21:02:30 <dendrobates> #startmeeting
21:02:31 <openstack> Meeting started Tue Oct 12 21:02:30 2010 UTC.  The chair is dendrobates. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
21:02:32 <openstack> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
21:02:47 <dendrobates> Welcome everyone
21:02:48 <soren> o/
21:02:50 * jaypipes welcomes back dendrobates as meeting leader. long live dendrobates.
21:02:57 <soren> Our fearless leader!
21:03:04 <dendrobates> I am going to try to keep this very short, since we are all working so hard to get the release out.
21:03:12 <dendrobates> but I will probably fail
21:03:17 <dendrobates> As always the agenda is on the wiki:
21:03:22 <dendrobates> #link http://wiki.openstack.org/Meetings
21:03:28 <dendrobates> The minutes will be posted here:
21:03:35 <dendrobates> #link http://wiki.openstack.org/MeetingLogs
21:03:44 <alekibango> please add link to http://wiki.openstack.org/Meetings  to the topic (only admins can)
21:04:07 <dendrobates> before we start does anyone have any agenda items?
21:04:32 <jaypipes> dendrobates: I'd like a raise.
21:04:40 <dendrobates> I want to thank alekibango for adding an agenda item on the wiki
21:04:44 <dendrobates> jaypipes: ha
21:04:45 <alekibango> :)
21:04:48 <soren> I'd like two.
21:05:12 <dendrobates> #topic release status
21:05:28 <dendrobates> We are now 10 days from the release and we really need to get all remaining merges finished.
21:05:37 <dendrobates> #link https://code.launchpad.net/nova/+activereviews
21:05:57 <dendrobates> #link https://code.launchpad.net/swift/+activereviews
21:06:06 <jaypipes> dendrobates: there's a number of those that are in the "having heard back from the contributor" stage. :(
21:06:43 <dendrobates> I will be personally contacting all those people
21:06:47 <vishy_anotherjes> dendrobates: what is the dot release strategy for this release?  Right now we are trying to work through edge cases that occur when you run thousands of instances with high concurrency
21:06:48 <jaypipes> dendrobates: s/having/haven't
21:07:20 <jaypipes> vishy_anotherjes: do you propose a strategy?
21:07:28 <dendrobates> we do not plan on dot releases for the first 2 3month releases
21:07:55 <dendrobates> there might be patches, but not a  dot release
21:08:10 <dendrobates> since we are releasing so quickly in succession
21:08:24 <vishy_anotherjes> maybe it isn't important then
21:09:04 <dendrobates> it will quickly become difficult to provide backports for fixes.
21:09:08 <jaypipes> dendrobates: release == package?  if so, I would advise for having some standardized (dot) version.
21:09:33 <soren> I don't think, generally, we'd want to do dot releases.
21:09:33 <dendrobates> release != package
21:09:55 <jaypipes> soren, dendrobates: pls elaborate. not sure I follow why.
21:10:02 <dendrobates> we can discuss this in detail on the ml
21:10:12 <dendrobates> moving on.
21:10:13 <vishy_anotherjes> regarding pending reviews: we will do a review session tonight.
21:10:18 <annegentle_> I'd like more info too, how are a project's release packaged out of Launchpad? (Might not have the right terms.)
21:10:20 <dendrobates> thx
21:10:46 <alekibango> annegentle_: thats work of package maintainters -differs for every distro
21:10:49 <soren> If a distro chooses to ship a particular version, I'd be happy to support them in maintaining a stable branch of that version, but I don't think we should spend ressources on it ourselves.
21:10:55 <dendrobates> we will release tarballs, and we maintain the ubuntu packages.
21:11:05 <dendrobates> moving on!
21:11:10 <soren> Sure.
21:11:27 <dendrobates> I understand that we need to discuss this, but I want to move it to the ml
21:11:32 <jaypipes> no worries
21:11:34 <soren> Sure, sure. Mailing list it is.
