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| jgriffith | thingee: jdurgin1 winstond DuncanT around? | 16:02 |
|---|---|---|
| thingee | o/ | 16:02 |
| jgriffith | bswartz: ? | 16:02 |
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| bswartz | hi | 16:02 |
| jgriffith | Ok... looks like we have a few people, perhaps some stagglers will follow | 16:03 |
| jgriffith | #startmeeting cinder | 16:03 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Nov 14 16:03:05 2012 UTC. The chair is jgriffith. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 16:03 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 16:03 |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'cinder' | 16:03 |
| thingee | oh I didn't comprehend your message correctly. It appears durgin just signed on at 7:56 | 16:03 |
| jdurgin1 | hello | 16:03 |
| thingee | there! | 16:03 |
| jgriffith | thingee: Morning! :) | 16:03 |
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| jgriffith | thingee: after your all nighter you don't stand a chance at comprehending me :) | 16:03 |
| jgriffith | thingee: I'm confusing enough on a good day | 16:04 |
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| jgriffith | alright, I want to start with G1 status updates | 16:04 |
| jgriffith | #topic G1 status | 16:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "G1 status" | 16:04 | |
| jgriffith | #link https://launchpad.net/cinder/+milestone/grizzly-1 | 16:04 |
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| jgriffith | This is what we have slated and remember G1 is next week | 16:05 |
| winston-d | :) | 16:06 |
| jgriffith | Anybyody have any concerns for what they're signed up for thati should know about? | 16:06 |
| bswartz | I see one of the blueprints mentions splitting the drivers into 1 per file | 16:06 |
| jgriffith | Need help, blockers, etc? | 16:06 |
| bswartz | I would prefer keeping the netapp drivers together | 16:07 |
| winston-d | jgriffith, mines are on track. | 16:07 |
| jgriffith | winston-d: excellent | 16:07 |
| jgriffith | bswartz: the first phases of that change have already landed | 16:08 |
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| jgriffith | bswartz: over a week ago | 16:08 |
| thingee | jgriffith: looking pretty good on apiv2. clearer-error-messages is going to be pretty easy too | 16:08 |
| jgriffith | thingee: awesome, so the power of positive thinking worked :) | 16:09 |
| jgriffith | thingee: That and no sleep for a night! | 16:09 |
| bswartz | jgriffith: I think the change in general is a good idea, but I'm just suggesting that the NetApp drivers are exempted | 16:09 |
| jgriffith | bswartz: I'm just pointing out that the change already merged | 16:09 |
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| bswartz | oh wait, I'm looking at the wrong tree | 16:10 |
| jgriffith | bswartz: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/15000/ | 16:10 |
| bswartz | okay it looks like netapp wasn't affected by that change | 16:10 |
| thingee | jgriffith: I thought apiv2 was targetted for g1? | 16:11 |
| bswartz | I will keep an eye out for the next phase of the change | 16:11 |
| jgriffith | bswartz: ok, we still need to figure out if there needs to be a next phase I suppose but anyway | 16:11 |
| jgriffith | thingee: hmmm.... it was but it was moved last week when we got Chucks version | 16:12 |
| jgriffith | thingee: My plan/idea was to get the structure for G1 | 16:12 |
| thingee | ah right | 16:12 |
| jgriffith | thingee: All the other additions/enhancements will come in G2 | 16:12 |
| jgriffith | thingee: So it's critical that we have everything in place to do that at G1 | 16:12 |
| thingee | yeah. I'll let you know once I move the other stuff into separate bps and then retarget? | 16:12 |
| DuncanT | Sorry, didn't see the time | 16:13 |
| jgriffith | perfect | 16:13 |
| jgriffith | DuncanT: NP | 16:13 |
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| jgriffith | So if there are no big concerns about getting these in.... | 16:13 |
| jgriffith | Are there any big concerns about something that should be there that's not? | 16:13 |
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| jgriffith | Yay! I'll take silence as a good thing ;) | 16:14 |
| jgriffith | #topic service and host info | 16:15 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "service and host info" | 16:15 | |
| jgriffith | So something else that came up this week was cinder-manage service list :) | 16:15 |
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| jgriffith | Turns out I was in the process of implementing that functionality in the cinderclient | 16:15 |
| jgriffith | There may be some concern around doing this and I wanted to get feed-back from all of you | 16:16 |
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| winston-d | i see you are working on a host extension? | 16:16 |
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| jgriffith | winston-d: Yes, but I am planning to change that around a bit | 16:16 |
| jgriffith | It should fit more with what nova does I think | 16:16 |
| jgriffith | and then add a seperate service extensionn for the "other stuff" | 16:17 |
| winston-d | jgriffith, ok. i'm fine with that. | 16:17 |
| jgriffith | TBH I'm not sure of the value in the host extension any longer | 16:17 |
| winston-d | hmm | 16:17 |
| jgriffith | 90% of it just raises notimplemented | 16:17 |
| jgriffith | winston-d: I'd like to implement the extension and then we can fill in the underlying stuff later | 16:18 |
| jgriffith | but I want to make sure it's not something that nobody will ever use :) | 16:18 |
| creiht | what was the host extension? | 16:18 |
| jgriffith | ie host power-actions (reboot a cinder noode) set maintenance-window etc | 16:19 |
| creiht | oh | 16:19 |
| creiht | interesting | 16:19 |
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| jgriffith | creiht: yeah, I started with just a place to put things like "show me all the cinder services, their status and where they're running" | 16:19 |
