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| * pcm_ lurking :) | 15:00 | |
| Swami | hi folks | 15:01 |
|---|---|---|
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| mrsmith | howdy | 15:01 |
| Swami | mrsmith: hi | 15:01 |
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| Swami | pcm_:hi | 15:01 |
| pcm_ | Swami: hi | 15:02 |
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| Swami | carl: ping | 15:02 |
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| Swami | carl: hi | 15:02 |
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| carl_baldwin | Swami: | 15:02 |
| carl_baldwin | hi | 15:02 |
| Swami | #startmeeting distributed_virtual_router | 15:03 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Apr 30 15:03:06 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is Swami. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 15:03 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 15:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: distributed_virtual_router)" | 15:03 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'distributed_virtual_router' | 15:03 |
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| Swami | #topic agenda | 15:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "agenda (Meeting topic: distributed_virtual_router)" | 15:03 | |
| Swami | DVR progress update | 15:03 |
| Swami | Blueprint Update | 15:04 |
| Swami | Altanta Summit Prep | 15:04 |
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| Swami | #Open Discussion | 15:05 |
| Swami | #topic DVR Progress Update | 15:05 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "DVR Progress Update (Meeting topic: distributed_virtual_router)" | 15:05 | |
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| Swami | DVR developmenet is currently progressing well. We are finishing up some fixes on the FIP side and some corner case testing on the East-West. | 15:06 |
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| Swami | We will be working on the Service node SNAT for the next couple of weeks. | 15:06 |
| mrsmith | Swami: initial centralized SNAT support is done as well | 15:06 |
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| mrsmith | rule changes are only what is left | 15:07 |
| Swami | mrsmith: Thanks for the update. | 15:07 |
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| mrsmith | as well as some plugin support | 15:07 |
| mrsmith | for centralized SNAT | 15:07 |
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| Swami | #topic L3 Agent Update | 15:07 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "L3 Agent Update (Meeting topic: distributed_virtual_router)" | 15:07 | |
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| Swami | mrsmith: can you give an update on the L3 Agent | 15:08 |
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| mrsmith | Swami: sure - as we just mentioned, FIP refactor with icehouse-2 got done | 15:08 |
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| mrsmith | SNAT work is going well, just need additonal rules to be put in place on the agent | 15:08 |
| mrsmith | SNAT namespace, gateway port plug, etc are done | 15:09 |
| Swami | mrsmith: good great progress. | 15:09 |
| mrsmith | some plugin work is still needed | 15:10 |
| mrsmith | SNAT scheduling, subnet-add/delete | 15:10 |
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| Swami | Do you have any other questions or issues that you wanted to discuss with the sub-team | 15:11 |
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| mrsmith | not at this time | 15:12 |
| Swami | mrsmith: Thanks | 15:12 |
| Swami | I have one question for the sub-team. | 15:12 |
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| Swami | Today we are distributing the Floating IP namespace to the compute nodes. So Floating IPs are basically associated with the VM's private IP and also kind of associated with the host they are located on. | 15:14 |
| Swami | Do we need to store the "host" information in the FIP table going forward. For now we are retrieving it from the portbinding table and using it. | 15:14 |
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| viveknarasimhan | swami | 15:16 |
| Swami | carl_baldwin: Do you have any thoughts on this. | 15:16 |
| Swami | viveknarasimhan: hi | 15:16 |
| carl_baldwin | Swami: Sorry, I have been pulled in to another meeting. Let me read back. | 15:17 |
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| Swami | carl_baldwin: no problem, take you time to read it and let me know your thoughts. | 15:18 |
| carl_baldwin | Swami: Is there a performance benefit to storing the host with the fip? | 15:18 |
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| carl_baldwin | Swami: My initial impression is that we should avoid duplicating the information since it is already available with the port binding table. | 15:19 |
| Swami | If we have it in the table we can retrieve it directly from one table otherwise it is two table query rather than a single one. | 15:19 |
| carl_baldwin | A table join? | 15:20 |
| Swami | carl_baldwin: You are right. That was my initial thought too. Since it is already available we should not duplicate the information. | 15:20 |
| Swami | But just wanted to get the feedback on this. | 15:20 |
| Swami | That's how we have implemented right now. | 15:20 |
| carl_baldwin | Great, I think it should be left as a join query and maybe keep an eye on the performance of the query before trying to optimize. | 15:21 |
| Swami | carl_baldwin: thanks | 15:21 |
| Swami | #topic L2 Agent | 15:21 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "L2 Agent (Meeting topic: distributed_virtual_router)" | 15:21 | |
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| Swami | Vivek: can you update on the L2 Agent status | 15:22 |
| viveknarasimhan | i completed all review comments | 15:22 |
| viveknarasimhan | of upstream | 15:22 |
| viveknarasimhan | i have to link the dependencies of L3 Plugin, L3 scheduler and Sylvains's L2-Pop learning disabling | 15:22 |
| viveknarasimhan | and then post next patch set | 15:22 |
| Swami | vivek: If you have any issues with adding the dependencies let me know and i can help you out. | 15:23 |
| viveknarasimhan | sure | 15:23 |
