Friday, 2016-06-10

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dhellmann#startmeeting releaseteam14:02
openstackMeeting started Fri Jun 10 14:02:43 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is dhellmann. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.14:02
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.14:02
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: releaseteam)"14:02
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'releaseteam'14:02
ttxo/14:02
dhellmanncourtesy ping: ttx, dims, lifeless, tonyb, stevemar, fungi14:02
dhellmannIf you would like for me to add you to the courtesy ping please say so14:02
dhellmannour agenda is at https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/newton-relmgt-tracking14:02
dhellmannthis week is R-1714:02
dimso/14:03
dhellmann#topic tag merging issue14:03
*** openstack changes topic to "tag merging issue (Meeting topic: releaseteam)"14:03
dhellmann#link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2016-June/096895.html14:03
dhellmannttx, based on your email it seems like the consensus is that it's OK to stop merging tags, so unless anyone disagrees I'll work on that patch to project-config14:03
ttxyeah... I tried to remember the initial reason14:04
dhellmannI think what you described was similar to what fungi remembered when we talked about it the other day in -infra14:04
dhellmannbasically, it looks weird to humans who are expecting to see all versions when asking for tags along master14:05
ttxI /think/ it's what I described (in which case it is not current anymore), so wanted to throw it out there and see if anybody screamed14:05
fungisorry, around now. had to step away for a bit14:05
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dhellmannfungi : np, thanks for making the time14:06
dhellmannso should I wait a few days before making any changes?14:06
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ttxdhellmann: main issue with the solution is that we have to wait for the n+1 commit to tag14:06
ttxwe can trigger a n+1 commit but we still have delay while it gets accepted (much like setup.cfg)14:06
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dhellmannwhy do we need to wait?14:07
ttxunless we can somehow automate it, but it sounds like a complex trigger14:07
ttxyou need a commit that is only on master, right, so a new one after branch point14:07
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ttxon which to apply the a0 tag on14:08
dhellmannyeah, it means after creating the stable branch, some time in the next day or so we need to add a tag. I don't see that as too big of a deal if we miss a few patches, do you?14:08
fungiyeah, otherwise git will show it on the old branch too, which you don't want14:08
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fungiso need at least one commit's divergence14:09
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ttxit's still painful to track14:09
dhellmannyes, true14:09
ttxsome slow teams will take forever14:09
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dhellmannwe already ask them to tag before branching. we could ask them to have that patch in place already.14:09
ttxso ideally we would have some automation to do it for us14:09
dhellmanneven if it's just a whitespace change to the readme or something14:09
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dhellmannIOW, have both patches in place before creating the branch, and don't branch from HEAD14:10
ttxthe way I saw it, this is a technical tag that would not go through openstack/releases14:10
ttxi.e. no need for a change by release liaison and all14:10
dhellmannsure, that's fine14:10
dhellmannI meant the patch in the project tree14:10
ttxit still means tracking who did it and who did not14:11
dhellmanntrue. we'll need to work that out. what we have now is producing erroneous release notes, so I really do think we need to change something.14:11
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ttxWe alsmot need a zuul trigger that would detect first-patch-after-stable-branching and trigger a tag job14:12
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ttxdhellmann: sure, I'm not saying we shouldn't do it. Just saying it's inconvenient and we should not overlook that14:12
fungicould just run a post job on every commit and have it no-op if it's not the first commit on master after the branch point14:12
dhellmannthat does sound challenging. it would be relatively straightforward to add a validation check for rc1 tags to say they can't be from HEAD.14:12
fungithough that would no-op 10k times for every positive14:13
dhellmannyeah14:13
ttxdhellmann: ah, so force people to submit another patch before they can even have their rc114:13
dhellmannttx: right14:13
dhellmannwe don't care what that patch is, we don't care if they eventually back-port it, etc. but it has to be present.14:14
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ttxdhellmann: that sounds a bit tricky to communicate but we can give it a try. No better answer anyway14:14
