Thursday, 2021-02-18

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spotzOh wow the instal guide never got updated for Victoria!01:56
fungii assume there's just some change or handful of changes needed to the openstack-manuals repo to add it?02:28
fungiit's all piecemeal from the various projects anyway so presumably what's missing is the central index?02:29
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jungleboyjo/14:44
spotzo/14:45
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ttxo/15:01
gmannmeeting time15:01
mnaser#startmeeting tc15:01
gmannmnaser: ping15:01
openstackMeeting started Thu Feb 18 15:01:18 2021 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is mnaser. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.15:01
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.15:01
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: tc)"15:01
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'tc'15:01
jungleboyj:-)15:01
gmann:)15:01
ricolino/15:01
dansmitho/15:01
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mnaser#topic rollcall15:02
*** openstack changes topic to "rollcall (Meeting topic: tc)"15:02
gmanno/15:02
mnaserthanks for hosting last week btw, gmann15:02
diablo_rojoo/15:02
ricolino/15:02
jungleboyjo/15:02
* mnaser has been dealing with all sorts of fun15:02
mnaser#topic Follow up on past action items15:03
*** openstack changes topic to "Follow up on past action items (Meeting topic: tc)"15:03
mnasergmann continue to follow-up on using direct dependencies for l-c jobs15:04
gmannI posted the result of direct deps in l-c test #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-discuss/2021-February/020556.html15:04
gmannand the proposal alternate to removal of l-c testing15:05
gmannwhich is what was initially proposed in ML15:05
gmannlet's wait for more response on that and then we can discuss/document that15:05
mnaserack, thanks for all the follow up on this15:05
gouthamro/15:06
mnaserdiablo_rojo to send the k8s steering meeting details on ML and add section for new meeting in etherpad15:07
diablo_rojoAlready added a new section to the etherpad15:07
diablo_rojobut I need to send an email15:07
mnaserok, we have it as a discussion item, so i will leave it for us to talk bout it when we get to it potentially ?15:07
diablo_rojoI don't think it warrants a whole section now that its been mentioned and I will send the email lol15:08
mnaserok so we can drop that section them15:08
diablo_rojoWant to link the etherpad?15:09
diablo_rojoYeah, mnaser I think so.15:09
mnaseryeah taht might be helpful15:09
gmann#link https://etherpad.opendev.org/p/kubernetes-cross-community-topics15:09
gmannL2915:09
diablo_rojogmann, to the rescue15:09
gmannsorry L2015:09
gmann:)15:09
diablo_rojoas I fumble around with tab complete15:09
diablo_rojoYes line 20, feel free to add topics15:10
mnasercan we keep a rolling action item to add topics there15:10
mnaseri'd really like us to take advantage of this :>15:10
diablo_rojoYeah go for it :)15:11
belmoreirao/15:11
jungleboyj++15:11
mnaser#action diablo_rojo send out email to ML wrt k8s cross-community discussion15:11
mnaser#action tc-members fill out https://etherpad.opendev.org/p/kubernetes-cross-community-topics with topics15:11
diablo_rojo+215:11
mnasercool, anything else about this?15:12
diablo_rojoNope I don't think so15:12
mnaser#action mnaser drop k8s steering commitee meeting from agenda15:12
mnasergmann to follow up with monasca team for https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/governance/+/77178515:12
gmannI pinged Monasca PTL chaconpiza no IRC as well as sent email to him but no response. I will wait for tomorrow afternoon otherwise push the changes and add monasca team as reviewer15:12
mnaserhmm15:13
mnaserwonder if we just dont have an active email too15:13
mnaserhttps://review.opendev.org/q/owner:martin%2540chaconpiza.com15:13
ricolinI also pinged him but no response as well15:13
mnaserdoes monasca team have a scheduled team15:14
* mnaser opens eavesdrop.openstack.org15:14
mnaserhttp://eavesdrop.openstack.org/#Monasca_Team_Meeting15:14
mnaser  Weekly on Tuesday at 1300 UTC in #openstack-monasca (IRC webclient)15:14
mnaserhttp://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/monasca/2021/monasca.2021-02-16-13.00.log.txt15:14
ttxthere was a meeting this week15:14
mnasermaybe we can add something to their team agenda - https://etherpad.opendev.org/p/monasca-team-meeting-agenda15:14
gmannsure, that will help15:15