| Swami | viveknarasimhan: Thanks for your input. Great progress. | 15:24 |
| Swami | #topic blueprint | 15:24 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "blueprint (Meeting topic: distributed_virtual_router)" | 15:24 | |
| viveknarasimhan | thanks | 15:24 |
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| Swami | I have added the DVR blueprint to the neutron-specs | 15:25 |
| Swami | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/89934/4 | 15:25 |
| Swami | carl: I had an issue with the topic not showing up right in the "neutron-specs". | 15:25 |
| Swami | I am not sure what was the problem. The topic in my branch shows the right topic "bp/neutron-ovs-dvr", but when I push the file, I could only see "bp/specs" | 15:26 |
| carl_baldwin | With the new gerrit, you can actually edit the topic right on the review page. | 15:27 |
| Swami | ok, then I will follow that. | 15:27 |
| carl_baldwin | To the right of the topic on the web page, there is a little notepad button that you can use to edit it. | 15:27 |
| Swami | carl_baldwin: thanks that helps. | 15:28 |
| carl_baldwin | It is a minor issue but using the same topic makes searching for DVR reviews very easy. :) | 15:28 |
| Swami | #topic Atlanta Neutron Design summit | 15:29 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Atlanta Neutron Design summit (Meeting topic: distributed_virtual_router)" | 15:29 | |
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| Swami | As you all know the Neutron Design summit schedule has been finalized. | 15:29 |
| Swami | We will be having our DVR Progress Update on Wednesday at 5.20p.m | 15:30 |
| viveknarasimhan | yes | 15:30 |
| carl_baldwin | Looking forward to it! | 15:30 |
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| Swami | The topics that I wanted to discuss for the DVR would be " Current Work in Progress Update, DVR Service Node HA, Distributed DHCP and Service Node VPN | 15:31 |
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| Swami | Folks please feel free to add any item that need to discussed as part of the Distributed Virtual Router session. | 15:32 |
| viveknarasimhan | i may want to add | 15:33 |
| viveknarasimhan | dvr port binding | 15:33 |
| Swami | There is an Etherpad for the DVR project that we created and you can add your information to that page. | 15:33 |
| Swami | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/Distributed-Virtual-Router | 15:33 |
| viveknarasimhan | and get feedback on the approach we took to handle replicated ports of DVR in L2 | 15:33 |
| viveknarasimhan | ok i will add it there | 15:33 |
| Swami | viveknarasimhan: Sure go ahead and edit the Etherpad page. Add your topics at the top, so that we can go through it. | 15:34 |
| viveknarasimhan | ok will do | 15:34 |
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| carl_baldwin | Swami: I have a session called pluggable external network which relates to DVR a bit. | 15:35 |
| carl_baldwin | It is aimed partly at addressing the public IP address consumption by compute nodes with DVR. | 15:35 |
| Swami | Carl_Baldwin: I saw that your "private_net" for public ip consumption discussion is part of Artems session, but still as I mentioned to you I will mention that to get rid of the public ip address consumption we can use the patch provided by your blueprint. | 15:35 |
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| carl_baldwin | Sounds good. | 15:36 |
| Swami | carl_baldwin: Just mentioned your blueprint. | 15:36 |
| carl_baldwin | Cool. | 15:37 |
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| Swami | Is there any other topics that we wanted to discuss with the broader audience, If so please go ahead and update the Etherpad page. | 15:37 |
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| viveknarasimhan | I may also discuss the mutliple gateway | 15:38 |
| Swami | #topic Open Discussion | 15:38 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: distributed_virtual_router)" | 15:38 | |
| viveknarasimhan | for the same DVR on the same subnet issue | 15:38 |
| viveknarasimhan | and propose the way we plan to handle it and get feedback on the same | 15:39 |
| viveknarasimhan | if time permits only :) | 15:39 |
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| Swami | viveknarasimhan: Hopefully you will covering it in the L2 Agent update of the DVR. | 15:39 |
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| viveknarasimhan | sure | 15:40 |
| viveknarasimhan | will cover it there | 15:40 |
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| Swami | vivek: Thanks as I mentioned go ahead and add the topic discussion to the Etherpad and we can discuss it before the summit. We still have another week. | 15:40 |
| viveknarasimhan | will do | 15:40 |
| Swami | Any one else have any item for Open discussion with the sub team | 15:41 |
| Swami | mrsmith: Do you have any open issues? | 15:41 |
| mrsmith | not at this point | 15:42 |
| Swami | If there are no other topics to discuss, I would like to end the session. | 15:42 |
| Swami | Next week we kind of do a dry run for the Atlanta design summit with our topics. | 15:43 |
| Swami | Hope this helps. | 15:43 |
| Swami | The DVR WIP code is up for review and we are addressing the reviews. | 15:44 |
| Swami | #link https://review.openstack.org/#q,topic:bp/neutron-ovs-dvr,n,z | 15:44 |
| Swami | Thanks for your time. | 15:44 |
| Swami | See you all next week. | 15:44 |
| Swami | #endmeeting | 15:45 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "(Meeting topic: training-manuals)" | 15:45 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Apr 30 15:45:08 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 15:45 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/distributed_virtual_router/2014/distributed_virtual_router.2014-04-30-15.03.html | 15:45 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/distributed_virtual_router/2014/distributed_virtual_router.2014-04-30-15.03.txt | 15:45 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/distributed_virtual_router/2014/distributed_virtual_router.2014-04-30-15.03.log.html | 15:45 |
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| banix | Today's ML2 sub-team meeting is cancelled. | 16:02 |
| banix | irenab: hi | 16:03 |
| irenab | banix:hi | 16:03 |
