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| mkoderer | hi | 14:00 |
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| ajo | hi | 14:01 |
| ajo | NFV meeting? | 14:01 |
| DaSchab_ | hi | 14:01 |
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| madhumohan | hi | 14:02 |
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| * sgordon_ sheepishly wanders in | 14:03 | |
| sgordon_ | #startmeeting telcowg | 14:03 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Dec 3 14:03:37 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is sgordon_. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 14:03 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 14:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: telcowg)" | 14:03 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'telcowg' | 14:03 |
| sgordon_ | #topic roll call | 14:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "roll call (Meeting topic: telcowg)" | 14:03 | |
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| ian_ott | hi | 14:03 |
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| ybabenko | hi | 14:03 |
| mkoderer | hi | 14:03 |
| DaSchab | hi | 14:03 |
| TheDarkKhan | Hi | 14:04 |
| pczesno | hi | 14:04 |
| rprakash | hi | 14:04 |
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| cgoncalves | hello | 14:04 |
| gmatefi | hi | 14:04 |
| madhumohan | Hi | 14:04 |
| sgordon_ | hi all, sorry for the delay | 14:04 |
| rprakash | yes telcowg | 14:04 |
| ajo | hi :) | 14:04 |
| sgordon_ | looks like i forgot to update my calendar | 14:04 |
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| sgordon_ | #topic use cases | 14:05 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "use cases (Meeting topic: telcowg)" | 14:05 | |
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| sgordon_ | i endeavored to update the wiki page to provide some guidance on contributing use cases | 14:05 |
| sgordon_ | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/TelcoWorkingGroup/UseCases#Contributing_Use_Cases | 14:05 |
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| sgordon_ | and i see jrakerevelant has started a new entry: | 14:05 |
| sgordon_ | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/TelcoWorkingGroup/UseCases#Access_to_physical_network_resources | 14:05 |
| sgordon_ | did anyone have a chance to look at these? | 14:06 |
| rprakash | you mean | 14:06 |
| rprakash | https://global.gotomeeting.com/join/842007621 | 14:06 |
| sgordon_ | probably not as they were created in the last 24 hrs i am guessing | 14:06 |
| sgordon_ | rprakash, ? | 14:07 |
| rprakash | sorry delete thst | 14:07 |
| rprakash | v | 14:07 |
| DaSchab | link to nfv draft is broken | 14:07 |
| rprakash | Possible current implementations include: | 14:07 |
| rprakash | L3 gateways | 14:07 |
| rprakash | SNAT | 14:07 |
| rprakash | L3 forwarding | 14:07 |
| rprakash | Floating IPs | 14:07 |
| rprakash | External provider networks, e.g. VLAN backed | 14:07 |
| rprakash | L2 gateways, currently only possible with 3rd party software (? | 14:07 |
| ian_ott | not yet, thanks for proposing the template | 14:08 |
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| sgordon_ | DaSchab, looks like somebody modified it to point to a docbox | 14:08 |
| sgordon_ | i had actually originally uploaded the pdf to the wiki | 14:08 |
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| rprakash | I wanted to see GTP tunneling added and will be working on revising an old Blue Print | 14:09 |
| ybabenko | should we concentrate on "services" or "features" when we speak about usecases | 14:09 |
| sgordon_ | ybabenko, so that is what i have tried to help frame | 14:09 |
| ybabenko | currently we have a mix : two "services" and one "feature" | 14:10 |
| sgordon_ | consensus last week seemed to be that we want to focus on "what" we want to do | 14:10 |
| sgordon_ | instead of "how" | 14:10 |
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| ybabenko | I think we should target features of openstack which are either missing or are not there ß | 14:10 |
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| sgordon_ | that is we should use the use cases to THEN extract requirements | 14:10 |
| sgordon_ | ybabenko, the problem is without a documented use case, can you get them added to openstack | 14:11 |
| sgordon_ | the answer is increasingly, no | 14:11 |
| margaret__ | hi | 14:11 |
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| sgordon_ | for those coming in we're discussing https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/TelcoWorkingGroup/UseCases | 14:11 |
| rprakash | AT the Paris Summit there were dicussions on what to do | 14:11 |
| jrakerevelant | hi | 14:12 |
| jrakerevelant | sry for being late | 14:12 |
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| rprakash | Since neutron dnsmaq is being replaced the code for any change for telcowg in neutron will be unstable | 14:12 |
| sgordon_ | rprakash, yes - and one of the big items was to work harder on documenting use cases that we can then use to define and drive requirements | 14:13 |
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| mkoderer | sgordon_: btw should we have reviews on that use-cases? I just wondering if gerrit would make more sense.. | 14:14 |
| rprakash | OK I added one for Mobile Carrier - "GTP tunnel support for mobile network for NFV VNFs like SGW, PGW, MME (https://blueprints.launchpad.net/neutron/+spec/provider-network.type-gtp -needs update for resubmission) | 14:14 |
| sgordon_ | mkoderer, my thinking is that git/gerrit is a bit too heavy to get contributions from the people we want to hear from | 14:14 |
| sgordon_ | particularly operator | 14:14 |
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| rprakash | THE BP is old one duing quatum time frame and anyone who wants to help me update is welcome | 14:15 |
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| sgordon_ | mkoderer, ideally the use case ends up in the problem statement of blueprint(s) and is reviewed via gerrit then | 14:15 |
| mkoderer | sgordon_: I just have the feeling that we end-up with many use-cases in totally different state and nobody reads them ;) | 14:16 |
| rprakash | How many use cases we are planning to have for operators this K12? | 14:16 |
| jrakerevelant | sgordon_: since i was late, did i miss any comments on my use case? | 14:16 |
| mkoderer | sgordon_: but ure right... gerrit would be too heavy | 14:16 |
| sgordon_ | mkoderer, rprakash i think i'll worry about upper limits when we actually have too many coming in | 14:17 |
| sgordon_ | :) | 14:17 |
| mkoderer | k | 14:17 |
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| sgordon_ | mkoderer, rprakash i would like to have 6 as a start to have a good baseline | 14:17 |
| sgordon_ | and agree the quality is variable | 14:17 |
| rprakash | I did not see any discussions on any use case lets begin with number 1 | 14:17 |
| sgordon_ | primarily atm there is very little editing of the wiki page aside from one or two individuals | 14:17 |
| sgordon_ | the first two use cases were contributed loose cycle and agree, they dont necessarily meet the framing we discussed last week | 14:18 |
| rprakash | Is Virtual IMS the first one? | 14:18 |
| sgordon_ | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/TelcoWorkingGroup/UseCases#Session_Border_Controller | 14:18 |
| sgordon_ | no the SBC | 14:18 |
| sgordon_ | i actually like the high level desc and characteristics put forward here | 14:19 |
| sgordon_ | as calum did try somewhat to keep characteristics and requirements as separate things | 14:19 |
| sgordon_ | any other thoughts? | 14:19 |
| ybabenko | Why use-cases is referring to a particular vendor? | 14:19 |
| ybabenko | Perimeta Session Border Controller, Metaswitch Networks. | 14:19 |
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| rprakash | The SBC use case is folowed bt bunch of requirements that are mostly completed in Juno | 14:20 |
| jrakerevelant | so an application as a "use case" is desirable? | 14:20 |
| ybabenko | jrakerevelant: see discussion above | 14:20 |
| jrakerevelant | or shouldnt it be application : one or more use cases? | 14:20 |
| margaret__ | An application as a use case helps focus all the features/gaps that need to be filled | 14:20 |
| sgordon_ | ybabenko, because they submitted it | 14:20 |
| sgordon_ | ybabenko, other vendors are welcome to do same | 14:20 |
| jrakerevelant | ybabenko: oh sorry | 14:21 |
| margaret__ | Else we get into a theoretical debate. I like the use case since it focuses on performance | 14:21 |
| sgordon_ | ybabenko, theoretically different implementations of same function may have different requirements | 14:21 |
| ybabenko | sgordon_: that is fine as long as we stay vendor neutrol in wiki | 14:21 |
| mkoderer | I guess the best way would be if Telcos would summit the use-cases :) | 14:21 |
| dalgaaf | I would prefer to make it generic and independent of vendors | 14:21 |
| sgordon_ | mkoderer, ++++++1 | 14:21 |
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| sgordon_ | dalgaaf, great - generic use case is welcomed too | 14:22 |
| rprakash | The seesion border use cas case will be a simple VoiP call from end point 1 to end point 2 | 14:22 |
| margaret__ | But the VNF vendors are will the rubber meets the road for the telcos | 14:22 |
| jrakerevelant | mkoderer: hey we did submit one :) | 14:22 |
| dalgaaf | would we even be able to check this use case against this vendors app from the openstack side? | 14:22 |
| mkoderer | jrakerevelant: yeahh :) | 14:22 |
| margaret__ | The SBC is focused on performance and the types of things which need to be configured to meet that which impacts openstack | 14:22 |
| sgordon_ | dalgaaf, the key question for me is - are you willing to propose a generic version of the use case | 14:22 |
| sgordon_ | if the answer is no | 14:22 |
| jrakerevelant | mkoderer: I still need to refine it though | 14:22 |
| sgordon_ | then i am inclined to keep what we have | 14:23 |
| sgordon_ | the more people helping with collating of relevant use cases, ideally from providers | 14:23 |
| sgordon_ | the less this becomes an issue | 14:23 |
| rprakash | Sure the VoiP call has o meet those criterion listed on site and we can quatify them like 150 ms end to end delay etc. | 14:23 |
| jrakerevelant | sgordon_: +1 | 14:23 |
| margaret__ | If you look in details (which i only started doing now) - the SBC features drive features needed for high performance VNFs | 14:23 |
| sgordon_ | right | 14:24 |
| margaret__ | So unless you find a specific example that metaswitch suggested which is only useful for their app - i say we accept their proposal | 14:24 |
| sgordon_ | calum intentionally took his high level characteristics | 14:24 |
| jrakerevelant | rprakash: QoS will be one of the hardest things to implement anyway, why not start with low hanging fruit? | 14:24 |
| sgordon_ | and then spelled out what that means | 14:24 |
| margaret__ | We need another use case that is focused more on instantiation of VNFs. | 14:25 |
| ybabenko | jrakerevelant: QoS and troughput performane with small packets | 14:25 |
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| rprakash | THE QoS of one call in terms of RTT, delay, jitter,BW of 1 session and then comes the capacity of VNF for VoIP to handles that capacity as a VM | 14:25 |
| rprakash | say 1 million sessions per VNF | 14:26 |
| sgordon_ | #info margaret__ notes we need a use case focussed more on instantiation of VNFs | 14:26 |
| sgordon_ | #info rprakash notes requirements of a VoIP call, impacts on QoS in terms of RTT, delay, jitter, VW of 1 session and then comes the capacity of VNF for VoIP to handles that capacity as a VM | 14:27 |
| jrakerevelant | rprakash: that can only be proven/ disproven with a specific implementation of the function | 14:27 |
| margaret__ | I didn't mean it to be a replacement of SBC proposal - just another angle which flushes out openstack issues | 14:27 |
| rprakash | Some can pickup Asterisk opensource or if Metswicth provides one and model the requirements | 14:27 |
| sgordon_ | margaret__, understood | 14:27 |
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| sgordon_ | i guess what i would like to be able to get to is for a few volunteers with use cases in mind | 14:27 |
| sgordon_ | to take the action item to try and write them up in the next week or so | 14:28 |
| sgordon_ | it does not have to be exhaustive but rather something to get the conversation moving forward | 14:28 |
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| margaret__ | I have been working with another vendor in the OPNFV group on a vPE instantiation - let me see if we can pull this together for this - but I can't attend the next IRCs for the rest of the year | 14:29 |
| sgordon_ | yes understand | 14:29 |
| rprakash | Openstack can provision any VNF using heat template and provide Resources South Bound and API to call Nort Bound and treating VoIP media, all we need to know is how will data call be evaluated in terms of performance matrix we agree for VoIP call and how much the VoIP VNF can handle | 14:29 |
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| sgordon_ | i think if you just shoot us an email margaret__ we can try discuss | 14:30 |
| sgordon_ | i am sure attendance will wane as we get closer to the break for many people | 14:30 |
| rprakash | OK then can we move to case 2 , assign few voluteers o this and move to second | 14:30 |
| mkoderer | sgordon_: we will add use-cases for "securtiy segregation (dmz/mz concept)", VNF instantiation and seperation of Infra/App Orchestration | 14:31 |
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| jrakerevelant | mkoderer: +1 | 14:31 |
| mkoderer | DaSchab will do that ;) | 14:32 |
| sgordon_ | #action margaret__ to work with another vendor in OPNFV group on vPE instantiation use case - will provide via mail (cant attend IRC meetings for remainder of year) | 14:32 |
| rprakash | Security segregation , its using Netwurn Security Group for VNF? using port level blocking etc? | 14:32 |
| jrakerevelant | mkoderer: if it is allowed I can add our examplary LLD | 14:32 |
| sgordon_ | #action mkoderer and DaSchab to work on security segregation (dmz/mz concept), VNF instantiation and seperation of Infra/App Orchestration | 14:32 |
| ybabenko | jrakerevelant: your use-case is basically a HW-GW for legacy services if i understand correctly? | 14:33 |
| jrakerevelant | ybabenko: yes | 14:33 |
| jrakerevelant | jrakerevelant: which is solvable | 14:33 |
| jrakerevelant | ah talking to myself | 14:33 |
| jrakerevelant | ybabenko: which is solvable | 14:33 |
| mkoderer | jrakerevelant: we need to discuss that offline :P | 14:33 |
| jrakerevelant | mkoderer: sure | 14:33 |
| jrakerevelant | ybabenko: it doesnt need to be HW | 14:34 |
| rprakash | where is the link for security Segreegation? | 14:34 |
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| mkoderer | rprakash: no never had a closer look to that | 14:34 |
| sgordon_ | #info jrakerevelant use case is effectively HW-GW for legacy services - though not necessarily HW | 14:34 |
| mkoderer | rprakash: we will add our use-case soon :) | 14:34 |
| DaSchab | ...and we will describe the use-cases in a generic way without vendor specific solutions | 14:34 |
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| rprakash | Note VNF isolation comes at mutiple levles - Tenant, Security Gruops, and may be Firewall and even some policy from orchestartion tweaking Security Groups in neutron, so not clear to me here what specific we want to achieve here | 14:36 |
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| sgordon_ | ok | 14:38 |
| jrakerevelant | rprakash: one of the things you might want to have are separate physical servers for different VMs | 14:38 |
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| sgordon_ | thank you to those who volunteered above, it is much appreciated | 14:38 |
| sgordon_ | #topic orchestration | 14:38 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "orchestration (Meeting topic: telcowg)" | 14:38 | |
| rprakash | HW-GW for legacy not clear to me how itf its the use case as even in OPNFV we want COTS based implementaions | 14:38 |
| sgordon_ | mkoderer, i believe you had added some links to discuss to the agenda? | 14:38 |
| sgordon_ | #chair mkoderer | 14:38 |
| openstack | Current chairs: mkoderer sgordon_ | 14:38 |
| sgordon_ | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2014-November/051473.html | 14:39 |
| jrakerevelant | rprakash: What do you mean, how will I e.g. connect a physical eNodeB to my vEPC | 14:39 |
| mkoderer | yep | 14:39 |
| jrakerevelant | sorry for offtopic | 14:39 |
| mkoderer | #topic Telco Orchestration | 14:39 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Telco Orchestration (Meeting topic: telcowg)" | 14:39 | |
| sgordon_ | np | 14:39 |
| ybabenko | rprakash: we need HW-GW to connect to legacy services .... I would expect to terminate my overlay there | 14:40 |
| mkoderer | so I had several discusstion about orchestration | 14:40 |
| jrakerevelant | we can move that to the ML? | 14:40 |
| jrakerevelant | to close the use case discussion | 14:40 |
| mkoderer | jrakerevelant: +1 | 14:40 |
| sgordon_ | +1 | 14:40 |
| sgordon_ | also it doesn't have to be perfect from the get go | 14:40 |
| sgordon_ | we discuss and we iterate as needed | 14:41 |
| jrakerevelant | please continue mkoderer :) | 14:41 |
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| mkoderer | ok so I try to finalize the document | 14:41 |
| mkoderer | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/telco_orchestration | 14:41 |
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| mkoderer | current state is more or less a brain storming document | 14:41 |
| rprakash | well eNodeB (Physical) to vEPC (virtual) will have a tenant *(carrier) specific link (pipe) that will be secured using the two end point interfaces terminating on those phy/virt devices | 14:41 |
| rprakash | lets move to Orchestartion (sorry folks) | 14:42 |
| mkoderer | so I will work on that the next day and then push it to the wiki | 14:42 |
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| mkoderer | sgordon_: I also included that "internal" and "external" questions | 14:43 |
| sgordon_ | right | 14:43 |
| sgordon_ | i like the framing of it | 14:44 |
| rprakash | This is very extensive staring VNF to template to TOSCA not sure I have studied this to comment but certainly if its for NFV, we need to split this at VIM, VNF , OSS?BSS layaers fpor Orchestration as functions to implement | 14:44 |
| sgordon_ | i think on that thread angus was looking very specifically for examples of "what do you need from heat that we arent addressing today" | 14:44 |
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| sgordon_ | i think some of it is in here and this is a good manifesto | 14:44 |
| rprakash | I will go over it and can I edit ie? | 14:45 |
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| sgordon_ | but we may need to break it up into digestable chunks for consideration | 14:45 |
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| rprakash | or send comment to whoever owns it? | 14:45 |
| mkoderer | rprakash: sure feel free.. you can also respond via M/L | 14:45 |
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| mkoderer | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2014-November/051473.html | 14:45 |
| ybabenko | rprakash: do you have a better suggestion for the format of VNF? how would you like it to be packaged for orhestration? | 14:45 |
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| mkoderer | and there is already an intressting spec for heat that solves some of the internal OpenStack issues | 14:47 |
| mkoderer | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/53313/ | 14:47 |
| mkoderer | so it's multi region support for heat | 14:47 |
| sgordon_ | yes | 14:48 |
| mkoderer | I already talked to the heat ppl.. they would we quite open to help us with our requirments | 14:48 |
| sgordon_ | seems to be making good progress too | 14:48 |
| sgordon_ | yes | 14:48 |
| sgordon_ | i think they need help navigating the acronym soup and getting to the heart of what you need | 14:49 |
| ybabenko | mkoderer: i think we should really make this topic (multi site support) a killer req for NFV so that enough attention is given to it in the community? | 14:49 |
| mkoderer | sgordon_: should I put that document as seperate wiki page under telcowg? | 14:49 |
| sgordon_ | hopefully that is where we can work together :) | 14:49 |
| rprakash | Yes multi-region in heat as a resource is scheduled for Kilo and this will allow disctributed orchestaion of VNFs, but more of such we will have to compile to get orchestartions as its very wide | 14:49 |
| sgordon_ | mkoderer, the etherpad? | 14:49 |
| jrakerevelant | multi-region heat will be great | 14:49 |
| ybabenko | mkoderer: +1 for separate wiki page | 14:49 |
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| mkoderer | sgordon_: at the end when it's "mature" enough | 14:49 |
