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| anteaya | #startmeeting third-party | 08:00 |
|---|---|---|
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Nov 17 08:00:26 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is anteaya. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 08:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 08:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: third-party)" | 08:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'third_party' | 08:00 |
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| anteaya | hello | 08:01 |
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| anteaya | #endmeeting | 08:33 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 08:33 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Nov 17 08:33:02 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 08:33 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/third_party/2015/third_party.2015-11-17-08.00.html | 08:33 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/third_party/2015/third_party.2015-11-17-08.00.txt | 08:33 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/third_party/2015/third_party.2015-11-17-08.00.log.html | 08:33 |
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| alex_xu | #startmeeting nova api | 12:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Nov 17 12:00:02 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is alex_xu. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 12:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 12:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: nova api)" | 12:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'nova_api' | 12:00 |
| alex_xu | who is here today? | 12:00 |
| markus_z | o/ | 12:00 |
| alex_xu | markus_z: welcome | 12:00 |
| jichen | o/ | 12:00 |
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| alex_xu | emm...so quiet today | 12:01 |
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| alex_xu | let's wait few more mins if more people join in | 12:01 |
| oomichi | hi | 12:01 |
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| markus_z | It's early for the US folks I guess | 12:02 |
| Kevin_Zheng | ih | 12:02 |
| Kevin_Zheng | hi | 12:02 |
| alex_xu | yea, pretty early | 12:02 |
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| alex_xu | jichen: oomichi Kevin_Zheng hi | 12:02 |
| * johnthetubaguy is lurking | 12:02 | |
| alex_xu | ok, let's start the meeting | 12:02 |
| alex_xu | I changed a little for agenda, it's only talk about priority items, for the low priority only bring up when there is something important update | 12:03 |
| alex_xu | #topic actions from last meeting | 12:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "actions from last meeting (Meeting topic: nova api)" | 12:03 | |
| alex_xu | alex_xu update the PoC to show more example | 12:03 |
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| alex_xu | #link https://review.openstack.org/233446 | 12:03 |
| alex_xu | I have update it and with new way. it is use swagger spec in the nova code. And this way can instead of wsgi decorators. | 12:04 |
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| alex_xu | Then the doc and definition of api in single place(in swagger spec), that is more readable | 12:04 |
| oomichi | alex_xu: thanks for doing that, nice direction for me | 12:04 |
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| alex_xu | appreciate people can take a look at and give feed back | 12:05 |
| alex_xu | oomichi: thanks :) | 12:05 |
| alex_xu | I will continue update and give more detail, still have a lot of TODOs | 12:05 |
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| oomichi | alex_xu: how about making the scope small as the first step? | 12:06 |
| johnthetubaguy | alex_xu: can I check about the swagger? | 12:06 |
| oomichi | alex_xu: it is difficult to do all thing at a single step | 12:06 |
| johnthetubaguy | alex_xu: its auto generated, but then checked into our repo? | 12:06 |
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| johnthetubaguy | alex_xu: oh wait, I see you reference the external swagger doc for each API... hmm | 12:07 |
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| alex_xu | oomichi: I will separated the patch when most ideas figure out | 12:07 |
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| oomichi | alex_xu: I see, cool | 12:07 |
| alex_xu | johnthetubaguy: sorry, I didn't quite get you, what means external swagger doc? | 12:08 |
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| oomichi | johnthetubaguy: yeah, right. on PoC, applying the swagger doc to the code instead of auto-generating swagger doc | 12:09 |
| alex_xu | johnthetubaguy: you mean validated the generated swagger, or you mean how to read the swagger easily? | 12:09 |
| oomichi | johnthetubaguy: from the code | 12:09 |
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| johnthetubaguy | yeah, I was kinda expecting the swagger to get auto generated from the code | 12:09 |
| oomichi | johnthetubaguy: that is one way, and the other is to apply swagger doc/spec to the code | 12:10 |
| alex_xu | johnthetubaguy: the PoC use swagger to describe the API directly | 12:10 |
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| alex_xu | instead of those wsgi decorator like wsgi.response(204), expected_errors((400, 403, 404)), .... | 12:11 |
| johnthetubaguy | yeah, not sure thats what I was expecting | 12:11 |
| oomichi | on http://swagger.io/getting-started/ , there are two ways to apply swagger | 12:11 |
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| alex_xu | johnthetubaguy: yea, it is another try, currently the python looks like more clear. and document and definition in the single place | 12:12 |
| oomichi | on current PoC, that seems top-down approach | 12:12 |
| johnthetubaguy | so, this feels very error prone, honestly | 12:12 |
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| oomichi | the first PoC is maybe johnthetubaguy expectation. | 12:13 |
| oomichi | but the code was dirty due to a lot of decorators | 12:13 |
| oomichi | on each api implementation | 12:14 |
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| alex_xu | there are some tools use similar way in the flask, like https://github.com/rochacbruno/flasgger | 12:15 |
| alex_xu | the only different is they write swagger in the doc string | 12:15 |
| oomichi | alex_xu: that seems big difference for nova's implementation ;) | 12:16 |
| alex_xu | so anyway continue discussion on the gerrit, give people more time to think about it? | 12:17 |
| johnthetubaguy | yeah, I think so | 12:17 |
| oomichi | alex_xu: nice for doing that | 12:17 |
| alex_xu | oomichi: yea, looks like we instead of some infra tools we build before | 12:17 |
| alex_xu | so let's move on | 12:18 |
| alex_xu | alex_xu contact the doc team about swagger stuff | 12:18 |
| sdague | I agree with johnthetubaguy, this seems really error prone | 12:18 |
| alex_xu | I didn't finish this action....so give another action I will do it in this week | 12:19 |
| alex_xu | #action alex_xu contact the doc team about swagger stuff | 12:19 |
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| alex_xu | sdague: so you still like use doc string? | 12:19 |
| sdague | yeh, at least that's near the code | 12:19 |
| johnthetubaguy | honestly I preferred the decorators to hand creating the swagger | 12:20 |
| johnthetubaguy | but doc string would be event better, I think | 12:20 |
| sdague | honestly, the https://github.com/rochacbruno/flasgger stuff does look interesting. To the point that a N conversion of the wsgi stack to flask might be worth while | 12:20 |
| alex_xu | sdague: actually we need create a format for doc string, that looks like we create another 'swagger' spec | 12:20 |
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| sdague | honestly, the yaml that flasgger uses looks like what I'd expect | 12:21 |
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| johnthetubaguy | sdague: using the same yaml as flasgger looks like a good idea | 12:21 |
| alex_xu | sdague: but feel that is error prone, the decorator and doc string may talk about different thing | 12:21 |
| sdague | alex_xu: but at least it's right there on the method | 12:22 |
| oomichi | yeah, that is diferent from current implementation | 12:22 |
| sdague | if these things are in another part of the tree, they are going to be wrong | 12:22 |
| sdague | we saw that with the wadl | 12:22 |
| johnthetubaguy | alex_xu: we can test they are in sync, and at least they are close to each other | 12:22 |
| oomichi | it would be nice to do that after migrating to flask | 12:22 |
| johnthetubaguy | yeah, I think wadl tought us we just ignore it | 12:22 |
| alex_xu | johnthetubaguy: ok | 12:23 |
| johnthetubaguy | although I would rather we didn't add flask into the mix here, unless we really need it | 12:23 |
| sdague | yeh, that's fine | 12:23 |
| oomichi | ok | 12:23 |
| sdague | I think we can coopt their format though | 12:23 |
| sdague | anyway, I think the experiments so far have kind of shown there are some hard issues to work through here, which means I think we should put this down for the rest of the cycle, otherwise we're going to be distracted by this and not touch the docs | 12:24 |
| alex_xu | sdague: you mean focus on current wadl api reference/ | 12:25 |
| alex_xu | s/\//?/.... | 12:25 |
| sdague | no, I mean focus on the text of the API | 12:26 |
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| oomichi | sdague: that is concept thing? | 12:26 |
| johnthetubaguy | I guess focus on the current wadl text and and the concept guide? | 12:26 |
| sdague | honestly, the concept guide, examples in documentation on how to use the API are going to go much further for people than any formal specification | 12:27 |
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| johnthetubaguy | yeah, the concept guide is a big blocker | 12:27 |
| johnthetubaguy | but the compete API reference not actually talking about some of the searching/filtering stuff, is a worry too | 12:27 |
| sdague | sure | 12:27 |
| alex_xu | the problem wadl isn't support microversion | 12:28 |
| oomichi | can we get volunteers for making the concept guide better already ? | 12:28 |
| johnthetubaguy | right, I think we should get v2.1 correct to start with | 12:29 |
| jichen | yeah, current wadl some talked about latest version while some talked about v2.1 | 12:29 |
| alex_xu | jichen: oops, that is bad | 12:29 |
| alex_xu | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/nova-v2.1-api-doc | 12:29 |
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| johnthetubaguy | getting a solid v2.1, is the most important bit | 12:30 |
| alex_xu | oomichi: ^ we use this track the work | 12:30 |
| sdague | the only reason we use wadl is to generate this - http://developer.openstack.org/api-ref-compute-v2.1.html | 12:30 |
| jichen | e.g http://developer.openstack.org/api-ref-compute-v2.1.html#keypairs-v2.1 | 12:30 |
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| oomichi | alex_xu: thanks :) | 12:30 |
| johnthetubaguy | sdague: yeah, I basically mean update that doc | 12:30 |
| alex_xu | let me jump the topic | 12:30 |
| sdague | however, we could just *edit* that html installed | 12:30 |
| alex_xu | #topic API Documentation | 12:30 |
| sdague | instead | 12:30 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "API Documentation (Meeting topic: nova api)" | 12:30 | |
| sdague | wadl was supposed to be a tool to make this easier, but it clearly isn't | 12:30 |
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| sdague | so why don't we just take over the html file and just write it ourselves | 12:31 |
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| sdague | forcing through a set of tools that only make it harder to do what we want to do just seems weird | 12:31 |
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| alex_xu | looks like need some change for the doc job | 12:32 |
| alex_xu | sdague: I guess the html theme is generated automactially | 12:33 |
| sdague | sure, everything would need a change somewhere. But I mostly want to get folks to realize that these things are tools to make life easier, if they don't, we should go around them. We shouldn't be a slave to the tools. | 12:33 |
| alex_xu | sdague: if there is something theme changed, that will be pain | 12:33 |
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| johnthetubaguy | so I do agree with should ditch bad tools, but I am not sure its all about the tooling at this point though | 12:34 |
| sdague | johnthetubaguy: sure | 12:34 |
| johnthetubaguy | we can get the base v2.1 sorted, with the existing tooling | 12:34 |
| sdague | yep | 12:34 |
| johnthetubaguy | and we can get the concept guide finished | 12:35 |
| johnthetubaguy | at that point, we get to decide how to do v2.2 I think | 12:35 |
| sdague | ok, so are there any content patches up for review now? | 12:35 |
| johnthetubaguy | I just want to be sure we don't slow progress right now | 12:35 |
| johnthetubaguy | so I added mine to the the etherpad | 12:35 |
| johnthetubaguy | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/mitaka-nova-priorities-tracking | 12:35 |
| sdague | link ? (sorry, so many etherpads) | 12:36 |
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| sdague | ok, great | 12:36 |
| alex_xu | #info please put api doc patch into the https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/mitaka-nova-priorities-tracking | 12:36 |
| alex_xu | some patches link still in the https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/nova-v2.1-api-doc | 12:37 |
| johnthetubaguy | so that is the main etherpad, that links to all others (in theory) | 12:37 |
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| jichen | alex_xu: which one? the patches in the doc etherpad? | 12:37 |
| sdague | johnthetubaguy: yep, got it now | 12:37 |
| jichen | ok, got it | 12:37 |
| jichen | by the way, previous merged patches has not much review such as https://review.openstack.org/#/c/244038/ | 12:38 |
| alex_xu | ok, the finial decision is just focus on the concept doc and wadl api ref | 12:38 |
| sdague | ok, so my recommendation. For this meeting. Agenda item #1: content patches up for review. Agenda item #2: most needed next content patches. Agenda item: #3 api specs outstanding by community. Agenda #4: api changes outstaing by community. | 12:39 |
| oomichi | nice agenda :) | 12:39 |
| jichen | +1 | 12:39 |
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| johnthetubaguy | so one more question, the wadl stuff lives in openstack/api-site right now | 12:40 |
| alex_xu | yea, nice agenda | 12:40 |
| johnthetubaguy | do we want that inside nova? I am unsure really | 12:40 |
| johnthetubaguy | sdague: +1 for that agenda, makes sense | 12:40 |
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| johnthetubaguy | so if its in nova, we can force people to land docs with their API patches, in theory, at least | 12:41 |
| sdague | we can do depends-on | 12:41 |
| oomichi | johnthetubaguy: it was difficult to change wadl files directly by hands | 12:41 |
| alex_xu | johnthetubaguy: at least that is thing after wadl support microversion | 12:41 |
| sdague | johnthetubaguy: I think the more important thing is to get the api subteam +2 rights on our repo | 12:42 |
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| sdague | johnthetubaguy: or some way that we can approve through content quicker | 12:42 |
| sdague | so that we can sprint on those fixes | 12:42 |
| alex_xu | yea | 12:42 |
| sdague | ok, so here are some content patches which need review | 12:42 |
| johnthetubaguy | sdague: so the etherpad is meant to do that, eventually the subteam approve counts as a +2, once its trusted | 12:42 |
| sdague | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/236947/ - Add more 'actions' for server concepts doc | 12:43 |
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| sdague | johnthetubaguy: sure, that still means you are sitting around waiting for folks | 12:43 |
| johnthetubaguy | sdague: we could do a feature branch for the docs | 12:43 |
| sdague | if I dedicate 1/2 a day to reviewing through a bunch of this, I want the ability to land it all then. | 12:44 |
| sdague | maybe we're talking across purposes here | 12:44 |
| johnthetubaguy | possibly | 12:44 |
| johnthetubaguy | do you mean api-site? | 12:44 |
| sdague | my concern is api-site | 12:44 |
| sdague | yes | 12:44 |
| johnthetubaguy | ah, gotcha | 12:44 |
| johnthetubaguy | maybe we could ask for a feature branch over there? | 12:44 |
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| johnthetubaguy | I mean we could just drag it into the Nova tree, along side the concept guide | 12:45 |
| johnthetubaguy | but I see your point | 12:45 |
| johnthetubaguy | thats not the key issue | 12:45 |
| sdague | yeh, let's just ask about that | 12:45 |
| sdague | #action sdague ask docs team about approval rights by api subteam on our wadl | 12:45 |
| johnthetubaguy | sdague: thanks | 12:46 |
| alex_xu | sdague: thanks | 12:46 |
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| alex_xu | so move on, we still have other agenda? | 12:46 |
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| markus_z | I'd like to say a few words about api related bugs, if we have time left? | 12:46 |
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| alex_xu | markus_z: yea, there is open topic | 12:47 |
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| alex_xu | sdague: do you want to talk remove project_id? | 12:47 |
| alex_xu | if there is any update | 12:47 |
| alex_xu | if not just jump it | 12:47 |
| sdague | alex_xu: sure, auggy is working on tests for it right now | 12:48 |
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| sdague | she's going to get the api_samples to run a 4th run with optional project_id on v2.1 | 12:48 |
| sdague | we walked through the test infrastructure and the testscenarios the other day | 12:48 |
| alex_xu | sdague: ok | 12:48 |
| sdague | so I'm hopefully that's read to go this week | 12:48 |
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| sdague | I don't think it's passing quite yet | 12:49 |
| alex_xu | sdague: ok, cool, just wait the patch up for review | 12:49 |
| sdague | I'll add it to the etherpad once it is | 12:49 |
| alex_xu | ok, let's mvoe on | 12:49 |
| * annegentle waves ever so briefly since kids have to get to school early today (only happens once a month) | 12:49 | |
| alex_xu | s/mvoe/move | 12:49 |
| alex_xu | #topic API futures - specs | 12:49 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "API futures - specs (Meeting topic: nova api)" | 12:49 | |
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| alex_xu | one item from mriedem | 12:50 |
| alex_xu | mriedem: There are a few nova specs that propose to add paging support to some APIs which are dependent onhttps://review.openstack.org/#/c/190743/ - so review on that as a priority would be helpful. | 12:50 |
| alex_xu | I guess just a note for need review | 12:50 |
| alex_xu | and I have no more at here | 12:51 |
| johnthetubaguy | there was talk of pushing forward the API WG proposals | 12:51 |
| alex_xu | johnthetubaguy: yea | 12:51 |
| johnthetubaguy | tonyb suggested that, I think, on the ML | 12:51 |
| johnthetubaguy | seems like some of that has come back to life | 12:51 |
| alex_xu | johnthetubaguy: ok | 12:51 |
| johnthetubaguy | it would be great if we could get general paging agreement before we add our own custom stuff | 12:51 |
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| sdague | yeh, I poked etoews about a couple of those, which is why this one and the error doc are moving forward | 12:52 |
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| sdague | I have a todo on the error doc as I strongly believed we want links to the docs for the errors to be mandatory | 12:52 |
| alex_xu | ok, api-wg guideline is merged too slow, if something depend on that, it bad news | 12:53 |
| alex_xu | let's jump to open | 12:53 |
| alex_xu | #topic open | 12:53 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open (Meeting topic: nova api)" | 12:53 | |
| alex_xu | markus_z: your turn | 12:53 |
| markus_z | alex_xu: cool, thanks, I make it quick | 12:54 |
| markus_z | It would be great if some volunteers could have a look at the api related untriaged bugs | 12:54 |
| markus_z | #help https://bugs.launchpad.net/nova/+bugs?field.tag=api+&field.status%3Alist=NEW | 12:54 |
| markus_z | If someone would step up to be the contact for such bugs in the future, please add your contact details in the wiki | 12:54 |
| markus_z | #help https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Nova/BugTriage#Step_2:_Triage_Tagged_Bugs | 12:54 |
| alex_xu | markus_z: thanks for reminder | 12:54 |
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| sdague | markus_z: yeh, good point. Honestly that's probably agend #5 for the meeting is untriaged bugs / and existing bugs | 12:55 |
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| alex_xu | any volunteers on triage api bug? if not, I will be the one | 12:56 |
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| sdague | yeh, I'll go through those right after this meeting | 12:56 |
| jichen | I can help you on that | 12:56 |
| alex_xu | jichen: thanks | 12:56 |
| sdague | anyone else that's interested, we can chat about questions in #openstack-nova | 12:56 |
| markus_z | awesome, thanks a lot! | 12:57 |
| jichen | https://bugs.launchpad.net/nova/+bug/1516158 was opened by me , seems we don't have time to go through | 12:57 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1516158 in OpenStack Compute (nova) "os-instance_usage_audit_log is used instead of os-instance-usage-audit-log" [Undecided,New] - Assigned to jichenjc (jichenjc) | 12:57 |
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| alex_xu | let me bring up this one quicly | 12:57 |
| alex_xu | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/214691/ | 12:57 |
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| sdague | alex_xu: yeh, I just approved it | 12:58 |
| alex_xu | ^ I think we can remove those uselss retry header | 12:58 |
| alex_xu | sdague: cool~ | 12:58 |
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| jichen | sdague: alex_xu thanks~ | 12:58 |
| sdague | the retry header was really meant for API rate limit conditions | 12:58 |
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| sdague | I don't know why someone applied it to quota fails | 12:58 |
| johnthetubaguy | makes sense, thanks | 12:58 |
| alex_xu | yea | 12:58 |
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| alex_xu | 1 mins left, if no more question, let's move to openstack-nova | 12:59 |
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| sdague | yeh, thanks folks | 12:59 |
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| jichen | ok, thanks | 12:59 |
| alex_xu | ok, thanks all | 12:59 |
| edleafe | thanks! | 12:59 |
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| oomichi | thanks :) | 12:59 |
| alex_xu | #endmeeting | 12:59 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 12:59 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Nov 17 12:59:38 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 12:59 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova_api/2015/nova_api.2015-11-17-12.00.html | 12:59 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova_api/2015/nova_api.2015-11-17-12.00.txt | 12:59 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova_api/2015/nova_api.2015-11-17-12.00.log.html | 12:59 |
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| yanyanhu | #startmeeting senlin | 13:04 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Nov 17 13:04:17 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is yanyanhu. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 13:04 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 13:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: senlin)" | 13:04 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'senlin' | 13:04 |
| yanyanhu | hi, guys | 13:04 |
| haiwei | hi | 13:04 |
| elynn | Hi | 13:04 |
| Liuqing | hello | 13:04 |
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| tyagiprince | Hey | 13:04 |
| jruano | hi | 13:04 |
| Qiming | o/ | 13:04 |
| yanyanhu | hello | 13:05 |
| yanyanhu | Qiming, I have started the meeting, you can hold it now :) | 13:05 |
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| Qiming | go ahead as the host, ;) | 13:05 |
| yanyanhu | ok | 13:06 |
| yanyanhu | so the agenda is here https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/SenlinAgenda | 13:06 |
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| Qiming | I'm still having problems thinking clearly | 13:06 |
| yanyanhu | time difference? | 13:06 |
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| yanyanhu | currently, one two items have been added to agenda, if you guys have something else want to discuss, plz feel free to add them | 13:06 |
