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| ttx | dhellmann, smcginnis around? | 15:01 |
|---|---|---|
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| dhellmann | o/ | 15:01 |
| ttx | shall I chair? | 15:01 |
| dhellmann | sure | 15:01 |
| ttx | #startmeeting releaseteam | 15:02 |
| openstack | Meeting started Fri Mar 9 15:02:11 2018 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is ttx. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 15:02 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 15:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: releaseteam)" | 15:02 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'releaseteam' | 15:02 |
| ttx | Ping list: dhellmann, dims, fungi, tonyb, lbragstad, smcginnis, armstrong | 15:02 |
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| ttx | Agenda https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/rocky-relmgt-tracking R-25 | 15:02 |
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| ttx | A few topics I added | 15:03 |
| dhellmann | I can't remember if we're ready to take the default series patch now or if that should wait for the finals for the trailing projects | 15:03 |
| ttx | There is a default series patch https://review.openstack.org/#/c/548564/ | 15:03 |
| ttx | right that was my question | 15:03 |
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| ttx | At this point I'd just wait until next week and approve it once we are past cycle-trailing deadline | 15:04 |
| dhellmann | yeah, that seems safest | 15:04 |
| ttx | but there might be good reasons not to | 15:04 |
| dhellmann | let me look at where that value is used again... | 15:04 |
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| dhellmann | there are some validation rules that only apply to the "current" release | 15:05 |
| dhellmann | so it's probably best to wait to approve it | 15:05 |
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| dhellmann | we should probably change that set of rules to be a bit more flexible | 15:05 |
| dhellmann | and say they don't apply to "old" releases instead of that they only apply to the "current" release | 15:06 |
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| ttx | ack | 15:06 |
| dhellmann | so after we approve https://review.openstack.org/550678 we can update the default safely | 15:06 |
| ttx | #agreed let's wait until past cycle-trailing deadline to approve https://review.openstack.org/#/c/548564/ | 15:06 |
| ttx | #topic Packaging as part of "the release" / cycle-trailing | 15:06 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Packaging as part of "the release" / cycle-trailing (Meeting topic: releaseteam)" | 15:07 | |
| dhellmann | I'm not sure what this topic is about | 15:07 |
| ttx | So there was a bit of a mismatch with release comms around new projects | 15:07 |
| ttx | They were assumed as part of the release but were not | 15:07 |
| ttx | For some it's pretty clear cut | 15:07 |
| ttx | For others it's a bit more confusing | 15:08 |
| ttx | They all failed the milestone-2 inclusion deadline | 15:08 |
| dhellmann | ah, yes, we talked about documenting the policy for that more clearly | 15:09 |
| ttx | But that made me wonder... | 15:09 |
| ttx | Like for LOCI or openstack-helm, they will do a queens release | 15:09 |
| ttx | since that is downstream, that will happen cycle-trailing, probably later than the deadline | 15:09 |
| dhellmann | we do separate those trailing projects out on the release pages: https://releases.openstack.org/queens/index.html#projects-trailing-the-release-cycle | 15:10 |
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| ttx | I guess my question is.. is the milestone-2 deadline of any value for cycle-trailing stuff | 15:10 |
| ttx | *And* | 15:10 |
| ttx | shoudl we open up the cycle-trailing to more than two weeks | 15:11 |
| dhellmann | hmm | 15:11 |
| ttx | boils down to the "what is the release" question. We use teh term for a series and a coordinated release. | 15:11 |
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| fungi | it has some impact on signing key rotation as well | 15:11 |
| dhellmann | I'm comfortable being pretty relaxed with the deployment tools | 15:12 |
| dhellmann | I think people consider those more "compatible with" or "for" a series than "part of" the series. | 15:12 |
| ttx | Would not be crazy to consider packaging to not be part of the release anyway | 15:12 |
| dhellmann | right | 15:12 |
| ttx | (release in the coordinated release sense) | 15:12 |
