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| annegentle | doc team meeting in here in 10 minutes | 12:50 |
|---|---|---|
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| sgordon | \o/ | 12:56 |
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| annegentle | Woo! | 13:00 |
| annegentle | Let's get started! | 13:00 |
| annegentle | #startmeeting DocTeamMeeting | 13:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Sep 24 13:00:53 2013 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is annegentle. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 13:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 13:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: DocTeamMeeting)" | 13:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'docteammeeting' | 13:00 |
| EmilienM | o/ | 13:01 |
| annegentle | I think I spell it differently each time, sigh. | 13:01 |
| EmilienM | \o/ | 13:01 |
| annegentle | Ok, Agenda is at https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/DocTeamMeeting#Agenda_for_next_meeting | 13:01 |
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| annegentle | #topic Action items review | 13:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Action items review (Meeting topic: DocTeamMeeting)" | 13:01 | |
| annegentle | #link http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/docteammeeting/2013/docteammeeting.2013-08-28-13.01.html | 13:01 |
| annegentle | Let's see. I clarified our reviewing policy | 13:01 |
| annegentle | let me find the link for archiving/notes | 13:02 |
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| annegentle | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Documentation/HowTo#Reviewing_Documentation | 13:02 |
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| annegentle | That was all the action items. | 13:03 |
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| annegentle | #topic Admin guides | 13:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Admin guides (Meeting topic: DocTeamMeeting)" | 13:03 | |
| annegentle | Just bringing up admin guides so we all have the status | 13:03 |
| nermina | hello all | 13:03 |
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| annegentle | Nermina (who will be here soon) completed the patch to move the Networking Admin guide | 13:03 |
| annegentle | Oh hi nermina! | 13:03 |
| annegentle | :) | 13:03 |
| nermina | hey :) | 13:04 |
| annegentle | Move the Networking Admin guide content into all the other places (install, config, admin) | 13:04 |
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| annegentle | Thank you nermina! That was a pile of work | 13:04 |
| nermina | no problem! | 13:04 |
| nermina | yw | 13:04 |
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| radsy | o/ | 13:05 |
| annegentle | Any other reports on admin guides? I also did a redirect from /trunk/openstack-compute/admin | 13:05 |
| AJaeger | So, shall we remove the networking guide from publishing and docs.o.o? | 13:05 |
| annegentle | radsy: go | 13:05 |
| annegentle | AJaeger: yes | 13:05 |
| dianefleming | yes | 13:05 |
| AJaeger | annashen, give me that action item | 13:05 |
| annegentle | #action AJaeger to remove Networking Admin Guide builds and links | 13:05 |
| AJaeger | I meant annegentle instead of annashen ;( | 13:05 |
| annegentle | AJaeger: yeah that happens more often than not! :) | 13:05 |
| nermina | still need to consolidate advanced features tho Diane has confirmed that the current version is fresher | 13:06 |
| annegentle | radsy: oh sorry did you have a question or were you just waving? :) | 13:06 |
| radsy | just waving:) | 13:06 |
| annegentle | nermina: yep okay | 13:06 |
| annegentle | radsy: o/ <--- I'll wave back then! :) | 13:06 |
| annegentle | nermina: ok, what's a time estimate for consolidating the advanced sections? | 13:07 |
| nermina | it could go away today, i just need to confirm the state | 13:07 |
| annegentle | nermina: ok great | 13:07 |
| annegentle | Okay any more Qs on admin guides? There are just two with "admin" in the title - the Cloud Administration Guide and the Admin User Guide | 13:08 |
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| sgordon | i think the distinction in terms of content is fairly clear | 13:08 |
| annegentle | Thanks for all the hard work on the consolidation - nermina, dianefleming, AJaeger | 13:08 |
| dianefleming | sure | 13:08 |
| annegentle | sgordon: yeah I like how it shaped up | 13:08 |
| dianefleming | Oh, i have a comment - | 13:09 |
| nermina | thank you annegentle | 13:09 |
| annegentle | dianefleming: sure | 13:09 |
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| dianefleming | I think the Cloud Administration Guide is titled "Cloud Administrators Guide," but it should be "Cloud Administrator Guide" (IMO) - so it mimics the "User Guide" and "Admin User Guide" (singular audience User, Administrator, etc.) | 13:09 |
| annegentle | dianefleming: ok, I agree, nermina, sgordon, AJaeger, what do you all think? | 13:10 |
| nermina | dianefleming: i noticed the discrepancy too and could fix it when i put in compute and dashboard edits from smes | 13:10 |
| dianefleming | cool! | 13:10 |
| AJaeger | the book is called "OpenStack Cloud Administration Guide" | 13:10 |
| dianefleming | oh! | 13:10 |
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| AJaeger | http://docs.openstack.org/admin-guide-cloud/content/ | 13:11 |
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| AJaeger | but yes, /trunk/index.html says differently. | 13:11 |
| AJaeger | Let'S agree on one name | 13:11 |
| nermina | just need your votes, annegentle, dianefleming, ajaeger, sgordon, and all | 13:11 |
| nermina | :) | 13:11 |
| dianefleming | Administrator | 13:12 |
| sgordon | nermina, i dont have a strong opinion on this one | 13:12 |
| sgordon | (shocking i know) | 13:12 |
| sgordon | :) | 13:12 |
| nermina | :) | 13:12 |
| AJaeger | I agree with dianefleming for consistency of the titles - Administrator | 13:12 |
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| radsy | +1 Administrator | 13:12 |
| nermina | +1 administrator | 13:12 |
| EmilienM | +1 administrator | 13:13 |
| nermina | thanks emilienm | 13:13 |
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| nermina | all, sounds like administrator it is | 13:14 |
| * NickChase disagrees but he was late and didn't hear the arguments so he'll be quiet. :) | 13:14 | |
| nermina | lol | 13:14 |
| annegentle | hee | 13:14 |
| EmilienM | ahah | 13:14 |
| EmilienM | NickChase: go ahead ! | 13:14 |
| annegentle | #agree Cloud Administrator Guide title change | 13:15 |
| dianefleming | there were no arguments | 13:15 |
| annegentle | dianefleming: can you do the patch? | 13:15 |
| dianefleming | sure! | 13:15 |
| annegentle | #action dianefleming to patch Cloud Administrator Guide for new title | 13:15 |
| AJaeger | dianefleming, I'm patching index.html already | 13:15 |
| annegentle | Ok, on to install guide(s)? | 13:15 |
| NickChase | It's ok, I'm not that intense on it. | 13:15 |
| annegentle | #topic Install guides | 13:15 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Install guides (Meeting topic: DocTeamMeeting)" | 13:15 | |
| annegentle | Doh, no shaunm this morning. | 13:15 |
| annegentle | I've been asking him to patch what he's got, but it sounds like it's such a major rewrite he's struggling with a single patch | 13:16 |
| annegentle | I'll keep asking today for him to see how we can split up the work | 13:16 |
| sgordon | my concern with that is that we're less than a month out | 13:16 |
| annegentle | sgordon: oh yes me too | 13:16 |
| sgordon | and it's very hard for anybody else to contribute | 13:16 |
| sgordon | if there is no base :) | 13:16 |
| annegentle | sgordon: what can we do? | 13:16 |
| sgordon | i think he just needs to commit what he has | 13:16 |
| NickChase | is there any way someone else can help him? | 13:16 |
| sgordon | "commit early and often" | 13:16 |
| dianefleming | agreed | 13:16 |
| annegentle | sgordon: yeah I agree | 13:16 |
| EmilienM | +1 | 13:17 |
| nermina | i'd be happy to help | 13:17 |
| annegentle | nermina: great. | 13:17 |
| annegentle | And I'm willing too | 13:17 |
| annegentle | one idea is that we could each take an architecture | 13:17 |
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| annegentle | I could take the Obj. Storage + Identity | 13:17 |
| annegentle | for example | 13:17 |
| annegentle | Ok let's talk to Shaun today | 13:18 |
| nermina | ok | 13:18 |
| annegentle | #action annegentle discuss Install patches with Shaun | 13:18 |
| annegentle | #topic Standards for reviews | 13:18 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Standards for reviews (Meeting topic: DocTeamMeeting)" | 13:18 | |
| annegentle | This came up in a review where Diane had done a lot of copyediting/cleanup. | 13:19 |
| annegentle | And I wanted to discuss here | 13:19 |
| dianefleming | yes | 13:19 |
| AJaeger | I agree with sgordon here. | 13:19 |
| annegentle | tom's not here to talk about his position | 13:19 |
| AJaeger | I would like to add more openSUSE information | 13:19 |
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| annegentle | AJaeger: yeah and you feel like the install's "blocked" right? | 13:20 |
| dianefleming | everyone seems okay with establishing writing standards, but there was controversy about whether we should standardize on a specific version of english (en-US, en-AU, etc.) | 13:20 |
| annegentle | AJaeger: I'm in total agreement | 13:20 |
| annegentle | dianefleming: thanks was trying to summarize and that's a good summary | 13:20 |
| AJaeger | annegentle, yes, I feel blocked | 13:20 |
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| nermina | can you provide some detail? | 13:21 |
| sgordon | the suggestion was that we standardize on en-US | 13:21 |
| annegentle | nermina: Sure, basically, we should all write to the conventions, but then the question was, what about comma placement, spelling, for regional differences? | 13:21 |
| sgordon | tom and my position was that this wouldn't resolve many of the issues noted | 13:21 |
| sgordon | which impact any dialect | 13:21 |
| annegentle | yep sgordon | 13:22 |
| NickChase | what kind of issues? | 13:22 |
| sgordon | (and are also already conventions in many cases, but not always followed) | 13:22 |
| sgordon | tense, latinisms | 13:22 |
| dianefleming | Correct - that wouldn't resolve other issues, but I think it doesn't look good to have a single book written in several dialects | 13:22 |
| AJaeger | Sorry, I need to leave for a meeting - I'll try to be back as soon as possible | 13:22 |
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| nermina | hmm, i think the simpler the better | 13:22 |
| sgordon | the actual example was whether to put commas inside or outside quotation marks | 13:22 |
| annegentle | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/46811/ | 13:22 |
| dianefleming | and I don't see the harm on standardizing on en-US - but perhaps I'm missing something | 13:23 |
| sgordon | but that was ultimately resolved with markup of the values i think (instead of quotations) | 13:23 |
| dianefleming | that and spelling differences | 13:23 |
| nermina | most of the world puts them outside | 13:23 |
| NickChase | I think that it would be good to standardize -- at a lower priority than actual content | 13:23 |
| annegentle | My thinking is we need to ensure reviewers and writers know we write to conventions. | 13:23 |
| annegentle | But yes, the priority is what trips people up. | 13:23 |
| NickChase | basically I think that spelling "colorise" with an "s" shouldn't block a merge. | 13:24 |
| annegentle | I don't think we're (yet) prioritizing copying editing over content creation. | 13:24 |
| dianefleming | i just want to establish what our standards are, versus cleaning up the books to meet those standards - it's more about future contributions. if people know what's expected, they can meet the standards | 13:24 |
| sgordon | my contention is that many of these things are already part of the standards we are supposed to be following | 13:24 |
| NickChase | if someone has time to go back and fix it, great. | 13:24 |
| annegentle | NickChase: heh you're in Tom's and Steve's camp. | 13:24 |
| sgordon | so i dont see how adding en-US as a standard will change those issues getting through | 13:24 |
| NickChase | Only because I've been in their shoes, in reverse. | 13:24 |
| annegentle | NickChase: which shoes? the editor's? | 13:24 |
| NickChase | The writer's. | 13:24 |
| NickChase | I write for English pubs | 13:25 |
| dianefleming | it won't change those issues getting through | 13:25 |
| NickChase | and I sometimes get dinged for "Americanisms" | 13:25 |
| dianefleming | but it will give people guidelines | 13:25 |
| NickChase | that's my point; as long as it doesn't block a change, I'm for standardization. | 13:25 |
| NickChase | if someone has time to fix it, great. | 13:25 |
| dianefleming | so if someone provides edits on a review, they can justify their suggestions | 13:25 |
| sgordon | as i said though, they already have guidelines on most of the issues you noted in that email because they are non-dialect dependent | 13:25 |
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| annegentle | NickChase: I think we might as well review to a standard and patch it before it gets into the repo if needed | 13:25 |
| annegentle | dianefleming: right that's my thinking as well | 13:26 |
| dianefleming | @nickchase I agree | 13:26 |
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| annegentle | We need to be able to point to a standard, our Conventions page could just say "we review for en-US" and that would be enough I think. | 13:26 |
| NickChase | @annegentle if you're saying it's a target, then I agree. If you're saying it's hard-and-fast-must-be-followed-or-else rule, then I disagree. :) | 13:26 |
| annegentle | Worth a try anyway, I do defer to sgordon on this though if you see more mish-mash | 13:26 |
| annegentle | NickChase: eh, I'm never a hard-and-fast :) | 13:27 |
| NickChase | AnneGentle: Then I agree. :) | 13:27 |
| annegentle | NickChase: but I do feel a need to set a bar, we've done a ton of cleanup, let's not degrade. | 13:27 |
| nermina | it's unfair to have it to en-us but then you have to have some kind of standard | 13:27 |
| dianefleming | it can't be hard and fast because this gate is a human gate! it's not automated | 13:27 |
| annegentle | Tom also said that he doesn't think translators need it, does anyone else have an opinion about affect on translators? | 13:27 |
| sgordon | i think the impact of en-US versus en-XX is minimal for translators | 13:28 |
| annegentle | ("it" being en-us or en-gb) | 13:28 |
| sgordon | obviously tense, voice etc. do have an impact | 13:28 |
| sgordon | but as we stated that's not really down to the particular dialect used | 13:28 |
| NickChase | I don't think they need it either | 13:28 |
| annegentle | sgordon: okay, yeah I'm sure colloquial speech is tougher than ize or ise | 13:28 |
| sgordon | yup | 13:28 |
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| nermina | annegentle: depends if the translator is en-gb. they may be more set in their writing/editing ways | 13:29 |
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| annegentle | Ok, anyone want to propose what we can agree on for standards? My 2 drafts would be: | 13:29 |
| annegentle | 1. Standardize on our /Conventions/ page and add en-us, review to those standards, patch as needed. | 13:29 |
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| annegentle | or | 13:29 |
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| annegentle | hm. It's the or I'm not sure of. sgordon what would be the alternative? | 13:30 |
| sgordon | i dont know that it's necessarily an or | 13:30 |
| annegentle | sgordon: okay | 13:31 |
| sgordon | i think regardless of whether standardizing on dialect or not | 13:31 |
| NickChase | I think you need to just add "if feasible" to the end and you're good | 13:31 |
| annegentle | NickChase: seems fair enough. dianefleming what do you think? | 13:31 |
| NickChase | because you don't want people who aren't confident in their own brand of en-US to feel like they can't review | 13:31 |
| sgordon | there needs to be *some* focus in the review pipeline on the issues noted in the conventions | 13:31 |
| dianefleming | that sounds fine - | 13:31 |
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| annegentle | it feels never feasible against an install guide that's not done, but sigh. | 13:31 |
| sgordon | which i would argue currently there is not to a degree | 13:31 |
| dianefleming | i don't want to discourage contributors in any way! | 13:31 |
| sgordon | lol | 13:31 |
| annegentle | sgordon: yes | 13:31 |
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| annegentle | Ok I'm just going to add the Conventions to the reviewers guidelines | 13:32 |
| dianefleming | i'm just a nit picker and it drives me nuts to see a word spelled differently in a single paragraph....:) | 13:32 |
| annegentle | #action annegentle to add Conventions to the reviewers guidelines | 13:32 |
| dianefleming | which i have seen! | 13:32 |
| annegentle | dianefleming: yes and it's why you're a damn good writer | 13:32 |
| dianefleming | ha! | 13:32 |
| annegentle | I left translation status on the agenda but I don't know of any | 13:33 |
| annegentle | #topic Translation status | 13:33 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Translation status (Meeting topic: DocTeamMeeting)" | 13:33 | |
| annegentle | I dont' know of any updates or news, anyone else? | 13:33 |
| sgordon | negative, i havent heard anything | 13:33 |
| annegentle | Ok moving on | 13:33 |
| annegentle | #topic Doc tools update | 13:33 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Doc tools update (Meeting topic: DocTeamMeeting)" | 13:33 | |
| * sgordon makes a note he probably should be attending their meetings too | 13:33 | |
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| annegentle | sgordon: yeah theirs are in my evening so I haven't made it to a single one yet. | 13:34 |
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| annegentle | sgordon: but it would be great if you can try to get to some | 13:34 |
| annegentle | Ok, we do have 1.10.0 Maven plugin available. dianefleming and I are doing a test blitz of all outputs Friday | 13:34 |
| annegentle | I will pick what we should standardize on for the release once we get some testing done | 13:34 |
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| annegentle | 1.10.0 has some issues for the API reference page | 13:35 |
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| sgordon | is there any intent to use the olink functionality for this release at this point? | 13:35 |
| dianefleming | yes, i plan to write a test plan before the testing | 13:35 |
| annegentle | sgordon: no not for havana | 13:35 |
| annegentle | dianefleming: awesome | 13:35 |
| sgordon | ok cool | 13:35 |
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| annegentle | oh and do look at the new doc bug functionality David's adding | 13:36 |
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| nermina | pretty cool that | 13:36 |
| annegentle | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-docs/2013-September/002855.html | 13:36 |
| nermina | shaunm is here. hi shaunm! | 13:36 |
| annegentle | what do you all think about having an "lp" icon for logging a bug? | 13:36 |
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| shaunm | hi nermina | 13:37 |
| annegentle | shaunm: hey -- let's switch to install guide | 13:37 |
| sgordon | my only concern would be whether all readers necessarily will recognize that | 13:37 |
| sgordon | but given they have to have an lp account to successfully log a bug anyway | 13:37 |
| sgordon | im not sure that is an issue | 13:37 |
| annegentle | sgordon: yeah good point, and we may be switching off of LP someday | 13:37 |
| shaunm | an icon instead of text? | 13:37 |
| nermina | annegentle: bug icon! | 13:37 |
| annegentle | nermina: I thought of that too! | 13:37 |
| sgordon | yeah a more generic bug icon with appropriate alt text | 13:37 |
| sgordon | might be better | 13:37 |
| annegentle | shaunm: to match the PDF and RSS icons in the grey bar | 13:37 |
| annegentle | shaunm: moves it to the top (for visibility) | 13:38 |
| nermina | love this functionality! brilliant! | 13:38 |
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| annegentle | sgordon: is yours text only, and placed at the bottom of the page? | 13:38 |
| sgordon | yeah | 13:38 |
| sgordon | at the end of each <section> | 13:38 |
| annegentle | sgordon: okay I was trying to find a link yesterday | 13:38 |
| sgordon | so depending on chunking may be more than one time a page | 13:39 |
| annegentle | sgordon: oh huh. Hm. | 13:39 |
| shaunm | I suspect text-only at the bottom of the page would get noticed more than an icon in the header bar. I could be wrong. I'm often wrong. | 13:39 |
| sgordon | it's a long story but it's in some but not all of our guides atm | 13:39 |
| annegentle | shaunm: yeah David's thinking was to keep it near Disqus comments. | 13:39 |
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| annegentle | shaunm: but then Sam had another idea | 13:39 |
| dianefleming | Do we need the Disqus comments? | 13:39 |
| annegentle | dianefleming: Ideally we'll move to the ask.openstack.org threads instead! | 13:40 |
| dianefleming | Couldn't we just put a link to that and get rid of disqus? | 13:40 |
| annegentle | dianefleming: but I don't have someone to do that design/integration | 13:40 |
| annegentle | dianefleming: that's not a bad idea, what do you all think? | 13:40 |
| annegentle | dianefleming: some people are solving problems in the comments, but it still usually comes back to a doc bug | 13:41 |
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| sgordon | i think dropping the disqus might be appropriate | 13:41 |
| dianefleming | yeah, if it's a doc bug (or a dev bug), it should be a bug. for general questions, ask.openstack.org should be good - but i don't know | 13:41 |
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| sgordon | potentially as well as report a bug you could add a link to ask.openstack.org | 13:41 |
| annegentle | I wonder if we could link to ask.openstack.org | 13:42 |
| annegentle | sgordon: heh. | 13:42 |
| annegentle | and then do real integration later | 13:42 |
| sgordon | embedding ask.openstack.org directly in the page (like disqus is now) will be more time consuming | 13:42 |
| annegentle | sgordon: yep | 13:42 |
| nermina | annegentle: if the link to ask also scooped in the section name or otherwise reduced the amount of typing | 13:42 |
| sgordon | but for now a link might do the trick | 13:42 |
| annegentle | nermina: oh yeah true | 13:42 |
| NickChase | I'm for the link; I'm for anything that increases Ask's traffic. | 13:42 |
| sgordon | that is effectively what it does for the bug link | 13:43 |
| sgordon | so i am sure the same can be done for ask | 13:43 |
| sgordon | (pre-populate the title) | 13:43 |
| nermina | cool | 13:43 |
| annegentle | NickChase: sgordon: yep I bet so. | 13:43 |
| NickChase | Not sure prepopulating the title is good, though | 13:43 |
| annegentle | anyone want to investigate further? | 13:43 |
| NickChase | because then we wind up with people not thinking about what the title should actually be | 13:43 |
| annegentle | NickChase: I wouldn't want a flood on ask | 13:43 |
| NickChase | no, no, not a flood, of course. | 13:43 |
| annegentle | NickChase: right and it would not be 'a question" | 13:43 |
| NickChase | annegentle: exactly | 13:44 |
| annegentle | I think it's worth further investigation. I have Todd Morey working on a new design, and I think part of my reqeust was ask integration. | 13:44 |
| annegentle | I'll follow up with Todd. | 13:44 |
| NickChase | if we leave the title unpopulated it forces people to think about whether this is really appropriate for ask. | 13:44 |
| annegentle | NickChase: true | 13:44 |
| annegentle | Ok let's circle back to install guide | 13:44 |
| annegentle | #topic Install guide status | 13:44 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Install guide status (Meeting topic: DocTeamMeeting)" | 13:44 | |
| annegentle | shaunm: What can we do to help? What can you do to push us pieces? | 13:45 |
| annegentle | shaunm: we're all feeling a bit blocked | 13:46 |
| shaunm | annegentle: did you get a chance to look over the diff I sent yesterday? | 13:46 |
| annegentle | shaunm: hm, how'd you send it? | 13:46 |
| shaunm | email, as a git diff | 13:46 |
| annegentle | shaunm: ok found it | 13:46 |
| annegentle | shaunm: oh ok, I think you could patch with this diff -- it's commented | 13:47 |
| shaunm | to review.openstack.org? | 13:47 |
| annegentle | shaunm: yeah, then let's figure out how to parcel out the work | 13:48 |
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| shaunm | right, so it's hard for others to build on it before it's actually pushed | 13:48 |
| annegentle | shaunm: it's just way too late in the game | 13:48 |
| annegentle | shaunm: right | 13:49 |
| shaunm | and I'm not at all comfortable pushing something like that to master. I'd normally use a development branch for this kind of thing | 13:49 |
| annegentle | shaunm: but for us, our master is where we keep working | 13:49 |
| shaunm | all right | 13:50 |
| annegentle | shaunm: and we dont' have a way to start a sandbox branch that I know of, not with our infrastructure | 13:50 |
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| NickChase | I think at this point people will understand if things are a bit wonky. besides, if the current guide were sufficient, you wouldn't be rewriting it. | 13:51 |
| annegentle | shaunm: only other idea I have is to publish only to docs-draft? | 13:51 |
| annegentle | Overview and Architecture, Basic Operating System Configuration, Nova Compute | 13:52 |
| annegentle | Services, and Compute Node chapters | 13:52 |
| annegentle | so are these done ^^ | 13:52 |
| dianefleming | I have to head out for an appointment - bye all | 13:52 |
| annegentle | dianefleming: okie doke | 13:52 |
| sgordon | yeah i have to duck in a few minutes too | 13:52 |
| annegentle | shaunm: yes we do understand this is a tough task, but we need to be unblocked | 13:52 |
| NickChase | bye dianefleming | 13:53 |
| nermina | see ya later dianefleming | 13:53 |
| annegentle | shaunm: and no one will fault you!! This is tough content to write, test and organize. | 13:53 |
| NickChase | +1 annegentle | 13:53 |
| NickChase | shaunm: so let people help you | 13:53 |
| shaunm | I have the content for all of those. I just have to put it in docbook and make it read well | 13:53 |
| NickChase | shaunm: If you want I can put it in docbook for you | 13:54 |
| annegentle | shaunm: maybe your patch can include the non-docbook notes? | 13:54 |
| annegentle | NickChase: that would be awesome | 13:54 |
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| NickChase | docbook I can do in my sleep. | 13:54 |
| nermina | shaunm: glad to help as well | 13:54 |
| shaunm | docbook isn't a problem for me | 13:54 |
| annegentle | heh | 13:54 |
| nermina | true that nickchase | 13:54 |
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| NickChase | shaunm: but it's a matter of time; this is something I can do to help you | 13:55 |
| NickChase | so you can concentrate on content | 13:55 |
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| annegentle | shaunm: basically just keep patching, I'd expect 2x a week from here on | 13:55 |
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| shaunm | ok | 13:56 |
| NickChase | shaunm: Once it's in docbook it'll be easier for you to just do the readability | 13:56 |
| annegentle | shaunm: take NickChase up on his offer :) | 13:56 |
| sgordon | yeah | 13:56 |
| annegentle | shaunm: is your non-docbook text all your testing? | 13:56 |