| sgordon_ | yes i think so | 14:49 |
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| margaret__ | multi-site is a definite for NFV crowd | 14:49 |
| sgordon_ | etherpad is good for continuing to massage the content | 14:49 |
| sgordon_ | #info heat multi-region support progressing well | 14:50 |
| rprakash | We can possibly compile different BPs for Orchetsration together on our telcowg site | 14:50 |
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| sgordon_ | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Heat/Blueprints/Multi_Region_Support_for_Heat | 14:50 |
| sgordon_ | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/heat/+spec/multi-region-support | 14:51 |
| mkoderer | ok fine.. that's all from my side | 14:51 |
| mkoderer | any other topics? | 14:51 |
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| sgordon_ | #topic other business | 14:52 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "other business (Meeting topic: telcowg)" | 14:52 | |
| sgordon_ | i had a question that's actually about a requirement | 14:52 |
| mkoderer | sgordon_: I received a mail about an "Telco WG Ecosystem" meeting | 14:52 |
| sgordon_ | vlan trunking into vms, there are a couple of proposals related to this to at least allow it when using LinuxBridge | 14:53 |
| sgordon_ | im trying to gauge interest/demand in doing something about same for OVS... | 14:53 |
| rprakash | I wanted to add Mobile Network use case for GTP tunneling and will bring it next week | 14:53 |
| sgordon_ | mkoderer, yes carol is setting that up at the moment | 14:53 |
| jrakerevelant | sgordon_: How many people are requesting this? | 14:53 |
| sgordon_ | #action rprakash add ingMobile Network use case for GTP tunneling and will bring it next week | 14:53 |
| sgordon_ | #undo | 14:53 |
| openstack | Removing item from minutes: <ircmeeting.items.Action object at 0x3c43ad0> | 14:53 |
| sgordon_ | #action rprakash adding Mobile Network use case for GTP tunneling and will bring it next week | 14:53 |
| sgordon_ | rprakash, thanks ! | 14:54 |
| sgordon_ | jrakerevelant, that's the million dollar question :) | 14:54 |
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| ybabenko | jrakerevelant: +1 | 14:54 |
| sgordon_ | i believe it's coming up from vEPC use cases, or more specifically implementations thereof | 14:54 |
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| gmatefi | sgordon_ : vlan trunking mainly interesting for packet processing related applications, where linux bridge is not considered to be powerful enough | 14:55 |
| sgordon_ | right | 14:55 |
| sgordon_ | the reason that the work is starting with LB is that doing it for OVS is going to be more...involved | 14:55 |
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| rprakash | Most 3GPP use GTP U & GTP C (v2) and so may split this into two and will think over how to do that in Control and Data planes | 14:56 |
| ybabenko | but this means that you must use OVS, right? | 14:56 |
| ybabenko | but OVS is used only in part of SDN solutions which we would probably see in NFV environment | 14:56 |
| rprakash | Yes it will require OVS in Data Plane (GTP-U) and possibly GTP-C in MME path | 14:56 |
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| rprakash | is it time we leave the floor to neutron-DVR | 14:59 |
| Swami | rprakash: thanks | 14:59 |
| rprakash | Any conclusions for telocwg? | 14:59 |
| jrakerevelant | thanks sgordon_ for hosting | 15:00 |
| sgordon_ | yes it is | 15:00 |
| sgordon_ | lots of volunteers for use cases | 15:00 |
| sgordon_ | which is excellent | 15:00 |
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| mkoderer | thx all | 15:00 |
| sgordon_ | thank you all for that! | 15:00 |
| sgordon_ | #endmeeting | 15:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 15:00 | |
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| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Dec 3 15:00:23 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 15:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/telcowg/2014/telcowg.2014-12-03-14.03.html | 15:00 |
| jrakerevelant | bye | 15:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/telcowg/2014/telcowg.2014-12-03-14.03.txt | 15:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/telcowg/2014/telcowg.2014-12-03-14.03.log.html | 15:00 |
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| Swami | hi dvr folks | 15:01 |
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| Swami | #startmeeting distributed_virtual_router | 15:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Dec 3 15:01:44 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is Swami. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 15:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 15:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: distributed_virtual_router)" | 15:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'distributed_virtual_router' | 15:01 |
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| Swami | ping rajeev | 15:02 |
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| Swami | armax: hi | 15:03 |
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| Swami | #topic agenda | 15:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "agenda (Meeting topic: distributed_virtual_router)" | 15:03 | |
| Swami | DVR update | 15:03 |
| Swami | Bug scrum | 15:03 |
| Swami | Documentation | 15:03 |
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| Swami | Functional testing | 15:04 |
| Swami | Open Discussions | 15:04 |
| rprakash | Anhy links? | 15:04 |
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| Swami | rprakash: Are you looking for the links to the agenda. | 15:04 |
| rprakash | yes | 15:04 |
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| Swami | No I don't have the link to the agenda, this will be updated to the meeting log and we can keep track of it. | 15:05 |
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| Swami | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/Distributed-Virtual-Router | 15:06 |
| Swami | rprakash: you can refer to the meeting minutes from the above link | 15:06 |
| Swami | #topic DVR Update | 15:06 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "DVR Update (Meeting topic: distributed_virtual_router)" | 15:06 | |
| rprakash | Thanks so we are following on last meets continuing on Functional testing | 15:07 |
| Swami | Last week we went through the technical debts for DVR | 15:07 |
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| Swami | Some of the backlog items for the technical debts had been addressed. | 15:08 |
| Swami | #topic DVR migration from legacy to distributed | 15:08 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "DVR migration from legacy to distributed (Meeting topic: distributed_virtual_router)" | 15:08 | |
| rprakash | Did we have DVR eith vR's for a Tenant in different Hosts/Hypervisors and same and different uses cases for it? | 15:08 |
| Murali | Hi swami | 15:08 |
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| Swami | Murali: welcome back | 15:09 |
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| rprakash | legacy you mean physical routers to DVR? | 15:09 |
| Swami | rprakash: can you reframe your question. | 15:09 |
| Murali | Thanks Swami I have small bug fix for DVR which is hanging from long time https://review.openstack.org/#/c/102512/ | 15:10 |
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| Swami | rprakash: This patch was to convert the existing centralized legacy virtual routers to distributed virtual routers. | 15:10 |
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| Murali | I need some help to fix other CI failures. I fixed all the unit testcases | 15:11 |
| Swami | #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/1348309 | 15:11 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1348309 in neutron "Migration of legacy router to distributed router not working" [High,Fix committed] | 15:11 |
| rprakash | OK I am just catching up and so assume I am just an observer for now, | 15:11 |
| Swami | #link https://review.openstack.org/105855 | 15:12 |
| Swami | the above patch was merged recently that would allow a legacy router to be converted to a distributed virtual router. | 15:12 |
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| Swami | Murali: Can you point me to the bug that you are working on. | 15:13 |
| Murali | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/102512/ | 15:13 |
| Murali | Swami the bug ##1307838 | 15:14 |
| Swami | Murali: I thought that is something similar to what I was working on earlier. | 15:14 |
| Murali | https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/1307838 | 15:14 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1307838 in neutron "Scheduling the router on the Node Even though if there are no interface ports on that router. This happen when l3-agent calls sync routers" [Undecided,In progress] | 15:14 |
| Murali | yes that is the bug | 15:15 |
| Swami | Murali: Can you tag this bug to "dvr-backlog" | 15:15 |
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| Swami | Murali: sorry tag it to "l3-dvr-backlog" | 15:16 |
| rprakash | You mean bug due to presence of /etc/mysql in brocade-ci | 15:16 |
| Swami | I don't see it from our backlog list. | 15:16 |
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| Murali | ok Swami I will tag it | 15:16 |
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| Murali | I posted the fix I need some help to fic CI failures | 15:17 |
| Swami | Murali: I will take a look at it today and review it. | 15:17 |
| Murali | Thanks Swami | 15:17 |
| Swami | there are couple of other patches that are related to the migration or manual move. | 15:18 |
| Swami | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/123815/ | 15:18 |
| Swami | mrsmith: is working on this patch right now and the review is in progress. | 15:18 |
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| Swami | Another related patch for manul move of snat is up for review. | 15:19 |
| Swami | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/122024/ | 15:19 |
| Swami | The patch below validates if there are any services associated with a router before a move. | 15:20 |
| Swami | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/123273/ | 15:20 |
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| Swami | Also for manual move or binding a router to a particular agent we do have a patch for review. | 15:21 |
| Swami | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/118491/ | 15:21 |
| Swami | The last four patches that I have posted above is up for review, and please feel free to review it. | 15:21 |
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| Swami | That's all for the DVR migration from legacy to distributed. | 15:22 |
| Swami | #topic DVR VLAN support | 15:22 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "DVR VLAN support (Meeting topic: distributed_virtual_router)" | 15:22 | |
| Swami | Is vivek online | 15:22 |
| Swami | vivek is currently working on the DVR VLAN support. | 15:23 |
| rprakash | any links Swami? | 15:23 |
| Swami | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/131800/ | 15:24 |
| rprakash | thanks | 15:24 |
| Swami | The above is the link to the specs. | 15:24 |
| Swami | vivek also has a patch for the vlan support | 15:24 |
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| Swami | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/129884/ | 15:24 |
| Swami | This patch is still a wip. | 15:25 |
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| Swami | That's the update on the DVR vlan support. | 15:25 |
| Swami | #topic VPNaaS for DVR | 15:25 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "VPNaaS for DVR (Meeting topic: distributed_virtual_router)" | 15:25 | |
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| Swami | The VPNaaS support for DVR work is done and it is currenlty on review. | 15:26 |
| Swami | I have tested and seems to work. | 15:27 |
| Swami | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/127133/5 | 15:27 |
| Swami | This patch is up for review and folks please provide your review comments. | 15:27 |
| rprakash | Have added to review for Vivek's DVR VLAN | 15:27 |
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| Swami | rprakash: Thanks | 15:28 |
| Swami | #topic DVR and L3 HA | 15:29 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "DVR and L3 HA (Meeting topic: distributed_virtual_router)" | 15:29 | |
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| Swami | This topic is under investigation. Both the DVR team and the L3 HA team are working together to come up with a single solution that would support both the DVR and the L3 HA. | 15:29 |
| rprakash | Any links for this? | 15:30 |
| Swami | Right now we have some issues related to control plane that is interfering with the data plane. | 15:30 |
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| rprakash | in Neutron CP/DP? | 15:30 |
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| Swami | DVR has some dependency on l2pop. | 15:31 |
| Swami | rprakash: That is no patch yet for the DVR and L3 HA. | 15:31 |
| Swami | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Neutron/DVR/ServiceNode-HA | 15:31 |
| rprakash | so its message broadcast from CP to take care of DP .. OK i see | 15:32 |
| Swami | This is the link to the wiki patch were both the teams share there investigation items. | 15:32 |
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| Swami | #topic DVR and IPv6 | 15:33 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "DVR and IPv6 (Meeting topic: distributed_virtual_router)" | 15:33 | |
| Swami | Patch for review; | 15:33 |
| Swami | #link https://review.openstack.org/136947 | 15:33 |
| Swami | #link https://review.openstack.org/138654 | 15:34 |
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| Swami | #topic Functional Testing | 15:35 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Functional Testing (Meeting topic: distributed_virtual_router)" | 15:35 | |
| haleyb | And https://review.openstack.org/#/c/134676/ for DVR/IPv6 | 15:35 |
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| rprakash | Last time had heard we are splitting L3 agent code seperating IPV6 and DVR is that part of this same? | 15:36 |
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| Swami | Last week I mentioned that we had a joint meeting with Marun, amuller, myself, adolfo, rajeev, carl_baldwin and mrsmith for the functional test. | 15:36 |
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| Swami | rprakash: L3 agent code refactoring is a work in progress. | 15:37 |
| Swami | The above mentioned patches address a bug in DVR that does not allow both DVR and IPv6 to co-exist. | 15:37 |
| rprakash | I see thanks for the note swami | 15:38 |
| Swami | So we do have a couple of patches that we are currently work on for the functional test and have been posted. | 15:39 |
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| Swami | I don't have the link handy right now, but I will update it in the next meeting. | 15:39 |
| Swami | #topic Bug Scrum | 15:39 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Bug Scrum (Meeting topic: distributed_virtual_router)" | 15:39 | |
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| Swami | Most of the above mentioned patches address the existing bugs. | 15:40 |
| Swami | There are couple of new bugs that popped up. | 15:40 |
| Swami | #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/1398865 | 15:40 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1398865 in neutron "DVR code can add duplicate routing rules" [Undecided,New] | 15:40 |
| Swami | haleyb: is currently owning this bug. | 15:41 |
| haleyb | yes, i had mentioned that last week but just filed today. rajeev gave me some code, i am working on an update | 15:41 |
| Swami | haleyb: thanks for creating a luanchpad entry for this bug as you mentioned last week. | 15:41 |
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| Swami | There is another bug that was filed recently. | 15:42 |
| Swami | #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/1398446 | 15:42 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1398446 in neutron "Novacompute failed to detel VM port with DVR" [Undecided,New] | 15:42 |
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| Swami | #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bugs?field.tag=l3-dvr-backlog | 15:43 |
| Swami | All our bugs are tracked in the above link, if i have missed any bugs please feel free to look at the above link. | 15:43 |
| Swami | #topic Documentation | 15:44 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Documentation (Meeting topic: distributed_virtual_router)" | 15:44 | |
| Swami | We have provided the documentation details to the documentation team and they are working on documenting the DVR for the networking guide. | 15:44 |
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| Swami | We might be having a beta release by the end of January for review to the other folks. | 15:44 |
| Swami | This task is in track. | 15:45 |
| Swami | Anything else for discussion | 15:45 |
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| Swami | I have a hard stop at 7.45a.m today. | 15:46 |
| Swami | Thanks everyone for joining the meeting today. | 15:46 |
| rprakash | Appreciate Swami for the great inputs | 15:46 |
| Swami | See you all next week same time. | 15:46 |
| Swami | bye | 15:46 |
| Swami | #endmeeting | 15:47 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 15:47 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Dec 3 15:47:04 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 15:47 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/distributed_virtual_router/2014/distributed_virtual_router.2014-12-03-15.01.html | 15:47 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/distributed_virtual_router/2014/distributed_virtual_router.2014-12-03-15.01.txt | 15:47 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/distributed_virtual_router/2014/distributed_virtual_router.2014-12-03-15.01.log.html | 15:47 |
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| banix | hi | 16:00 |
| rkukura | hi ML2’ers! | 16:00 |
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| yamamoto | hi | 16:01 |
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| rkukura | banix: welcome back! | 16:01 |
| banix | rkukura: thanks | 16:01 |
| shivharis | hi all | 16:01 |
| sean-k-mooney | o/ | 16:01 |
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| rkukura | I’ll wait a minute or two for people to show up | 16:02 |
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| Sukhdev | Hello everybody | 16:02 |
| manishg_ | hi | 16:02 |
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| rkukura | #startmeeting networking_ml2 | 16:03 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Dec 3 16:03:57 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is rkukura. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 16:03 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 16:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: networking_ml2)" | 16:04 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'networking_ml2' | 16:04 |
| rkukura | #topic: Agenda | 16:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to ": Agenda (Meeting topic: networking_ml2)" | 16:04 | |
| rkukura | #link: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/ML2#Agenda | 16:04 |
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| rkukura | #topic: Announcements | 16:05 |
| *** openstack changes topic to ": Announcements (Meeting topic: networking_ml2)" | 16:05 | |
| rkukura | Mid-cycle meetup: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Sprints/NeutronKiloSprint | 16:05 |
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| rkukura | looks like ML2 will be well-represented at this | 16:06 |
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| Sukhdev | I noticed 4 ML2'ers have signed up for the sprint | 16:06 |
| rkukura | Anyone going that’s not on the wiki? | 16:06 |
| banix | Sukhdev: good | 16:06 |
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| Sukhdev | banix: how about you? | 16:06 |
| Sukhdev | banix: missing this time? | 16:07 |
| shivharis | maybe for me | 16:07 |
| banix | Sukhdev: cannot make it I am afraid | 16:07 |
| Sukhdev | shivharis: sign up please | 16:07 |
| rkukura | Looks like all the agenda is relevant to ML2 | 16:07 |
| irenab | hi, sorry for being late | 16:07 |
| banix | rkukura: yes, good that there are ml2’ers there | 16:08 |
| shivharis | Sukhdev: need to figure out a customer visit, will know shortly | 16:08 |
| rkukura | Since both Sukhdev and will be at this next week, we’ll skip the IRC meeting unless someone else wants to chair it | 16:08 |
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| rkukura | And we can discuss the meetup at the following week’s ML2 meeting | 16:09 |
