| Daisy | Hello, who is around for I18n meeting? | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| ujuc | yes ;) | 00:00 |
| Daisy | Hi, ujuc | 00:00 |
| Daisy | Thank you for attending. | 00:00 |
| ujuc | Hi, Daisy :)) | 00:00 |
| epico | Hi, Daisy :) | 00:00 |
| Daisy | #startmeeting OpenStack I18n Meeting | 00:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Thu Jul 17 00:01:00 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is Daisy. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 00:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 00:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: OpenStack I18n Meeting)" | 00:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'openstack_i18n_meeting' | 00:01 |
| Daisy | Good morning, epico | 00:01 |
| ujuc | Hi, epico :) | 00:01 |
| Daisy | It looks like we don't have attendees from America | 00:01 |
| epico | Good morning, Daisy. | 00:01 |
| epico | Hi, ujuc | 00:01 |
| ujuc | yes..+_+ | 00:01 |
| Daisy | So I'm considering to use only 1 time slot for our meeting. | 00:01 |
| Daisy | Then we could have a whole team meeting, not only Asia. :) | 00:02 |
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| ujuc | o~ ho | 00:02 |
| Daisy | Let's start. | 00:03 |
| Daisy | #topic Design of translators contribution scoring system | 00:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Design of translators contribution scoring system (Meeting topic: OpenStack I18n Meeting)" | 00:03 | |
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| Daisy | So in order to promote translators contribution, I want to design a translation scoring system. | 00:03 |
| Daisy | Like: | 00:03 |
| Daisy | translate an item +1 | 00:04 |
| Daisy | review an item +1 | 00:04 |
| Daisy | give a suggestion +1 | 00:04 |
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| Daisy | The scores could be reviewed by person, company and national. | 00:04 |
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| Daisy | Contributions could be ranked by person, company and national. | 00:05 |
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| Daisy | There are different weights for contributions in different periods | 00:06 |
| Daisy | For example, the weight of contributions in the latest month is 1.1 | 00:06 |
| Daisy | the weight of contributions in the last 3 month is 1 | 00:07 |
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| Daisy | the weight of contributions before the last 3 month is 0.9 | 00:07 |
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| ujuc | translate item is - transalte document all? chapt? | 00:07 |
| Daisy | one string | 00:08 |
| ujuc | ha~~ | 00:08 |
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| ujuc | ah :) | 00:08 |
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| ujuc | transifex is supo | 00:09 |
| ujuc | sorry..; | 00:09 |
| Daisy | hehe | 00:09 |
| ujuc | trasifex is support??? | 00:09 |
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| Daisy | I need API support from translation tools. | 00:09 |
| Daisy | No, transifex doesn't support. | 00:09 |
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| ujuc | um :| | 00:10 |
| Daisy | Translation tool should support API to get the contributions of each contributor. | 00:10 |
| Daisy | Then we could make a program of our own scoring system. | 00:10 |
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| Daisy | I hope Zanata or Pootle could support it. | 00:10 |
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| ujuc | :) good (^_^)b | 00:11 |
| Daisy | Do you have any concerns or suggestions to this scoring system? | 00:11 |
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| ujuc | high score is reward(?) ?? | 00:12 |
| Daisy | hehe | 00:12 |
| Daisy | If your rank is top, it's a kind of recognition. | 00:13 |
| ujuc | 賞品 | 00:13 |
| Daisy | No real reward. | 00:13 |
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| ujuc | okok | 00:13 |
| ujuc | :) | 00:13 |
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| Daisy | hehe | 00:15 |
| ujuc | I hope sharing the Wiki or etherpad. | 00:15 |
| ujuc | this topic :) | 00:15 |
| Daisy | Nice suggestion. | 00:15 |
| Daisy | I could create an etherpad. | 00:15 |
| ujuc | yeap | 00:15 |
| Daisy | We could all contribute to the design. | 00:15 |
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| ujuc | :) | 00:16 |
| Daisy | #action Daisy to input the scoring system design to the etherpad. | 00:16 |
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| Daisy | let's move forward. | 00:16 |
| ujuc | yes | 00:16 |
| Daisy | #Documents' categorization | 00:16 |
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| Daisy | In the last meeting, Fdot and I planned to categorize documents, in order to provide information for translation teams to select top priority documents. | 00:17 |
| Daisy | There is a draft design now. | 00:17 |
| Daisy | I'm going to create a table. | 00:17 |
| Daisy | The row titles are the changes of documents: frequently change, a few change, seldom change | 00:19 |
| Daisy | The column titles are the audience of documents: end user, admin, developer | 00:19 |
| Daisy | Then put documents into cells. | 00:19 |
| Daisy | That table may help translators to select documents for translation. | 00:20 |
| Daisy | Comments? | 00:20 |
| ujuc | each documents... table? | 00:20 |
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| epico | guess one table and documents to be filled? | 00:21 |
| Daisy | The goal is to categorize documents | 00:21 |
| epico | and document size? | 00:22 |
| Daisy | One table with rows and columns | 00:22 |
| Daisy | Row is: frequently change, a few change, seldom change | 00:22 |
| Daisy | Column is for end user, for admin, for developer | 00:22 |
| Daisy | Then a document could be put into a cell. | 00:23 |
| Daisy | Like, operation guide is for admin and frequently changed. | 00:23 |
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| Daisy | Size may be a dimension. | 00:23 |
| Daisy | And version could be another dimension too. | 00:24 |
| Daisy | Documents have a lot of versions. | 00:24 |
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| epico | or just put document size together with document name. | 00:25 |
| Daisy | So I also need to consider the size and versions. | 00:25 |
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| Daisy_ | Sorry, connection just broken. | 00:27 |
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| Daisy_ | I'm back. | 00:27 |
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| Daisy_ | Any other suggestions? | 00:27 |
| Daisy_ | OK. | 00:27 |
| Daisy_ | Next topic | 00:27 |
| Daisy_ | #topic New time slot for the second IRC meeting every month | 00:28 |
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| Daisy_ | We discussed this at the beginning. | 00:28 |
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| Daisy_ | I'm considering to use only 1 time slot for i18n meetings. | 00:28 |
| Daisy_ | #action Daisy to send to ML to ask if the second time slot could be removed and use only 1 time slot. | 00:29 |
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| Daisy_ | #topic Open discussion | 00:29 |
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| Daisy_ | ujuc: since the Korean API document have been translated, let's work together to have it published. | 00:30 |
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| Daisy_ | I think, you only need to provide the main page. | 00:30 |
| *** Daisy_ is now known as Daisy | 00:30 | |
| ujuc | yes | 00:30 |
| ujuc | weekend doing.. | 00:31 |
| Daisy | You had sent me a main page before. | 00:31 |
| ujuc | :) | 00:31 |
| Daisy | OK. Just revise it. | 00:31 |
| Daisy | Thanks. | 00:31 |
| ujuc | yeap :) | 00:31 |
| Daisy | I will work with you together to have Chinese document main page. :) | 00:31 |
| ujuc | ah ~~ :)) | 00:31 |
| Daisy | any other topics to discuss? | 00:32 |
| ujuc | no, me. :) | 00:32 |
| Daisy | great | 00:32 |
| Daisy | how about you, epico? | 00:32 |
| epico | not from me. | 00:32 |
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| Daisy | Thank you, guys. | 00:33 |
| Daisy | We have a short meeting. | 00:33 |
| epico | thanks | 00:33 |
| Daisy | Thank you for attending this early meeting. | 00:33 |
| Daisy | Hope you have a nice day. | 00:33 |
| Daisy | #endmeeting | 00:33 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 00:33 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Thu Jul 17 00:33:35 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 00:33 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack_i18n_meeting/2014/openstack_i18n_meeting.2014-07-17-00.01.html | 00:33 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack_i18n_meeting/2014/openstack_i18n_meeting.2014-07-17-00.01.txt | 00:33 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack_i18n_meeting/2014/openstack_i18n_meeting.2014-07-17-00.01.log.html | 00:33 |
| ujuc | have a nice day :), Daisy and epico :) | 00:33 |
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| epico | ujuc, you, too | 00:36 |
| ujuc | :) | 00:36 |
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| jorgem | hello everyone | 13:59 |
| blogan | \o/ | 13:59 |
| sballe_ | morning | 13:59 |
| jorgem | #startmeeting neutron lbaas | 14:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Thu Jul 17 14:00:06 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is jorgem. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 14:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 14:00 |
| TrevorV_ | \o\ /o/ | 14:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: neutron lbaas)" | 14:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'neutron_lbaas' | 14:00 |
| rm_work | o/ | 14:00 |
| evgenyf | hello | 14:00 |
| vjay | hi | 14:00 |
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| dougwig | o/ | 14:00 |
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| sballe_ | jorgem, I would like to add one item to the ageand. We talked about enhancing the existing reference driver for juno. Is that still in the plans? | 14:00 |
| jorgem | Does anyone have anything they want to add to the agenda? | 14:00 |
| sbalukoff1 | Morning! | 14:00 |
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| aburaschi | hi | 14:01 |
| sballe_ | jorgem, lol | 14:01 |
| blogan | sballe_: I am currently doing this | 14:01 |
| s3wong | hello | 14:01 |
| sballe_ | blogan, oh fantastic! | 14:01 |
| avishayb | hi | 14:01 |
| jorgem | sballe_: yes phil and doug started that I believe | 14:02 |
| blogan | sballe_: you mean the reference implemenatation to work with the new api right? | 14:02 |
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| jorgem | sballe_: Would you still like me to add that to the agenda? | 14:03 |
| sballe_ | blogan, I was also wondering if we were adding any other functionaltiy. At some poitn we had talked about adding HA just to make it a little moe usable before we have Octavia and I am not sure what the edn conclusion ended up being | 14:03 |
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| sballe_ | jorgem, no. I'll follow up with blogan | 14:03 |
| jorgem | sballe_: I don't think HA was part of that | 14:03 |
| jorgem | sballe_: Just API functionality was going to be implemented | 14:03 |
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| jorgem | Anyone else have agenda items they would like added? | 14:04 |
| blogan | sballe_: no that woudl require way too much time and we need to get this out asap, so I'm just focusing on it being able to do current features | 14:04 |
| sballe_ | jorgem, ok fair enough. | 14:04 |
| jorgem | Here is the current agenda: | 14:04 |
| jorgem | •Review Updates | 14:04 |
| jorgem | •Discuss blockers and how to mitigate | 14:04 |
| jorgem | ◦Juno release coming quickly! | 14:04 |
| jorgem | •Discuss reference implementation | 14:04 |
| sbalukoff1 | It was my understanding that the reference implementation needed to do things like L7 and TLS so that these features could be adopted. But HA was not part of this, as it doesn't affect the user API. | 14:04 |
| xgerman | +1 | 14:04 |
| jorgem | sbalukoff1: Correct. | 14:04 |
| blogan | sbalukoff1: correct but I won't be implementing TLS or L7 this time, that should be left to the TLS and L7 blueprints to implement | 14:05 |
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| sballe_ | sbalukoff1, ok good enough for me. No HA. | 14:05 |
| vjay | jorgem: TLS: Closing on SubjectAltName and TLS: Conflict Resolution during SNI | 14:05 |
| jorgem | Okay, well I think agenda is set then. Let's continue with this topic. | 14:05 |
| vjay | i want both of them to be added | 14:05 |
| jorgem | #topic Discuss reference implementation | 14:05 |
| sbalukoff | blogan: True. | 14:05 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Discuss reference implementation (Meeting topic: neutron lbaas)" | 14:05 | |
| dougwig | we're actually removing some features (the agent, which hurts scalability), and adding others (tls/l7, if/when those features hit), since no feature/api can be released with an implementation of some kind. | 14:05 |
| vjay | apologies for the late addition | 14:06 |
| dougwig | /with/without/ | 14:06 |
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| ctracey | Hi all | 14:06 |
| jorgem | vjay: no worries I got it | 14:06 |
| blogan | dougwig: this is true, hopefully people understand that this reference implementation version is only meant for devstack deployments and testing | 14:06 |
