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| -openstackstatus- NOTICE: gerrit has been restarted to restore event streaming. any change events missed by zuul (between 10:56 and 11:37 utc) will need to be rechecked or have new approval votes set | 11:39 | |
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| bpb | #openstack-meeting | 15:55 |
|---|---|---|
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| dhellmann | #startmeeting oslo | 16:02 |
| openstack | Meeting started Mon Apr 6 16:02:11 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is dhellmann. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 16:02 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 16:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: oslo)" | 16:02 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'oslo' | 16:02 |
| dhellmann | sorry, local distraction | 16:02 |
| harlowja_at_home | np | 16:02 |
| jungleboyj | :-) | 16:02 |
| dims | o/ | 16:02 |
| dhellmann | our agenda: | 16:02 |
| dhellmann | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/Oslo | 16:02 |
| dhellmann | courtesy ping for jd__, dims, bnemec, flaper87, harlowja, viktors, rpodolyaka, zzzeek, sileht, kgiusti, dansmith | 16:02 |
| dhellmann | courtesy ping for redrobot, jungleboyj, zhiyan, therve, amotoki, GheRivero, bknudson, ihrachyshka, jogo, dougwig, sreshetnyak, amrith | 16:02 |
| rpodolyaka | o/ | 16:02 |
| kgiusti | o/ | 16:02 |
| bknudson | hi | 16:02 |
| ozamiatin_ | o/ | 16:02 |
| zzzeek | o/ | 16:02 |
| bnemec | o/ | 16:02 |
| jecarey | o/ | 16:02 |
| harlowja_at_home | yo yo | 16:02 |
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| jungleboyj | o/ | 16:03 |
| dhellmann | good turnout today :-) | 16:03 |
| dougwig | o/ | 16:03 |
| dhellmann | #topic Review action items from previous meeting | 16:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Review action items from previous meeting (Meeting topic: oslo)" | 16:03 | |
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| dhellmann | thanks to dims for running the meeting last week | 16:03 |
| dhellmann | looks like there were 2 actions: | 16:03 |
| dhellmann | #info dims to find schedule for session planning | 16:03 |
| dhellmann | #info zzzeek to add oslo.db enginefacade to nova agenda - https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/liberty-nova-summit-ideas | 16:04 |
| dhellmann | dims: did you see ttx's email to the list about session planning? | 16:04 |
| dhellmann | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2015-April/060503.html | 16:04 |
| dims | thanks dhellmann | 16:04 |
| dhellmann | there's a wiki page mentioned there, https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Summit/Planning | 16:05 |
| dhellmann | and I added our etherpad to that page today | 16:05 |
| dhellmann | I see the enginefacade mentioned on line 17 of the nova etherpad, so I think both items are done | 16:05 |
| dims | dhellmann: do they ask us how many slots we need? | 16:05 |
| dhellmann | dims: ages ago, when we first started putting our list together | 16:05 |
| dims | :) | 16:06 |
| dhellmann | unfortunately our list grew beyond the number of slots at the time, which was an optimistic number. We can negotiate with ttx to see how many we can get | 16:06 |
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| harlowja_at_home | quotas would be real nice to talk about (as a group/community) | 16:07 |
| dhellmann | harlowja_at_home: at this point I think the consensus is we need a quota project, rather than a lib, because there's a database component | 16:07 |
| dims | harlowja_at_home: nova folks had a lot of feedback from ops folks recently about quota issues | 16:07 |
| harlowja_at_home | ya :) | 16:08 |
| dhellmann | I agree it would be good to discuss, though. Maybe we can find a way to set up a new project slot | 16:08 |
| bknudson | where are quotas implemented now? | 16:08 |
| harlowja_at_home | well i'm not so much concerned about it technically honestly; it just requires a crap ton of cooridation | 16:08 |
| bknudson | people seem to think keystone should own it for whatever reason. | 16:08 |
| dhellmann | harlowja_at_home: yeah, I just meant it wasn't going to be an oslo problem :-) | 16:08 |
| harlowja_at_home | ^ and the coordination/reviews/chopping up code is the hardest part (not imho the solution) | 16:08 |
| dims | bknudson: nova has an impl | 16:08 |
| harlowja_at_home | dhellmann, agreed ; it can't really be an oslo thing | 16:08 |
| dhellmann | cool, so let's move on then | 16:09 |
| dhellmann | #topic PTL election | 16:09 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "PTL election (Meeting topic: oslo)" | 16:09 | |
| harlowja_at_home | bknudson, at this point i'd rather anyone own it and there be a common API.... (i don't care anymore if its keystone, boson, blahblah project) | 16:09 |
| dhellmann | nominations are now open for PTL election | 16:09 |
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| dhellmann | I sent email announcing that I'm not running | 16:09 |
| dhellmann | I saw a nomination from dims | 16:09 |
| harlowja_at_home | and the world shed a tear | 16:09 |
| jungleboyj | dhellmann: Whaaaat!?! | 16:10 |
| harlowja_at_home | and jungleboyj shed a tear | 16:10 |
| dhellmann | I think nominations end this week, let me find the date | 16:10 |
| jungleboyj | :-) | 16:10 |
| dhellmann | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2015-April/060472.html | 16:10 |
| dhellmann | jungleboyj: I'm not going anywhere, but I want to give others a chance to lead | 16:10 |
| dhellmann | yep, nominations are open until the 9th | 16:10 |
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| harlowja_at_home | gooooo dims :) | 16:11 |
| jungleboyj | dhellmann: Cool. | 16:11 |
| harlowja_at_home | u da man | 16:11 |
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| dhellmann | yep, I have no doubt dims will do a great job | 16:12 |
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| jungleboyj | Agreed. | 16:12 |
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| dims | thanks dhellmann harlowja_at_home jungleboyj | 16:12 |
| harlowja_at_home | :) | 16:12 |
| dhellmann | #topic Red flags for/from liaisons | 16:13 |
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| *** openstack changes topic to "Red flags for/from liaisons (Meeting topic: oslo)" | 16:13 | |
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| dhellmann | I've been out for about a week, but didn't see any major issues come up while I was gone. Did I miss anything? :-) | 16:13 |
| bknudson | None for keystone. | 16:13 |
| * jungleboyj doesn't have anything right now. | 16:13 | |
| harlowja_at_home | not afaik | 16:13 |
| bknudson | maybe we need a library for lazy imports | 16:14 |
| bknudson | everyone's complaining about it. | 16:14 |
| jungleboyj | I am going to have to think more about Liberty at this point for Cinder. | 16:14 |
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| harlowja_at_home | bknudson, i start wonder if its just a python upstream issue though; idk | 16:14 |
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| harlowja_at_home | they said the same stuff about php (and it has a bunch of caching now to be better at it) | 16:15 |
| dhellmann | bknudson: maybe we should just be smarter about where we put the imports in our code? | 16:15 |
| dhellmann | harlowja_at_home: python caches imports, too, so I think these are cases where we're importing code that is never actually used | 16:15 |
| dhellmann | *expensive* code -- common stuff like stdlib modules doesn't really matter | 16:15 |
| harlowja_at_home | dhellmann, k; then i guess its just smarter usage | 16:15 |
| dhellmann | jungleboyj: understandable | 16:15 |
| bknudson | dhellmann: then it becomes an issue of code readability if you're spreading imports all over rather than at the top of the file. | 16:16 |
| dhellmann | harlowja_at_home: yeah, it would be interesting to see how far we can get with that approach | 16:16 |
| dhellmann | bknudson: true | 16:16 |
| bknudson | I looked for a lazy import lib and didn't see anything that looked good. | 16:16 |
| * stevemar sneaks in late | 16:17 | |
| dhellmann | bknudson: I'm reluctant to do any hacking on such a fundamental part of python's behavior, but I'm curious to see what you have in mind | 16:17 |
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| dims | bknudson: only when we know we have a lot of issues in certain code paths...like rootwrap - https://review.openstack.org/#/c/170851/ | 16:18 |
| dims | right? | 16:18 |
| bknudson | we've got a LazyImporter now in keystoneclient: http://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack/python-keystoneclient/tree/keystoneclient/__init__.py#n52 | 16:18 |