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| asomya | what are some of the work items for ML2 at the mid cycle sprint? | 16:09 |
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| rkukura | asomya: I believe the API/RPC layer refactor and Core Plugin refactor will both have big impact on the plugins, especially ML2 | 16:10 |
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| asomya | Will this be a good opportunity to address some of the proposed type driver refactor things we discussed in Paris? | 16:10 |
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| asomya | Or should we do that after this sprint? | 16:11 |
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| rkukura | asomya: I’m sure there will be some opportunities to talk about that sort of thing, but I think the focus of this is a “code sprint” | 16:11 |
| asomya | rkukura: sounds good, i was debating whether to go for the sprint or not | 16:11 |
| rkukura | One concern i have is that I think the plan is (still?) to move all the existing extensions into the core API, and I’m not sure it will be possible for ML2 extension drivers to still add additional extensions | 16:12 |
| Sukhdev | asomya: i think you should attend, if you can afford to go | 16:12 |
| asomya | sukhdev: I'll try :) | 16:13 |
| rkukura | It would be useful to know what ML2 mechanism drivers require vendor-specific core resource extensions | 16:13 |
| banix | rkukura: i think at least on the spec that is posssible | 16:13 |
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| rkukura | banix: OK, good to know | 16:14 |
| rkukura | anything else on the meetup? | 16:14 |
| rkukura | Sub-teams charter https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/NeutronSubteamCharters | 16:15 |
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| sadasu | port security extension and the rate limit extension that irenab brought up? | 16:15 |
| banix | we need to add an End Goal section | 16:15 |
| rkukura | So I added the text from our etherpad to this, but we need to link the BP specs we are tracking during kilo | 16:15 |
| sadasu | rkukura: I was still trying to answer your question on the previous topic! | 16:16 |
| rkukura | banix: Not sure all teams need end goals? | 16:16 |
| Sukhdev | banix: please elaborate? | 16:16 |
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| banix | Sukhdev: rkukura there is a new section added to the template called End Goal | 16:16 |
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| rkukura | sadasu: Right - I’m a strong believer in exensibility as a facilitator for innovation | 16:17 |
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| shivharis | ml2 maybe an ongoing topic, so what does endgoal mean here? | 16:17 |
| banix | End Goal (When Are you Done?) Long lived sub-teams with no clear charter are bad. You should have a goal, a timeline, and a completion date in mind. | 16:17 |
| rkukura | I guess we could say we have a clear charter instead | 16:17 |
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| rkukura | Do we think we’ll be done at some point? | 16:18 |
| Sukhdev | rkukura :-) | 16:18 |
| banix | rkukura: all good things will come to an end :) | 16:18 |
| rkukura | banix: OK, will we be done before neutron is done? | 16:18 |
| banix | rkukura: but i understand your point | 16:18 |
| banix | rkukura: exactly | 16:18 |
| rkukura | I guess we could have a goal of eventually stabilizing the ML2 driver APIs and/or folding ML2 into the neutron core | 16:19 |
| sadasu | if one release goes by with no changes to core ML2 plugin, then can we say that it has stabilized and "Done" / | 16:19 |
| irenab | sadasu: +1 | 16:19 |
| rkukura | sadasu: OK, I’ll add something along those lines | 16:19 |
| sadasu | rkukura: +1 | 16:19 |
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| rkukura | Kilo release schedule: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Kilo_Release_Schedule | 16:20 |
| rkukura | So kilo-1 milestone is in 15 days, kilo-2 in February | 16:21 |
| rkukura | More critical, the SPD is this coming Monday! | 16:22 |
| sadasu | rkukura: only critical ml2 driver fixes would be merged until the split happens, corrcet/ | 16:22 |
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| Sukhdev | sadasu: that is my understanding | 16:22 |
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| rkukura | sadasu: I’m not sure about that, but we’ll discuss the split in a bit | 16:23 |
| banix | sadasu: Sukhdev hmmmm how come? | 16:23 |
| rkukura | I’m should have the updated HPB spec submitted later today | 16:23 |
| sadasu | that is what the split BP states | 16:23 |
| Sukhdev | banix: based upon what is written in https://review.openstack.org/#/c/134680/ | 16:23 |
| banix | got it thanks | 16:24 |
| sean-k-mooney | the split bp has not been merged /approved yet but yes that was its recomendation | 16:24 |
| banix | yes we need to review it | 16:24 |
| banix | i think that was one of the action items (uncalled) for the week | 16:25 |
| rkukura | banix: agreed, and this is something that will probably become a concrete plan next week at the sprint | 16:25 |
| Sukhdev | banix: I have been asking for all ML2'er to review it and post your comments | 16:25 |
| sadasu | rkukura: yes, waiting to hear what decisions are made next week | 16:25 |
| banix | Sukhdev: i know; dont see many though (myself included) | 16:26 |
| rkukura | lets all try to review that spec this week and get comments in | 16:26 |
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| sadasu | rkukura: confusing part is, are mech driver BP specs going to be reviewed by cores? | 16:27 |
| rkukura | So, spec proposal deadline is Monday - all specs need to be submitted for review by then | 16:27 |
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| rkukura | sadasu: I don’t know | 16:27 |
| Sukhdev | sadasu: correct. I believe that is true for K cycle | 16:27 |
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| rkukura | Other than HPB, what other specs are planned for Kilo that haven’t been submitted yet? | 16:28 |
| Sukhdev | sadasu: even I found it bit confusing - but, this requirement will go away in L-cycle | 16:28 |
| asomya | rkukura: I have to submit a spec for the refactor | 16:29 |
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| shivharis | I have a new mech driver that will be submitted today | 16:29 |
| Sukhdev | asomya: please submit ASAP | 16:29 |
| rkukura | Lets assume for now that vendor drivers need specs in kilo | 16:29 |
| asomya | will do today | 16:29 |
| sadasu | Sukhdev: correct. | 16:29 |
| irenab | rkukura: Ml2 extension for port rate limit spec will be subbmited soon | 16:29 |
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| rkukura | any others? | 16:30 |
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| Sukhdev | 12/8 is the deadline for all specs to be in... | 16:30 |
| sean-k-mooney | i submitted a spec for a new mech dirver an hour ago too. | 16:30 |
| irenab | also just submitted https://blueprints.launchpad.net/neutron/+spec/network-settings-support-vnic-type | 16:30 |
| rkukura | and 12/15 is the deadline for them to be approved | 16:30 |
| rcurran | vxlan support for cisco nexus (dep on HPB and asomya's type driver) | 16:30 |
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| sadasu | here is a link to my mech driver spec: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/134056/ | 16:31 |
| rkukura | #action everyone Submit kilo specs for review by 12/8, but ASAP since approval deadline is 12/15 | 16:31 |
| sadasu | I have a few +1s already | 16:31 |
| rkukura | Do we want to continue tracking these via the wiki? | 16:31 |
| sadasu | thanks to those who reviewed...you know who you are | 16:32 |
| shivharis | rkukura: +1 | 16:32 |
| rkukura | If so, it needs updating so that the top section is the actual kilo specs | 16:32 |
| irenab | rkukura: yes | 16:32 |
| Sukhdev | rkukura: banix and I used to baby sit that wiki :-) | 16:32 |
| rkukura | #topic bugs | 16:32 |
| sean-k-mooney | i added the link to mine https://review.openstack.org/#/c/138742/ to the wiki too but was not sure if it is still used | 16:32 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "bugs (Meeting topic: networking_ml2)" | 16:32 | |
| rkukura | #undo | 16:33 |
| openstack | Removing item from minutes: <ircmeeting.items.Topic object at 0x3db0210> | 16:33 |
| rkukura | Does anyone want to take an action to cleanup/reorganize the tracking wiki? | 16:33 |
| manishg_ | I'll take it | 16:33 |
| banix | i tried to go through them a week or so ago but it may not be up to date | 16:33 |
| banix | manishg_: thanks | 16:33 |
| Sukhdev | If the team believes it is useful, we can continue to maintain it | 16:33 |
| shivharis | I'll take joint ownership | 16:34 |
| rkukura | #action manishg_ Cleanup and reorganize https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Tracking_ML2_Subgroup_Reviews | 16:34 |
| banix | mainly, the owners of bps, need to keep it up to date | 16:34 |
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| rkukura | #undo | 16:34 |
| openstack | Removing item from minutes: <ircmeeting.items.Action object at 0x3ac0350> | 16:34 |
| Sukhdev | manishg_, shivharis: you have to ensure that it is up-to-date | 16:34 |
| sadasu | banix: manishg: will update with mine | 16:35 |
| shivharis | Sukhdev: +1 | 16:35 |
| rkukura | #action manishg_ and shivharis: Cleanup and reorganize https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Tracking_ML2_Subgroup_Reviews | 16:35 |
| manishg_ | Sukhdev: +1 | 16:35 |
| banix | sounds good | 16:35 |
| rkukura | OK, I think we covered the spec reviews topic, lets go back to bugs | 16:35 |
| rkukura | #topic bugs | 16:35 |
| manishg_ | sadasu: thanks. | 16:35 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "bugs (Meeting topic: networking_ml2)" | 16:35 | |
| rkukura | shivharis: any update on this? | 16:35 |
| shivharis | Hi | 16:35 |
| shivharis | This is going to be fun. Since we are only going to get critical bugs in | 16:36 |
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| shivharis | and since we have no "critical" bugs we are done --- (just kidding) | 16:36 |
| rkukura | shivharis: Why only critical bugs? | 16:36 |
| shivharis | Only critical bugs will be entertained for merge .(that is what i hear) | 16:37 |
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| shivharis | However... | 16:37 |
| rkukura | shivharis: Is that for vendor drivers/plugins, or everything? | 16:37 |
| shivharis | We hav 56 bugs, and many in medium and low. | 16:37 |
| shivharis | Early in a cycle it is good to help onboard new team members | 16:38 |
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| shivharis | I would like folks to look at the bugs and please pick up these bugs (that get sidetracked) at the end of the tail end of the release | 16:39 |
| shivharis | rkukura: everything | 16:39 |
| shivharis | Also it would be nice to have a list of primary maintainers of vendor plugins | 16:39 |
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| shivharis | So please help out in picking up these bugs, some maybe low hanging fruit | 16:40 |
| banix | regarding #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/113999/ looking at logs from a few weeks ago (when i was absent) it was mentioned i think by rkukura that we may not need the bug fix for bulks if the tasks stuff get done… the patch is almost there, almost got merged ;) at Juno RC1 and now need a rebase and addressing yamamoto ’s comments. should i get that done or simply abondon? | 16:40 |
| sean-k-mooney | if im not mistakend dont all vendor plugins require a point of contact? | 16:40 |
| banix | sean-k-mooney: their CI systemdoes | 16:41 |
| shivharis | sean-k-mooney: yes, but this is not done completely | 16:41 |
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| irenab | what about not vendor specific, like OVS, LB, SRIOV? | 16:41 |
| shivharis | We have vendor bugs sitting in q for a very long time | 16:41 |
| sean-k-mooney | banix: thanks | 16:41 |
| shivharis | So, please help out here. | 16:41 |
| rkukura | banix: Lets see what happens at the meetup next week regarding the plugin APIs, and then decide whether to go with the proposed fix or not | 16:41 |
| shivharis | I am looking for new volunteers | 16:42 |
| banix | rkukura: ok | 16:42 |
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| rkukura | I’ve been out of the loop lately, but cannot believe bug fixes are not being merged | 16:42 |
| manishg_ | shivharis: should the vendors not be fixing their own bugs? | 16:42 |
| manishg_ | if the vendors don't care I wonder if should give them lower priority as compared to other bugs. | 16:43 |
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| shivharis | vendors usually fix their own bugs - but since it becomes community code anyone can jump in | 16:43 |
| manishg_ | yeah they can jump in but in ML2 community should we first take care of other more important stuff? | 16:43 |
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| shivharis | i am not seeing volunteers, so i will have to start assigning | 16:44 |
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| shivharis | moving on | 16:44 |
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| shivharis | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/113999/ | 16:44 |
| manishg_ | I'll pick some of them but let's not assign vendor bugs unless someone really wants to. | 16:44 |
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| shivharis | banix: ? | 16:44 |
| banix | shivharis: thanks i already jumed the gun as usual | 16:44 |
| banix | wondering whether to work on it or not; rob suggesting wait until next week which sounds reasonable | 16:45 |
| shivharis | ok | 16:45 |
| rkukura | banix: My view is that we’ll likely go with this fix, but lets see what impact the plugin API changes has | 16:45 |
| banix | rkukura: sure; meanwhile i rebase and address yamamato’s concern | 16:46 |
| shivharis | manishg_: I will try to assign the vendors specific bugs to relevant folks they may re-assign | 16:46 |
| shivharis | that is all I have for bugs | 16:46 |
| rkukura | banix: make sense to me | 16:46 |
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| rkukura | shivharis: thanks | 16:46 |
| manishg_ | shivharis: thanks | 16:46 |
| rkukura | #topic driver repo discussion | 16:46 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "driver repo discussion (Meeting topic: networking_ml2)" | 16:46 | |
| rkukura | we already discussed this a bit | 16:46 |
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| rkukura | I don’t yet fully grasp the current proposal - still need to read it in detail | 16:47 |
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| rkukura | But I get the impression the drivers themselves stay in the neutron repo. Is that correct? | 16:47 |
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| banix | rkukura: no just a thin part of them | 16:48 |
| sean-k-mooney | the ovs mech drive will at least but i belive the rest are moved out | 16:48 |
| rkukura | That thin part is what I meant by “the drivers themselves" | 16:48 |
| banix | rkukura: that will interface with the out of tree piece | 16:48 |
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| banix | rkukura: yes then :) | 16:48 |
| manishg_ | rkukura: no drivers move out. except ovs (as sean-k-mooney said) - initially. later that moves out too. | 16:48 |
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| manishg_ | s/no drivers/no, drivers/ :) | 16:49 |
| rkukura | so there is not thin peice remaining in tree, not even the driver entry point? | 16:49 |
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| sadasu | rkukura: db, config and requirements.txt stays in tree for each driver | 16:49 |
| rkukura | s/not/no/ | 16:49 |
| rkukura | does this make sense to anyone? | 16:50 |
| sadasu | rkukura: all other code lives outside the tree | 16:50 |
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| sadasu | rkukura: all other code -> all other mech driver code | 16:50 |
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| shivharis | how will tempest/unit tests run? | 16:51 |
| banix | when i refered to a thin part staying in tree that was for mono plugins | 16:51 |
| irenab | also agent entry point is kept in the tree | 16:51 |
| sadasu | requirements.txt points to the outside repo where driver code lives and also specifies other packages that the driver needs to import etc | 16:51 |
| sadasu | irenab: correct | 16:52 |
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| rkukura | I’m concerned its going to become extremely difficult to evolve the driver APIs with this plan | 16:52 |
| rkukura | We are running short on time. Lets all review the spec and get our comments in. | 16:53 |
| shivharis | I believe we will need some example drivers to remain in | 16:53 |
| irenab | I guess as ML2 subteam we may propose some way to support ML2 pieces (Mech. and Extension Drivers) | 16:53 |
| sean-k-mooney | i belive the intention is to keep the ovs driver for the gate and as an example | 16:54 |
| amotoki_ | how can we version the driver API? I think we need to consider some versioning for internal APIs. | 16:54 |
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| amotoki_ | it is not achieved in the plugin API yet.... :-( | 16:54 |
| rkukura | amotoki_: Are you suggesting that we make ML2 support multiple driver API versions simultaneously? That would add significant complexity! | 16:54 |
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| amotoki_ | rkukura: at least, if we support two versions, out-of-tree drivers can migrate to new API . | 16:55 |
| amotoki_ | but i understand it is not an easy thing of courses. | 16:56 |
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| sean-k-mooney | amotoki: would we then evolve the api in lockstep over each cycle depreacting the older api | 16:56 |
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| rkukura | amotoki_: I’m not sure this whole approach is worth it. I’d much rather see the drivers stay in tree, but be made as thin as possible wrappers around external libraries that deal with the backends. | 16:57 |
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| rkukura | only 4 minutes left | 16:57 |
| Sukhdev | sorry - I lost power at my home | 16:57 |
| Sukhdev | I am back now | 16:57 |
| sadasu | rkukura: +1 | 16:57 |
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| banix | before running out of time, note the l2 agent work may have some implications as well; review the proposal pls https://review.openstack.org/#/c/137808/ | 16:57 |
| amotoki_ | rkukura: it is just an idea, but I don't have a good concrete plan right now. | 16:57 |
| rkukura | #topic Modular L2 agent | 16:57 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Modular L2 agent (Meeting topic: networking_ml2)" | 16:57 | |
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| sadasu | I was hoping that the split would slice it that way, but it isn't | 16:58 |
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| banix | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/137808/ | 16:58 |
| rkukura | amotoki_: makes sense in theory | 16:58 |
| banix | l2 improvement spec ^^^ | 16:58 |
| manishg_ | rosella already put a spec out. | 16:58 |
| manishg_ | banix: thanks. | 16:58 |
| rkukura | So is this something the ML2 team should track through kilo? | 16:59 |
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| banix | not sure | 17:00 |
| rkukura | And is any “modularity” being proposed, or is that something we’d pursue seperately? | 17:00 |
| manishg_ | Looks like currently it's going on independently. I may be helping with it. | 17:00 |
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| banix | rkukura: no modularity; was asked to postpone | 17:00 |
| rkukura | ok | 17:01 |
| rkukura | we are out of time | 17:01 |
| rkukura | thanks everyone! | 17:01 |
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| manishg_ | thanks. | 17:01 |
| banix | bye | 17:01 |
| rkukura | #endmeeting | 17:01 |
| yamamoto | bye | 17:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 17:01 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Dec 3 17:01:10 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 17:01 |
| Sukhdev | Thanks rkukura | 17:01 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/networking_ml2/2014/networking_ml2.2014-12-03-16.03.html | 17:01 |
| sean-k-mooney | bye | 17:01 |
| Sukhdev | bye | 17:01 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/networking_ml2/2014/networking_ml2.2014-12-03-16.03.txt | 17:01 |
| irenab | thanks | 17:01 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/networking_ml2/2014/networking_ml2.2014-12-03-16.03.log.html | 17:01 |
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| rkukura | bye | 17:01 |
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| irenab | bye | 17:01 |
| sadasu | thanks! | 17:01 |
| amotoki_ | good night | 17:01 |