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| sbalukoff | blogan: Well, *we* understand that. But I'm not sure it's possible to telegraph that message to the rest of the OpenStack community. :P | 14:07 |
| jorgem | dougwig: Eventually we were aiming to make Octavia the reference implementation once it becomes operator grade I believe? | 14:07 |
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| sballe_ | blogan, I agree. We had just had some discussion in the past around this and I just wanted us to be on the same page. | 14:07 |
| ctracey | Of you build it someone will put it into "prod" | 14:07 |
| ctracey | If | 14:08 |
| xgerman | sbalukoff +1 -- wonder when we get asked in the irc about scalability bugs | 14:08 |
| dougwig | yes, and yes, but blogan's plan, which i 100% agree with, is that we have to get *something* in in order to ship any of this, or we risk getting punted out of juno entirely. | 14:08 |
| sbalukoff | xgerman: Haha! | 14:08 |
| sbalukoff | Yep! | 14:08 |
| sballe_ | The issue is that today there is no Neutron LBaaS that can used in production/ | 14:08 |
| xgerman | well, if we omit the hardware appliances... | 14:09 |
| blogan | apparently the agent haproxy is being used in production somewhere | 14:09 |
| sballe_ | which is fine. We just need to make sure people understand that | 14:09 |
| dougwig | sballe_: correction, there is no fully open-source neutron lbaas that can be used in production. | 14:09 |
| ctracey | sballe_: yet folks are doing just that. | 14:09 |
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| dougwig | which is arguably true of neutron itself right now. | 14:09 |
| sbalukoff | dougwig: +1 | 14:09 |
| sballe_ | dougwig, Yes thanks for corecting me :) | 14:09 |
| blogan | dougwig is good at correcting people | 14:09 |
| sballe_ | dougwig, our public cloud is using Neutron in production | 14:10 |
| xgerman | so we need to add some startup message to the os driver "Don't use that in production" | 14:10 |
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| blogan | xgerman: or just inject a header | 14:10 |
| ctracey | dougwig: as is our private cloud | 14:10 |
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| sballe_ | ctracey, I agree with you. People will be using it in production but at their own risk | 14:10 |
| dougwig | with stock ml2 ova? | 14:10 |
| dougwig | ovs? | 14:11 |
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| dougwig | auto-correct and openstack acronyms do not get along. :) | 14:11 |
| jorgem | What's the status on the reference implementation assuming the features we want are exposed? | 14:11 |
| sballe_ | dougwig, We have our own SDN plugin | 14:11 |
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| jorgem | blogan: ? ptoohill ? | 14:11 |
| xgerman | dougwig, in Atalnta we had like three ralks on nhow to make Neutron work -- that's just not the scope of this meeting ;-) | 14:11 |
| ptoohill | its in progress atm | 14:11 |
| rm_work | dougwig: Rackspace has our own OVS plugin (Quark, I believe) but it is fully open source IIRC :P | 14:12 |
| dougwig | well, neither is the ref implementation, so... :-) | 14:12 |
| ptoohill | Ill be working on some tests for the driver itself, while blogan will be updating managers | 14:12 |
| blogan | jorgem: its close to being in a reviewable state, large effort still required on tests, stats and health monitoring | 14:12 |
| jorgem | blogan: Okay cool. No blockers though right? | 14:12 |
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| ptoohill | No blockers i can think of at this point jorgem | 14:13 |
| jorgem | Speaking of blockers let's move to that topic | 14:14 |
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| jorgem | #topic Discuss blockers and mitigation tactics | 14:14 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Discuss blockers and mitigation tactics (Meeting topic: neutron lbaas)" | 14:14 | |
| jorgem | So, Juno is coming up quite quickly | 14:14 |
| ctracey | I'm with blogan...very close to review | 14:14 |
| * TrevorV_ thinks jorgem brought that up just to get a good segue | 14:15 | |
| ctracey | For the CLI bits | 14:15 |
| sballe_ | jorgem, juno-2 right? | 14:15 |
| blogan | a big blocker is getting this reference implementation done because the v2 APi won't get merged until it has a reference implementation workign with it | 14:15 |
| jorgem | Well, what is the absolute last day we can get code merged? | 14:15 |
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| jorgem | I'm a little confused on the cycles | 14:15 |
| blogan | for Juno-2, I think its Monday | 14:15 |
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| xgerman | next week, Monday? | 14:16 |
| jorgem | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Juno_Release_Schedule | 14:16 |
| blogan | maybe thats when the code has to be in for review | 14:16 |
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| jorgem | 1) Is sept. 18th the absolute last day? | 14:17 |
| ptoohill | thought that was for the bps, isnt the 20th last day for BP approval? | 14:17 |
| jorgem | I just want us all to be on the same page | 14:17 |
| sballe_ | I talked to mestery yesterday and he said he was going to be busy Mon, Tues and Wed of next week with Juno-2 related task | 14:17 |
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| ptoohill | which, if so, is a big blocker for TLS stuff if we cant get those approved in time. Im hoping im just misunderstanding the due dates | 14:18 |
| blogan | hey i know people are waiting on the reference implementation, but what can be done in the meantime to speed up everything thats waiting on this? | 14:19 |
| xgerman | jorgem can you check with mestery on dates and update us on the ML? | 14:19 |
| jorgem | xgerman: lol sure | 14:19 |
| xgerman | thanks | 14:19 |
| jorgem | #action jorgem to check on Neutron due dates | 14:20 |
| jorgem | To blogans question anything else that can be worked on at the moment? | 14:20 |
| ctracey | blogan: let's iterate closer over the next few days. I'd be happy to help bang this out. | 14:20 |
| jorgem | I'm starting to feel that we won't get work completed in time | 14:20 |
| blogan | one thing people can do is make sure they're able to deploy the new code, and actually make requests to the API. I'm sure I've made some mistakes on that so just doing that would be great. Plus getting a good understanding of the code woudl be beneficial for everyone. | 14:21 |
| ctracey | ++ | 14:21 |
| xgerman | ++ | 14:21 |
| crc32 | +++ | 14:21 |
| blogan | ctracey: sure whenever you got time | 14:21 |
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| xgerman | also I saw the tempest test not being reviewed -- can we get more eyes on that? | 14:21 |
| blogan | xgerman: link? | 14:22 |
| jorgem | #action: ctracey and blogan to work closely over the next few days | 14:22 |
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| dougwig | if you have trouble deploying the code, hit us up on the lbaas channel. | 14:22 |
| ctracey | Can free up most of today and probably all of tomorrow. | 14:22 |
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| sbalukoff | I think this list is still being maintained listing all the gerrit stuff that concerns Neutron LBaaS: https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/lbaas_reviews | 14:22 |
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| xgerman | yep, that's where I ran across that | 14:23 |
| samuelbercovici1 | can someone point to the patch of tempest test? | 14:23 |
| dougwig | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/lbaas_reviews | 14:23 |
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| xgerman | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/106089/ | 14:23 |
| blogan | sbalukoff: thanks that has the tempest link | 14:23 |
| ptoohill | thanks for keeping this updated dougwig | 14:24 |
| xgerman | we should link that form our main wiki | 14:24 |
| sbalukoff | Yes, thanks dougwig! | 14:24 |
| xgerman | +1 | 14:24 |
| sballe_ | ctracey, Did you add your review to the page? | 14:24 |
| dougwig | yw | 14:24 |
| dougwig | xgerman: it is linked | 14:24 |
| samuelbercovici1 | dougwig:10x! | 14:24 |
| jorgem | Does anyone want to volunteer on the tempest stuff? | 14:24 |
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| xgerman | I will stop using browser history then | 14:24 |
| blogan | jorgem: mlavalle is working on that | 14:25 |
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| blogan | but yes more people to review it | 14:25 |
| jorgem | blogan: Correct but we need eyes reviewing it I believe | 14:25 |
| xgerman | I will reach out to HP QA | 14:25 |
| dougwig | i've looked at the tempest review, but it is a WIP | 14:25 |
| samuelbercovici1 | jorgem: evish, evgeny and myslef are on this chat together via my nick. evgeny will review | 14:25 |
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| jorgem | samuelbercovici: awesome thanks | 14:25 |
| samuelbercovici1 | also avishayb is reviewing the core code | 14:26 |
| ctracey | sballe_: still working parts of it out | 14:26 |
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| sballe_ | ctracey, ok ping me when you have it in there | 14:26 |
| jorgem | #action evgenyf to review https://review.openstack.org/#/c/106089/ | 14:26 |
| ctracey | I will definitely today. The members logic is a bit odd. | 14:26 |
| jorgem | #action avishayb to continue reviewing core code | 14:27 |
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| ctracey | That's something I will likely talk to you about blogan | 14:27 |
| blogan | ctracey: okay ill be around most of the day | 14:28 |
| jorgem | Okay, I know everyone will be reviewing but I'd like to have certain community members spearhead the effort on certain tasks | 14:28 |
| samuelbercovici | #action avishayb to review https://review.openstack.org/#/c/105609 https://review.openstack.org/#/c/105331 https://review.openstack.org/#/c/105610 | 14:28 |
| jorgem | Again, I just want to make sure we increase our momentum | 14:28 |
| blogan | #action everyone deploy the new code. instructions can be found here: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Neutron/LBaaS/DeployWithDevstack | 14:28 |
| sbalukoff | blogan: +1 | 14:29 |
| xgerman | +1 | 14:29 |
| crc32 | what about https://review.openstack.org/#/c/98640. Seems like every one but the core reviewers are chiming in on it. | 14:29 |
| jorgem | Any other items related to speeding things up that people want to talk about? | 14:29 |
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| samuelbercovici | blogan: it would be better to extend the tempest tests and use CI to run end-to-end | 14:29 |
| ptoohill | +1 crc32 | 14:30 |
| xgerman | samuelbercovici +1 | 14:30 |
| jorgem | #action jorgem to ask core reviewers to review https://review.openstack.org/#/c/98640 | 14:30 |
| dougwig | crc32: i'd wager they're waiting for the debate to calm down. | 14:30 |
| dougwig | i don't tend to ping the cores until something has several +1's from the sub team, and no -1's. | 14:31 |
| blogan | samuelbercovici: for testing it out and eploying? | 14:31 |
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| crc32 | the TLS was stable for a while. I'd wager that my requests for core reviews led to more people to just blind -1 stuff. | 14:31 |
| blogan | *deploying | 14:31 |
| samuelbercovici | blogan:yes | 14:31 |
| evgenyf | jorgem: There is currently SNI issues discussions that should be resolved first | 14:31 |
| xgerman | nice segway | 14:31 |
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| dougwig | crc32: the review monster is a fickle mistress, i will agree. :) | 14:32 |
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| samuelbercovici | avishayb: asked for reviews on: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/99709/ | 14:32 |
| jorgem | #topic TLS issues | 14:32 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "TLS issues (Meeting topic: neutron lbaas)" | 14:32 | |
| jorgem | TLS: Closing on SubjectAltName and TLS: Conflict Resolution during SNI | 14:32 |
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| jorgem | I think this is a nice segue | 14:33 |
| vjay2 | are we discussing TLS spec now? | 14:33 |
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| jorgem | vjay2: Yes since we were talking about it | 14:33 |
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| jorgem | vjay2: And it's a major component that needs to be addressed | 14:34 |
| jorgem | vjay2: Would you like to start us off? | 14:34 |
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| vjay2 | Yes! | 14:34 |
| vjay2 | I had raised 2 issues | 14:34 |
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| * dougwig gets a bowl of popcorn. | 14:35 | |
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| crc32 | I'll let you guys decide the conflict resolution but I just want to make sure SSL parsing code is avalble to the API. Also a declaration that x509 parsing isn't being done at SNI Handshake time. | 14:35 |
| vjay2 | about parsing of the certificates's SAN | 14:35 |
| jorgem | #topci TLS Issues: Closing on SubjectAltName | 14:35 |
| jorgem | irc://irc.freenode.net:6667/#topci TLS Issues: Closing on SubjectAltName | 14:35 |
| jorgem | ugh nm | 14:35 |
| vjay2 | I think we should not detail about SAN in the spec unless required | 14:35 |
| vjay2 | there could be backends like NetScaler which might have used SAN | 14:36 |
