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| fungi | tc-members and everyone else who cares: the weekly wednesday office hour is once again upon us | 01:00 |
|---|---|---|
| * lbragstad takes a seat | 01:01 | |
| fungi | come one, come all... we have at least two tc members on hand | 01:01 |
| gmann | o/ | 01:04 |
| fungi | three! | 01:04 |
| lbragstad | now it's a party | 01:04 |
| dims | o/ | 01:06 |
| smcginnis | Wow, I'm here for this one. | 01:06 |
| fungi | five! | 01:06 |
| fungi | wait, five is right out | 01:06 |
| smcginnis | Highest attended Tuesday night / Wednesday morning office hour, and not much going on. :) | 01:11 |
| fungi | yeah, i'm going to sleep as soon as it's over | 01:11 |
| smcginnis | You probably don't even need to wait that long. | 01:12 |
| * fungi isn't much of a night owl | 01:12 | |
| smcginnis | There was a time in my life where I would be awake until the sun started to come up. Now I usually get up before the sun. | 01:13 |
| smcginnis | Not sure I really like that switch, but... | 01:13 |
| fungi | yeah, i remember those times as well | 01:13 |
| fungi | if i was lucky i'd get home from clubbing with just enough time to shower and change before heading to the office | 01:14 |
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| openstackgerrit | 98k proposed openstack/governance master: Don't quote {posargs} in tox.ini https://review.openstack.org/609132 | 01:47 |
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| fungi | and this concludes yet another quiet wednesday office hour. catch you all around the stack! | 02:00 |
| smcginnis | Goodnight | 02:02 |
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| openstackgerrit | Frode Nordahl proposed openstack/governance master: charms: Add repository for Octavia charm https://review.openstack.org/608283 | 06:21 |
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| ajo | smcginnis: mrhillsman did you see my email? | 07:00 |
| ajo | Ops Tools SIG, if you believe the idea needs a twist in any direction, please propose it, community seems silent though.. | 07:00 |
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| mrhillsman | hey ajo, i was waiting for others to chime in | 11:57 |
| ajo | mrhillsman: I had a ping from one of my rh colleagues who is on a Centos SIG for Ops tools | 11:59 |
| ajo | I hope they'll find time to chime in | 11:59 |
| smcginnis | ajo: I was waiting too, but I can respond on there with my support. Maybe that will trigger others to respond. | 12:13 |
| ajo | mrhillsman: smcginnis makes sense yes, let's give it another day, and otherwise if you can please ping on the thread to see if we get support for it | 12:13 |
| smcginnis | Sounds good. | 12:14 |
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| dhellmann | tc-members: How should we resolve the meeting frequency question? | 12:26 |
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| fungi | well, i suppose i should actually get around to commenting on the review at a minimum | 12:55 |
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| smcginnis | Doodle poll or something similar? Or official vote on a patch proposing the meeting? | 13:08 |
| dhellmann | yeah, I considered writing a resolution | 13:12 |
| gmann | i think vote on patch should be enough | 13:12 |
| dhellmann | shall we vote on https://review.openstack.org/608751 then? | 13:13 |
| dhellmann | tc-members: we could use 1 more code review on https://review.openstack.org/#/c/608793/ please | 13:14 |
| smcginnis | Thought I had done that, but must have looked before zuul results. | 13:15 |
| dhellmann | smcginnis : I think I'm on PS4 there now | 13:16 |
| dhellmann | you may have reviewed an earlier one | 13:16 |
| dhellmann | ty | 13:16 |
| TheJulia | I think voting on a resolution patch is likely the best route since we should be able to achieve that by nov 1. | 13:21 |
| openstackgerrit | Merged openstack/governance master: move members file parsing into a reusable module https://review.openstack.org/608790 | 13:25 |
| fungi | dhellmann: see coreycb's e-mail to the -dev ml in a few minutes about wanting to start proposing py37 jobs for all projects currently using py36 jobs. not sure how that may compete/conflict with the current mass job migration | 13:28 |
| openstackgerrit | Merged openstack/governance master: remove dependency on sphinx app from members parsing code https://review.openstack.org/608791 | 13:28 |
| fungi | s/in a few minutes/a few minutes ago/ | 13:28 |
| openstackgerrit | Merged openstack/governance master: move the projects file loading code into a reusable module https://review.openstack.org/608792 | 13:30 |
| openstackgerrit | Merged openstack/governance master: add a script to randomly assign TC members as liaisons https://review.openstack.org/608793 | 13:30 |
| dhellmann | fungi : yeah, corey got in touch with me privately and I expressed that same concern, but told him to take it to the mailing list to see if anyone else was worried about it | 13:34 |
| fungi | thanks. at a minimum it might at least be nice to wait until the current transition is completed | 13:35 |
| zaneb | it seems really premature to me to say that we have too much stuff to fit in a monthly meeting when we haven't had even one meeting in >18 months | 13:36 |
