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| bauzas | *cough cough* | 14:00 |
|---|---|---|
| bauzas | edleafe: ^ | 14:00 |
| gibi | :) | 14:00 |
| * efried pats bauzas on the back | 14:00 | |
| edleafe | #startmeeting nova_scheduler | 14:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Mon Mar 26 14:00:43 2018 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is edleafe. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 14:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 14:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: nova_scheduler)" | 14:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'nova_scheduler' | 14:00 |
| mriedem | o/ | 14:00 |
| tssurya | o/ | 14:00 |
| bauzas | \o | 14:00 |
| efried | @/ | 14:00 |
| gibi | o/ | 14:00 |
| edleafe | geez, everyone's in a rush today! | 14:01 |
| * bauzas notes that he'll be only available for the next 20 mins | 14:01 | |
| efried | actually more like รถ/ today (new haircut) | 14:01 |
| * bauzas greets daylight saving | 14:01 | |
| cdent | oh hai | 14:01 |
| efried | eff dst | 14:01 |
| edleafe | #link Agenda: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/NovaScheduler | 14:02 |
| edleafe | I like DST - I hate having to go back to standard time in the winter | 14:02 |
| efried | Fine, then let's stick to that one. But this switching back and forth is for the birds. | 14:03 |
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| jaypipes | o/ | 14:03 |
| * bauzas likes DST because for 6 months, my oven has the right time | 14:03 | |
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| edleafe | #topic Specs | 14:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Specs (Meeting topic: nova_scheduler)" | 14:03 | |
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| bauzas | I have a big question on NUMA thingy | 14:04 |
| edleafe | Here's the current list from the agenda: | 14:04 |
| edleafe | #link VMware: place instances on resource pool (using update_provider_tree) https://review.openstack.org/#/c/549067/ | 14:04 |
| edleafe | #link Provide error codes for placement API https://review.openstack.org/#/c/418393/ | 14:04 |
| edleafe | #link Mirror nova host aggregates to placement API https://review.openstack.org/#/c/545057/ | 14:04 |
| edleafe | #link Network bandwidth resource provider https://review.openstack.org/#/c/502306/ | 14:04 |
| edleafe | #link Default Allocation Ratios https://review.openstack.org/#/c/552105/ | 14:04 |
| edleafe | #link Proposes NUMA topology with RPs https://review.openstack.org/#/c/552924/ | 14:04 |
| edleafe | #link Spec for isolating configuration of placement database https://review.openstack.org/#/c/552927/ | 14:04 |
| edleafe | #link Account for host agg allocation ratio in placement https://review.openstack.org/#/c/544683/ | 14:04 |
| edleafe | #link Spec on preemptible servers https://review.openstack.org/#/c/438640/ | 14:04 |
| edleafe | go for it bauzas | 14:04 |
| jaypipes | bauzas: we only accept small questions on NUMA things. big questions are right out. | 14:05 |
| bauzas | looks like we have an agreement on providing resources like CPU and RAM on NUMA nodes directly if the operator wants to | 14:05 |
| jaypipes | bauzas: Also, I request that you split your question into granular request groups. | 14:05 |
| efried | appropriately namespaced | 14:05 |
| jaypipes | ++ | 14:05 |
| bauzas | crazy question : could the operator want to tell which specific resource classes it wants NUMA-based ? | 14:06 |
| bauzas | like, could I as an operator care about VCPU but not MEMORY_MB ? | 14:06 |
| jaypipes | bauzas: not following you... could you elaborate? | 14:06 |
| jaypipes | bauzas: sure, I see no reason why not. | 14:06 |
| bauzas | okay, so it would be defined per class, roger. | 14:06 |
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| edleafe | jaypipes: wouldn't that be done in libvirt? | 14:07 |
| jaypipes | bauzas: you mean have the dedicated CPU and shared CPU (VCPU) tracked as inventory on each NUMA node and have MEMORY_MB tracked as inventory on the root compute node provider, yes? | 14:07 |
| edleafe | IOW, either account for NUMA, or don't | 14:07 |
| bauzas | jaypipes: exactly | 14:07 |
| bauzas | jaypipes: or the contrary | 14:07 |
| efried | seems reasonable to me. | 14:07 |
| bauzas | like, memory-bound applications could care about MEMORY allocations | 14:07 |
| bauzas | but wouldn't care about CPUs | 14:08 |
| jaypipes | well, let's keep in mind that memory pages != MEMORY_MB... | 14:08 |
| efried | I mean, doable. I won't speak to reasonable. | 14:08 |
| bauzas | jaypipes: memory pages are a different feature, I just wrote an example for it in my to-be-uploaded spec | 14:08 |
| jaypipes | bauzas: memory pages are not the same thing as MEMORY_MB... memory pages are atomic units of a thing. MEMORY_MB's atomic "unit" is just a MB of RAM somewhere. | 14:08 |
| efried | bauzas: IMO, we haven't yet landed on a workable way for the op to represent a desire for NUMA affinity. | 14:08 |
| jaypipes | bauzas: ok, cool. just wanted to clarify that | 14:08 |
| efried | So at this point, sky's the limit. | 14:08 |
| bauzas | efried: yup, that's in my spec | 14:09 |
| efried | ack | 14:09 |
| * efried has a pretty big backlog of spec reviews to catch up on. | 14:09 | |