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| Kiall | #startmeeting Designate | 17:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Dec 3 17:01:38 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is Kiall. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 17:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 17:01 |
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| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: Designate)" | 17:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'designate' | 17:01 |
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| Kiall | Heya - Who's about? | 17:01 |
| rjrjr_ | o/ | 17:01 |
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| timsim | o/ | 17:01 |
| mugsie | o/ | 17:02 |
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| Kiall | vinod1 / betsy about today? | 17:02 |
| Kiall | Guess not :) | 17:02 |
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| timsim | They'll be along shortly I bet | 17:03 |
| Kiall | Quick off-agenda item - Kilo-1 status page .. Anything we're missing from it, please add https://launchpad.net/designate/+milestone/kilo-1 | 17:03 |
| betsy | yes | 17:03 |
| betsy | o/ | 17:03 |
| Kiall | #topic Actions Items from last week | 17:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Actions Items from last week (Meeting topic: Designate)" | 17:03 | |
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| Kiall | I'll skip a few of these that are duplicates ;) | 17:03 |
| Kiall | timsim file bug for PUT behavior in the API - Done | 17:03 |
| Kiall | Kiall give timsim mockup code for totalcount - Done | 17:03 |
| Kiall | mugsie push horzion code upstream - Done - Needs a +A | 17:04 |
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| rjrjr_ | transition powerdns backend to MDNS. - is that needed? | 17:04 |
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| Kiall | people review ekarlso- 's secondary zones / v2 API bindings - Any takers on that one? | 17:04 |
| Kiall | rjrjr_: I think it needs to be renamed to pools :) | 17:04 |
| vinod1 | I am looking at the secondary zones | 17:04 |
| timsim | I reviewed secondary zones, I think vinod did/is in progress | 17:04 |
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| mugsie | ^ is just an initial push of internal code, so unless there is glaring errors, can we get it merged? | 17:04 |
| Kiall | Anyway - We can discuss those in detail next week, I'll be putting Kilo release status on | 17:04 |
| Kiall | the agenda from then on | 17:04 |
| vinod1 | i can do a quick scan of the horizon code today | 17:05 |
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| Kiall | Just want people to fill out any missing stuff before next week :) | 17:05 |
| Kiall | vinod1: excellent :) | 17:05 |
| Kiall | Okay - Moving on! | 17:05 |
| Kiall | #topic Pools - Where are we? (kiall) | 17:05 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Pools - Where are we? (kiall) (Meeting topic: Designate)" | 17:05 | |
| Kiall | So - We've got lots merged, where do we go from here? :) | 17:05 |
| betsy | I’ve still got my work | 17:06 |
| mugsie | i think testing multiple pools, (even with manual switching) and seeing what breaks | 17:06 |
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| betsy | Almost done just getting the tests working | 17:06 |
| mugsie | betsy: cool | 17:06 |
| rjrjr_ | i'm in the middle of a integrating pool manager with central without going through the backend proxy. | 17:06 |
| Kiall | mugsie: ++ | 17:06 |
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| betsy | Afraid there’s going to be crazy merge issues | 17:06 |
| mugsie | betsy: there always is | 17:07 |
| Kiall | Beyond that - We'll need to port over the backends (PowerDNS, Fake, NSD4 etc. We'll discuss IPA style in the next topic) | 17:07 |
| betsy | :) | 17:07 |
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| Kiall | I've started PowerDNS - But hit a blocker and it was late ;) | 17:07 |
| rjrjr_ | we also need to decide how to display via CLI/API the status and action. | 17:07 |
| Kiall | Do we have any takers for the other easily portable backends? | 17:07 |
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| mugsie | i will have a look at nsd | 17:08 |
| rjrjr_ | i handled fake already. 8^) | 17:08 |
| timsim | rjrjr_: You're doing bind9 too or no? | 17:08 |
| Kiall | Easily portable: Fake (done), NSD4 (mugsie), PowerDNS (me), DynECT | 17:08 |
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| rjrjr_ | bind9 is done. | 17:09 |
| Kiall | I'm guessing myself / ekarlso- / mugsie will need to do DynECT due to having an account with them | 17:09 |
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| timsim | Cool. | 17:09 |
| Kiall | I'll ask ekarlso- to, as he wrote it the first time ;) | 17:09 |
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| Kiall | Okay .. During porting - I'd suggest we replace the old backend, rather than add a new _pool version. Thoughts? | 17:09 |
| vinod1 | +1 | 17:09 |
| rjrjr_ | i think we should wait until we have pool manager integrated completely. | 17:10 |
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| Kiall | well - there's a catch-22 there of can't kill the old code without breaking all the old-style backends | 17:10 |
| rjrjr_ | never mind. you are correct. go for it. | 17:10 |
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| vinod1 | rjrjr_: With your current patchset - would the pool manger integration be complete? | 17:11 |
| rjrjr_ | when it is completed, yes. | 17:11 |
| Kiall | okay - so, beyond those ports (and IPA style backends, which we'll come to in the next topic). API chanegs to expose the status etc was suggested as a next step? | 17:11 |
| rjrjr_ | i have questions about unit testing, but i'll wait until the open discussion. | 17:11 |
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| Kiall | kk.. I guess that leads into the next topic then.. Any more general pools status / progress / questions? | 17:12 |
| vinod1 | Kiall - your code for recordsets seems to be propagating to pool attributes and now domain attributes | 17:12 |
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| vinod1 | so we need to get that cleaned up | 17:12 |
| Kiall | vinod1: ah yes, timsim filed a bug for that.. | 17:13 |
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| Kiall | Do we have any takers on it? | 17:13 |
| mugsie | whats the bug? | 17:13 |
| Kiall | (I can't remember if tim assigned himself, or just filed it) | 17:13 |
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| timsim | Nah I didn't assign it to myself. | 17:13 |
| Kiall | bug 1396720 | 17:13 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1396720 in designate "PUT on a Recordset with multiple Records results in delete/recreation of all Records" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1396720 | 17:13 |
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| mugsie | I can look at it | 17:14 |
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| mugsie | havent done much upstream workn this month ;) | 17:14 |
| Kiall | Thanks mugsie .. | 17:14 |
| rjrjr_ | i hope we are not making any big changes to central until i get this patch in. just a wish really. 8^) | 17:14 |
| Kiall | rjrjr_: lol... | 17:14 |
| mugsie | rjrjr_: I am going to change everyhthing | 17:15 |
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| Kiall | It should be an API layer fix ;) | 17:15 |
| mugsie | just for the fun of it ;) | 17:15 |
| Kiall | Okay.. Moving on :) | 17:15 |
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| Kiall | #topic Pools - Removing the old backend code, migration path for IPA style backends? (kiall) | 17:15 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Pools - Removing the old backend code, migration path for IPA style backends? (kiall) (Meeting topic: Designate)" | 17:15 | |
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| Kiall | rjrjr_: patchset has started this, but myself and mugsie started talking about it last night.. | 17:15 |
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| Kiall | We're thinking we really need to provide the migration path for IPA style backends (also applies to the InfoBlox backend which should arrive soon) | 17:16 |
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| rjrjr_ | based on the conversation yesterday, it seems like we will drop support for IPA in Kilo and add it back in the next cycle. 8^) | 17:16 |
| mugsie | I think that we can avoid that - hopefully | 17:17 |
| timsim | What does that entail? | 17:17 |
| Kiall | mugsie managed to change my mind on that, so wanted to discuss with the group and come to a decision. | 17:17 |
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| Kiall | We figure it kinda fits into timsim's new-agent proposal .. | 17:17 |
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| mugsie | I would think that we can re purpose the "new agent", by extending it slightly | 17:17 |
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| Kiall | If we wanted old-style backends to work as is.. Agent listens for NOTIFY, does AXFR (i.e copy the secondary zone code), then splits that into a backend - for bind - that would just re-render the zonefile and rndc reload.. | 17:18 |
| timsim | What extra work is there for that backend for IPA style things? | 17:18 |
| Kiall | For IPA, it might do an AXFR against IPA, compare, and call the old-style backend methods to write our the changes | 17:18 |
| timsim | Seems doable. | 17:18 |
| mugsie | yeah, i think so | 17:18 |
| Kiall | Yea, I think it sounds doable at 1000 ft alright :) | 17:19 |
| mugsie | i just don't want to dump some of the backends, with out an attempt to help them work | 17:19 |
| betsy | kiall: It always does :D | 17:19 |
| rjrjr_ | so, what does that mean for my current work? | 17:19 |
| rjrjr_ | once it is accepted, IPA is broken. 8^( | 17:19 |
| rjrjr_ | the timing here is going to be tricky. | 17:20 |
| mugsie | i think we can get ^ done fairly quickly | 17:20 |
| Kiall | Anyway, If we want to ensure we keep that support - then getting that work (work == bones of new-agent) done becomes a priority... thoughts? | 17:20 |
| timsim | I'd agree. | 17:20 |
| Kiall | rjrjr_: yea, that's where I'm hoping we come to a decision and get the bones written up really quickly so as to not block you for too long | 17:20 |
| rjrjr_ | i'm concerned, but that's because i see what still needs to happen with pool manager. | 17:21 |
| mugsie | I would like to make it a prioroty | 17:21 |
| timsim | (The Agent is a rather large RAX priority, so it looks like I was going to be working on it anyway) | 17:21 |
| Kiall | rjrjr_: Yea, finding the balance is the fun one ;) | 17:21 |
| Kiall | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Kilo_Release_Schedule | 17:21 |
| mugsie | i think that we can have 2 groups working in tandem, and then we can do some git foo to have the switch done right | 17:21 |
| timsim | mugsie: We can do a topic branch! oh wait... | 17:22 |
| Kiall | k1 is Dec 18th, and we've been hoping for Pools to be effectively feature complete by then.. | 17:22 |
| mugsie | timsim: funnily, neutron has topic branches | 17:22 |
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| mugsie | :D | 17:22 |
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| Kiall | which is 431 commits behind master ;) | 17:22 |
| timsim | Kiall: So would you want to wait on merging any "agent" stuff until after k1? | 17:23 |
| Kiall | Gonna be a fun rebase! | 17:23 |
| mugsie | I think we can look a tthe spec for the agent, propose changes today / tomorrow, and get work started quickly | 17:23 |
| rjrjr_ | but, pool manager implies broken IPA without agent. | 17:23 |
| mugsie | for K1 the agent doesnt have to pretty or quick | 17:23 |
| Kiall | timsim: well, I dunno.. Do we break IPA style for K1, and fix it in K2? or not have 100% pools in K1? | 17:23 |
| mugsie | have to be* | 17:23 |
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| rjrjr_ | i think pools should be the priority. but i'm biased. 8^) | 17:23 |
| Kiall | I think I'm OK with breaking IPA style in K1, assuming we commit to fixing it in K2 | 17:24 |
| timsim | Kiall: Might be a stretch to get the agent+IPA business done by K1 | 17:24 |
| mugsie | i think we can postpone that call till next week. if next week there is not much progress, we break IPA in K1 | 17:24 |
| timsim | I think that seems reasonable. | 17:24 |
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| timsim | So action people to review the agent spec then? | 17:25 |
| rjrjr_ | i'm okay with that. | 17:25 |
| mugsie | yup | 17:25 |
| Kiall | Any other opinions or shall we call it break IPA-style in K1,commit to fixing in K2, unless we can agree next week that Pools+Agent is doable by K1? | 17:25 |
| Kiall | #action all review new-agent spec | 17:25 |
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| mugsie | aim to keep it, and decide next week | 17:25 |
| timsim | mugsie: +1 | 17:25 |
| Kiall | mugsie: yea, aim to keep, see how reality based that is | 17:25 |
| timsim | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/131530/2 Agent spec | 17:26 |
| rjrjr_ | this is going to be fun... | 17:26 |
| mugsie | rjrjr_: :) | 17:26 |
| Kiall | rjrjr_: yea, sorry :( | 17:26 |
| Kiall | On the plus side, you'll learn more about git rebase :D | 17:26 |
| * Kiall ducks for cover | 17:26 | |
| timsim | You're going to be a rebase master rjrjr_ :P | 17:26 |
| rjrjr_ | yeah, there is that. | 17:26 |
| Kiall | Okay - Anything else on this before Open Discussion | 17:27 |
| Kiall | ?* | 17:27 |
| mugsie | I am good. | 17:27 |
| timsim | I'm good. | 17:27 |
| Kiall | #topic Open Discussion | 17:27 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: Designate)" | 17:27 | |
| rjrjr_ | mid-cycle summit - will rackspace be able to attend in San Jose? | 17:27 |
| vinod1 | rjrjr: Just wanted to check if you had any inputs on the horizon code | 17:27 |
| Kiall | Any other topics? rjrjr_, you had one? | 17:27 |
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| vinod1 | since ebay was interested in horizon | 17:28 |
| rjrjr_ | i handed the code to PK. he is in the process of getting it up and running. i'll check with him today and get back to you about it. | 17:28 |
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| rjrjr_ | mid-cycle summit? | 17:28 |
| Kiall | rjrjr_: if he's stick, ping us :) | 17:28 |
| Kiall | stuck* | 17:28 |
| mugsie | yeah, I have been talkig to him | 17:28 |
| rjrjr_ | sure. stick or stuck. | 17:28 |
| Kiall | kk | 17:28 |
| vinod1 | for the mid-cycle summit - i still haven't heard back anything from the higher ups | 17:29 |
| rjrjr_ | okay. | 17:29 |
| Kiall | If I remember right - Joe had said it should be fine, but official approval etc etc | 17:30 |
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| vinod1 | correct | 17:30 |
| timsim | Yeah, that's what it looks like. | 17:30 |
| rjrjr_ | can we get a go/no go by 12/24? | 17:30 |
| timsim | We can try | 17:30 |
| Kiall | It's a "go" from HP anyway... | 17:30 |
| rjrjr_ | cool! | 17:30 |
| timsim | We'll sick Joe on it :P | 17:30 |
| rjrjr_ | okay, now a question about unit testing... | 17:31 |
| rjrjr_ | so, if i'm understanding what i'm seeing, i need to have central, pool manager, and mdns running. | 17:31 |
| rjrjr_ | pool manager will use the fake backend i wrote. | 17:31 |
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| rjrjr_ | mdns needs fake stuff too, correct? | 17:31 |
| Kiall | Ideally, we fix Pool Mgr's shiney new tests to, well, not need all that | 17:31 |
| rjrjr_ | the problem is central is failing miserably on tests. | 17:32 |
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| rjrjr_ | ideally, mdns would have fake calls for NOTIFY, AXFR, etc. | 17:33 |
| rjrjr_ | since we won't really have a backend. | 17:33 |
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| Kiall | If I remember right, all central calls -> pools are cast - i.e. fire and forget - those can be mocked easily, and we can just validate the right stuff has been passed into the call | 17:33 |
| rjrjr_ | so, a mock pool manager then? do we have an example of a mock service? | 17:33 |
| Kiall | Well, not a full mock... you can do something like this.. | 17:34 |
| rjrjr_ | i'm new to Python unit testing, so any guidance you can provide is appreciated. | 17:34 |
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| Kiall | with mock.patched(pool_manager_api, 'some_method') as m: | 17:34 |
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| Kiall | then when central calls "some_method" it'll be just record the args and return nothing (like the real call would) | 17:34 |
| Kiall | and m.calls[0].args or similar will let you validate the correct things are passed in | 17:35 |
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| rjrjr_ | okay. this is a learning curve for me. this might take me a couple of days. | 17:36 |
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| Kiall | https://github.com/openstack/designate/blob/master/designate/tests/test_mdns/test_notify.py#L37 | 17:36 |
| Kiall | ^ Similar example from mDNS code | 17:37 |
| Kiall | In that case, patching the dns.query.udp() method | 17:37 |
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| Kiall | We can sync up after the meet if you like? | 17:37 |
| rjrjr_ | okay. | 17:37 |
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| Kiall | Cool - Any other topics? | 17:38 |
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| timsim | I'm good. | 17:38 |
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| Kiall | mugsie / vinod1 / betsy ? | 17:38 |
| mugsie | nopoe | 17:38 |
| vinod1 | Nothing from me | 17:38 |
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| betsy | I’m good | 17:39 |
| Kiall | Cool, will call it a day then :) | 17:39 |
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| Kiall | rjrjr_: give me 10 mins and I'll ping you if your free then... | 17:39 |
| Kiall | Thanks all :) | 17:39 |
| Kiall | #endmeeting | 17:39 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 17:39 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Dec 3 17:39:47 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 17:39 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/designate/2014/designate.2014-12-03-17.01.html | 17:39 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/designate/2014/designate.2014-12-03-17.01.txt | 17:39 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/designate/2014/designate.2014-12-03-17.01.log.html | 17:39 |
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| SlickNik | #startmeeting trove | 17:59 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Dec 3 17:59:08 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is SlickNik. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 17:59 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 17:59 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: trove)" | 17:59 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'trove' | 17:59 |
| SlickNik | Giving folks a few minutes to trickle in. | 17:59 |
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| SlickNik | The meeting agenda is at: | 18:00 |
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| SlickNik | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/TroveMeeting | 18:00 |
| amrith | ./ | 18:00 |
| sgotliv_ | ./ | 18:00 |
| amrith | oh crap, he showed up. | 18:00 |
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| esmute | 0/ | 18:01 |
| schang | o/ | 18:01 |
| sgotliv_ | amrith, I didn't see that ;-) | 18:01 |
| amrith | sgotliv_, I was counting on that. | 18:01 |
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| vgnbkr | o/ | 18:01 |
| peterstac | o/ | 18:01 |
| dougshelley66 | o/ | 18:02 |
| edmondk | o/ | 18:02 |
| SlickNik | #topic Discuss merge order for various OSLO related patches | 18:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Discuss merge order for various OSLO related patches (Meeting topic: trove)" | 18:02 | |
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| kanzaros | o/ | 18:02 |
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| amrith | sounds like mine. | 18:02 |
| SlickNik | amrith: go for it | 18:03 |
| abramley | o/ | 18:03 |
| amrith | so, I'd like to discuss with the group the order in which we get these large oslo patches in. | 18:03 |
| amrith | I have several. | 18:03 |
| amrith | Sergey has RPC messaging. | 18:03 |
| georgelorch | o/ | 18:03 |
| amrith | Mine are simple (largely changes to requirements.txt) | 18:03 |
| amrith | gated behind my changes are 3 sets of changes | 18:03 |
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| amrith | 1. processutils -> oslo.serialization | 18:03 |
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| amrith | 2. resynch oslo incubator | 18:03 |
| amrith | 3. some security related changes which didn't make it to juno | 18:04 |
| amrith | I would like to get the deprecated modules changes done | 18:04 |
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| amrith | so I can move forward. | 18:04 |
