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| joehuang | hello | 13:03 |
|---|---|---|
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| gampel | hi joe | 13:03 |
| joehuang | hi gampel | 13:03 |
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| joehuang | let's have a short meeting of tricircle | 13:05 |
| saggi | hi | 13:05 |
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| joehuang | hi saggi | 13:05 |
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| joehuang | hi irena | 13:05 |
| saggi | in 10 secs I'll have some nova patches up | 13:05 |
| joehuang | great, saggi | 13:05 |
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| joehuang | #startmeeting tricircle | 13:06 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Aug 26 13:06:06 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is joehuang. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 13:06 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 13:06 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: tricircle)" | 13:06 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'tricircle' | 13:06 |
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| joehuang | #topic rollcall | 13:06 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "rollcall (Meeting topic: tricircle)" | 13:06 | |
| gampel | #info gampel | 13:07 |
| joehuang | #info joehuang | 13:07 |
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| saggi | #info saggi | 13:07 |
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| irenab | hi | 13:08 |
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| joehuang | hi irena, rollcall now | 13:08 |
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| * irenab : will attend partially, have conflicting meeting | 13:08 | |
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| joehuang | understand, thanks | 13:08 |
| joehuang | hi zhiyuan | 13:08 |
| zhiyuan_ | hi joe | 13:08 |
| irenab | #info irenab | 13:09 |
| zhiyuan_ | #info zhiyuan | 13:09 |
| joehuang | #topic recent progress | 13:09 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "recent progress (Meeting topic: tricircle)" | 13:09 | |
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| gampel | saggi can you please explain what you did in nova and why | 13:09 |
| joehuang | we have a design meeting this Monday about network connectivity | 13:10 |
| joehuang | yes, please | 13:10 |
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| saggi | As I spoke about in previous meeting. I thought up a way too implement what we need without changing nova core code. | 13:10 |
| joehuang | how | 13:11 |
| saggi | What I did was to hook up the scheduler and have the cascade_service appear to be multiple nova-compute hosts | 13:11 |
| joehuang | sorry now shown last meeting | 13:11 |
| saggi | joehuang: Takes time to type :) | 13:11 |
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| saggi | So the general idea is that when the user wants to run a VM we get the scheduling information in the cascade_service since it's registers as the scheduler. Look at the AZ and return the node_name of the site. | 13:12 |
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| saggi | In the cascade service we have a compute_service per site | 13:12 |
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| saggi | so the cascade service always gets the request. | 13:13 |
| joehuang | the cascade service as a schedluer? | 13:13 |
| saggi | and multiple compute nodes :) | 13:13 |
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| saggi | can you guys connect to imgur or is it blocked? | 13:13 |
| joehuang | what's imgur | 13:13 |
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| zhiyuan_ | i can access | 13:14 |
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| zhiyuan_ | http://imgur.com/ this url, right? | 13:14 |
| saggi | yes | 13:14 |
| joehuang | which cascade service node will be called for reboot/etc VM operation? | 13:14 |
| saggi | http://i.imgur.com/za5kZpy.png | 13:15 |
| joehuang | ok, I can access too | 13:15 |
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| saggi | In this case I have 2 fake sites and they look like to compute hosts | 13:15 |
| saggi | They are all actually the cascade service | 13:16 |
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| saggi | in the hypervisor view you can see that they are cascade sites http://i.imgur.com/tNWeDIn.png | 13:16 |
| joehuang | go on please | 13:16 |
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| saggi | This is what I have ATM. You can register how many sites you want and they will appear as compute hosts. | 13:18 |
| saggi | And you can control all the stats from the cascade service | 13:18 |
| joehuang | shall the cascade service to collect resource usage from bottom OpenStack | 13:19 |
| saggi | Yes | 13:19 |
| saggi | We will use the site aggregate stats as the host stats | 13:19 |
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| saggi | What I need to add next is the actual scheduler logic that uses AZs to select the host | 13:20 |
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| joehuang | so one cascade service will handle one bottom openstack | 13:20 |
| saggi | no one cascade service will handle N bottom openstacks | 13:21 |
| saggi | At the start we will have only one cascade service | 13:21 |
| joehuang | only one cascade service? | 13:21 |
| saggi | yes | 13:22 |
| saggi | For now | 13:22 |
| saggi | The design allows for more. | 13:22 |
| zhiyuan_ | where is the compute service running? I think for each bottom OS we need one compute service | 13:22 |
| joehuang | the availability need to be in consideration | 13:22 |
| saggi | The compute service isn't running anywhere. It's fake. | 13:22 |
| gampel | first we need to establish flow end to end | 13:22 |
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| saggi | It represents a whole site. | 13:23 |
| gampel | we are not sure that the cascading service will be the bottleneck, depends on the run time info module (push ,pull) and who will do that job | 13:23 |
| saggi | The design allows distributing the fake hosts across multiple cascade services. | 13:24 |
| saggi | But we don't want to start coding all the synchronization that this requires just now | 13:24 |
| joehuang | do you mean two nodes for one bottom openstack | 13:25 |
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| joehuang | to make flow work is compared simple | 13:25 |
| gampel | No every cascaded service handle one or more bottom sites | 13:25 |
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| zhiyuan_ | ic, so there is no rpc between scheduler and computer service, just function call? | 13:26 |
| saggi | You need to have a single point to handle requests for a single site to have correct ordering of operations. | 13:26 |
| saggi | there is no communication between them in nova. | 13:26 |
| saggi | But because we are both the scheduler and the compute host we can pass information between them in the cascade layer. | 13:26 |
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| joehuang | so how to forward the RPC call like reboot VM from API to cascade service | 13:27 |
| saggi | So that we don't loose the scheduling information when passing the create call down to the bottom OS | 13:27 |
| saggi | Nova will contact the fake host. Which is the cascade service itself. | 13:27 |
| joehuang | ok, the RPC call will be forwarded to fixed fake call right | 13:28 |
| joehuang | ok, the RPC call will be forwarded to fixed fake noderight | 13:28 |
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| joehuang | that means if you add more cascade service | 13:29 |
| saggi | yes, which is just an instance inside the cascade service. | 13:29 |
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| joehuang | the RPC call will still forward to the same fake node | 13:29 |
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| saggi | Yes, since it's the one managing that host | 13:30 |
| joehuang | then how to scale out | 13:30 |
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| joehuang | and if this fake node failed | 13:31 |
| joehuang | which cascade service node will be selected for the bottom opentsack | 13:31 |
| saggi | The scheduler tell nova what fake host to use. | 13:31 |
| joehuang | and how to redirect the API rpc call to the new cascade service nod | 13:31 |
| saggi | This makes nova contact the correct cascade_service | 13:32 |
| saggi | this allows you to scale out | 13:32 |
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| joehuang | but in the database all VM have already been allocated for the fake node | 13:32 |
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| joehuang | if the cascade service will act as the new fake node (the same old name ) | 13:33 |
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| saggi | yes | 13:33 |
| saggi | as for redundancy, you could have an active passive set up where cascade services spin up fake node on another cascade service and it will handle the requests. | 13:33 |
| saggi | Spinning a fake node is just listening on the proper queue | 13:34 |
| gampel | we do not see a problem of HA/scaling in this design | 13:34 |
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| gampel | I think that we need to agree that HA is in the design but will be handled after we have end to end flow | 13:34 |
| saggi | There are issues with VNC connections. | 13:34 |
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| saggi | which will probably have to be reestablished since the proxy IP will change. | 13:34 |
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| saggi | But all commands that use the message queue will be uneffected. | 13:34 |
| gampel | i am not sure regarding the vnc when we get there we could offload the connection directly to the bottom OS | 13:35 |
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| saggi | Since the passive cascade service will spin up a fake host and listen on that topic | 13:35 |
| saggi | gampel: maybe | 13:35 |
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| joehuang | what's the benefit compared to the PoC, where one compute-node will proxy one bottom openstack | 13:36 |
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| gampel | small code change not intrusive very clear to understand what we changed and why, one service could handle multi bottom sites | 13:37 |
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| joehuang | for PoC code, all RPC from scheduler/API kept as before | 13:38 |
| saggi | It's also easier for us, at least at the start. To assume a single cascade service and don't worry about ordering and distribution of information across multiple nodes. | 13:38 |
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| joehuang | if one cascade service will be reponsible for multiple bottom openstack, then is there any issue for the fanout RPC call from neutron API | 13:40 |
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| saggi | You need to take control of the scheduler anyway so you don't loose the scheduling information in the cascade layer so you can pass it to the bottom scheduler. | 13:41 |
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| joehuang | no duplicated fake node allowed for multiple cascade service | 13:41 |
| gampel | the Neutron /Nova layer will not be aware of the cascading cascading service layout so it must do funout | 13:41 |
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| gampel | can you say aging i did not understand ? | 13:42 |
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| joehuang | if you use fanout, then no two fake node ( cascade service ) to work for one bottom openstack | 13:43 |
| gampel | I suggest that Saggi and me will ad the new nova to the design doc and we could discuss it there (we will add the high level design for HA ) | 13:44 |
| joehuang | if you use fanout, then two fake nodes ( cascade services ) to work for one bottom openstack not allowed | 13:44 |
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| gampel | no as saggi said we have only one active CS working on a bottom site | 13:44 |
| joehuang | if there a lot of API calls for one bottom OpenStack, then other fake node should be moved to other cascade service | 13:45 |
| gampel | i suggest we will discuss this in the document and mailing list so we will have time to discuss the status of other tasks | 13:45 |
| joehuang | but unfortunately, it's un-estimatble | 13:45 |
| joehuang | at last | 13:45 |
| joehuang | we have to deploy one cascade service for one bottom openstack | 13:46 |
| gampel | saggi will send his patch today and we will have documentation about it | 13:46 |
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| joehuang | ok | 13:47 |
| gampel | we do not agree with that statement and will but lets discuss this with proper design doc intruder | 13:48 |
| joehuang | good | 13:48 |
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| gampel | what is the status of the API , DAL --> Neutron , Nova | 13:48 |
| joehuang | the more discussion, the better | 13:48 |
| saggi | joehuang: :) | 13:49 |
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| joehuang | zhiyuan is working on it | 13:49 |