| bauzas | okay, so I'll provide a revision foir https://review.openstack.org/#/c/552924/ about optionally-NUMA-able resource classes | 14:09 |
| edleafe | s/efried/everyone | 14:09 |
| bauzas | yeah I'm under the water too | 14:10 |
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| bauzas | anyway, I'm done with questions | 14:10 |
| bauzas | thanks | 14:10 |
| edleafe | Any other questions / discussion about specs? | 14:10 |
| jaypipes | I want to make sure edleafe gets his question answerted. | 14:10 |
| jaypipes | about libvirt being responsible for tracking NUMA | 14:10 |
| edleafe | well, libvirt "owns" resources on the hypervisor, no? | 14:11 |
| jaypipes | edleafe: currently, the "tracking" of NUMA resources isn't really done in libvirt, but rather it's done in the nova/virt/hardware.py module looking at CONF options like vcpu_pin_set. | 14:11 |
| edleafe | jaypipes: yeah, but with the move to placement, I thought libvirt would be authoritative on all resources for a compute node | 14:12 |
| jaypipes | edleafe: as well as flavor/image properties to do "allocations" of virtual NUMA topologies on top of host NUMA topology. | 14:12 |
| bauzas | jaypipes: edleafe: what I'd like is to get a consensus on a model for NUMA resources that virt drivers would implement | 14:12 |
| cdent | s/thought/hoped/ ? | 14:12 |
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| edleafe | cdent: no, it was what I've gleaned from the various discussions | 14:12 |
| bauzas | if Xen starts to implement NUMA topologies, all cool with me provided they model things the same way | 14:12 |
| jaypipes | edleafe: the virt driver will be, yes, but there will still need to be a way for the ops to signal to libvirt how (or even if) to utilize NUMA-related topology on the host. | 14:13 |
| bauzas | the virt driver is responsible for generating the tree, but ideally trees wouldn't be virt-specific | 14:13 |
| edleafe | jaypipes: zactly | 14:13 |
| bauzas | jaypipes: that has to be addressed in https://review.openstack.org/#/c/552924/ | 14:13 |
| bauzas | hence my question about tunability | 14:13 |
| jaypipes | right, no disagreement from me :) | 14:13 |
| edleafe | jaypipes: it was the "do some NUMA, but not all" that seemed to not align | 14:13 |
| bauzas | let's be clear | 14:13 |
| bauzas | if we go for a config-managed way to provide resources thru the virt driver, that doesn't mean that conf opt will be in the libvirt namespace | 14:14 |
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| jaypipes | bauzas: agreed. | 14:14 |
| bauzas | actually, I was thinking on a way for libvirt to pass the NUMA topology to a non-virt specific module that would translate into placement RPs | 14:14 |
| bauzas | after all, a NUMA topology is just an architecture | 14:15 |
| bauzas | but I'm overengineering the implementation | 14:16 |
| bauzas | keep in mind a specific module out of virt.libvirt that libvirt would consume for generating the tree | 14:16 |
| edleafe | bauzas: my concern is just that: making the solution overly complex in order to solve a 2% edge case | 14:16 |
| bauzas | and that specific module would have config options related to it | 14:16 |
| bauzas | edleafe: configability is 2% I agree | 14:17 |
| edleafe | Assuming that this is an edge case, and not what most deployments would need | 14:17 |
| bauzas | edleafe: having an ubiquitous interface for describing NUMA resources across all drivers isn't a 2% concern | 14:17 |
| efried | But trying to make it ubiquitous might be a 98% effort. | 14:17 |
| jaypipes | edleafe: hahahahah you said "edge" | 14:18 |
| edleafe | bauzas: ok, it just felt like we started going down the rabbit hole on this | 14:18 |
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| edleafe | jaypipes: edge case, not edge computing :) | 14:18 |
| bauzas | edleafe: my biggest fear is that we go down too-libvirt specific | 14:18 |
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| efried | +++ | 14:18 |
| bauzas | edleafe: keeping the code responsible for generating the tree out of libvirt is crucial to me, if we want that to be non-virt specifci | 14:19 |
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| edleafe | Oh, I see mriedem has added another spec: | 14:19 |
| edleafe | #link Complex (Anti)-Affinity Policies https://review.openstack.org/#/c/546925/ | 14:19 |
| jaypipes | bauzas: there's no disagreement with you. | 14:19 |
| mriedem | edleafe: you can ignore for now, it needs an update | 14:19 |
| edleafe | mriedem: sure, just including for completeness | 14:19 |
| jaypipes | #action everyone ignore mriedem | 14:19 |
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| bauzas | jaypipes: thanks, I don't feel I had an argument, just wanted to clarify the 2%-concern | 14:20 |
| bauzas | I'll have to leave soon-ish | 14:21 |
| cdent | So, I actually think we should move all the numa stuff into the virt drivers and not try to genericize | 14:21 |
| bauzas | moving on ? | 14:21 |
| bauzas | hah | 14:21 |
| cdent | because there's not very much overlap | 14:21 |
| bauzas | cdent: any reasons why the contrary, mr. vmware ? :p | 14:21 |
| cdent | I take offense at being slapped with mr vmware. They pay me, but that's about it. | 14:22 |
