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| darrenc | hello everyone | 00:31 |
|---|---|---|
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| darrenc | So who's here for the docs meeting? | 00:31 |
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| katomo | o/ | 00:33 |
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| darrenc | hi katomo | 00:33 |
| darrenc | lana is away today, so I'm filling in for her | 00:34 |
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| katomo | okay. thanks. | 00:34 |
| darrenc | we'll wait a few minutes to see who else turns up | 00:34 |
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| darrenc | recheck: anyone here for the docs meeting? | 00:39 |
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| darrenc | katomo: looks like it's just you and I | 00:40 |
| darrenc | not enough to constitute a quorum | 00:41 |
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| darrenc | ok, let's cancel the meeting | 00:42 |
| katomo | yeah | 00:43 |
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| ramishra | #startmeeting heat | 08:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Aug 10 08:00:08 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is ramishra. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 08:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 08:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: heat)" | 08:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'heat' | 08:00 |
| ramishra | #topic Roll call | 08:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Roll call (Meeting topic: heat)" | 08:00 | |
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| huangtianhua | hi | 08:01 |
| prazumovsky | hi | 08:01 |
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| ramishra | skraynev, stevebaker around? | 08:02 |
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| ramishra | hmm.. seems we don't have many in attendance today. | 08:04 |
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| ramishra | we should finish this quickly:) | 08:05 |
| ramishra | #topic Adding items to agenda | 08:05 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Adding items to agenda (Meeting topic: heat)" | 08:05 | |
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| ramishra | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/HeatAgenda#Agenda_.282016-08-10_0800_UTC.29 | 08:05 |
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| svkr | hi all | 08:06 |
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| ramishra | #topic Gate status | 08:06 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Gate status (Meeting topic: heat)" | 08:06 | |
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| ramishra | gate was broken 2 days back with neutron issues. | 08:07 |
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| shardy | o/ | 08:07 |
| * shardy sorry for being late | 08:07 | |
| ramishra | it seems fine from yesterday, ofcourse with the known failures | 08:07 |
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| ramishra | shardy hi | 08:08 |
| ramishra | #topic N3 status | 08:08 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "N3 status (Meeting topic: heat)" | 08:08 | |
| ramishra | # link https://launchpad.net/heat/+milestone/newton-3 | 08:08 |
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| ramishra | there are plenty of stuff in the review queue, we should try land the conditions patches. | 08:09 |
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| shardy | I'm still confused re the status of https://bugs.launchpad.net/heat/+bug/1592374 | 08:10 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1592374 in heat "deleting in_progress stack with nested stacks fails with convergence enabled" [High,Confirmed] | 08:10 |
| ramishra | shardy: it's not fixed yet. | 08:10 |
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| shardy | To me it's a critical, release blocking regression, and it's been unassigned for two months | 08:10 |
| ramishra | Last I know, anant was working on a patch on top of zane's series. | 08:10 |
| shardy | ramishra: what's the plan if it can't be fixed before release, switch back to non-convergence by default? | 08:11 |
| skraynev_ | shardyЖ нуы | 08:11 |
| ramishra | yeah, without that being fixed we would revert back | 08:11 |
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| skraynev_ | shardy: yes | 08:11 |
| skraynev_ | sorry - wrong keyboard layout :) | 08:11 |
| ramishra | shardy: do you think we can still target https://blueprints.launchpad.net/heat/+spec/environment-merging for n3? | 08:11 |
| shardy | Ok, well good to hear it's being worked on, I've got a functional test posted which can be rebased onto the fix when it's ready | 08:11 |
| shardy | ramishra: Yes, I'm planning to review it today | 08:12 |
| shardy | thanks for working on it | 08:12 |
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| ramishra | shardy: thanks! | 08:12 |
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| shardy | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/330414/ the spec for that still needs to land if anyone has a moment to look | 08:13 |
| prazumovsky | ramishra: also, could you add some examples to docs after landing env merge? | 08:13 |
| ramishra | huangtianhua: I see -1 from zaneb on one of the patches in the condital series. | 08:13 |
| shardy | I can help with docs too based on the usage we have planned for TripleO | 08:13 |
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| ramishra | huangtianhua: conditional series | 08:14 |
| ramishra | prazumovsky: yeah I plan to work on the docs after we agree on the approach. | 08:14 |
| prazumovsky | thanks! | 08:14 |
| huangtianhua | ramishra, yes, he suggested don't to refactor definition validating | 08:14 |
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| ramishra | shardy: I was thinking of updating the environment-merge spec after I get the feedback from you on the patches | 08:15 |
| shardy | ramishra: Ok, sure that's fine - we cam WIP it if that's the plan | 08:15 |
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| shardy | I just thought we'd want it landed before we start committing the implementation | 08:15 |
| ramishra | huangtianhua: so should we leave that refactoring and land the other patches? | 08:15 |
| shardy | we could just push any revisions to it as a follow-up patch, I don't really mind :) | 08:16 |
| ramishra | shardy: that sounds fine too. | 08:16 |
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| huangtianhua | you can see the comment of zane, I'm not sure whether we can put the common methods into engine/template.py, so what's your opinions:) | 08:16 |
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| skraynev_ | shardy: RE: spec - merged. sounds good IMO | 08:16 |
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| shardy | skraynev_: thanks! :) | 08:17 |
| skraynev_ | shardy: np ;) | 08:17 |
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| ramishra | huangtianhua: I would be ok if we can leave the refactoring for later | 08:18 |
| ramishra | shardy: opinion on https://review.openstack.org/#/c/345946/ | 08:18 |
| ramishra | skraynev: ^^ | 08:18 |
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| ramishra | should I move on to the next topic? | 08:20 |
| ramishra | #topic devstack plugin | 08:21 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "devstack plugin (Meeting topic: heat)" | 08:21 | |
| ramishra | I've added this one. | 08:21 |
| shardy | ramishra: FWIW I agree with zaneb, perhaps there's some other way the refactor can be done without modifying the base-class | 08:21 |
| shardy | e.g a mixin or a utilty module | 08:21 |
| ramishra | shardy: yeah | 08:21 |
| huangtianhua | shardy, ok, will to do it in a utilty module | 08:22 |
| shardy | huangtianhua: Thanks - sorry for the extra work | 08:22 |
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| huangtianhua | shardy, :) | 08:22 |
| ramishra | ok, on the devstack plugin thing, it's broken or does not work as of yet | 08:22 |
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| ramishra | I mean the in-tree stuff that we had added sometime back | 08:23 |
| ramishra | I've put a workaround for it https://review.openstack.org/#/c/352329/ | 08:23 |
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| ramishra | so basically plugin and the stuff in stack.sh both duplicate the heat stuff. | 08:24 |
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| ramishra | we can land this woraroudn and then move to the plugin | 08:25 |
| ramishra | project-config patch https://review.openstack.org/#/c/317817/ | 08:25 |
| ramishra | and once we clean up stack.sh https://review.openstack.org/#/c/317618/ we can revert this workaround. | 08:27 |
| ramishra | any thoughts? | 08:27 |
| ramishra | not sure if there is a better approach though. | 08:28 |
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| ramishra | we would like to fix this before the release | 08:29 |
| ramishra | shardy, skraynev wdyt? | 08:29 |
| prazumovsky | You suggest to merge workaround, which allows to work plugin correctly, wait until clean up not merged, after it revert workaround? Or I miss something? | 08:30 |
| ramishra | prazumovsky: we will move to use the plugin at the gate after the plugin works. | 08:30 |
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| ramishra | that's one step missing in your description | 08:30 |
| prazumovsky | Oh, sorry, now it's more clearer | 08:31 |
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| ramishra | ok, we can discuss(other ideas, concerns) on the patch. | 08:32 |
| prazumovsky | Your suggestion allows to start using plugin faster than wait until clean up on project withiut cores will be merged, so imo +1 | 08:33 |
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| prazumovsky | will review workaround | 08:33 |
| ramishra | prazumovsky: I don't see any other way to make it work as we can't cleanup devstack code without the plugin working. | 08:33 |
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| ramishra | #topic Open discussion | 08:34 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: heat)" | 08:34 | |
| prazumovsky | ramishra: got it | 08:34 |
| shardy | ramishra: +1 the workaround seems fine if it's a way to move forward | 08:35 |
| ramishra | shardy: thanks! | 08:35 |
| ramishra | anything else we want to discuss? | 08:36 |
| shardy | http://docs.openstack.org/developer/heat/template_guide/hot_spec.html#parameter-groups-section | 08:36 |
| shardy | I have one thing | 08:36 |
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| shardy | currently, a parameter can only be a member of zero or one parameter groups | 08:36 |
| shardy | IIRC this is something we did to align with CFN very early in heat development | 08:36 |
| shardy | I would like to change this for HOT, so that a parameter can be a member of multiple groups | 08:36 |
| shardy | any thoughts on that? | 08:36 |
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| skraynev_ | nope from my side ;) | 08:37 |
| prazumovsky | and another one (type slowly, from phone) Can someone explain.me, why rsrc defn validation allows to use Function type properties, if in fact it's not work and raises different errors. | 08:37 |
| ramishra | +1 | 08:37 |
| prazumovsky | +1 | 08:37 |
| huangtianhua | +1 | 08:37 |
| KanagarajM | +1 | 08:37 |
| shardy | Ok, sounds good, thanks, I'll see if I can get a patch posted today :) | 08:37 |
| prazumovsky | will follow | 08:38 |
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| shardy | prazumovsky: properties can be resolved at runtime, so that even if a validation step fails (e.g the Function resolves to None because it references something that doesn't yet exist), at runtime it will work | 08:38 |
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| shardy | It's one of those areas where static vs runtime validation gets a bit tricky | 08:39 |
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| ramishra | I thought we had plans to improve validation this cycle as discussed during the last design summit. | 08:40 |
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| shardy | jtomasek: ^^ FYI this may help with TripleO parameter categorization | 08:40 |
| prazumovsky | i.e. if properties equals to json type parameter - ift fails in case of code. Do I need to add some template validation that restricts using functions to sections? Or just leave it for later? | 08:40 |
| * jtomasek reads back | 08:41 | |
| jtomasek | shardy: +1 | 08:42 |
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| ramishra | ok, should we move back to #heat then? | 08:43 |
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| shardy | prazumovsky: if you can provide some more examples I'm happy to discuss futher, hard to discuss clearly without examples :) | 08:43 |
| shardy | ramishra: +1, thanks! | 08:43 |
| prazumovsky | shardy: ok, will provide | 08:44 |
| prazumovsky | let's move | 08:44 |
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| ramishra | #endmeeting | 08:44 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 08:44 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Aug 10 08:44:27 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 08:44 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/heat/2016/heat.2016-08-10-08.00.html | 08:44 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/heat/2016/heat.2016-08-10-08.00.txt | 08:44 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/heat/2016/heat.2016-08-10-08.00.log.html | 08:44 |
| ramishra | thanks all! | 08:44 |
| prazumovsky | bye! | 08:44 |
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| tonyb | #startmeeting requirements | 12:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Aug 10 12:00:44 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is tonyb. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 12:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 12:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: requirements)" | 12:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'requirements' | 12:00 |
| tonyb | #topic rollcall | 12:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "rollcall (Meeting topic: requirements)" | 12:00 | |
| coolsvap | o/ | 12:01 |
| prometheanfire | o/ | 12:01 |
| toabctl | hi | 12:01 |
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| tonyb | dirk: was around earlier .... | 12:02 |
| dirk | o/ | 12:02 |
| dhellmann | o/ | 12:02 |
| dirk | I'm here :) | 12:02 |
| tonyb | hey dhellmann. Nice to see you. | 12:03 |
| dhellmann | hi, tonyb, sorry for not making it to more of these | 12:03 |
| tonyb | dhellmann: it's all good, timing is hard with US/Europe and Australia | 12:03 |
| *** sankarshan_away is now known as sankarshan | 12:03 | |
| tonyb | #topic Any controversies in the Queue? | 12:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Any controversies in the Queue? (Meeting topic: requirements)" | 12:04 | |
| tonyb | so the queue is teeny right now so I don't think there's anything terrible in there | 12:04 |
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| prometheanfire | neutron things, do we wait like we did with horizon things? | 12:04 |
| prometheanfire | I tried asking in -neutron to no response | 12:05 |
| prometheanfire | also, http://logs.openstack.org/6c/6c3b4315443e2963ffbba9d1030c6e5dffe2514e/post/propose-requirements-updates/f4c6ca9/console.html#_2016-08-08_11_38_31_730575 | 12:05 |
| * dhellmann is about to process the oslo releases for the week | 12:05 | |
| prometheanfire | some projects aren't getting updates | 12:05 |
| tonyb | prometheanfire: I have names to add, armax, otherwiseguy and yamamoto | 12:06 |
| prometheanfire | I've worked with two of them, others are non-responsive in irc, going to have to submit bugs | 12:06 |
| tonyb | dhellmann: \o/ | 12:06 |
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| tonyb | dhellmann: The new testing makes them a litle more fun than they were :) | 12:06 |
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| dhellmann | tonyb : which (or how many) extra projects are being tested now? | 12:07 |
| sigmavirus | dhellmann: probably not enough :P | 12:08 |
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| tonyb | dhellmann: about 6 defcore + neutron and horizon | 12:08 |
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| tonyb | dhellmann: covers 54% of g-r | 12:08 |
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| dhellmann | tonyb : nice | 12:08 |
| tonyb | dhellmann: it isn't perfect but it's a start :) | 12:08 |
| dhellmann | sigmavirus : that's an excellent improvement, even if it's incomplete | 12:08 |
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| sigmavirus | dhellmann: I completely agree. Hence the ":P" | 12:09 |
| tonyb | dhellmann, sigmavirus: it's aleas going to be a balance between covereage and not killing the gate :( | 12:09 |
| dhellmann | tonyb : right | 12:10 |
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| tonyb | prometheanfire: Hmm tracking those failures will be fun :( | 12:10 |
| prometheanfire | tonyb: I've been working on that | 12:10 |
| sigmavirus | tonyb: I agree :) | 12:10 |
| prometheanfire | monasca and freezer are fixed | 12:10 |
| tonyb | prometheanfire: cool. | 12:10 |
| tonyb | prometheanfire: double cool | 12:10 |
| prometheanfire | 2 or 3 to go | 12:11 |
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| tonyb | So we'll have a rush on olso u-c bumps after dhellmann does his thing, we have a few post update failure to track and we need neutron to at least look at the ovs/ryu updates | 12:12 |
| prometheanfire | ya, he's doing it now :P | 12:12 |
| tonyb | sound like a fair summary of the review queue? | 12:12 |
| prometheanfire | ya | 12:13 |
| tonyb | :) | 12:13 |
| tonyb | moving on? | 12:13 |
| prometheanfire | y | 12:13 |
| prometheanfire | es | 12:13 |
| tonyb | #topic Additional Gating - Updates | 12:13 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Additional Gating - Updates (Meeting topic: requirements)" | 12:13 | |
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| tonyb | I left this in as there was a discussion we cut short last week | 12:14 |
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| tonyb | coolsvap: had an action out of that but he's wounded so probably isn't up to typing about that tonight | 12:14 |