mnasercool, so lets try that route15:15
gmann+115:15
mnaserill keep the action item for the next week if that's cool15:15
gmannsure15:15
mnaser#action gmann to follow up with monasca team for https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/governance/+/77178515:15
mnaser#topic Audit SIG list and chairs (diablo_rojo)15:15
*** openstack changes topic to "Audit SIG list and chairs (diablo_rojo) (Meeting topic: tc)"15:15
diablo_rojoI let this fall down my todo list again but I will make progress by next week.15:16
diablo_rojoSo.. no updates atm15:16
mnaserok cool no problem :)15:17
mnaser#topic Gate performance and heavy job configs (dansmith)15:17
*** openstack changes topic to "Gate performance and heavy job configs (dansmith) (Meeting topic: tc)"15:17
dansmithnothing really new since last week or so,15:17
dansmithI haven't gone checking to see if things have been dropped,15:17
dansmithgate perf is still pretty bad15:17
mnaserdansmith: is there any easy measurable signal we can all look at to track if things are trending better or worse?15:17
dansmithwe have merged one big improvement to devstack time, and would like to advocate for another which will make a big deal15:17
dansmithmnaser: that metric is super hard to generate, so it's more of a gut feeling sort of thing15:18
dansmithI imagine gmann also has a gut feeling15:18
mnaseri wonder if zuul has some 'avg wait time for change in gate'15:18
dansmithI tried to get some attention in the cinder channel to the test failures last week but got no replies15:18
mnaserwasn't there some twitter bot that would whine when our queues were long :)15:18
dansmithso I will try them again, as it seems like in terms of gate resets they're the high offender15:18
dansmithmnaser: the gate queue depth is easy to see,15:19
dansmithand I watch my patch time-to-run values with dash.py,15:19
mnaserso i think the reset's are what hurt the most right15:19
gmanndid tripleo optimization done?15:19
dansmithgmann: I don't know I haven't checked15:19
dansmiththey were collecting votes, but not sure if it actually happened15:19
fungithe average wait time is going to vary a lot depending on activity levels and time of day/week too, so it's hard to know what you're comparing against15:19
gmannk15:20
mnaserfungi: but i think a good signal that we can focus on is # of gate failures correct?15:20
mnaserthe more gate fails/resets, the worse it gets, esp with gate being high prio15:20
fungiprevious week? same week in the previous development cycle? same week in the prior year?15:20
dansmithmnaser: gate resets hurt a lot, but load is a huge part of it right now I think15:20
gmanni am not sure if that came in past also, can we have some user flag to stop the run ?15:20
mnaserit may be a bit of a domino effect too15:20
fungigate reset count also varies depending on the depth of the queues themselves15:20
mnaserfungi: yes, good poin15:20
gmannso that i can stop if i see some job failing and i do not want rest of other to continue15:20
dansmithright, the gate queue isn't that deep right now15:21
mnasergmann: you could abandon your patch15:21
dansmithso a reset would suck, but it wouldn't be huge15:21
fungithe deeper the queue, the more changes have a chance to fail more than once as changes ahead of them fail15:21
gmannwell that need abandon and restore right15:21
dansmithgmann: or push a new rev15:21
gmannmany case i see failed in gate pipeline so we have to do recheck anyways to why to wait for other15:22
gmannat least gate pipeline can be helpful15:22
gmannremove the review if any of the job fail15:22
dansmithI think the TC should focus on the people stuff we can resolve,15:22
mnaserfungi: multinode jobs and jobs that pause and wait for another job (container stuff) -- do these enforce a cloud in the same nodepool-pool?15:22
dansmithtechnical brainstorming and feature implementation is really not a TC thing, and we can discuss those things in -infra15:23
dansmithso I'll try to check on the optimization efforts to lower the test load before next week's meeting here15:23
fungimnaser: yes, if builds depend on one another then zuul asks nodepool to fill them all from the same provider15:23
dansmithand see if we need some reminders15:23
fungiso that their network communication (if any) will be as local as possible15:23
mnaserthats's fair.  dansmith: is there a script that generates your 'usage per project' thing?15:23
mnaserso we can track if we need to ping more people and if so, who15:23
