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| devananda | hi all! | 19:01 |
| martyntaylor | howdy | 19:01 |
| devananda | anyone here for the Ironic meeting? I know it's a holiday for some.... | 19:01 |
| dkehn | hi | 19:01 |
| dkehn | I guess I am | 19:01 |
| devananda | I'll give it a few more minutes... | 19:01 |
| dkehn | here for the meeting | 19:01 |
| dkehn | actually meetings for the next 3 hours | 19:02 |
| lifeless | tis not a holiday here | 19:02 |
| martyntaylor | dkehn: sounds like fun | 19:02 |
| dkehn | like have a rectal exam | 19:02 |
| devananda | dkehn: ah yea, you have quantum after ironic & tripleo ... fun day ... | 19:02 |
| devananda | well, let's start | 19:03 |
| devananda | #startmeeting ironic | 19:03 |
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| openstack | Meeting started Mon May 27 19:03:18 2013 UTC. The chair is devananda. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 19:03 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 19:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: ironic)" | 19:03 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'ironic' | 19:03 |
| devananda | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/Ironic | 19:03 |
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| devananda | agenda is pretty much the same -- | 19:03 |
| devananda | #topic API specification | 19:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "API specification (Meeting topic: ironic)" | 19:03 | |
| devananda | martyntaylor and I have been going back and forth for a while | 19:04 |
| devananda | but i think it's in a pretty good state now | 19:04 |
| GheRivero | o/ | 19:04 |
| lifeless | cool | 19:04 |
| devananda | \o GheRivero ! thanks for joining :) | 19:04 |
| devananda | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/ironic_api | 19:04 |
| devananda | that's the work-in-progress | 19:04 |
| devananda | so | 19:05 |
| devananda | anyone have qustions/thoughts related to the API they want to raise here? | 19:05 |
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| ohadlevy | devananda: how come in the api a node has only one disk? | 19:06 |
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| devananda | ohadlevy: that represents the local storage capacity, not # of disks | 19:06 |
| ohadlevy | devananda: yes i understand, but it represent only one disk? | 19:07 |
| devananda | ohadlevy: as far as how to partition that storage, we'll piggyback on Cinder's volume API for that --later-- | 19:07 |
| ohadlevy | devananda: shouldnt disk be an array? | 19:07 |
| ohadlevy | ok | 19:07 |
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| devananda | yea. this is a more dumb representation of "what resources to expose to Nova" | 19:07 |
| devananda | than what is physically there | 19:07 |
| martyntaylor | ohadlevy: the disk field essentially means no GB storage available, and is borrowed from Nova | 19:07 |
| lifeless | so the size exported to nova | 19:08 |
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| lifeless | should be the size of sda; if the raid array is jbod mode, thats a single disk | 19:08 |
| ohadlevy | martyntaylor: i get that, just assume you might need to be able to schedule based on that at some later point, but thanks :) | 19:08 |
| lifeless | if it's in raid6 or whatever, its the total usable storage. | 19:08 |
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| lifeless | ohadlevy: that what cinder is for | 19:08 |
| lifeless | ohadlevy: and it's planned ;) | 19:09 |
| martyntaylor | ohadlevy: no worries, I was working largely from devananda originally resource representations, if you guys think anything is missing or inappropriate, happy to change/add stuff | 19:09 |
| ohadlevy | what about timestamps of last deployed etc? or all of that is in nova? | 19:09 |
| devananda | fwiw, i'm trying to keep feature-creep out. there's a lot we need eventually, but also a lot we _dont_ need to get something stood up and working initially | 19:09 |
| ohadlevy | last time called home etc | 19:10 |
| devananda | ohadlevy: well, the nodes dont "call home" since there's no agent, but your question is valid | 19:10 |
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| devananda | the internal db model does track some of that | 19:10 |
| ohadlevy | also.. what about hw model etc, shouldnt we expose some inventory value here? | 19:11 |
| lifeless | ohadlevy: why? | 19:11 |
| lifeless | ohadlevy: remember that the scheduler is in nova (for now, maybe another project in future) | 19:11 |
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| devananda | ohadlevy: ironic is not a CMDB :) | 19:12 |
| martyntaylor | fwiw nodes and chassis do have meta-data resources that can contain arbitrary key/vals | 19:12 |
| ohadlevy | lifeless: well, i assume you need to map model <-> driver? | 19:12 |
| lifeless | ohadlevy: nope | 19:12 |
| devananda | ohadlevy: definitey no such mapping | 19:13 |
| lifeless | ohadlevy: there are two ways to tackle hardware specific driver issues; the first - and best - is to bake all the drivers for your environment into your images. | 19:13 |
| lifeless | ohadlevy: -> it's an OS problem. And every OS around today can do that. | 19:13 |
| lifeless | ohadlevy: the second, if you have a broken driver that will lockup machines if it's installed and the hardware is missing... | 19:13 |
| ohadlevy | lifeless: why os problem? if its a hp ilo, you might want to use a different driver later on etc? thats before the os? | 19:13 |
| lifeless | ohadlevy: is to export those nodes as a different flavor | 19:13 |
| devananda | ohadlevy: if you refer to the control / deploy drivers, that is configurable, not automatic. | 19:13 |
| devananda | ohadlevy: did you mean the ironic driver, not the in-OS device drivers? | 19:14 |
| ohadlevy | dendrobates: yes | 19:14 |
| ohadlevy | oops | 19:14 |
| ohadlevy | devananda: ^^ | 19:14 |
| lifeless | ohadlevy: lastly, as devananda says - every chassis has a specific driver, and it's up to the enrollment process [which is currently out of band] to device what driver for what chassis. | 19:14 |
| devananda | precisely ^ | 19:14 |
