Wednesday, 2014-09-24

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johnthetubaguy#startmeeting XenAPI15:02
openstackMeeting started Wed Sep 24 15:02:31 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is johnthetubaguy. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.15:02
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.15:02
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: XenAPI)"15:02
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'xenapi'15:02
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johnthetubaguyhello all15:02
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johnthetubaguy#topic CI15:03
*** openstack changes topic to "CI (Meeting topic: XenAPI)"15:03
johnthetubaguyBobBall: hows it going?15:03
BobBallBroken horribly15:03
johnthetubaguygood good15:03
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BobBallhttps://etherpad.openstack.org/p/XenServerCI_Debugging15:03
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johnthetubaguyOK, interesting15:04
johnthetubaguyso this is mostly related to changing over the ubuntu version?15:04
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BobBallWe think so15:04
BobBallor upgrading config15:04
BobBallwhich we were forced to do15:05
johnthetubaguyah.. doh15:05
BobBallbasically we're getting to a place where we are stuck15:06
BobBalland can't bring the CI back to life for a long time15:06
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johnthetubaguy:(15:06
johnthetubaguyOK, sounds like you hit a brick wall with this15:07
BobBallindeed15:07
johnthetubaguyI mean the cycle time on fixing this stuff is sooo looong, so its sadly possible to hit this stuff15:07
johnthetubaguyI guess move sooner, is the lesson15:07
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johnthetubaguyanyways, sounds like you are looping through some ideas there15:08
johnthetubaguyI guess there is not much I can help with right now?15:08
BobBallWe may need some serious help from people who know these things15:08
BobBallpuppet / upstart / systemd etc15:08
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johnthetubaguyyeah, I know bits of puppet, but the other stuff, much less so15:09
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BobBallcan you find someone in rax who might be able to help?15:09
johnthetubaguyBobBall: not easily on the upstart stuff15:10
johnthetubaguythats ubuntu specific I guess15:10
johnthetubaguyat least there aren't people I know off15:11
johnthetubaguythere used to be ubuntu focused peoples at Citrix I thought?15:11
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BobBallindeed15:12
BobBallbut not got any answers yet :(15:12
BobBallit's a seriously sticky problem15:12
johnthetubaguyeek15:13
johnthetubaguyany more on CI?15:13
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johnthetubaguylets say no15:13
johnthetubaguy#topic Open Discussion15:13
*** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: XenAPI)"15:13
johnthetubaguyany more for any more?15:13
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johnthetubaguyOK I guess we are done15:15
johnthetubaguylets go fix things15:15
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johnthetubaguyBobBall: catch me offline to see if I can get help15:15
johnthetubaguy#endmeeting15:15
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"15:15
openstackMeeting ended Wed Sep 24 15:15:20 2014 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)15:15
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/xenapi/2014/xenapi.2014-09-24-15.02.html15:15
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/xenapi/2014/xenapi.2014-09-24-15.02.txt15:15
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/xenapi/2014/xenapi.2014-09-24-15.02.log.html15:15
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BobBallok15:16
BobBallok15:16
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rushiagro/16:01
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jgriffith#startmeeting cinder16:02
openstackMeeting started Wed Sep 24 16:02:45 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is jgriffith. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.16:02
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.16:02
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: cinder)"16:02
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'cinder'16:02
jgriffithhey hey16:02
bswartzhi16:02
* DuncanT waves16:02
eharneyhi16:02
xyang1hi16:02
scottdahi16:02
rushiagrhey16:02
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jnraoHi16:03
jgriffithNot a ton on agenda so let's make this short and sweet :)16:03
jgriffithhttps://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/CinderMeetings16:03
jungleboyjTHat would be good.  I gotta run early anyway.  :-)16:03
jgriffith#topic Remove XenAPI driver16:03
*** openstack changes topic to "Remove XenAPI driver (Meeting topic: cinder)"16:03
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jgriffithnote this patch that flew through https://review.openstack.org/#/c/123162/16:04
hemnaso the XenAPI driver is actually gone :P16:04
flip214I thought that meetings, like everything else, tend to fill all available time?16:04
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jgriffithDuncanT: pointed out that this probably should've been "looked" at by a broader audience16:04
hemnathe MSA driver isn't going to be maintained by my team.16:04
jgriffithhemna: you're next... just a sec ;)16:04
jungleboyjflip214: Shhhh.16:04
thingeejgriffith: I sent  an email to the openstack list asking who is using the driver16:04
joahehe16:04
thingeeand noting the driver is broken as far as we're concerned.16:04
jgriffithI checked with John Garbutt yesterday and he said it's basicly dead/unmaintained anyway16:05
jgriffithso no harm in removal16:05
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thingeesomeone from citrix reached out to me privately saying they were fine with getting rid of it16:05
thingeesince the CI was going to be a bit more work16:05
jgriffiththingee: sure16:05
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DuncanTThe reason I put it on the agenda is to get a policy going forward16:05
jgriffithanyway, nobody seems to have an issue16:05
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DuncanTNot every user is on the mailing list16:05
jgriffithincluding the person that was "psuedo" maintaining it16:05
thingeeDuncanT: I think we're fixing this already with new drivers and existing16:05
thingeewith the list you're compiling for maintainers.16:06
jgriffiththingee: et'al16:06
thingeethere is only so much we can do to reach out16:06
jgriffithI think the point is we should be public and clear about things like this16:06
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jgriffiththere should be communication before "removing" a driver16:06
jgriffithIMO16:06
jgriffithregardless of whether it's the right thing to do or not16:06
DuncanTthingee: We can also set a minimum length of time to try to find drivers a new home if necessary16:06
hemnajgriffith, +!16:06
jgriffithshould be communicated16:06
xyang1jgriffith: ok, I won't +A next time.  wait for more people to look at it16:06
hemnaerr 116:06
bswartzSetting a minimum time between announcing the intent to remove the driver and actually removing it would probably be good16:07
jgriffithxyang1: nahh... you did right16:07
thingeejgriffith: I was taking a similar approach to what Oslo does for removing things like zero mq support. Bring it up in the openstack user list16:07
eharneyyeah 1 day is not much of a window16:07
jgriffithxyang1: that's why we're talking about it today16:07
jgriffithset up some guidelines16:07
jgriffithso there's no question in the future16:07
hemnawe should at least doc somewhere about mx requirements for drivers16:07
jgriffithhemna: mx?16:07
joahemna: minimal requirements  ? It's in the wiki16:07
hemnasorry, aviation term for maintenance16:07
thingeeI'm open to suggestions, but I feel like it was public, but agree it was done too quickly16:07
joaoh16:07
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jgriffithso I'd just propose a couple things:16:08
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jgriffith1. If we see a patch that removes a driver, make sure all of core knows about it16:08
jungleboyjthingee: +116:08
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thingeeDuncanT: I agree with minimum time16:08
jgriffith2. Send a posting out to Dev ML at a minimum16:08
jgriffithsorry.. but I think min time is a lame and arbitrary metric16:09
jgriffithand frankly usually kinda stupid16:09
DuncanTthingee: Part  of this si my fault, I suggete4d to Bob that he put the patch in, then didn't follow through starting the discussion quickly enough16:09
thingeejgriffith: I guess minimum time with what you're suggesting16:09
jgriffithif 100 people happen to all look at it in an hour who cares :)16:09
bswartzminimum time would account for people being on vacation or otherwise temporarily unresponsive16:09
thingeethere has to be some point where you just kill it because no one is responding to the thread16:09
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DuncanTjgriffith: 'At least one weekly meeting passes between submit and merge' seems reasonable16:09
jgriffithbswartz: OpenStack progress waits for no one! :)16:09