| Qiming | yes, my body still confused what time is it | 13:07 |
| yanyanhu | sigh... you need have a good sleep | 13:07 |
| haiwei | when will you be back | 13:07 |
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| haiwei | to Beijing | 13:07 |
| yanyanhu | #topic update work status | 13:07 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "update work status (Meeting topic: senlin)" | 13:07 | |
| Qiming | leaving tomorrow | 13:07 |
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| yanyanhu | ok, maybe lets update our on-going work first | 13:07 |
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| tyagiprince | lets start | 13:08 |
| yanyanhu | who want to be the first one? | 13:08 |
| elynn | you mean the BPs? | 13:08 |
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| yanyanhu | I think some TODO items have been claimed and related bps have been filed | 13:08 |
| yanyanhu | yep | 13:08 |
| elynn | ok, I will start first | 13:08 |
| yanyanhu | so I belive you guys have started working on something :) | 13:08 |
| jruano | i spent some time looking at monasca | 13:08 |
| jruano | last week | 13:09 |
| yanyanhu | ok | 13:09 |
| elynn | I post 3 patches for lock breaker | 13:09 |
| jruano | might put that on hold, as speaking to qiming last week, it is going to be low priority | 13:09 |
| yanyanhu | hi, ethan, maybe we can let jruano first :) | 13:09 |
| yanyanhu | jruano, yes | 13:09 |
| elynn | :) | 13:10 |
| yanyanhu | it's now given low priority | 13:10 |
| jruano | there are some issues with the monasca api that are different than ceilometer, namely notification api | 13:10 |
| Qiming | the priority is relatively low when compared to a generic receiver api | 13:10 |
| yanyanhu | since we are still not sure we should support trigger completely in senlin, @ Qiming | 13:10 |
| jruano | and not really need it right now | 13:10 |
| jruano | yes | 13:10 |
| Qiming | some knowledge of monasca would actually help us shaping the api | 13:10 |
| jruano | so i started to look at the webhook interface, and thinking of how to generalize it | 13:11 |
| jruano | i will claim the receiver item | 13:11 |
| jruano | and update todo | 13:11 |
| yanyanhu | jruano, cool | 13:11 |
| Qiming | \o/ | 13:11 |
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| jruano | so that's me. will dig into receiver generalization this week | 13:12 |
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| haiwei | the next elynn? | 13:12 |
| yanyanhu | nice | 13:13 |
| yanyanhu | I think the design of receiver is something we really need to take care about, maybe we can make thorough discussion on it before start coding :) | 13:13 |
| jruano | for sure | 13:13 |
| jruano | i will draw up the blueprint for discussion | 13:13 |
| elynn | :) | 13:13 |
| yanyanhu | jruano, thanks | 13:13 |
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| elynn | for lock breaker, I post 3 patches to steal a lock from dead engine. | 13:14 |
| yanyanhu | elynn, your turn now :) | 13:14 |
| yanyanhu | yes, I saw it | 13:14 |
| haiwei | I have reviewed one | 13:14 |
| elynn | But I don't know why db api for cluster/node lock doesn't require a context. | 13:15 |
| haiwei | seems good to me | 13:15 |
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| elynn | While other db_api always require context. | 13:15 |
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| yanyanhu | let me check it | 13:15 |
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| Qiming | elynn, there are two levels of locks | 13:16 |
| yanyanhu | hmm, that's true | 13:16 |
| yanyanhu | http://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack/senlin/tree/senlin/db/sqlalchemy/api.py#n635 | 13:16 |
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| Qiming | first level is an action is claimed by an engine, where we don't have context, maybe we should? | 13:16 |
| Qiming | the second level is an action claims the lock on a cluster/node | 13:17 |
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| yanyanhu | hi, Qiming, we give context when locking action http://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack/senlin/tree/senlin/db/sqlalchemy/api.py#n1481 | 13:17 |
| elynn | Qiming: I haven't notice that is there any lock that is claimed by engine. | 13:17 |
| Qiming | yes, that context contains a db session I think | 13:17 |
| yanyanhu | yes | 13:17 |
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| yanyanhu | elynn, the related code is in engine/actions/base.py now | 13:18 |
| yanyanhu | but we plan to move to engine/scheduler.py | 13:18 |
| elynn | hmm... | 13:18 |
| yanyanhu | in this patch https://review.openstack.org/244026 | 13:18 |
| elynn | Seems I need to take engine lock into consider. | 13:19 |
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| yanyanhu | now its here http://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack/senlin/tree/senlin/engine/actions/base.py#n483 | 13:19 |
| Qiming | http://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack/senlin/tree/senlin/engine/actions/base.py#n483 | 13:19 |
| elynn | I just handle cluster/node lock for now. | 13:19 |
| yanyanhu | yea | 13:19 |
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| Qiming | when breaking locks, we need to consider two things: actions locked by a 'dead' engine; clusters/nodes locked by those actions | 13:20 |
| yanyanhu | yes | 13:20 |
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| elynn | yes, will cover the first case in future codes. current codes only covers later case. | 13:21 |
| haiwei | elynn, I think you are considering engine lock in this patch https://review.openstack.org/#/c/243483/ | 13:21 |
| haiwei | the owner is engine id | 13:22 |
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| haiwei | 'owner' | 13:22 |
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| elynn | haiwei: yes, part of it, just aware the action is owner by the dead engine, but haven't clean it in db. | 13:22 |
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| yanyanhu | elynn, I think maybe we can temporarily ignore the lock stealing of action since it may depends on more action support like suspend, resume | 13:23 |
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| Qiming | yes, once we have a clear picture of the 2-level locks, problems is not that difficult to solve | 13:23 |
| haiwei | ok, expect your patch later | 13:23 |
| elynn | yanyanhu: Qiming, so we also hold this BP for now? | 13:24 |
| Qiming | yanyanhu, why is that? | 13:24 |
| Qiming | I'm not seeing a direct connection between action suspend/resume and lock breaker | 13:24 |
| yanyanhu | hi, Qiming I think if the lock of an action is slean by another engine, it means the new coming engine try to recover/resume this action | 13:25 |
| Qiming | missed something? | 13:25 |
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| yanyanhu | which is currently being seized by an dead engine | 13:25 |
| Qiming | if the engine is dead, the actions previously held/locked by the engine need to be unlocked | 13:26 |
| haiwei | I think that should be a new action | 13:26 |
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| yanyanhu | Qiming, yes, but if we don't consider action resume, that lock stealing will be easy to handle I think | 13:27 |
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| elynn | Qiming: so after steal a lock from action, then this engine will continue to execute this action? | 13:27 |
| haiwei | yes, the previous action should go to ERROR, and the new action will get the lock | 13:27 |
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| jruano | i now see why we need distributed lock management :) | 13:28 |
| Qiming | right, there are corner cases where an action was killed | 13:28 |
| yanyanhu | elynn, that is what we want to support in future | 13:28 |
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| Qiming | jruano, nod | 13:28 |
| yanyanhu | jruano, yep :) | 13:28 |
| Qiming | elynn, continue execute an action sounds a little dangerous to me | 13:29 |
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| elynn | yanyanhu: hmm, then the scope of this BP is getting bigger then I thought. | 13:29 |
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| yanyanhu | elynn, I think you can just keep it in current status and focus on lock stealing of cluster/node | 13:29 |
| elynn | Qiming: isn't that the action resume thing? | 13:29 |
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| yanyanhu | management of action lock will be another topic I believe | 13:30 |
| elynn | So this BP just cover cluster/node lock stealing thing is ok? | 13:30 |
| haiwei | make a dead action relive?? seems cool, but.. | 13:31 |
| Qiming | elynn, maybe we should go with haiwei's suggestion -- restart the action | 13:31 |
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| yanyanhu | hmm, but restarting an action without getting its current status is a little dangerous I think | 13:32 |
| yanyanhu | e.g. some physical resources has been created, maybe we need to clean them before restart the action? | 13:33 |
| Qiming | I'm not a big fan of lock stealing, to be honest | 13:33 |
| yanyanhu | Qiming, me too actually | 13:33 |
| elynn | Qiming: That should be done in lock breaker? I mean I can do it, but seems not very related to this BP. | 13:33 |
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| yanyanhu | it should be only used in some cases like engine die | 13:33 |
| elynn | yanyanhu: agree with you. | 13:33 |
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| haiwei | what about supporting lock breaker first? | 13:34 |
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| Qiming | yanyanhu, making action execution transactional, i.e. roll it back? sounds fancy, but I don't think it is feasible | 13:34 |
| haiwei | agree | 13:34 |
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| yanyanhu | hmm, that's true... at least in current stage | 13:34 |
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| Qiming | the simplest approach could be just mark all actions locked by a 'dead' engine as failed | 13:35 |
| yanyanhu | so maybe we just set action to failed status if we found its owner died for some reasons? | 13:35 |
| yanyanhu | yea | 13:35 |
| Qiming | and remove locks on the cluster/nodes locked by that action | 13:35 |
| haiwei | agreed | 13:35 |
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| elynn | yanyanhu: yes, that sounds easy to approach. | 13:36 |
| haiwei | support this first, and see what we can do further | 13:36 |
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| Qiming | yep | 13:36 |
| elynn | And when to do that check? | 13:36 |
| haiwei | what check | 13:36 |
| yanyanhu | when next time you reach the action | 13:36 |
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| elynn | to check if the action owner by dead engine. | 13:37 |
| yanyanhu | maybe cuased by user's request | 13:37 |
| yanyanhu | or scheduling movement | 13:37 |
| yanyanhu | e.g. user execute action-show | 13:37 |
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| yanyanhu | or a scheduler try to claim this action to run? | 13:37 |
| elynn | yanyanhu: yes , two way to do so, regularly or just trigger by other action. | 13:37 |
| haiwei | yes, when that is checked, it should be released auto, user should not know it | 13:37 |
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| elynn | If add a scheduler to do so, might cause other problems in multi-engine env. | 13:39 |
| elynn | like race condition. | 13:39 |
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| elynn | I would prefer to set dead actions to failed when some certain other actions need to lock the cluster/node? | 13:40 |
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| elynn | what do you think? | 13:40 |
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| Qiming | my previous thought was a scavenger daemon, which will clean the mess left by dead engines, remove old actions and events from db, so on and so forth | 13:40 |
| yanyanhu | and then found the engine who is working on the owner action of cluster/node has dead? | 13:41 |
| elynn | Qiming: That means another service? | 13:41 |
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| elynn | Qiming: or running in senlin-engine? | 13:41 |
| Qiming | but it sounds a bit complicated, there will be another lock... | 13:41 |
| Qiming | elynn, running in senlin-engine was the idea | 13:41 |
| yanyanhu | Qiming, I think this is good, but still not very clear how to implement it | 13:42 |
| elynn | Qiming: yes, that might introduce other lock for this service. | 13:42 |
| yanyanhu | so before we have it, maybe just do passitive lock breaking? | 13:42 |
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| elynn | Since we can only let one service cleaning current db at one time. | 13:42 |
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| Qiming | yes, that is where we may need a "single" coordinator thing, or a good dlm solution | 13:43 |
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| haiwei | what about doing like this? when some action need to steal the lock, it find the dead engine first, and then clean the dead action, and then steal the lock | 13:43 |
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| yanyanhu | haiwei, this is what I mean by 'passitive' :) | 13:44 |
| elynn | haiwei: sounds good to me. | 13:44 |
| Qiming | but anyway, we can start with some basic primitives that will do engine aliveness checking, action unlocking | 13:44 |
| elynn | yanyanhu: seems we all mean that ;) | 13:44 |
| yanyanhu | agree | 13:44 |
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| Qiming | passive you mean, :) | 13:44 |
| yanyanhu | oh, right | 13:45 |
| yanyanhu | sigh... | 13:45 |
| haiwei | ok | 13:45 |
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| yanyanhu | ok, if we are clear about this issue, lets move on? | 13:45 |
| elynn | yes | 13:46 |
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| haiwei | the next is? | 13:46 |
| yanyanhu | haiwei, your turn now? | 13:46 |
| haiwei | ok | 13:46 |
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| haiwei | I assigned this https://blueprints.launchpad.net/senlin/+spec/http-response-modification | 13:46 |
| yanyanhu | ok | 13:47 |
| haiwei | not started yet, just thinking about it | 13:47 |
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| yanyanhu | it's about API refactor | 13:47 |
| haiwei | it seems I need to modify quite a lot in senlin/common/wsgi.py | 13:47 |
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| yanyanhu | hope it can make our API stable and more consistent with the guide from API-WG | 13:48 |
| haiwei | yes | 13:48 |
| yanyanhu | haiwei, just feel free to propose the patch :) | 13:48 |
| haiwei | return 202 is not difficult, we still need to add url of the resource in response body?? | 13:48 |
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| yanyanhu | yes, I guess so | 13:49 |
| Qiming | haiwei, yes, in response header | 13:49 |
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| haiwei | in header not body? | 13:49 |
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| Qiming | check the api-wg guideline | 13:49 |
| haiwei | I investigated other projects, they are storing url in body | 13:49 |
| Qiming | read this again: http://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack/api-wg/tree/guidelines/http.rst#n105 | 13:50 |
| haiwei | I have read the guideline, maybe it is not meaning to store them in header, english is a little difficult | 13:50 |
| Qiming | "* Must return a Location header set to one of the following:" | 13:50 |
| haiwei | the a Location header is response header?? | 13:51 |
| Qiming | what else could 'header' mean then? | 13:51 |
| Qiming | maybe it was a misunderstanding | 13:51 |
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| Qiming | pls check with the author | 13:52 |
| Qiming | cannot recall his name/ircnic | 13:52 |
| haiwei | ok, I will do it | 13:52 |
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| yanyanhu | thanks, haiwei | 13:53 |
| Qiming | Miguel Grinberg | 13:53 |
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| haiwei | ok | 13:53 |
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| yanyanhu | ok, my turn I guess | 13:53 |
| yanyanhu | just quick update my work | 13:53 |
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| yanyanhu | I started working on senlin scheduler to make it support initiative action scheduling | 13:54 |
| Qiming | ok | 13:54 |
| yanyanhu | currently, scheduler is not a real 'scheduler' since it will only schedule the action given to it by dispatcher | 13:54 |
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| yanyanhu | we hope to make it smarter and behave more like a 'scheduler' | 13:55 |
| haiwei | yes | 13:55 |
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| yanyanhu | so the first step is to add the ability to choose a random ready action to schedule | 13:55 |
| yanyanhu | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/244026/ | 13:55 |
| yanyanhu | patch is here | 13:55 |
| Qiming | don't be too smart, just some basic 'scheduling' would suffice, :) | 13:55 |
| yanyanhu | Qiming, yep :) | 13:56 |
| Qiming | will jump onto that | 13:56 |
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| yanyanhu | many thanks | 13:56 |
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| yanyanhu | ok, time is almost over | 13:56 |
| yanyanhu | #topic open discussion | 13:56 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: senlin)" | 13:56 | |
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| yanyanhu | anything else want to discuss | 13:57 |
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| elynn | not from me :) | 13:57 |
| jruano_ | i am out on vacation next week. thanksgiving for us in the usa | 13:57 |
| yanyanhu | I guess we need to postpone the topic of rechecking existing bps to next meeting | 13:57 |
| yanyanhu | jruano_, have a good vacation :) | 13:57 |
| Qiming | jruano_, best wishes, :) | 13:57 |
| haiwei | hope you can have time to review this https://review.openstack.org/#/c/238753/ | 13:57 |
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| Qiming | yanyanhu, fine | 13:57 |
| elynn | jruano_: Have a nice vacation ;) | 13:57 |
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| haiwei | it's there for quite a long time | 13:57 |
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| yanyanhu | yes, we need some dicussion about this issue | 13:58 |
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| Qiming | haiwei, okay | 13:58 |
| haiwei | that all from me | 13:58 |
| yanyanhu | ok, so I guess that's all for this meeting? | 13:58 |
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| yanyanhu | ok, thanks you guys for joining, have a good night/day :) | 13:59 |
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| jruano_ | bye | 13:59 |
| Qiming | bye | 13:59 |
| * regXboi wanders in and looks at the clock | 13:59 | |
| elynn | thank you! | 13:59 |
| yanyanhu | bye, lets move back to senlin channel | 13:59 |
| yanyanhu | #endmeeting | 13:59 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 13:59 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Nov 17 13:59:40 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 13:59 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/senlin/2015/senlin.2015-11-17-13.04.html | 13:59 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/senlin/2015/senlin.2015-11-17-13.04.txt | 13:59 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/senlin/2015/senlin.2015-11-17-13.04.log.html | 13:59 |
| armax | hi | 13:59 |
| mestery | o/ | 13:59 |
| xgerman | o/ | 13:59 |
| amotoki | hi | 13:59 |
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| rkukura | hi | 14:00 |
| annp | Hi | 14:00 |
| HenryG | o/ | 14:00 |
| * regXboi is here but will be distracted for first 10-15 minutes | 14:00 | |
| rtheis | o/ | 14:00 |
| yamamoto | hi | 14:00 |
| armax | #startmeeting networking | 14:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Nov 17 14:00:14 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is armax. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 14:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 14:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: networking)" | 14:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'networking' | 14:00 |
| carl_baldwin | Hi | 14:00 |
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| hoangcx | Hi | 14:00 |
| pc_m | hi | 14:00 |
| kevinbenton | Hi | 14:00 |
| obondarev_ | o/ | 14:00 |
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| SridharG | hi | 14:00 |
| wwriverrat | hi | 14:00 |
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| jschwarz | \o/ | 14:00 |
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| rossella_s | hi | 14:01 |
| armax | hi folks | 14:01 |
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| mestery | Good morning armax! | 14:01 |
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| ajo | o/ :) | 14:01 |
| garyk1 | mestery: is that a wake up call? | 14:01 |
| armax | #topic Announcements | 14:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Announcements (Meeting topic: networking)" | 14:02 | |
| regXboi | WAKE UP | 14:02 |
| mestery | garyk1: I think armax needs one. | 14:02 |
| regXboi | ^^^^^^^ that is a wake up call | 14:02 |
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| armax | I do | 14:02 |
| * mestery hands armax espresso | 14:02 | |
| ajo | good morning :-) | 14:02 |
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| garyk1 | he should be triaging bugs and not sleeping | 14:02 |
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| salv-orlando | aloha | 14:02 |
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| * xgerman wonders who cam up with this 6 am time slot | 14:02 | |
| armax | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Network/Meetings | 14:02 |
| regXboi | xgerman: blame daylight savings time | 14:03 |
| armax | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Network/Meetings#Announcements_.2F_Reminders | 14:03 |
| mhickey | Hey | 14:03 |
| armax | a couple of things worth sharing | 14:03 |
| jschwarz | xgerman, it's 16:00 here in Europe.. this meeting is for us as well as you American guys ;-) | 14:03 |
| salv-orlando | gcc | 14:03 |
| garyk1 | xgerman: you can always read the logs and send a mail to the list if there are issues that trouble you | 14:03 |
| salv-orlando | meh | 14:03 |
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| regXboi | salv-orlando: gcc: not found | 14:03 |
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| ajo | lol regXboi salv-orlando | 14:04 |
| * armax gives people time to go through the reminders while he snoozes a bit | 14:04 | |
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| akamyshnikova | hi! sorry being late | 14:04 |
| hichihara | hi | 14:04 |
| amotoki | just announcement of sharing neutron meetup photos in Tokyo https://goo.gl/photos/HHTwgCSXoPuG5iqt5 | 14:04 |
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| ajo | thanks for the reminders armax | 14:04 |
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| hichihara | amotoki: Nice! :) | 14:05 |
| armax | it’s worth noting the creation of the assert tags | 14:05 |
| armax | mestery: can tell us more, since he’s the TC dude | 14:05 |
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| armax | I can’t see markmclain | 14:05 |
| armax | markmcclain: ping? | 14:05 |
| mestery | armax: Which tags did you have qusetions about? | 14:05 |
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| mestery | armax: For the upgrade tags, we don't qualify for rolling-upgrade yet | 14:06 |
| mestery | But supports upgrade we can define | 14:06 |
| armax | mestery: right | 14:06 |
| mestery | BEcause we clearly support upgrades | 14:06 |
| ajo | amotoki : oh guys you had fun :') | 14:06 |
| mestery | I'll propose a patch for that today | 14:06 |
| armax | mestery: and I did: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/246242/ | 14:06 |
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| mestery | armax: You beat me to it | 14:06 |
| armax | mestery: of course | 14:06 |
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| armax | :) | 14:06 |
| mestery | armax: I hadn't reviewed governance patches yet today | 14:06 |
| armax | that said, the rolling upgrade is technically not htat far off | 14:06 |
| mestery | right | 14:07 |
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| armax | my wishful thinking is that garyk and sc68cal_ are gonna help with the partial grenade upgrade | 14:07 |
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| * regXboi wonders if it's time to rename grenade | 14:07 | |
| garyk1 | armax: the coming week i am going to be on the bugs | 14:07 |
| armax | there has been a thread going on lately | 14:07 |
| armax | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2015-November/079344.html | 14:08 |
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| armax | garyk1: multitasking? :) | 14:08 |
