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| bswartz | #startmeeting manila | 15:01 |
|---|---|---|
| openstack | Meeting started Thu Oct 31 15:01:06 2013 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is bswartz. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 15:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 15:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: manila)" | 15:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'manila' | 15:01 |
| bswartz | hey guys | 15:01 |
| vponomaryov | hi | 15:01 |
| bswartz | last meeting before HK | 15:01 |
| aostapenko | hi | 15:01 |
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| shamail | Hello | 15:01 |
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| glenng1 | Whaa Hoo | 15:02 |
| bswartz | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/ManilaMeetings | 15:02 |
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| bswartz | so the main thing is the conference | 15:02 |
| bswartz | #topic conference | 15:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "conference (Meeting topic: manila)" | 15:02 | |
| bswartz | for those of you attending the conference, we've settled on 5:30 tuesday for our meetup | 15:03 |
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| bswartz | I still need you to RSVP if you haven't already: bswartz@netapp.com | 15:03 |
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| bswartz | The location is not set yet, but we will find a nice corner of the hotel bar and reserve it for 90 minutes or so | 15:04 |
| shamail | Great, look forward to it. | 15:04 |
| bswartz | I'll get drinks for anyone who's been coming to these meetings | 15:05 |
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| bswartz | additionally, I'll try to fit in an unconference sessions | 15:05 |
| bswartz | session* | 15:05 |
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| bswartz | I still need to go over the schedule and find a timeslot that doesnt' conflict | 15:06 |
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| shamail | bswartz: What will be the method of sending out additional sessions? Email? | 15:06 |
| bswartz | overall I'm excited about hte conference -- many of the summit sessions look interesting | 15:06 |
| bswartz | well for the tuesday get together I'll be sending out the location to people who've RSVPd | 15:07 |
| bswartz | Jeff Oneal will get to HK early and reserve a place | 15:07 |
| bswartz | for the unconference session it will be posed on the whiteboard near the unconference rooms | 15:07 |
| shamail | bswartz: Okay, thanks! | 15:08 |
| bswartz | I'll do that first thing tuesday so if it isn't posted tuesday morning then it means I probably couldn't find a time that works | 15:08 |
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| bswartz | anyone have any other questions about our plans for HK? | 15:09 |
| bswartz | they're very modest this time around -- expect more for the J-release conference | 15:10 |
| bswartz | okay | 15:10 |
| bswartz | #topic dev status | 15:10 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "dev status (Meeting topic: manila)" | 15:10 | |
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| bswartz | so I've learned a few things about linux containers | 15:10 |
| bswartz | (1) they need their own filesystem root, they cannot share the filesystem root with the parent OS | 15:11 |
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| bswartz | (2) LXC is actually a fairly immature linux container implementation -- OpenVZ is another implementation that uses the same kernel feature (containers) and is much more production ready | 15:12 |
| vponomaryov | Actually, NFSkernel server does not work in OpenVZ too | 15:12 |
| bswartz | If we do go down the linux containers path, I think we'll lean towards OpenVZ over LXC -- they're both supported by libvirt btw | 15:12 |
| bswartz | oh that's a third thing | 15:13 |
| caitlin56 | A key test of these containers is whether you can do per tenant DNS and DHCP. | 15:13 |
| bswartz | (3) You can't use the Kernel NFS server with linux containers, because you only get 1 kernel | 15:13 |
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| bswartz | thanks vponomaryov | 15:13 |
| bswartz | caitlin56: I'm fairly certain that won't be an issue, but it's worth confirming | 15:13 |
| bswartz | there is a user-space NFS server that allows us to overcome the 3rd issue | 15:14 |
| bswartz | but the first issue is the one that concerns me most | 15:14 |
| caitlin56 | bswartz: my research says that it is possible, but not the default configuration with most of them. | 15:14 |
| aostapenko | and user nfs server supports only nfs3 | 15:14 |
| gregsfortytwo1 | bswartz: you're looking at Ganeti? | 15:15 |
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| bswartz | if the LVM driver for Manila is going to rely on a specially-crafted root filesystem, then we're going to have to maintain a little "distribution" of sorts including all the binaries needed to run the container | 15:15 |
| caitlin56 | aosstapenko: this is a solution for testing, right? nfs3 is good enough. | 15:15 |
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| bswartz | if we end up having to maintain a distro, it's probably better to go with something off the shelf and fully virtualize it | 15:16 |
| gregsfortytwo1 | err, Ganesha I mean | 15:16 |
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| bswartz | the point of the LVM driver is to provide full functionality in a software-only mode -- to be a reference implementation | 15:17 |
| bswartz | full virtualization is less efficient than containers but it seems that containers don't buy us much other than efficiency | 15:17 |
| bswartz | and with all the limitations, I think people would be happier with full virtualization and access to the kernel NFS server, etc | 15:18 |
| vponomaryov | bswartz: maybe we should do containers support as more flexibility, fot those, who will use Samba, etc ? | 15:18 |