21:11:43 <dendrobates> It would be very helpful to me, if everyone that had a blueprint targeted for austin that did not make feature freeze would go into launchpad and mark them deferred.
21:11:49 <dendrobates> You know who you are.  There are many.
21:12:18 <alekibango> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/austin
21:12:22 <dendrobates> I was not built to be a release manager and it is starting to get the bet of me.
21:12:38 <dendrobates> #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/austin
21:12:45 <dendrobates> #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/swift/austin
21:12:51 <johnpur> how do we handle cases where the blueprints are not getting updated?
21:13:01 <johnpur> dendro taking care of?
21:13:04 <dendrobates> I will have to do it.
21:13:04 <jaypipes> dendrobates: what about https://launchpad.net/nova/+milestone/austin-feature-freeze?
21:13:09 <johnpur> thx
21:13:18 * jaypipes can also do it.
21:13:30 * jaypipes been nagging folks on bugs mostly.
21:13:38 <dendrobates> but we need a real release manager, because I am not efficient at this stuff
21:13:48 <dendrobates> and it keeps me from my real duties
21:13:56 <dendrobates> The same goes for those that made it.  you should be updating them yourselves.
21:14:02 <johnpur> will we be consistent by Friday (15th) on the view of what is in and out?
21:14:04 <dendrobates> blueprints that is
21:14:24 <dendrobates> johnpur: barring any major issues yes
21:14:32 <johnpur> great
21:14:50 <dendrobates> Any non-bugfix patches must be merged by 21:00 UTC on Thursday or it will not make the Austin release.
21:15:02 <jaypipes> k
21:15:21 <dendrobates> as said before: There are currently some merges with conflicts please check your merges and fix as necessary.
21:15:39 <jbryce> #info All non-bugfix patches must be merged by 21:00 UTC 2010-10-14 to be in Austin
21:15:44 <dendrobates> Does anyone have any updates they want/need to talk about?
21:15:50 <dendrobates> #info Final Freeze is October 19th 21:00 UTC
21:16:06 <dendrobates> if you find issues please create a bug report
21:16:10 <dendrobates> #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/nova/+filebug
21:16:15 <dendrobates> All developers need to be checking and updating bugs.
21:16:36 <dendrobates> I will be creating a list of release critical bugs
21:16:49 <dendrobates> So, I will be reviewing bugs frequently and chasing you down for status.
21:16:56 <jaypipes> dendrobates: I believe https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/+spec/austin-image-service will be done by Thursday. That includes https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/+spec/austin-integrate-glance
21:17:08 <pvo> awesome
21:17:11 <dendrobates> jaypipes: awesome
21:17:17 <dendrobates> I've seen all the merges.
21:17:22 <johnpur> jaypipes: +1
21:17:24 <jaypipes> dendrobates: I got the register-image API done today and everything else is falling into place.
21:17:47 <dendrobates> great work jaypipes and sirp
21:18:07 <jaypipes> dendrobates, soren: this is the one I'm really wondering about: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/+spec/austin-xenapi
21:18:12 <dendrobates> I owe both of you beers at the summit
21:18:12 <jaypipes> ty
21:18:24 <dendrobates> isn't that sorens
21:18:37 <soren> I sure hope not.
21:18:41 <dendrobates> looking
21:18:42 <soren> phew
21:18:45 <pvo> I thought it was Ewan's?
21:18:46 <jaypipes> dendrobates: that's the thing...I'm not sure. soren was working on something about virt tests.
21:18:47 <soren> It's not. It's ewanmellor's.
21:18:51 <dendrobates> it is,
21:19:03 <johnpur> has someone talked to Ewan?
21:19:08 <alekibango> he is here
21:19:11 <dendrobates> I think he is with us
21:19:18 <ewanmellor> austin-xenapi is mine
21:19:30 <dendrobates> jaypipes: what are your concerns?
