Tuesday, 2010-10-12

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zulgday20:55
alekibangoplease add link to http://wiki.openstack.org/Meetings  in the topic (only admins can)20:56
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root_whoot20:57
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dendrobatesvishy_anotherjes:  hey guys20:58
vishy_anotherjesdendrobates: hi20:58
vishy_anotherjesinternet is a bit spotty here20:59
dendrobatesvish  at least one of your merge proposals has conflicts, will you have time to fix it?20:59
vishy_anotherjesdendrobates: they are all mine20:59
vishy_anotherjes--vish20:59
vishy_anotherjesand yes, i'll fix them tonight20:59
jbrycevishy_anotherjes: have vish and jesse been merged?20:59
dendrobatessweet20:59
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vishy_anotherjesjbryce: yes, didn't you see the blueprint?21:00
jbrycevishy_anotherjes: i didn't expect it to happen so soon21:00
dendrobateswe will wait a few minutes for stragglers21:00
jaypipesvishy_anotherjes: hehe, you guys have officially formed one human now, eh? :)21:00
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vishy_anotherjesjaypipes: don't worry, vishy still does the coding ;) -- jesse21:00
jaypipeshehe21:01
sebastianstadil:-)21:01
dendrobates#startmeeting21:02
openstackMeeting started Tue Oct 12 21:02:30 2010 UTC.  The chair is dendrobates. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.21:02
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.21:02
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dendrobatesWelcome everyone21:02
soreno/21:02
* jaypipes welcomes back dendrobates as meeting leader. long live dendrobates.21:02
sorenOur fearless leader!21:02
dendrobatesI am going to try to keep this very short, since we are all working so hard to get the release out.21:03
dendrobatesbut I will probably fail21:03
dendrobatesAs always the agenda is on the wiki:21:03
dendrobates#link http://wiki.openstack.org/Meetings21:03
dendrobatesThe minutes will be posted here:21:03
dendrobates#link http://wiki.openstack.org/MeetingLogs21:03
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alekibangoplease add link to http://wiki.openstack.org/Meetings  to the topic (only admins can)21:03
dendrobatesbefore we start does anyone have any agenda items?21:04
jaypipesdendrobates: I'd like a raise.21:04
dendrobatesI want to thank alekibango for adding an agenda item on the wiki21:04
dendrobatesjaypipes: ha21:04
alekibango:)21:04
sorenI'd like two.21:04
dendrobates#topic release status21:05
dendrobatesWe are now 10 days from the release and we really need to get all remaining merges finished.21:05
dendrobates#link https://code.launchpad.net/nova/+activereviews21:05
dendrobates#link https://code.launchpad.net/swift/+activereviews21:05
jaypipesdendrobates: there's a number of those that are in the "having heard back from the contributor" stage. :(21:06
dendrobatesI will be personally contacting all those people21:06
vishy_anotherjesdendrobates: what is the dot release strategy for this release?  Right now we are trying to work through edge cases that occur when you run thousands of instances with high concurrency21:06
jaypipesdendrobates: s/having/haven't21:06
jaypipesvishy_anotherjes: do you propose a strategy?21:07
dendrobateswe do not plan on dot releases for the first 2 3month releases21:07
dendrobatesthere might be patches, but not a  dot release21:07
dendrobatessince we are releasing so quickly in succession21:08
vishy_anotherjesmaybe it isn't important then21:08
dendrobatesit will quickly become difficult to provide backports for fixes.21:09
jaypipesdendrobates: release == package?  if so, I would advise for having some standardized (dot) version.21:09
sorenI don't think, generally, we'd want to do dot releases.21:09
dendrobatesrelease != package21:09
jaypipessoren, dendrobates: pls elaborate. not sure I follow why.21:09
dendrobateswe can discuss this in detail on the ml21:10
dendrobatesmoving on.21:10
vishy_anotherjesregarding pending reviews: we will do a review session tonight.21:10
annegentle_I'd like more info too, how are a project's release packaged out of Launchpad? (Might not have the right terms.)21:10
dendrobatesthx21:10
alekibangoannegentle_: thats work of package maintainters -differs for every distro21:10
sorenIf a distro chooses to ship a particular version, I'd be happy to support them in maintaining a stable branch of that version, but I don't think we should spend ressources on it ourselves.21:10
dendrobateswe will release tarballs, and we maintain the ubuntu packages.21:10
dendrobatesmoving on!21:11
sorenSure.21:11
dendrobatesI understand that we need to discuss this, but I want to move it to the ml21:11
