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| nijaba | #startmeeting Ceilometer | 15:00 |
|---|---|---|
| nijaba | #meetingtopic Ceilometer | 15:00 |
| nijaba | #chair nijaba | 15:00 |
| nijaba | #link http://wiki.openstack.org/Meetings/MeteringAgenda | 15:00 |
| nijaba | ATTENTION: please keep discussion focused on topic until we reach the open discussion topic | 15:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Thu Feb 21 15:00:31 2013 UTC. The chair is nijaba. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 15:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 15:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: Ceilometer)" | 15:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'ceilometer' | 15:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: Ceilometer)" | 15:00 | |
| openstack | Current chairs: nijaba | 15:00 |
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| nijaba | Hello everyone! Show of hands, who is around for the ceilometer meeting? | 15:00 |
| nijaba | o/ | 15:00 |
| dhellmann | o/ | 15:00 |
| eglynn | o1 | 15:00 |
| yjiang5 | o/ | 15:00 |
| llu-laptop | o/ | 15:00 |
| eglynn | o/ | 15:00 |
| n0ano | o/ | 15:00 |
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| jd__ | o/ | 15:01 |
| nijaba | good to see everyone! | 15:01 |
| nijaba | #topic actions from previous meeting | 15:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "actions from previous meeting (Meeting topic: Ceilometer)" | 15:01 | |
| nijaba | #topic dhellman to update documentation based on http://wiki.openstack.org/Ceilometer/Units | 15:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "dhellman to update documentation based on http://wiki.openstack.org/Ceilometer/Units (Meeting topic: Ceilometer)" | 15:01 | |
| nijaba | I know this was done and mergedm, thanks dhellmann! | 15:01 |
| nijaba | #info done | 15:01 |
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| nijaba | anything to add on the topic? | 15:02 |
| dhellmann | nope | 15:02 |
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| nijaba | That was it for last week's action, then | 15:02 |
| nijaba | #topic graduatiion status | 15:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "graduatiion status (Meeting topic: Ceilometer)" | 15:02 | |
| nijaba | So the TC graduated heat last week, and started on Ceilometer but did not have time to complete. So the vote will be next week. | 15:02 |
| nijaba | Comments? | 15:02 |
| eglynn | #link http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2013/tc.2013-02-19-20.02.log.html | 15:02 |
| jd__ | no comment | 15:02 |
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| eglynn | I wasn't too impressed with the "I'm ready to vote now" comment TBH | 15:03 |
| nijaba | do you think we need to change something in what we prepared so far? | 15:03 |
| dhellmann | eglynn did a great job answering questions as our point man during the meeting | 15:03 |
| sandywalsh | o/ | 15:03 |
| nijaba | thanks eglynn for taking the lead on this | 15:03 |
| Pete_ | o/ | 15:03 |
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| eglynn | np! | 15:03 |
| jd__ | yeah good job eglynn | 15:03 |
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| eglynn | so I was chatting a bit with asalkeld on the phone yesterday about this | 15:03 |
| sandywalsh | I think the meeting went fine and they just ran out of time. | 15:04 |
| eglynn | he had the idea that we should brainstorm a FAQ for likely questions that may come up in the next meeting | 15:04 |
| nijaba | sandywalsh: that was my feeling reading the backlog | 15:04 |
| dhellmann | sandywalsh: yeah, we expedted as much because they shifted to going serial | 15:04 |
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| dhellmann | eglynn, asalkeld: good idea | 15:04 |
| dhellmann | OTOH, some of those questions seemed to come out of left field | 15:05 |
| jd__ | eglynn: why not, though I'm not sure we're going to have a lot of question now | 15:05 |
| eglynn | jd__: yep fair point | 15:05 |
| nijaba | so let's start an faq on the same wiki page we used so far? | 15:05 |
| sandywalsh | dhellmann, the "a little bird told me" re: billing seemed a little out of place | 15:05 |
| eglynn | +1 | 15:05 |
| dhellmann | sandywalsh: ? | 15:05 |
| sandywalsh | there was some comment about applicability to billing | 15:06 |
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| dhellmann | ah, yeah | 15:06 |
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| dhellmann | there did seem to be some confusion there | 15:06 |
| nijaba | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Ceilometer/Graduation | 15:06 |
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| eglynn | so one other thing is the approach of linking to a wiki with a fair bit of dense text | 15:06 |
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| dhellmann | I get the idea most of the TC hasn't actually been paying super close attention to our project. Which is fair enough, they have their own, projects. But we need to make sure our message is clear on what we've built and what it's for. | 15:07 |
| * eglynn suspects some of TC members doidn't have time to read it all in tandem with participating in the discussion | 15:07 | |
| nijaba | dhellmann: agreed | 15:07 |
| eglynn | it all == the graduation wiki | 15:07 |
| sandywalsh | dhellmann, eglynn +1 | 15:07 |
| jd__ | dhellmann, eglynn +1 | 15:07 |
| jd__ | that's what I think this process is kind of weird, but eh… | 15:07 |
| nijaba | eglynn: last time I copy/pasted the texte into the irc chan | 15:07 |
| jd__ | s/what/why/ | 15:07 |
| dhellmann | eglynn: indeed. perhaps we can translated it into some bumper-sticker sized statements? | 15:07 |
| russellb | perhaps an email with the graduation wiki early in the day of the meeting would be good | 15:07 |
| russellb | that'd remind me to go read it and be fresh ahead of the meeting and discussion | 15:08 |
| nijaba | russellb: nice idea too | 15:08 |
| llu-laptop | dhellmann: +1 for bumper-sticker sized statements | 15:08 |
| nijaba | you know how I love for people to take #action :) | 15:09 |
| eglynn | dhellmann: yep that would make sense ... also add an easily disgestible (future) architecture diagram that can taken in at a glance | 15:09 |
| maksimov | what date is the next TC? | 15:09 |
| dhellmann | russellb: +1 | 15:09 |
| nijaba | who want to have a go at the FAQ? | 15:09 |
| nijaba | at he bumber sticker statements? | 15:09 |
| eglynn | I can do it | 15:09 |
| russellb | maksimov: Tuesday | 15:09 |
| sandywalsh | eglynn, I think that's a better approach. A quick overview of architecture, highlighting where the major design discussions are talking place. | 15:09 |
| maksimov | russellb: ty | 15:09 |
| nijaba | eglynn: is that the FAQ | 15:09 |
| eglynn | well both I guess | 15:10 |
| sandywalsh | and, I'm a big fan of visuals/video | 15:10 |
| eglynn | if we're agreed that's the way to go ... | 15:10 |
| dhellmann | I have a new architecture diagram that I'm using in my pycon presentation, I'll add it to the wiki | 15:10 |
| eglynn | cool | 15:10 |
| jd__ | is it me or I don't have the impression Heat did so much effort to convince :) | 15:10 |
| dhellmann | #action dhellmann add new architecture diagram to wiki | 15:10 |
| nijaba | dhellmann: neat | 15:10 |
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| eglynn | #action eglynn add bumper-sticker statements to wiki | 15:11 |
| sandywalsh | I think we may be over thinking this and reading more into the delay than is really there. It was just due to time constraints. I think we're well on track. | 15:11 |
| dhellmann | jd__: as eglynn pointed out, at least one member seems predisposed against us. | 15:11 |
| jd__ | sandywalsh: I agree | 15:11 |
| jd__ | that's my impression too as I hear you all! :) | 15:11 |
| nijaba | jd__: +1 | 15:11 |
| jd__ | dhellmann: that's the one that voted against Heat too, that doesn't surprise me | 15:11 |
| dhellmann | jd__: right | 15:12 |
| eglynn | yeap | 15:12 |
| jd__ | we aren't going to win this vote, let's move on ;) | 15:12 |
| jd__ | s/this/his/ :) | 15:12 |
| sandywalsh | what's his objection? | 15:12 |
| nijaba | jd__: I think he'd vote no to anything anyway | 15:12 |
| * russellb also thinks you're well on track fwiw :) | 15:12 | |
| jd__ | nijaba: ya read my mind | 15:12 |
| dhellmann | russellb: thanks! | 15:12 |
| * nijaba notes to write check to russellb ;) | 15:13 | |
| jd__ | so let's not panic, enhance and polish things a bit and we're in :) | 15:13 |
| jd__ | nijaba: shhhht! | 15:13 |
| dhellmann | jd__: +1 | 15:13 |
| eglynn | so beyond the improvements to the wiki discussed, any other prep we need to do prior to the TC meeting next week? | 15:13 |
| jd__ | push-ups? | 15:14 |