jgriffithDuncanT: sure16:09
jgriffithfine by me16:09
smcginnisDuncanT: +116:10
jgriffithif that's what folks would like to propose16:10
jgriffithI"m fine with it16:10
DuncanTI'm not suggesting a /long/ minimum time16:10
jungleboyjDuncanT: +116:10
thingeesounds fine to me16:10
hemnasounds good.16:10
jgriffithOk... so we have a plan it seems16:10
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Arkady_Kanevskyone week sound reasonble. Suggest also sending an email to openstack-cinder16:10
jgriffithShould we capture that on the wiki or something?16:10
jgriffithArkady_Kanevsky: yeah, I think ML is a good thing too16:11
jgriffithcrickets16:11
jgriffithok... I'll put something on the wiki :)16:11
DuncanTPutting on the wiki seems sensible, yes16:11
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rushiagr+1 for wiki16:11
jgriffithunless there's a better option16:11
joajgriffith: I think it'd be a great addition to the contribution page for cinder16:11
joaif only to say: See how we'll do if you're to be removed.16:11
rushiagrplus a mail to ML about the decision?16:11
Arkady_KanevskyWe also need to update  https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/CinderSupportMatrix16:12
jgriffithok, I'll draft a first pass on the wiki16:12
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Arkady_Kanevsky+1 for wiki for proposla16:12
jgriffithfeel free to clean up or suggest improvements if you feel needed16:12
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jgriffithThat brings us to the MSA driver16:12
jgriffithhemna: ^^16:12
thingeeArkady_Kanevsky: that matrix is outdated and used as an example of what we're avoiding.16:12
thingeethe point of the minimum requirements is to not have a matrix16:13
jgriffiththingee: yeah, I'd love to just delete that stupid thing16:13
hemnaso we talked about it internally and tried to ask for resources to maintain the MSA driver and got denied16:13
Arkady_KanevskyIf matrix is outdated where is definitive place for it?16:13
hemnasoren, we can't support it currently16:13
hemnaso16:13
jgriffithhemna: ok, so it's out IMO16:13
hemnajgriffith, +116:13
hemnayah I warned my mgrs that would be next.16:13
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jgriffithhemna: did it ever even work that you know?16:13
hemnaand we are ok with it.16:13
hemnayah I believe it did work16:13
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jgriffiththat's too bad16:14
hemnayah16:14
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hemnabasically a contracting company wrote the driver to try and get a deal with a customer16:14
hemnait fell through, and so they ran away16:14
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jgriffithyeah I spent a good deal of time talkign with them :)16:14
hemnaIMO it's the perfect example of dump and run.16:14
jgriffithtalking even16:14
jgriffithyup.... but that raise a concern/issue16:14
DuncanThemna: I've contact with that company who are now interested in supporting it16:14
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jgriffiththere *is* at least one customer out there using it16:14
jgriffithI'd propose that it stay as is for Juno obviously16:15
hemnaafaik, the customer didn't buy it.   but I could be wrong16:15
jgriffithbut figure out in Kilo if it's just dead and goes away or not16:15
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jgriffithhemna: ohhh16:15
hemnaok16:15
jgriffithhemna: well that makes it easier16:15
jgriffithanybody feel a strong need to have it out by the time Juno releases?16:15
hemnawe have no contact with them at all16:15
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hemnaDuncanT, you have a contact that wants to support it ?16:16
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DuncanThemna: Apparently, yes16:16
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DuncanThemna: Should be having a call with them about it soon.16:16
hemnaok16:16
thingeejgriffith: we should also definitely mention the removal of the driver in the release notes16:16
hemnaso they'll get the CI system up and running for it then.  great :P16:16
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DuncanThemna: That's what I'm telling them, yes16:17
jgriffiththingee: +116:17
hemnaDuncanT, perfect.16:18
jgriffiththingee: thanks for reminding me, haven't even thought about release notes yet16:18
jgriffith:(16:18
thingeeI don't think the page has even been created in the wiki yet?16:19
jgriffiththingee: nahh, not yet16:19
thingeeshould we move on to HP MSA driver?16:19
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hemnaI think we are pretty much done with that no?16:20
eharneyi'm a little confused about why removing the xenapi driver is straightforward in the RC phase...16:20
jgriffitheharney: it's not16:20
jgriffitheharney: you're not confused16:20
thingeeeharney: it's was a mistake. but we had no real process in place so it happened.16:20
jgriffitheharney: the point was that it was just "done"16:20
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eharneyah yeah, sorry, catching up from vacation still16:21
jgriffithand we were discussing if that was a horrible evil thing or not16:21
jgriffithand how to make sure we do it correctly in the future16:21
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jgriffithVACATION!!!!16:21
jgriffiththat sounds good16:21
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hemnawhat's a vacation ?16:21
xyang1jgriffith: it can be reverted if it shouldn't be removed?16:21
bswartzactually removing a driver lends credibility to duncan's threats to vendors that are slow on CI16:21
bswartz:)16:21
jgriffithxyang1: yeah, but I don't think we need to do that16:21
hemnabswartz, +116:21
jgriffithI think it's fine16:21
jungleboyjbswartz +1  Ironically, it wasn't him though.16:22
eharneyxyang1: that's kinda what i was wondering, seems like an extreme change after j-316:22
hemnaif someone wants it, they can support it and get CI in place and submit a new patch16:22
jgriffithok.. I think that horse is dead, we should stop beating on it16:22
thingeejungleboyj: I can vouch DuncanT was gentle in the email16:22
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joathingee: he scared my managers, though :D16:22
jgriffith#topic RC116:23
*** openstack changes topic to "RC1 (Meeting topic: cinder)"16:23
hemnajoa, perfect :)16:23
joagot phoned during my vacatins.16:23
jungleboyjthiagop:   :-)  Then he sent Xing to do the dirty work!  ;-)16:23
jgriffithSo FYI the goal is to release RC1 tomorrow16:23
jungleboyjthingee:^^16:23
hemnajgriffith, w00t16:23
jgriffith:)16:23
hemnado we have anything that needs looking at in reviews to make it happen ?16:23
jgriffithsoo... we have to make sure we start testing the heck out of everything next week16:23
xyang1jungleboy: what?16:23
joa*awe*16:23
jgriffithhemna: https://launchpad.net/cinder/+milestone/juno-rc116:24
jgriffithcouple of storwiz bugs that I'm likely to defer16:24
hemnathanks16:24
jgriffithreally don't care to hold release up for them16:24
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jgriffithif they land between now and tomorrow great, but dont' see that happening16:25
* DuncanT would really like Eric's security patch to land16:25
jgriffithDuncanT: that's targetted16:25
DuncanTjgriffith: Thanks16:25
jgriffithnote that anything on the list I just shared is what we "want" in RC116:25
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jgriffiththe exception are the late additions to storwiz driver16:25
xyang1jgriffith: looks like there's only one vmware patch that we are waiting for?16:26
jgriffithxyang1: that's actually targetted yes16:27
jgriffithxyang1: so keep in mind...16:27
jgriffiththe RC list is things that are critical for us to cut a release16:27
jgriffithand we think should hold up the release16:27
xyang1what about those n triaged status?16:27
jgriffiththere are of course opportunistic patches that can go in16:27
jgriffithxyang1: in general you mean?16:28
jgriffithxyang1: or on that list?16:28
hemnathe vmware patch has a dep on another retype patch16:28
xyang1on that list, there are two triaged16:28
jgriffithxyang1: the ones on that list I plan to remove, except maybe my snapshot one :)16:28
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jgriffithxyang1: I have some code for that, but I'll remove it from targetting16:28
jgriffithxyang1: it becomes opportunistic16:28
jgriffithbut problematic because once we release we introduce compat issues16:29
jgriffithxyang1: does that clear things up?16:29
xyang1jgriffith: yes, thanks16:29
jgriffithxyang1: sure16:29
jgriffithanybody else have any questions about RC?16:29
jungleboyjJust to be clear, should we not be approving any other patches at this point in time?16:29
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xyang1hemna: ya, the dependency is confusing16:30
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hemnaxyang1, at this point the vmware patch should get pushed out IMO16:30
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jungleboyjDoesn't look like those storwize patches have a chance of going in.16:30
jgriffithjungleboyj: that's an understatement16:31
jgriffithjungleboyj: no, that's not really necessary IMO16:32
jgriffithjungleboyj: re not approving other patches16:32
jgriffithjust be picky16:32
