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| johnthetubaguy | #startmeeting XenAPI | 15:00 |
|---|---|---|
| openstack | Meeting started Wed May 29 15:00:13 2013 UTC. The chair is johnthetubaguy. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 15:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 15:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: XenAPI)" | 15:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'xenapi' | 15:00 |
| johnthetubaguy | hi | 15:00 |
| johnthetubaguy | hands up for the XenAPI meeting? | 15:00 |
| BobBall | o/ | 15:01 |
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| BobBall | and matelakat too :) | 15:01 |
| matelakat | hi | 15:01 |
| johnthetubaguy | cool, hello | 15:02 |
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| johnthetubaguy | #topic actions from last meeting | 15:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "actions from last meeting (Meeting topic: XenAPI)" | 15:02 | |
| johnthetubaguy | matelakat: how did that documenting go? | 15:02 |
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| matelakat | As I said, it is a low priority, haven't even touched it. | 15:03 |
| BobBall | *grin* | 15:03 |
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| johnthetubaguy | OK, lets leave that off the actions for next week, its got boring | 15:03 |
| matelakat | focusing on quantum, and saying hello to smokestack | 15:03 |
| johnthetubaguy | #topic blueprints | 15:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "blueprints (Meeting topic: XenAPI)" | 15:03 | |
| johnthetubaguy | so I have made progress with xenapi-server-log | 15:03 |
| johnthetubaguy | assuming someone configures the logging correctly | 15:04 |
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| johnthetubaguy | I can now read the logs | 15:04 |
| BobBall | you mean with the xenstore key? | 15:04 |
| johnthetubaguy | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/+spec/xenapi-server-log | 15:04 |
| johnthetubaguy | well, its needs more than the xenstore key, but yes | 15:04 |
| johnthetubaguy | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/30301/ | 15:05 |
| BobBall | Ah - this was WIP | 15:05 |
| johnthetubaguy | got a few other bits till its finished, but the core proof of concept seems OK | 15:05 |
| BobBall | is it still WIP? | 15:05 |
| BobBall | or are you raedy for someone to look at it? | 15:05 |
| johnthetubaguy | nope, its up for review | 15:05 |
| BobBall | okay cool | 15:05 |
| BobBall | I'll have a butchers :) | 15:05 |
| johnthetubaguy | cool | 15:05 |
| johnthetubaguy | its not that sophisticated, but its a step forward | 15:06 |
| johnthetubaguy | I think we need to worry about deleting old logs too | 15:06 |
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| johnthetubaguy | that probably shouldn't be the job of logrotate, but I can't quite decide | 15:06 |
| johnthetubaguy | anyhow, its baby steps forward | 15:06 |
| BobBall | sounds good to me | 15:07 |
| johnthetubaguy | so, next one I wanted to touch on was devstack refactor | 15:07 |
| johnthetubaguy | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/devstack/+spec/xenapi-devstack-cleanup | 15:07 |
| johnthetubaguy | matelakat: how is that going? | 15:07 |
| matelakat | At the moment a quantum patch is waiting, after that, I would like to push the network cleanup. | 15:08 |
| matelakat | We could discuss what we want in that. | 15:08 |
| matelakat | remove internal xapi interface | 15:08 |
| matelakat | sensible defaults | 15:08 |
| johnthetubaguy | yes, I had some people talking about that inside rax | 15:08 |
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| matelakat | Oh, is someone using that if? | 15:09 |
| johnthetubaguy | so, remove that guest install network thing, yes please | 15:09 |
| matelakat | guest install network? | 15:09 |
| johnthetubaguy | that internal xapi interface | 15:09 |
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| matelakat | I am not sure if we are speaking about the same stuff. | 15:09 |
| johnthetubaguy | it has many names | 15:09 |
| johnthetubaguy | current eth0 on bridge xapi | 15:09 |
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| matelakat | Another job would be to modify how the vm is built. | 15:09 |
| johnthetubaguy | lets just get the network decided I think | 15:10 |
| johnthetubaguy | first | 15:10 |
| matelakat | y | 15:10 |
| johnthetubaguy | so default config, what you thinking? | 15:10 |
| matelakat | But that will be another change. | 15:10 |
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| matelakat | Default config - let's talk about that | 15:10 |
| johnthetubaguy | I recon something like eth0 = management, eth1 = data, eth2 = public | 15:10 |
| johnthetubaguy | that is the domU | 15:10 |
| matelakat | Let's look at the doc. | 15:11 |
| johnthetubaguy | doc? | 15:11 |
| matelakat | my goal is to align devstack with the official docs | 15:11 |
| matelakat | you know, the diagram. | 15:11 |
| johnthetubaguy | we probably need to change that now though | 15:11 |
| BobBall | IOW make devstack as close to what we'd recommend people deploying | 15:11 |
| johnthetubaguy | anyways, let me find a link | 15:11 |
| matelakat | #link http://docs.openstack.org/grizzly/openstack-compute/install/apt/content/introduction-to-xen.html#xenapi-deployment-architecture | 15:11 |
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| johnthetubaguy | BobBall: yes, but it needs to be simple no change for devs | 15:12 |
| matelakat | what is IOW Bob? | 15:12 |
| johnthetubaguy | matelakat: cool that looks good | 15:12 |
| johnthetubaguy | I think managment network should be dhcp (i.e. home router) | 15:12 |
| matelakat | yes. | 15:12 |
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| johnthetubaguy | then the tenant and public can default to host local private networks? | 15:12 |
| BobBall | IOW = in other words | 15:13 |
| johnthetubaguy | obviously you could create VLANS, etc, if you wish to do multi box setup | 15:13 |
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| johnthetubaguy | does that sound like what you were thinking? | 15:13 |
| matelakat | I would leave it as an exercise for the user. | 15:13 |
| matelakat | I meant the VLAN and the physical game. | 15:14 |
| johnthetubaguy | erm, would be good to create the default host local networks auto-magically though? | 15:14 |
| BobBall | I agree - don't add complexity to devstack... we can get it to install on whateverthehostisrunning | 15:14 |
| BobBall | host-local sure, yes | 15:14 |
| johnthetubaguy | ah right, absolutaly, no VLAN creation | 15:14 |
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| matelakat | The change that has been accepted is already doing this host local stuff. | 15:14 |
| johnthetubaguy | the other Ubuntu installer stuff, that should probably default to eth0 dhcp to match the above | 15:15 |
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| matelakat | y | 15:15 |
| johnthetubaguy | then autodetect the management ip address on eth0 | 15:15 |
| matelakat | y | 15:15 |
| johnthetubaguy | I would just assume a default install of XS I guess (plus XD optimisations / EXT SR) | 15:15 |
| matelakat | As documented. | 15:15 |
| BobBall | idd | 15:15 |
| johnthetubaguy | sounds like we agree on the network defaults? | 15:15 |
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| matelakat | Static IP could be another job. | 15:16 |
| johnthetubaguy | what you mean? make it work with a static IP? | 15:16 |
| matelakat | for now, let's assume dhcp on MGT network. | 15:16 |
| johnthetubaguy | +1 for dhcp for now | 15:16 |
| matelakat | yes, make it work without DHCP | 15:16 |
| matelakat | Okay, so that's an agreement. | 15:17 |
| johnthetubaguy | yeah, lets ignore that for now, we need to worry about proxies too in the complex case | 15:17 |
| matelakat | Although the quantum case would need another diagram. | 15:17 |
| johnthetubaguy | yes, that is worth doing | 15:17 |
| johnthetubaguy | #action: need new doc diagram for quantum setup | 15:17 |
| johnthetubaguy | matelakat: you mentioned ubuntu install changes? | 15:17 |
| matelakat | I would like to see the snapshotted VM not connected to any networks. | 15:18 |
| matelakat | Other than that: always update boot parameters | 15:18 |
| johnthetubaguy | in what sense? for the install? | 15:18 |
| matelakat | I meant kernel parameters. | 15:18 |
| matelakat | At the moment, we are creating a VM with 4 interfaces, and preseed that VM | 15:19 |
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| matelakat | And than snap it. | 15:19 |
| johnthetubaguy | OFFLINE=true gets close to that in localrc in the domU I think, for refresh | 15:19 |
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| matelakat | OFFLINE=true???? | 15:19 |
| johnthetubaguy | ah, hang on, not sure I get what you mean | 15:19 |
| johnthetubaguy | OFFLINE=true stops the git pulls and apt-get updates, etc | 15:19 |
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| BobBall | I've not seen that one before :P | 15:19 |
| BobBall | ahhh | 15:19 |
| matelakat | create a VM with one interface, preseed it -> remove the interface from the VM -> snap it | 15:20 |
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| matelakat | Goal: You can change the network configuration without cleaning up the templates. | 15:20 |
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| matelakat | Makes sense? | 15:21 |
| johnthetubaguy | ah, yes, good point | 15:21 |
| BobBall | very much to me too | 15:21 |
| matelakat | Okay. | 15:21 |
| johnthetubaguy | that would really help the retry loop | 15:21 |
| matelakat | I am not sure, if it is all one change. | 15:21 |
| matelakat | We'll see how big it is. | 15:21 |
| johnthetubaguy | I lost intrested half way through adding those snapshots after getting the test times down to something I could bare | 15:21 |
| johnthetubaguy | cool, so that sounds like pleanty | 15:22 |
| johnthetubaguy | and that should leave us in a good place for Havana I guess? | 15:22 |
| matelakat | Now, file some actions please, I like to see the bot doing its job. | 15:22 |
| johnthetubaguy | lol, probably best to update the blueprint though? | 15:22 |
| matelakat | sure. | 15:23 |
| matelakat | Let me check my trello board. | 15:23 |
| matelakat | Oh, separate volume for cinder in devstack | 15:23 |
| johnthetubaguy | I just updated the BP | 15:23 |
| johnthetubaguy | #link √ | 15:24 |
| matelakat | Okay. | 15:24 |
| johnthetubaguy | oops | 15:24 |
| johnthetubaguy | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/devstack/+spec/xenapi-devstack-cleanup | 15:24 |
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| matelakat | So, one more thing that I have is: separate vhd for cinder volumes | 15:24 |
| johnthetubaguy | Work items: | 15:24 |
| johnthetubaguy | Get rid of VLAN configuration: DONE | 15:24 |
| johnthetubaguy | Add proxy settings for Ubuntu install: DONE | 15:24 |
| johnthetubaguy | Better network defaults: TODO | 15:24 |
| johnthetubaguy | Reconfigure networking without Ubuntu VM re-install: TODO | 15:24 |
| johnthetubaguy | Separate Hypervisor setup: TODO | 15:24 |
| johnthetubaguy | matelakat: sure, but is that critical? | 15:24 |
| matelakat | I would like to see that, because with the loopback device, you get kernel lockups. | 15:25 |
| johnthetubaguy | ah, yes, that old fella | 15:25 |
| matelakat | Which is not really a good experiment. | 15:25 |
| matelakat | s/experiment/experience/g | 15:25 |
| johnthetubaguy | cool | 15:26 |
| johnthetubaguy | so lets move on to Quantum | 15:26 |
| matelakat | Okay, move. | 15:26 |
| johnthetubaguy | I saw L2 got into master | 15:26 |
| johnthetubaguy | hows DHCP? | 15:26 |
| matelakat | That's really good thing. | 15:26 |
| johnthetubaguy | :) | 15:26 |
| matelakat | We have issues with Quantum with oslo.config | 15:27 |
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| matelakat | That was a separate issue changing [OVS] -> [ovs] | 15:27 |
| johnthetubaguy | oh, thats not specific to XenAPI, but yes | 15:27 |
| matelakat | So that was sort of blocking me | 15:27 |
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| matelakat | Apart from that, a ci job is here: | 15:28 |
| matelakat | #link https://github.com/citrix-openstack/qa/blob/master/xenserver-quantum-devstack.sh | 15:28 |
| BobBall | Also blocked by a stupid commit I made :) | 15:28 |
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| matelakat | I didn't say that. | 15:28 |
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| BobBall | oh | 15:29 |
| BobBall | but you thought it! :D | 15:29 |
| matelakat | Bob's change just highlighted some other issues, but he likes to be punished by himself. | 15:29 |
| johnthetubaguy | lol | 15:29 |
| BobBall | Just to fill John in on the details... | 15:29 |
| johnthetubaguy | OK, so you got DHCP working? | 15:29 |
| matelakat | define "working" | 15:29 |
| johnthetubaguy | instances get IP addresses from DHCP? | 15:30 |
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| matelakat | y | 15:30 |
| johnthetubaguy | cool, whats broken? | 15:30 |
| BobBall | devstack had some libvirt specific variables which were used in common code - I removed the libvirt specific variables and apparently committed it without testing it (although I know I tested something!) - so the upshot is that devstack is currently broken for XenServer and all non-libvirt hypervisors | 15:30 |
| johnthetubaguy | oops | 15:30 |
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| matelakat | #link https://review.openstack.org/30703 | 15:30 |
| johnthetubaguy | I will not update my repo today then... | 15:30 |
| matelakat | Update it. | 15:31 |
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| johnthetubaguy | so, I hear OVS plugin is getting deprecated | 15:32 |
| johnthetubaguy | do we know what the plan is getting XCP working with the new one? | 15:32 |
| matelakat | Which is the new one? | 15:32 |
| matelakat | I need some details. | 15:32 |
| matelakat | Was it on the ML ? | 15:33 |
| johnthetubaguy | it was hinted to on the ML | 15:33 |
| johnthetubaguy | let me check | 15:33 |
| matelakat | I wouldn't care about the future plans. | 15:33 |
| johnthetubaguy | its called ML2 | 15:33 |
| matelakat | At the moment. | 15:33 |
| matelakat | ML2 is my second revision - It's not even born. | 15:34 |
| johnthetubaguy | "However - do you have any idea about how this kind of feature will play with ML2 and deprecation of OVS plugin?" | 15:34 |
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| johnthetubaguy | was in a thread on VXLAN | 15:34 |
| matelakat | Ah, how good is that. So that's why quantum folks accepted the L2 patch. | 15:34 |
| matelakat | :-) | 15:35 |
| johnthetubaguy | https://blueprints.launchpad.net/quantum/+spec/modular-l2 | 15:35 |
| BobBall | haha | 15:35 |