| bswartz | We could, for example, find a really stripped-down version of Debian, add some scripts to it, and use that as our NFS/CIFS server | 15:19 |
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| bswartz | if we write the scripts right, then perhaps we could even leave it up to the admin to find his own distro (for people who prefer redhat, for example) | 15:19 |
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| bswartz | vponomaryov: containers may still be a valid backend, but I think from the manila side we want to limit the complexity | 15:20 |
| bswartz | gregsfortytwo1: sorry I'm not familiar with ganesha | 15:20 |
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| gregsfortytwo1 | oh, you said user-space nfs server, it's the only one of those I'm familiar with | 15:21 |
| bswartz | gregsfortytwo1: is that the same as unfs3? | 15:22 |
| aostapenko | actually it is unfs3 | 15:22 |
| gregsfortytwo1 | don't think so…looks like https://github.com/nfs-ganesha/nfs-ganesha/wiki is the homepage? | 15:22 |
| bswartz | hmm | 15:22 |
| bswartz | I wonder what you get when you apt-get install nfs-user-server | 15:23 |
| aostapenko | nothing | 15:23 |
| vponomaryov | bswartz: nfs-user-server is absent in repos | 15:23 |
| aostapenko | we need to get the source | 15:23 |
| vponomaryov | and it is different from uns3 | 15:23 |
| bswartz | vponomaryov: it existed back in 8.04 | 15:23 |
| bswartz | perhaps it got removed | 15:23 |
| gregsfortytwo1 | yeah, looks like removed from Debian in 2009 | 15:24 |
| gregsfortytwo1 | http://packages.qa.debian.org/n/nfs-user-server.html | 15:24 |
| bswartz | in any case, my feeling is that the nfs-kernel-server is more feature rich and better maintained | 15:24 |
| gregsfortytwo1 | anyway, Ganesha is interesting to me because it has a pluggable interface to its backing filesystem, but I don't know anything else about it | 15:24 |
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| caitlin56 | So the real tradeoff is NFS-kernel under a VM versus userland NFS with containers. Given the goals of the project, I suspect that VMs make more sense. But either would work. | 15:25 |
| bswartz | but more important than that, full virtualization will probably be easier to implement and easier to maintain | 15:26 |
| caitlin56 | agreed VMs simpler than containers, nfs-kernel simpler than user-mode kernel. | 15:27 |
| bswartz | if we write the LVM driver to assume a fully virtualized server (under nova) then all we need to do is define the software that must exist inside the VM, and define the management interface between manila and that | 15:27 |
| bswartz | I'm undecided on whether we should specify a Linux distro or remain agnostic about that | 15:28 |
| vponomaryov | bswartz: I think, it will be customer friendly to have image in glance special for that | 15:29 |
| bswartz | vponomaryov: well customers (end users) probably will never see the VMs directly | 15:30 |
| bswartz | these real customer of manila is the administrator | 15:30 |
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| caitlin56 | bswartz: I think you want to spec a Linux distro with at least these versions of these packages. | 15:30 |
| bswartz | and the administrator may want freedom to use a different image | 15:30 |
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| bswartz | some people have strong feelings -- I can't imagine redhat running an debian-derivative, and I can't imagine canonical running a redhat-derivative | 15:31 |
| bswartz | I don't want to get in the middle of that | 15:31 |
| jcorbin | bswartz: are you suggesting that the reference implementation of the Manila server would be running on a VM provisioned by Nova? | 15:31 |
| bswartz | jcorbin: that seems to be the path of least resistence | 15:32 |
| bswartz | jcorbin: and it always fits very nicely within the design of openstack | 15:32 |
| bswartz | s/always/actually/ | 15:32 |
| jcorbin | bswarz: I like that because then the network will be provisioned for you. Agree with path of least resistence | 15:32 |
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| bswartz | okay so that's a nice segue into talking about the network stuff again | 15:33 |
| bswartz | yportnova: you here? | 15:33 |
| vponomaryov | no, she is absent | 15:33 |
| bswartz | vponomaryov: do you have an update | 15:33 |
| bswartz | how is the prototype for the neutron API calling code | 15:34 |
| vponomaryov | Actually, we had an update with containers, which are already discussed, and one another thing is that | 15:34 |
| vponomaryov | network code for quantum is blocked by driver with/out containers or full virtualisation | 15:34 |
| vponomaryov | *of | 15:35 |
| bswartz | vponomaryov: I'd like to model the network configuration code around what's most likely to work with real hardware backends | 15:35 |
| bswartz | because those are going to be less flexible than the software backend | 15:35 |
| bswartz | We need to prove that the design works for both software and multiple hardware backends to have confidence, of course | 15:36 |
| caitlin56 | I'm trying to gather a set of requirements from our field engineers about what real customers need to do for "network" configuration to support NFS and CIFS. | 15:36 |
| caitlin56 | I'll post once I have gathered, but I am concerned that the neutron dhcp-agent does not look to be adequate for this use. It only assigns IP addresses. | 15:37 |
| caitlin56 | and gateway. | 15:37 |
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| bswartz | caitlin56: netapp devices don't use DHCP at all -- it's all static configuration | 15:37 |
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| shamail | same. | 15:37 |
| bswartz | manila will need to have the capability to statically configure backends | 15:37 |
| caitlin56 | But what about your clients? | 15:37 |
| bswartz | the client is the one giving us the information | 15:38 |
| bswartz | the client supplies the DNS server IP, the AD domain name, the AD credentials, etc | 15:38 |
