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| anteaya | #startmeeting third-party | 08:03 |
|---|---|---|
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Aug 4 08:03:23 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is anteaya. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 08:03 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 08:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: third-party)" | 08:03 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'third_party' | 08:03 |
| anteaya | hello | 08:03 |
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| anteaya | anyone here for the third party meeting? | 08:04 |
| lennyb | Hi | 08:04 |
| anteaya | hi lennyb | 08:04 |
| anteaya | thanks for putting up the patch with akerr's work | 08:05 |
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| alexey_nex | hi | 08:05 |
| anteaya | much appreciated | 08:05 |
| anteaya | alexey_nex: hello there | 08:05 |
| anteaya | welcome | 08:05 |
| jyuso1 | anteaya: hi:) | 08:05 |
| anteaya | hey jyuso1 | 08:05 |
| anteaya | jyuso1: haven't seen you in a while | 08:05 |
| anteaya | jyuso1: I see you are on the board now? | 08:06 |
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| alexey_nex | thanks) i have a problem with glance randomly giving errors during tempest tests, anybody had such? | 08:06 |
| alexey_nex | 2015-07-29 11:58:11.257 [00;32mDEBUG glance.common.client [ [01;36mreq-825f8c76-c054-4449-9131-564c459ac889 [00;36m11a3387959af4db096abc67471e936bf 3b609ce8278a4a80ac817509ec7bbd84 [00;32m] [01;35m [00;32mConstructed URL: http://127.0.0.1:9191/images/cirros-0.3.4-x86_64-uec-kernel [00m [00;33mfrom (pid=10759) _construct_url /opt/stack/glance/glance/common/client.py:402 [00m 2015-07-29 11:58:11.592 [01;31mERROR glance.r | 08:06 |
| jyuso1 | anteaya: yes,I debug our ci environment these days.It's recover now. | 08:07 |
| lennyb | anteaya: np, it can save a lot of false alarms. how can it be merged? | 08:07 |
| anteaya | alexey_nex: do you know how to use a paste service? | 08:07 |
| alexey_nex | not rly... | 08:07 |
| anteaya | lennyb: well we need some reviewers to come to agreement | 08:07 |
| anteaya | alexey_nex: go here: http://paste.openstack.org/ | 08:08 |
| anteaya | alexey_nex: paste your stacktrace in the window and click the Paste! button | 08:08 |
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| anteaya | alexey_nex: you will get a unique url, bring that back to channel and share the url with use | 08:09 |
| anteaya | jyuso1: yay | 08:09 |
| alexey_nex | anteaya: thanks, here: http://paste.openstack.org/show/406832/ | 08:10 |
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| alexey_nex | the problem is that this error comes up randomly with the same version of our driver | 08:11 |
| alexey_nex | and there are no errorrs in c-* logs | 08:11 |
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| anteaya | alexey_nex: have you looked at glance bug reports to see if anyone has reported this as a bug | 08:11 |
| anteaya | alexey_nex: and thank you for using paste | 08:12 |
| alexey_nex | anteaya: yes, didn't find such bug | 08:12 |
| anteaya | alexey_nex: okay great | 08:13 |
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| lennyb | alexey_nex: did you check/upgraded glance client ? | 08:14 |
| anteaya | this error comes up randomly with the same version of our driver, what do you mean by that? | 08:14 |
| alexey_nex | I mean that it can pass all tests successfully and then the next run without any changes it fails | 08:15 |
| anteaya | the next run | 08:15 |
| anteaya | do you mean that you run the tests a second time on the same vm? | 08:16 |
| alexey_nex | lennyb: it appears on fresh devstack installs | 08:16 |
| alexey_nex | no, I always run them on a new vm | 08:16 |
| anteaya | what do you mean by the next run then? | 08:16 |
| lennyb | alexey_nex: clients are checked for minimum version and not being upgraded each time | 08:16 |
| alexey_nex | lennyb: but it's installed on a fresh ubuntu vm | 08:17 |
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| alexey_nex | anteaya: I mean that i just try to successfully test mulptiple times, each time on a clean ubuntu vm | 08:18 |
| anteaya | so it sounds like a race condition | 08:18 |
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| lennyb | alexey_nex: can it be a timing issue? the resource was not yet added or created. can you add a wait in your tests before the failure? | 08:19 |
| alexey_nex | I guess it could, how can i add a wait to tempest tests? | 08:20 |
| anteaya | alexey_nex: offer a patch to tempest | 08:20 |
| alexey_nex | ah ok, I will try that | 08:21 |
| anteaya | sounds good | 08:21 |
| anteaya | anything more on this? | 08:21 |
| alexey_nex | yes, thank you for the suggestion) | 08:21 |
| anteaya | thanks for asking | 08:21 |
| anteaya | anything more? | 08:22 |
| anteaya | new topic? | 08:22 |
| anteaya | does anyone have anything else they want to discuss? | 08:23 |
| lennyb | anteaya: nothing to discuss. I will try to catch asselin and eantishev next time | 08:23 |
| anteaya | lennyb: sounds like a plan, thank you | 08:23 |
| anteaya | jyuso1: anything you would like to discuss today? | 08:23 |
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| anteaya | do we have anything else to talk about in this meeting? | 08:24 |
| jyuso1 | anteaya: I don't have any other topic.Thanks:) | 08:25 |
| anteaya | jyuso1: thank you | 08:25 |
| anteaya | any reason I should not close the meeting? | 08:25 |
| anteaya | thank you everyone for your kind attendance and participation | 08:26 |
| lennyb | thanks | 08:26 |
| anteaya | see you next week | 08:26 |
| anteaya | thanks lennyb | 08:26 |
| anteaya | #endmeeting | 08:26 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 08:26 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Aug 4 08:26:21 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 08:26 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/third_party/2015/third_party.2015-08-04-08.03.html | 08:26 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/third_party/2015/third_party.2015-08-04-08.03.txt | 08:26 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/third_party/2015/third_party.2015-08-04-08.03.log.html | 08:26 |
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| Qiming | hello | 13:00 |
| Qiming | #startmeeting senlin | 13:00 |
| yanyanhu | hi | 13:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Aug 4 13:00:33 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is Qiming. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 13:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 13:00 |
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| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: senlin)" | 13:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'senlin' | 13:00 |
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| Qiming | hello guys | 13:01 |
| jruano | hello | 13:01 |
| lkarm | hello | 13:01 |
| yanyanhu | o/ | 13:01 |
| haiwei__ | hi | 13:01 |
| Qiming | let's get started | 13:01 |
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| Qiming | please add items to the agenda if you have things to share | 13:02 |
| Qiming | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/SenlinAgenda | 13:02 |
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| Qiming | #topic liberty-3 milestone targets | 13:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "liberty-3 milestone targets (Meeting topic: senlin)" | 13:03 | |
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| Qiming | refer to etherpad: https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/senlin-liberty-workitems | 13:03 |
| Qiming | we still have some items left from l-2 | 13:04 |
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| yanyanhu | yes, and we have 5 goals want to achieve | 13:04 |
| Qiming | right, those five are about l-3 | 13:04 |
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| jruano | i am closing out on mine by tomorrow | 13:05 |
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| Qiming | if everything goes smooth, I think we should try propose to switch the namespace, ;) | 13:05 |
| jruano | that sounds fantastic | 13:05 |
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| yanyanhu | is trigger also one of our goals? I saw it in backlog but not in goal list | 13:05 |
| yanyanhu | I hope it is :) | 13:06 |
| Qiming | it is in backlog, should have been completed by l-2 | 13:06 |
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| yanyanhu | ok | 13:06 |
| Qiming | need more reviews, you know | 13:06 |
| yanyanhu | right | 13:06 |
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| haiwei__ | switch the namespace means to be a openstack project? | 13:07 |
| Qiming | the big things ahead: container clusters, which is the topic for the summit talk | 13:07 |
| Qiming | yes, haiwei__ we should definitely try it | 13:07 |
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| haiwei__ | ok | 13:07 |
| Qiming | another big thing is senlinclient unit tests | 13:08 |
| jruano | i am working on the container clusters. behind where i need to be, i have spent some time trying to figure out magnum | 13:08 |
| Qiming | we have no a single line for that | 13:08 |
| Qiming | thanks, jruano, that is an important show case | 13:08 |
| Qiming | we are not supposed to only propose senlin server, leaving senlinclient on stackforge, that makes no sense | 13:09 |
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| yanyanhu | yep, so maybe we need to have a plan about the unit test of senlinclient | 13:10 |
| haiwei__ | yes, so the client test should be started soon | 13:10 |
| yanyanhu | maybe also file some bugs about it | 13:10 |
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| Qiming | as for placement policy, it would be part of our efforts to make senlin capable of supporting VM/app HA scenarios | 13:10 |
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| Qiming | +1 on filing some bugs now | 13:10 |
| yanyanhu | this is one of the most important feature we want to support in the first release I think | 13:11 |
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| yanyanhu | the placement policy to support cross az/region node creation | 13:11 |
| Qiming | it is important for two reasons | 13:11 |
| Qiming | we have some commitments to demonstrate cross-region autoscaling | 13:12 |
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| Qiming | placement policy would be also a show case for the upcoming OpenNFV summit in San Francisco | 13:12 |
| Qiming | that was the reason I'm putting it there in the list as an important goal | 13:13 |
| haiwei__ | you will git a demo about it? | 13:13 |
| Qiming | hopefully, Cindia can help us get that sorted out soon | 13:13 |
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| Qiming | yes, haiwei__ | 13:14 |
| jruano | we talked with a customer last week around tosca. they mentioned placement policy at the top of their list as well | 13:14 |
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| Qiming | it was a proposal submitted with China Mobile, VMware | 13:14 |
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| Qiming | just submitted today | 13:15 |
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| yanyanhu | Qiming, I think we may need to start work on this item asap to ensure we can give a prilimary implementation by the end of l-3 deadline | 13:15 |
| haiwei__ | when is the summit | 13:15 |
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| Qiming | it's Nov 08-14? | 13:15 |
| lkarm | i thought it was in october | 13:15 |
| jruano | tokyo is end of october this year | 13:16 |
| jruano | 27-30 i think? | 13:16 |
| yanyanhu | yes, hope no conflict | 13:16 |
| Qiming | right | 13:16 |
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| Qiming | openstack summit Oct 27-30, OpenNFV summit Nov 08-14 | 13:16 |
| Qiming | if we have supports from carrier vendors, we are really on a good track to get our work utilized | 13:18 |
| yanyanhu | HA policy is also needed as well as the placement policy? | 13:18 |
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| Qiming | placement policy is only part of the story, HA ... is a big topic | 13:18 |
| yanyanhu | ok, good news for now :) | 13:18 |
| Qiming | hopefully we can gain some traction, with placement policy as a starting point | 13:19 |
| yanyanhu | we don't have to jump into HA part in next month | 13:19 |
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| yanyanhu | ok | 13:19 |
| Qiming | again, I'm hoping that Cindia will lead that effort and get started soon | 13:19 |
| yanyanhu | that will be the best :) | 13:19 |
| Qiming | it is a separate thread | 13:19 |
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| haiwei__ | who is Cindia :) | 13:20 |
| Qiming | do we need to prioritize these items? | 13:20 |
| yanyanhu | lixinhui :) | 13:20 |
| Qiming | haiwei__, Cindia-Blue, :) | 13:20 |
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| haiwei__ | ok, absent today? | 13:20 |
| yanyanhu | no, Qiming, I think we just need to ensure every item has some guys to work on it | 13:21 |
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| Qiming | alright, sign your name after each item | 13:21 |
| yanyanhu | then we can know whether we really have bandwidth to finish these items | 13:21 |
| Qiming | it is okay to have more than one name signed on each item, right? | 13:22 |
| yanyanhu | sure :) | 13:22 |
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| Qiming | I'm signing on the senlinclient test cases | 13:22 |
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| haiwei__ | yap, but don't conflict | 13:22 |
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| Qiming | sure, if two or more people are working on the same item, we need to sync more frequently | 13:23 |
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| yanyanhu | hope I can finish the functional test setup | 13:23 |
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| Qiming | btw, jruano, do you need help on the unit tests? | 13:24 |
| Qiming | just noticed that you have claimed quite some of them | 13:24 |
| yanyanhu | and provide tests for some most important cases | 13:24 |
| Qiming | yanyanhu, that would be cool, giving both users and us more confidence on using the service | 13:24 |
| jruano | i think im good. i finished node_action, and started cluster_action | 13:25 |
| yanyanhu | yes, that's our goal | 13:25 |
| jruano | the new ones i claimed yesterday were for drivers | 13:25 |
| Qiming | okay, jruano, if the plate is too full for you, we can share, :) | 13:25 |
| Qiming | let's move on | 13:26 |
| jruano | sure np. | 13:26 |
| Qiming | #topic plan of functional testing | 13:26 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "plan of functional testing (Meeting topic: senlin)" | 13:26 | |
| Qiming | yanyanhu, | 13:26 |
| yanyanhu | ok | 13:26 |
| yanyanhu | now we plan to add functional test for Senlin service | 13:26 |
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| yanyanhu | currently, we only have unit test and all of them are located in senlin/tests | 13:27 |
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| yanyanhu | so we tried to relocate these existing tests and reorganize our test cases | 13:27 |
| yanyanhu | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/208944/ | 13:27 |
| yanyanhu | this patch move all unit tests into senlin/tests/unit directory | 13:28 |
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| yanyanhu | and new added functional test will be put into senlin/test/functional directory | 13:28 |
| yanyanhu | so some of you guys may need to rebase some existing works on unit test :) | 13:29 |
| Qiming | already get some report of merge failure, :) | 13:29 |
| yanyanhu | yes ;) | 13:29 |
| yanyanhu | first, we will try to add basic support of functional test locally | 13:30 |
| Qiming | functional test is mostly about ensuring the service behaves as expected when processing REST requests | 13:30 |
| yanyanhu | yep, so we don't touch other services in this part | 13:31 |
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| yanyanhu | only senlin services will be tested through REST API | 13:31 |
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| Qiming | so, basically, you will do 'source senlinrc; tox -e functional' | 13:32 |
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| Qiming | I hope by the end of l-3, we will have major workflows covered | 13:33 |
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| haiwei__ | this is also a big task | 13:34 |
| Qiming | absolutely | 13:34 |
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| yanyan | sorry, just dropped | 13:34 |
| Qiming | once the first workflow is running | 13:34 |
| Qiming | adding other workflows would be simple | 13:35 |
| yanyan | yes | 13:35 |
| Qiming | just send a REST request and assert the response | 13:35 |
| yanyan | hope can finish the first step in a week | 13:35 |
| Qiming | cool! | 13:35 |
| yanyan | scenario and integration test will be future work :) | 13:35 |
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| haiwei__ | it seems other projects are doing function tests in Tempest | 13:36 |
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| Qiming | integration test means we will be testing senlin's interaction with other services, using real Profile | 13:36 |
| haiwei__ | we will also move it to tempest maybe one day? | 13:36 |
| yanyan | hmm, most of them have moved functional test out of tempest I think | 13:36 |
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| yanyan | saw related patches and bps in different projects | 13:37 |
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| yanyan | Qiming, yes | 13:37 |
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| haiwei__ | yanyan, oh, my information is too old | 13:37 |
| Qiming | yes, doing functional tests there would make the gating job run very long | 13:37 |
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| yanyan | I also got this info from Qiming :) | 13:37 |
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| Qiming | in heat, we used to call them heat-slow tests | 13:38 |
| Qiming | and heat-very-slow tests, :) | 13:38 |
| haiwei__ | I used to write some function tests in tempest for nova | 13:38 |
| yanyan | :p | 13:38 |
| Qiming | anyway, functional tests in each project, that makes sense, we will do it | 13:39 |
| Qiming | yanyan, shall we move on? | 13:39 |
| jruano | right | 13:39 |
| yanyan | cool, maybe you can share some experience about it | 13:39 |
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| haiwei__ | ok | 13:39 |
| yanyan | ok | 13:39 |
| yanyan | lets move on | 13:39 |
| Qiming | #topic clusters of containers | 13:39 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "clusters of containers (Meeting topic: senlin)" | 13:39 | |
| Qiming | jruano, anything new to share? | 13:39 |
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| jruano | i am a little behind here... i spend some time digging through magnum and it has been more difficult than i expected | 13:40 |
| jruano | magnum requires a coe to manage containers | 13:40 |
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| Qiming | okay, that's true | 13:41 |
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| jruano | so for the poc i am not sure we need all of that | 13:41 |
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| Qiming | there are things we cannot control out there | 13:41 |
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| jruano | so for the short term i am focused on trying to get a cluster of containers deployed under coreos | 13:42 |
| Qiming | maybe senlin is not capable of assuming the role of a coe in near future | 13:43 |
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| jruano | i'd hope it can | 13:43 |
| jruano | magnum is wanting to be generic, but it is semantically very close to k8s | 13:44 |
| Qiming | it seems to me that Magnum is still brainstorming their horizontal scaling support | 13:44 |
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| Qiming | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2015-August/071216.html | 13:44 |
| Qiming | to be honest, we have been asking the question again and again, what are the values magnum bring to users | 13:44 |
| jruano | lol | 13:45 |
| jruano | i am struggling with it | 13:45 |
| jruano | fundamentally to me it appears to be a k8s abstraction | 13:45 |
| Qiming | maybe the magnum team has some ideas I'm not aware of | 13:45 |
| Qiming | do we need a k8s abstraction? | 13:46 |
| jruano | when i talk to folks in tosca, they want a generic container service | 13:46 |
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| Qiming | the 'container engine' could be docker or k8s, right? | 13:46 |
| haiwei__ | as far as I know, magnum is just a tool to install k8s | 13:46 |
| Qiming | yes, that is my understanding as well, haiwei__ | 13:46 |
| jruano | yes haiwei_ that is what it looks like from the code | 13:47 |
| Qiming | and it is using Heat to do the VM provisioning | 13:47 |
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| jruano | yep | 13:47 |
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| Qiming | a unified abstraction above docker and k8s? that is challenging | 13:47 |
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| haiwei__ | so what is our goal to work with magnum? | 13:48 |
| haiwei__ | we want magnum to use senlin? | 13:48 |