jaypipesno worries21:11
sorenSure, sure. Mailing list it is.21:11
dendrobatesIt would be very helpful to me, if everyone that had a blueprint targeted for austin that did not make feature freeze would go into launchpad and mark them deferred.21:11
dendrobatesYou know who you are.  There are many.21:11
alekibangohttps://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/austin21:12
dendrobatesI was not built to be a release manager and it is starting to get the bet of me.21:12
dendrobates#link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/austin21:12
dendrobates#link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/swift/austin21:12
johnpurhow do we handle cases where the blueprints are not getting updated?21:12
johnpurdendro taking care of?21:13
dendrobatesI will have to do it.21:13
jaypipesdendrobates: what about https://launchpad.net/nova/+milestone/austin-feature-freeze?21:13
johnpurthx21:13
* jaypipes can also do it.21:13
* jaypipes been nagging folks on bugs mostly.21:13
dendrobatesbut we need a real release manager, because I am not efficient at this stuff21:13
dendrobatesand it keeps me from my real duties21:13
dendrobatesThe same goes for those that made it.  you should be updating them yourselves.21:13
johnpurwill we be consistent by Friday (15th) on the view of what is in and out?21:14
dendrobatesblueprints that is21:14
dendrobatesjohnpur: barring any major issues yes21:14
johnpurgreat21:14
dendrobatesAny non-bugfix patches must be merged by 21:00 UTC on Thursday or it will not make the Austin release.21:14
jaypipesk21:15
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dendrobatesas said before: There are currently some merges with conflicts please check your merges and fix as necessary.21:15
jbryce#info All non-bugfix patches must be merged by 21:00 UTC 2010-10-14 to be in Austin21:15
dendrobatesDoes anyone have any updates they want/need to talk about?21:15
dendrobates#info Final Freeze is October 19th 21:00 UTC21:15
dendrobatesif you find issues please create a bug report21:16
dendrobates#link https://bugs.launchpad.net/nova/+filebug21:16
dendrobatesAll developers need to be checking and updating bugs.21:16
dendrobatesI will be creating a list of release critical bugs21:16
dendrobatesSo, I will be reviewing bugs frequently and chasing you down for status.21:16
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jaypipesdendrobates: I believe https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/+spec/austin-image-service will be done by Thursday. That includes https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/+spec/austin-integrate-glance21:16
pvoawesome21:17
dendrobatesjaypipes: awesome21:17
dendrobatesI've seen all the merges.21:17
johnpurjaypipes: +121:17
jaypipesdendrobates: I got the register-image API done today and everything else is falling into place.21:17
dendrobatesgreat work jaypipes and sirp21:17
jaypipesdendrobates, soren: this is the one I'm really wondering about: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/+spec/austin-xenapi21:18
dendrobatesI owe both of you beers at the summit21:18
jaypipesty21:18
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dendrobatesisn't that sorens21:18
sorenI sure hope not.21:18
dendrobateslooking21:18
sorenphew21:18
pvoI thought it was Ewan's?21:18
jaypipesdendrobates: that's the thing...I'm not sure. soren was working on something about virt tests.21:18
sorenIt's not. It's ewanmellor's.21:18
dendrobatesit is,21:18
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johnpurhas someone talked to Ewan?21:19
alekibangohe is here21:19
dendrobatesI think he is with us21:19
ewanmelloraustin-xenapi is mine21:19
dendrobatesjaypipes: what are your concerns?21:19
jaypipessoren, dendrobates: wondering what the status is and how it is different from the (yet unmerged) https://code.launchpad.net/~soren/nova/xen/+merge/3801121:19
jaypipesdendrobates: less concerned than curious21:20
ewanmellorjaypipes: you should read my blueprint ;-)21:20
sorenjaypipes: Mine uses libvirt's Xen support. ewanmellor's uses that other thing :)21:20
dendrobatessorens work is to support opensource xen using libvit.21:20
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ewanmelloraustin-xen is for Xen platforms using the xend toolstack, and libvirt21:20
jaypipesewanmellor: crap, I suppose I should! :)21:20
dendrobatesewanmellor's is for xenserver via the xenapi21:21
ewanmelloraustin-xenapi is for Xen Cloud Platform, using the xenapi toolstack and no libvirt21:21
jaypipesewanmellor: nice spec.  where do we stand on this as far as Thursday deadline?21:21
ewanmellorWhat's in is in.21:21
jaypipesewanmellor: OK, so no new code then?  Can you mark the blueprint Beta Available then?21:21
