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| anteaya | #startmeeting third-party | 08:00 |
|---|---|---|
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Mar 31 08:00:02 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is anteaya. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 08:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 08:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: third-party)" | 08:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'third_party' | 08:00 |
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| anteaya | raise your hand if you are here for the third party meeting | 08:00 |
| lennyb | Hi | 08:00 |
| anteaya | hello lennyb | 08:00 |
| anteaya | nice to see you | 08:01 |
| anteaya | how are you today? | 08:01 |
| lennyb | you too. It looks like only you and me again :) | 08:01 |
| anteaya | it happens | 08:01 |
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| anteaya | how are you doing at responding to the email thread? | 08:01 |
| anteaya | I don't think i have seen your response yet | 08:02 |
| lennyb | I found a great feature in outlook - 'time zones' for setting recursive meetings with no effect of local summer/winter time. | 08:02 |
| anteaya | well that is great | 08:02 |
| anteaya | I'm glad you found something that works for you | 08:03 |
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| lennyb | Regarding email, I did not respond yet, since we had some issues with showing html reports (it was shown as plain text ) and recent Nova failures that I am fixing. | 08:03 |
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| anteaya | okay | 08:05 |
| anteaya | what is wrong with plain text reports for now? | 08:05 |
| lennyb | now it works as html according to community policy and jogo's comment | 08:06 |
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| anteaya | where is the community policy that it has to be in html? | 08:07 |
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| anteaya | and where is jogo's comment to that effect | 08:08 |
| anteaya | if people are saying that your logs have to be in html that is news to me | 08:08 |
| anteaya | and would like to see where you have seen that stated | 08:08 |
| anteaya | you have to have logs, yes | 08:08 |
| anteaya | the closer they are to what jenkins provides, the better it is for everyone concerned, yes | 08:09 |
| anteaya | they have to be in html? I haven't seen that anywhere | 08:09 |
| lennyb | "I couldn't find the equivalent of: http://logs.openstack.org/68/135768/9/check/check-tempest-dsvm-full/f6c95de/logs/testr_results.html.gz" | 08:09 |
| anteaya | testr_results | 08:10 |
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| anteaya | had you provided the output of testr_results in any format? | 08:10 |
| lennyb | This is his quote and my understanding of it. The link he opens as html, our ones were shown as plain text | 08:10 |
| anteaya | that wasn't a request for html that was a request for testr_results output | 08:10 |
| anteaya | had you shown testr_results prior to his comment? | 08:11 |
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| lennyb | yes, but was also not in root folder. so it's fixed now | 08:12 |
| anteaya | can I see a link to one of your runs | 08:12 |
| anteaya | and we can look at your logs | 08:12 |
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| lennyb | 1sec | 08:15 |
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| lennyb | I done have runs after the fix, yet. This is before the fix. http://144.76.193.39/ci-artifacts/Check-MLNX-Nova-ML2-Sriov-driver_20150318_1650/ | 08:16 |
| anteaya | okay | 08:16 |
| anteaya | can we agree that http://144.76.193.39/ci-artifacts/Check-MLNX-Nova-ML2-Sriov-driver_20150318_1650/console.html.gz is useless in its current format? | 08:17 |
| anteaya | #link http://imgur.com/6MXyRQ4 | 08:18 |
| lennyb | yes. will be fixed as well | 08:18 |
| anteaya | is what I see | 08:18 |
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| anteaya | testr_results is the only log that does seem readable: http://144.76.193.39/ci-artifacts/Check-MLNX-Nova-ML2-Sriov-driver_20150318_1650/logs/testr_results.html.gz | 08:19 |
| anteaya | it doesn't provide much information but the format is readable | 08:20 |
| lennyb | It was smoke run with 2 tests | 08:20 |
| anteaya | yes | 08:20 |
| anteaya | I see that | 08:20 |
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| anteaya | so you have a ways to go, yes? | 08:21 |
| anteaya | so personally right now, I wouldn't be supportive of you leaving comments anywhere but on a sandbox repo | 08:21 |
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| lennyb | I believe so. | 08:22 |
| anteaya | because the artifacts you are providing are not useful for anyone | 08:22 |
| anteaya | okay good | 08:22 |
| anteaya | so going forward, use your judgement | 08:22 |
| anteaya | if you can't read what you provide, chances are noone else can either | 08:22 |
| anteaya | does that make sense? | 08:23 |
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| anteaya | so here is my question | 08:23 |
| anteaya | mellanox is leaving comments on other repos, right? | 08:23 |
| anteaya | their logs must be in some kind of readable shape, I am assuming | 08:24 |
| anteaya | why are you on your own with this? | 08:24 |
| lennyb | yes, neutron and cinder | 08:24 |
| anteaya | why isn't anyone at mellanox helping you get your logs in shape | 08:24 |
| anteaya | certainly someone at mellanox must have figured out log formatting by now | 08:24 |
| anteaya | why aren't they supporting you? | 08:25 |
| lennyb | I am not on my own, I am just the one who represents Mellanox CI | 08:25 |
| anteaya | http://144.76.193.39/ci-artifacts/143297/30/Check-MLNX-Neutron-ML2-driver/ | 08:26 |
| anteaya | and this is from a neutron patch | 08:26 |
| anteaya | and the logs are in terrible shape | 08:26 |
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| lennyb | I see, It will be fixed a.s.a.p as well | 08:27 |
| anteaya | Mellanox CI is commenting and leaving this on Neutron patches | 08:27 |
| anteaya | how? | 08:27 |
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| anteaya | is there anyone at Mellanox that has figured out log formatting? | 08:27 |
| anteaya | this was Kyle's and my concern we outlined on the third-party-announce mailing list thread | 08:28 |
| anteaya | Mellanox CI is the account that comments on Neutron patches | 08:28 |
| anteaya | you are just learning, which is fine | 08:28 |
| anteaya | everyone has to learn | 08:28 |
| anteaya | but this CI has voting privledges in Neutron | 08:29 |
| anteaya | do you understand what that means? | 08:29 |
| anteaya | can you understand our concerns here? | 08:29 |
| lennyb | as I said it will be fixed. | 08:29 |
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| anteaya | can you understand our concerns? | 08:29 |
| lennyb | yes, I do understand your concern, We are very responsive on every issue of Mellanox CI failure | 08:31 |
| anteaya | do you understand that you are new | 08:31 |
| anteaya | and that the reason we don't start off with systems voting right away anymore is that we have seen the mistakes that new people make when they are learning how to operate a ci system? | 08:32 |
| anteaya | this is for your protection as much as for neutron's | 08:32 |
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| lennyb | yes, I understand and I do have full support of Mellanox team. | 08:32 |
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| anteaya | how can they leave a new person solely responsible for a voting ci system? | 08:33 |
| anteaya | at the very least you should request yourself that for neutron voting permissions be removed until you learn what you are doing | 08:33 |
| anteaya | if anythign this will be seen as a very responsible move on your part | 08:34 |
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| anteaya | this isn't your fault | 08:35 |
| anteaya | ci operators are routinely expected to accomplish tasks that they have no idea how to do | 08:35 |
| anteaya | but this approach has a cost | 08:35 |
| anteaya | and you pay it | 08:35 |
| anteaya | and so does the community | 08:35 |
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| anteaya | whereas management just thinks it is your fault | 08:36 |
| anteaya | it is far better to be honest with yourself, and with us | 08:36 |
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| anteaya | and have the permissions on the account set in such a way that the operator is cognizant of the ramifications of their actions | 08:36 |
| anteaya | and new people just aren't | 08:37 |
| anteaya | hence we learned to restrict accounts run by new ci operators | 08:37 |
| anteaya | which usually is new ci accounts | 08:37 |
| anteaya | I don't know if I have other examples of a running ci account that is just handed off to a new person | 08:38 |
| lennyb | As I said, I have enough experience in the field and enough support of the team and of the community ( as I see ) to continue running our CIs. logs will be fixed. Nova CI will be updated and appropriate email will be sent to the list | 08:41 |
| anteaya | I don't know as you heard anything I said | 08:41 |
| anteaya | sigh | 08:41 |
| anteaya | I guess we just have to do this the hard way | 08:42 |
| anteaya | as you see fit | 08:43 |
| anteaya | anything else I can help you with today? | 08:43 |
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| lennyb | anteaya, we are currently disabling all our CIs untill this formatting issue is solved. | 08:51 |
| anteaya | lennyb: good call | 08:51 |
| anteaya | thanks for listening | 08:51 |
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| anteaya | can you update your system on this page: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/ThirdPartySystems | 08:52 |
| anteaya | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/ThirdPartySystems | 08:52 |
| anteaya | and this | 08:52 |
| anteaya | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/ThirdPartySystems/Mellanox_CI | 08:52 |
| anteaya | with your current status please? | 08:52 |
| anteaya | thank you so much | 08:52 |
| anteaya | I'm grateful | 08:52 |
| anteaya | if you are around in a few hours I suggest pinging asselin, he is active in the cinder channel and in the infra channel | 08:53 |
| anteaya | asselin he may have some suggestions about how you can get a readable format in your logs | 08:53 |
| -openstackstatus- NOTICE: CI Check/Gate pipelines currently stuck due to a bad dependency creeping in the system. No need to recheck your patches at the moment. | 08:53 | |
| *** ChanServ changes topic to "CI Check/Gate pipelines currently stuck due to a bad dependency creeping in the system. No need to recheck your patches at the moment." | 08:54 | |
| anteaya | he is on pacific time so should be around in 7 hours | 08:54 |
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| lennyb | this issue was caused yesterday, when I added html support to the server that stores our logs. | 08:54 |
| anteaya | ah | 08:54 |
| anteaya | okay that is making more sense now, thank you | 08:55 |
| anteaya | I personally have never seen this issue before | 08:55 |
| anteaya | but check with asselin or perhaps patrickeast | 08:55 |
| anteaya | one of them might have seen it previously | 08:55 |
| anteaya | thanks for being proactive | 08:55 |
| anteaya | I appreciate it | 08:55 |
| lennyb | the logs are ok, just trying to show plain txt as html. it has nothing to do with CI itself. | 08:55 |
| anteaya | right I know | 08:56 |
| anteaya | but artifacts that are useful is important | 08:56 |
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| anteaya | and being proactive in ensuring what you provide is consumable goes a long way to folks recognizing that you take responsiblity for your actions | 08:57 |
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| anteaya | which translates to how they view your entire system | 08:57 |
| anteaya | so thank you | 08:57 |
| lennyb | I know. Thanks for the meeting, tips and guidance | 08:57 |
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| anteaya | thanks for showing up | 08:58 |
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| anteaya | showing up is really _my_ only requirement | 08:58 |
| anteaya | anything else can be learned | 08:58 |
| anteaya | but you can't learn it if you don't show up | 08:58 |
| anteaya | so thanks | 08:58 |
| anteaya | and yeah looks like we are at the end | 08:58 |
| anteaya | see you next week, I hope, lennyb | 08:59 |
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| anteaya | #endmeeting | 08:59 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 08:59 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Mar 31 08:59:22 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 08:59 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/third_party/2015/third_party.2015-03-31-08.00.html | 08:59 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/third_party/2015/third_party.2015-03-31-08.00.txt | 08:59 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/third_party/2015/third_party.2015-03-31-08.00.log.html | 08:59 |
| lennyb_ | next week I have vacation | 08:59 |
| anteaya | ah thanks for letting me know | 08:59 |
| anteaya | enjoy your vacation | 08:59 |
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| anteaya | so just as a reminder the nova-net to neutron meetings are on hold pending the outcome of the discussion started on the ml | 09:00 |
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| anteaya | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/Nova-nettoNeutronMigration | 09:00 |
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| lxsli | o/ ? | 14:03 |
| lxsli | oh DST | 14:03 |
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| bauzas | #startmeeting gantt | 15:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Mar 31 15:00:01 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is bauzas. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 15:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 15:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: gantt)" | 15:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'gantt' | 15:00 |
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| bauzas | aloha, anyone here ? | 15:00 |
| edleafe | \o | 15:00 |
| alex_xu | o/ | 15:00 |
| bauzas | n0ano is having a meeting conflict so I'm chairing for this week | 15:00 |
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| bauzas | okay, waiting a few mins and then we begin | 15:01 |
| lxsli | o/ | 15:01 |
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| bauzas | okay, let's begin and people will come | 15:03 |
| bauzas | so | 15:03 |
| bauzas | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/nova-scheduler-meeting | 15:03 |
| bauzas | sorry I had no time for sending out an email | 15:03 |
| bauzas | feel free to add your points in there | 15:04 |
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| bauzas | #topic meeting name | 15:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "meeting name (Meeting topic: gantt)" | 15:04 | |
| bauzas | so, perhaps some of you already saw http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2015-March/060179.html | 15:04 |
| bauzas | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2015-March/060179.html | 15:04 |
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| bauzas | that's bad to not have n0ano today but would like to get your views | 15:05 |
| bauzas | soooooo | 15:05 |
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| edleafe | I always thought of Gantt related to scheduler like Cinder related to nova-volume | 15:05 |
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| bauzas | I would like to see this meeting the last time I'm calling it Gantt | 15:05 |
| bauzas | until we really spin off Gantt | 15:05 |
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| edleafe | bauzas: +1 on calling this nova-scheduler | 15:06 |
| bauzas | edleafe: agreed but we're now in the same state than Cinder :) | 15:06 |
| bauzas | *not | 15:06 |
| bauzas | dammit, stupid fingers | 15:06 |
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| edleafe | bauzas: exactly, which is why it is premature to call this Gantt | 15:07 |
| bauzas | ok, anyone else ? feel free to give your point at the thread | 15:07 |
| alex_xu | but we discussion what will look like for gantt at future at here also? | 15:07 |
| bauzas | alex_xu: that's not actually bad | 15:07 |
| bauzas | alex_xu: we can still discuss on the next features and the target | 15:07 |
| bauzas | alex_xu: it will just help newcomers to join us | 15:08 |
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| bauzas | and my point goes to jay's comments about doubts of the legal issues we could raise | 15:08 |
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| bauzas | before actually being sure that Gantt is the right codename, we should also ask the Foundation if that's correct for a project name | 15:08 |
| bauzas | I know how it's painful to rewrite the namespace... | 15:09 |
| PaulMurray | wasn't gantt french? | 15:09 |
| bauzas | (for teasers, just look at Climate/Blazar repo) | 15:09 |
| edleafe | Not sure about legal problems. The name 'Gantt' for scheduling is over 100 years old | 15:09 |
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| edleafe | pretty generic at this point | 15:09 |
| bauzas | PaulMurray: everything good is French, don't you know, English man ? | 15:10 |
| bauzas | edleafe: yeah, but I would like to be sure we're not wrong | 15:10 |
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| bauzas | so, back to the topic, feel free to leave your comments on the thread | 15:11 |
| bauzas | on the mean time... | 15:11 |
| bauzas | #action bauzas to check with Foundation about possible legal issues with the "Gantt" codename | 15:11 |
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| bauzas | okay, let's continue, I just would like to see all your point before the next meeting | 15:12 |
| bauzas | #info Comments appreciated on http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2015-March/060179.html | 15:13 |
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| bauzas | #topic Patch status | 15:13 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Patch status (Meeting topic: gantt)" | 15:13 | |
| bauzas | anyone ? I'm passing | 15:13 |
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| bauzas | I'm quite busy with the cells fixable stuff | 15:13 |
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| edleafe | Saw that PaulMurray's first patch in the series finally merged. Congrats! | 15:14 |
| bauzas | yay ! | 15:14 |
| PaulMurray | see what happens when your not looking ! | 15:14 |
| bauzas | at least we're in a better shape than before even if I wanted to have the RT objectified by Kilo :( | 15:14 |
| PaulMurray | Well, we actually got 5 patches in a few days - including lxsli migration patches | 15:15 |
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| bauzas | PaulMurray: if that's a matter of *not* reviewing your changes, let me know and I'll make you a pleasure with this :) | 15:15 |
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| bauzas | PaulMurray: indeed, kudos to lxsli too | 15:16 |
| PaulMurray | bauzas, you need to be careful with you language there - that sounded a bit .... wrong | 15:16 |
| bauzas | PaulMurray: French joker card | 15:16 |
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| PaulMurray | bauzas, it was about core reviews.... | 15:16 |
| bauzas | PaulMurray: then I missed your point | 15:17 |
| bauzas | :) | 15:17 |
| PaulMurray | no, I mean we lacked core reviews until last minute - your language was still almost rude | 15:17 |
| PaulMurray | :) | 15:17 |
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| ndipanov | lol | 15:18 |
| PaulMurray | ndipanov, thanks for your help with the patches | 15:18 |
| ndipanov | PaulMurray, I am very sad that stuff didn;t make it for kilo | 15:18 |
| ndipanov | awesome work | 15:18 |
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| bauzas | indeed | 15:19 |
| bauzas | there are some -1s IIRC | 15:19 |
| PaulMurray | only you | 15:19 |
| bauzas | (from me probably) | 15:19 |
| bauzas | yay, shall I iterate over those still ? | 15:19 |
| PaulMurray | and jenkins | 15:19 |
| PaulMurray | I will rebase soon | 15:20 |
| bauzas | man, I don't know who this Jenkins guy is, but he's quite rude too | 15:20 |
| bauzas | anyway | 15:20 |
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| bauzas | any other scheduler-related stuff that we should discuss ? | 15:20 |
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| ndipanov | bauzas, 2 things I'd like to mention | 15:21 |
| bauzas | ndipanov: go on | 15:21 |
| ndipanov | that became apparent to me only lately | 15:21 |
| ndipanov | 1 is that pci tracker as it stands now is reasonably buggy | 15:21 |
| bauzas | well... | 15:22 |
| bauzas | ndipanov: you know my opinion on that | 15:22 |
| ndipanov | I am not sure how easy that is to fix, but I know what the main cause of it is | 15:22 |
| ndipanov | yeah... | 15:22 |
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| bauzas | ndipanov: again, it's not a design problem | 15:22 |
| ndipanov | I think it actually is | 15:22 |
| bauzas | ndipanov: it's about the integration with the existing | 15:22 |
| ndipanov | yes | 15:23 |
| ndipanov | trye | 15:23 |
| ndipanov | true | 15:23 |
| bauzas | ndipanov: yeah I had a discussion with sean dague and dansmith about the PCI optionnality | 15:23 |
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| ndipanov | so expect work going into that as soon as we are using objects in RT (Paul's patches land) | 15:23 |
| bauzas | ndipanov: well, the problem is also that PCI is always tracking stuff while filters are perhaps not enabled | 15:23 |
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| ndipanov | that's a whole other story | 15:24 |
| bauzas | true | 15:24 |
| bauzas | and too broad for discussing it there | 15:24 |
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| ndipanov | second is that there have been several issues with "resources" such as pci and numa | 15:25 |
| bauzas | ndipanov: so yeah, I expect PaulMurray's work on objectifying the RT could help us a lot | 15:25 |
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| ndipanov | that I feel are basically the same class of errors | 15:25 |
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| bauzas | ndipanov: any precise issues that you could share with us ? | 15:25 |
| ndipanov | yes | 15:25 |
| * ndipanov looks for bugs | 15:25 | |
| bauzas | ndipanov: in the meantime, could we jump onto the next topic and come back to your point for the open discussion ? | 15:26 |
| bauzas | the next topic is Vancouver summit talks | 15:26 |
| bauzas | okay, guessing it's a yes | 15:27 |
| ndipanov | https://bugs.launchpad.net/nova/+bug/1417667 | 15:27 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1417667 in OpenStack Compute (nova) "migration/evacuation/rebuild/resize of instance with dedicated cpus needs to recalculate cpus on destination" [Medium,In progress] - Assigned to Bart Wensley (bartwensley) | 15:27 |
| bauzas | #topicVancouver discussion ideas | 15:27 |
| ndipanov | yes | 15:27 |
| bauzas | erm | 15:27 |
| bauzas | #topic Vancouver discussion ideas | 15:27 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Vancouver discussion ideas (Meeting topic: gantt)" | 15:27 | |
| ndipanov | ping me once open-discussion happens | 15:27 |
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| bauzas | ndipanov: sure thing | 15:27 |
| bauzas | so, any ideas so far ? | 15:27 |
| bauzas | just to be clear, I have no precise information about how the Design Summit will be held, only that we'll have a nice sightseeing from the place we'll be :)à | 15:28 |
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| bauzas | ttx proposed a discussion about the Design Summit format and talks for today's cross-project meeting | 15:29 |
| bauzas | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2015-March/060258.html | 15:29 |
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| bauzas | I shouldn't be able to attend today's meeting (damn DST) but feel free to attend | 15:30 |
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| edleafe | I'll try to make it | 15:31 |
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| bauzas | cool | 15:31 |
| bauzas | anyway, I propose to defer our discussions until next week | 15:31 |
| edleafe | I have another call then, but I can lurk | 15:31 |
| bauzas | so that we should get a better picture about that | 15:31 |
| bauzas | also | 15:31 |
| bauzas | mikal proposed an etherpad for tracking *nova related* discussions http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2015-March/060024.html | 15:32 |
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| bauzas | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/liberty-nova-summit-ideas | 15:32 |
| bauzas | feel free to point out any point about our concerns that are related to Nova | 15:32 |