| tonyb | coolsvap: does that sound reasonable? | 12:14 |
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| coolsvap | tonyb: yes | 12:15 |
| coolsvap | I will create an etherpad | 12:15 |
| prometheanfire | k | 12:15 |
| tonyb | coolsvap: okay. No rush | 12:15 |
| tonyb | skiiping over the setuptools discussion item as it was supposed to be removed from the agenda ... my bad | 12:16 |
| tonyb | #topic Approval rules for requirements | 12:16 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Approval rules for requirements (Meeting topic: requirements)" | 12:16 | |
| tonyb | So this was me ... I wanted to level set on what we "fast" approve and what we do the more typical 2*+2+W | 12:17 |
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| tonyb | I started a thread on os-dev which went a little wonky but | 12:17 |
| prometheanfire | that's normal | 12:17 |
| tonyb | it seem that there is an established pattern in the README, are we happy with that? | 12:18 |
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| prometheanfire | I think we should probably switch to 2*+2+W for gr updates at least | 12:18 |
| prometheanfire | UC updates should probably stay at 1 | 12:18 |
| prometheanfire | only because we don't have that many active cores | 12:19 |
| prometheanfire | but I'd be fine with 2 there as well | 12:19 |
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| tonyb | dirk? | 12:20 |
| dhellmann | it's currently 1 * +2+w for lower bounds updates of things we manage, right? | 12:20 |
| tonyb | dhellmann: Yes | 12:20 |
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| dhellmann | and what's the motivation for changing that? | 12:20 |
| prometheanfire | dhellmann: UC and GR both have that same rule | 12:21 |
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| tonyb | dhellmann: I was a little shocked that it was there and wanted to understand why it was there | 12:21 |
| coolsvap | I want 2*2+W for all requirement reviews unless explicit urgent requirement | 12:21 |
| tonyb | dhellmann: it could be that my world view is wrong | 12:21 |
| dhellmann | I think we said we wanted more careful consideration of adding new things, but managing what we already have on the list should be lightweight | 12:22 |
| tonyb | dhellmann: I given the way g-r updates propogate a mistake there is harder to back out | 12:22 |
| dhellmann | some of that may have come at a time when we had so few folks participating in reviews that it was necessary, and that may no longer be the case | 12:23 |
| dhellmann | so I'm not arguing against a change, just asking to understand the proposal | 12:23 |
| dhellmann | now that we have a really active team managing the list, asking for 2 reviews won't mean having a change blocked | 12:23 |
| tonyb | dhellmann: right now I don't think there is a *strong* proposal. most of us are new to this ;P | 12:23 |
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| dhellmann | but like I said on the ML, the main point of raising minimums is when a project wants to ensure a new feature of a library is there, and that happens fairly often for oslo libs (or it did at one point) so making that process smooth and quick was deemed important | 12:24 |
| dhellmann | again, though, this is all history and definitely open for revision | 12:25 |
| tonyb | dhellmann, coolsvap: I see our role as facilitatators and I don't wnat to create slowdowns or bottle nexk for projects but we also need to balance the risk. | 12:25 |
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| dhellmann | I completely agree with that | 12:26 |
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| coolsvap | tonyb: agreed | 12:26 |
| prometheanfire | so | 12:26 |
| tonyb | dhellmann: I suspected some of the fast approvals may have been due to reviewer bandwidth so you've at least indicated that that may have been the case. | 12:26 |
| prometheanfire | switch to 2*+2 for all or at least gr | 12:26 |
| coolsvap | my only point is we need to balance facilitation and risk | 12:26 |
| tonyb | coolsvap: yup. | 12:27 |
| coolsvap | we can always expedite | 12:27 |
| coolsvap | but we should not unless explicitly required | 12:27 |
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| tonyb | *or* we could leave it as it is and establish a process for "this scares me don | 12:28 |
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| tonyb | 't fast path it | 12:28 |
| coolsvap | if we have 2*2+W throughout | 12:28 |
| tonyb | which is probably just a -2 with a similar message | 12:28 |
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| tonyb | if it's expected then it's less of a schock | 12:28 |
| prometheanfire | ya, for those it's mostly about ryu/ovs type stuff right now | 12:28 |
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| coolsvap | i am not big fan of -2s | 12:29 |
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| tonyb | prometheanfire: and a little we know $fu is broken but not enough to black list it so don't take the bot u-c update | 12:29 |
| coolsvap | -1 from any core should be sufficient to acknowledge stop approve | 12:29 |
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| prometheanfire | ya | 12:30 |
| prometheanfire | coolsvap: ya, -2 in this case shouldn't ne needed | 12:30 |
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| tonyb | I'm on the fence there. -2's used appropriately are a tool | 12:31 |
| tonyb | they have a stigma but that's not totally deserved | 12:31 |
| tonyb | my $0.02 | 12:31 |
| * sigmavirus agrees with tonyb | 12:31 | |
| prometheanfire | true, but -2 needs to wait for removal | 12:32 |
| tonyb | if a core's -1 == -2 then why have a -1? | 12:32 |
| prometheanfire | that's the only reason why | 12:32 |
| dhellmann | I think as long as you clearly explain the policy/process to folks outside the team, either is fine. | 12:32 |
| tonyb | prometheanfire: but that's a good thing IMO | 12:32 |
| prometheanfire | so we are blocked on the -2 until the person who put it is removed | 12:32 |
| sigmavirus | right, I feel like aversion to a -2 is because some cores will want to approve something against another core's opinion | 12:32 |
| sigmavirus | That favors "speed" over consensus | 12:32 |
| prometheanfire | it is a good thing, when there's a strong personal opinion or question needing answered | 12:33 |
| prometheanfire | but since this is for 'team actions' I don't think it's good | 12:33 |
| tonyb | dhellmann: I agree | 12:33 |
| tonyb | prometheanfire: we have to trust cores wont -2 things without a good reason. | 12:34 |
| prometheanfire | yes | 12:34 |
| prometheanfire | I thought you were talking about doing it to all updates to certian packages | 12:34 |
| prometheanfire | emphasis on the _all_ | 12:34 |
| tonyb | prometheanfire: no Just the ones that nees extreem care (like I did with the oslo.context stuff) | 12:35 |
| prometheanfire | ya | 12:36 |
| prometheanfire | that's good use :D | 12:36 |
| prometheanfire | so I think we agree then (not sure about coolsvap's opinion) | 12:36 |
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| coolsvap | I am fine with -2 jjust I am not big fan of it | 12:37 |
| coolsvap | but do we agree on 2*+2+W ? | 12:37 |
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| prometheanfire | +1 | 12:38 |
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| coolsvap | we similarly need to create policy for new packages | 12:38 |
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| prometheanfire | policy for new packages is 2*+2+W | 12:38 |
| prometheanfire | iirc | 12:38 |
| dhellmann | yes, that should be the policy already | 12:38 |
| coolsvap | I think it needs to extended | 12:38 |
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| coolsvap | we need formal packagers review | 12:39 |
| sigmavirus | so what I'm hearing is that coolsvap is going to put together a doc change for these policies and let voting happen there and announce it to the mailing list so people are aware of the policy changes we're talking about, right? | 12:39 |
| tonyb | prometheanfire: I think coolsvap is suggesting that we wait for a positve review from a deb, rpm and gentoo packager for new things | 12:39 |
| prometheanfire | oh | 12:39 |
| prometheanfire | that | 12:39 |
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| sigmavirus | tonyb: prometheanfire coolsvap we could add an extra label that are given to packagers for the requirements project so that you can add them to a group and have them vote as packagers on a review | 12:40 |
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| sigmavirus | that may provoke them to participate more | 12:40 |
| prometheanfire | that's true, about participation | 12:40 |
| prometheanfire | I'm not sure packagers actually need to review (though it is nice), anyone can do a package search | 12:40 |
| prometheanfire | each distro has a link to their 'search' | 12:40 |
| prometheanfire | in the readme | 12:41 |
| sigmavirus | is that really the only thing packagers contribute though? | 12:41 |
| dhellmann | prometheanfire : could we automate that search? | 12:41 |
| prometheanfire | and for gentoo, as long as UC is co-installable (which is debatable at times) the we are good | 12:41 |
| tonyb | prometheanfire: right but I wouldn't feel comfortable saying $this_thing *can* be packaged for $disro | 12:41 |
| sigmavirus | If it's that easy, why not automate it and make it part of CI | 12:41 |
| sigmavirus | damnit dhellmann beat me | 12:41 |
| prometheanfire | dhellmann: don't think so, mainly because names change | 12:41 |
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| tonyb | prometheanfire: and that's where I think packagers add value in the review | 12:42 |
| dhellmann | could we do a best-effort automated search with links in the output when something can't be found? | 12:42 |
| prometheanfire | tonyb: ya, if it's missing having them say something is a good thing | 12:42 |
| prometheanfire | double+good | 12:42 |
| coolsvap | and some packages are not part of the distro but can be packaged or cannot be packaged or duplicates | 12:42 |
| dhellmann | sort of like how we have the list-changes job for releases, where it just dumps a bunch of info that makes it easier to look at what's in a release without doing it by hand yourself | 12:42 |
| tonyb | dhellmann: that's an interesting idea | 12:43 |
| prometheanfire | one thing we need to keep in mind while asking them is their response time | 12:43 |
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| dhellmann | I also don't think we want a policy of blocking new dependencies until they're packaged | 12:43 |
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| prometheanfire | exactly | 12:43 |
| sigmavirus | dhellmann: right, so if we were to add a new vote label and give that to packagers, we could say "2 packagers need to approve this" before we approve the change | 12:43 |
| coolsvap | no not blocking them until packaged | 12:44 |
| prometheanfire | ya, a majority of packagers would be good | 12:44 |
| dhellmann | we want to get input about something that's impossible to package, but we don't want to stall our community's work until distros say it's ok | 12:44 |
| coolsvap | but having more views | 12:44 |
| sigmavirus | Instead of saying "All packagers need to approve it" which I wasn't suggesting, but it seems people read "all" into a lot of things in this emeting | 12:44 |
| sigmavirus | coolsvap: no one is suggesting blocking until packaged though | 12:44 |
| sigmavirus | we just want some number of packagers to say "this looks good to us" | 12:44 |
| prometheanfire | I can say from a gentoo perspective there's very little we will say no to... | 12:44 |
| sigmavirus | this also means packagers don't need to be cores but they are their own team | 12:44 |
| dhellmann | sigmavirus : ok, I misunderstood. Do we have enough active packaging folks involved to even say we'll wait for 2? I haven't been keeping up... | 12:45 |
| tonyb | okay I think we need to wind this up we only have 15mins left | 12:45 |
| sigmavirus | dhellmann: prometheanfire is one :P | 12:45 |
| tonyb | dhellmann: Yeah we do | 12:45 |
| sigmavirus | I think haikel was rather involved but I haven't been paying attention | 12:45 |
| dhellmann | cool, that's good to hear | 12:45 |
| * sigmavirus probably misspelt their name :( | 12:45 | |
| prometheanfire | my vote is almost always yes though, not sure how useful it is (as a packager) | 12:45 |
| sigmavirus | prometheanfire: it's a good counterbalance to the packagers whose vote is almost always no though =P | 12:46 |
| prometheanfire | we had/have deb/fedora/suse/gentoo | 12:46 |
| dhellmann | rather than making those folks separate, we could also explore getting them up to speed enough to be core | 12:46 |
| prometheanfire | sigmavirus: lol | 12:46 |
| tonyb | dhellmann: most of then are core | 12:46 |
| dhellmann | ok, then I'm not sure I see the point of a separate vote label | 12:46 |
| tonyb | dhellmann: so job done :) | 12:46 |
| prometheanfire | we need an action item to enumerate who's our 'contact' to see if we can get a group for voting | 12:46 |
| sigmavirus | dhellmann: I wasn't aware that most already were core | 12:47 |
| tonyb | ok so in summary | 12:47 |
| sigmavirus | so that's why I suggested the separate vote label :D | 12:47 |
| dhellmann | sigmavirus : ok, cool | 12:47 |
| prometheanfire | I'm not sure most are core, but enumerating them would be good | 12:47 |
| sigmavirus | I was under the impression that few were core | 12:47 |
| dhellmann | prometheanfire : +1 to writing things down | 12:47 |
| sigmavirus | ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ | 12:47 |
| prometheanfire | a few were | 12:47 |
| sigmavirus | right, so we need an action for coolsvap to write down the policy changes around votes | 12:47 |
| tonyb | we need to do more thinking on the approval rules thing as we're only mostly on the same page | 12:47 |
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| sigmavirus | (because coolsvap seems to be the driver of that change) | 12:48 |
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| tonyb | sigmavirus: I'm not entirely certain that's a fair read. | 12:48 |
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| tonyb | sigmavirus: I opened this can of worms, but I don't have a proposal yet | 12:49 |
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| tonyb | #action Think more on approval rules befoer next meeting | 12:49 |
| coolsvap | +1 | 12:49 |
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| tonyb | #topic Tasks from Etherpad | 12:50 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Tasks from Etherpad (Meeting topic: requirements)" | 12:50 | |
| prometheanfire | and one for packager votes/figuring out our packager pool? | 12:50 |
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| tonyb | Interim PTL Election - Results available after 13:00 utc August 11, 2016. | 12:50 |
| prometheanfire | those are two separate rule changes | 12:50 |
| tonyb | #link http://civs.cs.cornell.edu/cgi-bin/results.pl?id=E_02dbd8750c568757 | 12:50 |
| tonyb | prometheanfire: sure. 2 seperate things but 1 related | 12:50 |
| prometheanfire | ya | 12:51 |
| tonyb | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/requirements-tasks | 12:51 |
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| prometheanfire | I added a task | 12:51 |
| prometheanfire | figure out _ vs - in the canonical names for django_openstack_auth, glance-store and ironic-lib (etc) | 12:51 |
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| tonyb | dhellmann: Do you consider the u-c updates for packages in non-canonical form resolved? | 12:51 |
| prometheanfire | that was a request from dhellmann | 12:51 |
| tonyb | dhellmann: now that you updated release.sh | 12:52 |
| dhellmann | tonyb : it would be nice if we could standardize, but it turns out doing that introduces a whole host of other issues | 12:52 |
| dhellmann | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/352929/ | 12:52 |
| dhellmann | so yeah, for now at least I think ^^ takes care of it | 12:52 |
| tonyb | dhellmann: ok | 12:53 |
| prometheanfire | dhellmann: if you could add info to line 53 (item 18) that'd be nice :D https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/requirements-tasks | 12:53 |
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| tonyb | prometheanfire: I was just going to move it to "done" | 12:54 |
| prometheanfire | that's fine too, if dhellmann is happy | 12:55 |
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| tonyb | dhellmann: Thanks. | 12:55 |
| tonyb | Anything else in there we need to touch on ? | 12:56 |
| prometheanfire | next/done? | 12:56 |
| tonyb | I think we're close to closign a few | 12:56 |
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| tonyb | #topic Open Discussion | 12:56 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: requirements)" | 12:56 | |
| * dhellmann has to drop off | 12:57 | |
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| dhellmann | prometheanfire : info added | 12:57 |
| prometheanfire | thanks | 12:57 |
| tonyb | number80 has optional-requirements stuff but has a cold ... | 12:57 |
| tonyb | anythin else? | 12:57 |
| tonyb | dhellmann: Thanks! | 12:57 |
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| tonyb | going once ..... | 12:58 |
| tonyb | going twice ..... | 12:59 |
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| tonyb | Thanks everyone | 12:59 |
| tonyb | #endmeeting | 12:59 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 12:59 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Aug 10 12:59:31 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 12:59 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/requirements/2016/requirements.2016-08-10-12.00.html | 12:59 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/requirements/2016/requirements.2016-08-10-12.00.txt | 12:59 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/requirements/2016/requirements.2016-08-10-12.00.log.html | 12:59 |
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| *** shaohe_feng has joined #openstack-meeting | 13:00 | |
| joehuang | hello | 13:00 |
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| yinxiulin | hello | 13:00 |
| huangdongfeng | hi | 13:00 |
