| *** elodilles is now known as elodilles_pto | 06:49 | |
| *** blarnath is now known as d34dh0r53 | 12:23 | |
| JayF | tc-members: meeting in 2 minutes | 15:58 |
|---|---|---|
| JayF | #startmeeting tc | 16:00 |
| opendevmeet | Meeting started Wed Mar 15 16:00:19 2023 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is JayF. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 16:00 |
| opendevmeet | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 16:00 |
| opendevmeet | The meeting name has been set to 'tc' | 16:00 |
| JayF | #topic Roll call | 16:00 |
| JayF | o/ | 16:00 |
| jamespage | o/ | 16:00 |
| gmann | o/ | 16:00 |
| slaweq | o/ | 16:00 |
| dansmith | o/ | 16:00 |
| rosmaita | o/ | 16:01 |
| spotz[m] | o/ | 16:01 |
| noonedeadpunk | o/ | 16:01 |
| JayF | I think that is quorum :) | 16:01 |
| JayF | #topic Follow up on past action items | 16:01 |
| JayF | by my checking of https://meetings.opendev.org/meetings/tc/2023/tc.2023-03-08-15.59.txt there appears to be no hanging action items from last week | 16:02 |
| gmann | JayF: knikolla[m] did we send the agenda on ML for this meeting? I did not see | 16:02 |
| rosmaita | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/TechnicalCommittee#Next_Meeting | 16:02 |
| JayF | #link https://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-discuss/2023-March/032715.html mentioned that it was on the wiki | 16:03 |
| JayF | I'm working off the agenda rosmaita in the wiki | 16:03 |
| JayF | **I'm working off the agenda from the wiki linked by rosmaita | 16:03 |
| rosmaita | :) | 16:03 |
| gmann | we need to send on ML also once we finalized agenda like 12 hr before or so. I usually used to send on Tuesday evening I think 21 UTC | 16:04 |
| gmann | so that community know the final agenda but anyways we can proceed for this meeting | 16:04 |
| JayF | Just so I'm clear; is that policy or convention? | 16:04 |
| gmann | it is written on meeting wiki page #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/TechnicalCommittee | 16:05 |
| gmann | it help to know the final agenda and community members can plan to attend accordingly | 16:05 |
| dansmith | pretty useful convention I think... | 16:05 |
| gmann | yeah, no policy as written | 16:05 |
| JayF | Yeah, I agree, mainly wanting to be sure that it's OK we talk about things on the agenda if it wasn't announced properly | 16:05 |
| JayF | seems like it's not ideal but OK | 16:05 |
| gmann | yeah it is ok. | 16:05 |
| JayF | #topic Deciding on meeting time | 16:05 |
| gmann | just checking in case I missed it on ML | 16:05 |
| dansmith | it's not limiting, it's just advisory, IMHO | 16:05 |
| JayF | It looks like we only have 4 responses to https://doodle.com/meeting/participate/id/er2LQQ2e/vote | 16:05 |
| JayF | That means 5 of us, including me, need to respond to the doodle | 16:06 |
| JayF | given this new time would be effective at the start of April; I propose we encourage folks to respond and do not take action on this until next meeting (3/22) | 16:06 |
| gmann | I think dansmith reopened on that ? | 16:06 |
| dansmith | what? | 16:06 |
| JayF | Dan is one of the 4 respondants for the doodle :) so are you gmann, jamespage, and rosmaita | 16:07 |
| noonedeadpunk | Hm, I think I have missed that somehow | 16:07 |
| rosmaita | that is like the biggest doodle i have ever seen | 16:07 |
| gmann | I think knikolla[m] also | 16:07 |
| rosmaita | 75 options! | 16:07 |
| dansmith | rosmaita: yeah, way too big to be useful, IMHO | 16:07 |
| JayF | Is everyone OK with us pushing this another week to give more time for people to respond? | 16:07 |
| slaweq | ++ | 16:07 |
| gmann | should be fine as it is going to be effective from april | 16:08 |
| dansmith | I tried to go through every hour in a given week, but.. especially with the time change implied, it was a lot of work | 16:08 |
| jamespage | yep | 16:08 |
| JayF | #action Remaining 5 TC members to respond to https://doodle.com/meeting/participate/id/er2LQQ2e/vote | 16:08 |
| rosmaita | dansmith: my problem is with the interface only displaying 5 opts at a time | 16:08 |
| dansmith | rosmaita: that also | 16:08 |
| JayF | I agree it's a bit tedious which is why I didn't just fill it out during the meeting just now when I realized I missed it | 16:08 |
| dansmith | I kinda wish we could have started with a "does this time work for everyone, what about +1 hour, +1 day, etc | 16:08 |
| gmann | oh, knikolla[m] has to select all options as author. that is what doodle vote are now a days? | 16:09 |
| rosmaita | but just eyeballing it, even with only 4 responses, it is going to be really hard to find a time | 16:09 |