jgriffithand no more frikin i8n disasters :)16:32
jungleboyjjgriffith:  :-)  Ok, just making sure.  Ok, be careful, nothing that is likely to cause issues.16:32
jgriffithno updates to libs/requirements at this point16:32
DuncanTIf in doubt, +2 then ask in the channel16:32
DuncanTWe've a request to merge translations BTW16:32
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jungleboyjjgriffith:  :-p16:32
jgriffithDuncanT: ha!16:32
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jgriffithtranslations are "ok" IMO16:33
jgriffithit's the trouble that we caused late with some of the common libs16:33
jungleboyjDuncanT: I will take a look at those.16:33
jgriffith#topic open-discussion16:33
*** openstack changes topic to "open-discussion (Meeting topic: cinder)"16:33
* jungleboyj was just going to do a full oslo sync. 16:33
jgriffithOh...16:33
jgriffithhey!16:33
jgriffithI wanted to thank everybody here!!!16:34
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jgriffithEspecially for the nice things that people said via email regarding me stepping down as PTL16:34
joayou're welcome :)16:34
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jgriffithIt's been an awesome few years and we've built a great team and project IMO16:34
jgriffithbut keep in mind I'm not going anywhere :)16:34
hemnagood :)16:34
tbarron+116:34
xyang1jgriffith: great:)16:35
jungleboyjGood.  Wouldn't be the same without you.16:35
thingeejgriffith: I very much view the PTL role as a tag team sort of thing. Any of us interested should step up and help out. I would hope you would return to the role after a much needed vacation. :)16:35
* DuncanT looks forward to jgriffith doing less paperwork and more code16:35
joajgriffith: anyways, I think that most of us are really thankful to you for your help, oldies like newbies16:35
hemnaDuncanT, +216:35
jgriffith^^ me too, but remember you'll have to review it :)16:35
jungleboyjDuncanT:  thingee +216:35
* jungleboyj gets my Red Pen out. ;-)16:36
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xyang1jgriffith: can you target your patch please so we won't forget about them?:)16:36
jgriffithcool... so we've got thingee and DuncanT with their hats in the ring16:36
jgriffithcan't go wrong16:36
jgriffithanybody else if you're interested get your proposal posted16:36
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jgriffithxyang1: which one?16:37
jgriffithxyang1: the one I just removed from targetting?16:37
xyang1jgriffith: I mean in the future.16:37
jgriffithohhh!16:37
jgriffithLOL16:37
jgriffith:)16:37
xyang1jgriffith: that patch didn't get reviews and got reverted16:37
jgriffithxyang1: I know.. still makes me sad :(16:37
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DuncanTjgriffith: We'll fix it all in Kilo16:38
jgriffithxyang1: but timing sucked with CG and Rep landing the same week16:38
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jungleboyjjgriffith: Now you will have time to work on that and harass us to review it.16:38
jgriffithDuncanT: haha... that's what' I said at the end of Icehouse ;)16:38
xyang1jgriffith: so that is my fault your patch didn't make it?:)16:38
jgriffithxyang1: haha!  not at all16:38
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jungleboyjxyang1: You can blame Ronen, he isn't here.16:39
DuncanTjgriffith: Then I distracted everybody by poking them about CI16:39
jgriffithOk, should we free up the meeting channel?  Or does anybody else have any biz to discuss?16:39
xyang1jgriffith: target it to K-1 so we look it early16:39
jgriffithxyang1: for sure16:39
jgriffithOk everyone... cya in openstack-cinder16:40
jgriffith#endmeeting16:40
rushiagro/16:40
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"16:40
openstackMeeting ended Wed Sep 24 16:40:30 2014 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)16:40
jungleboyjThanks!  Goodmeeting!16:40
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openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/cinder/2014/cinder.2014-09-24-16.02.html16:40
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/cinder/2014/cinder.2014-09-24-16.02.txt16:40
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/cinder/2014/cinder.2014-09-24-16.02.log.html16:40
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tjones#startmeeting vmwareapi17:00
openstackMeeting started Wed Sep 24 17:00:15 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is tjones. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.17:00
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.17:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: vmwareapi)"17:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'vmwareapi'17:00
tjoneshi folks17:00
dimshi tjones17:00
rgerganovhello17:00
tjoneswho's here today?17:00
thangpo/17:00
dimso/17:00
arnaudo/17:00
rgerganovo/17:00
tflowero/17:00
mateescuo/17:01
tjonescool - so i am on the bus right now.  If i drop off  you will know why17:01
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tjonesjuno is at rc1 now - so unfortunately the bugs we were hoping to fix will not land17:01
tjoneshttps://etherpad.openstack.org/p/VMware-juno-bugs17:01
tjonesit's a bummer - but we just ran out of time17:02
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thangpare we going to try for rc2?17:02
tjonesthat's the question - what on this list is critical enough to try for rc2? thoughts?17:02
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thangpnot sure17:03
rgerganovtjones: this one is critical "VMware: prevent race condition with VNC port allocation"17:04
dimstjones: the requirements update went through via the bot proposed review17:04
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tjonesrgerganov: that is a secuity issue - isn't it?17:05
rgerganovtjones: yes, it is17:05
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tjonesdims: it is abandoned today17:05
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rgerganovunfortunately I missed that when I fixed the initial races for VNC ports17:05
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dimstjones: #3,#4,#5,#6 seem important to me...17:07
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dimsfor anyone upgrading from prev versions17:07
tjonesim back17:07
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tjonessorry17:07
tjonesbus dropped me off17:08
dimstjones: do you see the scroll back?17:08
tjonesyes17:08
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tjonesso dims - 1 did land then??17:08
dimstjones: y17:08
tjonesok good17:08
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tjones3 will be a tough sell since the cores don't even want us to be doing that17:09
tjonesoh wait - i misread17:09
rgerganovactually 3) is aligned with what the cores want17:10
tjonesi have not read 6 - why is that an rc2 candidate?17:10
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dimstjones: user facing issue "unable to access the VNC console after a VM was rescued"17:11
tjonesreading now17:11
tjonesok yes17:11
tjonesno workaround17:11
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dimstjones: ya17:12
tjonessome added 9 and 10 - presumably for rc2?17:12
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arnaudyeah tjones17:12
arnaudwould be nice17:12
dimsarnaud: higher bar for getting stuff in, #10 smells like a feature no?17:13
tjonesi suspect would be nice is a hard sell ;-)17:13
rgerganov:)17:13
* dims really really wants it, but don't know if we can justify17:13
arnaudI don't think so, dims: since this is an API call that currently fails17:13
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arnaudI don't see that as a feature17:14
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dimsarnaud: i'd rework the title a bit :)17:14
arnaudI can do that17:14
arnaud:)17:14
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tjonesit's a small change - yet if i were the release manager i would say no at this point.  certainly a very good thing to have, since this is clearly broken, but…..17:15
dimstjones: ack17:15
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tjonesok any thing else on juno?17:15
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arnaudthe patch is there: if it can make it, that nice. if not :) as usually in openstack, it will make it later :)17:16
tjonesarnaud: true17:16
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dims+1 arnaud17:16
dimstjones: who do you have to talk to for rc2 blessing?17:17
dimsfor those marked as such17:17
tjonesim guessing mikal17:17
dimscool thx17:17
tjonesi'll send something to the ML perhaps??  right now the cores are fighing gate fires so it is certainly not time to ask for this17:17
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tjoneswhat do you guys think?17:18
* dims agrees17:18
tjonesok lets talk about kilo17:18
tjoneshttps://etherpad.openstack.org/p/VMwareapi-kilo17:18
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tjonesthis is our leftover from juno17:18
tjonesdims you are fast!17:18
tjonesi know tflower wanted to talk about ova17:18
dimslol17:18
tflowertjones, yes I did - can we talk about that now?17:19
tjonessure go ahead17:19
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tjonestflower: you had questions??17:20
