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| Americangaygoats | Bitch american gays visit here http://www.ndtv.com/article/world/three-christian-women-allegedly-paraded-naked-in-pakistan-court-orders-probe-391647 you will be fucked naked am an indian we will join pakistan will fuck you down stop spying planet | 08:23 |
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| n0ano | #startmeeting scheduler | 15:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Jul 16 15:00:31 2013 UTC. The chair is n0ano. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 15:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 15:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: scheduler)" | 15:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'scheduler' | 15:00 |
| n0ano | show of hands, anyone here for the scheduler? | 15:00 |
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| n0ano | Slow week, it's 10 min. after so I'll close for today, we'll try again next week. | 15:09 |
| n0ano | #endmeeting | 15:09 |
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| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 15:09 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Jul 16 15:09:11 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 15:09 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/scheduler/2013/scheduler.2013-07-16-15.00.html | 15:09 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/scheduler/2013/scheduler.2013-07-16-15.00.txt | 15:09 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/scheduler/2013/scheduler.2013-07-16-15.00.log.html | 15:09 |
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| primeministerp | #startmeeting hyper-v | 16:06 |
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| openstack | Meeting started Tue Jul 16 16:06:10 2013 UTC. The chair is primeministerp. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 16:06 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 16:06 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: hyper-v)" | 16:06 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'hyper_v' | 16:06 |
| primeministerp | hi everyone | 16:06 |
| alexpilotti | hi there! | 16:06 |
| ociuhandu | hi all | 16:06 |
| primeministerp | so I think this might be quick | 16:07 |
| primeministerp | figure we give some quick updates | 16:07 |
| primeministerp | alexpilotti: I know you are in the process of pushing code | 16:07 |
| alexpilotti | yep | 16:07 |
| primeministerp | alexpilotti: is there anything specific which we should keep our eyes on | 16:08 |
| alexpilotti | WMIV2 and Dynamic memory, as discussed last time | 16:08 |
| primeministerp | alexpilotti: so still no changes | 16:08 |
| alexpilotti | I'm going to send the email with the gerrit review urls as soon as those are up | 16:08 |
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| primeministerp | alexpilotti: great | 16:08 |
| primeministerp | I don't see luis around | 16:08 |
| primeministerp | so | 16:09 |
| primeministerp | that means puppet discussion really isn't worth having w/o out him | 16:09 |
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| primeministerp | alexpilotti: any more crowbar related bits that are interesting to note? | 16:10 |
| ociuhandu | primeministerp: we have started sending the first changes | 16:10 |
| alexpilotti | yes, we started pushing for review the Hyper-V support in Crowbar pebbles | 16:10 |
| primeministerp | ociuhandu: execellent | 16:10 |
| alexpilotti | ociuhandu: would you like to give some details? | 16:11 |
| primeministerp | no matt ray on the channel right now either | 16:11 |
| ociuhandu | primeministerp: we had to add support for samba, filter some of the linux-specific bits, so that they will not apply to windows | 16:11 |
| primeministerp | ociuhandu: the usual suspects | 16:12 |
| primeministerp | ociuhandu: keep up the good work | 16:12 |
| ociuhandu | we try to keep the nodes as a concept transparent, so that we don't treat differently the windows and the linux nodes | 16:12 |
| ociuhandu | but rather apply only what's supported / required | 16:12 |
| hanrahat | ociuhandu: does that require any refactoring of the base code? | 16:13 |
| ociuhandu | the issues we had were with the ruby version update, as the windows clients were using ruby 1.9 while linux ones are on the 1.8 | 16:13 |
| primeministerp | hanrahat: basically an issue w/ the upstream chef bits for windows being newer than the linux side | 16:13 |
| ociuhandu | and there are syntax changes between them, good thing that 1.8 supports also the 1.9 syntax | 16:14 |
| ociuhandu | hanrahat: if we're talking about the base crowbar code, yes, we need to add in all windows specific parts and make sure that the existing linux-specific ones do not apply on windows nodes | 16:14 |
| ociuhandu | one other reason for not removing part of the roles from the windows clients completely is that in the future those services should be available for windows nodes too | 16:16 |
| primeministerp | ociuhandu: thanks | 16:16 |
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| hanrahat | ociuhandu: yes, base crowbar code... thanks | 16:16 |
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| zehicle_ | sorry, I was late | 16:17 |
| primeministerp | hi rob | 16:17 |
| zehicle_ | Hey! | 16:17 |
| ociuhandu | zehicle: hi Rob | 16:17 |
| primeministerp | so moving on | 16:17 |
| primeministerp | alexpilotti: there were the new bits you had to share | 16:17 |
| primeministerp | alexpilotti: if you want to mention it, re the runner | 16:18 |
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| primeministerp | alexpilotti: the job runner? | 16:19 |
| primeministerp | he must be sleeping | 16:19 |
| primeministerp | ociuhandu: do you want to comment on the glance image cleanup processes as well for garbage collection? | 16:20 |
| primeministerp | ociuhandu: I know alex wanted to mention it | 16:20 |
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| primeministerp | so | 16:21 |
| primeministerp | if he's not going to mention it | 16:21 |
| alexpilotti | primeministerp: I believe ociuhandu got disconencted | 16:22 |
| primeministerp | alexpilotti: you too? | 16:22 |
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| alexpilotti | primeministerp: nope I was around | 16:22 |
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| alexpilotti | primeministerp: unless you pinged me before and I was disconencted as well :-) | 16:22 |
| alexpilotti | zehicle: hi! | 16:23 |
| alexpilotti | zehicle: ociuhandu was just talking about Crowbar | 16:23 |
| alexpilotti | primeministerp: should we switch to the next topic? | 16:23 |
| alexpilotti | as I don't see any reply from zehicle or ociuhandu | 16:23 |
| zehicle_ | I'm here | 16:24 |
| primeministerp | alexpilotti: I was waiting for you | 16:24 |
| primeministerp | alexpilotti: to discuss the glance cleanup | 16:24 |
| alexpilotti | zehicle_: I was pinging you on the wrong nick :-) | 16:24 |
| zehicle_ | missed the earlier thread on CB -> there are pulls to bring HyperV into CB "pebbles" Grizzly | 16:24 |
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| alexpilotti | zehicle_: yep, the first batch | 16:25 |
| ociuhandu | me too, looks like colloquy came back to life | 16:25 |
| zehicle_ | I had a dead IRC client that was holding the nick :( | 16:25 |
| alexpilotti | zehicle_: looks like we all have issues today here with IRC except primeministerp :-) | 16:25 |
| zehicle_ | We're coordinating w/ SUSE to review and accept. | 16:25 |
| primeministerp | hehe | 16:25 |
| alexpilotti | zehicle_: cool, let us know if you'd like to meet on IRC / Skype / etc to discuss them | 16:26 |
| alexpilotti | zehicle_: there's quite an amount of work out there in those patches :-) | 16:26 |
| ociuhandu | zehicle_: one quick thing: the reason for not removing part of the roles from the windows clients completely is that in the future those services should be available for windows nodes too | 16:26 |
| alexpilotti | zehicle_: e.g. nagios | 16:27 |
| ociuhandu | zehicle_: like ipmi, ganglia, nagios | 16:27 |
| zehicle_ | We've got a regular design/plan cadence setup for Crowbar. Plan is this thursday - would be helpful to include you there | 16:27 |
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| zehicle_ | +1 | 16:27 |
| ociuhandu | we chose to "skip" the recipe until the windows bits get implemented, rather than removing the role and adding it back later on | 16:27 |
| zehicle_ | for the broader, OpenStack community - we're trying setup Crowbar as a quick way to do a Grizzly + HyperV deploy | 16:28 |
| alexpilotti | ociuhandu: did you tell zehicle_ about the IPMI chef issue on the crowbar UI? | 16:28 |
| ociuhandu | that would be great | 16:28 |
| alexpilotti | cool, at what hour is the meeting on Thu? | 16:28 |
| zehicle_ | 8 am central | 16:29 |
| zehicle_ | bit.ly/crowbar-calendar | 16:29 |
| ociuhandu | alexpilotti: no, but i suggest we talk on that on the crowbar meeting. As a very short note, we do not have DMI info on the windows nodes so web interface is failing | 16:29 |
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| primeministerp | ok | 16:30 |
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| primeministerp | alexpilotti: do you mention the glance cleanup bits? | 16:31 |
| primeministerp | er ^want to | 16:31 |
| alexpilotti | oki, added | 16:31 |
| ociuhandu | zehicle_: great, we'll be there | 16:31 |
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| alexpilotti | sure | 16:33 |
| alexpilotti | primeministerp: should we change topic? :-) | 16:33 |
| primeministerp | alexpilotti: i'm waiting on you | 16:33 |
| primeministerp | #glance cleanup scripts | 16:34 |
| primeministerp | er | 16:34 |
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| alexpilotti | :-) | 16:34 |
| primeministerp | #topic glance cleanup | 16:34 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "glance cleanup (Meeting topic: hyper-v)" | 16:34 | |
| alexpilotti | txc | 16:34 |
| primeministerp | alexpilotti: all you | 16:34 |
| alexpilotti | so we ran into an issue with the image cache | 16:34 |
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| alexpilotti | on nova compute nodes | 16:34 |
| alexpilotti | we built a vaildation system that accepts arbitrary images sent in with an HTTP REST API call | 16:35 |
| alexpilotti | that image gets downloaded, included in glance, a new image is spawned, a floating ip attached and the user gets notified of the availability | 16:35 |
| alexpilotti | we are using it on a variety of images that need to be validated on Hyper-V | 16:36 |
| alexpilotti | The issue is that the glance image cache used by nova-compute | 16:36 |
| alexpilotti | is not getting "garbage collected" | 16:36 |
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| alexpilotti | this is not an issue in a regular environment, where images are relatively static | 16:36 |
| alexpilotti | while it's an issue in a case like this one where potentially hundreds of images are getting added on a node every day | 16:38 |
| alexpilotti | teh result as you can image, is that the host runs out of space sooner or later | 16:38 |
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| alexpilotti | as a workaround, I wrote a powreshell script that checks whicj images are not in glance anymore and deletes the corresponding VHD/VHDX files | 16:38 |
| alexpilotti | this is scheduled as a Windows task every 15' | 16:39 |
| alexpilotti | The best solution, would be to add this garbage collection in the nova-compute driver | 16:39 |
| alexpilotti | For Grizzly we can just use the script | 16:39 |
| alexpilotti | while for Havana it'd be nice to include it in the official codebase :-) | 16:40 |
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| alexpilotti | comments? | 16:40 |
| primeministerp | alexpilotti: o | 16:40 |
| primeministerp | alexpilotti: i'm for it | 16:40 |
| zehicle_ | this is an issues for local cache images - not boot from block? | 16:40 |
| primeministerp | zehicle_: correct | 16:41 |
| alexpilotti | zehicle_: yes | 16:41 |
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| alexpilotti | zehicle_: talking about boot from block, what's the status of the EQL driver? :-) | 16:42 |
| zehicle_ | it's in the pebbles code base | 16:42 |
| primeministerp | zehicle_: it's not a standalone project? | 16:42 |
| zehicle_ | no, it's part of the cinder barclamp | 16:43 |
| alexpilotti | zehicle_: don't you plan to add it in Cinder? | 16:43 |
| zehicle_ | https://github.com/crowbar/barclamp-cinder/tree/release/mesa-1.6/master/chef/cookbooks/cinder/files/default | 16:43 |
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| alexpilotti | zehicle_: so the only way to use it officially is through Crowbar? | 16:44 |
| zehicle_ | that's the plan... would have to be Havana at this point. | 16:44 |
| primeministerp | zehicle_: so the equallogic doesn't connect directly? | 16:44 |
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| primeministerp | to cinder | 16:44 |
| zehicle_ | *officially* - the code's there | 16:44 |
| alexpilotti | zehicle_: got it :-) | 16:44 |
| primeministerp | zehicle_: ok | 16:44 |
| zehicle_ | EQL acts just like any cinder plug-in. it sets up the iSCSI targets for the VMs | 16:45 |
| primeministerp | zehicle_: but it doesn't run on the eql | 16:45 |
| primeministerp | correct | 16:45 |
| primeministerp | it's running on the controller/ | 16:45 |
| primeministerp | ? | 16:45 |
| zehicle_ | right, it connects to the SSH interface for the EQL | 16:46 |
| primeministerp | got it | 16:46 |
| primeministerp | so it's like a technology bridge | 16:46 |
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| zehicle_ | hmmm, I'd say that it's using SSH to access the API | 16:46 |
| alexpilotti | zehicle_: we have an EQL 6xxx here, I guess we'll give it a try :-) | 16:46 |
| primeministerp | zehicle_: i just acquired one too, i'm going to give it a try as well | 16:47 |
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| primeministerp | alright anyone have anything addtional to add? | 16:47 |
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| primeministerp | alexpilotti: ociuhandu ? | 16:48 |
| zehicle_ | I have a question about Tempest runs against the HyperV work | 16:48 |
| primeministerp | haha | 16:48 |
| primeministerp | ok | 16:48 |
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| primeministerp | zehicle_: shoot | 16:48 |
| zehicle_ | is there parity on it? if not, do you have an idea of the gaps? | 16:48 |
| primeministerp | no idea | 16:48 |
| primeministerp | it's on the list of todos | 16:49 |
| primeministerp | i'm assuming we're going to have to add bits when we get there | 16:49 |
| zehicle_ | no prob - it's something we can check when we spin up the CB deploy (since that's part of the CB install) | 16:49 |
| primeministerp | zehicle_: anything else to add? | 16:50 |
| zehicle_ | from my work on the Board side, there's going to be more emphasis on status of Tempest tests | 16:50 |
| alexpilotti | primeministerp, hanrahat: we should IMO consider this as part of the work we have to do ASAP | 16:50 |
| primeministerp | zehicle_: yes we've been following the thread | 16:50 |
| zehicle_ | which, IMHO, is a very good thing for the project | 16:50 |
| primeministerp | alexpilotti: yes, indeed | 16:51 |
| zehicle_ | We'll need to think if that's a grizzly or havana challenge | 16:51 |
| primeministerp | there are some changes going on here which will hopefully address this from my perspective | 16:51 |
| alexpilotti | zehicle_: we want to get the driver into B category as soon as the CI is ready | 16:51 |
| hanrahat | primeministerp: agreed... let's discuss among the three of us later this week. can you set up a meeting? | 16:51 |
| primeministerp | hanrahat: i need to wait until hashir is back | 16:51 |
| primeministerp | hanrahat: a lot is dependant on changes on our team | 16:52 |
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| hanrahat | primeministerp: that's fine | 16:52 |
| primeministerp | hanrahat: from my limited knolege | 16:52 |
| alexpilotti | primeministerp: IMO this is before the CI stuff gets done | 16:52 |
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| alexpilotti | primeministerp: we need to be sure that the tests run fine | 16:52 |
| primeministerp | alexpilotti: definately | 16:52 |
| alexpilotti | primeministerp: as in no Linux dependencies, etc | 16:52 |
| primeministerp | alexpilotti: agreed | 16:52 |
| primeministerp | alexpilotti: I'll try to schedule soemthing for the end of the week | 16:53 |
| alexpilotti | zehicle_: when you refer to tempest, you refer to a gate or just compliance with the tests? | 16:53 |
| primeministerp | alexpilotti: he's referring to tempest as being the scorecard for complaince | 16:55 |
| zehicle_ | yy | 16:55 |
| primeministerp | alexpilotti: and that will feed into refstack | 16:55 |
| primeministerp | i'm assuming at some level | 16:55 |
| alexpilotti | primeministerp: yep, but those are two different stages | 16:55 |
| primeministerp | yes | 16:56 |
| alexpilotti | getting the tests running and "green" is a thing that we can do w/o the CI in place | 16:56 |
| alexpilotti | the gate is the next step that involves the CI | 16:56 |
| zehicle_ | ideally both - we'd like to be able to vote on gating based on multi-node & multi-os deploys | 16:56 |
| primeministerp | agreed | 16:56 |
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| zehicle_ | but even getting a refstack report would be a good step | 16:57 |
| alexpilotti | +1000 | 16:57 |
| primeministerp | alexpilotti: if you want to put resources on tempest then feel free | 16:57 |
| primeministerp | alexpilotti: it's on the list of todo's and sooner is always better | 16:57 |
| alexpilotti | yep, I will | 16:57 |
| primeministerp | alexpilotti: excellent | 16:57 |
| primeministerp | looks like we're almost out of time | 16:57 |
| alexpilotti | Starting already from this week | 16:57 |
| primeministerp | alexpilotti: good | 16:58 |
| primeministerp | so additional comments? | 16:58 |
| primeministerp | alrighty then, i'll end it | 16:58 |
| primeministerp | thanks everyone for the time | 16:58 |
| primeministerp | #endmeeting | 16:58 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 16:58 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Jul 16 16:58:51 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 16:58 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/hyper_v/2013/hyper_v.2013-07-16-16.06.html | 16:58 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/hyper_v/2013/hyper_v.2013-07-16-16.06.txt | 16:58 |
| alexpilotti | bye! | 16:58 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/hyper_v/2013/hyper_v.2013-07-16-16.06.log.html | 16:58 |
| zehicle_ | bye | 16:58 |
| ociuhandu | bye all | 16:59 |
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| ayoung | Keystoners Untie! | 18:00 |
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| ayoung | \O\ | 18:00 |
| dolphm | o/ | 18:00 |
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| dolphm | #startmeeting keystone | 18:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Jul 16 18:00:20 2013 UTC. The chair is dolphm. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 18:00 |