ewanmellorIt's not really what I would claim is complete: it's missing Glance support, for example.21:21
jaypipesewanmellor: OK, annegentle_ please note in the Release Notes the ^^21:22
ewanmellorBut it's what's going to be done for Austin.  There will obviously be a second rev for Bexar21:22
dendrobatesewanmellor: will xen help testing xenserver support?21:22
annegentle_jaypipes: you got it21:22
jaypipesannegentle_: cheers.21:22
sorenjaypipes: I'd like to briefly talk about austin-image-service and austin-integrate-glance... Are you saying glance will land in Austin anyway?21:22
gundlachjaypipes: sorry, i had to step away; but be aware that if you implement Glance, we're back on redis unless someone converts the RackspaceIdTranslator (which is currently not being used anywhere because LocalImageService uses integer ids.)21:22
ewanmellordendrobates: definitely we will help with testing.  We are setting up a team for regression testing of OpenStack/XenAPI.21:22
jaypipesdendrobates: mtaylor and myself would like to work with ewanmellor at the summit to link in Xen testing into Hudson/Tarmac. BADLY needed21:22
jaypipesgundlach: I'll handle that. talk to me offline about it. :)21:23
vishy_anotherjesjaypipes: we want to add a few xen boxes to our staging cluster21:23
gundlachjaypipes: k21:23
vishy_anotherjeswe should have a xen session (maybe one per hypervisor?)21:23
jaypipesvishy_anotherjes: cool, we can link em into Hudson.21:23
vishy_anotherjesinternet is dieing - be back in a few minutes21:23
ewanmellorjaypipes: Agree entirely.  I'll make sure we discuss testing in detail in San Antonio.21:23
jaypipes++21:24
dendrobateswe need to document the level of functionality that xenapi will have in Austin21:24
sorenA matrix!21:24
dendrobatestake the blue pill21:24
dendrobatesoh "a" matrix21:25
dendrobatesany other updates?21:25
annegentle_soren: a big ol' table21:25
ewanmellordendrobates: It's very basic.  No nwfilter, no glance, for example.  I'm happy to write that up.21:25
* soren is all about the tables21:25
ewanmellorI plan to catch up with those new features for bexar.21:26
dendrobatesthat would be great.  Do it on the wiki or send it to annegentle_21:26
dendrobatesany other updates?21:26
jbryce#action ewanmellor and annegentle_ to document functionality of xenapi in Austin21:26
pvojaypipes: ewanmellor: I'd like to be in on the testing21:26
jaypipespvo: absolutely.21:26
jaypipespvo: summit discussions :)21:26
pvoyep yep21:26
dendrobateslast chance?21:26
dendrobates#topic openstack objectstore (swift) status21:27
dendrobatesI assume you guys are set for the release21:27
creihteverything is good21:27
dendrobatesbut I 've seen a lot of merge activity today21:27
creihtwe still have a couple of bugs to fix21:27
dendrobatesare there any release critical issues that we need to track?21:27
notmynamecreiht: what about the updated auditors? critical or not?21:28
creihtthere is one bug that we probably need to get in21:28
creihtthat I had lost track of because someone volunteered to do it, but we never heard anything21:28
creihtnotmyname: they can probably stay as is for right now, and fix post release21:29
jbryceis there a list of new features that are in swift since there are no blueprints for it?21:29
creihtunless we have a good fix before thurs21:29
*** spy sets mode: +o openstack21:29
creihtjbryce: no21:29
dendrobatescreiht: can one of you create a list?21:29
creihtI've been a little busy tracking a different issue down today21:29
jbryceis there someone annegentle_ can bug to put that together for release notes?21:29
creihtdendrobates: is there one for nova that I can look at as an exmple?21:30
alekibangoand for wikipages...21:30
dendrobatesow21:30
creiht:)21:30
alekibangocreiht: yes i wrote one minutes ago21:30
creihtyeah we can work on that21:30
alekibangohttp://wiki.openstack.org/OpenStackComputeFeatures21:30
alekibangojust started :) please help21:30
annegentle_creiht: should be as simple as a phone call or edits to http://wiki.openstack.org/ReleaseNotes/Austin21:30
creihtk21:31
dendrobates#topic Openstack Compute (Nova) Documentation21:31
*** openstack changes topic to "Openstack Compute (Nova) Documentation"21:31
dendrobatesannegentle_and alekibango ?21:31
alekibangook, where we are and what we need21:31
jaypipesannegentle_: any input on the priorities I listed for Nova documentation on the ML?21:31
alekibangoWe are on the starting line, we have the track laid down. What we need to do is to sprint to the finish and make it a victory.21:32
alekibangoI think we should plan some (maybe even regular) sprint session(s) to move the documentation forward to the goal, as good documentation is required to increase adoption rate.21:32