| irenab | so no meeting today? | 16:03 |
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| banix | irenab: no meeting. Bob canceled. I have a request from you though | 16:03 |
| irenab | banix: ok | 16:04 |
| irenab | how can I help? | 16:04 |
| banix | could you have a look at this wiki I am putting together at your convenience and see if the mlns colum can be filled: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Neutron/ModularL2Agent | 16:04 |
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| banix | irenab: ^^^ | 16:04 |
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| irenab | banix: sure, will do it till Friday. Is it ok? | 16:05 |
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| banix | irenab: trying to gather more info on mechanism drivers including the one by mlnx. | 16:05 |
| banix | irenab: yes that would be great. thank you. | 16:05 |
| irenab | banix: would like to help, there is also another mech. driver I will add for SR-IOV for Juno | 16:06 |
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| irenab | banix: this one will also have agent. | 16:07 |
| irenab | I'll fill all the details | 16:07 |
| banix | irenab: please update the wiki as you see fit (add a new column, etc.) and we can discuss by email as well | 16:07 |
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| banix | irenab: still at early stages but your help is much appreciated | 16:07 |
| irenab | banix: great, if have questions will ping or IRC or send email | 16:08 |
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| banix | irenab: great. thx. | 16:08 |
| irenab | banix: need to go, bye | 16:08 |
| banix | irenab: bye | 16:08 |
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| imsplitbit | o/ | 18:02 |
| grapex | o/ | 18:02 |
| cp16net | whos on first? | 18:02 |
| mat-lowery | o/ | 18:02 |
| SlickNik | #startmeeting trove | 18:02 |
| imsplitbit | go go go | 18:02 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Apr 30 18:02:34 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is SlickNik. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 18:02 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 18:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: trove)" | 18:02 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'trove' | 18:02 |
| robertmyers | o/ | 18:02 |
| imsplitbit | ok we need to beat 16 minutes | 18:02 |
| grapex | o/ | 18:02 |
| amrith | o/ | 18:02 |
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| mat-lowery | o/ | 18:02 |
| iccha | o/ | 18:02 |
| konetzed | woot woot | 18:02 |
| kevinconway | o/ | 18:02 |
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| pdmars | o/ | 18:02 |
| SlickNik | Agenda: | 18:02 |
| SlickNik | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/TroveMeeting | 18:02 |
| amytron | o/ | 18:03 |
| abramley | o/ | 18:03 |
| cweid | o/ | 18:03 |
| annashen | o/ | 18:03 |
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| cp16net | |o| | 18:03 |
| cweid | Hello everyone. | 18:03 |
| konetzed | \o | 18:03 |
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| esp | o/ | 18:03 |
| cp16net | gooooool | 18:03 |
| glucas | |-o-| | 18:03 |
| hub_cap | good day all, im here and happy to be here | 18:03 |
| esp | cp16net: lol | 18:03 |
| hub_cap | i refuse to make ascii art of myself | 18:03 |
| robertmyers | cp16net: wheres the a? | 18:03 |
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| hub_cap | but i am, in fact, a part of this meeting | 18:03 |
| esmute | 0/ | 18:03 |
| hub_cap | you can tell by the text im submitting to this channel | 18:04 |
| SlickNik | Alright, let's get started. | 18:04 |
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| SlickNik | #topic Establish policy for disk image builder elements for datastores | 18:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Establish policy for disk image builder elements for datastores (Meeting topic: trove)" | 18:04 | |
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| juice | o/ | 18:04 |
| mat-lowery | My colleages have submitted a couple of Gerrit changes (https://review.openstack.org/77461 and https://review.openstack.org/79413) that have been -1ed because they lack Fedora diskimage-builder (DIB) elements. | 18:04 |
| amcrn | o/ | 18:04 |
| mat-lowery | Goal: Establish a policy regarding Gerrit changes that add a DIB element. | 18:04 |
| glucas | has anyone seen hub_cap? Is he here? :-) | 18:04 |
| hub_cap | ;) | 18:04 |
| vgnbkr | o/ | 18:05 |
| mat-lowery | Other items to consider are here: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/TroveMeeting#Agenda_for_Apr._30 | 18:05 |
| peterstac | \o | 18:05 |
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| mat-lowery | I'm all for Fedora and Ubuntu parity. But parity can come piecemeal (as it does for the datastore managers). | 18:05 |
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| mat-lowery | The dangers in requiring parity up-front include: higher potential of Abandonment, potential reduced quality of the "other" DIB element, lack of testing on Fedora at all... | 18:06 |
| mat-lowery | Obviously I'm biased but the point is to just establish a policy whatever that may be. | 18:06 |
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| vgnbkr | I think I started the fedora issues. I think testing fedora might be onerous, but I think that fedora elements should always be added, and if they're not tested should just throw an error. | 18:06 |
| amcrn | given that we don’t enforce supporting a new feature across all datastores at once, it makes sense that we don’t enforce support of a datastore across all distros at first-go. | 18:06 |
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| robertmyers | amcrn: +1 | 18:06 |
| vgnbkr | (with a suitable message) | 18:07 |
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| grapex | amcrn: +1 | 18:07 |
| kevinconway | is the conversation about supporting datastores on multiple distros or simply being able to kick-start them in a test/development environment | 18:07 |
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| amcrn | kevinconway: former | 18:07 |
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| robertmyers | plus if they are not available or don't work wouldn't you use the distro that did? | 18:07 |