| bauzas | at the moment, the only related point to the scheduler is about the split, but I guess we should have more to discuss | 15:33 |
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| bauzas | okay, last but not least topic unless someone's screaming in the next minute | 15:34 |
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| bauzas | let's openly open the open discussion | 15:35 |
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| bauzas | #topic open discussion | 15:35 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: gantt)" | 15:35 | |
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| bauzas | so, ndipanov had some bugs to provide us related to the PCI and NUMA resource tracking | 15:36 |
| bauzas | ndipanov: ping | 15:36 |
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| edleafe | pinged him in openstack-nova | 15:39 |
| bauzas | we can wait a few more mins, he's possibly afk | 15:40 |
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| bauzas | any other subject people are wanting to discuss meanwhile ? | 15:40 |
| bauzas | oh | 15:40 |
| bauzas | that reminds me one big thing I forgot to mention | 15:40 |
| bauzas | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/168682/ | 15:41 |
| bauzas | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/168883/ | 15:41 |
| bauzas | both are related to the existing Gantt repo | 15:41 |
| bauzas | which is actually just a wrong thing | 15:42 |
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| bauzas | (speaking of the existing repo)à | 15:42 |
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| edleafe | bauzas: I wasn't involved in that Gantt work. Is there value in keeping it? | 15:42 |
| edleafe | bauzas: or should we start clean? | 15:43 |
| bauzas | edleafe: honestly, nothing but a trace | 15:43 |
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| bauzas | edleafe: the real problem is how painful it is to remove a repo or rename it | 15:43 |
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| ndipanov | bauzas, right | 15:44 |
| bauzas | edleafe: so we keep it as a reference but with a big disclaimer saying that the code is just messy | 15:44 |
| edleafe | bauzas: ok, but these are simply to get them out of infra, right? | 15:44 |
| bauzas | edleafe: not really | 15:44 |
| ndipanov | https://bugs.launchpad.net/nova/+bug/1417667 | 15:44 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1417667 in OpenStack Compute (nova) "migration/evacuation/rebuild/resize of instance with dedicated cpus needs to recalculate cpus on destination" [Medium,In progress] - Assigned to Bart Wensley (bartwensley) | 15:44 |
| ndipanov | is the bug | 15:44 |
| bauzas | edleafe: all of the decisions would require a manual intervention | 15:44 |
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| bauzas | anyway | 15:44 |
| bauzas | back to ndipanov's point | 15:44 |
| ndipanov | right | 15:45 |
| ndipanov | so these kind of problems | 15:45 |
| ndipanov | exist with | 15:45 |
| bauzas | oh this | 15:45 |
| ndipanov | what I can only describe as | 15:45 |
| ndipanov | "stateful" resources | 15:45 |
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| bauzas | mmm | 15:45 |
| ndipanov | where next allocation is the function of previous allocations | 15:45 |
| ndipanov | not only thieir count | 15:45 |
| ndipanov | two of those that we have are numa and pci stuff | 15:46 |
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| bauzas | ndipanov: I see, the problem being that's a bucket of instances, and not a single instance boot, right ? | 15:46 |
| ndipanov | no | 15:46 |
| bauzas | okay, then I misunderstood | 15:46 |
| ndipanov | so the problem is when migrating/resizing | 15:47 |
| ndipanov | and evacuating (although I am not sure how that should work) | 15:47 |
| bauzas | oooooh understood | 15:47 |
| bauzas | policies are not enforced | 15:47 |
| ndipanov | em | 15:47 |
| ndipanov | no | 15:47 |
| bauzas | are we sure that the reporter didn't ask for a destination host ? | 15:47 |
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| bauzas | by saying "policies", I was meaning that the filters were not taken in account ( not the nova policy thing) | 15:48 |
| ndipanov | well that's one thing | 15:48 |
| alex_xu | ndipanov: because the request spec and status after boot was stored in single object? | 15:48 |
| bauzas | ndipanov: you know that migrations are able to bypass the scheduler if a dest host is specified ? | 15:48 |
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| ndipanov | so the thing is | 15:49 |
| ndipanov | the other thing | 15:49 |
| bauzas | ndipanov: we totally get rid of the scheduler when we're migrating to a specified dest host | 15:49 |
| ndipanov | is that we track migrations via flavor | 15:49 |
| bauzas | yup | 15:49 |
| ndipanov | but you can't do that for pci/numa | 15:49 |
| ndipanov | and similar resources | 15:50 |
| ndipanov | because it is not only the "count" | 15:50 |
| ndipanov | that is important | 15:50 |
| ndipanov | but the actual allocation | 15:50 |
| ndipanov | at the time of claim | 15:50 |
| PaulMurray | its not the fact that there is a device - its which one | 15:50 |
| bauzas | ndipanov: but claims are reported as usage right ? | 15:50 |
| ndipanov | because it may be different at the time of the RT loop because it is a function of all previous allocations on the host | 15:51 |
| ndipanov | yes PaulMurray that's exactly it | 15:51 |
| ndipanov | this likely means that we have to keep a record of said allocations with the migration row | 15:51 |
| ndipanov | which is fine | 15:51 |
| ndipanov | I guess | 15:51 |
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| ndipanov | but 1) it needs to be written 2) I wonder if there is a more general API we could have | 15:52 |
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| ndipanov | once we actually have resources | 15:52 |
| bauzas | ndipanov: I'm quite blind on the NUMA stuff (with much regret) | 15:52 |
| ndipanov | so my question is | 15:52 |
| ndipanov | would it be ok to sprinkle these 2 special cases as columns | 15:53 |
| bauzas | ndipanov: but I was thinking that we were tracking that for example pCPU0 was pinned as an usage | 15:53 |
| ndipanov | we are | 15:53 |
| ndipanov | but you can't recreate which one from just the flavor | 15:53 |
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| ndipanov | you have to store the actual allocation somewhere | 15:53 |
| bauzas | ndipanov: oh I see, that's not persisteed | 15:54 |
| ndipanov | for boot - we store it on the instance | 15:54 |
| ndipanov | but for migration... | 15:54 |
| PaulMurray | ndipanov, if claims become a first class object, would that be the place? | 15:54 |
| ndipanov | PaulMurray, maybe | 15:54 |
| ndipanov | yes | 15:54 |
| bauzas | I tend to say that we definitely miss bp/resource-objects | 15:54 |
| ndipanov | yes | 15:54 |
| ndipanov | so my question was | 15:54 |
| ndipanov | should we hack on fixing it and hope to generalize it later with Claim/resource objects | 15:55 |
| ndipanov | or the other way around | 15:55 |
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| bauzas | well, bp/resource-objects was expected to be worked during Kilo | 15:55 |
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| bauzas | so we should loop back with jaypipes | 15:55 |
| ndipanov | bauzas, the thing is that it's a bug | 15:56 |
| ndipanov | but one that seems to be easily generalizable | 15:56 |
| ndipanov | if there were a place to generalize it | 15:56 |
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| bauzas | ndipanov: agreed, but I think the generalization has to be done alas bp/resource-objects | 15:56 |
| ndipanov | right | 15:57 |
| ndipanov | ok well | 15:57 |
| bauzas | ndipanov: that said, I would appreciate your bugfix | 15:57 |
| ndipanov | there is a patch that proposes this for numa already | 15:57 |
| bauzas | ndipanov: because it gives us a path for fixing it | 15:57 |
| ndipanov | I will look into the pci side of things as well | 15:58 |
| bauzas | ndipanov: oh right, the bug is mentioning it | 15:58 |
| ndipanov | and then hopefully we'll meet in the middle with resource objects | 15:58 |
| bauzas | ndipanov: https://review.openstack.org/163440 is the one about NUMA ? | 15:58 |
| bauzas | caution : not having yet reviewed the change | 15:58 |
| ndipanov | yes!! | 15:58 |
| bauzas | woaw, fat one then | 15:59 |
| bauzas | but that sounds doable | 15:59 |
| bauzas | ndipanov: do you think we should target it for RC1 ? | 15:59 |
| bauzas | ndipanov: I haven't yet reviewed the change so I don't know if it's landable yet | 15:59 |
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| bauzas | damn, we're running out of time | 16:00 |
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| ndipanov | bauzas, with db migrations... | 16:00 |
| bauzas | let's discuss that offline and free up the lock | 16:00 |
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| ndipanov | I think not | 16:00 |
| edleafe | bauzas: it hasobject version bumps | 16:00 |
| bauzas | ndipanov: edleafe: ooooh | 16:00 |
| ndipanov | I don't think it's that critical | 16:00 |
| bauzas | then yes, it will be fixed in Liberty | 16:00 |
| ndipanov | worth a relnote for sure | 16:00 |
| bauzas | ok guys, take care | 16:00 |
| bauzas | #endmeeting | 16:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 16:01 | |
| edleafe | yes | 16:01 |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Mar 31 16:01:04 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 16:01 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/gantt/2015/gantt.2015-03-31-15.00.html | 16:01 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/gantt/2015/gantt.2015-03-31-15.00.txt | 16:01 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/gantt/2015/gantt.2015-03-31-15.00.log.html | 16:01 |
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| boris-42 | #startmeeting Rally | 17:02 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Mar 31 17:02:51 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is boris-42. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 17:02 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 17:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: Rally)" | 17:02 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'rally' | 17:02 |
| boris-42 | meteorfox: ping | 17:02 |
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| boris-42 | msdubov: ping | 17:02 |
| rvasilets | o/ | 17:03 |
| meteorfox | boris-42: hey | 17:03 |
| msdubov | boris-42: hi! | 17:03 |
| boris-42 | andreykurilin: rvasilets oanufriev ping | 17:03 |
| boris-42 | hey hey everybody | 17:03 |
| boris-42 | =) | 17:03 |
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| prashantS | boris-42: hey! I'm here for my first meeting@Rally. Work at Rackspace with meteorfox | 17:04 |
| meteorfox | boris-42: prashantS will also join us today, we are from the same team here at Rackspace, and he wants to start contributing to Rally :) | 17:04 |
| boris-42 | prashantS: hi there | 17:04 |
| boris-42 | prashantS: nice to meet you=) | 17:04 |
| prashantS | hi boris-42. Same here :) | 17:04 |
| oanufriev | hi | 17:04 |
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| boris-42 | So let's start | 17:05 |
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| boris-42 | #topic Rally proposal to add to OpenStack | 17:05 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Rally proposal to add to OpenStack (Meeting topic: Rally)" | 17:05 | |
| andreykurilin_ | hi all) | 17:05 |
| boris-42 | I made proposal https://review.openstack.org/#/c/169357/ | 17:05 |
| boris-42 | andreykurilin_: hi hi | 17:05 |
| boris-42 | So probably rally will be moved from stackforge to openstack space | 17:05 |
| boris-42 | at least I hope so=) | 17:06 |
| meteorfox | boris-42: nice! | 17:06 |
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| yfried | hi | 17:06 |
| boris-42 | yfried: hi hi | 17:06 |
| andreykurilin_ | it would be great! | 17:06 |
| boris-42 | yfried: as you didn't see I made a proposal https://review.openstack.org/#/c/169357/ | 17:06 |
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| boris-42 | yfried: to move rally from stackforge to openstack space | 17:06 |
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| yfried | boris-42: too late to get us all ATC discount :) | 17:07 |
| boris-42 | yfried: lol=0 | 17:07 |
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| boris-42 | yfried: so next time next time=) | 17:08 |
| meteorfox | boris-42: where can I read more about the process to proposing a project to move from stackforge to openstack proper? | 17:08 |
| boris-42 | meteorfox: mabye this https://github.com/openstack/governance/blob/master/reference/new-projects-requirements.rst ? | 17:08 |
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| meteorfox | boris-42: thanks | 17:08 |
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| yfried | boris-42: where can I find mtg log? | 17:09 |
| boris-42 | yfried: oh there are somewhere | 17:09 |
| yfried | boris-42: later then | 17:10 |
| boris-42 | yfried: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/irclogs/ | 17:10 |
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| yfried | tnx | 17:10 |
| meteorfox | boris-42: heh. wouldn't this be too much noise in the ML? "The project uses the openstack-dev ML to discuss issues" | 17:10 |
| meteorfox | boris-42: that's one the requirements for an OS project | 17:10 |
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| boris-42 | meteorfox: hm? | 17:11 |
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| boris-42 | meteorfox: and we are using sometimes mailing list for dicussion | 17:11 |
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| meteorfox | boris-42: oh ok. I should subscribe to openstack-dev then | 17:11 |
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| boris-42 | meteorfox: but I am trying to discuss stuff in more constructive ways | 17:12 |
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| boris-42 | meteorfox: e.g. specs/irc/google docs | 17:12 |
| meteorfox | boris-42: yeah I know, I do like Rally's approach better | 17:12 |
| boris-42 | meteorfox: so mailing list should be for something more urgent and important updates | 17:13 |
| meteorfox | boris-42: gotcha | 17:13 |
| boris-42 | so next TC meeting should be on 7th april | 17:14 |
| boris-42 | It will be nice if you guys ^ meteorfox yfried could join it | 17:14 |
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| yfried | boris-42: Is this an IRC mtg? I'll try to attend | 17:15 |
| boris-42 | yfried: yep IRC meeting | 17:15 |
| boris-42 | yfried: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/TechnicalCommittee | 17:15 |
| meteorfox | boris-42: sure, I will | 17:15 |
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| yfried | boris-42: anything else on this subject? | 17:16 |
| boris-42 | yfried: I don't think so =) | 17:16 |
| boris-42 | except well done guys=) | 17:16 |
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| boris-42 | okay let's move to next topic | 17:17 |
| boris-42 | #topic Support existing users | 17:18 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Support existing users (Meeting topic: Rally)" | 17:18 | |
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| boris-42 | So this was VERY VERY OLD task | 17:18 |
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| boris-42 | and I had to refactor whole Rally many times=) | 17:18 |
| yfried | boris-42: also very very important in benchmarking production clouds | 17:18 |
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| boris-42 | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/168524/ | 17:18 |
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| boris-42 | yfried: yep that is why I was working on it | 17:18 |
| boris-42 | yfried: and now it is finished in that patch ^ | 17:19 |
| boris-42 | I need to improve a bit cleanup mechanism | 17:19 |
| boris-42 | I hope to do it today | 17:19 |
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| boris-42 | and that is all=) | 17:19 |
| boris-42 | so We don't drop admin requirements for now, | 17:19 |
| yfried | boris-42: how come it doesn't have a bp tracker? | 17:19 |
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| boris-42 | yfried: it had a long long ago | 17:20 |
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| yfried | boris-42: ok. | 17:20 |
| boris-42 | so it's great that it is finished=) | 17:21 |
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| boris-42 | any questions? | 17:21 |
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| boris-42 | andreykurilin_: yfried meteorfox ^ | 17:21 |
| meteorfox | boris-42: the way to specify users seems a little verbose | 17:21 |
| yfried | boris-42: will review | 17:21 |
| boris-42 | meteorfox: what do you mean? | 17:22 |
| meteorfox | boris-42: but, besides that, all I can think is reading the user accounts from a CSV, or an SQL database | 17:22 |
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| boris-42 | meteorfox: hm you are specifing users when you are creating deployment | 17:23 |
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| boris-42 | meteorfox: like now you are specifing just admin | 17:23 |
| boris-42 | meteorfox: you are able to specify users as well | 17:23 |
| boris-42 | meteorfox: so you don't need to do this for every task | 17:23 |
| boris-42 | just 1 per deployment creation | 17:23 |
| meteorfox | boris-42: so, when using predefined users, you might 50+ users | 17:24 |
| meteorfox | I know this can be done programmatically | 17:24 |
| meteorfox | boris-42: anyway, it's fine | 17:24 |
| boris-42 | meteorfox: so you can extend ExistingUsers | 17:24 |
| boris-42 | meteorfox: ExistingCloud | 17:25 |
| boris-42 | meteorfox: plugin to accept one more argument | 17:25 |
| boris-42 | meteorfox: path to csv file with existing users | 17:25 |
| yfried | boris-42: if users are defined in deployment creation, we should also be able to update (add/remove users) an existing deployment | 17:25 |
| meteorfox | boris-42: that's a good idea | 17:25 |
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| meteorfox | boris-42: it just the static JSON file, can cause some pain when updating passwords and users | 17:26 |
| boris-42 | yfried: meteorfox you can alwasy recreate deployment | 17:26 |
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| yfried | boris-42: seems a bit excessive. also - will it keep dep data (old tests, etc) | 17:27 |
| yfried | ? | 17:27 |
| meteorfox | boris-42: so, having someway to load from a SQL table dynamically, could be useful. | 17:27 |
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| boris-42 | yfried: meteorfox let's dicuss this in separated topic | 17:27 |
| meteorfox | boris-42: ok | 17:28 |
| boris-42 | besides that do we have something regarding to this feature? | 17:28 |
| yfried | boris-42: ok | 17:28 |
| boris-42 | so any other questions? | 17:29 |
| boris-42 | or we are moving to "deployment update" command? | 17:29 |
| boris-42 | msdubov: amaretskiy redixin ^ | 17:30 |
| boris-42 | yfried: meteorfox ^ | 17:30 |
| oanufriev | have no questions | 17:30 |
| amaretskiy | no questions | 17:30 |
| yfried | none | 17:30 |
| boris-42 | #topic deployment update functionality | 17:30 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "deployment update functionality (Meeting topic: Rally)" | 17:30 | |
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| meteorfox | none | 17:31 |
| boris-42 | okay now let's discuss it here | 17:31 |
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| boris-42 | meteorfox: yfried amaretskiy ping | 17:31 |
| amaretskiy | pong | 17:31 |
| boris-42 | so we can support updating credentials of cloud by "rally deployment update" command | 17:31 |
| yfried | boris-42: ? | 17:32 |
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| yfried | boris-42: is this related to updating users for deployment, or is this a standalone topic? | 17:32 |
| boris-42 | it's standalone topic | 17:32 |
| boris-42 | would we provide the way to update information of deployment or not | 17:33 |
| yfried | boris-42: what's the downside? | 17:33 |
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| meteorfox | boris-42: is this related to our previous discussion, updating predefined users for a deployment? | 17:33 |
| boris-42 | the main contra-versional thing here is that Rally can deploy OpenStack as well | 17:33 |
| boris-42 | meteorfox: it is a bit | 17:33 |
| meteorfox | ok | 17:34 |
| boris-42 | so if we will support this feature will it affect too much plugins that deploys openstack? | 17:34 |
| yfried | boris-42: I'm not sure that I understand the issue | 17:35 |
| yfried | boris-42: what changes if we update admin password (for example)? | 17:35 |
| boris-42 | yfried: nothing more or less | 17:35 |
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| yfried | boris-42: so where are the effects? | 17:35 |
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| boris-42 | hm | 17:36 |
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| boris-42 | yfried: so actually yep | 17:37 |
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| boris-42 | yfried: if we allow just to change credentials then no issues | 17:38 |
| boris-42 | yfried: okay let's make this happen | 17:38 |
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| boris-42 | okay moving to next topics | 17:38 |
| boris-42 | if there is no questions | 17:38 |
| yfried | boris-42: if you have problematic attributes, make them readonly until you solve the problem | 17:38 |
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| yfried | boris-42: lots of resources have readonly attributes | 17:38 |
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| boris-42 | yfried: ya | 17:39 |
| boris-42 | yfried: makes sense | 17:39 |
| boris-42 | #topic Free discussion | 17:39 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Free discussion (Meeting topic: Rally)" | 17:39 | |
| boris-42 | you no need to pay to talk=) | 17:40 |
| boris-42 | so ok | 17:40 |
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| yfried | https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:open+project:stackforge/rally+branch:master+topic:IPv6_Tests,n,z | 17:40 |
| yfried | can I? | 17:40 |
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| msdubov | boris-42: You told yesterday that we should make some changes to our docs structure? | 17:42 |
| boris-42 | yfried: ya sure | 17:42 |
| boris-42 | msdubov: so yfried first=) | 17:42 |
| yfried | ^ this topic introduces infra and scenario that tests IPv6 over v4 infra ("dual-stack") | 17:42 |
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| boris-42 | yfried: ok I will review them | 17:43 |
| yfried | I think it's very nice addition to existing code | 17:43 |
| boris-42 | when I find some free time to do that | 17:43 |
| meteorfox | yfried: cool | 17:44 |
| yfried | boris-42: point is, it helps to review it in the full context, instead of as independent patches | 17:44 |
| yfried | boris-42: and the guy the wrote it is leaving our team and would like to have it merged before he can no longer work on it | 17:44 |
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| boris-42 | yfried: oh ok | 17:45 |
| boris-42 | yfried: I will try to review them more often | 17:45 |
| yfried | boris-42: we need more eyes, as I am too close the this to find the real problems | 17:45 |
| yfried | boris-42: tnx | 17:45 |
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| yfried | boris-42: I'm available for questions if he's offline | 17:46 |
| boris-42 | yfried: ok great thanks | 17:46 |
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| boris-42 | yfried: anything else?) | 17:46 |
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| yfried | boris-42: nope | 17:47 |
| boris-42 | okay let's move to refactoring docs | 17:47 |
| boris-42 | #topic Refactoring docs | 17:47 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Refactoring docs (Meeting topic: Rally)" | 17:47 | |
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| boris-42 | so they looks great | 17:48 |
| boris-42 | but the code is in some kind of terrible state | 17:48 |
| boris-42 | =) | 17:48 |
| boris-42 | https://github.com/stackforge/rally/tree/master/doc/source to many files on top dir | 17:48 |
| boris-42 | and it's hard to understand structure of it | 17:48 |
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| meteorfox | boris-42: do you have a structure in mind for it? | 17:49 |
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| boris-42 | meteorfox: nope I don't but we can look at other projects | 17:49 |
| msdubov | boris-42: So your wish is basically to change the structure of the code, not of the documentation contents? | 17:49 |
| boris-42 | msdubov: I would like to change documentation as well | 17:50 |
| boris-42 | at least to discuss future steps | 17:50 |
| meteorfox | boris-42: how about if it mirrors the menu in rally.readthedocs.org | 17:50 |
| meteorfox | ? | 17:50 |
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| boris-42 | meteorfox: ya that will be nice | 17:50 |
| boris-42 | meteorfox: I think it can be organized with symlinks | 17:51 |
