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| openstackgerrit | Zane Bitter proposed openstack/governance master: Clarify wording of Python update resolution https://review.openstack.org/621461 | 01:37 |
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| openstackgerrit | Ghanshyam Mann proposed openstack/governance master: Add Version Based Feature Discovery in Technical Vision https://review.openstack.org/621516 | 11:49 |
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| * TheJulia wipes sleep from her eyes | 13:16 | |
| fungi | early indeed over on your end of this rock | 13:25 |
| fungi | we have a meeting in ~30 minutes right? | 13:26 |
| TheJulia | yup | 13:28 |
| TheJulia | I would say it is more concretish to me... but that is just my end of the rock | 13:28 |
| fungi | concretions are rocks too! | 13:29 |
| * cdent finds coffee | 13:48 | |
| TheJulia | They are indeed, and they get harder as time goes on with no external forces being applied | 13:54 |
| * TheJulia hears rain in the desert | 13:59 | |
| dhellmann | tc-members: meeting time | 14:00 |
| TheJulia | o/ | 14:00 |
| dhellmann | #startmeeting tc | 14:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Thu Dec 6 14:00:16 2018 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is dhellmann. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 14:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 14:00 |
| TheJulia | \o | 14:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: tc)" | 14:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'tc' | 14:00 |
| dhellmann | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-discuss/2018-December/000467.html agenda for this meeting | 14:00 |
| gmann | o/ | 14:00 |
| dhellmann | #topic roll call | 14:00 |
| dhellmann | tc-members, please indicate if you are present for the logs | 14:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "roll call (Meeting topic: tc)" | 14:00 | |
| cdent | o/ | 14:00 |
| dims | o/ | 14:00 |
| fungi | howdy | 14:00 |
| gmann | o/ | 14:00 |
| TheJulia | Good morning | 14:01 |
| dhellmann | I count 6 of us. I know smcginnis, ttx, evrardjp, and zaneb all said they would miss today | 14:01 |
| TheJulia | Do we wait for one more to have a majority? | 14:02 |
| dhellmann | we're not voting on anything, so I don't think we need to worry about quorum rules | 14:02 |
| dhellmann | we're looking for mugsie, lbragstad , and mnaser | 14:03 |
| * mugsie is on the way, just walking back to a computer | 14:03 | |
| dhellmann | very good | 14:03 |
| fungi | you, sir, need a wearable computer | 14:03 |
| dhellmann | let's go ahead with some old business then | 14:03 |
| dhellmann | #topic dhellmann complete liaison assignments using the random generator | 14:03 |
| dhellmann | #info I have updated the team liaisons in the wiki. Please review the list of projects to which you are assigned. | 14:03 |
| dhellmann | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/OpenStack_health_tracker#Project_Teams | 14:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "dhellmann complete liaison assignments using the random generator (Meeting topic: tc)" | 14:03 | |
| dhellmann | does anyone have questions or comments about the health-check process for this cycle? | 14:04 |
| TheJulia | I do not. | 14:04 |
| gmann | nothing from me | 14:05 |
| dhellmann | taking (mostly) silence as a no, and moving on | 14:05 |
| cdent | only to comment that since summit, I've not had a chance to do much checking (I did do some there) | 14:05 |
| fungi | nope. i was planning to try to initiate mine via the new mailing list but wanted to make sure the old lists were closed down first so that the teams in question are more likely to be subscribed. as of two days ago that's done so i have no other reasons to procrastinate | 14:05 |
| * dhellmann hasn't started, yet, either | 14:05 | |
| * mugsie needs to start as well | 14:05 | |
| TheJulia | nor have I started, time is always an issue :| | 14:05 |
| * cdent feels less bad, now | 14:05 | |
| dhellmann | #topic tc-members review the chair duties document | 14:05 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "tc-members review the chair duties document (Meeting topic: tc)" | 14:06 | |
| cdent | :) | 14:06 |
| dhellmann | #info The draft document has been merged and is now available in the governance repo as CHAIR.rst. | 14:06 |
| dhellmann | #link http://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack/governance/tree/CHAIR.rst | 14:06 |
| dhellmann | Are there any remaining questions about the list of chair duties? There weren't a lot of comments about missing or confusing items in the review itself, but that may need to wait for the next chair to try to interpret what I wrote. :-) | 14:06 |
| cdent | the current list seems pretty good and complete | 14:06 |
| cdent | and doesn't over-reach | 14:07 |
| fungi | i bet it's awesome, i just need to finish reading it ;) | 14:07 |
| dhellmann | heh | 14:07 |
| gmann | yeah that was good and having list clear help new chair. thanks dhellmann | 14:07 |
| TheJulia | It seems good, I think under joint leadership section a note should likely be made that the board should be updated on current events/status and that it is not a topic discussion time. | 14:07 |