| bknudson | sure, but how do you know when there's issues and how do you ensure that they don't come back accidentally? | 16:19 |
| bknudson | can we write tests for import time? | 16:19 |
| harlowja_at_home | doesn't python 3 have a whole bunch of improvements to the importer (or i thought it did); hmmm maybe soem of that got backported? | 16:19 |
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| dhellmann | harlowja_at_home: there were changes/improvements but afaik they were not backported | 16:19 |
| dims | bknudson: true | 16:19 |
| harlowja_at_home | dhellmann, k | 16:19 |
| bknudson | seems like it's really easy to reintroduce a slow import. | 16:20 |
| dhellmann | bknudson: performance tests can look at things like startup time, and the work boris-42 and dims did exposed the issue in rootwrap | 16:20 |
| dhellmann | so that's something to keep thinking about, but I don't think we're going to solve it today | 16:21 |
| dhellmann | #topic Ongoing work & Review priorities | 16:21 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Ongoing work & Review priorities (Meeting topic: oslo)" | 16:21 | |
| dhellmann | I backported the performance fix in oslo.policy: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/170863/ | 16:21 |
| dhellmann | That should only need one other core reviewer, as a backport | 16:21 |
| stevemar | dhellmann, thanks for that | 16:22 |
| dhellmann | It looks like there was some discussion of backports last week while I was out. Do we have others we need to propose? Do we have anything that needs to be released? | 16:22 |
| bknudson | I don't have +2 on stable branches. | 16:22 |
| dhellmann | stevemar: np at all | 16:22 |
| dhellmann | bknudson: I think there's a separate stable maint team for oslo, but not per library. I'll fix that for policy. | 16:23 |
| dhellmann | #action dhellmann set up stable-maint teams for oslo repos, esp. policy | 16:23 |
| dhellmann | unless we want to just add people to the existing team, I guess? | 16:23 |
| bknudson | who does the release of stable olso.policy? | 16:24 |
| dhellmann | I can do that, when we're ready | 16:24 |
| dhellmann | I think anyone who can already do releases can release from any branch | 16:24 |
| stevemar | dhellmann, yes, that's correct | 16:25 |
| stevemar | actually... | 16:25 |
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| dhellmann | dims, sileht: did we have any messaging backports? I'm thinking of that heartbeat fix | 16:26 |
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| dhellmann | stevemar: I know I can do them, because I have, but I'm on all the acl lists so I don't know which lets me do it :-) | 16:26 |
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| stevemar | looks like there are individual release groups for each project | 16:26 |
| dhellmann | ah, yes, we did set that up for a lot of the libs | 16:27 |
| dhellmann | not the stable teams, though | 16:27 |
| dims | dhellmann: i think we released everything we needed (cc sileht) | 16:27 |
| dhellmann | dims: great! | 16:27 |
| dims | dhellmann: there was a log issue with a review this morning, we may want that one | 16:27 |
| dims | s/with/in/ | 16:28 |
| dhellmann | dims: ok, I missed that, do you have a link handy? | 16:28 |
| dims | digging | 16:28 |
| dims | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/170856/ | 16:28 |
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| dhellmann | for the stable maint issue, we could fix that a couple of ways - we could have separate stable teams for libs where we have separate review teams; we could add everyone to the global stable team for oslo and trust them to use that carefully; or we could make the core team for each lib the same as the stable team - thoughts? | 16:29 |
| dhellmann | the 3rd option is simplest, but I don't have an issue with adding everyone to the global team if the rest of the group agrees | 16:30 |
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| dims | 2nd seems good to me dhellmann, whoever is responsible for master is responsible from stable. right? | 16:30 |
| dhellmann | dims: we should probably just change the format string to use %s instead of removing the retry value entirely | 16:31 |
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| dims | dhellmann: +1 | 16:31 |
| dhellmann | dims: that sounds like option 3? | 16:31 |
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| dhellmann | 1 - separate stable teams for libs | 16:31 |
| dhellmann | 2 - add everyone to global oslo stable team | 16:31 |
| dhellmann | 3 - give core teams stable acls on libs (not using a separate team) | 16:32 |
| harlowja_at_home | hmmmm; up to u guys (all seem fine with me) | 16:32 |
| jungleboyj | I think 3 makes the most sense? | 16:32 |
| dims | i'd go with #3, simple to explain and understand | 16:32 |
| stevemar | 3 sounds the best | 16:32 |
| jungleboyj | Don't think separate stable teams are necessary. | 16:33 |
| dhellmann | ok, sounds good | 16:33 |
| stevemar | 1 seems like an overkill of 3 | 16:33 |
| dhellmann | #action dhellmann replace stable teams with review teams on oslo libs | 16:33 |
| dhellmann | stevemar: yeah, I was trying to be complete but I don't like that option | 16:33 |
| stevemar | and 2 seems like it'll cause overlap | 16:33 |
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| dhellmann | 2 just means we need more trust, but I'm not that worried about it | 16:34 |
| dhellmann | it does feel a bit weird to have +2 on the stable branch for a lib where you don't have +2 on master, though :-) | 16:34 |
| harlowja_at_home | we one big happy family right :-P | 16:34 |
| jungleboyj | Yeah, that doesn't make sense. | 16:34 |
| dhellmann | harlowja_at_home: ++ | 16:34 |
| dims | :) | 16:35 |
| harlowja_at_home | poppa dhellmann | 16:35 |
| harlowja_at_home | lol | 16:35 |
| dhellmann | harlowja_at_home: not for long! | 16:35 |
| dims | hahaha | 16:35 |
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| harlowja_at_home | poppa dims | 16:35 |
| harlowja_at_home | lol | 16:35 |
| harlowja_at_home | :) | 16:35 |
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| * harlowja_at_home no more fooling around, lol | 16:35 | |
| dhellmann | and I think markmc would be surprised to be called grandpa, so we should all remember to do that at the summit | 16:35 |
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| harlowja_at_home | lol | 16:35 |
| harlowja_at_home | or is it great-grandpa now/soon? | 16:36 |
| harlowja_at_home | and dhellmann is grandpa | 16:36 |
| harlowja_at_home | hmmm | 16:36 |
| dhellmann | heh | 16:36 |
| * dhellmann regrets bringing that up | 16:36 | |
| harlowja_at_home | lol | 16:36 |
| * dhellmann only responds to Uncle Doug | 16:36 | |
| jungleboyj | :-) | 16:36 |
| dhellmann | moving on, we already talked a bit about the next topic | 16:37 |
| dhellmann | #topic liberty planning | 16:37 |
| dhellmann | We've been collecting topics for the summit for a while. We have more than I think we'll have slots for, so we'll need to do some work to prioritize. | 16:37 |
| dhellmann | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/liberty-oslo-summit-planning | 16:37 |
| dhellmann | We also have a bunch of specs up for review, and we should start the discussion on those before the summit | 16:37 |
| dhellmann | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/q/project:openstack%2Foslo-specs+is:open,n,z | 16:37 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "liberty planning (Meeting topic: oslo)" | 16:37 | |
| dhellmann | it would be good to have some consensus about specs going into the summit, so we can at least identify the ones where we need more discussion | 16:37 |
| dhellmann | I know there's at least one spec that I think we probably don't need as a spec at all - the one on writing examples for the library docs - so we should keep that in mind, too | 16:38 |
| dhellmann | it's important to agree to plans, but let's try not to go overboard :-) | 16:38 |
| harlowja_at_home | :) | 16:39 |
| harlowja_at_home | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/169944/ could be something once i flush it out more | 16:39 |
| dhellmann | that's all from the formal agenda for this week | 16:40 |
| dhellmann | #topic open discussion | 16:40 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: oslo)" | 16:40 | |
| dhellmann | is anyone going to pycon? | 16:40 |
| harlowja_at_home | negative, some other guy from y! is though | 16:40 |
| harlowja_at_home | to much traveling :-P | 16:40 |
| bknudson | if you're going complain about import speed. | 16:40 |
| harlowja_at_home | although i should go one day to pycon | 16:40 |
| dhellmann | harlowja_at_home: next year it's in portland, so the same tz for you | 16:41 |
