Wednesday, 2018-04-11

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cdentsmcginnis wastes no time11:39
mugsiericolin was even faster :)11:47
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smcginniscdent: I had a draft I was going to spend more time updating but decided I hate writing them enough that I just submitted it to get it over with. :)14:04
dims++ smcginnis14:21
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fungicdent: i expect you were joking about standardizing on makefiles, but at one point clarkb ragecoded a passable tox replacement after one particularly frustrating semi-intentional regression in a new tox release14:44
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cdentfungi: well, I like Makefiles, I think they are very handy for ... making stuff. But I know that making such a change would hit some resistance. So perhaps snark more than joke? Not really sure.14:45
fungii should have clarified, a passable tox replacement using a makefile14:46
fungi(i was all for it, personally)14:47
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cdentevery time someone create a tox, rake, <whatever the lastest of the ten million in JavaScript is> I get touch and wish for more make14:49
TheJuliacdent: I mean, if published with the context of snark, perhaps there would be less resistance14:51
ttxdims: quick question on K8s: how successful would you say the "shadow" system is in growing new leaders ?14:53
cdentTheJulia: perhaps. At this stage I've become a fan of tox, in the python context, basically because of the virtualenv management. Which is why I like on that particular review that the advice is to keep a local docts jobs in tox.14:53
dimsttx : in the k8s release team, pretty good track record14:53
ttxdims: is it the only team using it ?14:53
dimsso far ... yes14:54
ttxOK, Our usual strategy is to automate people out of a role, rather than shadow roles14:54
ttxbut we could still have shadow roles for the remaining key roles, like PTL positions14:54
dhellmannwould shadowing imply a longer time commitment? like, you need to shadow for 6 months before taking on a role and then you need to do that role long enough to mentor the next person?14:54
dimsttx : right, which is fine as well. the release mechanisms there are still human intensive14:55
dimsyes, shadow would work very well for PTL and other roles.14:55
dhellmannnot that I think that's a bad model, it just raises some red flags if we think we're having trouble getting long-term commitments from companies14:55
ttxdhellmann: I don't think so... It's just about spending time training another person / having a hot backup while you're in the role14:55
dimsdhellmann : they have 3 month cycle14:55
dimsright ttx14:56
dhellmannhmm, yeah, the shorter cycle may help there14:56
ttxdhellmann: Shadows don't have to be the next PTL14:56
mugsieI think a few projects have done the unoffical "shadowing" thing for PTL over the years14:56
dhellmannI like the idea of "hot backup"14:56
dimsthey are also trying to document things so next person who picks up a role has a playbook14:56
dhellmannso if someone shadows the PTL and then neither of them run the next term, I guess we're no worse off than we are now14:56
ttxdhellmann: I could see it actually removing some of the pressure on the pTL role14:57
dimsttx : they are also talking about insisting on multiple leads for a SIG14:57
ttxdims: yes they talked about that in the meeting in Austin14:57
dhellmannttx: because of having a backup?14:57
dimsttx : so far only only SIG has one lead, every other has more than one14:57
ttxdhellmann: yes, like "it's ok to go on vacation"14:57
dimsshared responsibility14:58
ttxco-leading and shodowing are two strategies, just depends on the role you need to scale14:58
ttxwhen the role is elected / gives you last word on things, shadowing is better14:58
ttxas it fits the usual delegation / proxy models14:59
clarkbcdent: fungi its pretty basic15:00
dimsanother thing they are doing is ... there is no specific "core" team for a SIG. just roles and sig lead15:00
ttxdims: same here ?15:00
dimsttx : we have a list of core members for nova right? they don't have one for sig-node for example15:01
dimsthey decouple approval and review with OWNERS files in their code trees15:03
ttxRight, their project team equivalent is the OWNERS file15:03
ttxno 1:1 match15:03
fungisimilar to the linux kernel review model15:04
dimsttx : there are a lot of OWNERS files, so all over ... so it's hard to nail down who is in the "core group" for a SIG15:05
ttxGood for mono-repos15:06
dimsright to get added to any OWNERS file has to be earned by explicit contribution (review and code)15:06
dimsnot just by getting into a "core team" by invite15:06
dimson the flip side, OWNERS files go stale fast15:07
dimsat one point they auto-populated by scraping data. but then switched to folks explicitly asking to be added to specific OWNERS files15:07
dimswhen the bot uses the data to assign reviewers etc. PR(s) just sit there with no one looking at them15:08
mugsiedims: to get the invite to a core team, you have to do explict contribution?15:17
dimsmugsie : there's no core team, just join the mailing list and show up for meetings15:17
mugsienot sure how an OWNERS file is different to a core team that has +2 on a path15:17
dimsto be listed in OWNERS files, you need actual contributions15:18
mugsieas do members of a core team ?15:18
dimsthere is no "core" team :)15:19
dimstake a peek for myself for example -
dimsam a reviewer for many sub-trees as a result of explicit contributions15:20
dimseach OWNERS file has a set of "approvers" and "reviewers"15:20
dims"reviewers" are the pool bot uses to assign folks to new PR(s) for review15:20
mugsieNo, I get the concept - but I am core in a few openstack repos because of explict contributions.15:21
mugsieI am just confused by "[16:06:44] <dims> not just by getting into a "core team" by invite"15:21
dimswhen you get invited in openstack, you get approval and review rights over all the repositories in openstack under that project typically right? they don't do that15:22
dimstake oslo for example, folks work on some of the repos, get invited to oslo team, then they are allowed +2 on all the oslo repos15:23
mugsieah - OK.15:23
clarkbdims: fwiw thats largely up to the teams aiui15:23
clarkboslo could choose to have a core team per oslo subproject which would be much more similar to owners files15:24
clarkb(but at a repo level because not mono repo)15:24
dimsclarkb : the distinction is each project has a list of individuals that is tasked to take care of the project in openstack. they don't15:24
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dimsmugsie : ttx : clarkb : fungi : this may help with some more details -
clarkbdims: is the assertion that by not caring about the project the overhead to being reviewer is lower making it easier for peopel to help there?15:29
dimsclarkb : haven't been able to nail down, the why ...15:33
clarkb is the set of requirements for a reviewer15:37
clarkbwhich also has responsibilities listed15:37
dimsy that's a good one. another one about OWNERS file is here -
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cdentsmcginnis: yeah, once I started writing something I just wanted it over with16:40
dmsimardAnsible has a similar thing they use to associate pieces of code with people through a bot
dmsimard(The bot in question: )16:46
TheJuliaSometimes I've wondered why I've gotten some of the messages out of it, but maybe I touched a line way back in time and don't remember....16:47
dmsimardTheJulia: :)16:47
TheJuliaYeah, but I've had a few cases where I've been tagged on things completely unrelated16:48
dmsimardBot bugs perhaps16:54
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dmsimardOh wow, first time I notice there's a "dynamic" countdown on the election page.
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fungibeen there for more than a year ;)18:20
dmsimardI suppose it's only there during an ongoing election and I probably never visited it during an election :)18:32
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-openstackstatus- NOTICE: zuul was restarted to updated to the latest code; you may need to recheck changes uploaded or approvals added between 21:30 and 21:4522:31
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