbin | #topic Review Action Items | 03:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Review Action Items (Meeting topic: zun)" | 03:03 | |
| hongbin | none | 03:03 |
| hongbin | #topic Should we participant OpenStack Project Team Gathering? | 03:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Should we participant OpenStack Project Team Gathering? (Meeting topic: zun)" | 03:03 | |
| hongbin | #link https://www.openstack.org/ptg/ | 03:03 |
| yanyanhu | hi, hongbin, sorry I'm late | 03:03 |
| mkrai_ | Yes we should | 03:03 |
| hongbin | yanyanhu: hey, np. thanks for joining | 03:03 |
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| lakerzhou | I plan to go PTG | 03:04 |
| hongbin | lakerzhou: ack | 03:04 |
| hongbin | anyone else who will go there? | 03:04 |
| * hongbin should be able to attend but not sure 100% | 03:04 | |
| Namrata | not so sure | 03:05 |
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| mkrai_ | I can't assure now. Waiting for approval from employers | 03:05 |
| pksingh | need to talk to my employer | 03:05 |
| hongbin | it looks lakerzhou will go there, mkrai_ Namrata and me is not sure | 03:05 |
| hongbin | pksingh: ack | 03:06 |
| hongbin | ok, i asked this because the tc chair asked me if zun will have a session in ptg | 03:06 |
| hongbin | from the current response, it looks only a few of us will go there | 03:06 |
| hongbin | ok, let's table this topic to next week | 03:07 |
| hongbin | #topic Kubernetes integration (shubhams) | 03:07 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Kubernetes integration (shubhams) (Meeting topic: zun)" | 03:07 | |
| hongbin | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/zun/+spec/k8s-integration The BP | 03:07 |
| hongbin | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/zun-k8s-integration The etherpad | 03:08 |
| hongbin | shubhams_: ^^ | 03:08 |
| shubhams_ | We discussed about this last week and mostly agreed to have a small set of k8s feature | 03:08 |
| shubhams_ | Thats is : start from pod like feature in zun | 03:08 |
| shubhams_ | It is mentioned as option#3 in etherpad | 03:09 |
| shubhams_ | On top of this, we propose option#5 | 03:09 |
| shubhams_ | Madhuri will explain this | 03:09 |
| hongbin | mkrai_: ^^ | 03:10 |
| mkrai_ | I have tried to explain it in etherpad. | 03:10 |
| mkrai_ | It is basically exposing single API endpoint for each COE | 03:10 |
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| mkrai_ | and then have sub controllers to it for handling the resources related to that COE | 03:11 |
| mkrai_ | By this zun will not have many resources that we directly replicate from COEs | 03:11 |
| mkrai_ | For an example: /v1/k8s/pod etc | 03:11 |
| hongbin | then, zun will behavior as a proxy to different coe? | 03:12 |
| mkrai_ | Yes | 03:12 |
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| hongbin | this is basically an extension of option #1 (it seems) | 03:12 |
| mkrai_ | The implementation at compute side will be same. It will act like proxy | 03:12 |
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| hongbin | mkrai_: get that | 03:13 |
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| hongbin | all, thoughts on this? | 03:13 |
| Wenzhi | sounds feasible | 03:13 |
| shubhams_ | I and Madhuri had already discussed this , so we are ok on this point | 03:14 |
| pksingh | idea seems great, at least it do not disturbs the existing k8s user | 03:14 |
| sudipto_ | mkrai_, the segregation seems like a good proposal. What would happen to the default zun behaviour in this case? | 03:14 |
| sudipto_ | i mean a command like "zun list" | 03:14 |
| pksingh | how about having different api service for different coes? | 03:14 |
| mkrai_ | sudipto_: zun k8s pod-create | 03:15 |
| hongbin | pksingh: interesting | 03:15 |
| sudipto_ | mkrai_, that's for k8s, that i got. | 03:15 |
| mkrai_ | the COE will be the parent command and we can have sub commands related to the specific resource | 03:15 |
| sudipto_ | so everything is a COE in zun? | 03:15 |
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| mkrai_ | sudipto_: Yes | 03:16 |
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| mkrai_ | pksingh: I am not sure, will it not add additional complexity | 03:16 |
| mkrai_ | Running multiple api services? | 03:17 |
| sudipto_ | so there's no longer a command like zun list - it become zun default list or something? | 03:17 |
| pksingh | mkrai_: user can run the service if they use k8 | 03:17 |
| sudipto_ | then zun k8s list and so on... | 03:17 |
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| pksingh | mkrai_: otherwise they dont need to run it | 03:17 |
| mkrai_ | sudipto_: Sorry I missed the docker part. It should remain as it is | 03:17 |
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| mkrai_ | pksingh: And what about compute service? | 03:18 |
| sudipto_ | ok that sounds fine. Because if you have created a POD from K8s and then do you a docker ps today, it would show us the individual containers. So maybe zun list becomes directly mapped to docker ps | 03:19 |
| pksingh | mkrai_: that can be same i think, | 03:19 |
| hongbin | i think zun needs to have a core api that is independent of any coe, although we could have extension api that is compatible with different coes | 03:19 |
| hongbin | 2 cents | 03:19 |
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| mkrai_ | sudipto_: Right | 03:20 |
| mkrai_ | pksingh: In that case we will have to have a proxy api service. Right? | 03:21 |
| pksingh | hongbin: every coe have different terms, will it not add overhead for existing coe users to learn the new things? | 03:21 |
| hongbin | pksingh: yes, that is true, but i would argue that zun's users won't be users of coe | 03:22 |
| hongbin | pksingh: because coe users will use the native coe api | 03:22 |
| sudipto_ | hongbin, +! | 03:22 |
| hongbin | pksingh: zun's users are really the users of openstack imo | 03:22 |
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| shubhams_ | hongbin: +1 additionally with zun we try to give uniformatiy across coes | 03:22 |
| pksingh | hongbin: yes, i agree with you | 03:23 |
| hongbin | the openstakc users who are using "nova list", those are the potential zun users | 03:23 |
| Wenzhi | agreed | 03:23 |
| kevinz | agreed | 03:23 |
| hongbin | if we agree on this point, then we need to have a core api that is independent of any coe, and frieldly to openstack users | 03:23 |
| shubhams_ | hongbin: but having our own implementation (core api as you mentioned) involves huge efforts, I think so | 03:23 |
| sudipto_ | what is this core api? another COE from openstack? | 03:24 |
| hongbin | shubhams_: yes, might be | 03:24 |
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| hongbin | sudipto_: right now, the core api is /containers | 03:24 |
| sudipto_ | hongbin, eventually - a group of containers i presume? | 03:24 |
| mkrai_ | sudipto_: Right | 03:25 |
| hongbin | sudipto_: yes | 03:25 |
| hongbin | so, personally, i prefer option #3, adding pod to the core api | 03:25 |
| sudipto_ | FWIW, that's the path to choose because eventually a K8s user maybe more than OK with K8s itself. | 03:25 |
| hongbin | however, option #5 could be an optional feature | 03:25 |
| hongbin | sudipto_: true | 03:26 |
| sudipto_ | but shubhams_ is right that it's a huge effort anyway... | 03:26 |
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| hongbin | another option is to keep /container only | 03:27 |
| hongbin | no pod | 03:27 |
| hongbin | then, the grouping of containers need to achieved by compose like feature | 03:27 |
| sudipto_ | Can an orchestration service like heat do the composition? | 03:27 |
| mkrai_ | hongbin: this is the core API implementation only. Right? | 03:28 |
| hongbin | sudipto_: yes, i think it can | 03:28 |
| hongbin | mkrai_: yes | 03:28 |
| mkrai_ | hongbin: What I think now is. We should first integrate k8s with zun(option #3 or option #5) as we have seen huge interest for k8s | 03:29 |
| mkrai_ | And then later concentrate/discuss on the core API feature | 03:29 |
| mkrai_ | These are two different things IMO | 03:29 |
| mkrai_ | Or split the discussion in two topics, k8s and core COE APIs | 03:30 |
| hongbin | ok, then it seems we need to choose between #3 and #5 | 03:30 |
| mkrai_ | Yes | 03:30 |
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| pksingh | hongbin: mkrai_ , sorry i ask this, what benifit users will get if they access k8 via zun? | 03:30 |
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| sudipto_ | pksingh, stole my words | 03:31 |
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| hongbin | pksingh: i think they interest to leverage the advanced k8s feature, e.g. replication controller | 03:31 |
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| mkrai_ | I don't have answer for it now. But may be in future we provide some openstack features like storage and networking to them | 03:31 |
| hongbin | maybe in general, the self-healing feature | 03:32 |
| mkrai_ | Now we are just behaving as proxy | 03:32 |
| pksingh | hongbin: cant we implement it in zun instead of providing it through k8s? | 03:32 |
| shubhams_ | pksingh: sudipto_ : I am not sure but may be the user who wants to have container cluster but dont want to explore other options except openstack would use zun and its APIs | 03:32 |
| hongbin | pksingh: yes, we could | 03:32 |
| mkrai_ | pksingh: We can and that is different from this k8s integration feature | 03:33 |
| sudipto_ | i think when we are talking about k8s being managed by zun - we are talking about 3 abstractions, one by docker, one by kubernetes and one by zun | 03:33 |
| mkrai_ | hongbin: I suggest to create a bp/etherpad for it and start discussing about core COE APIs in zun | 03:33 |
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| hongbin | mkrai_: ok, we could do that | 03:33 |
| hongbin | #action hongbin create a etherpad to discuss the zun core api | 03:34 |
| mkrai_ | hongbin: thanks | 03:34 |
| sudipto_ | I am not sure if will go to zun to get my kubernetes cluster managed, if i come to openstack, maybe i will just use magnum | 03:34 |
| hongbin | pksingh: to answer your question about why users want to use k8s via zun | 03:34 |
| pksingh | hongbin: i was thinking why user will use k8s api through zun, it will add extra overhead | 03:34 |
| hongbin | pksingh: another important reason is multi-tenancy, neutron, cinder, etc. | 03:34 |
| pksingh | hongbin: ok | 03:35 |
| hongbin | the key point the users are looking for openstack integration for container technology | 03:35 |
| mkrai_ | sudipto_: magnum don't have the k8s APIs. | 03:35 |
| shubhams_ | How about splitting this bp itself : 1. integrate k8s 2. Core API implementation and work parallely in 2 teams? | 03:36 |
| pksingh | sudipto_: i agree with u | 03:36 |
| sudipto_ | my point is - i wouldn't want a magnum or zun api for kubernetes, i will use the kubernetes api itself. | 03:36 |
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| pksingh | sudipto_: +1, same here | 03:36 |
| sudipto_ | I don't necessarily buy into cinder and neutron points either. | 03:36 |
| mkrai_ | sudipto_: Though they can use the native kubectl but openstack user might want the native openstack clis for the same | 03:37 |
| hongbin | sudipto_: then, do you think if k8s integration is the right direction for zun? | 03:37 |
| sudipto_ | i am not sure at this point, maybe we need some operator opinion here. | 03:37 |
| hongbin | sudipto_: i see | 03:38 |
| shubhams_ | sudipto_: Think about the case for image driver here . We could have used docker pull directly but adding glance driver gave an option to store images inside openstack. Similarly having k8s integrate with zun will give such benefits . just a thought | 03:38 |
| hongbin | sudipto_: actually, back to the beginning when hte zun project is found | 03:39 |
| pksingh | hongbin: :) | 03:39 |
| sudipto_ | glance images are pretty inferior in terms of storing docker images if you just think about it. | 03:39 |
| sudipto_ | but we need it. | 03:39 |
| hongbin | sudipto_: the zun project is found becaue other openstack projects (i.e. trove) need a api to talk to different coe | 03:39 |
| sudipto_ | yeah which means, you maybe talking about removing the headache from the user that it's kubernetes or swarm or mesos underneath | 03:40 |
| hongbin | sudipto_: from their point fo view, it is hard for them to interface with different coe, so they want a single api | 03:40 |
| sudipto_ | but with the endpoint API - we we are saying - start becoming aware of kubernetes commands - isn't it? | 03:40 |
| hongbin | maybe no | 03:41 |
| hongbin | users should not be aware of k8s under the hook | 03:41 |
| hongbin | like nova | 03:41 |
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| sudipto_ | hongbin, yup | 03:42 |
| sudipto_ | that's what i am saying too. | 03:42 |
| hongbin | like nova's users are not aware of hypervisor | 03:42 |
| pksingh | hongbin: i agree | 03:42 |
| sudipto_ | but a command like zun k8s list --> it becomes k8s aware. | 03:42 |
| hongbin | sudipto_: it is a good or bad idea? | 03:42 |
| sudipto_ | hongbin, i mean, that is opposite of our initial discussion. | 03:43 |
| hongbin | ok | 03:43 |
| sudipto_ | however, during the initial discussion, we couldn't find a way to bring all the COEs under one API (atleast back then) | 03:43 |
| mkrai_ | sudipto_: And that's the same today I guess | 03:43 |
| sudipto_ | To me an ML discussion sounds right? | 03:43 |
| hongbin | ok | 03:43 |
| mkrai_ | Every COE has different implementation | 03:44 |
| hongbin | #action hongbin start a ML to discuss the k8s integration bp | 03:44 |
| hongbin | then, let's advance topic | 03:44 |
| hongbin | #topic Support interactive mode (kevinz) | 03:44 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Support interactive mode (kevinz) (Meeting topic: zun)" | 03:44 | |
| hongbin | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/zun/+spec/support-interactive-mode The BP | 03:44 |
| hongbin | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/396841/ The design spec | 03:44 |
| hongbin | kevinz: ^^ | 03:44 |
| kevinz | Hi | 03:44 |
| kevinz | This week plan to finish the "attach" workflow and zun-api <-> docker-daemon workflow | 03:45 |
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| kevinz | last week tweak the design spec and finish the pre-investigation for feasible method | 03:47 |
| hongbin | yes, the spec looks good | 03:47 |
| hongbin | (to me) | 03:47 |
| kevinz | haha | 03:47 |
| pksingh | kevinz: i will take a look today, | 03:48 |
| Wenzhi | LGTM as well | 03:48 |
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| kevinz | Wenzhi: THX | 03:48 |
| hongbin | kevinz: i think you can start the prototype (maybe after the spec is merged ) to see if the implementation is feasible | 03:49 |
| kevinz | pksingh: OK thanks | 03:50 |
| hongbin | kevinz: feel free to upload a wip patch to ping us for early reviews | 03:50 |
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| kevinz | hongbin: Yeah I will do this week for prototype | 03:50 |
| hongbin | kevinz: thanks for your work on this feature, it would be a useful feature | 03:50 |
| hongbin | kevinz: ack | 03:51 |
| hongbin | ok, move on to next topic | 03:51 |
| kevinz | hongbin: my pleasure, thanks for your help | 03:51 |
| hongbin | #topic Moving inspect image from containers driver to image driver | 03:51 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Moving inspect image from containers driver to image driver (Meeting topic: zun)" | 03:51 | |
| hongbin | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/404546/ | 03:51 |
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| hongbin | for this review, it looks we have different opinion about the location of the inspect image method | 03:52 |
| hongbin | Namrata: you want to drive this one? | 03:52 |
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| Namrata | yeah sure | 03:52 |
| pksingh | in my openion, if we can have similar implementation for glance driver, then its fine | 03:53 |
| Namrata | Imo inspect_image is sepicfic to image | 03:53 |
| mkrai_ | pksingh: +1 | 03:53 |
| Namrata | so it should be under image driver | 03:53 |
| Wenzhi | sounds reasonable | 03:54 |
| shubhams_ | pksingh: mkrai_ : yeah currently even glance driver calls inspect_image from docker driver | 03:54 |
| sudipto_ | the present patchset looks good to me. | 03:55 |
| mkrai_ | me too | 03:55 |
| shubhams_ | plus in that case, if we have inspect_image for glance driver then probably we need not run image_load before running inspect_image as it will be handled by driver itself. But for docker only current patch sounds good | 03:56 |
| pksingh | i think it will fail if image driver is glance, am i right? | 03:56 |
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| Namrata | Yes | 03:56 |
| Namrata | will implememt for glance also | 03:56 |
| pksingh | Namrata: can we add both implementations and then merge? | 03:57 |
| hongbin | Namrata: maybe you could combine the implementation of glance and docker hub into one patch | 03:57 |
| hongbin | Namrata: then the reviewers can see the big picture clearly | 03:57 |
| hongbin | pksingh: same advice :) | 03:58 |
| pksingh | hongbin: :) | 03:58 |
| Namrata | okay | 03:58 |
| Namrata | will do that | 03:58 |
| hongbin | Namrata: thx | 03:58 |
| hongbin | #topic Open Discussion | 03:58 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: zun)" | 03:58 | |
| pksingh | Namrata: thnx | 03:59 |
| Namrata | thanks | 03:59 |
| hongbin | last minute | 03:59 |
| hongbin | ok, all thanks for joining the meeting | 03:59 |
| hongbin | #endmeeting | 03:59 |
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| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 03:59 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Dec 6 03:59:42 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 03:59 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/zun/2016/zun.2016-12-06-03.00.html | 03:59 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/zun/2016/zun.2016-12-06-03.00.txt | 03:59 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/zun/2016/zun.2016-12-06-03.00.log.html | 03:59 |
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| eranrom | #startmeeting storlets | 08:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Dec 6 08:00:37 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is eranrom. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 08:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 08:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: storlets)" | 08:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'storlets' | 08:00 |
| eranrom | Hi | 08:00 |
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| akihito | Hi | 08:01 |
| eranrom | akihito: Hi | 08:01 |
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| kota_ | hello | 08:02 |
| eranrom | kota_: Hi | 08:02 |
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| akihito | hi | 08:02 |
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| eranrom | Do you know if Takashi plans on joining? | 08:02 |
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| kota_ | he was willing to join here | 08:03 |
| kota_ | he said when I asked 2 hours ago | 08:03 |
| kota_ | eranrom:^^ | 08:04 |
| akihito | He is absent... | 08:04 |
| eranrom | ok, We need him for the PTG topic | 08:04 |
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| kota_ | and just get his response, it looks like he got another troublesome | 08:04 |
| eranrom | I see. Hope he is ok. | 08:05 |
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| eranrom | So lets start with the other topic: | 08:05 |
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| kota_ | so please go ahead today's topics | 08:05 |
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| kota_ | the other topic? | 08:06 |
| eranrom | #topic Big-Tent | 08:06 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Big-Tent (Meeting topic: storlets)" | 08:06 | |
| kota_ | k | 08:06 |
| eranrom | Any comments on the steps I have suggested (https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/Storlets#Agenda:) | 08:06 |
| eranrom | list is on item 3 | 08:06 |
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| kota_ | looking | 08:07 |
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| kota_ | yeah, looks great for the agenda | 08:07 |
| kota_ | and now on item3 ok | 08:08 |
| -kota_- Merge Keystone V3 patch | 08:08 | |
| -kota_- Fix source headers | 08:08 | |
| -kota_- Move out container code to host | 08:08 | |
| -kota_- Port Ansible to devstack | 08:08 | |
| kota_ | eranrom: do you think of we need to merge all of them? | 08:08 |
| kota_ | eranrom: or hope landing part of them and propose to get offical in parallel? | 08:09 |
| eranrom | I guess the latter two are not really required | 08:09 |
| eranrom | I can get back to Flavio after we merge the first two | 08:10 |
| eranrom | and continue from there. | 08:10 |
| kota_ | sounds good idea, we would include them as in our load map but not commitments | 08:11 |
| kota_ | k | 08:11 |
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| eranrom | ok. | 08:11 |
| eranrom | #agreed | 08:11 |
| kota_ | on the v3 patch, probably I have to do that in my homework. | 08:11 |
| kota_ | because it looks like takashi has added +2 already, right? | 08:11 |
| eranrom | kota_: sure | 08:11 |
| eranrom | yep | 08:12 |
| kota_ | let me check the patch link.. | 08:12 |
| kota_ | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/394168/ | 08:12 |
| kota_ | this one? | 08:12 |
| eranrom | yes | 08:12 |
| * eranrom will take care of headers while kota_ does homework :-) | 08:13 | |
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| kota_ | er, recently, devstack gate has been changed keystone v3 default, we need that due to using devstack, make sense. | 08:13 |
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| kota_ | eranrom: thanks for taking care of headers! | 08:13 |
| eranrom | kota_: sure. yes we probably need that. Takashi wants it for quite a while now. | 08:14 |
| kota_ | eranrom: quick question | 08:14 |
| kota_ | eranrom: why do we need to update keystone v3 in *ansible scripts*? | 08:14 |
| kota_ | eranrom: is it not used for building testing environment anymore? | 08:15 |
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| kota_ | I'm just looking at file list modified | 08:16 |
| eranrom | The ansible scripts perform various Swift operations that require a token, and so they need to authenticate using v3 now... | 08:16 |
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| eranrom | Specifically, there is a role that enables an account for storlets. This requires creating several containers, and setting the storlet enabled attribute on the account | 08:17 |
| kota_ | er... | 08:17 |
| kota_ | k, getting, getting | 08:17 |
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| eranrom | :-) | 08:18 |
| kota_ | so the devstack is used just as instration for the gate now and we still need to setup something (e.g. account) via ansible | 08:18 |
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| kota_ | and then, current script uses v2-like so that we need to update them. | 08:18 |
| kota_ | right? | 08:19 |
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| kota_ | s/instaration/installation/ | 08:19 |
| eranrom | kota_: yes. The interesting point for me was to discover that although devstack installed Keystone with V3 API the current code was still working with V2 API | 08:19 |
| eranrom | For me it was a surprise. | 08:19 |
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| kota_ | eranrom: interesting | 08:20 |
| eranrom | keystone is full of surprises :-) | 08:20 |
| kota_ | eranrom: and thanks, that info is *SUPER* helpful for my homework :P | 08:20 |
| eranrom | kota_: sure | 08:20 |
| eranrom | This is all I had, so moving to open discussion | 08:21 |
| eranrom | #topic Open Discussion | 08:21 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: storlets)" | 08:21 | |
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| eranrom | Anything else? | 08:21 |
| kota_ | eranrom: not a big progress right now | 08:22 |
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| eranrom | kota_: Saw you posted a long running test patch. I guess you are looking at a long running storlet at the proxy. | 08:23 |
| kota_ | not specifically only on the proxy but for now I'm making sure which param should work well on the timeout cases | 08:23 |
| kota_ | to describe my co-worker who dosn't know the swift/storlets config in detail :/ | 08:24 |
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| kota_ | since that, he was starting to increase all timeout value up to enough to run the heavy task | 08:24 |
| kota_ | but i don't want to do that because w/o knowledge increasing timeout may cause side-effect! | 08:25 |
| kota_ | so that, now I'm making sure if storlet_timeout can work as I expected and we could use also node timeout for swift conf in default value. | 08:26 |
| kota_ | even if it's heavy task. | 08:26 |
| eranrom | kota_: right. Note that when running on an object node you may get different timeouts then when running on the proxy. | 08:26 |
| kota_ | it's a | 08:26 |
| kota_ | eranrom: exactly | 08:26 |
| eranrom | kota_: different code path... | 08:27 |
| kota_ | painful :/ | 08:27 |
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| eranrom | kota_: indeed. Doron and I have investigated this a lot in the past. | 08:27 |
| kota_ | eranrom: in older days? | 08:28 |
| eranrom | kota_: yes, abut a year ago | 08:28 |
| eranrom | We have mapped the problem, but we did not come up with a solution. | 08:28 |
| kota_ | eranrom: i think, with recent work, the refactoring we have done would make a good shape to abstract the path for timeout | 08:28 |
| kota_ | oh, maybe? | 08:28 |
| kota_ | that problem still be there? | 08:29 |
| eranrom | kota_: well, if you do not want to play with node timeout then yes, it is still there. | 08:29 |
| eranrom | and may involve swift wsgi and/or eventlet code | 08:29 |
| kota_ | eranrom: if you could comment to point out the problem in my patch, it could help me to understand. | 08:29 |