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| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 18:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'keystone' | 18:00 |
| gyee | \o | 18:00 |
| henrynash | hi there | 18:00 |
| lbragstad | Hey | 18:00 |
| jamielennox | hello | 18:00 |
| bknudson | hi | 18:00 |
| dolphm | #topic Havana-m2 milestone-proposed | 18:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Havana-m2 milestone-proposed (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:00 | |
| spzala | Hi | 18:00 |
| dolphm | is being cut today! | 18:00 |
| ayoung | coolness | 18:01 |
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| gyee | today = end of day today? :) | 18:01 |
| henrynash | are we all closed off for submissions? | 18:01 |
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| dolphm | henrynash: not yet | 18:01 |
| henrynash | :-) | 18:01 |
| dolphm | gyee: yes | 18:01 |
| ayoung | dolphm, I take it that means token binding is definitely not going to make it? | 18:01 |
| dolphm | i count 3 non-low bp's yet to be completed | 18:01 |
| gyee | nice | 18:01 |
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| dolphm | ayoung: very doubtful | 18:02 |
| jamielennox | damn | 18:02 |
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| gyee | code review day today | 18:02 |
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| henrynash | dolphm: so os-inherit is pretty much done, I think, I just code the sqlte migration working in the last 5 mins | 18:02 |
| bknudson | I thought we didn't support sqlite migration | 18:03 |
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| ayoung | bknudson, we need to support for the time being | 18:03 |
| henrynash | PITA | 18:03 |
| dolphm | ayoung: pluggable remote user probably can | 18:03 |
| dolphm | henrynash: awesome | 18:03 |
| dolphm | bknudson: there's been more discussion on list | 18:03 |
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| ayoung | dolphm, so is there any real reason to avoid bind, or is it more a case of "this needs more scruitiny than we can pay it now"? | 18:04 |
| dolphm | henrynash: morganfainberg has a -1 for you - is that addressed in your latest patch? (i assume you haven't submitted yet) | 18:04 |
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| ayoung | dolphm, bind is important enough to get jamielennox out of bed for this meeting. He is in Australia | 18:04 |
| topol_ | Hi | 18:04 |
| ayoung | its like 4 am there or something | 18:04 |
| henrynash | I think his only major point was on "list_projects_for_domain" which I have removed now anyway | 18:04 |
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| dolphm | ayoung: where is the bp? | 18:05 |
| gyee | we can make some serious money out of the bind token stuff because it is highly deployment specific :) | 18:06 |
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| gyee | consulting money I mean | 18:06 |
| dolphm | greeeeeaaat | 18:06 |
| ayoung | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/keystone/+spec/authentication-tied-to-token | 18:06 |
| ayoung | gyee, not really, but if it makes you feel better to think so | 18:06 |
| ayoung | really, for Kerberos it is tied to principal, X509 it is tied to fingerprint | 18:07 |
| ayoung | we can come up with more in the future, but I suspect we really only will use those two. Maybe SAML... | 18:08 |
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| gyee | hell yeah | 18:08 |
| bknudson | ayoung: my question on auth tied to token is how do UUID tokens work? | 18:08 |
| ayoung | jamielennox, can you rebase it | 18:08 |
| ayoung | bknudson, no change | 18:08 |
| ayoung | bknudson, the uuid tokens will also be bound | 18:08 |
| jamielennox | ayoung, yep just doing that now | 18:08 |
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| ayoung | just, the remote system will have to go to keystone to get the bind data | 18:08 |
| bknudson | when you call HEAD xxx how does it know that the token has bind requirements? | 18:09 |
| jamielennox | bknudson, uuid tokens are retrieved from the server anyway so the bind information is just included in that | 18:09 |
| dolphm | bknudson: ++ | 18:09 |
| ayoung | bknudson, you won't. | 18:09 |
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| ayoung | bknudson, enforcement is a client side requirement. | 18:09 |
| bknudson | so how can tokens be validated properly? | 18:09 |
| ayoung | client will have a graduated approach to validation | 18:09 |
| ayoung | we can't enforce the bind right out of the box | 18:09 |
| bknudson | so now you do GET tokens/xxx to validate a token? | 18:09 |
| ayoung | bknudson, yes. Or use PKI | 18:10 |
| morganfainberg | hi sorry, little late. here now. | 18:10 |
| ayoung | bknudson, things that do HEAD are tied to it being a bearer token. | 18:10 |
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| ayoung | bknudson, we need the mechanism in place to start changing that. | 18:10 |
| ayoung | It is going to be a journey. | 18:10 |
| ayoung | THe etherpad describes the expected enfrocement levels: | 18:10 |
| gyee | ayoung, you can easily enforce bind in a customized token provider | 18:11 |
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| ayoung | gyee, bind needs to be enforced client side. We can add the bind data in a customized token provider, but it will take some reworking of the code | 18:11 |
| gyee | just have Apache populate the header the same way it populates REMOTE_USer | 18:11 |
| ayoung | gyee, for a HEAD call? | 18:12 |
| gyee | any call | 18:12 |
| jamielennox | bknudson, auth_token_middleware does a GET because it needs to retrieve roles etc | 18:12 |
| bknudson | jamielennox: that makes sense | 18:12 |
| bknudson | so it'll also get the bind stuff? | 18:13 |
| jamielennox | yep | 18:13 |
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| jamielennox | so UUID vs PKI is a GET vs a decrypt but the token format is the same | 18:13 |
| ayoung | +1 | 18:13 |
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| ayoung | so does this sounds like a reasonable approach for H2? | 18:14 |
| ayoung | V2 is in gate, tghen plugabble remote, then token binding? | 18:15 |
| topol | when the python based decryption gets efficient it will really payoff :-) | 18:15 |
| ayoung | henry's patch can go in at anypoint | 18:15 |
| ayoung | gyee, v2 is once again at the head of the queue.... | 18:16 |
| gyee | ayoung, looks like jenkins is holding it up? | 18:16 |
| ayoung | dolphm, so, any firm objection to token binding ? | 18:17 |
| dolphm | ayoung: no, just that the other 3 bp's have priority in my headspace | 18:17 |
| dolphm | fabiog: are you rebasing https://review.openstack.org/#/c/33188/ ? | 18:18 |
| topol | is the binding mandatory or optional? | 18:18 |
| ayoung | topol, optional | 18:18 |
| fabiog | dolphm, I am. | 18:18 |
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| fabiog | dolphm, I need to check where the context is now stored in the new code | 18:19 |
| ayoung | topol, enforcement is laid out in the https://etherpad.openstack.org/link-authentication-tokens lines 70+ | 18:19 |
| topol | ayoung, even for PKI tokens it is optional, correct? | 18:19 |
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| fabiog | I will check with gyee | 18:19 |
| dolphm | gyee: any help for fabiog ^? | 18:19 |
| jamielennox | topol, yes it will be always be optional by default | 18:19 |
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| gyee | dolphm, yeah, I'll work with him | 18:19 |
| jamielennox | well it will be enforced if both sides know what to do about it by default otherwise it will be ignored | 18:19 |
| jamielennox | so it will roll out with no impact | 18:20 |
| ayoung | jamielennox, people will always be able to request an unbound token, just , in the future some service will be configured not to accept them. Right? | 18:20 |
| gyee | its only enforceable with Apache front-end anyway | 18:20 |
| ayoung | gyee, true | 18:20 |
| bknudson | gyee: why couldn't I write middleware to set it? | 18:20 |
| jamielennox | gyee, right you've really got to go out of your way to turn it on | 18:21 |
| gyee | bknudson, see if you can get that kerberos principal from middleware :) | 18:21 |
| topol | ayoung, so are you going to implement the x509 stuff by calling out from python to commandline operations? | 18:21 |
| ayoung | bknudson, because Kerberos and Client Side certs should not be implemented in Pythion for sanity reasons | 18:21 |
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| topol | like you do for PKI? | 18:21 |
| morganfainberg | topol: isn't that how we do it now w/ PKI signing? | 18:21 |
| gyee | *sanity* | 18:21 |
| ayoung | topol, yep | 18:21 |
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| gyee | ayoung, unless some smart guy figure out how to do it with Nginx :) | 18:22 |
| ayoung | topol, we might be able to get the cert fingerprint from the web server, in which case we can do it with out a shell out, but shell out is always an option | 18:22 |
| topol | K, any ETA on when python will have more efficient crypto libraries???? | 18:22 |
| ayoung | topol, I have someone working on that, NSS based | 18:22 |
| ayoung | icehouse timeframe, maybe earlier as an extension | 18:22 |
| topol | K, excellent. | 18:22 |
| dolphm | topol: whats the deficiency? | 18:23 |
| topol | dolphm, performance | 18:23 |
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| brich1 | ayoung: which of the crypto packages will pick up the NSS support? | 18:24 |
| topol | and also the consumability pain of whether it is the gnu crypto or openssl crypto and those not being compatible with eachother | 18:24 |
| ayoung | dolphm, crypto is really a python binding thing. The algorithms really are CPU intensive, and thus should be in native code. For correctness reasons, too. Python bindings need to release the GIL. But with eventlet,because the crypto is so long, it really should give up the CPU from time to time...not gonna happen, though | 18:24 |
| ayoung | briancline, python-nss to start with | 18:25 |
| gyee | what happen to m2crypto? | 18:25 |
| morganfainberg | gyee: defuncty | 18:25 |
| morganfainberg | no one is maintaining it | 18:25 |
| gyee | m2crypto was basically c binding over openssl | 18:26 |
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| ayoung | lets stay on target. | 18:26 |
| topol | morganfainberg, aren't you worried about the provenance of the crypto you will be relying on? | 18:26 |
| topol | sorry, off target | 18:26 |
| ayoung | for now, we'll havea potnetial soltuin using the Popen appraoch for crypto, which seems to be the right approach for eventlet | 18:26 |
| gyee | ayoung, no objection with bind token from me | 18:27 |
| jamielennox | the problem with the binding is it can't be done completely from a pluggable remote_user provider because it has to change the token format | 18:27 |
| gyee | huh? | 18:28 |
| gyee | token provider? | 18:28 |
| ayoung | gyee, remote_user provider, not token provider | 18:28 |
| ayoung | external | 18:28 |
| jamielennox | so if it misses h2 the only way would be to essentially fork v3 token provider to add just a couple of bind lines | 18:28 |
| ayoung | gyee, we really need a hook in the standard token provider for people to add custom data prior to the token signing | 18:28 |
| gyee | ayoung, you can easily do that in token provider | 18:29 |
| jamielennox | ayoung, maybe. do we want to allow custom data in the token? | 18:29 |
| topol | ayoung +1 | 18:29 |
| gyee | that's what token provider is for, allows you to customize token data | 18:29 |
| simo | jamielennox: not really a fan of cutom data in there | 18:29 |
| ayoung | jamielennox, well, extension data is custom data if it is not core. | 18:29 |
| simo | jamielennox: but then future-proofing is also good | 18:30 |
| gyee | role mapping, federation, bind data, whatever | 18:30 |
| ayoung | and bind should be core, but if it isn't... | 18:30 |
| bknudson | since bind is optional and no clients are supporting it then I don't see why it needs to be core. | 18:30 |
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| ayoung | so, I think the short of it will be we either get binding in core, or we have to put some hooks into the default token provider | 18:31 |
| ayoung | bknudson, optional but standardized | 18:31 |
| gyee | ayoung, what hook? | 18:31 |
| ayoung | and it needs to be in core in order for clients to be able to consume it in an expected manner | 18:31 |
| ayoung | gyee, add bind data to the token, before signing | 18:31 |
| jamielennox | gyee, if it doesn't become core then the approach would be to have a custom remote_user provider | 18:32 |
| gyee | ayoung, you *can* do that today | 18:32 |
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| jamielennox | but they don't have access to the token itself, just a yes/no on auth | 18:32 |
| gyee | token provider formats token data and signs it | 18:32 |
| ayoung | gyee, right, and we need bind data in there before signing. Easier to do in the default provider | 18:33 |
| gyee | ayoung, catch me after the meeting and I'll show you | 18:33 |
| jamielennox | creating a new token provider for this is massive overkill, it wants to be at least a new remote_user | 18:33 |
| dolphm | if PKI was an extension then the token could be signed in the response pipeline after other extensions have had their chance to modify the token | 18:33 |
| ayoung | dolphm, yeah, agreed that the token production process can be more of an assembly, with signing being the last step of the pipeline. THat might be a good Icehouse architecture | 18:34 |
| topol | whats the use case? Is thatw ell documented somewhere? | 18:34 |
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| gyee | jamielennox, since this is a *optional* feature, new token provider make sense | 18:35 |
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| ayoung | gyee, no, it is not an optional feature, it is an optional piece of a token | 18:35 |
| jamielennox | gyee, the new token provider would be c&p v3 token with about +7 lines that would have to be kept in sync | 18:35 |
| ayoung | if anyone in the system needs it, it has to be there in the registered token provider | 18:35 |
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| topol | jamielennox, do you have a use case or stakeholder for this? | 18:35 |
| gyee | ayoung, jamielennox, I would think this is deployment-specific | 18:36 |
| gyee | if I am not running Apache, no need to have this extra data right? | 18:36 |
| ayoung | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/35093/13/keystone/token/providers/uuid.py | 18:36 |
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| ayoung | gyee, this is a step by step improvement on the way Keystone secures operations. Yes, it will require additional changes to be used. But if it isn ot there, those changes will be impossible | 18:37 |
| jamielennox | topol, the point is to remove bearer tokens, there has been plenty of requests and the idea has been generally approved. | 18:37 |
| topol | jamielennox, thanks for helping me to connect the dots! | 18:38 |
| gyee | ayoung, all I am saying is we can and should make it configurable | 18:38 |
| ayoung | If we delay binding this release, people will wait until icehouse is out before working to integate with binding tokens. We've seen how long PKI tokens have taken to get integrated into the process. | 18:39 |
| jamielennox | gyee if you're not using apache then there is no extra data, the 'bind' element is not included in the token if there is no bind information | 18:39 |
| jamielennox | so if it's off then there is no change to the token format at all | 18:39 |
| ayoung | gyee, it is additional data that is only added if the original token request asks for it. | 18:39 |
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| topol | why can't a hook be provided now that allows this extension to be fully added later? | 18:40 |
| gyee | topol, the hook is already there, we are debating whether it should be configurable | 18:40 |
| dolphm | token provider merged | 18:40 |
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| ayoung | dolphm, wow, I just checked seconds ago | 18:41 |
| jamielennox | gyee, the hook for modifying tokens isn't there | 18:41 |
| morganfainberg | gyee: i think that since it is optional in the request, it doesn't require extra configuration options | 18:41 |
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| gyee | jamielennox, just extend uuid provider and V3TokenDataHelper | 18:42 |
| jamielennox | also because keystone doesn't use keystoneclient we can't authenticate a bind unless we start hooking the token auth process as well | 18:42 |
| topol | Unless you know now what configuration options you will need, shouldnt you just defer the configuration piece? | 18:42 |
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| ayoung | topol, we don't need configuration on the server side. Just on the client side, and that is not up for review. Client goes on its own schedule | 18:42 |
| topol | ayoung, are we getting to the point where the client needs to be on the same schedule as the server? Who controls that? | 18:44 |
| jamielennox | ayoung, mostly there is some server side config for enforcement which was copied from client side and there is the config to turn binding on | 18:44 |
| ayoung | jamielennox, for enforcement? | 18:45 |
| ayoung | topol, no, I think the client needs to lead the server, and then the server needs to always rely on the latest version of the client. | 18:45 |
| jamielennox | ayoung, telling keystone how to deal with tokens it receives with bind information. disable, enforce etc | 18:46 |
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| ayoung | dolphm gets to say when we release a new verision of the client, usually on a month by month basis, right? | 18:46 |
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| dolphm | henrynash: can you revise the comment in etc/keystone.conf.sample ? | 18:46 |
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| dolphm | henrynash: it looks like you copy/pasted from the trust one which is inaccurate for os-inherit | 18:47 |
| gyee | dolphm, you have a PO Box for folks to send money to in case they need the client faster? :) | 18:47 |
| henrynash | dolphmL oops…! :-) | 18:47 |
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| dolphm | ayoung: as needed | 18:47 |
| henrynash | dolphm: will do | 18:47 |
| morganfainberg | gyee: lol | 18:47 |
| dolphm | ayoung: do we need to do a release? | 18:47 |
| ayoung | dolphm, not yet, not for this. | 18:47 |
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| ayoung | dolphm, just explaining. | 18:48 |
| topol | seems like the current situation my need tighter release synchronization to get things right | 18:48 |
| dolphm | ayoung: just poke me anytime | 18:48 |
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| dolphm | henrynash: also grep for 'inerit' | 18:48 |
| bknudson | clients will either get bind in the token or not get bind | 18:48 |
| bknudson | and they'll either use it or not use it | 18:48 |