| joehuang | #startmeeting tricircle | 13:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Aug 10 13:01:12 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is joehuang. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 13:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 13:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: tricircle)" | 13:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'tricircle' | 13:01 |
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| zhiyuan | hello | 13:01 |
| joehuang | #topic rollcall | 13:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "rollcall (Meeting topic: tricircle)" | 13:01 | |
| joehuang | #info joehuang | 13:01 |
| zhiyuan | #info zhiyuan | 13:01 |
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| huangdongfeng | #info dongfeng | 13:01 |
| Yipei_ | #info Yipei | 13:01 |
| yinxiulin | #info xiulin | 13:01 |
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| joehuang | #topic feature review | 13:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "feature review (Meeting topic: tricircle)" | 13:02 | |
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| joehuang | hello, let's talk about our feature parity and feature development | 13:03 |
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| joehuang | so please have a short introduction for your features | 13:03 |
| joehuang | and recent progress | 13:03 |
| zhiyuan | patch for l3 networking in shared vlan network has been submitted. | 13:04 |
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| yinxiulin | all the nova microversion unit testcase has passed | 13:05 |
| joehuang | yes, have commented on this patch | 13:05 |
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| joehuang | to Xiulin, great! | 13:05 |
| zhiyuan | implementing deletion of floating ip and router is the next step | 13:05 |
| yinxiulin | thanks :) | 13:05 |
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| joehuang | the tempest test for Nova server start/stop is blocked by L3 networking features | 13:06 |
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| joehuang | #info nova api-gw microversion unit test passed | 13:06 |
| zhiyuan | yeah, so we still need to implement floating ip and router clearing | 13:07 |
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| joehuang | #info fip/router cleaning to pass tempest test in Nova server actions | 13:07 |
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| joehuang | to Yipei, how about dynamic pod binding feature | 13:09 |
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| Yipei_ | about dynamic pod binding, the framework is almost done, but unit test is not finished. i plan to submit a WIP patch before this weekend, so that i can revise code timely | 13:09 |
| joehuang | good | 13:09 |
| zhiyuan | cool | 13:09 |
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| joehuang | you can refer to other patches for how to do the unit test | 13:10 |
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| huangdongfeng | I am work with the pod and poding binding document, now i am at home, it's | 13:10 |
| huangdongfeng | convenient with the network connection at home now, i will do it next monday. | 13:10 |
| huangdongfeng | but i am studying the source code first. | 13:10 |
| Yipei_ | ok, got it | 13:10 |
| joehuang | to Dongfeng, that's great! | 13:11 |
| joehuang | #info pod and pod binding documentation, WIP | 13:11 |
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| Yipei_ | since the framework is simple and naive, i think there is much work to do, so i will speed up | 13:11 |
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| joehuang | #info dynamic pod binding, WIP. Draft code this weekend | 13:12 |
| Yipei_ | ok, got it | 13:12 |
| joehuang | undersatnd | 13:12 |
| joehuang | look forward to your code | 13:12 |
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| joehuang | the resource_affinit_tag patch not updated yet | 13:13 |
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| Yipei_ | ok, i will update it after the draft patch is submitted | 13:15 |
| joehuang | good | 13:15 |
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| joehuang | for danymic pod binding, have you tested locally? | 13:16 |
| joehuang | or just write not without unit test and function test | 13:16 |
| Yipei_ | no test | 13:16 |
| joehuang | sorry, just write code without any test | 13:17 |
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| Yipei_ | i will test it before it is submitted, at least local test | 13:17 |
| joehuang | o, you need to run code ASAP | 13:17 |
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| joehuang | +1 | 13:18 |
| joehuang | are xiongqiu, ronghui online? | 13:18 |
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| joehuang | #topic open discussion | 13:19 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: tricircle)" | 13:19 | |
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| joehuang | the big-tent application is still in defense phase | 13:20 |
| joehuang | other topics to discuss? | 13:21 |
| zhiyuan | one for the N-S bridge network | 13:21 |
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| joehuang | please | 13:21 |
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| zhiyuan | since external network doesn't support vxlan type, we cannot create a vxlan network as the N-S bridge network | 13:22 |
| joehuang | a patch is working to support VxLAN network | 13:22 |
| zhiyuan | but E-W bridge network is fine, I have tested that | 13:23 |
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| zhiyuan | so our bridge network solution will depend on this patch? | 13:23 |
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| joehuang | I remember network should be able to created | 13:24 |
| joehuang | could you open the patch for external network to support vxlan network? | 13:24 |
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| zhiyuan | do you have a link? | 13:25 |
| joehuang | the major work for that patch is to support remote vtep | 13:25 |
| joehuang | list | 13:25 |
| joehuang | one second | 13:26 |
| zhiyuan | oh i find it | 13:26 |
| zhiyuan | https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/1525059 | 13:26 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1525059 in neutron "[RFE] Add support for external vxlan encapsulation to neutron router" [Wishlist,In progress] - Assigned to Steve Ruan (ruansx) | 13:26 |
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| zhiyuan | code for the plugin and ovs agent are submitted | 13:29 |
| zhiyuan | but not merged yet | 13:29 |
| ronghui | hello | 13:29 |
| ronghui | sorry for late | 13:29 |
| joehuang | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/282180/ | 13:29 |
| joehuang | hello ronghui | 13:29 |
| joehuang | long time no see | 13:29 |
| ronghui | hello | 13:30 |
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| joehuang | yes, in the spec, he mentioned that how to make external network with vxlan network | 13:30 |
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| joehuang | to ronghui, how about the features implementation | 13:31 |
| ronghui | in this week we can submit the new patch for the features of cinder | 13:32 |
| zhiyuan | ok, i will investigate the code offline | 13:32 |
| joehuang | so cool, look forward to your patches | 13:33 |
| joehuang | to zhiyuan, thanks. | 13:33 |
| ronghui | and we will submit the new patch of different features of cinder in Aug | 13:33 |
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| ronghui | some new patch | 13:33 |
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| joehuang | good, seems the plan goes very well | 13:34 |
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| joehuang | other topics? | 13:34 |
| ronghui | the guys in our team is familiar with the tricircle | 13:34 |
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| zhiyuan | no for me | 13:34 |
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| Yipei_ | no for me | 13:35 |
| huangdongfeng | no for me | 13:35 |
| joehuang | great to know a team work on the tricircle | 13:35 |
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| ronghui | i have some problem | 13:35 |
| yinxiulin | no for me | 13:35 |
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| ronghui | joe can we apply for our team use Hunan university | 13:36 |
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| joehuang | please invite to join the tricircle weekly meeting | 13:36 |
| joehuang | of course, no problem, it's open source | 13:36 |
| ronghui | ok | 13:36 |
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| joehuang | please join the irc/mail-list/weekly meeting as usual | 13:37 |
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| ronghui | and i will leave u some mail for review the code | 13:37 |
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| joehuang | we are online in #openstack-tricircle daily | 13:37 |
| ronghui | some mail of guys in our team | 13:37 |
| joehuang | you can send that in mail-list | 13:38 |
| ronghui | ok | 13:38 |
| joehuang | or add them directly in the patch reviewer list | 13:38 |
| ronghui | and i will finish the bog that fix the problem of tricircle on virtualbox in this week | 13:38 |
| joehuang | cool | 13:39 |
| joehuang | so please all of us keep online in the #openstack-tricircle | 13:39 |
| zhiyuan | ok | 13:40 |
| ronghui | ok | 13:40 |
| joehuang | we can have discussion in the channel as needed any time | 13:40 |
| yinxiulin | OK | 13:40 |
| joehuang | and if you have any question, also can consult any one of us | 13:40 |
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| ronghui | ok | 13:40 |
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| joehuang | ok thank you attend the meeting | 13:40 |
| joehuang | #endmeeting | 13:40 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 13:40 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Aug 10 13:40:54 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 13:40 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tricircle/2016/tricircle.2016-08-10-13.01.html | 13:40 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tricircle/2016/tricircle.2016-08-10-13.01.txt | 13:40 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tricircle/2016/tricircle.2016-08-10-13.01.log.html | 13:40 |
| joehuang | bye | 13:40 |
| zhiyuan | bye | 13:41 |
| Yipei_ | bye | 13:41 |
| ronghui | byt | 13:41 |
| admir_ | bye | 13:41 |
| huangdongfeng | bye | 13:41 |
| yinxiulin | bye | 13:41 |
| ronghui | bye | 13:41 |
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| leyuquan | bye | 13:41 |
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| hejiawei | bye | 13:42 |
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| krotscheck | #startmeeting javascript | 14:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Aug 10 14:00:04 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is krotscheck. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 14:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 14:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: javascript)" | 14:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'javascript' | 14:00 |
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| krotscheck | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/javascript-meeting-2016-08-10 | 14:00 |
| krotscheck | Agenda! | 14:00 |
| msmol | hello all | 14:00 |
| betherly | o/ hallo! | 14:00 |
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| krotscheck | hi! | 14:00 |
| * krotscheck is typing one handed | 14:00 | |
| vkramskikh | hi | 14:00 |
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| krotscheck | #chair vkramskikh | 14:00 |
| openstack | Current chairs: krotscheck vkramskikh | 14:00 |
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| krotscheck | #topic Action Followup | 14:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Action Followup (Meeting topic: javascript)" | 14:01 | |
| krotscheck | yujunz, you there? | 14:01 |
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| msmol | cardeois is also MIA | 14:02 |
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| krotscheck | Got it | 14:02 |
| msmol | nevermind, he literally just walked in the door | 14:02 |
| krotscheck | I see yujunz in the etehrpad. | 14:02 |
| krotscheck | Well, we'll see if he joins later. | 14:02 |
| krotscheck | #topic eslint-config-openstack | 14:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "eslint-config-openstack (Meeting topic: javascript)" | 14:03 | |
| krotscheck | We have a new version! It's... version 4.0.1, caused by some fiddling with infra and not doing things in the right order. | 14:03 |
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| krotscheck | Thanks betherly and vkramskikh for getting those patches together | 14:03 |
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| Zara | woop! :D | 14:03 |
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| betherly | yay! | 14:04 |
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| betherly | thanks krotscheck for all your help getting that out | 14:04 |
| krotscheck | This version contain eslint2015 rules, so go nuts everyone | 14:04 |
| vkramskikh | btw, why is the new version 4.0.0, not 3.0.0? | 14:04 |
| krotscheck | Anyone want to take on the job of updating the version in our various projects? | 14:04 |
| betherly | release docs coming soon. releasing a patch momentarily to create docs for eslint-config-openstack | 14:04 |
| krotscheck | vkramskikh: THat's a long and terrible tale involving infra, race conditions, and entirely too few donuts. | 14:04 |
| krotscheck | (we did things out of order, wedging the gate, and infra didn't want to clar the tags for us) | 14:05 |
| krotscheck | Alright. | 14:05 |
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| krotscheck | #action Unassigned Update eslint rules to 4.0.1. | 14:05 |
| krotscheck | #topic Fetch-Mock working | 14:06 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Fetch-Mock working (Meeting topic: javascript)" | 14:06 | |
| krotscheck | It's working! | 14:06 |
| msmol | :D | 14:06 |
| vkramskikh | yay | 14:06 |
| msmol | thanks krotscheck | 14:06 |
| cardeois | yay ! (and hi !) | 14:06 |
| krotscheck | #topic SDK Midcycle & Hack Session | 14:06 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "SDK Midcycle & Hack Session (Meeting topic: javascript)" | 14:06 | |
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| krotscheck | Everything here pending the open call for cross-project design sessions. | 14:06 |
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| krotscheck | Out of curiosity, who here is going to be at the summit? | 14:06 |
| * krotscheck will be there entirely dependent on his talk acceptance. | 14:07 | |
| cardeois | msmol and me will be there | 14:07 |
| vkramskikh | I'm going to attend, but it's not 100% | 14:07 |
| * msmol raises hand | 14:07 | |
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| krotscheck | \o/ | 14:07 |
| krotscheck | Woo! | 14:07 |
| krotscheck | I'm pretty certain betherly will be there. | 14:07 |
| krotscheck | Zara? | 14:07 |
| cardeois | and are you coming krotscheck ? | 14:08 |
| cardeois | oh sorry didn't see it | 14:08 |
| betherly | i should be there dependant on talk acceptance and travel approval etc :) | 14:08 |
| * SotK hopes to be there | 14:08 | |
| Zara | I should be, still need to get things confirmed but should have conference budget for it | 14:08 |
| krotscheck | I do not know. There are things in motion I can't really talk about yet that will both decrease my chances of attendance but increase my budget should a talk be approved. | 14:08 |
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| krotscheck | Moving on | 14:08 |
| krotscheck | #topic DSVM & Doc patches | 14:09 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "DSVM & Doc patches (Meeting topic: javascript)" | 14:09 | |
| krotscheck | Those are separated, but seem to be stalled out right now. | 14:09 |
| krotscheck | There was a brief wedge from infra because they _REALLY_ wanted us to move to bindep. | 14:09 |
| krotscheck | Overall, that's actually a good thing. | 14:09 |
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| cardeois | what's bindep? | 14:09 |
| krotscheck | I'm glad you asked! | 14:09 |
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| krotscheck | It's a tool that checks for a bindep.txt file in the root of a project and installs all the packages it finds there. | 14:10 |
| krotscheck | https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:open+branch:master+topic:bindep | 14:10 |
| krotscheck | Since we're dependent on python-sphinx (the package), and they're moving to bindep, infra decided to make us shave this yak before landing these jobs. | 14:10 |
| krotscheck | Long story short: We're in charge of apt-get install now. | 14:11 |
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| krotscheck | In the meantime, our devstack gate scripts have already landed, so once the various patches land we'll be good to go (and debug failures) | 14:12 |
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| krotscheck | I'll keep poking infra this week | 14:12 |
| cardeois | ok interesting. But can we install packages depending on tags or something? meaning we want some deps for devstack tests, but not everything for unit tests | 14:12 |
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| krotscheck | #action poke infra about build patches | 14:12 |
| krotscheck | cardeois: I don't think so | 14:12 |
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| cardeois | Ok, so I suppose it's not such a big deal as it's for jenkins jobs only. | 14:13 |
| krotscheck | Right | 14:13 |
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| krotscheck | And we're installing from the infra mirrors, so it's assumably faster | 14:13 |
| cardeois | And do we have node6 + node4 here? | 14:13 |
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| krotscheck | No, those have to be installed manually. | 14:13 |
| krotscheck | "Manually" | 14:13 |
| krotscheck | Those macros will not be removed from infra | 14:13 |
| cardeois | ok I understand | 14:14 |
| krotscheck | But things like install-firefox, install-chrome, etc will | 14:14 |
| krotscheck | Any other questions? | 14:14 |
| cardeois | Yes it will be faster because every macro right now run "apt-get update" first | 14:14 |