| DuncanT | Is there a detailed blueprint for it? I'm only familiar with a very small subset of it | 16:19 |
| jgriffith | Then I noticed nova had this hosts extension but it's a bit different | 16:19 |
| DuncanT | The services/nodes/statuses stuff is definitely useful | 16:20 |
| jgriffith | DuncanT: Nope, I didn't go into detail with the BP because it existed in Nova | 16:20 |
| jgriffith | DuncanT: Yeah, but I'm thinking that should be seperate form the hosts extension | 16:20 |
| winston-d | DuncanT, agree. service/node/status are useful. | 16:20 |
| jgriffith | Leave the hosts extension in line with what it does in Nova, and add services specifically for checking status, enable/disable etc | 16:20 |
| winston-d | i usually treat that as how scheduler sees the cluster. | 16:21 |
| DuncanT | I need to go look at the nova version before I can comment, I guess... | 16:21 |
| jgriffith | winston-d: explain? | 16:21 |
| jgriffith | DuncanT: It's sorta funky IMO, mostly because a good portion of it is not implemented | 16:21 |
| jgriffith | DuncanT: But the idea is that you perform actions on your compute nodes | 16:22 |
| winston-d | jgriffith, well, what services are up/down, etc. basically i'd check nova-manage service info when i see something wrong with instances scheduling. | 16:22 |
| winston-d | this was missing part in cinder. | 16:22 |
| jgriffith | winston-d: ahh... yes, ok | 16:22 |
| jgriffith | winston-d: So that is what I set out to address with this | 16:23 |
| jgriffith | winston-d: But I'm thinking now that it might be usefull if this had it's own extensions (service) | 16:23 |
| DuncanT | I don't think the cinder API is the right place to be rebooting nodes... (nore the nova API for that matter) | 16:23 |
| jgriffith | winston-d: There are a number of things that I think could be added into that in the future | 16:23 |
| jgriffith | DuncanT: yeah, that's something I thought would come up :) | 16:24 |
| DuncanT | Service info as its own extension sounds like the way to go then... | 16:24 |
| winston-d | i agree with DuncanT. | 16:24 |
| jgriffith | #action jgriffith dump hosts extension for now and implement services ext | 16:24 |
| jgriffith | Everybody ok with that? | 16:24 |
| DuncanT | Yup | 16:24 |
| winston-d | i'm good. | 16:24 |
| jdurgin1 | sounds good | 16:25 |
| jgriffith | Just for background... there's a push to get things out of the *-manage utilities and into the clients | 16:25 |
| jgriffith | that's why I didn't just pick up that patch and be done last week :) | 16:25 |
| winston-d | jgriffith, that's related to admin API stuff? | 16:26 |
| jgriffith | ok... any questions/suggestions on this topic? | 16:26 |
| DuncanT | I'd ideally like to keep "cinder-manage service list" working direct from the database too, but I won't cry if it disappears (I'll just carry my own version... I only want it for dev systems) | 16:26 |
| jgriffith | winston-d: yes, they would be admin only extensions | 16:26 |
| jgriffith | DuncanT: Well, we can put it in as well.... but it DNE today :) | 16:26 |
| DuncanT | I'll send a patch to put it in :-) | 16:27 |
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| jgriffith | DuncanT: We can just reactivate the one I rejected this week :) | 16:27 |
| jgriffith | I think it was from Avishay, but can't remember | 16:28 |
| kmartin | I'll let hemna know | 16:28 |
| jgriffith | kmartin: Ahhh... thanks!!!! | 16:28 |
| jgriffith | kmartin: Yes, it was hemna! | 16:28 |
| DuncanT | :-) | 16:28 |
| jgriffith | I'm just not sure about the value in having both but whatevs | 16:28 |
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| jgriffith | any other thoughts? | 16:29 |
| kmartin | jgriffith: he should be in the office shortly, he'll lget it done today | 16:29 |
| winston-d | i think nova is trying to avoid direct db access. | 16:29 |
| jgriffith | winston-d: yes, that was my point of rejecting it the first time around | 16:29 |
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| winston-d | have that in cinder-manage, means we are adding direct db access? | 16:29 |
| jgriffith | winston-d: yup | 16:30 |
| DuncanT | I think it is a lordable aim but not needing the endpoint address is handy on dev systems | 16:30 |
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| * jgriffith is hopeful somebody might agree with himm on this | 16:30 | |
| winston-d | last time, when i proposed to add some feature to nova-manage, it was rejected and suggest to do that in novaclient. | 16:30 |
| jgriffith | Ok, I'm reverting back to my original stance on this | 16:31 |
| jgriffith | kmartin: dont' tell hemna to resbumit please :) | 16:31 |
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| kmartin | no problem | 16:31 |
| DuncanT | Fair enough, I'll keep an out-of-tree version for now | 16:32 |
| creiht | lol | 16:32 |
| jgriffith | DuncanT: we can revisit later, but i hate to put something in there just for dev | 16:32 |
| jgriffith | DuncanT: Maybe I can just give you a developers tool that you can use :) | 16:32 |
| creiht | I'm not sure if I am fond of having the manage tools also in the client | 16:32 |
| winston-d | i think rackspace private cloud team has a lot of db access scripts to do management jobs. | 16:32 |
| creiht | but I can understand how it makes certain things easier | 16:32 |
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| winston-d | they even have some project around that. | 16:32 |
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| jgriffith | creiht: Well the idea is they would be ONLY in the client if that helps :) | 16:32 |
| DuncanT | DB access can be really handy when something in the db is stopping your API server from working :-) | 16:33 |
| jgriffith | DuncanT: yeah, in some cases it's the only option :) | 16:33 |
| DuncanT | But those type of tools tend to be very site specific I think | 16:33 |
| jgriffith | DuncanT: I think it's fair that those are handled by the provider IMO | 16:33 |
| DuncanT | As I said, it is a trivial enough thing to maintain out-of-tree for now... might bring it up again in six months | 16:34 |