| zaneb | let's just try it and if there's too much stuff we can hold it more often | 13:37 |
| zaneb | but I really don't think there should be. we got rid of meetings for a reason. this is just a box-ticking exercise | 13:38 |
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| smcginnis | ++ | 13:38 |
| fungi | i'd also like to continue cautioning against trying to fit things into the meeting if they don't need to be discussed in such a setting | 13:39 |
| evrardjp | fungi: that's the agenda part, not the meeting occurence :) | 13:40 |
| fungi | yep | 13:40 |
| dhellmann | I have 2 items on the agenda now: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/TechnicalCommittee | 13:40 |
| smcginnis | It seems like maybe the root of this is differing opinions about the purpose for the meeting. | 13:40 |
| evrardjp | but the point is taken :D | 13:40 |
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| ttx | smcginnis: yes... Discussing with mnaser, we should not underestimate the meeting being used as a way to "keep up with what's happening at TC level". For that purpose it's true that monthly is not often enough... The weekly email is supposed to cover that corner but people don't read. | 14:05 |
| smcginnis | ttx: Is that the right place for that though. | 14:06 |
| ttx | the wider "community" preferred the regular meeting and was a bit lost when we switched to office hours | 14:06 |
| smcginnis | dhellmann's weekly updates are the right place to "leep up with what's happening at the TC level". | 14:06 |
| smcginnis | s/leep/keep/ | 14:06 |
| ttx | smcginnis: I'd argue that a slightly more often recurrence would kill two birds with one stone | 14:06 |
| smcginnis | Get rid of the weekly updates? | 14:07 |
| ttx | smcginnis: the weekly updates are read by the -dev ML consumers, I think, so I'd still produce them | 14:07 |
| ttx | I read them | 14:07 |
| ttx | But I realize I'm special | 14:08 |
| smcginnis | And we should direct others who want to keep up with what the TC is doing to them too, IMO. | 14:08 |
| ttx | smcginnis: We got more external engagement from meetings than we got from office hours or weekly emails... | 14:09 |
| smcginnis | Seems like a waste. "Here's a nice polished and package summary of what we're doing." "Nah, we want to read through all your mistyping and side chatter to try to figure that out." ¯\_(⊙︿⊙)_/¯ | 14:10 |
| ttx | The key question is whether meetings are internal-facing or external-facing things | 14:11 |
| ttx | Or just a bylaws checkbox | 14:11 |
| ttx | I feel like we are underestimating the fact that they are external-facing too. A window into our processes and a pulse on OpenSTack | 14:11 |
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| ttx | For internal needs we don't really need them. For bylaws checkbox we need then to happen at least quaterly. For external-facing communications we need them to happen more often | 14:13 |
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| ttx | but again, meh. There are much more important things to spend time on, so I'll let those with a strong opinion on it (mnaser, smcginnis?) convince each other :) | 14:17 |
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| fungi | reminder: an osf "community meeting" conference call is starting in ~10 minutes: http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2018-October/135441.html | 14:47 |
| smcginnis | Thanks fungi | 14:48 |
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| * TheJulia grumps zoom doesn't seem to want to work on her linux machine :( | 15:02 | |
| fungi | i use a telephone | 15:02 |
| fungi | +1-408-638-0968 #312447172 | 15:02 |
| clarkb | I run the zoom app on my telephone | 15:02 |
| smcginnis | TheJulia: Mine works on Linux. :/ | 15:04 |
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| lbragstad | TheJulia dpkg kept getting interrupted when i tried installing zoom from the website | 15:46 |
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| lbragstad | dpkg --configure -a fixed it for me | 15:47 |
| TheJulia | jbryce: ttx: Thank you for covering the content. Seemed concise to me. | 15:47 |
| TheJulia | lbragstad: rpm based, I ended up connecting via my phone | 15:48 |
| lbragstad | ahh | 15:48 |
| jbryce | thanks for listening = ) | 15:48 |
| ttx | TheJulia: we took twice as long as was planned, so thanks for listening through all :) | 15:48 |
| TheJulia | jbryce: my cats were also listening, they seemed intrigued. | 15:49 |
| ttx | TheJulia: That was my French accent | 15:49 |
| TheJulia | No, I'm fairly sure it was jbryce :) | 15:49 |
| TheJulia | ttx: that was regarding the cats. | 15:49 |
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| ttx | There is home improvement noise coming from the next apartment but the worker helpfully stopped working during the presentation. Probably he decided to join the Zoom call | 15:50 |
| fungi | hogepodge: thanks for a useful community update! | 15:53 |
| dims | ttx : hogepodge : are the slides posted somewhere? | 15:54 |
| dims | i arrived late. wanted to see if there was a vetting process before a project was approved by executive director as a pilot project | 15:55 |