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| joehuang | keystone part has been settled | 13:50 |
| zhiyuan_ | yes, I find that we need to store the endpoint url in the database, since normal user cannot get endpoint via "endpoint-list" | 13:50 |
| joehuang | agree | 13:50 |
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| gampel | can you explain a bit more please | 13:51 |
| saggi | as cachgin? | 13:51 |
| saggi | caching? | 13:51 |
| joehuang | and I will change back the site tables for url storage | 13:51 |
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| joehuang | no caching, because the endpoint can only get through admin | 13:51 |
| zhiyuan_ | context and site id is passed to DAL, then DAL query the database the get the endpoint url according to the site id and resource type from the database | 13:52 |
| joehuang | but we don't want to configure the admin information in configuration | 13:52 |
| gampel | are we talking about the DAL to the -->TOP neutron ,nova | 13:52 |
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| saggi | zhiyuan_: How will we make sure everything is synced than? | 13:52 |
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| joehuang | so restore to the table design in the doc | 13:52 |
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| saggi | How will we make sure it's all configured correctly? Keystone and cascade? | 13:53 |
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| saggi | Make sure nothing was changes at only one end | 13:54 |
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| zhiyuan_ | We have the siteserviceconfiguration table in the design doc, this is to store the url information. | 13:55 |
| zhiyuan_ | User needs to register this information via cascade API | 13:55 |
| saggi | Yes, but if the admin changes the information in keystone. How will we know? | 13:55 |
| joehuang | saggi wants to know how to validate the url | 13:55 |
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| joehuang | this could be done in API. but if later change happen in keystone, then the admin has to reconfigure cascade service too | 13:56 |
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| zhiyuan_ | Or we give cascade service an admin account to sync the change | 13:57 |
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| saggi | zhiyuan_: I think we will need an admin account anyway. For information from nova and neutron. | 13:58 |
| joehuang | do we want to have admin account configuration in cascade service | 13:58 |
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| saggi | gampel: can you think about any APIs we need right now that are admin only. | 13:58 |
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| joehuang | if yes, then cache works | 13:58 |
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| joehuang | if not, the store the url in db | 13:59 |
| gampel | in the bottom we hope to avoid admin call | 13:59 |
| joehuang | API could be controlled by policy | 13:59 |
| saggi | Top | 13:59 |
| saggi | joehuang: We could have a sync_keystone() call that requires an admin context. | 13:59 |
| saggi | If syncing keystone is our only issue. | 14:00 |
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| gampel | i think this will work | 14:00 |
| saggi | I'll probably call it something different though :) | 14:00 |
| joehuang | yes, if we want to get endpoint from keystone, then admin context is needed | 14:00 |
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| gampel | and then we could use the keystone regions | 14:01 |
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| saggi | What I mean is that instead of having API to add URIs have an API to sync that information. | 14:01 |
| joehuang | so conclusion is that we configure admin information in cascade service | 14:01 |
| zhiyuan_ | if we have the admin account, I think we can also use it to get the endpoints. Is there any reason we should limit the use of the admin account? | 14:01 |
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| joehuang | I got gampel's idea, use one api to refresh endpoint information from keystone, and store them in db | 14:03 |
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| gampel | I do not see problem having admin API to keystone and TOP i hope to avoid admin on the bottoms | 14:03 |
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| zhiyuan_ | joehuang: so db works as a cache? | 14:04 |
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| joehuang | I think so. how about your ideas | 14:04 |
| annegentle | knock knock | 14:05 |
| saggi | We gotta bail guys | 14:05 |
| zhiyuan_ | oh, we run out of time again.... | 14:05 |
| annegentle | :) | 14:05 |
| joehuang | we have to end meeting now. | 14:05 |
| gampel | let switch to the #openstack-tricircle | 14:05 |
| joehuang | byr | 14:05 |
| saggi | #neutron-tricircle ? | 14:05 |
| joehuang | bye | 14:05 |
| joehuang | #endmeeting | 14:05 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 14:05 | |
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| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Aug 26 14:05:45 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 14:05 |
| saggi | sorry #openstack-tricircle ? | 14:05 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tricircle/2015/tricircle.2015-08-26-13.06.html | 14:05 |
| zhiyuan_ | bye | 14:05 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tricircle/2015/tricircle.2015-08-26-13.06.txt | 14:05 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tricircle/2015/tricircle.2015-08-26-13.06.log.html | 14:05 |
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| annegentle | #startmeeting docteam | 14:06 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Aug 26 14:06:12 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is annegentle. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 14:06 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 14:06 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: docteam)" | 14:06 | |
| annegentle | hi all, welcome | 14:06 |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'docteam' | 14:06 |
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| annegentle | I'm starting the meeting for Shilla | 14:06 |
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| annegentle | Agenda is here: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/DocTeamMeeting#Agenda_for_next_meeting | 14:06 |
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| annegentle | let's look at any action items from last time | 14:07 |
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| annegentle | Seeing none, I move we move on :) | 14:07 |
| AJaeger | HI annegentle | 14:07 |
| annegentle | hey AJaeger | 14:07 |
| annegentle | anyone else here, raise your hand for doc team meeting? | 14:07 |
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| gpocentek | I'm more or less here | 14:08 |
| AJaeger | hi gpocentek ! | 14:08 |
| gpocentek | hey Andreas :) | 14:08 |
| annegentle | hey gpocentek! | 14:08 |
| annegentle | we'll take the more or less :) | 14:09 |
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| gpocentek | hi Anne, ok :) | 14:09 |
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| annegentle | #topic #Liberty specs in review | 14:09 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "#Liberty specs in review (Meeting topic: docteam)" | 14:09 | |
| annegentle | I think there are two left | 14:09 |
| annegentle | The API docs one with the updates for "narrative" or conceptual topics merged | 14:10 |
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| annegentle | #link http://specs.openstack.org/openstack/docs-specs/specs/liberty/api-site.html | 14:10 |
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| annegentle | Third party driver docs still has a task assignment,for purging | 14:11 |
| annegentle | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/191041/ | 14:11 |
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| annegentle | And I think there's a fairly fresh one to improve the Arch Design Guide | 14:11 |
| AJaeger | The arch-design RST conversion spec merged | 14:11 |
| annegentle | Oh I still see it with two +2s but no merge | 14:12 |
| annegentle | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/216106/ | 14:12 |
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| annegentle | Ah, awaiting Shilla's approval | 14:12 |
| annegentle | #info Arch Design doc updates spec awaiting Shilla's review and approval | 14:13 |
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| annegentle | next topic | 14:13 |
| annegentle | #topic Speciality teams | 14:13 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Speciality teams (Meeting topic: docteam)" | 14:13 | |
| annegentle | Any report on HA Guide? | 14:13 |
| annegentle | #info HA Guide - RST migration complete, need help with updating content. | 14:14 |
| annegentle | Next team | 14:14 |
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| annegentle | Install Guides, anyone reporting? Looks like they had a calendar snafu. | 14:14 |
| AJaeger | HA guide team is not clear how to continue with publishing - keeping current content or publishing RST one. | 14:14 |
| annegentle | #info Install Guides - RST migration complete, testing for Liberty now, content works for keystone, glance, nova, and neutron (but he didn't say which distro) | 14:15 |
| annegentle | AJaeger: did the content change? | 14:15 |
| annegentle | AJaeger: meaning, it's not updated enough to publish? | 14:15 |
| AJaeger | annegentle: on in small areas, so to me it looks like it's not worse than what we have ;) | 14:15 |
| AJaeger | But I got no response from the team in the last few days | 14:16 |
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| annegentle | AJaeger: ah ok | 14:16 |
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| annegentle | #action HA Guide team needs to determine whether to start publish RST version | 14:16 |
| annegentle | Anyone here for Networking Guide team? | 14:17 |
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| annegentle | They meet on Fridays, not sure if they met last week. | 14:17 |
| ShillaSaebi | hello! | 14:17 |
| ShillaSaebi | sorry I'm late | 14:17 |
| annegentle | hey ShillaSaebi! | 14:17 |
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| annegentle | Just going through specialty teams now, up to networking | 14:17 |
| ShillaSaebi | awesome | 14:17 |
| annegentle | Anyone here from security team? | 14:18 |
| sicarie | hello | 14:18 |
| annegentle | hey sicarie got any updates for Networking? | 14:18 |
| sicarie | No, but I can speak to Security :) | 14:18 |
| annegentle | sicarie: sounds good | 14:18 |
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| ShillaSaebi | I was at the ops mid cycle meetup and it was mentioned for people to go through the Networking guide and review it if possible | 14:18 |
| sicarie | We completed the RST migration about two weeks ago (thanks again AJaeger!) | 14:18 |
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| sicarie | Right now we're scoping what we'd like to do for the next paper version - we'd like to get it updated before the Summit | 14:19 |
| AJaeger | sicarie: you and the team did the major work, I just pushed you over the edge ;) | 14:19 |
| sicarie | And then there should be a discussion on how the paper version should be maintained - on what cadence | 14:19 |
| sicarie | AJaeger, but they were great pushes! | 14:19 |
| AJaeger | sicarie: we currently do not build PDFs, somebody needs to evaluate this. | 14:19 |
| sicarie | Yes | 14:19 |
| annegentle | sicarie: right | 14:19 |
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| sicarie | Right now we're trying to determine if anything is 'missing' that woudl be critical from a security perspective | 14:20 |
| AJaeger | sicarie: there's rst2pdf and it worked locally - give it a try. | 14:20 |
| annegentle | sicarie: so the team does want printed available on Lulu? | 14:20 |
| sicarie | anngentle: If we don't, we need to take that option down | 14:20 |
| sicarie | Though I'm not sure i've seen it since the RST migration | 14:20 |
| sicarie | The current lulu copy is 1.0, which is ... very old and is now very inaccurate | 14:21 |
| annegentle | AJaeger: if you do evaluate, you need the Lulu requirements for PDF. | 14:21 |
| annegentle | AJaeger: let me dig them up | 14:21 |
| annegentle | sicarie: I can take it down | 14:21 |
| sicarie | annegentle: thanks! | 14:21 |
| AJaeger | annegentle: I won't have time to evaluate ;( | 14:21 |
| annegentle | #action annegentle to remove PDF of Security Guide from lulu.com | 14:21 |
| annegentle | I think that's the right way forward | 14:22 |
| annegentle | and done | 14:22 |
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| annegentle | Anything else on security or networking? | 14:22 |
| sicarie | Nope - just focusing on current bugs | 14:22 |
| annegentle | How about User Guides - and Cloud Admin Guide | 14:22 |
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| annegentle | #info User Guides - Cloud Admin Guide RST migration complete, work starting on reorganisation. | 14:23 |
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| AJaeger | We still have some old URLs... | 14:23 |
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| annegentle | AJaeger: with /content right? | 14:23 |