| krotscheck | Exactly | 14:14 |
| cardeois | so it's really slow to make like 10 apt-get update for nothing | 14:14 |
| cardeois | anyway, no more question thanks ! | 14:15 |
| krotscheck | #topic Action https://review.openstack.org/#/c/345529/ | 14:15 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Action https://review.openstack.org/#/c/345529/ (Meeting topic: javascript)" | 14:15 | |
| krotscheck | It landed! | 14:15 |
| cardeois | \o/ | 14:15 |
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| krotscheck | #topic General News | 14:16 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "General News (Meeting topic: javascript)" | 14:16 | |
| krotscheck | So, Neutron's now default in Devstack | 14:16 |
| krotscheck | That impacts our roadmap going forward, and pretty much means that we can ignore nova-network ;) | 14:16 |
| krotscheck | Anyone know of any other news that impact us? | 14:16 |
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| krotscheck | I'l... take that as a no. | 14:17 |
| krotscheck | #topic JavaScript SDK design discussion | 14:17 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "JavaScript SDK design discussion (Meeting topic: javascript)" | 14:17 | |
| krotscheck | Ok, two things I want to hit here, first the draft documentation that I put together, secondly "what utility libraries are ok to use" | 14:18 |
| krotscheck | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/351875/ | 14:18 |
| krotscheck | What do people think? | 14:18 |
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| msmol | I'll start writing some "advanced" docs for keystone | 14:19 |
| Zara | that draft seems sensible, but I've only glanced at it so far | 14:19 |
| krotscheck | \o/ | 14:20 |
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| krotscheck | I'm actually pondering getting a release of the SDK pushed with the minimal Keystone work. | 14:21 |
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| krotscheck | Reason is that we can now query the service catalog, which would allow us to pull it into generator-openstack. | 14:22 |
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| krotscheck | msmol: Tha'd be awesome. | 14:22 |
| krotscheck | No comments? | 14:23 |
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| krotscheck | Ok, what about lodash/underscore? | 14:23 |
| vkramskikh | as for utility libraries, there was a patchset with keystone client which used "underscore" library, so I put the topic on the agenda. I think we shouldn't use any utility libraries since we're going to be a library which shouldn't bee to large, but if we have to, let's go with lodash. there is a babel plugin which does lodash-specific treeshaking, so it won't affect the size of the library dramatically | 14:23 |
| vkramskikh | #link https://github.com/lodash/babel-plugin-lodash | 14:24 |
| krotscheck | Intreesting. | 14:24 |
| krotscheck | I'm definitely a fan of minimal dependencies overall | 14:24 |
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| krotscheck | Though I can appreciate the velocity gained from somehting like these libraries. | 14:24 |
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| krotscheck | If I remember correctly, lodash can be included on a per-method basis, yes? | 14:24 |
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| vkramskikh | I believe we could go without any utility library - it's highly unlikely we will do some complex transformations with API output which would require lodash | 14:25 |
| msmol | I don't mind, lodash/underscore are essentially the same project at this point, so either one is fine by me. +1 for lodash since that babel plugin looks awesome | 14:25 |
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| vkramskikh | krotscheck: yes, or we could use that plugin | 14:25 |
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| msmol | the nice thing about es6 i suppose is that *most* of the things underscore/lodash used to be used for has native functions now | 14:25 |
| krotscheck | So, we can adopt it conservatively? | 14:26 |
| cardeois | Yeah I agree, let's try to use es6 features first, and if at some point the code gets too complicated, let's integrate lodash | 14:27 |
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| vkramskikh | +1 | 14:27 |
| krotscheck | As long as we have an agreed path forward, I'm content letting each contributor make a decision on what tools to use. | 14:27 |
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| krotscheck | So, lodash-but-try-to-use-es6-first? | 14:27 |
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| cardeois | yes | 14:27 |
| vkramskikh | lgtm | 14:27 |
| msmol | +1 | 14:28 |
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| krotscheck | #agreed Prefer ES6 features, integrate lodash via babel-plugin-lodash when necessary. | 14:28 |
| krotscheck | Coolio. | 14:28 |
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| krotscheck | While we're talking design... | 14:28 |
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| krotscheck | vkramskikh: I was hoping to get a feature list from you, to get an understanding of what features need to be built out for Fuel to start adopting js-openstack-lib | 14:29 |
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| vkramskikh | krotscheck: Fuel just needs keystone, so the first release providing only keystone client totally makes sense for me | 14:29 |
| krotscheck | vkramskikh: Nice. | 14:30 |
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| krotscheck | msmol: ALright, I'm going to start coding hard against keystone to get us to that point | 14:30 |
| krotscheck | msmol: I'll ping you via email to make sure we don't step on each other's toes. | 14:31 |
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| krotscheck | Any other questions on general design things? | 14:31 |
| msmol | sounds good to me | 14:31 |
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| krotscheck | Alright, moving on. | 14:31 |
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| tommylikehu | ok | 14:32 |
| krotscheck | #topic Project Status: js-openstack-lib | 14:32 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Project Status: js-openstack-lib (Meeting topic: javascript)" | 14:32 | |
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| krotscheck | I have an update from larainema... | 14:32 |
| krotscheck | "<larainema>for glance client, I am still working on it, a little slow process this week and also looking at the keystone client to integrate with it" | 14:32 |
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| krotscheck | msmol managed to land his basic keystone client ! | 14:33 |
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| krotscheck | \o/ | 14:33 |
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| * krotscheck already updated a patch against it ;) | 14:33 | |
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| krotscheck | And we don't yet have volunteers for nova, cinder, neutron, and (other) | 14:33 |
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| krotscheck | I have to say I really appreciate the work that cardeois and msmol have been doing for this project :) | 14:34 |
| krotscheck | The same goes for betherly on eslint-config-openstack | 14:34 |
| krotscheck | So, thanks everyone! | 14:34 |
| krotscheck | Does anyone else have any actual dev questions on this? | 14:34 |
| krotscheck | Else we'll move on | 14:34 |
| krotscheck | Oookoay. | 14:35 |
| krotscheck | #topic Project Status: generator-openstack | 14:35 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Project Status: generator-openstack (Meeting topic: javascript)" | 14:35 | |
| krotscheck | <yujunz>busy with some urgent task, sorry to miss the meeting again | 14:36 |
| krotscheck | [07:14:05] <yujunz>jsdoc and sphinx is still in progress | 14:36 |
| krotscheck | That's all we got there. | 14:36 |
| krotscheck | #topic Open Discussion | 14:36 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: javascript)" | 14:36 | |
| krotscheck | Anything? I've got nothing that hasn't already been mentioned. | 14:36 |
| msmol | I've got some questions on where we need to go for keystone client beyond what we've already got, but I guess krotscheck we can talk about specifics outside this meeting | 14:36 |
| krotscheck | msmol: Well, I think the big thing is "How does a different API client get the token and decorate its requests. | 14:37 |
| krotscheck | Also, there's this: http://developer.openstack.org/api-ref/identity/v3/index.html | 14:37 |
| krotscheck | providing methods that will eventually allow domain acccess, project creation, groups, regions... you get the idea. | 14:38 |
| krotscheck | But the big one is the first one. | 14:38 |
| msmol | cool. like you said above though let's communicate via email to avoid stepping on each others toes | 14:39 |
| krotscheck | Yep. | 14:39 |
| cardeois | Yeah, oh and while keystone client is not that big right now, it would be nice to have a structure to handle multiple keystone version (and have something similar for Nova etc) | 14:39 |
| krotscheck | Oh yeah, microversioning. | 14:39 |
| krotscheck | Whooooey | 14:40 |
| cardeois | We could develop only v3, but it'll be easy to add v2 or vx in the future | 14:40 |
| krotscheck | That's going to be a fiddly one. | 14:40 |
| krotscheck | Yeah, how do we handle microversion negotiation? | 14:40 |
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| krotscheck | But you're right, for now v3 is probably the first step. | 14:41 |
| krotscheck | And then maybe have the OpenStack class dynamically set itself up based on what it discovers. | 14:41 |
| cardeois | no idea, I didn't think about it. But I was just thinking it would be important to have that. For example our internal openstack was keystone v2 until last month... | 14:41 |
| krotscheck | I agree. | 14:41 |
| krotscheck | That also talks about how we handled version deprecation and EOL of old Api versions | 14:42 |
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| cardeois | yeah exactly, I just want Keystone class to be prepared to handle that | 14:42 |
| cardeois | right | 14:42 |
| krotscheck | So, msmol and I have our work cut out for us :) | 14:42 |
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| msmol | :D | 14:43 |
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| krotscheck | #action Unassigned Keystone version selection | 14:43 |
| krotscheck | #action Unassigned brainstorm microversion | 14:43 |
| krotscheck | Anything else? Otherwise we'll end early | 14:44 |
| msmol | all good on my end | 14:44 |
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| krotscheck | Alrightey | 14:44 |
| krotscheck | Thanks everyone! | 14:45 |
| krotscheck | #endmeeting | 14:45 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 14:45 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Aug 10 14:45:03 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 14:45 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/javascript/2016/javascript.2016-08-10-14.00.html | 14:45 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/javascript/2016/javascript.2016-08-10-14.00.txt | 14:45 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/javascript/2016/javascript.2016-08-10-14.00.log.html | 14:45 |
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| Zara | anybody about for the marvellous storyboard meeting? | 15:00 |
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| betherly | o/ | 15:00 |
| betherly | hallo! | 15:00 |
| Zara | hi, betherly! | 15:01 |
| betherly | hey hey! | 15:01 |
| Zara | nice to see ya! | 15:01 |
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| betherly | likewise (virtually) | 15:01 |
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| Zara | #startmeeting storyboard | 15:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Aug 10 15:01:26 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is Zara. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 15:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 15:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: storyboard)" | 15:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'storyboard' | 15:01 |
| Zara | #topic Announcements | 15:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Announcements (Meeting topic: storyboard)" | 15:01 | |
| Zara | I have one! | 15:01 |
| Zara | review-dev is now integrated with storyboard-dev! | 15:01 |
| betherly | YAY | 15:02 |
| SotK | woo! | 15:02 |
| Zara | #link https://review-dev.openstack.org/#/q/status:open | 15:02 |
| betherly | congrats to all involved! | 15:02 |
| Zara | ^ patches there with a task id of a storyboard-dev task will update the status of that task | 15:02 |
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| * Zara looks for storyboard-dev example | 15:02 | |
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| Zara | I tested with... | 15:03 |
| Zara | #link https://storyboard-dev.openstack.org/#!/story/34 | 15:03 |
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| Zara | gerrit also lets us know there's a related patchset, some folks want to discuss more about where that link goes; I think it's something to iterate on once it's running in production | 15:03 |
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| Zara | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/347486/ | 15:04 |
| Zara | is the patch for *that* | 15:04 |
| Zara | so please have a play on storyboard-dev and review-dev | 15:04 |
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| Zara | and try out exciting gerrit things | 15:04 |
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| Zara | and thanks again, zaro, for all your help! and to everyone who has reviewed so far! | 15:04 |
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| Zara | that's all I have in the announcements | 15:05 |
| Zara | #topic Urgent Items | 15:05 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Urgent Items (Meeting topic: storyboard)" | 15:05 | |
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| Zara | I have nothing on the agenda, have I missed anything? | 15:05 |
| Zara | okay, will assume not, moving on! | 15:05 |
| Zara | #topic in-progress work | 15:06 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "in-progress work (Meeting topic: storyboard)" | 15:06 | |
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| Zara | so for me, I have the storyboard python client and CLI | 15:06 |
| Zara | I still need to get PUTs working for worklists and boards, and probably include comment history, for completeness, although infra aren't planning to use that feature | 15:06 |
| Zara | the CLI is so far rudimentary; I'm interested in soliciting feedback for how that should work from people who plan to interact with storyboard from the commandline | 15:07 |
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| Zara | so if that sounds like you, feel free to take a look and make some suggestions | 15:07 |
| Zara | at the moment it's just a goofy skeleton | 15:08 |
| Zara | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/348418/ | 15:08 |
| betherly | in progress work my end: still the tutorial (sorry) and prepping for the meetup with cool ux ideas etc | 15:08 |
| Zara | yay! | 15:08 |
| Zara | np, I gather you've been pretty busy with the eslint release and the upcoming ironic ui release | 15:08 |
| betherly | yup | 15:09 |
| SotK | I've been working on an events timeline for worklists and boards some more | 15:09 |
| Zara | (link to the etherpad for the meetup is here: https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/storyboard-js-meetup ) | 15:09 |
| SotK | I sent some patches, I'm going to rework them a bit to make the email notifications related to them nicer | 15:09 |
| Zara | well... | 15:09 |
| Zara | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/storyboard-js-meetup | 15:09 |
| Zara | SotK: oooh, okay, I'm sorry I haven't got to reviewing those yet | 15:10 |
| SotK | no worries :) | 15:10 |
| Zara | but if you're going to rework, I can hold off a bit | 15:10 |
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| Zara | which is it worth me looking at now? | 15:10 |
| SotK | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/342263/ won't change | 15:11 |
| Zara | okay | 15:11 |
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| betherly | good to know | 15:11 |
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| betherly | ill take a look | 15:11 |
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| SotK | I also got the complex priorities stuff almost ready to merge at last | 15:12 |
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| Zara | yay! | 15:12 |
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| Zara | I knew I forgot something on that agenda | 15:13 |
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| Zara | yes, iirc, we're happy with how it looks; we want to make it easier to *assign* priority from a story detail page before we replace the old global button | 15:13 |
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| Zara | so that means, make it easier to put a story/task in a worklist from the story page | 15:13 |
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| SotK | that matches my understanding of what is left | 15:14 |
| Zara | since we use the position in a worklist to indicate priority, to allow users to only subscribe to worklists of folks whose opinion on priority they care about. | 15:14 |
| Zara | hopefully avoiding situations where people just fight over whether a task is high priority or not because different people have different opinions | 15:14 |
| Zara | so the idea is that you subscribe to a worklist, if a task in a story is in that worklist, it's position will be noted. we have that bit. | 15:15 |
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| Zara | oh wow what a grammatically horrible sentence | 15:15 |
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| Zara | *so the idea is that you subscribe to a worklist. If a task in a story is in that worklist, its position will be noted. We display that bit in SotK's patch in review. | 15:16 |
| Zara | there we go | 15:16 |
| Zara | sorry, I just couldn't bear it | 15:16 |
| Zara | other things... | 15:16 |
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| Zara | I finally sorted out the page to view all boards and worklists! | 15:16 |