| harlowja_at_home | dhellmann, oh, that might be perfect then; not to far.... | 16:41 |
| * zzzeek missing pycon this year | 16:41 | |
| dhellmann | bknudson: I have a strong sense that the response will be "we can work on that in python 3" which won't help us for a while | 16:41 |
| harlowja_at_home | dhellmann, its yearly? or biyearly? | 16:41 |
| dhellmann | harlowja_at_home: it's held around the same time every year, in the same place 2 years in a row | 16:41 |
| harlowja_at_home | k | 16:41 |
| dhellmann | this is the 2nd year in montreal, and so the next 2 are portland | 16:42 |
| zzzeek | oh hey FYI SQLAlhcemy is almost ready for 1.0.0 final, in case anyone’s been testing… | 16:42 |
| harlowja_at_home | zzzeek, congrats! | 16:42 |
| dhellmann | zzzeek: nice! | 16:42 |
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| zzzeek | I do run it against a small subset of openstack test suites including all of oslo.db, parts of keystone, nova and neutron and so far so good | 16:42 |
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| bknudson | zzzeek: is 1.0.0 backwards compatible? | 16:42 |
| dhellmann | zzzeek: that's good to know, too | 16:43 |
| zzzeek | bknudson: ermmmm yesish | 16:43 |
| bknudson | it's capped: http://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack/requirements/tree/global-requirements.txt#n147 | 16:43 |
| bknudson | SQLAlchemy>=0.9.7,<=0.9.99 | 16:43 |
| harlowja_at_home | zzzeek, where we going to try that 'depends-on' stuff to try to see if we can get 1.0 tested in the gate (against the projects...) | 16:43 |
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| zzzeek | OK just so folks know I always put the big list of things that might be surprising in http://docs.sqlalchemy.org/en/latest/changelog/migration_10.html | 16:43 |
| harlowja_at_home | dims, i think was going to write that up or something, can't remember | 16:43 |
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| harlowja_at_home | ^ maybe that was for something else, ha | 16:44 |
| dims | harlowja_at_home: y, haven't done that yet | 16:44 |
| zzzeek | Right so, in the months ahead what would get that cap to move to 1.0.x ? | 16:44 |
| rpodolyaka | bulk operations in ORM \o/ | 16:44 |
| dhellmann | harlowja_at_home: for a requirements bump it should be enough to just update the global-requirements.txt file, right? | 16:44 |
| dhellmann | well, not for unit tests I guess | 16:44 |
| zzzeek | yeah I added a lot of stuff specific to waht OSP projecvts are looking for | 16:44 |
| harlowja_at_home | dhellmann, rights; dims had some process that i think might allow it to be tested (in unit tests) | 16:44 |
| harlowja_at_home | *without getting merged... | 16:44 |
| harlowja_at_home | ^ wizardry lol | 16:45 |
| bknudson | should be able to just do depends-on a change in nova or wherever. | 16:45 |
| dims | bknudson: right | 16:45 |
| bknudson | review in nova depends on the g-r change. | 16:45 |
| dhellmann | harlowja_at_home: yeah, submitting a patch by hand to the projects to update them with a depends-on of the g-r patch would work | 16:45 |
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| dhellmann | on a completely unrelated topic, I was thinking about the "you send too many release notices to the mailing list" problem. What do you all think about adding a blog to our specs repository, where anyone on the team can post progress reports and other notices? | 16:46 |
| harlowja_at_home | ohhh nice | 16:46 |
| dhellmann | we could make it a separate repo, too, but that felt like overkill | 16:46 |
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| dhellmann | I have a sphinx-based blogging tool that I could try to integrate with the repo | 16:47 |
| harlowja_at_home | can i write about taskflow and such there :-P | 16:47 |
| dims | dhellmann: or send 1 update every week? | 16:47 |
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| dims | +1 to blogs as well | 16:47 |
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| dhellmann | dims: yeah, my idea was for blog posts we would just let anyone approve them as long as the post showed up as being authored by them | 16:47 |
| bnemec | People want to know right away when we release, so I don't think weekly works. | 16:47 |
| dhellmann | so no "review" needed, we'd just piggy-back on the tool we already have | 16:48 |
| bnemec | +1 to release blog | 16:48 |
| dhellmann | bnemec: true | 16:48 |
| dims | bnemec: right | 16:48 |
| dims | dhellmann: was it a public complaint? | 16:48 |
| zzzeek | my concern about a “blog” is some folks will use it a lot and others not really use it or remember where it is, so it would be lopsided. couldnt the blog have an estalbished “curator” ? | 16:48 |
| dhellmann | dims: yeah, fungi mentioned it on the mailing list a couple of weeks ago | 16:48 |
| zzzeek | I can’t keep track of all the places I’m supposed to write things these days | 16:49 |
| bnemec | I wonder if we could work with infra to create an RSS feed of releases or something. | 16:49 |
| dhellmann | bnemec: yeah, this would be a team blog, and releases would only be one of the things we would talk about | 16:49 |
| stevemar | a tag would work, but i wonder what the intersection is between people using tags and people complaining about too much on the ML | 16:49 |
| dhellmann | progress reports on major initiatives might be another | 16:50 |
| dhellmann | probably not a lot of cat pictures, except around april 1 | 16:50 |
| bnemec | Aww, now we'll have to wait almost a whole year for cat pictures. ;-) | 16:50 |
| fungi | i don't recall mentioning it on the ml. though i do recall the thread | 16:50 |
| dhellmann | stevemar: that discussion, and a book I'm reading, made me think about this as an alternative communication tool. So it's not just about cutting down on mailing list traffic | 16:50 |
| bknudson | are the release notices only so that infra knows about it? | 16:50 |
| bknudson | if that's the case then maybe sent the email to them. | 16:50 |
| dhellmann | fungi: sorry, I thought that was you but maybe it was someone else | 16:51 |
| bknudson | or post in their irc channel | 16:51 |
| fungi | oh, well, i do recall replying that i like having release announcements published to a mailing list somewhere | 16:51 |
| harlowja_at_home | awww man no cat pictures, lol | 16:51 |
| bnemec | bknudson: No, it's also for people debugging problems in case we broke something with a new release. | 16:51 |
| dhellmann | bknudson: no, it's actually for all developers to know in case they see changes in behavior, and for our downstream packagers so they know there is a new version of something to package | 16:51 |
| dhellmann | bknudson: afaik, infra doesn't actually care about the releases :-) | 16:51 |
| fungi | expecially if release managers for projects are signing their release announcements and including names of git tags or checksums of tarballs or something | 16:52 |
| bknudson | I actually like the notices to -dev. | 16:52 |
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| * dims seconds bknudson | 16:52 | |
| harlowja_at_home | bknudson, would u say u are stoked? | 16:52 |
| harlowja_at_home | lol | 16:52 |
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| fungi | announcements to mailing lists are for the most part immutable (write once read many model) so it's hard to revise history | 16:52 |
| bknudson | harlowja: sometimes chuffed. | 16:52 |
| harlowja_at_home | ;) | 16:52 |
| fungi | though committing to a git repo sort of fits that requirement too | 16:52 |
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| bknudson | it would be neat if releases of libs was done in git... update the projects.yaml with the version # and commit hash and it's tagged automagically. | 16:53 |
| bknudson | then anyone could propose it. | 16:53 |
| harlowja_at_home | and then https://github.com/openstack-infra/release-tools/blob/master/release_notes.py gets activated and put somewhere | 16:53 |
| harlowja_at_home | that'd be neat | 16:54 |
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| dhellmann | bknudson: yeah, I would like that, too | 16:54 |
| dims | sounds like a larger discussion not specific to oslo? | 16:54 |
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| dhellmann | dims: right | 16:54 |
| harlowja_at_home | +1 | 16:54 |
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| bnemec | So did anyone actually object to the idea of an Oslo blog? | 16:56 |
| harlowja_at_home | not me, i'd like it; sounds sorta fun | 16:56 |
| dhellmann | I don't think so, but it sounded like we still want to post release messages to the ML | 16:56 |
| dims | bnemec: +1 to an Oslo blog | 16:56 |
| dims | but +1 to post release messages to ML as well | 16:56 |
| bknudson | I don't follow a lot of blogs so don't know how easy it is. | 16:57 |