| bauzas | cdent: the problem is that as of now, only libvirt provided NUMA features, right? | 14:22 |
| bauzas | cdent: oh sorry, I apologize if you feel offended | 14:22 |
| cdent | If we want ProviderTrees to be "true", then that needs to happen in driver | 14:22 |
| bauzas | it wasn't the intent, rather an explicit way of considering your opinion as good because you have other virt driver in mind | 14:23 |
| cdent | I tend to leave the employer at the door to IRC | 14:23 |
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| edleafe | You have a door on your IRC? | 14:23 |
| cdent | but understand where you were coming from, so offense untaken. | 14:23 |
| efried | If I can paraphrase what I think cdent is saying (or at least convey my own opinion couched in terms of agreeing with cdent :) | 14:24 |
| bauzas | sorry folks, I'll have to drop in a very few and don't want to drop mic | 14:24 |
| edleafe | efried: paraphrase away! | 14:24 |
| efried | We want the virt driver to be responsible for modeling, and the operator can do *something* in the flavor that represents the NUMA topology in a generic way (i.e. designating affinities, not specific NUMA nodes). But beyond that, there's no involvement of the scheduler, conductor, etc. other than the usual translating flavor-ness to placement-ness etc. | 14:24 |
| bauzas | cdent: so, could you please explain why you consider the definition of the tree to be virt-specific ? | 14:24 |
| efried | but on the other hand - and here's where I think I'm entering bauzas-land - we'd like to be able to "advise" the modeling such that the op experience is as similar as possible for whatever virt driver. | 14:25 |
| bauzas | my main worries are coming from the fact that there could be high chances that a tree could differ between a libvirt implementation and a, let's say, hyper-v | 14:25 |
| cdent | Is that a bad thing? We want the tree to represent the truth, yes? | 14:26 |
| efried | bauzas: Perhaps cdent is saying that's going to be unavoidable, and we should butt out and let it happen. | 14:26 |
| mriedem | is it unavoidable? | 14:26 |
| bauzas | cdent: from a placement perspective, I feel it could be a pain if the trees differ for explaining the same architecture | 14:26 |
| jaypipes | cdent: ++ | 14:26 |
| mriedem | we try to have a consistent compute REST API across various virt drivers right? | 14:26 |
| cdent | If the architectures are different, then what is represented should be different. | 14:27 |
| mriedem | i.e. we don't want to add more things like 'agent builds' that are only implemented by one virt driver anymore | 14:27 |
| jaypipes | bauzas: from a placement perspective, placement doesn't really care :) | 14:27 |
| bauzas | cdent: I don't disagree with that | 14:27 |
| bauzas | cdent: if architectures are differnt | 14:27 |
| cdent | So if hyperv "sees" something different from libvirt, it should be different in the provider tree(s) | 14:27 |
| bauzas | cdent: but if the same architecture, then placement should see the same thing | 14:27 |
| bauzas | cdent: again, I don't disagree with that | 14:27 |
| efried | It's the op experience we'd like to try to smooth. But yeah, not at the cost of wedging e.g. a square libvirt peg into a round hyperv hole. | 14:28 |
| jaypipes | bauzas: placement is charged with determining the allocation requests against resource providers that meet the required resource and trait constraints. It's not in charge of determining whether the structure of the resource providers being created by its clients are "correct" or not. | 14:28 |
| bauzas | anyway, I need to leave | 14:28 |
| bauzas | I'll pound that concern | 14:28 |
| bauzas | actually, generating a new module and describing an interface is a bit of work for me | 14:28 |
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| bauzas | so, if consensus is, "meh, let's wait other virt drivers to implement their own NUMA features"', I'm fine keeping the description in libvirt for the moment | 14:29 |
| bauzas | less work, yeepeee | 14:29 |
| * bauzas rushes ou(t | 14:29 | |
| edleafe | ok, bauzas is gone, so let's start gossiping about him | 14:29 |
| edleafe | :) | 14:29 |
| edleafe | Anything else on specs? | 14:30 |
| jaypipes | ok, next topic? | 14:30 |
| gibi | regarding #link Network bandwidth resource provider https://review.openstack.org/#/c/502306/ | 14:30 |
| gibi | Starting this Friday I will dissapear for two weeks (honeymoon) so I'd like to settle all the remaining crazyness in the spec this week if possible. | 14:30 |
| gibi | The related neturon spec work will continue without interruption. | 14:30 |
| cdent | woot, congrats | 14:31 |
| jaypipes | WAIT! WHAT!? | 14:31 |
| gibi | cdent: thanks :) | 14:31 |
| jaypipes | indeed, congrats giblet! :) | 14:31 |
| * edleafe likes the way gibi snuck that in | 14:31 | |
| gibi | so I will bug you guys this week for review | 14:31 |
| jaypipes | gibi: agreed, then on finalizing the spec. | 14:31 |
| jaypipes | gibi: np | 14:31 |
| edleafe | reviews will be your wedding present | 14:32 |
| jaypipes | hahah | 14:32 |
| gibi | edleafe: :) | 14:32 |
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| gibi | I think we can move to the next topic :) | 14:33 |