dansmithmnaser: yes, linked in my email15:23
mnaser#link https://gist.github.com/kk7ds/5edbfacb2a341bb18df8f8f32d01b37c15:25
mnaserok, i'll try and see if i can run that to look over it here too15:25
mnaserok, lets keep the item for now, i don't know if there's a whole lot more we can immediately do15:25
mnaser#topic Mistral Maintenance (gmann)15:25
*** openstack changes topic to "Mistral Maintenance (gmann) (Meeting topic: tc)"15:25
gmannwe are good on this. Renat replied to try the DPL model in Xena.15:26
mnaser#link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-discuss/2021-February/020137.html15:26
mnaserok great, so i think we can drop this from the agenda and have DPL patches for next time around?15:26
gmannyeah.15:26
mnaser#action mnaser drop Mistral Maintenance tp[oc15:27
mnaser#undo15:27
openstackRemoving item from minutes: #action mnaser drop Mistral Maintenance tp[oc15:27
mnaser#action mnaser drop Mistral Maintenance topic15:27
mnaser#topic Student Programs (diablo_rojo)15:28
*** openstack changes topic to "Student Programs (diablo_rojo) (Meeting topic: tc)"15:28
diablo_rojoAnother reminder!15:28
diablo_rojoTomorrow the GSoC applications close.15:28
diablo_rojoStill have some more time to apply for outreachy.15:28
mnaserdo projects need to register or what exactly is actionable here?15:28
diablo_rojoI'm happy to help however I can if people are interested in applying for interns.15:28
diablo_rojoFor outreacy mentors need to apply with a project for interns to work.15:29
diablo_rojoSimilar for GSoC15:29
diablo_rojoWe've only been accepted to GSoC once though so I am less familiar with the process.15:29
mnaserby we = openstack, or a specific openstack project, or osf, or?15:30
diablo_rojoOpenStack15:30
diablo_rojofor GSoC15:30
diablo_rojoOpenStack has long been a participant in outreachy- projects varied under that umbrella15:31
mnaseri'd hate for us to miss out on taking advantage of the opportunity :X15:31
mnasertaking advantage sounds like a poor taste of wording but15:32
mnaseri cant find anything better :)15:32
diablo_rojoStill :) Making use of the opportunity15:32
jungleboyjwah wah wah15:32
diablo_rojoLet me know if you need help! Otherwise, we can move onto ttx's topic15:32
mnaseri'd probably ask if openinfra can take advantage of this15:33
mnaserbut yeah, sure15:33
gmannI am going to put application for QA today15:33
mnaserack15:33
diablo_rojogmann, for outreachy?15:34
diablo_rojomnaser, I have passed along both to all open infra folks.15:34
diablo_rojo(zuul, kata, etc)15:34
gmannneed to check which one or both15:34
mnaserdiablo_rojo: awesome, sorry, i meant opendev, but yeah :p15:34
diablo_rojogmann, sounds good, let me know if I can help.15:34
gmannsure15:34
mnaserok great15:35
mnaser#topic Recommended path forward for OSarchiver (ttx)15:35
*** openstack changes topic to "Recommended path forward for OSarchiver (ttx) (Meeting topic: tc)"15:35
ttxHi! Was just looking for a bit of guidance, on behalf of the Large Scale SIG15:35
ttxOVHCloud released https://github.com/ovh/osarchiver as open source (BSD-3)15:35
ttxIt's a tool to help with archiving OpenStack databases, but it is relatively openstack-agnostic15:35
ttxThey are interested in making the tool more visible to OpenStack users by placing it under OpenStack governance15:35
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ttxThere are multiple ways to get there15:36
ttx- We could just host it under the Large Scale SIG15:36
ttx...but it's not really large scale specific15:36
ttx- We could leverage the https://opendev.org/openstack/osops common repository (owned by the "Operation Docs and Tooling" SIG)15:36
ttx...but that SIG and repository are not very active/visible, so it's unclear that would be a win15:36
ttx- We could make it its own smallish project on the "Operations tooling" side of the OpenStack map15:36
ttx...but a full project team may be overkill as the tool is mostly feature-complete15:37
ttxWhat would be the TC's recommendation for them to follow?15:37
ttxPlacing it under OpenStack governance involves relicensing it under Apache-2, so I feel like we should not ask them to move/relicense if that does not really increase the tool visibility.15:37
mnaserthe difference between this and the built-in openstack tools is that this archives things in another db, right?15:38
ttxalso works for any project, iiuc15:38
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mnaseri mean, a sig can have deliverables15:39