| garyk1 | :) | 14:08 |
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| ajo | garyk1: I can keep helping a bit in bg :), we need a deputy volunteer for the week after | 14:09 |
| korzen | the patch introducing the multinode grenade for neutron: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/245862 | 14:09 |
| armax | anyhow, it sounds like we could easily grasp the rolling-upgrade tag if we pull ourselves together and manage to have CI for the grenade partial job | 14:09 |
| garyk1 | i will be in touch with sc68cal_ and go from there | 14:09 |
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| armax | korzen: thanks for the link! | 14:09 |
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| regXboi | unfortunately, multinode jobs still look ill | 14:10 |
| armax | regXboi: true, but that shouldn’t stop us from making progress | 14:10 |
| kevinbenton | regXboi: is 'ill' a hip word for 'cool'? | 14:10 |
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| kevinbenton | As in, 'bro, check out this ill job' | 14:11 |
| regXboi | no, in this case "ill" == "still appear to be at 100% error rate" | 14:11 |
| armax | as for other reminders, there have been a couple of suggested improvements to the way we handle blueprints | 14:11 |
| armax | and rfe's | 14:11 |
| armax | full process detailed on: | 14:11 |
| armax | #link http://docs.openstack.org/developer/neutron/policies/blueprints.html | 14:11 |
| armax | regXboi: do we have a culprit? | 14:12 |
| regXboi | armax: there was yesterday - I'm looking to see if it still exists | 14:12 |
| hichihara | Who tries to fix multinode job issue? | 14:12 |
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| regXboi | ok, I *think* that the code to fix merged in the last hour - I'll keep an eye on it | 14:13 |
| armax | regXboi: link? | 14:14 |
| armax | regXboi: it looks like both multi-jobs broke | 14:14 |
| regXboi | armax: all the multinode jobs broke - getting the links from eavesdrop now | 14:14 |
| armax | regXboi: ok thanks | 14:14 |
| obondarev | armax: yeah, both for the same reason: live migration test | 14:15 |
| garyk1 | regXboi: http://logs.openstack.org/18/245518/5/check/gate-tempest-dsvm-neutron-multinode-full/5a3c901/logs/testr_results.html.gz (live migration test) | 14:15 |
| armax | obondarev: looks like that’s a tempest issue | 14:15 |
| garyk1 | why do we need livemigration for neutron jobs? | 14:15 |
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| obondarev | garyk1: it's a part of full tempest suite I guess | 14:16 |
| armax | garyk1: why do we need to test neutron at all? | 14:16 |
| garyk1 | it is something that is usually broken at the best of times in nova | 14:16 |
| armax | garyk1: even in the nova net case you mean? | 14:16 |
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| garyk1 | armax: why the cynicism? | 14:16 |
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| ajo | recently I found a live migration issue in nova | 14:17 |
| armax | garyk1: I was making a joke | 14:17 |
| garyk1 | armax: yes, there is even a working group setup to address live migrations | 14:17 |
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| regXboi | ok patch that broke multinode: https://review.openstack.org/245996 | 14:17 |
| ajo | they don't wait on port notifications from neutron, before bringing up the VM at destination | 14:17 |
| ajo | that only shows up in mutlinode | 14:17 |
| regXboi | patch that fixed multinode: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/233711/ | 14:17 |
| ajo | VM is resumed before network is wired, RARP messages get blackholed, so the nodes don't know where the MAC address belongs to | 14:17 |
| armax | regXboi: how can 245996 break multi node? | 14:17 |
| armax | regXboi: you sure it’s the right link | 14:18 |
| regXboi | ugh | 14:18 |
| regXboi | no it isn't | 14:18 |
| kevinbenton | ajo: any reason why it hadn't been fixed? | 14:18 |
| regXboi | 233711 broke multinode | 14:18 |
| obondarev | ajo: related https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/1414559 ? | 14:18 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1414559 in neutron "OVS drops RARP packets by QEMU upon live-migration - VM temporarily disconnected" [Undecided,Invalid] - Assigned to sean mooney (sean-k-mooney) | 14:18 |
| regXboi | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/245697/ supposedly fixed it | 14:18 |
| ajo | yeah | 14:18 |
| ajo | obondarev : exactly | 14:18 |
| obondarev | ajo: I'm currently working on https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/1414559 | 14:18 |
| ajo | thanks, it's that one | 14:18 |
| obondarev | ajo: have patches for nova and neutron, testing | 14:19 |
| ajo | obondarev , but as I saw, it was more a nova thing, because they start the VM before network is wired | 14:19 |
| regXboi | amuller and I discussed this yesterday in channel: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/irclogs/%23openstack-neutron/%23openstack-neutron.2015-11-16.log.html#t2015-11-16T21:42:10 | 14:19 |
| ajo | they should use notification | 14:19 |
| ajo | ack | 14:19 |
| ajo | that's likely to be the culprit of live migration failures | 14:19 |
| armax | ok, it looks like we have a handle on this then | 14:19 |
| ajo | I investigated that for 1 week.. | 14:19 |
| armax | but the failure I observed | 14:19 |
| armax | that garyk1 shared | 14:19 |
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| armax | was related to a setup issue | 14:19 |
| armax | nothing to do with the dataplane | 14:19 |
| obondarev | ajo: neutron should send notification in the first, we can take it offline to not wast meeting time | 14:19 |
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| ajo | obondarev: ack | 14:20 |
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| armax | ajo, obondarev: even though the change you’re referring to may be addressing some other instability | 14:20 |
| salv-orlando | ajo: I seem to recall that upon certain events nova does not wait for a notification from neutron before restaring the VM | 14:20 |
| armax | salv-orlando: how rude | 14:20 |
| ajo | armax : ack | 14:20 |
| salv-orlando | the logic is buried deep in the compute manager so it's not easy to grasp | 14:21 |
| salv-orlando | but this was over a year ago, maybe in the meanwhile things have changed | 14:21 |
| ajo | yes, this was a race condition by nova not honoring the notification, does not happen 100% of the time. | 14:21 |
| salv-orlando | ajo: which might be consistent with nova ignoring the notification and therefore things being racey | 14:21 |
| armax | ok, so someone maybe be interested in going to the nova mid-cycle meetup and yell at the nova people? the event is scheduled for Jan 26 2016 | 14:21 |
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| armax | details here: | 14:22 |
| armax | #link https://www.eventbrite.com.au/e/openstack-mitaka-nova-mid-cycle-meetup-tickets-19326224257 | 14:22 |
| kevinbenton | I can't get :'( | 14:22 |
| kevinbenton | Go* | 14:22 |
| mestery | It's in London, right armax? | 14:22 |
| armax | mestery: bristol | 14:22 |
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| armax | that was the last of the reminders | 14:22 |
| ajo | I think rdopiera from redhat was looking at it, | 14:22 |
| armax | let’s move on to the next section | 14:22 |
| salv-orlando | armax: I think some discussion in IRC and a bug report will lead to a patch and a fix | 14:22 |
| ajo | but I could eventually try to speedup it, or help | 14:22 |
| salv-orlando | no need to put yourself on a plane ;) | 14:22 |
| ajo | specially if it's hurting our jobs, but it seems obondarev had already a good look on the issue | 14:23 |
| armax | salv-orlando: I know, I found that lack of sleeps makes me particular prone to making jokes | 14:23 |
| armax | #topic Blueprints | 14:23 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Blueprints (Meeting topic: networking)" | 14:23 | |
| armax | #link https://launchpad.net/neutron/+milestone/mitaka-1 | 14:23 |
| salv-orlando | armax: this is because I have poured scotch in your nespresso capsules | 14:23 |
| garyk1 | sorry to barge in but this may be what happens with the live migrate - https://github.com/openstack/nova/commit/150406679c14778f0479bc6d4e77df5119c0bdae | 14:24 |
| armax | salv-orlando: all makes sense now! | 14:24 |
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| armax | obondarev: just filed https://blueprints.launchpad.net/neutron/+spec/improve-dvr-l3-agent-binding | 14:24 |
| obondarev | armax: right, it's for already approved spec | 14:25 |
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| obondarev | armax: bp was missing I guess | 14:25 |
| armax | obondarev: technically something was something dangling from past days | 14:25 |
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| armax | obondarev: we need an approver | 14:25 |
| obondarev | armax: I think carl_baldwin is the right person | 14:26 |
| carl_baldwin | o/ | 14:26 |
| armax | I can’t be one, I am already approver on a bunch of other bp’s and I won’t be able to help you with reviews and stuf f as much | 14:26 |
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| obondarev | armax: k, changing to carl_baldwin | 14:26 |
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| armax | carl_baldwin: do you have fire power? | 14:26 |
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| carl_baldwin | Yes, I can take this | 14:27 |
| obondarev | carl_baldwin: thanks | 14:27 |
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| pc_m | armax: The multipel subnets to connect to vpn commits are all in (though it says needs code-review) | 14:27 |
| shihanzhang | this one https://review.openstack.org/#/c/196959/ was missed | 14:27 |
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| amotoki | pc_m: I should update the status of yours. | 14:28 |
| garyk1 | shihanzhang: any reason why the norifictaion do not suffice? | 14:29 |
| armax | anyone wants to raise flags over the progress of any of the blueprints targeted for M1? | 14:29 |
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| pc_m | armax: I'll help part-time on splitting neutron into base library | 14:30 |
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| pc_m | (already talking to dougwig | 14:30 |
| armax | pc_m: thanks | 14:30 |
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| garyk1 | armax: i would like to know from other what they think of the timestamp bp? | 14:30 |
| mestery | pc_m: Any progress there? | 14:30 |
| mestery | Because that one doesn't look like it's making a ton of progress according to LP at least | 14:30 |
| mestery | pc_m: Regarding https://blueprints.launchpad.net/neutron/+spec/neutron-lib | 14:30 |
| pc_m | Doug and I have some protoypes, but need to get test working. | 14:30 |
| mestery | ACk | 14:30 |
| armax | garyk1: faik, that must be resubmitted for mitaka, but that aside, there’s a change from kevinbenton that will help add this type of info to neutron resources | 14:31 |
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| armax | and it’s a requirement to timestamps, tags and the likes | 14:31 |
| garyk1 | armax: ok, thanks | 14:31 |
| garyk1 | that makes more sense that it be something generic | 14:31 |
| garyk1 | fyo - https://blueprints.launchpad.net/neutron/+spec/add-port-timestamp | 14:31 |
| armax | that said, we currently have 21 blueprints targeting ‘neutron’ for M1 | 14:32 |
| garyk1 | kevinbenton: can you please send a link to the work if possible | 14:32 |
| wwriverrat | armax: requesting for direction from this group: Was looking for your guidance on how to proceed with "Add API extension for reporting IP address usage statistics": https://review.openstack.org/#/c/212955/ | 14:32 |
| armax | garyk1: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/222079/ | 14:32 |
| xgerman | armax is flavor among them? | 14:33 |
| armax | xgerman: yes | 14:33 |
| shihanzhang | garyk1, this is the link https://review.openstack.org/222079 | 14:33 |
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| armax | we had 28 blueprints targeted for the whole of Liberty | 14:33 |
| armax | right now I am targeting everything for the first release | 14:33 |
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| armax | and will let stuff spill over as events unfold | 14:34 |
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| armax | bottom line: I am thinking that once we reached the 30-ish mark. We’re most likely shut for business for the Mitaka timeframe | 14:34 |
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| armax | I can’t think how we can take much more work than that | 14:35 |
| xgerman | red bull? | 14:35 |
| anteaya | have you seen what it does to your heart? | 14:35 |
| salv-orlando | 30-ish makes sense | 14:35 |
| armax | the drivers team will still continue to review regularly | 14:36 |
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| armax | rfe’s and specs | 14:36 |
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| armax | but we need to have a reasonable expectation of how much we can chew in a single release | 14:37 |
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| armax | anyhow, I think I am probably stating the obvious | 14:38 |
| armax | next up | 14:38 |
| armax | #topic Bugs | 14:38 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Bugs (Meeting topic: networking)" | 14:38 | |
| armax | ajo: you up | 14:38 |
| armax | bugs keep piling up | 14:38 |
| armax | :) | 14:38 |
| ajo | hi, sorry, I ad an interruption | 14:38 |
| ajo | I think garyk1 and I have a list | 14:38 |
| garyk1 | a lot of the bugs opened recently are lbaas specific | 14:38 |
| armax | it looks like we had ~70 reports only during last week | 14:38 |
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| ajo | yeah, I found this one concerning: https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/1513765 shihanzhang is working on it and needs some review | 14:39 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1513765 in neutron "bulk delete of ports cost iptables-firewall too much time" [High,In progress] - Assigned to shihanzhang (shihanzhang) | 14:39 |
| garyk1 | should those be in the neutron bugs or should we create a lbaas launchpad? just an idea? it will help focus more on the core bugs | 14:39 |
| ajo | it's due conntrack manipulation. | 14:39 |
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| ajo | I'm concerned the fix is not backportable, and I'd love if we could have amotoki's eyes on the patch | 14:39 |
| armax | garyk1: advs services and neutron are tracked by the same lp | 14:39 |
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| armax | garyk1: we use tags to differentiate | 14:40 |
| garyk1 | armax: i understand the tags, but i think that maybe we should consider splitting them out. | 14:40 |
| xgerman | yep, and octavia has it’s own tag | 14:40 |
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| garyk1 | that would give a truer picture | 14:40 |
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| garyk1 | but sorry, back to the bugs | 14:40 |
| wwriverrat | Regarding GoDaddy/Rax api extension for "IP usage" we plan to re-introduce into m-release: How would you like us to proceed? RFE->code? RFE->Spec->code? Re: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/180803/ | 14:40 |
| wwriverrat | Patch exists here: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/212955/ | 14:41 |
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| ajo | this one needs lbaas eyes on it: https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/1163569 it's been hanging there since 2013, not urgent btw, just needs some re-triage. | 14:42 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1163569 in neutron "security groups don't work with LBaaS vip and ovs plugin" [High,New] - Assigned to Doug Wiegley (dougwig) | 14:42 |
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| armax | wwriverrat: I think we have an rfe for that, possibly raised by someone else | 14:42 |
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| wwriverrat | https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/1457986 | 14:43 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1457986 in neutron "RFE: Need API to provide network IP allocation counts" [Wishlist,In progress] - Assigned to David Bingham (wwriverrat) | 14:43 |
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| armax | wwriverrat: let me look into that | 14:43 |
| ajo | enikanorov : could you update about: https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/1453008 ? | 14:43 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1453008 in neutron "Deadlock on update_port_status" [High,In progress] - Assigned to Eugene Nikanorov (enikanorov) | 14:43 |
| wwriverrat | armax: My question is around how to proceed. Will do as little or as much as you see fit. | 14:44 |
| armax | wwriverrat: at one point I saw to competing proposals | 14:44 |
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| armax | wwriverrat: I don’t have a clear picture right now…I need to go back and look before I can advise you further | 14:45 |
| armax | going back to bugs... | 14:45 |
| wwriverrat | thanks. I’ll try to pull up that other proposal | 14:45 |
| armax | ajo: anything else worth raising? | 14:45 |
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| armax | any gate failure worth noting? | 14:45 |
| armax | we have a massive stroke last week | 14:46 |
| ajo | https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/1513782 | 14:46 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1513782 in neutron "API response time degradation" [High,New] | 14:46 |
| armax | as someone might recall | 14:46 |
| ajo | this one is important I think | 14:46 |
| ajo | we had some important performance degradation | 14:46 |
| armax | kevinbenton seems to have volunteered on 1513782 | 14:47 |
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| armax | I wonder if that falls on the larger performance effort that regXboi is leading? | 14:47 |
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| regXboi | armax: that is on the list *eventually* | 14:47 |
| salv-orl_ | it must be because he caused it with some clumsy db op he added ;) | 14:47 |
| ajo | armax , I think you guys handled gate failures faster than my wake up time, everytime I was up things were handled | 14:47 |
| * regXboi just tagged 1513782 as loadimpact | 14:47 | |
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| armax | I already did ;) | 14:48 |
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| armax | ajo: anything else? | 14:48 |
| armax | the torch is with garyk1 this week | 14:49 |
| armax | any volunteer for next week? | 14:49 |
| rossella_s | armax, me! | 14:49 |
| ajo | I think garyk1 spotted a couple of bugs, garyk1 , did I name all? | 14:49 |
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| armax | rossella_s: super | 14:49 |
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| wwriverrat | armax: Ref “competing proposal”: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/234541/ targeting our RFE: https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/1457986 | 14:49 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1457986 in neutron "RFE: Need API to provide network IP allocation counts" [Wishlist,In progress] - Assigned to David Bingham (wwriverrat) | 14:49 |
| armax | wwriverrat: can we take this offline, please? | 14:49 |
| garyk1 | armax: ack. | 14:49 |
| armax | wwriverrat: it feels like you’re simply hijacking the meeting | 14:50 |
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| ajo | armax : I think we're done with the important ones I'm aware of | 14:50 |
| armax | ajo: ok, cool | 14:50 |
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| regXboi | wow - where does the time go | 14:50 |
| armax | regXboi: indeed | 14:51 |
| ajo | sorry: https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/1514810 (noted by garyk1 ) | 14:51 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1514810 in neutron "Turning on 'enable_dhcp' on subnet update cause request failure for pluggable IPAM" [Medium,New] - Assigned to Pavel Bondar (pasha117) | 14:51 |
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| ajo | but I think carl_baldwin is already on top of it | 14:51 |
| armax | ajo: right, the assigned ones are not the ones that worry me | 14:51 |
| armax | :) | 14:51 |
| armax | anyhow | 14:51 |
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| ajo | correct | 14:52 |
| armax | emagana is not here so le’ts skip the docs section and go straight to the open discussion one | 14:52 |
| armax | #topic Open Discussion | 14:52 |
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| armax | there are two topics of which one seems already handled | 14:52 |
| armax | https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/1507776 | 14:53 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1507776 in neutron "Wrong OVS flows created for new networks" [High,Fix committed] - Assigned to YAMAMOTO Takashi (yamamoto) | 14:53 |
| armax | claudiub: ping? | 14:53 |
| claudiub | pong | 14:53 |
| armax | you raised this for the neutron meeting? | 14:53 |
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| armax | what’s there to be discussed? | 14:53 |
| claudiub | that was weeks ago. | 14:53 |
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| claudiub | before the summit, i think. | 14:54 |
| armax | oh, ack | 14:54 |
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| armax | it’s left over then? | 14:54 |
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| claudiub | sorry, I did not get that | 14:54 |
| armax | claudiub: never mind | 14:54 |
| armax | claudiub: thanks | 14:54 |
| claudiub | np. :) | 14:54 |
| amotoki | it seems we need to change the title to "On Demand Agenda for <date>". | 14:54 |
| ajo | yamamoto++ claudiub++ | 14:54 |
| xgerman | amotoki +1 | 14:55 |
| armax | amotoki: I’ll fix that | 14:55 |
| armax | btw the other, I am sure more current one, was the request to consider the flavors service plugin be enabled by default | 14:55 |
| armax | so that we can test it in the gate on a continuous basis | 14:56 |
| ajo | armax , I had a talk with the nova PTL about port flavors, he asked me to sync with you on this. | 14:56 |
| ajo | he found it interesting in regards making nova-scheduler aware of neutron stuff | 14:56 |
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| armax | ajo: I talked to him about last week | 14:57 |
| ajo | its a long TL;DR to topic, so I'll probably translate it into an RFE, but he asked me to sync with you | 14:57 |
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| ajo | " long TL;DR to topic" .... wow ':D | 14:57 |
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| ajo | I guess we can sync offline | 14:58 |
| xgerman | ok, so can we reach a consensus if flavors should be enabled by default or not? | 14:58 |
| armax | ajo: let’s take this offline, but the idea is worth exploring especially if that helps addressing a large set of use cases that involve unstructured port bindings | 14:58 |
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| ajo | (sorry for deviating the topic) | 14:58 |
| armax | xgerman: yes | 14:58 |
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| armax | anyone with an opinion? | 14:59 |
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| armax | we have 1 min left? | 14:59 |
| xgerman | #startvote? | 14:59 |
| openstack | Only the meeting chair may start a vote. | 14:59 |
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| armax | we should take that to the ML, I guess | 14:59 |
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| armax | I’ll end the meeting now and give you a few secs back | 15:00 |
| armax | #endmeeting | 15:00 |
| ajo | I see no reason for not enabling flavors by default | 15:00 |
| armax | bye | 15:00 |
| regXboi | aloha | 15:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 15:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Nov 17 15:00:06 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 15:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/networking/2015/networking.2015-11-17-14.00.html | 15:00 |
| xgerman | bye | 15:00 |
| mestery | aloha | 15:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/networking/2015/networking.2015-11-17-14.00.txt | 15:00 |
| mhickey | bye | 15:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/networking/2015/networking.2015-11-17-14.00.log.html | 15:00 |
| yamamoto | good night | 15:00 |
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| obondarev | bye | 15:00 |
| hichihara | bye | 15:00 |
| akamyshnikova | bye | 15:00 |
| ajo | o/ | 15:00 |
| ajo | gn yamamoto ;) | 15:00 |
| amuller | Now I know I'm 1 hour late | 15:00 |
| hoangcx | bye | 15:00 |
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| armax | #startmeeting neutron_drivers | 15:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Nov 17 15:00:40 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is armax. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 15:00 |