| nijaba | #action nijaba to send a graduation email to the tc ml a few hours before the meeting, inviting to read the wiki | 15:14 |
| sandywalsh | Perhaps ensure the BP's are on track for the release and the bug count is manageable | 15:14 |
| sandywalsh | clean up any cruft in the pipe | 15:14 |
| nijaba | #action jd__ to do 50 push-ups before the tc meeting | 15:14 |
| eglynn | makes sense | 15:14 |
| sandywalsh | underpromise overdeliver ... nice solide release | 15:15 |
| dhellmann | sandywalsh: good ideas | 15:15 |
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| sandywalsh | *solid | 15:15 |
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| dhellmann | nijaba: how *are* we doing with blueprints? | 15:15 |
| nijaba | dhellmann: next topic ;) | 15:15 |
| notmyname | sandywalsh: his objection is that he's read claims that the metering is for billing info but the design seems to be for monitoring data. design-wise, you can't do billing usage info unless is can be recreated at a later arbitrary date from authoritative data (ie, you can't replay requests) | 15:15 |
| * dhellmann waits patiently | 15:15 | |
| sandywalsh | notmyname, gotcha ... we're adding all the stuff needed for SEC-compliant billing. It's a must have for us. Including double-entry accounting (which would include replay) | 15:16 |
| nijaba | notmyname: thanks for the insight | 15:16 |
| sandywalsh | notmyname, we do it now in stacktach and need to move all that functionality to CM | 15:17 |
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| nealph | notmyname: not sure if that equals a comment on underlying design or the robustness of implementation... | 15:17 |
| notmyname | I don't know what double-entry accounting in the context of API requests is, but my general point is that 6 month's from now when I contest my bill, you can't reply all my 5GB PUTs to swift in order to get usage info | 15:17 |
| nijaba | sandywalsh: non repudiation has been part of the req for ceilometer since day1, and transport is somewhat secured | 15:17 |
| notmyname | also, emitting events to the network in the request flow seems frail (likely to lose events) as opposed to looking at log messages | 15:18 |
| jd__ | notmyname: I'll be able to tell you exactly when, what and where you PUT things with what size as it is implemented now | 15:19 |
| sandywalsh | notmyname, very true, swift is certainly the elephant in the room. We're working with some of the logging-as-a-service guys to find a way to merge the two. | 15:19 |
| eglynn | notmyname: is there a specific AMQP message-loss scenario you're concerned with? | 15:19 |
| notmyname | sandywalsh: and of course swift is the part I'm thinking about most :-) | 15:20 |
| sandywalsh | notmyname, we're hoping to use some of the UDP broadcasts as the secondary validation, but logging is the prime source. Not all those notifications will go directly into CM (i don't think) | 15:20 |
| sandywalsh | notmyname, absolutely, it's the largest scale component of the problem. Chuck schooled us on the volumes you're dealing with. :) | 15:21 |
| nijaba | ok, I guess the point is well noted now. Shall we move on? | 15:21 |
| dhellmann | +1 | 15:22 |
| jd__ | let's go | 15:22 |
| nijaba | #topic preparing for rc1 | 15:22 |
| notmyname | :-) | 15:22 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "preparing for rc1 (Meeting topic: Ceilometer)" | 15:22 | |
| nijaba | o today the g3 milestone proposed branch was created by ttx. He will turn it into grizzly-3 at the end of the day unless we push a bug to the grizzly-3 buglist. (let's hope not) | 15:22 |
| nijaba | I had to push back on 3 blueprints though. One of them being mostly a test (qpid) I automatically granted it an exception for rc1 | 15:22 |
| nijaba | We now have to vote on the other 2 for a Feature Freeze exception. Emails were sent earlier for both on the Mailing list. | 15:22 |
| nijaba | bp #1: hbase backend | 15:22 |
| nijaba | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2013-February/005911.html | 15:22 |
| sandywalsh | notmyname, would love to chat with you more about this ... it's a very important aspect of the solution. | 15:22 |
| eglynn | I'm currently working on the qpid testing task | 15:23 |
| nijaba | so, it looks to me like we are really close to a merge here, so I think it would be fair to grant an ffe for rc1 | 15:23 |
| maksimov | can i vote? :-) | 15:23 |
| nijaba | anyone would like to have a formal vote? | 15:23 |
| nijaba | or should we just grant the exception? | 15:24 |
| eglynn | any need, are there objections? | 15:24 |
| jd__ | I don't mind | 15:24 |
| jd__ | I didn't review the code but since it's just an optional backend storage, I see no reason to refuse it | 15:24 |
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| llu-laptop | no objection. | 15:24 |
| nijaba | waitaing 20 second | 15:24 |
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| eglynn | yea by acclamation! | 15:24 |
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| llu-laptop | b.t.w. Is maksimov and Minjie Shen(BP asignee) the same person? | 15:25 |
| nijaba | #agreed ffe granted for hbase backend to be delivered in rc1 | 15:25 |
| maksimov | Shengjie Min :-) | 15:25 |
| maksimov | nope | 15:25 |
| nijaba | llu-laptop: good question ;) | 15:25 |
| maksimov | two people | 15:25 |
| jd__ | llu-laptop: /whois :) | 15:25 |
| nijaba | working together? | 15:25 |
| maksimov | yep | 15:25 |
| nijaba | sounded like it | 15:25 |
| nijaba | moving on to next bp | 15:25 |
| nijaba | bp #2 : publisher counters frequency | 15:25 |
| nijaba | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2013-February/005912.html | 15:25 |
| maksimov | woohoo | 15:26 |
| nijaba | same status, afaict | 15:26 |
| nijaba | any objections to the exception? | 15:26 |
| eglynn | nope | 15:26 |
| llu-laptop | nope either | 15:26 |
| jd__ | nop | 15:26 |
| dhellmann | no objection to an exception | 15:26 |
| dhellmann | although I opened 3 blueprints with ideas for cleaning things up after that change lands | 15:27 |
| nijaba | #agreed ffe granted for publisher counters fequency to be delivered in rc1 | 15:27 |
| dhellmann | one would be a backwards-incompatible change to the plugin api, so we need to spend time thinking about how long we are going to support plugin apis like that | 15:27 |
| dhellmann | we can do that later -- I expect we'll treat it like any other api | 15:27 |
| nijaba | fyi, here is what we are delivering in g3: | 15:29 |
| nijaba | #link https://launchpad.net/ceilometer/+milestone/grizzly-3 | 15:29 |
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| nijaba | great job everyone! | 15:29 |
| dhellmann | nice list! | 15:29 |
| nijaba | here is what's in store for rc1: | 15:30 |
| nijaba | #link https://launchpad.net/ceilometer/+milestone/grizzly-rc1 | 15:30 |
| nijaba | I hope weĺl all do a lot of testing on g3 to make sure we have a rock solid rc1 | 15:30 |
| eglynn | our second bug squashing day is coming up soon, right? | 15:30 |
| dhellmann | yes, we should also look hard at our test coverage | 15:31 |
| nijaba | march 4th. | 15:31 |
| yjiang5 | nijaba: when will the tree open for the ffe patches? | 15:31 |
| nijaba | err, march 5th | 15:31 |
| dhellmann | #info bug squash day scheduled for March 5th | 15:32 |
| nijaba | yjiang5: it stays open as trunk. we just branched of g3 | 15:32 |
| yjiang5 | nijaba: got it. | 15:32 |
| yjiang5 | dhellmann: Possibly we need enable the code coverage? | 15:33 |
| nijaba | note that core dev should STOP accepting any new feature for which an exception has not been granted. we should be in bug fix only mode now | 15:33 |
| dhellmann | yjiang5: I think there is a tox configuration for it, but jenkins is not using it | 15:33 |
| nijaba | #info core dev should STOP accepting any new feature for which an exception has not been granted. we should be in bug fix only mode now | 15:33 |
| dhellmann | nijaba: that's for trunk? | 15:33 |
| yjiang5 | dhellmann: ok, so that's same for all openstack project, right? | 15:34 |
| dhellmann | or the pre-release branch? | 15:34 |
| nijaba | dhellmann: I believe so, yes | 15:34 |
| dhellmann | yjiang5: I'm not sure | 15:34 |
| dhellmann | nijaba: ok, thanks for clarifying | 15:34 |
| yjiang5 | dhellmann: I remember the truck is freeze till RC1? | 15:34 |
| nijaba | ttx: around to clarify? | 15:34 |
| eglynn | the pre-release branch == milestone-proposed ? | 15:34 |
| dhellmann | eglynn: yeah, that's what I meant | 15:34 |
| * ttx reads | 15:34 | |
| dhellmann | I wasn't sure if we'd branched to milestone-proposed for the release, or if trunk was going to become the release and we had to be more careful there. | 15:35 |
| eglynn | IIRC milestone-proposed is usually cut just days before the upcoming release | 15:35 |
