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| smcginnis | Meeting today? | 14:03 |
|---|---|---|
| shintaro | hi | 14:04 |
| smcginnis | Hey shintaro. o/ | 14:04 |
| shintaro | hi smcginnis! | 14:04 |
| shintaro | I guess it's just two of us here. | 14:05 |
| smcginnis | I guess so. | 14:06 |
| smcginnis | Hmm, I vaguely remember some talk about maybe skipping since it was right after the last one and so long before the next, but I thought that was two weeks ago. | 14:08 |
| smcginnis | Oh well, I didn't really have anything to talk about. :) | 14:08 |
| shintaro | Me neither. I will check the recent ML discussion on co-location. | 14:09 |
| shintaro | I haven't had a time to really follow the discussion | 14:09 |
| mrhillsman | I'm here huckleberry | 14:09 |
| smcginnis | Morning mrhillsman. | 14:09 |
| shintaro | hi mrhillsman | 14:10 |
| smcginnis | shintaro: Yeah, that could change a lot. I should catch up on the latest there too. | 14:10 |
| smcginnis | Last I read, it sounded pretty favourable to happening. | 14:10 |
| mrhillsman | we did discuss in yesterday's uc meeting to confirm with folks here about the ptg/midcycle change | 14:10 |
| smcginnis | I think my question last week was if the current folks that were stepping up to sponsor an independent event would be offended if we changed things. And if they would still be willing to participate. | 14:11 |
| shintaro | rebranding and seek for a better collaboration seems good idea to me | 14:11 |
| jamesmcarthur | Hi all. Apologies for my tardiness. | 14:11 |
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| shintaro | I guess we need mihalis68 to answer that question, smcginnis | 14:12 |
| mihalis68 | hello. Sorry I'm late | 14:12 |
| mihalis68 | what's the question? | 14:13 |
| mrhillsman | i don't see Chris as he would be able to speak on ... | 14:13 |
| shintaro | hi mihalis68 | 14:13 |
| mrhillsman | o/ mihalis68 | 14:13 |
| smcginnis | mihalis68: Morning. We were just chatting about the combined PTG/Ops prospect. | 14:13 |
| mihalis68 | dammit I don't have scrollback | 14:13 |
| smcginnis | mihalis68: I just mentioned I was wondering if the current planned sponsors of the independent event would be OK with changing things on them. | 14:14 |
| mihalis68 | was attending to a ceph cluster - that's my new life | 14:14 |
| mrhillsman | it seems we have consensus on the ML | 14:14 |
| mrhillsman | smcginnis' question | 14:14 |
| mrhillsman | and any concerns other than what has previously been mentioned | 14:14 |
| mihalis68 | the update on the planned event is that so far the old venue is gone and the people who run the new place that I though was suitable seem to be flaky. So far we don't have a venue after all (I thought this was practically a formality but it seems they don't actually do events of this size, and perhaps the bloomberg events people didn't know that) | 14:15 |
| mrhillsman | jamesmcarthur correct me if i am wrong but yay nay needs to happen pretty soon? | 14:16 |
| mihalis68 | so I need to talk to my contacts at verizon and walmart in any case as there's no current confirmed plan. I will definitely ask them to consider the proposal to merge it into a redefined PTG | 14:16 |
| mrhillsman | is amrith the person still on verizon side? | 14:17 |
| mihalis68 | I don't think operators can formally agree to it before we actually see a proposal though. So far there's no location and no actual modified event definition | 14:17 |
| mihalis68 | I don;t think we could ask a sponsor to say yes to it just yet | 14:18 |
| mihalis68 | like where actually is it? | 14:18 |
| mrhillsman | location cannot be revealed until after 4/9 | 14:18 |
| mihalis68 | the actual travel implications matter - people are in locations | 14:18 |
| mrhillsman | but it is central iirc | 14:18 |
| mihalis68 | the sponsors are in NY/NJ/W.VA | 14:19 |
| smcginnis | That is what I have heard - central | 14:19 |
| jamesmcarthur | We need a decision no later than April 4 | 14:19 |
| mihalis68 | "central" is definitely not as good for those firms | 14:19 |
| mihalis68 | I don't quite understand how there's a firm deadline but not really a firm proposal | 14:19 |
| jamesmcarthur | Well, we're negotiating a contract for the event location. If we were to give it out ahead of time, we would lose the ability to properly negotiate. | 14:21 |
| jamesmcarthur | It's in the Central US, as I mentioned previously. | 14:21 |