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| * zzzeek is +1 to more information distribution channels but +0 to more information “production” channels | 16:57 | |
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| harlowja_at_home | having the blog be just another repo that we upload RST file to would be cool | 16:57 |
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| dims | bknudson: http://planet.openstack.org/ for example? | 16:57 |
| harlowja_at_home | *or post for review, not upload... | 16:57 |
| bnemec | I'm fine with that. I thought the mailing list discussion basically concluded that we would keep the ML announcements anyway. | 16:58 |
| dhellmann | harlowja_at_home: yeah, that's how I thought we'd do it, using tinkerer. I'll propose the changes we'll need to the specs repo | 16:58 |
| harlowja_at_home | dhellmann, nice | 16:58 |
| dhellmann | bnemec: it did | 16:58 |
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| dhellmann | bnemec: that was just one of the triggers that made me think we might want to look at alternative tools | 16:59 |
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| dhellmann | ok, we're out of time | 17:00 |
| dhellmann | thanks everyone | 17:00 |
| dhellmann | #endmeeting | 17:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 17:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Mon Apr 6 17:00:09 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 17:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/oslo/2015/oslo.2015-04-06-16.02.html | 17:00 |
| zzzeek | bazing | 17:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/oslo/2015/oslo.2015-04-06-16.02.txt | 17:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/oslo/2015/oslo.2015-04-06-16.02.log.html | 17:00 |
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| davidlenwell | #startmeeting refstack | 17:58 |
| openstack | Meeting started Mon Apr 6 17:58:18 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is davidlenwell. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 17:58 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 17:58 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: refstack)" | 17:58 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'refstack' | 17:58 |
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| davidlenwell | agenda.. vancouver goals, design summit session planning, pending reviews, open discussion | 18:01 |
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| davidlenwell | ending meeting for lack of attendance .. | 18:16 |
| davidlenwell | #endmeeting | 18:16 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 18:16 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Mon Apr 6 18:16:54 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 18:16 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/refstack/2015/refstack.2015-04-06-17.58.html | 18:16 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/refstack/2015/refstack.2015-04-06-17.58.txt | 18:16 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/refstack/2015/refstack.2015-04-06-17.58.log.html | 18:17 |
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| catherineD | #startmeeting refstack | 19:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Mon Apr 6 19:00:40 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is catherineD. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 19:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 19:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: refstack)" | 19:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'refstack' | 19:00 |
| hogepodge | o/ | 19:00 |
| davidlenwell | o/ | 19:00 |
| catherineD | roll call | 19:00 |
| pvaneck | o/ | 19:00 |
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| catherineD | Today's agenda: 1) recap goals for Vancouver 2) design session planning 3) plan for upgrading refstack-client to latest tempest 4) pending review 5) open discussion | 19:01 |
| hockeynut | o/ | 19:02 |
| catherineD | #topic recap goals for Vancouver | 19:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "recap goals for Vancouver (Meeting topic: refstack)" | 19:02 | |
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| vladiskuz|2 | o/ | 19:02 |
| catherineD | Please look at the action items at the bottom in https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/refstack_f2f_feb_2015 | 19:03 |
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| catherineD | our goal is being able to demo refstack.net (or refstacl.org) server with test content ... | 19:04 |
| sslypushenko__ | o/ | 19:04 |
| Rockyg | o/ | 19:04 |
| sslypushenko__ | catherineD: +! | 19:04 |
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| catherineD | vladiskuz|2: 's API was merged last week .. | 19:04 |
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| vladiskuz|2 | catherineD: thx! it's good :) | 19:05 |
| catherineD | thx vladiskuz|2: now pvaneck: is workign on the presentation layer ... pvaneck: any update? | 19:05 |
| pvaneck | yes, I have created the scaffolding for the site in angular | 19:06 |
| hogepodge | John Oliver interviewed Edward Snowden. Amazing. | 19:06 |
| sslypushenko__ | pvaneck Sounds greate! | 19:07 |
| pvaneck | working on getting it hosted on github pages for now | 19:07 |
| davidlenwell | hogepodge: yeah .. that was very entertaining | 19:07 |
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| hogepodge | ugh, wrong room. Sorry. :-( | 19:07 |
| pvaneck | in person? | 19:07 |
| davidlenwell | yes .. in person | 19:07 |
| hogepodge | sincere apologies | 19:07 |
| pvaneck | haha | 19:07 |
| catherineD | pvanpvaneck: thx ... Let us know when it is up so we can review .. | 19:08 |
| vladiskuz|2 | pvaneck: can you share you results with us? because I working on profile and auth with angular | 19:08 |
| catherineD | sslypushenko__: vladiskuz|2: are working on the signed API to upload data ..sslypushenko__: has a patch that I will test today ... | 19:08 |
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| pvaneck | http://pvaneck.github.io is what I have for now, was currently testing out displaying capabilities using angular | 19:09 |
| sslypushenko__ | catherineD: I think upload is almost finished... Need a little polish on client side | 19:09 |
| pvaneck | still needs work | 19:10 |
| pvaneck | and content i guess | 19:10 |
| sslypushenko__ | pvaneck: It is really good start! | 19:10 |
| pvaneck | would like if the refstack.net could be updated with the lasted api | 19:11 |
| vladiskuz|2 | pvaneck: looks good! | 19:11 |
| pvaneck | latest* | 19:11 |
| catherineD | pvaneck: Let us know when you are ready ... we can have a phone call so you can share what you have learned to jump start us ... so our team does not need to learn from scratch .. | 19:11 |
| catherineD | I think all status looks good ... | 19:11 |
| catherineD | we need to talk about where to host the refstack server ... | 19:12 |
| catherineD | right now it is hosted privately by David ... | 19:12 |
| davidlenwell | I'd like to follow up with clee and see if we can get some donated isntances from dreamhost | 19:12 |
| Rockyg | I think we need to get openstack-infra involved. They need to be the ultimate hosts. | 19:12 |
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| davidlenwell | Rockyg: I am not sure that will be an option for at least another 6 months | 19:13 |
| sslypushenko__ | Rockyg +1 | 19:13 |
| davidlenwell | we need to host it some place neutral until then | 19:13 |
| catherineD | davidlenwell: thx ... Let's us revisit this topic next week ... | 19:13 |
| davidlenwell | sounds good | 19:14 |
| catherineD | Rockyg: +1 ... I think vendor would like it to host on OpenStack eventually ... | 19:14 |
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| davidlenwell | sure .. thats always been the ultimate goal | 19:14 |
| catherineD | any other thoughts on this topic? | 19:14 |
| catherineD | #agreed revisit location to host refstack server in the next IRC meeting | 19:15 |
| catherineD | alright | 19:15 |
| davidlenwell | sounds good | 19:15 |
| catherineD | #topic design session planning | 19:15 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "design session planning (Meeting topic: refstack)" | 19:15 | |
| davidlenwell | we are supposed to be putting thoughts here.. https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/refstack-qa-vancouver-design-session | 19:16 |
| davidlenwell | however as many of you know.. I've been on vacation since last week .. so I have not had the time to leave my thoughts here | 19:16 |
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| catherineD | davidlenwell: ya :-( | 19:16 |
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| catherineD | from IBM , we do not have our aprroved list to summit yet ... so we do not know ... | 19:18 |