| caitlin56 | You don't have clients that are getting the AD or LDAP server from the DHCP server? | 15:38 |
| bswartz | in most cases OpenStack won't even have that information | 15:38 |
| bswartz | typically clients get teh DNS server from DHCP and find everything else through DNS | 15:39 |
| caitlin56 | That might be good enough. | 15:39 |
| bswartz | if there are backends that can't work without DHCP then we'll need to look into how to support those | 15:40 |
| bswartz | but right now I'm under the impression that DHCP not a critical piece of intrastructure, outside of assigning IPs/netmasks/gateway/DNS | 15:40 |
| shamail | This part of the networking discussion is discussing services, we assume base connectivity to the tenant's network is established? Sorry, missed last week. | 15:41 |
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| bswartz | shamail: yes | 15:41 |
| bswartz | we're prototyping the code that manila will use to call neutron and wire in a storage controller directly to a tenant VLAN | 15:41 |
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| bswartz | vponomaryov: it may make sense to base the prototype on a netapp backend rather than the LVM backend, so the 2 projects can proceed in parallel | 15:42 |
| caitlin56 | Telling tenants that a) they need a static IP for their openstack launched clients and b) that they find other services on their tenant network via DNS is probably acceptable. | 15:43 |
| bswartz | caitlin56: My intent is that neutron will still own the IP assigning, but the backend will be statically configured | 15:44 |
| bswartz | the clients shouldn't need to do anything different | 15:44 |
| jcorbin | bswartz: With the reference port, with LVM and no HW storage controller,I would think that the VM is already wired into the tenant network when it is created. You just specify the networks you want to configure the Manila VM to. Is that correct? | 15:45 |
| bswartz | unless perhaps they're running an AD server inside the cloud -- that would need a static IP beacuse AD servers changing IPs seems like bad news | 15:45 |
| caitlin56 | As I understand neutron, you can't just fire off a VM that has no IP address before the tenant DHCP gives it to them. | 15:45 |
| bswartz | jcorbin: yeah | 15:46 |
| caitlin56 | THe VM might not *know* its IP address until it asks for it via DHCP, but it was determined before the VM launched. | 15:46 |
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| bswartz | okay I'm getting confused here | 15:47 |
| bswartz | we have 2 topics going on I think | 15:47 |
| bswartz | the LVM backend and the network config | 15:47 |
| shamail | sorry, disconnected. | 15:48 |
| jcorbin | caitlin56: I see the problem. I will see if there is a way to statically allocate a VM to a tenant network. | 15:48 |
| caitlin56 | Difference is very technical. DHCP has rules on how quickly an IP address can be reassigned. Neutron does not. | 15:48 |
| bswartz | for the purposes of network config, let's assume a hardware based backend with static configuraiton | 15:48 |
| caitlin56 | It's a minor distinction that no customer should object to, but one that they should be warned about. | 15:48 |
| shamail | bswartz: that will probably provide the most flexibility in accommodating numerous options. | 15:49 |
| bswartz | is neutron not able to give permanent leases out? | 15:49 |
| bswartz | if it isn't then I can see how that presents a problem | 15:49 |
| caitlin56 | Neutron leases can be changed by admin at any time. Not exactlythe same rules as for DHCP dynamic leases. | 15:50 |
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| caitlin56 | But the admin can choose to follow those rules. | 15:50 |
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| jcorbin | bswartz: I can look into that. I would think that the Ironic project would want static IPs for dedicated instances. | 15:51 |
| bswartz | vponomaryov: have you looked at obtaining an IP address from neutron on a permanent basis? | 15:51 |
| bswartz | jcorbin: thanks, I agree | 15:51 |
| vponomaryov | bswartz: I haven't info about this | 15:51 |
| bswartz | okay | 15:51 |
| bswartz | some more stuff to look into | 15:52 |
| bswartz | so I will be busy next week, as will many of you I imagine | 15:52 |
| caitlin56 | It's more an issue for anyone who was *relying* on dynamic addresses. But those are pretty rare. | 15:52 |
| bswartz | we'll cancel next week's meeting right now | 15:52 |
| bswartz | and plan to meet again on 14 Nov | 15:52 |
| bswartz | #topic open discussion | 15:53 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: manila)" | 15:53 | |
| caitlin56 | The 14 Nov meeting, what time will that be for those of us on the west coast? | 15:53 |
| bswartz | anything else to talk about before we head off to HK? | 15:53 |
| vponomaryov | bswartz: we have several slides for, we will send it in email | 15:54 |
| iccha | hey the qonos nodes in prod have 75 workers, would be great if we could merge these prs to reflect state in prdocution: | 15:54 |
| iccha | https://github.rackspace.com/O3Eng/region-ord/pull/102 | 15:54 |
| bswartz | caitlin56: thanks for the reminder | 15:54 |
| iccha | https://github.rackspace.com/O3Eng/region-ord/pull/68 | 15:54 |
| bswartz | so because DST ends for those of us who are US-based, this meeting remains at 1500 UTC | 15:55 |
| iccha | https://github.rackspace.com/O3Eng/region-dfw/pull/77 | 15:55 |
| iccha | https://github.rackspace.com/O3Eng/region-dfw/pull/48 | 15:55 |
| bswartz | that means it will be 1 hour earlier on your calendar if you're US-based, until DST kicks in again on 2014 March 10 | 15:55 |
| iccha | sorry wrong window | 15:55 |
| caitlin56 | bswart: not a problem for me. But most west coast based engineers are more likely to *still* be up at 7:00 AM than to have woken up. | 15:56 |
| caitlin56 | You might want to see if you can get a better time slot. | 15:56 |
