Tuesday, 2015-12-15

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-wolfe.freenode.net- [freenode-info] if you're at a conference and other people are having trouble connecting, please mention it to staff: http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#gettinghelp01:06
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d0ugalo/14:00
weshayhellooo14:01
eggmastero/14:01
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d0ugalHi!14:01
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tzumainnhi!14:02
trowno/14:03
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dprince#startmeeting tripleo14:03
openstackMeeting started Tue Dec 15 14:03:30 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is dprince. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.14:03
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.14:03
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: tripleo)"14:03
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'tripleo'14:03
dprince#topic agenda14:04
dprince* bugs14:04
dprince* Projects releases or stable backports14:04
dprince* CI14:04
dprince* Specs14:04
*** openstack changes topic to "agenda (Meeting topic: tripleo)"14:04
dprince* one off agenda items14:04
dprince* open discussion14:04
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akrivokahello!14:04
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d0ugalHi!14:04
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* derekh is lurking while in another meeting14:04
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dprinceI see there a few one off agenda items so lets leave time for those...14:05
jdobo/14:05
dprince#topic bugs14:06
*** openstack changes topic to "bugs (Meeting topic: tripleo)"14:06
dprincewe are currently dealing with several issues that block us from updating our DELOREAN_REPO_URL in ci14:07
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dprinceI believe trown is tracking things here14:07
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dprince#link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/delorean_master_current_issues14:07
dprincetrown, derekh: anything there that we need to talk about now?14:07
trowndprince: I think the swift overcloud fix that merged has broken undercloud install14:08
derekhdprince: nothing from me, havn't looked at it much this week14:08
dprincetrown: okay, weird. We shouldn't even have the ringbuilder module in the undercloud14:09
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trowndprince: if I manually apply that change to the swift puppet manifest, `openstack undercloud install` errors during puppet-stack-config14:09
dprincetrown: perhaps paste the error and link it into the etherpad so we can have a look...14:09
trowndprince: will do after the meeting14:09
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trowndmitry is working on the IPA issue14:10
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trownah... dprince I am not sure how we will have https://review.openstack.org/257550 pass CI14:10
trownit relies on new openstackclient package that changed the behavior14:11
dprincetrown: perhaps we just coordinate it with bumping the DELOREAN_REPO_URL14:11
dprincetrown: like, have a WIP tripleo-ci job to demonstrate that it passes w/ the new URL, but we don't actually land the tripleo-ci fix.14:12
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marioso/ sorry late14:12
dprincetrown: I think that would be enough14:12
trowndprince: ok makes sense14:12
trowndprince: we will have to save that for last then, since it will not pass with new URL right now14:12
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dprincetrown: sure.14:13
trownok I am good to move on... if anyone wants to help coordinate through that etherpad14:14
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dprinceokay, I will follow up on that etherpad after this meeting14:14
adarazso/14:14
dprinceany other bugs stuff?14:14
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dprince#topic Projects releases or stable backports14:15
*** openstack changes topic to "Projects releases or stable backports (Meeting topic: tripleo)"14:15
dprince#link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2015-December/082053.html14:18
dprincesteve gave a nice review of the status of the stable branch backports work there I think that should cover us this week14:19
dprinceother than that anything else?14:19
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dprince#topic CI14:20
*** openstack changes topic to "CI (Meeting topic: tripleo)"14:20
dprinceCI is working again. We had an outage last Friday due to a puppet-mysql change14:20
dprince#link https://bugs.launchpad.net/tripleo/+bug/152531414:21
openstackLaunchpad bug 1525314 in tripleo "CI failing on undercloud connecting to MariaDB" [Critical,Triaged]14:21
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dprinceThat has been landed now, but the patch/fix looks like it didn't make it into the ticket there14:21
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dprincederekh: any other CI things this week?14:23
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derekhdprince: same problems we had last week are ongoing,14:25
derekhdprince: should find time this week to figure them out (rh1 cloud instances erroring)14:26
dprincederekh: okay, thanks14:27
dprince#topic Specs14:27
*** openstack changes topic to "Specs (Meeting topic: tripleo)"14:27
dprincetzumainn: hi, so on the TripleO API spec. do we mention anywhere about it being a prototype or anything. i.e. not necissarily a final form perhaps?14:28
tzumainndprince, let me double check14:29
dprincetzumainn: specifically thinking about what might happen w/ Mistral, and or if we decide that we need more TripleO API calls or something14:29
dprincetzumainn: just might be worth adding some verbage about this being sort of an exploratory effort, and while useful not necissarily a final state (yet)14:30
tzumainndprince, I do mention that the project as a whole may go in a different direction in the future, such as with Mistral - is that sufficient?14:30
dprincetzumainn: maybe :). I'll ready it again and follow up on the review again.14:30
tzumainndprince, haha, okay, thanks!14:31
dprincetzumainn: thanks for the adjustments you've already made last week14:31
tzumainnno problem, I appreciate the reviews!14:31
slaglewhat about CI coverage on the api?14:32
slaglethat might help tease out what direction we end up going14:32
slagleby getting in CI it will naturally start showing up in people's development workflows14:32
d0ugalThat's a good idea.14:32
d0ugalWe would get it when the CLI uses the API, but that is some time away14:32
dprinceI would think we would want CI on any workflows we use (if possible)14:33
dprinceTripleO API, or not14:33
dprincebut ++ for CI on it as well14:33
tzumainnyep, that makes sense, I think the spec mentions that as well14:33
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slagleright, but the GUI isn't under TripleO (yet?). and if CLI is some time away...14:34
slaglemy concern here is that means that api isn't really getting good coverage in a way that is consumable for tripleo devs14:34
dprinceslagle: right, the same problem as Tuskar basically14:35
slagleexactly14:35
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dprinceI think perhaps TripleO API will just have to rely on some extra functional tests until client side tools catch up14:37
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d0ugalI would be happy to help add CI support, it should be quite easy but I am unfamiliar14:37
d0ugal(I am testing the API directly with curl anyway)14:38
d0ugalunfamiliar with CI*14:38
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dprinceokay, perhaps any other comments can go on the TripleO API spec review14:38
dprinceI'd like to leave time for the agenda items14:39
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dprincetzumainn: didn't we confirm people are okay not renaming 'tripleo-common' last week?14:39
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tzumainndprince, yeah, I didn't re-add that topic... ?14:39
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d0ugalheh, I guess it was never removed.14:40
dprincetzumainn: no worries, I thought I rememberd it14:40
dprinceokay14:40
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dprince#topic swift storage for tripleo-heat-templates14:40
*** openstack changes topic to "swift storage for tripleo-heat-templates (Meeting topic: tripleo)"14:40
dprinced0ugal: this is you right14:41
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d0ugaldprince: Yup14:41
dprinceIs Swift the best storage for the t-h-t? Concerns about dealing with 100+ related files without transactions14:41
dprinced0ugal: what if we use a tarball?14:41
d0ugalThis may work better as an email, but I wanted to raise the subject here14:41