| lifeless | ohadlevy: the enrollment process might want to consult a lshw | 19:14 |
| lifeless | ohadlevy: and when we fold it into the core, I'm sure it will be configurable :) | 19:15 |
| ohadlevy | ok.. I just think that when you list the systems, it helps to see which hw model they are on :) | 19:15 |
| devananda | the different drivers may have very different requirements, so changing a node from driver X to driver Y is not necessarily just "change one field" | 19:15 |
| ohadlevy | but i understand :) | 19:15 |
| lifeless | ohadlevy: there's a bunch of stuff folk might be interested in; do we need to model it? Or just provide a 'description' field that a CMDB or sysadmin can populate? | 19:16 |
| devananda | ohadlevy: as martyntaylor pointed out, there is a metadata field which the deployer could populate with $stuff. if that is useful to them, fine. it's not (prsently) useful to Nova | 19:16 |
| lifeless | ^ tada | 19:16 |
| uvirtbot | lifeless: Error: "tada" is not a valid command. | 19:16 |
| devananda | :) | 19:16 |
| lifeless | uvirtbot: oh hush. | 19:16 |
| uvirtbot | lifeless: Error: "oh" is not a valid command. | 19:16 |
| devananda | haha | 19:16 |
| lifeless | uvirtbot: srsly? | 19:16 |
| lifeless | :P | 19:16 |
| uvirtbot | lifeless: Error: "srsly?" is not a valid command. | 19:16 |
| * lifeless steps away from the robot | 19:16 | |
| devananda | i'm going to move on | 19:17 |
| ohadlevy | +1 | 19:17 |
| devananda | if there are more discussions folks want to have around the API, please poke on the dev list :) | 19:17 |
| devananda | otherwise, i'll give martyntaylor the go-ahead with this spec in the next few days | 19:17 |
| devananda | #topic blueprints | 19:17 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "blueprints (Meeting topic: ironic)" | 19:17 | |
| devananda | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ironic | 19:17 |
| devananda | i put a bunch up last week, most got assigned | 19:18 |
| devananda | some are pretty broad and could be subdivided | 19:18 |
| devananda | so if you're looking to get involved and dont see something available, see ... | 19:18 |
| devananda | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/IronicWhiteBoard | 19:18 |
| devananda | for a broader discussion of what's done / in progress / can be divvied up | 19:18 |
| *** bearhands is now known as comstud | 19:18 | |
| devananda | i've got a framework for the manager service, RPC layer, drivers, and API done and in place | 19:19 |
| devananda | so i believe there's enough "meat" for folks to start taking smaller chunks and doing them in a day or two, then posting reviews back | 19:19 |
| devananda | eg, i tossed this up today for the PXE driver port: https://etherpad.openstack.org/ironic_pxe | 19:19 |
| * anteaya applauds devananda | 19:19 | |
| devananda | any specific questions / concerns / "hey can I do X" ? :) | 19:20 |
| devananda | also, if you have a BP assigned to you, and want to talk about it, now's a great time | 19:20 |
| GheRivero | pxe driver is on the way...tomorrow should be | 19:21 |
| GheRivero | most of the pieces | 19:21 |
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| devananda | GheRivero: great! | 19:22 |
| GheRivero | image_download is going to take a bit more | 19:22 |
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| devananda | GheRivero: i'd like to encourage you to post it to gerrit for early review , even if it's just a draft or WIP | 19:23 |
| devananda | same goes for everyone | 19:23 |
| GheRivero | yeah, sure | 19:23 |
| devananda | if no one else has anything about BP's, i'll just open the floor | 19:24 |
| devananda | #topic open discussion | 19:24 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: ironic)" | 19:24 | |
| lifeless | we could talk deploy mechanisms :) | 19:25 |
| devananda | i should also mention, we'll hav auto docs soon | 19:25 |
| devananda | lifeless: hah. sure, that too :) | 19:25 |
| devananda | once the #-infra team fixes PBR, I will land this: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/30523/ | 19:26 |
| martyntaylor | gentemen unfortunately I am going ot have to drop off for a while, I leave open the chat and catch up when I return | 19:26 |
| devananda | martyntaylor: np. thanks! | 19:27 |
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| devananda | lifeless: in absence of other topics, you're up :) | 19:27 |
| lifeless | so | 19:27 |
| lifeless | there is a meme | 19:28 |
| lifeless | about 'glanceclient in ramdisk' | 19:28 |
| lifeless | I find that idea worrying; other people don't. Why don't other people? Or what is it that makes it appealing? | 19:28 |
| dkehn | I'm assuming the appeal would be performance related | 19:29 |
| devananda | one of the appealing aspects, IMHO, is the "scaling glance is already understood, so let's leverage that to scale image distribution to bare metal" | 19:29 |
| lifeless | I put my concerns in prose - on https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ironic/+spec/deploy-agent | 19:29 |
| lifeless | devananda: so, scaling glance isn't well understood | 19:29 |
| dkehn | but resilency would worry me | 19:30 |
| lifeless | devananda: glance depends heavily on compute node local caches. | 19:30 |
| devananda | lifeless: aiui, glance can be easily backed by something scalable, eg swift/ceph/$foo. | 19:30 |
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| lifeless | devananda: with appropriate credentials on each machine accessing it yes - and the ceph backend stuff for that is cool | 19:31 |
| lifeless | devananda: but, thats not of benefit to glanceclient-on-transient-machines | 19:31 |
| devananda | if we assume image $foo will be in a file system cache $somewhere on the network | 19:32 |
| devananda | (whether ceph or ironic-manager / nova-compute, doesn't matter) | 19:32 |
| lifeless | compressed or uncompressed ? | 19:32 |
| devananda | then the number of times and network distance that said image must traverse before it is written to disk to deploy $alot of nodes is the question | 19:33 |
| devananda | and whether it's compressed / where it's uncompressed :) | 19:33 |
| lifeless | also the amount of latency that is incurred | 19:33 |