| mestery | amuller: lol :) | 15:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 15:00 |
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| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: neutron_drivers)" | 15:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'neutron_drivers' | 15:00 |
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| carl_baldwin | o/ | 15:00 |
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| armax | mestery, amotoki, kevinbenton, carl_baldwin, HenryG ping? | 15:00 |
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| HenryG | yo | 15:01 |
| amotoki | o/ | 15:01 |
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| * mestery waves at armax | 15:01 | |
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| amuller | might as well stay and lurk :) | 15:02 |
| * ajo lurks | 15:02 | |
| armax | amuller: indeed | 15:02 |
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| * regXboi lurks as well | 15:02 | |
| armax | https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bugs?field.status%3Alist=TRIAGED&field.tag=rfe | 15:02 |
| * regXboi asks amuller where the lurking corner is | 15:02 | |
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| amuller | regXboi: on your left behind the water cool | 15:02 |
| armax | we finished last week with bug #1513144 | 15:03 |
| openstack | bug 1513144 in neutron "Allow admin to mark agents down" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1513144 - Assigned to Carlos Goncalves (cgoncalves) | 15:03 |
| armax | the submitter never came back | 15:03 |
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| armax | I am saying let’s mark this incomplete and move on | 15:03 |
| amotoki | ah.. I forgot to comment more. | 15:03 |
| amotoki | will follow up it after the meeting. | 15:03 |
| mestery | armax: ++ | 15:04 |
| amotoki | marking this incomplete now sounds reasonable to me. | 15:04 |
| carl_baldwin | +1 | 15:05 |
| armax | bug 1472704 | 15:05 |
| openstack | bug 1472704 in neutron "Support L3-only networking" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1472704 - Assigned to Neil Jerram (neil-jerram) | 15:05 |
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| armax | carl_baldwin: I am assuming the matching spec is the one you’re proposing, right? | 15:05 |
| armax | or no? | 15:05 |
| carl_baldwin | armax: That is Neil's but we're working to unify. | 15:06 |
| * regXboi goes to get a snack and some cold caffeine | 15:06 | |
| armax | carl_baldwin: so it should match this one, https://blueprints.launchpad.net/neutron/+spec/routed-networks | 15:06 |
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| * carl_baldwin looks for the other rfe. | 15:06 | |
| garyk1 | sorry i need to run | 15:06 |
| mestery | bye garyk1 | 15:06 |
| armax | carl_baldwin: the other one was ‘segments’ | 15:06 |
| armax | carl_baldwin: I think | 15:07 |
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| carl_baldwin | armax: It all started here: https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/1458890 | 15:07 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1458890 in neutron "Add segment support to Neutron" [Wishlist,Triaged] | 15:07 |
| carl_baldwin | My spec is https://review.openstack.org/#/c/225384 | 15:08 |
| carl_baldwin | Trying to unify mine with the one from neiljerram_bb | 15:08 |
| armax | right | 15:08 |
| carl_baldwin | I will look for him today and hopefully get some updates to get them in line. | 15:09 |
| armax | carl_baldwin: any progress on the one from neil? | 15:09 |
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| armax | carl_baldwin: I’d rather track everything with one bug report/spec if at all possible | 15:09 |
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| armax | carl_baldwin: unless the use cases are totally different | 15:09 |
| armax | I’ll follow up on this one | 15:10 |
| carl_baldwin | armax: ack That is where we were headed. | 15:10 |
| cgoncalves | Hi. on bug 1513144, apologies but I still need to catch-up on the comments yet. apologies | 15:10 |
| openstack | bug 1513144 in neutron "Allow admin to mark agents down" [Wishlist,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1513144 | 15:10 |
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| armax | cgoncalves: please do | 15:10 |
| armax | and we’ll get back to you | 15:10 |
| armax | bug 1512666 | 15:10 |
| openstack | bug 1512666 in neutron " Allow for per-subnet/network dhcp options" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1512666 - Assigned to Sam Betts (sambetts) | 15:10 |
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| cgoncalves | armax: thanks. it's been a crazy week last week :/ | 15:11 |
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| armax | cgoncalves: for everybody, I can assure oyu | 15:11 |
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| armax | bug #1512666 seems trivial enough | 15:11 |
| armax | carl_baldwin, ajo: do you happen to know if dnsmasq provides what we need? | 15:12 |
| carl_baldwin | armax: I can't say without looking through dnsmasq docs. | 15:12 |
| * ajo reads, was in deep talk with obondarev about migrations | 15:12 | |
| amotoki_ | one question is how we can distinguish a port which we need to apply the default dhcp options. | 15:13 |
| ajo | armax , carl_baldwin , I will look at the dnsmasq config options too | 15:13 |
| armax | amotoki_: I thought that port options take precedence | 15:13 |
| ajo | I Can't recall something like that, but I don't know it all | 15:13 |
| ajo | (about dnsmasq) | 15:13 |
| amotoki_ | extra_dhcp_opts is mainly used for ironic ports but not all ports are such ports. | 15:13 |
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| amotoki | but as RFE it is a reasonable request. | 15:14 |
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| armax | amotoki: agreed | 15:14 |
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| armax | amotoki: I wonder who could help to work on that | 15:15 |
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| amotoki | i can. I know ironic use cases and supported the inital extra dhcp opts work. | 15:15 |
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| amotoki | I am not hosting any blueprints. | 15:16 |
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| ajo | armax , I think dnsmasq provides what they're looking for, because they're already using dnsmasq | 15:16 |
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| armax | amotoki: cool | 15:17 |
| ajo | it worries me how would we handle the allocation of new ips for unknown macs | 15:17 |
| ajo | carl_baldwin , any thought on that? | 15:18 |
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| armax | ajo: agreed | 15:18 |
| carl_baldwin | ajo It was my concern too but I haven't groked it enough to have further thoughts. | 15:18 |
| ajo | neither me, | 15:18 |
| armax | it sounds like we may want a spec for this, as there might be implicit assumptions that we’re overlooking here | 15:18 |
| armax | we don’t want to start assigning dhcp addresses all over the place | 15:19 |
| carl_baldwin | ++ | 15:19 |
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| armax | ok | 15:19 |
| amotoki | agree | 15:19 |
| ajo | that could even mean, we may need to autodiscover new ports | 15:19 |
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| ajo | better to have a spec, I agree | 15:20 |
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| armax | ok, I’ll take care of it | 15:20 |
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| armax | next one | 15:20 |
| armax | bug #1492714 | 15:20 |
| openstack | bug 1492714 in neutron "RFE: Pure Python driven Linux network configuration" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1492714 - Assigned to Li Ma (nick-ma-z) | 15:20 |
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| mestery | armax: I think that one is dependent on the privsep work | 15:20 |
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| mestery | And I know regXboi was looking to track that work which gus is doing | 15:21 |
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| regXboi | yes, this is dependent on privsep | 15:21 |
| armax | right, it sounds like we all want this to happen | 15:21 |
| * regXboi looking where that is right now | 15:21 | |
| armax | but what it takes, I am not 100% sure | 15:21 |
| HenryG | At the summit gus said he would soon be proposing patches to neutron | 15:21 |
| HenryG | He said the oslo part is done (I think) | 15:22 |
| mestery | HenryG: Wow, that's pretty awesome if it's done. | 15:22 |
| salv-orl_ | I don't think privsep is low-effort, but its development is probably mostly orthogonal. From what I gather it should not break anything... | 15:22 |
| salv-orl_ | ...until it's plugged in of course! | 15:22 |
| regXboi | yes: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/238333/ merged last week | 15:22 |
| mestery | salv-orl_: lol :) | 15:22 |
| regXboi | current privsep patch is https://review.openstack.org/#/c/244984/ | 15:23 |
| ajo | I heard of a similar proposal which could be interesting | 15:23 |
| ajo | I think it was apuimedon's | 15:23 |
| ajo | moving the agents into the networking cgroup | 15:23 |
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| anteaya | well gus' work is also critical to nova, so if someone were to help his efforts I don't think he would say no | 15:23 |
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| ajo | so they have access to all networking related functions as-root | 15:23 |
| mestery | ajo: With privsep, is that necessary still? | 15:24 |
| ajo | mestery I guess it's an alternative to privsep | 15:24 |
| ajo | or a separated thread can be moved into the cgroup | 15:24 |
| ajo | it's an alternative | 15:24 |
| mestery | ajo: Right | 15:24 |
| regXboi | is it an alternative in oslo? | 15:24 |
| regXboi | or is it project specific | 15:24 |
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| ajo | I think, it's something privsep is going to leverage :) | 15:25 |
| ajo | sorry for the noise | 15:25 |
| mestery | ajo: No noise, it's good to hear these other approaches too. | 15:25 |
| mestery | ajo: Maybe it's worth commenting in the bug about this and adding apuimedon to it as well? | 15:26 |
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| salv-orl_ | ajo: your punishment would be to contribute the work for assigning operations to cgroups rahter than run everything as root in oslo.privsep | 15:26 |
| ajo | mestery : yes, doing | 15:26 |
| mestery | sweet, thanks ajo | 15:26 |
| ajo | salv-orl_ : lol :) I Will pass the punishment to apuimedon :D | 15:26 |
| ajo | but I'd be glad to help | 15:26 |
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| salv-orl_ | ajo: we're not in the army. if we were the army that would be the way to go | 15:27 |
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| regXboi | I see 1492714 as another step along the way to getting rid of shell | 15:28 |
| armax | either way it sounds like this might be tricky to tackle in the mitaka timeframe | 15:28 |
| regXboi | which is a Good Thing (TM) imho | 15:28 |
| regXboi | armax: ++ | 15:28 |
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| armax | ok, let’s move next, I’ll capture details on this conversation later | 15:30 |
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| armax | bug #1512864 | 15:31 |
| openstack | bug 1512864 in neutron "Application Metrics for Neutron" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1512864 | 15:31 |
| regXboi | armax: this needs to go to oslo | 15:31 |
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| mestery | regXboi: That was easy :) | 15:31 |
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| regXboi | :) | 15:32 |
| armax | you mean bug 1512864? | 15:32 |
| regXboi | armax: yes | 15:32 |
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| regXboi | that should be done across all of openstack, not just neutron | 15:32 |
| mestery | regXboi: I suggest adding oslo to the affected projects then | 15:32 |
| ajo | IMO, we better integrate with osprofiler first | 15:32 |
| regXboi | mestery: agreed | 15:32 |
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| ajo | it does not cover continous profiling as they suggest, btw.. | 15:32 |
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| armax | regXboi: ok, that makes sense | 15:33 |
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| ajo | yeah, and if we introduce profiling to openstack services, better to have something homogenous across services | 15:33 |
| regXboi | ajo: yes that is something osprofiling needs | 15:33 |
| ajo | that's a good point regXboi | 15:33 |
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| armax | and we could easily pull in stuff from oslo as it matures | 15:33 |
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| regXboi | armax: you want to change the bug or should I? | 15:33 |
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| salv-orl_ | ajo: do we need to integrate with osprofiler? I usually just apply patches when I need to take measures and then collect data, I've honestly not yet seen a project with profiling in-tree | 15:33 |
| armax | regXboi: change how? target oslo you mean? | 15:34 |
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| regXboi | armax: target oslo and s/neutron/openstack/ in the title | 15:34 |
| ajo | salv-orl_ , I found it very interesting to debug RPC and flows between projects | 15:34 |
| armax | regXboi: well | 15:34 |
| armax | regXboi: the problem is: | 15:34 |
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| regXboi | salv-orl_: you *HAVE* to have profiling in tree if you are going to do ci/cd on performance | 15:34 |
| salv-orl_ | is "target oslo" needed because "all projects need it so there must be something for oslo too?" | 15:34 |
| armax | regXboi: is the submitter even willing to work with oslo? | 15:34 |
| ajo | salv-orl_ : good for profiling and reverse engineering for openstack newbiews (or outdated-oldbies..) | 15:34 |
| armax | it may remain targeted and idle for ever | 15:35 |
| regXboi | armax: the submitter is one of my co-workers - I can have a discussion with them to find out | 15:35 |
| armax | regXboi: ok, let’s find out first also where the oslo project is at | 15:35 |
| salv-orl_ | regXboi: as long as you can give me a way to skip execution of profiling code that's fine. | 15:35 |
| regXboi | salv-orl_: ++++++++ | 15:35 |
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| ajo | salv-orl_ : +100 | 15:35 |
| armax | regXboi: it’d be tempted that we can simply say: this doesn’t belong to neutron and as such it’s ‘won’t fix’ in the current form | 15:36 |
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| armax | regXboi: let’s capture the details of this conversation and we’ll take it from there | 15:36 |
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| regXboi | armax: let me try to reach out today and have a conversation - there is a TZ differential and I'm driving up mestery's way in the afternoon/evening so that's best | 15:37 |
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| armax | regXboi: ok, no worries | 15:37 |
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| armax | does anyone fancy start going through the ‘confirmed’ list or shall we call it done, we’ll have a first pass offline and reconvene in a week? | 15:38 |
| mestery | My vote: Offline and reconvene in a week | 15:38 |
| HenryG | +1 | 15:38 |
| armax | ok, let’s make sure that we have a good triaged pipeline then | 15:38 |
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| regXboi | what about the new list? | 15:38 |
| armax | I count on all of you | 15:38 |
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| armax | regXboi: we’ll have a pass too | 15:39 |
| mestery | We won't let you down armax | 15:39 |
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| armax | mestery: I am sure | 15:39 |
| carl_baldwin | ++ | 15:39 |
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| mestery | armax: Thanks for waking up early to run these back-to-back meetings, we all appreciate yoru leadership! | 15:39 |
| armax | ok, let’s go back at pounding on the keyboards | 15:40 |
| armax | mestery: thanks for the encouragement but I am regretting this already :) | 15:40 |
| mestery | lol | 15:40 |
| amotoki | :-) | 15:40 |
| armax | have a good tuesday everbody | 15:40 |
| regXboi | armax: you can always move the meeting :) | 15:40 |
| mestery | ++, thanks armax, you have a good day too! | 15:40 |
| armax | or wednesday wherever you are | 15:40 |
| armax | #endmeeting | 15:40 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 15:41 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Nov 17 15:40:59 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 15:41 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_drivers/2015/neutron_drivers.2015-11-17-15.00.html | 15:41 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_drivers/2015/neutron_drivers.2015-11-17-15.00.txt | 15:41 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_drivers/2015/neutron_drivers.2015-11-17-15.00.log.html | 15:41 |
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| salv-orl_ | adieuuu | 15:41 |
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| ZZelle | byebye | 15:44 |
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| IlyaG | Hi guys - do you know the deadline for the 3rd party Cinder drives to be merged into Mitaka? | 16:13 |
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| breitz | IlyaG: you probably wanted to ask this in #openstack-cinder. ;-) | 16:24 |
| breitz | http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2015-November/078215.html | 16:24 |
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| stevemar_ | o/ | 17:58 |
| davechen | o/ | 17:58 |
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| dstanek | o/ | 17:59 |
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| gyee | \o | 17:59 |
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| stevemar_ | courtesy ping for ajayaa, amakarov, ayoung, breton, browne, davechen, david8hu, dolphm, dstanek, ericksonsantos, geoffarnold, gyee, henrynash, hogepodge, htruta, jamielennox, joesavak, lbragstad, lhcheng, marekd, morganfainberg, nkinder, raildo, rodrigods, roxanaghe, samueldmq, shaleh, stevemar, tsymanczyk, topol, vivekd, wanghong, claudiub, rderose, samleon, xek | 17:59 |
| davechen | \o again | 17:59 |
| ayoung | \me here | 18:00 |
| lbragstad | stevemar_ o/ | 18:00 |
| htruta | o/ | 18:00 |
| dstanek | here | 18:00 |
| * ayoung here | 18:00 | |
| lhcheng | o/ | 18:00 |
| marekd | me here | 18:00 |
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| david8hu | \o | 18:00 |
| stevemar_ | let's get going! | 18:00 |
| stevemar_ | #startmeeting keystone | 18:00 |
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| openstack | Meeting started Tue Nov 17 18:00:34 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is stevemar_. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 18:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 18:00 |
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| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'keystone' | 18:00 |
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| stevemar_ | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/KeystoneMeeting | 18:00 |
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| henrynash | hi | 18:00 |
| * shaleh waves | 18:01 | |
| stevemar_ | henrynash: you had to put the biggest item as #1 | 18:01 |
| henrynash | moi? | 18:01 |
| stevemar_ | #topic HMT Phase 1 & Phase 2 | 18:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "HMT Phase 1 & Phase 2 (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:01 | |
| stevemar_ | henrynash: go! | 18:01 |
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| henrynash | ok, so this is a follow on from the discussion at the summit | 18:01 |
| henrynash | we agreed Phase 1 | 18:01 |
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| henrynash | (store domains as projects, bt only top level domains) | 18:01 |
| samueldmq | hi | 18:01 |
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| xek | o/ | 18:02 |
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| henrynash | Phase 2 is the actual resller functionality | 18:02 |
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| ayoung | So long as domain names are globally unique, it does not mattewhere they are in the tree | 18:02 |
| henrynash | request from Morgan was….go see if we can make federation cover this use case | 18:02 |
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| henrynash | and as per my mail to the list (http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2015-October/078063.html) | 18:02 |
| henrynash | …this doesn’t really cut it | 18:03 |
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| henrynash | so proposal is (as ayoung just stated) | 18:03 |
| stevemar_ | hmm, morgan seems to be afk | 18:03 |
| ayoung | I still think the uniqueness thing is going to be an issue | 18:03 |
| marekd | henrynash: how long will Phase 1 take? | 18:03 |
| htruta | marekd: what do you mean by long? | 18:04 |
| henrynash | so we ahd all the code for that ready for Liberty | 18:04 |
| marekd | htruta: days, months | 18:04 |
| marekd | ayoung: domains unique globally? | 18:04 |
| gyee | marekd, 21 story points | 18:04 |
| amakarov | hey all! | 18:04 |
| htruta | marekd: it is already implemented. how long it takes depend on reviews | 18:04 |
| henrynash | and is ready for review now….it;s in pretty good shape haveing been beaten about | 18:04 |
| ayoung | marekd, yes | 18:04 |
| henrynash | ayoung: on uniquness | 18:04 |
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| ayoung | marekd, if I want to "squat" on the domain name "CERN" can I cretea domain under my project with that name? | 18:04 |
| marekd | ayoung: so yes...there will be a problem :-) | 18:05 |
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| henrynash | 1) Yes, all domains names stay unique | 18:05 |
| marekd | unless we use some existing systems like DNS :P | 18:05 |
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| VictimOfCulture | http://tomatobubble.com/economist_magazine_cover.html | 18:05 |
| stevemar_ | ignore ^ | 18:06 |
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| htruta | lol | 18:06 |
| henrynash | 2) I also believe we can avoid the origional issue of there being two child projects of teh same name (with one being a reguakr project, one being a domain)…we can jsut ensure that is not allowed…and you can’t get into that issue via migration | 18:06 |
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| henrynash | SO | 18:06 |
| henrynash | proposal to team is | 18:06 |
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| henrynash | Use domains for HMT…but with the restrictions of: | 18:07 |
| henrynash | 1) all domain names unique | 18:07 |
| henrynash | 2) NO inheritance across domains…i.e. we are just using domain parent as an indiactor of owner | 18:07 |
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| henrynash | This is as the oriinal spec was written and agreed for Liberty | 18:08 |
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| henrynash | questions: ? | 18:09 |
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| davechen | what's the domain parent comes from if no inheritance is allowed? | 18:09 |
| stevemar_ | is this the spec? http://specs.openstack.org/openstack/keystone-specs/specs/backlog/reseller.html | 18:09 |
| bknudson_ | inheritance of what? | 18:09 |
| htruta | and this is already implemented | 18:09 |
| htruta | stevemar_: yes | 18:09 |
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| gyee | role assignment inheritance? | 18:10 |
| bknudson_ | domain is anywhere in the tree? | 18:10 |
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| henrynash | davechen: parent is just ownership, where you inherite assignments down the tree is a different matter | 18:10 |
| htruta | lots of things changed since the spec... maybe we need to update it | 18:10 |
| henrynash | bknduson_: only at top….parent of a domin must be another domai | 18:10 |
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| htruta | stevemar_: but if it helps, henrynash has already updated the api | 18:10 |
| bknudson_ | ok, domain parent can't be a project | 18:10 |
| henrynash | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/200624/ | 18:11 |
| henrynash | bknduson_: true | 18:11 |
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| ayoung | henrynash, I don't like it | 18:11 |
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| henrynash | ayoung: :-) | 18:11 |
| ayoung | it violates the scope fo project assignments | 18:11 |
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| bknudson_ | and we're still doing a domain is a special type of project? | 18:11 |
| ayoung | the global naming thing really complicates issues | 18:11 |
| henrynash | bknudson_: yes, that’s wjhat phase 1 is | 18:12 |
