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| fungi | no storyboard meeting this week, but find us in #storyboard if you have any questions | 18:19 |
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| efried | #startmeeting nova | 21:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Thu Nov 21 21:00:00 2019 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is efried. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 21:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 21:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: nova)" | 21:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'nova' | 21:00 |
| mriedem | o/ | 21:00 |
| melwitt | o/ | 21:00 |
| efried | Hello both of you! | 21:01 |
| bcm | o/ hello. Though I might chime in with some questions about a review if you have time | 21:01 |
| efried | Hi bcm, glad to have you. Saw your name on the agenda. | 21:01 |
| efried | though you better not let dansmith see that you put it in "stuck reviews" rather than "open discussion". | 21:02 |
| efried | okay, might as well get started | 21:02 |
| efried | #link agenda https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/Nova#Agenda_for_next_meeting | 21:02 |
| bcm | efried: ah cool. Hmm. Thought it qualified as one. Ok | 21:02 |
| efried | maybe it does. I'm mostly being facetious. | 21:03 |
| bcm | :) | 21:03 |
| efried | It's been nearly a month since we had a meeting, what with PTG/summit fore- and aftermath, DST shift (f DST) etc. | 21:03 |
| efried | on that note: | 21:03 |
| efried | #topic Last meeting (4 weeks ago) | 21:03 |
| efried | #link Minutes from last meeting: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova/2019/nova.2019-10-24-21.00.html | 21:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Last meeting (4 weeks ago) (Meeting topic: nova)" | 21:03 | |
| efried | any ol biniss? | 21:03 |
| *** openstack has joined #openstack-meeting | 21:15 | |
| *** ChanServ sets mode: +o openstack | 21:15 | |
| efried | Is there anything else we can accomplish herenow? | 21:15 |
| bcm | So, and pardon my ignorance, but does the current review look like it could be made acceptable | 21:15 |
| efried | wrt that patch, bcm? | 21:15 |
| bcm | or are substantial changes required to achieve something thats "right" ? | 21:15 |
| bcm | Just wondering what the best course of action is going forward to close off the bug | 21:16 |
| efried | (I definitely don't have enough background/context to be able to weigh in btw, I'm just sitting here with the gavel) | 21:17 |
| bcm | mriedem any thoughts? you seem pretty well versed in this area. | 21:17 |
| efried | It looks like lyarwood was tracking this for a while; maybe he could be poked again now that we're post-ptg? | 21:17 |
| mriedem | i would have to load this all back in my head, | 21:18 |
| mriedem | but i saw a few people flounder for over a year trying to get CI working | 21:18 |
| mriedem | so i'm not sure i trust what it's donig | 21:18 |
| mriedem | *doing | 21:18 |
| bcm | right ok | 21:18 |
| mriedem | need gorka to weigh in from a cinder pov | 21:18 |
| bcm | efried: when/where is lyarwood usually contactable? | 21:18 |
| mriedem | since he basically told me what i was doing in my change, which was similar to this, was wrong | 21:19 |
| mriedem | bcm: he's UK | 21:19 |
| efried | For the sake of the minutes: Bug #1452641 | 21:19 |
| mriedem | or ireland? | 21:19 |
| melwitt | UK | 21:19 |
| mriedem | same thing am i right?! | 21:19 |
| bcm | mriedem: I did bring this up in the cinder meeting yesterday, but they didn't have much to say | 21:19 |
| efried | hello? bug 1452641 | 21:19 |
| * mriedem dodges a bottle | 21:19 | |
| melwitt | lol | 21:19 |
| efried | bots are ill. | 21:19 |
| efried | #link Static Ceph mon IP addresses in connection_info can prevent VM startup https://bugs.launchpad.net/nova/+bug/1452641 | 21:20 |
| efried | anyway, yeah, when I see things about ceph, I think of lyarwood and maaaybe dansmith. | 21:20 |
| openstack | bug 1452641 in nova (Ubuntu) "Static Ceph mon IP addresses in connection_info can prevent VM startup" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1452641 - Assigned to Corey Bryant (corey.bryant) | 21:21 |
| efried | nice | 21:21 |
| efried | bcm: perhaps another way to resurrect interest would be to respond to that ML thread. | 21:21 |
| melwitt | I'm the ceph janitor, I watch the ceph job and help fix it when it breaks | 21:21 |
| efried | with your handy dandy bottle of ceph turpentine | 21:21 |
| efried | Okay, I guess we should move on, you good for now bcm? | 21:22 |
| bcm | efried: ok sounds good | 21:22 |
| bcm | yep i'm good | 21:22 |
| efried | k | 21:23 |
| bcm | thanks efried mriedem and all | 21:23 |
| efried | #topic Open discussion | 21:23 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: nova)" | 21:23 | |
