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| yamamot__ | hi | 07:05 |
| yamamot__ | #startmeeting networking_midonet | 07:05 |
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| yamamot__ | anyone here for networking-midonet meeting? | 07:10 |
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| yamamot__ | #startmeeting networking_midonet | 07:15 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Apr 5 07:15:00 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is yamamot__. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 07:15 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 07:15 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: networking_midonet)" | 07:15 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'networking_midonet' | 07:15 |
| yamamot__ | #topic Agenda | 07:15 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Agenda (Meeting topic: networking_midonet)" | 07:15 | |
| yamamot__ | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/NetworkingMidoNet | 07:15 |
| yamamot__ | #topic Announcements | 07:15 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Announcements (Meeting topic: networking_midonet)" | 07:15 | |
| yamamot__ | nothing from me | 07:16 |
| yamamot__ | #topic Bugs | 07:16 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Bugs (Meeting topic: networking_midonet)" | 07:16 | |
| yamamot__ | #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/networking-midonet/ | 07:16 |
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| yamamot__ | #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/networking-midonet/+bug/1566144 | 07:16 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1566144 in networking-midonet "MidonetL2GatewayTestCase failure" [Critical,New] | 07:16 |
| yamamot__ | this one is new | 07:16 |
| yamamot__ | kengo is looking at that | 07:17 |
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| yamamot__ | it has been broken by the recent networking-l2gw change | 07:19 |
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| yamamot__ | i feel we should try harder to cooperate with "upstream" to avoid this kind of breakage. | 07:22 |
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| yamamot__ | i'll continue bug deputy | 07:23 |
| yamamot__ | #topic extra top-level package | 07:24 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "extra top-level package (Meeting topic: networking_midonet)" | 07:24 | |
| yamamot__ | we currently have the plugin code under midonet.neutron | 07:24 |
| yamamot__ | this structure occasionally causes problems | 07:25 |
| yamamot__ | i'm wondering why this structure was chosen in the first place | 07:25 |
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| yamamot__ | if anyone reading this meeting log has an idea, let me know. | 07:25 |
| yamamot__ | #topic Open Discussion | 07:25 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: networking_midonet)" | 07:25 | |
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| yamamot__ | i guess we've done | 07:26 |
| * yamamot__ waiting for a few mins before closing the meeting | 07:26 | |
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| yamamot__ | bye! | 07:27 |
| yamamot__ | #endmeeting | 07:27 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 07:27 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Apr 5 07:27:55 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 07:27 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/networking_midonet/2016/networking_midonet.2016-04-05-07.15.html | 07:27 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/networking_midonet/2016/networking_midonet.2016-04-05-07.15.txt | 07:27 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/networking_midonet/2016/networking_midonet.2016-04-05-07.15.log.html | 07:28 |
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| lennyb | #startmeeting third-party | 08:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Apr 5 08:00:06 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is lennyb. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 08:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 08:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: third-party)" | 08:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'third_party' | 08:00 |
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| lennyb | hello | 08:00 |
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| lennyb | #endmeeting | 08:20 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 08:20 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Apr 5 08:20:24 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 08:20 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/third_party/2016/third_party.2016-04-05-08.00.html | 08:20 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/third_party/2016/third_party.2016-04-05-08.00.txt | 08:20 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/third_party/2016/third_party.2016-04-05-08.00.log.html | 08:20 |
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| Qiming | #startmeeting senlin | 13:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Apr 5 13:00:13 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is Qiming. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 13:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 13:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: senlin)" | 13:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'senlin' | 13:00 |
| Qiming | evening/morning | 13:00 |
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| Yanyanhu | hi | 13:00 |
| haiwei | hi | 13:00 |
| Qiming | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/SenlinAgenda | 13:00 |
| elynn | o/ | 13:00 |
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| Qiming | pls check if you have items to add | 13:01 |
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| cschulz | Hi | 13:01 |
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| Qiming | #topic Rally testing intro | 13:01 |
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| *** openstack changes topic to "Rally testing intro (Meeting topic: senlin)" | 13:01 | |
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| Qiming | Yanyanhu, could you share with us something? | 13:02 |
| Yanyanhu | my part? | 13:02 |
| Yanyanhu | sure | 13:02 |
| Qiming | who is rally expert in the team? | 13:02 |
| Yanyanhu | in last two weeks, I worked on Senlin support in Rally | 13:02 |
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| Yanyanhu | haiwei, I guess :) | 13:02 |
| haiwei | not an expert, Yanyanhu | 13:02 |
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| Yanyanhu | we try to leverage Rally's scenario test ability to support stress/performance test of senlin api/engine services | 13:03 |
| Yanyanhu | haiwei, met neither :) | 13:03 |
| Yanyanhu | so the first step is adding senlin support into Rally | 13:03 |
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| haiwei | saw your patch | 13:03 |
| Yanyanhu | two patches have been proposed here https://review.openstack.org/298109 | 13:03 |
| Yanyanhu | and here https://review.openstack.org/301522 | 13:04 |
| Qiming | rally is not using tempest model? | 13:04 |
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| Yanyanhu | not very sure about it, but I guess so | 13:04 |
| elynn | Will it overlap with existing tempest scenarios? | 13:04 |
| Yanyanhu | user can define a test job using decription file | 13:04 |
| Yanyanhu | elynn, I guess there could be overlap | 13:04 |
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| elynn | Okay, then two codes need to be maintained... | 13:05 |
| Yanyanhu | but IMHO, Rally is very suitable for performance test | 13:05 |
| Qiming | I'm wondering what's the advantage of using both rally and tempest | 13:05 |
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| cschulz | Rally site seems to imply that Rally runs tempest test under the covers. | 13:06 |
| Qiming | is it legitimate to create 1000 VMs ? | 13:06 |
| Yanyanhu | elynn, actually, for senlin support of Rally, all codes will be submitted to Rally project | 13:06 |
| Yanyanhu | Qiming, that's possible | 13:07 |
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| Qiming | I'm a little bit concerned with patch #301522, because we are (will be) duplicating quite some code | 13:08 |
| Yanyanhu | cschulz, nice. If so, we can consider to integrate the senlin rally test and tempest support | 13:08 |
| Yanyanhu | Qiming, that's true | 13:08 |
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| cschulz | I think so. | 13:08 |
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| Yanyanhu | Qiming, but I'm not sure how to let rally support senlin based on our current work about tempest? | 13:09 |
| elynn | OK, then the question would be how to integrate these two things. | 13:09 |
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| Qiming | if test cases are written in the tempest plugin model | 13:09 |
| Qiming | should they live in senlin code base instead? | 13:10 |
| Yanyanhu | I guess that means we need to contribute some support about senlin to tempest project? | 13:10 |
| Yanyanhu | Qiming, not sure how rally can use them if so | 13:10 |
| Qiming | it is just stevedore plugin | 13:10 |
| Yanyanhu | will make investigation | 13:10 |
| elynn | Yanyanhu, with tempest plugin , we don't need to touch tempest project. | 13:10 |
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| Qiming | am I still alive? | 13:24 |
| haiwei | Qiming, yes | 13:24 |
| elynn | Qiming: Yes. | 13:24 |
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| Qiming | hello, world! | 13:24 |
| haiwei | again | 13:24 |
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| Qiming | okay, ping you tomorrow morning 10am bejing time? | 13:24 |
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| haiwei | ok, I will draw a graph and mail to you | 13:24 |
| Qiming | we can have a quick call on this | 13:24 |
| Qiming | thanks | 13:25 |
| haiwei | I am fine with it | 13:25 |
| Qiming | my whole afternoon is about ...s..h...i..t meeting | 13:25 |
| Yanyanhu | me too. But I'm only free on Friday | 13:25 |
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| Yanyanhu | have visa review on Thursday | 13:25 |
| Qiming | oh, xinhui sent me a text this evening | 13:25 |
| Yanyanhu | Qiming, our patent review is on wednesday? | 13:26 |
| Qiming | she wants me to talk to vmware chief architect about senlin | 13:26 |
| Qiming | will do that on Friday morning | 13:26 |
| haiwei | so your budget is ok, Yanyanhu? | 13:26 |
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| Yanyanhu | haiwei, yes, but I'm a little worried about the visa | 13:26 |
| Qiming | will update you if we have some outcomes from the discussion | 13:26 |
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| haiwei | I am also waiting for the visa | 13:26 |
| Qiming | #topic newton work items | 13:27 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "newton work items (Meeting topic: senlin)" | 13:27 | |
| Qiming | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/senlin-newton-workitems | 13:27 |
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| Yanyanhu | if the application go into administrative processing, it costs at least 3 weeks... | 13:27 |
| Qiming | I pinged china mobile, hopefully we can schedule a meeting on scalability testing and experience sharing | 13:27 |
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| Yanyanhu | Qiming, cool | 13:28 |
| Yanyanhu | that's very helpful | 13:28 |
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| Qiming | elynn, tempest infra is ready? | 13:28 |
| elynn | yes | 13:28 |
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| Qiming | removing line 8 | 13:28 |
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| elynn | Initial patch is ready for review. | 13:29 |
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| elynn | Just feel free to +-1 | 13:29 |
| elynn | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/295647/ | 13:29 |
| Qiming | did I +2 it? | 13:29 |
| elynn | Not yet. | 13:29 |
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| Qiming | ah, will check again | 13:29 |
| Qiming | I think Mark's suggestion is a good one | 13:30 |
| elynn | The rest of it would be move the functional tests to it and add negative tests. | 13:30 |
| Qiming | was waiting for your response | 13:30 |
| elynn | Qiming: Yes, but I'm haven't find a way to generate a tempest config file... | 13:30 |
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| Qiming | that is easy | 13:31 |
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| Qiming | just a separate conf file for oslo.config generator | 13:31 |
| Qiming | then you specify where the output will be placed | 13:31 |
| Qiming | check the tools/ subdir | 13:31 |
| Qiming | there is the conf file for senlin as a whole | 13:32 |
| elynn | If we generate it under senlin repo, can I get the options from tempest? | 13:32 |
| Qiming | for tempest, you may need just one or two modules I believe | 13:32 |
| Qiming | you can try that, not 100% sure | 13:32 |
| elynn | well, I will have to try. | 13:33 |
| haiwei | what options? | 13:33 |
| elynn | Will seek your help if you have time :) | 13:33 |
| Qiming | anyway we will have dependency on tempest because we are using its plugin/lib | 13:33 |
| Qiming | so we can certainly reference its module when generating conf file | 13:33 |
| Qiming | #action Elynn to sync with Qiming on tempest conf file generation | 13:34 |
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| elynn | But I don't see other project add tempest to their requirements.txt. | 13:34 |
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| Qiming | since xinhui is not online today, we can skip the health management part | 13:34 |
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| Qiming | it should be in test-requirements.txt | 13:35 |
| Qiming | we do have 'from tempest import blablah' right? | 13:35 |
| elynn | Oh, I see... | 13:35 |
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| elynn | Will update my patch :) | 13:35 |
| Qiming | xinhui told me that she is looking into the fencing support | 13:35 |
| Qiming | hopefully she can make some progress this coming week | 13:36 |
| Yanyanhu | elynn, Qiming, can we have a f2f talk tomorrow to sync our understanding on tempest and rally? | 13:36 |
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| Qiming | +1 from me | 13:36 |
| Yanyanhu | or a call | 13:36 |
| elynn | Morning or afternoon are both ok for me Yanyanhu. | 13:36 |
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| Qiming | maybe starbucks time again? | 13:37 |
| elynn | But noon is not... | 13:37 |
| Yanyanhu | bingo | 13:37 |
| Yanyanhu | oh... | 13:37 |
| Yanyanhu | ok, let me try to arrange a phone call tomorrow morning | 13:37 |
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| Qiming | just allocated 10am-11am to haiwei | 13:37 |
| Yanyanhu | maybe at 10:30 am? | 13:37 |
| elynn | Have a training at 12~13 oclock. | 13:37 |
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| Qiming | my whole afternoon was occupied as well | 13:38 |
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| Qiming | then 9am? | 13:38 |
| Yanyanhu | a little early for me... | 13:38 |
| Yanyanhu | maybe 11:00 to 11:20? | 13:38 |
| elynn | 9 is ok for me. | 13:38 |
| Yanyanhu | just after the call with haiwei | 13:38 |
| elynn | I don't think it will take much time. | 13:38 |
| Qiming | that's fine | 13:38 |
| Yanyanhu | since I will also join that call as well | 13:38 |
| elynn | Okay | 13:39 |
| Yanyanhu | just a quick talk will be ok | 13:39 |
| Qiming | I suggest we spend more time on studying rally | 13:39 |
| Yanyanhu | Qiming, sure, just try to sync our understanding | 13:39 |
| Qiming | before the meeting to make the meetings more efficient | 13:39 |
| Qiming | but anyway | 13:39 |
| Qiming | 11:00am okay for me | 13:39 |
| Yanyanhu | ok | 13:39 |
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| Qiming | no documentation progress update from me | 13:40 |
| Qiming | API microversioning is already in | 13:40 |
| Qiming | cschulz, any thing to share from you? | 13:41 |
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| cschulz | Yes, | 13:41 |
| Qiming | semi-autoscaling and zaqar support | 13:41 |
| cschulz | I've gotten through the IBM administration stuff to contribute. So can do that now. | 13:41 |
| Qiming | \o/ | 13:42 |
| cschulz | Been working with Zaqar some. to become familiar. | 13:42 |
| elynn | That's great! | 13:42 |
| cschulz | I'd like to have a talk with you about contribution. Can we have a call? | 13:42 |
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| Qiming | yes | 13:42 |
| cschulz | Choose a time I'll be available. | 13:42 |
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| Qiming | sure, feel free to schedule a call :) | 13:43 |
| cschulz | OK. Your morning OK? | 13:43 |
| Qiming | not tomorrow | 13:43 |
| Qiming | you can check my calendar availability | 13:43 |
| cschulz | OK Thurs. maybe. | 13:43 |
| Qiming | Thusday morning good for me | 13:44 |
| Qiming | #topic open discussions | 13:44 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open discussions (Meeting topic: senlin)" | 13:44 | |
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| Qiming | any thing, from anyone? | 13:45 |
| Qiming | we have 15 minutes to complain about visa now, ;) | 13:45 |
| Yanyanhu | ... | 13:46 |
| haiwei | hi, guys, I want to quit earlier today, just got a cold | 13:46 |
| elynn | ...Hope I can pass... | 13:46 |
| Yanyanhu | haiwei, have a good rest | 13:46 |
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| Yanyanhu | elynn, me too | 13:46 |
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| Qiming | sure, haiwei, good night | 13:46 |
| haiwei | i am worrying visa tooo | 13:46 |
| Qiming | it's late for you | 13:46 |
| haiwei | see u | 13:46 |
| Yanyanhu | haiwei, it should be ok for U I think | 13:46 |
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| haiwei | :) | 13:46 |
| elynn | haiwei: have a good night | 13:46 |
| haiwei | 88 | 13:46 |
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| Yanyanhu | bye | 13:47 |
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| Yanyanhu | I'm little worried because my college | 13:47 |
| Yanyanhu | anyway, good luck for me | 13:47 |
| Qiming | just tell them you are from beihang, not BUAA | 13:47 |
| Yanyanhu | and for elynn as well :) | 13:47 |
| elynn | good luck for us | 13:47 |
| Yanyanhu | yes, I write it in my resume | 13:47 |
| Qiming | elynn has the same problem? | 13:47 |
| Yanyanhu | but they know it, you know | 13:48 |
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| Yanyanhu | he doesn't :) | 13:48 |
| elynn | No, my university is not that good :P | 13:48 |
| Qiming | Pehang | 13:48 |
| Yanyanhu | sigh... | 13:48 |
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| Qiming | seriously, anything else you want to talk about? | 13:49 |