dhellmannwe can tag that first, then tag rc1, then branch14:14
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dhellmannyeah, it will take some documentation (more on that later)14:14
ttx(for reference, that is what we did for setup.cfg)14:15
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dhellmannyeah, this will be a little looser, since the patch can be anything at all14:15
ttxHistorically we asked them to bump setup.cfg, and I would branch stable/* from previous commit14:15
ttxso setup.cfg merging was the signoff for stable branching14:15
ttxIt was slightly more explicit and integrated than asking them to coordinate RC1 tag and extra commit14:16
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ttxbut not impossible to explain14:16
fungithough i thought that was recognized as a sort of fragile inconvenience in the old process14:16
dhellmannhaving to synchronize this at all is annoying and fragile :-)14:16
fungiso would be unfortunate if we're having to reintroduce a similar workflow14:16
ttxwell, the idea was to remove the core team from the equation14:16
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dhellmannanother option is for us to stop merging tags and stop fretting about master appearing to be older than the stable branch.14:16
ttxso that you could do everything with release team14:16
ttxand asking for another patch to land on master before you tag RC1 means putting the core review team in the loop again14:17
fungii'm personally fine with just status quo and stop the merge job, but someone will have to field all the complaints14:17
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dhellmannwe could also just wait until the week after the release and tag whatever head is at that point14:17
dhellmannassuming it's not still their rc114:18
ttxdhellmann: we could have a script that we run weekly to catch the missing tags14:18
dhellmann"list all cycle-with-milestone repos, get head of master, if there are no tags on that patch tag it a1"14:18
ttxi.e. detect first-patch-after-stable-branching and see if it has tag14:18
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dhellmannok, I sort of like that14:19
fungiespecially from continuous deployers who are now annoyed that their packages from master are "older" versions than the latest release14:19
ttxright14:19
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dhellmannso a periodic job?14:19
fungisorry, lag14:19
ttxwe run it until it says everything is covered14:19
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dhellmannrun by hand?14:19
ttxdoesn't have to be daily, can be weekly at release meeting14:19
ttxyeah14:19
ttxthat way they are not in the critical path14:19
dhellmannok, that's better than coordinating with the core teams14:19
ttxand at most one week worth of versioning confusion14:20
dhellmannttx: ok, do you want to think about how to write that script?14:20
ttxand if for some reason it takes forever we can then push a change for a whitespace change14:20
ttxdhellmann: that would be a good exercise for me yes14:20
fungii think we can accommodate just about any workflow you want via automation, as long as you can settle on which is the least annoying path for the release team from a human interaction and tracking perspective14:20
ttxfungi: we could run that as a daily job, although that would mean unsigned tags14:21
ttxor at least machine-signed tags14:21
dhellmannif machine signed tags are good enough for the release, they should be good enough for this14:21
ttxanyway, we have a path forward. Let's do it manually first14:21
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dhellmannsounds good14:21
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* ttx adds notes to meeting14:22
dhellmann#agreed ttx to work on a script to identify "first commit after stable branch" and apply a tag14:22
dhellmann#topic automation update (fungi)14:22
*** openstack changes topic to "automation update (fungi) (Meeting topic: releaseteam)"14:22
fungiyeah, machine-signed14:22
dhellmannso speaking of machine-signed tags... :-)14:23
fungino major update, pushing the change today that adds teh signing node14:23
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ttxdhellmann: oh, and would be great if somewhow that tag did not trigger post-tag jobs14:23
ttxlike announcements14:23
fungistill have a little more work to do on the piece which handles key deployment to the machine14:23
dhellmannttx: I think we already don't announce pre-releases but we can make sure of that14:23
ttxoh right14:23
* ttx shuts up now14:23
fungicould certainly adjust the announcements job to not announce alphas14:23
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fungieven if you wanted beta milestone tags announced14:24
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dhellmannfungi : so it sounds like we're getting close to ready to start moving some of the release tools scripts into project-config?14:24
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fungianyway, that was more or less my update. should have more in place later today14:24