| NickChase | I promise not to judge. :) | 13:56 |
| sgordon | i think we all recognize you are performing open heart surgery | 13:56 |
| shaunm | it's really no faster for me to write without markup than with | 13:56 |
| sgordon | so we wont be too brutal on the in progress reviews | 13:56 |
| annegentle | +1 sgordon | 13:56 |
| NickChase | +1 sgordon | 13:57 |
| annegentle | shaunm: yes just let us review (non judgementally) :) | 13:57 |
| annegentle | Ok | 13:57 |
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| annegentle | onward! | 13:57 |
| annegentle | #topic Bug report, DocImpact state | 13:57 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Bug report, DocImpact state (Meeting topic: DocTeamMeeting)" | 13:57 | |
| annegentle | Quickly, | 13:57 |
| annegentle | #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/openstack-manuals/+milestone/havana | 13:58 |
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| nermina | hold on a sec, i have a q, annegentle | 13:58 |
| nermina | will the new content obsolete the old install guide? | 13:58 |
| nermina | or absorb it | 13:59 |
| annegentle | Our confirmed is fewer than Fix Released \o/ | 13:59 |
| annegentle | shaunm: what's your thinking? obsolete or absorb? | 13:59 |
| nermina | we have people editing networking there | 14:00 |
| shaunm | it will be the one true install guide. it happens to reuse some content from the existing install guide. | 14:00 |
| annegentle | nermina: ok, sounds like that's safe to do | 14:00 |
| annegentle | more absorb than obsolete | 14:00 |
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| shaunm | mostly reuses conceptual info. tasks are almost all rewritten | 14:00 |
| nermina | cool | 14:00 |
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| nermina | sorry to interrupt, bugs! | 14:01 |
| annegentle | nermina: no worries! | 14:01 |
| annegentle | Really we're in good shape, better than past releases, but there are a ton of "medium" bugs | 14:01 |
| annegentle | And only about five in progress | 14:02 |
| annegentle | so keep picking up bugs if you can | 14:02 |
| nermina | i'll be able to take on more between cloud admin edits | 14:02 |
| annegentle | I also did a walkthrough of DocImpact | 14:02 |
| annegentle | #link http://justwriteclick.com/2013/09/17/openstack-docimpact-flag-walk-through/ | 14:02 |
| annegentle | and would love input on whether that's how these DocImpact ones typically work -- would that set of questions help people work on DocImpact bugs more efficiently? | 14:02 |
| annegentle | Ok, that's our hour... sorry didn't leave any time for open discussion! | 14:02 |
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| annegentle | Want to continue open discussion in #openstack-doc? | 14:03 |
| NickChase | ok with me | 14:03 |
| annegentle | Ok, I'll be in openstack-doc, thanks all for joining! | 14:03 |
| annegentle | #endmeeting | 14:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 14:03 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Sep 24 14:03:41 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 14:03 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/docteammeeting/2013/docteammeeting.2013-09-24-13.00.html | 14:03 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/docteammeeting/2013/docteammeeting.2013-09-24-13.00.txt | 14:03 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/docteammeeting/2013/docteammeeting.2013-09-24-13.00.log.html | 14:03 |
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| garyk | hi, anyone around for the scheduler meeting? | 15:00 |
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| PaulMurray | i'm here | 15:01 |
| garyk | hi paul | 15:01 |
| MikeSpreitzer | I'm here | 15:01 |
| Yathi | I am here | 15:01 |
| Yathi | Hi Gary, Paul, Mike | 15:01 |
| PaulMurray | hi - I missed last week and can't find any record of the meeting | 15:01 |
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| PaulMurray | is there one somewhere - its not in usual place | 15:02 |
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| garyk | PaulMurray: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/scheduling/2013/scheduling.2013-09-17-15.03.txt | 15:02 |
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| PaulMurray | @garyk thanks | 15:03 |
| garyk | not sure if i need to update the wiki with the links | 15:03 |
| garyk | #startmeeting scheduling | 15:03 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Sep 24 15:03:24 2013 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is garyk. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 15:03 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 15:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: scheduling)" | 15:03 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'scheduling' | 15:03 |
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| garyk | Last week we did not have much chance to discuss Mike's and Tahi's ideas. | 15:03 |
| garyk | Sorry Yathi's | 15:04 |
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| garyk | MikeSpreitzer: do you want to start? | 15:04 |
| MikeSpreitzer | OK | 15:04 |
| Subbu | #info | 15:04 |
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| garyk | Subbu: please see https://docs.google.com/document/d/1hQQGHId-z1A5LOipnBXFhsU3VAMQdSe-UXvL4VPY4ps/edit | 15:04 |
| MikeSpreitzer | Should I start with responding to the latest thing on the ML (From Zane), or start from scratch? | 15:04 |
| Subbu | thanks garyk | 15:05 |
| garyk | MikeSpreitzer: I am fine with that. Not sure if others are up to speed or having been following the list. | 15:05 |
| garyk | Maybe it is best to start from the beginning | 15:05 |
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| MikeSpreitzer | OK, I'll start from the beginning. | 15:05 |
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| garyk | Great | 15:06 |
| MikeSpreitzer | I am interested in holistic scheduling. By that I mean the idea of a scheduler that can look at a whole template/pattern/topology and make a joint decision about all the resources in it. | 15:06 |
| MikeSpreitzer | I do not mean that this thing *has* to make all the decisions, but it should have the opportunity. | 15:06 |
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| MikeSpreitzer | I mean a richer notion of pattern than CFN has today. | 15:06 |
| MikeSpreitzer | A pattern should have internal grouping, with various sorts of policy and relationship statements attached. | 15:07 |
| garyk | I agree with the fact that the scheduler should have a complete picture of all of the resources | 15:07 |
| MikeSpreitzer | (that's the response to Zane's main complaint. This richer information gives the holistic scheduler information to use, rather than requiring mind reading) | 15:07 |
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| MikeSpreitzer | Not sure how much you want to hear about what my group has working, so I'll go on for now. | 15:08 |
| garyk | MikeSpreitzer: Gilad an I tried to brach this with the VM ensembles. | 15:08 |
| garyk | MikeSpreitzer: all ears | 15:08 |
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| MikeSpreitzer | My group is doing stuff like this, but not integrated with heat; our current holistic controller is a client of Nova, Cinder, etc, but slightly extended versions of them to give us the visibility and control we need. | 15:09 |
| MikeSpreitzer | We have worked an example of a template for IBM Connections, which is a complicated set of apps based on our appserver products, and are working examples based on Hadoop. | 15:10 |
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| MikeSpreitzer | Anyway, once the holistic scheduler has made the decisions it is going to, the next step is infrastructure orchestration. | 15:10 |
| MikeSpreitzer | That is the business of invoking the specific resource services to put the decisions already made into effect and pass the remaining bits of the problem along. | 15:11 |
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| MikeSpreitzer | This is the main job of today's heat engine, and I see no reason to use something else for this part. | 15:11 |
| garyk | Can you please explain why it does the orchestration part? | 15:12 |
| MikeSpreitzer | I am also interested in other ways of doing software orchestration. I have colleagues who want to promote a technique that has a non-trivial preparatory stage, and then at runtime in the VMs etc all the dependencies are handled primarily by software running there. | 15:12 |
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| MikeSpreitzer | Garyk: which "it" ? | 15:13 |
| garyk | I can understand that the scheduler should see the entire 'application' that is going to be deployed, but that can be done without integration with heat | 15:13 |
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| MikeSpreitzer | I think it is awkward to have today's heat engine upstream of holistic infrastructure scheduling | 15:13 |
| MikeSpreitzer | today's heat engine breaks a whole template up into individual resource calls and makes those… | 15:14 |
| MikeSpreitzer | Not very natural to pass a whole template downstream from that. | 15:14 |
| garyk | if i understand correct heat has a template. if the template can create logical links 'links' between the entitietis and these passed to the scheduler then it can be seprate | 15:14 |
| MikeSpreitzer | Also, kind of pointless to break up the template before the holistic scheduling. | 15:14 |
| garyk | i think that at the moment heat does things sequentially (i may be wrong here) | 15:15 |
| MikeSpreitzer | Sure, if the scheduler sees all the resources and links, that's what is needed. | 15:15 |
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| MikeSpreitzer | There is no infrastructure orchestration to be done before holistic scheduling, and there *is* infrastructure scheduling to be done after holistic scheduling. | 15:16 |
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| garyk | That was our initial goal with the VM ensembles. We failed to convince people that it was the right way. The piece meal approcah was to us the instance groups | 15:16 |
| MikeSpreitzer | What was the sticking point? | 15:17 |
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| garyk | I think that we did not manage to define the API well enough. | 15:17 |
| garyk | In addition to this there were schedulers being developed for all of the different projects | 15:17 |
| MikeSpreitzer | My group has been using a pretty simple API — with a rich template/pattern/topology language | 15:18 |
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| MikeSpreitzer | Sure, there should be schedulers for smaller scopes. | 15:18 |
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| Yathi | Currently the resources are limited to the individual services (projects), there is definitely a need for some kind of a Global state repository (like how I can explain later about my high-level-vision) | 15:18 |
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| Yathi | this global state repository can feed to any of the services | 15:19 |
| MikeSpreitzer | Yathi: yes, repo as well as decision making. The repo raises Boris' issues, which are relevant to all schedulers. | 15:19 |
| garyk | Yathi: that is very intersting. How would this get the information from the various sources. | 15:19 |
| garyk | MikeSpreitzer: how did you guys address that? | 15:19 |
| MikeSpreitzer | I can tell you how we do it now, but like you guys, we are not satisfied... | 15:20 |
| MikeSpreitzer | I think there is room for improvement here, but it does not change the overall picture. | 15:20 |
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| Yathi | An attempt to get there is started by the blueprint proposed by Boris | 15:20 |
| garyk | hopefully with the community we can improve things :) | 15:20 |
| Yathi | In-memory state | 15:20 |
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| Yathi | https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/+spec/no-db-scheduler | 15:21 |
| MikeSpreitzer | Our current approach is anchored in a database, and not fully built out as we already decided we want. We are also interested in moving to something that is based in memory. This stuff is all a cache, the hard state is in lower layers. | 15:21 |
| garyk | #info https://review.openstack.org/#/c/45867 (this is review mentioned ^) | 15:21 |
| Yathi | yeah that is something that can eventually address getting a global state repository | 15:22 |
| garyk | So we all seem to be aligned int he fact that we need to cache the information locally (in memory) | 15:22 |
| MikeSpreitzer | OK, so let's get back to the reasons for rejection earlier. | 15:22 |
| garyk | I think that one of the major challenges is how this information is shared between the hosts, services and scheduler | 15:23 |
| MikeSpreitzer | I do not see a conflict with the fact that individual services have their own schedulers. What was the problelm? | 15:23 |
| Yathi | I can explain later.. but in my document #info https://docs.google.com/document/d/1IiPI0sfaWb1bdYiMWzAAx0HYR6UqzOan_Utgml5W1HI/edit?pli=1 I try to put together the bits required for a smart resource placement | 15:23 |
| MikeSpreitzer | OTOH, I do see a conflict... | 15:23 |
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| MikeSpreitzer | If you think the only place to put smarts is in an individual service, then that's a conflict. | 15:24 |
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| garyk | MikeSpreitzer: true | 15:25 |
| MikeSpreitzer | But I think we are liking the idea of enabling joint decision-making. | 15:25 |
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| garyk | MikeSpreitzer: i think that there are a number of people who like and support that idea | 15:25 |
| MikeSpreitzer | garyk: enough of my conjecture, can you elaborate on the objection wrt service schedulers? | 15:25 |
| alaski | I'm late to the meeting and just catching up, but I'm very interested in what extra data needed to be exposed from nova/cinder/etc for holistic scheduling and what resource placement control was needed | 15:26 |
| garyk | MikeSpreitzer: it was a tough one. there were people who felt like it was part of heat | 15:26 |
| garyk | our point was that the scheuler needed to see all of the information and heat was not able to do that | 15:27 |
| MikeSpreitzer | alaski: To compute we added visibility into the physical hierarchy, so we can make rack-aware decisions. | 15:27 |
| alaski | I think the sticking point for earlier efforts are partly due to the focus on holistic scheduling before discussing what each service needs to provide and accept | 15:27 |
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| MikeSpreitzer | I think that, at least for private clouds, there is a simple general rule: you may think you are at the top of the heap, but you are not. Enable a smarter client with a bigger view to make decisions. | 15:28 |
| garyk | it is a chance to provide preferential services for applications | 15:29 |
| alaski | right. I've heard very little objection to that, the devil is in the details | 15:29 |
| MikeSpreitzer | Nova today allows its client to direct placement. We added visibility of the physical hierarchy, so a smarter client can decide where VMs go. | 15:29 |
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| MikeSpreitzer | We also worked out a way to abuse Cinder volume types to direct placement. | 15:29 |
| MikeSpreitzer | We are currently cheating on the visibility for Cinder, would prefer that Cinder have a real solution. | 15:30 |
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| MikeSpreitzer | For network, we are moving from something more proprietary to something OpenDaylight based. | 15:30 |
| alaski | so as far as Nove direct placement goes, I'm very much in favor of removing scheduler hints. I want a placement api, but I think it needs to redone with an idea of what we want from it | 15:30 |
| MikeSpreitzer | We currently use a tree-shaped abstraction for network. That is admittedly an serious abstraction, it is an open question how well it will work. | 15:30 |
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| garyk | alaski: the placement api is a good start. the instance groups can be an option? | 15:32 |
| MikeSpreitzer | So the kind of visibility that I think is needed is an abstract statement of the topology and capacity of the physical resources (we tend to use the word "containers",but not to mean LXC, rather as a general term for things that can host virtual resources). | 15:32 |
| garyk | MikeSpreitzer: in a public cloud how much information do you want to provide to the end users? At the end of the day they just want to be guarantted for the service that they are paying for | 15:33 |
| MikeSpreitzer | Yes, it's pretty different in a public cloud. | 15:33 |
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| alaski | garyk: I think instance groups is a good start, but I don't know if it's rich enough to stop there | 15:33 |
| Yathi | I think we are in the common theme for a smarter resource placement, and I would like to present a high-level vision document that I shared.. and connect it to some efforts being undertaken | 15:33 |
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| Yathi | including Instance groups | 15:33 |
| garyk | alaski: agreed. it is very primitive at the moment | 15:33 |
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| garyk | Yathi: agreed. Can you elborate | 15:34 |
| MikeSpreitzer | Yes, I think instance groups falls short of what we need. | 15:34 |
| MikeSpreitzer | There are things to say about public cloud, but I will listen to Yathi first. | 15:34 |
| Yathi | Ok.. the idea is to start with business rules/ policies as stated by tenants - leading to a smart resource placement | 15:34 |
| Yathi | with the help of all the datacenter resources with the help of a global state repository | 15:35 |
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| Yathi | but the main decision making of resource placement to be handled by a smart constraint-based resource placement engine | 15:35 |
| Yathi | this ties and puts together several efforts and blueprints proposed | 15:35 |
| Yathi | the instance groups effort - should evolve to support policies / business rules | 15:36 |
| Yathi | and this should transform to some form of constraints to be used by the decision engine, | 15:36 |
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| Yathi | Boris's efforts of in-memory stuff should evolve to provide a global state repository providing a view of all the resources | 15:37 |
| Yathi | and the new work (for which I added a POC code) - using LP based solver scheduler should handle the decision making | 15:37 |
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| garyk | Yathi: can you please post the link to the code you posted | 15:37 |
| Yathi | the actual orchestration or the placement of the vms can be done using existing mechanisms | 15:38 |
| Yathi | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/46588/ | 15:38 |
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| Yathi | so the general idea is presented in this doc - #link https://docs.google.com/document/d/1IiPI0sfaWb1bdYiMWzAAx0HYR6UqzOan_Utgml5W1HI/edit?pli=1 | 15:38 |
| Yathi | the idea is this should be backward compatible and hence non-disruptive | 15:39 |
| Yathi | works with the current Nova | 15:39 |
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| garyk | my concerns is that we seen to all have great ideas about how to do the backend implementations but the user and admin facing api's are our achilles heal | 15:39 |
| Yathi | using a PULP solver module that I added code for in Nova, that I ran instead of the Filter Scheduler | 15:39 |
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| Yathi | user facing APIs - is the one we should reach a common agreement on | 15:40 |
| alaski | garyk: agreed. In order to get something in there will need to be consensus among the projects, who don't care what makes the placement decisions. They care what they need to expose | 15:40 |
| Yathi | THe instance group blueprint - brought in the concept of policlies | 15:41 |
| alaski | so that needs to be figured out and added to various projects | 15:41 |
| MikeSpreitzer1 | I think the user-facing API can be pretty simple, I think the pattern/template/topology language is where the action is | 15:41 |
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| garyk | alaski: agreed | 15:41 |
| Yathi | that is something we want to evolve to transform to constraints to be used by a solver engine | 15:41 |
| MikeSpreitzer1 | Well, there are APIs at various levels | 15:41 |
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| MikeSpreitzer1 | I think the infrastructure level APIs need to expose sufficient visibility and control; the whole-pattern layers can have simple APIs but need rich pattern language. | 15:42 |
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| garyk | what about the idea that we divide it up into 3 parts: | 15:42 |
| garyk | 1. the user facing apis | 15:42 |
| garyk | 2. the information required from all of the services | 15:42 |
| garyk | 3. backend scheduling | 15:42 |
| Yathi | Garyk if you read my document - this is exactly the three points :) | 15:43 |
| garyk | if we can define the relations ships between these (i guess with api's) | 15:43 |
| Yathi | you read my mind! | 15:43 |
| MikeSpreitzer1 | garyk: which are "user facing" APIs? Which scheduling is the "backend"? | 15:43 |
| garyk | Yathi: i have yet to read it | 15:43 |
| Yathi | ok | 15:43 |
| MikeSpreitzer1 | yathi: I have skimmed it , will review more carefully | 15:43 |
| Yathi | okay it presents a high-level vision of the necessary efforts, relationship to some of the existing proposed blueprints, and then some additional details on the actual DECISION engine - which makes resource placement decisions | 15:44 |
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| Yathi | this is work-in-progress, design-in-progress, and something we want to discuss in detail at the summit also face-to-face | 15:45 |
| Yathi | but it is dependent on other blueprints and hence a big collaborative effort | 15:45 |
| MikeSpreitzer1 | sounds good. BTW, will anybody be around before/after the official summit for informal discussions? | 15:45 |
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| garyk | MikeSpreitzer1: hopefully | 15:45 |
| PaulMurray | how much before or after? | 15:45 |
| PaulMurray | but yes, a bit | 15:46 |
| MikeSpreitzer1 | Not much. | 15:46 |
| Yathi | Please do review and post your feedback, and we can continue the discussion again | 15:46 |
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| garyk | Maybe we could all meet for lunch or breakfast one day to discuss | 15:46 |
| Yathi | that will be a good idea | 15:46 |
| PaulMurray | I would like to be there for that | 15:46 |
| MikeSpreitzer1 | I'm not sure how far this goes before it becomes a process error. | 15:46 |
| garyk | MikeSpreitzer1: not sure i understand | 15:47 |
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| MikeSpreitzer1 | Is there any problem with organizing an extra summit? | 15:47 |
| MikeSpreitzer1 | I'm still new here, learning the rules | 15:47 |
| MikeSpreitzer1 | already made some mistakes, sorry about that | 15:48 |
| PaulMurray | Mike | 15:48 |
| PaulMurray | ooops | 15:48 |
| garyk | At the summit hopefully we'll have a few slots to discuss the scheduling. The PTL will need to allocate time | 15:48 |
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| Yathi | unconference sessions ? | 15:48 |
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| garyk | The last summit russellb gave us a lot of sessions. We met before and aligned the presentations | 15:49 |
| garyk | I think that this time we should also meet before. Syncing it all will be a challenge | 15:49 |
| PaulMurray | If that is the objective it is a good idea | 15:49 |
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| garyk | I just think that it is very important for us to try and make the most of the time that we get. | 15:50 |
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| garyk | Conveying the ideas and getting the communities support is a challenge | 15:50 |
| MikeSpreitzer1 | Yes. But at some point we have to dig into details, that is sometimes necessary to get real agreement. | 15:50 |
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| garyk | MikeSpreitzer1: true. | 15:51 |
| MikeSpreitzer1 | I am a big fan of reading and writing. But time for discussion is needed too. | 15:51 |
| garyk | In the last two summit with Neutron there was great colabortaion for the LBaas and FWaas,. maybe we need to follow the same model | 15:51 |
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| MikeSpreitzer1 | Can you elaborate? | 15:52 |
| garyk | That is, set up a few meetings and get all of our information into a google doc (or etherpad) | 15:52 |
| MikeSpreitzer1 | yes, that sounds good. Good writeup and reading beforehand, detailed discussion. | 15:52 |
| garyk | Then when we can come to summit we can present the details and get inputs from the community | 15:52 |
| garyk | MikeSpreitzer1: exactly | 15:52 |
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| garyk | boris-42: and Yathi: have two implementaions | 15:53 |
| Yathi | Okay I think we have already started some of this process in our etherpad | 15:53 |
| garyk | I still think that we need the documentation to have the idea from A - Z. Then we can slice up the cake/pie | 15:53 |
| Yathi | and we have added some POC code to demo and discuss | 15:53 |
| boris-42 | garyk I will try to find some time | 15:53 |
| boris-42 | garyk to update our docs and ehterpad | 15:53 |
| garyk | http://9gag.com/gag/adN9Mp9 (sorry I could not resist) | 15:53 |
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| MikeSpreitzer1 | the cake is a lie | 15:54 |
| Yathi | funny! | 15:54 |
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| garyk | Does someone want to take the initiative and start to prepare a document for the API's? | 15:54 |
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| MikeSpreitzer1 | garyk: which APIs? (which level)? | 15:55 |
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| garyk | I think the 3 parts - user/admin; information required from service and scheduling engine | 15:55 |
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| MikeSpreitzer1 | I am interested in working on that. | 15:56 |
| MikeSpreitzer1 | Not sure what I can promise, but realize it has to be done long enough before summit to allow careful reading. | 15:56 |
| garyk | MikeSpreitzer1: great. I'd be happy to work with you on that too. I am a bit pressed for time in the coming two weeks, but after that I will have some free cycles | 15:56 |
| Yathi | scheduling engine API part, my code relied upon something existing | 15:56 |
| Yathi | my POC code I mean | 15:57 |
| Yathi | something based on what the FilterScheduler uses | 15:57 |
| garyk | Yathi: cool. | 15:57 |
| garyk | which is good for backward compatibility (and very importnat) | 15:57 |
| Yathi | but this should interface with the new ideas of a "global state repo", and the tenant-faceing APIs | 15:57 |
| garyk | How about we decide next week on how we want to proceed? | 15:57 |
| MikeSpreitzer1 | OK | 15:58 |
| Yathi | sure | 15:58 |
| Yathi | please review the POC code and the doc I shared links on etherpad | 15:58 |
| MikeSpreitzer1 | yep | 15:58 |
| garyk | i'll try. | 15:58 |
| Yathi | POC code doesn't pass unit-tests because of the dependency to PULP | 15:58 |
| Yathi | I will need to figure out how to make them pass | 15:59 |
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| Yathi | not for discussino in this forum sorry | 15:59 |
| garyk | so i guess that we'll meet next week. | 15:59 |
| garyk | thanks guys | 15:59 |
| garyk | #endmeeting | 15:59 |