tflowerThanks - We're really interested in this feature as I'm looking to deploy ova images - Will this feature be a first step to enabling ova images with multiple disks? (multiple vmdks?)17:20
tflowersorry, I'm not fast like dims :)17:20
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tjonesheh17:20
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arnaudtflower, the implementation that we proposed only uses the root disk in the ova17:21
tflowerI had actually looked at the blueprint a while back, and thought it mentioned multiple disks at the time (but just mentioned there were "discussions")...if memory serves17:21
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arnaudbut this can definitely be extended to use more than 117:21
arnaudhttps://review.openstack.org/#/c/82715/117:21
tjonesi suspect we should push this and propose a depenent BP which extends this - thoughts??17:21
tjonesby *this* i mean the ova BP already in flight17:22
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dimstjones: sounds great17:22
tflowersounds really good to me17:22
tjonestflower: are you interested in proposing the new BP for this?17:22
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tflowerSure!17:22
* dims hoping arnaud can help tflower :)17:23
arnaudyes sure no problem17:23
dimsthanks!17:23
tjonesthanks arnaud17:23
tflowerarnaud: thanks17:23
tflowerI actually have another question - when it comes to the ova deploy, since an image is just 1 file in glance, will the ova need to be copied to nova-compute and untarred each time?17:23
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arnaudin the short term yes flower17:24
arnaudbut17:24
arnaudcurrently17:24
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arnaudby taking only the root disk, we can optimize and download only the root disk17:24
arnaudthis is not part of the part mentioned above17:24
arnaudbut fairly easy to do17:25
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arnaudthe files in the ova17:25
arnaudare ordered17:25
tflowerI see - for linked clones for example you can assume if the file is there, it's the root disk and not the ova?17:25
tflower..file is there in the datastore I mean17:25
arnaudI guess so yeah17:26
rgerganovwhat happens if the ova contains multiple VMs?17:26
rgerganovis there a "primary" vm?17:26
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arnaudyou mean a vapp rgerganov ?17:26
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rgerganovyes17:27
arnaudwe should take the first one17:27
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arnaudnot sure if Vui tested that17:27
rgerganovok :)17:27
arnaudI will check with him17:27
dimsrgerganov: guess we have to expand slowly...first tackle one ova with one vm and multiple disks first17:27
arnaud+1 dims17:27
arnaudthat was the approach taken by supporting only the root disk initially17:28
arnaudthen expand to more than one17:28
dimsnice17:28
tjonesyes17:28
tflowerthe spec in the BP mentinos the ovf isn't really read yet, at least in the short term17:28
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arnaudactually afaik, in the patch, we read the ovf first17:29
arnaudto know where is the root disk17:29
tflowerah, cool17:29
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tflowerJust to continue on the untarring thing - not sure how to get around this, would that be considered yet another blueprint?17:29
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arnaudI would say yes but I would hope no :)17:30
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tflowerDoes that mean the ova implementation may have some solution for this?17:31
arnaudI think we can come with 2 patches17:31
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tflowerthat would be fantastic17:32
arnaudthe first 1: supporting the root disk, and a dependency to support more than 117:32
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tflowerarnaud:  is there some way I can help out?17:32
arnaudyou can take the patch I mentioned above and try to add the support for multiple disks17:33
arnaudthat would be great17:33
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tjonestflower: need to start with writing the BP in nova-specs and getting it approved17:33
tflowerok great, I will do that17:34
tflowerI guess I will do both (BP and start looking at the code too)17:34
arnaudcool, thanks tflower17:34
arnaudI will rebase the first patch17:34
arnaudby the end of the week17:34
tjonesthanks arnaud17:34
tflowerthanks everyone for taking time in your meeting for me17:34
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arnaud:)17:35
tjonesok anything else people are thinking about for kilo? or anything else for that matter?17:35
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tjones*listening*17:37
dimstjones: we'll have some time carved out in the summit?17:37
dimsfor kilo discussions?17:37
tjonesyes we will - the usual roadmap 20 minutes (i think)17:37
tjonesbut we should meet and talk more before that17:37
arnaud+117:38
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dims+117:38
dimstjones: will try to generate some lists17:38
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tjonesdims: can you add to the etherpad?17:39
dimstjones: yep17:39
tjonesi still have the link to your list from icehouse - sigh17:39
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dimstjones: :)17:39
tjonesok folks if nothing else - lets end early17:40
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tjonesgoing once….17:40
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tjonesok see you next week17:41
tjones#endmeeting17:41
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"17:41
openstackMeeting ended Wed Sep 24 17:41:05 2014 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)17:41
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/vmwareapi/2014/vmwareapi.2014-09-24-17.00.html17:41
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/vmwareapi/2014/vmwareapi.2014-09-24-17.00.txt17:41
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/vmwareapi/2014/vmwareapi.2014-09-24-17.00.log.html17:41
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dimsthanks tjones17:41
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notmynameswift meeting time19:00
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notmyname#startmeeting swift19:00
openstackMeeting started Wed Sep 24 19:00:30 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is notmyname. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.19:00
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.19:00
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*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: swift)"19:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'swift'19:00
notmynamehello, world. who's here for the swift meeting?19:00
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zaitcevo719:00
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cschwedeo/19:00
tdasilvahello19:00
cutforthyo19:00
torgomatic<-19:01
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hurricanerixhi19:01
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notmyname#link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/Swift19:01
notmynamethis week we'll talk about stuff for the juno release mostly, I think19:01
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notmyname#topic general19:01
*** openstack changes topic to "general (Meeting topic: swift)"19:02
mattoliverauo/19:02
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notmynamethe hackathon in the Boston area is next week19:02
notmynameso many of us will see each other in-person there19:02
* cutforth cutforth is bummed he cannot make it to the hackathon19:02
notmynameand therefore I propose we have no online meeting next week19:02
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notmynamecutforth: too bad19:02
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cutforthnotmyname: thanks19:03
notmynamelike at previous ones, next week's schedule will be determined when we're there19:03
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notmynameI'm looking forward to it and to seeing many of you again in person!19:03
notmynameany questions about it (that I can punt to tdasilva)?19:04
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notmynamenext general thing...19:04
notmynamego update bash on your servers. do it today19:04
tdasilvajust a quick note about the hackathon: red hat is taking us to Kimball Farm on Tuesday night for a fun night and dinner, so try not to plan anything for that night19:04
* acoles joins meeting late19:04
notmyname(that one [I don't think] has anything to do with swift, but do it anyway19:04
notmynametdasilva: cool19:04
zaitcevgo go gadget lwn19:05
notmynamenext up, the autoabandoner19:05
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notmynamewe've been running it for long enough to actualy have stuff to abandon19:05
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notmynameany comments or concerns on it?19:05
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notmynameI'd also love for mattoliverau to share his thoughts19:05
mattoliverauit looks like it might be working as since notmyname went through the list last week, it has remained empty19:06
mattoliverauhas anyone been annoyed from the email spamming?19:06
notmynamemattoliverau: and has it caused too much of a burden on you?19:07