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d0ugaldprince: That could well work, so we are just dealing with one file.14:41
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dprinced0ugal: right, but the API would have to expand it (or cache it) to be able to read it each time14:42
d0ugalThe general issue is that to make Swift work well for t-h-t we need to do batch operations14:42
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jtomasekdoude: how would that work, what if we need to set metadata only for certain set of files in some of the steps?14:42
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d0ugaldprince: I guess we would still have an issue with multiple requests updating the tarball at the same time14:43
d0ugaljtomasek: We wouldn't use swift's metadata, we would have to use our own? Which isn't ideal14:43
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rbradythe tarball doesn't solve the original problem and degrades the user experience14:43
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d0ugalThis review is a good example: https://review.openstack.org/25748114:44
d0ugalIt essentially does a manual rollback, doing that concerns me14:44
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jtomasekhow about plain old database instead of swift? is that an option?14:44
d0ugaljtomasek: We did that for Tuskar, it wasn't popular for various reasons.14:44
jtomasekyep14:44
d0ugalI don't know if the Glance Artifact change happened, that was a candidate and they were promising some features to do with related files14:45
dprinced0ugal: could be a backend, Mysql, Swift14:45
d0ugalor related assets I think I should say14:45
slaglei'm not sure what the exact issue is, but git was floated as an altenative to Swift. is that still relevant?14:45
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d0ugalslagle: In https://review.openstack.org/257481 we need to create a container and add the files for a plan. If we have an issue somewhere we have a half created plan.14:46
dprincewouldn't glance potentially store its artifacts in swift as well. Like if we enabled the Glance swift backend14:46
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d0ugaldprince: Oh, maybe. I didn't know what.14:46
d0ugalMultiple backends would be a reasonable option, it should be quite easy, but I would be concerned about supporting them all.14:46
d0ugalAnother example with the current code, if somebody uploads a new plan and somebody else deploys at the same time you could end up deploying half old and new14:47
d0ugalbecause the changes are not atomic14:48
dprinced0ugal: for deployment it sounds like you need a staging area that is part of the "Transaction"14:48
gfidenteguys, pardon the stupid question but, does this mean we'll end up installing a copy of the templates in /usr and deploy from another source?14:48
dprinced0ugal: or, you lock it via a locking mechanism to prohibit uploads during deployment14:49
d0ugaldprince: yup, I had wondered about locking14:49
jtomasekgfidente: basicaly yes, beacause non-cli clients have no means to access files in the filesystem14:49
dprinced0ugal: it is a long lock to hold!14:49
d0ugalThere are ways to make this work, but we will always be creating our own database on swift. is that a good idea?14:49
gfidentejtomasek, do the non-cli clients *need* access to the files?14:50
jdobthis discussion sounds oddly familiar :)14:50
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d0ugalSince there don't seem to be any obvious answers, it might be best to take this to openstack-dev?14:51
gfidentejtomasek, is it the client going to do the heat POST or the tripleo-common ?14:51
jtomasekgfidente: good point it is a tripleo-common at the moment14:51
d0ugalI've got a few scenarios where I think we will have issues :)14:51
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d0ugaldprince: I think that's probably all I've got for now :)14:54
dprinced0ugal: thanks, let us know how it goes14:54
d0ugalSwift is working fairly well as a POC for the API, but I am not sure how viable it is beyond that.14:54
dprince#topic open discussion14:55
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d0ugalOne general question, should we formally deprecate Tuskar?14:55
dprinced0ugal: vs, just remove it?14:55
d0ugaldprince: or do that14:56
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d0ugalvs leaving it and doing nothing which I think is the current state14:56
d0ugal:)14:56
dprinced0ugal: I'm fine removing it if it is no longer used14:56
d0ugalI don't think it is. I'll ask on openstack-dev about that too14:56
dprincecool14:56
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dprinceI think that is it for this week15:00
dprincethanks everyone15:00
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d0ugalThanks!15:00
jdob\o15:00
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derekhty15:00
dprince#endmeeting tripleo15:00
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"15:00
openstackMeeting ended Tue Dec 15 15:00:29 2015 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)15:00
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tripleo/2015/tripleo.2015-12-15-14.03.html15:00
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tripleo/2015/tripleo.2015-12-15-14.03.txt15:00
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tripleo/2015/tripleo.2015-12-15-14.03.log.html15:00
akrivokabye \o15:00
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tmorin#startmeeting bgpvpn15:01
openstackMeeting started Tue Dec 15 15:01:15 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is tmorin. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.15:01
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.15:01
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: bgpvpn)"15:01
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'bgpvpn'15:01
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matrohonhi all15:01
Sam-I-Amhi15:01
tmorinhi matrohon doude enikher timirnich15:01
tmorinhi Sam-I-Am15:01
enikherhey15:01
Sam-I-Amanother meeting before coffee15:02
Sam-I-Amliving on the edge here15:02
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matrohonI've updated the agenda15:02
matrohonhttps://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/BGPVPN15:03
matrohonWe are very proud to annouce that the first release of bgpvpn is out15:03
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matrohon#link : https://pypi.python.org/pypi/networking-bgpvpn15:03
tmorintagged 3.0.015:04
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tmorinwe are very happy of all the work done together to achieve that !  :-D15:04
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matrohonlet's start by the documentation topic so that Sam-I-Am can drink its coffee15:05
Sam-I-Amhahaha15:05
Sam-I-Ampleeeeeeze15:05
tmoringo ahead :)15:06
tmorin#topic documentation15:06
*** openstack changes topic to "documentation (Meeting topic: bgpvpn)"15:06
Sam-I-Amthanks15:06
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Sam-I-Amshort story - bgpvpn needs docs so people can deploy it in real environments15:06
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tmorinby the way: hi pcarver15:06
Sam-I-Amits a fairly complex feature15:06
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janscheurichHi15:06
matrohonhi janscheurich15:06
tmorinpcarver: the topic above is related to your suggestions15:06
tmorinhi janscheurich15:06
Sam-I-Ammy suggestion would be implementing a deployment scenario in the networking guide15:07
matrohonSam-I-Am, +115:07
pcarvertmorin: sorry, on a voice conf call. will need to scroll back and read15:07
tmorin(we've just announced that our release happened: https://pypi.python.org/pypi/networking-bgpvpn)15:07
tmorinpcarver: nothing to scroll back yet, we are just starting15:07
Sam-I-Amthe most basic multi-node architecture on which someone can deploy bgpvpn, try it out, and determine how to deploy it in their specific environment15:08
tmorinpcarver: Sam-I-Am suggestion is close to what you had proposed to do in Tokyo, right ? (if I recall correctly)15:08
Sam-I-Am#link http://docs.openstack.org/networking-guide/deploy.html15:08
matrohonSam-I-Am, should we get inspired by guides for features such as VPNaas15:08
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Sam-I-Ammatrohon: vpnaas needs docs too15:08
Sam-I-Amtheres lots of things without good docs and thats what keeps people from using them15:09
Sam-I-Amneutron has seen a significant adoption after the networking guide scenarios15:09
Sam-I-Amin the case of vpnaas, the guide would have something like "add vpnaas to these basic scenarios"15:09
pcarvertmorin: I was going to revise the API documentation, but I got distracted by an ongoing effort of the documentation team to change how API docs are done. I hadn't talked about the networking guide, but that's absolutely a good idea. BGPVPN networking scenarios should be included in the networking guide.15:09