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| AJaeger | annegentle: yeah ;( | 14:24 |
| annegentle | #link http://docs.openstack.org/admin-guide-cloud/ | 14:24 |
| annegentle | it's really beautiful though :) | 14:24 |
| annegentle | AJaeger: and redirects are in place? | 14:24 |
| AJaeger | annegentle: redirects to index.html | 14:24 |
| AJaeger | not to single pages - each URL is different ;( | 14:24 |
| annegentle | AJaeger: ah, right. | 14:25 |
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| annegentle | Ok anything else on user guides? | 14:25 |
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| annegentle | Ok onward to Ops Guide and Arch Design Guide | 14:26 |
| ShillaSaebi | ok | 14:26 |
| annegentle | #info Ops/Arch Guides - Arch Guide swarm was a success. Plans for reorganisation in Mitaka. | 14:26 |
| ShillaSaebi | #Info Two specs have been drafted for the Architecture Design Guide: #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/214949/ and #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/216106/ | 14:26 |
| annegentle | And that's the spec yup | 14:26 |
| annegentle | ShillaSaebi: Lana asked for your approval | 14:26 |
| ShillaSaebi | Ok I will make sure I take care of that today | 14:26 |
| ShillaSaebi | The corresponding blueprints: #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/openstack-manuals/+spec/archguide-mitaka-reorg  and #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/openstack-manuals/+spec/archguide-mitaka-rst | 14:26 |
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| annegentle | thanks | 14:26 |
| annegentle | Nice work on the swarm, I heard it was a great time and I'm so glad we have more cores on that side of the world | 14:27 |
| annegentle | :) | 14:27 |
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| ShillaSaebi | for the Ops guide, we discussed having a doc day maybe 1 day after or before the next mid cycle meetup to have people update the guides | 14:27 |
| annegentle | In the ops guide there are upgrade instructions. | 14:27 |
| annegentle | Wanted to point to comments in https://bugs.launchpad.net/openstack-manuals/+bug/1486250 | 14:28 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1486250 in openstack-manuals "Add upgrade path for Juno to Kilo" [Undecided,Won't fix] | 14:28 |
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| annegentle | intending to change the way we document upgrades | 14:28 |
| ShillaSaebi | ok | 14:28 |
| annegentle | Thought this is a good place to communicate that | 14:28 |
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| annegentle | Anything else on those? | 14:28 |
| ShillaSaebi | ok | 14:29 |
| ShillaSaebi | nope | 14:29 |
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| annegentle | ok | 14:29 |
| annegentle | on to API docs | 14:29 |
| annegentle | I sent out a status update last week | 14:30 |
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| ShillaSaebi | still looking for Python dev to help out? | 14:30 |
| ShillaSaebi | devs* | 14:30 |
| annegentle | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2015-August/072557.html | 14:30 |
| annegentle | team by team there are joiners :) | 14:31 |
| ShillaSaebi | ok I think I have someone in mind that may be able to help, will send them your way | 14:31 |
| annegentle | another update is that there's a lot of activity on this thread about generating requests and responses | 14:31 |
| annegentle | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2015-August/072743.html | 14:31 |
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| annegentle | Also, if you're interested in the Compute 2.1 api, see this etherpad | 14:32 |
| annegentle | ##link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/nova-v2.1-api-doc | 14:32 |
| annegentle | ShillaSaebi: thanks :) | 14:32 |
| ShillaSaebi | cool! | 14:32 |
| annegentle | That's it for API docs | 14:32 |
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| annegentle | Anything on config ref? | 14:33 |
| annegentle | gpocentek: any news? | 14:33 |
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| gpocentek | annegentle: not much no :( | 14:33 |
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| annegentle | gpocentek: ok fair enough, no news may be good news :) | 14:33 |
| ShillaSaebi | heh | 14:33 |
| annegentle | I want to say "nothing is on fire" for the notes :) | 14:34 |
| ShillaSaebi | thats a good thing | 14:34 |
| ShillaSaebi | no complaints here! | 14:34 |
| annegentle | #info Config Ref No news to report | 14:34 |
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| annegentle | Anyone here from training labs? | 14:34 |
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| AJaeger | Pranav is working on setting up the new repository | 14:34 |
| annegentle | Want to make sure you all know we have the training labs specialty team and looks like we'll also add the training guides specialty team | 14:34 |
| annegentle | AJaeger: great | 14:34 |
| ShillaSaebi | oh so they will be separate | 14:35 |
| annegentle | #info training labs contact person is Pranav Salunke | 14:35 |
| ShillaSaebi | ok good to know, I thought they were still going to be bundled into 1 | 14:35 |
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| ShillaSaebi | and Majtaz will be the contact for training guides right? | 14:35 |
| annegentle | #info training guides contact person is Matjaz Pancur | 14:35 |
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| AJaeger | ShillaSaebi: yes for now | 14:35 |
| annegentle | Should have an email to the list this week | 14:36 |
| annegentle | Sean has stepped down from training guides | 14:36 |
| AJaeger | Give loquacities an action item ;) | 14:36 |
| annegentle | so I think it's pretty well sorted! | 14:36 |
| ShillaSaebi | cool | 14:36 |
| annegentle | AJaeger: it's Matjaz's comm to make I believe | 14:36 |
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| annegentle | Ok any other specialty team reports or news? | 14:37 |
| annegentle | ShillaSaebi: can I hand over the note taking and topic making? :) | 14:37 |
| annegentle | ShillaSaebi: you can go through the rest of the agenda | 14:37 |
| ShillaSaebi | sure thing, thanks a lot for stepping in today | 14:37 |
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| annegentle | np! | 14:37 |
| ShillaSaebi | missing my exit set me back 20 minutes hah | 14:37 |
| AJaeger | we released openstack-doc-tools 0.30.0 and I have 0.30.1 to release: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/217028/ to fix Japanese Debian Install Guide | 14:37 |
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| AJaeger | openstackdocstheme 1.2.1 was released as well | 14:38 |
| ShillaSaebi | nice | 14:38 |
| ShillaSaebi | #topic Countdown to Liberty | 14:38 |
| ShillaSaebi | #info We are getting closer to the summit #link http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/launch?iso=20151015T00&p0=1440&msg=OpenStack+Liberty+Launch+Date&font=hand | 14:39 |
| AJaeger | annegentle: I think only you as starter of the meeting can use the magic #topic etc. | 14:39 |
| annegentle | ahh | 14:39 |
| dbite | annegentle: Im here | 14:39 |
| annegentle | #topic Countdown to Liberty! | 14:39 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Countdown to Liberty! (Meeting topic: docteam)" | 14:39 | |
| annegentle | Now with more exclamation points! | 14:40 |
| ShillaSaebi | ahhhh the torch is handed back | 14:40 |
| annegentle | hey dbite! | 14:40 |
| ShillaSaebi | hi dbite | 14:40 |
| dbite | hello | 14:40 |
| annegentle | anything to report? | 14:40 |
| dbite | We have decided to have two meetings every alternating Thrus, I will announce it in the ML, some part of repo migration is done, some is remaining. | 14:41 |
| annegentle | #info 46 days until liberty release | 14:41 |
| annegentle | excellent | 14:41 |
| ShillaSaebi | time is flying by | 14:42 |
| annegentle | #info training labs will have meetings alternating Thursdays, look for ML post with details. Migration nearly complete, work remains. | 14:42 |
| annegentle | #link http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/launch?iso=20151015T00&p0=1440&msg=OpenStack+Liberty+Launch+Date&font=hand | 14:42 |
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| annegentle | I know, crazy. | 14:42 |
| annegentle | Today people should find out if their Summit talks are accepted | 14:42 |
| dbite | annegentle: training labs is renamed as OpenStack Labs too. | 14:42 |
| ShillaSaebi | great, looking forward to it! | 14:42 |
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| annegentle | #link https://www.openstack.org/summit/tokyo-2015/tokyo-and-travel/#visa | 14:44 |
| AJaeger | dbite, annegentle : Can you really name it "OpenSTack Labs" ? I thought it needs offiical blessing by the foundation | 14:44 |
| amandap | annegentle: Great, everyone I know is eager to hear if they were picked | 14:44 |
| annegentle | AJaeger: dbite: we discussed in their meeting this week | 14:44 |
| annegentle | dbite: using openstack in the repo name isn't needed | 14:44 |
| annegentle | and, using OpenStack is a trademark and requires brand permission | 14:45 |
| annegentle | dbite: I think you had a poor net connection but can read the logs | 14:45 |
| annegentle | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/201160/ | 14:45 |
| annegentle | dbite: hope that helps | 14:46 |
| annegentle | naming, it's tough :) | 14:46 |
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| annegentle | Any one need help with ATC passes? Another round will go out. | 14:48 |
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| annegentle | That's it for Liberty release and Summit news I believe. | 14:48 |
| annegentle | #topic APAC Meetups | 14:48 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "APAC Meetups (Meeting topic: docteam)" | 14:49 | |
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| annegentle | Thanks to Suyog for organizing the swarm! And to the contributors | 14:49 |
| annegentle | #topic Spotlight bugs | 14:49 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Spotlight bugs (Meeting topic: docteam)" | 14:49 | |
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| annegentle | Look for these in the weekly What's up doc? | 14:49 |
| annegentle | #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/openstack-manuals/+bug/1257018 | 14:49 |
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| annegentle | still unassigned | 14:49 |
| dbite | Sorry, I lost connection for a bit. Ok, I will remove the name openstack and just keep it labs then. WIll need to edit the spec too. | 14:49 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1257018 in openstack-manuals "VPNaaS isn't documented in cloud admin" [Medium,Confirmed] | 14:49 |
| annegentle | dbite: thanks | 14:49 |
| annegentle | #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/openstack-manuals/+bug/1257656 | 14:50 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1257656 in openstack-manuals " VMware: add support for VM diagnostics" [Medium,Confirmed] | 14:50 |
| annegentle | This one has an assignee, woo! | 14:50 |
| annegentle | #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/openstack-manuals/+bug/1261969 | 14:50 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1261969 in openstack-manuals "Document nova server package (WAS: Enable remote debugging for nova)" [Low,Confirmed] - Assigned to Atsushi SAKAI (sakaia) | 14:50 |
| annegentle | #topic Open discussion | 14:50 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: docteam)" | 14:50 | |
| annegentle | want to be sure to leave plenty of time for discussion if there's anything | 14:50 |
| annegentle | You all know stackforge is retiring, right? | 14:50 |
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| AJaeger | annegentle: better say: stackforge namespace is retiring. | 14:52 |
| AJaeger | repos can be created in openstack namespace with some rules like stackforge today | 14:52 |
| AJaeger | s/some/same/ | 14:52 |
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| dbite | I have a weird question, not sure if this is the right place, but is there HP in the license name of setup.py's? I was under the impression that all the licenses should have openStack Foundation http://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack/openstack-manuals/tree/doc/contributor-guide/setup.py | 14:53 |
| amandap | AJaeger: Is that being planned or just something that could happen? | 14:53 |
| AJaeger | amandap: already announced, read the posts on openstack-dev by James Blair | 14:54 |
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| AJaeger | time to close the meeting? | 14:59 |
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| AJaeger | annegentle: ? | 15:01 |
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| Helimaniac | Seconded | 15:01 |
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| AJaeger | Helimaniac: seems we lost our chair, I'm sorry ;( | 15:02 |
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| annegentle | #endmeeting | 15:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 15:02 | |