| ayoung | think from an RBAC perspective | 18:12 |
| ayoung | what would you need to have as a role in order to create a domain under a project? | 18:12 |
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| gyee | we don't support creating a domain under a project | 18:13 |
| henrynash | bkundson_: (so strictly the parent of a project acting as a domin must be another poject acting as a domain) | 18:13 |
| henrynash | ayoung: hu? we don’t allow that | 18:13 |
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| ayoung | henrynash, so domains not under a project? Nested domains still problematic. | 18:13 |
| davechen | gyee: what's about he domain is actually a project, project inheritence is allowed, right? | 18:14 |
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| htruta | ayoung: projects acting as domains only under other projects that act as domains | 18:14 |
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| gyee | davechen, we support D -> D -> D but not D -> P -> D | 18:14 |
| ayoung | henrynash, so, this is why I said at one point "put domains only yunder other domains, and then give an approach for nesting the names" | 18:14 |
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| ayoung | henrynash, let me write it up in email and I think I can make it clearer | 18:15 |
| henrynash | ayoung: we are putting domain under other domains… | 18:15 |
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| davechen | gyee: when the reseller is done, that's still not possible? | 18:15 |
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| xek | Ok, so I already briefly talked with stevemar_ at the summit about my idea to introduce a unit test for checking for incompatible sql db changes | 18:15 |
| ayoung | henrynash, domains under domains will only work with a DNS style naming | 18:15 |
| xek | ^ ignore that | 18:15 |
| henrynash | ayoung: what’s DNS got to do with it? | 18:16 |
| ayoung | henrynash, unique naming | 18:16 |
| htruta | ayoung: that might be our next steps... to remove the uniquness of domain name across the cloud | 18:16 |
| ayoung | "coke" vs "pepsi" | 18:16 |
| ayoung | pepsi should not be able to create a domain named "coke" | 18:16 |
| gyee | davechen, no, we can't have D -> P -> D or this is going to be a bloody mess | 18:16 |
| gyee | not that it hasn't already | 18:16 |
| ayoung | only ["pepsi","coke"] etc | 18:16 |
| henrynash | ayoung: we can always look to relax that rule later | 18:17 |
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| stevemar_ | i think the take away here is we need to better explain the problem and proposed solution | 18:17 |
| henrynash | ayoung: let’s not fix everything at once! | 18:17 |
| ayoung | henrynash, relax what rule? We can't allow nesting without breaking things at the policy level | 18:18 |
| gyee | stevemar_, ++, still a bunch of mysteries :) | 18:18 |
| stevemar_ | theres a lot of moving parts here | 18:18 |
| stevemar_ | yeah, i'm having trouble keeping track of it all | 18:18 |
| ayoung | henrynash, let me write it up..too much to explain here | 18:18 |
| marekd | henrynash: so,you don't have a solution for domain uniqieness? | 18:18 |
| marekd | henrynash: i thought you had said you have | 18:18 |
| henrynash | marekd: I didn;t try and solve that…since people (at the summit) demanded that domains sat unique! | 18:19 |
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| marekd | henrynash: ok | 18:19 |
| samueldmq | stevemar_: ++ me too | 18:19 |
| xek | I think updating the spec is a good idea | 18:19 |
| marekd | henrynash: no, wait...'sat unique' ? | 18:19 |
| gyee | henrynash, domains has to be unique, or we'll need to introduce Keystone V4 | 18:19 |
| henrynash | (stay unique) | 18:19 |
| marekd | henrynash: what's that mean? | 18:19 |
| ayoung | sit and stay sitting | 18:19 |
| marekd | ok | 18:19 |
| henrynash | Ok, so sounds like we need a new spec? | 18:20 |
| samueldmq | for resellet in general we should be moving in small steps; I think we should get reseller, but: i) domains only under domains and ii) it should be allowed to get project scoped tokens in is-domain projects, only is-domain-project scoped tokens | 18:20 |
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| ayoung | henrynash, this is a reseller issue. I think that requesting a new domain should be workflow, but not subject to HMT....its a superblock, not a mountpoint | 18:20 |
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| stevemar_ | henrynash: not necessarily a new spec | 18:21 |
| stevemar_ | damn, i'll settle for a paste or an email | 18:21 |
| stevemar_ | update the exisitng backlog spec | 18:21 |
| stevemar_ | something that clears things up | 18:21 |
| henrynash | so teh exiisting spec mixes pahse 1 and phase 2 | 18:21 |
| samueldmq | henrynash: so we need to first fix that | 18:22 |
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| stevemar_ | i have no problem ripping the completed parts of phase1 from the backspec and marking them as completed | 18:22 |
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| topol | o/ | 18:23 |
| stevemar_ | we gotta keep chugging along, i'll ping you after the meeting henrynash | 18:23 |
| henrynash | Ok, so I’ll write up teh propased pahse 2 solution…maybe as a spec | 18:23 |
| stevemar_ | henrynash: we can figure out the logistics together | 18:23 |
| henrynash | ok, I yield :-) | 18:23 |
| stevemar_ | :) | 18:23 |
| stevemar_ | #topic New reno-based process for release notes | 18:23 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "New reno-based process for release notes (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:23 | |
| stevemar_ | bknudson_: you're up! | 18:23 |
| bknudson_ | so openstack has a new tool for doing release notes | 18:24 |
| bknudson_ | reno | 18:24 |
| bknudson_ | instead of doing release notes on the wiki at the end of the release we can propose release notes with the patch | 18:24 |
| bknudson_ | and the proposal is that we use this new approach | 18:24 |
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| gyee | bknudson_, link? | 18:25 |
| bknudson_ | which means a change to how we do reviews -- essentially if release notes for the change are required then we need to make sure they're included | 18:25 |
| marekd | bknudson_: i think it's still author's responsibility | 18:25 |
| breton_ | and reviewers' | 18:26 |
| davechen | what's kind of thing should include release notes in the patchset? | 18:26 |
| stevemar_ | davechen: yes | 18:26 |
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| breton_ | -1 if you think it should be in release notes | 18:26 |
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| gyee | http://docs.openstack.org/developer/reno/ | 18:26 |
| henrynash | so I think this is great…and in fact I’ve already written my first one…but wasn’t sure on teh scope of each RN….is it just that one feature? you are implementing (see https://review.openstack.org/#/c/242853/14/releasenotes/notes/Assignment_V9_driver-c22be069f7baccb0.yaml) | 18:26 |
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| AJaeger | For output, see http://docs.openstack.org/releasenotes/neutron/ (good initial content) or http://docs.openstack.org/releasenotes/keystone (empty) | 18:26 |
| stevemar_ | there's one review in particular that says when to add stuff: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/246455/ | 18:26 |
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| xek | davechen, incompatible config changes is one example | 18:26 |
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| davechen | stevemar_: i didnt't get it. | 18:27 |
| bknudson_ | #link http://docs.openstack.org/developer/keystone/developing.html#release-notes | 18:27 |
| stevemar_ | i've proposed our liberty release notes here: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/246145/ stable-cores please review :) | 18:27 |
| bknudson_ | our developer guidelines have a section saying what the changes are that should have release notes | 18:28 |
| stevemar_ | davechen: oops, it says so here https://review.openstack.org/#/c/246455/ | 18:28 |
| davechen | cool, thanks, check it out later. | 18:28 |
| bknudson_ | Also, I started an etherpad with the changes that have already merged and should have release notes: https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/keystone-mitaka-release-notes | 18:28 |
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| stevemar_ | bknudson_: oh nice | 18:29 |
| henrynash | bkundson_:, stevemar_: but it sill isn’t clear to me which section you fill out in the yaml doc for your partiuclar change…there’s one RN doc per change? | 18:29 |
| stevemar_ | RN? | 18:29 |
| stevemar_ | oh release note | 18:29 |
| henrynash | or do you update a release RN | 18:29 |
| henrynash | i.e. teh Mitaka RN? | 18:30 |
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| bknudson_ | we just want the release notes to look right by the time we're at the end of the release. | 18:30 |
| stevemar_ | henrynash: one release note per bug/blueprint/backwards incompatible thing | 18:30 |
| bknudson_ | I don't think it has to be one release note per patch | 18:30 |
| bknudson_ | you could update an existing release note if you're changing something | 18:30 |
| stevemar_ | not ALL bugs need release notes, just if they impact operators | 18:30 |
| dolphm | Not all bugs deserve release notes | 18:30 |
| stevemar_ | dolphm: thanks :) | 18:30 |
| samueldmq | orend-users, etc | 18:31 |
| henrynash | sure, get that…. | 18:31 |
| samueldmq | or* | 18:31 |
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| dolphm | if you care about ALL bugs, refer to LP | 18:31 |
| bknudson_ | hopefully the guidelines here make it clear that not all bugs require a patch : http://docs.openstack.org/developer/keystone/developing.html#release-notes | 18:31 |
| bknudson_ | require a release note | 18:31 |
| stevemar_ | henrynash: so yeah, just do: reno new <bug/bp>, then fill in the section that matters | 18:31 |
| AJaeger | henrynash: if you have a series of changes, add the release note to the last one that "finishes" the implementation. | 18:31 |
| bknudson_ | the only bugs the guidelines say need a release note are security bugs. | 18:31 |
| davechen | so, i may say it's a little subjective, but good to go. | 18:32 |
| stevemar_ | the build process lumps the sections together, so all "features" are together and all "upgrades" are together | 18:32 |
| henrynash | AJaegar: actually no, I build the release note incremental as my patches add changes | 18:32 |
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| henrynash | stevemar_: ahh, right THAT was my question…how doe sthat happen | 18:32 |
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| stevemar_ | henrynash: magic :) | 18:32 |
| stevemar_ | specifically build-sphinx-magic | 18:33 |
| stevemar_ | it's a branch off of sorcery | 18:33 |
| AJaeger | henrynash: that's another option of doing it ;) | 18:33 |
| henrynash | but then you must wriet your text assuming they are distributed amongst other RNs | 18:33 |
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| henrynash | which i didn’t do | 18:33 |
| stevemar_ | henrynash: right | 18:34 |
| stevemar_ | henrynash: looking at your patch, i would remove the "Nones" | 18:34 |
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| henrynash | ok | 18:34 |
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| henrynash | thx | 18:35 |
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| stevemar_ | henrynash: maybe look at https://github.com/openstack/neutron/tree/stable/liberty/releasenotes/notes and compare to http://docs.openstack.org/releasenotes/neutron/liberty.html | 18:35 |
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| henrynash | perfect! | 18:35 |
| stevemar_ | ^ should make it clear how the build will look like | 18:35 |
| stevemar_ | \o/ | 18:35 |
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| bknudson_ | pretty | 18:36 |
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| henrynash | yep, absolutley answerits it. | 18:36 |
| stevemar_ | alright | 18:36 |
| stevemar_ | #topic Online Schema Migration | 18:36 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Online Schema Migration (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:36 | |
| xek | ok, that's me | 18:36 |
| henrynash | (henry can’t type straight anyway) | 18:36 |
| stevemar_ | hi xek! | 18:36 |
| xek | the idea is to introduce a unit test for checking for incompatible sql db changes | 18:36 |
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| xek | after the unit test is merged, it's easy for reviewers to spot any incompatibilities | 18:36 |
| breton_ | incompatible with what? | 18:37 |
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| xek | incopatible with previous versions | 18:37 |
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| xek | so an upgrade without downtime is possible | 18:37 |
| xek | breton suggested a spec is needed, so I made one | 18:37 |
| bknudson_ | we're never had this requirement before | 18:37 |
| xek | I think it's a good idea to get more eyeballs on the issue | 18:37 |
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| bknudson_ | and I don't see how it could catch any incompatibility | 18:38 |
| bknudson_ | because we could just change the way we interpret a field | 18:38 |
| xek | well it just checks for drops and alters | 18:38 |
| davechen | xek: how we know it's incompatiblity with previous versions? | 18:38 |
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| bknudson_ | we can never drop a table or column? | 18:38 |
| bknudson_ | the tables will just keep getting wider and wider | 18:38 |
| xek | dropping a column or changing a name will obviously be incompatible with the previous sqlalchemy model | 18:39 |
| dstanek | is there a specific issue that this is trying to prevent? | 18:39 |
| xek | this limits what db changes one can make between releases | 18:39 |
| davechen | xek: but it's always what migration does. | 18:39 |
| xek | so a schema change, which previously took one release, can take 3 | 18:39 |
| bknudson_ | we should be able to drop a column if we've stopped using it for a release | 18:39 |
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| bknudson_ | Is there a spec proposed? | 18:40 |
| breton_ | as far as I understand, xek wants to be able to do "git checkout master; k-m db_sync;" and have no downtime | 18:40 |
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| xek | bknudson_, yes, https://review.openstack.org/#/c/245186/ | 18:40 |
| davechen | bknudson_: i think so, there is spec. | 18:40 |
| henrynash | xek: so what’s the goal, code upgrade withut simultaneious schema change, or schema upgrade without simultaneious code change? | 18:40 |
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| xek | partial schema change before upgrading the code, then both versions - the old one, and the new one running simultaneously | 18:41 |
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| lbragstad | so, the goal is to be able to update schema without having to restart database nodes, right? | 18:42 |
| davechen | the change looks like for rolling upgrade, and reduce the downtime? | 18:42 |
| henrynash | xek: ok, right so now we getting to the issue..so you can roll your update out across your OS deploymet | 18:42 |
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| bknudson_ | if we're going to do this then we should have tests for it. | 18:42 |
| xek | henrynash, yep | 18:42 |
| gyee | shouldn't this be a grenade requirement as oppose to service-specific? | 18:42 |
| xek | bknudson_, probably grenade multi-node tests | 18:42 |
| bknudson_ | as in, run tempest on stable keystone after migrating to master db | 18:42 |
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| bknudson_ | and maybe we could even have unit test for it somehow. | 18:44 |
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| lbragstad | wouldn't you have to test that you can use a service, update the api node, then update the db | 18:44 |
| shaleh | xek, have you tried it today to see how badly say kilo -> liberty went | 18:44 |
| bknudson_ | I hope we don't have to support new code with old db, too. | 18:44 |
| xek | shaleh, I checked that there were a couple of patches which dropped things | 18:44 |
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| xek | shaleh, that's why I want to start with Mitaka | 18:45 |
| lbragstad | bknudson_ wouldn't your api layer have to know how to deal with both versions of the schema before you can drop the old schema? | 18:45 |
| gyee | bknudon, I hope not :) | 18:45 |
| shaleh | xek, but have you tried to perform this style of upgrade and documented the failures? | 18:45 |
| bknudson_ | but we will have to support old code writing to db and new code using it. | 18:45 |
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| dstanek | xek: how do we add features is alter isn't allowed? | 18:45 |
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| bknudson_ | dstanek: alter column | 18:46 |
| xek | dstanek, you can add things, and drop them the next release | 18:46 |
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| lbragstad | xek but the api layer has logic that knows how to handle both cases of the schema | 18:46 |
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| samueldmq | so the idea is to deprecte the feature/db model vefore droping table/column whatever? | 18:46 |
| samueldmq | don't we do this already ? | 18:47 |
| marekd | i think not | 18:47 |
| dstanek | bknudson_: we have had columns altered in the last release (?) to support feature | 18:47 |
| dstanek | s | 18:47 |
| samueldmq | I think we do, I can't think of a thing we remove without deprecation | 18:47 |
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| xek | if we already do it the unit test will just be an additional hint for the code reviewers | 18:48 |
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| xek | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/241603/ - link to the unit test | 18:49 |
| bknudson_ | if this is what our users want then I think we should give it to them. | 18:49 |
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| lbragstad | xek have you talked to odyssey4me about this? | 18:49 |
| bknudson_ | a unit test is only the start of it | 18:49 |
| xek | lbragstad, not yet | 18:50 |
| shaleh | bknudson_, perhaps we do a dry run of this for mitaka and implement it fully in N? | 18:50 |
| lbragstad | xek he has a lot of the same ideas | 18:50 |
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| xek | lbragstad, I'll get in touch | 18:50 |
| lbragstad | shaleh bknudson_ I'd like to make some changes to the revocation_event table, we could try it there | 18:50 |
| lbragstad | xek you can find him in #openstack-ansible | 18:51 |
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| shaleh | I would like to see someone run the upgrade like xek suggests and document just how well (or not) it goes | 18:51 |
| bknudson_ | lbragstad: dropping and altering columns? | 18:51 |
| lbragstad | xek he wanted to discuss this today in the meeting, but is based in the uk | 18:51 |
| dstanek | to really support 0-downtime we have to deal with a multiple phase migration....i think i need to read the spec on this to understand it better | 18:51 |
| lbragstad | bknudson_ I want to remove the datetime format usage in sql | 18:52 |
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| bknudson_ | that's going to break everything | 18:52 |
| stevemar_ | xek: we're gonna have to continue in -keystone, i want to give davechen a few minutes | 18:52 |
| bknudson_ | you're going to need to do both for a release | 18:52 |
| davechen | ++ :) | 18:52 |
| xek | stevemar_, ok, I welcome any reviews | 18:52 |
| bknudson_ | both formats in separate columns | 18:52 |
| lbragstad | bknudson_ it will be a long running migration, yes | 18:52 |
| davechen | stevemar_: my topic is pretty light. | 18:52 |
| lbragstad | bknudson_ yeah, exactly | 18:52 |
| stevemar_ | #topic Should return the endpoints from endpoint_group when using "endpoint_filter.sql" as catalog's backend driver? | 18:53 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Should return the endpoints from endpoint_group when using "endpoint_filter.sql" as catalog's backend driver? (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:53 | |
| davechen | okay. | 18:53 |
| stevemar_ | davechen: what's up? | 18:53 |
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| davechen | i filed a bug there. | 18:53 |
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| davechen | i just found when using endpoint_filter.sql as the backend for catalog | 18:53 |
| stevemar_ | #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/keystone/+bug/1516469 | 18:53 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1516469 in OpenStack Identity (keystone) "endpoints not show correctly when using "endpoint_filter.sql" as catalog's backend driver" [Undecided,New] - Assigned to Dave Chen (wei-d-chen) | 18:53 |
| gyee | davechen, yes | 18:53 |
| davechen | gyee: yes? | 18:53 |
| davechen | yes for what? | 18:53 |
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| davechen | i am not sure whtether it's a bug or not | 18:54 |
| davechen | since I am not sure about the fearure implemented long time ago | 18:54 |
| gyee | that is a bug | 18:54 |
| davechen | but seem not many people use it. | 18:54 |
| gyee | we should be filtering the endpoints when the endpoint_filter.sql backend is used | 18:54 |
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| davechen | it's hanging around for so long time, no one found it? | 18:55 |
| bknudson_ | both of those calls should be going through the same backend method so should get the same result :( | 18:55 |
| davechen | yes. but it's currently not. | 18:55 |
| shaleh | I ran into some of this when working on Mercador. | 18:55 |
| davechen | there might be some code to be changed. | 18:55 |
| stevemar_ | davechen: i doubt many folks are using endpoint filter | 18:55 |
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| ayoung | I think they are | 18:55 |
| davechen | but's it not hard to so this, or to fix this. | 18:55 |
| ayoung | keeps catalog managable | 18:56 |
| davechen | stevemar_: but no report for it so far? | 18:56 |
| stevemar_ | davechen: looks like you found it | 18:56 |
| davechen | okay, not that all of you experts agree it's a bug, i am going to fix it shortly. | 18:56 |
| davechen | now that | 18:56 |
| gyee | you mean bug or feature? | 18:57 |
| davechen | the bug | 18:57 |
| stevemar_ | it's a bug | 18:57 |
| gyee | its a "special feature" | 18:57 |
| davechen | i think it's should be a bug instead of a feature. | 18:57 |
| stevemar_ | :P | 18:57 |
| gyee | so yes, its a bug! | 18:57 |
| stevemar_ | alright alright gyee | 18:57 |
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| davechen | gyee: you are asking for spec for review :) | 18:57 |
| davechen | ? | 18:57 |
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| stevemar_ | davechen: he's failing at being funny :) | 18:57 |
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| gyee | sorry | 18:57 |
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| stevemar_ | davechen: thanks for staying up! | 18:57 |
| stevemar_ | i know it's late there | 18:58 |
| davechen | nope, it's good time for me, i am in US | 18:58 |
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| stevemar_ | davechen: :O | 18:58 |
| gyee | davechen, you in Santa Clara? | 18:58 |
| davechen | stevemar_: thanks for your kindness. | 18:58 |
| gyee | we should go grab coffee | 18:58 |
| davechen | SAT | 18:58 |
| davechen | yes, I am done | 18:58 |
| stevemar_ | #topic REVIEW SPECS! | 18:58 |
| davechen | thanks guys | 18:58 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "REVIEW SPECS! (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:58 | |
| stevemar_ | everyone review specs, go go go | 18:58 |
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| stevemar_ | we need more eyes | 18:59 |
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| stevemar_ | eyes on all the specs! | 18:59 |
| stevemar_ | looking at you bknudson_ | 18:59 |
| stevemar_ | not reviewing enough | 18:59 |
| stevemar_ | that is all | 18:59 |
| bknudson_ | I don't care about specs | 18:59 |
| stevemar_ | thank you everyone | 18:59 |
| gyee | hah | 18:59 |
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| stevemar_ | bknudson_: the specs care about you <3 | 18:59 |
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| stevemar_ | #endmeeting | 18:59 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 18:59 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Nov 17 18:59:44 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 18:59 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2015/keystone.2015-11-17-18.00.html | 18:59 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2015/keystone.2015-11-17-18.00.txt | 18:59 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2015/keystone.2015-11-17-18.00.log.html | 18:59 |