| bswartz | caitlin56: I knew about this issue when I scheduled the meeting -- it's an unavoidable problem when trying to schedule these worldwide meetings | 15:57 |
| bswartz | I would have chosen a later timeslot but they're all taken | 15:57 |
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| caitlin56 | ok, might not be a problem. Everyone willing to do irc at 8:00 AM might be able to do 7:00. | 15:58 |
| bswartz | unfortunately our west coast friends will need to wake up early for a couple of months | 15:58 |
| bswartz | vponomaryov: I saw the set of slides you sent out this morning | 15:58 |
| bswartz | vponomaryov: if you have more I'd love to see them | 15:59 |
| bswartz | I don't have anything else for today | 15:59 |
| bswartz | and somehow we used the whole hour | 15:59 |
| vponomaryov | bswartz: ok | 15:59 |
| bswartz | thanks everyone | 15:59 |
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| bswartz | see you in 2 weeks if I don't see you in HK | 15:59 |
| aostapenko | thank you, bye | 15:59 |
| shamail | Thanks. Take care everyone. | 15:59 |
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| bswartz | remembe to RSVP to bswartz@netapp.com if you're coming to our meeting 5:30PM on tuesday | 16:00 |
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| vponomaryov | bye | 16:00 |
| bswartz | #endmeeting | 16:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meetings (alternate)" | 16:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Thu Oct 31 16:00:12 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 16:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/manila/2013/manila.2013-10-31-15.01.html | 16:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/manila/2013/manila.2013-10-31-15.01.txt | 16:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/manila/2013/manila.2013-10-31-15.01.log.html | 16:00 |
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| SergeyLukjanov | savanna team meeting will be here in 10 mins | 17:55 |
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| SergeyLukjanov | savanna folks, are you around? | 18:05 |
| ruhe | i'm around | 18:05 |
| aignatov | o/ | 18:05 |
| alazarev | o/ | 18:06 |
| mattf | o/ | 18:06 |
| jspeidel | o/ | 18:06 |
| SergeyLukjanov | ok, let's start the meeting | 18:07 |
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| SergeyLukjanov | #startmeeting savanna | 18:07 |
| openstack | Meeting started Thu Oct 31 18:07:38 2013 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is SergeyLukjanov. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 18:07 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 18:07 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: savanna)" | 18:07 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'savanna' | 18:07 |
| SergeyLukjanov | #topic Agenda | 18:07 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Agenda (Meeting topic: savanna)" | 18:07 | |
| SergeyLukjanov | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/SavannaAgenda#Agenda_for_October.2C_31 | 18:08 |
| SergeyLukjanov | #topic Action items from the last meeting | 18:08 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Action items from the last meeting (Meeting topic: savanna)" | 18:08 | |
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| SergeyLukjanov | hm | 18:09 |
| SergeyLukjanov | let's discuss here design summit proposals that wasn't accepted | 18:10 |
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| SergeyLukjanov | any updates? | 18:10 |
| aignatov | I've just sent the letter about retrospective results | 18:11 |
| aignatov | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Savanna/Release_0.3_Retrospective | 18:11 |
| crobertsrh | I've started a pad for post 0.3 dashboard enhancements. | 18:11 |
| crobertsrh | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/EDP_dashboard_post_0.3 | 18:11 |
| aignatov | if someone wants to add more thoughts please edit this page about retro | 18:11 |
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| SergeyLukjanov | Trevor's requirements doc is on review | 18:13 |
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| mattf | SergeyLukjanov, update from me re drafting actions, still tbd. i should have some initial goals out to collaborators today. | 18:13 |
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| SergeyLukjanov | mattf, ok, great | 18:13 |
| SergeyLukjanov | ok, let's move on | 18:14 |
| SergeyLukjanov | #topic Design summit update | 18:15 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Design summit update (Meeting topic: savanna)" | 18:15 | |
| SergeyLukjanov | #link http://icehousedesignsummit.sched.org/overview/type/savanna | 18:15 |
| SergeyLukjanov | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Summit/Icehouse/Etherpads#Savanna | 18:15 |
| SergeyLukjanov | any questions about the design summit? | 18:16 |
| SergeyLukjanov | ok | 18:16 |
| SergeyLukjanov | #topic News / updates | 18:17 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "News / updates (Meeting topic: savanna)" | 18:17 | |
| SergeyLukjanov | folks, please | 18:17 |
| SergeyLukjanov | update from me - we start working on moving integration tests to CI | 18:17 |
| SergeyLukjanov | I mean jenkins.o.o | 18:18 |
| mattf | savanna got a lot of play during strata & hadoop world this week. i did an unconference session and discussed it quite a bit. there's a good amount of interest. there was also the rax + hwx preso and plans. | 18:18 |
| ruhe | i'd like to hear more about rax + hwx | 18:18 |
| ruhe | in regards to savanna | 18:18 |
| SergeyLukjanov | mattf, interesting, could you, please, share some minutes and slides from strata for savanna-related stuff? | 18:18 |
| mattf | me too actually. it was in the last slot yesterday. i had to leave 5 min into it. i just got to talk to rnirmal et al before it. | 18:19 |
| mattf | i'm going to find the video and see if there were questions as they went through the presentation. | 18:19 |
| mattf | SergeyLukjanov, i'll pull some notes together after summit and share points of interest | 18:20 |