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| Zara | two patches in review, just seen I might need to adjust one | 15:17 |
| Zara | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/341562/ | 15:17 |
| Zara | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/279753/ | 15:17 |
| Zara | these make it possible to *find* boards and worklists | 15:17 |
| Zara | where previously you needed to be a user, owner, or creator, or to be given the url directly | 15:18 |
| Zara | the search isn't ideal; we still can't search by title, but we can search them by their stories and tasks | 15:18 |
| Zara | which is arguably more useful much of the time | 15:18 |
| Zara | so please take a look at those; they're webclient patches so the js-draft should indicate the behaviour | 15:19 |
| Zara | although the js-draft doesn't do pagination things right, for some reason | 15:19 |
| SotK | I think worklists can be searched by title | 15:19 |
| Zara | oh, sorry, yeah | 15:19 |
| SotK | just boards that are broken :3 | 15:19 |
| Zara | hahaha | 15:19 |
| Zara | we'll get there | 15:19 |
| Zara | other things... | 15:20 |
| Zara | matthewbodkin has been working on our developer docs! | 15:20 |
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| Zara | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/353517/ | 15:20 |
| Zara | they look good at a glance, have mentioned linewraps, feel free to review | 15:20 |
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| Zara | he's fixed a bunch of things that were broken in the 'how to install a storyboard instance' docs | 15:21 |
| Zara | we always find something new | 15:21 |
| Zara | so, thanks, matthew! | 15:21 |
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| Zara | and I think SotK has merged some of the remaining API docs patches from anita | 15:22 |
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| Zara | so thanks, SotK and anteaya for that | 15:22 |
| Zara | any more for any more? | 15:22 |
| * SotK hasn't got anything | 15:22 | |
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| Zara | I'll switch over to open discussion, then | 15:23 |
| Zara | #topic Open Discussion | 15:23 |
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| Zara | so, I linked the js meetup etherpad earlier | 15:23 |
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| SotK | \o/ | 15:24 |
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| Zara | the outline there is still sketchy, and a summary of a few irc things, please don't take it as set in stone and fill it out as best makes sense | 15:24 |
| Zara | + say if you're attending so we can get sufficient quantities of gummy sweets | 15:24 |
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| Zara | part of it is that, well, js folks know more about what js things are on the horizon (badum tish) than I do | 15:26 |
| Zara | I'm hoping the eslint upgrade doesn't reveal horrors in our webclient | 15:26 |
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| Zara | but yeah, anything in that area, I've just gestured at. | 15:26 |
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| Zara | other things | 15:27 |
| Zara | so, as far as I'm concerned, I'd be totally happy for the gerrit integration I've seen in dev to work the same way in production | 15:28 |
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| Zara | so I'd like to know if there's anything else we need to do, or if it's just a case of reviewing the patch I linked earlier, and then hopefully seeing it merged on the next gerrit restart | 15:28 |
| SotK | it seems to be working fine to me | 15:29 |
| SotK | (though I want a bikeshed about link posting sometime) | 15:29 |
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| Zara | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/347486/ | 15:30 |
| Zara | is the patch for installing it | 15:30 |
| Zara | it mentions a parameter needs to be set to enable the plugin, so I'm not sure if that needs to be a separate patch or if hte plan is to add it to that patch | 15:30 |
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| Zara | so! any thoughts from the wider world of infra very-much appreciated on that | 15:31 |
| Zara | I think we're nearly there | 15:31 |
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| Zara | I can ask about it in #openstack-infra if that makes sense; I don't want to ask repeatedly if I missed something | 15:33 |
| Zara | but I think the upgrade planned for later this week won't include it by default, so it'd be good to find out what the plan is there | 15:33 |
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| Zara | well, may as well check now, fungi, zaro, any thoughts on when we can expect storyboard-gerrit integration in production? we're happy with the behaviour we've seen in review-dev with storyboard-dev | 15:34 |
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| Zara | so I guess it depends on what infra think. | 15:35 |
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| Zara | well, seems there's some openstackid excitement in infra so people are probably busy right now, will ask there in a bit. :) | 15:37 |
| Zara | any other discussion points? | 15:37 |
| fungi | Zara: my plan was to update production gerrit on friday, but zaro was going to get back up with me yesterday after testing the current spate of updates to review-dev | 15:38 |
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| Zara | aha, thanks. I thought that upgrade didn't include storyboard things by default | 15:38 |
| Zara | sorry I misread that then | 15:38 |
| fungi | i didn't hear from him and saw him uploading some more changes that looked possibly related, so i held off sending an announcement | 15:38 |
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| fungi | i thought it was going to include the storyboard-its plugin stuff too | 15:39 |
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| Zara | okay, ace. :) I wanted to make sure it didn't slip through the cracks when we are SO CLOSE =D , but it sounds like it's not | 15:40 |
| Zara | so I'm happy | 15:40 |
| Zara | sorry for noise, guess it's good for the logs | 15:40 |
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| Zara | I don't have anything to add on that, then | 15:41 |
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| * SotK is excited for it | 15:42 | |
| SotK | that is all | 15:42 |
| Zara | haha | 15:42 |
| Zara | okay, in that case, I think we're done for today | 15:43 |
| Zara | meeting ends in... | 15:43 |
| Zara | 5! | 15:43 |
| Zara | 4! | 15:43 |
| Zara | 3! | 15:43 |
| Zara | 2! | 15:43 |
| Zara | 1!!!!!!1 | 15:43 |
| Zara | #endmeeting | 15:43 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 15:43 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Aug 10 15:43:19 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 15:43 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/storyboard/2016/storyboard.2016-08-10-15.01.html | 15:43 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/storyboard/2016/storyboard.2016-08-10-15.01.txt | 15:43 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/storyboard/2016/storyboard.2016-08-10-15.01.log.html | 15:43 |
| Zara | Thanks, everyone :) | 15:43 |
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| smcginnis | #startmeeting Cinder | 15:59 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Aug 10 15:59:55 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is smcginnis. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 15:59 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 15:59 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: Cinder)" | 15:59 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'cinder' | 15:59 |
| smcginnis | https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/CinderMeetings#Next_Cinder_Team_meeting | 16:00 |
| smcginnis | ping dulek duncant eharney geguileo winston-d e0ne jungleboyj jgriffith thingee smcginnis hemna xyang1 tbarron scottda erlon rhedlind jbernard _alastor_ bluex vincent_hou kmartin patrickeast sheel dongwenjuan JaniceLee cFouts Thelo vivekd adrianofr mtanino yuriy_n17 karlamrhein diablo_rojo jay.xu jgregor baumann rajinir wilson-l reduxio wanghao thrawn01 chris_morrell watanabe.isao,tommylike.hu | 16:00 |
| yuriy_n17 | hi | 16:00 |
| _alastor_ | o/ | 16:00 |
| scottda | hi | 16:00 |
| erlon | hey | 16:00 |
| smcginnis | Greetings and salutations. | 16:00 |
| geguileo | Hi! o/ | 16:00 |
| Swanson | hello | 16:00 |
| e0ne | hi | 16:00 |
| tommylikehu | hello | 16:00 |
| mtanino | hello | 16:00 |
| eharney | hi | 16:00 |
| baumann | Hello all | 16:00 |
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| flip214 | hi | 16:00 |
| fernnest | hi | 16:00 |
| hemna | hey | 16:00 |
| guy___ | hi | 16:00 |
| jseiler | hi | 16:00 |
| smcginnis | #topic Announcements | 16:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Announcements (Meeting topic: Cinder)" | 16:00 | |
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| tbarron | hi | 16:01 |
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| wewe0901 | hi | 16:01 |
| smcginnis | Just the usual... | 16:01 |
| xyang1 | hi | 16:01 |
| smcginnis | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/cinder-spec-review-tracking Review focus | 16:01 |
| rhedlind | hi | 16:01 |
| smcginnis | I need to spend some time updating that etherpad. | 16:01 |
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| e0ne | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/CinderMeetings#Next_Cinder_Team_meeting | 16:01 |
| patrickeast | Hi | 16:02 |
| smcginnis | #undo | 16:02 |
| openstack | Removing item from minutes: <ircmeeting.items.Link object at 0x7f5bbf31e9d0> | 16:02 |
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| smcginnis | e0ne: Doesn't really do any good to have that in the logs when it's always changing. ;) | 16:02 |
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| jgregor | Hello | 16:02 |
| adrianofr_ | hi | 16:02 |
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| smcginnis | #topic Policy on adding new APIs | 16:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Policy on adding new APIs (Meeting topic: Cinder)" | 16:02 | |
| ntpttr___ | hi | 16:02 |
| avishay | hi | 16:02 |
| smcginnis | scottda: Hey | 16:02 |
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| scottda | Hey. so this came up during review.. | 16:02 |
| scottda | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/351275/ | 16:03 |
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| hemna | scottda, is this the volume group review ? | 16:03 |
| diablo_rojo | Hello | 16:03 |
| scottda | We added support for cinder list-manageable | 16:03 |
| scottda | hemna: no | 16:03 |
| e0ne | scottda: IMO, we should implement everythong new as microversion, not extension | 16:03 |
| hemna | oh ok | 16:03 |
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| scottda | and the new api is available on both /v3 endpoint (with microversion) and on /v2 endpoint.. | 16:03 |
| scottda | e0ne: I agree | 16:04 |
| jungleboyj | o/ | 16:04 |
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| smcginnis | As an extension - that's a significant point. | 16:04 |
| hemna | I don't think we should add new APIs to v2 | 16:04 |
| scottda | This one was in-flight during mitaka, so it's a bit on the fence for microversions. | 16:04 |
| hemna | that's kinda the point of v3 microversions | 16:04 |
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| eharney | i think the whole "official" theory of microversions is that we'd add new things into microversions, might as well start doing that now and stop w/ v2 | 16:04 |
| smcginnis | But yeah, I agree we should only go with microversions at this point. | 16:04 |
| hemna | otherwise we are back where we started with v2 new APIs and versions nightmare | 16:04 |
| e0ne | hemna: +1 | 16:04 |
| geguileo | I agree, we have to use microversions for everything | 16:04 |
| _alastor_ | hemna: +1 | 16:04 |
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| geguileo | And we actually agreed to that | 16:05 |
| scottda | OK. Any dissent on the fact that we should not be adding any new/changed APi to /v2? | 16:05 |
| geguileo | That's why I had to change my A/A patches to use microversions for the new APIs | 16:05 |
| smcginnis | I can't remember, but I think the argument at the time was that doing an extension wasn't technically modifying the v2 API. But that's just a path to confusion IMO. | 16:05 |
| hemna | ick | 16:06 |
| eharney | smcginnis: technically true, but i think it's still best to not do it | 16:06 |
| smcginnis | eharney: I agree. | 16:06 |
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| scottda | avishay: Anything to say on this? We still need to discuss the status of cinderclient changes to expose /v2 endpoint for list-manageable... | 16:06 |
| scottda | since we already merged /v2 support for list-manageable in the c-api | 16:06 |
| smcginnis | #info No new v2 extensions to the API. All changes must now only be v3 microversions. | 16:06 |
| avishay | scottda: Whatever you guys decide. It's already in and kind of a pain to remove the v2 extension now, but if that's the vote, that's the vote... | 16:07 |
| xyang2 | scottda: isn't the server side change already merged for this one? | 16:07 |
| jungleboyj | smcginnis: +2 | 16:07 |
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| avishay | xyang2: yes | 16:07 |
| scottda | I'm Not in favor of removing the /v2 extension that we've merged. It's already exposed.... | 16:07 |
| scottda | xyang2: Yes. | 16:07 |
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| smcginnis | scottda: So leave it as an oops and move on? | 16:08 |
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| eharney | i'm fine with leaving what already merged too | 16:08 |
| scottda | smcginnis: That's my opinion. | 16:08 |
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| diablo_rojo | scottda: +1 | 16:08 |
| smcginnis | I'm fine with that. It's already out there. | 16:08 |
| hemna | if it's already in v2, then add the cinder client change to make it usable :) | 16:08 |
| tommylikehu | +1 | 16:08 |
| scottda | hemna: +1 | 16:08 |
| e0ne | but we merged in only in Newton | 16:08 |
| erlon | hemna: +1 | 16:08 |
| scottda | and it will also be usable as a /v3 microversion. | 16:09 |
| jungleboyj | Yeah, it is out there in the wild we can't fix it but now we know the plan going forward. | 16:09 |
| diablo_rojo | hemna: +1 | 16:09 |
| hemna | so the alternative is to move it to v3 and microversion it? | 16:09 |
| * DuncanT wakes up | 16:09 | |
| smcginnis | OK, so task for cores - be aware of this and watch to make sure we don't let any other v2 extensions through. ;) | 16:09 |
| avishay | hemna: it's already in v3, microversioned, but also a v2 extension | 16:09 |
| jungleboyj | It was implied we wouldn't update v2 after v3 went out. We made a mistake. | 16:09 |
| _alastor_ | hemna: I think it's already available as a v3 microversion | 16:09 |
| smcginnis | myself included | 16:09 |
| scottda | hemna: It already is on v3. But on /v2 as well | 16:09 |
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| hemna | oh...hrmm | 16:10 |
| scottda | The only real issue here is that we've exposed it on /v2, and we don't want to do that anymore. I say, leave it, let the client support /v2 ( and v3 + microversions) and don't do it again. | 16:10 |
| smcginnis | scottda: OK, I think we have consensus on that. | 16:10 |
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| smcginnis | scottda: +1 | 16:10 |
| hemna | but this only landed in the newton cycle ? | 16:10 |
| e0ne | hemna: yes | 16:10 |
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| hemna | flip a coin | 16:11 |
| hemna | :P | 16:11 |
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| avishay | heads | 16:11 |
| hemna | win! | 16:11 |
| scottda | done | 16:11 |
| e0ne | hemna: and it sounds safety to remove it from v2 | 16:11 |
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| smcginnis | OK, one final time - anyone have any big objections to accepting that we made a mistake allowing a v2 extension in, but now it's there so we should just leave it, and we should make sure we don't do it again? | 16:11 |
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| DuncanT | I'd leave it now it is merged | 16:12 |
| tommylikehu | agree | 16:12 |
| DuncanT | Some people run from head, not releases | 16:12 |
| DuncanT | We should get used to not screwing them up unnecessarily | 16:12 |
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| smcginnis | :) | 16:12 |
| xyang2 | what about the client side? that's not merged yet | 16:12 |
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| scottda | I say merge the client /v2 support. This is how we've done things in the past, so it's not without precedent | 16:13 |
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| e0ne | xyang2: if we leave it in service-side, we should merge client too | 16:13 |
| DuncanT | If we've got the server API in V2, merge the client for sure | 16:13 |
| xyang2 | ok | 16:13 |
| smcginnis | OK good. | 16:14 |
| jungleboyj | Avoid confusion around partially implemented support. | 16:14 |
| scottda | Thanks everyone | 16:14 |
| smcginnis | Let's move on then. | 16:14 |
| avishay | Cool, thanks | 16:14 |
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| smcginnis | #topic What makes a storage solution suitable for use as a backup target? | 16:14 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "What makes a storage solution suitable for use as a backup target? (Meeting topic: Cinder)" | 16:14 | |
| smcginnis | DuncanT: up | 16:14 |
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| DuncanT | Ok, so this was prompted by the disco driver | 16:14 |
| smcginnis | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/349318/ Backup driver patch that prompted this. | 16:15 |
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| DuncanT | But to give him credit, John Griffith predicted it too | 16:15 |
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| DuncanT | What do and don't we want to allow as backup drivers? | 16:15 |
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| DuncanT | There's an argument that any sort of storage /can/ be used, but that starts to get silly very quickly, and encourages deployments that don't isolate storage between volumes and backups, which defeats the purpose. | 16:16 |