| MikeSpreitzer1 | thank you | 15:59 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 15:59 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Sep 24 15:59:50 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 15:59 |
| alaski | thanks | 15:59 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/scheduling/2013/scheduling.2013-09-24-15.03.html | 15:59 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/scheduling/2013/scheduling.2013-09-24-15.03.txt | 15:59 |
| Yathi | thanks | 15:59 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/scheduling/2013/scheduling.2013-09-24-15.03.log.html | 15:59 |
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| primeministerp | #startmeeting hyper-v | 16:03 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Sep 24 16:03:29 2013 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is primeministerp. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 16:03 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 16:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: hyper-v)" | 16:03 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'hyper_v' | 16:03 |
| primeministerp | hi everyone | 16:03 |
| primeministerp | not sure if everyone is going to be able to join today, let's a wait a couple more minutes jic | 16:04 |
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| primeministerp | pnavarro: hmm, not sure if we're going to have a meeting. Don't think the othe's will be coming | 16:06 |
| primeministerp | pnavarro: I only had stuff to talk w/ luis | 16:06 |
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| primeministerp | pnavarro: and wanted to see who was attending the summit | 16:06 |
| zehicle_at_dell | ok | 16:07 |
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| pnavarro | ok, no problem | 16:07 |
| primeministerp | zehicle_at_dell: anything you need to discuss? | 16:07 |
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| zehicle_at_dell | Congrats to SUSE for launching Grizzly + HyperV! http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/suse-support-for-microsoft-hyper-v-expands-options-for-mixed-hypervisor-clouds-in-enterprise-data-centers-225025542.html | 16:07 |
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| zehicle_at_dell | I know a lot of people on the channel contributed - good work | 16:08 |
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| primeministerp | thanks for the info | 16:08 |
| primeministerp | I hadnt seen that yet | 16:08 |
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| primeministerp | so | 16:09 |
| primeministerp | on thing i'd like to add | 16:09 |
| primeministerp | we've created an offical github group for the ms effort | 16:09 |
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| primeministerp | it will be the point of reference for the work we are doing | 16:10 |
| primeministerp | it can be found here | 16:10 |
| primeministerp | #link https://github.com/openstack-hyper-v | 16:10 |
| primeministerp | so that's about all i have | 16:11 |
| primeministerp | zehicle_at_dell: thanks for the link | 16:11 |
| primeministerp | we'll continue next week | 16:11 |
| pnavarro | zehicle_at_dell, the hyperv barclamps are publicly available? | 16:11 |
| primeministerp | #endmeeting | 16:11 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 16:11 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Sep 24 16:11:31 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 16:11 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/hyper_v/2013/hyper_v.2013-09-24-16.03.html | 16:11 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/hyper_v/2013/hyper_v.2013-09-24-16.03.txt | 16:11 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/hyper_v/2013/hyper_v.2013-09-24-16.03.log.html | 16:11 |
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| zehicle_at_dell | yes, they are integrated into the base product | 16:11 |
| zehicle_at_dell | http://crowbar.github.io | 16:11 |
| pnavarro | ok, thanks | 16:12 |
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| zehicle_at_dell | how's the hanava pull backlog? | 16:16 |
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| * ayoung occupies the assembly area for the Keystone meeting | 17:54 | |
| bknudson | we'll just hang out | 17:55 |
| * ayoung pulls security | 17:56 | |
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| stevemar | o/ | 17:58 |
| stevemar | ayoung, quit taking up all the room | 17:58 |
| * lbragstad takes a seat in the corner | 17:59 | |
| * ayoung scans his sector | 17:59 | |
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| * stevemar sits in the back | 17:59 | |
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| ayoung | Lets do this | 17:59 |
| * morganfainberg sneaks in the side door. | 18:00 | |
| * dolphm moves all the chairs to face stevemar | 18:00 | |
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| dolphm | #startmeeting keystone | 18:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Sep 24 18:00:22 2013 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is dolphm. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 18:00 |
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| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 18:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'keystone' | 18:00 |
| gyee | \0 | 18:00 |
| fabiog | hi | 18:00 |
| dolphm | #topic havana-rc1 | 18:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "havana-rc1 (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:00 | |
| ayoung | Oyez | 18:00 |
| dolphm | #announcement SO CLOSE | 18:00 |
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| dolphm | YAY | 18:00 |
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| dolphm | fyi, you can see every project's progress on http://old-wiki.openstack.org/rc/ | 18:01 |
| ayoung | #link https://launchpad.net/keystone/+milestone/havana-rc1 | 18:01 |
| henrynash | hi | 18:01 |
| morganfainberg | woot. | 18:01 |
| stevemar | just 3 bugs left? | 18:01 |
| dolphm | just 3 | 18:01 |
| topol | hi | 18:01 |
| stevemar | yay | 18:01 |
| ayoung | 4 with the one that dolphm just triaged | 18:01 |
| morganfainberg | and isn't one gating now? | 18:01 |
| stevemar | nooo | 18:01 |
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| morganfainberg | or ready to | 18:01 |
| dolphm | ayoung: well, that's already in progress, but we're waiting on upstream changes to openstack/requirements | 18:01 |
| ayoung | nice | 18:02 |
| dolphm | so, i guess let's run through every bug for status | 18:02 |
| dolphm | bug 1182861 | 18:02 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1182861 in trove "Switch to oslo.config 1.2.0 final" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1182861 | 18:02 |
| henrynash | morganfainberg: iep, mine is gatting | 18:02 |
| henrynash | (yep) | 18:02 |
| dolphm | in progress in keystone, requires an upstream changes to openstack/requirements | 18:02 |
| dolphm | i think that'll be trivial | 18:02 |
| dolphm | bug 1153645 | 18:02 |
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| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1153645 in keystone "Deleting a role should revoke any tokens associated with it" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1153645 | 18:02 |
| dolphm | gating now! | 18:02 |
| morganfainberg | yay! | 18:02 |
| dolphm | bug 1210515 | 18:03 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1210515 in keystone "keystone chokes on empty "description" field in active directory" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1210515 | 18:03 |
| ayoung | chmouel, can you hit the changes to ^^ | 18:03 |
| ayoung | should be trivial | 18:03 |
| dolphm | looks like brant had a couple nits, but as far as i can tell, this is really close | 18:03 |
| ayoung | dolphm, the order of checks should be fixed | 18:03 |
| bknudson | we shouldn't be allowing adding an immutable attribute | 18:03 |
| dolphm | ayoung: ahh, i glossed over that comment | 18:03 |
| bknudson | I had made the same comment on previous patch set | 18:04 |
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| chmouel | oh yeah i messed the ordering | 18:04 |
| chmouel | tks | 18:04 |
| bknudson | I wouldn't -1 for missing ' in didn't | 18:04 |
| dolphm | chmouel: thank you! | 18:04 |
| ayoung | chmouel, ping when done | 18:05 |
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| chmouel | yep will do | 18:05 |
| dolphm | bknudson: yes you would ;) | 18:05 |
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| bknudson | I'd -2 | 18:05 |
| chmouel | i was writting some additional tests for that but i think someone did | 18:05 |
| stevemar | haha | 18:05 |
| chmouel | hehh | 18:05 |
| dolphm | chmouel: dstanek wrote a few in a dependent patch, but i haven't reviewed yet | 18:05 |
| dolphm | aaand... | 18:05 |
| dolphm | bug 1221889 | 18:05 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1221889 in keystone "Invalid X-Subject-Token results in HTTP 401 rather than 404" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1221889 | 18:05 |
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| dstanek | i have two patches with tests and a third that i'm trying to get to pass | 18:06 |
| ayoung | morganfainberg, can you explain your comment https://bugs.launchpad.net/keystone/+bug/1221889/comments/7 | 18:06 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1221889 in keystone "Invalid X-Subject-Token results in HTTP 401 rather than 404" [High,In progress] | 18:06 |
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| morganfainberg | ayoung, the tempest change to allow the test to continue has been merged. once we get this bug in, there is another tempest change needed to un-skip and change expected http status to 404 | 18:06 |
| dolphm | the fix for this one has been slow because it's dependent on changes to oslo and tempest first | 18:07 |
| dolphm | now we need to sync up keystone policy with oslo policy | 18:07 |
| dolphm | considering we extend oslo policy, i'm paranoid we'll see breakage there | 18:07 |
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| lbragstad | dolphm: yeah.. | 18:07 |
| gyee | oslo changes is in | 18:07 |
| dolphm | gyee: ++ | 18:07 |
| lbragstad | I think they changed stuff to be oo | 18:07 |
| ayoung | lets get lots of eyes on that review | 18:07 |
| dolphm | but not synced over to keystone | 18:07 |
| dolphm | ayoung: ++ | 18:07 |
| morganfainberg | ayoung, i was responding to dolph's comment. | 18:07 |
| gyee | dolphm, I'll take a look at that one | 18:07 |
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| atiwari | but the oslo's version of policy is way different than Keystone | 18:07 |
| dolphm | gyee: thanks | 18:08 |
| dolphm | for anyone that has free time, this is definitely the most complex patch of what we have left | 18:08 |
| bknudson | we probably haven't merged oslo policy for a while... | 18:08 |
| dolphm | bknudson: we haven't | 18:08 |
| dolphm | bknudson: in a looong while | 18:08 |
| gyee | time to roll the dice :) | 18:08 |
| henrynash | dolphm: well, not since the end of Grizzly | 18:08 |
| stevemar | eek | 18:08 |
| gyee | stevemar, oh comon, live a little | 18:09 |
| dolphm | henrynash: i was about to say, i think you were the last to do so | 18:09 |
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| morganfainberg | hehe | 18:09 |
| lbragstad | I hit that on the sync for notifier on accident, a lot of the new stuff in oslo's policy is object oriented, its gonna take a bit a refactoring in Keystone | 18:09 |
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| jamielennox | why isn't it synced at the same time we do the rest of an oslo sync? | 18:09 |
| henrynash | dolphm: guilty, as charged….although not sure it was actually in oslo at that point | 18:09 |
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| ayoung | is this going to conflict with henrynash 's changes for entity level policy rules? | 18:10 |
| henrynash | ayoung: I don't see why it should…as long as they haven't reduced the capability of the engine | 18:10 |
| ayoung | so...question is do we really want to sync now...or can we delay until Icehouse 1. What is in Oslo that we need? | 18:10 |
| gyee | ayoung, have faith in our tests :) | 18:11 |
| morganfainberg | ayoung, honestly, if we can avoid syncing till Icehouse1, i'd vote that. | 18:11 |
| jamielennox | gyee, jk? | 18:11 |
| henrynash | ayoung: I never changed the engine…. | 18:11 |
| * topol my scaredy cat anture says wait till Icehouse 1 | 18:11 | |
| bknudson | the tests for oslo-incubator are in oslo... do we have our own tests for oslo stuff? | 18:11 |
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| atiwari | I think sooner is better otherwise two will deviate a bit | 18:11 |
| ayoung | we don't have a review for the sync yet, do we? | 18:11 |
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| morganfainberg | ayoung, not that i see | 18:12 |
| dolphm | so for reference, a full sync to oslo right now would look like this- http://pasteraw.com/h7q6rihq5hhtsz3q478ogtjxtveyeyj | 18:12 |
| gyee | oh shit | 18:12 |
| dolphm | and that causes new test failures | 18:12 |
| ayoung | dolphm, can you WIP that review? | 18:12 |
| dolphm | ayoung: sure | 18:12 |
| topol | that looks harmless :-) | 18:12 |
| morganfainberg | that actually doesn't look as bad as i'd expect | 18:13 |
| ayoung | so.. lots of locale and language stuff... | 18:13 |
| dolphm | full sync to oslo: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/48111/ | 18:13 |
| jamielennox | most of that is fairly simple | 18:13 |
| dolphm | policy is +274, -196 | 18:13 |
| dolphm | and imports fileutils, jsonutils and common logging | 18:14 |
| topol | isnt policy tricky enough that there maybe uintended consequences??? | 18:14 |
| dolphm | and oslo.config, of course | 18:14 |
| gyee | those ain't that bad | 18:14 |
| dolphm | topol: yep | 18:14 |
| bknudson | policy has new config options, so would need to update sample config too | 18:15 |
| ayoung | policy looks relativly minimal. We are one change ahead of their GenericCHeck, the rest looks like they have made an object that gets replaced for refreshing rules | 18:15 |
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| topol | whats the sense of urgency to do this now as opposed to when there is more runway to fix stuff? | 18:16 |
| dolphm | on the upside, the entire test suite takes like 2 minutes now | 18:16 |
| dolphm | mostly because they all fail | 18:16 |
| morganfainberg | hehe | 18:16 |
| jamielennox | it introduces a new exception that would need to be plumbed | 18:16 |
| dolphm | DuplicateOptError: duplicate option: policy_file http://pasteraw.com/sqlxfrvg4mh7gf9wkzy797v8kgw4ypq | 18:17 |
| ayoung | so..the argument for fixing this now is that if thereis a CVE in icehouse, we can replace the coder in all projects at once | 18:17 |
| ayoung | a CVE in oslo code, that is | 18:17 |
| ayoung | replace the code...the coder will likely have already been replaced.... | 18:18 |
| dolphm | topol: this change is currently a release blocker (that could be changed, as i see this as a *very* compelling nice-to-have) https://review.openstack.org/#/c/46123/ | 18:18 |
| dolphm | topol: which is currently dependent on a recent change to oslo policy due to the change made in etc/policy.v3cloudsample.json | 18:18 |
| dolphm | and how that should be handled in keystone to support this use case | 18:18 |
| gyee | dolphm, topol, we'll have to fix it one way or the other as API spec says 404 should be returned | 18:19 |
| morganfainberg | gyee, ++ | 18:19 |
| dolphm | so, we either need an alternative solution to the policy.json change, or we need to sync oslo to make the proposed change work | 18:19 |
| gyee | so its really the cost of backporting we are considering here | 18:19 |
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| bknudson | or make whatever changes are required to fix to our policy.py and then get full policy in icehouse | 18:20 |
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| gyee | yes, we'll have to sync policy, eventually | 18:20 |
| dolphm | bknudson: you mean carry some fork of common policy? :( | 18:20 |
| topol | well if you have folks who feel they can contain it and its impact sounds cool to have... | 18:20 |
| gyee | again, cost of backporting versus the cost of delaying the RC1 release | 18:21 |
| bknudson | dolphm: yes :( | 18:21 |
| jamielennox | i'd like to see a new & old client ran against that | 18:21 |
| morganfainberg | dolphm, maybe sync policy icehouse 1, tag for backport? | 18:21 |
| ayoung | morganfainberg, +1 | 18:21 |
| morganfainberg | doesn't delay RC, and gives us a longer runway to hit bugs. | 18:21 |
| topol | morganfainberg +1. thats brilliant | 18:21 |
| jamielennox | morganfainberg, +1 | 18:22 |
| stevemar | morganfainberg, thinking things through :P | 18:22 |
| dolphm | morganfainberg: you don't see it as backporting features via oslo? | 18:22 |
| bknudson | typically don't backport config changes. | 18:22 |
| morganfainberg | bknudson, fair enough. but this might be worthwhile doing in this case. | 18:22 |
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| ayoung | dolphm, We would probably want to get our change to GenericCHeck merged into Oslo 1st anyway | 18:23 |
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| ayoung | otherwise we are not really in sync | 18:23 |
| dolphm | ayoung: ? i thought that merged | 18:23 |
| ayoung | dolphm, don't see it in your review | 18:23 |
| bknudson | we've already got a fork of poicy? | 18:23 |
| dolphm | ayoung: ? is that not the try catch on line 848 https://review.openstack.org/#/c/48111/1/keystone/openstack/common/policy.py | 18:23 |
| dolphm | bknudson: in review, not in master | 18:24 |
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| ayoung | dolphm, duh, yes it is...I was reading it backwards. I was thinking we had applied that change to our repo. | 18:24 |
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| dolphm | ayoung: *whew* i thought i was crazy for a minute | 18:25 |
| * dolphm but thankfully it's just you | 18:25 | |
| dolphm | :) | 18:25 |
| dolphm | ayoung: it's proposed here (and the reason for my -1) but not merged https://review.openstack.org/#/c/46123/11/keystone/openstack/common/policy.py | 18:26 |
| atiwari | dolphm, if you are taking about https://review.openstack.org/#/c/46589/, I think it is in master now. | 18:26 |
| ayoung | dolphm, just cuz we know I'm crazy doesn't mean that you aren't. You are just less crazy than me: you really need a higher bar than that. | 18:26 |
| dolphm | ayoung: now you're being too logical | 18:26 |
| gyee | heh | 18:27 |
| topol | Im sure in Hong Kong we can find interesting food options and we can really see who is crazy... | 18:27 |
| dolphm | atiwari: in oslo master, yes... but not keystone.common | 18:27 |
| dolphm | topol: ++++ | 18:27 |
| dolphm | i'm in | 18:27 |
| morganfainberg | topol, should be fun. | 18:27 |
| atiwari | ok | 18:27 |
| dolphm | chicken feet was new for me not that long ago | 18:27 |
| ayoung | topol, but gyee has a serious advantage in that he knows what the waiters will be saying. | 18:28 |
| gyee | atiwari, we just need to leave that one out as oslo sync is in a separate review | 18:28 |
| gyee | ayoung, I'll make sure I translate "properly" | 18:28 |
| topol | yes. yes he does. | 18:28 |
| ayoung | gyee, I'm sure you will | 18:28 |
| morganfainberg | I'll be worries when gyee's translation is "there is no word for it in english, but… it's good, just eat it" | 18:29 |
| gyee | ha! | 18:29 |
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| atiwari | :) | 18:29 |
| gyee | atiwari, so just make your review a dependent of dolphm's | 18:29 |
| fabiog | right, or when he will say, it is like chicken nuggets :-) | 18:29 |
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| morganfainberg | sounds like sync for RC it is then, gyee ? | 18:30 |
| atiwari | gyee, OK | 18:30 |
| ayoung | what is the official Keystone stance on etc/policy.v3cloudsample.json ? Is that going to be the default approach to policy moving forward? | 18:30 |
| dolphm | gyee: except the full oslo sync is failing tests | 18:30 |
| gyee | I think we should fix it as it impacts API spec | 18:30 |
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| ayoung | cuz I like it a lot better than the default policy.json. I would like to see the tests run against that. | 18:31 |
| morganfainberg | ayoung, + | 18:31 |
| morganfainberg | + | 18:31 |
| ayoung | henrynash, nice work on that, BTW | 18:31 |
| henrynash | ayoung: thx | 18:31 |
| gyee | dolphm, lets fix the tests first | 18:31 |
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| ayoung | gyee, I'm going to try and splitting the sync, to see what happens if we sync only the policy.py file first | 18:32 |
| henrynash | ayoung: fyi, there are a set of tests already that run against it….but only as a specific unit test | 18:32 |
| gyee | ayoung, lets do this | 18:32 |
| ayoung | henrynash, yeah...understood. And we can't just blindly swap over to it, as that will break all the current deployments out there | 18:33 |
| dolphm | #topic open discussion | 18:33 |
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| ayoung | So.. policy | 18:33 |
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| ayoung | should we absorbe the policy code into Keystone again | 18:33 |
| ayoung | and if so, does it go into keystone client | 18:33 |
| ayoung | or should be make it a standalone library | 18:33 |
| bknudson | there was a comment on the mailing list that they wanted middleware out of keystoneclient | 18:33 |
| ayoung | bknudson, or should we make a keystonemiddleware project | 18:34 |
| morganfainberg | ayoung, we probably should do that | 18:34 |
| bknudson | how does the standalone library work? it would be treated more like keystoneclient? | 18:34 |
| gyee | middleware should stay with keystone client | 18:34 |
| bknudson | or is it released like keystone? | 18:34 |
| gyee | too much of a dependency | 18:34 |
| morganfainberg | standalone library that is. | 18:34 |
| morganfainberg | (policy) | 18:34 |
| bknudson | what's the dependency between keystoneclient and middleware? | 18:34 |
| ayoung | I would not mind seeing something like python-openstackmiddleware python-openstackpolicy and python-libkeystone | 18:34 |
| morganfainberg | ayoung, ++ (not oslo.policy?) | 18:35 |
| gyee | auth_token will be using keystoneclient's requests part | 18:35 |
| gyee | bind token check | 18:35 |
| gyee | cms | 18:35 |
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| gyee | pluggable auth for admin token request, etc, etc | 18:36 |
| bknudson | we'd have to duplicate cms again. | 18:36 |
| bknudson | that would be bad | 18:36 |
| gyee | what's the convincing argument for split it out? | 18:36 |
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| morganfainberg | short of moving cms into a (similarly) common library, it would be silly to duplicate it again | 18:36 |
| jamielennox | gyee actually there is no dependency on client from auth_token | 18:36 |
| ayoung | morganfainberg, the policy rules are tightly coupled with the token implementation. The generic policy engine is more general purpose. I don't care about the naming, but I would like to have the policy available as a reusable component | 18:36 |
| jamielennox | there should be... | 18:36 |
| gyee | jamielennox, thought you are going to make to fix for using requests lib for everything? | 18:37 |
| ayoung | libkeystone should be for code common to server and client | 18:37 |
| ayoung | gyee, he is... | 18:37 |
| dolphm | what's the argument in favor of splitting middleware out of keystoneclient? | 18:37 |
| jamielennox | yea, requests has happened, but it doesn't use the client's requests path it's got its own | 18:37 |
| morganfainberg | ayoung, I think policy probably does not belong in keystoneclient. but i think it should absolutely be moved into it's own library (and i don't think it would be improper to be handled by keystone to maintain it, but that is a separate argument) | 18:38 |
| gyee | jamielennox, thought you are going to do that next as we are currently duplicating code | 18:38 |
| dolphm | bknudson: there should be a stronger dependency there, i know it's on jamielennox's wishlist as well as mine to rewrite auth_token to use the regular old keystoneclient ... http client | 18:38 |
| jamielennox | dolphm: the best one i've heard is being able to release auth_token without having to do a full release of the client code | 18:38 |
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| gyee | jamielennox, that's not a convincing argument :) | 18:38 |
| jamielennox | there are reasons that auth_token should not be pegged to the current minimum required version of keystoneclient which i think is still 0.2.1 | 18:39 |
| dolphm | jamielennox: that a weak argument, without an example of a specific reason why you'd want to do one without the other | 18:39 |
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| dolphm | jamielennox: 0.2.1 according to who? | 18:39 |
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| jamielennox | whoa, this isn't my push... | 18:39 |
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| ayoung | dolphm, I suspect it is just whinging from people that have pegged their client dependencies to a low version... | 18:39 |
| ayoung | we had some tempest/gate breakage due to that and incompatbile client versions | 18:39 |
| gyee | ayoung, one line chef change :) | 18:39 |
| morganfainberg | ayoung, and that isn't solved with spliting it. they'd just pin the middleware too :P | 18:39 |
| ayoung | heh | 18:40 |
| jamielennox | apologies it's been updated to 0.3.2 - i ddidn't know that | 18:40 |
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| dolphm | ayoung: that's why we mandate minimum client versions, but not to pin them to a max | 18:40 |
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| jamielennox | gyee, and it is definitely on my todo list | 18:41 |
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| ayoung | morganfainberg, so...I don't really havea burning reason to split them, rather it is more from a cleanliness perspective. If I am doing CLI operations, I don't need middleware, and if I am runnign a service, I don't need CLI. There is no real reson to split them, other than they pull in other package dependencies that may not be appropriate in all situations | 18:41 |
| morganfainberg | ayoung, agreed. | 18:41 |
| ayoung | auth_token middleware is differnt from the client in that it is priamrily a token consumer | 18:41 |
| ayoung | CLI is p[rimarily a token requestor | 18:41 |
| gyee | speaking of which, can somebody take a look at https://review.openstack.org/#/c/47661/ | 18:41 |
| bknudson | CLI in keystoneclient is deprecated. | 18:42 |
| gyee | I sorta leave the door open for pluggable auth for admin token request | 18:42 |
| ayoung | now, auth_token does request tokens for some usages, but that almost seems gratuitous | 18:42 |
| bknudson | or, to be deprecated | 18:42 |
| morganfainberg | ayoung, if we had say, libkeystone i could see auth_token being split logically. | 18:42 |
| ayoung | you should not have to ask Keystone for a token in order to to a keystone based operation | 18:42 |
| morganfainberg | but right now, we're still cli+libkeystone | 18:42 |
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| morganfainberg | this might be worth reconsidering when openstackclient is ready to go? | 18:42 |
| bknudson | use the admin token | 18:43 |
| jamielennox | gyee, any chance that we can just do that base on admin_password == None for now rather than a new config option? | 18:43 |
| ayoung | I don't see any real problem with splitting a growing project into more granular packages. | 18:43 |
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| gyee | jamielennox, but that's a hack, I rather do this properly | 18:43 |
| morganfainberg | ayoung, don't get me wrong, i'm infavor of more granular development. | 18:43 |