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mattoliverauno, not at all, it now has whitelist functionality which I added last week, so now you can whitelist by name, email, subject, username or number19:08
mattoliverau#link http://abandoner.oliver.net.au/abandoned_changes.html19:08
notmynamemattoliverau: thanks for writing it19:09
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notmynamedoesn't sound like there are any concerns, so let's move on :-)19:09
notmyname#topic juno release19:09
*** openstack changes topic to "juno release (Meeting topic: swift)"19:09
notmynamefirst swiftclient19:09
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notmynameacoles discovered that the SwiftService patch broke keystone v3 compat19:09
notmynamewhich is in part because of lack of keystone v3 coverage19:10
notmynamehowever, acoles was also awesome by fixing it and adding keystone v3 test coverage19:10
notmynameso https://review.openstack.org/#/c/123168/ has landed (or is going through jenkins)19:10
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notmynameand that will necessitate a v2.3.1 release of python-swiftclient19:11
notmynameacoles: any other commentary on why it broke or the fix?19:11
mattoliveraucool, nice work acoles19:11
notmynameacoles: thanks for working on it19:11
acoleswell, with hindsight i'd have put those tests in earlier19:11
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mattoliverauwith hindsight there'd be no bugs :P19:12
acolesi think the interface between shell and service is a little confused,19:12
acolesi have spoken with joel wright and agreed there could be some tidy up,19:12
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acolesbut for now wanted to just fix the bug19:12
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acolesThere are some other regressions I have noticed,19:12
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acolese.g. error scenarios (bad CLI options) now dumpt stack traces rather than helpful hints.19:13
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acolesI'm hoping we can put some dev time on adding swiftclient tests19:14
acoles(we == hp)19:14
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notmynameacoles: anything that you've seen that should prevent the release with v3 support fixed?19:15
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acolesnotmyname: just looking for the other bug i filed...19:15
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acoleshttps://bugs.launchpad.net/python-swiftclient/+bug/137258919:16
uvirtbotLaunchpad bug 1372589 in python-swiftclient "'swift stat' prints exception trace when auth fails" [Undecided,New]19:16
notmynamedo we need to revert the SwiftService patch until those regressions are straightened out? or is it cheaper to move forward as-is?19:17
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notmynamethoughts from everyone on this qeustion would be good^19:18
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zaitcevi'm thinking, i'm thinking19:18
torgomaticjust move forward; SwiftService encapsulates a lot of complicated stuff19:19
acolesBTW, that bug report is an example, there's others19:19
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cschwedeacoles: more errors?19:19
zaitcevyeah. I mostly just verified that download works... with that blasted threading and stuff19:19
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torgomaticif we revert it, we go back to a world where you have to shell out to bin/swift or implement your own manifest building just to get a large object19:20
acolescschwede: another example was post (I think) with insufficient auth options just returns silently19:20
zaitcevSince I'm not a user of v3, I have not seen anything fatal yet. I think the move to Requests was far more disruptive.19:20
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notmynameyeah, this does remind me of the move to requests. mostly better, but some nasty regressions that were (mostly) fixed subsequently19:21
notmynameI'm of the mind to move forward19:21
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notmynamedoesn't sound like anyone wants to revert it, so let's consider it settled :-)19:22
acolesso, to be clear, beyond the v3 fix that is in flight, the issues i have seen are yuk output when cli options are bad/missing, i'm not aware of any other functional errors19:22
notmynamethanks19:23
notmynameok, moving forward with juno things...19:23
notmyname#link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Swift/PriorityReviews19:23
notmynamethe juno list has been mostly getting shorter. yay19:24
notmynamewith a mind to timeframes, here's what I know19:24
notmynamethe juno release is happening oct 1619:24
notmynamewe (I) gave a tentative date a while back of a swift RC on oct 619:24
notmynamethat's one week from this coming monday19:24
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notmynamenext week is the hackathon, so we'll either get everything done then or not work on anything19:25
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notmynamethe per-policy container counts is making its way through the gate now19:25
notmynamethe zerocopy GET needs one more +219:25
notmynameI strongly suspect the global replication improvements and the zerocopy PUT won't make it19:26
zaitcevhopefuly hackathon helps rather than hinder despite all the travel19:26
notmyname:-)19:26
* mattoliverau puts on his extra big reviewing and testing hat for the next week or so then.19:26
torgomaticzerocopy PUT isn't even rebased on anything useful at the moment, so... :)19:26
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notmynamecschwede: the partition movement one has a scary commit message https://review.openstack.org/#/c/121422/19:26
torgomaticbesides, I'm working on something that helps EC but drops a bunch of garbage right in the middle of zero-copy PUT19:27
cschwedenotmyname: ?19:27
notmynameas in, I thought we had already figured that out a while back by considering weight before failure domains19:27
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cschwedenotmyname: it's a little bit scary; torgomatic had a patch that respected device weight which helped a lot, but that's not enough19:28
notmynameok19:28
notmynameI guess I mean "scary" as in "there's a use case of adding a new region to an existing cluster that has some known issues"19:28
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cschwedenotmyname: so the problem is this: when adding a new tier, all devices in the tier are "at risk" and selected to reassign. they aren'T reassigned to another tier, thus moving inside the existing tier19:28
notmynameand I thought we had solved that, but apparantly not well enough19:28
notmynameso lots of data shuffling without actually improving placement19:29
cschwedethe added test can be run against the current master branch, then you'll see the difference (amount of moved partitions)19:29
cschwedenotmyname: exactly19:29
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notmynameand your patch makes sure partitions are only moved if it improves placement19:29
notmynamealso "tier" is more than just a region. it would be affected by adding another zone in a region, too, right?19:30
cschwedeyes, by checking first if there are partitions on other tiers that want more partitions19:30
cschwedeyes, regions, zones, nodes, …19:30
cschwedethere was a lot of back-and-forth, but i think Florent and me got it with the latest patchset19:30
notmynameis it only if you are moving up the placement tree? eg you have only one zone and you add another? or what if you already have N zones and add to it?19:30
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cschwedeif you have N zones and add another one it is not that worse, and if you have a large N you might not even notice this19:31
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notmynameok19:32
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notmynameso all that being said, this patch (https://review.openstack.org/#/c/121422/) should land in juno. but it depends on https://review.openstack.org/#/c/120713/7 which needs one more +219:32
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torgomaticthe dependency is pretty straightforward; instead of doing some arithmetic spread throughout the builder, just compare old to new and print the number of differences19:33
notmynameacoles: you had already given a +1 on the dependent path. will you be able to follow-up or do you need someone else to look at it?19:33
acolesnotmyname: yes, tomorrow19:34
notmynameacoles: ack. thanks19:34
torgomaticit's hard not to like, unless you're worried about the builder's memory consumption... and given that you run swift-ring-builder on a machine not in the swift cluster, and then the process exits, who cares?19:34
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notmynametorgomatic: oh I'm sure we could find someone not to like it. I'm told swift devs are cranky ;-)19:34
zaitcevyeah, I run it on proxies and man it's sloooooow for me for some reason19:35
zaitcevbut I know that it's wrong and I shouldn't do it19:35
acolestorgomatic: yeah, i just thought i should run it19:35
notmynameis there anything else that needs to be addressed for the juno release19:35