| mugsie | it seems pretty complete - the only worry would be the workload, but that would have to something someone would take in to account when running | 14:07 |
| dhellmann | yeah, and I expect some things could be delegated, too | 14:08 |
| dhellmann | TheJulia : that may be worth noting, although it may also change from meeting to meeting as expectations change | 14:08 |
| mugsie | yeah - i think those meetings are going to be a lot more fluid going forward | 14:09 |
| TheJulia | I concur it can change, which is kind of why I felt like it should be a note, some status needs to be conveyed as our context because otherwise our discussions would be in two separate contexties | 14:09 |
| dhellmann | if there's nothing else, we can move on to some of our active initiatives | 14:10 |
| dhellmann | #topic keeping up with python 3 releases | 14:10 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "keeping up with python 3 releases (Meeting topic: tc)" | 14:10 | |
| dhellmann | We are ready to approve zaneb's resolution for a process for tracking python 3 versions. | 14:10 |
| dhellmann | #link https://review.openstack.org/613145 | 14:10 |
| dhellmann | There is one wording update that we should prepare for approval as well. | 14:11 |
| dhellmann | #link https://review.openstack.org/621461 | 14:11 |
| dhellmann | The next step will be to approve Sean's patch describing the runtimes supported for Stein. | 14:11 |
| dhellmann | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/611080/ | 14:11 |
| dhellmann | I would like for us to complete this work over the next week. | 14:11 |
| dhellmann | Are we ready to vote on all of those items, or do we need additional changes? | 14:11 |
| cdent | I haven't checked in the last 12 hours, but just prior to that there were some clarifications desired | 14:11 |
| fungi | i feel like i'm ready to vote, was mostly waiting to see where those conversations ended up first | 14:12 |
| * TheJulia looks to see why one has a -1 now | 14:12 | |
| * gmann will review tomorrow | 14:12 | |
| dhellmann | that -1 seems to apply to the stein patch but the comment was left on the resolution | 14:14 |
| mugsie | the py3 (start of the chain) may cause testing matrixes to balloon - specifically the "Each Python 3 version that was still used in any integration tests at the beginning of the development cycle" line | 14:14 |
| mnaser | Sorry for missing the meeting. I’ve had a personal thing come up this morning. | 14:14 |
| mugsie | yeah, the -1 is that this is not how we did it for the stein cycle, which I think is OK | 14:15 |
| dhellmann | mnaser: no worries, I hope everything is ok | 14:15 |
| TheJulia | concur, I think we can proceed as zane did also follow-up on wording in the same paragraph | 14:15 |
| dhellmann | ok, please vote and/or comment accordingly so we can see where everyone stands | 14:15 |
| mnaser | dhellmann: it is all good now. A friend somehow disappeared overnight but we’ve just managed to find them. Keep your phones charged! | 14:15 |
| dhellmann | when folks wait to vote until the conversation is "done" it tends to make the process drag on | 14:16 |
| dhellmann | mnaser : whew! | 14:16 |
| dhellmann | ok, moving on then | 14:16 |
| dhellmann | we also have a few items of follow-up from the Berlin Forum sessions | 14:16 |
| dhellmann | #topic Vision for OpenStack clouds | 14:16 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Vision for OpenStack clouds (Meeting topic: tc)" | 14:17 | |
| dhellmann | We approved the basic vision at the forum. | 14:17 |
| dhellmann | #link Vision for OpenStack Clouds https://governance.openstack.org/tc/reference/technical-vision.html | 14:17 |
| dhellmann | #link forum session notes http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-discuss/2018-December/000431.html | 14:17 |
| dhellmann | At the same time, there were several suggestions for updates. Are all of those filed as patches? | 14:17 |
| dhellmann | What is our goal for having those reviewed? | 14:17 |
| fungi | i have one outstanding on my to do list i'm hoping to get pushed up later today | 14:17 |
| fungi | but it should be a brief followup amendment | 14:18 |
| mugsie | I only see one follow up so far? | 14:18 |
| fungi | i'm ready to +1 the current state regardless | 14:18 |
| dhellmann | would it be reasonable to set a goal of having those reviewed and done by our next meeting in January? | 14:18 |
| fungi | that sounds reasonable | 14:18 |
| gmann | i pushed one - https://review.openstack.org/#/c/621516/ | 14:18 |
| dhellmann | that's a long time, but with the holiday period in there... | 14:18 |
| gmann | cdent: ^^ updated with few more clarification | 14:18 |
| dhellmann | gmann : ack, thanks for that link | 14:19 |
| mugsie | yeah, that seems OK, with the holiday period | 14:19 |
| cdent | thanks gmann | 14:19 |
| TheJulia | holidays are going to begin to cause people to disappear starting as early as next week, so we should "try" to wrap it up in the next week otherwise it may languish in review for a while | 14:19 |
| dhellmann | #info our goal is to have all updates to the vision from the discussion at the forum reviewed and approved by the next meeting in january | 14:19 |
| mugsie | does mordred own the drafting of one, or did I miss the SDK change? | 14:19 |
| mugsie | sorry s/SDK/region/ | 14:20 |