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| jamielennox | i'm thinking the issue will go away if we can get the APIClient stuff in and then move that into auth_token | 18:44 |
| morganfainberg | ayoung, but we might have bigger fish to fry until a bit later on. | 18:44 |
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| ayoung | morganfainberg, so the question is: what should the layout be? | 18:44 |
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| morganfainberg | ayoung, that is a valid question | 18:44 |
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| dolphm | p.s. i thought of an interesting use case the other day for not deprecating keystoneclient's CLI that no one here probably cares about | 18:44 |
| jamielennox | gyee, also the admin_token is required for fetching a revocation list - which is required for PKI operations as well, so we do kind of still need it around | 18:45 |
| ayoung | If we assume that the typical usage is client on one machine, server on a second, and auth_token on a third...and we only want to put code essential to those operations on each machine, I think the layout becomes clear | 18:45 |
| topol | dolphm, do tell | 18:45 |
| morganfainberg | dolphm, ok i'll bite, share :) | 18:45 |
| dolphm | "I want to deploy keystone for use with not-openstack, so I don't want to use python-openstackclient to interact with keystone on the CLI." | 18:45 |
| gyee | jamielennox, I basically make it optional | 18:46 |
| ayoung | libkeystone gets common functionality, but is only usable when called from python. auth_token gets a reduced role to call into the library for its operations. CLI can be replaced with the common CLI without disrupting or dual deploying | 18:46 |
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| topol | hmmm. sounds like heresy | 18:46 |
| bknudson | I hope openstackclient would be pluggable, so you could only plug-in keystone function | 18:46 |
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| bknudson | we'll need to update keystone CLI for V3 | 18:46 |
| morganfainberg | dolphm, actually, good point. my friend is looking ot use keystone for a non-openstack project. | 18:47 |
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| gyee | bknudson, ++ | 18:47 |
| dolphm | every now and then someone will be interested with deploying keystone as a standalone authn/z service for something totally unrelated to openstack | 18:47 |
| dolphm | i've never heard of anyone actually doing it | 18:47 |
| ayoung | dolphm, actually, I've had a request for that. And then I pointed out that they were a Java based project and Keystone was python. I politely suggested they look into Jython and never heard back from them | 18:47 |
| topol | oh no its spreading | 18:47 |
| morganfainberg | dolphm, it's likely going to happen in a month or two for sure (was talking about this last night) | 18:47 |
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| dolphm | ayoung: lol | 18:47 |
| dolphm | morganfainberg: let me know when it happens :) | 18:48 |
| morganfainberg | dolphm, for sure. | 18:48 |
| dolphm | this is just a theoretical, and it's not a strong argument for NOT using openstackclient, but i've heard similar "but i don't want to use completely-useful-thing X just because it's called X" | 18:48 |
| bknudson | Looks like change for bug 1201251 is ready. | 18:49 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1201251 in keystone "issues of updating user via keystone rest api" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1201251 | 18:49 |
| ayoung | dolphm, so...keystone is really two things now. One is a very limited IdP. The other is that it is an authorization mapping service. I think it is this second role that people want to tie in with. As such, all of the discussion around Federation becomes much more interesting | 18:49 |
| ayoung | I've started a Q&A around Federation on the old federation etherpad, and dchadwick has answered some questions on it today | 18:49 |
| bknudson | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/42826/ Add user to project if project ID is changed | 18:49 |
| gyee | ayoung, link? | 18:49 |
| dolphm | ayoung: i'd argue that we've always been that, and both sides of our authn + authz abilities have expanded quite a bit | 18:49 |
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| stevemar | https://etherpad.openstack.org/keystone-federation | 18:50 |
| stevemar | gyee ^ | 18:50 |
| topol | we have stuff for the new federation etherpad when it becomes avail | 18:50 |
| bknudson | still can't require a password to change every 6 months with sql | 18:50 |
| gyee | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/keystone-federation | 18:50 |
| morganfainberg | bknudson, i'll look at that review as soon as we're done here. (1201251) | 18:50 |
| stevemar | topol, i'm going to add to it now | 18:50 |
| bknudson | still can't require certain chars in password, can't lock out users after bad attempts | 18:50 |
| topol | Thanks stevemar | 18:50 |
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| gyee | meetbot working? | 18:50 |
| ayoung | lets try to keep that page somewhat oragnized, so we can use it as the basis for making decisions around Federation based features | 18:51 |
| gyee | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/keystone-federation | 18:51 |
| stevemar | hmm #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/keystone-federation | 18:51 |
| gyee | wtf? | 18:51 |
| morganfainberg | gyee, meetbot has been odd lately | 18:51 |
| ayoung | gyee, probably og picked up, | 18:51 |
| ayoung | it doesn't tell you on all successful operations | 18:51 |
| gyee | k | 18:51 |
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| stevemar | oh, is this going in: #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/46363/ | 18:52 |
| morganfainberg | did we want to get the optional dep stuff in for Havana? | 18:52 |
| stevemar | i thouht we did? | 18:52 |
| stevemar | thought | 18:53 |
| ayoung | so, it sounds like the three main approaches to Identity are going to be LDAP for corporate, SQL for a self contained deployment, and SAML for communicating with a remote IdP. OAuth is very SAML like. The old mapping blueprint/backend is proably best thought of as an extension to the identity bakcend: I got it in form X, here it is as a userid or as a group. | 18:53 |
| stevemar | dolphm ? ^ | 18:53 |
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| bknudson | the oauth dependency was a problem for some packagers. | 18:53 |
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| morganfainberg | bknudson, ok, i'll look at that one as well when we are done here | 18:53 |
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| dolphm | sorry, was looking back to check on meetbot | 18:53 |
| ayoung | stevemar, thanks for brining that up. I'd like it to go in. Even if it is a short lived feature, | 18:54 |
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| topol | why shortlived? | 18:54 |
| stevemar | yeah, i think it went by the way side for a little | 18:54 |
| ayoung | I'd like to Keep keystone from pulling in the Oauth dependency at the package level | 18:54 |
| dolphm | ayoung: stevemar: that's a good breakdown | 18:54 |
| ayoung | topol, because, as the comment suggests, it is backwards | 18:54 |
| topol | didnt see that. thanks | 18:54 |
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| ayoung | topol, I've been thinking that the token provider should be a pipeline for some time now...suggested it back when gyee did the origianl -plugability stuff. | 18:55 |
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| ayoung | We want to be able to inject or extract something like OAuth in to the larger workflow | 18:55 |
| morganfainberg | ayoung ++ | 18:55 |
| ayoung | something built out of tree, say | 18:55 |
| topol | that sounds cool | 18:56 |
| ayoung | without having to change core Keystone to support it | 18:56 |
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| dolphm | ayoung: thankfully we have the WSGI pipeline to do exactly that :) | 18:57 |
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| ayoung | topol, and the paste code supports that kind of pipeline, but we don't have time to do it completely for Havana. So I would say, do option dependencies for Havana, and use that to insule the oauth changes. Then, we can pipeline up token creation later. | 18:57 |
| dolphm | ayoung: we just have to take better advantage of it | 18:57 |
| stevemar | dolphm, ayoung, if that stuff is going in, we should give the bug an rc1 tag | 18:57 |
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| morganfainberg | dolphm, ayoung , henrynash: last question while we have people here. the domain_scope cleanup. should I even try to get that ready for RC timeline? or did we just want to mothball it until I-1? i think it's got a lot of pitfalls we can't address even in cleanup until Icehouse 1 | 18:57 |
| ayoung | dolphm, yes, exactly | 18:57 |
| ayoung | dolphm, I want to make better use of that across the board. | 18:57 |
| topol | ayoung ++ | 18:57 |
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| * dolphm hugs ayoung | 18:57 | |
| gyee | lets do this | 18:57 |
| dstanek | i'm not fond of the optional dependencies as implemented. it feels like a bandaid | 18:58 |
| ayoung | dolphm, for instance, we should not be explicitly starting each of the managers in service.py. They should be activated by their inclusing in the pipeline, like the extensions are. | 18:58 |
| dolphm | dstanek: it very much is a bandaid | 18:58 |
| dolphm | dstanek: post comments on the review! | 18:58 |
| dolphm | #endmeeting | 18:58 |
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| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 18:58 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Sep 24 18:58:25 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 18:58 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2013/keystone.2013-09-24-18.00.html | 18:58 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2013/keystone.2013-09-24-18.00.txt | 18:58 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2013/keystone.2013-09-24-18.00.log.html | 18:58 |
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| dstanek | dolphm: already did :-) | 18:59 |
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| jeblair | infra folks around? | 18:59 |
| mordred | o/ | 18:59 |
| pleia2 | o/ | 19:00 |
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| krtaylor | o/ | 19:00 |
| anteaya | o/ | 19:00 |
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| UtahDave | o/ | 19:00 |
| fungi | howdy | 19:00 |
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| jeblair | #startmeeting infra | 19:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Sep 24 19:00:46 2013 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is jeblair. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 19:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 19:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:00 | |
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| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'infra' | 19:00 |
| jeblair | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/InfraTeamMeeting | 19:00 |
| jeblair | packed agenda | 19:01 |
| jeblair | #topic Actions from last meeting | 19:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Actions from last meeting (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:01 | |
| jeblair | #link http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2013/infra.2013-09-10-19.01.html | 19:01 |
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| jeblair | fungi, clarkb: you moved marconi? | 19:01 |
| * mordred confirms that marconi was moved | 19:01 | |
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| clarkb | we did | 19:01 |
| fungi | yup | 19:01 |
| fungi | mordred was there as well | 19:02 |
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| zaro | o/ | 19:02 |
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| jeblair | cool. anything we should know about that? | 19:02 |
| mordred | (and after that noticed a couple of things that they used that were not in our mirror :) ) | 19:02 |
| clarkb | I think the only hiccup was that we need to be patient with cgit to pick up the move | 19:02 |
| clarkb | it will eventually notice once puppet has the new stuff and runs on the git servers | 19:02 |
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| * mordred had thoughts of a salt-related manage-projects that can do the triggering/sequencing. | 19:02 | |
| * mordred will not work on that soon | 19:02 | |
| jeblair | mordred: ++, also just having salt run puppet will help a bit. | 19:02 |
| mordred | yah | 19:03 |
| jeblair | since this was an action item, i'll jump to it: | 19:03 |
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| jeblair | #topic Asterisk server (jeblair, pabelanger, russelb) | 19:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Asterisk server (jeblair, pabelanger, russelb) (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:03 | |
| jeblair | i did send an email | 19:03 |
| russellb | hi | 19:03 |
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| jeblair | it looks like we're good to tweak some parameters on friday at 1700 utc | 19:03 |
| jeblair | hopefully we'll end up with a config we like on our current server... | 19:04 |
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| jeblair | or if not, we can use one of the other servers or disable silence detection | 19:04 |
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| jeblair | if some folks could be around then for that testing, that would be great | 19:05 |
| * clarkb will be around | 19:05 | |
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| pleia2 | sure thing | 19:05 |
| * anteaya should be around then | 19:05 | |
| jeblair | cool, thanks. anything else on this? | 19:05 |
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| * zaro will be around | 19:05 | |
| * fungi too | 19:05 | |
| jeblair | #topic Backups (clarkb) | 19:06 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Backups (clarkb) (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:06 | |
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| jeblair | clarkb: how's that goin? | 19:06 |
| clarkb | good | 19:06 |
| clarkb | review.o.o is now backed up | 19:06 |
| anteaya | yay | 19:06 |
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| jeblair | clarkb: wonderful! | 19:06 |
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| clarkb | I am debating whether I should go ahead and do etherpad now or wait for the rebuilt server (which I expect to get to next week) which will use cloud dbs | 19:06 |
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| clarkb | and I think we need to think a little about how we will do ci-puppetmaster | 19:07 |
| jeblair | clarkb: i'm okay with waiting | 19:07 |
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| fungi | have we started backing up trove databases remotely yet? | 19:07 |
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| clarkb | fungi: no, that will require a minor update to my backup module. Basically pass creds in instead of using default my.cnf | 19:08 |
| fungi | also, apparently there is some way hub_cap was saying to trigger ad download a trove backup, though i can't recall whether it was suitable for our needs | 19:08 |
| mordred | clarkb and I noodled a very small amount about ci-puppetmaster | 19:08 |
| fungi | something about being careful not to upload to the same swift store | 19:08 |
| mordred | don't think we were really truly happy about any of the thoughts | 19:08 |
| clarkb | fungi: their backups don't give us what jeblair wants out of backups, append only etc | 19:08 |
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| fungi | ahh, right | 19:08 |
| clarkb | fungi: I think we need to take our own backups too | 19:09 |
| fungi | yep, makes sense | 19:09 |
| mordred | I agree - although I think that their backups might be a nice addition to the set | 19:09 |
| jeblair | well, as a mechanism for getting the data out of mysql, they may be sufficient... | 19:09 |
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| mordred | (you can't have too much backups) | 19:09 |
| jeblair | but we should then archive them somewhere ourselves for the other reasons | 19:09 |
| clarkb | yeah it isn't a bad thing, just not completely sufficient for our needs | 19:09 |
| mordred | BUT - if we start to use/use them, we'll be tying to rax, as the mechanism is apparently different between hp and rax | 19:09 |
| mordred | sigh | 19:09 |
| jeblair | that's a good reason to just ignore it | 19:10 |
| fungi | as for the puppetmaster, i think maybe we ought to make sure that we have clearly-defined places on the filesystem which we exclude from bup, and then we can make periodic encrypted tarballs of those trees and stick them somewhere reachable so as not to make bup's git too worthless | 19:10 |
| mordred | because, you know, that's a winning idea | 19:10 |
| clarkb | fungi: that sounds like a reasonable approach | 19:10 |
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| mordred | fungi: the thing we're most concerned with is backing up that one file - everything else is a simple rebuild | 19:10 |
| clarkb | mordred: two files | 19:10 |
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| clarkb | but yes | 19:10 |
| mordred | ah. wait I see what fungi is saying now | 19:10 |
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| fungi | but yeah, if there's little of interest on the server besides what we want to encrypt, then maybe there's little point to using bup other than for consistency | 19:11 |
| mordred | so - possible rathole - but we discussed perhaps having a sharded master key that infra-core could each have a part of | 19:11 |
| mordred | perhaps we encrypt that dir with the public part of that | 19:11 |
| mordred | and if we ever need to restore, it takes the key re-combination to do so | 19:11 |
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| mordred | (this started in conversations about how to deal with hong kong infra issues) | 19:12 |
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| fungi | we can do an x-out-of-y multipart key, but yeah rathole | 19:12 |
| mordred | yah. come back to that later. sorry | 19:12 |
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| clarkb | I don't think we need to make a decision now, but this is the sort of thing we need to sort out to backup that host in a reasnable manner | 19:12 |
| jeblair | fun. :) | 19:12 |
| jeblair | #topic puppet-dashboard (pleia2, anteaya) | 19:12 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "puppet-dashboard (pleia2, anteaya) (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:12 | |
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| jeblair | pleia2, anteaya: what's the latest? | 19:12 |
| anteaya | so far I have instructions to get a dashboard and master up | 19:13 |
| anteaya | I was using pleia2's hpcloud account and now have my own | 19:13 |
| anteaya | so I will bring up those nodes again on my own | 19:13 |
| anteaya | then I have to get them talking to each other, so bascially the same status as the last time we talked | 19:13 |
| pleia2 | these are manual instructions, once we have this going we'll dig into what we need to change about our puppet module | 19:13 |
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| hub_cap | heyo | 19:14 |
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| pleia2 | that's about it | 19:14 |
| jeblair | ok thanks. i'm looking forward to having a usable dashboard. :) | 19:14 |
| anteaya | yes | 19:15 |
| mordred | ++ | 19:15 |
| jeblair | i think the marconi agenda topic is stale, yeah? | 19:15 |
| mordred | yah | 19:15 |
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| jeblair | #topic Trove testing | 19:15 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Trove testing (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:15 | |
| jeblair | hub_cap: just in time! | 19:15 |
| jeblair | clarkb: has an etherpad link, yeah? | 19:15 |
| clarkb | I do | 19:15 |
| clarkb | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/testing-heat-trove-with-dib | 19:15 |
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| jeblair | that makes sense to me. are there any high level questions we should address before i dive into specifics about storing/publishing the images? | 19:16 |
| mordred | the one thing that we discovered from talking to lifeless after the heat/trove discussion is that caching the upstream images might be a little more complex than we originally thought | 19:17 |
| mordred | but I don't fully understand the details, so I expect to poke at that with lifeless | 19:17 |
| jeblair | mordred: oh, ok. | 19:17 |
| clarkb | mordred: I don't think it is the fully built images that are a problem it is the point about building ubuntu and fedora images to build a package cache | 19:18 |
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| mordred | no - there's another thing | 19:18 |
| mordred | the thing that dib caches is not the exact thing that's downloaded | 19:18 |
| mordred | so we need or they need to grow a thing | 19:18 |
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| mordred | I belive they're going to grow a feature | 19:18 |
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| jeblair | #action mordred understand and explain the mysterious caching issue with the heat/trove test plan | 19:19 |
| anteaya | yes the download then a form of unpacking and then selecting a thing which is cached | 19:19 |
| mordred | anteaya: ++ | 19:19 |
| jeblair | so i was thinking that later this week i would effect the tarballs move (from old-wiki to static.o.o) | 19:20 |
| mordred | woot | 19:20 |
| jeblair | considering step 1 in that plan, it might be a good time to talk about where these images would be published... | 19:20 |
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| jeblair | should we just dump them in a directory on tarballs.o.o, or create a new images.o.o vhost? | 19:20 |
| jeblair | (i mean really, tarballs.o.o is more like "published built artifacts.o.o" anyway... | 19:21 |
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| mordred | yah | 19:21 |
| jeblair | it also holds jars and wars, for instance) | 19:21 |
| mordred | according to heat and trove, they do not expect to produce tons of these | 19:21 |
| pleia2 | will our build systems have access to writing to this server where the images are cached? | 19:21 |
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| mordred | but I do believe tripleo long-term would like to publish a larger and more frequently updated set of images | 19:21 |
| clarkb | pleia2: priveleged jenkins will | 19:21 |
| mordred | so I kinda think subdir on tarballs.o.o for now | 19:21 |
| jeblair | so i'd be okay with just putting them in, say, tarballs.o.o/trove/something.img, unless we wanted to make this thing a real public service with a nicer url. | 19:22 |
| mordred | and then sort out a swift-backed-glance for later when we expect more real traffic | 19:22 |
| mordred | jeblair: ++ | 19:22 |
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| pleia2 | clarkb: ok, safe enough then (at least, not less safe than anything we're doing now) | 19:22 |
| mordred | I think there is a larger design that could be nice here, but is not necessary to get through step one | 19:22 |
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| jeblair | ok, so we'll start there... what kind of space requirements should we expect for heat and trove in the medium term? | 19:22 |
| mordred | 4 images. they have not indicated that they need historical storage - but rather a "this is the one that works" | 19:23 |
| jeblair | hrm, well we never delete anything from tarballs.o.o now, but i suppose we could | 19:23 |
| mordred | until we get a broader requirement, I say we stick with the equiv of a master.img | 19:23 |
| jeblair | oh ok | 19:23 |
| mordred | and then maybe a $tag.img if they ever do those? | 19:24 |
| jeblair | so upload and overwrite an existing filename | 19:24 |
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| clarkb | I think we need at least some rotation for debugging purposes | 19:24 |
| clarkb | (similar to why we keep old snapshot(s) for nodepool) | 19:24 |
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| clarkb | because these artifacts will be used in the gate | 19:24 |
| jeblair | none of this is easy with jenkins scp uploading (neither atomic rewrites, symlinks, or rotation). this is another use-case for a smarter artifact receiver. | 19:25 |
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| jeblair | but, at the moment, that's what we have, so i think the best approximation would be to upload a unique file as well as a master.img file... | 19:26 |
| jeblair | and have a cron job delete old unique files | 19:26 |
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| mordred | I'm fine with that | 19:26 |
| mordred | again - they say these images do not change frequently | 19:26 |
| mordred | "almost never" was the phrase used | 19:26 |
| fungi | the cron job is more or less already there, just needs a pattern and relevant timeframe i think | 19:26 |
| jeblair | so what kind of size are we talking about? | 19:26 |
| jeblair | a few gb total i'm guessing (a handful of couple-hundred-mb images each?) | 19:27 |
| fungi | ahh, so maybe tagging them (releasing the images) makes sense then? | 19:27 |
| mordred | hub_cap: ^^ ? | 19:27 |
| clarkb | the images I was building last week were >200MB and less that <1GB. This was for tripleo so may not represent anything like what trove and heat need | 19:27 |
| mordred | I believe trove and heat do not need large images | 19:27 |
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| mordred | so, yeah to what jeblair said | 19:28 |
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| jeblair | okay, let's throw 50gb at it for starters. | 19:28 |
| hub_cap | sorry dude im totally afk w baby | 19:29 |
| hub_cap | im back let me scroll up | 19:29 |
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| mordred | hub_cap: tl;dr - how big are your images | 19:29 |
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| hub_cap | im thinking ~60m | 19:30 |
| jeblair | #action jeblair move tarballs.o.o and include 50gb space for heat/trove images | 19:30 |
| hub_cap | i can find out tho | 19:30 |
| jeblair | anything else on trove(/heat) testing? | 19:31 |
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| jeblair | #topic Tripleo testing | 19:31 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Tripleo testing (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:31 | |
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| jeblair | lifeless: ping | 19:31 |
| jeblair | so lifeless sent an email about this, and there are a few replies | 19:31 |
| jeblair | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/tripleo-test-cluster | 19:32 |
| lifeless | hi | 19:32 |
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| hub_cap | ohhhhh qcow2 is 400m | 19:32 |
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| hub_cap | i was totally wrong | 19:32 |
| jeblair | in broad strokes, this plan also seems reasonable | 19:32 |
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| jeblair | mordred: did you want to update folks on the changes you made to the etherpad, or is everyone up to speed on that? | 19:33 |
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| jeblair | hub_cap: ok, i'll stick with my swag of 50g then | 19:33 |
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| mordred | basically, since we talked, I remembered that nodepool has the ability to have a custom bootstrap script per base-image type | 19:34 |