Sam-I-Amso people can add features to something they're already familiar with15:09
tmorinsam-i-am: would you have kickstarting info on where to doc the work (which repo to contribute to) and which tooling to use (e.g. anything particular for figures ?)15:10
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Sam-I-Amthe repo is openstack-manuals and we use sphinx/rst15:10
pcarverThe issue with the API docs is that there's a migration effort going on that I don't completely understand. It seems to be about generating API docs from the code, but I don't quite understand the how.15:10
janscheurichWould the example deployment be based on bagpipe reference driver?15:11
Sam-I-Ami've done most of the diagrams in omnigraffle (because they look nice) but you can use whatever as long as its clear and i can convert them as time allows15:11
pcarverThe docs team is focussed on first migrating from their current format (which isn't RST, it's something else I forget)15:11
Sam-I-Amjanscheurich: yes, because OVS is in the ref arch15:11
Sam-I-Ampcarver: docbook/xml is almost long gone15:11
tmorinjanscheurich: we have to cover the reference driver, but this does not exclude covering the other driver/backend options15:11
Sam-I-Amthe networking guide never used docbook15:11
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pcarverSam-I-Am: agreed. separate issue15:12
Sam-I-Amtmorin: right now the networking guide only support refarch stuff because we've found third-party stuff doesnt receive much love. in the case of ODL, the ODL documentation should include how to implement bgpvpn with ODL.15:12
pcarverI hadn't talked about updating the networking guide, but agree it should be done15:13
Sam-I-Ampcarver: its the place operators go for docs15:13
pcarverI was talking about updating the API reference, which is currently RST for BGPVPN, but WADL for most of OpenStack15:13
Sam-I-Amdevref is scary and usually oriented toward devstack15:13
Sam-I-Ampcarver: ohhhh, the api docs15:13
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Sam-I-Ampcarver: yeah... those are moving too, but at a slower pace15:13
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matrohonSam-I-Am, so we should add a new bullet for our advanced service in the deployment scenario chapter?15:14
pcarverThe docs team is currently migrating WADL to something called Swagger and there seems to be something about generating API docs from code, but I don't think they've quite got it entirely figured out yet15:14
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Sam-I-Ammatrohon: yeah, i think this belongs in advanced services and would include a deployment scenario that builds on one of the OVS scenarios if possible15:15
Sam-I-Ampcarver: yeah thats it. i stay out of api docs, but they are pretty far out of date because of the complexity :/15:15
Sam-I-Ammatrohon: i'm guessing site-to-site vpn requires a few more components in the architecture15:16
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matrohonSam-I-Am, let's start by population the "advanced srevices" section for bgpvpn15:16
pcarverSam-I-Am: It would be great if we could generate API docs direct from code, similar to how CLI help is generated from comments in code, but I don't think the instructions on how to do that have been written yet.15:16
Sam-I-Ammatrohon: is bgpvpn part of vpnaas?15:16
Sam-I-Ampcarver: have you spoken to anne gentle? i think she's working on that15:17
matrohonSam-I-Am, for the moment it's a seperated effort15:17
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Sam-I-Ammatrohon: same concept though?15:17
Sam-I-Amone uses ipsec the other uses AS numbers?15:18
pcarverSam-I-Am: I exchanged a few emails and she shared a few links, but I couldn't quite figure it all out and it looked to me like the links she shared were in a pretty early state.15:18
Sam-I-Ampcarver: bleh :/15:19
pcarverShe referenced a couple of tools that seemed to be very early development15:19
matrohonSam-I-Am, only the VPN word is similar, in the context of bgpvpn cloud admin and tenants can't create VPNs15:19
Sam-I-Amwell, someone needs to do the api doc updates15:19
Sam-I-Amas much as it sucks15:19
pcarverSam-I-Am: I still have API doc updates for BGPVPN on my todo list.15:20
Sam-I-Ammatrohon: probably makes sense to write up some differences between the various vpn options15:20
pcarverSam-I-Am: I can just update RST if nothing else seems possible, but I was hoping that given a bit of time the OpenStack-wide strategy would become clearer.15:21
Sam-I-Ammatrohon: particularly catering to people who have used them in non-cloud scenarios (like ISPs)15:21
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Sam-I-Amfor example, i've used bgp vpns at an isp, but need to know how they relate to cloud15:21
matrohonSam-I-Am, makes sense15:22
matrohonAny volunteer to wirite a bgpvpn section in the networking guide?15:23
Sam-I-Ammatrohon: can this be entire self-contained or does it require an existing bgp vpn?15:23
matrohonit requires existing bgpvpn15:23
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Sam-I-Ammatrohon: hmm, makes it tough to test15:23
matrohonthe API is usefull to attach neutron components to an existing bgpvpn15:23
Sam-I-Amhmm15:24
matrohonSam-I-Am, you need a bgp peer to talk to15:24
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Sam-I-Ammatrohon: ok, so looks difficult for us to test15:25
Sam-I-Amwhich is important...15:25
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tmorinSam-I-Am: you can still do a bit of testing without a real router15:26
Sam-I-Ammatrohon: would it make sense to provide a way to simulate it enough to validate any scenario?15:26
matrohonSam-I-Am, the networking guide team is testing everything written in the guide?15:26
tmorinSam-I-Am: that's what we do for development15:26
tmorinSam-I-Am: we test VM-to-VM connectivity via a BGP VPN15:26
Sam-I-Ammatrohon: we try to... because it significantly reduces frustration for our audience15:26
matrohonSam-I-Am, great!15:27
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tmorinSam-I-Am: this not the most illustrative way to describe the target use-case though....15:27
Sam-I-Amwell, we might need two things15:27
Sam-I-Amone - "heres how you can get your brain around this in a lab"15:28
Sam-I-Amtwo - "heres how you deploy this in real life"15:28
tmorinSam-I-Am: yes, that would make sense15:28
Sam-I-Amnetworking is a pain point for most openstack operators15:28
Sam-I-Amthey want to do X, but the solutions for X are complex15:28
Sam-I-Amsometimes they can't even find them (due to lack of docs)15:29
Sam-I-Ammost of the vpn stuff falls into this category15:29
Sam-I-Ami'd like to fix that :)15:29
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Sam-I-Amtmorin: do you have docs for this test case arch?15:29
tmorinSam-I-Am: you mean for "(one)" ?   no...15:30
tmorinSam-I-Am: although this is rather short to expain15:30
janscheurichIf we want to go beyond intra-DC VM-VM communication, and there is no chance of having an external BGP speaker (DC Gw), could we have a back-to-back scenario between two DCs?15:31
Sam-I-Amtmorin: yeah for (one)15:31
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Sam-I-Amhmmm15:33
Sam-I-Ami've simulated bgp vpns using agents on linux/bsd. would doing any of this help people understand the use cases?15:34
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matrohonSam-I-Am, this can also be done by bagpipe, and I think it helps understanding the use case15:35
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Sam-I-Ammatrohon: oh, thats cool15:35
Sam-I-Ami definitely think understanding the use case is good for the audience15:35
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Sam-I-Amnetworking is hard. :/15:36
tmorinSam-I-Am: to have a working test scenario for people to play with, bagpipe can be used as a bgpvpn implementation, but openbsd bgpd's can also do this I thikn15:36
matrohonSam-I-Am, expecially when we try to explain VPNs15:36
Sam-I-Amtmorin: yeah i've used openbsd's stuff15:36
tmorinSam-I-Am: I know openbsd bgpd does the bgp routing part (I tested it), but I haven't played with openbsd mpls stack15:36
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Sam-I-Amtmorin: if nothing else, the scenario can do this -15:37
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tmorinSam-I-Am: it would be nice to document how to test net-bgpvpn with bagpipe on compute nodes, and openbsd bgp/mpls on another box emulating a router with a few bgp/mpls VRFs15:37
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Sam-I-Amtell people "this example assumes your provider offers the following:" and then write the bgpvpn config to talk to that "something"15:37
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Sam-I-Amtmorin: yeah that would be nice15:38
Sam-I-Amany way to make this easier is helpful... and providing a way to configure it that actually works15:38