| edleafe | #topic Reviews | 14:33 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Reviews (Meeting topic: nova_scheduler)" | 14:33 | |
| edleafe | Here's a dump of what is on the agenda: | 14:33 |
| edleafe | #link Update Provider Tree https://review.openstack.org/#/q/topic:bp/update-provider-tree | 14:33 |
| edleafe | #link Request Filters https://review.openstack.org/#/q/topic:bp/placement-req-filter | 14:33 |
| edleafe | #link Nested providers in allocation candidates https://review.openstack.org/#/q/topic:bp/nested-resource-providers https://review.openstack.org/#/q/topic:bp/nested-resource-providers-allocation-candidates | 14:33 |
| edleafe | #link Mirror nova host aggregates to placement https://review.openstack.org/#/q/topic:bp/placement-mirror-host-aggregates | 14:33 |
| edleafe | #link Forbidden Traits https://review.openstack.org/#/q/topic:bp/placement-forbidden-traits | 14:33 |
| edleafe | #link Consumer Generations Just started; no patches posted yet. | 14:34 |
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| edleafe | #link Extraction https://review.openstack.org/#/q/topic:bp/placement-extract | 14:34 |
| edleafe | Anyone have a question/concern about any of these? | 14:34 |
| jaypipes | nope. | 14:34 |
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| cdent | I have a query about reviewing in general in a world of runways: Is _all_ of placement non runway oriented? How are we wanting that to work? | 14:35 |
| jaypipes | cdent: good question. no idea. | 14:35 |
| edleafe | My understanding was that runways were for non-priority things | 14:35 |
| efried | It was originally | 14:36 |
| edleafe | Y'know, to give them some attention | 14:36 |
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| edleafe | efried: ...and it changed? | 14:36 |
| efried | but I think we're shifting from that to making it more of a generalized queue for "this is ready, let's get focus on it" | 14:36 |
| cdent | What I'm trying to figure out is which of the placement stuff needs to go in the queue, and which doesn't | 14:36 |
| cdent | If it's all, that's cool (and I think I'd actually prefer that for sake of one rule to bind them) | 14:36 |
| efried | right; IMO, KISS and queue stuff up for a runway when it meets the other criteria. | 14:37 |
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| efried | There seemed to be some agreement on that, though we never like voted or anything. | 14:37 |
| dansmith | everything goes into runways | 14:37 |
| dansmith | blueprints go into runways, so a placement blueprint would get a slot for a while | 14:37 |
| jaypipes | are we doing the runways stuff already or were we waiting for the spec review day (tomorrow) to be done? | 14:37 |
| dansmith | like anything else | 14:37 |
| cdent | starts day after spec day | 14:37 |
| dansmith | jaypipes: starting after tomorrow | 14:38 |
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| jaypipes | k | 14:38 |
| jaypipes | I have no issues with dealing with placement like anything else. | 14:38 |
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| cdent | cool | 14:39 |
| edleafe | So... nothing more regarding reviews? | 14:39 |
| mriedem | i guess i have something | 14:40 |
| mriedem | remember the ironic flavor / trait migration? | 14:40 |
| edleafe | yeah | 14:40 |
| mriedem | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/527541/ i've been pushing that since queens, and meant to backport to pike | 14:40 |
| mriedem | kind of want to know if i should just abandon that | 14:40 |
| mriedem | i don't think we should do a hard drop of that migratoin code in the driver until nova-status supports it, | 14:41 |
| mriedem | but there doesn't seem to be much interest | 14:41 |
| jaypipes | mriedem: I just wasn't aware of that. I can review today. seems important to me. | 14:42 |
| edleafe | huh, I thought that merged a while ago | 14:42 |
| cdent | suspect it just fell off radar | 14:42 |
| edleafe | put it on a runway! | 14:42 |
| mriedem | it's not a bp | 14:42 |
| mriedem | but thanks | 14:42 |
| edleafe | Any other reviews to discuss? | 14:43 |
| edleafe | Guess not | 14:45 |
| edleafe | #topic Bugs | 14:45 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Bugs (Meeting topic: nova_scheduler)" | 14:45 | |
| edleafe | #link Placement bugs https://bugs.launchpad.net/nova/+bugs?field.tag=placement&orderby=-id | 14:45 |
| mriedem | there is a bug re placement we've talked about in gibi's bw provider spec, | 14:45 |
| mriedem | but not sure we actually opened a bug to track it, | 14:45 |
| mriedem | has to do with cleaning up allocations when deleting an instance but the compute service it's running on is down | 14:45 |
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| mriedem | if no one remembers opening a bug for that i can circle back | 14:46 |
| gibi | mriedem: I haven't opened it | 14:46 |
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| cdent | that's something different from 'local delete'? | 14:46 |
| gibi | cdent: local delete + decomission compute host | 14:47 |
| cdent | https://bugs.launchpad.net/nova/+bug/1679750 | 14:47 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1679750 in OpenStack Compute (nova) pike "Allocations are not cleaned up in placement for instance 'local delete' case" [Medium,Confirmed] | 14:47 |