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| catherineD | I know davidlenwell: hogepodge: will be at the summit ... who else? | 19:18 |
| davidlenwell | I'm sure rob and Rockyg will be there .. | 19:19 |
| catherineD | sslypushenko__: how about you? | 19:19 |
| sslypushenko__ | No, I'm not planning | 19:20 |
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| catherineD | How about Vladiskuz? | 19:20 |
| Rockyg | yup. I'll be there. | 19:20 |
| vladiskuz|3 | catherineD: I'm not planning too | 19:21 |
| catherineD | oh | 19:21 |
| catherineD | I guess we will let people to update https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/refstack-qa-vancouver-design-session .. | 19:21 |
| sslypushenko__ | Too far away | 19:22 |
| catherineD | about a month .. | 19:22 |
| sslypushenko__ | I meant in miles) | 19:22 |
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| hogepodge | I'd like for us to have a session that will make it possible for the folks who can't attend to somehow conference in. | 19:23 |
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| catherineD | hogepodge: +1 | 19:24 |
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| sslypushenko__ | It will be great | 19:24 |
| catherineD | #agreed refstack team members will update https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/refstack-qa-vancouver-design-session for design session idea/topic | 19:25 |
| catherineD | #topic plan for upgrading refstack-client to latest tempest | 19:25 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "plan for upgrading refstack-client to latest tempest (Meeting topic: refstack)" | 19:25 | |
| catherineD | refstack-client is now at tag-3 ... we need to plan for an update to the latest tempest ... | 19:26 |
| catherineD | question: do we wait for tag-4? | 19:26 |
| davidlenwell | I think we should | 19:26 |
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| catherineD | I think tag-4 will be one week after Vancouver ... | 19:27 |
| catherineD | any other opinion? | 19:28 |
| Rockyg | Don't we need to support both? | 19:28 |
| sslypushenko__ | Latest? May be we should pick some commit which is close to date of latest capabilities approval? | 19:28 |
| mtreinish | catherineD: I'll push it soon after the Kilo release | 19:28 |
| davidlenwell | with uuid's on tests drifting between versions won't be as painful | 19:28 |
| catherineD | mtreinish: thx you very much! That would help! | 19:28 |
| sslypushenko__ | davidlenwell: Unfortunately - it will | 19:29 |
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| sslypushenko__ | Current implementation of uuids id not fits perfectly to refstack needs | 19:29 |
| davidlenwell | sslypushenko__: can you elaborate ? | 19:29 |
| mtreinish | catherineD: I sometimes wait for a last min patch to fix something before pushing the tag, but only if it's queued up to land soon after the release. So I expect it would be within a week of the kilo release | 19:30 |
| catherineD | Rockyg: with branchless, whatever future tag should be backward competible...so we only need to test with one tag release | 19:30 |
| davidlenwell | I think waiting until the new tag is the way to go | 19:31 |
| Rockyg | catherineD: Well, for users, maybe, but I think the project should test against multiple tags. At least the latest two. | 19:31 |
| sslypushenko__ | davidlenwell: You can find more info here: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/165921/ | 19:31 |
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| davidlenwell | sslypushenko__: I will review this and we can discuss later | 19:31 |
| sslypushenko__ | Sure... Join to discussion in review) | 19:32 |
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| davidlenwell | will do | 19:32 |
| hogepodge | mtreinish: sslypushenko__ I left a comment on the patch, I think tagging classes would fix everything and keep compatibility. | 19:32 |
| hogepodge | also, if refactoring is happening, tag for tempest should match test names. | 19:33 |
| hogepodge | 2015.03 is a month old now, and 2015.04 was approved | 19:33 |
| hogepodge | Board meeting last week. | 19:33 |
| hogepodge | 2015.05 to be voted on in vanvouver. | 19:33 |
| catherineD | Rockyg: we will need to discuss about that .. rightnow at installation time refstack-client install a certain tag (tag-3 for now)... so test results will be stable ... | 19:34 |
| hogepodge | tag-3 will fail tests because of recent patches. | 19:34 |
| sslypushenko__ | hogepodge: mtreinish: I will propose next patch with uuid pairs soon | 19:34 |
| Rockyg | OK. Also, hogepodge: +1 on tagging classes | 19:34 |
| catherineD | so we agree to use tag-4, right? anyone disagree .. | 19:35 |
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| catherineD | #agreed upgrade refstack-client to tag-4 when it becomes available .. | 19:36 |
| davidlenwell | So you are suggesting we use tag 4 before its offical release? | 19:36 |
| sslypushenko__ | catherineD agreed | 19:36 |
| catherineD | davidlenwell: only when it is official release .. | 19:37 |
| davidlenwell | okay .. then I agree | 19:37 |
| catherineD | hogepodge: how about you? | 19:37 |
| hogepodge | I would use whatever is tempest head as of now, but it's your call. | 19:39 |
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| davidlenwell | until we have complete uuid I'd avoid using trunk | 19:40 |
| Rockyg | If tag-3 is already a problem, I would thing just top of master would be the right place at the moment. | 19:40 |
| davidlenwell | once we do then I want trunk | 19:40 |
| catherineD | hogepodge: since there are constant changes in tempest head ... the idea is to stabalize the test system itself ...so we think it would be better that all interops test are tested with same release .. | 19:40 |
| hogepodge | tag-3 is hopelessly broken for our use case | 19:40 |
| hogepodge | trunk isn't. | 19:40 |
| hogepodge | git hash, uuid, test name, all uniquely identify a test. But again, your call. For defcore we're allowing trunk right now for test results | 19:41 |
| catherineD | that is why we need to upgrade ... we know tag-3 needed upgrade ... the question here is to what? | 19:41 |
| davidlenwell | hogepodge: is suggesting trunk | 19:42 |
| davidlenwell | as long as we aren't still seeing a lot of path changes I don't have an issue with using trunk | 19:42 |
| hogepodge | I would use 57ae3795 | 19:42 |
| catherineD | that mean the test system itself is not fixed ... | 19:42 |
| catherineD | so I guess we do not agree to wait until tag-4? | 19:42 |
| hogepodge | It's not my call. | 19:43 |
| davidlenwell | wel using a specific git hash is the same as using a tag as far as I am concerned | 19:43 |
| davidlenwell | if using 57ae3795 is more useful for defcore then lets use it until tag4 is done or uuid is finished | 19:43 |
| catherineD | hogepodge: I see that you are a user of refstack ... since you run test with vendors. | 19:43 |
| Rockyg | tag-4 will happen before Vancouver, but not for another few weeks. can we afford to wait? | 19:43 |
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| davidlenwell | we want all incoming data to be useful for defcore | 19:43 |
| catherineD | davidlenwell: agree ... | 19:44 |
| davidlenwell | if we are still onboarding testers before the summit then we should probably use what defcore is suggesting | 19:44 |
| hogepodge | catherineD: I've been giving this (or a variant of it) to vendors for testing. https://review.openstack.org/#/c/167620/1/2015.03/2015.03.required.txt,cm | 19:44 |
| catherineD | and what tempest realease will the vendor tested that with? head? | 19:45 |
| hogepodge | Yes, because right now head works. tag-3 does not. | 19:45 |
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| hogepodge | (with flagged caveats) | 19:46 |
| catherineD | how do we guarantee that the test path will not change? | 19:46 |
| davidlenwell | I vote we go with hogepodge recomendations on this issue | 19:46 |
| catherineD | from the tests in https://review.openstack.org/#/c/167620/1/2015.03/2015.03.required.txt,cm | 19:47 |
| hogepodge | We don't. If the test path changes I'll give them a new file, traced with the UUID. I can also pin to a git hash from when before it changed. | 19:47 |
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| Rockyg | hogepodge: thanks for keeping up on this. Keeping the vendors testing is important... | 19:48 |
| davidlenwell | I think our first priority right now is to be useful to defcore .. if the tag we insist on using isn't useful to them we kinda have a problem.. we can worry about making the data more useful over long term once we finish uuid .. for now lets focus on making sure defcore has what it needs | 19:48 |