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| vjay2 | *sorry not used SAN | 14:36 |
| sbalukoff | I disagree, since every major browser on the market uses SAN. :P | 14:36 |
| sbalukoff | And it's technically part of the TLS RFC. | 14:37 |
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| johnsom | SAN is common | 14:37 |
| vjay2 | So what is the expecation from the backend if it does not implement NetScaler | 14:37 |
| vjay2 | s/Netscaler/SAN | 14:37 |
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| dougwig | if neutron fetches a cert/key, and parses out certain info, and then hands all of that to a driver, the driver is free to throw away what it isn't interested in/can't handle, and do its own thing, isn't it? | 14:37 |
| sbalukoff | dougwig: +1 | 14:38 |
| evgenyf | dougwig: +! | 14:38 |
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| vjay2 | i agree with dougwig | 14:38 |
| sbalukoff | Then where is our disagreement? | 14:38 |
| vjay2 | I would exactly want that, period | 14:38 |
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| jorgem | Okay so we have consensus it looks like. Who wants to update the bp? | 14:39 |
| crc32 | dougwig+ I agree but you vjay2 are declaring that SAN should not be mentioned in the spec | 14:39 |
| dougwig | i think that is what the spec is defining, and if you want to parse out hostname on your own and not the way neutron is specifying, that's entirely possible. | 14:39 |
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| xgerman | I disagree with dougwig "own thing" scares me that things would work differently with each driver and not produce standatdized results | 14:39 |
| vjay2 | Now the spec like SAN seems mandatory | 14:39 |
| jorgem | xgerman: Isn't that why you have different drivers to begin with? | 14:39 |
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| blogan | xgerman: isn't that going to happen with every driver? | 14:40 |
| vjay2 | there should be an option for the driver to thow error if it could not support it | 14:40 |
| jorgem | xgerman: Keyword being different? | 14:40 |
| evgenyf | vjay: I can mention this point explicitlty in RST. Driver does not have to use SAn that is passed from API leyer | 14:40 |
| crc32 | vjay2: Thats what sbuukoff suggested but the Mail thread went in differen't directions. | 14:40 |
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| sbalukoff | The ability for the driver to reject certain configurations otherwise valid is going to become more and more important as we add features... | 14:40 |
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| dougwig | xgerman: well, step back, and the feature being deliver is SNI. it is limiting and slows things down if every driver must implement that exactly the same way with exactly the same features. i mean, we all "know" what SNI means, and you're free to not use a vendor that purposely implemented something that doesn't even come close. | 14:41 |
| xgerman | on the other hand to play ball they also need to support a minimum set of features | 14:41 |
| vjay2 | thanks evgenyf | 14:41 |
| vjay2 | sbalukoff: +1 | 14:41 |
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| xgerman | dougwig, thanks for the clarification | 14:41 |
| crc32 | fine. I sucks that every vender behaves differenty with SNI so I guess we have to accept this is driver specific. | 14:42 |
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| crc32 | err it. | 14:42 |
| xgerman | crc32 wisj w ecould apply some normative pressure... | 14:42 |
| crc32 | bp=https://review.openstack.org/#/c/106089/ | 14:42 |
| jorgem | Okay, so what updates do we need to make to the spec? | 14:43 |
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| dougwig | i'm not advocating that every vendor be different. i'm advocating to not pull everything down to the lowest common denominator every time. | 14:43 |
| crc32 | wrong one. bp=https://review.openstack.org/#/c/98640/ | 14:43 |
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| sbalukoff | It sounds like we'll need to add verbage to the spec that says a driver can choose not to use SAN info in order to get vjay2's approval. | 14:44 |
| evgenyf | I will do that | 14:44 |
| crc32 | dougwig: Agreed. | 14:44 |
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| sbalukoff | dougwig: +1 | 14:44 |
| vjay2 | I am fine with that | 14:44 |
| jorgem | #action evgenyf to add verbage to the spec that says a driver can choose not to use SAN info in order to get vjay2's approval. (https://review.http://openstack.org/#/c/98640/) | 14:45 |
| samuelbercovici | sbalukoff: if the x509 has SAN info, than the backend should throw an unsupported exception | 14:45 |
| jorgem | Awesome. Now let's address conflict resolution during SNI. What is the main issue here? | 14:45 |
| samuelbercovici | vjay2: is that ok? | 14:45 |
| sbalukoff | Also, for conflict resolution: Any problems with saying SNI-related certs have an order, and that individual drivers should do whatever they think is necessary to resolve conflicting hostnames? (Given that conflicting hostnames are a rarity?) | 14:46 |
| xgerman | + 1 | 14:46 |
| vjay2 | yes, SAN in combination with SNI. I dont think SAN is valid for non SNI cases | 14:46 |
| samuelbercovici | sbalukoff: +1 | 14:46 |
| jorgem | #topic TLS Conflict Resolution during SNI | 14:46 |
| crc32 | samuelbercovici: +1 | 14:46 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "TLS Conflict Resolution during SNI (Meeting topic: neutron lbaas)" | 14:46 | |
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| dougwig | sbalukoff: +1 | 14:47 |
| sbalukoff | vjay2: Any problem with that? | 14:47 |
| evgenyf | sbalukoff: +1 . RST is already stating that | 14:47 |
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| samuelbercovici | so the correct behaviour of a backend is that if he can't match the expected behavior it should throw an unsupported exception | 14:47 |
| sbalukoff | samuelbercovici: +1 | 14:47 |
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| dougwig | samuelbercovici: +1, that's what i've been doing, anyway. | 14:48 |
| vjay2 | Is order a mandatory to be specified while binding certs for SNI? | 14:48 |
| crc32 | samuelbercovici +1 | 14:48 |
| xgerman | +1 though the community had trouble with that before | 14:48 |
| crc32 | vjay2: No the spec already mentioned that. | 14:48 |
| vjay2 | mandatory == mandatory attribute | 14:48 |
| samuelbercovici | the expected behavior in this case is that if SAN exists in the certificate, it should be used. most certificates will not include SAN in them | 14:48 |
| sbalukoff | vjay2: Yes. And in fact, order only has relevance when there's a hostname conflict, which should be a rare situation in any case. | 14:48 |
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| xgerman | well, the UI might be able to point that out anyway | 14:49 |
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| crc32 | vjay2: The attribute was mandetory but the back end is free to ignore it. Much like SAN is now agreed to be. | 14:49 |
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| sbalukoff | crc32: +1 | 14:49 |
| xgerman | well, ignore or throw an exception -- not mix the two | 14:49 |
| samuelbercovici | crc32: is SAN mandatory? I thooght it can be empty or non-existant | 14:49 |
| vjay2 | crc32: That is what I dont like. someone could specify order if required | 14:49 |
| vjay2 | Also, is *.finance.com and abc.finance.com considered conflicting? | 14:50 |
| crc32 | the attr is mandetory though. Meaning all requests would trigger an Error. | 14:50 |
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| crc32 | vjay2: No. abe.finance.com would take priority like PKIX says it should | 14:50 |
| sbalukoff | vjay2: Yes those would be conflicting names. And yes order should be a mandatory attribute. | 14:50 |
| sbalukoff | Heh! | 14:51 |
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| dougwig | conflict about whether there is conflict. meta. | 14:51 |
| * TrevorV_ is metatastic | 14:51 | |
| vjay2 | NetScaler will be able to auto resolve this situation and choose abc.finance.com when the request comes for abc.finance.com | 14:51 |
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| sbalukoff | samuelbercovici: In the Radware implementation, if *.finance.com comes before abc.finance.com, does *.finance.com win in this case? | 14:52 |
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| sbalukoff | And by "comes before" I mean "is ordered before" | 14:52 |
| johnsom | It should be most specific first | 14:52 |
| xgerman | +1 | 14:53 |
| sbalukoff | johnsom: I agree. But I don't know whether Radware does. :) | 14:53 |
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| crc32_ | so what do we follow ordering or http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc2818? | 14:54 |
| xgerman | well, can't we order in the api/driver so that most speciifc is first? | 14:54 |
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| johnsom | rfc2818+ | 14:54 |
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| sbalukoff | xgerman: Sure, but the whole reason we went with order was because it's necessary for Radware's implementation, from what I recall. | 14:55 |
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| crc32_ | we could but the RFC2818 kinda mentions it's braindamage to use *.abc.com if www.abc.com is also specified. | 14:55 |
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| blogan | it seems many people are losing connection | 14:56 |
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| crc32_ | I'm fine either way. | 14:56 |
| samuelbercovici | sbalukoff: don't remeber by heart..the full logic was in ML. | 14:56 |
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| crc32_ | I don't want to argue anymore. | 14:56 |
| sbalukoff | I seem to recall that was a hard requirement. | 14:56 |
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| xgerman | +1 | 14:56 |
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| blogan | jorgem: got disconneted and can't get back in | 14:56 |
| vjay2 | the problem is lets say a user binds a cert with *.finance.com earlier than abc.finance.com then the behaviour will be different between NetScaler and the backend which honours order | 14:56 |
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| sbalukoff | Yeah, I just want to get this done. | 14:56 |
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| vjay2 | sbalukoff: me too | 14:57 |
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| xgerman | vijay2, dougwig said that we can buy whatever LB we think is best for our use case | 14:57 |
| sbalukoff | So how about this, then: We say the order can be used as a "hint" for name conflict resolution, but it's ultimately up to the driver to decide how to resolve the conflict. | 14:57 |
| jorgem1 | I'm back | 14:57 |
| sbalukoff | Order should be a mandatory attribute for those drivers that need it, but again, those that don't can ignore it. | 14:57 |
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| vjay2 | sbalukoff: i am ok with that | 14:58 |
| sbalukoff | Name conflicts are anticipated to be a rare edge case anyway. | 14:58 |
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| blogan | vijay2: does this need to be mentioned int he spec then? | 14:58 |
| vjay2 | if name conflicts are rare | 14:58 |
| sbalukoff | So yes, different drivers might have slightly different behavior when there are name conflicts. | 14:58 |
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| vjay2 | does it need to be in the spec | 14:58 |
| xgerman | svalukoff +1 | 14:58 |
| sbalukoff | So be it: I don't think we can do better than that, given vendor implementations are going to vary too much here. | 14:58 |
| sbalukoff | vjay2: Yes. So that we have this decision documented. | 14:59 |
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| xgerman | yep, and I like things int nhe spec so we are explicit | 14:59 |
| jorgem1 | What is the decision? | 14:59 |
| vjay2 | I am fine with that | 14:59 |
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| xgerman | drivers can deal with name conflicts however they choosew | 14:59 |
| xgerman | order is a hint to help them | 14:59 |
| sbalukoff | jorgem: Decision is that order is a mandatory attribute. Order is a hint for drivers to use for conflict resolution when hostnames conflict. | 14:59 |
| dougwig | jorgem: "sbalukoff> So how about this, then: We say the order can be used as a "hint" for name conflict resolution, but it's ultimately up to the driver to decide how to resolve the conflict." | 15:00 |
| jorgem1 | Awesome. I think we are out of time folks. | 15:00 |
| dougwig | o/ | 15:00 |
| sbalukoff | Also, drivers are free to use their own logic for conflict resolution and don't have to use order. | 15:00 |
| samuelbercovici | guys, need to evacyuate as we have a siren | 15:00 |
| samuelbercovici | bye | 15:00 |
| rm_work | o/ | 15:00 |
| jorgem1 | Good discussions today. | 15:00 |
| xgerman | bye | 15:00 |
| dougwig | samuelbercovici: shit, be safe | 15:00 |
| crc32_ | sbalukoff: Should order be an optional attr then? | 15:00 |
| sbalukoff | Thanks! | 15:00 |
| sbalukoff | Bye! | 15:00 |
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| jorgem1 | #endmeeting | 15:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 15:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Thu Jul 17 15:00:43 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 15:00 |
