Wednesday, 2012-10-03

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jgriffith#start meeting cinder16:01
jgriffith#startmeeting cinder16:01
openstackMeeting started Wed Oct  3 16:01:27 2012 UTC.  The chair is jgriffith. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.16:01
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.16:01
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'cinder'16:01
jgriffithHey everyone!16:01
bswartzhi16:02
jgriffithHey bswartz16:02
DuncanTHey16:02
jgriffithThere's DuncanT16:02
jgriffithrnirmal: around?16:02
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jgriffithhmmm16:03
jgriffithI was hoping to go through summit seesion proposals16:03
bswartzsmall meeting today?16:03
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bswartzwere the meetings this small back in the nova-volume days?16:03
rnirmaljgriffith: yes16:04
DuncanTbswartz: 4 was not unusual in those days16:04
jgriffithbswartz: The usually didn't happen :)16:04
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jgriffith#topic summit sessions16:05
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jgriffithbswartz: Yeah... too many side conversations going :)16:05
jgriffithSo we have 10 proposals so far for 7 slots :(16:05
bswartztoo many is better than too few!16:06
DuncanTWe've 5 things we want to talk about, but 4 of them should take a minute or two each I believe...16:06
jgriffithbswartz: yes, unless your the owner of the ones that get cut :(16:06
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DuncanTI was wondering if there was a sessino for small stuff like that?16:06
jgriffithDuncanT: two options16:06
jgriffith1. Make a combined session16:06
jgriffith2. unconference session16:06
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jgriffithDepending on the topic there might be good opportunity to combine with something that's already proposed16:07
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bswartzjgriffith: what is the decision process for what gets in/gets cut?16:07
rnirmaljgriffith: the volume resize can be combined with api 2.016:07
jgriffithbswartz: Just like everything in the OpenStack community we decide as a group for the most part16:08
rnirmalessentially it's new functionality16:08
jgriffithrnirmal: agreed16:08
DuncanTThe list is iops billing/meeting, glace metadata retention, secure attach, list bootable volumes and volume backup16:08
bswartzjgriffith: just this group? or the wider community?16:08
jgriffithbswartz: Mostly this group, core cinder group16:08
jgriffithbswartz: Those that participate and work on Cinder on a regular basis should obviously have a little more control over design sessions wouldn't you think?16:09
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DuncanTI propose we make the choice by a mad-max style cage fight...16:09
bswartzyes that makes sense16:09
creihtyeah that's how the other projects do it16:09
creihthah16:09
jgriffith+1 on cage fights!16:09
creihtI wish there was a way to just see the cinder proposed talks16:09
bswartzthere is16:09
bswartzhttp://summit.openstack.org/16:10
rnirmalcreiht: sort on topic16:10
bswartzsort by topic16:10
creihtoh there16:10
creihtheh16:10
jgriffith:)16:10
jgriffithcreiht: Any objection to combining 2.0 API and volume-resize?16:10
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bswartzfor those that don't know, the one propsed by Robert Esker is mine16:11
rongzevolume-resize is increase size ?16:11
rnirmalrongze: yes16:11
jgriffithThe other option would be to meld it in with types, extra-specs and QoS as a "features discussion"16:11
jgriffithThat one would surely go over!16:11
DuncanTI think the types one is going to be big enough as is16:11
rnirmaljgriffith: the volume_types may not be title right... but I'd like to keep it focused around scheduling16:11
jgriffithrnirmal: I'm fine with the title because we need to clarify that and the summit is a good time to do it16:12
rnirmaljgriffith: we might need more than a full session for that :P16:12
jgriffithThe other option is...16:12
bswartzare all 7 slots 1-hour long?16:12
jgriffith50 minutes16:12
jgriffithnew format this year, all are the same length of time16:12
creihtjgriffith: what if we had a more general new features session?16:13
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jgriffithcreiht: That's where I was heading16:13
creihtI would like the api talk to mostly cover where the current api gaps are16:13
creihtahh cool... just catching up sorry16:13
jgriffithcreiht: Ok... and I think I'd like to have the features discussion prior to the API agree?16:13
creihtyeah that would be good16:14
DuncanTThat makes sense16:14