| Qiming | not just from technical perspective | 13:48 |
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| Qiming | we believe Senlin can do a better job managing the VMs they use to run containers | 13:48 |
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| Qiming | anyway, let's keep investigating | 13:49 |
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| haiwei__ | so that should be magnum->k8s->docker->senlin->vm->containers? | 13:49 |
| jruano | that is where i am at. i will have more over the next couple of days | 13:50 |
| Qiming | the vision is: magnum talks to senlin to provision VMs, it then talks to k8s or docker to privision containers | 13:50 |
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| Qiming | maybe senlin should help manage the containers directly, :P | 13:51 |
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| jruano | thats where i was headed | 13:51 |
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| Qiming | oh, really? | 13:51 |
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| jruano | but magnum for now seems to want to just push that to the underlying coe | 13:51 |
| Qiming | magnum doesn't want to reinvent things | 13:52 |
| jruano | true | 13:52 |
| Qiming | k8s has a big community, docker has another | 13:52 |
| Qiming | you are not compete head to head with them | 13:52 |
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| Qiming | so, for Senlin, we just see where we can help | 13:53 |
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| Qiming | okay, we don't have much time now | 13:53 |
| Qiming | #topic open discussions | 13:53 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open discussions (Meeting topic: senlin)" | 13:53 | |
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| Qiming | anything we have missed? | 13:54 |
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| yanyan | nope from me | 13:54 |
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| Qiming | guess no | 13:54 |
| jruano | nothing from me | 13:55 |
| Qiming | see you guys, thanks for joining | 13:55 |
| haiwei__ | it's ok for me | 13:55 |
| Qiming | #endmeeting | 13:55 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: third-party)" | 13:55 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Aug 4 13:55:14 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 13:55 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/senlin/2015/senlin.2015-08-04-13.00.html | 13:55 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/senlin/2015/senlin.2015-08-04-13.00.txt | 13:55 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/senlin/2015/senlin.2015-08-04-13.00.log.html | 13:55 |
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| mestery | kevinbenton dougwig carl_baldwin: You folks around for a drivers meeting this week in 2 minutes? | 14:58 |
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| dougwig | o/ | 14:59 |
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| mestery | dougwig: OK, lets just do this quick since it's only me nad you today so far :) | 15:00 |
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| mestery | #startmeeting neutron-drivers | 15:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Aug 4 15:00:48 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is mestery. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 15:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 15:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: neutron-drivers)" | 15:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'neutron_drivers' | 15:00 |
| dougwig | my doc ordered me off red bull, so we'll see how much patience i have. | 15:00 |
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| mestery | lol | 15:01 |
| mestery | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/NeutronDrivers#Agenda Agenda | 15:01 |
| mestery | So, since it's just me and you dougwig ... | 15:01 |
| mestery | #topic Liberty-3 Review Backlog and Apocalypse | 15:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Liberty-3 Review Backlog and Apocalypse (Meeting topic: neutron-drivers)" | 15:01 | |
| mestery | This is all I had this week | 15:01 |
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| mestery | Because honestly, at this point, accepting new RFEs isn't high on my list | 15:02 |
| mestery | :) | 15:02 |
| dougwig | how bad is the backlog? i haven't looked since getting back from vacation. i didn't want to ruin my mellow. | 15:02 |
| mestery | yeah, it's bad | 15:02 |
| * mestery #link https://launchpad.net/neutron/+milestone/liberty-3 | 15:02 | |
| mestery | 28 blueprints | 15:02 |
| mestery | #info 28 blueprints left to merge in Liberty | 15:02 |
| mestery | So, I guess we just need to focus and review. | 15:03 |
| dougwig | ok, well, that'll never hapen. | 15:03 |
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| mestery | #info Plan is to fold QoS back into mast week of 8/10 | 15:03 |
| dougwig | do we have a list of what we really want to make it, or what's far enough along? | 15:03 |
| mestery | #info Plan is to fold pecan back into master week of 8/17 | 15:03 |
| mestery | Go with priority there | 15:03 |
| dougwig | ok | 15:03 |
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| mestery | So | 15:04 |
| mestery | question dougwig | 15:04 |
| mestery | Octacvia | 15:04 |
| mestery | How is it coming? | 15:04 |
| mestery | Is it ready to be default? | 15:04 |
| * carl_baldwin wanders in | 15:04 | |
| dougwig | i will have an answer for you later today. | 15:04 |
| mestery | carl_baldwin: Hey man! :) | 15:04 |
| mestery | OK | 15:04 |
| dougwig | i suspect that it's not quite there for liberty, but let me circle with folks and come back. | 15:04 |
| mestery | #action dougwig to get a readout on Octavia and go/no-go for Liberty | 15:04 |
| mestery | carl_baldwin: We're discussing Liberty-3 items: https://launchpad.net/neutron/+milestone/liberty-3 | 15:04 |
| mestery | Because that's all we should be focusing on now, there is a lot to merge yet | 15:05 |
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| carl_baldwin | mestery: ack | 15:05 |
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| mestery | dougwig: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/neutron/+spec/neutron-lib | 15:06 |
| mestery | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/neutron/+spec/neutron-lib | 15:06 |
| mestery | What's the status of that one? | 15:06 |
| mestery | It's critical :) | 15:06 |
| dougwig | the status is that i'm a terrible person. safe to kick to M? | 15:06 |
| mestery | lol | 15:06 |
| mestery | I think we may have to, I'll let you decide :) | 15:07 |
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| mestery | I need your opinions on this one carl_baldwin and dougwig | 15:07 |
| mestery | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/neutron/+spec/reference-implementation-split | 15:07 |
| dougwig | i will likely get the first commit into gerrit before M, but I don't think it's reasonable for to expect it to land or to do a big churn right at the end. | 15:07 |
| mestery | Shall we try to do this post Liberty-3? That is the best option now. | 15:07 |
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| mestery | dougwig: Sounds fair | 15:07 |
| mestery | Unless we do it during the freeze along with mine | 15:07 |
| dougwig | doing the ref split during the freeze would not leave the packagers much time to react. | 15:08 |
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| mestery | That's true, but doing it before that will kill anything which wants to merge into the things being split | 15:08 |
| carl_baldwin | +1 | 15:08 |
| mestery | So, not sure how to proceed | 15:08 |
| mestery | Early Mitaka? | 15:08 |
| dougwig | i think it's early M. | 15:09 |
| mestery | Yeah, sadly, me too :( | 15:09 |
| carl_baldwin | agree | 15:09 |
| mestery | Nuts | 15:09 |
| * carl_baldwin feels the pain | 15:09 | |
| mestery | #info Move neutron-lib and reference-split into Mitaka :( | 15:09 |
| mestery | OK, I'll move those | 15:09 |
| dougwig | so then you're a terrible person too. :) | 15:09 |
| mestery | Every. Single. Day. | 15:09 |
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| mestery | OK | 15:10 |
| mestery | Any other high priority ones? | 15:10 |
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| mestery | carl_baldwin: What about the DNS work mlavelle is doing? | 15:10 |
| mestery | Will those make Liberty? | 15:10 |
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| carl_baldwin | mestery: I’ve reviewed an early implementation and heard reports of good progress while I was out. Planning to review today. | 15:10 |
| carl_baldwin | I think there is a good chance. | 15:11 |
| mestery | Ack | 15:11 |
| mestery | OK | 15:11 |
| mestery | cool! | 15:11 |
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| HenryG | carl_baldwin: do you think we can get ipv6 PD in too? | 15:11 |
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| carl_baldwin | HenryG: I’ve been sadly absent for a couple of weeks. Have you reviewed them lately? | 15:12 |
| carl_baldwin | HenryG: I was trying to prioritize them before I left on leave. | 15:12 |
| HenryG | carl_baldwin: yes, the first patch is ready IMO | 15:12 |
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| mestery | HenryG: Thanks for keeping an eye on that :) | 15:13 |
| carl_baldwin | HenryG: I will add that to my list today. | 15:13 |
| haleyb | HenryG: this one? https://review.openstack.org/#/c/158697/ | 15:13 |
| HenryG | haleyb: yes | 15:13 |
| mestery | haleyb: Is there a LP BP for your "Get Me a Network" thing? http://specs.openstack.org/openstack/neutron-specs/specs/liberty/get-me-a-network.html | 15:14 |
| mestery | haleyb: If not, can you create one? I'd like to track that as Critical as well. | 15:14 |
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| mestery | :) | 15:14 |
| mestery | No pressure | 15:14 |
| mestery | Or anything ;) | 15:14 |
| * haleyb wishes he was still on vacation :) | 15:14 | |
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| haleyb | i'll create a blueprint | 15:14 |
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| mestery | lol | 15:15 |
| mestery | thanks haleyb! | 15:15 |
| mestery | #action haleyb to create LP BP for "Get Me a Network" | 15:15 |
| mestery | carl_baldwin: One other question for you: Any idea how the "DVR + L3 HA" work is coming along? | 15:16 |
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| carl_baldwin | mestery: Sadly I’m not up to date on that one either. | 15:16 |
| mestery | #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/1365473 | 15:16 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1365473 in neutron "Unable to create a router that's both HA and distributed" [High,In progress] | 15:16 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1365473 in neutron "Unable to create a router that's both HA and distributed" [High,In progress] - Assigned to Adolfo Duarte (adolfo-duarte) | 15:16 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1365473 in neutron "Unable to create a router that's both HA and distributed" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1365473 | 15:16 |
| mestery | carl_baldwin: No worries, we'll figure it out :) | 15:16 |
| haleyb | mestery: was the routed networks BP approved last week? i see a couple reviews up for it but nothing in the minutes | 15:17 |
| haleyb | https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/1472704 | 15:17 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1472704 in neutron "Support networks that work through routing instead of bridging" [Undecided,In progress] - Assigned to Neil Jerram (neil-jerram) | 15:17 |
| carl_baldwin | haleyb: It is back on the drawing board. | 15:17 |
| mestery | haleyb: It most definitely should not have been, can you find the link? | 15:17 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1472704 in neutron "Support networks that work through routing instead of bridging" [Undecided,In progress] | 15:17 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1472704 in neutron "Support networks that work through routing instead of bridging" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1472704 | 15:17 |
| mestery | See comment #3 there | 15:18 |
| carl_baldwin | haleyb: Oh, that is different than what I was thinking. | 15:18 |
| carl_baldwin | But, I think that one’s fate is somewhat tied to the fate of the network segments one. | 15:18 |
| mestery | Yes | 15:18 |
| mestery | carl_baldwin: +1000.5 | 15:18 |
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| carl_baldwin | mestery: Just round up, I can’t do decimals in that context. ;) | 15:19 |
| mestery | rofl | 15:19 |
| mestery | carl_baldwin: You and I are going to talk network segments later today and try to resolve that to see what can be done in Liberty yet | 15:19 |
| mestery | I remain hopeful | 15:19 |
| mestery | But realistic too :) | 15:19 |
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| haleyb | it was in reference to https://review.openstack.org/#/c/206079/ | 15:20 |
| carl_baldwin | mestery: You’re more optimistic than I am (or less informed maybe). I’m hoping for M. | 15:20 |
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| mestery | rofl | 15:20 |
| mestery | carl_baldwin: Yeah, that's likely, but even some groundwork going into Liberty may be positive. | 15:20 |
| mestery | I'm ever vigilant carl_baldwin :D | 15:20 |
| * mestery pokes dougwig and hands him a red bull | 15:20 | |
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| carl_baldwin | mestery: Agreed. Work has not stopped but it is back to the drawing board to see if there is a better way. | 15:21 |
| mestery | carl_baldwin: Excellent! | 15:21 |
| mestery | #topic Open Discussion | 15:21 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: neutron-drivers)" | 15:21 | |
| mestery | Anything else this week or should I give you all 39 minutes back? | 15:21 |
| mestery | :) | 15:21 |
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| carl_baldwin | I was asked to inquire about https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/1468366 | 15:22 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1468366 in neutron "RFE - Packet logging API for Neutron" [Undecided,Confirmed] - Assigned to Yushiro FURUKAWA (y-furukawa-2) | 15:22 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1468366 in neutron "RFE - Packet logging API for Neutron" [Undecided,Confirmed] | 15:22 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1468366 in neutron "RFE - Packet logging API for Neutron" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1468366 | 15:22 |
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| mestery | carl_baldwin: HenryG had a good point on that one, it's not clear that one belongs in Neutron itself | 15:22 |
| carl_baldwin | mestery: I missed that from HenryG | 15:23 |
| mestery | carl_baldwin: It was just this morning :) | 15:23 |
| carl_baldwin | I don’t feel so bad then. | 15:23 |
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| mestery | :) | 15:23 |
| mestery | OK, thanks for attending and lets focus on reviews! We don't have much time left :) | 15:24 |
| carl_baldwin | Between mestery and HenryG, could the rfe bug be updated with this? | 15:24 |
| mestery | So lets see what else we can land now :) | 15:24 |
| mestery | carl_baldwin: Yes, I'll do that. | 15:24 |
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| carl_baldwin | Thanks! | 15:24 |
| mestery | OK, thanks folks! | 15:25 |
| mestery | #endmeeting | 15:25 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: third-party)" | 15:25 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Aug 4 15:25:19 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 15:25 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_drivers/2015/neutron_drivers.2015-08-04-15.00.html | 15:25 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_drivers/2015/neutron_drivers.2015-08-04-15.00.txt | 15:25 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_drivers/2015/neutron_drivers.2015-08-04-15.00.log.html | 15:25 |
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| krtaylor | #startmeeting third-party | 17:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Aug 4 17:00:48 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is krtaylor. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 17:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 17:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: third-party)" | 17:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'third_party' | 17:00 |
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| krtaylor | anyone here for Third party CI Working group meeting? | 17:01 |
| asselin_ | hi | 17:01 |
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| krtaylor | hi asselin_ | 17:01 |
| marcusvrn | hi | 17:02 |
| mmedvede | o/ | 17:02 |
| rfolco | o/ | 17:02 |
| krtaylor | hi marcusvrn mmedvede rfolco | 17:02 |
| krtaylor | so here is the agenda for today: | 17:03 |
| krtaylor | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/ThirdParty#8.2F4.2F15_1700_UTC | 17:03 |
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| krtaylor | basically a carry-over from last meeting | 17:03 |
| krtaylor | mainly because I was on vacation all last week | 17:03 |
| * asselin_ was also on cavation last week | 17:03 | |
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| krtaylor | ah, good to know | 17:04 |
| asselin_ | well...not in a cave :) | 17:04 |
| krtaylor | hehheh | 17:04 |
| marcusvrn | I was on vacation last month....hehehe | 17:04 |
| krtaylor | looks like we landed some good patches and contributions in the repo | 17:04 |
| krtaylor | good stuff | 17:04 |
| krtaylor | so does anyone have any quick announcements? deadlines approaching? | 17:05 |
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| mmedvede | just an fyi, recent upper-constraints update broke f21 gate | 17:05 |
| mmedvede | both us and upstream | 17:05 |
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| krtaylor | yes, thanks mmedvede | 17:05 |
| mmedvede | well, upstream was broken already, but it broke it further :) | 17:06 |
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| krtaylor | anything else? | 17:06 |
| krtaylor | #topic Common CI | 17:06 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Common CI (Meeting topic: third-party)" | 17:06 | |
| krtaylor | downstream puppet continues to move along | 17:06 |
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| krtaylor | anything you'd like to work through here asselin_ mmedvede | 17:07 |
| asselin_ | yes, nodepool refactoring is next | 17:07 |
| asselin_ | lots of progress has been made | 17:07 |
| asselin_ | would be good to focus reviews on those...it's a big change | 17:07 |
| asselin_ | #link nodepool patches to review are on etherpad: https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/common-ci-sprint | 17:08 |
| krtaylor | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/q/topic:downstream-puppet,n,z | 17:09 |
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| asselin_ | yes, the topic has a lot more changes | 17:10 |
| krtaylor | was looking, lots of good work | 17:11 |
| asselin_ | it would be good to focus on nodepool since it is a big change | 17:11 |
| krtaylor | yes and mmedvede, yours look to be reviewed and ready to go, just need approval | 17:11 |
| mmedvede | krtaylor: mine a low priority. But yes, a couple of them are ready | 17:12 |
| krtaylor | lots of depends-on links | 17:13 |
| krtaylor | for nodepool, thats good | 17:13 |
| asselin_ | mmedvede, I have those on my list too, but have been prioritzing nodepool | 17:13 |
| krtaylor | ok, anything else here, other than do reviews? | 17:15 |
| krtaylor | ok, we can come back to it if needed in open discussion | 17:16 |
| asselin_ | i think that's it | 17:16 |
| krtaylor | #topic Spec for infra hosting a monitoring dashboard | 17:16 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Spec for infra hosting a monitoring dashboard (Meeting topic: third-party)" | 17:16 | |
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| krtaylor | this has got some good reviews, not for content, which is a good sign | 17:16 |
| krtaylor | jhesketh didn't like the naming, which I can certainly change, but was hoping to just have the other spec moved by now | 17:17 |
| krtaylor | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/194437/ | 17:17 |
| krtaylor | I did appreciate him not holding it up for naming in the rollcall, that was cool | 17:18 |
| krtaylor | sweston, are you around? | 17:18 |
| krtaylor | I didn't get a chance to follow up last week due to vacation | 17:19 |
| krtaylor | ok, well, I'll ping him later - maybe we just need to move it with a new patchset to third-party-ci-tools | 17:20 |
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| krtaylor | and capture the comments in a txt file | 17:20 |
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| krtaylor | then we can abandon the infra spec | 17:21 |
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| krtaylor | so, also in the agenda and related is the last comment dashboard got merged to third-party-ci-tools | 17:22 |
| krtaylor | patrickeast isn't in channel | 17:23 |
| asselin_ | #link last-comment https://git.openstack.org/cgit/stackforge/third-party-ci-tools/tree/monitoring/lastcomment-scoreboard | 17:23 |
| krtaylor | I took an action to start an email discussion on which way to go - scoreboard or last comment | 17:24 |