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| matelakat | Let's keep an eye on it. | 15:36 |
| matelakat | Thanks John. | 15:36 |
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| matelakat | I need some time to parse that change. | 15:36 |
| johnthetubaguy | well seems like its the new thing, I would ask salvatore | 15:36 |
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| johnthetubaguy | it may require almost zero changes | 15:37 |
| johnthetubaguy | anyways | 15:37 |
| johnthetubaguy | #topic Docs | 15:37 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Docs (Meeting topic: XenAPI)" | 15:37 | |
| johnthetubaguy | any updated for Xen Doc Day yesterday? | 15:37 |
| johnthetubaguy | nothing from me | 15:37 |
| BobBall | not from me either | 15:38 |
| matelakat | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/20105/9/quantum/plugins/ml2/README: It currently works with the existing openvswitch, linuxbridge, and hyperv L2 | 15:38 |
| BobBall | but what would you hope we could do for the xen doc day? | 15:38 |
| matelakat | .. agents | 15:38 |
| matelakat | So this ML2 seems to be higher up in the hierarchy. | 15:38 |
| BobBall | so ML2 is on top of OVS? | 15:38 |
| johnthetubaguy | ah, I keep meaning to join in that effort and work on XS OS docs | 15:38 |
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| johnthetubaguy | I think ML2 is the new things to configure OVS rather than the current OVS plugin | 15:39 |
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| matelakat | Okay, so as long as Agent stays, we don't care. | 15:39 |
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| johnthetubaguy | hopefully | 15:40 |
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| johnthetubaguy | #topic Bugs and QA | 15:41 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Bugs and QA (Meeting topic: XenAPI)" | 15:41 | |
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| matelakat | pass | 15:41 |
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| BobBall | So the biggest one is the devstack bug | 15:41 |
| matelakat | Ah QA | 15:42 |
| matelakat | I am trying to reproduce the Smoke things | 15:42 |
| matelakat | And I am at around 80% | 15:42 |
| matelakat | namely here: #link https://github.com/dprince/firestack/blob/master/example_xen.bash#L71 | 15:43 |
| matelakat | Who's gonna pick up the devstack one? | 15:43 |
| BobBall | which devstack one? | 15:44 |
| BobBall | the one that I introduced? | 15:44 |
| matelakat | I would like to get quantum and smoke done this week. | 15:44 |
| matelakat | Yes, let's call it Bob-Bug-2013/00000001 | 15:44 |
| BobBall | Wow - that's kind. suggesting that it's the first bug. | 15:44 |
| matelakat | So that we have enough digits for the year. | 15:44 |
| BobBall | My issue with me looking at it is the next few days are likely to be busy | 15:45 |
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| BobBall | but I can say I'll take it | 15:45 |
| BobBall | I'll see what I can do tomorrow | 15:45 |
| matelakat | We can try to do some pair programming | 15:45 |
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| BobBall | Sure - although I might fix it tomorrow morning before you get in the office ;) | 15:46 |
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| johnthetubaguy | well, that sounds good | 15:46 |
| matelakat | suggests Bob-Bug-2013/00000002 | 15:46 |
| johnthetubaguy | how is smokestack then? | 15:46 |
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| matelakat | Let's say environment setup phase. | 15:47 |
| matelakat | learning - from my side. | 15:48 |
| matelakat | All we need is to be able to fix any issues in puppet manifests at the moment. | 15:48 |
| matelakat | And I would say we are not really far from being able to do that (hack -> test) cycle. | 15:49 |
| matelakat | As I said, I would like to get it done this week. | 15:49 |
| matelakat | Any other Q? | 15:49 |
| BobBall | nope | 15:50 |
| BobBall | are we done with the meeting now? | 15:51 |
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| matelakat | John has disappeared. | 15:51 |
| matelakat | What a chairman! | 15:51 |
| BobBall | and now we can't stop the meeting | 15:51 |
| matelakat | Oh Bob | 15:52 |
| BobBall | that means we have to keep going until John is back | 15:52 |
| matelakat | It seems, that we have to stay here till the end of the time. | 15:52 |
| johnthetubaguy | he is here | 15:52 |
| johnthetubaguy | sorry | 15:52 |
| matelakat | Oh. | 15:52 |
| johnthetubaguy | one more thing | 15:52 |
| johnthetubaguy | #topic open discussion | 15:52 |
| matelakat | Good old SJ. | 15:52 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: XenAPI)" | 15:52 | |
| johnthetubaguy | anything around diskimage-builder? | 15:53 |
| johnthetubaguy | anyone looking at that | 15:53 |
| matelakat | Not really. | 15:53 |
| BobBall | fraid not | 15:53 |
| johnthetubaguy | I noticed it was going for incubation / oslo inclusion | 15:53 |
| johnthetubaguy | OK | 15:53 |
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| johnthetubaguy | I guess it doesn't do our style VHD | 15:53 |
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| matelakat | What is the exact use-case for that? | 15:53 |
| zhiyan | hi, folks, how about https://etherpad.openstack.org/linked-template-image , any thoughts? | 15:54 |
| BobBall | I've gotta run - sorry guys - was expecting us to be done by now! Mate, will be back on later if you want to email me. | 15:54 |
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| johnthetubaguy | matelakat: not sure | 15:54 |
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| zhiyan | DuncanT: around? | 15:54 |
| matelakat | zhiyan, is it about XenAPI? | 15:55 |
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| johnthetubaguy | ok, so we are done with XenAPI I guess | 15:55 |
| zhiyan | matelakat: no, just about cinder requirement/dependency: Attaching a volume to a host | 15:55 |
| matelakat | johnthetubaguy: Is it some debootstrap thingie? | 15:56 |
| johnthetubaguy | sorry got distracted at the end | 15:56 |
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| johnthetubaguy | matelakat: yep | 15:56 |
| johnthetubaguy | I think its about bootstrapping OpenStack | 15:56 |
| DuncanT | zhiyan: Give it 5 minutes, we aren't due to start yet! | 15:56 |
| johnthetubaguy | so building images, and everything | 15:56 |
| matelakat | zhiyan: I guess cinder meeting is the next, within few minutes. | 15:56 |
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| johnthetubaguy | yup, we almost done here | 15:56 |
| johnthetubaguy | matelatat: any thing else? | 15:56 |
| zhiyan | DuncanT: oh, sorry, :) | 15:56 |
| matelakat | Okay, let's give the room to the cinder folks. | 15:56 |
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| johnthetubaguy | #endmeeting | 15:56 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meetings" | 15:56 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed May 29 15:56:55 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 15:56 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/xenapi/2013/xenapi.2013-05-29-15.00.html | 15:56 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/xenapi/2013/xenapi.2013-05-29-15.00.txt | 15:56 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/xenapi/2013/xenapi.2013-05-29-15.00.log.html | 15:57 |
| zhiyan | matelakat: haha, ok | 15:57 |
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| DuncanT | Cinder people about? | 16:00 |
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| winston-d | hi | 16:00 |
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| eharney | hello | 16:00 |
| zhiyan | DuncanT: zhiyan here | 16:00 |
| cian_ | hi | 16:00 |
| thingee | heey | 16:00 |
| jgallard | hello | 16:00 |
| DuncanT | #startmeeting cinder | 16:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed May 29 16:00:41 2013 UTC. The chair is DuncanT. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 16:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 16:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: cinder)" | 16:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'cinder' | 16:00 |
| xyang_ | hi | 16:00 |
| vincent_hou | hi | 16:00 |
| jsbryant | Hi all. Happy Wednesday! | 16:01 |
| DuncanT | So no jgriffith this week. 3 items on the agenda so far | 16:01 |
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| DuncanT | Update the wiki or PM or shout up for other items | 16:01 |
| DuncanT | #topic BUGSQUASH | 16:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "BUGSQUASH (Meeting topic: cinder)" | 16:01 | |
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| avishay | hi all | 16:02 |
| DuncanT | So we've a bug squash day scheduled tomorrow... just after the H1 branch was cut, but never mind | 16:02 |
| bswartz | hi | 16:02 |
| DuncanT | Anybody got any questions on that? | 16:02 |
| avishay | Yea we should have done it earlier, but we'll get a good start on H2 :) | 16:03 |
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| thingee | avishay: got some last minute stuff through thanks to winston-d | 16:03 |
| avishay | thingee: cool cool | 16:04 |
| thingee | nothing like last minute being a motivator | 16:04 |
| avishay | :) | 16:04 |
| DuncanT | I'll assume there are no questions then and look forward to the pretty graph plunging tomorrow | 16:04 |
| med_ | :) | 16:04 |
| avishay | :) | 16:04 |
| winston-d | :) | 16:04 |
| jungleboyj | :-) | 16:04 |
| thingee | ( ͡ಠ͜ʖ ͡ಠ) | 16:05 |
| DuncanT | #topic Blueprint dependencies and generic local attach | 16:05 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Blueprint dependencies and generic local attach (Meeting topic: cinder)" | 16:05 | |
| avishay | thingee: lol | 16:05 |
| eharney | i'm not sure what emotion that is... | 16:05 |
| med_ | now that's ascii art or utf-8 art | 16:05 |
| DuncanT | So zhiyan highlighted the fact that we have a bunch of blueprints that need some flavour of local attach, but that work hasn't been started yet | 16:05 |
| zhiyan | hi please take a look on https://etherpad.openstack.org/linked-template-image , the changes need cinder give some support, glance and nova need attach the volume to glance-api host or nova-compute host.. | 16:06 |
| jdurgin | are you really after 'locally attaching', or is that just a means to do I/O to the volume? | 16:07 |
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| avishay | jdurgin: i think the latter | 16:07 |
| winston-d | avishay: +1 | 16:07 |
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| zhiyan | eharney: just improve vm provisioning performance, for now we use 'linked' volume to prepare template image, in future, we can use that prepare vm's vdisk directly, such as clone to make cow... | 16:07 |
| avishay | connectivity issues worry me - cinder nodes may not have HBAs | 16:07 |
| avishay | same for glance nodes | 16:08 |
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| avishay | which is why i suggested VMs to do the copies but nobody liked that idea :) | 16:08 |
| kmartin | zhiyan: avishay the etherpad says for iscsi only | 16:08 |
| DuncanT | avishay: In this case the attach is happening on the compute node, just to the host OS rather than direct to a VM, if I understand the plan | 16:08 |
| zhiyan | kmartin: not just for iscsi, IMO, for all backend.. | 16:09 |
| zhiyan | DuncanT: yes, that is | 16:09 |
| avishay | DuncanT: so this isn't that attach "service" refactor thing? | 16:10 |
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| kmartin | zhiyan: ok then it would need fibre channel as well, I was reading line #84 of the etherpad | 16:10 |
| zhiyan | so i list somethings we need to have: 1-5 at blow part in https://etherpad.openstack.org/linked-template-image | 16:10 |
| DuncanT | The same attach would be done for a new 'cinder-ioworker' service in the case of backup, migration etc, which can be run on nodes with appropriate connectivity (including on compute nodes if desired) | 16:10 |
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| zhiyan | kmartin: yes, John tell me iscsi, AOE will be extracted, but not others... | 16:11 |
| winston-d | zhiyan: glance can already use block storage as back-end, Ceph is an good example. | 16:12 |
| DuncanT | I think brick on its own is not enough for this.... it will provide some useful parts but we need something more if we are going to do generic attach properly | 16:12 |
| avishay | DuncanT: agreed | 16:12 |
| zhiyan | wiston-d: yes, glance have Ceph store driver, but my plan is give a Cinder store driver to glance, then glance can use any type volume as an image from Cinder backend... | 16:13 |
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| zhiyan | DuncanT: yes +1 | 16:13 |
| avishay | DuncanT: if a deployer doesn't need to worry about connectivity from non-compute nodes, that's a win in my book | 16:13 |
| zhiyan | avishay: yes :) | 16:14 |
| DuncanT | avishay: In my model, the deployer has to run cinder-ioworker on some node(s) with connectivity. This need not be the same nodes that cinder-volume runs on, and can be a compute node if that works outt well with performance and connectivity constraints, or could be a dedicated node | 16:15 |
| winston-d | zhiyan: what you suggesting in this bp: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/glance/+spec/glance-cinder-driver is to use volumes created by Cinder as Glance back-end? | 16:15 |
| jdurgin | I think the abstraction just needs to change slightly to focus on I/O rather than attach/detach - those are implementation details | 16:15 |
| avishay | DuncanT: yup, sounds good | 16:15 |
| DuncanT | jdurgin: Looks like they plan on mounting the volume then throwing a cow layer over the mounted volume... | 16:16 |
| zhiyan | DuncanT: what's the different about 'cinder-ioworker' and 'cinder-agent'? | 16:16 |
| jdurgin | then backends like sheepdog and rbd can be supported (and as DuncanT mentioned, having a general I/O mechanism is useful for several other things as well) | 16:16 |
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| avishay | Who's signing up to do this? Does it replace this: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/cinder/+spec/cinder-refactor-attach ? | 16:17 |
| winston-d | zhiyan: cinder-ioworker is a dedicated machine has enough connectivity to various cinder back-ends. | 16:17 |
| zhiyan | winston-d:for now, i just try to get agreement with cinder team....IMO, as i said in the etherpad, "extract attach/detach code from nova directly but NOT waiting cinder project do that, I will extract attach/detach code independently just for cinder-store-driver for glance project, an later (after i landing down the driver for glance) if cinder like it, I'd like also contribute it to cinder." what's your thoughts? | 16:17 |
| DuncanT | zhiyan: ioworker is a cinder service that offloads long io jobs from the volume service | 16:17 |
| * markwash showed up | 16:18 | |