| boris-42 | like we have for future_request/specs and so on | 17:51 |
| boris-42 | at least I woudl recomend to take a look at other projects | 17:51 |
| boris-42 | https://github.com/openstack/nova/tree/master/doc/source | 17:52 |
| boris-42 | meteorfox: msdubov ^ for example Nova | 17:52 |
| boris-42 | they don't have hell in source dir | 17:52 |
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| yfried | boris-42: msdubov: re doc - can we get the "rally info" uploaded to docs as well? | 17:53 |
| boris-42 | yfried: I would wait for switching to plugin base | 17:53 |
| yfried | boris-42: well - is this actually a blocker for that? | 17:54 |
| boris-42 | yfried: after that we can use custom extensions for read the docs to generate such page | 17:54 |
| boris-42 | yfried: yep it is blocker | 17:54 |
| yfried | boris-42: ok | 17:54 |
| boris-42 | yfried: if you take a look at info code | 17:54 |
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| boris-42 | yfried: it is terrible | 17:54 |
| boris-42 | yfried: this will double amount of terrible cloud | 17:54 |
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| boris-42 | yfried: work with various plugins is not unfifed | 17:54 |
| yfried | boris-42: because I'm trying to get ppl to look at rally but they have to install rally to browse its content | 17:54 |
| boris-42 | wiich produce a lot of nasty code | 17:54 |
| boris-42 | yfried: i understand why we need this but I dislike writting code that shoul be fully rewritten | 17:55 |
| yfried | boris-42: I agree | 17:55 |
| yfried | I'll wait for you | 17:55 |
| boris-42 | yfried: it's better to concentrate on plugins | 17:55 |
| boris-42 | anf after that simplify rally info code and make this page | 17:55 |
| boris-42 | for docs | 17:56 |
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| boris-42 | so this is another interesting question | 17:56 |
| boris-42 | actually what we need is to | 17:56 |
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| boris-42 | replace Rally Plugins -> Plugins Reference | 17:56 |
| boris-42 | and add one more page API reference | 17:56 |
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| boris-42 | where we will have for now only CLI reference | 17:56 |
| boris-42 | and in future rally lib reference | 17:56 |
| boris-42 | msdubov: ^ | 17:57 |
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| boris-42 | ok I hope msdubov agree with us=) | 17:59 |
| boris-42 | but we are out of the time | 17:59 |
| boris-42 | #endmeeting | 17:59 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 17:59 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Mar 31 17:59:44 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 17:59 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/rally/2015/rally.2015-03-31-17.02.html | 17:59 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/rally/2015/rally.2015-03-31-17.02.txt | 17:59 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/rally/2015/rally.2015-03-31-17.02.log.html | 17:59 |
| * ayoung sneaks in and takes the good seat | 18:00 | |
| morganfainberg | dolphm, ayoung, dstanek, jamielennox, morganfainberg, stevemar, gyee, henrynash, topol, marekd, lbragstad, joesavak, shardy, fabiog, nkinder, lloydm, shrekuma, ksavich, hrybacki, rharwood, grantbow, vdreamarkitex, raildo, rodrigods, amakarov, ajayaa, hogepodge, breton, lhcheng, nonameentername, samueldmq, htruta, amolock, wanghong, fmarco76, davechen, dims | 18:00 |
| morganfainberg | https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/KeystoneMeeting#Main_Agenda | 18:00 |
| dstanek | o/ | 18:00 |
| rodrigods | o/ | 18:00 |
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| amakarov | o/ | 18:00 |
| henrynash | and happy DST to all | 18:00 |
| bknudson | yo | 18:00 |
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| bknudson | been there for a while. | 18:00 |
| henrynash | yep, we’re late to the party as usual | 18:00 |
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| lbragstad | o/ | 18:01 |
| stevemar | o/ | 18:01 |
| raildo | \o/ | 18:01 |
| ayoung | \m/(>.<)\m/ | 18:01 |
| samueldmq | o/ | 18:01 |
| henrynash | (ayoung should get out more) | 18:01 |
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| ayoung | \m/_ d(>.<)b _\m/ | 18:01 |
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| rodrigods | lol | 18:01 |
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| morganfainberg | #startmeeting keystone | 18:02 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Mar 31 18:02:29 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is morganfainberg. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 18:02 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 18:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:02 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'keystone' | 18:02 |
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| morganfainberg | Hello everyone! | 18:02 |
| samueldmq | :-) | 18:02 |
| morganfainberg | So a couple quick things | 18:03 |
| morganfainberg | Rc is next week. Please focus on bugs and bps that need review /code | 18:03 |
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| morganfainberg | The domain sql bp needs to be done by Thursday. | 18:03 |
| morganfainberg | This Thursday. | 18:03 |
| ayoung | link henrynash ? | 18:03 |
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| henrynash | it’s in the meeting agenda | 18:04 |
| morganfainberg | It's later in the agenda specifically ayoung | 18:04 |
| ayoung | cool | 18:04 |
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| henrynash | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/163322/ | 18:04 |
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| morganfainberg | #topic Hierarchical Projects support on Horizon | 18:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Hierarchical Projects support on Horizon (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:04 | |
| morganfainberg | samueldmq: ericksonsantos o/ | 18:04 |
| samueldmq | o/ | 18:04 |
| ericksonsantos | :) | 18:04 |
| samueldmq | hello, so ... | 18:04 |
| samueldmq | ericksonsantos and I have been working on adding support for hierarchical projects on Horizon | 18:04 |
| bknudson | guis are fancy! | 18:04 |
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| samueldmq | we then decided to add a point to this meeting to let you know what is going on | 18:05 |
| ayoung | This is for Kilo? | 18:05 |
| samueldmq | first, a blog post explaining what was implemented | 18:05 |
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| david-lyle | not Kilo | 18:05 |
| ayoung | Ok | 18:05 |
| samueldmq | ayoung, unfortunately no | 18:05 |
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| samueldmq | #link www.samueldmq.com/hierarchical-projects-on-horizon/ | 18:05 |
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| samueldmq | there we explain the approach we took for this first implementation | 18:06 |
| samueldmq | in which basically we show projects with their hierarchical name | 18:06 |
| samueldmq | which is its own name + parents names, separated by slashes | 18:06 |
| samueldmq | e.g GrandParent / Parent / Child | 18:06 |
| samueldmq | and we have some screenshots :) | 18:06 |
| bknudson | what if someone does hmt today, does horizon go crazy? | 18:06 |
| ayoung | nah, it just ignores what it doesn't know about. | 18:07 |
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| ayoung | You can;t create a nested project in Horizon today, right? | 18:07 |
| bknudson | I like the \ for the separator, just like windows. | 18:07 |
| samueldmq | ayoung, ++ no you cant | 18:07 |
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| samueldmq | if you guys want to try it out ... | 18:07 |
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| samueldmq | we have a demo running on 150.165.15.68, with Horizon credentials admin/nomoresecrete | 18:07 |
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| morganfainberg | best kind of feature. The kind that can be ignored if you don't want to use it ;) | 18:08 |
| samueldmq | we will keep it open until Saturday, and then change the password | 18:08 |
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| ayoung | I assume you are working with UX type people to make sure that the choices you are making are sane? | 18:08 |
| samueldmq | and if someone still wants to have access, can ask myself or ericksonsantos | 18:08 |
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| samueldmq | ayoung, yeah we already worked with some horizon guys, but this is a first implementation | 18:09 |
| samueldmq | ayoung, which means it can be changed | 18:09 |
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| samueldmq | ayoung, that's the reason we are requesting your feedback | 18:09 |
| samueldmq | so feel free to try it out and give some feedback :) | 18:09 |
| morganfainberg | s/can/will be (but because it'll evolve) | 18:09 |
| samueldmq | morganfainberg, that's all I think | 18:09 |
| samueldmq | morganfainberg, sure | 18:09 |
| ayoung | samueldmq, we're Keystoners. We are not UX people. We make UGLY UI | 18:09 |
| bknudson | neat | 18:09 |
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| samueldmq | ayoung, some ppl may have some ux background | 18:10 |
| ayoung | david-lyle, who from the Horizon side has provided input? | 18:10 |
| samueldmq | ayoung, I'm a keystoner and was able to make it happen :) | 18:10 |
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| ayoung | samueldmq, my point exactly | 18:10 |
| morganfainberg | samueldmq: don't advertise too loudly, you'll get roped in on more stuff. ;) | 18:10 |
| ayoung | I know better than to write UI | 18:10 |
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| david-lyle | I have and I think samueldmq is working with Piet | 18:10 |
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| morganfainberg | If you write good UI. | 18:10 |
| samueldmq | morganfainberg, k :) | 18:11 |
| david-lyle | at least I hope | 18:11 |
| samueldmq | ayoung, didnt intend to be annoying, sorry :) | 18:11 |
| ayoung | no, not at all | 18:11 |
| samueldmq | david-lyle, yes we are working with Piet's team | 18:11 |
| david-lyle | Piet is cordinateing most of the UX work in horizon these days | 18:11 |
| samueldmq | david-lyle, ++ | 18:11 |
| * morganfainberg tosses samueldmq at david-lyle "he says he can do UI. I'm sure he can do UI design for horizon and all the keystone stuff he is doing today too!" /snark | 18:11 | |
| ayoung | samueldmq, and it is great you are doing this. I just want to make sure you are getting feedback fromthe right folks | 18:11 |
| morganfainberg | ;) | 18:11 |
| samueldmq | ayoung, yeah getting feedback from ppl from UX (Piet's team, as david-lyle said) | 18:12 |
| ayoung | good | 18:12 |
| samueldmq | ayoung, and yours as well, just to add | 18:12 |
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| samueldmq | morganfainberg, not that much :p | 18:13 |
| * morganfainberg can complain about ux, but can't design a UI to save a life (and that is the story I am sticking to...) | 18:13 | |
| samueldmq | morganfainberg, our implementation is simple and we worked hard (even if it was simple ) | 18:13 |
| ayoung | OK...we have the link. we'll beat on it. Next? | 18:13 |
| * morganfainberg hides graphic arts portfolio and previous UI design under the rug. | 18:13 | |
| morganfainberg | Yes next topic. | 18:13 |
| samueldmq | k thanks :) | 18:13 |
| morganfainberg | #topic Domain-SQL, final reviews | 18:14 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Domain-SQL, final reviews (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:14 | |
| morganfainberg | henrynash: o/ | 18:14 |
| henrynash | ok, so this is the last (server) piece of domain-specific sql | 18:14 |
| morganfainberg | henrynash: I have feedback on fixing the race. But I'll step in after you speak | 18:14 |
| henrynash | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/163322/ | 18:14 |
| ayoung | LDAP only makes sense to me. Any need for SQL? | 18:14 |
| henrynash | ayoung: ? | 18:14 |
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| morganfainberg | henrynash: a comment I made on the review. | 18:14 |
| bknudson | I'm ok with documenting limitations for an experimental feature. | 18:14 |
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| ayoung | henrynash, is there a demand for sql idenityt in a domain specific config? | 18:15 |
| bknudson | needs to be fixed to get rid of experimental. | 18:15 |
| morganfainberg | bknudson: ++ that might be the way to land it all in kilo vs the fix I am thinking. | 18:15 |
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| henrynash | morganfainberg: yes, I saw that…although I think we have seen demand for the sql driver specification…ayoung, didn’t you see ause for this | 18:15 |
| henrynash | bknudson: agreed | 18:15 |
| ayoung | henrynash, wasn't me, but I can see it if I squint | 18:15 |
| ayoung | two caompnies want to keep their users in separeate databases for SOX or some other reason | 18:16 |
| henrynash | morganfainberg: I’ll investigate | 18:16 |
| ayoung | but, I thought LDAP was the primary driver. | 18:16 |
| morganfainberg | henrynash: until we support multiple sql pools/connections it is fair to say the main driver is sql vs a domain specific. But that's my view. | 18:16 |
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| ayoung | So, talking practial, is there any real demand for sql, or are we just being thorough? | 18:16 |
| morganfainberg | And override any domain (even default) to use ldap if you want something like that. | 18:16 |
| henrynash | ayoung: I thought we saw a use of haveing a specific domain (sql) for service users | 18:16 |
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| ayoung | henrynash, that is different. That would still be in the main identity backend | 18:17 |
| henrynash | ayoung: it *could* be | 18:17 |
| morganfainberg | henrynash: I'm just saying we invert the use-case, override default domain to be ldap, all domains without a specific driver are sql. | 18:17 |
| morganfainberg | So you don't even have to check if there are multiple sqls, just "you don't" do it at all. | 18:18 |
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| henrynash | morganfainberg: I think we test that exact case in the unit tetss | 18:18 |
| ayoung | henrynash, I thought the expectation was sql for the main one, supporting multiple domains. LDAP in domain specific backends, to allow for live deployment of new LDAP servers in B2B cases | 18:18 |
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| morganfainberg | henrynash: we could just say sql isn't domain specific. *shrug* it would solve the sql driver check. | 18:19 |
| ayoung | morganfainberg, I think that is a good approach, at least for Kilo. If we do that, and it proves to limiting, we do more in Liberty | 18:19 |
| henrynash | ok, so action is for me to confirm wheteher we can bypass the problem in this fashion | 18:19 |
| bknudson | ayoung: I think that is the expectation but it's not how it's implemented now. | 18:19 |
| ayoung | bknudson, yeah, that was my understanding | 18:19 |
| morganfainberg | henrynash: for the race: document it, *or* use optimistic locking. | 18:19 |
| henrynash | morganfainberg: agreed | 18:20 |
| bknudson | I'm fine with documenting it. | 18:20 |
| morganfainberg | henrynash: if optimistic locking is easy do that. Documentation is minimum for Thursday this week. | 18:20 |
| bknudson | please update the review with the known limitation | 18:20 |
| henrynash | morganfainberg: ++ | 18:20 |
| morganfainberg | We can fix the locking in liberty if it is too much to do by Thursday. | 18:20 |
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| henrynash | morganfainberg: and when you say the race/locking…you mean the sql issue or teh get/update of configs not being atomic | 18:21 |
| morganfainberg | Yep | 18:21 |
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| morganfainberg | You make the workflow update where thing = what you have now | 18:21 |
| morganfainberg | And if that doesn't update any rows, you know the data has changed. | 18:22 |
| morganfainberg | It's the same way we handle consuming trusts with limited uses. | 18:22 |
| bknudson | the code now updates every row in a separate transaction | 18:22 |
| bknudson | I think? | 18:22 |
| henrynash | sorry, for clarity which issue are you referring to….teh get/update issue? | 18:23 |
| henrynash | bknudosn: yes | 18:23 |
| morganfainberg | Yes the get/update | 18:23 |
| bknudson | each config option is a row | 18:23 |
| henrynash | morganfainberg: yes, I look at what we did for trusts etc. | 18:23 |
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| henrynash | morganfainger: ok, thx | 18:23 |
| henrynash | ok, I think I got what I need to do by Thursday | 18:23 |
| ayoung | henrynash, shout if you need help | 18:24 |
| henrynash | ayoung: thx | 18:24 |
| morganfainberg | henrynash: don't worry too much about get/update by thurs. Like I said liberty we can work on that. | 18:24 |
| morganfainberg | #Topic rc bugs | 18:25 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "rc bugs (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:25 | |
| henrynash | morganfainberg: agreed…and I’ll buy a coconut to to any customer taht finds that in Kilo anyway | 18:25 |
| morganfainberg | Please do not assign bugs to the rc milestone unless they are really a blocker for release. When in doubt, bug me. | 18:25 |
| henrynash | morganfainberg: apologies, guilty…but couldn’t work out how to use teh rc.potential tag? | 18:26 |
| bknudson | are there any blockers? | 18:26 |
| morganfainberg | At this point unless it is a show stopper we aren't adding it to the rc list. | 18:26 |
| morganfainberg | henrynash: lp was being dumb I couldn't set it either. | 18:26 |
| morganfainberg | bknudson: the critical security one, the high prio ones. The others should all be in progress and easy-ish to land. | 18:26 |
| morganfainberg | bknudson: there is also an index on a sql table that should land if at all possible. | 18:27 |
| ayoung | Do we have a link/query for RC bugs | 18:27 |
| lbragstad | https://launchpad.net/keystone/+milestone/kilo-rc1 | 18:27 |
| lbragstad | #link https://launchpad.net/keystone/+milestone/kilo-rc1 | 18:27 |
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| bknudson | probably shouldn't be wishlist bugs on here... | 18:28 |
| morganfainberg | Oh the trustor disabled =403 not 404. That is not api breaking to fix. And should be fixed. | 18:28 |
| dstanek | bknudson: maybe someone really, really wants it | 18:28 |
| bknudson | if you wish hard enough... | 18:28 |
| morganfainberg | henrynash: hey that bug got back on the milestone! :P | 18:29 |
| henrynash | which one? | 18:29 |
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| morganfainberg | Or lp is dumb | 18:29 |
| morganfainberg | The wish list one. | 18:29 |
| bknudson | seems like release-blocking should be limited to something that is really critical or can't be backported. | 18:29 |
| henrynash | I never touched it, guv | 18:29 |
| morganfainberg | bknudson: wish list removed. The other bugs are like I said in progress and should land for "ux/this would suck but if it doesn't land by Friday I'm ok punting them" | 18:30 |
| morganfainberg | Except the high prio ones. | 18:30 |
| ayoung | morganfainberg, I'll take https://bugs.launchpad.net/keystone/+bug/1430951 which was triaged but unassigned | 18:31 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1430951 in Keystone "Revocation causes duplicate (and overly broad?) events in revocation table" [High,Triaged] - Assigned to Adam Young (ayoung) | 18:31 |
| henrynash | is there a kilo-rc-potential tag? | 18:31 |
| morganfainberg | ayoung: thanks. | 18:31 |
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| morganfainberg | henrynash: there is. Just tag the bug. But to be fair I don't want to add more to that list. | 18:31 |
| lbragstad | I think there are only a couple that don't have patches proposed for review | 18:31 |
| morganfainberg | Unless it is really a show-stopper. | 18:31 |
| bknudson | I think there's already a review for https://bugs.launchpad.net/keystone/+bug/1430951 | 18:31 |
| stevemar | bknudson, link it in the bug? | 18:32 |
| bknudson | can't find it now. | 18:32 |
| morganfainberg | Ok let's move on, I have one more item and we can be done early ;) | 18:33 |
| bknudson | found it? https://review.openstack.org/#/c/141854/ | 18:33 |
| ayoung | I'll make sure it is covered, either by existing review or new code | 18:33 |
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| bknudson | oh, that was similar but not the same. | 18:33 |
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| ayoung | Nope, that is a different issue | 18:33 |
| ayoung | I think I actually like his approach there | 18:33 |
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| stevemar | similar | 18:33 |
| morganfainberg | #topic Summit planning | 18:34 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Summit planning (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:34 | |
| lbragstad | whoop whoop! | 18:34 |
| stevemar | ohhh summit planning... neat | 18:34 |
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| lbragstad | get ready Canada | 18:34 |
| ayoung | So, instead of hanging out at the Hotel bar buying expensive scotch, we each pick up a bottle and share. | 18:34 |
| ayoung | That's really all I've got. | 18:34 |
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| morganfainberg | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/Keystone-liberty-summit-brainstorm | 18:35 |
| lbragstad | ayoung: are we getting Chocolate stout shakes? | 18:35 |
| morganfainberg | I will send the link via the ml as well. | 18:35 |
| ayoung | I really didn't care too much for them | 18:35 |
| morganfainberg | Feel free to toss ideas there. | 18:35 |
| ayoung | So...let's come up with something else. | 18:35 |
| morganfainberg | I don't have the specifics on how many slots fishbowl or otherwise we will get. | 18:35 |
| morganfainberg | In general I want this summit to be more like what our mid cycle has been. | 18:35 |
| morganfainberg | So, unless the next PTL changes that idea (if I'm not ptl next cycle) let's roll with that plan. | 18:36 |
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| morganfainberg | Get specs hashed out, etc. | 18:36 |
| ayoung | morganfainberg, you keep hoping.... | 18:37 |
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| morganfainberg | I also would like to see next cycle a stability / performance cycle with very low numbers of features. (Again subject to change with potential alternative PTL) | 18:37 |
| morganfainberg | Ok that's all I have | 18:37 |
| morganfainberg | #topic open discussion | 18:37 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:37 | |
| morganfainberg | Any thing else? | 18:37 |
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| jamielennox | i have a small one, henrynash -1ed me on https://review.openstack.org/#/c/162525/ because we don't do it in keystone | 18:38 |
| jamielennox | is there a reason we don't, or just because i haven't written it yet | 18:38 |
| lbragstad | morganfainberg: when do you want to have ideas hashed out based on the etherpad? | 18:38 |
| henrynash | quilty as charged, mlud | 18:38 |
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| henrynash | my -1 was about whether our test apis are part of out api documentation | 18:39 |
| bknudson | the client libs are different than keystone server wrt docs, so I don't think they both need to be the same. | 18:39 |
| morganfainberg | lbragstad: start now. We will circle up on it all on subsequent meetings and elsewhere. | 18:39 |
| lbragstad | morganfainberg: ok, cool. Then group into buckets accordingly? | 18:39 |
| jamielennox | bknudson: there's also no reason to do it in server docs either | 18:39 |
| morganfainberg | lbragstad: it'll be open till we have a schedule. ;). Yep | 18:39 |
| bknudson | does keystoneclient provide fixtures? | 18:39 |
| jamielennox | henrynash: IMO tests are not public api, we can change, rename at will | 18:39 |
| henrynash | bknudson: agreed they are different, but not sure why we would make it different in this particular case | 18:39 |
| jamielennox | bknudson: yes, but they are in the public area, not the tests dir | 18:40 |
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| bknudson | I'm fine with skipping the tests in docs. | 18:41 |
| morganfainberg | The official line is tests are public in that they exist. But nothing guaranteed beyond that. | 18:41 |
| morganfainberg | So yeah we could skip the docs. | 18:41 |
| jamielennox | we just renamed ksc/tests/* ksc/tests/unit/* so there's no compat guarantee | 18:41 |
| bknudson | we don't keep them up to date anyways. | 18:41 |
| morganfainberg | jamielennox: no tests do not have a compat guarantee. | 18:41 |
| henrynash | jamielennox: ok, I’ll remove my -1 and I’ll submita patch for the server to remove the tests from teh api docs as well | 18:42 |
| jamielennox | henrynash: cheers | 18:42 |
| henrynash | good to have raised | 18:42 |