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dhellmanngreat, thank you14:24
fungiand yes, we could in theory move those scripts at any point now14:24
dhellmannok, I have some other things that are more urgent, but that's getting close to the top of my priority list now14:25
dhellmannmoving on...14:25
dhellmann#topic email notification for release pipeline job failures14:25
*** openstack changes topic to "email notification for release pipeline job failures (Meeting topic: releaseteam)"14:25
fungigood. the release automation work has mostly bubbled to the surface for my priorities at this point in the cycle as well14:25
dhellmann#undo14:25
openstackRemoving item from minutes: <ircmeeting.items.Topic object at 0x7fe23758dc90>14:25
dhellmannok, I've been holding off moving the scripts until we were ready to actually define a job and be able to run it, but I'll reconsider that (we can run the release scripts from project-config by hand just as easily as from release-tools)14:26
dhellmann#topic email notification for release pipeline job failures14:26
*** openstack changes topic to "email notification for release pipeline job failures (Meeting topic: releaseteam)"14:26
* fungi notes that #undo of a #topic doesn't roll back the irc channel topic14:26
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dhellmannwe've had a little trouble keeping up with what release jobs have failed, relying on the project teams or consumers to notice that a package wasn't built and then debugging the failure14:27
dhellmannyesterday jeblair pointed out that it's possible to have zuul send us email when a job fails14:27
dhellmannor at least when something in a given pipeline fails, I'm not clear on all of the filtering abilities yet14:27
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fungiyeah, i think it's just all failures, all successes, or both14:28
dhellmannmy plan is to create a new mailing list, and set that list up to receive notifications when any tag, release, release-post, etc. jobs fail14:28
fungiat the moment14:28
funginote there will be a ton of failures since a lot of non-reno'd projects seem to have added the release announcements jobs14:28
dhellmannI think either "all" or "all failures" would be fine14:28
dhellmannoh, probably because I added the announcement job to the template14:29
dhellmannnot having reno shouldn't be causing that to fail14:29
jeblair'all failures in pipeline' is what we have right now14:29
ttxI think that's fine14:29
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dhellmannyeah, that's way better than "only when someone complains" :-)14:29
fungioh, i assumed it was lack of release notes, but regardless i notice lots of "failing" release announcement jobs and they're for stuff that isn't release-managed14:29
dhellmannfungi : it's probably because they don't have URLs in their README for their bug tracker, etc.14:29
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ttxdhellmann: although we'd likely only cover release pipelines, not the post one14:30
dhellmannyeah, I'll have to look at what's in each pipeline14:30
dhellmannI'll include everyone on the patches to do that14:30
dhellmanndoes anyone want to suggest a name for the mailing list?14:30
ttxrelease-job-failures ?14:30
fungiso, yeah, propose a change to openstack-infra/system-config for the modules/openstack_project/manifests/lists.pp file to add the ml you want to use for this once you bikeshed a name14:30
ttxThe most interesting mailing list you'll ever subscribe to !14:31
dhellmannttx: works for me14:31
dhellmannfungi : yep, watch for that today or monday :-)14:31
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ttx13-interesting-ways-release-jobs-can-fail@lists.openstack.org14:31
fungian alternative might be to get these reporting on the health dashboard (and so also available via rss). i don't know what's involved to make that happen though14:32
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dhellmannfungi : I'd like that, too. I think we need to set up the sql integration (I can't remember the name of that plugin thing mtreinish built). I like the push notification aspect of email, though14:33
* dhellmann imagines a bat signal plugin for zuul14:33
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mtreinishdhellmann: subunit2sql. Fwiw, it's really easy to add subunit generation to jobs14:34
dhellmannmtreinish : thanks, I was thinking testr2sql and knew that was wrong14:34
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mtreinishdhellmann: AJaeger and I did it pretty quickly for the translation jobs14:34
dhellmannmtreinish : we don't have any "tests" in these jobs, and they don't use subunit.14:34
dhellmannah, ok, so maybe that's not a requirement14:34
fungidhellmann: all you'd need is a rpi2 with a cron job and a blinkenlicht14:34
dhellmannfungi : so now I have a project for this spare rpi2 sitting on my shelf14:35