| bswartz | avishay: vish and jgriffith gave that talk jointly at the summit | 16:18 |
| DuncanT | zhiyan: cinder agent is moving attach/dettach code out of nova into some new cinder service or libbrary | 16:18 |
| zhiyan | DuncanT: jdurgin: for now, i just plan that cover base/template image preparing, future to cover cow... | 16:18 |
| winston-d | markwash: does zhiyan's bp target havana? | 16:18 |
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| DuncanT | zhiyan: If it only works for some cinder backends, I'm like to come along downvoting it... that sort of feature split is very harmful | 16:19 |
| markwash | winston-d: glance-cinder-driver? yes | 16:19 |
| winston-d | zhiyan: how about your bp for nova? | 16:19 |
| DuncanT | zhiyan: Unless you have some fallback mechanism so that it goes back to the old way transparently I guess... | 16:19 |
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| avishay | bswartz: this is going beyond 'brick', right? | 16:20 |
| markwash | sorry I am late :-( has there been discussion of cinder supporting attaching volumes to glance api nodes? | 16:20 |
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| rushiagr | Hi all sorry i m late | 16:20 |
| DuncanT | markwash: That's what we're discussing now | 16:20 |
| hemna | morning | 16:20 |
| bswartz | avishay: yes I think so -- vish wanted to ultimately eliminate all the storage code from nova | 16:21 |
| zhiyan | markwash: yes, we are discussing... | 16:21 |
| avishay | bswartz: yes, i agree that this is working towards that goal | 16:21 |
| markwash | DuncanT: I admit I don't understand all the implications of attaching volumes to glance nodes, but I'm a bit scared of that approach. Do other folks here have alternative proposals? | 16:21 |
| DuncanT | avishay: cinder agent is going way beyond brick, yes, though it will use lots of brick code I expect | 16:21 |
| markwash | or am I just being chicken little? | 16:22 |
| DuncanT | markwash: The volume only gets attached to the compute node I think, not the glance node | 16:22 |
| winston-d | hemna: morning | 16:22 |
| DuncanT | markwash: Unless I'm failing to understand the design | 16:22 |
| hemna | avishay, I was going to do the refactor stuff into brick | 16:22 |
| markwash | DuncanT: there is some provision for reading the volume data directly from the glance http api, for backwards compatibility | 16:22 |
| avishay | hemna: OK so you move stuff to brick which gets used by cinder-agent? | 16:23 |
| winston-d | markwash: so glance does have to attach the volume to write data? | 16:23 |
| DuncanT | markwash: Ah, that causes some issue for e.g. fibrechannel installations... | 16:23 |
| hemna | I'm not familiar with the term cinder-agent, but the idea was to eventually remove the attach/detach code from nova | 16:23 |
| zhiyan | winston-d: yes | 16:23 |
| hemna | and only use the code that I'll put into brick | 16:23 |
| markwash | winston-d: under the given plan, yes. . but as I said I'm hesitant | 16:24 |
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| DuncanT | hemna: cinder-agent was the name put on an early suggestion for doing code removal | 16:24 |
| hemna | but for starters, just write the code in brick, get it working in cinder | 16:24 |
| hemna | then remove the code from nova | 16:24 |
| hemna | DuncanT, ok. | 16:24 |
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| hemna | I have a 3par driver feature to get in, then I'll start working on the attach/detach code | 16:25 |
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| avishay | hemna: Who cares about 3par? ;) | 16:26 |
| hemna | :P | 16:26 |
| winston-d | lol | 16:26 |
| zhiyan | hamna: yes. but folks, for this 'common' attching/detaching part, seems the options are all under discussing right? | 16:26 |
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| avishay | Is there some concrete plan for this transistion? brick, agent, etc.? | 16:26 |
| hemna | avishay, my discussions with john were basically | 16:27 |
| hemna | put the first pass into brick | 16:27 |
| hemna | get that working in cinder | 16:27 |
| hemna | then get brick into oslo | 16:27 |
| zhiyan | hemna: just iscsi +AOE? | 16:27 |
| hemna | and then use brick in nova | 16:27 |
| zhiyan | include others? | 16:27 |
| DuncanT | zhiyan: One option being discussed for things like backup, migration etc is to add a driver API that does reads & writes via the driver, rather than requiring an attach | 16:27 |
| hemna | zhiyan, this originated from the idea of getting FC attach/detach working, so the plan was to do iSCSI and FC at least | 16:27 |
| zhiyan | ok....if that can I just port attach/detach code to glance from nova? | 16:28 |
| markwash | DuncanT: I really like that idea, then glance can just proxy calls out to that reader | 16:28 |
| hemna | DuncanT, another option discussed was to create a utility VM and make the VM do the work...but that feels heavy | 16:28 |
| zhiyan | directly? | 16:28 |
| avishay | DuncanT: what do you mean by "read & write via the driver"? | 16:28 |
| thingee | I'm not sure I understand why somethings are in brick and somethings are in cinder agent. seems like it'll confuse new comers. If cinder agent is to take stuff away with volume manager, it should just have implementation in brick | 16:28 |
| guitarzan | have the backend do the operation itself when applicable | 16:28 |
| avishay | DuncanT: for LVM/ceph/etc? | 16:29 |
| hemna | zhiyan, once brick is in oslo, you should just be able to use the brick attach/detach code | 16:29 |
| zhiyan | hemna: H-2? | 16:29 |
| jdurgin | avishay: have some kind of open/read/write/close api, where open/close means attach/detach for lvm, but use other methods for e.g. ceph and sheepdog | 16:29 |
| DuncanT | avishay: Yeah. Many/most drivers will probably just do an attach and read/write, but if they want to do it over http or soem other voodoo then they are welcome to | 16:29 |
| zhiyan | hemna: I just want to implement somthing for H-2, such as glance-cinder-driver... | 16:29 |
| hemna | yah, I'll be shooting for H2, but most likely longer :( | 16:29 |
| zhiyan | :( | 16:29 |
| winston-d | zhiyan: but to make FC work, having common code is not enough, you have to have hardware (HBAs) installed on glance node | 16:29 |
| DuncanT | jdurgin is the mastermind for such designs | 16:30 |
| avishay | jdurgin: sounds good | 16:30 |
| avishay | DuncanT: OK | 16:30 |
| hemna | winston-d, correct, you have to have FC HBAs on the node | 16:30 |
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| markwash | winston-d: it sounds like adding that kind of hardware requirement for glance nodes will not work out well | 16:30 |
| zhiyan | winston-d: yes, i c | 16:30 |
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| DuncanT | Or else have a driver that checks if there is an HBA and if not does an http stream or something to a node that does... | 16:31 |
| hemna | v2 | 16:31 |
| hemna | :P | 16:31 |
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| winston-d | markwash: exactly, that's why i fail to see the value of zhiyan's BP | 16:31 |
| hemna | winston-d, well cinder itself has the same problem right now | 16:31 |
| hemna | it requires a homogeneous deployment | 16:32 |
| winston-d | hemna: that's why we come up with ioworker node idea, right? | 16:32 |
| hemna | but I'm not sure why someone would deploy half their OS deployment with FC and half w/o | 16:32 |
| avishay | I suggest that someone (hemna?) do a first pass of some high level design of this whole deal on some wiki/etherpad and everyone can bring up objections/refinements? | 16:32 |
| DuncanT | I'm all for volunteering Hemna ;-) | 16:33 |
| hemna | avishay, didn't we do that in the design session? | 16:33 |
| vincent_hou | jdurgin: Does this resemble what is in your mind? https://review.openstack.org/#/c/28931/ | 16:33 |
| avishay | hemna: I don't know, I had to miss that one :P | 16:33 |
| avishay | hemna: the etherpad for that is pretty bare | 16:33 |
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| hemna | yah I guess no one took notes | 16:34 |
| DuncanT | The ioworker stuff got discussed, I think the glace wrinkle is new | 16:34 |
| jdurgin | vincent_hou: almost, I'll leave some comments | 16:34 |
| hemna | DuncanT, yah | 16:34 |
| bswartz | avishay: this one? https://etherpad.openstack.org/havana-cinder-local-storage-library | 16:34 |
| hemna | do we have an ioworker BP ? | 16:34 |
| winston-d | hemna: i can't find that one | 16:35 |
| avishay | bswartz: i thought this one? https://etherpad.openstack.org/Cinder-Havana-Refactor-Attach-Code | 16:35 |
| bswartz | avishay: that's the one for brick | 16:35 |
| hemna | bswartz, I think that was vishy's etherpad for the long term plans of moving all storage related work to cinder | 16:35 |
| zhiyan | hemna: for now, i'm just now sure, i should waiting your changes or extract attach/detach code from nova to glance directly | 16:35 |
| zhiyan | since you said that need H-2... | 16:36 |
| hemna | I have H2 as the target. We'll see if I get there. | 16:36 |
| hemna | I also have the state mgmt stuff on my plate as well | 16:36 |
| hemna | I need a clone of myself. | 16:37 |
| avishay | Anyway, again, I think it would be good to have a concrete design in hand that works for all protocols/back-ends/use-cases before someone runs off and writes code? | 16:37 |
| zhiyan | so, i don't think i should just waiting 'cinder/brick' and cinder-agent.. | 16:37 |
| winston-d | hemna: make it 2 or even more. :) | 16:37 |
| zhiyan | :) | 16:37 |
| DuncanT | zhiyan: Extracting the current code is not enough. You'll need a fallback path for backends that don't expose a device or else you won't be backend agnostic and I'll be along to complain.... | 16:37 |
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| DuncanT | zhiyan: I'm not sure how you can do fallback | 16:38 |
| hemna | DuncanT, fwiw, we don't really have a fallback mechanism in place now. | 16:38 |
| winston-d | DuncanT: i agree. | 16:38 |
| DuncanT | hemna: Yeah, need to fix that too ;-) | 16:38 |
| hemna | the assumption is a homogeneous deployment on nova nodes now. | 16:38 |
| hemna | yes, we do...but not for H2 | 16:38 |
| zhiyan | DuncanT: yes, so i talked that with you, maybe i need a new api to drive the state machine properly for volume and snapshot. | 16:38 |
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| DuncanT | zhiyan: Yeah, that bit should be easy enough to do... just copy the attach API and change instance to host and add a reason field | 16:39 |
| zhiyan | DuncanT: yes, maybe need a new api... | 16:40 |
| zhiyan | but not change 'attach' api directly... | 16:40 |
| DuncanT | zhiyan: Yes, a new API | 16:40 |
| hemna | state mgmt is another topic...and it's being worked on now | 16:40 |
| zhiyan | and that new api can be used in future requirement....it's general. | 16:41 |
| zhiyan | hemna: on going?? who do that | 16:41 |
| DuncanT | zhiyan: Want to try to code up that API for review and then we can talk about the actual IO again next week when people have had time to think on it? | 16:41 |
| DuncanT | Looks like we're spinning our wheels a bit now | 16:41 |
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| zhiyan | DuncanT, ok, i like it, but folks, i don't think is the key.... | 16:43 |
| zhiyan | the key is all about actual IO | 16:43 |
| winston-d | zhiyan: the key is even if you can extract attach code from nova to glance, it's not good enough and i think you better wait. | 16:43 |
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| DuncanT | zhiyan: Yes, but people need time to think about that, so we can bring it up again next week after people have had time to discuss it among themselves for a few days | 16:43 |
| zhiyan | for now, it seems the concrete design just is what hemna did | 16:44 |
| zhiyan | extract code to 'cinder/brick' | 16:44 |
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| zhiyan | others are all on going... | 16:44 |
| hemna | we extracted the nova attach/detach code from nova for grizzly, but I'm sure it's already behind in bug fixes | 16:44 |
| DuncanT | brick is not generic attach | 16:44 |
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| DuncanT | brick is a bunch of useful code for doing some driver stuff | 16:44 |
| hemna | well hopefully the attach/detach code in brick will be used by nova | 16:45 |
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| thingee | DuncanT: maybe we should work on that then with brick :) | 16:45 |
| hemna | so we don't have dupe code between the 2 projects and need to bugfix twice | 16:45 |
| zhiyan | DuncanT: thanks. so i'm readly not sure, what's the concrete design about generic attach ? :) | 16:45 |
| DuncanT | zhiyan: There is no concrete design. People will thing about it and discuss it again next week | 16:46 |
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| zhiyan | hemna: do you have plan to add attach/detach code to brick? | 16:46 |
| DuncanT | zhiyan: Lots of people have thoughts / concerns, we aren't going to get a conclusion now | 16:46 |
| hemna | zhiyan, I thought I touched on that already? | 16:46 |
| zhiyan | Duncant: yes, i totally understand. thanks. | 16:47 |
| hemna | ok lets move on | 16:47 |
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| zhiyan | but i just want to do some thing to get my bp move forward... | 16:47 |
| DuncanT | #topic Rate limiting, types and the database | 16:47 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Rate limiting, types and the database (Meeting topic: cinder)" | 16:47 | |
| avishay | If everyone goes off and thinks about a design we will either have 20 designs, or more likely be in the same place we are now | 16:47 |
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| DuncanT | avishay: We can take it to #cinder later | 16:48 |
| hemna | DuncanT, +1 | 16:48 |
| DuncanT | So we've a review open for rate limiting | 16:48 |
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| avishay | Let one person make a design, email to the list, everyone can raise objections, and we can discuss next week productively? | 16:48 |
| vincent_hou | avishay: +1 | 16:49 |
| hemna | avishay, I'll try and throw something together at a high level. I don't think it has to be complicated IMO | 16:49 |
| avishay | hemna: thanks | 16:49 |
| zhiyan | avishay: +1, i'd like to take 'new api' part, to drive the state machine properly. | 16:49 |
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| DuncanT | #action hemna to rough draft a design for host direct I/O / direct attach for discussion | 16:50 |
| avishay | OK, somebody do it, email it, and we'll discuss. | 16:50 |
| avishay | Moving on | 16:50 |
| DuncanT | So there were some concerns about adding rate limiting stuff directly to the volume-types table in the database | 16:50 |
| DuncanT | This grew into a few discussions about what our API goals are now that volume types are getting somewhat overloaded | 16:51 |
