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| n0ano | #startmeeting scheduler | 14:59 |
|---|---|---|
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Jul 30 14:59:45 2013 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is n0ano. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 14:59 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 14:59 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: scheduler)" | 14:59 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'scheduler' | 14:59 |
| n0ano | show of hands, anyone here for the scheduler meeting? | 15:00 |
| jog0 | o/ | 15:00 |
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| n0ano | jog0, just you & me so far, this could be quick :-) | 15:02 |
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| jgallard | hi | 15:02 |
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| alaski | o/ | 15:03 |
| n0ano | well, while we're waiting for people... | 15:03 |
| n0ano | #topic administrivia | 15:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "administrivia (Meeting topic: scheduler)" | 15:04 | |
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| n0ano | I will be out the months of Sept & Oct (back in time for Hong Kong), anyone want to chair this meeting during those 2 months? | 15:04 |
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| jog0 | n0ano: I would offer but, the time of day doesn't always work for me | 15:05 |
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| alaski | kind of the same for me. I can take it sometimes, but I know I'll be out a few of those weeks. | 15:05 |
| glikson | hi | 15:06 |
| n0ano | we don't need an asnwer today, I just wanted to get it out and we'll find someone, I don't want the meeting to die on the vine. | 15:06 |
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| n0ano | moving on to more interesting stuff | 15:06 |
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| boris-42 | hi all | 15:06 |
| boris-42 | =) | 15:06 |
| n0ano | #topic multiple active scheduler policies/drivers | 15:06 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "multiple active scheduler policies/drivers (Meeting topic: scheduler)" | 15:06 | |
| jgallard | n0ano, to remember this point, can you "action" it? | 15:07 |
| n0ano | glikson, jog0 I believe you've been active on the list on this, can you summarize? | 15:07 |
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| glikson | I can try | 15:07 |
| n0ano | #action need new moderator for months of Sept & Oct | 15:07 |
| n0ano | jgallard, tnx, good point | 15:07 |
| jgallard | n0ano, thanks :) | 15:08 |
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| glikson | we have a blueprint and a patch submitted. there have been several concerns with the current design approach. | 15:08 |
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| glikson | seems that the main one was whether we need API-driven management of policies, or we can start with something more simple for Havana | 15:09 |
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| n0ano | especially given the short timeline remaining for Havana seems like starting simple with the option to make it more flexible in future would be the way to go | 15:10 |
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| n0ano | is the issue config files? | 15:10 |
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| jog0 | simple isn't always good either. we have to keep in mind that any 'simple' short term solution will have to have a migration path to the next thing etc | 15:11 |
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| glikson | yes (I think). whether defining policies in nova.conf is good enough for Havana (similarly to cinder multi-backed support) | 15:11 |
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| jog0 | IMHO, defining policies in nova.conf is not good enough for Havana | 15:11 |
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| glikson | jog0: agree, but I don't expect major issues with migration.. | 15:12 |
| n0ano | are they really going to be so dynamic that this is an unreasonable restriction? | 15:12 |
| glikson | I don't expect them to be dynamic in most cases | 15:12 |
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| jog0 | sure, they may not be dynamic but we don't want more config options in nova.conf | 15:13 |
| glikson | adding policies typically means adding new kinds of hardware, or changing overall cloud management policies.. | 15:13 |
| n0ano | jog0, give the config file has well defined sections, what's wrong with putting them there | 15:13 |
| jog0 | adding this to nova.conf means making nova.conf even more complex | 15:13 |
| jog0 | n0ano: its not about the right section or not. We want things to use the REST APIs when possible | 15:14 |
| jgallard | jog0, +1 | 15:14 |
| glikson | in fact, adding APIs and DB support adds a lot to the overall complexity.. | 15:14 |
| n0ano | jog0, yes, APIs are the ultimate goal but is using the config file that much of a problem for Havana | 15:14 |
| jog0 | well I think this is missing a big piece, cross project policies | 15:15 |
| jog0 | such as cinder and neutron related | 15:15 |
| glikson | jog0: fully agree, but it shouldn't prevent us from solving an important subset of the problem in Havana | 15:15 |
| jog0 | I disagree, I would like to see a plan for a better solution, and how this gets us on the right track | 15:16 |
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| n0ano | seems to me we all want the APIs but think that's too complex a change for Havana | 15:16 |
| jog0 | If there is a roadmap for how to get to the better solution, and this is an temporary solution then sure. Also what about russellb's idea of using flavors | 15:17 |
| glikson | jog0: do you think we can come up with such a plan without a discussion at the summit? | 15:17 |
| n0ano | maybe this is something that should be targeted for Icehouse and not Havana | 15:17 |
| jog0 | glikson: true | 15:17 |
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| glikson | jog0: I accepted his idea | 15:17 |
| jog0 | glikson: so using flavors sounds likea good first step | 15:17 |
| glikson | the patch under review uses flavor extra specs | 15:18 |
| jog0 | its doesn't change things in any major way | 15:18 |
| jog0 | and addresses most of your basic requirments as far as I can tell | 15:18 |
| glikson | the extra spec specifies the policy | 15:18 |
| glikson | jog0: in theory, we can specify all the scheduler parameters (driver, filters, etc) in the flavor -- but I think it would be an abuse.. | 15:19 |
| glikson | also much harder in terms of compatibility and migration going forward | 15:19 |
| jog0 | glikson: yeah | 15:19 |
| jgallard | glikson, yes, and complicated in term of flavors management and update too | 15:20 |
| jog0 | well I think there is a bigger issue at hand. Which is there are several competing scheduler blueprints and no overall plan | 15:20 |
| n0ano | jog0, that should be handled by a session at the next summit, trying to come up with a comprehensive plan | 15:21 |
| glikson | jog0: IMO, the proposed design is flexible enough to seamlessly move to different mechanism for persistency and lifecycle of policies, when we know what exactly we are trying to achieve. | 15:21 |
| jog0 | glikson: the issue is when there are a bunch of BPs pulling the scheduler in different directions we end up with a mess | 15:22 |
| n0ano | we kind of had that at the last summit but it just wound up being a quick review of multiple BPs, not an overall plan | 15:22 |
| glikson | jog0: in general, I agree that some sort of overall architecture and roadmap would be useful | 15:22 |
| jog0 | yes, its too late to work on agree before the summit. but its a good time to figure out the proposal for the summit | 15:22 |
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| shanewang1 | the duedate for feature proposal is Aug 23? | 15:23 |
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| jog0 | Some of the best summit sessions are the ones where there is a well thought out proposal that gets discussed | 15:23 |
| jog0 | shanewang1: no new BPs already | 15:23 |
| glikson | jog0: I will surely vote for having a discussion on this at the summit | 15:23 |
| jog0 | glikson: a discussion over a fully proposed plan | 15:23 |
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| n0ano | let's not get too side tracked, we're diverting from multiple schedulers into overall scheduler design | 15:23 |
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| jog0 | n0ano: sorry, I just think its hard to have this discussion without the overall one | 15:24 |
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| n0ano | both are good topics but let's finish the multiple scheduler discussion first | 15:24 |
| n0ano | jog0, we're not going to finalize the overall picture today so I think it's still useful to discuss the specific issues | 15:25 |
| n0ano | trust me, I'm adding a `overall scheduler plan' as a topic (most likely for next week when we have a chance to think about it). | 15:26 |
| jog0 | n0ano: no we aren't but we can start that discussion, perhaps schedule it off meeting | 15:26 |
| glikson | jog0: the question is whether this particular BP, which has been discussed at high level at the last summit and approved, should be the one to "suffer" from this. It doesn't introduce any revolutionary changes, and does not seem to be contradicting any other major design goal that we may potentially want to enforce.. | 15:26 |
| n0ano | jog0, +1 (we're in violent agreement) | 15:26 |
| jog0 | glikson: can you link to the patch | 15:26 |
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| glikson | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/37407/ | 15:27 |
| jog0 | glikson: I thought you said this used the flavors, not a list of policies | 15:28 |
| glikson | jog0: flavor specifies the policy | 15:29 |
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| n0ano | glikson, then where are the actual policies defined | 15:29 |
| glikson | the details of each policy is in nova.conf | 15:29 |
| n0ano | ahh, now I see the issue, that does seem to be a bit of an abuse of the nova.conf | 15:30 |
| jog0 | n0ano: yup | 15:30 |
| glikson | why? | 15:30 |
| glikson | specify the default driver/filters is ok, but adding couple of extra ones is not? | 15:31 |
| n0ano | you are now putting a potentially unbounded amount of info in the config file, not what it was defined for | 15:31 |
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| jog0 | n0ano: we want things like policies to be controlled via APIs when possible | 15:31 |
| jog0 | this makes things like RBAC and domains work nice | 15:32 |
| glikson | n0ano: in theory.. | 15:32 |
| jgallard | hummm, it's not the same thing for instance when you configure several cinder backend into cinder.conf ? (multiple sections into cinder.conf) | 15:32 |
| glikson | jgallard: indeed, it is | 15:32 |
| jgallard | in that case, its not an issue | 15:32 |
| jog0 | jgallard: isn't that saying this machine has these backends | 15:32 |
| jog0 | and this is different per machine, and is only local. | 15:33 |
| glikson | that's where we 'stolen' the idea | 15:33 |
| jog0 | while here we are saying I have these global policies and I am defining them in the nova.conf file | 15:33 |
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| jog0 | where an admin API user cannot touch them even if the cloud operator wanted that | 15:33 |
| n0ano | I'm with jog0 on this one (he's expressing my concerns better) | 15:33 |
| glikson | jog0: not really -- you can potentially control all of your storage pools via a single machine running cinder-volume | 15:33 |
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| glikson | in fact, having a lot of storage pools, with dynamics, is a much more reallistic scenario than having lots of scheduling policies.. | 15:34 |
| jog0 | glikson: sure, but that is an edge case of this? and adding new hardware is different than changing a policy | 15:34 |
| n0ano | note, just because cinder works this way doesn't mean we agree with that design, I'd say cinder is wrong in this case | 15:36 |
| glikson | jog0: can you have an example, what kind of scheduling policies do you have in mind when thinking about having lots of them? | 15:36 |
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| jog0 | glikson: who knows, but why can't I as a owner of a cloud say, you as a seperate domain and maybe a virtual private cloud inside of mine cannot set your own arbitrary scheduling policies | 15:37 |
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| glikson | jog0: you surely can, but it is not supported by the patch we've submitted. we support many other use-cases, which do not require this kind of programmability. we don't need to support all the possible policy-related use-cases in a single patch, right? | 15:38 |
| n0ano | glikson, as long as you have a way of ultimately supporting all the use cases starting simple is fine | 15:39 |
| glikson | I am not aware of any inherent problems with our implementation that would prevent anyone from extending it to support better progammability | 15:39 |
| jog0 | glikson: anyway, I think the next step here is: | 15:39 |
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| jog0 | clearly explain your current patch in great detail, and push to the ML thread and see what happens | 15:40 |
| glikson | on ther other hand, I am also not aware of any alternative implemetation that would solve the bigger problem in Havana time frame.. | 15:40 |
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| jog0 | glikson: this isn't always about the first implementation proposal wins, its about the 'right one,' however that is defined | 15:41 |
| glikson | jog0: you mean, use cases or implementation? | 15:41 |
| jog0 | glikson: implementation | 15:41 |
| jgallard | does this patch was not already discussed on the ML? | 15:42 |
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| jog0 | jgallard: the patch has had several revisions since then, not sure if that has changed anything major | 15:42 |
| glikson | there is no single "right one" in most cases. if this solves a real problem, and it seems to be flexible enough to extend to support additional use-cases -- this should be enough, IMO.. | 15:42 |
| jgallard | jog0, ok | 15:42 |
| glikson | jog0: we addressed some of Russell's suggestions. | 15:43 |
| hk_peter | it is a nova meeting or a ceilometer meeting? | 15:43 |
| n0ano | hk_peter, nova | 15:43 |
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| russellb | glikson: needs to be re-reviewed now? | 15:43 |
| hk_peter | @n0ano thx | 15:43 |
| glikson | hi russel. yes, would appreciate if you could take another look (and maybe remove your -2) | 15:43 |
| jog0 | glikson: well for one thing the commit msg needs work | 15:44 |
| russellb | ack, will look | 15:44 |
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| hk_peter | is there anybody can help to design the screen for nova's schduler setup? | 15:44 |
| glikson | russellb: you may also take a look at the discussion we just had here, in the last 1/2 hour.. | 15:44 |
| glikson | jog0: ok | 15:46 |
| n0ano | so, are we winding down on this subject (subject to mailing list activity coming up)? | 15:47 |
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| n0ano | taking silence as assent... | 15:48 |
| n0ano | #topic opens | 15:48 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "opens (Meeting topic: scheduler)" | 15:48 | |
| n0ano | I wanted to talk about instance groups (but gary doesn't seem to be here) and/or simple way to improve the scheduler but I don't think there's enough time | 15:48 |
| n0ano | we'll defer those to next week. | 15:48 |
| n0ano | anyone have anything new to bring up toda? | 15:49 |
| hk_peter | can i say something about my project pandora? i scare i am disturbing | 15:49 |
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| n0ano | hk_peter, is this scheduler related? | 15:49 |
| hk_peter | kind of | 15:49 |
| n0ano | go ahead | 15:49 |
| hk_peter | but i really want to say something about pandora background first | 15:49 |
| glikson | hk_peter, got a link? | 15:50 |
| n0ano | hk_peter, I was going to say, is this something you should start on the dev mailing list first? | 15:50 |
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| hk_peter | pandora is a admin console http://peter.kingofcoders.com , we are *NOT* forking horizon, we have the horizon API. We want to create a better GUI, so customer is easier to make the decision to purchase openstack | 15:50 |
| jog0 | hk_peter: is this opensource? | 15:51 |
| hk_peter | yes, completely open source, apache license | 15:51 |
| jog0 | why not push code up into horizon? | 15:52 |
| n0ano | hk_peter, sounds to me like you `are` trying to replace horizon, you'd better expect a certain amount of controversy | 15:52 |
| hk_peter | two days ago, hong kong openstack community chairman want to submit our news to openstack blog, but refused, we are very down. | 15:52 |
| n0ano | hk_peter, why not just enhance/change horizon | 15:52 |
| hk_peter | I just want to say, pandora rely on horizon, we are not forking it. | 15:52 |
| hk_peter | Pandora is java, hard to push code into horizon | 15:52 |
| hk_peter | Pandora is not web base, i think our team can do better in a standalone app. | 15:53 |
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| jgallard | what is the link with scheduling? | 15:53 |
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| n0ano | hk_peter, do you have a detailed design you can point us to (I'm not liking what I'm hearing so far I have to tell you) | 15:53 |
| hk_peter | Honestly, i still not sure how to submit code review to horizon team, we want to enhance the scheduler, give it a nice UI | 15:53 |
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| hk_peter | here you go http://peter.kingofcoders.com/?p=442 | 15:54 |
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| n0ano | hk_peter, we don't have time to discuss this more today, I strongly suggest you raise this on the dev mailing list | 15:55 |
| hk_peter | thanks n0ano | 15:55 |
| n0ano | anything else new anyone want to raise? | 15:55 |
| hk_peter | take you time | 15:55 |
| jog0 | hk_peter: the short of it is you can't adjust QOS scheduling today via any REST APIs | 15:56 |
| jog0 | well there are a few ways starting to show up, but we are discussing that here | 15:56 |
| hk_peter | if we give it a REST APIs, letting people/third party program to reprogram the scheduler, isn't it great? | 15:57 |
| jog0 | hk_peter: see above | 15:57 |
| n0ano | hk_peter, in a word, no, that's not necessarily a good idea | 15:57 |
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| n0ano | anyway, times up, so I'll thank everyone and we'll talk again next week. | 15:58 |
| n0ano | #endmeeting | 15:58 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 15:58 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Jul 30 15:58:27 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 15:58 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/scheduler/2013/scheduler.2013-07-30-14.59.html | 15:58 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/scheduler/2013/scheduler.2013-07-30-14.59.txt | 15:58 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/scheduler/2013/scheduler.2013-07-30-14.59.log.html | 15:58 |
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| jgallard | thanks all! | 15:58 |
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| hk_peter | thanks, forgive my bad english :) | 15:59 |
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| n0ano | hk_peter, no problem, your english is fine (I dealt with much worse :-) | 16:01 |
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| hk_peter | nova guys, when is the next meeting? where i can find the meeting schedule? | 16:02 |
| primeministerp | #startmeeting hyper-v | 16:02 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Jul 30 16:02:26 2013 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is primeministerp. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 16:02 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 16:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: hyper-v)" | 16:02 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'hyper_v' | 16:02 |
| primeministerp | hi guy | 16:02 |
| primeministerp | s | 16:02 |
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| primeministerp | zehicle_at_dell: hi rob | 16:03 |
| zehicle_at_dell | hi | 16:03 |
| pnavarro | hi primeministerp | 16:03 |
| alexpilotti | hi guys | 16:03 |
| primeministerp | hey pedro | 16:03 |
| pnavarro | hi everybody ! | 16:03 |
| luis_fdez | hi | 16:03 |
| primeministerp | hey luis | 16:04 |
| primeministerp | great | 16:04 |
| primeministerp | we have quorum | 16:04 |
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| primeministerp | let's begin | 16:04 |
| primeministerp | #topic | 16:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: hyper-v)" | 16:04 | |
| primeministerp | #topic new patches | 16:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "new patches (Meeting topic: hyper-v)" | 16:04 | |
| primeministerp | I know alex has been hard at work | 16:05 |
| primeministerp | bunch of patch have submitted for wmi v2 | 16:05 |
| primeministerp | and vhdx is on the way | 16:05 |
| primeministerp | alexpilotti: any additoinal comments, on that | 16:05 |
| alexpilotti | sure | 16:05 |
| schwicht | hi everyone! | 16:05 |
| alexpilotti | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/39195/ | 16:05 |
| primeministerp | schwicht: hello frank | 16:06 |
| alexpilotti | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/39194/ | 16:06 |
| alexpilotti | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/39164/ | 16:06 |
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| alexpilotti | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/38160/ | 16:06 |
| alexpilotti | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/38791/ | 16:06 |
| alexpilotti | plus we have a bug fix that got merged | 16:07 |
| alexpilotti | #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/nova/+bug/1203059 | 16:07 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1203059 in nova "Hyper-V versions before 2012 are not properly recognized" [Undecided,Fix committed] | 16:07 |