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| Yanyanhu | nope from me | 13:50 |
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| elynn | Is newton starts? | 13:50 |
| cschulz | Nothing here | 13:50 |
| Qiming | we can call it a day if no | 13:50 |
| Qiming | yes, master is already about newton | 13:50 |
| Qiming | this week is the last one before mitaka release | 13:50 |
| Qiming | thanks gusy | 13:51 |
| Qiming | guys | 13:51 |
| elynn | ok, got it | 13:51 |
| Qiming | #endmeeting | 13:51 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 13:51 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Apr 5 13:51:18 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 13:51 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/senlin/2016/senlin.2016-04-05-13.00.html | 13:51 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/senlin/2016/senlin.2016-04-05-13.00.txt | 13:51 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/senlin/2016/senlin.2016-04-05-13.00.log.html | 13:51 |
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| AndroUser | hello | 13:52 |
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| dell_ | hello | 14:01 |
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| saggi | hey | 14:03 |
| saggi | sorry | 14:03 |
| gampel | hi | 14:03 |
| xiangxinyong456 | hi | 14:03 |
| saggi | was in the wrong room by mistake | 14:03 |
| saggi | #startmeeting smaug | 14:03 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Apr 5 14:03:24 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is saggi. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 14:03 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 14:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: smaug)" | 14:03 | |
| Zhongjun | Hi | 14:03 |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'smaug' | 14:03 |
| yuval | hi | 14:03 |
| zengchen | hi, everyone | 14:03 |
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| zhonghua-lee | hi | 14:03 |
| saggi | how is everybody | 14:03 |
| saggi | ? | 14:03 |
| chenying_ | hi | 14:03 |
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| saggi | Are we waiting for anyone? | 14:04 |
| zhonghua-lee | fine | 14:04 |
| gampel | Hi everyone | 14:04 |
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| zengchen | is yinwei online? | 14:05 |
| xiangxinyong | hello | 14:05 |
| saggi | with two accounts | 14:05 |
| saggi | I pinged her | 14:06 |
| saggi | Let's start | 14:06 |
| saggi | #topic Announcements | 14:06 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Announcements (Meeting topic: smaug)" | 14:06 | |
| saggi | API is finally in | 14:07 |
| zengchen | great! | 14:07 |
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| gampel | :) | 14:07 |
| saggi | But there are still some issues. Will have fixes for it up today. | 14:07 |
| gampel | we still need to merge the operation log API | 14:07 |
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| saggi | I will have updates for that up too | 14:08 |
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| chenying_ | There are some comments about the operation log api | 14:08 |
| saggi | That's it for announcements just wanted to celebrate :) | 14:08 |
| saggi | #topic Operation Log | 14:08 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Operation Log (Meeting topic: smaug)" | 14:08 | |
| gampel | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/298060/ | 14:09 |
| saggi | About the operation log. I saw the comments. | 14:09 |
| xiangxinyong | saggi, i submit some comments in this agenda | 14:09 |
| xiangxinyong | Does it include protect with schedule, protect without schedule and delete? | 14:09 |
| saggi | Without schedule there will be no operation. | 14:10 |
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| saggi | You will just track the checkpoint. | 14:10 |
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| chenying_ | IMO operation log is created when call protect/delete rpc interface. | 14:10 |
| saggi | Since checkpoints have built in progress information. | 14:10 |
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| chenying_ | checkpoints have built in progress information YES. | 14:11 |
| gampel | So we do not include the checkpoint ID created in the log | 14:11 |
| saggi | The log of a protect operation should include the checkpoint it created. | 14:11 |
| saggi | And delete should have all the checkpoints it deleted. | 14:12 |
| chenying_ | what about delete action? | 14:12 |
| xiangxinyong | saggi, we think we need to create a operation log in the protect and delete action | 14:12 |
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| saggi | but after a protect\delete request is made the information is tracked on the entity. This is because the entities can all be scheduled independently. | 14:12 |
| saggi | Inside the checkpoint? | 14:13 |
| saggi | It will have to be in the bank | 14:13 |
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| yinweimac | hi, sorry for late | 14:13 |
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| saggi | chenying: We will need to think about it. | 14:13 |
| gampel | Hi yinwei | 14:13 |
| xiangxinyong | But when we restore a checkpoint and delete a checkpoint, how to express it? | 14:14 |
| gampel | I think on delete we need to add some metadata of the deleted checkpoint | 14:14 |
| saggi | We do that. | 14:14 |
| saggi | Apart from changing it's status | 14:14 |
| saggi | But we don't have logs now. Just changed state. | 14:14 |
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| saggi | Since logs are very complicated to do on an object store. | 14:15 |
| xiangxinyong | saggi: do you consider to add a indepent operation log to show the progress? | 14:15 |
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| xiangxinyong | saggi: we think the checkpoint status is different form the protect and delete or restore | 14:15 |
| xiangxinyong | what's your opinion? | 14:16 |
| saggi | xiangxinyong: It also contains failure information and progress about each resource. | 14:16 |
| gampel | whats the difference ? | 14:16 |
| saggi | but it doesn't contain a message log. | 14:16 |
| xiangxinyong | because the protect and delete and restore are a workflow | 14:16 |
| xiangxinyong | the protect and delete should have a workflow like restore | 14:17 |
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| xiangxinyong | checkpoint is just a target | 14:17 |
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| gampel | what else do you think we should report other then status and % progress per resource | 14:17 |
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| saggi | We also put error information | 14:18 |
| xiangxinyong | when we protect a checkpoint and delete a checkpoint at the same time, | 14:18 |
| chenying_ | when is operation log db data created? before a protect\delete action rpc request? | 14:19 |
| xiangxinyong | it is diffult to disguish the status | 14:19 |
| gampel | xiangxinyong: the UI could do the match of the operation log and the operation status metadata in the checkpoint | 14:19 |
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| gampel | The checkpoint will be locked by the protect and you will not be able to delete it until it is done ? | 14:20 |
| saggi | I think we should take it offline. chenying and xiangxinyong please write an email explaining what use cases are not covered and we will try and converge on a solution. If we see it requires more planning we will schedule a meeting just for this. OK? | 14:20 |
| gampel | sound good to me | 14:20 |
| saggi | You could also comment on the operation log patches if you think it's relevant there | 14:20 |
| saggi | chenying, xiangxinyong: ok? | 14:20 |
| chenying_ | Ok I will review the patch. | 14:20 |
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| xiangxinyong | ok. saggi. | 14:21 |
| saggi | great! | 14:21 |
| gampel | we found today we are missing name in the protactable API | 14:21 |
| saggi | gampel: I am sending a patch for it later today | 14:21 |
| chenying_ | Let me see | 14:21 |
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| saggi | for the API | 14:21 |
| saggi | not the actual implementation | 14:22 |
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| Guest13879 | #openstack-meeting | 14:22 |
| saggi | We are also missing the API to get dependencies. | 14:22 |
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| gampel | Ok good we found that it missing today reviewing the UI with xiangxinyong | 14:22 |
| saggi | xiangxinyong also commented on the dependencies api missing. | 14:23 |
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| saggi | #topic Protectables status | 14:23 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Protectables status (Meeting topic: smaug)" | 14:23 | |
| yuval | Regarding protectables: | 14:23 |
| yuval | we already have merged server, image, volume protectables | 14:23 |
| yuval | still missing: network and project protectable | 14:23 |
| yinweimac | yuval, will you address the image ,volume protectable bug? | 14:24 |
| yuval | yinweimac: what bug? | 14:24 |
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| yinweimac | the dangling volume and image issue, I mean | 14:24 |
| gampel | which bug can you sjare the link | 14:24 |
| gampel | share | 14:24 |
| yinweimac | I haven't fired the bug, but I suppose we have discussed this issue | 14:24 |
| gampel | Ok | 14:25 |
| yinweimac | let's confirm this is an issue first | 14:25 |
| yinweimac | yuval, what do you think? | 14:25 |
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| yuval | are you speaking about volume and image which are unattached to servers? | 14:26 |
| yinweimac | yes | 14:26 |
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| gampel | I think that we are missing the project protactabole , but what yinwei mean is that when the parent is projcet we shoudl return all the resources in vol , image etc | 14:27 |
| yinweimac | but user chooses project as protection plan resources | 14:27 |
| yuval | would that be fixed once we will add a project protectable and add the dependency? | 14:27 |
| yinweimac | I don't think so | 14:27 |
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| yinweimac | it's image and volume protectable business | 14:27 |
| gampel | we need to add the dependency in all the other protectable | 14:27 |
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| yuval | yinweimac: I understand | 14:28 |
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| yinweimac | just test parent is project, and return any images/volumes under this project will do | 14:28 |
| yinweimac | it would be a simple fix | 14:29 |
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| yuval | I'll handle the project protectable and dangling image/volume | 14:29 |
| yinweimac | ok, so we have confirmed this will be fixed by yuval, right? | 14:29 |
| yinweimac | thanks! | 14:29 |
| yuval | who will handle the network protectable? | 14:29 |
| gampel | I think that we need to decide if this is this is the desire flow (select project return all the resources in that project ) | 14:29 |
| yinweimac | why not? | 14:30 |
| saggi | It might be too cluttered for the user. It's a UI issue in the end but maybe we would want to group by type under project. What do you think xiangxinyong? | 14:30 |
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| saggi | If the user has thousands of volumes it might just be too much. | 14:31 |
| yinweimac | it depends | 14:31 |
| yuval | saggi: this affects rest api as well as UI | 14:31 |
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| yinweimac | user could only choose some volumes | 14:31 |
| gampel | It means that if you select the Project you will protect ever thing | 14:31 |
| yinweimac | like user only choose volumes by tag | 14:32 |
| xiangxinyong | saggi: we can get the resource step by step | 14:32 |
| yinweimac | yes, if you select the project we protect everythin | 14:32 |
| yinweimac | if you select some of the volumes, we only protect them | 14:32 |
| xiangxinyong | saggi:we can also get the resouce in a time | 14:32 |
| gampel | I think that we should in the UI make it a special option to select the all project resources | 14:32 |
| saggi | The problem is that if you don't protect the project you loose tenant information. | 14:32 |
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| gampel | We should all ways protect keystone as dependency | 14:33 |
| yinweimac | why? I saw chenying made checkpoint under tenant | 14:33 |
| saggi | Like username\password which you might want in the restored environment. | 14:33 |
| xiangxinyong | gampel: now if select a root keystone project, the all dependent resources will be selected | 14:34 |
| gampel | But only if it is selected in the tree explicitly then it will be added as you said | 14:34 |
| saggi | What do we even back up in project? | 14:34 |
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| gampel | But if we do not select it it will be added as dependency of any resource | 14:34 |
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| gampel | Not sure probably the Region info | 14:35 |
| saggi | Maybe we would make it an empty backup and have any real information as child of project. This means selecting the actual project actually means back up everything. | 14:35 |
| yinweimac | why do we need that | 14:35 |
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| gampel | you mean have keystone resource and Project as two different items in the tree ? | 14:36 |
| yinweimac | the keystone info could be input param as the restore api | 14:36 |
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| yinweimac | I mean why do we need save keystone info? for restore? | 14:36 |
| saggi | Since we don't see any information on the project we could leave things as they are since there is no reason to backup a project other than to backup everything. If we find information we want we could have it as a child of project. This means we don't have to change anything now. What do you guys think? | 14:37 |
| saggi | yinweimac: Yes, maybe there is tenant information we want to restore. I can't think of something now but I think my suggestion solves both cases. | 14:37 |
| gampel | I agree who is going to do the Keystone protection plugin and investigate this | 14:37 |
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| gampel | keystone/Project | 14:38 |
| yinweimac | confirm: select a project will or will not protect all resources under it? | 14:38 |
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| gampel | No i think the other way around | 14:39 |
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| xiangxinyong | i think it will not | 14:39 |
| yinweimac | then how to choose all resources of a project to be protected? | 14:40 |
| saggi | What I suggested means that it does protect all resources. | 14:40 |
| gampel | if I understand @saggi suggestion is that when selecting a project all the resources in the projcet will be backed up | 14:40 |
| yuval | I understood that also | 14:40 |
| saggi | I just suggested that if we see information we need for restore we will create child resource for it. | 14:40 |
| gampel | Assuming we do not need to protect any think for Project | 14:41 |
| yinweimac | ok | 14:41 |
| gampel | who is going to do the Keystone protection plugin and investigate this ? | 14:41 |
| saggi | keystone::project -> keystone::ZoneInfo | 14:41 |
| gampel | yes | 14:41 |
| yinweimac | let me check it with chenzeng&chenhuayi | 14:41 |
| saggi | Which will leave all behavior normalized | 14:41 |
| gampel | Ok great | 14:41 |
| yinweimac | but we need confirm more details about this | 14:42 |
| yinweimac | what to be protected here | 14:42 |
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| gampel | yes that's the research need to be done | 14:42 |
| yinweimac | confirm again: select a project will protect all resources under it | 14:42 |
| gampel | yes | 14:42 |
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| yinweimac | so yuval will still adress the bug there? | 14:43 |
| yuval | the dangling volume/image? yes | 14:43 |
| saggi | yes | 14:43 |
| yinweimac | ok | 14:43 |
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| yinweimac | network protectable needs to be reworked | 14:43 |
| yinweimac | but wangliuan is working on integration test of protection service, chenzeng will help here | 14:44 |
| yinweimac | and based on our latest discussion, the complexity is in network protection plugin | 14:44 |
| gampel | chenzeng need to finish the operation engine patches | 14:44 |
| gampel | they are blocking some of the API patches | 14:44 |
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| zhonghua-lee | yinweimac:it seems chenhuayi works on network protectable | 14:45 |
| yinweimac | ok, chenhuayi is willing to help here | 14:45 |
| yinweimac | yes | 14:45 |
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| zhonghua-lee | but he is not here now | 14:45 |
| yinweimac | huayi contacted with me today | 14:45 |
| saggi | It looks like we moved to tactical stuff. Lets move to the next subject. | 14:45 |
| yinweimac | I told him I still need confirm details with saggi and eranl | 14:45 |
| saggi | yinweimac: I trust you'll coordinate with everyone about the network protectable | 14:45 |
| yinweimac | thanks | 14:46 |
| yinweimac | will try | 14:46 |
| gampel | thank you | 14:46 |
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| saggi | #topic CI | 14:46 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "CI (Meeting topic: smaug)" | 14:46 | |
| saggi | Who is working on it? | 14:46 |
| yuval | I submitted a patch to make smaug python3 compatible | 14:47 |
| gampel | I think we need fullstack that will do protect and check the status on the checkpoint | 14:47 |
| chenying_ | you mean integration testing? | 14:47 |
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| gampel | yes fullstack on the api level | 14:47 |
| xiangxinyong | i agree | 14:47 |
| saggi | chenying: automatic tests on gerrit | 14:47 |
| yinweimac | liuan is working on the manual integration test, but protection service only | 14:48 |
| gampel | who ever is going to work on it I can show example how we did it in other projects | 14:48 |
| gampel | we could start with protection only | 14:48 |
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| chenying_ | I can work on it. | 14:49 |
| chenying_ | Maybe need some help from eran. | 14:49 |
| saggi | Do you have any spare time? | 14:49 |
| gampel | no problem lets talk about it offline tomorrow morning | 14:49 |
| yinweimac | Liuan could work for it as well | 14:49 |
| saggi | Great | 14:49 |
| yinweimac | I will ask him | 14:49 |
| yinweimac | tommorrow | 14:50 |
| saggi | Let's make it a point to check for progress next bi-weekly | 14:50 |
| saggi | #topic Progress report | 14:50 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Progress report (Meeting topic: smaug)" | 14:50 | |