| SergeyLukjanov | mattf, thank you | 18:20 |
| SergeyLukjanov | #info Reminder: The Nov 7 meeting is canceled. We’ll resume meetings on Nov 14. | 18:21 |
| SergeyLukjanov | anything else? | 18:21 |
| mattf | what are the next steps for the retrospective? | 18:22 |
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| aignatov | hmm, good question, page is done, need to think how to turn ideas for improvements into the real life :) | 18:23 |
| mattf | definitely | 18:23 |
| aignatov | most thoughts were about review process | 18:23 |
| SergeyLukjanov | yep :) | 18:23 |
| jspeidel | question - the patch that provides oozie support in hdp plugin was just merged. For EDP, how does savanna controller know where oozie is running to execute jobs? | 18:23 |
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| SergeyLukjanov | I think that we can discuss retrospective at the next team meeting | 18:24 |
| mattf | aignatov, the way we've run them, folks rank the items, we pick 1 or 2 and create a plan to address for the next release | 18:24 |
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| aignatov | jspeidel, edp controller knows about running uzi by looking at cluster info | 18:25 |
| aignatov | afaik your pathc includes ooze url to cluster info | 18:26 |
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| jspeidel | aignatov, are you looking for specific node process names? | 18:26 |
| jspeidel | in cluster info? | 18:26 |
| aignatov | mattf, good idea | 18:26 |
| aignatov | jspiedel, yes, we are looking for http://host:11000/oozie in cluster info | 18:27 |
| aignatov | after that edp goes to ooze through rest | 18:27 |
| jspeidel | ok | 18:28 |
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| SergeyLukjanov | I think that there are no updates in "Roadmap cleanup / update" | 18:28 |
| SergeyLukjanov | and we're already in "General discussion" | 18:28 |
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| SergeyLukjanov | #topic General discussion | 18:29 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "General discussion (Meeting topic: savanna)" | 18:29 | |
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| Guest70023 | jspeidel, client = o.OozieClient(cluster['info']['JobFlow']['Oozie'] + "/oozie") | 18:30 |
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| aignatov | mattf, you wanna run the votes to rank the items in retro? | 18:30 |
| nprivalova | guest is me :) | 18:30 |
| aignatov | nprivalova, thx, I meant the same exactly :) | 18:31 |
| ruhe | aignatov, i don't think we need votes | 18:31 |
| mattf | aignatov, i'd rather not. i'm short on time atm. | 18:31 |
| ruhe | all the items are important | 18:31 |
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| mattf | aignatov, you could just try to pull out 3-4 themes, send them out a day or two before the next meeting, then we discuss which we should do at the next meeting | 18:32 |
| SergeyLukjanov | ruhe, agreed | 18:32 |
| mattf | i see 3 themes right off -- reviews, collaboration and process/housekeeping | 18:32 |
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| SergeyLukjanov | in fact there are 3-4 major themes at all | 18:32 |
| aignatov | mattf, agreed, will do | 18:32 |
| aignatov | SergeyLukjanov, please add AI on me | 18:33 |
| SergeyLukjanov | #action aignatov to start retrospective discussion | 18:34 |
| mattf | it also looks like few people responded to the poll | 18:34 |
| aignatov | btw, only 5 contributors are answered , I waited for more answers;) | 18:34 |
| ruhe | i'd let PTL to decide and convert retrospective results into action items | 18:34 |
| aignatov | rune, we need just to start discussions about items in retro | 18:35 |
| aignatov | rune -> ruhe, sorry | 18:35 |
| mattf | i wish i had thought of it myself - the comment on 100x line commits is really insightful | 18:35 |
| mattf | there was a thread on os-dev about patch set sizes recently too | 18:35 |
| mattf | proper review of some of the reviews we have in process are a good day+ of work | 18:36 |
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| SergeyLukjanov | yeah, big CRs are very painful to review | 18:36 |
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| mattf | i'm about to launch the discussion on that one, but i'll hold off til our next meeting | 18:37 |
| * mattf zips lips | 18:37 | |
| SergeyLukjanov | in addition we can discuss it at summit | 18:37 |
| * mattf nods | 18:37 | |
| jspeidel | agreed | 18:37 |
| alazarev | usually it is possible to split big commit into several smaller. May be we need some guidance? | 18:38 |
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| mattf | +10 | 18:38 |
| SergeyLukjanov | I think that there could not be the common guidance for splitting code | 18:38 |
| mattf | that guidance can come from well defined purpose of change etc | 18:38 |
| * mattf rezips | 18:38 | |
| ruhe | hmm | 18:39 |
| ruhe | that should be already covered somewhere on openstack wiki | 18:39 |
| aignatov | the main problem of big patches I saw sometime on the review, that the certain patch contains not only certain fix but some unrelated code impovements | 18:40 |
| SergeyLukjanov | yeah, there are some recommendations to not create large CRs | 18:40 |
| mattf | there's also an issue w/ the number of iterations on reviews. not that 1 is a desirable number, but >12 raises a flag for me | 18:41 |
| mattf | especially when only 4 people are reviewing | 18:42 |
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| mattf | but...we should discuss later | 18:42 |
| alazarev | with the official doc, reviewers could request to split big commit into smallers | 18:42 |
| SergeyLukjanov | at most it relates to CR size | 18:42 |
| jspeidel | yes, will be good do discuss in person | 18:42 |
| nprivalova | btw, recently in mail I saw the statement 'if you send cr you should review someone's code' | 18:43 |
| mattf | ^^ is something we should facilitate imho | 18:43 |
| SergeyLukjanov | agreed | 18:43 |