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| eranrom | kota_: Will do, I will recollect our findings first :-) | 08:30 |
| kota_ | eranrom: thanks! | 08:30 |
| eranrom | kota_: my pleasure! | 08:30 |
| kota_ | that's all from me today. | 08:31 |
| eranrom | kota_: thanks | 08:32 |
| eranrom | If there is nothing else we will get back 30 mins :-) | 08:32 |
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| kota_ | :-) | 08:32 |
| kota_ | that's good because I can use the 30 mins for the review of keystone v3 patch | 08:33 |
| eranrom | :-) | 08:33 |
| eranrom | ok so in that case: | 08:33 |
| eranrom | Thank you all for joining. | 08:33 |
| eranrom | See you on #openstack-storlets | 08:33 |
| eranrom | #endmeeting | 08:33 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 08:33 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Dec 6 08:33:53 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 08:33 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/storlets/2016/storlets.2016-12-06-08.00.html | 08:33 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/storlets/2016/storlets.2016-12-06-08.00.txt | 08:33 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/storlets/2016/storlets.2016-12-06-08.00.log.html | 08:33 |
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| saggi | #startmeeting karbor | 09:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Dec 6 09:01:04 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is saggi. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 09:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 09:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: karbor)" | 09:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'karbor' | 09:01 |
| saggi | Hi everyone | 09:01 |
| edisonxiang | Hello | 09:01 |
| zhonghua2 | hi | 09:01 |
| leon_wang | hi | 09:01 |
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| chenying_ | hi | 09:01 |
| saggi | yuval is on reserve duty | 09:02 |
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| chenying_ | I submit a irc meeting topic rightnow. | 09:03 |
| saggi | #topic About the operation_logs API | 09:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "About the operation_logs API (Meeting topic: karbor)" | 09:03 | |
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| saggi | who suggested this? | 09:03 |
| chenying_ | yes I have a question about status in this API. | 09:04 |
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| chenying_ | ◦state in operation_logs have several values (running/finished/failed) | 09:05 |
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| chenying_ | ◦"finished" means protection restAPI is called successfully or the protection action have been done successfully | 09:05 |
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| saggi | finished means that everything was done successfully | 09:06 |
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| saggi | this includes all protect\restore\delete requests relating to the operation | 09:06 |
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| saggi | ok? | 09:08 |
| chenying_ | It means that when we start vloume backup, the status in operation_logs finished means the checkpoint is available | 09:08 |
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| saggi | yes | 09:09 |
| chenying_ | When protect\restore\delete action is successful, the status of operation_logs must be updated to finished. | 09:10 |
| chenying_ | OK I see | 09:10 |
| edisonxiang | saggi: do you think whether we can reuse the table "scheduled_operation_logs"? | 09:10 |
| edisonxiang | https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/operationlogs | 09:10 |
| saggi | reuse for what? | 09:10 |
| saggi | no | 09:11 |
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| saggi | since the operation might include multiple actions | 09:11 |
| edisonxiang | reuse "scheduled_operation_logs" table to show operation logs | 09:11 |
| saggi | and it's only finished when all the actions are over | 09:11 |
| edisonxiang | So operation logs are none busineess of scheduledoperation and scheduledoperationlogs? | 09:12 |
| saggi | edisonxiang: I don't understand the question | 09:13 |
| chenying_ | saggi Does it mean that the operation_logs is inserted into database table in operationengine service, and the status of it is updated in portection service? | 09:13 |
| edisonxiang | or creat new tables to finish this feature? | 09:14 |
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| saggi | The Operation Engine needs to track the progress of all the actions it starts. | 09:15 |
| saggi | It needs to mark the result for each run of an operation. | 09:15 |
| saggi | The run is successful only if all actions invoked were successful. | 09:15 |
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| edisonxiang | So can we reuse scheduledoperationlogs to record operationlogs? | 09:16 |
| saggi | I might be missing something. What is the difference between scheduledoperationlogs and operationlogs. | 09:17 |
| chenying_ | saggi xinyong's question is that, Do we use scheduledoperationlogs database table to record thess data, or create a new database table for this api? | 09:17 |
| edisonxiang | saggi: I am confused with the difference between scheduledoperationlogs and operationlogs. | 09:18 |
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| edisonxiang | saggi: but now scheduedoperationlogs only record the protect workflow | 09:19 |
| edisonxiang | saggi: perhaps we can take a look at this patch.https://review.openstack.org/#/c/298060/ | 09:19 |
| saggi | edisonxiang: This is the log for the scheduled operations. | 09:21 |
| edisonxiang | saggi: got it | 09:21 |
| chenying_ | saggi I am clear about this operationlogs API. My question is that when to create/ update these operationlogs data? xinyong's question is that where to save the data about operationlogs? | 09:22 |
| chenying_ | xinyong plan to get the operationlogs data from scheduledoperationlogs database table, but its status only mean the protect api have been called successfully. | 09:23 |
| edisonxiang | saggi: do you have some ideas what to show in the "operation logs" module of dashboard? | 09:24 |
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| edisonxiang | show scheduled operation logs or operation logs? | 09:25 |
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| edisonxiang | I am a little confused about this question | 09:26 |
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| chenying_ | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/298060/ The operationlogs API in this patch only cover the protect action, it doesn't include restore\delete action. At present only protect action is invoked by operationengine service. | 09:27 |
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| saggi | I don't understand why we even have 2 types of logs. | 09:29 |
| edisonxiang | :) | 09:29 |
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| saggi | AFAIK there should only be a log for scheduled operations runs. | 09:30 |
| saggi | When we start a scheduled operation we create a log for it that tracks it's progress. | 09:30 |
| zhonghua | so do I | 09:30 |
| saggi | What is the other log tracking? | 09:30 |
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| chenying_ | saggi the scheduledoperationlogs database table have introduced to karbor with the implementation of operationengine servie. It is internal. It have not been exposed to user. | 09:31 |
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| saggi | chenying, what are they for? | 09:31 |
| chenying_ | saggi It is used for recording the call log of scheduledoperation. but its status now mean the protect api have been called successfully. | 09:33 |
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| edisonxiang | saggi: understood. We will show logs which are created by scheduled operations in the Horizon | 09:36 |
| saggi | OK, the original way we planned on doing it was that whenever an scheduled operation is triggered a log is created. That log status is only changed to 'finish' when the whole operation was finished. Everything was done. Each operation can have entries in it. The entries are simple messages. They could notify the user something like: "Protect started on plan", "Protect finished on plan", "Started searching for old checkpoints" | 09:37 |
| saggi | That way the user can see the stage the operation is at during it's run | 09:37 |
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| saggi | The log is like a log file and the entries are log lines | 09:38 |
| saggi | The DB schema needs to reflect that. | 09:38 |
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| edisonxiang | yeah | 09:38 |
| edisonxiang | It seems we need to make some changes on the present table stucture | 09:39 |
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| saggi | 👍 | 09:39 |
| chenying_ | saggi Yes I see. | 09:39 |
| edisonxiang | :P | 09:40 |
| saggi | #topic weekly meeting wiki page | 09:40 |
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| *** openstack changes topic to "weekly meeting wiki page (Meeting topic: karbor)" | 09:40 | |
| saggi | I saw that other projects replace the entire page instead of keeping historic records of the agenda throughout time. | 09:41 |
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| saggi | what do you guys think about it | 09:41 |
| saggi | I want to only display the next meeting's agenda and delete the old agendas | 09:41 |
| zhonghua | how to replace? removement? | 09:41 |
| saggi | Just replace, after each meeting clear the page and change the date. | 09:42 |
| edisonxiang | saggi: Agree with you | 09:43 |
| edisonxiang | +1 | 09:43 |
| zhonghua | +1 | 09:43 |
| chenying_ | +1 | 09:43 |
| saggi | Than it's agreed. | 09:43 |
| edisonxiang | we can delete the old agendas | 09:43 |
| saggi | I think it's better. Now you need to scroll the page to see the agenda | 09:44 |
| saggi | I'll do it now | 09:44 |
| edisonxiang | Thanks saggi | 09:44 |
| saggi | #topic open discussion | 09:45 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: karbor)" | 09:45 | |
| saggi | I saw zengchen gave a +1 on https://review.openstack.org/#/c/397156/ | 09:45 |
| saggi | chenying if you give a +2 we can merge the spec | 09:45 |
| saggi | So please see that you agree with it or give comments | 09:45 |
| chenying_ | saggi I don't have any comments about yuval's plugins specs. I have +1 already. | 09:46 |
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| chenying_ | But there are some more work to be considered about the implementations patch. I give some comments about it. | 09:47 |
| saggi | chenying, sorry it was deleted because of an update | 09:47 |
| saggi | chenying, good. Your feedback is much appreciated | 09:47 |
| chenying_ | Ok I see. I will review the spec later. | 09:47 |
| saggi | Anything else? | 09:48 |
| edisonxiang | by the way, https://review.openstack.org/#/c/403965/ | 09:48 |
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| edisonxiang | about this patch, it seems like yizhihui has some questions | 09:49 |
| chenying_ | karbor/services/protection/protectable_plugins/eisoo/oracle.py About the eisoo client module, I think it belong to the vendors's code, it a part of vendor plugins implementation. It could be moved to the directory of vendor plugins. What's your opinion about it? | 09:49 |
| saggi | chenying, you mean like `karbor/services/protection/protectable_plugins/vendor/eisoo/oracle.py` ? | 09:50 |
| chenying_ | My question is about vendor's client implementation. Put it to where? | 09:52 |
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| zhonghua | chenying_, what's your suggestion? | 09:52 |
| saggi | You mean protectable implementation? | 09:53 |
| saggi | The actual client needs to be a dependency not in out codebase like cinder-client | 09:53 |
| chenying_ | I give a comment about the Directory of vendor's client implementation in this patch. https://review.openstack.org/#/c/403965/ | 09:53 |
| edisonxiang | I think the present code structure is very good. "karbor/services/protection/clients/eisoo.py" | 09:54 |
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| zhonghua | chenying_, do you mean the karbor.services.protection.clents should be move out of framework folder into vendor folder? | 09:55 |
| chenying_ | The vendor's protectable and protection plugins both need use vendor's client. So my question is that put it to where? | 09:55 |
| zhonghua | s/move/moved | 09:55 |
| chenying_ | vendor's client implementation. | 09:55 |
| zhonghua | ok, the model | 09:56 |
| saggi | chenying, I understand. Why should we put it in a different folder? | 09:56 |
| saggi | /karbor/services/protection/clients/<vendor_name> is OK with me | 09:57 |
| chenying_ | saggi IMO, the client is part of plugins implementation. | 09:57 |
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| edisonxiang | saggi: +1 | 09:58 |
| saggi | chenying what do you suggest? | 09:58 |
| zhonghua | saggi, +1 | 09:58 |
| chenying_ | +1 | 09:58 |
| zhangshuai | +1 | 09:58 |
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| edisonxiang | :) | 10:01 |
| chenying_ | #endmeeting karbor\ | 10:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 10:01 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Dec 6 10:01:47 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 10:01 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/karbor/2016/karbor.2016-12-06-09.01.html | 10:01 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/karbor/2016/karbor.2016-12-06-09.01.txt | 10:01 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/karbor/2016/karbor.2016-12-06-09.01.log.html | 10:01 |
| edisonxiang | bye | 10:02 |
| saggi | 😖 | 10:02 |
| saggi | 😕 | 10:02 |
| chenying_ | bye | 10:02 |
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| yanyanhu | #startmeeting senlin | 12:59 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Dec 6 12:59:50 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is yanyanhu. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 12:59 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 12:59 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: senlin)" | 12:59 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'senlin' | 12:59 |
| yanyanhu | hello, everyone | 13:00 |
| XueFeng | hi,all | 13:00 |
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| yanyanhu | hi, XueFeng | 13:00 |
| lvdongbing | hi | 13:00 |
| yanyanhu | hi, lvdongbing | 13:00 |
| XueFeng | hi,yanyan,dongbing | 13:00 |
| lvdongbing | :) | 13:01 |
| Ruijie_ | evening :) | 13:01 |
| yanyanhu | evening :) | 13:01 |
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| Qiming | hi | 13:01 |
| yanyanhu | hi, Qiming | 13:01 |
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| yanyanhu | ok, lets start | 13:02 |
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| yanyanhu | here is the agenda, please feel free to add items | 13:02 |
| yanyanhu | https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/SenlinAgenda#Agenda_.282016-11-22_1300_UTC.29 | 13:02 |
| yanyanhu | #topic ocata workitems | 13:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "ocata workitems (Meeting topic: senlin)" | 13:02 | |
| yanyanhu | https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/senlin-ocata-workitems | 13:02 |
| yanyanhu | ok, lets start from ocata workitems | 13:02 |
| yanyanhu | test | 13:03 |
| yanyanhu | I think Ruijie_ has spent sometime to understand senlin rally plugin? | 13:03 |
| yanyanhu | some time | 13:03 |
| Ruijie_ | yes, yanyanhu, working on it | 13:04 |
| yanyanhu | related workitem has been put back to TODO list, so please feel free to pick it up :) | 13:04 |
| yanyanhu | thanks a lot for working on t | 13:04 |
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| yanyanhu | please ping me any time you meet problem | 13:04 |
| yanyanhu | hi, electrofelix | 13:04 |
| Ruijie_ | just proposed a patch about cluster_scale_in' | 13:04 |
| Ruijie_ | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/407433/ | 13:04 |
| elynn | Hi sorry I'm late. | 13:04 |
| Ruijie_ | sure :) | 13:04 |
| yanyanhu | sorry, electrofelix, wrong ping :) | 13:05 |
| yanyanhu | hi, elynn | 13:05 |
| yanyanhu | elynn, no problem :) | 13:05 |
| elynn | ;) | 13:05 |
| yanyanhu | ok, next one | 13:05 |
| yanyanhu | Health management | 13:05 |
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| yanyanhu | xinhui is not here I guess? | 13:05 |
| yanyanhu | I have read the patch xinhui proposed | 13:06 |
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| yanyanhu | it looks good | 13:06 |
| yanyanhu | just a small question about the detail | 13:06 |
| yanyanhu | may need to confirm with her offline | 13:07 |
| elynn | Have you discuss about it? | 13:07 |
| yanyanhu | no, just left comment there | 13:07 |
| yanyanhu | let me find the patch | 13:07 |
| yanyanhu | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/402296/ | 13:07 |
| yanyanhu | this one | 13:07 |
| yanyanhu | just have a question about the location to generate event | 13:08 |
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| yanyanhu | the same as the question from Michael | 13:09 |
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| yanyanhu | I recalled xinhui said ocatavia team hope us to join their meeting to discuss this proposal | 13:10 |
| yanyanhu | may need to have further discussion on it | 13:10 |
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| yanyanhu | ok, lets move on | 13:10 |
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| yanyanhu | versioned request | 13:10 |
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| yanyanhu | only receiver_notify and webhook_trigger left I guess | 13:11 |
| yanyanhu | hi, XueFeng, has your part been done? | 13:11 |
| XueFeng | action create/delete need to do | 13:11 |
| Qiming | seems there are still a few left to do | 13:11 |
| yanyanhu | I see | 13:11 |
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| yanyanhu | will work on it soon | 13:11 |
| yanyanhu | hope this can be done by this week | 13:12 |
| XueFeng | If senlinclient need add action create/delete? | 13:12 |
| XueFeng | OK | 13:12 |
| XueFeng | Will do it tomorrow | 13:12 |
| yanyanhu | since next week will be the time for ocata-2 | 13:12 |
| yanyanhu | XueFeng, thanks a lot :) | 13:12 |
| Qiming | just search the word 'request_context' | 13:12 |
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| Qiming | if all have changed to 'request_context2', it means we have get the whole thing completed | 13:13 |
| yanyanhu | yes | 13:13 |
| XueFeng | ok | 13:13 |
| yanyanhu | than we can remove those old service calls | 13:13 |
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| yanyanhu | and switch to new ones | 13:13 |
| Qiming | rename all the xyz2 to xyz | 13:14 |
| yanyanhu | yep | 13:14 |
| XueFeng | yes | 13:14 |
| yanyanhu | ok, lets move on | 13:14 |
| yanyanhu | container profile | 13:14 |
| yanyanhu | haiwei is also not here I think | 13:14 |
| xuhaiwei | I am here | 13:14 |
| yanyanhu | sorry :) | 13:14 |
| xuhaiwei | just get in | 13:15 |
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| XueFeng | About container, I used it this week.@xuhaiwei | 13:15 |
| yanyanhu | XueFeng, met any problem? | 13:15 |
| xuhaiwei | XueFeng, you can report bug :) | 13:15 |
| xuhaiwei | shall we discuss about the container image? | 13:16 |
| yanyanhu | xuhaiwei, I noticed some change on DB apis | 13:16 |
| yanyanhu | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/404547/ | 13:16 |
| yanyanhu | but just some user invisible change | 13:17 |
| XueFeng | Need some guideline, I can't use it smooth:( | 13:17 |
| XueFeng | smoothly | 13:17 |
| yanyanhu | I guess we still don't have a doc or guide for creating container cluster :) | 13:17 |
| XueFeng | Need add | 13:18 |
| Qiming | XueFeng, does it work? | 13:18 |
| yanyanhu | that will be the best if there could be an example | 13:18 |
| Qiming | I was only reading the code and doing imagination, aka, day dreaming | 13:18 |
| XueFeng | I create a vm cluster | 13:18 |
| xuhaiwei | XueFeng, maybe this can help you a little https://github.com/openstack/senlin/blob/master/doc/specs/approved/container-cluster.rst | 13:19 |
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| XueFeng | use ubuntu image which installed docker and py-docker | 13:19 |
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| xuhaiwei | XueFeng, the image doesn't work, I think | 13:20 |
| xuhaiwei | XueFeng, you should make the docker daemon running in the vm when it is started | 13:20 |
| XueFeng | I do this | 13:21 |
| XueFeng | We can discuss in #senlin later | 13:21 |
| xuhaiwei | ok, I used to test it before, it worked, but didn't test it recently | 13:21 |
| yanyanhu | yes, and I think we need a doc for it finally | 13:22 |
| xuhaiwei | yanyanhu, yes, agree | 13:22 |
| yanyanhu | or at least a simple guide :) | 13:22 |
| XueFeng | The biggest problem maybe the docker network?@xuhaiwei | 13:22 |
| yanyanhu | to help user understand how to set it up | 13:22 |
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| xuhaiwei | XueFeng, I am not sure, I didn't meet the network problem before | 13:23 |
| yanyanhu | XueFeng, you mean the network connection between senlin engine and docker deamon inside VM? | 13:23 |
| xuhaiwei | I think so | 13:24 |
| XueFeng | Yes | 13:24 |
| Qiming | why is that a problem? | 13:24 |
| yanyanhu | if senlin-engine is not located in network controller, that could be a problem | 13:24 |
| Qiming | then heat won't be able to do software config, right? | 13:25 |
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| xuhaiwei | XueFeng, you should confirm if the docker client get the right url to docker daemon | 13:25 |
| Qiming | all os-collect-config ... things will break | 13:25 |
| yanyanhu | um, it's a little different I think | 13:25 |
| yanyanhu | but basically yes | 13:25 |
| Qiming | and ansible won't be usable | 13:25 |
| yanyanhu | right | 13:25 |
| Qiming | although I know a lot of people/projects are deploying software into vms using ansible | 13:26 |
| Qiming | ansible is just a ssh | 13:26 |
| xuhaiwei | according to my test, if docker client gets the right url, it can reach to the docker daemon | 13:26 |
| yanyanhu | so, haiwei, maybe you can share some details abot the deployment progress with XueFeng | 13:26 |
| xuhaiwei | sure, yanyanhu | 13:27 |
| XueFeng | thanks :) | 13:27 |
| yanyanhu | thanks, xuhaiwei | 13:27 |
| yanyanhu | ok, lets talk more about this issue later | 13:28 |
| yanyanhu | lets move on | 13:28 |
| yanyanhu | event/notification | 13:28 |
| xuhaiwei | XueFeng, I think you need to check two things, if docker engine is running, and if docker client got the right url | 13:28 |
| yanyanhu | hi, Qiming, I think most work has been done? | 13:28 |
| XueFeng | ok. xuhaiwei | 13:28 |
| yanyanhu | the basic support | 13:28 |
| Qiming | last patch for notification working poc is there for review | 13:28 |
| Qiming | next thing is about adding some configuration options | 13:29 |
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| yanyanhu | https://review.openstack.org/406595 | 13:29 |
| yanyanhu | this one | 13:29 |
| Qiming | so that users can customize the event types and levels to log, even options for different drivers | 13:29 |
| yanyanhu | ok, great | 13:29 |
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| Qiming | then ... docs | 13:29 |
| yanyanhu | then we can write some story about it | 13:30 |
| yanyanhu | yes | 13:30 |
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| yanyanhu | will review the patch soon | 13:30 |
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| yanyanhu | so those are all items in the list | 13:31 |
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| yanyanhu | if there is no more question, lets go to next topic | 13:31 |
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| Qiming | one thing about docker | 13:31 |
| Qiming | just 1 min | 13:31 |
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| yanyanhu | yes | 13:32 |
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| Qiming | xuhaiwei, pls review https://review.openstack.org/#/c/407412/ | 13:32 |
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| Qiming | it is about a refactoring of the dependency building | 13:32 |
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| Qiming | thx | 13:32 |
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| yanyanhu | ok, lets move on? | 13:33 |
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| Qiming | sure | 13:34 |
| yanyanhu | #topic Senlin based VDU support in Taker | 13:34 |
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| yanyanhu | hi, xuhaiwei, still there? | 13:34 |
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| Qiming | ... Tacker | 13:34 |
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| yanyanhu | ah, sorry, misclick | 13:34 |
| yanyanhu | so have you guys reply to the invitation? | 13:34 |
| yanyanhu | to join the meeting in Dec.14 | 13:35 |
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| Ruijie_ | what invitation | 13:35 |
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| yanyanhu | 0530UTC | 13:35 |
| Qiming | I saw haiwei responded | 13:35 |
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| yanyanhu | Ruijie_, tacker team invite us to join their weekly meeting to discuss the senlin based VDU support | 13:35 |
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| yanyanhu | Qiming, ok | 13:36 |
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| yanyanhu | so maybe we can have a discussion about it before that meeting | 13:36 |
| Ruijie_ | thanks yanyanhu, will check | 13:36 |
| yanyanhu | to make everything clear | 13:36 |
| Qiming | good idea | 13:37 |
| yanyanhu | Ruijie_, it's not a public invitation :) but we both can join it | 13:37 |
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| yanyanhu | yes, since I think not everyone of the team is clear about the background or the purpose of that proposal | 13:37 |
| yanyanhu | this is an important use case for us I believe | 13:37 |
| XueFeng | ok , whis url? | 13:37 |
| XueFeng | where | 13:37 |