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| mriedem | that's the one | 14:47 |
| * mriedem thanks his past self | 14:47 | |
| cdent | your past self is clever | 14:47 |
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| cdent | we done with bugs? | 14:49 |
| edleafe | Anything more on bugs? | 14:49 |
| * cdent blinks | 14:49 | |
| edleafe | #topic Open discussion | 14:50 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: nova_scheduler)" | 14:50 | |
| edleafe | So... what's on your collective minds? | 14:50 |
| cdent | This is not a priority, but I'd like to get some feedback on https://review.openstack.org/#/c/552927/ , which is the spec for optional db setting in placement. | 14:50 |
| cdent | It allows ... options ... when working with placement that are handy | 14:50 |
| cdent | But if you don't do anything different, it all works the same as it does now | 14:51 |
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| edleafe | If it makes the eventual separation of placement from nova go more smoothly for operators, ++ | 14:51 |
| cdent | there's some discussion in the spec about how it is but one of several options | 14:52 |
| cdent | but also some of why I think it is the better one | 14:52 |
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| * bauzas is back for 6 mins, yay | 14:54 | |
| edleafe | cdent: ok, I'll re-review | 14:55 |
| cdent | thanks | 14:55 |
| edleafe | Anything else for today? | 14:55 |
| edleafe | OK, thanks everyone! | 14:56 |
| edleafe | #endmeeting | 14:56 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/" | 14:56 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Mon Mar 26 14:56:25 2018 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 14:56 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova_scheduler/2018/nova_scheduler.2018-03-26-14.00.html | 14:56 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova_scheduler/2018/nova_scheduler.2018-03-26-14.00.txt | 14:56 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova_scheduler/2018/nova_scheduler.2018-03-26-14.00.log.html | 14:56 |
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| bauzas | DST | 14:58 |
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| corvus | howdy zuul folks? | 22:00 |
| clarkb | hello (though I'm only sort of here) | 22:00 |
| fungi | mmm, yep | 22:00 |
| corvus | oh good. howdy zuul folks! | 22:00 |
| pabelanger | hello | 22:01 |
| * Shrews taps mic | 22:01 | |
| kittens | hi | 22:01 |
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| fungi | aloha | 22:01 |
| corvus | #startmeeting zuul | 22:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Mon Mar 26 22:01:54 2018 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is corvus. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 22:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 22:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: zuul)" | 22:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'zuul' | 22:01 |
| corvus | #link agenda https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/Zuul | 22:02 |
| corvus | #link previous meeting http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/zuul/2018/zuul.2018-03-19-22.03.html | 22:02 |
| corvus | #topic Action items | 22:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Action items (Meeting topic: zuul)" | 22:02 | |
| corvus | corvus attempt to help with storyboard private story notification fix | 22:02 |
| corvus | so i haven't gotten very far with that | 22:02 |
| Shrews | we didn't encourage you enough | 22:02 |
| corvus | er, i should clarify | 22:02 |
| corvus | i tried again really hard | 22:02 |
| corvus | and still didn't get anywhere | 22:02 |
| jlk | o/ | 22:03 |
| corvus | the test infrastructure around this in storyboard is not functioning the way i expect, and i'm at a loss for how to fix it | 22:03 |
| jlk | (only half paying attention, please ping me if I'm needed) | 22:03 |
| corvus | so we need to decide if we're okay living with the fact that we won't get email about critical security bugs | 22:04 |
| corvus | or if we want to do something else | 22:04 |
| fungi | that's depressing. i'd like it to not be the case, but am dealing with my own "why did tests not catch this?" moment in sb now as well | 22:04 |
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| corvus | yeah, i'd also love to have the time to work on a systemic fix to the issue i'm running into, but it would be a *large* change | 22:04 |
| corvus | i know how to do that, but don't have time. i do have time to make a small change, but don't know how. | 22:05 |
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| Shrews | what's our other option? or is there none? | 22:06 |
| corvus | we could try to peridocally poll storyboard with a cron. however, in pure coincidence, the cron i have running for the zuulv3 dashboard just started timing out. i don't know if the same would be true for a query for private stories. | 22:06 |
| corvus | i could try it and see. | 22:06 |
| corvus | that's one option. another might be to create a mailing list for folks to send security bug reports to. either the entire report, or just a notification after they create a bug. | 22:06 |