| winston-d | DuncanT, yeah, i know. the question is if we want more of that goes into cinder. | 16:34 |
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| jgriffith | Ok, I'm going to proceed forward.... people can scream and punch me in the face later if they want :) | 16:34 |
| winston-d | ops people may already have much more powerful db scripts to do auditing/monitoring/reaping jobs. i guess. | 16:34 |
| jgriffith | winston-d: +1 | 16:35 |
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| winston-d | :) | 16:35 |
| jgriffith | #topic gate test failures | 16:35 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "gate test failures" | 16:35 | |
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| DuncanT | I'd like to bring some of that power into the upstream tree to save reinventing the wheel, but I'm happy to accept that cleaning thing up needs to happen first | 16:35 |
| jgriffith | It just occured to me this AM that I haven't been updating people on this whole mess | 16:35 |
| jgriffith | The Ubuntu dd issue... | 16:36 |
| jgriffith | We continue to see intermittent failures in the gate tests due to this | 16:36 |
| jgriffith | the kernel folks working it are making some progress but it's really becoming a thorn in my side | 16:36 |
| jgriffith | Soo..... | 16:37 |
| DuncanT | I tried and failed to reproduce | 16:37 |
| jgriffith | DuncanT: Yeah, that's what sucks about it | 16:37 |
| jgriffith | DuncanT: But if you tear down, rebuild enough times you'll hit it | 16:37 |
| jgriffith | physical or virtual | 16:37 |
| jgriffith | Anyway, I put in a temporary patch: | 16:37 |
| DuncanT | Hmmm, have you got a set of backtraces from when it is happening? | 16:38 |
| winston-d | DuncanT, checkout https://github.com/JCallicoat/pulsar that's *nova swiss army knife*. | 16:38 |
| jgriffith | I added a "secure_delete" flag that is checked on the dd command | 16:38 |
| DuncanT | winston-d: Cheers | 16:39 |
| jgriffith | The default is set to True, but in the gate/tempest jobs we set it to False in the localrc file | 16:39 |
| winston-d | that works? | 16:39 |
| jgriffith | This will hopefully keep everybody from saying "Cinder failed jenkins again" | 16:39 |
| jgriffith | :) | 16:39 |
| winston-d | great | 16:40 |
| jgriffith | I've been trying some other methods of the secure delete but they either have the same problem or other severe perf problems | 16:40 |
| jgriffith | Anyway, I thought I should start keeping everybody up to speed on what's going on witht hat | 16:41 |
| jgriffith | that | 16:41 |
| jgriffith | I'm still hopeful that one morning I'll find the kernel fairy came by while I slept and have this fixed | 16:41 |
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| jgriffith | otherwise during G2 we'll need to focus on a viable alternative | 16:42 |
| jgriffith | Any questions/thoughts on this? | 16:42 |
| creiht | jgriffith: would out of band zeroing make it better? | 16:42 |
| jgriffith | creiht: how do you mean? | 16:42 |
| winston-d | jgriffith, do you have ubuntu bug # on this? | 16:42 |
| jgriffith | winston-d: https://bugs.launchpad.net/cinder/+bug/1023755 | 16:43 |
| DuncanT | There's always the option of breaking the LVM and hand building a couple of linear mappings and writing zeros to them | 16:43 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1023755 in linux "Precise kernel locks up while dd to /dev/mapper files > 1Gb (was: Unable to delete volume)" [Undecided,Confirmed] | 16:43 |
| winston-d | jgriffith, thx | 16:43 |
| DuncanT | Should have way better performance that way too | 16:43 |
| creiht | jgriffith: we zero in an outside job that runs periodically | 16:44 |
| jgriffith | creiht: Ohhh..... got ya | 16:44 |
| jgriffith | creiht: I don't think it would sadly | 16:44 |
| jgriffith | creiht: The dd to the dev/mapper system itself seems to be the issue | 16:45 |
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| jgriffith | I don't thinkk it would matter when that's done, the failures in the tests are MOSTLY because the kernell locks up | 16:45 |
| jgriffith | This would still happen but "other" tests/operations on the system would fail | 16:46 |
| jgriffith | and it would be harder to figure out why.... unless I'm missing something | 16:46 |
| jgriffith | creiht: although... if you guys aren't seeing this issue maybe there's something to that idea | 16:46 |
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| creiht | what version of ubuntu are they seeing it on? | 16:48 |
| jgriffith | 12.04 | 16:48 |
| creiht | yeah it is weird that we haven't seen anything like that | 16:48 |
| jgriffith | creiht: That is odd.... | 16:49 |
| creiht | is it specific to how dd writes, or is it just the squential writes of data? | 16:49 |
| creiht | because I don't think we use dd | 16:49 |
| jgriffith | OH!! | 16:49 |
| jgriffith | Yeah, it definitely seems dd related | 16:49 |
| creiht | we have a python script that zeros | 16:49 |
| creiht | I think | 16:49 |
| creiht | :) | 16:49 |
| jgriffith | But I tried changing it to like "cp /dev/zero /dev/mapper/xxxx" | 16:50 |
| jgriffith | This eventually failed as well | 16:50 |
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| creiht | I'm not somwehere that I can look at the code right now, but I will see if I can dig a little deeper and report back to you | 16:50 |
| jgriffith | creiht: cool | 16:50 |
| eharney | jgriffith: have you tried different dd block sizes? maybe the python script just writes with a different pattern | 16:51 |
| jgriffith | creiht: It may be worth testing as you pointed out just doing direct access writes from python in the delete function as well | 16:51 |
| jgriffith | eharney: Haven't messed with block-sizes too much | 16:52 |
| jgriffith | DuncanT: I'd also like to hear more about your proposal as well | 16:52 |
| bswartz | jgriffith: don't do "cp /dev/zero /dev/mapper/xxxx", do "cat < /dev/zero > /dev/mapper/xxxx" | 16:52 |
| jgriffith | bswartz: ok, I can try it... | 16:53 |
| jgriffith | bswartz: thanks | 16:53 |