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| yanyanhu | so hope everyone can get better understand on it | 13:38 |
| Qiming | the major concern, as far as I understand, is about translating TOSCA into policies parsable by Heat (or Senlin) | 13:38 |
| yanyanhu | XueFeng, will ask haiwei and share it with the team | 13:38 |
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| Qiming | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/352943/ | 13:38 |
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| Qiming | in the NFV world, people need to manage resource (their term, VDUs) pools, making them scalable and resilient | 13:39 |
| Qiming | that is a high-level requirement | 13:39 |
| yanyanhu | actually I didn't quite understand that diagram... | 13:39 |
| XueFeng | great, will check | 13:40 |
| yanyanhu | especially about the translation for hot template which will be used as profile spec | 13:40 |
| Qiming | Tacker is mainly about VNF orchestration, and they don't want to reinvent the wheel, doing everything from scratch | 13:40 |
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| Qiming | it is a tosca parser thing, yanyanhu, I asked Sahdev about this, it is a trivial job for them | 13:41 |
| yanyanhu | I see. | 13:41 |
| Qiming | generating heat templates or senlin spes means almost the same to them | 13:41 |
| yanyanhu | yes, if the translation can be done between tosca template and senlin profile directly, that will be the best | 13:41 |
| Qiming | just the Tacker team prefers using heat, which can bundle a lot of things together | 13:41 |
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| yanyanhu | Qiming, yes, understand that requirement | 13:42 |
| yanyanhu | since vm cluster is not the only resource they need to orchestrate | 13:42 |
| Qiming | what I wanted to remind them is about operation | 13:42 |
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| Qiming | they will experience a lot of headaches if sticking to large templates for all use cases | 13:43 |
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| yanyanhu | yes, that could be a problem | 13:43 |
| Qiming | I believe haiwei has some more details, especially regarding the translation and landing workflow | 13:44 |
| yanyanhu | yes, want to listen to his idea | 13:44 |
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| yanyanhu | will talk with him tomorrow to find a time for further discussion | 13:44 |
| yanyanhu | to help the team to understand it | 13:44 |
| yanyanhu | through irc or call | 13:44 |
| Qiming | meeting time: meeting to 0530UTC starting Wed Dec 14th | 13:44 |
| Qiming | sounds great | 13:45 |
| yanyanhu | yes, hope everyone who is interested in this topic can join it | 13:45 |
| yanyanhu | ok, any more question about this topic? | 13:45 |
| yanyanhu | ok, open discussion | 13:46 |
| yanyanhu | #topic open discussion | 13:46 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: senlin)" | 13:46 | |
| yanyanhu | oh, one thing I want to remind the team is next week will be ocata 2 | 13:47 |
| Qiming | ... what? | 13:47 |
| yanyanhu | yes, Dec 12-16 | 13:47 |
| yanyanhu | based on the schedule | 13:47 |
| yanyanhu | this is a really short cycle... | 13:48 |
| yanyanhu | and ocata3 will be Jan 23-27 | 13:48 |
| yanyanhu | the last week before China spring festival | 13:48 |
| Qiming | okay | 13:48 |
| yanyanhu | so please pay more attention on the timeline :) | 13:49 |
| Qiming | are we gonna make some release plans? | 13:49 |
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| yanyanhu | Qiming, yes, definitely | 13:49 |
| yanyanhu | I will try to start a etherpad on it | 13:49 |
| yanyanhu | and hope to have further discussion based on it | 13:49 |
| Qiming | maybe just using the ocata workitems etherpad? | 13:50 |
| yanyanhu | Qiming, yes | 13:50 |
| Qiming | highlight some work items we want to complete by O2 and O3? | 13:50 |
| yanyanhu | will list our goals there | 13:50 |
| yanyanhu | those goals we setup at the beginning of this cycle | 13:50 |
| Qiming | okay | 13:51 |
| yanyanhu | #action yanyanhu list goals of ocata release in etherpad | 13:51 |
| Qiming | guys, I just did some bad things | 13:51 |
| yanyanhu | what... | 13:51 |
| Qiming | self approved a patch again | 13:51 |
| Qiming | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/407427/ | 13:51 |
| Qiming | I commited it on master branch | 13:51 |
| yanyanhu | no problem :) | 13:51 |
| Qiming | then ... dependencys become a mess again | 13:52 |
| yanyanhu | ... | 13:52 |
| Qiming | anyway, pls review | 13:52 |
| yanyanhu | that is a bad news... | 13:52 |
| yanyanhu | sure | 13:52 |
| Qiming | deleted 32 lines of code with that patch, :D | 13:52 |
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| yanyanhu | :) | 13:52 |
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| XueFeng | :) | 13:53 |
| yanyanhu | will looks through those opened patches tomorrow | 13:53 |
| yanyanhu | trapped by some other things recently... | 13:53 |
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| yanyanhu | ok, any more topics for discussion :) | 13:53 |
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| yanyanhu | if not, we can release the channel a litte earlier this time :P | 13:54 |
| XueFeng | About bare metal | 13:54 |
| Ruijie_ | no from me :) | 13:54 |
| yanyanhu | XueFeng, yes | 13:54 |
| Qiming | no from me | 13:55 |
| XueFeng | Does it in progress? | 13:55 |
| yanyanhu | XueFeng, nope I think | 13:55 |
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| yanyanhu | but we do need support on baremetal | 13:55 |
| XueFeng | ok | 13:56 |
| yanyanhu | so very appreciative if anyone can work on it :) | 13:56 |
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| XueFeng | yep | 13:56 |
| yanyanhu | ok, I think that's all for this meeting | 13:56 |
| yanyanhu | thanks all you guys for joining | 13:56 |
| yanyanhu | have a good night :) | 13:57 |
| XueFeng | Need more discuss about it. | 13:57 |
| yanyanhu | XueFeng, sure | 13:57 |
| elynn | thanks and have a good night | 13:57 |
| yanyanhu | we can discuss it later | 13:57 |
| XueFeng | good night | 13:57 |
| yanyanhu | #endmeeting | 13:57 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 13:57 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Dec 6 13:57:31 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 13:57 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/senlin/2016/senlin.2016-12-06-12.59.html | 13:57 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/senlin/2016/senlin.2016-12-06-12.59.txt | 13:57 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/senlin/2016/senlin.2016-12-06-12.59.log.html | 13:57 |
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| rossella_s | time to start | 14:00 |
| rossella_s | #startmeeting networking | 14:00 |
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| openstack | Meeting started Tue Dec 6 14:00:19 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is rossella_s. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 14:00 |
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| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 14:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: networking)" | 14:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'networking' | 14:00 |
| ataraday | hi | 14:01 |
| rossella_s | I hope somebody is there for the team meeting or are you all on holidays? | 14:01 |
| rossella_s | ataraday, hi | 14:01 |
| johnsom | o/ | 14:01 |
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| rossella_s | #topic Announcements | 14:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Announcements (Meeting topic: networking)" | 14:01 | |
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| dasm | o/ | 14:01 |
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| rossella_s | just wanted to reminder reviewers to have a look at the dashboard to identify priorities | 14:02 |
| rossella_s | #link http://status.openstack.org/reviews/ | 14:02 |
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| rossella_s | the PTG is also approaching | 14:02 |
| alraddarla_ | o/ | 14:02 |
| dasm | talking about priorities. | 14:02 |
| rossella_s | #link https://www.openstack.org/ptg/ | 14:02 |
| dasm | next week is O-2 | 14:02 |
| dasm | #link https://releases.openstack.org/ocata/schedule.html#o-2 | 14:03 |
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| rossella_s | dasm indeed | 14:03 |
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| rossella_s | I don't have any other announcement, let's move on | 14:04 |
| rossella_s | #link https://launchpad.net/neutron/+milestone/ocata-2 | 14:04 |
| rossella_s | #topic blueprints | 14:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "blueprints (Meeting topic: networking)" | 14:04 | |
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| rossella_s | I wanted to give an update regarding the sec group logging blueprint | 14:04 |
| rossella_s | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/203509/ | 14:05 |
| rossella_s | the spec is in a good shape and I'd like to ask other people to review it | 14:05 |
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| rossella_s | does anybody want to add anything else about blueprints? | 14:06 |
| ataraday | enginefacade is in progress :) | 14:06 |
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| rossella_s | ataraday, great! | 14:07 |
| rossella_s | #topic OVO/no API downtime? | 14:07 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OVO/no API downtime? (Meeting topic: networking)" | 14:07 | |
| ataraday | it will require several refactors which are in progress. I want to ask to take a look at this https://review.openstack.org/#/c/398873/ breaking one :) | 14:07 |
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| korzen | Hi, so we are progressing with OVO adoption | 14:08 |
| rossella_s | It seems I have changed topic too early | 14:08 |
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| korzen | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/q/topic:bp/adopt-oslo-versioned-objects-for-db | 14:08 |
| korzen | I have updated the devref | 14:09 |
| korzen | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/336518/ Docs for NeutronDbObject: | 14:09 |
| rossella_s | korzen, cool | 14:09 |
| korzen | Ihar has updated the spec: | 14:09 |
| korzen | #link https://review.openstack.org/386685 Plan to support no-downtime upgrade for neutron-server | 14:09 |
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| korzen | please take a look and review | 14:09 |
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| korzen | one thing that is still not addressed is that we have db object as property in NeutronDbObject | 14:10 |
| korzen | and it is detached from sesssion | 14:10 |
| korzen | which is blocking the integration of OVO with extensions | 14:10 |
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| korzen | because extensions that are defining the relationship in DB | 14:11 |
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| korzen | are not able to call its extension when extend_<port/subnet/network>_dict is called | 14:11 |
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| ataraday | korzen, I faced the same with new enginefacade | 14:11 |
| korzen | ataraday, oh, I wanted to get in touch with you to see if you have the solution... | 14:12 |
| korzen | the first online data migration will be tried for distributed port binding for LM | 14:13 |
| korzen | we will see how it will go | 14:13 |
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| lindycoder | o/ | 14:14 |
| korzen | and I guess that is all | 14:14 |
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| ataraday | korzen, I and Kevin decided to move call extend_<port/subnet/network>_dict under the same session or do context.session.add(obj) before, you can ping me for details | 14:14 |
| korzen | ataraday, ok thanks | 14:15 |
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| rossella_s | korzen, anything else to add? | 14:16 |
| korzen | it is all | 14:16 |
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| rossella_s | korzen, thanks | 14:16 |
| rossella_s | #topic Bugs and Gate issues | 14:16 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Bugs and Gate issues (Meeting topic: networking)" | 14:16 | |
| rossella_s | keep an eye on the CI and let's try to keep the failure rate of the tests under control | 14:17 |
| rossella_s | #link http://grafana.openstack.org/dashboard/db/neutron-failure-rate | 14:17 |
| johnsom | I wanted to mention that I have finished moving the neutron-lbaas bugs out of the neutron launchpad. | 14:17 |
| johnsom | Please move any future lbaas bugs you see to the octavia project. | 14:18 |
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| rossella_s | thanks johnsom | 14:18 |
| rossella_s | it seems the failure rate of the integrated tempest job has a spike | 14:19 |
| rossella_s | this week's bug depute is mlavalle, it's probably too early for him | 14:19 |
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| haleyb_ | rossella_s: the grenade job has a spike, fix for that in progress, https://review.openstack.org/#/c/406428/ | 14:19 |
| haleyb_ | rossella_s: i'm actually this week, but the week just started :) | 14:20 |
| rossella_s | haleyb_ I was going to ping you next...thanks for the link | 14:20 |
| haleyb_ | miguel is moving this week | 14:20 |
| rossella_s | then the wiki is wrong :D | 14:20 |
| haleyb_ | yes, i'll fix it | 14:20 |
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| rossella_s | no, sorry, it was me, the wiki is right | 14:21 |
| rossella_s | haleyb_, anything else to report this week? | 14:21 |
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| haleyb_ | there have not been any critical bugs filed this week (yet) | 14:22 |
| rossella_s | cool! | 14:22 |
| njohnston | o/ | 14:22 |
| rossella_s | any volunteer for being deputy next week? | 14:23 |
| haleyb_ | i don't know about last week, but don't remember much, people have been picking things up | 14:23 |
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| haleyb_ | i think miguel is next week | 14:23 |
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| rossella_s | miguel is week 12/12, right? for me next week should be 19/12 | 14:24 |
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| haleyb_ | i'm starting the 5th, he's the 12th | 14:25 |
| rossella_s | any volunteer for week starting the 19th? | 14:25 |
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| rossella_s | maybe korzen ? | 14:26 |
| korzen | rossella_s, I'm planning to have time off next week | 14:26 |
| john-davidge | I can do it again if there are no other volunteers | 14:26 |
| rossella_s | john-davidge, thanks a lot! | 14:27 |
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| rossella_s | it's going to be a quiet week I think | 14:27 |
| john-davidge | rossella_s: No problem :) | 14:27 |
| john-davidge | Unless Santa's workshop runs on neutron... | 14:27 |
| rossella_s | #action john-davidge bug deputy for week the 19th | 14:27 |
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| rossella_s | #topic Docs | 14:28 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Docs (Meeting topic: networking)" | 14:28 | |
| rossella_s | any update on this? | 14:28 |
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| john-davidge | Trunking guide patch is v close to merging https://review.openstack.org/#/c/361776/ | 14:29 |
| rossella_s | sweet | 14:30 |
| john-davidge | Currently just needs naother docs core, but neutron reviewers always welcome | 14:30 |
| john-davidge | *another | 14:30 |
| rossella_s | :) | 14:30 |
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| rossella_s | #topic OSC transition | 14:31 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OSC transition (Meeting topic: networking)" | 14:31 | |
| rossella_s | amotoki is not around | 14:31 |
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| njohnston | I hope amotoki is feeling better, I had heard he was sick | 14:32 |
| rossella_s | I hope that too | 14:32 |
| rossella_s | during last team meeting armax was asking for volunteers to work on this front | 14:33 |
| rossella_s | please stand up if you'd like to help | 14:33 |
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| rossella_s | #topic Neutron-lib and planned neutron refactoring | 14:34 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Neutron-lib and planned neutron refactoring (Meeting topic: networking)" | 14:35 | |
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| HenryG | hi | 14:35 |
| rossella_s | HenryG, hi! | 14:35 |
| rossella_s | HenryG, can you update us on the neutron lib work? | 14:36 |
| HenryG | Most of the impacting patches I proposed and alerted about have merged | 14:36 |
| rossella_s | nice | 14:36 |
| HenryG | It seems the world did not come to an end | 14:36 |
| HenryG | Next up is https://review.openstack.org/399891 | 14:37 |
| sindhu | rossella_s: a lot of OSC work is being taken by ppl here at OSIC and all the major transitions have patches already https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/osc-neutron-support | 14:37 |
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| HenryG | I will rebase it shortly | 14:37 |
| rossella_s | HenryG, :) | 14:37 |
| rossella_s | sindhu, thanks ! | 14:37 |
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| lindycoder | Regarding the migration to neutron-lib, i know there's the blueprints but it seems to only be listing done items, is there a list somewhere to nice to have stuff i could give a hand with? | 14:38 |
| HenryG | lindycoder: search for "from neutron\." in codesearch.o.o | 14:39 |
| HenryG | http://codesearch.openstack.org/?q=from%20neutron%5C.&i=nope&files=&repos= | 14:39 |
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| HenryG | Every import from neutron (outside neutron itself) must be addressed | 14:40 |
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| lindycoder | Oh that's a good resource, thanks | 14:40 |
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| HenryG | There's also an etherpad, trying to find it | 14:41 |
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| HenryG | https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/nl-planning | 14:42 |
| HenryG | ^^ needs more TLC | 14:42 |
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| lindycoder | (sorry... TLC?) | 14:44 |
| HenryG | tender loving care | 14:44 |
| lindycoder | Ah of course :) | 14:44 |
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| HenryG | Also this link: | 14:45 |
| HenryG | https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:open+message:%22NeutronLibImpact%22 | 14:45 |
| HenryG | (from the agenda) | 14:45 |
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| rossella_s | anything else or we can close the meeting? | 14:47 |
| HenryG | that's all from me | 14:47 |
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| electrocucaracha | just a FYI, the oslo guys are planning to release an oslo.db soon | 14:48 |
| rossella_s | thanks electrocucaracha | 14:49 |
| rossella_s | I think that's all then | 14:49 |
| rossella_s | thanks everybody! | 14:49 |
| rossella_s | #endmeeting | 14:49 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 14:49 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Dec 6 14:49:37 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 14:49 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/networking/2016/networking.2016-12-06-14.00.html | 14:49 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/networking/2016/networking.2016-12-06-14.00.txt | 14:49 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/networking/2016/networking.2016-12-06-14.00.log.html | 14:49 |
| electrocucaracha | thanks rossella_s | 14:49 |
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| sridhar_ram | #startmeeting tacker | 16:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Dec 6 16:00:26 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is sridhar_ram. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 16:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 16:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: tacker)" | 16:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'tacker' | 16:00 |
| sridhar_ram | #topic Roll Call | 16:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Roll Call (Meeting topic: tacker)" | 16:00 | |
| sridhar_ram | who is here for tacker meeting? | 16:00 |
| s3wong | o/ | 16:00 |
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| tbh | o/ | 16:00 |
| bobh | o/ | 16:00 |
| KanagarajM | o/ | 16:00 |
| sripriya | o/ | 16:01 |
| janki | o/ | 16:01 |
| sridhar_ram | howdy all !! | 16:01 |
| tung_doan | o/ | 16:01 |
| sridhar_ram | let's start... | 16:01 |
| sridhar_ram | #topic Agenda | 16:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Agenda (Meeting topic: tacker)" | 16:01 | |
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| sridhar_ram | #info https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/Tacker#Meeting_Dec_6th.2C_2016 | 16:02 |
| sridhar_ram | #chair sripriya s3wong tbh bobh | 16:02 |
| openstack | Current chairs: bobh s3wong sridhar_ram sripriya tbh | 16:02 |
| * sridhar_ram notes that a lots of cores in the table! | 16:02 | |
| sridhar_ram | #topic Announcements | 16:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Announcements (Meeting topic: tacker)" | 16:03 | |
| sridhar_ram | thanks for all those who responded to the doodle poll for tacker meeting timeslot.. | 16:03 |
| sridhar_ram | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2016-December/108405.html | 16:03 |
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| sridhar_ram | new time -> Wednesdays 0530 UTC | 16:03 |
| sridhar_ram | i understand might be challenge to some of you to attend.. | 16:04 |
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| * sridhar_ram looks at bobh | 16:04 | |
| * bobh was already sleeping.... | 16:04 | |
| sridhar_ram | #info new Tacker meeting time starting next week at Wednesdays 0530 UTC | 16:05 |
| sridhar_ram | Next.. | 16:05 |
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| sridhar_ram | Ocata is a short dev cycle... | 16:05 |
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| sridhar_ram | #link https://releases.openstack.org/ocata/schedule.html | 16:05 |
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| sridhar_ram | We only have 7 weeks left until feature freeze :( | 16:06 |
| sridhar_ram | we got to rush on things at flight to wrap by then... | 16:06 |
| sridhar_ram | this also means we need to punt some specs that are too big to fit to Pike (we can continue to the work, but will land only after Pike opens) | 16:07 |
| sridhar_ram | any thoughts / questions on these two annoucements ? | 16:07 |
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| sridhar_ram | btw, the meeting next week will be in this same channel .. #openstack-meeting | 16:08 |
| sridhar_ram | moving on... | 16:08 |
| sridhar_ram | #topic dsvm gate job update | 16:08 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "dsvm gate job update (Meeting topic: tacker)" | 16:08 | |
| sridhar_ram | #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/tacker/+bug/1646807 | 16:09 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1646807 in tacker "dsvm failure: devstack plugin is not enabled to reuse multiple times" [High,In progress] - Assigned to Tung Doan (tungdoan) | 16:09 |
| sridhar_ram | tung_doan: any update ? | 16:09 |
| tung_doan | tung_doan: my patch: tung_doan | 16:09 |
| tung_doan | tung_doan: my patch: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/404797/ | 16:09 |
| tung_doan | sridhar_ram: we have a bunch of errors with event/functions. I am still figuring out what happened to them. | 16:09 |
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| tung_doan | sridhar_ram: I found a bug with unique name issue: http://logs.openstack.org/97/404797/5/check/gate-tacker-dsvm-functional-ubuntu-xenial-nv/a04da3a/console.html#_2016-12-05_03_43_13_15505 | 16:10 |
| tung_doan | not sure if it impacts to others... | 16:10 |
| sridhar_ram | tung_doan: I see, good news that it is proceeding further from that enable_plugin issue.. | 16:10 |
| tung_doan | sridhar_ram: another question... | 16:10 |
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| sridhar_ram | KanagarajM: is this something you can help to isolate, the issues related to eventing ? | 16:11 |
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| sridhar_ram | tung_doan: what is your question? | 16:12 |
| tung_doan | sridhar_ram: can we we keep the same approach? | 16:12 |
| KanagarajM | sridhar_ram, i have checked the logs once and every where the test cases expect an event count 1 | 16:12 |
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| KanagarajM | and i believe that something wrong on the functionality issues , for example when we create vnfd | 16:12 |
| tung_doan | sridhar_ram: actually Murano has the same approach like us: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/404882/ | 16:12 |
| sridhar_ram | tung_doan: yes, we can.. no need for the trove solution as you've solved it another way (moving the source openrc line) | 16:13 |
| KanagarajM | corresponding create count would be 1 but it reports 0 | 16:13 |
| sridhar_ram | KanagarajM: I see | 16:13 |
| KanagarajM | so i suspect something wrong on the create one, so i have asked tung_doan to test it locally to isolate the issue | 16:13 |
| KanagarajM | tung_doan, any updates ? | 16:13 |
| tung_doan | sridhar_ram: KanagarajM: I will test locally today | 16:14 |
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| tung_doan | sridhar_ram: this is a bgs related to unique name issue | 16:14 |
| sridhar_ram | tung_doan: in case you are not aware, make use of this script .. https://github.com/openstack/tacker/blob/master/tools/prepare_functional_test.sh | 16:14 |
| sridhar_ram | tung_doan: run this before running 'tox -e functional <testcase>' in your local system | 16:15 |
| tung_doan | sridhar_ram: I saw that. thanks | 16:15 |
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| sridhar_ram | tung_doan: thanks a lot for taking this up, it is layers of errors | 16:15 |