| TheJulia | mugsie: I interpretted it as mordred owning that, but it would likely be good to follow-up with him | 14:20 |
| dhellmann | I was hoping zaneb would be here today to summarize that, but yes I think there's one on regions yet to be written | 14:20 |
| dhellmann | is there anything else to talk about on the technical vision? | 14:21 |
| dhellmann | right, moving on again then | 14:21 |
| dhellmann | #topic Train cycle goals | 14:21 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Train cycle goals (Meeting topic: tc)" | 14:21 | |
| dhellmann | I posted my summary of the forum session. | 14:22 |
| dhellmann | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-discuss/2018-November/000055.html | 14:22 |
| dhellmann | Each of the candidate goals have work to be done before they could be selected, so we will | 14:22 |
| dhellmann | need to work with the sponsors and champions to see where enough | 14:22 |
| dhellmann | progress is made to let us choose from among the proposals. | 14:22 |
| mugsie | I see I proposed a goal :/ | 14:22 |
| dhellmann | #info lbragstad and evrardjp have agreed to lead the selection process for the Train goals. | 14:22 |
| TheJulia | Zane also started another discussion if memory serves | 14:22 |
| TheJulia | oh, no it was lance | 14:22 |
| dhellmann | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-discuss/2018-December/000558.html | 14:22 |
| dhellmann | yep, thanks, I forgot to include that one in my notes | 14:23 |
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| dhellmann | the thing that strikes me is that all of the suggested goals have a lot of pre-work to do | 14:23 |
| mnaser | We should probably think about having one or two projects trial a goal first | 14:24 |
| TheJulia | My whole point in reply was that we need to better define what each item entails and the scope or stepping of each before we try and make a decision | 14:24 |
| mugsie | yeah. | 14:24 |
| mnaser | Just to see what the work looks like | 14:24 |
| dhellmann | and that's going to make it hard to ensure we have even 1 of them ready to go | 14:24 |
| mugsie | Yeah, the way we had nova's check in advance helped a lot this year | 14:25 |
| dhellmann | because I'm not sure it's really clear to the proposers that we're expecting them to do that work | 14:25 |
| mnaser | That way we avoid being in a situation where we don’t have a clear path to accomplish the goal (avoiding the historic going back and forth). But that’s just addition to actually picking the goals | 14:25 |
| dhellmann | mnaser : yes, I think that fits into the "pre-work needed" category | 14:25 |
| gmann | may be we can divide the osc one into 2 part with 2 cycle goal but it need volunteers to do work.. | 14:25 |
| fungi | though we've had prior goals where it got implemented in a couple of projects but once we asked more projects to do the same we got pushback because of the variety of implementations | 14:26 |
| dhellmann | gmann : yes, there were at least 3 separate phases for the OSC goal | 14:26 |
| fungi | i agree having a couple of projects try to implement first could help, but it won't entirely solve that problem | 14:26 |
| dhellmann | and that step seems unnecessary with the OSC goal, for example | 14:26 |
| gmann | yeah and till we do not make them goal all these part, it is stuck always | 14:26 |
| mugsie | yeah, if we assume all projects look like $THING, it can make it hard to implement elsewhere | 14:27 |
| mnaser | I think we should start prioritizing the goal selection process, or even see if there’s other ones to seek out for now if those seem too big | 14:27 |
| dhellmann | so it's useful to have a couple of projects try something new, but not necessary all the time | 14:27 |
| TheJulia | I think it is going to depend on the effort and the desired end state | 14:27 |
| dhellmann | what specific guidance would you give lbragstad and evrardjp on that? | 14:28 |
| mnaser | Could this be something that we want to reach the community out with via the foundations new newsletter? | 14:28 |
| mugsie | yeah - things like passing request-id may be able to be done in say oslo.context, and then small tweaks in projects, but most of them are pretty big | 14:28 |
| gmann | i think OSC should be alone goal for that cycle otherwise it might be hard to drive other goal along with that | 14:28 |
| mnaser | I feel like we might get more feedback from a wider audience than the usual one that’s in the mailing list | 14:28 |
| dhellmann | sure, going for broader input is all part of the process | 14:28 |
| mugsie | healthcheck needs someone to write the framework and tests for oslo.db / messaging, but should be low impact for the projects | 14:29 |
| TheJulia | I think it would help to make it more relatable, even if it is just "this is being discussed in three phases, and roughly entails x,y,z" Otherwise you would have to have been present in the room for the discussion to understand how it might impat you | 14:29 |
| TheJulia | impact | 14:29 |
| dhellmann | do you think we need new ideas now? or do we need to focus on refining these ideas we have? | 14:29 |
| mnaser | dhellmann: I think that’s the question we should discuss. It doesn’t seem like everyone is super convinced at the current list of ideas and how feasible it might be | 14:29 |