mtreinishdhellmann: right, but there is a cli utility I wrote you give it a name and a couple timestamps and a status and it'll generate a subunit file for you14:35
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dhellmannmtreinish : oh, cool. are there docs for that somewhere?14:35
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dhellmannwe talked about this a while back when I didn't have a lot of time to dig into it14:35
mtreinishdhellmann: err, I don't think I actually wrote docs for generate subunit (I'll fix that today) but the script is here: http://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack/os-testr/tree/os_testr/generate_subunit.py14:36
dhellmannmtreinish : ok, I'll take a look at adding that, too14:37
dhellmannthanks!14:37
mtreinishdhellmann: and here is how the translation jobs call it: http://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack-infra/project-config/tree/jenkins/scripts/common_translation_update.sh#n6414:37
dhellmannoh, good, an example will help a lot14:37
dhellmanncool, so I'll put that on our list, too14:38
dhellmannwe have 2 more topics to cover today, let's move on14:38
dhellmann#topic reno changes for osc project14:38
*** openstack changes topic to "reno changes for osc project (Meeting topic: releaseteam)"14:38
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dhellmanndtroyer wants to have version-specific pages instead of release series pages, which is possible now, but it would be easier with a latest-release field similar to earliest-release14:38
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dhellmannI'd like to have someone else know the reno code a bit, so does anyone want to take a stab at adding that?14:39
ttxdepends how fast you need it14:39
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dhellmannthere's no rush14:39
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dhellmannhe has a list of versions now, and is ok with manually updating that, but over the long term this will make it easier14:40
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ttxI can add it to my list14:41
dhellmanncool, thanks14:41
ttxbut that's the sort of things that tend to slip from my TODO forever, so at some point we should do a timecheck :)14:41
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ttxand someone with more bandwidth could pick it up14:41
dhellmannwill do. I'll add it to the tracking docs so we don't  lose it14:41
dhellmann#topic release manager's manual14:42
*** openstack changes topic to "release manager's manual (Meeting topic: releaseteam)"14:42
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ttxdhellmann: ok, and if you could describe the required feature in a bit more detail (on the etherpad or on an email to me) that would be awesome14:42
dhellmannttx: of course, I'll write that up in the etherpad14:42
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dhellmannI'd like to get started building the release manual. Where should we put it and where should we publish it?14:43
ttxdefine scope again. It's for release managers ?14:43
ttxor liaisons ? Or both14:43
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dhellmannmaybe a bit of both? basically, all of the procedural instructions we have14:44
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dhellmannsome of what's in the releases/README.rst might move there14:44
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ttxMy take is, instructions for project teams (release liaisons) should live in the pTG14:45
dhellmannbut we'd also have things like the processes for handling each milestone, the process making the stable branches, etc.14:45
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ttxwhile instructions for release managers should live somewhere specific14:45
fungireleases repo readme?14:45
dhellmannthat makes sense14:45
dhellmannthe split does14:46
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dhellmannyeah, the readme may be a good place for release manager instructions. it's simpler than publishing a whole new manual if we're going to split the other bits out to the ptg14:46
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ttxFor the team documentation, most other OpenStack project teams leverage an existing repo, or the wiki14:46
* fungi shudders at mention of the wiki14:47
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dhellmannI don't want to use the wiki for this.14:47
dhellmannwe already have a todo to clean up our wiki presence14:47
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dhellmannI'll start working on patches for the existing documents, and if we decide something doesn't fit in either we can revisit14:47
ttxso if we push it to openstack/releases, would we publish in some subdirectory there ?14:47
ttxor somewhere else completely ? Or not publish ?14:48
dhellmannif it's in the readme, I don't think we need to publish it14:48
ttxok14:48
fungi"publish" it the same way http://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack/requirements/tree/README.rst is "published"14:48
dhellmannyeah14:48
fungii find that entirely readable14:49