| ttx | yeah, feature freeze applies until rc1 is produced | 15:35 |
| dhellmann | ok | 15:35 |
| ttx | at which point master branch opens for havana development | 15:35 |
| ttx | and we pray that we don't need an rc2 | 15:35 |
| nijaba | thanks ttx!! | 15:35 |
| ttx | (and fail) | 15:35 |
| dhellmann | got it, thanks ttx | 15:35 |
| * nijaba prays the gods of free and open bits | 15:36 | |
| ttx | https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Release_Cycle | 15:36 |
| eglynn | what's the approx date for RC1? | 15:36 |
| nijaba | I think dhellmann wanted to bring something else up on the rc1 topic, but can't remmeber what | 15:36 |
| nijaba | eglynn: march 14th | 15:37 |
| dhellmann | nijaba: the nova notifier bug, but there's a solution for that in process now | 15:37 |
| nijaba | see https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Ceilometer#Project agenda | 15:37 |
| nijaba | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Ceilometer#Project_Agenda | 15:38 |
| nijaba | ok, anything else on the rc1 topic? | 15:38 |
| dhellmann | not here | 15:38 |
| yjiang5 | Is it possible to add test case in rc1? | 15:38 |
| nijaba | yjiang5: I think so, yes | 15:38 |
| yjiang5 | according to the Release_Cycle URL, only bug fixing allowed :) | 15:38 |
| dhellmann | yjiang5: yes, we need to improve our test coverage | 15:38 |
| llu-laptop | yjiang5: unittest case? | 15:39 |
| jd__ | more tests? sure | 15:39 |
| dhellmann | tests aren't production code | 15:39 |
| jd__ | but passing tests only! | 15:39 |
| nijaba | jd__: lol | 15:39 |
| maksimov | :) | 15:39 |
| yjiang5 | jd__: : ) | 15:39 |
| dhellmann | jd__: also useful tests only ;-) | 15:39 |
| llu-laptop | yjiang5: or tempest? | 15:39 |
| jd__ | right :) | 15:39 |
| yjiang5 | llu-laptop: Yes, posslble tempest | 15:39 |
| jd__ | would be great | 15:39 |
| eglynn | so the lack of tempest coverage was brought up at the first TC meeting | 15:39 |
| eglynn | (1st meeting to consider graduation that is ...) | 15:40 |
| eglynn | so yeah, that would be good | 15:40 |
| dhellmann | yes, it would help protect us against incompatible changes in the parts of other projects we depend on | 15:40 |
| nijaba | hehe | 15:41 |
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| dhellmann | notification formats, rpc serialization changes, etc. | 15:41 |
| eglynn | a couple of reverts today on the RPC side | 15:41 |
| nijaba | yup | 15:41 |
| dhellmann | oh? | 15:41 |
| eglynn | eagle-eyes from markmc ... | 15:41 |
| eglynn | reverted first in olso, but we'd already sync'd up with the change | 15:42 |
| llu-laptop | patch 22543 and 22544, but don't know the story behind the revert. | 15:43 |
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| eglynn | risky changes to the RPC envelope format IIRC | 15:43 |
| dhellmann | eglynn: thanks for pointing those out, I'll revert them in our code, too | 15:43 |
| ttx | nijaba: unless you place a bug on the grizzly-3 list in the next 5 hours, i'll go on and publish g3 as-is. | 15:44 |
| eglynn | already done | 15:44 |
| dhellmann | ah, ok | 15:44 |
| * dhellmann is behind on email | 15:44 | |
| eglynn | (by markmc) | 15:44 |
| nijaba | ttx: ack | 15:44 |
| jd__ | tictac | 15:44 |
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| nijaba | ok, looks like we are done on this topic | 15:45 |
| nijaba | #topic Open Discussion | 15:45 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: Ceilometer)" | 15:45 | |
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| nijaba | anything, anyone? | 15:45 |
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| nijaba | tired? | 15:46 |
| yjiang5 | I possibly have not much network access and development access in next one and half weeks | 15:46 |
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| nijaba | yjiang5: going sailing? | 15:46 |
| eglynn | new year? | 15:46 |
| yjiang5 | no, I'm relocating, and my development machine will be packaged and shift. | 15:47 |
| nijaba | yjiang5: where to, if thatś not a secret? | 15:47 |
| eglynn | 'course new year that was a few weeks ago ... | 15:47 |
| llu-laptop | dhellman: yjiang5 would be in the same tz with yuu | 15:47 |
| yjiang5 | eglynn: We just finished chinese new year. CNY. | 15:47 |
| llu-laptop | s/yuu/you/ | 15:47 |
| yjiang5 | yes, I will go to california, and same tz with dhellmann. | 15:47 |
| nijaba | yjiang5: going to portland or sc? | 15:47 |
| dhellmann | yjiang5: no, I'm on the east coast | 15:48 |
| dhellmann | closer though | 15:48 |
| yjiang5 | sc | 15:48 |
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| nijaba | yjiang5: nice!! | 15:48 |
| dhellmann | dreamhost is in LA, but I'm remote | 15:48 |
| dhellmann | Georgia | 15:48 |
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| yjiang5 | dhellmann: got it. | 15:48 |
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| dhellmann | still, closer! :-) | 15:48 |
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| dhellmann | so about the backwards-incompatible change to the plugins…how do people feel about that? is that a rc1 change or havana? | 15:49 |
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| dhellmann | it's not really a new feature, but it would be a big change | 15:49 |
| yjiang5 | dhellmann: you mean the one of 1counter 1 pollster? | 15:49 |
| dhellmann | yes | 15:49 |
| jd__ | I am pretty sure almost nobody wrote external plugins, so I don't care that much about compat at this point | 15:49 |
| * nijaba would tend to think havanah... | 15:49 | |
| eglynn | are there any "external" plugins in existence? | 15:50 |
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| eglynn | (that we know of ...) | 15:50 |
| dhellmann | jd__: that's what I was thinking. If we wait for havana, we have to support the api. if we change it now can we get away with not doing that? | 15:50 |
| dhellmann | eglynn: I have one here at dreamhost, but I can change it | 15:50 |
| nijaba | yolanda was writing one, I think | 15:50 |
| yjiang5 | I'm not sure if we really need take that way, can we have more discussion on it? | 15:50 |
| nijaba | yjiang5: discussion is ALWAYS welcome | 15:50 |
| jd__ | dhellmann: if the API wasn't released with Folsom, I think we can do whatever we want from my point of view | 15:50 |
| dhellmann | yjiang5: we can, but we do need to get rid of that O(n^3) configuration loop and I think further simplifying the API gives us part of that along with some other nice benefits. | 15:51 |
| dhellmann | jd__: we did have pollsters, but I don't think we were very formal about supporting that API. I wasn't sure if our incubation status changed the rules on that. | 15:51 |
| yjiang5 | but also lose some flexibility. | 15:51 |
| dhellmann | yjiang5: I don't think we lose anything that we can't achieve in another way. | 15:51 |
| jd__ | dhellmann: I'm waiting to see people with that API used | 15:52 |
| dhellmann | the abstraction is wrong right now, because I thought we would want to turn off sets of counters, not individual counters | 15:52 |
| dhellmann | jd__: yeah, it's better to change it early and let it settle | 15:52 |
| eglynn | if we're sure it needs to be changed, seems best to do that before G is tied down | 15:52 |
| dhellmann | I'm sure. I guess I still need to convince yjiang5 :-) | 15:53 |
| eglynn | no point in creating legacy issues for ourselves ... | 15:53 |
| yjiang5 | dhellmann: agree if we want to change API, ealier is better. But for this one, yes, I want more discussion :) | 15:53 |
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| dhellmann | yjiang5: ok. in the blueprint? | 15:54 |
| yjiang5 | sure. or IRC later. | 15:54 |
| dhellmann | ok, today may be bad for sync communication for me since I'm actually in the office (a bit distracting) | 15:54 |
| dhellmann | let's see, though, and move to the blueprint if it doesn't work | 15:55 |
| yjiang5 | ok. So I will comments on the blueprint. | 15:55 |
| dhellmann | ok | 15:55 |
| yjiang5 | btw, any more comments to the publisher interval patch? | 15:55 |
| dhellmann | yjiang5: I'm going to finish reviewing the latest version after our meeting | 15:56 |
| yjiang5 | dhellmann: thanks! | 15:56 |
| dhellmann | I got about 1/2 way through before we started | 15:56 |
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| nijaba | anything else befvore I close the meeting? | 15:57 |
| dhellmann | nope | 15:57 |
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| nijaba | Thanks everyone for another great meeting | 15:57 |
| nijaba | #endmeeting | 15:57 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meetings || Development in #openstack-dev || Help in #openstack" | 15:57 | |