| gampel | xiangxinyong: will you be able to share screen-cast of the UI so every one could comment | 14:50 |
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| saggi | Just in time gampel | 14:50 |
| xiangxinyong | by email? | 14:50 |
| xiangxinyong | gampel: or some ways? | 14:51 |
| gampel | You could sent it to devstack mailing list | 14:51 |
| saggi | xiangxinyong has done a lot of work on the UI. We would like as many people to tell us what they think about it. | 14:51 |
| xiangxinyong | ok | 14:51 |
| saggi | xiangxinyong, is it in a state where people can test it locally? | 14:51 |
| zengchen | i am updating the time trigger and two apis. this week i hope they can be merged. | 14:51 |
| gampel | so we could get feedback from the OpenStack community | 14:51 |
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| xiangxinyong | saggi: i will do as soon as possible | 14:52 |
| gampel | Thanks | 14:52 |
| saggi | xiangxinyong: great! | 14:52 |
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| xiangxinyong | <gampel> we found today we are missing name in the protactable API | 14:53 |
| xiangxinyong | <saggi> xiangxinyong also commented on the dependencies api missing. | 14:53 |
| xiangxinyong | Thanks gampel and saggi. | 14:53 |
| xiangxinyong | They are two important functions. | 14:53 |
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| gampel | Please everyone help with the reviews of all the open patches | 14:53 |
| saggi | xiangxinyong: Will have API patches for that later today. | 14:53 |
| xiangxinyong | thanks | 14:53 |
| saggi | # Open Discussion | 14:53 |
| xiangxinyong | by the way. i have another questions to discuss it | 14:53 |
| xiangxinyong | http://paste.openstack.org/show/492976/ | 14:53 |
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| gampel | yes | 14:54 |
| xiangxinyong | i think we need to add Parameters to every resource in the create plan api | 14:54 |
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| yuval | what does 'consistency' mean in that context? | 14:54 |
| xiangxinyong | please take a look at it.http://paste.openstack.org/show/492976/ | 14:54 |
| xiangxinyong | eran and saggi, do you agree? | 14:55 |
| saggi | xiangxinyong: currently parameters can also be defined for a type | 14:55 |
| gampel | You mean local if set and global as override ? | 14:55 |
| chenying_ | If it is affirmed, I will update the patch. | 14:55 |
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| saggi | xiangxinyong: The reason we didn't do it originally is because we thought the UI for it will be confusing. | 14:56 |
| xiangxinyong | because we need to edit every resource's parameters in the ui | 14:56 |
| gampel | or do you mean moving them into the resource >> | 14:56 |
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| xiangxinyong | yeah, move them into the resources | 14:57 |
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| gampel | saggi: why not ? | 14:57 |
| xiangxinyong | because we need specify parameters for evevy resource | 14:57 |
| saggi | xiangxinyong: Currently defining it outside of the resource make them default for auto discovered resources. | 14:57 |
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| chenying_ | IMO I do not think every resource has its own parameters. | 14:57 |
| gampel | But if we set some thing for a spesific resource it should be set there | 14:58 |
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| xiangxinyong | saggi: you mean the outside parameters are the default value | 14:58 |
| xiangxinyong | i agree | 14:59 |
| saggi | xiangxinyong: Yes | 14:59 |
| xiangxinyong | but we need specify in the speicail resouces. is it right? | 14:59 |
| gampel | It seem we need the parameters in the resource if selectd and outside as default | 14:59 |
| saggi | xiangxinyong: And also you will need to do it a bit differently. since you can't put it inside the resource map since it breaks the type signiture. | 14:59 |
| yinweimac | times out | 14:59 |
| saggi | yes | 14:59 |
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| gampel | we are running out of time | 15:00 |
| gampel | saggi will you define this for xiangxinyong: | 15:00 |
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| saggi | xiangxinyong: The idea is good but needs some adjustments. | 15:00 |
| xiangxinyong | could we discuss it in our chanel? | 15:00 |
| yinweimac | let's switch back to smaug channel | 15:00 |
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| saggi | #endmeeting | 15:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 15:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Apr 5 15:00:27 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 15:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/smaug/2016/smaug.2016-04-05-14.03.html | 15:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/smaug/2016/smaug.2016-04-05-14.03.txt | 15:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/smaug/2016/smaug.2016-04-05-14.03.log.html | 15:00 |
| gampel | sure thanks everyone | 15:00 |
| xiangxinyong | thanks | 15:00 |
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| mmedvede | #startmeeting third-party | 17:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Apr 5 17:01:28 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is mmedvede. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 17:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 17:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: third-party)" | 17:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'third_party' | 17:01 |
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| ja3 | ola | 17:02 |
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| mmedvede | ja3: hey | 17:02 |
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| ja3 | morning/afternoon sir | 17:02 |
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| mmedvede | who else is here for third-party CI working group meeting? | 17:02 |
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| asselin_ | hi | 17:03 |
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| mmedvede | hi asselin_ , sorry to hear that you have conflict with the meeting | 17:04 |
| mmedvede | #topic Announcements | 17:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Announcements (Meeting topic: third-party)" | 17:04 | |
| mmedvede | Gerrit IP change is still happening on April 11 | 17:04 |
| mmedvede | Gerrit IP Change: http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2016-March/088985.html | 17:04 |
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| mmedvede | #topic CI Watch | 17:06 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "CI Watch (Meeting topic: third-party)" | 17:06 | |
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| mmedvede | Unit tests are slow-going. I did not push anything for review there. Currently working on getting some fixtures for gerrit event stream added | 17:07 |
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| mmedvede | i.e. it is now possible to run a test with fake gerrit listener | 17:07 |
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| mmedvede | the problem is that current test would have to directly examine resulting records in database, which is marginally useful | 17:08 |
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| mmedvede | any questions? | 17:09 |
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| mmedvede | #topic Common-CI Solution | 17:09 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Common-CI Solution (Meeting topic: third-party)" | 17:09 | |
| mmedvede | asselin_: anything to discuss here? | 17:10 |
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| asselin_ | no updates from me | 17:10 |
| mmedvede | I did not see many patches come in recently | 17:10 |
| mmedvede | ok, moving on :) | 17:10 |
| mmedvede | #topic Open Discussion | 17:10 |
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| *** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: third-party)" | 17:10 | |
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| mmedvede | asselin_: would you like me to chair for you while you have the conflict? | 17:12 |
| asselin_ | mmedvede, yes, that would be great | 17:12 |
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| mmedvede | asselin_: ok, would do | 17:13 |
| asselin_ | thank you | 17:13 |
| ja3 | we've started to trigger our CI off of nova now, running full tempest instead of only smoke. still not ready to vote, tuning slave build times and such. | 17:13 |
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| ja3 | ...and my log server request is still going nowhere. | 17:14 |
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| mmedvede | ja3: that is unfortunate | 17:14 |
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| mmedvede | ja3: how long does your current test take? | 17:15 |
| ja3 | well it's "lack of attention" nowhere, rather than "request denied" nowhere, so it could turn on a dime | 17:15 |
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| ja3 | they're getting close to on-par with upstream. bob has been seriously flogging it. | 17:16 |
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| mmedvede | what matters to be able to report/vote is test reliability and stability. Initially you can ask for non-voting commenting permissions to validate how reliable your CI is | 17:18 |
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| ja3 | true, but we don't actually need any permissions to compare our results against upstream. | 17:20 |
| mmedvede | ja3: so once you get your logserver, you should be able to start commenting non-voting | 17:20 |
| ja3 | assuming we're stable enough, yes | 17:20 |
| mmedvede | ja3: right, but if your CI is invisible, it is harder to collect stats | 17:21 |
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| ja3 | is anyone interested in collecting stats on our CI, when we don't think it's stable/reliable yet? I would not think so, but I'm willing to be wrong if there's some larger context I'm not grokking. | 17:21 |
| ja3 | I'd think making it visible is basically just generating spam for onlookers, and I consider that impolite. | 17:22 |
| ja3 | ...that's my current thinking at least. If I'm dragging knuckles w/o good reason, slap me around. | 17:23 |
| mmedvede | agree, it needs to be reasonably not broken :) | 17:23 |
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| mmedvede | ja3: also if you follow the guidelines at | 17:25 |
| mmedvede | #link Third Party Testing http://docs.openstack.org/infra/system-config/third_party.html | 17:25 |
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| mmedvede | one step is to add your account to gerrit group that should prevent spam emails | 17:26 |
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| mmedvede | ok, any more topics? | 17:28 |
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| mmedvede | thanks for attending | 17:30 |
| mmedvede | #endmeeting | 17:30 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 17:30 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Apr 5 17:30:20 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 17:30 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/third_party/2016/third_party.2016-04-05-17.01.html | 17:30 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/third_party/2016/third_party.2016-04-05-17.01.txt | 17:30 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/third_party/2016/third_party.2016-04-05-17.01.log.html | 17:30 |
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| eil397 | thanks | 17:30 |
| mmedvede | eil397: hi, were you here for the meeting? | 17:31 |
| eil397 | last ten minutes | 17:31 |
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| mmedvede | are you setting up a CI? please introduce yourself on the next meeting if you would be here :) All CI operators are welcome | 17:33 |
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| eil397 | thanks. I will do next time. I'm working for internal CI. | 17:34 |
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| eil397 | not sure this internal CI will be classified as third party CI. but I'm interesting in any CI. | 17:35 |
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| mmedvede | eil397: you would have similar problems and might also have solutions that would be useful to others. So that counts | 17:36 |
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| eil397 | mmedvede: totally agree | 17:36 |
| mmedvede | eil397: as long as you are using similar tools (zuul/nodepool/jenkins) | 17:36 |
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| eil397 | I was using zuul/nodepool/jenkins. Few months ago I've cloned community's ci system (infra) . few components of it. | 17:37 |
| eil397 | just to show what kind of added value it can bring. | 17:38 |
| eil397 | for internal teams | 17:38 |
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| mmedvede | eil397: do you mind joining #openstack-third-party-ci channel, we can discuss things there (it is logged). | 17:39 |
| mmedvede | eil397: I am using the infra both for third-party OpenStack CI and for internal CI | 17:39 |
| mmedvede | it is very flexible | 17:39 |
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| mmedvede | eil397: do you have it working already, i.e. you can start jenkins jobs on patches? | 17:41 |
| eil397 | mmedvede: thanks. I would like to join. | 17:41 |
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| eil397 | mmedvede: it was working. main processes: from event in gerrit to testing jobs and package publishing and with slaves created by nodepool. | 17:42 |
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| mmedvede | eil397: sounds like you have it figured out | 17:46 |
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| eil397 | mmedvede: infra team did great job. puppet automation works great. very clear design. | 17:52 |
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| mmedvede | agree, it is fairly reusable with a few minor tweaks | 17:53 |
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| stevemar | keystone meeting ping: ajayaa, amakarov, ayoung, breton, browne, crinkle, claudiub, davechen, david8hu, dolphm, dstanek, edmondsw, gyee, henrynash, hogepodge, htruta, jamielennox, joesavak, jorge_munoz, knikolla, lbragstad, lhcheng, marekd, MaxPC, morganfainberg, nkinder, raildo, rodrigods, rderose, roxanaghe, samleon, samueldmq, shaleh, stevemar, tjcocozz, tsymanczyk, topol, vivekd, wanghong, xek | 17:59 |
| rodrigods | o/ | 17:59 |
| amakarov | o/ | 17:59 |
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| knikolla | o/ | 17:59 |
| stevemar | #startmeeting keystone | 17:59 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Apr 5 17:59:58 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is stevemar. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 17:59 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 17:59 |
| raildo | o/ | 18:00 |
| stevemar | o/ | 18:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'keystone' | 18:00 |
| roxanaghe | \o | 18:00 |
| bknudson | hi | 18:00 |
| tjcocozz | o/ | 18:00 |
| MaxPC | o/ | 18:00 |
| lbragstad | o/ | 18:00 |
| morgan | O/ | 18:00 |
| crinkle | o/ | 18:00 |
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| shaleh | \o | 18:01 |
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| stevemar | agenda: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/KeystoneMeeting | 18:01 |
| dolphm | \o/ | 18:01 |
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| stevemar | not much on the agenda today | 18:01 |
| breton | o/ | 18:01 |
| tsymanczyk | \o | 18:01 |
| stevemar | assuming there isn't much open disucssion we can cut the meeting short | 18:01 |
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| stevemar | #topic Enforcing the code of conduct | 18:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Enforcing the code of conduct (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:02 | |
| stevemar | ayoung: ^ | 18:02 |
| * stevemar pokes ayoung | 18:02 | |
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| ayoung | hey | 18:02 |
| stevemar | there you are! | 18:03 |
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| bknudson | I hope ayoung isn't going to kick me out of openstack | 18:03 |
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| ayoung | so...had an interesting exchange last week | 18:03 |
| lbragstad | that's putting it lightly | 18:03 |
| breton | does poking comply with code of conduct? | 18:03 |
| ayoung | we had someone in the chatroom asking for help, morgan was doing his part, and I chimed in | 18:03 |
| ayoung | and proceeded to get abused | 18:03 |
| stevemar | breton: :) | 18:03 |
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| dstanek | did i miss something good last week? | 18:03 |
| ayoung | now...if it is going to happen to anyone, I want it to be me | 18:03 |
| morgan | dstanek: not good. | 18:03 |
| ayoung | I think we all know that I can take it. | 18:04 |
| ayoung | But... | 18:04 |
| ayoung | its not about me. | 18:04 |
| morgan | No one should have to take it | 18:04 |
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| morgan | Even if they can. | 18:04 |
| ayoung | And I think that I made a mistake in letting the other person off. | 18:04 |
| ayoung | Its about the community | 18:04 |
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| ayoung | and the environment in the chat room, and the project | 18:04 |
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| ayoung | later, stevemar kick banned this person | 18:05 |
| morgan | Fwiw, this incident was also escalated to the foundation (fungi, thingee, and others) | 18:05 |
| morgan | I've been working with them on this front as well. | 18:05 |
| ayoung | so, we were caught unprepared, and, fortunately, no real harm done | 18:05 |
| ayoung | if something like this happens again...here is how I think we should react | 18:05 |
| fungi | yes, a situation to be taken seriously no matter the perceived impact | 18:05 |
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| ayoung | on the first time someone says something that is a personal attack, the conversation stops. | 18:06 |
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| ayoung | We make it point blank clear that this is not the acceptable way to communicate | 18:06 |
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| ayoung | and, it should not be the person attacked responsibility to respond | 18:06 |
| ayoung | it should be the other cores, especially Ops in the room | 18:06 |
| shaleh | sounds like what we teach our kids in school about bullies | 18:07 |
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| dolphm | +1 | 18:07 |
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| shaleh | IOW, reasonable and appropriate | 18:07 |
| topol_ | o/ | 18:07 |
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| bknudson | works for me. | 18:07 |