21:19:53 <jaypipes> soren, dendrobates: wondering what the status is and how it is different from the (yet unmerged) https://code.launchpad.net/~soren/nova/xen/+merge/38011
21:20:14 <jaypipes> dendrobates: less concerned than curious
21:20:16 <ewanmellor> jaypipes: you should read my blueprint ;-)
21:20:40 <soren> jaypipes: Mine uses libvirt's Xen support. ewanmellor's uses that other thing :)
21:20:40 <dendrobates> sorens work is to support opensource xen using libvit.
21:20:47 <ewanmellor> austin-xen is for Xen platforms using the xend toolstack, and libvirt
21:20:47 <jaypipes> ewanmellor: crap, I suppose I should! :)
21:21:01 <dendrobates> ewanmellor's is for xenserver via the xenapi
21:21:03 <ewanmellor> austin-xenapi is for Xen Cloud Platform, using the xenapi toolstack and no libvirt
21:21:07 <jaypipes> ewanmellor: nice spec.  where do we stand on this as far as Thursday deadline?
21:21:15 <ewanmellor> What's in is in.
21:21:36 <jaypipes> ewanmellor: OK, so no new code then?  Can you mark the blueprint Beta Available then?
21:21:42 <ewanmellor> It's not really what I would claim is complete: it's missing Glance support, for example.
21:22:03 <jaypipes> ewanmellor: OK, annegentle_ please note in the Release Notes the ^^
21:22:07 <ewanmellor> But it's what's going to be done for Austin.  There will obviously be a second rev for Bexar
21:22:08 <dendrobates> ewanmellor: will xen help testing xenserver support?
21:22:16 <annegentle_> jaypipes: you got it
21:22:21 <jaypipes> annegentle_: cheers.
21:22:34 <soren> jaypipes: I'd like to briefly talk about austin-image-service and austin-integrate-glance... Are you saying glance will land in Austin anyway?
21:22:41 <gundlach> jaypipes: sorry, i had to step away; but be aware that if you implement Glance, we're back on redis unless someone converts the RackspaceIdTranslator (which is currently not being used anywhere because LocalImageService uses integer ids.)
21:22:44 <ewanmellor> dendrobates: definitely we will help with testing.  We are setting up a team for regression testing of OpenStack/XenAPI.
21:22:46 <jaypipes> dendrobates: mtaylor and myself would like to work with ewanmellor at the summit to link in Xen testing into Hudson/Tarmac. BADLY needed
21:23:10 <jaypipes> gundlach: I'll handle that. talk to me offline about it. :)
21:23:13 <vishy_anotherjes> jaypipes: we want to add a few xen boxes to our staging cluster
21:23:14 <gundlach> jaypipes: k
21:23:28 <vishy_anotherjes> we should have a xen session (maybe one per hypervisor?)
21:23:32 <jaypipes> vishy_anotherjes: cool, we can link em into Hudson.
21:23:48 <vishy_anotherjes> internet is dieing - be back in a few minutes
21:23:49 <ewanmellor> jaypipes: Agree entirely.  I'll make sure we discuss testing in detail in San Antonio.
21:24:09 <jaypipes> ++
21:24:22 <dendrobates> we need to document the level of functionality that xenapi will have in Austin
21:24:42 <soren> A matrix!
21:24:55 <dendrobates> take the blue pill
21:25:03 <dendrobates> oh "a" matrix
21:25:20 <dendrobates> any other updates?
21:25:22 <annegentle_> soren: a big ol' table
21:25:29 <ewanmellor> dendrobates: It's very basic.  No nwfilter, no glance, for example.  I'm happy to write that up.
21:25:57 * soren is all about the tables
21:26:02 <ewanmellor> I plan to catch up with those new features for bexar.
21:26:07 <dendrobates> that would be great.  Do it on the wiki or send it to annegentle_
21:26:26 <dendrobates> any other updates?
21:26:29 <jbryce> #action ewanmellor and annegentle_ to document functionality of xenapi in Austin
21:26:34 <pvo> jaypipes: ewanmellor: I'd like to be in on the testing
21:26:42 <jaypipes> pvo: absolutely.