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| openstack | Meeting ended Thu Feb 21 15:57:42 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 15:57 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/ceilometer/2013/ceilometer.2013-02-21-15.00.html | 15:57 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/ceilometer/2013/ceilometer.2013-02-21-15.00.txt | 15:57 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/ceilometer/2013/ceilometer.2013-02-21-15.00.log.html | 15:57 |
| maksimov | ty | 15:57 |
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| sdague | qa meeting time? | 17:00 |
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| sdague | or is everyone just exhausted from the free | 17:00 |
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| sdague | freeze | 17:01 |
| Ravikumar_hp | hi. | 17:01 |
| mlavalle | Hi | 17:01 |
| Ravikumar_hp | west coast is fine | 17:01 |
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| davidkranz | I'm here. | 17:01 |
| dwalleck | I'm exhausted, just different problems :) | 17:01 |
| * afazekas is here | 17:01 | |
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| davidkranz | jaypipes: Here? | 17:01 |
| chunwang | hi | 17:01 |
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| davidkranz | #startmeeting qa | 17:02 |
| openstack | Meeting started Thu Feb 21 17:02:31 2013 UTC. The chair is davidkranz. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 17:02 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 17:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: qa)" | 17:02 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'qa' | 17:02 |
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| davidkranz | First, remember that summit.openstack.org is open for proposals. | 17:03 |
| fnaval | hi, i'm new. | 17:03 |
| davidkranz | fnaval: Welcome! | 17:03 |
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| fnaval | davidkranz: thanks | 17:03 |
| giulivo | I take the chance, I'm also new | 17:03 |
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| davidkranz | There are currently two proposals in the QA track. | 17:03 |
| davidkranz | I encourage every one to submit proposals for topics of interest. | 17:04 |
| Ravikumar_hp | davidkranz: i am going to add 2 proposals | 17:04 |
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| davidkranz | Ravikumar_hp: Excellent | 17:04 |
| sdague | davidkranz: yeh, I've got a few, but it will take me a week to sort it out | 17:04 |
| dwalleck | sam and I have a few as well | 17:04 |
| sdague | still burned out from the rush of nova reviews | 17:04 |
| davidkranz | sdague: We still have some time. I just wanted to remind folks. | 17:04 |
| sdague | so my brain's a little broken right now :) | 17:04 |
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| davidkranz | #topic Managing Reviews | 17:05 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Managing Reviews (Meeting topic: qa)" | 17:05 | |
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| davidkranz | Looking at the list, we seem to be diong better on timely reviews. | 17:05 |
| davidkranz | There is currently only one review without a -1 that is older than yesterday. | 17:06 |
| afazekas | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/22112/ <- this ? | 17:06 |
| davidkranz | afazekas: Yes. | 17:06 |
| Ravikumar_hp | davidkranz: sometimes new reviewers added very late in review and it goes to some more patches | 17:06 |
| davidkranz | Ravikumar_hp: Sure. I mentioned it because last week we said we would evaluate after two weeks whether we needed some kind of review days for core reviewers. | 17:07 |
| Ravikumar_hp | suggest 3 reviewers from start to end | 17:08 |
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| davidkranz | Ravikumar_hp: I thought two Core reviewers was sufficient. | 17:08 |
| sdague | yeh, 2 cores is fine | 17:08 |
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| dwalleck | davidkranz: ++ | 17:08 |
| davidkranz | OK. I have a few topics but does any one else have a topic to bring up first? | 17:09 |
| sdague | though I highly encourage other folks to review that aren't core. I definitely take that input into account | 17:09 |
| mlavalle | davidkranz: I want to report on the assignment the team gave me last week. The Jenkins problem with Quantum: https://jenkins.openstack.org/view/Tempest/job/gate-tempest-devstack-vm-quantum-full/ | 17:09 |
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| davidkranz | sdague: Yes, I agree. But the core reviewers are the ones on the hook. | 17:09 |
| davidkranz | mlavalle: Please. | 17:09 |
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| mlavalle | davidkranz: the problem is test_network.py. It's a year old test that uses the minimal network REST client provided by Tempest. The client is for version 1.1 of the Quantum API, which is not available in DevStack anymore. | 17:10 |
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| mlavalle | davidkranz: I can patch the client to use Quantum API version 2. But before doing that, I want the team's feedback. For a Jenkins gate test, shouldn't we use the Quantum Python client instead of the minimal REST client in Tempest? | 17:10 |
| mlavalle | davidkranz: I can patch the client to use Quantum API version 2. But before doing that, I want the team's feedback. For a Jenkins gate test, shouldn't we use the Quantum Python client instead of the minimal REST client in Tempest? | 17:10 |
| sdague | mlavalle: no | 17:10 |
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| sdague | because that hides bugs that the clients paper over | 17:11 |
| sdague | tempest should always have it's own REST client implementations | 17:11 |
| mtreinish | mlavalle: you should use the restclient. we are testing the api not the project client implementations | 17:11 |
| dwalleck | sdague: ++ | 17:11 |
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| davidkranz | sdague: I agree, but the tempest rest client could be a copy of the "real" one as was done pretty much with glance. | 17:11 |
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| sdague | davidkranz: we only copied one piece for chunked encoding upload | 17:11 |
| mtreinish | davidkranz: the glance one is only there for one thing that httplib2 couldn't do | 17:12 |
| mlavalle | davidkranz: ok in that case I will upgrade the rest client to use version 2 of the Quatum API | 17:12 |
| afazekas | Are we going to rewrite all tests in tempest/tests which using the libraries ? | 17:12 |
| sdague | because it's kind of complicated | 17:12 |
| dwalleck | davidkranz: It really should be more than a copy. Logging, serialization, metrics. There's a lot of data we can get from clients | 17:12 |
| davidkranz | My point was that tempest should not need to reinvent the client code. | 17:12 |
| sdague | afazekas: what other tests use client libraries, I thought it was only glance | 17:12 |
| afazekas | smoke | 17:12 |
| davidkranz | It just needs to "own" its own client code. | 17:12 |
| afazekas | whitebox | 17:12 |
| sdague | I think that core tempest should not use the clients | 17:13 |
| mlavalle | davidkranz: I should have a patch ready for the Quantum rest client early next week | 17:13 |
| sdague | I'm ok with other directories of tests that do | 17:13 |
| davidkranz | mlavalle: OK, great. | 17:13 |
| sdague | we're adding other things like cli tests, so we have precidence | 17:13 |
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| chunwang | sdague: what does cli test mean here? | 17:14 |
| davidkranz | dwalleck: I don't disagree. But the client is a really good starting point in most cases. | 17:15 |
| davidkranz | Anyway, that is up to the contributor of the tempest client. | 17:15 |
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| afazekas | sdague: someone should announce it on the ML, before I staring to eliminate these client library anomalies .. | 17:15 |
| andreaf | hi | 17:15 |
| davidkranz | chunwang: Testing the cli for the real clients in tempest. | 17:15 |
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| dwalleck | davidkranz: I partially agree. However, it would be better to have consistency across projects | 17:16 |
| sdague | afazekas: sure | 17:16 |
| davidkranz | dwalleck: Yes, reducing it to a previously unsolved problem :) | 17:16 |
| sdague | chunwang: comand line, jog0 has been working to add tests that run the openstack command line tools to make sure they don't blow up | 17:16 |
| sdague | which they do under some surprising circumstances | 17:16 |
| davidkranz | sdague: That reminds me of the negative testing with fuzz issue? | 17:17 |
| davidkranz | Any one have any status on that? | 17:17 |
| sdague | davidkranz: as far as I know no ones worked on it | 17:17 |
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| dwalleck | matt tesauro is leading that up from my group | 17:18 |