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| clarkb | hello | 19:00 |
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| crinkle | o/ | 19:00 |
| pleia2 | o/ | 19:00 |
| Zara | o/ | 19:00 |
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| nibalizer | o/ | 19:00 |
| pleia2 | #startmeeting infra | 19:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Nov 17 19:00:45 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is pleia2. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 19:00 |
| jeblair | howdy | 19:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 19:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'infra' | 19:00 |
| pleia2 | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/InfraTeamMeeting#Agenda_for_next_meeting | 19:00 |
| ruagair | o/ | 19:01 |
| zaro | o/ | 19:01 |
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| Clint | o/ | 19:01 |
| AJaeger | o/ | 19:01 |
| pleia2 | alright, happy meeting time! | 19:01 |
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| ianw | o/ | 19:01 |
| pleia2 | #topic Announcements | 19:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Announcements (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:01 | |
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| mmedvede | o/ | 19:01 |
| pleia2 | anyone have any announcements? | 19:01 |
| anteaya | glad you're back? | 19:01 |
| jesusaurus | o/ | 19:01 |
| pleia2 | anteaya: thanks :) | 19:01 |
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| clarkb | pleia2: elasticsearch upgrade is done done | 19:02 |
| anteaya | yay! | 19:02 |
| pleia2 | clarkb: cool | 19:02 |
| clarkb | now moing on to logstash and kibana upgrades | 19:02 |
| jesusaurus | whoo | 19:02 |
| * pleia2 nods | 19:02 | |
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| clarkb | (if anyone wants to learn more about how we logstash I can walk people through testing) | 19:02 |
| anteaya | clarkb: is the page showing unclassified errors now only showing logs from gate runs? | 19:02 |
| clarkb | anteaya: no logstash upgrade will address that | 19:03 |
| anteaya | clarkb: okay thanks | 19:03 |
| pleia2 | #info elasticsearch upgrade is done, clarkb now moving on to logstash and kibana upgrades (and he's offered to help teach others about logstash) | 19:03 |
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| pleia2 | ok, I think we can move on | 19:03 |
| pleia2 | #topic Actions from last meeting | 19:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Actions from last meeting (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:03 | |
| pleia2 | jeblair investigate whether 209906 is needed for gerrit 2.11 | 19:03 |
| pleia2 | jeblair: how'd that go? | 19:03 |
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| jeblair | short version: yes :) | 19:04 |
| pleia2 | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/209906 | 19:04 |
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| jeblair | so we should add that into the list of things we need to do before the gerrit upgrade | 19:04 |
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| anteaya | should we change the topic on that patch to gerrit-upgrade? | 19:04 |
| jeblair | anteaya: yes | 19:04 |
| pleia2 | ok, so the patch looks good to folks who have looked at it, mordred has asked for jeblair eyes before merging | 19:05 |
| asselin__ | o/ | 19:05 |
| anteaya | done | 19:05 |
| pleia2 | we'll dive more into the migration later in the meeting, so we can move on from this | 19:05 |
| pleia2 | nibalizer send one-week reminder for scheduled maintenance on the 18th | 19:05 |
| pleia2 | I didn't see this, but I could have missed it, nibalizer? | 19:05 |
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| pabelanger | o/ | 19:06 |
| yolanda | o/ | 19:06 |
| ociuhandu | o/ | 19:06 |
| zaro | i didn't see reminder either. | 19:06 |
| pleia2 | if it wasn't sent out, it might be worth sending one that says "tomorrow" :) | 19:06 |
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| nibalizer | i dont think i did htat | 19:06 |
| nibalizer | sorry | 19:07 |
| pleia2 | nibalizer: want to send one now-ish? | 19:07 |
| nibalizer | sure | 19:07 |
| pleia2 | cool, thanks | 19:07 |
| nibalizer | reply to the original announcement or a new message | 19:07 |
| anteaya | reply | 19:07 |
| pleia2 | I think reply to original | 19:07 |
| pleia2 | and the last action from the last meeting: | 19:07 |
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| SpamapS | o/ | 19:07 |
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| pleia2 | clarkb double-check git-review interactions with gerrit 2.11 on review-dev.openstack.org | 19:07 |
| pleia2 | clarkb: how did that go? | 19:07 |
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| clarkb | works fine | 19:08 |
| clarkb | let me get my test change | 19:08 |
| pleia2 | \o/ | 19:08 |
| clarkb | https://review-dev.openstack.org/#/c/5383/ | 19:08 |
| anteaya | wonderful | 19:09 |
| pleia2 | great | 19:09 |
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| pleia2 | #topic Specs approval | 19:09 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Specs approval (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:09 | |
| pleia2 | so the only one this week is carried over from last, phschwartz has a spec proposed to add extension to openstackci for next phase of work | 19:10 |
| pleia2 | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/239810/ | 19:10 |
| pleia2 | yolanda had some comments on the patch and asselin__ agreed | 19:10 |
| cody-somerville | \o | 19:10 |
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| yolanda | that's due to discussion originated about graphite wrapper patch, and conversation that followed infra channel | 19:11 |
| asselin__ | yes, I think the spec needs a bit more clarification. Based on discussion, it doesn't seem to be just an extension | 19:11 |
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| yolanda | actually there were some comments that clarificated the issue, but done on graphite change | 19:11 |
| yolanda | i asked to add these comments into the spec | 19:12 |
| pleia2 | makes sense | 19:12 |
| yolanda | ++ | 19:12 |
| pleia2 | so it sounds like folks will keep moving forward on this, and we can revisit again next week | 19:12 |
| asselin__ | +1 | 19:12 |
| pleia2 | #topic Priority Effort: Gerrit 2.11 Upgrade | 19:12 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Priority Effort: Gerrit 2.11 Upgrade (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:12 | |
| pleia2 | big event for the week, the agenda has our series of etherpads | 19:13 |
| zaro | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/test-gerrit-2.11 | 19:13 |
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| zaro | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/gerrit-2.11-upgrade | 19:13 |
| pleia2 | thanks zaro | 19:13 |
| zaro | so patches are up for review. | 19:13 |
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| zaro | i think we are still working thru this one #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/243879/ | 19:14 |
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| zaro | clarkb: says the change there is not correct | 19:14 |
| zaro | we'll need to fixo that. | 19:14 |
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| anteaya | can I ask who will be available tomorrow to help with the upgrade? | 19:15 |
| zaro | also rollback is probably a no go.. #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/245598/ | 19:15 |
| pleia2 | ok, so we should make sure we focus on that this afternoon | 19:15 |
| cody-somerville | Big shout out to Zaro and jeblair for representing us at Gerrit Summit again! I know Zaro goes most years. :) Really enjoyed reading the write up. | 19:15 |
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| zaro | cody-somerville: thanks | 19:15 |
| clarkb | anteaya: I will be around | 19:15 |
| anteaya | I will be | 19:15 |
| jeblair | i will | 19:16 |
| pleia2 | me too | 19:16 |
| zaro | of course me as well | 19:16 |
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| anteaya | how do we feel so far about the upgrade plan? | 19:16 |
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| pabelanger | I can if needed | 19:16 |
| anteaya | does the etherpad capture the steps needed? | 19:16 |
| pleia2 | zaro: so that patch means we don't have a good way prepared to roll back the database from 2.11 to 2.8 if things go sideways | 19:16 |
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| clarkb | anteaya: I added my comments to upgrade plan otherwise it looked straightforward | 19:17 |
| zaro | pleia2: that is a correct assesment. | 19:17 |
| anteaya | pabelanger: okay what we need most from non root folks is reviewing patches and testing things on review-dev, happy to have your help | 19:17 |
| pleia2 | ok, how do we feel about not having a database rollback plan? | 19:17 |
| anteaya | clarkb: thanks | 19:17 |
| zaro | pleia2: we can only go back to backup. | 19:17 |
| clarkb | pleia2: I thought we had one? | 19:17 |
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| anteaya | pleia2: well we can keep the old data but we lose new data | 19:17 |
| pleia2 | zaro: ah, restore frm backups, no rollback | 19:17 |
| clarkb | there is a rollback if required change | 19:18 |
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| clarkb | what am I missing? | 19:18 |
| anteaya | but the rollboack loses new data | 19:18 |
| pleia2 | clarkb: zaro said it doesn't work https://review.openstack.org/#/c/245598/ | 19:18 |
| zaro | clarkb: i was plannig to investigate further today but rollback script doesn't work as is | 19:18 |
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| zaro | yah, cannot access new changes after rolling back. | 19:19 |
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| clarkb | gotcha | 19:19 |
| clarkb | is mordred aware? | 19:19 |
| anteaya | yes we talked about this this morning in irc | 19:19 |
| zaro | yes, there was discussion in infra channel | 19:19 |
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| zaro | other that what i have reported, i'm not aware that there's anything else that's needed for the upgrade to happen. | 19:20 |
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| zaro | thanks to all the peeps that tested review-dev! | 19:21 |
| jeblair | i think as long as we are able to merge the zuul change before the gerrit upgrade, we can just let the zuul upgrade happen with the restart that will go along with the gerrit upgrade. | 19:21 |
| clarkb | given how poorly last upgrade went I am not sure how comfortable I am without a rollback | 19:21 |
| pleia2 | #link http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/irclogs/%23openstack-infra/%23openstack-infra.2015-11-17.log.html#t2015-11-17T16:30:01 | 19:22 |
| anteaya | jeblair: can we add that point to https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/gerrit-2.11-upgrade ? | 19:22 |
| pleia2 | that seems to be where the discussion began | 19:22 |
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| ruagair | Not having a roll back makes me rather uneasy. | 19:22 |
| jeblair | (if something fails with the zuul change, it is most likely to affect only mergeability checks, so it's not super-critical) | 19:22 |
| clarkb | I would also worry about git repo confusion if we revert then change with same change number ends up in repo that already has it | 19:22 |
| ruagair | Although I'm also not able to help at the time. | 19:22 |
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| jeblair | clarkb: agreed, i think if we are unable to rollback with new data, we need to revert both the db and the git repos | 19:23 |
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| jeblair | so new changes would completely disappear and we would be back to the pre-upgrade state | 19:23 |
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| persia | Could new changes be set aside somewhere, so that authors could be notified? | 19:24 |
| jeblair | so i think our choices are: (a) delay pending a rollback procedure that can backport new data, or (b) say our rollback plan is restore both the db _and_ the filesystem from pre-upgrade state | 19:24 |
| ruagair | Either of those is a reasonable response, depending on the change rate and how many might be lost with b) | 19:25 |
| jeblair | (b) has some serious problems if we merge changes to any repos -- we will be rewinding branch tips. | 19:25 |
| anteaya | persia: I think if gerrit treated our data so well that we could do that, I doubt we would need to downgrade | 19:26 |
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| jeblair | potentially making repos non-fast-forwardable | 19:26 |
| jeblair | so (b) is not a _good_ rollback plan. | 19:26 |
| clarkb | jeblair: agreed | 19:26 |
| ruagair | jeblair: agreed | 19:26 |
| nibalizer | (b) is only realistic on a short turnaround time | 19:26 |
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| jeblair | yep | 19:26 |
| nibalizer | a few hours or a day sure, but a week or something its a giant problem | 19:27 |
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| jeblair | the prior problem was observed after a few hours | 19:27 |
| nibalizer | but we didn't rollback until monday | 19:27 |
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| nibalizer | after a satudray, upgrade | 19:28 |
| clarkb | we didnt understand the scope of the issue until monday rush | 19:28 |
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| jeblair | long enough that if it happened again, we would have some non-ff-able branches, but perhaps not too many | 19:29 |
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| pleia2 | do we think we can find a solution to make (a) reasonable? (and is there anyone to work on it?) | 19:30 |
| pleia2 | aside from zaro | 19:31 |
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| anteaya | the suspicion is that data is being stored in git | 19:31 |
| anteaya | since reflogs are being created for everything | 19:31 |
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| anteaya | I don't know what the solution is to restore that | 19:31 |
| jeblair | so as it stands, if we proceed, our plan is "if we notice a failure immediately, we can roll back fs and db; if we notice a failure after a delay, try _really hard_ to fix it moving forward; if that fails, we can roll back fs and db but it will be a *big deal* and cause mass confusion" | 19:31 |
| * pleia2 nods | 19:32 | |
| jeblair | anteaya: i think (a) has not been fully investigated | 19:32 |
| anteaya | that sounds to be about it | 19:32 |
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| anteaya | jeblair: that is true | 19:32 |
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| jeblair | i think the investigation has gotten to "something might be happening in git" but we don't understand what yet, so it's hard to reason about | 19:32 |
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| anteaya | well as far as there is code that appears to be creating reflogs | 19:33 |
| jeblair | sure, i don't know what that means though :) | 19:33 |
| anteaya | me either | 19:33 |
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| pleia2 | I don't know who makes a decision here, perhaps see if we can gather mordred and zaro and others later this afternoon? | 19:34 |
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| ruagair | My gut feel (having vontributed nothing to the work :-( ) is that it sounds like we're not quote ready. | 19:34 |
| pleia2 | make a decision before 00:00 utc | 19:34 |
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| anteaya | ruagair: but I don't know when we are going to be readier | 19:34 |
| clarkb | ya I want zaro and mordred to weigh in | 19:34 |
| pleia2 | anteaya: nobody does :\ | 19:34 |
| anteaya | right | 19:34 |
| anteaya | so waiting for us to be readier might delay us a while | 19:35 |
| jeblair | pleia2: i think that plan sounds good -- we need input from mordred and zaro | 19:35 |
| pleia2 | ok, let's see what they think this afternoon about the reasonable solveability of this problem | 19:35 |
| zaro | so i don't know aboout confort level but nodbody else ever does rollbacks in the gerrit community. | 19:35 |
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| zaro | i've asked | 19:35 |
| pleia2 | any other concerns, etc about the upgrade? | 19:35 |
| clarkb | zaro: they also run with major server breakin bugs | 19:35 |
| pleia2 | clarkb: heh, right | 19:35 |
| clarkb | zaro: as we discovered | 19:35 |
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| jeblair | zaro: we never did either until it completely failed | 19:35 |
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| jeblair | and the fix is brand new and took something like 8 attempts | 19:36 |
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| jeblair | nibalizer: so you'll hold your announcement until we make a decision by 00:00 utc? | 19:37 |
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| pleia2 | #agreed gather thoughts from mordred and zaro, make go/no go decision about gerrit upgrade by 00:00 UTC | 19:38 |
| nibalizer | ok | 19:38 |
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| pleia2 | #topic maniphest migration | 19:38 |
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| pleia2 | I don't know if this is left over from last week (there was discussion last week) | 19:38 |
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| pleia2 | and it's early for ruagair :) | 19:39 |
| ruagair | I've got no updates I've note. | 19:39 |
| pleia2 | oh, hi! | 19:39 |
| ruagair | of note. | 19:39 |
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| ruagair | I've hacked further cauth, made small progress. | 19:39 |
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| clarkb | ruagair: I found docs for doing mod auth openid and LP dont have link handy though :( | 19:39 |
| pleia2 | ruagair: ok to remove the details from the agenda for the next meeting? | 19:39 |
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| clarkb | it does not work with openstackid yet | 19:39 |
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| ruagair | clarkb: link would be nice, I'd like to look at that. | 19:39 |
| ruagair | yes pleia2. Thank you. | 19:39 |
| clarkb | ruagair: I will dig it up | 19:39 |
| ruagair | Thanks clarkb | 19:40 |
| pleia2 | the openstackid team is easy to work with, we made changes to it in order to support zanata's auth | 19:40 |
| pleia2 | so hopefully getting whatever we need won't be much of a barrier | 19:40 |
| clarkb | #link http://www.keypressure.com/blog/modauthopenid-and-ubuntu-sso/ | 19:40 |
| clarkb | ruagair: ^ | 19:40 |
| clarkb | I am working with smarcet et al to get it working with openstackid too | 19:41 |
| ruagair | Got it. | 19:41 |
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| clarkb | (openstackid isn't completely spec compliant when it comes to uri discovery) | 19:41 |
| ruagair | heh | 19:41 |
| * pleia2 nods | 19:41 | |
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| ruagair | I'll give that a run today clarkb | 19:42 |
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| pleia2 | thanks for your work on this, ruagair | 19:42 |
| pleia2 | #topic Open discussion | 19:42 |
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| ruagair | You're welcome. Sorry about getting hung up on cauth. | 19:42 |
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| pleia2 | ruagair: having been through this with another project, I totally understand | 19:42 |
| clarkb | and I newly understand | 19:42 |
| pleia2 | turns out federated auth is hard | 19:42 |
| clarkb | and they don't make debugging easy | 19:43 |
| ruagair | YES. | 19:43 |
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| clarkb | "no more idp endpoints" | 19:43 |
| clarkb | What does that mean? | 19:43 |
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| clarkb | and "this OP is not authorized to assert stuff about identity" | 19:43 |
| clarkb | or something | 19:43 |
| anteaya | I'd just like to ask the folks who felt we weren't ready for the gerrit upgrade to go over some of the etherpads and patches and help to get us to the point where they feel we are ready | 19:43 |
| zaro | clarkb: so would you mind investigating the '//' on review-dev further while i take some time to investigate the rollback error? | 19:43 |
| pleia2 | anteaya: ++ | 19:43 |
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| ruagair | Accepted anteaya. :-D | 19:44 |
| clarkb | zaro: yes I can continue to work on that if someone can add my key to my user | 19:44 |
| clarkb | otherwise I have to go get my old key out of cold storage | 19:44 |
| anteaya | ruagair: thank you, would be grateful to have your input on the data issue | 19:44 |
| clarkb | which I can do if it is easier | 19:44 |
| zaro | clarkb: i can do but don't know the mechanics of that. | 19:44 |
| jeblair | clarkb: i'll fix | 19:45 |
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| clarkb | ok thanks | 19:45 |
| jeblair | done | 19:46 |
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| * clarkb advertises logstash local test setup and learning to anyone interested | 19:46 | |
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| clarkb | to happe nafter tomorrow | 19:46 |
| clarkb | jeblair: I am in | 19:46 |
| pabelanger | I wouldn't mind talking about stackalytics.o.o. The site has been live for a week, however I think we need to talk about maintenance. In all that time we have not restarted wsgi, so we are not running the latest version of stackalytics. | 19:47 |
| * ruagair is interested clarkb | 19:47 | |
| pabelanger | we'll need to decide how to reload wsgi, since it takes more then 15mins to bring the process back up | 19:47 |
| clarkb | ruagair: cool we can figure out details after meeting | 19:47 |
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| jeblair | pabelanger: seems like we might want to cron that for a slow time? either that or make it an ha system and alternate upgrades. | 19:48 |
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| jeblair | (one of those sounds notably easier than the other) | 19:49 |
| pabelanger | jeblair: right. slow time is how it is done today on stackalytics.com. So, if people are fine with that (15-20mins potential outage), I can setup cron to do that. But I agree, something HA might be better | 19:49 |
| mmedvede | clarkb: where do I need to show up to learn about logstash local setup? | 19:49 |
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| clarkb | mmedvede: mostly just trying to figure out who is interested then we can decide on details | 19:50 |
| clarkb | so ping me and after meeting we can all sort out details | 19:50 |
| annegentle | o/ I had a Q about the status of publishing docs.o.o from swift, spec is here: http://specs.openstack.org/openstack-infra/infra-specs/specs/doc-publishing.html | 19:51 |
| jeblair | pabelanger: the slow cron sounds like a great start | 19:51 |
| pabelanger | jeblair: other option is what greghaynes suggested, using wsgi maximum-requests to restart processes | 19:51 |
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| annegentle | Looks like it's not a priority, but I also noticed the spec itself doesn't address one need that we have which is https. Does anyone have a thought/comment? | 19:51 |
| pabelanger | but honestly, need more help with wsgi to understand how it works | 19:51 |
| jeblair | annegentle: i think https would be easy to add | 19:52 |
| persia | pabelanger: Is it possible to bring up the upgraded one in a separate process, and redirect wsgi when it has finished the memory load? | 19:52 |
| pabelanger | err, uwsgi | 19:52 |
| pabelanger | persia: not sure, but I do like that approach | 19:52 |
| annegentle | jeblair: does the spec need updating? We're also looking at writing a spec for developer.o.o publishing | 19:52 |
| pabelanger | persia: our current issue, we only have so much RAM left, and are limited to 2 processes | 19:52 |
| annegentle | jeblair: and wondered if a 2nd spec is the way to go there | 19:52 |
| persia | pabelanger: Ah, good point. | 19:52 |
| greghaynes_ | re: slow startup - we should have a way to preload what is needed before uwsgi considers the process 'up', that requires some knowledge of the app though | 19:53 |
| jeblair | annegentle: but yeah, we haven't started working on that yet, maybe we can find someone to start on that soon. | 19:53 |
| greghaynes_ | that is the typical way that problem is solved | 19:53 |
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| yolanda | before finishing the meeting, i'd like to share progress about infra-cloud | 19:53 |
| pabelanger | greghaynes_: ya, I have been meaning to look into that | 19:53 |
| yolanda | ricky and myself have been working on us east | 19:53 |
| pleia2 | yolanda: oh good | 19:53 |
| greghaynes_ | if you do that, then the max-lifetime will 'just work' because when it restarts the wsgi process and wait for the preload to finish before it adds it in to the worker pool | 19:53 |