| lifeless | python is slow | 19:33 |
| devananda | sure | 19:33 |
| devananda | but we dont need to actually use python-glanceclient | 19:33 |
| lifeless | python -can- be fast. | 19:33 |
| devananda | aiui, glance has HTTP(S) clients as well | 19:34 |
| lifeless | but significant care is needed | 19:34 |
| lifeless | so, we have a network and hardware and can do some testing | 19:34 |
| devananda | i saw some graphs (link escapes me now) of the overhead of python-glanceclient vs other things for pulling the same images | 19:34 |
| devananda | it was definitely non-trivial | 19:34 |
| lifeless | so, I think - at best- glance will be a performance wash; at worst it will be substantially slower | 19:35 |
| devananda | which is more likely to serve the image from FS cache -- glance or ironic-manager? | 19:36 |
| lifeless | oh, I forgot to add load-management to my notes. | 19:36 |
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| lifeless | I don't see FS cache as a key issue; given a dedicated glance you can load 20 1GB images (for a highly varied environment) very quickly, and a single machine can hold that in RAM | 19:37 |
| lifeless | for any non-trivial server | 19:37 |
| devananda | right | 19:37 |
| devananda | but for the ironic-manager, that may not be the case | 19:37 |
| lifeless | that said, ironic is more likely to serve it from FS cache. | 19:37 |
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| lifeless | because it's more likely to be dedicated to the task, vs glance that may also be used by end users | 19:38 |
| devananda | if we require it to be cached by ironic-manager, there's a new requirement -- don't deploy ironic-manager in a small VM / on a 1U pizza box, because it wont have enough RAM to deploy quickly | 19:38 |
| lifeless | and thus suffer cache pressure frmo other images | 19:38 |
| devananda | heh | 19:38 |
| devananda | besides image manipulation, ironic should be pretty low overhead. | 19:38 |
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| devananda | push the image downloading out to the ramdisk, and what major resource consumption is left? | 19:39 |
| devananda | (nothing that i am aware of) | 19:39 |
| lifeless | you can overload the network and slow everything down if you're not careful | 19:40 |
| lifeless | so you'll need to manage that complexity | 19:40 |
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| lifeless | - force deploys into rolling mode rather than all at once | 19:40 |
| devananda | that's not unique to the in-ramdisk situation | 19:40 |
| devananda | the same is true if ironic is caching the images | 19:40 |
| devananda | you could overwhelm th network _or_ the ironic manager IO bus | 19:41 |
| devananda | or both | 19:41 |
| devananda | "you can overload the network by being too scalable" isn't really an argument against doing something scalably :) | 19:41 |
| lifeless | righ, but if ironic is driving, ironic has a very simple knob to control it | 19:41 |
| devananda | ironic would still be driving the deploy ramdisk | 19:41 |
| lifeless | actually, its a key factor in defining scalable | 19:41 |
| devananda | yes. but not against doing it | 19:41 |
| lifeless | uhm | 19:42 |
| devananda | each manager will be tracking how many deploys are in progresss / in what state | 19:42 |
| devananda | whether locally or via ramdisk | 19:42 |
| lifeless | let me rephrase my prior comment: doing things with more concurrency than service points is *not* doing it scalably. | 19:42 |
| devananda | i dont understand this: "if ironic is driving". why would ironic _not_ be driving the deploy ramdisk? | 19:42 |
| lifeless | scalable!= infinite parallel. | 19:42 |
| lifeless | scalable == responsive API + low average and 95% time-to-complete, as requests per [interval] goes up | 19:43 |
| lifeless | devananda: at the ironic no agent on the ramdisk; the ramdisk polls | 19:44 |
| lifeless | at the moment, ironic has no way to directly drive the agent on the ramdisk; the ramdisk polls | 19:45 |
| devananda | ah | 19:45 |
| devananda | so | 19:45 |
| devananda | yes. perhaps that isn't clear in what i've drafted :) | 19:46 |
| devananda | the ramdisk agent needs to be driven by ironic-manager | 19:46 |
| devananda | for many (other) reasons (too) | 19:46 |
| lifeless | From a latency perspective | 19:46 |
| lifeless | I'd like to reduce the number of times the ironic-manager process has to interact with the deploy ramdisk | 19:47 |
| devananda | even so, the manager will know how many deploys are in progress at any time, even if it's not driving an agent directly | 19:47 |
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| lifeless | so, my concerns can be summarised thusly: I'm skeptical of a python API delivering images. | 19:47 |
| lifeless | in the same way I'd be skeptical of a Python API delivering block storage *content* | 19:47 |
| lifeless | [vs arbitrating access to low level implementations] | 19:48 |
| devananda | ack | 19:48 |
| lifeless | I'm worried about the requirements for impersonation | 19:48 |
| lifeless | and I'm worried about the resulting interlocking drive-step-by-step that will hurt latency on each machine if we drive each agent rather than having them be actors | 19:49 |
| lifeless | its not that it's not doable, its that I think the net effect is hard to implement well, and doesn't offer benefits. | 19:49 |
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| devananda | i have that (security) concern today, too. and agree that we need a solution before doing the impersonate-a-glance-client bit | 19:49 |
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| devananda | so it sounds like we have similar concerns. i'm happy to stick this ^ list on the BP as things | 19:50 |
| lifeless | I think a much simpler design is to: | 19:50 |
| devananda | that must be addressed (either before or by it) | 19:50 |
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| lifeless | - stick with what we have until we're ready to do torrents | 19:51 |
| lifeless | - then talk with the glance folk about secured-bittorrent-from-glance | 19:51 |
| lifeless | - and if they want that, implement the bittorrent glue as an adjacent service in glance | 19:52 |