| DuncanT | jgriffith: I'm trying to code in now :-) | 16:53 |
| jgriffith | DuncanT: awesome | 16:53 |
| jgriffith | So BTW... anybody interested in this feel free :) I''m open to ideas | 16:53 |
| jgriffith | It's just really tough to repro | 16:54 |
| jgriffith | You almost have to tear down and rebuild each time | 16:54 |
| DuncanT | I can't reproduce, but I don't need to to send you a patch | 16:54 |
| jgriffith | cool | 16:55 |
| jgriffith | alright... we've beat that dead horse enough for today | 16:55 |
| jgriffith | #topic open discussion | 16:55 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open discussion" | 16:55 | |
| jgriffith | Anybody have anythign they want/need to talk about? | 16:55 |
| winston-d | nope | 16:56 |
| DuncanT | https://blueprints.launchpad.net/cinder/+spec/add-expect-deleted-flag-in-volume-db | 16:56 |
| DuncanT | I've a slightly alternative proposal: Set the state to 'deleting' in API | 16:57 |
| DuncanT | Match 'attaching' that we already have | 16:57 |
| zykes- | Oh, cinder meeting ? | 16:57 |
| zykes- | How goes the FC / SAN stuff ? | 16:57 |
| bswartz | I would like to introduce rishuagr | 16:57 |
| winston-d | DuncanT, don't we have that? | 16:57 |
| bswartz | rushiagr* | 16:57 |
| DuncanT | winston-d: I'm not sure if cinder have it, I couldn't see it in the code, but I only spent a few seconds looking. If we have, then I can't see what the blueprint is about? | 16:58 |
| bswartz | Rushi is a member of the NetApp team who is working on cinder full time | 16:58 |
| rushiagr | hi all ! | 16:58 |
| kmartin | zykes-:The FC blueprint is moving through the HP legal system....slowly | 16:59 |
| bswartz | I would like Rushi to be added to the cinder core team soon | 16:59 |
| winston-d | DuncanT, i think that bp is mainly for billing. they don't want slow zeroing to mess-up with billing. | 16:59 |
| DuncanT | winston-d: Surely you stop billing once it is in the 'deleting' state? | 17:00 |
| DuncanT | (we do) | 17:00 |
| jgriffith | DuncanT: I would hope so :) | 17:00 |
| winston-d | DuncanT, oh, i see your point. | 17:00 |
| winston-d | rongze_, ping | 17:00 |
| jgriffith | DuncanT: Otherwise you better give an option to NOT secure delete :) | 17:00 |
| zykes- | kmartin: :/ | 17:00 |
| creiht | that's the other nice thing about out of band delete | 17:00 |
| winston-d | creiht, :) | 17:01 |
| zykes- | billing you mean metering ? | 17:01 |
| creiht | erm out of band zeroing | 17:01 |
| rongze_ | hi | 17:01 |
| eharney | i haven't talked to some of you guys much yet, but Cinder is also becoming my primary focus... so.. hi :) | 17:01 |
| thingee | DuncanT: the api appears to have a delete method for setting the deleting state. | 17:02 |
| winston-d | rongze_, DuncanT was talking about your expected-deleted-flag bp. | 17:02 |
| jgriffith | eharney: welcome... | 17:02 |
| DuncanT | OoB zeroing is a win we've found too, but that is a differnt question to this blueprint I think? | 17:02 |
| thingee | before it calls volume_delete | 17:02 |
| jgriffith | Let's get through DuncanT's topic here... | 17:02 |
| winston-d | thingee, yes, there is. | 17:02 |
| DuncanT | So what is this blueprint proposing? I can't make sense of it | 17:03 |
| winston-d | rongze_, and DuncanT suggest you stop billing when there's 'deleting' state, what do you think? | 17:03 |
| rongze_ | yes | 17:03 |
| rongze_ | I agree DuncanT | 17:03 |
| DuncanT | So what is the blueprint suggesting? | 17:03 |
| jgriffith | rongze_: I thought when we talked about this though the idea was..... | 17:03 |
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| jgriffith | rongze_: We have the ability to know when it's safe to remove a volume even if the delete operation never quite finished or errored out | 17:04 |
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| DuncanT | Isn't that 'still in deleting state'? | 17:05 |
| jgriffith | DuncanT: yes, but it's the "hung in deleting state" thing that could be solved | 17:05 |
| jgriffith | DuncanT: at least that's what I thought we were aiming for | 17:06 |
| jgriffith | DuncanT: as it stands right now you can get that state and you're there forever unless you go in and manipulate the DB by hand | 17:06 |
| DuncanT | I think this is a special case of the problem of needing (none-customer-facing) substates for all sorts of hang/lost message cases... Would it be worth trying to come up with a proposal that covers all of them? | 17:07 |
| jgriffith | DuncanT: Perhaps.... yes | 17:07 |
| jgriffith | rongze_: Is my interpretation accurate, or did I misunderstand you on this? | 17:07 |
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| DuncanT | i.e. have a sub-state field that could go 'delete api request dispatched' -> 'delete started on node XXX' -> 'scrubbing finished' -> 'gone' | 17:08 |
| DuncanT | Same field can be used for create subtasks, snapshot subtasks, backup subtasks etc | 17:08 |
| jgriffith | DuncanT: Yeah, which brings up the new state implementation stuff clayg teased us with :) | 17:08 |
| rongze_ | What is the instance is deleted? | 17:08 |
| jgriffith | rongze_: on delete we don't care... | 17:09 |
| jgriffith | rongze_: we're already detached right? | 17:09 |
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| jgriffith | DuncanT: I think what you're proposing is the way we want to go, and I believe it's the sort of thing clayg had in mind | 17:09 |
| rongze_ | I think we can reference instance delete operation | 17:10 |
| jgriffith | rongze_: Oh, I see what you mean.. sorry | 17:10 |
| jgriffith | Ok... | 17:10 |
| jgriffith | #action discuss/clarify blueprint add-expect-deleted-flag-in-volume-db | 17:11 |
| jgriffith | We'll pick this up at the top of G2 | 17:11 |
| jgriffith | Meanwhile... | 17:11 |
| jgriffith | rushiagr: welcome | 17:11 |
| jgriffith | eharney: welcome to you as well | 17:11 |
| jgriffith | rushiagr: eharney Hang out on IRC in #openstack-cinder | 17:12 |
| eharney | will do | 17:12 |
| jgriffith | Or PM me and we can sync up later | 17:12 |
| jgriffith | I'm headed to the airport here and will be travelling today but otherwise.... | 17:12 |