| yolanda | we've hit a problem with bifrost, when disks are > 2TB. I filed a change here https://review.openstack.org/#/c/246253, seems to have acceptation | 19:54 |
| annegentle | jeblair: I'm a wee bit concerned about timing since it has been approved 18 months now? And we'll need to slice it in well before an actual release. So a target would be lovely, such as mitaka-2 or some such? | 19:54 |
| jeblair | annegentle: if dev.o.o can use the same mechanism, then we can just update the existing spec; | 19:54 |
| pabelanger | greghaynes_: Ah, perfect | 19:54 |
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| annegentle | jeblair: it _can_ though we'd prefer to have a "real" server for developer.openstack.org for more dynamic content, so that sounds like a separate spec. | 19:54 |
| greghaynes_ | I am PTOing (in theory) today, but later in the week I could help look at it | 19:54 |
| annegentle | jeblair: but wanted to ask about both here | 19:54 |
| jeblair | annegentle: like you want developer.o.o to be a web app? | 19:55 |
| annegentle | jeblair: ideally so we can more dynamically serve API content | 19:55 |
| annegentle | jeblair: instead of static files | 19:55 |
| pleia2 | yolanda: sounds like you're on your way to a fix | 19:55 |
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| yolanda | greghaynes, want to take a look ? https://review.openstack.org/#/c/246253 - we also hit some problem with bifrost and duplicated templates https://review.openstack.org/244061 | 19:55 |
| jeblair | annegentle: i thought all the api content could be generated statically? i mean it doesn't change from moment to moment, right? | 19:55 |
| yolanda | this one, had a -1 from Deva, seems we need to clarify which is the right template | 19:56 |
| annegentle | jeblair: it can be, sure, but precludes the use of swagger-ui or any sort of sandbox | 19:56 |
| annegentle | jeblair: I think a spec would be a good way to keep the idea fresh and get reviews, does that sound right to you? | 19:56 |
| annegentle | jeblair: we didn't really get a meeting with mordred though we tried :) | 19:56 |
| jeblair | annegentle: oh, last i heard i thought there was talk about using swagger or something like it to generate the static stuff. either way, yeah, sounds like speccing would be good. | 19:56 |
| yolanda | pleia2, i wanted to raise the need for tracking progress properly on that... currently is quite messy. We pass info internally on mails, jira tickets on HP, storyboard... | 19:56 |
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| * anteaya gives annegentle her club jacket | 19:57 | |
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| ttx | and etherpads! | 19:57 |
| annegentle | jeblair: yes, we're definitely going static for now, but with facing 18+ months for even that I want to be sure we keep moving things forward incrementally | 19:57 |
| jeblair | annegentle: oh, i see -- yeah, i was probably thinking of that mordred idea but i guess that hasn't happened. | 19:57 |
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| pleia2 | yolanda: do you have any thoughts as to how to make it better, or just mentioning the problem? | 19:57 |
| annegentle | jeblair: yeah. so better for me to at least make sure we have the idea on paper. bits/bytes paper anyway :) | 19:57 |
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| greghaynes_ | yolanda: I'll have a look at it in a bit, trying to family time today :) | 19:57 |
| annegentle | feels more responsible anyway | 19:57 |
| pabelanger | Oh. If people could also look at https://review.openstack.org/#/c/205596/ for an example of using puppetlabs-apache. I am wanting to start work on the vhost::custom upstream and want to make sure everybody is happy how it will look for use. While not 100%, the concept will be the same. | 19:57 |
| pleia2 | yolanda: I'd be happy to help finding a solution | 19:57 |
| jeblair | yolanda: talk to Clint about tracking progress | 19:58 |
| yolanda | pleia2, i wanted to put my hope on phabricator, but this seems to be WIP | 19:58 |
| pabelanger | that is the work yolanda was looking into to port forward to a newer version of puppet-apache | 19:58 |
| pleia2 | oh yes, that's a great one for Clint | 19:58 |
| * Clint grunts. | 19:58 | |
| ruagair | heh | 19:58 |
| pleia2 | o/ Clint | 19:58 |
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| yolanda | problem is that storyboard is not complete enough to track everything. JIRA is something internal... | 19:59 |
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| yolanda | so what do we have? | 19:59 |
| pleia2 | yolanda: honestly we sketch out work in etherpads | 19:59 |
| yolanda | yep, but in terms of task tracking for example. Or managing the CMDB... | 19:59 |
| Zara | any news on a spec for task tracking? | 19:59 |
| pleia2 | all the upgrade stuff we're doing with gerrit should be in a proper task tracker | 20:00 |
| yolanda | we currently have this on excel sheets and emails, not good | 20:00 |
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| anteaya | time | 20:00 |
| pleia2 | Zara: earlier in the meeting ruagair shared some progress | 20:00 |
| pleia2 | thanks everyone! | 20:00 |
| Clint | yolanda: this was intended to be useful for something: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/219372/ | 20:00 |
| pleia2 | #endmeeting | 20:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 20:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Nov 17 20:00:27 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 20:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2015/infra.2015-11-17-19.00.html | 20:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2015/infra.2015-11-17-19.00.txt | 20:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2015/infra.2015-11-17-19.00.log.html | 20:00 |
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| russellb | o/ | 20:00 |
| mestery | o/ | 20:00 |
| ttx | Anyone here for the TC meeting ? | 20:00 |
| markmcclain | o/ | 20:00 |
| jeblair | o/ | 20:00 |
| angdraug | o/ | 20:00 |
| jroll | \o | 20:00 |
| yolanda | hi Clint, ok, will take a look | 20:00 |
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| * edleafe_ lurks | 20:01 | |
| sdague | o/ | 20:01 |
| jaypipes | o/ | 20:01 |
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| flaper87 | o/ | 20:01 |
| nurla | o/ | 20:01 |
| ttx | annegentle, lifeless, mordred, dtroyer, dhellmann: around ? | 20:01 |
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| dtroyer | o/ | 20:01 |
| dhellmann | o/ | 20:01 |
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| ttx | #startmeeting tc | 20:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Nov 17 20:01:37 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is ttx. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 20:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 20:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'tc' | 20:01 |
| annegentle | o/ | 20:01 |
| ttx | Hi everyone! | 20:01 |
| flaper87 | hellooooo | 20:01 |
| ttx | Here is our agenda for today: | 20:01 |
| ttx | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/TechnicalCommittee | 20:02 |
| ttx | should have some time for open discussion at the end | 20:02 |
| ttx | #topic Update deprecation policy for changes not in coordinated releases | 20:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Update deprecation policy for changes not in coordinated releases (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:02 | |
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| ttx | #link https://review.openstack.org/242117 | 20:02 |
| ttx | Looks like this is pretty close now. | 20:02 |
| ttx | As I said before, it clarifies what the deprecation policy means for intermediary-released projects (before we add any) | 20:02 |
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| ttx | The latest iteration has clearer wording | 20:02 |
| lifeless | ttx: o/ | 20:03 |
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| ttx | I think we can approve it now if people reapply their previous votes | 20:03 |
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| flaper87 | thanks to everyone for working on improving the wording there | 20:03 |
| flaper87 | and to Jim for baring with us | 20:03 |
| jroll | :) | 20:03 |
| jroll | words are hard | 20:03 |
| flaper87 | no objections from me | 20:03 |
| flaper87 | jroll: no kidding | 20:03 |
| mestery | The landslide of +1s roll in! | 20:03 |
| dtroyer | that is much better, thanks | 20:03 |
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| dhellmann | english is hard, let's write python | 20:03 |
| russellb | has 8 +1s now | 20:03 |
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| ttx | Alright, we have a majority now. Will approve in 30 seconds unless someone screams | 20:04 |
| * flaper87 does the countdown in his head | 20:04 | |
| lifeless | dhellmann: man, I spent a whole day writing 4 lines of code yesterday. English so easy. | 20:04 |
| mordred | o/ | 20:04 |
| dhellmann | lifeless : heh | 20:04 |
| ttx | alright, it's in. Thx jroll for improving on the tag | 20:04 |
| jroll | woo, thanks y'all | 20:04 |
| ttx | #topic Add team:single-vendor tag | 20:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Add team:single-vendor tag (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:04 | |
| ttx | #link https://review.openstack.org/218725 | 20:05 |
| ttx | We have 11 yes on this one, so I'll proceed to approve it unless someone screams | 20:05 |
| flaper87 | whole bunch of +1s | 20:05 |
| russellb | i think where this has landed is a nice compromise on concerns | 20:05 |
| russellb | nice work | 20:05 |
| mestery | Agreed | 20:05 |
| ttx | yeahn thx to jogo for driving most of it | 20:05 |
| ttx | approved | 20:05 |
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| flaper87 | and again, baring with us | 20:05 |
| flaper87 | :D | 20:05 |
| ttx | #topic Add Fuel to OpenStack Projects | 20:06 |
| jeblair | i +1d but also think it should be single-org -- the application of it to debian seems weird. | 20:06 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Add Fuel to OpenStack Projects (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:06 | |
| jaypipes | jeblair: ++ | 20:06 |
| jaypipes | jeblair: I had the same thought | 20:06 |
| russellb | agree | 20:06 |
| ttx | jeblair: you can propose the wording change now | 20:06 |
| ttx | I'm not totally convinced but could change my mind | 20:06 |
| ttx | #link https://review.openstack.org/199232 | 20:06 |
| annegentle | I'd like that wording change jeblair | 20:06 |
| ttx | So... I put this one back on the docket this week since we did not come to a final decision (approve or defer) last week due to lack of voters | 20:06 |
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| ttx | We have one formal NO votes and two formal abstentions in the comments, that leaves 5 unclear positions | 20:07 |
| ttx | If we don't have enough YES to approve it, we'll defer it (which now means setting it to abandoned) | 20:07 |
| ttx | The group rejecting it should post on the review a list of requirements before they would change their vote | 20:07 |
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| ttx | (if any) | 20:07 |
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| lifeless | jaypipes: jeblair: me too | 20:07 |
| angdraug | jeblair: have you seen my update from just before the meeting started? | 20:07 |
| jeblair | angdraug: just saw that | 20:08 |
| ttx | do we have people tat haven't expressed a position yet and would like to ? | 20:08 |
| lifeless | more though, the Debian thing isn't 'Debian' working on it; its an openstack vendor | 20:08 |
| ttx | lifeless: right, my thoughts | 20:08 |
| ttx | but let's wait for the review :) | 20:08 |
| ttx | angdraug: link ? | 20:08 |
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| angdraug | comment on the review you've linked above | 20:08 |
| ttx | on the review ? Oh ok | 20:09 |
| ttx | reading | 20:09 |
| angdraug | in short, we've covered all the remaining gaps that I've listed earlier | 20:09 |
| nurla | +1 | 20:09 |
| angdraug | worked really hard yesterday and today making all the gates work | 20:09 |
| jeblair | i'm also happy to see the engagement from the fuel developers about further work. i think their getting involved is timely considering the changes we're making around zuul, nodepool, and our focus on multinode work | 20:10 |
| ttx | mordred: any position on Fuel ? | 20:10 |
| annegentle | as a former cross-project PTL myself I appreciate cross-project work :) | 20:10 |
| mordred | yah - I'm excited about the stuff from bookwar | 20:10 |
| ttx | lifeless: same question | 20:10 |
| angdraug | for the record, the thread from bookwar: | 20:10 |
| mordred | and I think that collaboration with the fuel team is potentially valuable as we look at multi-node testing | 20:10 |
| angdraug | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2015-November/079284.html | 20:11 |
| jeblair | so i'm ready to switch to +1 | 20:11 |
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| angdraug | jeblair: thanks! | 20:11 |
| lifeless | ttx: I think we should, *but* jeblair's concerns are significant to me | 20:11 |
| mordred | the fuel team being honestly excited to work on the problems with us is the important bit - and it seems that they totally are | 20:11 |
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| flaper87 | mordred: ++ | 20:11 |
| lifeless | ttx: OTOH no project is perfect, its always an going effort to get better and more efficient and more coverage etc | 20:12 |
| mordred | (+1 from me) | 20:12 |
| mestery | jeblair's and infra's concerns in general were the reason for my abstaining, if Jim is ok with this, I'm ok with it. | 20:12 |
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| dhellmann | lifeless: ++ | 20:12 |
| ttx | yeah, I thought Jim's concerns were valid, I was just fine with giving the Fuel team the benefit of doubt | 20:12 |
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| mestery | +1 party starting | 20:12 |
| russellb | same, as i said on the review, i think it seems wrong to +1 this with an important cross project -1 on it | 20:12 |
| annegentle | ttx: me too, well stated | 20:12 |
| ttx | since all decisions can be changed | 20:12 |
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| russellb | +1 now | 20:13 |
| jeblair | ttx: you're so much nicer than i am :) | 20:13 |
| ttx | You do bad cop | 20:13 |
| ttx | I di good cop | 20:13 |
| ttx | do* | 20:13 |
| angdraug | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Fuel#People | 20:13 |
| ttx | anyway, looks like we have more than enough to approve now | 20:13 |
| jeblair | but yeah, mordred succinctly expressed my feeling | 20:13 |
| angdraug | I've appointed bookwar and igorbelikov as liaisons to Infra team | 20:14 |
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| ttx | obviously the effort that was statred must continue | 20:14 |
| annegentle | I must know bookwar because that's the best IRC nick ever | 20:14 |
| angdraug | please feel free to reach out to them on any fuel/infra cross-project issues | 20:14 |
| ttx | but I really think the Fuel team is now working hand in hand with all the other teams | 20:14 |
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| bookwar | annegentle: we actually talked in vancouver i think.. :) | 20:14 |
| ttx | so the process was painful but I think it was positive for everyone | 20:15 |
| ttx | alrightn approving now | 20:15 |
| ttx | that n key is too close to the , key | 20:15 |
| ttx | angdraug: all set! | 20:15 |
| angdraug | thanks a lot everyone! | 20:16 |
| flaper87 | angdraug: thank you | 20:16 |
| docaedo | angdraug: congrats! | 20:16 |
| mihgen | thank you for trust guys. we are happy to work within larger community | 20:16 |
| mordred | woot! | 20:16 |
| annegentle | bookwar: ++! :) | 20:16 |
| nurla | thank you! | 20:16 |
| angdraug | we really are excited to work with all of you ) | 20:16 |
| ttx | #topic Comms workgroup report | 20:16 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Comms workgroup report (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:16 | |
| ashtokolov | angdraug: congrats! | 20:16 |
| * mordred hands the fuel team a box of cookies with half a cookie in it, apologizes for having gotten hungry | 20:16 | |
| annegentle | welcome angdraug and all! | 20:16 |
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| ttx | annegentle, flaper87: where are we standing on the communications front ? | 20:16 |
| ttx | looks like some blogpost is in order | 20:16 |
| flaper87 | ttx: yup, it's | 20:17 |
| ttx | with what we approved last week and this week, lots of material | 20:17 |
| annegentle | ttx: we both unabashedly admit doing nothing in the last 2 weeks :) | 20:17 |
| flaper87 | we just synced yday (o was that the day before?) | 20:17 |
| annegentle | yeah definitely time for a post | 20:17 |
| annegentle | do we have any improvement ideas from last six month's of the plan? | 20:17 |
| ttx | annegentle: I think that worked reasonably well | 20:18 |
| flaper87 | We should send a request for feedback | 20:18 |
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| flaper87 | I'm curious to know, after 6 months, whether ppl still read these communications | 20:18 |
| annegentle | ttx: I think so, need more twitter power possibly, but other wise it's ok | 20:18 |
| ttx | you can include it in the post | 20:18 |
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| annegentle | flaper87: yeah request for feedback in the post works | 20:18 |
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| flaper87 | ttx: ha, in small letters ? | 20:18 |
| jeblair | "if you read this, please send $1 to flaper87" | 20:18 |
| flaper87 | :P | 20:18 |
| annegentle | hee | 20:18 |
| ttx | "flaper87 will blog for food" | 20:19 |
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| annegentle | OK, so post should have newest additions to governance, anything else we want to discuss/get input on? | 20:19 |
| flaper87 | w000h00000 | 20:19 |
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| mestery | lol | 20:19 |
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| annegentle | anything from summit, joint tc/board meeting? | 20:19 |
| ttx | okonomiyaki! | 20:19 |
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| flaper87 | Themes ? | 20:19 |
| flaper87 | We might want to mention something about the Mitaka themes | 20:20 |
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| ttx | flaper87: difficult to mention since we didn't make any real change yet | 20:20 |
| annegentle | cross-project comms? | 20:20 |
| ttx | annegentle: same, we haven't reached a conclusion there | 20:20 |
| lifeless | themes would be good | 20:20 |
| flaper87 | sure, but we did come up with sort of a list. Or at least mention there's that effort going on | 20:20 |
| lifeless | I don't think we have to make the change to talk about it | 20:21 |
| lifeless | transparency! | 20:21 |
| ttx | annegentle: with you and Mike always being in some tropical island | 20:21 |
| flaper87 | lifeless: yup, that's were I was coming from | 20:21 |
| annegentle | ttx: wishful thinking, I just wrangle kids | 20:21 |
| annegentle | flaper87: lifeless: yeah I agree, mention early/often | 20:21 |
| ttx | alright... so let's say you post some draft and we'll add to it ? | 20:22 |
| annegentle | sounds good | 20:22 |
| annegentle | any other comms problems to tackle? | 20:22 |
| annegentle | this release? | 20:22 |
| ttx | no I think we are good | 20:22 |
| ttx | as far as TC comms go | 20:22 |
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| ttx | ok, next topic ? | 20:23 |
| ttx | #topic Project Team Guide workgroup report | 20:23 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Project Team Guide workgroup report (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:23 | |
| ttx | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/mitaka-crossproject-doc-the-way | 20:23 |
| ttx | We discussed next steps for the project team guide at the Design Summit | 20:23 |
| ttx | There are a number of topics we want to cover this cycle | 20:23 |
| ttx | like better explain the benefits/tradeoffs for the various release models | 20:24 |
| ttx | or common principles like API deprecation rules or the fact that you can expect a DB and a oslo.messaging queue to be around | 20:24 |
| ttx | (and soon a DLM!) | 20:24 |
| ttx | We want to explain tags and point to projects.yaml as well | 20:24 |
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| ttx | And finally document community best practices like IRC bouncers or gertty | 20:24 |
| ttx | And then explore the wiki for other things that should be moved to the guide | 20:24 |
| ttx | I'll drive most of this but would not mind help :) | 20:25 |
| ttx | More recently a new question was raised in several reviews | 20:25 |
| ttx | Those are adding step-by-step instructions to setup new project git repositories, or moving them from the Infra guide "project creator guide" to the Project Team Guide | 20:25 |
| ttx | Personally I would prefer if the project team guide focused on its original objective, which is to document the culture | 20:25 |
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| ttx | and did not turn into an instruction manual | 20:25 |
| persia | +1 | 20:25 |
| ttx | But that may mean we are missing a true "project setup guide" since this apparently doesn't belong on the Infra guide either | 20:25 |
| ttx | Suggestions on that ? Should we just create a new guide for that ? | 20:26 |
| jeblair | i thought we talked about that in the session too and the reception for moving it to the ptg was favorable... | 20:26 |
| flaper87 | I wasn't able to attend the summit session but, just like in our previous project team guide sprints, I'm happy to help with this one. | 20:26 |
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| jeblair | hrm | 20:26 |
| jeblair | ttx: and i don't think the suggestion is to move git repo setup there... | 20:26 |
| dhellmann | having a proliferation of guides seems like it's going to make it harder to figure out where to put things, rather than easier | 20:26 |
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| jeblair | ttx: the parts we're talking about moving there are things like "how do openstack projects use unit tests" | 20:27 |
| annegentle | dhellmann: it's about the reviewers, not necessarily the publishing | 20:27 |
| jeblair | which seems like a good fid to the ptg for me | 20:27 |
| jeblair | good git | 20:27 |
| ttx | jeblair: there are test setup instructions proposed around release notes that really sound like a chapter of the infra guide | 20:27 |
| jeblair | grr | 20:27 |
| persia | dhellmann: The converse issue is that if the PTG gets too long and too detailed, many people won't want to read or watch changes. | 20:27 |
| jeblair | fit | 20:27 |
| annegentle | new swear phrase: "good git!" | 20:27 |
| dhellmann | annegentle : then let's get more reviewers? because it's also confusing for folks to find this information | 20:27 |
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| sdague | yeh, and you don't get more reviewers by splintering projects | 20:27 |
| dhellmann | it would be useful to have one manual telling us how to do our work, even if it covers both theory and practice | 20:27 |
| ttx | jeblair: what's being proposed right now is a lot of code snippets and commands | 20:27 |
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| sdague | it can be a dedicated chapter | 20:28 |
| dhellmann | we could, you know, exhibit the trust we keep suggesting other projects show by letting more folks have +2 on the team guide | 20:28 |
| jeblair | ttx: that seems like a new thing we didn't talk about then. | 20:28 |
| flaper87 | I'm more for having it all in the same project/repo | 20:28 |
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| sdague | dhellmann: ++ | 20:28 |
| ttx | dhellmann: wouldn't hurt since I seem to be the only one reviewing those days | 20:28 |
| annegentle | dhellmann: I think people want to publish this info, but in one case where a bunch of bug triaging info was added to the infra manual, that team didn't want to be responsible for reviewing it... I might be mixing guides here but I think it's an overall pattern. Small review teams, and small repos are fine, but publish to the same place | 20:28 |
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| ttx | jeblair: it is, which is why I'm asking | 20:28 |
| dhellmann | annegentle : right, I'm suggesting that more of that should go into the project team guide | 20:29 |
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| ttx | jeblair: please review what's being proposed, I think it clearly crosses the line from policy and principles to howto | 20:29 |
| annegentle | dhellmann: ok yeah, and I think there's need for howto | 20:29 |
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| annegentle | ttx: really I think there could be a howto chapter | 20:29 |
| annegentle | that's another repo | 20:29 |