| corvus | honestly, if we can work around this with a cron job, that's *probably* the slightly safer/friendler path. | 22:06 |
| corvus | (for reporters) | 22:07 |
| corvus | it's probably a bit more work on our part to make sure the cronjob doesn't bitrot | 22:07 |
| corvus | (also, could be a periodic job in zuul, doesn't need to be cron ;) | 22:07 |
| fungi | i'm wondering if the recent api slowness is limited to searches by story tag since that's where i've mainly noticed it so far. more of a topic for #storyboard but it may mean that searching on other criteria is not currently slow | 22:07 |
| corvus | fungi: good point | 22:08 |
| corvus | so maybe i should try writing an automated query for this and report back? | 22:08 |
| fungi | however, i also haven't looked to determine whether you can query by private-ness | 22:08 |
| corvus | fungi: hopefully 'list all zuul stories' doesn't become prohibitively expensive :) | 22:08 |
| pabelanger | crontab seems like a good next step | 22:09 |
| corvus | #action corvus write automated query for private zuul stories (to find security issues) | 22:09 |
| corvus | the other action item from last week is: corvus create some remote tests for zuul-stream | 22:09 |
| corvus | i did that. i think they merged! | 22:09 |
| corvus | #topic Why not tagging the current master, e.g. release early, release often? (tristanC) | 22:10 |
| fungi | fair, if zuul has _that_ many stories before sb performance improves, then maybe we're doing something wrong ;) | 22:10 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Why not tagging the current master, e.g. release early, release often? (tristanC) (Meeting topic: zuul)" | 22:10 | |
| corvus | tristanC is not here | 22:10 |
| corvus | but i guess the topic is self-explanatory :) | 22:10 |
| clarkb | a beta release wouldn't be the worst thing imo (especially if github thing is fixable at this point) | 22:11 |
| corvus | my straightforward answer to that question is that as soon as we are able to release, we will. | 22:11 |
| clarkb | but ya I realize ^ | 22:11 |
| fungi | could do zuul 3.0.0.0rc1 or something i suppose | 22:12 |
| corvus | i know of two issues: | 22:12 |
| corvus | 1) javascript -- mordred has some changes that he thinks we should merge now because otherwise, migrating folks later will be painful/impossible | 22:12 |
| corvus | (as in, we've got at least one more case where we must merge a change then go do manual things to make it work) | 22:13 |
| corvus | we don't want to be landing those kinds of changes in the future | 22:13 |
| * mordred hopes to have that in shape for folks by tomorrow morning | 22:13 | |
| * mordred currently on very bad in0-flight wifi | 22:13 | |
| corvus | 2) github3.py -- we're still in the position where if we get a working release of this before item #1 clears, great! otherwise, we need to vendor it before release. | 22:14 |
| corvus | either way, i think those both preclude releasing master at this point | 22:14 |
| pabelanger | wfm | 22:14 |
| clarkb | corvus: it was mentioned by tobiash that the github3.py issue for license api thing is fixed? I guess it just needs a release now? | 22:15 |
| corvus | however, once we do release, we need to do one more thing, then we can return to our pattern of releasing frequently. like, maybe every few weeks. | 22:15 |
| corvus | clarkb: oh i missed that! | 22:15 |
| corvus | maybe it's time to ping jlk :) | 22:15 |
| clarkb | jlk can probably confirm | 22:15 |
| jlk | So. | 22:15 |
| jlk | I think we fixed at least some of the issue tobiash found, but maybe not all | 22:15 |
| corvus | #info release is blocked by some pending javascript patches (mordred to prepare ASAP) | 22:16 |
| jlk | and I've been really bad about being able to set up something to validate, so it'd be helpful if we could get a fresh attempt by tobiash | 22:16 |
| corvus | #action mordred propose release-blocking javascript patches | 22:16 |
| jlk | There hasn't been a release, so he'd have to test from develop branch. If we can confirm, I can do the work to make a release happen | 22:16 |
| corvus | #action tobiash test most recent github3.py to see if it's ready to release | 22:16 |
| corvus | sweet! hopefully, with the magic of timezones, he can do that while i'm asleep :) | 22:17 |
| jlk | There have been other GitHub Enterprise folks testing and they've found at least one other issue that has an open PR, so I'm not sure if that effects tobiash or not | 22:18 |
| corvus | #info ping jlk with github3.py test results to make release | 22:18 |
| corvus | jlk: have a link handy? | 22:18 |
| jlk | digging itup | 22:19 |
| jlk | https://github.com/sigmavirus24/github3.py/pull/813 is the pr | 22:19 |
| jlk | https://github.com/sigmavirus24/github3.py/issues/794 is the (closed perhaps too early) issue | 22:20 |
| fungi | good ol' sigmavirus24 | 22:20 |
| * prometheanfire misses sigmavirus | 22:20 | |
| corvus | #link https://github.com/sigmavirus24/github3.py/issues/794 closed github enterprise issue | 22:20 |
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| corvus | #link https://github.com/sigmavirus24/github3.py/pull/813 potential github enterprise issue? | 22:20 |
| fungi | electrofelix reported that issue? | 22:20 |
| fungi | small world | 22:21 |