ttxI would probably separate README - for people submitting changes to that repo or trying to figure out what it is) from process14:49
dhellmannok, a separate rst file works, too14:49
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dhellmannI think a lot of what I have in mind can be written in a way that is usable both to the liaisons and release team, so that can go into the ptg14:49
ttxSo keep README.rst for "what is this about ?" and basic info on file structure14:49
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dhellmanneven if it's just "this is what will happen, liaisons don't need to do it" it's still informative14:50
dhellmann"please pay attention to the man behind the curtain"14:50
ttxthen some "Process.rst" for out team doc14:50
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ttxYeah, I just don't want to overload the PTG too much14:51
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dhellmannok, I'll start by assembling a list of topics to document and we can see what goes where14:51
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ttxCurrently the PTG rewrite points to the README.rst14:51
ttxhttps://review.openstack.org/#/c/324540/14:51
ttx"See the `README file in that repository`_ for more details."14:52
* dhellmann adds that to his review queue14:52
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ttxagreed / mix of README.rst, OtherFile.rst and PTG should do it14:53
dhellmannspeaking of reviews14:53
dhellmann#topic priority reviews14:53
*** openstack changes topic to "priority reviews (Meeting topic: releaseteam)"14:53
ttxdepending on level of external exposure wanted14:53
dhellmann#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/324540/ - updates the PTG14:53
dhellmann#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/322863/ - proposed release ACL dance model14:53
ttxAnything in releases changes that I should pay immediate attention to ? Been in catchup mode today14:54
dhellmannttx: yeah, my original goal was to have enough instructions written down that someone could use them to train to do the release work. it changes enough that it might not be possible, though14:54
dhellmannttx: you may want to look at the patches we pushed through yesterday to add the "team" field to deliverable files instead of relying on the governance repo definition of teams14:54
dhellmannthose were turning into rebase issues, so we pushed them in with the agreement that we'd change things as needed14:55
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ttxack, will post-review them :)14:55
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dhellmannotherwise the queue is empty so just the 2 items you listed14:55
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dhellmannI think we're going to need to do something similar to the team field for other changes. for instance, deliverable definitions change over time, and their release models and tags change14:56
dhellmannwe might need to turn off some of the validation we have for those things, or modify it to look at local tag definitions and only fall back to the governance repo14:56
dhellmannotherwise we'll have trouble releasing stable versions of things if the governance repo has changed14:57
dhellmann#topic open discussion14:57
*** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: releaseteam)"14:57
dhellmannis there anything else we need to mention?14:57
dhellmannI have jury duty next week, so I don't know what my schedule is going to be like yet14:58
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dhellmannok, that's time14:59
dhellmannthanks everyone!14:59
ttxack14:59
dhellmann#endmeeting14:59
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"14:59
openstackMeeting ended Fri Jun 10 14:59:48 2016 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)14:59
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/releaseteam/2016/releaseteam.2016-06-10-14.02.html14:59
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/releaseteam/2016/releaseteam.2016-06-10-14.02.txt14:59
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/releaseteam/2016/releaseteam.2016-06-10-14.02.log.html14:59
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Neko__Huh. Expected at least a little bit of talk in the room21:15
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anteayaNeko__: this is a meeting channel and it is Friday21:20
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anteayaNeko__: if you want chat I suggest #openstack-dev or one of the project channels21:20
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Neko__I just wanted to see what people would be talking about, maybe I'll look into that later21:21
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anteayaNeko__: like I said this is a meeting channel, if you want to understand what folks are talking about I suggest #openstack-dev or one of the project channels21:22
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Neko__Alright thanks21:24
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