| SlickNik | So, as a user here, in that case how do I know what's the state of support for a particular datastore for a particular distro? | 18:08 |
| amrith | at the risk of dragging up the "support matrix", does it now mean that we need to make one that includes both datastore and guest OS? | 18:08 |
| amcrn | SlickNik: as the datastore-version story matures, the feature matrix can indicate such things | 18:08 |
| kevinconway | SlickNik: does trove have official support for all or any distros other than ubuntu 12? | 18:08 |
| vgnbkr | For me, the issue is that when someone goes to test something on fedora, the state should be obvious. They shouldn't have to go tracking down why something that works on ubuntu doesn't work on fedora. | 18:08 |
| juice | I haven't used Fedora but can someone give me an example of something that works on ubuntu but not fedora | 18:09 |
| robertmyers | but isn't this just for the DIB? | 18:09 |
| robertmyers | if you want to deploy you should build your own images | 18:09 |
| SlickNik | kevinconway: I think as an OpenStack project we need to support both Fedora as well as Ubuntu. | 18:09 |
| vgnbkr | Right now, I don't know if anything works on fedora, at least not F20. | 18:10 |
| mat-lowery | In case you didn't check out the meeting agenda: Cassandra and Couchbase are merged and do not have Fedora DIB elements. | 18:10 |
| vgnbkr | It never gets testes AFAIK. | 18:10 |
| esmute | what does this mean when it comes to gating? will we run the tests on both distro? | 18:10 |
| SlickNik | So let's constrain the scope of this discussion to just the DiB elements for now. | 18:10 |
| juice | maybe we can address each step of the process separately to keep this from turning into a tornado | 18:11 |
| kevinconway | so the only difference between the DIB for ubuntu and fedora is apt vs yum right? is there more to this? | 18:11 |
| SlickNik | I'm going to take an action item upon myself to check what other OpenStack projects do when it comes to testing on multiple distros (ubuntu / fedora in particular) | 18:11 |
| vgnbkr | Yes, there are some small system differences. | 18:11 |
| SlickNik | kevinconway: also upstart vs systemd, there might be more... | 18:12 |
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| juice | so what is the success critteria of building a disk image? | 18:12 |
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| amcrn | +1 juice and SlickNik. the very targeted question at the moment is: right *now*, does the introduction of a new datastore-version (and/or datastore) require adding dib-elements for both ubuntu and fedora in one-shot | 18:12 |
| juice | amcrn: I would say adding a new datastore only requires it to work with ubuntu | 18:12 |
| juice | or ubuntu only | 18:13 |
| vgnbkr | Then why have fedora at all? | 18:13 |
| cp16net | i think it makes sense to piecemeal the dibs but make sure it works for ubuntu | 18:13 |
| SnowDust | amcrn: :-) that depends on the datastore's binary packages and its distro-support | 18:13 |
| cp16net | because ubuntu is the test bed | 18:13 |
| juice | vgnbkr: I would see fedora as "optional" at this point | 18:13 |
| vgnbkr | then why don't we just take fedora support out until we're ready to deal with it properly? | 18:13 |
| juice | vgnbkr: because we may have support for SOME data stores on fedora | 18:14 |
| SnowDust | juice : optional means .. not officially supported indirectly ? | 18:14 |
| juice | so the matrix is datastore/distro | 18:14 |
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| amcrn | vgnbkr: that's akin to saying: let's take out backups because they're not supported for all datastores. it's up to the stakeholders that care about a particular feature and/or distro to further their own interests. | 18:14 |
| juice | every datastore should have a check in the ubunto distro column | 18:14 |
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| kevinconway | we keep saying support fedora vs support ubuntu. isn't this only about kick-starting in a dev environment? | 18:15 |
| amcrn | kevinconway: no | 18:15 |
| iccha | i think this is an openstack policy question, and maybe should be discussed at project meeting | 18:15 |
| kevinconway | this isn't to say that missing DIBs from trove-integration prevent a deploy of a datastore | 18:15 |
| vgnbkr | amcrn: that's different - it is expected that the stake holder will fix it. In this case, who is the stakeholder for fedora? | 18:15 |
| peterstac | I think we should at least be consistent across datastores: if datastore_a/v1 supports both then datastore_a/v2 should too | 18:15 |
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| amcrn | kevinconway: the problem right now is we're getting reviews -1'd because dibs don't exist for fedora, and are only being introduced for ubuntu | 18:16 |
| juice | amcrn: that is a problem | 18:16 |
| amcrn | vgnbkr: whoever wants to deploy on fedora | 18:16 |
| kevinconway | amcrn: right, but that's not supporting a distro. that's setting up a dev environment | 18:16 |
| grapex | amcrn: Yeah- we need to stop that | 18:16 |
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| juice | kevinconway: is your question, what does "support" mean...officially? | 18:17 |
| amcrn | we have quorum then, yes? no -1'ing a ubuntu-only dib-element introduction. | 18:17 |
| juice | what guarantees do we offer on this software? it passed the gate? | 18:17 |
| juice | amcrn: we can vote on that | 18:17 |
| SlickNik | Okay, let me propose a plan of action. | 18:17 |
| vgnbkr | amcrn: So all I'm suggesting is that when a change is made to ubuntu, if the corresponding fedora elements aren't updated/created, there be a placeholder to indicate that that element is not supported. | 18:17 |
| hub_cap | i think we should consult the mordred 's of the world too | 18:18 |
| hub_cap | im not sure what our "requirements" here are | 18:18 |
| SlickNik | I'll check with the other OpenStack folks about this. | 18:18 |
| grapex | SlickNik: Is the plan to test / gate all datastore managers and versions against both Ubuntu and Fedora? | 18:18 |
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| SlickNik | I'm not 100% sure what the official openstack position is regarding asymmetric support across distros. | 18:18 |