| DuncanT | I threw my thoughts onto an etherpad at https://etherpad.openstack.org/cinder-volume-types-evolution but haven't had much feedback | 16:52 |
| DuncanT | I believe winston-d has a plan to rework the patch vaguely along these lines to see how it looks? | 16:52 |
| guitarzan | DuncanT: those other entities better by identified by uuids instead of names :) | 16:52 |
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| DuncanT | guitarzan: I hate UUIDs but you're probably right | 16:52 |
| guitarzan | well, no I'm just as wrong about it as we are volume types :) | 16:53 |
| winston-d | yes, i'll rework the patch and submit soon. | 16:53 |
| DuncanT | guitarzan: Unique names work fine in my opinion and have the huge advantage of being readable, but if somebody really wants UUIDs I'm not going to push hard against it | 16:53 |
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| DuncanT | Anybody see any serious holes in the design? | 16:54 |
| guitarzan | DuncanT: I think the same about vtype names :) | 16:54 |
| guitarzan | it seems a little odd to have those specific classes | 16:54 |
| guitarzan | it will work obviously | 16:54 |
| DuncanT | qos and encyption you mean? | 16:54 |
| guitarzan | yes | 16:54 |
| guitarzan | is there a line to be drawn somewhere? | 16:54 |
| guitarzan | or does every distinguishing feature become an entity? | 16:54 |
| winston-d | anything else besides qos and encryption? | 16:55 |
| hemna | so the plan is to dump more core features into volume types? | 16:55 |
| DuncanT | I think we might end up with more classes over time... pushing them all under one abstraction is just going to lead to weird multiplexing. Only the admin sees the features, the external user still jsut sees volume types | 16:55 |
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| DuncanT | hemna: I think volume types are our principle abstraction for differentiating volumes... they make a nice abstraction from an external view in my opinion | 16:56 |
| guitarzan | so now the capabilities are tied directly to these new classes? | 16:56 |
| avishay | I guess this helps with the whole "standardizing" effort | 16:56 |
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| hemna | humm | 16:56 |
| hemna | kinda feels like a dumping ground | 16:56 |
| guitarzan | we killed 40 minutes with one topic | 16:57 |
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| DuncanT | hemna I'd rather not see lots of complexity exposed to the 'customer' if possible | 16:57 |
| avishay | guitarzan: "killed" is right :) | 16:57 |
| hemna | DuncanT, agreed | 16:57 |
| hemna | lol | 16:57 |
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| guitarzan | I think the last example, type-create feels weird | 16:58 |
| winston-d | anyway, if you are interested in rate-limit, qos, you may want to take a look at this as well: https://etherpad.openstack.org/cinder-extend-volume-types | 16:58 |
| guitarzan | maybe extra-specs suck, but maybe that's just an interface problem | 16:58 |
| DuncanT | I'd like to maybe see the capability stuff moved to a new class or classes, and volume types just become a bunch of those classes tied together | 16:58 |
| hartsocks | hey guys… I have a meeting in this room in a few minutes. | 16:58 |
| guitarzan | hartsocks: we're aware of that | 16:58 |
| DuncanT | hartsocks: Ok | 16:58 |
| hemna | we can move this to #openstack-cinder | 16:59 |
| avishay | Direction seems right but I will have to look at that last etherpad | 16:59 |
| DuncanT | Hmmm, since we're just about out of time, can I ask people to look at https://review.openstack.org/#/c/30291/ for testr migration please? | 16:59 |
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| winston-d | sure | 16:59 |
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| DuncanT | avishay: The details were made up off the top of my head :-) | 17:00 |
| DuncanT | Right, I'm afraid we need to move everything else over to #openstack-cinder | 17:00 |
| DuncanT | Thanks folks | 17:00 |
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| DuncanT | #endmeetign | 17:00 |
| hemna | yah we're out of time | 17:00 |
| winston-d | thx DuncanT | 17:00 |
| avishay | DuncanT: some of the best and worst ideas come from that sort of thinking ;) | 17:00 |
| zhiyan | thanks | 17:00 |
| avishay | thanks | 17:00 |
| DuncanT | #endmeeting | 17:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meetings" | 17:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed May 29 17:00:38 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 17:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/cinder/2013/cinder.2013-05-29-16.00.html | 17:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/cinder/2013/cinder.2013-05-29-16.00.txt | 17:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/cinder/2013/cinder.2013-05-29-16.00.log.html | 17:00 |
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| hartsocks | #startmeeting | 17:01 |
| openstack | hartsocks: Error: A meeting name is required, e.g., '#startmeeting Marketing Committee' | 17:01 |
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| hartsocks | #startmeeting VMwareAPI | 17:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed May 29 17:01:19 2013 UTC. The chair is hartsocks. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 17:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 17:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: VMwareAPI)" | 17:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'vmwareapi' | 17:01 |
| hartsocks | #topic salutations | 17:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "salutations (Meeting topic: VMwareAPI)" | 17:01 | |
| hartsocks | Greetings! Who is around to talk about VMwareAPI? | 17:01 |
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| ssshi | hi | 17:02 |
| hartsocks | heh. | 17:02 |
| hartsocks | hi | 17:02 |
| hartsocks | I know Dan W. is traveling. Do we have anyone from HP here? | 17:02 |
| kirankv | Hi | 17:02 |
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| hartsocks | that everyone? | 17:04 |
| hartsocks | (this will be a short meeting then… kinda feel bad for kicking #cinder out now) | 17:05 |
| ssshi | I'm just here to see you guys talking about the progress... | 17:05 |
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| hartsocks | okay... | 17:06 |
| hartsocks | #topic Blueprint followups | 17:06 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Blueprint followups (Meeting topic: VMwareAPI)" | 17:06 | |
| hartsocks | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/+spec/multiple-clusters-managed-by-one-service | 17:06 |
| hartsocks | and | 17:06 |
| hartsocks | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/+spec/accurate-capacity-of-clusters-for-scheduler | 17:06 |
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| hartsocks | kirankv: how is the copyright issue coming? | 17:07 |
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| Eustace | Copyright issue is still with Legal | 17:07 |
| kirankv | well the concerned team is looking into it | 17:07 |
| hartsocks | Any idea how long it might be? Will this cause problems hitting H-2 with these? | 17:08 |
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| kirankv | we will be posting the patches and hopefully we should have it sorted by that time frame | 17:08 |
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| hartsocks | please be sure to allow enough time for back-and-forth on the reviews. Lots of people will be looking at these. | 17:09 |
| kirankv | yes, this week we should be able to post a patch set with most of the review comments addressed | 17:10 |
| kirankv | The other reviews that have got multiple +1s are still not getting approved as well | 17:10 |
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| kirankv | how do we take them forward | 17:10 |
| hartsocks | For the record, can you post links for the chat log? | 17:11 |
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| hartsocks | We need to get russellb to give his +2 to some of these. | 17:11 |
| hartsocks | I noticed a comment from russellb related to: | 17:12 |
| kirankv | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/29396/ | 17:12 |
| hartsocks | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova?searchtext=vmware | 17:12 |
| kirankv | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/29552/ | 17:12 |
| kirankv | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/29552/ | 17:12 |
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| hartsocks | where he mentioned that 4 of our blueprints are assigned to the same person... | 17:12 |
| hartsocks | I presume that in fact the whole team is working on these? | 17:13 |
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| russellb | hartsocks: none are proposed for havana right now ... i kicked them back for whatever reason, once they're ready for me to review again, re-propose | 17:13 |
| russellb | they need to be assigned to whoever is doing the work, have a milestone target set, and then proposed for the havana series | 17:13 |
| kirankv | the cluster and resource pool related blueprints are part of the patchset that is now marked work in progress | 17:13 |
| hartsocks | Hmm… locks like I can't fiddle with these very much. | 17:14 |
| hartsocks | so… let's list what we need to do to these... | 17:15 |
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| kirankv | well they all are stuck due to the copyright concern | 17:15 |
| hartsocks | 1) assign to the person doing the work... | 17:15 |
| hartsocks | 2) yep… address that copyright concern... | 17:16 |
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| hartsocks | 3) assign a milestone target of H-2 | 17:16 |
| hartsocks | I can't do these steps since I'm not on the blueprint. Who can? | 17:16 |
| hartsocks | Are we really completely stuck until that copyright comes off? | 17:17 |
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| russellb | the assignee can update them | 17:18 |
| russellb | or you can ping me | 17:18 |
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| russellb | and yes, the copyright statement is completely useless AFAIK, and with no indication from the submitters of what purpose it was supposed to serve, i'm not accepting it ... | 17:18 |
| russellb | nobody else does it | 17:18 |
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| russellb | our LegalFAQ now says don't do it | 17:19 |
| kirankv | For esx-resource-pools-as-compute-nodes and Multiple VMware vCenter Clusters managed using single compute service, we are positive to make it to H2 since the patch set has been reviewed and we are in the process of addressing all review inputs | 17:19 |
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| russellb | hartsocks: you could submit your own blueprint, worded your own way, and then get the patch(es) updated to reference that blueprint | 17:20 |
| russellb | and then we just close the problematic ones as superseded | 17:20 |
| hartsocks | kirankv: how would you feel about this? Do you think that will cause any problems? | 17:21 |
| russellb | it's kind of a silly thing to have the code have to block on | 17:21 |
| russellb | so i'd recommend that so we can move on | 17:21 |
| Eustace | The copyright is meant to indicate that the bp is submitted by an HP employee | 17:22 |
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| kirankv | hartsocks: I can get back to you on this by tomorrow | 17:22 |
| Eustace | Is the Legal Wiki indicative of the legal stand of Openstack Foundation | 17:22 |
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| hartsocks | kirankv: okay. If I don't hear from you by this time tomorrow, I'll just do as russellb indicates and we can move forward that way. | 17:23 |
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| russellb | the LegalIssuesFAQ addresses that last question ... https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/LegalIssuesFAQ | 17:23 |
| russellb | (is it an official opinion) | 17:23 |
| russellb | no, it is not | 17:23 |
| hartsocks | kirankv: it is just paperwork… but I understand some companies might track these things on some people's performance reviews. | 17:23 |
| hartsocks | Okay, so we have an action plan there and we can finally unblock these two Havana-2 milestone blueprints. | 17:24 |
| Eustace | Then what is the Legal stand | 17:24 |
| russellb | hartsocks: hopefully based on the code, not blueprint paperwork | 17:24 |
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| kirankv | well it not performance reviews in our case | 17:24 |
| russellb | who files blueprint paperwork isn't terribly meaningful | 17:24 |
| hartsocks | russellb: I try not to presume. You never know. | 17:24 |
| russellb | i'm not presuming anything, i'm just stating my opinion on the usefulness of such a thing :-) | 17:25 |
| hartsocks | *lol* | 17:25 |
| hartsocks | Okay, then we're agreed, this whole copyright business can get cleared up quickly and isn't of any consequence? | 17:25 |
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| russellb | it *can* be, will it be? not in my hands | 17:26 |
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| russellb | hopefully i've at least made my stance clear | 17:26 |
| Eustace | If the copyright is not the Legal stahd of the openstack foundation then there is no reason to block checkins | 17:26 |
| ssshi | https://blueprints.launchpad.net/glance/+spec/hypervisor-templates-as-glance-images , this bp was also targeted at havana-2, should we add something in nova to support its validation? | 17:27 |
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| russellb | we don't need official legal opinion on every little thing, this was consensus on the legal discussion mailing list | 17:27 |
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| russellb | and as the PTL, it's my domain to set the rules on what can and can not go in | 17:28 |
| kirankv | ssshi: yes some changes are required in the nova driver | 17:28 |
| hartsocks | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/glance/+spec/hypervisor-templates-as-glance-images | 17:28 |
| russellb | anyway, *moves on* | 17:28 |
| Eustace | I'm sure I can update this Wiki and get this point removed... So then there is no validity of the copyright issue | 17:28 |
| Eustace | The checkins should be thne allowed against the original BP | 17:28 |
| ssshi | kirankv: and any bp on the nova side for this glance bp? | 17:29 |
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| hartsocks | Eustace: can we also distribute the blueprint's assignee's between your team members actually doing the work? | 17:29 |
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| Eustace | Kiran is doing all the work... | 17:29 |
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| hartsocks | You have one developer? | 17:30 |