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tmorinSam-I-Am: in fact, that would rather be "this examples assumes you are a network operator supporting BGPVPNs and that openstack compute nodes peer with a BGP/MPLS router"15:39
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Sam-I-Amtmorin: sure. and bagpipe handles this on the compute nodes?15:39
tmorinSam-I-Am:yes15:40
Sam-I-Amok, i think we're getting somewhere here15:40
tmorinSam-I-Am: my point is that  it is very uncommon to have a DC/cloud operator allowed to exchange BGP VPN routes with its ISP15:40
Sam-I-Amtmorin: makes sense15:40
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Sam-I-Amso even if the config example only includes the openstack bits, the diagrams and traffic flow can contain a example ISP components15:41
tmorinSam-I-Am: yes15:41
Sam-I-Amlets go with that15:41
Sam-I-Amwhatever is the most common use-case15:41
Sam-I-Amor if there's more than one15:42
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matrohonok let's move on15:42
Sam-I-Amtmorin: can you (or someone here) add a spec to docs-specs for this?15:42
Sam-I-Amas an action item15:42
matrohon#action : matrohon to create a spec in doc-specs to populate the networking-guide for bgpvpn use cases15:44
pcarvertmorin: It may be uncommon, but it doesn't necessarily have to be. We have a whole service built around it and other providers could if they wanted to.15:44
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tmorinpcarver: yes, I can guess, and we have scenarios as well, but this is not the typical thing to document to help people get a clear picture of what they can expect from their ISP15:45
pcarverWe have a partnership with at least 4-5 different cloud providers to offer our MPLS VPN WAN to their customers via an API driven interface. It's just not an OpenStack standard mechanism.15:45
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matrohontopic : backport status?15:47
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tmorinpcarver: yes, but my point is that the documentation should say clearly upfront that in most cases, Internet ISPs don't provide this option, in which case what the BGVPN service plugin provide is probably not relevant to the cloud operator15:47
astupnikovexcuse me guys, just read your discussion and have a suggestion about use cases. Maybe it will be a good option for ISP to provide computing resources to his existing BGPVPN customers?15:48
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pcarvertmorin: sure, agreed. If someone isn't using an MPLS service provider directly (internal cloud) and isn't using a public cloud provider that offers MPLS as a service then BGPVPN project isn't relevant to them.15:48
matrohonastupnikov, that's probably the main use case, right15:48
Sam-I-Amtmorin: so who would be using these docs? the DC? ISP? seems like whomever deploys the compute nodes... but there's some interaction with openstack via the api.15:49
tmorinastupnikov: yes, this is the most typical/simple use case, in this case the cloud operator is a BGPVPN operator as well15:49
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pcarverSam-I-Am: I see the big use case as internal cloud, someone who is building their own OpenStack based cloud and also has a pre-existing MPLS provider for their pre-cloud WAN connectivity.15:50
tmorinSam-I-Am: the most typical users are (a) the cloud operators inside an ISP doing BGPVPNs and (b) a cloud operator working with an BGPVPN operator (like pcarver's company or ours)15:50
Sam-I-Ampcarver tmorin so i'm playing the "dont have a clue" angle here... i'm someone who want to implement openstack, but have this bgpvpn service i'd like to leverage.15:50
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tmorinpcarver: agreed, internal cloud as well for an operator already having BGPVPNs (typical NFV use case)15:51
Sam-I-Ami see that openstack supports bgpvpn... and need to figure out how to make it work with my environment.15:51
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pcarverSam-I-Am: If someone doesn't already have an MPLS based WAN (either service provider or customer of an MPLS provider) then they probably don't care about this project15:52
tmorinSam-I-Am: if you "want to leverage it", it means you probably know the technology well, and the implications about who works on the BGP/MPLS router side, and essentially care about the Openstack side15:52
tmorinpcarver: +115:52
Sam-I-Ampcarver: yeah, we'd assume they have one... and to tmorin's point... understand how it works15:52
Sam-I-Amits just the openstack side15:52
Sam-I-Amtrying to convert openstack to conventional networking theory is difficult for many people15:52
Sam-I-Amovs, linuxbridge, iptables... its confusing for many15:53
Sam-I-Amnamespaces, oh my15:53
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tmorinso explaining that requires going into details specific depending on the driver/backend15:54
tmorinfor the bagpipe driver, working with the openvswitch mech driver, a good description is15:55
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tmorin... the diagram at: http://docs.openstack.org/developer/networking-bgpvpn/bagpipe/index.html15:55
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Sam-I-Amok15:57
Sam-I-Ami'll do a bit of reading too15:57
Sam-I-Amtry to work on a docs spec that appeals to the people who would want this feature15:57
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Sam-I-Amsorry for consuming your meeting :/15:57
matrohon3 min left15:58
Sam-I-Amthings without docs dont launch well :/15:58
tmorinSam-I-Am: don't be, this is a useful discussion15:58
matrohon2 actually15:58
tmorin#topic kilo backport15:58
*** openstack changes topic to "kilo backport (Meeting topic: bgpvpn)"15:58
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tmorinwork is ongoing on the kilo backport15:58
tmorinwdeclercq backported router-association support15:58
tmorinI'm working on bagpipe driver backport15:58
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tmorinthis one isn't merged yet15:58
tmorinhaving it work will require a clean kilo branch for networking-bagpipe15:59
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matrohonthis should be the last commit before a potential release?15:59
tmorinI'd say so15:59
tmorinassuming everything works15:59
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matrohondoude is currently working on juno backport15:59
tmorinhaving a clean kilo branch for networking-bagpipe isn't trivial, because the branch had been named stable/kilo at the time, and each commit needs to go through folks in neutron-stable-maint16:00
matrohonI think we should wait for the kilo release and then rebase changes on juno16:00
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matrohonok16:00
matrohonit's time16:00
tmorinmestery has reviewed all of them today, but it seems we need someone else's +216:00
tmorinyes16:00
tmorinthanks everyone !16:00
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tmorin#endmeeting16:00
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"16:00
openstackMeeting ended Tue Dec 15 16:00:56 2015 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)16:00
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/bgpvpn/2015/bgpvpn.2015-12-15-15.01.html16:00
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/bgpvpn/2015/bgpvpn.2015-12-15-15.01.txt16:00
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openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/bgpvpn/2015/bgpvpn.2015-12-15-15.01.log.html16:01
Sam-I-Amthanks for all the docs talk16:01
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adrian_ottocontainers team meeting will begin in just a moment16:01
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tmorinsam-i-am: thanks for yours !16:02
adrian_otto#startmeeting containers16:03
openstackMeeting started Tue Dec 15 16:03:05 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is adrian_otto. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.16:03
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.16:03
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: containers)"16:03
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'containers'16:03
adrian_otto#link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/Containers#Agenda_for_2015-12-15_1600_UTC Our Agenda16:03
adrian_otto#topic Roll Call16:03
*** openstack changes topic to "Roll Call (Meeting topic: containers)"16:03
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adrian_ottoAdrian Otto16:03
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madhurio/16:03
hongbino/16:03
houmingo/16:03
Kennano/16:03
daneo/16:03
rpothiero/16:03
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jugglero/16:03
bradjoneso/16:03
jugglerPerry Rivera16:03
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vilobhmm11o/16:03
eghoboo/16:04
tcammanngood evening16:04
