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| skraynev | ramishra: hi. could you take a look my comment for https://review.openstack.org/#/c/216223/ | 06:37 |
|---|---|---|
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| ramishra | skraynev: yes I've another followup patch for them | 06:38 |
| skraynev | ramishra: ok. cool. please post answer in comments, and then I approve it. thx | 06:39 |
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| anteaya | #startmeeting third-party | 08:04 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Aug 25 08:04:34 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is anteaya. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 08:04 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 08:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: third-party)" | 08:04 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'third_party' | 08:04 |
| anteaya | hello | 08:04 |
| eantyshev | hello! | 08:04 |
| anteaya | hi eantyshev | 08:04 |
| anteaya | how are you today? | 08:04 |
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| eantyshev | fine, but having problems getting my changes reviewed | 08:06 |
| anteaya | yes I can understand that | 08:06 |
| anteaya | what patches have you up? | 08:06 |
| anteaya | can you link them here? | 08:06 |
| eantyshev | https://review.openstack.org/211124 and https://review.openstack.org/215029 | 08:07 |
| anteaya | #link https://review.openstack.org/211124 | 08:07 |
| anteaya | #link https://review.openstack.org/215029 | 08:07 |
| anteaya | it works if you use the link syntax as well | 08:07 |
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| * anteaya looks at the patches | 08:07 | |
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| eantyshev | thank you, anteaya! | 08:07 |
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| anteaya | the -1 isn't helping, is abel lopez on irc that you have seen? | 08:09 |
| anteaya | can you and ianw talk to this person at all? | 08:09 |
| anteaya | derek higgins gave a second +2 on the patch, I am wondering why he didn't approve it | 08:10 |
| anteaya | the cloudlinx patch | 08:11 |
| anteaya | we don't tend to just add os.s to the gate | 08:11 |
| anteaya | so perhaps an item added to the infra meeting agenda might be in order | 08:12 |
| eantyshev | we have already 2 forks of devstack-gate, and that's odd | 08:12 |
| anteaya | to tell folks why you think this is a good addition and helps openstack | 08:12 |
| anteaya | I don't understand your last comment | 08:12 |
| anteaya | what is odd? | 08:13 |
| eantyshev | it's very inconvenient to maintain the forks of devstack-gate, as it changes frequently... | 08:14 |
| anteaya | why are you forking devstack-gate? | 08:14 |
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| eantyshev | we use it in our CI, to run devstack on slaves | 08:15 |
| anteaya | why not just run devstack-gate? | 08:15 |
| eantyshev | and we have CloudLinux slaves | 08:15 |
| anteaya | okay that won't be a compeling reason for infra to add an os | 08:15 |
| eantyshev | obviously we need CloudLinux support in devstack-gate | 08:15 |
| anteaya | no | 08:15 |
| anteaya | that is not the conclusion infra will draw | 08:16 |
| anteaya | adding an os to infra means infra has to support the os | 08:16 |
| anteaya | maintenance, security | 08:16 |
| anteaya | daily builds | 08:16 |
| anteaya | odd packaging differences | 08:16 |
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| anteaya | you being frustrated, while important, and I care about your happiness | 08:17 |
| anteaya | is not a compeling reason for infra to add another os to the gate | 08:17 |
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| anteaya | jhesketh: if you are about, can you take a look at https://review.openstack.org/#/c/211124/4 and possibly offer a review? | 08:18 |
| eantyshev | okay, how do you like another way for us: apply this change to devstack-gate in a job? | 08:18 |
| anteaya | well that is an interesting question | 08:18 |
| jhesketh | anteaya: will do | 08:18 |
| anteaya | jhesketh: thank you | 08:19 |
| anteaya | jhesketh: and eantyshev is wondering how to address needing to use an unsupported os | 08:19 |
| anteaya | jhesketh: if you have any thoughts on that, I would be interested to hear them | 08:19 |
| anteaya | eantyshev: well creating a job is individual to a certain repo, so is much more likely to be accepted | 08:20 |
| anteaya | eantyshev: however jobs use supported os.s | 08:20 |
| anteaya | so I am at a loss as to how a job could be created to use an unsupported os | 08:20 |
| jhesketh | anteaya, eantyshev: as in you need dib to support another os? | 08:20 |
| eantyshev | that's not a problem, I'm talking about our private CI | 08:21 |
| anteaya | jhesketh: context https://review.openstack.org/#/c/215029/1 | 08:21 |
| * jhesketh is trying to get up to speed sorry | 08:21 | |
| anteaya | no no, thanks for being here | 08:21 |
| anteaya | eantyshev: right if this change is for your private ci, it doesn't belong in upstream | 08:22 |
| * jhesketh is often lurking | 08:22 | |
| anteaya | jhesketh: :) thanks | 08:22 |
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| anteaya | eantyshev: but we certainly can discuss how you might approach it in your own ci | 08:22 |
| anteaya | I've just never thought about it | 08:22 |
| anteaya | eantyshev: so your fork of devstack-gate | 08:23 |
| eantyshev | I have 2 choices: either I fork devstack-gate or I apply needed change to upstream devstack-gate in my private job | 08:23 |
| anteaya | what would happen if you applied your patch 215029 to your clone of devstack-gate? | 08:23 |
| patchbot | anteaya: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/215029/ | 08:23 |
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| anteaya | hello patchbot pleasure to meet you | 08:24 |
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| anteaya | eantyshev: yeah I get that, I'm not feeling that upstream adding an os to accomodate your private ci is a compeling reason for infra | 08:24 |
| eantyshev | anteaya: no, idea is to apply it to upstream devstack-gate, so I don't have to rebase | 08:25 |
| anteaya | right | 08:25 |
| anteaya | I'm saying chances are not good that will happen | 08:25 |
| anteaya | and am asking if you are able to apply it to your clone of devstack-gate | 08:25 |
| eantyshev | I understand, but the change will stay, won't it? | 08:25 |
| anteaya | if you apply it to your clone you will need to check it every time you reclone | 08:26 |
| anteaya | but unless that section of the file is changed if you pull down from master and fast forward your changes the change should stay in your clone | 08:26 |
| eantyshev | if I choose to clone devstack-gate, I commit there what I want, and don't need the change | 08:27 |
| anteaya | okay | 08:27 |
| anteaya | that probably is your best way forward unfortunately | 08:27 |
| jhesketh | anteaya: so I'm not familiar enough with grub to comfortably merge 211124. I'd like to see Ian's last question answered first at the very least | 08:27 |
| anteaya | jhesketh: thank you for your review | 08:27 |
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| anteaya | jhesketh: and yes having an answer to ianw's question would be good to have | 08:28 |
| eantyshev | but If the change will be available at review.o.o, I will apply it privately to upstream devstack-gate, and that will work for me | 08:28 |
| anteaya | eantyshev: sure that works too | 08:28 |
| anteaya | and probably a better way forward for you | 08:29 |
| eantyshev | anteaya: this way I don't have to maintain a fork | 08:29 |
| anteaya | not having a fork is a good thing | 08:29 |
| anteaya | I agree | 08:29 |
| anteaya | :) | 08:29 |
| eantyshev | okay, that will comfort me :) | 08:30 |
| anteaya | oh good | 08:30 |
| anteaya | thank you | 08:30 |
| anteaya | I'm glad we are in a happy place | 08:30 |
| anteaya | what else shall we discuss today? | 08:30 |
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| eantyshev | I have no questions at the moment | 08:33 |
| anteaya | great | 08:33 |
| anteaya | any reason I should not close the meeting? | 08:33 |
| anteaya | eantyshev jhesketh thanks for your participation today | 08:33 |
| anteaya | always a pleasure to spend time with you | 08:33 |
| anteaya | thank you | 08:33 |
| jhesketh | no trouble, sorry I wasn't more helpful | 08:33 |
| eantyshev | thank you! | 08:34 |
| jhesketh | anteaya: I assume it's some ridiculous time for you. Go sleep! | 08:34 |
| anteaya | jhesketh: I think that often myself, wish I was more helpful | 08:34 |
| anteaya | :) | 08:34 |
| anteaya | jhesketh: ha ha ha on my way back to bed | 08:34 |
| jhesketh | you're always very helpful anteaya | 08:34 |
| anteaya | night! | 08:34 |
| anteaya | jhesketh: aw thanks Josh | 08:34 |
| jhesketh | goodnight! | 08:34 |
| anteaya | #endmeeting | 08:34 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 08:34 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Aug 25 08:34:52 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 08:34 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/third_party/2015/third_party.2015-08-25-08.04.html | 08:34 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/third_party/2015/third_party.2015-08-25-08.04.txt | 08:34 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/third_party/2015/third_party.2015-08-25-08.04.log.html | 08:34 |
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| alex_xu | #startmeeting nova api | 12:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Aug 25 12:00:17 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is alex_xu. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 12:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 12:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: nova api)" | 12:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'nova_api' | 12:00 |
| alex_xu | hello, who is here today? | 12:00 |
| edleafe | o/ | 12:00 |
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| gmann_ | o/ | 12:00 |
| oomichi | hi | 12:00 |
| Kevin_Zheng_ | hi | 12:00 |
| alex_xu | oomichi: hey, long time no see :) | 12:01 |
| oomichi | yeah :) | 12:01 |
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| alex_xu | not sure johnthetubaguy and sdague will join the meeting | 12:02 |
| claudiub | o/ | 12:02 |
| johnthetubaguy | o/ | 12:02 |
| alex_xu | ok, let's run the meeting | 12:02 |
| alex_xu | #topic Actions from last meeting | 12:03 |
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| *** openstack changes topic to "Actions from last meeting (Meeting topic: nova api)" | 12:03 | |
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| alex_xu | one for sdague: check sdague his action in next week meeting | 12:03 |
| johnthetubaguy | yeah, I remember he was out for two meetings, I guess this is the second one he is out for | 12:03 |
| alex_xu | but sdague sent email | 12:04 |
| alex_xu | #link https://github.com/stackforge/gerrit-dash-creator/blob/master/dashboards/nova-api.dash | 12:04 |
| alex_xu | he add create dashboard for api patches | 12:04 |
| gmann_ | yea | 12:04 |
| alex_xu | I generated one | 12:04 |
| alex_xu | #link | 12:04 |
| alex_xu | https://review.openstack.org/#/dashboard/?foreach=%28project%3Aopenstack%2Fnova+OR+project%3Aopenstack%2Fpython%252Dnovaclient+OR+project%3Aopenstack%2Fnova%252Dspecs%29+%28%28file%3A%5E.%2Anova%2Fapi.%2A+OR+file%3A%5E.%2Aapi_samples.%2A%29+OR+message%3Aapiimpact%29+status%3Aopen+NOT+owner%3Aself+NOT+label%3AWorkflow%3C%3D%252D1+label%3AVerified%3E%3D1%252cjenkins+NOT+label%3ACode%252DReview%3E%3D% | 12:04 |
| alex_xu | 252D2%252cself+branch%3Amaster&title=Nova+API&Proposed+API+changing+Specs=project%3Aopenstack%2Fnova%252Dspecs+NOT+label%3ACode%252DReview%3E%3D%252D2%252cself&Needs+Feedback+%28Changes+older+than+5+days+that+have+not+been+reviewed+by+anyone%29=NOT+label%3ACode%252DReview%3C%3D2+age%3A5d&Your+are+a+reviewer%252c+but+haven%27t+voted+in+the+current+revision=reviewer%3Aself&Needs+final+%2B2=label%3ACo | 12:04 |
| alex_xu | de%252DReview%3E%3D2&Passed+Jenkins%252c+No+Negative+Feedback=NOT+label%3ACode%252DReview%3E%3D2+NOT+label%3ACode%252DReview%3C%3D%252D1+limit%3A50&Down+voted+changes=label%3ACode%252DReview%3C%3D%252D1 | 12:04 |
| alex_xu | oops... | 12:04 |
| edleafe | max line length FTL | 12:05 |
| johnthetubaguy | OK, whats the dashboard trying to include? | 12:05 |
| alex_xu | anyway I tried, it's great | 12:05 |
| johnthetubaguy | ah, I see now, the link tells me | 12:05 |
| bauzas | \o | 12:05 |
| * bauzas waves late | 12:05 | |
| alex_xu | johnthetubaguy: yea, let say everything include | 12:06 |
| alex_xu | bauzas: welcome | 12:06 |
| bauzas | (lurking mostly) | 12:06 |
| alex_xu | another action is for me and gmann_ | 12:06 |
| alex_xu | gmann_ and alex_xu take a look at tempest failure of https://review.openstack.org/#/c/214085/3 | 12:06 |
| sdague | morning folks. | 12:06 |
| gmann_ | sdague: morning | 12:06 |
| sdague | stupid jetlag from west coast, sorry I'm late | 12:06 |
| alex_xu | this is related to next topic | 12:06 |
| alex_xu | sdague: morning! | 12:07 |
| bauzas | sdague: eh I'm not alone \o/ | 12:07 |
| alex_xu | let's jump to next topic directly | 12:07 |
| alex_xu | #topic v2.0 on v2.1 | 12:07 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "v2.0 on v2.1 (Meeting topic: nova api)" | 12:07 | |
| johnthetubaguy | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/214085/ | 12:08 |
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| alex_xu | johnthetubaguy: thanks | 12:08 |
| johnthetubaguy | so I guess the api-paste.ini changes are the big one here | 12:08 |
| sdague | johnthetubaguy: yeh, I was wondering where those all stood | 12:08 |
| johnthetubaguy | well, actually not really, just the test failures they highlight | 12:08 |
| alex_xu | #link https://review.openstack.org/215436 | 12:09 |
| alex_xu | we try to fix that failure in above patch | 12:09 |
| sdague | it looks like 1 tempest test failed that flip | 12:09 |
| johnthetubaguy | sdague: so we have a bug in v2.1's legacy mode , this deals with some of that: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/215436 | 12:09 |
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| alex_xu | we plan to strip the extra parameter out | 12:09 |
| alex_xu | that is different with our original spec saying | 12:09 |
| johnthetubaguy | so relax broke patternProperties, but alex_xu has fixed that now :) | 12:09 |
| gmann_ | sdague: need for extra param strip out, then tempest is fine | 12:10 |
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| johnthetubaguy | yeah, the next bit is do we strip out the bad properties | 12:10 |
| alex_xu | gmann_: we still need skip the host update testcase for compatible mode I guess? | 12:10 |
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| johnthetubaguy | gmann_: well we still have a tempest test failure, but its unexpected 2xx rather than 5xx, when 4xx was expected | 12:10 |
| edleafe | I thought that if they are requesting v2 that we leave in the extra props? | 12:10 |
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| johnthetubaguy | edleafe: they were, but it creates big problems for the API | 12:10 |
| gmann_ | johnthetubaguy: ahhh right. | 12:10 |
| edleafe | Because some might be relying on them | 12:10 |
| sdague | ok, https://review.openstack.org/#/c/215436 seems mostly good, though I agree with johnthetubaguy's -1 comments there. If we can get that respun that would be great | 12:11 |
| alex_xu | one point I want to metion, the host update with extra parameter return 400 before, with strip out extra params, the api will return 2xx, hope this ok for everyone | 12:11 |
| johnthetubaguy | edleafe: I am voting we strip them, and add back in the ones folks need (I think scheduler hints) | 12:11 |
| sdague | there is still a hosts API failure on johnthetubaguy's patch | 12:11 |
| sdague | I can look into that one today | 12:11 |
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| johnthetubaguy | sdague: so that the issue we are discussing right now | 12:11 |
| edleafe | johnthetubaguy: how do we know which ones are needed? | 12:12 |
| johnthetubaguy | sdague: to strip or not to strip the extra properties, although either way we get a tempest failure right now | 12:12 |
| gmann_ | johnthetubaguy: sdague that will be difficult to handle on tempest side. different expected code for v2.1 and v2onv2.1 | 12:12 |
| bauzas | johnthetubaguy: agreed with you (re: hints) | 12:12 |
| johnthetubaguy | edleafe: using master, we are OK, its was out of tree stuff that got broke, I believe, which makes me less sympathetic | 12:13 |
| bauzas | johnthetubaguy: but I would like to see alaski yelling or accepting | 12:13 |
| sdague | gmann_: so is that just a bug? | 12:13 |
| sdague | something screwed up on the initial v2.1 ? | 12:13 |
| johnthetubaguy | sdague: its an issue with how we are doing the compatiblity | 12:13 |
| sdague | ok | 12:13 |
| johnthetubaguy | v2 actually had some validation, tempest tests some of it | 12:13 |
| johnthetubaguy | now v2.1 compat mode, drops that validation | 12:13 |
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| alex_xu | yea, few api have some validation | 12:14 |
| gmann_ | sdague: not actually, fir v2 on v21 we skip the additional property validation so we need to do something for extra param which can cause 5xx error as v21 do not have python code valisdation as v2 has | 12:14 |
| johnthetubaguy | we either let the prams through (causes 5xx errors, in this case), or we drop possible bad params (cases 2xx success by ignoring stuff), or we try add the odd validation from v2 back into v2.1 | 12:14 |
| sdague | ok, I'll probably need to walk through the code once I'm more awake to fully understand. I trust you folks. | 12:15 |
| gmann_ | johnthetubaguy: yea, those are all cases :) | 12:15 |
| oomichi | that means too relax validation for extra parameters on v2 comp api? | 12:15 |
| johnthetubaguy | well, the thing is, we want bad requests to do no halm to the system | 12:16 |
| johnthetubaguy | we want all requests that were accepted before to be accepted now | 12:16 |
| johnthetubaguy | if we strip the params, we get the above two cases sorted | 12:16 |
| alex_xu | johnthetubaguy: yea, that's the goal | 12:16 |
| sdague | it feels like keeping the v2 validation around for this case | 12:16 |
| gmann_ | yea, because some extra param might having success cases on v2 | 12:16 |
| sdague | even though it will be a little gross | 12:16 |
| johnthetubaguy | sdague: so that would make us pass the tempest test, I just worry about the other stuff we missed | 12:16 |
| alex_xu | sdague: if we choice that way, we need check all the api | 12:17 |
| gmann_ | johnthetubaguy: sdague : poython code one might be little dificult as we do nto have tests for all extra param for other API | 12:17 |
| johnthetubaguy | so there is another way, I guess, which is add a validation decorator that re-instates full validation for v2.1 compat mode, for certain APIs? | 12:18 |
| gmann_ | yea we need to walk all v2 code and put validation.. | 12:18 |
| edleafe | sdague: v2 on v21 is probably gonna be a little gross :) | 12:18 |
| sdague | so... this is for all the APIs? | 12:19 |
| sdague | sorry, I only noticed a single failure here | 12:19 |
| johnthetubaguy | so I was leaning towards, strip the params, and let some things that fail succeed, because we get the saftey of avoiding some bad 5xx | 12:19 |
| johnthetubaguy | sdague: its more that we assume a lack of tempest coverage for the other APIs | 12:19 |
| gmann_ | sdague: yea, v2 might have lot of extra param validation in python code | 12:19 |
| sdague | ok | 12:19 |
| gmann_ | sdague: johnthetubaguy yea that was test with extra param in tempest | 12:20 |
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| sdague | ok, right. | 12:20 |
| sdague | ok, so I think I'm with you johnthetubaguy then, stripping seems the next best option | 12:20 |
| gmann_ | we do not have other extra param cases cover under tempest | 12:20 |
| alex_xu | ok, cool | 12:20 |
| gmann_ | sdague: | 12:20 |
| gmann_ | +1 | 12:20 |
| alex_xu | looks like we like this | 12:20 |
| johnthetubaguy | sdague: I am tempted to also add extra validation for that call, to make tempest happy, but yeah, that seems the safer general appraoch | 12:20 |
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| gmann_ | sdague: how to handle Tempest for v2onv21 where this test will pass | 12:21 |
| alex_xu | ok, let's move on, afraid we run out of time | 12:21 |
| johnthetubaguy | (notes what he said is actually quite complicated to implement) | 12:21 |
| sdague | ok, before we move on, who's doing what? | 12:21 |
| gmann_ | and sorry test will fail in v2onv21 and pass on v2 and v21 | 12:21 |
| sdague | who is going to rev - https://review.openstack.org/#/c/215436 to fix the comments. And who is going to do this additional patch? | 12:22 |
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| johnthetubaguy | probably need to skip the tempest test, or delete it | 12:22 |
| alex_xu | I will | 12:22 |
| sdague | alex_xu: great | 12:22 |
| johnthetubaguy | who is taking the tempest test bit? | 12:22 |
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| sdague | I can take the tempest bit | 12:22 |
| johnthetubaguy | swett | 12:22 |
| johnthetubaguy | oops | 12:22 |
| johnthetubaguy | sweet | 12:22 |
| gmann_ | alex_xu: extra param stripout can be done on same patch | 12:22 |
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| sdague | #action alex_xu to create updated validation patch which strips out extra params | 12:23 |
| johnthetubaguy | did we agree the paste-api.ini changes? | 12:23 |
| johnthetubaguy | its worth a review | 12:23 |
| alex_xu | sdague: thanks, I'm typing slow... | 12:23 |
| johnthetubaguy | I drop /v3 | 12:23 |
| sdague | #action sdague to address any additional tempest issues | 12:23 |
| alex_xu | #topic Test collapse of v2.0 and v2.1 | 12:23 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Test collapse of v2.0 and v2.1 (Meeting topic: nova api)" | 12:23 | |
| oomichi | johnthetubaguy: I much prefer the direction | 12:23 |
| sdague | johnthetubaguy: looks right | 12:24 |
| alex_xu | gmann_: you turn | 12:24 |
| sdague | johnthetubaguy: I thought we were going to drop v1.1 at the same time | 12:24 |
| gmann_ | alex_xu: thanks | 12:24 |
| johnthetubaguy | sdague: oomichi: cool thanks, there is this bit too: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/214592/ | 12:24 |
| johnthetubaguy | sdague: seemed easier to leave it there till we drop /v2 | 12:24 |
| gmann_ | before that - v2.1 default on gate | 12:24 |
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| gmann_ | sdague: regarding v21 deafult on gate | 12:24 |
| gmann_ | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/163718/ , https://review.openstack.org/#/c/207183/ | 12:25 |
| johnthetubaguy | gmann_: my paste-api.ini changes mess up the tempest stuff I guess? we need the v21 job testing v2 instead, or something | 12:25 |
| gmann_ | sdague: can i merge these two patches to move forward? | 12:25 |
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| gmann_ | sdague: i like your approach which makes catalog in much better shape | 12:25 |
| sdague | gmann_: so johnthetubaguy's changes will make it v2.1 on the gate | 12:25 |
| sdague | oh, not quite actually | 12:26 |
| alex_xu | and we still need job for legacy v2? | 12:26 |
| johnthetubaguy | sdague: actually, thinking about it, it makes it the v2.1 v2 legacy mode by default | 12:26 |
| gmann_ | johnthetubaguy: yea not actually | 12:26 |
| sdague | alex_xu: yes, how about I take an action to sort out our eventual test matrix here | 12:26 |
| johnthetubaguy | so we need three tests: v2_legacy, v2.1_compat and v2.1 I guess? | 12:26 |
| oomichi | alex_xu: I feel we need to test legacy v2 now | 12:26 |
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| alex_xu | sdague: that will cool | 12:26 |
| johnthetubaguy | cools | 12:27 |
| gmann_ | sdague: it will have v2onv21 as deafult | 12:27 |
| alex_xu | #action sdague will sort out our eventual test matrix here | 12:27 |
| sdague | I'm not really thrilled with the idea of putting computev2.1 into tempest's service catalog for us, because I feel like we want to not do things that way | 12:27 |
| sdague | I'll have a proposal by end of day | 12:27 |
| gmann_ | sdague: cool. Thanks | 12:28 |
| johnthetubaguy | sdague: cool, I guess we need that test the edges plan in there too | 12:28 |
| edleafe | sdague: what is the main concern? | 12:28 |
| johnthetubaguy | (well, top bottom and interesting) | 12:28 |
| gmann_ | johnthetubaguy: may be all for v21 and one job for each v2 and v2onv21 | 12:28 |
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| johnthetubaguy | gmann_: I am +2 on all those unit test tidy ups now | 12:28 |
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| johnthetubaguy | gmann_: I think it should be, probably | 12:28 |
| gmann_ | sdague: #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/163718/ , https://review.openstack.org/#/c/207183/ , https://review.openstack.org/#/c/163731/ | 12:29 |
| gmann_ | adiantum_: those are all patches for gate v21 thing | 12:29 |
| gmann_ | ops | 12:29 |
| sdague | gmann_: ok yeh, once I'm more awake here I'll dive through them all | 12:29 |
| gmann_ | sdague: Thanks | 12:29 |
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| gmann_ | NExt Topic - Test collapse of v2.0 and v2.1 | 12:29 |
| gmann_ | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:open+project:openstack/nova+branch:master+topic:bp/test-collapse-v2-and-v21,n,z | 12:30 |
| alex_xu | #topic Test collapse of v2.0 and v2.1 | 12:30 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Test collapse of v2.0 and v2.1 (Meeting topic: nova api)" | 12:30 | |
| gmann_ | all patches are up for review. most of them merged. oomichi helped there :) | 12:30 |
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| oomichi | gmann_: yeah, I will check them later :) | 12:31 |
| alex_xu | cool, thanks gmann_ oomichi | 12:31 |
| sdague | ok, will take a quick run through those post meeting | 12:31 |
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| sdague | looks like johnthetubaguy is +2 on them all, so hopefully we can land them today | 12:31 |
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| johnthetubaguy | yeah, sounds promising | 12:31 |
| oomichi | sdague: yeah, agree | 12:31 |
| gmann_ | johnthetubaguy: Thanks i did not see | 12:31 |
| gmann_ | I will rebase https://review.openstack.org/#/c/214985/ too | 12:31 |
| gmann_ | after meeting | 12:32 |
| alex_xu | cool, looks everything good at here. | 12:32 |
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| alex_xu | let's move on? | 12:32 |
| gmann_ | alex_xu: yea | 12:32 |
| alex_xu | #topic Removal of v3 naming from source tree | 12:32 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Removal of v3 naming from source tree (Meeting topic: nova api)" | 12:32 | |
| alex_xu | All the file moving is done | 12:32 |
| alex_xu | just left some class renaming | 12:33 |
| johnthetubaguy | we did the tests above | 12:33 |
| johnthetubaguy | anything left? | 12:33 |
| alex_xu | edleafe: do you still have any trouble? | 12:33 |
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| edleafe | alex_xu: no, I have to clean up some things oomichi noted | 12:33 |
| alex_xu | I saw there still have a lot of comments in the code metion 'v3', those should be cleanup, but not hurry I think | 12:33 |
| johnthetubaguy | oh, so I have a bit, in the config | 12:33 |
| edleafe | but otherwise it's ok | 12:33 |
| sdague | gmann_: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/214985/ seems in merge conflict | 12:33 |
| johnthetubaguy | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/214592/ | 12:34 |
| gmann_ | sdague: yea, i will rebase soon | 12:34 |
| johnthetubaguy | so, just to be clear, we have about 4 working days left before the -2 procedural hammer falls, so we might want to pick our fights here | 12:34 |
| alex_xu | johnthetubaguy: yea, that is important step for remove extension in M | 12:34 |
| edleafe | alex_xu: about the v3 comments: should they be all changed to 'v21', or something else (like 'microversions')? | 12:34 |
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| alex_xu | edleafe: not sure, I few there may have some todo become useless | 12:35 |
| gmann_ | johnthetubaguy: for bug fix too? | 12:35 |
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| johnthetubaguy | I think we just do v3 -> v21 for now | 12:35 |
| sdague | johnthetubaguy: so, I don't think we should say that the extensions configs are removed in M | 12:35 |
| edleafe | alex_xu: ok, I'll check on the TODOs | 12:35 |
| johnthetubaguy | gmann_: bug fixes are OK, assuming there are no string changes, or dock impact | 12:35 |
| sdague | I think we need to give a full cycle there | 12:36 |
| gmann_ | johnthetubaguy: ok | 12:36 |
| alex_xu | edleafe: if we think those are not hurry, let me take care of them, I guess those need some history background | 12:36 |
| johnthetubaguy | sdague: I was being a bit aggressive there, true | 12:36 |
| sdague | because people don't know it's coming unless they were paying attention | 12:36 |
| sdague | I'd just say they are deprecated, and will be removed in the future | 12:36 |
| sdague | but don't say when | 12:36 |
| johnthetubaguy | sdague: yeah, that makes more sense | 12:36 |
| edleafe | alex_xu: sounds good. I wasn't around for that history | 12:36 |
| sdague | othewise, I'm +2 | 12:37 |
| johnthetubaguy | sdague: it was really just a cut and paste from another comment nearby | 12:37 |
| sdague | yep, no worris | 12:37 |
| johnthetubaguy | cool | 12:37 |
| gmann_ | sdague: and when we will plan for removal in N? | 12:37 |
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| sdague | gmann_: probably | 12:37 |
| gmann_ | ohk | 12:37 |
| sdague | but it's a big move, and we need to give people time to absorb it | 12:38 |
| gmann_ | true | 12:38 |
| johnthetubaguy | sdague: +1 | 12:38 |
| alex_xu | sdague: +1 | 12:38 |
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| alex_xu | anymore question on this? | 12:38 |
| sdague | johnthetubaguy: so, I'd also suggest that we actually add a v2.1 config group, even though all it's opts are deprecated, and deprecate the v3 group as a whole as well | 12:38 |
| sdague | just for cleanliness | 12:38 |
| sdague | the v3 group gets deleted in M | 12:39 |
| sdague | the v2.1 has all deprecated options which will go away ~N | 12:39 |
| sdague | because configuring v2.1 via a v3 group is going to be confusing | 12:39 |
| johnthetubaguy | sdague: oh, good idea, I assume I can just set a deprecated group name | 12:39 |
| sdague | yeh, I think so | 12:39 |
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| sdague | johnthetubaguy: if you don't have time for the config thing, I can run with it today | 12:39 |
| alex_xu | sdague: good idea, resolve the confuse | 12:40 |
| johnthetubaguy | sdague: I can tidy that after this meeting, keep you clear for the test stuff | 12:40 |
| sdague | ok | 12:40 |
| edleafe | Will labeling this stuff 'v21' be confusing? We all know that that means 'microversions', but will most people understand that shorthand? | 12:40 |
| johnthetubaguy | edleafe: you access it via the /v2.1 URL, so I am OK with that | 12:41 |
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| alex_xu | or just under the api group | 12:41 |
| gmann_ | but do we want to run v21 based on CONF.osapi_v3(21).enabled? | 12:41 |
| johnthetubaguy | edleafe: we can rename it once we drop v2 code | 12:41 |
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| sdague | gmann_: right, so that option should not get moved | 12:41 |
| sdague | and just be removed in M | 12:41 |
| edleafe | johnthetubaguy: ok, that sounds good. Maybe we'll get some feedback from ops | 12:41 |
| sdague | that was just a massive oversight | 12:42 |
| johnthetubaguy | edleafe: ops? which bit do you want feedback on? | 12:42 |
| gmann_ | sdague: or we just keep that in config and run v21 as deafult | 12:42 |
| sdague | gmann_: right | 12:42 |
| edleafe | johnthetubaguy: if they're setting config options, etc. | 12:42 |
| sdague | for L it's the switch for v2.1 | 12:42 |
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| sdague | enabled by default | 12:42 |
| edleafe | it's the external-facing stuff that I wonder about | 12:42 |
| sdague | in M we delete the option so you can't turn off v2.1 | 12:43 |