| DuncanT | Anybody got any good ideas? | 16:16 |
| avishay | DuncanT: I guess if it's moving the data to independent storage, and recovery is possible if the original site is destroyed? | 16:16 |
| hemna | DuncanT, isn't that mostly a deployment problem though? | 16:16 |
| hemna | if an admin creates volumes and backs them up to the same backend...isn't that his problem ? | 16:17 |
| hemna | not Cinder's | 16:17 |
| smcginnis | Is there something special the driver can do to optimize or improve the backup and/or recovery that can't be done with an existing driver? | 16:17 |
| geguileo | hemna: +1 | 16:17 |
| e0ne | henma: +1, good point | 16:17 |
| DuncanT | hemna: It is, but when your only backup target we swift, that wasn't possible. | 16:17 |
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| flip214 | smcginnis: it might do incremental copying, for example. | 16:17 |
| hemna | DuncanT, and I don't think that's a good thing... | 16:17 |
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| flip214 | hemna: well, DRBD is the same "backend" as seen by Cinder | 16:18 |
| avishay | will all vendors implement backup drivers using replication? :) | 16:18 |
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| hemna | flip214, sure, that's a bit of a special case | 16:18 |
| DuncanT | avishay: different concepts as presented to the tenant | 16:18 |
| flip214 | but you can add copies, which would satisfy the "independent storage" criteria | 16:18 |
| hemna | as drbd isn't a single box/point of failure | 16:18 |
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| DuncanT | I mean we could just write a backup driver that can use any cinder driver, just seems daft | 16:18 |
| hemna | DuncanT, I think that's probably a decent way to go | 16:19 |
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| flip214 | I was about to suggest that "if a snapshot can be restored on the backup backend without dd, it's not a backup", but just invalidated my own argument ;) | 16:19 |
| hemna | then backup can use any existing driver | 16:19 |
| DuncanT | hemna: Yuck | 16:19 |
| hemna | maybe add some new driver methods for backup purposes | 16:19 |
| thingee | o/ | 16:19 |
| DuncanT | thingee: sup? | 16:19 |
| e0ne | DuncanT: why not? if storage doesn't supppor this feature, cinder should provide backups, IMO | 16:19 |
| hemna | e0ne, +1 | 16:20 |
| smcginnis | DuncanT: Less yuck if you think of backing up one backend to another backend. Just no reason to do same to same. | 16:20 |
| DuncanT | If you want to do that though, just use clone volume to a different type and avoid all the downsides of the backup interface | 16:20 |
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| hemna | rm -rf cinder/backup | 16:20 |
| xyang2 | DuncanT: I think with Ceph, you can also use it as volume storage as well as backup device. block for volume, object for backup | 16:20 |
| hemna | :P | 16:20 |
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| e0ne | hemna: it's too easy | 16:20 |
| hemna | seriously though, I think it's a good thing to add backup capabilities to any backend that cinder supports. how we do it is one thing | 16:21 |
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| winston-d | xyang2: +2 for merging swift into cinder. ;) | 16:21 |
| xyang2 | winston-d: swift can't do block though:) | 16:21 |
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| e0ne | hemna: and we will have CI for backups! I like it! | 16:21 |
| bswartz | no matter what kind of interfaces we design and what kinds of drivers we allow, deployers will always be able to deploy it ways that are horribly unsafe, horribly inefficient, and horribly expensive | 16:21 |
| DuncanT | hemna: as a backup target or source? Every backend should be a source for sure (and therefore restore target). Storing backups on cinder backends seems daft though | 16:21 |
| smcginnis | DuncanT: So I know it's not your patch, but do you know if the disco one is doing anything special that would benefit end users? | 16:21 |
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| bswartz | so why not provide as many options as possible? | 16:22 |
| DuncanT | guy___: Are you here? | 16:22 |
| guy___ | DuncanT: yes | 16:22 |
| hemna | bswartz, +1 | 16:22 |
| eharney | bswartz: agreed | 16:22 |
| hemna | DuncanT, some backends can do backupy like stuffs though | 16:22 |
| e0ne | bswartz: +1 | 16:22 |
| hemna | it's a deployment choice | 16:22 |
| flip214 | DuncanT: why would using cinder be daft? | 16:22 |
| Swanson | bswartz, +1 | 16:22 |
| DuncanT | bswartz: Support and test matrix. Trying to help people deploy sane systems. | 16:22 |
| DuncanT | flip214: Just use clone volume, and get a copy of the data with way more flexibility and potentially performance | 16:23 |
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| bswartz | DuncanT: that's probably better address through guides and documentation than control of what code goes in | 16:23 |
| bswartz | addressed* | 16:23 |
| winston-d | sorry to joining late, is there any specific change/patch we are refering to or this is just a general discussion for backup? | 16:24 |
| Swanson | Seems like a documentation/training issue. Don't do backups to the thing you just spent a million on. | 16:24 |
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| DuncanT | winston-d: DISCO backup driver prompted it | 16:24 |
| bswartz | winston-d: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/349318/ | 16:24 |
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| flip214 | DuncanT: ah yes, right. | 16:24 |
| winston-d | DuncanT, bswartz: thx | 16:24 |
| DuncanT | winston-d: It's a general discussion though | 16:24 |
| guy___ | smcginnis: disco do the backup into another disco instance | 16:25 |
| flip214 | so, not backups per se, but a special backup API. got it. | 16:25 |
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| flip214 | a separate backup API would make sense if it keeps the data path out of the cinder node, ie. directly goes storage => storage. | 16:25 |
| flip214 | but that will be hard to do cross-vendor... | 16:26 |
| smcginnis | guy___: So just a quick scan - the benefit is if you are doing DISCO to another DISCO there are some built in capabilities that would optimize that backup and restore. Is that a correct statement? | 16:26 |
| DuncanT | flip214: The migrate API already allows that... nothing needs adding | 16:26 |
| xyang2 | DuncanT: my understanding is a backup device usually supports object or file. if a storage only supports block, it's not used as backup device usually due to number of volumes limitation. So if storage support object or file, I don't see why it can't be used to do backups | 16:26 |
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| guy___ | smcginnis: yes it is correct | 16:26 |
| avishay | DuncanT: yea, you can do a generic backup driver with clone + migrate | 16:26 |
| eharney | smcginnis: that's the same model the ceph backup driver follows | 16:27 |
| avishay | xyang2: not every block storage limits # of volumes | 16:27 |
| smcginnis | So then at least in this instance, I don't see why we wouldn't allow that if it brings a definite improvement for users. | 16:27 |
| eharney | smcginnis: it gives you a good reason to use a cinder driver for it rather than sticking it behind swift | 16:27 |
| hemna | smcginnis, +1 | 16:28 |
| xyang2 | avishay: in that case, block is ok too | 16:28 |
| DuncanT | Does it provide any benefit that the clone plus migrate model wouldn't? | 16:28 |
| guy___ | wewe0901 and I both work on disco , we have a feature call WADB. When a user wants to backup their volume to another deployment of disco, . we can backup all data and snapshots ( transfer delta to remote and take snapshot on remote disco deployment). | 16:28 |
| winston-d | xyang2: even cinder vol backend shouldn't have # vol limit IMHO | 16:29 |
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| DuncanT | winston-d: There's always the limit you hit when you run out of disk space, so every backend has a limit | 16:30 |
| bswartz | DuncanT: I'm not sure what you're getting at -- but the advantage of backups compared to clone+migrate is that backups are not required to be attachable like volumes are | 16:30 |
| avishay | DuncanT: I guess the main advantage is incremental | 16:30 |
| hemna | avishay, +1 | 16:30 |
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| DuncanT | bswartz: I meant for the disco driver... if we're opening this up wide then we should do a generic thing immediately | 16:31 |
| bswartz | I see | 16:31 |
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| avishay | backup is basically replication with possibly higher RPO and with restore capability (higher RTO) | 16:31 |
| xyang2 | DuncanT: nfs also has a cinder driver and backup driver. what's the difference with disco? | 16:31 |
| DuncanT | e0ne: This has nothing to do with storage features | 16:32 |
| DuncanT | xyang2: I want to avoid needing a separate backup driver for every cinder storage backend | 16:32 |
| bswartz | xyang2: nfs volume driver and nfs backup driver could run on entirely different NFS implemetnations | 16:32 |
| tbarron | IMO it would make sense to do the generic part of this driver generically - it's basically a dd - and put in a hook for vendor-advantaged backup (from disco to disco e.g.) | 16:32 |
| DuncanT | The disco driver isn't using the chunked infrastructure, so it seems that there's nothing that could be made much more generic | 16:33 |
| xyang2 | bswartz, DuncanT: I have not looked at the disco patch. Does it require them to be on the same node? | 16:33 |
| tbarron | xyang2: nfs driver went out of its way to fit in to a pretty genric scheme | 16:33 |
| avishay | i don't know what the latest replication API is, but couldn't a generic backup driver between storages of the same type be implemented that way? | 16:33 |
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| avishay | xyang2: guy___ says it's two separate disco deployments | 16:34 |
| tbarron | the generic part of this driver is from foreign volume to disco | 16:34 |
| tbarron | and it's basically a dd | 16:34 |
| DuncanT | There's nothing in the DISCO driver to do incremental unless you're doing disco-to-disco either | 16:34 |
| xyang2 | avishay: ok, so I don't see a problem then | 16:34 |
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| bswartz | avishay: the latest replication API not really comparable to the current backup API | 16:34 |
| DuncanT | Replication != backup | 16:35 |
| avishay | xyang2: i don't think there's a problem either | 16:35 |
| DuncanT | They're different ways of protecting data | 16:35 |
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| xyang2 | DuncanT: oh, so it doesn't inherit from the chunked driver | 16:35 |
| DuncanT | Backups are point in time. | 16:35 |
| DuncanT | xyang2: No | 16:35 |
| tbarron | i think we want to figure a way forwards for vendor-advantaged backup when from same type of backend to (another AZ with) the same type of backend | 16:35 |
| xyang2 | DuncanT: agree replication and backups are different | 16:35 |
| smcginnis | tbarron: +1 | 16:36 |
| DuncanT | So If people thing there's a benefit to having backup to block devices, then I think we can do much better than this driver | 16:36 |
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| avishay | DuncanT: if you do async replication by taking a snapshot and sending the diff, it's exactly the same | 16:36 |
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| tbarron | but i don't think the generic (foreign to disco) part of this adds value or is generic enough | 16:36 |
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| DuncanT | avishay: Implementation detail. You can implement one using the other as a building block, doesn't make it the same thing | 16:36 |
| xyang2 | tbarron: right, vendor has incremental snapshot support that can be leveraged | 16:36 |
| smcginnis | DuncanT: I think there are clear advantages for folks going disco to disco (party hopping?), so I think this driver is good. | 16:36 |
| smcginnis | DuncanT: But aside from that, it's an interesting idea to think about a generic approach. | 16:37 |
| DuncanT | It think we should design a good (supporting incremental, etc) version of backup-to-block and add vendor magic hooks to that | 16:37 |
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| smcginnis | DiskToDiskBackupDriver | 16:37 |
| DuncanT | Rather than merging another special case driver that makes future work hard | 16:37 |
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| DuncanT | smcginnis: Sure | 16:37 |
| bswartz | DuncanT: I can agree with that | 16:37 |
| winston-d | DuncanT: +1 | 16:38 |
| avishay | DuncanT: +1 | 16:38 |
| e0ne | DuncanT: +1 | 16:38 |
| DuncanT | I think we should be looking at nice things like change block tracking driven backups, and adding another driver unlike all the others just makes adding things like that harder | 16:38 |
| avishay | DuncanT: what i meant was some drivers would be able to use their storage's replication feature to implement the magic hook | 16:38 |
| flip214 | DuncanT: +1 | 16:38 |
| DuncanT | The TSM driver is already a bit of a millstone on backup developing | 16:38 |
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| DuncanT | avishay: Maybe, but backups are point in time, a different thing in general to replication | 16:39 |
| DuncanT | guy___: Comments? | 16:39 |
| avishay | DuncanT: depends on the implementation, that's why i said some drivers | 16:39 |
| smcginnis | Well, another relevant point to this discussion then is who will be working on this general backup mechanism? | 16:39 |
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| smcginnis | If no one can/will, then it's kind of a moot point. | 16:39 |
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| DuncanT | smcginnis: It generally comes down to 'those who see sufficient value in the feature' | 16:40 |
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| xyang2 | DuncanT: so allow driver to use incremental snapshots if on the same storage, otherwise provide a generic implementation using the chunked driver? | 16:40 |
| DuncanT | smcginnis: It's why we block non-generic things - to drive the work on the generic thing | 16:40 |
| avishay | there is value IMO. if someone ever does something generic i guess this one can be refactored. | 16:40 |
| bswartz | smcginnis: it's not moot if we officially declare that we won't accept specific implementations of block-to-block backup and tell the interested parties to work on a generic way of doing it | 16:40 |
| eharney | just adding another driver sounds like way less work than trying to launch an effort on a new overarching generic plan which may or may not actually be worked on | 16:41 |
| guy___ | DuncanT: as tbarron said, we use dd for foreign volume to disco and some advantages to backup disco to disco | 16:41 |
| DuncanT | xyang2: Not sure on the fine details, but sounds right | 16:41 |
| smcginnis | eharney: That's where I'm at right now. | 16:41 |
| xyang2 | DuncanT: have you submitted a bp in Nova for the changed block thing? | 16:41 |
| xyang2 | DuncanT: you mentioned about it at the summit | 16:41 |
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| eharney | changed block tracking is an enormous effort and not interesting for discussing any of this today IMO | 16:41 |
| tbarron | i think that's another discussion | 16:41 |
| DuncanT | But if we add the driver now, then the impetuous to work on the generic version is gone | 16:41 |
| hemna | tbarron, +1 | 16:42 |
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| DuncanT | xyang2: My employer currently doesn't want to pay me to work on it, or indeed anything cinder related... | 16:42 |
| tbarron | but i sure wouldn't mind thought being put into how to use the pretty generic infra we have now (chunked driver) with hooks for vendor advantaged drivers | 16:42 |
| xyang2 | DuncanT: :( | 16:42 |
| smcginnis | We have 7 backup drivers as of right now: http://docs.openstack.org/developer/cinder/drivers.html#backup-drivers | 16:42 |
| smcginnis | Just a data point. | 16:43 |
| hemna | DuncanT, join the club | 16:43 |
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| DuncanT | smcginnis: Most of them are just details on the chunked driver though... they all follow the same model | 16:43 |
| avishay | also backup driver CI *hides* | 16:43 |
| smcginnis | Yeah, almost all inherit from the chunked driver. | 16:43 |
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| hemna | hey, no CI = driver removal | 16:44 |
| hemna | rm -rf cinder/backup | 16:44 |
| hemna | problem solved! | 16:44 |
| DuncanT | dd is a step backwards in general... the disco driver only gives any real value for disco-to-dicso | 16:44 |
| diablo_rojo | hemna: Ha ha :) | 16:44 |
| e0ne | hemna: :) | 16:44 |
| avishay | hemna: very generic indeed | 16:44 |
| geguileo | XD XD | 16:44 |
| DuncanT | ceph and swift backup both get some testing in gate FWIW | 16:44 |
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| DuncanT | guy___: Do you guys (pun not intended) have any bandwidth to look at improving the none-disco source case? | 16:46 |
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| * tommylikehu wake up | 16:49 | |
| DuncanT | It's all gone quiet... netsplit? | 16:49 |
| bswartz | is there a netsplit going on? | 16:49 |
| winston-d | shall we continue? | 16:50 |
| smcginnis | I don't see anyone stepping up to do the generic work. | 16:50 |
| diablo_rojo | Lol I thought my IRC disconnected cause no one was talking. | 16:50 |
| tommylikehu | i have no idea | 16:50 |
| e0ne | nobody wants/has resources to implement generic driver | 16:50 |
| DuncanT | I'm not a fan of merging something obviously weak and very focused on one vendor. If we did that the very good generic interfaces we have would never have happened | 16:51 |
| e0ne | DuncanT: +1 | 16:51 |
| smcginnis | Isn't the whole point of our drivers that they are focused on one vendor? | 16:51 |
| hemna | smcginnis, +1 | 16:51 |
| DuncanT | Not really, no. | 16:51 |
| DuncanT | The CG interfaces, replication, etc | 16:51 |
| winston-d | one example is generic volume migration | 16:52 |
| DuncanT | Lots of work went in to make sure those were useful to many vendors | 16:52 |