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| sridhar_ram | moving on | 16:16 |
| tung_doan | sridhar_ram: np | 16:16 |
| sridhar_ram | #topic Spec: VNF creation without VNFD onboarding | 16:16 |
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| *** openstack changes topic to "Spec: VNF creation without VNFD onboarding (Meeting topic: tacker)" | 16:16 | |
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| sridhar_ram | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/405381/1/specs/ocata/vnf-inline-template.rst | 16:16 |
| sridhar_ram | janki: can you give an update? | 16:16 |
| janki | sridhar_ram, sure. | 16:16 |
| janki | The spec explains almost everything | 16:16 |
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| janki | So what I intend to do is add an argument on CLI to specify the type of the template | 16:17 |
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| janki | "inline" in this case and "vnfd" when the template used is onboarded as VNFD | 16:17 |
| janki | VNF DB will store the template. But the template won't be visibile to everyone | 16:18 |
| sripriya | janki: why will you need to specify the type? | 16:18 |
| janki | server will drop the template from "show vnf" output | 16:18 |
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| sridhar_ram | janki: okay.. "inline" will carry the whole template as a json attribute ? | 16:18 |
| janki | sripriya, just to differentiate between the 2 methods | 16:19 |
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| janki | sridhar_ram, yes, as JSON | 16:19 |
| sridhar_ram | I'd like to pause here for a sec... | 16:19 |
| sridhar_ram | quick heads up / poll for the members here, particularly the cores... | 16:19 |
| janki | sripriya, and also to implement the DB logic to drop the template | 16:19 |
| sridhar_ram | bobh: s3wong: tbh: KanagarajM: this spec talks about creating a VNF by directly passing a VNFD template as part of the create VNF API | 16:20 |
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| sridhar_ram | this is useful when the VNF / NS catalog is maintained in an NFVO running above tacker (imagine Open-O, Cloudify, etc) | 16:21 |
| KanagarajM | sridhar_ram, i reviewed once and i liked this idea | 16:21 |
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| sridhar_ram | KanagarajM: cool , that's exactly what i'm looking for .. whether you all see this as a useful addition | 16:22 |
| bobh | sounds good to me | 16:22 |
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| tbh | How and why we are adding "private" flag to the template | 16:22 |
| sridhar_ram | bobh: thanks | 16:22 |
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| sridhar_ram | tbh: fair question, now we can dig a bit on the mechanics.. | 16:22 |
| tbh | .. and will the "private" field apply to the templates which are onboarded using vnfd-create too | 16:22 |
| janki | tbh, the flag is to be added to DB so that not authorised user cannot see the template. and no, it wont be applied to onboarded vnfd | 16:23 |
| janki | I remember talking to sridhar_ram about handling the case where deployers dont want to reveal their template to others and hence the "private" flag | 16:24 |
| KanagarajM | i think we no need to differentiate, from taker point of view, once its posted over POST json, let tacker store it in vnfd table and when it returns the vnf details, it would give reference to vnfd id | 16:24 |
| sripriya | janki: and this gets applied only for inline template case | 16:25 |
| tbh | janki, in that case it must apply to onboarded templates too | 16:25 |
| tbh | janki, because the user can use tacker-nfv or open-o? | 16:25 |
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| sridhar_ram | janki: we still have a pending work item on proper multi-tenancy | 16:25 |
| KanagarajM | making vnfd as public or private would be different use case, imo | 16:25 |
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| sridhar_ram | janki: meanwhile, my understanding is, this flag (what we call that is a diff thing) will differentiate VNFD that got onboarded vs vnfd that came in directly through a vnf-create call | 16:25 |
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| janki | KanagarajM, tbh the whole point here is not storing the template to DB | 16:26 |
| KanagarajM | i think template is required, in case of scaling . | 16:26 |
| janki | but not storing in DB will create confusion when too many vnfs are deployed and couldnot be matched with the template used. so store it on db but hide it from users | 16:26 |
| KanagarajM | janki, ^^ | 16:26 |
| sridhar_ram | KanagarajM: yes, template in VNFD DB is required for various features to work.. including VNFFG | 16:27 |
| janki | tbh: onboarded means its all available to user to view. here we dont want user to see the template | 16:27 |
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| janki | KanagarajM, sridhar_ram we are storing the template in DB but hiding it from user using "private" flag | 16:27 |
| janki | "private" flag applies to DB. | 16:28 |
| janki | NOw here, we can have 2 ways: | 16:28 |
| KanagarajM | sridhar_ram, janki IMO, we no need to hide the vnfd from user as part of this blueprint. but we could add that feature to make a given vnfd is available public or only to owner, similar to glance image | 16:28 |
| sridhar_ram | janki: the intention is not to "hide" from a specific user .. the intention is just to differentiate onboarded VNFD vs inline VNFD | 16:28 |
| tbh | KanagarajM, +1 | 16:28 |
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| janki | sridhar_ram, sripriya to differentiate between onboarded and inline, its "--template-type" argument on CLI. | 16:29 |
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| sridhar_ram | KanagarajM: agree we don't need to hide, but the concern is .. if there are tons of inline-VNFs .. your 'show vnfd-list' will be too long | 16:29 |
| sripriya | janki: even for inline template, you internally invoke the vnfd create and store it in db? | 16:29 |
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| sridhar_ram | KanagarajM: we can introduce a 'show vnf-list --inline' to show them .. there is no need for hiding.. | 16:30 |
| janki | sridhar_ram, I remember discussing this hiding feature long time back. so just included it here | 16:30 |
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| janki | sripriya, for inline, just call the tosca-parser internally. and store the template as is in VNF DB and NOT VNFD DB | 16:31 |
| sridhar_ram | folks - keep in mind, this inline-vnfd that sneaks into VNFD DB as part of a VNF create and it will also be "removed" after a VNF-delete | 16:31 |
| KanagarajM | sridhar_ram, let us not hide, but if we want to really filter the vnfd list, we could bring up the tagging concept, and when user post via POST JSON, tacker could tag it internally | 16:31 |
| sripriya | janki: but i believe vnfd_is in vnf sb is a foreign key of vnfd db | 16:31 |
| sripriya | vnfd_id * | 16:31 |
| KanagarajM | sridhar_ram, i agree with you on not hiding . | 16:31 |
| sridhar_ram | KanagarajM: ack, we can have some sort of a "filter view" to show / not show these types of VNFDs in the VNFD DB | 16:32 |
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| sripriya | sridhar_ram: i dont think there is an entry in vnfd db | 16:32 |
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| sridhar_ram | sripriya: sorry, what you mean? | 16:33 |
| tbh | janki, sripriya, yeah so internally we need to invoke vnfd-create? | 16:33 |
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| sripriya | sridhar_ram: as janki mentioned, there is no vnfd create call internally for inline template | 16:33 |
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| sripriya | sridhar_Ram: so vnfd db is not touched here | 16:33 |
| * sridhar_ram scanning the spec quickly... | 16:34 | |
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| sridhar_ram | sripriya: ack.. | 16:34 |
| sridhar_ram | hmm... | 16:34 |
| janki | sridhar_ram, sripriya I am thinking to store the template in VNF DB and not VNFD DB | 16:34 |
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| sripriya | janki: my concern is on the design of this spec since the backend has vnfd_id as a FK constraint in vnf table | 16:35 |
| sridhar_ram | many features in tacker relies on an entry in VNFD template.. they need to intercepted to handle this variation | 16:35 |
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| sripriya | janki: so this will fail on the backend when you create a uuid for vnfd and store in vnf db | 16:35 |
| janki | but then since we are dropping the hiding thing and there is a foreign key constraint, we can store in vnfd db | 16:35 |
| janki | sripriya, ^ | 16:35 |
| * sridhar_ram notes, we have 5mins left for this topic | 16:35 | |
| tbh | sridhar_ram, sripriya , janki I was assuming if we add flag to VNFD in VNFD DB(to mean it is inline template) we can easily use the same procedure as we are using now. And when vnf-delete is carried on we can check the flag and remove the VNFD too | 16:35 |
| sridhar_ram | tbh: i assumed that as well ;-) | 16:36 |
| KanagarajM | if we don't use vnfd table, it leads to affect the tacker model, as tacker already models vnfd and it should be followed across | 16:36 |
| sripriya | tbh: KanagarajM ack | 16:36 |
| sridhar_ram | janki: any reason a solution that tbh proposes won't work ? | 16:36 |
| janki | sridhar_ram, tbh it will work | 16:37 |
| janki | I thought the same before, but beacuse of "hiding" thing proposed to use VNF DB | 16:37 |
| sridhar_ram | janki: now that we are all in the same page, any downsides to such an approach ? | 16:37 |
| janki | none that I can think of currently | 16:37 |
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| sridhar_ram | janki: okay.. | 16:38 |
| sripriya | janki: are we going to show to a user in vnfd list if an entry is inline template or onboarded ? | 16:38 |
| janki | infact this will also reduce VNF DB changes | 16:38 |
| janki | sripriya, yes. | 16:38 |
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| sridhar_ram | sripriya: we should not by default, unless there is a explicit flag asking to show inline templates | 16:38 |
| janki | sridhar_ram +1 | 16:39 |
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| sripriya | sridhar_ram: so list will NOT contain inline template entries right? | 16:39 |
| sridhar_ram | sripriya: yes | 16:39 |
| sripriya | sridhar_ram: thanks | 16:40 |
| janki | sridhar_ram, sripriya "list" must show the entry but not show the template content | 16:40 |
| sridhar_ram | folks / cores - please review this spec, particularly with any downsides .. | 16:40 |
| sridhar_ram | janki: do you think this will fit Ocata dev cycle ? | 16:40 |
| janki | sridhar_ram, yes it will fit | 16:40 |
| KanagarajM | sridhar_ram, sure. | 16:40 |
| sridhar_ram | alright, lets move on to the next topic... | 16:41 |
| tbh | sridhar_ram, ack | 16:41 |
| sridhar_ram | #topic Spec: Containerized VNFs | 16:41 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Spec: Containerized VNFs (Meeting topic: tacker)" | 16:41 | |
| janki | sridhar_ram, sripriya "vnf list" wont show the template content. "vnf list --flag" will show the content too | 16:41 |
| sridhar_ram | #link https://review.openstack.org/397233 | 16:41 |
| sridhar_ram | again, back to janki :) | 16:41 |
| sripriya | janki: we can take it up on gerrit | 16:42 |
| janki | we discussed this in one of the meetings. Appropriate option is to use Zun | 16:42 |
| janki | But I am encouraging on starting the implementation with Magnum/Kuryr and then keep on evolving later on | 16:42 |
| sridhar_ram | first - based on Barcelona summit, is there enough interest in this topic ? | 16:42 |
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| sripriya | sridhar_ram: yes IMO | 16:43 |
| janki | sridhar_ram, yes there is. Nokia guys discussed this in kuryr design session | 16:43 |
| sridhar_ram | sripriya: okay.. | 16:43 |
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| sridhar_ram | Now, my suggestion is put away all the technologies and projects names .. zun, magnum, kuryr, etc.. and think what we won't to offer to tacker users | 16:44 |
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| sridhar_ram | I'm afraid we are starting backwards by picking the technology first and then working to see what we can do | 16:44 |
| janki | to run VDU as a container instead of VM | 16:44 |
| sridhar_ram | i think it shd be the other way around | 16:44 |
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| bobh | sridhar_ram: seems like that should be an attribute of the VNFD - specify container instead of image | 16:45 |
| sridhar_ram | janki: then, lets start by imaging a TOSCA template that describes VDUs as Container node types.. | 16:45 |
| janki | tacker already supports this sridhar_ram | 16:45 |
| sridhar_ram | s/imaging/imagining/ | 16:45 |
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| sridhar_ram | janki: that you mean ? this spec needs to show a sample TOSCA NFV template with containers | 16:46 |
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| janki | sridhar_ram, done. will do that | 16:46 |
| sridhar_ram | bobh: +1 | 16:47 |
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| sridhar_ram | anyone know if tosca-parser team is taking up any container node_type work ? | 16:47 |
| tbh | bobh, in the tosca_nfv_profile, can we specify container nodetype? | 16:47 |
| bobh | tbh: I think you could define your own container nodetype - I don't know that there is one pre-defined | 16:48 |
| bobh | sridhar_ram: I don't know of anything specific but I can see if spzala knows of anything | 16:48 |
| sridhar_ram | bobh: thanks.. | 16:48 |
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| sridhar_ram | i think we need to start from there... | 16:49 |
| sridhar_ram | VDU node_type --> map to a container runtime definition | 16:49 |
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| sridhar_ram | image artifact -> map to some sort of a container registry like dockerhub | 16:49 |
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| tbh | bobh, we have customed defined type like this https://github.com/openstack/tosca-parser/blob/d59e1503cc9d3fa524f2209fdc645459f98e181a/toscaparser/tests/data/containers/test_container_docker_mysql.yaml#L20 | 16:50 |
| sridhar_ram | CP -> map to perhaps kuryr ports ? | 16:50 |
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| bobh | tbh: right - custom type will work but there is nothing native at this point | 16:51 |
| tbh | bobh, got it, thanks | 16:51 |
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| sridhar_ram | janki: my suggestion is to first flush out the "top half" of this feature first .. the TOSCA parser, the usage flow, etc... | 16:51 |
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| janki | sridhar_ram, got it... | 16:52 |
| sridhar_ram | janki: for this exercise, don't worry what magnum / zun can or cannot do | 16:52 |
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| janki | sridhar_ram, yes | 16:52 |
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| sridhar_ram | janki: sounds good.. | 16:52 |
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| sridhar_ram | let's cook this spec a bit more... ! | 16:53 |
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| sridhar_ram | it is an interesting area to indulge... | 16:53 |
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| sridhar_ram | anything else in this container-vnf topic ? | 16:54 |
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| sridhar_ram | #topic Open Discussion | 16:54 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: tacker)" | 16:54 | |
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| janki | sridhar_ram, I will update both the specs based on the discussion tomorrow morning | 16:54 |
| sridhar_ram | janki: sounds good | 16:54 |
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| janki | sridhar_ram, sripriya I also want to disucss the removal of mgmt_driver from CLI bug | 16:55 |
| sridhar_ram | janki: we have few mins, go ahead | 16:55 |
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| sripriya | janki: gerrit patch link? | 16:55 |
| janki | so we remove passing mgmt_driver from the client and it will be fetched from the template itself right | 16:55 |
| janki | sripriya, server patch is WIP not ready for review | 16:55 |
| tung_doan | sridhar_ram: it will be good if we can support container life-cycle managemnt | 16:55 |
| tung_doan | sridhar_ram: i am standing for that :) | 16:55 |
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| sridhar_ram | tung_doan: ack! thanks for the input, it helps | 16:56 |
| sripriya | janki: okay.yes, we need to remove sending that from cli parser as well as the API arg in vnfd | 16:56 |
| janki | now, if we are getting the value from template, mgmt_driver must be a compulsory attribute in the vnfd | 16:56 |
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| janki | sripriya, got it. we will get it from template. and there are few templates that dont mention mgmt_driver AFAIK | 16:57 |
| janki | so in case cases, the server should put "noop" by default | 16:57 |
| janki | ?? | 16:57 |
| janki | sridhar_ram, sripriya ^ | 16:57 |
| sripriya | janki: it should not be exposed as an API param | 16:57 |
| sridhar_ram | sripriya: +1 | 16:57 |
| janki | sripriya, yes. I have removed it on the client side. it wont be in API anymore. | 16:58 |
| sridhar_ram | mgmt_driver should be removed en masse from the API / CLI | 16:58 |
| sripriya | janki: cool | 16:58 |
| sridhar_ram | i was deprecated in newton | 16:58 |
| janki | my query is it will be fetched internally from the template right? | 16:59 |
| sripriya | sridhar_ram: you were deprecated? :P | 16:59 |
| sridhar_ram | sripriya: that will happen in the next cycle ;-) | 16:59 |
| sripriya | janki : yes | 16:59 |
| sridhar_ram | alright times up... | 16:59 |
| sridhar_ram | i think we will miss US East coast folks in the Tacker meetings good forward.. | 17:00 |
| janki | sripriya, so when the template doesnot have mgmt_driver, server should default it to noop? | 17:00 |
| sridhar_ram | particularly miss bobh :( | 17:00 |
| sridhar_ram | times up | 17:00 |
| janki | sripriya, sridhar_ram link to the patch https://review.openstack.org/#/c/396245/ | 17:00 |
| janki | bye guys | 17:00 |
| sridhar_ram | janki: lets take in the channel | 17:00 |
| janki | sridhar_ram, yes | 17:00 |
| sridhar_ram | #endmeeting | 17:00 |
| s3wong | bye | 17:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 17:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Dec 6 17:00:52 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 17:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tacker/2016/tacker.2016-12-06-16.00.html | 17:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tacker/2016/tacker.2016-12-06-16.00.txt | 17:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tacker/2016/tacker.2016-12-06-16.00.log.html | 17:00 |
| KanagarajM | bye | 17:01 |
| igordcard | #startmeeting network_common_flow_classifier | 17:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Dec 6 17:01:00 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is igordcard. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 17:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 17:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: network_common_flow_classifier)" | 17:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'network_common_flow_classifier' | 17:01 |
| igordcard | hi all | 17:01 |
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| davidsha | Hi | 17:01 |
| igordcard | let's wait 3 minutes to improve the chances of everyone being around | 17:01 |
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| davidsha | kk | 17:01 |
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| igordcard | agenda: | 17:04 |
| igordcard | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Neutron/CommonFlowClassifier#Discussion_Topic_6_December_2016 | 17:04 |
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| igordcard | #topic Continue discussion on user-facing API vs. Classification mixins. | 17:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Continue discussion on user-facing API vs. Classification mixins. (Meeting topic: network_common_flow_classifier)" | 17:04 | |
| igordcard | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/333993 | 17:04 |
| igordcard | alright, I am supposed to update the current spec to add more information to the api-based approach and the mixin-based approach | 17:05 |
| igordcard | it's in progress and should get an update soon this week | 17:05 |
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| davidsha | kk | 17:06 |
| igordcard | meanwhile I will start working on a PoC for the api-based approach | 17:06 |
| davidsha | Kk, I can try and help. | 17:07 |
| igordcard | thanks davidsha | 17:07 |
| igordcard | anyone free feel to join the effort - I'm always on IRC so just ping me | 17:07 |
| igordcard | it would also be interesting to have a PoC for the mixin-based approach, but I am focusing on the api-based approach | 17:08 |
| igordcard | besides the PoCs, I will try to keep the spec up to date with the latest efforts, both from the IRC discussions and the PoC(s) | 17:08 |
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| davidsha | It could be included as well, though it was intended for neutron_lib if I recall, but for testing we could include it in that repo | 17:09 |
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| davidsha | in the neutron_classifier repo I mean | 17:10 |
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| igordcard | davidsha: +1 | 17:10 |
| ralonsoh | which set of protocols are you going to include in this POC? | 17:10 |
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| ralonsoh | how future new protocols are going to be accepted? | 17:10 |
| igordcard | davidsha: the models part is already aligned with most of what is common to either the api-based approach or mixin-based approach | 17:10 |
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| igordcard | ralonsoh: initially for the PoC I'm thinking about something extremely simple, e.g. a "L1" classification type which would allow us to match on neutron ports or neutron networks | 17:11 |
| davidsha | Will we refer to api/mixin as resource/descriptive? just to stay consistent from last meeting. | 17:12 |
| igordcard | ralonsoh: then we could extend QoS to consume these classifications and demonstrate how the classifications are telling the QoS service where the policy should be applied | 17:12 |
| ralonsoh | igordcard: thanks! | 17:12 |
| igordcard | ralonsoh: or likewise for networking-sfc for example... for logical source ports or logical destination ports | 17:13 |
| igordcard | something simple like that | 17:13 |
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| igordcard | adding protocols in the future would be done by adding more types to the list of models underneath the classification framework... and consuming services would become compatible with the new protocols whenever they need (after the protocols are added to the framework/API) | 17:14 |
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| igordcard | davidsha: right david, resource-based and definition-based | 17:15 |
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| davidsha | igordcard: thats the one! | 17:16 |
| igordcard | so resource-based classification approach is the one where there is a single API for classification resources (api-based as I said earlier) | 17:16 |
| davidsha | An an extension would consume that resource | 17:17 |
| davidsha | And an* | 17:17 |
| igordcard | definition-based classification approach is the one where the services inherit the definitions of classifications and expose them in their own API, potentially by the use of mixins in their respective extensions (mixin-based as I said earlier) | 17:17 |
| igordcard | davidsha: yes, an extension would consume resources from the single, common classifications API in the resource-based approach | 17:18 |
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| igordcard | any questions or thoughts about the duality of approaches and next-steps around them? | 17:18 |
| davidsha | No, I'm good | 17:19 |
| igordcard | moving on... | 17:19 |
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| igordcard | #topic Call for contributors | 17:20 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Call for contributors (Meeting topic: network_common_flow_classifier)" | 17:20 | |
| igordcard | I guess I've already gone through this topic | 17:20 |
| davidsha | So do I need to withdraw my earlier application and resubmit it? :P | 17:20 |
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| igordcard | no no, you can officially submit it now, like this: :p | 17:20 |
| davidsha | :O | 17:21 |
| igordcard | #action igordcard will contribute to the resource-based (api-based) approach PoC | 17:21 |
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| davidsha | :P | 17:21 |
| igordcard | anyone else can just join | 17:22 |
| igordcard | any questions or thoughts? | 17:22 |
| davidsha | kk, no I'm good, the neutron_classifier repo already has the database definitions so we just need to make the service plugin. | 17:23 |
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| igordcard | exactly | 17:23 |
| davidsha | Maybe make a patch for an extension that could use it to test it out too. | 17:23 |
| igordcard | yeah | 17:23 |
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| igordcard | alright team | 17:24 |
| igordcard | moving on... | 17:24 |
| igordcard | #topic Open discussion | 17:24 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: network_common_flow_classifier)" | 17:24 | |
| igordcard | anything else we need to discuss? | 17:24 |
| davidsha | I'm good, we have a good Idea what we need to do. | 17:25 |
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| igordcard | alright! I guess it's all for today then | 17:26 |
| igordcard | thank you all | 17:26 |
| davidsha | Thanks, cya! | 17:26 |
| igordcard | bye | 17:26 |
| ralonsoh | bye | 17:26 |