| alex_xu | sdague: +1 | 12:43 |
| gmann_ | sdague: ok, cool | 12:43 |
| alex_xu | any more question then move on? | 12:43 |
| alex_xu | I added on more topic | 12:44 |
| alex_xu | #topic microversions client | 12:44 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "microversions client (Meeting topic: nova api)" | 12:44 | |
| johnthetubaguy | edleafe: I am not sure what they will say will stop us removing the options ASAP | 12:44 |
| alex_xu | #link https://github.com/openstack/python-novaclient/commit/39739158b0cf10a775fd3899e35df7f53b4c9336 | 12:44 |
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| edleafe | johnthetubaguy: not about removing; more about naming | 12:44 |
| alex_xu | I saw we just bump to the newest version, I guess there are a lot of middleversion not implement yet, how can we push that? | 12:44 |
| alex_xu | ask each bp owner? | 12:44 |
| sdague | alex_xu: novaclient doesn't implement every bit of the nova api | 12:45 |
| alex_xu | johnthetubaguy: when we freeze python-novaclient? | 12:45 |
| alex_xu | sdague: why? | 12:45 |
| sdague | alex_xu: history | 12:45 |
| alex_xu | sdague: ok... | 12:45 |
| sdague | mostly, I mean, novaclient has never been 100% api coverage | 12:45 |
| johnthetubaguy | alex_xu: unsure, honestly | 12:46 |
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| sdague | so it's kind of ok if exposure of the API features ends up happening when people need them. | 12:46 |
| johnthetubaguy | so given python-novaclient is kinda dying off now, I am OK with us not worrying too much about that either | 12:46 |
| sdague | libraries should freeze with the rest of the code | 12:46 |
| johnthetubaguy | important thing, folks have a pattern to follow now, if they want to add things, which is great | 12:47 |
| sdague | just so we don't disrupt heat / trove / etc releases | 12:47 |
| sdague | johnthetubaguy: ++ | 12:47 |
| johnthetubaguy | sdague: true, dependency freeze hits, and stable branches now, I think | 12:47 |
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| alex_xu | ok, cool | 12:47 |
| alex_xu | so we needn't worry about that, can save some time for us | 12:47 |
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| alex_xu | let's move on | 12:48 |
| alex_xu | #topic API Documentation Improvement | 12:48 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "API Documentation Improvement (Meeting topic: nova api)" | 12:48 | |
| alex_xu | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/nova-v2.1-api-doc | 12:48 |
| alex_xu | I check the v2.1 api doc, to ensure the status | 12:48 |
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| alex_xu | looks like we have a lot of problem | 12:48 |
| johnthetubaguy | alex_xu: how did the discussions go with annegentle on those? | 12:49 |
| sdague | yeh, honestly, until we get some of these pre freeze bits wrapped up, I haven't spent the mental time on this issue. | 12:49 |
| alex_xu | johnthetubaguy: annegentle mention whether we have time to implement the generate swagger from code now | 12:49 |
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| johnthetubaguy | oh, based on the API sample generation code? | 12:50 |
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| alex_xu | I take look into that today, the generate may not hard, but after we generate the swagger, we still missing the parameter explain text. those doc string not in our code | 12:50 |
| alex_xu | johnthetubaguy: based on wsgi stack I guess | 12:50 |
| sdague | alex_xu: right, we should figure out where to put those docstrings in our code | 12:50 |
| sdague | if we have the pattern for one, we can start adding more in that model | 12:51 |
| * johnthetubaguy wonders about extending the json validation... | 12:51 | |
| alex_xu | so I think we jump to generate swagger from code for this time looks like impossible | 12:51 |
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| sdague | alex_xu: yeh, it seems like not a lot of time | 12:51 |
| sdague | I'd say make that an M goal | 12:51 |
| alex_xu | sdague: yea | 12:51 |
| oomichi | johnthetubaguy: yeah, I have the same thinking.. | 12:52 |
| sdague | I think realistic goal for L is an updated concept guide | 12:52 |
| sdague | and any prototyping for swagger that will help us have a plan for M | 12:52 |
| gmann_ | yea, that need lot of manual effort | 12:52 |
| oomichi | we can create sample json files from json-schema. | 12:52 |
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| sdague | I'd like to see enough of a proto type that we can have a summit session in Tokyo on the swagger parts and develop the plan for the cycle. | 12:52 |
| johnthetubaguy | I do wonder about also adding stubs in for the missing API docs, in the existing docs? | 12:52 |
| alex_xu | #link https://github.com/elmiko/pecan-swagger somebody work on generate swagger from pecan | 12:53 |
| johnthetubaguy | sdague: +1 for prototype at tokyo | 12:53 |
| alex_xu | but very initial status of those code | 12:53 |
| sdague | alex_xu / oomichi / gmann_ is a prototype for tokyo realistic? | 12:53 |
| oomichi | sdague: yeah, I can :) | 12:53 |
| alex_xu | sdague: I'm cool | 12:53 |
| sdague | great | 12:53 |
| gmann_ | sdague: sure we can try | 12:54 |
| johnthetubaguy | sounds good | 12:54 |
| oomichi | sdague: that was my first goal when I started validation works 2.5 years ago | 12:54 |
| sdague | oomichi: :) | 12:54 |
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| alex_xu | oomichi: :) | 12:54 |
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| sdague | yeh, it's been a long road here, but things seem to be coming together now | 12:54 |
| johnthetubaguy | oomichi: I remember liking the direction, its great to see us getting close! | 12:54 |
| gmann_ | oomichi: i remember your spec :) | 12:54 |
| alex_xu | so do we still need fix the wadl for now? | 12:55 |
| sdague | alex_xu: honestly, I wouldn't bother | 12:55 |
| alex_xu | the descision is just focus on concept doc? | 12:55 |
| johnthetubaguy | it does seem like a distraction | 12:55 |
| gmann_ | yea, that need lot of work | 12:55 |
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| alex_xu | yea, and will become useless soon | 12:56 |
| sdague | so, how about the following: we aim to have a doc plan discussion in 2 week's time at this meeting | 12:56 |
| johnthetubaguy | what can we do, quick wins to the existing docs for L? | 12:56 |
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| sdague | things should have calmed down on the freeze and bug fix by then | 12:56 |
| johnthetubaguy | yeah, lets table that for then | 12:56 |
| sdague | and we figure out what we can get through pre release at that point. | 12:56 |
| oomichi | yeah, and we need to discuss it across projects | 12:56 |
| sdague | I'll commit to having a base plan at the start of the meeting | 12:56 |
| sdague | and we can sort it out together | 12:56 |
| alex_xu | johnthetubaguy: remove v2.1 doc, ask people reference to v2. because v2.1 compatible with v2 | 12:56 |
| johnthetubaguy | sdague: we have ideas here: https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/nova-v2.1-api-doc | 12:57 |
| sdague | oh, well that's what I get for being out for a week :) | 12:57 |
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| alex_xu | sdague: do you want an action? | 12:57 |
| sdague | sorry for not being caught up on that | 12:57 |
| johnthetubaguy | alex_xu: we need to stop the confusion, thats for sure | 12:57 |
| sdague | alex_xu: lets wait until next week to set the action | 12:57 |
| alex_xu | sdague: ok | 12:58 |
| sdague | #info detailed API doc plan discussion in 2 weeks time | 12:58 |
| sdague | that's probably enough for the agenda | 12:58 |
| alex_xu | let's move on, left 2 mins for open? | 12:58 |
| johnthetubaguy | cool | 12:58 |
| alex_xu | #topic open | 12:58 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open (Meeting topic: nova api)" | 12:58 | |
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| alex_xu | one review requestion in the agenda | 12:59 |
| alex_xu | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/209917/ | 12:59 |
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| alex_xu | zhengyu, are you here? | 12:59 |
| Kevin_Zheng_ | yes | 12:59 |
| alex_xu | Kevin_Zheng_: cool | 13:00 |
| alex_xu | it is bug fix | 13:00 |
| alex_xu | do we have time for this in L? | 13:00 |
| Kevin_Zheng_ | added also user_id this afternoon according to gmann's segestion | 13:00 |
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| Kevin_Zheng_ | I think the code are quite ready | 13:00 |
| johnthetubaguy | it feels a bit like a feature that should wait for M? | 13:00 |
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| sdague | alex_xu: it feels very close to the wire | 13:00 |
| gmann_ | Kevin_Zheng_: yea IMO user_id would be good also | 13:00 |
| sdague | if it was two weeks ago, maybe | 13:00 |
| johnthetubaguy | Kevin_Zheng_: its really a question of review bandwidth | 13:00 |
| alex_xu | yea, a little late | 13:01 |
| sdague | I'm happy to get that in as soon as we reopen master | 13:01 |
| johnthetubaguy | I like the change, but it feels too late | 13:01 |
| johnthetubaguy | sdague: +1 | 13:01 |
| alex_xu | let's end the meeting, and we move the discussion to openstack-nova | 13:01 |
| johnthetubaguy | oops, yes | 13:01 |
| alex_xu | #endmeeting | 13:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 13:01 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Aug 25 13:01:28 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 13:01 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova_api/2015/nova_api.2015-08-25-12.00.html | 13:01 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova_api/2015/nova_api.2015-08-25-12.00.txt | 13:01 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova_api/2015/nova_api.2015-08-25-12.00.log.html | 13:01 |
| gmann_ | Thanks all | 13:01 |
| Qiming | #startmeeting senlin | 13:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Aug 25 13:01:49 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is Qiming. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 13:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 13:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: senlin)" | 13:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'senlin' | 13:01 |
| alex_xu | Qiming: sorry for end meeting late one minute :) | 13:02 |
| Qiming | hello | 13:02 |
| yanyanhu | hi | 13:02 |
| Qiming | alex_xu, fine, :0 | 13:02 |
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| jruano | hi | 13:02 |
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| shihanzhang | hi | 13:02 |
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| Kevin_Zheng_ | hi | 13:02 |
| Qiming | meeting agenda: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/SenlinAgenda | 13:03 |
| Qiming | feel free to add items | 13:03 |
| Qiming | #topic liberty-3 workitems | 13:03 |
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| *** openstack changes topic to "liberty-3 workitems (Meeting topic: senlin)" | 13:03 | |
| Qiming | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/senlin-liberty-workitems | 13:03 |
| haiwei | hi | 13:04 |
| Qiming | seems we still have quite a lot work left to do | 13:04 |
| Qiming | the etherpad is not up-to-date, ... | 13:04 |
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| Qiming | let's do a quick update on this | 13:05 |
| haiwei | yes, the exception handling is almost done | 13:05 |
| Qiming | great. pls update the page if so | 13:05 |
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| Qiming | Triggers implementation is done (server side), not yet committed, waiting for another patch to merge | 13:06 |
| jruano | i am behind, i was out last week. i have time to catch up on my items this week | 13:06 |
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| Qiming | thanks, jruano | 13:06 |
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| Qiming | I was out in trip last week as well, will catch up this week | 13:06 |
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| Qiming | functional test framework is up, that is great! | 13:06 |
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| Qiming | and some fake drivers are already in place | 13:07 |
| yanyanhu | I think I don't have backlog item now since the cleansing of some importand workflows will be done through functional test | 13:07 |
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| Qiming | basically, we made all interactions with other openstack services a plugin now | 13:07 |
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| yanyanhu | of course there are several big functional test cases need to be added to cover this work | 13:08 |
| Qiming | it is a configuration option that can be quickly reloaded (switched), so we can use fake drivers for functional testing | 13:08 |
| yanyanhu | yep | 13:08 |
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| Qiming | yanyanhu, we need to sync on the functional test design, would be a quick one I believe | 13:09 |
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| yanyanhu | yes | 13:09 |
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| Qiming | client unit test has just started, haiwei and I will jump on to that | 13:09 |
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| Qiming | unit test coverage is 82%, pretty good a number now | 13:10 |
| haiwei | I found the client unit tests are already assigned to some guys | 13:10 |
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| jruano | i opened some bugs in the client unit tests | 13:10 |
| jruano | was having some students i was training work on them | 13:10 |
| Qiming | thanks, jruano, will confirm and work on them | 13:10 |
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| Qiming | cool! | 13:11 |
| jruano | yep, some did partial fixes. check with them and reassign as needed | 13:11 |
| Qiming | okay | 13:11 |
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| Qiming | I need to check the container cluster work from Tongji Univ | 13:11 |
| Qiming | see where are we now | 13:11 |
| Qiming | the mentor of that work is on trip these days, will catch him | 13:11 |
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| jruano | please keep me in the loop on that Qiming. i can catch up with that work this week | 13:12 |
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| Qiming | sure, jruano | 13:12 |
| Qiming | those students have been playing with the lb policies and autoscalling policies | 13:12 |
| Qiming | they have found quite some bugs, yanyanhu has been helping them fix them | 13:13 |
| Qiming | an intern from Germany has helped compiled a test report, covering almost all functionalities | 13:13 |
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| Qiming | yanyanhu, please share with the team once you have an updated version | 13:14 |
| yanyanhu | oh, sorry I think I forget to send out the updated document | 13:14 |
| yanyanhu | sure | 13:14 |
| Qiming | it is an encouraging result | 13:14 |
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| Qiming | #topic functional testing updates | 13:14 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "functional testing updates (Meeting topic: senlin)" | 13:15 | |
| Qiming | anything else to share, yanyanhu? | 13:15 |
| yanyanhu | I just merged the test case for cluster creating and deleting today https://review.openstack.org/214090 | 13:15 |
| yanyanhu | I plan to add more tests for webhook with scaling policy and lb policy in the coming one or two weeks | 13:16 |
| Qiming | great. | 13:16 |
| yanyanhu | then we can use them to verfiy the correctness of some important changes | 13:16 |
| yanyanhu | and also will propose a patch to use Senlin generic driver to manage keystone driver | 13:17 |
| Qiming | since functional testing may take some time (though not really interacting with Nova or Heat yet), we need a design that will cover most functions with smallest number of test cases | 13:17 |
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| yanyanhu | yes | 13:17 |
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| Qiming | waiting 2 hours for gate result is not fun | 13:17 |
| Qiming | let's move on | 13:18 |
| Qiming | #topic exception handling | 13:18 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "exception handling (Meeting topic: senlin)" | 13:18 | |
| Qiming | haiwei? | 13:18 |
| haiwei | yes | 13:18 |
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| Qiming | any outstanding issues in this area? | 13:18 |
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| haiwei | the exception handling of the drivers are almost done | 13:18 |
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| haiwei | not that outstanding :) | 13:19 |
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| Qiming | okay, we need to make sure the exceptions are captured and handled in the right place (abstraction layer) | 13:19 |
| haiwei | just like we have designed, we translated all the exception from SDK to internal error and catch them in upper layer | 13:20 |
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| Qiming | there are still some exception types to be killed from senlin/common/exception.py | 13:20 |
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| haiwei | yes, will kill them if they are not used | 13:20 |
| Qiming | we may need a quick sync on that offline | 13:20 |
| Qiming | great | 13:20 |
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| Qiming | Don't know if xinhui is online | 13:21 |
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| yanyanhu | guess not | 13:21 |
| Qiming | pinging | 13:22 |
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| haiwei | send a message on wechat | 13:22 |
| Qiming | #topic placement policy | 13:22 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "placement policy (Meeting topic: senlin)" | 13:22 | |
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| Qiming | hi, admin__, :) | 13:22 |
| Qiming | cool name | 13:22 |
| admin__ | hi, Qiming... | 13:22 |
| Qiming | anything to share with team about placement policy? | 13:23 |
| admin__ | I am adding the across AZ functions into base placement policy | 13:23 |
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| admin__ | Have read the ticket of heat and think implements in senlin should be more easier | 13:24 |
| admin__ | I will send out review for your comments | 13:24 |
| Qiming | great | 13:24 |
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| Qiming | just an update for you | 13:24 |
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| admin__ | another thing is about vspherepolicy plugin | 13:24 |
| Qiming | yes? | 13:25 |
| admin__ | we may need to envolve it with new vio feature on affintiy/anti-affinty | 13:25 |
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| Qiming | do you want to check it in as well? | 13:25 |
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| Qiming | any help needed from Senlin side? | 13:26 |
| admin__ | not just load balancing aware placemet provided and also host level palcement | 13:26 |
| admin__ | yes | 13:26 |
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| admin__ | do you think it is proper for us to check in the vsphere related policy? | 13:26 |
| Qiming | em, sounds interesting | 13:26 |
| Qiming | sure | 13:26 |
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| Qiming | though host level placement is mostly transparent on public clouds | 13:27 |
| Qiming | there are definitely use cases for private clouds | 13:27 |
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| Qiming | just personal view on this | 13:27 |
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| admin__ | agree | 13:27 |
| Qiming | would be interested in seeing the details | 13:27 |
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| admin__ | okay, will send out review | 13:28 |
| Qiming | thanks. it will be at least helpful to trigger ideas when people develop their own policy plugins | 13:28 |
| Qiming | one thing to update with you is a call I just had with TOSCA people | 13:28 |
| admin__ | yes | 13:28 |
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| Qiming | we may need to study the standard and do some work uniforming the terms | 13:29 |
| admin__ | haha | 13:29 |
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| admin__ | what are the first priority? | 13:29 |
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| admin__ | I mean the cooperation | 13:30 |
| Qiming | when looking from a standard's perspective, our sample policies today are still a little bit adhoc | 13:30 |
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| Qiming | we will go in parallel | 13:30 |
| Qiming | the standard is under-development, so is our code | 13:30 |
| admin__ | could you give more introduction on TOSCA | 13:31 |
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| admin__ | its mission and imapct | 13:31 |
| Qiming | we will sync with the team regularly, to make sure we are walking closer to each other | 13:31 |
| admin__ | by this opportuntiy | 13:31 |
| jruano | tosca is gaining a lot of visibility with vendors and cloud customers as well | 13:31 |
| jruano | redhat i believe has adoped it for their platform | 13:32 |
| Qiming | admin__, it will take too much time to go through all the details, I can share with you some docs and links offline | 13:32 |
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| admin__ | jruano, I searched some cooperation between TOSCA AND cloudstack | 13:32 |
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| Qiming | in OpenStack, at least Heat has a sub-project called heat-translator translating TOSCA files to HOT | 13:33 |
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| admin__ | Qiming, seems so complex and can not summerize with several words | 13:33 |
| jruano | yes, for now openstack is the main platform | 13:33 |
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| jruano | i have some overview decks i can share as well. ping me to remind me to send them out | 13:34 |
| Qiming | admin__, if you go through the TOSCA standard quickly, you will find it is not that complicated | 13:34 |
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| admin__ | Okay, thanks, Qiming, thanks, jruano | 13:35 |
| Qiming | it is really targeting real-world problems, not just some docs for you to archive, :) | 13:35 |
| admin__ | good | 13:35 |
| admin__ | I will read it | 13:35 |
| Qiming | #topic senlin-dashboard project | 13:35 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "senlin-dashboard project (Meeting topic: senlin)" | 13:35 | |
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| Qiming | please check the meeting agenda wiki, I have attached two links | 13:36 |
| Qiming | #link https://launchpad.net/senlin-dashboard | 13:36 |
| Qiming | #link http://git.openstack.org/cgit/stackforge/senlin-dashboard/tree/ | 13:36 |
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| Qiming | Zhenguo from Huawei has kindly offered to build a Horizon plugin in a sub-project senlin-dashboard | 13:36 |
| Qiming | we had a discussion on this when I was in Xi'an last week | 13:37 |
| yanyanhu | this is great | 13:37 |
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| Qiming | he is also "recruiting" some developers from 99cloud to work on this | 13:37 |
| yanyanhu | :) | 13:37 |
| Qiming | it will help people get familiarized with Senlin quickly | 13:38 |
| yanyanhu | yep, definitely | 13:38 |
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| Qiming | I'm not a web-UI person, but I believe Zhenguo can help lead that effort well | 13:38 |
| haiwei | is there any milestone for senlin-dashboard | 13:38 |
| yanyanhu | it can also help us to understand how horizon works with backend service | 13:39 |
| Qiming | we may need to help them understand Senlin's concepts and APIs | 13:39 |
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| Qiming | haiwei, not yet | 13:39 |
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| yanyanhu | we are ready for question anytime | 13:39 |
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| Qiming | according to Zhenguo, developing horizon plugin is pretty a straightforward work | 13:39 |
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| jruano | django web app | 13:40 |
| Qiming | we just need the right persons to do this | 13:40 |
| haiwei | it's senlin's sub-project, does it matter if senlin wants to become a openstack project | 13:40 |
| Qiming | haiwei, it doesn't matter, afaict | 13:40 |
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| haiwei | that's good | 13:41 |
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| Qiming | as liberty-3 milestone is drawing near, we will need to work hard to do a release this time | 13:41 |
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| Qiming | sounds ambitious? | 13:42 |
| jruano | it does, but i think it needs to happen this time | 13:42 |
| yanyanhu | we should try our best I think | 13:42 |
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| haiwei | senlin1.0? | 13:43 |
| yanyanhu | 0.1 IMO :) | 13:43 |
| Qiming | yep, maybe senlin 0.1, ;) | 13:43 |
| jruano | 0.2? | 13:43 |
| Qiming | hoho, like that | 13:43 |
| Qiming | 0.2 | 13:43 |
| jruano | lol | 13:43 |
| admin__ | why 2 | 13:43 |
| Qiming | the project wasn't started yesterday, :) | 13:44 |
| admin__ | 2 is special in China | 13:44 |
| admin__ | :) | 13:44 |
| yanyanhu | admin__, LoL | 13:44 |
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| Qiming | it means dumb | 13:44 |
| haiwei | yes, very special | 13:44 |
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| jruano | ah... 0.1 sounds like really early beta code | 13:45 |
| yanyanhu | I think jruano is right | 13:45 |
| jruano | something other than that i think better describes the current state of senlin | 13:45 |
| Qiming | agreed | 13:45 |
| yanyanhu | 0.2 is good | 13:45 |
| Qiming | 0.2 is not 2 | 13:45 |
| admin__ | stay foolish, stay hungry | 13:46 |
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| Qiming | no problem | 13:46 |
| Qiming | #topic open discussion | 13:46 |
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| yanyanhu | oh, the voting result will be published tomorrow | 13:47 |
| Qiming | I don't have more to share | 13:47 |
| admin__ | bless your guys | 13:47 |
| yanyanhu | voting for topic | 13:47 |
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| Qiming | let's pray tonight | 13:47 |
| yanyanhu | thanks ;p | 13:47 |
| haiwei | ok | 13:47 |
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| Qiming | anything else? | 13:48 |
| yanyanhu | nope from me | 13:48 |
| Qiming | or time to pray? | 13:48 |
| haiwei | nothing for me | 13:49 |
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| Qiming | okay, let's end this | 13:49 |
| Qiming | #endmeeting | 13:49 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 13:49 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Aug 25 13:49:31 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 13:49 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/senlin/2015/senlin.2015-08-25-13.01.html | 13:49 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/senlin/2015/senlin.2015-08-25-13.01.txt | 13:49 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/senlin/2015/senlin.2015-08-25-13.01.log.html | 13:49 |
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| haiwei | yanyanhu, are you in senlin? | 13:49 |
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| haiwei | yanyanhu, still on line? | 13:50 |
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| mestery | Who's here for a Neutron meeting? :) | 13:59 |
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| fawadkhaliq | o/ | 13:59 |
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| yushiro | yes :) | 13:59 |
| annp | Hi | 13:59 |
| jlibosva | o/ | 13:59 |
| regXboi | moo | 13:59 |
| carl_baldwin | hi | 13:59 |
| yongshenggong_ | helo | 13:59 |
| hichihara | hi | 13:59 |
| johnbelamaric | hi | 13:59 |
| tidwellr | hi | 13:59 |
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| haleyb | hi | 13:59 |
| hoangcx | Hi | 13:59 |
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| mestery | OK, we have a fairly packed agenda as we near the end of Liberty, so lets get rolling! | 14:00 |
| emagana | buenos dias! | 14:00 |
| mestery | #startmeeting networking | 14:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Aug 25 14:00:27 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is mestery. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 14:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 14:00 |
| pc_m | hi | 14:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: networking)" | 14:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'networking' | 14:00 |
| john-davidge | hi | 14:00 |
| vikram_ | hi | 14:00 |
| neiljerram | o/ | 14:00 |
| mestery | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Network/Meetings Agenda | 14:00 |
| salv-orlando-mob | Aloha | 14:00 |
| obondarev | o/ | 14:00 |
| johnsom | o/ | 14:00 |
| mestery | salv-orlando-mob: -mob? | 14:01 |
| mestery | #topic Announcements | 14:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Announcements (Meeting topic: networking)" | 14:01 | |
| mestery | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Liberty_Release_Schedule | 14:01 |
| mestery | #info Liberty-3 is next week! The end is near! | 14:01 |
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| mestery | #info mestery is on vacation next week and won't be on IRC Sun-Thur | 14:01 |
| mestery | #info armax carl_baldwin and dougwig will handle release duties for Neutron for Liberty-3 | 14:01 |
| mestery | Please, be gentle with armax carl_baldwin and dougwig folks ;) | 14:02 |
| mestery | We have a massive backlog of stuff in Liberty-3, we'll get to that later in the meeting. | 14:02 |
| mestery | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/ReleaseNotes/Liberty#OpenStack_Liberty_Release_Notes | 14:02 |
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| mestery | #info Continue adding release notes for Liberty as features merge or critically customer visible bugs are found | 14:03 |
| mestery | Any other announcements or shall we continue along? | 14:03 |
| ajo | late o/ :) | 14:03 |
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| xgerman | o/ | 14:03 |
| mestery | Lets move along to bugs! | 14:03 |
| mestery | #topic Bugs | 14:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Bugs (Meeting topic: networking)" | 14:03 | |
| mestery | Up first | 14:04 |
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| mestery | #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/1484148 | 14:04 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1484148 in neutron "neutronclient gate broken following VPNaaS infra changes" [Critical,Confirmed] - Assigned to Paul Michali (pcm) | 14:04 |
| mestery | pc_m: What is the curretn status of this one? | 14:04 |
| mestery | It's our only Critical bug at the moment | 14:04 |
| mestery | pc_m: It looks like https://review.openstack.org/#/c/209887/ needs to merge yet? But it's workflow -1 at the moment. | 14:05 |
| pc_m | mestery: There is currently a workaround that disables VPN test cases. | 14:05 |
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| mestery | pc_m: So, is this bug no longer critical then? | 14:05 |
| pc_m | mestery: I have a commit in, but there is an open question posted to ML. | 14:05 |
| mestery | pc_m: Can you dig that lnk out so we can add it in the logs here? | 14:06 |
| mestery | I'll wait for am inute ;) | 14:06 |
| pc_m | mestery: For a final solution, namely to add the plugin | 14:06 |
| pc_m | looking... | 14:06 |
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| neiljerram | http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2015-August/072763.html ? | 14:07 |
| pc_m | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2015-August/072772.html | 14:07 |
| regXboi | no, that's something different | 14:07 |
| mestery | Thanks pc_m and neiljerram | 14:08 |
| mestery | OK, lets move to the next bug | 14:08 |
| mestery | #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/1488282 | 14:08 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1488282 in neutron "Gate failures with 'the resource could not be found'" [High,New] | 14:08 |
| pc_m | mestery: Need decision on how to handle jobs. | 14:08 |
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| mestery | #undo | 14:08 |