| annegentle | sorry | 15:02 |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Aug 26 15:02:40 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 15:02 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/docteam/2015/docteam.2015-08-26-14.06.html | 15:02 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/docteam/2015/docteam.2015-08-26-14.06.txt | 15:02 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/docteam/2015/docteam.2015-08-26-14.06.log.html | 15:02 |
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| jgriffith | cinder meeting? | 15:59 |
| mtanino_ | hi, | 15:59 |
| vincent_hou | meeting | 15:59 |
| jgriffith | #startmeeting cinder | 15:59 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Aug 26 15:59:48 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is jgriffith. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 15:59 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 15:59 |
| eharney | hi | 15:59 |
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| patrickeast | Hi | 15:59 |
| rajinir | hi | 15:59 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: cinder)" | 15:59 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'cinder' | 15:59 |
| rhe00 | hi | 15:59 |
| geguileo | Hi | 15:59 |
| jgriffith | Hey everyone | 15:59 |
| Swanson | Hello. | 15:59 |
| smcginnis | o/ | 15:59 |
| vincent_hou | Hi | 15:59 |
| tbarron | hi | 15:59 |
| thangp | o/ | 15:59 |
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| mtanino_ | o/ | 16:00 |
| dulek | o/ | 16:00 |
| wilson2 | hi | 16:00 |
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| winston-d | o/ | 16:00 |
| jgriffith | We have an agenda this week posted here: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/CinderMeetings | 16:00 |
| xyang | hi | 16:00 |
| hemna | boink | 16:00 |
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| scottda | hi | 16:00 |
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| tim_o | hi | 16:00 |
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| jgriffith | A lot to go through so let's take a run at it... | 16:00 |
| dannywilson | hi | 16:00 |
| jgriffith | mtanino_: ready? | 16:00 |
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| mtanino_ | yup | 16:00 |
| mtanino_ | Get Volume Driver Capabilities patch (mtanino) | 16:00 |
| jgriffith | #topic Get driver capabilities | 16:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Get driver capabilities (Meeting topic: cinder)" | 16:00 | |
| breitz | hi | 16:00 |
| mtanino_ | Hi, about Get Volume Driver Capabilities patch, | 16:00 |
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| mtanino_ | I'd like to have opinions for naming policy of propoerties. | 16:00 |
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| smcginnis | mtanino_: I'd rather not use vendor_name. | 16:01 |
| mtanino_ | In this feature, we have two types of properties, "cinder well defined keys" and "vendor unique properties". | 16:01 |
| smcginnis | Especially given there are names and punctuation. | 16:01 |
| smcginnis | /names/spaces/ | 16:01 |
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| cebruns | Hi | 16:01 |
| hemna | I didn't think we were removing scoped keys as part of this effort ? | 16:01 |
| mtanino_ | so Gorka's proposal is Use `vendor_name` in volume_stats OR use anything the driver wants as a prefix. | 16:01 |
| smcginnis | mtanino_: My vote would be it is up to the driver what they want to use. | 16:02 |
| hemna | if you remove the scoping, then the capabilities filter is going to use those values to match | 16:02 |
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| geguileo | smcginnis: But they could be sending vendor_name | 16:02 |
| jgriffith | let's back up a second... I might be lost :) | 16:02 |
| smcginnis | geguileo: Sure, if they want. But I wouldn't want to make it a requirement that it has to match vendor_name. | 16:03 |
| geguileo | smcginnis: Ok, do we have any specific requirements for those values or anything goes? | 16:03 |
| jgriffith | geguileo: mtanino_ first let's talk about replacing colon's | 16:03 |
| mtanino_ | jgriffith: I see. | 16:03 |
| geguileo | smcginnis: Because we must be able to remove the scoping like hemna said | 16:03 |
| jgriffith | geguileo: mtanino_ depending on what you're proposing that's a scoped key and we need that to bypass scheduler | 16:04 |
| mtanino_ | so currently, separate is "_", but I think colon is reasonable separator for the prefix | 16:04 |
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| geguileo | Original proposal in Kilo used : | 16:04 |
| mtanino_ | like Hitachi:minIOPS, Hewlett-Packard:minIOPS or hp3par:minIOPS, SolidFire Inc:minIOPS or SolidFire:minIOPS | 16:04 |
| jgriffith | mtanino_: Ok, I see what you're sayign I think | 16:04 |
| mtanino_ | It's good? | 16:04 |
| mtanino_ | I see. | 16:04 |
| hemna | I wasn't suggesting we do remove the scoping | 16:04 |
| hemna | I was simply pointing out that if you do remove it, the capabilities filter will then now filter on those keys, which has issues of it's own. | 16:05 |
| jgriffith | hemna: not saying you were, I was just backing up to make sure I understand what mtanino_ and geguileo are proposing :) | 16:05 |
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| jgriffith | mtanino_: geguileo so the proposal is to change the reporting of vendor keys in capabiities from xxxx_yyyy, to xxx:yyy ? | 16:06 |
| mtanino_ | jgriffith: correct. | 16:06 |
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| jgriffith | mtanino_: geguileo makes sense... there may be some complications on upgrades though | 16:06 |
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| geguileo | jgriffith: But the important part was the xxxx part | 16:06 |
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| geguileo | jgriffith: If we force it to vendor_name (we already said no) | 16:06 |
| jgriffith | geguileo: mtanino_ any thoughts on using a different delimeter so as to avoid any issues with scoped keys? | 16:06 |
| jgriffith | mtanino_: mtanino_ like using '-' | 16:06 |
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| jgriffith | since that's improper formatting for a python var in our code anyway :) | 16:07 |
| winston-d | smcginnis | 16:07 |
| mtanino_ | jgriffith: If the colon is included, I will replace it to "_" | 16:07 |
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| jgriffith | mtanino_: oh... | 16:07 |
| jgriffith | mtanino_: so I don't necessarily like that FWIW | 16:08 |
| jgriffith | mtanino_: underscores may be included in the var name | 16:08 |
| jgriffith | mtanino_: which could make things kinda confusing IMO | 16:08 |
| jgriffith | mtanino_: I prefer using something else if we can agree on it | 16:08 |
| geguileo | jgriffith: Not confussing, because you would be able to separate it by the : | 16:08 |
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| geguileo | Ok, let's recap | 16:09 |
| jgriffith | geguileo: ok, maybe I'm still not following :) | 16:09 |
| jgriffith | geguileo: yes.. let's :) | 16:09 |
| geguileo | Drivers can use any vendor prefix they want | 16:09 |
| geguileo | So whatever separator we decide to use | 16:09 |
| mtanino_ | geguileo: yes. | 16:09 |
| geguileo | It "could" be used in that prefix | 16:09 |
| geguileo | Which is a problem | 16:09 |
| geguileo | So we would log a warning | 16:09 |
| geguileo | And replace it with something else | 16:09 |
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| jgriffith | geguileo: wait... why is that a problem? | 16:10 |
| * hemna is confused | 16:10 | |
| geguileo | So we don't need to separate the vendor part from the rest of the key?> | 16:10 |
| winston-d_ | how about just let driver developers know that some character(s) are not to be used | 16:10 |
| jgriffith | geguileo: I certainly didn't say that | 16:10 |
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| geguileo | jgriffith: No, it was a genuine question, as in I'm not sure if we have to XD | 16:11 |
| jgriffith | geguileo: I did say however that things like vendorname_compression_type is not good IMHO | 16:11 |
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| winston-d_ | as long as we can clearly distinguish the 'well-defined' keys from the rest, it'd be fine. | 16:11 |
| jgriffith | there's no clear delimeter between the prefix and the key itself | 16:11 |
| geguileo | winston-d_: Exactly, but code should still work even if they don't do it right | 16:11 |
| geguileo | winston-d_: That's why we would give a warning and replace it with something else | 16:11 |
| jgriffith | winston-d_: geguileo I understand it "would be fine" but I'm asking why it's better? | 16:11 |
| geguileo | jgriffith: It would be something like vendorname:compression_type | 16:12 |
| winston-d_ | and I thought we agreed in Vancouver that well defined keys will start with sth like 'cinder_' | 16:12 |
| jgriffith | winston-d_: geguileo why is that better than vendor:key or vendor-key | 16:12 |
| geguileo | winston-d_: That was changed later on | 16:12 |
| geguileo | winston-d_: Well defined will not have prefix | 16:12 |
| geguileo | winston-d_: Only vendor ones will have it | 16:12 |
| jgriffith | geguileo: ok, so I'm reallynot following because what you just wrote it EXACTLY what I just proposed | 16:12 |
| geguileo | jgriffith: What I proposed is what I was proposing from the start %D | 16:13 |
| jgriffith | winston-d_: we did but after looking at the patch it seemed like just omitting the prefix from well defined keys was cleaner | 16:13 |
| jgriffith | geguileo: then what's the discussion around the use of underscore? | 16:13 |
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| geguileo | jgriffith: At this point I think it is :-D | 16:13 |
| winston-d_ | jgriffith: so either prefix 'well-defined' ones or the rest. | 16:14 |
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| jgriffith | winston-d_: right, and I'm proposing the "others" are prefixed | 16:14 |
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| geguileo | jgriffith: I agree | 16:14 |
| winston-d_ | __not_well_defined_whatever_you_like | 16:14 |
| mtanino_ | winston-d_: like Hitachi:minIOPS | 16:14 |
| jgriffith | geguileo: I can't tell for the life of me what you're proposing I'm afraid | 16:15 |
| geguileo | XD XD | 16:15 |
| geguileo | Let driver use whatever prefix they want | 16:15 |
| geguileo | But they should know : is not allowed | 16:15 |
| tbarron | can't we handle the weird vendor:name:compression_type capability by making a utility to split the vendor name and key that uses rsplit on the colon? | 16:15 |
| geguileo | And will be replaced and a warning issued | 16:15 |
| mtanino_ | geguileo: It's my current plan | 16:16 |
| winston-d_ | ':' was used for scoped keys | 16:16 |
| geguileo | tbarron: Yes | 16:16 |
| jgriffith | winston-d_: and still is ;) | 16:16 |
| tbarron | geguileo: so why do we have to replace the lefthand colon? | 16:16 |
| geguileo | tbarron: But what if they want to have a : in the name? | 16:16 |
| xyang | I don't understand why ":" will be replaced automatically? | 16:16 |
| xyang | it is been used everywhere | 16:16 |
| winston-d_ | and 'capablities:' has specailly meanings, any keys prefixed with that will be consumed by CapablitiesFilter. | 16:16 |
| jgriffith | we can't take that way, but geguileo you're talking in circles | 16:16 |
| jgriffith | 16:12 geguileo| jgriffith: It would be something like vendorname:compression_type | 16:16 |
| geguileo | tbarron: It's easier to control the vendor name, since we are already going to check it | 16:16 |
| jgriffith | and then you say: | 16:16 |
| jgriffith | : is not allowed and will log a warning? | 16:17 |
| geguileo | If vendor prefix has : | 16:17 |
| jgriffith | geguileo: or are you just saying they can't have ':' in the prefix itself? | 16:17 |
| tbarron | geguileo: ok, I get what you are saying | 16:17 |
| jgriffith | geguileo: Ohhh.. well yeah... duhhh :) | 16:17 |
| geguileo | jgriffith: Yes | 16:17 |
| jgriffith | geguileo: that's just natural IMO | 16:17 |
| geguileo | jgriffith: So "if" they do we replace it | 16:17 |
| geguileo | jgriffith: I think so too | 16:17 |
| xyang | that will break drivers. Am I missing anything? | 16:18 |
| jgriffith | geguileo: Well certainly... although IMO it woudl be fine if it fails | 16:18 |
| jgriffith | xyang: nahhh | 16:18 |
| hemna | if you disallow : in the key, then you will all of a sudden then get a lot of "No host found" in creating volumes. | 16:18 |
| geguileo | jgriffith: If it fails to start the service? | 16:18 |
| winston-d_ | so 3par:max_iops will be changed to 3par_max_iops, for example? | 16:18 |
| jgriffith | xyang: it only breaks drivers that use a ':' as a character in their capability value name (key name) | 16:18 |
| mtanino_ | Hita::chi:minIOPS should change Hitachi:minIOPS right? | 16:19 |
| geguileo | hemna: Not in the key, in the vendor prefix part | 16:19 |
| jgriffith | winston-d_: so my understanding is that is valid/ok | 16:19 |
| xyang | jgriffith: that is widely used though | 16:19 |
| jgriffith | winston-d_: geguileo ^^ | 16:19 |
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| geguileo | winston-d_: No | 16:19 |
| jgriffith | winston-d_: geguileo my interpretation is that if you have "hp:3par:some_key" | 16:19 |
| jgriffith | that's the problem | 16:19 |
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| tbarron | jgriffith: +1 | 16:19 |