| davidkranz | dwalleck: Any status worth mentioning? | 17:18 |
| dwalleck | I believe he has a working prototype, bouncing it around a bit before pushing it in | 17:18 |
| davidkranz | dwalleck: Cool. I'd love to get a look at it. | 17:19 |
| dwalleck | He'll actually be online for the sec meeting next. I can ping him to see what his schedule looks like | 17:19 |
| sdague | it sort of raises another topic. I was hoping in the havana cycle we could lean on launchpad a bit more and actually set h-1, h-2, h-3 goals for blueprints we wanted to land | 17:19 |
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| davidkranz | sdague: +1 | 17:19 |
| sdague | dwalleck: would be nice to see that in progress to understand how it fits with the rest of things | 17:19 |
| chunwang | sdague: do you mean the test for sth like nova-client? Does it mean the tempest script will call the nova command line directly then validate the result whether as expected? | 17:19 |
| sdague | incremental is good | 17:19 |
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| sdague | chunwang: yes, it's a seperate directory, so it won't be in the main tempest tests, but yes | 17:20 |
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| jaypipes | sdague: ++ | 17:20 |
| mtreinish | sdague: ++ | 17:20 |
| jaypipes | as for the discussion on the regular python client libraries from before... we have had that discussion probably 15 times over the last couple years. | 17:20 |
| * sdague tries to figure out what the value of sdague is now | 17:20 | |
| jaypipes | people want it both ways. | 17:20 |
| mtreinish | sdague: 3? | 17:21 |
| sdague | jaypipes: well cli tests kind of give us both ways :) | 17:21 |
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| chunwang | sdague: got it. | 17:21 |
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| andreaf | sdague: ++ | 17:21 |
| mtreinish | sdague: along that note are we going to branch a grizzly version of tempest? | 17:21 |
| sdague | mtreinish: yes, we should at milestone proposed | 17:22 |
| davidkranz | mtreinish: Wr have to | 17:22 |
| jaypipes | mtreinish: another thing we always say we're going to do, then do it, and nobody maintains it. | 17:22 |
| sdague | so there is a version that works on stable | 17:22 |
| sdague | jaypipes: well it's more important that it doesn't change | 17:22 |
| sdague | it's still used on stable gate jobs | 17:22 |
| mtreinish | ok, because I didn't think we did for folsom | 17:22 |
| afazekas | Can we backport tests to the Folsom too ? | 17:22 |
| davidkranz | Right. It's purpose is to prevent regressions on stable releases. | 17:22 |
| sdague | oh, maybe not | 17:22 |
| sdague | but the gate is only smoke | 17:23 |
| sdague | for < grizzly | 17:23 |
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| sdague | so the chance of break is smaller | 17:23 |
| davidkranz | sdague: For grizzly we should make it behave just as it did before becoming a stable branch. | 17:23 |
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| davidkranz | sdague: Gating on all stable/grizzly projects. | 17:23 |
| mtreinish | nm, it was juat hidden on github ui for folsom | 17:24 |
| sdague | davidkranz: right, so I assume we cut stable at rc1 for the rest of the projects? | 17:24 |
| sdague | actually, I don't know what previous policy was there | 17:24 |
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| davidkranz | sdague: That would be reasonable. | 17:25 |
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| davidkranz | IMO, we should not spend time backporting tempest changes to stable branches without a compelling reason. | 17:26 |
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| davidkranz | I would like to bring up the topic of how we are going to test both v2 and v3 of keystone. | 17:26 |
| davidkranz | Though we will have a similar issue with other projects that have more than one version, perhaps glance. | 17:27 |
| davidkranz | Has any one thought about that? | 17:27 |
| mtreinish | davidkranz: for right now all the glance tests are v1 | 17:27 |
| davidkranz | mtreinish: That is not a good situation if v2 is part of grizzly. | 17:28 |
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| sdague | davidkranz: it would be good to test both versions I think | 17:28 |
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| sdague | nova's going to have the same desire in havana as we cut a v3 | 17:28 |
| sdague | which is going to change some of the tempest tests as we normalize return codes | 17:28 |
| mtreinish | davidkranz: yeah it would be good to test both versions. I'll start working on that. | 17:28 |
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| davidkranz | sdague: Right. But it is tough to do with this being specified in tempest.conf unless we run a separate gate for each version, which doesn't really scale. | 17:29 |
| afazekas | note: our glance endpoint definition does not contains a version.. | 17:29 |
| andreaf | davidkranz: that's a good topic. in general how are we going to test multiple configurations on nova side? e.g. using autoassigned IPs or not, using libvirt driver or xen | 17:29 |
| davidkranz | I believe this is actually a big architectural issue (and performance one) that we have not addressed. | 17:29 |
| andreaf | davidkranz: for gate it doesn't scale, but perhaps we need other jobs to verify different configs | 17:29 |
| sdague | davidkranz: ok, well lets go experiment a bit and figure out if we have a compelling way to address it | 17:29 |
| Ravikumar_hp | davidkranz: can we consult Keystone PTL | 17:30 |
| chunwang | Will the tempest developer team still recommend user to use latest master for test of different version after grizzly version branch? | 17:30 |
| Ravikumar_hp | we are adding V3 tests as the functioanlity is getting complete | 17:30 |
| davidkranz | Ravikumar_hp: Sure, but I think this is really a tempest issue. | 17:30 |
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| jaypipes | davidkranz: the keystone endpoint should support BOTH v2 and v3 APIs simulataneously. | 17:30 |
| sdague | jaypipes: agreed | 17:31 |
| Ravikumar_hp | yes. it does | 17:31 |
| davidkranz | The question is do we run all the tests in both versions, plus new tests for the new version? | 17:32 |
| jaypipes | davidkranz: so IMHO, we should just have the tempest keystone identity client query the endpoint base URI and get the v2 and v3 API root endpoints from the returned 301 | 17:32 |
| sdague | davidkranz: we should run whatever the components support | 17:32 |
| davidkranz | jaypipes: Sounds good. | 17:32 |
| sdague | eventually the deprecate the old apis, then we can pull them out | 17:32 |
| jaypipes | davidkranz: we run all tests for whatever versions are returned in the 301 | 17:32 |
| afazekas | as I mentioned on the ML, the services (clients), should not decide the endpoint on their own, they should get the base url from the constructor | 17:32 |
| jaypipes | afazekas: they should get the base URI from the uri value in the config file :) | 17:33 |
| afazekas | jaypipes: one for v2 and one for v3 ? | 17:33 |
| davidkranz | jaypipes: So we just need to change the code that processes the admin_url and remove the /2 in the config? | 17:33 |
| jaypipes | afazekas: no, the root URI is auth.example.com:5000/ | 17:34 |
| davidkranz | jaypipes: Are all OpenStack APIs going to behave the same way with multiple versions? | 17:34 |
| jaypipes | afazekas: have the rest_client subclass' tack on the v2.0/ and v3/ | 17:34 |
| afazekas | yes, and it gets back service endpoint | 17:34 |
| jaypipes | davidkranz: everything other than swift should. | 17:34 |
| davidkranz | jaypipes: :) | 17:34 |
| davidkranz | So we just need to find out from the keystone devs when this will be ready to work. Or does it already? | 17:35 |
| sdague | davidkranz: yeh, it's supposed to in the spec. nova does it in theory, though we only have one API version right now | 17:35 |
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| jaypipes | davidkranz: should work already. | 17:35 |
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| dolphm | jaypipes: +1, v3 auth merged yesterday | 17:35 |
| jaypipes | davidkranz: glance, too. | 17:35 |
| afazekas | jaypipes: now every client acquires a token, and parses the token for endpoint, do we really need to do it in the "clients" ? | 17:35 |
| jaypipes | afazekas: no, we should cache it. | 17:36 |
| davidkranz | So now we just need to know who is planning to make this change. | 17:36 |
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| afazekas | We should cache it with global cache used be all rest clients to hide design glitches ? | 17:37 |