| TheJulia | I think we should always be open to new ideas, but we should clearly continuously refine | 14:29 |
| mugsie | I think if we cannot get people to sign up to do the work for these new goals, we need new ones | 14:29 |
| dhellmann | mugsie : that's a pretty clear way to filter the list :-) | 14:30 |
| mugsie | (for the record, I would love healthchecks, but I didn't propose it :) - I know I will not be able to ) | 14:30 |
| * mugsie wasn't even in the room at the time these were discussed :) | 14:31 | |
| dhellmann | I think your name came up because of past interest | 14:31 |
| mugsie | yeah - possibly aspiers or someone from self-healing sig might be able to run with it | 14:31 |
| cdent | the goal situation has a history of needing a super strong champion, from the outset. in the current cycle mriedem and dhellmann have demonstrated a lot of ownership and leadership | 14:31 |
| cdent | if we don't have that, we're kinda stuck | 14:31 |
| cdent | so maybe instead of seeking out goals, we need to seek out people | 14:32 |
| cdent | and let them choose a goal :) | 14:32 |
| mugsie | cdent: ++ | 14:32 |
| dhellmann | I think aspiers was in the room, so that may have been how that one came up | 14:32 |
| TheJulia | cdent: that is a really good point | 14:32 |
| gmann | cdent: true | 14:32 |
| * aspiers wakes up | 14:32 | |
| cdent | I admit that I don't like that this is the case. I think it should be easier to orchestrate in a more consensual way, but... pudding | 14:33 |
| TheJulia | cdent: I also suspect many of us who are entrenched have goals and desires that are hyper focused or that might not be practical or reasonable across the community, where as if someone who wants to get involved from the outside wants magical-thing-z to be a thing across the board, then they are going to be much more motiated to engage | 14:33 |
| cdent | TheJulia: yes | 14:33 |
| aspiers | I'm definitely not a super strong champion but I would love to see health checks finally implemented across many projects, so maybe I can help | 14:33 |
| TheJulia | maybe a half and half effort, or a thought for Train | 14:34 |
| dhellmann | perhaps that makes the "hard delete resources" suggestion more likely to be successful, since there were folks willing to work on that | 14:34 |
| TheJulia | err | 14:34 |
| TheJulia | post train | 14:34 |
| fungi | champions need not be herculean | 14:34 |
| cdent | no, but they need to be verbose and committed | 14:34 |
| cdent | (at least thus far) | 14:34 |
| fungi | aspiers seems like a verbose and committed individual to me ;) | 14:35 |
| aspiers | I can talk to my manager about the idea of taking this onto my plate | 14:35 |
| TheJulia | and even if they are herculean, I doubt they could carry two earths | 14:35 |
| aspiers | fungi: hah thanks, I'm good at pretending at least ;-) | 14:35 |
| fungi | TheJulia: that sounds more atlassian, but i concur | 14:36 |
| * dhellmann points out the double meaning behind "goal champions need to be committed" | 14:36 | |
| TheJulia | fungi: I think there was a trick somewhere along the way in mythology | 14:36 |
| * cdent sends dhellmann home | 14:36 | |
| TheJulia | lol | 14:37 |
| aspiers | X-D | 14:37 |
| TheJulia | I sense we can move on for now :) | 14:37 |
| fungi | yes please ;) | 14:37 |
| dhellmann | so, it sounds like our advice for evrardjp and lbragstad is to focus on finding goals with champions ready to do the work | 14:37 |
| mugsie | dhellmann: ++ | 14:37 |
| dhellmann | or at least drive the work | 14:37 |
| cdent | drive | 14:37 |
| fungi | agreed | 14:37 |
| TheJulia | dhellmann: and be open to other possibilities I think | 14:37 |
| dhellmann | other possibilities for what? | 14:38 |
| mugsie | yeah, don;t limit ourselves to the 3 we have if we people willing to do the work | 14:38 |
| dhellmann | oh, yeah, we have a long backlog still | 14:38 |
| mugsie | on other ones (that are resonable) | 14:38 |
| fungi | other possible goals, i assume | 14:38 |
| TheJulia | if they find a champion that has a different take, that we are not prescribing or dictating, but otherwise enabling and expressing desire | 14:38 |
| dhellmann | ok | 14:38 |
| dhellmann | I had 1 more topic on the agenda for today then | 14:39 |
| dhellmann | #topic Other TC outcomes from Forum | 14:39 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Other TC outcomes from Forum (Meeting topic: tc)" | 14:39 | |
| dhellmann | We had several other forum sessions, and should make sure we have a good list of any promised actions that came from those discussions. | 14:39 |
| dhellmann | do we have any sessions for which we haven't had a summary posted, yet? | 14:39 |
| TheJulia | I'm still working on the community outreach session summary, but I _think_ all the action items have already been raised and initiated | 14:40 |
| dhellmann | excellent | 14:40 |
| fungi | i think i owe a summary of the opendev session | 14:40 |
| TheJulia | I should have that done sometime this morning, and will verify and follow-up on that | 14:40 |
| TheJulia | After I go back to sleep for an hour or so | 14:41 |
| dhellmann | I have not gone through the summaries to copy action items onto a central list. Should we do that? Are there any that we need to be tracking as a group? | 14:41 |