| grapex | I can't see a surefire way we can know if the corresponding fedora elements are updated or created if we don't | 18:19 |
| kevinconway | SlickNik: you are now responsible for all decisions made in openstack up to the point you became PTL | 18:19 |
| SlickNik | kevinconway: That's so comforting to know. :) | 18:19 |
| amcrn | SlickNik: i'm not sure why the answer to that question should prohibit inflight reviews, considering if the answer is "it should be asymmetric" we're already wayyyyyy out of compliance | 18:19 |
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| grapex | amcrn: Agreed. | 18:19 |
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| SlickNik | amcrn: Because it dictates whether our priority should be to drag us back into compliance vs. to add more datastores getting us further away. | 18:20 |
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| grapex | Trove already is going to have a ton of datastores, which means a ton of testing. Regardless of OpenStack's take, my guess is we will not be able to gate on testing for every single datastore and version for every distro. | 18:21 |
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| juice | grapex: the number of permutations would be quite high at this point | 18:22 |
| robertmyers | maybe we should get datastores to work in general | 18:22 |
| grapex | robermyers: +1 | 18:22 |
| SnowDust | grapex: testing till today is for trove functionality .. not for distro support ... and you are right that way | 18:22 |
| robertmyers | cause it sucks trying to use more than one | 18:22 |
| mat-lowery | Stupid question: This code runs on the guest...one level up from OpenStack "proper" which is what keeps getting referenced as the standard for being symmetric. Is it a fair comparison? | 18:22 |
| SlickNik | grapex: We should have the stakeholders who are interested in adding the datastores to Trove, also do the testing using some sort of 3rd party infra. | 18:23 |
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| amrith | time-check | 18:23 |
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| amcrn | SlickNik grapex: the problem is, if it's made this difficult to support other versions, the amount of inflow of public code will dry up. | 18:23 |
| grapex | mat-lowery: Good point | 18:23 |
| grapex | maybe just test the guest on those distros | 18:24 |
| mordred | hub_cap: what did I do? | 18:24 |
| hub_cap | what didnt u do :) | 18:24 |
| * mordred throws wet cat at hub_Cap | 18:24 | |
| hub_cap | mordred: we install datastores, do we have to, by default, make sure that we support fedora and ubuntu for all datastores? | 18:25 |
| grapex | amcrn: Right- which is why I don't think we should gate on all the permeatations introduced by testing Fedora on every single datastore | 18:25 |
| hub_cap | ^ ^ we an talk after w/ SlickNik, mordred | 18:25 |
| hub_cap | and mordred, i do wash my cat, ask imsplitbit | 18:25 |
| SnowDust | grapex: means there will be multiple test runs .. following instance create .. for each distro ? | 18:25 |
| SlickNik | mordred: Support for a few new datastores are being added to Trove, and we're discussing whether there is a cross OpenStack requirement to support a Fedora guest as well as an ubuntu guest. | 18:25 |
| amcrn | grapex: agreed. | 18:25 |
| mordred | hub_cap: not really | 18:26 |
| hub_cap | ^ ^ decree | 18:26 |
| mordred | hub_cap: right now the policy is "dev targets latest ubuntu/fedora but may not do anything that prevents running on latest LTS or RHEL" | 18:26 |
| mordred | we don't gate on fedora anywhere in the system at the moment, because fedora and ubuntu have the same python | 18:27 |
| mordred | NOW | 18:27 |
| hub_cap | ok but if we are all runnin ubuntu, we wait for someone to care about fedora? | 18:27 |
| mordred | yup | 18:27 |
| mordred | if you guys do a C-based agent | 18:27 |
| grapex | mordred: I like it | 18:27 |
| hub_cap | LOL | 18:27 |
| grapex | mordred: This sounds theoretical.... | 18:27 |
| mordred | we probably want to escalate making sure it works on fedora | 18:27 |
| mordred | just saying | 18:27 |
| amcrn | lol | 18:27 |
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| grapex | mordred: But C is hard | 18:28 |
| cweid | Also not enterprise webscale. | 18:28 |
| grapex | IIRC you have to do bit twiddling extensively just to print a hello world. | 18:28 |
| robertmyers | grapex: python3? | 18:28 |
| SlickNik | Okay, time check. | 18:28 |
| atomic77 | looks like i am going to start doing more testing against ubuntu for my stuff :) | 18:28 |
| hub_cap | heh atomic77 :P | 18:29 |
| grapex | robertmyers: Good point- we at some point may want to test in Python 3 if the guest will be running on it and some canonical capacity | 18:29 |
| amcrn | can we move on to the sub-item of discussing the use of PPAs? | 18:29 |
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| cweid | Sure | 18:29 |
| mat-lowery | I'm not sure where we landed here. | 18:29 |
| SlickNik | #startvote What should we do to ubuntu-only dib element patchsets. +1, -1, figure_out_requirements | 18:30 |
| openstack | Unable to parse vote topic and options. | 18:30 |
| SlickNik | lol | 18:30 |
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| SlickNik | Let's table this for now. | 18:30 |
| SlickNik | mat-lowery: Let's move on to the next sub-item | 18:30 |
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| mat-lowery | ok. This is SlickNik's silent scope creep on my agenda item. :) | 18:30 |
| mat-lowery | Do we have a policy on how the bits are laid down? | 18:31 |
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| mat-lowery | Package Install vs. Tarball Install vs. Source Install | 18:31 |
| cweid | I think it would be what is avail for the datastore? | 18:31 |
| juice | mat-lowery: is this for trove packages only? | 18:31 |
| juice | or for dependencies as well | 18:31 |
| SlickNik | juice: This is for the datastore. | 18:31 |
| juice | trove-guest only then.. | 18:32 |
| mordred | cweid: wait- hang on. I want to go back to "c is not webscale" | 18:32 |
| cweid | enterprise webscale. | 18:32 |
| juice | ...as part of the reference guest install process | 18:32 |
| mat-lowery | juice: As it was conceived, just the datastore. mysql-server deb | 18:33 |