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| jaypipes | afazekas: but I will say... that the more we write code in these tempest rest clients, the more similar they end up looking like the darn upstream python client libs, so other than fuzz testing, I'm really beginning to question the need for them, frankly. | 17:37 |
| jaypipes | afazekas: especially with certain folks' push to make them object-oriented/resource-exposing. | 17:37 |
| jaypipes | afazekas: which essentially will just make them identical to the upstream python client libs, for good or bad. | 17:38 |
| afazekas | jaypipes: If we could eavesdrop the traffic done by the upstream clean, we would not need to implement our own clients in most cases | 17:39 |
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| jaypipes | afazekas: we can easily eavesdrop. | 17:39 |
| afazekas | jaypipes: If we could eavesdrop the traffic done by the upstream client, we would not need to implement our own clients in most cases | 17:39 |
| jaypipes | afazekas: monkeypatch the base request call with a simple decorator. | 17:39 |
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| afazekas | jaypipes: but in this case we need to modify code, which supposed to an analyses code | 17:40 |
| jaypipes | afazekas: I'm not following you, could you elaborate what you mean by that? | 17:41 |
| afazekas | If we using the client libraries, we should be try to use them, as it is considered not modified , and we are able to check the traffic, at the same time | 17:42 |
| jaypipes | afazekas: I'm talking about adding a simple decorator on the base client class' request() method that listens and records (with fixtures.Fixture.addDetail()) on the incoming and outgoing HTTP request calls | 17:43 |
| jaypipes | in other words... | 17:43 |
| jaypipes | import novaclient.v1_1.client as c | 17:43 |
| jaypipes | from mock import patch | 17:43 |
| afazekas | after module load, you would hook them.. | 17:43 |
| afazekas | it is good | 17:44 |
| jaypipes | patch(client.request, some_listener) | 17:44 |
| jaypipes | that's all... | 17:44 |
| jaypipes | nothing more than a simple listener/recorder, nothing changing the way the client worked. | 17:44 |
| afazekas | First it is sounds good.. | 17:44 |
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| afazekas | We can discuss the details later | 17:46 |
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| davidkranz | So is there a proposal to change tempest policy in favor of "real" clients? | 17:47 |
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| afazekas | It needs detailed plan before implementing anything | 17:47 |
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| davidkranz | afazekas: I meant a proposal in concept. | 17:48 |
| davidkranz | afazekas: Or policy. | 17:48 |
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| afazekas | May be it will not fly , because of some unforeseen detail | 17:48 |
| davidkranz | afazekas: In order to evaluate that we would need a real requirement list for the client to determine if real clients could meet it. | 17:49 |
| afazekas | davidkranz: lets consider it just an idea, until we do not have more detailed plan | 17:49 |
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| davidkranz | I'm not sure the list of objections to real clients was ever explicit. | 17:49 |
| jaypipes | davidkranz: I think it's a good discussion for the summit. | 17:49 |
| davidkranz | jaypipes: +1 | 17:49 |
| davidkranz | jaypipes: Can you or afazekas submit one? | 17:50 |
| afazekas | may be they are not letting us to make really bad thing, and some case is not testable | 17:50 |
| afazekas | like violating pre-conditions | 17:50 |
| jaypipes | davidkranz: the more we add to the tempest rest_client(s), the more they look virtually identical to the upstream libs. and until fuzz testing is handled in an automated/grammar-based way, the only way we can do negative testing is to use the tempest rest client and not the upstream libs. | 17:50 |
| davidkranz | afazekas: We have already excepted negative tests with fuzzing. | 17:50 |
| davidkranz | jaypipes: I understand. | 17:51 |
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| jaypipes | davidha: exactly, so IMHO, we can't get rid of the tempest rest client until we have a grammar-based tool for negative testing | 17:51 |
| afazekas | do we have a good fuzz-er anywhere ? | 17:51 |
| davidkranz | afazekas: Daryl is going to report on that. See above in this meeting. | 17:52 |
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| afazekas | ok | 17:52 |
| davidkranz | jaypipes: Agreed. I was thinking about new tests and new projects coming into integration. | 17:52 |
| davidkranz | jaypipes: Whether we make them write their own client. | 17:53 |
| davidkranz | jaypipes: tempest client, that is. | 17:53 |
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| jaypipes | davidkranz: yeah... good point. not sure... I'd lean on the side of saying no. | 17:53 |
| davidkranz | jaypipes: :) At the beginning of this meeting we told mlavalle "yes" I think. | 17:54 |
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| davidkranz | Obviously this needs more discussion. | 17:55 |
| davidkranz | Any other issues before we close? | 17:55 |
| mkollaro | does anybody know about any swift destruction tests? | 17:55 |
| mkollaro | simulating disk failures and such | 17:56 |
| davidkranz | mkollaro: I think all we know about is what is in Tempest now. | 17:56 |
| mkollaro | :/ | 17:56 |
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| afazekas | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/22112/ <- please review it :) | 17:57 |
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| davidkranz | OK, ready to close... | 17:58 |
| davidkranz | Thanks all. | 17:59 |
| davidkranz | #endmeeting | 17:59 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meetings || Development in #openstack-dev || Help in #openstack" | 17:59 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Thu Feb 21 17:59:20 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 17:59 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/qa/2013/qa.2013-02-21-17.02.html | 17:59 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/qa/2013/qa.2013-02-21-17.02.txt | 17:59 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/qa/2013/qa.2013-02-21-17.02.log.html | 17:59 |
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| hyakuhei | #startmeeting OSSG | 18:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Thu Feb 21 18:01:42 2013 UTC. The chair is hyakuhei. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 18:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 18:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: OSSG)" | 18:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'ossg' | 18:01 |
| hyakuhei | Good morning/afternoon/evening all | 18:02 |
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| hyakuhei | #info bdpayne might not be able to make it to this meeting - he sends his apologies | 18:02 |
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| hyakuhei | #topic Encryption | 18:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Encryption (Meeting topic: OSSG)" | 18:03 | |
| hyakuhei | Right, so there's been a lot of discussion on-list regarding encryption, especially in regard to Cinder. Anyone care to comment / update? | 18:04 |
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| hyakuhei | Welcome guys :) | 18:04 |
| hyakuhei | Topic is 'Encryption' atm. | 18:04 |
| hyakuhei | there's been a lot of discussion on-list regarding encryption, especially in regard to Cinder. Anyone care to comment / update? | 18:04 |
| rellerreller | There is an email thread called "Volume Encryption" in dev mailing list | 18:05 |
| rellerreller | That one has been really active lately. | 18:05 |
| hyakuhei | Yup, that's mainly what I'm referring to. | 18:05 |
| hyakuhei | The thing that scares me is the lackluster discussion with regard to key management | 18:05 |
| rellerreller | We are talking about encryption problems with regards to clone and snapshot operations | 18:05 |
| rellerreller | There will be a discussion on key management at the April summit | 18:05 |
| hyakuhei | Yeah, I know some of our Block Storage guys had some concerns there. | 18:06 |
| mtesauro | Tangentially related, I have submitted a talk for the summit on a key management work that Rack is doing currently | 18:06 |
| Kiall | Pure fluke I noticed this meeting/topic - But Moniker (DNS service) would be interested in some sort of secure key storage too for DNSSEC signing keys etc | 18:06 |
| rellerreller | We plan to do a talk on disk encryption at the summit as well to talk about possible solutions for clones and snapshots | 18:06 |
| mtesauro | key management is needed in many areas | 18:06 |