| krtaylor | I didn't get to that before vacation | 17:24 |
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| krtaylor | I personally feel like we should just stay with scoreboard for now, but I don't have a strong preference | 17:25 |
| krtaylor | I just want to get something working now | 17:25 |
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| krtaylor | yesterday | 17:25 |
| mmedvede | unrelated, could people with +2 take a look at https://review.openstack.org/#/c/194490/ and approve maybe (scoreboard square stats, instead of piecharts) | 17:25 |
| krtaylor | mmedvede, will do | 17:25 |
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| mmedvede | thx | 17:26 |
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| krtaylor | also, I feel that waiting on an email discussion would slow this whole process down again | 17:26 |
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| krtaylor | but, we can, if it needs to happen | 17:26 |
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| krtaylor | ok, not much input here so I'll go to the mail list | 17:27 |
| krtaylor | next then | 17:27 |
| mmedvede | Do you think it would help if we throw together scoreboard POC puppet deploy? | 17:27 |
| krtaylor | and have it depends-on the spec? yes I do think that woul dhelp | 17:28 |
| krtaylor | would help | 17:28 |
| asselin_ | mmedvede, I think so, would be valuable regardless fo those setting it up | 17:28 |
| krtaylor | ++ | 17:28 |
| mmedvede | asselin_: cool. I would look into creating module on github, or inside the third-party tools repo | 17:28 |
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| krtaylor | hm, repo is fine, I can refresh spec with a link | 17:29 |
| asselin_ | +1 for third-party tools repo | 17:29 |
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| krtaylor | mmedvede, that would be very helpful | 17:29 |
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| mmedvede | asselin_: I am not clear on what would happen if infra would deploy it. Would they split out puppet module, or just use it as is out of third-party repo | 17:30 |
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| mmedvede | that is the only concern for creating a separate repo for the module | 17:31 |
| krtaylor | that would be a guide template I would think, it would be a new module | 17:31 |
| asselin_ | mmedvede, yes tha's a good point. | 17:31 |
| asselin_ | so if it's in github already, you can just import it. | 17:31 |
| krtaylor | right | 17:31 |
| asselin_ | ok, I change my vote to new github repo :) | 17:32 |
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| mmedvede | I assume they would want control over it, and would not be ok to deploy from third-party tools :) | 17:32 |
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| krtaylor | mmedvede I guess I was thinking it would be used and moved, just a place to put it while spec was approved | 17:33 |
| mmedvede | separate github repo needs to happen, it is just a question whether we start in third-party tools, and then cut it out | 17:33 |
| krtaylor | exactly | 17:33 |
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| krtaylor | ok, so, I guess it can be fixed any way it is done, mmedvede what ever you want to do would be great | 17:37 |
| mmedvede | #action mmedvede look into creating puppet-scoreboard module | 17:37 |
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| asselin_ | +1 mmedvede decides :) | 17:37 |
| krtaylor | +1 | 17:37 |
| mmedvede | thanks :) | 17:37 |
| krtaylor | thank you mmedvede , that will help - this is really important to start improving the trust in CI systems | 17:38 |
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| asselin_ | +1 | 17:38 |
| krtaylor | anything we can do to make this as painless for infra to implement is a plus | 17:38 |
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| krtaylor | anything else on this? | 17:39 |
| krtaylor | #topic TPCI Repo patches for review | 17:39 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "TPCI Repo patches for review (Meeting topic: third-party)" | 17:39 | |
| krtaylor | so I added a topic this week, that I like to see continue | 17:39 |
| krtaylor | that is to remind everyone to go review our patches | 17:40 |
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| krtaylor | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/q/project:stackforge/third-party-ci-tools+status:open,n,z | 17:40 |
| krtaylor | feel free to add patches that you feel need a broader audience | 17:41 |
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| krtaylor | like the one you brought up mmedvede | 17:41 |
| krtaylor | if time permits, we can review/approve them in this meeting | 17:42 |
| krtaylor | so, lets come back to that | 17:43 |
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| krtaylor | #topic Open Discussion | 17:43 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: third-party)" | 17:43 | |
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| krtaylor | anyone? | 17:43 |
| krtaylor | else, I am looking at: | 17:44 |
| krtaylor | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/194490/ | 17:44 |
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| mmedvede | unfortunately amazon scoreboard instance is down | 17:45 |
| krtaylor | yes, mine is not coming up | 17:45 |
| mmedvede | the code is working. I did not want to ninja-merge it all on my own | 17:46 |
| krtaylor | mmedvede, appreciated, I agree with your comment | 17:46 |
| mmedvede | I asked to use bar charts instead of pie charts | 17:46 |
| krtaylor | but it would be nice to see it | 17:46 |
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| krtaylor | pie is the "legacy" way of doing it, for those that remember radar | 17:47 |
| krtaylor | I don't have a preference really | 17:47 |
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| krtaylor | mmedvede, did it not look right? | 17:48 |
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| mmedvede | piecharts actually just a bad type of chart to use. | 17:48 |
| mmedvede | hard to compare | 17:49 |
| krtaylor | hehheh, ok, fair enough | 17:49 |
| mmedvede | research is on my side :) | 17:49 |
| mmedvede | yeah, that is not really important in the end, as long as we have something working | 17:49 |
| krtaylor | +1000 | 17:50 |
| krtaylor | patrickeast may be on vacation, I'd hate to hold this up | 17:50 |
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| krtaylor | if you have seen it and it is close enough, I'll approve it | 17:50 |
| krtaylor | I guess we could deploy it internally :) | 17:51 |
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| asselin_ | I don't have it deployed yet, but I will review it still | 17:51 |
| mmedvede | yes, I saw the patch work. I can switch to patch commit internally and test | 17:52 |
| krtaylor | mmedvede, how hard is it to update our internal with this patch? | 17:52 |
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| mmedvede | krtaylor: very easy | 17:52 |
| krtaylor | ++ | 17:52 |
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| krtaylor | ok, we are getting close to time, anything else from anyone? | 17:53 |
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| krtaylor | thanks everyone! | 17:56 |
| asselin_ | thanks krtaylor | 17:56 |
| mmedvede | thank you krtaylor | 17:56 |
| krtaylor | #endmeeting | 17:56 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: third-party)" | 17:56 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Aug 4 17:56:45 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 17:56 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/third_party/2015/third_party.2015-08-04-17.00.html | 17:56 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/third_party/2015/third_party.2015-08-04-17.00.txt | 17:56 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/third_party/2015/third_party.2015-08-04-17.00.log.html | 17:56 |
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| dolphm | ajayaa, amakarov, ayoung, breton, browne, davechen, david8hu, dolphm, dstanek, ericksonsantos, geoffarnold, gyee, henrynash, hogepodge, htruta, jamielennox, joesavak, lbragstad, lhcheng, marekd, morganfainberg, nkinder, raildo, rharwood, rodrigods, roxanaghe, samueldmq, stevemar, topol, wanghong: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/KeystoneMeeting | 18:00 |
| raildo | \o | 18:00 |
| david8hu | \o | 18:00 |
| samueldmq | olá o/ | 18:00 |
| lbragstad | whoa, it's the old days, dolphm's running the show | 18:00 |
| gyee | \o | 18:00 |
| browne | hi | 18:00 |
| david8hu | ola | 18:00 |
| geoffarnold | \o | 18:00 |
| rodrigods | hey | 18:00 |
| lhcheng | o/ | 18:00 |
| henrynash | zipedeedodahzipedeeday | 18:00 |
| tsymanczyk | o/ | 18:00 |
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| dstanek | hello all | 18:01 |
| geoffarnold | Do you have a macro for that, henrynash? | 18:01 |
| iurygregory | o/ | 18:01 |
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| hogepodge | o/ | 18:01 |
| marekd | hello | 18:01 |
| dstanek | short agenda today | 18:01 |
| henrynash | no…have to spell it wromng every time | 18:01 |
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| stevemar | i'm barely here | 18:01 |
| dolphm | dstanek: hope so! | 18:01 |
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| topol | o/ | 18:01 |
| dolphm | #startmeeting keystone | 18:01 |
| henrynash | stevemar: dress appropriatley please | 18:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Aug 4 18:01:52 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is dolphm. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 18:01 |
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| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 18:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:01 | |
| dolphm | but i'm going to start with a quick reminder | 18:01 |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'keystone' | 18:01 |
| dolphm | #topic Release schedule | 18:02 |
| stevemar | henrynash: hehe | 18:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Release schedule (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:02 | |
| dolphm | We cut liberty-2 last week (yay! good job to all), so we're now staring down liberty-3 and thus FEATURE FREEZE is next up the calendar. | 18:02 |
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| dolphm | #link https://launchpad.net/keystone/+milestone/liberty-2 | 18:02 |
| dolphm | #info Feature freeze is September 1st | 18:02 |
| dolphm | That means we have until the end of the month to land all the featureful bits for Liberty (all blueprints and wishlist bugs). | 18:02 |
| dolphm | #link https://launchpad.net/keystone/+milestone/liberty-3 | 18:02 |
| dolphm | our next milestone target ^ | 18:02 |
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| dolphm | If you have any questions, direct them to morganfainberg ;) because we’re moving on! | 18:02 |
| dolphm | #topic Add type as a filter for /v3/credentials | 18:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Add type as a filter for /v3/credentials (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:03 | |
| dolphm | #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/keystone/+bug/1460492 | 18:03 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1460492 in Keystone "List credentials by type" [Wishlist,In progress] - Assigned to Marianne Linhares Monteiro (mariannelinharesm) | 18:03 |
| dolphm | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/208620/ | 18:03 |
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| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1460492 in keystone "List credentials by type" [Wishlist,In progress] | 18:03 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1460492 in keystone "List credentials by type" [Wishlist,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1460492 | 18:03 |
| dolphm | The question on the agenda is "Does this need a spec since it impacts API?" -- and the answer is, of course, absolutely yes. It's a user-facing change and the API impact must be documented in keystone-specs/api :) | 18:03 |
| dolphm | raildo, samueldmq, tellesnobrega: o/ floor is yours | 18:03 |
| raildo | thanks :) | 18:03 |
| raildo | hi guys, marianne start works with Keystone now, and we are looking for a low-hanging-fruit bug for her and we choose this bug | 18:03 |
| gyee | dolphm, that list doesn't look right, where's the x.509 one? | 18:03 |
| stevemar | gyee: add it to the list | 18:03 |
| raildo | so to fix this bug we just add the 'type' in the hint of credentials, on this patch that dolph put here | 18:04 |
| gyee | stevemar, grasseyass amigo! | 18:04 |
| raildo | since this is an API change, we might need to open a blueprint/spec, but it's fairly small, so maybe not. So we want to know if the keystone core are happy with this way or we need to create a bp/spec for this? | 18:04 |
| raildo | keystone core team* | 18:04 |
| stevemar | raildo: as dolphm says we should open a spec for it | 18:04 |
| dstanek | raildo: see dolphm's answer above :-) | 18:04 |
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| dolphm | raildo: it has an API impact change and so it must be documented in keystone-specs | 18:04 |
| stevemar | there won't be much discussion on it | 18:05 |
| dolphm | raildo: the spec portion of it will naturally be super short | 18:05 |
| lbragstad | I don't think it needs to be super lengthy, but ++ to needing a spec | 18:05 |
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| topol | +++ to needing a spec | 18:05 |
| raildo | dolphm: great :) | 18:05 |
| dolphm | raildo: it's the API documentation which is much more important for the long term | 18:05 |
| lbragstad | ++ | 18:05 |
| raildo | dolphm: ++ | 18:05 |
| * stevemar wonders if we're too pedantic about this... | 18:05 | |
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| stevemar | dolphm: yes ++ on API doc update, the spec part makes me grumble a bit | 18:06 |
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| dstanek | stevemar: about documenting the api or specs? | 18:06 |
| stevemar | dstanek: ^ | 18:06 |
| rodrigods | this is really a tiny fix, ++ to document first in the API spec | 18:06 |
| stevemar | its just a new hint to filter on, but whatever. | 18:06 |
| rodrigods | and we already have the bug to track the change, anyway | 18:06 |
| dstanek | i'd actually be happy with just the api update since the commit message will link to the bug | 18:06 |
| raildo | dolphm: so this will just happend in Mitaka, since we can't propose this for Liberty? | 18:06 |
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| stevemar | raildo: it'll land in liberty | 18:06 |
| dolphm | i'd aim for liberty | 18:07 |
| lbragstad | raildo: we can target it to https://launchpad.net/keystone/+milestone/liberty-3 | 18:07 |
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| raildo | great :) | 18:07 |
| dolphm | any other questions on this? | 18:07 |
| stevemar | dolphm: nope | 18:07 |
| dolphm | #topic Use [extras] for package requirements depending on deployment options | 18:08 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Use [extras] for package requirements depending on deployment options (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:08 | |
| tellesnobrega | thanks | 18:08 |
| dolphm | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/207620/ | 18:08 |
| dolphm | bknudson: o/ floor is yours | 18:08 |
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| dolphm | hrm, bknudson has not made a peep so far this meeting | 18:09 |
| dolphm | bknudson: around? | 18:09 |
| dstanek | that's unfortunate...i'm curious about this one | 18:09 |
| topol | someone try and wake bknudson up with a really bad patch toreview | 18:09 |
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| dolphm | alright, let's move on -- we can loop back if he arrives | 18:09 |
| dolphm | dstanek: me too | 18:09 |
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| topol | let me try and grab him | 18:09 |
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| dolphm | (i'll give topol a minute) | 18:10 |
| gyee | topol, check the men's room to see if he needs a square | 18:10 |
| * dstanek is whistling the Jeopardy theme | 18:10 | |
| lbragstad | he could be doing psirts? | 18:10 |
| bknudson | I finally got back from team lunch | 18:10 |
| dolphm | bknudson: \o/ | 18:11 |
| bknudson | ok, so the [extras] support seems to work | 18:11 |
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| bknudson | so I proposed the changes for ldap | 18:11 |
| bknudson | which were in test-requirements | 18:11 |
| bknudson | and also I think memcache and something else | 18:11 |
| bknudson | so, going forward, we need to consider also other optional requirements | 18:11 |
| dstanek | bknudson: will the requirements get automatically updated in setup.cfg? | 18:12 |
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| bknudson | dstanek: I checked the source for the update tool and it looks like it. | 18:12 |
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| gyee | bknudson, do we gate the extras the same way we do on the requirements | 18:12 |
| bknudson | gyee: yes, I think that's how the tool works | 18:12 |
| dolphm | should we do this in a feature branch to test the infra workflow first? | 18:13 |
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| bknudson | oh, so another example is fernet tokens, since there are specific requirements for those | 18:13 |
| dolphm | or can we look at another project doing this? | 18:13 |
| bknudson | I haven't looked to see if anyone else has actually implemented it yet | 18:13 |
| dstanek | will devstack need to be changed at all to make sure it's requirements are installed? | 18:13 |
| dolphm | bknudson: with more than one desirable 'extra', I assume you can do something like `pip install keystone[ldap,fernet]` ? | 18:14 |
| bknudson | dolphm: yes, that's the format | 18:14 |
| dolphm | but that wouldnt impact config, just deps? | 18:14 |
| bknudson | there's no config change | 18:15 |
| bknudson | cinder is also working on using this: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/203237/ | 18:16 |
| dolphm | cinder is a fantastic use case for this | 18:17 |
| dstanek | bknudson: re: devstack ^ | 18:17 |
| bknudson | I proposed the change to devstack | 18:18 |
| bknudson | devstack was pip install ldappool itself | 18:18 |
| dolphm | bknudson: do you need anything specific from us today, or was this topic just to raise awareness? | 18:18 |
| dstanek | nice | 18:18 |
| bknudson | this is to raise awareness amongst more than just the reviewers who look at these changes | 18:18 |
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| dolphm | if anyone wants to do further reading on extras: | 18:19 |
| dolphm | #link https://pythonhosted.org/setuptools/setuptools.html#declaring-extras-optional-features-with-their-own-dependencies | 18:19 |
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| dolphm | bknudson: ready to move on? | 18:20 |
| bknudson | yep, move on | 18:20 |
| dolphm | #topic State of feature/keystoneauth_integration branch | 18:20 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "State of feature/keystoneauth_integration branch (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:20 | |
| dolphm | bknudson: o/ floor is still yours | 18:20 |
| bknudson | in case others aren't aware | 18:20 |
| bknudson | the feature/keystoneauth_integration branch is broken | 18:20 |
| marekd | why | 18:21 |
| samueldmq | dolphm: remember there is a policy topic :) | 18:21 |
| bknudson | and I was wondering if anybody is willing to look into it | 18:21 |
| dolphm | samueldmq: yes, it's next on the agenda | 18:21 |
| bknudson | tempest fails -- EndpointNotFound: publicURL endpoint for alarming service not found | 18:21 |
| dolphm | samueldmq: although there are no details - please fill in the agenda! | 18:21 |
| bknudson | I have no idea why this is happening on the feature branch and not master | 18:21 |
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| dstanek | samueldmq: i moved it to the end | 18:22 |
| marekd | bknudson: can you paste the link ? | 18:22 |
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| bknudson | so if you're actually interested in the keystoneauth work I'd suggest getting involved in it | 18:22 |
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| dolphm | #link http://logs.openstack.org/83/208583/1/check/gate-tempest-dsvm-neutron-src-python-keystoneclient/aa1fcbb/ | 18:22 |
| bknudson | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/208583/ is an example failing | 18:22 |
| samueldmq | dolphm: done | 18:22 |
| samueldmq | dstanek: thanks | 18:22 |
| bknudson | and my attempt at merging master to the branch fails neutron tempest the same way | 18:23 |
| dolphm | marekd: are you volunteering to investigate? :) | 18:23 |
| marekd | i'd rather not promise anything this week :( | 18:23 |
| gyee | bknudson, alarming service, that monasca? | 18:24 |
| gyee | let me ping them to see | 18:24 |
| bknudson | the errors are in ceilometer | 18:24 |
| marekd | dolphm: http://logs.openstack.org/83/208583/1/check/gate-python-keystoneclient-python27/7ff54a1/console.html this fails due to oauthlib | 18:25 |
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| dolphm | oh wow, i didn't realize we have project monasca and project miniscus | 18:25 |
| marekd | we had it in ksc and it was fixed | 18:25 |
| marekd | dolphm: WHAT?! | 18:25 |