| Eustace | He is very productive :) | 17:30 |
| kirankv | ssshi: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/+spec/deploy-vcenter-templates-from-vmware-nova-driver | 17:30 |
| kirankv | hartsocks: its assigned to the person working on it :) | 17:30 |
| Eustace | yes | 17:30 |
| Eustace | and we can get all the patches in for H2 | 17:30 |
| kirankv | the other patches are smaller and they all depend on the patch for multi cluster support using single service | 17:31 |
| kirankv | thats the reasonw e are holding them up | 17:31 |
| hartsocks | Well, we've targeted 2 of the blueprints for H2. Based on how well that went, you have 2 more… and a glance patch... | 17:31 |
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| hartsocks | … and it sounds like ssshi has identified a 3rd nova bp that needs to be written... | 17:32 |
| kirankv | we've worked around the glance part, so changes would not be needed on the glance driver, doc updates only | 17:33 |
| russellb | Eustace: the fact that you can vandalize the wiki to remove a point that was the result of a discussion on a mailing list is the worst argument i've heard. you're killing me. | 17:33 |
| hartsocks | ? | 17:33 |
| hartsocks | … reads through backlog ... | 17:34 |
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| kirankv | hartsocks: the nova changes required and asked by ssshi are addressed by #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/+spec/deploy-vcenter-templates-from-vmware-nova-driver | 17:35 |
| russellb | hartsocks: sorry, was looking elsewhere for a bit, didn't mean to interrupt, *shuts up now* | 17:35 |
| Eustace | The only point that I'm trying to make here is that this is not a Legal stand. Blocking a BP just because of a copyright is not right. I never meant to actually modify the Wiki :) | 17:35 |
| russellb | Eustace: but it's *my* stance | 17:36 |
| russellb | and I get to decide the rules for nova :-) | 17:36 |
| russellb | and my stance is based on consensus | 17:36 |
| hartsocks | kirankv: what's the target on this? | 17:36 |
| kirankv | What we have seen is that we need to do quite soe refactoring to our UTs similar to how it is done for KVM libvirt driver, to write UTs quickly, right now it takes quite some effort to get the UTs done | 17:37 |
| hartsocks | can we get an in-progress patch for review so the community can participate? | 17:37 |
| kirankv | A week after the the multi cluster checin goes through we will have the patches updated for the other bps | 17:37 |
| hartsocks | So... | 17:38 |
| hartsocks | H-3 target? | 17:38 |
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| hartsocks | Can you put that in the BP? | 17:38 |
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| kirankv | well i can post them as work in progress once ive finished update the new patch set for the existing two bps this week | 17:39 |
| ssshi | kirankv: what does UT stand for? | 17:39 |
| hartsocks | Do you know what "Milestone target" is for? | 17:39 |
| kirankv | ok, will mark them for H3 | 17:39 |
| hartsocks | Thank you. | 17:39 |
| kirankv | Unit Tests | 17:39 |
| Divakar | UT = Unit Test | 17:39 |
| hartsocks | Please remove those Copyright lines. | 17:39 |
| ssshi | got that. thanks. | 17:40 |
| hartsocks | If they are not gone this week I will simply create new blueprints that russellb will approve… we can work from there. This will allow me to perform the project management and milestone target setting as well. | 17:41 |
| russellb | hartsocks: sounds good, thanks | 17:41 |
| hartsocks | Any more on blueprints before we move on? | 17:41 |
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| hartsocks | Okay. | 17:42 |
| yaguang | I have create a blueprint https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/+spec/improve-vmware-disk-usage | 17:42 |
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| hartsocks | hmm… I'm not sure I understand this blueprint... | 17:43 |
| yaguang | this to support ephemeral disk for instance | 17:44 |
| kirankv | yaguang: do you want to make it par with libvirt behaviour? | 17:44 |
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| yaguang | yes | 17:44 |
| yaguang | does it make sense ? | 17:44 |
| kirankv | so you plan to add the difference between the image size and the flavor as as second disk? | 17:45 |
| yaguang | yes | 17:45 |
| yaguang | vm root size should be based on flavor | 17:46 |
| yaguang | and has nothing with the image size | 17:46 |
| Divakar | You can extend the size of the existing disk as well | 17:46 |
| hartsocks | Hmm… let's take this into #openstack-vmware for design discussion. This could go a number of different ways. | 17:47 |
| ssshi | I'm wondering how to specify the root/ephemeral size if we were to deploy from vcenter templates. | 17:47 |
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| hartsocks | Whatever you discuss, put it in the blueprint so the discussion doesn't end up locked in IRC but makes it back to the rest of the community. | 17:48 |
| yaguang | ok | 17:48 |
| hartsocks | I'll put a note to follow up on this next week. | 17:49 |
| hartsocks | #action follow up on https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/+spec/improve-vmware-disk-usage | 17:49 |
| kirankv | yaguang: which milestone are you targeting this bp for? | 17:49 |
| hartsocks | hey… over on #openstack-vmware with you! :-) target would be based on size-of-work which is based on design... | 17:50 |
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| yaguang | H2 | 17:50 |
| yaguang | yes, so it's early to set the milestone right now | 17:50 |
| yaguang | we may need more discussion for this | 17:51 |
| hartsocks | yep. H2 might be realistic, but it probably isn't. | 17:51 |
| hartsocks | I'm really glad the blueprint discussion has gotten lively (and messy) that's a good sign. | 17:52 |
| hartsocks | Let's keep up the good work here and try and conform to what the Nova community needs from us. They have rules we need to follow. Let's try and follow them unless we have a solid reason to argue for different. | 17:53 |
| hartsocks | We're running short on time. | 17:53 |
| hartsocks | I'll ask that you use the #openstack-vmware channel to discuss issues in IRC when you need to, but remember to document changes in the BP. If anyone needs help writing things up my English is pretty good. I can help out if you need it. | 17:54 |
| hartsocks | I do want to switch to a quick bug discussion. | 17:55 |
| hartsocks | #topic high priority bugs | 17:55 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "high priority bugs (Meeting topic: VMwareAPI)" | 17:55 | |
| hartsocks | Is there anything *not* assigned that is blocking users, customers, etc? that is not being addressed? | 17:55 |
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| hartsocks | #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/nova/+bug/1180044 | 17:57 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1180044 in nova "nova boot fails when any VMware vCenter managed datacenter or container object is empty" [High,Confirmed] | 17:57 |
| hartsocks | I am working on this next. Has anyone else observed this issue? It turns out this may be peculiar to a sub-set of users. | 17:58 |
| hartsocks | #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/nova/+bug/1183192 | 17:58 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1183192 in nova "VMware VC Driver does not honor hw_vif_model from glance" [Critical,In progress] | 17:58 |
| yaguang | I am working on this | 17:59 |
| hartsocks | Looks like you need some reviews. | 17:59 |
| hartsocks | Okay. I guess we're out of time. | 18:00 |
| hartsocks | #openstack-vmware is open for people who still need to talk. | 18:00 |
| hartsocks | … feel free to use that or set up meeting times in there. We can report them back to the official meeting later. | 18:00 |
| hartsocks | See you next week. Same time, same channel. | 18:00 |
| hartsocks | #endmeeting | 18:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meetings" | 18:01 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed May 29 18:01:00 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 18:01 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/vmwareapi/2013/vmwareapi.2013-05-29-17.01.html | 18:01 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/vmwareapi/2013/vmwareapi.2013-05-29-17.01.txt | 18:01 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/vmwareapi/2013/vmwareapi.2013-05-29-17.01.log.html | 18:01 |
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| notmyname | swift meeting time | 19:00 |
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| notmyname | 1900utc by my clock, let's get started | 19:00 |
| notmyname | #startmeeting swift | 19:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed May 29 19:00:36 2013 UTC. The chair is notmyname. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 19:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 19:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: swift)" | 19:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'swift' | 19:00 |
| litong | @notmyname, good afternoon | 19:01 |
| notmyname | hellow everyone | 19:01 |
| notmyname | things to cover today: next swift release, API, summit, and a few other things | 19:01 |
| lpabon | hello | 19:01 |
| torgomatic | ahoy | 19:01 |
| alexpecoraro | hi | 19:01 |
| notmyname | first, a few simple things | 19:01 |
| shri1 | hey | 19:01 |
| portante | helo | 19:01 |
| portante | hello | 19:01 |
| notmyname | #topic housekeeping/misc | 19:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "housekeeping/misc (Meeting topic: swift)" | 19:01 | |
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| notmyname | The naming for the next OpenStack release (the "I" release) is open for a vote. | 19:02 |
| notmyname | 'the poll is at https://launchpad.net/~openstack/+poll/i-release-naming | 19:02 |
| notmyname | on the topic of openstack releases, the next summit is in hing kong | 19:02 |
| notmyname | hong kong | 19:03 |
| notmyname | dates are nov 5-8 | 19:03 |
| notmyname | http://www.openstack.org/summit/openstack-summit-hong-kong-2013/ | 19:03 |
| notmyname | and if you are a US citizen, here's your visa info: http://hongkong.usconsulate.gov/acs_hkvisa.html | 19:03 |
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| notmyname | if you are planning on attending, make sure your passport is up to date. it can take up to 2 months to get one, so do it now | 19:04 |
| notmyname | a little more specific to swift now, let's talk about the next release of swift | 19:04 |
| notmyname | #topic next swift release | 19:05 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "next swift release (Meeting topic: swift)" | 19:05 | |
| notmyname | I'd like to cut the next release when the final global clusters features land | 19:05 |
| litong | @notmyname, for US citizen , you do not need visa if you stay there less than 90 days. | 19:05 |
| notmyname | litong: correct | 19:05 |
| litong | but you do need a valid passport. | 19:05 |
| notmyname | the proxy affinity is the major one, but I've also got my eye on the cross-region replication | 19:06 |
| notmyname | any comments or questions on when we should do the next release? is that a good plan or should we do something else? | 19:06 |
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| notmyname | I'll assume either everyone agrees or I've dropped out of IRC again... ;-) | 19:07 |
| torgomatic | I'd like to see https://review.openstack.org/30797 merged before the next release | 19:07 |
| portante | I'd like to see thread pools make the next release | 19:08 |
| litong | @notmyname, cross-region replication is a good one. | 19:08 |
| torgomatic | or at least, I'd like to see that bug fixed; doesn't have to be my patchset | 19:08 |
| shri1 | notmyname: whats the tentative release date for these features to be completed? | 19:08 |
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| notmyname | torgomatic: portante: agreed on both | 19:08 |
| notmyname | shri1: there is no date as of yet. it's done when it's done | 19:08 |
| shri1 | *if these features have to be completed | 19:08 |
| shri1 | I see | 19:08 |
| notmyname | shri1: sooner is better than later | 19:08 |
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| litong | if anyone can review this one (just need one more +1 to merge), that will be really nice. https://review.openstack.org/#/c/22569/ | 19:09 |
| notmyname | but aside from the 6 month openstack cycle, we aren't doing any sort of time-based releases | 19:09 |
| portante | notmyname: do you want to keep the DiskFile and DatabaseBroker out of the next release to not delay it? | 19:09 |
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| notmyname | so basically, all this comes down to doing reviews | 19:10 |
| notmyname | (what's new?) | 19:10 |
| portante | ;) | 19:10 |
| litong | @notmyname, yes, yes, yes. review, please | 19:10 |
| notmyname | #topic reviews | 19:10 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "reviews (Meeting topic: swift)" | 19:10 | |
| notmyname | speaking of reviews... | 19:10 |
| notmyname | just a quick note, especially for core reviewers: if someone has already given a +2 and there is a minor issue (eg typo in docs or commit message), it probably shouldn't be given a -1 by another reviewer. that resets the previous +2 and slows everything down | 19:12 |
| notmyname | quick follow-up commits could be a good way to address small issues like that, as long as master remains deployable | 19:12 |
| notmyname | just something to keep in mind and try to see if we can speed up the review time | 19:13 |
| notmyname | #topic bot in channel | 19:13 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "bot in channel (Meeting topic: swift)" | 19:13 | |
| * portante ack | 19:13 | |
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| notmyname | last quick thing: I added the openstackgerrit bot to #openstack-swift. anyone think it should be removed? | 19:14 |
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| notmyname | it reports on new patches and merges | 19:14 |
| notmyname | but if it gets too annoying, we can easily remove it | 19:14 |
| * torgomatic likes having the bot there | 19:14 | |
| * portante agrees | 19:14 | |
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| litong | I think it is a good thing. | 19:15 |
| notmyname | cool. I like it too. let's keep it until it gets to be a problem | 19:15 |
| notmyname | ogelbukh1: glad to see you. I'm interested in the mirantis patches wrt global clusters, but they are all marker WIP | 19:16 |
| notmyname | ogelbukh1: basically, I want the functionality to be in the next release | 19:16 |
| notmyname | and I doubt many people have looked at them since they are marked WIP | 19:16 |
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| dosaboy | is there a bp/wiki entry for the global clusters work? | 19:17 |