| lbragstad | ++ | 18:07 |
| ayoung | I got a few people sending me personal messages of support. While I do appreciate that, in retrospect, it would have been better to be public about even that | 18:07 |
| thingee | #link https://www.openstack.org/legal/community-code-of-conduct/ | 18:07 |
| stevemar | fwiw https://www.openstack.org/legal/community-code-of-conduct/ | 18:07 |
| morgan | Dolph, Steve, and I are ops and if none of us are around infra has a the ability to handle these things as well | 18:08 |
| stevemar | doh | 18:08 |
| amakarov | ayoung, ++ had 2 of them this week | 18:08 |
| ayoung | never tell the person that is being attacked that they should be the one to back down or leave, unless they are actively contributing | 18:08 |
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| samueldmq | hi | 18:08 |
| fungi | also unsurprisingly, there was some pattern of escalation. i found another less severe conversation from january i think it was where there were some comments verging on being personal attacks against developers responsible for some patch. if it had been made clear then that it was unacceptable behavior, the individual responsible may not have taken things even further in this more recent incident | 18:08 |
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| ayoung | and, let me be clear, you can always call on me if there is a question | 18:08 |
| stevemar | yeah, let's not try to engage and throw rocks bad | 18:08 |
| stevemar | back* | 18:09 |
| stevemar | just raise a flag to the ops | 18:09 |
| thingee | regardless of how ayoung wanted to handle it, there were several things that hit our code of conduct. I'd rather stop it there and make it clear. | 18:09 |
| morgan | thingee: ++ | 18:09 |
| ayoung | thingee, exactly. | 18:09 |
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| ayoung | And, as a final point, thanks for being such a great community about this. | 18:09 |
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| ayoung | As I said, we were caught unware, which means our responses were unrehersed | 18:09 |
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| ayoung | so, maybe they were a bit slow, but they were the right responses | 18:10 |
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| ayoung | a special kudos to stevemar who had to be the heavy this time. It is a tough thing to do | 18:10 |
| morgan | It thankfully is rare enough in the community. But we will be better about it if something happens again like this | 18:10 |
| fungi | ayoung: (and others who were engaged in that particular exchange) thanks for being level-headed, professional and non-combative | 18:10 |
| stevemar | happy to | 18:10 |
| ayoung | one last point | 18:10 |
| ayoung | its easy to feel sorry for the person that we kick banned | 18:10 |
| ayoung | "oh he was probably a dumb kid" or whatever | 18:10 |
| lbragstad | na - he had it coming | 18:11 |
| thingee | heh your one last point of a final point. :) | 18:11 |
| ayoung | but remember, there are many, many people that get abused and just dissapear | 18:11 |
| ayoung | ok, thats all | 18:11 |
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| * morgan runs to get through airport security. | 18:11 | |
| stevemar | thanks ayoung | 18:11 |
| fungi | the greatest impact is often on others who are simply seeing it unfold, and not directly engaged in the discussion | 18:11 |
| knikolla | ++ | 18:12 |
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| stevemar | alrighty, now for a much more fun topic... testing! | 18:12 |
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| rodrigods | lol | 18:13 |
| stevemar | thanks for chiming in fungi and thingee | 18:13 |
| dstanek | nice...i have 20 minutes left before i have to drop off for a meeting | 18:13 |
| stevemar | #topic Migrate keystone tempest tests into keystone tree | 18:13 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Migrate keystone tempest tests into keystone tree (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:13 | |
| stevemar | rodrigods you have the floor | 18:13 |
| rodrigods | hi guys... just want your feedback about this | 18:13 |
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| rodrigods | should we move everything to our repo? | 18:13 |
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| shaleh | define everything? | 18:13 |
| rodrigods | already have a patch for it: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/301398/ | 18:13 |
| samueldmq | ayoung: thanks for bringing that up | 18:14 |
| rodrigods | shaleh, all keystone API tests | 18:14 |
| shaleh | last time we discussed moving negative tests | 18:14 |
| bknudson | I don't think we should move everything to our repo, since then it can't be part of the defcore or whatever it is. | 18:14 |
| rodrigods | bknudson, how so? | 18:14 |
| ayoung | bknudson, well, what repo? | 18:14 |
| ayoung | keystone server? | 18:14 |
| rodrigods | this is something that is being done by another projects | 18:14 |
| ayoung | or should it be aseparate repo, managed by us | 18:14 |
| ayoung | its like 6K lines | 18:14 |
| dstanek | rodrigods: right, why move more than the negative tests? | 18:14 |
| rodrigods | for example: https://github.com/openstack/ironic/commit/57e3ba1af8c6a939cab18d0255a26f6a1eca0d49 | 18:14 |
| rodrigods | dstanek, so we don't occupy the gate of other projects | 18:15 |
| bknudson | rodrigods: good question. I don't know how defcore works so I can't say that I have any idea what effect this is going to have. | 18:15 |
| knikolla | i'm still confused about the tempest vs /functional/tests | 18:15 |
| breton | maybe it should be broken into several patches | 18:15 |
| bknudson | ayoung: my understanding is that tests need to be in tempest in order to be included in defcore. | 18:15 |
| breton | because reviewing 6k LOC is terrible. | 18:15 |
| ayoung | knikolla, tempest *are* functional tests, just in an external project | 18:15 |
| stevemar | is tempest doing this for all projects? | 18:15 |
| rodrigods | breton, it should be easy to review | 18:16 |
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| rodrigods | stevemar, this is not required | 18:16 |
| knikolla | ayoung, right, and there is a spec to move them inside keystone and outside of tempest | 18:16 |
| dstanek | knikolla: i think this is where we can put our functional tests. tempest didn't want them in their source tree | 18:16 |
| rodrigods | it is just an option | 18:16 |
| rodrigods | i wanted to write new tests for our tempest plugin | 18:16 |
| bknudson | before we approve this there should be a review posted to tempest to remove the tests. | 18:16 |
| rodrigods | i got stuck in copying stuff of tempest (a lot of stuff) | 18:17 |
| rodrigods | then i remembered this was being done by other projects and thought to get your opinion about it | 18:17 |
| rodrigods | maybe move only v3? or move none (just move the configs and clients) | 18:17 |
| dstanek | rodrigods: my push back would be to see what tempest wants in their tests because i can't imagine that they don't want at least the defcore stuff | 18:17 |
| knikolla | i was referring to this: https://github.com/openstack/keystone-specs/blob/master/specs/keystone/ongoing/functional-testing.rst | 18:18 |
| rodrigods | dstanek, agreed | 18:18 |
| ayoung | dstanek, what would you think would be the dividing line between something that was a functional test in keystone vs tempest? | 18:19 |
| rodrigods | so... what should be the approach? copy stuff when needed? | 18:19 |
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| bknudson | why do we need to copy? don't they provide a library? | 18:19 |
| rodrigods | bknudson, is it ok to import their clients over? | 18:20 |
| bknudson | rodrigods: why not? | 18:20 |
| dstanek | ayoung: my understanding what that most of the tests we wanted to do don't fit their roadmap (error conditions, complicated keystone-only flows, etc) | 18:20 |
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| dstanek | rodrigods: yes | 18:20 |
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| ayoung | so we need at least a good chunk of the Tempest tests anyway? | 18:21 |
| rodrigods | if so... i think we only need configs and minor stuff | 18:21 |
| rodrigods | ayoung, i guess we need to move only the negative ones | 18:21 |
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| dstanek | ayoung: nobody seems good at drawing this line. but it seems to be that any negative testing and single project tests (except defcore) are not really wanted | 18:21 |
| rodrigods | btw... tempest-lib is going to be deprecated | 18:21 |
| rodrigods | we should use tempest directly | 18:22 |
| ayoung | I'm tempted to take everything, but put it into a separate repo: keystone-testing | 18:22 |
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| bknudson | I have no idea why tempest came up with admin/v3 tests... makes no sense | 18:22 |
| ayoung | I kindof want our test code to be able to test both server and client, maybe CLI too | 18:22 |
| rodrigods | bknudson, just because was the only place to put the integration tests | 18:22 |
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| breton | bknudson: we regularily get questions about v3 and admin ports/pipeline/api | 18:23 |
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| ayoung | does anyone have a strong opinion that the functional tests should *not* be in a separate, but Keystone team managed, repo? | 18:23 |
| stevemar | i kinda like the idea of a separate repo for testing | 18:23 |
| rodrigods | +1 | 18:24 |
| rodrigods | the only advantage in having them in the same repo | 18:24 |
| rodrigods | is that we can require integration tests | 18:24 |
| rodrigods | for the features | 18:24 |
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| ayoung | rodrigods, so, I would like it to work like this: | 18:24 |
| knikolla | having them in the same repo can test proposed reviews | 18:24 |
| dstanek | we initially decided to keep it in the same repo to make sure their was parity (because v3 tests would go away in favor or functional tests) | 18:24 |
| ayoung | 1. Submite your patch to Keystone. It gets -1 Needs tests | 18:24 |
| knikolla | with new tests | 18:25 |
| ayoung | 2. Submit your patch to test repo. It passes with patched, does not pass with master | 18:25 |
| bknudson | you can test proposed reviews in a separate repo using depends-on. | 18:25 |
| ayoung | these known failures are marked as "pending..." | 18:25 |
| dstanek | and we thought it would be easy to split later as opposed to making infra to work just to undo it if we changed our minds | 18:25 |
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| knikolla | bknudson, right. | 18:25 |
| ayoung | and then, once the patch merges, the tests that failed before are not passing | 18:25 |
| ayoung | er | 18:25 |
| ayoung | are *now* passing | 18:25 |
| rodrigods | (btw... please take a look at https://review.openstack.org/#/c/298696/) | 18:26 |
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| ayoung | its more like double-entry accounting? | 18:26 |
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| rodrigods | ayoung, the tests would need to be merged later or with some skip decorator | 18:26 |
| ayoung | rodrigods, right | 18:26 |
| rodrigods | so we won't move everything, right? | 18:26 |
| ayoung | skip decorator is a good approach, I think? | 18:26 |
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| bknudson | you can use depends-on to show that your tests work with the new code | 18:27 |
| ayoung | dstanek, any opinion? You kindof kicked off this landslide | 18:27 |
| ayoung | bknudson, ++ | 18:27 |
| rderose | o/ | 18:27 |
| ayoung | we should document, but is the overall approach something we can all get behind? | 18:28 |
| rodrigods | this should be clear to all reviewers | 18:28 |
| dstanek | ayoung: not really. i still like the rationale of defering to see if we need to, but i'd be ok adding another repo if we think we need it | 18:28 |
| dstanek | ayoung: we constantly change our minds here :-) | 18:28 |
| bknudson | I'm fine with it in the same repo or a separate repo. | 18:28 |
| rodrigods | not only for the core team and most active ones | 18:28 |
| bknudson | tempest thought that it would work well to have tempest-lib separate and then they had to bring it back in. | 18:28 |
| ayoung | so, the rational for a separate repo is that we can make tests like we used to have for different versions of libraries and servers | 18:28 |
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| stevemar | ayoung: let's make sure all the testing we want to do can be handled by a separate repo | 18:29 |
| bknudson | and it's easy to move the code out to a library from keystone. | 18:29 |
| ayoung | not saying we need 100% backwards compat, but it does make it possible | 18:29 |
| rodrigods | bknudson, +1 | 18:29 |
| samueldmq | separate repo makes dev workflow harder | 18:29 |
| stevemar | not just tempest tests, but keystoneclient functional tests, and keystone functional tests | 18:29 |
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| bknudson | keystoneauth ? | 18:30 |
| bknudson | keystonemiddleware ? | 18:30 |
| rodrigods | #link http://docs.openstack.org/developer/tempest/plugin.html#standalone-plugin-vs-in-repo-plugin | 18:30 |
| ayoung | yep and yep | 18:30 |
| rodrigods | they even have a doc about it :P | 18:30 |
| dstanek | bknudson: right, that's what we said last time. split later if needed instead of doing it because we thought we would need it | 18:30 |
| ayoung | with middleware, we could spin up the echo service | 18:30 |
| stevemar | bknudson: you know it | 18:31 |
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| ayoung | so, I don't want rodrigods spinning his wheels here. We should make a decision of some sort that he can act on. Move the tempest tests into Keystone server? | 18:31 |
| bknudson | so the proposal is a single repo for functional testing of all keystone projects? That's a new one to me. | 18:32 |
| bknudson | I think we should put the tests in keystone for now so we can get started more quickly. | 18:32 |
| rodrigods | we can start requiring to have the integration tests once the gate job is merged | 18:32 |
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| rodrigods | and we see how it goes | 18:32 |
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| stevemar | i'm okay with the tests in keystone for now with the plan to split them later | 18:33 |
| ayoung | OK. And, to be honest, I thimnk I'd like us to just approve the bulk transfer of the tests now, and then do any winnowing by removal | 18:33 |
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| ayoung | I'd rather double cover than have a period with no coverage | 18:33 |
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| bknudson | merge the tests as they are and remove them works for me, too. | 18:33 |
| knikolla | ++ | 18:34 |
| ayoung | rodrigods, any last thoughts? | 18:34 |
| bknudson | not a fan of the potential double maintenance for a while, but hopefully we can get things sorted out quickly enough | 18:34 |
| rodrigods | ayoung, makes sense | 18:34 |
| rodrigods | nope | 18:34 |
| ayoung | stevemar, want to #action that? | 18:35 |
| rodrigods | it is a huge review, but it is easy to review | 18:35 |
| rodrigods | (just need to check the diffs between keystone's and tempest's trees) | 18:35 |
| bknudson | just do a diff to see what changed. | 18:35 |
| rodrigods | the command is in the commit message | 18:35 |
| rodrigods | besides that, only the README | 18:36 |
| stevemar | #action merge the tests as they are and scope out to see if a new repo makes sense | 18:36 |
| knikolla | and documentation | 18:36 |
| rodrigods | i would need to check bknudson's suggestion of importing the clients, instead of copying them | 18:37 |
| rodrigods | or we should copy them? | 18:37 |
| bknudson | rodrigods: ask qa if they think we should copy or not. | 18:37 |
| rodrigods | bknudson, ok | 18:37 |
| * morgan back now through airport security | 18:38 | |
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| ayoung | copy for now, | 18:38 |
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| samueldmq | stevemar: ++ on keeping in keystone for now, and looking at split later | 18:38 |
| ayoung | we could end up with a circular dependency otherwise, no? | 18:38 |
| rodrigods | and... anyone with experience with gate jobs | 18:38 |
| morgan | stevemar: ++ | 18:38 |
| rodrigods | please review https://review.openstack.org/#/c/298696/ | 18:39 |
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| morgan | O | 18:39 |
| bknudson | I still think it should be keystone/tempest_plugin rather than keystone/keystone_tempest_plugin. | 18:39 |
| stevemar | bknudson: ++ | 18:40 |
| stevemar | kinda self explanatory | 18:40 |
| rderose | bknudson: ++ | 18:40 |
| rodrigods | bknudson, not sure if we would be able to run with 'tox -e all-plugin -- keystone' | 18:40 |
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| rodrigods | but... i can test locally and send a follow up patch to fix that | 18:40 |
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| morgan | bknudson: ++ | 18:41 |
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| rderose | rodrigods: sounds good | 18:41 |
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| ayoung | OK...we done? | 18:41 |
| rodrigods | ayoung, i guess :) | 18:42 |
| bknudson | yes, merge this and get the gate job going | 18:42 |
| rodrigods | bknudson, ++ | 18:42 |
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| morgan | Yay | 18:42 |
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| ayoung | knikolla, roxanaghe BTW, good work on the LDAP Python3 stuff. That is going to be "critical path" as python3 is getting to be essential | 18:43 |
| ayoung | and the LDAP gate job should probably tie in with this functional test effort, too | 18:43 |
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| roxanaghe | ayoung, ++ | 18:43 |
| rodrigods | btw... knikolla and i were discussing about federation tests | 18:43 |
| rodrigods | and infra | 18:43 |
| stevemar | if we get our ldap3 driver working, should we deprecate ldap (old one) right away? | 18:43 |
| rodrigods | we added a topic for the newton summit design sessions | 18:44 |
| ayoung | stevemar, sort of | 18:44 |
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| ayoung | stevemar, if the old one and the new one support the same interface, no | 18:44 |
| bknudson | let's deprecate the ldap driver when the ldap3 one is ready | 18:44 |
| stevemar | ayoung: the new one will have to | 18:44 |
| ayoung | instead, we replace old one with new, and update the entrypoint | 18:44 |
| rderose | bknudson: ++ | 18:44 |
| stevemar | knikolla: have you looked to see if ldap3 has ldap pooling? | 18:44 |
| ayoung | Oh..yeah, I guess we can leave the etnrypioint, and just deprecate the code though, right? | 18:44 |