| primeministerp | alexpilotti: thank for the infomation | 16:07 |
| pnavarro | from my side, nothing new, I'd like to start coding this week | 16:07 |
| alexpilotti | I'm trying to back port it to Grizzly as well | 16:07 |
| alexpilotti | VHDX is on the way | 16:07 |
| zehicle_at_dell | what version(s) of HyperV are being targeted? | 16:08 |
| alexpilotti | we have to fix the tests and it's ready for review | 16:08 |
| primeministerp | zehicle_at_dell: 2012 up | 16:08 |
| zehicle_at_dell | kk, thanks for confirming | 16:08 |
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| schwicht | (I assume that is becaise of WMI v2?) | 16:08 |
| primeministerp | yes | 16:08 |
| alexpilotti | 2012 R2 does not have V1 | 16:09 |
| alexpilotti | also we needed V2 for VHDX and other stuff introduced in 2012 | 16:09 |
| schwicht | yep we need to look forward | 16:09 |
| primeministerp | *nod* | 16:09 |
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| primeministerp | ok | 16:10 |
| primeministerp | pnavarro: do you have any updates on the cinder works | 16:10 |
| pnavarro | no, I'd like to start this week | 16:10 |
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| primeministerp | pnavarro: ok | 16:10 |
| primeministerp | pnavarro: keep us posted on your progress | 16:10 |
| pnavarro | sure ! | 16:11 |
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| primeministerp | pnavarro: are you still interested in ephermal storage? | 16:11 |
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| primeministerp | pnavarro: will you have time to do work on the ephermal storage as well? | 16:12 |
| pnavarro | well, I shouldn't be very difficult.. | 16:13 |
| pnavarro | I'd like to try | 16:13 |
| primeministerp | pnavarro: ok, we want to get in for sept, let us know if you need help | 16:14 |
| pnavarro | perfect, thanks ! | 16:14 |
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| alexpilotti | pnavarro: tx! | 16:14 |
| alexpilotti | :-) | 16:14 |
| primeministerp | ok | 16:15 |
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| primeministerp | are we good on active development bits? | 16:15 |
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| primeministerp | #topic summit sessions | 16:15 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "summit sessions (Meeting topic: hyper-v)" | 16:15 | |
| primeministerp | the summit deadline was I belive friday | 16:16 |
| primeministerp | hopefully everyone got thier sessions in | 16:16 |
| primeministerp | who was planning on giving one | 16:16 |
| primeministerp | I know alexpilotti has submitted 2 sessions | 16:16 |
| primeministerp | and I also submitted 2 sessions | 16:17 |
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| alexpilotti | yep, one workshop on windows + cloudbase-init, all possible deployments | 16:17 |
| primeministerp | so first question to the group are any of the other hyper-v folks planning on attending the summit? | 16:17 |
| alexpilotti | and an entry level one, on CentOS + RDO + Hyper-V | 16:17 |
| alexpilotti | (see latest blog post) | 16:17 |
| zehicle_at_dell | we're talking about it - ours are still going through the corporate machine | 16:17 |
| primeministerp | ok good | 16:18 |
| primeministerp | I haven't booked anything yet | 16:18 |
| primeministerp | but need to | 16:18 |
| zehicle_at_dell | Dell will have a small team (5 engineers - if you count me) | 16:18 |
| primeministerp | I know others have | 16:18 |
| primeministerp | booked already | 16:18 |
| alexpilotti | zehicle_at_dell: let me know if you'd like us to join you on stage for a Crowbar / Hyper-V demo :-) | 16:18 |
| pnavarro | I'm planning to attend too | 16:18 |
| zehicle_at_dell | I believe SUSE too | 16:18 |
| primeministerp | pnavarro: execellent! | 16:18 |
| zehicle_at_dell | alexpilotti: thinking...... | 16:18 |
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| zehicle_at_dell | yes ;) | 16:19 |
| alexpilotti | yeiii :-) | 16:19 |
| primeministerp | so looks like there will be a good group | 16:19 |
| primeministerp | zehicle_at_dell: I like the idea of that | 16:19 |
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| primeministerp | luis_fdez: who's attending from the CERN camp? | 16:20 |
| zehicle_at_dell | wanted to talk about CB demos when we get to that topic | 16:20 |
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| luis_fdez | Jose and Belmiro are attending... and... I'm not sure if Jan or Tim | 16:20 |
| primeministerp | luis_fdez: gotcha | 16:20 |
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| primeministerp | any other discussion for the summit | 16:21 |
| zehicle_at_dell | question on the target distro: I'm assuming Havana. We're starting to work on Havana using pull-from-source in September | 16:21 |
| primeministerp | zehicle_at_dell: you can use grizzly | 16:21 |
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| zehicle_at_dell | good, that's what I'd like to be testing on right now | 16:22 |
| zehicle_at_dell | Havana will take some baking - could be interesting at the summit | 16:22 |
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| primeministerp | #topic puppet-openstack-hyper-v | 16:23 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "puppet-openstack-hyper-v (Meeting topic: hyper-v)" | 16:23 | |
| primeministerp | luis_fdez: so | 16:23 |
| primeministerp | luis_fdez: it's been a while since we've cought up | 16:23 |
| luis_fdez | yeps | 16:23 |
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| primeministerp | luis_fdez: is that pull ready to be merged? | 16:23 |
| primeministerp | luis_fdez: you said wait in your comments | 16:23 |
| luis_fdez | yes, I think so... more testing is neede but it should work | 16:23 |
| luis_fdez | yes, I updated today | 16:23 |
| primeministerp | luis_fdez: ok perfect | 16:24 |
| luis_fdez | I'll work the rest of the week on the refactoring | 16:24 |
| primeministerp | great | 16:24 |
| luis_fdez | next week I'll be out of the office | 16:24 |
| primeministerp | I'll be able to test it w/in the next couple days | 16:24 |
| luis_fdez | I'd to have the python environment polished and ready | 16:24 |
| primeministerp | luis_fdez: is the python part ready? | 16:24 |
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| luis_fdez | well, with this refactoring it should be ready | 16:25 |
| primeministerp | ok | 16:25 |
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| luis_fdez | it supports installing from exe, msi, pip... | 16:25 |
| primeministerp | luis_fdez: can you make sure there's a from source option | 16:25 |
| primeministerp | that's part is coming | 16:25 |
| primeministerp | i'm getting some help | 16:25 |
| primeministerp | ;) | 16:25 |
| zehicle_at_dell | can someone explan the python / puppet integration? | 16:25 |
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| primeministerp | zehicle_at_dell: so | 16:26 |
| primeministerp | to install openstack | 16:26 |
| primeministerp | on hyper-v you need python | 16:26 |
| primeministerp | currently | 16:26 |
| primeministerp | you have a bunch of options on how to get that | 16:26 |
| primeministerp | if we use the public binaries | 16:26 |
| primeministerp | from the python community | 16:26 |
| primeministerp | for the base msi | 16:26 |
| primeministerp | of python 2.7 | 16:26 |
| primeministerp | we need to then | 16:26 |
| zehicle_at_dell | ah, ok. I get it. it's about evironment prep. | 16:27 |
| primeministerp | yes | 16:27 |
| primeministerp | so | 16:27 |
| primeministerp | when I did my last refactor | 16:27 |
| primeministerp | I had it auto pull everything from the web | 16:27 |
| alexpilotti | zehicle_at_dell: it's very similar to how we do it in Crowbar | 16:27 |
| primeministerp | luis_fdez: is taking my brute force and cleaning it up to something more flexible | 16:27 |
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| luis_fdez | hehe | 16:27 |
| zehicle_at_dell | I'm familiar w/ the problem - it's a pain to solve | 16:27 |
| zehicle_at_dell | esp if you assume no route to the internet from the hosts admin network (which is what we assume) | 16:28 |
| schwicht | you can have local pip sources ... | 16:28 |
| luis_fdez | yeps we want to allow the user specify the sources or pull it from the web | 16:29 |
| zehicle_at_dell | yy, that's what we do. We have an approach for that (pull-from-source), but this is getting off topic | 16:29 |
| zehicle_at_dell | did not mean to derail us | 16:29 |
| zehicle_at_dell | gtr in 15 minutes | 16:30 |
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| primeministerp | exactly | 16:30 |
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| primeministerp | ok | 16:34 |
| primeministerp | any thing else on the puppet side | 16:34 |
| primeministerp | luis_fdez: ? | 16:34 |
| luis_fdez | ummm, no, that's all... | 16:34 |
| primeministerp | ok | 16:34 |
| primeministerp | anyone else to go on? | 16:34 |
| primeministerp | er | 16:35 |
| primeministerp | anything else add? | 16:35 |
| zehicle_at_dell | I'm here | 16:35 |
| primeministerp | zehicle_at_dell: what's up | 16:36 |
| primeministerp | zehicle_at_dell: anything else from your side? | 16:36 |
| zehicle_at_dell | wanted to talk about setting up a CB HyperV demo w/ the cloudbase team | 16:36 |
| primeministerp | zehicle_at_dell: let's talk | 16:36 |
| alexpilotti | zehicle_at_dell: sure | 16:36 |
| primeministerp | zehicle_at_dell: did you submit the session yet? ;) | 16:36 |
| zehicle_at_dell | was thinking to do it during the community CB design meeting next wed (8/7) | 16:37 |
| zehicle_at_dell | not yet, but soon | 16:37 |
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| zehicle_at_dell | I | 16:37 |
| alexpilotti | zehicle_at_dell: do you have some sponsors sessions that you can submit after the 31th? | 16:38 |
| zehicle_at_dell | I've got two people from our OS team ready to test the CB-HyperV work on some servers - waiting for all the pulls to pass | 16:38 |
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| zehicle_at_dell | yes, we have 1 | 16:38 |
| alexpilotti | zehicle_at_dell: ok, let me know how you want to handle it | 16:38 |
| zehicle_at_dell | I'll em you to set it up, the time is on the CB calendar (wed @ 10am central) | 16:39 |
| alexpilotti | cool | 16:39 |
| primeministerp | awesome | 16:40 |
| zehicle_at_dell | I'm excited to see the integration pulls accepted and start testing on physical gear | 16:40 |
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| zehicle_at_dell | Grizzly btw | 16:40 |
| primeministerp | ok | 16:41 |
| zehicle_at_dell | alexpilotti: I'll introduce you to the team | 16:41 |
| alexpilotti | great, tx! | 16:41 |
| zehicle_at_dell | since I'm expecting they will work directly w/ you | 16:41 |
| alexpilotti | sounds good | 16:41 |
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| zehicle_at_dell | that was my main topic - still recovering from OSCON | 16:42 |
| primeministerp | hehe | 16:42 |
| primeministerp | zehicle_at_dell: i pob should have put that on the list of confs | 16:42 |
| primeministerp | any other topics? | 16:42 |
| primeministerp | schwicht: ? | 16:42 |
| primeministerp | schwicht: anything to add? | 16:43 |
| schwicht | primeministerp: not for today | 16:43 |
| primeministerp | ok then | 16:43 |
| primeministerp | i'm calling it | 16:43 |
| primeministerp | #endmeeting | 16:43 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 16:43 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Jul 30 16:43:21 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 16:43 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/hyper_v/2013/hyper_v.2013-07-30-16.02.html | 16:43 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/hyper_v/2013/hyper_v.2013-07-30-16.02.txt | 16:43 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/hyper_v/2013/hyper_v.2013-07-30-16.02.log.html | 16:43 |
| alexpilotti | bye guys! | 16:43 |
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| primeministerp | thanks everyone | 16:44 |
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| ayoung | KEYSTONE! | 17:59 |
| lbragstad | hey | 17:59 |
| henrynash | HI | 18:00 |
| [1]fabio | Hi | 18:00 |
| gyee | \o | 18:00 |
| spzala | Hi | 18:00 |
| henrynash | #meeting keystone | 18:00 |
| ayoung | dolphm is out this week, so I'll start it. | 18:00 |
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| ayoung | henrynash, I think you want #startmeeting keystone | 18:00 |
| henrynash | ahh | 18:00 |
| ayoung | henrynash, you want to run this one? | 18:00 |
| henrynash | sure | 18:00 |
| henrynash | #startmeeting keystone | 18:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Jul 30 18:00:58 2013 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is henrynash. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 18:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 18:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'keystone' | 18:01 |
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| bknudson | hi | 18:01 |
| topol | Hi | 18:01 |
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| henrynash | ok, first off reminder that Havana m3 cut in Sept 4th | 18:01 |
| ayoung | all present and accounted for | 18:01 |
| henrynash | #info Havana m3 cut in Sept 4th | 18:01 |
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| henrynash | is anyone working on a bp that ISN't already tagged as heading for m3 ? | 18:02 |
| ayoung | hmm , I may be | 18:02 |
| henrynash | (i.e. they are expecting it to land for m3_ | 18:02 |
| bknudson | henrynash: yes... | 18:02 |
| ayoung | multi repos | 18:02 |
| bknudson | https://blueprints.launchpad.net/openstack/?searchtext=user-locale-api | 18:02 |
| ayoung | #link https://launchpad.net/keystone/+milestone/havana-3 | 18:02 |
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| bknudson | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/keystone/+spec/user-locale-api | 18:03 |
| ayoung | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/keystone/+spec/multiple-sql-migrate-repos | 18:03 |
| henrynash | #action all to make sure any bps they are planning for m3 are tagge as such | 18:03 |
| ayoung | henrynash, ^^ should be a prereq for any extensions going in that need sql schema updates\ | 18:04 |
| henrynash | that way, we'll have a good picture as we burn down | 18:04 |
| bknudson | henrynash: Is that something I do myself? | 18:04 |
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| henrynash | bknudson: as core, yes you can do that (Dolphm might change it…but you should set it) | 18:04 |
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| bknudson | henrynash: that was easy | 18:05 |
| henrynash | ayoung: re we targeting the sql migrate at Havana…thought i saw a discussion about it going to iceHouse? | 18:05 |
| henrynash | bknudson :-) | 18:05 |
| * topol sql migrate seems scary | 18:05 | |
| morganfainberg | ayoung / henrynash: I'm going to write up an updated BP based upon my conversations w/ dolph about caching layer instead of the revocation-list caching | 18:06 |
| morganfainberg | henrynash / ayoung: this should be tagged for h3 | 18:06 |
| bknudson | caching revocation list makes sense since it doesn't change that much | 18:06 |
| morganfainberg | bknudson: the revocation-list caching will be implementing the same way. | 18:07 |
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| henrynash | morganfainberg: Ok, but get it in their quick so you can get comment….as the clock ticks down we'll not want too many new Bps flowing in | 18:07 |
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| morganfainberg | henrynash: i'll write it up today. | 18:07 |
| henrynash | ayoung: back to migrate, so you are planning this for m3? | 18:07 |
| topol | morganfainberg, no API changes required for that? | 18:07 |
| henrynash | morganfainberg: thx | 18:07 |
| gyee | we should fix migrate in m3 | 18:08 |
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| morganfainberg | topol: no. it'll be just caching on top of current driver/manager calls | 18:08 |
| morganfainberg | topol: and config options to make it functional. | 18:08 |
| topol | morganfainberg. cool. I look fwd to reading the BP | 18:08 |
| morganfainberg | topol: nod. | 18:08 |
| gyee | morganfainberg, you caching it at the driver level? | 18:08 |
| ayoung | henrynash, yes | 18:08 |
| ayoung | henrynash, migrtate should go in ASAP | 18:09 |
| henrynash | gyee: fix, as in fix anything we have broken? | 18:09 |
| ayoung | henrynash, the Alembic migration should wait until icehouse | 18:09 |
| morganfainberg | gyee: there is a WIP that dolph put up as an example. it'll work a lot like that | 18:09 |
| gyee | henrynash, we need to get migration straighten out ASAP | 18:09 |
| ayoung | morganfainberg, you mean the one I did? | 18:09 |
| topol | besides the Alembic migration what are you referring too? | 18:09 |
| morganfainberg | ayoung: you did that and dolph posted it? | 18:09 |
| henrynash | gyee: are you referring to young's patch, or just tables we have mucked up | 18:09 |
| ayoung | topol, migrations for extensions in their own repos | 18:10 |
| gyee | henrynash, sorry, I mean migration for the extensions | 18:10 |
| ayoung | I'll post an example here in a second | 18:10 |
| henrynash | guee: Ok | 18:10 |
| morganfainberg | ayoung: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/38866/ | 18:10 |
| morganfainberg | using dogpile.cache | 18:10 |
| topol | ayoung, I remember you mentioning those. I thought they were tied to Alembic migration.. | 18:10 |
| gyee | dogpile? w00t! | 18:10 |
| morganfainberg | gyee: :) | 18:10 |
| henrynash | ok, so let's get the meeting back to an agenda! | 18:11 |
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| ayoung | henrynash, I am referring to https://review.openstack.org/#/c/36731/ | 18:11 |
| morganfainberg | yeah sorry. didn't mean to derail. | 18:11 |
| henrynash | we'll pick up discussion on the migrate items under high priority code reviews | 18:11 |
| ayoung | the comments say it needs documentation | 18:11 |
| morganfainberg | thought i was jumpin in ontime for h3 ... | 18:11 |
| bknudson | ayoung: I'd like docs too, but can go in a separate commit. | 18:11 |
| henrynash | #topic HIgh priority bugs or immediate issues? | 18:12 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "HIgh priority bugs or immediate issues? (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:12 | |
| henrynash | anything hot? | 18:12 |
| ayoung | No bugs marked as Critical | 18:12 |
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| bknudson | builds were broken by a dependency over the weekend but that's fixed. | 18:12 |
| ayoung | can we change that Agenda item to "Critical Priority bugs" in the future? | 18:13 |
| henrynash | ayoung: agreed…think we are Ok shape | 18:13 |
| * topol maybe we can all go on that hawaii vacation for m3 like I suggested before... | 18:13 | |
| henrynash | #action henrynash to change item to "Critical Priority bugs" | 18:13 |
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| henrynash | topol: there's a plan... | 18:13 |
| henrynash | #topic Reducing the default token duration in support of abandoning token revocation | 18:14 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Reducing the default token duration in support of abandoning token revocation (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:14 | |
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| bknudson | what do we need to cache token revocations for if we have this? | 18:14 |
| henrynash | who's item is this? | 18:14 |
| topol | dolphm, I believe | 18:14 |
| henrynash | topol: I had a feeling someone would say that | 18:15 |
| gyee | to 1 hour? | 18:15 |
| topol | He wanted to start stress testing the idea of tokens expiring to see what breaks | 18:15 |
| henrynash | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/38672/ | 18:15 |
| topol | I put a comment in that said, did you inform the other PTLs??? | 18:15 |
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| ayoung | henrynash, I want to do that, but it is not in H3 time frame | 18:16 |
| morganfainberg | bknudson: we still need to cache, people can ask for longer tokens. | 18:16 |
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| morganfainberg | and limiting the backend impact… is good. | 18:16 |
| henrynash | do we expect it to break (I know if we set it to minutes it definitely breaks) | 18:16 |
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| topol | morganfainberg, but when you change the default and folks find out by surprise.... | 18:17 |
| ayoung | any work flow that lasts longer than the token duration will break. | 18:17 |
| henrynash | ayoung: yep | 18:17 |
| morganfainberg | topol: right. don't surprise people ; | 18:17 |
| bknudson | assuming you can't get another token | 18:17 |
| ayoung | But a 1 hour token duration was too long to avoid the need for revocation, according to backlash from the community | 18:17 |
| topol | ayoung, I thought folks were supposed to code such that they reauthenticate if the token expires... Not true??? | 18:17 |
| ayoung | we need something like this | 18:17 |
| gyee | ayoung, that's where to pluggable token providers come in handy, you can customize expiration base on account :) | 18:17 |
| morganfainberg | topol: that was my understanding | 18:18 |
| gyee | just saying | 18:18 |
| ayoung | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/keystone/+spec/delegation-workplans | 18:18 |
| henrynash | Ok, sounds like need to circle back with dolphm on this one….to see how he plans to "experiment" with this. | 18:18 |
| topol | gyee, no. its a matter of correct expectations... Either we are allowed to assume folks can code properly to this or we need to back it out | 18:18 |
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| ayoung | that way, you can say "use this trust or oauth request token to get the token you need whne you need it" | 18:18 |
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| bknudson | clients need to be able to handle tokens becoming invalid for other reasons already | 18:19 |
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| brich1 | topol: if you code such that you can re-authenticate, you risk leaving the "secret" (password) out in the clear where bad things can happen... | 18:19 |