| bknudson | the python errors are known | 18:25 |
| marekd | miniscus? | 18:25 |
| gyee | never heard of miniscus | 18:25 |
| dolphm | marekd: logging as a service | 18:25 |
| bknudson | it's the neutron tempest failure that's not fixed in the merge | 18:25 |
| dolphm | it's mostly abandoned https://github.com/ProjectMeniscus/meniscus | 18:25 |
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| marekd | bknudson: but the link you pasted fails on python | 18:26 |
| ayoung | sorry I'm late | 18:26 |
| bknudson | marekd: yes, I ran an experiment to see if master fails the same way or if it was introduced when I did the merge. | 18:26 |
| marekd | bknudson: the reviews to look into are here: https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:open+project:openstack/python-keystoneclient+branch:feature/keystoneauth_integration,n,z , right? | 18:26 |
| bknudson | the merge is here: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/207267/ | 18:27 |
| bknudson | marekd: yes, you can look at the open merges for the branch... all the newer reviews are failing. | 18:27 |
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| gyee | alarming should be monasca, ceilometer is metering | 18:29 |
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| * marekd soon there will be Linux Kernel as a Service.... | 18:29 | |
| bknudson | gyee: I don't think monasca is running? http://logs.openstack.org/83/208583/1/check/gate-tempest-dsvm-neutron-src-python-keystoneclient/aa1fcbb/logs/ -- or maybe there's no log for it? | 18:29 |
| dstanek | marekd: docker? | 18:29 |
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| marekd | dstanek: along with Kubernetes, covered with OpenStack branded Manila | 18:30 |
| dolphm | i think we're off topic here :) | 18:31 |
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| marekd | sure, sorry | 18:31 |
| gyee | bknudson, yeah, lemme sort it out with the monasca folks | 18:31 |
| bknudson | gyee: ok, thanks | 18:32 |
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| bknudson | ok, we can move on we don't need to debug it here | 18:32 |
| bknudson | just raising awareness in case somebody was concerned about it | 18:32 |
| dolphm | #info feature/keystoneauth_integration is failing gate | 18:32 |
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| dolphm | i assume stevemar and jamielennox would be interested as well - but they're both afk | 18:32 |
| dolphm | so, moving on! | 18:32 |
| dolphm | #topic Centralized policy distribution | 18:32 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Centralized policy distribution (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:33 | |
| dolphm | ayoung, samueldmq: o/ floor is yours | 18:33 |
| samueldmq | alright | 18:33 |
| dolphm | samueldmq: there's no links or anything on the agenda - might want to provide those first | 18:33 |
| samueldmq | specs are under review, all concerns addressed, we need some weight/decision on acceptance | 18:33 |
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| samueldmq | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/197980/ | 18:33 |
| samueldmq | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/134655/ | 18:33 |
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| gyee | samueldmq, that's the stuff you demoed at the midcycle right? | 18:34 |
| ayoung | I can proxy for jamie | 18:34 |
| samueldmq | gyee: yes | 18:34 |
| gyee | lets do this! | 18:34 |
| samueldmq | we need reviews .. we have middleware + oslo.policy code | 18:34 |
| samueldmq | and I am working on the keystone server bit already | 18:34 |
| henrynash | samueldmq: so the thing I hear most of all from people is whether this is a burning issue that needs to be solved now (and hence needs an SFE)…perhaps you could address that issue | 18:34 |
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| samueldmq | dstanek is taking care of adding support to CacheControl at ksclient | 18:34 |
| ayoung | dolphm, since we hhave your attention; does the dynamic policy approach seem right to you? | 18:35 |
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| ayoung | I'd rather hash it out now before we get too far into implementation; | 18:35 |
| dolphm | ayoung: by dynamic, do you mean centralized distribution? | 18:35 |
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| samueldmq | ayoung: I think so, I addressed all his concerns in the specs | 18:35 |
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| samueldmq | dolphm: yes | 18:35 |
| ayoung | the unified stuff kindof dies in committee, and that was based on a dolphm comment at midcycle back in san antonio | 18:35 |
| ayoung | dolphm, yeah, centralized, but also unified | 18:36 |
| dolphm | ayoung: then yes, but i can't speak for deployers | 18:36 |
| ayoung | fair enough..I just want to make sure that we've got a consensus. | 18:36 |
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| henrynash | ayoung: there’s no spec we are votinh on her for unification, is there? I hope not | 18:37 |
| dolphm | what was the outcome of the mailing list discussion? i don't think i ever saw the thread | 18:37 |
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| ayoung | dolphm, one issue, which I know you commented on in code review is the "deleted proejt" issue | 18:37 |
| samueldmq | henrynash: we just targeted the distribution for L | 18:37 |
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| samueldmq | henrynash: which are those 2 specs are about | 18:37 |
| henrynash | samueldmq: ++ | 18:37 |
| dolphm | henrynash: i imagine unification would be an operator decision - nothing to do with the implementation | 18:37 |
| samueldmq | which is what ... | 18:37 |
| ayoung | if we scope everything, what do we do to unlock a resource where we deleted the project in keystone but the remote service didn't get or process the notification | 18:37 |
| dolphm | henrynash: although it'd be great to publish a unified policy file, or a tool to create one | 18:38 |
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| gyee | what does project deletion have anything to do with policies? | 18:38 |
| ayoung | dolphm, ++ provide a unified was my goal. In order to do that, there are lots of nits to knock down | 18:38 |
| david8hu | dolphm, who would be the consumer? | 18:38 |
| ayoung | gyee, policy needs to provide acess to the API in order to delete a proejects rsources | 18:39 |
| dolphm | ayoung: i think services should be cleaning up their own resources in response to deleted project notifications - not some cleanup process making HTTP API calls through an authz layer. | 18:39 |
| ayoung | if I need to get a scoped token, but that project is deleted, I can't get scoped token | 18:39 |
| samueldmq | gyee: yes I think we're off topic ... | 18:39 |
| dolphm | ayoung: so, that example seems like a non-issue to me | 18:39 |
| ayoung | dolphm, agreed, but there is a long way to go until they can do that | 18:39 |
| dstanek | sorry got distracted | 18:39 |
| dstanek | back now | 18:39 |
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| ayoung | and there is always the possibility of a missed notification | 18:39 |
| ayoung | how do we handle in the interim? | 18:39 |
| henrynash | ayoung, dolphm: as you know, I am fully against a unifies policy file…..that doesn’t mean there aren’t other ways (in the future) of provding common rules etc. across the policies of different projects | 18:40 |
| ayoung | henrynash, "Fully against?" | 18:41 |
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| samueldmq | we've had a spec-freeze exception request, spec-freeze time is over and we didn't reach a decision | 18:41 |
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| ayoung | dolphm, so, lets assume for now that there are missed notification etc...the only other option I cansee is "admin role on admin proejct indefault domain can delete anything" | 18:41 |
| samueldmq | should I submit a FFE now ? are cores ok with this feature landing in Liberty? | 18:41 |
| henrynash | ayoung, samueldmq: regardless of the nits and/or specifics we are arguing about…the question here is whether we haev a burning issue that requires an SFE…i.e. is the problem one that causes us to make an exception to our working practices. I support teh centralised approach, I just haven’t seen the evidnce for the urgency | 18:42 |
| dolphm | ayoung: so, that sounds like authorization at the service level -- not specific to any tenant | 18:42 |
| lbragstad | I'd like to see some more buy-in from an operator | 18:42 |
| henrynash | ayoung, sameuldmq: which customers are shouting about the problem | 18:42 |
| ayoung | lbragstad, gyee is going to poperators meetup. He'll proxy | 18:42 |
| gyee | I am attending the ops midcycle | 18:42 |
| samueldmq | henrynash: well, the code is under review already, there are jsut some missing bits | 18:42 |
| samueldmq | henrynash: we just need reviews, nothing more | 18:43 |
| dstanek | i agree with henrynash. there is no reason to rush this | 18:43 |
| henrynash | samueldmq: with respcet, that doen’t answer the question | 18:43 |
| samueldmq | henrynash: we were'nt able to have a single decision on SFE during L2 | 18:43 |
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| samueldmq | :/ | 18:43 |
| ayoung | henrynash, urgency is that we can't seem to make any progress. Either reviews are too big and then sl=plit, or too small and then provide less value...can't win. | 18:43 |
| ayoung | So, we've reduced scope and reduced scope | 18:43 |
| henrynash | ayoung: so why would we do this in a X-3 cycle> | 18:43 |
| henrynash | ? | 18:43 |
| ayoung | and we have it down to "fetch from centralized" as simple as possib;le | 18:43 |
| dstanek | gyee: could you bring it up? i'd love to have some feedback | 18:43 |
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| ayoung | henrynash, I proposed back pre Summit | 18:44 |
| ayoung | this stuff takes time | 18:44 |
| gyee | dstanek, yes, will do | 18:44 |
| ayoung | The win for theoperators, when this is all in, is that they can delegate to their own users the ability to share resources | 18:44 |
| ayoung | If I am a consumer of a company cloud, and I need to share with...say jamielennox who also works here...I should not need to go to the central admin to get him acessto my proejct. All of this is driving toward that | 18:45 |
| david8hu | ayoung, json is still going to be a challenge for deployers. | 18:45 |
| ayoung | david8hu, may that be the worst we have to face | 18:45 |
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| henrynash | ayoung: I know….but we either have festures freezes for a reason, or we don't | 18:46 |
| ayoung | henrynash, this change is in oslo messaging at this point, which was outside the "locked to release" in the past | 18:46 |
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| dolphm | david8hu: there's a conversation on openstack-dev about building a proper UI for policy editing | 18:46 |
| dolphm | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2015-August/071184.html | 18:47 |
| ayoung | henrynash, does "trial and error" count as a reason? We've had it at different points in the cycle in the past. | 18:47 |
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| david8hu | ayoung, debug aspect of things is going to be more challenging than it is today, but it can be address through proper documentation. | 18:48 |
| bknudson | maybe horizon can solve all the issues that dynamic policies is targeting | 18:48 |
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| ayoung | so...can we please make progress on this? | 18:48 |
| david8hu | dolphm, +1, I would love to join that conversation. If you can send me links offline, it will be great. | 18:49 |
| dolphm | david8hu: the link is above | 18:49 |
| henrynash | ayuong: so to introdiuce something as experiemental that seems OK,…again, not sure in an X-3 cycle where we’ll be craming to other already approved items in | 18:49 |
| david8hu | saw it | 18:49 |
| david8hu | thx | 18:49 |
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| ayoung | at least approve the spec for backlog? | 18:50 |
| samueldmq | ayoung: ++ | 18:50 |
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| samueldmq | ayoung: henrynash and if we come with all code implemented in the ffe request, we analyze it apart from the specs approval | 18:50 |
| henrynash | ayoung: sure, that gets my vote…as I say in my comment on teh patch, I support this, just not sure why it needs the urgency of getting into L | 18:50 |
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| samueldmq | dolphm: you agree ^ | 18:52 |
| samueldmq | ? | 18:52 |
| ayoung | henrynash, because if it is in L then people can use it | 18:52 |
| ayoung | and until people use it we don't get feedback | 18:52 |
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| gyee | just download the patch and test drive it, if it worth the money, approve it :) | 18:52 |
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| ayoung | and until we get feedback we are doing ivory tower development | 18:52 |
| amakarov | samueldmq, is it considered ok just to reference another spec? "Please refer to the Keystone Middleware spec" | 18:52 |
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| ayoung | and code that is not in production is like excess inventory | 18:52 |
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| samueldmq | amakarov: yes it is, so I don't need to repeate all the text there | 18:53 |
| dolphm | ayoung: people that are interested will review and test patches | 18:53 |
| samueldmq | amakarov: it was a request from some cores already | 18:53 |
| dstanek | amakarov: yes. i complained that there was too much of the same content in the specs | 18:53 |
| david8hu | ayoung, +1, need ways to get all data points we need. | 18:53 |
| dstanek | i couldn't see what was meant to be the actual change | 18:53 |
| amakarov | samueldmq, dstanek thanks, +1 from me then :) | 18:53 |
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| dolphm | dstanek: ++ | 18:53 |
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| dstanek | if we built it will they come? | 18:54 |
| samueldmq | so yes, I think those specs should be ready to be approved to backlog, since all the concerns from core-reviews were addressed | 18:54 |
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| ayoung | dstanek, unless we build it, they can't come | 18:55 |
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| gyee | dstanek, yes, I bet my beer money on it | 18:55 |
| dstanek | i really do think we need to find an operator that we know will try it because they want it | 18:55 |
| lbragstad | dstanek: ++ | 18:55 |
| dolphm | dstanek: ++ | 18:55 |
| dstanek | gyee: will you have HP start using it in test labs? | 18:55 |
| gyee | dstanek, yes! | 18:55 |
| lbragstad | I just think it will help guide an implementation, that's all | 18:55 |
| david8hu | dstanek, ayoung, need a very good PR person to sell it :) | 18:56 |
| ayoung | dstanek, this is a building block. We can't give them what they really need yet. They might or might not try this, but if we don't get it out there, they certainly won't | 18:56 |
| dolphm | ayoung: you don't need to merge things to master for get feedback from early adopters | 18:56 |
| dstanek | david8hu: no! that means we're doing it wrong | 18:56 |
| ayoung | dolphm, I'm not merging code. I'm trying to get the spec in | 18:56 |
| ayoung | that means agreement on the direction | 18:57 |
| david8hu | dstanek, no one is using the v3 policy api today. I am hoping we can do better this time. | 18:57 |
| gyee | ayoung, we also have the big tent now, just saying :) | 18:57 |
| dstanek | gyee: have you gone through all of the proposals? | 18:57 |
| dstanek | david8hu: then i would question if it was needed :-) | 18:57 |
| gyee | dstanek, you have a pop quiz coming? | 18:57 |
| dolphm | ayoung: are there any early stakeholders for this besides yourself and samueldmq? | 18:57 |
| dstanek | gyee: no, but if you're going to help drive as a sort of 'business owner' you should go through them and see if they are doing what you need | 18:58 |
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| dstanek | dolphm: maybe gyee is a stakeholder | 18:58 |
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| dolphm | gyee: ? | 18:58 |
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| gyee | dstanek,dolphm, yes, I am involved | 18:59 |
| dolphm | gyee: as a developer or from an operations perspective? | 18:59 |
| * gyee puts on his operator hat | 18:59 | |
| * dstanek hears the chanting. 'do it, do it, do it' | 18:59 | |
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| samueldmq | dstanek: o/ | 18:59 |
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| samueldmq | so we get the specs approved and I will come with the ffe request | 19:00 |
| dolphm | gyee: i'm not sure if that's a yes or no | 19:00 |
| samueldmq | then we analyze it next meeting | 19:00 |
| samueldmq | dolphm: ^ sounds good ? | 19:00 |
| gyee | dolphm, as an operator | 19:00 |
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| gyee | eating the dog food | 19:00 |
| ayoung | dolphm, so you are implying that no features are going to go in upstream until they are in active deployment somehwere? | 19:00 |
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| dolphm | ayoung: of course not | 19:01 |
| samueldmq | I think time's over | 19:01 |
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| dolphm | ayoung: samueldmq: but the issue i've seen on this topic for the past 6+ months is a lack of operator interest. if we're overlooking those voices, please point them out / have them speak up in the spec review. | 19:01 |
| gyee | cutting edge, how we roll | 19:01 |
| dolphm | and yes, time. samueldmq: thanks | 19:01 |
| dolphm | #endmeeting | 19:01 |
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| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: third-party)" | 19:01 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Aug 4 19:01:40 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 19:01 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2015/keystone.2015-08-04-18.01.html | 19:01 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2015/keystone.2015-08-04-18.01.txt | 19:01 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2015/keystone.2015-08-04-18.01.log.html | 19:01 |
| dolphm | (apologies for going over) | 19:01 |
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| fungi | np | 19:02 |
| jeblair | dolphm: noted on your account balance! | 19:02 |
| clarkb | hello | 19:02 |
| dolphm | =( | 19:02 |
| fungi | i always enjoy the end of your meetings ;) | 19:02 |
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| pleia2 | o/ | 19:02 |
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| zaro | o/ | 19:02 |
| Clint | o/ | 19:02 |
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| aukhan | good morning | 19:02 |
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| asselin_ | o/ | 19:02 |
| jhesketh | Morning | 19:02 |
| aukhan | o/ | 19:02 |
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| pabelanger | o/ | 19:02 |
| fungi | i am here, but just came back from having a wisdom tooth pulled so holding an ice pack with one hand and typing with the other | 19:03 |
| ianw | o/ | 19:03 |
| fungi | thus, slow typing | 19:03 |
| pleia2 | fungi: ouch | 19:03 |
| jasondotstar | o/ | 19:03 |
| redrobot | o/ | 19:03 |
| Clint | you need some kind of device to clamp it on | 19:03 |
| jeblair | this is a great time to trick fungi into doing things | 19:03 |
| jeblair | #startmeeting infra | 19:03 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Aug 4 19:03:53 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is jeblair. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 19:03 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 19:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:03 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'infra' | 19:03 |
| jeblair | #link agenda https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/InfraTeamMeeting#Agenda_for_next_meeting | 19:04 |
| jeblair | #link previous meeting http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2015/infra.2015-07-28-19.01.html | 19:04 |
| jeblair | #topic Announcements | 19:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Announcements (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:04 | |
| jeblair | #topic Announcements: Project management | 19:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Announcements: Project management (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:04 | |
| jeblair | we've made a lot of changes with how we work recently: | 19:04 |
| jeblair | we write specs for any moderately complex task so we can articulate what we want to accomplish and help reviewers understand our changes | 19:04 |
| jeblair | we have priority efforts so we know where we should look first to keep our most important efforts moving | 19:04 |
| jeblair | and we've radically decentralized with the formation of the council composed of core teams | 19:04 |
| jeblair | however, recently i feel like it's getting harder to see where we are in progressing our work | 19:05 |
| nibalizer | hi | 19:05 |
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| jeblair | this is important because it means an effort could be blocked on something without our realizing how to move it forward | 19:05 |
| jeblair | or you might imagine some dependency on an effort that involves a transition, and it's not clear whether that's happened yet | 19:05 |