adrian_ottohelo madhuri, hongbin, houming, Kennan, dane, rpothier, juggler, bradjones, vilobhmm11, eghobo, tcammann16:04
daneyono/16:04
adrian_ottoI am speaking SMTP protocol apparently16:04
adrian_ottohello!!16:04
jugglergood localtime adrian!16:04
adrian_ottolol16:04
adrian_ottook, let's begin16:05
adrian_otto#topic Announcements16:05
*** openstack changes topic to "Announcements (Meeting topic: containers)"16:05
adrian_otto1) Changing our release type16:05
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adrian_ottowe currently use the release:independent release model16:06
adrian_ottoI plan to transition us to the release:cycle-with-intermediary model instead16:06
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adrian_ottothe key difference is that rather than just cutting releases whenever...16:06
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adrian_ottowe still do that, but the OpenStack release team also picks one of those releases to include it with the names releases16:07
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adrian_ottoso the one we release closest to the milestone events gets included with OpenStack16:07
adrian_ottoI plan to submit a change proposal to the projects.yaml file in the openstack/governance repository to indicate this change16:07
adrian_ottoany thoughts on this, or input I should consider prior to moving forward with this?16:08
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tcammannlgtm16:08
adrian_ottook, If you think of anything of concern, let me know before Jan 2116:09
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Kennanadrian_otto: what's the impact to developers?16:09
adrian_ottothat's the drop dead date for reverting this for Mitaka if I move forward and we change our minds16:09
adrian_ottoKennan: I am not aware of any impact. This is an administrative change.16:09
Kennanok16:10
adrian_otto2) December meetings16:10
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adrian_ottothis is the last team meeting I had scheduled for December16:10
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adrian_ottoI expect attendance to be rather sparse for the next two weeks16:11
daneyonyay to the holiday break16:11
vilobhmm11adrian_otto : what advanatage this brings over the current model we follow ? Or is it a madatory change from for every project ?16:11
adrian_ottovilobhmm11: this adjustment is optional, but it's a way to include Magnum in the OpenStack milestone releases more officially16:11
adrian_ottoand to maintain the stable branches in lock step with other projects16:11
vilobhmm11adrian_otto : ok16:11
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adrian_ottoso if we did hold more team meetings in December they would fall on Dec 22 and Dec 2916:12
adrian_ottoI suggest we resume on Jan 516:12
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adrian_ottowhat do you all think?16:13
daneyon+1 on 1/516:13
hongbin+116:13
Kennanwish you guys good holiday16:13
vilobhmm11+116:13
bradjones+116:13
Kennan+116:13
juggler+116:13
madhuri_+116:13
adrian_otto#agreed our next team meeting will be 2016-01-05 at 1600 UTC16:13
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adrian_ottoany more announcements from team members?16:13
adrian_otto#topic Review Action Items16:14
*** openstack changes topic to "Review Action Items (Meeting topic: containers)"16:14
adrian_otto(none)16:15
adrian_otto#topic Container Networking Subteam Update (daneyon)16:15
*** openstack changes topic to "Container Networking Subteam Update (daneyon) (Meeting topic: containers)"16:15
daneyonhere is the log from last week's meeting16:15
daneyon#link http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/container_networking/2015/container_networking.2015-12-10-18.01.html16:15
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daneyonquite a bit of discussion related to the image building spec16:15
daneyon#link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/magnum/+spec/fedora-atomic-image-build16:15
daneyonif yolanda is available, i would like to talk with her after the meeting16:16
daneyonwe also had good discussion related to the continerize kube services spec16:16
daneyonAs an action, I talked with the kube communtiy to get a better understanding about reasons to containerize flannel and etcd16:17
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daneyonMy position is that we do not containerize etcd/flannel b/c of the 2 docker daemon requirement16:17
daneyonI believe the complexity/operational overhead outweighs the benefits of containerizing these 2 services16:18
adrian_ottoyou don't actually need 2 deamons16:18
daneyon?16:18
adrian_ottoyou can expose the docker sock file16:18
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daneyonhas anyone tested that yet?16:19
adrian_ottoso you allow the utility containers access to thedocker daemon on the host that way16:19
adrian_ottoyes, we do that. It works.16:19
hongbinInteresting16:19
eghoboadrian_otto: no you need 2 daemons, somebody need to run flannel container16:19
adrian_ottoyou just need to set your expectations that when you do that, your container is not a security isolation facility at all16:19
Kennanadrian_otto: do you mean share host mnt namespace ? or something else ?16:19
adrian_ottobut you are using the container image as a mechanism for more convenient maintenance and customization of that utility environment16:20
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adrian_ottouse -v to share the socket file.16:20
adrian_ottoit's actually evasively simple.16:21
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Kennanseems kolla have some experience like libvirt related, share the host (if I remember clearly)16:21
Kennanmaybe can find some helpful info from that16:21
daneyonadrian_otto I am open to containerizing etcd/flannel if it does not overcomplicate things16:21
daneyonSeems like your idea is worth exploring16:21
adrian_ottosdake offered to assist with expertise from his team to help with this, if desired16:22
adrian_ottoI don't want a setup that's overly complex either16:22
daneyonadrian_otto could you add feedback to my message on the ML or on the review?16:23
adrian_ottobut it's worth some exploration to see if we can strike a balance there, as most who are adopting Magnum are struggling with bay node image customization16:23
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suro-patzadrian_otto: could you elaborate the 'the struggle with bay node image customization'16:24
adrian_ottothey don't know how to build the images16:24
daneyonUntil we can get these services contaienr ized and the DIB images implemented, we need to update the Atomic image16:24
daneyonA. To address a vxlan bug in the current code16:24
adrian_ottoit's not clear who they belong to16:24
daneyonB. If we go to F21, the image is ~ 25% smaller.16:25
adrian_ottothose cloud operators are not familiar with the tools we use16:25
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adrian_ottoso if we ould use docker images to allow changing those components, it may reduce the friction there.16:25
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Kennanadrian_otto: docker images seems still need some customization(heat need do that) right?16:26
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adrian_ottothere has also been repeated requests for bay nodes based on an ubuntu or debian derivative16:27
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adrian_ottoKennan: yes16:27
daneyondoes anyone have a better understanding why a cloud operator wants to create an image instead of using our atomic-5 image?16:27
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adrian_ottodaenyon: one reason is they want to use Magnum on bare metal nodes16:28
Kennanseems Tango is working on build new image, he is working on docs if process is OK16:28
adrian_ottowhich requires fooling with the images depending on how they implement bare metal servers (with ironic or otherwise)16:28
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hongbinYes, also they might want to ship a bay with customization16:29
daneyonadrian_otto I thought we were waiting for the Iromic team to add neutron ports so we can start supporting bare metal nodes.16:29
adrian_ottoothers have an apparently religious opposition to any component that's a RedHat distribution of Linux (rational or not, these preferences are strong)16:29
daneyonI am concerned adding Ubuntu, Debian to the mix16:29
adrian_ottodaneyon: we are, but in the mean time, downstream consumers want to make that work16:30
Kennanadrian_otto:  build images maybe OK if our guide or tools is applicable and easy, I think, like some cloud, adminitstraotr build images themselves16:30
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adrian_ottosometimes cloud operators want to bake in things like pre-configured telemetry and fault monitoring16:31
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daneyonok, that makes sense.16:31