| mrhillsman | imho that is probably not a blocker | 14:21 |
| jamesmcarthur | Re: a proposal, as I mentioned in the email, we're happy to work with the Ops/UC/TC to update the language in a way that makes all parties comfortable. | 14:22 |
| mrhillsman | probably safe to assume foundation can handle all logistics | 14:22 |
| jamesmcarthur | We're not going to go through that exercise though unless we know that you'll be willing to colocate. | 14:22 |
| mrhillsman | and make messaging changes | 14:22 |
| mrhillsman | sorry on phone, fingers slower :) | 14:23 |
| jamesmcarthur | That said, perhaps we could ask this group to work with teh UC on defining the language they'd like to see? | 14:23 |
| mrhillsman | and again, just my opinion, though central may not be ideal, should be a blockee | 14:24 |
| jamesmcarthur | Ultimately, it's up to the community, not the Foundation :) We're just trying to facilitate the event space and details. | 14:24 |
| mrhillsman | should not be a blocker | 14:24 |
| jamesmcarthur | Re: sponsor locations, Verizon and WalMart both have a presence all over teh US. I'd be happy to have our sponsor team reach out to them to discuss details on sponsorship. | 14:25 |
| mrhillsman | is there any reason not to say yes that is a strong blocker? | 14:25 |
| jamesmcarthur | We also don't have to have the sponsorships settled by April 4. | 14:26 |
| mihalis68 | it's not verizon and walmart corporations, it's the openstack teams. they have much more specific locations | 14:26 |
| jamesmcarthur | Just an agreement to colocate so that we can finalize our negotiations with the venue. | 14:26 |
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| mihalis68 | previously the way ops meetups work is a proposal is made and the community assesses it. If there are competing ones they are put to a vote, otherwise we just publicize it and then if there's nothing wrong with a (single proposal) move forward with it | 14:28 |
| jamesmcarthur | We just did that on the mailing list and there seemed to be broad acceptance of colocating. | 14:28 |
| mrhillsman | ^ | 14:28 |
| jamesmcarthur | If there is a competing proposal, then let's go ahead and put that out to the same lists. | 14:28 |
| mihalis68 | so given the interest in this colocated event that could proceed. That is separate from can I convert the interest of three sponsors of a proposed event in NYC in August into supporting something somewhere else at a different time | 14:28 |
| mihalis68 | is the offer to cater to an ops meet up in a modified PTG contingent on some assumption of bringing the sponsors over? | 14:30 |
| jamesmcarthur | Not at all. | 14:30 |
| jamesmcarthur | Our events team can try to work with those particular sponsors, and we would of course continue to seek additional sponsorship for the event. | 14:32 |
| jamesmcarthur | To be clear mihalis68: we're not asking you to manage the sponsors for a co-located event. | 14:32 |
| jamesmcarthur | If those sponsors would prefer to stay on the east coast, there are surely OpenStack Days or meetups that they could support. | 14:33 |
| mihalis68 | Actually OpenStack Days east didn't happen - not enough sponsors around here. That's why finding people interested in sponsoring an ops meet up in particular was pretty exciting. | 14:34 |
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| aprice | o/ | 14:35 |
| mihalis68 | I understand that not all details can be presented in a proposal right now, but it seems like some guidelines could be - for example "central USA" and something about how the event will be extended to have a specific "track" for operators would make it something that could be approved by the community in my opinion | 14:35 |
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| aprice | sorry im late, but catching up here. our team is happy to coordinate with you mihalis68 on providing details to Verizon and Walmart so they understand the combined event. | 14:36 |
| jamesmcarthur | mihalis68, that's exactly what's been communicated AFAIK. A separate, co-located event in the Central US just for Ops. | 14:37 |
| aprice | it is exciting that they are interested in sponsoring, so we want to make sure they are fully in the loop on this event proposal. | 14:37 |
| mihalis68 | I think that's important. | 14:37 |
| aprice | With such great buy-in from the community, I imagine they will be onboard as they have sponsored the North America Summits that are not necessarily located on the East Coast. | 14:37 |