| lifeless | - or if they don't, make it ironic specific | 19:52 |
| lifeless | doing 'glanceclient' in the general sense just seems hard+uninteresting | 19:52 |
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| lifeless | [where failing to do the hard bit well will be bad for performance/security or both] | 19:53 |
| lifeless | I'm not against responsibilities for this living in glance: I'm against using the existing service that solves a different load problem to do it. | 19:53 |
| lifeless | :) | 19:53 |
| lifeless | what-do-you-think-of-that | 19:54 |
| devananda | i like ^. we've talked about it before :) | 19:54 |
| devananda | sounds like the makings for a BP | 19:54 |
| lifeless | I will be happy if we can drop the 'glance client in ramdisk' discussion, in favour of the above | 19:55 |
| devananda | i do not like the current implementation -- using a shell init script + netcat and calling it an "agent" | 19:55 |
| lifeless | devananda: is the iscsi/dd the thing you don't like, or the lack of testable/extensible code in the ramdisk ? | 19:55 |
| lifeless | devananda: because, if it's the latter, I fully support making that better. | 19:56 |
| devananda | both. much more the second | 19:56 |
| devananda | i think we will want iscsi/dd functionality for some cases | 19:56 |
| devananda | even far down the road | 19:56 |
| devananda | so i dont want to completely abandon that | 19:56 |
| lifeless | the iscsi/dd thing are pretty much ideal until we step up to a torrent-like-thing | 19:56 |
| lifeless | IMNSHO | 19:56 |
| devananda | and i dont want python-glanceclient in the ramdisk, but something-that-pulls-from-glance | 19:56 |
| lifeless | robust standards, with auth and good performance | 19:56 |
| devananda | i'm happy to clarify the wording around not-python-client | 19:57 |
| devananda | but i also see an intermediate step | 19:57 |
| lifeless | so, I feel like we reached consensus, and then stepped away. | 19:57 |
| devananda | yea | 19:57 |
| devananda | slightly away, not much | 19:57 |
| lifeless | *why* do you want something-that-pulls-from-glance? Thats what I've been arguing *against* | 19:57 |
| devananda | between current no secure key exchange, terrible "agent", iscs/dd | 19:58 |
| devananda | and eventual secure exchange, smart agent, bittorrent | 19:58 |
| devananda | i think there's room for a middle step | 19:58 |
| devananda | :) | 19:58 |
| lifeless | cautious-ack | 19:58 |
| lifeless | I don't see why using glance's existing server-to-server/server-to-developer functionality makes any sense though | 19:59 |
| devananda | hm. you may have some insight there that i lack, then | 19:59 |
| lifeless | fixing the agent to be testable, event driven, more robust - great. | 19:59 |
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| lifeless | fixing the security aspects - great. | 19:59 |
| lifeless | messing with the most efficient way to send block data around on the network - WTF. | 20:00 |
| devananda | heh | 20:00 |
| devananda | i'll update teh BP | 20:00 |
| devananda | to clarify the parts we agree on, and add notes/whiteboard about the parts we almost agree on | 20:01 |
| devananda | anyhow, out of time for today | 20:01 |
| lifeless | cool | 20:01 |
| devananda | thanks all! | 20:01 |
| devananda | #endmeeting | 20:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meetings" | 20:01 | |
| lifeless | indeed, it's #tripleo time | 20:01 |
| openstack | Meeting ended Mon May 27 20:01:33 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 20:01 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/ironic/2013/ironic.2013-05-27-19.03.html | 20:01 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/ironic/2013/ironic.2013-05-27-19.03.txt | 20:01 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/ironic/2013/ironic.2013-05-27-19.03.log.html | 20:01 |
| lifeless | #startmeeting tripleo | 20:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Mon May 27 20:01:52 2013 UTC. The chair is lifeless. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 20:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 20:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: tripleo)" | 20:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'tripleo' | 20:01 |
| lifeless | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/TripleO | 20:02 |
| lifeless | #topic bugs | 20:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "bugs (Meeting topic: tripleo)" | 20:02 | |
| lifeless | #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/tripleo/ | 20:02 |
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| vbannai | Hi | 20:04 |
| lifeless | hi | 20:04 |
| lifeless | so - we have 9 criticals | 20:04 |
| lifeless | because, we found out how broken things were :) | 20:04 |
| lifeless | we need some volunteers to step up and hack | 20:05 |
| lifeless | devananda: are we getting you good enough info with the bm specific bugs ? | 20:06 |
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| devananda | lifeless: largely, yes. | 20:06 |
| * devananda looks for al ink | 20:06 | |
| devananda | #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/nova/+bug/1184445 | 20:07 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1184445 in tripleo "deploy / delete fragility" [High,Triaged] | 20:07 |
| devananda | i posted a cmment there with several possibly-related-but-vague bugs | 20:07 |
| devananda | other than those, i think everything's been pretty clear | 20:07 |
| lifeless | cool | 20:08 |
| *** seanrob has quit IRC | 20:08 | |
| lifeless | the main themes I see are: | 20:08 |
| lifeless | - broken trunks in other projects | 20:08 |
| lifeless | - too much boot-stack-undercloud hardcoding in our elements (which we knew about) | 20:09 |
| lifeless | - baremetal fragility | 20:09 |
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| lifeless | anything else to say on bugs? Anyone volunteering? | 20:10 |
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| lifeless | guess not :P | 20:12 |
| devananda | nothing more here. I fix 'em when I can :) | 20:12 |
| lifeless | ok grizzly test rack POC status | 20:12 |
| lifeless | we have a rack, with 21 compute nodes deployed via heat + nova bm | 20:13 |