| fungi | we'd have to decide whether we want to continue to delay swapping out the signing key until all cycle-trailing releases are complete, or just live with the fact that some cycle-trailing queens releases will get signed by the rocky cycle key | 15:12 |
| dhellmann | fungi : interesting point. I thought those were mostly time based, though? I mean, we will use the rocky key to sign queens patch releases, right? | 15:12 |
| ttx | For example release communications mention openstack-helm and LOCI being new options, while tehy are technically not out yet | 15:13 |
| fungi | dhellmann: correct, so it's not much of a leap to just continue with the normal schedule | 15:13 |
| fungi | from a key rotation perspective | 15:13 |
| dhellmann | ttx: oh, we don't even have betas of those? | 15:13 |
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| ttx | we don't have tags yet, so hard to tell :) | 15:14 |
| dhellmann | fungi : right | 15:14 |
| ttx | I feel like at this stage it's more master benig WIP for queens | 15:14 |
| ttx | being | 15:14 |
| dhellmann | yeah | 15:14 |
| ttx | IIRC they said that they were still catching up and won't be ready to be aligned with our deadlines before R | 15:14 |
| ttx | which is far, but I wonder what is the value of saying it's not there | 15:15 |
| ttx | fair | 15:15 |
| dhellmann | it's unfortunate that we've announced that they are options before they really are, but I guess they can be used from source so maybe the tag is less important there | 15:15 |
| ttx | vs. just saying we have a release and a bunch of packaging for it that comes out later | 15:15 |
| dhellmann | right, I think it's ok to say that packaging and deployment tools are "for" a series and may come out after the actual software | 15:16 |
| ttx | dhellmann: they probably are options already. Just not tagged. | 15:16 |
| dhellmann | right | 15:16 |
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| dhellmann | so you mentioned extending the 2 week period, too? | 15:16 |
| ttx | dhellmann: I wonder what is the value of enforcing a short delay | 15:16 |
| ttx | Like if openstack-helm feels ready to bless their release 3 weeks after, it's probably better to include them rather than pretend they don't exist at all | 15:17 |
| dhellmann | yeah. I guess initially we wanted to have the deployment projects working closely with the other projects all along, but 2 weeks has always felt a little tight. | 15:17 |
| dhellmann | do we want to drop the deadline entirely? | 15:18 |
| ttx | Well initially we also wanted to see everything as being a single "release" | 15:18 |
| dhellmann | true | 15:18 |
| ttx | now that we have more clearly delineated what is the thing and what is packaging for the thing... opens up options | 15:18 |
| dhellmann | the only concern I have about changing deadlines is the effect of branching, or not, at the right time | 15:18 |
| ttx | We won't solve it now, just wanted to raise it while fresh | 15:18 |
| dhellmann | most of those projects don't say they follow the stable policy, so they could branch early and backport fixes, but that feels like making extra work for them | 15:19 |
| dhellmann | it may take a bit more thought to figure out whether there is a big impact on them, or if they would have to take any special precaution after a series is branched | 15:20 |
| ttx | Like LOCI will likely want to tag their 1.0.0 anytime now | 15:20 |
| ttx | Not sure there is much value in not including them | 15:20 |
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| ttx | There is value in not adding main components too late | 15:20 |
| dhellmann | I'm fine with extending the deadline for an initial release | 15:20 |
| ttx | sice that affects said packagers | 15:21 |
| ttx | BUT adding packaging systems... | 15:21 |
| dhellmann | maybe we say they have to release for Q before the end of R? | 15:21 |
| ttx | dhellmann: that sounds reasonable | 15:21 |
| dhellmann | I don't think we want it completely open ended, and that's a pretty generous deadline. | 15:21 |
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| ttx | Basically our pre-milestone-2 inclusion rule is there to protect packagers | 15:22 |
| rosmaita | maybe R-3, so the gate doesnt get extra clogged at rc-tine | 15:22 |
| ttx | Not to ignore them | 15:22 |
| * EmilienM hides | 15:22 | |
| clarkb | one thing we've done on the infra side is try to accomodate main release and trailing releases with things like gerrit upgrades and project renames and so on | 15:22 |
| dhellmann | rosmaita : sure, that makes sense | 15:22 |
| clarkb | if we update that maybe we need to have an infra update window clearly defiend so that people are aware of when those might happen | 15:22 |
| dhellmann | clarkb : I think we'd all benefit from that, yes. | 15:23 |