| dansmith | it's also hard to survey the available options now because it only shows me three responses at a time for some reason | 16:09 |
| JayF | So how about this, can the folks who haven't responded yet try to make a point to get to it this calendar week, preferably today? | 16:09 |
| JayF | Then we can revisit on the mailing list before next meeting if there's no time appearing, or we don't get participation | 16:09 |
| dansmith | I think everyone is here today (even spotz[m]) so could we short-circuit and ask if this time now works for people? | 16:10 |
| gmann | +1 | 16:10 |
| JayF | That's not true though, knikolla[m] is not here | 16:10 |
| slaweq | JayF I will do this doodle tomorrow morning my time | 16:10 |
| fungi | i ran into similar challenges trying to determine a new time for the security sig meetings. basically eneded up making three polls, one for cadence, one for preferred weekday, and then finally one for available times on that day of the week for the chosen cadence | 16:11 |
| dansmith | JayF: I think that's a one-off conflict isn't it? normally knikolla[m] is here | 16:11 |
| noonedeadpunk | Yeah, time that works for me already does not work for 2 already responded folks at very least | 16:11 |
| JayF | dansmith: Oh, I reread your comment; I understand now. | 16:11 |
| gmann | it is hard to find time work for everyone, we as elected and self nominated TC need to take it on priority. that is my opinion | 16:12 |
| gmann | and choose the time work for majority. | 16:12 |
| gmann | but anyways let's wait for all members to vote | 16:12 |
| JayF | I'm afraid that'll start a feedback loop where we'll isolate the effective TC membership to a single timezone or region. | 16:12 |
| JayF | It's a hard problem, I agree we should wait until all TC members vote on the doodle | 16:12 |
| JayF | and go from there | 16:12 |
| JayF | unless there's a second, or support for dansmith's proposal to vote on this time right now, we should probably move on | 16:13 |
| gmann | that we take care as we did in past when I was in TC from Tokyo and was ok to attend ni my mid night | 16:13 |
| dansmith | I just meant informally ask if the time now works for people | 16:13 |
| dansmith | because it's a lot of work to fill out 75 timeslots | 16:13 |
| dansmith | I know because I did it | 16:13 |
| gmann | I am ok with that too. | 16:13 |
| noonedeadpunk | I also don't realize if it's with with summer time or not, as it's transforming time to current timezone... | 16:14 |
| gmann | new members jamespage is from which timezone? I think that can solve most of the question | 16:14 |
| JayF | Wednesday at 4am DST is marked as only acceptable to knikolla[m] and not to the other folks who have responded? | 16:14 |
| rosmaita | noonedeadpunk: i believe it is your current timezone | 16:14 |
| jamespage | UTC now, GMT later | 16:14 |
| JayF | I'm assuming the doodle is in local time? | 16:14 |
| noonedeadpunk | Yeah, so... I should like add 1h to any time picked, right? | 16:14 |
| JayF | s/local/UTC/ | 16:14 |
| noonedeadpunk | It's in local timezone | 16:15 |
| dansmith | JayF: wait, what? | 16:15 |
| JayF | noonedeadpunk: that explains so much | 16:15 |
| gmann | I thought it was local | 16:15 |
| noonedeadpunk | And I can't change that to UTC | 16:15 |
| dansmith | it better be local timezone or I have to change my submission. it's not clear to me if it's already DST-adjusted or not though | 16:15 |
| JayF | I was confused, noonedeadpunk set me straight | 16:15 |
| gmann | yeah, if it is in UTC then I voted all wrong | 16:15 |
| rosmaita | yeah, doodle thinks it is smarter than you are | 16:15 |
| dansmith | that's part of the problem doing it in the middle of the DST shift, fwiw | 16:15 |
| noonedeadpunk | dansmith: I bet it's not DST-adjusted... | 16:15 |
| rosmaita | dansmith: did you fill it out before the weekend? | 16:15 |
| dansmith | and also part of the problem not just working off a delta from the currently acceptable meeting time | 16:16 |
| gmann | https://framadate.org/ is much simpler than doodle | 16:16 |
| dansmith | rosmaita: no | 16:16 |
| dansmith | rosmaita: europe hasn't switched yet, so I have no idea if it's showing them US-based DST or their own timezone | 16:16 |
| rosmaita | should be their local TZ | 16:17 |
| dansmith | "does this time work for everyone" is even simpler than framadate :P | 16:17 |
| JayF | I'll note that of the 5 respondants (the number 4 wasn't including the author), not all 5 have marked the current time as acceptable AFAICT | 16:17 |