| jgriffith | kmartin: any FC updates? | 17:12 |
| eharney | ok | 17:13 |
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| kmartin | jgriffith: legal stuff...but that has not stopped us from starting to code | 17:13 |
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| jgriffith | kmartin: Ok.... please try and get some details added to the BP next week if you can | 17:14 |
| jgriffith | Ok... we're over time | 17:15 |
| jgriffith | Thanks everyone | 17:15 |
| jgriffith | #endmeeting | 17:16 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meetings || Development in #openstack-dev || Help in #openstack" | 17:16 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Nov 14 17:16:01 2012 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 17:16 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/cinder/2012/cinder.2012-11-14-16.03.html | 17:16 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/cinder/2012/cinder.2012-11-14-16.03.txt | 17:16 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/cinder/2012/cinder.2012-11-14-16.03.log.html | 17:16 |
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| DuncanT | Thanks john | 17:16 |
| winston-d | jgriffith, have a nice trip~ | 17:16 |
| jgriffith | winston-d: thanks!! | 17:16 |
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| kmartin | jgriffith: will try | 17:17 |
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| CaptTofu | moin moin | 18:00 |
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| jcmartin | hi there | 18:00 |
| Kiall | Hiya | 18:00 |
| Kiall | #startmeeting DNSaaS | 18:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Nov 14 18:00:47 2012 UTC. The chair is Kiall. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 18:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 18:00 |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'dnsaas' | 18:00 |
| Kiall | #link http://wiki.openstack.org/Meetings/DNSaaS | 18:00 |
| Kiall | Agenda ^ | 18:01 |
| Kiall | Everyone here? | 18:01 |
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| Kiall | I'll take that as a yes! | 18:01 |
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| Kiall | #topic Current Status | 18:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Current Status" | 18:02 | |
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| Kiall | First off - I have to apologize for getting (virtually) nothing done since our last meeting. I've been up to my eyes with other work. | 18:02 |
| CaptTofu | you have helped a lot actually | 18:03 |
| CaptTofu | plus have assisted me quite a bit | 18:03 |
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| Kiall | The main piece that landed was the bind backend moving to a driver based system | 18:03 |
| CaptTofu | it's a very clean change | 18:03 |
| jcmartin | We don't need to be too aggressive either, and we should do the right things | 18:03 |
| Kiall | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/15671/ | 18:03 |
| Kiall | jcmartin, agreed | 18:03 |
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| CaptTofu | agreed here too | 18:03 |
| jcmartin | posted my blurb | 18:03 |
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| jcmartin | #link http://wiki.openstack.org/Moniker/Deployment | 18:03 |
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| Kiall | jcmartin, Great | 18:04 |
| CaptTofu | I myself have made progress with mysqlbind | 18:04 |
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| CaptTofu | and modified mysqlbind in the process to have one singe table vs. one per zone | 18:04 |
| Kiall | jcmartin, want to bring us through it? | 18:04 |
| jcmartin | I think that based on the deployment doc, and before to implement too much, we need to talk about the backend/plugin model | 18:05 |
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| Kiall | jcmartin, sure.. | 18:05 |
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| jcmartin | do you want to do that through mailing list ? | 18:06 |
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| Kiall | jcmartin, sure, will you get that thread going with your thoughts? You're probably in the best position to get that ball rolling | 18:07 |
| jcmartin | I will. | 18:07 |
| Kiall | #action jcmartin to start ML thread on deployment models and implications for backend implementations | 18:08 |
| jcmartin | I have an update on incubation too | 18:08 |
| Kiall | #topic incubation | 18:08 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "incubation" | 18:08 | |
| Kiall | Great :) | 18:08 |
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| jcmartin | the TC is revisiting the model | 18:08 |
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| jcmartin | The plan is to separate the definition of core for trademarks purpose, managed by foundation board | 18:09 |
| Kiall | Yea - I've been following that ML thread .. But I've not seen any clear "winning" opinion yet | 18:09 |
| jcmartin | from the definition of openstack services, managed by TC | 18:09 |
| jcmartin | the TC would like to move the gate to be up before too much investment is made to accept a project as incubated | 18:10 |
| jcmartin | I don't know what is the timeline for this decision (next TC/Board) | 18:10 |
| Kiall | Do the TC or PPB have a timeline for a meeting on the topic? | 18:10 |
| Kiall | heh - beat me to it | 18:10 |
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| jcmartin | It seems that anyway for moniker, the 'best' route is incubation | 18:11 |
| jcmartin | what do you think ? | 18:11 |
| jcmartin | the alternative was piggy backing on Quantum | 18:11 |
| jcmartin | but I don't see the affinity too much | 18:11 |
| Kiall | Right - I've personally never seen how the piggyback on Quantum would work | 18:11 |
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| jcmartin | it was going to be more of an administrative issue than technical anyway | 18:12 |
| Kiall | Okay - So are we in a position to request incubation, or should we wait for the TC and PPB's decisions first? | 18:12 |