| henrynash | dolphm: yep, I can't seem to type that right :-) | 18:49 |
| ayoung | bknudson, yep | 18:49 |
| ayoung | bknudson, and we want this in as an enabling feature. Other projects need to build on it. | 18:49 |
| bknudson | I assume the client just ignores bind if it gets it in a token now | 18:49 |
| ayoung | Which is really the reason we are doing feature freeze in H2 | 18:49 |
| morganfainberg | ayoung: the client throws out unknown data right? e.g. current one sees a bind, it would be ignored? | 18:49 |
| ayoung | morganfainberg, correct | 18:49 |
| jamielennox | bknudson, yes - it'd just be random extra data | 18:50 |
| dolphm | whoa, what did i push to get this modal thing going on? http://i.imgur.com/O1Af1kf.png | 18:50 |
| ayoung | but we can update the client prior to H3 and allow a service to be able to use it. So it really should be in H2 | 18:50 |
| morganfainberg | then i see no problems with the way it's released now. server supports everything, we shore up client to match. etc. etc etc. or even vice-versa | 18:50 |
| morganfainberg | dolphm: where did you click to see that? | 18:50 |
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| dolphm | morganfainberg: that's what i want to know | 18:51 |
| topol | dolphm, doesnt it go away if you move the cursor? I saw that too | 18:51 |
| bknudson | dolphm: probably f | 18:51 |
| morganfainberg | dolphm: "f" | 18:51 |
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| morganfainberg | ayoung: +1 on that timeline. | 18:52 |
| ayoung | reviews for bind API https://review.openstack.org/#/c/36166/ and server imp https://review.openstack.org/#/c/35093/ | 18:53 |
| ayoung | please lets get this in today | 18:53 |
| ayoung | plugable remote is probably ready to go: | 18:54 |
| ayoung | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/36839/6 | 18:54 |
| ayoung | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/36166/ | 18:54 |
| morganfainberg | oh, i meantt o look that pluggable remote one over this morning. | 18:54 |
| topol | ayoung, I will review today | 18:55 |
| ayoung | gyee, you are right, plugable is breaking backwards compat. I will fix that. | 18:55 |
| gyee | ayoung, I am good with the bind token spec, will push a patch for the remote user plugin to show my angle | 18:56 |
| ayoung | gyee, sounds good. | 18:57 |
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| dolphm | gyee: ayoung: how is backwards compat broken? | 18:57 |
| ayoung | gyee, so external won't be specified in the token request, but instead we will look for the plugin labled "external" in the set of registered plugins? | 18:58 |
| gyee | ayoung, yes | 18:58 |
| ayoung | dolphm, I turned realm into domain name | 18:58 |
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| ayoung | dolphm, that is the "right" solution, but not what is currently implemented | 18:58 |
| gyee | dolphm, the current impl doesn't allow explicit scope | 18:58 |
| topol | ayoung, you will document that, correct? | 18:58 |
| ayoung | dolphm, so I will make it so the default provider does what is now, and leave the other logic as an alternative provider | 18:58 |
| ayoung | topol, yes, | 18:59 |
| dolphm | ayoung: ah, that's exactly what i was just looking at. cool. | 18:59 |
| dolphm | happy code reviewing! | 19:00 |
| dolphm | #endmeeting | 19:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 19:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Jul 16 19:00:05 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 19:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2013/keystone.2013-07-16-18.00.html | 19:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2013/keystone.2013-07-16-18.00.txt | 19:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2013/keystone.2013-07-16-18.00.log.html | 19:00 |
| *** fabiog has quit IRC | 19:00 | |
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| jeblair | hello infra people | 19:00 |
| clarkb | o/ | 19:00 |
| dhellmann | o/ | 19:00 |
| fungi | heya | 19:00 |
| pleia2 | o/ | 19:01 |
| ayoung | gyee, OK, I can do that | 19:01 |
| mordred | o/ | 19:01 |
| jeblair | #startmeeting infra | 19:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Jul 16 19:01:45 2013 UTC. The chair is jeblair. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 19:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 19:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'infra' | 19:01 |
| olaph | o/ | 19:01 |
| jeblair | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/InfraTeamMeeting | 19:01 |
| jeblair | there's the agenda | 19:01 |
| jeblair | pabelanger, russellb: around? | 19:02 |
| pabelanger | jeblair, 0/ | 19:02 |
| russellb | hi | 19:02 |
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| jeblair | #topic Asterisk server (jeblair, pabelanger, russelb) | 19:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Asterisk server (jeblair, pabelanger, russelb) (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:02 | |
| zaro | o/ | 19:02 |
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| morganfainberg | ooh asterisk. | 19:03 |
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| russellb | yeah, so, happy to hack out some configs ... could probably use some help getting the server basic setup done though | 19:03 |
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| anteaya | o/ | 19:03 |
| jeblair | so it sounds like we have a plan... i mostly wanted us to get together in real time and make sure we're on the same page.. | 19:03 |
| russellb | basically given a workspace for us to hack out configs | 19:03 |
| russellb | sure | 19:03 |
| pabelanger | I already have a base set of configs we could start with, I use them for all my installation | 19:04 |
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| pabelanger | good rounded defaults | 19:04 |
| russellb | k | 19:04 |
| jeblair | russellb: so we have a base class in puppet for servers, so most of the generic running a server overhead is taken care of | 19:04 |
| pabelanger | leif and I came up with them | 19:04 |
| russellb | jeblair: ok, so the "adding a new server" docs cover it? | 19:04 |
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| fungi | so we mainly just need a skeleton for the server (pbx.openstack.org? something else?) and fire up a centos6 machine called that | 19:04 |
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| jlk | o/ | 19:05 |
| russellb | pbx.openstack.org sounds good | 19:05 |
| russellb | and probably some DNS SRV records | 19:05 |
| russellb | but we can add that later ... | 19:05 |
| jeblair | russellb: yeah, and maybe use pleia2's cgit change as an example | 19:05 |
| jeblair | russellb: it's the first centos server we have | 19:05 |
| russellb | ok cool | 19:05 |
| jeblair | pleia2: is that in review? | 19:05 |
| pleia2 | yep https://review.openstack.org/36709 | 19:05 |
| clarkb | jeblair: russellb pleia2 it is in review | 19:05 |
| jeblair | #link https://review.openstack.org/36709 | 19:06 |
| pabelanger | Is this just for conferencing or are we actually provisioning extensions? | 19:06 |
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| jeblair | so even just getting a change in that sets up that server and otherwise doesn't do anything is something we can work with | 19:06 |
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| jeblair | once that's merged, we can actually spin it up, and then iterate on it | 19:06 |
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| russellb | jeblair: that sounds good | 19:06 |
| russellb | pabelanger: my impression is just a conferencing server, right jeblair ? | 19:07 |
| jeblair | pabelanger, russellb: feel free to also propose a change that adds your ssh keys to that server; as i expect you're going to want root on it to debug, etc | 19:07 |
| russellb | so, public conferencing access, and a SIP provider for inbound access | 19:07 |
| jeblair | (though we're going to want all the actual config in puppet) | 19:07 |
| russellb | yeah, will probably need root. | 19:07 |
| russellb | well, ability to debug | 19:07 |
| jeblair | russellb: yes, just a conf server | 19:07 |
| russellb | ok cool | 19:07 |
| russellb | so very little in terms of accounts ... just the provider setup | 19:08 |
| russellb | that lightens up the config quite a bit | 19:08 |
| morganfainberg | russellb: if you need any help (not that there is a lack of it) I'd be happy to dust off my old asterisk knowledge. | 19:08 |
| fungi | if we decide we want to make use of other features later, we can light those up when the time comes | 19:08 |
| pabelanger | Ya, all of the configuration of asterisk is puppet, is going to be tricky. But we can figure something out | 19:08 |
| russellb | morganfainberg: cool thing about how infra works is that anyone can contribute, just like you contribute to code :-) | 19:08 |
| russellb | i was hoping we could make it simple, as in, please install these files | 19:09 |
| morganfainberg | russellb: nod. | 19:09 |
| russellb | with a bit of the template magic for secret bits | 19:09 |
| jeblair | russellb: yeah, i think that will work | 19:09 |
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| russellb | k | 19:09 |
| russellb | time for me to figure out how to not be a puppet noob :-) | 19:09 |
| jeblair | we can also subscribe asterisk to those files so that when they are changed, we run /etc/init.d/asterisk reload automatically | 19:09 |
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| pabelanger | jeblair, we can actually reload specific modules, it works better | 19:10 |
| pabelanger | less downtime :) | 19:10 |
| fungi | fwiw, "please install these files with a bit of the template magic for secret bits" is more or less a description of most of the servers we've puppeted | 19:10 |
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| mordred | ++ | 19:10 |
| russellb | fungi: cool, will look at others then | 19:10 |
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| jeblair | pabelanger: i'd imagine so (as long as there's a way to run that from the shell) | 19:11 |
| pabelanger | There is | 19:11 |
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| russellb | ok, so, first step, get skeleton server up that does nothing, i can take a stab at that | 19:12 |
| jeblair | #action jeblair look into signing up the foundation with a voip provider | 19:12 |
| russellb | and then will work on getting it so it installs the asterisk package | 19:12 |
| russellb | and then pabelanger and I can work together on the asterisk config | 19:12 |
| jeblair | #action russelb get skeleton asterisk puppet config | 19:12 |
| jeblair | #action pabelanger work with russelb on asterisk config | 19:12 |
| russellb | pabelanger: sound good? | 19:13 |
| pabelanger | yar | 19:13 |
| jeblair | awesome; anything else on this topic? | 19:13 |
| * mordred thinks everyone doing this is neat | 19:13 | |
| russellb | not from me ... just need to suck it up and allocate the time to work on it | 19:14 |
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| jeblair | yes, pabelanger and russellb, thanks to both of you! | 19:14 |
| russellb | sure, feels good to make use of knowledge from a past life | 19:14 |
| jeblair | russellb: you don't have anything else going on this week do you? ;) | 19:14 |
| pabelanger | Ya, I can wipe up something for puppet pretty quick | 19:14 |
| russellb | jeblair: nothing really | 19:14 |
| russellb | pabelanger: cool | 19:14 |
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| jeblair | ttx: are you around? | 19:15 |
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| jeblair | #topic Eavesdrop (mordred) | 19:16 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Eavesdrop (mordred) (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:16 | |
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| mordred | we need to log more channels and stuff, I think | 19:16 |
| mordred | certainly -infra | 19:16 |
| mordred | possibly more | 19:16 |
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| jeblair | i think i agree about infra | 19:16 |
| clarkb | no opposition from me | 19:16 |
| pleia2 | +1 | 19:16 |
| mordred | (partially because -infra might be the most active channel in the project and people are always wanting to look stuff up) | 19:16 |
| mordred | question is - should we log the other channels? | 19:17 |
| fungi | the old argument was that it was a focused channel for a small group... 168 people in it now, so it's time | 19:17 |
| dhellmann | is there any reason not to offer and let the channel members decide? | 19:17 |
| mordred | and/or - should we just log every channel that gerrit reports to? | 19:17 |
| jeblair | dhellmann: the only reason i can think of is to manage expectations (so people are not surprised that nova is logged but glance is not) | 19:18 |
| dhellmann | jeblair: good point | 19:18 |
| pleia2 | I tend to be pro-log everywhere (would be nice to see in #tripleo too) | 19:18 |
| jeblair | other than that, i don't really care, and it does seem like something that individual groups should decide | 19:18 |
| mordred | and/or - should we inject irc logs into logstash with a special tag to make for easy searching | 19:18 |
| jeblair | hehe | 19:18 |
| fungi | as it stands, we get enough people who are surprised that #openstack and #-dev are logged but #-infra is not, so there is principle of least surprise in our case anyay | 19:19 |
| mordred | yah | 19:19 |
| dhellmann | jeblair: my only concern is turning on logging without people knowing could raise privacy hackles | 19:19 |
| clarkb | mordred: I don't think so. google can index that stuff for us and logstash is a busy busy cluster | 19:19 |
| pleia2 | dhellmann: +1, it should be communicated | 19:19 |
| dhellmann | add me to the list of people that didn't know -dev was logged :-) | 19:19 |
| jeblair | we could mitigate that by ensuring that the bot controls the topic, and that the topic has a prominent eavesdrop link. | 19:19 |
| mordred | I think we can make it opt-in ... if a group decides they want their channel logged, we add it to the list | 19:19 |
| dhellmann | jeblair: wfm | 19:19 |
| mordred | jeblair: hrm. that's a nice idea. isn't eavesdrop meetbot anyway? | 19:19 |
| jeblair | yes | 19:19 |
| fungi | if we're really worried, we can also have chanserv or even meetbot itself warn people via /msg when they join | 19:20 |
| fungi | though the latter is a bit more obnoxious | 19:20 |
| jeblair | i'd really like to have bot-controlled access list before we do things to lots of channels | 19:20 |
| dhellmann | fungi: a /msg feels like overkill, but I do like the idea of setting the topic | 19:20 |
| mordred | I'm not TOO worried about privacy. it's IRC. there is no real privacy | 19:20 |
| pleia2 | freenode's guidelines suggest that /topic is sufficient | 19:20 |
| jeblair | if anyone wants to write an irc script, that would be really helpful. :) | 19:20 |
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| fungi | and yeah, if it's not an invite-only channel, there's nothing stopping someone at random from logging channel activity and publishing it wherever they like anyway | 19:21 |
| dhellmann | "someone at random" feels different than "the openstack project" | 19:21 |
| jeblair | mordred: so maybe if you want to increase logging, mention something in the team meeting and encourage other teams to opt-in? | 19:22 |
| dhellmann | so I'm not too worried about it either, it just seems "polite" to let people know about the change | 19:22 |
| dhellmann | I don't expect objections | 19:22 |
| mordred | k | 19:22 |
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| * mordred only actively cares about -infra ... thinks that the other channels should have the service available | 19:22 | |
| mordred | unless we wanted to go pervasive and asbolute everywhere that we know about | 19:23 |
| ttx | jeblair: around now | 19:23 |
| anteaya | I like opt in | 19:23 |
| jeblair | wfm; sounds like our involvement at this point will just be to make sure that if we enable eavesdrop for a channel, we set the topic appropriately | 19:23 |
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| fungi | anything beyond logging -infra or other channels where the regulars collectively request it be done should probably be discussed much more widely (ml et cetera) | 19:23 |
| jeblair | yep; we should also probably announce the infra-logging to the ml too. | 19:24 |
| clarkb | ++ | 19:24 |
| pleia2 | I can do that once we approve the change | 19:24 |
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| jeblair | ttx: would you like to talk about storyboard? | 19:25 |
| pleia2 | should we also mention in said mail that others are welcome to add their channel to logging too? | 19:25 |
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| * mordred would like to talk with ttx about storyboard | 19:25 | |
| ttx | jeblair: sure | 19:25 |
| jeblair | pleia2: sure, with a link to mordred's change so they can do it themselves. :) | 19:25 |
| pleia2 | jeblair: great, will do | 19:25 |
| clarkb | ++ | 19:25 |
| jeblair | #topic Storyboard (ttx) | 19:26 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Storyboard (ttx) (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:26 | |
| mordred | ttx: a) think we should pull it into openstack-infra/ b) I think we should stand one up and configure the server to update when we land commits | 19:26 |
| * jeblair thinks we should start using right now, nevermind that comments don't work yet :) | 19:26 | |
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| mordred | ttx: c) I think we should use it to track its own development | 19:26 |
| mordred | and as soon as it has enough features for ui/ux, we should let them use it | 19:26 |
| ttx | mordred: openstack-infra makes sense | 19:27 |
| reed | what's storyboard? | 19:27 |
| mordred | oh. yeah | 19:27 |
| * jeblair will hack on it when it's in gerrit | 19:27 | |
| ttx | let me summarize | 19:27 |
| clarkb | ya I think most of us will need more background on the thing | 19:27 |
| mordred | ttx: perhaps you should give an intro | 19:27 |
| mordred | :) | 19:27 |
| fungi | i thought about suggesting the same thing before mordred mentioned it on the e-mail thread, but wasn't sure if it was in good enough shape to track itself yet. if it is, dogfooding it for its own development seems like an awesome idea | 19:27 |
| ttx | So I was a bit tired with the LP alternatives that mordred was floating in my direction | 19:27 |
| ttx | not mordred(s fault, they just suck | 19:27 |
| jeblair | it's totally mordred's fault they suck | 19:28 |
| anteaya | reed: https://github.com/ttx/storyboard | 19:28 |
| fungi | #link https://github.com/ttx/storyboard | 19:28 |
| ttx | tracking tasks across multiple projects requires a bit more than what your classic per-project solutions propose | 19:28 |
| ttx | so storyboard builds on the same principles as LP bugs, but applies them to blueprints (features) as well | 19:28 |
| ttx | I whipped up a POC on my free time in the last 2 weeks | 19:29 |
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| ttx | Now the question is... what to do with it. Stop/continue/dive | 19:29 |
| * fungi has no idea where ttx gets free time | 19:29 | |