| JayF | So I don't think we should do an immediate vote on the current time and instead stick with the doodle | 16:17 |
| dansmith | gmann: you marked $now as unacceptable? | 16:17 |
| JayF | We do have other items to talk about though so we should probably move on | 16:17 |
| fungi | yes, one of the reasons i used framadate.org for the security sig meeting time polls (aside from the fact that it's an open source service) is that you can basically hard-code the times, so in the poll i just say that the times are utc and then list explicit start/end times. it's more effort to set up, but avoids tz confusion from tools trying to be helpful and convert for you | 16:17 |
| spotz[m] | Doesn’t work for me. But it didn’t work for me when you moved to it | 16:18 |
| rosmaita | fungi: ++ | 16:18 |
| gmann | dansmith: confused with it is after time change or not but I prefer not this time BUT ok to adjust my schedule given TC on priority | 16:18 |
| JayF | I'm going to move on, we should ensure all of us fill out the doodle, I'll try to see if I can figure out if it's DST-adjusted or not. | 16:18 |
| dansmith | gmann: ack | 16:18 |
| JayF | Next up is... | 16:18 |
| JayF | #topic Gate health check | 16:19 |
| JayF | Do we have any updates on the gate? | 16:19 |
| dansmith | load has been low lately, so it's hard to tell for sure, | 16:19 |
| noonedeadpunk | damn it, I logged in to doodle and now it's even not local timezone.... | 16:19 |
| dansmith | but definitely worlds better than a few weeks ago, IMHO | 16:19 |
| gmann | noonedeadpunk: heh, I avoided to login | 16:19 |
| slaweq | yeah, it's better currently | 16:20 |
| gmann | yeah, did not see any frequent failure | 16:20 |
| dansmith | there was some desire to backport the mysql memory fix to stable devstack.. as it seems like it's universally better | 16:20 |
| JayF | That's excellent to hear, and good timing :) Thank you for all the work everyone is doing to keep things moving | 16:20 |
| dansmith | so we might want to also consider throwing that default on master, if gmann is ready/willing | 16:20 |
| JayF | ++ | 16:20 |
| gmann | stable/2023.1 gate/devstack setup is in progress. hopefully we will be able to finsih by th8is week #link https://review.opendev.org/q/topic:qa-2023-1-release | 16:20 |
| fungi | we're still fiddling with some node providers trying to squeeze more capacity out of our quotas too, in hopes of improving response times for jobs | 16:21 |
| dansmith | (elodilles_pto was asking about backporting) | 16:21 |
| gmann | dansmith: let me finish the devstack setup etc most probably we are ok as stable/2023.1 on devstack exist but let's finish other setup and then we can flip the flag | 16:21 |
| dansmith | gmann: okay | 16:21 |
| gmann | dansmith: backporting ? | 16:21 |
| dansmith | gmann: yeah, elodilles_pto was asking to backport the mysql memory fix to earlier devstack because so many stable jobs are failing with OOM | 16:22 |
| dansmith | and because it seems to have solved the problems on master | 16:22 |
| gmann | dansmith: you mean backporting 'default to True' | 16:22 |
| dansmith | not necessarily, but backporting the ability to set it | 16:22 |
| dansmith | like, to older stables | 16:22 |
| gmann | ohk, to older one. +1. i was confused as it is already in for stable/2023.1 | 16:23 |
| gmann | sounds good to me | 16:23 |
| dansmith | yeah, to like stable/zed | 16:23 |
| gmann | +1 | 16:23 |
| dansmith | (and probably earlier) | 16:23 |
| JayF | Thank for for finding that and doing all the good stuff for devstack keeping things running :) | 16:23 |
| dansmith | maybe when they return from pto that'll get proposed | 16:23 |
| gmann | sure | 16:23 |
| JayF | I don't think there's anything else actionable for gate health check though, should we move on? | 16:24 |
| gmann | nothing else from me | 16:24 |
| JayF | #topic Virtual PTG Planning | 16:24 |
| JayF | March 27-31 is the virtual PTG. We are tracking TC topics in the etherpad here: | 16:24 |
| JayF | #link https://etherpad.opendev.org/p/tc-2023-2-ptg | 16:24 |
| gmann | we may want to continue the discussion on scheduling 'operator-hour' this time ? | 16:25 |
| gmann | this was left from last week meeting due to Time constraints | 16:25 |
| JayF | gmann: do you want to lead that discussion since I wasn't here last week? | 16:25 |
| gmann | sure | 16:25 |
| JayF | thank you | 16:26 |
| gmann | as you know we schedule the 'operator-hour' in last vPTG and it was mixed feedback. for few projects it was not productive and for a few projects it was good discussion | 16:26 |
| gmann | we did not see much attendance from opetrator thought but that may be because it was the first time | 16:27 |