| rellerreller | I think Malini also has a talk on key management | 18:06 |
| hyakuhei | rellerreller: a dev discussion or a presentation (I forget the correct parlance) | 18:07 |
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| rellerreller | A dev discussion | 18:07 |
| hyakuhei | #idea Share the love, vote on the security topics for the Summit | 18:07 |
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| lglenden | #link http://summit.openstack.org/cfp/details/6 for the key manager dev discussion | 18:07 |
| rellerreller | mtesauro: which track did you register your talk? | 18:08 |
| lglenden | is there voting on the dev discussions or just the user sessions? | 18:08 |
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| rellerreller | Keystone, cinder, etc | 18:08 |
| hyakuhei | rellerreller: great. I'm really concerned about key management, in my experience with systems like this the easiest way to circumvent/undermine is typically to go after the key management | 18:08 |
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| mtesauro | here's the link to the talk | 18:08 |
| hyakuhei | lglenden: voting is just for the summit presentations | 18:08 |
| mtesauro | [link] http://www.openstack.org/summit/portland-2013/vote-for-speakers/presentation/573 | 18:09 |
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| hyakuhei | #link https://www.openstack.org/summit/portland-2013/vote-for-speakers/#538 for the OSSG talk | 18:09 |
| hyakuhei | So I think we can agree to meet up and discuss this at the summit. | 18:09 |
| hyakuhei | #topic Security Notes | 18:09 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Security Notes (Meeting topic: OSSG)" | 18:09 | |
| mtesauro | #link http://www.openstack.org/summit/portland-2013/vote-for-speakers/presentation/573 | 18:09 |
| hyakuhei | I have an outstanding action to publish the LXC note, I've got agreement from the OpenStack guys on how they'd like it to be done so I'll action that this week | 18:10 |
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| hyakuhei | Does anyone else have ideas for security notes? I think we must all have a pocket full of 'configure it this way or its a security nightmare' thoughts - Security Notes are a way to document them for the rest of the community to use while we wait for the hardening guide. | 18:11 |
| hyakuhei | Well, if there's something you think might be relevant I'm happy to talk about it. Similarly I'm happy to do the write-up and publishing of OSNs for anyone who has issues they think should be documented in this way. | 18:13 |
| hyakuhei | Any comments/issues before we move on? | 18:13 |
| hyakuhei | #action hyakuhei - publish the LXC note, begin work on the next ones. | 18:13 |
| hyakuhei | #topic Hardening Guide | 18:14 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Hardening Guide (Meeting topic: OSSG)" | 18:14 | |
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| hyakuhei | At the last summit there was a really strong call for something along these lines. I think everyone is keen to see it happen but of course, everyone is busy trying to fix OpenStack! | 18:15 |
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| mtesauro | Just curious, why latex? I'd think a more simple markup like markdown or aciidoc would lower the contribution threashhold. | 18:15 |
| hyakuhei | I'm going to get the outline turned into LaTeX this week. Happy to take any contributions and convert to tex if authors aren't comfortable withtex. | 18:15 |
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| hyakuhei | Academic Snobbiness ? | 18:16 |
| lglenden | I've collected some feedback on the guide from my team, what is the best venue to discuss it? the mailing list? | 18:16 |
| hyakuhei | I'm not against changing the format particularly. | 18:16 |
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| mtesauro | That's great and all but if you want people to contribute, best to keep the stuff they have to know down to a minimum. | 18:16 |
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| hyakuhei | lglenden: perhaps use the team mailing list or if you'd prefer to just mail it to bryan or myself | 18:17 |
| mtesauro | I've done Tex/Latex and its great but lots of people don't really like it or want to learn | 18:17 |
| hyakuhei | mtesauro: You're correct | 18:17 |
| lglenden | hyakuhei: will do, I will start off with an email to you and Bryan | 18:17 |
| Kiall | Also - The existing doc team, and infra tooling don't do latex :) | 18:17 |
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| hyakuhei | #action current authors bdpayne and hyakuhei to discuss the proposal to move the Hardening Guide to a different format that's more accessible | 18:18 |
| mtesauro | Ouch. So what's a good alternative? Whats the existing doc team using? | 18:18 |
| hyakuhei | lglenden: thanks | 18:18 |
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| hyakuhei | We're already using a close approximation of MD for Security Notes. | 18:18 |
| Kiall | mtesauro, the doc team uses DocBook and some Sphinx+RST thrown in | 18:18 |
| hyakuhei | #idea email robert.clark@hp.com with your suggestions for the (possible) reformat | 18:19 |
| mtesauro | Interesting. I know you can go from asciidoc => DocBook. Not sure about markdown | 18:19 |
| hyakuhei | I think there's a lot of value in following the way others are doing it. | 18:20 |
| Kiall | mtesauro, BTW I'm not saying anything about weather a switch is necessary.. Just worth pinging anne gentile and the infra guys before introducing a new format :) | 18:20 |
| mtesauro | @hyakuhei: Totally agree on that point | 18:20 |
| hyakuhei | Any concerns with doing the development of the docs inside of git? | 18:20 |
| Kiall | #link https://github.com/openstack/openstack-manuals | 18:21 |
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| mtesauro | Not really - if we pick a non-binary format, it gives us version, branches, etc | 18:21 |
| hyakuhei | #action lglenden to email robert.clark@hp.com with some feedback on the hardening guide | 18:21 |
| hyakuhei | yarp | 18:21 |
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| hyakuhei | Ok, any more comments on the HG ? | 18:21 |
| noslzzp | yes. | 18:21 |
| hyakuhei | Go ahead :) | 18:21 |
| noslzzp | I have done a bit of work and will send a pull request tomorrow.. | 18:22 |
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| noslzzp | and yes Tex is a problem for me..in terms of time and proper tools. | 18:22 |
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| hyakuhei | Fantastic! If we do a format change I'm happy to take on converting any existing content. | 18:22 |
| noslzzp | some "hardening" best practices coming out of the federal government will be added.. | 18:22 |
| noslzzp | that is all. :) | 18:23 |
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| mtesauro | @noslzzp: If you're using Linux, look at Lyx - make Latex/Tex much nicer. | 18:23 |
| hyakuhei | Fantastic - thanks for your contribution. | 18:23 |
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| mtesauro | http://www.lyx.org/ | 18:24 |
| noslzzp | OSX over here. :) | 18:24 |
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| hyakuhei | Probably not worth investing much time in tooling this week, in case we do decide to change the format ;) | 18:24 |
| hyakuhei | #topic AOB | 18:24 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "AOB (Meeting topic: OSSG)" | 18:24 | |
| hyakuhei | mtesauro: How's the OWASP-OpenStack group coming? | 18:24 |
| mtesauro | I've got the Wiki page up, the mail list up and have ~6 queued requests to join I'm going to reply to today | 18:25 |
| hyakuhei | Cool! Anything we can do to help, cross-linking etc just say. | 18:25 |
| mtesauro | Next steps is to see what interests the members have | 18:25 |
| mtesauro | Yes, I'm trying to have suggested work for people who join. | 18:26 |
| mtesauro | Any suggestions ideas are very welcome | 18:26 |
| mtesauro | OpenStack is pretty broad so I hate to leave it up to them if they are interested but not sure how to help | 18:26 |
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| hyakuhei | Yeah, well at least there's a lot to do ;) | 18:27 |
| hyakuhei | Right, one last topic, somewhat out-of-order. | 18:27 |
| hyakuhei | #topic Summit Meetup | 18:27 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Summit Meetup (Meeting topic: OSSG)" | 18:27 | |
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| mtesauro | I will be at the summit and am game for a meetup | 18:29 |
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| hyakuhei | bugger. | 18:31 |
| mtesauro | dropped out and came back I see | 18:32 |
| hyakuhei | apparantly. | 18:32 |
| hyakuhei | We're over time so I'll close this out. | 18:32 |