| smcginnis | I thought of asking about that too. Has there been any talk of a public question period before that, or does it go immediately to jbryce for a decision? | 15:56 |
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| hogepodge | dims: https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1YBiTNVidXh0dT22ezR-pD_rganRfGjo_KE-owegkFIM/edit?usp=sharing | 16:02 |
| dims | thanks hogepodge : looks like the answer to my question is "no" | 16:04 |
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| hogepodge | dims: smcginnis: jbryce is in europe right now, and I think had event obligations directly after the meeting, but I passed the question along for clarification. | 16:08 |
| smcginnis | Thanks hogepodge | 16:08 |
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| zaneb | smcginnis: I believe at one point there was a proposal to have a board subcommittee sign off, but I don't see it mentioned in any of the presentations. I don't know if the proposal is still live or has been rejected | 16:44 |
| zaneb | dims: ^ | 16:44 |
| fungi | zaneb: before becoming a pilot project, or before confirming as a full project? | 16:44 |
| dims | ack thanks zaneb | 16:44 |
| zaneb | before becoming a pilot project | 16:44 |
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| fungi | yeah, would be good to know whether that's still under consideration | 16:45 |
| zaneb | I guess we'll find out at the next board meeting | 16:45 |
| dims | fungi : there's a non-zero cost for adding a pilot project so that's where i am looking for some type of vetting (before ED approves one) | 16:45 |
| zaneb | I personally believe that there will be a huge legitimacy perception problem unless there is some sort of transparent process | 16:46 |
| smcginnis | That's my concern as well. | 16:47 |
| zaneb | people will believe that sponsors are strong-arming the foundation into open-washing their pet projects, whether or not that is actually happening | 16:47 |
| TheJulia | I have a bit of the same concern as well, but I'm also looking forward to seeing the draft bylaws update that is expected ?this? week which should provide improved clarity. I also thing as we evolve ways details are communicated outwards, that some of the perception issues may be tempered. | 16:54 |
| smcginnis | That's probably true. | 16:54 |
| fungi | though to some extent there will always be a perception problem because people are going to imagine non-public activity no matter how much goes on in public | 16:59 |
| fungi | there's no way to prove private discussions never took place | 16:59 |
| dims | fungi : right, we still have to try | 17:00 |
| fungi | well, of course. i think the people involved do try | 17:01 |
| fungi | but the gap between perception and reality allows for belief that they don't | 17:01 |
| smcginnis | I think hearing about a new project with some time before it's accepted appeases a lot of it vs. finding out through the acceptance announcement. | 17:03 |
| zaneb | if there are no public discussions then people will have no way to evaluate the strength of the case for themselves, and will substitute for that by making stuff up | 17:03 |
| fungi | assuming we're talking about situations like starlingx, it was announced that they were talking to the osf before it was decided that they were a pilot project, though i don't think it was entirely clear that was the case | 17:04 |
| fungi | it was the fact that intel and windriver were talking to the osf staff about becoming a project under their umbrella which took everyone by surprise, but it could have probably been made more apparent that it was far from a done deal | 17:05 |
| fungi | probably the only way to really reduce the shock there is to tell projects who want to be considered for this that they need to declare that interest in public themselves _before_ engaging the osf staff in any discussion about the particulars? | 17:07 |
| TheJulia | ++ | 17:12 |
| TheJulia | I think stating intention upfront is super important and helps temper or set the filter in which perceptions will occur. | 17:14 |
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| dhellmann | lbragstad : did you vote using Code-Review on https://review.openstack.org/#/c/608751/1 because you don't have a strong opinion, or did I fail to set you up in gerrit so you can cast Roll-Call votes? | 18:27 |
| lbragstad | dhellmann oh - i can do Roll-Call, but i wanted to see where the discussion went with it | 18:27 |
| lbragstad | sorry for the confusion | 18:27 |
| dhellmann | lbragstad : ok. I more or less ignore the CR votes from TC members so I just wanted to make sure I hadn't missed doing the setup | 18:28 |
| lbragstad | good to know, i'll review it again | 18:28 |
| dhellmann | it's fine to abstain for now, fwiw | 18:30 |
| dhellmann | it doesn't look likely that we're going to resolve this question this week | 18:31 |
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| dhellmann | tc-members: Alan has posted some of the details about the location for the joint leadership meeting in Berlin to https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Governance/Foundation/12Nov2018BoardMeeting | 22:57 |
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| fungi | thanks! | 23:28 |
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