| jgriffith | and it changes to hp_3par:some_key | 16:19 |
| mtanino_ | jgriffith: correct | 16:19 |
| geguileo | winston-d_: 3:par:max_iops will be changed to 3_par:max_iops | 16:20 |
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| geguileo | jgriffith: Exactly | 16:20 |
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| winston-d_ | 3par:some_key:some_subkey suddently won't work? | 16:20 |
| jgriffith | that just makes sense to me | 16:20 |
| geguileo | winston-d_: It will work | 16:20 |
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| geguileo | winston-d_: Because prefix is 3par | 16:20 |
| geguileo | winston-d_: And it doesn't have : | 16:20 |
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| winston-d_ | how is that different from hp:3par:key? | 16:21 |
| geguileo | winston-d_: Because driver passes back the prefix | 16:21 |
| jgriffith | geguileo: but winston-d_ has a point, it's a bit trickier to parse it, but if you're just using vendor_name from the capabilities it works easy enough | 16:21 |
| geguileo | winston-d_: In one case it would pass hp:3par | 16:21 |
| geguileo | winston-d_: And the other h3par | 16:21 |
| navneet | I think the behavior in the scheduler is to ignore keys with ":" | 16:22 |
| geguileo | jgriffith: Current implementation requires drivers to pass back the prefix so we can check it | 16:22 |
| navneet | and its passed to the backend driver to handle it | 16:22 |
| jgriffith | geguileo: so the crux of it is "don't use ':' in your vendor name" right? and I dont' know that anybody is doing that anyway | 16:22 |
| winston-d_ | i missed 'cinder_' prefix, it seems to me that will make life(&code) much easier | 16:22 |
| smcginnis | I'd prefer vendor chosen prefix, but not necessarily vendor_name. | 16:23 |
| winston-d_ | s/missed/miss/ | 16:23 |
| geguileo | jgriffith: jgriffith They are not | 16:23 |
| smcginnis | Do we really want something like "Violin Memory, Inc.:compression" | 16:23 |
| navneet | in that case does it still require prefix with vendor like vendor:key | 16:23 |
| geguileo | smcginnis: We agreed on that, we all prefer it | 16:23 |
| hemna | smcginnis, yuk | 16:23 |
| smcginnis | geguileo: Which is preferred? | 16:23 |
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| smcginnis | I don't think we've all agreed on anything. | 16:23 |
| geguileo | smcginnis: The one you suggest | 16:23 |
| geguileo | smcginnis: Drivers can choose prefix | 16:24 |
| jgriffith | smcginnis: it translates to Violin_Memory_Inc:compression | 16:24 |
| geguileo | smcginnis: Current patch implementation is like that | 16:24 |
| smcginnis | geguileo: OK, I'm good then. Thanks. :) | 16:24 |
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| jgriffith | winston-d_: you feel the prefix cinder_ is better/easier? | 16:24 |
| geguileo | jgriffith: No, we won't be doing translation for that part | 16:24 |
| winston-d_ | __some_ugly_prefix_so_admin_will_never_miss_used__FREEFORALL | 16:24 |
| geguileo | jgriffith: Only replace : | 16:24 |
| jgriffith | geguileo: ok, fair enough | 16:24 |
| jgriffith | geguileo: but I'd change my prefix if I had that :) | 16:24 |
| smcginnis | winston-d_: Hey, if that's what the vendor wants. :) | 16:25 |
| jgriffith | geguileo: my only suggestion is to add a capability key "prefix" | 16:25 |
| jgriffith | geguileo: mtanino_ and use capability.get(prefix, vendor_name) | 16:25 |
| jgriffith | geguileo: they don't have to be the same that way | 16:25 |
| vincent_hou | mtanino_: geguileo: please get it documented with examples somewhere. Need to make every developer know. | 16:25 |
| winston-d_ | jgriffith: if we went wight 'cinder_', we only need to handle what, less than ten defined keys, but prefixing the rest, that seems much more messier. | 16:26 |
| rajinir | Where is this kind of stuff documented? | 16:26 |
| jgriffith | winston-d_: LOL | 16:26 |
| winston-d_ | s/wight/with/ | 16:26 |
| hemna | *sigh* | 16:26 |
| jgriffith | winston-d_: fair point | 16:26 |
| jgriffith | winston-d_: I was laughing at your example above :) | 16:26 |
| mtanino_ | vincent_hou: will documented in the comment. | 16:27 |
| vincent_hou | rajinir: devref, maybe. | 16:27 |
| geguileo | mtanino_: And update the spec file like you are doing, right? | 16:27 |
| mtanino_ | geguileo: yes. correct | 16:27 |
| mtanino_ | geguileo: jgriffith I will put detail of this in the SPEC | 16:27 |
| jgriffith | winston-d_: I'm on the fence honestly, the only thing I like better about what you're saying is that "explicit is better than implicit" | 16:27 |
| jgriffith | geguileo: mtanino_ now that I understand what you're saying (and it's just how I assumed it worked :)) I'm fine either way | 16:28 |
| rajinir | vincent_hou: thx | 16:28 |
| winston-d_ | jgriffith: yup | 16:28 |
| jgriffith | mtanino_: geguileo I would like winston-d_ and others to consider the alternative... | 16:28 |
| jgriffith | mtanino_: geguileo and see if perhaps we should be doing one way over the other in this case | 16:29 |
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| geguileo | jgriffith: In theory this was changed from what winston-d_ says to the new way | 16:29 |
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| geguileo | mtanino_: You mentioned this was changed, right? | 16:29 |
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| mtanino_ | geguileo: jgriffith that proposal comes from jgriffith. | 16:30 |
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| jgriffith | winston-d_: the only advantage the other way was that in my case I'd change all my custom extra-specs to use the same scoped key | 16:30 |
| jgriffith | winston-d_: of course I could have done that anyway, and still could | 16:30 |
| jgriffith | winston-d_: I just didn't really consider it at the time when I wrote the driver | 16:30 |
| vincent_hou | mtanino_: check if there is a good place in devref for something to document. Under doc folder I think. | 16:31 |
| jgriffith | geguileo: mtanino_ YES, the change is completely my fault :( | 16:31 |
| winston-d_ | jgriffith: what do you prefix your custom extra-specs keys for now? | 16:31 |
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| mtanino_ | jgriffith: We can still back to use cinder_ | 16:31 |
| jgriffith | winston-d_: QOS or REPLICATION | 16:31 |
| mtanino_ | for well defined keys | 16:31 |
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| jgriffith | I still like the bare key, but I've caused enough trouble already so I'll let others speak if they have an opinion | 16:32 |
| jgriffith | but we need to wrap this topic up and get the code merged | 16:32 |
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| mtanino_ | yes... | 16:32 |
| jgriffith | as I have issues with things like this which I'll bring up in my next topic :) | 16:33 |
| bswartz | +1 for bare key | 16:33 |
| winston-d_ | jgriffith: ok, and because those are well defined, so you don't want to have to change your driver, right? | 16:33 |
| navneet | using cinder_ internal to cinder seems odd | 16:33 |
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| navneet | thenits as better as bare | 16:33 |
| jgriffith | hemna: smcginnis DuncanT e0ne geguileo winston-d_ other cores... votes? | 16:33 |
| jgriffith | winston-d_: correct | 16:33 |
| jgriffith | winston-d_: wait... no | 16:33 |
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| winston-d_ | navneet: we can use 'nova', if that's fancier, or 'docker', maybe | 16:34 |
| geguileo | I vote for vendor_name prefix instead of cinder_ prefix | 16:34 |
| hemna | chewbacca_ | 16:34 |
| jgriffith | winston-d_: those are not well defined keys, they're vendor unique | 16:34 |
| winston-d_ | any buzz words | 16:34 |
| xyang | +1 for cinder_ so we don't have to change other keys | 16:34 |
| jgriffith | xyang: we don't have to change other keys though | 16:34 |
| xyang | jgriffith: the replacement part | 16:34 |
| winston-d_ | jgriffith: so you will have to change your driver if you want to provide list of capabilities? | 16:34 |
| e0ne | +1 for vendor prefix | 16:34 |
| smcginnis | I was leaning toward vendor, but it is true there is a smaller discrete set of cinder ones that could be covered with the cinder_ prefix. | 16:34 |
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| navneet | winston-d_:if we want to make it explicit then vendor_ or bare is better than cinder_ | 16:34 |
| smcginnis | No strong opinion really. | 16:35 |
| geguileo | winston-d_: Yes, you need to report them with a method | 16:35 |
| jgriffith | hehe... we're getting nowhere on this one I fear | 16:35 |
| hemna | I don't care as long as we are consistent. | 16:35 |
| jgriffith | Ok, vote be reviewing the patch :) | 16:35 |
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| jgriffith | BUT, make sure you load it up to see how it impacts your current functionality | 16:35 |
| jgriffith | of course none of us have the patches in our drivers so it's kinda moot | 16:36 |
| smcginnis | yep | 16:36 |
| xyang | jgriffith: we'll just make sure all CI passes:) | 16:36 |
| winston-d_ | mtanino_: your patch, will you just do the lvm driver and let other make simliar changes or you will do that for everybody? | 16:36 |
| mtanino_ | winston-d_: as for well defined keys, every driver has these keys. | 16:37 |
| jgriffith | Ok, hate to cut this short, but we're running pretty long | 16:37 |
| smcginnis | +1 | 16:38 |
| jgriffith | we can discuss further in #openstack-cinder maybe? | 16:38 |
| winston-d_ | let's move on | 16:38 |
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| mtanino_ | geguileo: jgriffith Thank you for your help. | 16:38 |
| jgriffith | or state your opinion viareivew | 16:38 |
| geguileo | mtanino_: np | 16:38 |
| jgriffith | mtanino_: thank you!! | 16:38 |
| jgriffith | Ok... | 16:38 |
| jgriffith | #topic feature freeze for liberty | 16:38 |
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| jgriffith | I have some things i wanted to bring up as a team here | 16:39 |
| navneet | jgriffith: I just started :) | 16:39 |
| winston-d_ | sure | 16:39 |
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| jgriffith | navneet: ? | 16:39 |
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| jgriffith | we implemented the cut off date of last Sunday saying anything that wasn't passing jenkins and had an approved BP was to be rejected until M | 16:39 |
| jgriffith | I think that's *ok*, BUT | 16:40 |
| navneet | jgriffith:feature freeze came so early | 16:40 |
| jgriffith | I have some concerns about a few things... | 16:40 |
| jgriffith | navneet: yes, I felt it was a bit early but none the less | 16:40 |
| jgriffith | I have issues with things like replication for example... and the capabilities patch we just discussed | 16:40 |
| hemna | navneet, FWIW nova's feature freeze is the 2nd Milestone. | 16:40 |
| jgriffith | by the "rules" in place that means that none of the new features that landed in core can be implemented by anybody | 16:41 |
| jgriffith | inparticular replication is a good example becuase I didn't finisht he core work until Sunday | 16:41 |
| navneet | hemna: oh yes...tokyo is near by | 16:41 |
| Swanson | We can just admire it from a distance. | 16:42 |
| jgriffith | I think we need to determine whether features like this should NOT be implemented by anybody, or if everybody should have the time to implement them? | 16:42 |
| jgriffith | Swanson: that's fine honestly if you ask me | 16:42 |
| jgriffith | saying that the core pieces are in place, but not implemented anywhere until next release | 16:42 |
| smcginnis | It does prevent folks from trying to cram untested implementations in at the last minute. | 16:42 |
| hemna | jgriffith, I'm not sure what the right answer is honestly. These big features are typically not done until later in the release | 16:42 |
| jgriffith | the rush at the ned and only one or two implementations at release is kinda what's bit us in the past | 16:43 |
| hemna | and in the past most folks didn't have enough time to implement, but patches usually show up early in the next release. | 16:43 |
| xyang | I'd prefer we allow reference implementations for new features | 16:43 |
| jgriffith | hemna: indeed | 16:43 |
| smcginnis | For stability I would prefer everyone just prepping to have it ready for M. | 16:43 |
| navneet | xyang: +1 | 16:43 |
| kmartin | I thought for the folks that were working along side the feature(i.e Pure) and entered approved BPs then they should get in. | 16:43 |
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| e0ne | xyang: +1 | 16:43 |
| jgriffith | kmartin: yes, that was the ruling | 16:43 |
| Swanson | I thought pure or someone had a reference implementation. | 16:43 |
| jgriffith | kmartin: I'm saying I'm not sure that's really such a good approach | 16:43 |
| jgriffith | because we still go out with only one implementation of a major feature | 16:44 |
| jgriffith | I don't think there's anything wrong with a feature spanning multiple releases | 16:44 |
| hemna | jgriffith, the only other option really is to not allow the features to land in the 3rd milestone and hold them for the 1st milestone of the next release ? | 16:44 |
| winston-d_ | only core piece can bite 'cinder', right? vendor implementation only bites themselves, not others. | 16:44 |
| xyang | non-disruptive backup has no reference implemenation | 16:44 |
