Thursday, 2017-08-03

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fungioffice hour in t-minus 60 seconds14:59
fungibrace for impact!14:59
fungiand so it begins15:00
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cdentoh dear15:10
fungidims: was what you had in mind when you suggested posting lists of who had or did not have matching foundation memberships?15:12
dimsfungi : yep i checked it out this morning. looks good!15:12
fungii had to compress them to make it past moderation queues. we have a lot of contributors!15:14
dhellmannI was a bit concerned with the number of long-term folks I recognized from the non-members list :-(15:14
fungiso many names they barely fit under the 40k moderation limit when compressed with gzip -915:14
fungidhellmann: yep, i expect some changed employers/e-mail addresses but never updated their foundation memberships, others stopped voting in board elections at some point and let their memberships lapse15:15
fungisome also simply may not care about whether they get to vote in things15:15
fungii expect that number to only increase when we stop forcing new contributors to sign up for foundation individual memberships15:16
dhellmannwas it a bylaws rule that says only foundation members can vote in PTL & TC elections?15:17
fungion the other hand, it may mean that our voter turn-out rates are actually better than we thought, because people who don't care about getting to vote may not sign up for foundation membership or let their older memberships lapse15:17
dhellmannor is that part of the TC charter?15:17
fungiyou'll find the relevant citations in
ttxit was a bylaws thing15:18
fungi"technical committee member policy" which is an addendum/appendix to the bylaws of the openstack foundation15:19
ttx"Him who thee membership had thou shalt deign a vote" or something15:19
* ttx can't read bylaws english15:19
fungiso whether you consider that "part of the bylaws" or not, i dunno15:20
dhellmannwell, it's not part of the charter, so it's hard to change, and that was the real question15:20
dhellmannnot that I object necessarily to asking people to indicate that they are interested in voting by joining the foundation, I guess15:21
fungittx: well, there's also a very-long-standing typo at the beginning of 3.b.i which doesn't help matters where understanding is concerned15:21
fungii keep pestering people to try and get it corrected15:21
fungibut it never seems to get prioritized15:21
fungidhellmann: fwiw, it's _also_ mentioned in the tc charter (i link that in the e-mail there as well)15:22
fungibut yes, we'd need to be able to change both15:22
dhellmannyeah, it's just redundant to say it in the charter15:22
fungigranted, the apc definition we could probably change if we wanted. that's just something "we" (the community, not foundation legal representation) made up15:23
ttxdhellmann: the reason why we have it in the charter is that the language in the bylaws in incomprehensible15:23
ttxso we just said teh same in plain english15:23
fungiatc is harder to change though, and keeping apc a subset of atc is helpful to avoid confusion15:23
dhellmannhmm, I'm reading this and seeing that TC members need to be foundation members, but not that voters do, unless using "Individual Member" implies that?15:25
fungithe whole section is "determination of active technical contributor"15:26
dhellmannmaybe app[4]3bi should read "An ATC is an Individual Member" rather than "An Individual Member is an ATC"15:26
fungidhellmann: correct. that's the typo i keep pinging people about every few months but nobody ever feels moved to fix15:26
dhellmannbecause the way that reads now it sounds like you have to be ATC to join the foundation :-)15:26
fungior even tell me who has the authority tofix it15:26
dhellmannwhich I also don't necessarily object to, but it's probably not realistic15:27
dhellmannfungi : maybe we can put that on the agenda for the bod/tc/uc meeting in denver15:27
fungiit could be a _very_ brief topic!15:29
fungi"we need to swap a couple words around in an appendix to the bylaws"15:29
fungifrom what i'm told, because it's an appendix it shouldn't require a vote of the foundation membership to fix it15:29
ttxMy last discussion about it was rather Kafakaesque15:29
dhellmannfungi : it seems like a typo shouldn't require a vote either, but IANAL15:30
dhellmannmaybe it's enough work to do that it's not worth it15:30
dhellmannfungi : has anyone objected to this change?15:35
fungidhellmann: nobody so far, at least15:35
fungiespecially since it allows us to simplify new contributor onboarding substantially15:36
fungiand also is holding us up from being able to upgrade gerrit15:36
dhellmannoh, yes, good point15:36
fungiand on top of that, there's the argument that until the foundation added an api to verify members a few months ago, we had an excuse for not strictly checking that part of our policy15:36
fungiif we don't do it now, we could be seen as not meeting due diligence15:37
fungiseparately, i have a change in progress to finally start counting contributions from retired deliverables in generating voter rolls15:49
fungiless relevant to ptl elections, but would love to have that in place before tc elections15:49
fungithe legacy.yaml was inconsistent (i expect because we had nothing parsing it so far) and somewhat incompatible with the structure in projects.yaml, but aims to clean that up15:51
dhellmannit seems like that should fall under our house rules and not need a full vote, since it's just data cleanup15:52
fungiprobably so... it's just rearranging the deck chairs, not replacing them15:53
dhellmannit would be good to add a linter check to that file at some point15:55
dhellmannthat shouldn't block this update, though15:55
ttxhappy to approve it now if that helps15:55
ttx(under the typo/code rule)15:56
ttxfungi: ^15:56
fungittx: sounds great to me, thanks15:57
fungidhellmann: i agree, we could probably just use one for both files even15:58
fungisince their structures are the same15:58
dhellmannor at least should be :-)16:03
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openstackgerritMerged openstack/governance master: Normalize deliverables arrays in legacy.yaml
fungis/should/will soon/ !16:04
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