| dhellmann | I'm going to take that as a "no" then :-) | 14:42 |
| TheJulia | I feel like sending a summary is more an action of trying to convey context and remind others. Creating central lists might be good... at the same time I can see a case where it might be a bad idea | 14:42 |
| gmann | i remember mnaser idea of checking with community about what TC should or should not do | 14:43 |
| gmann | that might be good to track and work as group based on feedback | 14:43 |
| mnaser | I think I might have picked it up, I’m slowly unpacking my berlin baggage :) | 14:43 |
| dhellmann | that applies to the work on the "role of the TC" right? https://review.openstack.org/622400 | 14:43 |
| TheJulia | gmann: Indeed... I guess that kind of shifts the needle for me into that we need a list of future relavent items, but maybe not all items | 14:43 |
| mnaser | I wanted to bring up that review to the community soon | 14:44 |
| mnaser | Once we had a good idea of what it looks like | 14:44 |
| dhellmann | yeah, it's probably worth having the tc do a pass for wording and content before we advertise it | 14:44 |
| cdent | My understanding was that we were goig to give it a few days to get review from tc people, and then make a wider "Hey, look!" | 14:44 |
| cdent | jinz | 14:45 |
| cdent | jinx, even | 14:45 |
| dhellmann | ok, so everyone go review that patch :-) | 14:45 |
| dhellmann | did any other big items come up that we need to be tracking at the tc level? I wasn't in all of the sessions, so I may have missed some items. | 14:46 |
| TheJulia | I concur | 14:46 |
| gmann | i check this as one of item in my health check of project about "what they except TC should do more for them" but no feedback yet | 14:46 |
| dhellmann | and I mean "at the tc level" as in on the agenda for this meeting, rather than on our individual todo lists | 14:46 |
| dhellmann | oh, that's an interesting question to have some answers to | 14:46 |
| cdent | not that I recall. It all seeed quite chill. | 14:46 |
| cdent | seemed | 14:47 |
| cdent | (except for the walks to the far side of the world) | 14:47 |
| mugsie | yeah - I don;t remember anything major | 14:47 |
| TheJulia | There is one from the community outreach regarding meetings and encouraging agendas and the like. I feel like that same discussion came up in another session too | 14:47 |
| dhellmann | did I include enough context in the agenda email I sent out for this meeting? | 14:47 |
| TheJulia | No volunteer but I think that was going to be something that I would go find the appropriate text and amend it | 14:47 |
| TheJulia | dhellmann: meaning for the community at large, not just for the tc | 14:48 |
| mnaser | I liked the idea of doing a “how working with upstream is beneficial” | 14:48 |
| dhellmann | yeah, I'm not sure what the action was there, so I was just asking for feedback on my agenda | 14:48 |
| TheJulia | oh, yes, you provided great context in your agenda | 14:48 |
| mugsie | dhellmann: for this meeting, I think so. I was able to flick through it this morning, and read up on the topics | 14:49 |
| TheJulia | I wish it was not in an email, but I'll live :) | 14:49 |
| dhellmann | mnaser : yeah, that's a good one to remember. I think we talked about trying to make that a keynote theme. | 14:49 |
| gmann | dhellmann: yeah. it was very clear | 14:49 |
| mnaser | I don’t think we got anything actionable out of it (and probably still way too early for Denver) | 14:49 |
| cdent | TheJulia: where do you want it? | 14:49 |
| dhellmann | TheJulia : given the concern that we not get too deep into community issues, I want to differentiate between suggestions on the wiki page and the official agenda | 14:50 |
| dhellmann | but I'm open to suggestions for how better to do that | 14:50 |
| fungi | on the meetings overhaul idea, the infra team did pick up the suggestion and incorporate it (having a cut-off for agenda additions so people could decide whether it was worth attending a particular meeting) | 14:50 |
| TheJulia | I just find email a pain, but that is just me. I recognize I'm a bit of an oddball in that regard | 14:50 |
| TheJulia | pages I can go load tend to have less clutter, things that can distract me from going and reading, but again, this is more a comment coming from how I read and interpret information | 14:51 |
| * TheJulia admits she is an oddball and will just deal with it | 14:51 | |
| dhellmann | I tend for forward emails I need to keep handy into evernote myself | 14:51 |
| TheJulia | That is not a bad idea | 14:52 |
| dhellmann | especially if there's an action I need to take based on the content | 14:52 |
| * mugsie takes note of that idea | 14:52 | |
| dhellmann | if we're going to trade productivity tips I think we're probably done with the meeting :-) | 14:52 |
| dhellmann | #topic next meeting | 14:53 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "next meeting (Meeting topic: tc)" | 14:53 | |
| dhellmann | #info the next TC meeting will be 3 January 2019 1400 UTC in #openstack-tc | 14:53 |
| dhellmann | I assume that date is OK for everyone? | 14:53 |
| cdent | is for me | 14:53 |
| TheJulia | works for me | 14:53 |
| mugsie | works for me | 14:53 |
| TheJulia | too early in the year to be metal-tubing | 14:53 |
| mugsie | you hope | 14:54 |