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| jeblair | all of this can be addressed with better project management (which when done poorly is just nagging, but when done well helps facilitate communication and progress among a distributed team) | 19:05 |
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| jeblair | so i've asked Clint to help us out with that | 19:05 |
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| jeblair | and in a fit of generosity, he accepted :) | 19:06 |
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| fungi | thanks Clint!!! | 19:06 |
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| jeblair | it's a pretty open ended problem and he'll be looking at how to actually accomplish it | 19:06 |
| mrmartin | o/ | 19:06 |
| jeblair | but i think there's a lot of room for improvement here, and i think it could be really helpful to all of us | 19:06 |
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| jeblair | i've asked him to start by focusing on the priority efforts, and also maniphest (as i believe it will also be helpful in this regard) | 19:06 |
| jeblair | i expect that he may have a lot of questions for folks, so please help him out | 19:06 |
| Clint | i will definitely be asking questions | 19:06 |
| mrmartin | where is Monty? | 19:07 |
| jeblair | Clint: cool :) | 19:07 |
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| jeblair | mrmartin: on a pacific island | 19:07 |
| jhesketh | Clint: sounds great :-) | 19:07 |
| Shrews | monty is vacationing | 19:07 |
| aukhan | :) | 19:07 |
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| jeblair | we should totally have a "where is monty" agenda item; though this isn't it :) | 19:07 |
| Shrews | jeblair: i have considered a cross-platform app | 19:08 |
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| jeblair | any other questions or helpful suggestions for Clint? | 19:09 |
| jeblair | Clint: thanks! | 19:10 |
| * Clint nods. | 19:10 | |
| jeblair | #topic Specs approval | 19:10 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Specs approval (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:10 | |
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| jeblair | #topic Specs approval: Zuul v3 (jeblair) | 19:10 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Specs approval: Zuul v3 (jeblair) (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:10 | |
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| jeblair | #link zuulv3 spec http://specs.openstack.org/openstack-infra/infra-specs/specs/zuulv3.html | 19:10 |
| jeblair | #info zuulv3 spec was approved | 19:10 |
| pabelanger | Niiice | 19:10 |
| pleia2 | huzzah | 19:10 |
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| jeblair | some quick thoughts on that: | 19:11 |
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| jeblair | i'm thinking of revising the spec to suggest that we do development in branches on both zuul and nodepool | 19:11 |
| jhesketh | +1 | 19:11 |
| jeblair | and i'm going to collect the names of folks from the summit etherpad and those who otherwise volunteered to help and see if we can have a huddle and discuss how to proceed | 19:11 |
| jeblair | maybe divvy up some items | 19:12 |
| jeblair | so keep an eye out for that | 19:12 |
| greghaynes | There might be a lot of churn in nodepool with both v3 and builders at the same time | 19:12 |
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| greghaynes | maybe too much rebasing | 19:12 |
| jeblair | greghaynes: with branches we can use merge commits! | 19:12 |
| greghaynes | and branching will make that a bit worse | 19:12 |
| greghaynes | yes, there will be a pretty big delta, its more clear to resolve but still a lot of drift | 19:13 |
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| jeblair | yeah, if we can get builders in soon, that will help | 19:13 |
| jeblair | but if we don't, i'm sure we'll manage | 19:13 |
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| jeblair | #topic Schedule Project Renames | 19:14 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Schedule Project Renames (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:14 | |
| jeblair | i'm going to abuse this topic since i didn't put in what we should really start talking about... | 19:14 |
| jeblair | which is that the "put all new projects in openstack/" resolution was approved | 19:15 |
| jeblair | #link http://governance.openstack.org/resolutions/20150615-stackforge-retirement.html | 19:15 |
| jeblair | so we should work on a plan for dealing with that -- | 19:15 |
| greghaynes | does this mean we are also moving the existing stackforge ones over? | 19:15 |
| jeblair | do we want to perform an automatic mass-migration simultaneously ourselves? | 19:15 |
| greghaynes | oh wow, it does | 19:15 |
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| fungi | i think if we don't move everyone at once, it will be painful | 19:16 |
| jeblair | or let projects do it on their own time-frame, but maybe we batch them so we do moves every 2 months or so...? | 19:16 |
| clarkb | we should try to get a list of those that want to be attic'd as part of hte process too (thinking at least pecan) | 19:16 |
| fungi | i mean, _more_ painful | 19:16 |
| jeblair | oh, also, i would like to end the practice of moving things to the attic | 19:17 |
| clarkb | jeblair: ok, what do we do about pecan then? just hav ethem update that repo with a "use github" message instead? | 19:17 |
| jeblair | i previously had a week preference not to attic things | 19:17 |
| fungi | yeah, attic means more pointless renaming | 19:17 |
| clarkb | (I am happy either way, but we do need to accomodate their concerns) | 19:17 |
| jeblair | but now that i have seen projects moved to the attic with absolutely no indication they are actually dead (complete with transparent github rewrites so their users won't even notice), i have a _strong_ conviction it's a bad idea. | 19:18 |
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| jeblair | clarkb: yeah, so perhaps we let defunct (for whatever reason) projects just stay in stackforge | 19:18 |
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| fungi | if we need a script to push up a boilerplate readme and file deletion change along with a read-only acl update, that's still a much better use of our time to semi-automate | 19:18 |
| jeblair | how about this: | 19:18 |
| jeblair | we ask projects to sign up to be moved to openstack. if they don't sign up, they end up on a list of projects we will make read-only. | 19:19 |
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| jeblair | we publicise that list, and timetable, etc, so people can review it. | 19:19 |
| jeblair | then we move them en-masse, ourselves. | 19:19 |
| clarkb | that seems reasonable | 19:19 |
| jeblair | (and, obviously, do not move the ones on the read-only list) | 19:20 |
| greghaynes | ++ | 19:20 |
| pleia2 | "publicise" may be tricky, but can we poll+send to cores on all the projects? | 19:20 |
| pleia2 | I think some stackforge folks don't read all of openstack-dev | 19:20 |
| clarkb | pleia2: ya that should be easy with a gerrit api script | 19:20 |
| pleia2 | cool | 19:20 |
| nibalizer | will 'read-only' projects be listed anywhere other than gerrit acls? | 19:20 |
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| fungi | should be trivial to build a contact list. oh, i already almost have that written i think | 19:20 |
| nibalizer | a number of people (and me) write scripts like for repo in `gerrit ls-projects | grep infra | grep puppet`; do something; git review; done | 19:21 |
| nibalizer | and inactive/readonly projects in that list screws that up | 19:21 |
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| fungi | #link http://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack-infra/system-config/tree/tools/who-approves.py | 19:21 |
| jhesketh | I wonder if ls-projects can be limited to non-readonly somehow? | 19:21 |
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| jeblair | how about this: i write a message to openstack-dev giving folks general context for governance resolution, since it still hasn't really been publicised, and let people know that we will start planning a future move. then after that, i'll start a thread for planning the actual move, and we can work out logistics and dates. | 19:22 |
| pleia2 | +1 | 19:22 |
| clarkb | jeblair: sounds good to me | 19:22 |
| nibalizer | that sounds good | 19:23 |
| jeblair | nibalizer: maybe we should look into whether we can do something similar with the rest api? | 19:23 |
| jeblair | #action jeblair write message to openstack-dev with overall context for stackforge retirement/move | 19:23 |
| fungi | sounds great. we also all need to remember to remind people who don't read closely that this is a purely cosmetic change. there's no implied governance alteration needed/accompanying it | 19:23 |
| jeblair | #action jeblair start discussion thread about logistics of repo moves | 19:24 |
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| clarkb | its a thing that only really makes sense in the github world | 19:24 |
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| clarkb | and we github so :/ | 19:24 |
| fungi | we're just "getting rid of the word 'stackforge' in our urls" | 19:24 |
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| fungi | (and replacing it with another word we already use a lot) | 19:25 |
| jeblair | yep. and maybe in 6 months or a year, we have a discussion like "hey, so should we remove openstack/ from git.o.o"? :) (would be so much less typing) but that's getting way ahead. | 19:25 |
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| jeblair | okay, i think we know generally how to proceed here, thanks | 19:25 |
| jeblair | #topic Priority Efforts (Migration to Zanata) | 19:25 |
| * fungi would (eventually) love that | 19:25 | |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Priority Efforts (Migration to Zanata) (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:25 | |
| pleia2 | hey | 19:26 |
| jeblair | pleia2: howdy! | 19:26 |
| pleia2 | so I've got UbuConLA, some hiking in the Andes and then the Ops Mid-cycle in the next two weeks (starting tomorrow) | 19:26 |
| pleia2 | I don't want my absence to cause problems for the i18n team and StevenK who are still working on the Zanata stuff | 19:26 |
| pleia2 | on line 200 of https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/zanata-install I listed my outstanding tasks, so I'd like to do a soft hand-off to someone while I'm gone so things keep chugging along | 19:27 |
| clarkb | I can help out there | 19:27 |
| clarkb | I am relatively familiar with how all that fits together so happy to | 19:27 |
| clarkb | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/zanata-install | 19:27 |
| pleia2 | and as always, if I can get folks to review open zanata reviews, it would get StevenK unstuck in a few places https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:open+topic:zanata,n,z | 19:28 |
| jeblair | #info clarkb is pleia2 for next 2 weeks | 19:28 |
| pleia2 | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/206305/ needs another +2 | 19:28 |
| clarkb | I did review the jeepyb change stevenK wrote yesterday | 19:28 |
| clarkb | it looks good | 19:28 |
| pleia2 | great | 19:28 |
| clarkb | need to find the puppet change to run it but that should be straightforwrad | 19:29 |
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| clarkb | will review 206305 today | 19:29 |
| jeblair | clarkb: https://review.openstack.org/208811 | 19:29 |
| jeblair | topic:zanata ftw | 19:29 |
| pleia2 | he also said he'll be working on 203928 this week, so that WIP will move along soon | 19:29 |
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| clarkb | the jeepyb change is under that topic too, perfect | 19:29 |
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| jeblair | clarkb, pleia2: thanks! | 19:30 |
| pleia2 | I think that's it, I'm around for the rest of the day if clarkb needs any more details for anything | 19:30 |
| pleia2 | thanks clarkb :) | 19:30 |
| jeblair | #topic #topic Puppet-httpd replacement of puppet-apache (pabelanger/nibalizer) | 19:31 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "#topic Puppet-httpd replacement of puppet-apache (pabelanger/nibalizer) (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:31 | |
| jeblair | gah | 19:31 |
| jeblair | #topic Puppet-httpd replacement of puppet-apache (pabelanger/nibalizer) | 19:31 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Puppet-httpd replacement of puppet-apache (pabelanger/nibalizer) (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:31 | |
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| nibalizer | this is quite close to being done | 19:31 |
| pabelanger | aye | 19:31 |
| nibalizer | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/198819/ one more | 19:31 |
| nibalizer | to system-config this time, not a module | 19:32 |
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| pabelanger | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/201759/ is for grafana | 19:32 |
| pabelanger | and system-config too | 19:32 |
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| nibalizer | its also worth noting that the existence of a patch like this demonstrates that there is still active configuration inside system-config that hasn't been pushed out into the modules, but thats a different topic | 19:32 |
| jeblair | nibalizer: yeah, some of thot is probably some low-hanging fruit | 19:33 |
| nibalizer | there are a couple follow on activites such as removing if statements that paul had to hack in, as well as finally removing apache 0.0.4 from modules.env | 19:33 |
| nibalizer | but I'm very pleased with how quickly and effectively this went | 19:34 |
| jeblair | (static.o.o is not lhf, but many of the others are) | 19:34 |
| nibalizer | thanks pabelanger | 19:34 |
| pabelanger | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/205696/ is the removal of puppet-apache | 19:34 |
| jeblair | pabelanger, nibalizer: indeed, thanks! :) | 19:34 |
| pabelanger | nibalizer: np, was strightforward | 19:34 |
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| nibalizer | thats all I have on that topic | 19:35 |
| jeblair | cool, thanks | 19:35 |
| jeblair | #topic Restore from backup test (jeblair) | 19:35 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Restore from backup test (jeblair) (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:35 | |
| jeblair | this is a thing we have talked about a bit... but haven't really done | 19:36 |
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| jeblair | i mean, backups are great, but you don't really have them unless you've used them | 19:36 |
| jeblair | when i set some of this up, early on i did some limited restore tests | 19:36 |
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| jeblair | (like log into the server and restore to a dir in /tmp/) | 19:36 |
| jeblair | but that was a long time ago, and not at all systematic, nor has it been done for every host | 19:37 |
| clarkb | when I updated the docs I too restored specific files from backup to test the docs | 19:37 |
| greghaynes | For some context - what all is this a backup of? | 19:37 |
| clarkb | but has all those same issues | 19:37 |
| jeblair | greghaynes: ah great question! | 19:37 |
| jeblair | we perform fairly traditional filesystem backups of major hosts to an off-host location | 19:37 |
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| jeblair | specifically a server in a different cloud account on a different provider | 19:37 |
| jeblair | er | 19:38 |
| jeblair | strike different provider | 19:38 |
| greghaynes | heh, different region? | 19:38 |
| fungi | (eventually different provider) | 19:38 |
| clarkb | yes different region | 19:38 |
| jeblair | yes different region | 19:38 |
| greghaynes | ok, gotcha | 19:38 |
| greghaynes | I am really a fan of daily restore from backup jobs :) | 19:38 |
| jeblair | we used to, but then the 'different provider' did one of the things that the diversity is supposed to protect us from | 19:38 |
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| jeblair | which is, they deleted the host | 19:38 |
| jeblair | greghaynes: no points for guessing which | 19:39 |
| greghaynes | haha | 19:39 |
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| jeblair | but yeah, ideally, we back up to multiple locations that are as diverse from where we actually run these as possible. we are not currently living the dream. | 19:39 |
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| jeblair | at any rate, i put this on the agenda so we could start talking about it and brainstorming... | 19:40 |
| fungi | though it makes a great point. prepare for the loss of your backup server ;) | 19:40 |
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| clarkb | we do have a third region available to us to add diversity | 19:40 |
| jeblair | (we should probably work on replacing the one that was deleted, i think we can now) | 19:41 |
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| fungi | nameless provider seems to have gotten a little more reliable about not randomly deleting our servers | 19:41 |
| jeblair | since i did most of the work designing the system as is, i think i'd like someone else to take the lead on evaluating our preparedness to restore | 19:41 |
| jeblair | i was imagining we design and conduct a periodic drill, but i'm also open to greghaynes suggestion of automated continuous testing... | 19:42 |
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| clarkb | not to derail on specifics, but one related item I think we need to handle better is the we ran out of disk on backup server issue since our backups are append only | 19:42 |
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| jeblair | clarkb: agreed | 19:42 |
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| fungi | i like the automated continuous testing idea if it's feasible (i mean, we already do a lot of that) but would need some way to assure we pay attention to failures | 19:43 |
| jeblair | #link http://docs.openstack.org/infra/system-config/sysadmin.html#backups | 19:43 |
| greghaynes | Yea, im sure its a matter of how much work restoring from backup is. Also, the automatedish setup is only useful if you have a good way to notice when a fialure happens | 19:43 |
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| fungi | periodic drills are something we can have as early as today if we want them, modulo available root sysadmin availability | 19:44 |
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| greghaynes | Going through one is probably a prereq for knowing what all an automated solution would need to do, also | 19:44 |
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| greghaynes | at least for me | 19:44 |
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| jeblair | greghaynes: good point | 19:45 |
| jeblair | so probably we should start with that, and then see whether we think the process is amenable to automation | 19:45 |
| greghaynes | ++ | 19:46 |
| jeblair | at any rate, i'm looking for not-me volunteers for this... think about whether you can help out, and we'll check back in next week | 19:46 |
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| fungi | yep, identifying _what_ we want to check is probably step #1 | 19:46 |
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| jeblair | #topic Puppet apply coverage for fedora21 / centos7 (pabelanger) | 19:47 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Puppet apply coverage for fedora21 / centos7 (pabelanger) (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:47 | |
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| pabelanger | hey | 19:47 |
| jeblair | pabelanger: o/ | 19:47 |
| pabelanger | this one is quick, I have 2 reviews up to add support for Fedora21 and Centos7 for our puppet-apply tests. | 19:47 |
| pabelanger | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/203756/ | 19:47 |
| pabelanger | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/203759/ | 19:47 |
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| pabelanger | they are non-voting jobs right now, but want to kick them to voting for next week | 19:48 |
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| pabelanger | so, just need some help reviewing and approving | 19:48 |
| jeblair | oh hey, they make the jobs go green, respectively | 19:48 |
| jeblair | this seems like a swell idea | 19:49 |
| * clarkb will add to review list today | 19:49 | |
| ianw | while people are thinking about puppet-apply, https://review.openstack.org/205873 & https://review.openstack.org/206319 are about running it with project-config | 19:49 |
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| jeblair | ianw: oh thanks for bringing that up... | 19:49 |
| pabelanger | thats all I had | 19:50 |
| jeblair | i've been thinking about that, and i think there's the idea that it should have an impact, though it doesn't in our current jobs | 19:50 |
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| nibalizer | I think it matters if project_config ever grows a puppet template | 19:51 |
| nibalizer | but right now it does not | 19:51 |
| jeblair | that is to say, it really is related, but our apply jobs may not get far enough in what they do to actually exercise it | 19:51 |