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adrian_ottoalright let's wrap the network subteam update16:32
adrian_ottoany more to add, daneyon?16:32
adrian_otto#topic Magnum UI Subteam Update (bradjones)16:33
*** openstack changes topic to "Magnum UI Subteam Update (bradjones) (Meeting topic: containers)"16:33
bradjoneshey16:33
bradjonesquite a few reviews out that could do with a look over16:33
daneyonnope16:33
bradjonesI still have a couple of older ones to look at this evening16:33
bradjonesthere is one discussion16:33
bradjones#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/256358/16:34
bradjonesabout moving the dashboard to a panel group under the project dashboard in horizon16:34
bradjonesit makes no functional difference will just be a different place for users to go to16:35
bradjonesso if anyone has any strong objection to that then leave a comment on that review16:35
adrian_ottothanks Brad16:35
adrian_ottoany more remarks on Magnum UI?16:35
bradjonesnot from me16:35
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adrian_ottoEssential Blueprint Updates16:36
adrian_ottook, we have 4 to cover16:36
adrian_ottoI am drawing these from here:16:36
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adrian_otto#link tps://blueprints.launchpad.net/magnum/mitaka Mitaka Magnum Blueprints16:36
adrian_ottocorrections16:36
adrian_otto#undo16:36
openstackRemoving item from minutes: <ircmeeting.items.Link object at 0xaa31950>16:36
adrian_ottoirc://chat.freenode.net:6667/#link https://blueprints.http://launchpad.net/magnum/mitaka Mitaka Magnum Blueprints16:37
adrian_ottosigh16:37
adrian_otto#link https://blueprints.http://launchpad.net/magnum/mitaka Mitaka Magnum Blueprints16:37
adrian_ottook, here we go.16:37
jugglerthanks adrian!16:37
adrian_otto#Link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/magnum/+spec/magnum-tempest (dimtruck)16:37
adrian_otto#link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/magnum/+spec/magnum-tempest (dimtruck)16:37
adrian_ottodimtruck: you here?16:38
dimtruckhi :).  i am16:38
adrian_ottoany update on this?16:38
dimtruckso the update is that the plugin patch is passing16:38
adrian_ottogreat!16:39
dimtruckand thanks to hongbin i have a much better implementation.  I'm changing the description of the patch and it'll be ready to review/merge16:39
dimtruck(taking it out of WIP)16:39
adrian_ottothanks for your continued work on this.16:39
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dimtruckthere are also 25 tests in patch review for magnum bay CRUDs16:39
dimtruckand i also have CA CRUDs ready to go once those are merged :)16:39
dimtruckonce jenkins is happy :)16:40
adrian_ottoThanks dimtruck. Next we have a celebration of an implemented feature:16:40
adrian_otto#link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/magnum/+spec/swarm-functional-testing (eliqiao)16:40
adrian_ottocomplete!16:40
* adrian_otto applause16:40
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adrian_ottoNext we have a started one:16:40
adrian_otto#link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/magnum/+spec/resource-quota (vilobhmm11)16:41
adrian_ottovilobhmm11: any update on this?16:41
vilobhmm11adrain_otto : proposed design on ML http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2015-December/082266.html16:41
vilobhmm11would request everyone to have a look and let me know if that sounds fair16:41
vilobhmm11initially plan is to impose quota on bay creation16:42
vilobhmm11by restriting user of a project with certain number of bays to create16:42
vilobhmm11and then proceed with other resources16:42
adrian_ottothanks vilobhmm1116:42
adrian_ottoI am marking Design as "Discussion" status16:43
vilobhmm11adrian_otto : thats it from my side…will continue the discusssion on ML16:43
vilobhmm11adrian_otto : sure thanks!16:43
adrian_ottodone16:43
adrian_ottoand last we have:16:43
adrian_otto#link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/magnum/+spec/split-gate-functional-dsvm-magnum (eliqiao)16:43
adrian_ottoeliqiao: any update?16:43
adrian_ottoI know we have been struggling with OOM errors16:44
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hongbinI can give an update for the memory issue16:44
adrian_ottohongbin, one sec16:44
adrian_otto#topic Open Discussion16:45
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adrian_ottoHongbin raise gate error http://logs.openstack.org/87/253987/1/check/gate-functional-dsvm-magnum-k8s/9eb5206/logs/screen-n-cpu.txt libvirtError: internal error: process exited while connecting to monitor: Cannot set up guest memory 'pc.ram': Cannot allocate memory16:45
adrian_ottook, hongbin, proceed!16:45
hongbinI have talked to the infra team16:45
hongbinThey will investigate why some nodes has less memory than others16:45
tcammannI added a item to the agenda, probably need a refresh :)16:46
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adrian_ottotcammann: , you are welcome to raise it after the next16:46
hongbinAt the same time, we could investigate how to reduce memory consuption for our gate job16:46
adrian_ottohongbin: thanks for driving that one16:46
adrian_otto#link https://bugs.launchpad.net/magnum/+bug/1521237 Gate occasionally failed with nova libvirt error16:46
openstackLaunchpad bug 1521237 in Magnum "Gate occasionally failed with nova libvirt error" [Critical,New]16:46
hongbinThat is it from my side16:47
adrian_ottohongbin reported this one, but the work is unassigned16:47
hongbinI can assign it myself16:47
adrian_ottohongbin: did you want to cover this one?16:47
adrian_ottothis is still the same topic16:48
adrian_ottook, nm. Thanks!16:48
adrian_ottowanghua: you here?16:48
adrian_ottoI have a note from you on the agenda:16:48
adrian_ottowanghua raise "How to improve docker registry in magnum?"16:48
adrian_ottoif not, tcammann it's all yours then16:49
hongbinI can raise this issue on behalf16:49
adrian_ottook hongbin16:49
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hongbinBasically, right now docker registry listen to localhost16:49
tcammannMidcycle?!16:49
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hongbinIt is easy to pull docker images from private registry16:50
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adrian_ottoyes, Jan-Feb is the timeframe for that16:50
hongbinBut it is hard to push16:50
hongbinBecause users need to ssh into the node and do the push, which is inconvience16:50
adrian_ottoI'm seeking any sponsors who would like to host our midcycle16:50
adrian_ottohongbin: acknowledged16:51
tcammannI could probably get HP to host it in Sunnyvale, or Bristol (UK)16:51
adrian_ottohongbin: I view this as a bug in Swarm16:51
tcammanns/HP/HPE/16:51
adrian_ottobut the workaround is you do a push to the swarm endpoint, followed by a pull16:51
adrian_ottoand then all nodes get it from the registry16:52
adrian_ottobut that's icky. it should just work when you do a push16:52
hongbinYes it is16:52
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adrian_ottotcammann: thanks for that.16:53
adrian_ottoteam, how many contributors do we have in Europe that would attend in Bristol?16:53
adrian_ottoor who would be able to approve travel to attend?16:53
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adrian_ottohongbin: we have the same issue in k8s and swarm, right?16:54
adrian_ottotcammann: if you would check on the Sunnyvale option, we can expect strong attendance there.16:54
hongbinadrian_otto: Yes, as long as the registry listen to localhost, we have the issue16:54
Kennanhongbin: for private registry, not quite get, you use docker pull --private-url,  and docker push not work for that ?16:54
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rpothierI have a comment on heat template refactor16:55
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hongbinKennan: because the --private-url is localhost16:56
adrian_ottorpothier: we are in open discussion, so you may blurt out anything you'd like16:56
Kennanwhy we bind to localhost, is that bp design like that?16:56
Kennanseems we need expose url can be accessible16:56
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rpothierthere is a spec in heat to use conditionals, as an alternative to Jinja16:57
adrian_ottoKennan: we took that as a best practice16:57
hongbinKennan: It listen to localhost to avoid TLS complexity16:57
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adrian_ottobecause the registry is back ended on swift16:57
adrian_ottoso might as well run it on all bay nodes16:57
adrian_ottoand then you don't need to worry about public exposure of the private registry host16:57
KennanI remember setup private registry before, seems OK.(for TLS , not quite dig it)16:57
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adrian_ottoit is time to wrap up our meeting now, with just a minute remaining16:58
adrian_ottoany final remarks?16:58
hongbinadrian_otto: I recalled you want to mid-cycle right after Ironic mid-cycle?16:58