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| mordred | which means that rather than piggypacking on the d-g nodes, we could also choose to just make a whole new node type to deal with the tripleo slaves | 19:34 |
| * ttx lurks | 19:34 | |
| hub_cap | jeblair: 50g is reasonable (sry for the late response) | 19:34 |
| mordred | I do not know if that's better or worse | 19:34 |
| jeblair | hub_cap: np, thx | 19:34 |
| mordred | considering that we need to solve upstream image caching on d-g nodes for trove and heat anyway | 19:35 |
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| jeblair | mordred: well, the tripleo slaves want to run on the tripleo cloud, yeah? | 19:35 |
| mordred | they do | 19:35 |
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| jeblair | mordred: so that's a new provider -- and unless we want to run d-g tests there, then it needs to be a new image too | 19:35 |
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| jeblair | so i think that strongly suggests that direction :) | 19:35 |
| mordred | nod. | 19:36 |
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| mordred | so, lifeless, that's the change I made to the etherpad since then | 19:36 |
| mordred | also, jhesketh popped in channel with something like hipster-zoro or something yesterday, which is a zuul-gearman based non-jenkins job runner | 19:37 |
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| mordred | which I think might be worthwhile looking at for the pieces of this that need built | 19:37 |
| mordred | although might be wrong | 19:37 |
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| mordred | that's all | 19:37 |
| fungi | "turbo-hipster" | 19:37 |
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| mordred | yah | 19:37 |
| mordred | https://github.com/rcbau/turbo-hipster | 19:37 |
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| jeblair | mordred: i love it; i think he's trolling you with a whole project. :) | 19:38 |
| mordred | it might be the wrong design for what lifeless needs out of it | 19:38 |
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| fungi | it has a beard and skinny jeans. what more does it need? | 19:38 |
| mordred | craft beer and a food truck | 19:38 |
| anteaya | and an untucked shirt | 19:39 |
| clarkb | mordred: beer consumption among the hipster demographic is down, craft liquor is what you need | 19:39 |
| lifeless | so I want to only vary from existing CI tooling where needed | 19:39 |
| lifeless | better to migrate as part of a bigger plan than be a special snowflake | 19:39 |
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| mordred | yah. I was more thinking about your broker | 19:39 |
| mordred | with the turbo-hipster | 19:39 |
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| mordred | like I said - may be COMPLETE mismatch of purpose | 19:39 |
| lifeless | I think so | 19:40 |
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| mordred | jeblair: any specific questions you wanted to dive in to there? | 19:41 |
| jeblair | well, i think the in-person planning and resulting documentation have made this a very easy topic. i'm interpreting this as widespread agreement and support. | 19:41 |
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| jeblair | mordred: i don't think so. broadly speaking, i think it's sound. there are lots of fun details to work out, but i think they are all tractable problems (easier to deal with when we get closer) | 19:42 |
| clarkb | ++ | 19:42 |
| mordred | ++ | 19:43 |
| mordred | jeblair: we even did most of it without beer | 19:43 |
| jeblair | mordred: i can tell! | 19:43 |
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| jeblair | #topic Salt (UtahDave) | 19:43 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Salt (UtahDave) (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:43 | |
| jeblair | fungi, UtahDave: ? | 19:43 |
| UtahDave | o/ | 19:43 |
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| fungi | i've got a small to do list on this | 19:44 |
| fungi | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/salt-slavery-and-puppetry | 19:44 |
| fungi | mostly just clean-up now | 19:44 |
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| fungi | we've been ironing out the stability issues seen previously and i think we're down to the last one | 19:44 |
| fungi | we were just looking into it before the meeting | 19:45 |
| UtahDave | mostly making sure zmq 3.2+ is installed. | 19:45 |
| jeblair | fungi: point #1 -- i think we add repos to a whitelist where we trust unattended upgrades... | 19:45 |
| jeblair | fungi: are you planning on doing that for salt? | 19:45 |
| fungi | jeblair: we have, but i didn't do it right--needs fixing | 19:45 |
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| jeblair | ah ok | 19:45 |
| fungi | jeblair: i think my ruby/puppet list iteration is wrong is all | 19:45 |
| anteaya | fungi: I can peak after the meeting if you want | 19:46 |
| fungi | UtahDave: did you have details on why #2 there helped? | 19:46 |
| UtahDave | fungi: point #3 the salt-minion should be restarted, not reloaded. | 19:46 |
| fungi | i'd like to make sure i include it in the commit message | 19:46 |
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| fungi | UtahDave: ahh! i heard you backwards earlier. puppet only knows restart unless you do fancy things | 19:46 |
| clarkb | does zmq 3.2+ support 2.X? protocol? | 19:47 |
| fungi | striking from the list | 19:47 |
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| UtahDave | fungi: Yes, it has to do with the Salt Mine. It's a fairly new feature that runs frequently. There apparently was a bug that was causing those issues | 19:47 |
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| clarkb | we may need to do a quick check that newer zmq eg 3.2+ won't break the jenkins event stream plugin | 19:47 |
| fungi | UtahDave: if the salt mine bug link is handy, i'll keep an eye on it so i know when it's safe to revert that bit | 19:48 |
| fungi | clarkb: good point | 19:48 |
| UtahDave | fungi: I don't have it right here. I'll track it down and get it to you. | 19:48 |
| fungi | UtahDave: no rush, and thanks | 19:48 |
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| UtahDave | clarkb: I'm not sure how zmq 3.2 would affect Jenkins. | 19:48 |
| fungi | clarkb: which machines specifically are involved in that right now? just jenkins/zuul/logstash? | 19:48 |
| clarkb | the jenkins side is jeromq which is java native and won't be affected but the python things talking to jeromq use libzmq | 19:48 |
| UtahDave | fungi: np! | 19:48 |
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| clarkb | fungi: and nodepool | 19:49 |
| fungi | clarkb: ahh, right | 19:49 |
| fungi | clarkb: but the jenkins slaves themselves are not, right? | 19:49 |
| clarkb | fungi: correct | 19:49 |
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| mordred | we eventually want salt minions on everything for the salt puppeting - so I think that's a good thing to check | 19:50 |
| jeblair | ++ | 19:50 |
| fungi | mordred: yep, item #8 on that to do list | 19:51 |
| UtahDave | testing is obviously in order, but my guess is that upgrading to zmq3.2 won't cause any communication issues. Salt works with both zmq 2.1.x and zmq 3.2-x | 19:51 |
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| clarkb | UtahDave: that is what I expected | 19:51 |
| UtahDave | zmq 3.2.x fixes a bunch of stability issues | 19:51 |
| jeblair | fungi, UtahDave: anything else on this topic? | 19:52 |
| fungi | no, i think that's about it--continuing to hack away at it | 19:52 |
| UtahDave | As fungi ties off this initial project, if anyone else has any uses for Salt, please let me know | 19:52 |
| jeblair | UtahDave: thanks for your (countinued!) help | 19:52 |
| jeblair | #topic Owncloud (anteaya) | 19:53 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Owncloud (anteaya) (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:53 | |
| jeblair | anteaya: hi! | 19:53 |
| anteaya | I have stood up an owncloud: 15.185.188.187/owncloud/ | 19:53 |
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| anteaya | and gave out credentials to the infra team via pm last week | 19:53 |
| anteaya | hi | 19:53 |
| anteaya | the reason I did this was mordred asked me to | 19:53 |
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| anteaya | apparently the board wants to use it | 19:54 |
| jeblair | i think mordred (in his board capacity) is driving requirements for this... | 19:54 |
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| anteaya | yes | 19:54 |
| mordred | yah. the board would like a place to put documents | 19:54 |
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| mordred | so that we can stop having a private mailing list | 19:54 |
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| jeblair | anteaya, mordred: so do you want to do some acceptance testing with the install anteaya has set up? | 19:54 |
| anteaya | will owncloud suit their needs? | 19:54 |
| anteaya | let's do that | 19:54 |
| mordred | I think the main outstanding questions are: | 19:55 |
| mordred | auth integration of some sort | 19:55 |
| zaro | anteaya: did you check if it works with windows 7, the webdav portion? | 19:55 |
| anteaya | zaro: I have not, no | 19:55 |
| jeblair | mordred: i think that would be nice, but with a limited pool of users, integrated auth support could probably be deferred... | 19:55 |
| mordred | uhm, I think that's the main one | 19:55 |
| mordred | totally. we can totally do by-hand auth | 19:55 |
| anteaya | I think I still have the link you sent me though | 19:55 |
| mordred | I think at first the main purpose of this is "so board can share stuff" | 19:55 |
| jeblair | mordred: want to share some docs with us then? | 19:56 |
| anteaya | they can look at files | 19:56 |
| mordred | it might be nice to expand that in te future to "so devs and stuff can share stuff" | 19:56 |
| jeblair | zaro: good idea to test webdav on osx and windows | 19:56 |
| anteaya | but they can't edit other people's files | 19:56 |
| anteaya | it is not a group file editing app | 19:56 |
| clarkb | isn't group based permissions important as well? | 19:56 |
| jeblair | mordred: integrated auth would def be a requirement for that | 19:56 |
| mordred | yah | 19:56 |
| pleia2 | anteaya: oh, I have a win7 install floating around, just let me know what to test | 19:56 |
| mordred | clarkb: not for step one - if this is only used by the board, there is only one group :) | 19:56 |
| mordred | anteaya: I do not seem to be able to add things to the shared folder | 19:57 |
| anteaya | okay, perhaps just logging in to start? | 19:57 |
| pleia2 | anteaya: will do | 19:57 |
| anteaya | mordred: create a file and then share it | 19:57 |
| mordred | there _do_ seem to be groups in it - and you seem to be able to share with groups | 19:57 |
| clarkb | mordred: right, but if there is a step two and dropbox doesn't do group permissions... I think we need to test it a bit as if we were using it in the desired end state | 19:57 |
| anteaya | you have to click it and then select share | 19:57 |
| mordred | I hav ejust shared a file | 19:58 |
| mordred | clarkb: agree | 19:58 |
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| mordred | do people see the file I shared? | 19:58 |
| jeblair | mordred, anteaya: ok, let us know if there's specific testing you would like us to do; other than that, i think when mordred decides it's okay we should puppet it, yeah? | 19:58 |
| anteaya | jeblair: yes | 19:58 |
| mordred | I think we should work on puppeting it | 19:58 |
| mordred | it seems to meet the basic use case | 19:58 |
| mordred | which is file sharing for a group of 24 people managed by hand | 19:59 |
| anteaya | okay, I will work with anyone wanted to test the functionality of owncloud | 19:59 |
| jeblair | mordred: i have received your kerrerts. | 19:59 |
| anteaya | and also will start to puppet it | 19:59 |
| mordred | if there are more advanced things we want out of it, Alan clark has offered to have suse fix things if they don't work | 19:59 |
| jeblair | we did not get to this topic: elastic-recheck (clarkb, jog0, mtreinish) | 19:59 |
| clarkb | do we want to look at alternatives as well? | 19:59 |
| anteaya | awesome | 19:59 |
| mordred | anteaya: it should probably be configured to use swift as a backend and stuff | 19:59 |
| jeblair | i'll move it to top of agenda for next week | 19:59 |
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| clarkb | jeblair: thanks | 19:59 |
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| jeblair | clarkb, jog0, mtreinish: if there are urgent things related to that, we can overflow into -infra channel now | 20:00 |
| anteaya | mordred: okay, this one had mysql backend, I will work on a swift backend | 20:00 |
| mordred | clarkb: I don't care enough - but if there are alternatives people know about, then whee! | 20:00 |
| mordred | anteaya: thanks! | 20:00 |
| jeblair | thanks everyone! | 20:00 |
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| jeblair | #endmeeting | 20:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 20:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Sep 24 20:00:24 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 20:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2013/infra.2013-09-24-19.00.html | 20:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2013/infra.2013-09-24-19.00.txt | 20:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2013/infra.2013-09-24-19.00.log.html | 20:00 |
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| ttx | Who is around for the TC meeting ? | 20:00 |
| notmyname | here | 20:00 |
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| markmcclain | o/ | 20:00 |
| shardy | o/ | 20:01 |
| markmc | hey | 20:01 |
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| jgriffith | o/ | 20:01 |
| e-vad | o/ | 20:01 |
| mordred | o/ | 20:01 |
| ttx | russellb, jd__, dolphm, annegentle, mikal, markwash, jgriffith, vishy, gabrielhurley: around ? | 20:01 |
| russellb | o/ | 20:01 |
| dolphm | o/ | 20:01 |
| gabrielhurley | \o | 20:01 |
| markwash | yup | 20:01 |
| annegentle | arooo | 20:01 |
| ttx | ok, plenty enough today | 20:01 |
| ttx | Let's get started | 20:01 |
| jgriffith | Yup, I'm still here... here's my other arm \o | 20:01 |
| ttx | #startmeeting tc | 20:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Sep 24 20:01:56 2013 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is ttx. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 20:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 20:01 |
| jd__ | o/ | 20:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:02 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'tc' | 20:02 |
| ttx | Our agenda: | 20:02 |
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| ttx | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Governance/TechnicalCommittee | 20:02 |
| mikal | Morning | 20:02 |
| ttx | This should be the last meeting for the current members ! | 20:02 |
| ttx | Let's break everything | 20:02 |
| jgriffith | ttx: +1 | 20:02 |
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| ttx | #topic Savanna incubation request: final discussion / vote | 20:02 |
| mikal | Heh | 20:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Savanna incubation request: final discussion / vote (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:02 | |
| russellb | well then | 20:02 |
| annegentle | wow sad to see the band break up | 20:02 |
| ttx | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2013-September/014623.html | 20:02 |
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| ttx | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Savanna/Incubation | 20:02 |
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| ttx | Two weeks ago we had the initial discussion on Savanna. Several issues were raised... | 20:02 |
| ttx | Including the fact that Savanna was both providing a hadoop-cluster-provisioning API and a mapreduce data API | 20:03 |
| ttx | And that the cluster provisioning part still had to see where it fits, compared to Heat and Trove | 20:03 |
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| ttx | Sergey posted a few answers recently at: | 20:03 |
| ttx | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Savanna/Incubation#Raised_Questions_.2B_Answers | 20:03 |
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| ttx | The discussion last week (and on the mailing-list since) shows that a lot of discussion is still needed to come up with a final integration plan | 20:03 |
| ttx | Some TC members think that incubation would be a way to encourage that discussion | 20:03 |
| ttx | Other TC members would prefer that the integration roadmap is finalized prior to incubation, the incubation period being about the execution of that plan (with graduation when the plan is executed) | 20:04 |
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| * annegentle is listening to/watching the video at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SrlHM0-q5zI | 20:04 | |
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| ttx | Personally I was on the first group but I think the second group's position makes a lot of sense... no real need to rush this. But I just want to make sure that discussion happens | 20:04 |
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| russellb | well, and I think incubation further encourages the discussion | 20:04 |
| * mordred is in the first group - doesn't think that we've required the integration plan pre-incubation for anyone else | 20:04 | |
| ttx | So I guess I would be fine with deferring incubation for a few weeks/months, as long as we still give time to Savanna at the design summit so that they can discuss with other incubated/integrated projects and come up with a plan | 20:05 |
| russellb | i think incubating them gives even more reason for everyone else to participate in the needed discussion | 20:05 |
| russellb | so i guess i'm in the first group | 20:05 |
| jgriffith | mordred: I think the bigger questions were around overlap | 20:05 |
| mordred | yup. I'd also like to say thank you to SergeyLukjanov for responding to last time's questions | 20:05 |
| * jgriffith appears to be the only one still in the second group | 20:05 | |
| markwash | we haven't required a full integration plan in the past, but integration hasn't felt as troubling to me personally in the past | 20:06 |
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| annegentle | I'm with markwash, it's a timing thing | 20:06 |
| jgriffith | integration means something very different in this case IMO | 20:06 |
| ttx | jgriffith: you're not alone. | 20:06 |
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| russellb | may mean that it's incubating for longer than one release then | 20:06 |
| russellb | but i don't think that's bad | 20:06 |
| ttx | It's perfectly fine to defer the request until the concerns of scope overlap are solved | 20:06 |
| mordred | russellb: ++ | 20:06 |
| dolphm | jgriffith: i'm in the second group with you | 20:07 |
| * markmcclain is in 2nd too | 20:07 | |
| annegentle | I was trying to think of any "loss" from deferring incubation, and I don't see any other than fairness, that they are getting more scrutinized due to the recent growth. | 20:07 |
| jgriffith | annegentle: IMO that needs to happen at some point | 20:07 |
| jeblair | i think that whatever plan you go with should not result in the sort of situation we were in with trove where we graduated a project from incubation because we "had not been clear at the outset what the requirements should be" | 20:07 |
| jgriffith | annegentle: and I really think they're a *new* type of project | 20:07 |
| markmc | for me, the project looks like it's on the right track and has a sustainable developer team around it | 20:07 |
| annegentle | and I'm not always in the business of fairness as my kids will tell you :) | 20:07 |
| ttx | mordred, russellb: the trick is, we bless the end goal here and the team to deliver it. here the end goal still looks a bit fuzzy to me, with both clustering and data API | 20:07 |
| jgriffith | annegentle: haha1 | 20:07 |
| mikal | It is important to have this discussion now I think, because its a lot harder when people have put in all the incubation work and think its a done deal and then we're concerned. | 20:08 |
| mordred | ttx: the https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Savanna/Incubation#Raised_Questions_.2B_Answers has an aim towards most of the provisioning going to heat | 20:08 |
| jgriffith | mikal: +1 | 20:08 |
| russellb | ttx: well can't we just make that clear now then, that there will be expectations, and those need to be formed? | 20:08 |
| mordred | mikal: ++ | 20:08 |
| markwash | I'm concerned that, based on the proposed integration specifically re: Trove, the savannah group may have a vested interest against what seems to me to be a likely "best" integration path | 20:08 |
| markwash | which is why bestowing incubation status feels like it may be premature | 20:08 |
| vishy | o/ | 20:08 |
| markmc | what are we saying is the "best" integration path? | 20:09 |
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| jgriffith | markmc: personally I don't know that we can say that, other than address the overlap and shared concerns | 20:09 |
| markwash | markmc. . not we, just me. . I'm considering "savannah uses trove to deploy hadoop" to be a potential answer | 20:09 |
| * hub_cap stays quiet | 20:09 | |
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| mordred | I still don't know what "uses trove to deploy hadoop" really means - the two don't seem related to me at all | 20:10 |
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| markmc | mordred, agree | 20:10 |
| russellb | mordred: +1 | 20:10 |
| russellb | both of them using heat, yes | 20:10 |
| jd__ | incubation should be about "Does this could ever be an integrated project for OpenStack?", that's it, IMHO, the rest is the purpose of incubation | 20:10 |
| mordred | russellb: ++ | 20:10 |
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| markmc | the cluster provisioning *implementation* overlapping with heat makes sense to me | 20:10 |
| mordred | markmc: ++ | 20:10 |
| jgriffith | jd__: if that's the case it's an easier question IMO | 20:10 |
| markmc | which is similar feedback we gave to trove | 20:10 |
| mordred | yah. | 20:11 |
| markmc | jd__, we've required a sustainable developer team in the past too - e.g. for designate | 20:11 |
| hub_cap | fwiw, trove has no clustering solution, so integration will likely take a while whatever path is chosen ;) | 20:11 |
| shardy | markmc: the cluster provisioning implementation could be a new (shared) Heat resource | 20:11 |
| markmc | but it looks to me like savannah has that | 20:11 |
| ttx | mordred, russellb: I sit on the fence. I feel like we'll see a lot more clearly after the summit and be in a lot better position to decide. On the other hand, incubation might be a way to make sure that discussion happens :) | 20:11 |
| ErikB | Keep in mind that provisioning VMs is a very small part of what Savanna brings to the table. | 20:11 |
| russellb | ttx: but if they don't incubate, they get lost in the noise | 20:12 |
| dolphm | jd__: ++ | 20:12 |
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| jd__ | markmc: well because we probably don't envision a project with 0 or 1 developer being part of integrated OpenStack ;) | 20:12 |
| mikal | ErikB: that's a good point | 20:12 |
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| jgriffith | russellb: if they poof that easily better now than later | 20:12 |
| mordred | ErikB: yeah. this sentence is what I think did it for me: "Hadoop isn't a database or just data storage, but a huge ecosystem with tons of data processing related tools." | 20:12 |
| markmc | jd__, right | 20:12 |
| ttx | russellb: in particular, I would like to clarify if Savanna's goal is to provide a provisioning API, a data API, or both. | 20:12 |
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| jgriffith | ttx: +1 | 20:12 |
| ttx | Currently it's "both", and it doesn't make real sense to me as an openstack project | 20:13 |
| mordred | which helped me realize I was framing hadoop a bit wrong in my head | 20:13 |
| ErikB | mordred - exactly. Deploying Hadoop is complex and often times vendor specific not lending itself well to a generic approach. | 20:13 |
| markmc | ttx, what's the big issue with "both" as an answer? | 20:13 |
| * markmc isn't seeing it | 20:13 | |
| ErikB | ttx - both what? | 20:13 |
| mordred | ttx: I've been struggling with that view since you said it originally ... | 20:13 |
| mordred | what markmc said | 20:13 |
| mordred | I'm not sure what it's a problem - given the nature of hadoop/map reduce processing | 20:13 |
| gabrielhurley | I'm still very on the fence about this entire type of project... The "data processing" program seems like a big grey area of user/customer-oriented workflows and best practices and I have a hard time seeing the right fit for integration, but maybe that's just me. | 20:13 |
| markwash | the issue for me is that we already have similar provisioning apis | 20:13 |
| ttx | markmc: I see those two APIs as having a completely different audience | 20:13 |
| jgriffith | gabrielhurley: not just you FWIW | 20:14 |
| ttx | markmc: that's really two projects lumped together | 20:14 |
| jmaron | it's goal isn't to provide a provisioning api or a data api. it's goal is to make hadoop viable in an openstack, virtualized environment. provisioning is part of that process, and it's MUCH more than a data api | 20:14 |
| mordred | I see it as "as a user of a cloud, I would like to map/reduce some data, but I don't want to have to understand the ops aspect of running a hadoop cluster" | 20:14 |
| markmc | ttx, for hadoop? I think I see it as the same audience | 20:14 |
| markwash | maybe I just need more time to find my way to the Kool-Aid table :-) | 20:14 |
| markmc | mordred, right | 20:14 |
| mordred | I _do_ grok the map/reduce job I want to run | 20:14 |
| gabrielhurley | jmaron: if you say that, then I have to say "why hadoop and not X?" | 20:14 |
| mordred | this is why I think it's a good fit for a cloud | 20:14 |
| ErikB | ttx: you can't have one without the other. Provisioning is incidental it's the provisioning of the hadoop services on the virtualized resources where the value is. This is complex, vendor specific. | 20:15 |
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| mordred | either a) you hav ea job and you want to run it on your own private hadoop, and still don't wnat to manage the details of running the hadoop | 20:15 |
| IlyaE | Hadoop is a huge ecosystem and Savanna goal is to provide integrated experience of running Hadoop solutions seamless on top of OpenStack | 20:15 |
| mordred | or b) you have a job and you don't mind running it on a potentially shared hadoop | 20:15 |
| mordred | but in either case, you want the workload taken care of, and you don't really care about the details of how the cluster operates | 20:15 |
| ErikB | gabrielhurley: Savanna is specifically focused on hadoop and nothing else at the moment | 20:15 |
| gabrielhurley | yes, but why should OpenStack bless Hadoop? | 20:16 |
| IlyaE | providing integration with existent tooling to properly configure and operate Hadoop clusters in integral part of the all process | 20:16 |
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| ttx | mordred: interesting | 20:16 |
| IlyaE | and Elastic Data Processing or Data API is built on top | 20:16 |
| mordred | gabrielhurley: same reason we bless MySQL | 20:16 |
| gabrielhurley | except we don't | 20:16 |
| mordred | sure we do | 20:16 |
| mordred | trove is MySQL aaS out of the box | 20:16 |
| gabrielhurley | we implicitly use mysql and are trying to add more backends | 20:16 |
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| gabrielhurley | trove is also working to support postgres and nonrel | 20:16 |