ttx(which raises the other alternative solution: keep it where it is because it's actually not that useful)15:39
dansmitheither they relicense and get the visibility or don't right?15:39
dansmithisn't apache license a requirement for openstack?15:39
mnaseransible-sig publishes the openstack collections15:39
fungiapache license is a loose requirement for deliverables shipped as a part of openstack15:39
mnaserthey are not an official deliverable of openstack15:39
fungiwe have a number of exceptions documented15:39
ttxdansmith: yes it is. They are happy to relicense. but if it's to end up in a dark corner of OSops, that might not be worth the pain15:39
dansmithack15:40
mnaserand im pretty sure because of legacy reasons, openstack collections werent apache 215:40
dansmithI guess if it's not a deliverable per se, maybe the license requirement isn't a thing?15:40
fungi#link https://governance.openstack.org/tc/reference/licensing.html Licensing requirements15:40
belmoreirafor me the main question is to have a visible "place" in the community were ops can share their tools15:40
dansmithI'm also not sure how much the "being under the big tent umbrella awning" or whatever really increases visibility anymore, but..15:40
ttxif it's a SIG thing, does not have to be apache-2. But relicensing is not really the issue15:40
ttxI'm reulctant to encourage them to move in if it does not really increase visibility15:41
mnasersomething i will openly admit15:41
mnaserpeople don't like gerrit15:42
ttxbelmoreira: would you say OSops is such a place? Can anyone name one tool that is there?15:42
mnaserprojects will _actually_ get less contributions if they are on gerrit.15:42
ricolinttx how's large scale SIG feel about it if we end up put it under large scale SIG?15:42
fungipeople don't like lots of tools. some people also don't like github, or gitlab, or bitbucket, or...15:42
ttxThe people at OVH are happy to place it under Gerrit fwiw15:42
* dansmith hates github15:42
dansmiththere, I said it15:42
mnasersame.15:42
mnaserbut we're a minority :)15:42
belmoreiraif we have a light weight project that can have releases, like other projects, it would have a lot of visibility15:43
ttxdansmith: I still don;t understand how to use it properly, and when I ask, I realize nobody else uses it properly15:43
ricolindansmith, you're not alone there:)15:43
mnaserif they don't mind it being under gerrit, then i don't see why they can't have it as a repo for their project15:43
dansmithttx: that's mostly what I hate about it.. encourages bad behavior, like "here are 23 commits that finally end up with all the typos fixed, kthx"15:43
ttxanyway, that's a tangent. I guess the rael question is, do y'all think OSops is going to be back ni fashion15:44
ttxin*15:44
fungii'm not sold on the visibility argument, i'll admit. i think the reasons for becoming an official deliverable would need to be for something more than just increased visibility to make it worthwhile (we can't guarantee increased visibility/adoption)15:44
dansmithfungi: that's my feeling, stated above15:44
ttxif not, would you entertain OSarchiver to be a full project/openstack deliverable, or is it overkill15:44
ttxif not, I guess that leaves the Large Scale SIG hosting solution15:45
mnaserttx: we were doing some stuff here.. https://opendev.org/vexxhost/openstack-tools -- i think the hardest thing about osops is we all do things differently and velocity can slow things down.  i would maybe suggest osarchiver to be a sig deliverable -- https://opendev.org/openstack/governance/src/branch/master/reference/sigs-repos.yaml15:45
ttxor leave it where it is and link to it where we can15:45
mnaserhosting under large scale sig would be my vote tbh15:45
ttxmnaser: maybe all we need is some doc page that points to tools15:45
ttxwherever they are hosted15:45
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ttxand promote THAT instead15:45
fungii don't think it's overkill to make a project team for something like that, but the team responsible for the software would need to make the judgement call there as to whether it's worthwhile *for them*15:45
mnaserttx: i think that would be a lot more successful instead of a centralized repo15:46
ttxright, the overhead of common repository governance is just not worth it15:46
ttxSo the trick is to find a good place to document external tools15:47
mnaserif they want to take advantage of gerrit + opendev + ci access, move it into the sig, if none of that interests them, it can stay at github, and we can point some osops 'tools' page to include them15:47