| sballe_ | bye | 15:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_lbaas/2014/neutron_lbaas.2014-07-17-14.00.html | 15:00 |
| sbalukoff | crc32: No. | 15:00 |
| crc32_ | never mind | 15:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_lbaas/2014/neutron_lbaas.2014-07-17-14.00.txt | 15:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_lbaas/2014/neutron_lbaas.2014-07-17-14.00.log.html | 15:00 |
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| blogan | goodbye | 15:00 |
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| eglynn | #startmeeting ceilometer | 15:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Thu Jul 17 15:01:00 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is eglynn. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 15:01 |
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| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 15:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: ceilometer)" | 15:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'ceilometer' | 15:01 |
| eglynn | hey y'all! | 15:01 |
| DinaBelova | o/ | 15:01 |
| idegtiarov | o/ | 15:01 |
| nealph | o/ | 15:01 |
| ildikov | o/ | 15:01 |
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| eglynn | #topic Juno-2 status | 15:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Juno-2 status (Meeting topic: ceilometer)" | 15:01 | |
| nsaje | o/ | 15:01 |
| llu-laptop | o/ | 15:01 |
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| eglynn | #link https://launchpad.net/ceilometer/+milestone/juno-2 | 15:01 |
| eglynn | let's go thru' the BPs and get a feel for what's gonna land | 15:02 |
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| eglynn | eeek! | 15:02 |
| DinaBelova | eglynn, https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ceilometer/+spec/mongodb-events-feature has been merged already :) | 15:02 |
| eglynn | netsplit :( | 15:02 |
| DinaBelova | :d | 15:02 |
| cdent | wheeeeeeeeeeeee | 15:02 |
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| llu-laptop | what's going on? | 15:03 |
| eglynn | DinaBelova: updated | 15:03 |
| DinaBelova | cool | 15:03 |
| eglynn | llu-laptop: netslpit | 15:03 |
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| nsaje | tsk, net split again | 15:03 |
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| eglynn | nsaje: arithmetic transformers looking good? | 15:03 |
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| eglynn | cdent: ironic notifications looking good? | 15:03 |
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| cdent | yup, just want a verify from you and potentially a poke from lucas (or his peers) to make sure the metadata is payload is happy | 15:04 |
| cdent | (I added some more tests) | 15:04 |
| eglynn | cdent: great :) | 15:04 |
| eglynn | nsaje: around? | 15:04 |
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| nsaje | eglynn: looking good | 15:05 |
| eglynn | nsaje: cool, thanks :) | 15:05 |
| eglynn | sileht: around? | 15:05 |
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| eglynn | cdent: grenade/javelin, what's the thought on that? | 15:06 |
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| cdent | jogo is not excited: until javelin is operating in grenade he doesn't see much point adding features on it (he reiterated that on review today) | 15:06 |
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| eglynn | cdent: so, prolly bump to juno-3 would be sensible? | 15:07 |
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| cdent | however Sean is more excited: he's pretty ready to get javelin running and is waiting for I'm not sure what for a patchset that does the intergration to be passed | 15:07 |
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| jogo | cdent: working on getting it in grenade as we speak. hoping to get it working this week | 15:07 |
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| eglynn | cdent, jogo: OK, I'll hold off bumping in that case | 15:07 |
| cdent | speak of the devil! | 15:07 |
| eglynn | :) | 15:07 |
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| eglynn | pradk: around? | 15:08 |
| jogo | I am excited for new javelin features once the basics are working | 15:08 |
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| pradk | eglynn, hello | 15:08 |
| eglynn | jogo: cool, and EoW is realistic? | 15:08 |
| cdent | jogo have you seen the discussion eglynn and I are having around how to manage semantics in the javelin tests? | 15:08 |
| jogo | eglynn: thats the goal, will know more in a few hours | 15:08 |
| eglynn | jogo: cool | 15:08 |
| eglynn | pradk: confident on FWaaS/VPNaaS for juno-2? | 15:08 |
| jogo | cdent: right now I just want it to work, so no | 15:09 |
| cdent | it's kind of germane to that actually: our disagreement is because 'create' doesn't fully work (depending on your definition of "work") | 15:09 |
| pradk | eglynn, so far yes.. i should at least be able to get it in partially.. there are a couple of deps from neutron side which we might have to wait on for other metrics. Other than that, so far on track | 15:10 |
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| eglynn | cdent, jogo: so the key question is whether we chould run javelin/create+check on the old version, or just javelin/create and keep check to post-upgrade? | 15:10 |
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| cdent | I think it's agreed that is should be just create upgrade check | 15:11 |
| eglynn | pradk: cool, sounds like it'll be enough to declare vistory for the milestone | 15:11 |
| cdent | but until create is "correct" that's not reliable | 15:11 |
| eglynn | cdent: cool | 15:11 |
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| pradk | yea hopefully, i can get the resource discovery tests working soon.. getting close | 15:12 |
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| DinaBelova | eglynn, as for the tempest testing (for j2) - lots of tests are ready to be merged, but due to the QA sprint folks are busy this week.... | 15:12 |
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| eglynn | llu-laptop: SNMP-improvement isn't on the list because the spec hasn't landed | 15:12 |
| eglynn | https://review.openstack.org/104113 | 15:13 |
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| DinaBelova | eglynn, vrovachev and I will ping all QA folks asap.. | 15:13 |
| eglynn | DinaBelova: great, thanks! | 15:13 |
| DinaBelova | eglynn - I still hope to see and least all notifications tests merged in j2 | 15:13 |
| DinaBelova | at least* | 15:13 |
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| eglynn | DinaBelova: did Vadim make any headway with the intermittent nova notification test timeout, do you know? | 15:14 |
| llu-laptop | llu-laptop: yes i'm still doing the coding, but it's risky for j2. My hope is to get the code ready before j2, and get it merged early j3 | 15:14 |
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| DinaBelova | eglynn, that's no reproducible for him :( | 15:15 |
| llu-laptop | sorry, last msg should be directed to eglynn :( | 15:15 |
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| eglynn | llu-laptop: having patches up up by j2 would be great, thanks for the update | 15:15 |
| DinaBelova | eglynn`- that's really strange thing - he tried several times to catch it - no results yet :( | 15:15 |
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| ildikov | eglynn: as for the polling testing in tempest, some mails already landed on the dev list trying to solve the issues there | 15:15 |
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| eglynn | DinaBelova: yeah, it's happening pretty regularly in the gate according to logstash | 15:16 |
| ildikov | eglynn: hopefully we will get some response after the qa sprint | 15:16 |
| eglynn | ildikov: what's the $subject? | 15:16 |
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| DinaBelova | ildikov, eglynn - yep, as QA folks have meetup - no way they will answer quicker... | 15:16 |
| DinaBelova | eglynn - [openstack-dev] [qa] Test Ceilometer polling in tempest | 15:17 |
| eglynn | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2014-July/040434.html | 15:17 |
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| ildikov | eglynn: yeap, that's it :) | 15:17 |
| DinaBelova | eglynn, although polling tests were not supposed to be part of j2 (too much work even with basic ones) | 15:17 |
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| eglynn | ildikov, DinaBelova: did you discuss with on IRC also with the qa folks? | 15:17 |
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| DinaBelova | eglynn, they went to the sprint :) | 15:18 |
| ildikov | eglynn: we couldn't reach them | 15:18 |
| eglynn | a-ha, got it | 15:18 |
| DinaBelova | they are lost for this week :) | 15:18 |
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| ildikov | eglynn: that is why we started with the mail as async version | 15:18 |
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| DinaBelova | Sean travelled to Germany on Friday | 15:18 |
| eglynn | ildikov, DinaBelova: fair enough | 15:18 |
| DinaBelova | so even previous week was a little bit lost | 15:18 |
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| eglynn | so other stuff for juno-2 ... | 15:19 |
| eglynn | this bug would be great to see fixed https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1336193 | 15:19 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1336193 in pecan "Timeout test_coordination_assign gate error" [Undecided,Confirmed] | 15:19 |
| eglynn | nsaje: has a potential fix in the olso-messaging fake driver | 15:19 |
| eglynn | we were waiting on a oslo-messaging 1.3.1 release to get our hands on that | 15:20 |
| tnurlygayanov | hi there, probably someone can help me - I can't upload image to Glance and see the following error in Glance logs: http://paste.openstack.org/show/86954/ - how to fix it? | 15:20 |
| eglynn | however that's now looking like it may not happen | 15:20 |
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| eglynn | tnurlygayanov: redirect to #openstack-glance | 15:20 |
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| DinaBelova | tnurlygayanov, wrong chat :) | 15:21 |
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| eglynn | instead we may have to just straight to the 1.4 series ... i.e. >=1.4.0.0a3 | 15:21 |
| eglynn | possible as part of an overall dependency upgrade a la https://review.openstack.org/103029 | 15:22 |
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| eglynn | anyone see anything problematic in that? | 15:22 |
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| DinaBelova | eglynn, no from my side | 15:23 |
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| DinaBelova | eglynn - just silent nice update :) | 15:23 |
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| eglynn | ok anything else relevant to juno-2? | 15:24 |
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| eglynn | ildikov: how is the admin guide looking? | 15:24 |
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| ildikov | eglynn: kind of on track :) | 15:25 |
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| ildikov | eglynn: but I do not think that the whole story will fit in j-2 | 15:25 |
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| eglynn | ildikov: ok, shout if you need extra eyes and/or content contributions | 15:25 |
| ildikov | eglynn: sure, will do | 15:26 |
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| nsaje | there's some bugfixes for python-ceilometerclient in gerrit that need core reviews (seems only llu-laptop looks at that repo these days :-) ) | 15:26 |
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| nsaje | I guess it'd be good if they landed for juno-2? | 15:26 |
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| eglynn | nsaje: yeah we'd need to cut a new python-ceiloclient release | 15:26 |
| eglynn | nsaje: the client releases are decoupled from the main release cycle | 15:27 |
| nsaje | eglynn: oh right, I remember that now | 15:27 |
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| eglynn | just on juno-2 admin in general ... | 15:28 |
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| eglynn | I need to take half-days off next week for family reasons | 15:28 |
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| eglynn | but will be contactable | 15:28 |
| eglynn | (so just shout on email re. anything relevant to the milestone) | 15:28 |
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| eglynn | ... also ttx will not be doing the release this time | 15:29 |
| eglynn | (it'll be russellb instead pushing the buttons) | 15:29 |
| eglynn | ok shall we move on? | 15:29 |
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| russellb | o/ | 15:29 |
| ttx | some praying is also involved | 15:30 |
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| eglynn | ttx: LOL :) | 15:30 |
| russellb | ttx has scripted and documented the process well :) | 15:30 |
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| nsaje | haha :) | 15:30 |
| eglynn | #topic gnocchi update | 15:30 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "gnocchi update (Meeting topic: ceilometer)" | 15:30 | |
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| * eglynn channels jd__ | 15:31 | |
| DinaBelova | hehe :) | 15:31 |
| eglynn | so work is progressing on the aggregation/truncation fixes discussed at midcycle | 15:31 |