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| igordcard | #endmeeting | 17:27 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 17:27 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Dec 6 17:27:18 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 17:27 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/network_common_flow_classifier/2016/network_common_flow_classifier.2016-12-06-17.01.html | 17:27 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/network_common_flow_classifier/2016/network_common_flow_classifier.2016-12-06-17.01.txt | 17:27 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/network_common_flow_classifier/2016/network_common_flow_classifier.2016-12-06-17.01.log.html | 17:27 |
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| annakoppad | raildo, hi | 17:30 |
| annakoppad | rodrigods, hi | 17:31 |
| raildo | hi annakoppad, can you go on #openstack-opw? | 17:31 |
| raildo | annakoppad, we will do the meeting on that channel | 17:31 |
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| stevemar | o/ | 17:58 |
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| *** agrebennikov has joined #openstack-meeting | 18:00 | |
| rodrigods | o/ | 18:00 |
| stevemar | ping agrebennikov, amakarov, annakoppad, ayoung, bknudson, breton, browne, chrisplo, crinkle, davechen, dolphm, dstanek, edmondsw, edtubill, gagehugo, gyee, henrynash, hrybacki, jamielennox, jaugustine, jgrassler, knikolla, lbragstad, kbaikov, ktychkova, morgan, nisha, nkinder, notmorgan, raildo, ravelar, rderose, rodrigods, roxanaghe, samueldmq, shaleh, spilla, srwilkers, StefanPaetowJisc, stevemar, topol | 18:00 |
| lbragstad | o/ | 18:00 |
| spilla | o/ | 18:00 |
| browne | hi | 18:00 |
| raildo | o/ | 18:00 |
| agrebennikov | o/ | 18:00 |
| gagehugo | o/ | 18:00 |
| samueldmq | hi all, good $(localtime) | 18:00 |
| stevemar | #startmeeting keystone | 18:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Dec 6 18:00:21 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is stevemar. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 18:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 18:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'keystone' | 18:00 |
| lamt | o/ | 18:00 |
| rderose | o/ | 18:01 |
| bknudson | hi | 18:01 |
| breton | o/ | 18:01 |
| stevemar | #topic announcements | 18:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "announcements (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:01 | |
| stevemar | hello all! | 18:01 |
| stevemar | Next week we are cutting Ocata-2 -- Week of Dec 12-16 -- This is also spec freeze week, specs must merge by then. | 18:01 |
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| stevemar | Any 'contentious' feature already approved, but not completed, will get bumped to Pike if it doesn't merge. | 18:02 |
| stevemar | Contentious meaning: touching a critical path (token validation / issuance), affecting many components, potentially changing output of API calls. | 18:02 |
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| dstanek | hey | 18:02 |
| stevemar | I don't think theres anything contentious that risks getting bumped (maybe the policy stuff?) but most of it is isolated | 18:02 |
| stevemar | most approved features* are isolated | 18:02 |
| ayoung | Oyez oyez | 18:03 |
| stevemar | i think i started too soon? did i lose anyone? | 18:03 |
| lbragstad | stevemar i think you're good | 18:04 |
| stevemar | okie doke | 18:04 |
| samueldmq | stevemar: so 'contentious' features (the impl) must be merged by o-2 ? | 18:04 |
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| lbragstad | samueldmq i think the spec needs to be merged | 18:04 |
| lbragstad | by o-2 | 18:04 |
| stevemar | yes, i don't think there are any, the contentious ones were the token refactoring and the expiry window stuff jamie was working on | 18:04 |
| ayoung | links? | 18:04 |
| stevemar | those are all merged | 18:04 |
| stevemar | agenda link: https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/keystone-weekly-meeting | 18:05 |
| samueldmq | stevemar: okay, but we still talking about the specs, right ? | 18:05 |
| ayoung | that is the link I was looking for | 18:05 |
| samueldmq | lbragstad: kk just confirming, thanks | 18:05 |
| stevemar | samueldmq: yes. all specs must be approved by EOW next week | 18:05 |
| * samueldmq nods | 18:06 | |
| stevemar | otherwise they get the boot | 18:06 |
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| * stevemar waits for more questions | 18:06 | |
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| ayoung | Trust Scope Extensions should not go forward. It is a good idea, but untenable as written. It can't be Trust based, needs to be at the token itself... | 18:06 |
| ayoung | Extend user API to support federated attributes looks pretty good | 18:07 |
| samueldmq | the ones I am worried the most are the trust ones | 18:07 |
| samueldmq | ayoung: ^ | 18:07 |
| ayoung | samueldmq, Spec: Trust Scope Extensions [jgrassler] | 18:07 |
| ayoung | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/396331/ you mean? | 18:07 |
| samueldmq | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/396331/ | 18:07 |
| samueldmq | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/396634/ | 18:07 |
| stevemar | ayoung: there are two trust ones | 18:08 |
| ayoung | samueldmq, yeah, I had a long talk with jgrassler this morning. My position is unchanged | 18:08 |
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| stevemar | ayoung: theres also "lightweight" trusts: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/396634/ | 18:08 |
| ayoung | stevemar, that is oauth | 18:08 |
| samueldmq | ayoung: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/396331/ is solved with our OATH in your opinion? | 18:09 |
| ayoung | we can do those today but should merge trusts and oauth | 18:09 |
| ayoung | samueldmq, no the other one is | 18:09 |
| ayoung | 396634/ is oauth | 18:09 |
| samueldmq | ayoung: ok, and what about "Added trust-scope-extensions" | 18:09 |
| stevemar | samueldmq: that one also has negative feedback | 18:10 |
| stevemar | anyway, some specs are close, others are not. keep reviewing them | 18:10 |
| * samueldmq nods | 18:10 | |
| stevemar | moving along | 18:11 |
| samueldmq | stevemar: we might want to have a deeper discussion in next meeting on those that haven't been merged by that time | 18:11 |
| samueldmq | stevemar: ++ | 18:11 |
| stevemar | samueldmq: yep | 18:11 |
| stevemar | #topic Introduce Annapoornima Koppad [annakoppad] | 18:11 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Introduce Annapoornima Koppad [annakoppad] (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:11 | |
| stevemar | raildo, rodrigods ^ | 18:11 |
| raildo | stevebaker, thanks | 18:12 |
| ayoung | she have an irc nick? | 18:12 |
| rodrigods | so... welcome annakoppad_ | 18:12 |
| raildo | stevemar, * | 18:12 |
| ayoung | ah.. | 18:12 |
| chrisplo | are you saing 396634 we're calling OAUTH instead of calling it trust something? | 18:12 |
| ayoung | welcome | 18:12 |
| annakoppad_ | Thanks, raildo! | 18:12 |
| ayoung | chrisplo, it is already implemented | 18:12 |
| lbragstad | annakoppad_ o/ | 18:12 |
| ayoung | has been for years | 18:12 |
| rodrigods | she is our new outreachy intern, her project starts today! | 18:12 |
| samueldmq | ayoung: chrisplo let's continue that in -keystone, we've changed topic already. thanks | 18:12 |
| rodrigods | the idea is to add a new job to our CI to handle LDAP scenarios | 18:13 |
| stevemar | welcome annakoppad_ | 18:13 |
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| samueldmq | that's great! | 18:13 |
| raildo | rodrigods, ++ she will be working with us (at least) march 6 :) | 18:13 |
| annakoppad_ | Thanks! stevemar! | 18:13 |
| samueldmq | raildo and rodrigods as mentors ? | 18:13 |
| rodrigods | yep | 18:13 |
| stevemar | samueldmq: yep! | 18:13 |
| raildo | samueldmq, yes | 18:13 |
| samueldmq | annakoppad_: welcome aboard! | 18:13 |
| stevemar | annakoppad_: good choice of mentors :) | 18:13 |
| annakoppad_ | hopefully, more as well, as I do not intend to stop coding ever at all! | 18:13 |
| samueldmq | nice nice, good to see it continuing, congrats on the initiative rodrigods and raildo | 18:13 |
| stevemar | annakoppad_: :D | 18:13 |
| annakoppad_ | at raildo! rodrigods | 18:13 |
| rodrigods | samueldmq, ++ | 18:14 |
| raildo | samueldmq, your welcome. | 18:14 |
| annakoppad_ | thanks stevemar and samueldmq | 18:14 |
| rodrigods | so... her project is to help keystone, but involves lots of devstack, project-config, etc | 18:14 |
| dstanek | annakoppad_: welcome | 18:14 |
| annakoppad_ | hello dstanek! | 18:14 |
| stevemar | annakoppad_: looking forward to reviewing your patches, please don't be shy and ask questions in #openstack-keystone if you need a hand | 18:14 |
| annakoppad_ | yes stevemar! | 18:14 |
| rodrigods | stevemar, ++ | 18:15 |
| stevemar | thanks rodrigods and raildo for doing this | 18:15 |
| stevemar | morgan: you around? | 18:15 |
| raildo | annakoppad_, so, any doubts, you can ask for help in the #openstack-keystone, and I know that you will find someone to help :) | 18:15 |
| raildo | stevemar, no problem :) | 18:15 |
| annakoppad_ | great, raildo! | 18:15 |
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| stevemar | i don't think morgan is around, so we can skip the next topic, taskmanager in keystoneauth | 18:16 |
| stevemar | plus, the work is well under way in https://review.openstack.org/#/c/362473/ | 18:16 |
| rodrigods | think it is not only my opinion that having the LDAP job is a great advance for us :) | 18:16 |
| ayoung | annakoppad_, BTW, it turns out the devstack LDAP code is not currently working | 18:16 |
| ayoung | just tried it last week... | 18:16 |
| stevemar | ayoung: yeah, its bit rotted a bunch | 18:16 |
| annakoppad_ | I was trying out running the devstack..will try it a little bit | 18:17 |
| raildo | ayoung, out first step will be fix it | 18:17 |
| raildo | our* | 18:17 |
| ayoung | raildo, we can discuss. Lets set up a time to talk it through | 18:17 |
| stevemar | ayoung: i have no doubt that raildo and rodrigods have a plan ;) | 18:17 |
| raildo | ayoung, ++ | 18:17 |
| annakoppad_ | stevemar, and ayoung, never mind, I will help raildo and rodrigods fix whatever is broken | 18:17 |
| stevemar | that works too | 18:17 |
| ayoung | stevemar, I['ve been talking with them about it | 18:17 |
| stevemar | ayoung: cool cool | 18:18 |
| stevemar | time for our super fun topic | 18:18 |
| stevemar | #topic Custom project IDs | 18:18 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Custom project IDs (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:18 | |
| ayoung | RBAC? | 18:18 |
| ayoung | stevemar, AH | 18:18 |
| ayoung | ok so I -2 that | 18:18 |
| ayoung | and here is why | 18:18 |
| stevemar | agrebennikov, ayoung, but on your boxing gloves | 18:18 |
| ayoung | stevemar, so the argument that agrebennikov gave me is he is trying to do multi site | 18:18 |
| ayoung | and syncing stuff at the database layer (Galera) puts a lot of load on him | 18:19 |
| rodrigods | isn't the intent behind shadow mapping to fix that? | 18:19 |
| ayoung | rodrigods, not quite | 18:19 |
| ayoung | let me go on | 18:19 |
| agrebennikov | and I was very surprizrd to get -2 on the nexd day after we agreed on everything telling the truth | 18:19 |
| samueldmq | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/403866/ | 18:19 |
| stevemar | theres a good mailing list thread going on: http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2016-December/108466.html | 18:19 |
| ayoung | agrebennikov, that was because we did not think it through | 18:19 |
| ayoung | what you are proposing is going to put some very had to debug errors into the system | 18:19 |
| ayoung | we have an assumption right now that a token has a single project ID in it | 18:20 |
| ayoung | and from that project ID, we deduce the set of roles in a token | 18:20 |
| ayoung | now, ignoring all the work that everyone else is doing around this, lets thinkg that through | 18:20 |
| ayoung | say we have 2 sites | 18:20 |
| ayoung | and we add a project to one, and give the user some role assignemtnes there | 18:20 |
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| ayoung | then, we used this approach to create the project on the second site | 18:20 |
| cbits | ayoung- I would like to propose a differnt use case. Where in I would have many independent keystones but many central reporting, finance and billing apps that only understand one project_Id I also believe that doing this in the DB would be akin to a hack and the API can and IMHO should support it. Also if we do DB replication and that gets out of sync the user experance is quite horable as well. ;) | 18:21 |
| knikolla | o/ (i'm late) | 18:21 |
| ayoung | and...we say that tokens issued at one site are valid at the other | 18:21 |
| ayoung | which we could do via fernet | 18:21 |
| ayoung | but...we screwed up on the second site | 18:21 |
| ayoung | and gave the user a different set of roles | 18:21 |
| ayoung | now, the token validation response will depend on which keystone you go to | 18:21 |
| ayoung | but the tokens will be valid at all service endpoints | 18:21 |
| lbragstad | ayoung that's was a big part of breton's concern | 18:22 |
| ayoung | lbragstad, oh, we totally have breton to thank for seeing this issue | 18:22 |
| stevemar | lbragstad: ayoung won't you end up with those error if you choose to create projects with id? | 18:22 |
| dstanek | cbits: so you're saying that you trust hand rolled replication over DB replication? | 18:22 |
| ayoung | what agrebennikov is asking for (and is reasonable) is a way to sync multiple Keystones. But it is a Hard problem | 18:22 |
| ayoung | NP-Hard | 18:22 |
| lbragstad | stevemar well - you can.. it depends on how you create the role assignments in each site | 18:23 |
| agrebennikov | so with this just remove the "one token for all" usecase | 18:23 |
| breton | i still don't see why federation is not an option | 18:23 |
| agrebennikov | keys are different | 18:23 |
| rodrigods | breton, ++ | 18:23 |
| cbits | dstanek: I trust the orchestration layer I will put in place to make this work over DB replication | 18:23 |
| agrebennikov | tokens are only valid in one region | 18:23 |
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| cbits | db replacation to 30 sites is a problem | 18:23 |
| cbits | I may only need to place a project in 4 of the 30 | 18:23 |
| ayoung | agrebennikov, remove the project ID from the equasion and you have the same solution: make sure everything matches between two keystone | 18:23 |
| ayoung | s | 18:23 |
| breton | tokens are meant to be valid only inside a single keystone installation | 18:24 |
| ayoung | you must restrict yourself to using only names, no ids, when requesting tokens | 18:24 |
| cbits | In my use case we are talking about > 30 regaions | 18:24 |
| cbits | Names always change. thats why we love id's | 18:24 |
| ayoung | cbits, then you need IDS, and complete replication forthe entire data store | 18:25 |
| dstanek | cbits: imo partial replication makes it worse. hard to track down bugs and an increased chance of running into collisions | 18:25 |
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| agrebennikov | breton, I keep struggling to understand how federation helps over here.... | 18:26 |
| cbits | If my orchestration creates the ID's and we have basic validation at the API point whow wil these independent keystones colide? | 18:26 |
| agrebennikov | but lets move it aside, I'll ask you in person | 18:26 |
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| ayoung | cbits, and then when someone makes a change at one site outside of your orchestration? | 18:26 |
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| lbragstad | agrebennikov if we're going to talk about federation why no do it here, in the open? | 18:26 |
| lbragstad | not* | 18:26 |
| stevemar | i say we make this a config option disabled by default, and let agrebennikov try it out, if it blows up we deprecate and remove the option -- document the limitations and state it's experimental | 18:26 |
| cbits | the orchestration will have the admin creds. | 18:27 |
| ayoung | cbits, and only the admin? | 18:27 |
| ayoung | I mean, and only the orchestration? | 18:27 |
| ayoung | no other admins? | 18:27 |
| cbits | yes | 18:27 |
| dstanek | stevemar: the problem for me is that it will blow up over time not immediately | 18:27 |
| ayoung | cbits, then make your databse read only on the regions and do it at the replication level | 18:27 |
| cbits | because in a complex system not only do we need to create the project but we need to also bind it to internal budjets, cmdb, etc | 18:27 |
| ayoung | stevemar, its a nightmare | 18:28 |
| dstanek | cbits: how do you keep track of used ids and names? | 18:28 |
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| cbits | AD Grups are used. | 18:28 |
| cbits | no UID's in openstack. | 18:28 |
| cbits | just groups | 18:28 |
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| stevemar | cbits: and that is replicated (not at the API layer) | 18:28 |
| stevemar | theres a good argument between trying to replicate and sync at the various layers | 18:28 |
| cbits | no, If say project X needs access to site 1, 2, and 3 we will simply add the project and role (with ad group there) Ad is centeralized in the company | 18:29 |
| stevemar | mfisch had a nice reply here: http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2016-December/108499.html | 18:29 |
| dstanek | agrebennikov: federation won't completely help until shadow mapping exists | 18:29 |
| cbits | DB replication works well with 3 or 4 sites. it gets really nasty when you have lots of sites. | 18:30 |
| ayoung | stevemar, this is one of the sites that was using Assignment in LDAP | 18:30 |
| breton | dstanek: yes it will | 18:30 |
| cbits | We only use AD for auth and autz | 18:30 |
| agrebennikov | even that... federation is for something else. I don't see any application of federation in my usecase | 18:30 |
| cbits | user / password and group membership | 18:30 |
| dstanek | breton: there's still no way to create projects right? | 18:30 |
| agrebennikov | neither projects nor groups | 18:30 |
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| agrebennikov | if I'm not mistaken | 18:30 |
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| ayoung | dstanek, I think what he's saying is they want to have the same kind of behavior with LDAP as you are proposing via Federation: | 18:31 |
| dstanek | agrebennikov: federation is how separate keystone installations collaborate | 18:31 |
| cbits | I would love to have hte project_ids be unique per site. But I live in a wold where the cloud is intergrated with many systems. That does not chage over night. | 18:31 |
| ayoung | first time you hit a Keystone, create the resources there. But they want to make sure the resources match multi-site | 18:31 |
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| breton | dstanek: projects will be created the same way agrebennikov is going to do it now. He suggests to create 10 projects, each in every location | 18:31 |
| dstanek | ayoung: isn't that the goal of shadow mapping? | 18:31 |
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| breton | dstanek: just with static id | 18:31 |
| cbits | Just the project_id needs to be the same so reporting and other systems can see it as one thing. | 18:31 |
| ayoung | dstanek, is that sufficient, though? It is also the "create the assignment on the fly" part | 18:32 |
| cbits | not because its cool. but because other systems that will use that data and intergrations are not ready for project_id[] | 18:32 |
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| breton | dstanek: and then manually create assignments in each location | 18:32 |
| ayoung | cbits, what you are saying, I think, is you need a way to correlate projects between multiple deployments? | 18:32 |
| breton | dstanek: which can already be done with federation, but cleaner and more predictable | 18:32 |
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| samueldmq | ayoung: ++ | 18:33 |
| stevemar | agrebennikov: cbits have you guys tried this already? do you have results? can you use a custom interface? | 18:33 |
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| ayoung | they also tried K2K and found it too slow | 18:33 |
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| samueldmq | ayoung: optimize it ? | 18:33 |
| ayoung | Multi-site is going to be a real issue | 18:33 |
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| cbits | yes for many products, OpenBook, ceilometer, custom CMDB, etc. | 18:34 |
| ayoung | samueldmq, perhaps. | 18:34 |
| breton | how slow is too slow? | 18:34 |
| ayoung | breton, "16 times" was the agrebennikov quote | 18:34 |
| cbits | I have been working with agrebennikov: to find a good way to do this. That is why I like his patch | 18:34 |
| dstanek | ayoung: the assignments should also be part of that or automatically creating a project is useless | 18:34 |
| ayoung | but..again, not a complete solution anyway | 18:34 |
| ayoung | cbits, it seems to me that what you | 18:34 |
| dstanek | 16x for obtaining the initial token? | 18:35 |
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| ayoung | need is a way to syncronize the remote sites and perform "eventually consistent" semantics | 18:35 |
| ayoung | dstanek, ++ | 18:35 |
| samueldmq | wow | 18:35 |
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| agrebennikov | please, lets remove my emotional paragraph from the topic please :/ | 18:35 |
| ayoung | IE. I usually work with region A but today I am working with region B and I need everything over there to mirror Region A for me | 18:35 |
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| samueldmq | dstanek: I agree with you. user_id must be the same too. assignments must be the same too. | 18:36 |
| stevemar | agrebennikov: if you're referring to the etherpad, you can edit that. | 18:36 |
| ayoung | cbits, are new projects and assignments only every going to be written via your orchestration tool and in a centralized location, and then you need to sync them down to the remote Keystones? | 18:37 |
| agrebennikov | I mean 16x | 18:37 |
| cbits | ayoung: yes | 18:37 |
| stevemar | agrebennikov: cbits what's preventing you from creating a custom interface for create_project? | 18:37 |
| ayoung | cbits, ok...so it sounds like what you need is along these lines: | 18:37 |
| ayoung | 1. disallow local writes on a certain set of tables: | 18:38 |
| ayoung | projects, assignements, to start | 18:38 |
| stevemar | i can't see this landing upstream given the concerns, it's way too contentious. but i don't want to stop you from attempting it yourself | 18:38 |
| stevemar | we keep going around in circles | 18:38 |
| lbragstad | agrebennikov did you experience a 16x performance degradation in your testing? | 18:38 |
| ayoung | 2. push data from a central orchestration hub (say a keystone server, but that is limited to just accessfrom the orchestration engine) down to the remote keystones for that data | 18:39 |
| ayoung | AD is external and used for authN | 18:39 |
| dstanek | stevemar: agreed... it would be nice to come back with some experience on this being deployed and discuss again in the future | 18:39 |
| samueldmq | stevemar: is the ML discussion still flowing ? | 18:39 |
| lbragstad | samueldmq yeah | 18:39 |
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| ayoung | With the exception of Token data (which now should be ephemeral) I think you can get away with a completely read-only Keystone everywhere but in the auth Hub | 18:39 |
| ayoung | will not allow for self service of anything, though | 18:39 |
| dstanek | agrebennikov: how often did you need to do the operation that took 16x? | 18:40 |
| samueldmq | lbragstad: stevemar so perhaps that's the right way to continue the discussion | 18:40 |
| cbits | We can patch the code, thats easy. however it seems that an optional pram that is validated seems resonable. | 18:40 |
| ayoung | dstanek, he was just saying K2K took a lot longer than getting a token | 18:40 |
| ayoung | and I don't think it solves his needs anyway | 18:40 |
| agrebennikov | I did not of course. But keeping in mind you always have to make inter-services calls between different geo locations, and since I tried it before with one of the external auth system ldap/federation manner I can say for sure that it's way slower | 18:40 |
| lbragstad | agrebennikov so 16x is arbirtrary | 18:40 |
| stevemar | cbits: unfortunately not :( | 18:41 |
| stevemar | cbits: once we open up the possibility, others will start using it | 18:41 |
| cbits | yes, I get where you are coming from. | 18:41 |
| agrebennikov | yes sir. also another usecase which I described yesterday and nobody pointed an attention - replicated images should be always replicated across zoned into the same projectIDs | 18:41 |
| cbits | I was hoping to solve my use case and not carry a patch. | 18:41 |
| agrebennikov | and this is not a problem of glance | 18:41 |
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| dstanek | ayoung: yeah, i was just trying to get a handle on how slow it actually was | 18:41 |
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| stevemar | cbits: i think this is one of the few instances where i'd advocate that you folks try it out first and pass along any results you come up with | 18:42 |
| ayoung | agrebennikov, I really think you need to do this at the database level. Sorry. There is just too much of a data integrity problem otherwise. It is more than just projects. | 18:42 |
| samueldmq | ayoung: + | 18:43 |
| dstanek | agrebennikov: i don't know anything about glance, but from the thread i thought that the image ids were different | 18:43 |
| lbragstad | i meant to follow up with sigmavirus on that | 18:43 |
| agrebennikov | nope. replicator needs to make sure that whenever the image appears in regionA - it moves it to the regionB. Obviously it may only rely on the project | 18:44 |
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| ayoung | OK...I don't think we are moving ahead with this one. Sorry folks. | 18:44 |