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| amrith | I need core reviewers | 18:04 |
| amrith | to +2 and wf +1 | 18:04 |
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| amrith | the earlier decision was to wait for rpc messaging | 18:04 |
| amrith | but that seems to be also not moving. | 18:05 |
| SlickNik | So at the summit we decided we'd push oslo.messaging through first since that was the biggest and riskiest change. | 18:05 |
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| amrith | so I'm raising the general issue of how we move forward. | 18:05 |
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| amrith | SlickNik, yes, I know that. two questions. should we revisit that, or should we put some urgency on merging oslo.messaging. | 18:05 |
| amrith | I don't care about the order. | 18:05 |
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| esmute | ALL: THe fire alarm just went off here in the Seattle office... | 18:05 |
| amrith | but I know which would be easier (for me). | 18:05 |
| amrith | that's the oslo.messaging patch. | 18:06 |
| amrith | sometimes it does that | 18:06 |
| esmute | if you talk to us and we dont respond, we are not ignoring you | 18:06 |
| amrith | well, try recheck | 18:06 |
| amrith | it works sometimes. | 18:06 |
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| amrith | sgotliv_, you've got to address the issue of oslo.messaging patch setting off the fire alarm. | 18:06 |
| SlickNik | Well, we were waiting on an updated spec which was updated yesterday. | 18:06 |
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| SlickNik | And amrith when I talked with you yesterday, you said you were still in the process of pulling down the oslo.messaging changes and going through them. | 18:08 |
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| amrith | I am | 18:08 |
| amrith | and it is taking time. | 18:08 |
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| amrith | I have to do that, no matter the merge order. | 18:08 |
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| SlickNik | There's also an issue of them making the int-tests run slower, which is pushing the dsvm job past its time limit. | 18:08 |
| amrith | at issue now is the question not of whether oslo.messaging must merge or not but rather whether it should hold up other things that are ready. | 18:08 |
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| amrith | the deprecated modules changes had (no longer) spec dependencies. we opted to go for the bug instead. | 18:10 |
| amrith | the code itself is (largely) updates to requirements.txt | 18:10 |
| amrith | hence my request to change the order. | 18:10 |
| sgotliv_ | I have no problem with the order | 18:10 |
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| sgotliv_ | I just want to understand messaging status | 18:11 |
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| amrith | SlickNik, if we don't want to change the order, that's fine too. could I get the changes +2'ed and pending a WF change. | 18:11 |
| amrith | it would be ideal to merge | 18:12 |
| sgotliv_ | amrith, your changes are very important | 18:12 |
| sgotliv_ | they close several issues | 18:12 |
| amrith | because that would make the oslo-incubator rebase easier to handle | 18:12 |
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| SlickNik | I'm fine with changing the order — someone would have to take on the job of rebasing the oslo.messaging patch (again). | 18:13 |
| sgotliv_ | I will do that | 18:13 |
| amrith | I will help | 18:14 |
| amrith | in any way I can | 18:14 |
| amrith | including doing that rebase if required; the intersection is small. | 18:14 |
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| SlickNik | Okay, then. Let's move forward with that plan. | 18:15 |
| SlickNik | sgotliv_: Right now for status — I'm good with the messaging changes and spec — just trying to understand why they cause the int-tests to run slower and fail in the given time limit, or see if we can extend that. | 18:15 |
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| SlickNik | I'll work on getting that piece ironed out. | 18:15 |
| sgotliv_ | SlickNik, can I help? | 18:16 |
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| sgotliv_ | I didn't realize that there is a problem | 18:16 |
| amrith | SlickNik, is that the reason for the gate failures on the messaging change? | 18:17 |
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| SlickNik | amrith / sgotliv_: The dsvm-functional tests seem to be timing out on every patchset. | 18:17 |
| SlickNik | eg: http://logs.openstack.org/84/94484/46/check/gate-trove-functional-dsvm-mysql/d53d0fd/console.html.gz | 18:17 |
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| SlickNik | if you scroll to the very bottom you'll see it. | 18:18 |
| sgotliv_ | I will take a look | 18:18 |
| amrith | ah, 95 minute deadline | 18:18 |
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| amrith | should see how close to it we are without the messaging patch | 18:18 |
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| sgotliv_ | i see 30minutes gap between last test result and the next line | 18:19 |
| sgotliv_ | looks weird | 18:19 |
| SlickNik | It's usually 70-85 mins depending on how slow the node is. | 18:19 |
| peterstac | What test is it trying to run that times out? | 18:19 |
| amrith | the one after detach replica | 18:20 |
| amrith | there is a test | 18:20 |
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| peterstac | (i.e. waht comes after test_slave_is_not_read_only?) | 18:20 |
| amrith | that I saw the review for yesterday | 18:20 |
| amrith | that didn't have a timeout | 18:20 |
| amrith | it had a poll_until | 18:20 |
| amrith | with no timeout | 18:20 |
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| amrith | mariam had a comment on the review questioning whether a timeout should be added | 18:20 |
| amrith | yes, had to do with slave readonly | 18:20 |
| amrith | or was the test immediately after that | 18:21 |
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| SlickNik | So perhaps that test is always failing for the oslo.messaging patch. | 18:21 |
| SlickNik | I saw that as well. | 18:21 |
| peterstac | The read_only one seems to pass pretty quickly (4.22 s) | 18:21 |
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| SlickNik | it's def test_slave_user_removed(self): | 18:22 |
| peterstac | That shouldn't take long - think there's a bug in the test? | 18:23 |
| sgotliv_ | usually when tests stuck means Trove try to reach out to the real queue | 18:23 |
| sgotliv_ | I have to check mocks | 18:23 |
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| SlickNik | sgotliv_: There's no mocks in the int-tests. | 18:23 |
| sgotliv_ | oh | 18:23 |
| amrith | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/135398/2/trove/tests/api/replication.py,cm | 18:23 |
| SlickNik | (in real mode) | 18:24 |
| peterstac | This test looks like it was doing real work | 18:24 |
| amrith | test_slave_user_removed | 18:24 |
| amrith | that's the test in question | 18:24 |
| peterstac | But still shouldn't take long (removing a user should be pretty quick) | 18:24 |
| amrith | shouldn't but it sure appears that it is. | 18:24 |
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| SlickNik | peterstac: possibly something else going on here with the message? | 18:24 |
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| sgotliv_ | I suggest to discuss it in the main room later | 18:25 |
| amrith | ok | 18:25 |
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| SlickNik | Anyway, that's probably the last issue to look into before the merge — all the other tests pass, and that's one of the last few tests to run | 18:26 |
| amrith | so popping stack, on the present topic. | 18:26 |
| SlickNik | Thanks sgotliv_ | 18:26 |
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| amrith | are we ok with merging decrepit and geriatric oslo-incubator modules change first? | 18:26 |
| amrith | it was called something else but I can't remember what it was | 18:27 |
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| SlickNik | Yes, let's do that. | 18:27 |
| amrith | obsolete and deprecated, that's what it was. | 18:28 |
| amrith | ok, thanks. | 18:28 |
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| SlickNik | anything else on this before we move on? | 18:28 |
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| SlickNik | . | 18:29 |
| SlickNik | #topic Discuss status of moving guest agent to its own repository patch set | 18:29 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Discuss status of moving guest agent to its own repository patch set (Meeting topic: trove)" | 18:29 | |
| amrith | I put this on the agenda as well because it is a significant change | 18:29 |
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| amrith | and we discussed some (several) weeks ago that we should queiesce the tree | 18:30 |
| amrith | when we want this to merge. | 18:30 |
| amrith | I wanted to get a sense of where we are with this change and how it impacts other (potentially large) changes that are in the pipe. | 18:30 |
| schang | amrith, other then the occasional rebase, I haven't don't anything else on it. | 18:31 |
| schang | amrith, it's waiting for more feedback. | 18:31 |
| amrith | ok. | 18:31 |
| sgotliv_ | it definitely has a huge impact on messaging patch | 18:31 |
| amrith | yup | 18:32 |
| vgnbkr | Is this about moving the guest agent to it's own git repo, or just the refactoring? | 18:32 |
| SlickNik | vgnbkr: just the refactoring — in the same repo | 18:32 |
| schang | fyi, https://review.openstack.org/#/c/119425/ | 18:32 |
| vgnbkr | ok, great. | 18:33 |
| SlickNik | Also this needs to be reviewed first https://review.openstack.org/#/c/136918/ | 18:33 |
| SlickNik | i.e. the corresponding spec | 18:33 |
| amrith | sgotliv_, why is there a large overlap with o.m? | 18:33 |
| amrith | should be small to non-existant, I thought. | 18:33 |
| amrith | let me check | 18:33 |
| SlickNik | amrith: I would think it changes the guest RPC endpoints for every datastore. | 18:34 |
| SlickNik | (i.e. all the managers) | 18:34 |
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| amrith | ok, I'll look later but I recall at a previous meeting where it was discussed and the consensus (or statment) was that the overlap would be small. | 18:35 |
| amrith | given that the overlap may be large | 18:36 |
| sgotliv_ | amrith, try to rebase messaging patch on top of that one | 18:36 |
| amrith | it may not make sense for one of the two parties to continually rebase code now, until the other major change is merged. | 18:36 |
| amrith | we need to pick the ordering | 18:36 |
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| amrith | what do we want to do? | 18:36 |
| SlickNik | So it looks like we need more feedback / reviews on this — and oslo.messaging seems to be farther along. | 18:37 |
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| SlickNik | So I'd recommend merging that one first, while we get more reviews on this, and then rebasing this on top of that and merging it. | 18:38 |
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| amrith | as I recall there was some urgency at RAX to get this one done | 18:38 |
| amrith | is that no longer the case | 18:38 |
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| amrith | anyone at rax here? | 18:38 |
| sgotliv_ | SlickNik, you propose to merge messaging after that patch? | 18:38 |
| SlickNik | sgotliv_: other way round. merge oslo.messaging first. | 18:39 |
| sgotliv_ | thanks you!!!! | 18:39 |
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| amrith | phew | 18:40 |
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| sgotliv_ | amrith, I am not sure that reason is valid! | 18:40 |
| amrith | the sigh that sergey let out was so loud that it was detected by seismometers all over the world. | 18:40 |
| sgotliv_ | we don't represent companies upstream | 18:41 |
| sgotliv_ | remember? | 18:41 |
| SlickNik | amrith: Don't get me wrong, it's still an important patch to merge | 18:41 |
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| SlickNik | So we should look into reviews + feedback. | 18:42 |
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| SlickNik | and merging it soon. | 18:43 |
| amrith | SlickNik, fine with me. The last time when this was discussed some from RAX (maybe robert myers but also others) had expressed an interest in merging soon. | 18:43 |
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| amrith | I think we're set with this | 18:44 |
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| SlickNik | Sounds good. Any other questions wrt this? | 18:45 |
| amrith | so the conclusion was that the order would be | 18:45 |
| SlickNik | . | 18:45 |
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| amrith | 1. obsolete modules | 18:45 |
| amrith | 2. messaging | 18:45 |
| amrith | 3. split guest agent | 18:45 |
| amrith | thx | 18:46 |
| SlickNik | more like: | 18:47 |
| SlickNik | 1. obsolete modules | 18:47 |
| SlickNik | 1. messaging | 18:47 |
| SlickNik | 3. split guest agent | 18:47 |
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| SlickNik | Since we're saying that we'll let the obsolete modules merge — but if oslo.messaging makes in in after some of them while others are still in review, that's okay since there isn't an implicit ordering between those. | 18:48 |
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| amrith | ok, I'm confused. but that's fine. | 18:49 |
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| SlickNik | i.e. we're allowing obsolete modules to merge before oslo.messaging, but not requiring it. | 18:49 |
| amrith | ok | 18:50 |
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| SlickNik | #topic Open Discussion | 18:50 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: trove)" | 18:50 | |
| dougshelley66 | i have one | 18:50 |
| SlickNik | dougshelley66: go for it | 18:51 |
| dougshelley66 | just wanted to introduce Nirav Shah (nshah) - he joined our community this week | 18:51 |
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| dougshelley66 | (Note to sgotliv_ - notice i didn't say he joined Tesora :) ) | 18:51 |
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| SlickNik | Welcome nshah! | 18:51 |
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| sgotliv_ | welcome nshah! | 18:52 |
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| sgotliv_ | dougshelley66, I have a feeling you will say it in the future :-) | 18:52 |
| edmondk | welcome! | 18:52 |
| dougshelley66 | sgotliv_, have to eat.... | 18:53 |
| SlickNik | Feel free to hit me (or any of the others) up in #openstack-trove if you have any questions. | 18:53 |
| nshah | Thanks all! | 18:53 |
| SlickNik | On the same note — I'd like you all to meet danritchie as well | 18:54 |
| dougshelley66 | welcome danritchie! | 18:54 |
| esmute | Welcome danritchie! | 18:54 |
| sgotliv_ | wellcome | 18:54 |
| schang | hello danritchie | 18:54 |
| SlickNik | He's ramping up on trove, and is hoping to have his first contribution in soon. :) | 18:55 |
| peterstac | hi danritchie! | 18:55 |
| amrith | hello! welcome to trove! | 18:55 |
| amrith | while we are doing intros, and before sergey says it ... please also welcome vkmc to the trove community. Welcome Victoria! | 18:55 |
| danritchie | Thanks all! Cheers... | 18:56 |
| edmondk | Welcome Victoria! | 18:56 |
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| SlickNik | vkmc: Welcome aboard. :) | 18:56 |
| SlickNik | Wow so many new faces. | 18:56 |
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| vkmc | o/ | 18:56 |
| schang | vkmc: hello :) | 18:56 |
| SlickNik | Good to see it. | 18:56 |
| esmute | Welcome vkmc | 18:56 |
| vkmc | thanks all :) | 18:56 |
| dougshelley66 | SlickNik, do we still have that policy where the new people have to buy drinks at mid-cycle? | 18:57 |
| esmute | @SlickNik Any update about the mid-cyle meetup? | 18:57 |
| peterstac | Yeah, like the policy dougshelley66 is talking about ;) | 18:57 |
| SlickNik | esmute: confirmed to be Feb 3-5 | 18:57 |
| esmute | dougshelley66: And tell a joke too | 18:57 |
| amrith | dougshelley66, yes, that is the policy. VKMC bought drinks in Paris. | 18:57 |
| vkmc | haha :) | 18:58 |
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| amrith | SlickNik, any updates on hotes | 18:59 |
| amrith | hotels | 18:59 |
| SlickNik | esmute: Good reminder that I need to update the wiki with this info. | 18:59 |
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| amrith | and block rates | 18:59 |
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| SlickNik | amrith: Haven't heard back yet :(. I need to follow up. | 18:59 |
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| amrith | need a hand? | 18:59 |
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| SlickNik | #action Slicknik to follow up on hotels and block rates for mid-cycle. And update the wiki. | 19:00 |
| sgotliv_ | Guys, I apologize, but I have to go. Have a nice day. | 19:00 |
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| SlickNik | amrith: I'll ping you if I do, thanks! | 19:00 |
| SlickNik | Anything else? | 19:00 |
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| SlickNik | . | 19:01 |
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| SlickNik | #endmeeting | 19:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 19:01 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Dec 3 19:01:30 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 19:01 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/trove/2014/trove.2014-12-03-17.59.html | 19:01 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/trove/2014/trove.2014-12-03-17.59.txt | 19:01 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/trove/2014/trove.2014-12-03-17.59.log.html | 19:01 |
| SlickNik | Thanks all! | 19:01 |
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| annegent_ | #startmeeting docteam | 19:02 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Dec 3 19:02:04 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is annegent_. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 19:02 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 19:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: docteam)" | 19:02 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'docteam' | 19:02 |
| annegent_ | I'll go ahead and use "docteam" here so logs are easy to find | 19:02 |
| AJaeger_ | thanks, annegent_ | 19:02 |
| annegent_ | who all is here? | 19:02 |
| Sam-I-Am | hi | 19:02 |
| zigo | o/ | 19:02 |
| AJaeger_ | \o/ | 19:02 |
| AJaeger_ | Enough to start ;) | 19:02 |
| annegent_ | and o/ | 19:02 |
| annegent_ | cool | 19:02 |
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| annegent_ | Okay, the agenda is in the mailing list post from today | 19:03 |
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| annegent_ | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-docs/2014-December/005568.html | 19:03 |
| annegent_ | let's start with current status | 19:03 |
| annegent_ | #topic Description of current state | 19:03 |
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| annegent_ | Lots of fact finding, I actually had to look up some stuff for this :) | 19:04 |
| annegent_ | So, we currently publish four Install Guides | 19:04 |
| annegent_ | from one directory in openstack-manuals repo | 19:04 |
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| annegent_ | The files are automatically built and also the translation automation is in place for these. | 19:05 |
| Sam-I-Am | yep | 19:05 |
| annegent_ | Last release, this blueprint addressed an audit of the install guides: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/openstack-manuals/+spec/installation-guide-improvements | 19:06 |
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| Sam-I-Am | still not finished, but pretty close. | 19:06 |
| Sam-I-Am | huge amount of work | 19:06 |
| annegent_ | just the facts :) | 19:07 |
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| annegent_ | oh also | 19:07 |
| annegent_ | #link | 19:07 |
| annegent_ | er | 19:07 |
| annegent_ | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Documentation/InstallationGuideImprovements | 19:07 |
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| annegent_ | The blueprint addressed "Replace openstack-config (crudini) commands with general configuration file editing." | 19:08 |
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| annegent_ | There's a chapter about debconf output for the apt-debian version | 19:09 |
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| annegent_ | #link http://docs.openstack.org/juno/install-guide/install/apt-debian/content/ch_debconf.html | 19:09 |
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| annegent_ | And this one I had to look up, what's documented for DevStack? | 19:09 |
| Sam-I-Am | what do you mean? | 19:10 |
| annegent_ | #link http://docs.openstack.org/developer/devstack/ | 19:10 |
