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| cdent | smcginnis wastes no time | 11:39 |
|---|---|---|
| mugsie | ricolin was even faster :) | 11:47 |
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| smcginnis | cdent: I had a draft I was going to spend more time updating but decided I hate writing them enough that I just submitted it to get it over with. :) | 14:04 |
| dims | ++ smcginnis | 14:21 |
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| fungi | cdent: i expect you were joking about standardizing on makefiles, but at one point clarkb ragecoded a passable tox replacement after one particularly frustrating semi-intentional regression in a new tox release | 14:44 |
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| cdent | fungi: well, I like Makefiles, I think they are very handy for ... making stuff. But I know that making such a change would hit some resistance. So perhaps snark more than joke? Not really sure. | 14:45 |
| fungi | i should have clarified, a passable tox replacement using a makefile | 14:46 |
| fungi | (i was all for it, personally) | 14:47 |
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| cdent | every time someone create a tox, rake, <whatever the lastest of the ten million in JavaScript is> I get touch and wish for more make | 14:49 |
| TheJulia | cdent: I mean, if published with the context of snark, perhaps there would be less resistance | 14:51 |
| ttx | dims: quick question on K8s: how successful would you say the "shadow" system is in growing new leaders ? | 14:53 |
| cdent | TheJulia: perhaps. At this stage I've become a fan of tox, in the python context, basically because of the virtualenv management. Which is why I like on that particular review that the advice is to keep a local docts jobs in tox. | 14:53 |
| dims | ttx : in the k8s release team, pretty good track record | 14:53 |
| ttx | dims: is it the only team using it ? | 14:53 |
| dims | so far ... yes | 14:54 |
| ttx | OK, Our usual strategy is to automate people out of a role, rather than shadow roles | 14:54 |
| ttx | but we could still have shadow roles for the remaining key roles, like PTL positions | 14:54 |
| dhellmann | would shadowing imply a longer time commitment? like, you need to shadow for 6 months before taking on a role and then you need to do that role long enough to mentor the next person? | 14:54 |
| dims | ttx : right, which is fine as well. the release mechanisms there are still human intensive | 14:55 |
| dims | yes, shadow would work very well for PTL and other roles. | 14:55 |
| dhellmann | not that I think that's a bad model, it just raises some red flags if we think we're having trouble getting long-term commitments from companies | 14:55 |
| ttx | dhellmann: I don't think so... It's just about spending time training another person / having a hot backup while you're in the role | 14:55 |
| dims | dhellmann : they have 3 month cycle | 14:55 |
| dims | right ttx | 14:56 |
| dhellmann | hmm, yeah, the shorter cycle may help there | 14:56 |
| ttx | dhellmann: Shadows don't have to be the next PTL | 14:56 |
| mugsie | I think a few projects have done the unoffical "shadowing" thing for PTL over the years | 14:56 |
| dhellmann | I like the idea of "hot backup" | 14:56 |
| dims | they are also trying to document things so next person who picks up a role has a playbook | 14:56 |
| dhellmann | so if someone shadows the PTL and then neither of them run the next term, I guess we're no worse off than we are now | 14:56 |
| ttx | dhellmann: I could see it actually removing some of the pressure on the pTL role | 14:57 |
| dims | ttx : they are also talking about insisting on multiple leads for a SIG | 14:57 |
| ttx | dims: yes they talked about that in the meeting in Austin | 14:57 |
| dhellmann | ttx: because of having a backup? | 14:57 |
| dims | ttx : so far only only SIG has one lead, every other has more than one | 14:57 |
| ttx | dhellmann: yes, like "it's ok to go on vacation" | 14:57 |
| dhellmann | sure | 14:58 |
| dims | shared responsibility | 14:58 |
| ttx | co-leading and shodowing are two strategies, just depends on the role you need to scale | 14:58 |
| ttx | when the role is elected / gives you last word on things, shadowing is better | 14:58 |
| ttx | as it fits the usual delegation / proxy models | 14:59 |
| clarkb | cdent: fungi https://review.openstack.org/#/c/88698/2/Makefile its pretty basic | 15:00 |
| dims | another thing they are doing is ... there is no specific "core" team for a SIG. just roles and sig lead | 15:00 |
| ttx | dims: same here ? | 15:00 |
| dims | ttx : we have a list of core members for nova right? they don't have one for sig-node for example | 15:01 |
| dims | they decouple approval and review with OWNERS files in their code trees | 15:03 |
| ttx | Right, their project team equivalent is the OWNERS file | 15:03 |
| ttx | no 1:1 match | 15:03 |
| fungi | similar to the linux kernel review model | 15:04 |