| SlickNik | I think at some point we decided that we would use official distro packages. | 18:33 |
| hub_cap | mordred: dont feed the trolls :) | 18:33 |
| amcrn | SlickNik: we did? ;) | 18:33 |
| SlickNik | But the issue is that for some of these new datastores, no official distro packages exist. | 18:33 |
| vipul | i beleive we've stuck to package install with official supported versions from vendors | 18:33 |
| cweid | That's not true | 18:34 |
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| hub_cap | i dont think redis is a pkg | 18:34 |
| hub_cap | is it? | 18:34 |
| mat-lowery | There is currently a PPA-based, merged DIB: Redis on Ubuntu. | 18:34 |
| cweid | I use some random PPA to install redis | 18:34 |
| SlickNik | amcrn: I'm using "decided" loosely here. There was no official decision. | 18:34 |
| hub_cap | so to sound like a broken record | 18:34 |
| mordred | fwiw - OpenStack has no official policy on this - other than that _We_ do not make packages | 18:34 |
| hub_cap | this is development, not production :) | 18:34 |
| cweid | hub_cap: +1 | 18:34 |
| hub_cap | ymmv for installing production | 18:34 |
| amrith | as an extension of earlier conversatiion, wouldn't the answer be that the one(s) concerned about that datastore will pick the packages that must be installed? | 18:35 |
| hub_cap | we should find _a way_ to run the version we advert we run | 18:35 |
| hub_cap | but again, if you are running some ppa in production, thats on you, if, say, it goes down or something else happens | 18:35 |
| amcrn | hub_cap: the problem lies in what is actually *supported* via the managers | 18:36 |
| amcrn | god knows if that random ppa diverges from the official package, etc. | 18:36 |
| vipul | our goal should be that installers can use upstream DIBs to do a produciton install.. | 18:36 |
| atomic77 | for more "experimental" data stores (cough) obviously we would not a policy that states that packages must come from the official repos | 18:36 |
| hub_cap | sure amcrn and i think we need to find _a way_ to install our version we support | 18:36 |
| vipul | if we need to do something special for development.. fine.. but make that param driven in the DIB | 18:36 |
| hub_cap | atomic77: yea i dont think we _have_ to come from the official repos | 18:36 |
| hub_cap | amcrn: i think we should do our best to pick a ppa that doesnt rewrite a datastore functionality | 18:37 |
| amcrn | how is it possible to even certify that scientifically? | 18:37 |
| amcrn | other than "looks like it" | 18:37 |
| atomic77 | but maybe it makes sense to simply warn when a data store is not using official packages | 18:37 |
| hub_cap | amcrn: well, our other option is to build everything from source :) | 18:37 |
| atomic77 | and the user ideally knows what they are doing | 18:37 |
| amcrn | i'm 100% against a ppa-based install unless the author of the ppa is the actual maintainer of the project | 18:37 |
| SlickNik | Okay. I think the general consensus that that it's okay for our dib _dev_ elements to pick up a PPA, but we need to make it aptly clear what PPA's packages our manages are _actually_ tested against. | 18:38 |
| atomic77 | +1 amcrn that makes sense | 18:38 |
| hub_cap | other options are that we (amcrn) creates a ppa for all pkgs | 18:38 |
| hub_cap | or we just build from scratch in the dib element ;) | 18:38 |
| SlickNik | Boy do I love those options. :) | 18:38 |
| amcrn | and we're no closer to figuring out what is mergeable | 18:39 |
| hub_cap | fwiw, i totally think a ppa is fine, and if we find a ppa that does what amcrn is thinking, im sure itll become a bug in our system | 18:39 |
| hub_cap | and we can fix it _when_ it happens | 18:39 |
| hub_cap | ;) | 18:39 |
| hub_cap | https://launchpad.net/~ondrej/+archive/mysql-5.6 | 18:40 |
| cweid | I mean we can't just maintain packages for N number od databases | 18:40 |
| cweid | https://launchpad.net/~rwky/+archive/redis | 18:40 |
| vgnbkr | Or have datastore versions be tied to package source, i.e., mysql-5.5-cononical | 18:40 |
| hub_cap | we could use that tomorrow heh | 18:40 |
| SlickNik | Okay, time-check. | 18:40 |
| hub_cap | vgnbkr: but then we have to build that, right? | 18:40 |
| hub_cap | yea this sounds like a good bargument at openstack summit | 18:40 |
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| vgnbkr | hub_cap: no, I'm saying it's a defined source for that datastore version, so it's OK to get it from the defined source. | 18:41 |
| hub_cap | ugh maybe we should do this | 18:41 |
| hub_cap | 1) stop installs, and force upgrades to be a "deploy to new image" | 18:41 |
| vgnbkr | So we would have mysql-5.5-canonical, mysql-5.5-oracle, mysql-5.5-percona, etc. | 18:42 |
| hub_cap | sorry taht was #2 | 18:42 |
| hub_cap | if we say "you must provide your version in the image" then we dont have the issue of using apt/blah/blah at _all_ | 18:42 |
| hub_cap | and for development we can do whatevs | 18:42 |
| hub_cap | but we can remove all of the install logic / apt/rpm logic from the code | 18:42 |
| robertmyers | hub_cap: +1 | 18:42 |
| hub_cap | and migrations / upgrades are new instances / migrations | 18:43 |
| hub_cap | err upgrades are new instances/migrations | 18:43 |
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| SlickNik | Okay, trying to reign this one in. | 18:43 |
| * hub_cap puts down his wrench | 18:43 | |
| vgnbkr | How does that solve the problem of knowing which versions of DB x work with the guestagent code? | 18:43 |
| amcrn | hub_cap: i agree with you, that still doesn't answer the question of: what is merge'able as a dib-element. can it be a ppa? can it be a long-winded 500 line shell script? | 18:43 |
| hub_cap | amcrn: build from source ;) | 18:44 |
| hub_cap | then it wont matter tho honestly | 18:44 |
| hub_cap | a ppa would be fine, and if it diverges, we will find out when we get a bug listing | 18:44 |
| hub_cap | honeslty even w/o my wrench that would work | 18:44 |
| juice | amcrn: I don't understand the issue - as long as it is consistently retrievable and something we have tested against why does it matter | 18:44 |
| cweid | juice: +100 | 18:45 |
| cweid | Also | 18:45 |
| grapex | juice: +1 | 18:45 |
| juice | I guess it would have to be universally retrievable - i.e. on the internet | 18:45 |