| * mordred is strongly voting on dive | 19:29 | |
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| pleia2 | neat | 19:29 |
| ttx | I think "dive" may be a bit optimistic/premature | 19:30 |
| ttx | but | 19:30 |
| mordred | well, by dive I mean continue | 19:30 |
| jeblair | dive dive dive | 19:30 |
| * reed bows at ttx | 19:30 | |
| jeblair | down periscope! | 19:30 |
| fungi | dam the torpedoes | 19:30 |
| ttx | but that's mostly due to what *I* can dedicate to it in the next month(s) | 19:30 |
| mordred | and by continue, I mean continue with the intent that we will make it work, rather than continuing to see if we think it's a good idea | 19:30 |
| dhellmann | +1 | 19:30 |
| mordred | I've asked davidlenwell to start hacking on it | 19:30 |
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| mordred | also, anteaya has been wanting to learn some things about django | 19:31 |
| ttx | demo at http://storyboard.thyone.net for the next hours | 19:31 |
| ttx | for those playing at home | 19:31 |
| mordred | and jeblair and I will probably pitch in once we land it in gerrit | 19:31 |
| jeblair | basically, i know that if it satisfies ttx, it will statisfy everyone else. | 19:31 |
| anteaya | with mordred's hand behind my back | 19:31 |
| jeblair | i will pitch in | 19:31 |
| reed | ttx, stories can also be blueprints? | 19:31 |
| mordred | bikeshed: a) we might want to keep calling features blueprints - all the business types aroud openstack seem to have picked up that word | 19:31 |
| ttx | The trick with spinning one up early is the pain with database schema transitions | 19:31 |
| ttx | reed: yes | 19:32 |
| jeblair | and a django app means likely contributions from other openstack hackers | 19:32 |
| mordred | ttx: I hear django is good at those | 19:32 |
| clarkb | any concerns about automatic deployment with django? | 19:32 |
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| ttx | mordred: I must have been missing something then :) | 19:32 |
| fungi | mordred: businessspeak sounds like a themeable option | 19:32 |
| clarkb | we have had problems with graphite and askbot | 19:32 |
| jeblair | clarkb: we don't deploy askbot | 19:32 |
| mordred | fungi: well, I specifically meant for openstack process | 19:32 |
| ttx | technically it's based on django and bootstrap | 19:32 |
| jeblair | clarkb: and we have had no problems with automatic graphite deployment | 19:32 |
| mordred | fungi: all of our language is around "blueprints" | 19:32 |
| clarkb | jeblair: no, but deployment was one of the reasons for that :) | 19:33 |
| ttx | because I'm a lazy beast | 19:33 |
| mordred | also - more importantly - what do we want to call the hostname? | 19:33 |
| jeblair | clarkb: no, askbot was the reason for that | 19:33 |
| reed | mordred, call it storyboard :) | 19:33 |
| mordred | I think if we're going to run something as important like this ourselves, we'll want a rock-solid story on deployment and upgrade | 19:33 |
| mordred | so stubbing our toes on that before it matters | 19:33 |
| mordred | I think is important | 19:33 |
| mordred | reed: storyboard.openstack.org ? | 19:33 |
| ttx | mordred: I think we need slightly more progress before spinning one up | 19:33 |
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| pleia2 | not thrilled with hostnames that are the software name | 19:34 |
| mordred | ttx: ok. do you have a sense of how much progress? | 19:34 |
| reed | mordred, why not? | 19:34 |
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| ttx | mordred: see the alpha-1 milestone on the github issues | 19:34 |
| reed | pleia2, the software in this case has a very distinctive and meaningful name | 19:34 |
| mordred | ttx: great. | 19:34 |
| ttx | mordred: something like 2/3 more weeks | 19:35 |
| pleia2 | reed: this is probably a bikeshed anyway :) | 19:35 |
| reed | yeah | 19:35 |
| fungi | pleia2: you would prefer something like tasks.openstack.org then? | 19:35 |
| ttx | especially if after infra-ing it some people take pieces of it | 19:35 |
| pleia2 | fungi: yeah | 19:35 |
| mordred | bikeshed bikeshed bikeshed bikeshed | 19:35 |
| mordred | whee! bikeshed | 19:35 |
| mordred | :) | 19:35 |
| jeblair | bikeshed.openstack.org | 19:35 |
| fungi | pink | 19:35 |
| mordred | zomg | 19:35 |
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| mordred | jeblair has never been more correct | 19:35 |
| reed | ah! make sure that pictures can be added in the tasks | 19:36 |
| ttx | nih.openstack.org ? | 19:36 |
| mordred | we should at least have that as a vhost | 19:36 |
| jeblair | ttx: actually, you should consider renaming the project to bikeshed. :) | 19:36 |
| mordred | ttx: hah | 19:36 |
| mordred | or nih | 19:36 |
| ttx | I like storyboard :P | 19:36 |
| nati_ueno | +1 | 19:36 |
| fungi | it conjures up nice quiet images of story time | 19:36 |
| fungi | rather than the harsh reality of what it will eventually contain | 19:37 |
| ttx | it's about cutting a story into tasks after all. | 19:37 |
| anteaya | I like storyboard too | 19:37 |
| ttx | but then the host can be named whatever, especially if temporary :) | 19:37 |
| jeblair | action #mordred keep berating ttx until he agrees to start running storyboard in CD immediately | 19:37 |
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| jeblair | mordred already has a change in review to import it into gerrit | 19:38 |
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| clarkb | I couldn't resist playing with the demo and this is really awesome for just 2 weeks of free time work | 19:39 |
| clarkb | +1 to continue | 19:39 |
| jeblair | ttx: anyway, i love it and i'm very excited about it. thanks for hacking on it. :) | 19:39 |
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| ttx | I'm also more than happy to see people that actually have some experience in Django move in | 19:39 |
| ttx | since this was also a way for me to play with Django+Bootstrap a bit | 19:40 |
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| ttx | jeblair: eof | 19:40 |
| jeblair | #topic Zuul upgrade (jeblair) | 19:40 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Zuul upgrade (jeblair) (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:40 | |
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| jeblair | so i think the next change going into zuul warrants a note to the ML | 19:41 |
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| clarkb | definitely as I expect it to initially cause some confusion | 19:41 |
| jeblair | we will start kicking changes out of the queue immediately if they can't merge with the changes ahead of them in the queue | 19:41 |
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| jeblair | this was something we decided to do at the H summit to improve throughput | 19:41 |
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| dhellmann | that's just for the gate, right? | 19:42 |
| jeblair | but it is potentially confusing to devs (and indeed may occasionally kick a change out that actually could have merged) | 19:42 |
| jeblair | dhellmann: yep | 19:42 |
| jeblair | the message it leaves in gerrit should be meaningful/useful to devs | 19:42 |
| dhellmann | is there a way to fix a change other than waiting for others to land and rebasing? | 19:42 |
| fungi | i think if it's couched that interdependent changes which need one another to merge in order on a particular project should be in gerrit as dependent changes, then it's not terribly confusing | 19:43 |
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| jeblair | dhellmann: you can rebase before it lands; zuul will tell you which changes are ahead in the queue | 19:43 |
| dhellmann | cool | 19:43 |
| dhellmann | +1 then :-) | 19:43 |
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| mordred | main thing is - it should shorten, sometimes drastically, response time on changes | 19:43 |
| jeblair | dhellmann: and if you base your change on them and reapprove, it'll merge; though it will require more reviews for your new patchset | 19:43 |
| dhellmann | jeblair: that seems logical | 19:44 |
| jeblair | mordred: yes, and reduce our biggest cause of gate resets (discounting neutron for the moment) | 19:44 |
| jeblair | so i can write up something to send out about it | 19:44 |
| jeblair | when should we implement the change? tomorrow; friday? | 19:45 |
| mordred | ttx: ? | 19:45 |
| * mordred thinks it should go in now - but ttx seems to get unhappy with gate changes around milestones | 19:45 | |
| clarkb | Friday seems to be a good day for general gate affecting changes as test load is much lower on friday, but if we can get it in earlier before OSCON that will be helpful | 19:45 |
| ttx | mordred: if it can wait tomorrow I prefer | 19:46 |
| ttx | since today is gate rush day | 19:46 |
| clarkb | (this might be semi selfish but I think I will be the only core not OSCONing so avoiding breakage is good) | 19:46 |
| jeblair | oh, definitely not before tomorrow! | 19:46 |
| jeblair | clarkb: you should come anyway, it's portland. | 19:46 |
| fungi | there's no such thing as too much portland, right? | 19:47 |
| jeblair | how about i send the email today and we make the change on friday | 19:47 |
| clarkb | jeblair: wfm | 19:47 |
| fungi | sounds good | 19:47 |
| jeblair | #action jeblair send email announcing zuul change on friday | 19:48 |
| jeblair | #topic cgit server status (pleia2) | 19:48 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "cgit server status (pleia2) (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:48 | |
| pleia2 | so, I have this change up: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/36709/ | 19:48 |
| pleia2 | we'll need dns and the centos server spun up | 19:48 |
| pleia2 | once this change is in, there are a few more steps: | 19:48 |
| pleia2 | git daemon set up (clarkb has a WIP change for this that can be modified for centos) | 19:48 |
| pleia2 | git syncing from gerrit server | 19:49 |
| pleia2 | jeepyb installed w/ script to create the gitrepos config file from the projects.yaml | 19:49 |
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| pleia2 | I'd like to see this first change go in though so we can get the server going and fix up anything that needs fixing | 19:50 |
| clarkb | ++ | 19:50 |
| mordred | ++ | 19:50 |
| fungi | reviewing it this afternoon | 19:50 |
| clarkb | I will rereview it after lunch. definitely agree on the small chunks | 19:50 |
| pleia2 | thanks fungi | 19:50 |
| pleia2 | that's it :) | 19:50 |
| fungi | excellent progress! | 19:51 |
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| jeblair | apparently i thought it was ready 4 patchsets ago. :) | 19:52 |
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| jeblair | pleia2: thanks, and i think those next steps will be very managable. | 19:53 |
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| pleia2 | agreed, we're pretty much there :) | 19:53 |
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| jeblair | #topic open discussion | 19:53 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:53 | |
| pleia2 | are we having a meeting next week? | 19:53 |
| jeblair | i finally got around to writing a post about the bootcamp for the openstack blog: http://www.openstack.org/blog/2013/07/infrastructure-bootcamp/ | 19:54 |
| clarkb | I am happy to run it if people are interested in having a meeting | 19:54 |
| jeblair | pleia2: that's your picture; i asked claire to update it with a proper caption; should be done soon | 19:54 |
| jeblair | i will probably not be able to attend the meeting | 19:54 |
| pleia2 | jeblair: nice! thanks | 19:55 |
| sarob | question on publishing "incubated" docs | 19:55 |
| jeblair | pleia2: thank you for taking pictures which i did not bother to do. :) | 19:55 |
| clarkb | pleia2: why don't we say there will be a meeting in that if enough people show up I can run it | 19:55 |
| fungi | i too will be unlikely to make it to next week's meeting, i'm afraid | 19:56 |
| mordred | I will not be able to attend the meeting | 19:56 |
| mordred | jeblair: are you coming to oscon? | 19:56 |
| jeblair | mordred: yes | 19:56 |
| mordred | cool | 19:56 |
| pleia2 | also, I'm flying out to Portland Friday afternoon because I'll be attending CLS over the weekend, so leaving here mid-day on Friday | 19:56 |
| jeblair | sarob: what's your question? | 19:56 |
| clarkb | maybe I should try and do a day trip to portland ... | 19:56 |
| ttx | yeah I'll propose we skip tc/release meetings next week | 19:56 |
| clarkb | but I have spent far too much time in a car and in portland recently | 19:56 |
| sarob | training-manuals are being developed | 19:56 |
| ttx | unless someone really wants them | 19:56 |
| ttx | sarob: fixing the meeting time as we speak | 19:57 |
| sarob | during development we need various user groups and others to provide feedback on the content | 19:57 |
| fungi | clarkb: you should. also i'll be in seattle the week of the 19th if we want to get any local people together for in-person meeting/lunch/whatever | 19:57 |
| annegentle_ | it's incubated content in the sense of "we're going to try to make training manuals piecemeal from the manuals" | 19:57 |
| sarob | submit bugs | 19:57 |
| fungi | (week of the 19th of august i mean) | 19:57 |
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| annegentle_ | and I wanted sarob to get help with builds | 19:57 |
| sarob | annegentle_:"right | 19:57 |
| annegentle_ | it's not incubated as in incubated projects | 19:57 |
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| * sarob hand quotes | 19:57 | |
| annegentle_ | you guys up for helping? I think we'd probably just publish to docs.openstack.org/training/ for starters | 19:58 |
| annegentle_ | eventually we'd need to evaluate "real" training material distribution | 19:58 |
| sarob | that would be really helpful | 19:58 |
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| jeblair | annegentle_: this sounds like it's just another docbook? build/publish job, which are pretty straightforward...? | 19:58 |
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| annegentle_ | jeblair: yep, just I am swamped and asking for help | 19:59 |
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| annegentle_ | Security Guide has my head underwater | 19:59 |
| annegentle_ | and I want sarob to learn | 19:59 |
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| sarob | learn me oh jedi master | 19:59 |
| clarkb | we are about to run out of time. sarob why don't you join us over in #openstack-infra and we can provide you with our documentation and answer questions on the process to add this stuff | 20:00 |
| jeblair | annegentle_: we can certainly help sarob work through the process (we're swamped too, so be patient :) | 20:00 |
| annegentle_ | jeblair: cool | 20:00 |
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| annegentle_ | clarkb: perfect | 20:00 |
| sarob | will do | 20:00 |
| jeblair | thanks all! | 20:00 |
| sarob | thanks | 20:00 |
| annegentle_ | thanks! | 20:00 |
| jeblair | #endmeeting | 20:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 20:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Jul 16 20:00:39 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 20:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2013/infra.2013-07-16-19.01.html | 20:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2013/infra.2013-07-16-19.01.txt | 20:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2013/infra.2013-07-16-19.01.log.html | 20:00 |
| ttx | OK, who is around for the TC meeting ? | 20:00 |
| markwash | o/ | 20:00 |
| gabrielhurley | \o | 20:00 |
| notmyname | here | 20:01 |
| dolphm | o/ | 20:01 |
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| devananda | \o | 20:01 |
| jgriffith | o/ | 20:01 |
| mordred | o/ | 20:01 |
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| annegentle_ | o/ | 20:01 |
| russellb | hi | 20:01 |
| markwash | \o\ |o| /o/ | 20:01 |
| wkelly | o/ <-- for mikal | 20:01 |
| ttx | jd__, markmc, vishy, markmcclain: around ? | 20:01 |
| * hub_cap notices markwash's excitement | 20:01 | |
| markmc | hey | 20:02 |
| markwash | :-) | 20:02 |
| russellb | markwash: throw your hands in the air like you just don't care | 20:02 |
| ttx | #startmeeting tc | 20:02 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Jul 16 20:02:17 2013 UTC. The chair is ttx. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 20:02 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 20:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:02 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'tc' | 20:02 |
| mordred | russellb: do you have to cut your hands off first to do that? | 20:02 |
| ttx | wkelly: proxies for mikal | 20:02 |
| ttx | Agenda for today is at: | 20:02 |
| ttx | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Governance/TechnicalCommittee | 20:02 |
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| ttx | #topic New program application: TripleO | 20:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "New program application: TripleO (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:02 | |
| ttx | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2013-July/011605.html | 20:02 |
| ttx | I'd like to separate the discussion in two steps: | 20:03 |
| ttx | (1) Scope, mission statement, how "essential" the effort is to OpenStack | 20:03 |
| ttx | (2) Team/effort/community maturity | 20:03 |
| ttx | let's discuss the program scope first. | 20:03 |
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| ttx | Personally I think facilitating deployment at scale (and reusing OpenStack while doing so) is an essential effort | 20:03 |
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| ttx | And I think the current program mission statement captures that well. | 20:03 |
| russellb | +1 | 20:04 |
| markmc | definitely | 20:04 |
| mordred | " by being simple to implement" is from the OpenStack mission statement :) | 20:04 |
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| markmc | this fills a big gap in the project | 20:04 |
| ttx | ok, that part sounds like a no-brainer then | 20:05 |
| ttx | next step, team/effort/community maturity | 20:05 |
| mordred | nod. it's also something we'll need to be able to do larger multi-node gating and stuff | 20:05 |
| ttx | I'm not totally convinced (yet) that this effort has reached enough maturity to be accepted as a program today | 20:05 |
| ttx | that said it might just be due to my ignorance of the current status and usability of the TripleO stuff... | 20:05 |
| ttx | What I've seen so far are clear goal definitions and a team formed mostly around Robert's team within HP | 20:05 |
| hub_cap | we use it right _now_ to deploy our instances in testing | 20:06 |
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| mordred | well, we're actually running a rack-sized tripleo install currently | 20:06 |
| hub_cap | i find its quite mature in that process | 20:06 |
| ttx | And I'd like to set /some/ maturity bar (for the team, for the community that formed around it, for the deliverables it produces) before we turn teams and efforts into programs | 20:06 |
| mordred | and elements of it are being used currently by other projects | 20:06 |