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| jamielennox | actually on that dstanek did you ever figure out moving the apidoc ext to oslo - or what the pbr issue was that needs it in each repo? | 18:43 |
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| jamielennox | i see notes all through there about various bugs and they mostly seem fixe | 18:43 |
| jamielennox | d | 18:43 |
| dstanek | jamielennox: for my two api doc reviews? | 18:43 |
| bknudson | I tried to turn on warnings are errors in oslo.config and ran into that apidoc issue. | 18:43 |
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| bknudson | there was a thread on the mailing list recently about pbr release. | 18:44 |
| dstanek | my understanding is that the issue isn't fixed yet in the released pbr; my changed was merged, but because of other brokeness they have been releasing pbr from a branch | 18:44 |
| jamielennox | for example https://github.com/openstack/keystone/blob/master/doc/ext/apidoc.py#L15 | 18:44 |
| bknudson | https://bugs.launchpad.net/pbr/+bug/1260495 -- we need fix released. | 18:45 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1260495 in python-keystoneclient "Setting autodoc_tree_index_modules makes documentation builds fail" [Low,Confirmed] - Assigned to David Stanek (dstanek) | 18:45 |
| jamielennox | ah ok, i guess i just saw the age and assumed it would be out, i only poked around it briefly and then just c&p the extension | 18:46 |
| dstanek | yeah, maybe i'll look at pbr and see if i can help fix the issues they are having | 18:46 |
| jamielennox | but it's now in most repos i set up | 18:46 |
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| morganfainberg | Anything else? Before we call it a bit early? | 18:47 |
| morganfainberg | 3... | 18:47 |
| dstanek | jamielennox: the fix i did? in what repos? | 18:48 |
| jamielennox | dstanek: i copy the doc/ext/apidoc.py file to other repos | 18:48 |
| jamielennox | recently ksc-kerberos doa-kerberos and something else i can't remember | 18:48 |
| dstanek | jamielennox: ah, that can be deleted after pbr is fixed | 18:48 |
| jamielennox | yep | 18:48 |
| jamielennox | didn't know about there release issues | 18:48 |
| dstanek | we were the only project effected by the fix since we were the only ones using the feature | 18:49 |
| ayoung | jamielennox, do I need an updated client to test the last DOA Federation code? | 18:49 |
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| jamielennox | ayoung: no i don't think so | 18:49 |
| stevemar | shouldn't | 18:49 |
| ayoung | OK | 18:50 |
| morganfainberg | Let's move these | 18:50 |
| morganfainberg | Convos to -keystone | 18:50 |
| stevemar | k | 18:50 |
| morganfainberg | They aren't needed for the whole team. | 18:50 |
| morganfainberg | thanks all! Rc next week! Review code! | 18:50 |
| morganfainberg | #endmeeting | 18:50 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 18:50 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Mar 31 18:50:41 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 18:50 |
| samueldmq | yep, thanks | 18:50 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2015/keystone.2015-03-31-18.02.html | 18:50 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2015/keystone.2015-03-31-18.02.txt | 18:50 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2015/keystone.2015-03-31-18.02.log.html | 18:50 |
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| tchaypo | Infra time! | 18:57 |
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| cinerama | hi folks | 18:59 |
| clarkb | hello | 18:59 |
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| samueldmq | hi | 18:59 |
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| anteaya | o/ | 19:00 |
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| jeblair | howdy infra folks | 19:00 |
| rdopiera | hi | 19:00 |
| TheJulia | o/ | 19:00 |
| nibalizer | o/ | 19:00 |
| yolanda | o/ | 19:00 |
| mordred | o/ | 19:00 |
| fungi | howdy | 19:00 |
| jeblair | #startmeeting infra | 19:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Mar 31 19:00:43 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is jeblair. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 19:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 19:00 |
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| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:00 | |
| pcrews | o/ | 19:00 |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'infra' | 19:00 |
| jeblair | #link agenda https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/InfraTeamMeeting#Agenda_for_next_meeting | 19:00 |
| jeblair | #link previous meeting http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2015/infra.2015-03-24-19.00.html | 19:00 |
| jeblair | #topic Actions from last meeting | 19:00 |
| ianw | o/ | 19:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Actions from last meeting (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:00 | |
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| jeblair | anteaya cause a problem statement and requirements regarding election tooling to be sent to the infra list so various solutions can be discussed | 19:00 |
| jeblair | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/XU4qRouXIH | 19:00 |
| jeblair | anteaya: thanks for that | 19:01 |
| GheRivero | o/ | 19:01 |
| anteaya | welcome | 19:01 |
| tristanC | Hello! | 19:01 |
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| zaro | o/ | 19:01 |
| krtaylor | o/ | 19:01 |
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| jeblair | anteaya: i think you are expecting some input on that. and i think i promised to give you some. | 19:01 |
| anteaya | so unless we have some more edtis to that or any objections I'll send that out this afternoon | 19:01 |
| anteaya | jeblair: you mentioned it yes | 19:01 |
| jeblair | so i should do that before then, then. :) | 19:01 |
| anteaya | jeblair: thanks, that would be most welcome, thank you | 19:01 |
| anteaya | and tristanC not sure if you have had a chance to review the etherpad yet | 19:02 |
| anteaya | tristanC: let me know what you think | 19:02 |
| jeblair | and anyone else, pitch in soon. i think the point was to try to make the requirements clear so we can effectively propose and evaluate solutions | 19:02 |
| anteaya | yes | 19:02 |
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| jeblair | clarkb make sure bandersnatch is being updated | 19:02 |
| jeblair | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/167382/ | 19:02 |
| clarkb | anteaya: don't forget to clean up my comment about self editing | 19:03 |
| anteaya | clarkb: will do | 19:03 |
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| jeblair | clarkb: did a thing^ yay! :) | 19:03 |
| jeblair | i think that's self-explanator | 19:03 |
| jeblair | y | 19:03 |
| clarkb | I did, it just needs another +2 then either I can approve or someone else | 19:03 |
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| jeblair | fungi send announcement email for renames | 19:03 |
| jeblair | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2015-March/059948.html | 19:03 |
| fungi | happened | 19:03 |
| jeblair | fungi did that and more! | 19:03 |
| fungi | and how | 19:03 |
| jeblair | jeblair document openstack id deployment mechanism in http://ci.openstack.org/openstackid.html | 19:04 |
| jeblair | #action jeblair document openstack id deployment mechanism in http://ci.openstack.org/openstackid.html | 19:04 |
| jeblair | jeblair did not do that thing | 19:04 |
| jeblair | :( | 19:04 |
| asselin_ | o/ | 19:04 |
| anteaya | that is okay, we have this week | 19:04 |
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| jeblair | #topic Schedule next project renames | 19:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Schedule next project renames (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:04 | |
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| jeblair | so there's murano; no further communication on that change | 19:04 |
| jeblair | are any murano people around? | 19:04 |
| fungi | if someone comes up with a bit more time to test the utf8 conversion, we could consider doing it along with the murano move | 19:04 |
| mordred | ++ | 19:05 |
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| jeblair | zaro: are you still working on that? | 19:05 |
| clarkb | also did we get the xstatic package rename correct and the fallout yesterday was unrelated to the new name? | 19:05 |
| fungi | serg_mel seems to not be in here | 19:05 |
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| jeblair | clarkb: we got it correct. someone deleted the old name from pypi. | 19:05 |
| clarkb | aiui that is the case but may be worth following up on to make sure that doesn't need more changes | 19:05 |
| zaro | jeblair: sorry i dropped the ball on that. will do it this week. | 19:05 |
| clarkb | jeblair: gotcha | 19:05 |
| jeblair | zaro: np | 19:05 |
| jeblair | okay, we'll wait for the murano folks to re-engage | 19:06 |
| anteaya | clarkb: as fungi explained to me we have no control over someone deleting a package from pypi that is in global requirements | 19:06 |
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| fungi | other than to ask them to please put it back | 19:06 |
| clarkb | anteaya: yup I was worried that we didn't get the rename correct | 19:06 |
| jeblair | i don't think anyone knows what's going on with gantt yet. | 19:06 |
| fungi | or to stop depending on it | 19:06 |
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| jeblair | i don't actually know the motivation for the gantt discussion? | 19:07 |
| anteaya | clarkb: yup | 19:07 |
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| jeblair | is it just cleaning up the openstack namespace? | 19:07 |
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| fungi | yes | 19:07 |
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| anteaya | jeblair: yes it appears to be | 19:07 |
| anteaya | andereas likes things in order | 19:07 |
| jeblair | if so, i'd prefer to just let it sit until someone decides to either do something with it or that nothing will ever be done with it | 19:07 |
| bauzas | hey | 19:07 |
| mordred | jeblair: ++ | 19:07 |
| bauzas | \o | 19:07 |
| fungi | "it's a seemingly abandoned effort in an ostensibly official repo namespace" seems to be the entirety of the concern | 19:07 |
| jeblair | it seems like folks are saying 'this might still happen in the future' | 19:07 |
| anteaya | jeblair: I agree | 19:08 |
| * mordred has submitted a patch to gantt to delete all the files | 19:08 | |
| mordred | fwiw | 19:08 |
| bauzas | mordred: and I +2'd it | 19:08 |
| mordred | bauzas: woot! | 19:08 |
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| jeblair | mordred: that should provide more data :) | 19:08 |
| anteaya | there is a thread on the mailing list about what to call the effort so they can't yet agree on naming | 19:08 |
| mordred | oh - it failed the docs job | 19:08 |
| bauzas | so yeah, agreed on the plan to clean up the repo | 19:08 |
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| bauzas | mordred: saw that, probably needs a recheck | 19:09 |
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| jeblair | bauzas: are you okay leaving it there for now until there's a plan to move forward? | 19:09 |
| fungi | anteaya: well, i think that's more around avoiding using the gantt name to refer to other activities related to scheduler decomposition | 19:09 |
| bauzas | jeblair: I like mordred's idea to clean up | 19:09 |
| bauzas | jeblair: and keep it as it is | 19:09 |
| anteaya | fungi: okay well in any case, there is lack of agreement | 19:09 |
| jeblair | ok. | 19:09 |
| bauzas | fungi: I sent an email about that | 19:09 |
| fungi | yep, i read it | 19:09 |
| * fungi probably spends too much time trying to read a lot of what crosses the -dev ml | 19:10 | |
| bauzas | http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2015-March/060179.html | 19:10 |
| jeblair | #agreed merge mordred's change to delete all content from gantt repo, but otherwise, leave as-is until there is a more substantive plan to move forward with the effort or it is truly abandoned | 19:10 |
| jeblair | anyone disagree with that ^ ? | 19:10 |
| * fungi agrees | 19:10 | |
| * anteaya has no problem with that | 19:10 | |
| clarkb | sounds like a plan to me | 19:10 |
| jesusaurus | o/ | 19:10 |
| bauzas | I also have to check with the Foundation about the legals for the codename | 19:10 |
| bauzas | +1 | 19:10 |
| jeblair | (i can undo it if we do, fwiw) | 19:10 |
| jeblair | cool, sounds like we're okay then, and there are no pending project renames | 19:11 |
| jeblair | bauzas: thanks! :) | 19:11 |
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| jeblair | #topic Priority Efforts (Swift logs) | 19:11 |
| jeblair | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:open+topic:enable_swift,n,z | 19:11 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Priority Efforts (Swift logs) (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:11 | |
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| jeblair | looks like the footer changes are still outstanding and could use a review | 19:12 |
| clarkb | jeblair: we are waiting on your response to jhesketh at https://review.openstack.org/#/c/167158/2 | 19:12 |
| clarkb | jeblair: I think the footer changes all have the necessary +2s though | 19:12 |
| jeblair | i think jhesketh is back from leave so we can progress there | 19:12 |
| jeblair | cool, will review | 19:12 |
| jeblair | #topic Priority Efforts (Nodepool DIB) | 19:12 |
| jeblair | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:open+topic:dib-nodepool,n,z | 19:12 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Priority Efforts (Nodepool DIB) (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:13 | |
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| jeblair | mordred: have your etherpad link handy? | 19:13 |
| mordred | yeah - one sec | 19:13 |
| jeblair | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/dib-nodepool-merges | 19:13 |
| jeblair | found it | 19:13 |
| mordred | https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/dib-nodepool-merges | 19:13 |
| mordred | oh | 19:13 |
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| mordred | so - this is pretty darned near close | 19:13 |
| mordred | all of the pieces now exist, pending code review and bug finding | 19:13 |
| jeblair | and the etherpad provides some nice narrative structure so we can see how it will all fall in to place | 19:14 |
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| mordred | given the nature of the thing, it still make take a week or two to finish landing, as some of these changes we'll want to watch | 19:14 |
| mordred | and as clarkb has pointed out, we'll need to test that devstack runs properly on the -minimal based images | 19:14 |
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| mordred | but I think we'd have to do that if we modifed the cloud images to remove cloud-init as well, because $unknown_knockon_effects | 19:15 |
| mordred | but we're quite close | 19:15 |
| jeblair | mordred: i reviewed all the infra changes in there yesterday, i can probably do another pass to catch updates today or tomorrow | 19:15 |
| mordred | jeblair: I've rebased a few things since then | 19:15 |
| clarkb | I am trying to review the related changes and get my nodepool changes for multiple image types up to par | 19:16 |
| mordred | clarkb: we shoudl add that change to the etherpad | 19:16 |
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| jeblair | i think it's there | 19:16 |
| mordred | if we haven't already | 19:16 |
| mordred | cool | 19:16 |
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| clarkb | yup I added it | 19:17 |
| jeblair | anything else to talk about here? | 19:17 |
| yolanda | so it will be affecting in some way to that: https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/Nodepool_benchmarks . Shall i add this to that etherpad as well? | 19:17 |
| fungi | working through comparing the results of 164447 on various devstack-.* sample nodes from our providers and comparing the result to the equivalent bare-.* samples | 19:17 |
| fungi | oh, we were going to briefly bikeshed on new-world-order platform identifiers | 19:17 |
| mordred | oh yeah | 19:17 |
| mordred | I'd like to suggestion we name our things $distro-$release once there is no bare/trusty distinction | 19:18 |
| clarkb | we could do ubuntu14.04-timestamp and centos7-timestamp | 19:18 |
| jeblair | yolanda: i think they are separate efforts | 19:18 |
| mordred | clarkb: I'd say trusty not 14.04 | 19:18 |
| fungi | since we don't have an equivalent devstack-centos6 worker to move bare-centos6 jobs onto, i need to make something. best not to call it "devstack-centos6" since we won't likely run devstack on it | 19:18 |
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| mordred | basically, I don't thin kwe should have things named centos6 and centos7 if we don't also have ubuntutrusty | 19:19 |
| mordred | it's a small bikeshed | 19:19 |
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| fungi | and because i patterned dib's release/version support on the idea i could match it to our node labels, i'll want to tweak that too if we want to use something different than we do now | 19:19 |
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| mordred | and then I think because ubuntutrusty looks weird, we should add a - | 19:19 |
| fungi | er, s/dib/bindep/ | 19:19 |
| mordred | so centos-7, centos-6, ubuntu-trusty, fedora-21 | 19:19 |
| fungi | though dib also has something similar apparently. so converging our identifier format would be good, i think | 19:19 |
| jeblair | what's the dib thing that is similar? | 19:20 |
| greghaynes | that maps to DIB's $DISTRO_NAME-$DIB_RELEASE, | 19:20 |
| fungi | anyway, if there are no objections to mordred's proposal, i'll go with centos-6 as the new node label | 19:20 |
| greghaynes | the list mordred wrote maps to that | 19:20 |
| * anteaya doesn't object | 19:20 | |
| jeblair | greghaynes: does that match what mordred is sugg... | 19:20 |
| jeblair | cool :) | 19:20 |
| jeblair | clarkb: okay with $distro-$release? | 19:21 |
| mordred | ok - now what color trusty do we want? | 19:21 |
| clarkb | jeblair: sure | 19:21 |
| greghaynes | theres a caveat with centos7 actually, but thats a dib bug | 19:21 |
| clarkb | I only suggested numbers for consistency ut I don't care | 19:21 |
| mordred | greghaynes: and it's fine with the centos-minimal element :) | 19:21 |
| fungi | with the expectation that we'll do ubuntu-something as well (i don't care if we mix release codenames and version numbers personally) | 19:21 |
| clarkb | its all going to get grepped and sed'd the same either way | 19:21 |
| jeblair | mordred: numbers or names? | 19:21 |
| mordred | I think trusty is the common form for ubuntu, and 7 is the common for centos | 19:21 |
| mordred | so I think we shoudl use those | 19:21 |
| mordred | if we have debian images, I think we shoudl use names too | 19:22 |
| jeblair | mordred: and numbers for fedora? | 19:22 |
| mordred | because I _CERTAINLY_ have no idea what number jessieis | 19:22 |
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| fungi | yeah, it's more that centos just doesn't have good release names | 19:22 |
| jeblair | cause fedora does have names | 19:22 |
| mordred | jeblair: yes | 19:22 |
| mordred | I don't hear people use them as much - but I could be very wrong about that | 19:22 |
| greghaynes | DIB is all name based fwiw | 19:22 |
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| fungi | greghaynes: what does dib call centos 6 and 7? | 19:22 |
| greghaynes | er, no | 19:22 |
| jeblair | greghaynes: so it uses fedora-beefy-miracle? | 19:23 |
| mordred | so ... fedora uses numbesr for fedora-minimal | 19:23 |
| * fungi loves that name | 19:23 | |
| greghaynes | thats wrong, yea ;) its name based for ubuntu, number for everything else | 19:23 |
| mordred | you have to pass in 21 to $DIB_RELEASE | 19:23 |
| mordred | otherwise the chroot building will not work | 19:23 |
| greghaynes | but we can incorporate beefy-miracle | 19:23 |
| mordred | it really has to do with mirror paths | 19:23 |
| fungi | so maybe "gravitate toward current dib behavior, whatever that is" is what we're suggesting? | 19:23 |
| mordred | we cannot, sadly, use beefy-miracle | 19:23 |
| jeblair | #agreed use $distro-$release (eg 'ubuntu-trusty', and 'fedora-21') for image names, matching usage in dib where possible | 19:23 |
| jeblair | look good ^ ? | 19:24 |
| mordred | jeblair: ++ | 19:24 |
| ianw | we don't use the names for fedora, but then they use things like "Schrödinger" which introduces other types of fun | 19:24 |
| greghaynes | jeblair: ++ | 19:24 |
| fungi | great! thanks for suffering through the bikeshed | 19:24 |
| mordred | fungi: should we paint our trusty purple? | 19:24 |
| jeblair | #topic Priority Efforts (Migration to Zanata) | 19:24 |
| jeblair | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:open+topic:zanata,n,z | 19:24 |
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| *** openstack changes topic to "Priority Efforts (Migration to Zanata) (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:24 | |
| cinerama | oh hi there | 19:25 |
| jeblair | are the changes ready for widespread review now? | 19:25 |
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| clarkb | I have reviewed a few of them and I would say they are ready | 19:25 |
| cinerama | jeblair: so we landed the base change. i think we can start reviewing and landing what i've got up on the board now | 19:25 |
| cinerama | i've also reviewed stevenk's fine work on the client | 19:25 |
| clarkb | cinerama: oh that merged, awesome | 19:25 |
| cinerama | and now i'm doing some testing with that to see what we'll need to add to it. | 19:26 |
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| jeblair | cool; should we, oh, spin up a server? | 19:26 |
| cinerama | jeblair: bit nervous there | 19:26 |
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| cinerama | jeblair: but i think we're close. i'd like to test a couple more things here | 19:27 |
| jeblair | cinerama: cool, no prob | 19:27 |
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| cinerama | maybe before EOW or early next week tho | 19:27 |
| anteaya | cinerama: if you say yes now it will probably take that long anyway | 19:27 |
| cinerama | anteaya: hey that's a good point | 19:27 |
| jeblair | also we should see if pleia2 wants to do most of the work there | 19:28 |
| anteaya | never turn down teh offer of a server | 19:28 |
| cinerama | anteaya (& others) this is my first rodeo so any advice is really helpful | 19:28 |
| fungi | i'm happy to volunteer to try and boot a server running that when you're satisfied that it's time | 19:28 |
| anteaya | cinerama: it is dev only anyway | 19:28 |
| anteaya | not much can go wrong | 19:28 |
| fungi | and feed you details on whatever puppet errors end up preventing it, if any | 19:28 |
| jeblair | fungi: (psst, volunteer to backup pleia2 booting a server so she can gain xp) | 19:29 |
| cinerama | jeblair: yeah i was thinking for pairing & stuff waiting for pleia2 before we set up might be good | 19:29 |
| fungi | or help pleia2 through it, yes! i missed that comment above ;) | 19:29 |
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| jeblair | she's out for a bit, right? will she be back next week? | 19:30 |
| * fungi didn't pay close attention to when she said she was getting back | 19:30 | |
| anteaya | yes next week | 19:30 |
| jeblair | so that will probably work with cinerama's timetable anyway | 19:30 |
| anteaya | and she has been wanting a server for some time | 19:31 |
| cinerama | that sounds good | 19:31 |
| anteaya | fwiw | 19:31 |
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| jeblair | anything else? | 19:31 |
| jeblair | #topic Priority Efforts (Downstream Puppet) | 19:31 |
| jeblair | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:open+topic:downstream-puppet,n,z | 19:31 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Priority Efforts (Downstream Puppet) (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:31 | |
| yolanda | from my side, i couldn't progress so much there but there are some changes with pending reviews, and some others i answered the reviews | 19:32 |
| asselin_ | I have log server puppet scripts refactored and waiting on reviews | 19:32 |
| nibalizer | nothing from me | 19:32 |
| yolanda | everything with topic downstream-puppet from my side | 19:32 |
| anteaya | asselin_: I said I would review and didn't sorry about that | 19:32 |
| jeblair | cool, plenty of stuff to review this week :) | 19:33 |
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| jeblair | #topic Priority Efforts (Askbot migration) | 19:33 |
| jeblair | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:open+topic:askbot-site,n,z | 19:33 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Priority Efforts (Askbot migration) (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:33 | |
| mordred | yay reviewing | 19:33 |
| jeblair | the pgsql module should be accepted into governance today and we can create that | 19:33 |
