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| ttx | dhellmann: I agree we need some solution. Need to strike a balance between "combined status report from 60+ groups" and "nobody contributes" | 07:50 |
|---|---|---|
| ttx | Ideally every team should be given the opportunity to highlight stuff | 07:52 |
| ttx | also the choice of tools will go a long way if we want people to read it. If we optimize it for seasoned email dwellers, that's the wrong group to optimize for (they read ML posts quite efficiently) | 07:53 |
| ttx | so maybe something like Feedly team boards that let you build a shared collection of articles and then communicate the result in various ways. (I'm not saying we should adopt Feedly, but we should find somethign that lets us approximate that flexibility) | 07:56 |
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| cdent | mugsie: you often make me feel like I'm a negagtive ninny, and I like that about you | 11:46 |
| mugsie | we need both sides :) someone needs to reign me in at times | 11:47 |
| cdent | (many sides)++ | 11:48 |
| mugsie | my viewpoint is coloured by our (designate's) incubation experience I suppose | 11:48 |
| dims | o/ | 12:03 |
| cdent | hola dims | 12:06 |
| dims | hey ... just catching up on the thread about the campaign question from Doug | 12:09 |
| mugsie | It is unfortunate that we have 11ish left of campaign time, with only one question | 12:15 |
| cdent | I was going to talk about that in my response but then decided that would be distracting. | 12:16 |
| mugsie | Yeah, maybe a separate thread would be good | 12:17 |
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| dhellmann | ttx: the more I've thought about it, the more I think the next thing to try is some RSS feed that pulls messages from the email archives. Contributing is then just linking to an existing thread. | 13:09 |
| dhellmann | otoh, that feels a bit hacky | 13:09 |
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| dhellmann | tc-members: question 2: http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2018-April/129658.html | 13:27 |
| mugsie | dhellmann is on fire :) | 13:28 |
| cdent | dhellmann: these are good questions but I really wish they were coming from someone other than the nebulous "us" | 13:28 |
| mugsie | this one is a thinker | 13:28 |
| dhellmann | cdent : well, they're coming from *me* | 13:28 |
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| dhellmann | mugsie : yeah, it took me a while to get the phrasing right or I would have posted this first | 13:29 |
| dhellmann | I'm still not sure I have it right, but "tick, tock" | 13:29 |
| cdent | yes, and that's why they remain good, but I would feel more confident about the health of polis is it was someone not on the tc | 13:29 |
| dhellmann | well, I would, too. but I'm not willing to let their inactivity mean we don't have any discussions at all. | 13:30 |
| cdent | yes, agreed | 13:30 |
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| ttx | dhellmann: language precision... in your question, is "reactive" supposed to be the opposite of "active" ? | 13:30 |
| dhellmann | my sense is that we used to have much more ambitious-sounding campaign statements made in self-nominations. I'll have to re-read them this time, but while I did get a lot of sentiment about representation this time I don't remember much about "I want to do X" | 13:31 |
| dhellmann | ttx: yes, I was trying to avoid "passive" | 13:31 |
| ttx | i.e. do you mean defensive/offensive, or "[re]active" in the sense of doing things | 13:31 |
| dhellmann | also "proactive" | 13:31 |
| ttx | ok | 13:31 |
| dhellmann | so, "going out there and doing thing and anticipating issues" vs. "dealing with things as they come up and aren't resolved in another way" | 13:32 |
| ttx | understood | 13:32 |
| dhellmann | I can post clarifying that for everyone's benefit | 13:32 |
| cdent | dhellmann: I agree there was less ambition. I would argue that it the result of increased visibility that not only does the TC not really do all that much, neither are they empowered to do that much. | 13:32 |
| cdent | thus this question being a _really_ good one | 13:32 |
| cdent | (and why I'm going to have to think at some length before responding) | 13:32 |
| * smcginnis finally finishes catching up on playback buffers | 13:37 | |
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| dhellmann | tc-members: question 3: http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2018-April/129661.html | 13:50 |
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| * cdent hopes dhellmann will answer his own questions at some point (because I'm curious) | 13:52 | |
| dhellmann | I'm trying very hard to keep my own opinions out of the questions, but if you read carefully you'll probably still be able to tell | 13:53 |
| dhellmann | but yeah, that's fair | 13:53 |
| dhellmann | after the campaign season is over I'll do that | 13:53 |
| dhellmann | heh, "season" | 13:53 |
| * cdent plants flowers | 13:54 | |
| dhellmann | cdent : I used the quote about planting acorns from this page as the basis for my keynote at pytennesse this year: http://longnow.org/clock/ | 13:55 |
| cdent | that's a good quote | 13:55 |