| hyakuhei | #topic Summit Meetup | 18:32 |
| hyakuhei | I'll send a mail around but we should meetup. Either at,before or after one of the main events. | 18:32 |
| hyakuhei | Any votes/requests/demands on the back of a postcard. | 18:32 |
| hyakuhei | Thank you to all of you for putting time into this group right at the start. It's going to become an important part of OpenStack, thanks to people putting in effort on day 1. | 18:32 |
| mtesauro | perfect. | 18:32 |
| hyakuhei | #endmeeting | 18:33 |
| hyakuhei | #endmeeting | 18:33 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meetings || Development in #openstack-dev || Help in #openstack" | 18:33 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Thu Feb 21 18:33:21 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 18:33 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/ossg/2013/ossg.2013-02-21-18.01.html | 18:33 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/ossg/2013/ossg.2013-02-21-18.01.txt | 18:33 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/ossg/2013/ossg.2013-02-21-18.01.log.html | 18:33 |
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| hyakuhei | Well, that was slightly messy. How annoying that I dropped right at the end! | 18:33 |
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| noslzzp | :) | 18:34 |
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| hyakuhei | I wasn't sure if there was a meeting due to start right after us so didn't want to run over. | 18:34 |
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| russellb | anyone around for the nova meeting? | 21:02 |
| Vek | o/ | 21:02 |
| sdague | o/ | 21:02 |
| dachary | \o | 21:02 |
| devananda | o/ | 21:02 |
| alaski | hi | 21:02 |
| russellb | well looky there | 21:03 |
| dansmith | yo | 21:03 |
| russellb | vishy: around? | 21:03 |
| vishy | uup | 21:03 |
| vishy | yup | 21:03 |
| russellb | cool. | 21:03 |
| russellb | #startmeeting nova | 21:03 |
| openstack | Meeting started Thu Feb 21 21:03:21 2013 UTC. The chair is russellb. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 21:03 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 21:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: nova)" | 21:03 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'nova' | 21:03 |
| russellb | #chair vishy | 21:03 |
| openstack | Current chairs: russellb vishy | 21:03 |
| russellb | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/Nova | 21:03 |
| dansmith | is this where we pat ourselves on the back? | 21:03 |
| dansmith | or is that next week? | 21:03 |
| russellb | Our agenda is "..." or whatever vishy says :) | 21:03 |
| sdague | heh | 21:04 |
| russellb | I don't think closing out g-3 went that bad personally | 21:04 |
| russellb | definitely busy | 21:04 |
| dansmith | agree | 21:04 |
| vishy | lets do bugs | 21:04 |
| russellb | k | 21:05 |
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| vishy | and see if anyone has anything to prop for feature freeze | 21:05 |
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| russellb | on the bug front ... lots to triage: http://webnumbr.com/untouched-nova-bugs | 21:05 |
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| russellb | and we'll need to triage python-novaclient here soon too | 21:05 |
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| russellb | any last minute grizzly-3 blockers? | 21:06 |
| vishy | so triaging and fixing | 21:06 |
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| vishy | i've seen a few nasty ones but nothing that need to block | 21:07 |
| russellb | trying to get https://bugs.launchpad.net/nova/+bug/1125378 in for grizzly-3 | 21:07 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1125378 in nova "VNC proxy can be made to connect to wrong VM" [High,In progress] | 21:07 |
| dansmith | yeah, I'm working on one that will be good for rc1 but critical for g3 | 21:07 |
| russellb | not critical? | 21:07 |
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| dansmith | not critical, yes, thank you :) | 21:07 |
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| russellb | launchpad says 200 bugs fixed in grizzly-3 | 21:09 |
| russellb | not counting things we fixed without bothering to file a bug, heh | 21:09 |
| Vek | I'm sure there's lots of those :) | 21:09 |
| russellb | so if we focus on bugs for rc, we should be able to break 200 right? | 21:09 |
| vishy | right! | 21:10 |
| russellb | yay | 21:10 |
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| russellb | vishy: have you received any FFE requests? | 21:10 |
| vishy | russellb: are you going to backport that to milestone-proposed | 21:10 |
| russellb | i feel like last time around we had a bunch to consider | 21:10 |
| vishy | russellb: not yet no | 21:10 |
| russellb | vishy: i can backport it once it merges, sure | 21:11 |
| russellb | vishy: still TBD on who will do the backports, we may need a volunteer | 21:11 |
| vishy | maybe we should have volunteers due the backport of the sec bug | 21:11 |
| vishy | jinx | 21:11 |
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| russellb | i emailed John (original author) but it sounds like he may not have time to get it done as quickly as we'd like since it's a vuln | 21:11 |
| vishy | russellb: so folsom might be extra tricky because we can't bump the rpcapi | 21:12 |
| vishy | in compute | 21:12 |
| russellb | argh | 21:12 |
| vishy | russellb: thoughts? | 21:12 |
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| russellb | well ... | 21:12 |
| russellb | hm. | 21:13 |
| vishy | we could skip the validate part of it i suppose | 21:13 |
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| russellb | that's pretty nice though | 21:13 |
| vishy | i don't know if consolerpc was versioned back then | 21:13 |
| russellb | it was in folsom | 21:13 |
| russellb | not essex though | 21:14 |
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| russellb | it bumped compute too though, that's the trick | 21:14 |
| vishy | russellb: might take a core to tackle that one | 21:14 |
| russellb | could maybe just do it as adding a new method instead of changing one | 21:14 |
| vishy | just due to rpc concerns | 21:14 |
| russellb | yeah ... | 21:14 |
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| russellb | ok so any volunteers want to tackle a tricky security backport? :) | 21:15 |
| russellb | i can't tonight, but i can hit it tomorrow if nobody else wants it | 21:15 |
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| russellb | k, just emailed John and told him I'd get the backport to save him some pain | 21:16 |
| russellb | Remember kids, report security issues as private bugs and patches, kthx ^_^ | 21:17 |
| russellb | soooooo ... what else is up | 21:18 |
| sdague | are we going to get private gerrit on next cycle? | 21:18 |
| sdague | I know that was talked about at one point | 21:18 |
| russellb | ttx has been talking to -infra about that a lot. I'm not sure the current status. | 21:18 |
| clarkb | sdague: I think jeblair and ttx have been talking about it. I haven't been clued into what the current state of those talks is | 21:19 |
| russellb | so ... any other bugs? FFE discussion? RC concerns? | 21:21 |
| sdague | honestly, I think we merged so much code during the run up that people aren't asking for FFE | 21:22 |
| vishy | i think we did pretty well this time | 21:22 |
| russellb | fun times. | 21:22 |
| vishy | :) | 21:22 |
| russellb | vishy: same here | 21:22 |
| sdague | yeh, I need a nap though :) | 21:22 |
| russellb | so, design summit proposals are open ... summit.openstack.org | 21:22 |
| russellb | 11 for Nova so far | 21:22 |
| vishy | i started making a list of important nova features that missed | 21:23 |
| ttx | sdague: probably not | 21:23 |
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| russellb | well congrats on a quiet meeting right after the feature freeze, shall we close and take a nap? | 21:25 |
| vishy | fine by me | 21:25 |
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| Vek | Zzzzz | 21:25 |
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| russellb | bye! | 21:25 |
| russellb | #endmeeting | 21:25 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meetings || Development in #openstack-dev || Help in #openstack" | 21:25 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Thu Feb 21 21:25:54 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 21:25 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova/2013/nova.2013-02-21-21.03.html | 21:25 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova/2013/nova.2013-02-21-21.03.txt | 21:25 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova/2013/nova.2013-02-21-21.03.log.html | 21:25 |
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