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| DinaBelova | fyi, /me still working on opentsdb driver draft - hope to post it tomorrow (at least, its parts) :) | 15:31 |
| eglynn | this patch is up for review https://review.openstack.org/105185 | 15:31 |
| eglynn | DinaBelova: cool! ... by draft, do you mean a WIP/strawman patch? | 15:32 |
| DinaBelova | eglynn, no, I mean normal change - but I think I'll need to add smth there | 15:32 |
| DinaBelova | I'm not sure | 15:32 |
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| eglynn | DinaBelova: cool enough | 15:33 |
| DinaBelova | some of my efforts there might require some opensdb patching :) | 15:33 |
| eglynn | a-ha, you're finding opentsdb issues? ... nice | 15:33 |
| DinaBelova | eglynn, like retention thing - it's not fully implemented there via rest api - just through hbase directly | 15:33 |
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| DinaBelova | but as we use happybase+thrift agent to work with it from python we can't set ttl there :) | 15:34 |
| DinaBelova | as opentsbd is java one - I may fix it there :) | 15:34 |
| DinaBelova | and it'll work without any issues :) | 15:34 |
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| eglynn | a-ha, k | 15:34 |
| eglynn | in other gnocchi news ... | 15:34 |
| eglynn | ildikov's ceilo/gnocchi dispatcher spec landed | 15:35 |
| eglynn | https://github.com/openstack/ceilometer-specs/blob/master/specs/juno/dispatcher-for-gnocchi-integration.rst | 15:35 |
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| ildikov | \o/ :) | 15:35 |
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| DinaBelova | just a link to the gnocchi+opentsdb ML: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/opentsdb/9O57MfpRXI0 | 15:35 |
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| ildikov | trying to start working on it now, j-2 is not a realistical target, aiming for early j-3 | 15:36 |
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| DinaBelova | ildikov, hehe :) | 15:36 |
| eglynn | ildikov: cool | 15:36 |
| eglynn | k, move on from gnocchi? | 15:36 |
| DinaBelova | eglynn, +1 | 15:37 |
| eglynn | #topic trusty switchover in the gate | 15:37 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "trusty switchover in the gate (Meeting topic: ceilometer)" | 15:37 | |
| eglynn | so as you've probably noticed, clarkb has enabled trusty nodes in the gate | 15:37 |
| eglynn | so finally the ceilo py27 is actually running the mongodb scenario tests! :) | 15:37 |
| eglynn | \o/ | 15:37 |
| ildikov | \o/ | 15:38 |
| eglynn | against mongodb version 2.4.9 IIRC | 15:38 |
| llu-laptop | yeah~ | 15:38 |
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| DinaBelova | eglynn, :) | 15:38 |
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| eglynn | so the question is, are we ready to enable a tempest variant running against mongo? | 15:38 |
| nsaje | great! | 15:38 |
| eglynn | seeing as running against sql-a was always just a workaround for mongodb of the correct version not being available on precise | 15:39 |
| DinaBelova | eglynn, actually we need to try - because I see no serious issues here to be met | 15:39 |
| eglynn | DinaBelova: cool | 15:39 |
| DinaBelova | eglynn, only if it'll be found in the process of trying :) | 15:39 |
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| eglynn | does anyone feel like proposing such a change to infra? | 15:39 |
| DinaBelova | eglynn, me or Vadim may do that :) | 15:40 |
| cdent | Is the idea to run both sql-a and mongo, or just one? | 15:40 |
| eglynn | DinaBelova: excellent! :) | 15:40 |
| eglynn | cdent: both probably | 15:40 |
| cdent | good | 15:40 |
| DinaBelova | cdent, I guess for the first time both | 15:40 |
| DinaBelova | eglynn, oh | 15:40 |
| DinaBelova | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/96316/ | 15:40 |
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| DinaBelova | eglynn - it was a while ago, I need to remember that change | 15:41 |
| DinaBelova | ;d | 15:41 |
| eglynn | DinaBelova: yeah f20 was run into issues with skew in the nodepool allocation algorithm | 15:41 |
| DinaBelova | a-ha | 15:41 |
| DinaBelova | yes, exactly | 15:41 |
| DinaBelova | ok, good | 15:41 |
| eglynn | DinaBelova: (effectively discriminates against less-used distros) | 15:41 |
| DinaBelova | :D | 15:42 |
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| eglynn | though ianw had a priority-aging patch up that addressed that | 15:42 |
| eglynn | not sure if it actually landed in the end or was abandoned | 15:42 |
| eglynn | landed :) | 15:43 |
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| eglynn | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/101110/ | 15:43 |
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| DinaBelova | eglynn, a-ha, /me looking | 15:44 |
| eglynn | even so, resistence might be reduced for a tempest-mongodb variant running on trusty as opposed to f20 | 15:44 |
| DinaBelova | eglynn, yes, for sure | 15:44 |
| eglynn | because of the duration of support question with fedora | 15:44 |
| DinaBelova | I just found that old change in my reviews | 15:44 |
| DinaBelova | and tried to get what it was about :D | 15:45 |
| eglynn | the qa folks want >=18 months support for any distros they gate on | 15:45 |
| DinaBelova | eglynn, yep, I remember your ML thread about that | 15:45 |
| eglynn | DinaBelova: yeap, so I think the path would be smoother if the new tempest variant was proposed for trusty | 15:45 |
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| eglynn | k, move on? | 15:46 |
| DinaBelova | eglynn, agreed, ok, /action for me | 15:46 |
| DinaBelova | +! | 15:46 |
| DinaBelova | +1 | 15:46 |
| eglynn | #action DinaBelova propose tempest-mongodb variant on trusty | 15:46 |
| DinaBelova | :) | 15:46 |
| eglynn | #topic opens discussion | 15:46 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "opens discussion (Meeting topic: ceilometer)" | 15:46 | |
| llu-laptop | guys, SAD is 20th, right? It seems that we still have quite specs to review. | 15:46 |
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| llu-laptop | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:open+project:openstack/ceilometer-specs,n,z | 15:47 |
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| eglynn | llu-laptop: good point | 15:47 |
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| eglynn | llu-laptop: I think we'll have to treat that freeze as more a "slush" | 15:47 |
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| eglynn | but yes, please do review and let's get any specs that are close over the line if possible | 15:48 |
| eglynn | e.g. the llu-laptop's SNMP spec just needs a +1 | 15:48 |
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| cdent | some small number of those specs are hung up on proposers on holiday | 15:50 |
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| eglynn | cdent: good point | 15:50 |
| eglynn | fabiog flagged that at mid-cycle | 15:50 |
| eglynn | he'll be back next week IIRC | 15:50 |
| nealph | indeed | 15:51 |
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| eglynn | so I indicated to fabiog that we'll be somewhat flexible with the spec acceptance deadline because of that | 15:52 |
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| eglynn | who else lost money on kilo? ;) | 15:53 |
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| cdent | was that the decision? | 15:53 |
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| cdent | where did it happen? | 15:53 |
| eglynn | yeap | 15:53 |
| * eglynn bet the farm on kepler | 15:53 | |
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| cdent | kilo is booooooooooooring | 15:53 |
| eglynn | cdent: on the openstack (non dev) ML | 15:53 |
| cdent | ah, i'm less frequent on that one | 15:54 |
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| nealph | cdent:understandable given the sheer volume. :) | 15:54 |
| eglynn | cdent: http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack/2014-July/008447.html | 15:54 |
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| cdent | meh | 15:55 |
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| DinaBelova | eglynn, I was voting for Kyoto :) | 15:55 |
| eglynn | that came in second | 15:55 |
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| eglynn | ... there were worse options I guess | 15:55 |
| llu-laptop | looks like no more follow the city/steet name convention | 15:55 |
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| nealph | llu-laptop:+1 :( | 15:56 |
| llu-laptop | is kyoto a japan city? | 15:56 |
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| eglynn | llu-laptop: yeah, it all went to hell when we allowed grizzly ;) | 15:56 |
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| DinaBelova | eglynn, :D | 15:56 |
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| eglynn | llu-laptop: yeah, but there was a tenuous connection to Paris also I think | 15:56 |
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| eglynn | ... {Rue|Place|Avenue|Metro} de Kyoto ;) | 15:57 |
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| eglynn | ok, we're up against the shot clock as usual | 15:57 |
| eglynn | anyone got anything else they want to raise up before we close? | 15:58 |
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| DinaBelova | no, not from me | 15:58 |
| eglynn | k, let's call it a wrap | 15:58 |
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| eglynn | thanks for the productive meeting! | 15:58 |
| DinaBelova | thanks! | 15:59 |
| eglynn | #endmeeting | 15:59 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 15:59 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Thu Jul 17 15:59:07 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 15:59 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/ceilometer/2014/ceilometer.2014-07-17-15.01.html | 15:59 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/ceilometer/2014/ceilometer.2014-07-17-15.01.txt | 15:59 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/ceilometer/2014/ceilometer.2014-07-17-15.01.log.html | 15:59 |
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| mriedem | woot | 21:00 |
| mikal | Hello | 21:00 |
| mikal | Nova meeting? | 21:00 |
| sean-k-mooney | hi | 21:00 |
| mriedem | go | 21:00 |
| devananda | o/ | 21:00 |
| cyeoh | hi | 21:00 |
| tjones | hi | 21:00 |
| pczesno | hi | 21:00 |
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| leifz | start the clock. | 21:00 |
| melwitt | o/ | 21:00 |
| angdraug | \o | 21:01 |
| n0ano | o/ | 21:01 |
| sajeesh | hi | 21:01 |
| mikal | pinging -- tjones cburgess jgrimm adrian_otto mzoeller funzo | 21:01 |
| alex_xu | hi | 21:01 |
| tinoue | hi | 21:01 |
| leifz | are we logging? | 21:01 |
| mikal | #startmeeting nova | 21:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Thu Jul 17 21:01:23 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is mikal. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 21:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 21:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: nova)" | 21:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'nova' | 21:01 |
| dansmith | o/ | 21:01 |
| thingee | o/ | 21:01 |
| mriedem | hi | 21:01 |
| leifz | o/ | 21:01 |
| mikal | Heya | 21:01 |
| alaski | hi | 21:01 |
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| mikal | So, let's get this show started | 21:01 |
| mikal | #topic Juno-2 | 21:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Juno-2 (Meeting topic: nova)" | 21:01 | |
| russellb | o/ | 21:01 |
| mikal | #info j-2 is 24th July | 21:02 |
| jaypipes | o/ | 21:02 |
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| mikal | Which is kind of soon | 21:02 |
| hemna | howdy | 21:02 |
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| mtanino | o/ | 21:02 |
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| mikal | So, there's a few j-2 things we should quickly cover | 21:02 |
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| mikal | #info Reviewers, please focus on j-2 targeted things if possible | 21:02 |
| * russellb is ttx for juno-2 next week, fyi | 21:02 | |
| mikal | Yes, and a love ttx you are too | 21:02 |
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| russellb | heh <3 | 21:03 |
| mikal | The timeline for the next release is at: | 21:03 |
| mikal | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2014-June/038475.html | 21:03 |
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| mikal | We also need to talk about specs who have requested a spec freeze exception | 21:03 |
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| hemna | :) | 21:03 |
| * mikal waits for the page to load | 21:03 | |
| dansmith | damned NBN | 21:03 |
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| mikal | dansmith: don't go there | 21:04 |
| dansmith | I don't even know if you're on the NBN or waiting for it | 21:04 |
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| mikal | No, 2mbit DSL for me | 21:04 |
| mikal | But anyways... | 21:04 |
| mikal | So, we had a list of priority specs based on the summit back in the day | 21:04 |
| mikal | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/nova-juno-spec-priorities | 21:04 |
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| mikal | We should use that as a guide for spec freeze exceptions | 21:04 |
| mikal | But nova-drivers can work through that in the spec repo | 21:05 |