| eharney | on the other hand, the generic interfaces have resulted in about 7 drivers total so far, so... i'm not sure they did a lot if the goal is to make it easy to enable more backends | 16:52 |
| xyang2 | winston-d: yes, that is generic solution | 16:52 |
| winston-d | we actually merged that before we merge the migration support for rbd | 16:52 |
| hemna | those are cinder features, not drivers though. | 16:52 |
| DuncanT | Migration too. Even backup itself has worked hard to be better than DD for any source volume | 16:52 |
| hemna | 2 different topics imho | 16:52 |
| smcginnis | And backup is useful to many vendors. Just like replication and CG. It's the individual cases that have optimizations. | 16:52 |
| DuncanT | eharney: The chunked driver made it trivial to implement the google driver, as an example | 16:53 |
| DuncanT | But dd is a pretty poor way of doing a backup | 16:53 |
| smcginnis | And migration is the same. If you don't have a vendor solution, set up an NFS share and use the generic case. Otherwise use the vendor driver if there is one. | 16:53 |
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| winston-d | think about replication v1 and v2k | 16:53 |
| * hemna writes the dropbox backup driver..... | 16:53 | |
| guy___ | DuncanT: currently, we proposed to use dd for non disco to disco use case. We need to discuss among the team how we can improve it later. | 16:53 |
| smcginnis | hemna: Hey, that might not be bad. ;) | 16:53 |
| cFouts | o/ | 16:54 |
| hemna | :) | 16:54 |
| DuncanT | hemna: About 30 lines of code | 16:54 |
| xyang2 | guy_: have you looked at the chunked driver? Isn't that something you can leverage | 16:54 |
| DuncanT | guy___: I'd rather see some evidence of that work (even a spec) before we merge this.... | 16:54 |
| e0ne | hemna: don't forget about CI:) | 16:54 |
| DuncanT | guy___: Maybe use the chunked driver, but I'm not sure where you'd save the metadata file | 16:54 |
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| DuncanT | hemna: The chunked driver code was written the way it is to make that sort of thing really trivial | 16:55 |
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| guy___ | xyang2, DuncanT: I haven't looked at the chunked driver. I will take a look. | 16:56 |
| scottda | 5 minute warning | 16:56 |
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| smcginnis | I don't think we're going to come to a consensus in the next 5 minutes. | 16:56 |
| xyang2 | guy__: great! if you can use chunked driver rather than dd, that will be awesome | 16:56 |
| DuncanT | xyang2: +1 | 16:56 |
| smcginnis | Anything else about this we should cover while we're on it? | 16:56 |
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| guy___ | xyang2: +1 | 16:56 |
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| smcginnis | No time, but distros and end users, please weigh in on this if you can: http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2016-August/101028.html | 16:57 |
| hemna | *sigh* | 16:58 |
| smcginnis | Anything else really quick? | 16:58 |
| hemna | that is the saddest thread on the ML ever. | 16:58 |
| DuncanT | On a totally different note, somebody mentioned some broken CIs in the channel earlier... can anybody remember which ones? | 16:58 |
| eharney | yeah i'm not even sure where to go with that thread | 16:58 |
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| smcginnis | DuncanT: I'll run the script again. | 16:58 |
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| hemna | seriously, new cinder github, we post driver changes there. | 16:58 |
| xyang2 | smcginnis: there's a reply saying it is ok if we don't name it stable branch | 16:58 |
| eharney | DuncanT: Huawei was one of them | 16:58 |
| Swanson | Huawei FusionStorage CI and VMware NSX CI are having issues this morning. FYI. | 16:58 |
| smcginnis | hemna: That may be what we have to do, but we need to talk about it. | 16:58 |
| hemna | yah | 16:59 |
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| geguileo | hemna: With Travis running pep8 and unitests | 16:59 |
| smcginnis | And we'll need more time than we have for that conversation. | 16:59 |
| smcginnis | geguileo: Ooh, good call. | 16:59 |
| xyang2 | smcginnis: so cut a branch and name it something else and we are ok? | 16:59 |
| DuncanT | xyang2: Unfortunately, that's one person's view. There's nothing like a contentious on that | 16:59 |
| fernnest | I can tell you as someone who has to try to keep their CI running in their spare time, it is hard! | 16:59 |
| xyang2 | I don't think a consensus can ever be made on the mailing list | 16:59 |
| smcginnis | OK, we're out of time. THanks everyone. | 16:59 |
| Swanson | toodles | 17:00 |
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| DuncanT | fernnest: I think that is somewhat indicative of the sad state of openstack, personally | 17:00 |
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| smcginnis | #endmeeting | 17:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 17:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Aug 10 17:00:12 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 17:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/cinder/2016/cinder.2016-08-10-15.59.html | 17:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/cinder/2016/cinder.2016-08-10-15.59.txt | 17:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/cinder/2016/cinder.2016-08-10-15.59.log.html | 17:00 |
| _alastor_ | o/ | 17:00 |
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| krtaylor | #startmeeting ironic_qa | 17:02 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Aug 10 17:02:16 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is krtaylor. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 17:02 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 17:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: ironic_qa)" | 17:02 | |
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| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'ironic_qa' | 17:02 |
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| mjturek1 | o/ | 17:02 |
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| rpioso | o/ | 17:02 |
| krtaylor | hi all, sorry for the late start, just found out I was chairing the meeting today :) | 17:02 |
| [1]cdearborn | \o | 17:02 |
| devananda | o/ | 17:03 |
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| krtaylor | as always, the agenda is at: | 17:03 |
| krtaylor | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/Ironic-QA | 17:03 |
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| jroll | \o | 17:04 |
| krtaylor | #topic announcements | 17:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "announcements (Meeting topic: ironic_qa)" | 17:04 | |
| krtaylor | any announcements? | 17:04 |
| krtaylor | I'll take that as a "no" | 17:05 |
| krtaylor | #topic Multi-node Grenade testing of Ironic | 17:05 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Multi-node Grenade testing of Ironic (Meeting topic: ironic_qa)" | 17:05 | |
| krtaylor | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/ironic-newton-grenade-whiteboard | 17:05 |
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| vdrok | o/ | 17:06 |
| krtaylor | jlvillal is busy atm, but maybe we can come back to this in the open discussion? | 17:06 |
| krtaylor | anything to bring up now? | 17:06 |
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| krtaylor | ok, let's come back to it in open discussion, maybe jlvillal will be back then | 17:07 |
| krtaylor | #topic Third party CI | 17:07 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Third party CI (Meeting topic: ironic_qa)" | 17:07 | |
| krtaylor | lots of activity here | 17:07 |
| krtaylor | jroll, want to bring up the email? | 17:08 |
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| krtaylor | well, I have pushed a new stackalytics patch for driver CI systems | 17:09 |
| krtaylor | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/330270/ | 17:09 |
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| devananda | krtaylor: a couple of us are on a call right now - trying to wrap it up | 17:10 |
| krtaylor | thanks devananda | 17:10 |
| krtaylor | and I have started an outline for the CI documentation in the developer docs, felt like the right place for it | 17:11 |
| krtaylor | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/353102/ | 17:11 |
| jroll | yeah, so I sent an email earlier with a couple todos | 17:11 |
| jroll | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2016-August/101331.html | 17:11 |
| krtaylor | there are a few sections there, I am going to get mjturek1 to help fill it in | 17:11 |
| jroll | that also has a list of drivers that will likely be dropped | 17:11 |
| jroll | I see there's some replies, but I haven't read them yet | 17:12 |
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| krtaylor | jroll, do we want to set a cutoff date? | 17:13 |
| krtaylor | I think thee are a couple of systems "on the bubble" | 17:13 |
| jroll | krtaylor: yeah, I'm still noodling on it | 17:14 |
| jroll | I have some emails out privately to a couple systems that aren't reporting on many changes | 17:14 |
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| krtaylor | jroll, fair enough | 17:15 |
| krtaylor | ok, so let's move on | 17:15 |
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| krtaylor | #topic Open Discussion | 17:15 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: ironic_qa)" | 17:15 | |
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| krtaylor | we can sit here for a few mins and see if grenade or CI or other topics come back as folks free up | 17:16 |
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| krtaylor | otherwise, this may be one of the fastest QA meetings ever :) | 17:16 |
| [1]cdearborn | FYI - rajinir is working on getting CI working here at Dell for the iDRAC driver | 17:17 |
| [1]cdearborn | but she is on vacation ATM | 17:17 |
| [1]cdearborn | not sure of the status at this time | 17:17 |
| vdrok | as of multinode status - I think the current state is - the 2-node setup succeeds, but no vms are created on the subnode | 17:17 |
| krtaylor | hey [1]cdearborn, thanks for the update | 17:18 |
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| jroll | thanks [1]cdearborn, now I don't need to email you :D | 17:18 |
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| vdrok | to be able to create the vms on the subnodes, we need flat network enablement patches + there will be more things to fix afterwards | 17:18 |
| jroll | vdrok: that matches what vasyl said earlier | 17:18 |
| jroll | I talked to vasyl about just doing multitenant for multinode, since he said that would work | 17:19 |
| jroll | he was okay with that | 17:19 |
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| vdrok | yeah, that too | 17:19 |
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| vdrok | still, flat would be nice to have too I think :) | 17:20 |
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| jroll | indeed | 17:21 |
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| [1]cdearborn | just checked the calendar, and rajinir will be back from vaca tomorrow - will ask her to send out an update | 17:21 |
| jroll | thanks! | 17:22 |
| * jroll has nothing else for this meeting | 17:22 | |
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| krtaylor | [1]cdearborn, feel free to ping me or mjturek1 for help, there is also the #openstack-third-party-ci channel | 17:22 |
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| mjturek1 | yep, please do | 17:23 |
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| [1]cdearborn | aok - I know she was running into quite a few networking related issues related to the various variables that needed to be set, and what they needed to be set to. She spent about a week working on that with a Dell networking guy. Not sure where that ended up. Thx very much for the offers of help! May take you up on that... | 17:24 |
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| krtaylor | ok, so looks like we are winding down, anything else? | 17:26 |
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| krtaylor | I'll call it then, thanks everyone! | 17:26 |
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| krtaylor | #endmeeting | 17:27 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 17:27 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Aug 10 17:27:14 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 17:27 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/ironic_qa/2016/ironic_qa.2016-08-10-17.02.html | 17:27 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/ironic_qa/2016/ironic_qa.2016-08-10-17.02.txt | 17:27 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/ironic_qa/2016/ironic_qa.2016-08-10-17.02.log.html | 17:27 |
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| notmyname | #startmeeting swift | 21:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Aug 10 21:00:08 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is notmyname. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 21:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 21:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: swift)" | 21:00 | |
| notmyname | hello, everyone. | 21:00 |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'swift' | 21:00 |
| notmyname | who's here for the swift team meeting? | 21:00 |
| nadeem | o/ | 21:00 |
| bkeller` | o/ | 21:00 |
| sgundur1 | hi | 21:00 |
| kei_yama | o/ | 21:00 |
| mmotiani | hi | 21:00 |
| torgomatic | . | 21:00 |
| cutforth | o/ | 21:00 |
| ntata | o/ | 21:01 |
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| notmyname | I think tburke and clayg are in a meeting (but they've heard enough of me ranting this week ;-) | 21:01 |
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| notmyname | kota is on vacation | 21:01 |
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| notmyname | mattoliverau is sick | 21:01 |
| jrichli | o/ | 21:01 |
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| jrichli | mattoliverau: :-( | 21:02 |
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| acoles | here | 21:02 |
| notmyname | sgundur1: ntata: mmotiani: is paul around? | 21:02 |
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| notmyname | pdardeau: there you are :-) | 21:02 |
| pdardeau | o/ | 21:02 |
| notmyname | ok. let's get started | 21:03 |
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| notmyname | welcome, everyone | 21:03 |
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| notmyname | while I do want to get to repconn stuff with nadeem at the end, there's really just one big topic on everyone's mind | 21:04 |
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| notmyname | so let's talk about last week's tc meeting and decision | 21:04 |
| tdasilva | hello, sorry i'm late | 21:04 |
| * nadeem all ears | 21:04 | |
| notmyname | tdasilva: just getting started | 21:04 |
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| notmyname | yeah...I typed out notes, but still trying to figure out how to kick it off :-) | 21:05 |
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| tdasilva | ccccccdkkgthrlbidfffiurjtdchnrirvintejgigdbn | 21:05 |
| notmyname | ok, so summary: last week the TC decided that golang should not be allowed as a way to implement openstack services, in whole or in part | 21:05 |
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| tdasilva | sorry | 21:06 |
| notmyname | #link http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2016/tc.2016-08-02-20.01.log.html | 21:06 |
| notmyname | those are the meeting logs from the TC meeting. | 21:06 |
| notmyname | don't go read them now | 21:06 |
| notmyname | just putting them here for reference | 21:06 |
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| notmyname | so I want to summarize what's going on and how we figure out what's next | 21:07 |
| notmyname | but first... | 21:07 |
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| notmyname | I know the decision has hit several of us quite hard | 21:07 |
| nadeem | true | 21:07 |
| notmyname | and I want to thank you for not going off on twitter or in irc or on the ML and flaming the TC about the decision | 21:08 |
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| notmyname | also, please don't rage quit (yet). it will take a while to figure out what's going on and what the path forward it, so let's work together on that | 21:08 |
| nadeem | is the TC's decision final & binding? | 21:09 |
| notmyname | I've talked to several of you on the phone. several others I haven't been able to talk with yet. (and of course people in the office with me have heard me say a lot ;-) | 21:09 |
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| notmyname | nadeem: it's a good question. let's cover what was said, why, and the options we have | 21:10 |
| notmyname | for what was said, the decision is rather clear: no golang in openstack | 21:10 |
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| notmyname | or actually, no not-python for openstack services | 21:11 |
| notmyname | there are several reasons why tc members voted the way they did | 21:11 |
| notmyname | I've talked to several of them on the phone (or video chat) this week | 21:11 |
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| notmyname | one reason, not shared by everyone, but that does have several people behind it is this... | 21:12 |
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| notmyname | put simply, there is a strong perception that swift has been granted exceptions to do things differently in the past, the swift team is not concerned about cross-project efforts (especially in relation to swift's internal priorities), and swift should not be given another way to be different in openstack | 21:13 |
| notmyname | there is fear that the swift team will not respect the cross-project effort needed to find a way to effectively use golang across all of openstack | 21:14 |
| notmyname | basically, there's a big trust issue | 21:14 |
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| notmyname | the second biggest reason given by TC members comes down to technical justification of if golang is actually needed to solve the problems we have | 21:15 |