21:26:48 <jaypipes> pvo: summit discussions :)
21:26:53 <pvo> yep yep
21:26:56 <dendrobates> last chance?
21:27:15 <dendrobates> #topic openstack objectstore (swift) status
21:27:27 <dendrobates> I assume you guys are set for the release
21:27:29 <creiht> everything is good
21:27:38 <dendrobates> but I 've seen a lot of merge activity today
21:27:40 <creiht> we still have a couple of bugs to fix
21:27:50 <dendrobates> are there any release critical issues that we need to track?
21:28:24 <notmyname> creiht: what about the updated auditors? critical or not?
21:28:25 <creiht> there is one bug that we probably need to get in
21:28:54 <creiht> that I had lost track of because someone volunteered to do it, but we never heard anything
21:29:07 <creiht> notmyname: they can probably stay as is for right now, and fix post release
21:29:09 <jbryce> is there a list of new features that are in swift since there are no blueprints for it?
21:29:12 <creiht> unless we have a good fix before thurs
21:29:27 <creiht> jbryce: no
21:29:43 <dendrobates> creiht: can one of you create a list?
21:29:44 <creiht> I've been a little busy tracking a different issue down today
21:29:58 <jbryce> is there someone annegentle_ can bug to put that together for release notes?
21:30:05 <creiht> dendrobates: is there one for nova that I can look at as an exmple?
21:30:12 <alekibango> and for wikipages...
21:30:13 <dendrobates> ow
21:30:16 <creiht> :)
21:30:23 <alekibango> creiht: yes i wrote one minutes ago
21:30:24 <creiht> yeah we can work on that
21:30:38 <alekibango> http://wiki.openstack.org/OpenStackComputeFeatures
21:30:51 <alekibango> just started :) please help
21:30:51 <annegentle_> creiht: should be as simple as a phone call or edits to http://wiki.openstack.org/ReleaseNotes/Austin
21:31:07 <creiht> k
21:31:25 <dendrobates> #topic Openstack Compute (Nova) Documentation
21:31:42 <dendrobates> annegentle_and alekibango ?
21:31:54 <alekibango> ok, where we are and what we need
21:31:58 <jaypipes> annegentle_: any input on the priorities I listed for Nova documentation on the ML?
21:32:05 <alekibango> We are on the starting line, we have the track laid down. What we need to do is to sprint to the finish and make it a victory.
21:32:10 <alekibango> I think we should plan some (maybe even regular) sprint session(s) to move the documentation forward to the goal, as good documentation is required to increase adoption rate.
21:32:27 <annegentle_> jaypipes: I liked the priorities and thanked the wrong Jay in person :) Sorry about that.
21:32:56 <annegentle_> Basically, for Austin, we will have release notes and 2 install pages, both for developers.
21:33:11 <annegentle_> for Bexar, we will run a doc sprint at the summit to fill out the Nova doc more completely.
21:33:17 <alekibango> we have basic structure for Enduser manual, Admin manual, and Deployment manual
21:33:19 <jaypipes> annegentle_: no worries :)
21:33:40 <alekibango> still no real content - as people have no time or confidence to create content
21:33:49 <dendrobates> alekibango: are you coming to the summit>
21:33:50 <alekibango> i would like to ask you all for help
21:33:54 <alekibango> no i will not
21:33:56 <annegentle_> Fully aware that doc increases adoption but Nova is still for the free and brave :)
21:34:04 <alekibango> i am in EU
21:34:04 <jaypipes> alekibango, annegentle_: I think a sprint at the summit for docs would be great.
21:34:17 <jaypipes> alekibango: you could participate online.
21:34:29 <annegentle_> alekibango: we can collaborate across the pond, I'd love that.