| ttx | basically I don't want every informal team we have to think that the only way they can "exist" is by being an official program. | 20:06 |
| stevebaker | there has been some valuable collaboration with the heat project | 20:06 |
| hub_cap | ill be using it for heat integration too fwiw | 20:06 |
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| mordred | so, there's two sets of outputs the tripleo team is working on - tripleo specific code projects, and patches to other openstack projects | 20:07 |
| markmc | I see the community as being pretty mature at this point - good core group of folks, some more folks looking like they're on the path to core, a nice "long tail" of contributors | 20:07 |
| mordred | the patches are not something that really need any sort of anything from us | 20:07 |
| jd__ | o/ | 20:08 |
| mordred | the code projects are things that are picking up usage in places other than just tripleo-specific things | 20:08 |
| devananda | there's also considerable overlap with the ironic folks | 20:08 |
| ttx | mordred: you know their progress better than I do, do you think "usable by havana" (as promised by lifeless) is likely ? | 20:08 |
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| mordred | ttx: 100% | 20:08 |
| devananda | as, right now, the two practical uses of baremetal/ironic are: private trusted deployments, or tripleo | 20:08 |
| mordred | ttx: it's actually usuable today | 20:08 |
| stevebaker | we're considering adopting os-*-config code projects for heat's in-instance tools | 20:08 |
| mordred | there's just more steps you have to follow | 20:08 |
| mordred | stevebaker: cool! I hadn't caught that yet | 20:09 |
| devananda | stevebaker: awesome! | 20:09 |
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| mordred | ttx: and when I say usable today, I mean being used in a customer facing deployment :) | 20:10 |
| ttx | annegentle_: you raised doc concerns on the original thread, I think that factors into maturity as well... Did you get the answers you wanted ? | 20:10 |
| mordred | ttx: pleia2 has also been working on starting to get it integrated with CI | 20:10 |
| ttx | mordred: ok, sounds more than enough for my "maturity" bar | 20:10 |
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| annegentle_ | ttx: so I am still concerned about doc efforts -- contained in their team, great, but how do they get the word out to openstack consumers? | 20:10 |
| ttx | anyone else has concerns they'd like to voice about tripleO's application ? | 20:11 |
| annegentle_ | ttx: it's my own concern about how much can docs take on, while doing release docs, what is the Docs program responsible for? All the programs? | 20:11 |
| ttx | annegentle_: I found them pretty active at various conferences fwiw | 20:11 |
| markwash | I'm a tiny bit concerned that there is a slight conflict in the dual mandate for tripleo | 20:11 |
| markwash | mandate #1: make production deployment much better | 20:11 |
| ttx | annegentle_: that's a good question. Did you write up your mission statement ? :) | 20:11 |
| devananda | markwash: can you clarify? | 20:12 |
| jd__ | has the potential overlap with ironic been covered/answered? | 20:12 |
| markwash | mandate #2: use openstack wherever possible | 20:12 |
| annegentle_ | ttx: working on, but getting stuck on "all the things" | 20:12 |
| mordred | annegentle_: I'll put "getting some doc people" on the todo list | 20:12 |
| markmc | jd__, ironic would be its own program | 20:12 |
| devananda | jd__: tripleo expressly uses ironic (baremetal). it doesn't overlap any more than it overlaps any other openstack program (heat, nova, glance, ...) | 20:12 |
| markmc | jd__, has use cases other than tripleo | 20:12 |
| ttx | annegentle_: markmc, jd__: it already is its own program. | 20:12 |
| annegentle_ | I think their expected deliverables should include docs. | 20:12 |
| devananda | i agree that tripleo deliverable should include docs :) | 20:13 |
| ttx | annegentle_: interesting point. | 20:13 |
| mordred | markwash: #2 is in part a framing for the how of #1 shuld get accomplished. lifeless actually didn't want to call it out explicitly because he thought it went without saying | 20:13 |
| devananda | but perhaps i mean someting else by that? | 20:13 |
| lifeless | hi | 20:13 |
| lifeless | oh, I thought this was an hour later. doh. | 20:13 |
| ttx | lifeless: welcome. Talking about you. | 20:13 |
| * mordred pokes lifeless in the face | 20:13 | |
| annegentle_ | I guess I would like to understand more about who consumes tripleo now, and who will in the future? | 20:14 |
| * markmcclain joins late | 20:14 | |
| jd__ | devananda: ah "triple epxressly uses ironic" was the answer I wanted, thanks :) | 20:14 |
| lifeless | jd__: well it doesn't yet, but it will as ironic matures. It expressly uses nova-bm today. | 20:14 |
| jd__ | lifeless: fair enough | 20:14 |
| markwash | mordred: is it ever possible that openstack is not the best tool for deploying openstack? could there be a fundamental conflict between the assumptions made by deployers vs by customers? | 20:14 |
| ttx | lifeless: how about adding docs to your 'expected deliverables' list ? | 20:14 |
| annegentle_ | lifeless: are you Clint who answered my question? | 20:15 |
| lifeless | ttx: I can, but can you think of a program that shouldn't document things? | 20:15 |
| ttx | annegentle_: he is Robert Collins. | 20:15 |
| lifeless | annegentle_: I am Robert Collins | 20:15 |
| mordred | markwash: I absolutely think that other people should 100% be able to do openstack deployments withouth using openstack to do so | 20:15 |
| annegentle_ | ah ok | 20:15 |
| ttx | Clint is SpamapS. | 20:15 |
| mordred | markwash: and I certainly don't want this effort to make that effort not possible | 20:15 |
| annegentle_ | thanks | 20:15 |
| markwash | mordred: I guess my issue is, technically, I think "Openstack on Ironic" is a great architecture, but "Openstack on Openstack" maybe isn't so great | 20:15 |
| devananda | annegentle_: i would say the consumer of tripleo are those who want to deploy an openstack cloud. not the end users of said cloud. | 20:16 |
| lifeless | annegentle_: so right now we have a product in HP that /wants/ to consume it [and should have an edition by the end of the year]. RedHat are developing something built on it. RackSpace want to consume it. | 20:16 |
| mordred | markwash: well, it's not just ironic - heat is a major part of the puzzle too | 20:16 |
| devananda | markwash: except that, to deploy openstack requires /all/ the bits (image, network, orchestration, etc) -- not just baremetal/ironic | 20:16 |
| lifeless | markwash: as mordred says | 20:16 |
| mordred | markwash: and then it turns out glance and quantum are essential | 20:16 |
| devananda | :) | 20:16 |
| annegentle_ | so would heat and ironic go in this program? Is there a nesting question? | 20:16 |
| mordred | markwash: and we have roadmaps around places where cinder is going to be needed | 20:16 |
| lifeless | markwash: consider what a deployment needs: hardware, networking, service orchestration. | 20:16 |
| * markwash just got incepted | 20:16 | |
| mordred | markwash: haha | 20:16 |
| lifeless | markwash: these are all things that OpenStack is actively developing management APIs for | 20:17 |
| markmc | annegentle_, separate programs - tripleo depends on heat, ironic, nova, ceilometer, ... | 20:17 |
| ttx | annegentle_: no. Heat and Ironic would be consumed by TripleO, like Nova. | 20:17 |
| mordred | annegentle_: I don't think so - I think heat and ironic both have lifecycles quite happily outside of deploying openstack | 20:17 |
| lifeless | markwash: why would an org want to have expertise on using those APIs and then not leverage that for deploying them, since they solve the same problems | 20:17 |
| markwash | lifeless: I might be out of scope here, but what I'm trying to say is that they're kinda different problems | 20:17 |
| markwash | as a deployer, I pay for it, and I want a lot of placement control | 20:18 |
| markwash | as a customer, I don't expect to have placement control, and the folks on the otherside don't want to let me have it | 20:18 |
| notmyname | makes sense that tripleo, heat, and ironic all have different scopes (otherwise why have them), but should they be different deliverables part of the same program? | 20:18 |
| lifeless | markwash: so thats interesting. We have consumers of clouds [being super generic because it turns up in many places] that care about placement intensely. | 20:18 |
| lifeless | markwash: specifically anti-affinity for HA, and proximity-affinity for performance. | 20:19 |
| ttx | notmyname: their teams are slightly disjoint, so probably not ? | 20:19 |
| markwash | lifeless: that makes sense | 20:19 |
| lifeless | notmyname: they are quite different problem domains | 20:19 |
| * devananda deletes his post so as not to be redundant with what lifeless just said | 20:19 | |
| ttx | notmyname: if it's the same team working on it, your question would be relevant though. | 20:20 |
| mordred | lifeless: dont' forget legal-domain affinity | 20:20 |
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| lifeless | mordred: godgodgodgodgodno | 20:20 |
| markwash | its probably just my preference to "just assign the placement" manually if I'm the deployer, rather than translating my basic layout into a complex affinity dsl, that the system just tries to translate back to my layout | 20:20 |
| lifeless | markwash: so, ignore deployments for a second | 20:20 |
| notmyname | ttx: well, I'd argue that relevance has to do with scope, not persons :-) but I've got my answer from ... everyone | 20:20 |
| lifeless | markwash: just look at bare metal workloads. Hadoop, DB clusters etc. | 20:20 |
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| lifeless | markwash: I think you can see that the folk doing those workloads will have the same care that you do about placement. | 20:21 |
| lifeless | markwash: so we (nova/ironic) need to solve the same problems. | 20:21 |
| ttx | notmyname: it's both. Scope and the team working on it. | 20:21 |
| lifeless | markwash: adding deployment into it doesn't (AFAICT) add any scope to their needs | 20:21 |
| ttx | because in the end what you want is an efficient team working well together to achieve a common goal | 20:21 |
| markwash | lifeless: I think I'd just be a tiny bit happier if we pulled the "using openstack wherever possible" from the mission, in favor of that being implicit / changeable if the facts on the ground change | 20:21 |
| devananda | markwash: also, heat/nova/ironic won't prevent you from assigning the placement manually. just uses a different language for expressing it than, say, your standard CM | 20:21 |
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| ttx | markwash: actually I like that opiniated part in the statement. | 20:22 |
| lifeless | markwash: I have no objection to doing that, because there is such strong community focus around openstack components collaborating. | 20:22 |
| lifeless | markwash: mordred felt it was an important thing to highlight how tripleo is different to e.g. crowbar | 20:22 |
| ttx | "openstack on openstack" is really what this team has been working on. Stripping it from the mission statement sounds weird. | 20:23 |
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| devananda | markwash: if we pull "using openstack wherever possible", the statement becomes far too generic and could refer to existing (politically charged) tools. like crowbar. or commercial tools... | 20:24 |
| ttx | I prefer that they come back to TC to change that mission statement if the facts on the ground end up chaging. | 20:24 |
| ttx | changing* | 20:24 |
| markmc | sounds sensible to me | 20:24 |
| markwash | ttx: that makes sense too | 20:24 |
| lifeless | +1 | 20:24 |
| markmc | "tripleo without the o" | 20:24 |
| ttx | (rather than use a weak statement that doesn't describe what they do) | 20:24 |
| markwash | how about make the opinion stronger in the statement then? | 20:25 |
| ttx | ok, ready to vote when everyone else is | 20:25 |
| ttx | markwash: how so ? | 20:25 |
| markwash | nevermind | 20:25 |
| * markmc ready | 20:25 | |
| ttx | just yell now if you need more discussion/answers before the vote | 20:26 |
| * stevebaker proxies for shardy | 20:26 | |
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| ttx | stevebaker: ack | 20:26 |
| ttx | #startvote Accept TripleO as an official OpenStack program? yes, no, abstain | 20:26 |
| openstack | Begin voting on: Accept TripleO as an official OpenStack program? Valid vote options are yes, no, abstain. | 20:26 |
| openstack | Vote using '#vote OPTION'. Only your last vote counts. | 20:26 |
| russellb | #vote yes | 20:26 |
| markmc | #vote yes | 20:26 |
| wkelly | #vote yes | 20:26 |
| dolphm | #vote yes | 20:27 |
| mordred | #vote yes | 20:27 |
| stevebaker | #vote yes | 20:27 |
| ttx | #vote yes | 20:27 |
| markmcclain | #vote yes | 20:27 |
| jd__ | #vote yes | 20:27 |
| jgriffith | #vote yest | 20:27 |
| openstack | jgriffith: yest is not a valid option. Valid options are yes, no, abstain. | 20:27 |
| jgriffith | #vote yes | 20:27 |
| ttx | 30 more seconds... | 20:27 |
| markwash | #vote yeast | 20:27 |
| openstack | markwash: yeast is not a valid option. Valid options are yes, no, abstain. | 20:27 |
| annegentle_ | #vote yes | 20:27 |
| jgriffith | markwash: ha!! even better than mine! | 20:27 |
| mordred | I think yeast should be a valid option | 20:27 |
| markwash | #vote abstain | 20:27 |
| notmyname | #vote abstain | 20:28 |
| lifeless | markwash: long as it's been fermented | 20:28 |
| lifeless | bah | 20:28 |
| lifeless | mordred: ^ | 20:28 |
| ttx | #endvote | 20:28 |
| openstack | Voted on "Accept TripleO as an official OpenStack program?" Results are | 20:28 |
| openstack | yes (11): markmc, stevebaker, ttx, jd__, russellb, jgriffith, mordred, wkelly, annegentle_, dolphm, markmcclain | 20:28 |
| openstack | abstain (2): notmyname, markwash | 20:28 |
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| ttx | cool. | 20:28 |
| ttx | #topic Open discussion | 20:28 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:28 | |
| lifeless | should there be some minimum things all programs do | 20:29 |
| lifeless | e.g. deliver docs. | 20:29 |
| ttx | I'd like to raise two topics in this section, and more if you have some too | 20:29 |
| ttx | first, a preliminary discussion on devstack application as a program | 20:29 |
| annegentle_ | lifeless: depends on the audience. | 20:29 |
| ttx | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2013-July/011896.html | 20:29 |
| annegentle_ | lifeless: if you expect deployers to stand up Tripleo then yes | 20:29 |
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| ttx | The fact that devstack should be "official" and under the oversight of the TC is pretty much a no-brainer | 20:29 |
| lifeless | annegentle_: I can't think of a program that doesn't need docs so far | 20:29 |
| annegentle_ | lifeless: but. I don't think the Documentation Program can take on the docs for all. the. programs. | 20:29 |
| ttx | since it was "official" (as a "gating" project) under the old projects taxonomy | 20:29 |
| annegentle_ | lifeless: right so far we have audiences for everything | 20:30 |
| jgriffith | ttx: +1 | 20:30 |
| mordred | ttx: +1 | 20:30 |
| markwash | +1 | 20:30 |
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| ttx | The question raised on the ML is... does it need its own program or should it be considered part of QA and/or Infrastructure | 20:30 |
| annegentle_ | ttx: right, for devstack it's a nesting question also | 20:30 |
| ttx | On one hand I think the scope is pretty narrow and definitely overlaps with both QA and Infra goals | 20:30 |
| lifeless | project or program | 20:30 |
| ttx | On the other, a program is organized around a single team, and devstack's team is pretty separate from the general QA or Infra teams | 20:30 |
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| ttx | So if neither team wants it, and the devstack crew doesn't feel like they belong there, maybe a separate program is what makes the most sense | 20:30 |
| mordred | I also think that devstack is focused on dev envs | 20:31 |
| markmc | right, for me - they're very separate teams and only accidentally overlapping scope | 20:31 |
| mordred | as someone said, it's not 'teststack' | 20:31 |
| mordred | even if we're using it that way right now | 20:31 |
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| russellb | we say that, but it is teststack... | 20:31 |
| markmc | there could be a time when our deployment for gate testing isn't devstack | 20:31 |
| jgriffith | Like I mentioned I think the interests/goals of devstack are broader than just Q/A infra etc, thus my thought for it being independent | 20:31 |
| vishy | o/ | 20:31 |
| markmc | but devstack would still be essential to developers | 20:31 |
| russellb | but if the teams are separate, and QA and Infra are saying "it's not ours", then no need to push it there | 20:31 |
| mordred | markmc: ++ | 20:31 |
| jgriffith | russellb: a lot of folks do *all* of their development in a devstack env | 20:32 |
| mordred | I think infra and qa like to be involved with it - but to be fair I like to be involved in many things... | 20:32 |
| russellb | sure. | 20:32 |
| jgriffith | russellb: thus more than "test-stack" | 20:32 |
| jgriffith | IMO | 20:32 |
| russellb | i'm not saying it's not more | 20:32 |
| jgriffith | russellb: ok, point taken | 20:32 |
| ttx | yeah, I had this view that it didn't "warrant a program" but if you think of the people involved and the history of devstack, it actually makes sense as a separate program imho | 20:32 |
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| russellb | i'm just saying it turns out that making a super easy dev env also happens to make a super easy test env | 20:32 |
| russellb | and it's clearly used for both | 20:32 |
| markwash | +1 to ttx's notion on the ML about following the existing team structure / cohesion | 20:32 |
| annegentle_ | devstack is pretty essential for dev/test/doc but it's not the only implementation of such a tool. So it feels like a bake-off to me, a blessed tool, and should we enable more ways of solving a particular problem within a "program"... | 20:33 |
| annegentle_ | so I'd say, make a Dev Tool Program | 20:33 |
| ttx | the overhead in having MOAR PROGRAMS is the extra election to organize for its PTL | 20:33 |
| markwash | #vote dtroyer | 20:33 |
| ttx | so it's an acceptable overhead | 20:33 |
| annegentle_ | ttx: and the track at the summit, and the docs, and... and ... and... | 20:33 |
| sdague | the team things is where stuff is odd. devstack is basically still me and dean reviewing. the contributors are pretty varied. | 20:33 |
| markmcclain | I thought we added programs to allow us to nest projects | 20:33 |
| jgriffith | sdague: interesting point.... | 20:34 |
| markwash | or #vote sdague. . not trying to be divisive! | 20:34 |
| jgriffith | sdague: in your view is there enough "consistent" teamp participation to be a stand-alone program? | 20:34 |