| gyee | topol, client behaves the same way, regardless of expiration policy | 18:19 |
| topol | if he other projects arent ready to handle this I need to change my vote... | 18:19 |
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| ayoung | brich1, that is why we have ecure delgation mechanisms now | 18:20 |
| gyee | if token expires, get a new one | 18:20 |
| ayoung | ecure -> secure | 18:20 |
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| topol | ugg... forcing folks to adopt something new by changing a default that nows screws them is not how we should do this.. | 18:20 |
| henrynash | #action dolphm to explain approach to rolling this out and discussion with other projects | 18:20 |
| ayoung | topol, they will just change it back in the puppet module anyway | 18:21 |
| * topol need to go change my vote | 18:21 | |
| henrynash | #topic High priority code reviews | 18:21 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "High priority code reviews (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:21 | |
| gyee | topol, if client code is so depended on the default expiration, something is fundamentally wrong | 18:21 |
| ayoung | Client reviews! | 18:21 |
| henrynash | ok, so what's in most need of pushing ahead | 18:21 |
| topol | ayoung, yeah after getting pissed off at us | 18:21 |
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| ayoung | As jamielennox's daytime voice, I need to push people to do more client reviews | 18:21 |
| ayoung | fear not the client | 18:22 |
| bknudson | those client reviews are always so scary because everybody seems to want to rewrite it. | 18:22 |
| ayoung | heh | 18:22 |
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| henrynash | ayoung: ok, so migration, | 18:22 |
| ayoung | I have a WIP to show | 18:22 |
| ayoung | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/39351/ | 18:22 |
| ayoung | this is based on simo' | 18:22 |
| ayoung | s kds patch | 18:23 |
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| topol | gyee, either we have a plan for success for our stakeholders for using shorter token expiration or we dont. sounds like we dont | 18:23 |
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| ayoung | topol, Icehouse | 18:23 |
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| topol | ayoung, K. then change default *in icehouse* | 18:23 |
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| gyee | topol, I am more worried on other issues, like performance | 18:24 |
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| ayoung | on migrations, the question is whether I should contineu on with the sql migrations as is, or wshould we do the alembic move before we split out the extension repos | 18:24 |
| ayoung | I think that Alembic support is going to require some thinking | 18:24 |
| henrynash | topol, gyee: have set action for dolphm to come back with the plan….let's move on | 18:24 |
| morganfainberg | ayoung: i am for doing the migration work now. | 18:24 |
| ayoung | and I don't really want to force that through | 18:24 |
| henrynash | ayoung: agred | 18:24 |
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| ayoung | morganfainberg, I do to | 18:24 |
| topol | ayoung, avoid death or glory. go crawl walk run | 18:24 |
| morganfainberg | and hit alembric in Icehouce | 18:24 |
| topol | morganfainberg +1 | 18:24 |
| ayoung | dolph had the objection, so if we drive on, we have to be ready to convince him when he comes back. Do we have unanimous support for it? | 18:25 |
| topol | support for doing it in stages??? | 18:25 |
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| bknudson | I think his problem was that we now have to do alembic on multiple repos | 18:25 |
| henrynash | ayoung: I'd just like clarification of how a "complex" extension work work with a separate repo? | 18:25 |
| ayoung | topol, for doign the migrations per extension in the existing technology | 18:25 |
| ayoung | henrynash, see the above link | 18:25 |
| topol | ayoung, yes that to me means stages. Unless thatmakes alembic 10 times harder later... | 18:26 |
| ayoung | henrynash, the short of it is you need a migrate_repo subdir, a versions subdir under that, a config file, and a couple empty __init__.puy files | 18:26 |
| gyee | ayoung, is alembic required for separating out the extension migration? | 18:26 |
| henrynash | ayoung: so I posted a question on patch 11 to this end | 18:26 |
| bknudson | if we have multiple repos and have alembic, we have to decide how we're going to do the sqlalchemy -> alembic change. | 18:26 |
| ayoung | henrynash, yep,. just got to the point that I had one to show, and I will convert that to documentation in both the commit message and in the doc dir | 18:26 |
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| ayoung | bknudson, we need to do that anyway, and I think the migration will be no more complex with or without the split | 18:27 |
| ayoung | gyee, alembic is not required | 18:27 |
| gyee | ayoung, I would vote for getting the extension migration done first | 18:28 |
| bknudson | ayoung: ok, I don't know how the sqlalchemy -> alembic migration works. Other projects always have a point where they consolidate migrations | 18:28 |
| henrynash | ayoung: my question is much more fundamental…my initial reaction is that complex extensions will no long rbe possible since we won't have the DB changes sequenced with core…any sometimes I think you need to….so I am yet to be convinced over the whole approach | 18:28 |
| ayoung | gyee, doing alembic support after the split means that we will have to deal with multiple migrate repos in the conversion, but that should be only slightly more complex than what we are doing now | 18:28 |
| bknudson | but keystone hasn't done that (consolidation) | 18:28 |
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| ayoung | henrynash, if an extension needs to talk to the db, and change the core schema, it can still do that in common | 18:28 |
| ayoung | we just should not allow that in a review with out serious justification | 18:28 |
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| henrynash | ayoung: I'd suggest we need a better BP that explains what will and won't be possible…like before we start coding it | 18:28 |
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| ayoung | henrynash, extension , by definition, are defined to be split out from the main keystone server. I don't want any more extesnions going in until we resolve this | 18:30 |
| morganfainberg | ayoung: +1 | 18:30 |
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| ayoung | henrynash, credentials should have had its own repo, hell, Identity and token stuff should be in their own repos | 18:30 |
| ayoung | catalog and policy should certainly be in their own repos, too | 18:30 |
| gyee | ayoung, amen brother | 18:30 |
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| ayoung | So, henrynash do you really think an extension should be allowed to communicate with the underlying sql schema? | 18:31 |
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| henrynash | ayoung: so i get those suggestions….I thought the primary point of an extension was to allow API changes that we are not necessarily committing to support long ter, | 18:32 |
| gyee | ayoung, you sure you didn't work on OSGi before? | 18:32 |
| gyee | henrynash, having sql-specific schema dependencies is pretty messy | 18:33 |
| gyee | especially we are supporting different backend drivers | 18:33 |
| ayoung | gyee, I've worked on everything before | 18:33 |
| henrynash | ayoung: I (think what I ) am advocating is that often an extension might need to change a core schema. The schema change might be done in core (and not part of the extension) as long as it is benign….but "private" sql extension changes would be in their own repo | 18:33 |
| morganfainberg | gyee: yes, it makes sense especially with the pluggable nature/mutiple backends. | 18:34 |
| ayoung | henrynash, I would argue that if you are modifying a set of tables, all the changes to those should be in a single repo. Extensions *can* and *should* have their own sql repos, but because some extensions are already munged into the common repo, we can't make that a *must* at least not yet | 18:34 |
| henrynash | ayoung: otherwise I don't see how our dependencies will work, we'll break extensions at the drop of a hat | 18:34 |
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| ayoung | henrynash, so, the rule is "no new extension that requires a new sql schema goes into the common repo" | 18:35 |
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| bknudson | henrynash: we should have unit tests to ensure extensions work | 18:35 |
| gyee | bknudson, at the minimal | 18:35 |
| ayoung | bknudson, and those will be part of the sql upgrade test with that extensions patch | 18:35 |
| bknudson | and we need a real sql in the gate | 18:36 |
| henrynash | ayoung: so I'm not arguing that should not be able to have a repo….I'm just skeptical it is the right solution for all extension (in the future) to be wholly contained within their repo | 18:36 |
| morganfainberg | yes, real SQL in gate (or something that emulates it cleanly) is important. | 18:36 |
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| ayoung | henrynash, it is a code standard, but one that we can address when the time comes. For example, the ec2 extensions are currently based on code in the common repo. THat won't be broken by this | 18:37 |
| topol | do we expect to have enough extensions in the future to merit supporting multiple repos? | 18:37 |
| ayoung | henrynash, it just provides a missing mechanism | 18:37 |
| ayoung | topol, yes | 18:37 |
| ayoung | topol, 3 have 3 right now | 18:37 |
| ayoung | kds | 18:37 |
| ayoung | mapping | 18:37 |
| ayoung | oauth | 18:38 |
| topol | everybody loves adding to our database... | 18:38 |
| gyee | ayoung, don't forget endpoint filtering | 18:38 |
| henrynash | ayoung: and that's my point, I don't see where we have planned out how different types of extensions will work….I really want to see it described how the dependencies will work, be obvious to those working on core etc. | 18:38 |
| bknudson | so today an extension can't really count on the identity sql, since identity could be ldap. | 18:38 |
| ayoung | gyee, make that four | 18:38 |
| ayoung | bknudson, right | 18:38 |
| gyee | pho for pho! | 18:38 |
| henrynash | ayoung: you probably have it all worked out….I just need to be able read it and think through how it would work in practice | 18:39 |
| ayoung | henrynash, fair enough. | 18:39 |
| ayoung | #action ayoung to properly document split repos as part of the patch | 18:39 |
| henrynash | ayoung: if you could do that, it would be great | 18:39 |
| henrynash | thx | 18:39 |
| henrynash | Ok, other high priority code reviews | 18:39 |
| bknudson | one thing we might need is a more extensible way to notify extensions of events. | 18:40 |
| bknudson | more comprehensive might be a better word | 18:40 |
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| gyee | bknudson, can you translate that in plain english? | 18:40 |
| henrynash | bknudson: do we ahem any way implemented today? I didn't think so? | 18:40 |
| ayoung | bknudson, that statement scares me | 18:41 |
| bknudson | more of a thought, but you use foreign keys for example to delete rows from a table when the user goes away. | 18:41 |
| * topol plz be thinkijng of something lightweight :-) | 18:41 | |
| bknudson | and now we don't have foreign keys for that. | 18:41 |
| bknudson | so some way to tell an extension that the user has gone away and it should clean up. | 18:41 |
| ayoung | bknudson, LDAP does not notify anyway | 18:42 |
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| ayoung | users never "go away" | 18:42 |
| ayoung | now, projects, OTOH, | 18:42 |
| bknudson | users was an example... not sure if there's another one. | 18:42 |
| ayoung | roles get removed, and tokens get revoked | 18:42 |
| ayoung | integration happens at the component to component level | 18:42 |
| topol | does openstack have a common event listening mechanism? | 18:43 |
| bknudson | we've got a discussion of notifications later on the agenda already. | 18:43 |
| gyee | bknudson, you thinking of an internal message queue or something? | 18:43 |
| ayoung | wirth extensions, we should try to keep integration to a minimum. Ideally, different extensjhions should be able to run on different servers, and Keystone can then just act as a n incubatoer for new services with them all living in a single server | 18:43 |
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| bknudson | gyee: yes, it could be through an internal mechanism to register for events. | 18:44 |
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| henrynash | bknudson: Ok, think we need to table that topic, to make sure we get through the agent - maybe add it to next week? | 18:44 |
| topol | anyway we can avoid not invented here and rolling our own for this??? | 18:44 |
| henrynash | any other high priority reviews? | 18:44 |
| henrynash | probably a bit early in the cycle | 18:45 |
| ayoung | Implement apiclient library | 18:45 |
| henrynash | ayoung: ahh! | 18:45 |
| ayoung | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/28043/ | 18:45 |
| henrynash | ayoung: indeed | 18:45 |
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| ayoung | we need to solve the common authentication mechanism problem | 18:45 |
| bknudson | it's only 3000 lines | 18:45 |
| ayoung | heh | 18:45 |
| bknudson | seems like common authentication mech wouldn't take 3k loc | 18:46 |
| topol | with lots of -1s to boot | 18:46 |
| ayoung | agreed, so what do we do about moving this ahead? | 18:46 |
| ayoung | I think we need to work with him | 18:46 |
| ayoung | but scope down this into multiple, independent blueprints | 18:46 |
| ayoung | with auth being the highest priority | 18:46 |
| morganfainberg | ayoung: +1 | 18:46 |
| bknudson | ayoung: +1 | 18:46 |
| gyee | ayoung +1 | 18:46 |
| henrynash | ayoung: are any clients "signed up" to use such a think…or is it that if build (we hope) they shall come? | 18:47 |
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| topol | does ti have stakeholders lined up? Will folks jump to this once its avail or say, what I have works... leave me alone? | 18:47 |
| bknudson | so novaclient already has this plugin mechanism | 18:47 |
| ayoung | henrynash, I think cinder already pullins the keystone client | 18:47 |
| ayoung | I know at least one client does, | 18:47 |
| henrynash | ayoung:I think that is true, yes | 18:47 |
| ayoung | henrynash, it is in cinder's pip-requires but not in python-cinderclient | 18:48 |
| ayoung | glance has it , though | 18:49 |
| henrynash | ayoung: ahh. that might be just that it wants the middleware | 18:49 |
| ayoung | https://github.com/openstack/python-glanceclient/blob/master/requirements.txt#L6 | 18:49 |
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| bknudson | all the clients will need keystoneclient to get a token | 18:50 |
| ayoung | bknudson, they do direct calls right now | 18:50 |
| topol | the safe thing to do would be to confirm what the stakeholders really need in this space, that they are willing to move to the new code base and to make sure the 3000 lines are trimmed down to deliver only what the stakeholders need. could waste a lot of time if not real agile dvelopment is used on this one | 18:50 |
| bknudson | ayoung: oh, so we've got some work ahead of us! | 18:51 |
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| ayoung | bknudson, so we want them to consume the python-keystoneclient in order to manage how the authenticate both when they get a token and when they pass that token to aremote service, assuming the remote services can handle SPNEGO or CLient certs. Down the road of course | 18:51 |
| henrynash | #action cores (at least) to take some the to work on this issue this week….. | 18:51 |
| ayoung | bknudson, yeah, I would say so, and it is going to take some joint engagement. Thus, the first challenge to the core devs is to get comfortable with the client code, and get a common vision of how it should look and work. | 18:52 |
| henrynash | we need to make progress or we still won't have a v3 nova client by Havana ship | 18:52 |
| henrynash | v3 auth | 18:52 |
| gyee | henrynash, who's working on this? | 18:52 |
| ayoung | We need to work with the other projects to up the minimum version, too | 18:52 |
| gyee | ayoung, what kind of help you need from on this front? | 18:53 |
| ayoung | we should be able to use the latest keystone client in all projects | 18:53 |
| topol | ayoung, +1 and if not to understand why not | 18:53 |
| ayoung | gyee, jamielennox has been working on it | 18:53 |
| henrynash | young, guee: so I raised this at the project meetinga few weeks ago (when deputising for Dolphm) and the reaction was…use the mailing list! | 18:53 |
| ayoung | henrynash, or submit patches | 18:53 |
| gyee | henrynash, yup | 18:54 |
| henrynash | ayoung: always better | 18:54 |
| gyee | just do it | 18:54 |
| henrynash | young, gyee: ..and I coming round to thinking that this is what we must do | 18:54 |
| gyee | henrynash, yes, we'll have to write the code | 18:54 |
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| henrynash | gyee, ayoung, bknudson: let's chat after the meeting on this one | 18:55 |
| bknudson | henrynash: ok | 18:55 |
| henrynash | #topic Oslo unified logging patch landing soon? (https://review.openstack.org/#/c/34834/) | 18:55 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Oslo unified logging patch landing soon? (https://review.openstack.org/#/c/34834/) (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:55 | |
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| lbragstad | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/34834/ | 18:55 |
| topol | gyee, plz find a stakeholder from each project that needs to adopt. My rule of thumb would be if you cant get a stakeholder its a recipe for a waste of time.. | 18:55 |
| ayoung | henrynash, I'll OK the approach once we are certain it doens't mess up apache | 18:56 |
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| lbragstad | hoping that this lands soon, and this change was purposed for keystone a while ago to implement a unified logging solution but concerns were raised about eventlet | 18:56 |
| gyee | topol, sure, make sense | 18:56 |
| lbragstad | just wanted to give everyone a heads up on this, and once it lands in Oslo I'll plan to implement the unified logging solution to keystone | 18:56 |
| bknudson | so do we want to wait for the oslo change before we get notifications or stick with where we were before? | 18:56 |
| ayoung | bknudson, does it require changes to the config file? | 18:57 |
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| henrynash | lbragstad: and the question of apache? | 18:57 |
| ayoung | If so, that breaks the feature freeze rule. Otherwise, I am OK with it going in to H3. | 18:57 |
| lbragstad | jsut about to test it in apache. | 18:57 |
| lbragstad | henrynash: ^ | 18:57 |
| bknudson | ayoung: do notifications require changes to the config file? I'm sure there's config options to tell it what notifier to use. | 18:57 |
| lbragstad | yes | 18:57 |
| ayoung | lbragstad, can you file that as an Agenda item for next week, then, to make sure we close it on out? | 18:58 |
| lbragstad | ayoung: bknudson^ | 18:58 |
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| ayoung | bknudson, optional changes are OK | 18:58 |
| lbragstad | #link http://docs.openstack.org/trunk/openstack-network/admin/content/ch_adv_notification_overview.html | 18:58 |
| ayoung | bknudson, required changes are not | 18:58 |
| henrynash | ayoung: I didn't think changes to config file where verboten…just that we can't break anything that is in there already | 18:58 |
| bknudson | right, it has to have a sensible default. | 18:58 |
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| ayoung | henrynash, think of it as an integration problem. API's are fixed to keep from breaking iother apps. Config files are fixed to keep from breaking the puppet modules and installers | 18:59 |
| bknudson | people are going to think we're on vaca in Hawaii if we don't make work by breaking other apps. | 18:59 |
| ayoung | 1 minute remaining | 18:59 |
| fabiog | henrynash, endpoint filter is ready for review | 18:59 |
| ayoung | fabiog, add me to the review, please | 19:00 |
| henrynash | ayoung: hmm, agree we can't change existing values…take offline | 19:00 |
| fabiog | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/33118/ | 19:00 |
| henrynash | #topoc open discussion ! | 19:00 |
| fabiog | ayoung, added | 19:00 |
| henrynash | but we are out of time! | 19:00 |
| topol | fabiog, dolph has a red x on it. why would we review??? | 19:00 |
| henrynash | #stopmeeting | 19:00 |
| henrynash | #endmeeting | 19:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 19:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Jul 30 19:00:54 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 19:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2013/keystone.2013-07-30-18.00.html | 19:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2013/keystone.2013-07-30-18.00.txt | 19:00 |
| fabiog | topol, he had it because he wanted the extension implemented | 19:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2013/keystone.2013-07-30-18.00.log.html | 19:01 |
| fabiog | and now it is compliant to that | 19:01 |
| *** brich1 has left #openstack-meeting | 19:01 | |
| topol | fabiog ok | 19:01 |
| jeblair | are infra people around? | 19:01 |
| fungi | heyhowdy! | 19:01 |
| anteaya | o/ | 19:01 |
| clarkb | hey there | 19:01 |
| pabelanger | o/ | 19:02 |
| zaro | o/ | 19:02 |
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| jeblair | #startmeeting infra | 19:02 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Jul 30 19:02:47 2013 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is jeblair. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 19:02 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 19:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:02 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'infra' | 19:02 |