| catherineD | so I guess what we agree on now is to use tempest head? | 19:49 |
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| davidlenwell | yes .. I think so | 19:49 |
| catherineD | ok | 19:49 |
| davidlenwell | we need to follow through on uuid so that we can insure that our data is meaningful over time | 19:49 |
| catherineD | I do I retrack the last agreed statement that I typed in because it is no longer true .. | 19:49 |
| davidlenwell | just make anew one that says that | 19:50 |
| catherineD | davidlenwell: I agreed there is no point for refstack to deviate from what the vendor is using ... | 19:50 |
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| catherineD | it would be a very easy change to refstack ... | 19:50 |
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| catherineD | #agreed refstack-client will be updated to use tempest head instead of tag release | 19:51 |
| davidlenwell | agreed | 19:51 |
| davidlenwell | this has been the goal all along | 19:51 |
| catherineD | ok moving on .. | 19:52 |
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| davidlenwell | you might remember me ranting about this almost 2 years ago | 19:52 |
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| davidlenwell | Do we have anything else to discuss in this meeting? we are running short on time? | 19:52 |
| catherineD | #topic pending review | 19:53 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "pending review (Meeting topic: refstack)" | 19:53 | |
| catherineD | sslypushenko__: could you review https://review.openstack.org/#/c/168512/ | 19:54 |
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| sslypushenko__ | Sure... | 19:54 |
| catherineD | the only concern I have on this patch is how do we make sure that the capability file is up-to-date ... | 19:55 |
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| catherineD | since the file is now in defcore reppsitory ... | 19:55 |
| davidlenwell | catherineD: and I had a discussion about this offline | 19:55 |
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| davidlenwell | I was thinking that we should have an api method that keeps a cached copy from the repo | 19:56 |
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| davidlenwell | that way our front end is only ever making calls to our api | 19:56 |
| catherineD | davidlenwell: +1 | 19:56 |
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| davidlenwell | sslypushenko__: what do you think? | 19:57 |
| sslypushenko__ | agreed | 19:57 |
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| davidlenwell | okay | 19:57 |
| catherineD | great | 19:57 |
| davidlenwell | done .. and just in time | 19:57 |
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| davidlenwell | lets clear out .. the next group likes to start on time | 19:58 |
| catherineD | I am testing sslypushenko__: 's patch | 19:58 |
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| catherineD | I that is all the time we have today .... | 19:58 |
| catherineD | any other discussion in 2 mins ? | 19:58 |
| catherineD | thank you all ... | 19:59 |
| catherineD | #endmeeting | 19:59 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 19:59 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Mon Apr 6 19:59:19 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 19:59 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/refstack/2015/refstack.2015-04-06-19.00.html | 19:59 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/refstack/2015/refstack.2015-04-06-19.00.txt | 19:59 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/refstack/2015/refstack.2015-04-06-19.00.log.html | 19:59 |
| redrobot | #startmeeting barbican | 20:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Mon Apr 6 20:00:15 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is redrobot. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 20:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 20:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: barbican)" | 20:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'barbican' | 20:00 |
| redrobot | #topic Roll Call | 20:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Roll Call (Meeting topic: barbican)" | 20:00 | |
| jvrbanac | _o/ | 20:01 |
| alee | o/ | 20:01 |
| elmiko | yo/ | 20:01 |
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| chellygel | (´∇ﾉ｀*)ノ | 20:01 |
| redrobot | I guess people are still off for Easter? | 20:01 |
| redrobot | as usual the agenda can be found here: | 20:02 |
| redrobot | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/Barbican | 20:02 |
| redrobot | #topic Action Items | 20:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Action Items (Meeting topic: barbican)" | 20:02 | |
| redrobot | #link http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/barbican/2015/barbican.2015-03-30-19.59.html | 20:02 |
| redrobot | So the only action item was for me | 20:03 |
| redrobot | to release Castellan 0.1.0 | 20:03 |
| redrobot | which I did tag | 20:03 |
| redrobot | #link http://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack/castellan/tag/?id=0.1.0 | 20:03 |
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| redrobot | but for some reason the openstack CI didn't push it out to PyPI | 20:03 |
| woodster_ | o/ | 20:03 |
| redrobot | so I have to figure out what the deal is with that | 20:03 |
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| redrobot | #action redrobot to figure out why Castellan 0.1.0 tag did not get published to PyPI | 20:04 |
| elmiko | awesome news about the release though =) | 20:04 |
| redrobot | elmiko indeed! | 20:04 |
| redrobot | hopefully I'll get that PyPI release working so people can start pip installing it. | 20:04 |
| elmiko | yea, that's gonna be an early Liberty project for me. integrating castellan into sahara. | 20:05 |
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| redrobot | elmiko nice! | 20:05 |
| elmiko | you know you'll have a fan here ;) | 20:05 |
| redrobot | elmiko are you going to Vancouver? | 20:05 |
| elmiko | yes | 20:05 |
| redrobot | elmiko cool! we have a common use cases talk in which I'm going to cover some of Castellan | 20:06 |
| elmiko | awesome, i'll keep an eye out for it | 20:06 |
| redrobot | ok, moving on to today's agenda | 20:06 |
| redrobot | #topic python-barbicanclient behavior with additional keys in the API responses | 20:07 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "python-barbicanclient behavior with additional keys in the API responses (Meeting topic: barbican)" | 20:07 | |
| redrobot | woodster_ did you want to talk about this? | 20:07 |
| woodster_ | sure | 20:07 |
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| woodster_ | So if you take a look at this CR, you'll see where sub-status info was added to the order model | 20:08 |
| woodster_ | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/169481/2/barbicanclient/orders.py,cm | 20:08 |
| woodster_ | My thoughts are that if new optional items are added our APIs, that shouldn't be a contract breaking change to the API | 20:09 |
| woodster_ | So by extension then, this shouldn't break the deployed client for a given API major version | 20:09 |
| redrobot | I think that in a way we are changing the API when we add new attributes to a response | 20:10 |
| woodster_ | I think usability is not so great if we have to update the version of the barbican client if the minor version of the barbican API introduces new optional response items | 20:10 |
| redrobot | if we were doing proper semantic versioning, adding an attribute would prompt for a new minot version | 20:10 |
| redrobot | so technically we now have v1.1, not v1 | 20:10 |
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| redrobot | buuuut | 20:11 |
| woodster_ | I think that's really the heart of the question then | 20:11 |
| redrobot | that's not what we're telling people | 20:11 |
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| redrobot | You do have a good point that it's not a good user experience to have the client break when using a new version of the API | 20:11 |
| woodster_ | We will just have to do synchronized releases...one for API changes, and one for client changes | 20:11 |
| redrobot | especially since the client version in question was the latest available | 20:12 |
| woodster_ | yeah, it is just trickier to do deployments that way | 20:12 |
| redrobot | The easy fix in the client is to allow *args, and **kwargs to deal with unexpected input. | 20:12 |
| jvrbanac | redrobot, speaking of versions, at some point we should revisit your version resource to match other openstack projects | 20:12 |
| jvrbanac | redrobot, a discussion we should probably have for Liberty | 20:13 |