| agrebennikov | dstanek, and obviously not the project name | 18:44 |
| agrebennikov | ayoung, got for it.... :( | 18:45 |
| stevemar | yeah, we're just going around in circles at this point | 18:45 |
| dstanek | agrebennikov: but you're not comparing apples to apples. if they don't guarantee the ID and we are saying we can't then you already have that ability | 18:45 |
| stevemar | :\ | 18:45 |
| samueldmq | agreed, and still have 3 topics :( | 18:45 |
| cbits | Thanks for your help. | 18:45 |
| samueldmq | think it's better to continue on the ML | 18:45 |
| samueldmq | and review | 18:45 |
| stevemar | sorry agrebennikov and cbits | 18:45 |
| agrebennikov | for sure we will. Thanks everyone | 18:45 |
| samueldmq | agrebennikov: cbits thanks | 18:46 |
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| ayoung | Last up ... RBAC | 18:46 |
| stevemar | ayoung: lol, thats not even on the agenda :P | 18:46 |
| ayoung | stevemar, yes it is | 18:46 |
| samueldmq | ehehe | 18:46 |
| ayoung | oh..last weeks | 18:46 |
| stevemar | ayoung: ^_^ | 18:46 |
| samueldmq | it's on last week's agenda | 18:47 |
| ayoung | quick vote on whether we think it can go in? RBAC in MIddleware [ayoung] | 18:47 |
| ayoung | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/391624/ | 18:47 |
| ayoung | since we are talking specs | 18:47 |
| lbragstad | i need to look at the latest revision | 18:47 |
| stevemar | i haven't looked into it enough, abstaining | 18:47 |
| ayoung | If the group opinion is to support it, I'll push. If not, I'll back off. | 18:47 |
| ayoung | biggest difference is naming | 18:47 |
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| ayoung | instead of URL_PAttern, calling the main entity: access_rule | 18:48 |
| samueldmq | making role checks in middleware is technically possible and I like it | 18:48 |
| ayoung | also added in a default scheme | 18:48 |
| samueldmq | not sure about the steps to get there. like splitting the policy etc | 18:49 |
| ayoung | { pattern: "ANY", verb: "ANY" role: "<role>"} | 18:49 |
| samueldmq | ayoung: I also owe you a review | 18:49 |
| ayoung | times running out before spec freeze. I think this moves us ahead a lot. | 18:49 |
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| ayoung | It is based on, quite simply, years of discussions, trial, and feedback | 18:49 |
| stevemar | ayoung: so you'll have a bunch of predefined responses for URL patterns ? | 18:49 |
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| ayoung | stevemar, I don't quite understand the question | 18:50 |
| ayoung | responses? | 18:50 |
| lbragstad | 10 minute mark | 18:50 |
| stevemar | ayoung: i'll talk to you about it after the meeting | 18:50 |
| ayoung | we can figure out what the URL patterns them selves are from the api-regs | 18:50 |
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| ayoung | refs | 18:50 |
| ayoung | ok... | 18:50 |
| ayoung | I'll stick around. surrendering the conch | 18:51 |
| samueldmq | ayoung: does it define a brand new syntax for the new RBAC-only policy for the middleware ? | 18:51 |
| samueldmq | ok, later on -keystone | 18:51 |
| stevemar | ayoung: it looks decent though, and isolated | 18:51 |
| ayoung | yes...like the routes in keuystone: 'pattern': '/v2/images/{image_id}/reactivate', | 18:51 |
| stevemar | ayoung: i'm just looking for stuff that doesn't touch critical paths at this point | 18:51 |
| ayoung | we can default just about everything to "Member" with no loss of security, too | 18:52 |
| stevemar | spilla: around? | 18:52 |
| spilla | yup | 18:52 |
| stevemar | ayoung: switching to spilla's topic | 18:52 |
| stevemar | gotta give the new folks the floor! | 18:53 |
| stevemar | #topic PCI-DSS Query Password Expired Users | 18:53 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "PCI-DSS Query Password Expired Users (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:53 | |
| stevemar | spilla: sounds like you're asking advice on an implementation detail | 18:53 |
| spilla | correct | 18:53 |
| rderose | I like /v3/users?password_expires_at=gt:{timestamp}, which is what was in the spec and is consistent with the guidelines: | 18:53 |
| rderose | http://specs.openstack.org/openstack/api-wg/guidelines/pagination_filter_sort.html#filtering | 18:53 |
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| ayoung | That will work | 18:54 |
| ayoung | any driving reason not to do it? | 18:54 |
| stevemar | rderose: well the gt and lt stuff is more for quantity i think? | 18:54 |
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| samueldmq | I am not sure filtering at an exact timestamp is useful for anyone | 18:54 |
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| samueldmq | /v3/users?password_expires_at={timestamp} | 18:55 |
| stevemar | /users?pasword_expires_after={some time stamp} seems a bit clearer | 18:55 |
| ayoung | ah... | 18:55 |
| spilla | the reason I went with /v3/users?password_expires_before={timestamp} was to make it easier to under stand if you start chaining them, or even in general | 18:55 |
| spilla | but that doesn't make it more right or wrong | 18:55 |
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| ayoung | at the API level, let us implement the set of them | 18:56 |
| spilla | wanted some input to head the best direction | 18:56 |
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| ayoung | if there is a rationale for each, we can give the choice | 18:56 |
| samueldmq | and we can combine them, right ? with ?password_expires_before={timestamp1}&password_expires_after={timestamp0} | 18:56 |
| ayoung | ++ | 18:56 |
| stevemar | that makes sense | 18:56 |
| ayoung | expires AT seems low value, but if there is a need for it, include it as well | 18:56 |
| spilla | ayoung ++ both is always an option | 18:57 |
| samueldmq | again, making a perfect match ?password_expires={timestamp} does not make sense to me | 18:57 |
| stevemar | this reminds me of http://developer.openstack.org/api-ref/compute/?expanded=list-servers-detailed-detail#list-servers-detailed | 18:57 |
| dstanek | the gt: is what the api-wg is recommenting | 18:57 |
| samueldmq | not sure if anyone agree with me on that | 18:57 |
| rderose | I just think lt gt solves it and it's consistent with other filtering | 18:57 |
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| stevemar | dstanek: but that's more for quantities | 18:57 |
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| dstanek | stevemar: no according to their examples | 18:57 |
| ayoung | spilla, that enough to go on? | 18:57 |
| rderose | stevemar: no | 18:57 |
| dstanek | "GET /app/items?finished_at=ge:15:30&finished_at=lt:16:00" | 18:57 |
| rderose | dstanek: ++ | 18:58 |
| stevemar | oh did i miss that? | 18:58 |
| dstanek | http://specs.openstack.org/openstack/api-wg/guidelines/pagination_filter_sort.html#time-based-filtering-queries | 18:58 |
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| lbragstad | dstanek i like that | 18:58 |
| stevemar | oh there it is: GET /app/items?finished_at=ge:15:30&finished_at=lt:16:00 | 18:58 |
| dstanek | i assume dates would be handled the same way, but that's not explicit | 18:59 |
| stevemar | spilla: there's your answer ^ | 18:59 |
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| spilla | so gt lt seems to be it | 18:59 |
| stevemar | yessir | 18:59 |
| stevemar | wrapping up! | 18:59 |
| stevemar | #endmeeting | 18:59 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 18:59 | |
| spilla | ty all! | 18:59 |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Dec 6 18:59:30 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 18:59 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2016/keystone.2016-12-06-18.00.html | 18:59 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2016/keystone.2016-12-06-18.00.txt | 18:59 |
| samueldmq | spilla: http://specs.openstack.org/openstack/api-wg/guidelines/pagination_filter_sort.html#time-based-filtering-queries | 18:59 |
| stevemar | thanks for coming everyone | 18:59 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2016/keystone.2016-12-06-18.00.log.html | 18:59 |
| * stevemar needs coffee | 18:59 | |
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| fungi | infra team, assemble! | 19:00 |
| SotK | o/ | 19:00 |
| clarkb | its like we are power rangers | 19:00 |
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| fungi | this week's topics proposed by jeblair and clarkb | 19:00 |
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| * jlvillal lurks in the corner... | 19:00 | |
| zaro | o/ | 19:00 |
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| ianw | morning! | 19:01 |
| AJaeger | evening! | 19:01 |
| pabelanger | rawr | 19:01 |
| olaph | o/ | 19:01 |
| zara_the_lemur__ | o/ | 19:01 |
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| jhesketh | Morning | 19:02 |
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| fungi | #startmeeting infra | 19:03 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Dec 6 19:03:33 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is fungi. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 19:03 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 19:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:03 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'infra' | 19:03 |
| *** sambetts is now known as sambetts|afk | 19:03 | |
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| fungi | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/InfraTeamMeeting#Agenda_for_next_meeting | 19:03 |
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| fungi | #topic Announcements | 19:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Announcements (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:03 | |
| jlvillal | o/ | 19:03 |
| fungi | #info REMINDER: If you want to come hack on Infra things at the PTG a couple months from now in Atlanta, don't forget to sign up! | 19:03 |
| fungi | #link https://pikeptg.eventbrite.com/ | 19:04 |
| fungi | #link http://www.openstack.org/ptg | 19:04 |
| fungi | i'm told there is plenty of travel assistance available too--if you need it don't be embarassed to ask for it | 19:04 |
| fungi | #link http://www.openstack.org/ptg#tab_travel | 19:04 |
| fungi | as always, feel free to hit me up with announcements you want included in future meetings | 19:04 |
| fungi | #topic Actions from last meeting | 19:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Actions from last meeting (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:04 | |
| fungi | #link http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2016/infra.2016-11-29-19.03.html | 19:04 |
| fungi | fungi send summit session summary to infra ml | 19:04 |
| fungi | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2016-December/108536.html Ocata Summit Infra Sessions Recap | 19:05 |
| fungi | FINALLY! | 19:05 |
| zara_the_lemur__ | \o/ | 19:05 |
| fungi | and reply to that with any corrections/additions, of course | 19:05 |
| fungi | pabelanger add openstackci::zuul_launcher puppet class | 19:05 |
| fungi | do we have a change for that yet? | 19:05 |
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| pabelanger | sadly no | 19:06 |
| pabelanger | on my plate to do | 19:06 |
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| fungi | okay, cool--thanks! | 19:06 |
| pabelanger | I'll make time this week to finish it up | 19:06 |
| fungi | #action pabelanger add openstackci::zuul_launcher puppet class | 19:06 |
| fungi | and that's it for the action items from last week, i think | 19:06 |
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| fungi | #topic Specs approval: PROPOSED Zuul v3: use Zookeeper for Nodepool-Zuul protocol (jeblair) | 19:07 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Specs approval: PROPOSED Zuul v3: use Zookeeper for Nodepool-Zuul protocol (jeblair) (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:07 | |
| jeblair | i think this is ready | 19:07 |
| fungi | #link https://review.openstack.org/305506 Zuul v3: use Zookeeper for Nodepool-Zuul protocol | 19:08 |
| jeblair | it's gone through some revision and should be fairly well vetted now | 19:08 |
| fungi | #info Council voting is open on the "Zuul v3: use Zookeeper for Nodepool-Zuul protocol" change until 19:00 UTC on Thursday, December 8. | 19:08 |
| jeblair | jhesketh caught some typos, i suggest we vote on this version and i'll fix in a followup | 19:08 |
| fungi | sounds good to me | 19:08 |
| jhesketh | +1 | 19:08 |
| jeblair | and incidentally, i think we'll be about ready to start on this shortly after it lands | 19:09 |
| fungi | great timing | 19:09 |
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| jhesketh | Awesome :-) | 19:10 |
| jeblair | [eot from me] | 19:11 |
| fungi | thanks jeblair | 19:11 |
| fungi | anybody else have any concerns before we move on? | 19:12 |
| fungi | #topic Priority Efforts: Nodepool: Use Zookeeper for Workers (jeblair) | 19:12 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Priority Efforts: Nodepool: Use Zookeeper for Workers (jeblair) (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:12 | |
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| fungi | talked about this in the zuul meeting yesterday, right? | 19:13 |
| jeblair | yes -- | 19:13 |
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| jeblair | #link zk blockers from zuul meeting http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/zuul/2016/zuul.2016-12-05-22.02.html | 19:13 |
| jeblair | if you look at the action items there, we identified some things that we want to see happen before we think we're ready to start using the new zk nodepool builder in production | 19:14 |
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| jeblair | it's a pretty short and simple list | 19:14 |
| jeblair | so there's a good chance we'll have it done late this week, early next week | 19:14 |
| pabelanger | nb02.o.o is already online, thanks to Shrews help | 19:15 |
| jeblair | when that's accomplished, i'd like to switch nodepool.o.o to use the zuulv3 branch (which will cause the nodepoold there to use the builds from the zk builder) | 19:15 |
| jeblair | and if that goes well, merge feature/zuulv3 into master shortly thereafter | 19:15 |
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| jeblair | and switch all the nodepool hosts back to running master | 19:15 |
| fungi | review focus on project:openstack-infra/nodepool branch:feature/zuulv3 is appreciated to get this in place in a timely fashion? | 19:16 |
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| jeblair | does that sound good to folks? any concerns? additional blockers we should add to the punch list? | 19:16 |
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| clarkb | are there no changes on master that we need in v3 first? eg should the merge come first? | 19:16 |
| jeblair | fungi: yep | 19:16 |
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| jeblair | clarkb: jhesketh merged master into v3 recently | 19:16 |
| jeblair | so i think we're set | 19:17 |
| clarkb | ah ok | 19:17 |
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| jeblair | we could merge first, but this lets us quickly revert without making a mess of the git tree :) | 19:17 |
| clarkb | ya | 19:17 |
| fungi | looks like maybe there's been one change on master since then? | 19:17 |
| jhesketh | If it's shifted I can merge into v3 again | 19:17 |
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| fungi | Merge "Have an ending line-feed on the generated id_rsa.pub file" is a day newer | 19:18 |
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| * jlvillal spots his commit | 19:18 | |
| jeblair | jhesketh: if you could do another merge, that would be swell. should be easy. :) | 19:18 |
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| clarkb | fungi: don't think that one affects us | 19:18 |
| clarkb | but getting up to syncage would be good | 19:19 |
| fungi | yeah, it was https://review.openstack.org/383496 | 19:19 |
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| jhesketh | Yep. Is it worth waiting until we're close to deploy v3 though | 19:19 |
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| fungi | agreed, that's more just let's make sure it doesn't get lost/conflict | 19:19 |
| mordred | o/ | 19:19 |
| jeblair | jhesketh: i think we're pretty close; i say we do it now, and hopefully master won't move too much in the next week or two. | 19:20 |
| fungi | i think that's a fine plan | 19:20 |
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| jhesketh | Okay | 19:20 |
| fungi | #agreed We're on track to switch to ZK-based nodepool builders in roughly a week's time. | 19:21 |
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| fungi | it's a sweet spot between holidays, so there's hopefully a fair number of people around to work out any kinks but not such high volume of activity that the impact will be dreadful should something go sideways | 19:22 |
| mordred | ++ | 19:22 |
| jeblair | yeah, and there should only be a momentary outage when we restart nodepoold | 19:22 |
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| dhellmann | that's all coming before the 2nd milestone? | 19:23 |
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| Shrews | why not create a stable-2.5 branch, just in case? | 19:23 |
| fungi | dhellmann: yeah, we should shoot to not have this impact your... thursday activities next week? | 19:24 |
| dhellmann | the milestone is on the 15th, so next week should be fine | 19:24 |
| fungi | dhellmann: any specific days we need to blacklist for disruptive changes? | 19:24 |
| dhellmann | wait, what's today? | 19:24 |
| dhellmann | yeah, as long as it's before thursday it should be ok | 19:24 |
| fungi | today's the 6th | 19:24 |
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| dhellmann | yeah, my calendar was on the wrong page :-) | 19:25 |
| jeblair | Shrews: well, it would be a stable 0.0 branch if we did. and i don't believe we intend to support it. we made a tag for the last version of nodepool people should use if they want to avoid zk. | 19:25 |
| dhellmann | so avoiding thursday and friday would be good, but it sounds like that's the plan | 19:25 |
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| jeblair | dhellmann: yeah, i'm thinking *this* thursday or friday, or if not, early next week. | 19:25 |
| dhellmann | sounds good | 19:26 |
| fungi | #info Coordinate any potential disruptions late next week with the Release team. | 19:26 |
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| clarkb | this week si fine right? | 19:26 |
| fungi | yeah, it's a dead week on https://releases.openstack.org/ocata/schedule.html | 19:26 |
| clarkb | pretty sure when we decided to do the xenial stuff this week it was to avoid release things | 19:26 |
| clarkb | kk | 19:26 |
| jeblair | once we merge v3 into master, i think we should issue another release and suggest early adopters may want to try using it along with us. | 19:26 |
| mordred | jeblair: ++ | 19:26 |
| dhellmann | yeah, mainly just trying to avoid changes *on* deadline days, so it sounds like your plans are fine | 19:26 |
| fungi | thanks for jumping in dhellmann! | 19:27 |
| * dhellmann goes back to lurking | 19:27 | |
| fungi | your constant lurkiness is always appreciated | 19:27 |
| jeblair | everyone should lurk so well | 19:27 |
| fungi | i definitely want to make sure we keep release activity disruptions to a minimum, in particular | 19:28 |
| fungi | there are even fewer of them than there are of us | 19:28 |
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| fungi | okay, so additional release. minor bump, or major prerelease? | 19:29 |
| clarkb | it would have to be major prerelase I think if we wanted to semver right? | 19:29 |
| clarkb | these changes aren't entirely backward compatible | 19:29 |
| fungi | well, we're at a 0.x release still | 19:30 |
| clarkb | (though for the most part your old config will work with new stuff with small changes | 19:30 |
| mordred | clarkb: yes - but we've never released a supported version of nodepool | 19:30 |
| clarkb | ah | 19:30 |
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| jeblair | well, depending on how you read this with semver, it might actually could be a micro, because it is backwards compatibleish | 19:30 |
| fungi | so 0.4.0 would be reasonable, but i could also get behind 1.0.0.0b1 | 19:30 |
| fungi | i guess depends on how ish the ish part is | 19:31 |
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| clarkb | the ish part is you need new config for zk and need to have a zk server | 19:31 |
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| clarkb | everything else is compat I think | 19:31 |
| fungi | i'm assuming nodepool 1.0.0 is targeted roughly coincident with zuul 3.0.0 | 19:31 |
| mordred | yah. | 19:31 |
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| jeblair | at any rate, i lean toward 0.4.0 with a slightly generous interpretation of semver | 19:32 |
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| fungi | i think we agreed to pre-announce any nodepool backward incompatibilities on the infra ml in advance too? or was nibalizer satisfied if we just told people to pin to something a while back? | 19:33 |
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| fungi | i mean, i know we pretty thoroughly announced the zk addition was in the pipeline | 19:33 |
| clarkb | ya I think we told people to pin. maybe double check we didn't say pin to <1.0 | 19:33 |
| clarkb | because that could influence this version picking | 19:33 |
| jeblair | i'm still happy to pre-announce both the merge and the release. | 19:33 |
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| jeblair | good opportunity to let people know what's happening, and in the case of the release, let people know how to start using it | 19:34 |
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| jeblair | (but both of those will happen after the v3 branch is in prod, so we have some time) | 19:35 |
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| fungi | awesome | 19:35 |
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| fungi | okay, anything else to discuss right now on the road toward nodepool 1.x? | 19:36 |
| jeblair | nope | 19:37 |
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| fungi | thanks jeblair! | 19:37 |
| fungi | #topic Priority Efforts: Newton testing on Xenial (clarkb) | 19:37 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Priority Efforts: Newton testing on Xenial (clarkb) (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:37 | |
| clarkb | So this is mostly a heads up that we are moving ahead with the day we picked in Barcelona (today) | 19:38 |
| fungi | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/xenial-work-remaining Work remaining for Newton testing on Xenial | 19:38 |
| AJaeger | please all help with reviewing: https://review.openstack.org/#/q/topic:st-nicholas-xenial+status:open | 19:38 |
| clarkb | my rough process has been to go through jenkins/jobs/*.yaml alphabetically and crank out changes | 19:38 |
| clarkb | AJaeger is going through the list in reverse sort order | 19:38 |
| AJaeger | we've frozen project-config and will only merge these xenial changes for now. | 19:38 |
| fungi | #info Today is the Xenial cut-over flag day; conversion changes are in flight. | 19:38 |
| AJaeger | anybody that wants to help? Reviewing and doing changes, both is needed! | 19:39 |
| clarkb | anyone that cna help review is much appreciated. If you want to help write changes too we can carve you out a chunk of yaml files in the middle of the alphabet | 19:39 |
| clarkb | I have a feeling this work will carry over into tomorrow. Just based on how much progress we have been making | 19:39 |
| * AJaeger is not sure whether we finish today - I'm at s and will finish that but not sure I can take on much more. | 19:39 | |
| clarkb | its not really slow just lots to do | 19:39 |
| fungi | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/q/is:open+topic:st-nicholas-xenial please review remaining job changes for the switch to xenial | 19:40 |
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| fungi | i don't think it's crucial that we _finish_ today. we told people we'd start force-converting them today | 19:40 |
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| fungi | and progress has been great so far (thanks especially to AJaeger and clarkb who have been writing most of them) | 19:41 |
| AJaeger | clarkb: I won't be able to help much tomorrow | 19:41 |
| clarkb | AJaeger: ok I am sure there will be others around. Thanks for all the work you have done its been a big help | 19:41 |
| clarkb | fungi: I do think we want to get done this week to avoid release team conflicts but yes | 19:41 |
| AJaeger | clarkb: thanks for driving this! | 19:41 |
| fungi | clarkb: yep, completely agree | 19:41 |
| fungi | also once it's done, i think we can put the last nails in the coffin for this priority effort/spec? | 19:42 |
| clarkb | yup | 19:42 |
| fungi | will be nice to scratch one more off the list | 19:42 |
| clarkb | though I do think it is showing us we have a lot of cleanup that we should push on. Basically there is a lot of cruft in our jobs. Experimental and non voting jobs that in theory don't have anyone caring for them since they haven't been updated | 19:43 |
| clarkb | we should probably think about clearing that out before we do any zuulv3 transition | 19:43 |
| fungi | yeah, looks like the last work item will be covered: | 19:43 |
| clarkb | reduces the problem set | 19:43 |
| fungi | #link http://specs.openstack.org/openstack-infra/infra-specs/specs/newton-on-xenial.html#work-items Newton testing on Xenial: Implementation Work Items | 19:43 |
| AJaeger | yes, we need some more cleanups - I'm doing minor local ones while changing but we need some more later | 19:44 |
| clarkb | (I don't think this cleanup should be tracked under this priority effort, its just something I am noticing as I do the work and it could make zuulv3 easier to get it done) | 19:44 |
| fungi | SpamapS: ^ that might be a good task to get on one of the planning boards? | 19:44 |