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cooldharma06Hi all.. I am new to this and I like to contribute to Magnum.. Any suggestions..16:59
adrian_ottohongbin: I will cover midcycle planning on our ML16:59
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adrian_otto#action adrain_otto to plan midcycle by ML16:59
adrian_otto#undo16:59
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adrian_otto#action adrian_otto to plan midcycle by ML17:00
adrian_ottoour next team meeting will be 2016-01-05 at 160 UTC. See you all then. Happy holidays!17:00
adrian_otto#endmeeting17:00
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cooldharma06Ok Kennan thanks17:00
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"17:00
openstackMeeting ended Tue Dec 15 17:00:10 2015 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)17:00
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/containers/2015/containers.2015-12-15-16.03.html17:00
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/containers/2015/containers.2015-12-15-16.03.txt17:00
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/containers/2015/containers.2015-12-15-16.03.log.html17:00
sergmelikyan#startmeeting murano17:00
openstackMeeting started Tue Dec 15 17:00:25 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is sergmelikyan. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.17:00
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.17:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: murano)"17:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'murano'17:00
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sergmelikyanHi folks :)17:00
sergmelikyano/17:00
freerunnerHi ;)17:00
ativelkovo/17:00
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slaguno/17:03
katyaferventhi17:03
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sergmelikyanTodays agenda is pretty empty: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/MuranoAgenda17:03
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kzaitsev_mbo/17:05
kzaitsev_mbsry for being late, seems like I'm still in time for the rollcall17:05
sergmelikyanyep :)17:05
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sergmelikyantho with you here let's move to the action items review :)17:06
kzaitsev_mbyeah I think I had one there.. )17:06
sergmelikyan#topics Action Items Review17:06
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sergmelikyankzaitsev_mb: you promised to outline pros and cons of abandoning milestones & bps17:07
kzaitsev_mbI was to write a letter starting a discussion about abandoning milestones, yep17:07
kzaitsev_mbhaven't done that17:07
kzaitsev_mblet's keep the action item then please17:07
kzaitsev_mb#action kzaitsev_mb write a letter about abandoning milestones and/or blueprints17:08
katyaferventwill this include discussion about murano-apps releasing? or it is better to put this to a separate topic?17:08
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kzaitsev_mbkatyafervent: I don't think so. seems separate to me17:08
katyaferventok, agreed17:09
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kzaitsev_mbto start a meaningful discussion on murano-apps release model change we should get to puppet and heat-template folks and other app-like repositories and take a look at how they manage their repos17:09
kzaitsev_mband how they release that17:09
sergmelikyan#topic Open Discussion17:09
*** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: murano)"17:09
kzaitsev_mbAnd I don't think I'll find time till next meeting to do that.17:10
kzaitsev_mbBut I'll surely bring the topic as soon as I'll have a suggestion )17:10
sergmelikyanI guess we should start documenting current release model before trying to change that17:10
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ativelkovI have an item for the open part17:10
ativelkovright now we have the glare plugin placed in murano's contrib folder17:11
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ativelkovAnd it has its own setuptools setup.py / setup.cfg pair17:11
ativelkovWhich is - a bit- weird, since the top level directory has its own setup.py/cfg17:12
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sergmelikyanand same goes for not only glance plugins but also for murano plugins as well by the way17:12
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ativelkovsergmelikyan: right17:12
kzaitsev_mbativelkov: are there any examples/best practices on how to do that?17:12
kzaitsev_mblike maybe someone does anything similar17:12
ativelkovkzaitsev_mb: I've had a conversation recently17:13
ativelkovwith iyozhikov17:13
kzaitsev_mbI remember searchlight guys said, that they basically do the same, for their plugins17:13
ativelkovHe suggested to either split them into separate git repos (if they are indeed independent projects with their own release cycles etc), or to unite their setup.cfg's17:13
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kzaitsev_mbWhen we discussed possible murano plugin for searchlight he suggested it would live in the searchlight repo for now17:14
ativelkovso, have a single setup.cfg which defines all the different entry points, including the main murano's cripts (api, engine etc) and the plugins in appropriate namespaces17:14
sergmelikyanativelkov: but that would mean to install murano on machine where glance is installed17:14
kzaitsev_mbativelkov: you didn't answer the question though — are we the first to encounter this kind of situation?17:15
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sergmelikyanand why this is the issue17:15
ativelkovsergmelikyan: for glance plugin - yes17:15
ativelkov(but eventually it will get the dependency on murano anyways)17:15
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ativelkovkzaitsev_mb: I don't know, we need to investigate other projects which use stevedore-based plugins17:16
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ativelkovI believe that this may make sense at least for the murano plugins (class and package type extensions)17:17
kzaitsev_mbsearchlight does use stevedore, but i don't see setup.cfg of individual plugins17:17
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ativelkovsince they have to be deployed in the same env with murano anyway17:17
kzaitsev_mbgiven two options you suggested — I'd merge the setup.cfgs17:18
ativelkovkzaitsev_mb: they have all their plugins in their main setup.cfg17:18
ativelkovhttps://github.com/openstack/searchlight/blob/master/setup.cfg#L28-L3317:18
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kzaitsev_mboh, right, they do17:18
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ativelkovsergmelikyan: according to iyozhikov the reason for the issue is somewhere in the way they do packaging17:19
sergmelikyanativelkov: this is in the case when plugins are essentially are part of the solutions17:19
ativelkovsergmelikyan: right, and that's true for all our plugins except glance's artifact type17:19
sergmelikyanbut what about contrib plugins which are not supposed to be a part of the solution out of the box?17:19
kzaitsev_mbas release liaison for mitaka I kind of don't like the idea of managing 1 more repo =) so don't count on me supporting that idea =)17:20
sergmelikyanativelkov: I would say vice versa17:20
ativelkovsergmelikyan: nope. Murano type and package type plugins are part of murano17:20
sergmelikyanativelkov: not always, there are not essential part17:20
ativelkovglance artifact type is part of glance. But is placed in murano17:20
ativelkovneither are searchlite index backends - they are optional17:21
sergmelikyanativelkov: but when it will get dependency to the murano...17:21
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ativelkovso yeah, I don't have any solution for now17:21
ativelkovjust wanted some input from you guys17:21
kzaitsev_mbI believe we should take a look at other projects that use stevedore =) there must be plenty17:22
sergmelikyanI don't have a strong opinion right now... I don't like neither option17:22
kzaitsev_mbwe've seen searchlight, probably there would be others17:22
kzaitsev_mband probably ask them why they chose what they chose17:23
kzaitsev_mbmaybe there would be something we don't see right away17:23
sergmelikyanmaybe... and there are also few things to consider17:23
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sergmelikyannumber of plugin kinds that we have17:24
sergmelikyanand how they are tied to the Murano itself17:24
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sergmelikyanbecause option of joining setup.cfg implies essentially making this plugin part of Murano17:25
ativelkovwell, we may also ask the glance team about the idea of storing all the artifact types code in glance. For core and big-tent projects, of course17:26
kzaitsev_mbyou mean murano plugins?17:26
kzaitsev_mbnot the glare-murano plugin, but murano plugins. I believe we don't have any official ones right now. Are we planning to do that?17:27