| woodster_ | redrobot, yeah, but that does have the feel of 'cheating' a bit :) | 20:13 |
| redrobot | woodster_ yup. not to mention it does nothing for people who are using the API via other clients (like fog for example) | 20:13 |
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| redrobot | so, I'm not sure there's a right answer, or an action item out of this. | 20:14 |
| redrobot | maybe just be more mindful of the changes of the API and how the affect the client. | 20:14 |
| woodster_ | I think it would mainly give us time to stage our client vs api releases | 20:14 |
| alee | redrobot, sorry - I'm not clear on the context of this -- is the client broken? | 20:15 |
| woodster_ | but we should still be trying to keep our client updated to use for-reals kwargs | 20:15 |
| redrobot | alee yeah, the client was blowing up when instantiating new orders since the API response now includes an additional attribute | 20:15 |
| woodster_ | alee, this regards a broken gate caused during htis CR: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/169481/2/barbicanclient/orders.py,cm | 20:15 |
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| redrobot | alee the new attribute was being passed as an extra arg to __init__, so it blew up with an unknown arg exception | 20:16 |
| alee | redrobot, woodster_ so these are new required params? | 20:16 |
| alee | or optional? | 20:16 |
| woodster_ | alee, they are the new sub-status related ones, so optional | 20:17 |
| redrobot | I guess we could also make the argument that the client should be passing the response to __init__ directly and that it should pull out the things it needs first, and that would also avoid breakages like the one we saw | 20:17 |
| redrobot | s/should/shouldn't/ | 20:17 |
| alee | woodster_, redrobot then yeah -- I'm inclined to agree that adding new optional parameters to the api should not break the client. | 20:17 |
| redrobot | I think we're all in agreement... not sure about the right way to prevent it. | 20:18 |
| woodster_ | so the easy fix as redrobot pointed out is to add **kwargs to the end of the __init__() defs | 20:18 |
| alee | and if so, then we need to fix the client to allow this. While we will try to keep the client/api in sync, they will never always be in sync | 20:18 |
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| redrobot | although talking through it now, it seems that parsing the response first would be better than adding *args and **kwargs | 20:18 |
| redrobot | woodster_ how about parsing the response first... pull out only what you need instead of trying to pass the entire response to the constructors? | 20:19 |
| woodster_ | so do you mean parsing out the values from within the __init__ or external to it? | 20:19 |
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| woodster_ | so for an order, are you saying some logic before calling order(...) would parse out just what is needed? | 20:19 |
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| redrobot | woodster_ yeah... seems to me like it's a better solution than allowing anyting and everything in the constructor | 20:20 |
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| woodster_ | well, I'm thinking that an order model should know what fields are appropriate for it. If you have logic outside of Order do this, then you have coupling to other order-esque logic which could be tricky to manage | 20:21 |
| woodster_ | i.e. the Order model and the order-selector logic outside Order would have to be kept in sync | 20:22 |
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| woodster_ | so in the case of adding sub-status, I'd have to both add sub-status to the Order init, and also change the parsing to code to allow sub-status to go through | 20:23 |
| redrobot | hmmm.... | 20:23 |
| alee | woodster_, redrobot - yeah -- I'm thinking that kwargs are probably the right way to go here. | 20:24 |
| redrobot | I still think the underlying issue is the assumption that the response from the server can be automagically converted into arguments for the constructor | 20:24 |
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| woodster_ | well, you are assuming that the response for an order call can be interpreted as an Order model | 20:24 |
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| alee | redrobot, right - but within the constructor, we should only be selecting the elements we want, right? | 20:24 |
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| redrobot | alee yea... I think we should still spell out the necessary args... | 20:25 |
| woodster_ | I'm thinking the Order model is still the best place to determine if the response data can interpreted as an order | 20:25 |
| redrobot | I don't like that **kwargs will basically be a catch-all fail-safe .... but I do think I'm outnumbered here :) | 20:26 |
| alee | redrobot, the problem then is that you need parser code outside of the initializer to examine the parameters being passed in | 20:26 |
| alee | redrobot, not using kwargs here merely moves the problem | 20:27 |
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| woodster_ | I'm pushing for both the **kwargs addition but also a policy of adding real kwargs for the next release of the client. This CR is a good example of that in action. | 20:27 |
| jvrbanac | personally, I'm not a big fan of the catch-all kwargs idea | 20:27 |
| woodster_ | If I add a sub-status, I should also have unit tests that verify it is set on the model | 20:27 |
| jvrbanac | It feels like we don't have a well defined interface between components | 20:28 |
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| redrobot | jvrbanac well we do, the problem is that stuff breaks when we break the interface (e.g. add a new attribute to a previously defined response) | 20:28 |
| redrobot | another way to look at this is that we want to provide "forwards compatibility" for _some_ api changes | 20:29 |
| woodster_ | this really speaks to the question of if adding optional items to the response breaks the API contract (and associated objects) within a major version. | 20:29 |
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| woodster_ | we could certainly draw a strong line here and say that such changes do break the contract, but I think some users will not like that | 20:31 |
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| alee | redrobot, its not as tight as it could be. For example, when I build the dogtag code (which is in java) - I build both client and server code. Both client and server use the same interface files to define the interface so they are never out of sync. | 20:32 |
| alee | redrobot, its a little more difficult when you have duplicaed classes. | 20:32 |
| redrobot | woodster_ that's true... but I don't like the idea of having to make new major api versions for every tiny change | 20:32 |
| redrobot | alee that's a good point | 20:32 |
| woodster_ | I think that could force us into > v1 API changes sooner rather than later as well | 20:32 |
| woodster_ | redrobot, I agree | 20:32 |
| alee | woodster_, I think we should be able to add optional params within a major version | 20:32 |
| redrobot | alee I think the question is, do we need major/minor versions? ... and I still wouldn't like that either. | 20:33 |
| redrobot | hmm... tricky question for sure. Maybe we should get some input from the API Working Group? | 20:33 |
| woodster_ | I think the reality is that the team managing the api service updates within an organization will be different than the ones building applications that use the client code | 20:33 |
| alee | redrobot, what do you mean -- dp we need major/minor versions? | 20:33 |
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| jvrbanac | +1 on getting input. Also, I have seen a lot of people avoid the kwargy stuff by passing in a dict and explicitly pulling what you need out. | 20:34 |
| woodster_ | For the API, the main version driver is that pesky '/v1/' in there :) | 20:34 |
| alee | redrobot, minor version == api changes that do not break compatibility , major version == changes that break compatibility | 20:34 |
| redrobot | alee so, for a regular library, adding new methods to a class or whatever would prompt a new minor version but keep the major version the same. On the API we only have a major version, so minor changes can't be differentiated from one major release to the next | 20:35 |
| woodster_ | jvrbanac, yeah that would work too certainly | 20:35 |
| alee | redrobot, ah - you are saying we have no minor version .. | 20:35 |
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| alee | jvrbanac, how is that different from kwargs? | 20:36 |
| redrobot | alee yep... but I also don't want to support endpoints with /v1 and /v1.1 and /v1.2 | 20:36 |