| corvus | both in fact :) | 22:21 |
| pabelanger | nice | 22:22 |
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| corvus | i think that's it for this subject... | 22:23 |
| corvus | #topic Open Discussion | 22:23 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: zuul)" | 22:23 | |
| jlk | Do we know electrofelix? | 22:23 |
| corvus | jlk: oh, yes, he's a contributor to jenkins-job-builder, and some other openstack-infra-related projects | 22:24 |
| corvus | that's his nick in irc; can often be found in #openstack-infra or #zuul | 22:24 |
| fungi | a.k.a. pelix | 22:25 |
| corvus | oh that name is new to me | 22:25 |
| fungi | jjb core reviewer | 22:25 |
| fungi | he was pelix for a while beforee electrofelix | 22:26 |
| corvus | in other news, i think i'm pretty close to getting git.zuul-ci.org up and running | 22:26 |
| pabelanger | I have an awkward patch up for ipv6 support in zuul: https://review.openstack.org/556327/ would love to discuss that this week. | 22:26 |
| corvus | it will be especially nice to be able to tell people to use "https://git.zuul-ci.org/zuul-jobs" | 22:27 |
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| pabelanger | yah, that would be good | 22:27 |
| pabelanger | and cool | 22:27 |
| Shrews | pabelanger: is there an equivalent patch for nodepool? | 22:27 |
| jlk | corvus: oh! I wonder then if he's another zuul + github user | 22:28 |
| pabelanger | Shrews: yah, that merged this morning https://review.openstack.org/556209/ | 22:28 |
| Shrews | ah, ok. missed that | 22:28 |
| fungi | though biggest impact for zuul-{base-,}jobs since it goes in everyone's config if they want to cd our stdlib | 22:29 |
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| corvus | jlk: if not currently, i'm given to understand, he'd like to be :) | 22:29 |
| corvus | i missed that too | 22:29 |
| corvus | i'd really like it if we stopped merging changes without docs | 22:30 |
| corvus | in fact, i'm going to propose a revert of that | 22:30 |
| corvus | we have past the point where we should merge a change without tests and docs | 22:30 |
| clarkb | thats awkward that statsd has to have an explicit ipv6 flag | 22:31 |
| corvus | yeah, i assume it's because it's udp? | 22:31 |
| clarkb | maybe instead of a flag we just detect if it is an ipv4 addr or ipv6 and do the right thing? | 22:31 |
| Shrews | clarkb++ | 22:31 |
| pabelanger | we can do that, but no way to stop statsd from then detecting it again | 22:31 |
| corvus | clarkb: we'd need to know if the ipv6 address is routable from us, right? | 22:32 |
| clarkb | corvus: yes, I think assuming it is if you have global ipv6 address is mostly safe | 22:32 |
| pabelanger | https://github.com/jsocol/pystatsd/blob/master/statsd/client.py#L152 is how it works today in statsd. If we want to propose a change, I'm okay witht hat | 22:32 |
| clarkb | (this seems to be behavior of most applications) | 22:32 |
| corvus | clarkb: yeah, i'd prefer that approach too | 22:33 |
| fungi | yeah, if both are global then fine, otherwise that's not entirely trivial to determine | 22:33 |
| corvus | so basically, do a lookup of the host, see if it has a global ipv6 address, if so, see if we do, if so, set the ipv6 flag... | 22:33 |
| corvus | (why doesn't py-statsd do that?) | 22:33 |
| fungi | and "happy eyeballs" approaches don't work so well for connectionless datagrams | 22:34 |
| corvus | if someone had an internal (not global) statsd server only on ipv6, this scheme wouldn't work for them. they'd need a flag. | 22:35 |
| corvus | oh, there's one more thing related to releases i should mention -- | 22:36 |
| clarkb | its unfortunate that is even a thing considering ipv6's available address space being there to avoid that problem entirely | 22:36 |
| fungi | but yeah, if you're hoping to take a non-global route to a v6 destination they can't reach via v4, then maybe the onus is on them to make dns only resolve the thing they can reach or use an address literal? | 22:36 |
| corvus | fungi: yeah, that might be enough of a workaround | 22:37 |
| corvus | after we do release 3.0.0, and before we release 3.0.1 -- we should land support for reno. i don't want to do it before 3.0.0 (because i don't want to even pretend we can write those release notes). but going forward, i'd like zuul and nodepool to have real release notes. | 22:37 |
| corvus | so that basically means that's the first post 3.0.0 thing we need to land | 22:37 |
| pabelanger | so, use socket.getaddrinfo() again to detect if ipv6, then setup flag on statsd client. wfm | 22:38 |
| corvus | pabelanger: yeah, let's give that a shot. because i think we all agree this option is weird. :) | 22:38 |
| pabelanger | indeed | 22:39 |
| fungi | pabelanger: not quite as simple as all that, need to check that you have a global route i think? but basically yes | 22:39 |
| corvus | fungi: check the route, or check to see if we have a global ipv6 address? | 22:40 |
| pabelanger | fungi: okay, I was going to use the same logic for fingergw we did for ipv6, I don't think we checked global route there | 22:41 |
| fungi | well one or the other should work, just pointing out it's not sufficient to check that socket.getaddrinfo() works via v6 | 22:41 |