| annegent_ | Only Ubuntu 14.04 (Trusty), Fedora 20 and CentOS/RHEL 6.5 are documented here. OpenStack also runs and is packaged on other flavors of Linux such as OpenSUSE and Debian. | 19:10 |
| annegent_ | from that page ^^ | 19:10 |
| annegent_ | I wanted to include that fact finding since Tom brought up DevStack in the thread | 19:10 |
| Sam-I-Am | ahh | 19:10 |
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| zigo | As much as I know, what is written for Devstack in Ubuntu also works for Debian. | 19:11 |
| annegent_ | good to know | 19:11 |
| annegent_ | wasn't sure myself! | 19:11 |
| annegent_ | Then there are install tools documented by different companies in their own domains or doc sites | 19:11 |
| zigo | There used to be a few glitches which were corrected, though it's been a long time I didn't try. | 19:12 |
| annegent_ | anything else relevant? | 19:12 |
| annegent_ | Oh I thought of one more thing. | 19:12 |
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| Sam-I-Am | some aspects of openstack are kernel specific (neutron comes to mind) | 19:12 |
| AJaeger_ | zigo: The document says that it works for Debian but that it's not documented further... | 19:12 |
| Sam-I-Am | which might be why they support certain distro releases | 19:12 |
| annegent_ | I found this in the InstallationGuideImprovments wiki page "Modularize install guides for re-use as basic install guide for training guides.(dguitarbite/Pranav Salunke)" but I don't know how that was resolved exactly? | 19:12 |
| zigo | AJaeger_: Perfect then! | 19:12 |
| annegent_ | because I think training plays into the goals for the install guide too, so wanted to bring that up while stating current state. | 19:13 |
| annegent_ | I think current state for training is "working on a blueprint?" | 19:13 |
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| annegent_ | anyone know? | 19:13 |
| AJaeger_ | annegent_: they're still playing with the Install Guide, I helped them to build it only for Ubuntu, they did not profile at all | 19:13 |
| Sam-I-Am | annegent_: the original idea is that the training guide would follow the install guide since it covers basic service installation | 19:13 |
| annegent_ | AJaeger_: ok | 19:13 |
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| AJaeger_ | had a guide for "Debian;Ubuntu;Fedora;openSUSE" or something like that | 19:13 |
| AJaeger_ | That looked funny ;( | 19:13 |
| annegent_ | Sam-I-Am: in Paris they wanted their own chapter too | 19:14 |
| annegent_ | AJaeger_: heh | 19:14 |
| annegent_ | but I didn't know latest state there | 19:14 |
| AJaeger_ | Sam-I-Am: they're moving closer know | 19:14 |
| AJaeger_ | s/know/now/ | 19:14 |
| annegent_ | Okay AJaeger_ was it basically a conditional but new guide? | 19:14 |
| Sam-I-Am | annegent_: they could do X and get a version that meets the training guide needs (e.g., stick with neutron, not nova-or-neutron) | 19:14 |
| AJaeger_ | annegent_: it was our Install Guide, they just did not profile properly. | 19:14 |
| annegent_ | Sam-I-Am: yeah it was the mechanics of that we hadn't figured out | 19:14 |
| annegent_ | and those mechanics may be useful here, not real sure though | 19:15 |
| annegent_ | AJaeger_: ah ok | 19:15 |
| Sam-I-Am | AJaeger_: last i spoke with them, they wanted a top-level guide that only includes the files they want | 19:15 |
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| AJaeger_ | Sam-I-Am: We made some progress in Paris | 19:15 |
| AJaeger_ | but let's not discuss that further now | 19:16 |
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| Sam-I-Am | yes | 19:16 |
| annegent_ | ok, yeah don't want to dig too deep there, just wanted to know current state | 19:16 |
| annegent_ | which sounds like "training wants a certain install guide but haven't figured out how to build it yet" | 19:16 |
| annegent_ | yeah? | 19:16 |
| Sam-I-Am | pretty much | 19:16 |
| AJaeger_ | yep | 19:16 |
| annegent_ | Okay let's move into stated goals then. I did some etherpad digging! | 19:17 |
| annegent_ | First, all the way back to Grizzly | 19:17 |
| annegent_ | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/restructure-docs-session | 19:17 |
| annegent_ | My favorite quote, "What about for Havana, jettisoning the Install guides and focusing on configuration guides. Doc sequestration?" | 19:17 |
| annegent_ | now we all know that didnt' happen | 19:17 |
| annegent_ | there were board members who wanted to be sure there's an upstream install guide | 19:17 |
| annegent_ | so they gave us donated resources | 19:18 |
| annegent_ | But some other history is in there | 19:18 |
| annegent_ | themes like "Consistency for IP ranges" and "One happy path" | 19:18 |
| annegent_ | "One or two compute nodes" vs "all-in-one" was still being discussed | 19:18 |
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| annegent_ | some audience analysis, and also asking "what is the main goal for the install?" | 19:19 |
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| * sgordon sneaks in late | 19:19 | |
| annegent_ | hey sgordon welcome | 19:19 |
| annegent_ | so, anyone want to throw out "main goal for install" | 19:20 |
| annegent_ | I can try | 19:20 |
| Sam-I-Am | "basic working system" | 19:20 |
| sgordon | look mum i ran a vm! | 19:20 |
| annegent_ | "As an admin, I want to try to install OpenStack to learn about how the components work together so that I can automate an install" | 19:20 |
| sgordon | and it can download pictures of cats! | 19:20 |
| Sam-I-Am | services and their interactions are too complex to figure out from a config reference | 19:20 |
| Sam-I-Am | plus all the underlying dependencies (networking is hard) | 19:21 |
| annegent_ | "As a beginner, I want to install OpenStack on hardware I have available so that I can learn enough to ask more questions about OpenStack." | 19:21 |
| Sam-I-Am | nothing works without networking, so we need a place to hand-hold | 19:21 |
| zigo | annegent_: This is *not* a guide about teaching how to do automation, if it was the goal, then we failed it. | 19:21 |
| Sam-I-Am | sgordon: lol | 19:21 |
| Sam-I-Am | zigo: but once you have a manual installation, you know what your automation system needs to do | 19:22 |
| annegent_ | "As an architect, I want to install OpenStack enough times that I understand it well enough to provide an analysis for its applicability to my organization." | 19:22 |
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| zigo | Sam-I-Am: Yes, but that's not the goal, IMO. | 19:22 |
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| zigo | Just a consequence ... | 19:22 |
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| annegent_ | zigo: but if automation needs to become a goal we'd revise, so this exercise is about us agreeing on the goals | 19:22 |
| Sam-I-Am | configure prereqs, install and configure openstack services in a specific order, run openstack commands to populate services, etc. | 19:23 |
| annegent_ | In the early days, say 2 years ago, I always wanted an Install Guide that was one-up from DevStack. | 19:23 |
| zigo | "As an OpenStack user, I want to know how to install OpenStack on multiple machines" | 19:23 |
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| annegent_ | Closer to production than not. However as more complexity has gone into OpenStack, documenting production installs were not really possible. | 19:23 |
| Sam-I-Am | plus the variations on 'production' | 19:24 |
| annegent_ | was? anyway, grammar is hard :) | 19:24 |
| Sam-I-Am | like... do we include HA? how many of each service to we run? etc. | 19:24 |
| annegent_ | is it one up from devstack just due to the mulit-node-ness? | 19:24 |
| Sam-I-Am | most peoples eyes would roll back before they even got to the openstack services | 19:24 |
| Sam-I-Am | you'd always use multi-node in production | 19:25 |
| annegent_ | If the only goal is multi-node install then yes, HA comes into question. H. | 19:25 |
| annegent_ | er, I mean Hm. | 19:25 |
| sgordon | does it tho | 19:25 |
| zigo | I don't think HA is in the scope of the install-guide, unless we contain it to a specific chapter. | 19:25 |
| Sam-I-Am | so it gives people an idea of how the services generally fit on different servers | 19:25 |
| AJaeger_ | Agreed, this is not a production ready setup - otherwise we would need to cover HA and scalability concerns | 19:25 |
| sgordon | because at that point | 19:25 |
| sgordon | you end up talking more about pacemaker or whatever | 19:25 |
| sgordon | than openstack | 19:25 |
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| annegent_ | "As an OpenStack aficionado, I want to install OpenStack services of interest to me to poke at so I can figure out what all the fuss is about." | 19:25 |
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| zigo | I don't know what you call "production", but for many users, it doesn't mean huge deployment with HA and 100s of machines. | 19:26 |
| annegent_ | Ok, so we're somewhere between "not really production" and "not devstack" -- I think that's fair. | 19:26 |
| Sam-I-Am | i think one of the main goals is lowering the barrier to entry and giving people a usable system from which they can add more complexity later to support scalability, performance, security, etc. | 19:26 |
| zigo | Many users have only a few compute nodes without HA, and are very happy with it. | 19:26 |
| zigo | We need to have an answer for them too. | 19:26 |
| annegent_ | I think most companies are doing a better job at lowering the barrier to entry than we ever can do :) | 19:26 |
| zigo | For such a complex setup, I don't think you'd be doing things by hand anyway. | 19:26 |
| Sam-I-Am | the minimal # of things to do that ends up with a system that doesn't run in screen or disappear when you reboot (devstack) | 19:26 |
| AJaeger_ | annegent_: Agreed. | 19:27 |
| annegent_ | I think a goal is also "I need to install the open source cloud on open source platforms." | 19:27 |
| AJaeger_ | (but I'm biased ;) | 19:27 |
| Sam-I-Am | frankly only jenkins should use devstack | 19:27 |
| annegent_ | so I actually don't think it's about lowering barrier, I think it's about describing complexity. | 19:27 |
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| annegent_ | which may mean putting up barriers in some cases | 19:27 |
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| zigo | If we're about to describe HA setups, would you guys think it's ok to have it only in a single chapter? | 19:28 |
| annegent_ | Okay, so the goal for the Install Guide is "Readers should have a working OpenStack on minimal hardware using open source tooling." | 19:28 |
| annegent_ | zigo: we have a whole HA guide for that | 19:28 |
| zigo | annegent_: Ok, so we shouldn't talk about HA at all in the install-guide no? | 19:29 |
| annegent_ | readers goals: understand complexity, understand OpenStack options, have a working install when they're done? | 19:29 |
| Sam-I-Am | annegent_: also the case of 'i have an existing system and i want to try adding a new service to it, whats the minimal way to try it out?" | 19:29 |
| Sam-I-Am | hence the topic-based install guide | 19:29 |
| annegent_ | zigo: we don't now, but we also could do a better job at pointers to other guides, I think | 19:29 |
| AJaeger_ | zigo, HA has it's only guide. I would rather enhance the HA guide so that it builds on top of what the Install Guide does... | 19:29 |
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| zigo | I'm all for pointers! :) | 19:30 |
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| annegent_ | zigo: yeah I like pointers, it makes people less angry when the install guide doesn't do what _they_ think it should | 19:30 |
| annegent_ | I feel pretty comfortable defending and documenting those goals | 19:30 |
| annegent_ | I'll take an action to write that down in our wiki pages | 19:30 |
| annegent_ | as long as we're agreed | 19:30 |
| annegent_ | and we're okay with "minimal hardware" -- hm. | 19:31 |
| Sam-I-Am | thats the barrier to entry thing | 19:31 |
| Sam-I-Am | there's even people who dont have three nodes | 19:31 |
| Sam-I-Am | or three VMs... | 19:31 |
| annegent_ | I can write use cases up, yep, it's up to us to define minimal. | 19:32 |
| annegent_ | I'm comfortable with 2 nodes minimal | 19:32 |
| annegent_ | not one node, I prefer to leave that to devstack | 19:32 |
| Sam-I-Am | i've thrown around the idea of offering an all-in-one version of the install guide architecture | 19:32 |
| annegent_ | but can be dissuaded | 19:32 |
| Sam-I-Am | lots of people understandably get fed up with devstack | 19:32 |
| zigo | The biggest work for an all-in-one guide would be in Neutron, I believe. | 19:33 |
| annegent_ | Lots of people use devstack for production. Can't be helped apparently. | 19:33 |
| zigo | Otherwise, there's not much change. | 19:33 |
| Sam-I-Am | its not bad to document, however... the issue comes with troubleshooting. | 19:33 |
| annegent_ | Oh, and one more bit of history | 19:33 |
| annegent_ | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/installation-guide-audit | 19:33 |
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| Sam-I-Am | trying to trace networking problems on a single node is a pain | 19:33 |
| annegent_ | that was from prior to that blueprint | 19:33 |
| annegent_ | I don't see much about goals in it though. | 19:33 |
| Sam-I-Am | also trying to get a mental image of how it all sticks together | 19:33 |
| Sam-I-Am | this is why i tend to downplay all-in-ones | 19:33 |
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| annegent_ | yeah to me, single node doesn't meet the goal of "understand complexity" | 19:34 |
| Sam-I-Am | sure, they use less hardware, but they make things overly complex | 19:34 |
| Sam-I-Am | and you'd never have an AIO in production | 19:34 |
| zigo | Sam-I-Am: I agree. | 19:34 |
| annegent_ | yeah | 19:34 |
| Sam-I-Am | so the config doesn't really apply | 19:34 |
| Sam-I-Am | you can easily grow the two-node/three-node arch | 19:34 |
| annegent_ | so let's make sure we've got the right audience in mind also | 19:34 |
| sgordon | Sam-I-Am, for all in one would we be better off giving people pointers to throwing it up in VMs on a single machine... | 19:34 |
| Sam-I-Am | much of it is just config duplication with new IPs | 19:34 |
| annegent_ | "poking at OpenStack" or "OpenStack planner"? | 19:34 |
| sgordon | Sam-I-Am, thus allowing us to use same path for rest of instructions | 19:34 |
| Sam-I-Am | sgordon: we mention using VMs and i think a lot of people choose that route | 19:35 |
| sgordon | right | 19:35 |
| Sam-I-Am | there's some caveats though | 19:35 |
| annegent_ | we pretty much think the audience doesn't have a lot of spare hardware laying around? | 19:35 |
| annegent_ | nor are they likely to do a manual install in any permanent system, right? | 19:35 |
| AJaeger_ | And the scripts of the training team set up the Install Guide architecture. | 19:35 |
| AJaeger_ | So, if you want to have an automatic setup, just uses their scripts! | 19:35 |
| AJaeger_ | (all in three VMs) | 19:36 |
| Sam-I-Am | annegent_: people do manual installs on actual hardware | 19:36 |
| sgordon | annegent_, i think our audience depends! | 19:36 |
| zigo | annegent_: It's quite easy to get a single machine running multiple VMs to just try OpenStack. | 19:36 |
| annegent_ | okay | 19:36 |
| annegent_ | so our audience, more likely to do VMs or find hardware? | 19:36 |
| AJaeger_ | zigo: agreed, I'll do it on my laptop ;) | 19:36 |
| AJaeger_ | annegent_: yeah | 19:36 |
| Sam-I-Am | annegent_: depends on their goals | 19:36 |
| annegent_ | Sam-I-Am: go on | 19:36 |
| annegent_ | Sam-I-Am: goes into task analysis, which I also want to hear more about | 19:37 |
| sgordon | i really think the answer is both | 19:37 |
| Sam-I-Am | annegent_: you can't do a lot of realistic testing with VMs due to performance issues | 19:37 |
| sgordon | i dont think we could pigeon hole whether they will do VMs or find hardware | 19:37 |
| annegent_ | task: proof of concept for work vs. task: home lab prior to work (Thinking of the BMW guy) | 19:37 |
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| Sam-I-Am | i've been working with someone the last few weeks who is using the install guide arch as a minimal way to test single-network-node performance | 19:38 |
| annegent_ | task: install many times to learn enough to automate (that's the task I hear at user groups where I ask about the install guide) | 19:38 |
| annegent_ | task: install with different configs for compare/contrast? | 19:38 |
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| annegent_ | ^^ wow is that really one of their tasks, ouch | 19:38 |
| Sam-I-Am | lots of novanet-vs-neutron goes on | 19:38 |
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| annegent_ | I say ouch because that makes my fingers and wrists ache | 19:38 |
| Sam-I-Am | and soon there will be dvr-vs-l3ha | 19:38 |
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| Sam-I-Am | the networking guide builds minimal dvr and l3ha architectures off the install guide neutron architecture | 19:39 |
| annegent_ | zigo: I know you had some tasks, one was "task: set up a small private cloud" I believe | 19:39 |
| zigo | Yeah. | 19:39 |
| annegent_ | zigo: multi node, right? | 19:39 |
| zigo | I had some feedback from users using the install-guide for that. | 19:39 |
| zigo | Yup. | 19:39 |
| annegent_ | okay | 19:40 |
| annegent_ | any other tasks? | 19:40 |
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| Sam-I-Am | annegent_: did you cover the "i want to try swift" case? | 19:40 |
| Sam-I-Am | or $optionalservice | 19:40 |
| annegent_ | oh yeah that too, we decided 3 nodes was okay for swift, right? | 19:40 |
| annegent_ | task: set up storage-only cloud | 19:40 |
| Sam-I-Am | sometimes people build a minimal install, then add $optionalservice to try it out | 19:40 |
| zigo | Single controler that also does networking, multiple compute, and often a small Ceph cluster. | 19:41 |
| zigo | I by the way would think it'd be great to cover Ceph in the install-guide. | 19:41 |
| Sam-I-Am | swift was a bad choice there. lets say cinder :) | 19:41 |
| annegent_ | task: add on a service to an existing OpenStack cloud | 19:41 |
| annegent_ | zigo: I want to document only upstream OpenStack please :) | 19:41 |
| AJaeger_ | I would not add ceph setup to the guide | 19:41 |
| annegent_ | zigo: and not get into governance/politics | 19:41 |
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| sgordon | where is the fun in that | 19:42 |
| zigo | Ceph is often prefered to swift for small clouds, so that it does both object storage & volume in a distributed way. | 19:42 |
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| annegent_ | sgordon: hee | 19:42 |
| annegent_ | zigo: sure, but why would I use sparse resources for a non-OpenStack project? | 19:42 |
| Sam-I-Am | pretty sure the audience doesn't need more complexity | 19:42 |
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| AJaeger_ | Looking at the November OpenStack users survey, the majority of installations uses ceph - so integration of an existing ceph cluster is something we probably should document somewhere | 19:42 |
| sgordon | my take is that if someone wants to write a module for X | 19:42 |
| sgordon | would we reject it | 19:42 |
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| zigo | annegent_: Because it's what people use in real deployments. | 19:42 |
| Sam-I-Am | ceph feels like an HA thing? | 19:42 |
| sgordon | not really | 19:42 |
| annegent_ | I worry about maintenance ongoing | 19:42 |
| sgordon | any more than swift is | 19:43 |
| AJaeger_ | This is something that belongs in one of the other guides | 19:43 |
| annegent_ | ceph implements the swift api I think | 19:43 |
| annegent_ | yeah I want more narrow definition for install guide | 19:43 |
| Sam-I-Am | well, for another meeting :) | 19:43 |
| annegent_ | heck we barely get to newly incubated now | 19:43 |
| annegent_ | newly integrated I mean | 19:43 |
| annegent_ | ok is that all the tasks? | 19:43 |
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| AJaeger_ | We document the OpenStack setup in the Install Guide. And any other hardware or software enhancements will be documented elsewhere | 19:43 |
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| zigo | annegent_: It does, and soon we'll be able to use only swift-proxy with everything else on Ceph. | 19:44 |
| Sam-I-Am | annegent_: "where do i go from here" probably covers HA, ceph, automation, etc. | 19:44 |
| annegent_ | pointers, yep. | 19:44 |
| zigo | (currently, there's only a ceph back-end for the object filesystem storage, so it's not great...) | 19:44 |
| Sam-I-Am | security... | 19:44 |
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| annegent_ | scope: chosen audiences and tasks | 19:44 |
| Sam-I-Am | we can include things like that at the end of the install guide "hey your VM works... now you can install $optionalservices and if you're ready to join the big leagues, check these docs" | 19:45 |