| Kiall | (My feeling is we should wait) | 18:12 |
| jcmartin | Let me find out from someone at the TC what their recommendation is, but I guess that before to go to the incubation review, we neet a bit more 'aging' | 18:13 |
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| Kiall | I don't think there is any reason to rush the application, anytime before H opens should be good? | 18:13 |
| jcmartin | I agree, no rush | 18:13 |
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| Kiall | Great :) So we can push all that aside for the moment and get on with other things :) | 18:14 |
| jcmartin | we should do a bit more formalization. One of them is blueprint type of spec | 18:14 |
| jcmartin | But code should not wait | 18:14 |
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| Kiall | Yea - I think moniker is getting to the point of being stable enough that BPs make sense for big changes (It's still buggy - but architecturally should be pretty complete) | 18:15 |
| jcmartin | minus the plugin model ;-) | 18:16 |
| CaptTofu | we did a demo with it yesterday | 18:16 |
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| Kiall | I said "pretty complete" didn't I? :) | 18:16 |
| CaptTofu | plugin model - regards to openstack as a whole? | 18:16 |
| Kiall | Any more thoughts on incubation and stability before we move on? | 18:16 |
| jcmartin | done on my side | 18:17 |
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| jcmartin | will keep an eye on progress | 18:17 |
| Kiall | CaptTofu, the way backends work now is a little up for discussion. jcmartin is going to start a thread on the ML | 18:17 |
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| Kiall | to discuss the specifcs | 18:17 |
| Kiall | specifics* | 18:17 |
| CaptTofu | right, I saw that | 18:17 |
| Kiall | #topic Grizzly-1 Milestone Targets | 18:17 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Grizzly-1 Milestone Targets" | 18:17 | |
| CaptTofu | but I thought by "plugins" that it was another issue | 18:17 |
| Kiall | So - I would like to try and get some features "complete" before G1 | 18:18 |
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| Kiall | 1) Final versions of notification handlers (zykes- had a go at these yesterday I believe) | 18:18 |
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| Kiall | 2) Wire up the keystone and policy code I've got in place | 18:18 |
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| Kiall | 3) a working Python API and CLI | 18:18 |
| CaptTofu | and I have an action item on 3 | 18:19 |
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| andrewbogott | When is G1? | 18:19 |
| Kiall | Does anything think we need to try and get more (or less) than that done? | 18:19 |
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| jcmartin | we should focus on finishing up the notification part | 18:19 |
| Kiall | andrewbogott, soon! just over a week | 18:19 |
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| Kiall | I think it's doable. The notifications are an hour or so, the python API and CLI should be a few hours, and the keystone+policy stuff a few hours | 18:20 |
| jcmartin | do you need keystone+policy for notifications ? | 18:21 |
| Kiall | (I'm not suggesting perfect, bug free by then. Simply "works in best case scenario" level) | 18:21 |
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| Kiall | No, Not for the stock handlers we agreed on last week anyway. | 18:21 |
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| jcmartin | seems a good plan | 18:22 |
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| Kiall | andrewbogott, I know I'm holding you up on the Python API+CLI. I'll unblock you tonight. | 18:22 |
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| CaptTofu | I'd like to help on that. | 18:22 |
| andrewbogott | Kiall, did my question about 'with warlock' vs 'like warlock' make sense? Will all that be obvious once you write your demo code? | 18:23 |
| Kiall | andrewbogott, what's your bandwidth like over the next week? Am I asking too much? | 18:23 |
| Kiall | Oh - Sorry - I forgot to respond to that Q earlier :) | 18:23 |
| andrewbogott | I should be free to work on this, barring emergencies. | 18:23 |
| Kiall | Probably with | 18:23 |
| andrewbogott | ok, that's what I was thinking as well. | 18:24 |
| CaptTofu | same here | 18:24 |
| CaptTofu | I could use it hence I would be glad to help on it | 18:24 |
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| Kiall | Probably with warlock - it works.. and allows us to reuse the server side schemas to handle the basic object model+validation needed in the pythonAPI + client | 18:24 |
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| CaptTofu | Kiall: is there another client API that uses for gleaning at? | 18:25 |
| CaptTofu | client-cli, ... | 18:25 |
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| Kiall | So - Does anyone think that, bar those 3 features, we stop adding features and concentrate on stability+tests? | 18:25 |
| CaptTofu | yes. | 18:25 |
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| jcmartin | kiall for G or for G1 ? | 18:25 |
| Kiall | CaptTofu, yes - although I can't remember which project that was! I'll look for it later | 18:25 |
| CaptTofu | I do have my HP mysqlbind tasks, but my time is full time on this. | 18:25 |
| Kiall | jcmartin, well for G1, and if we get to a well-tested+doc'd point, add more for G | 18:26 |
| jcmartin | ok | 18:26 |
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| zykes- | here | 18:26 |
| zykes- | sorry for being out but I needed to go get something urgently | 18:26 |
| Kiall | I'd really like to get something stable that people can actually use, I think that will help find the current weaknesses :) | 18:27 |
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| Kiall | zykes-, no hassle. Did you make any progress on notification handlers yesterday? (Even after all the confusion I added! Sorry about that ;)) | 18:27 |