| gmann | let me fetch the feedback etherpad | 16:27 |
| dansmith | yeah, seems worth doing again at least one more time, just because of exposure | 16:27 |
| JayF | IMO there is value in providing the venue even if many operators do not take the opportunity to join us. Perhaps we can encourage more operators to attend? For instance, we can ensure we get a plug for it at the Antelope OpenInfra Live highlights session | 16:27 |
| dansmith | meaning, people may have, over the last six months, realized they missed out and would be up for it this time with lots of warning | 16:28 |
| noonedeadpunk | Isn't it a bit too late for that? | 16:28 |
| gmann | here is feedback #link https://etherpad.opendev.org/p/Oct2022_PTGFeedback#L32 | 16:28 |
| noonedeadpunk | As most projects have already agreed some timeframes when project members can present | 16:28 |
| noonedeadpunk | Already sent MLs about timeslots booked... | 16:28 |
| gmann | noonedeadpunk: i donot think so. we need to book slots for those | 16:29 |
| noonedeadpunk | I actualy was sad to see there're no operator hours this time, but it's less then 2 weeks left, so dunno | 16:29 |
| rosmaita | i agree with noonedeadpunk, it does seem kind of late | 16:29 |
| gmann | to avoid conflict in projects scheduling the operator hour on same time, TC booked the placeholder slots and asked projects to pick from those | 16:29 |
| rosmaita | i think we should push for this at the in-person PTG | 16:29 |
| noonedeadpunk | Well, as a matter of fact, not everyone involved in project work have only vPTG in their schedules | 16:30 |
| JayF | I don't think projects need the full set of contributors there for operator hour | 16:30 |
| gmann | honestly saying I am not sure how many of community developers will be there in in-person PTG | 16:30 |
| JayF | even just a PTL or a couple of designates is likely sufficient to recieve feedback | 16:30 |
| JayF | especially given the historical lack of participation | 16:30 |
| dansmith | gmann: and may be the same for operators | 16:30 |
| JayF | rosmaita++ but as an addition to this one, not instead of it | 16:30 |
| noonedeadpunk | maybe because that also needs some promotion? | 16:30 |
| gmann | dansmith: yes | 16:31 |
| gmann | that is why we want to take vPTG benefits of having more attendance | 16:31 |
| rosmaita | ok, i didn't handle scheduling for this vPTG, didn't know the TC had already reserved slots | 16:31 |
| gmann | not yet | 16:31 |
| gmann | but I think we can book placeholder and ask project to pick which should be ok | 16:32 |
| gmann | and promotion can go in parallel | 16:32 |
| JayF | So it sounds like we agree there is value for vPTG having operator hour, but some concerns about logistics of scheduling it. I think gmann's proposal of booking placeholders and reaching out to projects is good, even if we're getting involved a little late. | 16:32 |
| JayF | gmann: do you mind owning that? reserving placeholders and emailing for PTLs to pick one? | 16:32 |
| dansmith | it's also what we did last time | 16:32 |
| JayF | assuming there's some level of agreement? | 16:32 |
| gmann | JayF: sure I can do. | 16:32 |
| JayF | Is there any objection to that proposed course of action? | 16:33 |
| fungi | need to be more clear with messaging around that this time though, we had a lot of confusion last time with ptls rebooking operator hour slots into different rooms an dthen not removing the placeholders, and other teams trying to book the same times | 16:33 |
| gmann | yeah, if no strong objection | 16:33 |
| rosmaita | fungi: good point | 16:33 |
| dansmith | fungi: yeah, and some projects booking three of them | 16:33 |
| gmann | yeah, we need to make sure of that. | 16:33 |
| rosmaita | gmann: what is the plan for where the operator hour happens? | 16:33 |
| gmann | I think asking projects to pick one is enough and they can ask operator to come in developes slot for any specific discussion | 16:33 |
| dansmith | gmann: right I'm saying some booked three last time, so we should be clear *not* to do that :) | 16:34 |
| gmann | yeah | 16:34 |
| JayF | I do strongly recommend we time this so that projects have an operator hour nailed down before next TC meeting; which will enable us to plug it on the OpenInfra Live | 16:34 |
| gmann | if no strong objection then let me compose etherpad about it and will book placeholder in parallel | 16:34 |
| rosmaita | ok, so operators will join the dev team in the location where the dev team is meeting? | 16:34 |
| spotz[m] | I haven’t heard anything back from or Kendall | 16:34 |
| dansmith | rosmaita: yeah | 16:35 |