| jd__ | mordred: it has abstraction to provide for others | 20:16 |
| SergeyLukjanov | gabrielhurley, Hadoop is the largest open source eco in area of Big Data | 20:16 |
| jmaron | gabriellehurley: I would assume openstack welcoming hadoop would be a win-win for both | 20:17 |
| jd__ | I'm with gabrielhurley on this one :) | 20:17 |
| mikal | SergeyLukjanov: are they any viable competitors at the moment? | 20:17 |
| IlyaE | gabrielhurley - it's not about what is on backend of OpenStack - it's about apps running on OpenStack | 20:17 |
| aignatov | jmaron: ++ | 20:17 |
| ttx | IlyaE, mordred: I guess I can see your point of providing a "portfolio of solutions for people wanting to do mapreduce stuff" | 20:17 |
| gabrielhurley | Savanna (as I understand it) has no intention of being pluggable, or agnostic in any way | 20:17 |
| mikal | SergeyLukjanov: or is it so big its the only game in town? | 20:17 |
| hub_cap | trove wil be supporting posgres soon fwiw, and redis | 20:17 |
| ErikB | gabrielhurley: OpenStack provides IaaS presumably to do something useful, one of the use cases that users are screaming for is to deploy hadoop on OpenStack. This is not easy todo today, as a matter of fact it's quite difficult. Savanna solves this exact problem and brings hadoop to the masses on top of OpenStack. | 20:17 |
| gabrielhurley | Hadoop has a great ecosystem, but it's far from the only game in town | 20:17 |
| hub_cap | and cassandra / mongo will come after :) | 20:17 |
| ttx | IlyaE, mordred: that would address my fear of "two different audiences" | 20:17 |
| markwash | why wouldn't I want to use an off-the-shelf hadoop job management system, and just deploy my hadoop on openstack with trove or heat? | 20:17 |
| IlyaE | gabrielhurley Savanna has pluggable mechanism implemented already | 20:17 |
| mordred | ttx: | 20:18 |
| mordred | ttx: ++ | 20:18 |
| SergeyLukjanov | mikal, there are a lot of other tools in area of data processing, for example, Twitter Storm (that is now on the go to the Apache Foundation) | 20:18 |
| annegentle | Yeah I'm a conservationist for OpenStack resources and having to support hadoop/savanna in our support channels is not win to me | 20:18 |
| mordred | markwash: because that's really hard | 20:18 |
| gabrielhurley | FWIW, I'm not arguing the value of savanna as solving a real problem. I'm questioning if that's a problem that integrated OpenStack is trying to solve for it's users. | 20:18 |
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| IlyaE | ttx In terms of audience it's absolutely the same - people who need to run analytic/computational workloads on cloud platform | 20:18 |
| * mordred thinks that IaaS means "help me do things via APIs that I normally have to hire admins to do for me" | 20:18 | |
| ttx | IlyaE: point taken | 20:19 |
| jmaron | annegentle: you are not interested in running viable, sought after application soltuions on openstack? | 20:19 |
| mikal | SergeyLukjanov: would it be possible to have an API which expresses botha Hadoop map reduce or a Storm one in a sensible manner? | 20:19 |
| mordred | so that as a dev, I can focus on the task at hand, and as an operator, I can consolidate admin knowledge into an efficiency-by-scale solution | 20:19 |
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| dolphm | mordred: but admins can do ANYTHING | 20:19 |
| mikal | SergeyLukjanov: or are their assumptions so fundamentally different that API wouldn't make sense? | 20:19 |
| annegentle | jmaron: not at all, but what resources are they entitled to? | 20:19 |
| notmyname | mordred: wordpress shared blogging platforms ;-) | 20:20 |
| akuznetsov | mikal yes Twitter Storm can be deployed to Hadoop via Yarn | 20:20 |
| markwash | notmyname: incubation approved | 20:20 |
| gabrielhurley | Hadoop clustering is hard. I wouldn't really want to do it from scratch personally. If I were gonna do it on OpenStack I *might* use Savanna for that. But I don't know that I would expect to find Savanna as a batteries-included part of OpenStack. The more I think about it the more it feels like an essential and important part of the ecosystem... | 20:20 |
| SergeyLukjanov | mikal, in terms of data processing api there are the same - run some workloads with specified configs, inputs and outputs, etc. | 20:20 |
| * markwash only kids | 20:20 | |
| ruhe | mikal, there are different data processing tools - Pig, Hive, raw MapReduce jobs. we already have API to use any of them | 20:20 |
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| mordred | gabrielhurley: I'm not sure what "important part of the ecosystem" means | 20:21 |
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| mordred | gabrielhurley: or what that looks like to me as a consumer | 20:21 |
| ttx | gabrielhurley: I don't always install Hadoop, but when I do, I use Savanna. | 20:21 |
| mordred | ttx: hahaha | 20:21 |
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| gabrielhurley | mordred: if OpenStack doesn't find a way to promote projects that are useful and well-written without integrating them, we're doomed. | 20:21 |
| mikal | SergeyLukjanov: so you don't see a large _technical_ barrier to addding storm to savannah later if there was demand? | 20:21 |
| markwash | dooooooooooooooooomed | 20:21 |
| gabrielhurley | doooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooomed | 20:21 |
| markwash | sorry | 20:21 |
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| ttx | So I guess we have three options for this meeting's vote: approve incubation now, defer the application until after summit and give some time at the summit to clarify it, or just plain deny it | 20:22 |
| ErikB | gabrielhurley: exactly. | 20:22 |
| gabrielhurley | I'm not | 20:22 |
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| SergeyLukjanov | mikal, no, there are no problems to add Twitter Storm to Savanna | 20:22 |
| mordred | gabrielhurley: I'd say if the ecosystem doesn't find a way for those to make sense for consumers, the ecosystem is doomed | 20:22 |
| gabrielhurley | I'm open to summit time and more thoguht | 20:22 |
| mordred | righ tnow "the ecosystem" is vaporware" | 20:22 |
| mikal | ttx: that sounds like two votes: do we defer; and do we incubate? | 20:22 |
| gabrielhurley | mordred: it's a two-way street | 20:22 |
| gabrielhurley | but yes | 20:22 |
| dmitryme | gabrielhurley: I don't think there is a silver bullet for every app | 20:22 |
| mikal | ttx: the second one only being needed for some outcomes of the first | 20:22 |
| ttx | (note that solution (2) is also about punting to the next TC membership) | 20:22 |
| mordred | gabrielhurley: if any of our public clouds would do anything other than NIH, we might get somewhere | 20:22 |
| gabrielhurley | :-/ | 20:22 |
| ttx | mikal: (2) is like (3) but granting some official summit time | 20:23 |
| mordred | gabrielhurley: thus far, the ONLY way any of them EVER work together on ANYTHING is when we're involved | 20:23 |
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| hub_cap | ttx either way the integration vote is w a new group :) | 20:23 |
| mordred | so, as soon as I see that behvior even start to change a little bit, I'll be less of a maximalist | 20:23 |
| dolphm | ttx: is there something that says a project that has been denied incubation by one TC can't re-apply to another TC? | 20:23 |
| ttx | mikal: I guess so, yes | 20:23 |
| ttx | dolphm: no | 20:23 |
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| dolphm | ttx: then what's the difference between 2 and 3? | 20:23 |
| dolphm | ttx: either way it's a vote for "not now" | 20:24 |
| gabrielhurley | agreed. that's partly their fault for not self-organizing more, and partly ours for not guiding more and providing more framework/structure/tools that aren't stackforge->integration | 20:24 |
| ttx | dolphm: you allocate official summit time for savanna, which would otherwise have to fight for space in the unconference or wherever | 20:24 |
| mikal | So, I think deferring is a cop out. We've had several weeks to discuss this, and I'm not clear on how the small amount of free time each of us has at the summit will help things be clearer. We're here to make a technical call, and we should do that. | 20:24 |
| mordred | gabrielhurley: fair enough | 20:24 |
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| dolphm | ttx: ah, important distinction then | 20:24 |
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| mordred | gabrielhurley: (altohugh I do think hadoop is normal enough that I want to see clouds support it across the board) | 20:24 |
| hub_cap | fwiw, regardless of tc vote, myself, heat core members and savanna need to talk | 20:24 |
| hub_cap | myself=trove | 20:24 |
| hub_cap | there is a lot of overlap | 20:24 |
| markwash | le trove, c'est moi | 20:25 |
| mordred | gabrielhurley: so I agre with you in the large, but on this particular thing, I think a hadoop is something I expect a cloud to be able to give me | 20:25 |
| annegentle | I agree with gabrielhurley and mordred, "the ecosystem" is fuzzy and we should make that better, but is incubation "the ecosystem" is also fuzzy to me. | 20:25 |
| mordred | hub_cap: ++ | 20:25 |
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| russellb | hub_cap: yes, and i think incubating a project is the best way to encourage that to happen | 20:25 |
| ttx | It looks like there is no consensus right now, and a bit more savanna exposure could help solve that | 20:25 |
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| jmaron | as well as hadoop exposure | 20:25 |
| mikal | ttx: a lot of TC members aren't talking at the moment though. I feel like a vote is the best way to test for concensus. | 20:26 |
| mordred | mikal: ++ | 20:26 |
| russellb | ++ | 20:26 |
| mordred | that is, after all, what voting is for | 20:26 |
| markmc | yeah | 20:26 |
| ttx | true words | 20:26 |
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| markmc | it would seem unfair to the savannah folks not to vote | 20:26 |
| annegentle | I'm studying savanna a ton, and I think they're on the right track, and I'd like to encourage them, but I'm not sure the timing of incubation before summit is quite right. | 20:26 |
| gabrielhurley | mordred: Hadoop's kind of a "least-common denominator" right now. it's often not the *right* thing, but people use to to kick the tires a bit, or to do some job that doesn't deserve to be specialized... | 20:26 |
| IlyaE | while voting keep in mind, that Savanna is fairly advanced technically, with cluster provisioning up and working, plugins allowing different Hadoop distributions integration, stable and growing community team | 20:26 |
| markmc | they've done everything we've asked to prepare for this | 20:26 |
| IlyaE | we have bunch of videos published | 20:26 |
| SergeyLukjanov | btw we've already have a bunch of working code and a great team that is working on project for long time, dashboard plugin, python bindings, diskimage-builder elements | 20:27 |
| ErikB | annegentle: What timing would be better? | 20:27 |
| russellb | markmc: +1 | 20:27 |
| mordred | markmc: ++ | 20:27 |
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| mordred | I actually think they've done an excellent job in both keeping up with infra things | 20:27 |
| ttx | IlyaE: paradoxically I feel like it's that advancement that plays a bit against it :) | 20:27 |
| mordred | and being proactive about it | 20:27 |
| jgriffith | IlyaE: SergeyLukjanov so here's the thing... YOu're way ahead and things look great IMO | 20:27 |
| IlyaE | and incubation status would really help to accelerate the further integration of Savanna to OpenStack | 20:27 |
| dolphm | annegentle: ++ | 20:27 |
| jgriffith | the confusion I have is how to reconcile with the overlap of tasks | 20:27 |
| IlyaE | that would be the key goal for IceHouse | 20:27 |
| dolphm | IlyaE: i'm not convinced that's true | 20:28 |
| ErikB | IlyaE: ++ | 20:28 |
| jgriffith | You keep saying "cluster provisioning is only a small part" | 20:28 |
| russellb | i think it's clear that the overlap is an issue and it's the major expectation we have to be worked on | 20:28 |
| jgriffith | but it is a part | 20:28 |
| jgriffith | and it's not that small else we wouldn't need heat | 20:28 |
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| jgriffith | I'm fine with incubation | 20:28 |
| ttx | ok, we can do a plain yes/no vote, and in case no wins we can decide of any special measure like summit exposure | 20:28 |
| jgriffith | I just think it would be great to have better coordination | 20:28 |
| jd__ | if everybody thinks Hadoop as a service fits OpenStack, the rest is up for incubation | 20:28 |
| mordred | ttx: ++ | 20:28 |
| markmcclain | ttx: ++ | 20:28 |
| jd__ | overlap resolving etc | 20:28 |
| russellb | jd__: that's my take too | 20:28 |
| SergeyLukjanov | jgriffith, we would like to move provisioning code out as much as possible by Heat integration | 20:28 |
| gabrielhurley | jd__: I can agree with that | 20:28 |
| annegentle | ErikB: probably just conflating my discomfort with the havana release less than a month away | 20:28 |
| mordred | jd__: ++ | 20:29 |
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| ttx | I definitely think a mapreduce API belongs | 20:29 |
| markwash | resolving overlap is a major issue, but what guarantees do we have that incubation encourages resolving it in the right way? | 20:29 |
| jmaron | "small" isn't a slight or a comment on its importance. it's an indication that provisioning is only a portion of the tasks executed as part of provisioning hadoop on openstack. | 20:29 |
| markwash | I'm actually afraid it makes it worse | 20:29 |
| ErikB | annegentle: I see. Although I see them as orthogonal with no impact on each other. | 20:29 |
| mikal | markwash: not granting graduation? | 20:29 |
| annegentle | markwash: good point, but we don't have other mechanisms | 20:29 |
| ttx | I'm slightly skeptical about the provisioning stuff, and would like it to be extremely thin and reuse existing bits, but everyone agrees with that | 20:29 |
| IlyaE | markwash there is gating factor in form of graduation | 20:29 |
| mordred | markwash: I've been beating marconi over the head about things since they got incubated | 20:29 |
| jd__ | I've no problem with incubation during 3 years if they can't resolve the issues -- though the project may be kicked out before :) | 20:30 |
| russellb | markwash: i don't think we have a guarantee, but my gut says it's better than saying no. | 20:30 |
| SergeyLukjanov | markwash, graduation is the guarantee | 20:30 |
| dolphm | my opinion is simply that resolving overlap is outside the scope of incubation, which should just be the last few steps towards an integrated release | 20:30 |
| mordred | markwash: and they have to take it :) | 20:30 |
| markwash | I think the crucial thing is "in the right way" | 20:30 |
| markwash | it will certainly be resolved before graduation | 20:30 |
| ttx | I had trouble with the "dual audience" question, but IlyaE and mordred kind of fixed that | 20:30 |
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| jgriffith | russellb: I'm good with that | 20:30 |
| mordred | yay! I was helpful! | 20:30 |
| markwash | but I don't yet buy a lot of the arguments that "hadoop is just different" | 20:30 |
| ttx | jd__: +1 | 20:31 |
| markwash | so i would want to see more flexibiliity from advocates on that position | 20:31 |
| markwash | before voting yes to incubation | 20:31 |
| nadya | markwash, what does "in the right way" mean? | 20:31 |
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| ttx | markwash: I'd say that data transformation is a basic application building block, like a queue or a database | 20:32 |
| markwash | nadya: there are lots of ways to resolve the overlap. . we could decide it doesn't exist, we could delete everything provisioning and replace it with heat, we could use trove to provision more things clustery, we could build clustering as its own component | 20:33 |
| ttx | markwash: that's how I solve the "hadoop is ok, but wordpress is not" question in my mind | 20:33 |
| ErikB | markwash: hadoop is different in two perspectives I believe: scale of deployment (100's to 1000's of nodes) , coordination of configuring and startup of services. My point of reference being JavaEE servers and databases on Hadoop. | 20:33 |
| ErikB | correction on Hadoop = on OpenStack | 20:33 |
| jgriffith | ummm... you can run single node hadoop. Just saying | 20:33 |
| markwash | nadya: but the advanced state and the corporate connection with savannah spells "vested interests" to me | 20:33 |
| jgriffith | but anyway, I think we're getting off track | 20:33 |
| markwash | so I just want to be sure before voting yes | 20:34 |
| ErikB | jgriffith: this is not what we are solving. We are solving the real world use cases of large scale deployments. | 20:34 |
| gabrielhurley | What about things like Storm, Spark, Azkaban, etc. that aren't "hadoop ecosystem"? | 20:34 |
| rnirmal | also keep in mind from an openstack perspective a managed service(similar to trove) for provisioning and managing clustering services would be a good separated project. i.e it doesn't have to be Hadoop specific and can support other clustered applications as well. | 20:34 |
| ttx | fwiw incubation is a lot less... definitive than graduation to integrated is. | 20:34 |
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| jgriffith | ErikB: settle, wasn't criticizing or challenging you there | 20:34 |
| gabrielhurley | rnirmal: I would vote for that in a heartbeat ;-) | 20:34 |
| jgriffith | ErikB: I understand what you're saying | 20:34 |
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| SergeyLukjanov | gabrielhurley, some of them could be installed at Hadoop 2 using YARN (for example, Twitter Storm) | 20:34 |
| ttx | the next TC can remove it if it doesn't like what it sees, and it can stay in incubation for 3 years if that's what it takes to integrate properly | 20:34 |
| jgriffith | let's vote! | 20:35 |
| gabrielhurley | SergeyLukjanov: is that something Savanna would want to add to their roadmap? | 20:35 |
| nadya | markwash, I think all of us agree that Clustering API is important question and we are ready to discuss it. it's too complicated. several project are involved | 20:35 |
| * annegentle has to get to an appointment, mikal has my proxy vote | 20:36 | |
| ttx | TC members: please indicate when you're ready to vote, so that I know when to start it | 20:36 |
| markmcclain | ready to vote | 20:36 |
| mikal | ttx: ready | 20:36 |
| ttx | ready | 20:36 |
| jd__ | ready | 20:36 |
| jgriffith | ready | 20:36 |
| russellb | ready | 20:36 |
| shardy | ready | 20:36 |
| markwash | ready | 20:36 |
| mordred | ready | 20:36 |
| notmyname | ready | 20:36 |
| gabrielhurley | ready | 20:36 |
| SergeyLukjanov | gabrielhurley, technically it's possible, but it's depend on approved project scope | 20:36 |
| markmc | ready | 20:36 |
| gabrielhurley | wait | 20:36 |
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| gabrielhurley | SergeyLukjanov: I think this is essential to the idea of scope | 20:37 |
| * ttx freezes | 20:37 | |
| gabrielhurley | is this part of your scope or not? | 20:37 |
| SergeyLukjanov | gabrielhurley, currently no | 20:37 |
| gabrielhurley | is your scope "hadoop" or "map reduce clustering"? | 20:37 |
| gabrielhurley | okay | 20:37 |
| gabrielhurley | thanks for clarifying | 20:37 |
| gabrielhurley | now ready | 20:37 |
| * mordred actually just held his breath tensely | 20:37 | |
| gabrielhurley | lol | 20:37 |
| ttx | (only TC members vote, thx) | 20:38 |
| ttx | #startvote Accept Savanna in incubation for the Icehouse cycle? yes, no, abstain | 20:38 |
| openstack | Begin voting on: Accept Savanna in incubation for the Icehouse cycle? Valid vote options are yes, no, abstain. | 20:38 |
| openstack | Vote using '#vote OPTION'. Only your last vote counts. | 20:38 |
| russellb | #vote yes | 20:38 |
| mikal | #vote yes | 20:38 |
| mordred | #vote yes | 20:38 |
| ttx | #vote abstain | 20:38 |
| notmyname | #vote no | 20:38 |
| jgriffith | #vote yes | 20:38 |
| markwash | #vote no | 20:38 |
| gabrielhurley | #vote no | 20:38 |
| markmc | #vote yes | 20:38 |
| *** mikal is now known as annegentle_proxy | 20:38 | |
| markmcclain | #vote no | 20:38 |
| shardy | #vote yes | 20:38 |
| dolphm | #vote no | 20:38 |
| annegentle_proxy | #vote yes | 20:38 |
| jd__ | #vote yes | 20:38 |
| *** annegentle_proxy is now known as mikal | 20:38 | |
| ttx | 30 more seconds | 20:38 |
| vishy | #vote yes | 20:38 |
| ttx | #endvote | 20:39 |
| openstack | Voted on "Accept Savanna in incubation for the Icehouse cycle?" Results are | 20:39 |
| openstack | yes (9): markmc, vishy, shardy, jd__, russellb, jgriffith, mikal, mordred, annegentle_proxy | 20:39 |
| openstack | abstain (1): ttx | 20:39 |
| openstack | no (5): gabrielhurley, dolphm, notmyname, markwash, markmcclain | 20:39 |
| ttx | That's a yes | 20:39 |
| mattf | <3 | 20:39 |
| ErikB | good call | 20:39 |
| markmc | congrats savannah folks | 20:39 |
| mattf | thank you | 20:39 |
| markmc | (too many to call out individually :) | 20:39 |
| vishy | ok now integrate better! | 20:39 |
| mordred | wow. we actually had a close vote! I'm proud of us! | 20:39 |
| ErikB | thank you | 20:39 |
| SergeyLukjanov | thank you | 20:39 |
| vishy | :) | 20:39 |
| aignatov | thank you a lot! | 20:39 |
| russellb | vishy: :) | 20:39 |
| IlyaE | thanks! | 20:39 |
| jgriffith | :) | 20:39 |
| jcooley | sweet! | 20:39 |
| akuznetsov | thank you | 20:40 |
| nadya | :) ! | 20:40 |
| russellb | thanks guys, i look forward to seeing what you do over the next 6 months | 20:40 |
| mordred | SergeyLukjanov: now you get to migrate to testr :) | 20:40 |
| gabrielhurley | indeed, congratulations and no hard feelings, I hope. I would still like to see more agnostic data processing and clustering instead of hadoop-specific. | 20:40 |
| jd__ | :) | 20:40 |
| ttx | Explanation for my abstain: I would actually have preferred to vote on this after the next design summit. But then I'm selfish. | 20:40 |
| mordred | ttx: I was going to give you a hard time about that | 20:40 |
| ttx | anyway, this is devil's advocate club | 20:40 |
| ttx | #topic Open discussion | 20:40 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:40 | |
| hub_cap | gratz savanna! hope to see you in the summit to chat trove! | 20:40 |
| hub_cap | (and heat) | 20:40 |
| ttx | The initial governance repo commit is still awaiting your reviews at: | 20:40 |
| mordred | ttx: so - sum up for me the state of the TC after this meeting | 20:40 |
| ttx | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/44489/ | 20:40 |
| SergeyLukjanov | hub_cap, yep, absolutely | 20:41 |
| ttx | Also PTL self-nomination in progress, closes Thursday | 20:41 |
| ttx | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/PTL_Elections_Fall_2013 | 20:41 |
| mikal | The PTL nominations make me sad | 20:41 |
| mattf | gabrielhurley, i'd like to see that too | 20:41 |
| russellb | notmyname: you running? :-) | 20:41 |
| markwash | mikal: please elaborate | 20:41 |
| mikal | I think all of those candidates are great, but I worry that we haven't managed to build a larger group of potential leaders | 20:41 |
| mordred | ttx: do we have a TC between now and the TC elections? | 20:41 |
| hub_cap | u mean the ptl single person per category cept for horizon mikal? | 20:41 |
| jgriffith | mikal: you're not running? | 20:41 |
| mikal | markwash: it just feels unhealthy | 20:41 |
| mordred | mikal: yah. there is only one contested electoin | 20:42 |
| notmyname | russellb: ya, just been doing fun stuff like debugging and airline bookings ;-) | 20:42 |
| ttx | mordred: the current TC is still in charge until October 17 | 20:42 |
| * mordred considered nominating myself as a second candidate in all elections | 20:42 | |
| mikal | jgriffith: that's a fair point, and I may yet. I did run last election... | 20:42 |
| mordred | just for funsies | 20:42 |
| jgriffith | I guess I'd rather see 1 candidate than 0 candidates | 20:42 |
| mordred | jgriffith: ++ | 20:42 |
| markwash | mordred: I think we should elect you for all of them if you do :-) | 20:42 |
| hub_cap | u know has anyone thoguht of that? | 20:42 |
| ttx | mordred: although it's good practice to avoid taking decisions while the vote is in progress... unless we are forced to | 20:42 |
| mordred | markwash: oh god. | 20:42 |
| hub_cap | what happens if u have 0 interested in a ptl for a 6mo? | 20:42 |
| mikal | jgriffith: that's true, but what happens when all our incubent PTLs go and work somewhere else? | 20:42 |
| ttx | markmcclain: ISTR you had a topic to raise ? | 20:42 |
| mordred | hub_cap: most active reviewer | 20:43 |
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| mordred | hub_cap: gets autonominated/becomes PTL | 20:43 |
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| markwash | mikal: fwiw I agree. . but I can see some of the reasons for it too | 20:43 |
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| hub_cap | hah srsly? is that in the "bylaws" (/me throws out lawyerspeak) | 20:43 |
| russellb | i think a project with nobody interested would probably be a dead project | 20:43 |
| markmcclain | ttx: yeah.. yesterday there was a thread on -infra about marconi and moving to pecan | 20:43 |
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| hub_cap | russellb: fair enough... | 20:43 |
| notmyname | mikal: a lot of us have moved around already, with no major changes ;-) | 20:43 |
| russellb | i suspect in many cases, if the incumbent stepped down, there would be multiple ready to jump on the election | 20:43 |
| jgriffith | mikal: incubents do step down | 20:43 |
| markmc | hub_cap, I think we'd be left with a ptl-less project | 20:43 |
| mordred | markmcclain: we had a NICE LONG discussion | 20:43 |
| markmcclain | do feel like we need to make it more official that moving to pecan is expected for graduation? | 20:43 |
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| markmc | hub_cap, which could be an interesting governance experiment | 20:43 |
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| hub_cap | maybe seeing only 1x per program means the ptls are doing a great job? :) | 20:44 |
| mordred | markmcclain: so far all we have is a design summit decision - the TC has not made such a graduation vote | 20:44 |
| markmc | hub_cap, personally, I think it would be totally sane to run a project based on consensus amongst core team members | 20:44 |
| mikal | Yeah, my concern isn't about reality, its about preception. A large block of single candidate elections _looks_ unhealthy. | 20:44 |
| hub_cap | markmc i agree | 20:44 |
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| russellb | mikal: perception to who? | 20:44 |
| mikal | And might also leave new people with the impression that they can't run because there's some cabal blessing process they missed out on. | 20:44 |
| mordred | markmcclain: I'm approaching it like the other "align on this" things - let's just beat heads together for a while until something comes out of it | 20:44 |
| shardy | markmc: +1 | 20:44 |
| hub_cap | mikal: i think that most people know what it takes to ptl things and maybe they are ok actually being commiters lol :) | 20:44 |
| mikal | russellb: potential adopters of openstack | 20:44 |
| jgriffith | markmc: hub_cap personally that's how I think it works anyway | 20:44 |
| markmc | heat, for example, rotates the ptl role | 20:45 |
| russellb | by all means, i'm not trying to discourage anyone from running, just didn't see it as alarming | 20:45 |
| mikal | One of the reasons people pick openstack is our healthy community | 20:45 |
| markmc | not because they want to, but because they have to | 20:45 |
| markmc | (AFAICT) | 20:45 |
| jgriffith | mikal: is there any sort of a proposal you have here to feel better? | 20:45 |