| woodster_ | yep, just the version in the URI | 20:36 |
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| alee | redrobot, woodster_ , jvrbanac this must have been solved in othr projects .. lets get input. | 20:37 |
| woodster_ | ...and each one of those endpoint versions need to be bug fixed/patched for a release or two as well I believe | 20:37 |
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| elmiko | have anyone investigate the ideas about putting minor versioning information into the headers? | 20:37 |
| jvrbanac | alee, the idea is that you method contract is consistent and data is passed consistently. however, you have still have an explicit mapping of what you're pulling out that use-case. | 20:37 |
| elmiko | this came up at least once before at the api-wg meetings | 20:37 |
| jvrbanac | again, we should get some input from the api-wg | 20:38 |
| redrobot | #action redrobot to email dev list to get input on minor changes in the API | 20:38 |
| redrobot | jvrbanac +1 | 20:38 |
| redrobot | ok, moving on | 20:38 |
| woodster_ | +1 | 20:38 |
| redrobot | #topic Juno to Kilo DB migration | 20:38 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Juno to Kilo DB migration (Meeting topic: barbican)" | 20:38 | |
| redrobot | so.... with the Kilo final release just around the corner | 20:38 |
| redrobot | it would be good to get confirmation that the migration scripts are able to migrate Barbican Juno schema to Barbican Kilo | 20:39 |
| redrobot | has anyone exercised the migrations starting with a Juno deployment? | 20:39 |
| redrobot | and if not | 20:39 |
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| redrobot | is anyone available/interested in testing the migrations? | 20:39 |
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| elmiko | i could run them on my local install | 20:40 |
| redrobot | elmiko woot! | 20:40 |
| redrobot | #action elmiko to test Juno to Kilo migration | 20:40 |
| elmiko | it's probably not terribly interesting though, i've mainly been experimenting with the sahara integration stuff | 20:40 |
| elmiko | ack, will do =) | 20:41 |
| redrobot | elmiko thanks! Let me know what you find. I don't want to release RC1 unless we know that it will work for people upgrading from the Juno release | 20:41 |
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| redrobot | which may be a grand total of 0 people upgrading heh... | 20:42 |
| woodster_ | other projects have been adding an alembic version module that downgrades to the last version for that release | 20:42 |
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| elmiko | redrobot: ok, i'll try to run em tomorrow | 20:42 |
| woodster_ | easy to do but something we just need to put a CR up for when we are ready | 20:42 |
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| redrobot | woodster_ interesting, I thought alembic would just apply the rollback part of each migration in reverse order? | 20:43 |
| redrobot | ok, moving on | 20:43 |
| woodster_ | redrobot, it does. This is just a way to 'mark' a version file as being the official one for a release | 20:43 |
| redrobot | woodster_ oh I see | 20:43 |
| woodster_ | that way you can keep your version file around | 20:43 |
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| redrobot | #topic Content-Type and payload_content_encoding combinations | 20:45 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Content-Type and payload_content_encoding combinations (Meeting topic: barbican)" | 20:45 | |
| woodster_ | (...run away!!!...) | 20:45 |
| redrobot | So, after seeing alee and Dave McCowan going back and forth about the content type stuff | 20:45 |
| redrobot | I decided to take another look at this stuff | 20:46 |
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| woodster_ | we do have a fine tradition of spending a few hours discussing content-types at each summit | 20:46 |
| redrobot | and there's some funky things going on in the implementation that don't seem right to me | 20:46 |
| redrobot | I think that the Content-Types work changed the meaning of what "base64" means in the payload_content_type for a one-step secret create | 20:47 |
| redrobot | and I don't much care for the new meaning of it | 20:47 |
| redrobot | originally, we added payload_content_type = "base64" as a ways to be able to include binary (non-ascii) data inside a json request | 20:47 |
| redrobot | the meaning was | 20:47 |
| dave-mccowan | o/ | 20:48 |
| redrobot | "The payload provided in this request has been base64 encoded so that it can be included in this JSON request" | 20:48 |
| redrobot | so Barbican would base64 decode _the entire payload_ | 20:48 |
| woodster_ | yeah, just a JSON envelope to the payload really | 20:49 |
| redrobot | but that's no longer true | 20:49 |
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| redrobot | I think that the fact that DER includes some base64 parts should not be confused with the purpose of the payload_content_encoding | 20:50 |
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| redrobot | in other words, the DER can be included in the JSON as is | 20:50 |
| redrobot | so there is no need to base64 encode it | 20:50 |
| redrobot | the fact that the DER implementation uses base64 should be inconsequential to Barbican | 20:51 |
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| woodster_ | esp. for the opaque type! | 20:51 |
| redrobot | so now, when sending a DER, you have to set payload_content_encoding to base64... but instead of decoding _the entire payload_ we're manipulating the payload before decoding it. | 20:52 |
| redrobot | I think that for base64 encoding to work correctly with DER, the user should base64 the entire DER | 20:52 |
| woodster_ | agreed | 20:52 |
| redrobot | or just not support payload_content_type = "base64" for asymmetric keys | 20:53 |
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| woodster_ | kfarr, can you speak for rellerreller on this topic? | 20:53 |
| rellerreller | I'm here now | 20:53 |
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| rellerreller | What was the question? | 20:53 |
| kfarr | woodster_ he just joined! | 20:53 |
| woodster_ | rellerreller, did you get an alert on 'base64' in this channel? | 20:53 |
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| alee | redrobot, we're not going to finish this conversation in 5 minutes. should we do a google hangout right after this? | 20:54 |
| rellerreller | woodster_ No, I happened to get a few minutes, so I thought I would check in. | 20:54 |
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| woodster_ | rellerreller, ha, just kidding, but good timing | 20:54 |
| rellerreller | Can we do Google hangout at some later point? | 20:54 |
| redrobot | alee I agree... | 20:54 |
| woodster_ | wfm | 20:55 |
| redrobot | rellerreller The question is on how payload_content_type = "base64 | 20:55 |
| rellerreller | My daughter is sleeping and usually when I want to do something she starts waking up. | 20:55 |
| redrobot | works with DER payloads | 20:55 |
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| rellerreller | If a payload is DER encoded and base64 encoded then works fine. | 20:56 |
| woodster_ | she will not be ignored! Well, we coudl continue IRC discussion in the barbican channel too | 20:56 |
| alee | rellerreller, the gist is that redrobot does not agree with how we handle content-type = base64. On a separate note, I've been working through bugs on the current implementation for cert stuff. | 20:56 |
| rellerreller | It's the same as with PEM encoding, I believe :) | 20:56 |
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| redrobot | rellerreller hmmm.... Interesting... I'll have to retest some of the stuff I was doing. | 20:57 |
| rellerreller | alee Can you send me links to the bugs? | 20:57 |
| alee | rellerreller, no bugs yet -- I've been working on patches | 20:57 |
| alee | rellerreller, we can discuss in the barbican channel | 20:57 |
| rellerreller | alee Have you posted any? | 20:57 |
| redrobot | running out of time here... we can continue on the barbican channel | 20:57 |
| redrobot | thanks for coming everyone! | 20:57 |
| redrobot | #endmeeting | 20:57 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 20:57 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Mon Apr 6 20:57:58 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 20:58 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/barbican/2015/barbican.2015-04-06-20.00.html | 20:58 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/barbican/2015/barbican.2015-04-06-20.00.txt | 20:58 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/barbican/2015/barbican.2015-04-06-20.00.log.html | 20:58 |
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