| bknudson | I doubt the drivers are going to have the same interface. | 18:45 |
| stevemar | ayoung: yep | 18:45 |
| bknudson | especially config options | 18:45 |
| knikolla | stevemar, it has, i've got in running. but not for auth. | 18:45 |
| knikolla | it* | 18:45 |
| ayoung | BTW, has anyone made sure all of the authnentication code works correctly with ldap3? | 18:45 |
| ayoung | sasl? | 18:45 |
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| ayoung | http://adam.younglogic.com/2012/02/exteranl-sasl/ | 18:46 |
| breton | is list_limit here supported? | 18:46 |
| stevemar | knikolla: not for auth? that's strange | 18:46 |
| breton | *there, in ldap3 backend | 18:47 |
| stevemar | #topic open discussion | 18:47 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:47 | |
| stevemar | (forgot to update the topic) | 18:47 |
| ayoung | breton, for ldap? | 18:47 |
| breton | ayoung: yes | 18:47 |
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| knikolla | stevemar, when i try pulling in the authenticate method it doesn't through me away, even with wrong credentials. I'm looking into that. | 18:47 |
| stevemar | rderose: breton have you guys looked at a fix for this bug? https://bugs.launchpad.net/keystone/+bug/1566282 | 18:47 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1566282 in OpenStack Identity (keystone) "Returning federated user fails to authenticate with HTTP 500" [Undecided,In progress] - Assigned to Boris Bobrov (bbobrov) | 18:47 |
| breton | please triage https://review.openstack.org/301795 and review the fix | 18:47 |
| ayoung | breton, should be part of the protocol. I would expect it to be, but should be something we confirm, too | 18:48 |
| knikolla | throw* | 18:48 |
| breton | oh, other way around | 18:48 |
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| morgan | stevemar: there is ldappool built into LDAP 3 lib | 18:48 |
| stevemar | breton: ha, just mentioned that too | 18:48 |
| stevemar | morgan: nice | 18:48 |
| rderose | stevemar: looking... | 18:48 |
| breton | ayoung: no, i mean the option list_limit | 18:48 |
| stevemar | rderose: dolphm ^ https://review.openstack.org/#/c/301795/ | 18:48 |
| breton | ayoung: i implemented it for existing ldap backend | 18:48 |
| morgan | Needs to be explicitly used but it is there vs a separate lib | 18:48 |
| breton | ayoung: is it supported in the new one? | 18:48 |
| ayoung | breton, then yes | 18:49 |
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| ayoung | breton, is there a unit test for it? If so, then roxanaghe 's work is defined by that | 18:49 |
| breton | ayoung: unit tests are for ldap backend | 18:50 |
| breton | ayoung: not general afaik | 18:50 |
| roxanaghe | ayoung, I've seen code around that but haven't gotten that far | 18:50 |
| breton | because it works differently for LDAP and SQL, and i didn't have time to unify the tests | 18:51 |
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| roxanaghe | breton, unit tests are using a fakeldap we built to simulate ldap responses | 18:52 |
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| knikolla | we can do functional tests though, i've subclassed the ldap3 driver with a writeable implementation. | 18:52 |
| bknudson | if we have a writable implementation why not just support it? | 18:53 |
| ayoung | bknudson, so we were thinking that writable was just for testing | 18:53 |
| ayoung | but in general, LDAP should not be writable. | 18:53 |
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| breton | open discussion is a copy of openstack-keystone :) 3 subjects are being discussed at the same time | 18:53 |
| ayoung | it lowers the support threshold | 18:53 |
| ayoung | ok, lets moeve there | 18:53 |
| ayoung | stevemar, want to close out here? | 18:54 |
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| roxanaghe | knikolla, I think the writable apis will be useful for unit tests | 18:54 |
| stevemar | ayoung: yeah, was just tpying that up | 18:54 |
| lbragstad | thanks all o/ | 18:54 |
| stevemar | i think we're all doing other stuff | 18:54 |
| breton | o/ | 18:54 |
| stevemar | lets close this out and move to #openstack-keystone | 18:54 |
| amakarov | ++ | 18:54 |
| stevemar | thanks for showing up everyone | 18:54 |
| stevemar | #endmeeting | 18:54 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 18:54 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Apr 5 18:54:47 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 18:54 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2016/keystone.2016-04-05-17.59.html | 18:54 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2016/keystone.2016-04-05-17.59.txt | 18:54 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2016/keystone.2016-04-05-17.59.log.html | 18:54 |
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| fungi | infra team, assemble! | 19:00 |
| AJaeger | \o/ | 19:00 |
| zigo | o/ | 19:00 |
| jeblair | howdy there | 19:00 |
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| * Shrews readies his Legos | 19:00 | |
| * anteaya pictures jeblair in a stetson | 19:00 | |
| jesusaur | o/ | 19:00 |
| olaph | o/ | 19:00 |
| clarkb | hello | 19:00 |
| Zara | o/ | 19:00 |
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| fungi | i see topics from pleia2 and zigo | 19:01 |
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| pleia2 | o/ | 19:01 |
| ianw | o/ | 19:01 |
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| crinkle | o/ | 19:01 |
| fungi | wanting to spend a chunk of today on summit session ideas, so let's get started | 19:02 |
| fungi | #startmeeting infra | 19:02 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Apr 5 19:02:12 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is fungi. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 19:02 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 19:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:02 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'infra' | 19:02 |
| hashar | o/ | 19:02 |
| fungi | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/InfraTeamMeeting#Agenda_for_next_meeting | 19:02 |
| fungi | #topic Announcements | 19:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Announcements (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:02 | |
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| jhesketh | o/ | 19:02 |
| waynr | o/ | 19:02 |
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| rcarrillocruz | o/ | 19:03 |
| fungi | #info Reminder, Gerrit server maintenance on review.openstack.org is scheduled for 20:00 UTC on Monday, April 11 | 19:03 |
| fungi | #topic Actions from last meeting | 19:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Actions from last meeting (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:03 | |
| fungi | #link http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2016/infra.2016-03-29-19.03.html | 19:03 |
| fungi | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/gerrit_server_replacement yolanda draft a maintenance plan for the gerrit server replacement | 19:03 |
| fungi | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2016-April/091274.html | 19:03 |
| fungi | yolanda send maintenance reminder announcement to the mailing list on April 4 | 19:03 |
| fungi | er, stray newline | 19:03 |
| fungi | #undo | 19:03 |
| openstack | Removing item from minutes: <ircmeeting.items.Link object at 0xb1dcf50> | 19:03 |
| fungi | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2016-April/091274.html yolanda send maintenance reminder announcement to the mailing list on April 4 | 19:03 |
| fungi | so those were both done | 19:04 |
| yolanda | yep, done | 19:04 |
| pleia2 | thanks yolanda | 19:04 |
| fungi | thanks yolanda!!! | 19:04 |
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| fungi | #topic Specs approval | 19:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Specs approval (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:04 | |
| yolanda | so i'd like to get feedback about the plan in the etherpad | 19:04 |
| fungi | yolanda: happy to | 19:04 |
| yolanda | thanks | 19:04 |
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| fungi | we don't have any new specs up for final council voting on this week | 19:05 |
| anteaya | yolanda: it looks good to me, perhaps you can add the actual commands to be executed so folks can copy and paste? | 19:05 |
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| fungi | as a reminder, feel free to pester me if there are specs administrivia changes which need approving and aren't themselves specs or substantial changes to approved specs | 19:05 |
| amrith | ./ | 19:05 |
| AJaeger | fungi, one question on https://review.openstack.org/#/c/284049/ - this one is just a clarification. | 19:05 |
| AJaeger | fungi: Does it need voting? | 19:05 |
| AJaeger | It documents how the translation setup was done | 19:06 |
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| AJaeger | Or should I pester you outside of the meeting for this? ;) | 19:06 |
| yolanda | fungi, i have a question about when to update dns entries... because we need to test that zuul, git mirrors, etc.. can recognize new gerrit entry | 19:06 |
| fungi | AJaeger: i think we can just review that like a normal change. it seems to be documenting reality, not changing a plan | 19:06 |
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| AJaeger | fungi: correct | 19:07 |
| fungi | AJaeger: i've approved it now | 19:07 |
| AJaeger | thanks, fungi | 19:07 |
| hashar | have to announce the new Gerrit IP ahead of time for third parties | 19:07 |
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| anteaya | hashar: we have | 19:07 |
| hashar | corporate world would need to update some firewall rules | 19:07 |
| hashar | anteaya: \O/ | 19:07 |
| anteaya | hashar: http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2016-March/088985.html | 19:07 |
| fungi | hashar: yeah, provided a month heads-up | 19:07 |
| fungi | and reminders | 19:07 |
| anteaya | posted march 10th | 19:07 |
| fungi | yolanda: i'll double-check your plan but usually it needs to be changed at the start of the maintenance window and we should make sure ttls are low (300s) | 19:08 |
| anteaya | hashar: good thinking | 19:08 |
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| fungi | anyway, moving on | 19:08 |
| AJaeger | speaking of gerrit downtime: We have one rename request for a project. Do we want to do it at the same time? | 19:08 |
| yolanda | thanks fungi | 19:08 |
| jeblair | i'd rather not do the rename with the move | 19:08 |
| anteaya | I agree | 19:08 |
| AJaeger | https://review.openstack.org/299192 - an ansible repo | 19:08 |
| anteaya | one thing at a time | 19:08 |
| fungi | yeah, these things should be separate windows | 19:09 |
| fungi | otherwise we complicate roll-back | 19:09 |
| fungi | #topic Priority Efforts | 19:09 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Priority Efforts (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:09 | |
| AJaeger | ok, works for me | 19:09 |
| fungi | nothing specific called out on the agenda this week, so skipping this in the interest of available time | 19:09 |
| fungi | #topic Scheduling a StoryBoard bug day and low-hanging-fruit tagging (pleia2) | 19:09 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Scheduling a StoryBoard bug day and low-hanging-fruit tagging (pleia2) (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:09 | |
| zaro | o/ | 19:10 |
| anteaya | zaro: there you are | 19:10 |
| fungi | #link https://storyboard.openstack.org/#!/story/2000534 First low-hanging-fruit tag! | 19:10 |
| pleia2 | so, I don't want this to turn into a massive discussion (or ignore the great work that craige has done with maniphest) | 19:10 |
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| pleia2 | but storyboard has improved a lot, email support was game-changing for me, and I was hoping we could get some others in the team to start poking at it again | 19:10 |
| nibalizer | o/ | 19:10 |
| Zara | I am always in favour of that! :D | 19:10 |
| anteaya | Zara: bring your lemur! | 19:11 |
| jeblair | pleia2: ++ for the moment at least, it's still our bug tracker and any data we put into it should end up in maniphest anywy | 19:11 |
| zaro | pleia2: i turned on mail but haven't gotten any :( | 19:11 |
| clarkb | Zara: pleia2: I have tried and failed to get email working | 19:11 |
| crinkle | fwiw the kanban board for infra-cloud has made things much easier to track | 19:11 |
| pleia2 | and as I've been working with it myself, a lot of the bugs are out-dated, the low-hanging-fruit tags we brought over from launchpad (I think?) need some review | 19:11 |
| clarkb | Zara: maybe I should talk to you after meeting about it | 19:11 |
| Zara | clarkb: sure | 19:11 |
| anteaya | crinkle: yay, have you been updating it? I have lost track myself | 19:11 |
| jeblair | (feel free to ping me if smtp debugging is needed) | 19:11 |
| pleia2 | so my proposal is to have a bug day where we evaluate the bugs and work on our low-hanging-fruit tags | 19:11 |
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| pleia2 | probably after summit | 19:11 |
| crinkle | anteaya: i haven't lately since we've been waiting for things on the dc side | 19:12 |
| anteaya | pleia2: sounds good to me | 19:12 |
| pleia2 | in the meantime, perhaps we try and use it more :) | 19:12 |
| anteaya | crinkle: understood, glad you find it useful though | 19:12 |
| anteaya | pleia2: do you have a suggested date? | 19:12 |
| pleia2 | anteaya: no | 19:12 |
| fungi | pleia2: i'm in favor of getting back to trying to whittle down our bug count. i think we've been mostly letting things fester for at least a year | 19:12 |
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| anteaya | I don't see why we need to wait until after summit, unless others do | 19:12 |
| pleia2 | fungi: yeah | 19:12 |
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| pleia2 | anteaya: I think most folks are super busy | 19:13 |
| anteaya | I don't hink after summit will be any different | 19:13 |
| fungi | i also don't see any problem with some people doing something sooner than the summit, but i definitely don't have time to pitch in over the next two weeks before i leave | 19:13 |
| pleia2 | well, no, but it gives us some time to make space in our calendars :) summit is only a couple weeks away | 19:13 |
| anteaya | I would be for doing something next wednesday, April 13 | 19:14 |
| anteaya | would I be alone? | 19:14 |
| clarkb | I will be around and I think its a decent idea | 19:14 |
| Zara | me and SotK should be around, if nothing else :) | 19:14 |
| clarkb | we don't need 100% infra team participation to make it successful | 19:14 |
| fungi | go for it, but getting answers out of lots of us next week may be tough if we're needed for input | 19:14 |
| pleia2 | ok, that's fine | 19:14 |
| anteaya | great, so in storyboard channel okay for chat? | 19:14 |
| Zara | wfm | 19:14 |
| anteaya | or do we want the sprint channel? | 19:14 |
| fungi | still, there's nothing stopping people who haev available time to devote to bug triage from coordinateing together or even going it alone at different times | 19:15 |
| pleia2 | I'll chat with zara and SotK about our options for getting a bug list like we did for lp (if that's possible, or makes sense) | 19:15 |
| fungi | my typing just went to pot there | 19:15 |
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| Zara | cool | 19:16 |
| anteaya | pleia2: do you want to do an email saying clarkb and I and Zara and SotK will be in storyboard next wednesday? | 19:16 |
| rcarrillocruz | i'm happy we are looking at Storyboard again | 19:16 |
| rcarrillocruz | :-) | 19:16 |
| anteaya | or shall I? | 19:16 |
| anteaya | pleia2: it is your idea | 19:16 |
| pleia2 | anteaya: I'll announce it and see who wants to join in | 19:16 |
| clarkb | anteaya: I think the sprint channel would be more appropriate if we are looking at infra bugs | 19:16 |
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| anteaya | pleia2: awesome thank you | 19:16 |
| jeblair | clarkb: ++ sprint or infra. | 19:16 |
| clarkb | don't want to clutter the storyboard channel with a bunch of off topic stuff but ya happy to poke at that and try to cleanup | 19:16 |
| fungi | did some people want to announce a small-scale/impromptu infra bug squash a week from tomorrow? | 19:16 |
| anteaya | I'll get the sprint channel set up | 19:16 |
| pleia2 | let's do sprint | 19:16 |
| anteaya | very good | 19:16 |
| * anteaya books the channel | 19:16 | |
| fungi | i doubt the sprint channel is much in use this time of the cycle | 19:16 |
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| anteaya | yeah it is free I'll book it | 19:17 |
| pleia2 | #action pleia2 to announce small-scale/impromptu infra bug squash on apr 13 | 19:17 |
| fungi | #info Interested bug triagers are welcome to an impromptu Infra bug sprint in #openstack-sprint on Wednesday, April 13 | 19:17 |
| pleia2 | that's all, thanks fungi | 19:18 |
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| fungi | thanks! | 19:18 |
| fungi | #topic Debian packaging CI (zigo) | 19:18 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Debian packaging CI (zigo) (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:18 | |
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| fungi | (after this topic, i'll dive into summit session discussion phase of the meeting) | 19:18 |
| zigo | Well, what is missing from https://review.openstack.org/#/c/294022/ ? | 19:18 |
| zigo | What can I do to make it approved? | 19:18 |
| zigo | I'd really like to get it going. | 19:19 |
| zigo | That's first. | 19:19 |
| zigo | Does anyone have something to say about it? | 19:19 |
| pabelanger | o/ | 19:19 |
| zigo | pabelanger: Let me know, by all means! :) | 19:19 |
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| fungi | it looks like AJaeger has already reviewed and is in favor | 19:19 |
| zigo | Yup, he's been very helpful. | 19:20 |
| AJaeger | zigo: it took several iterations to get it in the current state... | 19:20 |
| zigo | Yes. | 19:20 |
| AJaeger | fungi, I think it's worth a try... | 19:20 |
| zigo | Once concern that I have though, is about branching. | 19:20 |
| zigo | I've been told that by default, we get "master". | 19:20 |
| pabelanger | I can review today too | 19:20 |
| zigo | This is in opposition to the current workflow. | 19:21 |
| AJaeger | zigo: you get the change checked out that you use when submitting a change | 19:21 |
| zigo | Oh, so if I change something in debian/mitaka, that's going to be what will be in the repo by default? | 19:21 |
| zigo | Perfect ! :P | 19:21 |
| AJaeger | zigo, sure. We test what you submit ;) | 19:21 |
| AJaeger | Or better the CI tests it... | 19:22 |
| zigo | Ok, so let's say we get this CR merged, the next step will be to publish the built artifacts in a Debian repo. | 19:22 |