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| zykes- | a bit | 18:27 |
| zykes- | though i still have post marriage traumatic stress | 18:28 |
| zykes- | :p | 18:28 |
| Kiall | Anything holding you up that need fixing? | 18:28 |
| Kiall | That can be fixed ;) | 18:28 |
| Kiall | Okay - Guess not :) Last specific topic so! | 18:29 |
| Kiall | (Also - Tell me to slow down if I'm moving too fast for anyone) | 18:29 |
| Kiall | #topic API - Flask vs OpenStack Common's implementation | 18:29 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "API - Flask vs OpenStack Common's implementation" | 18:29 | |
| Kiall | jcmartin suggested this topic for last week's agenda, but we just didn't have time! | 18:30 |
| CaptTofu | is this a vote situation? | 18:30 |
| Kiall | Discussion to start with! | 18:30 |
| zykes- | isn't dhellmann working on Pecan as well ? | 18:30 |
| zykes- | just as a suggestion | 18:30 |
| zykes- | :p | 18:30 |
| jcmartin | Is there a precedent of using flask in openstack ? all the projects seem to be using wsgi directly | 18:30 |
| Kiall | jcmartin, yes/no - ceilometer does | 18:31 |
| Kiall | but it's still in incubation | 18:31 |
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| jcmartin | I am in favor to align with what other projects are doing, but it doesn't seem that there is a huge unity anyway | 18:31 |
| zykes- | Kiall: aren't they re-tooling Kiall ? | 18:31 |
| zykes- | ehm, retooling to pecan | 18:31 |
| CaptTofu | I have yet to see a clear means of how to do a skeletal project and have REST/wsgi set up easily | 18:31 |
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| Kiall | jcmartin, right. That was one of my reasons for using Flask. There was no (clean) os-common way | 18:32 |
| Kiall | I understand the os-common/oslo folks are working on that though | 18:32 |
| jcmartin | the main functional requirement is the support of xtensions in the 'openstack way' | 18:32 |
| CaptTofu | is it all icing on the cake? | 18:33 |
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| CaptTofu | or are there major differences? | 18:33 |
| Kiall | I'm going to be honest, I've barely ever looked at the 'openstack way' to handle extensions :) | 18:33 |
| zykes- | :o | 18:33 |
| CaptTofu | I tried to | 18:33 |
| Kiall | I've got some Flask based API's where extensions are supported | 18:33 |
| jcmartin | kiall: it's not the most intuitive way, but it works | 18:34 |
| CaptTofu | but couldn't figure out how you'd go about writing something from skeletal up | 18:34 |
| jcmartin | I did a skeleton based on quantum+common | 18:34 |
| CaptTofu | that'd be good to see | 18:34 |
| CaptTofu | my main problem is being new to this | 18:34 |
| Kiall | jcmartin, I guess we need to figure out if we can implement something for flask quicker, and cleaner, than switching to the OS-Common implementation. | 18:34 |
| jcmartin | I don't have a lot of bandwidth, but I can try a prototype on Moniker the "quantum way" | 18:35 |
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| jcmartin | this would be a best effort for now | 18:35 |
| Kiall | Also - I would be concerned that the OS-Common WSGI stuff is not stable yet, and is still changing | 18:35 |
| jcmartin | kiall: true | 18:35 |
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| Kiall | jcmartin, I'd actually like to see that - and would give us a great comparison to really understand the differences | 18:35 |
| Kiall | Our API is tiny - so I would imaging most of the work would be getting the boilerplate going? | 18:36 |
| jcmartin | Ok, i'll try but again, best effort ;-) | 18:36 |
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| Kiall | sure - won't hold you to it :) | 18:36 |
| jcmartin | yes, that's the problem :reverse engineering the other stuff | 18:36 |
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| jcmartin | although it seems like pecan is nice too ... | 18:37 |
| Kiall | jcmartin, exactly :) That scared me right off initially.. I had the initial API written and working in 20 mins when I started Moniker ;) | 18:37 |
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| zykes- | jcmartin: i think it got voted to be the "DEFAULT" in the session at the summit that was | 18:37 |
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| Kiall | #link http://pecanpy.org/ | 18:37 |
| Kiall | zykes-, interesting. Was there a etherpad at that topic? | 18:38 |
| jcmartin | zykes-: for ceilo or in common ? | 18:38 |
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| zykes- | Kiall: let me see... | 18:39 |
| zykes- | https://etherpad.openstack.org/grizzly-common-wsgi-frameworks | 18:40 |
| Kiall | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/grizzly-common-wsgi-frameworks | 18:40 |
| zykes- | out of those I think they picked Pecan | 18:40 |
| zykes- | to be the best candidate | 18:40 |
| Kiall | 250 lines is probably too long to read during a meeting | 18:40 |
| Kiall | jcmartin, I'm going to do some digging - and will get in touch with the oslo guys for next week. | 18:41 |
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| zykes- | check with dhellmann also Kiall | 18:41 |
| Kiall | I'd like to see what they have planned | 18:41 |
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| Kiall | zykes-, will do. | 18:42 |
| zykes- | http://pastebin.com/Rje9V6Xg < is what I have for handlers atm | 18:42 |
| CaptTofu | what are the implications for pecan, stock os common, and flask? | 18:42 |
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| Kiall | So - jcmartin - Will we keep the API stuff on the agenda for next week, or is that too soon for you to have a stab at the os-common example? | 18:42 |
| jcmartin | let's wait to see what zykes- say. I think we need to decide at the next meeting if we go pecan or swgi/quantum | 18:43 |
| zykes- | i think we should check with oslo / ceilometer dudes | 18:44 |
| Kiall | CaptTofu, Well. os-common/oslo WSGI is staying around for a good while. So there's no harm in looking into it.. And if Pecan is the "new default", then it looks similar enough to flask that I would have no issue switching (Don't hold me to that) | 18:44 |