notmynamealso, the swift release for juno will have swift 2.2.019:36
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notmynameif something does com up, then please let me know asap19:36
notmyname#topic paris summit scheduling19:37
*** openstack changes topic to "paris summit scheduling (Meeting topic: swift)"19:37
notmynamehere's what I know19:37
notmynamethe site we've used in the past is recommended to be not used this time19:38
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notmynamemany other projects are using communal etherpads to come up with topics and figure out scheduling19:38
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notmynameI tend to thing that's a pretty terrible idea (not the communal part, the part about trying to track who's doing what)19:38
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notmynameso I'm asking ttx about using the old site.19:39
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notmynamethat being said, I certainly want to get broad feedback on what to discuss in paris19:39
notmynamewe'll actually have slightly more time, in aggregate, than we did in atlanta19:39
notmynamewe'll have 6 assigned sessions (as opposed to 8 in atlanta), but we'll also have a free-form half-day19:40
notmynameany questions or thoughts you'd like to share on summit shceduling?19:40
notmynameok :-)19:41
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notmynameI'll figure out how we're doing scheduling and let you know when I know19:41
acolesnotmyname: do we get a pod/table like in atlanta? that was useful19:41
notmyname#topic open discussion19:41
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notmynameacoles: no, no room for that in paris19:42
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notmynamewell, actually, we don't get one for just us19:42
notmynamethere are some tables, but they will need to be shared19:42
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notmynameeg pick up the "swift" placard and put it on the table when we talk about stuff19:42
mattoliverauits paris we can just find a cafe ;)19:42
notmynamemattoliverau: great idea!19:42
notmynameI have 2 small other things to bring up19:42
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notmynamefor those of you who have been following the defcore stuff and were concerned about its exclusion of swift, that came to a head last week and was rejected by the foundation board of directors19:43
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notmynameso they are moving forward with a slight change in direction to look at having multiple trademarks instead of just one by which to label "openstack"19:44
notmynamerelated to that, pay attention to the "big tent" email thread on the -dev mailing list19:44
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notmynamethere are some potential big changes being discussed that could affect openstack organization. if you want to know what's going on or influence it, now's the time19:45
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notmynamefinally, some of you may have heard of gnomes' outreach program for women. it's officially kicked off in january, but we have a lady interested in contributing to swift as part of that19:46
notmynameso welcome mahatic and help her out as she works on swift :-)19:46
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notmynameand that's all I've got.19:46
mahatic:) thank you!19:46
notmynameanything else to bring up this week?19:47
mattoliverauyay! welcome mahatic19:47
brnelsonI would like to ask a quick question19:47
notmynamebrnelson: ask away19:47
brnelson I have a question about the sqlite journaling mode.  Right now it's DELETE, but that causes some performance issues on a shared file system.  Does anyone know if other possibilities are being investigated?  I saw this blueprint as one possible alternative:19:47
brnelsonUse WAL journal mode for sqlite:  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/swift/+spec/consider-wal-mode-sqlite19:47
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torgomaticyou mean running multiple container servers against a single file system?19:47
torgomaticdo people really do that outside of a SAIO?19:47
brnelsonYes, but we manage the access to the container dbs through individual nodes so that only one node accesses one container19:48
mahaticthank you mattoliverau . Looking forward.19:48
torgomaticinteresting... that's the first I've heard of anyone doing that. out of curiosity, why do that instead of using plain old SSDs?19:49
torgomatic(sorry if I'm derailing the conversation)19:49
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brnelsonour main product is  a shared file system and some customers want to have a Swift object solution using our filesystem19:50
torgomatichuh. well, TIL19:50
torgomatic:)19:50
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brnelsonI'll be at the hackathon and can discuss some of the adventures we've had getting it to work19:51
acolesnotmyname: i have a quick update re data migration, https://review.openstack.org/#/c/64430/19:51
torgomaticI think the primary use case is still directly-attached plain old filesystems, but if WAL mode speeds up (or doesn't harm) that use case, it may be worth considering19:51
notmynametorgomatic: ++19:52
torgomaticIOW, I'm not too terribly interested in changes that benefit the shared-FS case while harming the XFS-on-a-disk case, but anything that helps both is fair game19:52
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notmynamebrnelson: let's dive into it next week!19:52
brnelsonit could perhaps be a configuration property used in the shared filesystem case.  It wouldn't necessarily have to be always enabled19:53
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notmynamebrnelson: but specifically for your question, I don't know of anyone currently working in that area (for that problem or others)19:53
brnelsonok. thanks19:53
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notmynamebut I'm glad you're looking at it19:53
notmynameacoles: what's your update for the migration middleware?19:54
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acolesso imho its now in good shape, i would +2 but I've had some input so ideally would leave for others to +219:54
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notmynamegood to hear19:55
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notmynamethanks for working on it so much up to this point19:56
acoleswell, gvernik has been very willing to adapt (btw he's on vacation so not here)19:56
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notmynameok19:56
acolesand tdasilva made some great input which has been incorporated.19:56
notmynamedo you remember if he's going to be in boston next week?19:57
tdasilvai don't think so19:57
acolesi think not, but he is going to paris19:57
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notmynameok19:57
notmynameanything else from anyone?19:57
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notmynameok. remember that we don't have an online meeting next week in lieu of the in-person meeting19:58
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notmynamethanks for coming19:58
mattoliverau:(19:58
notmynamethanks for you work on swift!19:58
notmyname#endmeeting19:58
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"19:58
openstackMeeting ended Wed Sep 24 19:58:55 2014 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)19:58
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/swift/2014/swift.2014-09-24-19.00.html19:58
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/swift/2014/swift.2014-09-24-19.00.txt19:58
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/swift/2014/swift.2014-09-24-19.00.log.html19:59
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notmynamemattoliverau: just means you can sleep late ;-)19:59
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mattoliveraunotmyname: lol true :)19:59
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zaneb#startmeeting heat20:02
openstackMeeting started Wed Sep 24 20:02:39 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is zaneb. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.20:02
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.20:02
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: heat)"20:02
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'heat'20:02
ryansbhey folks20:02
BillArnoldhi20:02
zanebI know stevebaker has been waiting for 24 hours for this :)20:03
pas-halol20:03
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stevebaker\o/20:03
tspatzierhi20:03
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zanebstevebaker: do we really need a FFE status agenda item, or was that a copy-paste fail?20:04
stevebakerits copypasta20:04
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zanebit's goneburger20:05
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zaneb#topic Review action items from last meeting20:05
*** openstack changes topic to "Review action items from last meeting (Meeting topic: heat)"20:05
zaneb#link http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/heat/2014/heat.2014-09-17-12.00.html20:06
zanebreview python-heatclient support for merged features as a priority20:06
zanebwe got all that stuff in!20:06