| openstack | Removing item from minutes: <ircmeeting.items.Link object at 0xa2ffa50> | 14:08 |
| mestery | pc_m: Reading that email again | 14:08 |
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| mestery | #action mestery to followup with pc_m on a way forward for the client with regards to VPN plugin | 14:09 |
| pc_m | So, bug is not critial, but to do final solution we need to know if want one job for all tests, one for core and adv svcs, or one for each (core, VPN, LB, FW). | 14:09 |
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| mestery | pc_m: Lets do that post-meeting, I'll need to noodle on that email a bit | 14:09 |
| pc_m | mestery: ok | 14:09 |
| mestery | pc_m: I hear you | 14:09 |
| salv-orlando | mestery: cool, I'll have some noodles too ;) | 14:10 |
| mestery | pc_m: I know dougwig is still stuck in Utah (true story) as well, so we may want to wait until tomorrow to circle with him | 14:10 |
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| mestery | OK, lets move on to armax's bug even though he's chosen not to join us this morning | 14:10 |
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| mestery | #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/1488282 | 14:10 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1488282 in neutron "Gate failures with 'the resource could not be found'" [High,New] | 14:10 |
| mestery | Or evening | 14:10 |
| mestery | DEpending on where you are | 14:10 |
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| ajo | :) | 14:10 |
| mestery | So, armax reported this one last night | 14:10 |
| mestery | It's a gate failure .... | 14:11 |
| * mestery runs the logstash query | 14:11 | |
| regXboi | there is a similar signature appearing in the check pipeline as well | 14:11 |
| mestery | regXboi: Oh really? | 14:11 |
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| regXboi | yes, I just had a tempest patch fail on show_tenant_networks returning 404 | 14:12 |
| mestery | Looks like 27 hits according to the query armax posted in the bug | 14:12 |
| mestery | regXboi: Was that the FWaaS thing you were telling me about? | 14:12 |
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| regXboi | mestery: nak | 14:12 |
| mestery | 38 hits | 14:12 |
| regXboi | mestery: the FWaaS thing is something different | 14:12 |
| mestery | regXboi: ack | 14:13 |
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| ajo | what's tempest.api.compute.admin.test_servers.ServersAdminTestJSON.test_list_servers_by_admin_with_all_tenants failing to look for? | 14:13 |
| * regXboi is wondering if there isn't some crosstalk in nodepool again | 14:13 | |
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| mestery | regXboi: Feel free to mark that bug as confirmed since you've seen it as well | 14:13 |
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| regXboi | mestery: done | 14:13 |
| salv-orlando | mestery: wait a sec | 14:13 |
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| * mestery waits a sec | 14:14 | |
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| salv-orlando | I found a concurrency issue in tempest: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/195345/ | 14:14 |
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| salv-orlando | I never went around to complete the fix as it was not showing up again, I wonder if this trace has the same origin | 14:14 |
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| regXboi | salv-orlando: *that* is the signature that I saw in the check pipeline | 14:15 |
| mestery | salv-orlando: It's worth looking into, can you add that into the bug by chance? | 14:15 |
| salv-orlando | I can take over the bug for triaging if you like, my master | 14:15 |
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| mestery | salv-orlando: Thank you ;) | 14:16 |
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| ajo | but isn't that test function targeting nova? | 14:16 |
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| * ajo misses something :) | 14:16 | |
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| salv-orlando | ajo: I know but every tempest test, when run with neutron creates some resources | 14:17 |
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| regXboi | ajo: it targets nova APIs, but the underlying resources are neutrons | 14:17 |
| salv-orlando | in this case I expect that if it creates a server a network and a post must be created somewhere | 14:17 |
| salv-orlando | ajo: I mean... not "somewhere" - I know *exactly* where they are created | 14:18 |
| salv-orlando | or at least I should | 14:18 |
| mestery | lol | 14:18 |
| mestery | Thanks for traiging further salv-orlando | 14:18 |
| mestery | Those were the new bugs I wanted to highlight this week, does anyone have any other bugs they'd like to share with the broader team this week? | 14:19 |
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| pc_m | mestery: FYI, https://review.openstack.org/#/c/214131/ has broken VPN (changed module path and name). I had put a fix in with https://review.openstack.org/#/c/213253/, but do it as a separate commit. | 14:19 |
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| pc_m | but will | 14:19 |
| ajo | ack :) | 14:19 |
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| haleyb | mestery: i've also seen jenkins trip over this bug a lot recently, https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/1488284 - review sent out this morning | 14:19 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1488284 in neutron "_clean_updated_sg_member_conntrack_entries() is throwing an AttributeError occasionally" [Undecided,In progress] - Assigned to Brian Haley (brian-haley) | 14:19 |
| mestery | pc_m: armax and I merged a fix for that last night | 14:19 |
| haleyb | logstash found 23K entries :( | 14:19 |
| mestery | pc_m: I don't have the commit handy, search for merges from armax | 14:19 |
| ajo | hmm | 14:19 |
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| ajo | yikes | 14:19 |
| pc_m | mestery: cool | 14:19 |
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| mestery | haleyb: Yikes, thanks for jumping on that | 14:20 |
| ajo | haleyb: looking at the patch, thanks :) | 14:20 |
| mestery | haleyb: I made that high | 14:20 |
| haleyb | mestery: it was causing another patch of mine to fail jenkins | 14:20 |
| mestery | haleyb: I also added it to our bug-tracker in the meeting | 14:21 |
| mestery | OK, lets move along now! | 14:21 |
| mestery | I see we have emagana this week, so I wanted to see if he would like to give us an update from the Ops Meetup last week? regXboi was tehre too and could chime in as well | 14:21 |
| mestery | #topic Ops Meetup Summary | 14:21 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Ops Meetup Summary (Meeting topic: networking)" | 14:21 | |
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| mestery | emagana regXboi: Sound ok? | 14:21 |
| emagana | I am around! | 14:21 |
| * regXboi defers to emagana to start | 14:22 | |
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| * regXboi also notes dougwig was there, but appears to still be stuck in Utah (and I want to hear that story) | 14:22 | |
| emagana | There were two important sessions for this team. The first one was called "burning issues" and the second "networking model" | 14:22 |
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| mestery | regXboi: It involves a broken axle on his trailer and a blown tire as well. It's not pretty ;) | 14:22 |
| regXboi | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/PAO-ops-burning-issues | 14:23 |
| mestery | emagana: Also, the large deployer session that carl_baldwin and I dialed in for. | 14:23 |
| regXboi | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/PAO-ops-network-model | 14:23 |
| emagana | #link: https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/PAO-ops-burning-issues | 14:23 |
| emagana | ok... I am slow today.. on the links.. | 14:23 |
| * mestery notes that session makes it sound like burning man for networking | 14:23 | |
| * salv-orlando wonders if AAA does not operate in Utah | 14:23 | |
| * mestery hands emagana some coffee | 14:23 | |
| regXboi | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/PAO-ops-large-deployments | 14:23 |
| regXboi | that should be the links | 14:23 |
| mestery | salv-orlando: Not in the middle of the desert | 14:23 |
| emagana | on the networking model you will find that only 1 operators is still using nova-network | 14:23 |
| mestery | emagana: YAAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYYYYYY!!!! | 14:24 |
| mestery | MOAR NEUTRON! | 14:24 |
| * mestery quiets down now | 14:24 | |
| emagana | everybody else uses neutron between ovs and lb will say is 50% - 50% | 14:24 |
| regXboi | um | 14:24 |
| emagana | so, it makes sense to provide the same support to both | 14:24 |
| mestery | Cool | 14:24 |
| regXboi | I would correct that | 14:24 |
| regXboi | I would have said 33/33/33 | 14:24 |
| emagana | regXboi: Yes, please, I did not review the latest changes | 14:24 |
| mestery | emagana: Ack, that's what sc68cal is leading for us | 14:24 |
| mestery | 33/33/33 regXboi? | 14:25 |
| yongshenggong_ | ? | 14:25 |
| regXboi | equal between ovs/lb/something else | 14:25 |
| mestery | OVS - LB - nova-network? | 14:25 |
| mestery | Ah | 14:25 |
| mestery | something else | 14:25 |
| salv-orlando | from what emagana just said, I'd stop even thinking about migration then | 14:25 |
| regXboi | something else = use Neutron as API only | 14:25 |
| mestery | something else being "human defined networking" /cc salv-orlando | 14:25 |
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| regXboi | mestery: rotfl - Nice | 14:25 |
| emagana | regXboi: that is right but the other 33 could be for SDN vendor specific | 14:25 |
| mestery | salv-orlando: I stopped thinking about it a while ago ;) | 14:25 |
| mestery | Those pesky vendors ;) | 14:25 |
| emagana | which means this team should keep supporting that model somehow | 14:25 |
| mestery | YEs | 14:26 |
| mestery | YES | 14:26 |
| mestery | YES! | 14:26 |
| emagana | ha ha ha | 14:26 |
| mestery | And this time, no one wanted to burn us all at the stake either, right? | 14:26 |
| * ajo looks for the LB/QoS volunteers that vanished... will do himself if on time after bugkilling | 14:26 | |
| emagana | anyway.. the topic nova-network - neutron migration was not even mention | 14:26 |
| ajo | O:) | 14:26 |
| regXboi | I'd agree - the LB "vs" OVS discussion was much more interesting | 14:26 |
| emagana | There was a request for a patch to be merge regarding greceful restart of OVS and it is not merged and reported back to the Ops | 14:27 |
| * mestery loves OVS AND Linuxbridge | 14:27 | |
| ajo | emagana: it merged | 14:27 |
| mestery | emagana: We should be able to land that before Liberty ships I expect | 14:27 |
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| mestery | wow | 14:27 |
| mestery | nice ajo! | 14:27 |
| regXboi | emagana: actually, I think that patch merged | 14:27 |
| mestery | cool! | 14:27 |
| * regXboi was watching it | 14:27 | |
| ajo | :D | 14:27 |
| emagana | Yeap! All the details on the etherpads. I dont want to take all the time... | 14:27 |
| mestery | emagana regXboi: Thanks for the update here! | 14:28 |
| mestery | Any other questions from anyone before we move on? | 14:28 |
| emagana | but regXboi mention anything that I am missing | 14:28 |
| regXboi | I actually have one that isn't neutron but dear to my heart | 14:28 |
| salv-orlando | mestery: yeah | 14:28 |
| regXboi | pretty much none of the operators are using ceilometer | 14:28 |
| salv-orlando | no complain about scale this time? | 14:28 |
| emagana | regXboi: That is correct! | 14:28 |
| mestery | salv-orlando: Not a single one | 14:28 |
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| regXboi | salv-orlando: well.... | 14:28 |
| mestery | salv-orlando: They've run out of things to complain about on neutron, they moved on to somethiong else :) | 14:28 |
| regXboi | I wouldn't say there were no complaints about scale | 14:29 |
| salv-orlando | no complain about complexity of managing components of the reference impl for a conf perspective? | 14:29 |
| regXboi | but it wasn't *neutron* scale | 14:29 |
| regXboi | it was *openstack* scale | 14:29 |
| mestery | regXboi: Maybe less complaints? | 14:29 |
| emagana | salv-orlando: the scalability issues were discussed previously and everybody pointed to rabbitmq :-) | 14:29 |
| regXboi | salv-orlando: that was part of the gist of the LB "vs" OVS discussion | 14:29 |
| regXboi | but I think that covers it | 14:30 |
| salv-orlando | regXboi: so in 21st century IT lingo "it does not scale" means I really have no idea whether it works or not but some folks I know had an issue with it so it does not scale" | 14:30 |
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| mestery | lol | 14:30 |
| ajo | rabbitmq is not scaling? :) | 14:30 |
| salv-orlando | emagana: ok, what about managing configuration complexity? | 14:30 |
| mestery | OK, lets move along, we've got more excitement to come in this meeting! | 14:30 |
| regXboi | salv-orlando: yes, most of the issues reported were anecdotal at best | 14:30 |
| ajo | may be we need a rabbit per openstack component in some deployments ;) | 14:30 |
| salv-orlando | that was the other think that concerned operators | 14:30 |
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| * regXboi watches mestery herd the cats | 14:31 | |
| emagana | operators meet-up was weird. The level of participation was not as good as in Philadelphia | 14:31 |
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| mestery | emagana: Maybe the ops were too busy using OpenStack happily to attend? :) | 14:31 |
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| sc68cal | that's because philadelphia is better than every other city | 14:31 |
| * sc68cal ducs | 14:31 | |
| ajo | mestery: +1 :D | 14:31 |
| * sc68cal ducks | 14:31 | |
| emagana | sc68cal: +1 | 14:31 |
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| ajo | :) | 14:32 |
| sc68cal | ;) | 14:32 |
| * regXboi remembers batteries in the snowballs in Philadelphia | 14:32 | |
| xgerman | maybe there are less distractions in Philly | 14:32 |
| emagana | mestery: yeah.. too much noise before the session | 14:32 |
| mestery | OK, now lets move along folks | 14:32 |
| mestery | #topic Docs | 14:32 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Docs (Meeting topic: networking)" | 14:32 | |
| emagana | ok.. I keep going! | 14:32 |
| mestery | emagana: Back to you sir for a quick update! | 14:32 |
| mestery | lol | 14:32 |
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| emagana | To make it short I have updated the wiki yesterday night withpatches needed | 14:32 |
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| emagana | reminder - Please help documenting but no verbatim copies from internet! | 14:33 |
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| neiljerram | Link? | 14:33 |
| mestery | emagana: Good idea | 14:33 |
| ajo | emagana, link? | 14:33 |
| ajo | neiljerram :) | 14:33 |
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| ajo | dup | 14:33 |
| mestery | jinx! | 14:33 |
| emagana | #link: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/196541/ | 14:33 |
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| emagana | One review has a dependency in neytron code: | 14:34 |
| emagana | #link: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/185977/ | 14:34 |
| neiljerram | I meant the link to the wiki that you mentioned. | 14:34 |
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| emagana | neiljerram: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Network/Meetings | 14:35 |
| HenryG | Can we just deprecate the wiki for documentation? | 14:35 |
| john-davidge | emagana: That neutron patch was supposed to merge last night but it got caught in the gate by a merge conflict | 14:35 |
| john-davidge | emagana: Ready to go now, just needs another +2 and a workflow | 14:35 |
| emagana | john-davidge: Thanks, will keep an eye on it.. | 14:35 |
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| emagana | When I said wiki, I mean the Neutron Wiki page | 14:35 |
| mestery | HenryG: +1000.5 | 14:35 |
| salv-orlando | HenryG: We can deprecate but in order for people to know we should write it on the wiki ;) | 14:35 |
| * mestery wants to deprecate all wikis | 14:35 | |
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| salv-orlando | unless you find a way to tell google to give wikis a lower page rank | 14:36 |
| fawadkhaliq | salv-orlando: lol | 14:36 |
| emagana | HenryG: We can move the remaining tasks for docs into a etherpad (already did) if the team prefers that | 14:36 |
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| mestery | emagana HenryG: Ack on that | 14:36 |
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| HenryG | Every wiki page could just be a single link to the real docs? | 14:36 |
| neiljerram | I'm happy to spend some time helping with docs, but it's not clear to me, from https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Network/Meetings, what still needs doing. | 14:36 |
| emagana | neiljerram: I can point you to the right direction after the meeting ;-) | 14:37 |
| emagana | just ping me | 14:37 |
| neiljerram | Cool, we'll do that. | 14:37 |
| mestery | Thanks for the update emagana! | 14:37 |
| mestery | OK | 14:37 |
| emagana | neiljerram: or you can take this one: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/196541 needs to be re-edited | 14:38 |
| mestery | Lets keep the train moving, we're almost out of gas | 14:38 |
| mestery | Or coal | 14:38 |
| mestery | #topic Pecan Branch | 14:38 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Pecan Branch (Meeting topic: networking)" | 14:38 | |
| mestery | salv-orlando kevinbenton blogan: Go or no go for merging this back during Liberty yet? | 14:38 |
| mestery | I still see some patches outstanding when I last looked yesterday | 14:38 |
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| kevinbenton | I think we need to rename the folder | 14:38 |
| kevinbenton | And merge it in | 14:38 |
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| mestery | kevinbenton: Ack | 14:39 |
| mestery | kevinbenton: Want to work with me on that so we can plan to merge it back later this week? | 14:39 |
| kevinbenton | Sure | 14:39 |
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| salv-orlando | kevinbenton: so you've got the remaining todos ready to push? like bulk support? | 14:39 |
| mestery | Awesome. | 14:39 |
| neiljerram | emagana: OK, I'll do that. | 14:40 |
| salv-orlando | mestery, kevinbenton: it does not have to be perfect before merging back, but it must be imho 1) working, and 2) "quasi functionally equivalente" | 14:40 |
| mestery | salv-orlando: Agreed | 14:40 |
| salv-orlando | anyway feel free to keep me involved in the decision for merging it back | 14:40 |
| mestery | It will obviously be disabled by default for Liberty | 14:41 |
| mestery | salv-orlando: Absolutely, and thank you! | 14:41 |
| salv-orlando | now we can move on, my gracious majesty | 14:41 |
| ajo | makes sense | 14:41 |
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| ajo | lol | 14:41 |
| kevinbenton | Right, bulk support will be questionable | 14:41 |
| mestery | #topic Liberty-3 BPs hanging over our heads | 14:41 |
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| *** openstack changes topic to "Liberty-3 BPs hanging over our heads (Meeting topic: networking)" | 14:41 | |
| mestery | We have a lot | 14:41 |
| mestery | A LOT | 14:42 |
| mestery | #link https://launchpad.net/neutron/+milestone/liberty-3 | 14:42 |
| mestery | 31 | 14:42 |
| * ajo looks | 14:42 | |
| * mestery weeps | 14:42 | |
| mestery | I'm going to spend time cleaning this up, but we've reached the part of the cycle where everyone will dislike me as I move things out of Liberty that realistically won't make it | 14:42 |
| salv-orlando | mestery: there's nothing to weep - it's a LOT LESS than the previous cycles | 14:42 |
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| ajo | QoS API extension could almost be cleared out, cleaning out some bugs, and done | 14:42 |
| mestery | salv-orlando: I think armax said that since the vendor decomposition, work has moved to other repos. He may be right. | 14:43 |
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| xgerman | mystery the Octavia one is misclassified: We are almost done | 14:43 |
| mestery | ajo: I'd be good with that, especially if you file the bugs | 14:43 |
| xgerman | mestery | 14:43 |
| mestery | xgerman: You mean it will make Liberty yet? Or no? | 14:43 |
| ajo | mestery: bugs are filed, /me looks for link | 14:43 |
| mestery | dougwig owed me an answero n that | 14:43 |
| salv-orlando | mestery: I think service decomp was even more effective. But we can bikeshed on this another day | 14:43 |
| xgerman | will make Liberty - | 14:43 |
| john-davidge | mestery: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/196541 Is good to go for a seconf merge attempt once it gets another +2. That will close out the IPv6 PD blueprint | 14:43 |
| mestery | ajo: Cool! Please mark the BP complete then | 14:43 |
| mestery | salv-orlando: ack ack ack | 14:43 |
| john-davidge | mestery: wrong link! | 14:43 |
| mestery | john-davidge: Cool! I bet haleyb or carl_baldwin will take you up on that once you get the correct link | 14:44 |
| john-davidge | mestery: correct link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/185977/ :) | 14:44 |
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| mestery | xgerman: So, I'll mark Octavia as "NEeds Review" then | 14:44 |
| xgerman | yep | 14:44 |
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| john-davidge | haleyb: carl_baldwin: I am beholden to your reviews : ) https://review.openstack.org/#/c/185977/ | 14:45 |
| mestery | haleyb carl_baldwin: Could use your eyes and gracious approval on https://review.openstack.org/#/c/185977/ | 14:45 |
| mestery | lol | 14:45 |
| mestery | jinx! | 14:45 |
| ajo | mestery: ack | 14:45 |
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| mestery | kevinbenton: Have you had much of a chance to look at this one: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/neutron/+spec/vlan-aware-vms | 14:45 |
| mestery | Or anyone else? | 14:45 |
| mestery | I see a bunch of patches | 14:45 |
| haleyb | john-davidge: ack, i see it was just rebased | 14:46 |
| mestery | But I'm worried they showed up late in the cycle | 14:46 |
| carl_baldwin | john-davidge: I had it up this morning. | 14:46 |
| kevinbenton | mestery: only briefly | 14:46 |
| kevinbenton | Not looking like it will make it | 14:46 |
| mestery | kevinbenton: Looks like you're the only one to briefly review it so far | 14:46 |
| mestery | yeah | 14:46 |
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| mestery | ajo: Waht is the status of this one? https://blueprints.launchpad.net/neutron/+spec/ml2-ovs-qos-with-dscp | 14:46 |
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| kevinbenton | I think they need a Nova change anyway | 14:47 |
| ajo | mestery: that one is proposed as RFE now, | 14:47 |
| john-davidge | carl_baldwin: haleyb: Thanks guys! | 14:47 |
| ajo | mestery: I told them "show me the code", and we will propose, otherwise: M | 14:47 |
| mestery | ajo: It's out | 14:47 |
| ajo | mestery: I guess the realistic thing is M, | 14:47 |
| ajo | yep | 14:47 |
| mestery | ajo: In agreement with you | 14:48 |
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| * mestery thinks carl_baldwin is busy working on unit tests for address scopes right now | 14:48 | |
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| john-davidge | carl_baldwin: haleyb: Would appreciate some eyes on https://review.openstack.org/#/c/212688/ as well. There’s a bug fix that depends on it | 14:48 |
| carl_baldwin | mestery: Not looking good unless I can find a chunk of time this week. | 14:48 |
| mestery | salv-orlando: This one looks like Mitaka, ack if you agree: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/neutron/+spec/consolidate-extensions | 14:48 |
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| ajo | mestery: also LB/QoS, if volunteers don't reappear I can try for L soon, and we can decide based on how invasive does it look, and otherwise postpone to M | 14:48 |
| mestery | carl_baldwin: We could do an FFE for that one too | 14:48 |
| salv-orlando | mestery: yes, because I am stashing the work on top of the pecan switch | 14:49 |
| salv-orlando | we cannot really make both for L | 14:49 |
| mestery | salv-orlando: ack ack ack | 14:49 |
| salv-orlando | not a slight grim minimal chance | 14:49 |
| vikram__ | ajo: LB/QoS I will be taking it up in M | 14:49 |
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| carl_baldwin | mestery: It is so close. | 14:50 |
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| ajo | vikram__, ideally we should have had it by L :) | 14:50 |
| mestery | carl_baldwin: I know, we'll figure it out | 14:50 |
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| tidwellr | mestery: I've got some doubts about finishing https://blueprints.launchpad.net/neutron/+spec/bgp-dynamic-routing, code and reviews just coming in too late. Not sure if FFE is feasible | 14:50 |
| vikram__ | ajo: I think initial QoS got it there so late :) | 14:50 |
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| ajo | yep | 14:50 |
| ajo | mestery: I tried to mark https://blueprints.launchpad.net/neutron/+spec/quantum-qos-api as complete, no permissions | 14:50 |
| mestery | tidwellr: I'd be up for an FFE for that, but let me work with carl_baldwin and haleyb to understand what that would look like | 14:50 |
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| rossella_s | https://blueprints.launchpad.net/neutron/+spec/restructure-l2-agent needs reviews. I'd appreciate anybody having a look. | 14:51 |
| carl_baldwin | tidwellr: mestery: Let’s sync up on Thursday. See what you can do with it. | 14:51 |
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| mestery | ack | 14:51 |
| vikram__ | carl_baldwin: thanks | 14:51 |
| kevinbenton | rossella_s: ack | 14:51 |
| tidwellr | carl_baldwin: ack | 14:52 |
| mestery | rossella_s: Yes! That will get an FFE for sure, you only need reviews there | 14:52 |
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| mestery | kevinbenton: Get your team on those! ;) | 14:52 |
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| kevinbenton | Team, look at those | 14:52 |
| ajo | rossella_s: ack | 14:52 |
| HenryG | mestery: I assume the reference implementation split is going to M? | 14:52 |
| mestery | kevinbenton: Nice work | 14:52 |
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| mestery | HenryG: Yes, I'm not keen to be burned this late in the cycle | 14:52 |
| rossella_s | mestery, kevinbenton ajo thanks! | 14:52 |
| mestery | I like my skin in an unburned state | 14:52 |
| * kevinbenton has upper management skills :) | 14:52 | |
| yongshenggong_ | kevinbenton: ack | 14:52 |
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| * mestery promotes kevinbenton | 14:52 | |
| ajo | lol | 14:52 |
| mestery | You're a Major now kevinbenton! | 14:53 |
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| emagana | god save the Major! | 14:53 |
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| mestery | lol | 14:53 |
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| mestery | #topic Open Discussion | 14:53 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: networking)" | 14:53 | |
| ajo | talking of this, does it make sense that I merge QoS stuff now, like this now: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/216717/ ? | 14:53 |
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| shihanzhang | for resource timestamp https://blueprints.launchpad.net/neutron/+spec/add-port-timestamp, code is reviewing, Not sure if FFE is feasible | 14:53 |
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| kevinbenton | ajo: isn't that merged? | 14:54 |
| ajo | I'm supposed to do that for reference control plane, but I guess I have good knowledge of the QoS-api / qos-DB / objects / rpc callbacks to do such thing now | 14:54 |
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| ajo | kevinbenton... | 14:54 |
| ajo | ehhmmm | 14:54 |
| ajo | wrong link | 14:54 |
| ajo | sorry | 14:54 |
| mestery | #info Happy birthday kevinbenton! | 14:54 |
| mestery | #link https://youtu.be/1fnhgzV1HhA | 14:54 |
| xgerman | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/214776/ | 14:54 |
| mestery | :) | 14:54 |
| ajo | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/214212/ | 14:54 |
| ajo | :-) | 14:54 |
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| xgerman | more flavor fun | 14:54 |
| ajo | I was meaning stuff like that ^ :) | 14:55 |
| ajo | kevinbenton, happy birthday!!! ;) | 14:55 |
| vikram__ | Happy B'DAY Kekvinbenton! | 14:55 |
| * mestery hopes armax and marun take kevinbenton out for a birthday celebration | 14:55 | |
| salv-orlando | happy birthday kevinbenton | 14:55 |
| shihanzhang | kevinbenton, happy birthday!!! | 14:55 |
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| fawadkhaliq | Happy Birthday kevinbenton | 14:55 |
| mestery | kevinbenton: You're 17 today, right? ;) | 14:55 |
| xgerman | Happy Birthday!! | 14:55 |
| hichihara | kevinbenton Happy Birthday | 14:55 |
| ajo | mestery: lol | 14:55 |
| yongshenggong_ | kevinbenton, have a beer today | 14:55 |
| mestery | :D | 14:55 |
| xgerman | boy genius? | 14:55 |
| kevinbenton | Thanks! | 14:55 |
| liudong | kevinbenton, happy birthday:) | 14:56 |
| rossella_s | happy birthday Kevin!! | 14:56 |
| emagana | Happy one! Felicidades! | 14:56 |
| kevinbenton | yongshenggong_: we had enough beer last week :) | 14:56 |
| yushiro | kevinbenton: Happy birthday :) | 14:56 |
| amotoki | happy birthday kevin! | 14:56 |
| mestery | kevinbenton: And thanks for making OpenStack China hackathon succesful! Next week I'll leave time for you to update the team on what went on there :) | 14:56 |
| emagana | kevinbenton: we want to know everything that happened in China! | 14:56 |
| mlavalle | kevinbenton: feliz cumpleanios! | 14:56 |
| kevinbenton | mestery: I'm on my phone, not enough time to type lots of details | 14:56 |
| vikram__ | ++ | 14:56 |
| kevinbenton | It went well | 14:57 |
| russellb | ugh, had the meeting time wrong on my calendar :( | 14:57 |
| xgerman | pictures? | 14:57 |
| mestery | kevinbenton: Next week | 14:57 |
| emagana | kevinbenton: everything! | 14:57 |
| kevinbenton | Lots of good scalability bugs | 14:57 |
| * john-davidge pours kevinbenton a birthday beer | 14:57 | |
| ajo | ++!! :) | 14:57 |
| mestery | russellb: It's ok, next week you can lead the meeting! :D | 14:57 |
| mestery | beers for everyone! | 14:57 |
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| mestery | :D | 14:57 |
| * russellb buys the beers | 14:57 | |
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| * regXboi asks for two half beers | 14:57 | |
| mestery | OK, thanks folks! | 14:57 |
| russellb | regXboi: granted | 14:57 |
| mestery | Keep the reviews chugging | 14:57 |
| mestery | We've got a lot of code to merge in the next 1.5 weeks | 14:57 |
| * regXboi notes specifically - black and tan | 14:58 | |
| kevinbenton | ajo: I say merge that QoS! | 14:58 |
| mestery | Lets see what we can accomplish | 14:58 |
| mestery | And thanks for making Neutron and OpenStack awesome! | 14:58 |
| mestery | #endmeeting | 14:58 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 14:58 | |
| ajo | kevinbenton: that's what common sense tells me | 14:58 |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Aug 25 14:58:14 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 14:58 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/networking/2015/networking.2015-08-25-14.00.html | 14:58 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/networking/2015/networking.2015-08-25-14.00.txt | 14:58 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/networking/2015/networking.2015-08-25-14.00.log.html | 14:58 |
| yushiro | bye | 14:58 |
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| ajo | but I didn't want to abuse my +2 or +A ;) | 14:58 |
| regXboi | oom | 14:58 |
| salv-orlando | adieuuuuuuu | 14:58 |
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| fawadkhaliq | bye | 14:58 |
| hichihara | bye | 14:58 |
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| hoangcx | Bye | 14:58 |