| gmann | rosmaita: yes, | 16:35 |
| JayF | rosmaita: last time, we booked a specific room for it -- e.g. zoom | 16:35 |
| fungi | yes, i think the argument at the time was that operators wouldn't want to have to hang up and dial into a different room for each session | 16:35 |
| dansmith | last time we used the project rooms as I recall | 16:36 |
| gmann | yes, project room | 16:36 |
| fungi | many teams did because they rebooked the placeholders into their own rooms | 16:36 |
| gmann | and it was very easy to check 'where is cinder operator hour is and click to join' | 16:36 |
| JayF | With my PTL hat on; I'm happy to go wherever we need to to make it easiest on operators. I don't have a good insight into what that is though. | 16:36 |
| dansmith | fungi: yeah maybe the placeholder confusion extended to the room confusion | 16:36 |
| fungi | but the placeholders all initially used a single room in order to reduce confusion for ops, it just ended up that the teams decided that wasn't important to them | 16:37 |
| JayF | fungi: gmann: Do we think a stronger statement about the value of keeping them in the same room/time as the placeholder will help avoid these situations? | 16:37 |
| fungi | or else the reason for using the same room for all ops sessions wasn't clearly enough communicated to ptls and they didn't realize it was intentional | 16:37 |
| * JayF was one of the confused PTLs who rebooked a thing last time; it won't happen for us again | 16:37 | |
| dansmith | man, that's not how I remember it at all, maybe I'm misremembering.. but I thought the placeholders were striped across available rooms and the intent was to rebook into the project rooms | 16:37 |
| dansmith | JayF: I strongly prefer the operators coming to the project rooms, | 16:38 |
| dansmith | in hopes they'll stay around for follow-on discussion instead of just having the ops discussions and then the whole dev team leaving | 16:38 |
| gmann | yeah, that is one of the goal for these sessions to have more operator join developers interaction | 16:38 |
| JayF | I prefer operators attend at all; if having it in the project rooms is a barrier to that I'm happy to have it elsewhere. If we don't think that's a barrier, I agree with dansmith | 16:38 |
| fungi | they did end up all over the place room-wise, but mainly because of rebooking into team-specific rooms | 16:38 |
| dansmith | right exactly | 16:38 |
| gmann | otherwise it is more of ops-meetup | 16:38 |
| dansmith | so let's make it clear about the project room booking this time to avoid that confusion | 16:39 |
| dansmith | and shoot for project rooms | 16:39 |
| JayF | We have 5 remaining agenda items and 20 minutes; so we should try to come to an agreement here quickly lest we run the clock out. | 16:39 |
| fungi | the argument at the time was to make it feel more like the ops meetup for them, because they'd be hesitant to share if they felt like they were on someone else's "turf" from a room perspective | 16:39 |
| fungi | i think it was TheJulia making that argument during initial planning | 16:39 |
| dansmith | fungi: that was one argument and we voted, the result being project rooms | 16:40 |
| gmann | dansmith: then we need to avoid placeholder ? | 16:40 |
| gmann | and ask project to book one slot for operator-hour but make sure no conflict with other related projects | 16:40 |
| dansmith | gmann: I dunno, maybe we need a different way to expose the placeholder slots than putting them in a room they won't really be in.. the point is just to avoid conflicts between the projects | 16:41 |
| JayF | The real piece we need to agree on at a TC-level is if we want it booked in operator-hour-specific-rooms or in the project rooms | 16:41 |
| gmann | yeah, let me thing and put something on etherpad today and then we can add feedback if still any issue | 16:41 |
| fungi | yeah, if the plan this time is to intentionally book them into whatever room is most convenient for each project team, then i would avoid pre-booking generic placeholders | 16:41 |
| JayF | how we communicate that is a detail I'm happy to leave to gmann | 16:41 |
| JayF | but we do have to get this topic to a close | 16:41 |
| gmann | and once TC are happy then I can push it on ML | 16:41 |
| slaweq | sorry but I need to drop earlier today. I will read through rest of the meeting log tomorrow morning | 16:42 |
| slaweq | o/ | 16:42 |
| dansmith | yeah, I think we can figure out a better way to do that and handle it | 16:42 |
| JayF | #agreed gmann will detail plan in etherpad for operator hour planning, and execute it if no objection brought after posting | 16:42 |