jgriffiththe tricky thing is that most of what's proposed are all features :)16:14
creihthah16:14
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rnirmalmaybe group smaller items16:14
bswartzthis "Living in a world without Iscsi" topic doesn't make sense to me16:14
rnirmalleave the larger ones as is16:14
jgriffithbswartz: I was actually thinking of combining that with yours :)16:14
bswartzis Chuck Short in here?16:15
DuncanTrnirmal: It looks like multibackend is part of types/scheduling to me... does that make sense to you?16:15
zullurking in the background16:15
rnirmalDuncanT: yes and no... I'm worried that might take longer than an hr16:15
jgriffithOk... let's back up a second16:15
rnirmalas in combining those16:15
jgriffithFirst... is there anything on the list that can obviously be cut or easily moved to unconf?16:16
jgriffithzul: You'll hate me but I think I'd propose yours is moved16:16
jgriffithzul: The reason is that even though iSCSI isn't necessary in some of those cases16:16
jgriffithit is required for instance if your cinder node isn't the same as your compute node16:17
jgriffithzul: managing the whole node thing adds complexity that I'd rather not have special cases for all over the place16:17
jgriffithUnless there's something you have in mind that I'm missing16:17
zuljgriffith:  cool...16:17
jgriffithzul: Wow!  Really, that was easy :)16:18
zuljgriffith: it just looked like to me that you need icssi everywhere16:18
* jgriffith will live in fear of zuls revenge16:18
bswartzjgriffith: I'm not opposed to combining, but zul's talk doesn't seem to fit in with what I'm proposing16:18
jgriffithzul: I think you do as soon as you deal with multi nodes16:18
jgriffithbswartz: depends on your point of view :)16:18
DuncanTCeph doesn't require iscsi at all I think?16:18
DuncanTAs an example16:19
jgriffithDuncanT: I'm talking LVM, Ceph is another animal16:19
DuncanTAh, yes, you'll need iscsi or similar for LVM for sure16:19
zuli think that you can use the the libvirt driver for ceph and not hook into iscsi in order to use it, i need to do more research though16:19
DuncanTSounds more and more like a candidate for unconf16:20
jgriffithzul: I believe you're correct, as is true with LVM etc, BUT again iSCSI won't go away regardless16:20
jgriffithOk... I move that one goes to unconference:16:20
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zuljgriffith: true im thinking right interface for the right job16:20
jgriffithzul: I'm with you there and have no problem with for example Ceph using it's own driver and not inheriting the iSCSI driver16:20
zuljgriffith: cool i just need to learn more about ceph16:21
jgriffithOk.. anybody second the motion?16:21
DuncanT+1 on unconf16:21
creiht+116:21
rnirmal+116:21
bswartz+!16:21
bswartz+1 even16:21
jgriffithok...16:21
jgriffithnext16:21
creihtzul: ceph should be able to work, just needs a little different driver, and can't rely on the stuff that the iscsi driver already provides16:22
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zulcreiht: right16:22
jgriffithtypes, extra_specs and QoS16:22
creihtit worked before (or so I heard) with nova-volume, so I'm not sure why it wouldn't work with cinder?16:22
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DuncanTtypes & scheduling I think is an important one16:22
jgriffithI'd propose those two and Multi-backend support are moved around into two sessions16:22
creihtagreed16:22
rnirmalI'm good with that16:23
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winston-d+116:23
rnirmalprobably have them as back to back sessions16:23
bswartzjgriffith: what are the 2 sessions?16:23
DuncanTSorry, those two and multi-backend?16:23
bswartzscheduling & multi-backend?16:24
jgriffithbswartz: Two sessions16:24
jgriffithbswartz: Take three and merge them into two16:24
bswartzoh I get it16:24
rongzehow many cinder sessions in openstack summit ?16:24
DuncanTI don't. Exactly which 3?16:24
jgriffithrongze: 7 maybe more16:24
rnirmaljgriffith: I don't think we have 3 proposed... just 216:24
rnirmalbut including discussion of scheduling within those topics16:24
jgriffithDuncanT:1. types, extra-specs, Qos16:25
winston-dtypes, scheduling, multi-backend16:25
jgriffith2. volume resize16:25
jdurginjust to clarify: ceph has no relation to iscsi, and the rbd driver does not need it to be installed, and the driver still works in nova-volume and cinder16:25
jgriffith3. multi-backend16:25
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creihtjdurgin: cool, thanks for the clarification :)16:25
DuncanTjgriffith: Got you.16:25
jgriffithThose were the 3 sessions I was thinking of collapsing into 216:25
DuncanTI think resize is a totally separate discussion, but I guess 2 hours for 3 topics is not unreasonable16:26