pas-hahttps://review.openstack.org/#/c/122934/20:06
zanebthanks everyone20:06
zanebnice job on the release stevebaker20:06
pas-hastack check is missing20:06
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zanebdoh!20:07
stevebakerthere are a couple of regressions which will need a 0.2.12, likely today20:07
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zanebbecause it wasn't submitted until this weekend :/20:07
stevebakerpas-ha, is it ready for review?20:07
pas-hastevebaker, seems so20:07
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stevebakerpas-ha, ok, lets review that for inclusion in 0.2.1220:07
pas-haI've +1 already20:08
stevebaker#action all review https://review.openstack.org/#/c/122934/20:08
zanebok20:09
ryansbrelated: I'm ready to package 0.2.12 once it's set to go20:09
zanebtherve sync oslo incubator20:09
zanebnot sure if that happened?20:09
pas-haI did not see it in reviews20:09
zaneb#action therve sync oslo incubator20:09
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zaneb#topic Adding items to the agenda20:09
*** openstack changes topic to "Adding items to the agenda (Meeting topic: heat)"20:09
zaneb#link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/HeatAgenda#Agenda_.282014-09-24_2000_UTC.2920:10
zanebanything else?20:10
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stevebakerzaneb, how about discuss deprecating HARestarter20:10
zanebwe already discussed that once, do we have any new information?20:11
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stevebakeran actual review https://review.openstack.org/#/c/121702/20:11
pas-haalso deprecating CWLiteAlarms20:11
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zanebstevebaker: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/121824/ <- what did you think started that discussion?20:12
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stevebakerlol, I did a search but didn't find that20:13
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zaneboh wait, you were first by the looks of it20:13
stevebakercarry on20:13
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stevebakeryours has enhanced verbosity20:13
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zaneblol20:14
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zanebok, lots of time available for...20:15
zaneb#topic Release cadence20:15
*** openstack changes topic to "Release cadence (Meeting topic: heat)"20:15
pas-haI've added CWLiteAlarms to agenda20:15
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zanebso IMO mordred's proposal on release cadence has both up- and down-sides for us20:16
zanebbut I think before we can have that discussion, we need to have a discussion about standalone mode20:17
stevebakerSo if you haven't already read http://inaugust.com/post/108 you should. mordred's suggestion #10 is that end-user tools like heat and horizon should adopt a rolling release model so that users get the user-focused features as soon as they are available. this likely affects ttx and david-lyle too. Discuss!20:17
pas-haI actually fail to see a use-case for rolling release - how many clouds are running openstack master?20:17
zanebbecause the truth is that atm Heat requires tight integration with Keystone to be really useful20:17
stevebakerpas-ha, rackspace20:18
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pas-hado they run the whole openstack from master? ot just Heat?20:18
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zanebI'm not sure if it's working for HP because they have their proprietary-not-keystone auth thing still (do they?)20:18
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zanebor if they just make very limited use of Heat20:18
stevebakerzaneb, we're close to using swift TempURLs for all the things, so we won't even need to create users for resources soon20:18
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zanebstevebaker: that might help one part of the issue20:19
stevebakerI think HP are waiting for heat to scale20:19
zanebthe other part is trusts20:19
stevebakerwith standalone, password deferred auth seems entirely appropriate since it is their heat20:19
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zanebso maybe we need a (potentially cross-project) plan to address standalone mode20:20
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zanebbut that would be a pre-requisite to changing the release cycle20:20
zanebthat said, I would still personally be -1 on changing the release cadence20:20
stevebakerI cleaned up devstack support recently, and it works quite well https://review.openstack.org/#/c/123330/20:21
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ryansbI see a value in it for active contributors (Rackspace) but I don't think it'd be good for the Heat community overall20:21
ryansbesp. since Rackspace serves its own needs just by running master20:22
stevebakerI think we should only do it if horizon does. It is unfortunate that a feature that adds one property to a resource can't be delivered to users who want it for 6 months20:22
mordredso - the reason I was suggesting rolling release is to support folks running them as end-user tenants20:23
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stevebakermordred, you mean standalone?20:23
mordredyes20:23
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mordredbecause if I'm running standalone heat _against_ A cloud, waiting for 6 months to pick up support for a new feature just because seems silly20:23
mordredI obviously might be wrong of course20:24
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stevebakermilestones tend to get packaged downstream anyway, so they can always consume those. Or the impending docker images which might be available at whatever cadence20:24
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zanebmordred: yeah, that sucks. but I'm not sure that it is _more_ true of Heat/Horizon than of any other program20:24
mordredyah. it may even just be more having awareness that heat may be running against a different version of the cloud than it was written for20:24
zanebit sucks that you ever have to wait for features20:25
mordredindeed20:25
zanebbut we do also do releases for a reason20:25
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stevebakerother programs only expose themselves to users as the REST APIs, which really shouldn't change that much20:25
zanebwhich is that it's really hard to be not broken 100% of the time20:25
mordred++20:25
stevebakerand feature freeze is a mess of big features which have never worked together before20:26
stevebaker(sometimes. juno has been pretty smooth)20:26
david-lylemordred: why not just pull master20:26
zanebalso, releases are organised around the Summit, &c.20:27
zanebit's moderately convenient for us as developers20:27
david-lylethat's as rolling as you get20:27
david-lyle:)20:27
stevebakeryes, basically our gating should be good enough to ensure master can always be consumed. If it isn't then we need to improve functional and integration testing20:28
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stevebakermordred, as for multi-cloud, it will be implemented as nested stacks. So a sub-template will be launched with different credentials to a different cloud. There will always be one default keystone that gets authenticated against first though20:30
mordreddavid-lyle: that would work - it's just to make sure that master of horizon/heat could run against $releases20:30
mordredstevebaker: kk20:30
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zanebstevebaker: not if your master Heat is a standalone one, that one need not auth with keystone at all in theory except to create the child stacks20:31
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stevebakerzaneb, we could have some noop middleware, yes20:32
* asalkeld rubs eyes- sorry , a bit early here20:32
zanebasalkeld: we're discussing mordred's thoughts on release cadence20:33
asalkeldo, ok20:33
asalkeldnot a bad idea, nice in some ways20:34
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zanebconclusion: maybe, maybe not, need to get standalone mode into properly working shape first in any event20:34
mordred++20:34
stevebakerzaneb, a while ago I was close to having multi-cloud standalone working, so that heat.conf had a list of allowed keystone endpoints, and heatclient specified which one to use. I still think that has some merit but I need more buy-in - otherwise we may as well deprecate it20:35
mordrednot that I normally list this as a reason to care about things ...20:35
mordredbut we do have a very large internal customer at HP running standalone heat in production20:35
mordredso, fwiw, there's at least one real world person who cares20:35
zanebmordred: I'm curious if they're using it with Keystone?20:35
asalkeldwe might need to be better at autodiscovering services and features20:35
mordrednot any more so than an unpriviledged user has20:35
stevebakermordred, good to know. I'm edging towards having a gate job that exercises standalone20:36
zanebbecause Keystone has a lot of limitations that prevent standalone mode from being really something we could recommend at the moment20:36
mordredthat woudl be great - I could probably find someone to help20:36
asalkeldit would be nice to have user based services20:36
mordredasalkeld: ++20:36