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| zigo | I know how to do it at home, on my laptop, on a server, etc., but no clue how I'll do it on upstream infra. | 19:22 |
| zigo | Will we get a special VM ? | 19:22 |
| zigo | How is it going to work? What would you guys advise? | 19:23 |
| pabelanger | well, I think that will take more discussion honestly. | 19:23 |
| fungi | zigo: generally you would run a job like that either after the change merges (post pipeline) or after you push a tag for it (tag/pre-release/release pipelines) | 19:23 |
| pabelanger | especially if you are wanting openstack infra to host them | 19:23 |
| pabelanger | but first thoughts would be using the AFS mirror | 19:24 |
| fungi | but yes, the design would start with some mock-up of the sequence of steps you take to do it by hand now | 19:24 |
| zigo | AFS ? | 19:24 |
| fungi | afs is an implementation detail here | 19:24 |
| AJaeger | I agree with pabelanger: This needs some better understanding of CI in general and shouldn't be discussed here. | 19:24 |
| zigo | What means AFS ? | 19:24 |
| rcarrillocruz | andrew file system, iir | 19:24 |
| rcarrillocruz | c | 19:24 |
| pabelanger | http://docs.openstack.org/infra/system-config/afs.html | 19:24 |
| zigo | Ah... | 19:24 |
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| rcarrillocruz | distributed filesystem, to avoid doing sync scripts on mirrors and all | 19:25 |
| fungi | easiest would probably be to generate the packages and push them somewhere like tarballs.o.o, then have another job which indexes them to update a cohesive package repository | 19:25 |
| rcarrillocruz | that link explains rationale | 19:25 |
| zigo | If I'm given a VM, I can setup something like mini-dinstall or something similar. | 19:25 |
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| fungi | but that can be worked out in design phase | 19:25 |
| zigo | I don't want to install a full dak, but there's alternatives to that. | 19:25 |
| zigo | Is it possible to do something like this? | 19:26 |
| fungi | zigo: it would just be another job (or multiple jobs) run on existing workers or some similar to our existing workers, which are built via automation | 19:26 |
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| zigo | Can I be given a virtual machine with root access? | 19:26 |
| AJaeger | zigo, let's do a spec. Write up what you want, give a proper problem statement and then we can chime in and help with the missing pieces. | 19:26 |
| zigo | Well, the point is, I'm not sure what I should ask for, and I need to know what's possible or not. | 19:26 |
| zigo | There's a million way to do things... what do you guys think should be done? | 19:27 |
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| fungi | it wouldn't be a system people log into and run things on. it would be a system deployed from a template (either existing for the duration of only one job, or used for multiple jobs but which could be redeployed as needed) | 19:27 |
| pabelanger | well, since infra-cloud is possible to run custom packages, it might be worth talking about it at the summit | 19:27 |
| AJaeger | zigo: what do you need to do? Define your problem first and leave blanks to fill in - including questions. | 19:27 |
| pabelanger | since there is some overlap | 19:27 |
| fungi | there are no manual steps involved on our job workers | 19:27 |
| pabelanger | so far, reprepro has been working well for us | 19:27 |
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| zigo | pabelanger: From my past experience, the summit doesn't solve issues, we will *all* be very busy. | 19:28 |
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| zigo | I need to get all built packages published on each merge. | 19:28 |
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| zigo | Available to all the new jobs. | 19:28 |
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| AJaeger | Fedora and SUSE have their own build services for this - and Debian has as well AFAIK. | 19:29 |
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| zigo | So, the .deb, .changes, .orig.tar.xz, etc. would need to be pushed to a filesystem, then we run a script to scan all packages of a given OpenStack release. | 19:29 |
| pabelanger | and other projects like delorean too | 19:29 |
| fungi | i think that's doable, but step #1 is getting packages built. consuming them in other jobs is a separate step. best to work on one phase of this project at a time | 19:29 |
| AJaeger | What you propose sounds like reimplementing such a service in Jenkins and I'm not sure that's the best way. | 19:29 |
| angdraug_mobile | Ideally, you want packages published on each patch set | 19:29 |
| zigo | I got the scripts to generate the Packages.gz files and all already. | 19:29 |
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| zigo | fungi: I don't want to wait, it's taking already A WAY too much time. | 19:30 |
| fungi | zigo: i understand. but generating the package repository indices is the _easy_ part | 19:30 |
| angdraug_mobile | So that you can use them to run tests anywhere | 19:30 |
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| zigo | fungi: IMO, it'd be best to think about next step already right now. | 19:30 |
| fungi | zigo: also your impatience is causing you to try to plan too many steps ahead, which means you get caught up in things you aren't even sure how will work yet | 19:30 |
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| zigo | fungi: I don't agree I'm lacking patience. | 19:31 |
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| fungi | designing something like this to work in a completely hand-off automated ci system is completely different than writing some scripts you can run locally on your own machine | 19:32 |
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| zigo | fungi: The project entered the big tent last summer. | 19:32 |
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| zigo | Ok, moving on, is there someone volunteering to work on the design with me? | 19:32 |
| zigo | And by the way, where's Monty? :) | 19:32 |
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| nibalizer | on a plane | 19:33 |
| zigo | ok | 19:33 |
| nibalizer | or probably in a security line headed to a plane | 19:33 |
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| zigo | fungi: What do you advise, is AFS a good idea? Do we have that already available in the current infra? | 19:34 |
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| fungi | zigo: afs is an implementation detail, as i said. best not to get confused by that right now | 19:35 |
| zigo | fungi: So what should I get working on then? | 19:35 |
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| fungi | tying this into local package mirrors in our providers is likely one of the last steps to be concerned with | 19:35 |
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| fungi | zigo: making sure the jobs you have to test building packages do so successfully, with results you can inspect to be able to troubleshoot when things go wrong there | 19:36 |
| zigo | igorbelikov: What's your view? | 19:36 |
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| fungi | zigo: then work on a job which can build packages after merge and upload them somewhere durable | 19:37 |
| fungi | the steps after that will depend somewhat on the design you end up with for those previous steps | 19:37 |
| fungi | anything else on this topic that needs the full attention of the entire infra team (minus those on internet-less airplanes)? | 19:37 |
| igorbelikov | zigo: I agree with fungi here. Let’s get the first steps going | 19:37 |
| zigo | fungi: What I was asking is: where is this "durable somewhere" and how will it work... | 19:37 |
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| zigo | Ok. | 19:38 |
| zigo | So probably we can move on... | 19:38 |
| zigo | Thanks fungi. | 19:38 |
| fungi | zigo: thanks, and let's continue this with interested participants in #openstack-infra | 19:38 |
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| fungi | #topic Design summit session planning | 19:38 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Design summit session planning (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:38 | |
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| fungi | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/infra-newton-summit-planning Newton Summit Planning | 19:39 |
| fungi | i haven't transcribed the days/times for our slots into this yet | 19:39 |
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| fungi | #link https://www.openstack.org/summit/austin-2016/summit-schedule/global-search?t=Infrastructure: Summit Session Days/Times | 19:40 |
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| fungi | looks like we've got at least a few fishbowls proposed, but so far only one workroom | 19:41 |
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| anteaya | you have the colon but my clicking on it lost the colon | 19:41 |
| fungi | weird | 19:41 |
| anteaya | so glad I know to use the colon | 19:41 |
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| anteaya | yeah | 19:41 |
| hashar | ; | 19:42 |
| anteaya | can any of the fishbowls be workrooms? | 19:42 |
| fungi | #undo | 19:42 |
| openstack | Removing item from minutes: <ircmeeting.items.Link object at 0xb3fe390> | 19:42 |
| fungi | #link https://www.openstack.org/summit/austin-2016/summit-schedule/global-search?t=Infrastructure%3A Summit Session Days/Times | 19:42 |
| fungi | better? | 19:42 |
| pleia2 | yep | 19:42 |
| fungi | anteaya: some less popular fishbowls can move to workrooms | 19:42 |
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| anteaya | yes | 19:42 |
| anteaya | thank you | 19:43 |
| fungi | the main limitations there are space and seating arrangement | 19:43 |
| jeblair | i could see mordred's groups fishbowl working as a workroom | 19:43 |
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| rcarrillocruz | ++ | 19:43 |
| anteaya | that works for me, mordred's thing as a workroom | 19:44 |
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| clarkb | I am sure I can come up with other workroom ideas | 19:44 |
| clarkb | the ansible one has frustrated me semi recently so I threw it up there | 19:44 |
| clarkb | I also don't want to be running half the sessions :) | 19:44 |
| anteaya | ha ha ha | 19:45 |
| anteaya | the ansible one looks like a good workroom topic | 19:45 |
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| fungi | also i'm going to need to squeeze in newton priorities planning somewhere. it could be a fishbowl though we're likely to get a lot of random (potentially distracting/irrelevant) input. on the other hand we could do a workroom but having it on the schedule may just draw the same crowd and see them all try to cram into a tiny space | 19:45 |
| fungi | last time interested core reviewers broke away and found a quiet corner during the sprint day, which worked out pretty well | 19:46 |
| anteaya | would it make sense ot have it on the friday? | 19:46 |
| persia | Having it adhoc on the friday is likely to work best | 19:46 |
| waynr | is anyone interested in the proposed JJB API fishbowl session? | 19:46 |
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| fungi | i think i'm leaning that way again. though we'll be hard-pressed to find as awesome a teahouse as we did in that courtyard in tokyo | 19:47 |
| anteaya | fungi: yes I don't think austin teahouses are nearly as awesome | 19:47 |
| fungi | i hear they put barbecued meat in the tea cups. so... depends on your preferences i suppose | 19:47 |
| anteaya | yeah different | 19:48 |
| rcarrillocruz | lol | 19:48 |
| anteaya | waynr: I think some folks will be, though I personally don't have a lot of experience with the JJB API | 19:48 |
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| anteaya | so the item on line 40 | 19:49 |
| waynr | there's not much API to speak of in the sense of "this is really usable outside of the JJB command line context" | 19:49 |
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| anteaya | this was proposed by someone who won't be at the summit | 19:50 |
| fungi | so looks like for fishbowls we have xenial upgrade planning. there's both the ci aspects of this for openstack itself, and also generally upgrading our servers. the latter can probably be deferred i think since we already mostly agreed not to plan for moving our services to xenial until ocata, if even that soon | 19:50 |
| anteaya | so if anyone is interested in it, it will need a leader | 19:50 |
| clarkb | fungi: the issue is we are still alrgely precise | 19:50 |
| clarkb | fungi: so we need to either trusty first or jump straight toe xenial | 19:50 |
| clarkb | and do it all before april next year | 19:51 |
| fungi | yep, so upgrading our services to trusty might be a more useful discussion to have at this point than upgrading them to xenial | 19:51 |
| bkero | Should we plan on a session for that? | 19:51 |
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| clarkb | I thin kwe can use the same session and just refine it a bit more | 19:51 |
| jesusaur | fungi: i agree | 19:51 |
| mordred | I have a thing? | 19:51 |
| * mordred is about to take off on a plane ... sorry for mssing things so far | 19:52 | |
| anteaya | mordred: someone signed you up for a thing | 19:52 |
| fungi | i worry about mixing topics in that session. planning how to lay out our ci transition to test newton changes for openstack on xenial is likely a solid slot on its own | 19:52 |
| jeblair | mordred: the ansible groups thing | 19:52 |
| pabelanger | fungi: we should at minimal discuss upgrading our services to ubuntu-trusty | 19:52 |
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| mordred | jeblair: ah - neat. yes. workroom | 19:53 |
| fungi | clarkb: do you think the job transition to xenial would be a good (maybe double) workroom topic instead? | 19:53 |
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| fungi | we could just, you know, try to "get it done" there | 19:53 |
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| pleia2 | that seems like a reasonable use of a workroom | 19:53 |
| clarkb | fungi: maybe, the only problem with that is if things go horribly wrong its hard to set it straight when outside of the workroom | 19:53 |
| clarkb | I supose you just revert in that case | 19:53 |
| pabelanger | well, our ubuntu xenial mirrors are online now, so that work could start anytime now :D | 19:53 |
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| fungi | clarkb: maybe we plan to get as far as having the jobs ready for cut-over immediately posty-summit | 19:54 |
| fungi | er, post-summit | 19:54 |
| jeblair | right before we get on a plane ;) | 19:54 |
| fungi | well, maybe not _that_ immediate | 19:55 |
| anteaya | ha ha ha | 19:55 |
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| fungi | my main concern with making it a workroom topic though is whether we can parallelize enough of that work to be able to engage 10+ contributors on it for an hour-ish | 19:55 |
| anteaya | that's the tough part | 19:55 |
| clarkb | fungi: we can probably get people testing different aspects | 19:56 |
| clarkb | python unittests, doc builds, sdisting, and push changes for each one as they go? | 19:56 |
| clarkb | we should go into it iwth a plan for how we handle the branch switching though | 19:56 |
| clarkb | since that is messy | 19:56 |
| fungi | i'm unconvinced as to whether we need a summit session for the trusty upgrades, though i suppose it could consist of trying to reach consensus on a sequence and approximate timeline for rebuilding various servers, as well as a status check as to where we're already at with it | 19:57 |
| anteaya | 3 minutes remaining | 19:57 |
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| fungi | thanks anteaya | 19:57 |
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| fungi | clarkb: i suppose we could double-whammy xenial testing by doing design in a fishbowl wednesday and implementation in a workroom thursday | 19:57 |
| pabelanger | but comment still remains, we should work on upgrading precise nodes to trusty first... since they have lagged this long | 19:57 |
| fungi | but that might be monopolizing too much of our allotment | 19:57 |
| pabelanger | s/nodes/services | 19:58 |
| anteaya | I think being in sync with operating system plans and expectations would be a great way to start this release | 19:58 |
| clarkb | fungi: ya and may make us go crazy | 19:58 |
| clarkb | fungi: we could use sprint day for that if we wanted to split | 19:58 |
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| fungi | also, just to set expectations for today's meeting, my goal was mainly to discuss proposals and get ideas. we have until the end of next week to finalize our schedule | 19:58 |
| jeblair | (btw, i think infra-cloud sprint is a great idea) | 19:58 |
| anteaya | awesome | 19:58 |
| fungi | clarkb: i think that's an excellent idea for one sprint group | 19:59 |
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| fungi | and yes, looks like timing will be ripe (hopefully!) to be able to infra-cloud either on sprint day or in a workroom (or both!) | 19:59 |
| jeblair | (mostly because sprinting on operating a cloud *at the summit* with lots of openstack devs could be really cool) | 19:59 |
| anteaya | agreed | 19:59 |
| fungi | as long as hp doesn't hit any delays with the remaining cabling/routing anyway | 19:59 |
| pleia2 | fingers crossed | 19:59 |
| fungi | okay, we're out of time today. add/refine topics on the etherpad for next week when we'll reach final decisions and i can schedule after that | 20:00 |
| fungi | thanks everybody! | 20:00 |
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| fungi | #endmeeting | 20:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 20:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Apr 5 20:00:25 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 20:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2016/infra.2016-04-05-19.02.html | 20:00 |
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| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2016/infra.2016-04-05-19.02.txt | 20:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2016/infra.2016-04-05-19.02.log.html | 20:00 |
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| ttx | ... | 20:00 |
| russellb | hi | 20:00 |
| jaypipes | hola | 20:00 |
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| shamail | hi | 20:00 |
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| flaper87 | o/ | 20:00 |
| markmcclain | o/ | 20:00 |
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| annegentle | heyo | 20:01 |
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| sdake_ | o/ | 20:01 |
| mriedem | o/ | 20:01 |
| thingee | o/ | 20:01 |
| ttx | mestery, lifeless, mordred, dtroyer, jeblair, sdague: around ? | 20:01 |
| * edleafe tries to be inconspicuous | 20:01 | |