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| dhellmann | tc-members: question 4: http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2018-April/129664.html | 14:08 |
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| dhellmann | and I think that's probably enough questions out of me for this morning | 14:08 |
| cdent | also a good un | 14:08 |
| smcginnis | Good, I have enough of a backlog at this point. :) | 14:09 |
| fungi | mugsie: what do you think if the related but adjutantless alternative topic i put in my last comment on http://forumtopics.openstack.org/cfp/details/122 ? | 14:10 |
| fungi | er, thnik of | 14:10 |
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| mugsie | fungi: Yeah - I like that. | 14:19 |
| mugsie | I think if it got accepted, we could sift through recent applications, and see what got raised as issues, and why some projects got rejected / encouraged to withdraw the application | 14:20 |
| fungi | agreed. i tried to do it from (my fairly terrible) memory | 14:21 |
| fungi | at least enough to give some examples | 14:21 |
| fungi | though i also did my best to read back through the adjutant application and ensuing review comments to at least make sure all the ones raised there were hopefully represented | 14:22 |
| jroll | doug's questions are great, I look forward to the responses | 14:23 |
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| mugsie | fungi: yeah - they cover most of the issues I remember recently. | 14:27 |
| mugsie | and it is definitely a good conversation to have | 14:27 |
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| fungi | and of course avoided mentioning anything we already cover explicitly in our new project application guidelines | 14:29 |
| fungi | though revisiting those might also be in the cards if we get time | 14:29 |
| mugsie | I think we might need a tardis :) | 14:30 |
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| ttx | Doug is keeping us busy I see | 14:42 |
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| mugsie | yeah :) | 14:49 |
| zhipeng | that was crazy :p | 14:51 |
| dhellmann | don't feel pressured to be the first to answer | 14:52 |
| * mugsie is taking his time :) | 14:52 | |
| zhipeng | nuh I just like to put a straightforward answer out :) | 14:52 |
| dhellmann | or even to answer before voting starts, although if you think you're going to need more time it might be good to say that so that folks don't count you as not participating in the conversation | 14:52 |
| zhipeng | more time I take, less I could write XD | 14:52 |
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| jroll | I hope most people wait until late to vote, so these conversations can be happy | 14:54 |
| jroll | s/happy/had, not sure what happened there | 14:54 |
| mugsie | well, it would not be good to have them unhappy :P | 14:54 |
| dhellmann | jroll : I would like them to be both had and happy :-) | 14:55 |
| jroll | heh, true :) | 14:55 |
| fungi | reminder... cfp for the ato conference in raleigh (october 21-23) ends tomorrow, in case anyone was thinking of submitting a proposal https://allthingsopen.org/call-for-papers/ | 15:04 |
| fungi | i know some of us had discussed maybe trying to find each other at that conference if we end up there | 15:04 |
| dhellmann | unfortunately I'm going to have a conflict, so I don't expect to be there. | 15:06 |
| fungi | :( | 15:06 |
| dhellmann | I was looking forward to it, esp. because it's relatively close. | 15:06 |
| fungi | yeah, i can actually drive to this one, which i can't say about many free software conferences | 15:07 |
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| fungi | i can already tell i'm going to be spending the better part of my day reading tc candidate answers to dhellmann's questions (it's a good thing!) | 15:40 |
| dhellmann | I'm pretty pleased with the response rate so far | 15:41 |
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| ttx | Doug won't let me finish my day | 16:10 |
| ttx | I make less and less sense as time passes, but feel like I should answer before campaigning is over :) | 16:10 |
| dhellmann | ttx: sorry, not sorry? :-) | 16:11 |
| * ttx knows what Dr. Frankenstein felt like now | 16:18 | |
| ttx | I think I outpaced the reply beast | 16:20 |
| mugsie | I am still in email debt I think | 16:24 |
| mugsie | yep, one more dhellmann question left :) | 16:24 |
| ttx | we are clearly not used to thinking so much over so little time | 16:25 |
| dhellmann | yeah, sorry for dumping all of these at one time | 16:25 |
| smcginnis | The Monday morning skeptic in me does also wonder what percentage of voters will read this versus the normal "oh, I recognize that name". | 16:26 |
| dhellmann | yeah, I'm trying to be optimistic | 16:26 |
| ttx | trying to win the Doug vote | 16:26 |
| smcginnis | :) | 16:27 |
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| mugsie | this is a lot of email for a single vote alright :) | 16:47 |
| dhellmann | it's condorcet; I'm going to vote for everyone | 17:12 |
| cdent | I think we should be doing questions and discussions like this pretty much all the time. | 17:13 |
| dhellmann | there's nothing like putting something at stake to encourage participation | 17:15 |