| mihalis68 | maybe I seem to be being difficult, but Bloomberg, for example (my employer) likes sponsoring ops meetups and declined to sponsor PTG | 14:37 |
| mihalis68 | so this combined event would need to be a credible replacement for the ops meet up in this slot for ops | 14:38 |
| aprice | this is what the modified event language will help, IMO | 14:38 |
| mihalis68 | given that, I would expect us to enthusiastically join in and I'd have every hope that verizon and walmart (and maybe others in NE USA) would to | 14:38 |
| mihalis68 | *too | 14:38 |
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| aprice | per jamesmcarthur's comment earlier, could this group provide suggested language that is more welcoming? otherwise, we can definitely draft something and collect feedback if that's easier | 14:39 |
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| mihalis68 | if we could get a draft of the language together I could meet again with the people in verizon, walrmart plus my line management and advocate throwing our support behind this event | 14:39 |
| aprice | i think that revised language may help both the sponsors and folks on the fence fully understand how the events will be combined | 14:39 |
| mihalis68 | yes exactly | 14:40 |
| jamesmcarthur | mihalis68: Are we in agreement that we have community buy-in for a co-located event? | 14:42 |
| mihalis68 | do you see the formerly-PTG-parts and the formerly-ops-meetups being entirely separate? Part of the impetus behind examining co-location had been comments e.g. from Sean M that the first 2 days of the event are really cross-community | 14:42 |
| mihalis68 | no I don't think we have that yet | 14:42 |
| jamesmcarthur | mihalis68: yes, as outlined, they will be completely separate events, with opportunities for cross-collaboration in the evening | 14:42 |
| jamesmcarthur | mihalis68: I didn't see any objections on the ML | 14:42 |
| jamesmcarthur | So I'm trying to understand how we don't have buy-in | 14:43 |
| mrhillsman | ^ | 14:43 |
| mihalis68 | without some definition of the event, there's nothing to agree to | 14:43 |
| mrhillsman | I was just reviewing it as well and it seems language changes can be extracted from it | 14:43 |
| mihalis68 | and for example I am not sure that 100% separate events is what was being proposed | 14:43 |
| aprice | mrhillsman: ++ | 14:44 |
| mihalis68 | Sean and others told me "Chris you should definitely come to PTG - days 1 and 2 anyway they are totally cross-community". Well if I'm at a "totally separate event" we seem to be missing a trick here | 14:44 |
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| smcginnis | That was before the conversations about combining events, TGF. | 14:45 |
| smcginnis | *TBF | 14:45 |
| jamesmcarthur | mihalis68: I believe they were communicating about the PTG. What we have proposed on the Ops Mailing list is a co-located event and agreed that we would rename/rebrand the event so that it's clear its' for both Ops and Devs | 14:45 |
| mihalis68 | seems to be two events, co-located | 14:46 |
| jamesmcarthur | This proposal is not about asking the Ops to attend the PTG. It's about co-locating the Ops Meetup with the PTG and creating a new event. | 14:46 |
| mihalis68 | if I attend with my ops hat on, I go to the ops meet up event? | 14:46 |
| jamesmcarthur | Where both Ops and Devs attend | 14:47 |
| jamesmcarthur | However, there is separate space for both groups. | 14:47 |
| mihalis68 | so how long is this event? | 14:47 |
| kendallwaters_ | 5 days | 14:47 |
| mihalis68 | Yeah, not good for me. ops meetups are 2 | 14:47 |
| jamesmcarthur | The Ops aren't obligated to be there for the full 5 days. Also, please keep in mind that this is a meetup for the entire Ops community. | 14:48 |
| shintaro | I'm getting confused, too. So the first 2 days are also separate event? | 14:48 |
| jamesmcarthur | It depends on the need of the groups that are meeting. | 14:48 |
| mihalis68 | We can't agree to support an event "details to be filled in later" | 14:48 |
| jamesmcarthur | Again, my reading of the mailing list was that the community already agreed to the concept. | 14:49 |
| mrhillsman | i think the point is we decide on the details | 14:49 |
| mihalis68 | those who saw and read one email thread, yes | 14:49 |
| jamesmcarthur | Correct. | 14:49 |