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| fungi | basically before we convert our corpus of job configs, try to filter out any unused cruft | 19:45 |
| pabelanger | AJaeger: I'll review again shortly | 19:45 |
| jeblair | fungi: we can, but i don't want to set it up as a blocker | 19:45 |
| jeblair | fungi: we're going to end up with tools to convert our jobs mostly automatically | 19:45 |
| clarkb | ya not sure its a blocker | 19:45 |
| jeblair | so they should not be a large cost to the conversion -- cleanup can happen both before and afterwords | 19:46 |
| fungi | okay, so more of a "it will be a nice low-hanging fruit task" | 19:46 |
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| clarkb | more of a "we should really do this beacuse its getting gross in there a bit" | 19:47 |
| fungi | anyway, in summary: review review review | 19:47 |
| fungi | lots of very similar but subtly different changes in flight in project-config, and we've mostly frozen job config changes for any other efforts until we worth these through to inimize merge conflicting | 19:48 |
| AJaeger | we also need some mroe reviewers - yolanda and myself review a lot on project-config, we could use a third reviewer ;) Especially for our own changes I have to ping quite often ;( | 19:48 |
| AJaeger | we emptied the open queue before the freeze to an all-time low of 89 open reviews ;) | 19:48 |
| fungi | totally. infra needs more reviewers in general, but the project-config reviews are extremely high-volume. i also hope that zuul | 19:48 |
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| fungi | v3 minimizes that some | 19:49 |
| jeblair | yes, i'm focusing less on project-config reviews so i can make zuulv3 so we have fewer project-config reviews | 19:49 |
| jeblair | i'm sorry that makes things worse right now, but i hope it will make things better in the future | 19:49 |
| ianw | i can make an effort to get back to more project-config reviews | 19:49 |
| AJaeger | jeblair: appreciated | 19:49 |
| AJaeger | thanks, ianw | 19:50 |
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| pabelanger | I can chip in more too | 19:50 |
| fungi | doesn't look like we have any general topics on the agenda today, so... | 19:51 |
| fungi | #topic Open discussion | 19:51 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:51 | |
| jlvillal | I guilty ask for a review request: devstack-gate https://review.openstack.org/#/c/396717/ | 19:51 |
| ianw | i don't really know what happened with the pypi mirror volume the other day. if anyone with more detailed afs knowledge can glean anything from the logs, that would be cool | 19:52 |
| jlvillal | And a meetbot one: https://review.openstack.org/404407 | 19:52 |
| clarkb | oh good I have alredy reviewed that one | 19:52 |
| jlvillal | heh | 19:52 |
| fungi | and yes, thanks to everyone who finds time to do some reviewing in general. we've lost some key contributors partially or completely in recent months, but our change volume hasn't dropped appreciably | 19:52 |
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| fungi | jlvillal: thanks, that also reminds me... | 19:53 |
| fungi | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-infra/2016-December/004951.html the fedora community wants to collaborate with us on our meetbot fork, and possibly on the errbot-based rewrite | 19:53 |
| mordred | \o/ | 19:54 |
| fungi | i'm always happy when we get opportunities like this to collaborate on community infrastructure projects with others outside openstack | 19:54 |
| jeblair | ++ | 19:55 |
| flaper87 | fungi: collaboration on meetbot sounds awesome indeed | 19:55 |
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| fungi | bkero: harlowja: ^ i think both of you had maybe looked into some of our ircbot stuff, so that thread might interest you? | 19:55 |
| fungi | flaper87: yeah, it's dead upstream, and our fork seems to be the only active one around. so i guess we're upstream now :/ | 19:56 |
| clarkb | fungi: funny how that happens | 19:57 |
| clarkb | "you are crazy enough to be using that software I wrote? tag you're it!" | 19:57 |
| jlvillal | Yeah. Last commit upstream seems to be 2010 or something like that. | 19:57 |
| SpamapS | fungi: regarding cleaning up jobs, I don't think we've defined the set of jobs that have to run reliably to get to operational zuulv3. The capabilities have been the focus. But it's a good point that as we get closer, we'll want to cut the fat. | 19:58 |
| bkero | fungi: Sounds good to me | 19:58 |
| bkero | Thanks for the mention | 19:58 |
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| fungi | aaaaand... we're just about out of time. thanks everyone! | 19:59 |
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| fungi | see you next week, same bat time, same bat channel | 20:00 |
| fungi | #endmeeting | 20:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 20:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Dec 6 20:00:02 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 20:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2016/infra.2016-12-06-19.03.html | 20:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2016/infra.2016-12-06-19.03.txt | 20:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2016/infra.2016-12-06-19.03.log.html | 20:00 |
| stevemar | o/ | 20:00 |
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| ttx | holà | 20:00 |
| fungi | stay tuned for the lovable hijinks of the openstack technical committee, up next! | 20:00 |
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| ttx | dhellmann, dims, dtroyer, EmilienM, flaper87, johnthetubaguy, mordred, mtreinish: around ? | 20:00 |
| EmilienM | bonsoir :-) | 20:00 |
| dtroyer | o/ | 20:00 |
| dhellmann | o/ | 20:00 |
| ttx | sdague and thingee are excused | 20:01 |
| * edleafe lurks behind a tree | 20:01 | |
| sdague | o/ | 20:01 |
| mordred | o/ | 20:01 |
| mordred | look it's an sdague | 20:01 |
| flaper87 | o/ | 20:01 |
| ttx | ah, sdague is back | 20:01 |
| fungi | johnthetubaguy e-mailed saying he's gone today | 20:01 |
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| ttx | How was hiatus? | 20:01 |
| * mordred hands sdague a pie | 20:01 | |
| sdague | mmmm pie | 20:01 |
| stevemar | fungi: hijnks yes, loveable, nope | 20:01 |
| * jroll lurks | 20:01 | |
| sdague | ttx: very refreshing | 20:01 |
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| ttx | fungi: I think he hasd a reason based on honeymoon or such | 20:01 |
| flaper87 | sdague: welcome back | 20:02 |
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| fungi | yup | 20:02 |
| sdague | flaper87: thanks | 20:02 |
| ttx | #startmeeting tc | 20:02 |
| jroll | yeah, john is on honeymoon, congrats to him \o/ | 20:02 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Dec 6 20:02:06 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is ttx. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 20:02 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 20:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:02 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'tc' | 20:02 |
| dhellmann | ttx: dims just contacted me that he won't be able to make it | 20:02 |
| ttx | alright noted | 20:02 |
| ttx | Hi everyone! | 20:02 |
| ttx | Our agenda for today: | 20:02 |
| ttx | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/TechnicalCommittee | 20:02 |
| ttx | (remember to use #info #idea and #link liberally to make for a more readable summary) | 20:02 |
| * Rocky_g just crept under the table with popcorn | 20:02 | |
| ttx | #topic Driver teams: discuss various options | 20:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Driver teams: discuss various options (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:02 | |
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| ttx | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2016-November/thread.html#108074 | 20:02 |
| ttx | I'll let dhellmann introduce the topic, then we'll likely take turns talking so that it's not too messy | 20:02 |
| dhellmann | thanks, ttx | 20:03 |
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| dhellmann | To prepare for some upcoming big tent team proposals, I reviewed our current policies and found that they could be interpreted to not allow a team to build something focused on a single vendor's product line, as a driver would be in a lot of cases. | 20:03 |
| dhellmann | We need to address that, because as things stand we will end up turning away contributors to the community. | 20:03 |
| dhellmann | Both in terms of the people contributing, and in terms of the companies funding much of our work. | 20:03 |
| dhellmann | Given the other recent cutbacks that were beyond our control, I think we should avoid encouraging companies to disengage from the community. | 20:03 |
| mordred | ++ | 20:03 |
| dhellmann | Together ttx, fungi, and I identified 6 potential courses of action, represented by the various patches we've posted for review. | 20:03 |
| dhellmann | I'm going to just paste these all at once, stand by | 20:03 |
| dhellmann | #info option 1. Say that we prefer having a level playing field to allowing standalone driver teams. (Identified as the "hard black" option) | 20:03 |
| dhellmann | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/403834/ | 20:03 |
| dhellmann | #info option 2. Say that the level playing field policy doesn't apply to driver teams, if the resources needed to work on the driver are open. (Identified as the "soft black" option) | 20:03 |
| dhellmann | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/403836/ | 20:03 |
| dhellmann | #info 3. Remove the level playing field statement from the project team policies. (Identified as the "hard white" option) | 20:03 |
| dhellmann | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/403838/ | 20:04 |
| dhellmann | #info 4. Loosen the level playing field statement to exempt driver teams completely. (Identified as the "soft white" option) | 20:04 |
| dhellmann | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/403839/ | 20:04 |
| dhellmann | #info 5. Define a new type of team with different rules based on different expectations for driver teams. (Identified as the "grey" option) | 20:04 |
| dhellmann | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/403829/ | 20:04 |
| dhellmann | #info 6. Require project teams with driver abstractions to host drivers in one of their official repos, as long as they meet some community standards. (Identified as the "red" option) | 20:04 |
| dhellmann | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/403830/ | 20:04 |
| dhellmann | As well as a general resolution that might be mixed in with one of the other changes to provide more detail. | 20:04 |
| dhellmann | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/403826/ | 20:04 |
| dhellmann | So far most of the discussion for the topic has been on the mailing list | 20:04 |
| dhellmann | #link start of thread http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2016-November/thread.html#108074 | 20:04 |
| dhellmann | #link continuation of thread http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2016-December/thread.html#108410 | 20:04 |
| dhellmann | done | 20:04 |
| ttx | I propose we take turns exposing our position, if we have one. Raise your hand (using o/) and wait until I give you voice | 20:04 |
| dhellmann | o/ | 20:04 |
| ttx | I can start | 20:04 |
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| ttx | ah no, dhellmann | 20:04 |
| fungi | the ml discussion was disappointingly sparse. i was hoping we'd drum up more interest in weighing pros and cons | 20:04 |
| dhellmann | oh, that's fine, go ahead | 20:04 |
| ttx | ok | 20:04 |
| ttx | My personal view on this is that we should not dilute our open collaboration principles | 20:05 |
| ttx | which is why I am against the hard white option, and am not a fan of the soft white option | 20:05 |
| flaper87 | o/ | 20:05 |
| ttx | I think it's unhealthy to require teams to adopt code they don't want, so I'm against the red option | 20:05 |
| mtreinish | o/ | 20:05 |
| ttx | At the same time I think it would be better if we could include driver development as a part of our community rather than force it outside | 20:05 |
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| ttx | which is why I'm not a fan of the hard or soft black options. | 20:05 |
| ttx | I like the grey option, because it enables driver teams to be part of the community, without compromising on our principles. | 20:05 |
| ttx | It *clearly* defines a narrow and limited case where it benefits OpenStack to be more flexible, and keeps track of it separately | 20:05 |
| ttx | So in summary: my preference goes to grey, I could live with soft white / hard black / soft black if there is a majority for it, and I'm against hard white / red. | 20:06 |
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| ttx | voice goes to dhellmann | 20:06 |
| dhellmann | I know there have been scaling and social issues within the Neutron team that have led to the current situation (best summed up by Armando and Kevin's posts in the thread). | 20:06 |
| ttx | then flaper87 then mtreinish | 20:06 |
| dhellmann | The other major projects that have drivers have had less trouble with this, which makes it seem that with some adjustments we could adopt a community standard practice. | 20:06 |
| dhellmann | I would prefer to have teams work things out internally so they can scale, rather than forcing scaling to happen by creating multiple teams. | 20:06 |
| dhellmann | If some of our other policies and standards need to be reviewed to allow teams to scale “vertically", we should do that because the alternative is asking more teams to somehow scale “horizontally”. | 20:06 |
| dhellmann | Continuing with drivers within the existing projects also recognizes drivers as important contributions to and features of the services that consume them | 20:06 |
| dhellmann | and encourages the contributors to collaborate with the folks working on the abstraction layers within projects. | 20:07 |
| mtreinish | oh, I was just saying I showed up :) | 20:07 |
| dhellmann | That's the outcome of option 6, without making it a hard requirement. | 20:07 |
| ttx | mtreinish: noted :) | 20:07 |
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| dhellmann | Which, I admit, isn't on the list of proposals and would need work. | 20:07 |
| dhellmann | That said, it's possible that there is not a one-size-fits all solution. | 20:07 |
| dhellmann | If the neutron team is committed to its current course, then I think we need to do something at the TC level, and adopt one of the other proposals. | 20:07 |
| dhellmann | I would prefer to simplify our rules, rather than add new ones, so I lean in favor of either interpreting "level" as meaning anyone can contribute so the teams are ok or removing the phrase entirely. | 20:08 |
| dhellmann | let me convert those to colors... | 20:08 |
| dhellmann | soft black, hard white, or soft white | 20:08 |
| dhellmann | I wrote up the red option, but I agree we don't want to set that precedent | 20:08 |
| dhellmann | done | 20:09 |
| ttx | that is your preference, or the list you can live up with ? | 20:09 |
| mordred | yah. I agree about not liking red | 20:09 |
| dhellmann | I can live with that list | 20:09 |
| dhellmann | oh, I can live with grey, too | 20:09 |
| dhellmann | I just prefer the options that seem simpler | 20:09 |
| ttx | dhellmann: and any preference ? | 20:09 |
| dhellmann | hard or soft white, I guess | 20:09 |
| mordred | I agree with ttx's list and preference except I'm not in favor of hard black | 20:10 |
| ttx | ok so dhellmann says preference hard/soft white, can live with softblack or grey. | 20:10 |
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| ttx | flaper87: voice goes to you | 20:10 |
| flaper87 | So, as I mentioned in the email I like the fact that option #5 acknowledges that drivers are somewhat different from other projects but I like the sense of inclusion that #6 gives. I'd like for #6 to be more explicit about it. I like that #6 gives the opportunity for drivers maintainers t ovote on the PTL election and it gives them also more voice (or the sense of mor voice) to these folks on the | 20:10 |
| flaper87 | team choices. It feels more welcoming and inclusive than #5.That said, I think I'm leaning more towards #5 even though it adds more complexity. It is more explicit and helps with organizing teams better | 20:10 |
| fungi | o/ | 20:10 |
| mordred | ttx: it might be worth spinning up a non-binding condorcet to help us sort through TC preference | 20:10 |
| flaper87 | so, I guess my preference goes to grey | 20:10 |
| sdague | o/ (queuing) | 20:10 |
| ttx | mordred: on it | 20:10 |
| ttx | queue has fungi and sdague next | 20:11 |
| sdague | mordred: why don't we see how close to concensus we are first | 20:11 |
| mordred | sdague: ++ | 20:11 |
| ttx | sdague: ++ | 20:11 |
| ttx | flaper87: preference to grey, and could live with... ? | 20:11 |
| dtroyer | o/ | 20:11 |
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| flaper87 | I could live with soft black and red | 20:12 |
| flaper87 | I think I did the colors right | 20:12 |
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| mugsie | o/ | 20:12 |
| ttx | mordred is: preference to grey, could live with soft white soft black | 20:12 |
| ttx | voice goes to fungi | 20:12 |
| fungi | i drafted the black and white options as i'd much prefer to find minimal policy solutions, or effective interpretations of current policy. the grey option strikes me as giving up on welcoming driver teams into the big tent, and making a smaller exceptions-based tent off to the side they can go sit in | 20:12 |
| ttx | queue gas sdague, dtroyer next | 20:13 |
| ttx | has* | 20:13 |
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| fungi | if we want to welcome them into our community, to me that means finding ways to have one consistent policy which covers them in the same ways as our other teams | 20:13 |
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| ttx | fungi: do you have a preference ? | 20:14 |
| fungi | on the other hand, i definitely want to make sure this doesn't simply become another place to get your driver/product listed to make it look better-supported | 20:14 |
| fungi | so i think my order of preference is soft black, hard white, soft white, hard black, grey, red | 20:15 |
| ttx | are there options you would rather not live with ? | 20:15 |
| * EmilienM voted for hard black but actually would prefer soft black now, after re-reading the policies. | 20:15 | |
| fungi | well, i don't really like red at all since i'm not a fan of telling projects what to do | 20:15 |
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| ttx | fungi: ok | 20:16 |
| smcginnis | Hopefully I'm not derailing anything. Just another data point from me. I would be fine having drivers completely separate if adding a new driver was just a procedural rubber stamp by the core team. But I have yet to see a new driver submission that has not had to go through 20+ patch revs before it's in a decent shape to be accepted. | 20:16 |
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| smcginnis | My concern would be someone would run Cinder and an out of tree driver that has issues and have a bad experience. | 20:16 |
| smcginnis | That would reflect badly on OpenStack and Cinder, even if it was entirely on the vendor for having issues. | 20:16 |
| ttx | that is a fair point | 20:17 |
| ttx | voice goes to sdague | 20:17 |
| sdague | ok, I feel like red is a no go entirely, that just turns into a friction level that won't work | 20:17 |
| ttx | queue has dtroyer next, amybe mugsie if I interpreted the o/ right and no other TC member wants voice | 20:17 |
| ttx | sdague: ++ | 20:18 |
| sdague | my preference is to grey, because while drivers are a contribution to openstack, they tend to be a much more self serving contribution for a particular piece of vendor hardware / software | 20:18 |
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| sdague | and I want to distinguish things that are purely that from working on the common base | 20:19 |
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| sdague | especially in our over analyticized community | 20:19 |
| ttx | sdague: are you done ? | 20:19 |
| ttx | (I completely agree) | 20:19 |
| sdague | yeh, that's probably good enough for now | 20:19 |
| ttx | dtroyer; you're up | 20:20 |
| dtroyer | I agree with the desire for driver inclusion by the project teams, basically how dhellmann described it but not forced like the red option ( as written, red it not an option for me). I recognize that is not always going to work out. I do think that recognizing the specifics of these kinds of teams may be necessary. It is a bit of a side-test as fungi put it, but I see that as part carrot, part stick to try and make the | 20:20 |
| dtroyer | We are talking about code that by its very nature can not be tested the same way as the majority of OpenStack so we are already making exceptions for them. I believe recognizing that and guiding it will improve the situation. | 20:21 |
| dtroyer | My preference is for grey, soft white | 20:21 |
| dtroyer | fini | 20:21 |
| ttx | mugsie: did you want voice ? | 20:21 |
| fungi | o/ | 20:21 |
| mugsie | yeah -I just had one thought | 20:21 |
| sdague | just a side comment, nothing here says that projects can't have drivers in tree, its for the case in which they choose not to for a particular driver / driver team | 20:21 |
| ttx | yeah, I would still encourage drivers to be in-tree, dhellmann has a complementary resolution for that | 20:22 |
| dtroyer | sdague: ++, we should encourage that by default | 20:22 |
| flaper87 | sdague: yeah, this is specific for vendor specific drivers, I think. but you phrased it better | 20:22 |
| mugsie | for the softs, and the grey option, should something like 3rd party testing be a requirement ? | 20:22 |
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| ttx | mugsie: there could be | 20:22 |
| Rocky_g | o/ two side comments | 20:22 |
| flaper87 | mugsie: yeah, I think that's part of the proposal (probably not explicit) | 20:22 |
| mugsie | (I have been out ofr a while, and I did not see it in the ML thread - but if this has been answered, I appologise) | 20:22 |
| sdague | meaning option pink (the thing dtroyer / dhellman hint towards) is kind of already in our DNA. | 20:22 |
| mugsie | I think that there should be a way of a random dev knoing that this change should work | 20:23 |
| dhellmann | mugsie : inclusion requirements would still be up to each team, imo | 20:23 |
| ttx | queue has fungi, Rocky_g | 20:23 |
| dhellmann | sdague, the resolution in https://review.openstack.org/#/c/403826/1/resolutions/20161128-driver-teams.rst ends with a statement encouraging drivers to stay in projects | 20:24 |
| mugsie | from my perspective, if I have to make a change to the driver interface, I would like to be able to send a patch to the repo, and see if it breaks | 20:24 |
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| ttx | mugsie: I think we could formalize that whatever the chosen option is | 20:24 |
| ttx | fungi: you're up | 20:24 |
| fungi | i should have probably clarified that my biggest concern with grey is that we're effectively developing what could be seen as a registry of drivers, and it turns into a means of indicating that your driver is approved by the openstack technical committee (rather than just a place to recognize teams working on something we can't count as being on the same level as other projects in the tent) | 20:24 |
| fungi | mugsie's comments reinforce that concern for me | 20:24 |
| dhellmann | ++ | 20:24 |
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| dhellmann | o/ | 20:25 |
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| sdague | like, I wouldn't see Nova dumping hyperv or xenapi while there were still notable users of those. If it turned out all the users of these things we knew about went away (or all the people maintaining it), we might want to put it out of tree. Basically that's what happened with the docker driver. | 20:25 |
| ttx | I don't really see how the other options help with that though | 20:25 |
| fungi | third-party testing requirements, code quality, et cetera are things service teams would want to require of drivers to determine how well they're supported, independent of how they're governed | 20:25 |
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| EmilienM | fungi: +1 | 20:25 |
| Rocky_g | ++ | 20:25 |
| fungi | the other options besides grey don't involve the tc maintaining an approved list of drivers | 20:25 |
| sdague | fungi: I think you address that with reporting on 3rd party CI status | 20:26 |
| ttx | Well, that's not what grey is -- it's just keeping track of teams | 20:26 |
| sdague | but, I think that's true for any approach | 20:26 |
| fungi | i think the tc shouldn't have a stake in third-party testing | 20:26 |
| sdague | fungi: who should have that stake? | 20:26 |
| fungi | i think with the less-is-more governance approach, that's something that ought to be up to the individual service teams | 20:26 |
| jroll | o/ quick question | 20:26 |
| ttx | Rocky_g: you're up, then dhellmann, jroll | 20:27 |
| Rocky_g | K. Firs, I want to say this mode of discussion is great and I encourage its use whenever there are invitees to discuss topics. I can easily follow it. | 20:28 |
| mordred | ++ | 20:28 |
| Rocky_g | Second. Just want to remind everyone of Poppy and say that you may want to consider how it might become part of the big tent based on the outcome of this dicision | 20:28 |
| Rocky_g | Done | 20:28 |
| ttx | (fungi: I'm interested in ways we could tweak grey to reduce that potential side-effect) | 20:29 |
| ttx | dhellmann: you're up | 20:29 |
| dhellmann | Whatever solution we pick, I think we’ll also need to address the driver support documentation question. | 20:29 |
| dhellmann | I know there’s a site managed by the foundation, but I’m not sure project teams have the input into that data to make them comfortable enough with these “official” drivers living out of tree. | 20:29 |