| gmann | thanks | 16:43 |
| JayF | Does that sound correct to you all? | 16:43 |
| JayF | Lets do try to get times nailed down by next week; we really extend our reach if we can get it on the youtube live | 16:43 |
| rosmaita | sounds good | 16:43 |
| gmann | +1 | 16:43 |
| rosmaita | and i agree about getting it onto the openinfra live broadcast | 16:43 |
| JayF | Moving on then | 16:44 |
| JayF | #topic TC 2023.1 tracker status | 16:44 |
| JayF | #link https://etherpad.opendev.org/p/tc-2023.1-tracker | 16:44 |
| JayF | for my item, on checking status of projects, I'm fairly certain it's likely too large of a scope to end up successful. I'm willing to consider my item completed as researched and seen as unviable for now :( | 16:44 |
| JayF | which I think is the result of the other times something similar has been researched | 16:45 |
| gmann | it seems we have many items to finish but next cycle is about to start | 16:45 |
| JayF | I suggest we add a 2023.1 TC item carryover discussion to PTG | 16:45 |
| JayF | where we can triage, decide what should carry over and what shouldn't | 16:45 |
| JayF | and maybe have a better idea of overall TC-member-capacity when volunteering for items (I made this mistake myself last TC-PTG) | 16:46 |
| gmann | yeah we can do but many of them are already agreed and easy to finish but agree to re-iterate if we want to do those if not finished in this cycle (means no priority ?) | 16:46 |
| gmann | s/if not/or not | 16:47 |
| JayF | I guess I think of it sorta like, with PTG from a project perspective, there's "what we want to do", "what we agree is useful to do" and then the reality of "what we actually have time to do" | 16:47 |
| JayF | even items where we have a "yes" on the first two, we often have to revisit to ensure it's worth spending contributor capacity on vs new items that are coming up | 16:47 |
| JayF | I would assume we could take this same approach to TC items not completed in a cycle; re-evaluate priority against capacity and incoming items and ensure we still think it's the best use of time | 16:48 |
| gmann | sure, that make sense. and in next cycle tracker we can choose the one based on bandwidth available and priority of item | 16:49 |
| JayF | I've added it to https://etherpad.opendev.org/p/tc-2023-2-ptg | 16:49 |
| JayF | Is there anything else related to 2023.1 tracker status? | 16:50 |
| JayF | We have a topic next for cleanup of pypi maintainership on the agenda; is there action to take there, or is that a good candidate to push to next week since we're low on time? | 16:50 |
| clarkb | I still see an occasional email indicating someone has made changes | 16:51 |
| gmann | I think you volunteer to send email about PTL asking maintainers to remove themself and give ownership ? | 16:51 |
| JayF | #topic Cleanup of PyPI maintainership | 16:51 |
| gmann | QA did that and all steps done now | 16:51 |
| JayF | #link https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/governance/+/874787 | 16:51 |
| JayF | that needs to land before any contact with PTLs can be made, I think it's eligible to merge right now | 16:52 |
| gmann | this is ready to merge now | 16:52 |
| JayF | If there's no objection; I'll ensure that lands after the meeting and take the action to notify PTLs to notify owners | 16:52 |
| JayF | #action JayF To notify PTLs about action-needed for PyPI maintainership cleanup | 16:52 |
| JayF | Sounds like this is on track then, good stuff \o/ | 16:53 |
| JayF | going to move on quickly so we can get thru the rest | 16:53 |
| JayF | #topic Recurring tasks check | 16:53 |
| JayF | #topic Recurring tasks check | 16:53 |
| JayF | #undo | 16:53 |
| opendevmeet | Removing item from minutes: #topic Recurring tasks check | 16:53 |
| gmann | JayF: it will be good to add those extra or update steps in #link https://etherpad.opendev.org/p/openstack-pypi-maintainers-cleanup | 16:53 |
| JayF | How do bare rechecks look? | 16:53 |
| dansmith | slaweq had to leave | 16:53 |
| dansmith | (so punt) | 16:54 |
| JayF | One week without the update won't be too bad :) | 16:54 |
| JayF | #topic Check in on voting for version names | 16:54 |
| JayF | #link https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/governance/+/874484 | 16:54 |
| JayF | and | 16:54 |
| JayF | #link https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/governance/+/875942 | 16:54 |
| dansmith | feels like we can drop this from the (crowded) agenda to me at this point | 16:54 |
| JayF | are competing to change the status quo of how we reference versions; if you have opinions please comment in the reviews and/or place a Rollcall vote on them | 16:54 |