| cweid | we might want to just treat this on a case by case basis | 18:45 |
| hub_cap | otherwise we can build em ourselves | 18:45 |
| cweid | hub_cap: -100 | 18:45 |
| hub_cap | and stick em up in lp | 18:45 |
| mat-lowery | juice: The manager is tied to the bits on disk. There has to be some somewhat standard place to look for the binaries, etc. | 18:45 |
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| amcrn | juice: just got a phone call, sory | 18:46 |
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| SlickNik | Okay for mergeability: | 18:46 |
| SlickNik | #startvote Allow PPAs in DIB elements? yes, yes_but_only_if_project_official, no | 18:46 |
| openstack | Begin voting on: Allow PPAs in DIB elements? Valid vote options are yes, yes_but_only_if_project_official, no. | 18:46 |
| openstack | Vote using '#vote OPTION'. Only your last vote counts. | 18:46 |
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| mat-lowery | #vote no | 18:47 |
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| grapex | #vote yes | 18:47 |
| cweid | #vote yes | 18:47 |
| imsplitbit | #vote yes | 18:47 |
| konetzed | #vote yes | 18:47 |
| robertmyers | #vote yes | 18:47 |
| rueb7363 | #vote yes | 18:47 |
| atomic77 | #vote yes | 18:47 |
| SlickNik | #vote yes_but_only_if_project_official | 18:47 |
| juice | #yes_but_only_if_project_official | 18:47 |
| mat-lowery | #vote yes_but_only_if_project_official | 18:47 |
| imsplitbit | I don't get that? | 18:47 |
| juice | shoot | 18:47 |
| cweid | What makes it official? | 18:47 |
| juice | #vote yes_but_only_if_project_official | 18:47 |
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| imsplitbit | who makes it official? | 18:48 |
| SlickNik | cweid: the PPA is by a project maintainer | 18:48 |
| cweid | What is there is not one? | 18:48 |
| juice | cweid: I would say that we have gate test around it but that is seriously limited | 18:48 |
| cweid | and no debs | 18:48 |
| amrith | #vote no | 18:48 |
| grapex | SlickNik: A maintainer of the datastore? | 18:48 |
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| SlickNik | grapex: yes | 18:48 |
| SlickNik | #showvote | 18:48 |
| openstack | yes (7): robertmyers, konetzed, grapex, imsplitbit, cweid, rueb7363, atomic77 | 18:48 |
| openstack | yes_but_only_if_project_official (3): mat-lowery, SlickNik, juice | 18:48 |
| openstack | no (1): amrith | 18:48 |
| juice | looks like yes_but_only_if_project_official won ;) | 18:49 |
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| SlickNik | #endvote | 18:49 |
| openstack | Voted on "Allow PPAs in DIB elements?" Results are | 18:49 |
| openstack | yes (7): robertmyers, konetzed, grapex, imsplitbit, cweid, rueb7363, atomic77 | 18:49 |
| openstack | yes_but_only_if_project_official (3): mat-lowery, SlickNik, juice | 18:49 |
| openstack | no (1): amrith | 18:49 |
| mat-lowery | Given this vote, can we at least state that PPAs should not be the first choice? | 18:49 |
| hub_cap | oops i missed the vote | 18:49 |
| juice | that was weird | 18:49 |
| hub_cap | official repos sohuld always be first | 18:49 |
| * amrith different | 18:49 | |
| cweid | totally | 18:49 |
| hub_cap | then rando dude ppa | 18:49 |
| hub_cap | then build from scratch | 18:49 |
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| juice | what's your vote hub_cap? | 18:49 |
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| hub_cap | my vote is to vote against juice | 18:50 |
| cweid | Too late he missed the vote. | 18:50 |
| hub_cap | in general, in life | 18:50 |
| juice | that leave you two options | 18:50 |
| juice | yes or no | 18:50 |
| SlickNik | So allow it. But let's make a best effort to follow this order: distro package, project maintainer PPA, some random PPA. | 18:50 |
| cweid | We have like 50 million options | 18:50 |
| cweid | If there is a package in the distro use it | 18:50 |
| cweid | if not | 18:50 |
| cweid | find some other place to get it? | 18:50 |
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| grapex | Why would someone add a PPA if an official option existed? | 18:51 |
| cweid | I don't see how this is really an issue? | 18:51 |
| hub_cap | so is there such a thing as "project maintainer ppa" | 18:51 |
| grapex | Seems mean. :/ | 18:51 |
| cweid | Can we just have an order of operations? | 18:51 |
| mat-lowery | Case by case basis of course but Redis PPA was chosen because it was a newer version. | 18:51 |
| SlickNik | grapex: modified slightly for perf / whatever. | 18:51 |
| hub_cap | mat-lowery: and im sure the same would be said wrt my5.6 | 18:51 |
| SlickNik | Okay, I think we've beaten this to death. | 18:52 |
| SlickNik | LEt's move on. | 18:52 |
| SlickNik | #topic Open Items | 18:52 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open Items (Meeting topic: trove)" | 18:52 | |
| kevinconway | SlickNik: didn't you have a topic about commit messages? | 18:52 |
| vgnbkr | Was the -1 for comments issue covered? | 18:52 |
| iccha | i have soemthing i wanted to mention as well | 18:52 |
| SlickNik | Yes, I did. | 18:53 |
| SlickNik | It's short. | 18:53 |
| SlickNik | iccha: you can go first. | 18:53 |
| iccha | neha wanted us to look at https://wiki.openstack.org/w/index.php?title=Trove/list-datastore-type-and-versions | 18:53 |
| iccha | she made changes after bp was approved | 18:53 |
| iccha | to the api response | 18:53 |
| robertmyers | iccha: that looks good | 18:54 |
| NehaV | thanks iccha. | 18:54 |
| robertmyers | nice and backward compatible | 18:55 |
| cp16net | yeah it was additive of the versions | 18:55 |
| NehaV | ya basically i made the change for augmenting the existing call and changed the format of the response | 18:55 |
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| NehaV | now versions are nested within each db type | 18:55 |
| SlickNik | iccha / NehaV: Looks good to me at a quick glance. | 18:55 |
| iccha | thanks for taking a look ! | 18:55 |
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| grapex | SlickNik: So about that -1 comment thing | 18:56 |
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| SlickNik | Okay, so I just wanted to chat a bit about the −1 on Commit messages. | 18:56 |
| grapex | What's a good idea of the kind of commit message styles that are getting -1'd which you think shouldn't be? | 18:56 |