| sdague | no way, I already have way to many things on my plate, #vote dtroyer :) | 20:34 |
| ttx | annegentle_: well, if I were you I wouldn't sign up to document all the things :) Integrated projects might be enough. | 20:34 |
| annegentle_ | ttx: yea. NO. Not. | 20:35 |
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| sdague | jgriffith: I guess the team criteria is new to me here. I thought we were doing logical boxes | 20:35 |
| sdague | which is why dtroyer_zz and I agreed grenade (which is also basically he and I) is a QA thing | 20:35 |
| gabrielhurley | empty boxes are only good for hiding. ;-) | 20:35 |
| ttx | So we won't be looking into devstack application today because it hasn't baked enough on the ML, but we can probably already tell them that a separate application does make sense. | 20:36 |
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| russellb | meh | 20:36 |
| mordred | I think it's certainly an app that makes sense and a discussion worth having | 20:36 |
| sdague | though the contributors on grenade are really just dtroyer_zz, me, and adalbas, which is actually more overlapping with tempest | 20:36 |
| lifeless | so I'm not entirely sure the team thing makes sense | 20:36 |
| lifeless | consider nova and novaclient | 20:36 |
| jgriffith | sdague: more of a curiousity question than anything else... | 20:36 |
| jgriffith | sdague: thanks | 20:36 |
| lifeless | where I recall there being 'hey were are all the reviewers'discussions w.r.t. novaclient | 20:36 |
| lifeless | maybe in principle they are all shared... | 20:37 |
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| ttx | The other topic I wanted to raise is whether vulnerability handling, common release management and/or stable branch management should be program(s) | 20:37 |
| ttx | Personally I consider those to be pretty essential to our mission, and quite mature at this point | 20:37 |
| ttx | It just feels a bit heavy-handed to request 3 new programs to cover for them | 20:37 |
| markmc | "product management" ? :) | 20:38 |
| mordred | I just assume that they're all ttx | 20:38 |
| ttx | But they are different teams with different goals, so that might just be what makes the most sense | 20:38 |
| mordred | and that ttx will take care of them | 20:38 |
| annegentle_ | release management | 20:38 |
| lifeless | isn't there a team doing vun stuff already | 20:38 |
| lifeless | more than just ttx ? | 20:38 |
| mordred | yes. I'm being flippant | 20:38 |
| markmc | annegentle_, some people see trunk as a "release" | 20:38 |
| jgriffith | team yes, program no | 20:38 |
| lifeless | markmc: +1 | 20:38 |
| markmc | annegentle_, and object to the term "release" ... hence my "product" vs "release" | 20:38 |
| annegentle_ | markmc: oic | 20:38 |
| ttx | the fact that I'm heading two of those doesn't mean the rest of the teams are shared | 20:38 |
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| markmcclain | they are 3 different teams, but still seems like they can be under one program | 20:39 |
| ttx | I don't really like that idea. How would you select the PTL if there is no single team ? | 20:39 |
| mordred | yeah. it does seem like they are arms of release management | 20:39 |
| mordred | oslo has multiple teams | 20:39 |
| mordred | and markmc is the ptl of the whole thing | 20:40 |
| ttx | mordred: hmm, good point | 20:40 |
| notmyname | ttx: because if they are all in the same scope, they are all working to the same goal | 20:40 |
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| sdague | yeh, I think oslo is a good model for that. In reality we've got a similar thing on QA, our two git repos have overlapping core groups, but also non overlapping +2 folks | 20:40 |
| ttx | mind you, I'm not trying to be the first to hold TWO PTL positions, quite the opposite :) | 20:40 |
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| russellb | sdague: sounds like devstack overlaps too :) | 20:41 |
| markmc | ttx, e.g. you could totally direct the efforts of release management, vulnerability management, stable branch ... without necessarily being heavily active on all of them | 20:41 |
| * mordred thinks ttx is making a power grab... quick, someone write a new constitution | 20:41 | |
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| markwash | ttx: ever notice how vish and waldon were never in the same room at the same time? | 20:41 |
| mordred | markwash: wait, they're different people? | 20:41 |
| ttx | markwash: yeah. | 20:41 |
| sdague | russellb: hey, you don't want to use where I've got +2 as overlap criteria, that gets messy quickly :) | 20:41 |
| mordred | markmc: in fact, It hink that all three of them are about curating the releases, just different elements of them that need curating | 20:42 |
| ttx | ok, will propose ONE program, looks like a good trade-off. | 20:42 |
| mordred | patches to existing releases, making releases, managing security for releases | 20:42 |
| annegentle_ | I think scale will press the need for one PTL but multiple teams | 20:42 |
| dolphm | ttx: be sure to name it 'ttx' | 20:42 |
| russellb | sdague: it sounds like 100% overlap in that case... that's different. | 20:42 |
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| vishy | markwash: ssshhh | 20:43 |
| ttx | dolphm: good point, I wonder what name to give it now | 20:43 |
| sdague | russellb: hmm.... | 20:43 |
| ttx | markwash: the model that vish hired to "impersonate" waldon at conferences wasn't so great. He fooled nobody. | 20:43 |
| markwash | good ol' bearded man #3. . I miss him | 20:44 |
| markwash | ttx: it feels like "release management" could be interpreted broadly enough to encompass the other two | 20:44 |
| ttx | markwash: yes. Or "series management" | 20:44 |
| * vishy applies for asylum in nicaragua | 20:45 | |
| ttx | but everyone has been calling it release management forever now so probably it's there to stick | 20:45 |
| notmyname | a generic "project management" would encompass it. the elected PTL would be the "release manager" | 20:45 |
| ttx | notmyname: well, tbh it's a bit linked to our development cycles. The three activities are. | 20:46 |
| lifeless | product management perhaps ? | 20:46 |
| markwash | does anyone want to take up the issue of s/PTL/PL/ again, sometime? | 20:46 |
| ttx | "project" or "product" is a bit wide. Cycle/series/release makes it more... tied to the series concept | 20:46 |
| ttx | markwash: god no | 20:47 |
| * markwash yields | 20:47 | |
| notmyname | ttx: s/project/<whatever>/ same concept, IMO | 20:47 |
| ttx | nobody knows it stands for Program tech Lead now | 20:47 |
| markwash | haha | 20:47 |
| notmyname | it's a 6 month thing. "program temporary lead" | 20:48 |
| markwash | haha | 20:48 |
| ttx | notmyname: +1 | 20:48 |
| dolphm | lol | 20:48 |
| jgriffith | notmyname: ha!! | 20:48 |
| ttx | sounds like a good openstack quiz question. WTF does PTL mean | 20:48 |
| ttx | depends on when you ask | 20:48 |
| * jgriffith is updating his "intro to openstack" presentation | 20:49 | |
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| * ttx could use a "WTF is a PTL" T-shirt | 20:49 | |
| markwash | praise the lord | 20:49 |
| mordred | political task lackey | 20:49 |
| mordred | nope. markwash wins | 20:49 |
| notmyname | mordred: ++ | 20:49 |
| jgriffith | +1 t-shirts!!!! | 20:49 |
| dolphm | s/temporary/transient/ | 20:49 |
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| ttx | ok, anything else on your mind ? | 20:50 |
| russellb | plenty, but not that we need to discuss | 20:50 |
| ttx | anyone up for chairing next week meeting, or should we skip it ? | 20:50 |
| notmyname | #vote skip | 20:50 |
| ttx | i'll be at OSCOn with... a few other people in this room | 20:50 |
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| ttx | #vote skip | 20:50 |
| russellb | #vote abstain | 20:50 |
| mordred | who in the room is _NOT_ going to be at OSCON | 20:51 |
| russellb | o/ | 20:51 |
| sdague | o/ | 20:51 |
| annegentle_ | skip | 20:51 |
| stevebaker | o/ | 20:51 |
| * markmc raises his hand | 20:51 | |
| jd__ | o/ | 20:51 |
| * markmcclain is a maybe | 20:51 | |
| jd__ | +skip | 20:51 |
| markmc | happy to skip next week | 20:51 |
| * annegentle_ not at OSCON | 20:51 | |
| mordred | aw. darn. I like you people | 20:51 |
| dansmith | o/ (sadly) | 20:51 |
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| ttx | ok, +skip it is | 20:51 |
| markmc | so, yeah - no TC quorum at OSCON :) | 20:51 |
| markwash | portland has asked me not to return | 20:51 |
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| mordred | hahaha | 20:52 |
| vishy | o/ | 20:52 |
| hub_cap | mordred: lies | 20:52 |
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| jgriffith | o/ | 20:52 |
| ttx | Please keep your program descriptions coming. | 20:52 |
| * hub_cap submitted Trove eariler today | 20:52 | |
| vishy | The waldon impersonator isn't available either | 20:52 |
| annegentle_ | I do want input/feedback! | 20:52 |
| annegentle_ | when I get my program mission done | 20:53 |
| mordred | vishy: dammit | 20:53 |
| ttx | hub_cap: yep, tahnks for that ! | 20:53 |
| ttx | thanks even | 20:53 |
| annegentle_ | do all projects submit as programs? | 20:53 |
| hub_cap | i prefer tahnks | 20:53 |
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| * annegentle_ is confused | 20:55 | |
| ttx | annegentle_: see the wiki. I heard it's a good doc source :) | 20:55 |
| ttx | https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Programs | 20:56 |
| annegentle_ | ttx: bah | 20:56 |
| ttx | need to update that to add tripleO now | 20:56 |
| notmyname | ttx: can you remind me the difference in the -ongoing and the -next milestones? | 20:56 |
| annegentle_ | ttx: so every one on the bullets has to submit prog. descriptions, got it | 20:57 |
| ttx | notmyname: -ongoing is for tasks that are never really finished but you still want to track | 20:57 |
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| ttx | like "database optimization" | 20:57 |
| notmyname | ttx: therefore bugs will never get targeted at -ongoing? | 20:57 |
| ttx | notmyname: probably not | 20:57 |
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| ttx | -next is just a way to tag stuff | 20:58 |
| gabrielhurley | If somebody opened a bug for "database optimization" I would close it as too vague | 20:58 |
| notmyname | sure. -next makes sense | 20:58 |
| markwash | "Database is *too* optimized" | 20:58 |
| ttx | notmyname: blame markwash for -ongoing | 20:58 |
| ttx | ok, wrapping up | 20:58 |
| notmyname | gabrielhurley: can we target "make it better"? | 20:59 |
| ttx | #endmeeting | 20:59 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 20:59 | |
| gabrielhurley | you know it | 20:59 |
| notmyname | gabrielhurley: like the bug of "it blows up" | 20:59 |
| dolphm | notmyname: +1 | 20:59 |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Jul 16 20:59:07 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 20:59 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2013/tc.2013-07-16-20.02.html | 20:59 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2013/tc.2013-07-16-20.02.txt | 20:59 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2013/tc.2013-07-16-20.02.log.html | 20:59 |
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| ttx | markmc, dolphm, notmyname, jd__, markwash, jgriffith, russellb, stevebaker, gabrielhurley, markmcclain: still around ? | 21:00 |
| dolphm | eo | 21:00 |
| markwash | ugh yes | 21:00 |
| markmcclain | o/ | 21:00 |
| jgriffith | o/ | 21:00 |
| russellb | o/ | 21:00 |
| jd__ | o/ | 21:00 |
| notmyname | here | 21:00 |
| gabrielhurley | \o | 21:00 |
| * markwash tries to act serious again | 21:01 | |
| markmc | hey | 21:01 |
| stevebaker | boop | 21:01 |
| hub_cap | yall should do o/ based on name lenght, to be like synchronisec swimming | 21:01 |
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| ttx | #startmeeting project | 21:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Jul 16 21:01:16 2013 UTC. The chair is ttx. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 21:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 21:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: project)" | 21:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'project' | 21:01 |
| * jgriffith changes nic to j | 21:01 | |
| ttx | #link http://wiki.openstack.org/Meetings/ProjectMeeting | 21:01 |
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| ttx | We'll cut the havana-2 branch in a few hours, so we'll spend this meeting gathering the neecssary sign-offs and deferrals | 21:01 |
| ttx | #topic General stuff | 21:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "General stuff (Meeting topic: project)" | 21:02 | |
| ttx | sdague, annegentle, jeblair/mordred: news from QA/Docs/Infra programs ? | 21:02 |
| sdague | the neutron bug - https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/1194026 might be solved now | 21:02 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1194026 in neutron "check_public_network_connectivity fails with timeout" [Critical,Fix committed] | 21:02 |
| ttx | sdague: \o/ | 21:02 |
| sdague | so we're giving it 24 hrs no recurrances then going to turn back on the gate for neutron | 21:02 |
| ttx | sdague: any plan to reenable at the gate ? | 21:02 |
| ttx | o | 21:02 |
| ttx | k | 21:02 |
| sdague | yeh, 24hrs without seeing it | 21:03 |
| sdague | we've got 5 on the clock now | 21:03 |
| markmc | cool | 21:03 |
| jeblair | ttx: i'm about to send an email describing an upcoming behavioral change in zuul; should be on the -dev list soon | 21:03 |
| jgriffith | nice!! | 21:03 |
| sdague | also I think the last issue preventing grenade gating was fixed by jgriffith | 21:03 |
| annegentle_ | Working on Doc Boot Camp in CA in Sept, more details will come as we work them out. | 21:03 |
| * ttx should stop salivate on his keyboard, I blame mordred's links | 21:03 | |
| jeblair | (short version, it will be more agressive in dequeuing changes with merge conflicts in the gate) | 21:03 |
| sdague | so I'm hoping that goes gating this week as well (going to give it a couple more days to make sure that flakey bit doesn't crop up again) | 21:04 |
| sdague | actually both the cinder fix for grenade, and the neutron one are things we saw before randomly in the gate, just worse now, so overall gate stability should go up from these | 21:04 |
| sdague | that's probably the QA highlights for this week | 21:04 |
| ttx | annegentle_: great news | 21:04 |
| jeblair | ttx: eot | 21:04 |
| annegentle_ | pretty excited | 21:04 |
| sdague | only question is if there are concerns turning back on gate things | 21:04 |
| sdague | with H2 | 21:05 |
| ttx | sdague: tomorrow most of the merging will be done | 21:05 |
| sdague | ok, so if we wait until tomorrow afternoon, probably in the clear | 21:05 |
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| ttx | and actually I'd feel better if we reenabled the neutron set BEFORE we finalize the branch | 21:05 |
| sdague | ok, will make that a priority | 21:06 |
| ttx | so sometimes Wed/Thu | 21:06 |
| sdague | lots of credit to nachi to getting to the bottom of it | 21:06 |
| ttx | yeah, that was pretty impressive | 21:06 |
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| ttx | #topic Oslo status | 21:06 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Oslo status (Meeting topic: project)" | 21:06 | |
| ttx | markmc: hi! | 21:07 |
| markmc | hey hey | 21:07 |
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| ttx | #link https://launchpad.net/oslo/+milestone/havana-2 | 21:07 |
| ttx | All set I see ? | 21:07 |
| markmc | I think we're done for h-2, yeah | 21:07 |
| markmc | can I go for a drink now? | 21:07 |
| markmc | h-3 is a whole other story | 21:07 |
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| markmc | gonna schedule a Oslo IRC meeting for Friday | 21:08 |
| ttx | markwell, plenty of code proposed there already, so might not be a disaster | 21:08 |
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| ttx | arrh another mark | 21:08 |
| markmc | yeah, some of the h-3 stuff just missed h-2 | 21:08 |
| ttx | markmc: anything you wanted to raise, apart from your glass ? | 21:08 |
| markmc | ttx, nope | 21:08 |
| * markmc clinks glasses with ttx | 21:09 | |
| ttx | Questions about Oslo ? | 21:09 |
| * ttx saves time for other projects, might need it at the end | 21:09 | |
| ttx | #topic Keystone status | 21:09 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Keystone status (Meeting topic: project)" | 21:09 | |
| dolphm | o/ | 21:09 |
| ttx | dolphm: hello! | 21:09 |
| ttx | #link https://launchpad.net/keystone/+milestone/havana-2 | 21:09 |
| ttx | Two left in the tracked bps | 21:10 |
| ttx | still likely to make it today ? | 21:10 |
| ttx | inherited-domain-roles / catalog-optional ? | 21:10 |
| dolphm | yes, bp catalog-optional is experiencing some git-review trouble, and bp inherited-domain-roles is getting some extra review attention & testing | 21:11 |
| ttx | Shall I just defer anything that doesn't make it and cut the branch in 10 hours ? | 21:11 |
| dolphm | i don't have any reason to think catalog-optional won't make it, but i'd really like that to be in m2 | 21:12 |
| ttx | ok, so if catalog-optional isn't in for any reason, i'll hold | 21:12 |
| dolphm | appreciated | 21:12 |
| dolphm | i'm working to help get that up for review now | 21:12 |
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| ttx | sounds good | 21:13 |
| dolphm | other than that, we might actually have an m3-targetted bp land in m2 | 21:13 |
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| dolphm | https://blueprints.launchpad.net/keystone/+spec/pluggable-remote-user | 21:13 |
| hub_cap | showoff ;) | 21:13 |
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| ttx | dolphm: shit happens :) | 21:13 |
| dolphm | lol | 21:13 |
| ttx | dolphm: if it makes it, just switch the milestone | 21:14 |
| dolphm | will do | 21:14 |
| ttx | dolphm: Anything more about Keystone ? | 21:14 |
| dolphm | that's all from me | 21:14 |
| ttx | Questions anyone ? | 21:14 |
| ttx | #topic Ceilometer status | 21:15 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Ceilometer status (Meeting topic: project)" | 21:15 | |
| ttx | jd__: hey | 21:15 |
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| ttx | #link https://launchpad.net/ceilometer/+milestone/havana-2 | 21:15 |
| jd__ | o/ | 21:15 |
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| ttx | Looks all set, a few more hours to land that Low otherwise I'll just defer it | 21:15 |
| jd__ | ack | 21:15 |
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| ttx | About bug 1193906, looks like it's not on track to be fixed before Thursday... | 21:16 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1193906 in ceilometer "Unable to sort data with MongoDB" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1193906 | 21:16 |
| jd__ | it might get in since it should be ready by now | 21:16 |
| * ttx refreshes | 21:16 | |
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| jd__ | only needs a +2 on that bug | 21:16 |
| jd__ | dhellmann_: might do that soon :) | 21:16 |