| gmann | i might be on holiday that time, first week of jan | 14:54 |
| lbragstad | will an invite be sent out? | 14:54 |
| dhellmann | if we find that we have a large group unable to make it, we can talk about skipping | 14:54 |
| TheJulia | mugsie: :( | 14:54 |
| dhellmann | lbragstad : it's on eavesdrop | 14:54 |
| dhellmann | #link http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/#Technical_Committee_Meeting | 14:54 |
| mnaser | It’s okay for me. I wanted to ask if we wanted to have an adhoc meeting to discuss and figure out goals too. | 14:54 |
| mnaser | Just to get some traction going | 14:55 |
| dhellmann | I expect we will have many discussions about goals | 14:55 |
| * lbragstad must have been creating them manually - oops | 14:55 | |
| dhellmann | I'll leave that to lbragstad and evrardjp to organize | 14:55 |
| TheJulia | mnaser: I think it might be a good idea, I'm just worried about the time of the year | 14:55 |
| mnaser | Let’s defer that to the next meeting | 14:55 |
| fungi | i'll be around for january 3, so sounds fine | 14:55 |
| dhellmann | If you have suggestions for topics for the next meeting, please add them to the wiki at https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/TechnicalCommittee#Agenda_Suggestions | 14:55 |
| mugsie | yeah, I think the 3rd might be the soonest we can expect a meeting from now | 14:55 |
| TheJulia | Thanks dhellmann! | 14:55 |
| dhellmann | Thank you, everyone! | 14:55 |
| mnaser | Thanks douggg! | 14:55 |
| gmann | thanks dhellmann | 14:56 |
| dhellmann | #endmeeting | 14:56 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Technical Committee office hours: Tuesdays at 09:00 UTC, Wednesdays at 01:00 UTC, and Thursdays at 15:00 UTC | https://governance.openstack.org/tc/ | channel logs http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/irclogs/%23openstack-tc/" | 14:56 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Thu Dec 6 14:56:12 2018 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 14:56 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2018/tc.2018-12-06-14.00.html | 14:56 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2018/tc.2018-12-06-14.00.txt | 14:56 |
| fungi | thanks for chairing (the meeting _and_ the tc) dhellmann! | 14:56 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2018/tc.2018-12-06-14.00.log.html | 14:56 |
| mugsie | o/ | 14:56 |
| dhellmann | and now we have a few minutes reprieve before office hours | 14:56 |
| * dhellmann turns on the intermission music | 14:56 | |
| * fungi imagines an early 20th century "intermission" card on projection | 14:57 | |
| tosky | and then "A long long time ago in a channel far, far away..." | 14:58 |
| tosky | *fanfare* | 15:00 |
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| fungi | and we're back! | 15:01 |
| fungi | welcome one and all to tc office hour #3 for the week | 15:01 |
| cdent | o/ | 15:04 |
| dhellmann | o/ | 15:05 |
| AlanClark | Hey fungi, confusion on my part. I thought the TC was going to do a TC meeting at this hour/day. So when is the TC meeting? | 15:05 |
| ttx | it should be now | 15:06 |
| ttx | no? | 15:06 |
| dhellmann | AlanClark : we just wrapped up the meeting, it started an hour ago | 15:06 |
| gmann | o/ | 15:06 |
| dhellmann | 1400 UTC | 15:06 |
| ttx | I had it at 1500utc too | 15:06 |
| ttx | anyway, could not have attended due to collision with my panel | 15:06 |
| dhellmann | http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/#Technical_Committee_Meeting | 15:06 |
| fungi | 1500z is office hour, 1400z is meeting hour | 15:06 |
| AlanClark | thanks | 15:06 |
| ttx | Ah! Here is my confusion | 15:06 |
| dhellmann | the logs from today are at http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2018/tc.2018-12-06-14.00.log.html | 15:07 |
| ttx | dhellmann: My only comment was on the chair doc -- you mention weekly ML posts there, but lately there haven't been much, so I was wondering if we wanted to change the frequency | 15:08 |
| ttx | or question their utility | 15:08 |
| dhellmann | yeah, I've been swamped and then sick so missed a few | 15:08 |
| dhellmann | I do still have it on my list to try to catch up this week | 15:08 |
| ttx | ok, but generally we should keep using them (and mention them in the chair doc) | 15:08 |
| dhellmann | although if folks don't find them useful I'm also happy to stop doing them | 15:08 |
| ttx | the weekly thing was to cover the lack of weekly sync point from when we did weekly meetings | 15:09 |
| ttx | So their utility should remain | 15:09 |
| dhellmann | yeah, that's what I thought | 15:09 |
| * ttx reads logs | 15:09 | |
| dhellmann | there was summit, then holiday, then illness, so I'm 3 weeks behind | 15:09 |
| fungi | people at the forum and elsewhere did mention finding those update e-mails useful, though perhaps with also resuming ~monthly meetings the meeting logs can stand in for some of that and i could see reducing the frequency of update e-mails as a result | 15:13 |
| dhellmann | tc-members: we could use one more review on https://review.openstack.org/622989 to streamline approving some of the release-management metadata updates | 15:13 |
| lbragstad | fyi - http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-discuss/2018-December/000676.html | 15:16 |