21:34:41 <alekibango> i will be online
21:34:41 <pvo> with Etherpad it might work well on some of the real time doc collaborations
21:34:55 <jbryce> #info Documentation sprint at November design summit
21:35:12 <alekibango> i hope (streaming?) videos and docs will be available
21:35:37 <dendrobates> annegentle_: that is a good activity for Thursday and Friday
21:35:38 <alekibango> annegentle_: mumble (voip conferencing) is also great
21:35:43 <annegentle_> alekibango: they are planning to record, can't promise streaming
21:35:51 <spectorclan> We are video taping the event for business tracks; had not planned to videotape developer tracks; should I reconsider?
21:36:04 <alekibango> please do i would watch every video 2 times
21:36:06 <alekibango> :)
21:36:10 <annegentle_> dendrobates: yep, the Agenda should reflect that by tomorrow I hope
21:36:10 <spectorclan> streaming is being investigated right now
21:37:06 <dendrobates> ok done with documentation?
21:37:10 <alekibango> yes for me
21:37:14 <annegentle_> I do have a doc opinion question - are screenshots of Terminals ok or lame?
21:37:31 <alekibango> ok :)
21:37:34 <annegentle_> I got Nova running today and wondered if screenshots of the steps would be helpful
21:37:36 <pvo> annegentle_: I think something you can cut and paste, if possible
21:37:54 <alekibango> pvo: that will remove nice colors :)
21:37:56 <annegentle_> yeah definitely text-based is good for copy/paste, agreed
21:37:57 <dendrobates> I think they are unnecessary
21:37:59 <ewanmellor> Agreed: being able to cut-and-paste the text is good.
21:38:03 <pvo> as I image thats what alot of people will do
21:38:13 <pvo> image/imagine
21:38:22 <alekibango> annegentle_: most people want to cut and paste commands
21:38:39 <alekibango> if there is not text to copy - screnshots are ok
21:38:40 <dendrobates> I vote we serve all docs as encrypted pdf's  :)
21:38:41 <alekibango> imho
21:38:48 <annegentle_> ok, yup. just wondered if a visual for "this is what it will look like (sorta)" would help.
21:39:00 <annegentle_> dendrobates: LOL
21:39:06 <dendrobates> annegentle_: we can represent that in ascii
21:39:07 <alekibango> annegentle_: video might be nice - but along with the text
21:39:25 <jbryce> i think the text of the output/response can accomplish that
21:39:31 <annegentle_> okay. I can do video as well I believe
21:39:35 <annegentle_> okay, text is the winner!
21:39:40 <annegentle_> thanks all.
21:39:42 <alekibango> yes, text is best
21:39:56 <dendrobates> ok last topic
21:40:00 <dendrobates> #topic Bexar summit planning
21:40:09 <dendrobates> I want to quickly mention that I will be making a call for blueprints that we will use to create the summit sessions immediately after the release.  I don't want to distract and of the devs now, but the community at large needs to be thinking about what features they want to propose for the next 2 releases.
21:40:43 <alekibango> i will have some ideas about scheduler
21:40:56 <alekibango> will try to write it down -- in blueprints?
21:41:06 <dendrobates> thx
21:41:23 <jbryce> #info Blueprints will be basis of design summit sessions. Propose for next 2 releases (next 6 months)
21:41:31 <dendrobates> I don't want it to be a distraction yet, but it is good to keep it in the back of your mind
21:42:07 <dendrobates> any other business before we quit?
21:42:15 <soren> Um.
21:42:21 <soren> I don't think I got an answer to this:
21:42:22 <dendrobates> #topic other business
21:42:23 <alekibango> good luck with merges, everyone! :)
21:42:35 <spectorclan> FYI - Design Summit has 56 registrants; be sure to register yourself today http://openstack.org/register
21:42:43 <soren> 21:22 < soren> jaypipes: I'd like to briefly talk about austin-image-service and austin-integrate-glance... Are you saying glance will land in Austin  anyway?
21:43:10 <alekibango> i would like to see it there...
21:43:27 <dendrobates> soren: I want it to land if it can.
21:43:33 <soren> Hm.
21:43:35 <soren> Ok.