| smcginnis | winston-d_: Good point. | 16:44 |
| jgriffith | winston-d_: correct | 16:44 |
| navneet | jgriffith: but that serves as a template and must do for others in next rel | 16:44 |
| xyang | code is done but not allowed to merge | 16:44 |
| jgriffith | winston-d_: which is the second part of what i wanted to throw out :) | 16:44 |
| xyang | winston-d_: +1 | 16:45 |
| eharney | winston-d: vendor implementation bites us all if we end up finding out that core changes are needed as more vendors implement it in the next cycle | 16:45 |
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| jgriffith | should we allow an extended period for drivers to implement features that have landed in core cinder? | 16:45 |
| smcginnis | eharney: Like replication v1. | 16:45 |
| jgriffith | a staggered freeze so to speak? | 16:45 |
| cebruns | eharney: +1 | 16:45 |
| winston-d_ | as long as we are confident about core pieces, i don't care some vendor squeeze in their slappy implementation and end up pissing off their customer | 16:45 |
| xyang | jgriffith: +1 | 16:45 |
| jgriffith | I kinda wish I thought of that a few months ago but I didn't :( | 16:45 |
| geguileo | winston-d_: I don't agree | 16:46 |
| navneet | jgriffith: allowing drivers to implement only adds more instability | 16:46 |
| geguileo | winston-d_: Customers some times have multiple drivers and they don't know who to blame | 16:46 |
| bswartz | fwiw, this is why I proposed "experimental" APIs at the midcycle -- to cover the period between when a new feature merges and when it's widely implemented and well tested | 16:46 |
| geguileo | winston-d_: So they end up blaming Cinder | 16:46 |
| navneet | but atleast one reference implementation should be allowed | 16:46 |
| patrickeast | i like the idea of a staggered freeze, is the suggestion that we do something like that now for L? | 16:46 |
| patrickeast | or going forward? | 16:46 |
| xyang | without driver implementation, what is point of introducing a feature? | 16:46 |
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| eharney | winston-d_: but that sloppy impl then forces compatibility concerns on us, even if it's sloppy | 16:46 |
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| jgriffith | bswartz: sorry, I don't think I was around for that topic... sounds interesting though | 16:46 |
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| jgriffith | patrickeast: so the way I see it we have two choices for L | 16:47 |
| tbarron | eharney: +1 on compatibility concerns | 16:47 |
| patrickeast | i also might be biased but i do think having at least some driver impl does help to find any issues with the core feature... at a minimum it should ease the amount of problems others have next time | 16:47 |
| winston-d_ | geguileo: one works, the other doesn't, you know who to blame. :) | 16:47 |
| hemna | xyang, so it gets more complex when the feature itself has dependencies in Nova. re: multi-attach. If the Cinder side doesn't land, then Nova never can land, due to the schedule and deadlines, etc. | 16:47 |
| jgriffith | patrickeast: features that merged in core at the last minute are granted some exception for drivers | 16:47 |
| jgriffith | patrickeast: OR | 16:47 |
| xyang | bswartz: that is a good idea, but we don't have it yet | 16:47 |
| patrickeast | bswartz: +1 for experimental features | 16:47 |
| jgriffith | nobody goes out the door with it | 16:47 |
| geguileo | winston-d_: It's not that simple :-D | 16:47 |
| hemna | so I don't think we can be so hard/fast with the rules on this | 16:47 |
| navneet | xyang: its like an appetizer...but atleast one reference impl | 16:47 |
| jgriffith | hemna: that's why I brought it up here :) | 16:48 |
| Swanson | xyang: Chicken and egg. Plus someone could implement out of band. | 16:48 |
| hemna | jgriffith, so you can probably guess my opinion on this one :) | 16:48 |
| jgriffith | hemna: I thought it was important enough that we should discuss and make a decision as a team | 16:48 |
| hemna | jgriffith, +1 | 16:48 |
| jgriffith | hemna: actually no I can't | 16:48 |
| guitarzan | the concept of experimental features seems like a pretty good middle ground imo | 16:48 |
| jgriffith | guitarzan: yeah, but it's kinda off the table for L IMO | 16:49 |
| guitarzan | sure, no question | 16:49 |
| hemna | heh ok. I think it's fine to have core features land in the 3rd milestone, even if there is no ref implementation. | 16:49 |
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| guitarzan | jgriffith: are you really just asking about replication and being sneaky about it? :) | 16:49 |
| hemna | :) | 16:49 |
| bswartz | jgriffith: if you're interested you can look at how it was done in manila -- first we did microversions https://review.openstack.org/#/c/207228/ then we added experimental as an enhancement on top of microversions https://review.openstack.org/#/c/215340/ | 16:49 |
| xyang | hemna: but if the ref imp is ready, why block it? | 16:49 |
| jgriffith | hemna: well... ok, but given the two options I proposed... which do you think is the right way to go (or neither) | 16:49 |
| navneet | lets just fix whats around here for now | 16:49 |
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| patrickeast | jgriffith: why is calling replication experimental off the table? couldn't we lock down the api's and document it as experimental with a big warning label on it? | 16:50 |
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| hemna | xyang, if the ref impl is ready, then land it, if CI is passing. | 16:50 |
| jgriffith | patrickeast: well, to do experimental right, you need more than a "label" on it IMO | 16:50 |
| xyang | hemna: we are not allowed currently:( | 16:50 |
| jgriffith | patrickeast: as bswartz pointed out, micro-versioning and other things are probably a good idea | 16:51 |
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| patrickeast | jgriffith: yea, i agree, to do it 'right' is more effort | 16:51 |
| patrickeast | jgriffith: but imo a huge portion of it is communication to customers about it | 16:51 |
| e0ne | agree that we need to have saparate deadlines for ref impl and for drivers | 16:51 |
| patrickeast | s/customers/operators/ | 16:51 |
| jgriffith | patrickeast: I'm also not convinced it's necessary if we think ahead about timing etc | 16:51 |
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| bswartz | yeah microversions solves a lot of problems which would otherwise be caused by introducing experimental APIs and later changing/removing them | 16:51 |
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| patrickeast | jgriffith: not sure what you mean about timing | 16:53 |
| hemna | 9 minutes | 16:53 |
| patrickeast | jgriffith: you mean about when we land the features? | 16:53 |
| jgriffith | patrickeast: requiring core-features to merge earlier | 16:53 |
| patrickeast | jgriffith: ahh gotcha | 16:53 |
| winston-d_ | just to argue about having core only and wait for drivers to catch up in next release cycle, I'd say that actually keep us from finding out if necessary core changes might be needed. | 16:53 |
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| jgriffith | winston-d_: agreed | 16:54 |
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| e0ne | jgriffith: +1 on "requiring core-features to merge earlier" | 16:54 |
| winston-d_ | more drivers impls, more confidence we have | 16:54 |
| xyang | winston-d_: +1 | 16:54 |
| jgriffith | winston-d_: there are definitely pros/cons either way | 16:54 |
| jgriffith | so how about this... we'll take two votes | 16:54 |
| jgriffith | 1. allow an extra week of driver implementation of merged core features | 16:54 |
| jgriffith | and | 16:54 |
| e0ne | core featured for milestone-2 and drivers for miletone-3? | 16:54 |
| jgriffith | 2. No driver implementations for those core features that landed last minute | 16:54 |
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| dannywilson | is this voting for M or L? | 16:55 |
| jgriffith | we'll take the winner and move forward for L... with a design summit topic for M to fix this | 16:55 |
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| jgriffith | dannywilson: this is L | 16:55 |
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| navneet__ | option 2 | 16:55 |
| hemna | 1 | 16:55 |
| e0ne | jgriffith: option #1 is good for me if it is tested by 3rd party ci | 16:55 |
| jgriffith | dannywilson: we'll discuss how to deal with this sort of thing going forward at summit | 16:55 |
| xyang | 1 | 16:55 |
| patrickeast | i hate to be that guy, but shouldn't there be an option 3 which is stick to thingee's plan? (i'm voting for option 1 though) | 16:55 |
| dannywilson | changing the rules at the last minute like this seems a bit sucky | 16:55 |
| winston-d_ | we use the '#vote' or just speak out? | 16:55 |
| navneet__ | more stablility with trunk | 16:55 |
| jgriffith | #startvote Extend driver implementation deadline for new features by 1 week? Yes, No | 16:56 |
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| openstack | Begin voting on: Extend driver implementation deadline for new features by 1 week? Valid vote options are Yes, No. | 16:56 |
| openstack | Vote using '#vote OPTION'. Only your last vote counts. | 16:56 |
| xyang | #vote 1 | 16:56 |
| hemna | #vote 1 | 16:56 |
| openstack | xyang: 1 is not a valid option. Valid options are Yes, No. | 16:56 |
| smcginnis | 2 | 16:56 |
| openstack | hemna: 1 is not a valid option. Valid options are Yes, No. | 16:56 |
| bswartz | #vote no | 16:56 |
| navneet__ | 2 | 16:56 |
| Swanson | #vote 2 | 16:56 |
| openstack | Swanson: 2 is not a valid option. Valid options are Yes, No. | 16:56 |
| e0ne | #vote Yes | 16:56 |
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| hemna | #vote yes | 16:56 |
| jgriffith | #vote yes | 16:56 |
| Swanson | #vote No | 16:56 |
| winston-d_ | #vote Yes | 16:56 |
| rhe00 | #vote yes | 16:56 |
| patrickeast | #vote Yes | 16:56 |
| dannywilson | #vote no | 16:56 |
| vincent_hou | Any time left for me? :-) 1 | 16:56 |
| navneet__ | #vote No | 16:56 |
| smcginnis | Yes is 1 and no is 2? | 16:56 |
| cebruns | #vote yes | 16:56 |
| jgriffith | xyang: you need to vote "yes or no" | 16:56 |
| xyang | yes | 16:56 |
| xyang | #vote yes | 16:56 |
| guitarzan | #vote yes | 16:56 |
| smcginnis | #vote no | 16:56 |
| jgriffith | xyang: haha you need to prefix it | 16:57 |
| xyang | ? | 16:57 |
| dulek | #vote no | 16:57 |
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| eharney | i'm not familiar enough with the exact list of features at hand etc to really cast a well-reasoned vote here | 16:57 |
| jgriffith | xyang: nm you got it | 16:57 |
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| jseiler_ | #vote no | 16:57 |
| xyang | will this be counted automatically? | 16:57 |
| geguileo | eharney: +1 | 16:57 |
| jgriffith | eharney: replication, capability reporting, cg-snaps, online backupes | 16:57 |
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| jgriffith | backups even | 16:57 |
| jgriffith | xyang: yes | 16:57 |
| xyang | cool | 16:57 |
| jgriffith | 10 seconds.... | 16:57 |
| tbarron | #vote no | 16:58 |
| winston-d_ | geguileo: vote pls | 16:58 |
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| jgriffith | geguileo: eharney last chance to vote | 16:58 |
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| hemna | hurry up and snipe the vote! | 16:58 |
| navneet__ | seems like vendors prefer #yes but operators #no | 16:58 |
| smcginnis | vincent_hou: Guess you'll need to report in -cinder. | 16:58 |
| wilson2 | #vote yes | 16:58 |
| jgriffith | #endvote | 16:58 |
| openstack | Voted on "Extend driver implementation deadline for new features by 1 week?" Results are | 16:58 |
| openstack | Yes (10): hemna, cebruns, winston-d_, xyang, jgriffith, rhe00, e0ne, wilson2, patrickeast, guitarzan | 16:58 |
| openstack | No (8): bswartz, navneet__, smcginnis, tbarron, Swanson, jseiler_, dannywilson, dulek | 16:58 |
| Swanson | bah | 16:58 |
| jgriffith | navneet__: you seem to be wrong about that | 16:58 |
| jgriffith | navneet__: all the operators seem to have voted yes | 16:59 |
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| jgriffith | ok.. one more vote | 16:59 |
| smcginnis | time | 16:59 |
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| jgriffith | #startvote should we remove late landing core features from any driver and wait til next release? Yes, No | 16:59 |
| openstack | Begin voting on: should we remove late landing core features from any driver and wait til next release? Valid vote options are Yes, No. | 16:59 |
| openstack | Vote using '#vote OPTION'. Only your last vote counts. | 16:59 |
| Swanson | Can vincent do a progress report in a single line? | 17:00 |
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| hemna | #vote no | 17:00 |
| dannywilson | #vote no | 17:00 |
| dulek | #vote no | 17:00 |
| xyang | #vote no | 17:00 |
| e0ne | #vote no | 17:00 |
| jgriffith | I'll give this one 30 seoncs | 17:00 |
| winston-d | #vote no | 17:00 |
| patrickeast | #vote no | 17:00 |
| jgriffith | #vote yes | 17:00 |
| bswartz | #vote no | 17:00 |
| navneet__ | #vote no | 17:00 |
| cebruns | #vote no | 17:00 |
| ericksonsantos | #vote no | 17:00 |
| smcginnis | #yes | 17:00 |