rnirmaljgriffith: volume resize fits more with a new features session than the other 216:26
jgriffithDuncanT: Logically yes, but do we need 50 minutes for resize?16:26
creihtactually isn't volume resize going to be backend dependent? so is it more about having an api for it, or are you suggesting there should be implementation in cinder?16:26
DuncanTI think resize is a small part of new features discussion16:26
jgriffithcreiht: That's my thought16:26
jgriffithcreiht: It's almost a no-op in my book16:26
creihtyeah agreed16:26
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jgriffithrnirmal: Any problem with moving that to unconf?16:27
rnirmalagreed... I just put it out there16:27
creihtcool16:27
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jgriffithOk, that puts us in good shape16:28
jgriffithI'm going to use any extra slots for general feature discussions16:28
DuncanTStill 8 on the list16:28
jgriffithDuncanT: Yeah, Horizon is likely to give us a slot or two16:28
jgriffithDuncanT: So we should be good16:28
DuncanTAh, cool16:28
DuncanTI guess we can try to have a fairly quorate unconf slot if necessary16:29
jgriffithOne other thing I need to look back at is a Cinder state of the unioon type thing16:29
jgriffithDuncanT: Hell we did all of our work at unconf last time :)16:29
DuncanTAye16:29
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creihthah16:30
creihtyou can get a lot done in the unconf :)16:30
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jgriffithcreiht: TBH they were more effective16:30
creihtI bet16:30
creihtthat's where all the people that realy care show up16:30
DuncanTWell, the fact that only people who were going to be writing code turned up helped massively I think16:30
jgriffithDuncanT: Yup16:31
johnpur_agree16:31
bswartzis there are tentative schedule posted somewhere already?16:31
rnirmalbswartz: for the unconference?16:32
jgriffithbswartz: http://openstacksummitfall2012.sched.org/16:32
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bswartzjgriffith: thanks that's what I meant16:32
jgriffithOur stuff will show up there when it's set16:32
rnirmalso cinder is just all day wednesday.. and jgriffith you mentioned we might get some time Thur?16:34
jgriffithrnirmal: yeah, actually may juggle around so were still all Wed16:34
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jgriffithDoes anybody plan to submit anything that's not there already?16:35
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creihtI think we are good16:35
* clayg checks for logs16:36
DuncanTAs I mentioned, we a bunch of small things for the features session16:36
* winston-d checks the logs16:36
jgriffithDuncanT: Get it in as soon as you can16:36
rnirmalDuncanT: I don't see a features session... looks like we need to add it16:37
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jgriffithDuncanT: Put together what you want and submit it, then I can combine it with other things if needed16:37
DuncanTAm doing so now16:37
rongzehow about the topic 'Local Storage Volume plugin for Cinder' ?16:40
bswartzrongze: I read that one, and it looks interesting -- not sure how it fits in with Cinder though16:41
bswartzlooks like cloudstack+swift for the most part16:41
rongzeyes16:41
DuncanThttp://summit.openstack.org/cfp/edit/13716:42
DuncanTWill add more blueprint links as I find them16:42
bswartz^ broken link16:42
uvirtbotbswartz: Error: "broken" is not a valid command.16:42
rongzeI am developing it16:42
jgriffithbswartz: DuncanT works for me16:42
DuncanTs/edit/details/ might help maybe?16:42
winston-ddoesn't work for me16:43
claygok, i'm all caught up - but I didn't see anyone call me out specifically for the two sessions I purposed - does that mean there's intrest?   Or did y'all all silently agree to ignore me before hand :P16:43
winston-ddetails works16:43
DuncanThttp://summit.openstack.org/cfp/details/13716:43
jgriffithAhhh... forgot I have the *magic* auth :)16:43
DuncanTClayg: Definitely interested in your lunr talk16:43
jgriffithDuncanT: perfect, and we can grow this if needed16:44
DuncanTClayg: And I guess the status discussion needs to be had at some point, though if you can fill 50 minutes with it I'll be impressed16:44
clayglol @ DuncanT16:44
creihthehe16:44
claygi can go *on* and *on* :P16:44
creihtDuncanT: you haven't seen clayg when he gets on a roll :)16:44
jgriffithclayg: but should it be a Cinder track?16:44
claygi'm kidding, I agree it should be a no brainer16:44
jgriffithclayg: Just kidding :)16:44
jgriffithOk, we're at 9.  I believe we can get two sessions to cover the gap16:45
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jgriffithIf not I'll combine some things and make it fit16:45