| mattf | it's something a strong community supports | 18:43 |
| SergeyLukjanov | btw http://russellbryant.net/openstack-stats/savanna-reviewers-30.txt looks not very good | 18:44 |
| ruhe | for alazarev it looks very good :) | 18:44 |
| mattf | we should kick off this discussion next week | 18:44 |
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| aignatov | after next week, mattf | 18:45 |
| SergeyLukjanov | and next week (on summit) too | 18:45 |
| mattf | time is compressed for me atm | 18:45 |
| alazarev | review is a good way to get inside the project :) | 18:45 |
| aignatov | alazarev, +2 | 18:45 |
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| SergeyLukjanov | are there anything more to discuss? | 18:47 |
| mattf | nothing from me | 18:47 |
| ruhe | jspeidel, could you shed some light on hwx + rax? is it savanna spinning up HDP clusters? | 18:48 |
| jspeidel | ruhe, I really don't have any info at the moment. I will try to have some answers for next week | 18:49 |
| ruhe | ok, thanks | 18:49 |
| jspeidel | yep | 18:49 |
| SergeyLukjanov | looks like that's all for today | 18:50 |
| SergeyLukjanov | thank you all | 18:50 |
| SergeyLukjanov | #info JFYI you can always use openstack-dev@lists.openstack.org mailing lists and #savanna irc channel to find us and ask your questions | 18:50 |
| SergeyLukjanov | #endmeeting | 18:50 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meetings (alternate)" | 18:50 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Thu Oct 31 18:50:42 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 18:50 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/savanna/2013/savanna.2013-10-31-18.07.html | 18:50 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/savanna/2013/savanna.2013-10-31-18.07.txt | 18:50 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/savanna/2013/savanna.2013-10-31-18.07.log.html | 18:50 |
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| markwash | glance o'clock methinks | 20:01 |
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| esheffield | o/ | 20:02 |
| markwash | o/ | 20:02 |
| markwash | #startmeeting glance | 20:02 |
| openstack | Meeting started Thu Oct 31 20:02:40 2013 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is markwash. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 20:02 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 20:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: glance)" | 20:02 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'glance' | 20:02 |
| esheffield | we have little monsters wandering through the office pilfering sweets :-) | 20:02 |
| Guest13638 | o/ | 20:02 |
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| markwash | hehe | 20:03 |
| markwash | special "halloween" episode of the glance meeting | 20:03 |
| nikhil___ | markwash: did you get a chance to look at eddie's pic | 20:03 |
| markwash | and here I haven't gorged myself on candy yet | 20:03 |
| nikhil___ | markwash: haha yeah :) | 20:03 |
| markwash | nikhil___: no I think I must have missed that | 20:04 |
| nikhil___ | here it comes | 20:04 |
| nikhil___ | https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B9Ycgkgf21YCcHJDR0c2MDhPZTQ/edit?usp=sharing | 20:04 |
| zhiyan | hi | 20:04 |
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| markwash | agenda here: https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/glance-team-meeting-agenda | 20:05 |
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| markwash | only real items on there are: 1) glanceclient cross-version api and 2) worker checkin | 20:05 |
| markwash | let's talk about glanceclient first | 20:06 |
| markwash | #topic glanceclient v1/v2 cross version api | 20:06 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "glanceclient v1/v2 cross version api (Meeting topic: glance)" | 20:06 | |
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| markwash | background in the following thread | 20:06 |
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| markwash | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2013-October/016875.html | 20:06 |
| esheffield | oh boy | 20:06 |
| esheffield | :-) | 20:06 |
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| markwash | some more background here as well | 20:07 |
| markwash | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/33327/ | 20:07 |
| markwash | an old patch we discussed before | 20:07 |
| markwash | I think the key question in my mind is, does it really make sense to publish client libs that 100% follow the versioning scheme of the server library? | 20:08 |
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| esheffield | yeah, I've wrestled with this a bit in my mind as well | 20:09 |
| markwash | or should library api versioning be independent? | 20:09 |
| esheffield | on the one hand, I like the idea of having the api version differences hidden behind a unified interface | 20:09 |
| esheffield | but what do you do with functional differences? | 20:10 |
| markwash | yeah | 20:10 |
| esheffield | I have not reached a satisfactory conclusion in my thinking :-( | 20:11 |
| markwash | I think that might help define the times when you want to make a major version change in the client library as well | 20:11 |
| markwash | so in that scheme, we could have done things this way | 20:12 |
| markwash | had v1 of the glancelient keep pretty close functionality with the v1 api | 20:12 |
| markwash | but it could be portable to the v2 api to a certain extent, if that's feasible? | 20:12 |
| markwash | and then when there was v2 functionality that we could not possibly make work with the client v1 interface, we'd have to publish a v2 client as a separate major version of python-glanceclient | 20:13 |
| markwash | one thing I'm not sure about is how easy / acceptable it is for us to simultaneously maintain the 1.x "Head" and the 2.x "Head" of the client library | 20:13 |
| esheffield | yeah, that could get messy | 20:14 |
| markwash | that might be a good question to punt up to the list | 20:15 |