| jeblair | "and is due to finish in 60 minutes" ! neato :) | 19:02 |
| mordred | o/ | 19:03 |
| fungi | too cool | 19:03 |
| jeblair | #topic asterisk server | 19:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "asterisk server (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:03 | |
| jeblair | most of the topics from last meeting were around the asterisk server anyway... | 19:03 |
| *** vipul is now known as vipul-away | 19:03 | |
| *** vipul-away is now known as vipul | 19:03 | |
| jeblair | including that i signed up for a DID, so it has a phone number now... | 19:03 |
| * mordred bows down to the new asterisk server overlord | 19:03 | |
| * fungi missed the last meeting | 19:03 | |
| *** slavayssiere has quit IRC | 19:04 | |
| * fungi forgot to see what got assigned to him in absentia | 19:04 | |
| jeblair | fungi: i don't think you did; at least based on irc logs | 19:04 |
| jeblair | it looks like there was no meeting last week | 19:04 |
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| clarkb | correct | 19:04 |
| jeblair | pabelanger, russellb: should we all dial in? | 19:04 |
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| jeblair | to see if we can stress test the conf server a bit? | 19:04 |
| russellb | jeblair: sure | 19:04 |
| pabelanger | should be able too | 19:05 |
| * fungi has a telegraph^H^H^H^H^Hphone handy | 19:05 | |
| pabelanger | sip:conference@openstack.org | 19:05 |
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| russellb | pabelanger: going to use g722? | 19:05 |
| clarkb | I will need a real number as android's clients are derpy and I am still without a proper headset | 19:05 |
| jeblair | there's that, and the phone number is 512-808-5750 | 19:05 |
| pabelanger | no, was going to use DID | 19:05 |
| russellb | i'll probably just use the DID as well ... | 19:05 |
| pabelanger | russellb: no client | 19:06 |
| russellb | i have a client, but i like my desk phone more, heh | 19:06 |
| fungi | conference id number? | 19:06 |
| jeblair | 6000 | 19:06 |
| pabelanger | in | 19:06 |
| pabelanger | asterisk CLI looks good | 19:06 |
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| russellb | 6 people on | 19:07 |
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| pabelanger | load is nothing | 19:07 |
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| anteaya | I can get on with skype and the phone number | 19:08 |
| pabelanger | *CLI | 19:09 |
| pabelanger | confbridge list | 19:09 |
| anteaya | using the sip client, Jitsi still fails for me | 19:09 |
| pabelanger | anteaya: likely a codec issue | 19:09 |
| anteaya | pabelanger: probably | 19:09 |
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| russellb | jeblair: *CLI> core show channels ... shows all channels as calls from the SIP provider | 19:09 |
| anteaya | no | 19:10 |
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| anteaya | yes a little choppy for me too | 19:10 |
| mordred | cell phone | 19:11 |
| anteaya | I am just listening, not transmitting | 19:11 |
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| anteaya | who was that? | 19:12 |
| pabelanger | nice | 19:13 |
| russellb | pbx*CLI> channel originate Local/6000@public application playback spam | 19:13 |
| jeblair | i have silence now... | 19:14 |
| clarkb | jeblair: we are still talking | 19:14 |
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| jeblair | neat! | 19:14 |
| fungi | silence huh? | 19:14 |
| fungi | we have more callspam | 19:15 |
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| pabelanger | CPU is spiking, so we'd need to see why | 19:15 |
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| russellb | she will say anything. | 19:15 |
| russellb | almost anything. | 19:15 |
| anteaya | ha ha ha | 19:15 |
| pabelanger | tt-monkeys FTW | 19:15 |
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| anteaya | just with the small group, the sound is about equivalent to one of the board meeting conference calls, as a listener | 19:18 |
| anteaya | fungi has good sound | 19:18 |
| * ttx lurks | 19:18 | |
| * mordred waves at ttx | 19:18 | |
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| mordred | ttx: you want to dial in from france? | 19:18 |
| *** vipul is now known as vipul-away | 19:18 | |
| * mordred got dropped | 19:18 | |
| ttx | mordred: i'll pass, unless you REALLY need that tested | 19:19 |
| anteaya | skype is charging me money to listen in | 19:19 |
| * ttx multitasks | 19:19 | |
| anteaya | so far I have paid 40 cents | 19:19 |
| jeblair | ttx: not yet; i think we'd get a local number later | 19:19 |
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| jeblair | #action clarkb add pbx to cacti | 19:21 |
| davidlenwell | what is the conf number ? | 19:21 |
| anteaya | that actually was quite good | 19:21 |
| jeblair | we all just hung up | 19:21 |
| davidlenwell | oh .. too late | 19:21 |
| anteaya | we just ended the session | 19:21 |
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| jd__ | what? are we having a party on the phone or something? | 19:21 |
| russellb | https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Infrastructure/Conferencing | 19:21 |
| * jd__ hides | 19:22 | |
| davidlenwell | jd__: we missed it | 19:22 |
| fungi | we can try to bum-rush it again next week once we have it in cacti to see what the impact is | 19:22 |
| russellb | i documented it! | 19:22 |
| pabelanger | you could totally hook the meeting room bot into asterisk too, once the meeting start, a new conference room is create and password outputted | 19:22 |
| pabelanger | don't think that would be too hard | 19:22 |
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| jeblair | neat :) | 19:22 |
| russellb | pabelanger: it's only software | 19:22 |
| ttx | russellb: "on his spare time, the hero of cloud computing sets up asterisk" | 19:22 |
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| russellb | ttx: heh | 19:23 |
| fungi | ttx: like you're one to talk, writing your own bug tracker | 19:23 |
| ttx | russellb: not jealous at all. | 19:23 |
| pabelanger | russellb: would be a fun integration | 19:23 |
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| jeblair | so i think next we want to get a handle on resource usage there... fwiw asterisk is currently almost idle now that we've hung up. | 19:24 |
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| jeblair | so i'm guessing the high cpu usage is related to our call | 19:24 |
| clarkb | I think fail2ban is probably a reasonable thing to try as well | 19:24 |
| clarkb | it will act as a rate limiter for badness | 19:24 |
| anteaya | or spammers just target us when there is something going on | 19:24 |
| jeblair | shall we move on? | 19:25 |
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| russellb | there was no spam while we were on the call fwiw | 19:25 |
| russellb | so it was just conference related | 19:25 |
| pabelanger | jeblair: yes. Transcoding was the hit | 19:25 |
| pabelanger | but I wouldn't expect it to be spiking | 19:26 |
| russellb | pabelanger: dangit, should have looked to see what codecs were being used ... | 19:26 |
| pabelanger | ya, I was trying to see that | 19:26 |
| pabelanger | I think I seen some gsm with ulaw | 19:26 |
| russellb | they were all from the provider, so i can just call back and check | 19:26 |
| russellb | ulaw (which is good) | 19:27 |
| russellb | k, can move on | 19:27 |
| jeblair | ok | 19:27 |
| pabelanger | might just be confbridge | 19:27 |
| fungi | too attractive to spend the whole hour on a phone system ;) | 19:27 |
| jeblair | #topic multiple jenkins masters | 19:27 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "multiple jenkins masters (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:27 | |
| jeblair | the multi-step process to get to the point where we can have multiple masters is almost complete... | 19:28 |
| jeblair | we just need to do something to ensure that the bitrot jobs only run one place (and also that their logs are correctly processed) | 19:28 |
| zaro | do we also need this? https://bugs.launchpad.net/openstack-ci/+bug/1082803 | 19:29 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1082803 in openstack-ci "Manage jenkins global config and plugin list" [Medium,Triaged] | 19:29 |
| jeblair | to that end, I think i can have a working timer trigger for zuul today, which means zuul/gearman can dispatch those jobs, and we can stop using the jenkins timer triggers for them | 19:29 |
| clarkb | jeblair: reviewing your multiple triggers zuul change is on my list of things to do once we are done with bugs | 19:29 |
| jeblair | zaro: that would be nice, but i think i will defer it for now... | 19:29 |
| jeblair | because i'd like to have multiple masters within a few days (or weeks at the most) | 19:29 |
| clarkb | jeblair: I agree. There is a pressing need for multiple masters which we can manage by hand until we have the automagic to do it with tools | 19:30 |
| fungi | especially since multiple will initially be just two | 19:30 |
| fungi | not counting the old one | 19:30 |
| jeblair | i believe we're hitting performance problems related to the rate at which we are adding/removing slaves from jenkins for the devstack tests | 19:30 |
| jeblair | so being able to scale that up is the motivating factor for this | 19:30 |
| clarkb | jeblair: yes, the slave launch logs indicate it is taking up to a minute to add each slave | 19:31 |
| fungi | that certainly sounds like the sort of unusual use case the jenkins devs wouldn't have optimized for | 19:31 |
| clarkb | which is really really slow | 19:31 |
| jeblair | after we have multiple masters, i plan on looking at more efficient and reliable ways of managing slaves. | 19:31 |
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| zaro | that is awsome. i am talking about the gearman-plugin at this year's jenkins conf. will having something good to show! | 19:31 |
| jeblair | zaro: cool! | 19:32 |
| jeblair | when is that? | 19:32 |
| zaro | oct 23-24 | 19:32 |
| zaro | want to come down? | 19:32 |
| mordred | jeblair: on the efficient and reliable ways of managing slaves - I'd love to chat about that once you're there | 19:32 |
| zaro | it's in palo alto. | 19:33 |
| jeblair | mordred: my thoughts so far are that d-g should be a daemon instead of a bunch of jenkins jobs, and that gearman-plugin should (optionally) handle offlining slaves when jobs are done (since it's in a good place to do that) | 19:33 |
| mordred | ah yes. that. totally with you | 19:33 |
| jeblair | mordred: the daemon will be able to manage the nova boots in a better way. we may still have bottlenecks adding and removing slaves... | 19:34 |
| jeblair | howevever, we'll have a better handle on that in that we'll be able to tune how many api calls happen in parallel, etc... | 19:34 |
| mordred | agree | 19:34 |
| jeblair | also, we won't be making all these api calls at the same time jenkins itself is managing 16 running jobs (which are making the api calls) | 19:35 |
| mordred | _after_ that, clarkb and I were supposing about kexec re-purposing of slaves, so that there would be less adds/removes | 19:35 |
| clarkb | using a daemon will definitely make a lot of pain points less insane | 19:35 |
| mordred | but I agree that tuning what we have first | 19:35 |
| mordred | will let us grok the other things sanely | 19:35 |
| jeblair | ah yeah, that could be cool. the only thing about that is that i don't think we can count on always doing that | 19:35 |
| jeblair | some jobs will completely break the node and it will need to be destroyed and replaced | 19:36 |
| jeblair | but 90% of them may be able to be reused, which could be a huge win | 19:36 |
| clarkb | jeblair: yup | 19:36 |
| clarkb | jeblair: and a daemon should be smart enough to know when it can and cant make use of kexec | 19:36 |
| jeblair | that could be the normal case, and then if we fail to kexec after a minute or two, we kill it and let, say, a hypothetical future low-watermark load based system decide that it needs to replinish the pool. | 19:37 |
| mordred | jeblair: yup. and a hung-kexec probably will not respond to health pings :) | 19:37 |
| jeblair | (and hopefully, we can apply a bunch of this to the regular nodes too) | 19:37 |
| clarkb | that would be amazing | 19:38 |
| fungi | sounds great | 19:38 |
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| jeblair | cool, sounds like we have general consensus on a very long road ahead :) | 19:39 |
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| jeblair | #topic requirements and mirrors | 19:39 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "requirements and mirrors (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:39 | |
| jeblair | mordred: you want to talk about about what's going on in this area? | 19:39 |
| mordred | ugh | 19:39 |
| mordred | not really | 19:39 |
| mordred | can I just close my eyes and make it go away? | 19:39 |
| jeblair | maybe? | 19:39 |
| mordred | so ... there are several issues | 19:39 |
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| jeblair | (it's worth a shot) | 19:40 |
| mordred | one is that pip installs things not in a dependency graph order | 19:40 |
| mordred | but in a strange combo of first takes precedence and sometimes highest takes precedence | 19:40 |
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| mordred | which makes things gigantically problematic for devstack when things change, because sequencing will cause not what you expected to be installed | 19:41 |
| mordred | SO | 19:41 |
| clarkb | I did open a bug against this problem with upstream pip dstufft thought it may be fixed in 1.5 | 19:41 |
| mordred | current things on tap to fix this | 19:41 |
| clarkb | but that doesn't help us today | 19:41 |
| mordred | sdague and I are working on getting the requirements update.py script in good shape | 19:41 |
| mordred | with the idea that in setup_develop in devstack | 19:41 |
| mordred | the first step will be to run the update.py script from requirements on the repo to be setup_develop'd | 19:42 |
| sdague | yes, we're close, except for the fact that update.py doesn't handle oslo tarball urls | 19:42 |
| mordred | this will ensure a consistent worldview of which packages should be installed | 19:42 |
| sdague | I think that's actually the only missing piece | 19:42 |
| clarkb | #link https://github.com/pypa/pip/issues/988 there is apparently some undocumented feature that may be useful in mitigating this | 19:42 |
| mordred | sdague: grab most recent trunk - I think that's fixed now | 19:42 |
| sdague | mordred: really? | 19:42 |
| sdague | if so I can kick my devstack job again | 19:42 |
| jeblair | mordred: setup_develop sounds like a good idea | 19:43 |
| mordred | then - once that's happening, we should be able to gate requirements on devstack running with requirements | 19:43 |
| mordred | so we can know if a new req will bork devstack | 19:43 |
| jeblair | awesome | 19:43 |
| mordred | and then, with the two of those in place, we sohuld be in good shape to auto-propose patches to projects on requirements changes landing | 19:43 |
| mordred | incidentally, I also just wrote a patch to update.py to make it sync the setup.py file | 19:43 |
| mordred | so those really will be managed boilerplate | 19:43 |
| clarkb | mordred: maybe you can get dstufft to give us a tl;dr on the undocumented feature referred to in the pip bug | 19:44 |
| clarkb | and see if that actually does help us | 19:44 |
| mordred | k. | 19:44 |
| mordred | I'll ask him | 19:44 |
| sdague | also, I've got unit testing for update.py inbound, as soon as mordred does a pbr fix | 19:44 |
| mordred | yup. we have a pbr bug to bug folks about to help this | 19:44 |
| sdague | because tox in requirements/ is fun :) | 19:44 |
| mordred | then I'm also going to get per-branch mirrors up | 19:44 |
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| mordred | and finally- I think we should ditch installing from pip and figure out a way to auto-create debs and install from those - because we're spending WAY too much time on this | 19:45 |
| sdague | I think that just moves the pain elsewhere | 19:46 |
| mordred | but I am not working on that | 19:46 |
| jeblair | mordred: won't that put us in the "can't use python-foo version X because it's not packaged yet" boat again? | 19:46 |
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| clarkb | jeblair: yes, that was my worry when we were discussingthis the other day | 19:46 |
| mordred | possibly to both of you ... but we are spending a LOT of effort on this | 19:46 |
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| jeblair | mordred: which i'm okay with, if we think we're in a better place to deal with that new (less churn, more packagers, cloud archive, etc) | 19:46 |
| mordred | and turning up every corner case in python | 19:46 |
| jeblair | s/new/now/ | 19:46 |
| mordred | I don't think it's the right thing to work on right now | 19:47 |
| mordred | but I do think perhaps at the summit, we should discuss what it might look like in earnest | 19:47 |
| sdague | I think it's a summit session, honestly | 19:47 |
| mordred | jinx | 19:47 |
| jeblair | sounds good to me | 19:47 |
| clarkb | ++ | 19:47 |
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| mordred | I still agree that we do not want to be in the business of shipping debs or rpms | 19:47 |
| jeblair | mordred: (and i agree with you in principle) | 19:47 |
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| mordred | but like we've talked about for infra packages, operationally helpful packages might be helpful | 19:47 |
| jeblair | we're at a very different place than we were 2 years ago | 19:48 |
| mordred | very much so | 19:48 |
| mordred | https://review.openstack.org/39363 btw | 19:48 |
| jeblair | anything else on this topic? | 19:48 |
| mordred | for those who feel like looking at a pbr change related to helping the requirements work | 19:49 |
| jeblair | #top Gerrit 2.6 upgrade (zaro) | 19:49 |
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| jeblair | #topic Gerrit 2.6 upgrade (zaro) | 19:49 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Gerrit 2.6 upgrade (zaro) (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:49 | |
| jeblair | zaro: how's it going? | 19:49 |
| zaro | ohh. it's going.. | 19:49 |
| zaro | i think i have gerrit with WIP votes working now. | 19:49 |
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| clarkb | with one small asterisk right? | 19:50 |
| jeblair | is that with a patch? | 19:50 |
| zaro | nope! just figured out the bit of prolog.. | 19:50 |
| mordred | neat! | 19:50 |
| fungi | prolog! | 19:50 |
| clarkb | zaro: but it requires the patch for the change owner right? | 19:50 |
| zaro | yes, it's gerrit core. | 19:50 |
| mrodden | clarkb: thanks, didn't realize the check_uptodate.sh was just nova | 19:50 |
| jeblair | zaro: have you proposed it upstream yet? | 19:50 |
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| pleia2 | o/ | 19:51 |
| zaro | i just got it all to work. will submit a patch to upstream this week. | 19:51 |
| fungi | pleia2 found an internet | 19:51 |
| sdague | so couldn't we get WIP equiv by making APROV -1,0,+1 and letting an author -1 APROV his/her own patches? | 19:51 |
| jeblair | zaro: neat! :) | 19:51 |
| zaro | let's see what they say. | 19:51 |
| jeblair | sdague: that's actually the plan we discussed... | 19:51 |
| sdague | oh... ok :) | 19:51 |
| mordred | if they're amenable to the patch in general | 19:51 |
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| mordred | do we think we'd be willing to roll out a 2.6 with only that patch | 19:52 |
| jeblair | sdague: and i believe the "let an author..." bit is what zaro was patching to support | 19:52 |
| zaro | i have been in discussions with mfink? and i did it on his suggestion. | 19:52 |
| mordred | oh awesome | 19:52 |
| clarkb | jeblair: and/or adding a WIP category, but both changes need the patch zaro wrote to be expressible in the ACLs | 19:52 |
| jeblair | sdague: (existing gerrit acls don't support that operation) | 19:52 |
| sdague | ok, I had thought that permission was already in, | 19:52 |
| sdague | ok | 19:52 |
| zaro | ok. that's it for now. | 19:52 |
| mordred | I think, given a history of carrying a whole string of patches, carrying one patch for a cycle would not be as terrible | 19:53 |
| jeblair | zaro: i think mfink has a very strong voice in the gerrit community, so if he likes it, that's great. :) | 19:53 |
| zaro | good to hear. | 19:53 |
| jeblair | mordred: let's give this "develop upstream" thing a shot, eh? :) | 19:53 |
| *** vipul-away is now known as vipul | 19:53 | |
| mordred | jeblair: sure! | 19:53 |
| * mordred just wasn't sure what the 2.7 schedule was looking like | 19:54 | |
| jeblair | zaro: i'm very excited, thanks! | 19:54 |
| clarkb | me too | 19:54 |
| jeblair | #topic cgit server status (pleia2) | 19:54 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "cgit server status (pleia2) (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:54 | |
| jeblair | pleia2: welcome! | 19:54 |
| pleia2 | so, the one thing I wanted to talk about is addressing for grabbing git repos | 19:54 |
| * mordred welcomes our new git.o.o overlords | 19:54 | |
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| pleia2 | the plan right now is to do what fedora does (it's easy) and do git://git.o.o/heading/project and http://git.o.o/cgit/heading/project | 19:55 |
| pleia2 | so they aren't the same :( | 19:55 |
| pleia2 | git.kernel.org makes it so they are both git.kernel.org/prod/ | 19:55 |
| mordred | I think jeblair has convinced me that I can get over my issues with the cgit in the url | 19:55 |
| pleia2 | err /pub | 19:55 |
| clarkb | pleia2: I think we can lie and put them all under /cgit | 19:55 |
| clarkb | even though cgit doesn't do git protocll | 19:55 |
| pleia2 | clarkb: yeah, that's really easy | 19:55 |
| jeblair | pleia2: i'm okay with that because you have indicated cgit really wants to be set up like that, fedora and kernel work that way... | 19:56 |
| jeblair | er | 19:56 |
| mordred | I do not want to add cgit to the git:// url | 19:56 |
| fungi | does kernel.org use rewrites or something? (if first node in the path matches an org, rewrite the url) | 19:56 |