| efried | (mriedem): Thoughts on exposing exception type to non-admins in instance action event http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-discuss/2019-November/010775.html | 21:23 |
| efried | Is this still open mriedem? | 21:23 |
| mriedem | i have some poc patches up, | 21:23 |
| mriedem | mdbooth and melwitt commented | 21:23 |
| mriedem | there is some work to do if it's desirable but i won't push on it unless people think it's useful | 21:24 |
| melwitt | this email says "store type" but the patch is storing the entire message? | 21:24 |
| melwitt | I'm not sure whether it's useful bc I'm not that familiar with ppl using instance action events | 21:25 |
| mriedem | yeah i changed it b/c the feeling in the ML thread was that just the type isn't useful since you need a decoder to know wtf the types mean | 21:25 |
| melwitt | ah ok | 21:25 |
| mriedem | so i changed to store the same thing as the fault message we store | 21:25 |
| melwitt | if someone thinks it's useful, sure why not | 21:25 |
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| melwitt | but I haven't heard anything from our customers about that before | 21:25 |
| mriedem | the impetus was because we changed resize/cold migrate to do an rpc cast rather than call from the api to conductor, | 21:25 |
| efried | Heck, if it's the whole message, I'm totally on board. I thought we couldn't do that for some kind of security reason tho. | 21:25 |
| mriedem | so we lost the "fast" novalidhost scheduling failures you could get for resize and cold migarte | 21:25 |
| mriedem | so i figured, you can just get that info from instance actoins, | 21:26 |
| mriedem | but they don't contain details, just that some part of the operation failed | 21:26 |
| mriedem | efried: security wise it's no worse than anything we expose out of the server fault message if the server is in ERROR status | 21:26 |
| melwitt | don't you normally just nova show the instance and see the details? | 21:27 |
| mriedem | which was mdbooth's concern (leaking details) but melwitt pointed out ^ we already have that problem | 21:27 |
| mriedem | melwitt: for what? faults? | 21:27 |
| melwitt | yeah, if resize failed | 21:27 |
| mriedem | we only expose the server fault if the server status is ERROR or DELETED | 21:27 |
| melwitt | don't you get error instance and look at fault? | 21:27 |
| mriedem | if you fail scheduling during resize, the server status doesn't go to ERROR | 21:27 |
| melwitt | oh I see ok | 21:27 |
| mriedem | no reason to error out the server if we didnt' touch it | 21:27 |
| mriedem | that's what instance actions are for | 21:28 |
| melwitt | so... the user doesn't know the resize failed? | 21:28 |
| mriedem | they don't get a 400 response for NoValidHost during scheduling anymore | 21:28 |
| mriedem | but they wouldn't know if say the resize_claim on the dest compute failed either (from the API response) | 21:28 |
| mriedem | actions are for the results of parts of the operatoin | 21:28 |
| mriedem | so there is a compute_prep_resize event for example | 21:29 |
| mriedem | either that is success or error, but if error there are no details | 21:29 |
| dansmith | we were doing scheduling synchronously with the call to resize before, | 21:29 |
| mriedem | hence my proposal | 21:29 |
| dansmith | which backs us into a corner for complex things like cross-cell resize | 21:29 |
| melwitt | I think I'm gonna have to read up on this. bc on the surface it sounds like we lost the ability to tell the user their resize failed | 21:29 |
| dansmith | no, | 21:29 |
| dansmith | only only signal for one situation became less obvious | 21:30 |
| dansmith | mriedem: for that matter, the async schedule task could also just error the instance just like a failure later in resize would right? | 21:30 |
| mriedem | dansmith: depends on where the resize fails | 21:31 |
| mriedem | if we haven't touched the guest, we don't put the instance into error status | 21:31 |
| mriedem | if finish_resize on the dest fails, yes the instance goes to ERROR status | 21:31 |
| melwitt | yeah I'm just... this goes back to the whole task API thing. in a lot of cases we kind of have to put the instance into ERROR just to signal that something didn't work | 21:31 |
| mriedem | if resize_claim fails, we don't | 21:31 |
| dansmith | okay, then nevermind | 21:31 |
| melwitt | even if we didn't "touch" the instance | 21:31 |
| mriedem | melwitt: actions are our poor version of the tasks api | 21:31 |
| dansmith | yeah, actions are fine for this | 21:31 |
| dansmith | it would be better if they were used more for determining success | 21:32 |
| melwitt | how does someone know to go look at actions? because that's not a normal part of most users workflow as far as I have known | 21:32 |