jgriffithAnything else on summit topics?16:46
jgriffithGoing once....16:46
jgriffithGoing twice....16:46
claygjgriffith: so can volume state/status be combined elsewhere?  DuncanT is right, i don't think it's a 50 min discussion?16:46
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jgriffithDoh!!16:46
jgriffithclayg: DuncanT What about dropping it into the "new features" session16:46
DuncanTSeems fine to me16:47
claygit may tie well together if some of the new features require new states/status?  i.e. "resizing"16:47
jgriffithcool!16:47
jgriffithLet's go with that16:47
DuncanTGoing once....16:47
jgriffithI'll fix put it in there and update things later16:47
jgriffithhehe16:47
claygthat was honestly what I wanted to hear most - if this is the set of statuses does it cover all of the features you want to implement?16:48
jgriffithclayg: That ties in well then I believe16:48
jgriffithvery cool16:48
claygperfecto!16:48
jgriffithSweetness!!16:48
jgriffithI think 8 sessions should be MORE than sufficient and we can use Unconf to continue discussions where needed16:49
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jgriffithSo I'm going to propose we wrap up this topic....16:49
* clayg twiddles thumbs16:50
jgriffithIf possible I'll make new features two back to back sessions, but I suspect the highly discussed ones will be more around types, QoS etc16:50
jgriffithAlright Done16:50
jgriffith#topic docs16:50
*** openstack changes topic to "docs"16:50
rnirmal:(16:50
claygYAY DOCS!16:51
jgriffithAnybody have anythign here ^^16:51
annegentlernirmal! Turn that frown upside down!16:51
bswartz:-)16:51
jgriffithannegentle: HA!16:51
annegentle:)16:51
rnirmalannegentle: :) I'm due for some docs16:51
bswartzjgriffith: I have a partial implementation of some netapp docs in my tree16:51
jgriffithbswartz: Coolness.. get it checked in as soon as you can please16:52
annegentlehow does your plan for API doc work with the upcoming summit? That is, ar eyou going to upload the draft now?16:52
bswartzmy time is getting squeezed by conference-related things so no guarantees on when it will be submitted16:52
cp16netbrb16:52
jgriffithbswartz: wait... what?16:52
bswartzthe netapp docs are started but not done16:52
jgriffithFolsom released, we really should have associated docs16:53
jgriffithOr as some would say, it's not really *done* until the docs are done16:53
bswartzwell, I'll do my best to get them done today16:53
jgriffithbswartz: Not pressuring or antyhing16:54
jgriffithbswartz: Not even today16:54
jgriffithbswartz: Just next week if you can16:54
jgriffithbswartz: I'm not singling you out either... I'm guilty as well16:54
jgriffithannegentle: Which API doc were you referring to there?16:55
jgriffithanderstj: I'm assuming the general openstack/api/docs no?16:55
jgriffithOoops  s/anderstj/annegentle/16:56
annegentlejgriffith: the one you got from David Hendler than can be posted to docs.openstack.org/api16:56
annegentlejgriffith: than/that16:56
jgriffithannegentle: Ohhh, I promised David I would have that today16:56
annegentlejgriffith: ok, great16:56
jgriffithAt least the first round16:56
annegentlejgriffith: stick it into volume-api so we can all review please?16:56
jgriffithactually I promised him last week, but apparantly I lied16:56
annegentlejgriffith: hee16:57
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jgriffithOk, I'll edit and get it to David TODAY!16:57
jgriffithAnd when he's good we'16:57
jgriffithll get it in volume-api16:57
jgriffithIs anybody else working on docs?16:58
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jgriffithjdurgin: anythign for ceph?16:58
jgriffithAnybody present for StorWiz?16:58
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rnirmaljgriffith: I'm working on a driver doc16:58
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rnirmalor atleast need to be16:58
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jgriffithrnirmal: cool, was hoping you were still up for it16:59
jdurginjgriffith: yeah, I've been working on some driver docs in the ceph tree, will get them into openstack-docs as well when they're ready16:59
jgriffithexcellent16:59
jgriffithOk, I'll stop badgering on that topic16:59
jgriffithI will say again, anybody who has knowledge/time take a look and see what you can add or fix on the docs side17:00
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jgriffith#topic open discussion17:00
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jgriffithAnybody have anything they want to talk about this week?17:00
claygsomeone click this one -> https://review.openstack.org/#/c/13816/17:01
claygwe've been carrying this one in our builds for awhile now -> https://review.openstack.org/#/c/13327/17:01