| dhellmann | Because although we’re talking about a governance change and teams, it’s clear to me from the discussions I’ve had with other folks that they don’t always make the distinction between code and teams, so a list of “driver teams” is going to look a lot like a list of “supported drivers” to some. | 20:29 |
| dhellmann | over | 20:29 |
| mordred | ++ | 20:29 |
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| Rocky_g | o/ | 20:30 |
| dtroyer | We've fallen short of these special driver teams are indistinguishable from in-tree drivers | 20:30 |
| ttx | I think that's unescapable though... you can bury the information in a larger yaml, won't make it less official | 20:30 |
| ttx | jroll: you're up | 20:30 |
| dhellmann | right, I'm suggesting that we need to actually document the level of support for all drivers | 20:30 |
| jroll | thanks | 20:30 |
| jroll | with the red option, does that allow any choice at all for the project teams? e.g. a driver that works but the project team fundamentally disagrees with (not-so-real example: a network switch provisioning driver for ironic, if ironic decides it doesn't want to provision switches). or allowing the project team to have requirements like third party CI to accept the driver repo into the project. | 20:31 |
| Rocky_g | ++ dhellmann | 20:31 |
| ttx | dhellmann: agree that the driver marketplace or whatever the name is needs to be revved up | 20:31 |
| sdague | jroll: I think those conflicts are going to be frequent, which is why most people voicing opinions here have put the red option as not viable | 20:32 |
| jroll | or is it a hard "project teams must allow any driver" | 20:32 |
| jroll | even sillier example, a coffeepot driver for ironic (this exists!) | 20:32 |
| ttx | jroll: it's called red for a reason. Lots of blood | 20:32 |
| * ttx lags a bit, so lets switch to normal open discussion | 20:32 | |
| fungi | the red option was a bit more of a straw-man than the others, i think. if it were a serious contender it would almost certainly need a lot more detail | 20:32 |
| jroll | okay, cool, I may have missed some things, thanks | 20:33 |
| Rocky_g | So, ttx calling it "driver marketplace" gets to my next comment. Make it a driver store so customers can rate them and leave comments | 20:33 |
| ttx | It feels like grey is promising but the devil is in the details. The one person that ranked it very low was fungi | 20:33 |
| mtreinish | jroll: I want to use that driver :) | 20:33 |
| dhellmann | jroll : teams could have rules like third-party ci | 20:33 |
| dhellmann | it would be weird for someone to write a switch driver that met ironic's API, but if that came up I think you could say it doesn't follow the mission of the team so it's out of scope | 20:33 |
| dhellmann | jroll : does that answer your questions? | 20:33 |
| fungi | i still feel like grey is a lot of bureaucracy and red tape for something we could accomplish in other ways | 20:33 |
| sdague | Rocky_g: I feel like customers rating things only works at statistically high volume of ratings | 20:33 |
| smcginnis | jroll: https://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc2324.txt | 20:33 |
| jroll | dhellmann: yes, it does, thanks | 20:33 |
| ttx | fungi: we could talk it through. I fear that not red-taping it would add a lot of confusion | 20:34 |
| ttx | including tainting our principles in a bad light | 20:34 |
| fungi | also, some of these aren't entirely mutually exclusive | 20:34 |
| flaper87 | so, I assume normal voting will happen over reviews, right ? | 20:35 |
| flaper87 | sdague: ++ | 20:35 |
| ttx | Basically I think people will have a hard time considering open collaboration to be an important tenet if they can't spot one team from another | 20:35 |
| fungi | hard black was meant to represent the status quo assumption that no driver could ever be independently developed and still meet our community's standards | 20:35 |
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| fungi | soft black addresses teh question of what happens if a driver is developed by a normal (to us) team outside the vendor who makes that product (it happens in lots of other communities) | 20:35 |
| ttx | soft black to me is the status quo | 20:36 |
| ttx | (the way I interpret the current rules) | 20:36 |
| EmilienM | flaper87: I hope so :) | 20:36 |
| ttx | like dhellmann said, if we just keep the same those driver teams would get rejected today | 20:36 |
| fungi | fair enough, it was my interpretation as well, but the grey option seems to assume that you can't write a driver as a "normal" project team without also developing other things | 20:37 |
| dhellmann | ttx: that's interesting, I saw the status quo as hard black unless the driver is for an open source project of some sort, and those aren't having any trouble staying in-tree | 20:37 |
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| sdague | fungi: in what way? | 20:37 |
| fungi | i personally don't want to lose the possibility to encourage drivers to be developed openly and independent of their vendors, and for vendors to release good specs for their hardware to make that possible | 20:37 |
| sdague | dhellmann: maybe with neutron, but not with other projects | 20:37 |
| ttx | dhellmann: why ? we always said that if a driver team somehow magically provided the same resources to every contributor, it would be a level playing field | 20:38 |
| flaper87 | I want to welcome drivers so, I really hope the voting will be done around how we can achieve this | 20:38 |
| dhellmann | ttx: right, but that isn't a realistic situation, which is why we're effectively hard-black now | 20:38 |
| dhellmann | sdague : yes, true | 20:38 |
| fungi | i also feel like if we make concessions to driver teams, we reduce the incentive for them to become more open and just accept that it will never happen | 20:38 |
| flaper87 | dhellmann: ++ | 20:38 |
| sdague | grey feels like a way we can give drivers space here in the community, but still distinguish that they are different | 20:38 |
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| fungi | grey feels like defining a second community which is almost like ours but in a twilight-zone parallel dimension | 20:39 |
| dhellmann | grey still blocks a project like poppy, right? | 20:39 |
| sdague | fungi: maybe, but we also need to figure out what other efficiencies and costs are we going to trade for building that incentive structure for driver teams | 20:39 |
| ttx | yeah, I feel like anything less would create a lot of confusion. Like "why are you rejecting my project ? That team over there is doing this and that" | 20:39 |
| dtroyer | I don't think the poppy conclusion changes with this discussion | 20:39 |
| ttx | dhellmann: no | 20:40 |
| ttx | poppy actually is OK with hard black :) | 20:40 |
| ttx | since it does not benefit a single party | 20:40 |
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| dhellmann | yes, well, that was my position when we voted, too. I'm trying to understand if any of these options allow poppy to join. | 20:40 |
| ttx | I'd say all of them. But that's a separate discussion | 20:41 |
| ttx | So... next actions | 20:41 |
| dhellmann | in the minds of those who voted against it | 20:41 |
| ttx | should we just vote on the proposal, or take some of them through an iterative improvement process ? | 20:41 |
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| dhellmann | are there any others than the red option we can eliminate from further discussion? | 20:41 |
| dtroyer | I think we should identify the two or three realistic ones and work on them | 20:41 |
| flaper87 | can we just abandon the ones didn't get a vote? | 20:41 |
| * dims just barely made it home | 20:41 | |
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| EmilienM | +1 for iterative improvement process | 20:42 |
| ttx | I consider grey promising, but would not consider it perfect or final | 20:42 |
| sdague | ttx: ++ | 20:42 |
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| dhellmann | dims : did you want to say anything about the driver team stuff before we start dropping options and moving to next steps? | 20:42 |
| sdague | it just seems like the starting point of what reality is | 20:42 |
| ttx | there might be ways to improve it that would reduce fungi's concerns about it | 20:42 |
| flaper87 | ttx: we have some votings/preferences. Let's get those and abandon the rest | 20:42 |
| flaper87 | I think grey is promising and I think we could improve it | 20:42 |
| ttx | OK, I'll go through them and propose an outcome based on that discussion | 20:42 |
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| dims | dhellmann : gotta read scroll back, but will respond on the reviews (grey( | 20:42 |
| flaper87 | ++ | 20:42 |
| flaper87 | thanks, ttx | 20:42 |
| dhellmann | I will happily yield ownership of the grey patch to someone who wants to work on updates | 20:42 |
| stevemar | makes sense to remove the ones that didn't get any positive feedback | 20:43 |
| ttx | stevemar: yes | 20:43 |
| EmilienM | stevemar: +1 | 20:43 |
| ttx | and then see if we can improve any of the ones we seem to be able to "live with" | 20:43 |
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| ttx | Let's move on to next topic ? | 20:43 |
| flaper87 | I'd be happy to help wih grey but I'm working on the languages ref doc so I'll let that to someone else | 20:43 |
| dhellmann | s/with/by/ | 20:43 |
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| ttx | live by, that's the one | 20:43 |
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| ttx | I confuse them | 20:43 |
| flaper87 | ttx: you and me both | 20:43 |
| dhellmann | maybe someone slightly less invested wants to moderate the updates? | 20:44 |
| dhellmann | stevemar? | 20:44 |
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| stevemar | dhellmann: happy to | 20:44 |
| dhellmann | cool, thanks | 20:44 |
| flaper87 | dhellmann: stevemar ++ | 20:44 |
| fungi | i've been trying to think of ways to mitigate my concern with grey... but it's similar to why the vmt doesn't publish the list of vendors who subscribe for advance notifications. as soon as the openstack community opens another place for companies to list their names, they'll flock to it in droves | 20:44 |
| stevemar | keystone has no stake here | 20:44 |
| ttx | stevemar: cool, if you lack rights to abandon, just let me know | 20:44 |
| stevemar | ttx: ack | 20:45 |
| ttx | #action stevemar to summarize outcomes for each proposal and propose abandons | 20:45 |
| ttx | #topic Amend reference/PTI with supported distros | 20:45 |
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| ttx | #link https://review.openstack.org/402940 | 20:45 |
| ttx | EmilienM: want to introduce that one ? | 20:45 |
| EmilienM | maybe :) | 20:45 |
| mtreinish | fungi: yeah, that's kinda what I was wondering. What does the community (and the project teams) get out of this? | 20:45 |
| mtreinish | s/project/driver | 20:45 |
| EmilienM | so I want to be quick, I noticed some projects don't gate functional tests on centos7 | 20:45 |
| dims | mtreinish : access to vertical teams (docs, translation) | 20:46 |
| ttx | (fungi: we can still have pretty high requirements, like 3rd party testing) | 20:46 |
| EmilienM | and it might seem important to us to consider is, as some of our users are deploying on this platform | 20:46 |
| EmilienM | I found useful to share this feedback and propose this change | 20:46 |
| dhellmann | EmilienM : is the issue mainly that there are differences in dependencies on those platforms? or other configuration issues? | 20:46 |
| EmilienM | dhellmann: dependencies | 20:47 |
| mtreinish | dhellmann: well centos devstack is often broken because of config differences too | 20:47 |
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| mtreinish | and no one ever looks at it | 20:47 |
| mordred | I think that's my biggest concern | 20:47 |
| mtreinish | which I think is the actual issue on that | 20:47 |
| ttx | the way it's phrased, it's just encouraging tests to use more of CentOs, right ? | 20:47 |
| mordred | devstack centos is frequently broken | 20:47 |
| EmilienM | please keep in mind my idea was not about blocking any feature because this feature wouldn't work on centos7 | 20:47 |
| sdague | right, it's pretty much only ianw keeping that working | 20:47 |
| flaper87 | mtreinish: yeah, I was going to say that it's probably mainly dependencies but there's also something about configs | 20:47 |
| fungi | there are projects interested in gating on dependencies too new to be present in lts releases of either ubuntu or centos | 20:47 |
| mordred | and until thats' more solid, having other things depending on it seems scary | 20:47 |
| sdague | mordred: ++ | 20:47 |
| mordred | otoh ... | 20:47 |
| mordred | if more projects depended on it - it would potentially get more people caring | 20:48 |
| fungi | it's one thing if they want to develop features that can _never_ work on a platform we intend to support | 20:48 |
| dhellmann | this is all phrased as encouraging teams to do it voluntarily, right? | 20:48 |
| dhellmann | EmilienM : ^^ | 20:48 |
| mordred | does devstack gate itself on centos? | 20:48 |
| EmilienM | dhellmann: exactly | 20:48 |
| dims | yes, it is dhellmann | 20:48 |
| mtreinish | mordred: it's nv (or experimental) because it doesn't work | 20:48 |
| mtreinish | I think | 20:48 |
| * mtreinish checks | 20:48 | |
| sdague | from a pragmatic perspective I'd like to get more centos fans contributing in the QA / infra space first to keep things working. It feels like that's a foundation we are missing before telling teams to do more of it | 20:48 |
| flaper87 | I think the first step is to encourage folks to voluntarily depend on it and then improve support | 20:49 |
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| mordred | sdague: ++ | 20:49 |
| clarkb | mtreinish: correct | 20:49 |
| fungi | nv last a looked, and seemed to be passing regularly recently | 20:49 |
| clarkb | devstack too | 20:49 |
| EmilienM | and I know people here like devstack but I've been also working on making tripleo jobs usable outside TripleO projects (eg: you can run them in Ceilometer's gate, and it uses Centos7) | 20:49 |
| flaper87 | but I'm not too much into infra | 20:49 |
| mtreinish | clarkb wins :) | 20:49 |
| ttx | sdague: yeah, if the support is shaky right now maybe adding more tests on that platform is a recipe for more fail | 20:49 |
| mordred | yah - I think we need to encourage that to be in good shape as a baseline - otherwise we're recommending something to project teams that will not work | 20:49 |
| EmilienM | the jobs take less than 50 minutes and have pretty good coverage and are maintained by tripleo foks... not sure you like the idea | 20:49 |
| dhellmann | do we have some sort of objective measure we could use to say "when X is done then we can approve this"? | 20:50 |
| flaper87 | a.k.a I think this is a good first step | 20:50 |
| jeblair | as a reminder, here is the existing distro support policy: http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2012-December/004052.html | 20:50 |
| EmilienM | anyway, beside the tools, the idea was really about documenting our official platforms we like to support in our tests | 20:50 |
| mordred | dhellmann: for me I think it would be that devstack itself has a gating job running on centos | 20:50 |
| sdague | EmilienM: I think thrusting not only a second OS, but a second install & dev model on development teams is really burdensome | 20:50 |
| JayF | If this is desirable, I wonder if it'd be a good target for a cross-project Pike goal, in the vein of the oslo-incubator stuff from Ocata. | 20:50 |
| mordred | which I think would be a good thing to exist ... but is under-resourced | 20:50 |
| JayF | Rather than simply being a policy change. | 20:50 |
| ttx | jeblair: nice history dive | 20:50 |
| dhellmann | mordred : will the QA team accept that job, if there's someone working on it? it seems like it would be easier to keep support if they put the job in place. | 20:51 |
| clarkb | as the person currently trying to force all of openstack to use xenial (eg update from trusty) even getting projects to do that is almost impossible | 20:51 |
| sdague | mordred: it breaks a bit too often for that to be the case right now | 20:51 |
| fungi | gate-tempest-dsvm-platform-centos7-nv ran successfully against https://review.openstack.org/404476 in <50 minutes | 20:51 |
| clarkb | so as a reality check I don't think the proposed change is going to help anything project side | 20:51 |
| sdague | dhellmann: centos breaks for quite odd reasons | 20:51 |
| EmilienM | sdague: i don't disagree | 20:51 |
| jeblair | actually, i think the thing voted on is: https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/python-support-motion | 20:51 |
| jeblair | http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2013/tc.2013-01-08-20.02.html | 20:51 |
| dhellmann | sdague : not related to changes in devstack itself? | 20:51 |
| mordred | sdague: yes - I agree - mostly saying that if that is the goal then people can talk about resourcing it | 20:51 |
| mordred | jeblair, ttx: we should maybe get that into the governance repo? | 20:51 |
| mtreinish | fungi: but it's not running exactl the same thing, like ssl is disabled there | 20:51 |
| sdague | dhellmann: nope. A bunch of things take more kernel memory on centos that cause issues | 20:51 |
| sdague | there have been a number of odd bugs | 20:52 |
| clarkb | ya wecan't ssl on centos because apache doesn't work | 20:52 |
| ttx | ok, so it sounds like it's a bit early for even suggesting ? | 20:52 |
| fungi | mtreinish: exciting, so there's stuff we've disabled to get it to run on centos? | 20:52 |
| mtreinish | yep | 20:52 |
| ttx | mordred: propose and you should get it | 20:52 |
| stevemar | clarkb: that seems rather limiting | 20:52 |
| sdague | plus, the cadence is so much slower that we get drive away from the tooling that people want to be using | 20:52 |
| dhellmann | sdague : ok. we're going to have a hard time coming up with resources to address it if there's not a general sense that the devstack team would welcome it. | 20:52 |
| mordred | ttx: k. I guess I just walked in to that | 20:52 |
| ttx | kind of | 20:52 |
| clarkb | stevemar: I am sure it can be made to work but no one is doing the work | 20:52 |
| ttx | I would blame jeblair for pushing you into it | 20:52 |
| sdague | dhellmann: if there were more people on top of it so that the existing team didn't have to drop everything to go figure it out, it would help | 20:53 |
| jeblair | plonk | 20:53 |
| fungi | presumably we then need a reasonably similar configuration and to have it running the same tempest tests as we currently run against ubuntu 16.04 | 20:53 |
| dims | ++ sdague | 20:53 |
| dhellmann | sdague : yeah, so we need both "sides" to agree it's a reasonable goal :-) | 20:53 |
| dims | ++ dhellmann :) | 20:53 |
| sdague | right now it's mostly ianw, and he's in .au tz. It's too much to ask him to own it all 24 hours a day | 20:53 |
| dhellmann | of course | 20:53 |
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| dhellmann | I'm thinking RH ought to be involved | 20:54 |
| mtreinish | sdague: I have faith in ianw :) | 20:54 |
| ttx | OK, so it sounds like it's a bit early to even suggest this | 20:54 |
| EmilienM | do you folks have #action ? we're seeing lot of things now | 20:54 |
| flaper87 | mtreinish: lol | 20:54 |
| sdague | ianw is great, don't get me wrong | 20:54 |
| fungi | ianw is amazing, but yes he should have some more support from his colleagues at rh it sounds like | 20:54 |
| ttx | what is the next step ? | 20:54 |
| EmilienM | dhellmann: yes, we have the resources I think | 20:54 |
| dhellmann | EmilienM : you and I should see if we can get some resources working on better centos support for devstack | 20:54 |
| sdague | it's just that we've got the rest of the core team, plus 20 - 40 other random community members that will show up to fix devstack on ubuntu | 20:54 |
| flaper87 | I think getting some action items that would help moving this forward would be great | 20:54 |
| ttx | #info dhellmann and EmilienM should see if we can get some resources working on better centos support for devstack | 20:54 |
| EmilienM | dhellmann: I volunteer to work on this thing, even if I'm not a devstack fan | 20:54 |
| dhellmann | then we can try for a voting gate job, and then we can see about getting this change added | 20:54 |
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| sdague | and an order of magnitude less on the centos side | 20:55 |
| EmilienM | ttx: thx | 20:55 |
| ttx | #info because it's a blocker to larger use of CentOS in test jobs | 20:55 |
| jroll | is the goal to duplicate all devstack jobs to run on both ubuntu and centos? is infra cool with doubling that? | 20:55 |
| ttx | OK, let's move on quickly to next topic | 20:55 |
| jroll | (I assume so but throwing it out there) | 20:55 |
| mtreinish | jroll: nah, I think it's just to have a token centos job | 20:55 |
| fungi | jroll: probably not entirely duplicate, no | 20:55 |
| ttx | jroll: I think you would matrix them, some tests on CenTOS, some on Ubuntu | 20:55 |
| jroll | okay cool | 20:56 |
| mordred | I don't think we need to double across the board - just make it possible for _some_ things to opt in to centos stuff if they desire | 20:56 |
| ttx | #topic Do not allow data plane downtime during upgrades | 20:56 |
| mordred | other people are more succinct :) | 20:56 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Do not allow data plane downtime during upgrades (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:56 | |
| ttx | #link https://review.openstack.org/404361 | 20:56 |
| ttx | We don't have much time to discuss it | 20:56 |
| ttx | probably better to put it on next week agenda | 20:56 |
| stevemar | dolphm: around? | 20:56 |
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| dolphm | stevemar: yes | 20:57 |
| stevemar | ttx: probably for the best | 20:57 |
| ttx | I think we can discuss on the review until then | 20:57 |
| dolphm | i'm good for next week with 2 minutes left on the clock ;) | 20:57 |
| mordred | I agree with dhellmann's comment in the review | 20:57 |
| stevemar | dolphm: thanks :) | 20:57 |
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| ttx | #topic Open discussion | 20:57 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:57 | |
| mordred | as much as I'm sure we all want to bikeshed over words - 'data plane' is sufficiently vague that I don't expect everyone to agree what it means | 20:58 |
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| ttx | If you have a strong opinion on where to allow meetings to happen (more meeting rooms or opening up project rooms to meetings) please comment on the thread | 20:58 |
| mordred | I know what _I_ would expect from it - but I also expect directly routable IPv4 to VMs as a default and other people don't - so we should be clear | 20:58 |
| dhellmann | I also suspect that given a bunch of existing projects with this tag, a new tag will be easier to implement that a major change in the rules | 20:58 |
| mordred | dhellmann: yah | 20:58 |
| dims | fyi, i spent the morning talking to folks at massachusetts open cloud (they use openstack a lot) https://info.massopencloud.org/blog/2016-moc-fall-workshop/ | 20:58 |
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| dhellmann | dims : nice, thanks for the link | 20:59 |
| fungi | mass o' cloud ;) | 20:59 |
| dolphm | dhellmann: that's a good point | 20:59 |
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| sdague | dhellmann: honestly, it was kind of implied in the current tag | 20:59 |
| ttx | IRC meetings thread: http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2016-December/108360.html | 20:59 |
| sdague | and the automated testing that you have to run to get that tag | 20:59 |
| dims | :) | 20:59 |
| dhellmann | dolphm : someone else did make it in the review, so I don't get credit :-) | 20:59 |
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| sdague | we can define data plane, if that's an issue for folks | 20:59 |
| dtroyer | no tag upgrades? | 21:00 |
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| ttx | At the board meeting today they mentioned they might want to do a joint TC/Board meeting around the PTG | 21:00 |
| ttx | Though it's not really an official proposal yet | 21:00 |
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| ttx | but fair warning | 21:00 |
| fungi | in the same vicinity as the ptg? | 21:00 |
| flaper87 | good to know | 21:00 |
| mordred | ttx: it would likely be good to communicate that most of the TC is likely to be booked all 5 weekdays | 21:00 |
| flaper87 | someone asked me tha recently | 21:00 |
| flaper87 | mordred: ++ | 21:01 |
| mordred | since most of the TC is fairly strongly involved in both vertical and horizontal efforts | 21:01 |
| jeblair | yeah, could we please not double book the tc? | 21:01 |
| mordred | and the PTG has been planned for a while | 21:01 |
| dims | thanks for the heads up ttx, will have to book flights accordingly | 21:01 |
| ttx | We migth have some time on the Friday | 21:01 |
| mordred | like, as a TC member, I will not attend that if it's during the week | 21:01 |
| ttx | anyway, more on that when they actually talk to me about it | 21:01 |
| jeblair | or, i guess, if it does happen, maybe i'll just go home a day early or whatever | 21:01 |
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| ttx | and we are offtime | 21:01 |
| ttx | thanks everyone | 21:01 |
| flaper87 | o/ | 21:01 |
| ttx | #endmeeting | 21:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 21:01 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Dec 6 21:01:57 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 21:01 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2016/tc.2016-12-06-20.02.html | 21:02 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2016/tc.2016-12-06-20.02.txt | 21:02 |
| EmilienM | ttx: thx for chairing as usual :) | 21:02 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2016/tc.2016-12-06-20.02.log.html | 21:02 |
| ttx | sorry for lateness | 21:02 |
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