| jamesmcarthur | mihalis68: we also have a survey where 90% of the survey takers agreed that they would like to co-locate with the PTG | 14:49 |
| jamesmcarthur | Reasons cited: It would be easier to justify travel expenses | 14:50 |
| mrhillsman | and we discussed previously again, we would like logistics help with autonomy re schedule/details | 14:50 |
| jamesmcarthur | Right, this is an event for Ops, so ultimately you define teh event. 2 days, 3 days, 5 days... | 14:51 |
| jamesmcarthur | In fact, we'd love to know so we can reserve the right amount of space. | 14:51 |
| jamesmcarthur | And we're asking for your help in defining the language. | 14:51 |
| jamesmcarthur | Perhaps it would be helpful to jump on a Zoom so we can all discuss this face to face? | 14:52 |
| smcginnis | So how about this strawman. Monday and Tuesday are cross-project days where ops are welcome to attend SIG and other discussions, and if not interested can be travel days or whatever for them. Then Wed-Thurs are the two tracks/events where the ops folks have what has traditionally been done for ops meetups. Then Friday is a travel day or ops can stick around to follow up with dev-side things | 14:52 |
| smcginnis | that they weren't able to get to over the week or wanted to follow up on. | 14:52 |
| jamesmcarthur | Perfectly doable :) | 14:53 |
| shintaro | +1 to smcginnis much more clear | 14:53 |
| mrhillsman | +1 smcginnis | 14:53 |
| * jproulx1 also likes smcginnis strawman fwiw | 14:54 | |
| mihalis68 | that sounds good. I would want the "ops are welcome to attend" bit to be clearly stated | 14:54 |
| mihalis68 | this brings back the possibility of getting more out of this, which I liked | 14:54 |
| smcginnis | ++ | 14:54 |
| mrhillsman | mihalis68 i think we agreed to that ;) more than once hehe | 14:54 |
| mihalis68 | the "strictly separate" but "further away" proposal didn't seem like it gave me anything | 14:54 |
| mihalis68 | mrhillsman the details matter very much | 14:55 |
| mihalis68 | if there's two days that I'm invited to that are cross-community then great | 14:55 |
| mihalis68 | previously in todays meeting it was stated "completely separate" right? | 14:56 |
| jamesmcarthur | I was referring to meeting space reserved just for Ops meetings | 14:56 |
| mihalis68 | that didn't include that "mixing" that people thought would be so good (dev, ops all talking about shared concerns) | 14:56 |
| mrhillsman | I don't think that was in relation to messaging | 14:57 |
| jproulx1 | I like the "everyone is invited to everything but these 2 days are best if you only have 2 days to spend" which smcginnis proposal seems to imply | 14:57 |
| jamesmcarthur | Just so we're all clear, here's the proposal in teh email: | 14:57 |
| mrhillsman | hence my what have we not addressed already comment earlier | 14:57 |
| jamesmcarthur | In addition to those questions, we'd like to pitch an option for you for the next Ops Meetup. The upcoming PTG is the week of September 10 in North America. We have an opportunity to co-locate the Ops Meetup at the PTG. | 14:57 |
| jamesmcarthur | If the Ops community was interested in this, we would have separate space with your own sessions and separate branding for the Ops attendees. This would also involve updating the language on the OpenStack website and potentially renaming the PTG to something more inclusive to both groups. | 14:57 |
| jamesmcarthur | Evenings at a co-located event would allow for relationship building and problem sharing. We're pitching this as a way to bring these two groups together, while still allowing them to have distinct productive events. That said, we're in no way trying to force the situation. If, as a group, you decide you'd prefer to continue managing these events on your own, we're happy to support that in wha | 14:57 |
| jamesmcarthur | tever way we can. | 14:57 |
| jamesmcarthur | The format of the event is really up to you all. I think smcginnis' plan is quite good. | 14:58 |
| jamesmcarthur | But it can be defined in whatever way suits the Ops community. | 14:58 |
| mihalis68 | the above is fine. Earlier in todays chat I though you were confirming that the events were separate for the full duration. But I prefer the idea in Sean's proposal | 15:00 |
| jamesmcarthur | So, it sounds like we are all in agreement that an Ops Meetup colocated in the Central US with the Project Teams is approved? | 15:00 |