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| ttx | looks like the meeting went well ! Thanks dhellmann for chairing | 15:21 |
| AlanClark | I have a question for the TC w/ regard to 2019 leadership meetings | 15:22 |
| AlanClark | I have been drafting a set of 2019 board meeting dates for the board to approve at their next meeting | 15:24 |
| * cdent listens | 15:24 | |
| dhellmann | tc-members: ^^ | 15:24 |
| AlanClark | I would like to propose that we continue to hold joint leadership meetings at the Summits - same as we did this year | 15:25 |
| openstackgerrit | Merged openstack/governance master: Mark blazar-specs release-management: none https://review.openstack.org/620587 | 15:25 |
| lbragstad | will it be prior to the summit, just like this year, too? | 15:25 |
| openstackgerrit | Merged openstack/governance master: correct date comparison in check_review_status.py https://review.openstack.org/623000 | 15:26 |
| TheJulia | That seems reasonable to me, even if means another day | 15:26 |
| AlanClark | lbragstad: that's what I would propose. Same format - board mtg in the morning, joint mtg in the afternoon | 15:26 |
| AlanClark | Board tends to want to hold the board meeting prior to the Summit | 15:27 |
| dhellmann | I definitely think it's useful to hold those meetings | 15:27 |
| dhellmann | AlanClark : are you looking for specific feedback about scheduling those meetings? | 15:28 |
| lbragstad | personally, i got a lot out of the last one | 15:28 |
| dhellmann | or just letting us know to expect to continue having them? | 15:29 |
| cdent | day before summit is a good fit, I think | 15:29 |
| ttx | So much looking forward that 7-day long week | 15:29 |
| AlanClark | I just wanted to see if the TC feels we should continue with the mtgs. We can discuss mtg details/objectives later | 15:30 |
| gmann | +1, that meeting was good to know/learn for me. | 15:30 |
| TheJulia | ttx: your sarcasm is being transmitted into irc | 15:30 |
| gmann | day before summit works for me too, though i miss the OUI training for 1 day | 15:30 |
| dhellmann | AlanClark : I'm seeing only positive responses to the idea of continuing to meet | 15:30 |
| dhellmann | ttx: if only you knew someone who had influence over the event schedule | 15:30 |
| * lbragstad can only think of one hiccup - and that's if someone doesn't get approval for the summit but they plan on attending the PTG | 15:31 | |
| ttx | AlanClark: I think last time we stroke the right balance of information vs. discussion | 15:31 |
| dhellmann | lbragstad : that's a good point. we should make sure that TC members' managers understand the importance of the TC being present for the JLM, Forum, and PTG | 15:31 |
| ttx | TheJulia: damn! | 15:31 |
| lbragstad | dhellmann agreed | 15:32 |
| TheJulia | lbragstad: I think those that would need to be there have sufficient business case to gain a re-evaluation of such a decision. | 15:32 |
| fungi | AlanClark: yes, continuing the joint leadership meetings seems like a fine idea to me, thanks for asking! | 15:32 |
| ttx | lbragstad: At least the contributor discount cover both (I think) | 15:32 |
| dhellmann | ttx: when do those discount codes go out? | 15:33 |
| dhellmann | that came up yesterday | 15:33 |
| lbragstad | ttx oh? i thought there was some discussion the other day | 15:33 |
| ttx | fungi shall know | 15:33 |
| AlanClark | ok thanks. I'm pretty sure I'll have agreement from the board next week. | 15:33 |
| ttx | lbragstad: I can ask KendallW to post what the plan is | 15:33 |
| lbragstad | ttx that'd be great | 15:34 |
| fungi | ttx: you might think that, but i have no idea (i asked the people who decide those things as of yesterday) | 15:34 |
| fungi | i've already gotten several questions about contributor discounts and ptg attendee discounts over the past 24 hours | 15:35 |
| ttx | I know what the plan was, and it was supposed to cover both. Haven't been re-checking recently though | 15:35 |
| gmann | currently it is showing separate cost for both. we should post the plan before someone buy with separate cost:) | 15:36 |
| ttx | There is still a nominal price, which is basically what PTG cost last time in Denver | 15:38 |
| ttx | But contributor discount is actually only valid on the Summit+PTG combo | 15:39 |
| ttx | Kendall plans to send something really soon detailing the discount plan | 15:40 |
| * ttx needs to run to catch a train now | 15:41 | |
| gmann | ttx: thanks | 15:41 |
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| smcginnis | I Strongly agree in continuing the joint meeting. But wonder if it would be feasible to have it right before the PTG rather than right before the Summit. I'm guessing not, but just throwing the thought out there. | 15:58 |
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| cdent | smcginnis: is there any time gap between summit and ptg? | 15:59 |
| dhellmann | yeah, that would be a summit day the way things are scheduled now | 16:00 |
| smcginnis | cdent: Maybe the time gap while everyone is searching for lunch. | 16:00 |
| smcginnis | Sorry.. bitterness. :) | 16:00 |
| cdent | :) | 16:00 |
| smcginnis | But no, I don't believe so, so it would mean missing part of the Summit to do it that way. | 16:01 |
| smcginnis | That's why I don't think it would be feasible, but still wanted to state it anyway. | 16:01 |