| jeblair | you want to put the git-protocol repos under 'cgit/'? that doesn't sound good to me | 19:56 |
| mordred | if we lie about anything, I want the cgit to go away from the urls in places | 19:56 |
| pleia2 | fungi: probably, I clicked down into a project to see what urls they provide visually and: | 19:56 |
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| pleia2 | git://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/bluetooth/bluez.git | 19:56 |
| pleia2 | http://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/bluetooth/bluez.git | 19:56 |
| pleia2 | https://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/bluetooth/bluez.git | 19:56 |
| mordred | but I'm fine with having the web and the clone be different | 19:56 |
| pleia2 | ^^ ie | 19:56 |
| uvirtbot | pleia2: Error: "^" is not a valid command. | 19:56 |
| jeblair | https://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/bluetooth/bluez.git is not cgit | 19:57 |
| jeblair | it's regular git | 19:57 |
| pleia2 | ah, interesting | 19:57 |
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| clarkb | so maybe that is what we do, put regular git http daemon behind /pub put git:// behind /pub then cgit can have /cgit? | 19:57 |
| mordred | right- I think git clone http:// and git clone git:// should have the same urls | 19:57 |
| jeblair | so i think it makes sense to serve cgit from /cgit | 19:57 |
| clarkb | mordred: I agree | 19:57 |
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| clarkb | and I agree with jebalir | 19:58 |
| fungi | worth noting, you don't have to clone from cgit, you can clone from http(s) published copies of the git trees | 19:58 |
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| fungi | er, that | 19:58 |
| mordred | and I don't think we need pub - I think that can go in root | 19:58 |
| jeblair | and let's serve http and git protocols without a prefix | 19:58 |
| mordred | git clone git://git.openstack.org/openstack/nova.git | 19:58 |
| clarkb | wfm | 19:58 |
| jeblair | mordred: +1 | 19:58 |
| jeblair | #topic Py3k testing open for business (fungi, zul, dprince, jd__, jog0) | 19:58 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Py3k testing open for business (fungi, zul, dprince, jd__, jog0) (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:58 | |
| jeblair | fungi: 1 minute! | 19:58 |
| fungi | just a quick update | 19:58 |
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| fungi | we're basically ready | 19:58 |
| mordred | w00t | 19:59 |
| fungi | couple of reviews which need last-minute attention... | 19:59 |
| jeblair | yaay! | 19:59 |
| jeblair | oh | 19:59 |
| fungi | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:open+project:openstack-infra/config+branch:master+topic:py3k,n,z | 19:59 |
| jeblair | oops | 19:59 |
| jeblair | (plug for my new gate test which will catch missing jobs!) | 19:59 |
| fungi | but that's all the updates i have time for in here. we can pickit up i #-infra | 19:59 |
| jd__ | what's missing? | 20:00 |
| jeblair | so close! | 20:00 |
| fungi | jd__: see link | 20:00 |
| fungi | jd__: we missed that when reviewnig your change earlier | 20:00 |
| * ttx whistles innocently | 20:00 | |
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| jd__ | too bad | 20:00 |
| jeblair | thanks everyone! | 20:00 |
| markmc | hey | 20:00 |
| russellb | hi | 20:00 |
| jeblair | #endmeeting | 20:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 20:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Jul 30 20:00:54 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 20:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2013/infra.2013-07-30-19.02.html | 20:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2013/infra.2013-07-30-19.02.txt | 20:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2013/infra.2013-07-30-19.02.log.html | 20:01 |
| ttx | Who is around for the TC meeting ? | 20:01 |
| russellb | o/ | 20:01 |
| jd__ | o/ | 20:01 |
| ttx | shardy, galstrom, annegentle, mikal, mordred, markwash, jgriffith, gabrielhurley, markmcclain: around ? | 20:01 |
| ttx | notmyname won't be around, vishy might be late | 20:01 |
| mikal | Hi | 20:01 |
| galstrom | ttx: yo | 20:01 |
| shardy | o/ | 20:01 |
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| ttx | FYI Justin Shepherd (galstrom) is proxying for dolphm | 20:01 |
| dtroyer | o/ | 20:01 |
| markwash | I'm here on behalf of vishy and myself | 20:01 |
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| ttx | ok, we have quorum now | 20:02 |
| gabrielhurley | \o | 20:02 |
| ttx | #startmeeting tc | 20:02 |
| markmcclain | o/ | 20:02 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Jul 30 20:02:24 2013 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is ttx. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 20:02 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 20:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:02 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'tc' | 20:02 |
| ttx | Agenda for today is at: | 20:02 |
| ttx | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Governance/TechnicalCommittee | 20:02 |
| ttx | do we have Rob Hisrschfeld around ? | 20:02 |
| ttx | -s | 20:03 |
| ttx | ok, let's start with devstack then | 20:03 |
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| mordred | o/ | 20:03 |
| ttx | (Rob told me he would be present only the first 30min so we might switch to him if he appears | 20:03 |
| ttx | ) | 20:03 |
| ttx | #topic New program application: Devstack | 20:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "New program application: Devstack (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:03 | |
| ttx | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2013-July/011896.html | 20:04 |
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| ttx | (1) Scope, mission statement, how "essential" the effort is to OpenStack | 20:04 |
| ttx | So this is mostly an oversight when we set up the original list of already-accepted programs | 20:04 |
| ttx | Devstack was an official project in the old taxonomy, so there is no question of it being official/essential or not | 20:04 |
| ttx | The question was more in the scope, should it land in QA, Infra, or in its own program | 20:04 |
| ttx | Personally, since the core people caring about devstack are a separate set of the people caring for Infra or QA, it makes sense as a separate program | 20:04 |
| mordred | I agree | 20:04 |
| russellb | is it really a separate group? | 20:05 |
| markmc | I see it as a developer tool, would like the mission statement to say something about that | 20:05 |
| markmc | seems like a different group to me | 20:05 |
| russellb | it seems sdague and dtroyer are the main reviewers, and they are both in qa-core | 20:05 |
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| mordred | also, again, the fact that we use devstack for infra or qa is an implementation detail. it's not devstack's primary purpose in life | 20:05 |
| dtroyer | I am? | 20:05 |
| markmc | e.g. would dtroyer identify himself as infra or QA? | 20:05 |
| ttx | russellb: enough for QA and infra not wanting to sheperd it | 20:05 |
| russellb | dtroyer: grenade? | 20:05 |
| dtroyer | I didn't think I was in either team | 20:05 |
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| dtroyer | ah, right | 20:05 |
| markmc | well | 20:06 |
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| dtroyer | does wearing one hat affect the other? | 20:06 |
| ttx | russellb: in the end if neither program adopts it, that means it's a separate group | 20:06 |
| markmc | I think that answers the "would dean identify himself as QA?" question :) | 20:06 |
| ttx | even if it has people in common | 20:06 |
| jgriffith | o/ | 20:06 |
| russellb | ttx: yep, guess so | 20:06 |
| ttx | <markmc> I see it as a developer tool, would like the mission statement to say something about that | 20:06 |
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| mordred | I dont' think it's about dean's self-identification - I see it as that ^^ | 20:06 |
| mordred | that's not the mission of qa | 20:06 |
| mordred | and it's not the mission of infra | 20:06 |
| ttx | current mission statement is: | 20:06 |
| markmc | oh, it does say that | 20:06 |
| ttx | "To provide an installation of OpenStack from git repository master, or specific branches, suitable for development and operational testing. It also attempts to document the process and provide examples of command line usage." | 20:06 |
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| markmc | yeah, sorry | 20:07 |
| markmc | missed "suitable for development" | 20:07 |
| ttx | markmc: does that work for you ? | 20:07 |
| markmc | yep | 20:07 |
| ttx | More comments/questions on the Scope, mission statement part ? | 20:07 |
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| * mordred thinks dtroyer is great | 20:08 | |
| ttx | (2) Team/effort/community maturity | 20:08 |
| ttx | That effort is pretty mature by now. It's even almost in stable mode :) | 20:08 |
| markmc | definitely | 20:09 |
| ttx | dtroyer: is there more to do rather than maintain it ? Any short-term / mid-term objectives for the devstack "program" ? | 20:09 |
| ttx | At this point it's a bit of a catch-all project with a lot of pass-by contributors | 20:09 |
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| dtroyer | The bulk of the work right now is making it all fit together but there is a lot of room for improvement | 20:10 |
| dtroyer | mostly incremental though, no plans for radical changes | 20:10 |
| ttx | dtroyer: and constant work to integrate more projects, i suppose | 20:10 |
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| ttx | Comments / Questions on the Team/effort/community maturity aspect ? | 20:11 |
| dtroyer | right. a lot of that work comes out of the projects though as they know how their code should run | 20:11 |
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| ttx | OK, ready to vote ? | 20:12 |
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| jd__ | yup | 20:12 |
| mikal | Sure | 20:12 |
| markmc | #vote yes | 20:12 |
| ttx | tss | 20:12 |
| ttx | wait for the signal | 20:12 |
| markmc | #vote ok | 20:12 |
| markwash | #vote lol | 20:12 |
| ttx | #startvote Accept Devstack as an official OpenStack program? yes, no, abstain | 20:12 |
| openstack | Begin voting on: Accept Devstack as an official OpenStack program? Valid vote options are yes, no, abstain. | 20:12 |
| openstack | Vote using '#vote OPTION'. Only your last vote counts. | 20:12 |
| mikal | #vote yes | 20:12 |
| markmc | #vote yes | 20:12 |
| galstrom | #vote yes | 20:12 |
| russellb | #vote yes | 20:12 |
| ttx | #vote yes | 20:12 |
| jgriffith | #vote yes | 20:12 |
| shardy | #vote yes | 20:12 |
| mordred | #vote yes | 20:12 |
| * markwash votes for two | 20:12 | |
| jd__ | #vote yes | 20:12 |
| markwash | #vote yes | 20:13 |
| markmcclain | #vote yes | 20:13 |
| ttx | markwash: you need to switch nicks before voting a second time. | 20:13 |
| markwash | ttx: we can probably just let this one slide | 20:13 |
| ttx | yeah | 20:13 |
| gabrielhurley | #vote yes | 20:13 |
| ttx | 30 more seconds | 20:13 |
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| ttx | #endvote | 20:14 |
| openstack | Voted on "Accept Devstack as an official OpenStack program?" Results are | 20:14 |
| openstack | yes (12): markmc, ttx, galstrom, shardy, jd__, russellb, jgriffith, mikal, mordred, gabrielhurley, markwash, markmcclain | 20:14 |
| ttx | So that's a yes. | 20:14 |
| dtroyer | Thanks all...I promise not to rewrite it all in Go. | 20:14 |
| ttx | dtroyer: congrats. Not that it changes anything, but congrats still. | 20:14 |
| jgriffith | dtroyer: haha! | 20:14 |
| ttx | dtroyer: right, I missed that question. | 20:14 |
| mordred | dtroyer: oh. wait. I thought you were going to do the opposite | 20:14 |
| markmc | wait, did we just approve a non-python project? | 20:14 |
| markmc | wut?!? | 20:14 |
| jgriffith | indeed | 20:15 |
| mordred | markmc: my friend - infra has several java repos... | 20:15 |
| ttx | ssshhhh. | 20:15 |
| markmc | mordred, burn! | 20:15 |
| ttx | #topic Open discussion | 20:15 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:15 | |
| ttx | First thing I wanted to mention, I submitted a "Meet the Technical Committee" panel session for the next OpenStack Summit | 20:15 |
| ttx | The idea being to explain what the TC does, our recent changes and decisions, and field questions from the audience | 20:15 |
| gabrielhurley | mordred: you better hope the board don't make you use the common python API code for all that... | 20:15 |
| ttx | We don't really know who will be in the TC by then, some people will probably not be available at the time it's scheduled (if it's accepted), and we don't really need EVERYONE to be present... | 20:15 |
| ttx | but I wanted to give you an early heads-up in any case | 20:15 |
| mordred | gabrielhurley: I'll implement it as a plugin | 20:15 |
| gabrielhurley | lol | 20:16 |
| ttx | & "plug-in" | 20:16 |
| mordred | ttx: I'll be there - I have no idea if I'll still be TC - but I'll be there | 20:16 |
| ttx | mordred: trying to crash ALL the panels ? | 20:16 |
| gabrielhurley | ttx: +1, the "meet the core devs" sessions are always useful and well-attended at other open source conferences. | 20:16 |
| markmc | ttx, sounds like a good idea (the TC panel thing) | 20:16 |
| ttx | The other thing I wanted to mention is that some of us mentioned the idea of considering non-voting tempest integration as a prerequisite before graduation from incubation | 20:16 |
| ttx | Historically we asked projects to set up QA/gating/tempest integration in the first months after graduation... | 20:16 |
| mikal | gabrielhurley: should we have a meet the core devs session at the summit then? | 20:16 |
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| mordred | ttx: ++ | 20:17 |
| ttx | But in some cases that came back to bite us as other priorities tend to interfere | 20:17 |
| mordred | I would very much like to have this be a real thing | 20:17 |
| ttx | If we take that stance, it should be communicated. Trove might find it difficult to set up such thing in the time left before the end-of-cycle graduation review (end of August) | 20:17 |
| gabrielhurley | mikal: that's called "the entire summit". just getting the TC together and answering questions is good enough. | 20:17 |
| mordred | graduation from incubation should have as a requirement demonstrable non-voting gate jobs | 20:17 |
| mordred | that work | 20:17 |
| markmc | tempest requirement sounds reasonable ... but there's some minimal bar of test coverage too | 20:17 |
| markmc | not just "a single tempest test to ping the API endpoint" | 20:17 |
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| mordred | nope. it should make us say "yes, when we turn that on as a gate, it will matter" | 20:18 |
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| mordred | and have been running long enough that it doesn't seem flaky | 20:18 |
| ttx | markmc: sure, we always had that test coverage question... askign that they set up some CI gate is new though | 20:18 |
| mikal | gabrielhurley: well, we discourage conference attendees from coming to design summit sessions now, so that's not entirely true | 20:18 |
| markmc | the CI gate has to test something though | 20:18 |
| mordred | thing is - one of the things they get out of incubation is that infra will talk to them | 20:18 |
| gabrielhurley | mikal: damn. you've got me there... propose it if you like. ::shrug:: | 20:18 |
| mordred | so I'd see that they should make use of that during their incubation | 20:18 |
| ttx | It /MIGHT/ make Trove fail graduation if they can't make it happen in the remaining time. | 20:18 |
| ttx | hub_cap: fair warning ^ | 20:19 |
| markmc | mordred, what, at a minimum, should the gate for a new project test? | 20:19 |
| hub_cap | oh im watching | 20:19 |
| hub_cap | thx ttx | 20:19 |
| hub_cap | but i do have a Q | 20:19 |
| hub_cap | how come im alerted to this < 2mo in | 20:19 |
| mordred | markmc: I don't know - I think quality of the gate might need to be ajugdgement call from us for a bit | 20:19 |
| ttx | hub_cap: given that you're the first project to be held to that standard, feel free to raise questions | 20:19 |
| hub_cap | and required :) cant it be for /new/ projects? | 20:19 |
| markmc | mordred, right - we need to give fair warning that it's not just a single API ping test | 20:19 |
| hub_cap | i feel it'd be fair if i knew it from teh start, since heat integration was my requirement | 20:19 |
| mordred | hub_cap: to be fair - you DO have a devstack-based integration gating test right now - so I betcha a single person could get that transitioned to the devstack gate if they were motivated | 20:20 |
| mordred | but it's a fair question | 20:20 |
| hub_cap | im _totally_ interested in tempest, and its #2 on the list of things for me to do | 20:20 |
| hub_cap | but heat being #1 i dont want to skimp on it :) | 20:20 |
| mordred | I'm fine with not adding the hard requirement this cycle - especially because I know that trove does have testing automation based on devstack-gate already | 20:21 |
| hub_cap | sure mordred but motivated != pressured ;) | 20:21 |
| mordred | but I do want it to be a thing that we consider important | 20:21 |
| hub_cap | +1 mordred as soon as im done w/ heat integration im doing it | 20:21 |
| ttx | hub_cap: it's a bit unfair to sump the requirement after so many months of incubation, yes | 20:22 |
| hub_cap | heh ttx | 20:22 |
| mordred | devananda: ^^ also, this may or may not apply to you too | 20:22 |
| hub_cap | we are diligently trying to get out of incubation this cycle fwiw | 20:22 |
| ttx | I'm fine with considering a good work in progress sufficient in the Trove case, if we have insurance it's really top priority for the team | 20:22 |
| hub_cap | err, graduate incubation ;) | 20:22 |
| hub_cap | ttx: guaranteed its my prio after heat integration | 20:23 |
| ttx | mordred, others: thoughts ? | 20:23 |
| hub_cap | im not a fan of having tests that are different from the community | 20:23 |
| hub_cap | but we have tests :) and a ton of em | 20:23 |
| ttx | Next on the open discussion we have Trove scope expansion to NRDB. It was raised a bit late to be formally considered by the TC, but we can still discuss it | 20:24 |
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| hub_cap | yea i figured ttx | 20:24 |
| hub_cap | id be happy to start the discusion now and finish it next wk | 20:24 |
| ttx | annegentle wanted to make sure her mission statement was ok, too, before she runs with it | 20:24 |
| hub_cap | ok /me waits | 20:24 |
| markmc | heh, a schedule for the open discussion :) | 20:25 |
| hub_cap | lol | 20:25 |
| markmc | agenda, rather | 20:25 |
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| ttx | "open discussion" just means "in parallel" for me :) | 20:25 |
| hub_cap | ok then ill go! | 20:25 |
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| ttx | hub_cap: go for it | 20:26 |
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| hub_cap | so our redis POC makes no changes to the core api+core infrastructure. its just another _impl_. there are 2 extensions that are tied a bit to the guest impl but the redis guys are making those extensions in the guest as well. the guest already has a notion of 'im service X', so it can pretty easily get extensions from the codebase as well | 20:26 |
| hub_cap | and the /clusters api will also have 'cluster flavors' as we call it | 20:26 |
| hub_cap | so if you upgrade your redis instance, you will have a list of avail flavors so to speak, to upgrade to (not many for redis, mysql has many more) | 20:27 |
| markmc | hub_cap, is the POC code posted anywhere? | 20:27 |
| hub_cap | markmc: sooooo it is, pre rename | 20:27 |
| hub_cap | let me push it into the codebase | 20:27 |
| hub_cap | or at least put up a WIP review | 20:27 |
| hub_cap | im sick as a dog today but ill rip it out tomorrow | 20:27 |
| mordred | put up a WIP review I think would be great | 20:27 |
| markmc | it'd be great to do that, fire a mail to openstack-dev and let folks take a look | 20:27 |
| hub_cap | roger | 20:27 |
| * markmc doesn't have much of an opinion | 20:28 | |
| hub_cap | absolutely. ill reply to the email i sent | 20:28 |
| hub_cap | i like your opinion markmc :) | 20:28 |
| ttx | anything else hub_cap could do in preparation for next week's decision ? | 20:28 |
| markmc | but maybe there's someone out there who has started working on something like this and has good insights | 20:28 |
| mordred | so - my concern is | 20:28 |
| hub_cap | :o | 20:28 |
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| mordred | what do we do if now trove has mysql + redis + cassandra + mongodb + bearddb | 20:28 |
| mordred | and we end up with the virt-layer problem in nova | 20:29 |
| hub_cap | +1 to bearddb | 20:29 |
| mordred | of not-well-tested backends or backends that are abandoned | 20:29 |
| hub_cap | well mordred i wont accept any impl w/o sufficient tests | 20:29 |
| hub_cap | and i will deprecate / remove them if they are not used | 20:29 |
| hub_cap | i dont like bitrot | 20:29 |
| mordred | but are you going to expect the infra to test all the different backend combos? | 20:29 |
| russellb | mordred: i'm moving to requiring public CI for all of them by the release of Icehouse (even if it's third party testing, as long as results are public) | 20:30 |
| mordred | russellb: ++ | 20:30 |
| hub_cap | +1 russellb ill do the same | 20:30 |
| russellb | i'd like to see a similar requirement everywhere | 20:30 |
| mordred | yeah. I could totally live with that | 20:30 |
| hub_cap | well mordred ill fire up clusters, mysql or _blah_ | 20:30 |
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| russellb | i know jgriffith is wanting to do something along those lines as well, based on recent ML posts | 20:30 |
| jgriffith | this sounds vaguely familiar :) | 20:30 |
| russellb | jgriffith: :-) | 20:30 |
| hub_cap | heh | 20:30 |
| mordred | my main concern was explosive backends | 20:30 |
| jgriffith | I think it's a natural progression | 20:30 |
| mordred | hrm | 20:30 |
| hub_cap | dirty | 20:30 |
| * mordred looks away in shame | 20:31 | |