| lifeless | we've had to hand tune the control plane | 20:13 |
| lifeless | and manually setup quantum | 20:13 |
| lifeless | bugs filed on every manual step. | 20:13 |
| lifeless | the 21 compute nodes though were fully automatic | 20:13 |
| lifeless | once we got all the bugs hammered out | 20:13 |
| lifeless | everyone say \\\o//// | 20:14 |
| dkehn | lifeless, \\\o//// | 20:14 |
| lifeless | we've found mores issues in heat - in particular the hostname issue | 20:14 |
| GheRivero | o/ | 20:14 |
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| lifeless | diskimage-builder needed a couple of tiny tweaks | 20:14 |
| dkehn | lifeless, as far as volunteering https://bugs.launchpad.net/tripleo/+bug/1174149, can we talk later about it | 20:15 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1174149 in tripleo "VLANs for bare metal require manual configuration" [High,Triaged] | 20:15 |
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| lifeless | dkehn: yes, absolutely. | 20:15 |
| dkehn | lifeless, I'm assuming this will be in the quantum area? | 20:15 |
| dkehn | lifeless, once I get situated in Europe will ping for more info | 20:16 |
| lifeless | yes | 20:17 |
| lifeless | there's another quantum bug upcoming too | 20:17 |
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| dkehn | there's always another bug in quantum | 20:18 |
| lifeless | ok | 20:18 |
| lifeless | #topic Grizzly POC | 20:18 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Grizzly POC (Meeting topic: tripleo)" | 20:18 | |
| lifeless | see above | 20:18 |
| lifeless | #topic open discussion | 20:19 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: tripleo)" | 20:19 | |
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| * lifeless opens it to the floor | 20:19 | |
| dkehn | BTM they want to disscuss another approach for the extra_dhcp_opts using the quantum meta server, or something will get more info in the next meeting | 20:19 |
| dkehn | which could spell more delays | 20:19 |
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| devananda | dkehn: any more info on that besides garyk's one comment on the review? | 20:21 |
| dkehn | thats it | 20:21 |
| dkehn | jsut concerned that these have a way of boiling over a bit | 20:21 |
| devananda | aye | 20:21 |
| devananda | i'll stick around for the quantum meeting and say some things | 20:21 |
| dkehn | my position will be to got with what we have then deal with other needs as they arrive | 20:22 |
| devananda | "lets make this more general" is sometimes the right thing, but not always | 20:22 |
| dkehn | cool | 20:22 |
| lifeless | yeah | 20:22 |
| lifeless | this is already super general. | 20:22 |
| lifeless | arbitrary options. | 20:22 |
| dkehn | I think its the right thing, but would like to get this moved on | 20:22 |
| lifeless | oh god please yes. | 20:22 |
| dkehn | no kidding | 20:22 |
| lifeless | whats the review url for it ? | 20:22 |
| devananda | "This could be useful for all" (quote from his comment) | 20:22 |
| devananda | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/30441/ | 20:22 |
| dkehn | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/30447/ | 20:23 |
| devananda | erm | 20:23 |
| dkehn | worng | 20:23 |
| devananda | it's 30441 | 20:23 |
| dkehn | devananda, right https://review.openstack.org/#/c/30441/ | 20:23 |
| dkehn | me wrong | 20:23 |
| dkehn | the 30447 is the client | 20:23 |
| dkehn | python-quantumclient | 20:23 |
| dkehn | sorry | 20:24 |
| devananda | i dont see dhcpopts on the agenda? | 20:25 |
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| dkehn | for quantum meeting | 20:25 |
| dkehn | ? | 20:25 |
| devananda | right | 20:25 |
| dkehn | probably not, so two approachs, be quiet it goes away, bring it up and god save us | 20:26 |
| devananda | um, it's not going away. this needs to get resolved, so i'm going to bring it up, i guess | 20:26 |
| dkehn | I'm wondering if gary will bring it up | 20:26 |
| devananda | lifeless: unless you want to? | 20:26 |
| dkehn | I can bring it up, during the open discussion I guess | 20:27 |
| dkehn | my thingy | 20:27 |
| lifeless | devananda: you already have the discussion open with him | 20:27 |
| lifeless | devananda: I would say 'dhcp options are generic but specific; hiding them in a metadata thing adds no value | 20:28 |
| lifeless | devananda: which I think is roughly what you already said | 20:28 |
| devananda | ack | 20:28 |
| lifeless | back in a sec | 20:28 |
| dkehn | In addition, if they get more completicated, whcih they are not now, they won't get used | 20:28 |
| lifeless | right | 20:33 |
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| lifeless | so key points: DHCP options are highly relevant to ports; no reason to hide it away. Doesn't stop a generic 'metadata' thing later, if that is considered a good idea. | 20:33 |
| dkehn | that how I see it | 20:34 |
| dkehn | moving forward does preclude the metadata thing | 20:34 |
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| lifeless | dkehn: does? or does not? | 20:35 |
| dkehn | doesn't sorry | 20:35 |
| dkehn | does not | 20:35 |
| dkehn | once this portion complete, we can move on the metadata, which will require some understanding | 20:36 |
| lifeless | yeah; personally I'm skeptical of generic things | 20:36 |
| lifeless | because you still need reliability and predictable locations - a well known path - for clients to be written | 20:37 |
| lifeless | overly generic is death to APIs | 20:37 |
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| lifeless | ok | 20:40 |
| lifeless | it seems like we're done. | 20:40 |
| lifeless | Last call for topics | 20:40 |
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| lifeless | #endmeeting | 20:41 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meetings" | 20:41 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Mon May 27 20:41:16 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 20:41 |
| lifeless | thanks for playing | 20:41 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tripleo/2013/tripleo.2013-05-27-20.01.html | 20:41 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tripleo/2013/tripleo.2013-05-27-20.01.txt | 20:41 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tripleo/2013/tripleo.2013-05-27-20.01.log.html | 20:41 |