annegentle_jaypipes: I liked the priorities and thanked the wrong Jay in person :) Sorry about that.21:32
annegentle_Basically, for Austin, we will have release notes and 2 install pages, both for developers.21:32
annegentle_for Bexar, we will run a doc sprint at the summit to fill out the Nova doc more completely.21:33
alekibangowe have basic structure for Enduser manual, Admin manual, and Deployment manual21:33
jaypipesannegentle_: no worries :)21:33
alekibangostill no real content - as people have no time or confidence to create content21:33
dendrobatesalekibango: are you coming to the summit>21:33
alekibangoi would like to ask you all for help21:33
alekibangono i will not21:33
annegentle_Fully aware that doc increases adoption but Nova is still for the free and brave :)21:33
alekibangoi am in EU21:34
jaypipesalekibango, annegentle_: I think a sprint at the summit for docs would be great.21:34
jaypipesalekibango: you could participate online.21:34
annegentle_alekibango: we can collaborate across the pond, I'd love that.21:34
alekibangoi will be online21:34
pvowith Etherpad it might work well on some of the real time doc collaborations21:34
jbryce#info Documentation sprint at November design summit21:34
alekibangoi hope (streaming?) videos and docs will be available21:35
dendrobatesannegentle_: that is a good activity for Thursday and Friday21:35
alekibangoannegentle_: mumble (voip conferencing) is also great21:35
annegentle_alekibango: they are planning to record, can't promise streaming21:35
spectorclanWe are video taping the event for business tracks; had not planned to videotape developer tracks; should I reconsider?21:35
alekibangoplease do i would watch every video 2 times21:36
alekibango:)21:36
annegentle_dendrobates: yep, the Agenda should reflect that by tomorrow I hope21:36
spectorclanstreaming is being investigated right now21:36
dendrobatesok done with documentation?21:37
alekibangoyes for me21:37
annegentle_I do have a doc opinion question - are screenshots of Terminals ok or lame?21:37
alekibangook :)21:37
annegentle_I got Nova running today and wondered if screenshots of the steps would be helpful21:37
pvoannegentle_: I think something you can cut and paste, if possible21:37
alekibangopvo: that will remove nice colors :)21:37
annegentle_yeah definitely text-based is good for copy/paste, agreed21:37
dendrobatesI think they are unnecessary21:37
ewanmellorAgreed: being able to cut-and-paste the text is good.21:37
pvoas I image thats what alot of people will do21:38
pvoimage/imagine21:38
alekibangoannegentle_: most people want to cut and paste commands21:38
alekibangoif there is not text to copy - screnshots are ok21:38
dendrobatesI vote we serve all docs as encrypted pdf's  :)21:38
alekibangoimho21:38
annegentle_ok, yup. just wondered if a visual for "this is what it will look like (sorta)" would help.21:38
annegentle_dendrobates: LOL21:39
dendrobatesannegentle_: we can represent that in ascii21:39
alekibangoannegentle_: video might be nice - but along with the text21:39
jbrycei think the text of the output/response can accomplish that21:39
annegentle_okay. I can do video as well I believe21:39
annegentle_okay, text is the winner!21:39
annegentle_thanks all.21:39
alekibangoyes, text is best21:39
dendrobatesok last topic21:39
dendrobates#topic Bexar summit planning21:40
*** openstack changes topic to "Bexar summit planning"21:40
dendrobatesI want to quickly mention that I will be making a call for blueprints that we will use to create the summit sessions immediately after the release.  I don't want to distract and of the devs now, but the community at large needs to be thinking about what features they want to propose for the next 2 releases.21:40
alekibangoi will have some ideas about scheduler21:40
alekibangowill try to write it down -- in blueprints?21:40
dendrobatesthx21:41
jbryce#info Blueprints will be basis of design summit sessions. Propose for next 2 releases (next 6 months)21:41
dendrobatesI don't want it to be a distraction yet, but it is good to keep it in the back of your mind21:41
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dendrobatesany other business before we quit?21:42
sorenUm.21:42
sorenI don't think I got an answer to this:21:42
dendrobates#topic other business21:42
*** openstack changes topic to "other business"21:42
alekibangogood luck with merges, everyone! :)21:42
spectorclanFYI - Design Summit has 56 registrants; be sure to register yourself today http://openstack.org/register21:42
soren21:22 < soren> jaypipes: I'd like to briefly talk about austin-image-service and austin-integrate-glance... Are you saying glance will land in Austin  anyway?21:42