| fungi | yep, i would have liked these threads better if they happened outside the scope of the election, but it is what it is | 17:16 |
| fungi | i suppose it encourages some people to weigh in when they wouldn't otherwise, because they're running for a seat on the tc... but by the same token i'd rather we were doing what it takes (next up, what is that?) to encourage those same people to participate in such discussions all the time | 17:17 |
| dhellmann | all of these questions are based on topics that have come up in TC discussions in one form or another (project reviews, office hours, in-person, etc.) | 17:20 |
| dhellmann | they've definitely been circling around in my head for a while; maybe I need to be better about letting them out | 17:21 |
| cdent | we all should do better about letting things circling in our heads out | 17:22 |
| * dhellmann pictures daffy duck with stars circling his head | 17:24 | |
| mugsie | I am actually picturing the sticker cdent has on the back of his laptop | 17:28 |
| cdent | I need to re-remember the title of that, as it applies here. One moment please. | 17:29 |
| mugsie | also, sorry for the grenade I may have just lobbed into the ML | 17:29 |
| cdent | "Some Trends Want To Make Me Puke" https://www.gelaskins.com/collections/luke-chueh/products/some-trends-want-to-make-me-puke-laptop-skin | 17:30 |
| cdent | Is that a grenade? I'm never clear on what makes for a grenade | 17:31 |
| mugsie | I have found when I ask a question like that it more often than not does turn into a grenade | 17:31 |
| mugsie | maybe it is buried enough :) | 17:32 |
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| cdent | It might also be that I'm grenade-blind | 17:33 |
| dhellmann | mugsie : the ceph question? | 17:47 |
| mugsie | yeah | 17:47 |
| dhellmann | yeah, that's an interesting one | 17:47 |
| dhellmann | I guess I'm not sure where we intend to stop with "constellations" before they come "deployment architecture diagrams" | 17:48 |
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| dhellmann | I originally thought we only meant to use them for folks to understand how our official components interact | 17:48 |
| mugsie | Yeah - I think that will come naturally as they get proposed | 17:49 |
| dhellmann | but they weren't my idea and I wasn't driving them so I'm not sure if I had a more limited vision for what they were | 17:49 |
| mugsie | I think I am basing off a discussion we had in Sydney? When we were looking at ttx's map | 17:49 |
| dhellmann | as I think I said when the whole tag system was originally proposed, there's absolutely nothing preventing anyone from creating a set of documentation like we would expect a "product manager" to create, except that we don't have a single product manager | 17:50 |
| mugsie | well, that is the elephant in the room, isn't it? | 17:50 |
| dhellmann | ok, I'm remembering back to when wendar proposed them at a meeting in boston | 17:50 |
| dhellmann | we have *many* product managers, creating what their companies view of a product is | 17:50 |
| * cdent remembers to tell the next project manager he sees that they are an elephant | 17:50 | |
| mugsie | a white elephant? :P | 17:51 |
| dhellmann | I suspect openstack is the elephant and the PMs are the blind men | 17:51 |
| cdent | s/project/product/ | 17:51 |
| * mugsie just keeps digging the hole | 17:51 | |
| mugsie | yeah - the PWG started out interestingly, but seemed to peter out | 17:52 |
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| fungi | i think the naive initial "constellations" implementation was just going to be masking out unrelated components on the project map or something along those lines | 18:13 |
| fungi | "if you're doing X you need this set of projects installed/running..." | 18:14 |
| fungi | which could later be followed up with example configuration sets | 18:14 |
| dhellmann | yeah, I know sdague had proposed having separate installation guides and all sorts of other variations on things but I never saw us having the people to do that | 18:17 |
| cdent | I think the idealized form in the vision is a useful way to identify resourcing or priority gaps that it would be nice to fill. In this case spending more time on what some might call marketing is probably important. | 18:19 |
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| dhellmann | maybe next time around we should consider the "campaigning" period to be open when we start accepting self-nominations | 22:35 |
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| fungi | not a bad idea | 23:17 |
| fungi | diablo_rojo_: persia: tonyb: ^ | 23:17 |
| fungi | no reason these sorts of discussions can't happen earlier (even before nominations open for that matter) | 23:18 |
| fungi | that said, it still helps the election officials to have some breathing room between close of nominations and opening of the polls | 23:19 |
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| diablo_rojo_ | dhellmann, that works for me. But yes, like fungi said- breathing room between end of nominations and start of polling is ideal as well. Could consider campaigning to start maybe halfway through nominations and to continue for a few days after before beginning polling. | 23:49 |
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