| dims | o/ | 21:05 |
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| mikal | Its the first time we've done specs, so I imagine the spec freeze process will involve a little discussion about the process as well as the specs themselves | 21:05 |
| hemna | multi-attach isn't in that list unfortunately | 21:05 |
| russellb | shall we cover requests now? | 21:05 |
| russellb | the -2 comment on specs said we would take requests in the meeting | 21:05 |
| mikal | So, I'm only aware of two | 21:05 |
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| mikal | But more might have come up overnight | 21:06 |
| mikal | I just woke up | 21:06 |
| mikal | russellb: sure, go for it | 21:06 |
| russellb | mikal: see "Juno Spec Freeze" section of that etherpad | 21:06 |
| russellb | lots listed as potential, some with sponsors | 21:06 |
| russellb | earlier today here, i was proposing that we require core review sponsors to get something approved | 21:06 |
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| mikal | Ugh, that's quite a list | 21:06 |
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| russellb | so, if something has -core that cares enough to promise review effort on it, that should be strongly considered for an exception | 21:06 |
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| hemna | I was hoping to add multi-attach to the list if possible ? | 21:07 |
| russellb | unless we think it's just way too disruptive to merge this late no matter what | 21:07 |
| russellb | that's how i'd think about it, i think | 21:07 |
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| mikal | russellb: I think that's wise. Two cores as sponsors would be even better because then we can point the finger at them for reviews | 21:07 |
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| russellb | mikal: indeed | 21:08 |
| mikal | hemna: have you sent an email to openstack-dev requesting one? | 21:08 |
| russellb | so, require at least 2 sponsors, and no major vetos saying it's too disruptive to do late in the cycle? | 21:08 |
| russellb | as the criteria? | 21:08 |
| mikal | hemna: I think we should ask people to make a (brief) case on the mailng list, and then we can take it from there | 21:08 |
| hemna | mikal, not currently. I can do that though. | 21:08 |
| russellb | and if so, maybe do a pass on the ones that have at least 2 already listed now | 21:08 |
| mikal | russellb: that sounds reasonable to me | 21:08 |
| russellb | cool | 21:08 |
| mikal | hemna: please do, ASAP please | 21:08 |
| hemna | will do | 21:08 |
| russellb | so, first one with at least 2 sponsors is | 21:08 |
| russellb | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/95025/9/specs/juno/deprecate-baremetal-driver.rst | 21:08 |
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| mikal | I am sure we'll tweak the plan as we learn how to make it work, but that's a good start | 21:09 |
| russellb | john, dansmith, and alaski on that one | 21:09 |
| mtanino | mikal: I would like to have a exception too | 21:09 |
| mikal | mtanino: email to openstack-dev please? | 21:09 |
| russellb | thoughts on deprecate-baremetal-driver? | 21:09 |
| mtanino | mikal: not yet. So I will send a mail too. | 21:09 |
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| mikal | We need ironic first for that one | 21:09 |
| russellb | actually | 21:09 |
| russellb | devananda is going to try to join us to talk about that | 21:09 |
| devananda | mikal: so the conversation earlier today was that some folks dont want to acept ironic w/o the deprecation | 21:09 |
| dansmith | yeah, no.. I think this should have been part of the ironic spec, | 21:09 |
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| devananda | hi! | 21:10 |
| russellb | devananda: o/ | 21:10 |
| dansmith | so I think it needs to be tied to the other one | 21:10 |
| russellb | agree with dansmith | 21:10 |
| dansmith | but, I also think that it's in reasonable shape so I'm not too worried | 21:10 |
| mikal | devananda: I thought deprecation was part of the plan from the summit, is that not your recollection? | 21:10 |
| russellb | i think being able to deprecate baremetal needs to be tied to merging the ironic driver | 21:10 |
| dansmith | just don't want to drop it because it's after the deadline | 21:10 |
| alaski | agreed | 21:10 |
| russellb | i haven't reviewed the spec, but i view it as ironic drive + this, or neither | 21:10 |
| devananda | mikal: yes, both important, and both should happen | 21:10 |
| mikal | devananda: I also believe that upgrade is progressed, but I haven't heard much about it? | 21:11 |
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| devananda | there is code proposed for the upgrade | 21:11 |
| devananda | but not yet any testing of it | 21:11 |
| mikal | In your repo or outs? | 21:11 |
| mikal | ours even | 21:11 |
| devananda | yours | 21:11 |
| mikal | Cool | 21:11 |
| devananda | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/101920/ and https://review.openstack.org/#/c/102563/ | 21:11 |
| mikal | I think this is complicated enough that perhaps we should ask for an email describing its status | 21:11 |
| russellb | anyone *not* think this should get an exception? | 21:11 |
| mikal | What's implemented, where its proposed, next steps, etc etc | 21:11 |
| russellb | mikal: want to defer approvals to ML? | 21:12 |
| russellb | or try to sort some now? | 21:12 |
| mikal | russellb: this is a big list to get through | 21:12 |
| russellb | well, was thinking we'd just start with ones that have sponsors listed already | 21:12 |
| devananda | i'm happy to give an email update, but i'd like to sort one question real quick | 21:12 |
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| mikal | Let's cherry pick out the most important / obvious ones now and do the rest on the ML | 21:12 |
| russellb | up to you | 21:12 |
| russellb | k | 21:12 |
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| devananda | do we (and if so ,how) need grenade testing of the upgrade before we can *land* the driver? | 21:12 |
| dansmith | I think we do | 21:12 |
| devananda | that seems like another chiken and egg problem which took us a few days at the ATL summit to detangle | 21:12 |
| mikal | How do we do that if baremetal never supported devstack? | 21:13 |
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| devananda | right | 21:13 |
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| devananda | there is *no* testing of baremetal right now | 21:13 |
| devananda | so how do we test upgrades from it? | 21:13 |
| russellb | hrm, fair point ... | 21:13 |
| * dansmith headdesks | 21:13 | |
| mikal | Adding baremetal devstack is a pretty big tangent | 21:13 |
| degwea | Hi, can you please consider https://review.openstack.org/#/c/99615/ too? It was submitted in June and looked fine but was not approved. | 21:13 |
| mikal | And probably not something juno has time for | 21:13 |
| russellb | maybe for now we agree this spec should be approved, but let's sort out testing details on ML ? | 21:13 |
| dansmith | so, the things we need to test are pretty small, right? | 21:13 |
| mikal | Yeah, let's be brutal here | 21:14 |
| mikal | We're inclined to grant an exception | 21:14 |
| mikal | But we want to see a status email on -dev, and to have a quick discussion about upgrade testing first | 21:14 |
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| devananda | dansmith: can baremeteal spin up some instances is the first criteria before we can even do a grenade test of an upgrade | 21:14 |
| mikal | We will then talk about that exception in that thread | 21:14 |
| devananda | dansmith: i have no confidence in the first criteria today | 21:14 |
| russellb | #agreed exception granted for deprecate-baremetal-driver, pending agreement on test requirements | 21:14 |
| mriedem | degwea: request an exception on the -dev mailing list | 21:14 |
| mikal | devananda: tripleo uses baremetal though right? | 21:15 |
| angdraug | degwea: see above, the process is 1) get email to openstack-dev; 2) add to https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/nova-juno-spec-priorities; 3) get core reviewers to sponsor | 21:15 |
| mikal | devananda: so we know it works at least a little | 21:15 |
| devananda | now the train starts moving ... i'm gonna drop on and offline a bunch | 21:15 |
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| russellb | devananda: can you start a thread about test requirements? | 21:15 |
| mikal | #info mikal will send an email about how to request an exception to -dev after this meeting | 21:15 |
| degwea | OK,if I do it tomorrow will it still be consider? Thx | 21:15 |
| devananda | mikal: yes, in tripleo. but it's not tested in devstack | 21:15 |
| devananda | russeack. feel free to #action me | 21:15 |
| mikal | degwea: that will be fine, but it will need to be tomorrow | 21:16 |
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| raildo | hi, this BP can be considered? https://review.openstack.org/#/c/102201/ I think sajeesh can explain it better | 21:16 |
| russellb | #action devananda to start a thread on openstack-dev to nail down test expectations for baremetal -> ironic upgrade | 21:16 |
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| sajeesh | yes | 21:16 |
| russellb | so, the next that has 2 or more sponsors is https://review.openstack.org/#/c/84887/16/specs/juno/use-glance-v2-api.rst | 21:16 |
| russellb | i think this is in the obvious category | 21:16 |
| mriedem | raildo: see above | 21:16 |
| mikal | Yeah, approved | 21:16 |
| degwea | Sure it will be tomorrow Thanks | 21:16 |
| raildo | mriedem: ok | 21:16 |
| mikal | Track that in the etherpad? | 21:16 |
| russellb | #agreed glance v2 support exception approved | 21:16 |
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| mikal | Or that! | 21:16 |
| arnaud__ | great thanks russellb | 21:16 |
| mikal | Similarly, where did we end up with the cinder API spec? | 21:17 |
| mriedem | mikal: it's under review | 21:17 |
| mriedem | the code that is | 21:17 |
| mriedem | the spec was approved | 21:17 |
| russellb | thought that one was approved already | 21:17 |
| mriedem | awhile ago | 21:17 |
| mikal | Oh, good | 21:17 |
| mriedem | thingee: ^ | 21:17 |
| russellb | ah right | 21:17 |
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| russellb | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/91486/6/specs/juno/rbd-clone-image-handler.rst | 21:17 |
| mikal | I will admit to not having all 60 something approved specs in my head | 21:17 |
| russellb | is the next one with sponsors | 21:17 |
| russellb | has 4 listed, overkill, heh | 21:17 |
| mikal | I guess the other thing we're asking... | 21:17 |
| thingee | cinder api code is just about done. there is one test still failing | 21:17 |
| mriedem | i think we have to dig into the rbd test failures a bit | 21:18 |
| russellb | at least 2 people have told me they've already looked over the code and think it's reasonable to land very soon | 21:18 |
| mikal | Do we think that spec could be merged today? | 21:18 |
| thingee | cinder v2 api support* | 21:18 |
| mikal | How close is the spec itself? | 21:18 |
| angdraug | mriedem: jaypipes already has a fix in testing for that | 21:18 |
| russellb | mriedem: well the good news is that there weren't *that* many failures | 21:18 |
| mriedem | mikal: the rbd specs says 'testing? nah" | 21:18 |
| mriedem | yeah | 21:18 |
| mikal | mriedem: le sigh | 21:18 |
| russellb | mriedem: yeah but that's in progress now | 21:18 |
| thingee | there is an inconsistency between v1 and v2 in schema type failing. I'll have to update the tempest test to know about both unfortunately. | 21:18 |
| mikal | So... | 21:18 |
| russellb | spec out of date on the test front | 21:18 |
| mikal | If we approve an exception, it has to be timeboxed, right? | 21:18 |
| russellb | and i'm tracking debugging / fixing test failures | 21:19 |
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| mikal | i.e. We will keep reviewing that spec for say a week or something | 21:19 |
| mikal | If we can't agree within a week, its still out? | 21:19 |
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| russellb | mikal: agreed | 21:19 |
| mriedem | i think the spec's testing section just needs updating | 21:19 |
| mikal | What do we think is a reasonable timeout period? | 21:19 |
| russellb | mikal: was assuming we generally were ready to approve the spec if we give an exception | 21:19 |
| russellb | a week is generous IMO | 21:19 |
| mriedem | then the spec is ok, but we can't land the code w/o the test issues resolved | 21:19 |
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| mriedem | resolved = bugs with possible skips if using rbd maybe | 21:20 |
| mikal | So in this case, we'd be giving a week for someone to come up with a _plan_ for testing that we like | 21:20 |
| mikal | (Not nessesarily an implementation) | 21:20 |
| russellb | mikal: i'm all over it | 21:20 |
| mriedem | mikal: russellb has a devstack patch running with rbd | 21:20 |
| russellb | status: https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/LJj1gHesRG | 21:20 |
| mriedem | 14 failures, might not all be rbd | 21:20 |
| mikal | russellb: sure, but I'm trying to set precident for future exceptions | 21:20 |
| mriedem | some are definitely rbd issues | 21:20 |
| * russellb nods | 21:20 | |
| mriedem | i'm still not sure how we're going to test glance and cinder v2 | 21:20 |