| notmyname | I'm leaving these things here without comment, and I don't really think it's good if we try to discuss or debate this in IRC in this meeting | 21:15 |
| notmyname | but I'm definitely available if you want to talk about this | 21:16 |
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| clayg | hi! | 21:16 |
| notmyname | ok, so where does that leave us, as swift? how do we move forward? | 21:16 |
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| notmyname | we basically have 3 options moving forward. none are great, but two of them are pretty terrible | 21:17 |
| notmyname | 1) swift drops golang work | 21:17 |
| notmyname | 2) swift drops openstack | 21:17 |
| torgomatic | I think the TC members should each have to write a paragraph explaining the problem with concurrent disk IO in Python before being allowed to decide if golang is needed for the solution | 21:17 |
| notmyname | 3) swift's proposed golang parts are moved into a different non-openstack repo to be developed/managed separately | 21:17 |
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| torgomatic | how can they decide what's necessary for a solution if they don't understand the problem? | 21:18 |
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| clayg | phew, this is not fun | 21:19 |
| notmyname | so option 1 (dropping golang) means that we reject a proven technically superior solution that solves problems for users and customers | 21:19 |
| clayg | fuck that | 21:19 |
| clayg | sorry | 21:19 |
| notmyname | I don't htink that's a good idea at all | 21:19 |
| notmyname | option 2 (drop openstack) is something that would absolutely devastate our community (ie many current, prolific contributors could no longer work on swift) | 21:20 |
| notmyname | this, too, is a terrible possibility | 21:20 |
| notmyname | so options 1 and 2 are off the table for now | 21:20 |
| clayg | it also sorta gives in to "we're the problem" | 21:21 |
| notmyname | which leaves us with option 3 (split the repo and figure it out) | 21:21 |
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| notmyname | this has high costs, both technically and socially amongst our contributors | 21:21 |
| notmyname | and I'm really worried about that | 21:21 |
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| clayg | notmyname: not to breed false hope, but isn't there an option #4 that at some point there is a change of opinion in the TC and OpenStack does find a way to build services that make up clouds in languages not-python? | 21:22 |
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| notmyname | yes, there is the magic option 4. and while I certainly hope for that, we need to prepare as if it's not there | 21:22 |
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| notmyname | so figuring out what this looks like is what we need to all discuss | 21:23 |
| nadeem | <tdasilva> does "external" development mean completely outside of the openstack namespace? <ttx> tdasilva: no, just outside of TC's reach | 21:23 |
| notmyname | and likely IRC is not the best place to do it | 21:23 |
| nadeem | what does ttx means here? | 21:23 |
| notmyname | nadeem: like swift3. in the openstack/* namespace but not an official project | 21:23 |
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| notmyname | or pyeclib | 21:23 |
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| nadeem | oh ok | 21:23 |
| clayg | FWIW I think this probably not a terrible compromise - no one is happy | 21:24 |
| notmyname | so there are 2 more points I want to cover: current, short-term plan and what about the cross-project work | 21:24 |
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| notmyname | first, here's what I propose we do for now: nothing | 21:24 |
| notmyname | that is, there is no need to split a repo or do anything else even more drastic yet | 21:25 |
| clayg | but I would still like official TC support for we're not doing something to be different - we're doing exactly what you're supposed to do in OpenStack - you wanna do something not python - break up your project and contribute into "projecs" only one of which is under the rule of the TC | 21:25 |
| clayg | or however they would phrase it | 21:25 |
| notmyname | we don't even have the repconn or obj server code ready to replace the python versions yet, so there's no need to split it out | 21:25 |
| notmyname | clayg: right. that question would be great to get an explicit "yes this is what to do" from the TC. one of the reasons I want to wait before doing anything | 21:26 |
| clayg | +1 keep working on the mergable feature branch | 21:26 |
| notmyname | so we should do what we said in austin and san antonio: start with repconn in a golang object-replicator and get the "mergable" version in feature/repconn | 21:26 |
| acoles | clayg: do you mean you'd like the TC to actively approve swift breaking out into separate projects? | 21:26 |
| clayg | acoles: yeah if that's what they want say so | 21:27 |
| acoles | clayg: interesting, avoids any future misunderstanding of our motivations | 21:27 |
| clayg | I mean if that's the compromise - like we're not happy; you're not happy; but this seems like a reasonable compromise to set as the pattern going forward | 21:27 |
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| notmyname | one issue I see with splitting the repo is that, essentially, we reduce the scope of "openstack object storage" to no longer include the part that writes anything to disk. getting explicit TC "yes, that's what we mean" for that would help my own "wait, what?!" sort of reaction to that suggestion | 21:28 |
| rbergeron | fda | 21:29 |
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| nadeem | notmyname what can we do reduce the trust deficit between TC & us? | 21:30 |
| torgomatic | we could move everything but swift-init to a separate repo, then get on with the business of actually fixing real problems | 21:30 |
| notmyname | so beyond the technical side (splitting the repo, scope, etc), that gets us into the social issue | 21:30 |
| notmyname | nadeem: yeah, that :-) | 21:30 |
| torgomatic | (/s, but only mostly) | 21:30 |
| clayg | bah, if you follow it through ad absurdum it doesn't make sense, try not look at the broader picture | 21:30 |
| notmyname | this will definitely be a topic that I schedule for the summit. maybe more than one | 21:31 |
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| notmyname | but the basic trust deficit comes down to a few things. first, swift isn't using some of the libraries that other projects are. and second, swift hasn't been the group to change those or other common tools/processes to make them better for everyone including swift | 21:32 |
| pdardeau | did the question of trust and technical necessity ever come up during first proposal? | 21:32 |
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| notmyname | pdardeau: TBH we all kinda got it wrong on the first proposal. we thought the TC was looking for a process to work through, but the decision was that the TC doesn't really agree that golang should be a thing or that swift should be the ones to propose it | 21:33 |
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| clayg | notmyname: ttx was looking for a process - and he was just in a minority - that includes like jbryce | 21:33 |
| notmyname | clayg: true | 21:33 |
| clayg | I think it was great that he brought it to a head - he was like "wait, do we even agree on the *gaol* here!?" | 21:34 |
| clayg | I think a lot of people were surprised, and more thought it wasn't settled | 21:34 |
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| notmyname | looking forward, to help rebuild trust with the TC (rebuild? build in the first place?) we will need to revisit our usage of oslo libraries (config and logging specifically) and some other common things like requirements and release notes | 21:34 |
| clayg | but.... community - YEAH! Let's help! WHOOOO | 21:35 |
| acoles | it's weird to think that if another project had proposed golang then the decision might have swung the other way | 21:35 |
| clayg | you barely see the scars of pbr these days - i'm all up on setuptools v3405877777 everything is awesome! | 21:35 |
| pdardeau | if the reasons to keep them out in the past were valid, wouldn't they still be valid (except maybe for the higher social cost)? | 21:36 |
| notmyname | pdardeau: to keep what out of what? oslo libs out of swift? golang out of openstack? | 21:36 |
| pdardeau | notmyname: sorry, oslo logging and config out of swift | 21:36 |
| clayg | pdardeau: like sometimes we didn't use things because it was the path of least resistence and we had different priorities | 21:37 |
| tdasilva | i think we also need to be careful to not jump into a us vs them, we are right and they are wrong mentality. If the TC said there are trust issues, we should at least try to understand better what is meant by it | 21:37 |
| clayg | like oslo.confg | 21:37 |
| clayg | we *can't* use it | 21:37 |
| clayg | without changing it | 21:37 |
| notmyname | tdasilva: yes | 21:37 |
| clayg | so we don't use it | 21:37 |
| acoles | tdasilva: agree | 21:37 |
| clayg | instead of changing it, and using it | 21:37 |
| clayg | but like the only reason we do that is priorities | 21:37 |
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| clayg | and it's our prioritization that's biting us more than anything i think | 21:37 |
| pdardeau | clayg: thx for clarification | 21:38 |
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| notmyname | so it's about chaning our own priorities to update eg oslo.config and then integrating that before doing more swift-specific things | 21:38 |
| clayg | how can we not prioritize using oslo.config? *everyone* uses it. Parts are even like *technically* use*FUL* | 21:38 |
| clayg | so pony up, do the work | 21:38 |
| clayg | that's my opinion anyway - everything is awesome! | 21:38 |
| clayg | no do all the things! | 21:38 |
| clayg | sleep is overrated! | 21:38 |
| notmyname | so right. it comes down to prioritiaztion, and what several TC members really want to see is that the swift team work on things that benefit cross-project efforts | 21:39 |
| timburke | in our defense, some of us *have* tried to fix things for the larger community, but all of openstack has the same slow-review-times issue we have. see https://review.openstack.org/#/c/240090/, https://review.openstack.org/#/c/233245/, https://review.openstack.org/#/c/276517/ for some examples | 21:40 |
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| acoles | notmyname: are there specific work items they have in mind? | 21:40 |
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| clayg | timburke: nice - i was hoping those were all yours :D | 21:40 |
| notmyname | acoles: I'll avoid yet again linking in the logged meeting channel the doc that details the swift team's failing and my personal responsibility there ;-) | 21:40 |
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| timburke | clayg: oh, there are more... ;-) | 21:41 |
| notmyname | but yeah, it's requirements, reno, logging, config, oslo.messaging, cross-project liasons (or lack thereof) | 21:42 |
| notmyname | that's the starting list | 21:42 |
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| tdasilva | acoles, notmyname: i don't think it is so much about work items as just being "part of the community" which means yes, doing cross-project work, but also participating in the conversation | 21:42 |
| notmyname | some are goign to be easier to address than others | 21:42 |
| notmyname | tdasilva: right, exactly | 21:42 |
| pdardeau | is py3 one of them also? | 21:42 |
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| timburke | if it isn't yet, it probably will be in the next six months | 21:43 |
| notmyname | pdardeau: that will come up once the new TC-set cross-project goals gets landed | 21:43 |
| notmyname | for example, for requirements, we're dinged on not landing the bot patch proposals | 21:43 |
| clayg | pdardeau: it probably doesn't help us that we prioritize other things over python | 21:43 |
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| notmyname | but it's not that we dont' land them, it's that the swift team has ignored the problem and not contributed to the openstack-requirements repo to improve the version matching | 21:44 |
| clayg | notmyname: let's land 'em!!! I'll package everything!!! srly, nothing else to do this week. LOVE me some packaging | 21:44 |
| notmyname | that's a specific example | 21:44 |
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| notmyname | in summary, there are some significant social and technical issues to work through in the coming months | 21:45 |
| notmyname | what other questions do you have? | 21:45 |
| nadeem | notmyname : do we have a list of TC cross-project goal documented somewhere to look at? | 21:45 |
| nadeem | *goals | 21:45 |
| tdasilva | the ML????? | 21:45 |
| notmyname | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/349068/ and http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2016-July/100472.html | 21:45 |
| nadeem | cool | 21:46 |
| clayg | tdasilva: heh, yeah it's sort of BD right now | 21:46 |
| timburke | i'm still very much interested in finding out how well it works for people to contribute to repos under https://github.com/openstack/* that aren't officially OpenStack projects | 21:46 |
| clayg | tdasilva: but that's very swift of us right? "oh the ML, yeah I mostly ignore that; too painful" | 21:46 |
| timburke | does that work well for everyone's employers? like, would their legal depts. be ok with it? can you contribute today to pyeclib and swift3, and if so did it require some separate approval process? | 21:46 |
| timburke | answers might be better as PMs to notmyname, but it's something people should think about | 21:46 |
| tdasilva | clayg: yep :( | 21:46 |
| notmyname | yes, please think about it, and please tell me any issues you may have | 21:47 |
| notmyname | I have already heard from one person for whom it might be an issue | 21:47 |
| notmyname | and we must understand the cost here | 21:47 |
| notmyname | timburke: I'll check with your employer for you ;-) | 21:47 |
| timburke | yay! less work for me! | 21:48 |
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| notmyname | any other questions about all this? | 21:48 |
| notmyname | I'm sorry that there aren't any good answers right now. if you're feeling a little confused, you're in good company with everyone else | 21:49 |
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| nadeem | what is our action plan going forward? | 21:50 |
| notmyname | nadeem: keep doing feature/repconn, don't do anything drastic until we actually have to (eg when we have to release) | 21:50 |
| nadeem | okay | 21:50 |
| notmyname | nadeem: what's going on with feature/repconn right now? | 21:51 |
| notmyname | you've been moving code from the obj server to the object replicator, right? | 21:51 |
| nadeem | true. That is in progress. | 21:52 |
| notmyname | (also, note that the "what's next" also includes all the other "normal" stuff going on in swift that still needs to be done) | 21:52 |
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| notmyname | nadeem: how is it going? when can we see patches? how can we help? | 21:52 |
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| nadeem | It is going well. Hopefully I could have a patch ready by next week | 21:53 |
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| notmyname | good. looking forward to it :-) | 21:54 |
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| notmyname | in a couple of weeks I'll be going to NYC to the operators meetup and to the openstack east event. I hope to be able to talk face-to-face with several tc people there | 21:54 |
| clayg | notmyname: good luck, don't get kicked out | 21:56 |
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| nadeem | :D | 21:56 |
| acoles | notmyname: if we are going to make progress on cross-project stuff then some of the "normal" stuff has to slip, or we hire more elves ;) | 21:56 |
| notmyname | acoles: yep :-( | 21:56 |
| clayg | i really don't have a good quip here :'( | 21:57 |
| acoles | notmyname: it would be good to coordinate efforts there i.e. if anyone is able to start on one of those pieces, then communicate to rest of us so we don't suplicate effort | 21:57 |
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| notmyname | good idea. and tracking these in a more formal way and having them as meeting agenda items probably also would really help | 21:58 |
| acoles | clayg: "Wanted: Elves"? :P | 21:58 |
| nadeem | notmyname agree | 21:58 |
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| acoles | notmyname: wishlist bugs maybe? | 21:58 |
| tdasilva | acoles: you mind find them in the wood of Yosemite ;) | 21:58 |
| notmyname | acoles: not joking, I'll look into whatever is the cross-project OpenStack Way (tm) to do it | 21:59 |
| clayg | acoles: I was hoping something more like "no we can totally do everything this won't be a distraction at all!" | 21:59 |
| notmyname | we're at full time | 21:59 |
| acoles | clayg: that is of course a given ! its just typey-typey except matt is sick :/ | 21:59 |
| clayg | tdasilva: OMG - i spent some time in the park week before last - it was *amazing* - North America is beautiful | 21:59 |
| acoles | tdasilva: I'll take a net :) | 21:59 |
| onovy | pls pls, anyone, after almost 1 year open review? https://review.openstack.org/#/c/238799/ | 22:00 |
| notmyname | thank you for your work on swift. you've written something that is used in production every day around the world at massive scale. thank you for your work | 22:00 |
| notmyname | #endmeeting | 22:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 22:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Aug 10 22:00:10 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 22:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/swift/2016/swift.2016-08-10-21.00.html | 22:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/swift/2016/swift.2016-08-10-21.00.txt | 22:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/swift/2016/swift.2016-08-10-21.00.log.html | 22:00 |
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| onovy | clayg: maybe you can look to it again? you already given +2 before | 22:00 |
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