| pabelanger | fungi: okay, maybe after meeting we can look at https://review.openstack.org/551015/ and see if we'd have the same issue | 22:43 |
| fungi | yep, we can hash it out outside the meeting for sure | 22:43 |
| corvus | i had an action item a while back to follow up on the meeting time change. i did not do that last week, but have started doing it this week. | 22:44 |
| corvus | i don't think there's a way we can make everyone happy, so i'll probably end up making an executive decision one way or the other. however, there's another alternative i'd like us to consider: | 22:44 |
| corvus | end the practice of regular meetings and focus more on mailing list discussions for wide dissemination/collection of information, and ad-hoc irc discussions for when that's not practical | 22:45 |
| corvus | as the folks who randomly showed up to today's meeting, what do you think about that? :) | 22:45 |
| Shrews | wfm | 22:46 |
| pabelanger | I admit, i like the structure IRC meetings, but happy to try something new if people would like | 22:46 |
| fungi | as a completely non-representative sample, i think it would be nice to venture headlong into this new governance unencumbered by the baggage of weekly meetings | 22:46 |
| clarkb | I know monty struggles with mailing lists based on some recent conversations. But I imagine ad hoc conversations can get him pointed to relevant threads as needed | 22:47 |
| fungi | culturally the openstack community has used scheduled meetings as a crutch to avoid discussing over mailing lists | 22:47 |
| fungi | would be nice to see if not having scheduled meetings reduced that tendency | 22:48 |
| clarkb | I also have a really hard time with threads that get outlooked, but maybe I just need a better tactic for dealing with those | 22:48 |
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| corvus | it's really hard to get to a decision on a mailing list. so it will require we develop some different skills. | 22:49 |
| fungi | go from "i should add that to the agenda for some upcoming meeting which may be a week away and might already be too overbooked to get to my topic" to "i'll post to the mailing list about this now" | 22:49 |
| corvus | and yeah, meetings provide a structure, timeboxed by their nature, which we will have to be cognizant of. (bi-?)weekly summaries may help with that. | 22:49 |
| jlk | I'm pretty bad about email for this project, but I can respond to random channel pings for data | 22:49 |
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| clarkb | corvus: re making decisions and lack of time boxes maybe once a thread has had reasonable conversation we set a N day timer on completing the decision making | 22:50 |
| pabelanger | yah, summaries might help with that | 22:50 |
| corvus | also, we have a dedicated mailing list, which may make it a bit easier for folks to deal with than, for instance, openstack-dev. | 22:50 |
| clarkb | similar to specs I uess | 22:50 |
| pabelanger | +1 to trying MLs | 22:51 |
| corvus | okay, maybe i'll reply to the ml thread about the meeting time with the suggestion we consider terminating it. | 22:51 |
| corvus | i'll indicate in this meeting, at least, we saw some value to the meeting, but there wasn't widespread revolt | 22:52 |
| fungi | i don't find the meetings useless, but concede they may be an antipattern | 22:53 |
| corvus | probably the biggest thing is that it's an hour where we all actually plan on talking about zuul. for those of us with multiple hats, that can be surprisingly important. | 22:53 |
| corvus | ^ (for me) | 22:53 |
| fungi | fair! | 22:53 |
| pabelanger | ++ | 22:54 |
| corvus | but it's an hour that several other people plan on being asleep during, so... there you have it :) | 22:54 |
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| corvus | anything else, or should we wrap it up? | 22:55 |
| fungi | i'm good | 22:55 |
| Shrews | fwiw, ML discussions have been extremely valuable (e.g., the zk retry stuff), but was surprisingly lacking on much participation. not sure if an IRC meeting would be much better (or worse) | 22:56 |
| Shrews | just more food (mmmm, food) for thought | 22:57 |
| ianw | personally i like the meetings, as someone quite remote it's often very vaulable to get decisions made in them | 22:57 |
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| corvus | ianw: if we do keep it, maybe we could be more strict about the agenda (so people can more reliably anticipate if they should attend), and cancel it if there's nothing on it. | 22:58 |
| corvus | ianw: otoh, we could ping the folks active on an email thread and say "hey, so how about we decide on that thing we were emailing about" | 22:59 |
| corvus | thanks all! | 23:00 |
| corvus | #endmeeting | 23:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/" | 23:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Mon Mar 26 23:00:12 2018 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 23:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/zuul/2018/zuul.2018-03-26-22.01.html | 23:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/zuul/2018/zuul.2018-03-26-22.01.txt | 23:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/zuul/2018/zuul.2018-03-26-22.01.log.html | 23:00 |
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