| JayF | dansmith: yeah, until PTG you're likely right | 16:55 |
| JayF | moving on | 16:55 |
| dansmith | doesn't seem like there's intertia | 16:55 |
| JayF | #topic Open Reviews | 16:55 |
| JayF | #link https://review.opendev.org/q/projects:openstack/governance+is:open | 16:55 |
| JayF | We have a handful of governance changes that have been updated recently, please review them and place votes on them. | 16:55 |
| JayF | I'll be looking at them after this meeting myself. | 16:55 |
| JayF | Is there anything further for the TC meeting? | 16:56 |
| gmann | nothing from me | 16:56 |
| JayF | Thank you all for being cooperative and helping me through chairing my first meeting; I'm happy to accept feedback in DM if there is any. | 16:56 |
| JayF | #endmeeting | 16:56 |
| opendevmeet | Meeting ended Wed Mar 15 16:56:45 2023 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 16:56 |
| opendevmeet | Minutes: https://meetings.opendev.org/meetings/tc/2023/tc.2023-03-15-16.00.html | 16:56 |
| opendevmeet | Minutes (text): https://meetings.opendev.org/meetings/tc/2023/tc.2023-03-15-16.00.txt | 16:56 |
| opendevmeet | Log: https://meetings.opendev.org/meetings/tc/2023/tc.2023-03-15-16.00.log.html | 16:56 |
| gmann | thanks JayF | 16:56 |
| dansmith | rosmaita: circling back, my comment about it being hard to pick times in the middle of the time change | 16:57 |
| dansmith | rosmaita: is related to some of my meetings which are pinned to a european time zone, so they will shift, but not all of mine will at this point | 16:57 |
| gmann | JayF: on PyPI maintainers, before sending ML can you update/add steps in this also https://etherpad.opendev.org/p/openstack-pypi-maintainers-cleanup | 16:57 |
| dansmith | so it's fairly laborious and error-prone to determine that | 16:57 |
| gmann | it will be helpful for PTLs to refer | 16:57 |
| rosmaita | i think that's why kristi made the poll for April 3 after USA and Europe have gone to DST | 16:57 |
| JayF | gmann: https://etherpad.opendev.org/p/openstack-pypi-maintainers-cleanup-email-template was what I was going to send out | 16:57 |
| JayF | gmann: which doesn't even reference that etherpad, I was going to pre-aggregate it | 16:58 |
| JayF | gmann: that being said; I'm happy to cleanup that etherpad too :D | 16:58 |
| rosmaita | dansmith: i have the 2-week shift action too in some meetings that were set up by someone in a european time zone | 16:59 |
| gmann | JayF: the original one has tracking for projects, I think it will be good to add your etherpad link in main one also and you can send that email template | 16:59 |
| JayF | Ack; yeah looking at it I think you're right. I'll likely schedule myself to take this action Thursday afternoon on my OSS Office Hours stream :D | 16:59 |
| JayF | (cleaning up the etherpad and preparing for the emails; sending them will not happen live as email addresses are private) | 17:00 |
| gmann | JayF: I can add your email step in main etherpad and then you can have a look. | 17:00 |
| JayF | If you want to front run my work on it by doing some in advance; I have no objection whatsoever :D | 17:00 |
| JayF | the less work that etherpad needs, the more time I have to do other things | 17:00 |
| gmann | JayF: I will just update the main etherpad and then you can check and go ahead on email etc | 17:00 |
| JayF | ack | 17:00 |
| gmann | dansmith: rosmaita: on meeting poll, the current time is in local and after time change right? just want to make sure my votes are correct there https://doodle.com/meeting/participate/id/er2LQQ2e/vote | 17:01 |
| dansmith | gmann: I hope so, but unclear, IMHO | 17:02 |
| rosmaita | gmann: that is my understanding | 17:02 |
| rosmaita | agree with dansmith, not clear | 17:02 |
| * JayF is going to fill out the doodle as if it's post-DST times | 17:03 | |
| gmann | ohk | 17:03 |
| clarkb | I think you can select the timezone in the doodle | 17:04 |
| clarkb | (for yourself when filling it out) | 17:04 |
| gmann | clarkb: I was trying to do that but did not find the option. but I tried without ligin | 17:05 |
| gmann | login | 17:05 |
| clarkb | ya looking at it more closely you may need to create an account to do that :( | 17:05 |
| JayF | Yeah same; with and without login I see the TZ listed but I can't modify it | 17:05 |
| JayF | I can probably change to UTC-everything in account settings for the whole account, but not per-doodle | 17:05 |
| clarkb | it says you can set a timezone in your doodle account settings supposedly | 17:06 |
| JayF | they don't list UTC as a timezone... | 17:06 |