| ttx | jd__: if it lands too late we can backport it to the milestone-proposed branch anyway | 21:16 |
| ttx | I'll keep it on the target list | 21:16 |
| jd__ | ok | 21:17 |
| ttx | jd__: may I cut the branch early tomorrow morning with what's in ? | 21:17 |
| jd__ | ttx: yes | 21:17 |
| ttx | jd__: anything else you wanted to mention ? | 21:17 |
| jd__ | nop | 21:17 |
| ttx | Your H3 is large but mostly Low stuff, so ttx.py didn't turn red | 21:17 |
| ttx | Questions on Ceilometer ? | 21:18 |
| ttx | #topic Swift status | 21:18 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Swift status (Meeting topic: project)" | 21:18 | |
| notmyname | hi | 21:18 |
| ttx | notmyname: o/ | 21:18 |
| ttx | #link https://launchpad.net/swift/+milestone/1.9.1 | 21:18 |
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| ttx | Not a lot on your list yet, but those are the early days :) | 21:18 |
| ttx | notmyname: anything you wanted to raise ? | 21:19 |
| notmyname | ya, not a lot to talk about yet for a release | 21:19 |
| notmyname | we talked about adding erasure codes to swift: http://swiftstack.com/blog/2013/07/10/erasure-codes-with-openstack-swift/ | 21:19 |
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| ttx | yes, sounds very interesting | 21:19 |
| notmyname | I'm working on some more technical details that I hope to have ready this week | 21:19 |
| ttx | do you expect that effort to be completed in that cycle, or rather the next ? | 21:20 |
| notmyname | it will be done when it's done, but that will probably be after havana | 21:20 |
| ttx | right | 21:20 |
| ttx | notmyname: anything else ?* | 21:20 |
| notmyname | nope | 21:20 |
| ttx | Questions about Swift ? | 21:20 |
| ttx | #topic Glance status | 21:21 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Glance status (Meeting topic: project)" | 21:21 | |
| ttx | markwash: o/ | 21:21 |
| ttx | #link https://launchpad.net/glance/+milestone/havana-2 | 21:21 |
| markwash | hello | 21:21 |
| markwash | just one wee little bp left, so close! | 21:21 |
| ttx | One left (glance-cinder-driver), is it likely to make it in the next hours ? | 21:21 |
| markwash | also, I might have been mistaken about when you wanted to pull the trigger, thinking there was until thursday | 21:22 |
| markwash | ttx, I don't want to release without it. . . | 21:22 |
| markwash | well | 21:22 |
| ttx | you've been mistaken. We cut the H2 branch at the end of the day | 21:22 |
| markwash | so I gathered | 21:22 |
| ttx | but then I can wait a few hours if that's what it needs | 21:22 |
| stevebaker | what is that in hours? | 21:23 |
| ttx | stevebaker: tomorrow morning my time | 21:23 |
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| ttx | ~0900 UTC | 21:23 |
| stevebaker | k | 21:23 |
| ttx | though.. tomorrow I probably won't be available until 1200 UTC so here you go | 21:23 |
| ttx | markwash: how far is it ? | 21:23 |
| markwash | it is very very close | 21:24 |
| markwash | we noticed one issue that should be an easy fix | 21:24 |
| ttx | ok, I'll hold to get that one in | 21:24 |
| markwash | using cinderclient v1 instead of v2 | 21:24 |
| markwash | which jgriffith says should be a pretty much no-op change | 21:24 |
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| markwash | ttx <3 | 21:25 |
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| ttx | markwash: just let me know if I shouldn't wait (i.e. you realize at the end of the day that it's more than a few hours away) | 21:25 |
| markwash | ttx sure thing | 21:25 |
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| ttx | (or just defer it to H3 yourself) | 21:25 |
| ttx | markwash: anything you wanted to mention ? | 21:25 |
| markwash | thanks to everybody for the strong end push | 21:26 |
| ttx | yes, i wouldn't have bet on that result a week ago :P | 21:26 |
| ttx | Questions on Glance ? | 21:26 |
| ttx | #topic Neutron status | 21:27 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Neutron status (Meeting topic: project)" | 21:27 | |
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| ttx | markmcclain: hi! | 21:27 |
| markmcclain | hi | 21:27 |
| ttx | #link https://launchpad.net/neutron/+milestone/havana-2 | 21:27 |
| ttx | Large number still under review... and not so much room in H3 for deferring | 21:27 |
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| markmcclain | yeah.. also a bad week to have 4 reviewers mostly offline | 21:27 |
| ttx | OK, so is any of those still likely to make it today ? | 21:28 |
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| ttx | I don't mind giving you a few more hours but i'm not sure that would help in any way | 21:28 |
| markmcclain | there's a few reviews that may make it today | 21:29 |
| markmcclain | and if they don't, we can defer to H3 | 21:29 |
| ttx | Shall I just defer anything that doesn't make it and cut the branch in 10 hours ? | 21:29 |
| markmcclain | yeah.. there's nothing outstanding that should hold up h2 | 21:29 |
| ttx | (or i can wait until you get up in case you want to push a last few) | 21:29 |
| ttx | (supposing you get up at your usual time) | 21:29 |
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| markmcclain | yeah.. let's see where we're at the end of today.. and send you an email, so you won't have to wait for me to wake up | 21:30 |
| ttx | ok will cut unless you tell me otherwise | 21:30 |
| ttx | You also have a few targeted bugs on the list. Anything you can't publish havana-2 with ? Or should I just push all those to h3 ? | 21:31 |
| ttx | (if they are not completed today) | 21:31 |
| markmcclain | I've clear most of them out | 21:31 |
| markmcclain | 2 are working through the gate now | 21:31 |
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| ttx | i'll defer those which don't make it today | 21:32 |
| markmcclain | that works | 21:32 |
| ttx | unless your email tells me otherwise. | 21:32 |
| ttx | markmcclain: anything you wanted to raise ? | 21:32 |
| markmcclain | thanks to everyone for helping to get the renames through last week | 21:32 |
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| markmcclain | heat is the only one outstanding and will be completed early next week | 21:33 |
| ttx | yes, good thing that was completed in time for h2 | 21:33 |
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| ttx | Questions on Neutron ? | 21:33 |
| ttx | #topic Cinder status | 21:33 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Cinder status (Meeting topic: project)" | 21:33 | |
| ttx | jgriffith: hola! | 21:33 |
| ttx | #link https://launchpad.net/cinder/+milestone/havana-2 | 21:34 |
| jgriffith | ttx: yo | 21:34 |
| ttx | lots of new green, /me likes | 21:34 |
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| jgriffith | yay! | 21:34 |
| jgriffith | Still not what I hoped for but our complete rate is getting better | 21:34 |
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| jgriffith | The remaining 3 should make it | 21:34 |
| ttx | Those last two mediums are still likely to make it ? | 21:35 |
| ttx | ok | 21:35 |
| jgriffith | if they're not in by the time you're ready they can be deferred | 21:35 |
| ttx | ack | 21:35 |
| ttx | You have 3 bugs targeted against the milestone... anything that needs to be fixed BEFORE h2 publication ? | 21:35 |
| jgriffith | Yeah, just talked to walst | 21:35 |
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| jgriffith | Those are in flight as well, but not critical if they don't make it | 21:35 |
| jgriffith | I'll likely adjust the netapp one | 21:36 |
| jgriffith | other two should make it if we get them reviewed and they're clean | 21:36 |
| ttx | About bug 1197571 | 21:36 |
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| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1197571 in cinder "Upper bound on keystone-client in requires causes conflict" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1197571 | 21:36 |
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| ttx | the review looks abandoned, what's the status ? | 21:36 |
| jgriffith | I'll update, got moved in to the *other* global bug | 21:37 |
| ttx | still anything to fix in cinder ? | 21:37 |
| ttx | right | 21:37 |
| jgriffith | so no... there is not | 21:37 |
| jgriffith | anything to fix in cinder that is | 21:37 |
| jgriffith | technicaly there never was :) | 21:37 |
| ttx | ok, just mark it invalid then | 21:37 |
| jgriffith | ahh... perfect | 21:37 |
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| jgriffith | ttx: done | 21:38 |
| ttx | jgriffith: anything else on your mind ? | 21:38 |
| jgriffith | nada, I'll take a nother sweep through these tonight | 21:38 |
| ttx | Questions on Cinder ? | 21:38 |
| jgriffith | should be ready for you in the morning | 21:38 |
| ttx | (if not i'll blatantly defer them) | 21:38 |
| ttx | #topic Nova status | 21:38 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Nova status (Meeting topic: project)" | 21:38 | |
| ttx | russellb: hey | 21:38 |
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| ttx | #link https://launchpad.net/nova/+milestone/havana-2 | 21:38 |
| russellb | hi! | 21:39 |
| russellb | so 3 blueprints left | 21:39 |
| ttx | You deferred enough to be in good shape for H2, but H3 will need a serious reality check at the next meeting | 21:39 |
| russellb | the first 2 should make it | 21:39 |
| russellb | 3rd might make it | 21:39 |
| russellb | and yes, havana-3 is a disaster | 21:39 |
| russellb | going to email the ML about it | 21:39 |
| ttx | ok | 21:39 |
| ttx | Shall I just defer anything that doesn't make it and cut the branch in 10 hours ? | 21:39 |
| russellb | yes | 21:40 |
| russellb | nothing critical left that i really want to make it | 21:40 |
| ttx | Or is there anything in those last 3 you're particularly attached to ? | 21:40 |
| russellb | we'll get in what we can | 21:40 |
| ttx | ok | 21:40 |
| russellb | so just feel free to branch when ready | 21:40 |
| russellb | actually, i'd really like the shelve-instance bp to make it | 21:40 |
| russellb | i think it's all in the gate now though | 21:40 |
| russellb | so we should be good | 21:40 |
| ttx | https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/+spec/nova-v3-api-filter is in h3 but already completed, I'll move it to h2 ? | 21:40 |
| dansmith | 6th in line for merge | 21:40 |
| russellb | ttx: ah yes | 21:41 |
| ttx | willdo | 21:41 |
| ttx | On the bugs side... | 21:41 |
| ttx | https://bugs.launchpad.net/nova/+bug/1195720 is critical but untargeted | 21:41 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1195720 in nova "response to vm spawn may contain invalid values" [Critical,Confirmed] | 21:41 |
| russellb | hm, need to look at it | 21:41 |
| ttx | should we try to fix it in H2 ? | 21:42 |
| russellb | i will review | 21:42 |
| russellb | i suspect we can downgrade it | 21:42 |
| ttx | What about the 19 others ? Anything milestone-critical in that ? | 21:42 |
| ttx | (those which are targeted to h2 currently) | 21:42 |
| ttx | or should I defer anythign that doesn't make it ? | 21:43 |
| russellb | defer anything that doesn't make it | 21:43 |
| ttx | sounds good | 21:43 |
| ttx | russellb: anything else you wanted to mention ? | 21:43 |
| russellb | nope | 21:43 |
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| ttx | Any question on Nova ? | 21:44 |
| ttx | #topic Heat status | 21:44 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Heat status (Meeting topic: project)" | 21:44 | |
| ttx | stevebaker: o/ | 21:44 |
| ttx | #link https://launchpad.net/heat/+milestone/havana-2 | 21:44 |
| stevebaker | hi | 21:44 |
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| ttx | Same comment as Nova, in good shape but your H3 will need to be trimmed. | 21:45 |
| stevebaker | looking ok. that critical is seconds old | 21:45 |
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| ttx | One blueprint left: gzip-userdata. Still likely to make it ? | 21:45 |
| stevebaker | I don't think so, sdake is travelling | 21:45 |
| stevebaker | and there are objections to the solution | 21:45 |
| ttx | stevebaker: ok, please defer it to h3 then | 21:45 |
| stevebaker | will do | 21:46 |
| ttx | On the bugs side you have 2 bugs left. Are they milestone-critical (and worth a backport to MP) or should they be deferred ? | 21:46 |
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| ttx | That recent critical might be a good candidate for a backport after the branch is cut | 21:46 |
| stevebaker | any non-criticals remaining can be deferred | 21:46 |
| ttx | (and before release) | 21:46 |
| ttx | ok, sounds good | 21:46 |
| stevebaker | ok, I expect that one will have a fix by the cut | 21:47 |
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| ttx | stevebaker: anything else you want to raise ? | 21:47 |
| stevebaker | I don't think so | 21:47 |
| ttx | Questions about Heat ? | 21:47 |
| ttx | stevebaker: We'll probably skip next week meeting... please have a look at your H3 objectives and maybe reprioritize/defer a bit to make it more realistic | 21:48 |
| ttx | unless you're pretty sure you can deliver everything in there :) | 21:49 |
| stevebaker | ok, thanks | 21:49 |
| ttx | #topic Horizon status | 21:49 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Horizon status (Meeting topic: project)" | 21:49 | |
| ttx | gabrielhurley: o/ | 21:49 |
| gabrielhurley | \o | 21:49 |
| ttx | #link https://launchpad.net/horizon/+milestone/havana-2 | 21:49 |
| gabrielhurley | Down to the wire here... the keystone v3 auth BP literally *just* became unblocked by openstack-requirements and should hopefully merge into Horizon shortly. the Heat topology BP and the remaining bug are both waiting on Jenkins. | 21:49 |
| gabrielhurley | I expect everything to land today though | 21:49 |
| gabrielhurley | As for H3, I'm gonna start paring down the list with the team in our meeting up next... I know it's way overbooked. | 21:50 |
| ttx | gabrielhurley: if Murphy's law strikes, should I wait or just defer those which didn't make it ? | 21:50 |
| gabrielhurley | I would *really* like to get these in | 21:50 |
| gabrielhurley | I'm gonna be watching them closel | 21:50 |
| gabrielhurley | closely | 21:50 |
| ttx | gabrielhurley: ok, I will wait if shit happens. just make sure it doesn't :) | 21:51 |
| gabrielhurley | If something goes horribly wrong I'll defer myself | 21:51 |
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| gabrielhurley | if you see all green at any point, go ahead and cut the release | 21:51 |
| ttx | gabrielhurley: anything else you wanted to mention ? | 21:52 |
| gabrielhurley | don't think so | 21:52 |
| ttx | Questions on Horizon ? | 21:52 |
| ttx | gabrielhurley: same comment as Russell and Steve: H3 will need a bit of a reality check... please work on it next week and we'll discuss the results in the meeting in two weeks | 21:53 |
| gabrielhurley | yep | 21:53 |
| ttx | #topic Incubated projects | 21:53 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Incubated projects (Meeting topic: project)" | 21:53 | |
| ttx | hub_cap: around ? | 21:53 |
| hub_cap | aye | 21:53 |
| ttx | Looking at trove since we'll be pushing out a H2 there... | 21:53 |
| ttx | #link https://launchpad.net/trove/+milestone/havana-2 | 21:53 |
| hub_cap | wrt my h2, id like to quote the great joe cocker. you are so beautiful h2 me | 21:53 |
| hub_cap | get it , get it? | 21:53 |
| hub_cap | but srsly, cut it ttx when yer ready | 21:53 |
| hub_cap | its done | 21:54 |
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| ttx | hub_cap: almost markwashrthy | 21:54 |
| hub_cap | lol | 21:54 |
| hub_cap | i can aspire | 21:54 |
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| ttx | hub_cap: will cut with what's in master in my tomorrow morning while you sleep. | 21:54 |
| hub_cap | <3 | 21:54 |
| ttx | then you'll still have the option of backporting critical bugfixes if any to the milestone-proposed branch that will be created | 21:55 |
| hub_cap | nothing else to report, h3 looks do-able as of now | 21:55 |
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| hub_cap | perfect ttx | 21:55 |
| ttx | quick explanation of how this works | 21:55 |
| ttx | when I cut branch I set all targeted bugs to fixreleased | 21:55 |
| ttx | if you want to add a bug to the backport list, fix it in master first (it will turn to FixCommitted) | 21:56 |
| ttx | then target it to h2 and it will appear on the list | 21:56 |
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| * devananda follows along | 21:56 | |
| ttx | (it will be fixcommitted while the others are fixreleased, basically) | 21:56 |
| hub_cap | k | 21:57 |
| ttx | allows us to track that the fix is in master but you want it in h2 | 21:57 |
| ttx | hub_cap: I think we're all set | 21:57 |
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| ttx | devananda: quick progress report ? | 21:57 |
| hub_cap | <3 | 21:57 |
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| devananda | ttx: nothing release worthy at this point :( | 21:57 |
| ttx | devananda: sure, but are you making progress ? | 21:58 |
| devananda | yes :) | 21:58 |
| ttx | good :) | 21:58 |
| devananda | not as fast as I'd like, but yes :) | 21:58 |
| ttx | Any question ? | 21:58 |
| devananda | nope. that ^ explanation was very helpful | 21:58 |
| hub_cap | +1 devananda | 21:58 |
| hub_cap | my only Q tho ttx on it | 21:58 |
| ttx | I think that explanation is in the wiki somewhere | 21:58 |
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| hub_cap | was once we have a fix commited in h2, how does it get into the h2 backport? | 21:59 |
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| hub_cap | we can take offline if needed, dont wanna hog gabrielhurley's meeting time | 21:59 |
| ttx | https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/PTLguide#Backporting_fixes_to_milestone-proposed_.28Wednesday.2FThursday.29 | 21:59 |
| hub_cap | perfect | 21:59 |
| ttx | pointing to https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/GerritJenkinsGithub#Authoring_Changes_for_milestone-proposed | 22:00 |
| ttx | ok, wrapping up | 22:00 |
| ttx | thanks everyone | 22:00 |
| ttx | #endmeeting | 22:00 |
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| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 22:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Jul 16 22:00:28 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 22:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/project/2013/project.2013-07-16-21.01.html | 22:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/project/2013/project.2013-07-16-21.01.txt | 22:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/project/2013/project.2013-07-16-21.01.log.html | 22:00 |
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| gabrielhurley | #startmeeting horizon | 22:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Jul 16 22:01:46 2013 UTC. The chair is gabrielhurley. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 22:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 22:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: horizon)" | 22:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'horizon' | 22:01 |
| gabrielhurley | Hello folks! | 22:01 |