ttxor SIG-maintained tools15:47
ttxany suggestion on where we could document those? I guess we could have a page on the openstack website, if all else fails15:48
ttxnot sure our official docs would work a lot better15:48
mnasermaybe the osops repo can have doc/ added to it15:48
ricolinttx I think I agree on to provide docs and visibility at this stage will be more important than to put it all in most reason place15:48
mnaserand we can publish that there and point to it from the openstack website15:48
ttxI think OSops is over-complex in a world where repos are cheap15:48
mnaseri just prefer any form of code review over wiki15:49
gmannwe can add link in openstack map too as 'external tools which can be useful'15:49
ricolinan deep dive article might be some good option too:)15:50
ttxOK, so how about... for OSarchiver it can stay where it is or get hosted under Large Scale SIG. We list that tool (and others) on some page, ideally maintained by the Operations Docs/Tooling SIG15:50
ttxThen link to that page from openstack.org15:50
mnaseri like that15:50
jungleboyjMakes sense.15:51
ttxOK, I'll check with teh Ops tooling/Docs SIG if maintaining such page works for them. It's probably a better use of time that administering OSops15:51
mnaserttx: i think maybe we can keep this agenda item for next week to see where things are with this in terms of your final idea15:52
ttxand it can still self-reference OSops tools15:52
ttxSure, I'll try to be around next week as well.15:52
ttxThanks everyone!15:52
mnaserthanks for bringing this up15:52
mnaser#topic open reviews15:53
*** openstack changes topic to "open reviews (Meeting topic: tc)"15:53
mnaseri think https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/governance/+/770616 can merge15:54
mnaserwe need a follow up patch to mv it to the cycle goal15:54
mnaserchecking in on the other patches15:55
mnaser#link https://review.opendev.org/q/projects:openstack/governance+is:open15:55
mnaserok great, everything can land15:57
mnaserso we just have the monasca stuff15:57
gmann+115:57
mnaserand we'll be fully cleared out on that15:57
mnaseranything else? :)15:58
gmannnothing from me.15:58
jungleboyjNothing from me.15:59
mnasergreat15:59
mnaserthanks all!!!15:59
mnaser#endmeeting15:59
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Technical Committee office hours: Tuesdays at 09:00 UTC, Wednesdays at 01:00 UTC, and Thursdays at 15:00 UTC | https://governance.openstack.org/tc/ | channel logs http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/irclogs/%23openstack-tc/"15:59
openstackMeeting ended Thu Feb 18 15:59:45 2021 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)15:59
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2021/tc.2021-02-18-15.01.html15:59
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2021/tc.2021-02-18-15.01.txt15:59
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2021/tc.2021-02-18-15.01.log.html15:59
jungleboyjThank you!15:59
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gmannthanks16:00
ricolinmnaser, thanks16:00
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openstackgerritMerged openstack/governance master: Retire tempest-horizon  https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/governance/+/77437916:14
openstackgerritMerged openstack/governance master: Add assert:supports-api-interoperability to cinder  https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/governance/+/77368416:23
openstackgerritMerged openstack/governance master: Add assert:supports-api-interoperability tag to neutron  https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/governance/+/77309016:23
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jrollfor visibility/transparency - I'd like to give up my admin access to github.com/openstack. I poked mnaser and he suggested adding him while he works on a better way to manage that access18:53
jrollso I'm doing that18:53
mnaser^ i'm going to work on openstack/project-config changes to manage those records via ansible18:55
gmann+118:55
fungicool, integrate them with the bits which add/remove repos from the org i guess?19:01
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mnaserfungi: yeah!  i'm trying to see if there's something that can manage access for the org users19:23
fungittx wrote most of that, i think, so may be able to answer questions if you can't figure out what's already there19:34
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