| dims | ttx : there are a lot of OWNERS files, so all over ... so it's hard to nail down who is in the "core group" for a SIG | 15:05 |
| ttx | Good for mono-repos | 15:06 |
| dims | right to get added to any OWNERS file has to be earned by explicit contribution (review and code) | 15:06 |
| dims | not just by getting into a "core team" by invite | 15:06 |
| dims | on the flip side, OWNERS files go stale fast | 15:07 |
| dims | at one point they auto-populated by scraping data. but then switched to folks explicitly asking to be added to specific OWNERS files | 15:07 |
| dims | when the bot uses the data to assign reviewers etc. PR(s) just sit there with no one looking at them | 15:08 |
| mugsie | dims: to get the invite to a core team, you have to do explict contribution? | 15:17 |
| dims | mugsie : there's no core team, just join the mailing list and show up for meetings | 15:17 |
| mugsie | not sure how an OWNERS file is different to a core team that has +2 on a path | 15:17 |
| dims | to be listed in OWNERS files, you need actual contributions | 15:18 |
| mugsie | as do members of a core team ? | 15:18 |
| dims | there is no "core" team :) | 15:19 |
| dims | take a peek for myself for example - https://k8s-code.appspot.com/?q=dims&i=nope&files=OWNERS&repos=kubernetes | 15:19 |
| dims | am a reviewer for many sub-trees as a result of explicit contributions | 15:20 |
| dims | each OWNERS file has a set of "approvers" and "reviewers" | 15:20 |
| dims | "reviewers" are the pool bot uses to assign folks to new PR(s) for review | 15:20 |
| mugsie | No, I get the concept - but I am core in a few openstack repos because of explict contributions. | 15:21 |
| mugsie | I am just confused by "[16:06:44] <dims> not just by getting into a "core team" by invite" | 15:21 |
| dims | when you get invited in openstack, you get approval and review rights over all the repositories in openstack under that project typically right? they don't do that | 15:22 |
| dims | take oslo for example, folks work on some of the repos, get invited to oslo team, then they are allowed +2 on all the oslo repos | 15:23 |
| mugsie | ah - OK. | 15:23 |
| clarkb | dims: fwiw thats largely up to the teams aiui | 15:23 |
| clarkb | oslo could choose to have a core team per oslo subproject which would be much more similar to owners files | 15:24 |
| clarkb | (but at a repo level because not mono repo) | 15:24 |
| dims | clarkb : the distinction is each project has a list of individuals that is tasked to take care of the project in openstack. they don't | 15:24 |
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| dims | mugsie : ttx : clarkb : fungi : this may help with some more details - https://github.com/kubernetes/community/pull/1994/commits | 15:28 |
| clarkb | dims: is the assertion that by not caring about the project the overhead to being reviewer is lower making it easier for peopel to help there? | 15:29 |
| dims | clarkb : haven't been able to nail down, the why ... | 15:33 |
| clarkb | https://github.com/kubernetes/community/blob/master/community-membership.md#reviewer is the set of requirements for a reviewer | 15:37 |
| clarkb | which also has responsibilities listed | 15:37 |
| dims | y that's a good one. another one about OWNERS file is here - https://github.com/kubernetes/community/blob/master/contributors/guide/owners.md#maintaining-owners-files | 15:40 |
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| cdent | smcginnis: yeah, once I started writing something I just wanted it over with | 16:40 |
| smcginnis | Same | 16:40 |
| dmsimard | Ansible has a similar thing they use to associate pieces of code with people through a bot https://github.com/ansible/ansible/blob/devel/.github/BOTMETA.yml | 16:45 |
| dmsimard | (The bot in question: https://github.com/ansible/ansibullbot ) | 16:46 |
| TheJulia | Sometimes I've wondered why I've gotten some of the messages out of it, but maybe I touched a line way back in time and don't remember.... | 16:47 |
| dmsimard | TheJulia: https://github.com/ansible/ansible/blob/devel/.github/BOTMETA.yml#L1146 :) | 16:47 |
| TheJulia | Yeah, but I've had a few cases where I've been tagged on things completely unrelated | 16:48 |
| dmsimard | Bot bugs perhaps | 16:54 |
| TheJulia | yeah | 16:58 |
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| dmsimard | Oh wow, first time I notice there's a "dynamic" countdown on the election page. https://governance.openstack.org/election/ | 17:26 |
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| fungi | been there for more than a year ;) | 18:20 |
| dmsimard | I suppose it's only there during an ongoing election and I probably never visited it during an election :) | 18:32 |
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| -openstackstatus- NOTICE: zuul was restarted to updated to the latest code; you may need to recheck changes uploaded or approvals added between 21:30 and 21:45 | 22:31 | |
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