| xgerman | bye | 14:58 |
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| rossella_s | byeee | 14:58 |
| kevinbenton | Bye | 14:58 |
| yamamoto | bye | 14:58 |
| emagana | ciao pescau! | 14:59 |
| yongshenggong_ | ajo: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/216603/ | 14:59 |
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| vikram__ | bye | 14:59 |
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| annp | bye | 15:01 |
| ajo | yongshenggong_ +++ | 15:01 |
| ajo | thanks :) | 15:01 |
| ajo | yongshenggong_: can you check the tests failures? :) | 15:01 |
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| mestery | Folks: I'm going to cancel the drivers meeting today, or least move it a bit. I don't see carl_baldwin, dougwig is trapped in Utah, amotoki may be here, but kevinbenton is on his phone | 15:03 |
| shihanzhang | I think we can move it a bit :) | 15:03 |
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| kevinbenton | mestery: move 15 minutes into the future? | 15:04 |
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| kevinbenton | i'm on my computer now | 15:04 |
| mestery | kevinbenton: WFM! Ping me when you're ready | 15:04 |
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| * russellb lurks | 15:04 | |
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| russellb | (i'm bad at lurking, i may say stuff :-p) | 15:04 |
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| * neiljerram sits quietly in a corner | 15:05 | |
| neiljerram | emagana: Are you still here? | 15:06 |
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| mestery | neiljerram russellb: Drivers meeting moved out 15 minutes or so | 15:06 |
| russellb | ack | 15:06 |
| neiljerram | ~1 | 15:06 |
| neiljerram | +1 | 15:07 |
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| evgenyf | Hi guys, will neutron advanced services meeting take place today? | 15:07 |
| kevinbenton | mestery: i'm ready now. just wanted to catch up on the responses to the tags thread | 15:07 |
| mestery | kevinbenton: Lets rock and roll baby! | 15:07 |
| mestery | #startmeeting neutron-drivers | 15:08 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Aug 25 15:08:03 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is mestery. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 15:08 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 15:08 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: neutron-drivers)" | 15:08 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'neutron_drivers' | 15:08 |
| mestery | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/NeutronDrivers Agenda | 15:08 |
| kevinbenton | #topic vim or emacs | 15:08 |
| mestery | #info kevinbenton amotoki and mestery are here, though I hope armax and russellb lurk as well | 15:08 |
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| sc68cal | kevinbenton: someone's feeling fiesty | 15:08 |
| mestery | #topic Bug Review | 15:08 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Bug Review (Meeting topic: neutron-drivers)" | 15:08 | |
| mestery | lol | 15:09 |
| mestery | #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/1486649 | 15:09 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1486649 in neutron "Enhance DHCP agent and IP library for networking-calico interface driver" [Undecided,In progress] - Assigned to Neil Jerram (neil-jerram) | 15:09 |
| russellb | that was a very short 15 minutes | 15:09 |
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| mestery | neiljerram: This one is yours I believe | 15:09 |
| neiljerram | Yes, just hoping for support for this to be approved for L-3. | 15:09 |
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| mestery | Looks like haleyb and carl_baldwin are both good with this. As L3 Lieutenants, I trust their judgement here. | 15:09 |
| kevinbenton | neiljerram: you think this is non-invasive enough for l3? | 15:09 |
| mestery | neiljerram: You have haleyb and carl_baldwin onboard, so you're good | 15:09 |
| kevinbenton | ack | 15:09 |
| mestery | kevinbenton: See ^^^ | 15:09 |
| neiljerram | Code is all already there and has been through many cycles. | 15:09 |
| kevinbenton | if they are good, i'm fine with it | 15:09 |
| mestery | kevinbenton: But, please review and if you think otherwise, say so | 15:10 |
| neiljerram | kevinbenton: Yes, I believe so, I've tried to be super-careful about that. | 15:10 |
| amotoki | neiljerram: how many works do we need to complete the rfe? | 15:10 |
| kevinbenton | neiljerram: do you have a link to the code reviews handy? | 15:10 |
| neiljerram | Cedric and Oleg have been v helpful, too | 15:10 |
| neiljerram | Yes... | 15:10 |
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| neiljerram | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/206077/ | 15:11 |
| neiljerram | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/206078/ | 15:11 |
| neiljerram | Note that I have some comments from Carl and Salvatore currently still pending. | 15:11 |
| * haleyb wonders if he got a promotion from 'core' | 15:11 | |
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| mestery | haleyb: Would "private" be acceptable? ;) | 15:12 |
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| haleyb | pfc is fine | 15:12 |
| mestery | lol | 15:12 |
| mestery | I think we can move on from this. neiljerram, you're in good hands here I think | 15:12 |
| neiljerram | But I will address those today, so they will hopefully be mer | 15:12 |
| neiljerram | oops, didn't mean that one. But thanks, mestery | 15:13 |
| kevinbenton | yeah, these don't look too invasive | 15:13 |
| mestery | :) | 15:13 |
| mestery | Cool | 15:13 |
| mestery | NExt up | 15:13 |
| mestery | #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/1468366 | 15:13 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1468366 in neutron "RFE - Logging API for security group and firewall rules" [Undecided,Confirmed] - Assigned to Yushiro FURUKAWA (y-furukawa-2) | 15:13 |
| kevinbenton | looks like a little agreement on abstraction is needed | 15:13 |
| mestery | Logging API for SG and FWaaS rules | 15:13 |
| mestery | sc68cal: This one you've been involved in | 15:13 |
| mestery | And I believe sc68cal may have indicated this is likely a Mitaka thing | 15:13 |
| sc68cal | yep | 15:14 |
| mestery | sc68cal: Commented as such in the review itself | 15:14 |
| sc68cal | Mostly because the spec continued to have only one implementation - that file logging - the api itself did not have flexibility about how the storage part of the API should be pluggable | 15:15 |
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| russellb | sc68cal: sounds like a critical piece to me | 15:15 |
| sc68cal | logging packets on the compute node/network node is not cloudy | 15:15 |
| kevinbenton | so we can marked it as shipped in Liberty but we only support logging to /dev/null | 15:15 |
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| russellb | if there's no info about how to make it seriously useful, no need to rush it | 15:15 |
| sc68cal | plus there was a lot of churn in the specs repo - at one point there were 3 specs filed for the same RFE | 15:15 |
| sc68cal | so they didn't make it easy to review. | 15:16 |
| mestery | #info Logging API is a Mitaka item | 15:16 |
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| HenryG | My issue with it is that a logging API should be one spec, and logging for SG/FW should be a separate one | 15:17 |
| mestery | #topic Open Discussion | 15:17 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: neutron-drivers)" | 15:17 | |
| mestery | Those were the only specific ones on the agenda | 15:17 |
| kevinbenton | hey! | 15:17 |
| kevinbenton | skipped my bug | 15:17 |
| mestery | #undo | 15:17 |
| openstack | Removing item from minutes: <ircmeeting.items.Topic object at 0x9ebe3d0> | 15:17 |
| kevinbenton | https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/1486882 | 15:18 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1486882 in neutron "ml2 port cross backends extension" [Undecided,Confirmed] - Assigned to Dong Liu (liudong78) | 15:18 |
| mestery | kevinbenton: Please, post it here1 | 15:18 |
| amotoki | sc68cal: I hope to keep the rfe bug description to catch up with the ongoing discussion. | 15:18 |
| mestery | #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/1486882 | 15:18 |
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| kevinbenton | i think this will be mitaka | 15:18 |
| sc68cal | amotoki: thanks - although now they're baking rsyslog into the API for logging. :-\ | 15:18 |
| kevinbenton | and am going to discuss it in the ML2 illuminati meetup in september | 15:18 |
| kevinbenton | but the general idea is that we should make the tunnel endpoint a port binding property | 15:19 |
| mestery | kevinbenton: Please don't tell me that ML2 is having a mid-cycle of their own | 15:19 |
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| kevinbenton | mestery: i wouldn't call it a mid-cycle. it's much more like a 3/4ths cycle :) | 15:19 |
| yongshenggong_ | ajo: sure | 15:19 |
| mestery | kevinbenton: I'd argue 99/100 given when it is | 15:19 |
| mestery | But ok | 15:19 |
| russellb | ML2 as a separate group / meetup / whatever seems odd | 15:20 |
| russellb | when it's a fundamental part of core neutron | 15:20 |
| mestery | russellb: Very odd | 15:20 |
| kevinbenton | it's not really a meetup | 15:20 |
| kevinbenton | er midcycle | 15:20 |
| mestery | *sigh* | 15:20 |
| russellb | sprint? | 15:20 |
| russellb | people in a room? | 15:20 |
| amotoki | agree | 15:20 |
| mestery | I wish the ML2 team actually communicated with the neutron team more | 15:20 |
| mestery | I suspect we'll need to deal with that at some point | 15:20 |
| russellb | i don't understand why it's a team exactly | 15:20 |
| russellb | but ok :) | 15:21 |
| amotoki | according to ml2 meeting logs, it seems a sprint for some specific topics. | 15:21 |
| mestery | Me either | 15:21 |
| mestery | #action mestery to encourage ML2 to use main Neutron meeting and communicate more with their overlords | 15:21 |
| mestery | kevinbenton: You can be my trojan horse into ML2 for now | 15:22 |
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| russellb | ha | 15:22 |
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| HenryG | I think it's a carry-over from when it used to be all the driver maintainers in a meeting | 15:22 |
| mestery | HenryG: It appears to now be a vacuum, which is never good | 15:23 |
| mestery | Everytime this has happened, nothing good has come out of it | 15:23 |
| * mestery grumbles | 15:23 | |
| mestery | Anyways | 15:23 |
| mestery | Lets move along | 15:23 |
| mestery | vikram__ has one for us here today too | 15:23 |
| * mestery #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/1476527 | 15:23 | |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1476527 in neutron "RFE - Add common classifier resource" [Undecided,New] - Assigned to YujiAzama (azama-yuji) | 15:23 |
| mestery | This one seems like a Mitaka item to me | 15:24 |
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| amotoki | totally agree | 15:24 |
| sc68cal | +1 | 15:24 |
| mestery | amotoki: Feel free to comment in the bug please | 15:24 |
| mestery | sc68cal as well | 15:24 |
| amotoki | sure | 15:24 |
| amotoki | i have another one bug 1472076. | 15:24 |
| openstack | bug 1472076 in neutron "Add enable_new_agents to neutron server" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1472076 - Assigned to Hirofumi Ichihara (ichihara-hirofumi) | 15:24 |
| vikram__ | mestery: thanks for discussing this up:-) | 15:24 |
| mestery | vikram__: yw :) | 15:25 |
| amotoki | the spec review https://review.openstack.org/#/c/170774/ looks good and it would be small. | 15:25 |
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| amotoki | I was just asked from the author. | 15:25 |
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| mestery | amotoki: I agree with you here! | 15:26 |
| russellb | seems reasonable | 15:26 |
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| amotoki | moved to Triaged | 15:27 |
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| mestery | amotoki: I just merged the spec | 15:27 |
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| mestery | Lets get this into Liberty! | 15:27 |
| amotoki | hichihara: it's yours. now accepted. ^^ | 15:27 |
| mestery | #topic Open Discussion | 15:28 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: neutron-drivers)" | 15:28 | |
| hichihara | amotoki mestery russellb: thank you!! :) | 15:28 |
| shihanzhang | I have anothor one bug 1468236, https://launchpad.net/bugs/1468236 | 15:28 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1468236 in neutron "enable neutron support distributed DHCP agents" [Undecided,Confirmed] | 15:28 |
| russellb | i didn't do anything :) but you're welcome! | 15:28 |
| shihanzhang | it is about distributed dhcp agent | 15:28 |
| russellb | 22 comments on the spec and a couple of -1s | 15:29 |
| mestery | shihanzhang: Looking | 15:29 |
| amotoki | shihanzhang: there seems many comments and more discusssion looks needed. | 15:30 |
| mestery | shihanzhang: I think this is Mitaka at this point | 15:30 |
| amotoki | Early mitaka sounds good. | 15:30 |
| mestery | cool | 15:30 |
| shihanzhang | ok | 15:30 |
| mestery | Anything else? | 15:30 |
| kevinbenton | tags | 15:30 |
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| mestery | link? | 15:30 |
| neiljerram | Is there some kind of knob I should twiddle, on https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/1486649, to indicate approved for L | 15:30 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1486649 in neutron "Enhance DHCP agent and IP library for networking-calico interface driver" [Undecided,In progress] - Assigned to Neil Jerram (neil-jerram) | 15:30 |
| * mestery tags kevinbenton | 15:30 | |
| kevinbenton | shall we do them? | 15:31 |
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| neiljerram | (sorry to bring that up _again_....) | 15:31 |
| mestery | kevinbenton: As long as they are opaque to the backend, I'm +1.5 | 15:31 |
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| russellb | if it tries to be consistent with existing similar things (what nova did is as good as any), and is explicitly opaque to backends (at least in documented intent), then +1 from me | 15:31 |
| kevinbenton | mestery: there is no realistic way to stop a backend from using them | 15:32 |
| russellb | right | 15:32 |
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| amotoki | correct, but we can document for major tags. | 15:32 |
| russellb | any backend officially a part of neutron should be due a wrist slap if they do | 15:32 |
| kevinbenton | something i noticed is that nova tags don't look like key/value pairs | 15:32 |
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| russellb | kevinbenton: true, but the API consumer could just set the tag as "key=value" | 15:33 |
| russellb | if that's what they wanted | 15:33 |
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| mestery | neiljerram: Targeted it to Liberty-3 | 15:33 |
| amotoki | glance and cinder have similar cencept called "metadata". | 15:33 |
| russellb | it's just string blobs stored int he db and reflected back in the API | 15:33 |
| neiljerram | mestery: thx! | 15:33 |
| kevinbenton | russellb: yeah, only thing that sucks about that is you can't ask the API for a specific key | 15:33 |
| russellb | yeah, but it'd be odd if someone had enough tags where asking for a specific one was important | 15:34 |
| kevinbenton | so it will always be up to the client to parse all of the tags to find the one it's looking for | 15:34 |
| * russellb nods | 15:35 | |
| russellb | have to weigh that against cross-API consistency | 15:35 |
| kevinbenton | right | 15:35 |
| kevinbenton | amotoki: how to glance and cinder do it? | 15:36 |
| kevinbenton | amotoki: are they key/value pairs? | 15:36 |
| kevinbenton | amotoki: or just a list of strings? | 15:36 |
| russellb | slightly different concepts though | 15:36 |
| amotoki | kevinbenton: I haven't investigated them yet, but it seems key/valye from horizon impl. | 15:36 |
| russellb | image metadata are defined things | 15:36 |
| russellb | bits of info needed for nova to know how to interpret and consume the image | 15:37 |
| russellb | not opaque user-only things | 15:37 |
| russellb | you can use it for custom stuff too, but that's not the primary purpose | 15:37 |
| russellb | IIRC | 15:37 |
| * mestery is in two meetings and 3 conversations right now so is having trouble | 15:37 | |
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| amotoki | iirc glance image metadata has hypervisor-specific information | 15:37 |
| russellb | right | 15:37 |
| kevinbenton | ok | 15:38 |
| russellb | not sure about the cinder one, i don't remember that | 15:38 |
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| amotoki | one important point is that it is visible for admin | 15:38 |
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| mestery | amotoki: That's a good point indeed | 15:39 |
| russellb | which? | 15:39 |
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| mestery | russellb: these being visible to admin | 15:40 |
| -amotoki- should reply the mailing thread rather than discuss here | 15:40 | |
| russellb | right, isn't everything? :) | 15:41 |
| kevinbenton | russellb: i think admin-only is what amotoki meant | 15:41 |
| mestery | yeah, true, like I said, in 2 meetings and 3 conversations, and failing at all of them | 15:41 |
| russellb | kevinbenton: oh, for cinder and glance? | 15:42 |
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| kevinbenton | amotoki: was that for cinder or glance? | 15:42 |
| kevinbenton | regardless, i guess the outcome is that we are okay with tags | 15:43 |
| amotoki | kevinbenton: yes, but i need to check | 15:43 |
| salv-orlando | re tags: the temptation of using them as a way for stashing everything you want in it will be too much for many devs | 15:44 |
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| kevinbenton | perhaps we can add a feature that randomly deletes them | 15:44 |
| kevinbenton | to show how unreliable they are for devs :) | 15:44 |
| salv-orlando | we can support them and they're a good thing to have, but we just can't stop plugins from using them to push info down to backends | 15:44 |
| mestery | The issue for me here is that once that happens it's game over for the neutron API as an abstraction I guess | 15:44 |
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| russellb | it's something ot watch out for for things in the neutron stadium | 15:45 |
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| russellb | if someone is a bad actor, they should be asked to remove that | 15:45 |
| mestery | Agreed | 15:45 |
| russellb | (or be removed from neutron) | 15:45 |
| russellb | if they're removed, they do what they want | 15:45 |
| kevinbenton | but couldn't they do the same thing with the name field right now? | 15:45 |
| russellb | and whatever, no sense worrying about that case | 15:45 |
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| salv-orlando | my opinion now is that you can't just stop that from happening | 15:46 |
| russellb | sure, or port binding profile for ports at least | 15:46 |
| amotoki | port binding is a chaos field :-( | 15:46 |
| salv-orlando | and on the other hand tagging are a good thing to have | 15:46 |
| mestery | salv-orlando: But we can force them out of the stadium | 15:46 |
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| russellb | there are standards, man! | 15:46 |
| salv-orlando | mestery: I think we've there long enough to know that doing police work is just a waste of time | 15:46 |
| mestery | salv-orlando: Yes, and haters gonna hate, and marketers gonna market | 15:47 |
| mestery | MEh | 15:47 |
| mestery | So, do we just allow this in? | 15:47 |
| russellb | with caveats in the spec and code? wfm | 15:47 |
| salv-orlando | fwiw I am ok with it | 15:47 |
| kevinbenton | +1 | 15:47 |
| russellb | happy to review the impl :) | 15:47 |
| salv-orlando | who knows this perhaps will stop several teams from pushing weird attribute extensions | 15:47 |
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| mestery | yay! | 15:48 |
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| mestery | Consensus on a good hearted and useful feature that will be used by evil people everywhere for nefarious purposes! | 15:48 |
| mestery | :) | 15:48 |
| russellb | yup | 15:48 |
| mestery | Shall we close this meeting now or is there other things to discuss? | 15:48 |
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| mestery | I'll take that as a +1 from everyone then. | 15:49 |
| mestery | Thanks for the discussion today! | 15:49 |
| mestery | #endmeeting | 15:49 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 15:49 | |
| russellb | o/ | 15:49 |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Aug 25 15:49:41 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 15:49 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_drivers/2015/neutron_drivers.2015-08-25-15.08.html | 15:49 |
| neiljerram | o/ | 15:49 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_drivers/2015/neutron_drivers.2015-08-25-15.08.txt | 15:49 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_drivers/2015/neutron_drivers.2015-08-25-15.08.log.html | 15:49 |
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| amotoki | thanks, bye! | 15:50 |
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| vikram__ | bye | 15:51 |
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| * morgan sets up camp. | 17:51 | |
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| morgan | ajayaa, amakarov, ayoung, breton, browne, davechen, david8hu, dolphm, dstanek, ericksonsantos, geoffarnold, gyee, henrynash, hogepodge, htruta, jamielennox, joesavak, lbragstad, lhcheng, marekd, morganfainberg, nkinder, raildo, rharwood, rodrigods, roxanaghe, samueldmq, stevemar, tsymanczyk, topol, vivekd, wanghong | 17:57 |
| amakarov | o/ | 17:58 |
| tsymanczyk | \o | 17:58 |
| dstanek | o/ | 17:58 |
| morgan | Courtesy ping for Keystone Irc meeting | 17:58 |
| rodrigods | o/ | 17:58 |
| raildo | \o/ | 17:58 |
| samleon_ | o/ | 17:58 |
| david8hu | \o/ | 17:58 |
| lbragstad | hey | 17:58 |
| geoffarnold | \o/ | 17:58 |
| morgan | Should be a short meeting today i hope | 17:59 |
| dolphm | \o/ | 17:59 |
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| morgan | #startmeeting keystone | 17:59 |
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| openstack | Meeting started Tue Aug 25 17:59:33 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is morgan. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 17:59 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 17:59 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 17:59 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'keystone' | 17:59 |
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| morgan | Hi everybody! feature freeze is around the corner | 17:59 |
| henrynash | wow….meeting started on the nose | 18:00 |
| morgan | Please take some | 18:00 |
| morgan | Time and check out keystoneauth. We would like to cut 1.0 this week | 18:00 |
| morgan | But if it isnt ready, it isnt ready | 18:00 |
| morgan | This request is for a full review of the library not specific patches. | 18:00 |
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| morgan | Ok moving on to the topics today. | 18:00 |
| bknudson | we can't test keystoneauth with the feature branch | 18:01 |
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| morgan | No you cant at the moment. | 18:01 |
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| bknudson | at least the ksc branch with master merged | 18:01 |
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| bknudson | (master from a few weeks ago, don't know about today's) | 18:02 |
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| bknudson | so i don't think we should release ksa if we can't test it. | 18:02 |
| morgan | We are in a chicken and egg | 18:02 |
| morgan | We are going to need to release it to really test it | 18:02 |
| bknudson | we need a release of ksa. | 18:02 |
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| bknudson | then we can test it | 18:02 |
| samueldmq | 1.0-beta | 18:03 |
| bknudson | here's the change to release ksa 0.4.0: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/213573/ | 18:03 |
| morgan | The integration branch isnt going to really work until we do. And real testing cant happen until we are set. Anyway we need to declare the interfaces stable | 18:03 |
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| bknudson | then the ksc branch can run with that | 18:03 |
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| morgan | That is the major concern with 1.0 | 18:03 |
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| morgan | I cant add ksa to g-r until we are saying the interfaces are stable | 18:04 |
| morgan | And testing is very limited until then | 18:04 |
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| bknudson | the feature branch doesn't use g-r | 18:04 |
| morgan | The feature branch also not a good representation | 18:04 |
| morgan | Anyway to discuss offline | 18:05 |
| morgan | #topic improper handling in osc of certain entities | 18:05 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "improper handling in osc of certain entities (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:05 | |
| morgan | henrynash: o/ | 18:05 |
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| henrynash | ok, so I think davechen raise this…you on? | 18:05 |
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| henrynash | ok, I’ll handle | 18:06 |
| henrynash | so the issue is that osc assumes that all entitis have a name attribute | 18:06 |
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| henrynash | (that’s how osc show works) | 18:06 |
| henrynash | and we used to adhere to that rule | 18:06 |
| morgan | We need a "name" attribute? | 18:06 |
| henrynash | ..but more recently created entities don’t (e.g. IDP) | 18:07 |
| morgan | This is kind of a silly requirement. But meh. I dont care which way we go | 18:07 |
| henrynash | so we either need to make osc more flexibe (my choice too) or have to give all our entities a name attrib | 18:07 |
| bknudson | I don't think we should change keystone to meet osc. | 18:07 |
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| gyee | make osc support extras | 18:08 |
| bknudson | we need to be able to build the rest interface the way that works best for us. | 18:08 |
| gyee | just kidding | 18:08 |
| henrynash | that’s my view too, but wanted to get other’s views | 18:08 |
| dolphm | regions don't have names, either, i don't think | 18:08 |
| henrynash | yeah, there a few that don't | 18:08 |
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| dolphm | bknudson: ++ | 18:08 |
| gyee | dolphm, region used to have name | 18:09 |
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| morgan | Dont have a strong opinion on this. But the argument is going to be consistency in the openstack apis | 18:09 |
| dstanek | our models should be ours and not based on outside forces | 18:09 |
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| dolphm | gyee: now, it was just region="abcxyz" and then when we made it a first class entity, we moved that arbitrary string value into the id field, so {"region": {"id": "abcxyz"} | 18:09 |
| morgan | Same basic argument as the pagination thing: resources should look like a certain thing | 18:09 |
| dolphm | } | 18:09 |
| morgan | So assumptions can be made | 18:09 |
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| henrynash | morgan: so that’s a good question…is that a cross-OS statement - that first class entities should have a name attribute? | 18:10 |
| morgan | I would ask the api-wg | 18:10 |
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| dolphm | morgan: there are surely other things that exist without names... | 18:10 |
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| morgan | If they say yes, then the direction becomes easier | 18:10 |
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| gyee | dolphm, k, I thought "region" itself is a name, maybe not | 18:10 |
| henrynash | morgan: ok, I’ll take that action | 18:10 |
| dolphm | gyee: sort of, yes | 18:10 |
| morgan | If they say "no" or "undefined" we should change osc | 18:10 |
| haneef | we don't have name for certain entities, but in id we actually store names instead of uuid | 18:11 |
| henrynash | haneef: agreed | 18:11 |
| gyee | like IdP, protocol, etc | 18:11 |
| dolphm | haneef: the difference between an ID and a name is whether it's the URI reference or not | 18:11 |
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| morgan | If we need to represent an attribute as both name and something else we can do that too | 18:11 |
| dolphm | haneef: and mutability. IDs are not mutable, names generally are | 18:12 |
| morgan | For the sake of "consistency". | 18:12 |
| henrynash | ok, et me take this to the api-wg | 18:12 |
| morgan | But lets see what the api-wg sayd | 18:12 |
| henrynash | ok, so we have a sublimental question | 18:12 |
| lhcheng | henrynash: do you have more context what's the issue on osc show command? is it error-ing out? not sure if it is really an issue on osc. | 18:12 |
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| morgan | If they don't say name should be there, we work with osc to better support the varying data models | 18:12 |
| henrynash | so that is part of the 2nd question | 18:13 |
| henrynash | the way osc show works is it does a list filtered on the name | 18:13 |
| morgan | Ick | 18:13 |
| morgan | But sure | 18:13 |
| henrynash | in keystone, are rule for filtering is if you provide a filter we don’t understand, then we ignore it | 18:13 |
| morgan | Like i said we might need to be smarter internally if the client cant be | 18:13 |
| morgan | We should return no results with a bogus filter imo | 18:14 |
| henrynash | some folks feel that maybe if you supplya filter we don’t understand you should get nothing from a list request | 18:14 |
| henrynash | and that is the question | 18:14 |
| morgan | You asked for something we cant answer, no results match | 18:14 |
| gyee | ++ | 18:14 |
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| dstanek | what is an example of a filter we don't understand? something like: ?bugus=true ? | 18:15 |
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| henrynash | so think when we last had this discussion we decided the opposite :-), but Im fine with changing it….but suscpetd we would have to have a deprecation cycle | 18:15 |
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| gyee | henrynash, aren't some of the filters directly tied to authorization as well | 18:15 |
| * morgan doesnt remeber this alternate decision | 18:15 | |
| gyee | ? | 18:15 |
| gyee | like filter_protected? | 18:16 |
| henrynash | dstanek: yes …and in this case list IDP?name=xyz (!) | 18:16 |
| henrynash | morgan: twas a long time ago! | 18:16 |
| morgan | I would push towards bogus filters = no results | 18:16 |
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| haneef | gyee: yes. domain_id filter is tied to authrorization | 18:16 |
| morgan | That seems... More "normal" | 18:16 |
| gyee | so bogus filter would yield a 401 sometime | 18:16 |
| dstanek | morgan: ++ | 18:16 |
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| henrynash | so I’m cool woth that….but suggest we must depreacte the old functionality | 18:17 |
| gyee | will have to double check that code | 18:17 |
| morgan | gyee: we'll have to work on some of that. The protected decorators are going to go away | 18:17 |
| dstanek | that basically means pulling out the query params we know about and assuming the rest are filters | 18:17 |
| morgan | dstanek: yah. A bit more work | 18:17 |
| samueldmq | morgan, ++ it's like having a sieve where the grains do not pass, which makes sense | 18:17 |
| lhcheng_ | henrynash: thought that is controlled in the osc code, filtering by name/id is only done if the entity supports it. | 18:17 |
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| dstanek | this can break the world since right now things would just work | 18:17 |
| samueldmq | dstanek, yeah, that's how we need to deprecate | 18:18 |