| clarkb | ianw: we pull the ocnfig we are deploying out of project_config so it needs to cogate | 19:51 |
| clarkb | ianw: for noop its less important but anything else would need it | 19:51 |
| nibalizer | and on the subject of puppet: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/206779/ adds a hiera directory to system-config and starts using it | 19:52 |
| clarkb | (just noting that as we do the other beaker based testing) | 19:52 |
| pabelanger | nibalizer: nice, will be checking that out | 19:53 |
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| clarkb | pabelanger: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/203756/ doesn't pass the f21 test | 19:53 |
| ianw | ok, well i'll have to think about it. i think we could skip those jobs for the bulk of project-config changes that are adding/modifying zuul jobs | 19:54 |
| pabelanger | clarkb: right, I don't know why right now. I need to check out dib builds to see what happens. Since it should be the same code for production installs | 19:54 |
| pabelanger | clarkb: I won't be gating that until I figure it out | 19:54 |
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| jeblair | ianw: yeah. i think it's worth some thought. there's definitely a relationship there. we're probably not adequately testing it. if we can, we should. but if it's not possible, then yeah, maybe we should drop the jobs. | 19:55 |
| jeblair | #topic Open discussion | 19:55 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:55 | |
| EmilienM | 1/ could we have reviews on "Add support for backport-potential commit flag" > https://review.openstack.org/#/c/175849/ and 2/ Also "jenkins: implement copy-puppet-logs publisher" (miss +A) > https://review.openstack.org/206693 - thank you | 19:55 |
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| zaro | Gerrit upgrade update, new info in #link https://code.google.com/p/gerrit/issues/detail?id=3424 | 19:56 |
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| pabelanger | So, I know we only have 5mins, but was going to do this on mailing list. Could somebody explain when it is appropiate to make a job (node) reusable? https://github.com/openstack-infra/project-config/blob/master/zuul/openstack_functions.py#L34 | 19:56 |
| clarkb | EmilienM: my initial impression of 175849 is the submitter wrote the commit message should just push to the old branch so that conflicts can be handled | 19:56 |
| zaro | was wondering if you guys can take a look and help me determine if we want to increase diff timeout? | 19:57 |
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| jaypipes | pabelanger: hey, what's the latest status on bringing stackalytics into openstack.org? | 19:57 |
| clarkb | ericsson has independently ocnfirmed our jenkins slave plugin bug | 19:57 |
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| pabelanger | jaypipes: good, I rebased patches today. We're pretty close. I suspect next week I'll have a request up for reviews / approval | 19:58 |
| jaypipes | pabelanger: coolio. let me know if you need any assistance from my end. | 19:58 |
| EmilienM | clarkb: don't you think it's a good first iteration? | 19:58 |
| clarkb | EmilienM: I worry its putting too much effort into a nintractable problem | 19:58 |
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| ianw | pabelanger: i think reusable if it's not running untrusted code? | 19:59 |
| ianw | is any code trusted though... | 19:59 |
| clarkb | its trivial to push the backport if you know you need to push it and it allows you to do the non trivial work of resolving conflicts | 19:59 |
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| pabelanger | ianw: so, what if a job sandboxes code into the workspace, which gets deleted after a job runs? Could that be reusable? | 20:00 |
| pabelanger | ianw: EG: not using sudo | 20:00 |
| EmilienM | clarkb: it's just we want to automate it | 20:00 |
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| EmilienM | clarkb: the "push" part | 20:00 |
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| jeblair | times up; maybe finish these in #-infra | 20:00 |
| clarkb | EmilienM: yes and I am saying you cannot automate it | 20:00 |
| jeblair | thanks everyone! | 20:00 |
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| jeblair | #endmeeting | 20:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: third-party)" | 20:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Aug 4 20:00:50 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 20:00 |
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| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2015/infra.2015-08-04-19.03.html | 20:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2015/infra.2015-08-04-19.03.txt | 20:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2015/infra.2015-08-04-19.03.log.html | 20:00 |
| ttx | Alrighty | 20:01 |
| russellb | o/ | 20:01 |
| dhellmann | o/ | 20:01 |
| * devananda lurks | 20:01 | |
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| jeblair | o/ | 20:01 |
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| ttx | jgriffith, annegentle, lifeless, mordred, flaper87, dtroyer, markmcclain, jaypipes, sdague: around ? | 20:01 |
| markmcclain | o/ | 20:01 |
| sdague | o/ | 20:01 |
| * edleafe also lurks | 20:01 | |
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| ttx | one more for quorum | 20:02 |
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| ttx | jaypipes was here a couple minutes ago | 20:02 |
| * angdraug lurks, too | 20:02 | |
| * russellb happy he beat the courtesy ping this week | 20:02 | |
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| lifeless | ttx: I'm not sorry, need to finish pacing here | 20:02 |
| ttx | #startmeeting tc | 20:03 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Aug 4 20:03:04 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is ttx. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 20:03 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 20:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:03 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'tc' | 20:03 |
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| flaper87 | o/ | 20:03 |
| ttx | Our agenda for today: | 20:03 |
| ttx | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/TechnicalCommittee | 20:03 |
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| ttx | #topic Half-cycle introspection on "things the TC should be working on" | 20:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Half-cycle introspection on "things the TC should be working on" (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:03 | |
| jaypipes | o/ :) | 20:03 |
| ttx | (Timeboxing this to 30 minutes) | 20:03 |
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| * Rockyg lurks 2 | 20:03 | |
| ttx | So... we are at about half of Liberty | 20:03 |
| ttx | I wanted us to take a step back from purely processing what's being thrown at us, and think a bit about things we should be working on fixing or improving | 20:03 |
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| * geoffarnold lurks | 20:04 | |
| ttx | Half of us posted eloquent threads to get elected a few months ago, but I don't feel we followed up with actions everywhere | 20:04 |
| ttx | So... what should we be working on ? And how to make any of it happen in the second half of Liberty ? | 20:04 |
| ttx | Personally I listed three goals: step out of the way, start addressing real issues, push towards both ends of the scale space | 20:04 |
| ttx | We did /some/ stepping out of the way by simplifying the project list reviews, delegating tag maintenance, and accepting project teams at earlier stages of development | 20:05 |
| ttx | (other suggestions on further improving on that is welcome) | 20:05 |
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| * jaypipes was neither eloquent nor remembers self-assigning any action items | 20:05 | |
| ttx | We created workgroups to start addressing real issues, like the Project Team Guide workgroup to address the loss of common culture. | 20:05 |
| ttx | jaypipes: you're special :) | 20:05 |
| * devananda recalls saying lots of aspiration things for others to do :) | 20:05 | |
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| ttx | I'd say we should create more, hopefully as a result of this discussion | 20:05 |
| russellb | i'd like to be further along with tags, but i'm just as capable as anyone helping with that, so i hope to be more active with the next tags WG for the 2nd half | 20:05 |
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| sdague | the thing I'd really like to figure out how to make progress on is service catalog standardization | 20:06 |
| ttx | About pushing towards both ends of the scale space, I think defining the compute starter kit goes a long way to address the small end. | 20:06 |
| annegentle | sdague: +1 | 20:06 |
| devananda | sdague: ++ | 20:06 |
| jaypipes | sdague: ++ | 20:06 |
| sdague | we had a CP session at summit, but it sort of petered out | 20:06 |
| dhellmann | we have several cross-project specs that seem to be languishing | 20:06 |
| ttx | #info we should figure out how to make progress on is service catalog standardization | 20:06 |
| sdague | and there is a ton of weird code all the projects carry around because they barely acknowledge SC exists | 20:06 |
| annegentle | are cross-project specs the "start addressing real issues" area? | 20:06 |
| ttx | dhellmann: yes, we don't seem to have a good dynamic on that | 20:06 |
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| annegentle | or is a better example "help glance land code?" or? | 20:07 |
| ttx | annegentle: not necessarily. For example to address culture issues we set up a workgroup to write the project team guide | 20:07 |
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| ttx | annegentle: yes, that would be a good example | 20:07 |
| annegentle | ttx: ok, yep. And we set up communications working group. | 20:07 |
| sdague | on cross project specs, honestly, I think we should tell folks to only come forward with one if they are running into resistance at the project level and need TC blessing on a thing | 20:07 |
| sdague | I think people are going to cp-spec first and just making a new bottleneck | 20:08 |
| annegentle | sdague: I think they're useful for agreement/details, but yeah could be just a new place to argue? | 20:08 |
| ttx | sdague: tend to agree on that, but people don't discuss cross-project until we raise it at the cross-project meeting, and the spec was a conduit to do that | 20:08 |
| sdague | the whole cors thing probably didn't need to be a cp-spec, for instance. | 20:08 |
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| dhellmann | sdague: well, in at least a couple of cases the projects pushed back asking for broader consensus | 20:08 |
| * Rockyg is going to finish next draft of Error Codes at Ops midcyle (have a working group session) | 20:08 | |
| sdague | dhellmann: ok | 20:08 |
| ttx | if people raised more random topics for the cross-project meetign we wxouldn't need them as much | 20:08 |
| dhellmann | the request-id thing, for example | 20:08 |
| markmcclain | ttx: agreed | 20:09 |
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| sdague | can we take them to the ML instead? because I feel like cp-specs are mostly a piece of gerrit I forget exists, because there is so much gerrit | 20:09 |
| sdague | ttx: yeh, or that | 20:09 |
| annegentle | sdague: there's soo much ML too though. | 20:09 |
| russellb | annegentle: +1 .. | 20:09 |
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| dhellmann | sdague: that has been tried, too, and didn't really help either. | 20:10 |
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| ttx | sdague: Usually the cross-project meeting discussion is the escalation step when the thread goes nowhere | 20:10 |
| ttx | but nowadays people give up on the thread and don't push for cross-project discussion | 20:10 |
| sdague | ok, well, I guess that's a thing. How do we do actual cross project things? | 20:11 |
| ttx | at least when they write a spec, the meeting chair will give the idea some cross-project air time. It's more of a workaround than a solution | 20:11 |
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| markmcclain | + | 20:12 |
| ttx | I had my hands full with the project team guide and next-tags workgroups, but I also wanted to brainstorm on how to make cross-project specs/meeting/discussions more efficient | 20:12 |
| annegentle | sdague: for service catalog, the teams and people are willing to pick up tasks, it's the coordinating/timing that's tougher | 20:12 |
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| markmcclain | yeah cross project communication was one of the things I wanted to work on | 20:12 |
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| dhellmann | ttx, markmcclain : ++ | 20:13 |
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| ttx | #info cross project communication (specs/meeting/discussions) is one of the things we should try to work on | 20:13 |
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| sdague | annegentle: well, it doesn't feel like there is much of a game plan. I guess that's what it's missing, a point person. | 20:13 |
| annegentle | task assignment, how does that work on cross project plans? | 20:13 |
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| ttx | I don't have a magic bullet there, been iterating on various formats for the cross project meeting, and nothing was really successful | 20:14 |
| annegentle | sdague: yeah, agreed. Sadly the etherpad going down was sort of to blame for not having more detail tasks lists out of the summit planning. | 20:14 |
| ttx | At least with the chair rotation I guess the project became more visible | 20:14 |
| ttx | s/project/issue/ | 20:14 |
| dhellmann | yeah, I'm not convinced the meeting is going to solve that problem. | 20:14 |
| sdague | dhellmann: agreed | 20:14 |
| dhellmann | as annegentle and sdague were saying, we need some sort of ownership structure for these things | 20:15 |
| ttx | dhellmann, sdague: I stil want to have a forum for projects to agree with each other without needing to call in the TC | 20:15 |
| flaper87 | sorry, I had to step out a bit | 20:15 |
| * flaper87 quickly reads the backlog | 20:15 | |
| sdague | so, I'm not convinced there is a general solution. But maybe if we pick specific cross project things we want done, we could try to come up with a working pattern in the small based on what works | 20:15 |
| dhellmann | ttx: absolutely, I'm not saying get rid of it, just that it's not enough on its own | 20:15 |
| sdague | service catalog might be a good thing to use as a unit test | 20:15 |
| dhellmann | sdague: right, maybe if we pick one or two specs early in mitaka and focus on those we can see how we can get them done | 20:15 |
| ttx | i.e. if the ML discussion goes nowhere, what option do we have ? Waiting for the next cross-project track at the design summit is not really a fast way | 20:15 |
| flaper87 | With full honesty, I haven't been able to attend cp meetings. Time-wise, it's not a good fit for me | 20:15 |
| sdague | dhellmann: yeh | 20:15 |
| flaper87 | And I feel bad about it but I get why it's that way | 20:16 |
| dhellmann | ttx: we usually take ML silence as consent, no? the problem is the spec author isn't getting any sign-off from the TC, so they can't proceed | 20:16 |
| ttx | flaper87: and I'l admit that since I don't chair all of them anymore, I don't follow them as religiously as before, due to same timing issue | 20:16 |
| ttx | dhellmann: sure, if ML is silent it's an easy call | 20:16 |
| ttx | dhellmann: it's when the discussion doesn't reach consensus that we have a problem | 20:17 |
| ttx | Technical discussions are like lasagna. You need to layer ML threads and IRC discussions to reach consensus | 20:18 |
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| Rockyg | ttx: ooh, nice analogy! | 20:18 |
| * flaper87 wants to bring the cinder HA thread as an example | 20:18 | |
| ttx | flaper87: I was hoping you would bring lasagna instead | 20:19 |
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| flaper87 | ttx: I can do that | 20:19 |
| flaper87 | :D | 20:19 |
| dhellmann | if we look at the open specs: | 20:19 |
| dhellmann | "Uniform public methods for clietns" looks like we have consensus not to do this; | 20:19 |
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| dhellmann | "No global admin" looks like something that isn't a code change so I'm not sure why that's a spec | 20:19 |
| dhellmann | "Return request ID to caller" has *finally* reached consensus, thanks to lifeless pushing on it | 20:19 |
| annegentle | nice work lifeless | 20:20 |
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| dhellmann | "resource retrieving improvement: support change-since filter" has very little input | 20:20 |
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| russellb | dhellmann: that one doesn't seem like a good cp spec | 20:20 |
| sdague | dhellmann: that last one also has api-wg thing bumping around on it which is confusing | 20:20 |
| dhellmann | "Adds starting discussion spec for Service Catalog updates" has some approval, but some changes requested | 20:20 |
| dhellmann | "Replace eventlet + monkey-patching with ??" has languished | 20:20 |
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| dhellmann | without clear consensus or work | 20:21 |
| ttx | Another set of problems is when project teams go wrong in their silo and need an external intervention to be fixed | 20:21 |
| dhellmann | "Add asynchronous user event support to OpenStack" looks like a new project someone should start and not a cp spec | 20:21 |
| ttx | We are staffing up in my team at the Foundation and we hope to be able to spend time diving into specific project teams to assess their current state and suggest solutions | 20:21 |
| dhellmann | "OpenStack wide Error Codes for Log Messages" needs author input, which Rockyg has said she's going to do | 20:21 |
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| * Rockyg yup | 20:22 | |
| dhellmann | "Add OSprofiler spec" has mostly negative feedback on the spec, but I remember a lot of positive support for the idea from the summit | 20:22 |
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| ttx | OK, so I #infoed two areas we could focus on during the second half | 20:23 |
| dhellmann | "Cross-Project Policies" might be replaced by something newer | 20:23 |
| sdague | I suspect that who showed up for osprofiler session was somewhat self selecting, which would explain that split | 20:23 |
| ttx | Any other problems OpenStack is facing right now that we should be helping to fix ? | 20:23 |
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| ttx | sdague: yeah, that would be my take | 20:23 |
| dhellmann | sdague: it wasn't a session, it was conversations throughout the week | 20:23 |
| dhellmann | folks other than boris-42 seemed to think *something* like that was a good idea, if not exactly what he was proposing | 20:24 |
| annegentle | honestly, for me, it's a couple of things: 1. sprawl causing difficulty figuring out where to focus, and 2. events like mid-cycles and 2 summits a year causing interruptions | 20:24 |
| sdague | so, I do get that people seem to not want stuff on the mailing list - but I feel like one of the reasons the cross project efforts get gummed up is we don't have a project wide discussion forum any more in any format | 20:24 |
| sdague | so there is no where to synchronize | 20:24 |
| russellb | no, i still think ML is best | 20:25 |
| russellb | it's the most inclusive place to discuss | 20:25 |
| annegentle | so I have this gut feeling that the midcycles are valuable for teams but offset from summits, where cross-project discussions happen. | 20:25 |
| dhellmann | "most inclusive"? | 20:25 |
| ttx | sdague: should definitely be discussed on ML first and a spec written only of necessary | 20:25 |
| russellb | easiest to participate | 20:25 |
| russellb | compared to irc meetings, where TZ is a problem | 20:25 |
| ttx | if* | 20:25 |
| annegentle | asynchronous is easier to participate in | 20:25 |
| flaper87 | The problem with the ML is that discussions *always* digress | 20:26 |
| flaper87 | keeping them on track is really hard | 20:26 |
| ttx | flaper87: maybe we should push back on digressions | 20:26 |
| sdague | flaper87: so, can we fix that problem, calling people out for going off topic? | 20:26 |
| ttx | like off-topic, start your own thread | 20:26 |
| clarkb | there are also too many of them to follow at one time | 20:26 |
| jeblair | yes, it is hard, because everyone wants to have their say | 20:26 |
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| clarkb | its easier to be focused in a thing that looks like a meeting | 20:26 |
| flaper87 | sdague: I believe we do already but we're too many :P | 20:26 |
| jeblair | and yeah, i think the only solution to that is to try to change the culture and push on digressions | 20:26 |
| Rockyg | clarkb: ++ | 20:26 |
| flaper87 | I don't see that issue as a blocker for using ML | 20:26 |
| flaper87 | but it's a real issue | 20:27 |
| jeblair | it's a lot of work | 20:27 |
| flaper87 | it is | 20:27 |
| dhellmann | so are we suggesting that we not use the specs repo any more and push all of these discussions back to the list? | 20:27 |
| annegentle | no no I think specs repo is super valuable | 20:27 |