| notmyname | dosaboy: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/swift/+spec/multi-region | 19:18 |
| dosaboy | notmyname: cool thanks | 19:18 |
| notmyname | portante: ready to talk about DiskFile? | 19:18 |
| portante | sure | 19:18 |
| notmyname | #topic DiskFile refactor | 19:18 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "DiskFile refactor (Meeting topic: swift)" | 19:18 | |
| notmyname | portante: go for it | 19:18 |
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| portante | so how many folks have heard about this effort? | 19:19 |
| notmyname | o/ | 19:19 |
| portante | I not that notmyname and torgomatic have looked at? | 19:19 |
| torgomatic | o/ | 19:19 |
| notmyname | (quiet crowd today) | 19:19 |
| portante | From April's summit, we are working to refactor the DiskFile and DatabaseBroker to define them as "public" classes so that we can have various implementations of those classes | 19:20 |
| alexpecoraro | i've heard of it | 19:20 |
| portante | the existing implementation would be the first | 19:20 |
| portante | to date, we've proposed https://review.openstack.org/#/c/30051/ | 19:20 |
| portante | which is a stab at refactoring just DiskFile to define the APIs | 19:21 |
| portante | It still has 18 unit test failures, so it is a work-in-progress for sure | 19:21 |
| portante | but I am seeing folks to take a look at the changes to see if they make sense and if they are in a direction we want to go in | 19:21 |
| notmyname | aside from the minor comments I left, I like the direction of it | 19:22 |
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| torgomatic | I like the way it's going | 19:22 |
| portante | notmyname has suggested that I pull out the "reader" work, which is sister work to the "writer" work performed in https://review.openstack.org/#/c/27149/ | 19:22 |
| portante | that might make it easier to review | 19:23 |
| alexpecoraro | i haven't yet, but i'm interested in taking a look and will provide any feedback that i can think of | 19:23 |
| portante | alexpecoraro: thanks | 19:23 |
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| portante | I personally think pulling the "reader" work out would be a good thing, but want to balance too many things to review against too large a change to review | 19:23 |
| portante | The next question is how to take this in pieces so that it does not straddle a release and possibly cause problems | 19:25 |
| portante | I would like each piece to be fully functional, but still, not a fan of half-way for a release | 19:25 |
| notmyname | portante: well, anything that lands should be distinct enough to work itself | 19:25 |
| torgomatic | is it really a problem if it straddles a release? I mean, at each step, Swift is still working | 19:25 |
| notmyname | eg extracting the reader doesn't break anything | 19:25 |
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| portante | true enough | 19:26 |
| portante | if folks are fine with that, then let's work to target the "reader" work pulled out of the next release, and then the full API definition to follow | 19:26 |
| notmyname | I'm ok with that | 19:26 |
| notmyname | anyone else have comments? | 19:26 |
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| portante | certainly I am available for questions afterwards | 19:27 |
| litong | when it is in, how one can replace with a different implementation? | 19:27 |
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| portante | ah, em, ah, well, er, so, still working on those mechanics. :) | 19:28 |
| notmyname | heh | 19:28 |
| notmyname | worst-case (ie now), monkey-patching, right? | 19:28 |
| portante | right | 19:28 |
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| litong | @portante, I am thinking about LTFS. | 19:29 |
| portante | best case, defined backends associated with a know string | 19:29 |
| portante | LFS patch? | 19:29 |
| portante | litong? | 19:29 |
| litong | right. | 19:29 |
| litong | Linear Tape File System | 19:29 |
| portante | The DiskFile and DatabaseBroker refactoring work is going to be a subclass of that | 19:29 |
| litong | very low cost storage. | 19:29 |
| portante | ah, yes | 19:29 |
| portante | I see now | 19:29 |
| litong | in thoery, we should be able to do that. | 19:30 |
| portante | yes | 19:30 |
| litong | swift cluster can be a mixed disk , tape, very fast storage and some what slow storage. | 19:30 |
| notmyname | I've got a couple of uses too (the most obvious is optimizing some XFS-specific things, if possible) | 19:30 |
| torgomatic | I'd like to use it to let me audit for missing objects on non-XFS filesystems | 19:30 |
| notmyname | well, more quickly audit ;-) | 19:31 |
| portante | to that end, it would be helpful to get the thread pools work in before this work | 19:31 |
| torgomatic | notmyname: true; right now, though, it takes until another update invalidates hashes.pkl before anyone notices a missing file | 19:31 |
| litong | so the question is, when this patch is in, will it be every node with same driver or object node can have mixed drivers. | 19:31 |
| portante | I would like to make sure this refactoring is considered on top of that | 19:31 |
| torgomatic | so let's say "update in bounded time" :) | 19:31 |
| portante | Also, regarding the DatabaseBroker side, the work that David Haddas did for the "db_file" exists code, would be useful | 19:32 |
| notmyname | litong: that will be determined by the yet-to-be-defined inclusion mechanism, I'm usre | 19:32 |
| notmyname | portante: so what you're saying is "do more reviews" ;-) | 19:33 |
| portante | Also, zaitcev proposed a patch there as well | 19:33 |
| portante | ;) | 19:33 |
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| * portante smiles quietly to himself | 19:33 | |
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| notmyname | #agreed do more reviews | 19:33 |
| notmyname | (now it's official) | 19:34 |
| portante | ;) | 19:34 |
| notmyname | ok, shall we move on? | 19:34 |
| portante | I'm good | 19:34 |
| notmyname | #topic swift API | 19:34 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "swift API (Meeting topic: swift)" | 19:34 | |
| notmyname | last thing to discuss today | 19:34 |
| notmyname | https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Swift/API | 19:34 |
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| notmyname | this is a description of what I believe is the subset of functionality that can be defined as "swift" and that we can therefore call swift API v1 | 19:35 |
| notmyname | but there are a couple of outstanding questions, and I'm not sure who has actually looked at the page (there certainly haven't been many edits) | 19:35 |
| litong | @notmyname, totally agree with the first 2 items. ACL and Auth. | 19:36 |
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| litong | multi-range is not supported on large objects | 19:36 |
| notmyname | the goal is not to restrict functionality but to find the subset of functionality that currently-deployed swift clusters (ie from the swift source code) support | 19:36 |
| litong | we could have that, if the patch got reviewed. I worked on that for 4 months, | 19:37 |
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| notmyname | litong: right, I think that distinction was lost in my last edit | 19:37 |
| portante | So ACLs is interesting, because the code chose key names stored in the metadata on disk already, right? | 19:37 |
| litong | can we have that back? I mean the multi-range on large objects. | 19:37 |
| portante | Most auth filters rely on that format, don't they? | 19:37 |
| notmyname | portante: yes, probably | 19:38 |
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| portante | would it cause a problem to define ACLs as part of the v1 API? | 19:39 |
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| portante | it is kinda asymetrical, since an auth filter would not be part of the v1 API | 19:39 |
| litong | @portante, once it is in API, it alomst feel like required. some company may want to ACL completely different way. | 19:40 |
| portante | but this is what it is today, these ACLs are stored on disk that way | 19:40 |
| litong | I mean "do ACL differently." | 19:40 |
| litong | @portante, you do not have to use it. | 19:41 |
| notmyname | I want to have a v2 API that has pretty much all of the functionality in the codebase, but I don't think we should ever deprecate v1. This is to give a baseline of what can be called an implementation of the swift api | 19:41 |
| litong | you can add your own ACL at the proxy server any way you want. | 19:41 |
| notmyname | portante: since ACL definitions are only meaningful to a particular auth system, it doesn't make sense to me to define an ACL format as part of the swift api (especially a v1 api) | 19:42 |
| litong | @notmyname, not in v1, v2, or any other version. | 19:42 |
| notmyname | perhaps v1 and v2 are bad names. perhaps "basic functionality" and "complete functionality" are better | 19:42 |
| notmyname | litong: perhaps. I'm not sure I'm willing to go that far yet | 19:43 |
| litong | it conflicts with separation of concerns (design principals) | 19:43 |
| litong | no matter how you define it , someone won't like it | 19:43 |
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| portante | what are the metadata key names used by the tempauth and other auth system? | 19:44 |
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| notmyname | I'd like to agree that the wiki page is an accurate reflection of what we as a group can call the v1 API | 19:44 |
| portante | do we have to define a names apced for the v1 API then? | 19:44 |
| notmyname | portante: I'd just leave X-Container-Read and X-Container-Write out of it | 19:44 |
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| notmyname | the other questions I had were around tempurl and large object support | 19:45 |
| portante | okay | 19:45 |
| notmyname | I like them both. I want to have a definition that says both "here is something that defines swift" but also not so restrictive that existing clusters aren't swift any more | 19:46 |
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| notmyname | so at this very moment, I'm leaning towards not including them. but I go back and forth | 19:46 |
| portante | is tempurl purely a filter? | 19:47 |
| portante | Or does it rely on some code in the app server side? | 19:47 |
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| notmyname | it is implemented as such, but that is immaterial to its inclusion | 19:47 |
| portante | hmm, messy | 19:48 |
| notmyname | I think it's important to separate the implementation decisions (ie middleware or not) from the functionality | 19:49 |
| notmyname | eg dynamic large objects vs static large objects. one is middleware and the other isn't | 19:49 |
| torgomatic | notmyname: agreed 100% | 19:49 |
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| portante | well, if I have an implementation that can use the existing tempurl filter, then my implementation could say it supports it | 19:50 |
| notmyname | to me the question is "when someone claims they have a swift cluster, what functionality should my client assume exists as a baseline?" | 19:50 |
| portante | if I don't, then I have to implement it (like Ceph folks can use filters) | 19:50 |
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| notmyname | portante: correct. and in your case, when Red Hat says that gluster supports the Swift API, what does that mean for clients? | 19:51 |
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| portante | today, we support all the filters because we reuse most of the code | 19:51 |
| notmyname | as you should! | 19:51 |
| notmyname | ;-) | 19:51 |
| portante | ;) | 19:52 |
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| torgomatic | the way I see it, if a cluster lets me set X-Account-Meta-Temp-Url-Key on my account, and then do some HMAC magic to make a URL like /v1/AUTH_me/con/obj?temp_url_sig=X&temp_url_expires=Y and that url *works*, then that cluster supports Swift signed URLs | 19:52 |
| torgomatic | it's all from the client's perspective | 19:52 |
| notmyname | yes | 19:52 |
| portante | okay, I'm easily convinced | 19:52 |
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| notmyname | but should that be in the swift v1 api? :-) | 19:53 |
| torgomatic | I don't care if the implementation is using swift.common.middleware.tempurl verbatim, hacked up, or if it's got a hand-rolled proxy server written in node.js and befunge in front that handles it ;) | 19:53 |
| litong | @notmyname, if that is really useful to customers, yes it should be in. | 19:53 |
| litong | we are defining an API after all. | 19:53 |
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| * torgomatic thinks signed requests *should* be in the Swift v1 API | 19:53 | |
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| notmyname | IOW, should any clusters out there that don't support it today no longer be able to be called a swift cluster? | 19:53 |
| notmyname | litong: usefulness isn't the criteria IMO, since we are only formalizing an API post-facto | 19:54 |
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| notmyname | and we're running out of time, so it seems that there isn't a broad consensus | 19:55 |
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| portante | hmmm, its the post-facto thingy that has me wondering here, not the core principle (which I like) | 19:55 |
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| notmyname | portante: basically, I don't want so write a tester against the v1 spec and have mercado libre, wikimedia, vimeo, rackspace cloud files, or HP fail it :-) | 19:56 |
| notmyname | and all the others | 19:56 |
| portante | yes | 19:56 |
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| portante | that is why I am thinking it should be based on the app server code vs filter code | 19:56 |
| portante | for post-facto definition | 19:56 |
| portante | not for the principle or the future | 19:56 |
| portante | define v1 based on that, immediately define v2 based on the principle | 19:57 |
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| litong | are we starting the API on the wrong foot? | 19:57 |
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| litong | I think stick with the principal is important. we can not change an api in v2 which was just defined in v1. | 19:57 |
| portante | litong: it is the foot we are on already, I think. | 19:57 |
| notmyname | we should continue this in the -swift channel | 19:58 |
| portante | we won't be, if I understandthings, we'll only be adding to the API | 19:58 |
| portante | k | 19:58 |
| notmyname | we're out of time | 19:58 |
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| notmyname | #agreed to nothing yet | 19:58 |
| notmyname | thanks for your time everyone | 19:58 |