| devananda | o/ | 20:41 |
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| markmcclain | o/ | 20:59 |
| arosen | hiya | 20:59 |
| dkehn | hi | 20:59 |
| zyluo_ | hi | 20:59 |
| rkukura | hi | 20:59 |
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| yamahata_ | hi | 20:59 |
| enikanorov | hi | 20:59 |
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| devananda | \o | 21:00 |
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| garyk | hi | 21:01 |
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| markmcclain | ok… I think it's going to be a light turnout today with the holiday in US | 21:01 |
| markmcclain | #startmeeting Networking | 21:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Mon May 27 21:01:51 2013 UTC. The chair is markmcclain. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 21:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 21:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: Networking)" | 21:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'networking' | 21:01 |
| markmcclain | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Network/Meetings | 21:02 |
| markmcclain | #topic Announcments | 21:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Announcments (Meeting topic: Networking)" | 21:02 | |
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| markmcclain | H1 will be cut this week | 21:03 |
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| markmcclain | I've started moving a few blueprints that are not complete or in review to H2 | 21:04 |
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| markmcclain | Before we run through the reports, I wanted to says thanks to OpenStack Israel organizing committee for putting together and hosting a great conference here and to garyk and sbercovici for being excellent hosts for me | 21:07 |
| garyk | markmcclain: it has been great having you over in our part of the world | 21:08 |
| markmcclain | it's exciting the exciting things happening in the OpenStack community up close | 21:08 |
| markmcclain | *to see | 21:08 |
| markmcclain | garyk: I definitely have a new appreciation for the midnight meetings :) | 21:09 |
| garyk | :) | 21:09 |
| markmcclain | Let's run through the reports | 21:09 |
| markmcclain | #topic API | 21:09 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "API (Meeting topic: Networking)" | 21:09 | |
| markmcclain | Salvatore if off today, but has updated his section of the agenda | 21:09 |
| markmcclain | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Network/Meetings#API_.28salv-orlando.29 | 21:10 |
| markmcclain | the one item of note is modular L3 has been moved back to H2 | 21:10 |
| markmcclain | the code is in review, but changeset is large because of the amount of code that has been moved | 21:11 |
| markmcclain | Salvatore and I will work through reviewing the patch | 21:11 |
| markmcclain | any questions on API? | 21:12 |
| markmcclain | #topic VPNaaS | 21:12 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "VPNaaS (Meeting topic: Networking)" | 21:12 | |
| markmcclain | nachi is off today as well, but has updated the agenda | 21:13 |
| markmcclain | there is a work in progress version of the VPN API code available | 21:13 |
| markmcclain | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/29812/ | 21:14 |
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| markmcclain | take a look and any feedback you have to help out | 21:14 |
| markmcclain | #topic Nova Integration | 21:14 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Nova Integration (Meeting topic: Networking)" | 21:14 | |
| markmcclain | garyk: hi | 21:15 |
| salv-orlando | aloha | 21:15 |
| garyk | markmcclain: sadly there has not been much progress made with the migrations path | 21:15 |
| markmcclain | salv-orlando: hi | 21:15 |
| markmcclain | garyk: that's fine | 21:15 |
| garyk | markmcclain: nachi has made a patch for the driver which is still in review | 21:16 |
| rkukura | is this the host_id patch? | 21:16 |
| garyk | markmcclain: rkukura https://review.openstack.org/#/c/21946/ | 21:16 |
| rkukura | nevermind, that's gongysh's | 21:16 |
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| garyk | rkukura: yes, that is yongs patch. | 21:16 |
| garyk | markmcclain: other than that nothing else toupdate on the nova front (sorry) | 21:17 |
| rkukura | both effect port binding, which ml2 needs, and are still in review | 21:17 |
| salv-orlando | rkukura: are they pre-reqs? | 21:17 |
| markmcclain | rkukura: do you have a link? | 21:17 |
| rkukura | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/29767/ | 21:18 |
| garyk | markmcclain: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/29767/ | 21:18 |
| markmcclain | thanks | 21:18 |
| rkukura | not a prereq for 1st merge, but for H-2 work | 21:18 |
| salv-orlando | ah that's the nova side. | 21:18 |
| markmcclain | ok | 21:19 |
| markmcclain | I've made notes that those are needed for ML2 | 21:20 |
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| markmcclain | salv-orlando: I just pasted your link to the agenda | 21:20 |
| markmcclain | do you have anything you want add since you were not online for the API section? | 21:21 |
| markmcclain | #topics Security Groups | 21:21 |
| salv-orlando | not really. I just wish to have you guys | 21:22 |
| salv-orlando | for another review cycle on the only blueprint we're targeting now. | 21:22 |
| salv-orlando | Otherwise I will untarget that as well. | 21:22 |
| arosen | hi | 21:22 |
| arosen | Nothing new to report on the security profile sections. I brought up moving the port creation from nova-compute to nova-api in order to allow quantum to decide if a port should be part of a default security group or not since nova is automatically putting everything in a default group right now. | 21:22 |
| markmcclain | salv-orlando: GW modes? | 21:23 |
| salv-orlando | yup | 21:23 |
| arosen | Sumit is out but he has a review up for the inital fwaas framework here: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/29004/ | 21:23 |