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| mriedem | or keystone v3 for that matter | 21:21 |
| mikal | #info a spec exception means that you have a week from the exception being granted to reach a concensus and get the spec merged. If that doesn't happen, then exception expires. | 21:21 |
| russellb | #action russellb will update rbd spec's testing section to reflect progress on ceph testing in the gate | 21:21 |
| cyeoh | can we also look at https://review.openstack.org/#/c/84695/14/specs/juno/v2-on-v3-api.rst (v2.1 on v3) - only has one core sponsor, but I'm pretty sure oomchi would have sponsored too if he knew about the request for core sponsors | 21:21 |
| mikal | Ok, so it sounds like rbd is a spec exception winner | 21:21 |
| russellb | agree on an exception for that one, once the test section is updated? | 21:21 |
| russellb | ok cool | 21:21 |
| arnaud__ | would you guys mind removing the -2 on https://review.openstack.org/#/c/84887/ ? | 21:21 |
| russellb | #agree exception approved for rbd spec, pending update of the test section to reflect gate test progress | 21:21 |
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| mriedem | arnaud__: i think we already did talk about it, else ML | 21:22 |
| russellb | mikal: that's all that had 2 people confirmed already | 21:22 |
| mikal | Let's go backwards and talk v3 API for a second | 21:22 |
| russellb | yeah, that's what i was going to mention next | 21:22 |
| mikal | I just sneakily added my name there to get it over the line | 21:22 |
| arnaud__ | mriedem, we did, but that doesn't encourage people to review if there is a -2 | 21:22 |
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| russellb | ah there it is heh | 21:22 |
| mikal | I would like to see us have a really good try at reaching a concensus on that one in the next week | 21:22 |
| russellb | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/84695/14/specs/juno/v2-on-v3-api.rst | 21:22 |
| mikal | I think we're painfully close | 21:23 |
| russellb | seems reasonable to me | 21:23 |
| mikal | cyeoh: ^-- | 21:23 |
| mriedem | arnaud__: i'd send something to ML so it's not lost | 21:23 |
| mikal | oomichi: ^-- | 21:23 |
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| arnaud__ | ok sure mriedem will do | 21:23 |
| mikal | So, I think that means its an exception winner too | 21:23 |
| russellb | i don't think i should commit to review, but happy to support the exception | 21:23 |
| mikal | With a note that we're really close to not having enough time to actually implement it all | 21:23 |
| russellb | #agreed v2-on-v3-api gets an exception | 21:23 |
| cyeoh | the v2.1 on v3 has all the microversions details merged into it now too so its not dependent on anything else | 21:23 |
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| mikal | I think the people I need for reviews are dansmith and alaski based on previous review concerns | 21:23 |
| mikal | sdague too if he has the time | 21:24 |
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| raildo | mriedem: from what I understand, no spec will be approved in Juno, only K version, ok? | 21:24 |
| alaski | I'm willing to review it | 21:24 |
| mikal | Thanks man | 21:24 |
| dansmith | mikal: yeah, I feel like several of us have said that we're not comfortable trying to get it done by juno, but I'll take another trip through that spec and see if I can convince myself | 21:24 |
| mriedem | raildo: exceptions for juno have to go through the openstack-dev mailing list right now | 21:24 |
| russellb | it does seem scary to crunch in | 21:24 |
| mikal | I think it depends where we draw the line | 21:25 |
| mikal | But yes | 21:25 |
| russellb | but i'm not against at least progress in juno if there can be consensus on the spec | 21:25 |
| raildo | mriedem: ok, thanks | 21:25 |
| mikal | I am worried specifically about the proxying code that isn't written yet (cinder, neutron that is) | 21:25 |
| alaski | I agree with that. But progress would be nice so there's more to discuss at a summit | 21:25 |
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| cyeoh | we had the spec initially submitted in April, so we've been ready to go, just waiting on spec approval really (and the v2.1 on v3 spec itself hasn't changed much) | 21:25 |
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| mikal | For better or worse this is where we are | 21:26 |
| mikal | But I would like to get a start on it at the least | 21:26 |
| mikal | But yeah, let's let the exception process do its work and see where we end up | 21:26 |
| cyeoh | yep, agreed | 21:26 |
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| mikal | I think we should move on from specs to be honest. We only have 30ish minutes to go | 21:27 |
| mikal | Any other exception requests to the mailing list please | 21:27 |
| mikal | Noting that we already have a really large number of specs approved... | 21:27 |
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| hemna | mikal, sent a short quick one for mine. | 21:27 |
| mikal | I am already worried about code review bandwidth | 21:27 |
| russellb | yes. | 21:27 |
| dansmith | yep | 21:28 |
| dansmith | I'm quite concerned | 21:28 |
| mikal | Well, I'm always worried about it | 21:28 |
| mikal | But I think its getting worse | 21:28 |
| mikal | Anyways | 21:28 |
| mikal | #topic Mid-cycle meetup | 21:28 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Mid-cycle meetup (Meeting topic: nova)" | 21:28 | |
| mriedem | did we find chairs? | 21:28 |
| mikal | #info We ran out of seats, mikal has a plan | 21:28 |
| mriedem | or will there be lap sitting? | 21:28 |
| tjones | ewwwww | 21:28 |
| mikal | So... I've asked Intel to re-confirm the size of the room | 21:28 |
| xarses | hot seat | 21:28 |
| mikal | Its apparently a training room so we might be able to drag more sets in | 21:29 |
| mriedem | it's going to smell like a locker room in there... | 21:29 |
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| n0ano | I'm sure we're good for 35, >40 might be a problem. | 21:29 |
| mikal | Either way, I'm going to try and sneak in everyone from that mail thread | 21:29 |
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| mikal | Some of the containers people ahve moved to their meetup, which helps | 21:29 |
| mriedem | ok, was going to ask about that | 21:29 |
| mikal | We will just need to be organized about sending a runner to their room when we start ranting about them | 21:29 |
| mikal | Ditto for the ironic folks | 21:29 |
| mikal | But yeah, we can make it work | 21:30 |
| n0ano | the rooms are withint about 30' of each other | 21:30 |
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| mikal | n0ano: we're metric for K now. So 10 meters | 21:30 |
| alaski | tin cans and string? | 21:30 |
| mikal | Heh | 21:30 |
| tjones | do we have an agenda? or did i miss it? | 21:30 |
| mikal | So, I had a call with n0ano and the other two meetup organizers about logistics the other day | 21:30 |
| mikal | So I think we're set there | 21:30 |
| mikal | There will be an email with details (emergency phone numbers etc) next week | 21:31 |
| mikal | That will just go to registered attendees | 21:31 |
| russellb | tjones: there's an etherpad with proposed topics | 21:31 |
| mikal | Because I don't want to give out the Intel admin's phone number ot the entire world | 21:31 |
| mikal | Yes, next is the agenda | 21:31 |
| n0ano | I do need a final list of attendees names & email aaddresses by this coming Mon. (have to arrange wifi access) | 21:31 |
| mikal | n0ano: ok cool. Can you email me that so I remember? | 21:31 |
| n0ano | mikal, already did | 21:31 |
| mikal | So there's an etherpad collecting topics | 21:32 |
| mikal | n0ano: cool | 21:32 |
| mikal | There's also the hot topics from the meeting page | 21:32 |
| mikal | So, let's spend until say Wednesday nailing that down | 21:32 |
| mikal | And then we can try and turn it into a rough agenda | 21:32 |
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| mikal | I'm ok with that bit beign a little rubbery -- if somehting needs more time than we think it does, we can keep going on it as long as nothing important misses out | 21:32 |
| mikal | Any questions about the midcycle? | 21:33 |
| tjones | do we know which day we are going to talk about bugs? I want to be there for that but can't be there the whole time | 21:33 |
| mikal | tjones: what day works best for you? | 21:33 |
| mikal | tjones: how about you pick a day and put that on the topics etherpad, we can just work with that | 21:33 |
| tjones | monday would be awesone | 21:34 |
| tjones | or awesome too | 21:34 |
| dansmith | I refuse to talk about bugs on monday | 21:34 |
| mikal | Heh | 21:34 |
| tjones | dansmith: i figured | 21:34 |
| mikal | dansmith: mutter | 21:34 |
| dansmith | tjones: just trying to be difficult.. monday is fine | 21:34 |
| tjones | dansmith: :-D | 21:34 |
| mikal | Someone bring a blow dart of sedatives for dansmith | 21:34 |
| dansmith | tjones: devananda told me I'm always difficult, so I'm trying to live up to that | 21:34 |
| mikal | I think you can't get them at walmart | 21:34 |
| russellb | no, you can. | 21:34 |
| mikal | Oh, good | 21:35 |
| mriedem | you can get anything at wal mart | 21:35 |
| russellb | sedatives at least, you may have to bring your own blow darts. | 21:35 |
| mikal | Including freedom? | 21:35 |
| mikal | Anyways | 21:35 |
| mriedem | oh wait except music with swearing | 21:35 |
| mikal | So, nothing _serious_ about the midcycle? | 21:35 |
| * mikal times out | 21:35 | |
| mikal | #topic Bugs | 21:36 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Bugs (Meeting topic: nova)" | 21:36 | |
| russellb | no, that's just your DSL | 21:36 |
| mikal | Apparently we have bugs | 21:36 |
| mikal | russellb: sigh | 21:36 |
| mikal | tjones: talk at us | 21:36 |
| tjones | ok so most of you have seen http://54.201.139.117/nova-bugs.html | 21:36 |
| mikal | Yes, its really good | 21:36 |
| tjones | which helps me an others get a better handle on our situation | 21:36 |
| mikal | The bug count seems to have gone down a fair bit since that page appeared | 21:36 |
| mikal | Last I looked we were at 1,000 instead of 1,400 now | 21:37 |
| tjones | jogo: has been very helpful with geting the abandoned and merged bug list down | 21:37 |
| mriedem | jogo has been doing things | 21:37 |
| mriedem | yeah | 21:37 |
| tjones | yeah things are moving in the right direction! | 21:37 |
| tjones | only 2 criical issues today and both are under control | 21:37 |
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| mikal | Even the SSH timeout one? | 21:37 |
| mikal | Wow | 21:37 |
| tjones | i'd like to point out that there are 183 bugs ready for review | 21:38 |
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| russellb | ready for code review? | 21:38 |
| tjones | yeah - ssh needs a backport, but last comment was it's ok on master | 21:38 |
| tjones | russellb: yes ready for review | 21:38 |
| mikal | tjones: so... a web page listing bugs for review where the bug is older than 7 days would excite me | 21:38 |
| russellb | tjones: wow | 21:38 |
| dansmith | tjones: is that a patch other than the two I did last week to fix that? | 21:38 |
| mikal | I think excluding super new bugs would help | 21:38 |
| leifz | It may be worth removing owners for long un-updated bugs. | 21:38 |
| tjones | mikal: the updated column shows that | 21:38 |
| mikal | Because lots of people file a bug and then immediately fix it | 21:38 |
| dansmith | tjones: because I've got all my fixed backported | 21:38 |
| mikal | tjones: oh, I more meant a page listing reviews I should do | 21:39 |
| mikal | tjones: to encourage, well, review of those thigns | 21:39 |
| tjones | mikal: sure i can add that | 21:39 |
| mikal | tjones: perhaps a separate page or somethign? | 21:39 |
| mriedem | dansmith: i'm not aware of any others for the ssh thing | 21:39 |
| mikal | tjones: but thanks for keeping hacking on this | 21:39 |
| dansmith | mriedem: okay, mine are all backported and committed | 21:39 |
| mriedem | dansmith: unless those need to go to stable/havana for some reason | 21:39 |
| dansmith | mriedem: yeah, don't think so | 21:39 |
| tjones | check jogo comment on https://bugs.launchpad.net/nova/+bug/1298472 | 21:40 |
| mriedem | dansmith: logstash can tell us, i'll check | 21:40 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1298472 in nova "SSHTimeout in tempest trying to verify that computes are actually functioning" [Critical,Confirmed] | 21:40 |
| mriedem | http://status.openstack.org/elastic-recheck/ | 21:40 |
| mriedem | we aren't kiling the gate right now | 21:40 |
| mriedem | others are | 21:40 |
| tjones | mikal: sure it's been fun actually | 21:40 |
| mikal | On the bug front we should probably be paying attention to the mysql deadlock problems neutron is seeing, because I think we're seeing them too | 21:40 |
| mikal | The fix seems to be lost in pypi land, but we should keep half an eye on it | 21:40 |
| dansmith | mriedem: yeah, my last one merged right after jogo's last comment on the bug I think | 21:41 |
| dansmith | tjones: so I think that one is good | 21:41 |
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| tjones | dansmith: great | 21:41 |
| mikal | dansmith: as in the SSHTimeout bug can be resolved? | 21:41 |
| mikal | Resolved^WMarked fix committed? | 21:41 |
| dansmith | mikal: we still hit the problem occasionally, but for a different reason | 21:41 |