| ttx | dhellmann: I think we are suggesting people interested in discussing that should have a longer meetign about it | 20:28 |
| sdague | dhellmann: honestly, I would suggest that | 20:28 |
| annegentle | ttx: how do you ensure an outcome, have TC facilitators? | 20:28 |
| russellb | i think specs are valuable for cases where clear project-wide consensus needs to be clearly documented | 20:28 |
| annegentle | You need a decision maker otherwise people just flail for a while. | 20:28 |
| flaper87 | I would prefer doing both. We need a place where the final consensus gets written down and reviewed | 20:28 |
| annegentle | russellb: agreed | 20:28 |
| russellb | i need to be better at looking at them though ... | 20:28 |
| ttx | annegentle: we coudl reuse the workgroup foirmat and have some cross-project comm workgroup | 20:28 |
| russellb | sounds like that applies to several people | 20:28 |
| sdague | russellb: right, but it's much easier to sketch on the list or in an etherpad | 20:29 |
| russellb | yep | 20:29 |
| flaper87 | but we shouldn't be using the CP repo to decided whether we should all go and drink tea together in tokyo | 20:29 |
| dhellmann | ttx: would it be better to have a wg per initiative? | 20:29 |
| Rockyg | I think what ttx means with *f* a spec is needed is that once the discussion brings out the key issues/approaches, if a spec is still needed for action, write it, but it will start more focused and be easier to get attention on it to complete its process | 20:29 |
| sdague | ttx: so I think the issue is that there are meeting people, and there are ML people. | 20:29 |
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| annegentle | sdague: stylistic preferences, yeah... | 20:30 |
| sdague | honestly, if we are talking about something that requires real feedback, I'm not going to be able to do much of that in an interactive meeting. It needs digestion | 20:30 |
| ttx | I do both | 20:30 |
| ttx | (lasagna) | 20:30 |
| annegentle | sdague: but again points to a need for "final" decision making | 20:30 |
| annegentle | arbitration, whatever it is. | 20:30 |
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| ttx | OK, time is mostly up, what's the next step on that ? Workgroup meeting ? ML thread ? | 20:30 |
| flaper87 | I get there are meeting people but, as much as I hate emails, we need emails. We can't pretend folks interested are going to chase on IRC logs to know what's happening | 20:31 |
| sdague | annegentle: sure, if concensus doesn't emerge. But, honestly, the reason SC is stalled is not because it's controversial | 20:31 |
| * flaper87 sent a similar email referencing Glance a couple of weeks ago | 20:31 | |
| ttx | I want to make sure we discuss it again before mid-Mitaka | 20:31 |
| flaper87 | ML brings more attention and it's for async communications | 20:31 |
| annegentle | sdague: yeah, service catalog is more about chasing the final outcomes | 20:31 |
| sdague | annegentle: honestly, I don't know it's even that :) but maybe if we identify a point person it would be helpful. | 20:32 |
| dhellmann | ttx: ideally, the TC would identify some important initiatives and help push, if not drive, them, in whatever forum. I'm not convinced the forum is the problem, per se. | 20:32 |
| annegentle | sdague: yeah, I feel like it should have been me, but I haven't chase | 20:33 |
| annegentle | chased | 20:33 |
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| ttx | so.. keep using ML+Specs and cross-project meetings the way we currently do ? | 20:33 |
| dhellmann | I think it's a much bigger issue that projects look at someone trying to do something across the whole community and say, "I'll wait for some other folks to sign on so I know that's something real I have to pay attention to." | 20:33 |
| ttx | anyway, time is up. If someone has a suggestion for change, I guess step 1 is a ML thread | 20:33 |
| sdague | so, vishy said a great thing in Atlanta, which is that anything that needs to get done needs 1 person in point | 20:33 |
| flaper87 | dhellmann: ++ | 20:33 |
| annegentle | ttx: I feel like there's something else about midcycles and inperson meetings | 20:33 |
| sdague | because a group tends to assume someone else is doing it | 20:34 |
| annegentle | sdague: ayup | 20:34 |
| Rockyg | dhellmann, ++ | 20:34 |
| dhellmann | sdague: sometimes the person with the idea isn't the right person to make that happen and needs help, and I think that's where we're failing right now | 20:34 |
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| sdague | so I think basically anything we sanction out of the TC as important should have step 0, determine point person | 20:34 |
| annegentle | such as, if you wanted to get attention for service catalog across projects you'd have to go to a half dozen midcycles | 20:34 |
| dhellmann | sdague: definitely | 20:34 |
| sdague | annegentle: honestly, I don't think so | 20:34 |
| annegentle | sdague: ok, whew :) | 20:34 |
| ttx | ok, moving on | 20:35 |
| annegentle | timebox! | 20:35 |
| russellb | needing a point person applies to just about anything anywhere | 20:35 |
| ttx | we have a few items to cover | 20:35 |
| ttx | #topic Adds Debian & derivatives packaging to OpenStack | 20:35 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Adds Debian & derivatives packaging to OpenStack (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:35 | |
| ttx | #link https://review.openstack.org/185187 | 20:35 |
| russellb | i had a mission statement concern, but generally +1 | 20:35 |
| ttx | This was recently updated | 20:35 |
| russellb | not sure how baked this is, but whatever, the rpm one wasn't super baked either | 20:36 |
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| ttx | that mission statement concern is valid | 20:36 |
| russellb | mission statement seems to encode a gating strategy that i'm not sure i agree with | 20:37 |
| sdague | russellb: yeh, agree | 20:37 |
| ttx | question is, do we require than it's changed to merge it, or should we just propose an adjustment | 20:37 |
| annegentle | russellb: ah good point | 20:37 |
| ttx | as a subsequent change | 20:37 |
| sdague | I'm fine if the team wants to get there, but I don't think the TC should stamp that as approved direction | 20:37 |
| russellb | i'd rather it be changed before approving | 20:37 |
| russellb | personally | 20:37 |
| ttx | that's fair | 20:37 |
| jeblair | russellb, sdague: agreed | 20:37 |
| jaypipes | zigo: here? | 20:37 |
| jeblair | would +1 without the long-term goal | 20:38 |
| jaypipes | russellb: yep, agreed. plus I think there's a typo in there. | 20:38 |
| ttx | Let's move on and come back to this if zigo appears | 20:38 |
| jaypipes | russellb: I don't think deb-mural is the right deliverable name ;) | 20:38 |
| russellb | heh | 20:38 |
| ttx | murallo | 20:38 |
| jeblair | jaypipes READ the patch! | 20:38 |
| russellb | jeblair: woah | 20:38 |
| russellb | i read the top part :) | 20:38 |
| ttx | #topic Kolla application for Big Tent | 20:39 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Kolla application for Big Tent (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:39 | |
| ttx | #link https://review.openstack.org/206789 | 20:39 |
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| ttx | This one looks pretty straightforward, especially with all the other packaging initiatives in | 20:39 |
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| russellb | i've followed the OSAD concerns | 20:39 |
| jaypipes | jeblair: ? | 20:39 |
| russellb | but i'm really not personally too concerned with overlap at this level | 20:39 |
| russellb | jaypipes: past tense | 20:39 |
| russellb | jaypipes: joking that you actually read it | 20:40 |
| jaypipes | ahhh | 20:40 |
| jeblair | jaypipes: oh wow sorry about that :) | 20:40 |
| jaypipes | sorry, missed that :) | 20:40 |
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| jeblair | stupid enlish | 20:40 |
| russellb | heh yeah, alternative reading was very different :) | 20:40 |
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| ttx | mainconcern raised is about duplication of scope with the OpenStackAnsible project | 20:40 |
| ttx | Looks like we need to investigate that late conern a bit deeper | 20:41 |
| sdake | ttx: it is true they are similar problems (deployment) but take radically different approaches to achieving the goal | 20:41 |
| jaypipes | ttx: yes, though I raised that concern on patch 1, and sdake seems to have answered the question. the answer might not be amenable to kevin carter and justin shepherd, but it is an answer. | 20:41 |
| patchbot | jaypipes: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/1/ | 20:41 |
| russellb | this would not be the first deployment overlap | 20:41 |
| jaypipes | ty patchbot. | 20:42 |
| russellb | meh | 20:42 |
| dhellmann | sdague: can you summarize the differences? | 20:42 |
| sdake | yes I have a list of 11 items if you have time dhellmann :) | 20:42 |
| dhellmann | sdague: well, is it written down somewhere I just might not have seen, yet? :-) | 20:42 |
| russellb | sdake: i think it'd be good to put it on the review for the record | 20:42 |
| sdake | Kolla manages the container configuration outside the container, whereas OSAD manages the configuration by connecting to the SSH process in a container to change the configuration. | 20:42 |
| flaper87 | russellb: ++ | 20:42 |
| sdake | russellb yes I asked in the review if the tc would like to see it | 20:42 |
| sdake | can add er in | 20:42 |
| russellb | sdake: yes i'd like to see it :) | 20:42 |
| annegentle | sdake: yes, please | 20:43 |
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| zaneb | I personally don't care if it's a duplicate of the openstack-ansible deployment process, as long as the containerisation part is not tightly coupled to it | 20:43 |
| sdake | will do | 20:43 |
| dhellmann | ++ | 20:43 |
| ttx | OK, let's wait for that and we'll gather votes later | 20:43 |
| jaypipes | zaneb: did you see my last comment on the review? | 20:43 |
| sdague | yeh, for once, I'm 100% in agreement with zaneb :) | 20:43 |
| ttx | Although it already has 7 votes | 20:43 |
| sdake | the containerization part is not tighly coupled | 20:43 |
| zaneb | sdague: :D | 20:43 |
| russellb | ttx: yeah, but i think we owe the concern a bit more air time | 20:44 |
| sdake | my concern with separate repos is it would make dev harder | 20:44 |
| sdague | I feel like we specifically opened up for a lot of deployement solutions | 20:44 |
| sdake | since they are loosly coupled | 20:44 |
| dhellmann | yeah, I'm not concerned about overlap, but I would like to understand the issue more | 20:44 |
| sdague | and ansible doesn't get a global lock on a space there | 20:44 |
| ttx | To me it's an openstack team. The fact that its container approach is not the same as OSAD is similar to DEB and RPM not being the same. | 20:44 |
| jeblair | this seems to be a good "don't pick winners" thing | 20:44 |
| jaypipes | sdake: yeah, understood. it was more a brainstorming question than anything else.. | 20:44 |
| dhellmann | yeah | 20:44 |
| ttx | jeblair: yes | 20:44 |
| annegentle | it's a team definition to me as well | 20:45 |
| jaypipes | sdague: since puppet and the chef cookbooks follow a separate repo pattern, IIRC. | 20:45 |
| sdake | jaypipes I will answer in the review for permanent record ;) | 20:45 |
| ttx | I'm fine with approving now. I just want to give everyone a chance to retract their vote based on recent developments | 20:45 |
| jaypipes | sdague: np :) | 20:45 |
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| russellb | i don't plan to retract | 20:45 |
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| ttx | I don't either | 20:45 |
| ttx | if everyone is fine with their vote there, let's just approve it now | 20:45 |
| annegentle | me neither | 20:45 |
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| * flaper87 neither | 20:46 | |
| russellb | to reiterate, i'm *much* more concerned about overlap as we get closer to the core infrastructure, say, something in the compute starter kit | 20:46 |
| dhellmann | wfm, maybe sdake can still post that link though | 20:46 |
| ttx | russellb: same here | 20:46 |
| sdake | dhellmann I have to actions - answer jaypipes q and your q | 20:46 |
| sdake | to/two | 20:46 |
| russellb | let the deployment approach flowers bloom | 20:46 |
| ttx | dhellmann: agreed, can be done async | 20:46 |
| sdague | russellb: ++ | 20:46 |
| dhellmann | sdake: great, thanks | 20:46 |
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| jaypipes | russellb: I'm predominantly (only?) concerned about overlap on RESTful API functionality. | 20:46 |
| russellb | jaypipes: *nods* another good way to look at it | 20:47 |
| sdague | I'm actually kind of disappointed in the ansible team for trying to throw that block in there | 20:47 |
| * ttx moves on to next topic while we wait for the info to be posted | 20:47 | |
| russellb | though i'm probably more concerned about some APIs than others | 20:47 |
| ttx | #topic ATC: Add Cathy Zhang as Neutron ATC | 20:47 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "ATC: Add Cathy Zhang as Neutron ATC (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:47 | |
| russellb | anyway | 20:47 |
| ttx | #link https://review.openstack.org/207136 | 20:47 |
| ttx | I think this is straightforward, but we still require those to be voted on by the TC | 20:47 |
| ttx | Last time I looked it was still missing a couple of votes | 20:47 |
| russellb | this one seems harmless, though likely unnecessary | 20:47 |
| jaypipes | russellb: http://foaas.com? | 20:47 |
| jaypipes | :P | 20:47 |
| ttx | actually missing 3 | 20:47 |
| russellb | jaypipes: the best API there is | 20:47 |
| dhellmann | there was some question of whether it was needed, but I think we should approve it anyway | 20:47 |
| jaypipes | hehe | 20:47 |
| ttx | vote on it and I'll approve it. Object now if you disagree | 20:47 |
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| ttx | #topic Feature deprecation / config deprecation policy tags | 20:48 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Feature deprecation / config deprecation policy tags (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:48 | |
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| sdague | ttx: right, so she's author on - https://review.openstack.org/#/c/192933/ | 20:48 |
| ttx | #undo | 20:48 |
| openstack | Removing item from minutes: <ircmeeting.items.Topic object at 0xa3b8fd0> | 20:48 |
| sdague | so I guess I'm confused why extra atc is needed | 20:48 |
| ttx | sdague:oh, then we can abandon it | 20:48 |
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| ttx | sdague: ah hm. Co-authors still need to be added | 20:48 |
| sdague | https://review.openstack.org/207136 references the reason for her being atc was working on that spec | 20:48 |
| sdague | she's not the co-author, she's the author | 20:49 |
| russellb | true | 20:49 |
| russellb | maybe some previous rev she was co-author? | 20:49 |
| sdague | that's what git will show | 20:49 |
| russellb | there's 2 people that keep switching ownership of patches in that repo | 20:49 |
| dhellmann | why did she approve her own spec? | 20:49 |
| ttx | Hmm. do we look into authors or owners... | 20:49 |
| dhellmann | is that the same cathy? | 20:49 |
| annegentle | aren't spec patches showing up as ATC work? | 20:49 |
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| russellb | dhellmann: there was a thread about that, yes | 20:49 |
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| russellb | some people upset about it, but i think it's been discussed and addressed | 20:50 |
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| mestery | russellb dhellmann: Ack on that, we scolded her and she apologized. :) | 20:50 |
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| jeblair | ttx: i believe owner | 20:50 |
| markmcclain | right should be as settled as it will be for now | 20:50 |
| jeblair | fungi: ^? | 20:50 |
| dhellmann | mestery, russellb : ok | 20:50 |
| ttx | if we look at owners then probably should still be added manually | 20:51 |
| ttx | and it doesn't hurt anyway | 20:51 |
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| sdague | jeblair: oh, it does gerrit owner query, not a git query? | 20:51 |
| russellb | right, not git | 20:51 |
| russellb | checks gerrit db | 20:51 |
| sdague | oh, never mind then | 20:51 |
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| ttx | #topic Feature deprecation / config deprecation policy tags | 20:51 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Feature deprecation / config deprecation policy tags (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:51 | |
| ttx | Those come from the "next tags" workgroup. The first one is about feature/API deprecation policies: | 20:51 |
| ttx | #link https://review.openstack.org/207467 | 20:51 |
| ttx | assert:features-always-supported asserts that you won't deprecate anything ever | 20:51 |
| ttx | assert:features-follow-deprecation asserts that you follow a predictable, reasonable deprecation policy | 20:52 |
| ttx | The latter is designed to match the current "default" deprecation policy we had for integrated projects in the past | 20:52 |
| ttx | I may have gotten the timeline wrong. If a feature is marked deprecated during the L cycle, when at the very minimum should we allowed to remove it under that policy ? | 20:52 |
| ttx | start of the M cycle, or start of the N cycle ? | 20:52 |
| dhellmann | is the former provided for completeness? it doesn't seem very realistic. | 20:52 |
| russellb | does any project follow "always-supported" ? | 20:52 |
| ttx | russellb: good question. I heard swift claim it | 20:52 |
| russellb | bold claim | 20:52 |
| annegentle | at the release of the N deliverable I believe? | 20:52 |
| annegentle | (that is, it's a year I thought) | 20:53 |
| ttx | maybe we could replace that with a longer deprecation policy | 20:53 |
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| russellb | seems like "always-supported" is just "follow-deprecation" without any plan to exercise the deprecation flow | 20:53 |
| dhellmann | annegentle: "at" meaning "in" or "after"? :-) | 20:53 |
| sdague | annegentle: most projects have been doing single cycle deprecation | 20:53 |
| * jaypipes personally needs a bit more time to think on these. I like the idea behind them. just want to Gandalf-ponder on them a bit. | 20:53 | |
| jeblair | stepping way back -- is this valuable as a choice? | 20:53 |
| flaper87 | jaypipes: ++ | 20:53 |
| jeblair | would it be better to establish a project-wide deprecation policy? | 20:53 |
| annegentle | dhellmann: when cloud consumers could possibly use the API capability | 20:54 |
| ttx | jeblair: some projects will prefer not to assert any deprecation policy and move fast | 20:54 |
| annegentle | "in" the released release :) | 20:54 |
| ttx | jeblair: but yes, that could be an option | 20:54 |
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| dhellmann | annegentle: so something added in M could be removed in N? | 20:54 |
| annegentle | dhellmann: nope! | 20:54 |
| ttx | please comment on the review, no time to solve it today | 20:54 |
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| ttx | The other review up is about config file options deprecation: | 20:54 |
| sdague | so, honestly, I'm not sure this is going to work as a tag | 20:54 |
| ttx | #link https://review.openstack.org/207584 | 20:54 |
| annegentle | something added in M, released in M, could not be removed until the release of O | 20:54 |
| sdague | because there are a lot of specific situations | 20:54 |
| jeblair | ttx: k, thanks. even this brief discussion was helpful. :) | 20:55 |
| annegentle | but maybe I'm too conservative? | 20:55 |
| ttx | (not sure we need to separate config file options from user-visible features/APIs) | 20:55 |
| dhellmann | annegentle: we need to come up with a clear way to say that :-) | 20:55 |
| sdague | and it feels like a guidance document might be better | 20:55 |
| annegentle | dhellmann: ayup | 20:55 |
| russellb | ttx: i think it's valuable, REST API changes are a bigger deal than config file stuff IMO | 20:55 |
| ttx | russellb: ok | 20:55 |
| annegentle | I have to head out, sorry, comms ideas in flaper87's capable hands | 20:55 |
| annegentle | russellb: yeah | 20:55 |
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| russellb | REST API changes the most important to establish clear policy on | 20:55 |
| dhellmann | sdague: isn't the tag a guidance document, with the application of the tag indicating the projects that are following the guidance? | 20:56 |
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| ttx | please follow-up on review | 20:56 |
| ttx | OK, skipping workgroup reports for today and jumping to open discussion | 20:56 |
| ttx | #topic Open discussion | 20:56 |
| sdague | dhellmann: maybe, honestly, for deprecation I'd expect a lot more guidance | 20:56 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:56 | |
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| ttx | About topic tagging for governance reviews, I posted a question at: | 20:56 |
| ttx | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-tc/2015-July/001005.html | 20:56 |
| zaneb | sdague: but there is a point at which a project moves from 'we will break everything' to 'we will try to maintain orderly deprecation'. usually it's 1.0. but we need _some_ way of calling that out | 20:56 |
| ttx | Any preference ? | 20:56 |