| jgriffith | mordred: ha!!! | 20:31 |
| russellb | >_< | 20:31 |
| ttx | -_- | 20:31 |
| hub_cap | :D i liked it | 20:31 |
| markmc | *snort* | 20:31 |
| * hub_cap channels my inner markwash | 20:31 | |
| annegentle | lol | 20:31 |
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| * markwash lold | 20:31 | |
| jgriffith | I think coffee just came out my nose | 20:31 |
| hub_cap | so, mordred given that i wont allow code w/o sufficient tests | 20:32 |
| jgriffith | which is still better than what happened to mordred | 20:32 |
| hub_cap | tempest tests, since they are new | 20:32 |
| hub_cap | and that ill work w/ you to make sure that your infinite cloud resources are not wasted :P | 20:32 |
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| hub_cap | fwiw, we will be doign the same testing w/ mysql, for clusters.. so, i think its a natural progression. and cluster testing will be in tempest as well | 20:32 |
| hub_cap | and we could say the same w/ RDB systems, im sure we could impl a ton of those as well and end up w/ teh same issues | 20:33 |
| hub_cap | clustered sqlite anyone? | 20:33 |
| * hub_cap assumes its not really possible ;) | 20:34 | |
| mordred | oh god | 20:34 |
| ttx | ok, any more questions on trove nrdb ? More next week about this anyway | 20:34 |
| hub_cap | yes ttx. ill have the POC shot to the ML tomorrow | 20:34 |
| hub_cap | for your perusing | 20:34 |
| ttx | annegentle: want to raise your program description, or the consequences of it ? | 20:34 |
| hub_cap | me annegentle? | 20:35 |
| annegentle | ttx: I'll just point out the summary | 20:35 |
| annegentle | Since we cannot govern all documentation equally with the resources available, our focus is core first and users first… | 20:35 |
| hub_cap | oh sry ttx... i thought annegentle said that to me, the fever is getting the best of me | 20:35 |
| annegentle | oh dear :) | 20:36 |
| ttx | annegentle: I think prioritization is fair. | 20:36 |
| annegentle | I think I'll be shaping and honing further as we work on release documents, but I think that we'll continuously publish all the time. | 20:36 |
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| annegentle | it's just that continuous release doesn't mean "all the documented procedures all the time" | 20:37 |
| ttx | annegentle: I still think if someone wants to work on some integrated project and document that, he should still be able to do so within the docs team | 20:37 |
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| annegentle | ttx: absolutely, we'll coach and assist as much as possible | 20:38 |
| ttx | but mentioning priorities sounds good to me | 20:38 |
| ttx | comments on that ? Can annegnetly run with her program description ? | 20:38 |
| ttx | annegentle, even | 20:38 |
| annegentle | can I run gently? :) | 20:38 |
| ttx | gently. | 20:38 |
| annegentle | I believe perfection is the enemy of good. | 20:39 |
| * markwash thinks you should /nick annerunsgently | 20:39 | |
| mikal | I'm ok with focussing on core and users | 20:39 |
| annegentle | so we will continuously improve to collaborate wider, and we've gotten many more contributors even in the last three months | 20:39 |
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| markmc | I'd be a little wary of using "core" as the basis for prioritization, but absolutely some projects should be prioritized over others | 20:40 |
| hub_cap | heh | 20:40 |
| ttx | markmc: as long as it's not exclusive, i don't mind so much | 20:40 |
| markwash | I guess I pretty much trust the docs people to know the correct prioritization | 20:40 |
| markmc | *nod* | 20:40 |
| markmc | e.g. "what users care most about" | 20:41 |
| anneisgentle | markmc: yeah and I specifically took the user committee's definitions of users | 20:41 |
| ttx | agree that documenting ceilometer is less important than documenting heat, for example | 20:41 |
| anneisgentle | ttx: the great thing is, ceilometer has a great dev doc site | 20:41 |
| ttx | heh | 20:42 |
| ttx | Last thing I had on the agenda, although it's a bit emply if Rob is not around, is the Spider "what is core" thing | 20:42 |
| ttx | "empty" | 20:42 |
| markmc | so, on the "what is core" thing | 20:42 |
| markmc | I feel like the conversation has progressed on into the far distance | 20:42 |
| markmc | and I'm still stuck back trying to figure out what problem we're addressing | 20:43 |
| markmc | e.g. I thought it was about using the trademark as a lever to ensure compatibility between public clouds | 20:43 |
| markmc | and help form a market place of public clouds | 20:43 |
| markmc | yet, rob's "why we care about core" blog: | 20:43 |
| markmc | http://robhirschfeld.com/2013/07/22/making-openstack-meaningful/ | 20:43 |
| markmc | doesn't mention any of that | 20:43 |
| ttx | markmc: so I'm not sure it makes any progress to solve the question of inclusive vs. limited number of projects | 20:43 |
| markmc | it's all about ensuring we have a healthy project or something | 20:43 |
| markmc | this is just occurring to me now, really | 20:44 |
| ttx | some people apparently think that interop is easier if you limit the number of projects | 20:44 |
| markmc | I'm just curious what other TC members make of the discussion | 20:44 |
| ttx | I kinda think the opposite | 20:44 |
| jgriffith | It's kind of all over the board IMO | 20:44 |
| ttx | if we let every "openstack cloud" implement their own version of designate... we lose in interop | 20:44 |
| jgriffith | markmc: My opinion was intially a better/tighter definition of OpenStack | 20:44 |
| mikal | markmc: I think public cloud interop is important, but I'm not convinced that a big trademark hammer is the way to do it | 20:45 |
| jgriffith | but I don't think that's the direction any longer | 20:45 |
| mikal | markmc: but I don't have an alternate proposal either | 20:45 |
| gabrielhurley | I'm with jgriffith: everyone want's a different problem addressed. We're no longer trying to achieve any one thing with it (if we ever were). | 20:45 |
| markwash | markmc: +1 let's reaffirm the problem statement | 20:45 |
| ttx | if we say "an openstack cloud must have DNSaaS and it must be Designate" then the end result is more interoperable | 20:45 |
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| ttx | I think the tradeoff is between "a lot of openstack clouds, somehow interoperable" and " a few very interoperable openstack clouds" | 20:46 |
| mordred | yes | 20:46 |
| markmc | but like | 20:46 |
| markmc | what does e..g "Velocity – the rate of progress and quality of the code base. " | 20:46 |
| markmc | or "Culture – open source culture strongly encourages sharing and collaboration." | 20:46 |
| markmc | have to do with any of this? | 20:46 |
| mordred | markmc: the stuff that rob is collecting and putting together | 20:46 |
| jgriffith | markmc: I can't speak for Rob but I had some conversations about that unrelated to the interop question | 20:46 |
| AlanClark | is it kosher for me to jump into the conversation since I am not on the TC? | 20:47 |
| mordred | are supposed to be basis for discussion and not the definitoin of it | 20:47 |
| mordred | AlanClark: please do | 20:47 |
| ttx | markmc: where is that ? | 20:47 |
| AlanClark | thanks | 20:47 |
| mordred | this is all open sores and stuff in here | 20:47 |
| jgriffith | markmc: we talked a bit about how to keep components like Nova, Neutron etc focused and continuing to get better | 20:47 |
| gabrielhurley | I'd also like to point out that ""an openstack cloud must have DNSaaS and it must be Designate" then the end result is more interoperable" is not actually true. How often do you try to make the existing OS services talk to themselves across clouds? | 20:47 |
| jgriffith | with the explosion of *other* things being introduced | 20:47 |
| ttx | markmc: I've been looking at http://robhirschfeld.com/2013/07/24/what-is-core-strawman/ and it doesn't mention velocity or culture | 20:47 |
| gabrielhurley | I'd argue that competing implementations of the same standard improves interop | 20:47 |
| jgriffith | gabrielhurley: interesting point, which makes me suggest we need to define better the *what* | 20:48 |
| markmc | ttx, http://robhirschfeld.com/2013/07/22/making-openstack-meaningful/ is framed as "why core is important" | 20:48 |
| mordred | gabrielhurley: well, that's one of the things that we keep coming back to - we are not a standards body | 20:48 |
| markmc | ttx, from http://robhirschfeld.com/2013/07/22/kicking-off-core/ | 20:48 |
| gabrielhurley | we don't know what we are | 20:48 |
| mordred | we are and always have been, a body where implementation is the definition | 20:48 |
| shardy | gabrielhurley: we are trying to do exactly that with heat in standalone mode | 20:48 |
| mordred | we do | 20:48 |
| jgriffith | gabrielhurley: +10000 | 20:48 |
| mordred | know that we are not a standards body | 20:48 |
| ttx | markmc: I skipped that one and jumped directly to the strawman | 20:48 |
| gabrielhurley | says who? | 20:48 |
| mordred | we've said that strongly since day one | 20:48 |
| gabrielhurley | there's a lot of language in what Rob sent out that borders on being a standards body | 20:48 |
| mordred | at no point have we ever said differnetly | 20:48 |
| mordred | well, we'll fix that | 20:49 |
| mordred | that's why the focus on running the code | 20:49 |
| markmc | ttx, I'm note sure the strawman details the problem being addressed either | 20:49 |
| mordred | and not just being api compat | 20:49 |
| mordred | if all you need is api compat to be openstack | 20:49 |
| mordred | then we're a standards body - just a poorly organized one | 20:49 |
| gabrielhurley | mordred: that's why *you* focus on running the code... there are still a lot of folks in the community who are more concerned with API specs. | 20:49 |
| mordred | but we're not - we ship software | 20:49 |
| mordred | absolutely. api specs are important | 20:49 |
| mordred | and I gotta well you - when clouds diverge we all lose | 20:49 |
| gabrielhurley | agreed on that | 20:50 |
| mordred | but I'm not interested in specs that are there to allow some jackass to go rewrite openstack in java because he just doesn't like python | 20:50 |
| ttx | personally I have 3 gripes with the thing: (1) the use of "plug-in" term (solved), (2) it doesn't address the hard question of inclusive vs. limited approach, and (3) it relies a lot on tempest testing which will not just happen by magic | 20:50 |
| jd__ | that could be a song | 20:50 |
| mordred | becuse that doesn't help anyone | 20:50 |
| jgriffith | mordred: I agree with that, but I think there's a spot in the middle | 20:50 |
| mordred | jgriffith: I agree with you :) | 20:50 |
| mordred | I just think that we have to have code - if all we have is a spec, then we're not very interesting | 20:51 |
| mordred | ttx: it's not intended to address 2 | 20:51 |
| gabrielhurley | mordred: you'd rather cling to python than accept some jackass' rewrite even if it's better, faster, and more reliable? (hypothetically speaking) | 20:51 |
| mordred | gabrielhurley: if the TC decides that the jackass rewrite is better and that we should switch to it, then fine | 20:52 |
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| mordred | but until then, whatever that thing is, it's not openstack | 20:52 |
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| markwash | mordred: that's not really how consensus evolves :-) | 20:52 |
| gabrielhurley | I'm not arguing for not having code, I just don't want to us to write bylaws that specify coding practices or languages | 20:52 |
| hub_cap | is that not already implicit? | 20:52 |
| mordred | I also do not want that - and don't want to imply that | 20:52 |
| hub_cap | :P | 20:52 |
| mordred | but I think that openstack is quite specifically the output of those of us who form openstack | 20:52 |
| jgriffith | No offense but aren't we getting a bit sideways on this? | 20:52 |
| gabrielhurley | yep | 20:53 |
| mordred | heh | 20:53 |
| gabrielhurley | and yep | 20:53 |
| markmc | jgriffith, aresways is the precise term | 20:53 |
| markmc | heh, typo | 20:53 |
| jgriffith | markmc: haha | 20:53 |
| markmc | sad, failed joke | 20:53 |
| mordred | ttx: it's intended to provide framing for 2 | 20:53 |
| jgriffith | intent was received :) | 20:53 |
| ttx | markwash: at the heart of the project is a community of developers. You won't turn them into Java devs overnight | 20:53 |
| mordred | with the idea that, like judgements about technical things, there's always going to be judgement calls to be made, and you can't just constitution a defition up | 20:53 |
| gabrielhurley | soooo... we should refine/restate the problem definition and then cut everything from the "what is core" document that's not addressing that problem? | 20:54 |
| jgriffith | gabrielhurley: might be a good way to start | 20:54 |
| ttx | markwash: so I'm with lordred on that one, whatever that thing is, it's not openstack | 20:54 |
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| mordred | I think that the point of the document is still being very poorly communicated | 20:54 |
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| gabrielhurley | lordred... he's been upgraded | 20:54 |
| markwash | whos trying to make people into java devs? | 20:54 |
| ttx | markwash: <gabrielhurley> mordred: you'd rather cling to python than accept some jackass' rewrite even if it's better, faster, and more reliable? (hypothetically speaking) | 20:54 |
| galstrom | gabrielhurley: ++ | 20:55 |
| markwash | I just think reboots are healthy and it looks like a cohesive community would never do them | 20:55 |
| jgriffith | ttx: mordred gabrielhurley so last spring we started having this disucssion among the TC IIRC (what is core) and punted it to the board | 20:55 |
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| jgriffith | IIRC we were trying to think about "what is OpenStack" | 20:55 |
| gabrielhurley | that ^^^. it's not something you should be proscriptive against. just trust that if you do the right thing you won't ever need to. | 20:55 |
| jgriffith | so we punted | 20:55 |
| ttx | I was happy to punt | 20:55 |
| mordred | this document is an attempt to collect all of the various fibers that are running around this topic | 20:55 |
| mordred | it turns out that there are MANY | 20:55 |
| gabrielhurley | too many | 20:56 |
| jgriffith | ttx: yes, now I remember why we did so :) | 20:56 |
| mordred | as the basis to frame a real discussion | 20:56 |
| markmc | way too many | 20:56 |
| markmc | is this discussion purely about using the trademark to ensuring interoperability clouds which call themselves OpenStack? | 20:56 |
| ttx | jgriffith: I think we should keep it punted | 20:56 |
| mordred | it's not intended to be a definition of core | 20:56 |
| ttx | jgriffith: | 20:56 |
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| jgriffith | ttx: I'm mixed, only because I'd like some false sense of my destiny :) | 20:56 |
| ttx | and just make sure they don't insert tech language in wahetever they come up with | 20:56 |
| mordred | also, I think the word core needs to diaf | 20:56 |
| mordred | it's become useless | 20:56 |
| jgriffith | ttx: that may be the best approach | 20:56 |
| markmc | mordred, we should call this discussion "how our trademark program for public clouds should work" | 20:56 |
| anneisgentle | mordred: (or lordred, whatevs) what's diaf? | 20:57 |
| jgriffith | ttx: I don't think we necessarily have the same perspective/interests | 20:57 |
| mordred | anneisgentle: 'die in a fire' | 20:57 |
| hub_cap | fire fire fire | 20:57 |
| med_ | die in a fire | 20:57 |
| jgriffith | ttx: ^^ I mean TC versus board | 20:57 |
| ttx | markmc: jgriffith has a point. Should we care, as the TC ? | 20:57 |
| gabrielhurley | I say we should care, yes. | 20:57 |
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| mordred | markmc: I think it's "What does the word OpenStack mean?" | 20:57 |
| markmc | what's in the strawman is an awful lot of stuff we care about | 20:57 |
| jgriffith | markmc: ttx that's a great point, and I'm mixed | 20:57 |
| gabrielhurley | expecially to make sure they're not inserting extra stuff into it like they clearly are | 20:57 |
| ttx | gabrielhurley: care about trademark rules ? | 20:57 |
| mordred | markmc: which I think is broader and more relevant than trademark law, but certainly informs that | 20:57 |
| markwash | I mean, as much as this has to do with how api specs work, I think we care | 20:57 |
| markwash | does it have nothing to do with api specs? | 20:58 |
| mordred | I do not believe it's intended to have anything do to with api specs | 20:58 |
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| markmc | mordred, if that's the discussion, I think it's doomed | 20:58 |
| gabrielhurley | ttx: if they were *only* and I mean really *only* talking about trademark rules I think we should be aware but it's totally their right to ignore us. But they're not at all. | 20:58 |
| ttx | gabrielhurley: I agree we need to watch the process to make sure it doesn't go west | 20:58 |
| mordred | markmc: that has to be answered. full stop. | 20:58 |
| markmc | mordred, start with "what does the word Cloud mean?" then :) | 20:58 |
| mordred | markmc: becuase without an answer to that, the question of how the trademark around it can be used is meaningless | 20:58 |
| mordred | markmc: no, this is very specific and very important | 20:58 |
| jgriffith | markmc: ha!! I just solved that one the other day :) | 20:58 |
| ttx | gabrielhurley: *that* is what we need to address I think. | 20:59 |
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| mordred | because if a person is going to interact with a thing named "OpenSTack" they need to know what they can and cannot expect from that thing | 20:59 |
| mordred | which is why we name things with proper names | 20:59 |
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| ttx | gabrielhurley: not sure where they go beyond trademark rules though | 20:59 |
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| ttx | one minute left | 20:59 |
| jgriffith | mordred: +1 | 20:59 |
| mordred | to give htem defining characterstics | 20:59 |
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| markmc | mordred, "a thing named OpenStack" == a public OpenStack cloud | 20:59 |
| jgriffith | mordred: that's the part I'm interested in | 20:59 |
| markmc | mordred, or the project, or ... ? | 20:59 |
| markmc | OpenStack is a lot of things | 20:59 |
| mordred | markmc: the product | 20:59 |
| jgriffith | markmc: no | 20:59 |
| gabrielhurley | markmc: "public"? | 20:59 |
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| mordred | markmc: if I want to interact with an openstack cloud - what can I expect from it | 20:59 |
| ttx | last minute thing: I'm not very hapopy we have that discussion on openstack-tc btw | 21:00 |
| jgriffith | markmc: framwork for building/managing public and private clouds | 21:00 |
| gabrielhurley | there are a lot of private openstack clouds that care about the trademark | 21:00 |
| mordred | markmc: it's entirely possible... | 21:00 |
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| mordred | markmc: that we need to be more specific | 21:00 |
| mordred | similar to java | 21:00 |
| jgriffith | gabrielhurley: +10000 | 21:00 |
| mordred | Java VM | 21:00 |
| mordred | Java Language | 21:00 |
| mordred | etc. | 21:00 |
| ttx | would like Rob to push it to a public list if it is to continue | 21:00 |
| jgriffith | automate all things! | 21:00 |
| ttx | OK, we are out of time | 21:00 |
| gabrielhurley | ugh... 'cuz that'll narrow it down | 21:00 |
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| ttx | more next week maybe | 21:00 |
| markmc | OpenStack the word is more than just what the expectations of the interface to an OpenStack install looks like | 21:00 |
| ttx | or on the list | 21:00 |
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| mordred | markmc: I agree | 21:00 |
| markmc | which is why I thought "the word" thing was too broad | 21:00 |
| ttx | #endmeeting | 21:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 21:01 | |
| jgriffith | gabrielhurley: agreed, but that seems to be where we're heading :) | 21:01 |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Jul 30 21:00:59 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 21:01 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2013/tc.2013-07-30-20.02.html | 21:01 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2013/tc.2013-07-30-20.02.txt | 21:01 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2013/tc.2013-07-30-20.02.log.html | 21:01 |
| markmc | hah | 21:01 |
| * markmc got the last word :-P | 21:01 | |
| mordred | markmc: I thought we had enough context in the conversation to know that I wasn't trying to talk about definitoin of openstack the commnunity of people | 21:01 |
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| mordred | markmc: never!!! | 21:01 |
| mordred | :) | 21:01 |
| markmc | heh | 21:01 |
| markmc | mordred, the context is lost on me now, honestly | 21:01 |
| gabrielhurley | my head hurts | 21:01 |
| ttx | next meeting | 21:01 |
| ttx | gabrielhurley: 50 minutes to recover | 21:01 |
| ttx | markmc, henrynash, jd__, markwash, jgriffith, russellb, shardy, gabrielhurley, markmcclain: around ? | 21:01 |
| markwash | ish! | 21:02 |
| jgriffith | o/ | 21:02 |
| jd__ | da | 21:02 |
| shardy | here | 21:02 |
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| markmcclain | o/ | 21:02 |
| gabrielhurley | lol | 21:02 |
| gabrielhurley | 2:52 PM, I'll be back | 21:02 |
| aclark_ | and I didn't get to jump in Freenode chose to dump me ;-( | 21:02 |
| russellb | here | 21:02 |
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| ttx | aclark_: more next week ! | 21:02 |
| ttx | #startmeeting project | 21:02 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Jul 30 21:02:36 2013 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is ttx. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 21:02 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 21:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: project)" | 21:02 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'project' | 21:02 |
| ttx | #link http://wiki.openstack.org/Meetings/ProjectMeeting | 21:02 |