21:43:58 <dendrobates> soren: in some form at least
21:44:07 <dendrobates> we can discuss it
21:44:15 <gundlach> dendrobates: is this a FF-exception by writ of BDFL, or did we have a vote about making an exception, or what?
21:44:31 <gundlach> soren: i imagine you're "hm"ing because you recall having to specifically ask permission to sneak your mergeprop past featurefreeze?
21:44:36 <jaypipes> soren: well, I'm going to try, yes
21:44:41 <dendrobates> it is marked as an essential feature
21:44:44 <soren> gundlach: Not really.
21:44:45 <jaypipes> soren: at least a basic version.
21:44:53 <gundlach> dendrobates: ah, ok, didn't know what that label implied.
21:44:57 <jaypipes> soren: unless there is objection, of course...
21:45:01 <dendrobates> which means that we would consider pushing dates if it does not make it.
21:45:02 <soren> I'm just a bit concerned about changing the architecture at this point.
21:45:22 <dendrobates> I think we might be talking across each other
21:45:36 <dendrobates> I would love for glance to be feature complete
21:45:58 <dendrobates> but how much integration there will be, is up for debate.
21:46:04 <soren> Maybe I just don't understand Glance well enough, and maybe I don't understand the wonderful benefits it will bring that makes it worth the risk :)
21:46:23 <alekibango> even if i loved it, i think now stability is imporant more.  Austin release is only a start - next release will be the real game
21:46:33 <soren> Maybe it's not as intrusive as I imagine it will be.
21:46:38 <jaypipes> soren: there is nothing about the Glance work that would interfere with Nova.  It is a feature that is entirely isolated and can be viewed as experimental module.
21:46:40 * soren will look at the code when it turns up.
21:46:49 <soren> jaypipes: Oh, ok.
21:46:51 <jaypipes> soren: the code is already in there.
21:46:58 <soren> jaypipes: In where?
21:46:58 <jaypipes> soren: /nova/image/service.py
21:47:25 <soren> O_o
21:47:30 <jaypipes> soren: that is where the Glance integration is occurring, and you can see in there that a simple flag turns the integration off.
21:47:31 * soren must have been sleeping at some point.
21:47:39 <johnpur> jaypipes: it is optional, right?
21:47:46 <jaypipes> johnpur: entirely.
21:47:56 <johnpur> little risk then
21:47:58 <jaypipes> johnpur: the default behaviour is to use a LocalImageService.
21:48:03 <soren> Ok, that makes me happy.
21:48:26 <alekibango> :)
21:48:33 <dendrobates> johnpur: we are all just pampering soren during his fit
21:48:40 <pvo> I like happy sorens
21:48:40 <jaypipes> soren: glad to step you through it offline... you've been in merge hell, I understand :)
21:48:40 <dendrobates> everything is fine
21:48:47 <johnpur> we all want soren to be happy!
21:48:48 <soren> One of my concerns was that I'm intending to get the final release into Ubuntu Maverick, and adding entirely new components is.. well, not the sort of thing that is taken lightly in stable release updates.
21:49:00 <soren> :)
21:49:02 <jaypipes> soren: understood.
21:49:02 <dendrobates> He works best when mistreated
21:49:03 <jbryce> dendrobates: one last question about the release artifacts. can you get annegentle_ the link to the austin tarball?
21:49:15 <dendrobates> yes.
21:49:16 <soren> jaypipes: ...but apprantly, I can just pretend it never happened and not enable it.
21:49:21 <soren> jaypipes: So yay :)
21:49:25 <jaypipes> soren: yup.
21:49:27 <jbryce> dendrobates: thanks!
21:49:38 <soren> dendrobates: Don't tell them that :)
21:49:41 <alekibango> lolz
21:49:56 <dendrobates> ok, anything else?
21:49:59 <alekibango> looks like happy ending
21:49:59 <dendrobates> last chance
21:50:08 <dendrobates> we all need to get back to work.
21:50:28 <dendrobates> #endmeeting