| jcoufal | hey | 22:02 |
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| gabrielhurley | #topic overview | 22:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "overview (Meeting topic: horizon)" | 22:02 | |
| david-lyle | Hello | 22:02 |
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| absubram_ | hi | 22:02 |
| timductive | o/ | 22:02 |
| jpich | hey | 22:02 |
| gabrielhurley | So, we're trying to cut H2 in the next 24 hours. | 22:02 |
| gabrielhurley | I'm watching https://review.openstack.org/#/c/36351/ and https://review.openstack.org/#/c/35664/ and https://review.openstack.org/#/c/37335/ | 22:02 |
| vkmc | Hey o/ | 22:03 |
| gabrielhurley | those are the final three reviews that I'd really like to see in H2 | 22:03 |
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| gabrielhurley | The keystone auth one is the only one that looks in danger :-/ | 22:03 |
| gabrielhurley | still trying to nail down client version problems apparently | 22:03 |
| gabrielhurley | it looked promising for a bit, but just failed jenkins again | 22:03 |
| gabrielhurley | lcheng is looking at it | 22:03 |
| gabrielhurley | If that can't be fixed in the next few hours we'll have to defer it to H3 | 22:04 |
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| gabrielhurley | Overall, good job on H2. https://launchpad.net/horizon/+milestone/havana-2 | 22:04 |
| gabrielhurley | 8 pretty sizable blueprints and 50+ bugs | 22:04 |
| gabrielhurley | The big one that got bumped was the ceilometer stuff | 22:05 |
| gabrielhurley | but with Heat generally in great shape now, I may be able to spend more time with the ceilometer stuff in H3 | 22:05 |
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| gabrielhurley | I'd mostly like to spend this meeting looking forward at H3, and then at the end we can do other general questions and the like | 22:06 |
| david-lyle | Looks like 35664 just merged | 22:06 |
| gabrielhurley | Anybody have any concerns on H2 before we move forward? | 22:06 |
| gabrielhurley | lol, of course that made https://review.openstack.org/#/c/36351/ fail due to a merge conflict | 22:06 |
| gabrielhurley | timductive: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/36351/ needs a rebase | 22:06 |
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| gabrielhurley | then we'll push again | 22:06 |
| timductive | ok | 22:06 |
| * gabrielhurley just loves last minute merge rushes | 22:07 | |
| gabrielhurley | okay then | 22:07 |
| gabrielhurley | #topic blueprints | 22:07 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "blueprints (Meeting topic: horizon)" | 22:07 | |
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| gabrielhurley | let's look at H3: https://launchpad.net/horizon/+milestone/havana-3 | 22:07 |
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| gabrielhurley | basically, we've got *way* too many blueprints | 22:07 |
| gabrielhurley | some of them are smaller ones that'll only take a day or two to knock out, but even still | 22:08 |
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| gabrielhurley | Lemme ask this first: does anyone own a blueprint in H3 they don't think they'll finish | 22:08 |
| gabrielhurley | ? | 22:08 |
| gabrielhurley | no worries if you don't think you will, I just want to try and get a baseline | 22:09 |
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| gabrielhurley | I'll take that silence as a "no" from the people here | 22:10 |
| gabrielhurley | let's tackle large topic areas | 22:10 |
| gabrielhurley | I consider ceilometer support a must, but as far as I can tell there's a lack of consensus around how to integrate it currently... | 22:10 |
| gabrielhurley | I've seen a lot of back-and-forth there | 22:11 |
| jpich | I think we can get the separate panel into something useful during H | 22:11 |
| jpich | I don't know if the ideal, put bits everywhere approach is possible to achieve during this cycle? | 22:12 |
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| gabrielhurley | Yeah, that seems to be the consensus. Has the UX group weighed in on the separate panel approach? | 22:12 |
| gabrielhurley | If we're gonna go that route I want to make sure we're making something that's actually useful there | 22:12 |
| jpich | Not yet, and agreed | 22:12 |
| david-lyle | And I still worry about the performance implications of it everywhere unless the calls are asynchronous | 22:12 |
| gabrielhurley | and I'm nt sold on the utility of just dumping a bunch of data into the dashboard and saying "figure it out yourself" | 22:13 |
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| jpich | david-lyle: Exactly, that's why the real time stuff should be in first (from my memories of the summit discussion) | 22:13 |
| gabrielhurley | david-lyle: yeah, any general integration would need to be async | 22:13 |
| jpich | Yes, at the moment it's difficult to read, especially with ids instead of names | 22:13 |
| gabrielhurley | we had discussed doing it via AJAX for the time being | 22:13 |
| jcoufal | jpich: Was there discussion about separate ceilometer panel in UX group? Havn't noticed that | 22:13 |
| gabrielhurley | but I could be convinced to wait | 22:13 |
| gabrielhurley | jcoufal: I don't believe there was | 22:14 |
| gabrielhurley | there should be if that's the proposal on the table | 22:14 |
| jpich | jcoufal: No, not yet, this needs to be brought up. Soon! :) | 22:14 |
| jcoufal | gabrielhurley: me neither, can someone relevant post it there? | 22:14 |
| gabrielhurley | jcoufal and jpich: can you two coordinate on getting the UX team to bring some thought to bear on the issue? | 22:14 |
| david-lyle | If that's in place then I think it's useful asa separate panel, but also integrated into other panels | 22:15 |
| jcoufal | deffinitely, if someone enlighten to the problem can help to formulate the question | 22:15 |
| jpich | Note the current tables's content is ajaxified, though that may not be enough yet | 22:15 |
| jpich | gabrielhurley, jcoufal: Will do | 22:15 |
| david-lyle | Just status though and it doesn't handle transient objects at all | 22:15 |
| gabrielhurley | okay. I'll leave it in y'alls hands to get a UX consensus and then get the code in line | 22:15 |
| jpich | Can't wait to have a new place that is not the G+ community to have those discussions... | 22:15 |
| jcoufal | jpich: you are aware of what is going on about ceilometer panel? | 22:16 |
| * gabrielhurley is staying out of this one and is just happy there *can* be discussions | 22:16 | |
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| jpich | jcoufal: I have been reviewing and testing it so I can post screenshots and my understanding of the background at least | 22:16 |
| jcoufal | jpcih: me too, G+ is being really bad, but at least as gabrielhurley said, we have somwhere to discuss | 22:16 |
| jcoufal | jpich: perfect, sounds great | 22:17 |
| gabrielhurley | cool. let's jump to the next set of BPs | 22:17 |
| gabrielhurley | There's a slew of Quantum VPNaaS and FWaaS which I've seen nothing on so far... | 22:17 |
| gabrielhurley | s/Quantum/Neutron | 22:17 |
| gabrielhurley | I haven't followed what's happening with the development of those in Neutron | 22:17 |
| gabrielhurley | but I'm inclined to postpone those, especially given what happened with LBaaS last time | 22:17 |
| gabrielhurley | landing big stuff like that should go in the first or second milestone | 22:18 |
| gabrielhurley | so I'm gonna bump those unless someone jumps forward with amazing code at some point during the cycle | 22:18 |
| absubram_ | :) | 22:18 |
| david-lyle | If I remember correctly vpnaad is on gerrit as a work in progress at least | 22:19 |
| david-lyle | vpnaas | 22:19 |
| absubram_ | yes.. it's in progress and there have been plenty of reviews.. its ongoing from what I understand | 22:20 |
| gabrielhurley | If it gets proposed all the way in the earlier portion of H3 I'll consider it, but I really don't want to push half-finished features this time around | 22:20 |
| gabrielhurley | we can always re-target blueprints | 22:20 |
| david-lyle | Agreed | 22:20 |
| gabrielhurley | so with that said, there's a couple of keystone-related BPs which I understand david-lyle and lcheng are still feeling good about, so I won't question those (for now ;-) ) | 22:21 |
| gabrielhurley | the Nova-related BPs are most of the small ones. I may actually grab some of those 'cuz I know a lot about 'em and they're pretty easy | 22:22 |
| gabrielhurley | Honestly, the ones I'm questioning the most are the ones that are about Horizon itself | 22:23 |
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| gabrielhurley | things like the "building on OpenStack Dashboard" blueprint https://blueprints.launchpad.net/horizon/+spec/building-on-openstack-dashboard | 22:23 |
| gabrielhurley | and inline editing for data tables https://blueprints.launchpad.net/horizon/+spec/inline-table-editing | 22:23 |
| jcoufal | Inline editation is in process | 22:24 |
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| jcoufal | currently I got feedback on designes | 22:24 |
| jpich | I will likely try and poke people's brains about the messages-on-login-page bp at some point. The approaches I tried so far didn't really work out | 22:24 |
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| jcoufal | and will share result with Ladislav who is asignee and has already some part done | 22:24 |
| jpich | There's a WIP code review for inline editing I think | 22:25 |
| gabrielhurley | jcoufal: I realize that, but the technical problems there are pretty significant. I haven't reviewed the code closely, but I know why *i've* been putting it off so long and I'm not sure we'll be able to get it ready in time. | 22:25 |
| gabrielhurley | again, it's one that I'd be more favorable to seeing work continue on but target it to land in I1 or some such | 22:25 |
| jcoufal | gabrielhurley: just to be sure, when si H3? | 22:25 |
| gabrielhurley | 6 weeks | 22:25 |
| gabrielhurley | I don't have the date off the top of my head | 22:26 |
| gabrielhurley | oh | 22:26 |
| gabrielhurley | Sept 9th | 22:26 |
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| jcoufal | ok, based on talks with Ladislav, I am not very optimistic about getting it in time... | 22:26 |
| gabrielhurley | it's on the launchpad page, duh | 22:26 |
| jcoufal | but will ask him to make sure | 22:26 |
| gabrielhurley | I definitely want to see work continue on it | 22:26 |
| gabrielhurley | but I'd rather make it awesome and land it early in I then rush it for H | 22:26 |
| jcoufal | yup, I will encourage Ladislav in that work, I knwo he was blocked for some time now with other issues | 22:27 |
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| gabrielhurley | I think trying to get the "realtime" work done is a massive project for the Horizon framework as a whole, and will probably eat up a lot of developer attention | 22:28 |
| gabrielhurley | and I think there's more group excitement around that one than any of the others | 22:28 |
| gabrielhurley | so let me defer a few of these things we've talked about and see where the list is... one moment | 22:28 |
| david-lyle | I would like to free up the centralized color pallette blueprint. I have another issue I'd rather tackle after rbac. https://blueprints.launchpad.net/horizon/+spec/domain-context-services | 22:29 |
| david-lyle | I don't consider the pallete essential and it would fall in the horizon work | 22:30 |
| absubram_ | So umm.. gabriel, can I add a blueprint to the H3 list? If I'm able to get a code review out say end of July or within the first few days of August? :) | 22:30 |
| gabrielhurley | absubram_: yep | 22:31 |
| gabrielhurley | david-lyle: fine with me, though I'm sure some of the people who want to skin the dashboard will be sad ;-) | 22:31 |
| gabrielhurley | those people should put their own devs on it. | 22:32 |
| gabrielhurley | absubram_: I've added it to the list for H3 | 22:32 |
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| absubram_ | garielhurley: super! thanks! the neutron plugin for my horizon blueprint should go upstream within the next 10 days or so.. I should be able to push my stuff out soon after.. I need to test it first in Havana as most of my testing has been in grizzly | 22:33 |
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| absubram_ | I did have a quick question about the api-detection blueprint though.. that's no longer in H3? so there's no longer a way to detect which netron plugin is being used? | 22:34 |
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| gabrielhurley | absubram_: for now just use a setting (you'll see other examples of how this works in the local_conf.py.example file) | 22:35 |
| gabrielhurley | Okay. We're down to 20 BPs now... | 22:36 |
| gabrielhurley | I guess that's *less* overkill | 22:36 |
| gabrielhurley | I think I'll follow up with some of the folks who own blueprints that aren't at this meeting and see what their plans are | 22:37 |
| david-lyle | what could go wrong? | 22:37 |
| gabrielhurley | Also worth knowing is that now the "Low" priority on blueprints won't be tracked by ttx, so those indicate "nice to have" items that we can slip without issue. | 22:37 |
| gabrielhurley | So you'll see me lower the priority on a number of things in this list | 22:37 |
| absubram_ | cool.. I'll check that out | 22:37 |
| gabrielhurley | great! | 22:38 |
| gabrielhurley | #topic open discussion | 22:38 |
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| *** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: horizon)" | 22:38 | |
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| gabrielhurley | now for everything else! what do people feel like talking about? | 22:38 |
| absubram_ | forum for discussion? :p | 22:38 |
| absubram_ | if not g+ | 22:38 |
| jcoufal | haha | 22:39 |
| gabrielhurley | the discussion continues on the ML... are we getting closer to an answer or not? | 22:39 |
| jcoufal | Not very sure | 22:39 |
| gabrielhurley | As the OpenStack Dashboard PTL I'm sort of de facto involved, but it's ultimately not my decision, so I'm trying to let the community reach consensus | 22:39 |
| jcoufal | there was just one acceptable recommendation from infra team for discourse, but not much people look very happy about that | 22:40 |
| gabrielhurley | Normally I'd say "let's start trying things and if they don't work try another" but I worry that that will frustrate/fragment the community | 22:40 |
| jcoufal | yes, I agree | 22:40 |
| jcoufal | changing tools all the time is one thing what I don't want to do as well | 22:40 |
| jcoufal | I will leave that for about 1 max 2 weeks and if there is no other proposal, I will go with the suggestion with most plus points | 22:41 |
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| gabrielhurley | sounds good | 22:41 |
| absubram_ | yeah | 22:41 |
| gabrielhurley | maybe a summary email and ask for people to give a final opinon/vote | 22:41 |
| gabrielhurley | then we just go with it | 22:42 |
| jcoufal | sounds great | 22:42 |
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| jpich | Yes | 22:42 |
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| gabrielhurley | cool | 22:42 |
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| david-lyle | There's been the beginnings of discussion regarding potential navigation changes in horizon, I haven't seen a lot of input. Maybe others aren't feeling the pain? | 22:42 |
| gabrielhurley | I think the pain comes when we try to add more | 22:42 |
| jcoufal | yeah, it also started in ML, just one answer on that | 22:42 |
| gabrielhurley | that's one that I think we're better off solving via UX group/internally | 22:43 |
| gabrielhurley | the ML at large doesn't care/isn't gonna be helpful | 22:43 |
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| gabrielhurley | but I would like to continue thinking on/addressing that issue | 22:43 |
| jcoufal | david-lyle: I'd leave that 1 week maximum and if nobody replies, just summarize the issues and go for designs | 22:43 |
| gabrielhurley | creating a better solution would help enable people to add their own dashboard content | 22:43 |
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| *** sendak.freenode.net changes topic to "blueprints (Meeting topic: horizon)" | 22:44 | |
| gabrielhurley | other items? | 22:44 |
| jcoufal | gabrielhurley: I think david-lyle wanted to point out that there is ongoin discussion and not much people are sharing issues, I think navigation re-design is needed | 22:45 |
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| david-lyle | I hope rbac will enable collapsing some of existing duplication, but the dashboard needs better extensibility regardless | 22:45 |
| gabrielhurley | agreed | 22:45 |
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| david-lyle | I have one other concern | 22:47 |
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| david-lyle | A lot of nova functionality is coming which is great, but i think we need a better approach than a new panel per feature | 22:48 |
| gabrielhurley | not gonna argue with that. did you have a thought on that? | 22:48 |
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| david-lyle | Problem is that takes some ux work or discussion | 22:49 |
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| jcoufal | david-lyle: why is that a problem? time pressure? | 22:49 |
| gabrielhurley | I think most of what's in H3 for Nova fits into existing sections, whether as added data in instance tables, extra tabs on instance details, etc. | 22:50 |
| gabrielhurley | in the longer term I agree that our organizational groupings may warrant reexamination | 22:50 |
| david-lyle | I guess the org is big issue. But more than just panels | 22:51 |
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| absubram_ | I've gtg guys.. thanks.. see you tomorrow | 22:51 |
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| gabrielhurley | yep. Let's revisit that at the next meeting | 22:51 |
| gabrielhurley | I think we should call this one for today, and maybe start discussing design issues again next time. | 22:52 |
| gabrielhurley | sound reasonable? | 22:52 |
| david-lyle | Requiring ux thought is not a problem, just pointing out a work item that's open :) | 22:52 |
| jcoufal | gabrielhurley: sounds good | 22:52 |
| david-lyle | Sure | 22:52 |
| gabrielhurley | cool. thanks everyone! this has been a very productive meeting. have a great week! | 22:52 |
| gabrielhurley | #endmeeting | 22:52 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 22:52 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Jul 16 22:52:45 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 22:52 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/horizon/2013/horizon.2013-07-16-22.01.html | 22:52 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/horizon/2013/horizon.2013-07-16-22.01.txt | 22:52 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/horizon/2013/horizon.2013-07-16-22.01.log.html | 22:52 |
| david-lyle | Thanks Gabriel | 22:53 |
| jcoufal | thanks, see you folks | 22:53 |
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