| esheffield | tho it might be the "least bad" thing | 20:15 |
| markwash | it might be a problem for packagers as well | 20:15 |
| esheffield | I would hope that very soon the v1 client could be frozen with no more updates | 20:15 |
| esheffield | so might be less of an issue, at least until we hit the flux of a v2 / v3 transition | 20:16 |
| markwash | heh | 20:16 |
| markwash | how could we freeze it? just not accept more updates to the code in that directory in the client repo? | 20:17 |
| esheffield | I guess what I'm thinking is at some point we have a released 1.x client and there are no more updates to that release after some point | 20:19 |
| markwash | gotcha, I think that makes sense | 20:19 |
| esheffield | less about freezing the code and more of "you want to use glance v1, you have to use glanceclient v1.x" | 20:19 |
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| markwash | I kinda like the idea of glanceclient v2 being able to work with v1 as well, in some forms. . not sure if such an api is possible | 20:20 |
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| markwash | esheffield: do you think there are any strategic moves we could take soon to help improve this situation? | 20:21 |
| esheffield | possibly something like ghe's patch from earlier | 20:22 |
| markwash | and are there any other folks who feel like they have spare bandwidth to work on this v1 v2 compatibility for nova? | 20:22 |
| esheffield | an interface that supports the most common functionality between the two at first | 20:23 |
| markwash | how close is Ghe's patch to that? | 20:23 |
| twoputt | I would be interested to know how to deal with the "location" with the v1 api? | 20:23 |
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| esheffield | well, ghe's patch was mostly the imageservice pulled from nova | 20:24 |
| esheffield | so it was still just v1, but basically represented that common functionality | 20:24 |
| esheffield | the patch I have up for nova essentially allows switching v1 / v2 behind that interface | 20:25 |
| twoputt | and not have both of them, that's correct? | 20:25 |
| nikhil___ | what is the location issue? | 20:26 |
| nikhil___ | sorry, I'm not super familiar with this | 20:26 |
| twoputt | my understanding is that you can get the location(s) of the image with the v2 api | 20:27 |
| zhiyan | twoputt: glance only show direct url/location to client in v2 api, if admin enable it. | 20:27 |
| markwash | hmm, but its definitely something we'd like nova to use | 20:27 |
| markwash | on the consumer side its easy, nova can use the location IF its present | 20:28 |
| zhiyan | twoputt: yes, v1 always not expose location to client. | 20:28 |
| markwash | on the producer side (nova uploading an image directly to a store, and then passing the location off to glance) there might be some compatibility as well | 20:28 |
| markwash | so maybe that just works | 20:29 |
| twoputt | so for example, in the future the vmware driver in nova will need to get this location. consequently, nova should be able to talk v1/v2 at the same time | 20:29 |
| markwash | of course, v1 won't show multiple locations | 20:29 |
| zhiyan | v1 won't show any locations | 20:30 |
| markwash | zhiyan: right, sorry | 20:30 |
| twoputt | ok | 20:30 |
| markwash | I meant to say, v1 can accept a *single* location as a register action | 20:30 |
| markwash | but does not have semantics for adding a location | 20:30 |
| markwash | so if we wanted to nova to do cool stuff like upload to multiple stores on snapshot, for example to save to cinder and swift, the common client could not support that | 20:31 |
| esheffield | sounds that way to me | 20:32 |
| markwash | well, I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around this now :-( | 20:33 |
| markwash | maybe we should revisit the issue later? | 20:33 |
| esheffield | heh, welcome to my world of the last couple months! :-) | 20:34 |
| nikhil___ | say 5 for tasks and we'r game :) | 20:34 |
| markwash | #topic tasks | 20:35 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "tasks (Meeting topic: glance)" | 20:35 | |
| zhiyan | markwash: so from Ghe's patch, you prefer we move the nova/cinder 's consuming code to glanceclient? but i'm confulsed is that for nova/cinder it still need choice using v1/image_service.py or v2/image_service.py , since they are just different essentially ... | 20:35 |
| markwash | whoops, switched too soon! | 20:35 |
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| zhiyan | markwash: :) | 20:36 |
| markwash | zhiyan: I think that's a reasonable confusion | 20:36 |
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| zhiyan | markwash: i'm ok, we can talk this later. | 20:36 |
| esheffield | zhiyan: right now the glance functionality that nova needs is common to v1 and v2, so a single image service could work with swappable "drivers" for v1 / v2 behind it | 20:36 |
| markwash | one sec, I think your comment is a bit of clarity for me | 20:36 |
| esheffield | but if nova starts to require say multiple locations, that's a v2 only thing so that becomes more problematic | 20:37 |
| twoputt | yes | 20:37 |
| twoputt | and I think this might come soon | 20:37 |
| zhiyan | esheffield: but IMO only some special function, like locations, can help nova do sush cool things... | 20:38 |
| markwash | if that's the case, then we just need to figure out how to get everyone useing v2 | 20:38 |
| zhiyan | markwash: so the migration cost is high, 1->2, 2->3.. | 20:38 |
| markwash | so, if we could make a client API that makes the helpful parts of v2 discoverable | 20:39 |
| zhiyan | seems the cost probably can not be saved. | 20:39 |
| markwash | like, say if the library tells you something useful like "can we add locations?" | 20:40 |
| markwash | then its possible nova could be using this client API with both v1 and v2 glance | 20:40 |
| esheffield | duck typing ftw! | 20:40 |
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| markwash | and only try to do these new features if the library says they're available | 20:41 |