| rosmaita | (meaning milestone-3 not release-3) | 15:23 |
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| dhellmann | right | 15:23 |
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| dhellmann | ttx: do you want to propose the change in the deadlines for queens and rocky? I guess we need to update the description of the release model, too. | 15:24 |
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| ttx | dhellmann: I can drive that yes. Not sure we want that deadline on the schedule page since that would make the table VERY long | 15:25 |
| ttx | dhellmann: apparently LOCI is discussing their release on #openstack-loci right now | 15:26 |
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| dhellmann | ttx: I think we could have the deadline without the intervening weeks | 15:29 |
| ttx | yeah that's what I was thinking | 15:29 |
| ttx | And maybe change the wording on release pages, rather than say trailing, say packaging for | 15:30 |
| dhellmann | change the name of the model? or just the headings on the page? | 15:31 |
| ttx | since that's a 1:1 | 15:31 |
| ttx | Let's say heading on page for now | 15:31 |
| dhellmann | sure, that's an easy one | 15:31 |
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| ttx | Now that we said that only packaging stuff can use cycle-trailing... | 15:32 |
| dhellmann | the model isn't hard, but I think there's a place where we have a check for "cycle" in the name so if we change it to something like "packaging-tool" we would need to find that spot | 15:32 |
| ttx | yeah | 15:32 |
| dhellmann | we could make it cycle-packaging but meh | 15:32 |
| ttx | yeah, at this point cycle-packaging might just be simpler :_ | 15:34 |
| ttx | OK, the last topic I had was around task tracking, but I'd rather wait for our fearless leader return | 15:35 |
| dhellmann | yeah, that's one for us to discuss together | 15:35 |
| dhellmann | did the patch to enable storyboard for the releases repo land? | 15:35 |
| ttx | not sure | 15:36 |
| dhellmann | no: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/548928/ | 15:36 |
| dhellmann | maybe fungi can put that on his review queue ^^ | 15:36 |
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| dhellmann | or clarkb | 15:37 |
| fungi | sure | 15:37 |
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| dhellmann | no particular rush, but it should be an easy one | 15:37 |
| fungi | oh, i was the one who proposed it | 15:37 |
| dhellmann | oh, duh | 15:37 |
| fungi | but clarkb or someone could approve it ;) | 15:37 |
| fungi | once it merges i can import the reno bugs too | 15:38 |
| dhellmann | that would be good, thank you | 15:38 |
| fungi | and then we can close down the reno tracker on lp | 15:38 |
| dhellmann | ++ | 15:38 |
| dhellmann | I can do the LP side I think | 15:38 |
| dhellmann | do we have docs for that? or is it just a matter of closing the bugs and turning off the bug tracker in LP? | 15:39 |
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| fungi | basically that, but i think there are some recommendations/checklist recorded for it | 15:40 |
| fungi | diablo_rojo: ^ you probably remember? | 15:41 |
| clarkb | I can take a look at it | 15:41 |
| fungi | like, add a url to the new bug tracking location in the lp project description | 15:41 |
| fungi | just general suggestions to help users find the new location more easily | 15:41 |
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| dhellmann | sure, that makes sense | 15:42 |
| dhellmann | hmm, does someone have to register with the foundation in order to file a story on storyboard? | 15:43 |
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| clarkb | should I hold off on approving it for the migratio nto be sorted out? | 15:43 |
| fungi | #link https://docs.openstack.org/infra/storyboard/migration.html#recently-migrated | 15:43 |
| clarkb | dhellmann: no it is using ubuntuone right now | 15:43 |
| dhellmann | clarkb : nah, I'll work with fungi on coordinating the reno bugs | 15:43 |
| clarkb | so same accounts as lp | 15:43 |
| dhellmann | ok, good | 15:44 |
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| dhellmann | I wonder if we can also make that work with github or something, just for storyboard, so anyone can file bugs easily | 15:44 |
| dhellmann | at least after we move it over to the foundation auth provider | 15:44 |
| fungi | we haven't switched the sb auth away from lp yet, and now there's some further considerations as we start hosting other communities besides openstack | 15:44 |
| dhellmann | yeah | 15:44 |
| fungi | so, yes, taking lots of that into account | 15:45 |