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| jeblair | ttx: o/ | 20:01 |
| mestery | o/ | 20:01 |
| sdague | o/ | 20:01 |
| docaedo | o/ | 20:01 |
| ttx | #startmeeting tc | 20:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Apr 5 20:01:22 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is ttx. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 20:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 20:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'tc' | 20:01 |
| dtroyer_zz | o/ | 20:01 |
| piet | o/ | 20:01 |
| jaypipes | o/ | 20:01 |
| ttx | Hello, dear members of the mitaka Technical Committee and visitors | 20:01 |
| ttx | This is the agenda for our last meeting: | 20:01 |
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| mestery | ttx waxing poetic :) | 20:01 |
| ttx | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/TechnicalCommittee | 20:01 |
| lifeless | ttx: /o\ | 20:01 |
| ttx | First a bit of boring administrativia | 20:02 |
| ttx | #topic Update Newton new PTL's | 20:02 |
| amrith | hello dear ttx :) | 20:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Update Newton new PTL's (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:02 | |
| ttx | #link https://review.openstack.org/298228 | 20:02 |
| ttx | There were a few back-and-forth on email addresses, I think it's good to go now | 20:02 |
| ttx | could use a couple more votes | 20:02 |
| ttx | We'll update Renat's address in a separate change | 20:02 |
| flaper87 | ship it! | 20:03 |
| flaper87 | I can do that while we get votes | 20:03 |
| ttx | #action ttx to update Renat's address if nobody beats him to it | 20:03 |
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| * devananda lurks | 20:03 | |
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| flaper87 | or you do it | 20:03 |
| flaper87 | :P | 20:03 |
| ttx | Alright it is in | 20:03 |
| ttx | #topic Mention in project requirements about ptl election | 20:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Mention in project requirements about ptl election (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:03 | |
| ttx | #link https://review.openstack.org/295609 | 20:03 |
| ttx | We discussed this one last week | 20:04 |
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| thingee | o/ | 20:04 |
| ttx | just got enough votes, so I can approve that one too | 20:04 |
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| ttx | #topic Change mission statement by recent change | 20:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Change mission statement by recent change (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:04 | |
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| ttx | #link https://review.openstack.org/292610 | 20:04 |
| ttx | This one bakes the new mission statement in our charter. | 20:05 |
| lifeless | yay :) | 20:05 |
| ttx | As for other charter changes, it's a special motion which requires 2/3 votes in favor | 20:05 |
| ttx | So we are short of a few votes here | 20:05 |
| flaper87 | ttx: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/301890/ | 20:05 |
| ttx | no longer | 20:05 |
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| ttx | flaper87: will approve that one as typo change | 20:05 |
| ttx | once it passes tests | 20:05 |
| ttx | thx | 20:05 |
| flaper87 | sounds good | 20:06 |
| flaper87 | np | 20:06 |
| * flaper87 happy with the new mission statement | 20:06 | |
| ttx | alright approved | 20:06 |
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| mestery | Excellent! | 20:06 |
| ttx | Good to have brought that to conclusion | 20:06 |
| flaper87 | YAY! | 20:06 |
| * dims sneaks in | 20:06 | |
| ttx | #topic Retire the kite/python-kiteclient projects | 20:06 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Retire the kite/python-kiteclient projects (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:06 | |
| ttx | #link https://review.openstack.org/297803 | 20:06 |
| annegentle | ahh, retirement | 20:07 |
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| ttx | This one is also a no-brainer. With the PTL approving it, we actually don't really need a formal vote on that one | 20:07 |
| annegentle | what a lovely word | 20:07 |
| mestery | annegentle: I know, right? | 20:07 |
| ttx | So I'll merge this one now unless someone objects. | 20:07 |
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| mestery | ttx: merge away! | 20:07 |
| flaper87 | ship it | 20:07 |
| ttx | LESS projects! | 20:07 |
| edleafe | go fly a kite! | 20:07 |
| mestery | less is the new more | 20:07 |
| sdague | flaper87: well... scuttle it | 20:07 |
| ttx | we should probably have cleaned that one up a bit earlier :) | 20:07 |
| jeblair | did the project git a readme update? | 20:07 |
| ttx | Alright. Now more interesting topics | 20:07 |
| flaper87 | sdague: indeed, that's more appropriate | 20:08 |
| ttx | jeblair: it's just made unofficial, the repo is not attic-ed yet | 20:08 |
| annegentle | mestery: heh | 20:08 |
| sdague | jeblair: it does not seem to have - https://github.com/openstack/kite | 20:08 |
| sdague | though it should be moved to the attic too I think | 20:08 |
| jeblair | ttx: right, but maybe this is a good checkpoint to make sure that it gets cleaned up | 20:08 |
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| ttx | one never knows maybe it will get a new life outside :) | 20:08 |
| sdague | it has had 3 commits since Jan 1 2015 - https://github.com/openstack/kite/commits/master | 20:08 |
| jeblair | we have a section on this: http://docs.openstack.org/infra/manual/drivers.html#retiring-a-project | 20:09 |
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| ttx | sdague: that's still more than all the packaging-deb repos combined | 20:09 |
| jeblair | i'm not suggesting we hold off on approving this change | 20:09 |
| jeblair | which is good, since it was just approved | 20:09 |
| ttx | jeblair: we could volunteer someone to properly follow-up with repo decommission | 20:09 |
| jeblair | but maybe we could incorprate a checkpoint of "please do the steps in the infra manual" for this | 20:10 |
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| anteaya | jeblair: 297719 297741 | 20:10 |
| jeblair | anteaya: awesome! | 20:10 |
| anteaya | :) | 20:10 |
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| sdague | yeh, I think the biggest issue is getting someone that can approve those to pay attention | 20:10 |
| ttx | ah! anteaya wins gerrit search award | 20:10 |
| anteaya | thank you | 20:10 |
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| annegentle | nice one anteaya | 20:11 |
| ttx | moving on ? | 20:11 |
| jeblair | i think the infra team probably doesn't mind stepping in these cases if we have to | 20:11 |
| anteaya | annegentle: :) | 20:11 |
| jeblair | just the more other folks do it the better :) | 20:11 |
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| sdague | well I'm throwing my +1 on both of those for support | 20:11 |
| jeblair | i will leave a comment on the governance changes pointing to those for reference | 20:11 |
| annegentle | jeblair: yeah, let someone test the docs for decommission :) | 20:11 |
| ttx | #topic Separating cross-project specs and guidelines | 20:11 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Separating cross-project specs and guidelines (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:11 | |
| ttx | thingee: care to introduce the topic ? | 20:11 |
| thingee | o/ | 20:11 |
| lifeless | now the actual meeting bit :) | 20:11 |
| ttx | lifeless: yep, with plenty of time to spare | 20:12 |
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| thingee | so in previous discussions within the cross-project team there seemed to be confusion with specifications. | 20:12 |
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| ttx | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2016-March/090156.html | 20:12 |
| ttx | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/296571/ | 20:12 |
| thingee | this first started with the product working group introducing a spec that seemed more like a wish list for rolling upgrades. | 20:13 |
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| thingee | we later agreed that we can't have a spec for rolling upgrades. You can share ideas of how to go about solving some problems in the area, but it is not applicable to all projects. | 20:13 |
| thingee | dansmith: am I on track so far ^ ? | 20:13 |
| ttx | I think we need to somehow separate things that have a start and an end, from things that are more living documents | 20:13 |
| thingee | so this is formally recognizing those guidelines (which already exist) and the specs being separate things. | 20:14 |
| flaper87 | I wonder if something like project team guide but for cross-project guidelines would work for this | 20:14 |
| ttx | I was thinking specs = finite efforts to reach a goal, and guidelines = living design doc | 20:14 |
| dansmith | ttx: +1 | 20:14 |
| dansmith | I don't want specs for anything other than actual work to be done | 20:15 |
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| dansmith | and even then, sparingly | 20:15 |
| ttx | can be same repo or different repo, same approval rules or different approval rules, but step 1 is to recognize the difference | 20:15 |
| flaper87 | I wouldn't have it in the same repo | 20:15 |
| sdague | we should also figure out why we are creating any of these artifacts at all. Because my understanding with doing cross project specs was to provide a structured way to discuss a hard problem in detail to come up with a solution that would then make reviewing code for that solution easier | 20:15 |
| thingee | so this is a first attempt. thanks to sdague for weighing in, otherwise, not too much feedback unfortunately. | 20:15 |
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| sdague | because there was a reference document | 20:15 |
| flaper87 | as far as the approval rules go, I think it's fine to let that to the cross-project repo chair | 20:15 |
| sdague | and I think we should make sure than any artifacts we are building are actually helping us do something | 20:16 |
| shamail | thingee: would both specs and guidelines still need TC approval after separation? | 20:16 |
| annegentle | guidelines are great to have | 20:16 |
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| devananda | sometimes there is an overlap between proscribing how to do a thing generally and designing how to solve a thing specifically | 20:17 |
| ttx | sdague: so my take on cross-project specs is that they are goals that affect more than one team and the cross-project spec repo is a neutral place to get consensus across teams boudaries | 20:17 |
| thingee | sdague: I think that's a later problem, but do recognize it as a problem. I have not really spent time, but I don't see how serious the community takes cross-project specs to begin with. | 20:17 |
| carolbarrett | The intent behind the rolling upgrades cross-project spec proposal was to provide input on user requirements for upgrading openstack as a basis for defining project specific specs and blueprints. | 20:17 |
| ttx | with guidelines informing the design of everything, cross-project or not | 20:17 |
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| devananda | ttx: +1 | 20:17 |
| thingee | Kind of goes with the api-wg. In previous TC discussions, a tag of following guidelines would be granted as an incentive | 20:17 |
| sdague | so, lets take cross project spec #1 - which is the logging guidelines | 20:17 |
| sdague | as a concrete example | 20:17 |
| dansmith | carolbarrett: but we did that with the user story thing | 20:18 |
| lifeless | +1 sdague | 20:18 |
| sdague | that was used to get some convergence on logging patterns between projects | 20:18 |
| sdague | and provide a reference for people going and fixing those in projects | 20:18 |
| ttx | sdague: I think it should have been two things. Guidelines, and then a spec to catch up existing projects to the expected level | 20:18 |
| carolbarrett | dansmith: The user story doesn't provide an implementation methodology across projects, that's what we were hoping to achieve for upgrades | 20:18 |
| thingee | two conversations going on.. | 20:19 |
| dansmith | carolbarrett: right, but it also including things we weren't going to do because the authors wanted it reflected in there | 20:19 |
| jeblair | ttx: in that case is the spec more than "implement the guidelines?" | 20:19 |
| dansmith | carolbarrett: so, we can't really have an implementation plan for something we're not going to do :) | 20:19 |
| sdague | ttx: and for something like logging, it's kind of a constant battle | 20:19 |
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| ttx | jeblair: it lists assignees and projects too | 20:19 |
| thingee | sdague: so if it's on-going, then you can't have a spec. you have a guideline. | 20:20 |
| ttx | sdague: so maybe there is no catch-up spec because it's more of a continuous process | 20:20 |
| sdague | ttx: it assumes that it's a DONE able activity, my experience is it just hasn't been | 20:20 |
| ttx | sdague: yeah, maybe the spec #1 example is a corner case | 20:20 |
| sdague | ok, well regardless for what it's called, it was an artifact that did help a set of people make progress in a lot of places | 20:20 |
| annegentle | I think the guidelines would be useful beyond just for contributor teams. | 20:20 |
| ttx | Ideally all specs should be completable | 20:20 |
| sdague | even if there remains work to be done | 20:20 |
| annegentle | specs should contain tasks. | 20:21 |
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| flaper87 | Wonder if this cross-project guidelines could host guidelines from other working groups | 20:21 |
| carolbarrett | dansmith: through feedback we refine and reach an agreement on what's needed versus what the community will do. But we still need the spec for projects to gain that info...for future big tent projects too | 20:21 |
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| edleafe | I think this is a vocabulary issue | 20:21 |
| flaper87 | Rather than having separate docs and guidelines for every working group | 20:21 |
| ttx | I think retrofitting guidelines into teh spec repo kind of discouraged us to create more of them | 20:22 |
| cdent | Much of this use of gerrit to have discussion to reach consensus on how to do stuff seems to stem from fear of email. | 20:22 |
| edleafe | 'spec' means something specific, at least in Nova | 20:22 |
| sdague | cdent: that's actually probably true. Though gerrit make it easier to see when things are converging | 20:22 |
| ttx | so, anyone disagreeing that specs and guidelines are fundamentally different ? | 20:23 |
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| anteaya | I am not disagreeing | 20:23 |
| annegentle | ttx: the only additional difficulty is that some teams may have different definition for specs | 20:23 |
| sdague | I feel like there is enough grey space I'm not sure it's worth the distinction | 20:23 |
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| sdague | but that might just be me | 20:23 |
| annegentle | for example, keystone documents concepts of their REST API in their specs repo | 20:23 |
| cdent | I think the debate is over which is more useful. | 20:23 |
| annegentle | I think I'll need to encourage that to stop, but it's another case | 20:24 |
| devananda | ttx: I agree that they are different | 20:24 |
| * flaper87 agrees they are different | 20:24 | |
| annegentle | of team-to-team disparity | 20:24 |
| carolbarrett | Seems like its around level of detail... | 20:24 |
| thingee | sdague: so going back to the original problem. If someone felt they could write a spec on best practices for rolling upgrades, could it go in openstack-specs? | 20:24 |
| sdague | creating artifacts that help us solve a concrete thing is mostly my concern | 20:24 |
| ttx | sdague: that is fair.... I can totally see grey things. If everything is grey there, then we just produce a gradient of docs | 20:24 |
| devananda | as an example of a finite unit of work that requires three projects: nova/ironic/neutron network integration | 20:24 |
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| ttx | but I'd argue most things are either white or black, not corner cases | 20:25 |
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| devananda | but I haven't seen anything yet in the cross project specs that stands out as affecting all projects AND being finite. that seems counter-intuitive when we have a growing tent ... | 20:25 |
| thingee | devananda: deprecating clis in favor of osc | 20:25 |
| jeblair | devananda: that's a good observation | 20:26 |
| sdague | devananda: right, which is part of the grey space. The closest thing to that was the CORS work. | 20:26 |
| lifeless | ttx: I agree that the underlying concepts are different between 'guidance' and 'instruction' | 20:26 |
| edleafe | "Guideline" says "here is what you should be doing". "Spec" says "here is the specific way we are going to do it". | 20:26 |
| dtroyer_zz | strategy vs tactics | 20:26 |
| cdent | spec, as edleafe is describing it, requires mandate | 20:26 |
| lifeless | ttx: but I think pragmatically - if they are both binding, and both consensus built, I don't understand the value in splitting them up | 20:26 |
| edleafe | dtroyer_zz: +1 | 20:26 |
| devananda | thingee: fair point. I'd agree that is finite, if it also mandated that no new projects create new CLIs | 20:26 |
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| carolbarrett | don't guidelines lead to specs? | 20:27 |
| sdague | carolbarrett: not really | 20:27 |
| ttx | edleafe: arguably in the logging guidelines case, you don't need a cross-project spec. You just need per-project specs (or even just a bug with an assignee) | 20:27 |
| dansmith | carolbarrett: not IMHO | 20:27 |
| ttx | since there is not so much value in tracking the coordination | 20:27 |
| devananda | lifeless: I believe the difference is that a spec is written, at least currently, in such a way as to define an end-state | 20:27 |
| flaper87 | carolbarrett: it could even be the other way around | 20:27 |
| lifeless | ttx: its like the whole overly-modelled split between 'bug' and 'blueprint' in Launchpad - that was actively harmful there, and I'm worried we're going down the same path here | 20:27 |
| edleafe | ttx: true. In the case of logging, it probably doesn't need a spec | 20:27 |
| edleafe | flaper87: ?? | 20:28 |
| sdague | lifeless: ++ | 20:28 |
| ttx | carolbarrett: a guideline could just trigger per-project specs or bugs, not necessarily a cross-project one | 20:28 |
| flaper87 | edleafe: ? | 20:28 |
| lifeless | devananda: dansmith has said specs reflect specific work to do, as being the key thing | 20:28 |
| carolbarrett | sdague: if you outline a task an operator wants to accomplish (guideline) then a spec would detail how that would be achieved in openstack. Is there another approach to this you would want to see used? | 20:28 |