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| ttx | Back in business after last week pause, we'll have a look at havana-3 plans and how reasonable they are (or not) | 21:02 |
| ttx | #info feature freeze is on *September 4* | 21:03 |
| ttx | Note that some projects implement a feature proposal freeze a few weeks before | 21:03 |
| ttx | #topic General stuff | 21:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "General stuff (Meeting topic: project)" | 21:03 | |
| *** hemanth has quit IRC | 21:03 | |
| ttx | I don't have anything specific | 21:03 |
| ttx | Oh. Yes I have | 21:03 |
| apevec | ttx, I'd like to repeat that we have planned stable/grizzly freeze on Aug 1st | 21:04 |
| ttx | If you have generic contraints you'd like applied to desig nsummit topics, like "no QA session at the same time as Infra sessions" please send them my way ASAp | 21:04 |
| apevec | and release 2013.1.3 on Aug 8th | 21:04 |
| shardy | apevec: heat has several outstanding reviews FYI | 21:04 |
| ttx | apevec: how is it doing so far ? | 21:04 |
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| ttx | going* | 21:05 |
| apevec | adam_g has sent status yesterday, there were two exceptions discussed on the stable-maint | 21:05 |
| apevec | shardy, so you want to have heat 2013.1.3 ? | 21:05 |
| ttx | sdague, annegentle, mordred: news from QA/Docs/Infra programs ? | 21:06 |
| shardy | apevec: yes please, but we can discuss that offline :) | 21:06 |
| sdague | so the neutron job is in really bad shape | 21:06 |
| mordred | ttx: we're having fun issues with requirements - but we're working on making them more solid | 21:06 |
| ttx | sdague: we'll talk about Neutron testing in the Neutron section | 21:06 |
| shardy | or after the mtg rather | 21:06 |
| mordred | ttx: this is going to lead to more aggressive alignment on the requirements repo | 21:06 |
| anneisgentle | We're holding Docs Boot Camp in Mountain View Sept 9 and 10, thanks to Mirantis for playing host. | 21:06 |
| anneisgentle | #link wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Docs_Bootcamp_2013 | 21:06 |
| sdague | ok, requirements chasing is getting interesting... not there yet | 21:07 |
| mordred | ttx: because doing otherwise is killing us | 21:07 |
| markmc | mordred, any more details? the issues, the changes? | 21:07 |
| gabrielhurley | +1 | 21:07 |
| ttx | mordred: aggressivity++ | 21:07 |
| mordred | markmc: the issues have to do with the fact that pip installs wind up with state based on the arbitrary sequence | 21:07 |
| mordred | rather than the graphe of needs | 21:07 |
| markmc | ok | 21:07 |
| mordred | so the first thing that sdague and I are working on | 21:07 |
| markmc | yeah, think I saw something go by | 21:08 |
| markmc | fun | 21:08 |
| shardy | anneisgentle: any way to participate remotely? | 21:08 |
| mordred | is getting devstack to run the update.py script in setup_develop | 21:08 |
| mordred | so that we have the same current behavior as devstack, but aligned to what's in requirements | 21:08 |
| mordred | along with that we'll start gating changes to requirements on devstack | 21:08 |
| anneisgentle | shardy: sorry, not at this point | 21:08 |
| mordred | then, we'll start auto-creating and proposing changes to projects on changes to requirements repo | 21:08 |
| shardy | anneisgentle: OK, thanks | 21:08 |
| anneisgentle | shardy: we're always here for you :) Monday office hours. | 21:09 |
| mordred | because, well, we will have already tested that they work | 21:09 |
| ttx | ok, time to get into the specifics | 21:09 |
| ttx | #topic Oslo status | 21:09 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Oslo status (Meeting topic: project)" | 21:09 | |
| ttx | markmc: hi! | 21:09 |
| ttx | #link https://launchpad.net/oslo/+milestone/havana-3 | 21:09 |
| markmc | howdy | 21:09 |
| markmc | it's all looking pretty fine | 21:10 |
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| ttx | You have 8 tracked blueprints targeted to h3, which is pretty reasonable | 21:10 |
| markmc | apart from messaging | 21:10 |
| ttx | oh, 5 now | 21:10 |
| markmc | basically, oslo.messaging is in gerrit etc. | 21:10 |
| markmc | and now has working kombu and qpid drivers | 21:10 |
| markmc | not thoroughly tested, but the basics work | 21:10 |
| markmc | the big question is whether we can complete their testing and get e.g. nova switched over to using it | 21:11 |
| ttx | Most of your stuff is already under review, which is good news | 21:11 |
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| markmc | we've set ourselves a deadline of August 16th for a go/no-go | 21:11 |
| ttx | sounds a bit risky to do it, and a bit risky not to do it | 21:11 |
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| markmc | i.e. unless nova is using oslo.messaging at that point, we punt to icehouse | 21:11 |
| ttx | markmc: +1 | 21:11 |
| markmc | not doing it shouldn't have an impact on havana | 21:11 |
| ttx | I think it's good to wrap up oslo changes a few weeks before H3 anyway, so that we have time to push oslo-incubator syncs at the end of the milestone | 21:11 |
| markmc | any messaging features we want for havana will go in through oslo-incubator anyway | 21:11 |
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| markmc | the other big messaging one is the message security patches | 21:12 |
| markmc | which look in great shape | 21:12 |
| markmc | and the keystone KDS patches look pretty well advance too | 21:12 |
| markmc | so I'm fairly confident that will make it for havana | 21:12 |
| markmc | a fair bit of work to make nova etc. use it, though | 21:12 |
| ttx | ok | 21:13 |
| ttx | markmc: anything else you wanted to raise ? | 21:13 |
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| markmc | it begs the question whether we should have e.g. nova blueprints for "use oslo.messaging" and "use oslo message security" | 21:13 |
| markmc | not just nova, all rpc-using projects | 21:13 |
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| ttx | markmc: does that sound fair to say that oslo should be finished with its features a few weeks before feature freeze ? | 21:13 |
| markmc | ttx, yes | 21:14 |
| ttx | markmc: sounds like you want blueprints that affect multiple projects! | 21:14 |
| markmc | a blueprint with tasks for multiple projects | 21:14 |
| markmc | i.e. like launchpad bugs | 21:14 |
| ttx | markmc: your wishes may soon be granted. | 21:14 |
| markmc | heh | 21:14 |
| markmc | in the meantime? | 21:15 |
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| ttx | in the meantime, tracking as a separate blueprint makes sense to me | 21:15 |
| markmc | would filing blueprints help track stuff? | 21:15 |
| markmc | ok | 21:15 |
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| ttx | Questions about Oslo ? | 21:15 |
| markmc | thanks ttx | 21:15 |
| ttx | #topic Keystone status | 21:15 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Keystone status (Meeting topic: project)" | 21:15 | |
| ttx | henrynash: around ? | 21:15 |
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| ttx | looks like henrynash is not around, jd__ you up ? | 21:16 |
| jd__ | hum? | 21:16 |
| jd__ | yep! | 21:16 |
| ttx | #undo | 21:17 |
| openstack | Removing item from minutes: <ircmeeting.items.Topic object at 0x20a3f50> | 21:17 |
| ttx | #topic Ceilometer status | 21:17 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Ceilometer status (Meeting topic: project)" | 21:17 | |
| ttx | jd__: hey | 21:17 |
| ttx | #link https://launchpad.net/ceilometer/+milestone/havana-3 | 21:17 |
| ttx | You have 13 tracked blueprints, which is slightly optimistic compared to your usual velocity | 21:17 |
| ttx | It's also highly dependent on Eoghan and yourself, representing 9 of those 13 | 21:17 |
| ttx | How are you both going to make it ? | 21:17 |
| jd__ | we believe! | 21:18 |
| jd__ | though one of my blueprint "Alarming" isn't a real one | 21:18 |
| jd__ | it's just one final to track a bunch of others | 21:18 |
| jd__ | I don't know if we can change it status so it's clearer for you to track | 21:18 |
| ttx | ok, we'll track that closely | 21:18 |
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| ttx | use-new-rpc-messsage is marked Blocked. Could you explain what it is blocking on ? | 21:19 |
| jd__ | ttx: yes, check its dependency graph actually | 21:19 |
| jd__ | we're waiting for https://blueprints.launchpad.net/oslo/+spec/trusted-messaging | 21:19 |
| ttx | ok | 21:20 |
| ttx | stacktach-integration depends on logging-uses-notifications and remove-instance-fault-table, but those have been targeted to "next" | 21:20 |
| jd__ | these are Nova bp I think | 21:20 |
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| ttx | jd__: still sounds difficult to complete your ceilometer bp in h3 if nova's deferred on their side :) | 21:20 |
| jd__ | all I can do is remove stacktach-integration, not sure sandywalsh will be happy | 21:21 |
| jd__ | yep | 21:21 |
| ttx | russellb: ^could you look into that with sandywalsh and jd__ ? | 21:21 |
| jd__ | maybe these aren't reall dep, I'll check with sandywalsh | 21:21 |
| jd__ | -l | 21:21 |
| ttx | jd__: anything you wanted to mention ? | 21:21 |
| jd__ | all good | 21:21 |
| ttx | Questions on Ceilometer ? | 21:21 |
| ttx | (We'll skip Swift since notmyname is not around) | 21:21 |
| ttx | #topic Glance status | 21:22 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Glance status (Meeting topic: project)" | 21:22 | |
| markwash | not fair | 21:22 |
| ttx | markwash: busted | 21:22 |
| markwash | was almost done :-) | 21:22 |
| ttx | 7 tracked blueprints so far, that sounds pretty reasonable | 21:22 |
| ttx | glance-tests-code-duplication still needs triaging :P | 21:22 |
| markwash | indeed it does | 21:22 |
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| markwash | and there is one more that needs to be added to the list | 21:22 |
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| ttx | About api-v2-property-protection, we've been carrying it over for the last 12 months now... | 21:22 |
| ttx | Is there any reason to think that it will hit in the next weeks ? | 21:23 |
| markwash | ttx but now people are working on it! :-) | 21:23 |
| markwash | there has been some activity on the list as well | 21:23 |
| ttx | markwash: I heard that one before I think :) | 21:23 |
| markwash | haha | 21:23 |
| ttx | markwash: so this time it's for real ? | 21:23 |
| markwash | this time, its personal | 21:23 |
| ttx | ok, I'll track that one closely :) | 21:24 |
| markwash | I'm not sure if it will make it, but there is active development and folks I trust | 21:24 |
| ttx | markwash: we pushed an advisory (OSSA-2013-018) for Glance python client today | 21:24 |
| ttx | markwash: how about we tag a new client release to get that out to the crowds ? | 21:24 |
| markwash | sounds good, will do | 21:24 |
| ttx | awesome | 21:24 |
| ttx | markwash: anything you wanted to mention ? | 21:24 |
| markwash | nothing from me, one question though | 21:24 |
| markwash | what is "Beta Available" ? | 21:25 |
| ttx | https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Blueprints#Implementation | 21:25 |
| ttx | "Implementation is almost complete, code is available in a branch or a draft review now" | 21:25 |
| markwash | okay | 21:25 |
| markwash | ty | 21:25 |
| ttx | Questions on Glance ? | 21:25 |
| ttx | Do we have markmcclain in the house ? | 21:26 |
| markmcclain | hi | 21:26 |
| ttx | #topic Neutron status | 21:26 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Neutron status (Meeting topic: project)" | 21:26 | |
| ttx | markmcclain: hi! | 21:26 |
| ttx | #link https://launchpad.net/neutron/+milestone/havana-3 | 21:26 |
| * ttx refreshes ttx.py output, takes time | 21:26 | |
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| ttx | 42 targeted blueprints... about twice as many as the total implemented in havana-2 | 21:27 |
| ttx | This sounds a very unlikely goal, and could lead to issues prioritizing reviews and get the important stuff in | 21:27 |
| ttx | That said, 22 of those 42 are implemented or under code review already... | 21:27 |
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| ttx | So I guess if you pulled an enormous code review effort early on, and pushed back a few of those 43 to "Low" priority... the picture could look a bit more doable | 21:27 |
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| ttx | There are a few without an assignee in there, which in my book could have been plain refused: auto-associate-floating-ip, ml2-multi-segment-api | 21:28 |
| ttx | (you should require an assignee to be set before triaging a blueprint) | 21:28 |
| ttx | markmcclain: openvswitch-kernel-vxlan is marked "Deferred"... should it be set to "next" milestone instead ? | 21:28 |
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| markmcclain | I need to doable check with the subteam working on vxlan | 21:29 |
| markmcclain | might remove it all together | 21:29 |
| ttx | You also have 12 "undefined" blueprints in there that need a priority. Ideally none of them would get higher than "Low" and add to the improbability above :) | 21:29 |
| markmcclain | I'll fix up the 2 unassigned that I missed | 21:29 |
| ttx | nachi, markmcclain, sdague: I wanted to talk about the Neutron gating tests | 21:29 |
| ttx | We made the neutron gate non-voting due to bug 1194026 | 21:30 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1194026 in neutron "check_public_network_connectivity fails with timeout" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1194026 | 21:30 |
| ttx | I'd like to have those tests re-enabled ASAP so that they don't bitrot to the point where we can't use them anymore | 21:30 |
| ttx | What's the status of that ? Are we now hitting bug 1206307 instead ? | 21:30 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1206307 in neutron "neutron-adv-test.sh:773 [Fail] Couldn't ping server in Gating" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1206307 | 21:30 |
| ttx | sdague had to drop off -- markmcclain do you have news on that side ? | 21:31 |
| markmcclain | yeah.. I was chatting with nati_ueno yesterday about it and still have problems reproducing outside of the gate | 21:31 |
| markmcclain | I know that nati_ueno is actively working on the issue | 21:31 |
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| ttx | both bugs are still active ? Or the first one was solved ? | 21:32 |
| markmcclain | the patch we pushed for the first one didn't fully solve the problem | 21:32 |
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| markmcclain | so the bug was reopened | 21:32 |
| ttx | ok, so both bugs are active at this point | 21:32 |
| markmcclain | in the investigation he found the 2nd one | 21:32 |
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| ttx | nachi: feel free to send me an update on your progress... and if you need any help | 21:34 |
| ttx | markmcclain: anything you wanted to raise ? | 21:34 |
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| markmcclain | no | 21:34 |
| ttx | Questions on Neutron ? | 21:34 |
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| ttx | #topic Cinder status | 21:34 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Cinder status (Meeting topic: project)" | 21:34 | |
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| ttx | jgriffith: hola! | 21:34 |
| ttx | #link https://launchpad.net/cinder/+milestone/havana-3 | 21:35 |
| ttx | jgriffith: yt ? | 21:35 |
| ttx | russellb: you there ? | 21:36 |
| hub_cap | hes riding a horse | 21:36 |
| russellb | yep | 21:36 |
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| ttx | #undo | 21:36 |
| openstack | Removing item from minutes: <ircmeeting.items.Link object at 0x23b9110> | 21:36 |
| ttx | #topic Nova status | 21:36 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Nova status (Meeting topic: project)" | 21:36 | |
| ttx | russellb: hey | 21:36 |
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| russellb | hi | 21:36 |
| jgriffith | grrrr | 21:36 |
| ttx | #link https://launchpad.net/nova/+milestone/havana-3 | 21:36 |
| russellb | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2013-July/012323.html | 21:36 |
| * jgriffith snoozes he looses his turn | 21:37 | |
| russellb | so .... yeah. | 21:37 |
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| russellb | i've deferred 10-15 blueprints or so | 21:37 |
| ttx | russellb: so looking at tracked (>Low) blueprints, you are at 51 | 21:37 |
| ttx | compared to 25 delivered during h2 | 21:37 |
| ttx | I suspect you'll need to push more to "Low" (a.k.a. "may land, who knows") priority | 21:37 |
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| russellb | ttx: that's a good idea | 21:37 |
| ttx | easier than deferring | 21:38 |
| ttx | esp. when you don't know what might make it | 21:38 |
| russellb | i'm also expecting a whole bunch to miss the proposal deadline | 21:38 |
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| ttx | When is your "proposed feature freeze" ? | 21:38 |
| russellb | aug 21 | 21:38 |
| russellb | i will work on dropping priority of some | 21:39 |
| russellb | hadn't thought of that | 21:39 |
| ttx | it's an easy trick | 21:39 |
| russellb | but otherwise i feel like the best i can do is try to encourage review priorities, and wait to see what code actually shows up | 21:39 |
| ttx | basically helps prioritizing reviews on one side... and lower expectations on the other | 21:39 |
| russellb | true | 21:39 |
| ttx | image-multiple-location depends on effective-template-base-image-preparing which was not targeted to any milestone | 21:39 |
| ttx | new-hypervisor-docker is marked Blocked... what is it blocking on ? | 21:40 |
| russellb | oh, sorry for not updating whiteboard | 21:40 |
| russellb | he's adding devstack support | 21:40 |
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| russellb | i wanted to have a clear path to being able to test it | 21:40 |
| ttx | ok, that is sort of implied in the current explanation, but wanted to be sure | 21:40 |
| ttx | wouldn't it be nice if we had tasks on blueprints ? | 21:41 |
| russellb | ok, yes, that's all it is | 21:41 |
| russellb | there's Work Items i guess ... | 21:41 |
| ttx | but not for multiple projects. | 21:41 |
| russellb | yeah. | 21:41 |
| ttx | russellb: anything else you wanted to mention ? | 21:41 |
| ttx | Oh, you may have missed the ping earlier | 21:41 |
| russellb | not really, just thinking about what we can do better to avoid this kind of situation in the future | 21:42 |
| russellb | i guess it's being more aggressive with using Low | 21:42 |
| russellb | :-) | 21:42 |
| ttx | <ttx> russellb: ^could you look into that with sandywalsh and jd__ | 21:42 |
| russellb | i did miss that, my connection dropped for a bit | 21:42 |
| russellb | so i don't know what that's referring to | 21:42 |
| ttx | <ttx> stacktach-integration depends on logging-uses-notifications and remove-instance-fault-table, but those have been targeted to "next" | 21:42 |
| ttx | stacktach-integration is a ceilo bp | 21:42 |
| ttx | the other two are nova's | 21:42 |
| russellb | oh | 21:42 |
| russellb | yeah, they hadn't started AFAIK | 21:42 |
| russellb | so i pushed them off | 21:42 |
| ttx | which made my inconsistency detector go bleep | 21:42 |
| ttx | the answer might be to defer the ceilo one as well | 21:43 |
| russellb | so either someone needs to yell at me to say "wait, i'm doing it!" or defer the ceilo one, yeah | 21:43 |
| ttx | could you look into it with sandywalsh and jd__ ? | 21:43 |
| russellb | my deferring triggered some yelling :-) | 21:43 |
| russellb | yes. | 21:43 |
| ttx | Any question on Nova ? | 21:43 |
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| ttx | #topic Cinder status | 21:43 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Cinder status (Meeting topic: project)" | 21:43 | |
| jgriffith | :) | 21:43 |
| ttx | jgriffith:hi!! | 21:44 |
| jgriffith | hosre is back in teh barn | 21:44 |
| jgriffith | hola | 21:44 |
| ttx | #link https://launchpad.net/cinder/+milestone/havana-3 | 21:44 |
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| ttx | 17 tracked blueprints, which is more than you delivered in h2 | 21:44 |
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| ttx | You might want to push some of these "Medium" to "High" or "Low" to help prioritizing the review effort, same suggestion than for russellb | 21:44 |
| jgriffith | Yeah, but this time we're going to hit them | 21:44 |
| jgriffith | I'll comb through next week | 21:44 |
| ttx | bare-metal-volumes and cinder-nfs-driver-qos need an assignee | 21:44 |
| jgriffith | most are in progress pushes from H2 | 21:44 |
| ttx | (you should require an assignee to be set before giving a blueprint a priority) | 21:44 |
| jgriffith | those will likely be dropped due to lack of interest | 21:45 |
| ttx | cinder-volume-driver-optional-iscsi-support needs to be triaged too | 21:45 |
| jgriffith | but I need to give folks a chance to speak up tomorrow | 21:45 |
| ttx | sounds good | 21:45 |
| ttx | finally, db-cleanup (Medium) depends on db-archiving (Low) ? | 21:45 |
| jgriffith | quite frankly that whole thing is a bit of a mess | 21:45 |
| ttx | maybe adjust prio or remove link if it doesn't make sense | 21:45 |
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| ttx | db-cleanup might be an "ongoing" task | 21:46 |
| jgriffith | I'll adjust, but I'm also not convinced any longer on the whole thing | 21:46 |
| ttx | unless it has clear objectives :) | 21:46 |
| jgriffith | good point | 21:46 |
| ttx | jgriffith: we have one Nova blueprint blocked on https://review.openstack.org/#/c/30974/ so please give that one some review priority | 21:46 |
| jgriffith | I have reviewed | 21:46 |
| ttx | jgriffith: anything on your mind ? apart from horses breaking out of the barn ? | 21:47 |
| jgriffith | haha | 21:47 |
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| jgriffith | I'm concerened about encryption and db stuff | 21:47 |
| jgriffith | also the quota stuff | 21:47 |
| jgriffith | that merged into oslo before merging in Cinder or noava | 21:47 |
| jgriffith | nova | 21:47 |
| jgriffith | which seems backwards | 21:47 |
| jgriffith | other than that | 21:47 |
| jgriffith | nothing really | 21:48 |