| henrynash | lhcheng_: but you can fire any http command you like at keystone with radome filtes | 18:18 |
| samueldmq | dstanek, why* | 18:18 |
| morgan | henrynash: so lets propose the changes to filters and talk to api-wg | 18:18 |
| dstanek | samueldmq: users?what=huh will give me all of the users in the future it won't | 18:18 |
| morgan | I think that is all we have to discuss at this point. | 18:19 |
| henrynash | dstanek:++ | 18:19 |
| samueldmq | dstanek, yes, is there a way to deprecate bad usage of a call ? | 18:19 |
| morgan | I think that is all we have to discuss at this point. | 18:19 |
| henrynash | morgan: agreed - i’ll take both to the api-wg | 18:19 |
| samueldmq | dstanek, like, warning in the logs ? that's all ? | 18:19 |
| morgan | Sounds good | 18:19 |
| morgan | Ok lets move on | 18:19 |
| dstanek | samueldmq: not that easy since this isn't necessarily a server thing | 18:20 |
| morgan | henrynash: maybe we make an explicit filter= param | 18:20 |
| morgan | henrynash: and leave the old behavior as is for now | 18:20 |
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| morgan | Anyway moving on - we can see what the api-wg comes back with | 18:21 |
| samueldmq | dstanek, I think so, it's basically the server behavior that is changing, isn't it ? | 18:21 |
| morgan | #topic Call For Reviews | 18:21 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Call For Reviews (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:21 | |
| morgan | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/213820/ assignment testing chain please review | 18:21 |
| morgan | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/214766/ | 18:21 |
| morgan | That is the websso chain, please review | 18:21 |
| henrynash | thx | 18:22 |
| morgan | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/212045/ | 18:22 |
| morgan | Reseller | 18:22 |
| morgan | Please review | 18:22 |
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| morgan | #topic policies | 18:22 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "policies (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:22 | |
| morgan | gyee: O/ | 18:22 |
| gyee | I had a chat with samueldmq over this | 18:23 |
| samueldmq | o/ | 18:23 |
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| gyee | so there are some security issues we may need to address | 18:23 |
| gyee | 1) policy validation, like maintaining the hash for validation at the endpoint | 18:24 |
| morgan | What validation? | 18:24 |
| morgan | Please be more specific | 18:24 |
| gyee | making sure the policy the endpoints received has not been altered | 18:24 |
| dstanek | are we talking endpoint policy stuff, dynamic policy stuff, other? | 18:25 |
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| gyee | endpoint policy | 18:25 |
| samueldmq | dstanek, policy distribution | 18:25 |
| david8hu | gyee, like man in the middle attack? | 18:25 |
| samueldmq | morgan, that's kind of what lhcheng_ asked in the spec, a mechanism to check the policy has not been altered by a mitm attack | 18:25 |
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| samueldmq | david8hu, ++ | 18:26 |
| gyee | david8hu, right, or just making sure the file on disk is consistent | 18:26 |
| samueldmq | dstanek and marekd suggested that TLS solves that already, but gyee wanted another level of checking (optionally) | 18:26 |
| david8hu | ++ | 18:26 |
| * morgan falls back to "we should use cms and not distribute policy via keystone" but has lost that argument | 18:26 | |
| dstanek | morgan: ++ | 18:27 |
| morgan | and where do you get this checksum? Keystone? | 18:27 |
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| dstanek | so where does the hash come from? | 18:27 |
| morgan | Also subject to mitm | 18:27 |
| gyee | not if they are signed | 18:27 |
| dstanek | the only safe way to do it would be to hard code it in the config or some other non-Keystone process | 18:27 |
| morgan | TLS is sufficient in these regards unless we are doing pki signatures and im going to -2 that for now | 18:27 |
| morgan | Dont over think this to start | 18:28 |
| morgan | This is scope creep | 18:28 |
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| gyee | k | 18:28 |
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| morgan | Build signing afterwards on top of it once it works. TLS is good enough for now | 18:28 |
| dstanek | yeah, no reason to build TLS over TLS | 18:28 |
| gyee | not TLS over TLS | 18:29 |
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| morgan | gyee: no need to add this in until it works | 18:29 |
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| morgan | So focus on working before layering added security above and beyond what we rely on today | 18:29 |
| gyee | well, "works" is a funny definition | 18:29 |
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| gyee | it would be hard to make it "work" without passing the security review | 18:30 |
| morgan | Works: is usable beyond a proof of concept | 18:30 |
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| morgan | gyee: if TLS doesnt pass security review, keystone doesnt pass security review | 18:30 |
| dstanek | gyee: has this been run by the openstack security team? | 18:31 |
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| gyee | dstanek, I think the spec have a security tag on them | 18:31 |
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| gyee | will need to double check | 18:31 |
| dstanek | gyee: are there attack vectors you know of that go against a TLS only version of this? | 18:31 |
| morgan | So functionally complete. Then we can layer signing over it later. In openstack we rely on TLS for most mitm prevention | 18:31 |
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| bknudson | if they can subvert the policy file then they can also subvert the signing cert. | 18:32 |
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| lhcheng_ | we'd like to have signing as well. But I agree that can be added later. | 18:32 |
| bknudson | and if you can distribute the signing cert securely then use the same method to distribute the policy file | 18:32 |
| gyee | yeah, if they can subvert signing cert, then game over | 18:32 |
| morgan | gyee: and we're back to relying on TLS | 18:33 |
| gyee | signing cert is provisioned via CMS at bootstrap | 18:33 |
| morgan | So lets stick with TLS for now | 18:33 |
| gyee | k | 18:33 |
| lhcheng_ | we kinda have a similar system like that, so I assume our security team will ask for a way to verify that the policy file is not tampered. | 18:33 |
| morgan | Circle back on this convo during security review and after this is functionally complete | 18:34 |
| morgan | This is still scope creep | 18:34 |
| gyee | sure, that's fine, just want to raise the issue so we are aware of it | 18:34 |
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| samueldmq | gyee, another thing is that you guys would like to have a sort of 'auditing' mechanism ,to know hwat endpoints were updated, right? | 18:35 |
| morgan | lhcheng_: cms and Samhain | 18:35 |
| gyee | 2) we need an auditing/reporting mechanism to make sure all the nodes are updated and when | 18:35 |
| morgan | lhcheng_: that is my recommendation | 18:35 |
| morgan | gyee: back to my view: use cms. But on topic - propose something :) | 18:36 |
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| morgan | This sounds like a spec or ML topic | 18:36 |
| gyee | morgan, sure, probably in M | 18:36 |
| morgan | Yep | 18:36 |
| gyee | basically, dynamically is non-starter without policy distribution | 18:37 |
| gyee | dynamic policy I mean | 18:37 |
| * dstanek thinks Keystone is becoming much more than a identity service | 18:37 | |
| bknudson | split out policy service | 18:37 |
| bknudson | doesn't need to be in keystone | 18:37 |
| gyee | dstanek, keystone is not even an identity service :) | 18:37 |
| morgan | I largely remain unconvinced dynamic policy is worth it. | 18:37 |
| lhcheng_ | morgan: sure, but if can keystone can provide it less integration work for me :P | 18:37 |
| dstanek | is policy distribute the policy over HTTP? | 18:38 |
| gyee | bknudson, sure, I have not issue with that :) | 18:38 |
| morgan | We have so many other things to fix that would inprove qol before we try and solve making policy change on demand | 18:38 |
| bknudson | microservices | 18:38 |
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| morgan | Seriously i see dynamic policy worth more once we split service-to-service and used-to-service authz | 18:39 |
| gyee | dstanek, no, HTTPS | 18:39 |
| henrynash | I also think that if we are solving dynamic policy by slurping the files around, then we shouldn’t be in that business. That is indeed cms. | 18:39 |
| morgan | It also makes dynamic policy a much smaller scope | 18:39 |
| samueldmq | morgan, so a separate service for policy management/distribution | 18:39 |
| morgan | samueldmq: that is not waht i said at all | 18:39 |
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| gyee | samueldmq, no, they are talking about a authz service I think | 18:39 |
| morgan | Nope | 18:40 |
| morgan | Anyway all of this is offtopic here | 18:40 |
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| dstanek | was that the last topic? | 18:41 |
| morgan | lhcheng_: there are ideas i have but just keep in mind that if you can subvert the policy file you can likley subvert the certs. | 18:41 |
| morgan | So back to standard how to manage an IDS. | 18:41 |
| morgan | dstanek: yep | 18:41 |
| morgan | And we're going to call the meeting early | 18:41 |
| morgan | Give everyone 20m back today. Yay! | 18:41 |
| morgan | Thanks everyone. | 18:41 |
| gyee | more coffee time! | 18:41 |
| bknudson | thanks | 18:42 |
| samueldmq | thanks | 18:42 |
| morgan | #endmeeting | 18:42 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 18:42 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Aug 25 18:42:01 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 18:42 |
| lhcheng_ | thanks! | 18:42 |
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| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2015/keystone.2015-08-25-17.59.html | 18:42 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2015/keystone.2015-08-25-17.59.txt | 18:42 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2015/keystone.2015-08-25-17.59.log.html | 18:42 |
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| morgan | dstanek: can i ask a favor? | 18:42 |
| david8hu | The difference between deploying policy file through CMS vs centralized policy in keystone is that CMS knows about all of nodes. The challenge is making sure all the nodes picked the updated policy. If not, why not. | 18:42 |
| dstanek | morgan: sure | 18:42 |
| morgan | dstanek: mind cleaning up the meeting agenda page and putting the bullet in for the next date? | 18:42 |
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| dstanek | morgan: sure | 18:43 |
| morgan | dstanek: thanks! | 18:43 |
| morgan | Im going to go get coffee and lunch. :) | 18:43 |
| dstanek | morgan: my pleasure | 18:43 |
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| jeblair | wow! keystone finished early?! | 18:57 |
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| raildo | lol | 18:58 |
| jeblair | i think that's happened... twice now. | 18:58 |
| samueldmq | jeblair, yes, we're done :) | 18:59 |
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| Clint | it's the magic of morgan's new nick | 18:59 |
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| jeblair | Clint: everything is shorter! | 18:59 |
| * Clint nods. | 18:59 | |
| clarkb | o/ | 19:00 |
| jeblair | howdy infra folkses | 19:00 |
| nibalizer | o/ | 19:00 |
| Clint | o/ | 19:00 |
| crinkle | o/ | 19:00 |
| taron | o/ | 19:00 |
| SotK | o/ | 19:00 |
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| fungi | hey-o! | 19:00 |
| yolanda_ | o/ | 19:00 |
| spotz | o/ | 19:00 |
| morgan | Clint: my nic has always been "entertaining" in that regard. | 19:00 |
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| jeblair | #startmeeting infra | 19:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Aug 25 19:00:39 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is jeblair. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 19:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 19:00 |
| jesusaurus | o/ | 19:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:00 | |
| jeblair | #link agenda https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/InfraTeamMeeting#Agenda_for_next_meeting | 19:00 |
| jeblair | #link previous meeting http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2015/infra.2015-08-18-19.01.html | 19:00 |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'infra' | 19:00 |
| jeblair | #topic Specs approval: Host Stackalytics Service | 19:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Specs approval: Host Stackalytics Service (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:00 | |
| ianw | o/ | 19:00 |
| rbradfor | o. | 19:00 |
| vkmc | o/ | 19:00 |
| jeblair | #link Host Stackalytics Service spec https://review.openstack.org/#/c/187715/ | 19:00 |
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| jeblair | pabelanger: put this on the agenda i believe | 19:01 |
| anteaya | he did | 19:01 |
| zaro | o/ | 19:01 |
| jeblair | i'm not entirely clear on where we are with mirantis and stackalytics.org | 19:01 |
| tchaypo | \o | 19:01 |
| anteaya | jeblair: they are all behind it last I heard | 19:02 |
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| anteaya | the patchset prior to the last has jaypipes +1 | 19:02 |
| anteaya | then it got removed for grammar fixes | 19:02 |
| jeblair | cool, and the spec certainly says they are behind the idea of running it in infra generally at lesat | 19:02 |
| anteaya | time to merge | 19:02 |
| jeblair | anteaya: i think we can mentally carry that over | 19:02 |
| anteaya | I'm for that | 19:02 |
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| jeblair | so yeah, it does seem like this has been discussed and revised appropriately and is ready for voting | 19:02 |
| jeblair | any objections? | 19:02 |
| fungi | i'm not convinced default_data.json should move into openstack-infra/project-config but we can fine-tune when it gets to that point | 19:03 |
| pabelanger | o/ | 19:03 |
| jeblair | fungi: oh good point. that may want to be its own repo (we're collecting repos that are for data files) | 19:03 |
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| jeblair | but agree, it won't kill us if it is, and we can amend the spec with that improvement | 19:04 |
| fungi | on the whole the plan looks sound | 19:04 |
| jeblair | #info Host Stackalytics Service spec voting open until 2015-08-27 19:00 UTC | 19:05 |
| jeblair | pabelanger: w00t! thanks! | 19:05 |
| hashar | o/ | 19:05 |
| jeblair | #topic Schedule Project Renames | 19:05 |
| pabelanger | jeblair: np | 19:05 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Schedule Project Renames (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:05 | |
| mordred | o/ | 19:06 |
| jeblair | i last wee sept 11 or 12 was tentatively suggested for the pre-summit renames of stuff already in the queue | 19:06 |
| clarkb | those dates still work fo rme so +1 | 19:06 |
| pleia2 | still works for me | 19:06 |
| jeblair | er, you get the idea ^ | 19:06 |
| clarkb | slight preference for friday so I can weekend on the weekend | 19:06 |
| fungi | i'm still good with that, so if there are more people behind the idea now that everyone's back from the ops mid-cycle, let's nail it firmly | 19:07 |
| anteaya | that is the ironic mid-cycle which I won't be attending | 19:07 |
| anteaya | those dates are fine with me | 19:07 |
| jeblair | looks clear from a release mgmt pov | 19:07 |
| jeblair | those dates are good for me, also slight pref for 11th | 19:07 |
| clarkb | ya it should be after the milestone and before freeze crazyness | 19:07 |
| mordred | I can do those days | 19:08 |
| anteaya | oops Im wrong that ironic was in august | 19:08 |
| mordred | no preference | 19:08 |
| anteaya | no mid-cycle on those dates | 19:08 |
| jeblair | lets do 11 then, objections? | 19:08 |
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| jeblair | and time -- 2300? | 19:09 |
| anteaya | fine | 19:09 |
| fungi | wfm | 19:09 |
| clarkb | wfm | 19:09 |
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| pleia2 | wfm | 19:09 |
| anteaya | are we freezing the list to what is currently there? | 19:09 |
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| jeblair | #agreed next project renames on fri, sept 11 at 2300 utc | 19:09 |
| anteaya | or can folks stuff more in, and if they can can we have a cut off date? | 19:09 |
| pleia2 | anteaya: it's still a couple weeks out, I think we can give some time | 19:09 |
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| anteaya | can we have a cut off date? | 19:10 |
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| jeblair | lets do just limit it to big tent projects though | 19:10 |
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| anteaya | I can agree to that | 19:10 |
| jeblair | since this is still manual, it will take some work | 19:10 |
| anteaya | things in goverance/projects.yaml then? | 19:10 |
| jeblair | i don't want to deal with the stackforge flood without automation | 19:10 |
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| jeblair | anteaya: yeah | 19:10 |
| fungi | yep. moving non-official projects from stackforge to openstack namespace should simply happen all at once. there's no urgency for those | 19:11 |
| anteaya | works for me as a definition | 19:11 |
| jeblair | #agreed moving official projects only; stackforge move will happen later (with automation) | 19:11 |
| fungi | (with science!) | 19:11 |
| jeblair | we also need to nail down the stackforge date... | 19:11 |
| jeblair | what did we propose? | 19:12 |
| anteaya | was going to ask you | 19:12 |
| * jeblair digs | 19:12 | |
| clarkb | I don't think we proposed oe for stackforge | 19:12 |
| jeblair | oct 17 or nov 7 | 19:12 |
| anteaya | it was a date in october and one in nov | 19:12 |
| fungi | we proposed two rough timeframes | 19:12 |
| jeblair | is what i put in the email | 19:12 |
| fungi | yeah | 19:12 |
| clarkb | oh right form the email | 19:12 |
| jeblair | no one expressed a pref | 19:12 |
| clarkb | I was thinking last meeting | 19:12 |
| anteaya | nov 7 I will be at pycon.ca | 19:12 |
| anteaya | preference for oct 17 | 19:12 |
| fungi | i'm better with sooner rather than later, since there were no real objections expressed | 19:13 |
| anteaya | though I may be chrismasing | 19:13 |
| clarkb | ya earlier is probably better | 19:13 |
| clarkb | get it done in the quiet before the summit | 19:13 |
| clarkb | then dont hae to worry about it when recovering from summitting | 19:13 |
| pleia2 | I'm traveling pretty much from oct 13th onward (for what feels like forever, since summit) | 19:13 |
| jeblair | sounds good to me | 19:13 |
| jeblair | pleia2: wave to mordred as you fly past each other | 19:14 |
| fungi | that's <2 months though, so we need to create that wiki sign-up page pretty much immediately so that projects can't claim they didn't have enough time to find out and add themselves | 19:14 |
| * mordred plans waving at pleia2 | 19:14 | |
| pleia2 | jeblair: heh, right | 19:14 |
| jeblair | fungi: agreed | 19:14 |
| anteaya | fungi: very much so | 19:14 |
| jeblair | so how about i set up the wiki page and send an announcement about oct 17th? | 19:14 |
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| pleia2 | sounds good | 19:14 |
| anteaya | sounds good to me | 19:14 |
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| fungi | you typed that faster than i could, so all yours! ;) | 19:15 |
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| jeblair | #agreed move stackforge projects to openstack oct 17th | 19:15 |
| anteaya | how much down time will we need for that one do you think? | 19:15 |
| jeblair | #action jeblair send announcement about project renames sept 11 | 19:15 |
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| anteaya | the github changes will take for ever | 19:15 |
| jeblair | #action jeblair send announcement about wiki page and stackforge move | 19:15 |
| jeblair | anteaya: we could probably let the github changes lag behind on that one | 19:15 |
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| anteaya | oh okay | 19:16 |
| jeblair | they will become eventually consistent | 19:16 |
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| anteaya | might want to include that bit in the announcement | 19:16 |
| anteaya | to get infront of the tide hitting the channel | 19:16 |
| fungi | well, if we want the renames/transfers in github to dtrt, then we likely need to make sure we disable replication to there until we finish that part | 19:16 |
| jeblair | anteaya: yes, though perhaps in a later announcement when we know more about the actual mechanics? | 19:16 |
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| anteaya | jeblair: yep, as long as I have something to point to | 19:17 |
| jeblair | fungi: i don't think it'll hurt | 19:17 |
| anteaya | don't care when | 19:17 |
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| jeblair | fungi: some replications will just get rejected if the repos have the wrong names | 19:17 |
| clarkb | fungi: it will just error | 19:17 |
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| jeblair | fungi: but then catch up later, and we can trigger a full run on completion | 19:17 |
| fungi | oh, for some reason i thought manage-projects was going to create the "new" repos there | 19:17 |
| clarkb | fungi: oh hrm it will do that | 19:18 |
| clarkb | so it just dependso nwhether or not we need the github redirects | 19:18 |
| fungi | so just trying to remember to account for that | 19:18 |
| fungi | but not a plan we need to hash out in this meeting | 19:18 |
| anteaya | perhaps a meeting agenda item for automated rename planning? | 19:18 |
| jeblair | yeah, i bet we can work out a way :) | 19:18 |
| mordred | fungi: ++ | 19:18 |
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| jeblair | cool, moving on then | 19:19 |
| jeblair | #topic Priority Efforts (Migration to Zanata) | 19:19 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Priority Efforts (Migration to Zanata) (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:19 | |
| pleia2 | so, we're in a great spot, the translators are planning on using Zanata for Liberty translations :) | 19:19 |
| jeblair | woohoo! | 19:19 |
| mordred | pleia2: w00t! | 19:19 |
| anteaya | yay | 19:19 |
| fungi | i've seen much recent traffic on the i18n ml about this | 19:19 |
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| pleia2 | I have one last review up to fix our installation process: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/192901/ | 19:20 |
| pleia2 | then we should be ready to launch our production server at translate.openstack.org | 19:20 |
| anteaya | yay | 19:20 |
| pleia2 | if we can do that by the end of the week, next week can be spent making sure all our scripts are still working as expected, and do a hand off to the translations folks after labor day | 19:20 |
| clarkb | StevenK also has a handful of changes related to automagically configuring zanata fo rprojects that get translated | 19:20 |
| clarkb | I hvae reviewed the stack would be good if some other cores could get through those | 19:20 |
| * jeblair does happy dance | 19:20 | |
| fungi | pleia2: not being familiar with the db schema complexity in zanata, i was somewhat dubious of the "copy all the tables from the dev server" approach | 19:20 |
| pleia2 | we also need some details from Carlos about importing the user directory out from the -dev instance so they don't need to set all that up again | 19:21 |
| fungi | is that going to be as simple as it was made to sound? | 19:21 |
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| pleia2 | fungi: me too, I kept resisting, they all insist, so I'm leaning on Carlos for a solid plan | 19:21 |
| pleia2 | adding coordinators and users is actually a pain for the users, so I sympathize | 19:21 |
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| pleia2 | unfortunately I have some unexpected travel next week, so I'm going to put all this into an email to openstack-infra so we can make sure we have a plan | 19:22 |
| clarkb | and I am happy to cover for pleia2 again | 19:22 |
| clarkb | as I mostly have a picture of what is going on now | 19:22 |
| pleia2 | and I can check in next week if needed | 19:22 |
| pleia2 | thanks clarkb! | 19:22 |
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| SpamapS | greghaynes: ah, the problem is that dnsmasq is binding to eth2.25 and not eth2 for some reason | 19:23 |
| SpamapS | oh doh | 19:23 |
| SpamapS | hah.. misconfigured, thats why | 19:23 |
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| jeblair | SpamapS: also mis-channeled :) | 19:23 |
| pleia2 | so we've got a little work to do, and only a little bit of time, but I think it's all doable | 19:23 |
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| jeblair | pleia2: cool, zanata reviews to the top of the list then | 19:23 |
| anteaya | pleia2: nice work carrying this all through | 19:23 |
| SpamapS | dohhh soo sory | 19:23 |
| pleia2 | jeblair: thanks | 19:23 |
| jeblair | anteaya: pleia2 ++ | 19:23 |
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| jeblair | #topic Priority Efforts (Downstream Puppet) | 19:24 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Priority Efforts (Downstream Puppet) (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:24 | |
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| jeblair | httpd module proved to have some races, difficult to fix. We propose to move to puppetlabs-apache instead (pabelanger, yolanda) | 19:25 |
| yolanda_ | so that raised these days | 19:25 |
| yolanda_ | when moving to httpd, some races are shown | 19:26 |
| yolanda_ | there have been some efforts to fix it, either on the httpd module or in the manifests using it | 19:26 |
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| clarkb | a couple things here, the races are simple to fix and moving to puppetlabs apache is not simple. I still have a strong preference for sticking with httpd module at least until it is possible to change modules then we can worry aboutswitching | 19:26 |
| yolanda_ | and this also raised the topic about why are we using a pretty old fork, and putting efforts on fixing that | 19:26 |
| nibalizer | we didn't change anything in the module though, so I think these issues existed in the old apache module we were using | 19:26 |
| clarkb | but it really isn't possible to switch yet | 19:26 |
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| clarkb | nibalizer: they did, I think we just tickled a puppet "bug" by changing the name hwich appears to have changed execution order | 19:27 |
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| yolanda_ | clarkb, i agree that we cannot move in short, but have a plan to migrate | 19:27 |
| crinkle | or this was happening before and we didn't notice becaues it's eventually consistent | 19:27 |
| clarkb | crinkle: or that | 19:27 |
| jeblair | hrm... one second | 19:27 |
| nibalizer | so my thinking is we've upped our tetsing game and that has exposed the issue, not the fork | 19:28 |
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| jeblair | clarkb: can you quickly summarize the recent past and current issues here? i'm slightly confused and am losing track of which modules are which and what we're doing :) | 19:28 |
| yolanda_ | yes, i agree it has always failed | 19:28 |
| clarkb | jeblair: yup | 19:28 |
| yolanda_ | it works at second pass | 19:28 |
| jeblair | (i'm hoping this will be beneficial for some other folks here too) | 19:28 |
| fungi | nibalizer: i didn't find it through testing at all. i found it because i needed to deploy a new servert | 19:28 |
| yolanda_ | fungi, i have hit that several times downstream, but just fixed by re-executing puppet | 19:28 |
| anteaya | jeblair: yes thank you | 19:29 |
| clarkb | so the issue is that puppetlabs-apache completely removed the ability to ship in a complete working vhost template file. Instead you have to use a bunch of puppet dsl primitives to construct the vhost. This makes certain things like mod_rewrite extremely difficult to use and we use a lot of mod_rewrite | 19:29 |
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| asselin_ | o/ | 19:29 |
| glauco_ | I noticed this issue while writing acceptance tests for puppet-gerrit | 19:29 |
| clarkb | our solution to this was keep using the old version of the module that lets us use it the way we want to under a new name so we don't conflict with third party modules that do use upstream apache | 19:29 |
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| pabelanger | my preference would be to fix race issue, so not to block people. In parallel start migration to puppet-apache again, while keeping everybody happy. | 19:29 |
| yolanda_ | clarkb, pabelanger had several changes that proved this could be easily solved, either writing a wrapper | 19:29 |
| clarkb | now that we have renamed the module we find that mod installation doesn't happen before starting the apache service by default which leads to puppet apply races | 19:29 |
| yolanda_ | or sending the patch upstream | 19:29 |
| fungi | the basic races we've exposed: if you try to install configuration files into directories created by the apache package, you have to make sure the package is installed before you do that. if you want to activate vhosts which depend on certain default-disabled apache modules, you have to make sure those modules get enabled before the vhost configuration is applied | 19:30 |
| clarkb | you can easily fix this with require/before in your code that uses the apache module | 19:30 |
| clarkb | fungi: right | 19:30 |
| yolanda_ | clarkb, it means fixing all of our manifests | 19:30 |
| jeblair | we used to call our fork puppet-apache, now we call it puppt-httpd, and both of those have that problem (inheritied from the old thing we forked from), yeah? | 19:30 |
| yolanda_ | + adding some documentation about this usage | 19:30 |
| yolanda_ | while we have alternatives that work from scratch | 19:30 |
| clarkb | jeblair: the old puppet-apache wasn't really a fork just an older checkout and yes according ot crinkle and nibalizer the bug likely existed in both places | 19:30 |
| yolanda_ | jeblair, yes | 19:30 |
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| clarkb | we are noticing it more now with testing | 19:31 |
| jeblair | awesome, i think i am caught up, thanks! | 19:31 |
| nibalizer | clarkb: thanks for explaining | 19:31 |
| fungi | however i wasn't seeing this issue prior to the module rename, so suspect that puppet happened to be getting lucky and arbitrarily picking the working order before and is now picking a non-working order | 19:31 |
| jeblair | fungi: oooh | 19:31 |
| yolanda_ | fungi, i saw that downstream when spinning new modules | 19:32 |
| * anteaya is also actually able to follow along | 19:32 | |
| jeblair | we can't fix this in the module | 19:32 |
| jeblair | ? | 19:32 |
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| jeblair | like, have httpd::module have the correct requirements? | 19:32 |
| nibalizer | jeblair: there are a few ways forward | 19:32 |
| jeblair | cool, let's enumerate | 19:32 |
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| nibalizer | but no clearly best option | 19:32 |
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| yolanda_ | jeblair,httpd_mod is a custom puppet type, so it will need some extra work | 19:32 |
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| nibalizer | 1) fix it in the module itself by hacking the type | 19:33 |
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| nibalizer | 2) put require => Service['httpd'] around our puppet code where necessary | 19:33 |
| crinkle | s/require/before | 19:33 |
| fungi | i think the various proposals are: 1. fix it in each module which uses openstackinfra/httpd; 2. fix it in openstackinfra/httpd; 3. get puppetlabs/apache working (perhaps by submitting the support we need for our workflow or perhaps by making a shim/wrapper module) | 19:33 |
| nibalizer | yes sorry | 19:33 |
| nibalizer | 3) Create a httpd::mod defined type that wraps httpd_mod and adds the before | 19:33 |