| notmyname | #endmeeting | 19:58 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meetings" | 19:58 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed May 29 19:58:42 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 19:58 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/swift/2013/swift.2013-05-29-19.00.html | 19:58 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/swift/2013/swift.2013-05-29-19.00.txt | 19:58 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/swift/2013/swift.2013-05-29-19.00.log.html | 19:58 |
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| shardy | #startmeeting heat | 20:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed May 29 20:00:53 2013 UTC. The chair is shardy. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 20:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 20:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: heat)" | 20:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'heat' | 20:00 |
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| hanney | o/ | 20:01 |
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| zaneb | howdy y'all | 20:01 |
| adrian_otto | hi | 20:01 |
| jpeeler | here | 20:01 |
| stevebaker | meep | 20:01 |
| SpamapS | o/ | 20:01 |
| therve | Hi! | 20:01 |
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| shardy | asalkeld around? | 20:01 |
| sdake_ | o/ | 20:02 |
| asalkeld | hi | 20:02 |
| radix | hello :) | 20:02 |
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| m4dcoder | O/ | 20:02 |
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| shardy | hi all :) | 20:02 |
| shardy | #topic Review last week's actions | 20:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Review last week's actions (Meeting topic: heat)" | 20:02 | |
| wirehead_ | Heya | 20:03 |
| kebray | hello | 20:03 |
| TravT | hello! | 20:03 |
| shardy | #info shardy PoC HOT patch | 20:03 |
| shardy | so I did this, but I'm now preferring zaneb's followup patch | 20:03 |
| sdake_ | i prefer zanes as well | 20:03 |
| shardy | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/30405/ | 20:03 |
| shardy | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/30439/ | 20:04 |
| zaneb | I added an item to the agenda to discuss this | 20:04 |
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| kebray | fyi, randallburt is out of office today, not feeling well. | 20:04 |
| shardy | Ok, does anyone *not* think zaneb's approach is the way to go? | 20:04 |
| therve | There seems to be a consensus on the new template class | 20:04 |
| zaneb | I'd like to see some more input on my mailing list post | 20:04 |
| shardy | I like it but it does mean we're committing to keeping the template translation in the engine | 20:04 |
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| asalkeld | shardy eventually we need to move cfn out | 20:05 |
| fsargent | hiya | 20:05 |
| stevebaker | zaneb: the one on file inclusion? | 20:05 |
| asalkeld | so it is a start | 20:05 |
| zaneb | stevebaker: yes | 20:05 |
| zaneb | asalkeld: not sure I agree with your post | 20:06 |
| shardy | asalkeld: yeah, or move the CFNisms into a CFNTemplate class | 20:06 |
| stevebaker | zaneb: I prefer some kind of client-side file aggregation to zipping up template files | 20:06 |
| zaneb | asalkeld: wouldn't it be better to have the engine mechanics independent of the template format? | 20:06 |
| stevebaker | zaneb: tl:dr +1 | 20:06 |
| zaneb | asalkeld: rather than just tying it to HOT instead of CFN | 20:06 |
| asalkeld | no | 20:06 |
| zaneb | lol | 20:06 |
| asalkeld | I think there is still heaps of time to sort it out | 20:07 |
| asalkeld | get this patch in already | 20:07 |
| shardy | zaneb: I really like the idea of decoupling the engine from template details, and just accessing Template class properties | 20:07 |
| SpamapS | i thi k the template format is pretty closely tied to the engi e so this seems fi e | 20:07 |
| zaneb | SpamapS: lost your 'n' key? | 20:08 |
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| sdake_ | time for new keyboard imo ;) | 20:08 |
| shardy | Ok, shall we continue discussions on the ML, and I'll abandon the template-mangle patch? | 20:08 |
| asalkeld | I seriously doubt it is possible for details not leak out | 20:08 |
| stevebaker | SpamapS: broken right thumb? | 20:08 |
| asalkeld | (of the Template class) | 20:08 |
| asalkeld | but we will see | 20:08 |
| therve | Right that doesn't mean we shouldn't try though | 20:09 |
| shardy | if people have specific issues, pls update https://review.openstack.org/#/c/30439/ | 20:09 |
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| zaneb | asalkeld: you may be right. therve: I agree | 20:09 |
| asalkeld | therve, totally think we need both format's in now | 20:09 |
| asalkeld | just whether or not we kick cfn out | 20:10 |
| asalkeld | (of the engine) | 20:10 |
| therve | asalkeld, Agreed. We can improve things as they move on | 20:10 |
| asalkeld | at some later point | 20:10 |
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| zaneb | asalkeld: vote it off the island :) | 20:10 |
| therve | Right now it's a bit too abstract to figure out all the problems we'll encounter | 20:10 |
| asalkeld | yea | 20:10 |
| shardy | asalkeld: I guess we can decide that later :) | 20:10 |
| asalkeld | for sure | 20:10 |
| zaneb | fwiw... | 20:11 |
| zaneb | I think moving from 2 Template classes in engine to cfn translation layer in API is easier than moving from HOT translation layer in API to cfn translation layer in API | 20:11 |
| shardy | zaneb: agree | 20:12 |
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| shardy | Lets get the "superset model" in the engine, then work out where the template transformations live later | 20:12 |
| therve | +1 | 20:12 |
| zaneb | +1 | 20:12 |
| kebray | +1 | 20:12 |
| shardy | #info action asalkeld wiki/bp re infra heat usage | 20:13 |
| asalkeld | (I +2'd it) | 20:13 |
| shardy | IIRC this happened, asalkeld got a link? | 20:13 |
| asalkeld | mmm | 20:13 |
| asalkeld | I can't even remember this | 20:13 |
| asalkeld | wow getting old | 20:13 |
| asalkeld | O, ok - hold on | 20:14 |
| shardy | IIRC you did it immediately after the meeting | 20:14 |
| asalkeld | (it is 6am) | 20:14 |
| sdake_ | use the wiki related links | 20:14 |
| shardy | Ok, lets forget the link and move on :) | 20:14 |
| SpamapS | this was clarkb wanting to use heat for logstash for infra stuff | 20:14 |
| kebray | https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Heat/on-public-clouds | 20:14 |
| kebray | That one? | 20:14 |
| zaneb | I think it was another one | 20:15 |
| asalkeld | that's it | 20:15 |
| shardy | #topic h1 release status | 20:15 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "h1 release status (Meeting topic: heat)" | 20:15 | |
| shardy | so h1 branched today, nice work everyone :) | 20:15 |
| shardy | few things bumped to h2 but most of the stuff planned landed | 20:16 |
| zaneb | I think we sort-of got parallel-launch in :) | 20:16 |
| zaneb | except for nested templates | 20:16 |
| shardy | zaneb: yeah, sorry we didn't manage to get the reviews in for the final few | 20:17 |
| shardy | nice job anyways :) | 20:17 |
| zaneb | np, was a pretty good effort | 20:17 |
| zaneb | so many patches... | 20:17 |
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| therve | shardy, Any highlights on other things that got pushed? | 20:17 |
| * zaneb has fingers crossed for no more rebases | 20:17 | |
| shardy | therve: mainly a few quantum related bugfixes which are in-progress | 20:17 |
| sdake_ | zaneb rebases more fun then java fedora package reviews :) | 20:17 |
| zaneb | sdake_: I'll drink to that | 20:18 |
| shardy | going to be a busy h2 tho by the looks of it :) | 20:18 |
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| zaneb | shardy: 'milestone-proposed' is the branch, I assume? | 20:18 |
| mrutkows | o/ sorry late | 20:18 |
| shardy | #link https://launchpad.net/heat/+milestone/havana-2 | 20:18 |
| shardy | zaneb: yep, then we have couple of days (until tomorrow IIRC) where backported critical fixes can be proposed | 20:19 |
| shardy | before the release is made final | 20:19 |
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| zaneb | weird system, but ok :) | 20:19 |
| shardy | which takes us nicely on to: | 20:19 |
| shardy | #topic 2013.1.2 stable release | 20:20 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "2013.1.2 stable release (Meeting topic: heat)" | 20:20 | |
| shardy | So I'm thinking we skip this as we don't have any backported fixes to grizzly/stable | 20:20 |
| shardy | Does anyone have anything they want to flag as backport-potential? | 20:20 |
| zaneb | +1 for skipping | 20:20 |
| shardy | the main one is the latest-boto v4 signatures thing, but we need keystoneclient release before we can backport that | 20:21 |
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| shardy | (as SpamapS pointed out earlier) | 20:21 |
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| *** stevebaker__ is now known as stevebaker | 20:22 | |
| shardy | So if anyone wants to propose stable backports at any point, see this wiki: | 20:22 |
| shardy | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/StableBranch | 20:22 |
| shardy | #topic heat-core proposed changes | 20:22 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "heat-core proposed changes (Meeting topic: heat)" | 20:22 | |
| shardy | So two things | 20:22 |
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| shardy | firstly, I'm proposing to remove shadower and Slower from heat-core as they're no longer actively contributing/reviewing | 20:23 |
| shardy | here are the stats for the last 90 and 30 days: | 20:23 |
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| shardy | http://fpaste.org/15176/69819561/ | 20:23 |
| shardy | any objections? | 20:23 |
| shardy | obviously we can add them again if they start working on Heat in the future | 20:23 |
| stevebaker | +1 | 20:24 |
| sdake_ | so just to clarify | 20:24 |
| sdake_ | and I agree they should be removed | 20:24 |
| zaneb | interesting, SpamapS is the harshest reviewer :D | 20:24 |
| sdake_ | but what are your criteria for core | 20:24 |
| SpamapS | i didnt even know who they were | 20:24 |
| sdake_ | zaneb: I'd thought you have been :) | 20:24 |
| zaneb | close second ;) | 20:24 |
| shardy | sdake_: so criteria is (IMHO): | 20:24 |
| m4dcoder | What's the requirements to join core? | 20:25 |
| sdake_ | SpamapS they did some early work on heat | 20:25 |
| stevebaker | core membership is for reviews more than anything else | 20:25 |
| shardy | Active reviewer, with consistent and well thought out downvotes (not just +1 on everything) | 20:25 |
| asalkeld | (but helps to code to know the code) | 20:25 |
| shardy | Send some patches which prove you have some familiarity with the codebase and we can assess code-style/ability | 20:25 |
| shardy | Be active in #heat, get to know us/discuss stuff | 20:26 |
| shardy | attend these meetings from time to time and contribute to the discussions | 20:26 |
| shardy | also ideally chime in on openstack-dev Heat related threads | 20:26 |
| asalkeld | looks like therve is getting close | 20:26 |
| shardy | asalkeld: that was going to be my second point! :) | 20:27 |
| shardy | So I'd like to propose therve for heat-core | 20:27 |
| asalkeld | oops, sorry to spoil | 20:27 |
| asalkeld | +1 | 20:27 |
| stevebaker | I think we're keeping up with review load at the moment (HOT template reviews are pulling down our averages ;) ) | 20:27 |
| sdake_ | I think typically projects propose on ml | 20:27 |
| sdake_ | and ppl vote there so there is a record | 20:27 |
| shardy | he's done quite a lot of high-quality reviews lately, sent some nice patches, and has been actively involved day-to-day | 20:27 |
| therve | \o/ | 20:27 |
| zaneb | +1, but I believe this is supposed to happen on the mailing list | 20:28 |
| shardy | sdake_: Yes, we'll do the formal thing on the ML too | 20:28 |
| shardy | just wanted to check there was consensus since we're discussing heat-core anyway | 20:28 |
| sdake_ | need more reviewers definately | 20:28 |
| stevebaker | sounds good to me | 20:28 |
| jpeeler | yep, agreed | 20:28 |
| shardy | Ok, I'll send a propose email to openstack-dev later, please add your response there | 20:29 |
| radix | yay therve :) | 20:29 |
| lifeless | radix: oh hello :) | 20:29 |
| therve | Thanks, I'll try to prove worthy! :) | 20:29 |
| radix | hello :) | 20:29 |
| shardy | Yep, nice work therve, thanks :) | 20:29 |
| shardy | #topic Proposal: add public cloud resource types in-tree | 20:30 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Proposal: add public cloud resource types in-tree (Meeting topic: heat)" | 20:30 | |
| shardy | sdake, was this yours? | 20:30 |
| zaneb | I think it was stevebaker | 20:30 |
| asalkeld | there is a link | 20:30 |
| wirehead_ | There was an IRC discussion on the subject that happened mostly in PST-friendly hours | 20:30 |
| zaneb | so, by in-tree do we mean /contrib? | 20:30 |
| zaneb | if so then +1 | 20:30 |
| asalkeld | zaneb, no in-tree | 20:30 |
| sdake_ | asalkeld's shardy | 20:31 |
| asalkeld | like first class | 20:31 |
| asalkeld | dang, finding link... | 20:31 |
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| sdake_ | its the same link posted above for the action items | 20:31 |
| asalkeld | https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Heat/on-public-clouds#Proposal_to_keep_Public_OpenStack_cloud_resources_in-tree | 20:31 |
| shardy | stevebaker: care to give us a summary of the proposal? | 20:32 |
| stevebaker | <stevebaker> I think we should do what the kernel does, encourage plugins to be in-tree by: | 20:32 |
| asalkeld | so to me important point is: So not every public cloud on the planet, but rather where there are developers that are actively participating in the Heat commutity. | 20:32 |
| stevebaker | 1. not guaranteeing a stable internal api | 20:32 |
| stevebaker | 2. committing to updating in-tree plugins whenever internal api does change | 20:32 |
| asalkeld | I like that stevebaker +1 | 20:33 |
| zaneb | +1 on that | 20:33 |
| stevebaker | it works for the kernel | 20:33 |
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| asalkeld | to me better in tree, than out | 20:33 |
| SpamapS | What exact example of this are we thinking of? | 20:33 |
| sdake_ | kernel has a million maintainers | 20:33 |
| stevebaker | SpamapS: hpcloud and rackspace | 20:33 |
| davidhadas | swift | 20:34 |
| sdake_ | i believe asalkeld's proposal was essentially to put a hpcloud and rackspace at top of resources directory | 20:34 |
| kebray | so, if internal API breaks, there's no guarantee that in-tree resources get updated and will work? Isn't that the argument for them to be out-of-tree? | 20:34 |
| zaneb | otoh we shouldn't be encouraging vendors to have non-compatible OpenStack APIs in the first place | 20:34 |