alekibangoi would like to see it there...21:43
dendrobatessoren: I want it to land if it can.21:43
sorenHm.21:43
sorenOk.21:43
dendrobatessoren: in some form at least21:43
dendrobateswe can discuss it21:44
gundlachdendrobates: is this a FF-exception by writ of BDFL, or did we have a vote about making an exception, or what?21:44
gundlachsoren: i imagine you're "hm"ing because you recall having to specifically ask permission to sneak your mergeprop past featurefreeze?21:44
jaypipessoren: well, I'm going to try, yes21:44
dendrobatesit is marked as an essential feature21:44
sorengundlach: Not really.21:44
jaypipessoren: at least a basic version.21:44
gundlachdendrobates: ah, ok, didn't know what that label implied.21:44
jaypipessoren: unless there is objection, of course...21:44
dendrobateswhich means that we would consider pushing dates if it does not make it.21:45
sorenI'm just a bit concerned about changing the architecture at this point.21:45
dendrobatesI think we might be talking across each other21:45
dendrobatesI would love for glance to be feature complete21:45
dendrobatesbut how much integration there will be, is up for debate.21:45
sorenMaybe I just don't understand Glance well enough, and maybe I don't understand the wonderful benefits it will bring that makes it worth the risk :)21:46
alekibangoeven if i loved it, i think now stability is imporant more.  Austin release is only a start - next release will be the real game21:46
sorenMaybe it's not as intrusive as I imagine it will be.21:46
jaypipessoren: there is nothing about the Glance work that would interfere with Nova.  It is a feature that is entirely isolated and can be viewed as experimental module.21:46
* soren will look at the code when it turns up.21:46
sorenjaypipes: Oh, ok.21:46
jaypipessoren: the code is already in there.21:46
sorenjaypipes: In where?21:46
jaypipessoren: /nova/image/service.py21:46
sorenO_o21:47
jaypipessoren: that is where the Glance integration is occurring, and you can see in there that a simple flag turns the integration off.21:47
* soren must have been sleeping at some point.21:47
johnpurjaypipes: it is optional, right?21:47
jaypipesjohnpur: entirely.21:47
johnpurlittle risk then21:47
jaypipesjohnpur: the default behaviour is to use a LocalImageService.21:47
sorenOk, that makes me happy.21:48
alekibango:)21:48
dendrobatesjohnpur: we are all just pampering soren during his fit21:48
pvoI like happy sorens21:48
jaypipessoren: glad to step you through it offline... you've been in merge hell, I understand :)21:48
dendrobateseverything is fine21:48
johnpurwe all want soren to be happy!21:48
sorenOne of my concerns was that I'm intending to get the final release into Ubuntu Maverick, and adding entirely new components is.. well, not the sort of thing that is taken lightly in stable release updates.21:48
soren:)21:49
jaypipessoren: understood.21:49
dendrobatesHe works best when mistreated21:49
jbrycedendrobates: one last question about the release artifacts. can you get annegentle_ the link to the austin tarball?21:49
dendrobatesyes.21:49
sorenjaypipes: ...but apprantly, I can just pretend it never happened and not enable it.21:49
sorenjaypipes: So yay :)21:49
jaypipessoren: yup.21:49
jbrycedendrobates: thanks!21:49
sorendendrobates: Don't tell them that :)21:49
alekibangololz21:49
dendrobatesok, anything else?21:49
alekibangolooks like happy ending21:49
dendrobateslast chance21:49
dendrobateswe all need to get back to work.21:50
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dendrobates#endmeeting21:50
*** openstack changes topic to " Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack-meeting/2010/"21:50
openstackMeeting ended Tue Oct 12 21:50:28 2010 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)21:50
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack-meeting/2010/openstack-meeting.2010-10-12-21.02.html21:50
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack-meeting/2010/openstack-meeting.2010-10-12-21.02.txt21:50
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack-meeting/2010/openstack-meeting.2010-10-12-21.02.log.html21:50
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*** spy changes topic to "Openstack Meetings: http://wiki.openstack.org/Meetings | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack-meeting/2010/"21:51
jaypipesalrighty, my Pug is dancing around because it's dinnertime...21:51
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gundlachjaypipes: email me about redis -- michael.gundlach@rackspace.com :)21:51
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gundlach[taking lower priority than dinner, of course!]21:52
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