| yolanda_ | there was a proposal already written by glauco here https://review.openstack.org/216436 | 19:33 |
| nibalizer | 4) Pivot to later puppetlabs-apache module | 19:34 |
| nibalizer | I have some opinions on which ones I like the most, I think others do as well | 19:35 |
| fungi | i guess nibalizer's 1, 2 and 3 are sub-options of my #2 | 19:35 |
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| pabelanger | Can we take working code from puppet-apache, back port into puppet-httpd? | 19:36 |
| nibalizer | fungi: no my #2 is your #1, and my 2 and 3 are sub-options of your #2 | 19:36 |
| jeblair | regarding nib.4 and fungi.3, wasn't there some resistance upstream to the 'dump a vhost' model? | 19:36 |
| yolanda_ | option 1 means hiding a problem on the module, you need to fix all the manifests, and make new manifest using that to work in the same way. I'd expect , when i use a module, that i can rely on the features, without having to know the internals of it | 19:36 |
| pabelanger | this leave simple migration path to puppet-apache, vs us creating our own custom path | 19:36 |
| crinkle | jeblair: I am pretty sure they would accept that patch if it's not already in there | 19:37 |
| jeblair | so does that mean that to use puppetlabs apache, we either try to convince them, or start using the module the way they intend (which may be a great amount of work for us)? | 19:37 |
| jeblair | crinkle: oh ok | 19:37 |
| fungi | anyway, since the numbers are now confusing... the objections to fixing it in each calling module is obviously code duplication. the objections to fixing it in openstackinfra/httpd are mostly that it's throwing good money after bad/reinventing the wheel. the objections to switching to puppetlabs/apache are that we suspect it still doesn't do the things we need | 19:37 |
| crinkle | pabelanger mentioned using custom_fragment which might be what we need | 19:37 |
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| crinkle | fungi: also that switching to puppetlabs/apache will take a while and we want a fix soon | 19:38 |
| nibalizer | I think this is being brought up as a critical flaw, which I disagree with | 19:38 |
| jeblair | i feel like fixing it in openstackinfra/httpd is throwing a small amount of good money after bad, and outweighs the other two. | 19:38 |
| clarkb | crinkle: I looked into that back when I was told "just use custom fragment" and I wasn't happy with it | 19:38 |
| nibalizer | the nature of puppet is needing to establish your before/after | 19:38 |
| yolanda_ | jeblair, fungi, even if we use puppetlabs-apahce the way they like, it shouldn't be complex, creating a wrapper and using some features it offers, pabelanger had a decent sample | 19:38 |
| clarkb | I like treating files as files in puppet | 19:38 |
| clarkb | nibalizer: agreed | 19:38 |
| crinkle | what about custom_fragment => template('my template') | 19:38 |
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| clarkb | crinkle: you can't because then you lose all the header stuff | 19:38 |
| jeblair | clarkb, nibalizer: is that an argument for doing before in our leaf puppet modules? | 19:39 |
| crinkle | clarkb: okay | 19:39 |
| clarkb | crinkle: its very opinionated or was when I looked at it | 19:39 |
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| clarkb | jeblair: yes | 19:39 |
| nibalizer | jeblair: yes | 19:39 |
| fungi | right, we want it to be able to replace the entire vhost config with a template and not make decisions for us | 19:39 |
| nibalizer | most puppet resources don't automagically position themselves in the graph, I'm not sure why we're so suprised this doesn't | 19:39 |
| yolanda_ | here, that's pabelanger sample https://review.openstack.org/#/c/216747/ | 19:39 |
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| pabelanger | Honestly, I still don't fully understand what puppet-httpd provides that puppet-apache doesn't do. I _think_ the custom_fragment is what people are looking for but it would be good to list some place what people actually want. I think some people want a blank vhost.conf file that apache will load out side of puppet control? | 19:39 |
| yolanda_ | uses custom_fragment + template | 19:39 |
| jesusaurus | i think that being explicit and adding befores where they are needed is the puppet way of doing things | 19:39 |
| clarkb | the red in https://review.openstack.org/#/c/216747/2/modules/openstack_project/templates/grafana.vhost.erb is the problem | 19:40 |
| clarkb | yolanda_: ^ | 19:40 |
| crinkle | pabelanger: i think clarkb just explained why custom_fragment is insufficient | 19:40 |
| jeblair | clarkb, nibalizer: in general i agree... i guess it boils down to specifics; if we use mod_rewrite in our vhost, we need to specify that, but i think that if we say we use mod rewrite in puppet, then the httpd puppet module should know to install httpd first. | 19:40 |
| yolanda_ | jeblair ++ | 19:40 |
| mordred | jeblair: ++ | 19:40 |
| clarkb | thats fair | 19:40 |
| fungi | jeblair: well, the problem that arises is that it currently tries to apply the vhost configuration before it has enabled mod_rewrite | 19:41 |
| fungi | so not specifically a race around the httpd service | 19:41 |
| jeblair | fungi: that sounds like a module bug to me; i think all mod enablement should happen before writing vhost config | 19:41 |
| yolanda_ | fungi, jeblair, that is fixed in the puppelabs-apache , adding a notify apache::service, that restarts on each vhost or mod change | 19:41 |
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| jeblair | yolanda_: yeah, it just sounds like a simple fix to our module to clear these errors, so why not do that first? | 19:42 |
| fungi | but we have other unrelated ordering issues too, such as we were previously relying on the apache2 package to create /etc/apache2 and its subdirectories, but didn't require that package or the module before trying to stick files into them | 19:42 |
| nibalizer | jeblair: that doesn't really jive with most of puppet | 19:42 |
| nibalizer | consider that if you would like a user and an ssh key you do have to explicitly set the ordering there | 19:42 |
| yolanda_ | jeblair, that's what glauco tried on his patch, but it's a fix on ruby | 19:42 |
| jeblair | nibalizer: that's unfortunate, because that's how you admin apache | 19:42 |
| yolanda_ | our httpd_mod is a custom puppet type, not a defined type | 19:43 |
| yolanda_ | so people were not trusting it | 19:43 |
| clarkb | yolanda_: right so my suggestion ws use a defined type | 19:43 |
| nibalizer | jeblair: puppet allows you to do this of course, but the idea is to put the ordering in control of the operator, and not auto-figure-it-out | 19:43 |
| fungi | so some of my concern is that we have multiple bugs exposed here, and people are focusing on one or another and each may need to be solved in different ways or even different places | 19:43 |
| yolanda_ | clarkb yes, and that's when conversation raised about putting efforts there, or moving to apache | 19:43 |
| clarkb | I explained why the other implementation is likely buggy but not one seems to understand the puppet internals enough to confirm (which is a good reason not to do it on its own) | 19:43 |
| nibalizer | everywhere in infra, we tend to want puppet to do less, and we'll tell it what to do, so I'm somewhat suprised we want puppet to be clever here | 19:43 |
| pabelanger | fungi: ! | 19:43 |
| crinkle | I'm also pretty sure glauco_'s patch doesn't work, based on the result of the beaker test | 19:43 |
| yolanda_ | we are also hitting some problems on our fork, so we should consider if the effort is needed | 19:44 |
| jeblair | nibalizer: there's never a reason to enable a module _after_ restarting a configuration with a new vhost | 19:44 |
| glauco_ | crinkle: it worked fine with ubuntu trusty. Not sure why it failed for centos. | 19:44 |
| jeblair | nibalizer: that's something that the module should handle for you, because it is a very well understond ordering of operations that has only one correct answer | 19:44 |
| nibalizer | jeblair: sure | 19:45 |
| jeblair | nibalizer: i agree, anytime it is unclear, users should be allowed to express options | 19:45 |
| jeblair | i think we may need to go to the ml on this | 19:45 |
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| nibalizer | there are currently two patches proposed to httpd to enable that functionality | 19:45 |
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| jeblair | nibalizer: can you send a summary email to the list with options, and we can try to further refine? | 19:45 |
| fungi | well, more to the point, configuration (vhosts or otherwise) and enabling modules should be done and any service restarts deferred until that has all completed | 19:45 |
| nibalizer | sure | 19:46 |
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| jeblair | #action nibalizer send summary email of puppet apache issues to infra list | 19:46 |
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| jeblair | (i picked nibalizer since he enumerated the options so well earlier :) | 19:46 |
| anteaya | nibalizer: nice enumeration | 19:46 |
| jeblair | thanks all, hopefully this was a useful start | 19:47 |
| jeblair | #topic Summit space (jeblair) | 19:47 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Summit space (jeblair) (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:47 | |
| anteaya | goodness that time again? | 19:47 |
| jeblair | ttx would like to know like right now what we need in terms of summit space | 19:47 |
| anteaya | already? | 19:47 |
| fungi | all of it | 19:47 |
| anteaya | a table on a deck | 19:47 |
| anteaya | with umbrellas | 19:47 |
| jeblair | i know dhellmann has at least one session he wants to propose | 19:47 |
| anteaya | and baby geese | 19:48 |
| jeblair | and devananda suggested maybe we could share a meetup space and do some cross-pollination with ironic/bifrost since we're infra-cloudy | 19:48 |
| pleia2 | I think our working group times were valuable (particularly for me working with newcomers), so space for that again would be nice | 19:48 |
| jeblair | anyone else have a feeling for what we should request? | 19:48 |
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| jeblair | pleia2: ack | 19:48 |
| fungi | can you summarize the format/options this time around? is it fishbowls and boardrooms again, or something new this time? | 19:48 |
| anteaya | asselin_: do you need a space for openstackci this time? | 19:48 |
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| pleia2 | I'll likely work with translator sessions again, no no needs on the infra side | 19:49 |
| jeblair | * Fishbowl slots (Wed-Thu) | 19:49 |
| jeblair | * Workroom slots (Tue-Thu) | 19:49 |
| jeblair | * Contributors meetup (Fri) | 19:49 |
| nibalizer | a puppety workroom slot would be great | 19:49 |
| jeblair | also | 19:49 |
| jeblair | - We have about twice as many workrooms than we have fishbowls | 19:49 |
| jeblair | - We have less rooms compared to Vancouver | 19:49 |
| jeblair | - Rooms (especially workrooms) are generally smaller | 19:49 |
| jeblair | - We have a lot more teams asking for space, thanks to the Big Tent | 19:49 |
| asselin_ | anteaya, I was hoping to talk about common-ci. Not sure if my official presentation got accepted or not. If not, then yes it would be nice to do that still. | 19:49 |
| jeblair | so that's nice: it sounds like we like workrooms and we're workroom heavy | 19:50 |
| anteaya | can we pencil in a time for asselin_ and friends? | 19:50 |
| jeblair | anteaya: let's just throw out ideas here, and i'll collect them and try to summarize space needs generally | 19:50 |
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| fungi | okay, so workrooms will probably need their topics better scoped this time. we had a lot of random people glom onto our workgroup sessions in vancouver which tended to make them less productive | 19:50 |
| anteaya | very good | 19:50 |
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| jeblair | i think we need to estimate first, then maybe get detailed later | 19:50 |
| clarkb | space to hack on zuulv3 details may be useful | 19:51 |
| anteaya | other than supporting asselin_'s efforts there isn't anything I personally am working on that needs a space | 19:51 |
| pabelanger | likely remote this time, so fat pipe to asterisk server works for me :) | 19:51 |
| jeblair | fungi: yah, and related to what pleia2 said, we may want to try to focus something on newcomers | 19:51 |
| ttx | I liked the "get something done in 40 min" concept | 19:51 |
| ttx | although unsuccessful | 19:51 |
| fungi | ooh, right. infra 101 tarpit/honeypot ;) | 19:51 |
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| jeblair | ttx: we got it done the next week and it is now awesome :) | 19:51 |
| anteaya | ha ha ha | 19:52 |
| anteaya | infra 101 would be great to get reps from each project to make sure they understand how to set up tests | 19:52 |
| anteaya | adn read logs | 19:52 |
| anteaya | at least someone from each project | 19:52 |
| fungi | yeah, irc meeting management in code review was a success, so a great example we can try to match for scoping the next round of ideas | 19:53 |
| jeblair | anteaya: in that case, should probably be a x-project session | 19:53 |
| anteaya | I can get behind that | 19:53 |
| jeblair | okay, let me know if you have other ideas | 19:53 |
| jeblair | #topic Request to use cloud server for developer.rackspace.com rather than Cloud Sites (annegentle) | 19:53 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Request to use cloud server for developer.rackspace.com rather than Cloud Sites (annegentle) (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:53 | |
| anteaya | as long as people leave with something useful | 19:53 |
| jeblair | annegentle: around? | 19:53 |
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| fungi | i assume the idea here is moving the developer.openstack.org site to a vhost on static.openstack.org (or to a separate server completely) | 19:54 |
| fungi | but having the reasons explained would be great | 19:54 |
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| clarkb | I know we wanted to swift host these things and we probably can with with we know about swift now | 19:55 |
| jeblair | clarkb: actually we did not want that | 19:55 |
| clarkb | since we can generate indexes for the entire paths of docs (but we don't for logs and that is the remaining work item there) | 19:55 |
| clarkb | jeblair: oh? | 19:55 |
| fungi | also, there are challenges around the scp publisher plugin... its support for layout is not identical to what you can do with the ftp publisher | 19:55 |
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| jeblair | clarkb: http://specs.openstack.org/openstack-infra/infra-specs/specs/doc-publishing.html is pending completion of swift logs | 19:55 |
| jeblair | clarkb: but we actually can't use swift for serving things. | 19:56 |
| jeblair | fungi: yeah | 19:56 |
| clarkb | jeblair: right apache would proxy like with the logs | 19:56 |
| jeblair | so we _can_ move them, but it's not clear to me that it would be better than ftp at this point | 19:56 |
| clarkb | jeblair: I am saying that we can do that now the work required for docs should be complete | 19:56 |
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| jeblair | clarkb: ok, but that's still not the plan we wrote :) | 19:56 |
| jeblair | clarkb: feel free to amend :) | 19:56 |
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| clarkb | I must be misremembering then will reread | 19:56 |
| fungi | yeah, the current spec is filesystems (maybe afs) | 19:57 |
| jeblair | clarkb: it's complicated, fortunately, at least the spec captures all the reqs | 19:57 |
| fungi | and rsync if memory serves | 19:57 |
| jeblair | fungi: could pivot to afs, but afs isn't in the current plan either; basically rsync. | 19:57 |
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| clarkb | did we change it? I swear it was swift based when it started | 19:57 |
| jeblair | clarkb: it hasn't changed in a while :( | 19:58 |
| fungi | swift is a middle-man | 19:58 |
| jeblair | yep | 19:58 |
| fungi | so while the spec is "docs publishing via swift" it's not serving them from the copies in swift | 19:58 |
| jeblair | annegentle: maybe post to the infra list? we'd love to help but don't know the problem. :) | 19:58 |
| jeblair | #topic Open discussion | 19:58 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:58 | |
| pabelanger | Haha, 1 min | 19:59 |
| pabelanger | going to point my stuff into -infra | 19:59 |
| jeblair | use wisely | 19:59 |
| pleia2 | elections are coming up and I can't commit to help tristanC running them this time around, don't need to have special powers (fungi pulls data for us), just need to pay attention and be responsive about election things, happy to answer questions abut it but it's coming up soon | 19:59 |
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| pleia2 | election schedule is on the release schedule: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Liberty_Release_Schedule | 19:59 |
| SpamapS | o/ just saying infra-cloud is ho-humming along, still fighting hardware issues but getting closer at least. :) | 19:59 |
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| jeblair | SpamapS: woot! | 20:00 |
| jeblair | thanks all! | 20:00 |
| jeblair | #endmeeting | 20:00 |
| fungi | pleia2: maybe a cfh out to the -dev ml is warranted | 20:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 20:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Aug 25 20:00:11 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 20:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2015/infra.2015-08-25-19.00.html | 20:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2015/infra.2015-08-25-19.00.txt | 20:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2015/infra.2015-08-25-19.00.log.html | 20:00 |
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| ttx | Alright... Anyone here for the TC meeting ? | 20:00 |
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| markmcclain | o/ | 20:00 |
| * edleafe lurks as usual | 20:00 | |
| dhellmann | devananda: o/ | 20:00 |
| sdague | o/ | 20:00 |
| dhellmann | er, just o/ | 20:00 |
| dtroyer | o/ | 20:00 |
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| ttx | russellb, jgriffith, annegentle, lifeless, mordred, flaper87, jeblair, jaypipes: around ? | 20:00 |
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| jeblair | o/ | 20:01 |
| russellb | o/ | 20:01 |
| annegentle | o/ | 20:01 |
| * geoffarnold lurking | 20:01 | |
| jaypipes | ...................o/ | 20:01 |
| ttx | #startmeeting tc | 20:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Aug 25 20:01:16 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is ttx. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 20:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 20:01 |
| rhochmuth | o/ | 20:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'tc' | 20:01 |
| cpallares | o/ | 20:01 |
| * Rockyg lurking, too | 20:01 | |
| russellb | jaypipes swimming again | 20:01 |
| jaypipes | russellb: :) | 20:01 |
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| ttx | A pretty busy agenda for today: | 20:01 |
| edleafe | russellb: I see it more as a ball and chain | 20:01 |
| ttx | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/TechnicalCommittee | 20:01 |
| mordred | o/ | 20:01 |
| ttx | #topic Adding Monasca to OpenStack | 20:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Adding Monasca to OpenStack (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:02 | |
| ttx | #link https://review.openstack.org/213183 | 20:02 |
| ttx | I was initially put off by the fact the commit message doesn't mention Java at all, but apparently they are in the middle of a full transition to Python (which I didn't know about) | 20:02 |
| ttx | I'm still a bit uncomfortable with the fact that both codebases (the legacy Java one and the Python one) coexist under the same repository | 20:02 |
| ttx | It feels like they could use separate repositories or branches so that everything in the repository master branch is properly gated | 20:02 |
| ttx | but I can certainly live with that | 20:02 |
| lifeless | ttx: hi, here-ish, we have electricians and all sorts happpening right this second | 20:02 |
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| ttx | My other concern was with terse commit messages referencing a private JIRA (inside HP I suspect) | 20:03 |
| ttx | Deklan answered that "from now on, we will be strictly adhering to the OpenStack Commit message standards" | 20:03 |
| ttx | So I think this is, at the very minimum, going in the right direction | 20:03 |
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| ttx | dhellmann recently raised videoconferencing being used | 20:03 |
| dhellmann | ttx: I had a concern about where the weekly meetings are being held, which I noticed today when re-reading the proposal and looking at their launchpad page | 20:03 |
| dhellmann | heh | 20:03 |
| ttx | which kind of prevents logging | 20:03 |
| mordred | dhellmann: can you summarize? | 20:04 |
| sdague | oh, I guess I missed that one | 20:04 |
| mordred | me too | 20:04 |
| dhellmann | mordred: they're using webex now (vidyo before) | 20:04 |
| rhochmuth | we can switch to IRC, I responded to Doug's questions | 20:04 |
| mordred | oh. | 20:04 |
| mordred | rhochmuth: oh neat! thanks | 20:04 |
| dhellmann | we gave the trove team a hard time over that before | 20:04 |
| annegentle | ttx: I think the Java concerns are a great discussion to have and I tend to agree with sdague's commentary | 20:04 |
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| dhellmann | rhochmuth: yes, I think that would be a requirement for my +1 | 20:04 |
| mordred | we've given several teams a hard time about that - so I do think we need to be fair | 20:04 |
| rhochmuth | ok, consider it done!!! | 20:04 |
| annegentle | And then it's interesting, apparently the video-based chat is preferred over IRC by the team itself | 20:05 |
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| rhochmuth | will switch to IRC immediately | 20:05 |
| ttx | annegentle: I don't. But then Monasca isn't really a problem if they move to Python anyway | 20:05 |
| * mordred does not have a problem with the java | 20:05 | |
| mordred | just for the record | 20:05 |
| annegentle | for the docs team, we have some specialty teams that prefer video and real-time over IRC | 20:05 |
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| annegentle | mordred: me neither honestly | 20:05 |
| clarkb | annegentle: IRC is real time | 20:05 |
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| jeblair | yeah, i think irc is a requirement, and python is not, actually. :) | 20:06 |
| ttx | I'm against fragmentation, for the reason I indicated on the review. That includes gratuitously adding a language or a conference media | 20:06 |
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| mordred | jeblair: ++ | 20:06 |
| sdague | so, I think we should make the java conversation a separate one | 20:06 |
| ttx | I think we should | 20:06 |
| markmcclain | sdague: ++ | 20:06 |
| jeblair | sdague: it at least sounds like it's moot | 20:06 |
| sdague | jeblair: sure | 20:06 |
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| mordred | ++ | 20:06 |
| annegentle | clarkb: yes, but I'd like to continue to request a voice/video meeting capability that is acceptable | 20:06 |
| jeblair | this is a real transition, right? moving from java to python and discontinuing java? | 20:06 |
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| annegentle | jeblair: how would we know? :) | 20:07 |
| ttx | jeblair: yes | 20:07 |
| jeblair | i ask because the whole "two languages one repo" thing makes it seem like a grey area? | 20:07 |
| * maishsk is lurking in the background | 20:07 | |
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| russellb | annegentle: we've had a voice one for a long time. video is more difficult. | 20:07 |
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| annegentle | russellb: ok, cool | 20:08 |
| mordred | rhochmuth: can you speak to jeblair's question above? | 20:08 |
| ttx | Just as a sidenote, I'm extremely concerned about common culture and the fact that openstack doesn't mean anything anymore. I think that's the biggest risk our community faces over the coming two years. So I'll oppose convenience choices that fragment our community even further. | 20:08 |
| rhochmuth | yes, the transition is real! | 20:08 |
| anteaya | ttx: ++ | 20:08 |
| * jaypipes primarily concerned about the huge overlap between Monasca's REST API and the OpenStack Telemetry API (as currently implemented by Ceilometer) | 20:09 | |
| annegentle | ttx: thanks for stating that. I have real concerns about "can it be debugged, documented, and quality tested in similar ways" | 20:09 |
| jeblair | rhochmuth: oh, yes i see your comment from 08-18 | 20:09 |
| rhochmuth | not sure what else to say, everyone in the community wants to do this | 20:09 |
| rhochmuth | in the monasca community that is | 20:09 |
| dhellmann | jaypipes: that's what we get when we invite competition, no? | 20:09 |
| jaypipes | dhellmann: no. | 20:09 |
| ttx | but Monasca seems to at least aim at not creating problems | 20:09 |
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| jeblair | rhochmuth: have a timeline for full java deprecation? | 20:09 |
| mordred | jaypipes: doesn't monasca also integrate with ceilometer? | 20:09 |
| jeblair | (mostly just out of curiosity) | 20:09 |
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| sdague | jaypipes: well, I thought that was one of the areas we specifically were requesting competition, correct? | 20:09 |
| mordred | (at least as I understand it?) | 20:09 |
| mordred | or at least optionally integrate | 20:09 |
| rhochmuth | i don't have an exact date. We talked about doing this. | 20:10 |
| ttx | My main concern is that we have to take a number of promises at face value (no more JIRA references, no more videoconferencing, no more Java). So the question ebcomes, is it ready to be approved now, or should we wait for more progress | 20:10 |
| jaypipes | dhellmann: I have always consistently said we should not have a competition for APIs. We should have competition for differing implementations of a single OpenStack API for XXXX | 20:10 |
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| anteaya | we don't have great follow up for promises not kept | 20:10 |
| dhellmann | jaypipes: that would require the competing teams to agree on the api, though | 20:10 |
| sdague | jaypipes: so, that seems very overly idealistic. The API isn't devoid of the implementation. And the API drives the implementation | 20:10 |
| jaypipes | dhellmann: yes, precisely. | 20:10 |
| dhellmann | ttx: I would be comfortable waiting a bit, I'm not sure there's a hurry | 20:10 |
| mordred | jaypipes: I do not believe we have a mechanism for specifying an API outside of an implementation | 20:11 |
| jaypipes | sdague: hugely disagree on that. | 20:11 |
| ttx | dhellmann: there is a hurry if Monasca wants design summit space. | 20:11 |
| mordred | jaypipes: and I believe we've always avoided being an API standards body | 20:11 |
| annegentle | sdague: I think you're getting at the "docs, tests, builds, debugging" layer with the "A working OpenStack is not just the python glue layer, it's the whole thing." | 20:11 |
| mordred | jaypipes: and the only way that two different projects can implement the same API is if we had an API definition that lived apart from the implementation | 20:11 |
| mordred | which we have literally nowhere | 20:11 |
| jaypipes | mordred: we should not have 2 OpenStack Telemetry APIs. | 20:11 |
| ttx | there is no way unofficial projects will get space in Tokyo. We are strugfgling with what we have already | 20:11 |
| SpamapS | If you don't push toward agreeing API's, you end up with the Neutron effect: "This is the BEST way" without a path from the other way and users forked. | 20:11 |
| sdague | also, who decides that | 20:11 |
| jgriffith | jaypipes: I have to say I agree with others that while awesome that doesn't seem very realistic. | 20:11 |
| markmcclain | ttx: can we wait and grant design summit space? | 20:11 |
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| dhellmann | ttx: I'm not inclined to hurry for that reason. | 20:11 |
| annegentle | ttx: is there no "related projects" spaces this time around? | 20:11 |
| mordred | jaypipes: I do not think that monasca is a telemetry api | 20:11 |
| mordred | jaypipes: I believe it is a monitoring API | 20:12 |
| ddieterly | i think we can take the JIRA references problem off the table. i was responsible for that mistake and was severely castigated for it by Roland. | 20:12 |
| ttx | annegentle: it's Japan. There is no space | 20:12 |
| ttx | only people | 20:12 |
| jaypipes | mordred: https://github.com/stackforge/monasca-api/blob/master/docs/monasca-api-spec.md would say otherwise. | 20:12 |
| annegentle | ttx: with white gloves on to push you into train cars though! :) | 20:12 |
| mordred | ttx: :) | 20:12 |
| maishsk | ttx: :) | 20:12 |
| anteaya | ttx: ha ha ha | 20:12 |
| jeblair | annegentle: omg are they going to be at the summit rooms?! | 20:12 |
| markmcclain | haha | 20:12 |
| ttx | in every workroom, yes | 20:12 |
| sdague | because I think one of the issues we had in the whole telemetry space is we tried to make a bunch of different teams work together that weren't really aligned, and that didn't work out so well | 20:12 |
| gordc | mordred: as ceilometer dev, we're actually not sure about what level of integration exists... we're sort of in the dark on how ceilo/monasca integrates... there has been mentions about it for a while but we've never been asked. | 20:13 |
| dhellmann | sdague: ++ | 20:13 |
| gordc | we did speak about joint summit sessions at last meeting though. | 20:13 |
| sdague | so I feel like saying "no, you all have to agree on API" puts us right back into a non working place | 20:13 |
| mordred | jaypipes: k. but is the api short-name/id in keystone "telemetry" ? | 20:13 |
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| jaypipes | mordred: not sure :) | 20:13 |
| mordred | if it is - I will be much more inclined to agree with you :) | 20:14 |
| annegentle | gordc: great input, thanks | 20:14 |
| dhellmann | sdague: right, I would expect part of a different implementation to include API changes | 20:14 |
| sdague | dhellmann: yeh, exactly | 20:14 |
| edleafe | jaypipes: agree that a single API is ideal, but there is no body capable of declaring one | 20:14 |
| edleafe | jaypipes: you'll then need everyone to agree on their own | 20:14 |
| sdague | especially because this an area where it's not a solved space, and there is still a bunch of exploration going on | 20:14 |
| dhellmann | right | 20:15 |
| jaypipes | edleafe: if we don't push competing implementations to agree on an API, we will end up with mass confusion and not serve our users, IMHO. | 20:15 |
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| edleafe | jaypipes: if a product differs from existing APIs without providing at least as much new benefit, it will die on its own | 20:15 |
| sdague | see the various internal rewrites of key things in ceilometer to explore more efficient ways of handling this, which is all good, but I can't even imagine the drag placed on that if they also needed to coordinate with other metrics teams on shared API | 20:15 |
| ttx | yeah, not sure we can require convergent APIs for differ ent projects addressing kind of the same space | 20:16 |
| jgriffith | edleafe: that may be wishful thinking, different folks will have their reasons for aligning with one over another | 20:16 |
| sdague | jaypipes: we did that before in this space, and we ended up with deadlock and a software stack that didn't serve our users well. I think all the software stacks in this space, ceilometer included, got much better once the TC let them all try their own things. | 20:16 |
| dhellmann | rhochmuth: what's the story with backend databases these days? there is an open source database available, right? | 20:16 |
| ttx | so the options are approve it now or delay it to give them a chance to further align to openstack way first | 20:17 |
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| sdague | ttx: what's the deadline for space at the summit? | 20:17 |