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claygthis is so old, I don't even know if it'll still merge -> https://review.openstack.org/#/c/12076/17:01
jgriffithON it17:02
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jgriffithDOH DuncanT beat me to it17:02
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claygfwiw, I have no idea how to contribute to the Windows Server and HP San reviews :\17:02
jgriffithclayg: Me neither17:02
jgriffithclayg: The HP one I can fake17:02
rnirmalis there a HP san review pending?17:02
jgriffithclayg: The Windows one I have NO idea17:03
claygrnirmal: something about snaphosts?17:03
jgriffithclayg: I guess we have to trust them and just look for general coding issues?17:03
rnirmaljgriffith: I can test the HP snapshot17:03
rnirmaljgriffith: I'll take that17:03
jgriffithrnirmal: That would be awesome!17:03
jgriffithWhat do folks think on the Windows one?17:04
DuncanTHaven't had time to look at it, but I guess we have to trust them on funtionality at the moment17:05
jgriffithDuncanT: yeah, it's a HUGE patch17:05
jgriffithbut the good thing is most of it is test files17:05
DuncanTActually, automated functional testing of cinder would make a great summit session....17:05
claygI'm so confused about those gz/pickled mocks - what is going on with that?17:05
claygDuncanT: do we get devstack/exercise/volumes ?17:06
jgriffithclayg: NAICT they're simulated responses from the MS servers17:06
rnirmalyeah even if they are mock objects.... I don't think they should be checked in pickled17:06
claygjgriffith: but why all the obfuscation?  Why not just show me what the responses look like with real mock objects written in plain python?17:06
jgriffithclayg: because it's MS17:06
jgriffith:)17:06
jgriffithclayg: Have you ever worked with .Net :)17:07
jgriffithOk... seriously, I couldn't tell ya.  Feel free to review -1 and ask those very questions17:07
DuncanTclayg: There's loads missing from devstack exerciser, though adding more is on my (long) list, and some way of having it run regularly on various implementations automagically would be great17:07
jgriffithDuncanT: clayg We need work on tests for sure17:08
jgriffithDuncanT: clayg I'd like to do unconf for that at the session17:08
DuncanTI vaguely propose an unconference / beer session for testing17:08
jgriffithAlso we need things like Grenade in an ongoing fashion17:08
jgriffithBEER!!!!17:08
DuncanTGrenade?17:08
winston-ddoes tempest work with cinder?17:08
jgriffithwinston-d: yes17:08
winston-dgood to know17:09
jgriffithDuncanT: github/nebula/grenade17:09
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jgriffithDuncanT: does an Essex->Folsom test17:09
jgriffithIncludes upgrading nova-vol --> Cinder17:09
DuncanTFWIW I've been doing some work on spinning up multi-node folsom clouds in the cloud, and it works great... not done much on automating it though17:09
DuncanTOooo, grenade looks really useful17:10
jgriffithDuncanT: Tis17:10
jgriffithDuncanT: That's awesome news17:10
jgriffithDuncanT: Used Cinder in that scenario yet?17:10
DuncanTYup17:11
DuncanTHad a load of conf file issues but got it working in the end17:11
DuncanTI'll see if I can have a demo for you at the summit17:12
jgriffithNice!  We're working on one as well for the summit17:12
jgriffithFirst thing Monday morning :)17:12
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jgriffithAlrighty... we should probably call it a meeting at this point17:13
jgriffithThanks everyone!!!17:13
jgriffithLooking forward to seeing you all at the Summit!17:13
rongzeI have a question . the status of cinder session in http://summit.openstack.org/  is Unreviewed , what is the mean?  Unreviewed is Preapproved ?17:13
jgriffithrongze: It means I haven't gone through all of them and said yes/no yet :)17:13
jgriffithrongze: I'll be doing that at the end of the week17:14
rongzethank you, john17:14
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jgriffithrongze: No problem17:14
jgriffithAny other questions?17:14
jgriffithAlrighty... thanks again!17:14
jgriffith#endmeeting17:14
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meetings || Development in #openstack-dev || Help in #openstack"17:15
openstackMeeting ended Wed Oct  3 17:14:58 2012 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)17:15
DuncanTCheers all17:15
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/cinder/2012/cinder.2012-10-03-16.01.html17:15
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/cinder/2012/cinder.2012-10-03-16.01.txt17:15
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/cinder/2012/cinder.2012-10-03-16.01.log.html17:15
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