| jeblair | i think that's the big thing here, right? anything else? | 19:34 |
| fungi | oh, right, mrmartin is unavailable today | 19:34 |
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| fungi | yeah, once we get that created, we can move forward safely | 19:35 |
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| fungi | we could in theory move forward without it and add it later | 19:35 |
| clarkb | the solr stuff got in right? so indexing is working | 19:35 |
| fungi | reed sent an e-mail to the -community ml about scheduling the cut-over | 19:35 |
| * fungi finds a link | 19:35 | |
| reed | fungi, thanks | 19:36 |
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| fungi | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/community/2015-March/001102.html | 19:36 |
| jeblair | did reed just drop off? | 19:36 |
| fungi | seems so | 19:36 |
| jeblair | bad timing :( | 19:36 |
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| mordred | maybe san francisco got hit by an comet | 19:37 |
| anteaya | april 6 is easter monday | 19:37 |
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| fungi | anyway, the migration steps in the spec are confirmed working from my initial test, so the maintenance should be brief | 19:37 |
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| fungi | i loosely timed all the steps and should be able to finish within half an hour | 19:37 |
| jeblair | is that date set? | 19:38 |
| anteaya | fungi: how many people to do the work, just one or a group? | 19:38 |
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| fungi | anteaya: i can do the maintenance steps since i've already done them once | 19:38 |
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| clarkb | fungi: when you set up the dev instance? | 19:38 |
| fungi | just one person, plus some people to do usage tests to make sure it's still doing what it is supposed to | 19:38 |
| jeblair | i expect i'll be around then to pitch in if needed | 19:39 |
| jeblair | monday is an interesting choice though | 19:39 |
| anteaya | fungi: so I guess it is up to you, when do you want to do it? | 19:39 |
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| fungi | clarkb: it's not a dev instance, it's the new server, we just haven't switched dns over pending a second database dump | 19:39 |
| clarkb | fungi: gotcha | 19:39 |
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| clarkb | My only monday restriction is I have to afk about 6pm PDT | 19:39 |
| anteaya | I see 2 choices on the linked email | 19:39 |
| clarkb | which should be fine | 19:39 |
| fungi | yeah, reed what was the motivation for monday? because a lot of people won't be trying to use it on a common international holiday? | 19:40 |
| jeblair | if those are the choices, i think we should go with monday so that we can land the puppet changes beforehand | 19:41 |
| fungi | i'm guessing it was more that he looked at browser analytics to find weekly low-points in traffic volume | 19:41 |
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| anteaya | I can be around to help test | 19:41 |
| anteaya | so monday? | 19:41 |
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| fungi | wfm | 19:42 |
| jeblair | #info ask.o.o migration probably happening on Monday April 6th, 10am PDT | 19:42 |
| jeblair | :) | 19:42 |
| jeblair | #topic Puppet Testing | 19:42 |
| jeblair | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/164908/ | 19:42 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Puppet Testing (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:42 | |
| fungi | i'll follow up to the ml thread | 19:42 |
| jeblair | oops | 19:42 |
| jeblair | #topic Priority Efforts (Upgrading Gerrit) | 19:42 |
| jeblair | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:open+topic:gerrit-upgrade,n,z | 19:42 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Priority Efforts (Upgrading Gerrit) (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:42 | |
| reed | fungi, because monday is the first available day for me | 19:42 |
| fungi | reed: oh, okay great! | 19:43 |
| reed | fridays are bad at doing complex things, if they fail the weekend is damaged :) | 19:43 |
| jeblair | so we're waiting on utf8 testing | 19:43 |
| jeblair | are we still targeting 2.9, or is it worth looking at 2.10 yet? | 19:43 |
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| jeblair | i believe we have > 1 month, so even that should be doable | 19:43 |
| anteaya | zaro: are you about? | 19:43 |
| clarkb | 2.11 is already in rc | 19:44 |
| zaro | yes | 19:44 |
| clarkb | so it may be good to 2.10 if nothing bad comes up in testing just to get us closer? | 19:44 |
| anteaya | zaro: 2.10? thoughts? | 19:44 |
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| mordred | 2.10 may get us WIP plugin, yeah? | 19:44 |
| zaro | no. it won't | 19:44 |
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| zaro | i'm fine with trying 2.10 | 19:44 |
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| jeblair | #action zaro to continue utf8 testing | 19:45 |
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| jeblair | #action zaro test gerrit 2.10 | 19:45 |
| jeblair | zaro: what does wip plugin need? | 19:45 |
| anteaya | zaro: I'd like close connection functionality whichever one we select | 19:46 |
| zaro | uhmm, lots of stuff i think. | 19:46 |
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| zaro | REST endpoints don't seem to work | 19:46 |
| jeblair | wip plugin requires >=2.11 according to http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2015/infra.2015-02-10-19.01.html | 19:46 |
| zaro | some core stuff needs to get approved as well. still sitting in review | 19:46 |
| zaro | i took yesterday to test it more deeply and entered some issues in to the gerrit issue tracker. | 19:47 |
| jeblair | zaro: what's 'it' ^ ? | 19:47 |
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| zaro | https://code.google.com/p/gerrit/issues/list?can=2&q=WIP+plugin | 19:47 |
| jeblair | ah, wip plugin | 19:47 |
| jeblair | zaro: anything else we should be working on? | 19:48 |
| zaro | one change would ike to merge soon is | 19:48 |
| zaro | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/155448/ | 19:49 |
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| zaro | otherwise just reviews on gerrit-upgrade topic | 19:49 |
| jeblair | zaro: thanks! | 19:50 |
| jeblair | #topic Zuul layout split using (tristanC) | 19:50 |
| jeblair | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/152290/ | 19:50 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Zuul layout split using (tristanC) (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:50 | |
| jeblair | tristanC: around? | 19:50 |
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| tristanC | yes! | 19:50 |
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| clarkb | zaro: is that change in 2.10? | 19:50 |
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| zaro | which one? | 19:50 |
| jeblair | tristanC: you have a change to implement that! :) | 19:50 |
| tristanC | so well, the spec is up for review since sometime already... | 19:50 |
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| clarkb | zaro: 155448 | 19:50 |
| zaro | clarkb: ohh, not sure. i can check | 19:50 |
| jeblair | tristanC: yeah the spec merged: http://specs.openstack.org/openstack-infra/infra-specs/specs/zuul_split.html | 19:50 |
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| jeblair | tristanC: i want to try to let jhesketh's connection changes land soon | 19:51 |
| tristanC | and I experiment with a split of openstack current layout here: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/163243/ | 19:51 |
| jeblair | tristanC: it's getting close and the rebases for that are becoming troublesome | 19:52 |
| jeblair | tristanC: would it be okay to defer merging this until after that merges? | 19:52 |
| tristanC | jeblair: it should be easy to refactor/rebase though, not sure about the design though... I put the code in the layoutvalidator and it could be somewhere more meaningfull | 19:52 |
| jeblair | tristanC: okay, i'll try to review it before then to give you some feedback while we wait | 19:53 |
| tristanC | jeblair: that would be awesome :) | 19:53 |
| jeblair | #topic Puppet Testing | 19:53 |
| jeblair | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/164908/ | 19:53 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Puppet Testing (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:53 | |
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| jeblair | so there's a proposed change that added some puppet rspec tests to one of our puppet modules | 19:54 |
| jeblair | and it struck some of us as being unecessary | 19:54 |
| jeblair | i wonder if we can articulate a policy on puppet testing | 19:54 |
| anteaya | rspec is a whole ruby testing framework | 19:54 |
| clarkb | in particular about half of the tests essentially rewrite the module | 19:54 |
| jeblair | clarkb: indeed | 19:55 |
| anteaya | which if you are doing a lot of ruby is worthwhile | 19:55 |
| clarkb | which to me is redundant and does not add much value | 19:55 |
| anteaya | my sense of the crowd is you will find rspec more effort that is is worth | 19:55 |
| jeblair | i'm much more interested in functional tests; the puppet apply tests are really useful i think | 19:55 |
| jeblair | and since we have nodes with sudo, i bet we can do more | 19:55 |
| yolanda | i find that tests useful, but it's quite hard to find real problems there and discriminate from the others | 19:55 |
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| fungi | yeah, "will this break" is more helpful to me than "is this right" | 19:56 |
| jeblair | yolanda: absolutely. but problems do cause it to fail at least. it's kept _so many_ things from breaking production | 19:56 |
| jeblair | so i wonder if we could functionally test each module on a node? | 19:57 |
| yolanda | i know, i'd like if some efforts can be dedicated to cleanup the error logs there. Some are just warnings , or incorrect settings | 19:57 |
| jeblair | have a simple manifest that uses the module and runs for real on a node? | 19:57 |
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| clarkb | jeblair: we could probably ship a tiny site.pp/node def for each module and run that then do specific sanity cheks | 19:57 |
| clarkb | jeblair: ya that | 19:57 |
| fungi | yolanda: i fear that most of those errors are entirely because of running with --noop | 19:57 |
| yolanda | jeblair, i'm doing sort of a thing with vagrant actually | 19:57 |
| jeblair | fungi: i think you may be right | 19:57 |
| nibalizer | ++ to func tests | 19:57 |
| tchaypo | When I've looked at puppet-rspec before, my sense has always been that it's not worth the hassle - it's a whole nother language to learn and seems to largely result in you having to write your change twice in unrelated languages | 19:57 |
| zaro | clarkb: yes, https://review.openstack.org/#/c/155448/ is in gerrit stable-2.10 branch. | 19:58 |
| clarkb | jeblair: I like the idea, it should be simple and help us determine where the boundary between openstack_project and everything else is | 19:58 |
| anteaya | tchaypo: yes, that is rspec | 19:58 |
| clarkb | jeblair: then test that interface | 19:58 |
| tchaypo | Other people I know have used them successfully but they spent a lot more time writing ruby/puppet than I did | 19:58 |
| yolanda | so the changes i write, are tested functionally on a node, we could do something like that but using nodepool | 19:58 |
| jeblair | so is there an existing pattern/framework for "run a simple manifest and do some checks"? should we just write a manifest, and use something like envassert after it runs? | 19:58 |
| anteaya | it is written for tdd | 19:58 |
| mordred | anteaya: I agree - it seems like more hassle than it's worth | 19:58 |
| anteaya | mordred: for us, oh yes | 19:58 |
| anteaya | we don't tdd | 19:58 |
| mordred | for us. yes | 19:58 |
| nibalizer | my concern is do we want to spend 60 nodes per change to anything | 19:58 |
| mordred | well, not in that way | 19:58 |
| tchaypo | I get the feeling they're useful for people who spend a lot of time writing puppet but they raise the barrier for entry | 19:58 |
| mordred | tchaypo: ++ | 19:59 |
| clarkb | nibalizer: just one | 19:59 |
| jeblair | nibalizer: we could do this just on the modules | 19:59 |
| clarkb | jeblair: right, we would test the interfaces modules expose individually | 19:59 |
| fungi | right, functional test, not integration test | 19:59 |
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| clarkb | instead of the entire thing composed together | 19:59 |
| jeblair | nibalizer: so a puppet-httpd change would consume one node to run the single test to test the httpd module | 19:59 |
| nibalizer | ya okay | 19:59 |
| mordred | ++ | 19:59 |
| jeblair | nibalizer: and we would not run these on the system-config repo | 19:59 |
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| nibalizer | im super down for this | 19:59 |
| jeblair | reserving the puppet apply as the 'integration' test | 19:59 |
| jeblair | nibalizer: want to hack out a POC for one of the modules? | 20:00 |
| nibalizer | i took the gerrit module out the other day and it was rough using it standalone without prebuilt hiera | 20:00 |
| nibalizer | jeblair: yea its on my list | 20:00 |
| nibalizer | im thinking envassert | 20:00 |
| nibalizer | or beaker but :sigh: | 20:00 |
| anteaya | oh look at the time | 20:00 |
| jeblair | cool. i'll leave the feedback on 164908 about not wanting rspec | 20:00 |
| jeblair | thanks everyone! | 20:00 |
| jeblair | #endmeeting | 20:00 |
| nibalizer | ty ty | 20:00 |
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| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 20:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Mar 31 20:00:33 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 20:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2015/infra.2015-03-31-19.00.html | 20:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2015/infra.2015-03-31-19.00.txt | 20:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2015/infra.2015-03-31-19.00.log.html | 20:00 |
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| tchaypo | Do we have cross project in an hour? | 20:00 |
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| ttx | tchaypo: yes | 20:00 |
| fungi | tchaypo: yes | 20:00 |
| jeblair | ttx: o/ | 20:00 |
| tchaypo | I see items on the agenda | 20:00 |
| ttx | Anyone here for the TC meeting ? | 20:00 |
| markmcclain | o/ | 20:00 |
| tchaypo | Cool. See you then | 20:01 |
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| * mestery lurks | 20:01 | |
| sarob | o/ | 20:01 |
| mordred | o/ | 20:01 |
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| ttx | russellb, jgriffith, annegentle, mikal, devananda, vishy, jaypipes, sdague, dhellmann : around ? | 20:02 |
| vishy | o/ | 20:02 |
| sdague | o/ | 20:02 |
| russellb | o/ | 20:02 |
| ttx | #startmeeting tc | 20:02 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Mar 31 20:02:27 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is ttx. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 20:02 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 20:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:02 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'tc' | 20:02 |
| mikal | Hi | 20:02 |
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| mordred | hi mikal | 20:02 |
| ttx | Our agenda for today: | 20:02 |
| ttx | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/TechnicalCommittee | 20:02 |
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| ttx | #topic Final rubberstamp on "Add library stable release procedures/policy" | 20:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Final rubberstamp on "Add library stable release procedures/policy" (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:03 | |
| ttx | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/155072/ | 20:03 |
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| jaypipes | o/ | 20:03 |
| ttx | OK, I think it's time to approve it now, unless someone objects. | 20:03 |
| ttx | It's short of one vote but there are no objections, and we had the same discussion last week | 20:03 |
| ttx | so I'll count that as "consensus" | 20:03 |
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| mordred | do it | 20:03 |
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| ttx | done | 20:04 |
| ttx | Doug will be happy | 20:04 |
| ttx | #topic Add the Congress project | 20:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Add the Congress project (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:04 | |
| ttx | #link https://review.openstack.org/165204 | 20:04 |
| ttx | Big tent, level 3 | 20:04 |
| mikal | I just -1'ed that one if you need to refresh your gerrit tab | 20:04 |
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| vishy | you got my vote so that should be enough | 20:05 |
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| ttx | Got some nework issues right now, please discuss without waiting for me | 20:05 |
| mordred | sarob: you still working on this? | 20:06 |
| mikal | Ok, shall we talk about my -1 then? | 20:06 |
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| sarob | Yup | 20:06 |
| sarob | My patch | 20:06 |
| mikal | So, sarob just replied to my comment (I assume) | 20:06 |
| jeblair | mikal: i don't think a release should be a requirement -- i would like us to be able to handle projects that even _start_ within our structure | 20:06 |
| sarob | Mikal: yup | 20:06 |
| mordred | awesome | 20:06 |
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| ttx | jeblair: I tend to agree with that | 20:06 |
| mikal | jeblair: so, I worry about everyones random ideas ending up being openstack projects and never releasing | 20:06 |
| russellb | ttx: jeblair agree | 20:06 |
| ttx | I noted my small concern in a comment -- I know we are not supposed to judge maturity but more of a cultural fit, but I have a hard time seeing the current status and future of this project | 20:07 |
| mikal | jeblair: that's not the case with congress, but I worry about the precident | 20:07 |
| russellb | i dunno, this seems far enough along though that i'm not worried | 20:07 |
| mordred | sarob: btw - there is a stackalytics feature called corrections.json where you can remote unnatural commits from the calculations ... | 20:07 |
| russellb | it's not an empty repo or something | 20:07 |
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| sarob | Mordred: roger that | 20:07 |
| mordred | (in response to tim hinrichs comment about that one commit) | 20:07 |
| ttx | but then the comments I got in answer to my comment were reassuring | 20:07 |
| mikal | russellb: Agreed | 20:07 |
| mikal | As I said, I'm mostly concerned about the precident, not congress itself | 20:08 |
| russellb | mikal: interesting point though worth considering ... is "empty repo" enough? or if not, what is the line? | 20:08 |
| ttx | mikal: I guess if it goes nowhere and dies we could remove them | 20:08 |
| anteaya | ttx have we ever? | 20:08 |
| mestery | ttx: Is there a process for removing things defined yet? | 20:08 |
| russellb | not a process, but stuff has been killed | 20:08 |
| ttx | anteaya, mestery when "'things" were only the integrated release, we couldn't realease easily | 20:08 |
| sdague | yeh, honestly, I'm with mikal on the fact that I'd really like to see software release before we include them | 20:08 |
| mestery | Because if not, letting things in and trying to remove them will be challenging. | 20:08 |
| ttx | err.. remove easily | 20:08 |
| mikal | Its also not super onerous to ask Congress to do a release when ready and then come back | 20:08 |
| * mordred submitted a patch to kill gantt earlier today in fact | 20:08 | |
| ttx | In a big tent setting it's slightly easier to do | 20:09 |
| mikal | That's probably only a couple of weeks delay at this point | 20:09 |
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| anteaya | mordred: you just removed the code, the repo lives on | 20:09 |
| sdague | mordred: yeh, gantt is a good instance of a repo that has generated huge confusion in it still existing | 20:09 |
| sarob | Planning on a kilo release good enough for concern? | 20:09 |
| ttx | mikal: if they enter now they get summit space though | 20:09 |
| russellb | ttx: unless it's in the tc approved release, and we have to follow a process with the board around removals | 20:09 |
| mordred | anteaya: the repo will always live on :) | 20:09 |
| ttx | russellb: yes | 20:09 |
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| * mestery doesn't like that we're dangling summit space as incentive to bring projects onboard | 20:09 | |
| mordred | mikal: we regularly start projects in infra from completely blank repos | 20:09 |
| jeblair | i'm coming to terms with the fact that git repos are free, and we are building a structure around navigating a lot of git repos and filtering out the important ones | 20:09 |
| anteaya | mordred: right that is the point | 20:09 |
| mikal | ttx: seriously? We can't just grant an exception for summit space? | 20:09 |
| anteaya | jeblair: but are we filtering them out | 20:10 |
| mikal | ttx: surely we could recognize this as an unusual situation and handle that... | 20:10 |
| mordred | mikal: and I'd like for the big tent to allow us to keep doing that | 20:10 |
| anteaya | jeblair: see I think the filtering out thing is where some folks (me) are having an problem | 20:10 |
| jeblair | i think a benefit of that structure is that we can actually _start_ projects within it | 20:10 |
| sdague | mordred: I think that's a bit different as it's under an existing team structure | 20:10 |
| ttx | mikal: well, waiting for them to push a tag is about as silly | 20:10 |
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| sarob | Noting that summit space is a big deal | 20:10 |
| sdague | we're talking about a new team that's never demonstrated a release on anything | 20:10 |
| morganfainberg | jeblair, ++ i like the attitude that repos are free ;) | 20:10 |
| mikal | Repos inside projects are free | 20:10 |
| mikal | Projects are not | 20:10 |
| russellb | sarob: quick, go push a tag :-p | 20:11 |
| markmcclain | except that the bar for making a release is so | 20:11 |
| mordred | :) | 20:11 |
| jeblair | it's always seemed strange to me that we don't have a good way of starting a new project from scratch within openstack. i see the opportunity to correct that in the big tent | 20:11 |
| mordred | ++ | 20:11 |
| sarob | Well congress did push m2 | 20:11 |
| jeblair | anteaya: that's what the project tags effort is about -- helping to navigate that | 20:11 |
| markmcclain | jeblair: +1 | 20:11 |
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| sarob | And plans to push kilo too | 20:11 |
| ttx | mikal: We can certainly give exceptions out -- but in that precise case saying "you will be in once you push a tag" is unnecessary wait imho | 20:11 |
| anteaya | jeblair: well hopefully that will help me then | 20:12 |
| anteaya | the concern I'm hearing is about clutter | 20:12 |
| * markmcclain waits for a project to tag a release entitled the tc_requires_this | 20:12 | |
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| anteaya | what do we do with the clutter | 20:12 |
| mikal | ttx: you are welcome to disagree with me | 20:12 |
| russellb | lack of any release tags helps communicate "doesn't do releases yet" i suppose | 20:12 |
| mestery | russellb: ++ | 20:12 |
| mordred | russellb: ++ | 20:13 |
| * annegentle looks for a jumping in spot | 20:13 | |
| jeblair | annegentle: here's one! | 20:13 |
| anteaya | annegentle: sharpen your elbows | 20:13 |
| annegentle | sarob: how did congress discuss last summit? | 20:13 |
| mordred | or maybe "has chosen to not believe in releases and instead only targets CD style" | 20:13 |
| russellb | mordred: touche | 20:13 |
| sdague | what about the concern that policy already means something in openstack, which is not this? | 20:13 |
| sarob | Annegentle: congress got a design space | 20:13 |
| sdague | because I'm not looking forward to that becoming more confusing | 20:13 |
| sarob | Floor 2 and 3/4 | 20:13 |
| sarob | About 80 people | 20:14 |
| annegentle | sdague: with ya on that one | 20:14 |
| mestery | sdague: That's a valid concern IMHO | 20:14 |
| jaypipes | sdague: ++ | 20:14 |
| mordred | sdague: that is a fair point ... I've been meaning to write something up about resource names | 20:14 |
| sarob | With 3 follow up sessions | 20:14 |
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| sarob | In the Dev lounge | 20:14 |
| * mordred glares at keystone domains | 20:14 | |
| jaypipes | sdague: that is something I raised with the GBP folks last year as well. | 20:14 |
| mordred | otoh - keystone has a thing called domains which are not part of the domain name system | 20:14 |
| russellb | fair point | 20:14 |
| sdague | yeh, I have the same fundamental issue with GBP | 20:15 |
| mestery | jaypipes: Except GBP isn't policy, it's a networking API :) | 20:15 |