| rhochmuth | correct. influxdb is supported and we are in the process of adding cassandra | 20:17 |
| dhellmann | rhochmuth: ok, great, thanks | 20:17 |
| jaypipes | on another unrelated note, I do have some concern that Monasca is a monolithic things trying to do too much (monitoring, metric storage, alarming, events), which is the same problem domain that Ceilometer finds itself in, no? | 20:17 |
| * dhellmann can never remember the name of influxdb | 20:17 | |
| annegentle | I'd still like to understand if we believe a Java or Go or Erlang project can be documented and tested with self-service adequately? | 20:17 |
| ttx | sdague: a couple more weeks | 20:17 |
| edleafe | if there ever is a definition of a telemetry API that we can point to, then sure, let's enforce it. | 20:17 |
| jeblair | i think i'm generally comfortable with the promises made and could +1 now. | 20:18 |
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| sdague | ttx: personally, I'd like to revisit as late as we can. I'm happy to delay a couple of weeks and have the team prove they are implementing the new changes. | 20:18 |
| jeblair | annegentle: i think we want to kick that can down the road since we don't have to deal with it for this one. :) | 20:18 |
| dhellmann | sdague: ++ | 20:18 |
| sdague | I'm ok going now as well | 20:18 |
| annegentle | For example, I believe the REST API docs can be standardized without concern for language. However RST/Sphinx docs are pretty Python-specific, do we then also enable Java-based doc tools? | 20:18 |
| ttx | sdague: we can certainly wait two weeks | 20:18 |
| annegentle | jeblair: waahh :) | 20:18 |
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| ttx | sdague: I can poll them on their needs should they be accepted and factor it | 20:19 |
| sdague | ttx: ok, so how about we do that. Table for two weeks | 20:19 |
| edleafe | :qa | 20:19 |
| edleafe | doh! | 20:19 |
| annegentle | heh | 20:19 |
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| gordc | jaypipes: specifically re: ceilometer, yes, a lot (too much) is covered. we started branching out projects this cycle (see: alarming split) also to make collaboration easier. | 20:19 |
| ttx | sdague: works for me | 20:19 |
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| ttx | we don't have the required votes in anyway | 20:19 |
| dhellmann | rhochmuth: you should go ahead and add the team meeting to eavesdrop.openstack.org | 20:19 |
| sdague | rhochmuth: and you have specific feedback of what process changes are expected during that time | 20:20 |
| rhochmuth | ok, will do | 20:20 |
| ttx | #agreed Table Monasca for two weeks so that they can further align with the OpenStack way | 20:20 |
| jaypipes | gordc: yeah, precisely my point that ceilometer reached some self-awareness that it was tackling too much. has monasca reached a similar awareness is my question :) | 20:20 |
| ttx | Also if you have different objections (liek jaypipes has) it's more than time to file them on the review | 20:20 |
| jaypipes | ttx: yes, I will do so. | 20:21 |
| annegentle | got it | 20:21 |
| ttx | #topic Moving the RefStack project from openstack-infra to Big Tent. | 20:21 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Moving the RefStack project from openstack-infra to Big Tent. (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:21 | |
| ttx | #link https://review.openstack.org/213930 | 20:21 |
| ttx | So... refstack was recently added to the infra project (with https://review.openstack.org/#/c/205609/) | 20:21 |
| jeblair | yay! | 20:21 |
| ttx | On that review I questioned why that would not be an Interoperability project team instead, but people were apparently happy with it being under Infra | 20:21 |
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| ttx | Now they changed their minds and prefer a project team instead, the rationale for the change of mind is not perfectly clear to me | 20:22 |
| ttx | kind of a good thing that the repo wasn't renamed to openstack-infra/refstack yet :) | 20:22 |
| Rockyg | Uh, I think someone told them they should move? | 20:22 |
| ttx | I'm generally fine with it -- My only concern with a "RefStack" project team is that it's very narrow (I would prefer an "Interoperability" team with the wider scope of providing tooling for interoperability efforts) | 20:22 |
| ttx | Rockyg: "someone" ? | 20:22 |
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| mordred | so ... I have two competing thoughts in my brain on this one | 20:22 |
| dhellmann | does this group of people want to take on the broader mission? | 20:22 |
| jeblair | yep, and in fact, i think i also suggested that while i'd be happy either way, i also thought that ideally, it should be its own official openstack project. :) | 20:22 |
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| jeblair | but they weren't ready for that. | 20:22 |
| ttx | (But then if this team is solely focused on the Interoperability Test Report I guess that works) | 20:23 |
| Rockyg | Yeah. Didn't get the name. Might have been ttx's comment that triggered the whole thing? | 20:23 |
| ttx | heh | 20:23 |
| ttx | late-action trigger | 20:23 |
| mordred | which is that I'm ultimately fine either way - but I think there is both the tool and a long-lived service to collect the data | 20:23 |
| jeblair | i also am not entirely clear on where the change of heart originated | 20:23 |
| Rockyg | So, I think there is desire for the interop, but they are focused first on just getting the defcore stuff solid | 20:23 |
| ttx | OK anyway... the question is now whether the team is specific to refstack-the-tool or to interoperability-tools in general | 20:24 |
| mordred | and if infra is going to run the long-lived tool, I'd love for the engineering of that data collection tool to at least be somewhat done in collaboration with infra | 20:24 |
| russellb | can always rename, update scope, or whatever if it makes sense later | 20:24 |
| Rockyg | I suggested that they can do POC on defcore and sit with that until they are ready to expand to more interop | 20:24 |
| mordred | that does not mean it needs to be in the infra project | 20:24 |
| jeblair | and also, for the record, if the foundation staff comes to consensus on something like this, maybe we could start talking to related ptls earlier rather than later? | 20:24 |
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| jeblair | cause i mean, i learned about this yesterday | 20:24 |
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| jeblair | at any rate, i talked to catherine yesterday | 20:25 |
| hogepodge | ttx there was desire for better tooling for testing at ops mid-cycle | 20:25 |
| hogepodge | ttx there are plans to move it beyond defore. Allowing non-defcore schema for interop for example. | 20:25 |
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| Rockyg | I think the thing confusing placement is the data storage requirement | 20:25 |
| Rockyg | The data is foundation data for defcore, but the rest..... | 20:25 |
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| ttx | hogepodge: so you think it majkes more sense as "Refstack" team or as "Interop" team ? | 20:26 |
| jeblair | the operation of refstack.o.o falls squarely within infra's mission statement, and we will be happy to continue to manage the operation of the service and the deployment tools. even the data management policies. | 20:26 |
| jeblair | and catherine agrees with that. | 20:26 |
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| Rockyg | So, as other projects, Refstack is the project name, interop is the function/area | 20:26 |
| sdague | right, so shouldn't it then be an interop project, with an interop PTL | 20:27 |
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| jeblair | catherine's concern with 'interop' is that she doesn't want to barge in on defcore's area | 20:27 |
| hogepodge | ttx: right now it's just the refstack tool. I could see it expanding, especially if there's buy in from other contributors | 20:27 |
| sdague | and refstack is just a piece of that | 20:27 |
| ttx | Rockyg: ok, I guess we can always expand it | 20:27 |
| ttx | if needed | 20:27 |
| jeblair | she sees defcore as owning "interop" and refstack as interpreting and executing on that. | 20:27 |
| sdague | jeblair: ok, I guess I'm confused, I thought refstack was tooling to prove defcore | 20:27 |
| jeblair | i agree with here there. | 20:27 |
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| jeblair | sdague: ^ that help? | 20:27 |
| hogepodge | defcore is a board committee with a narrow focus: the guideline for what an interop openstack deployment is, as defined by tests and code | 20:27 |
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| sdague | jeblair: sure, I don't understand how that makes it different than QA and Tempest | 20:28 |
| ttx | looks like it's refstack only for the time being, so I +1ed it | 20:28 |
| sdague | for a while we only had one tool, now we have more than one, but the mission was still the abstract one | 20:28 |
| hogepodge | sdague: it's been adopted as the tool to collect defcore results, but we would be doing ourself a disservice if it was only for that. | 20:28 |
| jeblair | sdague: lack of bod involvement? :) | 20:28 |
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| ttx | Still missing quite a few votes | 20:28 |
| sdague | hogepodge: so is it a QA tool then? | 20:29 |
| Rockyg | I'd like to get Catherine's take on this whole thing. Can we table until next week and get Catherine here? | 20:29 |
| hogepodge | part of this came up to as a delayed reponse to -1 infra votes on making it an infra project, so we're exploring the possibilities here | 20:29 |
| mordred | sdague: no, I thnk it isn't | 20:29 |
| mordred | sdague: I think refstack has a different audience - tempest is a tool for developers | 20:29 |
| jeblair | i think refstack is part of openstack | 20:29 |
| hogepodge | sdague: it's built on QA, and we've worked closely with them | 20:29 |
| mordred | refstack is a tool to vet deployments against an interop definition | 20:30 |
| sdague | mordred: sure | 20:30 |
| jeblair | which is why i think it being its own openstack project/program is a good thing | 20:30 |
| mordred | jeblair: ++ | 20:30 |
| sdague | I guess I see 3 things: Infra, Interop, QA | 20:30 |
| sdague | and the current conversation is that refstack is a 4th thing | 20:30 |
| sdague | which, I guess if we need it to be so, that's fine | 20:30 |
| ttx | refstack is a specific tool and the refstack team has a narrow mission. I'm fine with that | 20:30 |
| mordred | I think refstack is the technical arm of interop | 20:30 |
| jeblair | mordred: ya | 20:31 |
| sdague | so, then it would be the Interop program | 20:31 |
| sdague | right? | 20:31 |
| mordred | yah | 20:31 |
| hogepodge | refstack is looking at adding support for out of tree tests, and reporting on them | 20:31 |
| mordred | I think that's what they're saying | 20:31 |
| mordred | with a code name of "refstack" | 20:31 |
| Rockyg | So, interop program, but refstack project | 20:31 |
| Rockyg | mordred, ++ | 20:31 |
| jeblair | interop is more than tech | 20:31 |
| jeblair | in a way unlike qa | 20:31 |
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| ttx | (sidenote: we don't have programs anymore) | 20:32 |
| dhellmann | sdague: I agree, but I'm also ok with not pushing the point on team scope right now if this set of people isn't looking beyond refstack itself at other interop tools | 20:32 |
| jeblair | there's policy/trademarks/political things involved | 20:32 |
| ttx | (we have project teams and deliverables) | 20:32 |
| hogepodge | it would be nice to pull in efforts from the tailgage team to be part of interop effort, since they have similar interests | 20:32 |
| ttx | I'm fine with it starting as Refstack and expanding if need be to "Interop tools" | 20:32 |
| dhellmann | hogepodge: if those teams want to work together, it would be good to set that up early | 20:32 |
| jeblair | dhellmann: i can definitely speak for catherine that she wants to focus purely on driving refstack to implement the technical goals of interoperability set by defocer | 20:32 |
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| mordred | s/defocer/defcore/ | 20:33 |
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| ttx | I prefer defocer | 20:33 |
| annegentle | is that French?:) | 20:33 |
| mordred | ttx: ++ | 20:33 |
| sdague | ok, I guess lets just do the narrow thing and move on then :) | 20:33 |
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| * Rockyg kinda likes defocer | 20:33 | |
| dhellmann | jeblair: it seems wise to limit scope for the team mission, then, if that's what they're actually focused on | 20:33 |
| jeblair | hogepodge: tailgge didn't come up in my convo with catherine | 20:33 |
| ttx | sdague: yes | 20:33 |
| jeblair | but like i said, i'm late to this :) | 20:33 |
| ttx | dhellmann: yes | 20:33 |
| hogepodge | jeblair: I've been working more with them. Catherine is very much focused on Refstack server/client as a toolchain. | 20:34 |
| ttx | They signed up to do refstack at this point. Not all interop tools or other interop tools | 20:34 |
| sdague | tailgate is a whole other can of worms... | 20:34 |
| dhellmann | none of this is set in stone | 20:34 |
| ttx | so the team should be refstack. | 20:34 |
| ttx | for the time being | 20:34 |
| sdague | ttx++ | 20:34 |
| annegentle | seems like it | 20:34 |
| ttx | so please pile up approvals :) | 20:34 |
| ttx | one more | 20:34 |
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| ttx | ok, let's get back to this later and see | 20:35 |
| ttx | #topic Temporarily add I18n ATCs | 20:35 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Temporarily add I18n ATCs (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:35 | |
| ttx | #link https://review.openstack.org/213989 | 20:35 |
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| ttx | We still require the TC to vote on extra-ATCs, and this one was short of a couple votes | 20:35 |
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| ttx | I like that the translations team came up with a reasonable way to measure "contribution" there | 20:36 |
| ttx | That will be useful when we run elections for the I18N PTL | 20:36 |
| jeblair | ++ | 20:36 |
| ttx | ok, enough votes now, approvinug unless someone screams now | 20:36 |
| ttx | approved | 20:36 |
| ttx | #topic Add constraints details to project testing interface | 20:37 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Add constraints details to project testing interface (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:37 | |
| ttx | #link https://review.openstack.org/215399 | 20:37 |
| ttx | This is a change to the project testing interface, introducing constrained unit tests | 20:37 |
| ttx | Sounds like a good incremental change to me. Comments ? Objections ? | 20:37 |
| dhellmann | it's not entirely clear to me why we wouldn't want this to be the default, but i guess that's ok | 20:37 |
| sdague | seems fine, I guess I wonder if there is a reason this isn't the default behavior | 20:37 |
| dhellmann | haha | 20:37 |
| ttx | (has enough votes to pass, so I'll approve unless someone screams now | 20:37 |
| jeblair | i was wondering whether this should eventually be required? | 20:38 |
| ttx | dhellmann: that's why I said "good incremental change", was thinking the same | 20:38 |
| jeblair | it looks like it's all optional now | 20:38 |
| dhellmann | yeah | 20:38 |
| jeblair | i may be saying similar things | 20:38 |
| jeblair | as dhellmann, sdague, and ttx :) | 20:38 |
| ttx | oh, had a question. maybe it shouold be made mandatory ? | 20:38 |
| dhellmann | jeblair: if it's optional, and a team doesn't do it, the only jobs broken will be theirs, afact | 20:38 |
| fungi | lifeless: ^? (if electricians are leaving you alone for a moment) | 20:38 |
| dhellmann | afaict | 20:38 |
| fungi | i get the impression we would want this to become the default in time | 20:38 |
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| jeblair | fungi: that wfm | 20:39 |
| dhellmann | I suppose technically if we make it the required default now, no projects would be in compliance. | 20:39 |
| ttx | anyway, that doesn't make the change less valid. Can always switch to mandatory in a subsequent patch | 20:39 |
| ttx | so I'll approve now | 20:39 |
| jeblair | yup, just would like to know the future | 20:39 |
| dhellmann | ++ | 20:39 |
| Rockyg | make it mandatory for Mitaka | 20:39 |
| ttx | I think the future is in "mandatory" | 20:39 |
| ttx | ok approved | 20:40 |
| ttx | #topic Add election repository to tc-repos | 20:40 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Add election repository to tc-repos (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:40 | |
| ttx | #link https://review.openstack.org/213806 | 20:40 |
| ttx | That's a TC-owned repo so we need to vote on its addition, but that should be afst | 20:40 |
| ttx | or fast | 20:40 |
| ttx | It will be used to contain election data. Not sure if anyone has questions | 20:40 |
| ttx | A couple more +2s wouldn't hurt there | 20:40 |
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| * dhellmann votes again | 20:40 | |
| lifeless | fungi: long term maybe, bu tneed to ramp up adoption first. -> back to electricians | 20:41 |
| ttx | ok, we ahve enough, will approve now unless someone screams | 20:41 |
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| ttx | approved | 20:41 |
| fungi | lifeless: thanks, that's what it seems like we all ended up assuming anyway | 20:41 |
| ttx | #topic Introduce assert:follows-standard-deprecation tag | 20:41 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Introduce assert:follows-standard-deprecation tag (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:41 | |
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| ttx | #link https://review.openstack.org/207467 | 20:41 |
| ttx | Like we decided last week, I removed the "never deprecate anything" assertion from the proposal | 20:42 |
| ttx | and merged Zane's config option deprecation assertion into this 'I follow standard deprecation rules' single tag | 20:42 |
| annegentle | ttx: good good | 20:42 |
| ttx | I'm happy answering questions you may have, otherwise please add approvals to the review so we can move on | 20:42 |
| ttx | I'll approve if it ever passes 7 yes | 20:42 |
| ttx | cpallares: around? | 20:42 |
| cpallares | yes | 20:42 |
| ttx | #topic Present CoC rework (cpallares) | 20:43 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Present CoC rework (cpallares) (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:43 | |
| cpallares | hello all o/ | 20:43 |
| cpallares | I'm here to ask for direction and help in expanding OpenStack's community code of conduct. We are hoping to expand it as part of the diversity work group, as we are trying to make the OpenStack community more welcoming towards people of all races, genders, cultures, religions, ages, etc. | 20:43 |
| ttx | flaper87 added you on the agenda last week so that you can present the CoC work | 20:43 |
| annegentle | welcome cpallares | 20:43 |
| cpallares | ttx: thanks! | 20:43 |
| cpallares | Our current code of conduct https://www.openstack.org/legal/community-code-of-conduct/ | 20:43 |
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| cpallares | So our current code of conduct is missing a couple of things. Ideally a code of conduct should have a place to easily report violations, because that's the only way to enforce it, otherwise it's like it doesn't exist. It should have either an email or a form to report violations. | 20:44 |
| cpallares | We need to create some sort of committee who is dedicated to handling incidents, because our current code of conduct states that violators will be accountable to the board of directors. I'm not sure if there's ever been reported violations to the code of conduct, but I doubt the board of directors spend a lot of time discussing or reprimanding small violations within the OpenStack community. | 20:44 |
| jeblair | cpallares: good point; i think we have previously reported violations to the foundation community folks | 20:44 |
| cpallares | jeblair: Oh awesome, that's good to hear. | 20:44 |
| annegentle | So my original feedback to an earlier CoC is that I would rather report to a person than a form. | 20:44 |
| mordred | cpallares: good. I was just about to say "a method of ajudication" is also important | 20:44 |
| cpallares | annegentle: That would be better. | 20:45 |
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| annegentle | I would want to know who exactly knows what I am telling them. | 20:45 |
| sdague | annegentle: I think that's a very good point | 20:45 |
| cpallares | annegentle: That's the other thing | 20:45 |
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| cpallares | It should have a defined and documented complaint handling process, so each violation case is handled the same way and there is transparency on how reporting a violation works. Of course, all reports would be kept confidential. | 20:45 |
| fungi | yes, being able to report issues in confidence is important | 20:45 |
| cpallares | The code of conduct should also include how reprimands will work and who will decide them (this is where the code of conduct committee would come in). And reprimands be things like warnings, a request for a public or private apology, a public statement about an incident, etc. | 20:45 |
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| ttx | jeblair: worth noting that we don't have a single "community manager" anymore so clarifying wouldn't hurt | 20:45 |
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| annegentle | The Summit code of conduct has procedures | 20:45 |
| jeblair | ttx: yep. | 20:45 |
| annegentle | #link https://www.openstack.org/summit/tokyo-2015/code-of-conduct | 20:45 |
| mordred | cpallares: ++ | 20:45 |
| edleafe | cpallares: yes | 20:46 |
| mordred | cpallares: I like all of the things you are saying - they addreess my concerns with most of the CoCs out there | 20:46 |
| ttx | cpallares: it's not completely crazy to have a small committee with folks from foundation staff, nominees from the TC and from the board to act as a first line | 20:46 |
| annegentle | cpallares: so you're asking about the generic one? | 20:46 |
| cpallares | annegentle: The thing is that that one only applies to the summit. | 20:46 |
| annegentle | cpallares: got it | 20:46 |
| annegentle | cpallares: I completely agree we need one for all contexts. | 20:46 |
| cpallares | annegentle: I think there's another one for the openstack blog. | 20:46 |
| cpallares | I think it should have it's own dedicated space or page within OpenStack. Someplace where it can be updated, easily found, and available for people to easily link for reference. | 20:47 |
| ttx | cpallares: would there be a single CoC for events & general community conduct ? | 20:47 |
| anteaya | I reported a CoC concern to jbryce | 20:47 |
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| ttx | yeah, the Foundatiojn secretary is the person ultimately named in the bylaws | 20:47 |
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| cpallares | ttx: I'd like to examine and expand all of them, but right now I'm focusing on our online community. | 20:47 |
| fungi | being able to combine/replace those would be great, though it may not be feasible if the users of different services/sites/events are accountable to different groups | 20:47 |
| cpallares | Things that would apply to IRC, mailing list, meetings, etc. | 20:48 |
| ttx | so at the very least the secretary should be part of whatever first-line committee you would suggest | 20:48 |
| cpallares | fungi: ++ | 20:48 |
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| cpallares | I've been looking at different Code of Conducts from different communities and I've found Django's code of conduct ( https://www.djangoproject.com/conduct/ ) to be the most documented and well thought-out and it's licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution license so we could fork it and modify it. It includes a clear reporting guide, a clear and documented process for dealing with violators, an | 20:48 |
| cpallares | enforcement manual, it has frequently asked questions and a change log. | 20:48 |
| cpallares | All those things would be a good place to start. | 20:48 |
| cpallares | We are having trouble finding a way to make this happen, since we are not sure where the code of conduct operates within OpenStack and we're not sure who would review the violations or how to create this committee. | 20:48 |
| * mordred adds to reading list | 20:49 | |
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| ttx | (asynchronously approved the refstack project team) | 20:49 |
| annegentle | cpallares: and the "ombudsman" group from the board didn't pan out? mordred or markmcclain do you know? | 20:49 |
| jeblair | would it be a bylaws change? | 20:49 |
| mordred | annegentle: that's a different group/purpose | 20:49 |
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| mordred | annegentle: although I'm not sure it did pan out - but that was a group to ensure that the board was operating in a manner consistent with how the board had declared it would operate | 20:50 |
| ttx | appendix 6, probably yes | 20:50 |
| ttx | heh, we have a code of conduct and a community code of conduct | 20:50 |
| mordred | oh good | 20:50 |
| annegentle | mordred: ok | 20:50 |
| mordred | it's good when we keep things clear | 20:50 |
| ttx | https://www.openstack.org/legal/code-of-conduct/ and https://www.openstack.org/legal/community-code-of-conduct/ | 20:50 |
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| ttx | mordred: one is for board members, you should have read it | 20:51 |
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| cpallares | I think one is specific for people within the foundation? | 20:51 |
| ttx | cpallares: clarity and convergence are definitely needed in that dark area, and you seem to have the issue under control. Anything you need from this group ? | 20:51 |
| cpallares | And says things like "don't take bribes" | 20:51 |
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| jeblair | yeah i think the community coc is what we're primarily concerned with | 20:51 |
| cpallares | ttx: I'm looking for guidance. | 20:52 |
| annegentle | and ensuring it's applied beyond just events | 20:52 |
| mordred | cpallares: I like the Django CoC - it's clear and communicative | 20:52 |
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| mordred | cpallares: I think we/you need to make a recommendation to the board to form the ajudication body you are talking about | 20:52 |
| ttx | cpallares: we can take the homework of reading the Django CoC and get back to you with comments ? | 20:53 |
| mordred | cpallares: since it's a power that lays with the foundatoin and therefore with teh BoD | 20:53 |
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| annegentle | cpallares: because the events one has guidance that's difficult to enact online? | 20:53 |
| jeblair | i do think there are aspects of our current coc not covered by the django coc | 20:53 |
| cpallares | ttx: Sounds good. | 20:53 |
| jeblair | i would hate to lose those | 20:53 |
| mordred | cpallares: however, I think we'd all love to be actively involved | 20:53 |
| mordred | jeblair: ++ | 20:53 |
| cpallares | ttx: So what could be the next steps to make this happen? | 20:53 |
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| ttx | how about you come back next week and we'll all have read the CoC and communicate comments | 20:54 |
| cpallares | ttx: Sounds good. | 20:54 |
| ttx | #action TC members to read the Django CoC https://www.djangoproject.com/conduct/ and prepare comments for next meeting | 20:54 |
| annegentle | thanks cpallares for giving us good reading material and an action | 20:54 |
| ttx | cpallares: yes, many thanks ! | 20:55 |
| ttx | #topic Workgroup reports | 20:55 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Workgroup reports (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:55 | |
| ttx | Small update from the project team guide, lost in the zuul post queue is the first run of the projectteam guide publication job | 20:55 |
| jeblair | oh neat | 20:56 |
| jeblair | i can kick that manually if needed | 20:56 |
| ttx | I submitted a dumb change to test it | 20:56 |
| jeblair | or that | 20:56 |
| annegentle | ha no way | 20:56 |
| ttx | it's just llst in the gigantic post queue | 20:56 |
| ttx | lost | 20:56 |
| ttx | annegentle: it was not totally dumb | 20:56 |
| jeblair | need moar clouds | 20:56 |
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| ttx | jeblair: working on it | 20:57 |
| jeblair | woo | 20:57 |
| annegentle | zuul gated us | 20:57 |
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| ttx | Any other workgroup with an update ? | 20:57 |
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| ttx | next-tags WG: Please vote on https://review.openstack.org/#/c/207467/ or ask questions if you still have some | 20:58 |
| annegentle | none from comms other than "do we need a blog post this week?" | 20:58 |
| annegentle | once we get the new project team guide posted we can add to the highlights blog | 20:58 |
| ttx | Not much to report on, apart from refstack move | 20:58 |
| annegentle | other topics? | 20:59 |
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| annegentle | refstack move is good | 20:59 |
| sdague | ttx: I left some concerns on that about what counts as "feature". I was not here for last weeks meeting due to LinuxCOn | 20:59 |
| ttx | sdague: wording suggestions welcome :) | 20:59 |
| ttx | #topic Open discussion | 20:59 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:59 | |
| fungi | annegentle: we have recognized atcs for translation/i18n now. that may be relevant | 20:59 |
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| annegentle | fungi: perfect, 3 topics makes a post | 21:00 |
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| ttx | Last words ? | 21:00 |
| ttx | Thanks everyone | 21:00 |
| ttx | #endmeeting | 21:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 21:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Aug 25 21:00:46 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 21:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2015/tc.2015-08-25-20.01.html | 21:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2015/tc.2015-08-25-20.01.txt | 21:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2015/tc.2015-08-25-20.01.log.html | 21:00 |
| EmilienM | #startmeeting crossproject | 21:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Aug 25 21:00:54 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is EmilienM. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 21:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 21:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: crossproject)" | 21:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'crossproject' | 21:00 |
| EmilienM | #link Agenda: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/CrossProjectMeeting | 21:01 |
| EmilienM | courtesy ping for david-lyle flaper87 dims dtroyer johnthetubaguy rakhmerov | 21:01 |
| dims | o/ | 21:01 |
| EmilienM | courtesy ping for smelikyan morganfainberg adrian_otto bswartz slagle | 21:01 |
| david-lyle | o/ | 21:01 |
| jokke_ | o/ | 21:01 |
| elmiko | o/ | 21:01 |
| EmilienM | courtesy ping for adrian_otto mestery kiall jeblair thinrichs j^2 stevebaker | 21:01 |
| hogepodge | o/ | 21:01 |
| EmilienM | courtesy ping for mtreinish Daisy Piet notmyname ttx isviridov gordc SlickNik | 21:01 |
| EmilienM | courtesy ping for cloudnull loquacities thingee hyakuhei redrobot dirk TravT | 21:01 |
| SergeyLukjanov | o/ | 21:01 |
| stevebaker | \o | 21:01 |
| ttx | EmilienM is so good at this I propose he permanently chairs this | 21:01 |
| mtreinish | o/ | 21:01 |
| notmyname | here (in the back of the room at a conference) | 21:01 |
| EmilienM | courtesy ping for vipul lifeless annegentle SergeyLukjanov devananda boris-42 nikhil_k | 21:01 |
| Rockyg | o/ | 21:01 |
| dhellmann | o/ | 21:01 |
| EmilienM | ttx: :) | 21:01 |
| EmilienM | hello everyone | 21:01 |
| gordc | o/ | 21:02 |
| ttx | short agenda, shall be quick | 21:02 |
| TravT | o/ | 21:02 |
| ttx | annegentle: if you want to discuss meeting time move we could add it to the agenda | 21:02 |
| annegentle | ttx: oh yes, please, sorry I didn't do that myself | 21:02 |