| ttx | zaneb: ++ | 20:57 |
| ttx | Also.. next week I'll be coming back from vacation and won't be able to prepare for the meeting. | 20:57 |
| jeblair | ttx: i like your inverted suggestion | 20:57 |
| dhellmann | sdague: sure, maybe suggest some details to be added | 20:57 |
| ttx | Does anyone want to pick it up and chair it, or shall we just skip for one week ? | 20:57 |
| russellb | i think i may be traveling next week | 20:57 |
| flaper87 | There'll be a tc post this week | 20:58 |
| ttx | I prefer to skip since I won't be around to babysit anyone to chair, but if someone wants it, they can run with it :) | 20:58 |
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| sdague | zaneb: well from my experience from the tempest side, most of the projects don't deprecate in an orderly manner | 20:58 |
| flaper87 | There are enough topics for a new one | 20:58 |
| ttx | OK, Cathy's extra atc review has enough votes on it, I'll approve it now | 20:58 |
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| ttx | Will approve the Kolla one as soon as Steve pushes his 11 point explanation | 20:59 |
| dhellmann | ttx: I'd be ok with skipping if it doesn't seem like we have any pressing business. | 20:59 |
| zaneb | sdague: heh, ok :) that's another issue to tackle I guess | 20:59 |
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| fungi | oops, sorry, stepped away... yes, it's gerrit change owner that we use for elections and summit passes | 20:59 |
| flaper87 | sdague: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EYKdmo9Rg2s :D | 20:59 |
| sdake | ttx still typing :) | 20:59 |
| ttx | dhellmann: no pressing things. Mostly tags that can be reviewed on gerrit | 20:59 |
| russellb | thanks sdague | 20:59 |
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| russellb | err sdake | 20:59 |
| ttx | and I won't be making new revisions this week | 20:59 |
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| sdake | ttx i was incorrect it is 9 points | 21:00 |
| ttx | ok, let's tentatively skip it. Feel free to conspire into holding it while I'm away | 21:00 |
| russellb | sdake: 9?! that changes everything | 21:00 |
| ttx | and approved. | 21:00 |
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| sdake | ttx sorry 10 :) | 21:01 |
| ttx | Alright, have a great week. | 21:01 |
| ttx | #endmeeting | 21:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: third-party)" | 21:01 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Aug 4 21:01:12 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 21:01 |
| russellb | sdake: you better stretch it to 11 | 21:01 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2015/tc.2015-08-04-20.03.html | 21:01 |
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| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2015/tc.2015-08-04-20.03.txt | 21:01 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2015/tc.2015-08-04-20.03.log.html | 21:01 |
| ttx | markmcclain: floor is yours | 21:01 |
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| markmcclain | courtesy ping PTLs: adrian_otto boris-42 bswartz david-lyle devananda dims dtroyer emilienm flaper87 gordc hyakuhei isviridov | 21:01 |
| markmcclain | courtesy ping PTLs: j^2 jeblair johnthetubaguy kiall loquacities mestery morganfainberg mtreinish nikhil_k notmyname rakhmerov | 21:01 |
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| notmyname | here | 21:01 |
| markmcclain | courtesy ping PTLs: redrobot SergeyLukjanov slagle SlickNik smelikyan stevebaker thingee thinrichs ttx | 21:01 |
| markmcclain | #startmeeting crossproject | 21:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Aug 4 21:01:49 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is markmcclain. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 21:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 21:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: crossproject)" | 21:01 | |
| morganfainberg | o/ | 21:01 |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'crossproject' | 21:01 |
| mtreinish | o/ | 21:01 |
| stevebaker | \o | 21:01 |
| johnthetubaguy | o/ | 21:01 |
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| elmiko | o/ | 21:01 |
| * morganfainberg lurks mostly though. | 21:02 | |
| jokke_ | o/ | 21:02 |
| flaper87 | morganfainberg: :P | 21:02 |
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| bknudson | hi | 21:02 |
| markmcclain | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/CrossProjectMeeting | 21:02 |
| tpatil | Hi | 21:02 |
| NobodyCam | o/ | 21:02 |
| mtreinish | morganfainberg: that's all I normally do too :) | 21:02 |
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| markmcclain | Light agenda for this week | 21:02 |
| markmcclain | #info Meeting chairs needed for next week (August 11th) and three remaining open | 21:02 |
| markmcclain | dates. | 21:02 |
| * Rockyg is still lurking (mostly) | 21:02 | |
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| * edleafe is still lurking too | 21:03 | |
| * geoffarnold ditto | 21:03 | |
| * jokke_ will look the dates | 21:03 | |
| ttx | I can't take it next week | 21:03 |
| markmcclain | anyone available for next week? | 21:03 |
| dhellmann | o/ | 21:03 |
| * bknudson lurks | 21:03 | |
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| mestery | o/ | 21:03 |
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| jokke_ | dhellmann: seems to have just volunteered ;) | 21:03 |
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| elmiko | hehe | 21:04 |
| edleafe | jokke_: +1! | 21:04 |
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| dhellmann | jokke_: no, no, no | 21:04 |
| jokke_ | :P | 21:04 |
| edleafe | dhellmann: aw, don't be shy! | 21:04 |
| mestery | I can do it next week markmcclain | 21:04 |
| markmcclain | mestery: thanks! | 21:04 |
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| mestery | markmcclain: yw :) | 21:04 |
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| Rockyg | dhellmann, you dodged a bullet! | 21:05 |
| markmcclain | haha... moving on | 21:05 |
| ttx | that one was close | 21:05 |
| markmcclain | #topic Horizontal Team Announcements | 21:05 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Horizontal Team Announcements (Meeting topic: crossproject)" | 21:05 | |
| ttx | On the release management side, not a lot of things this week | 21:05 |
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| ttx | We've been starting to discuss how to actually implement continuous releasing of stable point releases, in two -dev threads: | 21:05 |
| ttx | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2015-August/071188.html | 21:05 |
| ttx | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2015-August/071189.html | 21:06 |
| dhellmann | edleafe: I've had my turn. | 21:06 |
| ttx | Chime on those if you have an opinion on the topic | 21:06 |
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| ttx | taking a week off starting now so don't expect me to follow those threads closely! | 21:06 |
| fungi | yes, i worry we don't ever get much input from downstream package maintainers and operators/deployers on topics like this until we enact them | 21:06 |
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| fungi | and then end up with a small-scale revolt on our hands because we changed something they depended on in their workflow | 21:07 |
| Rockyg | maybe post contents or summary to the operator's list with a request to discuss? | 21:07 |
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| fungi | i'd love to just stop having stable point releases at all in liberty and beyond, which was the original proposal, but what little feedback we got from downstream consumers was that they didn't want to lose whatever nonexistent signaling they actually thought they were getting from those | 21:08 |
| jokke_ | we should get shout of discussions like these advertised on the every Friday spam ;) | 21:08 |
| jokke_ | fungi: ++ | 21:08 |
| fungi | jokke_: yep, i passed those threads along to the person writing the weekly newletter earlier today | 21:08 |
| jokke_ | gr8 | 21:08 |
| fungi | so that might help raise visibility some | 21:09 |
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| edleafe | ttx: enjoy! | 21:09 |
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| markmcclain | Any other horizontal announcements? | 21:10 |
| johnthetubaguy | ttx: I quite like that increment on every commit, its simple | 21:10 |
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| Rockyg | johnthetubaguy, ++ | 21:11 |
| jokke_ | johnthetubaguy: and easily automated | 21:11 |
| ttx | clarkb was arguing it would pollute the ref space | 21:12 |
| fungi | (i don't know about "easily") | 21:12 |
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| johnthetubaguy | also agreed with fungi about the need to get the package maintainers involved | 21:12 |
| jokke_ | fungi: well easier than the other models | 21:12 |
| fungi | mostly just don't want to waste time implementing something complex they don't need/won't use anyway | 21:12 |
| johnthetubaguy | hmm, clarkb has a point, maybe I am not sure about the tag for each commit, if that would work well enough without that (shrugs) | 21:13 |
| bknudson | it is kind of strange to have a tag on every commit | 21:13 |
| morganfainberg | isn't a commit... effectively a tag? | 21:13 |
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| jokke_ | the good point pro that in the ml discussion was that it's easy to find out if you have the fix for X which is A.B.C included C+7, yes it is | 21:13 |
| * morganfainberg doesn't really have a horse in this race but things it's silly to tag every commit... but ... meh? | 21:14 | |
| jokke_ | morganfainberg: it's not easy for human (nor computer) to tell by commit id alone if it was before or after another random commit id | 21:14 |
| morganfainberg | thinks* | 21:14 |
| fungi | morganfainberg: commits don't imply a sequence, nut anyway these are points better made on th ml | 21:15 |
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| ttx | indeed. Follow up on ML if you care. Next topic! | 21:15 |
| fungi | where i also type gooder | 21:15 |
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| johnthetubaguy | yeah, to the ML on this one | 21:15 |
| markmcclain | cool.. moving on | 21:16 |
| markmcclain | #topic Return request ID to caller | 21:16 |
| markmcclain | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/156508/ | 21:16 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Return request ID to caller (Meeting topic: crossproject)" | 21:16 | |
| tpatil | I want to discuss about 3 review comments given by Brant on the specs | 21:16 |
| tpatil | First concern: Every method should return an object which contains request_id attribute, so that it’s consistent. This also applies to Tuple return type | 21:16 |
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| tpatil | IMO, we cannot change Tuple response as it would affect Openstack services. Tuple contains ‘X-Openstack-Request-Id’ in the response header of Response object. So I don’t think there is a need to add request_id attribute here. But I agree it’s not consistent with other types though | 21:17 |
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| tpatil | We are going to add a new method ‘get_request_id” in client which would return request_id (String) depending on the type of the response to the caller | 21:17 |
| tpatil | All logic to interpret different response type will be contained in this new method so user don’t have to worry about it | 21:17 |
| tpatil | Any comments? | 21:18 |
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| johnthetubaguy | yeah, that sounds like the compromise I remember us heading towards | 21:18 |
| tpatil | johnthetubaguy: Right | 21:18 |
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| tpatil | Second concern: We were thinking of adding all base class (ListWithMeta, DictWithMeta) in oslo.incubator, but Brant pointed some serious concerns of using oslo.incubator library in keystoneclient | 21:19 |
| tpatil | It's possible to add all these new classes in individual clients but it would be repetitive code | 21:19 |
| bknudson | having oslo-incubator (unstable code) in keystoneclient (stable code) has been a real pain | 21:19 |
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| bknudson | I'd be fine if it was obvious that oslo-incubator code was private (prefixed with _) | 21:20 |
| dhellmann | where would these classes end up after they left the incubator? | 21:20 |
| bknudson | but that's not how apiclient was implemented | 21:20 |
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| morganfainberg | if the oslo-incubator code isn't marked as private, I'm going to go out on a limb and say I will reject it for keystoneclient | 21:20 |
| morganfainberg | i don't want external projects grabbing the incubator code from keystoneclient as though it was a stable interface of keystoneclient | 21:21 |
| dhellmann | tpatil: I don't understand why subclassing tuple so methods that return tuples behave the same as the other methods is going to break anything? | 21:21 |
| johnthetubaguy | I am curious actually, what issues were you seeing with the incubator stuff? oh... thats nasty, I see | 21:21 |
| dhellmann | morganfainberg: yeah, the incubated code should clearly be private. Maybe we should change foo/openstack to foo/_openstack | 21:22 |
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| morganfainberg | dhellmann: that would solve my major concern :) | 21:22 |
| bknudson | dhellmann: that would be great | 21:22 |
| dhellmann | although I'm not certain why this needs to be incubated at all, so I would like to understand that and where it will live later on | 21:22 |
| tpatil | dhellmann: we haven't change anything related to Tuple | 21:22 |
| dhellmann | because maybe it can just go there now and skip the incubation step | 21:22 |
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| morganfainberg | dhellmann: i'd also be ok with that | 21:23 |
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| Rockyg | the less that has to migrate through the incubator, the better. | 21:23 |
| dhellmann | tpatil, bknudson : can one of you explain the concern about tuples? maybe I'm misunderstanding, but it sounded like you thought there was a reason not to change methods that return tuples? | 21:23 |
| morganfainberg | Rockyg: ++ | 21:23 |
| fungi | yeah, i thought oslo-incubator was for code extracted from one or more existing projects, not for entirely new works | 21:23 |
| dhellmann | tpatil: you say in a comment on line 111: "But we cannot change Tuple response since it will break OpenStack services consuming it." | 21:24 |
| * morganfainberg is against incubator code in general, especially *new* incubator code | 21:24 | |
| Rockyg | morganfainberg, me, too | 21:24 |
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| bknudson | dhellmann: methods that return dict, dict is wrapped so you can do .request_id, whereas with tuple it's not wrapped so you can't do .request_id on the returned value | 21:24 |
| tpatil | dhellman: first of all ,we cannot subclass tuple and add request_id attribute | 21:25 |
| bknudson | dhellmann: so my concern was that I'd like it to be consistent where everything that's returned you can do .request_id on it. | 21:25 |
| dhellmann | fungi: it is for code where we expect the API to have to evolve in a way that will break things. In the past the predominant source of that code has been other projects, but there's no hard rule for that. | 21:25 |
| tpatil | dhellman, so we want to keep the same behavior | 21:25 |
| dhellmann | tpatil: why can't you subclass tuple? | 21:25 |
| tpatil | dhellman: immutable | 21:25 |
| tpatil | dhellman: we tried to override __new__ method but that doesn't help too | 21:26 |
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| dhellmann | tpatil: it seems to work fine for me: http://paste.openstack.org/show/406994/ | 21:26 |
| fungi | dhellmann: interesting that there aren't better ways to avoid people thinking you have stable interfaces in a library besides avoiding making a library at all | 21:26 |
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| morganfainberg | fungi: issues with python :( | 21:27 |
| fungi | but i guess that's verging off topic | 21:27 |
| bknudson | let's switch to java | 21:27 |
| dhellmann | tpatil: a longer example: http://paste.openstack.org/show/406995/ | 21:27 |
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| Rockyg | heretic! | 21:27 |
| dhellmann | fungi: well the point is that sometimes there aren't stable interfaces and rather than supporting something crummy for a long time we evolve it using static linking instead | 21:28 |
| tpatil | dhellman: Ok, so with this, user can access request_id attribute | 21:28 |
| dhellmann | right | 21:28 |
| tpatil | dhellman: We will confirm this if it works and incorporate it in the specs. Thanks. | 21:28 |
| tpatil | Third concern: In case ListWithMeta, request_id is of type list and other places it is not. why? | 21:29 |
| tpatil | ListWithMeta type is returned mostly for various list (volumes/snapshots etc) methods. | 21:29 |
| tpatil | So it may contain one or more request_ids depending on 'limit' and 'page_size' parameters passed in the request | 21:29 |
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| bknudson | so these comments were about making the interface consistent | 21:29 |
| tpatil | Whereas in all other cases, there will be only one request_id | 21:29 |
| bknudson | so that the same code could be used to process it. | 21:29 |
| tpatil | bknudson: right | 21:29 |
| dhellmann | bknudson: do we need a list everywhere, then? | 21:29 |
| tpatil | But if we want request_id attribute to be consistent for all types, then we will change it list type | 21:29 |
| bknudson | a list everywhere would be consistent | 21:29 |
| dhellmann | ok, so then request_ids instead of request_id | 21:30 |
| bknudson | and also more resilient in case other methods required making multiple calls | 21:30 |
| tpatil | dhellman: sure | 21:30 |
| johnthetubaguy | yeah, that seems good, makes it simpler | 21:30 |
| tpatil | That's address all my concerns, anyone has anything else to add | 21:30 |
| tpatil | s/address/addresses | 21:31 |
| Rockyg | sounds like one more revision might jsut do it. Great work, tpatil | 21:31 |
| markmcclain | thanks for working on this the last few weeks | 21:31 |
| tpatil | Rockyg: Thanks | 21:31 |
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| markmcclain | #topic Vertical Team Announcements | 21:31 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Vertical Team Announcements (Meeting topic: crossproject)" | 21:31 | |
| markmcclain | Any vertical team announcements? | 21:32 |
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| markmcclain | #topic Open discussion | 21:32 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: crossproject)" | 21:32 | |
| markmcclain | #info Travel Support Program Deadline is August 10th | 21:33 |
| markmcclain | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Travel_Support_Program | 21:33 |
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| elmiko | 2 new api guidelines up for group review, #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2015-August/071345.html | 21:33 |
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| markmcclain | elmiko: apologies... I missed those otherwise would have added to agenda | 21:34 |
| elmiko | markmcclain, no worries, it's more informational. i don't think there is much to discuss. | 21:34 |
| markmcclain | ok | 21:34 |
| elmiko | although, i say that now, it really blew up last time lol | 21:35 |
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| markmcclain | yeah.. funny how that happens | 21:35 |
| markmcclain | any other open items? | 21:35 |
| elmiko | also, i did add them to the agenda wiki. is there a better place for future reference? | 21:35 |
| markmcclain | elmiko: that's the right place.. I had not refreshed my browser from this morning when I sent the email | 21:36 |
| elmiko | gotcha, thanks =) | 21:36 |
| markmcclain | #info mestery to chair next week | 21:36 |
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| mestery | markmcclain: Thanks ... I think. o_O | 21:37 |
| mestery | :) | 21:37 |
| markmcclain | Thanks for volunteering | 21:37 |
| markmcclain | Have a great week everyone. | 21:37 |
| markmcclain | #endmeeting | 21:37 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: third-party)" | 21:37 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Aug 4 21:37:43 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 21:37 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/crossproject/2015/crossproject.2015-08-04-21.01.html | 21:37 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/crossproject/2015/crossproject.2015-08-04-21.01.txt | 21:37 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/crossproject/2015/crossproject.2015-08-04-21.01.log.html | 21:37 |
| elmiko | thanks markmcclain | 21:37 |
| Rockyg | Thanks! | 21:37 |
| jokke_ | thanks! | 21:37 |
| tpatil | Thanks everyone! | 21:37 |
| mestery | thanks markmcclain! | 21:38 |
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| markmcclain | happy to take a turn at chair | 21:38 |
| ttx | sounds more like taking a bullet for the team | 21:38 |
| mestery | lol | 21:40 |
| * mestery reminds himself to bring a bullet proof vest next week then | 21:40 | |
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