| annegent_ | scope: only integrated OpenStack projects | 19:45 |
| Sam-I-Am | annegent_: i hear there is an openstack-ansible thing :) | 19:45 |
| annegent_ | scope: open source tooling | 19:45 |
| annegent_ | scope: enable translation | 19:45 |
| annegent_ | I think all those scopes are agreed to? | 19:45 |
| AJaeger_ | such a generic chapter "Next steps" would be a welcome addition. But let's make it short and abstract | 19:45 |
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| annegent_ | oh one more scope: | 19:45 |
| Sam-I-Am | AJaeger_: we have the structure already. | 19:45 |
| Sam-I-Am | AJaeger_: it was one of the icehouse neutron reorg topics | 19:46 |
| annegent_ | who are the maintainers as we go towards more and more added services? the project teams or distro teams or upstream team? | 19:46 |
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| annegent_ | and then really we can dive into solutions, I think we've laid out a lot of the considerations to keep in mind | 19:46 |
| Sam-I-Am | annegent_: i dont mind adding content to the install guide, but i would like a source of "here are the minimal requirements, here is a minimal tested working config, maybe some diagrams" | 19:46 |
| annegent_ | (hopefully 15 mins is enough to work on solutions) | 19:47 |
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| Sam-I-Am | those of us that maintain the install guide generally know how services need to fit in | 19:47 |
| annegent_ | so upstream docs is the maintainer? Or is it a chapter maintainer per service? | 19:48 |
| AJaeger_ | Sam-I-Am: Next steps currently points to the next chapter. I was thinking of a total new chapter - but then let's call it differently. But that's another discussion, not for now | 19:48 |
| sgordon | i think it depends | 19:48 |
| Sam-I-Am | annegent_: we'd lose consistency with chapter maintainers | 19:48 |
| Sam-I-Am | this has happened before | 19:48 |
| sgordon | trove is an example where it seems there is a dedicated resource | 19:48 |
| sgordon | but i think most people contribute across the guide | 19:48 |
| sgordon | not to a single section | 19:48 |
| Sam-I-Am | i dont necessarily need to write the content, but i definitely want to be involved before it gets merged | 19:49 |
| annegent_ | sgordon: yeah there's definitely not a "glance maintainer" for example | 19:49 |
| annegent_ | there's a "nova neutron glance keystone" set | 19:49 |
| annegent_ | and a "swift" set | 19:49 |
| annegent_ | and a "added on services" set that may be more easily distributed | 19:49 |
| sgordon | we might see more of the trove-style approach as more *aaS are added | 19:49 |
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| Sam-I-Am | if we had project docs liasons, they would get poked at prior to release saying "did anything change that affects the install guide? here's what we do now" | 19:49 |
| zigo | Do we really have to establish this kind of rules? Sometimes, chaos works out well ... :P | 19:49 |
| sgordon | but not sure it applies now | 19:49 |
| annegent_ | zigo: heh. yeah I hear that a lot, and will have to get more towards chaos this release, completely understand that | 19:50 |
| Sam-I-Am | zigo: any way to reduce the chaos that is openstack is a good idea. | 19:50 |
| annegent_ | but for now I'm holding the line for install / config | 19:50 |
| annegent_ | since those are release deliverables | 19:50 |
| Sam-I-Am | people have one goal: launch a VM | 19:50 |
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| annegent_ | When I play out the distributed teams route, I nearly always figure we'd have to give up conditional per-distro output. | 19:51 |
| Sam-I-Am | and we get them there in a step-by-step process so it isn't all magic | 19:51 |
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| annegent_ | and I'm not ready to give that up yet | 19:51 |
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| annegent_ | cept for those who just want to store something | 19:51 |
| annegent_ | and ping the vm | 19:52 |
| Sam-I-Am | annegent_: given persistent packaging issues, i'd like to install just openstack from source, but rely on the distro for dependencies (read: rpc) | 19:52 |
| Sam-I-Am | then we can pretty much be distro-agnostic as long as you meet the dependency requirements | 19:52 |
| annegent_ | Sam-I-Am: for ease of documenting as a goal? | 19:52 |
| annegent_ | dependency-management are the value add from a distro right? | 19:53 |
| Sam-I-Am | the conditionals and testing all these distros is a lot of overhead... and we also don't see packages until after release. | 19:53 |
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| AJaeger_ | annegent_: and also integration into the distribution, for example start/stop scripts | 19:53 |
| Sam-I-Am | AJaeger_: thats one caveat, but we have things to write those. | 19:53 |
| annegent_ | real basic question, do distros need their OpenStack Install docs on docs.openstack.org? | 19:53 |
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| AJaeger_ | It's also distros versus products. | 19:54 |
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| zigo | annegent_: It's not at least for Ubuntu, as I'm doing all of their work in this regard! :) | 19:54 |
| zigo | (I mean, they did zero dependency packaging for Juno...) | 19:54 |
| AJaeger_ | For our OpenStack product - SUSE Cloud - we have the documentation including Crowbar for setup at the SUSE pages. I think Red Hat does it similar... | 19:54 |
| annegent_ | not their value add? Heh. We document for them too. All take no give? | 19:54 |
| sgordon | annegent_, well i think we put them there for manual install instructions | 19:55 |
| sgordon | if it wasnt using the packaged install there we would focus on RDO site | 19:55 |
| sgordon | (same as we do for automation w/ packstack) | 19:55 |
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| Sam-I-Am | some other distros have their own install guides, but often wrapped around products (read: automation)... sometimes pay products. | 19:55 |
| zigo | I do believe it's important for me to have docs in the official OpenStack site. | 19:55 |
| annegent_ | so Sam-I-Am if there was this non-packaged way to install, what becomes the doc dependency for maintenance? Ansible scripts? | 19:56 |
| sgordon | i would hope not | 19:56 |
| Sam-I-Am | i also hear that the distro-specific docs dont always go to the level of detail we do with explaining stuff. explaining stuff is a BIG part of the install guide. | 19:56 |
| annegent_ | zigo: okay, seems that way for debian and ubuntu (I dont' know of Canonical docs site ?) | 19:56 |
| zigo | There's no "products" or "vendor" in my case, so we do rely on community, and nobody will do a specific Debian install-guide. | 19:56 |
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| annegent_ | sgordon: you would hope not, referring to? | 19:57 |
| zigo | Sam-I-Am: Yeah, that's the point. The install-guide really goes into details which is good. | 19:57 |
| sgordon | annegent_, your comment wrt ansible | 19:57 |
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| Sam-I-Am | annegent_: yeah, ansible scripts. | 19:57 |
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| sgordon | it would seem weird to go to all this effort to keep specific automation tools out of the guide | 19:57 |
| sgordon | then annoint one | 19:57 |
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| Sam-I-Am | annegent_: we have a good source of those, though. | 19:57 |
| annegent_ | sgordon: ok, yeah want to uncover what we would be dependent upon working (and what we would have to troubleshoot) | 19:57 |
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| AJaeger_ | annegent_: Do we have to finish soon or can we stay longer in the room? | 19:57 |
| annegent_ | AJaeger_: ah, time got away | 19:57 |
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| annegent_ | Looking | 19:57 |
| annegent_ | yeah Octavia's in here next | 19:58 |
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| annegent_ | Ok, let's make sure we know what we can do next. | 19:58 |
| Sam-I-Am | can we beat them up? | 19:58 |
| annegent_ | I want to document our goals | 19:58 |
| rm_work | Sam-I-Am: T_T | 19:58 |
| annegent_ | state the audience | 19:58 |
| sbalukoff | ... | 19:58 |
| Sam-I-Am | lol | 19:58 |
| annegent_ | state the tasks | 19:58 |
| annegent_ | on the mailing list and wiki | 19:58 |
| annegent_ | I'd also like to hear from training team | 19:58 |
| Sam-I-Am | we didnt get to solutions, so maybe another meeting? | 19:59 |
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| annegent_ | and I'll add it to the doc team agenda for next week, which is 1400 UTC (right?) Wed. | 19:59 |
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| Sam-I-Am | yep | 19:59 |
| annegent_ | "it" being "solution discussion for Install Guide" | 19:59 |
| annegent_ | does that work? | 19:59 |
| Sam-I-Am | sure. might consume the entire hour :P | 19:59 |
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| annegent_ | there's only four to choose from :) | 20:00 |
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| annegent_ | Okay, handing it over, thanks for making it work all. | 20:00 |
| annegent_ | #endmeeting | 20:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 20:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Dec 3 20:00:19 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 20:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/docteam/2014/docteam.2014-12-03-19.02.html | 20:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/docteam/2014/docteam.2014-12-03-19.02.txt | 20:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/docteam/2014/docteam.2014-12-03-19.02.log.html | 20:00 |
| sbalukoff | #startmeeting Octavia | 20:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Dec 3 20:00:29 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is sbalukoff. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 20:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 20:00 |
| xgerman | o/ | 20:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: Octavia)" | 20:00 | |
| sbalukoff | #topic Roll Call | 20:00 |
| TrevorV_ | o/ | 20:00 |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'octavia' | 20:00 |
| rm_work | o/ | 20:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Roll Call (Meeting topic: Octavia)" | 20:00 | |
| rohara | o/ | 20:00 |
| johnsom | o/ | 20:00 |
| blogan | hi | 20:00 |
| xgerman | o/ | 20:00 |
| ajmiller | o/ | 20:00 |
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| sbalukoff | Howdy folks! | 20:00 |
| blogan | \o/ | 20:00 |
| rm_work | Well hello there! | 20:00 |
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| jwarendt | Hi | 20:01 |
| sbalukoff | This is our agenda for today: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Octavia/Weekly_Meeting_Agenda#Agenda | 20:01 |
| sbalukoff | #topic Quick "Octavia" trademark update | 20:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Quick "Octavia" trademark update (Meeting topic: Octavia)" | 20:01 | |
| sbalukoff | #link: http://tsdr.uspto.gov/#caseNumber=86319369&caseType=SERIAL_NO&searchType=statusSearch | 20:02 |
| xgerman | so we now can oppose :-) | 20:02 |
| jamiem | o/ | 20:02 |
| sbalukoff | So that came in yesterday. Apparently it's now published on the USPTO's publications that they intend to grant the trademark. | 20:02 |
| blogan | awesome | 20:02 |
| xgerman | +1 | 20:02 |
| rm_work | Octavia is one of the stylist's names in The Hunger Games :P | 20:03 |
| sbalukoff | And anyone who objects has 11 weeks to register their objection (and explain why granting the trademark would damage them. | 20:03 |
| rm_work | noticed that this weekendf | 20:03 |
| blogan | im objecting | 20:03 |
| xgerman | me, too | 20:03 |
| sbalukoff | After 11 weeks, if there aren't objections (or sufficiently justified objections), the trademark gets granted. | 20:03 |
| rm_work | cool, so, by Kilo right? :) | 20:03 |
| sbalukoff | Basically, yes. | 20:03 |
| sbalukoff | Again, assuming nobody goes through the legal paperwork / filing fees to seriously object. | 20:04 |
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| sbalukoff | So, anyway, I just wanted to keep you updated on the latest developments there. | 20:04 |
| sbalukoff | #topic Octavia hack-a-thon in December | 20:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Octavia hack-a-thon in December (Meeting topic: Octavia)" | 20:04 | |
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| xgerman | this will be epic | 20:04 |
| sbalukoff | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/octavia-kilo-meetup | 20:04 |
| sbalukoff | Yes, I hope so! | 20:05 |
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| sbalukoff | I hope it's a really productive week for all of us, eh! | 20:05 |
| rm_work | such whiteboarding | 20:05 |
| rm_work | so collaboration | 20:05 |
| rm_work | wow | 20:05 |
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| sbalukoff | Haha | 20:05 |
| sbalukoff | As a reminder, please RSVP if you intend on coming so that HP can accommodate all of us. | 20:05 |
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| TrevorV_ | I'll go if HP pays for my room/board/travel :P | 20:05 |
| sbalukoff | Also, as a reminder, if there are additional specific topics you'd like to see a whiteboarding / design session on, please list them at the end of that document. | 20:05 |
| rohara | RSVP is just putting name on the etherpad? | 20:06 |
| barclaac | Correct | 20:06 |
| xgerman | yep | 20:06 |
| sbalukoff | rohara: Yes. | 20:06 |
| rohara | ack | 20:06 |
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| blogan | i know we can mix neutron lbaas and octavia subjects, but the agenda has a discussion point being about lbaas object sharing | 20:06 |
| sbalukoff | So that's about 2 weeks away. I'm thinking there's time in the mean time to get some of the discussions underway on the mailing list or what have you so we can hit the ground running at the hack-a-thon | 20:07 |
| blogan | isn't that neutron lbaas? | 20:07 |
| blogan | or are we looking to do something similar in octavia as well? | 20:07 |
| sbalukoff | blogan: It is, but it does affect Octavia of course. | 20:07 |
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| sbalukoff | As long as Octavia is using Neutron LBaaS as its user API front-end (ie. indefinitely, per the current plan), discussions of how that interface works do affect us. | 20:08 |
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| sbalukoff | Not to mention the fact that both groups share about 90% of the same people. :) | 20:08 |
| blogan | well that is somethign we will discuss there as well | 20:08 |
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| sbalukoff | So, I think it's a good idea to actually have a mailing list discussion about status information, since that directly impacts the object model sharing, which directly impacts how the API works for the user. | 20:08 |
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| sbalukoff | I can get that started if y'all like. | 20:09 |
| blogan | actually | 20:09 |
| sbalukoff | Unless y'all think it would be a bad idea to get that going now. | 20:09 |
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| xgerman | I think it doesn't matter to the user where status is tored | 20:09 |
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| xgerman | stored | 20:09 |
| blogan | we can discuss on this bp | 20:09 |
| blogan | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/138205/ | 20:09 |
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| blogan | nothing about sharing there, but its the repoposed lbaas v2 spec for kilo | 20:09 |
| sbalukoff | blogan: Ok, sounds good. | 20:10 |
| xgerman | +1 | 20:10 |
| jorgem | sbalukoff: can you send the agenda link again? sorry just joined. I just want to add some items | 20:10 |
| sbalukoff | xgerman: It's not about where or how status is stored, it's about how it's represented to the user. | 20:10 |
| blogan | and i did make some changes, but if we wanted to do sharing like sam suggested, we would need to make that decision sooner rather than later | 20:10 |
| sbalukoff | jorgem: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Octavia/Weekly_Meeting_Agenda#Agenda | 20:10 |
| sbalukoff | blogan: Sounds good. | 20:11 |
| xgerman | sam explicitly talked about storing... | 20:11 |
| sbalukoff | #action everyone participate in LBaaSv2 object model discussion here: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/138205/ | 20:11 |
| sbalukoff | xgerman: I don't think he understood what I was getting at either. | 20:11 |
| sbalukoff | (And that may be because I wasn't clear in what I was saying.) | 20:12 |
| xgerman | +1 | 20:12 |
| sbalukoff | Anyway, are there any other discussions we should "prime" prior to the hack-a-thon? | 20:12 |
| sbalukoff | Mostly, I want to make sure the face-to-face time we have is used as effectively as possible. | 20:12 |
| sbalukoff | And it can be useful to test the waters a bit, as it were, before having a face-to-face discussion. | 20:13 |
| blogan | the controller being split up into smaller stories would be a good one | 20:14 |
| sbalukoff | I agree! | 20:14 |
| blogan | but that is dependent on a larger conversation that will be best had at the hackathon | 20:14 |
| sbalukoff | I'd love to see something about the discussions y'all apparently have been having at rackspace | 20:14 |
| blogan | but we can start the controller monolithic story up in the ML | 20:14 |
| blogan | discussions on how to overthrow you? | 20:14 |
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| sbalukoff | blogan: Do you have time to get that going? | 20:14 |
| johnsom | The initial direction for the controller is up for WIP review..... | 20:15 |
| sbalukoff | (both of those? ) | 20:15 |
| sbalukoff | ;) | 20:15 |
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| TrevorV_ | johnsom, link here please? | 20:15 |
| sbalukoff | Ok, so let's have the discussion in gerrit then? | 20:15 |
| blogan | yeah we will try to get somethign out by the end of the week on teh ML | 20:15 |
| sbalukoff | blogan: Thanks | 20:15 |
| blogan | well gerrit and resort to ML if it requires a huge writeup | 20:15 |
| johnsom | #link https://review.openstack.org/136540 | 20:15 |
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| sbalukoff | #action Rackspace team to get something out on the mailing list about whiteboard discussions they've been having / monolithic controller discussion | 20:15 |
| johnsom | Posted back on the 22nd | 20:16 |
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| sballe | hey | 20:16 |
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| sbalukoff | johnsom: I'll take a look today or tomorrow. Thanks for posting that! | 20:16 |
| TrevorV_ | yeah thanks johnsom | 20:16 |
| sbalukoff | Ok... moving on. | 20:16 |
| sbalukoff | #topic Progress reports | 20:17 |
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| rm_work | yeah looks kinda similar to what we were talking about here, though our discussions have been more about HOW the communications happen | 20:17 |
| rm_work | more than "what are the communication lines" | 20:17 |
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| sbalukoff | operator-api: Update from blogan / TrevorV? | 20:17 |
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| TrevorV_ | I've added the controller spec to the prioritized reviews page for johnsom | 20:17 |
| sbalukoff | Nice! | 20:18 |
| blogan | well i can respond to your comment | 20:18 |
| blogan | right now | 20:18 |
| blogan | in taht decimal versions don't make sense | 20:18 |
| sbalukoff | Uh-oh. | 20:18 |
| sbalukoff | Why is that? | 20:18 |
| johnsom | It was already on there.... | 20:18 |
| johnsom | The line above your new one... Grin | 20:18 |
| blogan | i know, thats something we'll need to fix | 20:18 |
| sbalukoff | Other APIs using versioning in OpenStack are using decimals. | 20:18 |
| TrevorV_ | Lulz | 20:18 |
| TrevorV_ | I'm observant, can you tell? | 20:19 |
| blogan | but they never use the minor version, at least as far as i can tell | 20:19 |
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| sbalukoff | xgerman: What are your thoughts on this? | 20:19 |
| sballe | I think we should do the decimal versions. | 20:19 |
| xgerman | +1 | 20:19 |
| TrevorV_ | Oh good, you guys are talking about some stuff I was going to bring up ha ha | 20:20 |
| sbalukoff | sballe: Why? | 20:20 |
| sballe | It makes the versioning consistent across the various services. | 20:20 |
| sbalukoff | I don't want to rat-hole on this too far... but if it's something we can resolve quickly, let's do so. | 20:20 |
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| sballe | I am looking ofr a specific example | 20:20 |
| xgerman | we had some discussion where we said we will only increase majore version in the API | 20:20 |
| blogan | neutron doesnt have a decimal | 20:20 |
| sbalukoff | If we can't resolve this quickly, lets do it in comments on the gerrit review. | 20:20 |