| shardy | I've got no real objection provided they're actively maintained | 20:34 |
| sdake_ | and let them go wild with a "MAINTAINERS" contact | 20:34 |
| shardy | don't want to ship stuff which is broken ;) | 20:34 |
| SpamapS | stevebaker: but what special sauce would they have that isn't just "openstack" ? | 20:34 |
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| zaneb | kebray: 2. committing to updating in-tree plugins whenever internal api does change | 20:34 |
| wirehead_ | Yeah, if the internal API breaks, we would commit to updating the in-tree resources | 20:34 |
| kebray | zaneb: we all know APIs never change :-) | 20:35 |
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| stevebaker | SpamapS: I would assume that as these public clouds are updated then legacy workarounds could be taken out of our tree | 20:35 |
| davidhadas | swift | 20:35 |
| sdake_ | my only major heartburn with the proposal is we have no way to validate or test it | 20:35 |
| davidhadas | (sorry) | 20:35 |
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| asalkeld | sdake_ they can add special mocks | 20:35 |
| stevebaker | sdake, I'd like the tempest tests to be run against different clouds | 20:35 |
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| shardy | ideally, those contributing these would provide provider-agnostic resources in the main resources area | 20:36 |
| shardy | can anyone explain some of the reasons for provider-specific resources? | 20:36 |
| wirehead_ | Hacks. | 20:36 |
| asalkeld | weird auth | 20:36 |
| sdake_ | no cloudinit | 20:36 |
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| zaneb | +1 for hacks. +2 for putting them in /contrib | 20:36 |
| SpamapS | stevebaker: I guess I'm missing where they need any special "not openstack" things right now. :-P | 20:36 |
| asalkeld | and limited implementations? | 20:36 |
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| kebray | rackspace images don't have cloudinit on them today. | 20:36 |
| SpamapS | No cloud-init has its genesis in rackspace, but it could very well be something that other private cloud operators do... | 20:37 |
| asalkeld | so shardy my hope is these are short lived | 20:37 |
| sdake_ | rackspace also has no way to upload images - so there is no real workaround without rs specific hacks to resources | 20:37 |
| asalkeld | sdake_ yea, you have to modify an existing one and "save" it | 20:38 |
| SpamapS | sdake_: HP is the same. | 20:38 |
| shardy | Ok, not having cloud-init sounds pretty limiting to me, but if that's the status-quo then I guess we go with the hacks dir :) | 20:38 |
| wirehead_ | I think that the hacks related to simple things like getting images up will hopefully go away, but there's always going to be some potential for vendor-specific magic stuff | 20:38 |
| sdake_ | just see a future where there are 20 server plugins, 20 storage plugins, 20 different type of quantum plugins etc | 20:38 |
| sdake_ | becomes especially intrusive if we change around the dsl | 20:38 |
| kebray | The workaround is snapshot an image, since you can't upload. | 20:38 |
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| SpamapS | I don't see this as hacks, but just drivers. | 20:38 |
| asalkeld | sdake to me worse if they are out of tree | 20:39 |
| asalkeld | (we then need much stronger api versioning) | 20:39 |
| shardy | Ok, do we need to start a ML discussion on this? | 20:39 |
| SpamapS | Yes agreed, in-tree drivers will stay more useful to more people. | 20:39 |
| wirehead_ | Do we need to specify more carefully how it would look, so that people can be comfortable with exactly how it's split up? | 20:39 |
| asalkeld | me thinking it would make infra's life easier | 20:40 |
| stevebaker | lets decide when the first patch lands | 20:40 |
| wirehead_ | We're mostly nodding in agreement about the base principles. | 20:40 |
| shardy | Ok, well lets move on for now, and if necessary follow up on the ML | 20:40 |
| shardy | #topic Proposal (sdake): For [rs-dsl] or [open-api-dsl] require +2 from asalkeld, jpeeler, sdake, stevebaker, zaneb with +A from shardy | 20:40 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Proposal (sdake): For [rs-dsl] or [open-api-dsl] require +2 from asalkeld, jpeeler, sdake, stevebaker, zaneb with +A from shardy (Meeting topic: heat)" | 20:40 | |
| sdake_ | (and therve possibly:) | 20:41 |
| asalkeld | ? | 20:41 |
| sdake_ | so basic idea here is since dsl is huge change to everything in heat | 20:41 |
| sdake_ | and we have to live with it | 20:41 |
| sdake_ | we should all express our agreement in the patch | 20:41 |
| sdake_ | vs just couple core devs | 20:41 |
| SpamapS | Perhaps we just call it a "majority" of devs need to weigh in with +2's? | 20:42 |
| zaneb | agree with the rationale | 20:42 |
| shardy | So I think this may be a bit hard to manage, I agree everything should be well reviewed but will this make the review cycle unmanageble? | 20:42 |
| sdake_ | personally I think the new dsl is pretty sweet | 20:42 |
| asalkeld | mm, so how do you figure out if a patch is dsl affecting | 20:42 |
| SpamapS | I don't want to set a precedent that we all have to agree or even review big decisions. | 20:42 |
| sdake_ | only for the "first" patch that lands shardy | 20:42 |
| zaneb | however, I don't think we should be committing the "end-state" DSL example at all | 20:42 |
| zaneb | we should have an example template that evolves with the code | 20:43 |
| SpamapS | But I do like the idea that we would step back and not "approve" until at least half of the core team has said +2. | 20:43 |
| shardy | zaneb: I completely agree, incremental evolution | 20:43 |
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| asalkeld | is this for the heat-template patch or code in heat? | 20:43 |
| zaneb | asalkeld: I think we're talking about the patch | 20:43 |
| sdake_ | asalkeld: read the agenda - there are links there | 20:43 |
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| zaneb | I personally don't see the patch as something that will ever be committed | 20:44 |
| therve | As long as we do incremental changes, I don't think there is much to fear about the end result being disliked. | 20:44 |
| shardy | Ok, well shall we say that people posting HOT/DSL related patches should add all heat-core to the reviewers list, and that we (heat-core) will make sure things are reviewed by several (more than 2) reviewers before approving? | 20:44 |
| zaneb | it's just using Gerrit as a discussion tool | 20:44 |
| shardy | I don't need to be the only one to approve IMO | 20:44 |
| zaneb | I can -2 now to save time? ;) | 20:44 |
| therve | We should probably all pay slightly more attention to those I presume | 20:44 |
| kebray | As long as the templates are properly versioned, can't we manage having a rapidly changing (lightweight review) template format in the short run? that is, we only need to be backwards compatible with the version that yes stamped every 6 months, right? | 20:45 |
| zaneb | shardy: +1 | 20:45 |
| zaneb | kebray: correct | 20:45 |
| shardy | therve: Yep, we can just agree to give extra attention (and time) for everyone to get a look at stuff before it's merged | 20:45 |
| therve | shardy, In practice how does gerrit support it? | 20:45 |
| stevebaker | shardy: +1 | 20:45 |
| sdake_ | kebray as long as they are forward compatible... | 20:45 |
| zaneb | I think everyone acknowledges there's a higher bar for consensus when implementing major features | 20:45 |
| stevebaker | an example template is just an expression of intent though | 20:46 |
| asalkeld | not a spec | 20:46 |
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| sdake_ | so to zaneb's point about not approving the changes, shardy should we banhammer the patch so folks dont inadvertantly merge it ? | 20:47 |
| asalkeld | sdake why not merge it and work on it? | 20:47 |
| * stevebaker has to go | 20:47 | |
| shardy | sdake_: I guess, but has anyone ever accidentally approved something? | 20:47 |
| sdake_ | zaneb's idea ;) | 20:47 |
| asalkeld | instead of letting it hang | 20:47 |
| zaneb | shardy: I accidentally approved something the other day ;) | 20:48 |
| shardy | asalkeld: Idea is just to get eyes on the patch before we merge something half the team hate ;) | 20:48 |
| * sdake_ admits to +2 +A without another +2 recently... groan | 20:48 | |
| shardy | zaneb: lol | 20:48 |
| asalkeld | shardy, sure | 20:48 |
| asalkeld | but, we can iterate as well | 20:48 |
| clarkb | if you catch yourself before jenkins finishes testing you can remove your +A to prevent merging | 20:48 |
| sdake_ | clarkb ya i did catch it quickly | 20:49 |
| sdake_ | and fixed it fortunately :) | 20:49 |
| shardy | Ok, well shall we just handle this informally, if there's a patch anyone reviews which they thing is suitably contentious, -2 it and make sure we get consensus before merge | 20:49 |
| zaneb | clarkb: I didn't want to be that obvious ;) | 20:49 |
| sdake_ | zaneb never makes mistakess ;) | 20:49 |
| shardy | Fpr obviously OK and simple/small stuff, we use the normal process of 2x+2 | 20:49 |
| sdake_ | shardy : i think for most things that makes sense, the dsl is a special case tho | 20:50 |
| asalkeld | shardy, you mean for everything else? | 20:50 |
| shardy | I think we can all be trusted with this stuff, but I do agree we should all be extra active reviewing it | 20:50 |
| therve | Let's not be afraid of reverts too if that needs to happen. | 20:50 |
| shardy | asalkeld: I think we're just saying for big DSL changes | 20:51 |
| asalkeld | good | 20:51 |
| SpamapS | 9 minutes | 20:51 |
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| shardy | I've got no desire to extend the review cycle unnecessarily | 20:51 |
| sdake_ | in fact first one would be good enough to satisfy me :) | 20:51 |
| sdake_ | after that iterate + normal process | 20:51 |
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| shardy | #topic How/where to handle HOT in the code | 20:51 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "How/where to handle HOT in the code (Meeting topic: heat)" | 20:51 | |
| shardy | So shall we skip this and go to open discussion? | 20:52 |
| shardy | since we really covered it earlier? | 20:52 |
| zaneb | shardy: yep, we've done that to death | 20:52 |
| shardy | #topic Open discussion | 20:52 |
| sdake_ | i do have one quesiton | 20:52 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: heat)" | 20:52 | |
| asalkeld | initial Environment patch: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/30866/ | 20:52 |
| zaneb | sdake_: too late ;) | 20:52 |
| sdake_ | the open-dsl vs hot - are they competing proposals? | 20:52 |
| fsargent | Do y'all have Rackspace accounts yet? How is it going? | 20:52 |
| fsargent | If not: http://iopenedthecloud.com/ | 20:53 |
| zaneb | sdake_: no, they're different names for the same general effort | 20:53 |
| asalkeld | thanks fsargent | 20:53 |
| shardy | sdake_: No, we're trying to converge on a native syntax which pleases all those who want a non-cfn template model | 20:53 |
| sdake_ | fsargent I applied but no email yet | 20:53 |
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| fsargent | okay, I'll knock some heads together. | 20:53 |
| zaneb | fsargent: I have the t-shirt, but not the account yet | 20:53 |
| asalkeld | ha | 20:53 |
| wirehead_ | Have the t-shirt, not the account. That's a metaphor for something | 20:53 |
| sdake_ | zaneb afraid to go over his 500 mo limit ;) | 20:54 |
| asalkeld | fsargent, can we get a racks server resource? | 20:54 |
| shardy | asalkeld: nice, will review in the morning :) | 20:54 |
| wirehead_ | racks server resource? | 20:54 |
| asalkeld | a resource that starts a rackspace server | 20:54 |
| kebray | racks server, LBaaS, and DBaaS resources for Heat are in the works. | 20:54 |
| kebray | asalkeld: my team is working it right now. | 20:54 |
| asalkeld | I just need the server | 20:55 |
| asalkeld | (alpha?) | 20:55 |
| kebray | Yep.. well, I need all 3 :-) | 20:55 |
| sdake_ | in h2 the nova resources are changing | 20:55 |
| sdake_ | so keep that in mind - may hav eto do a bit of rework on your end | 20:55 |
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| shardy | kebray: feel free to post WIP/draft patches or a fork somewhere, so we can see what you're doing :) | 20:55 |
| asalkeld | +1 | 20:55 |
| kebray | sdake_ don't care about Nova changes, as long as the resource implementation doesn't change. it'll be one of the vendor specific resources for now. | 20:56 |
| SpamapS | small patches that work ho-hum are better than giant patches that "work fine in my rack" | 20:56 |
| shardy | 4 minutes, anything else? | 20:56 |
| zaneb | random interesting thing I discovered today | 20:56 |
| zaneb | #link http://www.pulpproject.org/ | 20:56 |
| kebray | Yeah, been wondering where the team should dump code.. sort of waiting for the in-tree vs. just stack forge discussion to settle. | 20:56 |
| zaneb | in the context of https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Heat/htr | 20:56 |
| zaneb | apparently puppet are using it for their manifests repo | 20:57 |
| zaneb | that is all. | 20:57 |
| SpamapS | meh | 20:57 |
| * SpamapS hugs his image based update dreams tightly. | 20:57 | |
| asalkeld | har | 20:57 |
| sdake_ | shardy the "only run non-aws templates" wasn't in the h2 milestone | 20:58 |
| * kebray hands SpamapS a copy of Good to Great. | 20:58 | |
| sdake_ | the blueprint spamaps wrote up | 20:58 |
| shardy | sdake_: the open-api-dsl is the umbrella BP, targetted at h3 | 20:58 |
| sdake_ | we may need that for nova-server blueprint | 20:58 |
| shardy | as we have a load of dependent BPs targeted at h2, most of which have not even been started | 20:58 |
| shardy | which is a bit worrying | 20:59 |
| shardy | but anyway, out of time | 20:59 |
| wirehead_ | kebray: I haven't heard any major partisan fans of the stack forge approach. We can negative-vote to say that the rackspace resource ought to live in-tree | 20:59 |
| shardy | #endmeeting | 20:59 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meetings" | 20:59 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed May 29 20:59:15 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 20:59 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/heat/2013/heat.2013-05-29-20.00.html | 20:59 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/heat/2013/heat.2013-05-29-20.00.txt | 20:59 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/heat/2013/heat.2013-05-29-20.00.log.html | 20:59 |
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| SpamapS | ty everyone | 20:59 |
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| wirehead_ | Thx | 20:59 |
| shardy | thanks all! | 20:59 |
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| therve | Thanks! | 20:59 |
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