| dansmith | melwitt: it should be | 21:32 |
| melwitt | actions used to be this forgotten API | 21:32 |
| mriedem | right, it should be, | 21:32 |
| melwitt | ok... I dunno about that | 21:32 |
| mriedem | i write actions checking into my functional tests quite a bit | 21:32 |
| melwitt | that's gonna take some user re-education | 21:32 |
| mriedem | especially b/c end users can't listen for notifications | 21:32 |
| melwitt | put it in the release notes, "you really need to look at this now" | 21:33 |
| mriedem | like we do in a lot of our functional tests | 21:33 |
| dansmith | melwitt: well, the problem is before actions, we had a very inconsistent reporting, where only severe errors could really be signaled, | 21:33 |
| dansmith | and we have things like this, | 21:33 |
| efried | If that's what it's for, and it's a matter of education, then we really shouldn't paper over it by making it unnecessary again. | 21:33 |
| dansmith | where the architecture of the system relies on returning a synchronous result for a scheduling operation which could take minutes | 21:33 |
| mriedem | we've also had innumerable bugs like "server goes to ERROR status even though nothing changed" | 21:33 |
| efried | instead we should respond to such bugs with said education. | 21:33 |
| mriedem | and some clouds get a page when something goes to ERROR | 21:33 |
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| melwitt | I'm fine with that, just yeah, want the heads up in the release notes. at least MHO | 21:34 |
| dansmith | mriedem's change from sync to async on this one thing did have a reno | 21:34 |
| melwitt | *fine with re-education being the way forward. just needs to be communicated | 21:34 |
| dansmith | I dunno if it provided a handholding recipe for checking actions, but.. | 21:34 |
| melwitt | just a link to the api-ref or such is fine I think | 21:35 |
| mriedem | https://review.opendev.org/#/c/693937/2/releasenotes/notes/resize-api-cast-always-7eb1dbef8f7fe228.yaml | 21:35 |
| patchbot | patch 693937 - nova - Make API always RPC cast to conductor for resize/m... (MERGED) - 2 patch sets | 21:35 |
| melwitt | but just, I know from when I was at yahoo, no user knew about the instance actions API or needed to. this is a change in thinking, at least for me. even myself as a user, would not think to look at instance actions as part of my normal usage | 21:35 |
| dansmith | mriedem: of course | 21:36 |
| efried | make that last line a hyperlink mriedem and we're golden. | 21:36 |
| dansmith | that's how a user knows anything other than current status though | 21:36 |
| mriedem | at yahoo you probably had enough external plugin APIs to do all the backend reporting for operations so you didn't need the actoins API :) | 21:36 |
| melwitt | ok. sorry for the tangent. back to the point, if this is the place to let someone know why the resize failed, I think adding the error message to the instance action is a good idea | 21:36 |
| melwitt | mriedem: haha, you'd think so, but no. it was just, instance is in ERROR, nova show the instance | 21:37 |
| mriedem | ok i think these coffee shop people want me out and my battery is about to die so wrapping up? | 21:38 |
| efried | okay | 21:38 |
| efried | (luyao): Does vpmem live migration work need a blueprint? | 21:38 |
| efried | I think we said "yes" | 21:38 |
| dansmith | please | 21:38 |
| dansmith | for the love | 21:38 |
| dansmith | of crap | 21:38 |
| dansmith | yes it does | 21:38 |
| efried | because if nothing else it involves RPC obj changes | 21:38 |
| efried | okay, anything else before we close? | 21:39 |
| melwitt | I think blueprint needed is a given | 21:39 |
| dansmith | I think efried meant spec | 21:39 |
| melwitt | spec is the one we say not always needed | 21:39 |
| melwitt | oh ok | 21:39 |
| dansmith | because data model changes, if nothing else | 21:39 |
| mriedem | that's also old business | 21:39 |
| dansmith | yes | 21:39 |
| mriedem | we told them multinode ci with cold migrate as table stakes | 21:39 |
| mriedem | then come talk to us | 21:39 |
| efried | oh yeah, I remember now. | 21:39 |
| dansmith | efried: please put me out of your misery | 21:39 |
| efried | Didn't clear it from agenda | 21:40 |
| efried | Thanks all. o/ | 21:40 |
| efried | #endmeeting | 21:40 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/" | 21:40 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Thu Nov 21 21:40:03 2019 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 21:40 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova/2019/nova.2019-11-21-21.00.html | 21:40 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova/2019/nova.2019-11-21-21.00.txt | 21:40 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova/2019/nova.2019-11-21-21.00.log.html | 21:40 |
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