| dansmith | mikal: this bug is so over-used though, | 21:41 |
| mikal | Can we close it and make a new one for the smaller case then? | 21:42 |
| mriedem | yeah the query is very generic | 21:42 |
| dansmith | mikal: that I think we should mark it done and open a new one to cover the sporadic other ones | 21:42 |
| mriedem | so any ssh timeout will hit this query | 21:42 |
| dansmith | mikal: yeah, we should do that | 21:42 |
| russellb | dansmith: +1 | 21:42 |
| mikal | dansmith: snap! | 21:42 |
| mriedem | i can remove the e-r query | 21:42 |
| mikal | Excellent | 21:42 |
| mikal | dansmith: please go and expense yourself a bottle of champagne | 21:42 |
| dansmith | that was a big nasty bug, | 21:42 |
| mikal | dansmith: the cheap stuff please | 21:42 |
| dansmith | which was not even gate-related and could be a real problem in production | 21:42 |
| dansmith | so glad to get that resolved | 21:42 |
| mikal | dansmith: it could be passionfruit flavoured | 21:43 |
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| dansmith | mikal: will-do | 21:43 |
| mriedem | dansmith: can you get the patch links into the bug report? | 21:43 |
| mriedem | not sure they are all there | 21:43 |
| mriedem | then we can close it | 21:43 |
| dansmith | mriedem: I'll look, but I thought they were there, because I've been referencing it | 21:43 |
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| mriedem | lp linker doesn't work | 21:43 |
| mriedem | always | 21:43 |
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| mikal | Ok, we should probably move on again | 21:44 |
| dansmith | mriedem: apparently none of them are, so yeah | 21:44 |
| mikal | Anything else on bugs? | 21:44 |
| tjones | not from me | 21:44 |
| mikal | tjones: thanks for doing a great job | 21:44 |
| mikal | dansmith: thanks again for fixing that bug | 21:44 |
| tjones | mikal: thanks! | 21:44 |
| dansmith | yar | 21:44 |
| mriedem | if anyone knows anything about requests connection pools, | 21:44 |
| mriedem | bug 1341777 | 21:44 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1341777 in python-glanceclient "glanceclient is not handling http connection pools properly with python-requests" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1341777 | 21:44 |
| mriedem | glanceclient is spamming the n-cpu logs badly | 21:44 |
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| mriedem | i've tried patches but not fixing it | 21:45 |
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| mikal | mriedem: could you get someone on the glance side to dig into it? | 21:45 |
| mriedem | mikal: flaper87|afk helped with one | 21:45 |
| mikal | mriedem: do other projects see it? | 21:45 |
| mriedem | yes, c-vol | 21:45 |
| mriedem | and g-api is spammed in turn by swiftclient b/c of requests | 21:45 |
| mriedem | same issue i think | 21:45 |
| mikal | Sigh | 21:45 |
| mriedem | i tried ML | 21:46 |
| mriedem | anyway, just fyi | 21:46 |
| mikal | yeah, thanks | 21:46 |
| mriedem | help needed by clienty people | 21:46 |
| mikal | Or someone looking for a good adventure | 21:47 |
| mriedem | 3 days is enough for me | 21:47 |
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| mikal | So, let's move on | 21:47 |
| mikal | #topic Gate Status | 21:47 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Gate Status (Meeting topic: nova)" | 21:47 | |
| mikal | The gate seems pretty good at the moment? | 21:47 |
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| mikal | Very quiet right now in fact | 21:47 |
| *** mrda-away is now known as mrda | 21:48 | |
| dansmith | seems very good this week, yeah | 21:48 |
| mikal | So, j-2 is going to change that, so I think that means we have an incentive to approve as much j-2 stuff as soon as we can | 21:48 |
| dansmith | things merge whilst making coffee, unexpectedly | 21:48 |
| mikal | Obviously without lowering our standards | 21:48 |
| mikal | But if you have a spare moment, do a code review or two | 21:48 |
| mikal | Ok, moving on again | 21:49 |
| mikal | #topic Review status | 21:49 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Review status (Meeting topic: nova)" | 21:49 | |
| mikal | #info Please focus on j-2 reviews | 21:49 |
| mikal | What else do we need to say about reviews? | 21:49 |
| mikal | I'm sure there are people who want their reviews rescued (I have some like that myself) | 21:49 |
| mikal | But let's stick with j-2 as much as is sane | 21:49 |
| russellb | http://russellbryant.net/openstack-stats/nova-openreviews.html | 21:49 |
| russellb | is my report on review queue status | 21:49 |
| russellb | turnaround times have improved in the last couple weeks actually | 21:50 |
| russellb | a few people have been hitting old stuff | 21:50 |
| russellb | there's some more interesting stats at the bottom of http://russellbryant.net/openstack-stats/nova-reviewers-30.txt | 21:50 |
| mikal | The waiting on submitter number makes me a bit happier | 21:50 |
| russellb | Queue growth in the last 30 days: 135 (4.5/day) | 21:50 |
| mikal | Those numbers are probably skewed by the lack of abandons as well | 21:50 |
| russellb | is the scary one | 21:50 |
| mikal | So, cores... | 21:50 |
| mikal | Most of us didn't realize that we now need to hand abandon it seems | 21:50 |
| mikal | The bot went off for a rest | 21:51 |
| russellb | danpb did some nice analysis that showed that the core team is doing a fairly consistent amount over the last year | 21:51 |
| mikal | So, if you see a review thats weeks and weeks old and obviously idle, please manually abandon it | 21:51 |
| russellb | input to the queue is just going up | 21:51 |
| leifz | russellb: I think some of that is my fault, I hit up folks to refresh to verify no merge conflicts. | 21:51 |
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| russellb | leifz: stats would still treat it as old unless jenkins did a -1 after that | 21:51 |
| leifz | russellb: which happened in a number of them :-( | 21:52 |
| russellb | at least the one that does Longest waiting reviews (based on oldest rev without -1 or -2): | 21:52 |
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| mikal | Looking at the time... | 21:52 |
| russellb | Changes merged in the last 30 days: 318 (10.6/day) | 21:52 |
| mikal | Is there anything else urgent about reviews, or shall we do the fastest sub team report round ever? | 21:52 |
| russellb | \o/ | 21:52 |
| * russellb stops spouting off stats | 21:52 | |
| mikal | Heh | 21:52 |
| mikal | #topic Subteam reports | 21:52 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Subteam reports (Meeting topic: nova)" | 21:52 | |
| mikal | Who has something urgent in sub team land? | 21:52 |
| * n0ano gantt | 21:53 | |
| mikal | Go | 21:53 |
| russellb | i just wanted to note that i'm trying to push on getting ceph testing in the gate going | 21:53 |
| russellb | since we've talked about it in here before a little bit | 21:53 |
| russellb | hm, i think i mentioned that earlier, sorry. | 21:53 |
| mikal | Heh, NP | 21:53 |
| n0ano | looking for use cases to justify spliting out gantt, please look at the ether pad https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/SchedulerUseCases | 21:53 |
| mikal | n0ano: do I misunderstand, or is that backwards? | 21:53 |
| n0ano | mikal, ? | 21:54 |
| mikal | n0ano: shouldn't we look for scheduler use cases and then decide what to do? | 21:54 |
| dansmith | lol | 21:54 |
| mikal | n0ano: not decide what to do, and then find reasons to justify it? | 21:54 |
| mikal | n0ano: or perhaps I've totally failed to parse your sentence | 21:54 |
| russellb | mikal: stop thinking rationally sir | 21:54 |
| n0ano | are there use cases that would require a separate scheduler is the question | 21:54 |
| mikal | n0ano: ahh, ok. Cool. | 21:55 |
| russellb | but yes, lately the whole split idea has been questioned | 21:55 |
| mikal | I am looking forward to getting Jay in a room and talking through that | 21:55 |
| * russellb hasn't been able to catch up on all the related ML traffic though ... | 21:55 | |
| mikal | It seems he has thoughts to share | 21:55 |
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| jaypipes | uh oh. | 21:55 |
| melwitt | mikal: I read it the same way, sounds backward | 21:55 |
| mikal | LOL | 21:55 |
| n0ano | I think there are other, non-technical reasons for the split but having technical justification would help | 21:55 |
| russellb | jaypipes: that sounded threatening, didn't it? | 21:55 |
| russellb | jaypipes: watch out for the boomerang | 21:55 |
| mikal | A bunch of the refactoring proposed makes sense to me regardless of split or not | 21:55 |
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| jaypipes | angdraug: fyi, *still* waiting for integrated api samples tests to complete... guh, they take around 5 seconds for each test method. | 21:56 |
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| mikal | Like making the scheduler more advisory and not a part of the boot flow | 21:56 |
| russellb | agreed | 21:56 |
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| mikal | I think this will be a largish topic at the meetup | 21:56 |
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| mikal | So, any other subteams? | 21:56 |
| mikal | #topic Open Discussion | 21:56 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: nova)" | 21:56 | |
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| mikal | You have two minutes for open discussion, use it wisely | 21:57 |
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| mikal | I like pancakes | 21:57 |
| * russellb likes pancakes, but prefers a good belgian waffle | 21:57 | |
| mikal | Oh, and did another python-novaclient release | 21:57 |
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| mikal | Plus, have creted an ongoing LP burden for future nova PTLs because it amuses me | 21:57 |
| mikal | created even | 21:57 |
| russellb | using milestones? | 21:57 |
| russellb | that's a good idea | 21:57 |
| mikal | Yeah | 21:57 |
| russellb | should have all along | 21:57 |
| mikal | 2.18.0 looks _big_ in LP! | 21:58 |
| russellb | ha | 21:58 |
| mikal | Its actually pretty easy | 21:58 |
| russellb | mikal: that script you're using handle it? | 21:58 |
| mikal | I stole dolphm's script to do it | 21:58 |
| russellb | cool | 21:58 |
| mikal | Its documented on the wiki | 21:58 |
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| russellb | ttx has some handy scripts that help with this kind of stuff too | 21:58 |
| russellb | like, auto deferring bugs not fixed | 21:58 |
| mikal | One day we should document all of those | 21:58 |
| russellb | pfft. | 21:58 |
| mikal | Well, with the client I've been creating the milestone 30 seconds before releasing | 21:59 |
| mikal | So deferral isn't a thing | 21:59 |
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| russellb | create, then target everything fixed? | 21:59 |
| russellb | meh, works :) | 21:59 |
| sean-k-mooney | can i ask how excetions should be requested via the ml? | 21:59 |
| mikal | Yep, that's the flow | 21:59 |
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| mikal | sean-k-mooney: spec exceptions, yes? | 21:59 |
| sean-k-mooney | yes | 21:59 |
| mikal | sean-k-mooney: as in... yes, spec exceptions to the ML please | 21:59 |
| russellb | ttx's process_bugs.py can do the auto-target bit i think | 21:59 |
| dansmith | aaaaand, time. | 22:00 |
| mikal | Yep | 22:00 |
| sean-k-mooney | ok i was just wondering if it was documented | 22:00 |
| mikal | Thanks again for coming peoples | 22:00 |
| mikal | You're all lovely people with nice hair styles | 22:00 |
| russellb | thanks | 22:00 |
| mikal | #endmeeting | 22:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 22:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Thu Jul 17 22:00:24 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 22:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova/2014/nova.2014-07-17-21.01.html | 22:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova/2014/nova.2014-07-17-21.01.txt | 22:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova/2014/nova.2014-07-17-21.01.log.html | 22:00 |
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| mikal | sean-k-mooney: I promised to send an email with the process after the meeting | 22:00 |
| mikal | sean-k-mooney: but I need to get coffee first | 22:00 |
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| sean-k-mooney | ok thank you. | 22:01 |
| russellb | mikal: not the 1st cup i hope | 22:01 |
| russellb | that should be required before a meeting | 22:01 |
| mikal | russellb: first cup happened during the meeting | 22:01 |
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| russellb | xlnt | 22:01 |
| * russellb disappears | 22:01 | |
| mikal | I'd been up for like 5 minutes at the start of the meeting | 22:01 |
| mikal | Cause I slept in cause cold | 22:01 |
| mikal | As in, it was too cold to get out of bed | 22:01 |
| mikal | So I refused | 22:01 |
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| cyeoh | mikal: cbr rule #1 - can't get out of bed until the top of the quilt is warm | 22:03 |
| russellb | lol | 22:03 |
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| mikal | cyeoh: or the penguins have wandered off at least | 22:04 |
| mikal | russellb: it is now 8am, and 1 degree above freezing outside | 22:04 |
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| tinoue | alaski: hi | 22:08 |
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