| EmilienM | #topic review past actions | 21:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "review past actions (Meeting topic: crossproject)" | 21:02 | |
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| morgan | o/ | 21:02 |
| * edleafe is still lurking | 21:02 | |
| ttx | Also we'll need volunteers for next week | 21:02 |
| EmilienM | ttx to followup .Z version increments on stable/liberty commits on the ML | 21:02 |
| EmilienM | ttx: o/ | 21:03 |
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| ttx | I did that in a follow-up post | 21:03 |
| EmilienM | cool | 21:03 |
| EmilienM | Daviey to explain why "tag now and then" is the 4th knight of the apocalypse on the ML | 21:03 |
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| ttx | he did that | 21:03 |
| EmilienM | Daviey: o/ | 21:03 |
| EmilienM | cool | 21:03 |
| EmilienM | and lifeless to document an in-tree solution without merge conflicts | 21:03 |
| ttx | quick note on that | 21:03 |
| ttx | Given how much time is left it's very likely that we'll do tag-now-and-then and in-tree release notes for stable/liberty since it doesn't require any specific development | 21:04 |
| ttx | and discuss evolutions of that at the summit | 21:04 |
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| ttx | damn, 6 months is so short | 21:04 |
| morgan | ttx: seriously | 21:04 |
| dhellmann | ttx: I'm experimenting a bit with some scripts based on lifeless' approach, but it's probably wise to go ahead with a single file for now | 21:04 |
| fungi | it's also a nice transition for stable branches, since we'll be starting in liberty with divergent version numbers anyway | 21:04 |
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| morgan | fungi: ++ | 21:05 |
| ttx | If we have somethgin ready by then, I'm totally open to going faster | 21:05 |
| fungi | so lock-step stable point releases will be less of an expectation from the community on those anyway | 21:05 |
| ttx | yeah | 21:05 |
| ttx | one change at a time | 21:05 |
| dims | y | 21:05 |
| loquacities | i'm late to the party, but here :) | 21:05 |
| ttx | for the recotd, lifeless did document his in-tree-without-merge-conflicts solution. | 21:05 |
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| EmilienM | cool | 21:05 |
| EmilienM | #info Meeting Chairs still needed for September 1, September 29, and October 13 | 21:05 |
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| fungi | and also, yes, 6 months is far too short | 21:05 |
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| EmilienM | gordc: if you accept to be chair next week, I'll come in Toronto and give you cookies | 21:06 |
| ttx | I won't take Sept 1 because that's liberty-3 week and I'll be very busy gettign Launchpad aligned with reality together with PTLs | 21:06 |
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| ttx | I advise dhellmann not to volunteer either | 21:06 |
| gordc | EmilienM: what sort of cookies? chocolate chip? | 21:06 |
| ttx | but anyone else is welcome to | 21:07 |
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| EmilienM | whatever you like | 21:07 |
| dims | EmilienM: i can volunteer | 21:07 |
| dhellmann | ttx: ack | 21:07 |
| EmilienM | dims: feel free to update https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/CrossProjectMeeting | 21:07 |
| dims | for Sept 1 | 21:07 |
| EmilienM | thx guys! | 21:07 |
| ttx | dims: Sold! add you to the page | 21:07 |
| EmilienM | #topic Team announcements (horizontal, vertical, diagonal) | 21:07 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Team announcements (horizontal, vertical, diagonal) (Meeting topic: crossproject)" | 21:07 | |
| ttx | release management: | 21:08 |
| ttx | As a reminder, we have liberty-3 next week, and a number of project will tag a b3 there | 21:08 |
| jokke_ | I can take the 29th if no-one else is bidding for it :P | 21:08 |
| ttx | For those, please join us on #openstack-relmgr-office during Tuesday (September 1st) so that we can help you clean up your Launchpad pages to match what was done since b2 | 21:08 |
| ttx | jokke_: sold too! | 21:08 |
| ttx | jokke_: add yourself to the wikipage | 21:08 |
| lifeless | ok, electrician gone | 21:08 |
| lifeless | I'm actually here now | 21:08 |
| * dims pays more attention if he is running the meeting :) | 21:08 | |
| ttx | lifeless: i defneded your honor and confirmed you completed your assigned action | 21:09 |
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| annegentle | API docs | 21:09 |
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| annegentle | Sent a status update to the ML | 21:09 |
| annegentle | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2015-August/072557.html | 21:09 |
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| EmilienM | ttx: should I remind PTLs to reply to your email about summit rooms? | 21:10 |
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| annegentle | and then also asked if any project other than nova generates their request and response samples | 21:10 |
| annegentle | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2015-August/072743.html | 21:10 |
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| elmiko | i responded to that too annegentle | 21:10 |
| ttx | EmilienM: can't hurt. If they don't, defaults to one workroom and a half-day meetup on Friday afternoon. | 21:10 |
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| Daviey | (sorry, in a real life meeting) | 21:11 |
| EmilienM | do we have any other announcements? | 21:11 |
| EmilienM | I guess no | 21:12 |
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| EmilienM | #topic Open discussion | 21:12 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: crossproject)" | 21:12 | |
| morgan | I like short meetings | 21:13 |
| EmilienM | anything you want to discuss that was not in agenda, please go ahead | 21:13 |
| rbradfor | I added an item to the agenda. sorry was few mins late | 21:13 |
| EmilienM | oh we actually have two things | 21:13 |
| EmilienM | I should have refreshed my Firefox | 21:13 |
| EmilienM | #topic Having a centralized and web visible place for code coverage of projects | 21:13 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Having a centralized and web visible place for code coverage of projects (Meeting topic: crossproject)" | 21:13 | |
| EmilienM | rbak: go ahead | 21:13 |
| EmilienM | oops | 21:13 |
| rbradfor | has anybody proposed to have say a cover.o.o centralized home for coverage tests of projects | 21:13 |
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| rbradfor | There are several justifications to consider. | 21:14 |
| EmilienM | not afik | 21:14 |
| morgan | that would be relatively interesting to have | 21:14 |
| Rockyg | haven't seen a proposal lately, but I'm +100 | 21:14 |
| rbradfor | 1. It helps new contributors to look for low hanging fruit to consider unit tests of code. | 21:14 |
| clarkb | rbradfor: maybe we can describe what the problems are with the existing implementation (there are many I am sure) | 21:14 |
| annegentle | EmilienM: oh I did add to the agenda | 21:14 |
| clarkb | and go from there? | 21:14 |
| EmilienM | annegentle: don't worry, it will be next topic | 21:14 |
| annegentle | EmilienM: ok thanks | 21:14 |
| fungi | i think this may dovetail into earlier discussions for a job dashboard (which could provide access to results of post-merge, tag-related and periodic job runs) | 21:15 |
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| rbradfor | 2. We can see overall coverage % across projects, and ideally we want to track % (specifically a decreasing % over time for new code) | 21:15 |
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| clarkb | 2. is possible today, its just not cleraly exposed | 21:15 |
| rbradfor | a few projects have non-voting gates that publish code coverage, but it's just logs. | 21:15 |
| morgan | rbradfor: so this has come up before, you can easily get a reduction in % of coverage without a negative impact to the code. | 21:16 |
| fungi | rbradfor: not at all | 21:16 |
| fungi | we upload the html coverage reports along with them | 21:16 |
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| rbradfor | morgan, agreed, but overtime would it not be a good practice to see code coverage increase | 21:16 |
| jokke_ | I'd really love to see initiative to improve the quality of the tests rather than quantity :P | 21:16 |
| clarkb | fungi: yup, so maybe whatwe need is just an index into the latest coverage report html | 21:16 |
| morgan | rbradfor: sure. | 21:16 |
| clarkb | fungi: and possibly generate that index with some scraped summary data | 21:17 |
| mtreinish | rbradfor: also some projects have post queue jobs that generate those reports, but they're kinda hard to discover | 21:17 |
| fungi | clarkb: yeah, i think that was one of the features desired for a job dashboard | 21:17 |
| morgan | jokke_: subjective vs objective. thats a hard comparison | 21:17 |
| rbradfor | clarkb, a central place for an index, even a wiki page is a start | 21:17 |
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| morgan | jokke_: not that i disagree | 21:17 |
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| morgan | rbradfor: just wanted to highlight a concern last time this came up (with blocking patches that reduced % of coverage) | 21:17 |
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| fungi | #link http://logs.openstack.org/82/165682/8/check/nodepool-coverage/08c6340/cover/ | 21:18 |
| fungi | an example | 21:18 |
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| rbradfor | here is an example of published reports from a jenkins job http://logs.openstack.org/38/212738/12/check/designate-coverage/bc2e329/ | 21:18 |
| jokke_ | morgan: it is, but rubbish unit tests to increase the coverage benefits no-one but the one who looks the coverage figures ;) | 21:18 |
| * jokke_ is not huge fan of unit tests | 21:18 | |
| morgan | rbradfor: as long as we're careful with what we use this for. | 21:18 |
| rbradfor | the HTML is available for viewing. | 21:18 |
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| morgan | jokke_: the move to functional tests is good as well fwiw, but that requires a different metric. unit tests have their place | 21:18 |
| rbradfor | morgan, I agree, blocking patches with reduce coverage is not a solution. | 21:18 |
| EmilienM | it's the same | 21:18 |
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| fungi | in fact, any time we set an arbitrary limit for rejecting changes, we find that most projects very quickly approach that limit. and if we move the milit, they very quickly reconverge at the new one | 21:19 |
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| fungi | maximum job run time and maximum test run time are good examples, as are memory utilization and disk utilization | 21:20 |
| rbradfor | my initial objective is to expose worthwhile information. | 21:20 |
| EmilienM | jokke_: being fan is not an option but is required to write good code I guess | 21:20 |
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| Rockyg | I think just having the coverage for all projects that do it locatable, no gates/triggers/etc, would provide food for test minded developers | 21:20 |
| rbradfor | the code coverage you can run on your own projects, but it's not published (consistently) | 21:21 |
| ttx | rbradfor: sounds like something you could raise on a ML thread to flesh out the goals, start the design and find volunteers | 21:21 |
| fungi | well, it's published consistently, it's just not easy to find | 21:21 |
| EmilienM | ttx++ | 21:21 |
| rbradfor | ttx, good point. I'll start there. | 21:21 |
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| clarkb | fungi: right I think all it needs as a starting point is an index | 21:21 |
| ttx | but I agree with fungi that it would be good to not limit to code coverage | 21:21 |
| rbradfor | fungi, can you explain what you mean by "not easy to find" | 21:22 |
| EmilienM | sounds like we need to solve the "easy to find" potential issue | 21:22 |
| fungi | also i think at the last summit there was pretty broad support for a test results dashboard for this sort of thing | 21:22 |
| jokke_ | EmilienM: I've seen lots of good code without single unit test, I've seen lots of rubbish code with even worse unit tests. Proves otherwise I think :P | 21:22 |
| morgan | fungi: ++ | 21:22 |
| fungi | rbradfor: there's no simple index to them. you need to generate log urls based on commit ids | 21:22 |
| morgan | fungi: I think that is going to be more and more relevant as we move towards funcitonal testing for projects | 21:22 |
| ttx | it's been on a the wanted list forever, just not enough people (or days in the week) | 21:22 |
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| Rockyg | so, plan to get a spec started is to go out to infra and get what they know about coverage, location of outputs, etc. Then write a strawman and start the discussion on the ML | 21:23 |
| rbradfor | my first objective is to expose the information to identify areas people *can* write unit tests for | 21:23 |
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| Rockyg | rbradfor, or functional tests... | 21:23 |
| fungi | #link https://review.openstack.org/192253 | 21:23 |
| rbradfor | Rockyg, yes functional also | 21:23 |
| fungi | that i think is the current tangible output from the summit discussions | 21:24 |
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| fungi | so might be a good idea to pick that up and run with it | 21:24 |
| rbradfor | fungi, thanks for the spec | 21:24 |
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| Rockyg | or run with a section of it...subspec kinda | 21:24 |
| clarkb | and yes the coverage html report things that are shiny for humans to look at are published to deterministic locations. The current miss there is we don't index them so that deterministic location isn't clear to everyone | 21:25 |
| fungi | yeah, at any rate discuss the coverage publishing interest in terms of that proposed spec | 21:25 |
| clarkb | so a dashboard can simply find the HEAD commit and link to the report | 21:25 |
| fungi | and trending wouldn't be too hard, though would probably involve parsing some output (and would have similar test name mutability issues that refstack is dealing with) | 21:26 |
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| rbradfor | if we keep the text version of the coverage report, even say weekly, it is very easy to publish trending data. | 21:27 |
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| fungi | i suppose that depends on the granularity/specificity of what you hope to trend though | 21:27 |
| fungi | trending overall coverage on a per-repo basis wouldn't be too hard. trending per-file runs into issues with files getting renamed, split, combined, et ecetera | 21:28 |
| morgan | fungi: i'd go for overall coverage to start | 21:28 |
| morgan | per file is something people can drill down into if they *really* care | 21:28 |
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| morgan | eventually we might go that way at the index level | 21:29 |
| morgan | but probably not worth it from an initial pass | 21:29 |
| Rockyg | Yeah. Getting *something* to start with lets us explore how to get more. | 21:29 |
| fungi | oh, also one other challenge is retention. currently we only retain a few months of these reports, so long-term trending would need a separate mechanism | 21:29 |
| rbradfor | I'll take this input and structure a ML email for wider discussion. Thanks for the feedback. | 21:29 |
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| mtreinish | fungi: also normally you don't care about the coverage of the test itself it's more the other code | 21:30 |
| mtreinish | that's being tested | 21:30 |
| EmilienM | rbradfor: thx | 21:30 |
| mtreinish | so I'm not sure the name thing applies | 21:30 |
| morgan | fungi: I smell a use for graphite or a similar thing. ;) | 21:30 |
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| Rockyg | mtreinish, ++ | 21:30 |
| rbradfor | fungi, technically you can always regenerate the code coverage for a commit. | 21:30 |
| Rockyg | morgan, ++ | 21:30 |
| clarkb | mtreinish: Rockyg the name thing applies to files changing names or functions moving | 21:30 |
| morgan | mtreinish: I run coverage reports on my coverage reports /s | 21:30 |
| EmilienM | can we go ahead in the agenda? | 21:31 |
| lifeless | rbradfor: well, you can regenerate /a/ code coverage | 21:31 |
| mtreinish | clarkb: sure, but that's not easily solved like we did it in tempest | 21:31 |
| lifeless | rbradfor: but there's sufficient nondeterminism that I'd not be willing to sign up for /the/ :) | 21:31 |
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| Rockyg | clarkb, Yeah. I'm deep in refstack. But the coverage doesn't have to report which *test* covered the code. Just that specific code was covered. | 21:31 |
| mtreinish | morgan: heh, you joke but at one time there was a coverage tempest run which showed how much of tempest was executed :) | 21:31 |
| mtreinish | I never did understand what that was for | 21:31 |
| morgan | i.. ok annnyway | 21:32 |
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| lifeless | mtreinish: didn't it measure the apis under test? | 21:32 |
| lifeless | I swear we did have something | 21:32 |
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| mtreinish | lifeless: no, that was a different thing | 21:32 |
| lifeless | I meant to dive on it and make it better but ETIME | 21:32 |
| mtreinish | lifeless: that was: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Nova/CoverageExtension | 21:32 |
| mtreinish | we pulled that out because coverage under eventlet was wonky. It's fixed in the 4.0 release | 21:33 |
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| fungi | rbradfor: well, i'd be surprised if you could conveniently rerun a coverage report (or even successfully run the unit tests you'd need) for a commit from 2 years ago | 21:33 |
| lifeless | fungi: constraints will make that reasonably straight forward | 21:34 |
| fungi | we have enough trouble just keeping year-old branches running tests reliably | 21:34 |
| lifeless | fungi: but still some non-determinism | 21:34 |
| fungi | lifeless: true | 21:34 |
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| rbradfor | well, I'm happy to work forward for now, getting historical coverage data is a wishlist. | 21:36 |
| Rockyg | rbradfor, ++ | 21:36 |
| EmilienM | good | 21:36 |
| EmilienM | I suggest to continue on ML that too | 21:36 |
| EmilienM | rbradfor, lifeless, fungi, mtreinish: sounds good? | 21:36 |
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| EmilienM | let's continue the meeting | 21:37 |
| EmilienM | #topic Proposed change to time of cross-project meeting | 21:37 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Proposed change to time of cross-project meeting (Meeting topic: crossproject)" | 21:37 | |
| EmilienM | annegentle: o/ | 21:37 |
| EmilienM | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/214605/ | 21:37 |
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| annegentle | hey | 21:38 |
| annegentle | so ttx just suggested the odd/even trade off which might serve this meeting well | 21:38 |
| annegentle | what do you all think? | 21:38 |
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| morgan | i was going to say even/odd trade would be better, because at 1300 UTC, I wont ever be there (as an example) | 21:38 |
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| annegentle | I can propose 1300 and what additional time then works well? 0100? | 21:39 |
| clarkb | 1300utc is something like 6am PDT and earlier when on PST | 21:39 |
| morgan | I would keep this time as the alternate. | 21:39 |
| morgan | personally. | 21:39 |
| ttx | +1 | 21:39 |
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| annegentle | morgan: ah, ok | 21:40 |
| fungi | i wonder whether alternating meeting times will eventually result in two different groups of people meeting once every two weeks, but i'm not opposed since i can attend whatever time it's scheduled and have no idea how many others are similarly flexible/crazy | 21:40 |
| morgan | 1300 UTC alternating I would definitely make an effort and probablly make it to ~3/4+ of the meetings but always at 1300 I'd make less than half. | 21:40 |
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| annegentle | so, 1300 and 2100 alternating | 21:41 |
| jokke_ | I personally love the time, but yeah sounds bit harsh for the far West (and that's lots from me as I normally don't care some odd harsh most of these being bit nasty for us here in Europe and equally ridiculous for people East from us) | 21:41 |
| annegentle | I can definitely propose it | 21:41 |
| morgan | An alternative that wouldn't be *awful* is likely 1700UTC [not sure who that conflicts with] | 21:41 |
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| ttx | annegentle: you should update the thread as well, not everybody follows irc-meetings changes | 21:41 |
| Rockyg | the 0100 is better for APAC | 21:41 |
| morgan | or even 1600 | 21:41 |
| morgan | but that is all personal bias. | 21:42 |
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| jokke_ | 1600/1700 UTC is pretty much never gonna make it | 21:42 |
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| jokke_ | Either those slots are already booked for all kind of cross continent meetings, or then I'm trying to migrate from office to home | 21:43 |
| annegentle | morgan: started with 1700, Euro eats then apparently | 21:43 |
| EmilienM | I think we can debate a lot of time, we will never make everyone happy - meeting slots are always the same discussion | 21:43 |
| morgan | annegentle: ah. | 21:43 |
| morgan | anyway i'd be fine with 1300/2100 | 21:43 |
| annegentle | right, so really just wanted to start the convo, see if alternating is needed, see if this meeting could be more finely tuned | 21:43 |
| fungi | part of me wonders whether the americas-centric meeting times are the reason why we have so many fewer emea/apac contributors and makes me want to avoid the appearance that we're picking meeting times out of sheer convenience for the current contributors. then there's another part of me which wonders if we'll simply be alienating the majority of our contributors by picking non-americas-convenient | 21:44 |
| fungi | times, and will manage to achieve cultural balance through sheer attrition | 21:44 |
| jokke_ | I think the 1300 would give us few odd APJ folks coming in as well | 21:44 |
| morgan | fungi: i think a little of column a and a little of column b | 21:44 |
| annegentle | fungi: it really started with me and sdague lamenting our ability to get to this meeting time :) | 21:44 |
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| annegentle | fungi: 'course it all gets adjusted again for that silly hour time change and all, but it feels like we've had this slot "forever" so also testing if we should try to get more people to this meeting | 21:45 |
| jokke_ | fungi: can we still say that majority of contributors are AMS ? | 21:45 |
| ttx | fungi: yeah, alternating meeting times is a bit of a two-edged sword | 21:46 |
| fungi | jokke_: last numbers i saw were, but i don't have extremely recent data now | 21:46 |
| ttx | I fear it will result in further marginalizing this meeting | 21:46 |
| gordc | ttx: is the idea to have ML first and irc meeting second still the proposed rule? | 21:46 |
| EmilienM | if the meeting concerns PTL & TC? Let's make a vote using doodle or something | 21:46 |
| Rockyg | Well, maybe office hours to get xproject champions for those who are on the wrong side of the globe at least? Something to give them more voice? | 21:47 |
| ttx | PTLs are the primary attendance | 21:47 |
| fungi | we've had ml discussions in the past where it was suggested that the fairest way to schedule is to pick the meeting time which is the least convenient for all participants, but that strikes me as an absurdly solomonesque position | 21:47 |
| jokke_ | rotating meeting time ... each week an hour later :P | 21:47 |
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| annegentle | ttx: I worry about this meeting too | 21:48 |
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| annegentle | jokke_: chase the clock, go! | 21:48 |
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| annegentle | Rockyg: heh on "wrong" side :) | 21:48 |
| morgan | annegentle: This is sounding like something we can get more feedback on at the summit as well. | 21:48 |
| morgan | we have access to more people there than here. | 21:48 |
| annegentle | morgan: ayup | 21:48 |
| morgan | annegentle: lets definitely plan for some "chase folks down and ask 'sooo that cross project meeting...'' :) | 21:49 |
| annegentle | morgan: it's odd that more people would be in person than in front of computers, tho | 21:49 |
| annegentle | morgan: good idea | 21:49 |
| ttx | We might want to think a bit more about the topic of this meetign before we change the time | 21:49 |
| morgan | the ML has good reach, but it's a firehose | 21:49 |
| Rockyg | Start a mailing list discussion, then wrap up at summit? | 21:49 |
| morgan | IRC is a bit limited in who happens to be looking | 21:49 |
| fungi | certainly, to some extent asking in the current meeting how many more people would attend a meeting time will result in some significant selection bias | 21:49 |
| annegentle | ttx: yes, does this meeting serve the purpose of cross-project work discussion | 21:50 |
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| ttx | At this point it seems to be a reserved slot in the week where people can push cross-project things they want to discuss with peers | 21:50 |
| morgan | this is a combined effort, talking here. ML to seed ideas, what is the topic, and in-person summit questions on timing | 21:50 |
| EmilienM | morgan: with [tags] it's not too bad except if you follow a lot of projects - I agree with you though | 21:50 |
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| jokke_ | ttx: mind to open up a bit? | 21:50 |
| morgan | EmilienM: it's better with [tag], it is still a firehose | 21:50 |
| ttx | If that is the case, then having multiple reserved slots in the week for people to choose from might be a solution | 21:50 |
| clarkb | EmilienM: heh not too bad? I have >10k unread emails :( | 21:50 |
| morgan | ttx: more office hours for x-project than a dedicated meeting? | 21:51 |
| morgan | or am i mis-reading the suggestion | 21:51 |
| EmilienM | clarkb: I personally follow [all] [infra] [puppet] and I don't spend more than one hour per day in e-mails | 21:51 |
| jokke_ | ttx: problem with that is that then you have multiple small groups who never talks to each other as no-one ever reads the logs and everyone picks the time most suitable :D | 21:51 |
| ttx | jokke_: yes | 21:52 |
| EmilienM | we have 9 min left guys | 21:52 |
| EmilienM | we might want to keep 5 min for open discussion | 21:52 |
| ttx | it's a difficult topic. I'd like to discuss that in Tokyo too, if only as a group therapy | 21:52 |
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| ttx | it just feels wrong to define times when we are still struggling defining what this meeting is about :) | 21:53 |
| jokke_ | ttx: yeah, then we can suffer next cycle of half sleep meetings | 21:53 |
| Rockyg | Yeah. Office hours would help for some of the stuff. | 21:53 |
| EmilienM | ttx: can we take an action to follow up that discussion, | 21:53 |
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| annegentle | group therapy please | 21:53 |
| EmilienM | ttx: like, organize a summit session about crossproject discussion & meetings | 21:53 |
| ttx | EmilienM: sure, you can action me on that. I hoped we would have a better idea before | 21:54 |
| jokke_ | coffee break by the restroom doors :) | 21:54 |
| ttx | it's a bit of a punt | 21:54 |
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| EmilienM | #action ttx to create a summit session about crossproject discussion & meetings | 21:54 |
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| ttx | it's like "this is a mess, we don't klnow how to fix it, but we'll talk 40 min about it in Tokyo and not make that much progress there | 21:55 |
| annegentle | hence the group therapy request :) | 21:55 |
| jokke_ | ++ | 21:55 |
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| EmilienM | it seems we have two issues here: the time slot and the purpose of this meeting - am I wrong? | 21:55 |
| annegentle | "cross project work is difficult and slow, how can we make it better" | 21:55 |
| ttx | I'd say the purpose of this meeting and maybe the time slot | 21:55 |
| jokke_ | Lets hug and make almos everyone uncomfortable :D | 21:55 |
| ttx | depending on the purpose the current timeslot may make sense | 21:56 |
| annegentle | right | 21:56 |
| EmilienM | we can fix them independently | 21:56 |
| ttx | like if the goal is to exclude China, it works pretty well. | 21:56 |
| annegentle | or "time slot change ain't gonna fix" | 21:56 |
| annegentle | ttx: ha | 21:56 |
| EmilienM | or maybe not | 21:56 |
| ttx | but yeah, I'll come to that session armed with data from this cycle | 21:56 |
| jokke_ | open discussion | 21:56 |
| EmilienM | today, they target PTLs & TC so why not doing a vote by using doodle or something? | 21:56 |
| jokke_ | (might lead back) | 21:56 |
| EmilienM | ok let's open it | 21:57 |
| EmilienM | #topic open discussion | 21:57 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: crossproject)" | 21:57 | |
| ttx | what was discussed, what could have been discussed somewhere else, what should probably have been discussed and wasn't | 21:57 |
| EmilienM | let's talk about cross project meeting time slots ! | 21:57 |
| EmilienM | :) | 21:57 |
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| Rockyg | :P | 21:57 |
| EmilienM | 3 minutes left, please raise any topic not in our agenda | 21:57 |
| jokke_ | so can we define the purpose for this meeting by the slot where it will land? | 21:58 |
| ttx | I think part of the issue is that we lack good digest information on the upstream side | 21:58 |
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| clarkb | fyi multinode testing is a thing we can and do do it. Just throwing that out there as I know there has been some confusion about it and many still think we cannot do it | 21:58 |
| ttx | we have plenty of blogs and newsletter to cover chanegs in the downstream ecosystem | 21:58 |
| ttx | not so much to help us deal with everything that happens on the open source project side | 21:58 |
| EmilienM | clarkb: any doc? useful link? | 21:59 |
| ttx | we can't really rely on the weekly newsletter to keep in touch | 21:59 |
| fungi | clarkb: that reminds me. the dvr multinode testing spec is hanging out there awaiting review. we should do something with it (bless it, reject it, provide new feedback). i'm rereading it now | 21:59 |
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| EmilienM | openstackreactions is a good start though | 21:59 |
| ttx | so I suspect part of the solution will be to reformat our development news | 21:59 |
| clarkb | EmilienM: nodepool documents it let me get a link | 21:59 |
| clarkb | fungi: it should be abandoned | 21:59 |
| clarkb | fungi: the design in there never took into account that we were running on clouds that don't give us shared l2 | 22:00 |
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| EmilienM | I need to close the meeting now | 22:00 |
| EmilienM | thanks everyone | 22:00 |
| fungi | clarkb: thanks | 22:00 |
| fungi | thanks EmilienM! | 22:00 |
| ttx | Thanks EmilienM ! | 22:00 |
| jokke_ | thanks | 22:00 |
| EmilienM | #endmeeting | 22:00 |
| clarkb | EmilienM: http://docs.openstack.org/infra/nodepool/configuration.html#labels the subnodes section | 22:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 22:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Aug 25 22:00:33 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 22:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/crossproject/2015/crossproject.2015-08-25-21.00.html | 22:00 |
| EmilienM | ttx: good night | 22:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/crossproject/2015/crossproject.2015-08-25-21.00.txt | 22:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/crossproject/2015/crossproject.2015-08-25-21.00.log.html | 22:00 |
| elmiko | thanks EmilienM | 22:01 |
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