| markmcclain | arosen: cool | 21:23 |
| arosen | He said that Ragjesh is making progress with the iptables driver and they should shortly have that part up for review too. | 21:23 |
| arosen | that's it. | 21:23 |
| markmcclain | arosen: thanks for the update | 21:23 |
| markmcclain | salv-orlando: looks like we have several cores on that review | 21:24 |
| markmcclain | I'll take a another look too | 21:24 |
| markmcclain | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/25525/ | 21:24 |
| salv-orlando | it's you and amotoku | 21:24 |
| salv-orlando | amotoki, sorry | 21:25 |
| salv-orlando | If you're still in Europe tomorrow we can sort that out in the morning | 21:25 |
| markmcclain | ah no worries… it's important that the h1 items get review attention | 21:25 |
| markmcclain | yeah.. we can chat a bit in the morning when we're awake | 21:25 |
| salv-orlando | unless you're planning on a beach trip :) | 21:25 |
| markmcclain | I've got 3g :) | 21:25 |
| markmcclain | #topic ML2 | 21:26 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "ML2 (Meeting topic: Networking)" | 21:26 | |
| markmcclain | rkukura: hi | 21:26 |
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| rkukura | just posted non-WIP patch: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/20105/ | 21:26 |
| rkukura | devstack patch: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/27576/ | 21:27 |
| markmcclain | cool | 21:27 |
| rkukura | There is plenty more work to do, but I think what's there is enough for initial merge | 21:27 |
| rkukura | main missing feature is GRE support, including tunnel endpoint RPCs | 21:27 |
| markmcclain | GRE seems like something we can add in a follow up patch | 21:28 |
| markmcclain | it's just a new driver right? | 21:28 |
| rkukura | Also, not yet returning a useful binding:vif_type, which needs nova to set binding:host_id, so GenericVIFDriver cannot currently be used | 21:28 |
| rkukura | GRE needs the GreTypeDriver which is very straightforward | 21:29 |
| rkukura | And also the RPC methods for tunnel endpoint management | 21:29 |
| markmcclain | ok.. that seems a nice standalone approach so that we can get ML2 | 21:29 |
| markmcclain | and others who want to start writing drivers will have something develop against | 21:29 |
| rkukura | That's the idea | 21:30 |
| markmcclain | great | 21:30 |
| rkukura | So review comments on WIP patch sets have all been addressed | 21:30 |
| rkukura | If we get reviews, it could make H-1 | 21:31 |
| markmcclain | thanks keeping the review up to daye | 21:31 |
| markmcclain | *date | 21:31 |
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| markmcclain | yeah.. we'll have some time on Tuesday to review | 21:31 |
| markmcclain | anything else besides the related vif_type review you need to bring up? | 21:32 |
| rkukura | not right now | 21:32 |
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| markmcclain | do we have any cores that want to help review? | 21:35 |
| salv-orlando | I think ML2 is going to be a long stream of patches across H-2 and H-3. So if this one is self contained, and does not break anything else, it might make sense to merge it | 21:36 |
| salv-orlando | even if there are still several missing bits, which is more than understandable | 21:36 |
| markmcclain | salv-orlando: yeah.. that's my feeling too | 21:36 |
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| garyk | i can take a look. | 21:36 |
| markmcclain | garyk: thanks | 21:37 |
| markmcclain | salv-orlando: would you mind being the other core? | 21:37 |
| salv-orlando | I don't mind | 21:37 |
| markmcclain | salv-orlando: thanks | 21:37 |
| rkukura | appreciated - also, gongysh, nachi, and arosen have looked at WIP versions | 21:38 |
| markmcclain | good stuff | 21:38 |
| markmcclain | Look Akihiro is offline, so we'll skip Horizon this week | 21:38 |
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| markmcclain | #topics Other team reports | 21:39 |
| enikanorov | lbaas? | 21:39 |
| markmcclain | enikanorov: sorry | 21:39 |
| dkehn | extra_dhcp_opts? | 21:39 |
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| markmcclain | the LBaaS reviews haven't moved much this week | 21:40 |
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| markmcclain | I sat down with Sam and Alex today | 21:40 |
| markmcclain | I'll fill you in offline | 21:40 |
| enikanorov | good, thanks. | 21:40 |
| markmcclain | dkehn: yes.. let's talke extra_dhcp_opts | 21:40 |
| * lifeless eyeballs the channel :) | 21:41 | |
| devananda | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/30441/1/quantum/db/extradhcpopt_db.py | 21:41 |
| dkehn | so during the review garyK brought the issue of a more genric approach | 21:41 |
| devananda | garyk posted a question there, to which I responded | 21:41 |
| dkehn | metadata server? | 21:41 |
| * devananda let's dkehn talk :) | 21:41 | |
| dkehn | soory | 21:41 |
| markmcclain | just bring everyone up to speed.. the review implements | 21:41 |
| markmcclain | https://blueprints.launchpad.net/quantum/+spec/pxeboot-ports | 21:41 |
| dkehn | go devananda , since its you response | 21:42 |
| devananda | k | 21:42 |
| devananda | so, baremetal (and ironic) both want to be able to have openstack networking | 21:42 |
| devananda | respond to dhcp boot requests | 21:42 |
| garyk | devananda: i have yet to go over the comments - i'll do so tomorrow. i do not think that is a blocking issue but may be worth discussing here | 21:43 |
| devananda | so we dont need to run a separate dhsmasq process | 21:43 |
| devananda | garyk: great! happy to hear it | 21:43 |
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| devananda | our concern was that it seemed like you wanted a generic implementation in lieu of the existing one | 21:43 |
| garyk | the idea was to have matadata for each primitive. would be intersting to know what markmcclain and salv-orlando think about having the db modeil have metadat | 21:43 |
| garyk | it may make things more flexible moving forwards. | 21:44 |
| dkehn | garyk, can you explain the flexibility? | 21:44 |