| ttx | once the code is separated, it doesn't sound backward to implement improvements in oslo and sync them back | 21:48 |
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| ttx | Questions on Cinder ? | 21:48 |
| jgriffith | sure, if the code works | 21:48 |
| jgriffith | anyway... | 21:48 |
| ttx | jgriffith: indeed | 21:48 |
| ttx | #topic Heat status | 21:48 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Heat status (Meeting topic: project)" | 21:48 | |
| ttx | shardy: o/ | 21:49 |
| shardy | o/ | 21:49 |
| ttx | #link https://launchpad.net/heat/+milestone/havana-3 | 21:49 |
| shardy | I know I need to start bumping (a lot) of stuff | 21:49 |
| * ttx refreshes | 21:49 | |
| ttx | 31 tracked blueprints, while you implemented 8 during h1 and 8 during h2 | 21:49 |
| ttx | That no longer qualifies as optimism, it's pure madness :) | 21:49 |
| shardy | Not been ready to burst new-contributors bubbles just yet, but yeah | 21:49 |
| hub_cap | heh | 21:49 |
| ttx | You definitely need to more liberally use the "Low" priority to designate stuff that "may" make it | 21:49 |
| shardy | to be fair, a lot of stuff has been carried over, specifically the HOT functionality | 21:50 |
| ttx | That will help in communicating which features are the most likely to land to the rest of the world | 21:50 |
| shardy | which is all starting to come together, combined with the watch-ceilometer stuff | 21:50 |
| ttx | Because it's a quite unlikely those 30 will make it, and I prefer to be pleasantly surpised than doing bulk deferrals on feature freeze day | 21:50 |
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| shardy | ttx: agree, I'll start getting it into shape after discussions at our meeting tomorrow | 21:50 |
| ttx | You also have a few waiting to have a priority set: | 21:50 |
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| ttx | software-configuration-provider, update-stack-new-resource-state, heat-multicloud, oslo-db-support | 21:50 |
| shardy | ttx: that is deliberate - those appeared while I was on holiday and I need to discuss whether they just get bumped immediately | 21:51 |
| ttx | If you push things to "Low" they will disappear from my radar and i'll stop complaining about crazy goals :) | 21:51 |
| ttx | shardy: anything else you want to raise ? | 21:51 |
| * shardy sets everything to low | 21:51 | |
| shardy | ;) | 21:51 |
| ttx | that would be cheating. | 21:52 |
| shardy | no, not atm, will try to get things more realistic for next week :) | 21:52 |
| ttx | great! | 21:52 |
| ttx | Questions about Heat ? | 21:52 |
| shardy | seem to have herded the cats into a corner atm ;) | 21:52 |
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| ttx | #topic Horizon status | 21:52 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Horizon status (Meeting topic: project)" | 21:52 | |
| ttx | gabrielhurley: feeling better ? | 21:52 |
| gabrielhurley | somewhat | 21:53 |
| ttx | #link https://launchpad.net/horizon/+milestone/havana-3 | 21:53 |
| ttx | 16 tracked blueprints while you got 7 implemented in h2 (and 8 in h1) | 21:53 |
| ttx | So that's pretty optimistic... though you have about half of them implemented or in review already | 21:53 |
| gabrielhurley | yeah. I expect some will slip | 21:53 |
| gabrielhurley | there's a lot with priority "low" | 21:53 |
| ttx | So you might make it if you do a big review push early on | 21:53 |
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| gabrielhurley | certainly possible | 21:53 |
| gabrielhurley | but probably optimistic | 21:54 |
| gabrielhurley | I will refine as we go | 21:54 |
| ttx | Has work started on https://blueprints.launchpad.net/horizon/+spec/rbac ? | 21:54 |
| gabrielhurley | david-lyle has it in his head. he may have started code, but he's generally on it. | 21:54 |
| ttx | ok | 21:54 |
| ttx | gabrielhurley: some will slip, but ideally those who slip should be Low ones :) | 21:55 |
| gabrielhurley | that's the goal | 21:55 |
| gabrielhurley | :-) | 21:55 |
| ttx | that's what the roadmap is about: setting expectations as good as we can | 21:55 |
| ttx | gabrielhurley: anything you wanted to mention ? | 21:55 |
| gabrielhurley | not off the top of my head | 21:55 |
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| ttx | Questions on Horizon ? | 21:55 |
| ttx | Looks like we don't have henrynash, who was supposed to replace dolphm this week | 21:56 |
| ttx | anyone else feeling like defending keystone ? | 21:56 |
| ttx | ok, short update for the record | 21:57 |
| ttx | #topic Keystone status | 21:57 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Keystone status (Meeting topic: project)" | 21:57 | |
| ttx | 6 tracked blueprints in havana-3, which is reasonable | 21:57 |
| ttx | endpoint-filtering needs an assignee (or be removed from havana-3) | 21:57 |
| ttx | #topic Incubated projects | 21:58 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Incubated projects (Meeting topic: project)" | 21:58 | |
| ttx | hub_cap, devananda: news ? | 21:58 |
| * NobodyCam for devananda "we are still working on it. no real news yet" | 21:58 | |
| ttx | heh | 21:58 |
| hub_cap | heyo | 21:58 |
| ttx | hub_cap: how is it going ? | 21:58 |
| hub_cap | no real news. ive got the rpm integration almost done as a POC | 21:58 |
| hub_cap | a guy from mirantis and someone else both offered to finish it up | 21:59 |
| hub_cap | so we shoudl be able to run on ubuntu or fedora images now | 21:59 |
| hub_cap | well, once the reviews land ;) | 21:59 |
| ttx | "Impl Cinder Volume extend for resize volume" is marked essential for your havana release, is it really essential ? As in "won't release without it" ? | 21:59 |
| hub_cap | and heat integration is next | 21:59 |
| hub_cap | well ttx, our cli tool and api already have it | 21:59 |
| hub_cap | and we impl'd it internally at rax, FAIL | 22:00 |
| ttx | ok. Assigning someone to that BP is probably a good idea then :) | 22:00 |
| hub_cap | and haomaiwang said he wants to do it i believe | 22:00 |
| ttx | ok, time is up, anything else you wanted to mention ? | 22:00 |
| hub_cap | ill make sure its assigned this wk | 22:00 |
| * hub_cap hugs everyone | 22:00 | |
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| hub_cap | that is all | 22:00 |
| ttx | #endmeeting | 22:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 22:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Jul 30 22:00:37 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 22:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/project/2013/project.2013-07-30-21.02.html | 22:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/project/2013/project.2013-07-30-21.02.txt | 22:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/project/2013/project.2013-07-30-21.02.log.html | 22:00 |
| ttx | Thanks everyone! | 22:00 |
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| med_ | t t x i s a w e l l o i l e d m a c h i n e. | 22:01 |
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| gabrielhurley | #startmeeting horizon | 22:04 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Jul 30 22:04:02 2013 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is gabrielhurley. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 22:04 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 22:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: horizon)" | 22:04 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'horizon' | 22:04 |
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| gabrielhurley | hello happy horizoneers | 22:04 |
| david-lyle | Hello | 22:04 |
| jcoufal | hey everybody, hey gabrielhurley | 22:04 |
| timductive | Hello! | 22:04 |
| jpich | Hello | 22:04 |
| lcheng | hello | 22:04 |
| gabrielhurley | I'm thinking this can maybe be a short meeting. I have relatively little to say, but I'll stick around if y'all have topics. | 22:04 |
| gabrielhurley | I'll take care of the usual business real fast | 22:05 |
| gabrielhurley | #topic overview | 22:05 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "overview (Meeting topic: horizon)" | 22:05 | |
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| gabrielhurley | Looks like progress is going on track so far for where we're at in the cycle. | 22:05 |
| gabrielhurley | Ideally we'd see preliminary code for all the big stuff by two weeks from now. That would leave lots of time for review and polish. | 22:06 |
| gabrielhurley | I'll make sure to spend some time on my blueprints before then. | 22:06 |
| gabrielhurley | I also did some triage on bugs and blueprints today just to make sure everything's in order. Nothing new or startling to report. All's well. | 22:06 |
| gabrielhurley | #topic blueprints | 22:06 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "blueprints (Meeting topic: horizon)" | 22:06 | |
| gabrielhurley | me... nothing to report. who else would like to go? | 22:06 |
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| gabrielhurley | david-lyle, lcheng, jpich, timductive, etc...? | 22:07 |
| jcoufal | As for table inline editation BP | 22:07 |
| timductive | Heat Topology, is up in code review but I haven't had much time to figure out why Jenkins keeps failing, looks like a bug maybe | 22:07 |
| david-lyle | starting rbac, not very far yet, but I'll try to have a pass at it in a week or two | 22:07 |
| absubram | Cisco N1K dashboard - I'm just doing some final testing on mine before getting it ready for review | 22:08 |
| jcoufal | After various dicussions (thanks for feedback to all) I delivered final design for it | 22:08 |
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| jcoufal | And the development on that will (re-)start in next few days | 22:09 |
| gabrielhurley | jcoufal: yep, I saw your posts to the ML today but haven't read and absorbed yet | 22:09 |
| gabrielhurley | everyone else, that all sounds very reasonabe | 22:09 |
| gabrielhurley | reasonable, even | 22:09 |
| lcheng | I've been working on the role assignment to groups. https://blueprints.launchpad.net/horizon/+spec/group-domain-role-assignment Split the bp into two, to tackle project and domain role assignment separately. Working on the project role assignment now. | 22:09 |
| timductive | ;) | 22:09 |
| jcoufal | gabrielhurley: yeah, in ML are UX discussion oriented things, will talk about them later | 22:10 |
| gabrielhurley | lcheng: I saw that review this morning. it was bigger than I expected so I wanna pull it down and spend a little time with it, but at a glance it looked good | 22:10 |
| lcheng | I've realized that I could re-use the JS and template from the Project-User membership step. | 22:10 |
| lcheng | But the would require some time making the JS and template more flexible. | 22:10 |
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| gabrielhurley | it might be worth it, given that we still have time and that I assume you'd reuse it again on the domain role BP | 22:11 |
| lcheng | gabrielhurley: what's your thought on making changes on the JS/template as part of this bp? | 22:11 |
| jpich | lcheng: We're also reusing it for the security group edit on the instances page, for reference | 22:11 |
| gabrielhurley | I'd rather see the refactor to make it usable. the more generic that code gets the better | 22:12 |
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| lcheng | jpich: Thanks for the heads-up. I'll make sure it still works after the refactoring. | 22:12 |
| lcheng | Anywhere else it is used? | 22:12 |
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| jpich | lcheng: I don't believe so. I had to move workflow JS around a bit recently and that's the only 2 places I saw it | 22:12 |
| kspear | lcheng: some of the code is used for a networking component, can't remember which | 22:13 |
| lcheng | kspear: okay, I'll check that out. | 22:13 |
| gabrielhurley | cool cool | 22:14 |
| jpich | kspear, lcheng: Probably the NIC selection on the create instance workflow I reckon, though it should be separate now | 22:14 |
| gabrielhurley | I think that's separate offhand | 22:14 |
| gabrielhurley | 'cuz that has all the ordering code, etc. | 22:14 |
| kspear | jpich: ah right, good to know | 22:14 |
| gabrielhurley | anybody else on blueprints or should I open it up for general discussion? | 22:15 |
| * kspear has been meaning to fix the js/template naming for a while now | 22:15 | |
| gabrielhurley | #topic open discussion | 22:16 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: horizon)" | 22:16 | |
| gabrielhurley | who wants the floor? | 22:16 |
| lcheng | gabrielhurley: do you have update on the release of django_openstack_auth? :-) | 22:16 |
| gabrielhurley | oh damn. | 22:17 |
| gabrielhurley | I totally forgot about that | 22:17 |
| gabrielhurley | thank you for asking. | 22:17 |
| gabrielhurley | I will look into that today | 22:17 |
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| jcoufal | If I can take small place... | 22:18 |
| jcoufal | UX discussions tool | 22:18 |
| jcoufal | there was no more suggestions for other tools, so I did some more research and posted 2 more tools | 22:18 |
| lcheng | gabrielhurley: thanks | 22:18 |
| jcoufal | based on discussion with Thierry I found out that one of he best candidates might be same tool as aks.openstack.org | 22:19 |
| jcoufal | *ask | 22:19 |
| gabrielhurley | ah, an answerbot/stackoverflow clone. not a bad idea. | 22:19 |
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| gabrielhurley | could we even piggyback on ask.openstack.org and use a tag/category/section of some sort? | 22:20 |
| gabrielhurley | avoid setting up another tool entirely? | 22:20 |
| jcoufal | yeah, something similar, from what I have discovered it matches the best | 22:20 |
| jcoufal | I was thinking about that | 22:20 |
| jcoufal | it might work | 22:20 |
| jcoufal | however what I really love is having multiple labels | 22:20 |
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| jpich | From my xp with ask.openstack.org it makes conversation difficult if you want to iterate on a concept | 22:21 |
| jpich | Commenting on an answer is limited to 200 characters or something and can't be formatted (or images added) | 22:21 |
| gabrielhurley | true, it does keep comments on a particular answer short... | 22:21 |
| jpich | if you make a new reply based on a previous answer, it gets a bit lost as answers move up and down | 22:21 |
| jcoufal | jpich: but can't the discussion happen in answers and comments used really like short 'additions'? | 22:22 |
| jcoufal | just wondering | 22:22 |
| jpich | I like the rest and the email made good points, but there are downsides, it's not great for conversations, more for "this is THE answer" | 22:22 |
| jpich | jcoufal: Sure, but an answer can only reply to the question, not to each other | 22:22 |
| gabrielhurley | though it is nice to be able to capture *the* answer once consensus is reached | 22:22 |
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| jpich | so if you want to add additional informational you have to edit your initial question or answer | 22:23 |
| gabrielhurley | I don't see that as being so bad | 22:23 |
| gabrielhurley | I'm not convinced the preservation of all the history is crucial | 22:23 |
| jcoufal | neither do I | 22:23 |
| jcoufal | but good point, jpich | 22:23 |
| jpich | Fair enough :) | 22:23 |
| jcoufal | I didn't think of this before | 22:23 |
| gabrielhurley | If we can collectively arrive at a reasonably documented consensus that's pretty good. not perft, but pretty good. | 22:23 |
| gabrielhurley | *perfect | 22:24 |
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| jcoufal | gabrielhurley: I will wait for Thierry's answer and if it is positive, I will wrap up everything in ML | 22:24 |
| gabrielhurley | yeah, other opinions are welcome, but this may be the best idea I've heard so far if we're willing to accept that our criteria is more about successful outcomes than the ability for anyone to go revisit the process of how we got there | 22:25 |
| jcoufal | gabrielhurley: we can still make voting happen between discourse and ask.openstack.org what others prefer in the end | 22:26 |
| jcoufal | gabrielhurley: sounds good | 22:26 |
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| gabrielhurley | great | 22:26 |
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| gabrielhurley | other topics? | 22:27 |
| kspear | gabrielhurley: could you ask vishy/russellb nicely for a novaclient release? we have a couple of patches up that need a newer version | 22:27 |
| absubram | gabrielhurley: quick question about the icehouse summit.. do we already have a list of topics/discussions for the design summit? | 22:27 |
| gabrielhurley | k. will do. | 22:27 |
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| gabrielhurley | absubram: nope | 22:27 |
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| gabrielhurley | the call for proposals for the design summit will open fairly soon | 22:27 |
| kspear | gabrielhurley: thanks | 22:28 |
| gabrielhurley | I'll announce it in this meeting plus it'll obviously go out from Thierry on the ML, etc. when it happens | 22:28 |
| russellb | kspear: ack, i haven't done one in forever. can you email me about it so it's in my queue? | 22:28 |
| absubram | oh ok.. what's tomorrows deadline then? that's different? | 22:28 |
| gabrielhurley | absubram: I believe that's for the conference portion | 22:28 |
| kspear | russellb: will do. noticed the last tag was quite old :) | 22:28 |
| gabrielhurley | kspear: russellb: now I don't have to do anything! yay! | 22:29 |
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| kspear | gabrielhurley: the system works! | 22:29 |
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| gabrielhurley | I do still have to cut a django_openstack_auth release for lcheng though.. | 22:30 |
| russellb | i lurk in here for things like this, heh | 22:30 |
| jpich | gabrielhurley: Any update/thing I can help with for https://bugs.launchpad.net/horizon/+bug/1182011? | 22:30 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1182011 in horizon "djangojs.po not available on Transifex" [High,Confirmed] | 22:30 |
| gabrielhurley | jpich: do you have admin access on transifex? if not it shouldn't be hard to get it so you could add the "resource" as transifex calls it | 22:31 |
| jpich | gabrielhurley: I don't. I guess I need to talk to Daisy? | 22:31 |
| gabrielhurley | if you tell me what you transifex account name is I can probably add you | 22:31 |
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| jpich | Probably jpichon *checks* | 22:32 |
| jpich | Is there any trickstiness associated with adding a new file? | 22:32 |
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| gabrielhurley | oh, probably. but I haven't done it in ages | 22:33 |
| gabrielhurley | your guess is as good as mine | 22:33 |
| jpich | Yep, jpichon | 22:33 |
| jpich | Fair enough, I'll poke | 22:33 |
| kspear | we have some software engineering grad student groups that may be interested in working on openstack for an 11-week course project. if anyone has ideas for blueprints that might fit that schedule please suggest them. horizon or elsewhere | 22:33 |
| gabrielhurley | jpich: you are added as a maintainer on the Horizon transifex | 22:34 |
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| jpich | kspear: Cool! Is that 11 weeks full time or in addition to other coursework? | 22:34 |
| gabrielhurley | kspear: nice! | 22:34 |
| jpich | gabrielhurley: Thanks | 22:34 |
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| kspear | jpich: in addition to other coursework | 22:35 |
| kspear | the main thing i'm looking for is some flexibility in design and a decent block of work | 22:35 |
| jpich | Ok | 22:35 |
| kspear | and low spin-up | 22:35 |
| kspear | nothing in the horizon list currently jumps out at me | 22:35 |
| jcoufal | kspear: great, how experienced are they? what type of work would you expect? | 22:36 |
| gabrielhurley | kspear: I'll have a look to. could you email me so I have it in my todo list? | 22:36 |
| jpich | inbox as todo list :) | 22:36 |
| kspear | gabrielhurley: sure | 22:36 |
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| gabrielhurley | sad but true. thanks. | 22:37 |
| kspear | jcoufal: i still need to talk to the supervisor to get more detail. fairly experienced though i would think | 22:37 |
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| jcoufal | kspear: ok, could you include me in the list of receivers of further information as well, please :) | 22:38 |
| kspear | gabrielhurley: i'll email myself to remind me to email you and russellb | 22:38 |
| jpich | lol :P | 22:38 |
| kspear | jcoufal: will do | 22:38 |
| david-lyle | ha | 22:38 |
| jcoufal | lol | 22:38 |
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| gabrielhurley | sweet! | 22:39 |
| jpich | FYI, there are now a couple of basic horizon tests in the tempest gate so hopefully stuff like https://bugs.launchpad.net/horizon/+bug/1203001 will be caught before it breaks us from now on | 22:39 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1203001 in python-novaclient "TypeError: __init__() got an unexpected keyword argument 'project_id'" [Undecided,Fix committed] | 22:39 |
| gabrielhurley | yep, that's excellent | 22:39 |
| david-lyle | great! | 22:39 |
| kspear | jpich: nice | 22:40 |
| jcoufal | jpich: sweet | 22:41 |
| gabrielhurley | great. this has been a very productive meeting. I'll let you folks in other timezones get back to your normal lives. thanks for everything! | 22:42 |
| gabrielhurley | #endmeeting | 22:42 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 22:42 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Jul 30 22:42:28 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 22:42 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/horizon/2013/horizon.2013-07-30-22.04.html | 22:42 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/horizon/2013/horizon.2013-07-30-22.04.txt | 22:42 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/horizon/2013/horizon.2013-07-30-22.04.log.html | 22:42 |
| jpich | Thanks | 22:42 |
| david-lyle | Thanks | 22:42 |
| jcoufal | Thanks, see you later all | 22:43 |
| kspear | bye all | 22:43 |
| absubram | thanks.. later! | 22:43 |
| kspear | ha, now i get to go to work | 22:43 |
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