| smcginnis | I am hoping this will result in some discussion in a SIG taking place on Monday, some talk about some of the plans on Wed, then while having beers Wednesday night someone from the "ops" side and someone from the "dev" side being able to say, "hey, that thing we talked about earlier, so and so brought up X today that I think would make that even better." | 15:01 |
| mihalis68 | actually I think we should inform the mailing list that this is the direction one more time | 15:01 |
| jamesmcarthur | mihalis68: would you like to take that on and chime in on the thread? | 15:02 |
| mihalis68 | You can't really take the discussion so far as definitive for the community IMO | 15:02 |
| mihalis68 | yeah. I might say "object by end of week" if that is ok with everyone | 15:02 |
| mihalis68 | normally id say next meeting however I'll be in iceland and not IRCing | 15:03 |
| shintaro | +1 | 15:03 |
| mrhillsman | ++ | 15:03 |
| smcginnis | +1 | 15:03 |
| mihalis68 | ok I shall do so. | 15:03 |
| mihalis68 | I'll probably talk to my contacts just before I do so. If they are strong yes that will make it more emphatic | 15:04 |
| mihalis68 | Hmmm, did anyone make this an IRC meeting? | 15:04 |
| mihalis68 | it's quite consequential and I forgot to do that | 15:04 |
| mihalis68 | if not I'll find another way to share the transcript | 15:04 |
| mihalis68 | hmmm, but I don't have the first 10 minutes | 15:05 |
| mihalis68 | can someone else share this meeting text somehow? | 15:05 |
| mrhillsman | yep, I can | 15:05 |
| mrhillsman | will post to ML? | 15:06 |
| mihalis68 | great, thanks! | 15:06 |
| shintaro | it should be under #link http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/irclogs/%23openstack-operators/ | 15:06 |
| mihalis68 | even though we didn't hash start meeting? | 15:06 |
| mihalis68 | did not know that | 15:06 |
| mrhillsman | I think so | 15:06 |
| shintaro | everything is recorded :) | 15:06 |
| mihalis68 | cool | 15:06 |
| mrhillsman | lol | 15:06 |
| mrhillsman | big brother openstack eh | 15:07 |
| mihalis68 | recorded but open | 15:07 |
| mihalis68 | quite a bit different | 15:07 |
| smcginnis | We could ask infra to put part of it under the meeting logs I think. | 15:07 |
| smcginnis | If it matters that much. Otherwise we can just point to the IRC channel logs. | 15:07 |
| mihalis68 | hate to burden anyone, but for todays meeting feels important/worth it | 15:08 |
| mihalis68 | I think it does | 15:08 |
| mrhillsman | I can follow up with infra | 15:08 |
| mihalis68 | for the record, I'm going to chime in on the thread, but I will also make a separate new post which tries to call attention to an important change in the ground rules of the meetups in general. Having links will be helpful for that in particular | 15:09 |
| mihalis68 | big thanks to Sean for the strawman | 15:09 |
| mihalis68 | it made the proposal concrete, something I could sell to my boss | 15:10 |
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| smcginnis | Heh, no problem. | 15:10 |
| shintaro | yeah thanks | 15:10 |
| smcginnis | Glad it helped to solidify things. :) | 15:10 |
| mihalis68 | I actually was thinking of pinging you privately and asking for something like that believe it or not | 15:10 |
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| mihalis68 | alright... see you all on the mailing list a bit later, and perhaps at a mystery location in Central USA in September! | 15:11 |
| shintaro | thank you all | 15:11 |
| jamesmcarthur | thanks everyone | 15:11 |
| smcginnis | mihalis68: Thanks for taking on the ML piece. Will be good to get things finalized one way or the other, but I'm hoping we can all meet up somewhere in September. | 15:11 |
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| mihalis68 | my pleasure. Sorry if I seem to be difficult here | 15:12 |
| smcginnis | Good to make sure everyone is on the same page. | 15:13 |
| smcginnis | If anyone needs it, here is the start of today's IRC logs - http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/irclogs/%23openstack-operators/%23openstack-operators.2018-03-27.log.html#t2018-03-27T14:03:40 | 15:13 |
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| mrhillsman | you're not being difficult, things were just not landing home from your perspective | 15:15 |
| mrhillsman | valuable indeed as we have strawman now :) | 15:16 |
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| smcginnis | mihalis68: Good write up of the proposal. | 18:04 |
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