| gabrielhurley | FWIW, I think having competition in PTL elections is a really good thing. It's a sign people want the job and are passionate and engaged. | 20:45 |
| mikal | russellb: I am "sad" not "freaked out" | 20:45 |
| hub_cap | i like the heat approach, itll be interesting to see it as an experiment | 20:45 |
| jgriffith | mikal: ie term limits, required number of candidates etc | 20:45 |
| jd__ | elected or not, there's almost always someone acting like a PTL anyway if there's no such mechanism | 20:45 |
| mikal | jgriffith: not really | 20:45 |
| ttx | could we focus on markmcclain's question for a minute ? | 20:45 |
| mikal | jgriffith: just encouraging people to consider running | 20:46 |
| ttx | <markmcclain> ttx: yeah.. yesterday there was a thread on -infra about marconi and moving to pecan | 20:46 |
| mordred | jgriffith: term limits would mean someone other than notmyname would have to run swift!!! | 20:46 |
| shardy | markmc: because we have to? | 20:46 |
| ttx | <markmcclain> do feel like we need to make it more official that moving to pecan is expected for graduation? | 20:46 |
| markwash | mikal: I'm afraid that people are worried that losing an election might damage their ability work with the team moving forward | 20:46 |
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| mordred | ttx: ++ | 20:46 |
| jgriffith | mikal: got ya, and I'd agree | 20:46 |
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| markmc | shardy, well, you feel that there has to be a PTL - a PTLless heat doesn't feel like a realistic option, right? | 20:46 |
| * mikal defers responsing until after the pecan thing | 20:46 | |
| jd__ | ttx: markmcclain: that could be a request to get my vote for example, yes | 20:46 |
| jgriffith | mikal: but I'd also say PTL isn't exactly easy/fun | 20:46 |
| markmc | shardy, given our current governance structure | 20:46 |
| hub_cap | do we want to pull in the people who are opposed to pecan? doesnt marconi say no to pecan? | 20:46 |
| shardy | markmc: It's what we discussed and agreed, because we all wanted to maintain some productivity ;) | 20:46 |
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| mordred | hub_cap: they do not - it's on their todo list | 20:47 |
| jgriffith | mikal: I don't blame anyone for not wanting to do it | 20:47 |
| hub_cap | oh great mordred!!!! | 20:47 |
| shardy | markmc: Yes, basically we have no need for prescriptive leadership of the Heat team | 20:47 |
| * hub_cap shuts up | 20:47 | |
| mordred | I'd actually like to see if we can get moving on that without having the TC make a prescriptive call | 20:47 |
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| shardy | markmc: but we do need someone to click all-the-things in launchpad I guess ;) | 20:47 |
| mordred | shardy: did we both just use the word prescriptive | 20:47 |
| mordred | ? | 20:47 |
| shardy | mordred: I think I stole it from stevebakers's nomination ;) | 20:47 |
| jgriffith | wow... all PTL does is click buttons in LaunchPad? | 20:48 |
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| mordred | jgriffith: you can spend entire days doing that my friend | 20:48 |
| markmc | well, here's to such a nice group of people being elected to the next TC :) | 20:48 |
| mordred | markmc: +100 | 20:49 |
| jgriffith | mordred: you don't have to tell me... | 20:49 |
| shardy | jgriffith: well I was joking, but there are a lot of non-technical overhead tasks | 20:49 |
| russellb | jgriffith: if only | 20:49 |
| jgriffith | but I was getting at the suggestion that that's *all* it is | 20:49 |
| mordred | jgriffith: hopefully storyboard will fix that ... | 20:49 |
| hub_cap | ya ttx has scripts for all that jgriffith :) | 20:49 |
| notmyname | I think the kind of people who like or put up with the requirements of PTL are different than the skills that make a good contributor. and so perhaps many contributors are happy no being (or running) for PTL | 20:49 |
| mordred | right ttx ? | 20:49 |
| mikal | I think the way we show people that they can lose a PTL election and remain in the community is by doing it a bunch of times. I lost the nova ptl election last time around, and I haven't rage quite (yet). I still even sarcasticly goad russellb in back channels. | 20:49 |
| jgriffith | hub_cap: ha!! | 20:49 |
| shardy | jgriffith: like I said, poor attempt at humor ;) | 20:49 |
| hub_cap | +1 notmyname | 20:49 |
| jgriffith | shardy: nah... I get it, it was funny | 20:49 |
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| mordred | mikal: you should rage more | 20:50 |
| dolphm | notmyname: +++ | 20:50 |
| ttx | mordred: trying to see what was the question | 20:50 |
| mordred | ttx: mordred | jgriffith: hopefully storyboard will fix that ... | 20:50 |
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| mordred | ttx: in response to spending all day clicking buttons in launchpad | 20:50 |
| jd__ | storyboard? | 20:50 |
| markmc | heh | 20:50 |
| russellb | i have so much launchpad karma now, haha | 20:50 |
| jeblair | i believe mordred was suggesting that storyboard will eliminate the need for ptls ;) | 20:50 |
| russellb | where do i redeem it for cash | 20:50 |
| mordred | jeblair: ++ | 20:50 |
| mordred | russellb: shuttleworth's house | 20:51 |
| markmc | ttx, are you doing a design summit session on storyboard? | 20:51 |
| ttx | mordred: +0 :) | 20:51 |
| jgriffith | mordred: LOL | 20:51 |
| ttx | markmc: yes I will | 20:51 |
| mordred | ttx: you probably should | 20:51 |
| markmc | ttx, coolness | 20:51 |
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| hub_cap | +1 to story board session | 20:51 |
| ttx | I like to submit more sessions that I can actually do work in 6 months | 20:51 |
| ttx | Note that my "Meet the TC" proposal for the OpenStack Conference in Hong-Kong got accepted | 20:52 |
| ttx | It's a panel where anyone on the future TC will be able to participate (if available) | 20:52 |
| ttx | I think Monty has been working on securing the TC dinner too. | 20:52 |
| ttx | Just to encourage you all to run again :) | 20:52 |
| gabrielhurley | I expect good things for dinner | 20:52 |
| mordred | yes. I have official HP approval to pay for dinner this time | 20:52 |
| gabrielhurley | (if I'm re-elected) | 20:52 |
| markmc | we need bodyguards at the TC dinner? | 20:52 |
| mordred | if I'm re-elected | 20:52 |
| markmc | (lame joke) | 20:52 |
| mordred | markmc: wow man | 20:52 |
| hub_cap | oh great now mordred is a shoein | 20:52 |
| mikal | Ok, so people's election platform is now "I will buy you dinner"? | 20:53 |
| markmc | mordred, yeah :( | 20:53 |
| mordred | mikal: that's ALWAYS my platform | 20:53 |
| * jgriffith will buy drinks! | 20:53 | |
| devananda | mikal: i thought it was "I will buy you a ${drink}"? | 20:53 |
| markwash | mikal: I was going to promise free pizza and no homework | 20:53 |
| * russellb won't buy you anything | 20:53 | |
| jgriffith | if the bribe method is effective | 20:53 |
| russellb | VOTE FOR ME | 20:53 |
| mikal | I should announce my platform -- vote for me or I shall kick you in the shin | 20:53 |
| jgriffith | russellb: lol | 20:53 |
| hub_cap | lol russellb | 20:53 |
| lifeless | mikal: nice | 20:53 |
| gabrielhurley | mikal: ++ | 20:53 |
| devananda | lol | 20:53 |
| mordred | mikal: remind me to not bring my shins to Oz | 20:53 |
| * hub_cap sees what open discussion really means | 20:53 | |
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| mikal | Heh | 20:53 |
| markmc | hub_cap, "kill time until the next meeting" ? | 20:54 |
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| ttx | mikal: well, HP will pay dinner EVEN if mordred is not reelected, that's the beauty of it | 20:54 |
| hub_cap | i was thinking "pretend we are in -infra for 5 min" | 20:54 |
| mikal | ttx: OMG, HP rock! | 20:54 |
| ttx | mikal: they are so great. Nice printers, too | 20:54 |
| hub_cap | boss monitors for their employees :) | 20:54 |
| mikal | ttx: do they have a corporate song? | 20:54 |
| mikal | Every company should have a song | 20:55 |
| hub_cap | +1 and a danceline | 20:55 |
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| russellb | do we have an openstack song? | 20:55 |
| gabrielhurley | do you really have to ask? | 20:55 |
| russellb | i suppose we have a rap duo! | 20:55 |
| russellb | :) | 20:55 |
| mikal | russellb: we have several bad rap videos... | 20:55 |
| gabrielhurley | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3jUQ09Jf4GU | 20:55 |
| russellb | you mean awesome rap videos? | 20:55 |
| hub_cap | guys.... hip hop | 20:55 |
| gabrielhurley | mikal: I resemble that remark | 20:55 |
| hub_cap | CMON | 20:55 |
| jgriffith | geesh russellb !! | 20:55 |
| hub_cap | rap is so 90's | 20:55 |
| gabrielhurley | also, just wait... change is coming | 20:56 |
| mikal | I want an openstack boy band | 20:56 |
| russellb | yeah that was poor form for me to even ask | 20:56 |
| russellb | gabrielhurley: lol | 20:56 |
| russellb | <3 | 20:56 |
| jeblair | mikal: you are an openstack boy band | 20:56 |
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| ttx | gabrielhurley: any hint ? | 20:56 |
| russellb | heh, we could even #endmeeting first | 20:56 |
| mikal | jeblair: I can be the charmingly non-threatening one | 20:56 |
| russellb | so it's not on the record :-p | 20:56 |
| hub_cap | i dunno this is a interesting logged meeting lol | 20:56 |
| jeblair | mikal: that kicks people in the shin | 20:56 |
| gabrielhurley | several titles have been tossed around... one of the proposals is "How Can I Live (Without OpenStack)?" | 20:56 |
| hub_cap | specially jeblair's boy band comment lol | 20:56 |
| mikal | jeblair: gotta do what you gotta do | 20:57 |
| hub_cap | ttx: ICEHOUSE!!!! | 20:57 |
| lifeless | baby | 20:57 |
| hub_cap | nice | 20:57 |
| ttx | gabrielhurley: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lPPDuWAcMcc ? | 20:57 |
| russellb | i'm glad the Icehouse summit is out of the US ... someone might try to serve Icehouse beer if it were here | 20:57 |
| hub_cap | yes ttx ^ ^ perfect | 20:57 |
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| mikal | We can model our boy band off De Jour | 20:57 |
| gabrielhurley | lol | 20:57 |
| ttx | can't get that music out of my head | 20:58 |
| gabrielhurley | let's just say you're closer than you think | 20:58 |
| hub_cap | youve just infected the tc ttx | 20:58 |
| gabrielhurley | but not that. never that. | 20:58 |
| markwash | ttx: we can set up that lightshow cube thing in the dev lounge | 20:58 |
| hub_cap | +1 markwash | 20:59 |
| ttx | markwash: comes with a horse though* | 20:59 |
| ttx | ok, time to close this | 20:59 |
| markwash | ttx srsly this video is fantastic | 20:59 |
| markwash | naming choice completely redeemed | 20:59 |
| hub_cap | lol | 21:00 |
| ttx | #endmeeting | 21:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 21:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Sep 24 21:00:11 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 21:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2013/tc.2013-09-24-20.01.html | 21:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2013/tc.2013-09-24-20.01.txt | 21:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2013/tc.2013-09-24-20.01.log.html | 21:00 |
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| ttx | markmc, dolphm, notmyname, jd__, markwash, jgriffith, russellb, shardy, gabrielhurley, markmcclain: still around ? | 21:01 |
| notmyname | here | 21:01 |
| markmcclain | o/ | 21:01 |
| markmc | yep | 21:01 |
| markwash | hi | 21:01 |
| shardy | hi | 21:01 |
| gabrielhurley | \o | 21:01 |
| jgriffith | hola | 21:01 |
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| hartsocks | \o | 21:01 |
| dolphm | o/ | 21:01 |
| ttx | #startmeeting project | 21:01 |
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| openstack | Meeting started Tue Sep 24 21:01:25 2013 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is ttx. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 21:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 21:01 |
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| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: project)" | 21:01 | |
| ttx | #link http://wiki.openstack.org/Meetings/ProjectMeeting | 21:01 |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'project' | 21:01 |
| russellb | o/ | 21:01 |
| ttx | #topic General stuff | 21:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "General stuff (Meeting topic: project)" | 21:01 | |
| ttx | No project has published an RC1 yet (excet Trove but that doesn't count) | 21:01 |
| ttx | except* | 21:01 |
| russellb | poor trove | 21:02 |
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| ttx | Remember that all projects can come up with their RC1 at different times, whenever they empty their release-critical bug lists | 21:02 |
| ttx | (and they want to open the Icehouse gates) | 21:02 |
| ttx | Ideally all projects would publish before the end of the month (in one week), giving ample time for additional testing and potential RC respins | 21:02 |
| adam_g | Heya! The stable-maint team have 2013.1.4 releasing Oct 10th and will be freezing stable/grizzly branches next week in preparation. Please tag any bugs for backport and help us test! We had some regressions slip through for 2013.1.3 and would be great to catch those with testing pre-release if possible | 21:03 |
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| ttx | adam_g: heh, you'll have competition on the testing front :) | 21:03 |
| lifeless | I have a question for TripleO; we're merging the Tuskar effort into TripleO; have the process docs for incubation and integration been updated to handle new services from existing Programs? | 21:03 |
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| ttx | lifeless: they shouldn't be... resistant to any change | 21:04 |
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| ttx | lifeless: though I wouldn't bet there isn't some hidden wiki page still using old cosmology | 21:04 |
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| lifeless | ttx: We'll report bugs as we find them then? Would like to have tuskar-api as a stable integrated thing in I | 21:05 |
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| ttx | lifeless: updating the list of projects on your program landing page should do the trick | 21:05 |
| ttx | sdague, annegentle, mordred: news from the fantastic QA/Docs/Infra programs ? | 21:05 |
| mordred | ttx: well, we had a gate break this morning, but it's fixed now | 21:05 |
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| sdague | well, after morning firedrill we have a working gate again | 21:05 |
| ttx | mordred, sdague: any way we can prevent this from happening again ? From what I saw it could just happen any time | 21:06 |
| sdague | I think the other notable thing to keep an eye on is the elasticrecheck work that jog0 and mtreinish have been doing, which should make finding recheck bugs a lot easier | 21:06 |
| ttx | with random libs bumping their requirements | 21:06 |
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| mordred | ttx: there is a corner case that got triggered, normally that should be handled | 21:06 |
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| mordred | ttx: but we are looking at ways to make it more robust | 21:07 |
| ttx | mordred: ok | 21:07 |
| sdague | ttx: so... we've got this theory of chasing some of our dep libs in the infrastructure to give us early warnings on that | 21:07 |
| mordred | also.... | 21:07 |
| sdague | I expect we'll talk about it in HK, and get pieces going in icehouse | 21:07 |
| mordred | we may need to address stable branches and requirements in more depth | 21:07 |
| mordred | but yeah, hk | 21:07 |
| jeblair | ttx: in general, anyone should be able to fix cases where external deps break us | 21:07 |
| jeblair | cases where infra intervention is required to fix that are bugs (and i believe mordred is fixing or has proposed fixes for those) | 21:08 |
| ttx | jeblair: +1 | 21:08 |
| ttx | anything else on the "general stuff" ? | 21:08 |
| ttx | OK, let's go into project-specific details now | 21:09 |
| ttx | #topic Oslo status | 21:09 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Oslo status (Meeting topic: project)" | 21:09 | |
| ttx | markmc: bonsoir | 21:09 |
| ttx | #link https://launchpad.net/oslo/+milestone/havana-rc1 | 21:09 |
| markmc | howdy | 21:09 |
| annegentle | nothing from me | 21:09 |
| markmc | I'm behind on triaging | 21:09 |
| * markmc holds his hands up :) | 21:09 | |
| ttx | annegentle: cool ;) | 21:09 |
| lifeless | ttx: 'program specific details' :P | 21:09 |
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| * lifeless may be wrong | 21:10 | |
| ttx | lifeless: program/project. | 21:10 |
| markmc | I had a quick look through untriaged bugs | 21:10 |
| ttx | markmc: so you expect more than those 2 targeted bugs between you and stable/havana for oslo-incubator ? | 21:10 |
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| markmc | specifically looking for oslo.config issues before tagging 1.2.0 earlier | 21:11 |
| markmc | this one is about the only one that looked like a potential release blocker: | 21:11 |
| markmc | https://bugs.launchpad.net/oslo/+bug/1229475 | 21:11 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1229475 in python-neutronclient "From oslo rpc: RuntimeError: Second simultaneous read on fileno 16 detected" [Undecided,New] | 21:11 |
| markmc | but I haven't looked too carefully | 21:11 |
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| markmc | jog0, any thoughts on that ? ^ | 21:11 |
| markmc | will triage it and the rest properly tomorrow | 21:11 |
| * markmc sticks #1229475 on the rc1 milestone so he doesn't forget it | 21:11 | |
| ttx | markmc: you should be all set by the end of the week ? (to branch oslo-incubator, at least) | 21:12 |
| markmc | ttx, unless something else crops up | 21:12 |
| ttx | markmc: ok, I'll be in touch | 21:12 |
| ttx | Questions about Oslo ? | 21:12 |
| markmc | I'm ready to branch oslo.config now | 21:12 |
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| ttx | markmc: do you actually have stable branches for oslo.* ? | 21:13 |
| * ttx is suddenly uncertain | 21:14 | |
| markmc | ttx, I had a stable/grizzly for oslo.config 1.1.x | 21:14 |
| markmc | ttx, and needed it | 21:14 |
| ttx | markmc: ok then :) | 21:14 |
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| markmc | ttx, :) | 21:14 |
| ttx | markmc: just ping me if/when you need me | 21:14 |
| ttx | #topic Keystone status | 21:14 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Keystone status (Meeting topic: project)" | 21:14 | |
| dolphm | o/ | 21:14 |
| ttx | dolphm: hi! | 21:14 |
| ttx | #link https://launchpad.net/keystone/+milestone/havana-rc1 | 21:14 |
| ttx | 3 targeted bugs... does that represent all your known RC issues ? | 21:15 |
| dolphm | yes sir! | 21:15 |
| ttx | Looks like we should be able to cut a RC1 for you later this week ? | 21:15 |
| dolphm | that is my goal | 21:15 |
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| ttx | that would be great | 21:15 |
| dolphm | bug 1221889 has proven to be a fairly complex process to fix | 21:16 |
| ttx | keep an eye on incoming reports to make sure nothing critical creeped in | 21:16 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1221889 in keystone "Invalid X-Subject-Token results in HTTP 401 rather than 404" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1221889 | 21:16 |
| dolphm | it's the only one i'm concerned about at this point, and it *could* be dropped from RC list if necessary | 21:16 |
| dolphm | it's just a very strong nice to have | 21:16 |
| dolphm | otherwise, will do! | 21:16 |
| ttx | Other news / questions about Keystone ? | 21:16 |
| dolphm | that is all | 21:16 |
| ttx | #topic Ceilometer status | 21:17 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Ceilometer status (Meeting topic: project)" | 21:17 | |
| ttx | jd__: hey | 21:17 |
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| ttx | #link https://launchpad.net/ceilometer/+milestone/havana-rc1 | 21:17 |
| jd__ | bonsoir | 21:17 |
| ttx | 8 targeted bugs | 21:17 |
| ttx | At your current speed you should have them fixed before the end of the week. RC1 then ? | 21:18 |
| jd__ | fine with me | 21:18 |
| jd__ | finger crossed nothing new's coming in | 21:18 |
| ttx | jd__: trust me, something will come in :) | 21:18 |
| jd__ | na problem, we're ready. | 21:18 |
| ttx | I'll keep an eye on your last bugs and ping you when RC1 looks ready | 21:18 |
| ttx | Other news / questions about Ceilometer ? | 21:19 |
| jd__ | all good :) | 21:19 |
| ttx | #topic Swift status | 21:19 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Swift status (Meeting topic: project)" | 21:19 | |
| ttx | notmyname: o/ | 21:19 |
| notmyname | hello | 21:19 |
| ttx | #link https://launchpad.net/swift/+milestone/1.9.3-rc1 | 21:19 |
| ttx | (I renamed it to -rc1 because that's the version we actually want to tag at this point) | 21:19 |
| ttx | I see two features open on the roadmap: multiple-domains-in-domain-remap and diskfile-databasebroker-as-apis | 21:20 |
| ttx | Are those the two ones you'd like to see completed before we issue the -rc1 ? | 21:20 |
| notmyname | we'll probably 1.10.0, but that's easy whenever it needs to happen | 21:20 |
| ttx | sure | 21:20 |
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| notmyname | the bug on there is a big deal. working on it now | 21:20 |
| ttx | bug 1174660 | 21:20 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1174660 in swift/havana "when client disconnected, garbage collecting is too heavy" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1174660 | 21:20 |
| notmyname | https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Swift/PriorityReviews is the set of patches we are looking at | 21:20 |
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| ttx | notmyname: ok | 21:21 |
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| ttx | What's your educated guess for a RC1 ETA with all this ? | 21:21 |
| notmyname | Early next week, but we'll reevaluate at the end of this week | 21:21 |
| ttx | notmyname: Note, since we're doing a RC dance on this release, we can tag the RC1 before internal QA runs, and just open a RC2 window if those QA runs find critical issues. | 21:22 |
| notmyname | right | 21:22 |
| ttx | notmyname: in unrelated news, if you want to run for Swift PTL you should probably post your candidacy soon. | 21:22 |
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| notmyname | as soon as all the IRC meetings are done, I will ;-) | 21:22 |
| ttx | Other news / questions about Swift ? | 21:22 |
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| notmyname | swift hackathon/sprint coming up in a few weeks | 21:23 |
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| notmyname | oracle announces some swift support with their new stuff today ;-) | 21:23 |
| ttx | with texan bbq built in, I heard ? | 21:23 |
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| notmyname | yup :-) | 21:23 |
| ttx | (the hackaton, not oracle) | 21:23 |
| notmyname | heh | 21:23 |
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| notmyname | lot's of fat, either way, I'm sure | 21:23 |
| notmyname | /done | 21:24 |
| ttx | #topic Glance status | 21:24 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Glance status (Meeting topic: project)" | 21:24 | |
| markwash | yay, me! | 21:24 |
| ttx | markwash: yay you | 21:24 |
| ttx | #link https://launchpad.net/glance/+milestone/havana-rc1 | 21:24 |
| markwash | lol | 21:24 |
| ttx | 5 targeted bugs at this point... | 21:24 |
| markwash | 1 critical | 21:25 |
| markwash | 2 highs | 21:25 |
| ttx | With your current veolcity you should hit the bottom of that list early next week too | 21:25 |
| ttx | if you don't add too many new ones | 21:25 |
| markwash | I'd like to aim for end of this week for rc1 | 21:25 |
| ttx | markwash: I encourage you to! | 21:25 |
| markwash | I think we can do it | 21:25 |
| ttx | and you like challenges | 21:26 |
| ttx | Other news / questions about Glance ? | 21:26 |
| markwash | None from me | 21:26 |
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| ttx | now for more.. interesting projects | 21:27 |
| ttx | #topic Neutron status | 21:27 |
| markwash | :-( | 21:27 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Neutron status (Meeting topic: project)" | 21:27 | |
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| markmcclain | hi | 21:27 |
| ttx | markwash: you don't really want to be that kind of "interesting", trust me | 21:27 |
| markwash | ah, fair point | 21:27 |
| ttx | markmcclain: hi! | 21:27 |
| ttx | #link https://launchpad.net/neutron/+milestone/havana-rc1 | 21:27 |
| ttx | markmcclain: did you just bump a bp out ? | 21:28 |
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| ttx | ipv6-feature-parity ? | 21:28 |
| markmcclain | yes | 21:28 |
| markmcclain | concerned about stability this late | 21:29 |
| ttx | So configurable-ip-allocation is the last standing FFe we have | 21:29 |
| markmcclain | would rather let it bake longer | 21:29 |
| ttx | markmcclain: I'm all for getting rid of it if it's not 99.9% safe now | 21:29 |
| ttx | configurable-ip-allocation has been around forever... any reason why it might suddenly land ? | 21:29 |
| markmcclain | it's likely to suffer the same fate | 21:30 |
| ttx | (can't find code under review yet :/) | 21:30 |
| ttx | when is your cut date for a decision on this ? | 21:30 |
| markmcclain | eod | 21:31 |
| ttx | markmcclain: ok, keep me posted on your decision | 21:31 |
| markmcclain | will do | 21:31 |
| ttx | In the mean time, on the bugs side, 34 targeted bugs | 21:31 |
| ttx | which is a lot, but then your bugfix velocity is not too bad | 21:32 |
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| ttx | I'm just concerned that the curves still go up at http://old-wiki.openstack.org/rc/ | 21:32 |
| ttx | which means you add more than you fix | 21:32 |
| ttx | with all that I still fear you might miss the end-of-month target though... | 21:32 |
| markmcclain | I share the same concern | 21:32 |
| ttx | How about separating between must-have bugfixes (targeted to rc1) and nice-to-have bugfixes (tagged havana-rc-potential) ? | 21:32 |
| markmcclain | that's the plan | 21:33 |
| ttx | ok | 21:33 |
| ttx | Other news / questions about Neutron ? | 21:33 |
| markmcclain | nothing else from me | 21:33 |
| ttx | will keep on nagging you this week :) | 21:34 |
| ttx | #topic Cinder status | 21:34 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Cinder status (Meeting topic: project)" | 21:34 | |
| ttx | jgriffith: hola! | 21:34 |
| ttx | #link https://launchpad.net/cinder/+milestone/havana-rc1 | 21:34 |
| jgriffith | hey | 21:34 |
| ttx | 4 targeted bugs... does that represent all your known RC issues ? | 21:34 |
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| jgriffith | yes, all the ones I'm willing to tackle/risk for RC | 21:35 |
| ttx | ok... looks like you should be all set in a couple of days. RC1 then ? | 21:35 |
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| jgriffith | Shooting for tmorrow afternoon, thurs morning | 21:35 |
| ttx | jgriffith: sounds good | 21:35 |
| jgriffith | unless something unexpected appears | 21:35 |
| ttx | always a possibility/certainty | 21:35 |
| ttx | Other news / questions about Cinder ? | 21:35 |
| jgriffith | backups will have to be broken for multi-backend | 21:35 |
| ttx | jgriffith: could you elaborate on that ? | 21:36 |
| jgriffith | nope, not rom me | 21:36 |
| jgriffith | it turns out that backup service is already suffering from neglect a bit | 21:36 |
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| jgriffith | it was never tested/checked with multiple volume backends configured | 21:36 |
| jgriffith | and it relies on a single one to one relationship | 21:36 |
| ttx | jgriffith: sounds like something the release notes should mention | 21:36 |
| jgriffith | for sure | 21:36 |