asalkeldthen a user could add the heat service20:36
mordredwe were just discussing that the other day20:37
mordredwith morganfainberg20:37
mordred(I think)20:37
mordredbut I'd LOVE to be able to do that20:37
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zanebmordred: it's also probably only secure because they're running it inside your firewall20:37
mordredzaneb: they are not20:37
mordredzaneb: this is against hp public cloud20:37
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asalkeldalso with a paas, you could be super flexible in defining services20:37
zanebthen they're opening up ports for instances to talk back to Heat? or perhaps they're just not using those features20:37
zanebmordred: ^20:38
mordredthey are not using those features20:38
mordredit's all for creating 50-node single-purpose stacks and deleting them, AIUI20:38
stevebakerzaneb, swift TempURL makes all that unnecessary20:38
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zanebmordred: ah, ok. but those are pretty important features for most users20:38
zanebin any event, stuff we have planned will fix that20:38
zaneblike stevebaker said20:38
mordredzaneb: totally20:38
ryansbUsing zaqar would also make it unnecessary. ;)20:38
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stevebakerryansb, yes!20:39
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zanebputting communication with the instances through Swift or Zaqar or both will solve the problem20:39
stevebakerwhich may end up being backed by swift ;)20:39
zanebmordred: can we have Zaqar graduated now please? ;)20:39
* flaper87 sneaks in, reads, smiles and steps away20:39
asalkeldmore service dependancy is going to make standalone tricky20:39
ryansbyeah...kinda defeats standalone mode's purpose20:39
ryansb"It's standalone...as long as it's with these other things"20:40
stevebakerasalkeld, it will always be optional. the template author chooses their transports20:40
asalkeldsure, ssh based waitcond. anyone?20:40
asalkeldmore options, more testing20:40
zanebasalkeld: that has its own issues, with isolated networks20:41
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stevebakerand heat storing private keys... just no.20:41
asalkeldstevebaker, this is in standalone mode20:41
asalkeldso the sure should have the key20:42
asalkeldso the user should have the key20:42
zanebstevebaker: as much as I don't like it storing passwords in standalone mode, storing keys is not so much worse20:42
zanebbut only in standalone mode20:42
zaneband there should be big warning signs20:42
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zanebremind me why Keystone isn't just kerberos again?20:43
stevebakerasalkeld, sure, its still more for the user to set up than TempURL, since they need to make sure there is incoming ssh security group (which generally they already will)20:43
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asalkeldif the user is running heat-engine it could just look in .ssh/20:43
stevebakerzaneb, I think they're working on it ;)20:43
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zaneboh, excellent20:43
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asalkeld(anyways, semi crazy idea - the ssh thing)20:44
stevebakerso I think we've nicely covered mordred #8, #9, #1020:44
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asalkeldso the big thing with standalone is "what can we depend on for services that we really need"20:45
zanebI think we already have a process for #7 via /contrib20:45
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zanebasalkeld: only things required for Wordpress, apparently20:46
asalkeldzaneb, the one that mordred is super happy about;)20:46
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zanebso I hear ;)20:46
asalkeldok20:46
stevebakeryep, it would be nice if there was some process for big-tent projects to require writing heat plugins, just to validate that their REST API isn't rubbish. mordred?20:46
asalkeldthey have the plugin in their tree20:47
zanebasalkeld: I posted a very long mail to the list disagreeing with that concept today20:47
asalkeldlol20:47
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zaneb(the Wordpress-only concept, that is)20:47
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ryansbzaneb: don't you know? People only ever use their clouds to host wordpress20:48
ryansbGet with the times.20:48
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asalkeldbasically we shouldn't need plugins, if people had jsonschema20:48
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asalkeldit could be automagical20:48
asalkeldfor the basic cases20:48
zanebI think convergence may well make the plugins simpler20:49
stevebakerI need to go. If you're looking for something to do our rc1 bugs need to go to zero https://launchpad.net/heat/+milestone/juno-rc120:49
zanebthere are still some terrible APIs out there though :(20:49
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zanebI won't name names20:49
asalkeldyeah20:49
zanebagain20:49
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asalkeldhttps://review.openstack.org/#/c/122627/20:50
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asalkeldtool to get you reviews based on bugs20:50
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zanebnifty20:51
zanebI guess this means we have come to the end of this topic :)20:51
zaneb#topic Deprecating CWLiteAlarms20:51
*** openstack changes topic to "Deprecating CWLiteAlarms (Meeting topic: heat)"20:51
zanebpas-ha: go20:51
pas-hagiven asalkeld's https://review.openstack.org/#/c/123039/ that tries to solve orphan stackwatch tasks I'd like to hear if there is indeed a plan to deprecate heat-native autoscaling.20:52
pas-haI know some and suspect there are more clouds that use Nova network and do not deploy ceilometer. For them the only openstack-y loadbalancing solution is our's (probably crappy) AWS LoadBalancer, that depends on.. CWLiteAlarm.20:52
zanebI don't know if we have a plan to deprecate, but +1 if we do20:52
pas-haSo, are we going to prohibit such use-case?20:52
asalkeldpas-ha, aws lb doesn't depend on cwlite does it?20:53
asalkeldafaik it depends on cw alarms20:53
asalkeldbtw: https://review.openstack.org/#/dashboard/?foreach=status%3Aopen+NOT+owner%3Aself&title=Priortized+Bug+Fix+Dashboard&&Milestone+juno-rc1+Importance+High=change%3A122592+OR+change%3A121693+OR+change%3A123417+OR+change%3A122568&Milestone+juno-rc1+Importance+Medium=change%3A90109+OR+change%3A84664+OR+change%3A110713+OR+change%3A123291+OR+change%3A122274+OR+change%3A123039+OR+change%3A123023&Milestone+juno-rc1+Impo20:53
asalkeldrtance+Low=change%3A11707620:53
stevebakerlets push metrics to swift TempURLs!20:53
* stevebaker is really gone now20:53
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zanebour AWS LB is indeed terrible, for the record20:53
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asalkeldwe should at some point take cwlite out of the tree20:54
asalkeldand make it an api20:54
pas-hayes, indeed, was confused by all our remappings20:54
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asalkeldthat ceilometer and the new monitoring thing can implement20:55
pas-ha+20:55
asalkeldwhy do all the new project have names i can't spell or pronounce20:55
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asalkeldmonasca and zaqar20:56
zanebasalkeld: I've seen your spelling and that's not a high bar ;)20:56
asalkeld:)20:56
zanebbut seriously, all English words are taken20:56
zanebusually multiple times over20:56
ryansbbut seriously, we ran out of names.20:56
asalkeldryansb, tell me you had nothing to do with zaqar20:57
asalkeldpas-ha, are you ok with the cwlite deprecation?20:57
ryansbNothing at all. I do take great pleasure in pronouncing zaqar in a thick french accent though.20:58
pas-hastill looking and parsing those mappings of one to another..20:58
asalkeldok20:58
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asalkeldpas-ha, i am a bit worried real users are consuming cwlite20:58
asalkeldit's a toy20:58
asalkeldwe probably need to have monasca integration20:59
pas-haI will ask my colleagues on real life deployments20:59
asalkeldwe are out of time?20:59
pas-haIMO no critical issues, no?21:00
zanebwow, that went quick21:00
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zaneb#endmeeting21:00
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"21:00
openstackMeeting ended Wed Sep 24 21:00:26 2014 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)21:00
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/heat/2014/heat.2014-09-24-20.02.html21:00
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/heat/2014/heat.2014-09-24-20.02.txt21:00
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/heat/2014/heat.2014-09-24-20.02.log.html21:00
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* asalkeld off to read the first half21:00
zanebjump back to #heat if you have critical issues to discuss21:00
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-openstackstatus- NOTICE: The openstack-infra/config repo will be frozen for project-configuration changes starting at 00:01 UTC. If you have a pending configuration change that has not merged or is not in the queue, please see us in #openstack-infra.21:58
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