| SlickNik | I've seen a bunch of them that say "Please provide Reasons / Changes" | 18:56 |
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| SlickNik | I'm not sure how the "Reasons / Changes" requirement came about, but I don't think we should mandate it. esp for a 1-2 line change. | 18:58 |
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| cp16net | SlickNik: oh mean in the commit message | 18:58 |
| robertmyers | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/GitCommitMessages | 18:58 |
| robertmyers | no reason / change | 18:58 |
| cp16net | yeah i dont think that its a big deal | 18:58 |
| grapex | I don't like seeing that either | 18:58 |
| vgnbkr | I think it's fair that reasons/changes should be apparent to the reviewer, but it shouldn't be necessary to have explicit sections. The reviewer should use their judgement. | 18:59 |
| SlickNik | Thanks robertmyers, I was looking for that. | 18:59 |
| grapex | I actually think it's a huge waste of text to have to write the Changes especially | 18:59 |
| hub_cap | -1 reasons/changes | 18:59 |
| cweid | gotta run out a little early see you guys next week. Have a good week! | 18:59 |
| hub_cap | just put a paragraph | 18:59 |
| grapex | the "Changes" are already in the git difference which itself is the commit | 18:59 |
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| grapex | and the "reason" should be in the commit msg anyway- there's no need to title it as such | 18:59 |
| grapex | see you cweid | 18:59 |
| kevinconway | are there any rules against lorem ipsum commit messages? | 18:59 |
| SnowDust | hehe : i got a -1 for putting reasons/changes :D | 19:00 |
| SnowDust | thanks hub_cap <3 | 19:00 |
| grapex | kevinconway: I think that's pretty much what the "Reason / Changes" format is | 19:00 |
| grapex | SlickNik: Can we vote? | 19:00 |
| hub_cap | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/86808/ | 19:01 |
| hub_cap | plz view that commit msg | 19:01 |
| hub_cap | and yes juice has noted i misssepellld separation | 19:01 |
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| esp | grapex: +1 | 19:01 |
| SlickNik | Another thing I want to get a quick opinion on. | 19:01 |
| SlickNik | Do we require a bug for all changes? | 19:01 |
| hub_cap | we used to say yes | 19:01 |
| robertmyers | yes | 19:01 |
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| hub_cap | but im tihnking no, if its a spelling change | 19:01 |
| iccha | what abt stuff like spelling mistakes? | 19:01 |
| cp16net | if its small i dont think so | 19:01 |
| hub_cap | or a trnsifex | 19:01 |
| esp | I have had folks ask for more descriptive messages tho | 19:01 |
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| hub_cap | or something mordred does on tox | 19:01 |
| cp16net | but if its bigger than a line or 2 i think we should | 19:01 |
| robertmyers | no spelling change commits | 19:01 |
| hub_cap | lol robertmyers | 19:01 |
| amrith | SlickNik, I thought it was BP or BUG | 19:01 |
| SlickNik | I think I agree with the general sentiment. | 19:01 |
| juice | robertmyers: +1 | 19:01 |
| hub_cap | SnowDust: ;) | 19:01 |
| iccha | whats the settlement SlickNik ? | 19:02 |
| SlickNik | #startvote Require bug, or bp? yes, no | 19:02 |
| cp16net | the meeting is over. | 19:02 |
| openstack | Begin voting on: Require bug, or bp? Valid vote options are yes, no. | 19:02 |
| openstack | Vote using '#vote OPTION'. Only your last vote counts. | 19:02 |
| kevinconway | iccha: i don't discuss settlements without my lawyer present | 19:02 |
| hub_cap | #vote no | 19:02 |
| robertmyers | #vote yes | 19:02 |
| hub_cap | hurry!!!!! | 19:02 |
| hub_cap | we are over | 19:02 |
| SlickNik | I think the idea is that we don't need it for small changes. | 19:02 |
| SnowDust | #vote no | 19:02 |
| juice | #vote no | 19:02 |
| cp16net | #vote not always | 19:02 |
| grapex | #vote no | 19:02 |
| openstack | cp16net: not always is not a valid option. Valid options are yes, no. | 19:02 |
| hub_cap | way to go cp16net | 19:02 |
| cp16net | #vote no | 19:02 |
| SlickNik | #vote no | 19:02 |
| juice | man cp16net! | 19:02 |
| amrith | #vote yes | 19:02 |
| cp16net | :-/ | 19:02 |
| hub_cap | #vote no , not always :) | 19:02 |
| openstack | hub_cap: no , not always :) is not a valid option. Valid options are yes, no. | 19:02 |
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| SlickNik | any more takers? | 19:03 |
| vgnbkr | #vote yes | 19:03 |
| juice | vote-bot don't take no 'ish | 19:03 |
| grapex | juice: lol! | 19:03 |
| SlickNik | lol | 19:03 |
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| iccha | we should make it explicit under what conditions it is ok not to have a bug or bp | 19:03 |
| robertmyers | #vote falsey | 19:03 |
| openstack | robertmyers: falsey is not a valid option. Valid options are yes, no. | 19:03 |
| SlickNik | #endvote | 19:03 |
| konetzed | iccha: +1` | 19:03 |
| openstack | Voted on "Require bug, or bp?" Results are | 19:03 |
| openstack | yes (3): robertmyers, amrith, vgnbkr | 19:03 |
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| openstack | no (6): SlickNik, SnowDust, juice, cp16net, grapex, hub_cap | 19:03 |
| esmute | #vote no | 19:04 |
| amrith | the yea's have it | 19:04 |
| * amrith rejoices | 19:04 | |
| SlickNik | lol | 19:04 |
| SlickNik | #endmeeting | 19:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "(Meeting topic: training-manuals)" | 19:04 | |
| esmute | lets not waste lp ids | 19:04 |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Apr 30 19:04:27 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 19:04 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/trove/2014/trove.2014-04-30-18.02.html | 19:04 |
| grapex | Thanks SlickNik! | 19:04 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/trove/2014/trove.2014-04-30-18.02.txt | 19:04 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/trove/2014/trove.2014-04-30-18.02.log.html | 19:04 |
| juice | amrith: it's whichever side tallies exactly 3 votes which wins right? | 19:04 |
| amrith | juice: I want a recount with paper ballot | 19:04 |
| SlickNik | This isn't urgent we can take the discussion to #openstack-trove. | 19:04 |
| juice | paper punch ballots I presume | 19:05 |
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