ativelkovkzaitsev_mb: we do17:27
ativelkovat some point we want to make the core library a plugin17:27
kzaitsev_mbativelkov: where is it then?17:28
ativelkovwhich will include the pythonic part17:28
kzaitsev_mboh right17:28
kzaitsev_mbcloudify and heat are now pluggable17:28
kzaitsev_mbduh17:28
ativelkovhowever, that's a different story, since we want to be able to release it independently from murano17:28
kzaitsev_mbhaving a separate repo won17:28
sergmelikyankzaitsev_mb: ?17:29
kzaitsev_mbwon't help though, but would rather harm IMO17:29
ativelkovwhile having it in the same setup.cfg does not allow to do this independent releases17:29
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kzaitsev_mbsince we have a lot of plugins17:29
ativelkovkzaitsev_mb: does heat use stevedore? The last time I checked, they were just loading the python modules from files on disk, without registering them in python env17:29
kzaitsev_mbativelkov: https://github.com/openstack/heat/blob/master/requirements.txt#L5817:30
kzaitsev_mbdon't know why they use it or what for, but they do17:30
kzaitsev_mbobviously I'm not a heat expert )17:31
ativelkovhttps://github.com/openstack/heat/tree/master/contrib/heat_docker17:31
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ativelkovhere they have an independent setup.cfg17:31
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sergmelikyanyep17:32
ativelkov(although this does not look like a stevedore plugin, since it does not have entry-points in its cfg)17:32
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ativelkovWell, what about sending a question to the ML asking for stevedore best practices here?17:33
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sergmelikyanativelkov: we need to solidify our use-cases and so on... then I guess we will find solution17:34
Nikolay_Stativelkov: +117:34
sergmelikyanativelkov: can you gather this in some etherpad/e-mail first?17:34
ativelkovok, will do17:34
ativelkov#action ativelkov to summarize the plugin usage questions in etherpad17:34
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ativelkovAnything else?17:37
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sergmelikyanLooks like no :)17:57
sergmelikyan#endmeeting17:57
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"17:57
openstackMeeting ended Tue Dec 15 17:57:57 2015 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)17:57
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/murano/2015/murano.2015-12-15-17.00.html17:58
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/murano/2015/murano.2015-12-15-17.00.txt17:58
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/murano/2015/murano.2015-12-15-17.00.log.html17:58
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gibi#startmeeting nova notification20:00
openstackMeeting started Tue Dec 15 20:00:02 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is gibi. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.20:00
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.20:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: nova notification)"20:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'nova_notification'20:00
gibihello everyone! :)20:00
cdento/20:00
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gibilet's wait a minute or two for the others20:01
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rlrossitgibi: made it!20:04
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rlrossit(my bad)20:04
gibino problem20:04
gibiI think we can start now20:04
gibi#topic open reviews20:04
*** openstack changes topic to "open reviews (Meeting topic: nova notification)"20:04
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gibiso the short status is that the two basic infra patches are ready20:05
gibiand I feel that we are close with the service-status-notification as well20:05
rlrossitthe first service one has my +1 now too20:05
gibirlrossit: thanks for the reviews!20:05
rlrossitI just have the json samples one left20:05
rlrossitno prob!20:05
rlrossitshould we somehow be broadcasting these changes to the cores to get them to start looking at them?20:06
gibiI talked to john20:06
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gibibit it doesn't have too much effect20:06
gibiI will approach bauzas tomorrow20:07
rlrossitsounds good20:07
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bauzasmmm?20:07
rlrossityou should probably add something to the nova meeting agenda too20:07
gibi#action gibi to add a nova meeting topic to advertise the ready reviews20:07
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gibibauzas: you where interested once in the versioned notification work so I would like to ask you some review cycles as we have some patches ready and reviewed by the subteam20:08
rlrossit"the subteam" == rlrossit :)20:09
gibiyes :)20:09
gibibut still :)20:09
bauzasgibi: sure20:09
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* cdent is trying to participate but slow to come up to speed20:10
gibibauzas: thanks, the chain starts here https://review.openstack.org/#/c/247024/1820:10
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gibicdent: no problem, I think as soon as we have the basic things in place it will be easier to participat and split the work20:11
rlrossitcdent: If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe :)20:11
cdent:)20:11
* gibi has some pie in the fridge...20:11
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gibithe next step is to add a devref to the chain describing how to add / transform notifications to the new format20:13
gibias we discussed last week20:13
gibiI have some backlog so I might be able to publish a draft this week20:14
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gibibtw I have to respin the whole chain due to a gate bug fixed in https://review.openstack.org/#/c/258001/20:15
rlrossitnooooooooo20:15
rlrossitmeh, free +1's I guess ;)20:15
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rlrossitalso thanks, I was wondering why my py27 failed on the patch I just put up...20:16
gibiI see you hit the same bug today with your o.vo cleanup in nova :)20:16
rlrossit^ yup20:16
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gibilogstash is awsome :)20:16
gibiawesome20:16
gibido we have anything else about the reviews?20:17
rlrossitnope20:17
gibithen I have an extra topic for today :)20:17
gibi#topic meeting during vacation period20:17
*** openstack changes topic to "meeting during vacation period (Meeting topic: nova notification)"20:17
cdentThe precendent I've witnessed so far is skip the next two20:18
gibifrom end of this week I go for some vacation20:19
rlrossitI am out for the rest of the year starting Thursday afternoon (US time)20:19
rlrossitI've got loads of vacation to use up still :)20:19
gibiI guess then it is pointless to push for a meeting in the next two weeks20:20
rlrossitagreed20:20
rlrossitI'm going to try to have an opinion on everything open before I leave20:20
gibicdent: is it OK to you to skip the next two as well?20:20
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cdentyes20:20
gibirlrossit: and I will try to close all the issues before I leave :)20:21
rlrossitI'm inevitably going to get bored at my parents' so I may check on patches over the vacation if something new pops up20:21
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rlrossit(which also eases the floodgates of work starting January 4)20:21
* cdent won't be on proper vacation so will try to take advantage of the slow down20:21
gibi#agreed next two notification subteam meeting will be skipped due to vacation next meeting will be held on 5th of January20:21
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gibirlrossit: similar thing might happen with me as well during vacation days20:22
gibiI think we can move to our last topic today20:23
gibi#topic open discussion20:23
*** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: nova notification)"20:23
gibiI have nothing extra. Do you have anything to share?20:24
rlrossitI'm done20:24
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gibithen I would like to thank you all of your support this year! Let's go and get some rest.20:26
cdent\o/20:26
rlrossitwoo!20:27
gibi#endmeeting20:27
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*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"20:27
openstackMeeting ended Tue Dec 15 20:27:25 2015 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)20:27
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova_notification/2015/nova_notification.2015-12-15-20.00.html20:27
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova_notification/2015/nova_notification.2015-12-15-20.00.txt20:27
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova_notification/2015/nova_notification.2015-12-15-20.00.log.html20:27
gibi:)20:27
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