| * morganfainberg apologizes for the poor naming from before he worked on the project | 20:15 | |
| russellb | i have bigger issues with GBP :) | 20:15 |
| mordred | so, if we're going to start in on that, I'd really like to see the TC ask keystone to rename domains to realm | 20:15 |
| morganfainberg | keystone domains should have been called Realms (we basically are KRB anyway...) | 20:15 |
| sdague | mordred: well, lets sort out a deprecation path to get sane naming | 20:15 |
| ttx | back on topic please | 20:15 |
| * mordred starts working on a spec | 20:15 | |
| ttx | Looks like we have two camps | 20:15 |
| mordred | ttx: I think it's on topic | 20:15 |
| mikal | OMG, let's focus on congress for now please | 20:15 |
| sdague | but the reality is that reusing a const pointer for a name for a different thing is terribly confusing | 20:15 |
| anteaya | sdague: ++ | 20:16 |
| mordred | sdague had an excellent point about the generic concept that congress implements | 20:16 |
| jeblair | so can we ask congress to describe it as "Non-domain specific regulatory policy enforcement" ? | 20:16 |
| russellb | sdague: is the pointer const, or the contents it points to const? | 20:16 |
| russellb | sorry, been writing C ... | 20:16 |
| ttx | camp 1 says project teams should at least have a release, otherwise how do they actually contribute to the openstack mission | 20:16 |
| sdague | russellb: :P | 20:16 |
| ttx | camp 2 says project teams should be able to start from nothing as long as their intentions are pure | 20:16 |
| mordred | ttx: camp 3 says that project teams shoudl be able to start frmo nothing even if they never intend on making a release | 20:17 |
| mordred | but also counts itself in camp 2 for the purposes of talying | 20:17 |
| mestery | lol | 20:17 |
| dtroyer | does camp 2/3 have any sort of idea _who_ can do this? anyone at all? | 20:17 |
| ttx | mordred: that is camp 2 | 20:17 |
| dtroyer | or just people we 'know' | 20:17 |
| annegentle | dtroyer: it's people we 'like' | 20:17 |
| jeblair | anyone | 20:17 |
| annegentle | dtroyer: :P | 20:17 |
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| mordred | jeblair: ++ | 20:17 |
| mikal | ttx: so... this is what gerrit is for right? | 20:17 |
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| ttx | yes | 20:18 |
| mikal | ttx: can't people just vote, and if I am the only -1, then merge it | 20:18 |
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| dtroyer | so why do we continue to need stackforge in that world? | 20:18 |
| jeblair | which is the status quo for projects that join stackforge, which is part of openstack | 20:18 |
| mestery | If it's anyone, why are you even debating this? :) | 20:18 |
| russellb | sarob says they did milestone 2 | 20:18 |
| mestery | Just let them all in! :) | 20:18 |
| russellb | and will be doing kilo | 20:18 |
| ttx | mikal: fwiw I was on camp 1 until I realized that a tag is cheap and doesn't carry any meaning of maturity | 20:18 |
| russellb | i'm sympathetic to camp 1, just see it as largely addressed | 20:18 |
| annegentle | ttx: +1 | 20:18 |
| jeblair | dtroyer: i don't think we do. i'd like to remove "rename repostories" as part of our software lifecycle | 20:18 |
| ttx | russellb: they don't have tarball jobs though :) | 20:18 |
| russellb | heh | 20:18 |
| zaneb | mikal: consensus >> voting | 20:18 |
| mikal | ttx: it is unproven that our users and the community will interpret the git namespace in the way we hope they will | 20:18 |
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| ttx | so the tag doesn't create a release | 20:19 |
| russellb | well i'm still in camp 2, i don't think it's required | 20:19 |
| dtroyer | ok, cool. then we're removed that barrier to resource allocation in corporations. | 20:19 |
| russellb | no releases is a valid choice MIO | 20:19 |
| russellb | IMO* | 20:19 |
| mikal | ttx: they have certainly done strange things we didn't intend with that stuff in the past | 20:19 |
| dtroyer | they'll find anoher one to use unless we give them one we like | 20:19 |
| mordred | zaneb: I'm not sure what bitshifting consensus and voting does ... | 20:19 |
| jeblair | mikal: i feel certain they will as soon as we have enough things in there to make it clear where the bar is set | 20:19 |
| anteaya | dtroyer: is there one we like? | 20:19 |
| mordred | zaneb: :) | 20:19 |
| sdague | ok, so I'm fine with no release if we've got some reasonable way to have someone outside of a project realize it's dead and get it killed off | 20:19 |
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| dtroyer | anteaya: unknown, except we haven't particularly cared for the two previous ones | 20:20 |
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| ttx | One more +1 and this passes now, otherwise we have to wait for final vote next week | 20:20 |
| anteaya | sdague: me too | 20:20 |
| sdague | but that still doesn't address 'Policy as a Service' being confusing | 20:20 |
| anteaya | dtroyer: yes I agree to that | 20:20 |
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| ttx | Any other question on Congress ? | 20:20 |
| jeblair | ttx: +1 | 20:20 |
| mordred | sdague: I agree - I'd love to see either a different word or maybe an adjective added | 20:20 |
| jeblair | i'm going to write a patch | 20:21 |
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| ttx | OK, we have 7 | 20:21 |
| mordred | since I believe we're expecting keystone to start offering access to policy files soon | 20:21 |
| russellb | mordred: sdague ++ | 20:21 |
| sarob | Sweet | 20:21 |
| mordred | sarob: ^^ | 20:21 |
| ttx | Last call before I approve it | 20:21 |
| zaneb | mordred: tbh, to this day I have no idea what congress is | 20:21 |
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| morganfainberg | mordred, fwiw, I expect that to be a big focus in liberty [if that weighs in anywhere] | 20:21 |
| mordred | sarob: it would be a friendly if you could figure out a better word than "policy" | 20:21 |
| morganfainberg | mordred, for the conversation | 20:21 |
| russellb | zaneb: it's less scary if you really look into what it does :) | 20:21 |
| mordred | sarob: I have no suggestions | 20:21 |
| sdague | mordred: it's compliance | 20:21 |
| sdague | Compliance Enforcement | 20:22 |
| zaneb | after reading the wiki page multiple times, being pitched on IRC about it and attending an unrelated summit session that was hijacked by congress devs | 20:22 |
| sdague | that's what it should be called | 20:22 |
| mordred | sarob: perhaps compliance as a service then? | 20:22 |
| jeblair | i proposed https://review.openstack.org/169480 | 20:22 |
| sarob | I think policy is sticky | 20:22 |
| jeblair | sdague, sarob: ^ maybe we can take that as a strawman to bikeshed on | 20:22 |
| sdague | sarob: ? | 20:22 |
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| ttx | OK, it's in | 20:22 |
| mordred | sarob, sdague, jeblair: let's find a cage and fight it out outside of the TC meeting | 20:22 |
| sdague | sure | 20:23 |
| sarob | ;) | 20:23 |
| ttx | next topic | 20:23 |
| jeblair | mordred: agreed, yeah, that's what i intended to do with that change | 20:23 |
| ttx | sarob: welcome | 20:23 |
| ttx | #topic Apply release:* tags to current projects | 20:23 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Apply release:* tags to current projects (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:23 | |
| ttx | #link https://review.openstack.org/167682 | 20:23 |
| sarob | Ttx: thanks! | 20:23 |
| ttx | This is describing the release model for each of the code repositories in the yaml file (if they do releases) | 20:23 |
| annegentle | oh he's capital Ttx now! | 20:23 |
| ttx | I think it's pretty straightforward and a base we can iterate on. | 20:24 |
| ttx | It's got 7 YES so I can approve it now | 20:24 |
| ttx | Last minute questions ? | 20:24 |
| russellb | yay | 20:24 |
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| annegentle | I think it's great it's already bringing in good questions. | 20:25 |
| ttx | Right, that exercise raised two interesting questions (which I would consider orthogonal to the patch) | 20:25 |
| ttx | (Approved) | 20:25 |
| annegentle | it being tag application | 20:25 |
| ttx | The first one is the need for a "release:has-stable-branches" tag to differentiate between a project that just merely has a stable branch cut from their last release (which may have been months away), like an Oslo library | 20:25 |
| ttx | and a project that consciously tries to align with the 6-month release cycle end (like Swift) | 20:25 |
| ttx | I'll propose that new tag in a subsequent patch | 20:25 |
| ttx | The second question is more general, and is about how to provide the most useful information to our downstream users | 20:25 |
| ttx | Should we tag every git repository, or just "deliverables" (OpenStack software git repositories) ? | 20:26 |
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| ttx | I think our users, when they will browse the catalog of OpenStack projects, only want to see things they might actually consume ('Neutron') and not necessarily every git repo in OpenStack-land | 20:26 |
| ttx | So it feels like we could use an abstraction layer between project teams and git repositories and apply tags to that new layer | 20:26 |
| ttx | Bear with me while I illustrate with a few examples | 20:26 |
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| ttx | Nova currently has 3 repositories (nova, nova-specs and python-novaclient). I'd argue that as far as our users are concerned, it produces two deliverables (Nova and the Nova python client library), and apply tags only to those | 20:26 |
| russellb | i had a variation on that question ... whether it makes sense to tag the team in some cases (like diversity) | 20:26 |
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| ttx | It is an abstraction layer, because in some cases deliverables can contain more than one code repository | 20:27 |
| ttx | For example, Neutron currently produces a "Neutron" deliverable out of openstack/neutron, openstack/neutron-fwaas, openstack/neutron-lbaas and openstack/neutron-vpnaas, since they are always released at the same time. | 20:27 |
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| ttx | The users consume "Neutron", the fact that it's technically separated into 4 code repositories is a technical implementation detail | 20:27 |
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| ttx | Now... there are corner cases. Should we consider libraries "deliverables" ? For example should Cinder have an "os-brick" deliverable ? | 20:27 |
| ttx | Should we tag individual infrastructure projects ? Or not tag them at all, since they are a supporting cast and not really a part of the IaaS platform ? | 20:28 |
| ttx | Or should we consider that all infra forms a single "deliverable" ? | 20:28 |
| ttx | Is docs a deliverable ? | 20:28 |
| ttx | etc. | 20:28 |
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| mordred | I'm pretty sure all of infra is not a single deliverable, for whatever that is worth | 20:28 |
| jeblair | ttx: that makes sense, especially with projects collecting more component repos, that people may not need to see the components listed separately when evaluating what the project produces. | 20:28 |
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| ttx | trying to see what would make the most sen,se for a consumer of the tag system (a downstream user) | 20:29 |
| russellb | the components of the Neutron deliverable likely have different maturity levels | 20:29 |
| anteaya | would you ask individual projects to answer that question? | 20:29 |
| anteaya | what is your deliverable? | 20:29 |
| jaypipes | russellb: that was *exactly* my thought. | 20:29 |
| jeblair | mordred: depends on what a deliverable is. in some ways, yes, in others, no. | 20:29 |
| mestery | Maybe also ask downstream consumers what they'd prefer? | 20:29 |
| russellb | so maybe they're separate deliverables and the model holds | 20:29 |
| ttx | russellb, jaypipes: in the neutron example above, they are released as a single "thing" | 20:29 |
| mordred | jeblair: fair | 20:29 |
| zaneb | crazy idea: TC assigns tags to projects, projects decide for themselves which of their repos the approved tags are applied to | 20:29 |
| ttx | (maybe deliverable is not the right term for this) | 20:29 |
| russellb | but they're different enough to consider them separately :) | 20:29 |
| zaneb | (thinking out loud here) | 20:30 |
| anteaya | ttx: no I think it is | 20:30 |
| russellb | they are optional bits of significant functionality with vastly different maturity levels, AFAICT | 20:30 |
| anteaya | the problem is the variety | 20:30 |
| jaypipes | ttx: well, yes, but python-neutronclient and neutron (the 4 repos) have different release cycles. | 20:30 |
| sdague | russellb: ++ | 20:30 |
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| ttx | zaneb: right, that was my point. Nova produces "nova" and the python nova client... how many repos they split Nova into is not really significant | 20:30 |
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| ttx | jaypipes: that's two difefrent deliverables though | 20:30 |
| jaypipes | ok | 20:30 |
| jeblair | ttx, mordred: regarding infra specifically, i don't want to get too hung up on it because we are here to support the overall effort, not make it more difficult. however, we do want to participate in it as much as possible. so if tags are being applied for diversity, etc., i would like them to be applied to infra in some way. but i also don't think we need 160 entries in the openstack project browser. | 20:30 |
| mikal | I can see the projects with many hundreds of repos being very confusing to consumers | 20:30 |
| ttx | One team, two deliverables, 7 repos | 20:30 |
| mikal | Tripleo for example | 20:30 |
| zaneb | ttx: yeah, it would be really nice for the TC not to have to care at the repo level | 20:31 |
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| mordred | jeblair: +100 | 20:31 |
| sdague | ttx: I think the fact that neutron advanced services are on the same deliverable schedule is just a bug of the current split being only partial | 20:31 |
| sdague | I assume they will become more independent over time | 20:31 |
| jeblair | sdague: maybe they become separate deliverables then, but are one now? | 20:31 |
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| russellb | i think i like the deliverables concept to create a more natural place to apply some tags | 20:32 |
| ttx | jeblair: hmm.. maybe we can filter the project browser on some other data -- like a relevant-for-the-browser tag. | 20:32 |
| russellb | just ... details to work out, i guess | 20:32 |
| ttx | anyway, I was thinking out loud. Blame devananda | 20:32 |
| sdague | jeblair: yeh, but I think it's important to consider them separately, because as many folks have said, they are vastly different maturities | 20:32 |
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| ttx | just wanted to throw it out there and see what you thought | 20:32 |
| russellb | tentative optimism | 20:32 |
| jeblair | sdague: and people may choose not to deploy some of them based on that maturity level, even now? | 20:33 |
| russellb | jeblair: yes | 20:33 |
| russellb | for sure | 20:33 |
| sdague | jeblair: yes | 20:33 |
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| russellb | i'd say most people don't deploy any of them, in fact | 20:33 |
| jeblair | yeah, so that feels like multiple deliverables then, | 20:33 |
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| ttx | right maybe that was not the right example | 20:34 |
| markmcclain | russellb: I've have LBaaS in the wild | 20:34 |
| agentle_ | whacky internets, catching up now | 20:34 |
| ttx | I think everyone agrees we should not tag nova-specs | 20:34 |
| ttx | or openstack/governance | 20:34 |
| russellb | markmcclain: cool :) | 20:34 |
| ttx | so *some* repos do not make sense being tagged | 20:34 |
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| anteaya | ttx I agree with that | 20:34 |
| dougwig | it's almost as if you need a TC managed integrated-release tag, which defines what is "openstack". | 20:34 |
| jaypipes | ttx: are we *specifically* referring to release:* tags here? | 20:34 |
| russellb | ttx: i also agree that for some projects split into repos, tagging individually doesn't make good sense | 20:34 |
| jeblair | ttx: but should contributing to nova-specs feed into the contributions we look at when we evaluate diversity of nova? | 20:34 |
| ttx | jaypipes: no | 20:35 |
| jaypipes | dougwig: very funny. | 20:35 |
| russellb | dougwig: just wait until we get back to defining the "TC Approved Release" | 20:35 |
| ttx | full circle completed! | 20:35 |
| russellb | pretty much | 20:35 |
| jeblair | we do, of course, have exactly that tag. it is deprecated. | 20:35 |
| dougwig | isn't that what you're doing right now? re-arranging the deck chairs notwithstanding. | 20:35 |
| jaypipes | ttx: then I'm -1 on this. I want to tag repos with fine-grained information about that repo, not broad tags that may or may not accurately represent individual repos within a project space. | 20:35 |
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| ttx | jaypipes: ok | 20:36 |
| jaypipes | dougwig: no. | 20:36 |
| ttx | OK, I propose we move on. I'lml give the idea some more thought and propose a strawman change if I think the idea has value | 20:36 |
| ttx | Thanks for the feedback though | 20:37 |
| vishy | or we could elect someone to tag the release with their name | 20:37 |
| ttx | #topic Projects list housekeeping | 20:37 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Projects list housekeeping (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:37 | |
| jeblair | ttx: thanks; there are definitely some good things in there | 20:37 |
| vishy | “jaypipes certified openstack” | 20:37 |
| vishy | :p | 20:37 |
| ttx | * Adds the openstack/os-cloud-management to TripleO... (https://review.openstack.org/166723) | 20:37 |
| ttx | Mikal raised an interesting point on the name of the lib being a bit too generic | 20:37 |
| * jaypipes remarks that it's easy to aggregate fine-grained data. Not so easy to go the other way round. | 20:37 | |
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| * jaypipes still waiting for the os-on-os-on-os-on-os repo. | 20:38 | |
| mikal | I fear we might not have been all that consistent with generic names in the past | 20:38 |
| sdague | ttx: it's at least better than os-cloud-middleware | 20:38 |
| ttx | sdague: lol | 20:38 |
| jaypipes | heh | 20:38 |
| jaypipes | tru nuf | 20:38 |
| jeblair | mikal, ttx: i agree it's too generic, but matches the level of descriptiveness we have in other similar projects. :/ | 20:38 |
| vishy | septuple-o | 20:38 |
| vishy | nice | 20:38 |
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| jeblair | i feel like the ship has sailed | 20:38 |
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| mikal | jeblair: its never too late to be grumpy about it though | 20:38 |
| mordred | mikal: I'm grumpy about plenty of things all day long :) | 20:39 |
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| sdague | yeh, until we dissallow the words middleware and lib in projects, it seems overly harsh to be grumpy of generic names | 20:39 |
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| jeblair | we could suggest the tripleo folks mass-rename s/os-/tripleo-/ in their project names | 20:39 |
| ttx | we could | 20:39 |
| mikal | OMG, I was just thinking that | 20:39 |
| annegentle | jeblair: the naming ship? | 20:39 |
| mikal | jeblair: let's do it | 20:39 |
| ttx | mikal: that is orthogonal to that patch though | 20:39 |
| russellb | what if they change the number of Os | 20:39 |
| ttx | Can I approve this one ? | 20:39 |
| mikal | ttx: true dat | 20:39 |
| annegentle | s/os-/ooo- | 20:39 |
| mikal | ttx: and probably also a dick move | 20:39 |
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| ttx | well os-* is not a great prefix anyway | 20:40 |
| russellb | SeveralO | 20:40 |
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| * zaneb can provide more info on what this lib will do if anyone has questions | 20:40 | |
| ttx | So I'll approve all of thoise unless a -1 is posted (in which case we'll discuss it next week | 20:40 |
| ttx | * Add os-testr repo to QA (https://review.openstack.org/167244) | 20:40 |
| russellb | zaneb: what? the name is the important part | 20:40 |
| mikal | zaneb: can I use it outside of the context of tripleo? | 20:40 |
| ttx | * Add ansible-puppet repo to infra (https://review.openstack.org/166820) | 20:40 |
| ttx | * Add ansible-build-image to infra (https://review.openstack.org/166821) | 20:40 |
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| ttx | * Add bashate to the QA program (https://review.openstack.org/168012) | 20:40 |
| ttx | * Add puppet-diskimage-builder to Infra (https://review.openstack.org/167612) | 20:40 |
| ttx | * Move os-client-config to openstack namepsace (https://review.openstack.org/167730) | 20:41 |
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| jaypipes | ttx: cool with me. | 20:41 |
| ttx | I'll collect that tomorrow morning. So if you really think os-cloud-management is too generic, -1 it | 20:41 |
| zaneb | mikal: not really, the idea is for it to be the common part for things that need to be done by both the Tuskar UI and CLI users, but which are not in the Tuskar API | 20:41 |
| ttx | and we'll continue that interesting discussion next week | 20:42 |
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| mikal | zaneb: ok, in that case I am -1 on that name | 20:42 |
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| annegentle | zaneb: gotta go with mikal on that one too | 20:42 |
| ttx | #topic Open discussion | 20:42 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:42 | |
| ttx | A few topics I wanted us to discuss | 20:42 |
| ttx | * Neutron renaming "core reviewers" to "maintainers" (https://review.openstack.org/164208) | 20:42 |
| * mikal seems to be the grumpy one this week | 20:43 | |
| ttx | This was proposed in parallel to https://review.openstack.org/#/c/163660/ which we rejected | 20:43 |
| ttx | mikal: I have a damn cold so I am also grumpy | 20:43 |
| russellb | mikal: we all get a turn :) | 20:43 |
| ttx | The main objections raised (by TC members, not really by Neutron devs) are: | 20:43 |
| ttx | (1) the bundling of review duties with other project duties to form a single super-developer status | 20:43 |
| ttx | (2) the choice of the "maintainers" term which is a bit overloaded and far away from "reviewing" | 20:43 |
| ttx | Now Neutron devs (and others) claim it's none of our business since we are not Neutron devs, and that you can't dictate culture by committee | 20:43 |
| mordred | I believe my objection here is going to be that I do not think this is a project level thing | 20:43 |
| mordred | and I do believe that we can do that | 20:43 |
| ttx | That said, TC members judge OpenStack projects inclusion in the big tent by the sharing of common community and development values (the "are you one of us" test) | 20:43 |
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| russellb | mordred: ++ | 20:44 |
| mestery | What? We're not creating a super developer, we're acknowldeging those already exist. I've broken the patch in two. | 20:44 |
| mordred | and I believe taht if they want me to butt out they have another thing coming | 20:44 |
| ttx | And we have oversight as long as they are called openstack/neutron and not stackforge/neutron | 20:44 |
| annegentle | I'm with mordred on consistency in names and understanding. | 20:44 |
| mestery | I think that's not a fair characterization of hte patch to be honest | 20:44 |
| annegentle | but I do like doing what I want with my specialty teams :) | 20:44 |
| marun | I don't think it should be the place of the TC to define culture at the project level. | 20:44 |
| mordred | I do not believe that it is appropriate for neutron to try to rename a concept that exists across openstack | 20:44 |
| mordred | marun: I believe it is exactly the place of the TC | 20:44 |
| ttx | mestery: ok, you're defining a super-developer class, not creating it because it already exists in Neutron | 20:44 |
| marun | mordred: Really? | 20:44 |
| mordred | marun: yes | 20:44 |
| mestery | ttx: Nope, I'm not saying that. | 20:44 |
| dougwig | ttx: it exists everywhere in openstack. that most refuse to admit that does not make it less true. | 20:45 |
| mestery | ttx: I'm documenting what existing core reviewers do | 20:45 |
| russellb | my main objection was changing the name, honestly | 20:45 |
| mordred | mestery: I agree with documenting what exisitng core reviewers do | 20:45 |
| mestery | How did you interpret the first patch as "defining a super developer class in neutron"? | 20:45 |
| marun | mordred: Tell me, where have you ever seen design-by-committee be applied to defining culture? | 20:45 |
| mestery | mordred: thank you | 20:45 |
| annegentle | marun: we try to be the resolvers of conflict while representing the contributors | 20:45 |
| mordred | the name change is troubling because it creates a schism in terminology between one of our projects and another | 20:45 |