| clarkb | JayF: GMT is the same if they have that option | 17:06 |
| JayF | clarkb: doesn't GMT get impacted by DST differently? | 17:06 |
| JayF | it's listing them by Country, anyway | 17:07 |
| * JayF going to go back to PST and assume it's post-time-change | 17:07 | |
| clarkb | I think technically GMT is always +0 (I shopuld note UTC does have other differences from UTC but for purposes of calednar entries it probablydoesn't matter). I use the iceland gmt entry on google stuff because they also don't utc | 17:08 |
| clarkb | its kinda crazy that date and time planning tools ignore utc so much when it is the least ambiguous option availalbe | 17:08 |
| clarkb | ya British Summer Time is UTC+1 and they distinguish that from GMT | 17:09 |
| gmann | JayF: on PyPi, added the extra step1.1, feel free to add your email link also there once you send https://etherpad.opendev.org/p/openstack-pypi-maintainers-cleanup#L23 | 17:18 |
| JayF | gmann: I might split that step into it's own etherpad, just so it's easy for PTLs to see exactly what their action is (send this email to all bonus maintainers you previously id'd) | 17:20 |
| * JayF assumes we have many PTLs with very little time dedicated to openstack so I wanna keep the context optional and the directive-request obvious | 17:21 | |
| gmann | JayF: I mentioned the link to that etherpad only as step | 17:22 |
| JayF | ack | 17:22 |
| noonedeadpunk | JayF: fwiw, second screenshot is renderred awfully for me https://docs.opendev.org/opendev/infra-manual/latest/creators.html#give-opendev-exclusive-permission-to-publish-releases | 17:25 |
| JayF | noonedeadpunk: I noticed that, it's on my list of things to investigate+fix but honestly not the highest b/c it's at least usable :) | 17:25 |
| * JayF noticed it while he was at SCALE last week, which is extra ironic | 17:25 | |
| noonedeadpunk | yeah, and it's clickable so not biggie indeed | 17:25 |
| opendevreview | Merged openstack/governance master: Exclusive management of projects by openstackci https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/governance/+/874787 | 17:31 |
| fungi | unfortunately, "gmt" is often taken to mean "regions which observed gmt and bst depending on what time of year it is" | 17:54 |
| bauzas | damn shit, forgot the TC meeting *facepalmù | 17:54 |
| bauzas | and yeah, daylight savings are on both BST and GMT TZs, but not UTC, hence the difference GMT != UTC | 17:57 |
| bauzas | if people need to pin a specific city instead of UTC (if they can't find this TZ), they can use Reykjavic as a UTC-based one | 18:03 |
| clarkb | no GMT is explicitly UTC+0 | 18:05 |
| clarkb | there are othe differences between GMT and UTC (butthey are more subtle) | 18:06 |
| clarkb | Reykjavic is officially in GMT fwiw | 18:06 |
| bauzas | ah you're right, just checked | 18:06 |
| bauzas | but GMT isn't a TZ | 18:06 |
| bauzas | hence the problem, sometimes you can't set a specific time in UTC in some calendars and you can't and shouldn't pin on London time | 18:07 |
| bauzas | hence the Reyjkavic hint (which I used in the past) | 18:07 |
| bauzas | but any city on the UTC+0 timezone and not observing daylight saving works | 18:07 |
| clarkb | yup I do the same on android because google doesn't do utc support | 18:08 |
| bauzas | anyway, about doodles, afaik, it shows local time | 18:09 |
| bauzas | *at the given time* | 18:09 |
| bauzas | ie. a meetup set eg. for Apr 4th 20:00 in my doodle means for me Apr 4th 6pm UTC+2 | 18:10 |
| bauzas | since we'll be observing daylight savings *before* that date | 18:10 |
| bauzas | but if someone sets a doodle with a date of Mar 16th 20:00, it will be Mar 16th 7pm UTC | 18:11 |
| bauzas | (oh, made a mistake, I meant Apr 4th 6pm UTC on the previous example) | 18:11 |
| bauzas | https://help.doodle.com/hc/en-us/articles/360012047914-How-does-Doodle-manage-time-zones- | 18:12 |
| bauzas | (and I avoided to vote on your TC meeting, I'm just lurking in general and shouldn't give my opinion :) ) | 18:13 |
| JayF | RFR -> https://etherpad.opendev.org/p/openstack-pypi-maintainers-cleanup-email-template I've put the email I intend on sending to the list at the top there, any suggestions are appreciated | 21:13 |
| JayF | noonedeadpunk: https://review.opendev.org/c/opendev/infra-manual/+/877554 should fix the behavior you were talking about before, if you'd like to review it | 21:19 |
| JayF | My intention is to send the email out about pypi maintainership tomorrow unless I get negative feedback about it before then. | 21:19 |
Generated by irclog2html.py 2.17.3 by Marius Gedminas - find it at https://mg.pov.lt/irclog2html/!