| dhellmann | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/q/project:openstack%2Fproject-team-guide+is:open,n,z | 20:29 |
| annegentle | then we publish to one place | 20:29 |
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| jeblair | ttx: can do | 20:29 |
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| ttx | annegentle: but then project setup instructions are split between infra guide and project team guide | 20:29 |
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| dhellmann | annegentle : splitting the repos makes it confusing for contributors. Let's just give the right folks +2 on this repo. | 20:30 |
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| sdague | yeh, and it is git, we can always revert changes that might be bad | 20:30 |
| ttx | when I talk about a third repo, it's so that the project setup howto is in a unique location | 20:30 |
| dhellmann | ttx: I'm OK with moving the release notes setup instructions to the infra manual, if that's where we're going to put *all* such instructions | 20:30 |
| annegentle | dhellmann: ideally we'd put all such instructions in one repo, sure. | 20:31 |
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| dhellmann | ttx: who would be the reviewers for that new repo? | 20:31 |
| ttx | dhellmann: and that is the issue. Only half the instructions live there right now | 20:31 |
| annegentle | dhellmann: I was just mentioning that there was a bit of a problem with that | 20:31 |
| ttx | dhellmann: Anyone who cares | 20:31 |
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| ttx | Currently, a project team wanting to set up a new project repository has to read the infra guide. And we are adding material to the PTG about setting up new repositories as well | 20:32 |
| ttx | I think that's confusing | 20:32 |
| dhellmann | ttx: ok, maybe we should talk to fungi and the infra cores about (a) adding these directions to the infra manual and (b) giving +2 to more folks on that repo | 20:32 |
| ttx | I want everything in one place | 20:32 |
| persia | Selecting reviewers is easy: start with this team, and watch who else reviews, etc., with regular additions, removals, etc. | 20:32 |
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| ttx | If that's not in the Infra guide nor the PTG, then I'm fine with a third repo called project setup howoto | 20:32 |
| jeblair | how about it goes in the reno repo? | 20:32 |
| ttx | I just want everything in the same place | 20:32 |
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| dhellmann | jeblair : reno is not openstack-specific | 20:32 |
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| annegentle | hm. jeblair is onto something though, about putting docs nearest to code | 20:33 |
| annegentle | hm | 20:33 |
| dhellmann | jeblair : also, you would have to know to look at the reno guide to manage release notes before you know what reno is | 20:33 |
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| mordred | I thnk that's one of the tricky bits | 20:33 |
| ttx | annegentle: we could put it in cookiecutter | 20:33 |
| mordred | it's "what are the things I should look at" | 20:33 |
| mordred | ttx: same problem | 20:33 |
| sdague | right, we need one starting point | 20:33 |
| mordred | ttx: you have to know about cookiecutter | 20:33 |
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| sdague | it sounds like that is PTG | 20:34 |
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| ttx | some info is in the infra guide and will stay there | 20:34 |
| sdague | being a starting point you need to either contain the info, or links to the info for everything else | 20:34 |
| ttx | sdague: we can always point to another guide from the PTG (or from the infra guide) | 20:34 |
| mordred | yah. I think release notes guide being in reno is fine (for instance) if the main guide says "we use reno for release notes" | 20:34 |
| sdague | sure, but you need to tell people why they are going theere | 20:34 |
| * annegentle doesn't know cookiecutter | 20:35 | |
| dhellmann | mordred : we don't put the instructions for setting up CI in the zuul documentation. How is this different? | 20:35 |
| mordred | similar to "we use tox for driving virtualenv unit tests" and "we use testr as a test runner" | 20:35 |
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| ttx | and I'm fine with principles and policy to be in the PTG. I just don't want to turn something that is a policy guide into somethign only devs will read | 20:35 |
| dhellmann | the reno guide has generic instructions, but we do have openstack-specific standards we need projects to follow for their jobs to work | 20:35 |
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| mordred | dhellmann: I think there needs to be a top-leve thing which tells people what general concepts they need to know | 20:35 |
| mordred | and yea | 20:35 |
| sdague | ttx: who do you expect the audience to be? | 20:35 |
| mordred | openstack specific instructions on how to use the thing | 20:35 |
| annegentle | dhellmann: ah ok | 20:35 |
| ttx | sdague: any project team | 20:36 |
| annegentle | sdague: it's about redirecting questions to a page, providing wider support nets than 1:1 Q:A | 20:36 |
| mordred | like "for tox, please use skipsdist and use_develop and do not set system-packages to true" | 20:36 |
| persia | I'd like the audience to also include any org that is becoming involved in openstack | 20:36 |
| mordred | those are openstack specific things about a thing which has its own manual | 20:36 |
| mordred | if you just pointed to the tox manual, it would not help someone get started in the right way | 20:36 |
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| dhellmann | mordred : right, and in this case it's specific names of directories and tox environments | 20:36 |
| sdague | mordred: right | 20:36 |
| mordred | yup | 20:36 |
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| jeblair | these are starting to seem like project team guide things to me. | 20:37 |
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| ttx | sdague: at the very minimum we should make sure it's all in a specific chapter, if it stays in the PTG | 20:37 |
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| dhellmann | I'm OK with that. I added these things to release team page because they seemed release related, but we could make a new chapter for them. | 20:38 |
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| ttx | We could all put them in the "project setup guide" chapter that krotscheck has been pushing | 20:38 |
| flaper87 | yeah, I'd make a new chapter for them | 20:38 |
| jeblair | there's also the organizational question of: do we have 5 sections that each say "add this job to zuul" or one section that says "add these 5 jobs to zuul"? | 20:38 |
| dhellmann | sure, that makes sense | 20:38 |
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| dhellmann | jeblair : one page, several sections, because not all of this applies to every project | 20:38 |
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| annegentle | ideally these are all "articles" in a guide that everyone can publish to... it's just that the overall TOC isn't really solved, yet. | 20:39 |
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| ttx | Since you all seem to have an opinion on what belongs to he PTg and what does not, it would be awesome if you could actually review the changes there. | 20:39 |
| dhellmann | jeblair : does the project creator's guide move from the infra manual to PTG? | 20:39 |
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| dhellmann | ttx: +1000 | 20:39 |
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| ttx | because otherwise I'm inclined to ignore you | 20:39 |
| mestery | ttx: ++ | 20:40 |
| annegentle | ttx: for example we started a docs contributor's guide, but had many debates about whether it belonged in the infra manual | 20:40 |
| krotscheck | o/ | 20:40 |
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| ttx | and go with my own definition rather than try to guess yours and apply it | 20:40 |
| annegentle | ttx: and I agree on the "please review" call but honestly we have to focus efforts -- and publish as easily as possible | 20:40 |
| annegentle | my view is, publish as much as you want to review | 20:40 |
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| jeblair | ttx: i'm #4 in reviews, does that count? | 20:41 |
| ttx | annegentle: I tend to agree that published somewhere is better than not publish at all | 20:41 |
| ttx | jeblair: it counts! I just felt very lonely lately | 20:41 |
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| * flaper87 hugs ttx | 20:42 | |
| jeblair | dhellmann: that's a really good question, and i don't have an immediate answer. | 20:42 |
| ttx | anyway, I think we have a way forward. Collect opinions on reviews, then worst case scenario include it in the pTG for the time being | 20:42 |
| * flaper87 is guilty for not doing much reviews in PTG | 20:42 | |
| dhellmann | jeblair : food for thought. I get that keeping it in the infra manual makes it easier to keep it up to date. | 20:42 |
| jeblair | flaper87: you're #3. | 20:42 |
| annegentle | go flaper87 go :) | 20:42 |
| jeblair | http://stackalytics.openstack.org/?project_type=all&module=project-team-guide&release=all | 20:42 |
| ttx | I brag but I'm not even sure I'm #1 | 20:42 |
| flaper87 | jeblair: holy crap... you suck at reviewing PGT | 20:42 |
| * flaper87 ducks | 20:43 | |
| * dhellmann hands ttx an eclair | 20:43 | |
| flaper87 | PTG* | 20:43 |
| ttx | ok, next topic ? | 20:43 |
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| dhellmann | ++ | 20:43 |
| ttx | #topic Next Tags workgroup report | 20:43 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Next Tags workgroup report (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:43 | |
| ttx | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/mitaka-crossproject-next-tags | 20:44 |
| ttx | This was mostly a feedback session where we brainstormed potentially useful tags | 20:44 |
| ttx | The first set are the wrongly-named integration tags | 20:44 |
| ttx | i.e. tags to describe that a project for example has a horizon panel, a devstack plugin or heat resources | 20:44 |
| ttx | We had one proposed by sdague for devstack last cycle but it got stuck on the question of whether to distinguish between mainline and plugin or not | 20:44 |
| ttx | Second set are the team tags, we might still want a "large-team" tag at some point | 20:44 |
| ttx | Then we have contract/assert tags, which got a boost with the upgrade tags from Dan | 20:44 |
| ttx | Someone suggested a API versioning assert tag | 20:44 |
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| ttx | probably to back up mordred's "no more deprecation" call | 20:45 |
| ttx | Next we had QA tags, to describe the extent of testing done in each project | 20:45 |
| ttx | And finally horizontal team support tags (we might want a new one for stable branch team, and potentially others) | 20:45 |
| ttx | I don't think we formally need a workgroup to drive that anymore, since that wasn't very successful in Liberty... Feels like waiting until someone cares enough to propose one is good enough | 20:45 |
| mordred | I like waiting until people care | 20:45 |
| ttx | so I propose to disband the band of brothers | 20:45 |
| flaper87 | ++ | 20:46 |
| mordred | we even get tags from people who have quit openstack that way | 20:46 |
| ttx | (and sisters) | 20:46 |
| flaper87 | I felt that was pretty much the way it was working | 20:46 |
| anteaya | ttx: :) | 20:46 |
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| annegentle | heh | 20:46 |
| ttx | we did one meetig and got one tag proposed. We got more just by nudging Dan Smith | 20:46 |
| anteaya | there's a workflow | 20:46 |
| ttx | so I won't bore you to death with next-tags WG progress repotrs anymore | 20:47 |
| ttx | progress! | 20:47 |
| annegentle | I do like that we saw tags proposed | 20:47 |
| sdague | ttx: ++ disband :) | 20:47 |
| ttx | yes we create committees, but we also KILL THEM | 20:47 |
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| annegentle | nice | 20:47 |
| ttx | that said, if anyone is super-interested by one of the themes I just mentioned, feel free to dive in! | 20:47 |
| ttx | #topic Open discussion | 20:48 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:48 | |
| ttx | Anything else ? Any outcome from the Design Summit that we need to work on to make happen ? | 20:48 |
| ttx | I feel like the DLM stuff is making slow and steady progress | 20:48 |
| ttx | Cross-project comms overhaul is also on a track | 20:49 |
| ttx | mordred: what's the next step on the suggestion to never ever ever again deprecate an API ? | 20:49 |
| mordred | I thought lifeless was going to write up something | 20:50 |
| ttx | mordred, annegentle: we also signed up at the TC/BoD meeting to propose a slightly-modified mission statement | 20:50 |
| sdague | so, along those lines - https://review.openstack.org/#/c/245745/ - holding meetings in #openstack-dev or not for cross project things | 20:50 |
| mordred | lifeless: right? or have I been drinking too much hibiki 21 again | 20:50 |
| annegentle | mordred: ttx: yep we sure did | 20:50 |
| ttx | sdague: good one | 20:50 |
| mordred | annegentle: I need to sync back up with you on that don't I? | 20:50 |
| flaper87 | lifeless: are you? | 20:50 |
| annegentle | sdague: I'm -1 on it after thinking on it | 20:50 |
| ttx | hmmm... hibiki 21 | 20:50 |
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| annegentle | mordred: there's an email... it has words in it... | 20:51 |
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| ttx | annegentle: I like words | 20:51 |
| sdague | annegentle: ok | 20:51 |
| sdague | annegentle: and your alternative is? | 20:51 |
| annegentle | sdague: it being #openstack-dev channel for cross project meetings. Probably fine for service-catalog though. | 20:51 |
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| * annegentle clicked the link | 20:51 | |
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| sdague | annegentle: oh, right this was me trying to put our weekly checkpoint into irc | 20:52 |
| annegentle | sdague: I think meeting channels for meetings is better generally than picking a "room" channel | 20:52 |
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| dhellmann | annegentle : ++ | 20:52 |
| sdague | annegentle: sure, and they are all full | 20:52 |
| ttx | sdague: maybe it's time for #openstack-meeting5 | 20:53 |
| jeblair | i would prefer to keep discussion channels open for discussion and have meeting channels; i'm fine making more meeting channels, including a dedicated 'cross-project-meeting' channel (even if it's usually unscheduled) | 20:53 |
| annegentle | sdague: yeah let's stick with meeting channels, add more if needed. I think in the session we talked about #cross-project-meeting ? | 20:53 |
| sdague | maybe | 20:53 |
| dhellmann | we hit a similar issue trying to move the release team meeting | 20:53 |
| sdague | having a dedicated cross project meeting room seems good | 20:53 |
| jeblair | new channels are pretty low-cost | 20:53 |
| annegentle | jeblair: ok, good | 20:53 |
| lifeless | mordred: I am writing something | 20:53 |
| lifeless | mordred: on the DLM side, its not on my todo to write | 20:53 |
| flaper87 | lifeless: ++ | 20:53 |
| ttx | sdague: I want to go on a clean-up rampage first | 20:53 |
| lifeless | mordred: I am writing other things ;) | 20:53 |
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| sdague | especially as the overall time contention would be less | 20:53 |
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| sdague | because it won't be Nth subteam of new project | 20:54 |
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| dhellmann | ttx: do we have meetings on the schedule that aren't happening? | 20:54 |
| mordred | lifeless: oh. piddle then | 20:54 |
| flaper87 | lifeless: mordred so, no one is working on the "never ever ever deprecate APIs thing" ? | 20:54 |
| ttx | dhellmann: of course | 20:54 |
| mordred | ttx: I guess I need to write a thing on the API topic | 20:54 |
| mordred | ttx: I'll put that on my list | 20:54 |
| lifeless | flaper87: I'm working on a deprecation thing for libraries | 20:54 |
| sdague | it would probably be good to have audit of existing meetings to parse the logs and figure out if they are happening | 20:54 |
| flaper87 | lifeless: roger | 20:54 |
| dhellmann | ttx: then yeah, we should clean that up and see if we still need another new channel | 20:54 |
| jeblair | mordred: "Never, ever, ever, ever deprecate an API." hth | 20:54 |
| mordred | lifeless: yah - I totally thought you were going to write a thing on api deprecation because you were already writing the one for libraries | 20:54 |
| sdague | and if they are happening if they are all really > 30 minutes | 20:54 |
| sdague | because I expect there is a lot of over allocated time | 20:54 |
| ttx | rigt. I might take that action | 20:54 |
| mordred | lifeless: but I'm more than happy to write it | 20:55 |
| edleafe | wait - I thought it was deprecate, but never remove? | 20:55 |
| mordred | lifeless: just wanted to make sure I wasn't stealing your fun | 20:55 |
| mordred | edleafe: yes | 20:55 |
| mordred | edleafe: that's what it actually is | 20:55 |
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| edleafe | mordred: ah, just checking | 20:55 |
| lifeless | mordred: right, so I think in libraries we can remove, but it needs to be a long period | 20:55 |
| jeblair | good thing i'm not writing it | 20:55 |
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| sdague | ok, so is there an #agreed that we'll build an openstack-meeting-cp ? | 20:55 |
| flaper87 | mordred: I'm happy to help you but not sure I can take lead on that | 20:55 |
| ttx | jeblair: we need some way to check that a meeting has been happening often enough to justify blocking the slot | 20:55 |
| lifeless | mordred: lets compare notes and so on, bu t yes, differen tthings | 20:55 |
| mordred | flaper87: cool. I'll do a draft and sent it | 20:55 |
| sdague | which will be dedicated for cross project meetings | 20:56 |
| ttx | jeblair: it's actually doable now that we have the meeting name strings encoded in the YAML | 20:56 |
| edleafe | mordred: I can review too | 20:56 |
| mordred | "removing things shifts the burden of support from the devs to their users and is rude" | 20:56 |
| jeblair | ttx: agreed, a tool to parse that and check eavesdrop.o.o seems feasible | 20:56 |
| lifeless | speaking of hilarious deprecations, I had someone suggest today that a spec was *too strict* because it didn't allow for std-66 (URIs!) changing | 20:56 |
| lifeless | not like thats been basically stable for decades.... | 20:56 |
| mordred | lifeless: wow | 20:56 |
| mordred | lifeless: BUT SOMEONE MIGHT WANT TO INNOVATE IN THEIR PRODUCT!!!!!!!!! | 20:57 |
| lifeless | mordred: ayup. (see distutils-sig if you want the context) | 20:57 |
| mordred | lifeless: DON'T STIFLE MY PRODUCTIZATION MONETIZATION STRATEGY!!!!! | 20:57 |
| mordred | lifeless: BY BEING STRICT WITH THE FREE DEV YOU'RE DOING FOR ME ALREADY!!!!!! | 20:57 |
| ttx | jeblair: I'll try to go and free unused slots, and if I cant free enough of them we should create a new channel | 20:57 |
| sdague | jeblair / ttx / annegentle: so, new meeting room? | 20:57 |
| jeblair | lifeless: it's actually a standard. amazing. | 20:58 |
| * dhellmann looks for mordred's volume knob | 20:58 | |
| mordred | lifeless: HOW CAN I EVER ABUSE YOUR GOOD WILL IF YOU DON'T LET ME SCREW MY USERS WITH YOUR WORK????!!!!!?????!!!!! | 20:58 |
| ttx | sdague: I'll take that action | 20:58 |
| jeblair | sdague: ++ | 20:58 |
| lifeless | jeblair: I know right? | 20:58 |
| * mordred hands a broken knob he found to dhellmann | 20:58 | |
| sdague | because I think unless we have a meeting space which is kind of reserved for cross project efforts, every time a new one spins up, finding a meeting time is going to be hard | 20:58 |
| sdague | because all the time blocks are booked | 20:58 |
| lifeless | sdague: that may mean that you'll just have a raft of people conflicts | 20:58 |
| jeblair | sdague, ttx, annegentle: potential followup question -- should this meeting move to that channel? :) | 20:58 |
| sdague | lifeless: it might | 20:58 |
| ttx | sdague: oh, a cross-project meeting room ? So if we don't reuse #openstack-dev I fear that room won't have the lurkers you're looking for | 20:59 |
| sdague | jeblair: I think that would be fine | 20:59 |
| annegentle | ttx: honestly it's better not to have only devs | 20:59 |
| annegentle | ttx: for cross project work esp. | 20:59 |
| ttx | maybe having the TC meeting there is a good way to make it a popular lurking spot | 20:59 |
| * annegentle fires up https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/next-tc-blog-post | 20:59 | |
| sdague | lifeless: I did look at all the things that were conflicting here, and there were mostly not any major ones | 20:59 |
| dhellmann | jeblair : all meetings in the new room are cross project, but not all cross project meetings are in the room | 20:59 |
| ttx | annegentle: the trick is.... people don't necessarily subscribe to new meeting channels | 20:59 |
| sdague | and, this is intentionally just a checkpoint 30 minute bit | 21:00 |
| ttx | #openstack-meeting has 479 people | 21:00 |
| sdague | it's mostly not expected for people to show up | 21:00 |
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| ttx | #openstack-meeting-4 has 183 | 21:00 |
| sdague | but it's important to log | 21:00 |
| ttx | sdague: ok, I though random lurking was a property of #openstack-dev that made it attractive to hold crossproject meetings | 21:00 |
| sdague | because the alternative is going to be people just not doing itin irc | 21:00 |
| jeblair | dhellmann: well, if the idea is that meeting conflicts are a proxy for people conflicts, then moving / having truly cross-project meetings there would be beneficial. | 21:00 |
| ttx | anyway, time is up | 21:00 |
| ttx | I'm closing this meeting but we could continue the discussion on -dev | 21:01 |
| annegentle | ttx: still, we need to have meetbot, logs as well as keep "rooms" available for adhoc convos | 21:01 |
| annegentle | ttx: heh | 21:01 |
| dhellmann | jeblair : I think I see your point | 21:01 |
| ttx | #endmeeting | 21:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 21:01 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Nov 17 21:01:27 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 21:01 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2015/tc.2015-11-17-20.01.html | 21:01 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2015/tc.2015-11-17-20.01.txt | 21:01 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2015/tc.2015-11-17-20.01.log.html | 21:01 |
| ttx | annegentle: saw what I did there ? | 21:01 |
| ttx | For those following at home, the cross-project meeting was cancelled. | 21:01 |
| ttx | (for lack of agenda) | 21:02 |
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| elmiko | ack, thanks | 21:02 |
| Jokke_ | :) thanks ttx (surprisingly I saw the mail as well) | 21:02 |
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| dims_ | thanks ttx | 21:03 |
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| ttx | we can still use the empty room to broadcast random announcements I guess | 21:03 |
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| jeblair | < /dev/random | 21:04 |
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| Piet | OpenStack UX and Neutron are doing a results presentation on Monday for the Nova Network / Neutron migration study | 21:08 |
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| Piet | Any advice on how to communicate the date/time? | 21:09 |
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| elmiko | Piet: is the mailing list insufficient? | 21:10 |
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| Piet | I'm thinking about using the distribution list? Is that cool? | 21:11 |
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| elmiko | not sure, haven't used that one before | 21:12 |
| ttx | Piet: openstack-dev seems like the best bet. Make sure to ping thingee so that he includes it in the weekly digest | 21:12 |
| Piet | ttx k | 21:12 |
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| annegentle | Piet: agreed on openstack-dev -- I think you'll find a lot of interest! | 21:20 |
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| sputnik13 | harlowja is the meeting over? | 21:22 |
| harlowja | hmmm, did it ever start? | 21:22 |
| sputnik13 | dunno, I just got here :) | 21:22 |
| clarkb | 21:01:57 ttx | For those following at home, the cross-project meeting was cancelled. | 21:23 |
| lifeless | sputnik13: the cross proj^ | 21:23 |
| clarkb | I think there was ML thread | 21:23 |
| sputnik13 | oh, ok | 21:23 |
| sputnik13 | clarkb lifeless thx | 21:23 |
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| ttx | no agenda, no meeting | 21:24 |
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