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| esheffield | that does mean client users have to be ready with a fallback | 20:41 |
| esheffield | if an expected feature isn't there | 20:41 |
| markwash | esheffield: yeah, true. . there may be graceful fallbacks though. . I'm not sure | 20:42 |
| zhiyan | i'm thinking how it work if glance server disable one api version | 20:42 |
| zhiyan | if so, we need have a function list, allow consumer do the function-availibitly query | 20:42 |
| * markwash falls back into a bit of confusion | 20:43 | |
| zhiyan | next topic? time is short, and nikhil___ i waiting :) | 20:43 |
| markwash | I guess let's keep stewing on this and see if we have any clearer ideas in the future | 20:44 |
| markwash | #topic tasks for real | 20:44 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "tasks for real (Meeting topic: glance)" | 20:44 | |
| markwash | tasks! | 20:44 |
| nikhil___ | yay! | 20:44 |
| markwash | what's the latest update? | 20:44 |
| nikhil___ | thanks all for all the prompt reviews when we needed it most :) | 20:44 |
| nikhil___ | really really appreciate it!! | 20:44 |
| nikhil___ | markwash: I updated the latest executor interface patch up | 20:45 |
| nikhil___ | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/44355/ | 20:45 |
| nikhil___ | and this completes the chain for all that has been discussed and is waiting for reviews | 20:45 |
| nikhil___ | wanted to ask if we had (at least some level) of agreement of the executor interface supported atm ? | 20:46 |
| markwash | nikhil___: is it basically just the "run(task_details)" that I see? | 20:47 |
| nikhil___ | markwash: general outline of the factory/pattern proposed atm | 20:48 |
| nikhil___ | yeah and now I see that it mostly relates to run task part | 20:48 |
| zhiyan | nikhil___: not sure you noticed, i have put some comments in https://review.openstack.org/#/c/46117/ | 20:49 |
| nikhil___ | would folks be available to review during the summit ? :) | 20:49 |
| zhiyan | i think they are applicable for #44355 | 20:49 |
| markwash | nikhil___: I see a little difference there in the executor factory | 20:49 |
| markwash | the way it is used makes a lot of sense | 20:49 |
| markwash | but the way its defined, it looks like you pass in the task itself | 20:50 |
| * markwash might be wrong | 20:50 | |
| zhiyan | nikhil___: i think/like do it in my night (really night, this time) | 20:50 |
| markwash | I'll definitely be able to review today and during the summit somewhat | 20:51 |
| nikhil___ | markwash: def run(self, task_id, task_status, task_type, task_input): has this signature proposed | 20:51 |
| nikhil___ | this would be kind of a contract, I'm guessing | 20:51 |
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| markwash | okay cool, i'll focus on that in my review in the next few hours | 20:52 |
| nikhil___ | between the scripts and glance code supporting them | 20:52 |
| nikhil___ | thanks markwash zhiyan | 20:52 |
| markwash | does that cover tasks for now? | 20:52 |
| nikhil___ | zhiyan: did not quite get your earlier comment though | 20:52 |
| zhiyan | np nikhil | 20:52 |
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| nikhil___ | markwash: yeah, mostly. I wanted to see how the position was of community | 20:53 |
| nikhil___ | on this MP | 20:53 |
| markwash | okay cool | 20:53 |
| markwash | I think generally positive | 20:53 |
| markwash | from me at least | 20:53 |
| nikhil___ | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/54198/6 | 20:53 |
| markwash | last few minutes for open discussion? | 20:53 |
| nikhil___ | that has some comments and will address that | 20:53 |
| nikhil___ | some discussion was around the status transition checks and wanted to ensure everyone was on the same page about how status is being viewed in general | 20:54 |
| zhiyan | nikhil___: thanks | 20:54 |
| nikhil___ | seems to be like status and state of tasks is kinda intermingled so that's that | 20:54 |
| nikhil___ | that was the last bit, promise. markwash :) | 20:54 |
| markwash | no worries | 20:55 |
| markwash | #topic open discussion | 20:55 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: glance)" | 20:55 | |
| twoputt | is it the good time to ask for reviews? :) that's my first glance meeting *halloween* | 20:56 |
| markwash | as I suspected :-) | 20:56 |
| zhiyan | quick asking, can someone tell me what "atm" mean? thanks | 20:56 |
| markwash | twoputt: sure, any time is good for review requests! | 20:56 |
| markwash | zhiyan: "at the moment" I believe | 20:56 |
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| zhiyan | aha, got it | 20:57 |
| twoputt | I have this small patch https://review.openstack.org/#/c/52998/ -- any feedback would be nice ;) | 20:57 |
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| markwash | cool | 20:59 |
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| markwash | all right, thanks folks, happy halloween! | 21:00 |
| markwash | #endmeeting | 21:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Action items from the last meeting (Meeting topic: savanna)" | 21:00 | |
| nikhil___ | you too | 21:00 |
| openstack | Meeting ended Thu Oct 31 21:00:09 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 21:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/glance/2013/glance.2013-10-31-20.02.html | 21:00 |
| nikhil___ | :) | 21:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/glance/2013/glance.2013-10-31-20.02.txt | 21:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/glance/2013/glance.2013-10-31-20.02.log.html | 21:00 |
| twoputt | nikhil___: once you merge https://review.openstack.org/#/c/46117/ and https://review.openstack.org/#/c/44355/, is there still a lot of this to do before we can use the tasks? | 21:00 |
| zhiyan | thank you guys | 21:00 |
| nikhil___ | twoputt: let's switch to glance channel | 21:00 |
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