| fungi | the "gap" would be wednesday night. who needs sleep? | 16:01 |
| smcginnis | There's usually a lack of that at Summits anyway. | 16:02 |
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| AlanClark | smcginnis - thanks for the suggestion. As a board we've discussed holding this mtg during the event. But to date haven't found anything viable. | 16:31 |
| smcginnis | AlanClark: Yeah, I would be afraid we would end up with another situation like Dublin. | 16:32 |
| smcginnis | Though if I had to pick missing a Summit day vs a PTG day, I would pick the Summit. | 16:32 |
| smcginnis | But still, logistical challenges all around. :) | 16:32 |
| AlanClark | yes no perfect answer | 16:34 |
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| openstackgerrit | Sean McGinnis proposed openstack/governance master: Explicitly declare Stein supported runtimes https://review.openstack.org/611080 | 17:18 |
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| fungi | over the past couple days since i closed the old mailing lists, people who sent 10+ messages to them in 2018 who have also subscribed to the new ml climbed from 60% to 62% | 18:59 |
| fungi | and we're up to 576 total subscribers on the new ml as of a moment ago when i checked | 19:00 |
| fungi | also, surprisingly, no complaints about the transition (so far at least) | 19:01 |
| clarkb | Thinking about the quality topic some more. I wonder if we could start tackling it with concrete tasks like "no deprecation warnings in logs" | 19:47 |
| clarkb | one thing I've noticed poking around in logs for failed jobs is that many of them | 19:47 |
| clarkb | er many of them are full of deprecation warnings | 19:47 |
| clarkb | these are super noisy and indicate we are relying on software that isn't really supported (need to use the supported stuff isntead) | 19:48 |
| dhellmann | that seems like a good initiative for someone to champion | 19:50 |
| smcginnis | clarkb: You mean "no deprecation warnings from dependencies in logs" right? We regularly need to deprecate things, but still have tests that need to cover some of those things in our code. | 19:52 |
| clarkb | smcginnis: I'm sure there is some nuance there, but no its more than that. Liek glance unittests use MoxStubout which is deprecated as used in glance tests. This means ~50% of the glance unittests logs are this warning over and over | 19:53 |
| clarkb | if I wanted to debug a failure in glance I have to wade through that. | 19:53 |
| clarkb | This isn't a warning in a dep, its glance | 19:53 |
| smcginnis | Yeah, it would be a very useful effort to get rid of things like that. | 19:54 |
| clarkb | other examples are the tempest py3 job complains about use_neutron and firewall_driver config options | 19:56 |
| clarkb | (thats actually relatively minimal, but if we clean that stuff up maybe we delete code which leads to fewer bugs which leads to happyness) | 19:57 |
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| mriedem | clarkb: heh https://review.openstack.org/#/c/579482/ | 20:26 |
| mriedem | it appears that mox3.MoxStubout is not py3 safe | 20:27 |
| * mriedem writes a warnings filter patch to ignore that | 20:30 | |
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| lbragstad | well - good news is that it looks like we have one prospective champion for the python-openstackclient work | 21:47 |
| lbragstad | http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-discuss/2018-December/000688.html | 21:48 |
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| mriedem | lbragstad: has there been any user sig input on those 3 goals? | 22:15 |
| mriedem | do we just ask mrhillsman to vote? | 22:15 |
| lbragstad | mriedem no that i'm aware of yet | 22:15 |
| mriedem | sounds like you need to reach out buddy! | 22:16 |
| mriedem | so let's say the goal is osc has parity up through apis available in mitaka, | 22:16 |
| mriedem | the project teams start submitting code to osc, | 22:16 |
| mriedem | do we expect the 1-1.5 osc cores to keep up with that? | 22:17 |
| mriedem | in denver when we talked about this in the nova room, and dean was there, we talked about pulling the compute stuff out into an osc plugin and then nova driving that, but there are (rightly so) concerns about doing that b/c osc could lose its consistency | 22:18 |
| mriedem | which is something i've had to ask dean about several times while reviewing osc-placement changes | 22:18 |
| * mrhillsman reads | 22:19 | |
| mriedem | i'd think at a minimum we'd want per-project review liaisons so that osc cores don't care about a change until they get a +1 from the project liaison first | 22:19 |
| lbragstad | yeah - that's a good point | 22:21 |
| mriedem | jesus mitaka was 3 years ago wasn't it | 22:22 |
| mriedem | nearly | 22:22 |
| mriedem | what have i done with my life... | 22:22 |
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| corvus | evrardjp: i noticed in https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/OpenStack_health_tracker#Project_Teams you used 2019 as the year several times. might be good to update that before it gets confusing. :) | 23:24 |
| corvus | evrardjp: also, hello from the past! :) | 23:25 |
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