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| edleafe | flaper87: guideline dependent on a spec? | 20:28 |
| sdague | lets me less focused on buckets and more focused on what things would actually help us make specific improvements in openstack | 20:28 |
| dtroyer_zz | the cross-project specs seem most useful in catching up existing projects, not so much for new work | 20:28 |
| ttx | lifeless/sdague: maybe we should go back to the original problem thingee set out to solve | 20:28 |
| lifeless | devananda: a guideline about how things must be done is still an end-state, but its not specific work, and its never 'finished to be forgotten' | 20:28 |
| carolbarrett | ttx: true, they may not always be cross project, but I don't think that's the case with rolling upgrades | 20:28 |
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| sdague | ttx: sure | 20:29 |
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| flaper87 | edleafe: not dependent... The message said "leading" and I can see how after implementing a spec we could come up with new guidelines | 20:29 |
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| ttx | thingee: what's wrong with the current fuzzy model ? | 20:29 |
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| ttx | (timeboxing that to 10 more minutes, after that we have more topic to cover) | 20:30 |
| * thingee finds to copy and paste his last message to sdague | 20:30 | |
| edleafe | flaper87: ah, ok | 20:30 |
| dtroyer_zz | it seems like we need (wait for it) tags to signal some attributes of these docs, then leave them lumped together | 20:30 |
| thingee | sdague: so going back to the original problem. If someone felt they could write a spec on best practices for rolling upgrades, could it go in openstack-specs | 20:30 |
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| lifeless | dtroyer_zz: the tagpocalypse is imminent | 20:30 |
| annegentle | thingee: why not the docs? | 20:30 |
| sdague | thingee: if it was actually going to be useful in making concrete changes in openstack, sure | 20:30 |
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| sdague | but the actual artifact in question was not | 20:31 |
| sdague | and worse, it was actually definitively wrong in many places | 20:31 |
| flaper87 | well, but we would endup separating those in-tree anyway, right? | 20:31 |
| carolbarrett | annegentle: the capabilities don't exist to be documented... | 20:31 |
| thingee | sdague: for the millionth time, I agree and that's what I've been arguing for. :) | 20:31 |
| gordc | thingee:can we amend the best practice file(s) when we want? | 20:31 |
| flaper87 | Like a folder for guidelines and one for actual specs | 20:31 |
| lifeless | flaper87: would we? we haven't so far | 20:31 |
| ttx | sdague: so it's not guidelines vs. spec, it's how realistic and informed the doc ends up being ? | 20:31 |
| flaper87 | lifeless: we haven't but we're kinda acknowledging the distinction now | 20:31 |
| sdague | ttx: right, it's "is this artifact useful in making a concrete change in openstack" | 20:32 |
| mordred | o/ | 20:32 |
| lifeless | flaper87: well, maybe? I haven't seen an actual problem ascribed to the putative difference so far | 20:32 |
| annegentle | carolbarrett: ok then specs are needed if the best practices capability won't actually work in a particular project | 20:32 |
| flaper87 | and wondering whether that would go in or not is an proof of the distinction between those | 20:32 |
| sdague | that's where I've tried to push this line | 20:32 |
| gordc | thingee: i'm imagining something like 'this is how we did it in project a, this is how we did in project b, etc..., project c, see what works best' | 20:32 |
| carolbarrett | annegentle: +1 | 20:32 |
| annegentle | sdague: so for the service catalog, we had a nova owner right? | 20:32 |
| sdague | most of what's up in openstack-specs aren't right now | 20:32 |
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| thingee | so kencjohnston and carolbarrett someone needs to come in with actual technical information in the spec that follows what the community is *currently* doing. | 20:32 |
| annegentle | sdague: so while we were describing what we wanted, we had workers for tasks | 20:32 |
| ttx | sdague: ok then maybe the process works as designed | 20:33 |
| dansmith | thingee: and only things that actually apply to everyone | 20:33 |
| lifeless | what I'd like to ask | 20:33 |
| dansmith | thingee: like logging and api stuff | 20:33 |
| lifeless | what do we want to happen differently | 20:33 |
| thingee | dansmith: yes of course | 20:33 |
| sdague | annegentle: right, we had owners invested in projects that were using this to make sure their work in a couple of projects (nova / keystone) would be constructive, and move the whole openstack ball forward | 20:33 |
| lifeless | at a conceptual level: not execution | 20:33 |
| thingee | ttx: I'm done, thank you | 20:33 |
| thingee | I will abandon the change and feel free to reference this discussion if the spec has issues after meeting the necessary requirements. | 20:34 |
| annegentle | sdague: and I know the loss of an ether pad sorta delayed filling in all the technical details but we had the tasks | 20:34 |
| carolbarrett | thingee: Thought the cross-project spec process was the approach to developing this...will take back to product wg and come up with another plan. | 20:34 |
| annegentle | carolbarrett: I hesitate to put the service catalog up as an example since it's not great though :) | 20:34 |
| sdague | annegentle: right, we had to compromise on details in the spec to set certain boundaries | 20:34 |
| sdague | but I feel like in that case it was useful concrete artifact to move that ball forward, and be able to reference that bit when working in projects that this was our direction | 20:35 |
| * dansmith starts taking a drink every time sdague says "artifact" | 20:35 | |
| thingee | carolbarrett: well someone in the cross-project team could volunteer to help the product working group. Just so far, people that do have knowledge in the rolling upgrade area are very busy people. | 20:35 |
| ttx | ok, looks like the anti-overclassification front won this one | 20:35 |
| lifeless | ttx: we prefer to be called the peoples front of generality | 20:36 |
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| dansmith | lifeless: nice | 20:36 |
| flaper87 | lifeless: lol | 20:36 |
| sdague | lifeless: ++ | 20:36 |
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| ttx | OK, next topic then | 20:36 |
| ttx | #topic add warning to release:independent | 20:36 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "add warning to release:independent (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:36 | |
| ttx | #link https://review.openstack.org/299309 | 20:37 |
| cdent | ("front" is very specific, perhaps "side") | 20:37 |
| ttx | I'll do my best impersonation of dhellmann for this one | 20:37 |
| ttx | Despite warnings, we had more than one project team realizing one week before Mitaka release that picking up an "independent" release model meant that they would not get listed in the "Mitaka" release page | 20:37 |
| ttx | Warnings including http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2016-January/083726.html | 20:37 |
| ttx | it was apparently not clear enough that "not following the release cycle and release completely independently" also meant "not being part of the common end-of-cycle release" | 20:37 |
| ttx | So this adds a warning to the tag description to further clarify that | 20:38 |
| flaper87 | makes sense to me! | 20:38 |
| ttx | Note, independently-released projects still get listed on the releases website | 20:38 |
| ttx | just not under "mitaka" | 20:38 |
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| ttx | We seem to have enough votes in support | 20:39 |
| ttx | so I'll approve this one now | 20:39 |
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| ttx | Thanks for him | 20:39 |
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| ttx | #topic Cross-project workshops at the Austin summit | 20:39 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Cross-project workshops at the Austin summit (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:39 | |
| ttx | sdague: floor is yours | 20:39 |
| sdague | we have 27 proposals here - https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/newton-cross-project-sessions | 20:39 |
| sdague | about 1/2 the TC has weighed in | 20:40 |
| sdague | we'll probably be targetting 21 slots | 20:40 |
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| sdague | and I'd like to do the sorting and slotting on Thursday | 20:40 |
| ttx | (same as in Vancouver and Tokyo) | 20:40 |
| sdague | so I'd ask that anyone on the TC that would like to voice opinions on the sessions please do so in the next 24 hours | 20:41 |
| flaper87 | ++ | 20:41 |
| ttx | hmm, no Vancouver only had 14 | 20:41 |
| anteaya | sdague: folks don't seem to feel that this is the right venue for my propsal (number 18) you can remove it | 20:41 |
| ttx | so.. same as Tokyo. | 20:41 |
| sdague | how does this time block on Thursday work for folks (in general)? as an adhoc time to do the scheduling | 20:42 |
| sdague | anteaya: sure | 20:42 |
| anteaya | thanks | 20:42 |
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| flaper87 | sdague: should work for me | 20:42 |
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| ttx | sdague: should be ok once I'm done with releasing | 20:42 |
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| ttx | though I'm usually drunk then | 20:42 |
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| sdague | drunk works | 20:43 |
| sdague | will make the schedule more fun | 20:43 |
| jeblair | ttx: as long as there's a picture | 20:43 |
| flaper87 | ttx: don't drink alone, dude! Bring the beverage to the meeting | 20:43 |
| ttx | jeblair: now it's all automated, no more paper | 20:43 |
| ttx | I blame dhellmann | 20:43 |
| jeblair | print out the git repo | 20:43 |
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| sdague | TC members welcome, though if you've expressed opinions on the etherpad, it should be mostly not required. We'll have whoever is here build some draft schedule, and get it out for friday for people to poke at conflicts | 20:44 |
| ttx | sdague: ok so... TC review sessions today/tomorrow, then we gather somewhere to do scheduling fun | 20:44 |
| ttx | on Thursday | 20:44 |
| sdague | yep | 20:44 |
| sdague | at this time block | 20:44 |
| sdague | /done | 20:44 |
| ttx | sounds good. I did not create placeholder sessions for the cross-project stuff on the summit schedule since I had no idea how many we'd run | 20:44 |
| jeblair | sdague: just to be clear, the list of nicks for etherpad color -- that shuld be tc members only, right? | 20:45 |
| sdague | jeblair: it should be | 20:45 |
| jeblair | ok. it may need some adjustment. | 20:45 |
| sdague | we had a few interlopers, but that was mostly cleaned up | 20:45 |
| anteaya | you still have sambetts|afk | 20:45 |
| sdague | anteaya: I don't know if there are any votes recorded though, I'll look | 20:45 |
| anteaya | k | 20:45 |
| ttx | #topic Video design summit moderator advice | 20:45 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Video design summit moderator advice (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:45 | |
| anteaya | I talked to someone last night and they removed themselves and their votes | 20:46 |
| ttx | We are organizing to record the video this week, should be ready sometimes next week | 20:46 |
| jeblair | anteaya: thx | 20:46 |
| sdague | anteaya: thanks | 20:46 |
| anteaya | jeblair: sdague welcome | 20:46 |
| ttx | I proposed we take the same people that suggested advice on the etherpad and volunteer them to record the video | 20:46 |
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| ttx | except dhellmann is away next week, and proposed to delegate his part to dims | 20:46 |
| flaper87 | sounds good to me | 20:47 |
| flaper87 | happy to help | 20:47 |
| ttx | so this is the plan, it will probably look bad in the end but probably the best we can do in the remaining time | 20:47 |
| * jeblair thinks everyone should delegate their part to flaper87 | 20:47 | |
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| ttx | shooting from the beach | 20:47 |
| flaper87 | wait, what did just happen? | 20:47 |
| shamail | I'll be glad to help with production or summary resulting from this video session | 20:47 |
| flaper87 | don't mess with my beach time | 20:47 |
| * dtroyer_zz has a beach nearby to shoot from if needed | 20:48 | |
| * anteaya notes audio is way easier to edit and looks don't matter | 20:48 | |
| ttx | shamail: ideally we'd turn that into something more long-term and well-recorded at some point | 20:48 |
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| ttx | #topic Open discussion | 20:48 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:48 | |
| lifeless | sdague: fine for me | 20:48 |
| lifeless | sdague: erm, actually, I may be on a call; will see | 20:49 |
| ttx | Alright, so time to buy jaypipes, lifeless, jeblair and markmcclain some drinks | 20:49 |
| lifeless | I will have commented either way | 20:49 |
| ttx | sdague: if we don't need lifeless we could move the scheduling stuff earlier | 20:49 |
| jeblair | cheers! :) | 20:49 |
| mordred | everyone needs lifeless | 20:49 |
| sdague | ttx: sure, either way | 20:49 |
| * edleafe hands them all a virtual drink | 20:49 | |
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| ttx | At 11pm I tend to be drunk /and/ grumpy | 20:50 |
| sdague | ttx: feel free to counter propose an earlier time block | 20:50 |
| ttx | sdague: an earlier time block would prevent lifeless from joining, so I'd like to be sure he can't participate anyway before suggesting an earlier time | 20:50 |
| lifeless | sdague: this time slot is definitely free thursday | 20:50 |
| sdague | I did this as default, because people are here. But it would let you be only medium drunk before participating if we move earlier | 20:50 |
| lifeless | ttx: ^ | 20:50 |
| ttx | lifeless: ok, let's keep it | 20:50 |
| flaper87 | jaypipes, lifeless, jeblair, markmcclain u guys rock! Thanks for all the insights, work and lessons you've taught me so far :) | 20:51 |
| ttx | and if I can't join you can probably figure it out | 20:51 |
| sdague | lifeless: right, your friday | 20:51 |
| edleafe | sdague: so thoughtful | 20:51 |
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| lifeless | sdague: yes | 20:51 |
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| sdague | ttx: yeh, it will be draft schedule, I'll circle with you later in doing any pushes to the site | 20:51 |
| ttx | Anything else, anyone ? | 20:52 |
| sdague | so we can do it without you. | 20:52 |
| ttx | Release not looking too bad, except Keystone playing RC respin late fun | 20:52 |
| sdague | if anyone has strong opinions about things looking like they might be near the cutline, please leave detailed notes to help with making those decisions | 20:52 |
| ttx | and dhellmann being pretty good at placing vacation time :) | 20:52 |
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| ttx | good thing he mostly automated himself out of the release PTL job already | 20:53 |
| dims | LOL | 20:53 |
| * flaper87 wants to automate himself | 20:53 | |
| sdake | i wish i could automate myself out of a job ;) | 20:53 |
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| ttx | Remember to vote for the TC election if you haven't already. Next week we'll gather the newly-elected members | 20:53 |
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| flaper87 | ++ | 20:54 |
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| ttx | (if we are still around) | 20:54 |
| ttx | Any other discussion topic ? | 20:54 |
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| russellb | some group will gather, we assume | 20:55 |
| annegentle | any need for a post prior to summit? | 20:55 |
| annegentle | blog post | 20:55 |
| ttx | Keystone RC calls, so I don't mind closing shop early | 20:55 |
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| annegentle | not at all :) | 20:55 |
| flaper87 | annegentle: don't think so, perhaps next week | 20:55 |
| anteaya | ttx: thank you | 20:55 |
| ttx | annegentle: we could talk about the mission statement change | 20:55 |
| jeblair | finishing early is a good way to end the session :) | 20:55 |
| flaper87 | but I don't think we'll need one until after the summit | 20:55 |
| ttx | but I think we covered it in a previous edition | 20:55 |
| * flaper87 stfu | 20:55 | |
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| annegentle | flaper87: sounds good ttx prolly already covered well enough | 20:56 |
| russellb | ttx: it's also not really substantial, not important to promote or anything | 20:56 |
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| ttx | russellb: it *is* important but I think a past article basically mentioned it as done | 20:57 |
| russellb | ok. | 20:57 |
| ttx | but then our friendly comms team can decide | 20:57 |
| * ttx checks | 20:57 | |
| flaper87 | It was mentioned as done, AFAIR | 20:57 |
| flaper87 | I think we're ok, tbh | 20:57 |
| ttx | hmmm | 20:58 |
| flaper87 | I don't mind doing a small blog post just for it but I think we're good. | 20:58 |
| ttx | http://www.openstack.org/blog/2016/01/technical-committee-highlights-january-22-2016/ | 20:58 |
| ttx | it's a bit light, we don't even cite it | 20:58 |
| flaper87 | ok, I guess we can have a blog post mentioning this | 20:58 |
| annegentle | heh | 20:58 |
| ttx | so maybe cover that and farewell to our long-standing members / mention new elected members | 20:59 |
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| flaper87 | I'll work on one and ask for reviews | 20:59 |
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| annegentle | I think it's nice to do a wrap up one yeah ttx | 20:59 |
| russellb | ttx: +1 | 20:59 |
| ttx | http://www.openstack.org/blog/2016/03/technical-committee-highlights-march-21-2016/ mentions it too but light too | 20:59 |
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| ttx | Alright. Thanks everyone. This mitaka session went fast but it was not bad :) | 21:00 |
| ttx | #endmeeting | 21:00 |
| annegentle | it was fast! | 21:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 21:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Apr 5 21:00:30 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 21:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2016/tc.2016-04-05-20.01.html | 21:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2016/tc.2016-04-05-20.01.txt | 21:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2016/tc.2016-04-05-20.01.log.html | 21:00 |
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