| mordred | and in the world of the big tent | 20:45 |
| marun | mordred: sure | 20:45 |
| mordred | one of the few things we have remaining is a common culture | 20:46 |
| marun | mordred: design-by-committee is the way forward, gotcha | 20:46 |
| annegentle | marun: it's not design by committee, more like representation | 20:46 |
| * mestery thinks maintainers better reflects what core reviewers do and was hopeful that jogo' | 20:46 | |
| marun | annegentle: if you say so. | 20:46 |
| mestery | patch would have been better received | 20:46 |
| marun | annegentle: kind of potayto, potahto to me | 20:46 |
| jeblair | mordred: i agree | 20:46 |
| marun | mordred: there isn't common culture | 20:46 |
| marun | news flash | 20:46 |
| mordred | marun: what i'm saying is that if there is a term, called "core reviewer" that is used across openstack, and neutron choses to abandon it | 20:46 |
| ttx | mestery: I think you bundle a number of duties together -- that prevents for example non-reviewers from being a "maintainer" | 20:46 |
| marun | each project is different and unique | 20:46 |
| mordred | marun: believe me, as a consumer of all of them, that is clear | 20:47 |
| marun | and we need to be results oriented instead of process oriented | 20:47 |
| mestery | ttx: Yes, that's the current reality. All that patch does is reflect that. | 20:47 |
| russellb | mordred: lol | 20:47 |
| annegentle | marun: happy to deep dive on it with you esp. where you see actions aren't reflecting that representation. As we grow, culture remaining meaningful is the hardest part. | 20:47 |
| mestery | ttx: I'd like to change that, but thought that documenting what exists now is better to start with | 20:47 |
| * jogo is still planning to follow up with ttx's suggestion of 'We should probably be having that discussion on the ML' | 20:47 | |
| marun | where is the TC in defining what results we're trying to achieve? | 20:47 |
| mordred | marun: what are you even talking about right now/ | 20:47 |
| annegentle | jogo: probably best | 20:47 |
| marun | as opposed to defining seemingly arbitrary ways we have to achieve it? | 20:47 |
| mordred | marun: we are talking about a patch that was proposed to change a name of a group of people | 20:47 |
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| mestery | jogo: ++ | 20:47 |
| russellb | so if mestery just updates the docs and leaves the name alone, is there objection? | 20:47 |
| sdague | russellb: I'd have no objection to documentation of existing role without a name change | 20:48 |
| marun | mordred: yes, to change how we perceive ourselves in the project so we can forment change in how we achieve results | 20:48 |
| russellb | same here | 20:48 |
| ttx | jogo: yes, I don't expec that discussion to go anywhere, just wanted to raise it to the collective attention | 20:48 |
| sdague | I think terminology changes need to be global | 20:48 |
| russellb | sdague: agree | 20:48 |
| mordred | sdague: ++ | 20:48 |
| marun | sure, design-by-commiitte it is | 20:48 |
| annegentle | marun: if you don't want seemingly arbitrary I would think you'd want tc representatives to be able to debate this uncovered naming issue respectfully and honestly. | 20:48 |
| marun | yay for the TC, arbiter of all that is right and good | 20:48 |
| sdague | because it's too f-ing confusing for people to interface otherwise | 20:48 |
| marun | right | 20:48 |
| marun | culture is messy, let's simplify | 20:48 |
| dougwig | can we dial ourselves back to duties within mystery's change that the TC has a problem with? | 20:49 |
| ttx | marun: some people in openstack work on multiple projects | 20:49 |
| mestery | russellb: Abandoned | 20:49 |
| marun | ttx: some people in the world paricipate in different social realities, too | 20:49 |
| marun | ttx: and somehow, they manage | 20:49 |
| anteaya | dougwig: I don't think the duties were the issue | 20:49 |
| marun | but sure, openstack is special | 20:49 |
| ttx | marun: I envy the simplicity of your life | 20:50 |
| russellb | i think this whole thing is being blown way out of proportion | 20:50 |
| russellb | mestery abandoned the name change portion | 20:50 |
| marun | ttx: I think that's my line | 20:50 |
| mordred | russellb: I agree | 20:50 |
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| mestery | It's gone | 20:50 |
| russellb | what other concern remains? | 20:50 |
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| mordred | russellb: none from me | 20:50 |
| russellb | that was my only concern | 20:50 |
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| russellb | issue resolved from my side | 20:50 |
| mordred | I think the clarification is awesome | 20:50 |
| zaneb | marun: I think we should be differentiating where that adds real value. renaming stuff like this is not one of those places imho | 20:50 |
| mordred | zaneb: ++ | 20:50 |
| marun | zaneb: you are certainly entiteld to your opinion | 20:50 |
| jeblair | mestery: ++ | 20:51 |
| marun | language matters | 20:51 |
| ttx | mestery: I like it | 20:51 |
| annegentle | thanks mestery | 20:51 |
| jaypipes | marun: everyone is entitled to my opinion. | 20:51 |
| mordred | jaypipes: :) | 20:51 |
| mestery | Thanks mordred! | 20:51 |
| mestery | Thanks for the discussion here folks! | 20:51 |
| russellb | thanks, mestery | 20:51 |
| mestery | I do look forward to jogo's ML thread on the same :) | 20:51 |
| ttx | mestery: I think we actually disagreed on different things | 20:51 |
| mordred | thanks mestery ! | 20:51 |
| mestery | ttx: lol :) | 20:51 |
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| ttx | ok, next fun discussion | 20:52 |
| ttx | * WIP: Add Group Based Policy Project (https://review.openstack.org/161902) | 20:52 |
| annegentle | matrixed disagreement | 20:52 |
| ttx | Since we have some time left we could discuss the GBP addition | 20:52 |
| SumitNaiksatam | ttx: hi | 20:52 |
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| ttx | They have removed it from the agenda because someone raised a question on the review and to give them time to address it | 20:52 |
| SumitNaiksatam | ttx: just about to say that | 20:52 |
| ttx | Maybe we should see how much of a common concern that raised question is | 20:52 |
| sdague | so objection #0, beyond all other objections, we *can not* have 3 things in openstack that use policy to mean different things | 20:52 |
| SumitNaiksatam | we felt that putting the patch in WIP would give some more time for discussions | 20:52 |
| ttx | I for one share russellb's concern about diluting Neutron | 20:53 |
| sdague | that's just super crazy pants clown car | 20:53 |
| markmcclain | sdague: ++ | 20:53 |
| anteaya | ++ to both sdague and ttx | 20:53 |
| mordred | sdague: ++ | 20:53 |
| russellb | i just don't want a 3rd competing networking API | 20:53 |
| SumitNaiksatam | sdague: i agree | 20:53 |
| mestery | sdague: ++ | 20:53 |
| anteaya | russellb: agreed | 20:53 |
| mestery | russellb: STRONG ++ | 20:53 |
| sdague | russellb: also, I agree strongly with you on that | 20:53 |
| dougwig | so if nova-net and neutron both suck, we still won't let competition find a better solution? isn't that the opposite of big tent? | 20:53 |
| mestery | We already have two | 20:53 |
| markmcclain | I share the same concern about having yet another api | 20:53 |
| anteaya | dougwig: competition here isn't wan't our users want | 20:53 |
| russellb | dougwig: no, if there seemed to be strong consensus and support that GBP was the future, it'd be a different conversation | 20:54 |
| SumitNaiksatam | ttx: i dont think it dilutes Neutron | 20:54 |
| anteaya | dougwig: we have some things they like | 20:54 |
| russellb | a very messy situation, but we'd work through it | 20:54 |
| ttx | I basically question the "positive contribution to the OpenStack Mission" when we circumvent such a basic component | 20:54 |
| prasadv | russellb: I dont think it is competing network api. It is aapplication oriented api that uses neutron | 20:54 |
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| ivar-laz_ | prasadv: +1 | 20:54 |
| anteaya | ttx: ++ | 20:54 |
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| SumitNaiksatam | russellb: the intention is definitey not to create a 3rd competing API for networking | 20:54 |
| russellb | i know you keep saying that | 20:54 |
| russellb | i heard it | 20:54 |
| ttx | prasadv: is it purely building on top of Neutron ? Or has it its own network hardware plugins ? | 20:54 |
| russellb | but that's not what i see | 20:54 |
| dougwig | i'm more commenting on how big tent could lead to this sort of issue becoming common. it's open for all, except for sub-clause a, b, and subsection d. | 20:54 |
| mestery | It's a networking API | 20:54 |
| markmcclain | SumitNaiksatam: that is contrary to statement made by the GBP team last summer | 20:54 |
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| SumitNaiksatam | ttx: we dont circumvent any of the components | 20:55 |
| ivar-laz_ | russellb: I've tried to answer your concern on the review. At any point GBP can or will circumvent Neutron's API | 20:55 |
| mestery | Look at the "hands on lab" session in vancouver, and at the ODL Summit | 20:55 |
| markmcclain | SumitNaiksatam: at the time it was stated the intent was to be the v3 API | 20:55 |
| mestery | Look at the fact it exists in OpenDaylight ... an SDN controller project ... focused on networking | 20:55 |
| mordred | dougwig: I think we shoudl be clear with people that there are some things, probably things that have made their way into defcore, where we're not particularly looking for competition | 20:55 |
| mordred | competition is GREAT | 20:55 |
| mestery | markmcclain: ++ | 20:55 |
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| SumitNaiksatam | markmcclain: absolutely yes, but the project has evolved | 20:55 |
| anteaya | networking needs to fix the problems we have, we aren't lacking here, and we don't need more | 20:55 |
| mordred | but after a point, it becomes noise | 20:55 |
| russellb | mordred: ++ | 20:55 |
| ttx | SumitNaiksatam: I think that's the bottom of the question -- are we having network hardware plugins in two difefrent places | 20:55 |
| jeblair | there was a lot of positive reception to the idea that the big tent would enable us to consider alternative approaches and implementations of functionality. this seems to be that, so how do we exclude gbp on that basis? | 20:55 |
| SumitNaiksatam | markmcclain: you are referring to the patch that was posted in neutron | 20:55 |
| SumitNaiksatam | anteaya: agree 100% | 20:56 |
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| anteaya | jeblair: it doesn't help us achieve the openstack mission? | 20:56 |
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| markmcclain | SumitNaiksatam: ok.. that evolution in thinking wasn't very clear | 20:56 |
| ttx | jeblair: I think that competition becomes more costly the further down the layers you go | 20:56 |
| mordred | jeblair: oh, I'm not saying we should say no to gbp - I'm just saying that I don't necessarily think that competition in the area of networking APIs for openstack is good for our users | 20:56 |
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| ivar-laz_ | ttx: which plugin are you referring? | 20:56 |
| ttx | jeblair: for example, keystone competition makes no sense | 20:56 |
| jeblair | would it be okay to accept ceph-based object storage? | 20:56 |
| ttx | jeblair: and actively hurts the openstack mission | 20:56 |
| jeblair | lots of people use and want that | 20:56 |
| mordred | jeblair: I would have no problem with that | 20:56 |
| russellb | i look it at as competition is more welcome the higher we go in the stack, or the less mature its "competitors" are ... basically we should use our heads and evaluate whether competition makes sense | 20:57 |
| ivar-laz_ | ttx: all the existing drivers, vendor or not, must use Neutron for their data path to work | 20:57 |
| SumitNaiksatam | markmcclain: happy to clarify, thanks fo asking | 20:57 |
| * jogo finds this whole exercise of difficult because all of the GBP documentation seems to be self contradicting and very out of date | 20:57 | |
| jeblair | mordred: i struggle to see the difference | 20:57 |
| mordred | jeblair: I do not believe there is one | 20:57 |
| jeblair | mordred: so this is a gut thing? | 20:57 |
| mordred | jeblair: I believe we are talking about two different things ... | 20:57 |
| mordred | jeblair: one of them is "do we let a project into the big tent" | 20:57 |
| annegentle | SumitNaiksatam: agree with jogo that docs would help provide evidence for your stated cause | 20:57 |
| mikal | So, we used competing with nova as an example in the original discussions, and we liked that idea then. I'm confused about the distinction here to be honest. | 20:57 |
| jaypipes | jeblair: I think the difference is that, at least from my perspecitve (and I know SumitNaiksatam is updated docs and stuff) GBP isn't an alternative implementation of the Neutron API. It's a whole different networking API that essentially makes the Neutron API irrelevant (and is pretty much just a passthru to ACI-like vendor APIs. | 20:57 |
| ttx | ivar-laz_: my question is.. will GBP forever act as a proxy API on top of Neutron API, or is it prone to plug directly into networking hardware features, and therefore use plugins | 20:57 |
| mikal | I'm not saying we should replace Neutron | 20:57 |
| mordred | jeblair: another is "do we consider the output of that project an essential part of the deliverable called OpenStack" | 20:57 |
| mordred | jeblair: I believe that letting someone in the tent does not imply the second thing | 20:58 |
| russellb | jaypipes: ++ | 20:58 |
| ttx | ivar-laz_: my understanding is that the goal is the latter | 20:58 |
| mikal | But this "less competition at lower layers" thing wasn't discussed during the original votes | 20:58 |
| SumitNaiksatam | annegentle: sure, perhaps we were not clear, and we should do a better job | 20:58 |
| mestery | jaypipes: ++ | 20:58 |
| mestery | jaypipes: Nailed it! | 20:58 |
| ivar-laz_ | ttx: the Mission statement is to act on top of Openstack, by *using* it | 20:58 |
| jeblair | mordred: okay, i follow you and agree with you there | 20:58 |
| annegentle | SumitNaiksatam: believe me I know it's hard to find all the corners of the 'net :) | 20:58 |
| jeblair | mordred: so which question are we discussing? :) | 20:58 |
| ivar-laz_ | ttx: that's the commitment, and today code base shows it. | 20:58 |
| mordred | jeblair: we SHOULD be discussing letting them into the party | 20:58 |
| mordred | jeblair: we seem to be forgetting that we are not defcore | 20:59 |
| ttx | ivar-laz_: exactly. So GBP will forver be a proxy API on top of Neutron API ? In which case +1 | 20:59 |
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| russellb | ttx: it's not that today | 20:59 |
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| mestery | ttx: I wouldn't bank on that down the road | 20:59 |
| mordred | so a) I think GBP is a bad idea. b) I support it being added to the openstack tent because I do not think inclusion in that tent should carry meaning | 20:59 |
| SumitNaiksatam | ttx: thats how it works for networking constructs today | 20:59 |
| jeblair | mordred: so i'm with you on 1) +1 and 2) -1 (or really n/a -- see defcore) | 20:59 |
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| ttx | OK, no time left -- I suspect Sumit will clarify the points we raised, in time for next week discussion | 21:00 |
| SumitNaiksatam | russellb: why do you think its not like that today? | 21:00 |
| ivar-laz_ | ttx: that's the mission :) | 21:00 |
| SumitNaiksatam | ttx: sure | 21:00 |
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| zaneb | mordred: bad idea or bad implementation? | 21:00 |
| SumitNaiksatam | thanks all for the time | 21:00 |
| SumitNaiksatam | and the disscussion | 21:00 |
| mordred | zaneb: the idea of having a competing networking API approach | 21:00 |
| ttx | Thanks everyone, closing the meeting to make room for next | 21:00 |
| mordred | zaneb: I think it serves nobody well | 21:00 |
| mordred | however | 21:00 |
| mordred | I don't think I should make that call right now | 21:00 |
| ivar-laz_ | Thanks people for showing your concerns! join us on #openstack-gbp for more questions | 21:00 |
| ttx | Feel free to continue this discussion on #openstack-dev :) | 21:00 |
| mordred | and I think it's fine for GBP to play in our sandbox | 21:00 |
| mestery | lol | 21:00 |
| zaneb | mordred: agreed, I would prefer to fix the neutron api in a future rev | 21:00 |
| ivar-laz_ | ttx: or there! | 21:01 |
| sdague | I think an important question is how open the api design process was here, and will be in the future | 21:01 |
| annegentle | thanks SumitNaiksatam! | 21:01 |
| ttx | #endmeeting | 21:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 21:01 | |
| russellb | i think it violates at least one of the criteria in our new project guidelines | 21:01 |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Mar 31 21:01:11 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 21:01 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2015/tc.2015-03-31-20.02.html | 21:01 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2015/tc.2015-03-31-20.02.txt | 21:01 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2015/tc.2015-03-31-20.02.log.html | 21:01 |
| mestery | sdague: That is a good question, I look forward to hearing that answer | 21:01 |
| anteaya | russellb: ++ | 21:01 |
| sdague | or is that basically locked because of the vendor back ends that it is optimized for | 21:01 |
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| russellb | sdague: that. | 21:01 |
| russellb | that too, i mean | 21:01 |
| ttx | ok, next meeting | 21:01 |
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| mestery | sdague: Last I heard, it was, yes. | 21:01 |
| ttx | courtesy PTL ping: devananda, dhellmann, morganfainberg, notmyname, eglynn, nikhil_k, thingee, asalkeld, david-lyle, mestery, SlickNik, SergeyLukjanov, mikal: around ? | 21:01 |
| eglynn | o/ | 21:01 |
| mestery | o/ | 21:01 |
| notmyname | here | 21:01 |
| mikal | Hi | 21:01 |
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| asalkeld | o/ | 21:01 |
| david-lyle | o/ | 21:02 |
| nikhil_k | o/ | 21:02 |
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| eglynn | dontcha just hate DST? | 21:02 |
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| adrian_otto | irc://irc.freenode.net:6667/#startmeeting Solum Team Meeting | 21:02 |
| ttx | I hate time | 21:02 |
| * mestery shakes his fast at DST | 21:02 | |
| ttx | #startmeeting crossproject | 21:02 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Mar 31 21:02:26 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is ttx. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 21:02 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 21:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: crossproject)" | 21:02 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'crossproject' | 21:02 |
| adrian_otto | irc://irc.freenode.net:6667/#link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/Solum#Agenda_for_2015-03-31_2100_UTC Our Agneda | 21:02 |
| ttx | adrian_otto: don't steal my meeting | 21:02 |
| mestery | lol | 21:02 |
| mestery | Meeting theft! | 21:02 |
| ttx | Our agenda for today: | 21:02 |
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| ttx | #link http://wiki.openstack.org/Meetings/CrossProjectMeeting | 21:02 |
| adrian_otto | uh, wait? | 21:03 |
| ttx | adrian_otto: wait what | 21:03 |
| fungi | adrian_otto: wrong channel? | 21:03 |
| adrian_otto | sorry guys | 21:03 |
| morganfainberg | adrian_otto, hi adrian :) | 21:03 |
| ttx | #topic PTL election season | 21:03 |
| morganfainberg | ttx, o/ | 21:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "PTL election season (Meeting topic: crossproject)" | 21:03 | |
| ttx | Adri2000: you can stay here | 21:03 |
| ttx | adrian_otto: I mean you | 21:03 |
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| ttx | Our meeting is more interesting | 21:03 |
| ttx | The PTL election season is coming up: | 21:04 |
| ttx | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/PTL_Elections_April_2015 | 21:04 |
| morganfainberg | that time of year again! | 21:04 |
| ttx | If you don't plan to stand for reelection, it's more than time to encourage people in your teams to step up | 21:04 |
| ttx | Self-nomination period starts end of week | 21:04 |
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| ttx | Feel free to reach out to the election officials if you have any questions | 21:04 |
| fungi | as before, we'll also want the governance repo tagged so that our tools aren't hitting a master branch moving target | 21:04 |
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| mikal | 6am UTC is a weird time to start | 21:05 |
| ttx | fungi: sure I'll be around | 21:05 |
| mikal | Just sayin' | 21:05 |
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| ttx | damn round planet | 21:05 |
| mikal | Why not just midnight? | 21:05 |
| fungi | mikal: it's more that i can generate the electorate rolls first thing when i wake up, and 0600 utc is well before i roll out of bed | 21:05 |
| mikal | Not that it matters | 21:05 |
| ttx | mikal: must carry some US-centricity | 21:05 |
| morganfainberg | mikal, i vote 0623UTC ... :P | 21:05 |
| morganfainberg | mikal, my vote doesn't matter though | 21:06 |
| fungi | and for whatever reason previous elections did 0600 utc | 21:06 |
| ttx | ok, no question on that topic ? | 21:06 |
| mikal | fungi: ahhh, fair enough | 21:06 |
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| anteaya | nothing starts at 6 utc | 21:06 |
| eglynn | midnight in US mountain time areas that don't do DST? | 21:06 |
| anteaya | it was the utc equivalent of pacific time | 21:06 |
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| fungi | 0600 utc is merely the cut-off for contributions counting you into the electorate | 21:07 |
| anteaya | for midnight on the thursday | 21:07 |
| anteaya | and for the self-nomination period | 21:07 |
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| ttx | not that anyone cares anyway | 21:07 |
| ttx | #topic Design Summit content | 21:07 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Design Summit content (Meeting topic: crossproject)" | 21:07 | |
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| ttx | OK, time to talk about the Design Summit in Vancouver | 21:07 |
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| ttx | In theory the content will be set by the newly-elected PTLs, but nothing prevents to start the discussion early | 21:08 |
| eglynn | anteaya: PDT is UTC-7:00 surely? | 21:08 |
| anteaya | eglynn: we have moved topics | 21:08 |
| mestery | ttx: Ack, starting early is well advised! | 21:08 |
| ttx | As far as slot allocation is concerned, we don't have that many new projects after all, so we should be able to give everyone what they requested | 21:08 |
| ttx | Final slot allocation and proposed slot layout should be available around April 10, once we know the final list of projects to be considered | 21:08 |
| eglynn | anteaya: ... yet the timezones stay the same | 21:08 |
| ttx | eglynn: I don't think anybody cares what hour the nomination week starts | 21:09 |
| ttx | Questions on slot allocation ? | 21:09 |
| tchaypo | o/ | 21:09 |
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| bknudson | do we have some idea if everybody wants fishbowl or conference rooms? | 21:09 |
| ttx | bknudson: let me see | 21:09 |
| bknudson | or are we getting a mix | 21:09 |
| ttx | everyone getting what their PTL asked for when I polled them | 21:10 |
| ttx | generally a mix | 21:10 |
| nikhil_k | ttx: How about cross project ones? | 21:10 |
| bknudson | great | 21:10 |
| morganfainberg | ttx, good news! | 21:10 |
| ttx | cross-project is all fishbowl | 21:10 |
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| nikhil_k | All remaining slots ? or do we have min, max on that? | 21:10 |
| ttx | Currently 133 fishbowls requested, 173 workrooms and 29 half-days | 21:11 |
| nikhil_k | Thanks | 21:11 |
| eglynn | ttx: what's the story on for scheduling the Friday afternoon? | 21:11 |
| ttx | nikhil_k: once the allocation is confirmed we may have scraps to share for the needy | 21:11 |
| nikhil_k | That would be great | 21:11 |
| ttx | Friday afternoon is contributors meetups | 21:11 |
| ttx | like Friday nmorning | 21:12 |
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| bknudson | is there a feedback session on fri aft? | 21:12 |
| eglynn | ttx: any projects who requested half day contrib meetup getting allocated the afternoon slot? | 21:12 |
| bknudson | I'd like some info on how the economy is going. | 21:12 |
| ttx | bknudson: yes, last slot | 21:12 |
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| ttx | bknudson: we invited the same speaker | 21:12 |
| bknudson | wonderful! | 21:12 |
| morganfainberg | ttx, was going to ask about that :P | 21:13 |
| ttx | bknudson: the economy is not getting better | 21:13 |
| eglynn | I ask because Friday afternoon == graveyard | 21:13 |
| david-lyle | can we talk economy in it? | 21:13 |
