Friday, 2018-04-20

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openstackgerritMerged openstack/governance master: Adjust TC election target to 6 weeks before summit
openstackgerritMerged openstack/governance master: Update Barbican compliance in code progress
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fungii've been on the fence about initiating any campaign period debate questions on the ml myself since i'm also an election official, though thinking back we have had election officials do so in the past13:05
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mugsiefungi: I wouldn't see any issue with election officials kicking it off, as long as it isn't something like "Graham, can you explain to everyone else why you would be amazing on the TC" :)13:12
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fungiit would be a disingenuous question. i mean... i already know why you would be amazing on the tc13:16
ttxalready polishing your alliances I see13:19
cdentstill at pyconit ttx?13:21
ttxcdent: yes, runs until Sunday13:31
cdentcool. good stuff?13:31
ttx680 attendees, organic Tuscany red wine at lunch13:32
ttxGood keynotes this morning (all Red Hat)13:32
ttxMy talk (and Monty's) are tomorrow13:33
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cmurphyI'm suddenly thirsty13:35
cmurphyTuscan wine sounds fabulous13:35
ttxAnd that's the conference lunch!13:35
ttxalso using floppy disks as conference badge is pretty genius13:36
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mugsiettx: yeah, I saw that - such a good idea13:56
mugsiedid you find a USB floppy disk reader to see if there is anything on it yet? :P13:57
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* fungi has one of those lying around somewhere, he thinks, but it only takes 3.5"14:03
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fungii like still have a stack of 5.25" and 8" diskettes in a drawer, but no longer have drives which can take them14:04
fungier, i guess properly that would be 5.25" diskettes and 8" disks14:07
fungii also have a bunch of old discarded 12" drive platters i'm cutting apart and reassembling to build a fancy-looking keyboard stand, if i ever get around to finishing that project14:09
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mugsiefungi: adrian commented on
mugsienot sure how useful that discussion would be without him14:30
fungiyeah, maybe we should just continue on the ml14:37
fungirather unfortunate his employer doesn't see value in sending involved developers to our primary conference, but it is what it is i guess14:37
mugsieIt is part of the reason people want offical status I suppose14:38
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cdentfungi: does summit count as the primary for techs anymore? ptg is more relevant to lots of people14:41
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fungicdent: summit (well, forum) is strongly recommended for technical staff who will be providing or receiving feedback to/from other parts of the community14:43
cmurphywe might be reading too much into his comment, he could be not attending for reasons not related to employer decisions (he did make it to the Sydney summit)14:44
fungiahh, got it. his company decided who was going and it may have been based on his originally thinking he wasn't needed, and now it's too close to change that up14:44
fungigreat point, cmurphy14:45
cdentfungi: _I_ know that, but I think there are plenty of people who feel otherwise. For example:
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cdentfungi: and I think it is disingenuous for us to assume that just because we say so that summit is easy to get to. (setting aside adrian's particular experience or moment in time, but speaking generally about summit as a thing)14:46
mugsiecdent: jay is not the only person I have heard similar thoughts from14:46
fungioh, i don't find it easy to get to at all14:47
cdentI go because other people are there and I'm lucky enough to have an employer who will pay my way, and before that a foundation that was willing to support my attendance14:47
fungieven with my employer covering the costs, i'm personally not find of travelling14:47
mugsiecdent: ditto14:47
fungier, fond of14:47
cdentbut I really think conferences as some kind of requirement for collaboration is a bogus14:47
* mugsie is look at flights now, and crying14:47
mugsie15 hours minimum -_-14:48
cdentso, basically: I think we should strive to de-emphasize these in person things14:48
cdent(as much as I enjoy seeing fungi's shirts and chopsticks)14:49
fungithankfully my itinerary is "only" a little over 10 hours wheels up to wheels down (granted that doesn't include the hours on the road to get to the nearest airport, nor the extra hotel stay i need at the airport so i'll make my flight on time)14:50
fungiand that's for going to a conference on the same continent i live on14:50
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dtroyer_zzfungi: yeah but you live in a much sweeter location than I do where I can be wheels-down to my driveay in 27 minutes14:52
fungiyeah, i'll grant you it's way more pleasant here than when i lived 5 minutes from the back entrance to rdu airport14:53
fungigetting to yvr from here isn't particularly cheap either. originally christine was going to come along, but for less than the cost of her plane ticket we bought two very nice 11' kayaks, paddles, life vests, a cart to wheel them around with...14:55
dtroyer_zzhmmm… I wonder if my wife would make that trade too? She has been looking at kayaks…14:56
fungithey're probably a lot cheaper here, i'll grant you. we have a ton of companies who rent them out to tourists for a season, then clean them up and sell them off14:57
fungisame with bicycles14:57
fungiand a lot of other outdoor sporting equipment14:57
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ttxso... do you think we should keep the Adjutant session ?15:18