| garyk | dkehn: in order to implement the extra parameters you needed to change the datamodel for the db (migration etc.) | 21:45 |
| devananda | afaict from the review, it's already pretty generic. it looks like one could set arbitrary dhcp options (not just the boot options) | 21:45 |
| lifeless | garyk: FWIW I'd be wary of reimplementing SQL DDL a layer up; it tends to perform very poorly :). [generic metadata vs structured data]. | 21:46 |
| devananda | so i'm not sure what you're suggesting to change | 21:46 |
| garyk | dkehn: if the quantum database had metadat support, then then we would not have had to do the update and one could have added values as a key:value pair. | 21:46 |
| salv-orlando | garyk: you can start an offline discussion on metadata, I'd be happy to participsate | 21:46 |
| salv-orlando | I tend to agree with lifeless. Tried that in the past. Very happy until it hit production scale. Very sad after that. | 21:47 |
| dkehn | garyk, at preset more option in the db would just mean more extradhcpopts records, associated to a port | 21:47 |
| garyk | lifeless: understood. | 21:47 |
| lifeless | scaling for this - for ironic we'll be setting 3 options per node | 21:48 |
| markmcclain | yeah.. this is first that I'd considered that for multiple objects.. my immediate concern is metadata tends to be a bucket where folks dump items that should be attributes to avoid changing database schema | 21:48 |
| lifeless | a future backend-optimisation can coalesce identical options inside the dnsmaq options file | 21:48 |
| lifeless | we want to scale this well past 100K physical nodes. | 21:48 |
| markmcclain | metadata fields aren't very different from json blobs | 21:49 |
| devananda | for what its worth, not having this is blocking some work in nova | 21:50 |
| lifeless | true; but in this case the coalescing I refer to can avoid bringing back 300K rows from the DB - we might bring back 500 or so, depending on the # of ironic servers. | 21:50 |
| garyk | lifeless: the proposed db change has one option and one value. what are the 3 options? | 21:50 |
| lifeless | thats much harder to do when the data is buried in a string | 21:50 |
| lifeless | garyk: each option;value pair is one dhcp option. | 21:50 |
| lifeless | garyk: the three options are the tftp filename, server name, server ip: three rows per port that is being PXE booted. | 21:51 |
| lifeless | garyk: the future optimisation I'm referring to is a SELECT DISTINCT approach across that. | 21:51 |
| dkehn | Its a none-> many | 21:51 |
| devananda | garyk: afaict the current patch is proposing 0:N opts, not 1, per port. | 21:52 |
| devananda | so it is extensible beyond just the 3 we currently need | 21:52 |
| devananda | dkehn: am i right ^ ? | 21:52 |
| lifeless | poor garyk, three people answering every utterance :) | 21:52 |
| devananda | heh | 21:52 |
| dkehn | it is | 21:52 |
| garyk | devananda: dkehn lifeless - i need to look at the patch in more detail | 21:52 |
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| devananda | garyk: thanks, much appreciated | 21:53 |
| lifeless | garyk: this is the single biggest operational headache for folk doing nova baremetal; *anything* we can do to get it landed, we're up for. | 21:53 |
| lifeless | garyk: commensurate with it being a good idea, of course. | 21:53 |
| markmcclain | let's take a look and then we can discuss offline tomorrow | 21:53 |
| garyk | lifeless: i understand the urgency. | 21:54 |
| markmcclain | via review comments if there are any questions | 21:54 |
| lifeless | thanks | 21:54 |
| markmcclain | #topic Open Discussion | 21:54 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: Networking)" | 21:54 | |
| markmcclain | Actually one other item I forgot to point out | 21:55 |
| markmcclain | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/27265/ | 21:55 |
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| markmcclain | this review sync up the Quantum db code with Oslo which should bring improvements | 21:55 |
| markmcclain | those that have been running into evenlet and transaction oddities please take a look at this patch | 21:56 |
| markmcclain | Any other items for Open Discussion? | 21:56 |
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| salv-orlando | yes, a quantum bug day? | 21:57 |
| garyk | salv-orlando: +1 | 21:57 |
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| markmcclain | yeah.. I think that is a good idea | 21:58 |
| markmcclain | Try for one next week so that we can alert folks? | 21:58 |
| markmcclain | June 7th possibly? | 21:58 |
| salv-orlando | what about Tuesday June 4th? | 21:59 |
| salv-orlando | 7th is good as well | 21:59 |
| garyk | salv-orlando: markmcclain tuesday is good | 21:59 |
| markmcclain | I've got meetings the 4th, but it is not necessary for me to be around if most folks are available Tuesday | 22:00 |
| salv-orlando | I am fine with any day next week actually, excluding monday when I have other commitments | 22:00 |
| markmcclain | I'll send an email out and conduct a straw poll of the reviewes | 22:01 |
| salv-orlando | k thanks | 22:02 |
| markmcclain | *reviewers and we'll a day when most of us can be around | 22:02 |
| markmcclain | any other item before we wrap up? | 22:02 |
| garyk | it has been a long day. i am going to crash. havea good one | 22:02 |
| markmcclain | #endmeeting | 22:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meetings" | 22:02 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Mon May 27 22:02:47 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 22:02 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/networking/2013/networking.2013-05-27-21.01.html | 22:02 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/networking/2013/networking.2013-05-27-21.01.txt | 22:02 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/networking/2013/networking.2013-05-27-21.01.log.html | 22:02 |
| markmcclain | garyk: have a good night | 22:02 |
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| markmcclain | have a good evening/morning.. I'll talk to everyone on the ML or IRC | 22:04 |
| salv-orlando | adie | 22:04 |
| salv-orlando | adieu | 22:04 |
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