| morganfainberg | ttx, you typed it out before i could ask. | 21:13 |
| ttx | eglynn: most projects requested full day | 21:13 |
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| eglynn | a-ha, k | 21:13 |
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| anteaya | bknudson: the Canadian economy? straight down | 21:13 |
| ttx | eglynn: we might be able to schedule all the single half-day ones in the mornings | 21:14 |
| notmyname | what economy are you talking about? | 21:14 |
| mestery | eglynn: I share your concern about friday afternoon being a graveyard :) | 21:14 |
| eglynn | ttx: excellent, that would be wise I think | 21:14 |
| ttx | OK, next subtopic... session proposals | 21:14 |
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| ttx | notmyname: you missed a historic moment in Paris | 21:14 |
| ttx | As far as session proposals go, we let everyone use their own tooling (mostly etherpads) | 21:14 |
| notmyname | oh yeah. I heard about it | 21:14 |
| ttx | It would be great to reference those in: | 21:14 |
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| ttx | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Design_Summit/Planning | 21:15 |
| notmyname | I wouldn't say I missed it, Bon | 21:15 |
| notmyname | *bob | 21:15 |
| ttx | so if you already have a design summit suggestion etherpad, please add it there | 21:15 |
| ttx | so that people can find them | 21:15 |
| ttx | One team asked that we make an ODSREG instance (the system we used for session proposals pre-kilo) available to them for session suggestion collection | 21:15 |
| ttx | ODSREG code lives at https://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack-infra/odsreg/ but I guess for those I'll set up team-dedicated instances of the tool | 21:15 |
| ttx | It's not totally impossible we'll use ODSREG for suggesting cross-project sessions as well | 21:15 |
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| ttx | Most other projects seemed happy with etherpads | 21:15 |
| mestery | ++ to etherpads | 21:16 |
| mtreinish | +1 | 21:16 |
| ttx | you can also use Google forms, whatever works best for you | 21:16 |
| eglynn | googledocs sheets for the win | 21:16 |
| eglynn | ... much easier to tally votes | 21:16 |
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| ttx | eglynn: you do votes ? What kind of a dictatorship do you live in ? | 21:17 |
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| asalkeld | hah | 21:17 |
| eglynn | ttx: we vote, but North Korea stylee ;) | 21:17 |
| ttx | ok.. questions on session proposals ? | 21:17 |
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| mestery | lol | 21:18 |
| * morganfainberg already setup an etherpad for keystone | 21:18 | |
| nikhil_k | ttx: more info on the dates to come later? | 21:18 |
| * morganfainberg is happy w/ etherpads. | 21:18 | |
| ttx | morganfainberg: please add link | 21:18 |
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| morganfainberg | already done | 21:18 |
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| ttx | nikhil_k: dates ? | 21:18 |
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| * morganfainberg also made sure to be the weird project that didn't follow the naming convention for the etherpad :P | 21:18 | |
| nikhil_k | Until which people can do proposals | 21:18 |
| morganfainberg | [not on purpose] | 21:18 |
| nikhil_k | ttx: people like to have meetings before slots can be allocated | 21:19 |
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| ttx | nikhil_k: you can communicate your own. there will be a deadline to fill the schedule, but otherwise you're on your own | 21:19 |
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| ttx | which brings us to our next subtopic | 21:19 |
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| nikhil_k | and that deadline to fill the schedule should be close to the main event like the previous time right? | 21:19 |
| ttx | yes | 21:19 |
| ttx | As far as scheduling goes, we won't use ODSREG this time, mostly because the sched.org constraints changed (we share the sched with the main conference now) | 21:19 |
| nikhil_k | thanks | 21:19 |
| ttx | So I created a new tool that lets you directly edit a few things on sched in the slots that are allocated to your teams, I'll send you link to a demo soon | 21:20 |
| ttx | Code currently lives at https://github.com/ttx/summitsched for the curious | 21:20 |
| mestery | ttx: Cool! | 21:20 |
| ttx | it's basically a sched proxy | 21:20 |
| ttx | since shced has a pretty simple idea of ACLs | 21:20 |
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| ttx | (stores it in a binary) | 21:21 |
| ttx | We still have a decision to make though. Cheddar enforces a number of things, like making sure all sessions on a track are prefixed by the track name, for clarity | 21:21 |
| * morganfainberg wonders how many ways we can break sched this time :P | 21:21 | |
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| ttx | It also enforces boring titles and descriptions for "work sessions" and the "contributors meetups", in order to make them as unattractive as possible for the general attendance | 21:21 |
| ttx | You can see the results at: http://testingsiteforfutureevents2015.sched.org/ | 21:21 |
| mestery | nice! | 21:22 |
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| morganfainberg | ttx, i want to go to the "Ops: cake is amazing" session | 21:22 |
| asalkeld | with "food not provided in the title" ;) | 21:22 |
| ttx | So basically you can give fishbowl sessions a title, but work sessions and contributors meetups have set titles | 21:22 |
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| ttx | since they have such limited room you don't want everyone to show up because tyou mentioned "docker" in title | 21:22 |
| ttx | One question I still had is whether to allow custom descriptions in work sessions. Currently you only can customize a link, which looks like this: | 21:22 |
| ttx | http://sched.co/2wp8 | 21:22 |
| ttx | That may be a bit impractical for design summit attendees (having to click the link to see what the work session is actually about) | 21:23 |
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| ttx | It's a balance between making it unattractive to conference attendees and making it a pain to design summit attendees | 21:23 |
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| ttx | So maybe boring title is enough and we should allow custom descriptions for work sessions ? What would be your take ? | 21:23 |
| morganfainberg | I'd allow a link to an etherpad, add a boring description "see etherpad for me" | 21:23 |
| morganfainberg | "more"* | 21:23 |
| asalkeld | maybe a very short description? | 21:23 |
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| asalkeld | as a reminder | 21:23 |
| ttx | morganfainberg: that is what we have for work sessions right now | 21:23 |
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| SergeyLukjanov | ++ for very short description asalkeld | 21:24 |
| tchaypo | FWIW it seems like it should be possible to work around some of this by creating an etherpad for “here are our project’s work sessions” and putting descriptions there | 21:24 |
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| ttx | generic description looks like http://sched.co/2wp8 | 21:24 |
| tchaypo | possible, but slightly annoying | 21:24 |
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| morganfainberg | ttx, i'm a fan of that. it means that it's easy to change the work session topic if suddenly everyone is busy elsewhere for that topic | 21:24 |
| bknudson | the work group titles are hopefully going to have the project name ? | 21:24 |
| ttx | that basically means you need to train your teams to click on the etherpads | 21:24 |
| morganfainberg | ttx, i'd rather just keep the boring description and the link. | 21:24 |
| serg_melikyan | I think it's pretty nice - at the end working session are for contributors and they know what they plan to discuss | 21:25 |
| morganfainberg | but i'm not going to vote strongly against a short description | 21:25 |
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| ttx | so let's do a quick poll | 21:25 |
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| asalkeld | (was just thinking if you are on a phone, short description is nice) | 21:26 |
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| ttx | #startmeeting should work sessions have custom descriptions, or just a boring description and a link ? custom, boring, don't care | 21:26 |
| openstack | ttx: Error: Can't start another meeting, one is in progress. Use #endmeeting first. | 21:26 |
| ttx | #startvote should work sessions have custom descriptions, or just a boring description and a link ? custom, boring, don't care | 21:26 |
| openstack | Begin voting on: should work sessions have custom descriptions, or just a boring description and a link ? Valid vote options are custom, boring, don, t, care. | 21:26 |
| openstack | Vote using '#vote OPTION'. Only your last vote counts. | 21:26 |
| morganfainberg | #vote boring | 21:26 |
| eglynn | #vote custom | 21:26 |
| david-lyle_ | #vote boring | 21:26 |
| notmyname | #vote custom | 21:26 |
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| edleafe | #vote boring | 21:26 |
| mestery | #vote boring | 21:26 |
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| asalkeld | #vote custom | 21:26 |
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| morganfainberg | actually... if we can just have it default to boring, and allow an override... | 21:26 |
| nikhil_k | #vote custom | 21:27 |
| morganfainberg | i think that solves the use for everyone | 21:27 |
| mestery | morganfainberg: ++ | 21:27 |
| david-lyle_ | morganfainberg, +1 | 21:27 |
| ttx | hmm, yes. | 21:27 |
| ttx | #endvote | 21:27 |
| openstack | Voted on "should work sessions have custom descriptions, or just a boring description and a link ?" Results are | 21:27 |
| openstack | boring (4): david-lyle_, edleafe, mestery, morganfainberg | 21:27 |
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| openstack | custom (4): nikhil_k, eglynn, notmyname, asalkeld | 21:27 |
| ttx | Let's make it custom, but encourage boring | 21:27 |
| mestery | lol | 21:27 |
| morganfainberg | ;) | 21:27 |
| ttx | you can come with your own flavor of boring | 21:27 |
| morganfainberg | i like it! | 21:27 |
| asalkeld | haha | 21:27 |
| eglynn | I wouldn't like to see "boring" used as a means of realtime rescheduling of sessions | 21:27 |
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| mestery | A tie ... but it doesn't matter anywya because morganfainberg had a better solution :) | 21:27 |
| ttx | the vote was a rhetorical trick | 21:28 |
| eglynn | (hard enough to manage the clashes between multiple tracks in parallel) | 21:28 |
| morganfainberg | "this is a boring work session, don't come here... we're going to be quiet and not doing performance art... we swear... and definitely not docker" | 21:28 |
| eglynn | LOL :) | 21:28 |
| david-lyle_ | haha | 21:28 |
| mestery | No! You said Docker! ;) | 21:28 |
| eglynn | open the floodgates! | 21:28 |
| bknudson | put a sign that says docker on a room. | 21:28 |
| morganfainberg | LOL | 21:29 |
| ttx | "10 things you won't believe about Docker" | 21:29 |
| sdague | we just need that nfv docker honeypot session | 21:29 |
| morganfainberg | ttx, this one amazing trick about docker... | 21:29 |
| mestery | "Docker and OpenStack: Better Together!" | 21:29 |
| * morganfainberg apologizes for derailing | 21:29 | |
| mestery | lol | 21:29 |
| mestery | sdague: lol | 21:29 |
| anteaya | sdague: in another building | 21:29 |
| ttx | Oh, and Cheddar (the sched proxy) also supports a session showing up in multiple tracks! | 21:29 |
| dansmith | I bet those folks are as easy to trap as ... LEMMINGS | 21:29 |
| * dansmith runs | 21:30 | |
| ttx | So it has a main track, but you may also make it appear in other tracks | 21:30 |
| mikal | dansmith: lol | 21:30 |
| morganfainberg | oh thats cool. | 21:30 |
| ttx | example at: | 21:30 |
| mestery | lol | 21:30 |
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| ttx | http://sched.co/2vhQ | 21:30 |
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| ttx | That's an Ops session, but it also appears in swift | 21:31 |
| notmyname | nice. swift + cake == awesome | 21:31 |
| ttx | so that when your contributor go to: http://testingsiteforfutureevents2015.sched.org/type/design+summit/Swift they still see it | 21:31 |
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| ttx | That should facilitate multi-project work | 21:31 |
| * devananda sneaks in, tries to catch up on scrollback | 21:31 | |
| russellb | devananda: well that's not sneaky at all | 21:32 |
| mestery | devananda: Summary is: NFV Docker honeypot! | 21:32 |
| ttx | If someone wants to beta-test Cheddar, I can set up access to the demo instance | 21:32 |
| ttx | just send me some email so that I remember to do it | 21:32 |
| ttx | Alright, any question on design summit ? | 21:33 |
| asalkeld | all good, thanks ttx | 21:33 |
| ttx | #topic Open discussion & announcements | 21:33 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion & announcements (Meeting topic: crossproject)" | 21:33 | |
| ttx | We had 1:1s syncs today in #openstack-relmgr-office, logs at: | 21:34 |
| eglynn | ttx: is there a list of the per-project slot allocations anywhere? | 21:34 |
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| ttx | #link http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/ptl_sync/2015/ptl_sync.2015-03-31-08.04.html | 21:34 |
| devananda | ttx: i would have voted boring :) | 21:34 |
| sdague | ttx: for open discussion, question on string freeze and string freeze exceptions | 21:34 |
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| ttx | eglynn: not yet, but the google doc I colected answers on is still up | 21:34 |
| sdague | when we need to change a string for bugs at this point, what are we supposed to do to alert i18n teams | 21:34 |
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| eglynn | ttx: a-ha, cool, ta | 21:34 |
| nikhil_k | ttx: What seem to be the community plan for the smaller release cycle in L? | 21:35 |
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| ttx | sdague: so that is a good question | 21:35 |
| nikhil_k | to be community's general plan* | 21:35 |
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| ttx | sdague: we generally do a thread on -dev, but I have no idea if that reaches the right people | 21:35 |
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| morganfainberg | sdague. we should do a i18nImpact tag? | 21:35 |
| devananda | ttx: i ma have missed it in my skim - is the ops track taking suggestions and/or having project-specific discussions? | 21:35 |
| sdague | yeh, this seems like a very non closed loop, as I never have any idea what the i18n progress is | 21:36 |
| ttx | Actually, I have no evidence that string freeze exceptions get seen by translators | 21:36 |
| morganfainberg | ttx, i use the i18n mailing list. | 21:36 |
| morganfainberg | ttx, got a response from andreas about it. | 21:36 |
| ttx | I know they appreciate us not gratuitously changing strings after FF, but that's about all the feedback I got | 21:36 |
| sdague | morganfainberg: there's a separate mailing list? | 21:36 |
| morganfainberg | ttx, so that seems to work. | 21:36 |
| morganfainberg | sdague, yes. | 21:36 |
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| * mestery didn't know of the separate ML either | 21:36 | |
| Rockyg | devananda: there's an etherpad for ops | 21:36 |
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| * morganfainberg has had to do this a few times in the past. | 21:36 | |
| devananda | Rockyg: link isn't on https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Design_Summit/Planning yet :) | 21:36 |
| * devananda adds ironic to ^ | 21:37 | |
| morganfainberg | openstack-i18n@lists.openstack.org | 21:37 |
| sdague | ttx: so it seems like it would be good to get i18n leadership to be banging appropriate drums on -dev list around this | 21:37 |
| * Rockyg is looking | 21:37 | |
| barrett1 | Here's the etherpad for the Ops topics: https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/YVR-ops-meetup | 21:37 |
| ttx | sdague: yes | 21:37 |
| sdague | because otherwise we're just going to fail a lot | 21:37 |
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| Rockyg | ops summit ether pad: #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/YVR-ops-meetup | 21:38 |
| morganfainberg | we tend to be good w/ closes-bug, and docimpact (not as good as closes bug), so maybe a tag in the commit message is the right approach... maybe it's just a bad idea as well. | 21:38 |
| ttx | morganfainberg: you seem to know your way around there, care to introduce that topic ? | 21:38 |
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| ttx | we just ened to make sure the i18n leadership shows up | 21:39 |
| morganfainberg | ttx, uhm.. what needs to be introduced? or you mean for a session? | 21:39 |
| sdague | morganfainberg: we need to know what to do now | 21:39 |
| ttx | no I mean <sdague> ttx: so it seems like it would be good to get i18n leadership to be banging appropriate drums on -dev list around this | 21:39 |
| sdague | on -dev | 21:39 |
| ttx | morganfainberg: you seem to know who to reach to | 21:39 |
| morganfainberg | sdague, i mean i'll bug andraes and send a message to the i18n list :) | 21:40 |
| ttx | i18n is a black box to me. To reach it I usually dial fifieldt | 21:40 |
| sdague | you even knew there was a list | 21:40 |
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| sdague | morganfainberg: so I think the point is this needs to be on -dev | 21:40 |
| sdague | because few people know that list is a thing | 21:40 |
| sdague | so clearly won't be getting info out to the review teams that need it | 21:40 |
| morganfainberg | sdague, right, the point is getting them in on the convo. | 21:40 |
| ttx | and the current process involved [stringfreeze] on dev list | 21:40 |
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| morganfainberg | ttx, oh i didn't know that :P | 21:40 |
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| sdague | ttx: ok, news to me | 21:40 |
| * morganfainberg did something totally different. | 21:41 | |
| ttx | well, that is what I replied to people who asked me | 21:41 |
| morganfainberg | so i'll try and chase someone (some i18n folks) down and get them to make some noise on -dev about. | 21:41 |
| ttx | not sure that qualifies as "process" | 21:41 |
| morganfainberg | not guarantees that i'll be successful. | 21:41 |
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| morganfainberg | but i'll try | 21:41 |
| sdague | when we get to these parts of the release I think the [all] emails need to go out with "x is frozen, to get an except do Y" | 21:41 |
| morganfainberg | the only way i knew someone read i18n list is because someone responded this time (i think this is the 4th or 5th string freeze i've sent out) | 21:42 |
| sdague | because there has been a ton of confusion with code review where everyone's trying to guess the rules | 21:42 |
| morganfainberg | sdague, ++ i'll chase some people down and get them to send something to -dev. | 21:42 |
| ttx | sdague: but but but difference in culture is good right ? | 21:42 |
| sdague | which means they are so inconsistently applied, it's not clear they are useful at all | 21:42 |
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| * sdague walks away slowly | 21:42 | |
| morganfainberg | sdague, at least we have some direction then. | 21:42 |
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| sdague | morganfainberg: yep, thanks | 21:43 |
| ttx | morganfainberg: thx! | 21:43 |
| ttx | nikhil_k: you had a question ? | 21:43 |
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| nikhil_k | ttx: What seems to be community's general plan for the smaller release cycle in L? | 21:44 |
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| ttx | nikhil_k: I don't think we'll do a smaller release cycle in L | 21:44 |
| ttx | but we'll dsicuss release cycle lengths in Vancouver | 21:44 |
| nikhil_k | so not 6 weeks then? | 21:45 |
| nikhil_k | There was some proposal for abandoning older PS | 21:45 |
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| * fungi votes for a 6-minute release cycle | 21:45 | |
| ttx | well, the cycle will still be 6 months. You may release more often though | 21:45 |
| bknudson | we'll run out of letters. | 21:45 |
| ttx | nikhil_k: don't believe everything you read on MLs | 21:45 |
| nikhil_k | I thought the rhythm matches well with our 6 weeks style | 21:45 |
| * morganfainberg believes everything on the internet | 21:45 | |
| fungi | i really didn't get the impression that the "release more often but less thoroughly" discussion really went anywhere except in a circle back to describing why we have milestones that aren't releases | 21:46 |
| david-lyle | we could use Liberty, Lemming and Lizard | 21:46 |
| nikhil_k | ttx: I kinda like that idea :) | 21:46 |
| nikhil_k | (of abandoning older PS) | 21:46 |
| morganfainberg | david-lyle, and love. don't forget love | 21:46 |
| morganfainberg | >.> | 21:46 |
| ttx | All you need is Love | 21:46 |
| mikal | All I need is a nap | 21:46 |
| ttx | nikhil_k: I'll invite you to that session :) | 21:47 |
| ttx | OK... Anything else, anyone ? | 21:47 |
| morganfainberg | ttx, does that mean we move to semver? | 21:47 |
| morganfainberg | ttx, releasing more often that is? | 21:48 |
| morganfainberg | or is that just a rabbit hole not worth talking about right now | 21:48 |
| nikhil_k | mikal: http://www.tumblr.com/tagged/i-need-a-nap | 21:48 |
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| david-lyle | where are cross-project session topics being collected? | 21:48 |
| ttx | morganfainberg: rabbit hole | 21:48 |
| ttx | david-lyle: nowhere yet | 21:48 |
| morganfainberg | ttx, sold. happy to merrily go on my way | 21:48 |
| nikhil_k | ttx: heh | 21:48 |
| ttx | david-lyle: the etherpad ended up a bit messy last time | 21:48 |
| ttx | russellb: ^ | 21:48 |
| russellb | we need to get started on that soon | 21:49 |
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| ttx | I was wondering if we should not use something less messy, like ODSREG of some google form | 21:49 |
| russellb | one problem was that we started kinda late, IIRC | 21:49 |
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| russellb | ttx: that too, yes | 21:49 |
| russellb | submission by completely freeform text is kind of difficult | 21:49 |
| ttx | works well for teams brainstorming, not so much for random individuals posting | 21:50 |
| david-lyle | how many cross-project tracts concurrently running? | 21:50 |
| russellb | yeah | 21:50 |
| ttx | let me see | 21:50 |
| russellb | is it a cross project day again? | 21:50 |
| ttx | 2 sessions in parallel | 21:50 |
| ttx | yes, Tuesday | 21:50 |
| russellb | ok | 21:50 |
| david-lyle | ok | 21:50 |
| russellb | ODSREG is fine with me | 21:50 |
| ttx | Ops track runs in parallel though | 21:51 |
| ttx | so we'll have to choose where to go | 21:51 |
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| russellb | usually the case .. | 21:51 |
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| ttx | right | 21:51 |
| russellb | let's just add more days! | 21:51 |
| * russellb headdesks | 21:51 | |
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| russellb | i think i might collapse | 21:52 |
| russellb | ok so, cross-project track. we should do somethign about that. | 21:52 |
| ttx | OK, I think we are done for today, unless someone has a last-minute question/topic | 21:52 |
| russellb | ttx: ODSREG++ | 21:52 |
| ttx | russellb: ok, will set up an instance for cross-project | 21:52 |
| russellb | awesome | 21:52 |
| ttx | notmyname asked for one for swift too | 21:52 |
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| ttx | notmyname: still interested ? | 21:53 |
| notmyname | yes, i think so | 21:53 |
| notmyname | I prefer it to etherpads | 21:53 |
| ttx | notmyname: some people use Google forms | 21:53 |
| ttx | notmyname: maybe discuss with team and let me know what you need | 21:53 |
| notmyname | ok | 21:53 |
| russellb | would be nice if it was consistent | 21:54 |
| russellb | oh well | 21:54 |
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| ttx | ok, let's close this | 21:54 |
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| ttx | #endmeeting | 21:54 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 21:54 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Mar 31 21:54:41 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 21:54 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/crossproject/2015/crossproject.2015-03-31-21.02.html | 21:54 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/crossproject/2015/crossproject.2015-03-31-21.02.txt | 21:54 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/crossproject/2015/crossproject.2015-03-31-21.02.log.html | 21:54 |
| mestery | thanks ttx! | 21:54 |
| ttx | Thanks everyone | 21:54 |
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