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ttxWe just were in the Forum session selection committee call and I raised it as a possibility15:19
ttxI think it's worth it if we can discuss things with Keystone/Mistral folks, but it may be a bit one-sided15:19
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ttxLet me know your thoughts on that (keep it or replace it by another form of discussion) as we'll be working on a strawman schedule early next week15:20
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openstackgerritEmilien Macchi proposed openstack/governance master: Import ansible-role-container-registry in tripleo
dhellmannttx: I would hesitate to talk too directly about adjutant without someone representing them, but it might be useful for us to have a conversation about adding projects in general.17:49
fungiyeah, i could see retitling it such that we're discussing the kinds of issues the adjutant proposal raises, so long as we don't steer it to the context of their application18:02
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mugsieYeah, I don't think it would be fair to force someone to try and argue their case via phone dial in18:48
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fungimugsie: i've done my best to come up with an alternative session description and posted it as a comment on that one20:48
* fungi needs to step away and grab something to eat now20:48
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dhellmanntc-members and candidates: sorry it took me so long to make time to start with some questions this week:
clarkbit is end of week but I'll mention it here so if I forget it at least got some airtime. But its come up that maybe we should get TC input on potential changes to make devstack use virtualenvs by default? topic:venv_support is the current set of changes to make it happen (note we'll need more for all the branches). Part of the concern is we'll likely break all the plugins if we do this. But at the same21:52
clarkbtime pip10 is starting to more forcefully push us this direction21:52
clarkbfungi: ^ maybe you can remind me when it is time to discuss that during office hours21:52
dhellmannclarkb : I saw a comment about that and wondered why it needed to be a TC decision. Is there a big disagreement, or are people just looking for some validation?21:57
clarkbdhellmann: I think its mostly get some people behind it so that when we break the world it doesn't look like we made that decision in a vacuum21:58
clarkbof course we could also decide that doing so would be too painful currently and until pip10 really forces the issue we just continue as is21:58
dhellmannok, well, my standard response to that is at least start a mailing list thread :-)21:58
dhellmannbut yeah, I can see this being a big enough thing that giving it some visibility is a good idea21:58
clarkbI did, it didn't get much traction and based on the number of people asking about why pip10 broke them over the weekend I don't think anyone read it21:59
dhellmannhmm, what was the title of that thread?21:59
* clarkb goes to find it21:59
dhellmannmaybe "Pip 10 is on the way"?22:00
clarkb[openstack-dev] [infra][qa] Pip 10 is on the way (technically fungi started it)22:00
dhellmannok, yeah22:00
dhellmannI think we need to start training people to read the mailing list by responding to questions about things that have been posted to the list by giving a URL to the email that covered the topic22:01
dhellmann"this is being discussed over here <link>"22:01
dhellmannjust nudge them into reading and using the list for discussions22:01
dhellmannclarkb : it sounds from your email on 5 apr that using a single virtualenv with system site-packages enabled does work, is that right?22:03
clarkbdhellmann: it does (mostly)22:04
dhellmannwe might also need to think about some lower volume method of making announcements that affect the whole community22:04
dhellmannsomething that maybe isn't just email, like a blog22:05
clarkbdhellmann: basically the base jobs all pass once I get grenade and ironic updated to accomodate it22:05
dhellmannthe posts could just link to the relevant email threads maybe?22:05
dhellmannclarkb : cool, so between that and what I remember from the pypa folks saying not to mix packages and not to use pip with sudo, it sounds like that's the right approach22:05
dhellmann(using 1 virtualenv)22:05
clarkbthe ironic issue is an example of the sort of class of problem where I expect things will break.
dhellmannhmm, yeah22:06
clarkbdhellmann: ya it is definitely the direction that pypa seems to want to push people22:06
dhellmannit's understandable -- there's no reason they should carry the load of making pip work with all of the various packaging systems out there22:07
dhellmannthey view it as a developer tool22:07
dhellmannclarkb : I am starting to add some notes to the bottom of for the next office hours if you want to add some links22:08
clarkbI think its getting confused by me trying to type, itneresting22:09
dhellmannclarkb : thanks, that should give us nice detail to share with the other tc-members for the next office hours22:16
clarkbdhellmann: my major concern here is that upstream is likely only going to keep pushing this forward and the distros seem disinterested in changing any time soon.22:16
clarkbdhellmann: so while we may be able to limp along under pip10 who knows what pip11 will bring22:16
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dhellmannyeah, I definitely think we need to do something22:16
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* dhellmann hears wine glasses in the next room and signs off for the weekend22:17
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openstackgerritSamuel Cassiba proposed openstack/governance master: Add openstack-dns (Designate) to Chef OpenStack
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