| vincent_hou | let us go to cinder shall we? | 17:00 |
| guitarzan | #vote no | 17:00 |
| tbarron | #no | 17:00 |
| smcginnis | #vote yes | 17:00 |
| rhe00 | #vote yes | 17:00 |
| Swanson | #vote yes | 17:00 |
| jseiler_ | #vote yes | 17:00 |
| jgriffith | 5 seconds | 17:00 |
| geguileo | #vote yes | 17:00 |
| jgriffith | #endvote | 17:00 |
| openstack | Voted on "should we remove late landing core features from any driver and wait til next release?" Results are | 17:00 |
| openstack | Yes (6): smcginnis, jseiler_, jgriffith, rhe00, Swanson, geguileo | 17:00 |
| openstack | No (12): bswartz, navneet__, hemna, ericksonsantos, cebruns, xyang, winston-d, e0ne, dannywilson, patrickeast, guitarzan, dulek | 17:00 |
| hemna | if we did this, then nova could never get things like multi-attach support. | 17:01 |
| jgriffith | ok... that one is pretty overwhelming | 17:01 |
| jgriffith | hemna: not true at all | 17:01 |
| hemna | jgriffith, I went through 3 releases of that and it was true. | 17:01 |
| hemna | anyway | 17:01 |
| smcginnis | To -cinder? | 17:01 |
| hemna | we are out of time here | 17:01 |
| vincent_hou | hemna: you will be there. | 17:01 |
| jgriffith | hemna: I don't follow... but we can chat | 17:01 |
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| dannywilson | jgriffith: voting yes on both like you did seems funny | 17:01 |
| jgriffith | vincent_hou: can you meet us in cinder? | 17:02 |
| vincent_hou | sure | 17:02 |
| jgriffith | dannywilson: hehe... I'm funny that way | 17:02 |
| jgriffith | I'm mixed on what's best for Cinder to be honest | 17:02 |
| vincent_hou | see you in cinder | 17:02 |
| jgriffith | ok... | 17:02 |
| jgriffith | let's go over to cinder and give up the room | 17:02 |
| jgriffith | #endmeeting | 17:02 |
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| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Aug 26 17:02:30 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 17:02 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/cinder/2015/cinder.2015-08-26-15.59.html | 17:02 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/cinder/2015/cinder.2015-08-26-15.59.txt | 17:02 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/cinder/2015/cinder.2015-08-26-15.59.log.html | 17:02 |
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| stevebaker | #startmeeting heat | 20:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Aug 26 20:00:16 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is stevebaker. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 20:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 20:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: heat)" | 20:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'heat' | 20:00 |
| stevebaker | hey all | 20:00 |
| stevebaker | #topic rollcall | 20:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "rollcall (Meeting topic: heat)" | 20:00 | |
| shardy | o/ | 20:00 |
| skraynev_ | o/ | 20:00 |
| Drago | hi | 20:00 |
| stevebaker | who wants to be co-chair if I need to leave early? | 20:00 |
| skraynev_ | I may try ;) | 20:01 |
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| zaneb | this would be a bad time to announce my presence with a o/ | 20:01 |
| jasond | o/ | 20:01 |
| prazumovsky | o/ | 20:01 |
| stevebaker | #chair skraynev_ | 20:01 |
| openstack | Current chairs: skraynev_ stevebaker | 20:01 |
| pas-ha | o/ | 20:01 |
| stevebaker | #topic adding items to the agenda | 20:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "adding items to the agenda (Meeting topic: heat)" | 20:01 | |
| stevebaker | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/HeatAgenda#Agenda_.282015-08-26_2000_UTC.29 | 20:01 |
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| shardy | stevebaker: will you cover feature proposal freeze under l-3 release? | 20:03 |
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| stevebaker | shardy: I will | 20:03 |
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| stevebaker | #topic heat reviews https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/heat-reviews | 20:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "heat reviews https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/heat-reviews (Meeting topic: heat)" | 20:04 | |
| shardy | stevebaker: cool, thanks | 20:04 |
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| skraynev_ | do we plan to land all convergence related patches befor l3 ? | 20:06 |
| stevebaker | this close to feature freeze we're probably better off following the milestone page rather than this etherpad | 20:06 |
| skraynev_ | or it may be done later ? | 20:06 |
| shardy | I rebased the final part of PATCH updates https://review.openstack.org/#/c/205754/ | 20:06 |
| stevebaker | shardy: oh yeah, lets get that on the list | 20:06 |
| shardy | adding that to the list, or just any feedback would be great :) | 20:06 |
| shardy | I'll finish the test for the heatclient patch soon, but that should be the last heat patch AFAIK | 20:07 |
| stevebaker | skraynev_: I'm assuming any non-landed convergence changes can be framed as bug fixes after feature freeze | 20:07 |
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| skraynev_ | stevebaker: ok. sounds reasonable | 20:07 |
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| stevebaker | we will need to figure out what we're doing with Refactor ASG and RG resources before freeze though | 20:08 |
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| zaneb | I'm currently reworking the scaling-library topic | 20:08 |
| zaneb | and of course I reposted some reviews and forgot to re-specify the topic | 20:08 |
| stevebaker | #topic prep for liberty-3 release | 20:08 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "prep for liberty-3 release (Meeting topic: heat)" | 20:08 | |
| zaneb | so there's some under https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:open+project:openstack/heat+branch:master+topic:bug/1488971,n,z | 20:09 |
| stevebaker | feature freeze is a week away! | 20:09 |
| * stevebaker runs in circles | 20:09 | |
| stevebaker | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Liberty_Release_Schedule | 20:09 |
| stevebaker | #link https://launchpad.net/heat/+milestone/liberty-3 | 20:09 |
| skraynev_ | zaneb: do not forget about batching for different actions ;) | 20:09 |
| shardy | zaneb: did you and ramishra reach agreement, your patches appear to overlap and I wasn't sure which series to focus on | 20:09 |
| zaneb | shardy: I asked him for reviews but never heard anything | 20:09 |
| stevebaker | I may be bugging you for blueprint status updates if it is not obvious | 20:09 |
| zaneb | but I found some bugs on my own | 20:10 |
| zaneb | hence currently reworking with mondo unit tests | 20:10 |
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| stevebaker | zaneb: can you give us a quick summary on the difference between the series and why yours is better? ;) | 20:10 |
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| zaneb | by the time that's done hopefully my patches will be self-evidently correct ;) | 20:10 |
| shardy | zaneb: so far yours do look good and are definitely easier to review | 20:11 |
| zaneb | stevebaker: well, the ResourceGroup implementation of rolling updates is really inefficient from a user point of view, because it comes with all the limitations of resource groups | 20:11 |
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| zaneb | the InstanceGroup implementation is also really inefficient because of a bug | 20:12 |
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| zaneb | fix for that is in https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:open+project:openstack/heat+branch:master+topic:bug/1488971,n,z | 20:12 |
| shardy | I just wanted to see if there was scope for collaboration vs wholesale abandonment of the work ramishra started | 20:12 |
| zaneb | rabi wants to base ASG on RG, which is a mistake because it is a big regression | 20:12 |
| zaneb | I want them all to use code from a common scaling library | 20:13 |
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| zaneb | (I've been saying this for ~2 years) | 20:13 |
| shardy | zaneb: Ok, cool, +1 on the common scaling library for sure | 20:13 |
| zaneb | which I'm currently working on | 20:13 |
| stevebaker | yeah, that sounds sensible | 20:13 |
| pas-ha | I would also think that RG is just an ASG minus A | 20:13 |
| zaneb | should have a lot more to show this week | 20:13 |
| shardy | I just wanted to avoid taking sides via review if you guys are mid-dispute/discussion ;) | 20:13 |
| zaneb | depending on interruptions | 20:13 |
| zaneb | which are legion | 20:13 |
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| zaneb | pas-ha: yes, that's the right way to think of it | 20:14 |
| skraynev_ | stevebaker: when we plan to bump l3 tag and introduce FF ? I mean particular day ;) | 20:14 |
| zaneb | pas-ha: not the other way round, which is how we have always organised things in the code | 20:14 |
| stevebaker | zaneb: wrt feature freeze this is probably a feature. i recall a bp for this | 20:15 |
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| zaneb | rabi had a bp I believe | 20:15 |
| jdandrea | \o (late) | 20:15 |
| zaneb | I didn't want to try to steal that too ;) | 20:15 |
| stevebaker | zaneb: I'd be happy to ask for an extension for that if it is not all landed by ff | 20:15 |
| zaneb | when is FF? | 20:16 |
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| pas-ha | about sept 3 | 20:16 |
| stevebaker | skraynev_: since we're hardly snowed under with feature reviews, I think FF on the day of l-3 is ok | 20:16 |
| zaneb | ok, yeah, could be tight | 20:16 |
| shardy | stevebaker: yeah, I'm working on recursive-validation and wondering if I may have enought time wrt FPF | 20:16 |
| zaneb | I'm trying to keep the patches either small + easy to review, or with lots of unit test coverage, or both | 20:17 |
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| stevebaker | shardy: is there a lp bp for that? | 20:17 |
| shardy | stevebaker: There's a spec, https://review.openstack.org/#/c/197199/ | 20:17 |
| skraynev_ | stevebaker: FYI, I know, that it's probably late, but we plan to upload on review all rich-network bp stuff... | 20:17 |
| shardy | It's been in review limbo for $months | 20:18 |
| * shardy sees if he raised the BP | 20:18 | |
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| stevebaker | shardy: ok, I'll push that through today | 20:18 |
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| skraynev_ | zaneb: what's about batching for RG? it has merged spec. | 20:18 |
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| zaneb | skraynev_: the code landed already | 20:19 |
| zaneb | I'm refactoring it as we speak | 20:19 |
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| shardy | stevebaker: Ok, thanks, I'll raise the LP BP, looks like there isn't one yet | 20:20 |
| skraynev_ | zaneb: I meant this one | 20:20 |
| skraynev_ | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/185385/ | 20:20 |
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| pas-ha | zaneb, that's on_create batching | 20:20 |
| stevebaker | there is this https://blueprints.launchpad.net/heat/+spec/reorg-asg-code | 20:20 |
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| zaneb | skraynev_: oh, right | 20:20 |
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| zaneb | I don't think it should be a property, but once that is fixed I'm ok with landing it | 20:21 |
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| zaneb | it will conflict with what I'm doing though :/ | 20:21 |
| ochuprykov | what is the proper place to add batch_create? | 20:21 |
| skraynev_ | zaneb: I just think, that rolling update is a part of batching for create/update/delete .. | 20:21 |
| ochuprykov | don't think this place is update_policy | 20:22 |
| zaneb | ochuprykov: IMHO it is update_policy | 20:22 |
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| shardy | stevebaker: raised https://blueprints.launchpad.net/heat/+spec/nested-validation | 20:22 |
| zaneb | ochuprykov: if just that changes then that shouldn't be detected as a change to the resource, ergo it's an update_policy | 20:23 |
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| ochuprykov | zaneb: i mean it works on creation, why we add it to update_policy? | 20:24 |
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| zaneb | I freely admit the naming makes it a little odd, since we are in uncharted territory here | 20:24 |
| zaneb | but it is a policy, not a property imo | 20:24 |
| shardy | ochuprykov: arguably, create is just a type of update which starts with an empty template ;) | 20:24 |
| skraynev_ | shardy: I correctly understand, that re-authentification for expired token will be done as a bug and may be land after FF ? | 20:24 |
| skraynev_ | * bug fix | 20:25 |
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| stevebaker | zaneb: I don't think rabi's changes are against a bp. Could you develop against Qiming's old one? https://blueprints.launchpad.net/heat/+spec/reorg-asg-code | 20:25 |
| pas-ha | skraynev_, that is surely a bug | 20:25 |
| shardy | skraynev_: Yeah, I'm hoping to get time to work on that too, modulo everything else I'm hoping to get done | 20:25 |