| ttx | which makes me think I should probably bootstrap those | 21:37 |
| jgriffith | unless my hack I'm trying out right now works | 21:37 |
| jgriffith | :) | 21:37 |
| ttx | #action ttx to bootstrap release notes doc | 21:37 |
| jgriffith | but it reveals bigger issues in the backup code | 21:37 |
| jgriffith | which may mean I | 21:37 |
| jgriffith | anyway | 21:37 |
| jgriffith | either way, I'll make the appropriate adjustment | 21:37 |
| ttx | ok, thanks for raising the flag | 21:38 |
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| jgriffith | yup | 21:38 |
| ttx | #topic Nova status | 21:38 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Nova status (Meeting topic: project)" | 21:38 | |
| ttx | russellb: hi! | 21:38 |
| ttx | #link https://launchpad.net/nova/+milestone/havana-rc1 | 21:38 |
| russellb | hi! | 21:38 |
| ttx | 23 targeted bugs, should be ok if you don't add too many new ones | 21:38 |
| russellb | yeah, aggressively taking things off | 21:39 |
| ttx | there are a few unassigned ones like bug 1227027 | 21:39 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1227027 in ossa "Insecure directory permissions with snapshot code" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1227027 | 21:39 |
| russellb | good point | 21:39 |
| ttx | We should target an RC1 early next week ? | 21:39 |
| russellb | I think so | 21:40 |
| russellb | just a couple High ones unassigned that are the biggest risk | 21:40 |
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| ttx | we'll do a new checkpoint analysis in a few days and see how it evolved | 21:40 |
| ttx | Other news / questions about Nova ? | 21:40 |
| ttx | #topic Heat status | 21:41 |
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| *** openstack changes topic to "Heat status (Meeting topic: project)" | 21:41 | |
| ttx | shardy: o/ | 21:41 |
| shardy | o/ | 21:41 |
| ttx | #link https://launchpad.net/heat/+milestone/havana-rc1 | 21:41 |
| ttx | 20 targeted bugs... confident you can hit RC1 before the end of month with so many blockers ? | 21:42 |
| shardy | So many of the in progress bugs have patches up, some of which are just stuck behind the gate | 21:42 |
| ttx | ok | 21:42 |
| shardy | ttx: Yes, I think so, we're getting through the reviews, there's only two or three which I'm concerned about | 21:42 |
| shardy | one worth mentioning is bug #1222830 | 21:42 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1222830 in heat "Creation of OS::Ceilometer::Alarm fails" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1222830 | 21:42 |
| shardy | That needs a requirements bump to ceilometerclient | 21:42 |
| shardy | is it too late for that to happen? | 21:43 |
| shardy | (in the global requirements, ref https://review.openstack.org/#/c/47994/) | 21:43 |
| ttx | shardy: no, that would be fine in my book | 21:43 |
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| ttx | it's not as if you introduced a new, non-openstack-produced dep | 21:44 |
| shardy | ttx: Ok, thanks | 21:44 |
| ttx | shardy: just make sure you communicate that (why and what) to the ML to make sure everyone is aware of it | 21:44 |
| ttx | that's making sure of making sure. | 21:45 |
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| ttx | It's late here. | 21:45 |
| shardy | ttx: Ok will do | 21:45 |
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| ttx | Other news / questions about Heat ? | 21:45 |
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| shardy | not from me, thanks! | 21:45 |
| ttx | #topic Horizon status | 21:46 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Horizon status (Meeting topic: project)" | 21:46 | |
| ttx | gabrielhurley: o/ | 21:46 |
| gabrielhurley | \o | 21:46 |
| ttx | #link https://launchpad.net/horizon/+milestone/havana-rc1 | 21:46 |
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| * ttx refreshes | 21:46 | |
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| ttx | 27 targeted bugs | 21:46 |
| gabrielhurley | RC1 had a long bug list (lots related to the two FFEs, and to translation fixes) | 21:46 |
| gabrielhurley | our pace is good though | 21:46 |
| gabrielhurley | I think about a week and we should be done | 21:47 |
| ttx | velocity in last two weeks: 53 fixes | 21:47 |
| gabrielhurley | so just about right | 21:47 |
| ttx | so with your current velocity and not adding new bugs you should hit the target | 21:47 |
| gabrielhurley | that's the idea | 21:47 |
| gabrielhurley | there's only a couple of "high" priority bugs as it is | 21:48 |
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| ttx | Otherwise just split between true blockers (targeted to havana-rc1) and targets of opportunity (tagged "havana-rc-potential") | 21:48 |
| gabrielhurley | if we're down to the wire and some lows don't get fixed... well, we can discuss that if it comes to that | 21:48 |
| ttx | right | 21:48 |
| ttx | we can revisit that towards the end of the week and see if we need to correct the course | 21:48 |
| gabrielhurley | but if the goal is to cut the RC next week I think we'll get everything in | 21:48 |
| gabrielhurley | indeed | 21:48 |
| ttx | will all depend on the quantity of additions to the list | 21:49 |
| gabrielhurley | true | 21:49 |
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| ttx | gabrielhurley: It's also better if targeted bugs have assignees :) Gives more confidence they might actually get completed in the next days. | 21:49 |
| gabrielhurley | yep. will take care of divvying up the remainder in the Horizon meeting next | 21:50 |
| ttx | they can always be reassigned if need be | 21:50 |
| gabrielhurley | of course | 21:50 |
| ttx | ok | 21:50 |
| ttx | Other news / questions about Horizon ? | 21:50 |
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| gabrielhurley | translation efforts are going well. more translators, reviewers there are always helpful | 21:50 |
| gabrielhurley | that's about it | 21:51 |
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| ttx | #topic Incubated projects | 21:51 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Incubated projects (Meeting topic: project)" | 21:51 | |
| hub_cap | woah almost 10 whole minutes this time! | 21:51 |
| ttx | (that's for havana-cincubated projects) | 21:51 |
| ttx | devananda, hub_cap: hello! | 21:51 |
| devananda | ttx: hi! | 21:51 |
| hub_cap | rc1 is cut for trove, havent yet sent out to ML, waiting on seeing someone else do it first so i can copy-pasta the email | 21:52 |
| ttx | hub_cap: that's a good sign :) | 21:52 |
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| ttx | hub_cap: Any sign of a need for a RC2 ? | 21:52 |
| ttx | no critical bug ? | 21:52 |
| hub_cap | nope i dont think so | 21:52 |
| hub_cap | we are focused on icehouse features right now | 21:52 |
| hub_cap | no critical buggies | 21:52 |
| devananda | ttx: i've moved BPs to icehouse. as before, no RC for ironic this time around. | 21:52 |
| ttx | hub_cap: that's fine... just keep an eye on reported bugs | 21:52 |
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| hub_cap | aye | 21:52 |
| ttx | devananda: as planned, wfm | 21:53 |
| ttx | Any question ? | 21:53 |
| hub_cap | nope, not here | 21:53 |
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| ttx | well then, let's close early | 21:54 |
| hub_cap | woo!! | 21:54 |
| hub_cap | hugs | 21:54 |
| ttx | I somehow feel like the next release meetings will be more busy | 21:54 |
| devananda | no ? here either :) | 21:54 |
| ttx | awesome | 21:55 |
| ttx | #endmeeting | 21:55 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 21:55 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Sep 24 21:55:05 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 21:55 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/project/2013/project.2013-09-24-21.01.html | 21:55 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/project/2013/project.2013-09-24-21.01.txt | 21:55 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/project/2013/project.2013-09-24-21.01.log.html | 21:55 |
| ttx | thanks everyone | 21:55 |
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| ttx | things looking good from where I stand | 21:55 |
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| hub_cap | horray! thx ttx | 21:56 |
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| gabrielhurley | #startmeeting horizon | 22:02 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Sep 24 22:02:18 2013 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is gabrielhurley. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 22:02 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 22:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: horizon)" | 22:02 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'horizon' | 22:02 |
| gabrielhurley | Hello folks | 22:02 |
| julim | hi there | 22:02 |
| david-lyle | Hello | 22:02 |
| lsmola_ | hello | 22:02 |
| lblanchard | hello | 22:02 |
| gabrielhurley | #topic overview | 22:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "overview (Meeting topic: horizon)" | 22:02 | |
| gabrielhurley | So, the main business at hand is the RC | 22:03 |
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| gabrielhurley | The goal is to get our RC1 buglist down to zero within a week, cut the RC, and reopen trunk for Icehouse next week | 22:03 |
| gabrielhurley | our velocity lately supports the idea that we can do this :-) | 22:04 |
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| gabrielhurley | the remaining 20-something bugs are split equally between in progress and confirmed, and none of them strike me as exceptionally hard problems, just quick diagnose-and-fix issues. | 22:04 |
| gabrielhurley | so I think overall we're in good shape as long as we keep up the pace this week. | 22:04 |
| gabrielhurley | two other items of business... | 22:05 |
| gabrielhurley | 1. I've been asked to remind people about the OpenStack User Survey: http://www.openstack.org/blog/2013/09/participate-in-the-openstack-user-survey-by-september-30/ | 22:05 |
| gabrielhurley | the Horizon team has particularly valuable insight in this area | 22:05 |
| gabrielhurley | even if we don't always consider ourselves "users", we consume more of openstack on a more regular basis than most people | 22:06 |
| gabrielhurley | so make your opinions heard | 22:06 |
| gabrielhurley | the results definitely matter to the foundation and to the TC/PTLs | 22:06 |
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| gabrielhurley | 2. PTL nominations are this week (most of you probably already know that). Myself and david-lyle are both candidates. I just wanna make sure everyone knows that I think having multiple people running for PTL is a great thing and shows the health of our community! Whether he is elected or I am we're all gonna keep working together, so I don't want anyone worrying about voting one way or the other. Vote for who you think | 22:08 |
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| david-lyle | +1 | 22:08 |
| gabrielhurley | Any questions on any of those items? | 22:09 |
| gabrielhurley | Cool. Feel free to ask at any point if anything comes to mind. | 22:10 |
| gabrielhurley | #topic bugs | 22:10 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "bugs (Meeting topic: horizon)" | 22:10 | |
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| gabrielhurley | There are 6 unassigned bugs (I just claimed two). It'd be great to get assignees on those sooner rather than later just so we know everything's covered | 22:10 |
| gabrielhurley | https://launchpad.net/horizon/+milestone/havana-rc1 | 22:10 |
| gabrielhurley | I don't have any specific items on the list that concern me. Does anyone else want to raise specific bugs? | 22:11 |
| gabrielhurley | I'll take that as a no. ;-) | 22:12 |
| gabrielhurley | again, if anything comes to mind, feel free to jump in at any point | 22:12 |
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| gabrielhurley | #topic open discussion | 22:12 |
| david-lyle | I've finally been able to play with the trove panels on a live backend and finding issues, I think with the bug fixes I posted the base use case for instances will work, I have not tried backups yet | 22:12 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: horizon)" | 22:12 | |
| gabrielhurley | david-lyle: I reviewed your patch earlier. It looked good to me. | 22:13 |
| david-lyle | Thanks, I think we can do better in Icehouse, but this will allow it to work in Havana | 22:13 |
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| gabrielhurley | yep. this is a super-early-adopters feature | 22:14 |
| lsmola_ | gabrielhurley, if I may, I have one regarding https://blueprints.launchpad.net/horizon/+spec/ceilometer-hosts-measurement | 22:14 |
| gabrielhurley | sure | 22:14 |
| lsmola_ | gabrielhurley, just a little introduction | 22:14 |
| lsmola_ | gabrielhurley, the Tuskar project just merged to tripleo, so we are kind of Tripleo-UI now | 22:14 |
| gabrielhurley | yeah, I heard that in the project meeting before this | 22:15 |
| gabrielhurley | seems sane | 22:15 |
| gabrielhurley | there's certainly common interests | 22:15 |
| lsmola_ | gabrielhurley, now I was talking about tracking hardware in Horizon with mrunge | 22:15 |
| gabrielhurley | the idea of a Hardware dashboard in the BP is good in my mind, as long as we can bring everything together meaningfully | 22:15 |
| lsmola_ | gabrielhurley, seems that you are planning some sort of infrastructure tab | 22:16 |
| gabrielhurley | Triple-O/Tuskar is the missing piece to that | 22:16 |
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| gabrielhurley | me personally? | 22:16 |
| lsmola_ | well | 22:16 |
| lsmola_ | the Horizon | 22:16 |
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| david-lyle | I think that was part of the IA proposal jcoufal pu forward | 22:16 |
| lblanchard | lsmola: that was an idea that jcoufal and I had :) | 22:16 |
| david-lyle | s/pu/put | 22:16 |
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| lsmola_ | we will be making such a tab in Tuskar | 22:16 |
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| david-lyle | sorry, and lblanchard | 22:17 |
| lblanchard | david-lyle: no worries! | 22:17 |
| lsmola_ | and it seems, as part of tripleo, we will likely merge to Horiyon UI at some point | 22:17 |
| gabrielhurley | nope. when Nebula firs started out we added a hardware dashboard to Horizon in our fork because it's very useful. Nebula no longer uses Horizon as our primary interface so that's gone now, but since OpenStack is gaining hardware capabilities and has a lot more data in that arena now, I think it's great to shift that into the open core of the dashboard. | 22:17 |
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| julim | +1 | 22:18 |
| david-lyle | It makes sense, and since it will be service availability and role based, should be a good addition | 22:18 |
| gabrielhurley | I personally think "Hardware" is a preferrable term to "Infrastructure" just so we don't get muddled in Infrastructure as a Service terminology. | 22:18 |
| lblanchard | agreed! | 22:19 |
| gabrielhurley | david-lyle: totally | 22:19 |
| gabrielhurley | though if we get into the tuskar side of managing the services themselves... | 22:19 |
| lblanchard | this will hopefully be a big piece to the IA discussion | 22:19 |
| gabrielhurley | hardware isn't quite right for that... | 22:19 |
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| gabrielhurley | I'll leave the naming for the IA discussion | 22:19 |
| lsmola_ | so my point is, as we will be implementing that in Tuskar, we could prepare it for the merge | 22:19 |
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| lsmola_ | I just wanted to track, what hardware statistics are available in that BP | 22:20 |
| gabrielhurley | isn't that more of a question for the ceilometer team? | 22:20 |
| lsmola_ | gabrielhurley, well | 22:20 |
| gabrielhurley | the data-gathering isn't Horizon's business | 22:20 |
| lsmola_ | yes | 22:21 |
| lsmola_ | it regards the showing of the data | 22:21 |
| gabrielhurley | I suspect it's going to vary by deployment and hardware as well | 22:21 |
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| lsmola_ | that concerns several pages with hardware based statistics and alarms | 22:21 |
| gabrielhurley | there are two ways to go: design for an ideal case and know how to pare things out of the design that don't exist yet; or design for what we know we can have as a base guaranteed set and know how we scale to N. | 22:22 |
| lsmola_ | My point is, whether it is a good idea to start it in Tuskar, and then merge it to Horizon | 22:22 |
| david-lyle | I think you have to | 22:22 |
| lsmola_ | or the Horizon will go parallel way, at cost of some effort duplication | 22:22 |
| gabrielhurley | I think in the IA discussion we should see how much of the existing admin dashboard belongs there, and that'll help determine whether we should start things from our end or yours | 22:22 |
| david-lyle | or is it all ceilometer based data? and not tuskar? | 22:23 |
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| gabrielhurley | If we decide we should have that grouping already, then there's no sense in waiting on y'all. If we've got nothing without you, then we shouldn't start it on our end. | 22:23 |
| gabrielhurley | david-lyle: my impression is both | 22:23 |
| lsmola_ | well | 22:24 |
| david-lyle | ok, so the ceilometer based data makes sense, but tuskar would be a harder dependency to justify | 22:24 |
| lsmola_ | it should be possible to show just Ceilometer stats, if no Tuskar API is available | 22:24 |
| lsmola_ | if the Tuskar API will be available, it will show more stats + management | 22:24 |
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| gabrielhurley | regrouping what we know from Nova and Cinder and Ceilometer about hosts gives us a starting point. I'm just not sure if it's enough to justify our reorganizing things in I right yet. | 22:25 |
| gabrielhurley | Tuskar/Triple-O won't even graduate until the end of I at best, so we'd be looking at using their data in J | 22:25 |
| lsmola_ | yeah my assumption was that we would make it in I | 22:26 |
| gabrielhurley | I don't want to make a decision here without having the IA discussion and seeing some proposals around what this would look like with and without TripleO/Tuskar. It may make sense for us to start building it on our own in I and giving you hooks to add into, or it may not. I'm not gonna know that for sure 'til the summit. | 22:27 |
| lsmola_ | ok that make sense | 22:27 |
| gabrielhurley | the general concept totally has my blessing though | 22:28 |
| lsmola_ | ok | 22:28 |
| lsmola_ | it was just for starting a discussion | 22:28 |
| gabrielhurley | we'll keep following up on this regularly to make sure we do the right thing | 22:28 |
| gabrielhurley | absolutely. thank nyou | 22:28 |
| gabrielhurley | I never want to discourage people who are passionate to work on something :-) | 22:28 |
| lsmola_ | As i poke about it, i have noticed a lot of similar stuff, that could be worth doing on one place, rather then duplicating | 22:29 |
| lsmola_ | gabrielhurley, cool, thank you very much | 22:29 |
| gabrielhurley | I totally agree | 22:29 |
| lblanchard | I'd definitely hope we could reuse design and code no matter where it's implemented to start! | 22:29 |
| gabrielhurley | I had hoped to do more IA improvement work in H but the quantity of new features/APIs/projects we had to support turned out to be way beyond what I'd expected | 22:29 |
| gabrielhurley | this has been a heck of a release cycle | 22:30 |
| gabrielhurley | OH | 22:30 |
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| gabrielhurley | that reminds me of something I was gonna mention | 22:30 |
| gabrielhurley | I'm gonna put together the release notes for H this week, and they're pretty impressive. | 22:30 |
| lsmola_ | lblanchard, yeah but as the Tuskar will get merged to Horizon rather late, it might make sense to start implementing the common things to Horizon | 22:31 |
| gabrielhurley | I had a call with the OpenStack marketing folks this morning to tell them about what they could advertise and prmote as the new hotness in H, and it was not a short list. :_0 | 22:31 |
| gabrielhurley | wrong smiley... :-) | 22:31 |
| lsmola_ | cool | 22:31 |
| lblanchard | awesome!! | 22:31 |
| gabrielhurley | So I'll get a review up for those release notes soon, and would love to get eyes on it to make sure I didn't miss stuff that people care strongly about | 22:31 |
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| gabrielhurley | that's all I've got. Anything else? | 22:32 |
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| amotoki | i am a topic about importing translation. | 22:33 |
| lsmola_ | lblanchard, will zou have time this week for some basic wireframes for statistic pages? | 22:33 |
| lsmola_ | amotoki, sorry, go ahead | 22:33 |
| gabrielhurley | amotoki: please share | 22:33 |
| amotoki | daisy and i are working on translation. i will propose a patch to import translation with 100% completed. | 22:34 |
| amotoki | when is RC1 cut date? | 22:34 |
| amotoki | i will make sure to import them before it. | 22:35 |
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| gabrielhurley | it's not a hard date | 22:35 |
| gabrielhurley | the earliest possible would be Monday, but I really don't expect it until Wednesday or Thursday next week. | 22:35 |
| amotoki | i will propose a patch this week. | 22:35 |
| gabrielhurley | even if the RC1 list was all green I'd probably tell Thierry not to cut it until after we have our team meeting next week | 22:35 |
| gabrielhurley | amotoki: how about this: open a bug for a "final" translation update and target it to RC1. we'll make sure it's the last one to get closed | 22:36 |
| gabrielhurley | that way there's no way we'll cut the release without doing it and the translators have the most possible time | 22:36 |
| amotoki | sounds nice to make sure to track them. | 22:36 |
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| amotoki | daisy prefer to including ~100% translated languages in RC1 and removing old translations. | 22:37 |
| gabrielhurley | I will defer to the translation team on that decision | 22:37 |
| amotoki | does it make sense to you all? | 22:37 |
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| gabrielhurley | and if users complain, I will direct them to the translation team. ;-) | 22:37 |
| gabrielhurley | I've heard arguments on both sides | 22:37 |
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| gabrielhurley | I personally don't know which I think is worse: "my language just isn't available" or "my language is partially/badly translated and now I'm confused" | 22:38 |
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| amotoki | yeah, there are several discussion in i18n ml. | 22:38 |
| gabrielhurley | I'm sure. As far as I can tell it's an ongoing debate in open source translation in general | 22:39 |
| gabrielhurley | so somebody just makes a decision and we go with that until we're proven wrong | 22:39 |
| gabrielhurley | I'm good either way | 22:39 |
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| amotoki | me too. daisy and i have a bit different opinion already :-( | 22:40 |
| amotoki | anyway, i will keep on eyes to make sure to import them into each RC release. | 22:40 |
| gabrielhurley | amotoki: all you need to do is find more people that agree with you then. ;-) | 22:40 |
| gabrielhurley | sounds perfect | 22:40 |
| gabrielhurley | thank you | 22:40 |
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| lblanchard | lsmola: In response to your question…I hope to post a set of wireframes for review to the UX community by the end of the week. They will be focused on visualizing details around nodes, racks, and resource classes…but my hope is that a lot of the concepts could be reused on the Horizon Overview pages eventually. So everyone, please feel free to comment and help me improve them! | 22:40 |
| gabrielhurley | awesome! | 22:41 |
| lsmola_ | lblanchard, very cool, thank you | 22:41 |
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| lblanchard | lsmola: no problem! I enjoy it :) | 22:41 |
| lsmola_ | great :-) | 22:41 |
| lblanchard | I should also give a shoutout to julim who has been helping me improve them! | 22:41 |
| julim | thx lblanchard. happy to help! | 22:42 |
| lsmola_ | julim, thank you very much | 22:42 |
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| julim | hope the wireframes make sense to all when you all see them… lblanchard is doing a great job | 22:43 |
| lsmola_ | gabrielhurley, one last thing from me | 22:43 |
| gabrielhurley | I was wondering who julim was... :-) | 22:43 |
| gabrielhurley | go for it | 22:43 |
| lsmola_ | gabrielhurley, I have started the conversation about the Alarming in Horizon | 22:43 |
| gabrielhurley | yep | 22:43 |
| lsmola_ | gabrielhurley, would be glad if you could look on it | 22:43 |
| lsmola_ | jd__ already gave me very helpful feedback | 22:44 |
| gabrielhurley | will do | 22:44 |
| lsmola_ | And that's all from me, I am very glad that the Ceilometer integration is moving :-) | 22:44 |
| julim | julim = Ju Lim at Red Hat | 22:45 |
| lsmola_ | gabrielhurley, thank you very much | 22:45 |
| lblanchard | gabrielhurley: haha I should have introduced julim to the team :) She joined the UX team @ Red Hat a few weeks back and is focusing on use case / customer research work | 22:45 |
| julim | part of UXD team | 22:45 |
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| julim | sorry… have 2 young kids fighting for keyboard access… limited typing now | 22:45 |
| lsmola_ | hehe | 22:46 |
| lblanchard | lol | 22:46 |
| gabrielhurley | lsmola_: was there something particular about the alarms? The blueprint looks pretty straightforward. | 22:46 |
| lsmola_ | gabrielhurley, it's on mailing list | 22:46 |
| gabrielhurley | julim: welcome | 22:46 |
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| gabrielhurley | lsmola_: ah, I missed that one somehow. Lemme go find the message. | 22:46 |
| lsmola_ | gabrielhurley, cool, thank you | 22:46 |
| gabrielhurley | weird. my mail filter for horizon messages on the list missed that one. | 22:47 |
| gabrielhurley | I see it now | 22:47 |
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| lsmola_ | maybe ceilometer stole it :-) | 22:47 |
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| gabrielhurley | haha | 22:47 |
| gabrielhurley | dunno | 22:47 |
| gabrielhurley | I'll respond to it though | 22:47 |
| gabrielhurley | lblanchard: thanks for the intro | 22:48 |
| lsmola_ | that would be cool, thank you | 22:48 |
| gabrielhurley | julim: glad to have you | 22:48 |
| julim | glad to be part of the team. | 22:48 |
| gabrielhurley | okay. other topics? | 22:48 |
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| gabrielhurley | cool. well, good meeting folks. happy bug hunting and we'll check in again next week! | 22:50 |
| gabrielhurley | hpoefully we'll be cutting our Havana RC! | 22:50 |
| gabrielhurley | #endmeeting | 22:50 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 22:50 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Sep 24 22:50:55 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 22:50 |
| lsmola_ | thank you, good night | 22:50 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/horizon/2013/horizon.2013-09-24-22.02.html | 22:50 |
| david-lyle | thanks! | 22:51 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/horizon/2013/horizon.2013-09-24-22.02.txt | 22:51 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/horizon/2013/horizon.2013-09-24-22.02.log.html | 22:51 |
| lblanchard | thanks all, have a good rest of the week! | 22:51 |
| julim | thank you and have a good evening / day wherever you may be | 22:51 |
| amotoki | thanks all, good day/night! | 22:51 |
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