| zykes- | since ceilometer folks are stuck in the same situation | 18:44 |
| jcmartin | but it will be too soon for the example, since it impacts also the plugin model | 18:44 |
| Kiall | zykes-, right. I'll ping markmc tomorrow re olso's WSGI | 18:44 |
| CaptTofu | Kiall: that sounds good | 18:44 |
| jcmartin | and next week is almost off in the US | 18:44 |
| CaptTofu | oh, yeah | 18:45 |
| CaptTofu | forgot about that | 18:45 |
| CaptTofu | yay | 18:45 |
| Kiall | jcmartin, okay - no problem. Just let me know when you want to pick it back up | 18:45 |
| jcmartin | let's sync up next week | 18:45 |
| Kiall | and I'll stick it on the agenda for the next meet after that | 18:45 |
| jcmartin | we can have zykes- report next week | 18:45 |
| Kiall | #action kiall to contact olso folks re upcoming wsgi changes in oslo | 18:45 |
| jcmartin | or kiall then ;-) | 18:46 |
| Kiall | Oh - I didn't notice zykes- offering :) | 18:46 |
| zykes- | jcmartin: what should I report ? :p | 18:46 |
| Kiall | I think jcmartin mixed us up ;) | 18:46 |
| zykes- | :o | 18:47 |
| jcmartin | i though you voluntered but you said "we shoudl check" sorry ;-) | 18:47 |
| zykes- | ;P | 18:47 |
| Kiall | So - Any more thoughts on the API/WSGI implementation? We'll regroup on it next week after I've figured out oslo's plans and spoken to dhellmann | 18:47 |
| Kiall | #action kiall to contact dhellmann re https://etherpad.openstack.org/grizzly-common-wsgi-frameworks and Pecan | 18:47 |
| Kiall | #topic Open Discussion | 18:48 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion" | 18:48 | |
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| Kiall | Last thing on the agenda - Does anyone have anything else to add? | 18:48 |
| Kiall | Anything we haven't discussed? | 18:49 |
| jcmartin | what backends do you guys are using ? bind ? | 18:49 |
| CaptTofu | mysqlbind here | 18:49 |
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| jcmartin | how do you handle zone creation ? | 18:49 |
| CaptTofu | I need to fork that project oo | 18:49 |
| Kiall | I have a PowerDNS backend, but it's not my code to release. | 18:49 |
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| jcmartin | do you have caching layer ? | 18:49 |
| CaptTofu | jcmartin: you meanmemcached? | 18:50 |
| jcmartin | no, non authoritative dns servers | 18:50 |
| CaptTofu | ah | 18:50 |
| Kiall | I think he means how are slaves handled | 18:50 |
| CaptTofu | I was going to work on the slave agent | 18:50 |
| CaptTofu | that's pretty easy | 18:50 |
| jcmartin | at ebay we have tons of caches, and zone creation is tricky | 18:50 |
| CaptTofu | dunno if that's in the realm of this issue | 18:50 |
| CaptTofu | what was the tricky thing about it? How to update only those that you need to? | 18:51 |
| Kiall | jcmartin, what do you guys use? bind? powerdns? something else? | 18:51 |
| jcmartin | one of the issue I wanted to discuss in the ML is how much Moniker should care about DNS deployment issues | 18:51 |
| jcmartin | We have bind + nominum + F5 GLB | 18:52 |
| CaptTofu | that would be in the agent, correct? | 18:52 |
| jcmartin | if you need to change the config on the cache, yes | 18:52 |
| jcmartin | but it's a different agent | 18:52 |
| Kiall | jcmartin, nominum is managed via a REST API, correct? | 18:52 |
| jcmartin | you would have to have one for powerDNS/mysql | 18:52 |
| jcmartin | and one for the caching server | 18:52 |
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| jcmartin | YEs, REST | 18:53 |
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| CaptTofu | I wouldn't mind looking at powerdns | 18:53 |
| CaptTofu | it'd have to be a whole new implementation than you have, right Kiall? | 18:53 |
| zykes- | powerdns is pretty powerful | 18:53 |
| zykes- | :) | 18:53 |
| Kiall | CaptTofu, from a easy of use point of view, nothing beats powerdns | 18:53 |
| jcmartin | my concern is the plurality of agent/agent types | 18:53 |
| CaptTofu | if I push PowerDNS for my solution, I want to know more about it | 18:54 |
| Kiall | jcmartin, Ah, I see where you going with this.. | 18:54 |
| CaptTofu | jcmartin: do you mean how dns is set up systemically? | 18:54 |
| jcmartin | PowerDNS will configure the master using mysql/ldap/ ... | 18:54 |
| Kiall | bind for masters and F5 load balancing to a pool of nominum slaves? | 18:54 |
| jcmartin | but the caches are configured through files, and for each new zone, you have to update the config I think | 18:54 |
| jcmartin | F5 has this smart DNS layer giving you geo based resolution | 18:55 |
| Kiall | (FYI - We're running out of time BTW) | 18:55 |
| jcmartin | it behaves like an auth server | 18:55 |
| jcmartin | I'll move the discussion on ML. see you there then | 18:55 |
| Kiall | jcmartin, great. | 18:56 |
| Kiall | Any other issues/comments etc before I close the meeting? | 18:56 |
| Kiall | 5.... 4... | 18:56 |
| Kiall | #endmeeting | 18:56 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meetings || Development in #openstack-dev || Help in #openstack" | 18:56 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Nov 14 18:56:45 2012 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 18:56 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/dnsaas/2012/dnsaas.2012-11-14-18.00.html | 18:56 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/dnsaas/2012/dnsaas.2012-11-14-18.00.txt | 18:56 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/dnsaas/2012/dnsaas.2012-11-14-18.00.log.html | 18:56 |
| Kiall | Thanks all! | 18:56 |
| CaptTofu | thanks! | 18:57 |
| jcmartin | thx | 18:57 |
| Kiall | jcmartin, BTW | 18:57 |
| jcmartin | yep | 18:57 |
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| jcmartin | move to #openstack-dns ? | 18:57 |
| Kiall | I'd love to hear a little bit more detail on specifics of the ebay setup that has you worried, I presume you can't spit that out to the whole world via the ML? | 18:57 |
| Kiall | Sure | 18:57 |
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