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| ochuprykov | shardy: exactly my implementation of batch_create) | 20:25 |
| zaneb | stevebaker: ok, if that's what floats your boat | 20:25 |
| stevebaker | zaneb: just to have something to track against | 20:26 |
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| skraynev_ | shardy: got it. thx | 20:26 |
| zaneb | stevebaker: might it be easier to track if I created a new one? | 20:26 |
| ochuprykov | zaneb: so i just add batching_actions to existiing rolling update in update_policy? | 20:26 |
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| zaneb | whiteboard is getting pretty long there | 20:26 |
| stevebaker | any other non-asg features to discuss? | 20:27 |
| shardy | zaneb: I would, you'll end up writing a new service if you follow that one ;) | 20:27 |
| zaneb | ochuprykov: I actually think we should have separate policies for create and rolling_update | 20:27 |
| skraynev_ | stevebaker: rich network. I hope to upload all related patches on review on Friday | 20:27 |
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| skraynev_ | on this week | 20:27 |
| ochuprykov | zaneb: need to add create_policy to parent resource class? | 20:27 |
| stevebaker | skraynev_: cutting it fine ;) | 20:27 |
| zaneb | ochuprykov: thinking about tripleo use case, I can can definitely see a case for them being different | 20:28 |
| stevebaker | skraynev_: but that would be good | 20:28 |
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| skraynev_ | stevebaker: ok. will spent all time on this work | 20:28 |
| ochuprykov | zaneb: we have the third case actually, for full update | 20:28 |
| pas-ha | zaneb, even if they are the same, you can update it in the same updated template | 20:28 |
| zaneb | ochuprykov: no, not a new section in the template. there can be multiple keys in the update_policy section. we just need another one in addition to rolling_update | 20:28 |
| skraynev_ | stevebaker: probably we may go to the next topic about RG | 20:29 |
| skraynev_ | ;) | 20:29 |
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| zaneb | pas-ha: true, because it's a policy! ;) still a major pita for tripleo though | 20:29 |
| stevebaker | #topic batching for create in ResourceGroup | 20:29 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "batching for create in ResourceGroup (Meeting topic: heat)" | 20:29 | |
| skraynev_ | stevebaker: because discussionalready in progress ;) | 20:29 |
| zaneb | I thought we were already talking about this ;) | 20:29 |
| pas-ha | yep :) | 20:30 |
| ochuprykov | zaneb: rolling_create would be fine? | 20:30 |
| stevebaker | y'all jumped the gun | 20:30 |
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| zaneb | ochuprykov: maybe 'batch_create'? but just bikeshedding at this point | 20:30 |
| pas-ha | let's make more - rolling_suspend :) | 20:30 |
| skraynev_ | ochuprykov: wow. what's about actions in this case ? | 20:30 |
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| skraynev_ | separate policy for each action looks expansive and heavy, IMO | 20:31 |
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| ochuprykov | zaneb: batch_create looks fine tome too | 20:31 |
| stevebaker | zaneb: I'll leave it up to you whether you create a new bp or use reorg-asg-code, just target it to l-3 | 20:31 |
| zaneb | stevebaker: ack | 20:31 |
| skraynev_ | zaneb: ochuprykov: what if we want to add batching for another actions ? | 20:32 |
| ochuprykov | zaneb: i'm just wondering about repetition of max_batch_size and pause_time in theirs schemas | 20:32 |
| skraynev_ | for "delete" it looks reasonable | 20:32 |
| ochuprykov | skraynev: don't think about delete for now | 20:32 |
| skraynev_ | zaneb: I'd prefer one batching policy with option for create/update or sonmething else | 20:33 |
| zaneb | ochuprykov: easy to avoid that duplication in code. user has to duplicate that in their schema, but that is the price for being more flexible. I still think flexible wins | 20:33 |
| pas-ha | yes, deletes are usually lightweight on Nova (sans SC/SD with on_delete actions) | 20:33 |
| zaneb | s/schema/template/ | 20:33 |
| shardy | skraynev_: What if you want to create everything as fast as possible, but keep your application running during update? | 20:33 |
| ochuprykov | skraynev: ok, add batch_crete to update_policy and batching_actions to existing rolling update (i.g. update_existing and update) | 20:34 |
| pas-ha | shardy, as it is a policy - you update it in the same updated template, and use new value during update | 20:34 |
| skraynev_ | shardy: you mean separate options (pause, min in service , etc) for each action ? | 20:35 |
| shardy | pas-ha: I guess, not very declarative though :\ | 20:35 |
| ochuprykov | zaneb: ok, add batch_crete to update_policy and batching_actions to existing rolling update (i.g. update_existing and update) | 20:35 |
| zaneb | skraynev_, shardy: what if you want to create your compute nodes in batches of 10, but then update them 1 at a time so you can migrate user workloads off <- potential tripleo use case | 20:35 |
| pas-ha | or we are talking on (auto)scaling actions? that might need different for create and update | 20:35 |
| shardy | skraynev_: yes, I think optionally supporting that (even if there's a way to specify common values) would be good | 20:35 |
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| stevebaker | skraynev_: I need to go soon. can you topic Open Discussion, and endmeeting? | 20:36 |
| zaneb | ochuprykov: I don't understand the batching_actions one | 20:36 |
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| skraynev_ | shardy: default batching parameters like for nested stacks :) | 20:36 |
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| skraynev_ | stevebaker: sure | 20:36 |
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| ochuprykov | zaneb: we have 3 actions: create (just discussed), update_existing (exactly what rolling_update do) and for full update | 20:37 |
| zaneb | what does full update mean? how is that different from rolling_update? | 20:37 |
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| ochuprykov | if we need to create new resources, we will create in batches | 20:38 |
| ochuprykov | in update | 20:38 |
| zaneb | rolling update does that already | 20:38 |
| ochuprykov | no | 20:38 |
| ochuprykov | in only replace existing resources | 20:38 |
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| ochuprykov | and after that make resize | 20:39 |
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| zaneb | actually it depends | 20:40 |
| zaneb | it may create extras to maintain the min_in_service | 20:40 |
| zaneb | and if it does, it creates them in batches | 20:40 |
| zaneb | but you're right, not if you change the size to > efft_capacity | 20:40 |
| ochuprykov | so, for example, we have 10 res and want to have 20 res', ru updates 10 res in batches and then creates 10 res simultaneously | 20:40 |
| skraynev_ | zaneb, ochuprykov: guys, do not you mind if we continue it in Open discussion ? | 20:40 |
| zaneb | however, when I am done refactoring, that will be trivial to fix with a ~2-line change | 20:40 |
| zaneb | skraynev_: go ahead | 20:41 |
| skraynev_ | #topic Open Discussion | 20:41 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: heat)" | 20:41 | |
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| zaneb | ochuprykov: I think we should see that as an enhancement to rolling_update, not a new policy. I'm planning to implement it anyway | 20:41 |
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| ochuprykov | zaneb: but i think rolling_update is only about updating existing resources | 20:42 |
| zaneb | ochuprykov: my goal is to have all creates and updates go through the rolling update code :) | 20:42 |
| ochuprykov | zaneb: so we need to distinguish this 2 cases | 20:42 |
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| pas-ha | why should we? do we have to keep strict compat with something here? | 20:43 |
| zaneb | pas-ha: not for RG | 20:43 |
| pas-ha | even for AWS ASG - does it really matter if new will be created in batches or not (like now)? | 20:44 |
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| ochuprykov | pas-ha: at least it has different time to update for this 2 cases | 20:45 |
| zaneb | ochuprykov: so I guess the question is if the user increases the size of the RG and has differing update_policy for both batch_create and rolling_update, which would they expect to apply? | 20:45 |
| ochuprykov | zaneb: rolling_update | 20:46 |
| ochuprykov | zaneb: because they want to update | 20:46 |
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| ochuprykov | zaneb: and i'd like to add additional options, for applaying batching to replace or to full update | 20:47 |
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| zaneb | ochuprykov: I'd say rolling_update if the launch config/resource definition has also changed, and batch_create if it has not | 20:47 |
| pas-ha | zaneb, that's not too declarative | 20:47 |
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| pas-ha | there should be one meaning, otherwise it is confusing | 20:48 |
| ochuprykov | zaneb: i think about this actions in terms of a whole stack | 20:48 |
| pas-ha | or the RG itself | 20:48 |
| ochuprykov | zaneb: create -- means stack create, not create of resource ( that may be performed on update) | 20:49 |
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| zaneb | the original purpose of rolling_update was to update to a new launch config (we corrupted the meaning when we adopted it) | 20:50 |
| ochuprykov | zaneb: i;d like you to look at this spec https://review.openstack.org/#/c/183506/ | 20:50 |
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| zaneb | if you're rolling out new stuff you might have requirements to go slowly, stop and test that you might not have if just rolling out more of the same | 20:51 |
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| stevebaker | I'm back | 20:51 |
| shardy | You could have a series of options, with the first taking precedence if the others aren't defined, batch_size->update_batch_size->rolling_update_batch_size | 20:51 |
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| shardy | Then, you can either just define batch_size, or all the options if you want very granular control | 20:52 |
| skraynev_ | stevebaker: cool. we are in Open discussion, but still talk about RG batching ;) | 20:52 |
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| stevebaker | heh | 20:52 |
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| zaneb | shardy: that's actually sounding pretty good | 20:52 |
| ochuprykov | zaneb: don't know the history of appearance of rolling_update | 20:53 |
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| zaneb | ochuprykov: it came from CloudFormation originally | 20:53 |
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| zaneb | or EC2, to be more precise | 20:53 |
| pas-ha | actually for that it would be cool to be able to pause the update until explicit signal from user (like it is possible with stack breakpoints) | 20:54 |
| zaneb | AWS allows you to change the launch config for future instances *without* doing a rolling update | 20:54 |
| zaneb | of existing ones | 20:54 |
| zaneb | pas-ha: yes, we desperately need that for tripleo | 20:55 |
| zaneb | I thought there was a review up at some point | 20:55 |
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| skraynev_ | zaneb: agree. I saw something similar... | 20:55 |
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| pas-ha | not that I remeber of. I mean inf pause between batches | 20:55 |
| pas-ha | until user signal | 20:56 |
| ochuprykov | zaneb: what is the conclusion? add batch_create to update_policy now? | 20:56 |
| zaneb | pas-ha: I think ryansb put a review up for hooks between batches (i.e. same impl as breakpoints) | 20:56 |
| pas-ha | oh, cool, missed that | 20:56 |
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| shardy | zaneb: we discussed the hook for update breakpoint in one of ramishras RG patches IIRC | 20:58 |
| skraynev_ | anything else ? or we may finish ? | 20:58 |
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| skraynev_ | 2 mins | 20:58 |
| shardy | but it's not actually been implemented | 20:59 |
| skraynev_ | 1 ;) | 20:59 |
| shardy | skraynev_: Ok to finish IMO :) | 20:59 |
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| stevebaker | +1 | 20:59 |
| skraynev_ | ok cool. thx everyone ! | 20:59 |
| skraynev_ | #endmeeting | 20:59 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 20:59 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Aug 26 20:59:36 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 20:59 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/heat/2015/heat.2015-08-26-20.00.html | 20:59 |
| stevebaker | \o | 20:59 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/heat/2015/heat.2015-08-26-20.00.txt | 20:59 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/heat/2015/heat.2015-08-26-20.00.log.html | 20:59 |
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| skraynev_ | ps. any discussion may continue in #heat channel | 21:00 |
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