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| dhellmann | I'm also thinking of users of some of these tools outside of the main community entirely | 15:45 |
| fungi | right | 15:45 |
| dhellmann | ok, it sounds like you've thought about all of this already | 15:45 |
| clarkb | fungi: and no reason to hold off approving on your side? | 15:45 |
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| fungi | clarkb: no reason--go for it | 15:46 |
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| rosmaita | i have a question before we adjourn | 15:49 |
| dhellmann | rosmaita : sure, what's up? | 15:49 |
| rosmaita | https://docs.openstack.org/glance/latest/contributor/release-cpl.html#final-releases | 15:49 |
| rosmaita | first bullet point | 15:49 |
| rosmaita | is that still a thing? | 15:49 |
| dhellmann | you could do that, but I don't think you have to | 15:50 |
| dhellmann | not all projects bump their major version number each cycle | 15:50 |
| rosmaita | is the problem that until milestione 1, development will still be happening in 16.x not 17.x (for glance) | 15:52 |
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| dhellmann | yes, that will affect anyone trying to package from the queens branch and master and test upgrades using those packages | 15:52 |
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| rosmaita | ok, so it may be a useful thing to do? i dont' know that we have ever actually done it | 15:53 |
| dhellmann | the folks at red hat raised that, but I think we figured out a way to fix it in their pipeline without doing things upstream | 15:53 |
| rosmaita | ok, i may just remove it from the contributor docs so i won;t keep asking about it every cycle | 15:54 |
| dhellmann | I wouldn't worry too much about it unless someone actually has a problem; I don't think any of the other projects do it. | 15:54 |
| dhellmann | :-) | 15:54 |
| rosmaita | works for me, thanks! | 15:54 |
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| ttx | alright | 15:56 |
| ttx | Time to close | 15:56 |
| ttx | Anything else ? | 15:56 |
| fungi | i've generated and uploaded the rocky cycle signing key to the keyserver network (it's only signed by the queens key so far, i'll be attesting to it and uploading my own signature shortly, then socializing it with the rest of the infra-root team to do the same) | 15:56 |
| fungi | #link https://sks-keyservers.net/pks/lookup?op=vindex&search=0xc31292066be772022438222c184fd3e1edf21a78&fingerprint=on Rocky Cycle Signing Key | 15:56 |
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| fungi | it may not be on all the keyservers yet so might take a refresh or two at the moment to see it | 15:57 |
| fungi | just uploaded around 45 minutes ago | 15:57 |
| ttx | ack keep us posted when you signed it | 15:57 |
| fungi | will let you know in #openstack-release yes | 15:57 |
| ttx | alright | 15:57 |
| ttx | Time to close | 15:57 |
| ttx | Anything else ? | 15:57 |
| ttx | :) | 15:57 |
| dhellmann | nothing from me | 15:58 |
| ttx | #endmeeting | 15:58 |
| dmsimard | fungi: I guess it is... but is the process for signing that key documented somewhere ? | 15:58 |
| fungi | nada | 15:58 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/" | 15:58 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Fri Mar 9 15:58:07 2018 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 15:58 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/releaseteam/2018/releaseteam.2018-03-09-15.02.html | 15:58 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/releaseteam/2018/releaseteam.2018-03-09-15.02.txt | 15:58 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/releaseteam/2018/releaseteam.2018-03-09-15.02.log.html | 15:58 |
| dmsimard | (We can follow up in #openstack-infra) | 15:58 |
| fungi | dmsimard: https://docs.openstack.org/infra/system-config/signing.html#attestation | 15:58 |
| dmsimard | fungi: thanks | 15:58 |
| fungi | and yes, #openstack-infra for further questions | 15:58 |
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| diablo_rojo | fungi, dhellmann just saw the ping. I see you found the docs on migration. Bsaically you just disable bug reporting and update the description to point to the new storyboard project. | 17:37 |
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| fungi | thanks diablo_rojo | 17:37 |
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| dhellmann | diablo_rojo : that's easy enough, thanks for following up! | 17:53 |
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| diablo_rojo | dhellmann, no problem :) | 17:56 |
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