| xgerman | neutron has LBaaS v1 in Beutron V2 | 20:20 |
| sbalukoff | blogan: I thought v2.0 would? | 20:21 |
| rm_work | I thought other services were moving away from decimals, but maybe not now, since nova stopped work on v3 and went to v2.1 | 20:21 |
| rm_work | >_>\ | 20:21 |
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| blogan | ok this will be a rathole | 20:21 |
| sbalukoff | Heh! | 20:21 |
| blogan | lol | 20:22 |
| blogan | lets do gerrit | 20:22 |
| xgerman | yeah, abandoning decimals seems premature | 20:22 |
| sbalukoff | Ok, let's do it in gerrit. | 20:22 |
| rm_work | OH | 20:22 |
| sballe | xgerman +1 | 20:22 |
| rm_work | i remembered why i didn't like decimals | 20:22 |
| blogan | plus i have to restart my brain to remember the good reasons i had | 20:22 |
| xgerman | rm_work do you like math in general? | 20:22 |
| * TrevorV_ likes math | 20:22 | |
| rm_work | because anything inside a major version should be backwards compatible, and we can SHOW the decimal versions, but it should never be part of a URL | 20:23 |
| rm_work | xgerman: i hate math in general :P | 20:23 |
| sbalukoff | #action Interested parties should have discussion over whether to have decimal version numbers for the api on the gerrit review for the same. | 20:23 |
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| rm_work | so our URL should always be whatever.com/lbaas/v2/loadbalancer/124325456 | 20:23 |
| sbalukoff | rm_work: Take it to gerrit, please | 20:23 |
| rm_work | but our version could come back in the header as v2.1.34 | 20:23 |
| sbalukoff | Ok! | 20:23 |
| TrevorV_ | sbalukoff, real quick, should that be on the documentation review or the actual operator API review? | 20:23 |
| rm_work | lol fine | 20:23 |
| rm_work | sbalukoff: spoilsport >_< | 20:23 |
| sbalukoff | TrevorV_: Aah, good question. I think the discussion is already happening on the Operator API review | 20:24 |
| blogan | yes do it on that review | 20:24 |
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| TrevorV_ | Alright | 20:24 |
| blogan | i should have responded with the reasons we came up with in IRC, but i am a jack ass | 20:24 |
| sbalukoff | This one: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/121233/ | 20:24 |
| * TrevorV_ does not dispute | 20:24 | |
| sbalukoff | Haha! | 20:24 |
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| TrevorV_ | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/121233/ | 20:25 |
| sbalukoff | Ok, progress report on the amphora-api: | 20:25 |
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| sbalukoff | I need some more eyes on the review: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/126801/ | 20:25 |
| sbalukoff | Also, I need rm_work to respond to my response to him. ;) | 20:26 |
| rm_work | ack | 20:26 |
| sbalukoff | It's been a hectic week, and I have not had heard back from davidlenwell about code progress there yet (he's remote, and text is our primary means of communication) | 20:26 |
| sbalukoff | So... not much progress there. | 20:26 |
| sballe | could somebody remind me where the etherpad with all the reviews is? | 20:26 |
| TrevorV_ | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/126801/ | 20:27 |
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| sbalukoff | sballe: It's not been updated in a while | 20:27 |
| sbalukoff | I typically work off this: https://review.openstack.org/#/q/stackforge/octavia+status:open,n,z | 20:27 |
| TrevorV_ | sbalukoff, I update it often | 20:27 |
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| TrevorV_ | Just not sure on priority for reviews mostly | 20:27 |
| blogan | i work off that too sbalukoff | 20:27 |
| sbalukoff | Oh? Ok. | 20:27 |
| johnsom | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/octavia-pending-reviews | 20:27 |
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| sbalukoff | johnsom: Can you give us an update on the amphora base image creation scripts? | 20:28 |
| johnsom | Yes, we need reviews! | 20:28 |
| sbalukoff | That's probably going to be a theme here. | 20:28 |
| johnsom | I'm not a fan of adding versions to sub-components like the build script. | 20:28 |
| TrevorV_ | sbalukoff, trending eh? | 20:29 |
| sbalukoff | #action We need people to do reviews. No seriously, we do. | 20:29 |
| johnsom | I also added a comment about the haproxy.conf template place holder in the notes. | 20:29 |
| blogan | people still recovering from thanksgiving | 20:29 |
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| johnsom | Other than that. Nothing more to report. Just needs reviews and +2s | 20:29 |
| sbalukoff | blogan: Agreed. | 20:29 |
| sbalukoff | johnsom: Sounds good. Thanks! | 20:29 |
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| rm_work | yeah, recovering from Thanksgiving and Yosemite | 20:30 |
| sbalukoff | Ok, update on compute driver interface. amiller and TrevorV? | 20:30 |
| rm_work | stupid Yosemite... | 20:30 |
| TrevorV_ | Oh crap | 20:30 |
| blogan | let me guess : reviews | 20:30 |
| sbalukoff | blogan +1 | 20:31 |
| ajmiller | as far as I am aware, by review is done and merged. | 20:31 |
| TrevorV_ | Yeah, in this case though I also have some questions to have answered | 20:31 |
| TrevorV_ | ajmiller, is correct | 20:31 |
| xgerman | he always is :-) | 20:31 |
| ajmiller | I wish | 20:31 |
| sbalukoff | TrevorV_: Are they brief, or should we answer them elsewhere? | 20:31 |
| TrevorV_ | sbalukoff, I responded in the review with my concerns for the management_network | 20:31 |
| TrevorV_ | I feel they aren't brief ha ha | 20:31 |
| sbalukoff | Yeah, that's definitely not a brief discussion. | 20:32 |
| TrevorV_ | (They may turn out to be, but the unknown is best to assume the worst) | 20:32 |
| blogan | oh yeah i need more explanation on that one sbalukoff | 20:32 |
| xgerman | I am wondering if we can sidestep it for the sake of having that merged | 20:32 |
| sbalukoff | Ok, I think in order to have that discussion, we need a better understanding of topologies. | 20:32 |
| blogan | ive been assuming its only the network used for controller and amphorae communication | 20:32 |
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| sbalukoff | Which may not happen before the hack-a-thon | 20:32 |
| TrevorV_ | blogan, sbalukoff, xgerman we can talk more during open discussion after the main topics are covered | 20:32 |
| sbalukoff | I would like to see the spec merged with the idea that it can always be modified based on later discussion. | 20:33 |
| xgerman | k, sound sgood | 20:33 |
| blogan | fine by me | 20:33 |
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| sbalukoff | Nothing we do here is immutable, eh! | 20:33 |
| TrevorV_ | +1 sbalukoff I have no problems with that thought process either | 20:33 |
| blogan | sbalukoff: i hope everyone understands thats the case with every spec | 20:33 |
| sbalukoff | blogan: Me too! | 20:33 |
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| sbalukoff | Again, I'd rather not block the ability to get useful work done in the mean time as we figure out some of the larger issues. | 20:33 |
| xgerman | +1 | 20:34 |
| sbalukoff | And to me that means it should be OK to merge specs that leave some things as "To be determined" | 20:34 |
| TrevorV_ | Least amount of ambiguity as the focus, eh? | 20:34 |
| sballe | sbalukoff: +1 | 20:34 |
| blogan | the spec not beign merged doesn't prevent anyone from working on the implementation, and the spec being merged doesn't mean it won't change | 20:34 |
| sbalukoff | TrevorV_: Yes | 20:34 |
| sbalukoff | blogan: +1 | 20:34 |
| blogan | so either way it shouldnt block | 20:35 |
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| sbalukoff | blogan: Nevertheless, I sense that there is a mental block there-- people are less likely to work earnestly on implementation when the spec isn't' merged yet. | 20:35 |
| blogan | oh i know, its the checklist mentality | 20:35 |
| sbalukoff | blogan: I agree, I'm just sharing my observation. | 20:35 |
| TrevorV_ | sbalukoff, I was dependent on a spec, an impl, and then another spec... didn't stop me ha ha ha | 20:35 |
| sbalukoff | Ok, the last status update I have is on the controller-- and we've already talked a little bit about that, and I think we all know this is up for a major discussion | 20:36 |
| sbalukoff | both prior to and at the hack-a-thon. | 20:36 |
| blogan | indeed | 20:36 |
| TrevorV_ | agreed | 20:36 |
| sballe | sbalukoff: I have time between now and the face 2 face to work on a spec. I like to volunteer to work on https://blueprints.launchpad.net/octavia/+spec/amphorae-scheduler spec. | 20:36 |
| sbalukoff | And again, I look forward to seeing something of a summary of the whiteboard discussions y'all at Rackspace have been having about this. :) | 20:36 |
| sbalukoff | sballe: Go for it! | 20:36 |
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| blogan | you sound like you really want details | 20:37 |
| sballe | I couldn;t assign it to myslef | 20:37 |
| sbalukoff | Ok, are there any other progress reports I'm forgetting about? | 20:37 |
| blogan | network driver spec | 20:37 |
| blogan | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/135495/ | 20:37 |
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| xgerman | sballe I think I can assign | 20:37 |
| sbalukoff | sballe: Aah, ok. | 20:37 |
| blogan | this is one that will definitely change as we get further along | 20:37 |
| sbalukoff | #action sbalukoff to assign https://blueprints.launchpad.net/octavia/+spec/amphorae-scheduler to sballe | 20:37 |
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| blogan | but i think it is generic enough now to suit our needs | 20:38 |
| sbalukoff | blogan: Agreed. | 20:38 |
| sbalukoff | So.... need reviews, right? | 20:38 |
| TrevorV_ | The more info we can hash out before the hackathon the better though, so eyes on that review would be great | 20:38 |
| blogan | no just 2 +2s and a +A | 20:38 |
| sbalukoff | TrevorV_: +1 | 20:38 |
| sballe | blogan: understood. I want to make sure we use the right technologies for the affinity/anit-affnity so I am talking to our nova guys on the best way forward, | 20:38 |
| TrevorV_ | I also have the review for the Operator API documentation that's still really lean. Any help there would be great | 20:38 |
| sballe | Please I wrote a lot of the slurm scheduler so I feel I should be at home here | 20:39 |
| sbalukoff | blogan: Ok, I'll have a look. | 20:39 |
| TrevorV_ | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/136499/ | 20:39 |
| xgerman | sballe it's yours | 20:39 |
| sballe | xgerman: thx | 20:39 |
| blogan | sballe: okay, that definitely affinity and anti-affinity definitely need attention | 20:39 |
| sbalukoff | TrevorV_: I will happily dole out more berating comments on that if you'd like. ;) | 20:39 |
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| TrevorV_ | sbalukoff, that'll be welcome for the most part :D | 20:40 |
| sbalukoff | Seriously, though, it's a good start. :D | 20:40 |
| TrevorV_ | I feel like I could have more description about stuff, and if anyone does want me to do a glossary or something, please let me know, because I may not have a full definition in mind when making it | 20:40 |
| sbalukoff | And yes, to the rest of y'all: Please do review TrevorV_'s spec! | 20:40 |
| TrevorV_ | So I'll have questions and such there too | 20:40 |
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| blogan | meeting TL;DR - all review everything! | 20:41 |
| * TrevorV_ working on reviewing all the things! | 20:41 | |
| sbalukoff | TrevorV_: We should discuss this afterward, but I do want to know if you're following a specific template in that. I followed a template I pulled out of my ass for the amphora API spec. | 20:41 |
| sbalukoff | blogan: Indeed! | 20:41 |
| sbalukoff | #action review all the things! | 20:41 |
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| sbalukoff | Ok! | 20:41 |
| TrevorV_ | sbalukoff, simple answer, I followed glance's API docs. Not intimately followed, but I used it as a starting point | 20:41 |
| sbalukoff | Ok. | 20:41 |
| blogan | we really need to look at JSONHome and JsonSchema for doc generation, per the apiwg | 20:42 |
| sbalukoff | I would like to see a little more detail than what you've got so far. ;) | 20:42 |
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| TrevorV_ | blogan, I might be able to spend some cycles on that | 20:42 |
| TrevorV_ | sbalukoff, Agreed | 20:42 |
| blogan | TrevorV_: go for it pelase | 20:42 |
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| sbalukoff | blogan: +1 | 20:42 |
| sbalukoff | Ok! | 20:42 |
| sbalukoff | jorgem: Did you have something you wanted added to the agenda, because the next thing on the list is open discussion | 20:43 |
| jorgem | Sure | 20:43 |
| jorgem | Just wanted to make sure we keep in mind versioning in Octavia | 20:43 |
| sbalukoff | #topic jorgem's agend item(s) | 20:43 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "jorgem's agend item(s) (Meeting topic: Octavia)" | 20:43 | |
| sbalukoff | #undo | 20:43 |
| openstack | Removing item from minutes: <ircmeeting.items.Topic object at 0x3db0e10> | 20:43 |
| jorgem | Not sure how it will fit in to Neutron as well as octavia | 20:43 |
| TrevorV_ | sbalukoff, action me for checking into JsonSchema/JSONHome | 20:43 |
| sbalukoff | #topic jorgem's agenda item(s) | 20:43 |
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| sballe | lol | 20:44 |
| sbalukoff | #action TrevorV_ to look into JSONSchema / JSONHome | 20:44 |
| xgerman | versioning = good | 20:44 |
| jorgem | It was brought up today and I'm not sure if it warrants a discussion | 20:44 |
| jorgem | API versioning is what I'm referring to to be explicit | 20:44 |
| blogan | we need to also look into what nova and neutron are donig with microversionig | 20:44 |
| blogan | ng | 20:44 |
| jorgem | But I'd like the ability to deprecate and run multiple API versions at the same time in order to transition customers | 20:44 |
| xgerman | blogan +1 | 20:44 |
| sbalukoff | jorgem: So the plan was to have this discussion on the operator api gerrit review, where it's already started | 20:44 |
| jorgem | sweet | 20:45 |
| sballe | and I am assuming the API group will come out with a best practice | 20:45 |
| xgerman | and we have the same operator requirement at HP | 20:45 |
| sballe | we should touch base with jay | 20:45 |
| sbalukoff | sballe: Sure, but let's not hold our breath there. | 20:45 |
| jorgem | Other things to worry about that are slightly related are migrations (up AND down) | 20:45 |
| blogan | which alembic does | 20:45 |
| jorgem | It is my understanding that most Openstack projects only migrate UP and not down | 20:45 |
| xgerman | well, I would be happy if UP worked flawlessly :-) | 20:45 |
| sbalukoff | Haha | 20:46 |
| blogan | well the migrations do have the ability to mgirate down | 20:46 |
| sballe | xgerman: +1 yeah no kidding! | 20:46 |
| TrevorV_ | xgerman, so far alembic seems to work flawlessly (knocks on wood) | 20:46 |
| jorgem | just want to make sure we keep those things in the back of our minds when having design discussions | 20:46 |
| sbalukoff | jorgem: It's my impression that a "down" migration only happens when there's a serious problem with a new version that isn't discovered until an upgrade is attempted. | 20:46 |
| jorgem | no need to go into details now | 20:46 |
| jorgem | :) | 20:46 |
| sbalukoff | But yes, our migrations should be able to go both ways. | 20:46 |
| jorgem | correct | 20:46 |
| * TrevorV_ chuckles at "go both ways" | 20:47 | |
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| sballe | when we say migration are we talking about update and rollback? | 20:47 |
| jorgem | yes | 20:47 |
| sbalukoff | jorgem: Do you want to update our HACKING.rst or constitution with those design principles. (The versioning one is already there, but we aren't explicit about DB migrations working.) | 20:47 |
| sbalukoff | ? | 20:47 |
| sbalukoff | That was a question. | 20:47 |
| blogan | in alembic you define upgrade() and downgrade() methods | 20:47 |
| jorgem | sbalukoff: sure | 20:47 |
| sballe | yeah if Octavia can do this it will be the only service in OpenStack taht can :-( But of course we are all workign towards OpenStack services being able to do this | 20:47 |
| sbalukoff | blogan: I think his point is that sometimes nobody thinks about downgrade() | 20:48 |
| xgerman | yep, and what do you dow ith data in the new tables? | 20:48 |
| xgerman | will bite you at the next upgrade | 20:48 |
| xgerman | ... | 20:48 |
| sbalukoff | Everytime your downgrade() doesn't work, god kills a kitten. | 20:48 |
| jorgem | for example FK contraints usually cause issues | 20:48 |
| sballe | sbalukoff: HP does. The issue is that the tools we use such as Heat to deploy aren't mature enought to do a rollback. | 20:48 |
| blogan | i have yet to see a migration that downgrade wasn't complete, however it is possible that it just couldn't be run due to other restrictions | 20:48 |
| jorgem | migrations are with code as well though | 20:48 |
| jorgem | not just DB albeit the DB is the one most people take into consideration | 20:49 |
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| jorgem | Requirement is seamleass upgrades and downgrades | 20:49 |
| xgerman | jorgem +1000 | 20:49 |
| blogan | i think thats when the microversioning comes into play | 20:49 |
| sbalukoff | Oh boy. | 20:49 |
| jorgem | sballe: We almost have that completed with our CLB product | 20:50 |
| jorgem | sbalukoff: *sorry | 20:50 |
| sbalukoff | blogan: Weren't you against microversioning APIs? | 20:50 |
| sbalukoff | Anyway... | 20:50 |
| jorgem | anyways, I'll update the HACKING.rst file | 20:50 |
| jorgem | sbalukoff: link? | 20:50 |
| sballe | Who will go and investigate microversioning and come back next week and explain it to the rest of us? | 20:50 |
| sbalukoff | #action jorgem to update Octavia constitution.rst or hacking.rst with principles around seamless upgrades / downgrades | 20:51 |
| blogan | sbalukoff: against it in the url | 20:51 |
| xgerman | or we invite jay as a guest speaker? | 20:51 |
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| sbalukoff | jorgem: It's in the root of the octavia repository | 20:51 |
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| jorgem | k thx | 20:51 |
| blogan | we definitely need to version, just not show minor/micro versions in the url | 20:51 |
| sbalukoff | jorgem: what you're describing is probably best in the constitution.rst file. | 20:51 |
| jorgem | k | 20:52 |
| sballe | jorgem: I do agree with this requirement and it will be nice when we have it | 20:52 |
| sbalukoff | blogan: Ok | 20:52 |
| sbalukoff | Ok! | 20:52 |
| sbalukoff | jorgem: Anything else right now? | 20:52 |
| jorgem | Just want to make sure we don't perform upgrades like it's 1999! | 20:52 |
| sbalukoff | Haha | 20:52 |
| sbalukoff | #topic Open Discussion | 20:52 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: Octavia)" | 20:52 | |
| jorgem | but I do want to party like it :) | 20:52 |
| sbalukoff | +1 | 20:52 |
| sbalukoff | Ok, folks, we've got 7 minutes left. What else do y'all want to discuss? | 20:53 |
| sbalukoff | TrevorV_: Wasn't there something you wanted to yell at me about? | 20:53 |
| TrevorV_ | no yelling | 20:54 |
| TrevorV_ | Just the management_network thing is getting to me | 20:54 |
| sbalukoff | Aaw! | 20:54 |
| blogan | just passive aggressive insults | 20:54 |
| * TrevorV_ isn't like blogan | 20:54 | |
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| dougwig | oh nuts, timezone | 20:54 |
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| sbalukoff | Ok. So that's likely to go beyond the 6 minutes we have left-- maybe we can do this in #openstack-lbaas afterward? | 20:54 |
| blogan | wtg dougwig | 20:54 |
| sbalukoff | dougwig: D'oh! | 20:54 |
| dougwig | sorry | 20:54 |
| TrevorV_ | sbalukoff, I suggested that already :P Sounds good, talk at you there | 20:54 |
| TrevorV_ | (or with, if you prefer ha ha) | 20:54 |
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| sbalukoff | Heh! | 20:55 |
| sbalukoff | Ok, folks... if there's nothing else right now, let's end this a few minutes early. | 20:55 |
| TrevorV_ | Alrighty, take it easy all! | 20:55 |
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| TrevorV_ | o/ | 20:55 |
| sbalukoff | Thanks y'all! | 20:55 |
| sballe | bye | 20:55 |
| sbalukoff | #endmeeting | 20:55 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 20:55 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Dec 3 20:55:58 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 20:56 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/octavia/2014/octavia.2014-12-03-20.00.html | 20:56 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/octavia/2014/octavia.2014-12-03-20.00.txt | 20:56 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/octavia/2014/octavia.2014-12-03-20.00.log.html | 20:56 |
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